diff --git "a/yield-experimental/test/test-001.jsonl" "b/yield-experimental/test/test-001.jsonl"
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+++ "b/yield-experimental/test/test-001.jsonl"
@@ -0,0 +1,2545 @@
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.189193901452182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. So my present family is my, I guess I don't know, it depends on what you describe family, but I have one grandparent who lives in England."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mom and my dad are here in Colorado. My little brother is at school in Scotland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I only got back in February. So right now I'm working as a nanny to earn money to go back to school for nursing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nursing? How wonderful."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.099104334946869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mom and my dad are here in Colorado. My little brother is at school in Scotland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I only got back in February. So right now I'm working as a nanny to earn money to go back to school for nursing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nursing? How wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm living with my parents. I really like. I don't know, like, I guess interests, like, volunteer work, soccer, running, reading. That's about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Do you, um, can you think back to the year before you joined the Peace Corps? For you, that would be like 2012."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.110115927718743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I only got back in February. So right now I'm working as a nanny to earn money to go back to school for nursing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nursing? How wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm living with my parents. I really like. I don't know, like, I guess interests, like, volunteer work, soccer, running, reading. That's about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Do you, um, can you think back to the year before you joined the Peace Corps? For you, that would be like 2012."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were your, what was your life like back then? And that's kind of a broad question."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.122351030798603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm living with my parents. I really like. I don't know, like, I guess interests, like, volunteer work, soccer, running, reading. That's about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Do you, um, can you think back to the year before you joined the Peace Corps? For you, that would be like 2012."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were your, what was your life like back then? And that's kind of a broad question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was at university. I went to university in Scotland, the University of St. Andrews."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. OK."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.535460947597535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I took international relations there. So I was taking some international relations classes. I was president of the women's football club. So that was like really important to me at that time. So basically, I think for the most part it was school and, um, what's it called? School and soccer. The summer of 2012, or wait. This is 2012? OK, summer of 2012, I got to volunteer at the London Olympics, which was really cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just, like, really interesting to be able to be like on the inside of the Olympic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sent you over to Scotland to go to school?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.315383885922882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sent you over to Scotland to go to school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my father was born and raised in England."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "England, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He came over here for his post doctorate and met my mother. And they've lived here all or like their married life, they've lived here and I grew up here. But I guess all of my dad's family lives in the UK, so maybe that didn't make it seem like a crazy jump. But surprisingly enough, like a lot of Americans attend the University of St. Andrews. It's marketed to Americans to some extent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, good. Well, and here's the second question on the interview outline. Why did you join the Peace Corps? OK."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.755805343580067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He came over here for his post doctorate and met my mother. And they've lived here all or like their married life, they've lived here and I grew up here. But I guess all of my dad's family lives in the UK, so maybe that didn't make it seem like a crazy jump. But surprisingly enough, like a lot of Americans attend the University of St. Andrews. It's marketed to Americans to some extent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, good. Well, and here's the second question on the interview outline. Why did you join the Peace Corps? OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I joined the Peace Corps because especially I feel like in this day and age, a lot of people are confused about what they're supposed to do when college is over. So I had one friend who's a year older than me who did Peace Corps Morocco. So I knew that was something you could do like right out of college. And I just applied. And basically, I think I was just like, if anything accepts me, I'm doing it,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I really like to travel and I've traveled a lot in my life, so I don't think, like, Peace Corps seemed like super crazy to me. But yeah, I just was looking for something to do after college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, OK. You said you had this friend that was Peace Corps Morocco. But the third question is, how did you hear about the Peace Corps and what made you decide to apply? I mean, you've sort of answered it and you might want to add something else if you choose to."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.395339270644519, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I joined the Peace Corps because especially I feel like in this day and age, a lot of people are confused about what they're supposed to do when college is over. So I had one friend who's a year older than me who did Peace Corps Morocco. So I knew that was something you could do like right out of college. And I just applied. And basically, I think I was just like, if anything accepts me, I'm doing it,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I really like to travel and I've traveled a lot in my life, so I don't think, like, Peace Corps seemed like super crazy to me. But yeah, I just was looking for something to do after college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, OK. You said you had this friend that was Peace Corps Morocco. But the third question is, how did you hear about the Peace Corps and what made you decide to apply? I mean, you've sort of answered it and you might want to add something else if you choose to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like I've heard about Peace Corps like for a while. I never like really thought about it that concretely probably until my friend went to Morocco. But I even had a second cousin who was. Was she in Nicaragua?\n\nShe was in Ecuador.\n\nEcuador. So I knew it was like something that people did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK. Did you have a specific country or project in mind when you applied?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.375764777693215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They wanted you to be prepared to go anywhere. And they think, you know, like if you fill out your application and you say, oh, I only want to go to Jordan, are you really prepared to like serve under hardship?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that's kind of where that came from. Which I kind of appreciate, but also Peace Corps applications have gone up a lot since they changed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who knows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your friends' and family's reaction? I know your mother's sitting over there. Family's reactions when you were accepted. Excuse me. It's the fourth question we're on, by the way."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.306405308548017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that's kind of where that came from. Which I kind of appreciate, but also Peace Corps applications have gone up a lot since they changed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who knows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your friends' and family's reaction? I know your mother's sitting over there. Family's reactions when you were accepted. Excuse me. It's the fourth question we're on, by the way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think, well, because I. I mean, I'm sure almost many people say this, but the application process can be very difficult, mostly because you don't really know what's happening and it takes a long time to get responses. So there were like at least two times that I thought I had been rejected somehow. So when I was finally accepted and I didn't really have other plans after college, um, I was just like over the moon. I think my family was really happy because I'd been worrying about it for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was the process for you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.118228120608908, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who knows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your friends' and family's reaction? I know your mother's sitting over there. Family's reactions when you were accepted. Excuse me. It's the fourth question we're on, by the way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think, well, because I. I mean, I'm sure almost many people say this, but the application process can be very difficult, mostly because you don't really know what's happening and it takes a long time to get responses. So there were like at least two times that I thought I had been rejected somehow. So when I was finally accepted and I didn't really have other plans after college, um, I was just like over the moon. I think my family was really happy because I'd been worrying about it for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was the process for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I applied in October and I went out like the October after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so it was a whole year."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.909142356232121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think, well, because I. I mean, I'm sure almost many people say this, but the application process can be very difficult, mostly because you don't really know what's happening and it takes a long time to get responses. So there were like at least two times that I thought I had been rejected somehow. So when I was finally accepted and I didn't really have other plans after college, um, I was just like over the moon. I think my family was really happy because I'd been worrying about it for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was the process for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I applied in October and I went out like the October after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so it was a whole year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it was difficult, especially being in Scotland. I had to like find the Scottish police and get fingerprinted and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I never would have thought of stuff like that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.787935951369024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I applied in October and I went out like the October after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so it was a whole year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it was difficult, especially being in Scotland. I had to like find the Scottish police and get fingerprinted and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I never would have thought of stuff like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you're enrolled in Scotland Yard, so to speak."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.62708142144324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you're enrolled in Scotland Yard, so to speak."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my British family thought I was joining the EU. They really had no idea what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The European Union?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.416149903016343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my British family thought I was joining the EU. They really had no idea what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The European Union?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Or like the UN."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were just like confused."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any reservations about joining, hesitations? Or did your family?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.15574062100783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were just like confused."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any reservations about joining, hesitations? Or did your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I think the funniest part was like that they told me, oh, you've been accepted. I got a phone call. I think people these days. Or maybe I got an email and most people get phone calls? But I looked and it was like, it was an email, and it was like, you're going to The Gambia. And I was like, I have never heard of this place before, but I'm going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I don't think I had any reservations, but I was like, I have no idea where I'm going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you only were presented with one country, I mean?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.061934023342033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I think the funniest part was like that they told me, oh, you've been accepted. I got a phone call. I think people these days. Or maybe I got an email and most people get phone calls? But I looked and it was like, it was an email, and it was like, you're going to The Gambia. And I was like, I have never heard of this place before, but I'm going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I don't think I had any reservations, but I was like, I have no idea where I'm going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you only were presented with one country, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think like my first. Like after the interview they sent like an invitation to be a health volunteer. And so that's, I mean, that rules out some countries, but not a whole lot of countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Now we're on the fifth question. What project were you invited to join? I know you just mentioned health, but we'll start with that. So what was the project you were invited to join?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.068815581491148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I don't think I had any reservations, but I was like, I have no idea where I'm going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you only were presented with one country, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think like my first. Like after the interview they sent like an invitation to be a health volunteer. And so that's, I mean, that rules out some countries, but not a whole lot of countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Now we're on the fifth question. What project were you invited to join? I know you just mentioned health, but we'll start with that. So what was the project you were invited to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just invited for the health sector. I know some countries have like they divide up their health sector into like HIV AIDS focus, malaria focus, or something like that. But the country I went to, it's just like every health volunteer is a health volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're health, that's it. There's no differentiation."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.187572868323496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think like my first. Like after the interview they sent like an invitation to be a health volunteer. And so that's, I mean, that rules out some countries, but not a whole lot of countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Now we're on the fifth question. What project were you invited to join? I know you just mentioned health, but we'll start with that. So what was the project you were invited to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just invited for the health sector. I know some countries have like they divide up their health sector into like HIV AIDS focus, malaria focus, or something like that. But the country I went to, it's just like every health volunteer is a health volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're health, that's it. There's no differentiation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How did you prepare yourself and others for, it says dislocation, sounds kind of strange, of entering two years of Peace Corps service? How did you prepare yourself and others?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.43063652035944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just invited for the health sector. I know some countries have like they divide up their health sector into like HIV AIDS focus, malaria focus, or something like that. But the country I went to, it's just like every health volunteer is a health volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're health, that's it. There's no differentiation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How did you prepare yourself and others for, it says dislocation, sounds kind of strange, of entering two years of Peace Corps service? How did you prepare yourself and others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, honestly, I don't think I did like too much preparation. I remember, like, going to like, um, things with my family before I left, and people would ask me questions about The Gambia. And I would always ask my mom what the answer to that question about the country I was about to go to. So I didn't, I definitely like didn't research the country that much. I mean, I think we went out and bought some clothes and like a solar radio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. OK."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 13.811818355954934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How did you prepare yourself and others for, it says dislocation, sounds kind of strange, of entering two years of Peace Corps service? How did you prepare yourself and others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, honestly, I don't think I did like too much preparation. I remember, like, going to like, um, things with my family before I left, and people would ask me questions about The Gambia. And I would always ask my mom what the answer to that question about the country I was about to go to. So I didn't, I definitely like didn't research the country that much. I mean, I think we went out and bought some clothes and like a solar radio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like, uh, maybe. Yeah, and like a solar powered battery charger. But I think mostly it was like material preparation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Now we're on the sixth question and this is about the training, your training. Where did you train? If you want to tell us about the faculty, syllabus, things of that nature. We'll start with where you trained."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.56868706217215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, honestly, I don't think I did like too much preparation. I remember, like, going to like, um, things with my family before I left, and people would ask me questions about The Gambia. And I would always ask my mom what the answer to that question about the country I was about to go to. So I didn't, I definitely like didn't research the country that much. I mean, I think we went out and bought some clothes and like a solar radio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like, uh, maybe. Yeah, and like a solar powered battery charger. But I think mostly it was like material preparation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Now we're on the sixth question and this is about the training, your training. Where did you train? If you want to tell us about the faculty, syllabus, things of that nature. We'll start with where you trained."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I trained in Gambia. They flew us out to Washington, no. Where did? To Philadelphia for like one day-ish. Really it was like half a day of training, which was, once after two years of Peace Corps service seemed completely pointless. We didn't do anything in that half day that was really gonna change anything, but we went there and then we flew to Gambia. And then we were in the capital for like a week, mostly doing like shots and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, what's the capital of Gambia?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.298541180191277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like, uh, maybe. Yeah, and like a solar powered battery charger. But I think mostly it was like material preparation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Now we're on the sixth question and this is about the training, your training. Where did you train? If you want to tell us about the faculty, syllabus, things of that nature. We'll start with where you trained."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I trained in Gambia. They flew us out to Washington, no. Where did? To Philadelphia for like one day-ish. Really it was like half a day of training, which was, once after two years of Peace Corps service seemed completely pointless. We didn't do anything in that half day that was really gonna change anything, but we went there and then we flew to Gambia. And then we were in the capital for like a week, mostly doing like shots and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, what's the capital of Gambia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the capital is called Banjul, but like it's kind of a widespread. So we were in the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you spell that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.10949020021253, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I trained in Gambia. They flew us out to Washington, no. Where did? To Philadelphia for like one day-ish. Really it was like half a day of training, which was, once after two years of Peace Corps service seemed completely pointless. We didn't do anything in that half day that was really gonna change anything, but we went there and then we flew to Gambia. And then we were in the capital for like a week, mostly doing like shots and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, what's the capital of Gambia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the capital is called Banjul, but like it's kind of a widespread. So we were in the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you spell that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "B-A-N-J-U-L."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you say it again?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.01171629655868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "B-A-N-J-U-L."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you say it again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Banjul."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Banjul."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's the capital of Gambia."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.90190699617631, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Banjul."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Banjul."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's the capital of Gambia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The suburban spread of Banjul is called Campo and we were in the area called Kanifing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How can you, can you spell that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.891007773529234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's the capital of Gambia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The suburban spread of Banjul is called Campo and we were in the area called Kanifing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How can you, can you spell that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that's K-A-N-I-F-A-N-G [sic] but then again like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's an area?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.754330584603993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that's K-A-N-I-F-A-N-G [sic] but then again like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's an area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's kind of like what you'd, like within Denver there's like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Denver area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Washington Park. There's Capitol Hill. It's like kind of, I would, not at all like a neighborhood, but spatially similar-ish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What was, who was your faculty? Was it like, for instance, Gambians?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.474482203214807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Washington Park. There's Capitol Hill. It's like kind of, I would, not at all like a neighborhood, but spatially similar-ish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What was, who was your faculty? Was it like, for instance, Gambians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, I mean, like I think these days you have the country director is always American, even though ours was. My first country director was from Zimbabwe. He had been like a Peace Corps employee, had managed to immigrate to America through Peace Corps, and then come back through and be a country director as an American. So I thought at first that all country directors were host country nationals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I'm guessing his story was sort of unique then."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.30498022579423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, I mean, like I think these days you have the country director is always American, even though ours was. My first country director was from Zimbabwe. He had been like a Peace Corps employee, had managed to immigrate to America through Peace Corps, and then come back through and be a country director as an American. So I thought at first that all country directors were host country nationals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I'm guessing his story was sort of unique then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's from Zimbabwe originally."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.005533584215811, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, I mean, like I think these days you have the country director is always American, even though ours was. My first country director was from Zimbabwe. He had been like a Peace Corps employee, had managed to immigrate to America through Peace Corps, and then come back through and be a country director as an American. So I thought at first that all country directors were host country nationals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I'm guessing his story was sort of unique then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's from Zimbabwe originally."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was like very strange. Um, so, but I think, I mean, like during training like you see the country director, you see the director of management operations is usually American. And then we got like a training manager, like after my first year of service, it was an American, but really we had contact with mostly just the Gambian staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Can you describe your training some? Well, for instance, like they use the word syllabus. You were in the health sector. Did you, how did they train you to be a health volunteer in The Gambia?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.783926204684234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's from Zimbabwe originally."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was like very strange. Um, so, but I think, I mean, like during training like you see the country director, you see the director of management operations is usually American. And then we got like a training manager, like after my first year of service, it was an American, but really we had contact with mostly just the Gambian staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Can you describe your training some? Well, for instance, like they use the word syllabus. You were in the health sector. Did you, how did they train you to be a health volunteer in The Gambia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess so. I mean, I would say like. Syllabus wise because like the technical studies is maybe what. So they kind of like, our main focus was language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the language?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.537695782982483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was like very strange. Um, so, but I think, I mean, like during training like you see the country director, you see the director of management operations is usually American. And then we got like a training manager, like after my first year of service, it was an American, but really we had contact with mostly just the Gambian staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Can you describe your training some? Well, for instance, like they use the word syllabus. You were in the health sector. Did you, how did they train you to be a health volunteer in The Gambia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess so. I mean, I would say like. Syllabus wise because like the technical studies is maybe what. So they kind of like, our main focus was language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Gambia I think teaches five different languages. I was with Pulaar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, spell Pulaar for me."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.083575040719113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Gambia I think teaches five different languages. I was with Pulaar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, spell Pulaar for me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "P-U-L-A-A-R, which it's part of like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "P-U-L-A-A-R."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's part of the Fulani tribe which can be found from Morocco to Cameroon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the name, your language was Pulaar?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 5.648416711910126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "P-U-L-A-A-R, which it's part of like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "P-U-L-A-A-R."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's part of the Fulani tribe which can be found from Morocco to Cameroon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the name, your language was Pulaar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Some people call it Fula. Like it's many different names for how to say Pulaar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, not that you learned the other four, but what were the other four languages?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.831574124344584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's part of the Fulani tribe which can be found from Morocco to Cameroon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the name, your language was Pulaar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Some people call it Fula. Like it's many different names for how to say Pulaar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, not that you learned the other four, but what were the other four languages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we had Mandinka, Wolof, Sarahule, and Jola."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Would you mind spelling those?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5124473584973717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mandinka. M-A-N-D-I-N-K-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wolof is spelled many different ways. W-O-L-O-O-F."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jola, J-O-L-A. Sarahule."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's a good one."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.446429847047149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wolof is spelled many different ways. W-O-L-O-O-F."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jola, J-O-L-A. Sarahule."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's a good one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "S-A-R-A-H-U-L-E."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. The last one was S-A-R-A-H-U-L-E? OK."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8293664967190546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jola, J-O-L-A. Sarahule."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's a good one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "S-A-R-A-H-U-L-E."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. The last one was S-A-R-A-H-U-L-E? OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's not a written language.\n\nYeah, none of them are written languages so spellings are really just like.\n\nSpellings are random."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "None of them are."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.254851663021172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "S-A-R-A-H-U-L-E."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. The last one was S-A-R-A-H-U-L-E? OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's not a written language.\n\nYeah, none of them are written languages so spellings are really just like.\n\nSpellings are random."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "None of them are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What do I say to that? OK. Well, that would be interesting how you learned that then. Did somebody, like I know some countries like a missionary might write down the words for some indigenous language? Did anybody try to write it? You know, how did you learn it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.252903287680459, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What do I say to that? OK. Well, that would be interesting how you learned that then. Did somebody, like I know some countries like a missionary might write down the words for some indigenous language? Did anybody try to write it? You know, how did you learn it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's been many attempts to like write in Pulaar. I don't think I would say that there's like a big like, what's the cultural conscience of the tribe? Like, oh, let's save our history, let's write our language, so much. But especially like Peace Corps staffs have like, what's it called when you like sound things out?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Phonetically."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have like phonetically created words in Pulaar to teach us with. But like every time we would get annoyed with how a word is spelled or something, they'd just be like, this is just how we would phonetically spell it. But if you think you should phonetically spell it another way, that's fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I don't know if it was really the language group. You mentioned Fulani. That was the? What was Fulani again?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.725448097422732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's been many attempts to like write in Pulaar. I don't think I would say that there's like a big like, what's the cultural conscience of the tribe? Like, oh, let's save our history, let's write our language, so much. But especially like Peace Corps staffs have like, what's it called when you like sound things out?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Phonetically."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have like phonetically created words in Pulaar to teach us with. But like every time we would get annoyed with how a word is spelled or something, they'd just be like, this is just how we would phonetically spell it. But if you think you should phonetically spell it another way, that's fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I don't know if it was really the language group. You mentioned Fulani. That was the? What was Fulani again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's the tribe. But like the tribe, like it's called many different things through from Cameroon to Morocco. It's not like, like I'm trying to think. I know Upper Senegal has, like, a whole other name for them. There's like different futas that the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's a futa?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9171645526919245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have like phonetically created words in Pulaar to teach us with. But like every time we would get annoyed with how a word is spelled or something, they'd just be like, this is just how we would phonetically spell it. But if you think you should phonetically spell it another way, that's fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I don't know if it was really the language group. You mentioned Fulani. That was the? What was Fulani again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's the tribe. But like the tribe, like it's called many different things through from Cameroon to Morocco. It's not like, like I'm trying to think. I know Upper Senegal has, like, a whole other name for them. There's like different futas that the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's a futa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's like homeland I think. That's, I mean, I never had the word translated to me by a staff member, but that's where they say like certain of the Pulaar people originate. There's one that's in Senegal, one that's in Guinea. I think maybe two are in Senegal? Two in Senegal, one in Guinea, or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of these languages are part of the Fulani tribe?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1301828363243605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's the tribe. But like the tribe, like it's called many different things through from Cameroon to Morocco. It's not like, like I'm trying to think. I know Upper Senegal has, like, a whole other name for them. There's like different futas that the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's a futa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's like homeland I think. That's, I mean, I never had the word translated to me by a staff member, but that's where they say like certain of the Pulaar people originate. There's one that's in Senegal, one that's in Guinea. I think maybe two are in Senegal? Two in Senegal, one in Guinea, or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of these languages are part of the Fulani tribe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Pulaar is though?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3668698181381784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's like homeland I think. That's, I mean, I never had the word translated to me by a staff member, but that's where they say like certain of the Pulaar people originate. There's one that's in Senegal, one that's in Guinea. I think maybe two are in Senegal? Two in Senegal, one in Guinea, or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of these languages are part of the Fulani tribe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Pulaar is though?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pulaar is, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is Fulani F-U-L-A-N-I? That's my guess."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6298553534868647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Pulaar is though?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pulaar is, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is Fulani F-U-L-A-N-I? That's my guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Oh, interesting. If you can remember, tell us more about your health training."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.922061503874294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pulaar is, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is Fulani F-U-L-A-N-I? That's my guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Oh, interesting. If you can remember, tell us more about your health training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So health, like I guess. So they had a, like a training center that we would stay at sometimes. And they had. But mostly we were split into our language groups and stationed in villages. And so when you're doing language training, you just stay in the village with other volunteers. Like we each had our own host family that we would live with. And then we'd like go to lessons at our language teacher's compound. But then if they wanted to do like a health session or safety and security or cultural that all the volunteers would go to, regardless of what language group they're in, we would go to the training center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the training center in the capital?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.246735004304771, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Oh, interesting. If you can remember, tell us more about your health training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So health, like I guess. So they had a, like a training center that we would stay at sometimes. And they had. But mostly we were split into our language groups and stationed in villages. And so when you're doing language training, you just stay in the village with other volunteers. Like we each had our own host family that we would live with. And then we'd like go to lessons at our language teacher's compound. But then if they wanted to do like a health session or safety and security or cultural that all the volunteers would go to, regardless of what language group they're in, we would go to the training center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the training center in the capital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they had kind of just rented from the agricultural ministry a training center. Um, because we were in the process of building a training center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What village did you live in for training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.496372227005301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So health, like I guess. So they had a, like a training center that we would stay at sometimes. And they had. But mostly we were split into our language groups and stationed in villages. And so when you're doing language training, you just stay in the village with other volunteers. Like we each had our own host family that we would live with. And then we'd like go to lessons at our language teacher's compound. But then if they wanted to do like a health session or safety and security or cultural that all the volunteers would go to, regardless of what language group they're in, we would go to the training center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the training center in the capital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they had kind of just rented from the agricultural ministry a training center. Um, because we were in the process of building a training center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What village did you live in for training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Saaremusa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'll have to spell that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7737469188947785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they had kind of just rented from the agricultural ministry a training center. Um, because we were in the process of building a training center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What village did you live in for training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Saaremusa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'll have to spell that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But like the thing is, it doesn't really matter how it's spelled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, well how?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0819410209941984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Saaremusa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'll have to spell that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But like the thing is, it doesn't really matter how it's spelled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, well how?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can guess, but like, it's like anyone could spell it however they want."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, what would you say?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.804865458017529, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can guess, but like, it's like anyone could spell it however they want."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, what would you say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "S-A-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A-A."}, {"role": "user", "content": "R-E-M-U-S-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, S-A-A-R-E-M-U-S-A. OK, that was your village you lived in. And did you live there after training also or just for training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.227628286686143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "S-A-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A-A."}, {"role": "user", "content": "R-E-M-U-S-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, S-A-A-R-E-M-U-S-A. OK, that was your village you lived in. And did you live there after training also or just for training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just for training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Training. OK. I know I already asked you. Could you expand a little on the health training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.219294181094004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just for training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Training. OK. I know I already asked you. Could you expand a little on the health training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. So then like sometimes when they would take us to the training center, we would do like specific health topics. So it'd be like handwashing, malaria, diarrhea, environmental sanitation, baby weighing, pregnancy. I'm trying to think of the other ones we had. Like basic first aid. So they would kind of like teach us things that you can do underneath that talk. Like so with malaria, like here's things and you can do. First it'd be like information. This is malaria. Then it would be like things you can do in your village to like talk to villagers about malaria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they'd do that with each of those topics. I mean, I think there's probably like ten or so topics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, maybe there was ten. Which topics did you find out were the most relevant to teach? I assume you were doing teaching then, yes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.799215756771116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. So then like sometimes when they would take us to the training center, we would do like specific health topics. So it'd be like handwashing, malaria, diarrhea, environmental sanitation, baby weighing, pregnancy. I'm trying to think of the other ones we had. Like basic first aid. So they would kind of like teach us things that you can do underneath that talk. Like so with malaria, like here's things and you can do. First it'd be like information. This is malaria. Then it would be like things you can do in your village to like talk to villagers about malaria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they'd do that with each of those topics. I mean, I think there's probably like ten or so topics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, maybe there was ten. Which topics did you find out were the most relevant to teach? I assume you were doing teaching then, yes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not so much. It was just like, uh, I mean, I think like kind of. I don't know how it was back when you served, but I kind of heard that Peace Corps just drops you off in a village, and it's like there you go. Do things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, not for me. I was, I don't need to talk about myself. I'll just say that I was with the Ministry of Health, Ministerio de Salud in Honduras, and I had a defined job. And at that time in my life, that was good. I didn't have the life experience to go out there and just take off by myself. I did not."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.443573063079018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they'd do that with each of those topics. I mean, I think there's probably like ten or so topics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, maybe there was ten. Which topics did you find out were the most relevant to teach? I assume you were doing teaching then, yes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not so much. It was just like, uh, I mean, I think like kind of. I don't know how it was back when you served, but I kind of heard that Peace Corps just drops you off in a village, and it's like there you go. Do things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, not for me. I was, I don't need to talk about myself. I'll just say that I was with the Ministry of Health, Ministerio de Salud in Honduras, and I had a defined job. And at that time in my life, that was good. I didn't have the life experience to go out there and just take off by myself. I did not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I don't know if I did, but that's kind of what they did to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so how long was your training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7150811811989084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not so much. It was just like, uh, I mean, I think like kind of. I don't know how it was back when you served, but I kind of heard that Peace Corps just drops you off in a village, and it's like there you go. Do things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, not for me. I was, I don't need to talk about myself. I'll just say that I was with the Ministry of Health, Ministerio de Salud in Honduras, and I had a defined job. And at that time in my life, that was good. I didn't have the life experience to go out there and just take off by myself. I did not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I don't know if I did, but that's kind of what they did to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so how long was your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was two months. So that's why I served only, what? Normally it's 27 months? I think I served 26 because we only have a two month training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Training, OK. Um. Anything else you might want to share about the training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.016756867998787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I don't know if I did, but that's kind of what they did to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so how long was your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was two months. So that's why I served only, what? Normally it's 27 months? I think I served 26 because we only have a two month training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Training, OK. Um. Anything else you might want to share about the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just, I think it was awesome. It was like you really get to know your group of other volunteers. The people who were in my language group are like really good friends. My language teacher, I called, I've recently talked to him in Gambia. It was really, really, really hot. It was like the hottest part of the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what the temperatures were? And I say that because I know some places don't have thermometers in their village I would think."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2408409644430964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was two months. So that's why I served only, what? Normally it's 27 months? I think I served 26 because we only have a two month training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Training, OK. Um. Anything else you might want to share about the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just, I think it was awesome. It was like you really get to know your group of other volunteers. The people who were in my language group are like really good friends. My language teacher, I called, I've recently talked to him in Gambia. It was really, really, really hot. It was like the hottest part of the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what the temperatures were? And I say that because I know some places don't have thermometers in their village I would think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We don't. I mean, but I know it was like 100% humidity and I had like over 50 mosquito bites twice. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excuse me, did you actually count them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.489823293825663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just, I think it was awesome. It was like you really get to know your group of other volunteers. The people who were in my language group are like really good friends. My language teacher, I called, I've recently talked to him in Gambia. It was really, really, really hot. It was like the hottest part of the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what the temperatures were? And I say that because I know some places don't have thermometers in their village I would think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We don't. I mean, but I know it was like 100% humidity and I had like over 50 mosquito bites twice. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excuse me, did you actually count them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I'm sorry. I shouldn't be laughing during this taping, but obviously I am. OK. Did they have a selection process? Do you know what I mean, to see? Did everybody who was went through the two months of health training and language training, did everybody pass? Or were some people advised to leave or deselected?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.073855918303287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I'm sorry. I shouldn't be laughing during this taping, but obviously I am. OK. Did they have a selection process? Do you know what I mean, to see? Did everybody who was went through the two months of health training and language training, did everybody pass? Or were some people advised to leave or deselected?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they, I mean, they told us that like if you don't pass your language exams, like you might not, you might be like held back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or like if you're not becoming culturally aware, like you might be held back. Like there were, I mean, they were like watching how we were integrating with the culture. But I think for the most part, like I knew of a couple volunteers, not from my group, who were held back, and it was because of cultural insensitivity, like they just didn't get it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they pass eventually, do you know?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.41539546478143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they, I mean, they told us that like if you don't pass your language exams, like you might not, you might be like held back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or like if you're not becoming culturally aware, like you might be held back. Like there were, I mean, they were like watching how we were integrating with the culture. But I think for the most part, like I knew of a couple volunteers, not from my group, who were held back, and it was because of cultural insensitivity, like they just didn't get it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they pass eventually, do you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They did. OK. The last part of this question, hindsight it says, regarding your training. Did you think your training prepared you sufficiently? Was it useful, the training you received?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9943153886190494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They did. OK. The last part of this question, hindsight it says, regarding your training. Did you think your training prepared you sufficiently? Was it useful, the training you received?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I feel like my friends and I have talked about this a lot because I don't think that anything can really prepare you to be just, like, dropped off in a village with like no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, like, you have like, you've been living in this other village for a while, but suddenly you're all by yourself. And in Gambia, they tell us that you're not supposed to leave village for your first three months. Like, for the night. You can go to like the regional capital to buy toilet paper, but technically like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Spend the night elsewhere."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2159059873544993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I feel like my friends and I have talked about this a lot because I don't think that anything can really prepare you to be just, like, dropped off in a village with like no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, like, you have like, you've been living in this other village for a while, but suddenly you're all by yourself. And in Gambia, they tell us that you're not supposed to leave village for your first three months. Like, for the night. You can go to like the regional capital to buy toilet paper, but technically like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Spend the night elsewhere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. For three months."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4621177637272216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, like, you have like, you've been living in this other village for a while, but suddenly you're all by yourself. And in Gambia, they tell us that you're not supposed to leave village for your first three months. Like, for the night. You can go to like the regional capital to buy toilet paper, but technically like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Spend the night elsewhere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. For three months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you're also supposed to like not start any projects. You're supposed to just observe like the community. You're doing a survey the whole time, like trying to figure out what might be the biggest health need in your village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did they give you an outline?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.735686404141357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. For three months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you're also supposed to like not start any projects. You're supposed to just observe like the community. You're doing a survey the whole time, like trying to figure out what might be the biggest health need in your village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did they give you an outline?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they gave us like questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just say like go out there and do a survey. Or did they?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0396515601570635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you're also supposed to like not start any projects. You're supposed to just observe like the community. You're doing a survey the whole time, like trying to figure out what might be the biggest health need in your village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did they give you an outline?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they gave us like questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just say like go out there and do a survey. Or did they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They give us questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did a survey for three months."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3773906223967374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they gave us like questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just say like go out there and do a survey. Or did they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They give us questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did a survey for three months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I mean, but I don't think they could just like skip training, just drop you off in your village. Like it's a good that there is like an adjustment period. It's good that you get to talk to a teacher, like work on your language before you go out. But I mean, it's just like, I just don't know if there's that much you can do to be like prepared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, I guess I could. I could give a philosophical talk on life. I mean, we get different life experiences, and they can't be prepare. You can't be prepared for everything. OK, then we'll move on to the seventh question, which talks about your initial entry into the country that you were assigned to, which was The Gambia. If you want to say more about your project, as you can see, then they say Peace Corps staff, etc. Do you want to say anything else about your project?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.169618052341651, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I mean, but I don't think they could just like skip training, just drop you off in your village. Like it's a good that there is like an adjustment period. It's good that you get to talk to a teacher, like work on your language before you go out. But I mean, it's just like, I just don't know if there's that much you can do to be like prepared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, I guess I could. I could give a philosophical talk on life. I mean, we get different life experiences, and they can't be prepare. You can't be prepared for everything. OK, then we'll move on to the seventh question, which talks about your initial entry into the country that you were assigned to, which was The Gambia. If you want to say more about your project, as you can see, then they say Peace Corps staff, etc. Do you want to say anything else about your project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So like the health project?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I guess. I don't, uh. I guess the health project to me seems, um, like it could be like better directed somehow or like completely gotten rid of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gotten rid of?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.632908947046278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So like the health project?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I guess. I don't, uh. I guess the health project to me seems, um, like it could be like better directed somehow or like completely gotten rid of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gotten rid of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just like, so they, I mean, you just get to this village and, I mean, I lived in a fantastic village. I adore the people that lived there. But who am I to just show up and be like, this is how you live your life, like this is what to do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. And I'm an American living in Scotland."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0365654967180875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I guess. I don't, uh. I guess the health project to me seems, um, like it could be like better directed somehow or like completely gotten rid of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gotten rid of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just like, so they, I mean, you just get to this village and, I mean, I lived in a fantastic village. I adore the people that lived there. But who am I to just show up and be like, this is how you live your life, like this is what to do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. And I'm an American living in Scotland."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Like, I don't know if that. And especially with health, there's not that just many tangible things that I felt like you could do. Like agriculture, there was a lot more, like create a model garden. Then you can be like, this is what's happening for real. But with malaria and like handwashing and stuff, like the people in my village haven't washed their hands with soap for hundreds of years. They're fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sorry, I shouldn't be laughing. Like hundreds of years. OK, OK."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.485072774131208, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just like, so they, I mean, you just get to this village and, I mean, I lived in a fantastic village. I adore the people that lived there. But who am I to just show up and be like, this is how you live your life, like this is what to do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. And I'm an American living in Scotland."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Like, I don't know if that. And especially with health, there's not that just many tangible things that I felt like you could do. Like agriculture, there was a lot more, like create a model garden. Then you can be like, this is what's happening for real. But with malaria and like handwashing and stuff, like the people in my village haven't washed their hands with soap for hundreds of years. They're fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sorry, I shouldn't be laughing. Like hundreds of years. OK, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So like, they're fine. So like, why does me telling them that they're not fine? Like, they're fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they wash their hands, just like with water and use friction or anything like that or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.98341419347912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Like, I don't know if that. And especially with health, there's not that just many tangible things that I felt like you could do. Like agriculture, there was a lot more, like create a model garden. Then you can be like, this is what's happening for real. But with malaria and like handwashing and stuff, like the people in my village haven't washed their hands with soap for hundreds of years. They're fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sorry, I shouldn't be laughing. Like hundreds of years. OK, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So like, they're fine. So like, why does me telling them that they're not fine? Like, they're fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they wash their hands, just like with water and use friction or anything like that or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like if you're in a good village, they'll use like a run. Like they'll have like a plastic kettle they have water in. And then you put your hands under it and you move them. If it's a bad village, there's a bowl of water, everyone puts their hands in the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, same bowl of water. OK. No soap. You've already said that. No soap. OK. Anything you'd like to share about the Peace Corps staff?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.041252090714963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like if you're in a good village, they'll use like a run. Like they'll have like a plastic kettle they have water in. And then you put your hands under it and you move them. If it's a bad village, there's a bowl of water, everyone puts their hands in the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, same bowl of water. OK. No soap. You've already said that. No soap. OK. Anything you'd like to share about the Peace Corps staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think we had really good staff, for the most. I mean, like I think everyone has the staff they like and the staff they don't like, but I just think Gambians in general are incredibly welcoming. And the Peace Corps Gambia staff really took their mission of welcoming us and trying to like make us, you know, not so much like successes as volunteers, but like keep us going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did a fantastic job. The American staff, like, brought their own perspective. It's kind of hard when they're, I mean, I guess they just bring like the flavor of America because they don't know the country. Like most staff these days are there for like a year at most in a post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps staff?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.490280100794402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think we had really good staff, for the most. I mean, like I think everyone has the staff they like and the staff they don't like, but I just think Gambians in general are incredibly welcoming. And the Peace Corps Gambia staff really took their mission of welcoming us and trying to like make us, you know, not so much like successes as volunteers, but like keep us going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did a fantastic job. The American staff, like, brought their own perspective. It's kind of hard when they're, I mean, I guess they just bring like the flavor of America because they don't know the country. Like most staff these days are there for like a year at most in a post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Or like Peace Corps American staff because they move them around. You're only allowed to work for the government I think for five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's how it used to be. It could still be that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7669778897715576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did a fantastic job. The American staff, like, brought their own perspective. It's kind of hard when they're, I mean, I guess they just bring like the flavor of America because they don't know the country. Like most staff these days are there for like a year at most in a post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Or like Peace Corps American staff because they move them around. You're only allowed to work for the government I think for five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's how it used to be. It could still be that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they'll let them work in a post like a year and transfer them somewhere else. Or maybe like a year and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow. Yeah, that's not much."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.074419877523953, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Or like Peace Corps American staff because they move them around. You're only allowed to work for the government I think for five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's how it used to be. It could still be that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they'll let them work in a post like a year and transfer them somewhere else. Or maybe like a year and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow. Yeah, that's not much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I feel like that kind of hinders the Americans from getting to know like what the country is like, because they also are living in the capital with all the diplomatic amenities so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What was your impression of the local people? I know you already said welcoming."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4160220861377253, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they'll let them work in a post like a year and transfer them somewhere else. Or maybe like a year and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow. Yeah, that's not much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I feel like that kind of hinders the Americans from getting to know like what the country is like, because they also are living in the capital with all the diplomatic amenities so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What was your impression of the local people? I know you already said welcoming."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're just like fab, I like I think Gambians are fabulous for the most part. There's also a big culture of female sexual tourism in The Gambia, so I got a lot of harassment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Yeah. I'm just trying to think of what to say about that. Was that legal? I'm guessing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.6859013527266455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think the president cares."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, we have white people coming and spending their money in The Gambia so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For sex?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, like but they'll stay at a hotel. They'll go out to dinner. So it's not like that's the only thing they're spending their money on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but there is a big sexual trade."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.206557058585162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, we have white people coming and spending their money in The Gambia so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For sex?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, like but they'll stay at a hotel. They'll go out to dinner. So it's not like that's the only thing they're spending their money on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but there is a big sexual trade."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you know if, the only reason I'm asking this is when I was in Honduras, prostitution was legal, which I was so surprised. Was prostitution legal? Do you know that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.4517300650946234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, like but they'll stay at a hotel. They'll go out to dinner. So it's not like that's the only thing they're spending their money on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but there is a big sexual trade."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you know if, the only reason I'm asking this is when I was in Honduras, prostitution was legal, which I was so surprised. Was prostitution legal? Do you know that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. There weren't, I mean, I lived in a 97% Muslim country, so that's not really a good thing in Islam, like women are. That's, I mean, there's just, don't like, don't look at a man, don't like all those different things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these women, I'm guessing, were then Muslim women in the sexual trade?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6130334056606925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you know if, the only reason I'm asking this is when I was in Honduras, prostitution was legal, which I was so surprised. Was prostitution legal? Do you know that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. There weren't, I mean, I lived in a 97% Muslim country, so that's not really a good thing in Islam, like women are. That's, I mean, there's just, don't like, don't look at a man, don't like all those different things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these women, I'm guessing, were then Muslim women in the sexual trade?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no. So it would be like white women coming from like Europe for the most part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Not the Muslim women."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.035206929199463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no. So it would be like white women coming from like Europe for the most part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Not the Muslim women."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then it would.\n\n[inaudible]\n\nI don't understand what you're saying, Mom.\n\nIt was Gambian men.\n\nYeah, it was for Gambian men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK, OK. Gambian man and white women. OK."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.7471690483943987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then it would.\n\n[inaudible]\n\nI don't understand what you're saying, Mom.\n\nIt was Gambian men.\n\nYeah, it was for Gambian men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK, OK. Gambian man and white women. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's almost, it would almost be treated as like a boyfriend girlfriend relationship, less like prostitution. Because like the Gambian woman would like take the guy out for like meals and like put them up in the hotel with her, maybe like give him money. But it was also like, you know, more than just showing up at a brothel, like sleeping with someone and leaving. And a lot of people get married and whatnot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Huh. Yeah, you left me a little bit speechless. Yeah, um. You've said a little bit already about the heat and humidity. Anything else you might want to share about the physical environment there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.052410053771554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then it would.\n\n[inaudible]\n\nI don't understand what you're saying, Mom.\n\nIt was Gambian men.\n\nYeah, it was for Gambian men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK, OK. Gambian man and white women. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's almost, it would almost be treated as like a boyfriend girlfriend relationship, less like prostitution. Because like the Gambian woman would like take the guy out for like meals and like put them up in the hotel with her, maybe like give him money. But it was also like, you know, more than just showing up at a brothel, like sleeping with someone and leaving. And a lot of people get married and whatnot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Huh. Yeah, you left me a little bit speechless. Yeah, um. You've said a little bit already about the heat and humidity. Anything else you might want to share about the physical environment there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[inaudible]\n\nGambia. Mom, this is my interview. I just think that like Gambia is one of the least developed countries. I mean, it's definitely the least developed country I've ever been to. But like, if you're thinking of a village, like no roads, like my family had dirt floors. We had no running water, no electricity. They do have like some solar chargers. So most people have, most people, like 50% of the population has like a mobile phone or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3915667264128375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's almost, it would almost be treated as like a boyfriend girlfriend relationship, less like prostitution. Because like the Gambian woman would like take the guy out for like meals and like put them up in the hotel with her, maybe like give him money. But it was also like, you know, more than just showing up at a brothel, like sleeping with someone and leaving. And a lot of people get married and whatnot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Huh. Yeah, you left me a little bit speechless. Yeah, um. You've said a little bit already about the heat and humidity. Anything else you might want to share about the physical environment there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[inaudible]\n\nGambia. Mom, this is my interview. I just think that like Gambia is one of the least developed countries. I mean, it's definitely the least developed country I've ever been to. But like, if you're thinking of a village, like no roads, like my family had dirt floors. We had no running water, no electricity. They do have like some solar chargers. So most people have, most people, like 50% of the population has like a mobile phone or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how do they charge it then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7684074737920414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[inaudible]\n\nGambia. Mom, this is my interview. I just think that like Gambia is one of the least developed countries. I mean, it's definitely the least developed country I've ever been to. But like, if you're thinking of a village, like no roads, like my family had dirt floors. We had no running water, no electricity. They do have like some solar chargers. So most people have, most people, like 50% of the population has like a mobile phone or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how do they charge it then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the solar chargers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the solar chargers, OK."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:238", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.18711941532449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how do they charge it then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the solar chargers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the solar chargers, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah, we had like two roads. No bridges across the river that split my country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I know when I met you at the Peace Corps happy hour, you said something about the dimensions of Gambia. What were they again, the length? Because it was a small country."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:240", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.430132683693879, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the solar chargers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the solar chargers, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah, we had like two roads. No bridges across the river that split my country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I know when I met you at the Peace Corps happy hour, you said something about the dimensions of Gambia. What were they again, the length? Because it was a small country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it's like maybe 200. No, 200 to 300 miles long. And then like at its widest, at its widest, like 40 to 50 miles across. But there's a runner, a runner, a river that runs through the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's the name of the river?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:244", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7655959057949124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it's like maybe 200. No, 200 to 300 miles long. And then like at its widest, at its widest, like 40 to 50 miles across. But there's a runner, a runner, a river that runs through the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's the name of the river?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Gambia River. So you can't just like go the short way across the country, like there's a river. You have to get on a ferry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No bridge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No bridge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No bridge. OK."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:246", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9617732286610137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Gambia River. So you can't just like go the short way across the country, like there's a river. You have to get on a ferry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No bridge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No bridge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No bridge. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My closest, the closest volunteers to me from my group were on the other side of the river, so it was almost easier to go see other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK. Now we're moving on to the eighth question and like I said, some of these questions might be redundant. Your assignment. I'll try to read through these. And if you want to say more about them. The specifics of your job, your living conditions."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:248", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1797480318455706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No bridge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No bridge. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My closest, the closest volunteers to me from my group were on the other side of the river, so it was almost easier to go see other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK. Now we're moving on to the eighth question and like I said, some of these questions might be redundant. Your assignment. I'll try to read through these. And if you want to say more about them. The specifics of your job, your living conditions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you going to read them all and then I say?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, do you want, do you have anything more you want to say about the specifics of your job?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:252", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.691046952895766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you going to read them all and then I say?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, do you want, do you have anything more you want to say about the specifics of your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think, like so I was supposed to be sent to a village that was really far away from the village I actually was sent to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, like my site, my placement site. But the village I was supposed to be sent to couldn't find a house for me to live in. So then at some point during training, they scrambled to find me another village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you end up?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:254", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8789410587730733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think, like so I was supposed to be sent to a village that was really far away from the village I actually was sent to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, like my site, my placement site. But the village I was supposed to be sent to couldn't find a house for me to live in. So then at some point during training, they scrambled to find me another village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you end up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This village called Jiroff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And spell that, please."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:256", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.087712287525637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, like my site, my placement site. But the village I was supposed to be sent to couldn't find a house for me to live in. So then at some point during training, they scrambled to find me another village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you end up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This village called Jiroff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And spell that, please."}, {"role": "user", "content": "J-I-R-O-F-F."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jiroff. So you lived there. Two years or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:264", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.182003181718696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think that was, that was, I was the only person in my group who got put in a village like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No support?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or like I think a lot of health volunteers these days are like assigned to clinics or like maybe like a health worker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had nothing. Yeah, that would be very difficult. Yeah. Anything you might want to say more about your living conditions?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:266", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.42444797968744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or like I think a lot of health volunteers these days are like assigned to clinics or like maybe like a health worker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had nothing. Yeah, that would be very difficult. Yeah. Anything you might want to say more about your living conditions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So all the, I mean, all the volunteers, except the ones that live in the capital, live with host families for both years. Um, so I lived with the host family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you, of course you didn't know any different, but did you enjoy living with a host family?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:268", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6938310885415997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or like I think a lot of health volunteers these days are like assigned to clinics or like maybe like a health worker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had nothing. Yeah, that would be very difficult. Yeah. Anything you might want to say more about your living conditions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So all the, I mean, all the volunteers, except the ones that live in the capital, live with host families for both years. Um, so I lived with the host family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you, of course you didn't know any different, but did you enjoy living with a host family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think I would have felt much more isolated if I hadn't had them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Um, what was your family like, your Gambian family?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:272", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2146062821501227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think I would have felt much more isolated if I hadn't had them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Um, what was your family like, your Gambian family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was my host mom and dad, and then halfway, I mean, people come in and out and family is like a very wide definition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Africa. So then at one point my host sister came, she had twin babies. My cousin lived with us and my host sister's son and daughter and other daughter. And then one of my other host sisters, her daughter lived with us a little bit and then she took her back. And then one of my like dad's nephews for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have your own room?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:274", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.46067364683347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was my host mom and dad, and then halfway, I mean, people come in and out and family is like a very wide definition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Africa. So then at one point my host sister came, she had twin babies. My cousin lived with us and my host sister's son and daughter and other daughter. And then one of my other host sisters, her daughter lived with us a little bit and then she took her back. And then one of my like dad's nephews for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have your own room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I don't know how. Like when I was in Peace Corps training, they wanted the volunteer to have their own room, maybe a place to escape. Well, I lost track of how many people you had coming and going but."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:276", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.7340818298149663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Africa. So then at one point my host sister came, she had twin babies. My cousin lived with us and my host sister's son and daughter and other daughter. And then one of my other host sisters, her daughter lived with us a little bit and then she took her back. And then one of my like dad's nephews for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have your own room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I don't know how. Like when I was in Peace Corps training, they wanted the volunteer to have their own room, maybe a place to escape. Well, I lost track of how many people you had coming and going but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Can you describe a typical day?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:278", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9267575886832957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I don't know how. Like when I was in Peace Corps training, they wanted the volunteer to have their own room, maybe a place to escape. Well, I lost track of how many people you had coming and going but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Can you describe a typical day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, so I would wake up. I would sweep. I would eat breakfast. I'd water my garden, then I'd think of something to do until 5 p.m., then I'd water my garden again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Twice a day, water your garden."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:280", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1408417652036618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Can you describe a typical day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, so I would wake up. I would sweep. I would eat breakfast. I'd water my garden, then I'd think of something to do until 5 p.m., then I'd water my garden again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Twice a day, water your garden."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, like rainy season I didn't do that. So it kind of changes with the seasons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the garden at the house?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:284", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.514423216656778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, like rainy season I didn't do that. So it kind of changes with the seasons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the garden at the house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I built, or me and a counterpart built one in our compound area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell her about the health clinic.\n\nMom. Literally.\n\nI know, but you did that often.\n\nOK. A typical day is not a health clinic day. That happened like twice or three times a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll get, I'll write myself a note. We'll get to health clinic day."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:286", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.793803574063087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I built, or me and a counterpart built one in our compound area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell her about the health clinic.\n\nMom. Literally.\n\nI know, but you did that often.\n\nOK. A typical day is not a health clinic day. That happened like twice or three times a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll get, I'll write myself a note. We'll get to health clinic day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I'd always take a bucket bath in the evening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No running water."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4491402148927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I'd always take a bucket bath in the evening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No running water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, bucket bath. So I just would pump a bucket full of water, and then I'd throw cups of water over my head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you had a water pump?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.832378016547444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, bucket bath. So I just would pump a bucket full of water, and then I'd throw cups of water over my head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you had a water pump?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like our village did. So I would walk to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A community water pump. Am I saying that correctly?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1470866850527157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you had a water pump?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like our village did. So I would walk to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A community water pump. Am I saying that correctly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I'd eat lunch at 2:00, I forgot that. Then I ate dinner. And then usually I would like work on reading with my cousin. And then I'd go to bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What kind of food did you eat? What kind of food would you eat for lunch?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8852922037687843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I'd eat lunch at 2:00, I forgot that. Then I ate dinner. And then usually I would like work on reading with my cousin. And then I'd go to bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What kind of food did you eat? What kind of food would you eat for lunch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they grew. They grow rice in The Gambia. So we'd eat rice a lot. There's like a porridge with rice in the morning, or we have a lot of millet, so there's a millet porridge or a rice porridge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then lunch is always rice with some kind of like sauce, usually like tomato paste and, uh. What's it called like? What's that, stock?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a broth or something?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3169913375208715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they grew. They grow rice in The Gambia. So we'd eat rice a lot. There's like a porridge with rice in the morning, or we have a lot of millet, so there's a millet porridge or a rice porridge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then lunch is always rice with some kind of like sauce, usually like tomato paste and, uh. What's it called like? What's that, stock?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a broth or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like but they have it in cubes and it's like MSG, but you just throw that in there. It's really good.\n\nLike maybe a little bit of onion. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Where did you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.7966570416898575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then lunch is always rice with some kind of like sauce, usually like tomato paste and, uh. What's it called like? What's that, stock?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a broth or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like but they have it in cubes and it's like MSG, but you just throw that in there. It's really good.\n\nLike maybe a little bit of onion. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Where did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or peanut, there's a peanut butter. Peanut sauce."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cause I was going to ask you about protein. What did you? Peanuts. Did you buy peanuts?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.579776463223397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then because we were close to the river, I'd say we'd eat fish like three or four times a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A week?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then they also dried fish, and you could throw that in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then sometimes for dinner, there'd be like millet. And on a bad night, it would be millet and salt and water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Did you lose weight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.123180818794317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then sometimes for dinner, there'd be like millet. And on a bad night, it would be millet and salt and water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Did you lose weight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Funnily, most women like gain weight and then guys just like drop it like no one's business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I just stayed the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know I'm asking you again about the protein thing, I mean."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.025756465327019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Funnily, most women like gain weight and then guys just like drop it like no one's business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I just stayed the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know I'm asking you again about the protein thing, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I had my parents send me a lot of protein bars, but I'm pretty sure if they hadn't like I would have been fine. I was a vegetarian before Peace Corps so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any dairy products, milk, cheese?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8944237748442805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my family or my host dad had cows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the cows would produce milk from about October, November to like March, April. After April the, like because we only get rain from like July to mid September. So after April there's nothing for the cows left to eat. So then they don't have enough to create, to make milk. So you get milk like a third of the year, quarter of the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[inaudible]\n\nDon't even ask me. I have no idea. I asked him that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't even think about stuff like that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.327137527604756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the cows would produce milk from about October, November to like March, April. After April the, like because we only get rain from like July to mid September. So after April there's nothing for the cows left to eat. So then they don't have enough to create, to make milk. So you get milk like a third of the year, quarter of the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[inaudible]\n\nDon't even ask me. I have no idea. I asked him that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't even think about stuff like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mom, I would ask him and he'd be like, I have none. I'd be like, Dad, why do you have no cows? I know you have cows. He's like, I lost them. I don't know.\n\nHe had about 15 cows.\n\nMom! I'm sorry. This is my interview. Stop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure she's trying to be helpful, OK? But it's interesting once you start talking or you and me in this case. I didn't even think about things like no milk after a while because nothing for the cows to eat. I didn't think about that. OK. Anything more you might want to say about your relationships with the people of Gambia? Or you could say your village, you know. I know you talked about your host family."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.696819475116395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[inaudible]\n\nDon't even ask me. I have no idea. I asked him that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't even think about stuff like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mom, I would ask him and he'd be like, I have none. I'd be like, Dad, why do you have no cows? I know you have cows. He's like, I lost them. I don't know.\n\nHe had about 15 cows.\n\nMom! I'm sorry. This is my interview. Stop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure she's trying to be helpful, OK? But it's interesting once you start talking or you and me in this case. I didn't even think about things like no milk after a while because nothing for the cows to eat. I didn't think about that. OK. Anything more you might want to say about your relationships with the people of Gambia? Or you could say your village, you know. I know you talked about your host family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think I just, even like my village was just like a super positive place. I think it takes a while, like basically harassment for females. It's just like, you just have to get over it. Like that happens. It's going to happen. It's a big culture of like joking in The Gambia. So it's always better to like not, stop being so serious about all these guys coming after you and just joke with them or like make fun of them. That's always better. And I know there were days that I wasn't that good at that and I'd just get really frustrated. But for the most, I mean, for the most part like just. If you just play it off as a joke, like that's so much a part of their culture that it just works out the best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your relationship like with other Peace Corps volunteers? And before I have you answer, were you the only Peace Corps volunteer in town or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:330", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.107577194573772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mom, I would ask him and he'd be like, I have none. I'd be like, Dad, why do you have no cows? I know you have cows. He's like, I lost them. I don't know.\n\nHe had about 15 cows.\n\nMom! I'm sorry. This is my interview. Stop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure she's trying to be helpful, OK? But it's interesting once you start talking or you and me in this case. I didn't even think about things like no milk after a while because nothing for the cows to eat. I didn't think about that. OK. Anything more you might want to say about your relationships with the people of Gambia? Or you could say your village, you know. I know you talked about your host family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think I just, even like my village was just like a super positive place. I think it takes a while, like basically harassment for females. It's just like, you just have to get over it. Like that happens. It's going to happen. It's a big culture of like joking in The Gambia. So it's always better to like not, stop being so serious about all these guys coming after you and just joke with them or like make fun of them. That's always better. And I know there were days that I wasn't that good at that and I'd just get really frustrated. But for the most, I mean, for the most part like just. If you just play it off as a joke, like that's so much a part of their culture that it just works out the best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your relationship like with other Peace Corps volunteers? And before I have you answer, were you the only Peace Corps volunteer in town or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were, OK."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:334", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3417524384153023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think I just, even like my village was just like a super positive place. I think it takes a while, like basically harassment for females. It's just like, you just have to get over it. Like that happens. It's going to happen. It's a big culture of like joking in The Gambia. So it's always better to like not, stop being so serious about all these guys coming after you and just joke with them or like make fun of them. That's always better. And I know there were days that I wasn't that good at that and I'd just get really frustrated. But for the most, I mean, for the most part like just. If you just play it off as a joke, like that's so much a part of their culture that it just works out the best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your relationship like with other Peace Corps volunteers? And before I have you answer, were you the only Peace Corps volunteer in town or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my closest volunteers were a K away on each side. And Gambia doesn't really, I mean, like for my village, like we have no organized transportation. So you'd just like go to the South Bank road, because there's two roads. There's the North Bank road and there's South Bank road. So that was only like a kilometer walk for me. So I'd go out there and then I'd just try and flag down a car if I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like hitchhike or something. Was that safe?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:336", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6019471537947805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my closest volunteers were a K away on each side. And Gambia doesn't really, I mean, like for my village, like we have no organized transportation. So you'd just like go to the South Bank road, because there's two roads. There's the North Bank road and there's South Bank road. So that was only like a kilometer walk for me. So I'd go out there and then I'd just try and flag down a car if I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like hitchhike or something. Was that safe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was? OK."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:338", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8910523931053116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my closest volunteers were a K away on each side. And Gambia doesn't really, I mean, like for my village, like we have no organized transportation. So you'd just like go to the South Bank road, because there's two roads. There's the North Bank road and there's South Bank road. So that was only like a kilometer walk for me. So I'd go out there and then I'd just try and flag down a car if I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like hitchhike or something. Was that safe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was? OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, that's what everyone did like, unless I was, because not everyone has a bicycle. So all the village people, if they're going to go somewhere, they're going to hitchhike there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a bicycle?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:342", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.458089374204088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, that's what everyone did like, unless I was, because not everyone has a bicycle. So all the village people, if they're going to go somewhere, they're going to hitchhike there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a bicycle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps gives all of the volunteers in my country bicycles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So mostly if I was going to go visit like the close volunteers, I'd just bike there. Because you can be sitting on the side of the road for like two, three, 4 hours. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shouldn't be laughing. Oh my. Oh goodness. Yeah. Do you want to say anything more about your work time versus leisure time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:344", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.73121041578232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps gives all of the volunteers in my country bicycles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So mostly if I was going to go visit like the close volunteers, I'd just bike there. Because you can be sitting on the side of the road for like two, three, 4 hours. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shouldn't be laughing. Oh my. Oh goodness. Yeah. Do you want to say anything more about your work time versus leisure time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I think it was. Isn't Peace Corps where like you're always working, like because you're always representing America?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you look at it that way, yes. Yes. We're little ambassadors. Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:346", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0346782397581333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So mostly if I was going to go visit like the close volunteers, I'd just bike there. Because you can be sitting on the side of the road for like two, three, 4 hours. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shouldn't be laughing. Oh my. Oh goodness. Yeah. Do you want to say anything more about your work time versus leisure time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I think it was. Isn't Peace Corps where like you're always working, like because you're always representing America?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you look at it that way, yes. Yes. We're little ambassadors. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's kind of what I think. I just, I mean, especially near the end of my service, like I didn't really want to be doing any. Like I found a lot of the time when I was doing like projects or work is because I was bored and I needed something to do. So I feel like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you read a lot?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:350", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.7465163453804116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's kind of what I think. I just, I mean, especially near the end of my service, like I didn't really want to be doing any. Like I found a lot of the time when I was doing like projects or work is because I was bored and I needed something to do. So I feel like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you read a lot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I read a lot. Like 2 to 3 books a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But so I think like near the end, I would just like, really if someone like approached me and said they wanted to do something, or if there was something like I really, really wanted to do, I would do it. But I was trying not to just like push things on people that were really mostly me being bored."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK. We'll move on to the ninth question. The end of your first year, if you can kind of remember how that was. Were there any notable events? I know your mom mentioned this health clinic day. Did that happen in your first year, this health clinic day?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:352", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0516848282004574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I read a lot. Like 2 to 3 books a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But so I think like near the end, I would just like, really if someone like approached me and said they wanted to do something, or if there was something like I really, really wanted to do, I would do it. But I was trying not to just like push things on people that were really mostly me being bored."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK. We'll move on to the ninth question. The end of your first year, if you can kind of remember how that was. Were there any notable events? I know your mom mentioned this health clinic day. Did that happen in your first year, this health clinic day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's just like so every month, like women go and have their babies weighed and they also get immunizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm interrupting you, I'm sorry, where? Because you had no health clinic."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:354", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.3907609202227302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But so I think like near the end, I would just like, really if someone like approached me and said they wanted to do something, or if there was something like I really, really wanted to do, I would do it. But I was trying not to just like push things on people that were really mostly me being bored."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK. We'll move on to the ninth question. The end of your first year, if you can kind of remember how that was. Were there any notable events? I know your mom mentioned this health clinic day. Did that happen in your first year, this health clinic day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's just like so every month, like women go and have their babies weighed and they also get immunizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm interrupting you, I'm sorry, where? Because you had no health clinic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So like our health clinic was the village next to us. And it wasn't actually a clinic. It was like they got some benches out and there was like some abandoned buildings that we used."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just abandoned buildings?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:356", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6564010224697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's just like so every month, like women go and have their babies weighed and they also get immunizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm interrupting you, I'm sorry, where? Because you had no health clinic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So like our health clinic was the village next to us. And it wasn't actually a clinic. It was like they got some benches out and there was like some abandoned buildings that we used."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just abandoned buildings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think their original built purpose was to be like the place for the women to go for the baby clinic day. But like when we didn't go there for baby clinic day, there was like nothing. No one there. And so once a month they get used for that. And then yeah, there is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you give health talks during that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:358", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.951556691633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So like our health clinic was the village next to us. And it wasn't actually a clinic. It was like they got some benches out and there was like some abandoned buildings that we used."