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1 | Hello, it's Pumlani Majozi, the author of a new book, Lessons from Past Heroes. This is the Pumlani Majozi show, where we always try to bring you common sense on global and domestic affairs. A very interesting story, big story this week from the Middle East. | phumlani | Hello, it's Pumlani Majozi, the author of a new book, Lessons from Past Heroes. This is the Pumlani Majozi show, where we always try to bring you common sense on global and domestic affairs. A very interesting story, big story this week from the Middle East. | |
2 | The reports that a deal between Hamas and Israel, a ceasefire deal, has been reached or it's about to be finalized. | phumlani | The reports that um a deal between Hamas and Israel, a ceasefire deal, has been reached or it's about to be finalized. | |
3 | A few things where there are differences, they are trying to iron that out. But joining me now is Benji Schulman. He is the executive director of the Middle East Africa Research Institute. He's here. | phumlani | A few things where there are differences, they are trying to iron that out. But joining me now is Benji Schulman. He is the executive director of the Middle East Africa Research Institute. He's here. | |
4 | He knows the Middle East very, very well. This gentleman, and we are just going to touch on the story. What does it mean? Where are we going? What should we read into this? | phumlani | He knows the Middle East very, very well. This gentleman, and we are just going to touch on the story. What does it mean? Where are we going? Um, what should we read into this? | |
5 | You know, is Trump the factor here? He's being inaugurated next week as the next US president, Mr. Donald Trump. Is he a factor? You know, what does this mean? How are things going to unfold? Benji, how are you saying? Are you good? | phumlani | You know, is Trump the factor here? He's being inaugurated next week as the next US president, Mr. Donald Trump. Is he a factor? You know, what does this mean? How are things going to unfold? Benji, how are you seeing? Are you good? | |
6 | Yeah, yeah. And what do what do I'm sure you talk to people in Israel? I got a message from a friend in Tel Aviv. I will read it to you in a moment. But what's what's how do people feel last night, yesterday, today? | phumlani | Yeah. And what do I'm sure you talk to people in Israel? I got a message from a friend in Tel Aviv. I will read it to you in a moment. But what's how do people feel last night, yesterday, today? | |
7 | Because I mean, that's what I was thinking, Benji. And I mean, the message I got from a friend in Tel Aviv, it confirmed that. Because, I mean, this exchange Israel is doing, I mean, in a way, might not really be the best deal because | phumlani | Because I mean, that's what I was thinking, Benji. And I mean, the message I got from a friend in Tel Aviv, it confirmed that. Because, I mean, this exchange Israel is doing, I mean, in a way, um might not really be the best deal because | |
8 | Israel is in a very, very tough situation. As you say, these are people whom some of them, if you release them, they will go and cause another terror again and attack Israel. | phumlani | Israel is in a very, very tough situation. As you say, these are people whom some of them, if you release them, they will go and cause another terror again and attack Israel. | |
9 | And he said, I'm feeling a mix of strong emotions today. I'm desperately anxious to get the hostages home, but I'm terrified of the price will pay for this deal. The price will pay for this deal. | phumlani | And he said, I'm feeling a mix of strong emotions today. I'm desperately anxious to get the hostages home, but I'm terrified of the price we'll pay for this deal. The price we'll pay for this deal. | |
10 | Benji. He says, I'm angry, knowing things could have been different if the international community had projected Hamas and its patrons. Personally, it feels like a bad deal as it will release those who could cause the next October 7. That's what he's saying. | phumlani | Benji. He says, I'm angry, knowing things could have been different if the international community had pressured Hamas and its patrons. Personally, it feels like a bad deal as it will release those who could cause the next October 7. That's what he's saying. | |
11 | So I'm sure, and that's what came to my mind as well, Benji. And I'm sure there could be more people who think that way, that the exchanges that Israel is doing, they are releasing people who could really cause another harm again to the Jewish state. | phumlani | So I'm sure, and that's what came to my mind as well, Benji. And I'm sure there could be more people who think that way, that the exchanges that Israel is doing, they are releasing people who could really cause another harm again to the Jewish state. | |
