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Q.- Witness, if a soldier at the front is exposed to an epidemic and can be almost certain that he will catch typhus and deserts and hides behind the protecting walls of a prison, would you not consider it justifiable if he is persuaded to volunteer for an experiment that concerns itself with typhus? A.- Will you read ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,655,000 | 2,655,500 |
loss of faith of the public in the medical profession, and hence destroy the capacity of the medical profession to do its good for society. The reason that we must be very careful in the use of human beings as subjects in medical experiments is not to debase and jeopardize this method for doing great good by causing th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,655,450 | 2,655,950 |
would they know whether the doctor had a drug that would or would not relieve? The doctor would not know himself, because he would have to experiment first. Q.- Witness, I put a hypothetical case to you. If we are to turn to reality other questions would arise. I simply want to hear now your general attitude to this pr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,655,900 | 2,656,400 |
will have cross-examination of the witness which the doctor estimated at an hour, is that correct? DR. STEINBAUER:An hour to an hour and a half. It depends upon the answers. THE PRESIDENT:It appear that this counsel -- DR.FRITZ (For Defendant Rose): Mr. President, I too wish to put questions to the expert witness. Roug... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,656,350 | 2,656,850 |
absent due to illness. THE PRESIDENT:Has there been a medical certificate filed? THE MARSHAL:For the defendant the proper medical certificate signed by the prison surgeon will be filed later. THE PRESIDENT:The Secretary General will note for the record the presence of all the defendants in court save the defendant Ober... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,656,800 | 2,657,300 |
is confined. There is another group that is willing to do various things. Some of them are willing to give service in the Medical Corps of the army. Some of them are willing to give service in the Quartermaster's Department. Some are not willing to be connected with the armed forces in any way but are willing to give p... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,657,250 | 2,657,750 |
quite a common disease and most people know what the disease is like. They hardly have to be informed regarding the symptoms of malaria. Q.Do you believe that the experimental subjects, who are laymen after all, really have a clear conception of what the doctor tells them about the symptoms of the disease they are abou... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,657,700 | 2,658,200 |
that this is the only way of having any comparison; is that not also you practice? 9237 AThat depends on the nature of the control, whether you give virulent virus or organism. We do not consider it ethical to give virulent virus or organism to non-protected persons. When you develop a typhus vaccine, we follow the dev... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,658,150 | 2,658,650 |
an act of consent, nor about having the experiments carried out; is that so? AYes. QI should like to put to you what the other prosecution expert witness said regarding this point before this Tribunal. He was asked: "Witness are you of the view that a prisoner, who has been in prison for over ten years, will give his c... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,658,600 | 2,659,100 |
he was asked, "Please give your expert opinion on this experiment as regards medical permissibility." Professor Leibrandt answered, "I cannot change my previously stated opinion about medical ethics involved. I am of the opinion that such experiments as these are an ill chosen form of biological thinking. And I point o... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,659,050 | 2,659,550 |
respects agree with the opinions of Dr. Leibrandt who testified here on behalf of the Prosecution. Seems to me that that matter, in view of the press of time, need not be expiated upon further since you counsel have asked for so much time which has been accorded. The fact that there is a difference of opinion of the tw... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,659,500 | 2,660,000 |
to make it clear, and I don't think we arc of two minds in this matter, that the State has the possibility of releasing human beings from their moral and legal responsibilities if it does so in the interest of the State, isn't that so? AYes, in the United States you don't have to fight if you believe that it is wrong. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,659,950 | 2,660,450 |
their own legislators who determine that. Totalitarism and democracy are two different worlds of thought and behavior and it is difficult to reconcile them. Q.Must not the citizens of totalitarian states obey their governments? A.I do not believe that they should. Q.Do you mean to state that the citizen of any totalita... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,660,400 | 2,660,900 |
Q.If I tell you that Hippocrates stated in his letter #5: "I shall not have any advantage from the rightness of the Persians nor shall I treat a Persian because he is an enemy of the Greek state." Now, if Hippocrates says this would you still be of the opinion that Hippocrates, who expressed such an opinion, is the rig... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,660,850 | 2,661,350 |