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just abandoned buildings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think their original built purpose was to be like the place for the women to go for the baby clinic day. But like when we didn't go there for baby clinic day, there was like nothing. No one there. And so once a month they get used for that. And then yeah, there is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you give health talks during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like the hospital staff that would come and do the baby weigh ins gave really long health talks. So for a while I thought about, oh, I want to do a health talk. And then I was just like, I don't really want to. These guys already talk for so long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They come from, the hospital?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:360", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.2795074351477775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think their original built purpose was to be like the place for the women to go for the baby clinic day. But like when we didn't go there for baby clinic day, there was like nothing. No one there. And so once a month they get used for that. And then yeah, there is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you give health talks during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like the hospital staff that would come and do the baby weigh ins gave really long health talks. So for a while I thought about, oh, I want to do a health talk. And then I was just like, I don't really want to. These guys already talk for so long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They come from, the hospital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the hospital was ten K from my site and there's a volunteer in that village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Anything you want to say about, like how they word this, joys and woes after your first year?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:362", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.421674927941975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like the hospital staff that would come and do the baby weigh ins gave really long health talks. So for a while I thought about, oh, I want to do a health talk. And then I was just like, I don't really want to. These guys already talk for so long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They come from, the hospital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the hospital was ten K from my site and there's a volunteer in that village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Anything you want to say about, like how they word this, joys and woes after your first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to, I can't really remember my mindset at the first year. We had like a mid-service training. My parents came out right around my first year, which was really cool. They were in my village for about a week and then we did some of like the tourist stuff that I wouldn't pay for on a Peace Corps salary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like what was the tourist stuff?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:366", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7551542320271296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to, I can't really remember my mindset at the first year. We had like a mid-service training. My parents came out right around my first year, which was really cool. They were in my village for about a week and then we did some of like the tourist stuff that I wouldn't pay for on a Peace Corps salary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like what was the tourist stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was like a baboon island, or there was an island that had chimpanzees on it that you can like stay at a lodge and then go around the island in the boat. But you cannot go on the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there's like an eco lodge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then who runs that? The Gambians or others?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:368", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4076189739741145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was like a baboon island, or there was an island that had chimpanzees on it that you can like stay at a lodge and then go around the island in the boat. But you cannot go on the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there's like an eco lodge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then who runs that? The Gambians or others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's like a joint. It's mostly a venture by these British people, but they're trying to be like cooperative with the community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Any unexpected events during your first year?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:370", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6751321933045715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there's like an eco lodge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then who runs that? The Gambians or others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's like a joint. It's mostly a venture by these British people, but they're trying to be like cooperative with the community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Any unexpected events during your first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I just, like many things are unexpected, but I don't think there was anything like that really, really rocked.\n\nI think there was.\n\nYeah, I don't think I want to talk about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I'm sorry I'm laughing. This is the interviewer chuckling at times. Any relationships you want to talk about? With the Gambians, your host family?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:378", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6695914860145007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I just think it was just like run of the mill Peace Corps. Like I love, I mean, I guess some people don't like their host family, but I like had a very family like relationship with my host family. Sometimes they really ticked me off, but most of the time like they were my buds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the Peace Corps volunteer community. I mean, there's obviously some volunteers I didn't like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But for the most part, like all of the people in my group I was really good friends with and the people in my area less good friends with. But still there were some really good friends there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Any health problems?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:380", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.077323873349445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the Peace Corps volunteer community. I mean, there's obviously some volunteers I didn't like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But for the most part, like all of the people in my group I was really good friends with and the people in my area less good friends with. But still there were some really good friends there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Any health problems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was sick, pretty sick, twice my first year, but just kind of like high fevers won't go down with medicine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what the cause was? I mean, did you ever get malaria?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:384", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.033733176974623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was sick, pretty sick, twice my first year, but just kind of like high fevers won't go down with medicine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what the cause was? I mean, did you ever get malaria?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't, but I was on Doxycycline for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doxycycline."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took antibiotics every day for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know we had to take Aralen, but."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:386", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.593036863305136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't, but I was on Doxycycline for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doxycycline."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took antibiotics every day for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know we had to take Aralen, but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, they were trying to make us take mefloquine, which was crazy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say it again?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:388", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.103374292561263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took antibiotics every day for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know we had to take Aralen, but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, they were trying to make us take mefloquine, which was crazy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say it again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mefloquine is the one that makes people go crazy, luckily there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you spell that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:392", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.3004620895818055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mefloquine is the one that makes people go crazy, luckily there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you spell that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "M-E-T-H. Meth-elquin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there's an F, but I just don't know how to spell it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You know, I don't know if you might know this. I know in Honduras they had Plasmodium vivax. I think in Africa."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:394", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.000513432868673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "M-E-T-H. Meth-elquin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there's an F, but I just don't know how to spell it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You know, I don't know if you might know this. I know in Honduras they had Plasmodium vivax. I think in Africa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're falciparum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I think that's more deadly."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:396", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.77834825874297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there's an F, but I just don't know how to spell it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You know, I don't know if you might know this. I know in Honduras they had Plasmodium vivax. I think in Africa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're falciparum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I think that's more deadly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, really, people can die from falciparum."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:398", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.531498065269967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're falciparum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I think that's more deadly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, really, people can die from falciparum."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so I would just get like really stressed out about if like, because cerebral malaria can kill you in 2 to 3 days. So if you have a fever that's not going down, like I think I am a secret hypochondriac. Like I'm not worried about like germs on your hand. But if I start feeling sick and I don't feel like I can explain why, I worry about things. But cerebral malaria is no joke so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I'm just being redundant for the interview. It was falciparum that they had in your area in Africa."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:400", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.368331183633297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, really, people can die from falciparum."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so I would just get like really stressed out about if like, because cerebral malaria can kill you in 2 to 3 days. So if you have a fever that's not going down, like I think I am a secret hypochondriac. Like I'm not worried about like germs on your hand. But if I start feeling sick and I don't feel like I can explain why, I worry about things. But cerebral malaria is no joke so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I'm just being redundant for the interview. It was falciparum that they had in your area in Africa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, P. falciparum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was doxycycline you took every day?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:402", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 9.298145759592552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so I would just get like really stressed out about if like, because cerebral malaria can kill you in 2 to 3 days. So if you have a fever that's not going down, like I think I am a secret hypochondriac. Like I'm not worried about like germs on your hand. But if I start feeling sick and I don't feel like I can explain why, I worry about things. But cerebral malaria is no joke so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I'm just being redundant for the interview. It was falciparum that they had in your area in Africa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, P. falciparum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was doxycycline you took every day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You never got malaria. Did you take a vacation? I know you already mentioned your parents coming."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:404", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.6646063995472797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, P. falciparum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was doxycycline you took every day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You never got malaria. Did you take a vacation? I know you already mentioned your parents coming."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, so my friend who serves in Morocco, I think around nine months in country I went to Morocco and I met another friend from Denver in Morocco. And then that friend from Denver came with me to Gambia. I also went to the Stomp Out Malaria conference at like nine. OK, no, so maybe I went at like ten or 11. Maybe like ten months I went to Morocco, but nine months I went to the Stomp Out Malaria conference in Senegal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Senegal. And Gambia borders Senegal, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:406", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.960673777274755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You never got malaria. Did you take a vacation? I know you already mentioned your parents coming."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, so my friend who serves in Morocco, I think around nine months in country I went to Morocco and I met another friend from Denver in Morocco. And then that friend from Denver came with me to Gambia. I also went to the Stomp Out Malaria conference at like nine. OK, no, so maybe I went at like ten or 11. Maybe like ten months I went to Morocco, but nine months I went to the Stomp Out Malaria conference in Senegal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Senegal. And Gambia borders Senegal, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. I also went to Dakar before that for some sightseeing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting. So Stomp Out Malaria conference. OK. And we already. This says travel but you talked about your vacation and all. We're on the tenth question out of 13. At the end of your tour, which for you was not that long ago."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:408", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.289637530305283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, so my friend who serves in Morocco, I think around nine months in country I went to Morocco and I met another friend from Denver in Morocco. And then that friend from Denver came with me to Gambia. I also went to the Stomp Out Malaria conference at like nine. OK, no, so maybe I went at like ten or 11. Maybe like ten months I went to Morocco, but nine months I went to the Stomp Out Malaria conference in Senegal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Senegal. And Gambia borders Senegal, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. I also went to Dakar before that for some sightseeing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting. So Stomp Out Malaria conference. OK. And we already. This says travel but you talked about your vacation and all. We're on the tenth question out of 13. At the end of your tour, which for you was not that long ago."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have, what was your sense of success, achievement, failure with your Peace Corps service?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:410", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5440417003392035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. I also went to Dakar before that for some sightseeing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting. So Stomp Out Malaria conference. OK. And we already. This says travel but you talked about your vacation and all. We're on the tenth question out of 13. At the end of your tour, which for you was not that long ago."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have, what was your sense of success, achievement, failure with your Peace Corps service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. [phone rings] Um, I guess I think near the end, I was so grateful for being given the time in The Gambia that I just. Even though, I mean, I don't think I accomplished anything but at the end of the day, like I'm not the one who's going to accomplish anything. Like if behavior is going to change, I think it's going to come from the Gambian people. It's not going to come from me being like, oh, sleep underneath your bed net. So that was really cool. I mean, like things that I felt really proud about. Like I got a deaf girl enrolled at the deaf school in the capital, so that was really cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh good, yes."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:412", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8267130003768925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have, what was your sense of success, achievement, failure with your Peace Corps service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. [phone rings] Um, I guess I think near the end, I was so grateful for being given the time in The Gambia that I just. Even though, I mean, I don't think I accomplished anything but at the end of the day, like I'm not the one who's going to accomplish anything. Like if behavior is going to change, I think it's going to come from the Gambian people. It's not going to come from me being like, oh, sleep underneath your bed net. So that was really cool. I mean, like things that I felt really proud about. Like I got a deaf girl enrolled at the deaf school in the capital, so that was really cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh good, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me. I had a really good garden when I left, but I'm pretty sure it's all done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I interrupt you and ask what kind of crops did you grow?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:414", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1407922226409917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. [phone rings] Um, I guess I think near the end, I was so grateful for being given the time in The Gambia that I just. Even though, I mean, I don't think I accomplished anything but at the end of the day, like I'm not the one who's going to accomplish anything. Like if behavior is going to change, I think it's going to come from the Gambian people. It's not going to come from me being like, oh, sleep underneath your bed net. So that was really cool. I mean, like things that I felt really proud about. Like I got a deaf girl enrolled at the deaf school in the capital, so that was really cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh good, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me. I had a really good garden when I left, but I'm pretty sure it's all done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I interrupt you and ask what kind of crops did you grow?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I built like a permaculture garden, so I was using berms and swales to direct the water and create like really good, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You lost me on that. Berms and swales?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:418", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8775212625197426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I built like a permaculture garden, so I was using berms and swales to direct the water and create like really good, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You lost me on that. Berms and swales?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's like bumps and troughs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To direct the water so it stays in the ground because we have such a dry season. So you can like soak up the rainy season water and save it for the dry season. But I had like two pomegranate trees and three passion fruit trees. Peace Corps told they told me they were going to replace me. This volunteer would have eaten passion fruit and pomegranate. Did not replace me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did people, um, I know you've talked about your garden, did people grow and or eat many vegetables?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:420", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.30835695835527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's like bumps and troughs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To direct the water so it stays in the ground because we have such a dry season. So you can like soak up the rainy season water and save it for the dry season. But I had like two pomegranate trees and three passion fruit trees. Peace Corps told they told me they were going to replace me. This volunteer would have eaten passion fruit and pomegranate. Did not replace me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did people, um, I know you've talked about your garden, did people grow and or eat many vegetables?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They like would grow vegetables. They're still, you want to sell vegetables? So it's just like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To make money?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:422", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6759521759502998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To direct the water so it stays in the ground because we have such a dry season. So you can like soak up the rainy season water and save it for the dry season. But I had like two pomegranate trees and three passion fruit trees. Peace Corps told they told me they were going to replace me. This volunteer would have eaten passion fruit and pomegranate. Did not replace me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did people, um, I know you've talked about your garden, did people grow and or eat many vegetables?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They like would grow vegetables. They're still, you want to sell vegetables? So it's just like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To make money?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Like I would if I was at the market, I would buy a ton of vegetables and give them to my family so that we would eat some. But it's just like, yeah, vegetable, it's just not that much a part of the culture. Most people grow onions. That's what you want to grow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? How about fruit?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:424", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.084391306611444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They like would grow vegetables. They're still, you want to sell vegetables? So it's just like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To make money?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Like I would if I was at the market, I would buy a ton of vegetables and give them to my family so that we would eat some. But it's just like, yeah, vegetable, it's just not that much a part of the culture. Most people grow onions. That's what you want to grow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? How about fruit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's tons of mango trees everywhere, all over Gambia. So in mango season, you eat mangoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I forget about the season, so I thought, well, gosh, then you ate a lot of mangoes. In season. Yeah"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:426", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.573322600754868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Like I would if I was at the market, I would buy a ton of vegetables and give them to my family so that we would eat some. But it's just like, yeah, vegetable, it's just not that much a part of the culture. Most people grow onions. That's what you want to grow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? How about fruit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's tons of mango trees everywhere, all over Gambia. So in mango season, you eat mangoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I forget about the season, so I thought, well, gosh, then you ate a lot of mangoes. In season. Yeah"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There's banana trees. Like, I had a banana tree. I had one harvest and then it died. That can be year-round. There's an orange season, but the oranges are like somewhere between a lemon and orange. And there's papaya, and then there's like local fruit, which is baobab, bush mango. I don't even know what other stuff is called."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Interesting. And I know you, we'll end in a few minutes. I want it to end at a certain time. We have like 9 minutes on the recorder."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:432", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1581928679764997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell them about the women's garden.\n\nOh, well I got the pump fixed in the women's garden, but like as a long term, sustainable thing, it was like a $10,000 grant to fix it too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it's kind of like, Gambia is becoming more arid as time goes, so there's never like going to be enough water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Especially if I'm not replaced. Like, there's ways you can like make the water stuff more sustainable, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK. And I'm looking ahead at one of these questions, you know, it says. We won't even go into question 12, through the years have you continued any involvement? I mean, you've just been back a few months. So considering that you've been back a short time, is there anything else you might want to add about your service in The Gambia? I mean, you've given us a lot of good information. Interesting. Any regrets and satisfactions, we'll say?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.397992075529444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it's kind of like, Gambia is becoming more arid as time goes, so there's never like going to be enough water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Especially if I'm not replaced. Like, there's ways you can like make the water stuff more sustainable, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK. And I'm looking ahead at one of these questions, you know, it says. We won't even go into question 12, through the years have you continued any involvement? I mean, you've just been back a few months. So considering that you've been back a short time, is there anything else you might want to add about your service in The Gambia? I mean, you've given us a lot of good information. Interesting. Any regrets and satisfactions, we'll say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I don't know. I think, I guess almost I wish I hadn't taken things so seriously in the first year and just, like, spent more time like enjoying my village and being with the people there and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What would you do with the people, I mean, like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2894267154039007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just like, so they like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking, dancing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, talking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Playing soccer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I played soccer with them for a bit, but it was like only guys and it's so hot there and I just really wasn't. In the end, I wasn't enjoying it enough to do it. Mostly people just like sit there and they brew this thing called attaya, which is like green tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you spell that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.6549185726710007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, talking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Playing soccer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I played soccer with them for a bit, but it was like only guys and it's so hot there and I just really wasn't. In the end, I wasn't enjoying it enough to do it. Mostly people just like sit there and they brew this thing called attaya, which is like green tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you spell that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A-T-T-A-Y-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a green tea?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.9499095251900007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I played soccer with them for a bit, but it was like only guys and it's so hot there and I just really wasn't. In the end, I wasn't enjoying it enough to do it. Mostly people just like sit there and they brew this thing called attaya, which is like green tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you spell that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A-T-T-A-Y-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a green tea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's like Chinese gunpowder tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you drank a lot of attaya."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.1665661391000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A-T-T-A-Y-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a green tea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's like Chinese gunpowder tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you drank a lot of attaya."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think that's, that you can find all throughout West Africa. It's a really big like thing that they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you like the taste?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2961845990000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's like Chinese gunpowder tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you drank a lot of attaya."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think that's, that you can find all throughout West Africa. It's a really big like thing that they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you like the taste?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of. It was really strong. I don't know. It's just like, that's just like what people do. That's like how you pass a day. You just like brew some attaya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Do you think you helped the Gambians, like provide, as they say, better understanding of the United States or whatever?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4402051100000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think that's, that you can find all throughout West Africa. It's a really big like thing that they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you like the taste?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of. It was really strong. I don't know. It's just like, that's just like what people do. That's like how you pass a day. You just like brew some attaya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Do you think you helped the Gambians, like provide, as they say, better understanding of the United States or whatever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, do they get to, do you think they got to know you and thought, what do they think of you and or Americans after your life there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6002279000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of. It was really strong. I don't know. It's just like, that's just like what people do. That's like how you pass a day. You just like brew some attaya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Do you think you helped the Gambians, like provide, as they say, better understanding of the United States or whatever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, do they get to, do you think they got to know you and thought, what do they think of you and or Americans after your life there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was like, that is why I feel like my Peace Corps service was like meaningful, or not. Worthwhile."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That it was or was not?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7780310000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, do they get to, do you think they got to know you and thought, what do they think of you and or Americans after your life there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was like, that is why I feel like my Peace Corps service was like meaningful, or not. Worthwhile."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That it was or was not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was worthwhile. OK."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:457", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9755900000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was like, that is why I feel like my Peace Corps service was like meaningful, or not. Worthwhile."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That it was or was not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was worthwhile. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because like I think especially in this day and age, like a lot of people see like American music videos and that's what they think of America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes. Uh huh. And TV shows if they get shows."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So just like having me live in the village, like on the same level as other villagers for a year, like wearing what they wear and working. I mean, they work a lot harder than I worked but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would like go to the rice fields and, you know, like get down and dirty. And I think that was really, I felt like meaningful because it's like, no, this is, we're just the same kind of people. Like, we just do our jobs or, you know, we talk to people. We take baths."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your plans for the future?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would like go to the rice fields and, you know, like get down and dirty. And I think that was really, I felt like meaningful because it's like, no, this is, we're just the same kind of people. Like, we just do our jobs or, you know, we talk to people. We take baths."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your plans for the future?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'm hopefully, we'll see. I don't. I feel like Peace Corps really taught me that like, you know, don't make plans too far ahead of things and your life can always change and go in a different direction. But I'm looking to become a nurse, so I'm taking like prerequisites starting this summer. But it's also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where are you taking the pre reqs at?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'm hopefully, we'll see. I don't. I feel like Peace Corps really taught me that like, you know, don't make plans too far ahead of things and your life can always change and go in a different direction. But I'm looking to become a nurse, so I'm taking like prerequisites starting this summer. But it's also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where are you taking the pre reqs at?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Community College of Denver."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But also like I plan to do the summer semester as kind of like a trial. Like if I don't think it's cut out for me, then it won't have been that much money down the drain to just do a couple of classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I know this is, I'm not supposed to talk about myself, but I think I told you at the happy hour, there's so many different fields in nursing that one field may not suit you, my opinion, but another one might, you know?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Community College of Denver."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But also like I plan to do the summer semester as kind of like a trial. Like if I don't think it's cut out for me, then it won't have been that much money down the drain to just do a couple of classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I know this is, I'm not supposed to talk about myself, but I think I told you at the happy hour, there's so many different fields in nursing that one field may not suit you, my opinion, but another one might, you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I know. Anything else? You wanted to end about 6:15. Anything you might want to add?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00017:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But also like I plan to do the summer semester as kind of like a trial. Like if I don't think it's cut out for me, then it won't have been that much money down the drain to just do a couple of classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I know this is, I'm not supposed to talk about myself, but I think I told you at the happy hour, there's so many different fields in nursing that one field may not suit you, my opinion, but another one might, you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I know. Anything else? You wanted to end about 6:15. Anything you might want to add?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How? Well, I'll just ask. What was the effect of your Peace Corps service on you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.801150999196793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I actually came down in April."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In April?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In April of ’83. For one of the launches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came in April, did you start your position then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t start. I went back and then came back down in July."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the Deputy Director at that time, under Gerry [Gerald D.] Griffin."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.44572333244088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In April of ’83. For one of the launches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came in April, did you start your position then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t start. I went back and then came back down in July."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the Deputy Director at that time, under Gerry [Gerald D.] Griffin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also were still attached to [NASA] Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia] at that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.273025924934313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t start. I went back and then came back down in July."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the Deputy Director at that time, under Gerry [Gerald D.] Griffin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also were still attached to [NASA] Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia] at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that work, having that dual assignment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.858917694371458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also were still attached to [NASA] Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia] at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that work, having that dual assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That worked fine, as I remember it. I went back a couple of times, but it worked very well. In fact, Hans Mark, who sent me to JSC, sent me down with about three different goals in mind. One was to get experience on the Space Shuttle operations. The other was to start Space Station, and to get a leading role for JSC in that endeavor. So that was pretty simple, and I thought that by coming down for a space launch, that I would start on the first of those goals. He was a Deputy Administrator at that time. I think James [M.] Beggs was on a leave of absence. He was the Administrator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came down here, did you still maintain duties at Langley or were you still—what were you doing? You said you went back and forth."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.50990854930162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that work, having that dual assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That worked fine, as I remember it. I went back a couple of times, but it worked very well. In fact, Hans Mark, who sent me to JSC, sent me down with about three different goals in mind. One was to get experience on the Space Shuttle operations. The other was to start Space Station, and to get a leading role for JSC in that endeavor. So that was pretty simple, and I thought that by coming down for a space launch, that I would start on the first of those goals. He was a Deputy Administrator at that time. I think James [M.] Beggs was on a leave of absence. He was the Administrator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came down here, did you still maintain duties at Langley or were you still—what were you doing? You said you went back and forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, between April and July, and I still maintained duties [as Director of Structures]. I wasn’t officially sent down here until July."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How prepared do you feel you were to take over the Deputy Director position at that point in your career?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.233231721446245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That worked fine, as I remember it. I went back a couple of times, but it worked very well. In fact, Hans Mark, who sent me to JSC, sent me down with about three different goals in mind. One was to get experience on the Space Shuttle operations. The other was to start Space Station, and to get a leading role for JSC in that endeavor. So that was pretty simple, and I thought that by coming down for a space launch, that I would start on the first of those goals. He was a Deputy Administrator at that time. I think James [M.] Beggs was on a leave of absence. He was the Administrator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came down here, did you still maintain duties at Langley or were you still—what were you doing? You said you went back and forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, between April and July, and I still maintained duties [as Director of Structures]. I wasn’t officially sent down here until July."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How prepared do you feel you were to take over the Deputy Director position at that point in your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s an interesting question. How prepared was I? I don’t think I was really that prepared. I was going into a new culture, a new Center, and I didn’t realize how much that entailed. You know, I’d risen up as far as I could go, except for Director or Deputy Director at Langley, so coming to JSC was kind of natural, but I didn’t realize at the time what it entailed. That’s the best way to put it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You took part in the [NASA] Headquarters Executive Program at NASA?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.148035246051382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, between April and July, and I still maintained duties [as Director of Structures]. I wasn’t officially sent down here until July."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How prepared do you feel you were to take over the Deputy Director position at that point in your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s an interesting question. How prepared was I? I don’t think I was really that prepared. I was going into a new culture, a new Center, and I didn’t realize how much that entailed. You know, I’d risen up as far as I could go, except for Director or Deputy Director at Langley, so coming to JSC was kind of natural, but I didn’t realize at the time what it entailed. That’s the best way to put it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You took part in the [NASA] Headquarters Executive Program at NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that help you at all with this transition?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.275594717834867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s an interesting question. How prepared was I? I don’t think I was really that prepared. I was going into a new culture, a new Center, and I didn’t realize how much that entailed. You know, I’d risen up as far as I could go, except for Director or Deputy Director at Langley, so coming to JSC was kind of natural, but I didn’t realize at the time what it entailed. That’s the best way to put it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You took part in the [NASA] Headquarters Executive Program at NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that help you at all with this transition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. [Laughs] No. It’s one thing to learn out of books and a lot of the theory involved, and even, you know, to take small exercises, but to actually live through it is something different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain to us some of your day-to-day activities when you first came here and what your duties were and how they were explained to you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.528438575372075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that help you at all with this transition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. [Laughs] No. It’s one thing to learn out of books and a lot of the theory involved, and even, you know, to take small exercises, but to actually live through it is something different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain to us some of your day-to-day activities when you first came here and what your duties were and how they were explained to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, [Gerald D.] Gerry Griffin was a good boss. He more or less said that what he did is what I would do and watch him, so anything that, you know, he decided to let me do, I would do, which kind of entailed mostly, you know, meetings and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anything to do with mission planning or any sort of connection with that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.031598417080083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. [Laughs] No. It’s one thing to learn out of books and a lot of the theory involved, and even, you know, to take small exercises, but to actually live through it is something different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain to us some of your day-to-day activities when you first came here and what your duties were and how they were explained to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, [Gerald D.] Gerry Griffin was a good boss. He more or less said that what he did is what I would do and watch him, so anything that, you know, he decided to let me do, I would do, which kind of entailed mostly, you know, meetings and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anything to do with mission planning or any sort of connection with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Yes]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that Hans Mark wanted you to get experience with the Shuttle Program."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 27.81288713008898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, [Gerald D.] Gerry Griffin was a good boss. He more or less said that what he did is what I would do and watch him, so anything that, you know, he decided to let me do, I would do, which kind of entailed mostly, you know, meetings and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anything to do with mission planning or any sort of connection with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Yes]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that Hans Mark wanted you to get experience with the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, operations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you go about doing that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.569874588987755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Yes]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that Hans Mark wanted you to get experience with the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, operations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you go about doing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was in the Mission Control room, or either at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] for a launch and then back here, throughout the whole mission, except for when I went home to sleep, and I watched all the controllers in the Mission Control Center. We were in Building 30 at that time. I went to the backup rooms and saw what they did. So it was more or less learning on-the-job training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that interesting to you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 30.633193987764173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, operations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you go about doing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was in the Mission Control room, or either at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] for a launch and then back here, throughout the whole mission, except for when I went home to sleep, and I watched all the controllers in the Mission Control Center. We were in Building 30 at that time. I went to the backup rooms and saw what they did. So it was more or less learning on-the-job training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that interesting to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was very interesting. In fact, that really made the time whiz by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know when you were at Langley, some of the work you did was with the tiles and that sort of thing. Did that have any bearing on this job?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 28.481326653071303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was in the Mission Control room, or either at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] for a launch and then back here, throughout the whole mission, except for when I went home to sleep, and I watched all the controllers in the Mission Control Center. We were in Building 30 at that time. I went to the backup rooms and saw what they did. So it was more or less learning on-the-job training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that interesting to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was very interesting. In fact, that really made the time whiz by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know when you were at Langley, some of the work you did was with the tiles and that sort of thing. Did that have any bearing on this job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. In fact, I was at Rockwell [International Corporation] for like six weeks in 1980, when all the tiles fell off the 747 ferry flight. We were part of the team that was headed by Phil Glenn of JSC at that time. We had [come] from around the country, various structural people, structural dynamicists, and we solved the problem. You know, the densified tiles are the result of that team’s efforts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the relationship between the JSC administration and other parts of NASA, the flight controllers, the engineers, managers, that sort of thing? You were talking about the culture earlier."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 24.979251836745892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was very interesting. In fact, that really made the time whiz by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know when you were at Langley, some of the work you did was with the tiles and that sort of thing. Did that have any bearing on this job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. In fact, I was at Rockwell [International Corporation] for like six weeks in 1980, when all the tiles fell off the 747 ferry flight. We were part of the team that was headed by Phil Glenn of JSC at that time. We had [come] from around the country, various structural people, structural dynamicists, and we solved the problem. You know, the densified tiles are the result of that team’s efforts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the relationship between the JSC administration and other parts of NASA, the flight controllers, the engineers, managers, that sort of thing? You were talking about the culture earlier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s another interesting question, because the [fourth] reason I was sent here, I think—this wasn’t stated at the time—was to bring some of Langley’s culture to JSC. JSC did not get along well with [NASA] Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama] at the time. As you remember, at the time I was here, that was while we were doing Space Station and we had the work-package breakdown, and there was a lot of fighting between Centers on the work package—who got what, so to speak. So I think I was, you know, kind of sent here to help soothe that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From what I’ve read, that was one of the things that you really advocated, was that intercenter cooperation."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 27.375826579189976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was for JSC, myself. [Laughs] So I didn’t probably help in smoothing that over as much as I could have. Plus, I had the Shuttle\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n [accident] at that time, and my boss had quit, so it was kind of a hectic time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that process, do you feel like there was an agreement that was eventually reached as far as the Space Station, at that time, not later on, but at that time, in the middle eighties, the two had that cooperation? Do you feel like it was ever actually achieved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in my tenure. I think Aaron Cohen took over the Center in October in [19]’86, and I think he achieved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you mentioned it, let’s go ahead and talk about the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n time, and, as you said, there were a lot of changes going on. In the years prior to\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , the remote sensing program was phased out. You lost Glynn [S.] Lunney, Hans Mark retired, William [R.] Graham came into the picture, and then James Beggs was indicted. Then on January 14th [1986], Gerry Griffin retired and left you somewhat in charge for a couple of weeks as the acting director. Then just a few days before the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , then, of course, Mr. [Jesse W.] Moore was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in Headquarters, came down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that period of time and how those changes and those fluctuations affected the Center prior to\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , and give us an idea of what the feeling was and how it affected you in your position?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.97314064354442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in my tenure. I think Aaron Cohen took over the Center in October in [19]’86, and I think he achieved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you mentioned it, let’s go ahead and talk about the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n time, and, as you said, there were a lot of changes going on. In the years prior to\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , the remote sensing program was phased out. You lost Glynn [S.] Lunney, Hans Mark retired, William [R.] Graham came into the picture, and then James Beggs was indicted. Then on January 14th [1986], Gerry Griffin retired and left you somewhat in charge for a couple of weeks as the acting director. Then just a few days before the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , then, of course, Mr. [Jesse W.] Moore was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in Headquarters, came down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that period of time and how those changes and those fluctuations affected the Center prior to\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , and give us an idea of what the feeling was and how it affected you in your position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was devastated from\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n . The only trouble we’d had on the launch pad was ice off the tower coming down. That was deemed to be acceptable, so we went, and even though—I was not aware that there was a ring problem in the solid boosters. I can remember that I was in Mission Control Center when it launched, and I was on the phone in that little room, the glass room with the President’s office—I assumed [it] was the President’s office,—oh, most of the day. It was a long period. And that’s when we lost control, because the President [Ronald Reagan] said he was going to set up this commission, and so forth and so on. We had an Acting Administrator, who was Bill Graham. He was on vacation at the time. I couldn’t get a hold of him. So, you know, what could I do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 28.8590451594938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in Headquarters, came down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that period of time and how those changes and those fluctuations affected the Center prior to\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , and give us an idea of what the feeling was and how it affected you in your position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was devastated from\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n . The only trouble we’d had on the launch pad was ice off the tower coming down. That was deemed to be acceptable, so we went, and even though—I was not aware that there was a ring problem in the solid boosters. I can remember that I was in Mission Control Center when it launched, and I was on the phone in that little room, the glass room with the President’s office—I assumed [it] was the President’s office,—oh, most of the day. It was a long period. And that’s when we lost control, because the President [Ronald Reagan] said he was going to set up this commission, and so forth and so on. We had an Acting Administrator, who was Bill Graham. He was on vacation at the time. I couldn’t get a hold of him. So, you know, what could I do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I stayed on the phone and listened, primarily. They did most of the talking at their end. They set up this [Presidential] commission [over my objections]…."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your actions immediately following the accident? What did you have to do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 19.20869772777012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I stayed on the phone and listened, primarily. They did most of the talking at their end. They set up this [Presidential] commission [over my objections]…."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your actions immediately following the accident? What did you have to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the first thing was to shut down all the data to make sure that it was locked up, which is the primary administrative duty that you have to do. Then we set up teams that went out and investigated what could possibly—in fact, in two weeks we had a perfect scenario, computer simulation, of what happened. There was a meeting at Headquarters—I think Bill Graham chaired it; I’m not sure about that—but all the Center Directors were there, and they went around the table with the question on the floor being how long should we be down? I remember General Lew Allen [Jr.] from JPL [NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California] and myself were the only two out of all the Center Directors that said let’s launch within as long as it takes to put a bellyband around that joint, and they wouldn’t accept that.\\n\\n So, as far as the accident went, I was devastated. They had reporters at my home interviewing my six-year-old. I was kind of devastated is the only way to put it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in any other public relations activities immediately following it? Did you have to give any statements?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, to the press, but I didn’t testify in Congress. Let’s see. Glynn Lunney and—there was another fellow that was here, who was head of the Space Shuttle Office [Arnold D. Aldrich at JSC]—[Jess] Moore, who was head of the Shuttle office in Washington. But they all testified in Congress. I did not testify."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To what degree were you involved in the investigation?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.676330808633464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the first thing was to shut down all the data to make sure that it was locked up, which is the primary administrative duty that you have to do. Then we set up teams that went out and investigated what could possibly—in fact, in two weeks we had a perfect scenario, computer simulation, of what happened. There was a meeting at Headquarters—I think Bill Graham chaired it; I’m not sure about that—but all the Center Directors were there, and they went around the table with the question on the floor being how long should we be down? I remember General Lew Allen [Jr.] from JPL [NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California] and myself were the only two out of all the Center Directors that said let’s launch within as long as it takes to put a bellyband around that joint, and they wouldn’t accept that.\\n\\n So, as far as the accident went, I was devastated. They had reporters at my home interviewing my six-year-old. I was kind of devastated is the only way to put it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in any other public relations activities immediately following it? Did you have to give any statements?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, to the press, but I didn’t testify in Congress. Let’s see. Glynn Lunney and—there was another fellow that was here, who was head of the Space Shuttle Office [Arnold D. Aldrich at JSC]—[Jess] Moore, who was head of the Shuttle office in Washington. But they all testified in Congress. I did not testify."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To what degree were you involved in the investigation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as much as I would have liked. I went around and saw—I had reports coming to me on what happened. I had cut off the press at that time. I was interviewed by [Samuel A.] Sam Nunn from—I guess he was Senator from Georgia at that time, plus [Dole] Meyers, who had been with NASA earlier…. In fact, Sam Nunn came on a Saturday and I had that interview in the office in Building 1. That was a lengthy stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that at all?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.30703423181496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, to the press, but I didn’t testify in Congress. Let’s see. Glynn Lunney and—there was another fellow that was here, who was head of the Space Shuttle Office [Arnold D. Aldrich at JSC]—[Jess] Moore, who was head of the Shuttle office in Washington. But they all testified in Congress. I did not testify."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To what degree were you involved in the investigation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as much as I would have liked. I went around and saw—I had reports coming to me on what happened. I had cut off the press at that time. I was interviewed by [Samuel A.] Sam Nunn from—I guess he was Senator from Georgia at that time, plus [Dole] Meyers, who had been with NASA earlier…. In fact, Sam Nunn came on a Saturday and I had that interview in the office in Building 1. That was a lengthy stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’d rather not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you have any contact with the Presidential Commission?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.007815813127735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as much as I would have liked. I went around and saw—I had reports coming to me on what happened. I had cut off the press at that time. I was interviewed by [Samuel A.] Sam Nunn from—I guess he was Senator from Georgia at that time, plus [Dole] Meyers, who had been with NASA earlier…. In fact, Sam Nunn came on a Saturday and I had that interview in the office in Building 1. That was a lengthy stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’d rather not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you have any contact with the Presidential Commission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only the ones that were from JSC. Sally [K.] Ride was on that commission, as well as others. They were helping out, so we tried to provide them as much help as possible, but I was not called to testify before them or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the atmosphere at JSC as far as everyone else in trying to get people motivated and get over this problem?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.675350903475262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’d rather not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you have any contact with the Presidential Commission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only the ones that were from JSC. Sally [K.] Ride was on that commission, as well as others. They were helping out, so we tried to provide them as much help as possible, but I was not called to testify before them or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the atmosphere at JSC as far as everyone else in trying to get people motivated and get over this problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The morale was extremely low, as you can imagine. Everyone was devastated. There was nothing going on except Space Station, which was just starting out, because it was almost three years that Shuttle was down. So the morale was very bad. There were a lot of people leaving. The job was to retain people, to be frank with you, and to motivate them, and we tried to do that with new programs and so forth, but it was pretty tough to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of new programs?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.972612114972513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only the ones that were from JSC. Sally [K.] Ride was on that commission, as well as others. They were helping out, so we tried to provide them as much help as possible, but I was not called to testify before them or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the atmosphere at JSC as far as everyone else in trying to get people motivated and get over this problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The morale was extremely low, as you can imagine. Everyone was devastated. There was nothing going on except Space Station, which was just starting out, because it was almost three years that Shuttle was down. So the morale was very bad. There were a lot of people leaving. The job was to retain people, to be frank with you, and to motivate them, and we tried to do that with new programs and so forth, but it was pretty tough to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of new programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Space Station, primarily. We went through a planning exercise right after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , from [19]’86 to [19]’87, and as I remember, we had Shuttle, Space Station [and] advanced programs. There was a lot of things in the advance programs that were new programs and so forth, trips to Mars, the Moon, etc., that we hoped would motivate the people, and we actually started some of those. That was done under a fellow that died. Bill [William J. Huffstetler]—he was a nice young guy, too. He died of a heart attack."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that—or maybe, if it did, how the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident affected the Station Program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.191791238858347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The morale was extremely low, as you can imagine. Everyone was devastated. There was nothing going on except Space Station, which was just starting out, because it was almost three years that Shuttle was down. So the morale was very bad. There were a lot of people leaving. The job was to retain people, to be frank with you, and to motivate them, and we tried to do that with new programs and so forth, but it was pretty tough to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of new programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Space Station, primarily. We went through a planning exercise right after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , from [19]’86 to [19]’87, and as I remember, we had Shuttle, Space Station [and] advanced programs. There was a lot of things in the advance programs that were new programs and so forth, trips to Mars, the Moon, etc., that we hoped would motivate the people, and we actually started some of those. That was done under a fellow that died. Bill [William J. Huffstetler]—he was a nice young guy, too. He died of a heart attack."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that—or maybe, if it did, how the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident affected the Station Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it affected it a great deal, the way it came out. I think JSC was destined to be lead had there not been a\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident. As it turned out, I think Marshall gained the majority of the lead. The work packages they got were really the guts of the whole matter. I think JSC’s in big trouble right now, the reason being is because prior to now, Marshall had gotten the next-generation launch vehicle for manned space flight as well as for unmanned. Well, that just put JSC in the operations game. I think that’s a mistake. JSC’s got to be on the cutting edge of any new launch vehicle as well as the operations of same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Immediately after the accident, you implemented NASA’s accident contingency plan?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.546434709842607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Space Station, primarily. We went through a planning exercise right after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , from [19]’86 to [19]’87, and as I remember, we had Shuttle, Space Station [and] advanced programs. There was a lot of things in the advance programs that were new programs and so forth, trips to Mars, the Moon, etc., that we hoped would motivate the people, and we actually started some of those. That was done under a fellow that died. Bill [William J. Huffstetler]—he was a nice young guy, too. He died of a heart attack."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that—or maybe, if it did, how the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident affected the Station Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it affected it a great deal, the way it came out. I think JSC was destined to be lead had there not been a\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident. As it turned out, I think Marshall gained the majority of the lead. The work packages they got were really the guts of the whole matter. I think JSC’s in big trouble right now, the reason being is because prior to now, Marshall had gotten the next-generation launch vehicle for manned space flight as well as for unmanned. Well, that just put JSC in the operations game. I think that’s a mistake. JSC’s got to be on the cutting edge of any new launch vehicle as well as the operations of same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Immediately after the accident, you implemented NASA’s accident contingency plan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that decision and why it was you that did that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.82937189982512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it affected it a great deal, the way it came out. I think JSC was destined to be lead had there not been a\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident. As it turned out, I think Marshall gained the majority of the lead. The work packages they got were really the guts of the whole matter. I think JSC’s in big trouble right now, the reason being is because prior to now, Marshall had gotten the next-generation launch vehicle for manned space flight as well as for unmanned. Well, that just put JSC in the operations game. I think that’s a mistake. JSC’s got to be on the cutting edge of any new launch vehicle as well as the operations of same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Immediately after the accident, you implemented NASA’s accident contingency plan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that decision and why it was you that did that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was just a natural thing to do, you know. I’m wondering what the heck to do, first, and the very day of the accident, as was told to me by [Eugene F.] Gene Kranz, who was in the Mission Control Center, and so I did it. There wasn’t any decision to be made, really. It was already in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was Mr. Moore during the accident?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.254857666472354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that decision and why it was you that did that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was just a natural thing to do, you know. I’m wondering what the heck to do, first, and the very day of the accident, as was told to me by [Eugene F.] Gene Kranz, who was in the Mission Control Center, and so I did it. There wasn’t any decision to be made, really. It was already in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was Mr. Moore during the accident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the accident, I don’t know. He was in Washington [D.C.] at the time, but I don’t know where he was during the accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he stay in Washington for a while or did he come down here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.616508518302615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was just a natural thing to do, you know. I’m wondering what the heck to do, first, and the very day of the accident, as was told to me by [Eugene F.] Gene Kranz, who was in the Mission Control Center, and so I did it. There wasn’t any decision to be made, really. It was already in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was Mr. Moore during the accident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the accident, I don’t know. He was in Washington [D.C.] at the time, but I don’t know where he was during the accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he stay in Washington for a while or did he come down here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He stayed for a while in Washington and then he came here—I can’t remember what the date was, but in mid-summer. Two or three months later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you Acting Director during all that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.129453909225127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the accident, I don’t know. He was in Washington [D.C.] at the time, but I don’t know where he was during the accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he stay in Washington for a while or did he come down here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He stayed for a while in Washington and then he came here—I can’t remember what the date was, but in mid-summer. Two or three months later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you Acting Director during all that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He didn’t do it remotely?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.810504343583474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He stayed for a while in Washington and then he came here—I can’t remember what the date was, but in mid-summer. Two or three months later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you Acting Director during all that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He didn’t do it remotely?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the Acting Director. Okay.\\n\\n Let’s go back for a moment prior to that and talk about some of your other duties as Deputy Director. You represented JSC as an Equal Opportunity Council member?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.678338159537194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He didn’t do it remotely?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the Acting Director. Okay.\\n\\n Let’s go back for a moment prior to that and talk about some of your other duties as Deputy Director. You represented JSC as an Equal Opportunity Council member?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about some of your experiences on that council and some of the progress during the time you were there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.642597955041328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the Acting Director. Okay.\\n\\n Let’s go back for a moment prior to that and talk about some of your other duties as Deputy Director. You represented JSC as an Equal Opportunity Council member?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about some of your experiences on that council and some of the progress during the time you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember some of the progress, but we did make good progress, I remember that much. I made a speech at each of the annual meetings, and there was about four or five of them. We set goals for the Centers. I think we did fairly well in that area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also read that you created a Center Automatic Data Planning [ADP] Steering Committee."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.82510883893481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about some of your experiences on that council and some of the progress during the time you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember some of the progress, but we did make good progress, I remember that much. I made a speech at each of the annual meetings, and there was about four or five of them. We set goals for the Centers. I think we did fairly well in that area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also read that you created a Center Automatic Data Planning [ADP] Steering Committee."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I might have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t have any memories about that? I think it was to review the current and future ADP requirements to reduce costs. Was that just part of your general duties?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 24.250120932149787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember some of the progress, but we did make good progress, I remember that much. I made a speech at each of the annual meetings, and there was about four or five of them. We set goals for the Centers. I think we did fairly well in that area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also read that you created a Center Automatic Data Planning [ADP] Steering Committee."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I might have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t have any memories about that? I think it was to review the current and future ADP requirements to reduce costs. Was that just part of your general duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of the regular duties, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Center construction of facilities planning process."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.50013436905532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I might have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t have any memories about that? I think it was to review the current and future ADP requirements to reduce costs. Was that just part of your general duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of the regular duties, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Center construction of facilities planning process."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was an interesting one because Gerry evidently wasn’t interested in that, so I went to Headquarters a couple of times and advocated a number of new buildings and different changes at JSC. That was a very rewarding experience, not only dealing with the people in the other Centers and in Headquarters, but in getting the information from the people around JSC.\\n\\n In fact, the first thing I did when I got here, in July, was I took a tour. It took about [three] months and I went and spent hours at each organization. They told me what they did and so forth, and that was very helpful when it came time to see what their needs were as far as facilities went. So I thought that was a very rewarding part of my time. In fact, some of it didn’t come to fruition until I’d left, in [19]’87, ’88. In fact, I don’t know where it is right now, but the long-range planning guide, too, came out after I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a part in that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.000149298950355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of the regular duties, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Center construction of facilities planning process."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was an interesting one because Gerry evidently wasn’t interested in that, so I went to Headquarters a couple of times and advocated a number of new buildings and different changes at JSC. That was a very rewarding experience, not only dealing with the people in the other Centers and in Headquarters, but in getting the information from the people around JSC.\\n\\n In fact, the first thing I did when I got here, in July, was I took a tour. It took about [three] months and I went and spent hours at each organization. They told me what they did and so forth, and that was very helpful when it came time to see what their needs were as far as facilities went. So I thought that was a very rewarding part of my time. In fact, some of it didn’t come to fruition until I’d left, in [19]’87, ’88. In fact, I don’t know where it is right now, but the long-range planning guide, too, came out after I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a part in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, I was chairman of that. They sent me a copy of the brochure. It was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sort of buildings did you advocate building and what type of changes did you make before that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.44461033216706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was an interesting one because Gerry evidently wasn’t interested in that, so I went to Headquarters a couple of times and advocated a number of new buildings and different changes at JSC. That was a very rewarding experience, not only dealing with the people in the other Centers and in Headquarters, but in getting the information from the people around JSC.\\n\\n In fact, the first thing I did when I got here, in July, was I took a tour. It took about [three] months and I went and spent hours at each organization. They told me what they did and so forth, and that was very helpful when it came time to see what their needs were as far as facilities went. So I thought that was a very rewarding part of my time. In fact, some of it didn’t come to fruition until I’d left, in [19]’87, ’88. In fact, I don’t know where it is right now, but the long-range planning guide, too, came out after I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a part in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, I was chairman of that. They sent me a copy of the brochure. It was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sort of buildings did you advocate building and what type of changes did you make before that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. There was a Thermal Protection Facility, TPS. I don’t know if it was arc jet or what, but I remember advocating that for a couple of years. Didn’t make it the first year and then it did the second. I can’t remember all the facilities at this point in time, but there was an antenna facility and there was a WETF [Weightless Environment Training Facility] and so forth. We tried to keep the facilities actually going, and we got our share of the overall budget for the years that I was involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were there and as part of your day-to-day activities, did you have anything to do with the astronaut selection coming in during that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.160678146852288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, I was chairman of that. They sent me a copy of the brochure. It was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sort of buildings did you advocate building and what type of changes did you make before that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. There was a Thermal Protection Facility, TPS. I don’t know if it was arc jet or what, but I remember advocating that for a couple of years. Didn’t make it the first year and then it did the second. I can’t remember all the facilities at this point in time, but there was an antenna facility and there was a WETF [Weightless Environment Training Facility] and so forth. We tried to keep the facilities actually going, and we got our share of the overall budget for the years that I was involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were there and as part of your day-to-day activities, did you have anything to do with the astronaut selection coming in during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not the selection of the astronauts at all. I didn’t have anything to do with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the budget, in dealing with NASA’s and JSC’s budget during that time period?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.067420163169206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. There was a Thermal Protection Facility, TPS. I don’t know if it was arc jet or what, but I remember advocating that for a couple of years. Didn’t make it the first year and then it did the second. I can’t remember all the facilities at this point in time, but there was an antenna facility and there was a WETF [Weightless Environment Training Facility] and so forth. We tried to keep the facilities actually going, and we got our share of the overall budget for the years that I was involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were there and as part of your day-to-day activities, did you have anything to do with the astronaut selection coming in during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not the selection of the astronauts at all. I didn’t have anything to do with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the budget, in dealing with NASA’s and JSC’s budget during that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the budget at that time was $2 billion, I remember that, and I was very much involved in the budget allocation and how it was spent, and advocating for the budget at Headquarters, both at the Shuttle office as well as Code R [Office of Aerospace Technology] and Code S [Office of Space Science], [and] some of the other offices up there, so that took a great deal of my time, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Manpower planning or procurement?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.29713351463245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not the selection of the astronauts at all. I didn’t have anything to do with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the budget, in dealing with NASA’s and JSC’s budget during that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the budget at that time was $2 billion, I remember that, and I was very much involved in the budget allocation and how it was spent, and advocating for the budget at Headquarters, both at the Shuttle office as well as Code R [Office of Aerospace Technology] and Code S [Office of Space Science], [and] some of the other offices up there, so that took a great deal of my time, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Manpower planning or procurement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Manpower planning and procurement. In fact, I was the Procurement Chief for several awards and said what the various subcontractors and contractors would make for a given period of time. They were evaluated by committees, and then I was the Award Chairman or something. I remember doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else come to mind during that time, prior to\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , that you’d like to mention?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 35.88570390514717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the budget at that time was $2 billion, I remember that, and I was very much involved in the budget allocation and how it was spent, and advocating for the budget at Headquarters, both at the Shuttle office as well as Code R [Office of Aerospace Technology] and Code S [Office of Space Science], [and] some of the other offices up there, so that took a great deal of my time, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Manpower planning or procurement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Manpower planning and procurement. In fact, I was the Procurement Chief for several awards and said what the various subcontractors and contractors would make for a given period of time. They were evaluated by committees, and then I was the Award Chairman or something. I remember doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else come to mind during that time, prior to\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , that you’d like to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you feel the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n affected your career with NASA, if at all?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.31744878349685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Manpower planning and procurement. In fact, I was the Procurement Chief for several awards and said what the various subcontractors and contractors would make for a given period of time. They were evaluated by committees, and then I was the Award Chairman or something. I remember doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else come to mind during that time, prior to\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , that you’d like to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you feel the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n affected your career with NASA, if at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I left NASA in [19]’87. So I had made the decision to leave when Aaron Cohen became Center Director. I resigned that day and he said, well, he would replace me, but if I wanted a year to look for a job, I could. So I did. I put out a lot of résumés, and had three in Los Angeles area, and decided to go with the least [money] of the three, because it was all mostly aeronautics. It was the Skunk Works at Lockheed [Aircraft Corporation] at the time. So that’s where I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What led to that decision to leave NASA?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 38.130498648329834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you feel the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n affected your career with NASA, if at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I left NASA in [19]’87. So I had made the decision to leave when Aaron Cohen became Center Director. I resigned that day and he said, well, he would replace me, but if I wanted a year to look for a job, I could. So I did. I put out a lot of résumés, and had three in Los Angeles area, and decided to go with the least [money] of the three, because it was all mostly aeronautics. It was the Skunk Works at Lockheed [Aircraft Corporation] at the time. So that’s where I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What led to that decision to leave NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n had a great deal to do with it. Plus, I didn’t get the Center Director’s position. But I think\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n had a—I was in a very bad state of mind at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is perfectly understandable, after an accident and having to go through what you did."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 40.14499849814426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I left NASA in [19]’87. So I had made the decision to leave when Aaron Cohen became Center Director. I resigned that day and he said, well, he would replace me, but if I wanted a year to look for a job, I could. So I did. I put out a lot of résumés, and had three in Los Angeles area, and decided to go with the least [money] of the three, because it was all mostly aeronautics. It was the Skunk Works at Lockheed [Aircraft Corporation] at the time. So that’s where I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What led to that decision to leave NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n had a great deal to do with it. Plus, I didn’t get the Center Director’s position. But I think\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n had a—I was in a very bad state of mind at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is perfectly understandable, after an accident and having to go through what you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was interesting. When we had a memorial and President—at that time—[Ronald] Reagan came down and spoke, Bill Graham came down, but his wife took care of making all the arrangements. That was kind of strange, I thought. They operated out of my office up on the eighth floor of Building 1. But that was a trying experience, just arranging the whole memorial and the fly-by, etc., and setting it up. He gave a very excellent speech, I thought, and we had everybody there, but I just thought it was very strange that Bill Graham didn’t take a more active role in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you actually arrange the memorial service yourself?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 44.605553886826954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n had a great deal to do with it. Plus, I didn’t get the Center Director’s position. But I think\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n had a—I was in a very bad state of mind at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is perfectly understandable, after an accident and having to go through what you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was interesting. When we had a memorial and President—at that time—[Ronald] Reagan came down and spoke, Bill Graham came down, but his wife took care of making all the arrangements. That was kind of strange, I thought. They operated out of my office up on the eighth floor of Building 1. But that was a trying experience, just arranging the whole memorial and the fly-by, etc., and setting it up. He gave a very excellent speech, I thought, and we had everybody there, but I just thought it was very strange that Bill Graham didn’t take a more active role in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you actually arrange the memorial service yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, myself and his wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The two of you together. Is there anything else about that time period that you’d like to talk about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 49.56172654091883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was interesting. When we had a memorial and President—at that time—[Ronald] Reagan came down and spoke, Bill Graham came down, but his wife took care of making all the arrangements. That was kind of strange, I thought. They operated out of my office up on the eighth floor of Building 1. But that was a trying experience, just arranging the whole memorial and the fly-by, etc., and setting it up. He gave a very excellent speech, I thought, and we had everybody there, but I just thought it was very strange that Bill Graham didn’t take a more active role in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you actually arrange the memorial service yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, myself and his wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The two of you together. Is there anything else about that time period that you’d like to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I can remember right now. I kind of block it out of my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is understandable. Why don’t we go back to some of the earlier part of your career. You started working at Langley right out of college?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.038453726428603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chris Kraft. He was from VPI [Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, Blacksburg, Virginia]. He arranged to have us all get overtime for the Saturdays and Sundays and holidays we worked during that six weeks. And we worked like one holiday—[Memorial Day]. But, that was an interesting scenario. None of the four flew, on a computer. The reason that one won was because of past experience, Rockwell. They weren’t the lead technically or low cost. Then after they’d picked a winner, then they took the best of all four of them and put them together and made a new base line that flew. That’s kind of an interesting scenario."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in [19]’72, which was about nine years before the first flight, [19]’81.\\n\\n I graduated with [Richard H.] Dick Truly [who flew on that flight. The other astronaut on that flight was John W.Young]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Dick Truly became] an Administrator of NASA…. He was an astronaut—well, he had left, I guess right before I came, or shortly thereafter. He’s an interesting guy. He was a rear admiral in the Navy, but we both graduated from Georgia Tech [Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, Georgia] in [19]’59. He was the head of the Navy ROTC and I was the head of the Air Force ROTC, plus, we were both AEs, aeronautical engineers. There was only thirty-five of us that graduated that year, ’59. He was one. He’s done quite well. I lost track of him after he went to Colorado and he was head of some DOE [United States Department of Energy] research outfit, then I lost track of him after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first began at Langley, what exactly were you working on for those first few years?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.042726362698446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in [19]’72, which was about nine years before the first flight, [19]’81.\\n\\n I graduated with [Richard H.] Dick Truly [who flew on that flight. The other astronaut on that flight was John W.Young]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Dick Truly became] an Administrator of NASA…. He was an astronaut—well, he had left, I guess right before I came, or shortly thereafter. He’s an interesting guy. He was a rear admiral in the Navy, but we both graduated from Georgia Tech [Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, Georgia] in [19]’59. He was the head of the Navy ROTC and I was the head of the Air Force ROTC, plus, we were both AEs, aeronautical engineers. There was only thirty-five of us that graduated that year, ’59. He was one. He’s done quite well. I lost track of him after he went to Colorado and he was head of some DOE [United States Department of Energy] research outfit, then I lost track of him after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first began at Langley, what exactly were you working on for those first few years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first few years I was in hypersonics [aeroelasticity]. I was working in a wind tunnel, a series of wind tunnels, as a matter of fact. But mostly out of a helium blow-down tunnel, and we were experimenting with far-out stuff. I worked on a variable [-swept wing]—did subsonic, transonic, supersonic variable swept-wing flutter study. It was one of the reports I wrote. That was interesting. That was one the first things that I did at NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain a little bit of what a flutter study is?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 33.38080706966494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Dick Truly became] an Administrator of NASA…. He was an astronaut—well, he had left, I guess right before I came, or shortly thereafter. He’s an interesting guy. He was a rear admiral in the Navy, but we both graduated from Georgia Tech [Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, Georgia] in [19]’59. He was the head of the Navy ROTC and I was the head of the Air Force ROTC, plus, we were both AEs, aeronautical engineers. There was only thirty-five of us that graduated that year, ’59. He was one. He’s done quite well. I lost track of him after he went to Colorado and he was head of some DOE [United States Department of Energy] research outfit, then I lost track of him after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first began at Langley, what exactly were you working on for those first few years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first few years I was in hypersonics [aeroelasticity]. I was working in a wind tunnel, a series of wind tunnels, as a matter of fact. But mostly out of a helium blow-down tunnel, and we were experimenting with far-out stuff. I worked on a variable [-swept wing]—did subsonic, transonic, supersonic variable swept-wing flutter study. It was one of the reports I wrote. That was interesting. That was one the first things that I did at NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain a little bit of what a flutter study is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A flutter study—we ran a wind-tunnel program in three different tunnels, and we tried to find the flutter points. In other words, there’s a flutter index parameter versus Mach number, and we plotted it over the whole Mach number range from subsonic, transonic, to supersonic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In [19]’67, you went back to get a master’s degree?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 31.534230077405493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first few years I was in hypersonics [aeroelasticity]. I was working in a wind tunnel, a series of wind tunnels, as a matter of fact. But mostly out of a helium blow-down tunnel, and we were experimenting with far-out stuff. I worked on a variable [-swept wing]—did subsonic, transonic, supersonic variable swept-wing flutter study. It was one of the reports I wrote. That was interesting. That was one the first things that I did at NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain a little bit of what a flutter study is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A flutter study—we ran a wind-tunnel program in three different tunnels, and we tried to find the flutter points. In other words, there’s a flutter index parameter versus Mach number, and we plotted it over the whole Mach number range from subsonic, transonic, to supersonic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In [19]’67, you went back to get a master’s degree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, at VPI. Well, I actually went in [19]’63, [19]’64. I got my degree in ’67. I took a thesis route, so I wrote a thesis and it took several years for me to write it. But I was actually there in ’63 and ’64, in Blacksburg [Virginia]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What prompted you to do that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 32.81581119711721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A flutter study—we ran a wind-tunnel program in three different tunnels, and we tried to find the flutter points. In other words, there’s a flutter index parameter versus Mach number, and we plotted it over the whole Mach number range from subsonic, transonic, to supersonic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In [19]’67, you went back to get a master’s degree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, at VPI. Well, I actually went in [19]’63, [19]’64. I got my degree in ’67. I took a thesis route, so I wrote a thesis and it took several years for me to write it. But I was actually there in ’63 and ’64, in Blacksburg [Virginia]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What prompted you to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was bored more than anything else. Also, I was twenty-six, and I just figured that I needed to go back to school. I went up there in aeronautical engineering, and they only offered two courses in aeronautical engineering, the next semester, so I walked across the street and transferred to engineering mechanics, and that’s what I got a degree in. But I took most of my—air elasticity, hypersonics—most of my electives in aerospace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also worked on the aircraft tire and breaking problems on wet runways? Is that true?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.906456885685788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, at VPI. Well, I actually went in [19]’63, [19]’64. I got my degree in ’67. I took a thesis route, so I wrote a thesis and it took several years for me to write it. But I was actually there in ’63 and ’64, in Blacksburg [Virginia]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What prompted you to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was bored more than anything else. Also, I was twenty-six, and I just figured that I needed to go back to school. I went up there in aeronautical engineering, and they only offered two courses in aeronautical engineering, the next semester, so I walked across the street and transferred to engineering mechanics, and that’s what I got a degree in. But I took most of my—air elasticity, hypersonics—most of my electives in aerospace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also worked on the aircraft tire and breaking problems on wet runways? Is that true?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in [19]’71, I became a section head of the Flight Load Section. In [19]’73 or [19]’74, I became a branch head and then I became a Director. I skipped the division level, became a Director. One of the parts that was under me in the branch and the directorate was the Landing Loads Track, at Langley. They did the grooving at the Cape, and so forth, for Shuttle. They’re a very renowned group. They were on every U.S. domestic aircraft accident investigation, because they had a little car that would go down the runways in damp and wet and icy conditions and measure the friction. So, yes, I was in that group, but, I mean, that group was under me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also plan the Space Shuttle Approach and Landing Tests, or have anything to do with that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.340507650761985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was bored more than anything else. Also, I was twenty-six, and I just figured that I needed to go back to school. I went up there in aeronautical engineering, and they only offered two courses in aeronautical engineering, the next semester, so I walked across the street and transferred to engineering mechanics, and that’s what I got a degree in. But I took most of my—air elasticity, hypersonics—most of my electives in aerospace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also worked on the aircraft tire and breaking problems on wet runways? Is that true?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in [19]’71, I became a section head of the Flight Load Section. In [19]’73 or [19]’74, I became a branch head and then I became a Director. I skipped the division level, became a Director. One of the parts that was under me in the branch and the directorate was the Landing Loads Track, at Langley. They did the grooving at the Cape, and so forth, for Shuttle. They’re a very renowned group. They were on every U.S. domestic aircraft accident investigation, because they had a little car that would go down the runways in damp and wet and icy conditions and measure the friction. So, yes, I was in that group, but, I mean, that group was under me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also plan the Space Shuttle Approach and Landing Tests, or have anything to do with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In [19]’79, you went to NASA Headquarters, as we mentioned earlier."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 38.15611961195776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in [19]’71, I became a section head of the Flight Load Section. In [19]’73 or [19]’74, I became a branch head and then I became a Director. I skipped the division level, became a Director. One of the parts that was under me in the branch and the directorate was the Landing Loads Track, at Langley. They did the grooving at the Cape, and so forth, for Shuttle. They’re a very renowned group. They were on every U.S. domestic aircraft accident investigation, because they had a little car that would go down the runways in damp and wet and icy conditions and measure the friction. So, yes, I was in that group, but, I mean, that group was under me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also plan the Space Shuttle Approach and Landing Tests, or have anything to do with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In [19]’79, you went to NASA Headquarters, as we mentioned earlier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that come about, or that opportunity happen?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 35.72902179106418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In [19]’79, you went to NASA Headquarters, as we mentioned earlier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that come about, or that opportunity happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was some kind of a training program. I went up there for a year, worked in Code R. I was Manager of Structures [Division] for one year. I don’t know how it came about. I got called in by the Center Director, saying he wants me to go to Headquarters, “This is a steppingstone,” etc., etc. So I went. I had just moved into a new house, so I rented the house and went up there and lived in Reston [Virginia], which was way out. But I found that the cost of living in Washington, D.C., is directly proportional to the distance that you have to travel. So I was almost out to [Washington] Dulles [International Airport] before I could find a place that I could afford."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were your duties in that position?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.587801990071306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that come about, or that opportunity happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was some kind of a training program. I went up there for a year, worked in Code R. I was Manager of Structures [Division] for one year. I don’t know how it came about. I got called in by the Center Director, saying he wants me to go to Headquarters, “This is a steppingstone,” etc., etc. So I went. I had just moved into a new house, so I rented the house and went up there and lived in Reston [Virginia], which was way out. But I found that the cost of living in Washington, D.C., is directly proportional to the distance that you have to travel. So I was almost out to [Washington] Dulles [International Airport] before I could find a place that I could afford."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were your duties in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were primarily to advocate, to get monies out of Code R, out of Code R’s total budget, for the Code R program at the various centers. So that’s what I did, primarily, for the whole year, is advocate. We spoke to Congress, made presentations. Tried to get more money, is about the easiest way of putting it, and then allocate it to the Centers. Most of it went to Langley, Lewis [NASA Glenn Research Center at Lewis Field, Cleveland, Ohio], and [NASA] Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California], because they were the Code R Centers at that time, and, well, [NASA] Dryden [Flight Research Center, Edwards, California]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you play a role in the Technology Readiness Assessment during that time when you were at Headquarters?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.76422443341256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was some kind of a training program. I went up there for a year, worked in Code R. I was Manager of Structures [Division] for one year. I don’t know how it came about. I got called in by the Center Director, saying he wants me to go to Headquarters, “This is a steppingstone,” etc., etc. So I went. I had just moved into a new house, so I rented the house and went up there and lived in Reston [Virginia], which was way out. But I found that the cost of living in Washington, D.C., is directly proportional to the distance that you have to travel. So I was almost out to [Washington] Dulles [International Airport] before I could find a place that I could afford."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were your duties in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were primarily to advocate, to get monies out of Code R, out of Code R’s total budget, for the Code R program at the various centers. So that’s what I did, primarily, for the whole year, is advocate. We spoke to Congress, made presentations. Tried to get more money, is about the easiest way of putting it, and then allocate it to the Centers. Most of it went to Langley, Lewis [NASA Glenn Research Center at Lewis Field, Cleveland, Ohio], and [NASA] Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California], because they were the Code R Centers at that time, and, well, [NASA] Dryden [Flight Research Center, Edwards, California]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you play a role in the Technology Readiness Assessment during that time when you were at Headquarters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Technology Readiness Assessment?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the Shuttle Program."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 35.293582703791735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were primarily to advocate, to get monies out of Code R, out of Code R’s total budget, for the Code R program at the various centers. So that’s what I did, primarily, for the whole year, is advocate. We spoke to Congress, made presentations. Tried to get more money, is about the easiest way of putting it, and then allocate it to the Centers. Most of it went to Langley, Lewis [NASA Glenn Research Center at Lewis Field, Cleveland, Ohio], and [NASA] Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California], because they were the Code R Centers at that time, and, well, [NASA] Dryden [Flight Research Center, Edwards, California]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you play a role in the Technology Readiness Assessment during that time when you were at Headquarters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Technology Readiness Assessment?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Was that when you were back at Langley?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 29.215091893101928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Technology Readiness Assessment?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Was that when you were back at Langley?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was before I went up there. Yes, that was an interesting few years. I forget the years that was, but that was quite a bit before I went to Headquarters. The Technology Assessment Committee culminated in a meeting at Lewis, which is now Glenn, where they presented all the material and voted whether it was ready or not. Everybody thought they were ready. It was unanimous. It was in winter, I remember, in Lewis, because there was a lot of ice on the ground, and snow, and when we took off in the NASA plane, we were heading down the runway and we skidded sideways. So then the pilot said, “Well, we’re going to go around and try again.” [Laughter] And let me tell you, that time, we held on, but we made it off all right.\\n\\n There was another guy, Harry Runyan, was head of the Technology Assessment, and he retired and he left it to a fellow, David Stephens, who was an up-and-coming young guy out of Stanford Sloan [Program], and he was in an automobile accident. So I was in the right place at the right time, or something, so I got it, made a presentation and so forth, and went from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that process, the assessment process?