Chaos Undivided, Bretonnian Civil War, and the Battle of Middenheim!
Fatshark Lounge
Imnrk June 1, 2019, 5:15am #1
Hello. In anticipation for the Winds of Magic dlc, I thought I would start a thread about future expansions we would like to see, expect to see, and/or hope for. Personally, I would like to see our motley gang of heroes involved in major events of the End Times. Fatshark could create a whole narrative about how they are the "unsung heroes" of the forces of order or whatever. Here's some ideas I have:
It would be cool to see a series of missions in Bretonnia, fighting off vampires and skaven who are attacing the loyalist Bretonnians. There's a lot of potential mission material: sneaking into a vampire's lair, saving a local duke, messing up a ritual, etc. This would give us a lore-friendly excuse to fight the undead, as well as take us to some locations unavailable in our humble Reikland.
The undead themselves would consist of slow and weak, but durable and numerous. We could get fell bats which dodge ranged fire, necromancers which can summon zombies, and armored grave guard elites. A "hit and un" style chariot would be cool to. There is a lot of potential here.
It would alwo be cool to see a mission taking place near the final battle of the End Times, maybe as the last ever update! We could be raiding the back lines of the Everchosen's horde - running into warriors from all four chaos gods, and maybe even some daemons. Tzeentchian sorcerers which can upgrade enemy troops (turn slave rat into clan rat, etc), Khornate champions which can hit through blocks, and Slanesshi berserkers which can debuff and disorient the player.
I'm looking forward to seeing your ideas for future content - the bigger the scope, the better!
Haxorzist June 1, 2019, 8:50am #2
While cool V2 is not cannon unlike V1 (as far as I know) and I think FS said that they want/have to stay away from major event's even dough the surely would make awesome KF and Deathclaw / Steamtank models worth waiting for.
About the undead.
I think Nagash raises them around the world at some point during the end times (late but before he allies with the forces of order) so basically you could find hordes of them easily.
mr_sp1ce June 1, 2019, 9:38am #3
Imnrk:
armored grave guard elites
headless horsemen patrol monkaS
"Body's armoured, just hit the he… Oh, wait"
BizarreSalp June 1, 2019, 10:15pm #4
I feel like Undead and Greenskins could both be in the future of Vermintide. Undead could have a lot of really cool mechanics - maybe on hit giving you curse (just a little, that could decay over time), which would change up entirely how you fight them - hit-trading would almost never be a good idea. Greenskins . . . well, all I need to say there is Squigs and WAAAGH! Holy crap, hearing the WAAAGH! to signal a horde would be amazing.
Beyond that, I would like to see the heroes travel a bit. We shouldn't forget the Empire setting entirely, but the game has a huge appeal in actually feeling like an adventure. Let's go down to the Southlands and see Karak Zorn and a Lizardmen Temple-City! Everyone knows I'm the resident Skink-monger, but even if there's never a playable one, I would at least like to see a Temple City in the game. Given that most DLCs have been about "go get this macguffin", it wouldn't be hard to explain. "Use our magic portal to go get a macguffin that's far away" is actually less weird than "go into a deadly illusion of the past to get a macguffin", IMO.
That said, new heroes are something I really, really want to see. Not a lot; I know they're a lot of work, and it would compound on itself in a way. Of course, so does adding anything new that requires voice work. The absolute max I'd think could work could be three; and if that were the case, I'd want to see:
A Bretonnian - Could have Knight Errant, Herrimault, and Lost Son
Probably the most obvious, but the least interesting to anyone who isn't a Bret fan already - not because there's anything wrong with the idea, just that it doesn't necessarily stand out in comparison to the existing careers. We have a knight and a Robin Hood-esque character already. Lost Son could at least stand out as visually more mystical, and maybe use spells.
A Skink - Could have Cohortian, Mist Runner, and Astromancer (I love this idea, talk more about it here)
A stretch in distance only, as Skinks can learn a lot of languages and are totally anathema to Chaos and Skaven. After a tense intro to the party (though I expect Kerillian probably would know what Lizardmen are about, Lohner too), they could be accepted easily and be the exotic member of the party. Astromancer lets us get other cool elemental spells, like wind and electricity and ice.
A Vampire - Not sure, lots of potential from the various bloodlines.
Hardest to justify in lore - I don't think Saltzpyre would ever accept one, and literally everyone in the party has a lot of reason even beyond the obvious to hate a Vampire (Dawi will not tolerate them, nor Asrai, plus Kruber's history with Necromancers, and Sienna's likely to hate Dark Magic users for giving all magic users a bad name). But it could be really damn cool. I imagine them having only half of a "green" health bar at max, with the rest only being able to be filled via temp health from draining enemies or something. I'd love to see a monstrous Strigoi that could use giant claws to shred enemies.
Beyond that . . . I don't want a reinvention of the wheel. I'd like to see more weapons, more enemies, more maps, more pickups.
BizarreSalp June 2, 2019, 1:40am #5
Other random thoughts, but as for how to get Greenskins into the story; it really wouldn't be that hard. Grimgor is in the World's Edge Mountains, which are far from the Grey Mountains that the U5 are near; a warband in these mountains, tricked by the Skaven (it happens in lore), want to get a good fight and so go for our heroes. Nice, easy, Orcish.
As for units, you have interesting things like Nasty Skulkers, Squig Catchers, Shaman, Doom Divers, Night Goblin Fanatics, Squigs . . . Not to mention the various, perfect basic units to fill the regular roles, of Gobbos, Orc Boys, Savage Orcs, and Black Orcs. For Monsters you could have Giant Squigs, Rogue Idols, maybe even just a huger, tougher Orc.
Undead are a little trickier, because Nurgle typically hates them - but that doesn't mean he wouldn't use them. Necromancers are greedy, and they are known to work with the Dark Powers for their own game. I can imagine the Rotbloods/Skaven are totally planning to betray the Necromancer, they just want extra bodies (literally) on the front lines, and the Necromancer is probably likewise planning to betray them.
Again, they have some really cool potential for units - as chaff, there are zombies and skeletons, but you could also have Spirit Hosts and Crypt Ghouls. For elites there could be Grave Guard, Cairn Wraiths, and Black Knights (dismounted). Specials have interesting options out the wazoo; Necromancers, Banshees, Fell Bats, Dire Wolves, Bloated Corpses, Feral Vampires . . . And for Monsters you can have stuff like Crypt Horrors or Vargheists.
LordRhinark June 3, 2019, 10:31am #6
@Imnrk
I'm a bit iffy on Chaos Undivided, as the current alliance the Pactsworn have are due to the similarities of the Skaven and the forces of Nurgle. Skaven and Slaanesh forces, for example, wouldn't really have reason to team up.
However, I definitely agree that Daemons of Nurgle should be added as an enemy type at some point, most likely as it's own expansion just like the Beastmen.
The Bretonnian Civil War, whilst interesting, would be difficult to merge into the overarching story, as the Vampires wouldn't have any reason to ally with the Pactsworn.
If we're getting Undead as an enemy type at any point, it would have to be either a Vampire Count or Necromancer throwing in their lot with Chaos (which, in the case of the Vampire, is unlikely).
I highly doubt we're going to take part in any of the major events of the End Times. Vermintide has mostly only concerned itself with smaller-scale events, and I'd rather prefer it stays at that honestly.
@BizarreSalp
I'd honestly rather have co-op survival against Greenskins be it's own stand alone game. While yes, any Orc can be convinced to fight against your foe with the right tone, as Malekith managed to convince Grimgor to fight against Archaon during the Battle of Middenheim, Greenskins are generally of the opinion that Chaos or "Da spiky boyz" put up a better fight than "Da humies", and they often find Skaven untrustworthy even by their own Orc standards, so the chances of them allying with the Pactsworn, whilst a possibility, seems unlikely to me.
Plus, Greenskins on their own have so many units that Fatshark wouldn't be able to fit all of them in for a single DLC. A separate game where the Greenskin roster could be explored much further is way more preferable, in my opinion.
While yes, Nurgle generally has a distaste of those trying to defy death, he has on occassion, as you've pointed out yourself, offered his power to the Undead or at least those with ties to the Undead, such as Heinrich Kemmler, Settra the Imperishable, and Isabella von Carstein (though, she was possessed by a Nurgle Daemon at the time), so the chance of a Necromancer allying with the Pactsworn is not impossible.
The heroes doing a bit of travelling is fine (and I encourage it!), but I feel it has to be within a feasible distance. Anything beyond the Old World seems too far away.
I don't believe we should travel to Karak Zorn. Anyone but Bardin wouldn't have any reason to travel there whatsoever, and even he is hinted to not be searching for the Hold at all.
A Lizardmen Temple-City, likewise. No reason to travel there (beyond grabbing X artifact), and if we did, it would feel very empty without any Lizardmen actually there (and it would take far too much work for Fatshark to create several units of the Lizardmen that would only be used on 1-3 maps).
The Pactsworn threat is in the Reikland, so it makes sense that most of our escapades would take place in that immediate area. People like Kruber and Saltzpyre would probably be reluctant to travel far across the world, leaving the Empire defenseless in the mean time.
New heroes are the safest option, honestly, as long as the hero in question would fit in the base game of course. Bold of you to claim that only 3 options would make sense though, and then two of them is a Skink and Vampire, one of the most exotic and exclusive races in the world, and one of the most distrusted and viled respectively. There are far more options, and we shouldn't try to just restrict it to a finite number (though, I won't act like all options are valid. There are indeed those that are obviously out of the question).
On a last note, I wonder what you mean by "reinvention of the wheel"?