if I understand you correctly? A:The principles of the Medical Ethics of the American Medical Association is a document of some 5,000 to 10,000 words. Each principle of the Oath of Hippocrates is developed to indicate how they apply to modern conditions of medical practice, how they apply to the choice of students for ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,661,300 | 2,661,800 |
stand under the medical law. However, to others I shall not give this knowledge." Now, Doctor, I think you will agree on these versions of the Hippocrates Oath, that they are impertinent and out of line with that? A:I do not agree with that interpretation, that part of the Hippocratic oath directs medical educators tod... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,661,750 | 2,662,250 |
in recess for a few minutes. THE MARSHAL:Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats. The Tribunal is again in session. THE PRESIDENT:Dr. Fritz on behalf of the defendant Rose may crossexamine the witness. Dr. Fritz, I think, asked for fifteen minutes for cross examination. DR.FRITZ (For the defendant Rose): ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,662,200 | 2,662,700 |
A.We do not have coolies in Cuba or in the West Indies. Q.How large is the mortality in yellow fever? A.How large? You mean-- Q.What is the mortality rate? A.That is in epidemics or in the experiments of Walter Reed? Q.Yellow fever in general. A.I think it about fifty percent, if I recollect the figure correctly. It va... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,662,650 | 2,663,150 |
reader and not necessarily for Dr. Strong. QDo you know that the experiments conducted by Strong were criticized? AI have never heard them criticized. QBut that is mentioned in the further papers by Strong, in which he discusses these criticisms. ANo, I have not seen that. QThe experiments by Strong were conducted in 1... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,663,100 | 2,663,600 |
as you just confirmed to me now, may I perhaps, in order to refresh your memory, ask you to turn to page 379 of this paper? I have put a white sheet of paper in that place. Moreover, the tables 4 to 7 of this paper. Perhaps for the benefit of the Tribunal I may read the important lines. On page 379 it says: "The patien... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,663,550 | 2,664,050 |
me, that beriberi is such an important problem that the experiments by Strong, from an ethical and scientific point of view, were justified to their entire extent? AI have heard no criticism of those experiments. QAnd you yourself do not criticize them either? You know the paper after all, do you not? AYes. I read the ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,664,000 | 2,664,500 |
American malaria experiments they worked malaria tropica, and we are both in agreement that malaria tropica is considerably more dangerous than malaria tertiana. May I now ask you whether fatalities occurred in the malaria experiments in American penitentiaries? AIf fatalities have occurred, I have not heard of them QD... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,664,450 | 2,664,950 |
and he personally in the knowledge that his experiments would serve medical research and thus all of humanity, was not very much interested in the nationality of the experimental subjects. AAll I know is that they were prisoners condemned to death, and, according to Dr. Crowell, volunteers. QYou submitted a document to... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,664,900 | 2,665,400 |
to be true. QBut you submitted this paper, this article by Veintimillas and in this paper the experiment by Franciscassa is mentioned. He conducted a similar experiment and he used human controls, that is, infected and non-immunized persons. Are you familiar with that experiment? AI am not familiar with that experiment... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,665,350 | 2,665,850 |
the malarial experiments we have conducted in the United States. Q.Well, this principle, that you keep constantly to the voluntary nature of the experimental subjects, you have already explained sufficiently. Now, I want to ask you only briefly about two other experiments, whether you know them, because in the history ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,665,800 | 2,666,300 |
the natural history of the disease, and in this latter case I presume that adequate animal experimentation had preceded the injection of the volunteer prisoner condemned to die in order to indicate that such an experiment was necessary and worthwhile to perform. The third principle of medical ethics was that the experi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,666,250 | 2,666,750 |
I want to address two brief questions to you myself. Was the problem of making sea water potable, in which you yourself collaborated very well, was it a contribution to humanity in regard to rescue in sea distress? A.Yes. Q.Do you agree with the Englishman Dr. Baker, who wrote a paper about this problem, that every mea... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,666,700 | 2,667,200 |
the muscles are able to give up to three liters, that is three quarts of water --- THE PRESIDENT:The translation is not coming through. Q.Do you agree with the opinion of Marx, that the muscles are able to give up two to three liters, or quarts, of water? A.In, toto, yes. Q.Do you know that in the case of people who ha... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,667,150 | 2,667,650 |
the amount of work it requires standing. Q.Yes. Did you convince yourself, Professor Ivy, that in my record of the experiments the blood pressure at rest of all experimental subjects was taken daily? A.Yes. Q.Do you leave the possibility open that the blood pressure at strain was not taken in order to spare the experim... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,667,600 | 2,668,100 |