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.53510547750607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was run from various—let’s see. Headquarters headed it up. There was teams of people that went across the Centers. Some were at Langley, some were at JSC, some were at Marshall, [Ames, Glenn,] some were head of them, but each of the teams had on them people from all the Centers. Each of the Centers did something, whether it was a wind-tunnel test or analysis, to see if the technology was ready for Shuttle. We at Langley did a lot of flutter studies, ground wind-load studies. That was the structural dynamics part. In the structures part, they did a lot of TPS, tile work and the arc jets, and so forth, panel flutter, and so forth. Max Faget had a straight-wing orbiter at that time, so that’s what their baseline was. It wasn’t until much later that we got what’s presently the orbiter.\\n\\n So we went through and did various technology assessments of the various configurations in each of these groups, across the board. Then they’d meet, oh, I don’t know, about once every four months or six months, and report their findings. Then they put out monthly reports. I remember that. That’s how we got to the Space Shuttle. That was a long process. That was about five [or] six years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it begin in the early seventies or mid-seventies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, it must have. It must have been during the seventies sometime, because—well, in [19]’72, we had a technical evaluation, so it was the late sixties and early seventies. Then I went to Headquarters in [19]’79, so it had to be early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you came back from Headquarters, you were the Special Assistant to the Chief of the Structural Mechanics Division at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that’s right, yes. I forgot about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your duties in that position?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 25.03900608611786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, it must have. It must have been during the seventies sometime, because—well, in [19]’72, we had a technical evaluation, so it was the late sixties and early seventies. Then I went to Headquarters in [19]’79, so it had to be early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you came back from Headquarters, you were the Special Assistant to the Chief of the Structural Mechanics Division at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that’s right, yes. I forgot about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your duties in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, most of the time I was out at Rockwell doing the Shuttle problem, where [the tiles] all fell off. In fact, that was about the whole thing I did there. I didn’t have any—“duties as assigned”—from Roger Anderson, who was the Division Chief. I think that was just a holding pattern."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the TPS system and your work with that and the final clearance for STS-1."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.802935659377926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Porosity in the composite tank. That’s why a liner would have fixed it, and you could have taken the weight out somewhere else. In fact, that’s the way the report wrote, but they buried the report, or they didn’t put it out for a long time, and when they did put it out, they’d already made the decision to cancel it. But that, to me, was the way to go. More durable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about STS-1. Were you able to see the launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t see the launch—well, I saw it on television. I didn’t see the launch of STS-1 at all. I was at Langley. This was [19]’81, so it was a couple years before I came down here…. This has all the things while I was at JSC, all the launches, except for the first five. One, two, three, four, five, then I started with this one. I think that was in April."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do after the STS-1 launch, during that time period and before you came to JSC, at Langley? What were your duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the Director of Structures. Structures at that time was made up of Structures, Materials, Acoustics, and Aeroelasticity Divisions. Four divisions. So it was about 400 people, and we had—I don’t know what the budget at that time was. But that’s what I was doing between [19]’80 and [19]’83."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having worked at Langley for almost twenty-five years, and you did mention the difference in the culture between Langley and JSC, maybe you can explain a little bit about those cultures and tell us what the differences were."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.225484065975472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t see the launch—well, I saw it on television. I didn’t see the launch of STS-1 at all. I was at Langley. This was [19]’81, so it was a couple years before I came down here…. This has all the things while I was at JSC, all the launches, except for the first five. One, two, three, four, five, then I started with this one. I think that was in April."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do after the STS-1 launch, during that time period and before you came to JSC, at Langley? What were your duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the Director of Structures. Structures at that time was made up of Structures, Materials, Acoustics, and Aeroelasticity Divisions. Four divisions. So it was about 400 people, and we had—I don’t know what the budget at that time was. But that’s what I was doing between [19]’80 and [19]’83."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having worked at Langley for almost twenty-five years, and you did mention the difference in the culture between Langley and JSC, maybe you can explain a little bit about those cultures and tell us what the differences were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the culture at Langley was one of, you did far-out work, not near-term work, and it was much more researching. JSC was much more near-term, operational, and so forth, except for Space Station. It was interesting. We started Space Station in [19]’84. It was supposed to be $8 billion. They stopped counting after twenty. It just went wild. While I think that that was good for JSC and a growing experience, I think it was not so good in other ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that one of the objectives of you going to JSC was to bring some of that culture. Do you feel that you accomplished that objective?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.806093406639413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the Director of Structures. Structures at that time was made up of Structures, Materials, Acoustics, and Aeroelasticity Divisions. Four divisions. So it was about 400 people, and we had—I don’t know what the budget at that time was. But that’s what I was doing between [19]’80 and [19]’83."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having worked at Langley for almost twenty-five years, and you did mention the difference in the culture between Langley and JSC, maybe you can explain a little bit about those cultures and tell us what the differences were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the culture at Langley was one of, you did far-out work, not near-term work, and it was much more researching. JSC was much more near-term, operational, and so forth, except for Space Station. It was interesting. We started Space Station in [19]’84. It was supposed to be $8 billion. They stopped counting after twenty. It just went wild. While I think that that was good for JSC and a growing experience, I think it was not so good in other ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that one of the objectives of you going to JSC was to bring some of that culture. Do you feel that you accomplished that objective?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we started Space Station, and while I was here, at least, we made progress. It wasn’t till after I left that they went after the work packages and Marshall got control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Moving into those management roles, as an engineer—and you worked as an engineer for several years before you started moving into that—how did you adopt your management style, and what is your management style?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.562326007377123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the culture at Langley was one of, you did far-out work, not near-term work, and it was much more researching. JSC was much more near-term, operational, and so forth, except for Space Station. It was interesting. We started Space Station in [19]’84. It was supposed to be $8 billion. They stopped counting after twenty. It just went wild. While I think that that was good for JSC and a growing experience, I think it was not so good in other ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that one of the objectives of you going to JSC was to bring some of that culture. Do you feel that you accomplished that objective?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we started Space Station, and while I was here, at least, we made progress. It wasn’t till after I left that they went after the work packages and Marshall got control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Moving into those management roles, as an engineer—and you worked as an engineer for several years before you started moving into that—how did you adopt your management style, and what is your management style?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What is my management style? Well, I guess I like a lot of participation, so I think I’m a participant manager, where I kind of gather people and let them do their own thing and, you know, guide them, set policy and so forth, but let them figure out how to do it. Actually, people don’t realize it, but when JSC started in [19]’62, the average age was in the twenties. Now it’s way up there. I won’t even guess, but it’s pretty far up there. So it’s aging, and I think that’s a shame, because the other centers aren’t like that, except maybe for Marshall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any issues coming from an engineering background into management?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 29.513695563752357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we started Space Station, and while I was here, at least, we made progress. It wasn’t till after I left that they went after the work packages and Marshall got control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Moving into those management roles, as an engineer—and you worked as an engineer for several years before you started moving into that—how did you adopt your management style, and what is your management style?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What is my management style? Well, I guess I like a lot of participation, so I think I’m a participant manager, where I kind of gather people and let them do their own thing and, you know, guide them, set policy and so forth, but let them figure out how to do it. Actually, people don’t realize it, but when JSC started in [19]’62, the average age was in the twenties. Now it’s way up there. I won’t even guess, but it’s pretty far up there. So it’s aging, and I think that’s a shame, because the other centers aren’t like that, except maybe for Marshall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any issues coming from an engineering background into management?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really, no. It was a natural progression. I went from section to branch head and on up. I think I learned as I went. I think, if you remember Management 102, it has four things: planning, execution, organization, and control as the four things. I think as you get higher in the organization, the planning gets more, the organization gets slightly more, the control is decreasing, and execution is decreasing [a lot]. So I think that’s kind of what you’ve got to know to step in from an engineering, where you do all of it yourself, into something higher, in management."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked under a lot of different directors, both at Headquarters over everything, and then at JSC and at Langley. Any specific memories about any of them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.585879536278552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct. In Burbank [California]. And that was the lowest-paying job that I had an offer from. I only had three out of five offers [in California]. [McDonnell] Douglas [Corporation] in Long Beach [California] offered me one, [Northrup Grumman Corporation, Skunk Works, and] Boeing [Company] in Seattle [Washington]. My wife didn’t want to go to Seattle because it rains too much, so we decided on Los Angeles. You’ve got to remember, Los Angeles, the cost of living is about three times higher than here, so we had sticker shock for the first six months. But we stayed there from [19]‘87 to [19]‘94, then we moved in 1994 to Palmdale [California], where Lockheed owned all of its own facilities, and we became a company.\\n\\n Then they bought GD [General Dynamics Corporation], then they merged with Martin [Marietta Corporation]. I stayed in the same position the whole time, but it was kind of traumatic. Then we went through a year—we were going to merge with Northrup Grumman [Corporation], but we didn’t, because the government wouldn’t let us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vice President of Engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a couple more questions, but before I get to those, I thought I would see if Rebecca or Jennifer have any questions at this time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just had a general question. You worked for NASA for some time, and you also worked as an EEO [Equal Employment Opportunities] officer. I was wondering if you could talk in generalities about how treatment of or perceptions of minorities and women changed at the Centers over time. If you could talk about that, the hiring."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.873199484753947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vice President of Engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a couple more questions, but before I get to those, I thought I would see if Rebecca or Jennifer have any questions at this time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just had a general question. You worked for NASA for some time, and you also worked as an EEO [Equal Employment Opportunities] officer. I was wondering if you could talk in generalities about how treatment of or perceptions of minorities and women changed at the Centers over time. If you could talk about that, the hiring."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I graduated from college in [19]’59, I went to an all-boys’ school, Georgia Tech. And now, today, Georgia Tech is 50 percent women and 50 percent men, roughly, and it’s not that much bigger, really. I guess it was 6,000 to 12,000, so it gained 6,000. The first two women graduated in my class in ’59, but they had transferred in as upper students. So I’ve seen, from ’59 till today, a great change in both government as well as industry, in females and minorities. I think that we’ve got to diversify in order to stay ahead of the technology. I think there’s not enough people if you just look at the men, so you have to go for minorities and women in order to continue to grow.\\n\\n Everywhere I went, first it was quotas, which I wasn’t against, but then they did away with the quotas and so forth, and it’s still going on in great strides, and, I think, rightfully so. So I think in the last fifty years, it’s really come a long way. You’ve heard the commercial, “You’ve come a long way, baby.” [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had another question. You mentioned the densification process, and you had mentioned that there were several ideas that were floated in the early seventies. When you came across this problem with the tiles, right before STS-1, were there any attempts made to change the tiles and use one of those other processes that engineers had designed, or at least conceptually designed on paper?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.583264039443002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really, the reason being you had to freeze in time the technology and choose it in order to build it, because it took so long. They thought they were building a robust system. When they didn’t and had to densify, go back and densify, that was the white side of the tile, where you glue it on with RTV, that took about a year. So while there was a number of stronger, if you will, lighter—in fact, that was the reason why they picked ceramics over metallics, weightwise, they were about equal, but they thought that the ceramics as a technology was further ahead. That’s really why they chose it. I think that was a mistake, in looking back at it, but I probably voted for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us how the process of densification came about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t really know—well, I forget how many people were on the committee now, but they were working with Rockwell folks at Downey [California], for six weeks, so it was a combination of the Downey folks coming up with this densification as well as the team. So, you know, it was hard to decide whose the actual idea was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Those are all the questions that I had. Thank you.\n\nI just had one. It goes back to the time when you were at JSC and Gerry Griffin announced his resignation. Between that time and the time that Aaron Cohen came on board, you were in a very volatile position because you were in the midst of these Center Directors, but yet had lots of responsibility due to the events that were occurring during that time period. Could you just share with us about those times, about how you were able to work those transitions for these Directors so that they were able to take on those jobs and maybe the difficulties of you trying to do your duties as well as helping them come on board?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Helping them come on—you mean like—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like Mr. Moore coming in."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.981404488270002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t really know—well, I forget how many people were on the committee now, but they were working with Rockwell folks at Downey [California], for six weeks, so it was a combination of the Downey folks coming up with this densification as well as the team. So, you know, it was hard to decide whose the actual idea was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Those are all the questions that I had. Thank you.\n\nI just had one. It goes back to the time when you were at JSC and Gerry Griffin announced his resignation. Between that time and the time that Aaron Cohen came on board, you were in a very volatile position because you were in the midst of these Center Directors, but yet had lots of responsibility due to the events that were occurring during that time period. Could you just share with us about those times, about how you were able to work those transitions for these Directors so that they were able to take on those jobs and maybe the difficulties of you trying to do your duties as well as helping them come on board?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Helping them come on—you mean like—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like Mr. Moore coming in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mr. Moore coming down?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then Aaron Cohen moving into that position as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:182", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.979338320300002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Helping them come on—you mean like—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like Mr. Moore coming in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mr. Moore coming down?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then Aaron Cohen moving into that position as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as far as Aaron Cohen moving into position, he moved in to Moore’s position. Jesse Moore left the agency and went with someplace in Colorado. Ball Industries. He was kind of—I felt sorry for him, because he was in Headquarters and came down here as JSC Center Director, so we threw a party for him and tried to welcome him, and so forth. He was under a great deal of strain, no doubt about it, but we did everything we could to make him comfortable.\\n\\n I think they made a big mistake. They brought him down here, he bought a house, and then they fired him. So I think the agency made a big mistake. They should never have transferred him down here and let him buy a house and everything before letting him go. Now, those were the times—I can’t remember. He came down in the summer sometime and he was only here for like two months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time, basically the weight of the Center operations was on your shoulders to continue?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:184", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.865931467000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mr. Moore coming down?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then Aaron Cohen moving into that position as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as far as Aaron Cohen moving into position, he moved in to Moore’s position. Jesse Moore left the agency and went with someplace in Colorado. Ball Industries. He was kind of—I felt sorry for him, because he was in Headquarters and came down here as JSC Center Director, so we threw a party for him and tried to welcome him, and so forth. He was under a great deal of strain, no doubt about it, but we did everything we could to make him comfortable.\\n\\n I think they made a big mistake. They brought him down here, he bought a house, and then they fired him. So I think the agency made a big mistake. They should never have transferred him down here and let him buy a house and everything before letting him go. Now, those were the times—I can’t remember. He came down in the summer sometime and he was only here for like two months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time, basically the weight of the Center operations was on your shoulders to continue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, up until that time, I’d been Acting Director, and so I tried to help him in all his daily duties. Aaron Cohen kind of came up as a surprise to a lot of people. He was head of engineering at the time; he was like a Vice President. And while he had been very active in Shuttle. He had not been active in Space Station, so I don’t know if that had anything to do with it or not. But he came on all of a sudden, in October of that year, [19]’86. So I didn’t help him at all. He’d been right down the hall, so he knew the ropes, knew what was expected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised to hear that Gerry Griffin was leaving, or he had talked to you about that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:188", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.241890700000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, up until that time, I’d been Acting Director, and so I tried to help him in all his daily duties. Aaron Cohen kind of came up as a surprise to a lot of people. He was head of engineering at the time; he was like a Vice President. And while he had been very active in Shuttle. He had not been active in Space Station, so I don’t know if that had anything to do with it or not. But he came on all of a sudden, in October of that year, [19]’86. So I didn’t help him at all. He’d been right down the hall, so he knew the ropes, knew what was expected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised to hear that Gerry Griffin was leaving, or he had talked to you about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was just as surprised as everybody else. He actually went with the Chamber of Commerce of Houston when he left. I thought it was 1 January instead of 14 January, but I could be wrong. It seemed like it was a long time, but he said when he left that they made him an offer he couldn’t refuse, so he was going to grab it. But it came as a surprise to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was looking back over my notes and I had it under “Headquarters.” When you worked at Headquarters, you took part in testimony before Congress on the Research and Technology appropriation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memories of that you’d like to share?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:190", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.824323000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was just as surprised as everybody else. He actually went with the Chamber of Commerce of Houston when he left. I thought it was 1 January instead of 14 January, but I could be wrong. It seemed like it was a long time, but he said when he left that they made him an offer he couldn’t refuse, so he was going to grab it. But it came as a surprise to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was looking back over my notes and I had it under “Headquarters.” When you worked at Headquarters, you took part in testimony before Congress on the Research and Technology appropriation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memories of that you’d like to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can remember one session. I didn’t testify, but we went as backup to the head of Code R, whoever that was at the time. [Jim] Kramer, I guess. And there was only one committee member there, and he was on a platform, in the front, and he had his feet on the table, had a big cigar in his mouth, and he was reading a newspaper throughout the whole testimony. So I remember that. I can remember his name, too. He’s still there. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that position, also did you have anything to do with the turbine-engine hot-section technology?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:192", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.47147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memories of that you’d like to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can remember one session. I didn’t testify, but we went as backup to the head of Code R, whoever that was at the time. [Jim] Kramer, I guess. And there was only one committee member there, and he was on a platform, in the front, and he had his feet on the table, had a big cigar in his mouth, and he was reading a newspaper throughout the whole testimony. So I remember that. I can remember his name, too. He’s still there. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that position, also did you have anything to do with the turbine-engine hot-section technology?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain that to us?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:194", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.9683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can remember one session. I didn’t testify, but we went as backup to the head of Code R, whoever that was at the time. [Jim] Kramer, I guess. And there was only one committee member there, and he was on a platform, in the front, and he had his feet on the table, had a big cigar in his mouth, and he was reading a newspaper throughout the whole testimony. So I remember that. I can remember his name, too. He’s still there. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that position, also did you have anything to do with the turbine-engine hot-section technology?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain that to us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was started at Glenn, and that was a big, new initiative that we sold to the Congress and a hot-section turbine business because we were trying to get more money for Glenn and this was a new initiative. We had one at every Center, but that was one that we got that year, so we set up and planned it and so forth. Yes, I remember that very dramatically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career with NASA, which was quite a long career, what do you think was your most challenging achievement, or the most challenging aspect of your career?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:196", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1870000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain that to us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was started at Glenn, and that was a big, new initiative that we sold to the Congress and a hot-section turbine business because we were trying to get more money for Glenn and this was a new initiative. We had one at every Center, but that was one that we got that year, so we set up and planned it and so forth. Yes, I remember that very dramatically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career with NASA, which was quite a long career, what do you think was your most challenging achievement, or the most challenging aspect of your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a toughie. I thought you were going to ask that, and I have no idea, because\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n was tough, no doubt about it. I was devastated. My morale was low, my whole feeling was down in the dumps. It took a lot to get up to go to work every day, so that, obviously, was a period of time when I remember.\\n\\n But as far as having fun, I had fun at Rockwell for those six weeks that we did the Shuttle tile. I had fun at the technical evaluation down here at Houston for six weeks. I had fun early in my career. So I don’t know which single one of those three would be the one, but I remember all of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were down, as the rest of the Center was down, after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , did you see an end in sight or did you see the possibilities?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:202", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, after that vote came, where we were supposed to get back into flight in six months, where we tried to regain control, in fact, put a bellyband around the tank and, like I say, Lew Allen and I were the only two that voted for it, so that means there was five other Centers that voted against us, because they wanted to fix it. They wanted to wait the period of time it took to fix it, and we figured that would be the death. It didn’t turn out to be the death, but it sure took a long time.\\n\\n Right then and there I decided to leave, after that vote, and that vote was like two months after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , so that was before Jesse Moore came down and before Aaron Cohen became—I decided to leave the agency, because I had foreseen that it was going to be a long period of time before they got back to flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you feel is your most significant accomplishment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most significant accomplishment? In NASA or—oh, in NASA. Starting Space Station I think is probably my most significant one. Even though it’s gone out of control, I think it was started right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, of course, it began with the goal of being in orbit by [19]’91 or [19]’92."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel the way it was started, when you began it, that if you had stayed on that track, that they would have achieved that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:204", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most significant accomplishment? In NASA or—oh, in NASA. Starting Space Station I think is probably my most significant one. Even though it’s gone out of control, I think it was started right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, of course, it began with the goal of being in orbit by [19]’91 or [19]’92."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel the way it was started, when you began it, that if you had stayed on that track, that they would have achieved that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we would have achieved about [19]‘94, because we had originally set it challenging on purpose, and really, we had a schedule that said ’94–’95 [dollars permitting]. And it’s still only half built. Here it is 2003. It’s ridiculous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that we haven’t talked about, that you would like to bring up, or anything that you can think of?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00227:206", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel the way it was started, when you began it, that if you had stayed on that track, that they would have achieved that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we would have achieved about [19]‘94, because we had originally set it challenging on purpose, and really, we had a schedule that said ’94–’95 [dollars permitting]. And it’s still only half built. Here it is 2003. It’s ridiculous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that we haven’t talked about, that you would like to bring up, or anything that you can think of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I can think of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We’d like to thank you for participating with us today."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.451638297956976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hospital, small hospital in a hospital at that time, the Accrediting Association, Joint Commission on Accreditation for Hospitals. So that would have been in 19, I started it in 1978, required a hospital to have either a librarian on staff for research or a contract with a librarian in this small hospital in Port Huron was part of a large one of the first large systems of Mercy health system. And so they hired me a few hours a week and then more hours a week. And I eventually took over continuing medical education for the physicians, licensure, you know, making the programs, not teaching, but, you know, doing that coordination and sort of built a really, I always thought a designer career because I could do really neat stuff there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And and were you using computers in the early on science library in ‘78 when you joined?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the National Library Medicine to train for existing deadline. At that time, only librarians could because we dialed directly into the National Library of Medicine computers for Medline, which is the index medicus online. And that was in ‘82 or ‘83. And yes, I was then online with a Texas instrument 700, you know, paper all over the place, not a not a computer terminal. So yes, I was doing research for physicians in the community hospital. So not, not, not a teaching hospital. We were a community hospital. So they would come to me with, you know, I've got a patient upstairs that is diabetic and is pregnant and what do I need to you know, what articles support the treatment. I'm looking for a new procedure or that's what that's what I did, along with having books and journals on the shelf and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doing research?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Research for the nurses, helping them with their education administration, with making decisions. So, yeah, it was a great, a great career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And you worked there in the same in the same hospital?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.501820331063307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the National Library Medicine to train for existing deadline. At that time, only librarians could because we dialed directly into the National Library of Medicine computers for Medline, which is the index medicus online. And that was in ‘82 or ‘83. And yes, I was then online with a Texas instrument 700, you know, paper all over the place, not a not a computer terminal. So yes, I was doing research for physicians in the community hospital. So not, not, not a teaching hospital. We were a community hospital. So they would come to me with, you know, I've got a patient upstairs that is diabetic and is pregnant and what do I need to you know, what articles support the treatment. I'm looking for a new procedure or that's what that's what I did, along with having books and journals on the shelf and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doing research?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Research for the nurses, helping them with their education administration, with making decisions. So, yeah, it was a great, a great career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And you worked there in the same in the same hospital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For twenty years. And then, you know, health care changed a lot. And during those twenty years and the rules and regulations for hospitals having librarians were removed. So things kind of changed. And I left the hospital and opened my own consulting business and I had"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when was that? What what year did you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.668689256737007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Research for the nurses, helping them with their education administration, with making decisions. So, yeah, it was a great, a great career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And you worked there in the same in the same hospital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For twenty years. And then, you know, health care changed a lot. And during those twenty years and the rules and regulations for hospitals having librarians were removed. So things kind of changed. And I left the hospital and opened my own consulting business and I had"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when was that? What what year did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1998. And my clients my main clients were the medical the professional medical society for the county, and I organized three hospitals to go together and fund the continuing medical education outside of the hospital, which was good because the physicians needed to choose their own educational needs, not have it influenced by the hospital administration and and then the library. I had a contract with the library to teach computer skills to adults, and that's the one that I ended up doing the most, and especially after I came back from my Peace Corps sometime in Azerbaijan, then that's the only contract that I maintain. The other ones I passed on to somebody else when I went into Peace Corps. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that sounds like a great preparation of skills to take to a country that was just ready to go with them. So let's let's do that. Let's talk now about you. You you got us through your swearing in, if you will. Then what about leaving and saying goodbye to your family and."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.400122437224972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's that's a hard time. I'm sure everybody has. You know, it's a busy time. I didn't have to divest myself of my home. I had I owned a home because my son and his wife and two grand boys had moved in with me a few years before that decision. And so they took over the house and the costs of the house and and, you know, so I that was all taken care of. So I know a lot of people have trouble. You know, I have a challenge with that. What to do with their house and what to do with their things. Seemed like everybody in their brother wanted to, you know, have a going away dinner. I eat a lot of food, but it still was a lot of putting things together. And I wasn't sad to go. I was very excited. I'll have to admit, the hardest part of leaving was telling my wonderful four year old Labrador retriever goodbye because he I knew he wouldn't understand that I wasn't coming home for twenty seven months, you know. But other than that, it was not. It was of course, a whirlwind of things to do. But I didn't have to close down my life quite as much as maybe other people that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was your Labrador retriever still alive when you came home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was and he was wild crazy. I mean, he would actually when I talked to the family from Azerbaijan, my son would call home every couple of months and we'd have a little chat. My dog Jack would bark when he heard me. So I don't know whether it was just because everybody was excited, because we had made this connection on the phone or not. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that was probably the hardest thing. How do you tell your dog you're leaving for two years?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is he still alive?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 26.00013604136108, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was and he was wild crazy. I mean, he would actually when I talked to the family from Azerbaijan, my son would call home every couple of months and we'd have a little chat. My dog Jack would bark when he heard me. So I don't know whether it was just because everybody was excited, because we had made this connection on the phone or not. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that was probably the hardest thing. How do you tell your dog you're leaving for two years?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is he still alive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all right. So you you were getting ready to leave lots of dinners and then where did you leave from?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 22.22237337929009, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that was probably the hardest thing. How do you tell your dog you're leaving for two years?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is he still alive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all right. So you you were getting ready to leave lots of dinners and then where did you leave from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We our group met in Philadelphia. OK, for the I don't know what day and a half it was, of course stressful packing all those things into your big backpacks and so forth that we needed to go. And it was you know, we were told about conservative dress. And I think the Azerbaijani women thought we were all missionaries or something because we all had dark skirts. So went down to our ankles. And they certainly didn't dress like that in Azerbaijan. They were pretty modern dressing, you know, and especially the younger girls. And the the Days Inn in Philadelphia were great. I had a roommate that I connected up with. And we you know, we she was a young woman and we really enjoyed each other during that time and then ended up rooming together when we got to Baku for our first three days in Azerbaijan, too. So I always kind of had a special spot in my heart for her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were three, three days in Philadelphia?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.252912728792985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we probably were. I had to where I flew out of an in Michigan. You know, they ask you where is your home airport? And I prefer the smaller airport in Flint, Michigan, which is in the center of Michigan. So they flew me out of there, which wasn't very convenient because I had to go to Atlanta and then back up to Philadelphia. So I left Flint like at four a.m. or five a.m. and didn't get to Philadelphia to five p.m. And they didn't have any coffee in the conference room. I was like, I'm an adult. I need some coffee now. Yeah, I've been on a plane for the last twelve hours, so we laughed about that because that was so. Yeah. So we had roundtable discussions and the usual get to know each other, you know, all those kinds of games that you play when you're in a group that you know. And then we also I still have the envelope that they gave me at the end. Of my service, of I wrote something about myself personally and what I had hoped to accomplish and Peace Corps. Now don't ask me what I wrote because I don't remember exactly, but it was, you know, something very lofty and, you know, doing things, important things and stuff. But that was fun to get at the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you mean you wrote this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Inevitably, they gave it all. They gave us all an envelope. We put our name on the outside and we wrote just to ourselves, like, this is what we know. This is what I want to accomplish at the Philadelphia training and the one I cost. When I closed my service, they gave that back to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was kind of neat. Yeah. For me it was anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you spent a few days in Philadelphia and then they. And how many were you there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.169903031992206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Inevitably, they gave it all. They gave us all an envelope. We put our name on the outside and we wrote just to ourselves, like, this is what we know. This is what I want to accomplish at the Philadelphia training and the one I cost. When I closed my service, they gave that back to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was kind of neat. Yeah. For me it was anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you spent a few days in Philadelphia and then they. And how many were you there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think our group started off at 63 and about I'll say fourteen or fifteen of us were senior volunteers 50 years or older. There were a couple to married couples that were in their probably 30s and then the rest were the, you know, recent grads or 20 something graduate student age. So so our senior group was really good. And when we got to Baku, they kind of placed us in our training clusters. There was a group of us that were all seniors together, not all the seniors that were in our cluster because we because of our sectors. But we always felt lucky that we were together in a training session together. We weren't competing against the younger people with the language challenges of Azerbaijani, which is a pretty tough language, and and supported each other and understood each other's needs and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said you were 50/50?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.299892257769116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was kind of neat. Yeah. For me it was anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you spent a few days in Philadelphia and then they. And how many were you there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think our group started off at 63 and about I'll say fourteen or fifteen of us were senior volunteers 50 years or older. There were a couple to married couples that were in their probably 30s and then the rest were the, you know, recent grads or 20 something graduate student age. So so our senior group was really good. And when we got to Baku, they kind of placed us in our training clusters. There was a group of us that were all seniors together, not all the seniors that were in our cluster because we because of our sectors. But we always felt lucky that we were together in a training session together. We weren't competing against the younger people with the language challenges of Azerbaijani, which is a pretty tough language, and and supported each other and understood each other's needs and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said you were 50/50?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think there were 14 or 14 or 15. A couple of the volunteers left during that time, but. Yeah, so it was a good group and we have stayed. I'm here today with one of my Azerbaijani friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we're doing our interview during the Peace Corps Connect conference in Shawnee on Delaware, in Pennsylvania in 2018. So for that reason, you're with one of your friends. That's wonderful that you both can attend this and continue to be stimulated and motivated about Peace Corps values. So there were a good portion then of you almost. What is that? Almost a quarter of you were senior."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.555435841965682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think our group started off at 63 and about I'll say fourteen or fifteen of us were senior volunteers 50 years or older. There were a couple to married couples that were in their probably 30s and then the rest were the, you know, recent grads or 20 something graduate student age. So so our senior group was really good. And when we got to Baku, they kind of placed us in our training clusters. There was a group of us that were all seniors together, not all the seniors that were in our cluster because we because of our sectors. But we always felt lucky that we were together in a training session together. We weren't competing against the younger people with the language challenges of Azerbaijani, which is a pretty tough language, and and supported each other and understood each other's needs and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said you were 50/50?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think there were 14 or 14 or 15. A couple of the volunteers left during that time, but. Yeah, so it was a good group and we have stayed. I'm here today with one of my Azerbaijani friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we're doing our interview during the Peace Corps Connect conference in Shawnee on Delaware, in Pennsylvania in 2018. So for that reason, you're with one of your friends. That's wonderful that you both can attend this and continue to be stimulated and motivated about Peace Corps values. So there were a good portion then of you almost. What is that? Almost a quarter of you were senior."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Probably not quite but we were and I was is a good place for senior volunteers because of the it's a post-Soviet country, the respect of education and the respect of the experience and age. We we had the benefit of that, of that. I think they they understood that. We knew what we were about, you know. Right. And I know organizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were in you said economic community"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.839373157739647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think there were 14 or 14 or 15. A couple of the volunteers left during that time, but. Yeah, so it was a good group and we have stayed. I'm here today with one of my Azerbaijani friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we're doing our interview during the Peace Corps Connect conference in Shawnee on Delaware, in Pennsylvania in 2018. So for that reason, you're with one of your friends. That's wonderful that you both can attend this and continue to be stimulated and motivated about Peace Corps values. So there were a good portion then of you almost. What is that? Almost a quarter of you were senior."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Probably not quite but we were and I was is a good place for senior volunteers because of the it's a post-Soviet country, the respect of education and the respect of the experience and age. We we had the benefit of that, of that. I think they they understood that. We knew what we were about, you know. Right. And I know organizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were in you said economic community"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Community economic development. So there were, so we did our our 11 weeks of training. Well, we were three, three days in Baku and then they piled us in marshrutka and dropped us off at our host families for 11 weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, and what were those, was the training in Baku?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.82152573082183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Probably not quite but we were and I was is a good place for senior volunteers because of the it's a post-Soviet country, the respect of education and the respect of the experience and age. We we had the benefit of that, of that. I think they they understood that. We knew what we were about, you know. Right. And I know organizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were in you said economic community"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Community economic development. So there were, so we did our our 11 weeks of training. Well, we were three, three days in Baku and then they piled us in marshrutka and dropped us off at our host families for 11 weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, and what were those, was the training in Baku?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just three days of kind of welcoming training, almost a continuation of what we did in Philadelphia group stuff, some of the some of the immediate culture and cultural things that we needed to pay attention to how to use a squat toilet and those kinds of things that they knew we were all going to face once we got to the host family. So it was in a hotel that we were at Baku and then they split us up and sent us off to our villages or the or the not our site villages, but our training, training, training locations. And I was placed in a we would call it in the United States, a suburb of Sumqayit, which is about the third largest city in Azerbaijan in a compound with a family that had had a Peace Corps volunteer previously. So it wasn't their first one, not very much English in the in the county, in the family, and lived with them for 11 weeks until I was placed in my permanent assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And speaking of of language, what was the language that you were learning?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.801695256468697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Community economic development. So there were, so we did our our 11 weeks of training. Well, we were three, three days in Baku and then they piled us in marshrutka and dropped us off at our host families for 11 weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, and what were those, was the training in Baku?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just three days of kind of welcoming training, almost a continuation of what we did in Philadelphia group stuff, some of the some of the immediate culture and cultural things that we needed to pay attention to how to use a squat toilet and those kinds of things that they knew we were all going to face once we got to the host family. So it was in a hotel that we were at Baku and then they split us up and sent us off to our villages or the or the not our site villages, but our training, training, training locations. And I was placed in a we would call it in the United States, a suburb of Sumqayit, which is about the third largest city in Azerbaijan in a compound with a family that had had a Peace Corps volunteer previously. So it wasn't their first one, not very much English in the in the county, in the family, and lived with them for 11 weeks until I was placed in my permanent assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And speaking of of language, what was the language that you were learning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Azerbaijani. Azerbaijani is a Turkish based language, very grammatical. And I will admit that I struggled very much with it and once I was placed in my home, in my, in my sight, it became very evident that the people I was working with, which were young people and in vocational training, they wanted to speak English. They didn't want me to struggle too much with the language. So I didn't do really great with it, but I got by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you learned enough."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.001883618298553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just three days of kind of welcoming training, almost a continuation of what we did in Philadelphia group stuff, some of the some of the immediate culture and cultural things that we needed to pay attention to how to use a squat toilet and those kinds of things that they knew we were all going to face once we got to the host family. So it was in a hotel that we were at Baku and then they split us up and sent us off to our villages or the or the not our site villages, but our training, training, training locations. And I was placed in a we would call it in the United States, a suburb of Sumqayit, which is about the third largest city in Azerbaijan in a compound with a family that had had a Peace Corps volunteer previously. So it wasn't their first one, not very much English in the in the county, in the family, and lived with them for 11 weeks until I was placed in my permanent assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And speaking of of language, what was the language that you were learning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Azerbaijani. Azerbaijani is a Turkish based language, very grammatical. And I will admit that I struggled very much with it and once I was placed in my home, in my, in my sight, it became very evident that the people I was working with, which were young people and in vocational training, they wanted to speak English. They didn't want me to struggle too much with the language. So I didn't do really great with it, but I got by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you learned enough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, much enough to certainly get around. Yes. But not to carry on a business conversation or anything. I was not in some of our group did. They were very, very good at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, not me, so tell us what you what kinds of things you did during training both the activities and the content of how you look, what you return?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.19645314619816, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't. And, you know, that was just the way it was. And also, you know, some of the cultural things, we didn't push against them. We tried to integrate. I wanted to be not there and be in an American compound. I wanted to be a part of the Azerbaijani culture. So. Retarded that part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right. Did you enjoy training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, I struggled so much with the language, the language class, and there were a variety of reasons. That was probably, you know, the hardest part with the rest of it. Yeah, I did, yeah. I mean, I was glad when it was over and we all got our assignments and, you know, that exciting part of knowing where you're going to go in the country and and so forth. And in the end, the kind of the cultural change that you have in front of your eyes when you first get to a country started to fall away and everything wasn't so, so strange or so. Oh, my goodness, look at that. Kind of got better, better acclimated and was ready, ready for service one when we swore in in December of 2008."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't actually swear in"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until December 2008."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Until you finished. And did most of the trainees survive through the whole 11 weeks?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.440503495775733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, I struggled so much with the language, the language class, and there were a variety of reasons. That was probably, you know, the hardest part with the rest of it. Yeah, I did, yeah. I mean, I was glad when it was over and we all got our assignments and, you know, that exciting part of knowing where you're going to go in the country and and so forth. And in the end, the kind of the cultural change that you have in front of your eyes when you first get to a country started to fall away and everything wasn't so, so strange or so. Oh, my goodness, look at that. Kind of got better, better acclimated and was ready, ready for service one when we swore in in December of 2008."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't actually swear in"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until December 2008."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Until you finished. And did most of the trainees survive through the whole 11 weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our group did. We were unusual that way. We were told me as far as the expected percentage of people dropping out. I think during training we had I don't know whether we had anyone drop out during training, but we did have one senior volunteer left for health reasons. And we had maybe a couple of the young people, but we only had four or five of the whole group through the whole two and a half years actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Leave. Leave early. Leave early. Right. Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.711670550861925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until December 2008."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Until you finished. And did most of the trainees survive through the whole 11 weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our group did. We were unusual that way. We were told me as far as the expected percentage of people dropping out. I think during training we had I don't know whether we had anyone drop out during training, but we did have one senior volunteer left for health reasons. And we had maybe a couple of the young people, but we only had four or five of the whole group through the whole two and a half years actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Leave. Leave early. Leave early. Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah. And some of the volunteers didn't go home during the whole time. I, I pushed the button at one point and went home at Christmas after, after the first year. And after I did that I wished I hadn't, it kind of interrupted my rhythm of my volunteer activities. I was doing the projects I was working on and I if I did it again, I wouldn't I wouldn't go home in the middle of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I did. Did you do any other. Well, we'll get back to that. And again, let's talk about what happened after training. Where were you assigned?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 21.248975988718428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah. And some of the volunteers didn't go home during the whole time. I, I pushed the button at one point and went home at Christmas after, after the first year. And after I did that I wished I hadn't, it kind of interrupted my rhythm of my volunteer activities. I was doing the projects I was working on and I if I did it again, I wouldn't I wouldn't go home in the middle of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I did. Did you do any other. Well, we'll get back to that. And again, let's talk about what happened after training. Where were you assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was assigned. So we our training was in Sumqayit, which is on the Caspian Sea, not too far from Baku, the capital, which is a total another world of cosmopolitan society and beautiful homes and so forth. Sumqayit was more of an industrial town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "North of"}, {"role": "user", "content": "North. Yeah. Going up the Caspian north chemical plants that were defunct from the Soviet time. Now, I think being used again, a reputation of, you know, of some of the conflict with the Armenians during the, um, the Armenian Azerbaijani border conflict that"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which continues, doesn’t it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.276639987464918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was assigned. So we our training was in Sumqayit, which is on the Caspian Sea, not too far from Baku, the capital, which is a total another world of cosmopolitan society and beautiful homes and so forth. Sumqayit was more of an industrial town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "North of"}, {"role": "user", "content": "North. Yeah. Going up the Caspian north chemical plants that were defunct from the Soviet time. Now, I think being used again, a reputation of, you know, of some of the conflict with the Armenians during the, um, the Armenian Azerbaijani border conflict that"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which continues, doesn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which continues today. They still are shooting at each other over the border and still still in and just disagreement about the border. So from there, my assignment was in Ganja, which is in the west for the west end of the country, almost a Georgia border, maybe about an hour from the Georgia border. And Ganja is the second largest city in Azerbaijan. And it is a university town, an old old city. And there were five of us that were assigned there because it's a city of, um, I'll say three hundred fifty thousand people. Largest city I had ever lived in. I was placed with a woman that was a widow from the Azerbaijani Armenian conflict. And but her daughter was one of our our language cultural trainers. So she had English. And I lived in one of the nine story Soviet cement block apartment complexes that had several in our in our area that were so we probably had eighteen hundred families living in this big complex of big apartments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to tell us a little bit about that apartment? What marked it in your mind as being Soviet era?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.213043383401782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, sure. Are you and you would come home and you might get under your your huge Peace Corps sleeping bag that they gave us on in the bed and just sort of stay under there for the rest of the evening because it was cold but not, you know, not terrible, you know. Yeah, yeah. At first it was probably terrible, but then it became just your life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Right, you coped. So what about your work? What did you do on a daily basis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I was assigned to a NGO vocational training center, so I had nothing to do with the government school system. And I would compare it to our United States tech centers that a lot of the schools have. It was targeted at 14 year olds through. Well, it could have gone past the adult, but usually once the Azerbaijanis were married, they weren't doing the school thing. So I'd say twenty six year olds, when we had twenty six year olds, the school taught computer skills, English, German, sewing, knitting, cosmetology, welding, accounting. What else? Well, cosmetology was a big one. So the students came, they paid a tuition and about 25 percent of our students were IDP's from that Armenian and internally displaced people from the Armenian Azerbaijani conflict. Because Ganja was one place where a lot of the people that were expelled from Armenia that were Azerbaijanis came either home to their families area and Ganja. And we were close, close enough to the border sort of that we had a huge IDP population there. Yet even though that was 20 years or more after the original conflict when they were when they separated and Azerbaijan's and Armenians to go back to their country, too. So it was a lot of IDP's I. I think I've heard that there were probably 100,000 IDPs living yet in Azerbaijan as IDPs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they would have been had previously lived close"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the Azerbaijan and Armenia border. They were in Armenia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, but then but then because of the struggle, they were displaced."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.435856028891084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the Azerbaijan and Armenia border. They were in Armenia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, but then but then because of the struggle, they were displaced."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a section that's a peace part of the land Azerbaijanis land that Azerbaijani say belongs to them and it's inside their their country. It's Nagorno-Karabakh and the Armenians occupied it. That's what the Azerbaijanis would say. And so the Azerbaijanis that were living on that land were expelled from the Armenians that were in other parts because they had lived together up until that point and were expelled back to their country. So the Armenian country has the same kind of IDP problem, I think, too. And the IDPs in Azerbaijan really felt, feel and still feel that they won't get to go back to their land. You know, they had and their status remains kind of in flux because they have that belief and they also have some benefits as as an IDP, you know, they have some help with their housing and their, you know, their gas bills and some of their education. Is that so we our organization, the NGO that I volunteered at the IDPs, didn't have to pay tuition to go there so they could learn those technical skills for free. The other students that came and they came a lot for the English, all the other students would come a lot for the English classes. So we're taught there. And they were taught by Azerbaijani young, young Azerbaijani teachers that were trying to learn English from old Russian textbooks. And so that was one of the things that we did. We tried to upgrade their, you know, their skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, so that this was a private school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then it was started by the Seventh Day Adventists at the time that the that the country was formed and they had finished their mission mission, two of that kind. They were still in the country doing some ecological things and planting trees and stuff. But pretty much the school was turned over to a local NGO before I got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the Seventh Day Adventist work went early after that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.291180282581582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then it was started by the Seventh Day Adventists at the time that the that the country was formed and they had finished their mission mission, two of that kind. They were still in the country doing some ecological things and planting trees and stuff. But pretty much the school was turned over to a local NGO before I got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the Seventh Day Adventist work went early after that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Early there, they were the first in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Breakup of the Soviet Union. They were right. And they established first and there some of these be professional training schools. OK, so how many Peace Corps volunteers were assigned to that school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only one?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 21.43464475842398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Early there, they were the first in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Breakup of the Soviet Union. They were right. And they established first and there some of these be professional training schools. OK, so how many Peace Corps volunteers were assigned to that school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One, and there had been one or maybe two before me and there was one that followed me. But then the school was dissolved for a variety of reasons. On the NGO situation I was watching kind of changed politically. The government was not as receptive to foreign funded NGOs and a lot of reporting things in the school, kind of, I think, and I think the Seventh Day Avenue sold the buildings, so I just went away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. So you see how many students were there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.65041555821954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not necessarily that we were a big city and there were at most times there were five to seven volunteers at one time. And Ganja the city was huge. So you wouldn't see each other sometimes. But there was always something going on that we could join into or somebody would say, oh, there we worked. I worked in a helping a school that was with deaf kids. It wasn't something I saw it out. Somebody, you know, would say, oh, there's, you know, somebody there that needs help with their computers or they they need help with writing a grant or whatever. So, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Get busy. You helped. Yeah. And so the interesting question here, how did you communicate with other volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had we were provided cell phones as part of our our our tools that we had. So one of the first things we did when we got to the machine was to buy cell phones and but we had to pay for our own SIM, our own contours. He recalled our time, our own minutes by the cell phones was a real trick because you couldn't buy a cell phone unless you had an Azerbaijani ID card. And of course, we didn't have one. So our LCFs our language and cultural trainers had to go with us by the phones and so forth. So that was, you know, just some of their requirements. So we were able to text back and forth with each other, Internet was available when we first got there, but it was not, you know, was dial up Internet if you had it. My school had just one dial up line when we got there. But after a bit, they were able to get better Internet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Better, meaning better signals. But it was still landline?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still a landline, like it was still landline, but faster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wi-Fi wasn't there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.500461731355042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had we were provided cell phones as part of our our our tools that we had. So one of the first things we did when we got to the machine was to buy cell phones and but we had to pay for our own SIM, our own contours. He recalled our time, our own minutes by the cell phones was a real trick because you couldn't buy a cell phone unless you had an Azerbaijani ID card. And of course, we didn't have one. So our LCFs our language and cultural trainers had to go with us by the phones and so forth. So that was, you know, just some of their requirements. So we were able to text back and forth with each other, Internet was available when we first got there, but it was not, you know, was dial up Internet if you had it. My school had just one dial up line when we got there. But after a bit, they were able to get better Internet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Better, meaning better signals. But it was still landline?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still a landline, like it was still landline, but faster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wi-Fi wasn't there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I don't think our phones even would have done Wi- Fi. They were flip phones. You know, but it improved because they had they eventually you would see the the the cowboys with the sheep on their cell phones. So, you know, so it was there, you know, they hit them, right. Yeah. Eventually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right. They had the micro wave connection."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.55606859039449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still a landline, like it was still landline, but faster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wi-Fi wasn't there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I don't think our phones even would have done Wi- Fi. They were flip phones. You know, but it improved because they had they eventually you would see the the the cowboys with the sheep on their cell phones. So, you know, so it was there, you know, they hit them, right. Yeah. Eventually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right. They had the micro wave connection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So volunteer to volunteer we texted a lot. You know, if we were together and we were leaving some place, we weren't supposed to be out after dark. So if one person was going one way to go to their house on the other and I was going another way, we always check back with each other again. That was the senior volunteer following the rules. You know, did you get home OK back home? Especially the I felt I had a house mom at home, so I had somebody at my house. But yeah, those volunteers that were living in an apartment building by themselves, you know, I kind of always thought, you know, there's nobody to check on you. So, yeah. But safety wise, I felt very, very safe. And I was I was I'm sure there was crime there, but"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't really feel like were there any any safety or security issues that came up for any of the volunteers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.730973376481002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was cool. And we had all had to have voted absentee ballot because we were, you know, already in Azerbaijan in September of the fall. So that was a pretty cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That was right after you did. So you left in September. The campaign was going on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we get you know, and all we got was Russian and Georgian television. I mean, we didn't you really didn't know what was going on, you know, unless, you know, unless you got it from home or worked really hard at it. Yeah. Yeah. So it was you know, we were kind of or at least for me it was that was a void time for me as far as news and what was happening. I mean, I knew he won, but but the inauguration was. Yeah, it was pretty cool. All those kids, all of us, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how did you get news of America then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, eventually for me, eventually the school got an. Access to Internet and enough minutes to get on it that I would I would check, but not like we do here now with, you know, looking every moment of the time of what's going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So too expensive to do it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.36774819609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we get you know, and all we got was Russian and Georgian television. I mean, we didn't you really didn't know what was going on, you know, unless, you know, unless you got it from home or worked really hard at it. Yeah. Yeah. So it was you know, we were kind of or at least for me it was that was a void time for me as far as news and what was happening. I mean, I knew he won, but but the inauguration was. Yeah, it was pretty cool. All those kids, all of us, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how did you get news of America then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, eventually for me, eventually the school got an. Access to Internet and enough minutes to get on it that I would I would check, but not like we do here now with, you know, looking every moment of the time of what's going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So too expensive to do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the you know, the TV that we had in my house was was all foreign language. You know, it's all Russian, pretty much Russian. Occasionally we would see a news report from the United States. You know, there was a hurricane in Florida at the time when I was there. And I don't know how many people ask me if my family was OK. You know, I'm from Michigan. So it's like, yeah, it's OK. The hurricane doesn't come all the way to Michigan, but it was hard for them to understand that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Just like you didn't know where your vision is. They don't know. They're just Florida and Michigan. Right. That's good. That's great. OK, so if you're ready to move along, she's been coming time to leave. What was what is how did you experience that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 8.771441000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I do, you know. The grandkids will be talking about something I always say, oh you know, they're talking about well we were eating. Eggplant the other day, you know, mom made the the my daughter in law made eggplant and I said, oh, that's badımcan. And so, you know, we kind of they kind of looked at me. Well, that's what you know, that's what eggplants called in Azerbaijan, badımcan, you know. So it's was like and it's funny how those words pop out of you, you 10 years. And I and I didn't speak the language well, but those things will. Come up, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Right. Yeah. So it's been actually in eight years since you’ve been back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Eight years since I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you went back to work for some time. Are you still working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I officially retired last November, so I was still I was still teaching those computer skills classes to the library system. Three hundred classes a year up until last November. And then I made the decision to be done. I thought, I'm sixty seven years old. I've done my 45 years and I sold my home. To my son, he bought a small RV conversion van and I'm homeless. That's my home. And I'm traveling around the United States right now and trying to find something to be passionate about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so would you have done that if you had not been in the Peace Corps do you think?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.6561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I officially retired last November, so I was still I was still teaching those computer skills classes to the library system. Three hundred classes a year up until last November. And then I made the decision to be done. I thought, I'm sixty seven years old. I've done my 45 years and I sold my home. To my son, he bought a small RV conversion van and I'm homeless. That's my home. And I'm traveling around the United States right now and trying to find something to be passionate about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so would you have done that if you had not been in the Peace Corps do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I usually say the Peace Corps was the best thing I ever did other than having my family and my grandkids. That really opened my eyes. I certainly had traveled as a married woman. I traveled, we camped, we done lots of wonderful things. But I would never have ventured. I mean, we I invented Germany because we hosted I had hosted five young German professionals over the years in my home. So I always had those connections. But to step out and do that, I don't think I would have had those skills. And my friends say, you know, you're the only person we know that would be would we consider taking the Greyhound bus from Sarasota to to Naples instead of renting a car or having somebody pick you up? Yeah, well, public transportation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know an import here and there is no public transportation. So, you know, that was something that, you know, not not like a big city person would have had that familiarity. So, you know, if I hadn't had the Peace Corps, I would I am sure I wouldn't be as independent as I am and feels confident to do that as a you know, as a senior."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So so and so you you that feels like it's more confidence that it's you've got it from the Peace Corps experience. Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know an import here and there is no public transportation. So, you know, that was something that, you know, not not like a big city person would have had that familiarity. So, you know, if I hadn't had the Peace Corps, I would I am sure I wouldn't be as independent as I am and feels confident to do that as a you know, as a senior."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So so and so you you that feels like it's more confidence that it's you've got it from the Peace Corps experience. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Know, I mean, yeah, I think I'm comfortable with doing things outside of my comfort zone. Maybe that's it. And not being anxious about. Whether it's going to turn out OK, and I certainly have been in situations where, you know, I wondered when I was in Azerbaijan two years ago for the wedding when I got to Baku from on the bumbling, bumbling Russian bus. It was on forever and ever to get there with the benzene burning in the in the engine. And I got to the airport, I found out that the the Lufthansa pilots were on strike in Germany and I could get to Germany, but I couldn't get back to the United States until the next day after that screwed up all my connections with my family to pick me up and everything. And and I just, you know, worked through it and stayed in Germany for another week and went home a week later. So I would never have done those kinds of things before. I had done those that kind of travel. Yeah. In confidence to do it right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just do it calmly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. Just figured it out and you know, that was it. Yeah. So you wash out your clothes and go on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds wonderful. So is there anything else that you want to reflect on before we close our conversation?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Know, I mean, yeah, I think I'm comfortable with doing things outside of my comfort zone. Maybe that's it. And not being anxious about. Whether it's going to turn out OK, and I certainly have been in situations where, you know, I wondered when I was in Azerbaijan two years ago for the wedding when I got to Baku from on the bumbling, bumbling Russian bus. It was on forever and ever to get there with the benzene burning in the in the engine. And I got to the airport, I found out that the the Lufthansa pilots were on strike in Germany and I could get to Germany, but I couldn't get back to the United States until the next day after that screwed up all my connections with my family to pick me up and everything. And and I just, you know, worked through it and stayed in Germany for another week and went home a week later. So I would never have done those kinds of things before. I had done those that kind of travel. Yeah. In confidence to do it right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just do it calmly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. Just figured it out and you know, that was it. Yeah. So you wash out your clothes and go on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds wonderful. So is there anything else that you want to reflect on before we close our conversation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I think we've got the highlights. Yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, this has been a great a great story and congratulations on the courage you've shown to take that step to join the Peace Corps."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. Just figured it out and you know, that was it. Yeah. So you wash out your clothes and go on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds wonderful. So is there anything else that you want to reflect on before we close our conversation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I think we've got the highlights. Yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, this has been a great a great story and congratulations on the courage you've shown to take that step to join the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Might do it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's not too late."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00056:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I think we've got the highlights. Yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, this has been a great a great story and congratulations on the courage you've shown to take that step to join the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Might do it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's not too late."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. I know. You know, I've got a few other things I'm thinking of doing, but I keep my eye on the response all the time, looking for something that would be, you know, of interest and my skills. Right. But yeah. Yeah. I don't think I'm ready for a mud hut in Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you never know. You never know. I know."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.198326161412286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Iowa. I was born and raised in Iowa, the central part of Iowa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did your travels bring you here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to college at the Iowa State University and they had a co-op program at that time with Dryden. Well, it wasn't Dryden at that time, but they had a co-op program with what is now Dryden, and I signed up for that. Eight of us came out that first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you all females, or were some males and females?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two of us were females. Emma and I roomed together. Emma Jaycox and I roomed together. The guys, some of them roomed together. I'm not sure how they split up, but they had friends that they stayed with, too. At the time, I was at the end of the freshman year and there were three of us who started out in aerospace engineering at Iowa State, and Emma and I were the ones that came out here. The other girl, and I don't remember her name at all, dropped out of the aerospace program the first year and Emma dropped out after we went back.\\n\\n They always told you, when you had your freshman orientation—I don't know if you had that or not in yours—but in the freshman orientation for engineering, we're all sitting there, we're all wide-eyed, and they say, \"Okay, now look to your left and look to your right,\" and we're sort of bobbing our heads back and forth, and they say, \"Now, when you graduate, only one of you is going to be in the class,\" and that was about right. So there was about one-third of the people who started in the freshman year graduated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came as part of your co-op program, what year was that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.887029068235872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to college at the Iowa State University and they had a co-op program at that time with Dryden. Well, it wasn't Dryden at that time, but they had a co-op program with what is now Dryden, and I signed up for that. Eight of us came out that first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you all females, or were some males and females?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two of us were females. Emma and I roomed together. Emma Jaycox and I roomed together. The guys, some of them roomed together. I'm not sure how they split up, but they had friends that they stayed with, too. At the time, I was at the end of the freshman year and there were three of us who started out in aerospace engineering at Iowa State, and Emma and I were the ones that came out here. The other girl, and I don't remember her name at all, dropped out of the aerospace program the first year and Emma dropped out after we went back.\\n\\n They always told you, when you had your freshman orientation—I don't know if you had that or not in yours—but in the freshman orientation for engineering, we're all sitting there, we're all wide-eyed, and they say, \"Okay, now look to your left and look to your right,\" and we're sort of bobbing our heads back and forth, and they say, \"Now, when you graduate, only one of you is going to be in the class,\" and that was about right. So there was about one-third of the people who started in the freshman year graduated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came as part of your co-op program, what year was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1963."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that time, aerospace engineering, was that a relatively new field?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.8744767424843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two of us were females. Emma and I roomed together. Emma Jaycox and I roomed together. The guys, some of them roomed together. I'm not sure how they split up, but they had friends that they stayed with, too. At the time, I was at the end of the freshman year and there were three of us who started out in aerospace engineering at Iowa State, and Emma and I were the ones that came out here. The other girl, and I don't remember her name at all, dropped out of the aerospace program the first year and Emma dropped out after we went back.\\n\\n They always told you, when you had your freshman orientation—I don't know if you had that or not in yours—but in the freshman orientation for engineering, we're all sitting there, we're all wide-eyed, and they say, \"Okay, now look to your left and look to your right,\" and we're sort of bobbing our heads back and forth, and they say, \"Now, when you graduate, only one of you is going to be in the class,\" and that was about right. So there was about one-third of the people who started in the freshman year graduated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came as part of your co-op program, what year was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1963."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that time, aerospace engineering, was that a relatively new field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was more the aeronautical, but Iowa State had gone for the aerospace engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you interested in that field?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 30.971640824982558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1963."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that time, aerospace engineering, was that a relatively new field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was more the aeronautical, but Iowa State had gone for the aerospace engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you interested in that field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't really decide what I wanted to do, and there was an article in the Des Moines Register Sunday paper about a woman who'd gone into engineering, and it sounded interesting and I liked planes. I thought that would be fun to do, and so that was why I focused on aerospace engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this your first time away from Iowa to come to some place as exciting as the NASA Flight Research Center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.417888648810088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, it was the first time. Three of us flew out together, literally, in a small—it was Piper Tri-Pacer. Emma knew a guy who was willing to fly us out, basically for the cost of the gas. So it was myself and Emma and Jim, whose name escapes me right at the minute. Anyhow, we all flew out together, and we left from Marshalltown is little airport and he flew in there.\\n\\n Not realizing the size of the airplanes, I'd already packed my bags. I knew they were somewhat weight-restricted, but I figured, well, I weigh less than they do, so I can pack more than they do. But there isn't that much room in a Piper Tri-Pacer, so my mother shipped it out to me on a Greyhound bus.\\n\\n Jim Cooper was the guy I came out with. He and I were in the back seat because it was Emma's friend, so she got to ride in the front seat. We flew into Oklahoma, Oklahoma City Airport. The significance of that is, I was doing great until that time, so we got off and I wasn't feeling really good, so I just had 7-Up. I remember that I had 7-Up to drink. The rest of the flight wasn't pleasant for anybody else, me included. I didn't feel good, but luckily he had a coffee can. Poor Jim, he sat in the back seat with me. I'm busy barfing away in my coffee can, and they're sitting in the front seat. It wasn't a very pleasant trip for them, either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got there. Of course, my mother, she was—and my father was there, too. There were tears in their eyes as they watched me take off, especially in this little tiny airplane. I don't know if you've ever seen a Piper Tri-Pacer, but they aren't very big."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were your parents involved in engineering in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was a new field for them as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 21.57543183201121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got there. Of course, my mother, she was—and my father was there, too. There were tears in their eyes as they watched me take off, especially in this little tiny airplane. I don't know if you've ever seen a Piper Tri-Pacer, but they aren't very big."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were your parents involved in engineering in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was a new field for them as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. My brother had gone to college. He majored in probably something to do with zoology because he worked for the Conservation Commission. But no, my mother had gone to college, actually, which was rare for her age. She was born in 1905. I was the youngest by a lot in the family. She went to college. She actually went to Iowa State, only it was Iowa State College at that time, I think, is what it was called at that time. She only went for two years. She and her sister went, but her sister didn't want to continue, and my mother didn't want to go on by herself, and she didn't want to teach. So then she went to a business college.\\n\\n My dad didn't graduate from high school. They were farmers and his father said, \"I need you on the field. I don't need you in school,\" so he never graduated from high school, even."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can understand why they had tears in their eyes then, as you fly off in a plane and then off to a land of California."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.08381314667912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was a new field for them as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. My brother had gone to college. He majored in probably something to do with zoology because he worked for the Conservation Commission. But no, my mother had gone to college, actually, which was rare for her age. She was born in 1905. I was the youngest by a lot in the family. She went to college. She actually went to Iowa State, only it was Iowa State College at that time, I think, is what it was called at that time. She only went for two years. She and her sister went, but her sister didn't want to continue, and my mother didn't want to go on by herself, and she didn't want to teach. So then she went to a business college.\\n\\n My dad didn't graduate from high school. They were farmers and his father said, \"I need you on the field. I don't need you in school,\" so he never graduated from high school, even."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can understand why they had tears in their eyes then, as you fly off in a plane and then off to a land of California."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, because it was the desert. It was going to be warm and really nice. So I didn't bring any heavy coats. I came out in the end of May. I started right after Memorial Day. And of course, as you know, from being here in the desert, it gets pretty hot in the summer, but the nights get really cool, or they can get really cool, and I wasn't expecting that. And then the winters get cold as well.\\n\\n I didn't go back. I was out here for six months at that time, so I went back in, oh, it would have been right around Christmas. November. It must have been around November. Yes, it was right around Thanksgiving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't go back the same way you came, though, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.387423637875454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, because it was the desert. It was going to be warm and really nice. So I didn't bring any heavy coats. I came out in the end of May. I started right after Memorial Day. And of course, as you know, from being here in the desert, it gets pretty hot in the summer, but the nights get really cool, or they can get really cool, and I wasn't expecting that. And then the winters get cold as well.\\n\\n I didn't go back. I was out here for six months at that time, so I went back in, oh, it would have been right around Christmas. November. It must have been around November. Yes, it was right around Thanksgiving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't go back the same way you came, though, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. Well, the first time on the co-op program, the first and last time, you have to pay for your own transportation. The other advantage of going out with Emma and with Jim was that there was a group of us, and it turned out we lucked out with the guy because none of us were old enough to rent a car, so he was able to rent a car and we got a place to stay before he flew back. We never even thought about that, but you can't rent a car at nineteen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. I think even till today you can't do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. I think you have to be—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it's twenty-five."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.319359597639394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. Well, the first time on the co-op program, the first and last time, you have to pay for your own transportation. The other advantage of going out with Emma and with Jim was that there was a group of us, and it turned out we lucked out with the guy because none of us were old enough to rent a car, so he was able to rent a car and we got a place to stay before he flew back. We never even thought about that, but you can't rent a car at nineteen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. I think even till today you can't do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. I think you have to be—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it's twenty-five."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I think somebody else was talking about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you land close by?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.13262177515488, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. I think you have to be—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it's twenty-five."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I think somebody else was talking about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you land close by?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We landed at Fox Field [General William J. Fox Airfield]. You'll see a sign for it when you go back to Lancaster [California]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You kind of had a bird's-eye view of where you were going to be."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.814024194616536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I think somebody else was talking about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you land close by?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We landed at Fox Field [General William J. Fox Airfield]. You'll see a sign for it when you go back to Lancaster [California]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You kind of had a bird's-eye view of where you were going to be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we stayed in Las Vegas [Nevada]. We made it to Las Vegas the first day. By the time I got there I was really hungry, and the guy was really worried because I was eating a lot. I'd lost, kind of barfed everything out on the plane. And then we flew into Lancaster. It was dark when we flew in, naturally. It was quite a trip. I think actually it was worse for the other people. I mean, I was sick, but they had to listen and watch me, so they had a much worse time of it than I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody made it, and your roommate stayed with you."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.571137994018375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We landed at Fox Field [General William J. Fox Airfield]. You'll see a sign for it when you go back to Lancaster [California]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You kind of had a bird's-eye view of where you were going to be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we stayed in Las Vegas [Nevada]. We made it to Las Vegas the first day. By the time I got there I was really hungry, and the guy was really worried because I was eating a lot. I'd lost, kind of barfed everything out on the plane. And then we flew into Lancaster. It was dark when we flew in, naturally. It was quite a trip. I think actually it was worse for the other people. I mean, I was sick, but they had to listen and watch me, so they had a much worse time of it than I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody made it, and your roommate stayed with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We roomed together that year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in town in Lancaster, or were you out here on—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.523486660020417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we stayed in Las Vegas [Nevada]. We made it to Las Vegas the first day. By the time I got there I was really hungry, and the guy was really worried because I was eating a lot. I'd lost, kind of barfed everything out on the plane. And then we flew into Lancaster. It was dark when we flew in, naturally. It was quite a trip. I think actually it was worse for the other people. I mean, I was sick, but they had to listen and watch me, so they had a much worse time of it than I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody made it, and your roommate stayed with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We roomed together that year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in town in Lancaster, or were you out here on—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were in town. Earlier, they did have places for people to stay on the base, but by the time, by 1963, they didn't really have any places on the base that people could stay long term, so Emma and I stayed in a trailer court. We had our own trailer. We lucked out. We were right across from the restroom. They had a restroom area there. Because the woman told us when we rented the trailer, \"Don't flush the stool in your trailer. It's slow-flushing.\" Oh, okay. So we never did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a summer."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.69276295557824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We roomed together that year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in town in Lancaster, or were you out here on—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were in town. Earlier, they did have places for people to stay on the base, but by the time, by 1963, they didn't really have any places on the base that people could stay long term, so Emma and I stayed in a trailer court. We had our own trailer. We lucked out. We were right across from the restroom. They had a restroom area there. Because the woman told us when we rented the trailer, \"Don't flush the stool in your trailer. It's slow-flushing.\" Oh, okay. So we never did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a summer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we were close to where they had the restroom in the trailer court, so we could just run over there, so that worked out really good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you get back and forth to the Center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 24.10306995064249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were in town. Earlier, they did have places for people to stay on the base, but by the time, by 1963, they didn't really have any places on the base that people could stay long term, so Emma and I stayed in a trailer court. We had our own trailer. We lucked out. We were right across from the restroom. They had a restroom area there. Because the woman told us when we rented the trailer, \"Don't flush the stool in your trailer. It's slow-flushing.\" Oh, okay. So we never did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a summer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we were close to where they had the restroom in the trailer court, so we could just run over there, so that worked out really good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you get back and forth to the Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, some of the other guys had a car. Actually, probably a couple of them had cars, so we carpooled with them. There was also a bus, but the bus didn't go by our street, so we were in the carpool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Give us your first impressions of the Center as you came here those first days."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 24.55896661182499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we were close to where they had the restroom in the trailer court, so we could just run over there, so that worked out really good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you get back and forth to the Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, some of the other guys had a car. Actually, probably a couple of them had cars, so we carpooled with them. There was also a bus, but the bus didn't go by our street, so we were in the carpool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Give us your first impressions of the Center as you came here those first days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't really remember much about that. I think everything was just so new. The trip and everything had just been so new that—obviously, it was considerably different than Iowa, as far as the green went, as far as the humidity went. It was quite a bit different.\\n\\n The first group I worked with—at that time, the groups were more in just rooms. We didn't have the individual cubicles. So I went in this first group and all the desks are really close together because that's how they got so many people in there. So your desk would face somebody else's. It was just a lot of different people to meet. It was a fun time.\\n\\n They were adding on to the building at that time. The '63 addition everybody refers to, and of course, they had this sign up, \"Keep Out\" so we all checked it out to see what was going on in the building. But it was a good group of people I worked with then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were a lot of them co-ops or were a lot of them other?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.122434309405913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That's what I remember most about them working on. They also did a lot of the airspeed work. Terry Larson was also in that group. They did a lot of the airspeed work and he did a lot of plotting. Most people don't do the plotting anymore. We'd have dreams about these little points after a while, we did so much plotting of them. It was very tedious work, very time-consuming, very meticulous.\\n\\n Basically, you'd take a sheet of paper and it had many little columns on it, many rows, and we'd fill it all up with numbers and we'd plot all those numbers on a piece of paper. So you got really familiar with your data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it many days of your time during those weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That and building the model, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any expectations of what you would be doing during your co-op term, or were these something totally different than what you expected? Well, I suppose the model, because you'd never done that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I knew what I was going to be doing. I was kind of naive in that respect. I didn't really have any expectations. I just was coming out here to work, and I didn't know what was going to be involved with it. We had only had the first of—you hadn't even gotten into your aerospace engineering courses the first year, it's just your general curriculum, where they weed out most of the people. And then you get into the second year where you start getting into the courses, so I didn't really have a feel for what was going to be involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounded like you were ready for any surprises that came your way then."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.247149232673236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That and building the model, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any expectations of what you would be doing during your co-op term, or were these something totally different than what you expected? Well, I suppose the model, because you'd never done that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I knew what I was going to be doing. I was kind of naive in that respect. I didn't really have any expectations. I just was coming out here to work, and I didn't know what was going to be involved with it. We had only had the first of—you hadn't even gotten into your aerospace engineering courses the first year, it's just your general curriculum, where they weed out most of the people. And then you get into the second year where you start getting into the courses, so I didn't really have a feel for what was going to be involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounded like you were ready for any surprises that came your way then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, Jim Cooper worked here, but we were the only two co-ops that came back after college to work at Dryden, of the original eight that started. The others all went elsewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the first time that Dryden had had a co-op program as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.49683248074804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I knew what I was going to be doing. I was kind of naive in that respect. I didn't really have any expectations. I just was coming out here to work, and I didn't know what was going to be involved with it. We had only had the first of—you hadn't even gotten into your aerospace engineering courses the first year, it's just your general curriculum, where they weed out most of the people. And then you get into the second year where you start getting into the courses, so I didn't really have a feel for what was going to be involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounded like you were ready for any surprises that came your way then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, Jim Cooper worked here, but we were the only two co-ops that came back after college to work at Dryden, of the original eight that started. The others all went elsewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the first time that Dryden had had a co-op program as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just happened to be your group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.774258311942267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, Jim Cooper worked here, but we were the only two co-ops that came back after college to work at Dryden, of the original eight that started. The others all went elsewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the first time that Dryden had had a co-op program as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just happened to be your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It happened to be my group. I think it was the first one with Iowa State. There were other people out here who had been to Iowa State, and graduated from Iowa State, but I think it was the first co-op program at Iowa State. It continued for a few years, but then the co-op program at Iowa State was canceled because they didn't think that Iowa State had enough minorities in their school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm glad you got here when you did. You were here for six months, was that your term, that you said?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.749175902158074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just happened to be your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It happened to be my group. I think it was the first one with Iowa State. There were other people out here who had been to Iowa State, and graduated from Iowa State, but I think it was the first co-op program at Iowa State. It continued for a few years, but then the co-op program at Iowa State was canceled because they didn't think that Iowa State had enough minorities in their school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm glad you got here when you did. You were here for six months, was that your term, that you said?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There were three, six months, and then the last one you had to go back for your full senior year of school, so it was only like three months. I should say, Iowa State dropped out of the co-op program, too, because they kept cutting down how many they could send, and pretty soon it got to where the numbers were so small that they couldn't justify rearranging their schedule for them. But the main reason Iowa State got out was because NASA didn't feel they had enough minority students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's too bad. When you went back that November, did you have any thoughts of staying back in Iowa, or were you looking forward to coming back here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.832417669064526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It happened to be my group. I think it was the first one with Iowa State. There were other people out here who had been to Iowa State, and graduated from Iowa State, but I think it was the first co-op program at Iowa State. It continued for a few years, but then the co-op program at Iowa State was canceled because they didn't think that Iowa State had enough minorities in their school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm glad you got here when you did. You were here for six months, was that your term, that you said?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There were three, six months, and then the last one you had to go back for your full senior year of school, so it was only like three months. I should say, Iowa State dropped out of the co-op program, too, because they kept cutting down how many they could send, and pretty soon it got to where the numbers were so small that they couldn't justify rearranging their schedule for them. But the main reason Iowa State got out was because NASA didn't feel they had enough minority students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's too bad. When you went back that November, did you have any thoughts of staying back in Iowa, or were you looking forward to coming back here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I got into the program, so I was looking forward to coming back. I expected to come back and I was looking forward to it. I'd made friends out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you returned, did your duties change?