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Q.That is not my question, Doctor; my question is: In scientific research is it necessary to keep accurate or haphazard records? AOf course, it is necessary to have exact in recording the amount of Urine we put the amounts down in a separate booklet. QThese records that are before the Tribunal purport to be accurate sc... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,565,000 | 2,565,500 |
begin on that day. You notice here that once the experiment began he lost 2.5 kilos and 2 kilos and so on. In other words, a hunger-thirst experiment supposes that the man will lose weight immediately once it begins. Q.Doctor, can you tell the Tribunal when the arrow in the portion of the chart under the numth day of t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,565,450 | 2,565,950 |
the blue circle on the end thereof and the blue vertical mark which has been erased on the chart B-l, under date of 22 August, the 9th day of the experiment, were marks made on. these charts since the commencement of this action before this Tribunal? A.Yes, I can exclude that possibility. I did. not mark anything at al... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,565,900 | 2,566,400 |
end thereof, found on chart B-1 under date of 22 August, the 9th day of the experiment, on this chart at a later date in order to shorten the period of starvation of this patient? In other words to shorten the experimental days from 7 to 6? JUDGE SEBRING:Do you mean that, Mr. Hardy? Or, do you moan to apparently shorte... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,566,350 | 2,566,850 |
the charts. Q.When? A.I believe that I did it in the year 1945. Q. 1945? A.Yes. Q.You didn't do it in prison? A.No. Q. 1945? That is one year after the completion of the experiments? A.Yes. At that time I evaluated them again. Q.Isn't a chart of scientific experiments supposed to represent things that actually happened... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,566,800 | 2,567,300 |
makes a mistake and, if he made a mistake, he later on corrects it. I consider that entirely possible. Q.Well, now, you say, under the date of the 21st of August, contained on Chart A-1, that the weight under the eighth experimental day does not appear and that if you had commenced the experiment on that date that the ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,567,250 | 2,567,750 |
Chart B-1, the 14th day of the experiment, appears some pencil notations which indicate, I assume, that this patient was rather ill and that you gave him 100 cc of sterofundin, 4C cc of glucose and 10 cc of calcium, by vein. Is that correct? A.As far as I can tell from the blue lino, he must have received at least 500 ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,567,700 | 2,568,200 |
of the charting of the subject's condition? A.Please show me the black notebook. Then, I can tell you exactly how much urine the patient eliminated on the 29th. The 29th...... Q.Or was this one of the patients who throw away his urine? A.I know now, The 29th - from that date on, the urine was no longer saved because we... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,568,150 | 2,568,650 |
Chart C-1? AOn the 12th September 1944. QIs it in the black book? ANo. QWhy not? A Because the weights are recorded only here on these curves, and in the black book they put down the amount of urine, the specific weight of the urine, the BH determination of the urine, the blood analysis, etc. and similar things. The we... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,568,600 | 2,569,100 |
that is not a deadly sign. Q If the pulse curves and fever curves intersect is that a sign that would give a clinician cause to worry about his patient, would he have a little more cause to worry about his patient than usual? A I don't know whether this pulse was not taken after the experimental subject happened to hav... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,569,050 | 2,569,550 |
would probably have done it in such a way that you could not read it now. Q Have you been advised that was erased here in Nurnberg? ANo. Q Can you look at the name on chart A-2 and determine from the impression thereon what letters may have been there before the erasure; using this glass? (A magnifying glass is handed ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,569,500 | 2,570,000 |
not understand your question. Q At any time has your defense counsel consulted with you concerning alterations on these charts? A We were in agreement at all times that the charts and the curves shall be submitted in the same way as we received them here. Q But, this chart has been erased. Doctor, was that in the same ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,569,950 | 2,570,450 |
is possible that I was somewhat superficial. I didn't do that, after all, because I believed that at any time it would, be submitted; but you can see that the weights show Quite clearly that the experiment began on the 22nd. On Case 1 the arrow was on the 21st and the fever curves I believe it must have been on the 22n... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,570,400 | 2,570,900 |
blue pencil to make your evaluation mark, didn't you? AWell, in order to make the difference apparent to the eye, between the beginning and the end, probably that is what it was. I wasn't thinking for a long time at that time about what I was doing. Perhaps, I just liked it that way. I can't tell you that any more. QIs... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,570,850 | 2,571,350 |
