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Collection for podcasts • 511 items • Updated • 2
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A | Bankless nation. Have you heard of Fraxtil? Well, have you heard of Frax? Frax is a decentralized bank on Ethereum, much like Makerdao, but with plenty of differences, too. Frax has always been ahead of the curve in development progress versus its on chain comrades. When Makerdao forked Aave to create Spark later last ... |
B | I just like to say founder and core developer. I don't like CEO's. Vitalik's not CEO of Ethereum. |
A | Cool. Love it. Sam, the builder of Frax. We had Sam on, actually almost to this day two years ago, and I thought it was an immensely useful episode just to teach about the evolution of monetary policy. Frax, I kind of considered to be like a modern age version of a central bank called a decentral bank on Ethereum that ... |
B | Yeah, for sure. So Frax started in late 2020, as a lot of people know. It started as a decentralized stablecoin, pegged to the us dollar. And so it's kind of like the way that I say it is. Like after Dai, Frax is like the most Lindy, oldest decentralized stablecoin. And as Fracs grew, our view was like, we should build... |
A | I think this is. You're getting into the part that I've really appreciated about the whole Frax project is that it is head on attacking the concept of money, whereas a lot of people kind of. A lot of projects in the space kind of sometimes dance around it. But Frax has always been focused on money as a concept. Maybe t... |
B | No, I think that's actually really well said. So the first thing is, like you said, m two money is actually the biggest in terms of opportunity. If you go back to econ, m one money is just a monetary base. It's just cash, and there's more m two money. And that's where most m one is. |
A | Bear instruments. |
B | Exactly. Exactly. It's just cash, or at this point, digital cash, like deposits in the central bank, or bitcoin, or ETH itself. The thing that I actually like, honestly, David, about bankless as well, is that you guys are the originator of the ETH is money thing. I think we see a lot eye to eye in the sense that you gu... |
A | Yeah, yeah. The way that we articulate the whole like EIP 4844 and blob space evolution of the Ethereum, the network, is that it's making a trade. It's making a trade off that ethereum, the layer one, wants to extract less economic value from layer twos by creating blob space. So it's cheaper to be a layer two. And wha... |
B | Yeah, you're basically trading ETh as a cash flow analysis asset, although obviously it makes a bunch of cash flow, but you're trading that for more monetary value. And if you think about it like, something as money always has a higher market cap than something as, like a stock or like a cash to flow rate. And so, like... |
A | Yeah, totally. One last thing I want to put a bow on about the whole Frax system is that there is a stable coin here. So, like, Frax is a decentral bank. It has a liability. That liability is a dollar denominated token. Can you just talk about, like, what makes up the balance sheet of the frax, like p and l, and then a... |
B | Yeah, definitely. So Fracs, the dollar peg stable coin first actually started out as a partially algorithmic and partially collateralized. It is now fully collateralized. In fact, we have a real time balance sheet on fax Fracs finance. So, like, you can actually see every block. It's updated the addresses. You could cl... |
A | So there's like three phases of the fracs project that I've seen emerge. There is the focus on the frac stablecoin, maximizing the risk of adjusted return, just like the whole decentral bank as a smart contract system on Ethereum. That's phase one of frax. That's where the fracs got started. Phase two is the applicatio... |
B | Maybe protocol sponsored is protocol sponsored. |
A | Yeah, yeah. State sponsored. If we wanted to put it into nation state terms. Protocol sponsored, if we want to put it into app terms, which I guess we do. And so that's like phase two. And then phase three is now what this conversation is going to point to, which is like the fracs chain, the actual fracs layer two. But... |
B | Yeah, I think there's two parts to your question. And so the first part is we actually did even more. I don't want to give ourselves credit, but the thing is, for example, when we did these AMO contracts, algorithmic market operation contracts, which control pol. We started minting in other lending pools or amms and th... |
A | Very cool. Yeah. Just to continue doing some comparing and contrasting of the fracs apps, app ecosystem with its comparables. So there's a uniswap comparable. There's an Aave comparable. There's a curve comparable. All of the DeFi 1.0, the big names in DeFi, these are all, we call them Defi money legos, but they're act... |