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.036019632293918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There were three, six months, and then the last one you had to go back for your full senior year of school, so it was only like three months. I should say, Iowa State dropped out of the co-op program, too, because they kept cutting down how many they could send, and pretty soon it got to where the numbers were so small that they couldn't justify rearranging their schedule for them. But the main reason Iowa State got out was because NASA didn't feel they had enough minority students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's too bad. When you went back that November, did you have any thoughts of staying back in Iowa, or were you looking forward to coming back here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I got into the program, so I was looking forward to coming back. I expected to come back and I was looking forward to it. I'd made friends out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you returned, did your duties change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The overall duties remained the same. The projects would change. But basically, we didn't have the computers yet so you were doing just a lot of hand labor. Used the slide rules. Not the calculators, mechanical calculators so much. Of course, when the hand calculators came in, the hand computers came in, that was a big deal. Everybody had to have one of those. You could use those a lot, but you still were transcribing everything on paper because you didn't have anything.\\n\\n Then when they started getting the printed ones, ones you could actually print stuff out, that really changed. They started getting to the mainframes, the big computers. A lot of it, for a long time, until the personal computers really started to get on the individual's desk, you still did a lot of hand work. You don't do much of that anymore. Everybody has their own programs that they run instead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the first projects that you worked on, other than that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.040021813659909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I got into the program, so I was looking forward to coming back. I expected to come back and I was looking forward to it. I'd made friends out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you returned, did your duties change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The overall duties remained the same. The projects would change. But basically, we didn't have the computers yet so you were doing just a lot of hand labor. Used the slide rules. Not the calculators, mechanical calculators so much. Of course, when the hand calculators came in, the hand computers came in, that was a big deal. Everybody had to have one of those. You could use those a lot, but you still were transcribing everything on paper because you didn't have anything.\\n\\n Then when they started getting the printed ones, ones you could actually print stuff out, that really changed. They started getting to the mainframes, the big computers. A lot of it, for a long time, until the personal computers really started to get on the individual's desk, you still did a lot of hand work. You don't do much of that anymore. Everybody has their own programs that they run instead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the first projects that you worked on, other than that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "X-15. I worked on that. The LLRV continued on for quite a while, and then I worked on the B-70, XB-70 and the X-15 were the first ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The LLRV, the first summer, and you built the model and that was your group, and then when you returned, were you able to watch the progression of this vehicle, and could you share some of the evolution of that process?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.155579792955454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The overall duties remained the same. The projects would change. But basically, we didn't have the computers yet so you were doing just a lot of hand labor. Used the slide rules. Not the calculators, mechanical calculators so much. Of course, when the hand calculators came in, the hand computers came in, that was a big deal. Everybody had to have one of those. You could use those a lot, but you still were transcribing everything on paper because you didn't have anything.\\n\\n Then when they started getting the printed ones, ones you could actually print stuff out, that really changed. They started getting to the mainframes, the big computers. A lot of it, for a long time, until the personal computers really started to get on the individual's desk, you still did a lot of hand work. You don't do much of that anymore. Everybody has their own programs that they run instead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the first projects that you worked on, other than that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "X-15. I worked on that. The LLRV continued on for quite a while, and then I worked on the B-70, XB-70 and the X-15 were the first ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The LLRV, the first summer, and you built the model and that was your group, and then when you returned, were you able to watch the progression of this vehicle, and could you share some of the evolution of that process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the next time I came back, they'd gotten to where they were actually—I think they had some of it built already so now you had to have your configuration control and your drawings to keep everybody updated on that, and I was involved with that at that time. I can't remember when they started flying it. They may have flown it when I was back at school the first time. I don't remember that. I don't remember being involved with the flights on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't get to see it fly?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.28397754772828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "X-15. I worked on that. The LLRV continued on for quite a while, and then I worked on the B-70, XB-70 and the X-15 were the first ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The LLRV, the first summer, and you built the model and that was your group, and then when you returned, were you able to watch the progression of this vehicle, and could you share some of the evolution of that process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the next time I came back, they'd gotten to where they were actually—I think they had some of it built already so now you had to have your configuration control and your drawings to keep everybody updated on that, and I was involved with that at that time. I can't remember when they started flying it. They may have flown it when I was back at school the first time. I don't remember that. I don't remember being involved with the flights on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't get to see it fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember seeing it fly. I remember seeing it on the videotape, but I don't remember seeing it fly. The X-15, obviously—well, you may not be familiar with that, but they were starting their control rooms at that time. I'm not sure when they actually started the control rooms, but you could go up and they'd have a few strip charts they could watch for the X-15 flights. But then when it landed, everybody would go out either on the roof or on the lake bed so you see it come in, and that was always fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your part of the X-15? You mentioned that you had worked on that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 12.5377528308092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the next time I came back, they'd gotten to where they were actually—I think they had some of it built already so now you had to have your configuration control and your drawings to keep everybody updated on that, and I was involved with that at that time. I can't remember when they started flying it. They may have flown it when I was back at school the first time. I don't remember that. I don't remember being involved with the flights on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't get to see it fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember seeing it fly. I remember seeing it on the videotape, but I don't remember seeing it fly. The X-15, obviously—well, you may not be familiar with that, but they were starting their control rooms at that time. I'm not sure when they actually started the control rooms, but you could go up and they'd have a few strip charts they could watch for the X-15 flights. But then when it landed, everybody would go out either on the roof or on the lake bed so you see it come in, and that was always fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your part of the X-15? You mentioned that you had worked on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked on the base drag area. I wrote a report about the base drag on the X-15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you give us some details of how you collected that data, and how long it took? Kind of the process of how that came about."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.440409740602346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The person who wanted the plot, he didn't think that was very funny because that wasn't what he wanted. It looked kind of funny on the plot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of pressure to get this done in a specific amount of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It depended on what group you were in. No. Obviously, the airspeed group was under a lot of pressure because everybody was dependent on their plots to finish their data, calculate their data, so they had a lot of pressure on them. On something like the base pressure, there wasn't near that kind of emphasis on getting it out because it wasn't as important to continuing anything.\\n\\n So if it was the first flight of anything, then there was usually a lot of pressure to get something out because you wanted to see what the airplane was doing. But after a few flights, then it was more just filling in the points that you didn't have, and making sure that your trends were still the same. Especially if you had some points that were a little funny-looking, you wanted to make sure that you got repeatable data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The technical report that you mentioned, the information that was contained in it, was it released before you actually published the report, or is the report more of a formalized release of your information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The report was a formalized releasing of the information. Anything that went out before, well, certainly under a lot of pressure, would have \"preliminary\" on it. Usually nothing went out of the Center that didn't have a report attached to it, or it was given as a paper somewhere. That was usually the only way the data went out of the Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about among the working members of the team, were you able to pass information informally to inform the other team members?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.378233045113717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It depended on what group you were in. No. Obviously, the airspeed group was under a lot of pressure because everybody was dependent on their plots to finish their data, calculate their data, so they had a lot of pressure on them. On something like the base pressure, there wasn't near that kind of emphasis on getting it out because it wasn't as important to continuing anything.\\n\\n So if it was the first flight of anything, then there was usually a lot of pressure to get something out because you wanted to see what the airplane was doing. But after a few flights, then it was more just filling in the points that you didn't have, and making sure that your trends were still the same. Especially if you had some points that were a little funny-looking, you wanted to make sure that you got repeatable data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The technical report that you mentioned, the information that was contained in it, was it released before you actually published the report, or is the report more of a formalized release of your information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The report was a formalized releasing of the information. Anything that went out before, well, certainly under a lot of pressure, would have \"preliminary\" on it. Usually nothing went out of the Center that didn't have a report attached to it, or it was given as a paper somewhere. That was usually the only way the data went out of the Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about among the working members of the team, were you able to pass information informally to inform the other team members?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. There's a lot of discussion. Yes. Your supervisor would always check to see what was going on, but you'd keep him informed. But yes, there would be a lot of discussion among the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you part of the discussion groups early on with your career here, or was there a certain level that you became more and more involved in that aspect?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.420258939015241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The report was a formalized releasing of the information. Anything that went out before, well, certainly under a lot of pressure, would have \"preliminary\" on it. Usually nothing went out of the Center that didn't have a report attached to it, or it was given as a paper somewhere. That was usually the only way the data went out of the Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about among the working members of the team, were you able to pass information informally to inform the other team members?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. There's a lot of discussion. Yes. Your supervisor would always check to see what was going on, but you'd keep him informed. But yes, there would be a lot of discussion among the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you part of the discussion groups early on with your career here, or was there a certain level that you became more and more involved in that aspect?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it depended on importance, how big the question was. The supervisor would usually do a lot of the discussions. If the project team got together, it would depend on what level we wanted to present it at. If it was going to be just an overview, then often the supervisor would give it. If they wanted to get down into more detail, then the people who were actually working on it would often get the information.\\n\\n So it varied. Kind of like it is now. If you've got somebody coming in from headquarters, usually it's a supervisor that's going to give it. If you've got the team getting together to talk about what they're doing, then it's usually the individuals that give it. It hasn't changed that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The technical report that you mentioned, is that the first one that you had published, or when was the first one that you had done?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.578065487794712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. There's a lot of discussion. Yes. Your supervisor would always check to see what was going on, but you'd keep him informed. But yes, there would be a lot of discussion among the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you part of the discussion groups early on with your career here, or was there a certain level that you became more and more involved in that aspect?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it depended on importance, how big the question was. The supervisor would usually do a lot of the discussions. If the project team got together, it would depend on what level we wanted to present it at. If it was going to be just an overview, then often the supervisor would give it. If they wanted to get down into more detail, then the people who were actually working on it would often get the information.\\n\\n So it varied. Kind of like it is now. If you've got somebody coming in from headquarters, usually it's a supervisor that's going to give it. If you've got the team getting together to talk about what they're doing, then it's usually the individuals that give it. It hasn't changed that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The technical report that you mentioned, is that the first one that you had published, or when was the first one that you had done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was XB-70, I believe, was the first one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the primary author?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.75340609754968, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it depended on importance, how big the question was. The supervisor would usually do a lot of the discussions. If the project team got together, it would depend on what level we wanted to present it at. If it was going to be just an overview, then often the supervisor would give it. If they wanted to get down into more detail, then the people who were actually working on it would often get the information.\\n\\n So it varied. Kind of like it is now. If you've got somebody coming in from headquarters, usually it's a supervisor that's going to give it. If you've got the team getting together to talk about what they're doing, then it's usually the individuals that give it. It hasn't changed that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The technical report that you mentioned, is that the first one that you had published, or when was the first one that you had done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was XB-70, I believe, was the first one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the primary author?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was second. The supervisor was the first author on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you've had several that you've published?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.059340108388534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was XB-70, I believe, was the first one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the primary author?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was second. The supervisor was the first author on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you've had several that you've published?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And some as the primary author on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.510377898209482, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was second. The supervisor was the first author on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you've had several that you've published?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And some as the primary author on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of them were as the primary author."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you like that aspect of compiling information and releasing it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.122642109121646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And some as the primary author on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of them were as the primary author."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you like that aspect of compiling information and releasing it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it's kind of a closure. You've thought about the experiment, you've decided what you want to do, you get the information, you compile it all together, and you report on it. It makes a nice closure of what you're doing. Although the report writing itself can be kind of miserable. It's a case of everybody has ideas about how words should be written down, and if you happen to kind of go along the same path as the people who are reviewing it, then it's okay. If you get somebody who doesn't quite think the same way you do, then you wind up doing a lot of rewriting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've had both experiences?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.91404678791294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of them were as the primary author."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you like that aspect of compiling information and releasing it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it's kind of a closure. You've thought about the experiment, you've decided what you want to do, you get the information, you compile it all together, and you report on it. It makes a nice closure of what you're doing. Although the report writing itself can be kind of miserable. It's a case of everybody has ideas about how words should be written down, and if you happen to kind of go along the same path as the people who are reviewing it, then it's okay. If you get somebody who doesn't quite think the same way you do, then you wind up doing a lot of rewriting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've had both experiences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I've been fairly lucky most of the time. I haven't had to do that much rewriting. Some people, have had more problems with that. They just don't happen to think the way somebody else does, and sometimes you get the controversial reports and they kind of toss it back and forth. \"Well, we don't really want to say this\" and the next guy, \"Oh, yes. We do want to talk about this.\" And so the poor author gets kind of stuck in the middle about who's going to do what. But most of the time it goes fairly smooth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has that process changed much since your first days here, to where you are now?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.694845653640528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the computers were off in their own room. By the time I came, they were all in one room, so there really wasn't any confusion in that respect. Not really. Co-ops always complain about getting all the tedious work, but that's about all you can give to them and they expected that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your co-op program lasted several years, but then, of course, you came on as full time. Did your role change, and how did it change once you took the full-time employment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That one you had to be a little bit careful of, and it was the same way for the boys as the girls, the men and women in the program, because people tended to remember what you had been, so it was a little bit of a transition there. Not real hard, but you just had to be aware of it, that people still remembered you as the co-op, and I can understand that. As I get older, the years, they go by pretty fast. It's hard to keep these people straight and equal.\\n\\n So that was a concern, but everybody had that problem who was a co-op. You just had to remember that you were no longer the co-op, you were actually the engineer now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with co-ops then that were part of your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure they were somewhat grateful to know that you understood what they were going through. Sometimes that helps."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.327606281822809, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That one you had to be a little bit careful of, and it was the same way for the boys as the girls, the men and women in the program, because people tended to remember what you had been, so it was a little bit of a transition there. Not real hard, but you just had to be aware of it, that people still remembered you as the co-op, and I can understand that. As I get older, the years, they go by pretty fast. It's hard to keep these people straight and equal.\\n\\n So that was a concern, but everybody had that problem who was a co-op. You just had to remember that you were no longer the co-op, you were actually the engineer now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with co-ops then that were part of your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure they were somewhat grateful to know that you understood what they were going through. Sometimes that helps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it does. Yes, it does help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got here, even as a co-op, and for sure as a full-time person, did you find someone that kind of helped you learn more about the Center, someone that maybe might have served as your mentor, or just someone that you could talk with sometimes when you had questions?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.030673646469787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure they were somewhat grateful to know that you understood what they were going through. Sometimes that helps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it does. Yes, it does help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got here, even as a co-op, and for sure as a full-time person, did you find someone that kind of helped you learn more about the Center, someone that maybe might have served as your mentor, or just someone that you could talk with sometimes when you had questions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were more just friends. I wouldn't say they were really mentors. They were more just friends I did things with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The atmosphere of Dryden, from what we read, it was more of family, close-knit."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.811859607188652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it does. Yes, it does help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got here, even as a co-op, and for sure as a full-time person, did you find someone that kind of helped you learn more about the Center, someone that maybe might have served as your mentor, or just someone that you could talk with sometimes when you had questions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were more just friends. I wouldn't say they were really mentors. They were more just friends I did things with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The atmosphere of Dryden, from what we read, it was more of family, close-knit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially those early days. Did you find that when you arrived as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.679844007987391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were more just friends. I wouldn't say they were really mentors. They were more just friends I did things with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The atmosphere of Dryden, from what we read, it was more of family, close-knit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially those early days. Did you find that when you arrived as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, everybody knew everybody. They had a picnic. Most of the people would go and they all knew each other. They knew their families, they knew their kids. I noticed that. You'd say, \"I'm working for so and so,\" and they'd say, \"Oh, yes. I know them\" or \"We did this together\" or something. So yes, it was still that way at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other social activities. You mentioned that you lived in Lancaster and worked out here. Did people socialize as well after work, other than organized activities?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.64427111998599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially those early days. Did you find that when you arrived as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, everybody knew everybody. They had a picnic. Most of the people would go and they all knew each other. They knew their families, they knew their kids. I noticed that. You'd say, \"I'm working for so and so,\" and they'd say, \"Oh, yes. I know them\" or \"We did this together\" or something. So yes, it was still that way at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other social activities. You mentioned that you lived in Lancaster and worked out here. Did people socialize as well after work, other than organized activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did some socializing. They had their softball teams and there would be quite a few of—the NASA people would be on it. They also had the basketball teams. That's about the main things. And they had people who hiked together and they fished together. So there was some of that.\\n\\n Hiking was a big thing for the group I was in. The particular people I was around, they really liked the hiking so they were always talking about their hiking trips and they'd go on their long hiking trips and they'd go fishing and they'd do things like that. That was about all they did.\\n\\n Bike-riding wasn't really a big thing then. You didn't have the ten-speeds yet so that wasn't as big a thing. Some of them had motorcycles, but usually they rode by themselves. They didn't really have those groups yet. There were some activities but you were pretty much on your own. You made your own friends and did your own things. It wasn't a formal activity type thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often did your projects change? You mentioned you were on the X-15 for a while. Did you get other ones as you were on the X-15, or were you finished with one and they moved you to another?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.90650755553826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did some socializing. They had their softball teams and there would be quite a few of—the NASA people would be on it. They also had the basketball teams. That's about the main things. And they had people who hiked together and they fished together. So there was some of that.\\n\\n Hiking was a big thing for the group I was in. The particular people I was around, they really liked the hiking so they were always talking about their hiking trips and they'd go on their long hiking trips and they'd go fishing and they'd do things like that. That was about all they did.\\n\\n Bike-riding wasn't really a big thing then. You didn't have the ten-speeds yet so that wasn't as big a thing. Some of them had motorcycles, but usually they rode by themselves. They didn't really have those groups yet. There were some activities but you were pretty much on your own. You made your own friends and did your own things. It wasn't a formal activity type thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often did your projects change? You mentioned you were on the X-15 for a while. Did you get other ones as you were on the X-15, or were you finished with one and they moved you to another?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You tended to finish a project at that time and gradually, maybe you would be phasing in as the other was phasing out, but you tended to be more one project, unless you were in like the airspeed group because then they would do the airspeed for all the projects, so if you were in a group that was a discipline function, then you would likely be on more than one. But there were enough people in the group that usually you just wound up working on one. They might be working on something different, but you would usually be working on the one project, primarily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what group were you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the vehicle aerodynamics group. That was its name at one time. Like now, the names keep changing but that was the name for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after the X-15, where did you move to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.118341728375844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You tended to finish a project at that time and gradually, maybe you would be phasing in as the other was phasing out, but you tended to be more one project, unless you were in like the airspeed group because then they would do the airspeed for all the projects, so if you were in a group that was a discipline function, then you would likely be on more than one. But there were enough people in the group that usually you just wound up working on one. They might be working on something different, but you would usually be working on the one project, primarily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what group were you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the vehicle aerodynamics group. That was its name at one time. Like now, the names keep changing but that was the name for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after the X-15, where did you move to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see, where did I go to then? That would have been the SR-71. I worked on that. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that. Why was that one fun?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.020379698195383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the vehicle aerodynamics group. That was its name at one time. Like now, the names keep changing but that was the name for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after the X-15, where did you move to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see, where did I go to then? That would have been the SR-71. I worked on that. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that. Why was that one fun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a relatively new airplane at that time, and of course it was secret. This got everybody all excited. We've got a secret project. So everybody always enjoyed that. And it's just a nice-looking airplane. It's a really slick—I don't know what expression I want to use, but it's a very exciting airplane to look at. It looks like it can go fast, and it could, so that was—it was exciting to work on something like that. It was new, relatively new. It was called the YF-12 at that time, because it was a prototype. So that's what made it exciting.\\n\\n The XB-70 was interesting, but it was kind of a big lumbering-looking airplane. It wasn't nearly as trim and sleek-looking as the SR-71s are. Well, you've probably seen an SR-71. They're a pretty slick-looking airplane. And YF-12s looked just like them, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your duties and responsibilities while you were on that project stay the same, or did they change?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.02264410910598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see, where did I go to then? That would have been the SR-71. I worked on that. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that. Why was that one fun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a relatively new airplane at that time, and of course it was secret. This got everybody all excited. We've got a secret project. So everybody always enjoyed that. And it's just a nice-looking airplane. It's a really slick—I don't know what expression I want to use, but it's a very exciting airplane to look at. It looks like it can go fast, and it could, so that was—it was exciting to work on something like that. It was new, relatively new. It was called the YF-12 at that time, because it was a prototype. So that's what made it exciting.\\n\\n The XB-70 was interesting, but it was kind of a big lumbering-looking airplane. It wasn't nearly as trim and sleek-looking as the SR-71s are. Well, you've probably seen an SR-71. They're a pretty slick-looking airplane. And YF-12s looked just like them, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your duties and responsibilities while you were on that project stay the same, or did they change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They stayed somewhat the same. You had more responsibility or worked more independently. The supervisor knew that you could handle it so they didn't follow you as close. It was more just checking up to see how things were going than what you actually were doing, so that worked out pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it more and more of a one-on-one tag-up with your supervisors?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.136271232339979, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a relatively new airplane at that time, and of course it was secret. This got everybody all excited. We've got a secret project. So everybody always enjoyed that. And it's just a nice-looking airplane. It's a really slick—I don't know what expression I want to use, but it's a very exciting airplane to look at. It looks like it can go fast, and it could, so that was—it was exciting to work on something like that. It was new, relatively new. It was called the YF-12 at that time, because it was a prototype. So that's what made it exciting.\\n\\n The XB-70 was interesting, but it was kind of a big lumbering-looking airplane. It wasn't nearly as trim and sleek-looking as the SR-71s are. Well, you've probably seen an SR-71. They're a pretty slick-looking airplane. And YF-12s looked just like them, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your duties and responsibilities while you were on that project stay the same, or did they change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They stayed somewhat the same. You had more responsibility or worked more independently. The supervisor knew that you could handle it so they didn't follow you as close. It was more just checking up to see how things were going than what you actually were doing, so that worked out pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it more and more of a one-on-one tag-up with your supervisors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have team meetings of everyone within your group to trade information, or did you need to know what other people in your group were doing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.373634702599977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They stayed somewhat the same. You had more responsibility or worked more independently. The supervisor knew that you could handle it so they didn't follow you as close. It was more just checking up to see how things were going than what you actually were doing, so that worked out pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it more and more of a one-on-one tag-up with your supervisors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have team meetings of everyone within your group to trade information, or did you need to know what other people in your group were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not usually. They were usually on a different project, so you didn't really need to know. If anything came up you thought was important that everybody should know about, then you'd share that, but most of the time you didn't. Some of the groups, I didn't wind up in one of those, you'd actually be the whole project. They had a YF-12 project office, but the people in our group didn't actually sit in that office. We were more of the piggy-back experiments, and so we didn't sit in with them. They were more the primary experiments. The piggy-back experiment, you didn't have to come up with as much money because, after all, I'm going along for the ride, so I don't have to pay for as much. And so our office tended to do more of that at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you located physically on the Center, what building?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.541515808151754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, it's changed. It's more now that for the women, you know, true equality, I read it somewhere and I don't know who I read it from, but true equality is when the people of equal ability get to have the same chance for the job. And for women and I suspect for a lot of minorities, it's not equal ability. You have to be vastly superior before you can be considered for the job, and there's still a lot of that. It's not equal ability, so you have to be more capable than your competition. If you're equally capable, then chances are you're not going to get it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had opportunities for advancement since you've been here. Surely, hopefully, they don't still see you as the co-op?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they don't see me as the co-op. Yes, I've had some opportunities. Most of the women that have advanced, it helps if you're more aggressive. You don't have to be but it helps a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's still mainly men at Dryden, or are the numbers starting to shift to where there are more women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's still mainly men. There's a few women, but it's still primarily men. The women who are at the, what would be considered more the senior management level, are definitely more aggressive than a lot of women are. It's not to say there's anything bad about it, their personalities are just much more aggressive than most of the other women are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the engineering field? Do you have more colleagues that are females now than you've had before, or do you see that number increasing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.717580706328176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's usually not the way we do it here. Like most places, somebody says they're going to retire and then they retire and then they decide, well, son of a gun, they did retire. Now we've got to get somebody in that job. There's a tendency to do that, but there's enough work going on that you don't want to double up on this one particular area in essentially a teacher-student type mode, and so you wind up with the person leaving and then the next guy that comes in picks it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell us about other projects that you've worked on. You mentioned the SR-71. Did something follow that was as exciting as that one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked on the F-111 Mission Adaptive Wing [MAW]. That was fun. It was a big project. That was a lot of fun. It was another one to do on the F-111. It wasn't the MAW at that time, but it was more base drag, more looking at ways to alleviate base drag. So it was interesting.\\n\\n The MAW was—it was a pretty big project, and I wound up being the technical chairman of the committee of the last presentation they had for the MAW, and that was interesting, working with all the different people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the first time you had done something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It involved getting them all to get their papers written. A lot of nagging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mother hen type of thing."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.24175634036464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked on the F-111 Mission Adaptive Wing [MAW]. That was fun. It was a big project. That was a lot of fun. It was another one to do on the F-111. It wasn't the MAW at that time, but it was more base drag, more looking at ways to alleviate base drag. So it was interesting.\\n\\n The MAW was—it was a pretty big project, and I wound up being the technical chairman of the committee of the last presentation they had for the MAW, and that was interesting, working with all the different people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the first time you had done something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It involved getting them all to get their papers written. A lot of nagging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mother hen type of thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That's what the technical chairman winds up doing a lot of, because you have to get the papers all together, you have to get the presentations all together. They all have to come around at the same time. And it's checking up, \"How are you doing on this? Do you need any help? What are the problems you're having?\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a time period that you had to have all that done?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.824173711516266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It involved getting them all to get their papers written. A lot of nagging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mother hen type of thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That's what the technical chairman winds up doing a lot of, because you have to get the papers all together, you have to get the presentations all together. They all have to come around at the same time. And it's checking up, \"How are you doing on this? Do you need any help? What are the problems you're having?\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a time period that you had to have all that done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We had a time period, so you mapped it all out. This is when the symposium is going to be held. Okay, so this is when everything has to be done, and this is what has to be done, and you just set up dates by when you need to meet these certain deadlines, otherwise you aren't going to make it at the end. We made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to travel and do presentations about some of the work that you were working on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.24908190168474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That's what the technical chairman winds up doing a lot of, because you have to get the papers all together, you have to get the presentations all together. They all have to come around at the same time. And it's checking up, \"How are you doing on this? Do you need any help? What are the problems you're having?\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a time period that you had to have all that done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We had a time period, so you mapped it all out. This is when the symposium is going to be held. Okay, so this is when everything has to be done, and this is what has to be done, and you just set up dates by when you need to meet these certain deadlines, otherwise you aren't going to make it at the end. We made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to travel and do presentations about some of the work that you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as much. There wasn't as much traveling as there is now. I did do some presentations at groups, but not as much as happens now. Probably about the last five years or so, it seems like they've been traveling a lot. I think that's going to end, too, because the travel money is getting tighter. NASA, to me, appears to be in—we’re in another change, and what's going to be happening after the change, nobody's really quite sure, and it's really traumatic because the old ways, the old days, are gone and we aren't sure what the new days are going to be like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thinking about those older days, is there a project or a time period that you reflect on as being one of your favorites since you've been here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.721202112983044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We had a time period, so you mapped it all out. This is when the symposium is going to be held. Okay, so this is when everything has to be done, and this is what has to be done, and you just set up dates by when you need to meet these certain deadlines, otherwise you aren't going to make it at the end. We made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to travel and do presentations about some of the work that you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as much. There wasn't as much traveling as there is now. I did do some presentations at groups, but not as much as happens now. Probably about the last five years or so, it seems like they've been traveling a lot. I think that's going to end, too, because the travel money is getting tighter. NASA, to me, appears to be in—we’re in another change, and what's going to be happening after the change, nobody's really quite sure, and it's really traumatic because the old ways, the old days, are gone and we aren't sure what the new days are going to be like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thinking about those older days, is there a project or a time period that you reflect on as being one of your favorites since you've been here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the SR-71. That was a lot of fun. You had to go down to this separate hangar because you had to keep it in a secret hangar, so you had to have all the badges to get in there. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to witness the flight testing of that as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.245780125536716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as much. There wasn't as much traveling as there is now. I did do some presentations at groups, but not as much as happens now. Probably about the last five years or so, it seems like they've been traveling a lot. I think that's going to end, too, because the travel money is getting tighter. NASA, to me, appears to be in—we’re in another change, and what's going to be happening after the change, nobody's really quite sure, and it's really traumatic because the old ways, the old days, are gone and we aren't sure what the new days are going to be like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thinking about those older days, is there a project or a time period that you reflect on as being one of your favorites since you've been here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the SR-71. That was a lot of fun. You had to go down to this separate hangar because you had to keep it in a secret hangar, so you had to have all the badges to get in there. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to witness the flight testing of that as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. You sat in the control room and you'd see what was going on. Strip charts were really advancing by then so you had a lot of strip charts you could look at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were a lot of people in the control rooms at the time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.828644583929685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the SR-71. That was a lot of fun. You had to go down to this separate hangar because you had to keep it in a secret hangar, so you had to have all the badges to get in there. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to witness the flight testing of that as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. You sat in the control room and you'd see what was going on. Strip charts were really advancing by then so you had a lot of strip charts you could look at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were a lot of people in the control rooms at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Actually, there were quite a few. It's people on the project, so I don't know how many would have been in there. I don't know, ten, twelve, fifteen. I don't know. There was quite a few in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to see what they were doing or were you so focused on what you were doing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.365160648810761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. You sat in the control room and you'd see what was going on. Strip charts were really advancing by then so you had a lot of strip charts you could look at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were a lot of people in the control rooms at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Actually, there were quite a few. It's people on the project, so I don't know how many would have been in there. I don't know, ten, twelve, fifteen. I don't know. There was quite a few in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to see what they were doing or were you so focused on what you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually you were focused on what you were doing, because your purpose at the strip chart was to see, how is your data? Are they getting the data you need? Are they getting the point you want? Is your instrumentation working okay? That was your purpose of being in there, so you could check to see when your point was taken. And because the flights were so long, you kept track of when your points and they only processed certain parts of the tape. They didn't process the whole, I think they were like three-hour flights. They didn't process the whole flight then because you didn't need it. Nothing was there that you were interested in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a time that you thought maybe this wasn't a good decision for you to be here, some time frustrating that you just maybe wished that you could move on some place?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.850178498678623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Actually, there were quite a few. It's people on the project, so I don't know how many would have been in there. I don't know, ten, twelve, fifteen. I don't know. There was quite a few in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to see what they were doing or were you so focused on what you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually you were focused on what you were doing, because your purpose at the strip chart was to see, how is your data? Are they getting the data you need? Are they getting the point you want? Is your instrumentation working okay? That was your purpose of being in there, so you could check to see when your point was taken. And because the flights were so long, you kept track of when your points and they only processed certain parts of the tape. They didn't process the whole, I think they were like three-hour flights. They didn't process the whole flight then because you didn't need it. Nothing was there that you were interested in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a time that you thought maybe this wasn't a good decision for you to be here, some time frustrating that you just maybe wished that you could move on some place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think everybody runs into that. But I didn't move on at that time. It might have been better, it might not have. Most of the people that move on—a lot of the people that move on, move on within about the first, probably about the first five or six years, because they're starting to get enough experience, they're starting to move up in whatever they want to do, and then it becomes clear at that point whether the path they want to take is going to be open. And so if it's not, then that's when they decide whether they're going to stay and take the ultimate path or whether they're going to move on and try and find another path."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about your silver Snoopy."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.51873888725756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think everybody runs into that. But I didn't move on at that time. It might have been better, it might not have. Most of the people that move on—a lot of the people that move on, move on within about the first, probably about the first five or six years, because they're starting to get enough experience, they're starting to move up in whatever they want to do, and then it becomes clear at that point whether the path they want to take is going to be open. And so if it's not, then that's when they decide whether they're going to stay and take the ultimate path or whether they're going to move on and try and find another path."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about your silver Snoopy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did work on the Space Shuttle. It was the first one. Was it the Enterprise?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Enterprise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mind's going here. So it was just basically the drop test, and I worked on the airspeed part of that, so that was interesting, too. I enjoyed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was something completely different."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.909709874730622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did work on the Space Shuttle. It was the first one. Was it the Enterprise?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Enterprise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mind's going here. So it was just basically the drop test, and I worked on the airspeed part of that, so that was interesting, too. I enjoyed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was something completely different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your first thoughts when you were assigned to that project and learned what you were going to be doing in this totally different aircraft?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.344122083034025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mind's going here. So it was just basically the drop test, and I worked on the airspeed part of that, so that was interesting, too. I enjoyed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was something completely different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your first thoughts when you were assigned to that project and learned what you were going to be doing in this totally different aircraft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, naturally, since you have the old naysayers here, there was a lot of discussion about, they can't do it, they'll never be able to land it on a given spot, can't do it. And obviously, they did do it. It was pretty exciting because you weren't sure what was going to happen, whether it really was going to do it or not.\\n\\n So it was exciting, to see that happening. You weren't sure when it went off the plane if the whole thing wasn't going to crash into the tail and knock both planes out of the sky. You can do all your studies, but when they finally actually do something, that's when you find out whether your studies are right or not. So it was exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you working on those studies before they actually tried it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.82680231448225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your first thoughts when you were assigned to that project and learned what you were going to be doing in this totally different aircraft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, naturally, since you have the old naysayers here, there was a lot of discussion about, they can't do it, they'll never be able to land it on a given spot, can't do it. And obviously, they did do it. It was pretty exciting because you weren't sure what was going to happen, whether it really was going to do it or not.\\n\\n So it was exciting, to see that happening. You weren't sure when it went off the plane if the whole thing wasn't going to crash into the tail and knock both planes out of the sky. You can do all your studies, but when they finally actually do something, that's when you find out whether your studies are right or not. So it was exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you working on those studies before they actually tried it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure. I probably spent, I don't know, maybe two years on that total."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to watch the testing as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.363113682758056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, naturally, since you have the old naysayers here, there was a lot of discussion about, they can't do it, they'll never be able to land it on a given spot, can't do it. And obviously, they did do it. It was pretty exciting because you weren't sure what was going to happen, whether it really was going to do it or not.\\n\\n So it was exciting, to see that happening. You weren't sure when it went off the plane if the whole thing wasn't going to crash into the tail and knock both planes out of the sky. You can do all your studies, but when they finally actually do something, that's when you find out whether your studies are right or not. So it was exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you working on those studies before they actually tried it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure. I probably spent, I don't know, maybe two years on that total."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to watch the testing as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was up in the control room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been so exciting."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9590152030645065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure. I probably spent, I don't know, maybe two years on that total."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to watch the testing as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was up in the control room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been so exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. We got some data off the first flight, so the Space Shuttle was coming back to see if it was agreeing, so it was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you seen it land here as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.6211280034050075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was up in the control room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been so exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. We got some data off the first flight, so the Space Shuttle was coming back to see if it was agreeing, so it was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you seen it land here as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From an actual flight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.24569778156112, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. We got some data off the first flight, so the Space Shuttle was coming back to see if it was agreeing, so it was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you seen it land here as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From an actual flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Almost saw it take off. My husband actually got the trip for that. He worked on the Shuttle as well. But they aborted that flight, so he didn't get to see it launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe one day soon."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.717441979512355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From an actual flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Almost saw it take off. My husband actually got the trip for that. He worked on the Shuttle as well. But they aborted that flight, so he didn't get to see it launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe one day soon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe one day. I did see an Apollo launch, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working here at the time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1304910883470605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Almost saw it take off. My husband actually got the trip for that. He worked on the Shuttle as well. But they aborted that flight, so he didn't get to see it launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe one day soon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe one day. I did see an Apollo launch, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working here at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The director at that time had connections at Kennedy, so a number of us planned a big trip back to Kennedy to see the Apollo launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, I didn't see Saturn [rocket], but I understand watching a Saturn V launch was pretty impressive."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.589434542607845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe one day. I did see an Apollo launch, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working here at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The director at that time had connections at Kennedy, so a number of us planned a big trip back to Kennedy to see the Apollo launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, I didn't see Saturn [rocket], but I understand watching a Saturn V launch was pretty impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I almost didn't go either. They kept delaying it and delaying it and we kept staying and staying, and finally it went off, so it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember which one it was?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.099371714008716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The director at that time had connections at Kennedy, so a number of us planned a big trip back to Kennedy to see the Apollo launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, I didn't see Saturn [rocket], but I understand watching a Saturn V launch was pretty impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I almost didn't go either. They kept delaying it and delaying it and we kept staying and staying, and finally it went off, so it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember which one it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. [Apollo 17]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a few years back. That's understandable."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.554857460009684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I almost didn't go either. They kept delaying it and delaying it and we kept staying and staying, and finally it went off, so it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember which one it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. [Apollo 17]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a few years back. That's understandable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember which one it was now. It was one of the night launches, though. I've got some nice pictures of it launching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you keep up with the LLRV from where it left here? I know that that was about the time that you were finishing school."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.060952733344093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. [Apollo 17]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a few years back. That's understandable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember which one it was now. It was one of the night launches, though. I've got some nice pictures of it launching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you keep up with the LLRV from where it left here? I know that that was about the time that you were finishing school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't really keep up with it after that. I'm not sure anybody really did much keeping up with it. Once it leaves here it's hard to be involved with it anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Space Shuttle and also I believe you worked on the X-29. Is that correct?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.62328081482677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember which one it was now. It was one of the night launches, though. I've got some nice pictures of it launching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you keep up with the LLRV from where it left here? I know that that was about the time that you were finishing school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't really keep up with it after that. I'm not sure anybody really did much keeping up with it. Once it leaves here it's hard to be involved with it anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Space Shuttle and also I believe you worked on the X-29. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Not as much, but I did work on it, yes. I did a parameter estimation study on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it different, or was it different, from the other projects that you worked on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.248089794251967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't really keep up with it after that. I'm not sure anybody really did much keeping up with it. Once it leaves here it's hard to be involved with it anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Space Shuttle and also I believe you worked on the X-29. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Not as much, but I did work on it, yes. I did a parameter estimation study on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it different, or was it different, from the other projects that you worked on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was actually more a paper study. I didn't have an actual experiment on the plane, so that was different. Usually I had an experiment on the plane, but this one I didn't. Some of these things just kind of run together in your mind, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Sandra. You have any—\n\nJust thinking back, the time you were here and just what was going on in the country and the dress code the women followed more so then than they do now. Have you noticed a lot of changes as far as how you're allowed to dress, or was there an actual dress code at that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.942321993613296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Not as much, but I did work on it, yes. I did a parameter estimation study on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it different, or was it different, from the other projects that you worked on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was actually more a paper study. I didn't have an actual experiment on the plane, so that was different. Usually I had an experiment on the plane, but this one I didn't. Some of these things just kind of run together in your mind, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Sandra. You have any—\n\nJust thinking back, the time you were here and just what was going on in the country and the dress code the women followed more so then than they do now. Have you noticed a lot of changes as far as how you're allowed to dress, or was there an actual dress code at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a written dress code, but, yes, there was a dress code. You wore skirts to work, dresses. You didn't wear slacks. You just didn't wear slacks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that make it hard to do your job sometimes? I mean, if you're having to go out and check out planes."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.87124664577037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as much. I was so happy to get it out [laughter]. I have found out more about the first expresses that were published. I could add that in there. I haven't really thought that much about it. Like I said, it took me a long time to get it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long? Estimate the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably about three years. And I got down to where I was almost ready to go. I was trying to make an SP [Special Publication] because it didn't fit in any other categories, so I thought it would be a special publication, and I couldn't get approval from a supervisor that I needed to get approval to have it as an SP, as it was. So I sent it off to headquarters. I saw an article about the history office back there, so I just sent it off to the headquarters history guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of feedback are you getting back?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.523607384189299, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably about three years. And I got down to where I was almost ready to go. I was trying to make an SP [Special Publication] because it didn't fit in any other categories, so I thought it would be a special publication, and I couldn't get approval from a supervisor that I needed to get approval to have it as an SP, as it was. So I sent it off to headquarters. I saw an article about the history office back there, so I just sent it off to the headquarters history guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of feedback are you getting back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Positive. I got a lot of positive feedback on that one. One of the best-selling ones I've ever written. [Laughter] People actually say they read it and they like it. One of the engineers who I talked to a lot about it says he—he hasn't told me, he's told a friend of mine, who then told me, that he thinks it's a really great paper, he really enjoys all the stuff in it, and he uses it a lot.\\n\\n So I've got a lot of feedback from it. The Embry-Riddle [Aeronautical University] used it for one of their courses. I have no idea what they used it for but they used it for one of their courses. I think it probably would have been for the data reduction section that had the film recorders, and it's been referenced by a guy who wrote about film recorders. He was writing about that. It's been very pleasant. I've been very pleased with the reaction I got from people. I've got a lot of positive comments from people about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we've certainly learned a lot from it. Some of the women that you've talked about, when we talked to them about it, were very pleased that that information has gotten out. Do you have another project in the works, or are you planning another writing project?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.248452649099221, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of feedback are you getting back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Positive. I got a lot of positive feedback on that one. One of the best-selling ones I've ever written. [Laughter] People actually say they read it and they like it. One of the engineers who I talked to a lot about it says he—he hasn't told me, he's told a friend of mine, who then told me, that he thinks it's a really great paper, he really enjoys all the stuff in it, and he uses it a lot.\\n\\n So I've got a lot of feedback from it. The Embry-Riddle [Aeronautical University] used it for one of their courses. I have no idea what they used it for but they used it for one of their courses. I think it probably would have been for the data reduction section that had the film recorders, and it's been referenced by a guy who wrote about film recorders. He was writing about that. It's been very pleasant. I've been very pleased with the reaction I got from people. I've got a lot of positive comments from people about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we've certainly learned a lot from it. Some of the women that you've talked about, when we talked to them about it, were very pleased that that information has gotten out. Do you have another project in the works, or are you planning another writing project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I haven't thought of another one. Like I said, if I hadn't sent it to headquarters, it would not have been published, because the supervisor that needed to sign it simply was not going to sign off to get it published."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, at least you have an avenue now to go with if you have another idea."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.66093442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—the group that you're involved with. Are there any other areas that you can think of that—or projects, any anecdotes of being at Dryden? How many years have you been here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty-eight. No, I can't really think of anything in particular. We had the old cafeteria. The old cafeteria was in 4800. It was a big shock to people when they had to walk outside the building to the cafeteria. It was bad news as far as they were concerned. A lot of grumbling about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Before, you didn't have to go outside. You'd just go down to the cafeteria and get your ice cream cones and they would scoop out the ice cream for you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that kind of a time at lunch, too, that everybody saw everybody else, when the cafeteria was there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They'd be in the tech briefs, they'd be in the pre- and post-flight briefs. But no, you didn't work that closely. Most of the people didn't work that closely with the pilots. The crew was obviously the ones that worked really close with the pilots, they worked really close with. They knew who you were, you could talk to them, they were friendly enough, but I didn't work that closely and most of the engineers didn't work that closely with them.\\n\\n If you were involved with a simulator, then you would have worked closely with the pilots because they would have come down to run the simulator so then you would have gotten to know them better, but I didn't work with the simulators. Otherwise, you just wouldn't have a chance to be with them. But that's why it's been really hard for the Center because a lot of the flight projects have gone away. The pilots are really dismal because there's not that much—compared to what there used to be to fly, there's not that much to fly anymore, so it's been hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we certainly hope for your sake, on a personal basis and professional basis, that before you decide to end your career at Dryden that it'll swing again and allow some more excitement for your work on some projects that you really will enjoy doing before you decide not to do this anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that would be nice, but I suspect I'll retire before then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you'll have opportunity to write more books."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. I can spend more time writing books and researching. I did enjoy doing that one. It was interesting, once I got into it. It's always hard for me to get started, get the words down and get started in those thoughts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it was definitely different than any of the rest of the reports that you had done."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that would be nice, but I suspect I'll retire before then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you'll have opportunity to write more books."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. I can spend more time writing books and researching. I did enjoy doing that one. It was interesting, once I got into it. It's always hard for me to get started, get the words down and get started in those thoughts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it was definitely different than any of the rest of the reports that you had done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a different way of writing. The reports used to be quite structured in how they wanted them written, even down to the tense you were supposed to use. And so you got used to that because they changed it all, so you might as well start out with that. It was a change to go to a different way of writing. It was a completely different style."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we wish you luck on the next one and look forward to reading it, whatever it may be."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. I can spend more time writing books and researching. I did enjoy doing that one. It was interesting, once I got into it. It's always hard for me to get started, get the words down and get started in those thoughts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it was definitely different than any of the rest of the reports that you had done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a different way of writing. The reports used to be quite structured in how they wanted them written, even down to the tense you were supposed to use. And so you got used to that because they changed it all, so you might as well start out with that. It was a change to go to a different way of writing. It was a completely different style."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we wish you luck on the next one and look forward to reading it, whatever it may be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you going to write one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'd like to. We are finishing a book that we worked with the author on the Shuttle-Mir project, so we've had our hands at helping to write and organize and do whatever. But our main job right now is just to gather the history before it's gone, or before people don't want to talk about it, so we're hoping to stay with our project as long as we can."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01008:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a different way of writing. The reports used to be quite structured in how they wanted them written, even down to the tense you were supposed to use. And so you got used to that because they changed it all, so you might as well start out with that. It was a change to go to a different way of writing. It was a completely different style."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we wish you luck on the next one and look forward to reading it, whatever it may be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you going to write one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'd like to. We are finishing a book that we worked with the author on the Shuttle-Mir project, so we've had our hands at helping to write and organize and do whatever. But our main job right now is just to gather the history before it's gone, or before people don't want to talk about it, so we're hoping to stay with our project as long as we can."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the numbers are dwindling rapidly, as far as talking to the ones here in the fifties, the forties. They're starting to disappear, so time is not on your side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that may be something you can help pick up with. But we wish you luck in the future, and thank you again for talking with us today."}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00009:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the fact that it was the Navy that didn't want to put sprinklers in that building. They were afraid they would leak.\n\nSome irony there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think that is all I have. Jessie, did you have anything else that you wanted to follow up on?\n\nNo, I think you both did such a good job anticipating all the questions that I kept jotting down and you answered them. So I guess—."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw your cat was helping you, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know. It's lunch time. But I just want to thank you guys for providing this really important service to our veterans and sharing your stories with us. And it's obvious that you both really enjoy the work that you do. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thanks for giving us a chance to share. It's important. We're glad somebody's remembering this fire. Mike's been asking me for months: \"What are they doing about the fire? What are they doing about the fire?\" So thank you for letting us participate. We appreciate it.\n\nAnd if you come up with anything else, you know where to find me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yes. I'll reach out to you once the meeting is over. If either of you have any photos that you want to share, you know, the fire or just of yourselves that we can post along with your interview, that would be great, also."}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00009:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw your cat was helping you, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know. It's lunch time. But I just want to thank you guys for providing this really important service to our veterans and sharing your stories with us. And it's obvious that you both really enjoy the work that you do. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thanks for giving us a chance to share. It's important. We're glad somebody's remembering this fire. Mike's been asking me for months: \"What are they doing about the fire? What are they doing about the fire?\" So thank you for letting us participate. We appreciate it.\n\nAnd if you come up with anything else, you know where to find me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yes. I'll reach out to you once the meeting is over. If either of you have any photos that you want to share, you know, the fire or just of yourselves that we can post along with your interview, that would be great, also."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I think you have access to all the photos I have. Mike might have some that the center doesn't have. I know you do.\n\nOkay. I turned all that stuff over to Dave, which reminds me, he's probably already told you, but he had cassettes of the calls for the whole period, the fire calls. And a few years ago we had a friend who was an audio engineer. And we transferred them to CD. And so Dave's got that, and I'm sure some of it can be really hard to hear. But I'm sure technology has improved enough now that, you know, if you can get him to burn you copies of those CDs and send them to you, you've got something you can run them through and improve them. Improve them just that much more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you have given us so much information today and just, you know, for things to follow up on. This is extremely helpful. We really appreciate both of you taking time out today to talk to us."}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00009:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I think you have access to all the photos I have. Mike might have some that the center doesn't have. I know you do.\n\nOkay. I turned all that stuff over to Dave, which reminds me, he's probably already told you, but he had cassettes of the calls for the whole period, the fire calls. And a few years ago we had a friend who was an audio engineer. And we transferred them to CD. And so Dave's got that, and I'm sure some of it can be really hard to hear. But I'm sure technology has improved enough now that, you know, if you can get him to burn you copies of those CDs and send them to you, you've got something you can run them through and improve them. Improve them just that much more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you have given us so much information today and just, you know, for things to follow up on. This is extremely helpful. We really appreciate both of you taking time out today to talk to us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. Yeah.\n\nDave Dubowski is your man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's a good one.\n\nYeah, he's a good guy.\n\nYeah. And he's the one that comes and checks our building. He's the closest to us, too, which is interesting that he's the one that keeps us safe. So, yeah.\n\nAll right. Thank you, guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you so much. And, yes, I'll reach out to you here shortly. All right. Thank you. Bye."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00494:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 40.60459783251505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was received very well. We testified before Congress, and we briefed it widely to the National Research Council, the President’s Science Advisor, and a variety of other groups.\\n\\n There were several things that came out of it. One was NASA’s Mission to Planet Earth; another was the Office of Exploration. It also resulted in more emphasis on long-range exploration within the agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to help implement any of those plans and initiatives, or was your report issued about the time that you were getting ready to leave the agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was able to follow those initiatives for a while. I spent time with the technology division, working with them to understand what our report meant to them. And I worked quite a bit with Mission to Planet Earth.\\n\\n But I left the agency shortly thereafter. Most work that I did after the report was issued was setting up the Office of Exploration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You returned to Stanford [University, Stanford, California] after you left the agency, and since then you’ve been active in a number of areas. We’d like to talk to you about some of those areas, but before we do, we would like to know if you could possibly tell us what your most challenging milestone was while you were working with the space program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my biggest challenge was just trying to breathe right after the engines ignited on my first launch! It’s hard to say what my most challenging milestone was. The space program is wonderful in that it is a series of challenges and a series of very interesting and very rewarding experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you find it difficult to pick out one that you would consider the most significant accomplishment that you made while you were at NASA? Is there something you would like to consider that you left as a legacy for others to see?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00494:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 41.78288648057227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was able to follow those initiatives for a while. I spent time with the technology division, working with them to understand what our report meant to them. And I worked quite a bit with Mission to Planet Earth.\\n\\n But I left the agency shortly thereafter. Most work that I did after the report was issued was setting up the Office of Exploration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You returned to Stanford [University, Stanford, California] after you left the agency, and since then you’ve been active in a number of areas. We’d like to talk to you about some of those areas, but before we do, we would like to know if you could possibly tell us what your most challenging milestone was while you were working with the space program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my biggest challenge was just trying to breathe right after the engines ignited on my first launch! It’s hard to say what my most challenging milestone was. The space program is wonderful in that it is a series of challenges and a series of very interesting and very rewarding experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you find it difficult to pick out one that you would consider the most significant accomplishment that you made while you were at NASA? Is there something you would like to consider that you left as a legacy for others to see?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, because I think it depends on the way that you interpret that question. Certainly my most significant legacy will be that I was the first American woman to go into space. That’s very rewarding for me. And the more time that passes, the more I appreciate that.\\n\\n But some of things that I’m very proud of are my work on the robot arm, my work as a CapCom [Capsule Communicator], of course my two spaceflights, and the report that I did for NASA Headquarters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As I mentioned, you went back to Stanford and got very active, of course, working there. You also were very active in a number of other areas, a lot of them dealing with children. We’d like you to comment on some of those. For instance, KidSat. Can you tell us how you got involved with that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00494:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 23.24780746924595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us how you were able to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wrote the first one shortly after my second flight. It was called\\n\\n To Space and Back\\n\\n , and it’s about what it’s like to go on a Space Shuttle flight. I wanted to write it for kids—ten-, eleven-, twelve-, thirteen-, fourteen-year-old kids—because I’d been doing a lot of speaking, and it was really obvious that kids are fascinated by the space program. They love hearing about astronauts, about launch, about weightlessness. The book is a good way to encourage their interest in science and teach them a little bit while they’re not looking.\\n\\n I got together with an old friend from high school, who was a writer, and she and I co-authored that book. It came out in 1986. A few years after I left NASA, a different publisher called me up out of the blue and asked me to do another book for kids—this one on the Voyager spacecraft. I liked the idea and began collaborating with a different co-author, also an old friend from childhood, on that book for Random House, She and I have since written three books with a fourth one is coming out in fall of ’03. All are for kids around middle-school age:\\n\\n The Voyager\\n\\n ,\\n\\n The Third Planet: Exploring Earth from Space\\n\\n , and\\n\\n The Mystery of Mars\\n\\n . The one that’s due out in 2003 is called\\n\\n Exploring the Solar System\\n\\n ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of new ways to inform and educate, you became part of a Space.com era. How did this opportunity come about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00494:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.097129587443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was really by chance. I was at University of California, San Diego, teaching a physics course. It was spring of 1999. Lou Dobbs retired from CNN [Cable News Network] and announced out of the blue that he was starting Space.com.\\n\\n I was fascinated with the idea and talked to him find out more about it. He said, “If you’re interested, and you want to hear more about it, why don’t you come meet with me next time you’re in New York, [New York].”\\n\\n I did. As it turned out, I was going to New York three or four weeks later. The more that I talked to him, the more I liked the idea behind it. The vision at the time was to create a website that catered to everyone who had an interest in space—for whatever reason. It would be fore kids interested in the space program, people who loved science fiction, the commercial aerospace community—everyone who had an interest.\\n\\n I loved the idea of it because I knew, living out in California, how hard it was to find out what was going on back in Houston and back at KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida]. Just try to do that reading your local newspaper! You just can’t keep up with the space program. So, having a website where you can just log on and get all the information about where was the Shuttle on its way to the pad, or what were the astronauts doing in orbit that day, seemed like a really good idea to me. He basically convinced me to join the company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you with the company?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was with the company for about a year and a half. I didn’t move to New York. I was commuting—staying in a hotel during the week to work there. I joined the Board of Directors right away and was initially the Executive Vice President for Strategic Planning. Shortly thereafter, I became the president of the company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a difference of strategic planning for NASA. Now you’re doing it for a website."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was quite different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Put some of that same strategy into the strategic planning."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00494:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.55236620827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was with the company for about a year and a half. I didn’t move to New York. I was commuting—staying in a hotel during the week to work there. I joined the Board of Directors right away and was initially the Executive Vice President for Strategic Planning. Shortly thereafter, I became the president of the company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a difference of strategic planning for NASA. Now you’re doing it for a website."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was quite different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Put some of that same strategy into the strategic planning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you leave?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00494:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.5026291203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was quite different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Put some of that same strategy into the strategic planning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left for a variety of reasons, actually. One was that I had only taken temporary leave from the university and wanted to get back to it. (I had retained my position at the university.) Also, New York City is a long way from San Diego, where I live; I did not want to move from San Diego! I was doing a lot of commuting, and did not want to move to New York. And it was pretty clear that Space.com was not going to be opening a West Coast office anytime soon.\\n\\n I had wanted to get back to teaching and research, but the last couple months that I was there, I started thinking more and more about doing something that was focused more on girls and education than Space.com was. I started talking with my friends and several of us decided to form Imaginary Lines, Inc. That became part of the impetus to leave Space.com to get back out to California and start up Imaginary Lines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about Imaginary Lines. We’re all very interested in how that moved from an idea into the reality that it is today."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00494:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3914700000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The timing was right. There wasn’t any one specific thing that triggered it. Maybe I had just lived long enough. I thought that this was something that was really worth using my name and using the visibility that I could bring to it. It felt worthwhile. When we started seeing the reaction of girls and their parents to our programs, it started feeding on itself, and we drew our energy and encouragement from them.\\n\\n When we started the company, there were a lot of people that we talked to, a lot of people who said, “This is not a business. There aren’t any girls interested in math and science. Where are you going to find people to come to your festivals? Where are you going to find these girls? All you need to do is look around the workforce. There aren’t very many women in engineering, so there can’t be many girls who are interested in math.”\\n\\n We said, “That’s not right. We know that’s wrong.” So we’ve taken some pleasure in proving them wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you’ve given them a tangible person to touch, whereas before it was just an image. So they can do that. It’s got to be very rewarding for you to be able to feel the excitement from those girls."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s very rewarding to feel their excitement and to see their reaction to the women professionals we bring to the festivals. One of the things we’re trying to do is raise the visibility of other women scientists and engineers on a local, personal level for these girls, and then on regional and national levels, too. We want to make the world in general, and twelve-year-old girls in particular, aware of the women who are actively involved in science and engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your life certainly is full of balancing education and advancement and enrichment for young girls, and it sure keeps you busy from moment to moment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little too busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what a challenge, from talking to students on a college level, with physics, and then coming back and talking to elementary school students on a level that they can talk, too."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00494:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7683000000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s very rewarding to feel their excitement and to see their reaction to the women professionals we bring to the festivals. One of the things we’re trying to do is raise the visibility of other women scientists and engineers on a local, personal level for these girls, and then on regional and national levels, too. We want to make the world in general, and twelve-year-old girls in particular, aware of the women who are actively involved in science and engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your life certainly is full of balancing education and advancement and enrichment for young girls, and it sure keeps you busy from moment to moment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little too busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what a challenge, from talking to students on a college level, with physics, and then coming back and talking to elementary school students on a level that they can talk, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’d be surprised. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we finish today, I was going to ask Sandra and Jennifer if they had any other questions that we hadn’t had a chance to ask you while we had you in these sessions.\n\nI had a question. When you went out to Headquarters, what was it like working out there? And could tell us how different it was from working at JSC? Can you make some comparisons between the two?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00494:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little too busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what a challenge, from talking to students on a college level, with physics, and then coming back and talking to elementary school students on a level that they can talk, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’d be surprised. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we finish today, I was going to ask Sandra and Jennifer if they had any other questions that we hadn’t had a chance to ask you while we had you in these sessions.\n\nI had a question. When you went out to Headquarters, what was it like working out there? And could tell us how different it was from working at JSC? Can you make some comparisons between the two?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not on tape. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe a different question. We were talking with an astronaut earlier this week who kept referring to how the astronaut corps changed over time, from when he started in 1978. He was talking about how, in the beginning of the Space Shuttle program, astronauts, in particular, were very involved in all the different processes, and working with the contractors. I’m wondering if it changed at all by the time that you had gone up on your second mission, and [if] you could talk about that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00494:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you kidding? [Laughter] No, I think I’d only add one thing that I don’t think we touched on this last time. There was one person who was very important to me at JSC, and it was Carolyn [L.] Huntoon. When I was going through the application process, Carolyn was on the selection committee. At the time, she was a Ph.D. biochemist in charge of a small group, but was the highest-ranking technical woman at JSC—therefore deemed to be the expert on everything related to women at JSC. She was the only woman on the selection committee, and it was a large selection committee. Once we arrived, she became almost the de facto liaison to all of the women astronauts; she became a very good friend to all of us and a very important person—especially in helping us steer our way through the first couple of years that we were there.\\n\\n If we ever had any problems, we all knew that we could call Carolyn, and we did! This was even as she was rising up through the ranks at JSC and becoming a more and more important person. She was always the person that we could call, and she would always help us solve any problem, no matter how small.\\n\\n So she’s one of the very few people, that I think I owe my career to. She had a long and distinguished career at NASA that had an unfortunate end. If you haven’t talked to her yet, you definitely should."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have, and she’s mentioned as well that—we were talking about the selection committee and her opportunity to be on there when women were made part of the system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would hate to think what it would have been like for the six women in our class if she hadn’t been there before us, been part of the selection committee, and then been there for us once we arrived. She made our lives much, much easier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. I’m sure she’ll be glad to hear that as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll conclude for the day. Thank you so much, again, for taking the time."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00217:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 32.07109963922572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Ed was in my branch. What you call a character."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was certainly an interesting guy to talk to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of a kind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m struck by how many one-of-a-kind characters there were in flight operations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It attracted people like that. It attracted very strong-willed people. Gene Kranz used to tell us that one thing about this job is you can’t fade into the woodwork. You’ve got to get out there and get it done. So people like Ed, who didn’t mind—Ed was very competent as well, but didn’t mind standing up and getting things done, excelled at this work. He was a little bit of a character.\\n\\n Did you talk the John [S.] Llewellyn any?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we did, several times."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00217:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.523444043584135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of a kind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m struck by how many one-of-a-kind characters there were in flight operations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It attracted people like that. It attracted very strong-willed people. Gene Kranz used to tell us that one thing about this job is you can’t fade into the woodwork. You’ve got to get out there and get it done. So people like Ed, who didn’t mind—Ed was very competent as well, but didn’t mind standing up and getting things done, excelled at this work. He was a little bit of a character.\\n\\n Did you talk the John [S.] Llewellyn any?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we did, several times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s a whole lot of a character. [Laughs] We all hope they throw away the mold when they make them like him. He’s the guy that hollered “Liftoff” on that Gemini when it hadn’t lifted off and got everybody thinking we had liftoff. But John’s a character."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we certainly get a little bit of sense of this personality in here, but we’ve heard a lot of stories about him."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00217:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 38.359382270649036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It attracted people like that. It attracted very strong-willed people. Gene Kranz used to tell us that one thing about this job is you can’t fade into the woodwork. You’ve got to get out there and get it done. So people like Ed, who didn’t mind—Ed was very competent as well, but didn’t mind standing up and getting things done, excelled at this work. He was a little bit of a character.\\n\\n Did you talk the John [S.] Llewellyn any?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we did, several times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s a whole lot of a character. [Laughs] We all hope they throw away the mold when they make them like him. He’s the guy that hollered “Liftoff” on that Gemini when it hadn’t lifted off and got everybody thinking we had liftoff. But John’s a character."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we certainly get a little bit of sense of this personality in here, but we’ve heard a lot of stories about him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the assistant flight director, you had a chance to work with a lot of the different flight directors very closely. So I was wondering if you could comment on some of their different personalities and styles in terms of how they ran the missions and the shifts, and just provide some sort of comparison for us."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00597:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 23, "return_to_go": 109.2972570308528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went back to my day job. [Laughter] I was the general manager of the astronautics in St. Louis. We had the headquarters of the astronautics in Huntington Beach because they had a little more activity at the time, and we worked on the Skylab, setting that thing up, worked on the Harpoon missile. We went to the Navy and got a good start on the Tomahawk missiles and things like that, but not too much space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So someone from NASA came to you and asked you to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The someones were the administrator, Jim [James C.] Fletcher, the deputy administrator, George [M.] Low, and Rocco [A.] Petrone. They twisted my arm to come to Washington and have dinner with them and put it to me. Actually, they sent out a guy who I knew that was one of their headhunters, and he came to me with the guise that he was looking for somebody and who did I think would be good and all that stuff. I saw through him pretty easy. [Laughter] So that's how I got into it, and, you know, it was an easy decision, because, gosh, I took a salary cut from about—I don't remember the details, but $85,000 a year plus promotions, to $37,000 a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was the maximum pay at that time with the government channels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what could have caused you to take that kind of salary cut?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.441279857148485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t really. I didn’t decide where I wanted to go to college for quite a long time after that, because we changed—my mother had no idea what she wanted to do in life. We kept moving around the country, and I changed schools 17 times before I graduated from high school.\\n\\n I really lost confidence in the Oklahoma City [Oklahoma] schools because a woman took my IQ [intelligence quotient], and then she was in the back room for quite some time evaluating what it was. She came out, and she was all excited, and she said, “You just got the highest IQ we’ve ever measured.” Which I don’t think is really right, because I’ve known a lot of very smart people, and a lot of people who do more contributing to my ideas than I do to theirs. I didn’t really believe that. I just lost confidence in the Oklahoma City schools, because if I was the smartest one there’s something wrong there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You impressed them, anyway. You eventually went to MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I finally did eventually go to MIT."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you graduated from MIT you went to Douglas Aircraft [Company] control systems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right, I did. I was looking for somewhere that I could go to school where I wouldn’t be drafted and could contribute, and that’s why I went to Douglas Aircraft Company, primarily because of the drafting. I had known what had happened in the Korean War and I wanted no part of wars if I could avoid it, so that was one way of doing something useful without getting drafted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It looks like you stayed there a couple years."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.823644285720539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I finally did eventually go to MIT."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you graduated from MIT you went to Douglas Aircraft [Company] control systems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right, I did. I was looking for somewhere that I could go to school where I wouldn’t be drafted and could contribute, and that’s why I went to Douglas Aircraft Company, primarily because of the drafting. I had known what had happened in the Korean War and I wanted no part of wars if I could avoid it, so that was one way of doing something useful without getting drafted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It looks like you stayed there a couple years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you went to MIT for graduate work at that point?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.35960476191171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right, I did. I was looking for somewhere that I could go to school where I wouldn’t be drafted and could contribute, and that’s why I went to Douglas Aircraft Company, primarily because of the drafting. I had known what had happened in the Korean War and I wanted no part of wars if I could avoid it, so that was one way of doing something useful without getting drafted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It looks like you stayed there a couple years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you went to MIT for graduate work at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, I did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an idea what you wanted to do and where you wanted to go after that graduate work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 17.066227513235233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you went to MIT for graduate work at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, I did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an idea what you wanted to do and where you wanted to go after that graduate work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was always thinking that I wanted to go where the action was. That’s why I got back into going to MIT."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The action at that point was the space program. Did you feel like that was going to be where the action was?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.073586125816925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, I did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an idea what you wanted to do and where you wanted to go after that graduate work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was always thinking that I wanted to go where the action was. That’s why I got back into going to MIT."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The action at that point was the space program. Did you feel like that was going to be where the action was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. So I was extremely lucky that I had gotten into that, but lucky mostly that not one of the people that I ever worked with ever caused a mission failure. I worked for 44 years in missions to the Moon, and missions to Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, and robotic missions in the group at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. They were all robotic missions, no human missions. Not one of the missions that I worked on failed. I can’t claim credit for that, because if anybody had failed on a mission that I had been working on, it would have failed. Since nobody failed, not one of the missions I worked on failed, which is really remarkable when you consider how many missions actually did fail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s true. Sputnik [Russian satellite] happened in 1957. Were you still at Douglas, or were you at MIT when that happened? Do you remember where you were?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.192873473129916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was always thinking that I wanted to go where the action was. That’s why I got back into going to MIT."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The action at that point was the space program. Did you feel like that was going to be where the action was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. So I was extremely lucky that I had gotten into that, but lucky mostly that not one of the people that I ever worked with ever caused a mission failure. I worked for 44 years in missions to the Moon, and missions to Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, and robotic missions in the group at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. They were all robotic missions, no human missions. Not one of the missions that I worked on failed. I can’t claim credit for that, because if anybody had failed on a mission that I had been working on, it would have failed. Since nobody failed, not one of the missions I worked on failed, which is really remarkable when you consider how many missions actually did fail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s true. Sputnik [Russian satellite] happened in 1957. Were you still at Douglas, or were you at MIT when that happened? Do you remember where you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I was back at MIT."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the reaction at that time at MIT? You said you wanted to go where the action was. Do you remember thinking “That’s it, that’s what I want to do”?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.436526081255462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. So I was extremely lucky that I had gotten into that, but lucky mostly that not one of the people that I ever worked with ever caused a mission failure. I worked for 44 years in missions to the Moon, and missions to Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, and robotic missions in the group at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. They were all robotic missions, no human missions. Not one of the missions that I worked on failed. I can’t claim credit for that, because if anybody had failed on a mission that I had been working on, it would have failed. Since nobody failed, not one of the missions I worked on failed, which is really remarkable when you consider how many missions actually did fail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s true. Sputnik [Russian satellite] happened in 1957. Were you still at Douglas, or were you at MIT when that happened? Do you remember where you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I was back at MIT."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the reaction at that time at MIT? You said you wanted to go where the action was. Do you remember thinking “That’s it, that’s what I want to do”?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I remember that I had to have a secret clearance. I did work for a laboratory where they were doing some military work, even at MIT. That’s when I found out, when I had to have secret clearance, that my name on the birth certificate was different than what my mother had told me my name was, so I had to straighten that out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Right around that time of Sputnik, you were at MIT, and then you went to JPL, to the analytical design group, in 1959."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.818362312506068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I was back at MIT."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the reaction at that time at MIT? You said you wanted to go where the action was. Do you remember thinking “That’s it, that’s what I want to do”?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I remember that I had to have a secret clearance. I did work for a laboratory where they were doing some military work, even at MIT. That’s when I found out, when I had to have secret clearance, that my name on the birth certificate was different than what my mother had told me my name was, so I had to straighten that out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Right around that time of Sputnik, you were at MIT, and then you went to JPL, to the analytical design group, in 1959."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, I did. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you decide to take a job at JPL?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.687069236117853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I remember that I had to have a secret clearance. I did work for a laboratory where they were doing some military work, even at MIT. That’s when I found out, when I had to have secret clearance, that my name on the birth certificate was different than what my mother had told me my name was, so I had to straighten that out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Right around that time of Sputnik, you were at MIT, and then you went to JPL, to the analytical design group, in 1959."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, I did. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you decide to take a job at JPL?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because Dick Morris [phonetic] from JPL had interviewed me and offered me a job, which looked like a very good job, and did not involve making weapon systems. I did not want to contribute to weapon systems, considering what had happened during Vietnam [War]. During Vietnam the newspapers were full of headlines which said that there were 30,000 Vietcong killed yesterday in Vietnam. How did they know? These were killed mostly—the strafing from airplanes. I decided right then and there that I was never going to contribute to a weapon system program. I knew darn good and well that they had no idea how many of the 30,000 were Vietcong and how many were on the other side. Civilians on the other side. But they just quoted these wildly incorrect data as if it was all true, and I knew damn well it wasn’t true at all. I decided at that time I was never going to contribute to another weapon system program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good decision. Talk about when you first went to JPL. Do you remember some of the projects you were working on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.652299151242058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, I did. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you decide to take a job at JPL?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because Dick Morris [phonetic] from JPL had interviewed me and offered me a job, which looked like a very good job, and did not involve making weapon systems. I did not want to contribute to weapon systems, considering what had happened during Vietnam [War]. During Vietnam the newspapers were full of headlines which said that there were 30,000 Vietcong killed yesterday in Vietnam. How did they know? These were killed mostly—the strafing from airplanes. I decided right then and there that I was never going to contribute to a weapon system program. I knew darn good and well that they had no idea how many of the 30,000 were Vietcong and how many were on the other side. Civilians on the other side. But they just quoted these wildly incorrect data as if it was all true, and I knew damn well it wasn’t true at all. I decided at that time I was never going to contribute to another weapon system program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good decision. Talk about when you first went to JPL. Do you remember some of the projects you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working on the project [Mariner 2] for flying past Venus and taking pictures of Venus by the spacecraft that went by them, and I designed the control system for scanning Venus when it went by. It turned out that that scan did get pictures of Venus, so that worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working on the Ranger Program also?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.724776834713397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because Dick Morris [phonetic] from JPL had interviewed me and offered me a job, which looked like a very good job, and did not involve making weapon systems. I did not want to contribute to weapon systems, considering what had happened during Vietnam [War]. During Vietnam the newspapers were full of headlines which said that there were 30,000 Vietcong killed yesterday in Vietnam. How did they know? These were killed mostly—the strafing from airplanes. I decided right then and there that I was never going to contribute to a weapon system program. I knew darn good and well that they had no idea how many of the 30,000 were Vietcong and how many were on the other side. Civilians on the other side. But they just quoted these wildly incorrect data as if it was all true, and I knew damn well it wasn’t true at all. I decided at that time I was never going to contribute to another weapon system program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good decision. Talk about when you first went to JPL. Do you remember some of the projects you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working on the project [Mariner 2] for flying past Venus and taking pictures of Venus by the spacecraft that went by them, and I designed the control system for scanning Venus when it went by. It turned out that that scan did get pictures of Venus, so that worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working on the Ranger Program also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was really the first unmanned spacecraft ever sent to photograph the Moon. At that time period that was quite an accomplishment. They were sending images back to Earth from that. Do you remember seeing images? What did you think when you saw those images?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.694196483014885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working on the project [Mariner 2] for flying past Venus and taking pictures of Venus by the spacecraft that went by them, and I designed the control system for scanning Venus when it went by. It turned out that that scan did get pictures of Venus, so that worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working on the Ranger Program also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was really the first unmanned spacecraft ever sent to photograph the Moon. At that time period that was quite an accomplishment. They were sending images back to Earth from that. Do you remember seeing images? What did you think when you saw those images?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t really remember, but you should know that there was an earlier mission to land a spacecraft on [the Moon]. It was called the Surveyor spacecraft. It actually landed on the Moon, with a soft landing. The reason for that program was to make sure that the dust from the Moon did not just all blow away from the engine, and that the spacecraft could land successfully. Because if it couldn’t land successfully, you couldn’t have landed the Apollo missions on the Moon. Everything did work right with that mission. I contributed a little bit to that mission, but not very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1960 you actually went to [NASA] Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia] and worked with Don [Donald C.] Cheatham and Bob [Robert G.] Chilton in the Space Task Group."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.771329425572095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was really the first unmanned spacecraft ever sent to photograph the Moon. At that time period that was quite an accomplishment. They were sending images back to Earth from that. Do you remember seeing images? What did you think when you saw those images?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t really remember, but you should know that there was an earlier mission to land a spacecraft on [the Moon]. It was called the Surveyor spacecraft. It actually landed on the Moon, with a soft landing. The reason for that program was to make sure that the dust from the Moon did not just all blow away from the engine, and that the spacecraft could land successfully. Because if it couldn’t land successfully, you couldn’t have landed the Apollo missions on the Moon. Everything did work right with that mission. I contributed a little bit to that mission, but not very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1960 you actually went to [NASA] Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia] and worked with Don [Donald C.] Cheatham and Bob [Robert G.] Chilton in the Space Task Group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure do remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The proposal evaluation team. Can you talk about that team and what you were looking at at that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.745921583968993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t really remember, but you should know that there was an earlier mission to land a spacecraft on [the Moon]. It was called the Surveyor spacecraft. It actually landed on the Moon, with a soft landing. The reason for that program was to make sure that the dust from the Moon did not just all blow away from the engine, and that the spacecraft could land successfully. Because if it couldn’t land successfully, you couldn’t have landed the Apollo missions on the Moon. Everything did work right with that mission. I contributed a little bit to that mission, but not very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1960 you actually went to [NASA] Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia] and worked with Don [Donald C.] Cheatham and Bob [Robert G.] Chilton in the Space Task Group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure do remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The proposal evaluation team. Can you talk about that team and what you were looking at at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was reading the industry proposals for what was going to happen in missions to the Moon. There were something like 50 different industry proposals, something like that. There were many dozens of ones that we examined and evaluated as to how good they were. But it was mostly Chilton and Cheatham who did the evaluation, and the rest of us just summarized what we got out of the proposals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get picked to go on that team?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.828801759965547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure do remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The proposal evaluation team. Can you talk about that team and what you were looking at at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was reading the industry proposals for what was going to happen in missions to the Moon. There were something like 50 different industry proposals, something like that. There were many dozens of ones that we examined and evaluated as to how good they were. But it was mostly Chilton and Cheatham who did the evaluation, and the rest of us just summarized what we got out of the proposals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get picked to go on that team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the person who’d hired me at JPL, he was asked to go. He didn’t want to interrupt his family life and go there, and I agreed to do that for a short time because I thought it was where the action was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember some of the proposals? What was the process? Did they just come in and give their proposal over a period of time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.032001955517273, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was reading the industry proposals for what was going to happen in missions to the Moon. There were something like 50 different industry proposals, something like that. There were many dozens of ones that we examined and evaluated as to how good they were. But it was mostly Chilton and Cheatham who did the evaluation, and the rest of us just summarized what we got out of the proposals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get picked to go on that team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the person who’d hired me at JPL, he was asked to go. He didn’t want to interrupt his family life and go there, and I agreed to do that for a short time because I thought it was where the action was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember some of the proposals? What was the process? Did they just come in and give their proposal over a period of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were all written, and we just had to read the proposals and evaluate them. I don’t remember that the evaluation was too useful, but it was mostly just summarizing what was in the proposals. That’s what we really did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was NASA thinking of using industry more than what they ended up using them as partners? At that point were they just looking for ideas from everywhere, just to figure out what they were going to do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.36889106168586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the person who’d hired me at JPL, he was asked to go. He didn’t want to interrupt his family life and go there, and I agreed to do that for a short time because I thought it was where the action was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember some of the proposals? What was the process? Did they just come in and give their proposal over a period of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were all written, and we just had to read the proposals and evaluate them. I don’t remember that the evaluation was too useful, but it was mostly just summarizing what was in the proposals. That’s what we really did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was NASA thinking of using industry more than what they ended up using them as partners? At that point were they just looking for ideas from everywhere, just to figure out what they were going to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think the latter. They were really just looking for ideas from anywhere about what could be done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was in 1960. But the President [John F. “Jack” Kennedy] announced in May of ’61 that he wanted Congress to divert funds to get a man on the Moon by the end of the decade. That was quite an amazing announcement."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.854323401873177, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were all written, and we just had to read the proposals and evaluate them. I don’t remember that the evaluation was too useful, but it was mostly just summarizing what was in the proposals. That’s what we really did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was NASA thinking of using industry more than what they ended up using them as partners? At that point were they just looking for ideas from everywhere, just to figure out what they were going to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think the latter. They were really just looking for ideas from anywhere about what could be done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was in 1960. But the President [John F. “Jack” Kennedy] announced in May of ’61 that he wanted Congress to divert funds to get a man on the Moon by the end of the decade. That was quite an amazing announcement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know a lot of people, it took them by surprise that that was going to happen. What were your thoughts?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.94924822430353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think the latter. They were really just looking for ideas from anywhere about what could be done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was in 1960. But the President [John F. “Jack” Kennedy] announced in May of ’61 that he wanted Congress to divert funds to get a man on the Moon by the end of the decade. That was quite an amazing announcement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know a lot of people, it took them by surprise that that was going to happen. What were your thoughts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was amazing that we had made a commitment to do that. Right after that happened, I was asked to serve as part of the [Systems Support] Group at NASA Headquarters [Washington, DC]. The JPL had a team there that was doing that work there, and I became part of that team.\\n\\n I was very interested in, primarily concerned about, the reliability of flying to the Moon and back. I did an analysis when I was at NASA Headquarters, based on the known reliability of the ballistic missile program, to compute—there were three different ways of going to the Moon.\\n\\n There was direct flight to the Moon, which was the most expensive, but the safest. There was an intermediate mission, which was never really considered very long, which was Earth-orbit rendezvous. Then there was lunar orbit rendezvous, which was easily the most dangerous. The ballistic missile analysis that I did, based on our ballistic missile reliability, was if we choose the lunar orbit rendezvous, there was only a 10 percent chance of any mission getting all the way to the surface of the Moon and back to Earth, considering how many operations had to be done at the Moon.\\n\\n It was just an enormous difference. There was about 1 chance in 10 based on the calculations that any one mission would get there to the Moon and all the way back to the Earth. But that was the cheapest way to do it, and NASA settled for the cheapest, even though I voted against it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone else vote with you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.165831360337254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know a lot of people, it took them by surprise that that was going to happen. What were your thoughts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was amazing that we had made a commitment to do that. Right after that happened, I was asked to serve as part of the [Systems Support] Group at NASA Headquarters [Washington, DC]. The JPL had a team there that was doing that work there, and I became part of that team.\\n\\n I was very interested in, primarily concerned about, the reliability of flying to the Moon and back. I did an analysis when I was at NASA Headquarters, based on the known reliability of the ballistic missile program, to compute—there were three different ways of going to the Moon.\\n\\n There was direct flight to the Moon, which was the most expensive, but the safest. There was an intermediate mission, which was never really considered very long, which was Earth-orbit rendezvous. Then there was lunar orbit rendezvous, which was easily the most dangerous. The ballistic missile analysis that I did, based on our ballistic missile reliability, was if we choose the lunar orbit rendezvous, there was only a 10 percent chance of any mission getting all the way to the surface of the Moon and back to Earth, considering how many operations had to be done at the Moon.\\n\\n It was just an enormous difference. There was about 1 chance in 10 based on the calculations that any one mission would get there to the Moon and all the way back to the Earth. But that was the cheapest way to do it, and NASA settled for the cheapest, even though I voted against it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone else vote with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember whether anybody else did or not, but that was what was chosen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember how many people were on that team? Or about how many different people? Was it a large group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.517590400374726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was amazing that we had made a commitment to do that. Right after that happened, I was asked to serve as part of the [Systems Support] Group at NASA Headquarters [Washington, DC]. The JPL had a team there that was doing that work there, and I became part of that team.\\n\\n I was very interested in, primarily concerned about, the reliability of flying to the Moon and back. I did an analysis when I was at NASA Headquarters, based on the known reliability of the ballistic missile program, to compute—there were three different ways of going to the Moon.\\n\\n There was direct flight to the Moon, which was the most expensive, but the safest. There was an intermediate mission, which was never really considered very long, which was Earth-orbit rendezvous. Then there was lunar orbit rendezvous, which was easily the most dangerous. The ballistic missile analysis that I did, based on our ballistic missile reliability, was if we choose the lunar orbit rendezvous, there was only a 10 percent chance of any mission getting all the way to the surface of the Moon and back to Earth, considering how many operations had to be done at the Moon.\\n\\n It was just an enormous difference. There was about 1 chance in 10 based on the calculations that any one mission would get there to the Moon and all the way back to the Earth. But that was the cheapest way to do it, and NASA settled for the cheapest, even though I voted against it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone else vote with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember whether anybody else did or not, but that was what was chosen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember how many people were on that team? Or about how many different people? Was it a large group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 10 or 12 of us who were working on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Joe [Joseph F.] Shea, was leading it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.908433778194139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember whether anybody else did or not, but that was what was chosen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember how many people were on that team? Or about how many different people? Was it a large group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 10 or 12 of us who were working on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Joe [Joseph F.] Shea, was leading it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Joe Shea was very prominent in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was reading in one of the books—I don’t know if you remember this instance, but at Headquarters you saw a presentation. There were two slide projectors at once, and you were talking about how impressed you were at the technology at that point."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.453815309104598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 10 or 12 of us who were working on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Joe [Joseph F.] Shea, was leading it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Joe Shea was very prominent in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was reading in one of the books—I don’t know if you remember this instance, but at Headquarters you saw a presentation. There were two slide projectors at once, and you were talking about how impressed you were at the technology at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was impressed primarily by how little it was possible—the percentage of what you could remember by having two people with two projectors at once, and you’re listening to two people talk at once. You have to look at two different screens and follow two different lines of thought at once, and that was impossible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe not the best way to get their point across. That’s interesting just because the way technology has changed. When you go back and look at that time period, when you were deciding something really important, and it had people’s lives in the balance. Like you said, it was the least safe as far as you were concerned."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.17090589900511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Joe Shea was very prominent in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was reading in one of the books—I don’t know if you remember this instance, but at Headquarters you saw a presentation. There were two slide projectors at once, and you were talking about how impressed you were at the technology at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was impressed primarily by how little it was possible—the percentage of what you could remember by having two people with two projectors at once, and you’re listening to two people talk at once. You have to look at two different screens and follow two different lines of thought at once, and that was impossible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe not the best way to get their point across. That’s interesting just because the way technology has changed. When you go back and look at that time period, when you were deciding something really important, and it had people’s lives in the balance. Like you said, it was the least safe as far as you were concerned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the least safe, yes, it was the least safe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a group, did everyone feel that you could get past that? You said there was a 10 percent chance that it would be safe."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.078784332227897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was impressed primarily by how little it was possible—the percentage of what you could remember by having two people with two projectors at once, and you’re listening to two people talk at once. You have to look at two different screens and follow two different lines of thought at once, and that was impossible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe not the best way to get their point across. That’s interesting just because the way technology has changed. When you go back and look at that time period, when you were deciding something really important, and it had people’s lives in the balance. Like you said, it was the least safe as far as you were concerned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the least safe, yes, it was the least safe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a group, did everyone feel that you could get past that? You said there was a 10 percent chance that it would be safe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For any one mission there was only a 10 percent chance that you’d get all the way to the surface of the Moon and back to Earth, on any one mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they felt that that was okay? That percentage was worth trying?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.198649258030997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the least safe, yes, it was the least safe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a group, did everyone feel that you could get past that? You said there was a 10 percent chance that it would be safe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For any one mission there was only a 10 percent chance that you’d get all the way to the surface of the Moon and back to Earth, on any one mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they felt that that was okay? That percentage was worth trying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They thought that they could improve the safety of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were confident that that could be improved."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.998332417322217, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They thought that they could improve the safety of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were confident that that could be improved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It turned out that that was correct. I think that the big thing that happened during the interim was that digital computers got to be far more reliable and far more capable than they were at the time that I did those calculations. I think the digital computer industry came through with big margins.\\n\\n In fact, the first computer we had doing all of our work for us at the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory, commonly known as MIT/IL, was a Honeywell [Inc. H-]1800 computer. My wife and I lived next door to a person who worked for Honeywell. I had put in, in my simulation for the descent guidance checking, on the correctness of the things that were computed by the Honeywell 1800 computer. They were getting wrong answers all the time. Any time that you saw lightning out the window of the lab [laboratory], this Honeywell 1800 computer was likely to stop. With my simulations at least, because I was checking the correctness of their data, it was failing tests all the time.\\n\\n But the person that lived next to us worked for Honeywell, and I asked him, “What about the safety of your computers, the reliability of your computers? They’re making mistakes all the time.”\\n\\n He said, “Tell me about it. Honeywell is in the process of paying off a farmer who raises hundreds of chickens in the Midwest, because they were using our computer to compute the optimum diet for the chickens and he wound up with 5,000 dwarf chickens.” So the Honeywell was soon moved off and replaced by an IBM 360 [Model] 75 which was self-checking, and that was the end of my program finding errors. Never again did my program stop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you went back to the Instrumentation Lab at MIT in 1963. What made you decide to go back there when you were working for NASA before that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Primarily I liked the challenge of being involved in a manned program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had it already been decided that they would be working on the software at that point?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.133743725089158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Primarily I liked the challenge of being involved in a manned program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had it already been decided that they would be working on the software at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it had been decided. That’s why I went back there. I never returned from NASA Headquarters to JPL, I just applied to the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory and was hired there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about some of those early days and couple years at Instrumentation Lab."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I’m prepared to. I had already concluded that one of the things I wanted to talk about was women’s role in that, because we had something like 300 engineers, all men, who were doing all the work on that. I thought that that was not right. Then somehow a woman named Margaret [H.] Hamilton was hired. She was brilliant, and within a year she was my boss’s boss, Margaret Hamilton. If you go to Central Square, Cambridge today and just look at the organizations that are situated in Central Square today you’ll find that there’s a Hamilton [Technologies, Inc.] computer engineering company there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s her."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.259715250099063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it had been decided. That’s why I went back there. I never returned from NASA Headquarters to JPL, I just applied to the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory and was hired there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about some of those early days and couple years at Instrumentation Lab."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I’m prepared to. I had already concluded that one of the things I wanted to talk about was women’s role in that, because we had something like 300 engineers, all men, who were doing all the work on that. I thought that that was not right. Then somehow a woman named Margaret [H.] Hamilton was hired. She was brilliant, and within a year she was my boss’s boss, Margaret Hamilton. If you go to Central Square, Cambridge today and just look at the organizations that are situated in Central Square today you’ll find that there’s a Hamilton [Technologies, Inc.] computer engineering company there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that’s her. The only fault I find with that is that she’s done the reverse. All the people that work there are women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of giving a leg up to the female side?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.621905833443403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I’m prepared to. I had already concluded that one of the things I wanted to talk about was women’s role in that, because we had something like 300 engineers, all men, who were doing all the work on that. I thought that that was not right. Then somehow a woman named Margaret [H.] Hamilton was hired. She was brilliant, and within a year she was my boss’s boss, Margaret Hamilton. If you go to Central Square, Cambridge today and just look at the organizations that are situated in Central Square today you’ll find that there’s a Hamilton [Technologies, Inc.] computer engineering company there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that’s her. The only fault I find with that is that she’s done the reverse. All the people that work there are women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of giving a leg up to the female side?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Meanwhile, even though when I graduated from MIT they had only 50 women at MIT, now it’s about half-and-half. I think that women have advanced properly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, at least there’s a lot more now than there used to be. That’s very true."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.246562037159336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that’s her. The only fault I find with that is that she’s done the reverse. All the people that work there are women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of giving a leg up to the female side?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Meanwhile, even though when I graduated from MIT they had only 50 women at MIT, now it’s about half-and-half. I think that women have advanced properly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, at least there’s a lot more now than there used to be. That’s very true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that in most colleges there is about half-and-half nowadays, and that’s the way it should be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Margaret Hamilton came to the Instrumentation Lab, what was the reaction of people you worked with? Were there men that said, “No, I don’t want to work with a woman”?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.718402263510374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Meanwhile, even though when I graduated from MIT they had only 50 women at MIT, now it’s about half-and-half. I think that women have advanced properly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, at least there’s a lot more now than there used to be. That’s very true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that in most colleges there is about half-and-half nowadays, and that’s the way it should be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Margaret Hamilton came to the Instrumentation Lab, what was the reaction of people you worked with? Were there men that said, “No, I don’t want to work with a woman”?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember that there were. In general, people were trying to be fair about things at the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory. Not only about the relationship there, but also about the difference between Christian and Jewish religions. The holiday season was called the yule season, so it wasn’t either Christian or Jewish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it was very forward thinking at the time, wasn’t it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.464891403900413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that in most colleges there is about half-and-half nowadays, and that’s the way it should be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Margaret Hamilton came to the Instrumentation Lab, what was the reaction of people you worked with? Were there men that said, “No, I don’t want to work with a woman”?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember that there were. In general, people were trying to be fair about things at the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory. Not only about the relationship there, but also about the difference between Christian and Jewish religions. The holiday season was called the yule season, so it wasn’t either Christian or Jewish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it was very forward thinking at the time, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was, yes. I like that way of thinking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seems like it was a good place to work at that point in time."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 30.516546004333794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember that there were. In general, people were trying to be fair about things at the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory. Not only about the relationship there, but also about the difference between Christian and Jewish religions. The holiday season was called the yule season, so it wasn’t either Christian or Jewish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it was very forward thinking at the time, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was, yes. I like that way of thinking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seems like it was a good place to work at that point in time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes. There wasn’t any doubt about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were there at the beginning, I was reading that you worked on a pen-and-ink drawing of the simulations of what the views of the lunar surface would look like outside of the LM [lunar module] cockpit for the astronauts to train."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.79616222703755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was, yes. I like that way of thinking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seems like it was a good place to work at that point in time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes. There wasn’t any doubt about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were there at the beginning, I was reading that you worked on a pen-and-ink drawing of the simulations of what the views of the lunar surface would look like outside of the LM [lunar module] cockpit for the astronauts to train."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, I did. That’s what I was assigned to do actually. I allowed the people who used the simulator to specify what craters were on the Moon in the vicinity of the landing spot and what they looked like. I would draw pictures of what the craters would look like as you came down into a proposed landing site, where you could specify. I actually made a movie of it. It was very coarse in time, where I every two seconds during the descent drew a picture of what the craters would look like at that point. That was a pretty crude movie, but it seemed to catch the attention of an awful lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that allow you to be assigned to other projects because of that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.10684691893061, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes. There wasn’t any doubt about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were there at the beginning, I was reading that you worked on a pen-and-ink drawing of the simulations of what the views of the lunar surface would look like outside of the LM [lunar module] cockpit for the astronauts to train."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, I did. That’s what I was assigned to do actually. I allowed the people who used the simulator to specify what craters were on the Moon in the vicinity of the landing spot and what they looked like. I would draw pictures of what the craters would look like as you came down into a proposed landing site, where you could specify. I actually made a movie of it. It was very coarse in time, where I every two seconds during the descent drew a picture of what the craters would look like at that point. That was a pretty crude movie, but it seemed to catch the attention of an awful lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that allow you to be assigned to other projects because of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just part of what I was doing on the lunar descent. You might be interested in Don [Donald] Eyles. You’ve heard of Don Eyles and his book [Sunburst and Luminary: An Apollo Memoir]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I was reading some excerpts from things that he had written, too."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 36.78538546547845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, I did. That’s what I was assigned to do actually. I allowed the people who used the simulator to specify what craters were on the Moon in the vicinity of the landing spot and what they looked like. I would draw pictures of what the craters would look like as you came down into a proposed landing site, where you could specify. I actually made a movie of it. It was very coarse in time, where I every two seconds during the descent drew a picture of what the craters would look like at that point. That was a pretty crude movie, but it seemed to catch the attention of an awful lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that allow you to be assigned to other projects because of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just part of what I was doing on the lunar descent. You might be interested in Don [Donald] Eyles. You’ve heard of Don Eyles and his book [Sunburst and Luminary: An Apollo Memoir]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I was reading some excerpts from things that he had written, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is an excellent book. I’m still in the process of reading it actually because I’ve still been working on this project, but it’s an excellent book. But Don Eyles, you might want to know—are you interested in things that are primarily amusing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We always like good stories, yes."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 36.42820607275383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just part of what I was doing on the lunar descent. You might be interested in Don [Donald] Eyles. You’ve heard of Don Eyles and his book [Sunburst and Luminary: An Apollo Memoir]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I was reading some excerpts from things that he had written, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is an excellent book. I’m still in the process of reading it actually because I’ve still been working on this project, but it’s an excellent book. But Don Eyles, you might want to know—are you interested in things that are primarily amusing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We always like good stories, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don Eyles at one point—he was a member of my team. So he was translating everything that I did in a higher order language. He was translating that to the language of the Apollo guidance computer. At one point he and I had a difference of opinion about something that I thought should be in his translation that wasn’t there.\\n\\n I asked him to put it there, and we had a back-and-forth argument about it. He didn’t want to put it there, but eventually he did. But he put it in a box. The box surrounded the new code and had an explanation at the top of the box, “The code in this box was added at the demand of a Byzantine dodo bird.”\\n\\n In later years, he forgot he ever had that in there. It disappeared after not very long. It was there for a short time, but there was a Byzantine dodo bird in that box, referring to me. Byzantine means in the 15th century."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was pretty young when he was recruited, from what I read."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.689979631753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They wouldn’t have been able to land, because the switch—the communication went like this. “Houston, the abort switch is on again.” “Well, turn it off.” After that happened for quite a few times, it became clear that it was failing. It took 17 minutes to go down. It was failing once every minute or two, so the probability of landing was very close to zero. If he hadn’t figured out a procedure that they could follow—so Don Eyles actually saved Apollo 14. But I claim I saved Apollo 14 indirectly by having Don Eyles still there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right, you kept him from being fired, so you deserve that award too. I was reading that what he did would normally take a week or so to figure out, and he did it in such a short period of time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had the mental strength to do something that very few people did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s pretty impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. No doubt about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about when you were with the Instrumentation Lab and you were working on that descent guidance and the LM steering systems. At NASA, at Johnson [Space Center, JSC], there was the Mission Planning and Analysis Division."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 24.099977368614447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had the mental strength to do something that very few people did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s pretty impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. No doubt about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about when you were with the Instrumentation Lab and you were working on that descent guidance and the LM steering systems. At NASA, at Johnson [Space Center, JSC], there was the Mission Planning and Analysis Division."}, {"role": "user", "content": "MPAD, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "MPAD, they were working on that. Talk about the relationship between MPAD and the IL where you were, and how that relationship worked. Did you work with anyone at JSC or at NASA at that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 27.57198541648072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yes, I worked with Jim [James H.] Alphin primarily at JSC. I also worked with other people at JSC too, one of whom had come up with a scheme for the descent guidance which would improve the performance in terms of how much fuel it would take to do the landings. One of the JSC people did come up with an improvement to that and I supported him on the improvement.\\n\\n But the person who had to make the decision on it, Bill [Howard Wilson] Tindall [Jr.]. You’ve probably heard of him. He’s not living anymore, I understand. But he decided against the improvements that the JSC fellow had made, because it didn’t make enough difference. It reduced the fuel consumption but not by enough to really matter, and Tindall decided that it wasn’t worth changing everything around for such a small improvement.\\n\\n I must say I think that Tindall was the best manager I ever worked with. He was just absolutely right on everything that he decided should go. I thought he was even right on turning down that reworking the descent guidance to the extent that would be necessary if you actually adopted that improvement. There was no doubt it was an improvement, but not enough to be worth the cost of overthrowing everything that was there already in order to make such a small improvement.\\n\\n I thought that Bill Tindall was the best manager I ever had worked with. There wasn’t one thing I ever saw him decide that I didn’t think was right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve heard from a lot of people about him. That he was able to listen in a meeting to everybody’s information and ideas, and then take that information and condense it down into the right decision."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yes, that is true. I think that he deserves to be remembered for the quality of his management, which was absolutely superb."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know he was famous at JSC for his “Tindallgrams” [memoranda]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get those, too?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.302206018311914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yes, that is true. I think that he deserves to be remembered for the quality of his management, which was absolutely superb."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know he was famous at JSC for his “Tindallgrams” [memoranda]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get those, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re still being circulated actually. They’re still being circulated. People that go to the luncheons, those of us who did so much work on Apollo, are still speaking about Tindallgrams decades later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s an amazing legacy."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 30.335784464791015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get those, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re still being circulated actually. They’re still being circulated. People that go to the luncheons, those of us who did so much work on Apollo, are still speaking about Tindallgrams decades later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s an amazing legacy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it is. It’s an amazing legacy just to have worked with so many people, not one of whom ever failed to the point that we lost any missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was reading, and it was attributed to you, that you said, about Apollo, that the task was a daunting one because there was no possibility you could ever try again. I thought that was interesting. When you first started working on this, you were very aware that it had to work. The software had to work. Sometimes when we talk to people they’re so focused on what they’re doing, the technical part of it, the realization of what they were really working on and what it meant to the entire nation—they didn’t really see that until after it was over. But it sounds like you were aware that it was extremely important when you were working on it. Did you have any idea about the way the world would react once you helped accomplish that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.395638395966834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had programmed that the crew could specify where they were landing by manipulating a stick, like the joystick on an airplane. Each time you moved the stick forward or aft it would respecify where the landing site was, either forward or aft, according to the direction you moved it. Or left and right, it would do the same thing left and right. That was very soon adopted as being the way that it was going to work.\\n\\n The only thing that I did differently than the way that it actually did work in flight was that I had it so that it would move the landing site, where it was located, left or right by about the same amount in terms of the length. The astronauts decided that they would rather have it move by the same angle, whether it was forward or aft or whatever. So that’s what actually flew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the landing point designator?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "LPD, yes, that’s right. That’s the way that worked. That was my idea. Except for changing the constants involved, it worked the way that it was supposed to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That gave the commander, as they were landing, the ability to manually make those last-minute changes in case the computer had designated a place that wasn’t necessarily a good place to land."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, for instance on a pile of rocks or something like that. You could always change where the landing site was by moving this control stick. It turned out that I wasn’t the only one who thought of that. There was another person who did think of that some years earlier. Phil [Philip G.] Felleman had thought of that earlier. I don’t know whether you know of Phil Felleman or not. He’s no longer here, he died quite a few years ago. But he said, “We had that running years ago.” I have no way of verifying or denying it, so I will just allow that to stand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a little different though. With other spaceflight that came before Apollo, they didn’t give that much control to the astronauts. So this was a little different. It was a hybrid between allowing the computer to do it, and then letting them control what they were going to do."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.328487106629815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "LPD, yes, that’s right. That’s the way that worked. That was my idea. Except for changing the constants involved, it worked the way that it was supposed to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That gave the commander, as they were landing, the ability to manually make those last-minute changes in case the computer had designated a place that wasn’t necessarily a good place to land."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, for instance on a pile of rocks or something like that. You could always change where the landing site was by moving this control stick. It turned out that I wasn’t the only one who thought of that. There was another person who did think of that some years earlier. Phil [Philip G.] Felleman had thought of that earlier. I don’t know whether you know of Phil Felleman or not. He’s no longer here, he died quite a few years ago. But he said, “We had that running years ago.” I have no way of verifying or denying it, so I will just allow that to stand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a little different though. With other spaceflight that came before Apollo, they didn’t give that much control to the astronauts. So this was a little different. It was a hybrid between allowing the computer to do it, and then letting them control what they were going to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It definitely came in handy on Apollo 11."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 32.58720789625535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, for instance on a pile of rocks or something like that. You could always change where the landing site was by moving this control stick. It turned out that I wasn’t the only one who thought of that. There was another person who did think of that some years earlier. Phil [Philip G.] Felleman had thought of that earlier. I don’t know whether you know of Phil Felleman or not. He’s no longer here, he died quite a few years ago. But he said, “We had that running years ago.” I have no way of verifying or denying it, so I will just allow that to stand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a little different though. With other spaceflight that came before Apollo, they didn’t give that much control to the astronauts. So this was a little different. It was a hybrid between allowing the computer to do it, and then letting them control what they were going to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It definitely came in handy on Apollo 11."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about some of the work leading up to Apollo 11. You mentioned sleeping on the couch during Apollo 14, but also working up until that first landing you were spending a lot of hours at the lab. What were your days like? How often did you get to come home?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.999265929290669, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was really amazing how that crew training went off, because the commander of Apollo 12 was by far the most capable of the commanders."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pete [Charles] Conrad [Jr.]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pete Conrad, yes. He was absolutely amazing. He asked all of us who had written anything about what we had been doing—he asked to get copies of anything we had written, and he was absolutely unbelievable in terms of what he could understand.\\n\\n When we were doing the crew training—supposedly we were doing the crew training. When we were talking about various technical details, often after we had described one of the details of it, he would speak up and say, “Don’t you mean such and such?” and describe it. No matter who he was talking to, the answer was always, “You’re right, Pete, that’s the way it should be described.” He was amazing in his ability to understand things and make corrections if necessary. The rate at which he thought, the way that he got the answers right so fast that you just couldn’t believe that he could think that fast.\\n\\n After Apollo 12 had flown to the Moon and back I happened to be at Houston for something else. I forget what it was, but I was in one of the hangars in Houston and he walks in. Just being around somebody who had actually walked on the Moon was exciting to me. I said, “Pete, you’re not going to tell me you’ve actually walked on the Moon, are you?” His answer was, “No, it was a trick we did with mirrors.” Repeating what the public had been led by some people to believe, that there had never been an Apollo mission to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He did have a good sense of humor from what we hear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did. He was a real joy to work with, at the level of Bill Tindall. Bill Tindall and Pete Conrad were two of a kind in terms of their intelligence and their ability to knock down the right answer that fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were doing that training, was that in Houston? The crew training on the GSOP?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.344772752210702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did. He was a real joy to work with, at the level of Bill Tindall. Bill Tindall and Pete Conrad were two of a kind in terms of their intelligence and their ability to knock down the right answer that fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were doing that training, was that in Houston? The crew training on the GSOP?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took place in various places, I think both at the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory and in Houston. But it hardly mattered where it took place, because as far as Conrad was concerned he was always on top of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were all the Apollo astronauts trained at the same time or was it by crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were groups of astronauts. I don’t know whether it was all of them at the same time, but nobody ignored what Tindall or Conrad said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about for a minute that GSOP. That was a documentation of the software for the systems that they would be working with. It was large, from what I read. It was pretty wieldy and large. Documentation though is important. Can you talk about the need for accurate documentation?\\n\\n Plus you were very specialized in what you did. You were a computer programmer, software developer, engineer, and you were talking to pilots. Very smart pilots obviously, very intelligent and capable. But you were also teaching them things that wasn’t their specialty. Maybe talk about teaching them those programs and things that they would have to understand?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.716414169123002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took place in various places, I think both at the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory and in Houston. But it hardly mattered where it took place, because as far as Conrad was concerned he was always on top of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were all the Apollo astronauts trained at the same time or was it by crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were groups of astronauts. I don’t know whether it was all of them at the same time, but nobody ignored what Tindall or Conrad said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about for a minute that GSOP. That was a documentation of the software for the systems that they would be working with. It was large, from what I read. It was pretty wieldy and large. Documentation though is important. Can you talk about the need for accurate documentation?\\n\\n Plus you were very specialized in what you did. You were a computer programmer, software developer, engineer, and you were talking to pilots. Very smart pilots obviously, very intelligent and capable. But you were also teaching them things that wasn’t their specialty. Maybe talk about teaching them those programs and things that they would have to understand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What happened with two of the candidates for becoming astronauts was that they asked me, and probably other people, to send them copies of what we had written. I did, and I suspect they probably got them from other people, too. Both of them have walked on the Moon now. They both made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was quite an experience, getting to teach them the things that they would need to know to do that. Let’s talk about some of the programs that you were writing during that time. I noticed some of the names were interesting. The one on Apollo 5, I was reading the program’s name was SUNBURST, and then Apollo 9 it was SUNDANCE. And then Apollo 11, I think by that time the program had evolved and it became LUMINARY. Those were some of the program names, which I thought was interesting. Where did the names come from, do you remember?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.995573048300002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What happened with two of the candidates for becoming astronauts was that they asked me, and probably other people, to send them copies of what we had written. I did, and I suspect they probably got them from other people, too. Both of them have walked on the Moon now. They both made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was quite an experience, getting to teach them the things that they would need to know to do that. Let’s talk about some of the programs that you were writing during that time. I noticed some of the names were interesting. The one on Apollo 5, I was reading the program’s name was SUNBURST, and then Apollo 9 it was SUNDANCE. And then Apollo 11, I think by that time the program had evolved and it became LUMINARY. Those were some of the program names, which I thought was interesting. Where did the names come from, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I do know what the version numbers were. LUMINARY 130 flew on Apollo 12, and was about to be repeated on Apollo 13 when I got authorization to release the one that corrected the errors from Apollo 11. So that was 131. If you want to think of it in terms of the number 13—which stupidly is considered to be a bad luck number—that’s 13 going and coming, and so LUMINARY 131 did fly on Apollo 13."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As we know even today, computer programs are constantly being improved. As you were working through all these, all the way up to Apollo 11 these programs were being changed, evaluated, simulated, and everything was moving forward for Apollo 11."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had different revisions even as you went through the program itself. On Apollo 11, let’s talk about the launch. You got to go see the launch, is that correct?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.217303387000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I do know what the version numbers were. LUMINARY 130 flew on Apollo 12, and was about to be repeated on Apollo 13 when I got authorization to release the one that corrected the errors from Apollo 11. So that was 131. If you want to think of it in terms of the number 13—which stupidly is considered to be a bad luck number—that’s 13 going and coming, and so LUMINARY 131 did fly on Apollo 13."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As we know even today, computer programs are constantly being improved. As you were working through all these, all the way up to Apollo 11 these programs were being changed, evaluated, simulated, and everything was moving forward for Apollo 11."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had different revisions even as you went through the program itself. On Apollo 11, let’s talk about the launch. You got to go see the launch, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is correct, yes. Anybody who had made a major contribution, NASA invited them to go to Florida to watch the liftoff of Apollo 11. That included my wife and me. None of our children did, but Sue and I both did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a perk for all the hours you put in though."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.463670430000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had different revisions even as you went through the program itself. On Apollo 11, let’s talk about the launch. You got to go see the launch, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is correct, yes. Anybody who had made a major contribution, NASA invited them to go to Florida to watch the liftoff of Apollo 11. That included my wife and me. None of our children did, but Sue and I both did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a perk for all the hours you put in though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I did put in quite a bit few more hours than I was paid for, but to be able to participate in something as important as that was well worth it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that experience of seeing the launch and how you felt seeing it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.848522700000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is correct, yes. Anybody who had made a major contribution, NASA invited them to go to Florida to watch the liftoff of Apollo 11. That included my wife and me. None of our children did, but Sue and I both did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a perk for all the hours you put in though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I did put in quite a bit few more hours than I was paid for, but to be able to participate in something as important as that was well worth it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that experience of seeing the launch and how you felt seeing it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in like the grandstand surrounding a football field, and we could all see and hear the launch take place. Seeing that was very exciting, and hearing it—it was making such an enormous amount of noise that it was practically ear-shattering to watch Apollo 11 take off for the Moon. That was really quite an experience. It was just like the bleachers of a football field. There must have been 100,000 people there or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The roadways, everybody was just pulled over and camping. The photos are amazing, when you look at the photos of the roads and everything around there. Quite an accomplishment."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.942803000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I did put in quite a bit few more hours than I was paid for, but to be able to participate in something as important as that was well worth it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that experience of seeing the launch and how you felt seeing it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in like the grandstand surrounding a football field, and we could all see and hear the launch take place. Seeing that was very exciting, and hearing it—it was making such an enormous amount of noise that it was practically ear-shattering to watch Apollo 11 take off for the Moon. That was really quite an experience. It was just like the bleachers of a football field. There must have been 100,000 people there or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The roadways, everybody was just pulled over and camping. The photos are amazing, when you look at the photos of the roads and everything around there. Quite an accomplishment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that we got there using an Avis rental car. It landed in Orlando, Florida, and we drove there. But I had already established a reputation at Avis, because several times actually earlier I had stopped at Orlando on my way to something that was going on at NASA. The first time I used Avis was an interesting experience, because the Avis rental car people never forgot me after that first trip that I used one of their cars.\\n\\n The reason why was that when I first got in the car and I had driven a few miles down the road, I noticed that the water temperature had gone up and it shouldn’t have gone up. I figured that the radiator must have been not filled. They must have given me a car that didn’t have the radiator full, and that’s the reason why it was going up. I had just come down from Boston, and I had in my bladder enough to finish filling the radiator, I thought. So I finished filling the radiator, parked next to the road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s one way to do it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00845:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was most frightening because the slight changes of the trajectory were using more fuel than what people counted on. When they finally touched down they had only 30 seconds left of fuel in the tanks for a roughly 17-minute descent. Thirty seconds left. Nobody likes to drive a car that close. He finally did do the final descent himself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know it was pretty frightening for the people in Mission Control, so I imagine listening to it where you were at MIT it was pretty frightening there, too.\\n\\n One of the things I read in one of the articles that Don Eyles had written, that it really bothered him—because after the landing, everything was okay, but the media was portraying it as a computer error. It really bothered him that that was happening because it wasn’t a computer error, as you explained. Do you remember that, or being bothered by that, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never was bothered by obviously wrong reports. So I was not bothered by that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you knew—well, you found out eventually—the true reason. But you went for 25 years without really knowing what the actual cause was. What did you think during that time before you talked to Russ Larson, in that 25-year period what did you think the problem was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Unexplained."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just weren’t sure."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00389:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 54.682122252332384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ooh, it is raining, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it looks like it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s hard to say. I think what we in particular started trying to do is really—especially as I became the more senior Army guy, I tried to really maintain a close connection with both the Army and with West Point [United States Military Academy, New York] to try to really leverage our potential to be a positive image for the Army, not as much outside the Army, but within the Army. I went up to West Point generally once a year to lecture. A West Point classmate of mine, Bill Fox, was on the permanent faculty in the math department. I would go up and give a lecture to the sophomores taking probability and statistics and talk about how we used tools like that to assess the risk of flying in space.\\n\\n We would go to the Association of the United States Army annual convention and have a little booth there where we would sign autographs for servicemen and women or children that would come visit. We would do the same thing with the Army Aviation Association of America annual convention. We tried to be pretty visible within the Army family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the questions I like to ask people is to talk about that first Monday morning meeting in the Astronaut Office. Can you talk about that and your memories?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I think it just blends in with every other Monday morning meeting. We always were in awe listening to whatever John [W.] Young had to say. What I remember during that time is just how happy I was to come to work every day. That was for the first year, and then you started becoming anxious because you were waiting for your first flight assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk to us a bit about your training? All the classes participate in training."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00389:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 62.62196196623753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now I admit I occasionally went to McDonald’s in Russia, but why go to an American fast food restaurant? It’s always nice, a little taste of home. The Russian drivers that transported us around, they loved it. They loved for us to go there. We’d maybe buy them an ???? ? ??? ????? (obed s Big Makom [or lunch with Big Mac]). It’s a Big Mac [value meal]. That’s like a number one on the menu or whatever it is. It was a lot more fun to go to see something that was more Russian, traditional. Although I’m not sure that we really saw Russian traditional so much as something that tried to be a little more western with Russian food—I’m not sure there is Russian cuisine, but whatever cuisine that they brought in from the republics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing like borscht or something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, borscht, sure. The borscht on board Space Station was just outstanding; it was really good. I remember as a kid seeing some cartoon. The implication was that borscht was awful, and it’s not. It’s really good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, well, it’s cabbage I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cabbage and they generally have some pork or some meat in it. It’s well seasoned—well, it’s seasoned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things astronauts do is they get assigned technical assignments. What was your first technical assignment after you became an astronaut?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00389:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 47, "return_to_go": 68.46884662915281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, borscht, sure. The borscht on board Space Station was just outstanding; it was really good. I remember as a kid seeing some cartoon. The implication was that borscht was awful, and it’s not. It’s really good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, well, it’s cabbage I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cabbage and they generally have some pork or some meat in it. It’s well seasoned—well, it’s seasoned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things astronauts do is they get assigned technical assignments. What was your first technical assignment after you became an astronaut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is great. My first technical assignment was the Motor Mother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Motor Mother?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00389:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.783640648000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was STS-50."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything notable during that flight? Were you on the planning [shift], on orbit [shift]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I may have been. I remember doing [STS]-46, 47, 50. I’m just trying to remember if we had them out of sequence at that time. I think it was STS-50 because I’m pretty sure that Dick [Richard N.] Richards was the CDR [commander]. Let me see. There’s no telling. I do remember there was some issue about the potty on board. Gap [Granville] Pennington was the flight director. Dick Richards, he got really annoyed with me because I asked the crew some question about the trouble they were having with the potty, and he thought that was not the kind of thing that should have been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On air-to-ground."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That should [not] have been on air-to-ground radio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were able to obviously get that fixed, and everything went fine."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00389:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.759600720000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I may have been. I remember doing [STS]-46, 47, 50. I’m just trying to remember if we had them out of sequence at that time. I think it was STS-50 because I’m pretty sure that Dick [Richard N.] Richards was the CDR [commander]. Let me see. There’s no telling. I do remember there was some issue about the potty on board. Gap [Granville] Pennington was the flight director. Dick Richards, he got really annoyed with me because I asked the crew some question about the trouble they were having with the potty, and he thought that was not the kind of thing that should have been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On air-to-ground."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That should [not] have been on air-to-ground radio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were able to obviously get that fixed, and everything went fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know [if] we ever had a Shuttle mission which the toilet completely broke. On my first mission we had a lot of problems with it for the first couple days. But there are backup supplies. I think it would just make your time on orbit very unpleasant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve heard from several members of the crew of [STS]-41D who used bags and socks. It doesn’t sound [like] something that I would want to do."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00389:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.844000800000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That should [not] have been on air-to-ground radio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were able to obviously get that fixed, and everything went fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know [if] we ever had a Shuttle mission which the toilet completely broke. On my first mission we had a lot of problems with it for the first couple days. But there are backup supplies. I think it would just make your time on orbit very unpleasant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve heard from several members of the crew of [STS]-41D who used bags and socks. It doesn’t sound [like] something that I would want to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If we put a crew on EM [Exploration Mission]-1, if we can’t develop a potty in time to do that, I just said, “Well, carry up a lot of diapers and Apollo bags.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They still make those Apollo bags?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00389:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 34.271112, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know [if] we ever had a Shuttle mission which the toilet completely broke. On my first mission we had a lot of problems with it for the first couple days. But there are backup supplies. I think it would just make your time on orbit very unpleasant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve heard from several members of the crew of [STS]-41D who used bags and socks. It doesn’t sound [like] something that I would want to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If we put a crew on EM [Exploration Mission]-1, if we can’t develop a potty in time to do that, I just said, “Well, carry up a lot of diapers and Apollo bags.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They still make those Apollo bags?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure someone would be happy to start making them again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe you were also a Cape Crusader at one point."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00389:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 34.74568000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If we put a crew on EM [Exploration Mission]-1, if we can’t develop a potty in time to do that, I just said, “Well, carry up a lot of diapers and Apollo bags.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They still make those Apollo bags?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure someone would be happy to start making them again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe you were also a Cape Crusader at one point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was not. I was not, they worked for me. I think it was called the Flight Support Branch. I was the Flight Support Branch Chief. The CapComs and the Cape Crusaders worked for me. I coordinated their activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was looking at your biosheet, and it said you were in prelaunch Shuttle processing and launch and landing operations. So I assumed that was code for Cape Crusader."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00389:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 37.495200000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure someone would be happy to start making them again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe you were also a Cape Crusader at one point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was not. I was not, they worked for me. I think it was called the Flight Support Branch. I was the Flight Support Branch Chief. The CapComs and the Cape Crusaders worked for me. I coordinated their activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was looking at your biosheet, and it said you were in prelaunch Shuttle processing and launch and landing operations. So I assumed that was code for Cape Crusader."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was during the VITT Office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was during the VITT."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00389:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 38.328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was not. I was not, they worked for me. I think it was called the Flight Support Branch. I was the Flight Support Branch Chief. The CapComs and the Cape Crusaders worked for me. I coordinated their activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was looking at your biosheet, and it said you were in prelaunch Shuttle processing and launch and landing operations. So I assumed that was code for Cape Crusader."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was during the VITT Office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was during the VITT."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sometimes thought I never got to be a Cape Crusader because they looked and they said, “Well, you did that as a VITT person, so we want you to do other things to broaden your [experience].” Once I became a CapCom—I had a few crews come back, and they were just very positive about the work I did as a CapCom. I always thought it was because I spoke slowly with a distinct Southern accent. It gave me credibility. They figure someone who speaks like that can’t be smart enough to deceive us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you tell us about finding out you were assigned finally to a flight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 26.76791289066406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I joined NASA, it was the Manned Spacecraft Center [MSC] at that time, in 1962. I had previously worked for the Air Force and found this really an exhilarating opportunity for me, when I joined NASA. Later I became Chief of Public Information and spent about sixteen years in that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have interest as a younger person in journalism?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had a background in journalism. I had a degree in journalism."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You served in the [United States] Air Force, I think from 1952 to 1959. Tell us about that time period. Did you do any field of journalism there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, I did do some journalism when I was stationed mainly at England Air Force Base, and that was I ran, among other things, the base newspaper, which was named\\n\\n The Tiger Talk\\n\\n . That was a very interesting time to me. The commander of the base was an unusual fellow. His name was William A. Daniel. He’s a little short guy. But he was something else. In fact, he had a philosophy that says don’t ever use the word “don’t.” It’s kind of like when you’d see a sign that says, “Don’t walk on the grass,” he’d say, “Use the sidewalk.” It was very interesting period.\\n\\n Then I was later stationed in Taiwan—Taipei, Taiwan—as a public information officer. So, yes, I did have some background in the Air Force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then after you left the Air Force, or was it when you were still in the Air Force you went to the University of Houston?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.631014322960066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had a background in journalism. I had a degree in journalism."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You served in the [United States] Air Force, I think from 1952 to 1959. Tell us about that time period. Did you do any field of journalism there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, I did do some journalism when I was stationed mainly at England Air Force Base, and that was I ran, among other things, the base newspaper, which was named\\n\\n The Tiger Talk\\n\\n . That was a very interesting time to me. The commander of the base was an unusual fellow. His name was William A. Daniel. He’s a little short guy. But he was something else. In fact, he had a philosophy that says don’t ever use the word “don’t.” It’s kind of like when you’d see a sign that says, “Don’t walk on the grass,” he’d say, “Use the sidewalk.” It was very interesting period.\\n\\n Then I was later stationed in Taiwan—Taipei, Taiwan—as a public information officer. So, yes, I did have some background in the Air Force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then after you left the Air Force, or was it when you were still in the Air Force you went to the University of Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did go to the University of Houston when I was in the Air Force. I had spent most of my career at Rice [University] in Houston, and then transferred because Rice did not have a degree in journalism, and I could also fashion something called Operation Bootstrap, get a degree in six months from the University of Houston.\\n\\n Then after that I somehow ended up working at Ellington Field or Ellington Air Force Base [Houston, Texas] just prior to joining NASA. That was very interesting, because I guess I caught NASA’s attention when we had a big air show, which attracted, gosh, probably 100,000 people in one day to watch the demonstration. We had both the [U.S. Navy] Blue Angels and the [U.S. Air Force] Thunderbirds perform, plus a lot of other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you might have attracted NASA’s attention then."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.701127025511184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, I did do some journalism when I was stationed mainly at England Air Force Base, and that was I ran, among other things, the base newspaper, which was named\\n\\n The Tiger Talk\\n\\n . That was a very interesting time to me. The commander of the base was an unusual fellow. His name was William A. Daniel. He’s a little short guy. But he was something else. In fact, he had a philosophy that says don’t ever use the word “don’t.” It’s kind of like when you’d see a sign that says, “Don’t walk on the grass,” he’d say, “Use the sidewalk.” It was very interesting period.\\n\\n Then I was later stationed in Taiwan—Taipei, Taiwan—as a public information officer. So, yes, I did have some background in the Air Force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then after you left the Air Force, or was it when you were still in the Air Force you went to the University of Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did go to the University of Houston when I was in the Air Force. I had spent most of my career at Rice [University] in Houston, and then transferred because Rice did not have a degree in journalism, and I could also fashion something called Operation Bootstrap, get a degree in six months from the University of Houston.\\n\\n Then after that I somehow ended up working at Ellington Field or Ellington Air Force Base [Houston, Texas] just prior to joining NASA. That was very interesting, because I guess I caught NASA’s attention when we had a big air show, which attracted, gosh, probably 100,000 people in one day to watch the demonstration. We had both the [U.S. Navy] Blue Angels and the [U.S. Air Force] Thunderbirds perform, plus a lot of other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you might have attracted NASA’s attention then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they recruit you to work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.77903002834576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did go to the University of Houston when I was in the Air Force. I had spent most of my career at Rice [University] in Houston, and then transferred because Rice did not have a degree in journalism, and I could also fashion something called Operation Bootstrap, get a degree in six months from the University of Houston.\\n\\n Then after that I somehow ended up working at Ellington Field or Ellington Air Force Base [Houston, Texas] just prior to joining NASA. That was very interesting, because I guess I caught NASA’s attention when we had a big air show, which attracted, gosh, probably 100,000 people in one day to watch the demonstration. We had both the [U.S. Navy] Blue Angels and the [U.S. Air Force] Thunderbirds perform, plus a lot of other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you might have attracted NASA’s attention then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they recruit you to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was contacted by a fellow who was my boss for a period of time. His name was Ben Gillespie, and I guess Ben has long since left NASA. In fact, well, as far as I know, he may still live in Houston, probably does. But Ben was the fellow that really kind of attracted me to join them, and I never regretted it, obviously, because it turned out to be kind of a fulfilling career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you doing at the time when he contacted you to join?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.976700031495287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they recruit you to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was contacted by a fellow who was my boss for a period of time. His name was Ben Gillespie, and I guess Ben has long since left NASA. In fact, well, as far as I know, he may still live in Houston, probably does. But Ben was the fellow that really kind of attracted me to join them, and I never regretted it, obviously, because it turned out to be kind of a fulfilling career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you doing at the time when he contacted you to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working at Ellington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the Air Force."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.41855559055032, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was contacted by a fellow who was my boss for a period of time. His name was Ben Gillespie, and I guess Ben has long since left NASA. In fact, well, as far as I know, he may still live in Houston, probably does. But Ben was the fellow that really kind of attracted me to join them, and I never regretted it, obviously, because it turned out to be kind of a fulfilling career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you doing at the time when he contacted you to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working at Ellington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the Air Force."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time, Russia, or the Soviet Union, had launched Sputnik, and you were part of the Air Force at that time. What were your thoughts on this whole new space era?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.020617322833687, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working at Ellington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the Air Force."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time, Russia, or the Soviet Union, had launched Sputnik, and you were part of the Air Force at that time. What were your thoughts on this whole new space era?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I found it kind of an exciting thing to do. It was quite different. I had worked in the Air Force, and I guess I had left the Air Force and lived in Dallas for a short period of time and had published a book named—it was kind of a photographic book with a lot of pictures about the Air Force. But, no, I got very excited about the prospect of joining NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Mr. Gillespie talked to you about your potential job, what did he tell you that you would be doing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 24.467352580926317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time, Russia, or the Soviet Union, had launched Sputnik, and you were part of the Air Force at that time. What were your thoughts on this whole new space era?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I found it kind of an exciting thing to do. It was quite different. I had worked in the Air Force, and I guess I had left the Air Force and lived in Dallas for a short period of time and had published a book named—it was kind of a photographic book with a lot of pictures about the Air Force. But, no, I got very excited about the prospect of joining NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Mr. Gillespie talked to you about your potential job, what did he tell you that you would be doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I joined him. He ran what was then called the Industry Communications Department, which [Lieutenant Colonel John A.] “Shorty” Powers was the chief of public affairs at the time, and I guess Shorty had all these little fragmented departments, and we were a little fragmented department. That’s what I did first.\\n\\n Well, I guess after we were there for a period of time, well, it was much later, I guess in 1968, I think is when I became Chief of Public Information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe for us what it was like those first days that you joined—as in the Industry Communications? How was Public Affairs organized and the structure and what were your duties?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.519280645473685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I found it kind of an exciting thing to do. It was quite different. I had worked in the Air Force, and I guess I had left the Air Force and lived in Dallas for a short period of time and had published a book named—it was kind of a photographic book with a lot of pictures about the Air Force. But, no, I got very excited about the prospect of joining NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Mr. Gillespie talked to you about your potential job, what did he tell you that you would be doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I joined him. He ran what was then called the Industry Communications Department, which [Lieutenant Colonel John A.] “Shorty” Powers was the chief of public affairs at the time, and I guess Shorty had all these little fragmented departments, and we were a little fragmented department. That’s what I did first.\\n\\n Well, I guess after we were there for a period of time, well, it was much later, I guess in 1968, I think is when I became Chief of Public Information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe for us what it was like those first days that you joined—as in the Industry Communications? How was Public Affairs organized and the structure and what were your duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, as I mentioned there were a number of small little fragmented organizations that we had – the Industry Communications Section, or Branch. We had the Internal Communications Branch. There was, I guess, the Public Information Branch, which should have been much more active than I guess it was. It was just a number of just small fragmented operations. I guess that was Shorty’s style. I’m sure you’ve heard of Shorty Powers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Where were you housed when you joined the staff?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.79920071719298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I joined him. He ran what was then called the Industry Communications Department, which [Lieutenant Colonel John A.] “Shorty” Powers was the chief of public affairs at the time, and I guess Shorty had all these little fragmented departments, and we were a little fragmented department. That’s what I did first.\\n\\n Well, I guess after we were there for a period of time, well, it was much later, I guess in 1968, I think is when I became Chief of Public Information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe for us what it was like those first days that you joined—as in the Industry Communications? How was Public Affairs organized and the structure and what were your duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, as I mentioned there were a number of small little fragmented organizations that we had – the Industry Communications Section, or Branch. We had the Internal Communications Branch. There was, I guess, the Public Information Branch, which should have been much more active than I guess it was. It was just a number of just small fragmented operations. I guess that was Shorty’s style. I’m sure you’ve heard of Shorty Powers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Where were you housed when you joined the staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where did I live?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, where was your office? Was the Industry Communications group with the rest of the group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.77688968576998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, as I mentioned there were a number of small little fragmented organizations that we had – the Industry Communications Section, or Branch. We had the Internal Communications Branch. There was, I guess, the Public Information Branch, which should have been much more active than I guess it was. It was just a number of just small fragmented operations. I guess that was Shorty’s style. I’m sure you’ve heard of Shorty Powers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Where were you housed when you joined the staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where did I live?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, where was your office? Was the Industry Communications group with the rest of the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no. Well, remember back in those days we were located in various offices throughout Houston. Our office—well, we moved from the Honeywell Building to a building named the Peachy Building. I guess it was owned by a fellow name Truitt Peachy, who I had known when I was in college at Rice. The last assignment that I recall is we were at the Peachy Building before we moved to the Center itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the entire Public Affairs Office [PAO] in that building or was it just your branch?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.974321873077756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where did I live?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, where was your office? Was the Industry Communications group with the rest of the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no. Well, remember back in those days we were located in various offices throughout Houston. Our office—well, we moved from the Honeywell Building to a building named the Peachy Building. I guess it was owned by a fellow name Truitt Peachy, who I had known when I was in college at Rice. The last assignment that I recall is we were at the Peachy Building before we moved to the Center itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the entire Public Affairs Office [PAO] in that building or was it just your branch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Our branch and I think maybe one or two others, but I don’t recall now for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there ever a time that all the branches got together for a staff meeting or briefing or communications?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.971468747864172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no. Well, remember back in those days we were located in various offices throughout Houston. Our office—well, we moved from the Honeywell Building to a building named the Peachy Building. I guess it was owned by a fellow name Truitt Peachy, who I had known when I was in college at Rice. The last assignment that I recall is we were at the Peachy Building before we moved to the Center itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the entire Public Affairs Office [PAO] in that building or was it just your branch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Our branch and I think maybe one or two others, but I don’t recall now for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there ever a time that all the branches got together for a staff meeting or briefing or communications?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when we moved eventually to the Manned Spacecraft Center offices, we had our office, it was mainly in a building across the NASA [Road] 1 in Building Number 6, I believe—maybe you know this—which was a rather large building. Now, we were all located in that building for a period of time. Well, that was a while back, too. As a matter of fact, that’s where we were located when the Apollo 1 fire occurred. I recall that because it was a terrible night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, while you brought it up, would you like to share those details about that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.634965275404635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Our branch and I think maybe one or two others, but I don’t recall now for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there ever a time that all the branches got together for a staff meeting or briefing or communications?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when we moved eventually to the Manned Spacecraft Center offices, we had our office, it was mainly in a building across the NASA [Road] 1 in Building Number 6, I believe—maybe you know this—which was a rather large building. Now, we were all located in that building for a period of time. Well, that was a while back, too. As a matter of fact, that’s where we were located when the Apollo 1 fire occurred. I recall that because it was a terrible night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, while you brought it up, would you like to share those details about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yes. Well, I guess it was a Friday night, and we were all getting ready to go to a party for a fellow named [Albert M.] Al Chop, who at that time I think Chop was the deputy to Shorty. I forget the reason for the party, maybe it was a birthday or whatever. But in any case, after all of this happened, obviously we never made it to the party. It was a horrible evening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you receive the word?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.14996141711626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when we moved eventually to the Manned Spacecraft Center offices, we had our office, it was mainly in a building across the NASA [Road] 1 in Building Number 6, I believe—maybe you know this—which was a rather large building. Now, we were all located in that building for a period of time. Well, that was a while back, too. As a matter of fact, that’s where we were located when the Apollo 1 fire occurred. I recall that because it was a terrible night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, while you brought it up, would you like to share those details about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yes. Well, I guess it was a Friday night, and we were all getting ready to go to a party for a fellow named [Albert M.] Al Chop, who at that time I think Chop was the deputy to Shorty. I forget the reason for the party, maybe it was a birthday or whatever. But in any case, after all of this happened, obviously we never made it to the party. It was a horrible evening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you receive the word?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we kept getting phone calls from the Cape, from KSC, from the Kennedy Space Center, and that started it. I guess it finally evolved where we knew for sure that the crew were all dead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your position at the time? Were you the chief?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.83329046346251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yes. Well, I guess it was a Friday night, and we were all getting ready to go to a party for a fellow named [Albert M.] Al Chop, who at that time I think Chop was the deputy to Shorty. I forget the reason for the party, maybe it was a birthday or whatever. But in any case, after all of this happened, obviously we never made it to the party. It was a horrible evening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you receive the word?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we kept getting phone calls from the Cape, from KSC, from the Kennedy Space Center, and that started it. I guess it finally evolved where we knew for sure that the crew were all dead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your position at the time? Were you the chief?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, at that time I was the Deputy Chief of, I guess, Public Information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then as that role, what were your responsibilities regarding the Apollo 1 fire? What were some of the duties that you had to be responsible for?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.7036560705139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we kept getting phone calls from the Cape, from KSC, from the Kennedy Space Center, and that started it. I guess it finally evolved where we knew for sure that the crew were all dead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your position at the time? Were you the chief?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, at that time I was the Deputy Chief of, I guess, Public Information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then as that role, what were your responsibilities regarding the Apollo 1 fire? What were some of the duties that you had to be responsible for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I became very involved in some of the news releases and answers to inquiries. When that kind of thing happens, sometimes it can become very burdensome. We had a system set up where you had to clear everything through a group of people. It became very unwieldy. We did end up doing that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had been there about three years, I think."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.337395633904332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, at that time I was the Deputy Chief of, I guess, Public Information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then as that role, what were your responsibilities regarding the Apollo 1 fire? What were some of the duties that you had to be responsible for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I became very involved in some of the news releases and answers to inquiries. When that kind of thing happens, sometimes it can become very burdensome. We had a system set up where you had to clear everything through a group of people. It became very unwieldy. We did end up doing that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had been there about three years, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. Yes. Well, let’s see. When I joined NASA, it was just before [Walter M.] Wally Schirra’s [Jr.] first Mercury mission. That would have been, what, August, I believe, of probably [19]‘62."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Mercury? No, the Gemini with Schirra as December [19]‘65."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.152661815449257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I became very involved in some of the news releases and answers to inquiries. When that kind of thing happens, sometimes it can become very burdensome. We had a system set up where you had to clear everything through a group of people. It became very unwieldy. We did end up doing that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had been there about three years, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. Yes. Well, let’s see. When I joined NASA, it was just before [Walter M.] Wally Schirra’s [Jr.] first Mercury mission. That would have been, what, August, I believe, of probably [19]‘62."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Mercury? No, the Gemini with Schirra as December [19]‘65."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. His first, his Mercury."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "His Mercury, October [19]‘62."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.169624239388064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. Yes. Well, let’s see. When I joined NASA, it was just before [Walter M.] Wally Schirra’s [Jr.] first Mercury mission. That would have been, what, August, I believe, of probably [19]‘62."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Mercury? No, the Gemini with Schirra as December [19]‘65."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. His first, his Mercury."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "His Mercury, October [19]‘62."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had been there several years."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.41069359932007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. His first, his Mercury."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "His Mercury, October [19]‘62."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had been there several years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have training as you went through those years to prepare you for that new role or was it a lot of on-the-job training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 24.90077066591119, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had been there several years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have training as you went through those years to prepare you for that new role or was it a lot of on-the-job training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was mostly on-the-job training. You did not have any formal kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you become informed and educated on the hardware and the systems and spacecraft that the astronauts were using?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.000856295456877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have training as you went through those years to prepare you for that new role or was it a lot of on-the-job training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was mostly on-the-job training. You did not have any formal kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you become informed and educated on the hardware and the systems and spacecraft that the astronauts were using?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you tended to do that a lot through your own studies. I don’t know if you’ve seen them or not, but back in those days the contractor would put together these detailed books on the hardware. I guess McDonnell Douglas [McDonnell Aircraft Corporation] did it for Gemini, and North American [Aviation, Inc.] did it for the Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Public Affairs was given a copy of those?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 23.334284772729863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was mostly on-the-job training. You did not have any formal kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you become informed and educated on the hardware and the systems and spacecraft that the astronauts were using?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you tended to do that a lot through your own studies. I don’t know if you’ve seen them or not, but back in those days the contractor would put together these detailed books on the hardware. I guess McDonnell Douglas [McDonnell Aircraft Corporation] did it for Gemini, and North American [Aviation, Inc.] did it for the Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Public Affairs was given a copy of those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had copies of those, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was basically your own responsibility to inform yourself?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.482538636366513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you tended to do that a lot through your own studies. I don’t know if you’ve seen them or not, but back in those days the contractor would put together these detailed books on the hardware. I guess McDonnell Douglas [McDonnell Aircraft Corporation] did it for Gemini, and North American [Aviation, Inc.] did it for the Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Public Affairs was given a copy of those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had copies of those, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was basically your own responsibility to inform yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You’d try to do that as much as you could. I ended up even writing a piece or two for [Dr. Robert R.] Gilruth for one of the publications, I guess one of Grumman’s [Grumman Aircraft Engineering Corporation] publications, and then also an article where he was supposed to look out a hundred years from now and see what it would look like in 1960—well, I guess it would be 2069 or 2065 or 6 or 7, whatever.\\n\\n But, yes, it was a very interesting time because a lot of things were happening. As far as public affairs, you were really dealing with first-rate newspeople. It was like the Walter Cronkites and the Dan Rathers and so on. I had known Rather in Houston before, before he left and went on to work for the network. In fact, I guess Rather was in Dallas [Texas] the day [President John F.] Kennedy was assassinated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so, yes."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.536154040407236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had copies of those, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was basically your own responsibility to inform yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You’d try to do that as much as you could. I ended up even writing a piece or two for [Dr. Robert R.] Gilruth for one of the publications, I guess one of Grumman’s [Grumman Aircraft Engineering Corporation] publications, and then also an article where he was supposed to look out a hundred years from now and see what it would look like in 1960—well, I guess it would be 2069 or 2065 or 6 or 7, whatever.\\n\\n But, yes, it was a very interesting time because a lot of things were happening. As far as public affairs, you were really dealing with first-rate newspeople. It was like the Walter Cronkites and the Dan Rathers and so on. I had known Rather in Houston before, before he left and went on to work for the network. In fact, I guess Rather was in Dallas [Texas] the day [President John F.] Kennedy was assassinated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s when he became, I guess, the White House correspondent because of [President] Lyndon [B.] Johnson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time period when Public Affairs and you were evolving, what was the mission of Public Affairs? So many people have different ideas and perceptions of what Public Affairs was supposed to do or is doing. Could you share with us, as a Public Affairs person, what you were trying to accomplish?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.706837822674707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You’d try to do that as much as you could. I ended up even writing a piece or two for [Dr. Robert R.] Gilruth for one of the publications, I guess one of Grumman’s [Grumman Aircraft Engineering Corporation] publications, and then also an article where he was supposed to look out a hundred years from now and see what it would look like in 1960—well, I guess it would be 2069 or 2065 or 6 or 7, whatever.\\n\\n But, yes, it was a very interesting time because a lot of things were happening. As far as public affairs, you were really dealing with first-rate newspeople. It was like the Walter Cronkites and the Dan Rathers and so on. I had known Rather in Houston before, before he left and went on to work for the network. In fact, I guess Rather was in Dallas [Texas] the day [President John F.] Kennedy was assassinated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s when he became, I guess, the White House correspondent because of [President] Lyndon [B.] Johnson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time period when Public Affairs and you were evolving, what was the mission of Public Affairs? So many people have different ideas and perceptions of what Public Affairs was supposed to do or is doing. Could you share with us, as a Public Affairs person, what you were trying to accomplish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in our own case I think we were trying to really get the word out as much as possible and tell the truth as much as you could. You’re right, there was all sorts of conceptions about what Public Affairs was supposed to do or should be doing, and I think that’s probably still true and maybe even more so today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find yourself, or the other officers as well find themselves sometimes not knowing what direction to give information because the press was asking one thing and internally the employees might be expecting another one? How were you able to stay on your mission and provide that information in a timely manner?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.007597580749675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s when he became, I guess, the White House correspondent because of [President] Lyndon [B.] Johnson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time period when Public Affairs and you were evolving, what was the mission of Public Affairs? So many people have different ideas and perceptions of what Public Affairs was supposed to do or is doing. Could you share with us, as a Public Affairs person, what you were trying to accomplish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in our own case I think we were trying to really get the word out as much as possible and tell the truth as much as you could. You’re right, there was all sorts of conceptions about what Public Affairs was supposed to do or should be doing, and I think that’s probably still true and maybe even more so today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find yourself, or the other officers as well find themselves sometimes not knowing what direction to give information because the press was asking one thing and internally the employees might be expecting another one? How were you able to stay on your mission and provide that information in a timely manner?