hallucinations, and walked or jumped overboard or died. Q:Professor, I believe that you have misunderstood me again. I asked you whether after the rescue, that is, after they had been given fresh water, an observation of permanent damage has so far been published in any world medical literature? A; I know of no article... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,668,050 | 2,668,550 |
Professor Ivy, if I tell you that Sterofundin is nothing but Ringer solution, do you still consider it justified, if Sterofundin is used than a thirst experiment is interrupted, to conclude that it was a serious illness? A:No, I should not conclude that it was, because ... Q:Professor, ... THE PRESIDENT:The witness may... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,668,500 | 2,669,000 |
at the first three charts and I fail to find a weight recorded on the 21st. I find a weight on the 20th, the next weight on the 22nd. Q.Professor, wouldn't it be nonsensical to begin such an experiment without taking the weight on the first day? A.Yes, I should say so. Q.Professor, let me ask you to take a look at Case... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,668,950 | 2,669,450 |
far as I have been able to follow the cases, indicates that the experiments started on the 22nd. For example on subject No. 32, on page 32, the first date apparently is August 22nd and the weight was 67.1 kilos, and on the 23rd it was 65.4, indicating that the experiment may have started on August 22nd. Q:Professor, is... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,669,400 | 2,669,900 |
of the eyeball reflex, but I had not heard the expression "according to Eschner". Q:It is usually so designated in Germany Professor. You still have the charts before you. Please let us go through a few of these cases together and I want to ask you whether it is your opinion that in these cases water, to wit, fresh wat... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,669,850 | 2,670,350 |
it this way, if in a case history you find a notation that states the liver is the way it was before, would you regard that as a pathological pehnomena on? A.- That question is not clear to me. Q.- In one of these charts I noted "Liver not enlarged, liver dullness as before" and the Prosecution construed this to be a p... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,670,300 | 2,670,800 |
has completely recovered since after more than two weeks after the conclusion of the experiments his weight stands so high? A.- Yes, I accept that as an indication but I should like to know the urinary output on the days particularly immediately following the experiment so as to see this increase in weight was not due ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,670,750 | 2,671,250 |
have been present. How extensive the oedema is, is hard to say and I am willing to agree that the figure 53.8 is an error in copying down the weight because it is difficult to believe that the patient may have lost that many kilograms in 24 hours and then jumped up to 62.8 the following 24 hours. QProfessor, if an X-ra... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,671,200 | 2,671,700 |
systolic and 80 diastolic, and then the next record, that is on the 31st, 136 over 90. The next record is.... Is that what you have reference to? QYes, that's what I am referring to. And on the 2nd of September is there a record of blood pressure? AYes, 120 over 76 - pardon me, it's 119 over 70, and then the space afte... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,671,650 | 2,672,150 |
Professor, that Ledell observed that two experimental subjects were capable of a concentration of salt higher than 2%? AYes, and I recall in my direct testimony, I said that since I had not seen that myself in my own experiments, I have wondered whether or not there might not be an experimental error in the case of the... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,672,100 | 2,672,600 |
group kept normal residual nitrogen values. AYes, that is true, with the possible exception of Subject 32. QYes. In a few cases it rises above 50, but particularly in the case of the series using 500 cc seawater everything is normal. Is it not true that seawater taken from near the seacoast contains less salt then wate... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,672,550 | 2,673,050 |
unnecessary. DR. TIPP:It is not necessary, Your Honor. BY DR. TIPP: QProfessor Ivy, if I have understood you correctly you said in your direct examination that the consumption of large amounts of seawater for long periods of time can lead to serious injury and to death; did I understand you correctly? AYes. QYou spoke ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,673,000 | 2,673,500 |
American offices both in the Air Force and the Navy; therefore I may here suppose your understanding for the fact that a responsibile medical officer when considering the introduction of a new drug, would have to consider not only the chemical aspects but also the clinical aspects and particularly in war, also the raw ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,673,450 | 2,673,950 |
will help to shorten things a bit; either he does this in order to confirm the correctness of his own idea or if there are two points of view, he wishes to confirm the correctness of one of them? A.He also demonstrates if there is room or reason for two points of view. Q.Quite so, but you admitted before that both Prof... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,673,900 | 2,674,400 |
