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Himmler, we the two chief ones, your commanding officers in the SS, order this. We take the responsibility and we assure you that you are free from punishment." It was as legal as anything could be legal in the Third Reich. I said then, "I do not understand that you keep it secret. If an experiment is to have any scien... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,170,000 | 1,170,500 |
I said it was not on my initiative, and I had no intention of conducting any such experiment, that I could not let Grawitz carry out the experiment alone. That was not basic research. That is not a bacteriological problem. That is for the front clinical men and old clinical men. If that experiment is conducted it will ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,170,450 | 1,170,950 |
of Heydrich, between you and Himmler, is it true that according to the statements which Himmler made it was quite clear that this was the execution of an order which Hitler himself as the head of the State had given? A.I can say under oath that that was what Himmler told me. I want it to be absolutely correct. I said t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,170,900 | 1,171,400 |
I did not in any way discuss this plan with any of my collaborators, or make suggestions and then left the subordonate to his fate. But this carrying out of the plan was my work and that I am describing is well or as badly as it ran when I am talking to you now. I think that the main security measures were that after a... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,171,350 | 1,171,850 |
time refused to have an internist interfere with my business. Q.Earlier on you used the word Grossversuch, large scale experiment, but in reality in documents submitted by the prosecution the figure of 205 persons occurs which were selected for experiments according to the Grawitz plan. What is the situation there? A.W... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,171,800 | 1,172,300 |
appointed deputy chief because he had all scientific, human and intellectual qualifications. From 1938 to 1939 he worked there independently exploiting the scientific points of the work. I would have thought that an American would understand that one would not overlook seven or eight years of progress and that one woul... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,172,250 | 1,172,750 |
medical attitude. He justified my confidence at every moment. Just because it had been a decision for me, an important decision to take an experiment in a concentration camp away from Grawitz, it was because I went to the concentration camp with my own assistant. Q.Fischer carried out the experiments together with you ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,172,700 | 1,173,200 |
I had taken on this order, received this order and the question now was to make sure it was carried out as decently as possible and that Hohenlychen would stand for that. That meant that I, myself, Gebhardt, would accept the responsibility, and that it was not Fischer's responsibility, is proved by reports ho sent at t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,173,150 | 1,173,650 |
were insane people and God knows what else. She wanted to leave that atmosphere and I took her along as a woman doctor to Hohenlychen. The impression her work made on me, her presence made on me, is proved in the best way from the fact that from the civilian department she was transferred to the women's and children's ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,173,600 | 1,174,100 |
my responsibility and Fischer was my assistant. The word medical officer was Oberhauser. Therefore, we talked about the taking care and the therepeutical effect and any possible incidents, but the discussions, the arguments between Grawitz and myself were such that if there were witnesses, then it wouldn't have been su... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,174,050 | 1,174,550 |
expert opinion. I have neither the right nor the intention to criticize these poor women personally. I am perfectly convinced that they were trying to be as honest in speaking, as honestly as they knew, but I would like to point out that now after three years, and under the considerable pressure of the press and the jo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,174,500 | 1,175,000 |
all these are instructions based only schooling and not cruelties committed by this little woman. Q.Was Defendant Dr. Oberhauser independent as a doctor at Ravensbrueck or was she subject to the instructions from the chief camp and station officers? A.She was the lowest back-room girl in this military table of organiza... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,174,950 | 1,175,450 |
part in actual experiments and operations? A.I can only tell you that if I was there, Oberhauser was never there, or, at any rate, she doesn't seem to be there by recollection. In each group I would look at the beginning and I would watch the decisive change of dressings, and in no case could I carry out more in the ca... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,175,400 | 1,175,900 |
because they were Polish with whom one was working together. The x-ray assistant who was working with Stumpfegger was Dr. Muenster, who was well known to me. There were four Polish nurses working there, so that the situation was that we decided that for the really decisive matters we should bring along whom we could po... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,175,850 | 1,176,350 |