first line indicates the date, does it not? A Yes, your Honor. Q On A-2 we find the date in pencil on the first block 14; is that correct? A On the third block, the date 16. QOn the fifth, the date 18, and on the seventh, the date 20. The next block is vacant. AYes. Q That would be the 21st of the month, would it not? ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,571,300 | 2,571,800 |
made an error and he corrected that. This was carried out on the same way, day by day, one day after the other. THE PRESIDENT:Very well. BY MR. HARDY: Q Under the date of 28 August on chart B-2, we find in the fifth block under the graph section of the chart the word which I will spell "Z-u", and the next word "S-c-h-w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,571,750 | 2,572,250 |
of the experiment. If a thirsting person is given 350 cc's Sterofundin intravenously the experiment has, of course, been interrupted. Q Well, you had some trouble with this patient, didn't you? Weren't his pulse and temperature rather erratic? A If you consider a temperature of 37.2 a strong disturbance of temperature,... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,572,200 | 2,572,700 |
"den", didn't he? A At the moment I cannot tell you any more why the medical student, this French medical student, at that time wrote "um den". That is the way it was determined at that time. What reason should we have had at that time to write about. Q Where did this patient go after the 3rd of September? To the hospi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,572,650 | 2,573,150 |
THE PRESIDENT: These records having been impounded by the Tribunal must remain in the custody of the representative of the Secretary General. If either party wishes to examine them during the noon recess, he may do so in the presence of the Secretary General. The Court will now be in recess until 1:30 o'clock. (Thereup... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,573,100 | 2,573,600 |
contained in the top left hand corner of chart A-3? ABernhard. QSpell that. AYes that is Bernhard. QKindly spell that for us. A B-e-r-n-h-a-r-d. Q Now, under the 21 August on chart A-3, under the 8th day of the experiment, does the markings therein where the German words "Hunger D" appear indicate the state of the expe... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,573,550 | 2,574,050 |
ccm in his urine. In other words the subject does not excrete all but absorbs a great deal of it. In this case the amount of urine is no reliable proof for the fact whether he drank or not. However, the difference in weight a person who is thirsting loses is a reliable proof. For it is impossible for a person thirsting... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,574,000 | 2,574,500 |
if he had known that this would become a matter of discussion in a trial perhaps he wouldn't have chosen this expression. It simply means taken when lying down and after exercise. This young colleague was not one of those who liked to work very much and consequently he wasn't too careful in what terminology he chose. Q... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,574,450 | 2,574,950 |
That means that the muscles had given up-water. That is a typical symptom of thirst. Q Well, what would be necessary to take the blood pressure of a patient in such a condition as that? Couldn't that be taken under any circumstances? AI did not get that. Q Couldn't the blood pressure of a person in a condition as set f... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,574,900 | 2,575,400 |
the experiment. I suppose that some one first entered the urine here and then the next person could not find space for his entry in the proper place. That is something I knew very well at the time because it is clear that the interruption - it is perfectly clear that the introduction of this fluid into the person meant... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,575,350 | 2,575,850 |
the temperature of the patient. Was that drop a fatal one? A This drop could not have been fatal because it was followed by a subsequent rise. It seldom happens that a dying person's temperature rises. That is almost impossible. Q Well, is this case of Bernhard one of your most troublesome ones? A He was one of the few... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,575,800 | 2,576,300 |
continue to reiterate what I have said, on the day before I determined who would hunger and thirst, who would get sea water, etc. and that indicates that the experiment would begin on the following day. QThen if an expert looked at this and did not consult the weights he would, think the experiment began on the 8th day... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,576,250 | 2,576,750 |
cannot recall looking at that erasure just who the experimental subject was, can you? ANo. QThis case No. VII is this the first case of persons given Schaefer water to drink? AYes. QAnd how long did this person drink Schaefer water? AI estimate 12 days. QHe drank Schaefer water then from the 21st or 22nd of August? AFr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,576,700 | 2,577,200 |
It is made apparent in the urine, of course, consequently the figures show here more water was consumed than was eliminated in the urine. If you eat food, which is rather large in salt contents, such as these people received in their preliminary food and then you feed to them sea ration emergency caliber food, then thi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,577,150 | 2,577,650 |
markings made with the red and blue pencil made on the 21,22 end 23 of August, let us treat with the 22nd of August, that is the red arrow with the black circle at the end there which has been stricken out with the red pencil; when did you make this line? AThis change from the 21st to the 23rd was made in Dachau. When ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,577,600 | 2,578,100 |