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think you did just the best you can, and you tried to make it as timely as you could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did every piece of information that came out of the Manned Spacecraft Center during those early days, did it come through the Public Affairs Office or each branch and directorate allowed to issue their own information?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.34177508972186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in our own case I think we were trying to really get the word out as much as possible and tell the truth as much as you could. You’re right, there was all sorts of conceptions about what Public Affairs was supposed to do or should be doing, and I think that’s probably still true and maybe even more so today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find yourself, or the other officers as well find themselves sometimes not knowing what direction to give information because the press was asking one thing and internally the employees might be expecting another one? How were you able to stay on your mission and provide that information in a timely manner?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think you did just the best you can, and you tried to make it as timely as you could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did every piece of information that came out of the Manned Spacecraft Center during those early days, did it come through the Public Affairs Office or each branch and directorate allowed to issue their own information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was mainly through the Public Affairs or Public Information Office. Not totally, but I would say in the mainstream would be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a guideline, say, from Dr. Gilruth or any other manager that said this is how internal and external communications will be handled?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.490861210802066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think you did just the best you can, and you tried to make it as timely as you could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did every piece of information that came out of the Manned Spacecraft Center during those early days, did it come through the Public Affairs Office or each branch and directorate allowed to issue their own information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was mainly through the Public Affairs or Public Information Office. Not totally, but I would say in the mainstream would be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a guideline, say, from Dr. Gilruth or any other manager that said this is how internal and external communications will be handled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much through Gilruth. Gilruth tended to be more of a hands-off kind of person, as I recall, as far as public affairs. I think he was always sort of fascinated by it. But in NASA Headquarters there was a fellow named Julian [W.] Scheer, and Scheer was very much involved as far as providing direction and so on. Then Paul [P.] Haney eventually had become the Public Affairs Officer in Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Haney create a structure, a different structure than Shorty Powers once he got there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.767623567557852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was mainly through the Public Affairs or Public Information Office. Not totally, but I would say in the mainstream would be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a guideline, say, from Dr. Gilruth or any other manager that said this is how internal and external communications will be handled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much through Gilruth. Gilruth tended to be more of a hands-off kind of person, as I recall, as far as public affairs. I think he was always sort of fascinated by it. But in NASA Headquarters there was a fellow named Julian [W.] Scheer, and Scheer was very much involved as far as providing direction and so on. Then Paul [P.] Haney eventually had become the Public Affairs Officer in Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Haney create a structure, a different structure than Shorty Powers once he got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would say he did. I think Haney was probably a little better organized. Shorty was very fragmented in the way he had the organization going. Haney was probably not a great organization guy himself. Haney became very involved as far as the mission commentary. I later ended up as a mission commentator myself, and that was one of the jobs you had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your role change when Mr. Haney took over? Did he move you into a different direction?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.96402618617539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much through Gilruth. Gilruth tended to be more of a hands-off kind of person, as I recall, as far as public affairs. I think he was always sort of fascinated by it. But in NASA Headquarters there was a fellow named Julian [W.] Scheer, and Scheer was very much involved as far as providing direction and so on. Then Paul [P.] Haney eventually had become the Public Affairs Officer in Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Haney create a structure, a different structure than Shorty Powers once he got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would say he did. I think Haney was probably a little better organized. Shorty was very fragmented in the way he had the organization going. Haney was probably not a great organization guy himself. Haney became very involved as far as the mission commentary. I later ended up as a mission commentator myself, and that was one of the jobs you had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your role change when Mr. Haney took over? Did he move you into a different direction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure he did at first. My boss for a while was a fellow named Howard Gibbons. He was the public information chief. Then Gibbons, I guess, got kind of moved aside, and then I became the Chief Of Public Information in—actually, I guess that was 1968."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a large staff?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.293362429083766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would say he did. I think Haney was probably a little better organized. Shorty was very fragmented in the way he had the organization going. Haney was probably not a great organization guy himself. Haney became very involved as far as the mission commentary. I later ended up as a mission commentator myself, and that was one of the jobs you had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your role change when Mr. Haney took over? Did he move you into a different direction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure he did at first. My boss for a while was a fellow named Howard Gibbons. He was the public information chief. Then Gibbons, I guess, got kind of moved aside, and then I became the Chief Of Public Information in—actually, I guess that was 1968."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a large staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Reasonably sized, I’d say fifteen or sixteen people, plus the support contractor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us some of the equipment and how you handled to move information from the center? I think so many times when people look back on history, they forget that the technology is very historic as well. We didn’t have computers. We didn’t have fax machines. Could you share with us on how you were able to release some of that out?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.770402698981963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure he did at first. My boss for a while was a fellow named Howard Gibbons. He was the public information chief. Then Gibbons, I guess, got kind of moved aside, and then I became the Chief Of Public Information in—actually, I guess that was 1968."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a large staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Reasonably sized, I’d say fifteen or sixteen people, plus the support contractor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us some of the equipment and how you handled to move information from the center? I think so many times when people look back on history, they forget that the technology is very historic as well. We didn’t have computers. We didn’t have fax machines. Could you share with us on how you were able to release some of that out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there weren’t computers, that’s right, that we used back in those days. We were very big on mission commentary and the transcription of it. That became very much a major project, and putting together the way to make that come out in a timely fashion was very important. Let me think. Well, it was just a very important thing, that you wanted to make sure that you had it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it somewhat labor-intensive as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.411558554424403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Reasonably sized, I’d say fifteen or sixteen people, plus the support contractor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us some of the equipment and how you handled to move information from the center? I think so many times when people look back on history, they forget that the technology is very historic as well. We didn’t have computers. We didn’t have fax machines. Could you share with us on how you were able to release some of that out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there weren’t computers, that’s right, that we used back in those days. We were very big on mission commentary and the transcription of it. That became very much a major project, and putting together the way to make that come out in a timely fashion was very important. Let me think. Well, it was just a very important thing, that you wanted to make sure that you had it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it somewhat labor-intensive as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Yes, we had these transcript typists, and they would be in these little booths and hopefully typing away and putting the stuff together accurately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that real time or did they read off tapes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.261183400523954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Yes, we had these transcript typists, and they would be in these little booths and hopefully typing away and putting the stuff together accurately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that real time or did they read off tapes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was real time. They were doing it as the mission was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was different, you know. I don’t think they do that anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the transcriptions were done, then were there copies made for the press?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.29020377835995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was real time. They were doing it as the mission was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was different, you know. I don’t think they do that anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the transcriptions were done, then were there copies made for the press?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was the intent. The intent was to mass-reproduce them for the press. That would also include like we would have—what do they call them—during missions, change-of-shift news conferences or briefings. That would normally involve, say, a flight director like, say, a [Eugene F.] Gene Kranz or a [Christopher C.] Chris Kraft or whoever it was on duty at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were these held?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 20.322448642622167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was different, you know. I don’t think they do that anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the transcriptions were done, then were there copies made for the press?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was the intent. The intent was to mass-reproduce them for the press. That would also include like we would have—what do they call them—during missions, change-of-shift news conferences or briefings. That would normally involve, say, a flight director like, say, a [Eugene F.] Gene Kranz or a [Christopher C.] Chris Kraft or whoever it was on duty at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were these held?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "These were held, as it turned out, we had moved into what used to be Building 1, which became Building 2, I think, and they were held in there, in that small conference room. I don’t know, you’ve probably seen it, I’ll bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during that time period because everything was new and things continued to change, how were press credentials handed out and how did you certify who was allowed to come on site to participate in those news conferences? How was that all handled?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.247165158469073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was the intent. The intent was to mass-reproduce them for the press. That would also include like we would have—what do they call them—during missions, change-of-shift news conferences or briefings. That would normally involve, say, a flight director like, say, a [Eugene F.] Gene Kranz or a [Christopher C.] Chris Kraft or whoever it was on duty at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were these held?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "These were held, as it turned out, we had moved into what used to be Building 1, which became Building 2, I think, and they were held in there, in that small conference room. I don’t know, you’ve probably seen it, I’ll bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during that time period because everything was new and things continued to change, how were press credentials handed out and how did you certify who was allowed to come on site to participate in those news conferences? How was that all handled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you did a combination of things. I guess you had some that would come from NASA Headquarters [Washington, D.C.], some from [NASA] Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama], and some from Kennedy [Space Center, Florida] , and some from JSC [Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas]. You’d normally just certify them. Someone like myself would look at it and say, “Okay, this guy is okay,” or, “This one is not.” That was pretty much the way. It was a judgmental call, most of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have quite a few, once the missions started, since Gemini IV, once the missions started being controlled from the MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room] at MSC?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.052405731632303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These were held, as it turned out, we had moved into what used to be Building 1, which became Building 2, I think, and they were held in there, in that small conference room. I don’t know, you’ve probably seen it, I’ll bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during that time period because everything was new and things continued to change, how were press credentials handed out and how did you certify who was allowed to come on site to participate in those news conferences? How was that all handled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you did a combination of things. I guess you had some that would come from NASA Headquarters [Washington, D.C.], some from [NASA] Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama], and some from Kennedy [Space Center, Florida] , and some from JSC [Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas]. You’d normally just certify them. Someone like myself would look at it and say, “Okay, this guy is okay,” or, “This one is not.” That was pretty much the way. It was a judgmental call, most of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have quite a few, once the missions started, since Gemini IV, once the missions started being controlled from the MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room] at MSC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. I would say the peak number was probably Apollo 11, and we had maybe 1,200, 1,500 press. It was a very, very busy time.\\n\\n Then, of course, Apollo 13 was turned out into a whole different world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it did. Yes, it did. What other materials were available for the press during the Gemini-Apollo time? You mentioned that mission transcriptions. Did you also have press kits available for them at the time before?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.947117479591448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you did a combination of things. I guess you had some that would come from NASA Headquarters [Washington, D.C.], some from [NASA] Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama], and some from Kennedy [Space Center, Florida] , and some from JSC [Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas]. You’d normally just certify them. Someone like myself would look at it and say, “Okay, this guy is okay,” or, “This one is not.” That was pretty much the way. It was a judgmental call, most of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have quite a few, once the missions started, since Gemini IV, once the missions started being controlled from the MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room] at MSC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. I would say the peak number was probably Apollo 11, and we had maybe 1,200, 1,500 press. It was a very, very busy time.\\n\\n Then, of course, Apollo 13 was turned out into a whole different world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it did. Yes, it did. What other materials were available for the press during the Gemini-Apollo time? You mentioned that mission transcriptions. Did you also have press kits available for them at the time before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. You had press kits that were released before. That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that all under your operation as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.941241643990498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. I would say the peak number was probably Apollo 11, and we had maybe 1,200, 1,500 press. It was a very, very busy time.\\n\\n Then, of course, Apollo 13 was turned out into a whole different world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it did. Yes, it did. What other materials were available for the press during the Gemini-Apollo time? You mentioned that mission transcriptions. Did you also have press kits available for them at the time before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. You had press kits that were released before. That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that all under your operation as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The information that belonged in that press kit, where did that come from?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.93471293776722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. You had press kits that were released before. That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that all under your operation as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The information that belonged in that press kit, where did that come from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That came from a combination of places, mainly from JSC or from the MSC, whatever we were at the time. But most of it originated from with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Public Affairs still segmented into the different areas then? For instance, did the Industry Communications give you information?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.038569930852466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The information that belonged in that press kit, where did that come from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That came from a combination of places, mainly from JSC or from the MSC, whatever we were at the time. But most of it originated from with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Public Affairs still segmented into the different areas then? For instance, did the Industry Communications give you information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. That had gone away. That had become sort of a subactivity within the Public Information Branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The information about the hardware or about the spacecraft or space suits, the technical information, where did your staff get that information?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.153966589836074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That came from a combination of places, mainly from JSC or from the MSC, whatever we were at the time. But most of it originated from with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Public Affairs still segmented into the different areas then? For instance, did the Industry Communications give you information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. That had gone away. That had become sort of a subactivity within the Public Information Branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The information about the hardware or about the spacecraft or space suits, the technical information, where did your staff get that information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you got it mainly from the contractors. Like the space suit, for example, was from—I’m trying to recall who the contractor was. I think it was—was it Latex [International Latex Corporation]? Might have been. But that kind of information mainly came from the contractors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever travel to the contractors’ facilities to do those?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.39329621092897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. That had gone away. That had become sort of a subactivity within the Public Information Branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The information about the hardware or about the spacecraft or space suits, the technical information, where did your staff get that information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you got it mainly from the contractors. Like the space suit, for example, was from—I’m trying to recall who the contractor was. I think it was—was it Latex [International Latex Corporation]? Might have been. But that kind of information mainly came from the contractors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever travel to the contractors’ facilities to do those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there one that was more memorable to you than others that you remember going and actually witnessing the making of the equipment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.325884678809967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you got it mainly from the contractors. Like the space suit, for example, was from—I’m trying to recall who the contractor was. I think it was—was it Latex [International Latex Corporation]? Might have been. But that kind of information mainly came from the contractors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever travel to the contractors’ facilities to do those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there one that was more memorable to you than others that you remember going and actually witnessing the making of the equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m trying to recall if there was. I went to Rockwell, or North American [North American Rockwell Incorporated] several times and had gone to Grumman at least once or twice and to McDonnell [McDonnell Douglas Corporation] a time or two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this to gain information?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.513437875074032, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m trying to recall if there was. I went to Rockwell, or North American [North American Rockwell Incorporated] several times and had gone to Grumman at least once or twice and to McDonnell [McDonnell Douglas Corporation] a time or two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this to gain information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, mainly. Mainly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An understanding?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did those trips help you later when you were doing commentary?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.792708750082259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, mainly. Mainly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An understanding?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did those trips help you later when you were doing commentary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they would help. They did help, indeed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Regarding the responsibility of Public Affairs in external release information, did you help train other employees at the MSC in what they could or could not say to the press, for instance, the flight directors or the flight controllers or the engineers, those type of people?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.880787500091397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did those trips help you later when you were doing commentary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they would help. They did help, indeed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Regarding the responsibility of Public Affairs in external release information, did you help train other employees at the MSC in what they could or could not say to the press, for instance, the flight directors or the flight controllers or the engineers, those type of people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, maybe to a limited point. It turns out the flight directors were usually pretty savvy in their own right. I don’t think you needed to give much training, say, to a Gene Kranz or to a Chris Kraft, for example, or even like [Sigurd A.] Sig Sjoberg. But, yes, you did some of it, but it was not a major thing by any stretch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was your office that set up the news conferences?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.089763888990442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they would help. They did help, indeed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Regarding the responsibility of Public Affairs in external release information, did you help train other employees at the MSC in what they could or could not say to the press, for instance, the flight directors or the flight controllers or the engineers, those type of people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, maybe to a limited point. It turns out the flight directors were usually pretty savvy in their own right. I don’t think you needed to give much training, say, to a Gene Kranz or to a Chris Kraft, for example, or even like [Sigurd A.] Sig Sjoberg. But, yes, you did some of it, but it was not a major thing by any stretch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was your office that set up the news conferences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how that happened. When were they done as far as a mission was concerned? Was it prior and during and after?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.321959876656047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, maybe to a limited point. It turns out the flight directors were usually pretty savvy in their own right. I don’t think you needed to give much training, say, to a Gene Kranz or to a Chris Kraft, for example, or even like [Sigurd A.] Sig Sjoberg. But, yes, you did some of it, but it was not a major thing by any stretch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was your office that set up the news conferences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how that happened. When were they done as far as a mission was concerned? Was it prior and during and after?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was prior, during, and after. It was all three. We had the astronauts, we would normally set up the crew, the next crew to fly, and that was done sometime in advance of the mission, usually a couple of weeks in advance or maybe three or four at the most. We would normally do that two ways. We would have the news conference plus what we called round-robin interviews where major networks, for example, and publications would be able to interview them individually, each astronaut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this all still confined in the news conference room?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.69106652961783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how that happened. When were they done as far as a mission was concerned? Was it prior and during and after?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was prior, during, and after. It was all three. We had the astronauts, we would normally set up the crew, the next crew to fly, and that was done sometime in advance of the mission, usually a couple of weeks in advance or maybe three or four at the most. We would normally do that two ways. We would have the news conference plus what we called round-robin interviews where major networks, for example, and publications would be able to interview them individually, each astronaut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this all still confined in the news conference room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn’t in the news conference room. It was more in the offices around what used to be Building 1, now Building 2. We would use some of the offices and do them that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the missions when you held the conferences, was there a formal announcement of when the conferences were going to be held?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.212296144019811, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was prior, during, and after. It was all three. We had the astronauts, we would normally set up the crew, the next crew to fly, and that was done sometime in advance of the mission, usually a couple of weeks in advance or maybe three or four at the most. We would normally do that two ways. We would have the news conference plus what we called round-robin interviews where major networks, for example, and publications would be able to interview them individually, each astronaut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this all still confined in the news conference room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn’t in the news conference room. It was more in the offices around what used to be Building 1, now Building 2. We would use some of the offices and do them that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the missions when you held the conferences, was there a formal announcement of when the conferences were going to be held?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We would normally put it out over the public information loop, just announce that the next news conference will be next change. We called them change-of-shift briefings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The interest of the public continued to increase during the Mercury and Gemini days, of course. Did that affect the Public Affairs Office? Did the public start to send inquiries, or did they want visits and tours?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.45810682668868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn’t in the news conference room. It was more in the offices around what used to be Building 1, now Building 2. We would use some of the offices and do them that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the missions when you held the conferences, was there a formal announcement of when the conferences were going to be held?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We would normally put it out over the public information loop, just announce that the next news conference will be next change. We called them change-of-shift briefings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The interest of the public continued to increase during the Mercury and Gemini days, of course. Did that affect the Public Affairs Office? Did the public start to send inquiries, or did they want visits and tours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think we had probably an increasing number of tours. I was not involved in the tourist program, but I think we did have a lot of tourists that came about because of the increase in interest, certainly up through Apollo 11 and I guess again through Apollo 13. Apollo 14, of course, that was the [Alan B.] Al Shepard mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Out of the special events and ceremonies and things, was any of those duties under your control as well, or was that a different area of Public Affairs?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.842340918542977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We would normally put it out over the public information loop, just announce that the next news conference will be next change. We called them change-of-shift briefings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The interest of the public continued to increase during the Mercury and Gemini days, of course. Did that affect the Public Affairs Office? Did the public start to send inquiries, or did they want visits and tours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think we had probably an increasing number of tours. I was not involved in the tourist program, but I think we did have a lot of tourists that came about because of the increase in interest, certainly up through Apollo 11 and I guess again through Apollo 13. Apollo 14, of course, that was the [Alan B.] Al Shepard mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Out of the special events and ceremonies and things, was any of those duties under your control as well, or was that a different area of Public Affairs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When you say duties—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had some special events, maybe when the president came to the Center."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.935934353936641, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think we had probably an increasing number of tours. I was not involved in the tourist program, but I think we did have a lot of tourists that came about because of the increase in interest, certainly up through Apollo 11 and I guess again through Apollo 13. Apollo 14, of course, that was the [Alan B.] Al Shepard mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Out of the special events and ceremonies and things, was any of those duties under your control as well, or was that a different area of Public Affairs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When you say duties—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had some special events, maybe when the president came to the Center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we got very involved in that, yes. I guess [President Richard M.] Nixon was there several times, and we became involved with that. The first time he showed up, though, he showed up as a candidate, and I think that was, when, [19]‘68. He showed up as a candidate and the fellow who later became his press secretary—name escapes me. I’ll think of it later.\\n\\n But in any case, he was there. I thought he was sort of a kind of low guy on the totem pole because he was on the press bus. A fellow named Bill Plant, who still works for, I think, CBS [Incorporated], was kind of ordering him around, telling him what to do, and this sort of thing. But I did ride the press bus with them, and we got involved in that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Early in the history of the program at MSC, Time-\\n\\n Life\\n\\n was granted an exclusive agreement with the astronauts to do their stories."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.151038171040712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When you say duties—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had some special events, maybe when the president came to the Center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we got very involved in that, yes. I guess [President Richard M.] Nixon was there several times, and we became involved with that. The first time he showed up, though, he showed up as a candidate, and I think that was, when, [19]‘68. He showed up as a candidate and the fellow who later became his press secretary—name escapes me. I’ll think of it later.\\n\\n But in any case, he was there. I thought he was sort of a kind of low guy on the totem pole because he was on the press bus. A fellow named Bill Plant, who still works for, I think, CBS [Incorporated], was kind of ordering him around, telling him what to do, and this sort of thing. But I did ride the press bus with them, and we got involved in that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Early in the history of the program at MSC, Time-\\n\\n Life\\n\\n was granted an exclusive agreement with the astronauts to do their stories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did this affect the Public Affairs Office? Did it make your job easier or did it give you extra—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.167820190045235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we got very involved in that, yes. I guess [President Richard M.] Nixon was there several times, and we became involved with that. The first time he showed up, though, he showed up as a candidate, and I think that was, when, [19]‘68. He showed up as a candidate and the fellow who later became his press secretary—name escapes me. I’ll think of it later.\\n\\n But in any case, he was there. I thought he was sort of a kind of low guy on the totem pole because he was on the press bus. A fellow named Bill Plant, who still works for, I think, CBS [Incorporated], was kind of ordering him around, telling him what to do, and this sort of thing. But I did ride the press bus with them, and we got involved in that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Early in the history of the program at MSC, Time-\\n\\n Life\\n\\n was granted an exclusive agreement with the astronauts to do their stories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did this affect the Public Affairs Office? Did it make your job easier or did it give you extra—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It probably gave you a few heartburns, the reason being that it’s like they had exclusive rights to stories. That was\\n\\n Life\\n\\n mainly. It was\\n\\n Life\\n\\n magazine.\\n\\n Then later I guess it was\\n\\n World Book\\n\\n became involved, too, and that was more of a Houston operation. They were set up in Houston. But we worked with the\\n\\n Life\\n\\n people reasonably well, I think. A fellow named Ralph Morse was one of their star photographers, and Ralph, we worked out arrangements where he might shoot things and also kind of function as a pool, and we would release some of his photos. So we tried to work around as much as we could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You used the word “heartburn,” so I guess it had pros and cons."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.29757798893915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did this affect the Public Affairs Office? Did it make your job easier or did it give you extra—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It probably gave you a few heartburns, the reason being that it’s like they had exclusive rights to stories. That was\\n\\n Life\\n\\n mainly. It was\\n\\n Life\\n\\n magazine.\\n\\n Then later I guess it was\\n\\n World Book\\n\\n became involved, too, and that was more of a Houston operation. They were set up in Houston. But we worked with the\\n\\n Life\\n\\n people reasonably well, I think. A fellow named Ralph Morse was one of their star photographers, and Ralph, we worked out arrangements where he might shoot things and also kind of function as a pool, and we would release some of his photos. So we tried to work around as much as we could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You used the word “heartburn,” so I guess it had pros and cons."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the other media accept the fact that—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 12.55286443215461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It probably gave you a few heartburns, the reason being that it’s like they had exclusive rights to stories. That was\\n\\n Life\\n\\n mainly. It was\\n\\n Life\\n\\n magazine.\\n\\n Then later I guess it was\\n\\n World Book\\n\\n became involved, too, and that was more of a Houston operation. They were set up in Houston. But we worked with the\\n\\n Life\\n\\n people reasonably well, I think. A fellow named Ralph Morse was one of their star photographers, and Ralph, we worked out arrangements where he might shoot things and also kind of function as a pool, and we would release some of his photos. So we tried to work around as much as we could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You used the word “heartburn,” so I guess it had pros and cons."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the other media accept the fact that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think they liked it. No, they didn’t like it. It was more like an exclusive right to interview the—well, it also evolved into the families, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first encounter with working with the astronauts, or how did you help set those procedures up so that they would work well with the media as well as the media could at least know that the astronauts should have some privacy as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.28096048017179, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the other media accept the fact that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think they liked it. No, they didn’t like it. It was more like an exclusive right to interview the—well, it also evolved into the families, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first encounter with working with the astronauts, or how did you help set those procedures up so that they would work well with the media as well as the media could at least know that the astronauts should have some privacy as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. I became involved with the astronauts in a variety of ways. One, I’d gone on some of the geology field trips with them, to Hawaii was one of more memorable ones. We went to the Big Island of Hawaii, and that was very interesting. I guess they had a couple of teams there. One was the [Charles C.] Pete Conrad group, and then the Neil [A.] Armstrong group. But you became involved in that kind of thing some.\\n\\n But over a period of time, you just kind of put procedures in place much as we had done with the air-to-ground mission commentary stuff as far as setting up the preflight news conferences. Those were kind of known to have to occur and were accepted. You dealt mainly, I guess, with Alan Shepard, because he was functioning more as Chief of the Astronaut Office for a good period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you came up with a procedure, did you take it to Shepard and worked out the details that way?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.089956089079767, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think they liked it. No, they didn’t like it. It was more like an exclusive right to interview the—well, it also evolved into the families, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first encounter with working with the astronauts, or how did you help set those procedures up so that they would work well with the media as well as the media could at least know that the astronauts should have some privacy as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. I became involved with the astronauts in a variety of ways. One, I’d gone on some of the geology field trips with them, to Hawaii was one of more memorable ones. We went to the Big Island of Hawaii, and that was very interesting. I guess they had a couple of teams there. One was the [Charles C.] Pete Conrad group, and then the Neil [A.] Armstrong group. But you became involved in that kind of thing some.\\n\\n But over a period of time, you just kind of put procedures in place much as we had done with the air-to-ground mission commentary stuff as far as setting up the preflight news conferences. Those were kind of known to have to occur and were accepted. You dealt mainly, I guess, with Alan Shepard, because he was functioning more as Chief of the Astronaut Office for a good period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you came up with a procedure, did you take it to Shepard and worked out the details that way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s pretty much the way it turned out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the reception from the astronauts of PAO involvement? Was it something that they considered to be an asset and a benefit or something as a hindrance and an interference?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.419698875407118, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s pretty much the way it turned out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the reception from the astronauts of PAO involvement? Was it something that they considered to be an asset and a benefit or something as a hindrance and an interference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think sort of a mixed bag, if you want my opinion. I think some thought it was very important, some probably did not.\\n\\n Armstrong I found as an extremely interesting guy. I was in quarantine with the Apollo 11 crew after they’d returned from the Moon, and that’s when he had that famous quote, “That’s one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.” I know I kept watching things. You’d see these promos on TV where it looked like he had dropped the A. Well, I talked to him about it in quarantine. I asked him what he said.\\n\\n He said, “Well, I know what I meant to say.” He said, “I meant to say, ‘It’s one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind,’” and that’s kind of the way we played it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that based on reading and research that there seemed to be a perception of tension sometimes between what Public Affairs suggested to happen or want to happen and what engineers or flight controllers or even flight directors would have liked to happen and, of course, in many cases astronauts. One example would be the Apollo 7 flight when Schirra canceled the broadcast of the TV. Can you share some details about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I remember that, but not in that much detail. I think that was more of a combination of Schirra becoming angry with the flight controllers. Because I think Chris Kraft may have ended up getting on the line with him, one of these private lines, and giving him hell, giving Schirra hell. Because Glynn [S.] Lunney, I believe, is the flight director that became directly involved, and I know Lunney was very upset at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to move into possibly asking some questions about specific missions."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.021887639341242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think sort of a mixed bag, if you want my opinion. I think some thought it was very important, some probably did not.\\n\\n Armstrong I found as an extremely interesting guy. I was in quarantine with the Apollo 11 crew after they’d returned from the Moon, and that’s when he had that famous quote, “That’s one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.” I know I kept watching things. You’d see these promos on TV where it looked like he had dropped the A. Well, I talked to him about it in quarantine. I asked him what he said.\\n\\n He said, “Well, I know what I meant to say.” He said, “I meant to say, ‘It’s one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind,’” and that’s kind of the way we played it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that based on reading and research that there seemed to be a perception of tension sometimes between what Public Affairs suggested to happen or want to happen and what engineers or flight controllers or even flight directors would have liked to happen and, of course, in many cases astronauts. One example would be the Apollo 7 flight when Schirra canceled the broadcast of the TV. Can you share some details about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I remember that, but not in that much detail. I think that was more of a combination of Schirra becoming angry with the flight controllers. Because I think Chris Kraft may have ended up getting on the line with him, one of these private lines, and giving him hell, giving Schirra hell. Because Glynn [S.] Lunney, I believe, is the flight director that became directly involved, and I know Lunney was very upset at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to move into possibly asking some questions about specific missions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you’ve given us some understanding of how the organization was set up, and as we work through this we can gather a few more details."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.690986265934713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I remember that, but not in that much detail. I think that was more of a combination of Schirra becoming angry with the flight controllers. Because I think Chris Kraft may have ended up getting on the line with him, one of these private lines, and giving him hell, giving Schirra hell. Because Glynn [S.] Lunney, I believe, is the flight director that became directly involved, and I know Lunney was very upset at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to move into possibly asking some questions about specific missions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you’ve given us some understanding of how the organization was set up, and as we work through this we can gather a few more details."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because what we’ve also found is there’s not a lot of history about the Public Affairs Office and how it was formed, and the procedures and where they came from. A lot of people would like to say common sense will tell us that procedures evolved because of necessity, but it’s also nice to hear from an expert that was there how those happened.\\n\\n When Gemini IV operations moved to the MOCR, apparently the duties of the Public Affairs Office changed somewhat because it was a new time for the MSC."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.434429184371903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you’ve given us some understanding of how the organization was set up, and as we work through this we can gather a few more details."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because what we’ve also found is there’s not a lot of history about the Public Affairs Office and how it was formed, and the procedures and where they came from. A lot of people would like to say common sense will tell us that procedures evolved because of necessity, but it’s also nice to hear from an expert that was there how those happened.\\n\\n When Gemini IV operations moved to the MOCR, apparently the duties of the Public Affairs Office changed somewhat because it was a new time for the MSC."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us the differences of what had happened prior to that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.0382546493021145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because what we’ve also found is there’s not a lot of history about the Public Affairs Office and how it was formed, and the procedures and where they came from. A lot of people would like to say common sense will tell us that procedures evolved because of necessity, but it’s also nice to hear from an expert that was there how those happened.\\n\\n When Gemini IV operations moved to the MOCR, apparently the duties of the Public Affairs Office changed somewhat because it was a new time for the MSC."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us the differences of what had happened prior to that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, prior to that, all of the missions were launched and controlled at Kennedy. Then when you moved and you moved the control center to Houston, well, that changed the whole world. It changed it basically where I guess you had the pre-launch coming from Kennedy, and then once it was launched, the responsibility switched immediately to Houston, which, as a consequence, meant that normally you’d have someone say, “Houston is now controlling.” It was a nice lead-in line that I would use some as a commentator, and that would just kind of tend to tell you where you were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you prepare for that role? That was a totally new role for you to do as a commentator. Share with us how that happened and what was the purpose of that and what did you want to accomplish as you were a commentator for the Gemini Program."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.375838499224572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us the differences of what had happened prior to that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, prior to that, all of the missions were launched and controlled at Kennedy. Then when you moved and you moved the control center to Houston, well, that changed the whole world. It changed it basically where I guess you had the pre-launch coming from Kennedy, and then once it was launched, the responsibility switched immediately to Houston, which, as a consequence, meant that normally you’d have someone say, “Houston is now controlling.” It was a nice lead-in line that I would use some as a commentator, and that would just kind of tend to tell you where you were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you prepare for that role? That was a totally new role for you to do as a commentator. Share with us how that happened and what was the purpose of that and what did you want to accomplish as you were a commentator for the Gemini Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess I didn’t really become a commentator until later in Gemini. But on Gemini IV—I guess that may been Paul Haney who was the first commentator, I think, but I wouldn’t swear to it.\\n\\n What you tried to do was tell as much about the mission as you could. I had become fairly good as a launch commentator, and that was kind of an exciting time to me, once you became involved with particularly in Apollo where you had all those three stages and all that power and so on and you’re sitting in Houston and that’s all happening in Florida. But, yes, I think it was an important assignment and somebody should do it and do it well, and I tried to do it as best I could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you located when you were doing the commentary?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7509316658050795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, prior to that, all of the missions were launched and controlled at Kennedy. Then when you moved and you moved the control center to Houston, well, that changed the whole world. It changed it basically where I guess you had the pre-launch coming from Kennedy, and then once it was launched, the responsibility switched immediately to Houston, which, as a consequence, meant that normally you’d have someone say, “Houston is now controlling.” It was a nice lead-in line that I would use some as a commentator, and that would just kind of tend to tell you where you were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you prepare for that role? That was a totally new role for you to do as a commentator. Share with us how that happened and what was the purpose of that and what did you want to accomplish as you were a commentator for the Gemini Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess I didn’t really become a commentator until later in Gemini. But on Gemini IV—I guess that may been Paul Haney who was the first commentator, I think, but I wouldn’t swear to it.\\n\\n What you tried to do was tell as much about the mission as you could. I had become fairly good as a launch commentator, and that was kind of an exciting time to me, once you became involved with particularly in Apollo where you had all those three stages and all that power and so on and you’re sitting in Houston and that’s all happening in Florida. But, yes, I think it was an important assignment and somebody should do it and do it well, and I tried to do it as best I could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you located when you were doing the commentary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the control center in Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had your own console that you sat at?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.167701850894533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess I didn’t really become a commentator until later in Gemini. But on Gemini IV—I guess that may been Paul Haney who was the first commentator, I think, but I wouldn’t swear to it.\\n\\n What you tried to do was tell as much about the mission as you could. I had become fairly good as a launch commentator, and that was kind of an exciting time to me, once you became involved with particularly in Apollo where you had all those three stages and all that power and so on and you’re sitting in Houston and that’s all happening in Florida. But, yes, I think it was an important assignment and somebody should do it and do it well, and I tried to do it as best I could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you located when you were doing the commentary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the control center in Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had your own console that you sat at?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long was your shift that you were on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5196687232161468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the control center in Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had your own console that you sat at?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long was your shift that you were on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it varied. I, unfortunately, was also a commentator during the Apollo 13 explosion, and that was a terrible time. It was an awful night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s talk about Apollo 13, since you brought it up."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9107430257957185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long was your shift that you were on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it varied. I, unfortunately, was also a commentator during the Apollo 13 explosion, and that was a terrible time. It was an awful night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s talk about Apollo 13, since you brought it up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were doing your shift as a commentator."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.7169666985132324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were doing your shift as a commentator."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought I was getting ready to break shift and go home and be happy, and then all of a sudden it’s “Houston, we’ve got a problem,” came across, and that was [James A.] Lovell. And they sure had one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you there on this shift that now had just become extended?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0188518872369245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought I was getting ready to break shift and go home and be happy, and then all of a sudden it’s “Houston, we’ve got a problem,” came across, and that was [James A.] Lovell. And they sure had one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you there on this shift that now had just become extended?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall exactly how long, maybe ten, twelve hours, but I did finally go home and had a couple of belts of good ones and tried to sleep. Because then everything sort of switched pretty rapidly. That’s when they reactivated a pool assignment, because I guess there was a real belief that this crew may not come back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned to the reactivation of the pool assignment. Let’s step back just for a second. When the MOCR opened and the commentary was done by a Public Affairs Office specialist, where did you put the press during that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.354279874707694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought I was getting ready to break shift and go home and be happy, and then all of a sudden it’s “Houston, we’ve got a problem,” came across, and that was [James A.] Lovell. And they sure had one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you there on this shift that now had just become extended?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall exactly how long, maybe ten, twelve hours, but I did finally go home and had a couple of belts of good ones and tried to sleep. Because then everything sort of switched pretty rapidly. That’s when they reactivated a pool assignment, because I guess there was a real belief that this crew may not come back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned to the reactivation of the pool assignment. Let’s step back just for a second. When the MOCR opened and the commentary was done by a Public Affairs Office specialist, where did you put the press during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were mainly in the news center over in Building 2."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were listening to your commentary?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.726977638564104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall exactly how long, maybe ten, twelve hours, but I did finally go home and had a couple of belts of good ones and tried to sleep. Because then everything sort of switched pretty rapidly. That’s when they reactivated a pool assignment, because I guess there was a real belief that this crew may not come back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned to the reactivation of the pool assignment. Let’s step back just for a second. When the MOCR opened and the commentary was done by a Public Affairs Office specialist, where did you put the press during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were mainly in the news center over in Building 2."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were listening to your commentary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they would listen it there. Now, it turns out, oddly enough, and it was maybe very timely, the first time we had a pool located in the control center was Apollo 13, which turned out it gave you some opportunity for candor, and they could see that you weren’t lying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was quite a few missions that had occurred from the first time you had Gemini IV to Apollo 13."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.141086265071227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were mainly in the news center over in Building 2."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were listening to your commentary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they would listen it there. Now, it turns out, oddly enough, and it was maybe very timely, the first time we had a pool located in the control center was Apollo 13, which turned out it gave you some opportunity for candor, and they could see that you weren’t lying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was quite a few missions that had occurred from the first time you had Gemini IV to Apollo 13."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right. That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the pool begin? How did their place happen?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.11245217910028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right. That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the pool begin? How did their place happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was kind of a constant pressure for a pool on the part of the press, and we tried to make it very simple. We had one writer and one—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Broadcast?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—broadcast, and that was it. We said, “Okay, you’re the pool.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who selected those people?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.680502421222533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was kind of a constant pressure for a pool on the part of the press, and we tried to make it very simple. We had one writer and one—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Broadcast?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—broadcast, and that was it. We said, “Okay, you’re the pool.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who selected those people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We let them do it among themselves. You almost had to do it that way, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they take turns for each mission?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.311669356913925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—broadcast, and that was it. We said, “Okay, you’re the pool.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who selected those people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We let them do it among themselves. You almost had to do it that way, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they take turns for each mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I think once they decided that things had started to go down or not become as tense as you saw on 13, the pool kind of went away again. It became a much more dormant thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that it assisted Public Affairs officers to have that pool?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.012965952126583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We let them do it among themselves. You almost had to do it that way, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they take turns for each mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I think once they decided that things had started to go down or not become as tense as you saw on 13, the pool kind of went away again. It became a much more dormant thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that it assisted Public Affairs officers to have that pool?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I thought it did, because again, it kind of made you appear open and like you have candor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were they located in the Mission Control Center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.458851057918426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I think once they decided that things had started to go down or not become as tense as you saw on 13, the pool kind of went away again. It became a much more dormant thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that it assisted Public Affairs officers to have that pool?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I thought it did, because again, it kind of made you appear open and like you have candor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were they located in the Mission Control Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a little side booth up in—well, I guess they’re in a different area now, I think. But in the old MOCR, in the second and third floor there was a little booth where you put them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were just left alone to view?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.954278953242695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I thought it did, because again, it kind of made you appear open and like you have candor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were they located in the Mission Control Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a little side booth up in—well, I guess they’re in a different area now, I think. But in the old MOCR, in the second and third floor there was a little booth where you put them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were just left alone to view?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have the opportunity to hear all the loops?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.504754392491883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a little side booth up in—well, I guess they’re in a different area now, I think. But in the old MOCR, in the second and third floor there was a little booth where you put them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were just left alone to view?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have the opportunity to hear all the loops?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or were there selective loops that were in there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.116393769435425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have the opportunity to hear all the loops?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or were there selective loops that were in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they heard the flight director’s loop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They could see the viewing screens as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.795993077150472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or were there selective loops that were in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they heard the flight director’s loop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They could see the viewing screens as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then their job was to come back and meet with the other reporters and share that information?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.217770085722746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they heard the flight director’s loop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They could see the viewing screens as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then their job was to come back and meet with the other reporters and share that information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Either that or put it on as far as the—I think a fellow named Roy Neal became very active as the pool correspondent for the television. But that got a little tricky, too, from their own behalf because you had the NBC guy. You couldn’t necessarily have him with ABC or CBS necessarily, so they tended to sort of play that out as—I guess anonymously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you facilitate the news conferences?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.686411206358606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then their job was to come back and meet with the other reporters and share that information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Either that or put it on as far as the—I think a fellow named Roy Neal became very active as the pool correspondent for the television. But that got a little tricky, too, from their own behalf because you had the NBC guy. You couldn’t necessarily have him with ABC or CBS necessarily, so they tended to sort of play that out as—I guess anonymously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you facilitate the news conferences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did I facilitate them?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The news conferences or did the flight directors facilitate them? Who actually handled—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.207123562620674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Either that or put it on as far as the—I think a fellow named Roy Neal became very active as the pool correspondent for the television. But that got a little tricky, too, from their own behalf because you had the NBC guy. You couldn’t necessarily have him with ABC or CBS necessarily, so they tended to sort of play that out as—I guess anonymously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you facilitate the news conferences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did I facilitate them?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The news conferences or did the flight directors facilitate them? Who actually handled—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we ran them. Yes, we ran the news conferences. We would have one of our people as the moderator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a beginning and end time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.785692847356304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did I facilitate them?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The news conferences or did the flight directors facilitate them? Who actually handled—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we ran them. Yes, we ran the news conferences. We would have one of our people as the moderator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a beginning and end time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at least they would know that you were going to start and stop at the same time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.428547608173671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we ran them. Yes, we ran the news conferences. We would have one of our people as the moderator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a beginning and end time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at least they would know that you were going to start and stop at the same time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that helped everybody knowing that it just couldn’t keep going and going."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.142830675748524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at least they would know that you were going to start and stop at the same time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that helped everybody knowing that it just couldn’t keep going and going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find the press at that time informed before they were asking the questions because they had read your press kits? Did you find the materials that you had given them—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.936478528609471, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that helped everybody knowing that it just couldn’t keep going and going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find the press at that time informed before they were asking the questions because they had read your press kits? Did you find the materials that you had given them—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found that varied a great deal among whoever the member of the press was. Some were very bright and some were not so bright."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine. When you got ready to do the commentary, did you have to do a great deal of studying on your own before that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.818309476232745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find the press at that time informed before they were asking the questions because they had read your press kits? Did you find the materials that you had given them—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found that varied a great deal among whoever the member of the press was. Some were very bright and some were not so bright."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine. When you got ready to do the commentary, did you have to do a great deal of studying on your own before that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I’ll tell you what we mainly, or what I did, and I guess the other commentators did it as well, is I would go into simulations with the flight control team, which I found very useful, particularly in the launch abort simulations, which I suppose they still do, but, gosh, I don’t know. I’ve been away so long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there as an observer during the simulations or did you simply practice your commentary?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.798121640258605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found that varied a great deal among whoever the member of the press was. Some were very bright and some were not so bright."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine. When you got ready to do the commentary, did you have to do a great deal of studying on your own before that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I’ll tell you what we mainly, or what I did, and I guess the other commentators did it as well, is I would go into simulations with the flight control team, which I found very useful, particularly in the launch abort simulations, which I suppose they still do, but, gosh, I don’t know. I’ve been away so long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there as an observer during the simulations or did you simply practice your commentary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you practiced. Yes, I practiced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that in simulations they have debriefings, so were you also part of debriefings?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.886801822509561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I’ll tell you what we mainly, or what I did, and I guess the other commentators did it as well, is I would go into simulations with the flight control team, which I found very useful, particularly in the launch abort simulations, which I suppose they still do, but, gosh, I don’t know. I’ve been away so long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there as an observer during the simulations or did you simply practice your commentary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you practiced. Yes, I practiced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that in simulations they have debriefings, so were you also part of debriefings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was not part of the debriefing where they said, “Hey, you screwed up.” Because they didn’t really pay that much attention to you. They let you do your own thing quietly, and that’s what I tried to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find a lot of differences on how your job was affected when the off-site news center was moved on to Building 2? Was it better for your department to be on the Manned Spacecraft Center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.985335358343956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you practiced. Yes, I practiced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that in simulations they have debriefings, so were you also part of debriefings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was not part of the debriefing where they said, “Hey, you screwed up.” Because they didn’t really pay that much attention to you. They let you do your own thing quietly, and that’s what I tried to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find a lot of differences on how your job was affected when the off-site news center was moved on to Building 2? Was it better for your department to be on the Manned Spacecraft Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it was. I think it was once we finally moved on to the Center. It made it much easier, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During Gemini IV, of course [Edward H.] Ed White [II] did the first U.S. space walk, such a momentous time for everyone."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.205928175937728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was not part of the debriefing where they said, “Hey, you screwed up.” Because they didn’t really pay that much attention to you. They let you do your own thing quietly, and that’s what I tried to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find a lot of differences on how your job was affected when the off-site news center was moved on to Building 2? Was it better for your department to be on the Manned Spacecraft Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it was. I think it was once we finally moved on to the Center. It made it much easier, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During Gemini IV, of course [Edward H.] Ed White [II] did the first U.S. space walk, such a momentous time for everyone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of information were you able to give to the press, again, before and during and after that mission that explained? Because it was added somewhat at the last moment to do that. Were you put into the position of not having that material ready, or did you feel prepared?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.339920195486364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it was. I think it was once we finally moved on to the Center. It made it much easier, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During Gemini IV, of course [Edward H.] Ed White [II] did the first U.S. space walk, such a momentous time for everyone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of information were you able to give to the press, again, before and during and after that mission that explained? Because it was added somewhat at the last moment to do that. Were you put into the position of not having that material ready, or did you feel prepared?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I honestly don’t recall for sure if we were ready or not. I know it was kind of a last-minute deal. I think Dr. [Charles A.] Chuck Berry had something to do with it. I think you’ve probably interviewed him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we have."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.599911328318182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of information were you able to give to the press, again, before and during and after that mission that explained? Because it was added somewhat at the last moment to do that. Were you put into the position of not having that material ready, or did you feel prepared?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I honestly don’t recall for sure if we were ready or not. I know it was kind of a last-minute deal. I think Dr. [Charles A.] Chuck Berry had something to do with it. I think you’ve probably interviewed him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think he tended to be a fairly talkative guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the Apollo missions began, you were still, though, doing Gemini, because the Apollo unmanned missions were starting and the Gemini Program was still going. Did you find your staff stretched of trying to handle both those programs?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.777679253686868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I honestly don’t recall for sure if we were ready or not. I know it was kind of a last-minute deal. I think Dr. [Charles A.] Chuck Berry had something to do with it. I think you’ve probably interviewed him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think he tended to be a fairly talkative guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the Apollo missions began, you were still, though, doing Gemini, because the Apollo unmanned missions were starting and the Gemini Program was still going. Did you find your staff stretched of trying to handle both those programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. I don’t think we felt stretched that much. I’m trying to recall that. We had some unmanned Apollos. In fact, I became involved in one of the commentaries on an unmanned. It was Apollo—not 4, not the first one, which went very well, but this one everything kind of went to hell. It was Apollo—I want to say 6, 7.\\n\\n But in any case, they were going to have a high-altitude abort or something and it became a low-altitude, and everything kind of went wrong. I remember sitting next to Chris Kraft, who said something like—they moved the ship, and Kraft said something like, “Well, sometimes it doesn’t pay to do anything. You just might as well leave things as they are,” and which was kind of interesting. I think it was maybe one of his philosophies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the mid-sixties when this was all going on, some of the members of the astronaut corps died in various accidents."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.086310281874297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think he tended to be a fairly talkative guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the Apollo missions began, you were still, though, doing Gemini, because the Apollo unmanned missions were starting and the Gemini Program was still going. Did you find your staff stretched of trying to handle both those programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. I don’t think we felt stretched that much. I’m trying to recall that. We had some unmanned Apollos. In fact, I became involved in one of the commentaries on an unmanned. It was Apollo—not 4, not the first one, which went very well, but this one everything kind of went to hell. It was Apollo—I want to say 6, 7.\\n\\n But in any case, they were going to have a high-altitude abort or something and it became a low-altitude, and everything kind of went wrong. I remember sitting next to Chris Kraft, who said something like—they moved the ship, and Kraft said something like, “Well, sometimes it doesn’t pay to do anything. You just might as well leave things as they are,” and which was kind of interesting. I think it was maybe one of his philosophies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the mid-sixties when this was all going on, some of the members of the astronaut corps died in various accidents."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your office handle those situations, and how were you involved in handling those?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.87367809097144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. I don’t think we felt stretched that much. I’m trying to recall that. We had some unmanned Apollos. In fact, I became involved in one of the commentaries on an unmanned. It was Apollo—not 4, not the first one, which went very well, but this one everything kind of went to hell. It was Apollo—I want to say 6, 7.\\n\\n But in any case, they were going to have a high-altitude abort or something and it became a low-altitude, and everything kind of went wrong. I remember sitting next to Chris Kraft, who said something like—they moved the ship, and Kraft said something like, “Well, sometimes it doesn’t pay to do anything. You just might as well leave things as they are,” and which was kind of interesting. I think it was maybe one of his philosophies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the mid-sixties when this was all going on, some of the members of the astronaut corps died in various accidents."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your office handle those situations, and how were you involved in handling those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I recall very well the Elliott [M.] See [Jr.]-[Charles A.] Charlie Bassett [II] accident and also the Apollo 1 fire. As a matter of fact, the Apollo 1 fire, I ended up at [Virgil I. “Gus”] Grissom’s house, which was a terrible assignment, but somebody needed to be there to deal with the press, and I guess I was the guy who was there.\\n\\n Then in Elliott See’s case, I guess I was at the Elliott See house. That was a fellow named Charlie Basset was with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find the press to be receptive of the mood of NASA, or did you find them wanting to be extremely inquisitive and looking for information that you were having to somewhat hold in privacy at that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.748531212190489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your office handle those situations, and how were you involved in handling those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I recall very well the Elliott [M.] See [Jr.]-[Charles A.] Charlie Bassett [II] accident and also the Apollo 1 fire. As a matter of fact, the Apollo 1 fire, I ended up at [Virgil I. “Gus”] Grissom’s house, which was a terrible assignment, but somebody needed to be there to deal with the press, and I guess I was the guy who was there.\\n\\n Then in Elliott See’s case, I guess I was at the Elliott See house. That was a fellow named Charlie Basset was with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find the press to be receptive of the mood of NASA, or did you find them wanting to be extremely inquisitive and looking for information that you were having to somewhat hold in privacy at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied. It varied, again, depending on which member of the press you were dealing with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a difficult time for you professionally?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.72059023576721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I recall very well the Elliott [M.] See [Jr.]-[Charles A.] Charlie Bassett [II] accident and also the Apollo 1 fire. As a matter of fact, the Apollo 1 fire, I ended up at [Virgil I. “Gus”] Grissom’s house, which was a terrible assignment, but somebody needed to be there to deal with the press, and I guess I was the guy who was there.\\n\\n Then in Elliott See’s case, I guess I was at the Elliott See house. That was a fellow named Charlie Basset was with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find the press to be receptive of the mood of NASA, or did you find them wanting to be extremely inquisitive and looking for information that you were having to somewhat hold in privacy at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied. It varied, again, depending on which member of the press you were dealing with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a difficult time for you professionally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Yes. It’s not a lot of fun to be at somebody’s house whose husband was just killed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There certainly wasn’t a precedent for it at that time, either."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.356211373074678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied. It varied, again, depending on which member of the press you were dealing with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a difficult time for you professionally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Yes. It’s not a lot of fun to be at somebody’s house whose husband was just killed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There certainly wasn’t a precedent for it at that time, either."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. Now, I recall I was not involved in that one somehow when [Theodore C. ] Freeman was killed. I think a fellow named [James] Jim Shefter showed up at somebody’s house and told his wife, which became a very unsettling thing. I know some of the astronauts held it very much against him for a long time. But Shefter, I think he may have recently died, Jim Shefter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he did."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.062457081194086, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Yes. It’s not a lot of fun to be at somebody’s house whose husband was just killed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There certainly wasn’t a precedent for it at that time, either."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. Now, I recall I was not involved in that one somehow when [Theodore C. ] Freeman was killed. I think a fellow named [James] Jim Shefter showed up at somebody’s house and told his wife, which became a very unsettling thing. I know some of the astronauts held it very much against him for a long time. But Shefter, I think he may have recently died, Jim Shefter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you knew that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I knew that he had passed away. Because of that incident from him, did any of your policies or guidelines from your office change in how you handled these incidents?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.624952312437873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. Now, I recall I was not involved in that one somehow when [Theodore C. ] Freeman was killed. I think a fellow named [James] Jim Shefter showed up at somebody’s house and told his wife, which became a very unsettling thing. I know some of the astronauts held it very much against him for a long time. But Shefter, I think he may have recently died, Jim Shefter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you knew that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I knew that he had passed away. Because of that incident from him, did any of your policies or guidelines from your office change in how you handled these incidents?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think it changed. In the case of Shefter, it was more of probably a misstep on his part and it was probably not appropriate to have him show up at the house and say, “Well, he’s gone,” but I think he may have had some pressure from the\\n\\n Houston Chronicle\\n\\n , a fellow named Dan Cobb, city editor at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After those incidents, as well as the Apollo 1 fire, especially after the Apollo 1 fire, was there anything different that the Public Affairs changed in order to release information because of that incident, because of the accident?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.027724791597636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you knew that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I knew that he had passed away. Because of that incident from him, did any of your policies or guidelines from your office change in how you handled these incidents?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think it changed. In the case of Shefter, it was more of probably a misstep on his part and it was probably not appropriate to have him show up at the house and say, “Well, he’s gone,” but I think he may have had some pressure from the\\n\\n Houston Chronicle\\n\\n , a fellow named Dan Cobb, city editor at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After those incidents, as well as the Apollo 1 fire, especially after the Apollo 1 fire, was there anything different that the Public Affairs changed in order to release information because of that incident, because of the accident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think things became much more unwieldy in the post-Apollo 1 fire accident because they had a big protocol set up—I guess it was more with the Program Office—that you had to clear answers through them, and it became very unwieldy. That went on for a period of time, but over the long haul, I guess things worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that make your job more difficult?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.475249768441818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think it changed. In the case of Shefter, it was more of probably a misstep on his part and it was probably not appropriate to have him show up at the house and say, “Well, he’s gone,” but I think he may have had some pressure from the\\n\\n Houston Chronicle\\n\\n , a fellow named Dan Cobb, city editor at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After those incidents, as well as the Apollo 1 fire, especially after the Apollo 1 fire, was there anything different that the Public Affairs changed in order to release information because of that incident, because of the accident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think things became much more unwieldy in the post-Apollo 1 fire accident because they had a big protocol set up—I guess it was more with the Program Office—that you had to clear answers through them, and it became very unwieldy. That went on for a period of time, but over the long haul, I guess things worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that make your job more difficult?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it would make it a bit more difficult, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Several weeks before the Apollo 10 flight, there was a change in management when Brian Duff replaced Paul Haney. Did you find a great deal of changes occurred within your office with that change of management?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.86138863160202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think things became much more unwieldy in the post-Apollo 1 fire accident because they had a big protocol set up—I guess it was more with the Program Office—that you had to clear answers through them, and it became very unwieldy. That went on for a period of time, but over the long haul, I guess things worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that make your job more difficult?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it would make it a bit more difficult, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Several weeks before the Apollo 10 flight, there was a change in management when Brian Duff replaced Paul Haney. Did you find a great deal of changes occurred within your office with that change of management?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a fair amount. Duff is a very charming, very dapper, delightful guy. He’s different. His style is very different from Haney. So, yes, I would say there was certainly a change. I guess Duff has passed on, too, by the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he has."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.290431812891133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it would make it a bit more difficult, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Several weeks before the Apollo 10 flight, there was a change in management when Brian Duff replaced Paul Haney. Did you find a great deal of changes occurred within your office with that change of management?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a fair amount. Duff is a very charming, very dapper, delightful guy. He’s different. His style is very different from Haney. So, yes, I would say there was certainly a change. I guess Duff has passed on, too, by the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he has."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, yes, he was in an interesting guy, Brian Duff. But so was Haney."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your role change with the new management, or job duties increased during that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.296829398631028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, yes, he was in an interesting guy, Brian Duff. But so was Haney."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your role change with the new management, or job duties increased during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You say did it change?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I guess maybe it changed some, but I’m not sure I could pinpoint any particular way that it changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It almost sounds like your job continually evolved and grew."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.88536599847892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You say did it change?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I guess maybe it changed some, but I’m not sure I could pinpoint any particular way that it changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It almost sounds like your job continually evolved and grew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that one way that you would describe the first ten years or so?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.428184442754356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I guess maybe it changed some, but I’m not sure I could pinpoint any particular way that it changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It almost sounds like your job continually evolved and grew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that one way that you would describe the first ten years or so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It evolved and grew, yes. Well, I would say it became kind of different. I had a fair amount of independence as far as the job. I ran that office for sixteen years, and that was a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were always situations, I’m sure, that got your attention. One of the ones that we were looking at was that on Apollo 10, Eugene [A.] Cernan decided to utter a word that most people don’t normally hear come out of astronauts’ mouths."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.0313160475048395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that one way that you would describe the first ten years or so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It evolved and grew, yes. Well, I would say it became kind of different. I had a fair amount of independence as far as the job. I ran that office for sixteen years, and that was a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were always situations, I’m sure, that got your attention. One of the ones that we were looking at was that on Apollo 10, Eugene [A.] Cernan decided to utter a word that most people don’t normally hear come out of astronauts’ mouths."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I remember that. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering how Public Affairs addressed that situation."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.701462275005377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It evolved and grew, yes. Well, I would say it became kind of different. I had a fair amount of independence as far as the job. I ran that office for sixteen years, and that was a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were always situations, I’m sure, that got your attention. One of the ones that we were looking at was that on Apollo 10, Eugene [A.] Cernan decided to utter a word that most people don’t normally hear come out of astronauts’ mouths."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I remember that. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering how Public Affairs addressed that situation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you put it out in the transcript verbatim, and that’s what we did. I’m glad we did it, in retrospect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any after effects of that from the press? Did they want to know more information, or did the transcript serve all the purpose that needed to be served?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.446069194450419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I remember that. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering how Public Affairs addressed that situation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you put it out in the transcript verbatim, and that’s what we did. I’m glad we did it, in retrospect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any after effects of that from the press? Did they want to know more information, or did the transcript serve all the purpose that needed to be served?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the transcript pretty much handled it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any public reaction that you got in your office?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.273410216056021, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you put it out in the transcript verbatim, and that’s what we did. I’m glad we did it, in retrospect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any after effects of that from the press? Did they want to know more information, or did the transcript serve all the purpose that needed to be served?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the transcript pretty much handled it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any public reaction that you got in your office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seems to me there was some. There was some little old ladies that would call up and give you hell about something like that guy would just take advantage of me and that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, of course after Apollo 10, Apollo 11 was scheduled. As you mentioned a little earlier in our conversation, things changed as far as the Public Affairs Office because you just had so many more press personnel that you had to deal with. Could you elaborate on that and tell us how your job and just the whole Public Affairs arena began to change a little bit?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.081566906728913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the transcript pretty much handled it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any public reaction that you got in your office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seems to me there was some. There was some little old ladies that would call up and give you hell about something like that guy would just take advantage of me and that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, of course after Apollo 10, Apollo 11 was scheduled. As you mentioned a little earlier in our conversation, things changed as far as the Public Affairs Office because you just had so many more press personnel that you had to deal with. Could you elaborate on that and tell us how your job and just the whole Public Affairs arena began to change a little bit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, with the Apollo 11, there was just so many press there that, as I recall, we even had tents outside that had been set up to cover some of the press. We had begun to use that lobby area right across from where our offices were. I would say that there were also tents that were set up that were used also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they arrive earlier than they had ever arrived before for this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.977243094727053, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, with the Apollo 11, there was just so many press there that, as I recall, we even had tents outside that had been set up to cover some of the press. We had begun to use that lobby area right across from where our offices were. I would say that there were also tents that were set up that were used also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they arrive earlier than they had ever arrived before for this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The press?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not so sure I recall them arriving that much earlier. I just recall there was a lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot more?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.085825660807835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The press?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not so sure I recall them arriving that much earlier. I just recall there was a lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot more?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From all over the world?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.762028512008705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not so sure I recall them arriving that much earlier. I just recall there was a lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot more?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From all over the world?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, pretty much. Pretty much all over the world. We had the BBC and the—you name them. They were there from—of course we had ended up with the Japanese, I think, for some of the earlier missions. Of course, you also had the Velcro [Industries B.V.] and the Fisher pen [Fisher Space Pen Co.] people. They became very active as promoters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that work? Could you share with us some information about that, how they promoted it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.402253902231894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From all over the world?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, pretty much. Pretty much all over the world. We had the BBC and the—you name them. They were there from—of course we had ended up with the Japanese, I think, for some of the earlier missions. Of course, you also had the Velcro [Industries B.V.] and the Fisher pen [Fisher Space Pen Co.] people. They became very active as promoters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that work? Could you share with us some information about that, how they promoted it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They tended to put out little news releases and so on, and it worked pretty well. I know Paul [C.] Fisher, who I think is still alive and still runs the company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he there, or did he send a representative?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.79290605213814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They tended to put out little news releases and so on, and it worked pretty well. I know Paul [C.] Fisher, who I think is still alive and still runs the company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he there, or did he send a representative?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he would show up himself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, he would show up himself. He’s the guy who once ran for president, I think, for the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like an interesting gentleman."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.5476733912646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he would show up himself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, he would show up himself. He’s the guy who once ran for president, I think, for the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like an interesting gentleman."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was and probably still is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that another role that you served, working with these promoters of products that were being used on the missions?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.0529704347384445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, he would show up himself. He’s the guy who once ran for president, I think, for the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like an interesting gentleman."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was and probably still is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that another role that you served, working with these promoters of products that were being used on the missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, I became very involved with the General Foods’[Corporation] Tang [orange drink mix] people, which was kind of interesting because they did very well, as you know, as far as promoting Tang. I think people tended to think that Tang was just a byproduct of the space program. But I dealt mainly with their ad agency. I’m trying to recall who that was. [Young & Rubicam, Inc.]. I’ll think of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was something a little bit different."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.614411594153827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was and probably still is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that another role that you served, working with these promoters of products that were being used on the missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, I became very involved with the General Foods’[Corporation] Tang [orange drink mix] people, which was kind of interesting because they did very well, as you know, as far as promoting Tang. I think people tended to think that Tang was just a byproduct of the space program. But I dealt mainly with their ad agency. I’m trying to recall who that was. [Young & Rubicam, Inc.]. I’ll think of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was something a little bit different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Along with everything else that you had to do."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.238235104615363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, I became very involved with the General Foods’[Corporation] Tang [orange drink mix] people, which was kind of interesting because they did very well, as you know, as far as promoting Tang. I think people tended to think that Tang was just a byproduct of the space program. But I dealt mainly with their ad agency. I’m trying to recall who that was. [Young & Rubicam, Inc.]. I’ll think of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was something a little bit different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Along with everything else that you had to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and it was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they want to come on site to do their promotions or how did you work with those companies?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5980390051281814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Along with everything else that you had to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and it was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they want to come on site to do their promotions or how did you work with those companies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied. In the case of Paul Fisher kind of people, he would show up on site, and he was kind of an operator. In the case of General Foods-Tang, I’m again trying to remember the name of the ad agency [Young & Rubicam] because that’s who we dealt with mainly, and they would send in their storyboards, and we would review them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That really was something different from your everyday activity, then, wasn’t it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9978211168090905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and it was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they want to come on site to do their promotions or how did you work with those companies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied. In the case of Paul Fisher kind of people, he would show up on site, and he was kind of an operator. In the case of General Foods-Tang, I’m again trying to remember the name of the ad agency [Young & Rubicam] because that’s who we dealt with mainly, and they would send in their storyboards, and we would review them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That really was something different from your everyday activity, then, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Sure. Yes, it was. It was different. It was kind of fun, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with other departments, because Tang, being a commercial product, but yet it was going toward the food and nutrition area of the program, not necessarily Public Affairs, did you have to coordinate with these other departments as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.442023463121211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied. In the case of Paul Fisher kind of people, he would show up on site, and he was kind of an operator. In the case of General Foods-Tang, I’m again trying to remember the name of the ad agency [Young & Rubicam] because that’s who we dealt with mainly, and they would send in their storyboards, and we would review them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That really was something different from your everyday activity, then, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Sure. Yes, it was. It was different. It was kind of fun, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with other departments, because Tang, being a commercial product, but yet it was going toward the food and nutrition area of the program, not necessarily Public Affairs, did you have to coordinate with these other departments as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We would normally send that out to the cognizant technical person to look over and review for technical accuracy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then it all came back to you to ship back to them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.935581625690235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Sure. Yes, it was. It was different. It was kind of fun, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with other departments, because Tang, being a commercial product, but yet it was going toward the food and nutrition area of the program, not necessarily Public Affairs, did you have to coordinate with these other departments as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We would normally send that out to the cognizant technical person to look over and review for technical accuracy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then it all came back to you to ship back to them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Goodness. Like air traffic controlling out of our office, wasn’t it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.48397958410026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We would normally send that out to the cognizant technical person to look over and review for technical accuracy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then it all came back to you to ship back to them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Goodness. Like air traffic controlling out of our office, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, kind off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody filtered in and filtered out."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.093310649000289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Goodness. Like air traffic controlling out of our office, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, kind off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody filtered in and filtered out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you on Apollo 11? Tell us what was your role and what job you were doing at that time."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4370118322225425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, kind off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody filtered in and filtered out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you on Apollo 11? Tell us what was your role and what job you were doing at that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Apollo 11, I was several places. One, I did a little bit of commentary before I went into quarantine. I was at KSC [NASA Kennedy Space Center] for the pre-launch. I did not get that close to the launch, and then I caught an airplane back to Houston, I guess to get ready to be locked up, right after I had done a little bit of commentary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this a commercial flight that you took back, or did you have an airplane that brought you back?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8189020358028247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you on Apollo 11? Tell us what was your role and what job you were doing at that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Apollo 11, I was several places. One, I did a little bit of commentary before I went into quarantine. I was at KSC [NASA Kennedy Space Center] for the pre-launch. I did not get that close to the launch, and then I caught an airplane back to Houston, I guess to get ready to be locked up, right after I had done a little bit of commentary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this a commercial flight that you took back, or did you have an airplane that brought you back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to remember. I think it was commercial, but I wouldn’t swear to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking about that coordination again."