the oxygen which was accumulated would prevent repercussion. Unfortunately that preparation kept the least of the promises; and on the other hand there was a fight for wounds of a nature similar to war wounds or for infections which gave a picture similar to war wounds but which were created in quite a different manner... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,176,300 | 1,176,800 |
to the instructions I gave for my experiments. Once, if a tissue is eliminated from the nourishing process which I will deal with only in part and perhaps later on I shall have to spend a half an hour in dealing with the theory of the cutting off of tissue, but anyway only if there is a partial cutting off some tissue ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,176,750 | 1,177,250 |
??ear it with something not hygienic, and gas gangrene will ensue, maybe in a joint, maybe anywhere else. This was the decisive question in my instructions for the experiments. I want pictures similar to gas gangrene, this mixture of gangrene and not gangrene, that is what I wanted, and so if a serious case history wou... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,177,200 | 1,177,700 |
tetanus needing any changes. We neither artificially created tetanus, nor did any tetanus ever crop up through any accident. Q.These fifteen male experimental prospects we are talking about, did they suffer any permanent damage to their health? A.I have told you that they suffered no damage, and were all right after a ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,177,650 | 1,178,150 |
matter should be allowed to go through and not at all necessary that I should cause an upset. Secondly, he also pointed out to me that these apparently obviously harmless experiments carried out according to plan meant a great reprieve for these people and would be applied to Polish women there, who clearly had been co... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,178,100 | 1,178,600 |
and there seems to have been 700 or 800, I don't know. At any rate they had one chance for survival; namely, if they survived one of my experiments. Was that so impossible an assumption in connection with these women for these experiments? Of course, this question of volunteering - that is a matter of emergency. Whenev... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,178,550 | 1,179,050 |
I would talk to everybody about the experiment, but I do not believe that he meant to say that every Polish woman would be killed in this experiment. That is not what he meant. It was just the other way around. I am sure that Himmler wanted to make an example of 200 women, but, on the other hand, wanted to give them a ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,179,000 | 1,179,500 |
me that the course would have been different. I went in to Hohenlychen with my knowledge, ability, supported by Fischer. That was the guaranty that, apart from three, these Polish women survived and they remained alive afterwards and did not disappear because they might become publicly apparent. I made it perfectly cle... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,179,450 | 1,179,950 |
a catalysator for the germs and to produce obstacles for clear and easy blood penetration and to possibly damage a few cells slightly. In other words, to produce inflammation in the safest and most definite way possible for such an experiment. This is the clearest scientific thought in this sphere. We proceeded in just... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,179,900 | 1,180,400 |
On the other hand, of course, the position is that the surface of the wound can easily be powdered by not its lowest crevice and depth and we know particularly well that sulfonamides have, when employed thus wrongly; caused great damage. THE PRESIDENT:The Tribunal will be in recess. (A recess was taken.) THE MARSHAL:Th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,180,350 | 1,180,850 |
is the impression which the testimony of witnesses gives repeatedly where they have to wait for a time, and I say these are the patients whom I operated on. I assume that was all on the same occasion. Grawitz was able to prove to me that the infection were limited and not of a war nature. And he was able to prove to me... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,180,800 | 1,181,300 |
center at all, because there is this loop of catgut at the top and the bottom. One forgets that the blood comes from both sides. The increased quantity is the focus of infection in the center area and do nothing but delay the access of the blood and limit it, It does not stop the blood completely and this is not perman... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,181,250 | 1,181,750 |
are locally limited which have a certain tendency to develop, which can be dealt with if one is able to operate and sacrifice the muscle. Unfortunately the element of fate stands above all medical action and sometimes in contrast to all calculations; three people died. A.One witness has said that Osteomelitis was cause... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,181,700 | 1,182,200 |
to the lists and curves, it says when they were given sulfanamide when the incision is made, when a second operation has to be performed, when the cast is removed, there is drainage and the counter measures were stated as modern serum was given and blood transfusions. No German soldier and no private patient was treate... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,182,150 | 1,182,650 |
cases save the life of the patient, as in the case of gangrene. As I remember the case histories, the most serious patient had a large abscess on the hip. Probably the corresponding glands had been affected. The infection on the calf and the abscess on the hip -- what can I amputate? One can amputate when the infaction... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,182,600 | 1,183,100 |
