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Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Who was the person, Socrates, with whom you were talking yesterday at the Lyceum? There was such a crowd around you that I could not get within hearing, but I caught a sight of him over their heads, and I made out, as I thought, that he was a stranger with whom you were talking: who was he? | SOCRATES: There were two, Crito; which of them do you mean? |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: The one whom I mean was seated second from you on the right-hand side. In the middle was Cleinias the young son of Axiochus, who has wonderfully grown; he is only about the age of my own Critobulus, but he is much forwarder and very good-looking: the other is thin and looks younger than he is. | SOCRATES: He whom you mean, Crito, is Euthydemus; and on my left hand there was his brother Dionysodorus, who also took part in the conversation. |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Neither of them are known to me, Socrates; they are a new importation of Sophists, as I should imagine. Of what country are they, and what is their line of wisdom? | SOCRATES: As to their origin, I believe that they are natives of this part of the world, and have migrated from Chios to Thurii; they were driven out of Thurii, and have been living for many years past in these regions. As to their wisdom, about which you ask, Crito, they are wonderful--consummate! I never knew what th... |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: But, Socrates, are you not too old? there may be reason to fear that. | SOCRATES: Certainly not, Crito; as I will prove to you, for I have the consolation of knowing that they began this art of disputation which I covet, quite, as I may say, in old age; last year, or the year before, they had none of their new wisdom. I am only apprehensive that I may bring the two strangers into disrepute... |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: I see no objection, Socrates, if you like; but first I wish that you would give me a description of their wisdom, that I may know beforehand what we are going to learn. | SOCRATES: In less than no time you shall hear; for I cannot say that I did not attend--I paid great attention to them, and I remember and will endeavour to repeat the whole story. Providentially I was sitting alone in the dressing-room of the Lyceum where you saw me, and was about to depart; when I was getting up I rec... |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: And do you mean, Socrates, that the youngster said all this? | SOCRATES: Are you incredulous, Crito? |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Indeed, I am; for if he did say so, then in my opinion he needs neither Euthydemus nor any one else to be his instructor. | SOCRATES: Perhaps I may have forgotten, and Ctesippus was the real answerer. |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Ctesippus! nonsense. | SOCRATES: All I know is that I heard these words, and that they were not spoken either by Euthydemus or Dionysodorus. I dare say, my good Crito, that they may have been spoken by some superior person: that I heard them I am certain. |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Yes, indeed, Socrates, by some one a good deal superior, as I should be disposed to think. But did you carry the search any further, and did you find the art which you were seeking? | SOCRATES: Find! my dear sir, no indeed. And we cut a poor figure; we were like children after larks, always on the point of catching the art, which was always getting away from us. But why should I repeat the whole story? At last we came to the kingly art, and enquired whether that gave and caused happiness, and then w... |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: How did that happen, Socrates? | SOCRATES: I will tell you; the kingly art was identified by us with the political. |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Well, and what came of that? | SOCRATES: To this royal or political art all the arts, including the art of the general, seemed to render up the supremacy, that being the only one which knew how to use what they produce. Here obviously was the very art which we were seeking--the art which is the source of good government, and which may be described, ... |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: And were you not right, Socrates? | SOCRATES: You shall judge, Crito, if you are willing to hear what followed; for we resumed the enquiry, and a question of this sort was asked: Does the kingly art, having this supreme authority, do anything for us? To be sure, was the answer. And would not you, Crito, say the same? |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Yes, I should. | SOCRATES: And what would you say that the kingly art does? If medicine were supposed to have supreme authority over the subordinate arts, and I were to ask you a similar question about that, you would say--it produces health? |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: I should. | SOCRATES: And what of your own art of husbandry, supposing that to have supreme authority over the subject arts--what does that do? Does it not supply us with the fruits of the earth? |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Yes. | SOCRATES: And what does the kingly art do when invested with supreme power? Perhaps you may not be ready with an answer? |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Indeed I am not, Socrates. | SOCRATES: No more were we, Crito. But at any rate you know that if this is the art which we were seeking, it ought to be useful. |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Certainly. | SOCRATES: And surely it ought to do us some good? |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Certainly, Socrates. | SOCRATES: And Cleinias and I had arrived at the conclusion that knowledge of some kind is the only good. |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Yes, that was what you were saying. | SOCRATES: All the other results of politics, and