that is what it looks like to me. You can see very clearly that the continuation of the lines is there. BY MR. HARDY: QWe will turn now to Case No. 9, Your Honor, kindly mark those. Now, this is the case, is it not, of the experiment subject who obviously was too ill to undergo the experiments, hence you dismissed him.... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,578,050 | 2,578,550 |
was that for a few days he drank fresh water and then he began the experiment all over again. Q.Did he revolunteer to be resubjected to sea water experiments? This is a case of a man drinking plain sea water, isn't it? A.Yes, and he did revolunteer. Q.And after having drank water and cheated on the experiments during t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,578,500 | 2,579,000 |
attention to the names. I simply looked at the weights. Q.You mean you didn't pay any attention to the names of the subjects? A.No, I didn't because I had the names in the black booklet anyway. Q.Of course, they are not in the black book any more. A.That is so. DR. STEINBAUER:Because I have the cover, Mr. Hardy, and yo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,578,950 | 2,579,450 |
note the red arrow indicating interruption and the initials thereunder in blue pencil "L.P." What does that refer to? A.That means liver puncture. Q.What was the purpose of the liver puncture in this instance? A.I have already told you that Eppinger asked me to make liver punctures. Q.Why did you only follow this patie... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,579,400 | 2,579,900 |
fluid was again taken into the body the liver-became somewhat enlarged. In my opinion that resulted from the fact that some of the salt from the sea water remained in the liver, and that the enlargement of the liver, which also happens when a large amount of fluid is injected, but is very sensory, in this case because ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,579,850 | 2,580,350 |
is called table salt fever. With children, such a temperature rise, up to 38 or 39 degrees centigrades. In this case, the temperature went up to 37.6 during the course of an injection of hypertonic salt solution. That is no dangerous event, and immediately after the intraveneous injection they had a short rise in tempe... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,580,300 | 2,580,800 |
they did not take the pulse. That is an occurrence which disappears quite quickly. This rise of temperature after the injection of physiological salt is not a result of my experiment. It did not happen for the first time in Dachau and had nothing to do with sea water, but it is quite a frequent reaction when liquid is ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,580,750 | 2,581,250 |
seriously ill but it is a reaction which has been observed more than one hundred times, a reaction to the intraveneous injection of liquid, and that he did not have a paralysis of the bladder after the termination is evident from the fact that on the other days when the measurements were still taken there was still a u... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,581,200 | 2,581,700 |
interrupt the experiment and give him a small quantity of water, and then again put him back on seawater for a period of 5 days in the interim, making an attempt to assimilate an actual rainfall while a person is on a raft in an open sea, wouldn't that be of interst? A.I do not believe that a person on the high seas co... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,581,650 | 2,582,150 |
drank at least onehalf a liter or half a quarter of water. On the 25th to 26th he does not lose any weight at all, even though suffering from hunger, starving. It is quite certain he drank at least one quart water, then he loses a kilo. Then he loses 600 gram, and then starts to drink again. Here from the 29th to the 3... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,582,100 | 2,582,600 |
days, just what happened to this patient? A:The people recovered completely afterward and as you can see he also was discharged with the weight of 57 kilograms after he arrived with the weight of 55 kilograms, that is he gained 2½ kilograms and I discharged him weighing 2½ kilograms more than when I received him. Q:Wha... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,582,550 | 2,583,050 |
for a period of seven and one half days; was he not? A:Six and one half, perhaps. Q:Including three days of hunger? A:Yes. Q:Your Honors, I note that this subject on the 22nd - shown on Chart B-22 - was subjected to sea-water, and then on the 25th that is three days after he was drinking sea-water, is also subjected to... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,583,000 | 2,583,500 |
could be translated and the last phrase could be translated as "dullness". At the beginning is the word "dullness" or "dampness"; would you read the German Doctor, it is a question to the interpreter? A:The German word is Daempfung", it is a certain medical expression. If when the chest is struck and if it makes a soun... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,583,450 | 2,583,950 |
of the hypotonic solution in the experiment was discontinued. Q.How much did this man weigh on the 30th day of August as indicated on C23, Chart C23? He weighed 53.8 kilograms, did he not? A.It is written very badly but you can see here it has been transferred. It is supposed to read "59.8." Q.When was this pencil nota... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,583,900 | 2,584,400 |