together, you probably picked out the worst cases. They have scars without any secondary damage. But they are not endangered from the infection. It is very difficult to say how is the damage judged here. One can leave the impression up to the layman. One can have the patient describe it himself, or if it is to be usefu... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,183,050 | 1,183,550 |
the characteristic of the course of the case according to fate. The most serious case was Kusmirzuk. She was from group 3-A without the gangrene; and, as I have demonstrated, and Broel-Plater, who mas from the most serious group in which the ones died. If Kusmirzuk has twenty-five per-cent, then Plater is not fifteen% ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,183,500 | 1,184,000 |
of these patients were saved by so doing, and it was even so that the joint was not affected. There is not a single case where any joint was in the least affected. Of course, every person has a large group of muscles and if only ten per-cent is destroyed, he can stand on this log, if the joint is destroyed, if part of ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,183,950 | 1,184,450 |
where the infection had to occur at a known place to a known extent, immediately accessible to operation, I believe that those are the three most important things to prove, that I contend I acted decently from a scientific or human point of view. On the other hand I know that I will have to prove these three statements... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,184,400 | 1,184,900 |
she has this healed scar. No damage to the nerves. No interruption to the joint. That is, injuries of 15 to 20 percent, if one speaks in favor of the patient. When the Court considers what the patient had to suffer and how much her total life is influenced, I am convinced that she is the worst of this group and most ar... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,184,850 | 1,185,350 |
by at least ten percent. She has no bone focus. Kusnerchak seems affected more then Dsido although Dsido is more seriously ill. I should like to say that Kusnerchak has about 33 1/3% loss, which is equal to the loss of a knee joint and that is a high estimate considering all she suffered and the cosmetic appearance. Q.... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,185,300 | 1,185,800 |
these Document Books to the office but will bring them back for the Tribunal tomorrow morning and put them on the desk. (The Tribunal adjourned until 0930, 6 March 1947.) OFFICE OF US CHIEF OF COUNSEL DOC. DIV. LIBRARY THIS ITEM IS DUE ONE WEEK FROM: IF NEEDED LONGER PLEASE INFORM THE LIBRARY. Official transcript of th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,185,750 | 1,186,250 |
possible by sending ions through the tissue by means of electrical currents. The direct current between the poles to which sulfonamide is fed, (as electrolyte together with tissue juice) overcomes all barriers of the tissue, such as vascularless callosity, necrosis and lime saturated with fluid. "This method has alread... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,186,200 | 1,186,700 |
carried out under your direction in order to test the effectiveness of the sulfonamides. Was the result of the experiment such that the question which was made in the order to you was answered in the affirmatice? A.Yes. About the value of the results according to its practical side may I briefly summarize and point out... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,186,650 | 1,187,150 |
to some extent the scientific value of this question. It will show that the new will exist true and honorable. I do not want to involve the whole scientific side into this case. However, may I state the practical conclusions connected with our experiments and which are of far-reaching importance? May I take that in con... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,187,100 | 1,187,600 |
??? we maintained a point of view that with these epidemice of gonorrhea which existed at that time, that the previous taking of sulfonamide would have a high grade of protection. Now we proved in our results that it was not so important what individual disease was involved but rather the fact was important what the co... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,187,550 | 1,188,050 |
is natural that laymen cannot know that. However, they cannot say either that all this does not have any value. Around this time it meant very much to us and of all the experiments, which were almost limited to the absolute minimum, through clinical and analogical conclusions, that is to say, that we saw that in some c... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,188,000 | 1,188,500 |
believe that I have already answered this question. At that time I expressly stated that I considered this an important partial contribution, that I only wanted to point out that at the conclusion of the experiments, especially as a result of the fatalities, we finished where the practical question with which had been ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,188,450 | 1,188,950 |
the physicians, who from my school of though are acquainted with this field, are being called on by the Russian broadcasting station to report. I want to emphasize expressly, of course, this is in no way based on experiments on human beings, but on the problem which I should like to be heard on because it is of here. T... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,188,900 | 1,189,400 |