BizarreSalp June 3, 2019, 8:56pm #7
Oh, I don't mean those are the only potential options - I just think three new characters of any stripe are about the max that could fit. A Bretonnian just seems most the most likely to me, hence it being listed - the other two are just the ones I think would be most interesting, so that's totally subjective (well, it all is, but that in particular). I would be genuinely shocked if we got a new character and it wasn't a Bretonnian.
You're right that Greenskins could be their own game, but I dunno if that will happen. Certainly could, but I just don't know. At a certain point of adding enemy factions, there would be a big dilution of the whole "Vermintide" initial concept of the game, but it's fun to consider when we're going all in. Same could really go for undead . . . I think these two would fit most easily into the Vermintide formula, though. Daemons of Nurgle would be amazing, I'd love them, but to do them justice I think they'd also need to work a bit differently, less numerous overall, but far tougher.
When it comes to my thought of going to Karak Zorn, I just figure that it includes a lot of really interesting ideas. Firstly, Karak Zorn is just an open-ended mystery in Warhammer, but kind of a fan favorite. I feel that Bardin would certainly want to find it, even if yeah, it's kind of a cover. I'm sure the relevant dialogue could be very interesting as a result.
Warhammer (and Vermintide) don't exist in a vacuum, though, and the setting and game both embrace the general fantasy concept of being a band of adventurers - exploring lost temples and cities in a jungle (even a jungle itself) is a classic adventure story thing that we haven't done yet. Dwarf Hold-themed maps are also very well liked, so connecting them all just hits a lot of fresh notes.
And while it is a long way, they've travelled other huge distances already, using the Skittergate to go to Norsca. I don't think the distance is really an issue with the magic, the only reason they had to use the Skittergate was because there aren't waystones in Norsca, but they could exist in the Southlands (since the Lizardmen do use teleportation, it's probably something comparable to the Bridge of Shadows).
Fighting Lizardmen wouldn't really fit at all, though, IMO - while you could justify it, they're roughly on the same side in regards to the larger conflict, and it's not like Lizzies would appear anywhere else in a hostile manner. I would imagine that a Temple City would be empty of living Lizardmen, and be overrun by Pactsworn, for whatever reason. Or maybe the heroes are brought there by one of the later-generation Slann, and they fight their way through the Pactsworn to meet/save it and its last defenders, even if just to find out what the hell is going on. I could easily see three distinct maps; a Temple City, a trek through a jungle, and finally arriving at and going through Karak Zorn.
As for the "reinvention of the wheel" thing - I mean that I personally don't have much interest in Fatshark making new game modes or fundamentally changing the gameplay. I would rather them just add in more variables to the existing system, in the way of maps, weapons, characters/careers, enemies, and pickups. Things that make for more unpredictability and variation.
Well, there's obviously a limit on how many races there are in Warhammer (and an even bigger limit on the races that are feasible in the scenario presented in Vermintide), but I don't think 3 is the absolute maximum number.
Sure, Fatshark is already hard-pressed to come up with new melee weapons for Saltzpyre and Sienna, whom only have half of the weapons the rest have, and there's not many unique gameplay mechanics left to explore, so I will agree that that would become an issue at 8+ characters in the game, but as long as we're fine with more or less recycled content from previous characters already in the game, the cap on the maximum number of new characters could increase.
Daemons of Nurgle could still be numerous with Nurglings being the Daemon equivalent of Slaverats or Cultists. Anything above Nurglings, however, would have to be tougher and less numerous, I agree.
While yes, you could say that the U5 are "adventurers" in a sense, they are stalwart defenders of Reikland first and foremost, and their primary motivation is to stop the Pactsworn.
Castle Drachenfels, Karak Azgaraz, Stromdorf, we travelled to all of these because the Skaven threatened the safety of the Empire. Some obscure Lizardmen artifact in the Southlands wouldn't be a direct enough threat to warrant leaving Reikland defenseless (nor do I see why the Pactsworn would have that big of a motivation to travel to the Southlands either?).
Even though travelling through a lost temple or a jungle is "classic" and something we "haven't done yet", doesn't mean it's something that we need to do. Going to Karak Zorn would also kinda ruin the entire mystery around it. Getting to the locations themselves is not the issue, it's more the severe lack of motivation for both the Pactsworn and the heroes to do so.
I didn't want to imply that we were going to fight the Lizardmen (even though some like Mazdamundi have a less than tolerable attitude towards outsiders), just that the Temple-City itself is defined by its inhabitants. It felt strange walking through Karak Azgaraz without seeing a single Dwarf either (one that was actually fighting the Skaven).
And about the whole "reinvention of the wheel" thing, I completely agree. I don't want Fatshark to make any drastic changes either, and just keep the gameplay relatively the same for the years they are going to be supporting the game.
Even though I know many are excited about the upcoming Weave mode, I personally don't have the biggest interest in it. I'd much rather have preferred Beastmen and the Weave mode to be their own separate DLCs, as that would have allowed us to get new content sooner.
BizarreSalp June 4, 2019, 11:02am #9
The thing that people usually consider with the idea of new characters is the voice-acting. Since characters interact with each other, the burden of weaving them all together would get more complicated the more characters are added, plus those new characters will have to react to new content . . . I think it's probably not insurmountable, but it is a valid thought, since the quantity, variety, and quality of the dialogue is one of the things that gives it its charm.
The point I was making about adventurers is that the game serves to make US, the players, feel like adventurers. If having an exotic locale that would appeal to a broader group of people, while not breaking lore, could be done, there's nothing but upsides to doing it.
As for motivation; that's really not challenging in this game, that's what I was trying to say about the mcguffins. I could give you a dozen potential plot lines that could lead to the heroes travelling to the Southlands, along with the Pactsworn. Every single DLC's story justification has been very simple. The reason the heroes went to Drachenfels (an obscure place in lore) was because the devs thought it'd be cool and unique. The reason the heroes went to Karak Azgaraz was because they thought that going into a Dwarf hold would be cool and unique. Gameplay was the consideration here.
About Daemons of Nurgle, though - aren't Nurglings really short? That was the main reason I had kinda mentally discounted them as a common chaff thing. I was under the impression that they were only like a foot tall, definitely under three feet. That might make them a bit too short to really work, since characters would have to look quite far down to hit them. Other than size, though, they would be a good chaff enemy.
I kind of feel the same way about the Weave mode; I think playing around the Weave effects could be quite fun, but the pre-designed nature of it doesn't appeal to me (based on what I know now; I'll certainly give it a shot and hope that it surprised me). I'd be a lot more excited if they kept the AI director and used weekly seeded runs for the leaderboards, or something.
LordRhinark June 6, 2019, 6:45am #10
Yeah, voice-acting might become a problem, as it would exponentially increase as new characters are added. Perhaps Fatshark might need to cut down on that department when it comes to new ones.
BizarreSalp:
I personally disagree, but I can see what you mean.
When I play the game, the first thought that comes to my mind isn't that I'm an "adventurer" that's out "exploring", it's that I'm a hero that's hunting down the forces of evil whereever they decide to lurk.
While yes, the primary motivation for the developers to make Castle Drachenfels and Karak Azgaraz was because it was because the aesthetic of both of these locations was "cool", but the in-game motivation was that the Skaven were lurking there and posing a threat.
The Skaven were looting potentially dangerous artifacts in the former, and were overwhelming the Dwarf Hold and thus breaking one of Reikland's line of defenses in the latter.
But this random Temple-City in the Southlands? I'm not that sold on the idea.
Sure, as you've pointed out plenty of times, it can be justified by looking for some "macguffin", but I find it very hard to believe that both the Skaven and the Norscans would travel all the way to the Southlands to get their hands on something like that.
And for it to tie in with a trip to Karak Zorn as well? I just don't see it.
Again, this is just my opinion, and I can completely understand why others would want a DLC like this (Lizardmen are one of my favourite races in WHFB too), but for me, it just doesn't make enough sense.
Yes, Nurglings are small, and that would pose the biggest challenge if they were ever added to the game, but it could work. It could pose some new indirect mechanic to the game where one of the group has to take the role of looking solely down on the ground and handling the Nurglings while the rest defend him.
The main thing that bothers me is that the Weaves aren't randomly generated. Sure, there's always going to be a different modifier (although, there's only 8 to choose from given that there's only eight Winds) and a different objective, but the map layout and objective is going to be the same everytime for that specific Weave.
I can understand it makes sense when you consider that there's going to be leaderboards for it as well, but it would be nice if there was a casual option where it just randomly generates the map layout, modifier, and objective.
BizarreSalp June 6, 2019, 8:36am #11
@ Temple City idea: That's fair, of course. Always pleased to see another LM fan. Dinosaurs ftw!
When I first started playing Vermintide, I knew almost nothing about Warhammer. I got the game and enjoyed the crap out of it; all I knew was there were the standard fantasy trope characters (in that context, Witch Hunter is the most unusual one, lol). After a month (I think) I got the DLCs, and I didn't really pay attention to the stories; for a long time, it really just felt to me like the setting/lore was just there purely to justify being a party of adventurers saving a city, exploring abandoned evil castles, avenging dead townsfolk . . . So yeah, that was the initial viewpoint I had. Dungeons from Castle Drachenfels was one of my favorites, because if you are ignorant of the setting it's practically like being a DnD party going into any generic dungeon - but the best done simulator of that either, because it genuinely was so moody and dangerous.
That led to me thinking of what other scenarios I'd love to see - exploring a jungle/lost temple was among them.
Nowadays, I'm a real WH lore junkie, I've collected a lot of the older game manuals for the lore tidbits, read a ton of the novels, am preparing to run a WH RPG game . . . My point is entirely just that the way I view Vermintide has changed over time, and from hence come my thoughts on what I would personally like to see.