12 | Yeah, this is the Pumlani Majorzi show. I'm speaking to Benji Shulman. | phumlani | Yeah, this is the Pumlani Majorzi show. I'm speaking to Benji Shulman. | |
13 | He is the executive director of the Middle East Africa Research Institute. | phumlani | He is the executive director of the Middle East Africa Research Institute. | |
14 | Whenever I want to understand something on the Middle East, I do reach out to him. Remember to get yourself a copy of my book, Lessons from Past Heroes, at a bookstore near you. It's also available on Amazon as well. | phumlani | Whenever I want to understand something on the Middle East, I do reach out to him. Remember to get yourself a copy of my book, Lessons from Past Heroes, at a bookstore near you. It's also available on Amazon as well. | |
15 | Benji, so the deal they say it has to be effective from this Sunday. | phumlani | Benji. So, um, the deal they say it's um, it has to be effective from this Sunday. | |
16 | At least that's what we know for now. Things might change. As we heard that from Netanyahu's office, the Prime Minister of Israel, he says that Hamas, they are bringing some complexities, they are delaying the process or the finalization of the deal. | phumlani | At least that's what we know for now. Things might change. As we heard that from Netanyahu's office, the Prime Minister of Israel, he says that Hamas, they are bringing some complexities, they are delaying the process or the finalization of the deal. | |
17 | its citizens or hostages. Now, let's move to the politics of this because it seems I saw Biden's address, farewell address from America. | phumlani | its citizens or hostages. Now, let's move to the politics of this because it seems I saw Biden's address, farewell address from America. | |
18 | Of course, he claims credit. He says this was a framework that was in the works for months under his administration. And then he has, of course, since November worked closely with Mr. Trump, who's taking over as the next president of the United States. | phumlani | Of course, he claims credit. He says this was a framework that was in the works for months under his administration. And then he has, of course, since November worked closely with Mr. Trump, who's taking over as the next president of the United States. | |
19 | The leading report on X wrote that, quote, Biden takes credit for the Gaza hostage and ceasefire deal, while Arab officials claim Trump envoy swayed Netanyahu more in one meeting than Biden did earlier. So who deserves is there? | phumlani | The leading report on X wrote that, quote, Biden takes credit for the Gaza hostage and ceasefire deal, while Arab officials claim Trump envoy swayed Netanyahu more in one meeting than Biden did earlier. So who deserves is there? | |
20 | Yeah, personality that he is. Our government, our Department of International Relations and Cooperation, they call it DECO. | phumlani | Yeah, personality that he is. Our government, um, our Department of International Relations and Cooperation, um, they call it DIRCO. | |
21 | They issued a statement today and they said South Africa will comes the ceasefire agreement reached between Israel and Hamas after 15 months, 15 months of Israel's genocidal. | phumlani | They issued a statement today and they said South Africa will welcomes the ceasefire agreement reached between Israel and Hamas after 15 months, 15 months of Israel's genocidal. | |
22 | onslaught on Gaza after Hamas and other armed groups launched an attack on Israel. South Africa calls for the implementation of a just and lasting peace that ensures the human rights of both Palestinians and Israelis are protected and promoted. | phumlani | onslaught on Gaza after Hamas and other armed groups launched an attack on Israel. South Africa calls for the implementation of a just and lasting peace that ensures the human rights of both Palestinians and Israelis are protected and promoted. | |
23 | The ceasefire agreement is a crucial first step toward ending the severe humanitarian crisis faced by the 2.3 million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, which the International Court of Justice has deemed to be plausibly genocidal. Genocidal. Genocidal, genocidal. | phumlani | The ceasefire agreement is a crucial first step toward ending the severe humanitarian crisis faced by the 2.3 million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, which the International Court of Justice has deemed to be plausibly genocidal. Genocidal. Um, genocidal, genocidal. | |
24 | However you pronounce that, Benji. You know, English people like you guys were excellent in English. They know how to pronounce these words. What do you think of the statement? | phumlani | However you pronounce that, Benji. You know, English people like you guys are excellent in English. They know how to pronounce these words. What do you think of the statement? | |
