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Such measures are probably counterproductive because it will just make it less likely than Putin will give up and instead will fight to the bitter end.
Of course such charges could also be negotiated away in order to try to get Putin to give up. Basically if he quits he can go into exile. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Where was this proposal when the Bush administration was invading Iraq? | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
No one complains when the Power Rangers destroys the aliens with the Megazord. Good guys get a free pass | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Is Germany going to go into Russia and bring these people to justice?
The answer is no. This is just (empty) political theatre. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Germany going into Russia is probably the only way Putin could actually still win this war | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Finally, someone grew a pair! | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
If you didt noticed putin doesn give a fuck | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Russia is still one of the Great Powers. Nobody will go to arrest him without taking a nuke to the face. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Huh? It's a regional power at best. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
What else are there? The US and China are the only Superpowers. The only Great Powers of Europe that remain are because of their militaries including nukes. It is why Germany is no more a great power, and it had no colonies anymore. The UK has its possessions, so do France, and Russia its Near Abroad. Everyone ... | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Oh now there’s consequences? So before now there were no consequences? | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Now if only Germany stopped stalling and blocking others from delivering equipment Ukraine needs to make it happen that would be great. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
That'll show him /s | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
LOL. You let him get away with Crimea. Let's stop play acting. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Must he?... | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Criminal ad hoc tribunals are a legal aberration that are prohited by good reason at a national level by most democratic constitutions.
It's time to give the International Criminal Court, that was made to prosecute this kind of thing, actual jurisdiction over the world and a way to effectively enforce their judgemen... | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
They have Jurisdiction in Ukraine, from a Jurisdictional standpoint it isn't a problem really as Ukraine consented to ICC Jurisdiction. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
But not Russia, even if the country came under new management, I have a hard time believing they would allow this.
Can see someone pulling an Eichmann on them tho. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Better give tanks to Ukrainians. If Ukraine loose, forget tribunal. Mean time German FM can do something more useful. For example play golf. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
This aggression will not stand, man! | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
By the time the debate rages 100 more lives will be lost and thousands will be left in the freezing weather. The priority should be to to stop this .whatever that takes . It is in no one's interest to continue this war. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
All for it. But while we're at it, can we also work on the backlog? Russia's not the first nation to go on unprovoked killing sprees since WW2. Making absolutely sure any tribunal prosecuting those responsible for committing wars of aggression and expansion to increase spheres of influence is seen as utterly imparti... | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Russia coming with an "Hague Invasion Act" bootleg soon^TM | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Omg she is stunningly beautiful | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
There should be no way this war ends and Russia isn’t completely isolated from normal world society until change occurs, or the current leadership is prosecuted. Meaning for me anyway, that cannot leave Russian territory without the threat of being arrested in nearly every country.
Unfortunately the Russian people d... | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Good!!! | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
This is all trump's fault. He's the most recent and successful LIAR there's been. He lied his way through the presidency, treated putin like a god, made fake news and disinformation mainstream and almost stole an election he was blown away in.
putin watched him and realized he can totally bs his way through anythin... | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
A dumb idea. He'll have nothing to lose by then. Also, these dicks now go to The Hague. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
I personally would like Putin to listen to each relative of victims of war from each side, to know how they feel about war, to show photos of killed relatives, to let them speak what they think about Putin. I really want him to know all this and have time to suffer in his sleep.
He lives in his bubble for too long. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Damn! Surprisingly hot for a German politician | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Fuck yeah! Send that bitch to The Hague | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Ty... | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Whichever country in Europe holds the trials will have to bring back the death penalty and hanging... | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Oh grow up. This is nothing but inept posturing. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
But they will have to roll in with the goon squad and capture him, if they can even find him. It will be a two-way massacre. Maybe an elite clandestine military special forces-type team could infiltrate the country and nab him? | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
YPU SHOULD THAT with Obama Bush Trump, also, they also invades porro countries | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
I’m not sure staging a Nuremberg trial in absentia when trying to get both parties to the negotiating table is the best idea.
You kinda need to leave some doors open. If you don’t they’ll never have an incentive to deescalate. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Hanger doors have been left open. Putin has no interest in peace. Need only to point to the deliberate attacks on civilian structures. The promise to not attack if nuclear weapons were removed. The appeasement by giving control of Crimea only for him to not only slowly move actual border fences but then attack later... | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Well with that position, I’m not sure how this ends without a nuclear exchange eventually.
And trials in absentia are bad optics. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Peace at this point means leave all of Ukraine. Do you really think that if appeasement is made and territory surrendered that Putin will stop there? What will happen is a pause to replenish and reorganize. And then start taking more.
Bad optics? It's not like Putin will just agree to come to trial. Next best thing ... | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
The trial is for optics in the first place. So yea if the primary purpose is optics and it’s bad optics… doesn’t make sense.
If nuclear weapons are used it doesn’t matter who is to blame. I mean you can blame Putin all you want in your post apocalyptic hovel… | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Words are wind | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
Frist do USA for irak! | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
And thats why germany is facing gas and oil sanctions | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
I thought it was agreed upon already | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
I think it is time to examine the potential for a new global Democratic Defence Alliance.