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.243224484225361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Apollo 11, I was several places. One, I did a little bit of commentary before I went into quarantine. I was at KSC [NASA Kennedy Space Center] for the pre-launch. I did not get that close to the launch, and then I caught an airplane back to Houston, I guess to get ready to be locked up, right after I had done a little bit of commentary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this a commercial flight that you took back, or did you have an airplane that brought you back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to remember. I think it was commercial, but I wouldn’t swear to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking about that coordination again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Yes, I think it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you in quarantine waiting on the crew?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.714693871361512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to remember. I think it was commercial, but I wouldn’t swear to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking about that coordination again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Yes, I think it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you in quarantine waiting on the crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were there before they were?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.238548745957235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Yes, I think it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you in quarantine waiting on the crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were there before they were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were there before they showed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you checking it all out for them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.70949860661915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were there before they were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were there before they showed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you checking it all out for them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not exactly, but that was in, what, Building 37, I guess, was where they were located."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you selected to be the one to work with them in quarantine?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.232776229576833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were there before they showed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you checking it all out for them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not exactly, but that was in, what, Building 37, I guess, was where they were located."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you selected to be the one to work with them in quarantine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m not sure I know. But it turned out I enjoyed it after it was over, well after it was over. I didn’t look forward to it at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your family feel about you being secluded for that amount of time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.814195810640926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not exactly, but that was in, what, Building 37, I guess, was where they were located."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you selected to be the one to work with them in quarantine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m not sure I know. But it turned out I enjoyed it after it was over, well after it was over. I didn’t look forward to it at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your family feel about you being secluded for that amount of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. It was a couple of weeks, I guess. Well, my wife would come out periodically and talk to me through the glass. That’s the way families did, I suppose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any personal concerns about possible health issues?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.349106456267695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m not sure I know. But it turned out I enjoyed it after it was over, well after it was over. I didn’t look forward to it at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your family feel about you being secluded for that amount of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. It was a couple of weeks, I guess. Well, my wife would come out periodically and talk to me through the glass. That’s the way families did, I suppose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any personal concerns about possible health issues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t really. As a matter of fact, I even tasted a little bit of Moon dust, just to say I’d done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to watch the EVA [Extravehicular Activity] and see everything, be a part of the actual activities before you went into quarantine, or were you into quarantine before Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.943451618075216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. It was a couple of weeks, I guess. Well, my wife would come out periodically and talk to me through the glass. That’s the way families did, I suppose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any personal concerns about possible health issues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t really. As a matter of fact, I even tasted a little bit of Moon dust, just to say I’d done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to watch the EVA [Extravehicular Activity] and see everything, be a part of the actual activities before you went into quarantine, or were you into quarantine before Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were in quarantine. Once they had landed, that’s when they said, “You get over there.” They figured, okay, time’s up, but you did see him on the Moon in quarantine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us some of the conversations that you had with the astronauts? You mentioned you had gone on geology field trips with them, so you weren’t strangers with them."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.603835131194685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t really. As a matter of fact, I even tasted a little bit of Moon dust, just to say I’d done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to watch the EVA [Extravehicular Activity] and see everything, be a part of the actual activities before you went into quarantine, or were you into quarantine before Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were in quarantine. Once they had landed, that’s when they said, “You get over there.” They figured, okay, time’s up, but you did see him on the Moon in quarantine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us some of the conversations that you had with the astronauts? You mentioned you had gone on geology field trips with them, so you weren’t strangers with them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a chance to spend time with them. Could you share with us some of their thoughts or maybe some of the questions that you might have asked them in order to prepare some of the releases and the reports that you issued from there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.226483479105205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were in quarantine. Once they had landed, that’s when they said, “You get over there.” They figured, okay, time’s up, but you did see him on the Moon in quarantine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us some of the conversations that you had with the astronauts? You mentioned you had gone on geology field trips with them, so you weren’t strangers with them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a chance to spend time with them. Could you share with us some of their thoughts or maybe some of the questions that you might have asked them in order to prepare some of the releases and the reports that you issued from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m trying to recall. Yes, they were a very diverse and very different group of people themselves. Pete Conrad, who I guess now is dead, he had, what, a motorcycle accident?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he did."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.696092754561339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a chance to spend time with them. Could you share with us some of their thoughts or maybe some of the questions that you might have asked them in order to prepare some of the releases and the reports that you issued from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m trying to recall. Yes, they were a very diverse and very different group of people themselves. Pete Conrad, who I guess now is dead, he had, what, a motorcycle accident?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, Armstrong was very quiet and very unassuming. In fact, he was an interesting guy to me, particularly in quarantine. It was kind of like he’d had had the world lifted off his shoulders, is the way you kind of sensed him as feeling. Then there was [Edwin E. “Buzz”] Aldrin, who was quite different at the time. In fact, I think Buzz became—I guess he’s officially named Buzz now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I hear."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9956586161792655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m trying to recall. Yes, they were a very diverse and very different group of people themselves. Pete Conrad, who I guess now is dead, he had, what, a motorcycle accident?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, Armstrong was very quiet and very unassuming. In fact, he was an interesting guy to me, particularly in quarantine. It was kind of like he’d had had the world lifted off his shoulders, is the way you kind of sensed him as feeling. Then there was [Edwin E. “Buzz”] Aldrin, who was quite different at the time. In fact, I think Buzz became—I guess he’s officially named Buzz now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I hear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was quite different. Buzz, I think never quite got over the fact that he was not the first man to set foot on the Moon but the second. [Michael] Collins was very different, because Collins, he never set foot on the Moon, and he was a very bright, intelligent guy who I was always impressed by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a defined purpose or a defined mission as being part of that quarantine team?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3285095735325174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, Armstrong was very quiet and very unassuming. In fact, he was an interesting guy to me, particularly in quarantine. It was kind of like he’d had had the world lifted off his shoulders, is the way you kind of sensed him as feeling. Then there was [Edwin E. “Buzz”] Aldrin, who was quite different at the time. In fact, I think Buzz became—I guess he’s officially named Buzz now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I hear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was quite different. Buzz, I think never quite got over the fact that he was not the first man to set foot on the Moon but the second. [Michael] Collins was very different, because Collins, he never set foot on the Moon, and he was a very bright, intelligent guy who I was always impressed by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a defined purpose or a defined mission as being part of that quarantine team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was supposed to brief the press, which I tried to do, and I caught hell a time or two because they didn’t feel that you were telling them everything you should be telling them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in that position of trying to choose what to tell, or did you just didn’t have a lot?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.698343970591686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was quite different. Buzz, I think never quite got over the fact that he was not the first man to set foot on the Moon but the second. [Michael] Collins was very different, because Collins, he never set foot on the Moon, and he was a very bright, intelligent guy who I was always impressed by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a defined purpose or a defined mission as being part of that quarantine team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was supposed to brief the press, which I tried to do, and I caught hell a time or two because they didn’t feel that you were telling them everything you should be telling them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in that position of trying to choose what to tell, or did you just didn’t have a lot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I had a fair amount. I thought I was putting out more than maybe some of the press thought I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was everything from you issued via print reports, or did you give broadcast or how did you handle that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1092710784352064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was supposed to brief the press, which I tried to do, and I caught hell a time or two because they didn’t feel that you were telling them everything you should be telling them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in that position of trying to choose what to tell, or did you just didn’t have a lot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I had a fair amount. I thought I was putting out more than maybe some of the press thought I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was everything from you issued via print reports, or did you give broadcast or how did you handle that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was briefings. I would come in for, I guess, a briefing to the press. It was kind of like a little news conference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you came out of the quarantine area to do that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.565856753816896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I had a fair amount. I thought I was putting out more than maybe some of the press thought I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was everything from you issued via print reports, or did you give broadcast or how did you handle that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was briefings. I would come in for, I guess, a briefing to the press. It was kind of like a little news conference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you came out of the quarantine area to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Remember, that was all behind the glass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you just came so they could see you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.073174170907662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was briefings. I would come in for, I guess, a briefing to the press. It was kind of like a little news conference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you came out of the quarantine area to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Remember, that was all behind the glass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you just came so they could see you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I came out, and they’d see you through the glass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s pretty interesting. Was that a set time that you did that every day or just when you felt it was necessary?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.028610087540324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I came out, and they’d see you through the glass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s pretty interesting. Was that a set time that you did that every day or just when you felt it was necessary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to recall. I’m not sure it was a set time, but we did it several times. Then there was—I guess I had a nice private room until a young lady named Heather Owens, I believe, got bounced into quarantine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that happen?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4762334306003595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to recall. I’m not sure it was a set time, but we did it several times. Then there was—I guess I had a nice private room until a young lady named Heather Owens, I believe, got bounced into quarantine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she became contaminated some way. They were all dealing with these Moon rocks and that kind of thing, and so I lost my private room there in the last day or two, I suppose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get the couch? [Laughs]"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.973592700667066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she became contaminated some way. They were all dealing with these Moon rocks and that kind of thing, and so I lost my private room there in the last day or two, I suppose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get the couch? [Laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction of seeing Moon dust or knowing that you were with objects that came from the Moon?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.526214111852295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she became contaminated some way. They were all dealing with these Moon rocks and that kind of thing, and so I lost my private room there in the last day or two, I suppose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get the couch? [Laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction of seeing Moon dust or knowing that you were with objects that came from the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I found it interesting, the fact that—I just took a little thing and just said I might as well taste it and go out first class, if that’s what’s going to happen. Turns out it didn’t, obviously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I should ask you what Moon dust tastes like."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1402379020581055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction of seeing Moon dust or knowing that you were with objects that came from the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I found it interesting, the fact that—I just took a little thing and just said I might as well taste it and go out first class, if that’s what’s going to happen. Turns out it didn’t, obviously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I should ask you what Moon dust tastes like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you can. I’m not sure it—it was kind of tasteless, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tastes like Moon dust, huh? [Laughs]"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.822486557842339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I found it interesting, the fact that—I just took a little thing and just said I might as well taste it and go out first class, if that’s what’s going to happen. Turns out it didn’t, obviously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I should ask you what Moon dust tastes like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you can. I’m not sure it—it was kind of tasteless, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tastes like Moon dust, huh? [Laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been a very special time in your life to know that you were the first to see those or be that long with those materials."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.580540619824821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you can. I’m not sure it—it was kind of tasteless, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tastes like Moon dust, huh? [Laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been a very special time in your life to know that you were the first to see those or be that long with those materials."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, it was interesting. I guess that was mainly off the space suits that had come in. I’m trying to recall. I guess they arrived maybe before the crew, because the crew had shown up in this trailer. I don’t know if you recall or not, it was sort of a trailer that they moved in. They were playing this thing for all it was worth, as far as possible contamination from lunar soil or Moon dust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a difference from where they had been and now they were in this secluded area."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.422822910916468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been a very special time in your life to know that you were the first to see those or be that long with those materials."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, it was interesting. I guess that was mainly off the space suits that had come in. I’m trying to recall. I guess they arrived maybe before the crew, because the crew had shown up in this trailer. I don’t know if you recall or not, it was sort of a trailer that they moved in. They were playing this thing for all it was worth, as far as possible contamination from lunar soil or Moon dust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a difference from where they had been and now they were in this secluded area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were involved in the quarantine?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.914247678796075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, it was interesting. I guess that was mainly off the space suits that had come in. I’m trying to recall. I guess they arrived maybe before the crew, because the crew had shown up in this trailer. I don’t know if you recall or not, it was sort of a trailer that they moved in. They were playing this thing for all it was worth, as far as possible contamination from lunar soil or Moon dust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a difference from where they had been and now they were in this secluded area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were involved in the quarantine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. I’m trying to recall. Not that many. There was two doctors and myself, several technicians, and a fellow named—his last name was Graham, I believe, and he was kind of like the head technician. I’m trying to recall the doctors’ names. One later went to—I believe he’s in [Temple], Texas, and the other went to the Eisenhower Clinic [Eisenhower Army Medical Center], and he’s the one that—well, gosh. Names kind of escape you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Did you meet together as a team prior to going into quarantine to visit with these other people, or were you all cast in there around the same time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.349164087551194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were involved in the quarantine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. I’m trying to recall. Not that many. There was two doctors and myself, several technicians, and a fellow named—his last name was Graham, I believe, and he was kind of like the head technician. I’m trying to recall the doctors’ names. One later went to—I believe he’s in [Temple], Texas, and the other went to the Eisenhower Clinic [Eisenhower Army Medical Center], and he’s the one that—well, gosh. Names kind of escape you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Did you meet together as a team prior to going into quarantine to visit with these other people, or were you all cast in there around the same time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably showed up about the same time. I don’t recall that we had any big formal meeting. We might have done something one day in advance or several weeks in advance, but I don’t recall any big particular—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have very much association with the other people that were in quarantine?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.7212934306124374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. I’m trying to recall. Not that many. There was two doctors and myself, several technicians, and a fellow named—his last name was Graham, I believe, and he was kind of like the head technician. I’m trying to recall the doctors’ names. One later went to—I believe he’s in [Temple], Texas, and the other went to the Eisenhower Clinic [Eisenhower Army Medical Center], and he’s the one that—well, gosh. Names kind of escape you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Did you meet together as a team prior to going into quarantine to visit with these other people, or were you all cast in there around the same time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably showed up about the same time. I don’t recall that we had any big formal meeting. We might have done something one day in advance or several weeks in advance, but I don’t recall any big particular—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have very much association with the other people that were in quarantine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, pretty much. I’m trying to recall the doctor’s name, the one that was really a very pleasant guy and I got along well with. The other doctor I think came back with the crew. He was on the ship. [Dr. William R.] Carpentier was his name. You know him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve heard that name, yes."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0236593673471526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably showed up about the same time. I don’t recall that we had any big formal meeting. We might have done something one day in advance or several weeks in advance, but I don’t recall any big particular—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have very much association with the other people that were in quarantine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, pretty much. I’m trying to recall the doctor’s name, the one that was really a very pleasant guy and I got along well with. The other doctor I think came back with the crew. He was on the ship. [Dr. William R.] Carpentier was his name. You know him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve heard that name, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Carpentier, and if I can remember the other fellow, because that’s the one that I really had gotten fairly close with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were released from quarantine, did you have a chance to take some time off and be with your family and be somewhat on a normal routine, or were you right back into your normal day-to-day activities at the office?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3596215192746137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, pretty much. I’m trying to recall the doctor’s name, the one that was really a very pleasant guy and I got along well with. The other doctor I think came back with the crew. He was on the ship. [Dr. William R.] Carpentier was his name. You know him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve heard that name, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Carpentier, and if I can remember the other fellow, because that’s the one that I really had gotten fairly close with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were released from quarantine, did you have a chance to take some time off and be with your family and be somewhat on a normal routine, or were you right back into your normal day-to-day activities at the office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I probably took a little time off, but not much. I don’t recall any extended period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an opportunity to take much time off at all since the time that you had started with NASA to this time, with all of the continuing missions and changes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.732912799194015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Carpentier, and if I can remember the other fellow, because that’s the one that I really had gotten fairly close with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were released from quarantine, did you have a chance to take some time off and be with your family and be somewhat on a normal routine, or were you right back into your normal day-to-day activities at the office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I probably took a little time off, but not much. I don’t recall any extended period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an opportunity to take much time off at all since the time that you had started with NASA to this time, with all of the continuing missions and changes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some, but not a lot. I guess I was not that big on vacations at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were your days long as well? Did you have long hours?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.14768088799335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I probably took a little time off, but not much. I don’t recall any extended period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an opportunity to take much time off at all since the time that you had started with NASA to this time, with all of the continuing missions and changes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some, but not a lot. I guess I was not that big on vacations at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were your days long as well? Did you have long hours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes. It varied, and it varied pretty widely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo 11, you mentioned so many people had traveled throughout the world to be at Houston to see this happen or be a part of it happening."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.608534319992611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some, but not a lot. I guess I was not that big on vacations at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were your days long as well? Did you have long hours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes. It varied, and it varied pretty widely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo 11, you mentioned so many people had traveled throughout the world to be at Houston to see this happen or be a part of it happening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like for Apollo 12? Did you have that same type of interest?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8983714666584564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes. It varied, and it varied pretty widely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo 11, you mentioned so many people had traveled throughout the world to be at Houston to see this happen or be a part of it happening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like for Apollo 12? Did you have that same type of interest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably lesser so. Not as many. Again, that’s predictable, I think, because you’d already had men on the Moon. In fact, Apollo 12 was kind of—I don’t know if you recall or not, that’s where they lost the picture from the surface of the Moon, and that kind of did not help, I guess, as far as the appeal or interest.\\n\\n Apollo 11, I do recall some things that when I was in quarantine, they had a—I guess it was Armstrong’s wife at the time, they had a big sort of—well, he had a birthday in quarantine, and they had a big birthday party for him. I remember sort of—well, that’s one thing I didn’t talk to the press about, and I told them I wouldn’t, and I kept my word on that. I guess Neil came—well, he cut the cake, and did a lot of things. But, in fact, I guess he was born—his birthday, I think, must have been in August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it’s in August, yes."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2204127407316183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like for Apollo 12? Did you have that same type of interest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably lesser so. Not as many. Again, that’s predictable, I think, because you’d already had men on the Moon. In fact, Apollo 12 was kind of—I don’t know if you recall or not, that’s where they lost the picture from the surface of the Moon, and that kind of did not help, I guess, as far as the appeal or interest.\\n\\n Apollo 11, I do recall some things that when I was in quarantine, they had a—I guess it was Armstrong’s wife at the time, they had a big sort of—well, he had a birthday in quarantine, and they had a big birthday party for him. I remember sort of—well, that’s one thing I didn’t talk to the press about, and I told them I wouldn’t, and I kept my word on that. I guess Neil came—well, he cut the cake, and did a lot of things. But, in fact, I guess he was born—his birthday, I think, must have been in August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it’s in August, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Now, you’ve talked to him also?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just recently. He was able to find time for us in his schedule. He came down for his annual appointment with the medical staff around his birthday."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5782363785906868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably lesser so. Not as many. Again, that’s predictable, I think, because you’d already had men on the Moon. In fact, Apollo 12 was kind of—I don’t know if you recall or not, that’s where they lost the picture from the surface of the Moon, and that kind of did not help, I guess, as far as the appeal or interest.\\n\\n Apollo 11, I do recall some things that when I was in quarantine, they had a—I guess it was Armstrong’s wife at the time, they had a big sort of—well, he had a birthday in quarantine, and they had a big birthday party for him. I remember sort of—well, that’s one thing I didn’t talk to the press about, and I told them I wouldn’t, and I kept my word on that. I guess Neil came—well, he cut the cake, and did a lot of things. But, in fact, I guess he was born—his birthday, I think, must have been in August."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it’s in August, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Now, you’ve talked to him also?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just recently. He was able to find time for us in his schedule. He came down for his annual appointment with the medical staff around his birthday."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. Well, good for him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that’s why I knew when his birthday was."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9758181984340966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Now, you’ve talked to him also?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just recently. He was able to find time for us in his schedule. He came down for his annual appointment with the medical staff around his birthday."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. Well, good for him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that’s why I knew when his birthday was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that makes sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He allowed us some time during that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.417575776037885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. Well, good for him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that’s why I knew when his birthday was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that makes sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He allowed us some time during that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, good. He was very a interesting guy, I felt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He still is."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.9084175289309835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that makes sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He allowed us some time during that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, good. He was very a interesting guy, I felt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He still is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "His legacy lives on, as so many of the rest of them, especially with the publicity and the movie from\\n\\n Apollo 13\\n\\n , so many people have their own interpretation of what happened during that mission, and you’d told us earlier that you were working on the console when the words came in from Lovell."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4537972543677595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, good. He was very a interesting guy, I felt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He still is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "His legacy lives on, as so many of the rest of them, especially with the publicity and the movie from\\n\\n Apollo 13\\n\\n , so many people have their own interpretation of what happened during that mission, and you’d told us earlier that you were working on the console when the words came in from Lovell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe the environment, the atmosphere that was in the MOCR at that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.059774727075288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "His legacy lives on, as so many of the rest of them, especially with the publicity and the movie from\\n\\n Apollo 13\\n\\n , so many people have their own interpretation of what happened during that mission, and you’d told us earlier that you were working on the console when the words came in from Lovell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe the environment, the atmosphere that was in the MOCR at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was totally confused. That went just beyond my comprehension of what was going on. I kept thinking, “Well, this thing, they’ll say it’s a glitch and it will go away.” Well, it didn’t, sad to say, but it did turn out to be a great mission in terms of the flight control team. That’s when they had become the real heroes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also, we talked about, too, of all good timing, I guess, that the members of the press got to see firsthand how that whole operation worked."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.7330830300836535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you describe the environment, the atmosphere that was in the MOCR at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was totally confused. That went just beyond my comprehension of what was going on. I kept thinking, “Well, this thing, they’ll say it’s a glitch and it will go away.” Well, it didn’t, sad to say, but it did turn out to be a great mission in terms of the flight control team. That’s when they had become the real heroes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also, we talked about, too, of all good timing, I guess, that the members of the press got to see firsthand how that whole operation worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They did. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you notice anything, maybe a different attitude from the press because they actually got to see that firsthand?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.4812033667596145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was totally confused. That went just beyond my comprehension of what was going on. I kept thinking, “Well, this thing, they’ll say it’s a glitch and it will go away.” Well, it didn’t, sad to say, but it did turn out to be a great mission in terms of the flight control team. That’s when they had become the real heroes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also, we talked about, too, of all good timing, I guess, that the members of the press got to see firsthand how that whole operation worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They did. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you notice anything, maybe a different attitude from the press because they actually got to see that firsthand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think there was an appreciation that, “Gosh, they’re telling us the truth,” and that was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What changed with Apollo 13 as far as debriefings and news conferences? Were you having to have more because of that crisis situation than you had had in the previous missions?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.201337074177349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They did. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you notice anything, maybe a different attitude from the press because they actually got to see that firsthand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think there was an appreciation that, “Gosh, they’re telling us the truth,” and that was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What changed with Apollo 13 as far as debriefings and news conferences? Were you having to have more because of that crisis situation than you had had in the previous missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think you had more, that I recall. But I had done some commentary on that mission, and I was not that involved in the news center. I guess I was on the shift with Kranz, who overnight became kind of like the lead flight director, which was interesting. He’s a very interesting guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you somewhat with him during this whole time so that you could report or with be him during the news conferences? Was that part of your role?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.890374526863721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think there was an appreciation that, “Gosh, they’re telling us the truth,” and that was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What changed with Apollo 13 as far as debriefings and news conferences? Were you having to have more because of that crisis situation than you had had in the previous missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think you had more, that I recall. But I had done some commentary on that mission, and I was not that involved in the news center. I guess I was on the shift with Kranz, who overnight became kind of like the lead flight director, which was interesting. He’s a very interesting guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you somewhat with him during this whole time so that you could report or with be him during the news conferences? Was that part of your role?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall if I was with him in the news conferences or not. I may have turned that over to someone like [John E.] Jack Riley, who was my deputy at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a twenty-four-hour news coverage going on during Apollo 13?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.655971696515246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think you had more, that I recall. But I had done some commentary on that mission, and I was not that involved in the news center. I guess I was on the shift with Kranz, who overnight became kind of like the lead flight director, which was interesting. He’s a very interesting guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you somewhat with him during this whole time so that you could report or with be him during the news conferences? Was that part of your role?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall if I was with him in the news conferences or not. I may have turned that over to someone like [John E.] Jack Riley, who was my deputy at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a twenty-four-hour news coverage going on during Apollo 13?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did that start for the Manned Spacecraft Center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.506635218350272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall if I was with him in the news conferences or not. I may have turned that over to someone like [John E.] Jack Riley, who was my deputy at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a twenty-four-hour news coverage going on during Apollo 13?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did that start for the Manned Spacecraft Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think we always had that. Yes, we also had that for missions. Even those where you had the overnight sleep shifts, we always had—in fact, that was one of my earlier assignments, I handled the overnight shift, and that was terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you busy during that time period?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.45181690927808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did that start for the Manned Spacecraft Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think we always had that. Yes, we also had that for missions. Even those where you had the overnight sleep shifts, we always had—in fact, that was one of my earlier assignments, I handled the overnight shift, and that was terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you busy during that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were on hand in case—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.502018788086755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think we always had that. Yes, we also had that for missions. Even those where you had the overnight sleep shifts, we always had—in fact, that was one of my earlier assignments, I handled the overnight shift, and that was terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you busy during that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were on hand in case—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In case you had a—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work day and nights then when you were on the overnight shift?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.446687542318616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were on hand in case—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In case you had a—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work day and nights then when you were on the overnight shift?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just mainly nights. You did twelve hours and twelve hours, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in Building 2, is that where you were located?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.496319491465128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In case you had a—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work day and nights then when you were on the overnight shift?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just mainly nights. You did twelve hours and twelve hours, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in Building 2, is that where you were located?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think when that occurred, we were still over in the building across the street, Building Number 6."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo 14 was the final manned mission that Brian Duff was the manager during that time, Public Affairs manager, so you once again had another change of management. Mr. [John W. “Jack”] King stepped in."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.55146610162792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just mainly nights. You did twelve hours and twelve hours, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in Building 2, is that where you were located?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think when that occurred, we were still over in the building across the street, Building Number 6."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo 14 was the final manned mission that Brian Duff was the manager during that time, Public Affairs manager, so you once again had another change of management. Mr. [John W. “Jack”] King stepped in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Jack King, that’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you again have changes in your organization, or did the functions and the roles and responsibilities continue?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.390517890697689, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think when that occurred, we were still over in the building across the street, Building Number 6."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo 14 was the final manned mission that Brian Duff was the manager during that time, Public Affairs manager, so you once again had another change of management. Mr. [John W. “Jack”] King stepped in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Jack King, that’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you again have changes in your organization, or did the functions and the roles and responsibilities continue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think we stayed pretty much the same. Pretty much the same, yes. King had come to us from Florida, the Kennedy Space Center, and Duff, I guess, well, he went on to HEW [Health, Education, and Welfare], I believe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so. Well, on 15 from what I’ve learned is that you weren’t a commentator, you were starting to manage the Apollo News Center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.322797656330765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Jack King, that’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you again have changes in your organization, or did the functions and the roles and responsibilities continue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think we stayed pretty much the same. Pretty much the same, yes. King had come to us from Florida, the Kennedy Space Center, and Duff, I guess, well, he went on to HEW [Health, Education, and Welfare], I believe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so. Well, on 15 from what I’ve learned is that you weren’t a commentator, you were starting to manage the Apollo News Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the Apollo News Center evolve, and what was its purpose, and what was your role with that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.398515625099709, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the Apollo News Center evolve, and what was its purpose, and what was your role with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the 15?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I ran the news center, but I don’t recall any big difference. On Apollo 16, I became a commentator again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also noticed that you were paired a lot of times with Jack Riley. Was that something that you liked working with him?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.109461805666342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the 15?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I ran the news center, but I don’t recall any big difference. On Apollo 16, I became a commentator again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also noticed that you were paired a lot of times with Jack Riley. Was that something that you liked working with him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, now, Riley and I are very close, not only business associates but close personal friends. In fact, Jack, well, he was number two guy in the office and had been that for years. He had a great sense of humor. In fact, what was the guy’s name that was the San Francisco columnist for a number of years? I’m trying to recall. He wrote something like some big promoter had written him and said that he was going to have the first topless place on the Moon, and Riley drafted the answer that said, “Dear So-and-so, bare breasts implode on the Moon.” [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably wasn’t the answer he expected."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.899402006295936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I ran the news center, but I don’t recall any big difference. On Apollo 16, I became a commentator again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also noticed that you were paired a lot of times with Jack Riley. Was that something that you liked working with him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, now, Riley and I are very close, not only business associates but close personal friends. In fact, Jack, well, he was number two guy in the office and had been that for years. He had a great sense of humor. In fact, what was the guy’s name that was the San Francisco columnist for a number of years? I’m trying to recall. He wrote something like some big promoter had written him and said that he was going to have the first topless place on the Moon, and Riley drafted the answer that said, “Dear So-and-so, bare breasts implode on the Moon.” [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably wasn’t the answer he expected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo 15 was the beginning of the science missions."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.777113340328818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, now, Riley and I are very close, not only business associates but close personal friends. In fact, Jack, well, he was number two guy in the office and had been that for years. He had a great sense of humor. In fact, what was the guy’s name that was the San Francisco columnist for a number of years? I’m trying to recall. He wrote something like some big promoter had written him and said that he was going to have the first topless place on the Moon, and Riley drafted the answer that said, “Dear So-and-so, bare breasts implode on the Moon.” [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably wasn’t the answer he expected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo 15 was the beginning of the science missions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your staff had to become informed on again new information."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.5301259336986845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo 15 was the beginning of the science missions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your staff had to become informed on again new information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was [David R.] Dave Scott’s mission, and we got caught a little bit by surprise by some of the things they were doing with the first-day covers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you elaborate a little bit on that and how that affected your office?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.144584370776316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your staff had to become informed on again new information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was [David R.] Dave Scott’s mission, and we got caught a little bit by surprise by some of the things they were doing with the first-day covers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you elaborate a little bit on that and how that affected your office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, it affected us in that I guess it looked kind of sleazy. It was Scott—who was it, [Alfred M.] Worden?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[James B.] Irwin."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.716204856418129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was [David R.] Dave Scott’s mission, and we got caught a little bit by surprise by some of the things they were doing with the first-day covers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you elaborate a little bit on that and how that affected your office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, it affected us in that I guess it looked kind of sleazy. It was Scott—who was it, [Alfred M.] Worden?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[James B.] Irwin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Irwin, yes. I think Scott may have been kind of the ringleader. Well, he was the commander, so you would assume he was the ringleader. But they were selling them at like $1,500 a whack, I think, and they had a bunch of them. Yes, that had an impact. It didn’t make us look good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like your office had to do somewhat of damage control?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.351338729353476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, it affected us in that I guess it looked kind of sleazy. It was Scott—who was it, [Alfred M.] Worden?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[James B.] Irwin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Irwin, yes. I think Scott may have been kind of the ringleader. Well, he was the commander, so you would assume he was the ringleader. But they were selling them at like $1,500 a whack, I think, and they had a bunch of them. Yes, that had an impact. It didn’t make us look good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like your office had to do somewhat of damage control?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you manage to accomplish that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.057043032614974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Irwin, yes. I think Scott may have been kind of the ringleader. Well, he was the commander, so you would assume he was the ringleader. But they were selling them at like $1,500 a whack, I think, and they had a bunch of them. Yes, that had an impact. It didn’t make us look good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like your office had to do somewhat of damage control?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you manage to accomplish that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m not sure you ever accomplish it fully, but we did try to do damage control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was also a time when we had a press conference that came from space. In August of [19]‘71 on their return home, they did a press conference. Do you recall any of the information or how that was handled coming from the crew?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.618936702905526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you manage to accomplish that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m not sure you ever accomplish it fully, but we did try to do damage control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was also a time when we had a press conference that came from space. In August of [19]‘71 on their return home, they did a press conference. Do you recall any of the information or how that was handled coming from the crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see, that was the Scott, Irwin, Worden crew. No, I don’t recall it offhand, but I know we’d planned to do that kind of thing, and I guess it worked out reasonably well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you worked as a commentator, you certainly worked with quite different flight directors through your career."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.243263003228362, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m not sure you ever accomplish it fully, but we did try to do damage control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was also a time when we had a press conference that came from space. In August of [19]‘71 on their return home, they did a press conference. Do you recall any of the information or how that was handled coming from the crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see, that was the Scott, Irwin, Worden crew. No, I don’t recall it offhand, but I know we’d planned to do that kind of thing, and I guess it worked out reasonably well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you worked as a commentator, you certainly worked with quite different flight directors through your career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to change the way you did your role based on the flight director, or did you have a continuity of how you did your job?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.825847781364847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see, that was the Scott, Irwin, Worden crew. No, I don’t recall it offhand, but I know we’d planned to do that kind of thing, and I guess it worked out reasonably well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you worked as a commentator, you certainly worked with quite different flight directors through your career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to change the way you did your role based on the flight director, or did you have a continuity of how you did your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I tried to do it pretty much the same way, but I know I tended to maybe talk a little louder than I should have, and I know Kranz didn’t like that, particularly as far as launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any other feelings or comments from the other flight directors on your job?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.4731642015164965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to change the way you did your role based on the flight director, or did you have a continuity of how you did your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I tried to do it pretty much the same way, but I know I tended to maybe talk a little louder than I should have, and I know Kranz didn’t like that, particularly as far as launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any other feelings or comments from the other flight directors on your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not that I can recall, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the flight directors, in your opinion, in your experience feel like the Public Affairs console was a needed console in that room?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.522424940143822, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not that I can recall, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the flight directors, in your opinion, in your experience feel like the Public Affairs console was a needed console in that room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think basically most of them did, including—who was it, [Clifford E.] Cliff Charlesworth. I guess Charlesworth—no, he’s no longer with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Charlesworth was one that I think was very pleasant. I would say that most of them were reasonable. I know Lunney was a very good one to work with. And Kranz. Kranz was different. He was very methodical and by the book, a very interesting guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s always been somewhat of a perception that there’s been a tension between the Public Affairs Office and maybe the flight controllers or the engineers or other groups on the center. Did you ever feel like there was a tension between your office?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.136027711270914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think basically most of them did, including—who was it, [Clifford E.] Cliff Charlesworth. I guess Charlesworth—no, he’s no longer with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Charlesworth was one that I think was very pleasant. I would say that most of them were reasonable. I know Lunney was a very good one to work with. And Kranz. Kranz was different. He was very methodical and by the book, a very interesting guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s always been somewhat of a perception that there’s been a tension between the Public Affairs Office and maybe the flight controllers or the engineers or other groups on the center. Did you ever feel like there was a tension between your office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never felt it that much with the flight controllers. Maybe to a degree it could be maybe with some of the engineers. I think that varied pretty widely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any idea why they felt that there should be a tension?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.706697456967682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Charlesworth was one that I think was very pleasant. I would say that most of them were reasonable. I know Lunney was a very good one to work with. And Kranz. Kranz was different. He was very methodical and by the book, a very interesting guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s always been somewhat of a perception that there’s been a tension between the Public Affairs Office and maybe the flight controllers or the engineers or other groups on the center. Did you ever feel like there was a tension between your office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never felt it that much with the flight controllers. Maybe to a degree it could be maybe with some of the engineers. I think that varied pretty widely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any idea why they felt that there should be a tension?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I really don’t, because I don’t think there should have been. I left NASA, I guess fairly early in the Shuttle Program, and that was interesting, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a different spacecraft, wasn’t it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.340774952186313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never felt it that much with the flight controllers. Maybe to a degree it could be maybe with some of the engineers. I think that varied pretty widely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any idea why they felt that there should be a tension?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I really don’t, because I don’t think there should have been. I left NASA, I guess fairly early in the Shuttle Program, and that was interesting, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a different spacecraft, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In between the last Apollo mission of 17, of course we had Skylab."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.045305502429236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I really don’t, because I don’t think there should have been. I left NASA, I guess fairly early in the Shuttle Program, and that was interesting, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a different spacecraft, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In between the last Apollo mission of 17, of course we had Skylab."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Public Affairs Office now again continued covering twenty-four hours a day. However, you were having missions that lasted weeks instead of days. How did your office adjust to this new era?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.49478389158804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In between the last Apollo mission of 17, of course we had Skylab."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Public Affairs Office now again continued covering twenty-four hours a day. However, you were having missions that lasted weeks instead of days. How did your office adjust to this new era?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you did that a little differently. I’m trying to recall. Apollo-Soyuz was very interesting, because that was a challenge. Apollo-Soyuz, because you had the two languages, you had the voice-over. Like we had—well, I’m trying to recall. We had a fellow who was an excellent Soviet interpreter, a Russian interpreter, I should say, and he would interpret what they were saying and kind of do a voice-over, and that was interesting. That was a big challenge as far as a mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he do this out of your new center or was he doing it in the MOCR?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.994204323986711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Public Affairs Office now again continued covering twenty-four hours a day. However, you were having missions that lasted weeks instead of days. How did your office adjust to this new era?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you did that a little differently. I’m trying to recall. Apollo-Soyuz was very interesting, because that was a challenge. Apollo-Soyuz, because you had the two languages, you had the voice-over. Like we had—well, I’m trying to recall. We had a fellow who was an excellent Soviet interpreter, a Russian interpreter, I should say, and he would interpret what they were saying and kind of do a voice-over, and that was interesting. That was a big challenge as far as a mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he do this out of your new center or was he doing it in the MOCR?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was doing it in a room next to the control center. I guess it was one of these staff support rooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you coordinated all of that information out of there as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.438004804429679, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you did that a little differently. I’m trying to recall. Apollo-Soyuz was very interesting, because that was a challenge. Apollo-Soyuz, because you had the two languages, you had the voice-over. Like we had—well, I’m trying to recall. We had a fellow who was an excellent Soviet interpreter, a Russian interpreter, I should say, and he would interpret what they were saying and kind of do a voice-over, and that was interesting. That was a big challenge as far as a mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he do this out of your new center or was he doing it in the MOCR?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was doing it in a room next to the control center. I guess it was one of these staff support rooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you coordinated all of that information out of there as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We used that as a voice-over, and he went—it was kind of like you could hear the Russian in the background, but you could hear his voice going over it, so it worked very well. I guess that was [Donald K. “Deke”] Slayton’s mission also. He was on that. Then I know the landing, that’s when they had a problem, and I forget what the problem was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think they had problems with the chutes not opening properly, and they had inhaled possibly some gasses."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8200053382551986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was doing it in a room next to the control center. I guess it was one of these staff support rooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you coordinated all of that information out of there as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We used that as a voice-over, and he went—it was kind of like you could hear the Russian in the background, but you could hear his voice going over it, so it worked very well. I guess that was [Donald K. “Deke”] Slayton’s mission also. He was on that. Then I know the landing, that’s when they had a problem, and I forget what the problem was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think they had problems with the chutes not opening properly, and they had inhaled possibly some gasses."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was it, yes, the inhalation. I recall that because I started getting phone calls in the middle of the night on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction and actions when you would get these phone calls? How did you start to get the process rolling to get this information out?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.24445037583911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We used that as a voice-over, and he went—it was kind of like you could hear the Russian in the background, but you could hear his voice going over it, so it worked very well. I guess that was [Donald K. “Deke”] Slayton’s mission also. He was on that. Then I know the landing, that’s when they had a problem, and I forget what the problem was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think they had problems with the chutes not opening properly, and they had inhaled possibly some gasses."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was it, yes, the inhalation. I recall that because I started getting phone calls in the middle of the night on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction and actions when you would get these phone calls? How did you start to get the process rolling to get this information out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied pretty widely, depending on who called and what they wanted. You’d go to the experts as best you could. Again, if it was you’re an important member of the press, and I guess you could say all of them were at least in their own minds were important, but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did time serve as a bigger factor or did you try to—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.716055973154566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was it, yes, the inhalation. I recall that because I started getting phone calls in the middle of the night on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction and actions when you would get these phone calls? How did you start to get the process rolling to get this information out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied pretty widely, depending on who called and what they wanted. You’d go to the experts as best you could. Again, if it was you’re an important member of the press, and I guess you could say all of them were at least in their own minds were important, but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did time serve as a bigger factor or did you try to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You say time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the timeliness or did you try to gather information as you can to have a complete report?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.240062192393962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied pretty widely, depending on who called and what they wanted. You’d go to the experts as best you could. Again, if it was you’re an important member of the press, and I guess you could say all of them were at least in their own minds were important, but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did time serve as a bigger factor or did you try to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You say time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the timeliness or did you try to gather information as you can to have a complete report?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was a combination of both. You’d try and get it fairly timely, but you’d also want to make sure it was accurate as best you could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So much information to gather from so many sources in such little time must have been such a challenge that you looked at every day."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:457", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.82229132488218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You say time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the timeliness or did you try to gather information as you can to have a complete report?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was a combination of both. You’d try and get it fairly timely, but you’d also want to make sure it was accurate as best you could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So much information to gather from so many sources in such little time must have been such a challenge that you looked at every day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or especially in these crisis situations at that. During Apollo-Soyuz in 1975, NBC approached NASA to broadcast from the Mission Control Center."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.469212583202422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was a combination of both. You’d try and get it fairly timely, but you’d also want to make sure it was accurate as best you could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So much information to gather from so many sources in such little time must have been such a challenge that you looked at every day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or especially in these crisis situations at that. During Apollo-Soyuz in 1975, NBC approached NASA to broadcast from the Mission Control Center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You helped negotiate that agreement."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.188013981336025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or especially in these crisis situations at that. During Apollo-Soyuz in 1975, NBC approached NASA to broadcast from the Mission Control Center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You helped negotiate that agreement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.7644599792622495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You helped negotiate that agreement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I guess they used the floor above or below, I don’t recall which. Jim Kitchell [phonetic] was the guy’s name who was the NBC man at the time that handled their space stuff. Yes, they did broadcasts from there, and it was an interesting way to do it. They just came in with the proposal and I guess I talked to—I’m trying to recall, maybe it was either Jack King or [Harold S.] Hal Stall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m not quite sure."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.40495553251361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I guess they used the floor above or below, I don’t recall which. Jim Kitchell [phonetic] was the guy’s name who was the NBC man at the time that handled their space stuff. Yes, they did broadcasts from there, and it was an interesting way to do it. They just came in with the proposal and I guess I talked to—I’m trying to recall, maybe it was either Jack King or [Harold S.] Hal Stall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m not quite sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was somewhere in that time frame. But we put the deal together, and it worked out, I think, reasonably well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised that a national broadcasting system of that type wanted to come in and start using that as their background?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.116617258348456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I guess they used the floor above or below, I don’t recall which. Jim Kitchell [phonetic] was the guy’s name who was the NBC man at the time that handled their space stuff. Yes, they did broadcasts from there, and it was an interesting way to do it. They just came in with the proposal and I guess I talked to—I’m trying to recall, maybe it was either Jack King or [Harold S.] Hal Stall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m not quite sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was somewhere in that time frame. But we put the deal together, and it worked out, I think, reasonably well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised that a national broadcasting system of that type wanted to come in and start using that as their background?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I don’t guess I was. They had covered the space program pretty thoroughly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it set up when they broadcast? Was it in actually the MOCR?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.907352509276063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was somewhere in that time frame. But we put the deal together, and it worked out, I think, reasonably well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you surprised that a national broadcasting system of that type wanted to come in and start using that as their background?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I don’t guess I was. They had covered the space program pretty thoroughly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it set up when they broadcast? Was it in actually the MOCR?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was in—and I forget which floor. I think we were out on the second floor and they were the third floor, but it was a separate floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to secure special badges and credentials for them to move their equipment there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.785947232528958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I don’t guess I was. They had covered the space program pretty thoroughly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it set up when they broadcast? Was it in actually the MOCR?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was in—and I forget which floor. I think we were out on the second floor and they were the third floor, but it was a separate floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to secure special badges and credentials for them to move their equipment there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think we did. As I recall now, we had to do that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess somewhat restricted they were put in that area."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.762163591698842, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was in—and I forget which floor. I think we were out on the second floor and they were the third floor, but it was a separate floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to secure special badges and credentials for them to move their equipment there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think we did. As I recall now, we had to do that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess somewhat restricted they were put in that area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that had to be very interesting. How long did they do that? Did they just do that for that one mission?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.846848435220936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think we did. As I recall now, we had to do that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess somewhat restricted they were put in that area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that had to be very interesting. How long did they do that? Did they just do that for that one mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One mission, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, it was the final Apollo mission as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.052053816912151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that had to be very interesting. How long did they do that? Did they just do that for that one mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One mission, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, it was the final Apollo mission as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You moved into the Shuttle time period, and there were some years that you didn’t have missions."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:479", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.391170907680168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One mission, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, it was the final Apollo mission as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You moved into the Shuttle time period, and there were some years that you didn’t have missions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that is true, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did Public Affairs adjust to—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.323523230755741, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You moved into the Shuttle time period, and there were some years that you didn’t have missions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that is true, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did Public Affairs adjust to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was kind of a miserable time, frankly. I guess we had these things at Edwards [Air Force Base, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center], where they had flown. Then you had all the tile coming off and that kind of thing, and that was different. But then finally I guess I did the first launch commentary for STS-1, which was [John W.] Young and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Robert L.] Crippen."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.041386704636718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was kind of a miserable time, frankly. I guess we had these things at Edwards [Air Force Base, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center], where they had flown. Then you had all the tile coming off and that kind of thing, and that was different. But then finally I guess I did the first launch commentary for STS-1, which was [John W.] Young and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Robert L.] Crippen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Crippen, yes. As I recall, that was launched on April the 12th, 1981. Right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was kind of an exciting mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that for you to see the excitement back in the space program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.93487411626302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Crippen, yes. As I recall, that was launched on April the 12th, 1981. Right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was kind of an exciting mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that for you to see the excitement back in the space program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I liked it. I liked that a lot. I guess I also did the commentary when Sally [K.] Ride flew, and Jack Riley we used as the landing commentator on, I guess, most of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, now it’s different that we had a different type of landing on the spacecraft now."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.92763790695891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was kind of an exciting mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that for you to see the excitement back in the space program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I liked it. I liked that a lot. I guess I also did the commentary when Sally [K.] Ride flew, and Jack Riley we used as the landing commentator on, I guess, most of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, now it’s different that we had a different type of landing on the spacecraft now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. Yes. The landing, I guess, was at Edwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The approach and landing tests and other testing that was done for the Shuttle was done at Edwards. How was your office involved in releasing the information of what was going on down there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.919597674398789, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I liked it. I liked that a lot. I guess I also did the commentary when Sally [K.] Ride flew, and Jack Riley we used as the landing commentator on, I guess, most of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, now it’s different that we had a different type of landing on the spacecraft now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. Yes. The landing, I guess, was at Edwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The approach and landing tests and other testing that was done for the Shuttle was done at Edwards. How was your office involved in releasing the information of what was going on down there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we tried to send someone there. I think I used a guy name Bob Gordon some, who spent some time there. In fact, he was covering the Shuttle Program at the time for us. The way we set up the organization, we gave people beat assignments, like someone would cover the Shuttle program, someone would cover some other program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the majority of the Shuttle information that was being released to the press from NASA coming from your office at JSC or was it coming from Edwards?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.91066408266532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. Yes. The landing, I guess, was at Edwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The approach and landing tests and other testing that was done for the Shuttle was done at Edwards. How was your office involved in releasing the information of what was going on down there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we tried to send someone there. I think I used a guy name Bob Gordon some, who spent some time there. In fact, he was covering the Shuttle Program at the time for us. The way we set up the organization, we gave people beat assignments, like someone would cover the Shuttle program, someone would cover some other program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the majority of the Shuttle information that was being released to the press from NASA coming from your office at JSC or was it coming from Edwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’d say most of it was coming from us. Yes, most of it would be. Because Edwards was more of a facility. Plus they only had, as I recall, back in those days they had several sort of a one-man operation, a guy named Ralph Jackson who ran the their office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Public Affairs on every center a bit of its own entity or did you get direction from NASA Headquarters on how Public Affairs needed to be handled?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.678515647405912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we tried to send someone there. I think I used a guy name Bob Gordon some, who spent some time there. In fact, he was covering the Shuttle Program at the time for us. The way we set up the organization, we gave people beat assignments, like someone would cover the Shuttle program, someone would cover some other program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the majority of the Shuttle information that was being released to the press from NASA coming from your office at JSC or was it coming from Edwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’d say most of it was coming from us. Yes, most of it would be. Because Edwards was more of a facility. Plus they only had, as I recall, back in those days they had several sort of a one-man operation, a guy named Ralph Jackson who ran the their office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Public Affairs on every center a bit of its own entity or did you get direction from NASA Headquarters on how Public Affairs needed to be handled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it varied pretty widely as to who you had in charge in Headquarters. A fellow named Julian Scheer, you know, made sure you ran it his way. Then you had a fellow named John Donnelly, who I guess to a lesser degree may have been that way. Then I guess recently they’ve had some that—I’ve lost track of what they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But your office was pretty much through Haney and Duff and King. You guys created your policies and guidelines?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.531684052673235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’d say most of it was coming from us. Yes, most of it would be. Because Edwards was more of a facility. Plus they only had, as I recall, back in those days they had several sort of a one-man operation, a guy named Ralph Jackson who ran the their office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Public Affairs on every center a bit of its own entity or did you get direction from NASA Headquarters on how Public Affairs needed to be handled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it varied pretty widely as to who you had in charge in Headquarters. A fellow named Julian Scheer, you know, made sure you ran it his way. Then you had a fellow named John Donnelly, who I guess to a lesser degree may have been that way. Then I guess recently they’ve had some that—I’ve lost track of what they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But your office was pretty much through Haney and Duff and King. You guys created your policies and guidelines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much, but you also conformed. I think Scheer is the one that finally moved Haney out. He kind of moved him upstairs. They gave him a strange assignment, and Haney didn’t accept it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because so many new things were happening at that time, I was wondering if there was a funnel that controlled most of the information, because you had mentioned that Dr. Gilruth really didn’t get involved with Public Affairs, but I was wondering if there was—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.368537836303593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it varied pretty widely as to who you had in charge in Headquarters. A fellow named Julian Scheer, you know, made sure you ran it his way. Then you had a fellow named John Donnelly, who I guess to a lesser degree may have been that way. Then I guess recently they’ve had some that—I’ve lost track of what they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But your office was pretty much through Haney and Duff and King. You guys created your policies and guidelines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much, but you also conformed. I think Scheer is the one that finally moved Haney out. He kind of moved him upstairs. They gave him a strange assignment, and Haney didn’t accept it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because so many new things were happening at that time, I was wondering if there was a funnel that controlled most of the information, because you had mentioned that Dr. Gilruth really didn’t get involved with Public Affairs, but I was wondering if there was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Gilruth, I think he found it sort of fascinating. He seemed interested, but he knew he was not—Gilruth was not a forceful, dynamic sort of guy. He was not a [Dr. Werhner] Von Braun, and he probably knew that. But he was a very charming, delightful guy, as I’m sure you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other situations that occurred during those later years of the Apollo time and moving into Shuttle involved medical discussions as more broadcasts were being done and, of course, the press was more involved on the day-to-day activities of the missions. There were a lot of discussions about how medical information could be transferred or not transferred. How did your office deal with those privacy issues, especially during Skylab when there might have been discussions or could have been included in the transcriptions of medical discussions?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.965042040337326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much, but you also conformed. I think Scheer is the one that finally moved Haney out. He kind of moved him upstairs. They gave him a strange assignment, and Haney didn’t accept it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because so many new things were happening at that time, I was wondering if there was a funnel that controlled most of the information, because you had mentioned that Dr. Gilruth really didn’t get involved with Public Affairs, but I was wondering if there was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Gilruth, I think he found it sort of fascinating. He seemed interested, but he knew he was not—Gilruth was not a forceful, dynamic sort of guy. He was not a [Dr. Werhner] Von Braun, and he probably knew that. But he was a very charming, delightful guy, as I’m sure you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other situations that occurred during those later years of the Apollo time and moving into Shuttle involved medical discussions as more broadcasts were being done and, of course, the press was more involved on the day-to-day activities of the missions. There were a lot of discussions about how medical information could be transferred or not transferred. How did your office deal with those privacy issues, especially during Skylab when there might have been discussions or could have been included in the transcriptions of medical discussions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m trying to recall how we did that in Skylab. Because Skylab, as you pointed out accurately, is very long-duration missions. They went from twenty-eight days to fifty-six. We operated a little different in Skylab in that we kept the news center open, but it was kind on a low-key basis. As far as medical, I think we had some things where you declared them private, as I recall, the medical stuff particularly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your staff privy to those private conversations?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.627824489263696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Gilruth, I think he found it sort of fascinating. He seemed interested, but he knew he was not—Gilruth was not a forceful, dynamic sort of guy. He was not a [Dr. Werhner] Von Braun, and he probably knew that. But he was a very charming, delightful guy, as I’m sure you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other situations that occurred during those later years of the Apollo time and moving into Shuttle involved medical discussions as more broadcasts were being done and, of course, the press was more involved on the day-to-day activities of the missions. There were a lot of discussions about how medical information could be transferred or not transferred. How did your office deal with those privacy issues, especially during Skylab when there might have been discussions or could have been included in the transcriptions of medical discussions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m trying to recall how we did that in Skylab. Because Skylab, as you pointed out accurately, is very long-duration missions. They went from twenty-eight days to fifty-six. We operated a little different in Skylab in that we kept the news center open, but it was kind on a low-key basis. As far as medical, I think we had some things where you declared them private, as I recall, the medical stuff particularly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your staff privy to those private conversations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. My recollection was that we were not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you basically turned that over to the flight control team and the astronauts to handle that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:505", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.3642494325152175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m trying to recall how we did that in Skylab. Because Skylab, as you pointed out accurately, is very long-duration missions. They went from twenty-eight days to fifty-six. We operated a little different in Skylab in that we kept the news center open, but it was kind on a low-key basis. As far as medical, I think we had some things where you declared them private, as I recall, the medical stuff particularly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your staff privy to those private conversations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. My recollection was that we were not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you basically turned that over to the flight control team and the astronauts to handle that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If they considered it to be private?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:507", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.071388258350241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. My recollection was that we were not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you basically turned that over to the flight control team and the astronauts to handle that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If they considered it to be private?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The doctors, Chuck Berry or whoever was the doctor at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another area that you were in during the Shuttle time is reviewing and approving some press releases that the government contractors wanted to release regarding their products. Do you recall any of those situations where you were reviewing information that they wanted to release information on their own about what they were doing for the Shuttle?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.857098064833601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If they considered it to be private?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The doctors, Chuck Berry or whoever was the doctor at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another area that you were in during the Shuttle time is reviewing and approving some press releases that the government contractors wanted to release regarding their products. Do you recall any of those situations where you were reviewing information that they wanted to release information on their own about what they were doing for the Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, who was that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The contractors that were building parts of it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.507886738704001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The doctors, Chuck Berry or whoever was the doctor at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another area that you were in during the Shuttle time is reviewing and approving some press releases that the government contractors wanted to release regarding their products. Do you recall any of those situations where you were reviewing information that they wanted to release information on their own about what they were doing for the Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, who was that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The contractors that were building parts of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, the Rockwells [North American Rockwell Corporation] and the—well, I’m not sure I remember that in any kind of specificity. Well, I guess Rockwell was the prime. I don’t recall any problems with release of information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have to check with your office before they released information?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.230985265226668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, who was that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The contractors that were building parts of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, the Rockwells [North American Rockwell Corporation] and the—well, I’m not sure I remember that in any kind of specificity. Well, I guess Rockwell was the prime. I don’t recall any problems with release of information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have to check with your office before they released information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were supposed to. In most cases I think they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that part of their contract?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.034428072474075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, the Rockwells [North American Rockwell Corporation] and the—well, I’m not sure I remember that in any kind of specificity. Well, I guess Rockwell was the prime. I don’t recall any problems with release of information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have to check with your office before they released information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were supposed to. In most cases I think they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that part of their contract?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That they couldn’t release things without going through you first. Another change in NASA during some of your final years was that we had a new class of astronauts for the first time in a long time. In [19]‘77 they made the announcement that we were going to have a new class. Well, they selected that class in ‘77."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:517", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.927142302748972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were supposed to. In most cases I think they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that part of their contract?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That they couldn’t release things without going through you first. Another change in NASA during some of your final years was that we had a new class of astronauts for the first time in a long time. In [19]‘77 they made the announcement that we were going to have a new class. Well, they selected that class in ‘77."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Included the women, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your office handle this information? Was it anything different than you’d done before? Tell us about that time period."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.919047003054413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That they couldn’t release things without going through you first. Another change in NASA during some of your final years was that we had a new class of astronauts for the first time in a long time. In [19]‘77 they made the announcement that we were going to have a new class. Well, they selected that class in ‘77."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Included the women, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your office handle this information? Was it anything different than you’d done before? Tell us about that time period."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did it pretty much the same way. I’m trying to recall how many we had in that first group. Do you have a number?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have six female and four minority astronaut candidates in that class."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.021163336727126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Included the women, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your office handle this information? Was it anything different than you’d done before? Tell us about that time period."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did it pretty much the same way. I’m trying to recall how many we had in that first group. Do you have a number?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have six female and four minority astronaut candidates in that class."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. That sounds right. Plus there were—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Plus, of course, the rest of the—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:523", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.245737040807917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did it pretty much the same way. I’m trying to recall how many we had in that first group. Do you have a number?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have six female and four minority astronaut candidates in that class."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. That sounds right. Plus there were—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Plus, of course, the rest of the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There may been like thirty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thirty, I believe."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.384152267564351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. That sounds right. Plus there were—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Plus, of course, the rest of the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There may been like thirty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thirty, I believe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, okay. No, we put out the releases pretty much in a standard kind of way. I do recall trying to—I was talking to Dan Rather, trying to sell him on the idea of a\\n\\n 60 Minutes\\n\\n thing with the women, which he found interesting, but I think they finally decided not to do it. But I figured that was worth a pitch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have other venues that you tried to use to promote NASA? You mentioned just then about talking to Dan Rather and trying to get this idea out to the public that they were selecting women. What other types of things did you do to help promote NASA to the public?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.53794696396039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There may been like thirty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thirty, I believe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, okay. No, we put out the releases pretty much in a standard kind of way. I do recall trying to—I was talking to Dan Rather, trying to sell him on the idea of a\\n\\n 60 Minutes\\n\\n thing with the women, which he found interesting, but I think they finally decided not to do it. But I figured that was worth a pitch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have other venues that you tried to use to promote NASA? You mentioned just then about talking to Dan Rather and trying to get this idea out to the public that they were selecting women. What other types of things did you do to help promote NASA to the public?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m trying to recall. I’m not sure I had any that was as specific as that. I remember the name of the ad agency, Young & Rubicam . That was Tang-General Foods. I wanted to say that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder how many times that people do remember Tang and not remember—you always remember it to be part of the space program as well. That was an interesting fact for us to find out was how a lot of that came through your office."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.708829959955988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, okay. No, we put out the releases pretty much in a standard kind of way. I do recall trying to—I was talking to Dan Rather, trying to sell him on the idea of a\\n\\n 60 Minutes\\n\\n thing with the women, which he found interesting, but I think they finally decided not to do it. But I figured that was worth a pitch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have other venues that you tried to use to promote NASA? You mentioned just then about talking to Dan Rather and trying to get this idea out to the public that they were selecting women. What other types of things did you do to help promote NASA to the public?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m trying to recall. I’m not sure I had any that was as specific as that. I remember the name of the ad agency, Young & Rubicam . That was Tang-General Foods. I wanted to say that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder how many times that people do remember Tang and not remember—you always remember it to be part of the space program as well. That was an interesting fact for us to find out was how a lot of that came through your office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. They were really first-class people to deal, the Young & Rubicams were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have people, vendors and such, that would come to you for help to get their products to be incorporated with the space program? Would people approach you first or did you just get them after they had been approved by the NASA management?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.67647773328443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m trying to recall. I’m not sure I had any that was as specific as that. I remember the name of the ad agency, Young & Rubicam . That was Tang-General Foods. I wanted to say that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder how many times that people do remember Tang and not remember—you always remember it to be part of the space program as well. That was an interesting fact for us to find out was how a lot of that came through your office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. They were really first-class people to deal, the Young & Rubicams were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have people, vendors and such, that would come to you for help to get their products to be incorporated with the space program? Would people approach you first or did you just get them after they had been approved by the NASA management?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably we had some that might have approached you first. I think Velcro became very active. A fellow named Harold Williams was their PR [public relations] man for a number of years, and he was local. I guess he also handled some of Fisher’s stuff. He got kind of involved in the off-beat sort of stuff, slightly different kind of contracts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent more than twenty years of service with NASA in Houston and have done such a wide variety of activities during your responsibilities. What do you consider to be your most challenging milestone in your career?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:533", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.75164192587159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. They were really first-class people to deal, the Young & Rubicams were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have people, vendors and such, that would come to you for help to get their products to be incorporated with the space program? Would people approach you first or did you just get them after they had been approved by the NASA management?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably we had some that might have approached you first. I think Velcro became very active. A fellow named Harold Williams was their PR [public relations] man for a number of years, and he was local. I guess he also handled some of Fisher’s stuff. He got kind of involved in the off-beat sort of stuff, slightly different kind of contracts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent more than twenty years of service with NASA in Houston and have done such a wide variety of activities during your responsibilities. What do you consider to be your most challenging milestone in your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most challenging milestone. Well, I’m trying to think what would be the most challenging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could share with us more than one, if you’d like."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.835157695412878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably we had some that might have approached you first. I think Velcro became very active. A fellow named Harold Williams was their PR [public relations] man for a number of years, and he was local. I guess he also handled some of Fisher’s stuff. He got kind of involved in the off-beat sort of stuff, slightly different kind of contracts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent more than twenty years of service with NASA in Houston and have done such a wide variety of activities during your responsibilities. What do you consider to be your most challenging milestone in your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most challenging milestone. Well, I’m trying to think what would be the most challenging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could share with us more than one, if you’d like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, I found Apollo 11 very exciting and the fact the quarantine assignment was different and that was interesting. The early Shuttle missions I thought were exciting and different.\\n\\n Skylab was quite different in that it was a new challenge. Skylab, because of the length of the missions, as you pointed out, we had the news center operating, but not at full tilt twenty-four hours. We might have a couple of people on versus the full staff twenty-four hours a day.\\n\\n But as far as the most challenging, I don’t know how you decide that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your staff, did you have a lot of turnover or did you find that people wanted to work in that office and stay there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.816841883792087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most challenging milestone. Well, I’m trying to think what would be the most challenging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could share with us more than one, if you’d like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, I found Apollo 11 very exciting and the fact the quarantine assignment was different and that was interesting. The early Shuttle missions I thought were exciting and different.\\n\\n Skylab was quite different in that it was a new challenge. Skylab, because of the length of the missions, as you pointed out, we had the news center operating, but not at full tilt twenty-four hours. We might have a couple of people on versus the full staff twenty-four hours a day.\\n\\n But as far as the most challenging, I don’t know how you decide that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your staff, did you have a lot of turnover or did you find that people wanted to work in that office and stay there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think we had that much turnover. We had some. I know [Robert V.] Bob Gordon finally quit in sort of a huff because we hired a fellow named Dave Alter, who he did not like, and that turned out to be kind of a different operation, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to add on staff when you needed it at busy times or was your budget pretty restricted?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:539", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.907602093102318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, I found Apollo 11 very exciting and the fact the quarantine assignment was different and that was interesting. The early Shuttle missions I thought were exciting and different.\\n\\n Skylab was quite different in that it was a new challenge. Skylab, because of the length of the missions, as you pointed out, we had the news center operating, but not at full tilt twenty-four hours. We might have a couple of people on versus the full staff twenty-four hours a day.\\n\\n But as far as the most challenging, I don’t know how you decide that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your staff, did you have a lot of turnover or did you find that people wanted to work in that office and stay there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think we had that much turnover. We had some. I know [Robert V.] Bob Gordon finally quit in sort of a huff because we hired a fellow named Dave Alter, who he did not like, and that turned out to be kind of a different operation, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to add on staff when you needed it at busy times or was your budget pretty restricted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s begun to rain again, ladies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it is."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.119557881224797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think we had that much turnover. We had some. I know [Robert V.] Bob Gordon finally quit in sort of a huff because we hired a fellow named Dave Alter, who he did not like, and that turned out to be kind of a different operation, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to add on staff when you needed it at busy times or was your budget pretty restricted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s begun to rain again, ladies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sorry. Sorry we brought you over to all this weather.