25 | I think it's one of those statements where you can see again that our government is entirely on the side, on one side when it comes to this conflict. | phumlani | I think it's one of those statements where you can see again that our government is entirely on the side, on one side when it comes to this conflict. | |
26 | They continue to accuse Israel of genocide. As we all do know, they've gone to the International Court of Justice. But how do I, I mean, what is your sense here? | phumlani | They continue to accuse Israel of genocide. As we all do know, they've went, they've gone to the International Court of Justice. But how do I, I mean, what is your sense here? | |
27 | And maybe the most important question I want to the question I want to ask you, Benji, | phumlani | And maybe the most important question I want to the question I want to ask you, Benji, | |
28 | Why do we expect them to help the people whom people of the state, the state that they accuse of being an oppressive state, of being an apartheid state, an occupying state that has occupied and repressed the people of Palestine for decades? | phumlani | Why do we expect them to help the people whom people of the state, the state that they accuse of being an oppressive state, of being an apartheid state, an occupying state that has occupied and repressed the people of Palestine for decades? | |
29 | My point to you is that they don't care, Benji. They don't care about the Jewish people, the people of Israel, because what happened on October 7 was some liberation struggle fights by the people of Palestine, by Hamas. | phumlani | My point to you is that they don't care, Benji. They don't care about the Jewish people, the people of Israel, because what happened on October 7 was some liberation struggle, um, fights by the people of Palestine, by Hamas. | |
30 | most of whom are, of course, from the ANC, so long as that's the mentality, then how do you expect them to help even the people who were victims or families of the victims of October 7? | phumlani | most of whom are, of course, from the ANC. So long as that's the mentality, then how do you expect them to help even the people who were, you know, victims or families of the victims of October 7? | |
31 | You have situations in in West Africa. Um, you have very bad situations in Central Africa as well, | phumlani | You have situations in in West Africa. Um, you have very bad situations in Central Africa as well. | |
32 | but yet you do not Sudan, Sudan, apparently Benji, the Sudan civil conflict, it's it's it's it's much more worse, some have argued, than what is happening in the Middle East, right? The Sudanese conflict. | phumlani | but yet you do not Sudan, Sudan, apparently Benji, the Sudan civil conflict, it's it's it's much more worse, some have argued, than what is happening in the Middle East, right? The Sudanese conflict. | |
33 | Yet our government is invested more in what is happening in a different region, uh, region that has different superpowers who can handle those pro those problems, yet we are more invested there, invested there than in our continent here. | phumlani | Yet our government is invested more in what is happening in a different region, a region that has different superpowers who can handle those problems, yet we are more invested there than in our continent here. | |
34 | Tell me about that hypocrisy. Um, what does it do to our image on the global stage? | phumlani | Tell me about that hypocrisy. Um, what does it do to our image on the global stage? | |
35 | And what does it s say about our foreign policy? Are we rational? Are we what's going on here? Why this hypocrisy um and being concerned more about issues of the Middle East than what's happened happening in the African continent? | phumlani | And what does it say about our foreign policy? Are we rational? Are we what's going on here? Why this hypocrisy and being concerned more about issues of the Middle East than what's happening in the African continent? | |
36 | By the way, I read the the the DECO statement uh earlier, the official statement on the um ceasefire deal. | phumlani | By the way, I read the DECO statement earlier, the official statement on the ceasefire deal. | |
37 | I didn't complete it, so whoever wants to read, you can check on their on their Facebook page. You can continue, they do have uh three more paragraphs of that statement. You can continue to read and hear what what they say. This is the Pumlani Majozi show. | phumlani | I didn't complete it, so whoever wants to read, you can check on their on their Facebook page. You can continue, they do have uh three more paragraphs of that statement. You can continue to read and hear what what they say. This is the Pumlani Majozi show. | |