NATO is limited to The Atlanic region, thus Australia, South Korea and Japan are excluded.
ANZUS only applies to Australia, New Zealand and the USA.
So many alliances that are between only a few Democratic countries.
One big... | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
>
I wonder if the U.S. will recognize the ICCt if there is a real chance that Putin will be tried there. | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
> | [
"They can offer Nuremberg. It has the premises ready",
">\n\nWould be truly symbolic, not that there would be any chance to extract Putin and his cronies from Russia, while it still possesses nukes...",
">\n\nThere is certainly a chance. There are 147 million people in the Russian federation. They can throw ... |
/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards | [] |
>
How do you think people are trying to change the gap? Because almost all of the initiatives that I've heard of stem (bu dum tss) from encouraging women to pursue more lucrative careers | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards"
] |
>
First, some policy proponents demand a market-wide change of the valuation of different types of work, which I don't find realistic. The reason tech pays well is because it scales well. Social doesn't scale.
Second, that's not the only argument I heard. I also heard the allegation that jobs are paid inversely propor... | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
I’m trying to understand what exactly what the assertion “the part of the gender pay gap that results from women and men being in different occupations should bot be closed” means, exactly.
On the surface it sounds a bit like “different jobs can and should pay differently” which unless you are the most rabid of soci... | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
I'm not OP but I'm curious about this.
If I say society should not be taking steps to alleviate the decisions that women make in their life, you call them a 'burden' in some spots but you call them choices in other spots.
If I did say that, was your point going to be we should be? | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
My phrasing - effectively “the choice to bear a burden” - was implicitly acknowledging it could be argued either way, and I was attempting to ask the question in a neutral way.
I don’t have a well formed opinion here just yet. I tend to think that the ease of doing business - particularly making start-ups - is an en... | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
I wonder if it's actually attrition for women in general or if it's just women going the way they really want to anyway.
I know I've spoken to many women, and my wife, and my sister in law.
I suspect it's fairly common that women who even had very professional jobs, find after they have had kids and go on maternity... | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
I meant attrition in the way HR department use it - just a synonym for “left the job”, not as a suggestion of them being worn down by stress or other.
I do think it’s common for women in their early 30’s, once established, to prefer family - and that’s fine. | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
yeah, we probably don't disagree on much of anything then, I don't really see any problems occuring from any of this that needs solved, and you seem to agree that the choices women make are fine as well. | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
The question is, why is there a gap in occupational choice?
For centuries, until about the 1970s, the only careers broadly available to women were nurse, teacher, secretary, and social worker. Women were systematically barred from most prestigious, high-paying fields (business, banking, STEM, etc).
Now, only a singl... | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
I agree with you on all that. What I'm having trouble with is people who believe that, eventually, everything will even out and we will have 50/50 in every job, especially the ones that pay well. I believe that's just wishful thinking, because, despite all the barriers that women have faced in the past, once they ar... | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
I don't think anyone -- except maybe the most extreme radicals -- believe that 'closing the gender gap' means that every field needs to be exactly 50/50.
When most people refer to 'closing the gender gap,' I think they're referring to things like STEM programs for young girls, breaking up the 'good ol' boy' networki... | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
I agree with everything you wrote, especially how a personality and interest is also shaped by societal norms. Well said. I guess I was just looking for a nutjob to defend a 50-50 split for every occupation, just to understand their reasoning. | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
Wouldn't it be because there is a larger supply of workers?
Like if suddenly there was a huge uptick of female doctors available. Because in 2010 we finally allowed women into the medical field. That would ease some of the scarcity we have for doctors. And thus naturally lower their wages. | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
The same thing happened when women in large numbers became designers (wages fell 34 percentage points), housekeepers (wages fell 21 percentage points) and biologists (wages fell 18 percentage points). The reverse was true when a job attracted more men. Computer programming, for instance, used to be a relatively men... | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
Maybe male programmers did a better job who knows.
Computer programming in general seems like a terrible example though. It's a market that has absolutely exploded in the last 30 years. Even if no male on planet earth would have entered that field. With how much computers do for us nowadays computer programmers wou... | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
As a society, social work is not valued as highly as work involving technical skills. This also happens to be work that women tend to gravitate towards due to either society pressure, general stereotypes, or gender tendency. However, while those may be jobs that tend to suit women's temperaments, they are by definit... | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
I recognise that this train of thought is important, but it's not what I'm looking for here. Given capitalism as a system, is there evidence for bias against women in how they are paid based on the occupational choices they make? | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
Uh.. not so fast, if you please. My point is that your inquiry could also be turned around. Because women (not 100%) are drawn more to occupations dealing directly with human services, and that our western society does not value human services as much as other occupations, we do not pay as much. The bias is not a ... | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
Ok, so how do you show that this bias exists?
