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I say that a leader, a follower, a virtuous man does not know love. I say that to you. You who are leaders, you who are followers, who are struggling to be virtuous - I say you do not know love. Do not argue with me for a moment; do not say, ''Prove it to me.'' I will reason with you, show you, but first, please listen... |
Now as I said, a leader who says, ''I know the way, I know all about life, I have experienced the ultimate reality, I have the goods,'' obviously is very concerned about himself and his visions and about transmitting his visions to the poor listener; a leader wants to lead people to something which he thinks is right. ... |
So, I am trying to show you that a mind that is sensitive, inquiring, a mind that is really listening can perceive the truth of something immediately. But truth cannot be ''applied.'' If you see the truth, it operates without your conscious effort, of its own accord. |
So, discontent is the beginning of freedom, and so long as you are trying to manipulate discontent, to accept authority in order that this discontent shall disappear, enter into safe channels, then you are already losing that pristine sense of real feeling. Most of us are discontented, are we not, either with our jobs,... |
So, as I have been pointing out, freedom from something is not freedom. You are trying to be free from anger; I do not say you must not be free from anger, but I say that that is not freedom. I may be rid of greed, pettiness, envy, or a dozen other things, and yet not be free. Freedom is a quality of the mind. That qua... |
So how is that sense of otherness, that quality of mind to come about? You cannot cultivate it because the moment you use your brain, you are using thought, which is limited. Whether it is the thought of the Buddha or anyone else, all thought is limited. So our inquiry must be negative; we must come to that freedom obl... |
So, how is the mind, which is full of multitudinous influences, compulsions, various forms of contradictory desires, the product of time, how is that mind to have the quality of freedom? You understand, sirs? We know that all the things that I have been talking about are not freedom. They are all manufactured by the mi... |
The mind says, ''I must discipline myself in order to achieve a result.'' That is fairly obvious. But such discipline does not bring freedom. It brings a result because you have a motive, a cause which produces the result, but that result is never freedom, it is only a reaction. That is fairly clear. Now, if I begin to... |
So, negatively, I have understood the whole problem of what is not freedom. I have examined it, I have searched my heart and my mind, the recesses of my being, to understand what freedom means, and I see that none of these things we have described is freedom because they are all based on desire, compulsion, will, on wh... |
And here, if I may say so, what is important is the teaching and not the teacher. The person who speaks here at the moment is not important; throw him overboard. What is important is what is being said. So the mind only knows the measurable, the compass of itself, the frontiers, ambitions, hopes, desperation, misery, s... |
We talked over together the last time, which was on Sunday, the whole question of fear. I think we ought to go into the problem of pleasure, enjoyment and that which is not pleasure, which is joy. It's really quite a complex problem because it involves a great deal and to understand this problem, this question, which m... |
What is freedom? Many books and theoreticians and so-called philosophers - the word 'philosophy' means the love of truth, not the love of words and theories - many philosophers and others have written a great deal, I believe, about pleasure and about freedom. The Communist world denies freedom, all dictatorship, totali... |
That is: in the opposite - whether it is the Communist opposite as an antithesis - the opposite can never give freedom, because the opposite has its root in that which has been considered its own opposite. So in that there is no freedom. So is freedom away from reality, reality being that which has thought... which tho... |
As we said the other day, the word 'art' means to put everything in its right place, where it belongs. So in enquiring into freedom, is that freedom totally away from reality, though in reality there must be a certain order of freedom? Right? If in the world of reality there is no freedom at all, then we are completely... |
Is intelligence merely to keep a mind extraordinarily awake, which is necessary, and is it merely to read between two thoughts, between two lines, between two words, between two symbolic conclusions? Or is intelligence... does intelligence come about through the orderly action in the field of reality and that orderly a... |
I am investigating as we are going along. Because I see very clearly that in the world of reality in which we live, we live a very disorderly life, and to escape from that disorderly life, we resort to all kinds of absurdities. But if we do not bring about order in the field of reality - the field of reality being the ... |
Please. The word 'intelligence' is not merely just a word, it doesn't come by merely offering opinions or definitions about intelligence. We can play that game endlessly. But without that quality of intelligence, which is the act of perception, and the act of perception is to do what it sees immediately - that is intel... |
