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and I shall not conduct it with the power of any police; a bourgeois state might have done that. Certainly I shall use the power of the State and the Police to the utmost, my dear Communists, so do not draw any false conclusions. But the struggle to the death, in which my fist will lie heavily upon your necks, I shall ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 11,700 | 12,200 |
part of the idea of your book? It was written to convince foreigners anyway, was it not? You said so to the Commissioner, you know. SCHAPER: Quite true, I said so; but may I complete this explanation? I said at that time exactly what I am saying now. I wrote this book deliberately to refute the lying reports-and I cann... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 12,150 | 12,650 |
from that article in Document Book 16a, at Page 35, and it is Document Number 2824(a)-PS. [Turning to the witness.] I just want to point out to you two or three short extracts, because I am going to suggest to you that they were perfectly true-this is at Page 112 in your book, I think: "We got to Oranienburg Concentrat... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 12,600 | 13,100 |
you? SCHAEFER: May I ask you to listen to the end of my explanation. I am coming to Dr. Levy now. It was Dr. Levy-and I can give this assurance here quite openly and publicly-who at that time personally asked to see me and requested that these boys of the Jewish social Welfare, who were not at all behaving themselves, ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 13,050 | 13,550 |
of oath customary in German courts, and then had his statements refuted in every case. MAJOR BARRINGTON: I understand what your position is on that and I am sure the Tribunal does too, but just look at one more letter in your book before I finish. Turn to Page 241. Have you got it? Now there toward the bottom of the pa... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 13,500 | 14,000 |
certain period, what he had gained. Well, now, I am going to suggest to you that those weights are so fantastic that they can't possibly be true. Just look down, you will see that you have had some of them printed in bolder type than the others. Look at Hermann H. from Wriezen. Have you got it? SCHAEFER: Yes. MAJOR BAR... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 13,950 | 14,450 |
that without difficulty a physician will confirm to you that within four months a man can gain that amount of weight. In May of this year, I myself lost 50 pounds through insufficient food in the camp. In the course of . ... MAJOR BARRINGTON: Well, I suppose then that these men must have been very disappointed when the... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 14,400 | 14,900 |
taken until 1400 hours.] Afternoon Session [The witness SCHAEFER resumed the stand.] THE PRESIDENT: The witness can retire, Dr. BOEHM. [The witness left the stand.] HERR BOEHM: Mr. President, as next witness I should like to examine the witness Gruss. He is the witness who is to be questioned concerning the people who ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 14,850 | 15,350 |
the Young Stahlhelm, the sports units, and all Stahlhelmer up to the age of 35. (2) The remainder of the Stahlhelm (Kern-Stahlhelm), made up of all members over 35 years of age. Then the Wehrstahlhelm was incorporated into the SA as a separate formation with its own leaders, the field-gray uniforms, and the Stahlhelm, ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 15,300 | 15,800 |
and that, as they assert, they in no wise volunteered for the SA, and I believe in this connection I may ... THE PRESIDENT: I quite understand that, but you aren't telling me, are you, that that wasn't stated in the evidence in the Commission, that they were taken over compulsorily by the SA. HERR BOEHM: Yes, but I wan... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 15,750 | 16,250 |
arrest. There are cases where punishment in the form of police arrest for ten days and longer was inflicted in this connection. Furthermore, the Stahlhelmer were told that by staying away from the SA an order of Hitler's would not be obeyed and this implied hostility to the State, which always had serious consequences.... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 16,200 | 16,700 |
as it did not interfere with their service in the SA. But this promise also was withdrawn very soon and this caused the greatest difficulties to the Stahlhelmer who wanted to remain loyal to their Bund, and entailed many arrests and punishments of all kinds. HERR BOEHM: At the time when Seldte turned over the Stahlhelm... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 16,650 | 17,150 |
of members, who then decided about their re-election. The main characteristic of the Stahlhelm, however, was the carrying on of the tradition of the front-line comradeship formed in the field-that unique, comradeship which in all circumstances demands that "I must give everything for my comrade and help him, always." T... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 17,100 | 17,600 |
tendencies with a more moderate one based on enlightenment, persuasion, and propaganda. Proof that the political opponents of the Stahlhelm did after all understand this was shown in the spring of 1933 when many persecuted members of the SPD and KPD sought protection and aid in the Stahlhelm. They were accepted by us, ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 17,550 | 18,050 |