Because, so far, it's a correlation equals causation argument. | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
Sheesh! It's just a CMV, not a darn dissertation! I shouldn't have to provide research papers on the facts that 1. Social service/human needs jobs generally pay far less than electrical engineers, and 2. There are more male engineers than female engineers. | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
>
Can you explain the reasoning behind your view? As written, your post just said what your view is and then repeats it a couple of times. But it doesn't explain why you think it is true. | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
> | [
"/u/Blutorangensaft (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nHow ... |
Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here | [] |
>
I'm in favor! | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here"
] |
>
If in favor does not win, what is your second choice? | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!"
] |
>
We already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to California | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?"
] |
>
I think they were making a ranked choice vote joke lol “If not, what’s your second favorite?” | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
🤷♂️ I can whiff on a joke with a real answer and look like a since. Won't be the first time | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
Imagine if Trump loses the GOP nomination, decides to run as an Independent, and then as a result of this so many red states decide to pass ranked choice voting. | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
If the GOP irreparably fractures and passes RCV federally in a panic because of Trump, then he’ll have unintentionally had one of the most positive impacts on American politics in history. | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
It really well could destroy the 2 party system that we have, because lets say the the old school and new school Republicans decide to split. If the Dems get supermajorities in congress then everyone should pay very close attention to the relationship between moderate and progressive Democrats. Either progressives g... | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
RCV won't destroy the 2 party system. AUS uses it for their lower chamber and 10% of seats are won by 3rd parties. 10% for the US would be amazing. AUS's lower chamber is still a 2 party system.
Their upper chamber pairs it with multimember districts with 20% of seats won by 3rd parties and it is a multiparty s... | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
The effect of 3rd parties still can't be underrated. One thing that it (theoretically) forces is the major 2 parties being made to adopt policy changes in reaction to popularity rising for a specific 3rd party. This means that there needs to be more common ground and collaboration in politics than the extremist vi... | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
Good! This is a big step to ending the two party stranglehold | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
I wish California would adopt Alaska's approach rather than it's 1st in the nation, so head well up its collective butt open primary top-2 system.
If there were RCV for GENERAL elections, there'd be much less need for open primaries. RCV would introduce high odds of 3rd party and independent candidates WINNING gener... | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
RCV doesn't increase the odds of 3rd party winning. Having a viable 3rd party that people vote for OVER the two parties increases their chance.
Right now, the overwhelming majority of people would still vote Democrats or Republicans as their first choice which pretty much makes it's FPTP with extra steps.
Eliminat... | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
Right now, the overwhelming majority of people would still vote Democrats or Republicans as their first choice which pretty much makes it's FPTP with extra steps.
Again, we're letting perfect be the enemy of good.
Yes, it is a truism that if people still vote in a RCV election like it's FPTP, it'll end up with th... | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
But isn't trying to change an entire electoral system to get some hypothetical desired results the definition of letting perfect be the enemy of good? If that doesn't work do we move on to the next one?
The thing is that changing the system doesn't change how people will vote. It's a people problem, not a system pr... | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
But isn't trying to change an entire electoral system to get some hypothetical desired results the definition of letting perfect be the enemy of good?
No, it's not. I'm not sure how to say it's not other than to point out that I wouldn't advocate for what you are saying, "a wholesale change." It's not a wholesale ... | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
Alaska still has a Republican in office. Despite their being multiple third party candidates. Matter of fact, RCV around the world hasn't produced any major third party. Because RCV doesn't change why people vote, it just changes how they vote.
At the end of the day, we can have any given system, but if people stil... | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
RCV helps a little because 3rd parties are sabotaged by the 2 main parties when even getting on the ballot. Recent example is the Green party in the NC senate race. Dems on the elections board kicked them off the ballot just because. They had to get reinstated via the courts. That wastes time and limited campaig... | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
Good. Maybe we'll actually start to break the two party dynamic that has stymied change in this nation. | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
Seems less likely to challenge the two party dynamic and more likely to just force candidates of both parties more to the center | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
Under that interpretation, RCV would make things worse, so I sure hope not. | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
Except there really isn't A single center. There are lots of dimensions that get oversimplified into R vs D, so there are many different kinds of centers (or edges) that can start to gain support and we might be able to better improve the amount of consensus we can arrive at. At least in theory | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
I could see it initially going more "center" and then branching out from there. | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
Exactly, it would probably go center for things that have a near consensus like common sense abortion access and gun laws. The drug war and military spending are areas that would probably see some shift, where both parties tend to agree against a majority of the population. | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
We’ve used preferential voting here in Australia for over 100 years. Anyone who thinks the American people are too stupid to understand it is kidding themselves. | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
There'll be hysteria in the US. To think otherwise is kidding ourselves. It will die down though as it will be overblown crap based on some dumb people. The magic of RCV is that people can still just vote for one candidate.
We got STV for local elections here in the mid 2000s. Only half the people ranked but now ... | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
Yay ranked choice and based on the article even some red states are jumping in to the party.
Ranked choice voting will do so much to save this country. | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
>
Georgia does it, but in the stupidest, most expensive and most time-consuming manner they could imagine. | [
"Hopefully the dem control in Mi means they will implement it here",
">\n\nI'm in favor!",
">\n\nIf in favor does not win, what is your second choice?",
">\n\nWe already have open primaries (no need to register with a party) so either keep it that way or move to top 2/top 3 primary win system similar to Calif... |
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