Then also we must consider what is beauty in relation to pleasure. We asked what is freedom with regard to pleasure, because we all say, 'I must be free to pursue my pleasure.' If I am thwarted, I'll become violent and all the rest of it. And in the understanding of pleasure, what is the relationship of intelligence to... |
So, there must be an understanding, there must be the ordering of beauty in relation to pleasure. So what is beauty? You know again this is a very, very subtle question, because we all have opinions unfortunately. We say beauty is this, beauty is that or this is not beautiful, or that is beautiful - and so on - this is... |
So before we begin to enquire what is beauty, we have to go into this question of what is creation? What is the mind that is creative? Can the mind that is fragmented - however capable, whatever its gift, talent - is such a mind creative? If I live a fragmented life, pursuing my cravings, my selfishness, my division as... |
No please, this is not my conclusion. I am not the Delphic Oracle. I am enquiring with you, we are enquiring together, taking the journey together into this enormous problem of what is called beauty. And does such a mind that is whole, whole in the sense not fragmented, not contradictory in action, not contradictory in... |
So is beauty the expression of a marvellous building, the outlines of an extraordinary structure? Is beauty the poem - however romantic, however usual, however rhythmic, whatever its content, written by a poet who himself is ambitious, greedy, wants to have success, sensitive in one direction and totally insensitive in... |
So, to find out what beauty is - the inward sense of it, not the expression of it. When you see the mountain which is beautiful, we don't have to be told it is beautiful - and when you paint that mountain and exhibit it, the thing that is painted is not the mountain. So we have to go very deeply into the question of wh... |
And if you have watched only - I have been told, in recent years the landscape was painted in Italy with the saints. So religions, because they said, 'Beauty is associated with pleasure, therefore if you are pursuing god you cannot pursue pleasure, therefore don't be caught in beauty.' You understand? This is happening... |
We said a human being who is selfish - selfish being ambitious, greedy, worldly - worldly in the sense wanting a name, position, recognition, popularity, money, a status - all that is included in that word 'selfishness' for the moment. A mind that is selfish, is he creative or is it only a mind that is totally unselfis... |
So, pleasure has been identified with beauty - the beautiful woman. The beautiful, which is lovely. So love and beauty and pleasure apparently have gone together. And one questions that whole concept, because it is a concept: that love is beauty and the pursuit of beauty is pleasure. So one has to go into this question... |
So is love pleasure? You understand? We have associated love with pleasure, with the desire - and what is pleasure and why does man everlastingly pursue that pleasure? If you have watched yourself, if you have gone, looked at yourself even for ten minutes, ten seconds - this is one of the great principles, like sufferi... |
There are three things concerned with pleasure: joy, enjoyment and pleasure. This is so - look at it. You are going to find out what is the relationship between the three of them. Joy - real enjoyment of a lovely day, the enjoyment of seeing the mountains, hearing the great thunder rolling among the hills - and the min... |
We are not pursuing pleasure but thought is pursuing pleasure. And when you pursue... when thought pursues something, it must be in the field of time. Therefore yesterday the sexual pleasure, the remembrance of it and the pursuit of it. Seeing the pleasure, all 'pleasure', in quotes, the mountains and the sunset, and t... |
So: can thought not pursue? You understand? You flatter me - and I listen to it - and that's the end of it. Thought then doesn't carry it over. You have said something which was maybe right or wrong; I listen to it - there's the reaction and there's the ending of it. The light on those mountains yesterday evening, with... |
That means to be totally awake to the whole problem of pleasure. And what is the relationship between pleasure and enjoyment? You enjoy a good meal - if you do - and you want the repetition of that enjoyment tomorrow. Right? So there is the enjoyment of the moment, and thought pursuing that enjoyment of the moment as a... |
So, is love pleasure? Tell me sir. That is, we said the pursuit, the hunter is the thought. So is love to be hunted by thought? And which it does, as we live now - and is that love? Has love any relationship to thought? Please sir, go into it. And if it has no relationship to love, then what is my relationship to anoth... |
So freedom, intelligence, beauty and love and the pursuit of pleasure are all interrelated - they are not separate things, which we have made it. 'I must be beautiful' - not only physically attractive, sexually appealing. This is our education, our conditioning, and to see all this as a whole - not as fragments, not as... |