to the SA? GRUSS: It was doubtless this pronounced Stah1helm training which caused the majority of the Stahlhelmer to resist the incorporation. There were three points in particular which the Stahlhelmer could never understand, and which always separated, him from the SA. There was, first, the autocratic Fuehrer princi... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 18,000 | 18,500 |
of the Stahlhehn, maintain any contact with the transferred Stahlhelmer beyond the settlement of business matters? GRUSS: Yes, I did. HERR BOEHM: Were you permitted to do so? GRUSS: No; I was allowed to settle the business affairs of the Stahlhelm, but I was warned by the Gestapo against any attempt to continue the Sta... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 18,450 | 18,950 |
intended to show that this witness knew the circumstances about the Stahlhelm, surely you can leave that to re-examination if it is challenged. Why should you anticipate that they will challenge this witness that he doesn't know anything about the Stahlhelm? Presumably he does. Until it is challenged, you can leave it ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 18,900 | 19,400 |
that time had severely damaged the reputation of the SA. But they were only groups; by that I mean that it was not-the whole- SA, but only parts of it. COL. PHILLIMORE: There were groups in every town in Germany, weren't there? GRUSS: I cannot say whether they were in every town in Germany, but there were no doubt such... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 19,350 | 19,850 |
know this description. COL. PHILLIMORE: "Wherever the SA was able to exercise its terror unhindered it did so in the following manner: They had indoor battles against people who thought differently. Those were not the ordinary little brawls between political opponents during elections; that was organized terror." Is th... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 19,800 | 20,300 |
and you are not entitled to challenge him about that. If he had been giving evidence saying that the SA was a perfectly well-behaved organization, then this cross-examination might be relevant; but if he has not said that I do not quite see how the cross-examination is relevant. COL. PHILLIMORE: My Lord, witness after ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 20,250 | 20,750 |
I should like to say, according to my recollection, that Herr Gisevius did not exaggerate. There is a good deal of truth in what he says. COL. PHILLIMORE: Now, I want just to ask you about the Jews. You have said that the Stahlhelm members were not anti-Semitic. Was it because the SA was anti-Semitic in its outlook, wa... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 20,700 | 21,200 |
SA fell, didn't it, from 41/2 million to 11/2 million between 1934 and 1939? GRUSS: I have heard of that. COL. PHILLIMORE: Wasn't that because people were withdrawing? GRUSS: No; as far as I can see the situation, first of all after 30 June 1934 all followers of Chief of Staff Röhmwere removed from the SA, and there w... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 21,150 | 21,650 |
any approximately accurate figures for the Stahlhelm after 1934? GRUSS: Do you mean the Stahlhelm. as it continued to exist after 1934 as a Bund, or the Stahlhelm which was transferred into the SA? THE PRESIDENT: I meant the Stahlhelm which were transferred to the SA. GRUSS: Well, there must have been about one million... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 21,600 | 22,100 |
the Central German Mining Company. There I started as a common laborer in the mines, but in the course of the years I worked my way up to a high office position of a large concern. Politically I belonged after 1920 to the German National People's Party for several years. Later I belonged to no party; but from 1920, 1 h... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 22,050 | 22,550 |
a series of questions to which, in my opinion, only an SA man could supply the answers. Did you, during your membership in the SA from the year 1934 until the dissolution of this organization, ever observe any opposition on the part of the SA members who had come from the Stahlhelm? JUETTNER: I can answer this question... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 22,500 | 23,000 |
tremendous increase, that is from the original figure of 300,000 it grew to about 4,500,000 men by 1935; is that -correct? JUETTNER: By 1934 that is true, yes. HERR BOEHM: Then the Supreme SA Leadership tried to reduce the SA since many people had joined who really had no business there, and by 1939 approximately 3,000... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 22,950 | 23,450 |
in order to make a long story short, that by far the larger part of the Stah1helmer who entered the SA in 1933, or at the latest in 1934, were and remained loyal comrades of yours; is that correct? JUETTNER: They were and remained my best comrades. HERR BOEHM: What was the attitude of the Chief of Staff toward the Part... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 23,400 | 23,900 |
you saying that the Stahlhelm, after it has been incorporated into the SA-those members of the Stahlhelm who were incorporate into the SA were involuntary members or were voluntary members. It is for you to make up your mind which case you are putting forward. Possibly it might make my meaning more clear for you case-t... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 23,850 | 24,350 |