38 | Uh, remember, I'm on accident Pumlani Majozi. I'm on Facebook, Pumlani Majozi. That's my Facebook page. | phumlani | Uh, remember, I'm on X, it's Pumlani Majozi. I'm on Facebook, Pumlani Majozi. That's my Facebook page. | |
39 | I do have, I'm on LinkedIn as well. If you're a professional, you like to engage from a professional perspect side or aspect, you can just we can connect on LinkedIn. I'm also on Instagram at Pumlani Majozi. | phumlani | I do have, I'm on LinkedIn as well. If you're a professional, you like to engage from a professional perspective side or aspect, you can just we can connect on LinkedIn. I'm also on Instagram at Pumlani Majozi. | |
40 | It seems that he's going to push ahead with a normalization of relations between the Arab nations and Israel in the Middle East. I'm sure he wants to make that his signature foreign policy achievement. Do you think he's going to get it? Do you think he will? | phumlani | It seems that he's going to push ahead with a normalization of relations between the Arab nations and Israel in the Middle East. I'm sure he wants to make that his signature foreign policy achievement. Do you think he's going to get it? Do you think he will? | |
41 | This would be a time when he really cements, you know, sort of good relations between Israel and Arab superpowers. | phumlani | This would be a time when he really cements, um, uh, you know, sort of good relations between Israel and Arab superpowers. | |
42 | Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, where will Palestine be placed in this, right? If he pursues the efforts to normalize the relations between Israel and Arab nations, where will Palestine be? | phumlani | Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, where will Palestine be placed in this, right? If he pursues the efforts to normalize the relations between Israel and Arab nations, where will Palestine be? | |
43 | I was listening to Farid Zakaria, I think, during the festive season. I'm sure you know Farid of CNN. He was speaking from India during the first season and he was saying that it's likely that | phumlani | I was listening to Farid Zakaria, I think, during the festive season. I'm sure you know Farid of CNN. Um, he was speaking from India during the festive season and he was saying that it's likely that | |
44 | Trump will just, you know, push ahead, forget about Palestinians, put together a deal between Israel and Arab nations without Palestine, right? | phumlani | Trump will just, you know, push ahead, um, forget about Palestinians, um, put together a deal between Israel and Arab nations, without without Palestine, right? | |
45 | Yeah. And briefly, we have four minutes left. What are your thoughts on Mako Rupio as the Secretary of State? US Secretary of State. Is he the right pick? | phumlani | Yeah. And briefly, we have four minutes left. What are your thoughts on um uh on Marco Rubio as the Secretary of State, US Secretary of State? Is he the right pick? | |
46 | Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to look for something uh in the three minutes we have. Um that Marco Rubio posted on X about South Africa. | phumlani | Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to look for something uh in the three minutes we have. Um that Marco Rubio posted on X about South Africa. | |
47 | How is China positioning itself in the issues of Middle East politics? | phumlani | How is China positioning itself in the issues of, uh, you know, Middle East, um, politics? | |
48 | And just to get a sense of how Chinese, you know, what's in their minds in the 21st century. Benji Shulman, the Middle East Africa Research Institute Executive Director, a clue-up man on global affairs. Every time I want to make sense of the world, I reach out to Benji. | phumlani | And just to get a sense of how Chinese, you know, what's in their minds in the 21st century. Benji Shulman, the Middle East Africa Research Institute Executive Director, a clued-up man on global affairs. Every time I want to make sense of the world, I reach out to Benji. | |
49 | He's the man to talk to. This is the Pumnani Malchozi show. We'll chat soon. | phumlani | He's the man to talk to. This is the Pumnani Malchozi show. | |
50 | Hello there, it's Pumlani M. Majosa back. This is the Pumlani Majose show, where we give you a conservative, a black conservative perspective on local and global socio-economic affairs. | phumlani | Hello there, it's Pumlani M. Majosa back. This is the Pumlani Majosa show, where we give you a conservative, a black conservative perspective on local and global socio-economic affairs. | |