up as evidence on this point more than mine who has never been with Stumpfegger at Ravensbruck and only know these experiments from what he told me, on the other hand she is an X-ray specialist with internist training; and it is so that in order to judge an X-ray picture of bones, there are in Germ??? only two men who ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,189,350 | 1,189,850 |
which is understandable to a lay-man, and to clarify the question which I would never have introduced in this trial if words like the 'removal of splinters', 'nerve regeneration' and the 'breaking of bones' and even the other sentences had not been used by lay-man here, because it is so that there is a clynical concept... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,189,800 | 1,190,300 |
knew that this process was going on which was perfectly sufficient for the procedure. Now Stompfegger had that idea, which did not originate with him. He takes the same cigar, which has been smoked to the end and which for the part consists of ashes which still has some of the tobacco stub left, but does not put it bac... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,190,250 | 1,190,750 |
danger to the human being involved and will fully heal up again, that for these things a person, who had been insur and a soldier could be forced. That is if I wanted to reconstruct a joint, then the patient could never be forced to agree with this large plastic operation of the joints, because ay big plastic operation... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,190,700 | 1,191,200 |
stated, in his appearance he was the ideal of the appearance of an SS man. Stumpfegger, at the time, accompanied Himmler on his trip to the Ukraine, and I emphasize once more that I do not know the connection there, and that I was extra-ordinarily surprised when Stumpfecker obtained this permission I believe also in th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,191,150 | 1,191,650 |
regeneration of muscles and nerves. Do you know anything about it at all? A.I can only support myself expressly on the information given to me by Stumpfecker. Stumpfecker personally told me, and he also published that, that he only carried out these removals of splinters. But it was only practically used in one case, a... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,191,600 | 1,192,100 |
any basis for that. However, this, of course, was the aim which Stumpfegger was pursuing in his work. If he would not succeed the whole regeneration surgery would be ended. Joint would have been completely destroyed and crushed so that no removal could be carried out anymore. By a free transplanting of one joint from o... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,192,050 | 1,192,550 |
have an infection from a previous time such a transplantation cannot be carried out, that it cannot be directly carried out in the course of the years. This argument between us two already was the subject of two different opinions when Himmler made his usual Christmas visit. Unfortunately, at Christmas 1942 the more se... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,192,500 | 1,193,000 |
cancer re-appeared and in front it destroyed the only support which existed, that was the collar bone and I was confronted by the question, what was the usual solution to amoutate the arm, or to irradiate the patient and let him die in the course of his cancerous growth. At that time and for this I shall take the respo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,192,950 | 1,193,450 |
course, it would not be to the point to say now that from this I must conclude from all the circumstances that cancer would never re-appear again. THE PRESIDENT:The Tribunal will be in recess. (A recess was taken.) THE MARSHAL:Persons in the court room will please find their seats. The Tribunal is again in session. BY ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,193,400 | 1,193,900 |
had relatives in Switzerland so that the facts relating to all our experiments became known. In fact, I had never wanted them kept secret anyway. The camp commandant at that period had made a suggestion that these experimental persons should be transferred elsewhere, and I suggested, and I think actually succeeded in s... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,193,850 | 1,194,350 |
are surely two matters dealt with by Stumpfegger. I am sure that both originate from October and in that case it is accurately described at the end what course the operation took similar to what I described before, and that there was complete recovery. Sokulska says that merely a weak ankle bone remained and Mrs. Baj s... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,194,300 | 1,194,800 |
These were the camp medical officers of the period, all three of whom are unknown to me. Mrs. Maczka in her written deposition speaks about the fact that there were scientific experiments made by Dr. Drommer. Her conclusion that I would have to know about them or approve of them is quite wrong. During that period I was... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,194,750 | 1,195,250 |
affair, and once Stumpfegger is not being allowed to talk. If anyone was clear from the beginning, contrary to many other people that at one stage would have to report about these matters, it was I. I wrote to Grawitz, I insisted in spite of all objections and difficulties that contacts in foreign countries should be t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,195,200 | 1,195,700 |