copies also for the Tribunal to follow you, and if you have any discrepancy to point out with the transcription as set out in the English - JUDGE SEBRING:Are you offering this, Mr. Hardy? MR. HARDY:That is a problem, your Honor. I want to have him transcribe the notes and when the Tribunal settles who will offer this d... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,584,350 | 2,584,850 |
-- not palpability but the pulse is less well filled, less full. Then this which is described here as undecipherable reads: "The cell walls are somewhat thickened." Here I probably said "more strongly thickened". "Liver 2½-3 fingers below sternal margin, rather soft, moderately sensitive to pressure." "Spleen soft" is ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,584,800 | 2,585,300 |
legible under here says: "Numb, drowsy". Q.After the sentence that I have just read: "He asks for water- THE PRESIDENT:I did not understand the witness' explanation of that last double reading of the shorthand. What was your explanation, witness? THE WITNESS:The German word "benommen", numb. THE PRESIDENT:Numb? Not unc... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,585,250 | 2,585,750 |
do that quite frequently when something is written above the line in stenography that I write it over again. Q.Now, if you will turn to the sentence in the third paragraph which reads: "Respiration somewhat flatter moderately frequently", appeared originally, did it not, before an erasure was made? The word, instead of... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,585,700 | 2,586,200 |
in Nurnberg? A.Yes, I did that too. Q.Now, doctor, these notes that are on the back here, I note that you state that the bulb of the eyeball -- that the eyes are deeply haloed. That is the fifth paragraph. What does it mean if the bulb of the eyeball goes soft in a patient? A.It doesn't mean that they become soft but t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,586,150 | 2,586,650 |
please describe the condition in the words stated by counsel for the prosecution. THE WITNESS:I said already that it is the remaining open of the lids, that they remain open. BY MR. HARDY: Q.Go ahead. A.Thus by lagophthalmus one mEans an open condition of thE lids with the eyes turned around, the eyeballs. That is, the... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,586,600 | 2,587,100 |
to - Romberg, plus, plus? What is a two plus Romberg? A.Romberg is a reflex or an examination concerning the so-called ataxia. Why, in these patients, not only in the one that is described here, but in most cases, it was a positive Romberg, that is connected with a weakness of the muscles. If the muscles are somewhat w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,587,050 | 2,587,550 |
is not one and the same man as described by Tschofenik in his affidavit? A.These stenographic notes refer, first of all, not at all to Case 23 but to Case 30. Q.Why are they written on the back of case 23? A.Probably it was lying next to it and I made the notes here before the interruption. Q.Then, it's Case 30 that th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,587,500 | 2,588,000 |
Marshal to move the other microphone down to this table so that we can use it for the purpose of this interrogation? THE PRESIDENT:Mr. Marshal, will you bring the movable microphope down? MR. HARDY:While we're waiting for him to bring the movable microphone down, Your Honor, defense counsel for Earl Brandt has requeste... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,587,950 | 2,588,450 |
many days? AFor nine days. QIs it obvious from Chart B-30 and C-30 that this experimental subject cheated and drank normal water? AThat did happen on the 25th, From the 25th to the 26th he lost only 300 grams of weight. From the 28th to 29th, he lost only 200 grams. Therefore, in those two days, he certainly drank fres... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,588,400 | 2,588,900 |
I imagined that if retention of salt had taken place, the salt in the blood as well as in the brain fluid must nave increased; therefore, I believed that if I would undertake a lumbar juncture I could reduce the store of salt in the body fluid. That was the reason. Q.Now on the 30th of August, as indicated on the Chart... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,588,850 | 2,589,350 |
on the basis of these changes in the muscles, the dehydration of the mucuous membrane, which I described as dehydration here; a certain apathy, which is expressed by thirst. Q.Professor Biegelboeck, in these stenographic notes on Line 4, where the erasure has been made from the middle of the line to the end of the line... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,589,300 | 2,589,800 |
Tribunal anything else in connection with those alterations if you wish? A.Well, I want to state again that I am very sorry that I did it. I, as I said, I only had the intention to submit the charts to show the weights and not because of the other results of the medical examinations, because I am of the opinion that fr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,589,750 | 2,590,250 |
decide how much is lost through starving. I also calculated these changes in the weight and always deducted that from the entire loss of weight, so that one can from that see how much is lost due to the water. I calculated the following values and found out that through hunger alone on the first day 1,000 cc is lost; o... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,590,200 | 2,590,700 |
