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Mr. Handloser has tried to describe matters as they actually were, especially when one points out to the note which he made himself. According to my opinion, one must draw a clear cut line between the bureaus of the Army, Navy and the Luftwaffe on one side and the field of the Waffen SS, the Organization Todt and the R... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 675,000 | 675,500 |
of a year later and cannot be included in that plan. Q.As the fifth chart, I should like you to look at Document No. 416. This is a chart headed "Organizational Chart of the Medical Service of the SS" up to August 31, 1943 drawn up by the co-defendant, Professor Dr. Mrugowsky. I ask you in this case to define your atti... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 675,450 | 675,950 |
developments? AAt that time in the autumn of 1944 I had to take two basic difficulties into account, one was that the civilian charter was non-existent, that is decrees for the Chief of Civilian Medical Service. It was suggests by Minister Lammers and should have received similar designation, as the Chief of Medical Se... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 675,900 | 676,400 |
maximum dosage. I pointed that out to Himmler, and I also spoke to Professor Morrell. I then left and two days later I was ordered to come back again, and very shortly without any further words was dismissed from that position as Escort Physician. My deputy was immediately dismissed too, and in his place the Escort Phy... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 676,350 | 676,850 |
no purpose in sending wounded people from Western Germany to Eastern Germany and from Eastern Germany to Western Germany. It was pointed out I estab lished connections with Switzerland, and 1 think it concerned my attempt to establish contacts with the Red Cross in Geneva, in order to point out the medical difficulties... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 676,800 | 677,300 |
Servatius) I have one more question on the old subject. Witness, when did you lose your position as escort physician of the Fuehrer? Was it after you had become Reich Commissioner or before? A.No, that was afterwards, shortly afterwards. Q.Was there any connection as far as motives are concerned? A.One may assume a con... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 677,250 | 677,750 |
of the view that although it could then be catalogued as Karl Brandt's exhibit for identification only in order to eliminate confusion, that it should be offered prior to the exhibit you have in your hand, as Karl Brandt's Exhibit Number 1. DR. SERVATIUS:I should like to submit it as Exhibit 1, but it is not available ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 677,700 | 678,200 |
-- I don't have the table of chronology here. May I -- that I don't believe I had that Office for Science and Research yet at that time. The freezing experiments were in May -- they were already concluded in May, 1943. That was at least three months before the nominal decree according to which I was to establish an Off... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 678,150 | 678,650 |
nature administered from there, and I promised him that in April, in the next month, I would visit Professor Hirth myself. Sievers could not give me any further information about it, and apparently did not have any inclination to do so either. Then in the following month since I was in Strassbourg for another reason, I... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 678,600 | 679,100 |
the name of Professor Krueger because anybody who had anything to do with it knew what it was about, and besides Professor Brack, who was a consulting surgeon at that time, should have been interested in the question from a purely scientific point of view. This was my connection with Professor Rostock and with the Chie... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 679,050 | 679,550 |
such death sentences were completely unobjectionable from the legal point of view? ANo, I did not have any misgivings in that form. I said before that if I received such I would have misgivings. QNow, I come to the experiments on transplantations and regeneration. Were you informed about them? AI can say nothing about ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 679,500 | 680,000 |
for that reason I would not have given special attention to that disease. It had no relation together things which interested me more as a surgeon. I know the letter. I was told about it last year. I saw it here for the first time, this year. It says that I had asked Mr. Grawitz to have a Doctor Dohmen carry out specia... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 679,950 | 680,450 |
conduct them, was there for only two or three days himself. MR. McHANEY:If it please the Tribunal, I don't like to get up and object; but it seems to me that the witness should confine himself to answering questions which are put to him by his defense counsel and refrain from making arguments on the basis of the eviden... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 680,400 | 680,900 |
did you have in the typhus experiments? AI learned of the typhus experiments, not details, just the fact that such experiments were conducted, as far as I can recall in interrogations last year; but it may have been at the end of 1945. It is asserted in the documents that my agency and Prof. Rostock were informed; but ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 680,850 | 681,350 |