But yeah, the fact that there won't be randomness doesn't make me too excited about WoM. I really think weekly seeded runs, with leaderboards for each week, would at least sound a lot more interesting. It's always possible, though, that they will change it, or in fact tried it with randomness and it was awful for some reason.
On the topic of there being eight winds; if they ever wanted to expand it, they could potentially add High and Dark magic winds.
And on the original topic; this is why I would like to even see more pick-ups. It'd be okay if some were blatantly better or worse than current things (unless they just break the game). It's cool to have two different types of meds, for example, but it would be also interesting to see some that are less/more effective. Finding worse things would mean you have to make do, potentially change up your tactics/strategy to adjust. It'd kinda suck if supplies were just ultra-rare, but it seems that kinda too often I get to the end of a run having full books, everyone topped off, bombs, pots, full ammo, and four of the most optimal bombs for the finale.
Thoughts on new pickups: some kind of heal over time item, maybe just an ale that gives you some temp health, or rarer stun grenades that stagger but don't damage enemies, could even throw in some Dwarven mechanisms for the Engineer slot, or some spell scrolls.


'I never liked Chris Lilley's stuff anyway' says man who can recite every line of Summer Heights High
A man who owns the original 'We Can Be Heroes' DVD box set and once shared his top ten favourite Mr G moments on Facebook, says he has always found Chris Lilley's work problematic and was shocked that it was ever funded at all.
Joshua Lambert, who lives in Sydney, says the decision to remove Lilley's programs from streaming services couldn't have come soon enough.
"I find the shows very racist. But then I've said that from day one," he said, while quietly removing the Angry Boys best-of compilation video from his desktop.
"It's true, I did watch some of his shows, all of his shows actually, a few of them twice. But I did it because I wanted to witness the racism first hand so I could teach other people about it. I didn't enjoy it," he said.
He said the impersonations he did of Lilley's characters for his friends were purely to highlight their problematic nature. "I wasn't laughing. I have never laughed at his shows or any of his characters".


Home viral HELAL JR
HELAL JR
By thomas panday
Helal Adham Gamil Helal, popularly known as Helal Jr., is a famous Egyptian Boxing champion and a professional mixed martial artist. He was born on 19th December 1995, in Cairo to Adham Helal and Rania Helal.
He completed his education from Lycee Francais Du Caire and then went on to study Product Designing from the University of West England. He also did further studies from Asia Pacific University and graduated from there in 2019.
When he was just 12 years old, he started his career in kickboxing in the year 2007. After doing kickboxing for three years, he switched to martial arts in 2010, which was introduced in Egypt. Along with his cousin, Ali Younis, who was the guiding factor in his life and trained him in kickboxing, they were able to present martial arts on a big scale to people. Both of them used to participate in some underground fights in Cairo before they began to play professionally in the Egyptian Fighting Championship (EFC).
In his sporting career, he participated in EFC is 2012, where he fought against Ibrahim Khaled and lost in the 2nd round by decision. In boxing, he participated in Ring Fighting Championship in June 2018, and won against Velvan Tan, but lost to him in the Ring Fighting Championship held in November 2018.
Some of his achievements include EFC Muay Thai Champion (2011), EFC MMA Bantamweight Champion (2012), EMA Featherweight Champion 2014, and TRFC Light Welterweight Champion (2018).
Besides sports, Helal Jr. ventured into the business line, and in July 2019, he started his own business named BXGLAB. The inspiration to start his own business came to his mind when he had injured his ankle during a practice session. A month post that accident, he could barely walk and hence was bed-ridden. At this point, he got an idea to build a boxing equipment manufacturing company that will provide the best types of equipment for the boxing world. You can check out the materials on https://www.bxglab.com/.
Helal Jr. has a dream of making it big and wants his company to become No. 1 apparel in the country of Malaysia, and among the top best apparels in the whole of Asia.
Helal Jr. is a follower of Islam and also has a sister named Amina Helel. He got married to Nour Rehman recently on 22nd February.
He can speak up to three languages, i.e., Arabic, English, and French. Among his hobbies, he likes to hike, sketch, listen to music, and enjoy car racing. Besides being a champion in the sports arena, he has also proved his mettle in video editing, product designing, and cooking.
Helal Jr. was extremely close to his cousin, Ali Younis, and the latter is said to have a significant influence on his life. It was Younis only who brought Helal Jr. to MMA since the former was an MMA Champion. Helal Jr. often credits his cousin for helping him appreciate the beauty of martial arts.
However, his beloved cousin and mentor sadly met with an accident in 2015 and passed away. But, Helal Jr. didn't lose hope; instead, he worked harder on his dreams to bring martial arts into the world. To date, he says that he draws inspiration from his late brother and sees him as a motivational factor for his accomplishments.
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Home » Children of War: Voices of Iraqi Refugees (Hardcover)
Children of War: Voices of Iraqi Refugees (Hardcover)
By Deborah Ellis
Out of Print - Please call for more information
Paperback (May 25th, 2010): $9.95
Five years have passed since the U.S. and its allies invaded Iraq, and true democracy has yet to come. Four million Iraqis have been displaced; half are living in desolate tent camps, the others mostly stuck in Jordan and Syrian. All face uncertain futures. In this book, Deborah Ellis turns her attention to the war's most tragic victims Iraqi children. She interviews more than 20 young Iraqis, mostly refugees living in Jordan, but also a few trying to build new lives in North America. Some families left Iraq with money; others are penniless, ill, or disabled. Most of the parents are working illegally or not at all, and the fear of deportation is a constant threat. The children speak for themselves, with little editorial comment, and their stories are frank, harrowing, and often reveal a surprising resilience in surviving the consequences of a war in which they played no part.
Publisher: Groundwood Books
Publication Date: February 17th, 2009
Minimum Grade Level: 7
People & Places - Middle East
Social Topics - Violence
History - Military & Wars


Home > Infrastructure > Ports
The Port of Virginia offers one of the largest intermodal networks on the East Coast, handling 2.655 million TEUs (Twenty-Foot Equivalent Units) in 2016, and moving more than 36.7% of its total business by rail. The Port of Virginia operates six terminals.
The Newport News Marine Terminal is the Virginia Port Authority's main break-bulk and roll-on/roll-off facility.
Total Area: 165 acres
Outside Storage: 60 acres
Berth Space: 3,480 Feet
Depth: 40 Feet
Land Access: I-664, US17
Rail: CSX, Norfolk Southern
Water Access: James River
Distance from Mecklenburg County: 140 miles
The Norfolk International Terminal is located in the Hampton Roads Harbor and is the Virginia Port Authority's largest terminal.
Total Area: 567 acres (operating 378 acres)
Berth Space: 6,630 LF
Land Access: I-64, I-564, SR164
Rail: Norfolk Southern, CSX
Water Access: Elizabeth River
Cranes: 14 Super Post-Panamax
The Portsmouth Marine Terminal is able to handle containers, break-bulk, and roll-on/roll-off cargo.
Wharf Length: 3,540 Feet
Land Access: I-264, I-664, SR164
Rail: CSX, Norfolk Southern, Norfolk Portsmouth Beltline
Cranes: 6 Super Post-Panamax
The Virginia Inland Port is an intermodal container transfer facility located approximately 60 miles west of Washington, D.C. It brings the Port of Virginia 220 miles closer to inland markets. It also consolidates and containerizes local cargo for export.
Land Access: I-66, I-81
Rail: Norfolk Southern
The Virginia International Gateway is the largest privately owned marine container terminal in the United States and one of the only functional automated container terminals in the Western Hemisphere. It was constructed as a semi-automated operation, with a mix of manual and automated container handling equipment. Many of the terminal's operations are performed from a centralized terminal operations center.
Rail: Commonwealth Railway, Norfolk Southern, CSX
The Richmond Marine Terminal is available for berthing and handling containers, temperature controlled containers, break-bulk, and neo-bulk cargo.
Wharf Length: 1,570 LF
Land Access: I-95
Cranes: 1 Manitowoc Crawler Crane
Barge: James River Barge Service
Distance from Mecklenburg County: 96 miles
The future Craney Island Marine Terminal will be a state-of-the-art container facility with the capability to handle up to 50 percent of its total volume by rail. It will be designed to handle ultra-large container vessels, direct interchange to the interstate highway system, and double-stack intermodal rail service. The terminal will be planned as a semi-automated operation with a mix of manual and automated container handling equipment.
For more information on the Port of Virginia and its terminals, visit their website at PortOfVirginia.com >
Customs information and regulations may be found on the U.S. Customs Service Web Site, CBP.gov >
Other Ports of Entry
Name Distance
Raleigh-Durham 74 miles
Port of Washington – Dulles 211 miles
* Note: Driving distance from the center of the locality/region to Port of Washington – Dulles and any other port of entry within 100 miles.


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Clement of Alexandria (d. c. 215) vs. Sola Scriptura
April 6, 2017 by Dave Armstrong
Clement of Alexandria (d. c. 215) vs. Sola Scriptura April 6, 2017 Dave Armstrong
St. Clement of Alexandria: icon from before 1800 [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]
(8-1-03)
For preliminaries concerning my methodology and the burden of proof for showing if a Church Father believed in sola Scriptura, see my paper, Church Fathers & Sola Scriptura.