been drunk in between. In that manner the loss of weight would take place if the experiment were continued regularly, while lesser losses of weight, that is, less than one kilogram per day, show in this experiment with certainty water was being drunk. May I perhaps pull out these charts and in the form of a written rep... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,590,650 | 2,591,150 |
that A, B, and C, please? THE PRESIDENT:Before proceeding to that, I would like to ask the witness regarding Case 30, in connection with which you made the stenographic notes. What was the age of that experimental subject? THE WITNESS:He must have been about, as far as I remember, 24 or 25 years old. THE PRESIDENT:Do y... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,591,100 | 2,591,600 |
the x-ray ordered the 31st or is this an additional x-ray? A.That is an additional x-ray. The patient then got a fever three days after the conclusion of the experiment and caused an acute bronchitis and then I again sent him to be x-rayed. Q.Did this fever that we see, that skyrocketed up to 39.8 give you cause for wo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,591,550 | 2,592,050 |
imagine there may be some medical terms that may confuse. A. "On the 2nd of September some pains in the area of the stomach. Otherwise, subjectively no complaints. Temperature up to 38 degrees centigrade. Bronchitis above the bases of the lung. "3rd of September, left basel on both sides above the lung; a shortening of... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,592,000 | 2,592,500 |
the subject be given same attention, medical attention? A:Yes. Q:And you left Dachau on the 15th? A:Yes, that is why I required that the experimental subjects still be kept under medical attention. It was my request that they should again be examined. Q:Then you turned these subjects over to the tender mercy of the SS ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,592,450 | 2,592,950 |
depends upon what illness he had. If someone has a little inflammation of the throat which has already disappeared, that really is not a serious illness. Q:I note that on the dates from 1 September to 10 September that this man's pulse rate rose continually, stayed about normal for an extensive period of time, and that... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,592,900 | 2,593,400 |
three years of age? A:I can tell you with certainly that this was not done in Nurnberg. And if you look at the figures which are written in such a characteristic manner are thus in the handwriting of the French medical student. If you will compare them with the other figures you can see that it is the same handwriting ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,593,350 | 2,593,850 |
daily weights that were taken. These figures that were recorded up here - that is the final weight. That is the last weight that was taken. I would like to say for sure that the medical student recorded it on a wrong day because we had agreed that the final weight will be recorded up here. Q.Did he do the same for all ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,593,800 | 2,594,300 |
Schaefer for whom he has given an affidavit, but I ask permission that, instead of the written opinion of Professor Glatzel, which is in my document book, I be allowed to call this expert too as a witness so that he can comment on the material submitted by Professor Ivy. I was not able to give him this material before ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,594,250 | 2,594,750 |
the experiment for three days altogether. He lost 2 kilograms. Q.Well, a man 49 years of age didn't meet with the qualifications of the Luftwaffe, did he? A.I have already said I did not want to take him in the first place, but he wanted to stay there and I accepted him into the experiment symbolically, as it were. It ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,594,700 | 2,595,200 |
we have, on Chart A-40, an obvious erasure of the name of the subject. Do you see that, Doctor? I have been able to decipher that to read Ferdinand Daniel. Would that be correct? A.Yes, that's right. Q.How old was that young man? A. 16, it says here. Q.Did you have the consent of his parents? A.I have already said, nei... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,595,150 | 2,595,650 |
point of view. A 16-year old would be able to hold out better than a 20 year old. Q Is that why you permitted a boy of 16 to be subjected to these experiments, or didn't you concern yourself with his age? A He was quite well developed. In my opinion 16 years is not a reason why a person can't drink sea water for a few ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,595,600 | 2,596,100 |
in practice any other way than to carry out the experiments in a room. Q It is pretty warm in August and September in the area of Dachau, is it not? A The end of August or beginning of September it was not so warm anymore. It was the beginning of fall. Q Well, the climate in Dachau is similar to the climate here in Nur... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,596,050 | 2,596,550 |
1944 these weights were quite the average weights in Germany. Q Now, these men averaged about 60 kilos, that is striking an average, isn't that so, or about 120 pounds? A Yes. But you must consider that these are rather short persons; I have just given you the height. They are about 160. Some of them are even under 160... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,596,500 | 2,597,000 |