he said that through Generaloberstabsarzt Handloeser I should go to Stabsarzt Klieve, who was gathering the material, I obtained the permission from Handloeser to talk to Klieve; and then I did talk to Klieve; and he showed me the material which agents had brought him, which showed that preparations for biological warf... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 681,300 | 681,800 |
experiments. You are aware that experiments on human beings can be criminal. Will you please comment upon this? AFirst of all I can say that experiments on human beings have been conducted as long as any scientific efforts have been made in medicine. To what extent they can been clearly classified as crimes one has to ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 681,750 | 682,250 |
very well that malaria experiments must in the last analysis be conducted on human beings. The same is true of the classic typhus and dengue fever and other infectious diseases. In the experiments which were conducted in Germany the personality of Himmler certainly did play a role. I know that he was formerly a teacher... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 682,200 | 682,700 |
negative result because it was not the final thing and the right thing and one must observe one principle, that an experiment must not be kept as small as possible, but it must be as big, as extensive as necessary, so that the result is actually useable. THE PRESIDENT:Court will recess until nine-thirty o'clock in the ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 682,650 | 683,150 |
important, the subject is voluntary and the experiment not dangerous. If I say that the experiment is not important, a human experiment, seen from the point of view of the unimportant, is in my opinion impossible. That is, perhaps, the first point where one could actually speak of a crime. If the experiment is unimport... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 683,100 | 683,600 |
will you please come back to the experiments carried out here in Germany. Would you have been able to stop such experiments? A.It is difficult to answer such a question since it is more of a theoretical question, but nevertheless I do not believe that I would have been able to stop them. If I had been informed about th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 683,550 | 684,050 |
that what the prosecution has presented is correct? A.If I speak of the cold experiments, they were conducted in the year 1942 and the occasion for these was a demand of the Luftwaffe in order to bring aid to those fliers who were in emergency situations. A superior state of interest, which I mentioned before, was no d... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 684,000 | 684,500 |
and later new methods of treatment are developed. It is a typical example of the fact that the volunteering, the aspect of the volunteering mass, is decisive. I know that in the Military Medical Academy practically every officer candidate made such a Lost experiment on himself. The degree of danger is virtually none. T... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 684,450 | 684,950 |
to life. I said yesterday that the mortality figure is about one-tenth of that in the case of malaria. If experiments ware conducted, and I assume that they were now, they were no doubt not dangerous and it is probable that the methods used in the investigations, such as the stomach juice investigations or the liver fu... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 684,900 | 685,400 |
SERVATIUS:Does the Tribunal desire any further information on these individual experiments? JUDGE SEBRING:Assuming the Prosecution's testimony to be true concerning the charge of extermination of Jews for the purpose of completing a skeleton collection and the later extermination of tubercular Poles, will you have the ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 685,350 | 685,850 |
if the malaria could be treated and cured. But the conditions under which one undertakes such experiments is that one assumes that it is not dangerous. THE PRESIDENT:The witness did not quite answer my question. I intended to request the opinion of the witness as to whether or not the practically certain serious bodily... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 685,800 | 686,300 |
of hospitals, since he too was interested in such matters from the Luftwaffe side. I saw Genzken only once. I no longer remember exactly what year it was, I believe it was 1944 when he approached me in order to get some medical officers for the Waffen SS, whom he had asked for from the Army and not obtained. He thought... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 686,250 | 686,750 |
was also located and from the practical necessity of location we came together there. I did not discuss the experiments which are on trial here with him. The last is Brack. I met Brack in 1934 as the Adjutant of Buhle, the head of the Chan cellery of the Fuehrer in Berlin. I had more closer connections with him later i... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 686,700 | 687,200 |
in the third meeting of the consultinq physicians of the military Medical Academy, which was in 1942 in the spring. One morning I spent at the meeting of German soldiers in Dresden. In the fall of 1943 on behalf of the Fuehrer, I had to give Sauerbruch the Knights' Cross or War Merit Cross. There was a second meeting o... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 687,150 | 687,650 |
play a special role in this direction was because in the Medical Zone there was a hue and cry for a new Hohenlychen, and it was apparently agreed to establish a new hospital in Luedenscheidt. Hohenlychen, as a sports place of treatment, in the case of Gebhardt, was a well known conflict with us. As to the other gentlem... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 687,600 | 688,100 |