SA, its aims, and the SA leaders, especially the higher SA leaders, very well. I do not propose to gloss over anything. A small fraction of SA leaders who had turned out to be mere troopers was eliminated. Even those SA leaders had in the past, during the first World War as brave soldiers, and later as members of the F... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 24,300 | 24,800 |
were paid. HERR BOEHM: How was the SA Leadership Corps organized? JUETTNER: In the SA we differentiated between: SA leaders, SA administrative leaders, SA medical leaders. The SA leaders formed the leadership staffs and led the units. The SA administrative leaders handled the budget, financial matters, and the audit. T... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 24,750 | 25,250 |
the beginning, the SA was made up of former soldiers of the first World War, that is, soldiers and young idealists who loved their country above all. The SA was not, as the witness Gisevius asserted, a mob of criminals or gangsters, but rather, as Sinclair Lewis is said to have written, pure idealists. Many clergymen, ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 25,200 | 25,700 |
Fascists where you can find them," groups were organized which shouted in chorus "Down with the SA," SA members were molested at their places of work, the children of SA members were annoyed at school; there were boycotts of businesses whose owners were SA members, and there were attacks on individual SA men and also o... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 25,650 | 26,150 |
same end. HERR BOEHM: Was the number of the excesses or misdeeds that took place and for which SA members were responsible, a large one? JUETTNER: In comparison with the strength of the SA, these misdeeds that were ascertained were infinitesimally rare, and in addition to that, another point should not be forgotten. In... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 26,100 | 26,600 |
misdeed and was to be brought before a court, the SA leadership would be notified so that they could suspend this man from service at once and, as the case might be, could prohibit him from wearing the SA uniform and even punish him on their own initiative. This principle was favored and, applied in the action of Novem... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Second Day | 26,550 | 27,050 |
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Bamberg, Stuttgart, and, I believe, in Hof, people were convicted who had destroyed synagogues and yet did not belong to the SA. The fact also that in many places SA men upon instructions from the leadership offered to afford protection to Jewish installations against plundering by shady elements, et cetera, created a ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 450 | 950 |
witnesses Lucke and rust could have been interrogated in this Court. Lucke is the person who made this report, and Fust is the one to whom it is supposed to have been sent. Is it customary in the SA, when making reports of action completed, to repeat in the report the order which is being reported as executed? JUETTNER... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 900 | 1,400 |
never have been used in this connection. HERR BOEHM: Does it sound probable or credible that in the year 1938, at a time when National Socialist power was consolidated 100 percent, an order should be given that riots and plundering were to be prevented? JUETTNER: This speaks quite clearly against the authenticity of th... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 1,350 | 1,850 |
matter must be clarified in such a way that there is no doubt about this forgery. For if this report of action taken were true and correct, the SA would be tremendously incriminated by it. THE PRESIDENT: I know that, but the witness has been telling us that for the last 10 minutes. HERR BOEHM: In connection with Docume... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 1,800 | 2,300 |
was entirely out of the question for me, and it was also obvious to me that this property was to be given up to the police offices immediately as trustees, for the Police represented the guardians of law and order, at least in my eyes, and not offices which were called upon to withhold or steal other people's property ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 2,250 | 2,750 |
a member of the Protestant Church and still am a member today. As deputy of the Chief of Staff I was a Church member also. The great majority of the SA men were Church members. Many members of the SA-in any case not merely isolated members-were active in Church councils even up to the end, a fact well known to us, whic... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 2,700 | 3,200 |
prove that this belief of the SA in a peaceful development actually did exist? JUETTNER: The SA truly did not want a war. Hundreds of thousands of former combat soldiers of the first World War were in the SA. These men were familiar with war and its unspeakable sacrifices. They did not want war. For the sake of their c... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 3,150 | 3,650 |
ago the Prosecution placed an affidavit by Prime Minister Dr. Wilhelm Högner, among other things, in my mail box, and since I have no other opportunity to define my attitude as to this affidavit except here and now, I should like to put a few questions to you dealing with these matters. This affidavit states: "As earl... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 3,600 | 4,100 |
to call the witness whom I had provided for that and who is now on the witness stand, so that I might interrogate him about the contents of this affidavit. THE PRESIDENT: No, either you put it in evidence yourself now or else you wait for re-examination. Sir David, I do not know -what all this is about. Dr. Böhm. does... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 4,050 | 4,550 |