51 | And I'm saying to the people, you know, we can get things done if we make the right decisions on policy, on family, on politics, holding our leaders to account. | phumlani | And I'm saying to the people, you know, we can get things done if we make the right decisions on policy, on family, on politics, holding our leaders to account. | |
52 | That is the message of the book. Today, I'm joined by the mighty Kevin Lings. | phumlani | That is the message um of the book. Today, I'm joined by the mighty Kevin Lings. | |
53 | He's a chief economist at Stanley, very much popular in the media, very much, you know, very much cited in the media. His opinion, you know, people run after it to get insights on the state of South Africa. Kevins, I mean, Kevin, great to talk to you, sir. | phumlani | He's a chief economist at Stanley, very much popular in the media, very much, you know, very much cited in the media. His opinion, you know, people run after it to get insights on the on the state of South Africa. Kevins, I mean, Kevin, great to talk to you, sir. | |
54 | This was the first year of Ramaposa after they had his party, the ANC, had ousted Jacob Zuma early that year. And then he took over and he was going to campaign and run, of course, to be officially elected. | phumlani | This was the first year of Ramaphosa after they had his party, the ANC, had ousted Jacob Zuma early that year. And then he took over and he was going to campaign and run, of course, to be officially elected. | |
55 | the president of South Africa in 2019. So you and I were talking at a period where it was between the time he had taken over from Zuma and the time where he would be officially be voted for into power. | phumlani | the president of South Africa in 2019. So you and I were talking at a period where it was between the time he had taken over from Zuma and the time where he would be officially, you know, be voted for, uh, into power. | |
56 | And when we spoke, Kevin, I listened to our interview this morning just to reflect on the conversation we had. And amongst the things that you said was that he was inheriting a mess. No doubt it was exactly that. | phumlani | And you know, when we spoke, Kevin, I listened to our interview this morning, just to reflect on the conversation we had. And amongst the things that you said was that he was inheriting a mess. No doubt it was exactly that. | |
57 | You know, unemployment rates had risen under Jacob Zuma. So the macroeconomic metrics were not looking good. | phumlani | You know, unemployment rates had risen under Jacob Zuma. So the macroeconomic metrics were not looking good. | |
58 | I guess in short, Kevin, as we start, given those sentiments and those views that you expressed at the time, where are we right now under Ramaposa? Have things gotten better or worse in your opening? | phumlani | I guess in short, Kevin, as we start, um, given those sentiments and those, um, those views that you expressed at the time, uh, where are we right now under Ramaphosa? Have things gotten better or worse in your opening? | |
59 | during his uh the finance minister said that uh during his uh his budget presentation | phumlani | during his uh the finance minister said that uh during his budget presentation | |
60 | Now let let's talk about the the I I understand the the partnership that you have touched on between the the the government and the private sector because the government has been struggling. | phumlani | Now let's talk about the I understand the partnership that you have touched on between the government and the private sector because the government has been struggling. | |
61 | How were they? The capitalist system, the businesses, you know, outside of government, outside of government partnership, right? How was business? Was it thriving? Was it investing? What were the challenges that businesses faced during the course of Ramaposa's first step? | phumlani | How were they? The capitalist system, the businesses, you know, outside of government, outside of government partnership, right? How was business? Was it thriving? Was it investing? What were the challenges that you know, businesses faced during the course of Ramaphosa's first term? | |
62 | But you are saying that they have held back in terms of going strongly, pushing harder in investing, right? | phumlani | But you are saying that they have held back in terms of going strongly, pushing harder in investing, right? | |
63 | I asked you this question, Kevin, because here's an article I'm looking at here on my iPad from the Mail and Guardian. This is last December, right? | phumlani | I asked you this question, Kevin, because here's an article I'm looking at here on my iPad from the Mail and Guardian. This is last December, right? | |