This was not possible because the composition of this Board was not from the point of view of Profession but of Agency. And it did not in effect play any important role itself, by reason of the fact that from a military research viewpoint, the Society was founded in July 1944. This fact was not even reported to the mem... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 688,050 | 688,550 |
in such a condition that they could no longer take any conscious part in life. These people were to be given relief by death. General instructions about information which he himself had received followed, and ho told me to get in touch with Boehler himself about the matter. I did so by telephone on the same day, and th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 688,500 | 689,000 |
problems earlier. The law for the prevention of the birth of children of congenital disease followed the events. It was written because people with congenital diseases existed. It is a problem which affects the whole world. Similar laws have been passed in other countries. Dr. Gehardt Wagner, who was the predecessor of... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 688,950 | 689,450 |
of Justice, Guertner, in this case. Q.What did the doctors who were involved say? A.The physicians maintained the point of view that the keeping alive of such a child could actually not be justified, and it was pointed out in this respect that in maternity wards under circumstances by doctors themselves in such a case ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 689,400 | 689,900 |
have any knowledge of this purely administrative work, and only now I have had the possibility of getting a certain insight into the existence of all these conditions. In the course of the Polish campaign around the middle of September, a conference took place between Dr. Conti and Mr. Lammers and the Fuehrer. This con... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 689,850 | 690,350 |
witness. In connection with this I am handing you the sketch of the Euthanasia program which was presented by the prosecution. It isNO 253; it is located in Part I of Document Book 14. At the same time I am handing to you a document, it is a sketch composed by the defendant, Brack. Mr. President, the plan has not been ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 690,300 | 690,800 |
will you give us your opinion as to the sketch of the Prosecution, and only as far as the top agencies were concerned, with which you were connected; that is without first going into the details. A.In the Plan No. 253, which has been presented, there is a line under my name which connects to the name of Bouhler; and be... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 690,750 | 691,250 |
then, it was also a receiving agency for everything that arrived in the forms of requests and complaints; and from there compensations and other assistance was granted concerning requests. And then later - during the first Bouhler was able to make certain decisions, and then later the job was taken over by Dr. Bormann.... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 691,200 | 691,700 |
not think that they played any important major part in this problem because that refers to the consumption of food, and the number of patients concerned did not play any important part. QBut now you must have had some personal contact with Bouhler? ALater on I met Bouhler; that, as far as I know, was only in November. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 691,650 | 692,150 |
of decrees from the Fuehrer, I did not have any instructions or directives in any form. I was not the superior in any way toward this administrative machine. Q.Well, who did have this superior position? A.Bouhler; it was Bouhler's T-4, and that was his agency. Q.What was the connection with the Reich Ministry of Interi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 692,100 | 692,600 |
been able to put them into English. Is that true? MR. McHANEY:I understood his statement to that effect. JUDGE SEBRING:It may not have been exactly that, but I understood it in that manner. MR. McHANEY:In so far as it applies to this document, it has been in the possession of the Defense Counsel for two or three months... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 692,550 | 693,050 |
come to my knowledge, I request instructions if I should initiate investigations and how for this purpose the Secret State Police and the State Police I shall find at Stuttgart." Then follows the signature. "By order of, signed Holzhaeuser" Then comes a remark. "Dr. Freisler has discussed the matter with Holzhaeuser pe... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 693,000 | 693,500 |
Euthanasia: foreigners. Thus the order only applied to German Nationals. Another exception--I cannot recall any other exceptions and by myself I could not confirm that the instructions were given to exempt Jews from the framework of Euthanasia as far as the German Nationals were concerned. QNow, what was the procedure?... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 693,450 | 693,950 |
enclosures. These questionnaires were sent to Tiergartenstrasse 4 to this office which has previously been described, the Reich association for Mental Institutions. There the originals of the questionnaires were filed and photostats of them were sent to three specialist physicians who were completely independent of eac... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 693,900 | 694,400 |