men, for these five or six million men and for the many millions in their families, I can solemnly declare under oath that the SA never had a criminal character. Mr. President, my entire life has been guided by the rule that one should stand by whatever one has done, whatever the risk may be, and fear nothing, not even... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 4,500 | 5,000 |
that to the Commissioner? If you would take your mind from the document and just address it to the point as to whether you said that before the Commission, it would help. Do you remember saying that before the Commission? JUETTNER: I admitted before the Commission and I will not deny today, that the SA Group "Sudeten,"... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 4,950 | 5,450 |
that is at the time the report is written, or in the previous few weeks where were they guarding the prisoners then? JUETTNER: This report is a summary of the activity of the SA during the war from the very beginning, and everything of a positive nature-which the SA had also done earlier is enumerated there again. SIR ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 5,400 | 5,900 |
the Organization Todt, and they were thereby withdrawn from the authority of the SA. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now, would you look at Page 6 of the original, and you will see a heading, "The premilitary training." Now, you see what is said there, and this is the second year of the war. This is the second paragraph, after... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 5,850 | 6,350 |
any premilitary or postmilitary training. During the war we did everything to strengthen the armed power of the German people. I cannot answer any differently about this. Consequently, I must arrive at a "no," for what is set down here is something different from what we did in practice before the war. SIR DAVID MAXWEL... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 6,300 | 6,800 |
you quite a lot about the East, but I will just leave the West with this one question. Did you mean by that paragraph that the SA was doing its best to help in the Germanization of Alsace? JUETTNER: The SA built up its organization there and tried to train the men to acquire the decency and outward bearing and characte... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 6,750 | 7,250 |
to do with these matters and the SA did not take part in it. We had no SA in Vilna. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Then we will just have a look at this affidavit. Will you look at this affidavit? THE PRESIDENT: Did you sign this document that was just put to you-this report? JUETTNER: Yes. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Would you l... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 7,200 | 7,700 |
DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, I was proposing to put the main points of them in for cross-examination and show on what the affidavits are based. I did not mean to read them through. From these affidavits I have selected about three points to read. THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Dr. B6hm. HERR BOEHM: Before these affidavits are rea... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 7,650 | 8,150 |
are to deal with the Schaulen episode. My Lord, I have a witness ... I am so sorry, it is my fault, I must admit I said Schaulen; it should have been Kaunas. I will do that, My Lord, I will put the facts in the affidavit and I will only use the affidavits in regard to Vilna and Schaulen, and both the deponents are here... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 8,100 | 8,600 |
the third paragraph, it says: "In December 1943, 80 Jews from the ghetto, including four women and myself and my friend Josef Belie were ordered by an SA Sturmfuehrer, whose name I forgot, to live in a large pit some distance from the town. This pit had originally been dug for an underground petrol tank. It was circula... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 8,550 | 9,050 |
of digging up mass graves and piling up bodies on to funeral pyres and burning them. I was engaged in digging up the bodies. My friend Belic was engaged in sawing up and arranging the wood."-Paragraph 8 says-"We dug up altogether 80,000 bodies. I know this because two of the Jews in the pit with us were ordered to keep... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 9,000 | 9,500 |
view of what he said-Document Number D-975 as an additional declaration of Mr. Gol. It will therefore become GB-598, and it explains the procedure by which the gold teeth were taken out of corpses. My Lord, I do not think it is necessary to go into detail because Your Lordship has heard of how that procedure was carrie... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 9,450 | 9,950 |
SA, if he was working there. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I see. Do you say that you hadn't an SA section, I don't know whether it would be a company or a smaller unit, guarding prisoners of war near Kaunas? You have told us, you see, that you had these units who were supporting the Wehrmacht in these territories. Are you a... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 9,900 | 10,400 |