authorities, however, whether I am right or these two authorities are right must be decided by an experiment. I believe you can give a perfectly clear answer to that question? A.It is not necessary to ignore such an opinion, but one should not necessarily base their acts on that opinion without seekin the opinions I ha... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,674,350 | 2,674,850 |
would precipitate salt from seawater; is that correct? AYes. QAnd, it could be ascertained chemically with absolute certainty that Berka's Berkatit would not precipitate salt from seawater? AThat is my opinion. QAnd, that consequently any experiment carried on with Berkatit would be in essence nothing more or loss than... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,674,800 | 2,675,300 |
perspiration, then that loss of salt is deleterious. Q.I thought, Professor, it was pointed out that through the loss in the blood, the so-called hypochlorenia -- that is, the sodium choloride loss in the blood is important, and that therefore there can be some damaging results. A.That only occurs with excessive sweati... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,675,250 | 2,675,750 |
the Schaefer water was superior to anything else, but also the observation that the kidneys can nevertheless concentrate so astonishly well up to the concentration of sea water that in the future one could give the advice that in cases of sea distress instead of being completely thirsty, one could rather drink 500cc. o... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,675,700 | 2,676,200 |
Ivy his opinion on that matter? DR. TIPP:If I may see by way of supplement, I asked Dr. Ivy whether this was the opinion which Prof. Vollhardt represented here, and whether it is the same opinion that the expert has, because the contradiction which Prof. Ivy found in Prof. Vollhardt's testimony I cannot find, for the v... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,676,150 | 2,676,650 |
this quotation which I just read. As far as I can see, this entire quotation does not speak about any experiments at Dachau. It begins:" At this meeting Dr. BeckerFreyseng reported on the clinical experiments conducted by Col. D. von Sirany." Perhaps the "Dr. von Sirany" does not mean anything to you in this connection... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,676,600 | 2,677,100 |
seawater and berkatit, and as dict also the prescribed emergency sea rations. Duration of experiments: 12 days. Since in the opinion of the Chief of the Medical Service, permanent injuries to health or the death of the experimental subjects have to be expected, only such persons should be used as experimental subjects ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,677,050 | 2,677,550 |
was administered or was supposed to be administered which from the very beginning would bring about fatal consequence? A:No, I do not. Q:Thus you are saying that the concept of survival time can be seen only from this document, but that the rest of the program and the actual execution are contrary to the planning of su... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,677,500 | 2,678,000 |
to the Reich Minister of the Interior, of the 7th of June 1944. The question of the voluntary nature of the experimental subjects which is discussed in the first sentence of this document, I ask you not to consider at the moment. I only ask you to look at the rest of the sentences, and then to tell me whether this docu... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,677,950 | 2,678,450 |
the Reich Physician of the SS and Police, so that the scientific subjects had been clarified already in advance, in detail, and this letter was only a formal matter and only had to contain the scientific question quite briefly. Now, a further question, Professor Ivy. When you had made your application for those perform... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,678,400 | 2,678,900 |
supposed to serve humanity. In other words, to express it differently, as Governor Green said according to your testimony, the State of Illinois carried out these experiments in order to help the United States win the war; is that correct? A.Yes. In the case of the prisoners, they were motivated in order to help people... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,678,850 | 2,679,350 |
understands that situation. I don't know that Dr. Ivy is an expert who can testify on that subject. I think if you have no further pertinent questions, we might turn the cross-examination over to Dr. Weissgerber. BY DR. TIPP: If your honors please, I have only one more question, since my time has been, limited by the T... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,679,300 | 2,679,800 |
I did not understand what report was indicated. THE PRESIDENT:Will Counsel identify the report, the document again DR. WEISSGERBER:It is DocumentNO-492,Prosecution Exhibit 66. Professor, shall I repeat my question or would you like to answer it right now? A.You are referring to Document 402, I believe, of the RuffRombe... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,679,750 | 2,680,250 |
40,000 or 47,000 feet, where he remained breathing oxygen at the surrounding pressure at 40,000, or with additional pressure or pressure breathing at the altitude of 47,500 feet. Q.Why didn't you find it necessary to extend your experiments to that phase as contained in the Ruff experiments? A.Because we felt that on t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,680,200 | 2,680,700 |