there were able to decide by their own initiative and responsibility. With regard to this whatever we have heard here of the action 14-7-13 is in contrast; and in my opinion it does not have anything at all to do with the considerations which had been determined by the decree of the 1st of September 1939. Q.Do you know... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 694,350 | 694,850 |
to 14-F-13 the fact becomes apparent that 14-F-13 did not cover all the concentration camps. But this action only made its appearance in the Bavarian area and for the most part in Hesse and Thuringia. I cannot see any connection between 14-F-13 and whatever represented euthanasia to myself. Q.Now, I have one question a... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 694,800 | 695,300 |
institution in 1914. He was in the army for six or eight weeks and was released again because of his mental condition and retired to the same institution. There the case history was not started over again but the old one was continued, so that it was not clear from the documents alone that he had participated in the wa... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 695,250 | 695,750 |
document already been received in evidence, counsel? DR. SERVATIUS:I assume so. It is in the document book. There are several questionnaires, all with the same contents. I assume that it was offered in evidence. It is on page 209, part 2. A.The questionnaire indicated, gives indications for determining the disease. The... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 695,700 | 696,200 |
persons incapable of working because they wore incapable of working? A.Euthanasia was not intended merely to remove human beings. It was designed to free him from his sufferings. It had nothing to do with his ability or inability to work. Q.Then if I understand you correctly these symptoms of mental deterioration, that... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 696,150 | 696,650 |
safeguard against any excesses or failures of the system which might otherwise have occurred. And besides, because of the necessity for secrecy no other appeal procedure was possible. Q.Did not the physicians involved have any legal misgivings? A.In practice they no doubt did not, otherwise they would not have been abl... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 696,600 | 697,100 |
his disease. Here one can judge only on the basis of the diagnoses, and considering the condition and the prognosis, and only the doctor can reach the decision. It cannot be left to the patient himself. Q.Then what about the approval of the relatives? A.In the case of the insane the consent of the relatives was not obt... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 697,050 | 697,550 |
wildest rumors go about among the people (for example that also people unable to work on account of age or injuries receiving during the first world war have been done away with or are to be done away with). But also the impression, ---- I shall skip a little --as if a totally arbitrary manner prevailed at the selectio... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 697,500 | 698,000 |
of us. The question of legality of Euthanasia on principle. We observed that there were no clear indications in the document itself, and that could be explained by the fact that the Christian Chruch us opposed to those ideas. It was mentioned, to a man like Luther, he was of the opinion that such deformed children shou... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 697,950 | 698,450 |
in the for I have described it. The question at issue was the matter of secrecy. QNow, was the idea of Euthanasia given up completely? ANo, after the end of the war Euthanasia was to be resumed, and was to be carried cut further. QWhat was the effect this stopping of Euthanasia for the organization? AAside from the fac... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 698,400 | 698,900 |
continued to the end of the war? AIn the year of 1914, in the second half of 1914; Mr. Bouhler informed me that a clear execution, which were difficulties of correspondence for technical reasons, was hardly possible, and he asked us for this reason that Euthanasia be stopped here as well. In 1942 since I was no longer ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 698,850 | 699,350 |
this form. I am convinced if this Hippocrates were alive today he would formulate his oath differently. Hippocrates was not a man who did not give life its due. In Athens about the year of 430 there was an epidemic, and Hippocrates was asked for aid. He gave the simple instruction that the patients should be left alone... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 699,300 | 699,800 |
idea of what that is. one hundred years ago was the beginning when the larger institutions were first opened. I remember the name of Ferell of Zurich. But, in reality, these institutions are gold cages. One may well say that life behind these walls is the most horrible, the most unfortunate for a human being that there... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 699,750 | 700,250 |
unaesthetic and unpleasant. One can say that of everything from the beginning, to the end of digestion, but, in the last analysis, this constitutes life and it is necessary. An operation is not pleasant but it can be useful, and the bloody act of birth is certainly not pleasant nor is the end of life, which may last fo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 700,200 | 700,700 |