PRESIDENT: We have not got this document. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Oh, haven't you, My Lord, I am so sorry. It is Number D-968, Exhibit GB-599. I am very sorry, My, Lord, it is my fault. THE PRESIDENT: It is in the book, is it? SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: It is in the book, it is 61. THE PRESIDENT: Yes. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FY... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 10,350 | 10,850 |
the rationing, for which we had taken a census of the Jews. A new census was taken after these executions." And next it says how Jordan told him to go and get 20 bodies of the people he had just shot; and Paragraph 10 says that Jordan asked for 500 intellectuals to work on archives; he was told they were not available.... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 10,800 | 11,300 |
was at work. Then in Paragraph 4 he says that Schroepfer was there first, and afterward Bub. And in 5 he said: "It is hard to judge, but I estimate that there must have been 700 to 800 SA men there at the beginning, but they decreased in numbers later. I knew them as SA because they wore brown uniform with swastika arm... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 11,250 | 11,750 |
Standartenfuehrer JÃger. I do not think the case of the SS is being discussed, and I request that the document be presented when the SS is dealt with, because it has nothing to do with the SA. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, the evidence is that the signatory of this document is a member of the SA. He was acting as c... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 11,700 | 12,200 |
area was a unit formed by the Defendant Frank in the Government General, I think in April 1942; that the SA unit of the Government General was formed under the orders of Lutze and the command was taken over by the Defendant Frank. That is right, isn't it? And you said that he had a special staff for the actual carrying... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 12,150 | 12,650 |
comradeship which we practiced in the SA. SIR DAVID MAXWELI-FYFE: I want to get that clear. You said it was an entirely peaceful purpose in the Government General. Do you adhere to what you have told the Tribunal that there were no other SA formations operating in the eastern territories, and particularly, I ask you ab... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 12,600 | 13,100 |
barns. Then, My Lord, below it gives the booty, and then the next paragraph: "The operation affects the territory of the General District of White Ruthenia in the area of Borissov. It concerns in particular the two counties of Begomie and Pleshtchamizy. At present the police troops, together with the army, have advance... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 13,050 | 13,550 |
were of such a kind. We did not have any Wehrmannschaften there. Standartenfuehrer Kunze was not acting as an SA leader. The SA leadership and organization had nothing to do with these things, or with the events described in Schaulen, Riga, and Kovno. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now, Witness, just do be careful before you ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 13,500 | 14,000 |
that, when workers were obtained, the local conditions were taken into account." That's the first one, collecting forced labor from this village. Now, we have another SA Kommando: "The Prior of Czerna Monastery was seized by members of the SA Einsatzkommando in Novojewa Gora. He was told to remain with the men of the S... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 13,950 | 14,450 |
called in as auxiliary police officials from time to time by virtue of a legal provision. If it says at the end: "In the future SA men are no longer to be used, but police officials," then this undoubtedly means, not auxiliary police officials, but regular police officials. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: But the Police have m... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 14,400 | 14,900 |
been Number GB-603, and this is Exhibit GB-604. [Turning to the witness.] Now, will you look at that? THE PRESIDENT: What page is it on? SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I am sorry, My Lord, Page 132, the next page. That is a report from an SS Oberfuehrer called Gluecks, whose name I think we are not unfamiliar with. It is a re... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 14,850 | 15,350 |
You are always confusing defensive thinking with military thinking. The SA represented and stood for defensive thinking. That has nothing to do with military service or military training. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: And you 'say that had nothing to do with the cultivation of the offensive spirit, do you? JUETTNER: In no wa... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 15,300 | 15,800 |
publicity was to endanger the person publicizing it with prosecution for high treason, if you weren't doing military training? JUETTNER: About that, too,, I have already testified before the Commission. That order was connected with R6hm's endeavors to create a militia, and the details must become apparent from the rec... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 15,750 | 16,250 |
was given to the SA, through the Party. To that extent the SA and the Party were both interested in what was discussed in the so-called Reich Defense Council. 'HERR BOEHM: Mr. President, may I disturb -you for a moment? This document contains a confirmation of the fact that this was turned down by R6hm. It might be wel... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Third Day | 16,200 | 16,411 |