Here all this is important to understand and live - not merely intellectually, understand verbally - because we are going to deal with something much more... something which is the total truth and total creation, which is death. And to understand that problem which has torn man, which has... man has pursued something, ... |
So we have this problem of death, and later on perhaps we will talk about meditation and all that. We have got two more talks, haven't we? Two more. We'll have to cover those two things next two days that we meet here. But you know, if you have no sense of beauty - not painting and all the rest of it, paint your face a... |
The whole meaning, the whole substance of life is this, if you can capture it and live with it; and if you do live with it then you will affect every consciousness of human being. You can't help it. Right sir. |
It would be good if we could have a dialogue between two people, but as there is such a large audience, it will not be possible. Because dialogue is very important, so that you ask a question and to that question there is a reply, and to that reply you ask another question and so keep that communication of question and... |
We are going to talk over together this morning the art of living as we said yesterday, which is to have complete freedom, not the freedom of choice, not the freedom of what one wants to do or likes to do, for that freedom is limited by the environment, by society, by religious doctrines and so on, but freedom is somet... |
And we have lived with conflict for generation upon generation, not only conflict in our relationship, but conflict with society, conflict with other nations. Nationalism as we pointed out, is tribal worship and that is causing enormous despair, wars, division: the Jew and the Arab, the Hindu and the Muslim, the Commun... |
And as we say, unless there is a radical mutation, change, a fundamental psychological revolution, not physical revolutions which have led man nowhere, as is shown in the communist world, they have had many, many revolutions, physical revolutions, they have not changed the psychological quality of human beings. Unless ... |
We are exploring the thing together. To explore deeply, there must be a great deal of scepticism, doubt, not only doubt what you think, but doubt of your own experiences and prejudices and opinions - doubt the whole structure, psychological structure that human beings have built in themselves and around themselves. The... |
So, as we said, without freedom - please, we are using that word very, very carefully, not the freedom that you have in this country to do what you like, fulfil, you know the whole idea of freedom: choice, movement, status, position, achieve, success, that's only a very, very small part of freedom, and that may perhaps... |
So what is freedom? And as we said that very word, etymologically, means love, from the Ancient Greeks and so on. Freedom implies freedom from, freedom from, let us say, fear. Is it possible for human beings who have lived with fear of various kinds to be completely free of fear psychologically, inwardly? We are asking... |
So we are asking: what is the root of fear? We said is it time? Time being not only chronological time by the watch, sun rise, sunset, but time as a movement. That is, time is the past, the present and the future. In the present all time is contained. If there is no radical change in the present, now, the future is wha... |
Please, this is a serious question; it is not something to play with; it is not a hobby. We are dealing with life. Life isn't a hobby. Life means living at the highest excellence, at the highest capacity of intelligence and that implies intelligence is born out of love, not out of calculation, design - planned. |
So is time, which is a movement from the past through the present and the future, having done something wrong, or having done something pleasant, modifying itself in the present, and going on in the future: I hope to have more pleasure, I hope to have more money - secure. The whole movement is of time. And is thought t... |
So is thought, time, the root of fear? Obviously it is, and man has never been able to solve this question because we have lived with fear from the ape to now. Perhaps some of us are rather apish. So we are asking a very serious question: is it possible to be totally psychologically free of fear? Don't, please, agree o... |
Not how to stop thinking - you understand? - which is causing fear. I wonder if you understand all this. (laughter) I was told yesterday that perhaps about two or three per cent understand what you are talking about! I hope not! It is a waste of time on your part, and on the part of the speaker. But if we are moving to... |
And also we ought to talk over together the question of pleasure: pleasure of possession, pleasure of status, sexual pleasure, pleasure of seeing a sunset, pleasure of seeing the beauty of land, the delight of seeing a great mountain, snow-capped in the blue sky. It gives great pleasure. And also one has to look at it ... |
And also, if you are not too tired, we ought to talk over together the question of sorrow. Man, every human being on earth has carried this burden of sorrow. Sorrow that wars have produced; and these wars have been going on for five to six thousand years, practically every year there has been a war in this world and th... |