The following passage has been offered as "proof" of Clement's alleged belief in sola Scriptura:
But those who are ready to toil in the most excellent pursuits, will not desist from the search after truth, till they get the demonstration from the Scriptures themselves. (The Stromata, 7:16)
Just as with other such "proofs," this poses no problem for the Catholic outlook. Catholics, too, "demonstrate" things from the Scriptures. Those who doubt this ought to look over the Vatican II documents sometime, or any recent papal encyclical. Scripture is consulted at every turn. But does this mean that Clement adopted the sola Scriptura position, whereby Scripture is somehow pitted against the Church, tradition, and apostolic succession? No. When we examine his writings more closely, we find that he takes the same view as the other Fathers, and it is not sola Scriptura as the regula fidei, or Rule of Faith. Let's start with this same work, and take a look at the context of the above statement. Note especially how Clement explicitly asserts that Christian oral tradition is as authoritative as written tradition:
"Thou, therefore, be strong," says Paul, "in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things which thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also." And again: "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."If, then, both proclaim the Word-the one by writing, the other by speech-are not both then to be approved, making, as they do, faith active by love? It is by one's own fault that he does not choose what is best; God is free of blame. As to the point in hand, it is the business of some to lay out the word at interest, and of others to test it, and either choose it or not. And the judgment is determined within themselves. But there is that species of knowledge which is characteristic of the herald, and that which is, as it were, characteristic of a messenger, and it is serviceable in whatever way it operates, both by the hand and tongue. "For he that soweth to the Spirit, shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well-doing." On him who by Divine Providence meets in with it, it confers the very highest advantages,-the beginning of faith, readiness for adopting a right mode of life, the impulse towards the truth, a movement of inquiry, a trace of knowledge; in a word, it gives the means of salvation.
. . . But the husbandry is twofold,-the one unwritten, and the other written. And in whatever way the Lord's labourer sow the good wheat, and grow and reap the ears, he shall appear a truly divine husbandman.
. . . they preserving the tradition of the blessed doctrine derived directly from the holy apostles, Peter, James, John, and Paul, the sons receiving it from the father (but few were like the fathers), came by God's will to us also to deposit those ancestral and apostolic seeds. And well I know that they will exult; I do not mean delighted with this tribute, but solely on account of the preservation of the truth, according as they delivered it. For such a sketch as this, will, I think, be agreeable to a soul desirous of preserving from escape the blessed tradition.
. . . The dogmas taught by remarkable sects will be adduced; and to these will be opposed all that ought to be premised in accordance with the profoundest contemplation of the knowledge, which, as we proceed to the renowned and venerable canon of tradition, from the creation of the world, will advance to our view; setting before us what according to natural contemplation necessarily has to be treated of beforehand, and clearing off what stands in the way of this arrangement. So that we may have our ears ready for the reception of the tradition of true knowledge; the soil being previously cleared of the thorns and of every weed by the husbandman, in order to the planting of the vine. (The Stromata, Book I, Chapter I: "Preface-The Author's Object-The Utility of Written Compositions")
For the whole Scripture is not in its meaning a single Myconos, as the proverbial expression has it; but those who hunt after the connection of the divine teaching, must approach it with the utmost perfection of the logical faculty. (The Stromata, Book I, Chapter XXVIII.-"The Fourfold Division of the Mosaic Law")
The liars, then, in reality are not those who for the sake of the scheme of salvation conform, nor those who err in minute points, but those who are wrong in essentials, and reject the Lord and as far as in them lies deprive the Lord of the true teaching; who do not quote or deliver the Scriptures in a manner worthy of God and of the Lord; for the deposit rendered to God, according to the teaching of the Lord by His apostles, is the understanding and the practice of the godly tradition. "And what ye hear in the ear " – that is, in a hidden manner, and in a mystery (for such things are figuratively said to be spoken in the ear) – "proclaim," He says, "on the housetops," understanding them sublimely, and delivering them in a lofty strain, and according to the canon of the truth explaining the Scriptures; for neither prophecy nor the Saviour Himself announced the divine mysteries simply so as to be easily apprehended by all and sundry, but express them in parables. The apostles accordingly say of the Lord, that "He spake all things in parables, and without a parable spake He nothing unto them;" and if "all things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made," consequently also prophecy and the law were by Him, and were spoken by Him in parables. "But all things are right," says the Scripture, "before those who understand," that is, those who receive and observe, according to the ecclesiastical rule, the exposition of the Scriptures explained by Him; and the ecclesiastical rule is the concord and harmony of the law and the prophets in the covenant delivered at the coming of the Lord. (The Stromata, Book VI, Chapter XV: "Different Degrees of Knowledge"; cf. ANF II:509)
(Note: ANF = The Ante-Nicene Fathers: The Writings of the Fathers Down to A.D. 325, edited by Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, A. Cleveland Cox, and A. Menzies, 10 volumes, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1951-1956)
In the same Book VII of the Stromata which was cited at the top of this paper, in the chapter (XV) before his citation above, Clement writes:
. . . so also are we bound in no way to transgress the canon of the Church. And especially do we keep our profession in the most important points, while they [the heretics] traverse it. Those, then, are to be believed, who hold firmly to the truth.. . . it is necessary to condescend to questions, and to ascertain by way of demonstration by the Scriptures themselves how the heresies failed, and how in the truth alone and in the ancient Church is both the exactest knowledge, and the truly best set of principles (airesis).
He then begins the next chapter (just three paragraphs later) with the words above: at the top:
But those who are ready to toil in the most excellent pursuits, will not desist from the search after truth, till they get the demonstration from the Scriptures themselves.
But context, of course, shows conclusively that he is not conceiving Holy Scripture as a formally sufficient principle in and of itself, over against the Church and Tradition, since he also states — a mere three paragraphs previously — that "in the ancient Church is . . . the exactest knowledge." In other words, he writes and thinks precisely as Catholics and Orthodox do, not as Protestants, who would scarcely ever say that the ancient Church possessed "exactest knowledge," as it believed in a host of things which many or most Protestants reject (baptismal regeneration, infused justification, merit, the office of the priesthood, invocation and intercession of saints, prayers for the dead, penance, various tenets of Mariology, episcopacy, the Eucharistic sacrifice, the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, etc., etc.). One could not hope to find a clearer proof that Clement would reject sola Scriptura as Protestants conceive and apply it (as a Rule of Faith and formal principle), and in the immediate context of the alleged "prooftext," at that.
Shortly afterwards (five paragraphs later), he writes about how the heretics pervert the true meaning of Scripture, which must be determined by the Church and Tradition. This is strictly contrary to sola Scriptura as Protestants understand it, and is exactly the way that Catholics then and now view such matters:
Now all men, having the same judgment, some, following the Word speaking, frame for themselves proofs; while others, giving themselves up to pleasures, wrest Scripture, in accordance with their lusts. And the lover of truth, as I think, needs force of soul. For those who make the greatest attempts must fail in things of the highest importance; unless, receiving from the truth itself the rule of the truth, they cleave to the truth. But such people, in consequence of falling away from the right path, err in most individual points; as you might expect from not having the faculty for judging of what is true and false, strictly trained to select what is essential. For if they had, they would have obeyed the Scriptures.
As, then, if a man should, similarly to those drugged by Circe, become a beast; so he, who has spurned the ecclesiastical tradition, and darted off to the opinions of heretical men, has ceased to be a man of God and to remain faithful to the Lord.
He then follows up with a superb description of how the heretics (particularly the Gnostics) do not know how to interpret Holy Scripture properly. Catholics would not disagree with a single word of it. Note, however, how he freely incorporates in his discussion of solid hermeneutics, the standard and criterion of orthodoxy, the Church, and Sacred Tradition:
Seeing, therefore, the danger that they are in (not in respect of one dogma, but in reference to the maintenance of the heresies) of not discovering the truth; for while reading the books we have ready at hand, they despise them as useless, but in their eagerness to surpass common faith, they have diverged from the truth. For, in consequence of not learning the mysteries of ecclesiastical knowledge, and not having capacity for the grandeur of the truth, too indolent to descend to the bottom of things, reading superficially, they have dismissed the Scriptures.
. . . So, then, they are not pious, inasmuch as they are not pleased with the divine commands, that is, with the Holy Spirit. And as those almonds are called empty in which the contents are worthless, not those in which there is nothing; so also we call those heretics empty, who are destitute of the counsels of God and the traditions of Christ; bitter, in truth, like the wild almond, their dogmas originating with themselves, with the exception of such truths as they could not, by reason of their evidence, discard and conceal.
Near the end of the chapter, he sums up the approach of the orthodox Christian, who:
. . . having grown old in the Scriptures, and maintaining apostolic and ecclesiastic orthodoxy in doctrines, lives most correctly in accordance with the Gospel, and discovers the proofs, for which he may have made search (sent forth as he is by the Lord), from the law and the prophets . . . nothing but deeds and words corresponding to the tradition of the Lord. (The Stromata, Book VII, Chapter XVI: "Scripture the Criterion by Which Truth and Heresy are Distinguished"; cf. ANF II:550-554)
The next chapter (XVII) is entitled, "The Tradition of the Church Prior to That of the Heresies." I shall cite almost all of it:
Those, then, that adhere to impious words, and dictate them to others, inasmuch as they do not make a right but a perverse use of the divine words, neither themselves enter into the kingdom of heaven, nor permit those whom they have deluded to attain the truth. But not having the key of entrance, but a false (and as the common phrase expresses it), a counterfeit key (antikleis), by which they do not enter in as we enter in, through the tradition of the Lord, by drawing aside the curtain; but bursting through the side-door, and digging clandestinely through the wall of the Church, and stepping over the truth, they constitute themselves the Mystagogues of the soul of the impious.For that the human assemblies which they held were posterior to the Catholic Church requires not many words to show.