was in the experiment and especially if he drank water. I consider this last point especially important. A.I believe No. 2 has already been discussed. Q.Yes. A.Yes, No. 2. I think for certain that he drank water once between the 25th and 26th. Q.And the next one, No. 5? A.No. 5 certainly drank a larger amount of water ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,596,950 | 2,597,450 |
was in the experiment for two more days. That is another case, he he drank water daily. He was in the experiment a second time during which he drank water constantly again, his loss from the 2nd to 3rd was 500 grams; 3rd to 4th 200 grams, then the experiment was interrupted for the second time because he failed to carr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,597,400 | 2,597,900 |
the fifth day. I should like to say that in the second group, when I knew their devices from my experiences with the first group, I knew what to do and broke off the experiments. If I had wanted to continue the experiments, I would have done it in the second group too. This I did in the first group only because at firs... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,597,850 | 2,598,350 |
day. Case 37 probably from the third to the fourth day drank a little water, probably not very much. On the whole it was one of the better experiments. On the sixth day he was taken out of the experiment. Case 38 -- from the second to the third day the loss of weight of two hundred cc, although the kidneys alone elimin... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,598,300 | 2,598,800 |
a thousand cc no one was more than three days without fresh water, not a single person. I figured that out subsequently. From the group which got five hundred cc of sea water about 20 to 25 percent showed good results. Those were all cases where the experiment was stopped in a short time, on the sixth day at the latest... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,598,750 | 2,599,250 |
parts, a photostat chart and a typewritten chart. The typewritten chart I have taken from the cross-examination by Mr. Hardy. It contains the experiments which were repeated. Those are cases 11, 13, 17, 18, 19, 20, 29, and 31. I repeat, 11, 13, 17, 18, 19, 20, 29, 31. THE PRESIDENT:I understand that those numbers refer... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,599,200 | 2,599,700 |
room will please find their seats. The Tribunal is again in session. MR. HARDY:May it please the Tribunal, at this time the Prosecution desires to call Dr. Andrew C. Ivy to the witness stand? THE PRESIDENT:Has the witness sheet been made for Dr. Ivy? It can be made as soon as possible. MR. HARDY:I will have it complete... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,599,650 | 2,600,150 |
Society of Internal Medicine of Chicago. QWill you outline for the Tribunal briefly what research experience you have had? AMy research as pertained principly to subjects in physiological and clinical investigation. Most of my work has been in the field of the alimentary tract, more recently in the field of aviation me... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,600,100 | 2,600,600 |
Medicine and the Committee on Decompression Sickness of the National Research Council I recently published two articles on problems pertaining to decompression sickness. One appeared in the Journal of Aviation Medicine early last fall. Another in the Journal of the American Medical Association, I believe either in Dece... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,600,550 | 2,601,050 |
before it would be unable for him to write? Or if he were exposed to 40,000 feet without supplemental oxygen, how long would he be able to write? Q.How did the United States Army Air Corps equip its high altitude flying personnel for escape at high altitudes? A.They were equipped with an oxygen mask which was attached ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,601,000 | 2,601,500 |
altitude experiments conducted at the Dachau concentration camp? A.I am. Q.Have you had the opportunity to study the report written by Ruff, Romberg, and Rascher, which is Document No. 402 found in Document Book No 2? A.I am. Q.Do you have Document Book 2 before you, Doctor? A.Yes. Q.Would you kindly turn to Page 88 of... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,601,450 | 2,601,950 |
after the subjects were exposed to such a prolonged period of oxygen lack. MR. HARDY:I wish to interrupt you for a moment, Dr. Ivy. May it please the Tribunal, it has been called to my attention that defense counsel for Ruff and Romberg are not present, end inasmuch as this testimony will affect their cases, I at this ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,601,900 | 2,602,400 |
it, insofar as its application to conditions aboard a raft is concerned, so that it was very efficient. We used plastic bags which could be packed in a very small space and which would be used for carrying out the chemical reaction. QDid you ever make a study of the toxicity of sea water? AThe toxicity of sea water, ye... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,602,350 | 2,602,850 |
and I have always been skeptical about the accuracy of that figure, and when I read in the Record the report that certain subjects of Dr. Beiglboeck concentrated salt in the urine to the extent of greater than 2.3, or even as high as 3, I felt that that was due to inaccuracy in the use of chemical methods. QWhat is the... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,602,800 | 2,603,300 |
of sea water daily to drink that they might die sooner than if a person was given no water? AThere is no question about that. QWell, would you refer to the official transcript of this trial on page 8483 of the English transcript? Do you have that with you, Doctor? INTERPRETER:What date is that, please, Mr. Hardy? MR. H... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,603,250 | 2,603,750 |