not actually give an order but that he knew that Martin Bermann would pass on a statement of his in this form and, on the other hand, that Martin Bermann passed on an order or a statement which had the effect of an order. QWitness, must one not assume that both thoughts were united in Hitler's mind, Medical exterminati... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 700,650 | 701,150 |
health. Does her counsel know whether that information is correct? DR.SEIDL (for Oberheuser): I heard nothing about that. THE PRESIDENT:If for reasons of her health the defendant Oberheuser desires to be excused at three o'clock from further attendance of the afternoon session of court she may be so excused. Counsel ma... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 701,100 | 701,600 |
1942 Hitler appointed the defendant Handloser as Chief of the Medical Services of the Armed Forces. In this capacity, Handloser co-ordinated and supervised the activities of the Medical Services of all three branches of the Armed Forces, as well as the Waffen-SS. In this manner, he became supreme Health leader in the m... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 701,550 | 702,050 |
be explained and it was not mutual as far as medicine, Aviation medicine, which is a task of the chief of the Luftwaffe. Thus, like certain tasks of the Navy, in the medical field also were located with the then Raeder, but outside of the field of competence of the medical chief of the Wehrmacht. QAccording to the decr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 702,000 | 702,500 |
middle of February 1944. QDo you know whether General oberstabsarzt Handloser belonged to the Reich Research Counsel? AI know that he was not a member of it. QYou knew Generalstabsarzt Schriber; do you not? You mentioned that he belonged to the Reich Research Counsel as a Plenipotentiary for combating epidemics. Was Sc... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 702,450 | 702,950 |
performed at the clinic in so far as your activities as escort physician to the Fuehrer permitted? AYes, that is from the beginning of the war in 1939. QThe situation changed in as much as you were more or less permanently outside and only on occasions visited the clinic? AYes. QDuring that time from 1939 to 1943; did ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 702,900 | 703,400 |
Document 081, Exhibit No. 6. On the strength of this decree the co-ordination tasks were extended and you wore given the task of co-ordinating the various interests, that is, in the field of health services, and, as it states in the decree, you were to steer these matters according to directives or by way of directives... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 703,350 | 703,850 |
University and because I knew him; any political considerations did not play any part whatsoever. If they had played a part I would probably not have selected Rostock. Q.Witness, my question was not quite answered. When I asked you whether you had any political reasons, then I could also have meant that you either want... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 703,800 | 704,300 |
and with which the just previously mentioned offices did not have anything to do. Q.With reference to these tasks which were not included by these two just mentioned offices, but which you worked upon yourself, did the program Of the combatting of chemical warfare agents -- was this program included? A.Yes, that also w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 704,250 | 704,750 |
with him, which had been detailed and requested to him by some institute. In any case, we did not discuss any experiments on human beings. QWould it have been the duty of Rostock to inform you of such matters if he had come to know about them? AHe certainly would have informed me. It would also have been his duty to in... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 704,700 | 705,200 |
for Defendant Sievers. BY DR. WEISGERBER. QWitness, this morning you told us that you saw the Defendant Sievers one single time and that you spoke to him then; is that correct? AYes. QDid you know his official position? ANo, I did not know his official position. QDid you know that an institute for military science and ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 705,150 | 705,650 |
once. I met him once, yes. QDid you ever have any other official connections with the defendant Rose as are mentioned in his affidavit of September 1946 which is Document 872, Exhibit 408? AI only had two dealings with Rose, and since I don't know what document you are speaking of I think that we are there concerned wi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 705,600 | 706,100 |
so-called Blitzableiter Committee. This so-called Blitzableiter Committee was known as the agency in the Wehrmacht which dealt with the preparation of the defense of biological warfare. In this file about the meeting of this Blitzbleiter Committee Professor Klieve writes and says that the defendant Dr. Blome made utter... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 706,050 | 706,550 |
matters and that for this reason he desired to separate the union of personnel which existed between the Reich Chamber of Physicians on one side, and the Main Department for Public Health on the ether and he wanted to do that for the reason that this so-called public health office was an express Party institution? AThe... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 706,500 | 707,000 |