64 | This is last year. And then the opening line is: The business community initially welcomed him, but for the past five years have disappointed. | phumlani | This is last year. And then the opening line is: um, the business community initially welcomed him, but for the past five years have disappointed. | |
65 | It sort of aligns to what you are saying that, you know, it seemed in the chart that the private sector investment was sort of in the upward trend, especially during the times of Mbega and so on. I'm not sure how correct that data is. | phumlani | It sort of aligns to what you are saying that, you know, it seemed in the chart that the private sector investment was sort of in the upward trend, especially during the times of Mbega and so on. I'm not sure how correct that data is. | |
66 | I was about to ask you, Kevin, you've been speaking about when I sent your comments, you are more speaking about business, and some people tend to think that's big business with big balance sheets, corporates. How have SMEs been doing? | phumlani | I was about to ask you, Kevin, you've been speaking about when I sent your comments, you are more speaking about uh business, and some people tend to think that's big business with big balance sheets, corporates. How have SMEs been doing? | |
67 | Yeah, affects them a lot, KV. And they don't even have, you know, the big amounts of money to spend on security as other big corporates can afford. | phumlani | Yeah, affects them a lot, KV. And they don't even have, you know, the big amounts of money to spend on security as other big corporates can afford. | |
68 | Yes, yes. Kevin, we have 60 seconds. So let's be very, very brief on this one and close off. | phumlani | Yes, yes. Kevin, we have 60 seconds. So let's be very brief on this one and close off. | |
69 | Fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. KVEN, it's great to talk to you again. Thanks for a very insightful conversation. And hopefully, we will talk again very soon. | phumlani | Fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. KVEN, it's great to talk to you again. Thanks for a very insightful conversation. And hopefully, we will talk again very soon. | |
70 | Yeah, okay. All right, thanks, Kaivine. Um, so I will, I will, what I will do is that, of course, I will um edit a bit, um, and then I'm going to post it. | phumlani | Yeah, okay. All right, thanks, Kaivine. Um, so I will, I will, what I will do is that, of course, I will um edit a bit, um, and then I'm going to post it. | |
71 | It's awesome to be back on the show as usual to tackle the most important political and economic matters. Joining me is Khali Kriel. He is the CEO of AfriForum, the Chief Executive Officer of Afri Forum. Khali, how are you, sir? Are you holding up well? | phumlani | It's awesome to be back on the show as usual to tackle the most important political and economic matters. Joining me is Khali Kriel. He is the CEO of AfriForum, the Chief Executive Officer of AfriForum. Khali, how are you, sir? Um, are you holding up well? | |
72 | I'm one of those citizens who are very much concerned about our country. I wanted to succeed. I want us to do things the right way. And you also, you and I share, you know, we share the same sentiment. | phumlani | I'm one of those citizens who are very much concerned about our country. I want it to succeed. I want us to do things the right way. And you also, you and I share, you know, we share the same sentiment. | |
73 | You know, Kalim, one of them, what concerns me the most now, you, as we as we kick off our conversation, | phumlani | You know, Kalim, one of the what concerns me the most now, um, you, as we kick off our conversation, | |
74 | crime in the country, the levels of crime, Kalim, you know, the fact that we in South Africa, when you compare us to Ukraine, which is a war zone right now, there are more people dying here in South Africa than in Ukraine, right? | phumlani | crime in the country, the levels of crime, Kylie, you know, the fact that we in South Africa, when you compare us to Ukraine, which is a war zone right now, there are more people dying here in South Africa than in Ukraine, right? | |
75 | Where they where it's a war zone. We have serious levels of murder in the country, the state of criminality. At one point, this is a few years back, I learned that according to the World Bank, about 10% of our GDP, it's a cost to crime. | phumlani | Where they where it's a war zone. Um, it's um, we have serious levels of murder in the country, the state of criminality. At one point, this is a few years back, I learned that according to the World Bank, about 10% of our GDP, it's a cost to, you know, to crime. | |