year I have been asked how the publication happened and I gave the same response as I am giving now. I mentioned as the President, Professor Rostock and I said that I believe that with this person the whole matter must have been discussed. At the end, Rostock pointed out to me, "This is erroneous, since at that time th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,195,650 | 1,196,150 |
a well recognized and understood distinction between those types cf experiments which might be denominated as general experiments and those types of experiments which might be denominated special experiments? In other words, on considering the matter of medical experiments, is there in the field of German medicine a we... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,196,100 | 1,196,600 |
to speak about sulfonamide experiments," and glance over the question. My reason was to point it out clearly and unmistakably. BY DR. SEIDL: QWitness, during this Congress Defendant Dr. Fischer then talked about the results of the sulfonamide experiments. You yourself had spoken the introductory words to Dr. Fischer's ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,196,550 | 1,197,050 |
want to repeat this--the program showed the subject 'Special Experiments.' I don't think I had exchanged greetings with Rostock because I was just coming from Hohenlychen, and there was the introductory speech made by Mr. Handloser, and then according to the program Fischer was supposed to speak. Purely scientifically ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,197,000 | 1,197,500 |
enough? That was my introduction. And then the lecture began. And it was becoming clear from this story, which I might emphasize right now, that this completed experiment had been carried out on 75 people. We had three curves, large charts, filling the entire wall behind us, and recognizable. We were to being with Grou... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,197,450 | 1,197,950 |
why I had been so long-winded before hand, speaking of abscesses--whether this was correct as directives and basic points. This was the situation and the procedure according to the best of my recollection and I think that Fischer will give the very same story in his principle points. BY JUDGE SEBRING: QCan you recollec... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,197,900 | 1,198,400 |
by Handloser amounting to about six or eight lines which was an extract from our final results. These books were then sent through official channesl in such a way as described by Handloser about six months later together with the complete contents of all the lectures given during this congress, or, at least, the import... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,198,350 | 1,198,850 |
more critically. "Schoercher" -- also a professor of surgery --"considers the effect of tincture of iodine, rivanol or phenol camphor to be better. "Bochler" -- professor of surgery from Vienna states that "3.7% wound complications were observed in the Vienna Accident Hospital offer the use of sulfonamides, before thei... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,198,800 | 1,199,300 |
complete to with all the diagrams or partly, at least, probably has reached the hands of the Prosecution. The realization of these experiments took place without any participation of the German Armed Forces. There was this direct order according to the description which I have given and within the responsibilities whic... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,199,250 | 1,199,750 |
others spoke more or less about the pathological and clinical and pharmacological part, but, of course, I must also add and mention that as far as these completed experiments which were submitted to criticism were concerned, no one did raise any criticism to the effect that they were scientifically speaking without val... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,199,700 | 1,200,200 |
who hadn't met during discussions, and to my recollection, the situation was that each participant summarized his extract, that is to say, the surgeons; the pharmacologists -- all the various departments -- and then they submitted that to the congressional office, the office in the congress I cannot remember, and I can... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,200,150 | 1,200,650 |
experiments. Q.I now come to the fourth conference of the Military Medical Academy which took place in Hohenlychen. The prosecution has presented an excerpt on this subject and how was it this meeting took Place at Berlin and not in Hohenlychen? I would like for you to give a brief answer to that question because the o... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,200,600 | 1,201,100 |
agreement was reached. AMay I say in advance most certainly I did not have anything to do with sterilization experiments, and I did not attend meetings in which sterilization of Jewesses was discussed. The uncertainty and the change in this file note, which was made later on, I believe results from the fact that it is ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,201,050 | 1,201,550 |
attend our discussion. QIn the same Document Book No. 6 there is on page 1 an affidavit of tho co-defendant Dr. Rudolf Brandt. Prosecution has presented this document as Exhibit 141. It is documentNO 440. In this affidavit it is stated under paragraph six, "Dr. Karl Gebhardt apparently carried out surgical sterilizatio... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,201,500 | 1,202,000 |
as far as I can recall, brought this description along from Dachau, and wo discussed it in detail, because on my part there were many reasons to raise the sharpest protest against it. And, may I point out how much it can be seen from this document how Grawitz planned to publish experiments or describe them in contrast ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,201,950 | 1,202,450 |