of the participating agencies and persons. Did the defendant Dr. Blome exercise any function in this euthanasia program? Was he in any war participating in it? AI did not meet him at all, and I heard nothing about that. QWitness, I am putting this question to you for the following reason. You remember that on the wall ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 706,950 | 707,450 |
that throughout the course of the examination no member of the prosecution or its representatives attempted to discuss any matter with him at any time during the course of the examination? MR. McHANEY:Well, I think that has teen uniformly true, your Honor. However, I can't speak for everyone. However, in view of the Tr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 707,400 | 707,900 |
would like to address same questions to you in that connection, Do you know that in August, 1939, an oral order had already preceded the written decree by Hitler to Bouhler? A.No, I do not know anything about that However, I consider it possible because otherwise this concrete order to Bouhler would not have been given... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 707,850 | 708,350 |
60% against the others. However, altogether, the number of mentally insane and idiots was approximated at one million. Altogether there may have been three million mental cases. Q.How many, in your opinion, of those cases were confined to institutions? A.Of the three million, the number of two hundred fifty thousand oc... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 708,300 | 708,800 |
know how long this rescue action lasted? AIn my opinion and as far as I remember, it was concluded with the end of winter, around March or April. QThen I would like to ask you the following question, witness. By virtue of this decree of Hitler of 1 September 1939, were you and Bouhler given the assignment to authorize ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 708,750 | 709,250 |
a certain Sense, State Organs? I want to repeat the question: Were these physicians whose task it was to make diagnoses, through the fact that they had been given the authority, were they now in a certain sense organs of the State as far as their diagnoses were concerned? AWith regard to the decree they have been just ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 709,200 | 709,700 |
that I have no special expert knowledge in the field of psychiatry. QLet us go back to the Fuehrer's letter of 1 September 1939. That is Document 1630-is, Prosecution Exhibit 330. I will read it to you although I am quite sure you are very familiar with it. It is dated Berlin, 1 September 1939. "Reichsleiter Bouhler an... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 709,650 | 710,150 |
clear at the beginning that we don't want to be quarreling about the use of the words "euthanasia program." I am going to continue to say "program"; and I understand that you disagreed with that use of the word. But I think we understand what we mean. So let' don't consume time arguing about this triviality. Now, are y... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 710,100 | 710,600 |
a condition unfit for the continuation of life -that is the decisive factor. In that connection the question of a physical, bodily pain can under certain circumstances be displaced by the psychological burden which someone will have to bear who is, for instance, suffering from the condition of depression. QOf course, i... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 710,550 | 711,050 |
in this connection are not dealt with in writing in this decree; but appropriate instructions issued by the Fuehrer to Bouhler or to me in order to have them passed on to Bouhler for his carrying out were dealt with in that matter. QWell, I don't think you answered my question. Let's put it in another way. The euthanas... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 711,000 | 711,500 |
the patient affected would have died one or two years later. Some of them might have died earlier; some of them might have died a little later. The decisive point was not that the anticipated year of death from the date of their being found was considered but what was decisive was the condition of the patient at the ti... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 711,450 | 711,950 |
that. I wouldn't say that I had nothing to do with it. The selection did take place, however, through an official agency; and also of course it was to make the difference between authorization and the actual carrying out of such an action. Authorization alone is not the only decisive factor in the putting into effect o... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 711,900 | 712,400 |
-- well, let's see that we understand one another. Were those ten or fifteen men the men who actually gave the injection in the extermination station or herded the people into the gas chamber? Were these the ten or fifteen who were authorized to administer the mercy deaths, or was that Heyde and Nietsche and the top ex... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 712,350 | 712,850 |
which had come from there there had boon objections on Butler's part right from the word "go" and on my own part regarding the secret procedure connected therewith, and I desired to be once more informed about the problems on hand and so I went there on one occasion end saw it there myself. Apart from that I have not v... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 712,800 | 713,300 |
this in 1935 Hitler appears to have said that in the introduction of such a law and carrying out of such a euthanasia program, it was said by him to be a good thing for the beginning of the War. He also added that he was quite clearly of the opinion that in the War the introduction of any possible objections raised by ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 713,250 | 713,750 |