So we ought to talk over together, briefly for the moment, what is a problem? Why do we have problems - not only business problems, technological problems, problems with man and woman and so on? We have got so many problems. Why? And problems imply solutions; from childhood we are trained, educated, to solve problems. ... |
We are asking whether sorrow can end. This question has been put long before Christianity, long before any kind of organised religion. Man has always asked this question while he is suffering: is there an end to all this pain and loneliness, despair, anxiety, remorse, guilt? When we've asked a question of this kind, th... |
So we are asking whether sorrow can end. Don't answer it - it cannot or it can. Let the question, if you put it vitally, if you put it with all your energy, not just intellectually play with it, when you put that question, with all your being, leave it alone. It's like a seed that you have planted in the earth, you don... |
We ought to talk about death. Why are people frightened of death? Don't, please, you are frightened, don't pass it off. As you get older, either you become a very religious, superstitious human being, or join some cult, or you begin to enquire into what is death, and why we have separated it from living - the living an... |
And also we ought to talk over together what is religion and meditation. What is religion? Man from the most ancient of times has sought something beyond the daily existence with its monotony, with its routine, with mechanical habits both physical and inward. He said there must be something beyond all this, so he inven... |
Then, is there something sacred? Is there something eternal which is beyond time? Is there something totally untouched by thought? To find out, not you find out - for it to be, we said there must be meditation. Meditation is not just repeating some words, whether Ave Maria and all the rest of it, that is all too immatu... |
And meditation means an extraordinary activity of the brain, not silencing the brain. When the brain is at its highest quality, full of energy, there is silence, not the silence put together by thought, which is limited silence. And in that silence which can only come when there is freedom, and therefore there is love ... |
May we go on where we left off the day before yesterday morning? We were talking about time: time as the past, if I may briefly repeat, time as the past, time as the future, time now, at this second. We were saying also that all time, the past, the present and the future is contained in the now. We went into it fairly ... |
We would like this morning also in relation to time to enquire together, I mean together, not I explain, you just accept, or you deny or agree, but together investigate closely, both intellectually, logically, sanely, rationally, and also to go beyond it. Because logic, rationality has its own limitation because it is ... |
Freedom, health and the quality of energy that comes when one captures or sees, perceives the truth of all time contained in the now. Right? What is freedom? All human beings throughout the ages have sought some kind of freedom, historically, religiously and so on. And freedom is translated now as doing exactly what on... |
So we must enquire into what is freedom? Is freedom choice? To choose between two cars, between two materials, to go where you want, to fulfil yourself at the expense of everybody else - right? I hope you are following all this. To try to become much more than what we are - better, nobler, wiser, more - acquiring more ... |
That is, if one is a teacher who wants gradually to become a professor in a university, or an apprentice in any discipline, he is all the time attempting to become something - becoming more, becoming a greater expert, greater skill, greater knowledge. This limited energy given to a certain subject is limiting. Therefor... |
You see we don't really demand freedom. We demand only within the limited area that I must do what I feel, I must act according to my like and dislike, and in that action I am free, I can choose between you and another, and so on. So all that activity is very, very limited, and that very limitation denies freedom. Of c... |
So freedom must be something entirely different. And is it possible to come to that, to realise that freedom? That is not to be ambitious at all. Go into it. Which doesn't prevent the love of doing - right? The scientists throughout the world are very ambitious too, like the rest of us. They want to achieve some superi... |
So is it possible to be free from the linguistic prison? You understand? Sirs, you don't put your minds to all this. Right? See if it is possible for you, sitting here now, to be entirely free of the image of words. So there is freedom - there is no freedom in becoming. There is no freedom when a man is ambitious, or a... |
And also we ought to enquire: what is health? Does this interest you, health? Now, you all wake up! What is health? Can there be healthy organism, biological organism when there is constant conflict? - between each other, one opinion opposing the other, one expressing his desires fully against others' desires? This con... |
This enquiry is not just when you are reaching death, on the deathbed, but one must enquire right from when you are very young, or middle aged, or now as the speaker is. What is health? And health implies energy, tremendous energy. And we dissipate that energy through conflict, through strain, through all kinds of toba... |