elements, that appear in nature, also have traces in the human body. Now, if one small element is lacking, then a human being is suffering from some disease or other. Therapy and manner of treatment of the bio-chemist is the exact contrast of medicine as practiced by a person who has studied it at school They make test... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,202,400 | 1,202,900 |
biochemistry; and that the experiment would perhaps be discontinued, mainly on account of subsequent examinations at Hohenlychen, and I shall give evidence of that as soon as I receive the appropriate testimony of witnesses. QYou are also charged with special responsibility in the freezing experiments -- DR. SEIDEL:May... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,202,850 | 1,203,350 |
was the contents of this report? In this connection I would like to add that this report was not presented by the prosecution. AAt the time I received the so-called Rascher sheet of experiments collected for the front, which formed the basis for our discussion, that is by means of dry cold experiments. At the time he m... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,203,300 | 1,203,800 |
was in contrast to the customs of the German Wehrmacht. He recommended joint bathing facilities for the front, like Sauna bathes, and I know a scheme like this would not be carried out in the East. Rascher did not have any experience in regard to the warfare in the open, and then subsequently he carried out the experim... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,203,750 | 1,204,250 |
go and it seems rather improbable to me that I was as kind to him as stated here if I had a discussion with Grawitz and Himmler about this Rascher. Therefore, it can be explained what advance work Rascher did with Himmler in regard to his visit with me an already, since he was involving Himmler, every object was imposs... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,204,200 | 1,204,700 |
very short description of his surgical work. Then he admits that this was only a short intermediary report and while there were previously submitted to Himmler, as instructions for the troops - that; is, as a decisive report - and that ho would work out tho details as soon as ho obtained tho necessary equipment. At tho... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,204,650 | 1,205,150 |
most certainly sent to our field hospitals and to some of the hospitals at home. In any case, I found this blood coagulating drug somewhere and I know for certain that I heard a reason which caused mo to object to this drug from tho very beginning. Then when I discovered that Dr. Rascher was. involved, then in November... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,205,100 | 1,205,600 |
He was to be careful and he was to stay on the subject, he was discreetly given a reference to a specialist with whom he was to discuss the subject, so that I would not do him any harm, and the opportunity is given to him to perhaps discuss the whole problem of carrying out any further experiments. At that time the who... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,205,550 | 1,206,050 |
faults. He interfered, moreover, in diets, and the SS was the only unit which obtained food like the English and the Americans, for example that in the morning they would receive porridge, that they would receive oatmeal, and that they would receive their own mineral water. Experiments were, in part, terrible; all of a... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,206,000 | 1,206,500 |
valuable Polygal and had it used at the front in quite a different manner and he did the same thing in many other fields. It was not possible that we medical men, who had been educated at school, were able to prevent him by objections, because we did not find out these things for the most part; when we discovered them ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,206,450 | 1,206,950 |
sense of a large-scale experiment. Apparently these old bacteriological experiments continued - I do not know that. However, I do not believe either that experiments were still carried out o? ??reigners. That is also aside from the rest of the bacteriological side. I can state under oath that no surgical experiments to... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,206,900 | 1,207,400 |
about in these documents, how could it bo possible for these experiments to be conducted, unless they had either the approval of Himmler, or had the approval of the head of the particular branch of the Wehrmacht, for whose benefit the experiments were being conducted? I seem to be confused about that. Perhaps you can s... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,207,350 | 1,207,850 |
have finished your present answer will you be good enough to tell us about the Ahnenerbe, about its constitution, about how it is run, and about its purpose? A.Yes. I want to summarize my previous answer, that, of course we had clear channels, and every subordinate had to s submit his reports to the next higher authori... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,207,800 | 1,208,300 |
epidemics, but apparently they were Conti and Grawitz. On the other hand I do know how Dr. Hirt came to the Ahnenerbe; and I cannot describe the Ahnenerbe very well, but I want to point out the following factor: It was the whole striving of Himmler, and that is why I gave a description of the foundation of the order, t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,208,250 | 1,208,750 |