studying these experiments of Professor Beiglboeck and the charts and records could you tell us whether or not these experiments were necessary? A.They were not necessary in order to determine whether or not Schaefer water could be taken without harming the body. That would be determined by a chemical test. We have set... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,603,700 | 2,604,200 |
the chief of the medical Services of the Luftwaffe is convinced that if the Berka method is used damage to health is to be expected not later than six days, and will lead to death, according to Dr. Schaefer, not later than twelve days. Now, on the basis of your knowledge of the toxicity of sea water, is that statement ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,604,150 | 2,604,650 |
would not survive the otherwise three or four days which they would if they drank whole water, and there are I might say deserts on the sea, so far as rain is concerned. There are areas in the ocean which have no more rain than the Sahara desert, for example. If one were to take 500 cc. sea water or Berka water under i... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,604,600 | 2,605,100 |
experiments conducted on the experimental subjects by Dr. Beiglboeck at Dachau? I will pass up to you, Doctor, for reference if need be the records of the experimental subjects in the two books and if you wish to refer to them at any time, you may do so. Dr. Ivy, to date just what records have you seen which outline th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,605,050 | 2,605,550 |
scientific report in a medical journal?" He said, "No". That was the answer that I expected to get from an honest conscientious scientist Then I said, "Why did you, a well trained clinical investigator, along with adequately trained chemists for assistants, consent to perform experiments requiring a great deal of effor... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,605,500 | 2,606,000 |
that design he followed, chat as the various groups, etc.? A:The general plan of the experiments I think is adequate for a study of water and salt metabolism in the human body. He had one group who received no food or water, I believe there were six subjects in this group. He had mother group which received Schaefer wa... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,605,950 | 2,606,450 |
answer to that question in three or four days. Q.Were the results of these experiments of any scientific value? Dr. Beiglboeck states he would not publish them in a medical journal. Have you anything further to ado to that? A.I don't believe they were of scientific value. Q.Is it probable, Professor Ivy, that one might... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,606,400 | 2,606,900 |
that the patient was given an injection of Coronine which is a heart stimulant. That was on august 28, the day before the cessation of the supposed period of deprivation of food and water. On august 20th he was given some strychnine. On Chart "C3" I find that on august 30th and 31st he was given some Strychnine. Strych... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,606,850 | 2,607,350 |
area of ocean in the South Atlantic where the longest period of freedom from rain was eight days and, when he was in that particular region of the ocean he had been without water for seven days. That was the longest period that he was without water to drink. Q.That death may have occurred in fasting and thirsting subje... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,607,300 | 2,607,800 |
Dr. Ivy, dehydration, of course, is a symptom which would be found in experiments of this sort? A.Yes, In all of the groups with the exception of the Schaefer water group. Q.Now, how many of the 14 subjects were supposed to have received 300 cc of sea water daily for six days or more according to your study of the indi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,607,750 | 2,608,250 |
the urine output for the first day of the experiment. So, on the basis of these records I should say that in the case of subject no. 12 the experiment actually started on the 21st and the urinary output is recorded for the 22nd. That however may differ from what actually occurred. Q.Dr. Ivy, Prof. Boiglboeck points out... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,608,200 | 2,608,700 |
medication? If we refer to patient 37, we find that that patient had a fever during the course of the experimental period. If you refer to pationt 39, who likewise was supposedly receiving 500 cc of sea water daily, sterosundin was given therapeutically. That would indicate that the patient was ill and needed intraveno... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,608,650 | 2,609,150 |
you analyze for the Tribunal just what state of health the subject referred to in the stenographic notes, contained on the back of Graph C-23, was in? A.This patient was in a coma. He was quite sick. Does that take care of your question? Q.Would there be a great deal of difference in your analysis if, in the sentence w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,609,100 | 2,609,600 |
would nave read: "Respiration is flatter, hardly frequent." Would that convey an entirely different meaning to you than the sentence as it reads now: "Respiration somewhat flatter, moderately Frequent."? A.Yes, the changes made indicate that the clinical condition of the patient is better. Q.In the sentence in the 8th ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,609,550 | 2,610,050 |
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