the United States had to register. Q.Register for the draft? A.For the draft or selective service. Q.That is, conscription into the United States armed forces? A.Yes. Then at some time later the actual draft occurred. The conscientious objector could, announce that he was a conscientious objector to serving in battle o... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,680,650 | 2,681,150 |
university? A:Yes, in the dormitories or in the hospitals. Q:Were they under any surveillance at all? A:One person in the group was appointed as a leader, supervisor of the group, and it was his duty to see that the men carried out their instructions properly and on time. Q:Was it possible for any one of those objector... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,681,100 | 2,681,600 |
the prosecution produced some other witnesses for the cross-examination. HR. HARDY:That is agreeable with me. The other witnesses we have, I haven't been able to talk to yet and I don't know just when they will be able to take the witness stand. However, the witness Tschofenik will be availble tomorrow and as stated by... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,681,550 | 2,682,050 |
a part of the German anti-Jewish program so far as you know? A.- That happened with the transformation of Austria by the National Socialist Government, and was, of course, a part of the Nazi program. I have no further questions. THE PRESIDENT:Does any Defense Counsel have any questions to propound to the witness? DR. T... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,682,000 | 2,682,500 |
like to call Tschofenig prior to the submitting of the Beiglboeck documents by defense counsel. THE PRESIDENT:There was one other witness to be called by the defendant Beiglboeck, the witness Mettbach. Is he available, Dr. Steinbauer? DR. STEINBAUER:The witness has been summoned for this afternoon - the witness Mettbac... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,682,450 | 2,682,950 |
every opportunity to cross examine but the prosecution should open the examination as the witness was called by the prosecution in rebuttal. BY MR. HARDY: Q.Would you continue, Mr, Tschofenig, please. A.After a few months in a technical activity I also participated in political life, because I am of a social democratic... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,682,900 | 2,683,400 |
government of that province. After the election on 25 November 1945 I was a representative in the Land Diet of my party and as such I am active in political life today. Q.You are a member of Parliament, so to speak, in Austria at the present time? A.I am a member of the Carinthian Land Diet of the province of Carinthia... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,683,350 | 2,683,850 |
who was in charge of the X-ray station and already in 1942 it happened that no responsible SS physician was appointed as director of the X-ray station and, thus, the X-ray station was left to itself. QWell then, after 1943, you were quite independent in your position as Chief of the X-ray station, is that correct? A I ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,683,800 | 2,684,300 |
after he heard of the results of the examinations that I got, expressed some suspicion of my results of the 9335a examination and asked me for X -rays, and through the instruction of the camp physician to take as few X-ray pictures as possible because we did not have the material for the, Dr. Beiglboeck again checked t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,684,250 | 2,684,750 |
to 300 fluoroscope examinations and 100 X -ray pictures and could talk very little with the prisoners who newly arrived at the camp about their nationality or about their ideas. Q.Could you tell us approximately when the experiments began end when they were completed or do you specifically recall the dates? A.The exact... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,684,700 | 2,685,200 |
had died, The opinion of the station physician, who was an inmate himself, was that the ultimate cause were the sea-water experiments and that death had been caused by that. QDid you receive this information as official? AThis report I received officially through the station, with the instructions to give my report to ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,685,150 | 2,685,650 |
in the British zone of Austria before I gave this testimony to the Police. Q.We shall speak about that later. Witness, at the moment I am only interested in that your party organ writes that the British kidnapped you? AI was of the opinion that it was sufficient to give an affidavit and in that way to make my statement... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,685,600 | 2,686,100 |
the problem of the defense counsel, if he desires to testify to the character he may take the witness stand end do so. Whether or not the witness is "intelligent or fanatic" it is not for the defense counsel to state from this podium. TEE PRESIDENT:The statements contained in counsel's address to witness were not prope... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,686,050 | 2,686,550 |
regime approached its end. Q.That is the opinion that many people had outside of the concentration camp too, witness. Now, another question, witness, a very respectable physician appeared here, a Czech, and he reported that the most amazing rumors were current in the camp and there was a mass psychosis in the camp; is ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,686,500 | 2,687,000 |