There is intellectual energy - right? The intellectual energy is when they have put a robot on the moon, it requires tremendous intellectual energy - you understand? To invent all the horrible things of war requires great intellectual capacity and energy - right? There is emotional energy by itself, perhaps slightly mo... |
So what is energy which is not dissipated at all? - dissipated, wasted. Because this is important to understand, the quality of energy which is highly intelligent, highly capable of reasoning, highly capable of analysing, looking, observing, self-critically aware and therefore constantly removing any impediment in the ... |
There have been wars for, historically, five thousand years, practically every year there has been a war, and we are living in a state of war - right? And you say that is natural, we have done it for fifty thousand years, why not? The profit - the politicians profit by this - right? |
So, we are asking each other: is it possible to live without a single conflict? From that we have to enquire why we human beings have problems. Problem means conflict - right? Why have we problems? Why does the brain accept problems. Is the brain itself - you understand? I am going to ask something, please listen. I am... |
So what is one to do? Right? If the brain, that which is inside the skull, is the machinery which creates problems - it is - mathematical problems, technical problems, problems between man and woman, problems with politics, problems with pollution - right? All the depository of all the toxic material - you follow? The ... |
Religiously, look at it, you are trained as a Christian, to have faith. Saviour and faith. And those who are the Buddhists say that is all nonsense. That is the invention of the Western priests - which is probably true. They say there is no such thing as Saviour, Buddhists, or having faith; they say doubt, question, en... |
So can the brain be free of problems? You understand? That is, there are problems in life, you can't help it, it is so. But to meet the problem with a brain that has no problems - do you understand? That is, my statement, do you understand? You put in front of the speaker a problem. If his brain is also full of problem... |
So to find out whether you can have a brain that is not a mechanical brain, that is not a machinery that is solving problems, which means to have no problem. And that is possible - I will show it to you in a minute, if you go into it carefully - that is possible only when you understand time. |
As we said, time is the past, present and the future. All that time, all the past, the present and the future is held in the now - right? You understand? Problem means a future. You get it? Come on sirs. You understand? Any problem implies the resolution of it, which is in the future. Right? That is why it is very impo... |
There are problems, life has problems because human beings are so obstinate, so arrogant, full of their own importance. I have done this, I am going to stick to it. And they create problems, and the speaker has to meet them - right? If he is also full of problems he will make a mess of it - right? So to be free of prob... |
Then we have said previously, time is contained in the now. See the relationship between the problem and the time, do you see it? Therefore any problem I meet has no time. It must be solved instantly. You have understood this? That implies - may I go on? I hope you are as excited as the speaker is, because he is discov... |
Look sir, there are problems between man and woman - there are other problems, I am just taking that one problem. Man and woman. They quarrel. This is one of the unfortunate things that happen in relationship. They quarrel about god knows what, every petty little thing on earth. They quarrel. And they never solve the q... |
Now if the man or the woman understood the nature of time, the truth of it - you understand? - that is, to see the quarrelling going on, the conflict going on, and see, perceive, and you perceive it instantly the cause, and instantly remove the cause because you are not allowing time at all to interfere with the soluti... |
So can your brain, which is no longer a slave to linguistic control, linguistic images, and has understood the nature of freedom, real freedom in which there is no sense of moving away from something. If you move away from, let's say, if you move away from anxiety, the movement is time. And therefore that movement may ... |
So enquiring into freedom, enquiring into what is health, because if you are not healthy you cannot have freedom, because that will impede you. I may be paralysed but still I can be healthy - you understand? I may have only one eye to see clearly but that doesn't prevent me my health. Health is destroyed by this consta... |
And also we ought to talk over together why human beings are hurt, psychologically wounded, why human beings in their relationship quarrel and so on. I don't think this morning there is time for it - it is now twenty to twelve. So may we stop this morning and continue on Thursday morning? Would that be all right? |