they are many, as for example, wealth, freedom, tranquillity, were neither good nor evil in themselves; but the political science ought to make us wise, and impart knowledge to us, if that is the science which is likely to do us good, and make us happy. |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Yes; that was the conclusion at which you had arrived, according to your report of the conversation. | SOCRATES: And does the kingly art make men wise and good? |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Why not, Socrates? | SOCRATES: What, all men, and in every respect? and teach them all the arts,--carpentering, and cobbling, and the rest of them? |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: I think not, Socrates. | SOCRATES: But then what is this knowledge, and what are we to do with it? For it is not the source of any works which are neither good nor evil, and gives no knowledge, but the knowledge of itself; what then can it be, and what are we to do with it? Shall we say, Crito, that it is the knowledge by which we are to make ... |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: By all means. | SOCRATES: And in what will they be good and useful? Shall we repeat that they will make others good, and that these others will make others again, without ever determining in what they are to be good; for we have put aside the results of politics, as they are called. This is the old, old song over again; and we are jus... |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Indeed, Socrates, you do appear to have got into a great perplexity. | SOCRATES: Thereupon, Crito, seeing that I was on the point of shipwreck, I lifted up my voice, and earnestly entreated and called upon the strangers to save me and the youth from the whirlpool of the argument; they were our Castor and Pollux, I said, and they should be serious, and show us in sober earnest what that kn... |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: And did Euthydemus show you this knowledge? | SOCRATES: Yes, indeed; he proceeded in a lofty strain to the following effect: Would you rather, Socrates, said he, that I should show you this knowledge about which you have been doubting, or shall I prove that you already have it? What, I said, are you blessed with such a power as this? Indeed I am. Then I would much... |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Truly, Socrates, though I am curious and ready to learn, yet I fear that I am not like-minded with Euthydemus, but one of the other sort, who, as you were saying, would rather be refuted by such arguments than use them in refutation of others. And though I may appear ridiculous in venturing to advise you, I thin... | SOCRATES: O Crito, they are marvellous men; but what was I going to say? First of all let me know;--What manner of man was he who came up to you and censured philosophy; was he an orator who himself practises in the courts, or an instructor of orators, who makes the speeches with which they do battle? |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: He was certainly not an orator, and I doubt whether he had ever been into court; but they say that he knows the business, and is a clever man, and composes wonderful speeches. | SOCRATES: Now I understand, Crito; he is one of an amphibious class, whom I was on the point of mentioning--one of those whom Prodicus describes as on the border-ground between philosophers and statesmen--they think that they are the wisest of all men, and that they are generally esteemed the wisest; nothing but the ri... |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: What do you say of them, Socrates? There is certainly something specious in that notion of theirs. | SOCRATES: Yes, Crito, there is more speciousness than truth; they cannot be made to understand the nature of intermediates. For all persons or things, which are intermediate between two other things, and participate in both of them--if one of these two things is good and the other evil, are better than the one and wors... |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: I have often told you, Socrates, that I am in a constant difficulty about my two sons. What am I to do with them? There is no hurry about the younger one, who is only a child; but the other, Critobulus, is getting on, and needs some one who will improve him. I cannot help thinking, when I hear you talk, that the... | SOCRATES: Dear Crito, do you not know that in every profession the inferior sort are numerous and good for nothing, and the good are few and beyond all price: for example, are not gymnastic and rhetoric and money-making and the art of the general, noble arts? |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Certainly they are, in my judgment. | SOCRATES: Well, and do you not see that in each of these arts the many are ridiculous performers? |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: Yes, indeed, that is very true. | SOCRATES: And will you on this account shun all these pursuits yourself and refuse to allow them to your son? |
Respond as Socrates | CRITO: That would not be reasonable, Socrates. | SOCRATES: Do you then be reasonable, Crito, and do not mind whether the teachers of philosophy are good or bad, but think only of philosophy herself. Try and examine her well and truly, and if she be evil seek to turn away all men from her, and not your sons only; but if she be what I believe that she is, then follow h... |
Respond as Socrates | SOCRATES: Certainly, Critias, we will grant your request, and we will grant the same by anticipation to Hermocrates, as well as to you and Timaeus; for I have no doubt that when his turn comes a little while hence, he will make the same request which you have made. In order, then, that he may provide himself with a fre... | SOCRATES: Certainly, Critias, we will grant your request, and we will grant the same by anticipation to Hermocrates, as well as to you and Timaeus; for I have no doubt that when his turn comes a little while hence, he will make the same request which you have made. In order, then, that he may provide himself with a fre... |