of the military medical Institute, and the Ahenenerbe, and societies whose names I do not recall. They were not only unsuitable people, but the actual person responsible was not Sievers, but it was the Director of the University of Munich. I have forgotten the name. QWuest? AOh, yes, it was Wuest, Professor Wuest. In t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,208,700 | 1,209,200 |
finally we had the report about his fraudalent chilrlren, otherwise he would not have been finished. 4145 On the other hand, for example, Ding as I have understand it, I have never occupied myself with this, came to Himmler via Grawitz, that is the agency which confronted Himmler with the question if epidemics. I never... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,209,150 | 1,209,650 |
the possibility that this will be submitted to you shortly. A.I cannot declare upon oath what is contained in this order. I am convinced that this order has nothing to do with myself, but that this order probably is a transmittal of experiments from Pohl to Grawitz. I don't know, but I do know exactly why I mentioned m... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,209,600 | 1,210,100 |
three scholars who experienced those experiments which were carried out. These have been carried out in this regard. On the other hand if you approve a mark of three or four or eight hundred, this idea of volunteers receives a queer background. There are not eight hundred people who are absolutely ready, in clear knowl... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,210,050 | 1,210,550 |
fundamentally approved and recognized the experiment as legal, not if it was a question of private idea. But, then in the manner of questioning, it must be considered here a problem of the State. And, of making these experiments it has to be stated clearly how and where these experiments are to be carried out, and the ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,210,500 | 1,211,000 |
that one should appoint a supervising internist of the Waffen SS for the carrying out, so that in the concentration camps, the clinical procedure should not surpass limits and be stopped. The question on the other hand, which prison is being dealt with and which place to be carried out is with NEBE, and the place is no... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,210,950 | 1,211,450 |
of Schroeder; and that it seems it was sent to Himmler, Brandt or anybody else - stated the result of the correspondence with Grawitz. It is not my signature, and that is not the document that came from Schroeder. Q.Now I come to the conference on the Lost experiments. The defendant Dr. Gebhardt is accused of special r... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,211,400 | 1,211,900 |
it says that, in view of your position as Chief Clinician, you knew about the experiments. Is that true? A.I certainly did not see these pictures because I would probably remember them. When the experiment was brought up, it was a local question and not in my field. They went to Ding with an English incendiary bomb or ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,211,850 | 1,212,350 |
he knew Himmler, and that he met Himmler when Himmler came to visit us, and it is also true that very early, I believe it was in 1938 or 1939, there were the first tuberculosis experiments in the sense of pure investigation. Heissmeyer was involved in this. I know for certain that Heissneyer conducted such similar expe... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,212,300 | 1,212,800 |
aid SS Gruppenfuehrer Professor Dr. Gebhardt in every way in the execution of his assignment. Signed Dr. Handloser, Generaloberstabsarzt." BY DR. SEIDL: Q.Now, will you please answer the question, witness? A.This pass shows what our main worries were at the end of the war: that was to get the supplies through -- the me... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,212,750 | 1,213,250 |
can only say that it was my influence, in part, that caused Himmler to call up and say that in Ravensbrueck, at least in the days when I was back there -- I came back in April -- certainly no one was killed there then. Every one of us was negotiating with any available neutral agency. Since '43 I had had connections in... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,213,200 | 1,213,700 |
then he would remember how we acted at that time. That was the only time when Brandt was present. Himmler hesitated until three in the morning. When I came the next morning the quarters were empty. At noon I sent a letter from me to Poppendick, who was at Flensburg on Doonitz' staff, and. tkmi I surrendered with Ohlend... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,213,650 | 1,214,150 |
the Hohenlychen Board became sick, he asked whether he might take his position. It was only one visit. The next time I saw him at the meeting in 1943. Q.It was in 1942, wasn't it? A.One year after the death of Waldmann. I don't know exactly, the end of '41 or the beginning of '42. Q.You had told us with the Kuratorium.... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,214,100 | 1,214,600 |
that I had chosen as my report the subject "Conflict Between Doctor and Soldier in These Times". I did not invite anyone except my old teachers. Geheimrat Sauerbruch was there, the students from his school and my school, and the Director of the University of Berlin, Professor Kreutz, whom I asked, whom I have applied f... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,214,550 | 1,215,050 |
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