t seems that communion is a very difficult art. To commune with one another over the many problems that we have requires listening and learning, which are both very difficult to do. Most of us hardly listen, and we hardly learn. To commune with each other, which is what these meetings are intended for, requires a certa... |
It seems to me of the utmost importance that we do listen in order to learn. Learning is not merely the accumulation of knowledge. Knowledge never brings perception; experience never flowers into the beauty of understanding. Most of us listen with the background of what we know, of what we have experienced. Perhaps you... |
When you commune with your own heart, when you commune with your friend, when you commune with the skies, with the stars, with the sunset, with a flower, then surely you are listening so as to find out, to learn - which does not mean that you accept or deny. You are learning, and either acceptance or denial of what is ... |
I think it is important to understand that a man who accumulates can never learn. Self-learning implies a fresh, eager mind - a mind that is not committed, a mind that does not belong to anything, that is not limited to any particular field. It is only such a mind that learns. |
Do please experiment with what is being said as we go along. I would like to consider with you the vast and complex problem of freedom, but to inquire into that problem, to commune with it, to go into it hesitantly, tentatively, requires a very sharp, clear, and incisive mind - a mind that is capable of listening and t... |
I wonder if you are at all aware of this extraordinary compulsion to belong to something? I am sure most of you belong to some political party, to a certain group or organized belief; you are committed to a particular way of thinking or living, and that surely denies freedom. I do not know if you have examined this com... |
Have you not done this very thing? Leaving one ism, you go and join something else - Catholicism, Communism, Moral Rearmament, and God knows what else. You move from one commitment to another, compelled by the urge to belong to something. Why? I think it is an important question to ask oneself. Why do you want to belon... |
Most of us are not free. We are slaves to Hinduism, to communism, to one society or another, to leaders, to political parties, to organized religions, to gurus, and so we have lost our dignity as human beings. There is dignity as a human being only when one has tasted, smelled, known this extraordinary thing called fre... |
Most of us choose the easy path of being guided, being led; we belong to something, and thereby lose our human dignity. Probably you will say, ''Well, I have heard this before; he is on his favorite subject,'' and go away. I wish it were possible for you to listen as if you were listening for the first time - like seei... |
So let us inquire patiently and persistently into this question of what is freedom. Surely, only a free man can comprehend the truth - which is to find out if there is an eternal something beyond the measure of the mind; and the man who is burdened with his own experience or knowledge is never free because knowledge pr... |
We are going to commune with each other, to inquire together into this question of what is freedom and how to come by it. And thus to inquire, there must obviously be freedom right from the start; otherwise, you cannot inquire, can you? You must totally cease to belong, for only then is your mind capable of inquiring. ... |
Do please listen to what is being said and see for yourself the fact that the very first movement of inquiry must be born of freedom. You cannot be committed and from there inquire, any more than an animal tied to a tree can wander far. Your mind is a slave as long as it is committed to Hinduism, to Buddhism, to Islam,... |
After all, the scientists who got together to tackle the problem of going to the moon were free to inquire, however much they may have been slaves to their country, and all the rest of it. I am only referring to that peculiar freedom of the scientist at a research station. At least for the time being, in his laboratory... |
The other day in Kashmir, several sannyasis said to me, ''We live alone in the snow. We never see anybody. No one ever comes to visit us.'' And I said to them, ''Are you really alone, or are you merely physically separated from humanity?'' ''Oh, yes,'' they replied, ''we are alone.'' But they were with their Vedas and ... |
So, do consider and see how your job, your going from the house to the office every day for thirty, forty, or fifty years, your knowledge of certain techniques as an engineer, a lawyer, a mathematician, a lecturer - how all this makes you a slave. Of course, in this world one has to know some technique and hold a job, ... |
A mind that wants to inquire into freedom and discover its beauty, its vastness, its dynamism, its strange quality of not being effective in the worldly sense of that word - such a mind from the very beginning must put aside its commitments, the desire to belong; and with that freedom, it must inquire. Many questions a... |
I do not know if you have considered the nature of the intellect. The intellect and its activities are all right at a certain level, are they not? But when the intellect interferes with that pure feeling, then mediocrity sets in. To know the function of the intellect and to be aware of that pure feeling without letting... |
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