B | Yeah. You can also even think of these protocols as monetary levers. We need more over collateralized loans. You mint new fracs into these fracs lend pairs. That governance has done. Oh, we need more protocol and liquidity. You can more fracs into the curb ammo that manages the liquidity on curve. And then the other th... |
A | Cool. Very, very cool. Okay, so I think that ties a pretty good bow on both phase one and phase two of these two. Three phases that I've, like, roughly defined here on this podcast and just totally made up. So let's go into phase three, which is Fraxel. The frax chain. Talk to me about Fraxel. Why build a chain? How do... |
B | Yeah, definitely. So fraxtill is a modular roll up. It is. We divide it into execution environment, da, and consensus and settlement. Just like modular systems. The execution environment is actually opstack. So it's very, very familiar. It's just actually base. It's optimism mainnet. It is actually part of the super ch... |
A | Yeah, yeah. So the arc of fracs, I think, is very educational for people to understand a little bit about how, just, like, the evolution of crypto has really gone. Like, Frax started off as this, like, one single app, which is like this decentral bank issuing the fracs stablecoin liability, and then it turned into, lik... |
B | And now they all use the fracs money, right? They all use the stuff as money. Yeah. |
A | Right. And then now. Now it's like, hey, let's just build a home for us, a dedicated, enshrined home for the app, the frax ecosystem. A, because, like, you know, if you want to use the fracs ecosystem, you have to pay gas fees. Why do we give away gas fees to the Ethereum? Layer one, let's collect our own gas fees as a... |
B | Yeah, from. I think you can. You can probably say, because we, we really take this, this cycle to heart. Might have just actually skipped over the app chain part, because, like, fracs as a system is already pretty big. And, like, we, we actually frax those. A fully general purpose chain. We have these things actually c... |
A | So this whole idea of fracs points and issuing points as a function of how well used that smart contract on the Fraxel chain is, that's the same. That's, like, synonymous to contract secured revenue, which is like an old term that has, like, the idea of, like, contract secured revenue has been around in crypto for a lo... |
B | Well, the idea is nothing new. And I am actually intimately familiar with gas rebates, which is why I was, like, bringing up or contract secure revenue, I think both Phantom and even near. So we did a lot of research on this, even implemented this. And as you could probably tell it, depending on the right way to do it,... |
A | Right. The idea of contract secured revenue is nothing new, but we've seen it be attempted by chains that tried to use it as a zero to one bootstrapping mechanism. And that's always been like Uber hard mode. And then you're also saying it's antithetical to the idea of scaling as a chain because the whole gas rebate, wh... |
B | Yeah, the only thing I'll say is that they will be tokenized. And so obviously it's up to the community in terms of voting, in terms of exactly the raid and how that stuff will be done, but they will be obviously tokenized. They're not just a fun game, but in terms of how. I think the best way to say it is in the first... |
A | Well, Sam, this has been, like, very on brand of you to do, because Frax, the whole ecosystem has always been just, like, one dimension deeper than the rest of the ecosystem. So the whole, like, Fraxel layer three vision, you guys had this at least a good number of months ago before, like, base even got their very firs... |
B | Yeah, so we are part of the super chain collective. We've already committed to sharing sequencer revenue and all that good stuff and helping with development with the optimism team, we work very closely with them. They're amazing. They're absolutely incredible. Carl and every one of them that lead Ben and those guys in... |
A | Beautiful, Sam. If people want to learn more about Frax, if developers want to build their layer three on Fraxel or just learn anything, where should they go? |
B | Yeah, so we are very, very active on x and telegram. It's just finance. Both exactly the same username. And then I'm very available all the time. If I'm awake, I'm on either working or on x and telegram myself. It's Amcasmian, just my name, both same username. I would love to talk to anyone. |
A | Around 24/7 Sam, thank you so much for coming on the show and educating me and the bankless nation about Fraxel. |
B | Thanks, David. |
A | Bankless nation. You guys know the deal. Crypto is risky. Layer two is a risky. Layer three is a risky. It's all risky, blah, blah, blah. You can lose what you put in. We are headed west. This is frontier. It's not for everyone. But we are glad you are with us on the bankless journey. Thanks a lot. |
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