Avalon Home Document Collections Ancient 4000bce - 399 Medieval 400 - 1399 15 th Century 1400 - 1499 16 th Century 1500 - 1599 17 th Century 1600 - 1699 18 th Century 1700 - 1799 19 th Century 1800 - 1899 20 th Century 1900 - 1999 21 st Century 2000 - Nuremberg Trial Proceedings Volume 21 Two Hundred and Third Day Volu... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 0 | 500 |
the Tribunal assume that if it is the desire of the defendants to make any further statements, it will be only t deal with matters previously omitted. The defendants will not be permitted to make further speeches or to repeat what has already been said by themselves or their counsel, but will be limited to short statem... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 450 | 950 |
yesterday showed that the SA were not connected with military matters. It shows they were represented directly on the Reich Defense Council, does it not? JUETTNER: I gave reasons yesterday why that was so, namely, for clearing the left bank of the Rhine in the event which I also mentioned yesterday; a withdrawal of the... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 900 | 1,400 |
appearing in public. Numerically this would amount to 6-8,000 SA men permanently armed with rifles and machine-guns in the area of the Sixth Military District Headquarters., A particularly awkward factor is that the creation of these staff guards relies on so-called SA auxiliary camps (Hilfswerklager), which are mostly... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 1,350 | 1,850 |
of the Sudeten Freikorps in September 1938. It is made by Lieutenant Colonel Kchling, who was the special delegate of the OKW to the Youth Leader of the German Reich. I can give Your Lordship the passages very shortly. On the first page, Your Lordship will see, about the sixth line from the bottom: "There were an estim... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 1,800 | 2,300 |
in a time of peace, when all the defendants have been so anxious to point out to us that no war ever started-that is, before Munich. Your Lordship will remember that I asked the witness yesterday whether the training of the SA in the middle of the war, in 1941, differed from the training that was given in peace. I only... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 2,250 | 2,750 |
from the training-which is dealt with at length and which, as I say, I will summarize-there is one point on Page 21 which I would be grateful if the Tribunal would note. This is apart from training, but I do not want to go back to the document. On Page 21 Your Lordship will see, under the letter "H": "Aids to the prepa... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 2,700 | 3,200 |
of attack, reconnaissance, and every one except the first-no, all of them-training in the use of hand grenades and generally training in attack, in battle, in dealing with attack by armored troops, attacks by airplanes-in fact, that they all contained the first stages of military training which every soldier has to go ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 3,150 | 3,650 |
education. In the Fuehrer's decree, if I remember rightly, it also says "the pre- and post-military education." It may even say "training"; that I cannot say with certainty, but what is meant is military education. Later, during negotiations regarding the carrying out of this decree which lasted until the war broke out... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 3,600 | 4,100 |
of the SA in the war. Then you go on to explain the report m'* eluding clan target practice, instruction and practice in handling and cleaning rifles, as well as shooting on a range in a field, and further, the throwing of hand grenades under assumed combat conditions. Why did you put such an enormous untruth in your r... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 4,050 | 4,550 |
said "the importance of the SA." It is "the importance of the SA Mann." SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Certainly, My Lord. I beg Your Lordship's pardon; "the importance of the SA Mann." THE PRESIDENT: Read the first two lines. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: "In a few weeks, Der SA Mann, combat publication and official organ of Supre... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 4,500 | 5,000 |
any points, Your Lordship, I will be very willing to deal in detail with it. The German page is 22 also. My Lord, that is a report that appears on the top of Page 22. There are five sections which are recapitulated in the sixth. The first is a report of the Public Prosecution Provincial Court, Nuernberg-Fuerth, dated 2... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 4,950 | 5,450 |
the beginning of the paragraph after that: "The events show further that unfortunately attempts are still being made to interfere with the legal course of justice." Then the defendant points to the date of the amnesty. Then, at the beginning of the next paragraph he says: "Especially in the case of Pflaumer, I consider... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 5,400 | 5,900 |
paragraph, be indicated. "But if the proceedings were carried out in this manner, it would be unavoidable, even if the public were to be excluded from the actual trial, that the public would get to know about the events. This would seriously harm and impair the reputation of the SA, the Party, the Police, and even the ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 5,850 | 6,350 |