gain of just a few thousand. Since the further arrival or accruing of insane persons was taking place at a very rapid rate, such considerations as I have just described were in any case without any interest whatever to the medical man concerned -- to the doctors concerned. He was only concerned with his patients, not w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 713,700 | 714,200 |
whether he can work and if so what he does. Now, you state that question is not put in there for the purpose of removing from possible euthanasia those able to work, while applying euthanasia to those unable to work. AI understand that. QI then put the question to you that quite apart from the content of the questionna... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 714,150 | 714,650 |
years, and in 1942 I was tied down in the Fuehere's Headquarters where I had no deputy for the carrying out of the program and preparations, and which were mentioned carried out by Bouhler in collaboration with Linden's agency. I myself was present during just a few conferences held by Bouhler but my function was to be... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 714,600 | 715,100 |
of the program, or its carrying out or that I should supervise it from the point of view of a medical expert. I could not have been in control because I was not a psychiatric expert, but a surgeon. Q.Well, now Herr Brandt, euthanasia involves a considerable medical problem; how could a layman like Bouhler formulate all... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 715,050 | 715,550 |
asking you to assume that crimes were committed pursuant to the operation of Euthanasia. It is a question of fact whether such crimes were committed, but right now, I want you to assume that and I am trying to determine who can be responsible for these crimes. I have understood your testimony in such a manner that it l... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 715,500 | 716,000 |
I must repeat that, was not considered by Bouhler; Bouhler was of the same opinion as I was, namely, that the Euthanasia program was not criminal. Certainly if he had assumed that it was criminal, he would not have participated in it any more than anyone else. Q.Didn't you receive reports on the operation of the progra... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 715,950 | 716,450 |
the nature of a trouble shooter were you? QDidn't you receive reports on the operation of the program? ANo reports were made as far as I know, and I therefore did not receive any reports. QI thought you stated that part of your responsibility, as small as it was, was to report to the Fuehrer about the operation of this... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 716,400 | 716,900 |
as set up after Hitler's letter of 1 September '39; is that right? ANo, this Reich Committee had already been organized before. It was only up to the time of this decree it was not called euthanasia but merely a collection of these children I mentioned one case of Leipzig yesterday which had nothing to do with this com... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 716,850 | 717,350 |
there after I became Commissioner General. Before that time I had no office in the Reich Chancellery. QWhere was this office located with respect to Bouhler's office. Was it on the same floor of the building? AIt may be that it was on the same floor. Who Reich Chancellery was a large building amounting to three hundred... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 717,300 | 717,800 |
did not answer it. I assume you were not interested in having every so-called insane person in Germany fill out one of these questionnaires. Certain classes of people were not to be considered, isn't that true? A.There were no exceptions with reference to the filling out of the questionnaire. Later on, of course, this ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 717,750 | 718,250 |
a period of thirty days. Did they fill out a questionnaire on both such persons or one of them, and if so, which one? A.The questionnaires were **rked upon in the same way whether we were concerned with a German or a non-German. Q.I didn't ask you whether they were worked on in the same way. I asked you if they were fi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 718,200 | 718,700 |
designation of foreigners into questionnaires can be deduced from that cause. Q.Well, you want to change your testimony and then say that you did not receive the order that non-German Nationals were to be excluded, that order was given only to Bouhler, and that you did nothing with respect to such order? A.The executio... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 718,650 | 719,150 |
institution. QHerr Brandt, do you realize that the execution of non-German nationals in this so-called Euthanasia order would have been criminal? AThis killing was absolutely in contrast to the order which Hitler gave in this connection, absolutely. QIn the face of your testimony, Herr Brandt, I must suggest to you tha... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 719,100 | 719,600 |
did they photostat the questionnaires filled out on non-German nationals? AAccording to my opinion, no. I do not think they were further worked upon, but I am of the opinion that at the collecting point they remained as they were; so that no photostatic copies were sent to any experts. QIn other words, at the collectin... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 719,550 | 720,050 |
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