Respond as Socrates | NICIAS: I have no objection, Socrates; and my opinion is that the acquirement of this art is in many ways useful to young men. It is an advantage to them that among the favourite amusements of their leisure hours they should have one which tends to improve and not to injure their bodily health. No gymnastics could be b... | SOCRATES: I will endeavour to advise you, Lysimachus, as far as I can in this matter, and also in every way will comply with your wishes; but as I am younger and not so experienced, I think that I ought certainly to hear first what my elders have to say, and to learn of them, and if I have anything to add, then I may v... |
Respond as Socrates | LYSIMACHUS: Why, yes, Socrates; what else am I to do? | SOCRATES: What, Lysimachus, are you going to accept the opinion of the majority? |
Respond as Socrates | MELESIAS: The latter, Socrates; as would surely be reasonable. | SOCRATES: And would you do so too, Melesias? If you were deliberating about the gymnastic training of your son, would you follow the advice of the majority of us, or the opinion of the one who had been trained and exercised under a skilful master? |
Respond as Socrates | MELESIAS: Certainly. | SOCRATES: His one vote would be worth more than the vote of all us four? |
Respond as Socrates | MELESIAS: To be sure. | SOCRATES: And for this reason, as I imagine,--because a good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers? |
Respond as Socrates | MELESIAS: That is true. | SOCRATES: Must we not then first of all ask, whether there is any one of us who has knowledge of that about which we are deliberating? If there is, let us take his advice, though he be one only, and not mind the rest; if there is not, let us seek further counsel. Is this a slight matter about which you and Lysimachus a... |
Respond as Socrates | MELESIAS: Certainly. | SOCRATES: Great care, then, is required in this matter? |
Respond as Socrates | MELESIAS: I think that we should. | SOCRATES: Suppose, as I was just now saying, that we were considering, or wanting to consider, who was the best trainer. Should we not select him who knew and had practised the art, and had the best teachers? |
Respond as Socrates | MELESIAS: I do not understand. | SOCRATES: But would there not arise a prior question about the nature of the art of which we want to find the masters? |
Respond as Socrates | NICIAS: Why, Socrates, is not the question whether young men ought or ought not to learn the art of fighting in armour? | SOCRATES: Let me try to make my meaning plainer then. I do not think that we have as yet decided what that is about which we are consulting, when we ask which of us is or is not skilled in the art, and has or has not had a teacher of the art. |
Respond as Socrates | NICIAS: About the eyes. | SOCRATES: Yes, Nicias; but there is also a prior question, which I may illustrate in this way: When a person considers about applying a medicine to the eyes, would you say that he is consulting about the medicine or about the eyes? |
Respond as Socrates | NICIAS: True. | SOCRATES: And when he considers whether he shall set a bridle on a horse and at what time, he is thinking of the horse and not of the bridle? |
Respond as Socrates | NICIAS: Certainly. | SOCRATES: And in a word, when he considers anything for the sake of another thing, he thinks of the end and not of the means? |
Respond as Socrates | NICIAS: Most true. | SOCRATES: And when you call in an adviser, you should see whether he too is skilful in the accomplishment of the end which you have in view? |
Respond as Socrates | NICIAS: Yes. | SOCRATES: And at present we have in view some knowledge, of which the end is the soul of youth? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Well but, Socrates; did you never observe that some persons, who have had no teachers, are more skilful than those who have, in some things? | SOCRATES: And we are enquiring, Which of us is skilful or successful in the treatment of the soul, and which of us has had good teachers? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: That is true. | SOCRATES: Yes, Laches, I have observed that; but you would not be very willing to trust them if they only professed to be masters of their art, unless they could show some proof of their skill or excellence in one or more works. |
Respond as Socrates | LYSIMACHUS: I very much approve of the words of Socrates, my friends; but you, Nicias and Laches, must determine whether you will be questioned, and give an explanation about matters of this sort. Assuredly, I and Melesias would be greatly pleased to hear you answer the questions which Socrates asks, if you will: for I... | SOCRATES: And therefore, Laches and Nicias, as Lysimachus and Melesias, in their anxiety to improve the minds of their sons, have asked our advice about them, we too should tell them who our teachers were, if we say that we have had any, and prove them to be in the first place men of merit and experienced trainers of t... |
Respond as Socrates | LYSIMACHUS: But this is our proper business; and yours as well as ours, for I reckon you as one of us. Please then to take my place, and find out from Nicias and Laches what we want to know, for the sake of the youths, and talk and consult with them: for I am old, and my memory is bad; and I do not remember the questio... | SOCRATES: I cannot say that either of you show any reluctance to take counsel and advise with me. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: That is true, Socrates. | SOCRATES: Let us, Nicias and Laches, comply with the request of Lysimachus and Melesias. There will be no harm in asking ourselves the question which was first proposed to us: 'Who have been our own instructors in this sort of training, and whom have we made better?' But the other mode of carrying on the enquiry will b... |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Very true. | SOCRATES: And are not our two friends, Laches, at this very moment inviting us to consider in what way the gift of virtue may be imparted to their sons for the improvement of their minds? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: I do not think that we can, Socrates. | SOCRATES: Then must we not first know the nature of virtue? For how can we advise any one about the best mode of attaining something of which we are wholly ignorant? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Yes. | SOCRATES: Then, Laches, we may presume that we know the nature of virtue? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Certainly. | SOCRATES: And that which we know we must surely be able to tell? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Let us do as you say, Socrates. | SOCRATES: I would not have us begin, my friend, with enquiring about the whole of virtue; for that may be more than we can accomplish; let us first consider whether we have a sufficient knowledge of a part; the enquiry will thus probably be made easier to us. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Yes, certainly. | SOCRATES: Then which of the parts of virtue shall we select? Must we not select that to which the art of fighting in armour is supposed to conduce? And is not that generally thought to be courage? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Indeed, Socrates, I see no difficulty in answering; he is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy; there can be no mistake about that. | SOCRATES: Then, Laches, suppose that we first set about determining the nature of courage, and in the second place proceed to enquire how the young men may attain this quality by the help of studies and pursuits. Tell me, if you can, what is courage. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: What do you mean, Socrates? | SOCRATES: Very good, Laches; and yet I fear that I did not express myself clearly; and therefore you have answered not the question which I intended to ask, but another. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Certainly I should. | SOCRATES: I will endeavour to explain; you would call a man courageous who remains at his post, and fights with the enemy? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: How flying? | SOCRATES: And so should I; but what would you say of another man, who fights flying, instead of remaining? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Yes, Socrates, and there Homer is right: for he was speaking of chariots, as you were speaking of the Scythian cavalry, who have that way of fighting; but the heavy-armed Greek fights, as I say, remaining in his rank. | SOCRATES: Why, as the Scythians are said to fight, flying as well as pursuing; and as Homer says in praise of the horses of Aeneas, that they knew 'how to pursue, and fly quickly hither and thither'; and he passes an encomium on Aeneas himself, as having a knowledge of fear or flight, and calls him 'an author of fear o... |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: That is true. | SOCRATES: And yet, Laches, you must except the Lacedaemonians at Plataea, who, when they came upon the light shields of the Persians, are said not to have been willing to stand and fight, and to have fled; but when the ranks of the Persians were broken, they turned upon them like cavalry, and won the battle of Plataea. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Certainly, Socrates. | SOCRATES: That was my meaning when I said that I was to blame in having put my question badly, and that this was the reason of your answering badly. For I meant to ask you not only about the courage of heavy-armed soldiers, but about the courage of cavalry and every other style of soldier; and not only who are courageo... |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Very true. | SOCRATES: And all these are courageous, but some have courage in pleasures, and some in pains: some in desires, and some in fears, and some are cowards under the same conditions, as I should imagine. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Not over well. | SOCRATES: Now I was asking about courage and cowardice in general. And I will begin with courage, and once more ask, What is that common quality, which is the same in all these cases, and which is called courage? Do you now understand what I mean? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Quite true. | SOCRATES: I mean this: As I might ask what is that quality which is called quickness, and which is found in running, in playing the lyre, in speaking, in learning, and in many other similar actions, or rather which we possess in nearly every action that is worth mentioning of arms, legs, mouth, voice, mind;--would you ... |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: You would be quite correct. | SOCRATES: And suppose I were to be asked by some one: What is that common quality, Socrates, which, in all these uses of the word, you call quickness? I should say the quality which accomplishes much in a little time--whether in running, speaking, or in any other sort of action. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: I should say that courage is a sort of endurance of the soul, if I am to speak of the universal nature which pervades them all. | SOCRATES: And now, Laches, do you try and tell me in like manner, What is that common quality which is called courage, and which includes all the various uses of the term when applied both to pleasure and pain, and in all the cases to which I was just now referring? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Most noble, certainly. | SOCRATES: But that is what we must do if we are to answer the question. And yet I cannot say that every kind of endurance is, in my opinion, to be deemed courage. Hear my reason: I am sure, Laches, that you would consider courage to be a very noble quality. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Very noble. | SOCRATES: And you would say that a wise endurance is also good and noble? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: True. | SOCRATES: But what would you say of a foolish endurance? Is not that, on the other hand, to be regarded as evil and hurtful? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: I ought not to say that, Socrates. | SOCRATES: And is anything noble which is evil and hurtful? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: You are right. | SOCRATES: Then you would not admit that sort of endurance to be courage--for it is not noble, but courage is noble? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: True. | SOCRATES: Then, according to you, only the wise endurance is courage? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Assuredly not. | SOCRATES: But as to the epithet 'wise,'--wise in what? In all things small as well as great? For example, if a man shows the quality of endurance in spending his money wisely, knowing that by spending he will acquire more in the end, do you call him courageous? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: No; that is not courage at all, any more than the last. | SOCRATES: Or, for example, if a man is a physician, and his son, or some patient of his, has inflammation of the lungs, and begs that he may be allowed to eat or drink something, and the other is firm and refuses; is that courage? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: I should say that the latter, Socrates, was the braver. | SOCRATES: Again, take the case of one who endures in war, and is willing to fight, and wisely calculates and knows that others will help him, and that there will be fewer and inferior men against him than there are with him; and suppose that he has also advantages of position; would you say of such a one who endures wi... |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: That is true. | SOCRATES: But, surely, this is a foolish endurance in comparison with the other? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: So I should say. | SOCRATES: Then you would say that he who in an engagement of cavalry endures, having the knowledge of horsemanship, is not so courageous as he who endures, having no such knowledge? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: True. | SOCRATES: And he who endures, having a knowledge of the use of the sling, or the bow, or of any other art, is not so courageous as he who endures, not having such a knowledge? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Why, Socrates, what else can a man say? | SOCRATES: And he who descends into a well, and dives, and holds out in this or any similar action, having no knowledge of diving, or the like, is, as you would say, more courageous than those who have this knowledge? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: But that is what I do think. | SOCRATES: Nothing, if that be what he thinks. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: That is true. | SOCRATES: And yet men who thus run risks and endure are foolish, Laches, in comparison of those who do the same things, having the skill to do them. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Quite true. | SOCRATES: But foolish boldness and endurance appeared before to be base and hurtful to us. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: True. | SOCRATES: Whereas courage was acknowledged to be a noble quality. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Very true. | SOCRATES: And now on the contrary we are saying that the foolish endurance, which was before held in dishonour, is courage. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Indeed, Socrates, I am sure that we are not right. | SOCRATES: And are we right in saying so? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: That is most true. | SOCRATES: Then according to your statement, you and I, Laches, are not attuned to the Dorian mode, which is a harmony of words and deeds; for our deeds are not in accordance with our words. Any one would say that we had courage who saw us in action, but not, I imagine, he who heard us talking about courage just now. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Quite the reverse. | SOCRATES: And is this condition of ours satisfactory? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: To what extent and what principle do you mean? | SOCRATES: Suppose, however, that we admit the principle of which we are speaking to a certain extent. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: I am ready to go on, Socrates; and yet I am unused to investigations of this sort. But the spirit of controversy has been aroused in me by what has been said; and I am really grieved at being thus unable to express my meaning. For I fancy that I do know the nature of courage; but, somehow or other, she has slip... | SOCRATES: The principle of endurance. We too must endure and persevere in the enquiry, and then courage will not laugh at our faint-heartedness in searching for courage; which after all may, very likely, be endurance. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Certainly, he should. | SOCRATES: But, my dear friend, should not the good sportsman follow the track, and not be lazy? |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: I should like that. | SOCRATES: And shall we invite Nicias to join us? he may be better at the sport than we are. What do you say? |
Respond as Socrates | NICIAS: I have been thinking, Socrates, that you and Laches are not defining courage in the right way; for you have forgotten an excellent saying which I have heard from your own lips. | SOCRATES: Come then, Nicias, and do what you can to help your friends, who are tossing on the waves of argument, and at the last gasp: you see our extremity, and may save us and also settle your own opinion, if you will tell us what you think about courage. |
Respond as Socrates | NICIAS: I have often heard you say that 'Every man is good in that in which he is wise, and bad in that in which he is unwise.' | SOCRATES: What is it, Nicias? |
Respond as Socrates | NICIAS: And therefore if the brave man is good, he is also wise. | SOCRATES: That is certainly true, Nicias. |
Respond as Socrates | LACHES: Yes, I hear him, but I do not very well understand him. | SOCRATES: Do you hear him, Laches? |
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