. . . it is evident, from the high antiquity and perfect truth of the Church, that these later heresies, and those yet subsequent to them in time, were new inventions falsified [from the truth].
From what has been said, then, it is my opinion that the true Church, that which is really ancient, is one, and that in it those who according to God's purpose are just, are enrolled. For from the very reason that God is one, and the Lord one, that which is in the highest degree honourable is lauded in consequence of its singleness, being an imitation of the one first principle. In the nature of the One, then, is associated in a joint heritage the one Church, which they strive to cut asunder into many sects.
Therefore in substance and idea, in origin, in pre-eminence, we say that the ancient and Catholic Church is alone, collecting as it does into the unity of the one faith – which results from the peculiar Testaments, or rather the one Testament in different times by the will of the one God, through one Lord – those already ordained, whom God predestinated, knowing before the foundation of the world that they would be righteous.
But the pre-eminence of the Church, as the principle of union, is, in its oneness, in this surpassing all things else, and having nothing like or equal to itself. But of this afterwards.
Of the heresies, some receive their appellation from a [person's] name, as that which is called after Valentinus, and that after Marcion, and that after Basilides, although they boast of adducing the opinion of Matthew [without truth]; for as the teaching, so also the tradition of the apostles was one. Some take their designation from a place, as the Peratici; some from a nation, as the [heresy] of the Phrygians; some from an action, as that of the Encratites; and some from peculiar dogmas, as that of the Docetae, and that of the Harmatites; and some from suppositions, and from individuals they have honoured, as those called Cainists, and the Ophians; and some from nefarious practices and enormities, as those of the Simonians called Entychites.
J. N. D. Kelly expounds upon Clement's conception of the Church, which had both an invisible and a visible element, but yet is far closer to Catholic ecclesiology than Protestant:
. . . at Alexandria, as we might expect, while the visible Church received its meed of recognition, the real focus of interest tended to be the invisible Church . . . Clement, for example, is ready enough to use the empirical categories and to distinguish [Strom. 7,17,107] 'the ancient and Catholic Church' from heretical conventicles. This is the Church in which the apostolic tradition is enshrined, and to which those whom God predestines to righteousness belong. Like God Himself, it is one [Paed. I,4,10]; it is also the virgin mother of Christians, feeding them on the Logos as holy milk [Ib. I,6,42; cf. I,5,21] . . .Platonizing influences were clearly at work in Clement's distinction between the visible but imperfect Church and the perfect spiritual one . . . (Early Christian Doctrines, HarperSanFrancisco, revised 1978 edition, 201-202)
In describing both Clement's and Origen's views, Kelly notes how they both presupposed Christian Tradition in their quest for gnosis (deeper knowledge):
[They] went so far as to distinguish two types of Christianity, with two grades of Christians corresponding to them. The first and lower type was based on 'faith', i.e. the literal acceptance of the truths declared in Scripture and the Church's teaching, while the second and higher type was described as 'gnosis', i.e. an esoteric form of knowledge. This started with the Bible and tradition, indeed was founded on them, but its endeavour was to unravel their deeper meaning.The position of both of them, it is true, is complicated by the fact that, in addition to the Church's public tradition, they believed they had access to a secret traditin of doctrine. Clement . . . regarded [E.g., Strom. 6,7,61; 6,8,68; 6,15,131] it as stemming from the apostles and including quasi-Gniostic speculations, while for Origen it seems to have consisted of an esoteric theology based on the Bible; in both cases it was reserved for the intellectual elite of the Church. Although Clement seems to have confused his secret Gnostic tradition with 'the ecclesiastical canon', he had clear ideas about the latter, and defined [Ib. 6.15.125] it as 'the congruence and harmony of the law and the prophets with the covenant delivered at the Lord's parousia'. According to Origen, the rule of faith, or canon, was the body of beliefs currently accepted by ordinary Christians; or again, it could stand for the whole content of the faith . . . he meant by it the Christian faith as taught in the Church of his day and handed down from the apostles. Though its contents coincided with those of the Bible, it was formally independent of the Bible, and indeed included the principles of Biblical interpretation. (Ibid., 5, 43)
Note in the last sentence how Origen — much like Clement and the other Fathers — distinguished between the formal and material sufficiency of the Bible. The "rule of faith" or "canon" or Sacred Tradition or orthodox teaching or apostolic deposit of the Church was "formally independent" of the Bible, yet its contents "coincided" with Scripture (which includes all the necessary theological tenets and teaching), and also included principles of hermeneutics or biblical interpretation. This is precisely the Catholic view. Kelly then sums up Clement's position, citing a passage we have examined above:
. . . the ancient idea that the Church alone, in virtue of being the home of the Spirit and having preserved the authentic apostolic testimony in her rule of faith, liturgical action and general witness, possesses the indispensable key to Scripture, continued to operate as powerfully as in the days of Irenaeus and Tertullian. Clement, for example, blamed [Strom. 7,16,103] the mistakes of heretics on their habit of 'resisting the divine tradition', by which he meant their incorrect interpretation of Scripture; the true interpretation, he believed, was an apostolic and ecclesiastical inheritance. (Ibid., 47)
Historian Jaroslav Pelikan essentially concurs with Kelly's judgment:
. . . no one can fail to be reminded of Gnosticism when he reads Clement's claim to possess a secret tradition, neither published in the New Testament nor known to the common people; one of his terms for the secret tradition was "gnosis." . . . would one be justified in regarding Clement and Origen as the right wing of Christian Gnosticism rather than as the left wing of Christian orthodoxy? A consideration of the entire body of their thought makes such an interpretation, however attractive it may be, finally untenable . . . (The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine: Vol. 1 of 5: The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition: 100-600, Chicago: Univ. of Chicago Press, 1971, 96)
Thus Dr. Pelikan, a great scholar who knows how to examine the entirety of a thinker's outlook, doesn't fall into the foolish trap of finding isolated snippets which sound "Gnostic," and concluding that Clement was a heretic. In other words, he doesn't make the same fundamental methodological mistake that anti-Catholic polemicists make: extreme neglect of context leading to a radically mistaken notion of what Clement believed (in this instance, on the relationship of Bible, Tradition, and Church).
The eminent Protestant Church historian Philip Schaff describes the perspective of the Ante-Nicene Fathers generally, concerning Scripture, Church, and Tradition, and includes Clement among their number:
Nor is any distinction made here between a visible and an invisible church. All catholic antiquity thought of none but the actual, historical church . . .The fathers of our period all saw in the church, though with different degrees of clearness, a divine, supernatural order of things, in a certain sense the continuation of the life of Christ on earth, the temple of the Holy Spirit, the sole repository of the powers of divine life, the possessor and interpreter of the Holy Scriptures, the mother of all the faithful . . .
Equally inseparable from her is the predicate of apostolicity, that is, the historical continuity or unbroken succession, which reaches back through the bishops to the apostles, from the apostles to Christ, and from Christ to God. In the view of the fathers, every theoretical departure from this empirical, tangible, catholic church is heresy, that is, arbitrary, subjective, ever changing human opinion; every practical departure, all disobedience to her rulers is schism, or dismemberment of the body of Christ; either is rebellion against divine authority, and a heinous, if not the mosty heinous, sin. No heresy can reach the conception of the church, or rightly claim any one of her predicates; it forms at best a sect or party, and consequently falls within the province and the fate of human and perishing things, while the church is divine and indestructible.
This is without doubt the view of the ante-Nicene fathers, even of the speculative and spiritualistic Alexandrians . . .
Even Clement of Alexandria, and Origen, with all their spiritualistic and idealizing turn of mind, are no exception here. (History of the Christian Church, Vol. II: Ante-Nicene Christianity: A.D. 100-325, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1970; reproduction of 5th revised edition of 1910, Chapter IV, section 53, "The Catholic Unity," pp. 169-170, 172)
Schaff's characterization of the views of the Fathers in this same period concerning Tradition is also perfectly consistent with the Catholic perspective and my own general thesis throughout this paper. His natural (somewhat charming) Protestant bias is obvious (e.g., "traditions of later origin, not grounded in the scriptures," "blind and slavish subjection of private judgment to ecclesiastical authority"), yet he fairly cites the facts of history, as always:
Besides appealing to the Scriptures, the fathers, particularly Irenaeus and Tertullian, refer with equal confidence to the "rule of faith;" that is, the common faith of the church, as orally handed down in the unbroken succession of bishops from Christ and his apostles to their day, and above all as still living in the original apostolic churches, like those of Jerusalem, Antioch, Ephesus, and Rome. Tradition is thus intimately connected with the primitive episcopate. The latter was the vehicle of the former, and both were looked upon as bulwarks against heresy.Irenaeus confronts the secret tradition of the Gnostics with the open and unadulterated tradition of the catholic church, and points to all churches, but particularly to Rome, as the visible centre of the unity of doctrine. All who would know the truth, says he, can see in the whole church the tradition of the apostles; and we can count the bishops ordained by the apostles, and their successors down to our time, who neither taught nor knew any such heresies. Then, by way of example, he cites the first twelve bishops of the Roman church from Linus to Eleutherus, as witnesses of the pure apostolic doctrine. He might conceive of a Christianity without scripture, but he could not imagine a Christianity without living tradition; and for this opinion he refers to barbarian tribes, who have the gospel, "sine charta et atramento," written in their hearts.