of the affidavit he signed in Germany. THE PRESIDENT:The affidavits which the witness made in the German language will be handed to him. DR. STEINBAUER:I don't have them, Your Honor. THE PRESIDENT:I understand that, but they should be available in the office of the Secretary General. MR. HARDY:One is Document Book No. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,686,950 | 2,687,450 |
true, And he talked to Eppinger in August? A.- Yes. Q.- Then you do not exclude the possibility of a mistake. Eppinger was there, but you can't say exactly when he was there? A.- I cannot give the date, but Prof. Eppinger was there. The prisoner Lebersdorfer recognized him and told me personally that after he, Lebersdo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,687,400 | 2,687,900 |
distress at sea were to be imitated. And we can prove by showing tables that the sea emergency rations contained as little salt as possible. Can you imagine that Beiglboeck gave these people a salt diet? A.- Salt water experiments -- and apparently salt water was included in the food as was said in the hospital. I had ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,687,850 | 2,688,350 |
not the sea water experiments. A.- Here I was referring to the experimental stations in general, but particularly the Luftwaffe experimental station. Q.- Now, we go on to the affidavit of 14 May. You say there that healthy gypsies came from Sachsenhausen. You still maintain that today? A.- Yes. Q.- Then you say that th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,688,300 | 2,688,800 |
that. In examining the X-ray pictures, there were various prison doctors working and assistants working in the station. There were also some Frenchmen in the Luftwaffe station. Q:Now did this French doctor or you evaluate the findings? A:I evaluated the findings of the fluoroscope and X-ray pictures. I also gave the fi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,688,750 | 2,689,250 |
A:During the experiment at this station, one of these experimental subjects came to me several times and I asked him same questions. Q:In German? A:Yes, he spoke German Q:Now why was this man X-rayed the second time? A:I don't know what the reason was. Q:Excuse me, but you can tell me, was that before the experiment, d... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,689,200 | 2,689,700 |
ordered by the station and -- he was immediately removed and taken back afterwards. QDid you have an X-ray machine with a collapsible table? AYes. QWhat did you do to give this patient special care? APatients who were brought for a fluoroscopic examination on a stretcher were stood up by the assistants behind the machi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,689,650 | 2,690,150 |
you believe that in such a close community the people would certainly have learned of it if three days after the end of the experiment one of them died? AEvents in a concentration camp are such that oven a neighbor can die without his comrade learning about it. QNow, if I say to you that a number of your former comrade... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,690,100 | 2,690,600 |
a right to distrust you, because you yourself have admitted that you tried to deceive him, though prompted by honorable motives. AI have a very high opinion of medical science, but in a concentration camp I had to develop quite a different opinion of these doctors. QHow often did you see Beiglboeck, talk to him? APerha... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,690,550 | 2,691,050 |
the experiment. Q.Later, after the liberation, did you perhaps meet any of the experimental subjects? A.I do not remember doing so. Q.Do you consider the people whom I have mentioned-Pillwein, Worlicek, Marcio, and then there was a Dr. Lesse, - do you consider them decent, creditable persons, or do you want to say that... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,691,000 | 2,691,500 |
in the camp with Beiglboeck, not in Dachau but in the camp at Tarvis, a troop camp, and met him there. I shall read only from page 14, the first sentence: "All soldiers honored and loved him; to wards the patients he was like a faithfully caring mother, and he had a kind word for everyone. Russian and Italian prisoners... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,691,450 | 2,691,950 |
postpone his own research work on infectious jaundice--hepatitis epidemicaowing to these experiments." The next document which I offer is the affidavit of Professor Dr. Carl-Heinz Fishcher, as Exhibit No. 27, Document Book 2, No. 30, page 111. Professor Dr. Carl Heinz Fischer is a specialist for diseases of the teeth, ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,691,900 | 2,692,400 |
months in the daily Press and in other quarters. Some of the statements made and the opinions expressed have indicated lack of knowledge of the scientific and practical aspects of the problem and of the possibilities and impossibilities." Then he closes with a summary which I should like to read to the Tribunal on page... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,692,350 | 2,692,850 |
performed the sea water experiments on himself, drinking daily half a liter of sea water for, as far as I remember, five days in order to create by this preceding self-experiment his own impression of the experiment." page 100a. Then at the bottom of page 101: "He told mo that during the tests he constantly carried thr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,692,800 | 2,693,300 |
same care and the same interest as our own wounded soldiers and in this connection I can name our patients Major Olen Bryant (0789090 T 41) and Lt. Robert F. Horan (0773385 T 43/44) of the American Air Force, who lay in my department for some considerable time before the collapse." And the next document which I offer a... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,693,250 | 2,693,750 |