76 | How do you see for me, criminality at this point, Kali, it's something that really turns me off. And I've not I've noticed that even on my social media platforms that what tens of people in the country are the levels of crime. | phumlani | How do you see, for me, criminality at this point, Kali, it's something that really turns me off. And I've noticed that even on my social media platforms that what concerns of people in the country are the levels of crime. | |
77 | So give me your thoughts on that and then share with me what concerns you the most in this country at this time. | phumlani | So give me your thoughts on that and then share with me what concerns you the most in this country at this time. | |
78 | Is the government allowing communities to be involved and be um I like your concept, um the idea that as communities, let's, you know, let's take charge, you know, play a significant role in shaping our our communities. But is the government allowing this um to take place? | phumlani | Is the government allowing communities to be involved and be um I like your concept, um the idea that as communities, let's, you know, let's take charge, you know, play a significant role in shaping our communities. But is the government allowing this um to take place? | |
79 | Just sorry, despite them. Now let's talk about because I mean, I've I started with crime and it's one of the things and then there are various things as well in the country, including immigration problems in education as well, the dismal educational outcomes. That's a very serious concern. | phumlani | Just sorry, despite them. Now let's talk about because I mean, I've I started with crime and it's one of the things and then there are various um things as well in the country, including immigration problems, um in education as well, um the dismal educational outcomes, that's a very serious concern. | |
80 | You could also we could you know, be be honest about the dismal economic growth levels in the country. | phumlani | You could also we could, you know, be honest about the dismal economic growth levels in the country. | |
81 | How we've been we've been over the past 10 years, we grew at an average of less than 1%. I mean, I've been having a few economists here on this show, Kali, to really try to make sense of our economic situation. | phumlani | How we've been over the past 10 years, we grew at an average of less than 1%. I mean, I've been having a few economists here on this show, Kali, to really try to make sense of um of our economic um uh situation. | |
82 | So other than so how do we, in your view, at a macro level, right, what are the key things? | phumlani | So other than that, so how do we, in your view, at a macro level, right, what are the key things? | |
83 | You are not an economist, you are CEO of Afri Forum, but you do watch the most important things that we could do to sort of improve the state of our country. You've touched on communities playing a role. | phumlani | You are not an economist, you are CEO of AfriForum, but you do watch the most important things that we could do to sort of improve the state of our country. You've touched on communities playing a role. | |
84 | But some people ask a simple question. What should the government do? What should our government do, right, specifically in order for South Africa to be, you know, to get better? | phumlani | But some people will ask a simple question. What should the government do? What should our government do, right, specifically in order for South Africa to be, you know, to, you know, to get better? | |
85 | In terms of the mother tongue education effects, so uh research supports your your comments and also just one thing to to to tell you. | phumlani | In terms of the mother tongue education effects. So, uh research supports your comments. And also, just one thing to tell you. | |
86 | So, last summer, uh, back in Wazul Natal, I had um lunch with my old high school teacher, he taught me in high school, um, he taught me Isis Zulu, and we he was a language man, he was known for teaching Zulu at my high school back then. | phumlani | So, last summer, uh, back in KwaZulu-Natal, I had um lunch with my old high school teacher. He taught me in high school. Um, he taught me isiZulu, and he was a language man. He was known for teaching Zulu, um, at my high school back then. | |
87 | And we spoke about this, and he said to me, He was saying, Well, you know, Pum Lani, I mean, you come from this environment, here you are, here's what you've done. | phumlani | And we spoke about this, and he said to me, He was saying, Well, you know, Pum Lani, I mean, you come from this environment, here you are, here's what you've done. | |
88 | um, and he said, you know, the language, the language itself, Pum Lani, you know, the fact that people are taught many of very sophisticated subjects in English, that itself is a barrier, right? | phumlani | um, and he said, you know, the language, the language itself, Pumlanani, you know, the fact that people are taught many of very sophisticated subjects in English, that itself is a barrier, right? | |