Tertullian finds a universal antidote for all heresy in his celebrated prescription argument, which cuts off heretics, at the outset, from every right of appeal to the holy scriptures, on the ground, that the holy scriptures arose in the church of Christ, were given to her, and only in her and by her can be rightly understood. He calls attention also here to the tangible succession, which distinguishes the catholic church from the arbitrary and ever-changing sects of heretics, and which in all the principal congregations, especially in the original sects of the apostles, reaches back without a break from bishop to bishop, to the apostles themselves, from the apostles to Christ, and from Christ to God. "Come, now," says he, in his tract on Prescription, "if you would practise inquiry to more advantage in the matter of your salvation, go through the apostolic churches, in which the very chairs of the apostles still preside, in which their own authentic letters are publicly read, uttering the voice and representing the face of every one. If Achaia is nearest, you have Corinth. If you are not far from Macedonia, you have Philippi, you have Thessalonica. If you can go to Asia, you have Ephesus. But if you live near Italy, you have Rome, whence also we [of the African church] derive our origin. How happy is the church, to which the apostles poured out their whole doctrine with their blood," etc.
To estimate the weight of this argument, we must remember that these fathers still stood comparatively very near the apostolic age, and that the succession of bishops in the oldest churches could be demonstrated by the living memory of two or three generations. Irenaeus in fact, had been acquainted in his youth with Polycarp, a disciple of St. John. But for this very reason we must guard against overrating this testimony, and employing it in behalf of traditions of later origin, not grounded in the scriptures.
Nor can we suppose that those fathers ever thought of a blind and slavish subjection of private judgment to ecclesiastical authority, and to the decision of the bishops of the apostolic mother churches. The same Irenaeus frankly opposed the Roman bishop Victor. Tertullian, though he continued essentially orthodox, contested various points with the catholic church from his later Montanistic position, and laid down, though at first only in respect to a conventional custom – the veiling of virgins – the genuine Protestant principle, that the thing to be regarded, especially in matters of religion, is not custom but truth. His pupil, Cyprian, with whom biblical and catholic were almost interchangeable terms, protested earnestly against the Roman theory of the validity of heretical baptism, and in this controversy declared, in exact accordance with Tertullian, that custom without truth was only time-honored error. The Alexandrians freely fostered all sorts of peculiar views, which were afterwards rejected as heretical; and though the [Greek] plays a prominent part with them, yet this and similar expressions have in their language a different sense, sometimes meaning simply the holy scriptures. So, for example, in the well-known passage of Clement: "As if one should be changed from a man to a beast after the manner of one charmed by Circe; so a man ceases to be God's and to continue faithful to the Lord, when he sets himself up against the church tradition, and flies off to positions of human caprice."
In the substance of its doctrine this apostolic tradition agrees with the holy scriptures, and though derived, as to its form, from the oral preaching of the apostles, is really, as to its contents, one and the same with those apostolic writings. In this view the apparent contradictions of the earlier fathers, in ascribing the highest authority to both scripture and tradition in matters of faith, resolve themselves. It is one and the same gospel which the apostles preached with their lips, and then laid down in their writings, and which the church faithfully hands down by word and writing from one generation to another.
(History of the Christian Church, Vol. II: Ante-Nicene Christianity: A.D. 100-325, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1970; reproduction of 5th revised edition of 1910, Chapter XII, section 139, "Catholic Tradition," pp. 525-528 {complete, minus footnotes: see the web version below} )
Note again how material sufficiency of Scripture is wholeheartedly accepted:
1. "In the substance of its doctrine this apostolic tradition agrees with the holy scriptures"
2. "as to its contents, one and the same"
3. "Cyprian, with whom biblical and catholic were almost interchangeable terms"
4. "It is one and the same gospel which the apostles preached with their lips, and then laid down in their writings"
The formal sufficiency of Scripture as a Rule of Faith, on the other hand, is denied:
1. "the 'rule of faith;' that is, the common faith of the church, as orally handed down in the unbroken succession of bishops from Christ and his apostles"
2. "unadulterated tradition of the catholic church"
3. [For Tertullian] "the holy scriptures arose in the church of Christ, were given to her, and only in her and by her can be rightly understood"
4. [Clement's words] "so a man ceases to be God's and to continue faithful to the Lord, when he sets himself up against the church tradition"
My thesis could not be any more explicitly upheld, and by a Protestant historian: one who (I highly suspect) has never been accused of Catholic bias . . .
apostolic succession
apostolic tradition
authoritative Church
authoritative tradition
Bible Only
Christian Authority
Clement of Alexandria
Clement of Alexandria & sola Scriptura
Fathers & sola Scriptura
infallible Church
Rule of Faith
Three-Legged Stool
Irenaeus (d. c. 200) vs. Sola Scriptura
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Arsenal release injury news on three key first-team stars ahead of Burnley clash
Arsenal manager Mikel Arteta is sweating over the fitness of David Luiz and Thomas Partey ahead of Sunday's clash with Burnley, while Gabriel Martinelli is close to a long-awaited return
Arsenal have provided an update on the fitness of David Luiz, Thomas Partey and long-term absentee Gabriel Martinelli ahead of their clash with Burnley on Sunday night.
Mikel Arteta is in desperate need of a victory at Turf Moor this weekend, having failed to claim three points in the Premier League since their 1-0 win away at Manchester United on November 1.
They will be without Nicolas Pepe at The Emirates, nevertheless, as the £72million star is set to serve the last of a three-match suspension following his red card in last month's 0-0 draw away at Leeds.
Arsenal ace Nicolas Pepe is set to serve the last of his three-match suspension against Burnley on Sunday (Image: MOLLY DARLINGTON/POOL/AFP via Getty Images)
Arsenal chief Vinai Venkatesham offers verdict on Mikel Arteta after recent struggles
The Gunners are also sweating over the fitness of Luiz, who was involved in a sickening head clash with Raul Jimenez during their recent 2-1 defeat at home to Wolves.
While his injury didn't compare to that of Jimenez, who was rushed to hospital after fracturing his skull, the Brazilian sustained a deep cut on his head which forced him to come off at half-time in that game.
David Luiz is a doubt to feature as he continues to recover from the deep gash he suffered after a sickening clash of heads with Raul Jimenez (Image: Catherine Ivill/POOL/EPA-EFE/REX/Shutterstock)
He was not involved in last week's 2-0 defeat away at north London rivals Tottenham, and Arsenal have confirmed he will continue to be assessed ahead of Sunday's showdown with Burnley having followed all concussion protocols.
One man who definitely won't be fit in time is Partey, having aggravated the same thigh injury that kept him out of action for just under a month in the loss at Spurs.
Thomas Partey will not be involved after aggravating a thigh problem in last weekend's 2-0 defeat away at Tottenham
The new £45million recruit, hobbled off the pitch as Harry Kane tucked away Spurs' second goal on the night, will be unavailable for Arsenal's forthcoming matches.
However, in a more positive injury update for Arteta, it may not be long until Martinelli makes his long-awaited return from the knee injury which has kept him out of action since June.
Gabriel Martinelli is back in full training after recovering from a knee injury which has kept him out of action for the last six months
The 19-year-old played 45 minutes for Arsenal's Under-21 side in the EFL Trophy on Tuesday night and, having recovered well, is now back in full training with the senior team.
The north London outfit will be looking to record their first home win in over two months when Burnley visit The Emirates on Sunday evening.


« Another Confession | Main | The End of My Blackness - Part 7 »
Why I'm Not A Democrat
Perusing JPB's site can be a very cool experience. Check this out from 'T'.
According to The New York Times, Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano, reflecting on her party's recent losses in the presidential, Senate and House elections, asked: "How did a party that is filled with people with values -- and I am a person with values -- get tagged as the party without values?"
As one who was raised a Democrat and became a Republican only 10 years ago, I would like to answer Gov. Napolitano's question as honestly as she posed it.
Gov. Napolitano, your party does indeed have very many people with values in it. But the Democratic Party is no more representative of the average Democrat's values than the National Council of Churches is of the average Protestant's values. Both are far to the left of their membership.
Here is the Democratic Party as most Americans, including this John F. Kennedy liberal -- a New York City born and raised, Jewish, Ivy League-educated intellectual who lives in Los Angeles -- see it.
To most Americans, Michael Moore is a Marxist who has utter contempt for most of his fellow Americans, who goes abroad and tells huge audiences how stupid and venal his country is, and in his dishonest propaganda film, portrays the American military as callous buffoons. Yet, this radical was given the most honored seat at the Democratic Party convention in Boston, next to former President Jimmy Carter.
To most Americans, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are race-baiting demagogues. Yet they are heroes to the Democratic Party. Most Americans do not see their country as the bigoted and racist nation regularly depicted by both black and white Democratic leaders.
To most Americans, a man who wears women's clothing to work is a pathetic person in need of psychotherapy. To the Democratic Party, he is a man whose cross-dressing is merely another expression of multiculturalism. The California legislature, which is entirely controlled by Democrats, passed a law prohibiting any employer from firing a man who shows up to work wearing women's clothing.
To most Americans, Eminem is a vulgar nihilist who poisons young Americans' minds. To John Kerry he was a man whose anti-Bush hate video was worthy of endorsement.
To most Americans, obscenity-filled evenings should be restricted to R-rated films or a Las Vegas comedy act, not a major party's fund raiser attended by its candidates for president of the United States. To Democrats, those who object to such evenings are regarded as judgmental, hypocritical and narrow minded.
To most Americans, Hollywood stars are regarded as terrific to watch in films but also as narcissistic ingrates when, between private jet trips to Cuba and Cannes, they express their contempt for traditional America. That the Democrats have a veritable monopoly on support from folks like Sean Penn and Robert "Castro-is-a-great-leader" Redford may give Democrats a heady feeling, but for tens of millions of Americans it merely reinforces their belief that the Democratic Party shares Hollywood's values. Even The New York Times, in a post-election analysis, wrote of "the possibility that activist entertainers' fervent endorsements might have cost Mr. Kerry the election."