of Appeal Public Prosecutor. It is interesting, My Lord, and I would have referred Your Lordship to it, in view of what we have heard about isolated acts unconnected with the SA Leadership, that this man Kom was the Sturnibannfuehrer Korn who was on the staff of the Supreme SA Leadership. Now, My Lord, I did not intend... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 6,300 | 6,800 |
is the Supreme SA Leadership. My Lord, the only other one-I hope I can take it quite quickly. Your Lordship will find in Document Book 16 A, the smaller document book, Page 9. Your Lordship may remember that my learned friend, Major Barrington, mentioned the question of the punishment of those members of the SA-1 think... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 6,750 | 7,250 |
overlooked when pronouncing sentence. "A further point appears to me to be worth taking into consideration, namely, the fact that one cannot accuse Jähnichen of having a low character and that, above all, in Hohenstein the scum of humanity had to be dealt with. In consideration of this fact I should like to leave it t... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 7,200 | 7,700 |
Staff of the NSDAP, and, My Lord, the matter then goes up to Hitler. My Lord, Your Lordship will find the report that contains Hitler's decision on Pages 13, 14, and 15 of the English version, and Pages 16-1 think j-r starts there-to 33 of the German version. I' hope Dr. B6hm will be able to find it. That is Document N... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 7,650 | 8,150 |
so sorry. THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps we had better break off now. [A recess was taken.] SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, I have finished with the submission of documents. There are three more questions in cross-examination which I should like to put to the witness; and then I shall be finished with my cross-examination. TH... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 8,100 | 8,600 |
some time. This offense which has just been reported, I knew nothing of until today. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: You knew nothing until today, when you were Deputy Chief of Staff of the SA? Are you really telling the Tribunal you knew nothing about the fact that one man from the staff of the Supreme Leadership had been eng... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 8,550 | 9,050 |
Yes. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: And do you see---4 think it is on the top of the second document-that is the document of the 11th -- the contraction "z.d.A." in the same handwriting as on the first document? Do you see that, at the top of the document, "z.d.A."? JUETTNER: Yes, I see it. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now, just t... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 9,000 | 9,500 |
one thing I put to you. Do you admit that 14 SA men were found guilty by the Party Court after 9 and 10 November of killing Jews? JUETTNER: I learned here while a prisoner about this document in which the 14 SA men are mentioned who are supposed to have shot Jews or slain Jews. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now, you have sai... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 9,450 | 9,950 |
while a prisoner. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: So the Deputy Chief of Staff did not know that 14 officers of his own organization had committed cruel and bloody murders? That is what you tell this Tribunal? JUETTNER: The Deputy Chief of Staff was convinced and is still convinced today that all excesses of 9 and 10 November,... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 9,900 | 10,400 |
homosexualist in Germany, is that not right? ATTTNER: It is not unknown to me that he was morbidly inclined that way, but whether that was Hitler's reason, I do not know. SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, I am sorry, there is one duty that I had forgotten. Your Lordship asked me to put the affidavit of Dr. H6gner to thi... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 10,350 | 10,850 |
this group-I think there is one addition to it, but that is all the rebuttal as far as I know. THE PRESIDENT: Yes; you are not going to apply to call any additional witnesses? SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: No, My Lord; I will not try to say for my colleagues, but as far as I know, they have not. I will verify that at once, M... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 10,800 | 11,300 |
knew the incident very well because I complained about it to the Reich Minister of Justice, Dr. Görtner, in Berlin." And then he recounts an incident of the SS murdering somebody else. Then he says: "The gross excesses of the SA and SS in the service of the NSDAP were perpetrated so publicly that the whole population ... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 11,250 | 11,750 |
of course, to Dr. Böhm's putting away of the documents. We have given, I think, all, whether we have decided to use them or not. Some are -not in the form of a sworn statement, and we were not going to use them. If Dr. B6hm thinks that he can get any help from any document to be had from the Prosecution, the Prosecuti... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 11,700 | 12,200 |
Are you offering the affidavit in evidence? DR. SEIDL: I should like to offer this as Frank Exhibit 25. THE PRESIDENT: Have you any other documents that you want to offer in evidence, or is this the only one? DR. SEIDL: This is the only new document that I want to offer in evidence. THE PRESIDENT: Very well, then. I th... | Yale Avalon (proceedings_vol21): Two Hundred and Fourth Day | 12,150 | 12,650 |
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