regained, indicating that the loss of water had been responsible for much of the emaciation. .." MR. HARDY:Your Honor, it was the intention of Dr. Steinbauer to have that translated into German simultaneously with the English reading thereof--the two paragraphs. INTERPRETER:Your Honor, we can't read over the English an... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,693,700 | 2,694,200 |
a further question. Please let me finish. MR. HARDY:We should discuss this subject concerning the documents before we go on to another subject. I have extensive number of things to take up concerning these documents. Perhaps we can finish that before Dr. Steinbauer goes on with something else. THE PRESIDENT:I think it ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,694,150 | 2,694,650 |
part the names, and I do not feel that I have the right to help the Prosecution in their research. I also stated that there are names on the fever charts, and that I should not submit them, even if the danger exists that the expert opinion of Professor Vollhardt should not be accepted by the Court.I should like to rema... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,694,600 | 2,695,100 |
Therefore, I believe that it is not in accordance with my legal obligations as defense counsel, now that when I have already finished my case and when the prosecution's case in chief is finished, -- I didn't know the prosecution would bring new witnesses now and new evidence -- I don't consider it in accordance with my... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,695,050 | 2,695,550 |
over to the Prosecution. The Tribunal took them into custody with directions that they remain in the custody of the General Secretary only, to be examined by either counsel for the Prosecution or the Defense in the presence of someone designated by the Secretary General. The Tribunal never directed that they should be ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,695,500 | 2,696,000 |
altered the stenographic notes on the back of one of the charts. If these charts can be reconstructed by adding the names -- many of them were admitted by the witness on the stand, and the record will show many of the names. In as far as the names can be restored to the original document it should be done. MR. HARDY:No... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,695,950 | 2,696,450 |
to the defense. MR. HARDY:If there is no further discussion concerning these documents and the charts, I would like to call the witness Vorlicek to the stand. THE PRESIDENT:Has counsel for defendant Beiglboeck anything further? DR. STEINBAUER:No, I have nothing else to say. I only have one request: that I may be permit... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,696,400 | 2,696,900 |
duties? Were you assigned to a work detail? A.No, first I was sent to Block 15. That was for eight days; then I entered a commando work detail. Q.At any time did you ever work in the concentration camp hospital? A.I was only a patient in the concentration camp hospital. Q.Did you ever work in the experimental wards of ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,696,850 | 2,697,350 |
a result lie on the floor in anguish? AYes. QCan you tell me about that more specifically, witness? AI entered the room and there was between two beds a patient, he was lying there, having a. cramp attack, and I didn't know what was going on. QW hat happened to that patient? AHe helped himself, that is, in about a half... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,697,300 | 2,697,800 |
know the Slavic language, and there were some Czechoslovakians among them, I spoke with them and they told me that they came from Auschwitz concentration camp; they had been asked who wanted to volunteer for good outside assignments; some of them reported, and only when they came to Dachau did they find out what it was... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,697,750 | 2,698,250 |
assume new duties? AI don't know. QDid you, assume new duties, you, yourself? ANo. QWell, where did you go to work after the experiments were completed? AThen I became a patient in my block. QWere you able to ascertain whether or not any of the inmates used in the experiments were in the hospital? AI don't know. QNow, ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,698,200 | 2,698,700 |
A.Yes. Q.Before this Tribunal I want you to understand that you can clearly testify as to any facts which you have knowledge of concerning the activities in the experimental station at Dachau wherein the sea water experiments took place, and I want you to feel perfectly at liberty to express any opinions you have conce... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,698,650 | 2,699,150 |
a week later. Q.And what happened during this week? A.I don't know. Q.Were people already undergoing the experiments? Were the people already drinking sea water or starving, or what was going on? A.I don't know. I only know that when I came there new experiment were begun. Q.Is it right that you came there because your... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,699,100 | 2,699,600 |
A.There must be a mistake here. Q.It's incorrect what it says here. A.Yes. Q.Can you remember the name of this man with the green insignia? A.Only his first name: Max. Q.Max - oh, yes, that famous Max. Then you say, "The experimental subjects were divided into groups. One group was injected with a red serum."' I have a... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,699,550 | 2,700,050 |
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