To most Americans, the American military is not only heroic; it is regarded as more important to safeguarding freedom than any other human institution, including the ACLU, the United Nations or the university, to cite three major Democratic Party affiliates. To virtually the entire Left, which includes the Democratic Party, the military is, at best, a necessary evil. Otherwise, the overriding doctrine is "Make love, not war." That is why Harvard still refuses to allow ROTC training -- and it is unlikely that either of the Massachusetts senators even finds that wrong, let alone as reprehensible as most Americans do.
To most Americans, gays are fellow Americans who happen to be homosexual and who should be accorded the same respect any fellow American is accorded. But most Americans also believe that America should retain the millennia-old definition of marriage as man-woman. They regard liberal judges who take it upon themselves to redefine marriage with contempt. And these judges are identified with the Democrats.
Whatever their views on abortion and abortion rights, the vast majority of Americans view the abortion of a viable fetus/baby (partial-birth abortion) as immoral. The Democratic candidate and his fellow Democrats repeatedly voted against a ban on this practice.
Gov. Napolitano, I hope that this short list answers your question about how it is that your party has gotten tagged as "the party without values." Indeed, the real question, as this observer sees it, is how has this party retained so many people who have traditional American values?
November 10, 2004 in A Punch in the Nose | Permalink


2020 Royals Game Recaps
Royals lose 4-1 to the Twins in Curveball: The Ride
curveball
By Matthew LaMar Aug 17, 2020, 11:37pm EDT
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Photo by Hannah Foslien/Getty Images
Hello, Royals fans! Welcome to the recap for Monday night's Major League Baseball game between your Kansas City Royals and the Minnesota Twins, played at beautiful Target Field in Minneapolis. Alternatively, you may call this experience Curveball: The Ride, an experience specifically designed for you to forget what it's like to see fastballs thrown to Royals hitters. The Royals lost this experience 4-1, their sole run coming as a smashing hot home run off the bat of Hunter Dozier.
To recap: First, Matt Wisler came to the mound. The 27-year-old with a career ERA of 5.20 entering this season landed on something with the Twins this year, and thing was "I Only Throw Curveballs Now." This was a completely foreign concept to the Royals, who managed one for realsies baserunner against Wisler in two innings—a Hunter Dozier walk. Wisler threw 90% of his pitches as curveballs, a fitting opener for Curveball: The Ride.
Second, the Royals faced Devin Smeltzer, the 24-year-old who looks like a 34-year-old who, nevertheless, shares Wisler's disdain for fastballs. Smeltzer has only been throwing fastballs at a 35% clip this year, but threw only 20% fastballs against the Royals, mainly leaning on a changeup that he threw for 45% of all pitches. He, too, stymied the Royals, allowing one single to Nicky Lopez and one walk to Alex Gordon.
The Royals then faced Tyler Clippard, the third pitcher in Curveball: The Ride. Kansas City mounted the closest thing to an attack against the Twins in in the fifth inning when, after Gordon's walk, Whit Merrifield almost crushed a game-tying home run. But it did not leave the yard, and Merrifield was thrown out at second base, thus ending the inning. Like Wisler, Clippard only threw 10% fastballs.
On the Royals' pitching side, Kris Bubic was unimpressive for the second consecutive start. Nelson Cruz hit a booming shot at roughly a billion miles an hour for a solo home run in the fourth inning, and the Twins tacked on another run via two walks and a Byron Buxton single. Bubic only tossed 4.1 innings, allowing eight baserunners—including four walks—while only striking out four. His command was not there, and Bubic was unable to put away a majority of the Twins lineup and required 96 pitches to labor through his start.
The Royals once again mounted an offensive against the Twins in the top of the seventh inning. Against new pitcher Tyler Duffey, Maikel Franco doubled down the left field line. Gordon then lifted a curveball (what else, lol) into shallow right field for a single, sending Franco to third base. But it fizzled, as Adalberto Mondesi struck out, and Merrifield hit a grounder up the middle into a smart shift.
At this point, I would like to quote J. R. R. Tolkien: "Not all who wander are lost." It's a great quote. An inspiring one. Unfortunately, it has no bearing on Mondesi, who is lost as shit right now. He has an OPS—an OPS—of .389 over his last ten games, and he went 0 for 3 tonight.
Anyway, the Twins added another two runs, one in the sixth and another in the seventh. The one in the seventh was yet another home run off the bat of Cruz, who is hitting something to the tune of .598/.897/1.598 or something against the Royals this year (I didn't look it up). The Royals added their sole run from Hunter Dozier, who obliterated yet another non-fastball to center field. Here it is. It was nice!
The ball went an estimated 441 feet and came off the bat at 105.4 MPH.
Overall, the Royals had 35 plate appearances in Curveball: The Ride and only saw 28 fastballs, which, as you can see, is less than one per plate appearance. The Royals did not pass or collect $200, and struck out nine times against two walks.
Next, the Royals are scheduled to play the Cincinnati Reds in Kansas City. However, the Reds are in our favorite kind of situation, Covid limbo, and it might not happen. Should the games be postponed, the Royals' next series is...against the Twins, on Friday. Wheeee!
The Royals are 9-14 and are losers of three of their last four games.


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Story: Alternative health therapies
Alternative health therapies are increasingly popular in New Zealand in the early 21st century. Many people have turned to treatments that would once have been considered exotic, including acupuncture, Chinese herbs, homeopathy and spiritual healing.
Story by Kerryn Pollock
Main image: Massage treatment, Queenstown Chiropractic Clinic
What are alternative health therapies?
Chiropractic, osteopathy and massage
Homeopathy and naturopathy
Asian alternative-health therapies
Religion, spirituality and health care
External links and sources
All images & media in this story
New Zealanders' use of alternative health practitioners
Natural health products protest
Pizzle pills
Alternative health therapies include a range of practices and products. Rather than using drugs and surgery, most treatments are intended to help the body heal itself or improve wellbeing. Because some of these therapies have not been scientifically verified, some people argue that they do not work.
People may choose alternative treatment because they are dissatisfied with conventional medicine, or they prefer not to take drugs. The 2006/07 New Zealand Health Survey found that almost one in five adults had visited an alternative health practitioner in the previous year.
Recognition and regulation
There is some scientific evidence for the value of acupuncture, chiropractic and osteopathy, and these treatments are sometimes used in the conventional health system.
Most alternative health practices are unregulated – anyone can practise them, whether they are trained or not. However, there are organisations that monitor practitioners. Some doctors also use alternative treatments.
Chiropractors adjust the spine to correct problems, which they believe allows the body to heal itself.
Osteopaths gently manipulate the body to correct imbalances between different parts.
Massage is used to help people relax or to fix aches and strains.
Homeopathy is a system of alternative health treatment based on the idea that like cures like – a substance that causes symptoms in a healthy person can treat those symptoms in a sick person. Remedies are made by diluting substances such as plants and minerals.
Naturopathy and rongoā
Naturopathy can include herbal medicines, vitamins, homeopathy, massage and other natural treatments. Rongoā – traditional Māori medicine – was used again in the 21st century.
Hypnotherapy uses hypnosis to put the patient into a very relaxed state in which they are receptive to suggestions, such as sleeping better or getting over depression.
Traditional Chinese medicine heals people using herbal medicine, acupuncture (where fine needles are inserted into points on the body) and exercises. Some doctors – and even some vets – also use it.
Spiritual healing uses faith in religion for healing purposes. It can involve prayers, commands and physical acts like the laying on of hands. Meditation involves calming and controlling the mind. Yoga involves breathing exercises, postures and physical exercises.
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Next: Page 1. What are alternative health therapies? Next
How to cite this page:
Kerryn Pollock, 'Alternative health therapies', Te Ara - the Encyclopedia of New Zealand, http://www.TeAra.govt.nz/en/alternative-health-therapies (accessed 16 January 2021)
Story by Kerryn Pollock, published 5 May 2011, reviewed & revised 6 Apr 2018
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Richard Cook is a British painter living and working in Newlyn, Cornwall. Born in Cheltenham in 1947, he spent his early childhood in Ceylon (present day Sri Lanka). From 1966 - 70 he trained at St Martin's School of Art, London, and at the Royal College of Art until 1973.
Cook has been exhibiting since 1976 (The Human Clay held at the Hayward Gallery in 1976 - selected by RB Kitaj) and has received awards from the British Council and the Arts Council. In 2001 he was given a solo show at Tate St Ives, with a related publication, and a major painting was acquired for the collection in 2006.
2016 She lies within my sleep, Felix & Spear, London
© 2022 Felix & Spear (Fine Art) Limited. All Rights Reserved.
71 St Mary's Road, London W5 5RG info@felixandspear.com
Tel:+44 (0) 20 8566 1574


1994 NR 1 season
Rent this show
Adapted from George Eliot's novel, this BBC miniseries tells the story of virtuous Dr. Lydgate, who heads up Middlemarch's hospital, and well-do-to Dorothea, who's determined to help the needy.
Juliet Aubrey, Douglas Hodge, Robert Hardy, Peter Jeffrey, Trevyn McDowell, Rufus Sewell, Jonathan Firth, Julian Wadham, Colum Convey, Simon Chandler, Stephen Moore, Rosemary Martin, Caroline Harker
Drama, TV Miniseries, Social Issue Dramas, British TV Dramas
Romantic, Heartfelt, Emotional
Summary of Season 1 (1994) - 2 discs
Adapted from George Eliot's novel, this BBC miniseries tells the story of virtuous Dr. Lydgate (Douglas Hodge), who heads up Middlemarch's hospital, and well-do-to Dorothea (Juliet Aubrey), who's determined to help the needy. Along the way, the dreams of these two altruists are derailed by bad marriages and selfish people, yet they also play a part in their own demise. Will this deserving pair find happiness in the twisty-turny conclusion?