89 | He was saying that the mother, mother tongue, um, you know, teaching is effective in contrast to you know, when people are not learning in their mud in their mother tongue. | phumlani | He was saying that the mother tongue, um, you know, teaching is effective in contrast to you know, when people are not learning in their mother tongue. | |
90 | So he was supporting your assertion that, you know, part of the problem, what hinders people when it comes to educational progress is the language itself, right? The fact that people have to pursue education at the language that is not their mother tongue. | phumlani | So he was supporting your assertion that, you know, part of the problem, what hinders people when it comes to educational progress is the language itself, right? The fact that people have to pursue education at the language that is not their mother tongue. | |
91 | So I thought he had a good point. He had a good point. And he made a few examples back when he was a child as to how Zulu was used a lot to teach young people. | phumlani | So I thought he had a good point. He had a good point. And he made a few examples back when he was a child as to how Zulu was used a lot to to teach young people. | |
92 | And in his view, that he thought that had changed compared to today, where really English is being pushed very hard on young people and they don't speak it as their as you know as their mother tongue. So he had, I thought he had a very, very good point. | phumlani | And in his view, that he thought that had changed compared to today, where really English is being pushed very hard on young people and they don't speak it as their as you know as their mother tongue. So he had, I thought he had a very, very good point. | |
93 | He believes in this redistribution sort of worldview, you know, that when we have a certain group of people who seem to have more, we should take from them and give to those who don't have who don't have much, at least in his view. | phumlani | He believes in this redistribution sort of worldview, you know, that when we have a certain group of people who seem to have more, we should take from them and give to those who don't have much, at least in his view. | |
94 | He has collapsed our relations with the United States. He must be held, I believe, accountable for that. But how do you see him as a leader? | phumlani | He has collapsed our relations with the United States. He must be held, I believe, accountable for that. But how do you see him as a leader? | |
95 | Mm, yeah, yeah. No, it's it's been um it's been a disaster. Um, I think even when we look at I was looking at the numbers the other day, we spoke about crime in the first segment of our conversation. | phumlani | Mm, yeah, yeah. No, it's it's been um it's been a disaster. Um, I think even when we look at I was looking at the numbers the other day, we spoke about crime um in the first segment of our conversation. | |
96 | Um, the the homicide rate when it came in in February February 2018, it was about 35 per 100,000 people. | phumlani | Um, the homicide rate when it came in in February 2018, it was about 35 per 100,000 people. | |
97 | Uh, it rose during its first term, uh, the homicide rate. This is intentional killing to about 45 per 100,000 people. | phumlani | Uh, it rose during its first term, uh, the homicide rate. This is intentional killing to about 45, um, per 100,000 people. | |
98 | That is just a shocker. You know, poorer countries in Africa don't have these levels of violent crime. | phumlani | That is just a shocker. You know, poorer countries in Africa don't have these levels of violent crime. | |
99 | You know, Kali, I don't buy the view that, or the opinion that for us to drastically reduce this sky-high murder rate in our country, we would need to grow the economy at plus minus 5% or it reduce the unemployed unemployment rate to less than 10%. | phumlani | You know, Kali, I don't buy the view that, or the opinion that for us to drastically reduce this sky-high murder rate in our country, we would need to grow the economy at plus minus 5% or reduce the unemployment rate to less than 10%. | |
100 | Because those are people who argue that, well, we should fix the economy first before we can reduce these high levels of violent crime. I'm saying, no, we can reduce the high levels of violent crime with effective law and order, right? | phumlani | Because those are people who argue that, well, we should fix the economy first before we can reduce these high levels of violent crime. I'm saying, no, we can reduce the high levels of violent crime with effective law and order, right? |
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