Full Screen 1.33:1
English: Dolby Digital 2.0 Stereo
NR - Not rated. This movie has not been rated by the MPAA.


The third annual North Dakota Women's Startup Weekend turned out another handful of early stage startups once again. Four teams pitched and built on their ideas over the course of the weekend, beginning the evening of Friday, April 11, and concluding last night with the final presentations.
In first place was team "How the F" lead by Hannah Savoy. Savoy's original Friday night pitch was a project inspired by her own life experience; a content site geared towards twenty-somethings teaching them "how to adult." Their final project is a website that will produce daily content with a focus on video, each tackling different tasks that cause people to wonder, "How the F do I do that?"
What they found in their validation process is that there are a host of things that people would like to learn more about, especially through video. Things such as how to check tire pressure, how to cook a quick meal, or how to get started on taxes. And it's not just twenty-somethings that want to know these things either, Savoy said.
"Turns out people don't know how to do things just in general," she said.
In order to retain the attention of an easily distracted culture, Savoy said the videos will all be under 30 seconds. Their voice will be similar to that of Buzzfeed; quick, snarky, with a lot of humor.
The business will be funded by ads, something the team found through surveys was not a deterrent to viewers watching videos. In addition, they will sell swag such as "How the F" t-shirts and mugs, or "a keychain that drops the F-bomb every time you feel like you're having a bad day," Savoy said.
Judges liked the idea because of its humor, and how content sites like Buzzfeed have done well with a similar market. Judge Mari Baker, a Silicon Valley exec and also the keynote speaker, warned against ad-based startups as a very difficult way to make money. That said, Savoy said after the event that the team is planning to focus first on selling swag.
"We are planning to move forward," she said. "We'll see where it goes."
It was an especially proud moment for Evan Balko, a serial Startup Weekend attendee who has always almost won. This time, his sixth time participating, was his first time in first place.
"Evan, not a bridesmaid anymore!" cried attendee Jon Walters from the crowd as team "How the F" took their prize – a $200 certificate to Mezzaluna, Prairie Den week passes and a deal for team t-shirts by Heat Transfer Warehouse. Balko beamed and did a fist pump in the air.
In second place was team Strumbles, an idea pitched by Tucker Richardson. The idea is based around pairing musicians with clients as a way to buy customized songs and jingles. For instance, a husband could pay a fee of $100 and have a musician write a song specifically for his wife, and send it as a customized video.
The team even set up a make shift recording studio thanks to some team members with photography businesses. On Saturday afternoon a green screen and flood light appeared in the hallway near the bathroom, where a musician recorded a song he had written that day; a demo song for Mother's Day that team Strumbles used in their presentation.
Judge Brenda Jacobson, Vice President of VISIONBank, said the idea brought to mind many companies that have pitched buying a jingle for marketing to their company.
"They are often very expensive," she said. "If you could offer jingles for specific marketing campaigns at an affordable price, you could do very well."
The two other teams each received their own award as well. Team Sprouting Roots, which presented a program that would bring hydroponics into classrooms as a way to teach kids about food and curb the obesity crisis, won Crowd Favorite.
Team Fearless pitched a program to #MakeFargoFearless through partnering with martial arts teachers and offering classes in self defense for men and women on a sponsorship basis. They won the "Just Do It" award from the judges.
As the event wrapped up, participants exchanged contact information and signed the large white t-shirt in the lobby, decorated with signatures and phrases such as, "Make it happen!" and "Not later, now!"
"I was actually blown away with how fun it was," said Brittany Butler, who said she signed up just to check it out. Butler, who pitched an idea Friday night, said she is planning to move forward and get it off the ground. "I figure if I always wanted to do this, why not do it?"
Particularly in a country where the percentage of women in leadership roles hovers around 15%, empowering women with the confidence needed to take start and lead companies is crucial – as stated by both keynote speakers, Mari Baker and Edie Ramstad.
Ramstad, who started 65 companies while supporting her 18 children, spoke Friday night about how powerful a female entrepreneur can be.
"I believe in the power of the entrepreneur and the power of the woman entrepreneur is a force that can change lives," Edie said. "We have the power and all you have to do is unlock it. This weekend is a great step towards unlocking it."
Photos courtesy of Katie Hutton and Emerging Prairie.
Marisa Jackels
← Concordia officially brings back computer science major
Doug Burgum on entrepreneurship in North Dakota →


Todmorden Information Centre has a wide range of information and brochures covering not only Todmorden and Calderdale but also about other parts...
Todmorden Information Centre has a wide range of information and brochures covering not only Todmorden and Calderdale but also about other parts of Yorkshire and the rest of England and sells a wide range of souvenirs, maps, cards and books about Todmorden as well as glass ware, fine china, gifts, reproductions of Victorian prints of local views and paintings.
We are members of Enjoy England and Welcome to Yorkshire.
Email: todmorden@ytbtic.co.uk
Halifax Visitor Information Centre
We're located in the second 'Rustic' level, above Gin Lane and Elder; and are open from 10am - 1.30pm & 2pm - 5.30pm, seve...
We're located in the second 'Rustic' level, above Gin Lane and Elder; and are open from 10am - 1.30pm & 2pm - 5.30pm, seven days a week.
Call in to see us – we're here to inspire you with many ideas on what to do, where to go and where to stay in Calderdale. You can also browse our exciting range of gifts, souvenirs, books, maps and guides.
Email: halifax@ytbtic.co.uk
Across Calderdale
Group Travel in Calderdale: Coach Parking & Drop Off Points
Whatever your group's size and whenever you choose to visit, once you've discovered what Calderdale has to offer you'll find r...
Whatever your group's size and whenever you choose to visit, once you've discovered what Calderdale has to offer you'll find reasons to visit again and again.
Encounter miles of stunning countryside, bustling market towns where independent shops outnumber the national chains, magnificent gardens and parkland, fantastic locally sourced food and drink, two past winners of Yorkshire's Favourite Pub, some of the finest examples of architecture anywhere in the country, festivals, theatres, agricultural shows, music, exhibitions, antiques, galleries and a rich mix of annual events.
Calderdale is the southernmost of the Yorkshire Dales and covers part of the South Pennines area of beautiful river valleys, moorland and hill country. Calderdale is not as well-known as its Northern neighbours as it does not fall within the boundaries of the Yorkshire Dales National Park. Yet Calderdale has a tremendous amount to offer visitors, time after time.
Ideally located off major routes, getting here couldn't be easier - your group will be able to arrive relaxed and raring to go. Visit our Getting to Calderdale page and discover how simple it can be to come and pay us a visit.
Once you're here, you'll quickly realise there's a lot more to Calderdale than you can discover in a single day. There are plenty of hotels suitable for groups that will serve as an ideal base for you to explore our magnificently modest area.
Calderdale also has three friendly visitor information centres that are just a phone call away and who can help to provide you with additional information and inside tips to make your trip a real success, whatever your tastes and budget.
Calderdale offers great value for money and a warm Yorkshire welcome. We look forward to seeing you soon!
Coach Parking & Drop Off Points
Here's some handy information on set down points and parking for coaches:
Set Down Points:
Cobbled lay by (adjacent to 'The Woolshops Shopping Centre' car park, on your left) on Square Road, Halifax, HX1 1QG.
Coach Parking:
Pre-booked coach parking is available in the Eureka! car parks. All coach parking must be booked in advance directly with Eureka! and is subject to availability.. Eureka! Contact: 01422 330069
Pre-booked coach parking for a maximum of two coaches is available at The Shay Stadium, Halifax HX3 0AQ in the South Stand Car Park. All coach parking must be booked in advance. £25.00 for a full day – weekdays only, (cash only). No reduction for part days. The Shay Stadium 01422 264750
Set Down Points: Lay by on New Road, HX7 8AF (adjacent to Hebden Bridge Marina).
Coach Parking: There is a signposted car park in the nearby village of Heptonstall on Valley View Road. (Use the Heptonstall turning circle just outside Hebden Bridge to double back up towards Heptonstall.) The lay-by opposite the Heptonstall turning circle also sometimes has space to park, but the amount of space available there varies daily.
Parking is available for up to two coaches in a lay-by at the marina on New Road by Hebden Bridge Visitor Centre for up to three hours. Postcode HX7 8AF
There is a signposted car park in nearby Heptonstall, on Valley View Road. Postcode HX7 7LB.
There is also a lay-by opposite the Heptonstall turning circle on King Street (A646). There is sometimes space to park here, although the amount of space available varies daily. Postcode HX7 6LX.
Set Down Point: Stand A, Todmorden Bus Station, Burnley Road, OL14 5DJ. Please use Stand A, which is located on the main road, for both drop off and pick up.
Coach Parking: Todmorden Bus Station, Burnley Road, OL14 5DJ. After dropping off at Stand A, coaches can drive onto the bus station proper and park in one of two lay-bys at the station designated as 'bus lay over'. For more information please ring Metro on 0113 2517330.
Hebden Bridge Visitor Information Centre
The friendly and knowledgeable staff at the award-winning Hebden Bridge can help to inspire you with information about local attractions.
You can also browse a range of locally produced crafts, as well as gifts and souvenirs, books, maps and guides.
Monday to Sunday 10am - 1pm & 1.30pm - 5pm.
Email: hebdenbridge@ytbtic.co.uk