\\n\\n Yes, we were able to add staff some, I think. But it was not like you had a\\n\\n carte blanche\\n\\n ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you believe that NASA gave you a direction to have an open policy with the press, or did you believe from your experiences that there were a lot of restrictions on the information that you could—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:543", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.466175423583106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s begun to rain again, ladies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sorry. Sorry we brought you over to all this weather.\\n\\n Yes, we were able to add staff some, I think. But it was not like you had a\\n\\n carte blanche\\n\\n ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you believe that NASA gave you a direction to have an open policy with the press, or did you believe from your experiences that there were a lot of restrictions on the information that you could—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think when you say NASA, I think if you say like Julian Scheer, yes, he wanted you to be very open and very candid. He also had a policy which I liked, whereas you always spoke for attribution. You did not say “an unnamed source,” and I liked that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a time during your career that you think back and think the most fondly of? It might have been the early days or your Apollo days. I know you had mentioned about the quarantine time, but I was just wondering if there was a span of time that you just—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.295750470647896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sorry. Sorry we brought you over to all this weather.\\n\\n Yes, we were able to add staff some, I think. But it was not like you had a\\n\\n carte blanche\\n\\n ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you believe that NASA gave you a direction to have an open policy with the press, or did you believe from your experiences that there were a lot of restrictions on the information that you could—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think when you say NASA, I think if you say like Julian Scheer, yes, he wanted you to be very open and very candid. He also had a policy which I liked, whereas you always spoke for attribution. You did not say “an unnamed source,” and I liked that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a time during your career that you think back and think the most fondly of? It might have been the early days or your Apollo days. I know you had mentioned about the quarantine time, but I was just wondering if there was a span of time that you just—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I thought Apollo days were extremely interesting. That’s when you had contacts with people like [Walter] Cronkite. In fact, I guess Cronkite even called a time or two. It may have been [General Thomas P.] Tom Stafford being on the—about the time he was getting ready to be launched for Apollo 10. I remember he had talked to Cronkite. Tom, he had a tendency to break all the conventional astronaut rules. He was an interesting guy, too. He kind of reminded you—he sounded a little bit like Lyndon Johnson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, he’s from Oklahoma. That’s not too far away from Texas."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:547", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.217500522942107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think when you say NASA, I think if you say like Julian Scheer, yes, he wanted you to be very open and very candid. He also had a policy which I liked, whereas you always spoke for attribution. You did not say “an unnamed source,” and I liked that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a time during your career that you think back and think the most fondly of? It might have been the early days or your Apollo days. I know you had mentioned about the quarantine time, but I was just wondering if there was a span of time that you just—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I thought Apollo days were extremely interesting. That’s when you had contacts with people like [Walter] Cronkite. In fact, I guess Cronkite even called a time or two. It may have been [General Thomas P.] Tom Stafford being on the—about the time he was getting ready to be launched for Apollo 10. I remember he had talked to Cronkite. Tom, he had a tendency to break all the conventional astronaut rules. He was an interesting guy, too. He kind of reminded you—he sounded a little bit like Lyndon Johnson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, he’s from Oklahoma. That’s not too far away from Texas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that’s right. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you a native Texan?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.241667247713451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I thought Apollo days were extremely interesting. That’s when you had contacts with people like [Walter] Cronkite. In fact, I guess Cronkite even called a time or two. It may have been [General Thomas P.] Tom Stafford being on the—about the time he was getting ready to be launched for Apollo 10. I remember he had talked to Cronkite. Tom, he had a tendency to break all the conventional astronaut rules. He was an interesting guy, too. He kind of reminded you—he sounded a little bit like Lyndon Johnson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, he’s from Oklahoma. That’s not too far away from Texas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that’s right. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you a native Texan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where are you from originally?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.712963608570502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that’s right. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you a native Texan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where are you from originally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Houston, grew up down in the Rio Grande Valley, a little town named Weslaco, and went to college at Rice [University, Houston, Texas] for three years and then finished at Houston [University of Houston, Houston, Texas]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point in your time did you ever think about jumping to that other side, to move into the broadcast or the print side and leaving NASA?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:553", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.236626231745002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where are you from originally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Houston, grew up down in the Rio Grande Valley, a little town named Weslaco, and went to college at Rice [University, Houston, Texas] for three years and then finished at Houston [University of Houston, Houston, Texas]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point in your time did you ever think about jumping to that other side, to move into the broadcast or the print side and leaving NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. No, I never had that kind of an interest. I think I was probably well positioned in the kind of job I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you left NASA, did you continue in your journalism career?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:555", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.81847359082778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Houston, grew up down in the Rio Grande Valley, a little town named Weslaco, and went to college at Rice [University, Houston, Texas] for three years and then finished at Houston [University of Houston, Houston, Texas]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point in your time did you ever think about jumping to that other side, to move into the broadcast or the print side and leaving NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. No, I never had that kind of an interest. I think I was probably well positioned in the kind of job I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you left NASA, did you continue in your journalism career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven’t really done that much with it. As you can see, we live here now and they’re kind of happy that we do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had read somewhere where you work as somewhat of a consultant with children’s books on space, is that true?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:557", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.464970656475311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. No, I never had that kind of an interest. I think I was probably well positioned in the kind of job I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you left NASA, did you continue in your journalism career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven’t really done that much with it. As you can see, we live here now and they’re kind of happy that we do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had read somewhere where you work as somewhat of a consultant with children’s books on space, is that true?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did do some of that. I’m trying to recall the name of the outfit. But I did do some. It was more of a technical review thing, where I would review some of their stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That knowledge is still back in the recesses of your mind, I guess, all those years."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:559", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.183300729417011, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven’t really done that much with it. As you can see, we live here now and they’re kind of happy that we do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had read somewhere where you work as somewhat of a consultant with children’s books on space, is that true?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did do some of that. I’m trying to recall the name of the outfit. But I did do some. It was more of a technical review thing, where I would review some of their stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That knowledge is still back in the recesses of your mind, I guess, all those years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I guess. That was sort of fun. They didn’t pay much money, but I really didn’t need to get much from them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As we close today, can you think of anything that you would like to share with us that we might not have covered, maybe a special story or a unique memory, any anecdote that you can think of that we can add?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.870334143796679, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did do some of that. I’m trying to recall the name of the outfit. But I did do some. It was more of a technical review thing, where I would review some of their stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That knowledge is still back in the recesses of your mind, I guess, all those years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I guess. That was sort of fun. They didn’t pay much money, but I really didn’t need to get much from them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As we close today, can you think of anything that you would like to share with us that we might not have covered, maybe a special story or a unique memory, any anecdote that you can think of that we can add?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. Let me think. No, I can’t think of anything. You got to meet and be and around a lot of interesting people in that time frame. Norman Mailer covered the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your impression of him?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:565", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.24732610345269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s see. Let me think. No, I can’t think of anything. You got to meet and be and around a lot of interesting people in that time frame. Norman Mailer covered the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your impression of him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was different, very interesting. In fact, he was somehow tied in, I guess, with a lady who worked for\\n\\n Life\\n\\n magazine at the time. Her name was Dodie Goodwin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know her?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that name, yes."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:567", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.830362337169656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was different, very interesting. In fact, he was somehow tied in, I guess, with a lady who worked for\\n\\n Life\\n\\n magazine at the time. Her name was Dodie Goodwin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know her?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that name, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. But I recall, in fact, we have a picture of I think it was one of the news conferences where I’m behind the glass, because we were doing it that way just to practice, I suppose, pre-mission, and Mailer is sitting out there and she is and some of the other press.\\n\\n [Referring to rain] Boy, oh, boy, oh, boy. You’re going to drive back tonight?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we’re going to be here in town."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:569", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.4781803746329505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know her?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that name, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. But I recall, in fact, we have a picture of I think it was one of the news conferences where I’m behind the glass, because we were doing it that way just to practice, I suppose, pre-mission, and Mailer is sitting out there and she is and some of the other press.\\n\\n [Referring to rain] Boy, oh, boy, oh, boy. You’re going to drive back tonight?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we’re going to be here in town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, I’m glad to hear that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we are, too.\\n\\n I was going to ask Sandra as well, did you have any questions you’d like to ask?\n\nI just had a couple. During the time that you were in quarantine, what exactly did you report on? Did you report on the astronauts’ day-to-day activities?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:571", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.0868670829255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. But I recall, in fact, we have a picture of I think it was one of the news conferences where I’m behind the glass, because we were doing it that way just to practice, I suppose, pre-mission, and Mailer is sitting out there and she is and some of the other press.\\n\\n [Referring to rain] Boy, oh, boy, oh, boy. You’re going to drive back tonight?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we’re going to be here in town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, I’m glad to hear that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we are, too.\\n\\n I was going to ask Sandra as well, did you have any questions you’d like to ask?\n\nI just had a couple. During the time that you were in quarantine, what exactly did you report on? Did you report on the astronauts’ day-to-day activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s what you tried to do as much as you could. There was a time or two I got the astronauts a little upset with me, at least in one case, I guess it was Collins more than anything else, where there was a church service, and I reported honestly the only one that showed up was Armstrong. I guess the only reason he showed up was because I had showed him a release that said we were going to talk about this. He showed up and I guess Aldrin and Collins did not, and they were not happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have any duties during that quarantine time that they were supposed to be doing, any sort of thing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.763185647695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, I’m glad to hear that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we are, too.\\n\\n I was going to ask Sandra as well, did you have any questions you’d like to ask?\n\nI just had a couple. During the time that you were in quarantine, what exactly did you report on? Did you report on the astronauts’ day-to-day activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s what you tried to do as much as you could. There was a time or two I got the astronauts a little upset with me, at least in one case, I guess it was Collins more than anything else, where there was a church service, and I reported honestly the only one that showed up was Armstrong. I guess the only reason he showed up was because I had showed him a release that said we were going to talk about this. He showed up and I guess Aldrin and Collins did not, and they were not happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have any duties during that quarantine time that they were supposed to be doing, any sort of thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they pass their time or how did you pass your time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:576", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.40353960855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s what you tried to do as much as you could. There was a time or two I got the astronauts a little upset with me, at least in one case, I guess it was Collins more than anything else, where there was a church service, and I reported honestly the only one that showed up was Armstrong. I guess the only reason he showed up was because I had showed him a release that said we were going to talk about this. He showed up and I guess Aldrin and Collins did not, and they were not happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have any duties during that quarantine time that they were supposed to be doing, any sort of thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they pass their time or how did you pass your time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they had debriefings, and I did sit in on some of their debriefings to listen to those, and that was kind of a fascinating thing to do. But it was also fascinating because you could see Collins was not—he knew he was not on the surface of the Moon, so he would be sitting there reading something like\\n\\n Aviation Week\\n\\n while they were talking about all what they had done and this kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they get to see any of the news coverage of their actual flight once they were in quarantine and any of the reactions? I’m thinking particularly the pictures that we’ve all seen of people standing in Times Square [New York City, New York] and people just watching it in awe. Did they ever get to see any of that during quarantine?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:578", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.1150440095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they pass their time or how did you pass your time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they had debriefings, and I did sit in on some of their debriefings to listen to those, and that was kind of a fascinating thing to do. But it was also fascinating because you could see Collins was not—he knew he was not on the surface of the Moon, so he would be sitting there reading something like\\n\\n Aviation Week\\n\\n while they were talking about all what they had done and this kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they get to see any of the news coverage of their actual flight once they were in quarantine and any of the reactions? I’m thinking particularly the pictures that we’ve all seen of people standing in Times Square [New York City, New York] and people just watching it in awe. Did they ever get to see any of that during quarantine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure that they did during quarantine. They probably did afterwards. They went on this world tour. In fact, I guess Julian Scheer is the guy who led them on that, that was quite an interesting thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also mentioned that you went on the geology field trips."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:580", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.905604455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they had debriefings, and I did sit in on some of their debriefings to listen to those, and that was kind of a fascinating thing to do. But it was also fascinating because you could see Collins was not—he knew he was not on the surface of the Moon, so he would be sitting there reading something like\\n\\n Aviation Week\\n\\n while they were talking about all what they had done and this kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they get to see any of the news coverage of their actual flight once they were in quarantine and any of the reactions? I’m thinking particularly the pictures that we’ve all seen of people standing in Times Square [New York City, New York] and people just watching it in awe. Did they ever get to see any of that during quarantine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure that they did during quarantine. They probably did afterwards. They went on this world tour. In fact, I guess Julian Scheer is the guy who led them on that, that was quite an interesting thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also mentioned that you went on the geology field trips."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go on more than one?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:582", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.78400495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure that they did during quarantine. They probably did afterwards. They went on this world tour. In fact, I guess Julian Scheer is the guy who led them on that, that was quite an interesting thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also mentioned that you went on the geology field trips."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go on more than one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went on, it seems to me, two or three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your duties while you were on those trips?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:584", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.7600055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go on more than one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went on, it seems to me, two or three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your duties while you were on those trips?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To deal with the press."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the press that would be there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:586", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.288895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went on, it seems to me, two or three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your duties while you were on those trips?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To deal with the press."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the press that would be there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, those were all on the Big Island. You started in Honolulu [Hawaii], okay, and I guess that became such a good deal because the Hawaiian Village Hotel took us in and really gave you first-class royal treatment. I recall one of them—who was it? Aldrin was there, and he had some good-looking chick with him, not his wife, obviously, since she was back in Houston or wherever, but they were introducing them and that kind of got to him, and you could see that he was trying to not show up too good. But the shows were really quite good. That’s when Hilo Hattie—know the name? Well, she was a big entertainer in that era. Because this was—when—the middle sixties. Yes.\\n\\n No, that’s mainly what you did. You dealt with the press that was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sounds like never a day went by that you weren’t doing something different from the day before."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:588", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.87655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To deal with the press."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the press that would be there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, those were all on the Big Island. You started in Honolulu [Hawaii], okay, and I guess that became such a good deal because the Hawaiian Village Hotel took us in and really gave you first-class royal treatment. I recall one of them—who was it? Aldrin was there, and he had some good-looking chick with him, not his wife, obviously, since she was back in Houston or wherever, but they were introducing them and that kind of got to him, and you could see that he was trying to not show up too good. But the shows were really quite good. That’s when Hilo Hattie—know the name? Well, she was a big entertainer in that era. Because this was—when—the middle sixties. Yes.\\n\\n No, that’s mainly what you did. You dealt with the press that was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sounds like never a day went by that you weren’t doing something different from the day before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was an interesting time in my life, I’d have to say that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One thing that I didn’t ask you about that is kind of the obvious, but maybe not the most interesting, was all the paperwork that you had to do. Was there a lot of procedural writing and structuring and that type of work where you were at your desk doing administrative work or was your role such that that wasn’t a big part of it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:590", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.5295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, those were all on the Big Island. You started in Honolulu [Hawaii], okay, and I guess that became such a good deal because the Hawaiian Village Hotel took us in and really gave you first-class royal treatment. I recall one of them—who was it? Aldrin was there, and he had some good-looking chick with him, not his wife, obviously, since she was back in Houston or wherever, but they were introducing them and that kind of got to him, and you could see that he was trying to not show up too good. But the shows were really quite good. That’s when Hilo Hattie—know the name? Well, she was a big entertainer in that era. Because this was—when—the middle sixties. Yes.\\n\\n No, that’s mainly what you did. You dealt with the press that was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sounds like never a day went by that you weren’t doing something different from the day before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was an interesting time in my life, I’d have to say that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One thing that I didn’t ask you about that is kind of the obvious, but maybe not the most interesting, was all the paperwork that you had to do. Was there a lot of procedural writing and structuring and that type of work where you were at your desk doing administrative work or was your role such that that wasn’t a big part of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was a part. For example, I did write the ground rules for the pool operation that we later went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were those received by the press?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:592", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was an interesting time in my life, I’d have to say that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One thing that I didn’t ask you about that is kind of the obvious, but maybe not the most interesting, was all the paperwork that you had to do. Was there a lot of procedural writing and structuring and that type of work where you were at your desk doing administrative work or was your role such that that wasn’t a big part of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was a part. For example, I did write the ground rules for the pool operation that we later went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were those received by the press?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tended to like it. I mean, they liked the fact they were inside, and I guess it worked out pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your staff, did they travel quite a bit throughout the missions or were they pretty much housed at the—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:594", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.95, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was a part. For example, I did write the ground rules for the pool operation that we later went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were those received by the press?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tended to like it. I mean, they liked the fact they were inside, and I guess it worked out pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your staff, did they travel quite a bit throughout the missions or were they pretty much housed at the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it depended on which mission. Jack Riley, for example, spent a lot of time in Moscow [Russia] before the joint Apollo-Soyuz mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you end up traveling quite a bit other than those ones that you mentioned, or were you pretty much at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] or at Houston?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:596", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tended to like it. I mean, they liked the fact they were inside, and I guess it worked out pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your staff, did they travel quite a bit throughout the missions or were they pretty much housed at the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it depended on which mission. Jack Riley, for example, spent a lot of time in Moscow [Russia] before the joint Apollo-Soyuz mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you end up traveling quite a bit other than those ones that you mentioned, or were you pretty much at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] or at Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was mainly at the Cape or Houston. When we used Jack mainly, he became our Soviet or Russian expert, and he dealt with some young guy over there that is probably an old guy now, named Dennis Shinko [phonetic], who may no longer be in power or doing anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any interactions with the Russians that came here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:598", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it depended on which mission. Jack Riley, for example, spent a lot of time in Moscow [Russia] before the joint Apollo-Soyuz mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you end up traveling quite a bit other than those ones that you mentioned, or were you pretty much at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] or at Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was mainly at the Cape or Houston. When we used Jack mainly, he became our Soviet or Russian expert, and he dealt with some young guy over there that is probably an old guy now, named Dennis Shinko [phonetic], who may no longer be in power or doing anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any interactions with the Russians that came here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I did. In fact, I think in the TV room in there I’ve got a thing of our joint—well, it’s the thing we used in the newsroom. It was kind of part in Russian and part in U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’ll have to take a look at that and see that. What an interesting time especially since you had served in the Air Force during those cold war days and now that you were working with the Russians in the space agency, it’s quite a change of time in just twenty years."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:600", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was mainly at the Cape or Houston. When we used Jack mainly, he became our Soviet or Russian expert, and he dealt with some young guy over there that is probably an old guy now, named Dennis Shinko [phonetic], who may no longer be in power or doing anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any interactions with the Russians that came here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I did. In fact, I think in the TV room in there I’ve got a thing of our joint—well, it’s the thing we used in the newsroom. It was kind of part in Russian and part in U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’ll have to take a look at that and see that. What an interesting time especially since you had served in the Air Force during those cold war days and now that you were working with the Russians in the space agency, it’s quite a change of time in just twenty years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, it was quite a change. Yes, it was. In fact, in the Air Force I was stationed in Taiwan, I think I’d mentioned to you. That’s when the Chinese Communists were shelling Quemoy, and that was an interesting time, too, because they had this plan where they did it only on odd days or something. That was back in the early or late fifties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it seems like you have had quite an interesting life and met a tremendous amount of different people."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:602", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I did. In fact, I think in the TV room in there I’ve got a thing of our joint—well, it’s the thing we used in the newsroom. It was kind of part in Russian and part in U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’ll have to take a look at that and see that. What an interesting time especially since you had served in the Air Force during those cold war days and now that you were working with the Russians in the space agency, it’s quite a change of time in just twenty years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, it was quite a change. Yes, it was. In fact, in the Air Force I was stationed in Taiwan, I think I’d mentioned to you. That’s when the Chinese Communists were shelling Quemoy, and that was an interesting time, too, because they had this plan where they did it only on odd days or something. That was back in the early or late fifties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it seems like you have had quite an interesting life and met a tremendous amount of different people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. I have enjoyed a lot of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we certainly have enjoyed the time with you this afternoon."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00402:604", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, it was quite a change. Yes, it was. In fact, in the Air Force I was stationed in Taiwan, I think I’d mentioned to you. That’s when the Chinese Communists were shelling Quemoy, and that was an interesting time, too, because they had this plan where they did it only on odd days or something. That was back in the early or late fifties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it seems like you have had quite an interesting life and met a tremendous amount of different people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. I have enjoyed a lot of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we certainly have enjoyed the time with you this afternoon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have learned a lot. Again, we thank you."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00433:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.55737302236925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Last time we talked through a good portion of your career, and we worked up to some of the most recent activities you were involved with. So I want to pick up today talking about some of your involvement with the Shuttle-Mir program and the beginnings of that agreement with Russia over there and building that connection between the two operations groups and how you would support the people over there, the U.S. citizens working in the control center in Russia, that sort of thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you could tell us a little bit about how that all worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at the time that we really entered into operations development for the Shuttle-Mir program, there were so many other things going on also in the directorate that we decided to focus most of that activity in our flight director's office, as I recall, arranging that. Of course, we stayed very much in touch with that, but some of our flight directors definitely had the lead in working the interface with the Moscow control center, how we would arrange all that. We very much stayed involved with all of the requirements that were being put in place and the protocols on who would do what and how we would reach agreement on operations matters during the mission and all of that. But it was very much focused in our flight control elements and in the flight director's office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to get involved at all more on a level where diplomatic concerns came into play?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00433:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 22.766915138499087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they're still doing that today. I mean, that's how they're having to work things out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved at all in setting up the agreements as to how the operations would be managed for the Space Station when that came into play?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Again, in terms of having a mission operations and NASA human space flight operations' outlook and philosophy incorporated in those agreements. But there again, we had people who were traveling a great deal to Russia and working the details of that, and of course we were working with the program, too, to provide our ideas. Most of the dealing were in working groups and committees set up by the programs, where yes, MOD did chair some of that activity, but most of it was chaired by the program and we played our role in trying to reach agreement on operations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly some interesting things that were going on during that time frame."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, around this time, too, and as these agreements were all being worked out, you became involved with the Operation Streamlining team which transitioned into the base operations office. This appeared to be a NASA-wide-type organization to begin with."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00433:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.785678230789824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there also just hesitation in general about such a different way of doing things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, and I really want to be fair to the centers and the programs and the projects. It wasn't just that they totally wanted control for control's sake. NASA's programs are always evolving at a pace that, what you are sure are your requirements today as the program evolves, as you get results from the program, or as the development process goes forward, your requirements change. So that defeats some of the fixed price, \"We know exactly what we want, and we'll just contract for that.\" It defeats that particular approach, which is more common in, you know, the telecommunications industry. So these people were concerned about what process they'd have to go through, would the whole thing be flexible enough to support them?\\n\\n Indeed, one of the problems, if you want to term it that way, on that whole contracting arrangement is that there's been such growth in the requirements since the contract was originally let. At quick glance, if you look at the total amount of money required, it makes it look like, well, they weren't as efficient as they should be. You have to take into account what was added to the contract after it was originally put in place. So it's an interesting challenge, like most of the challenges in operations in NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then it's still a relatively young challenge that's been started, thinking of the age of the space program and all."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and we took advantage early on of a lot of things that came from the DOD. For what it's worth now, the DOD is looking very hard at the experience in SOMO and CSOC, the positives and the speed bumps that were encountered, because they are considering privatizing the ranges, the eastern test range and the western test range. So they're trying to learn from NASA's experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's good that they're able to build on that, and maybe it'll be of benefit to both agencies."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00433:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.342601207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there would be quite a facility expense related to that. I'm not sure what the recent planning is. Yes, from a historical sense one of the Apollo control rooms is still maintained much as it was. It's a national historic site. I mean, the displays and that aren't active in that anymore, but it's still there.\\n\\n One of the things that makes it rather expensive to provide access to any of these facilities is the access that you have to provide for people who have physical problems. It's very difficult to figure out how you can bring people in and take care of getting them to upper floors by some elevator path that doesn't now exist that won't interfere with everyday business. That's the big thing about all the tour activity, it cannot interfere with day-to-day training or operations activities.\\n\\n That's also the great thing about the tour. They're actually watching real things going on, but in order to allow the public to do that and not interfere with or distract people who are carrying out those activities is a challenge. That put a little bit of a limit on what you could do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I certainly understand. They are doing an important job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But that's one of, I think, the really great things about Space Center Houston. There is no venue or mock-up or anything on any level that's not completely accessible, and I think that's wonderful. It's not only required, but I think that's a very, very good requirement. You really want to open it up so that everybody can see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. They always seem like they're having fun whenever I'm over there. You can see the kids having a great time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You eventually did move on and retire from NASA."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00433:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 22.60289023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But that's one of, I think, the really great things about Space Center Houston. There is no venue or mock-up or anything on any level that's not completely accessible, and I think that's wonderful. It's not only required, but I think that's a very, very good requirement. You really want to open it up so that everybody can see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. They always seem like they're having fun whenever I'm over there. You can see the kids having a great time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You eventually did move on and retire from NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've moved into consulting. You work with USRA [Universities Space Research Association] and I believe you're in USA [United Space Alliance] to some extent. Can you mention anything about some of your reasons for moving on? Was it just time to move into a new area for you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00433:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.3365447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You eventually did move on and retire from NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've moved into consulting. You work with USRA [Universities Space Research Association] and I believe you're in USA [United Space Alliance] to some extent. Can you mention anything about some of your reasons for moving on? Was it just time to move into a new area for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a whole lot of it had to do with the Space Operations Management Office and the impending CSOC, or Consolidated Space Operations Contract. I was already sixty-seven, nearly sixty-eight, years old when I retired, and I really felt that the people who would manage and operate the CSOC contract and SOMO, in the long haul, needed to be the ones in place when the RFP [request for proposal] was finally issued and when the Source Evaluation Board was really going through their activity.\\n\\n I was there through the issuance of the RFP for the Phase A studies, and I stayed through the completion of that, but when you are going to go for the long-haul contract, it really seemed to me that I needed to move on and turn it over to the people who would really operate and manage the contract for the long haul. So that was a big part of my decision.\\n\\n And age-wise, it seemed like the right time, although I only stayed really retired for about six months and found out I wasn't as ready to—mainly not interact with the people. I missed the people. I missed being involved in what was going on. I know I've repeated this to a lot of people, but I do have to say it's nice to not be any longer responsible for the budget or those budget cuts or for the personnel matters. But I just couldn't get away from wanting to be involved on the program. So if there's an area where I really think I can contribute and the company thinks I can contribute, yes, I work at it. I try to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us a little bit about what you've been involved with at USRA? Since that's dealing with students, it must be a slightly different area for you."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00433:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 20.326999999999998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They have a much broader base than a lot of people would think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Hopefully, that's all working out well for you, in that you're able to work when you want to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. I end up with the inevitable conflicts of different companies that I'm working with having important meetings at the same time, like working for NASA when you were always having trouble keeping your time and schedule together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think sometimes it's hard to avoid in any job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career with NASA, it took a lot of different people to make everything happen, make it all come together for the various programs. Are there any individuals that had a significant impact on you personally or that you think were had a vital contribution to the program that you'd like to mention?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00433:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Just how great it's been, the years working with NASA. I never could have imagined as we're driving into Houston coming here from Albuquerque [New Mexico], how things would unfold and how really interesting it would be and what great people I would work with. It's still so good to see them, and it's still a pleasure to look back on what we've accomplished over the years. So it's been a great run."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good, and it's very fortunate that you are able to say that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I really feel that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we appreciate you sharing those experiences and that great run with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's certainly been very interesting."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00867:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 77.569390646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s interesting. During the space program I was often in Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s changed, hasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "More times than I would like, and [Apollo] 11 was the prime example. When Henry and I were in that auditorium and when 11 landed, and we walked out, it must have been about 1:30 in the morning, maybe 2:00, and it was like a big gorilla had jumped on our shoulders. It was unbelievable. Richard Underwood, I was talking to him and a couple of other people. I said, “Now are you Navy?”\\n\\n “Yes, I’m Navy, going way way back.”\\n\\n I said, “What did you do for air-conditioning?”\\n\\n He said, “You get up in the morning at 7:00, or maybe 6:00, and you have breakfast and you start to work at 7:00 and you work till 11:00. Then you go home and try to relax for three hours. Then you go back to work, work till 7:00 at night. That’s the only way you can exist.” You stop to think, like this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it’s a different environment. Usually if you come there’s a few times a year where the weather is really nice and it’s nice to be here. But the majority of the time it’s either hot and humid or cold and humid. We have those nice days every once in a while, but it doesn’t last unfortunately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s overcast now too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yesterday was lovely and then today is all overcast."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00867:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 35, "return_to_go": 85.8881366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s overcast now too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yesterday was lovely and then today is all overcast."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was nice. We have overcast skies where we are in San Diego because in the summertime you got the marine layer comes in. People are living close to the ocean, they may not see the Sun for a whole week. A lot of times. My wife and I live inland by 15 miles or so. But we have direct view of the ocean. Every now and then we get a call from people in Point Loma that we know. “Hey, what’s for dinner tonight? We haven’t seen the Sun for a week!” But you take it into account. Of course San Francisco, I grew up there next to the city. What did Mark Twain say? “That was the coldest summer he ever spent”."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. In Texas they always say, “If you don’t like Texas weather just wait a minute.” Because it’ll change for sure.\\n\\n I just had a couple more questions and then Jennifer said she’s thought of some things. We could probably talk a lot longer on Surveyor and those images, but I know a lot of it is documented. We’re always interested in the human side of it, your experiences, and that sort of thing. I know you worked through the Apollo Program, and then you left and went on to something else. You started your own business."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you decide to leave working with NASA or through JPL?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.976555639840466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So welcome. So I'll ask my usual first question. Why did you join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was working in Chicago for the Encyclopedia Britannica and I was on their management team and one of my jobs was to arrange the retirement dinners for people who were put in their 30 and 40 years. We always gave them a gold watch as a going away present, and it dawned on me that just as their time was running out, that we were giving them a watch. This is where I could be in 30 years. And so there's got to be something else out there. And it was thankfully. There was the Peace Corps, so that's why I joined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you know about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in the 1960 campaign I voted for, my vote went to Nixon. But then when Kennedy spoke."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were inspired?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.640617377600517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was working in Chicago for the Encyclopedia Britannica and I was on their management team and one of my jobs was to arrange the retirement dinners for people who were put in their 30 and 40 years. We always gave them a gold watch as a going away present, and it dawned on me that just as their time was running out, that we were giving them a watch. This is where I could be in 30 years. And so there's got to be something else out there. And it was thankfully. There was the Peace Corps, so that's why I joined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you know about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in the 1960 campaign I voted for, my vote went to Nixon. But then when Kennedy spoke."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were inspired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where my heart went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, good. So you applied for Peace Corps? And did you have to wait a long time to get in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.934019308445018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in the 1960 campaign I voted for, my vote went to Nixon. But then when Kennedy spoke."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were inspired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where my heart went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, good. So you applied for Peace Corps? And did you have to wait a long time to get in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually, it was very quick. I got a call one night at dinner. I lived in Chicago and I got a call from. It was my sister answered the phone and said it was the White House calling. And so I went to the phone and person identified herself as a recruiter for Peace Corps. She was recruiting for Ethiopia, and I didn't know at the time, but that was Harris Wofford's first program. And so I said, well, how many people will be in the program? She said, oh there'll be 300. And I said, well, thank you, but I'm not interested in being with a group of 300. So she said, would you be interested in other programs? I said, yeah. So they called other times, but not from the White House. Other invitations. And on the seventh one, it was Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They called you seven times?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.37113256493891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where my heart went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, good. So you applied for Peace Corps? And did you have to wait a long time to get in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually, it was very quick. I got a call one night at dinner. I lived in Chicago and I got a call from. It was my sister answered the phone and said it was the White House calling. And so I went to the phone and person identified herself as a recruiter for Peace Corps. She was recruiting for Ethiopia, and I didn't know at the time, but that was Harris Wofford's first program. And so I said, well, how many people will be in the program? She said, oh there'll be 300. And I said, well, thank you, but I'm not interested in being with a group of 300. So she said, would you be interested in other programs? I said, yeah. So they called other times, but not from the White House. Other invitations. And on the seventh one, it was Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They called you seven times?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Six times and then the seventh one was Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess they really wanted you, huh?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.967925072154344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually, it was very quick. I got a call one night at dinner. I lived in Chicago and I got a call from. It was my sister answered the phone and said it was the White House calling. And so I went to the phone and person identified herself as a recruiter for Peace Corps. She was recruiting for Ethiopia, and I didn't know at the time, but that was Harris Wofford's first program. And so I said, well, how many people will be in the program? She said, oh there'll be 300. And I said, well, thank you, but I'm not interested in being with a group of 300. So she said, would you be interested in other programs? I said, yeah. So they called other times, but not from the White House. Other invitations. And on the seventh one, it was Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They called you seven times?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Six times and then the seventh one was Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess they really wanted you, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were, you know, they had a very active recruitment effort. And when I said how many people in the program and they said it's an all-male program, very small, only 23. I said, that's mine. I like small like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.74213896906038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Six times and then the seventh one was Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess they really wanted you, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were, you know, they had a very active recruitment effort. And when I said how many people in the program and they said it's an all-male program, very small, only 23. I said, that's mine. I like small like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty nine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were 29. So you were among the mature people."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 19.71348774340042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were, you know, they had a very active recruitment effort. And when I said how many people in the program and they said it's an all-male program, very small, only 23. I said, that's mine. I like small like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty nine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were 29. So you were among the mature people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was long in the tooth. I had done my military first before college and in the military. I was with a very small unit. I like small. In a big world, I like small."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, great. So you finally accepted Colombia. Where did you train?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.903875270444914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty nine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were 29. So you were among the mature people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was long in the tooth. I had done my military first before college and in the military. I was with a very small unit. I like small. In a big world, I like small."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, great. So you finally accepted Colombia. Where did you train?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We assembled for five days of orientation in New York City. We then went to Puerto Rico for 30 days of Outward Bound training. And then we went to the University of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Wisconsin, Milwaukee. For three and a half months of academic training, and then back to Puerto Rico to actually work in an active cooperative for a month. So we'd have a feel of what it was like. So it was a fairly long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you like the Outward Bound part?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.226528078272127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was long in the tooth. I had done my military first before college and in the military. I was with a very small unit. I like small. In a big world, I like small."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, great. So you finally accepted Colombia. Where did you train?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We assembled for five days of orientation in New York City. We then went to Puerto Rico for 30 days of Outward Bound training. And then we went to the University of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Wisconsin, Milwaukee. For three and a half months of academic training, and then back to Puerto Rico to actually work in an active cooperative for a month. So we'd have a feel of what it was like. So it was a fairly long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you like the Outward Bound part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Loved it, loved it. And it was a, no one knew each other until we got into that swimming pool, so to speak. Or into those arduous hikes that they put you through, but 30 days really bonded you quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. And was the training in Milwaukee good?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.58503119808014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We assembled for five days of orientation in New York City. We then went to Puerto Rico for 30 days of Outward Bound training. And then we went to the University of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Wisconsin, Milwaukee. For three and a half months of academic training, and then back to Puerto Rico to actually work in an active cooperative for a month. So we'd have a feel of what it was like. So it was a fairly long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you like the Outward Bound part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Loved it, loved it. And it was a, no one knew each other until we got into that swimming pool, so to speak. Or into those arduous hikes that they put you through, but 30 days really bonded you quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. And was the training in Milwaukee good?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very good, very good. Language training, very good. Academic training and economics, very good. And the history of cooperatives and what cooperatives, you know, the many different forms of cooperatives. So it gave us a good background for what we were to do in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you did, I guess, practice cooperative work in Puerto Rico."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.094479108977932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Loved it, loved it. And it was a, no one knew each other until we got into that swimming pool, so to speak. Or into those arduous hikes that they put you through, but 30 days really bonded you quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. And was the training in Milwaukee good?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very good, very good. Language training, very good. Academic training and economics, very good. And the history of cooperatives and what cooperatives, you know, the many different forms of cooperatives. So it gave us a good background for what we were to do in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you did, I guess, practice cooperative work in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of a cooperative was that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.549421232197702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very good, very good. Language training, very good. Academic training and economics, very good. And the history of cooperatives and what cooperatives, you know, the many different forms of cooperatives. So it gave us a good background for what we were to do in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you did, I guess, practice cooperative work in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of a cooperative was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an agricultural cooperative, everything from coffee to beans and corn, but it gave you a feel for how to manage a business. Basically, it was a management sort of a management course. So when we got to Colombia, we had I think it was five days of orientation in Bogota and then we split up. And on the day we were to go out to our sites, the Peace Corps director came in to talk to us and said, well, now you're ready to go and we'll see you in six months. For a reunion sort of a meeting. So we had figured that we had six months to do something or show that we could do something. And I was posted to to a very small village, three thousand people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name of the village?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.610468035775224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of a cooperative was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an agricultural cooperative, everything from coffee to beans and corn, but it gave you a feel for how to manage a business. Basically, it was a management sort of a management course. So when we got to Colombia, we had I think it was five days of orientation in Bogota and then we split up. And on the day we were to go out to our sites, the Peace Corps director came in to talk to us and said, well, now you're ready to go and we'll see you in six months. For a reunion sort of a meeting. So we had figured that we had six months to do something or show that we could do something. And I was posted to to a very small village, three thousand people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name of the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's called La Plata, in the Department of Huila, which had just gone through the long civil war in Colombia. Most of it was pacified. But all the other guys in our group went to big cities like Cali and Cartagena and Medellin. I couldn't figure out why this small town, 3,000 people, you know, sent me to. And when I got there, I couldn't find anyone that had requested a volunteer or knew anything about why one should be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they know you were coming?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.067857387894684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two volunteers there already from a previous group, but they were working in community development. But they said they didn't request anyone, so they didn't know what that was all about. So I worked with them in community development projects for the first three or four months, and then they went home. Fortunately, in working with them, people would say, well, this is what, so this is what you mean by community development. But tell us about cooperatives, what are they? That kind of thing. That's why I started giving, you know, classes, orientation sessions on the structure of cooperatives.\n\nAnd then one day in a very remote village, not where I lived in La Plata, but in a remote village called the El Congreso, which took me hours to get up in foot, slogging on a trail up in the rainforest. These people had been displaced during the civil wars in Colombia, and they wanted to get as far away from the government as they could, so were up in the rainforest. They made their living cutting wood, making cheese, things like that. And I went up. I just liked the people up there and I gave orientation sessions on cooperatives and one day they said, let's do it. And 50 years later, one of my partners returned, and it's still operating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of a co-op was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Marketing cooperative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Marketing what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Marketing timber and lumber that they cut. They all individually, before I worked with them, they all individually took their lumber out to the road head, took it down to the nearest city, and made deals with middlemen. But now we could put it all into one package and get a better price and negotiate for a better price on the lumber. And then the first thing we did was a company store, rice and coffee and sugar and salt, and things like that. Started off with four or five items and pretty soon we had 25, 30, 50 items."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To buy cooperatively?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.404762207277386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Marketing timber and lumber that they cut. They all individually, before I worked with them, they all individually took their lumber out to the road head, took it down to the nearest city, and made deals with middlemen. But now we could put it all into one package and get a better price and negotiate for a better price on the lumber. And then the first thing we did was a company store, rice and coffee and sugar and salt, and things like that. Started off with four or five items and pretty soon we had 25, 30, 50 items."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To buy cooperatively?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it became a cooperative store, which the women liked a lot, because they didn't have to then go into the nearest town, which was always very difficult. But to have it still operating after 50 years was quite."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then, we built a physical building for the cooperative where they could mill the wood instead of doing it individually, do it by power saw. Make cheese, which they started to do, process cheese. And what we had. About six months after I was there, two other volunteers came to my site and they were community development volunteers. And they were under CARE, supervision of CARE contractor. So they had access to food from CARE, surplus food. So we brought that into El Congreso and we would, we would say with the cooperative board, one gallon of cooking oil for six broad feet of lumber. So we traded food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, nobody had. Did they not have money or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.894180230308207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it became a cooperative store, which the women liked a lot, because they didn't have to then go into the nearest town, which was always very difficult. But to have it still operating after 50 years was quite."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then, we built a physical building for the cooperative where they could mill the wood instead of doing it individually, do it by power saw. Make cheese, which they started to do, process cheese. And what we had. About six months after I was there, two other volunteers came to my site and they were community development volunteers. And they were under CARE, supervision of CARE contractor. So they had access to food from CARE, surplus food. So we brought that into El Congreso and we would, we would say with the cooperative board, one gallon of cooking oil for six broad feet of lumber. So we traded food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, nobody had. Did they not have money or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Money was pretty scarce, but food was, you know, the CARE food had huge value to it. Cooking oil is very expensive. Flour was expensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because it had to be shipped in, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.437978033675785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then, we built a physical building for the cooperative where they could mill the wood instead of doing it individually, do it by power saw. Make cheese, which they started to do, process cheese. And what we had. About six months after I was there, two other volunteers came to my site and they were community development volunteers. And they were under CARE, supervision of CARE contractor. So they had access to food from CARE, surplus food. So we brought that into El Congreso and we would, we would say with the cooperative board, one gallon of cooking oil for six broad feet of lumber. So we traded food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, nobody had. Did they not have money or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Money was pretty scarce, but food was, you know, the CARE food had huge value to it. Cooking oil is very expensive. Flour was expensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because it had to be shipped in, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but here they could. They're cutting wood anyway, so why not trade the wood for food?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then what did you do with the wood?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.042197815195316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Money was pretty scarce, but food was, you know, the CARE food had huge value to it. Cooking oil is very expensive. Flour was expensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because it had to be shipped in, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but here they could. They're cutting wood anyway, so why not trade the wood for food?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then what did you do with the wood?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Built the building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, built the building. And what was your role in all of this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.348392364438662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Built the building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, built the building. And what was your role in all of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, you know, after they formed their own junta, I was just an advisor and I'd take the money to the bank back in La Plata. Do arrangements for shipping in more food so they could trade it for wood until the building was up and running."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then, I didn't realize that since it probably was the most inaccessible geographic area because it was up in the rainforest, that once I got that cooperative started, people would come to see me in La Plata and say, why are you going all the way up there? Come to our town and we'll have a horse for you and all those kinds of things. So one cooperative soon expanded to five in different parts of Huila."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were they, was this a totally new concept to them, cooperatives? They had never really heard of doing working together like that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.831547071598513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, you know, after they formed their own junta, I was just an advisor and I'd take the money to the bank back in La Plata. Do arrangements for shipping in more food so they could trade it for wood until the building was up and running."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then, I didn't realize that since it probably was the most inaccessible geographic area because it was up in the rainforest, that once I got that cooperative started, people would come to see me in La Plata and say, why are you going all the way up there? Come to our town and we'll have a horse for you and all those kinds of things. So one cooperative soon expanded to five in different parts of Huila."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were they, was this a totally new concept to them, cooperatives? They had never really heard of doing working together like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had heard of them from prior to World War II. Some Germans were out there, but not in the village where I worked, but in Huila itself. But the Germans formed the co-operative to the point where they could then take all the money and disappear. So it had a bad reputation. The concept had a bad reputation. And that's what the Germans did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So explain to me what the difference is between your job working on cooperatives, I guess it's more specific then community development. Where do those come together?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.368385635109459, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then, I didn't realize that since it probably was the most inaccessible geographic area because it was up in the rainforest, that once I got that cooperative started, people would come to see me in La Plata and say, why are you going all the way up there? Come to our town and we'll have a horse for you and all those kinds of things. So one cooperative soon expanded to five in different parts of Huila."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were they, was this a totally new concept to them, cooperatives? They had never really heard of doing working together like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had heard of them from prior to World War II. Some Germans were out there, but not in the village where I worked, but in Huila itself. But the Germans formed the co-operative to the point where they could then take all the money and disappear. So it had a bad reputation. The concept had a bad reputation. And that's what the Germans did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So explain to me what the difference is between your job working on cooperatives, I guess it's more specific then community development. Where do those come together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, community development would be like doing schools, doing farm to market roads, doing bridges, small bridges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's infrastructure development."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.964872927899399, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had heard of them from prior to World War II. Some Germans were out there, but not in the village where I worked, but in Huila itself. But the Germans formed the co-operative to the point where they could then take all the money and disappear. So it had a bad reputation. The concept had a bad reputation. And that's what the Germans did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So explain to me what the difference is between your job working on cooperatives, I guess it's more specific then community development. Where do those come together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, community development would be like doing schools, doing farm to market roads, doing bridges, small bridges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's infrastructure development."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Infrastructure, yeah. And we did, with the other two volunteers. They were very, two very unusual people because they didn't care if they were working on my project or I was working on their project. It was all safe. And so we managed to do schools, a couple of schools. They did a very nice bridge project. One of the guys was a civil engineer, so, he knows construction, knew how to use cable and make a bridge out of their cable and whatnot. And we did, in the town where we lived, then we did a credit cooperative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the credit cooperative, I mean, that's a whole banking system, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.627636586554887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, community development would be like doing schools, doing farm to market roads, doing bridges, small bridges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's infrastructure development."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Infrastructure, yeah. And we did, with the other two volunteers. They were very, two very unusual people because they didn't care if they were working on my project or I was working on their project. It was all safe. And so we managed to do schools, a couple of schools. They did a very nice bridge project. One of the guys was a civil engineer, so, he knows construction, knew how to use cable and make a bridge out of their cable and whatnot. And we did, in the town where we lived, then we did a credit cooperative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the credit cooperative, I mean, that's a whole banking system, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's banking, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew you knew how to operate that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.071156279697392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's banking, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew you knew how to operate that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was part of the training we had. So I knew, you know, the debits and credits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "101."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was one step ahead of them, perhaps. But I was, I guess I was enough part of the village to know that if we did the credit co- operative and had it based at the church, when they came in on Sunday for marketing and to pay up their dues, they weren't treating the cooperative, they were treating the padre if they weren't paying up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you linked the two together, very clever. So you stayed in, where did you live, in La Plata or did you move?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.85684031077488, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was part of the training we had. So I knew, you know, the debits and credits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "101."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was one step ahead of them, perhaps. But I was, I guess I was enough part of the village to know that if we did the credit co- operative and had it based at the church, when they came in on Sunday for marketing and to pay up their dues, they weren't treating the cooperative, they were treating the padre if they weren't paying up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you linked the two together, very clever. So you stayed in, where did you live, in La Plata or did you move?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lived in La Plata."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole time and then you went up to El Congreso?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.396489234194311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was one step ahead of them, perhaps. But I was, I guess I was enough part of the village to know that if we did the credit co- operative and had it based at the church, when they came in on Sunday for marketing and to pay up their dues, they weren't treating the cooperative, they were treating the padre if they weren't paying up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you linked the two together, very clever. So you stayed in, where did you live, in La Plata or did you move?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lived in La Plata."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole time and then you went up to El Congreso?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That took a bus ride of about 50 minutes and then went through a road head. And then you had a slog in about, depending on the rain, three to five hours on foot to get into El Congreso."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how often did you go up there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.99609914910479, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lived in La Plata."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole time and then you went up to El Congreso?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That took a bus ride of about 50 minutes and then went through a road head. And then you had a slog in about, depending on the rain, three to five hours on foot to get into El Congreso."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how often did you go up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I never counted the times, but I was up there as."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like once a week or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5512212767830995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That took a bus ride of about 50 minutes and then went through a road head. And then you had a slog in about, depending on the rain, three to five hours on foot to get into El Congreso."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how often did you go up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I never counted the times, but I was up there as."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like once a week or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes twice. I'd stay up there sometimes, overnight. And it's also where I, as you know, the Peace Corps medical kit was a huge advantage, and I never knew the power of medicine until I had the kit, and I'd take part of it up into El Congreso. And usually with mothers who had splitting headaches and shivers and treat them. So that became sort of my entry to the village. You know, it wasn't just co- operatives, it was health care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any medical personnel around there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.168023640870111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I never counted the times, but I was up there as."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like once a week or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes twice. I'd stay up there sometimes, overnight. And it's also where I, as you know, the Peace Corps medical kit was a huge advantage, and I never knew the power of medicine until I had the kit, and I'd take part of it up into El Congreso. And usually with mothers who had splitting headaches and shivers and treat them. So that became sort of my entry to the village. You know, it wasn't just co- operatives, it was health care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any medical personnel around there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not even in La Plata?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.742248489855678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes twice. I'd stay up there sometimes, overnight. And it's also where I, as you know, the Peace Corps medical kit was a huge advantage, and I never knew the power of medicine until I had the kit, and I'd take part of it up into El Congreso. And usually with mothers who had splitting headaches and shivers and treat them. So that became sort of my entry to the village. You know, it wasn't just co- operatives, it was health care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any medical personnel around there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not even in La Plata?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had two doctors in La Plata, two medical doctors. One had been trained to when they were bleeding patients, he still was bleeding patients, a throwback to the Vienna School of Medicine. And then there was a young doctor who, unfortunately, was too much into the drink, but you wouldn't want to. As volunteers, we swore we would never."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go to him."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.380276099839642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not even in La Plata?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had two doctors in La Plata, two medical doctors. One had been trained to when they were bleeding patients, he still was bleeding patients, a throwback to the Vienna School of Medicine. And then there was a young doctor who, unfortunately, was too much into the drink, but you wouldn't want to. As volunteers, we swore we would never."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go to him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If we were injured, we would make sure we got to Bogota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what about your book, you talked about the medical kit, what about your book locker?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.517525514183321, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The book locker, as you remember, was we had, all three of us had a book locker. And fortunately, most of the books were separate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Different ones?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Each were different ones. And when new volunteers came or volunteers came to town, we were trade books back and forth because we had no TV and no radio. A telephone was at a, you had to go down to a central station even to use a telephone. And there was no, uh, there was intermittent electricity in the town. So at night, what to do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Read."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was a liberal education and those were good books, good works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you leave any of them behind left?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.82925310587561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Left them all behind, yeah. One of the things when the two new volunteers came and then the other ones left. Since we all had an allowance, you know, for food anyway, we decided to take our, uh, tried to contract with a family to do our meals and then pay the family. And we ended up, we picked the poorest family in town and she had 11 kids. Her husband was a day worker when he could get it. And we contracted with her to do our meals, and we agreed on a price. And so instead of doing it and some were buying food ourselves or doing it in what passed as a restaurant, we came with the family. And one of my partners married one of the, the youngest daughter. And when they returned, they went. He was from Chicago, and he returned to Chicago and became a professor at the University of Illinois, and she earned two master's degrees in teaching in Chicago school system. So the family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Benefited, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but they all reached back to help each other, which was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So out of that family of 11, one became a medical doctor, still practices. One became the vice mayor of Cali, second largest city in Colombia. She did the double master's in Chicago. And they have, the other kids are doing, teachers and whatnot, but they're all doing well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you picked the poorest family in town and they all did so well. Do you think it was the relationship with you guys, was it the money, or what was?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.699170117639566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but they all reached back to help each other, which was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So out of that family of 11, one became a medical doctor, still practices. One became the vice mayor of Cali, second largest city in Colombia. She did the double master's in Chicago. And they have, the other kids are doing, teachers and whatnot, but they're all doing well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you picked the poorest family in town and they all did so well. Do you think it was the relationship with you guys, was it the money, or what was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, money certainly helped because she had no money. But it was the association of being with them every time we were in town and every time any of the volunteers came by. Or any. We only had one staff visit in all the time I was there, from Bogota, and he came when I wasn't in town and he was very angry that I wasn't there. But he never sent any message that he was coming here, just expected me to be there. So I think it's just the association and being with them on a daily basis and being part of a family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was your Spanish really good at that point?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.443522352932851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So out of that family of 11, one became a medical doctor, still practices. One became the vice mayor of Cali, second largest city in Colombia. She did the double master's in Chicago. And they have, the other kids are doing, teachers and whatnot, but they're all doing well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you picked the poorest family in town and they all did so well. Do you think it was the relationship with you guys, was it the money, or what was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, money certainly helped because she had no money. But it was the association of being with them every time we were in town and every time any of the volunteers came by. Or any. We only had one staff visit in all the time I was there, from Bogota, and he came when I wasn't in town and he was very angry that I wasn't there. But he never sent any message that he was coming here, just expected me to be there. So I think it's just the association and being with them on a daily basis and being part of a family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was your Spanish really good at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Spanish was, I started off horribly and ended off even maybe worse, if that's possible. But I was always able to communicate with. I got my eggs in the morning the way I wanted them, when I traveled. The Spanish used in that part of the Colombia is not Colombian Spanish. When I went to Bogota, it was like a bag was lifted. I said, this is really easy to understand, these people. Where I lived, they cut off the end of words because they speak very, very quickly. It's bastardized language. But in Bogota, it's the king's Spanish. And I understood perfectly in Bogota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you spent two years in La Plata doing all of that. What did you? I guess teachers had summer breaks, but did you travel during your vacation time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.954965867818333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Spanish was, I started off horribly and ended off even maybe worse, if that's possible. But I was always able to communicate with. I got my eggs in the morning the way I wanted them, when I traveled. The Spanish used in that part of the Colombia is not Colombian Spanish. When I went to Bogota, it was like a bag was lifted. I said, this is really easy to understand, these people. Where I lived, they cut off the end of words because they speak very, very quickly. It's bastardized language. But in Bogota, it's the king's Spanish. And I understood perfectly in Bogota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you spent two years in La Plata doing all of that. What did you? I guess teachers had summer breaks, but did you travel during your vacation time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only once in the first six months, I went for five days to some island off the coast of Colombia in Cartagena, where we had our first conference. But I didn't, no, I didn't take a vacation. I worked straight through. And then I became a staff member."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doing what? This was after your service was completed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.838850964242592, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only once in the first six months, I went for five days to some island off the coast of Colombia in Cartagena, where we had our first conference. But I didn't, no, I didn't take a vacation. I worked straight through. And then I became a staff member."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doing what? This was after your service was completed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was, uh, the director of our program was, just as our program was ending, he was asked to leave. And so they asked me if I would stay on and be the director for the new group of co-op volunteers coming in. So I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did you stay there then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.709834404713991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doing what? This was after your service was completed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was, uh, the director of our program was, just as our program was ending, he was asked to leave. And so they asked me if I would stay on and be the director for the new group of co-op volunteers coming in. So I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did you stay there then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I stayed until they could find another director. I stayed as staff for eight months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how was it different being staff as being a volunteer, you get a different perspective on the issues, don't you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.566482671904433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was, uh, the director of our program was, just as our program was ending, he was asked to leave. And so they asked me if I would stay on and be the director for the new group of co-op volunteers coming in. So I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did you stay there then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I stayed until they could find another director. I stayed as staff for eight months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how was it different being staff as being a volunteer, you get a different perspective on the issues, don't you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And the new group that came in were 36 strong, so they were spread all around the country. And so I had a, you know, every day you're someplace else because, you know, trying to give support to them. So I got a chance to see Colombia from that perspective because I was going to be on the move and I had carte blanche on an airplane, paid, to move around quickly where I couldn't use a bus or a jeep. So that was that was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you enjoyed that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.518314079893814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I stayed until they could find another director. I stayed as staff for eight months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how was it different being staff as being a volunteer, you get a different perspective on the issues, don't you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And the new group that came in were 36 strong, so they were spread all around the country. And so I had a, you know, every day you're someplace else because, you know, trying to give support to them. So I got a chance to see Colombia from that perspective because I was going to be on the move and I had carte blanche on an airplane, paid, to move around quickly where I couldn't use a bus or a jeep. So that was that was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you enjoyed that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, I did enjoy it, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it sounds like you provided more support than you got."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.516437135671374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, I did enjoy it, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it sounds like you provided more support than you got."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, maybe I was lucky that I didn't get the kind of support because the director of our program was into birdwatching and he had never traveled abroad before. He'd just worked in co-ops in the U.S. and was very senior in the U.S. He was a good, a good man, but he. Things got beyond him where he couldn't be a contribution anymore, if you know what I mean. We knew more about this situation than he did, and he didn't seem to be that interested in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Co-ops?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "More birds, you know. Which was kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Peace Corps pulled him?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.684930150745972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, maybe I was lucky that I didn't get the kind of support because the director of our program was into birdwatching and he had never traveled abroad before. He'd just worked in co-ops in the U.S. and was very senior in the U.S. He was a good, a good man, but he. Things got beyond him where he couldn't be a contribution anymore, if you know what I mean. We knew more about this situation than he did, and he didn't seem to be that interested in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Co-ops?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "More birds, you know. Which was kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Peace Corps pulled him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps asked the contractor to pull him. And he wasn't helping us at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said the contractor. So the director was not a Peace Corps volunteer, Peace Corps staff person?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.872144611939968, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More birds, you know. Which was kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Peace Corps pulled him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps asked the contractor to pull him. And he wasn't helping us at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said the contractor. So the director was not a Peace Corps volunteer, Peace Corps staff person?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was. Colombia had contracts with different groups like CARE, and this was with the [Cooperative] League of the USA in Chicago, which was the manager that runs all the cooperatives here in the U.S., so they contract. He was not a considered a Peace Corps staff member, but a contractor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you worked for him as a volunteer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.191271791044409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps asked the contractor to pull him. And he wasn't helping us at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said the contractor. So the director was not a Peace Corps volunteer, Peace Corps staff person?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was. Colombia had contracts with different groups like CARE, and this was with the [Cooperative] League of the USA in Chicago, which was the manager that runs all the cooperatives here in the U.S., so they contract. He was not a considered a Peace Corps staff member, but a contractor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you worked for him as a volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I guess most of the people in that group resented that because it was an unusual group. Probably of the 23, maybe 18 or 19 had master's degrees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the volunteers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.65696865671601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was. Colombia had contracts with different groups like CARE, and this was with the [Cooperative] League of the USA in Chicago, which was the manager that runs all the cooperatives here in the U.S., so they contract. He was not a considered a Peace Corps staff member, but a contractor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you worked for him as a volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I guess most of the people in that group resented that because it was an unusual group. Probably of the 23, maybe 18 or 19 had master's degrees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of our group, yeah. Had been around a little bit, you know, they weren't just fresh out of college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, you were 29. That was pretty old."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.841076285240012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I guess most of the people in that group resented that because it was an unusual group. Probably of the 23, maybe 18 or 19 had master's degrees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of our group, yeah. Had been around a little bit, you know, they weren't just fresh out of college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, you were 29. That was pretty old."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh yeah, I was the oldest and the others were 26, 25. But they had, you know, graduate school behind them, work experience. One of my best friends was working at Ford Motor Company. Another guy was, he had a PhD in economics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really, huh. That's pretty unusual, though, because most volunteers were straight out of college."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.156751428044458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of our group, yeah. Had been around a little bit, you know, they weren't just fresh out of college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, you were 29. That was pretty old."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh yeah, I was the oldest and the others were 26, 25. But they had, you know, graduate school behind them, work experience. One of my best friends was working at Ford Motor Company. Another guy was, he had a PhD in economics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really, huh. That's pretty unusual, though, because most volunteers were straight out of college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that make a difference, do you think? That they had all of this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.618612697827176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh yeah, I was the oldest and the others were 26, 25. But they had, you know, graduate school behind them, work experience. One of my best friends was working at Ford Motor Company. Another guy was, he had a PhD in economics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really, huh. That's pretty unusual, though, because most volunteers were straight out of college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that make a difference, do you think? That they had all of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it did, in terms of our ability to absorb the culture quickly, to absorb know what a co-op is, and to try to communicate that where our boss couldn't do that and didn't seem to be that much interested in doing it. He enjoyed being in Medellin, which was a major city of Colombia with his family, he had a daughter and his wife. But it was mainly he was interested in the birds of Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, not a good match then. Did you become friends with any Colombians and maintain contact with them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.24290299758575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that make a difference, do you think? That they had all of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it did, in terms of our ability to absorb the culture quickly, to absorb know what a co-op is, and to try to communicate that where our boss couldn't do that and didn't seem to be that much interested in doing it. He enjoyed being in Medellin, which was a major city of Colombia with his family, he had a daughter and his wife. But it was mainly he was interested in the birds of Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, not a good match then. Did you become friends with any Colombians and maintain contact with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the family clearly that cooked meals for you."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.936558886206388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it did, in terms of our ability to absorb the culture quickly, to absorb know what a co-op is, and to try to communicate that where our boss couldn't do that and didn't seem to be that much interested in doing it. He enjoyed being in Medellin, which was a major city of Colombia with his family, he had a daughter and his wife. But it was mainly he was interested in the birds of Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, not a good match then. Did you become friends with any Colombians and maintain contact with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the family clearly that cooked meals for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, they come here to Chicago a lot. And we see, you know, their kids. One of them married a volunteer out of Central America recently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're still in contact?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.81839876245154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the family clearly that cooked meals for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, they come here to Chicago a lot. And we see, you know, their kids. One of them married a volunteer out of Central America recently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're still in contact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. That's good. And after Peace Corps, did you travel in South America or hop on a plane and come back? How did that work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.687109736057266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, they come here to Chicago a lot. And we see, you know, their kids. One of them married a volunteer out of Central America recently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're still in contact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. That's good. And after Peace Corps, did you travel in South America or hop on a plane and come back? How did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because I was moving on to a staff position, I had to go to Washington to be stamped, I guess, or to be certified by the Peace Corps staff in Washington. And when I was there, they said there's a person who wants to see you. She's an office director. She was running the Office of International Organizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.319010817841406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. That's good. And after Peace Corps, did you travel in South America or hop on a plane and come back? How did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because I was moving on to a staff position, I had to go to Washington to be stamped, I guess, or to be certified by the Peace Corps staff in Washington. And when I was there, they said there's a person who wants to see you. She's an office director. She was running the Office of International Organizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At Peace Corps, so I went to see her. Her name was Diana MacArthur, and she said she's about to take her first overseas trip. And, you know, I'm going to Colombia, would you be my escort officer in Colombia? So I said, yeah, sure, I'd love to show you Peace Corps Colombia. And when I got back to Bogota, the Peace Corps director called me in and said, he said, Jerry, I'm going to give you a chance to pull out of this. I said, why? He said, well, do you know who this woman is? I said, she's the Director for International Operations. He said, no, she's the niece of LBJ. She's mean, she'll burn your career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I mean, she had the reputation of being mean?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.687789797601562, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because I was moving on to a staff position, I had to go to Washington to be stamped, I guess, or to be certified by the Peace Corps staff in Washington. And when I was there, they said there's a person who wants to see you. She's an office director. She was running the Office of International Organizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At Peace Corps, so I went to see her. Her name was Diana MacArthur, and she said she's about to take her first overseas trip. And, you know, I'm going to Colombia, would you be my escort officer in Colombia? So I said, yeah, sure, I'd love to show you Peace Corps Colombia. And when I got back to Bogota, the Peace Corps director called me in and said, he said, Jerry, I'm going to give you a chance to pull out of this. I said, why? He said, well, do you know who this woman is? I said, she's the Director for International Operations. He said, no, she's the niece of LBJ. She's mean, she'll burn your career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I mean, she had the reputation of being mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And would ruin your career. So I said, no, I'll do it. So I did it. And on the last day, as I was taking her from the airport back into Bogota, we were out at a site visit, the car in front of us hit a dog and she was a real dog lover. Oh, she said, Jerry, stop the car, stop the car. We've got to help the dog. I said, no, no, you can't do that. That's someone's dinner tonight. They'll take care of it. So I thought that any chance I had of going to Washington was out the window. But I think it was about seven days after she returned home, she sent me a telegram saying that she just convinced Sarge to give her another staff position, and she offered it to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about that? And then you came to Washington?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.208655330668401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At Peace Corps, so I went to see her. Her name was Diana MacArthur, and she said she's about to take her first overseas trip. And, you know, I'm going to Colombia, would you be my escort officer in Colombia? So I said, yeah, sure, I'd love to show you Peace Corps Colombia. And when I got back to Bogota, the Peace Corps director called me in and said, he said, Jerry, I'm going to give you a chance to pull out of this. I said, why? He said, well, do you know who this woman is? I said, she's the Director for International Operations. He said, no, she's the niece of LBJ. She's mean, she'll burn your career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I mean, she had the reputation of being mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And would ruin your career. So I said, no, I'll do it. So I did it. And on the last day, as I was taking her from the airport back into Bogota, we were out at a site visit, the car in front of us hit a dog and she was a real dog lover. Oh, she said, Jerry, stop the car, stop the car. We've got to help the dog. I said, no, no, you can't do that. That's someone's dinner tonight. They'll take care of it. So I thought that any chance I had of going to Washington was out the window. But I think it was about seven days after she returned home, she sent me a telegram saying that she just convinced Sarge to give her another staff position, and she offered it to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about that? And then you came to Washington?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After I finished, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do at Peace Corps then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.89850592296489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And would ruin your career. So I said, no, I'll do it. So I did it. And on the last day, as I was taking her from the airport back into Bogota, we were out at a site visit, the car in front of us hit a dog and she was a real dog lover. Oh, she said, Jerry, stop the car, stop the car. We've got to help the dog. I said, no, no, you can't do that. That's someone's dinner tonight. They'll take care of it. So I thought that any chance I had of going to Washington was out the window. But I think it was about seven days after she returned home, she sent me a telegram saying that she just convinced Sarge to give her another staff position, and she offered it to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about that? And then you came to Washington?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After I finished, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do at Peace Corps then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a program officer on her staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For international organizations?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.77611769218321, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After I finished, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do at Peace Corps then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a program officer on her staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For international organizations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I learned a lot from her. She was a good, a good boss."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "See, so reputations aren't necessarily deserved."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.640130769092455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a program officer on her staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For international organizations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I learned a lot from her. She was a good, a good boss."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "See, so reputations aren't necessarily deserved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. She was good. In fact, when I, I was so surprised to get the offer. I didn't respond for seven days and one day at the office, she rang me up from Washington and I could just see her sitting at her desk, drumming her fingers. I am not used to being..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. So did you work internationally, I mean, across the world in that position?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.711256410102727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I learned a lot from her. She was a good, a good boss."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "See, so reputations aren't necessarily deserved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. She was good. In fact, when I, I was so surprised to get the offer. I didn't respond for seven days and one day at the office, she rang me up from Washington and I could just see her sitting at her desk, drumming her fingers. I am not used to being..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. So did you work internationally, I mean, across the world in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or did you get to travel to other places?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.79028490011414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. She was good. In fact, when I, I was so surprised to get the offer. I didn't respond for seven days and one day at the office, she rang me up from Washington and I could just see her sitting at her desk, drumming her fingers. I am not used to being..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. So did you work internationally, I mean, across the world in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or did you get to travel to other places?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, and then when she left, I went to other offices within Peace Corps, so that's where I met Margaret, in the Office of Public Affairs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And how long were you at Peace Corps then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.98920544457127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or did you get to travel to other places?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, and then when she left, I went to other offices within Peace Corps, so that's where I met Margaret, in the Office of Public Affairs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And how long were you at Peace Corps then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after Peace Corps, what happened then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.765783827301412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, and then when she left, I went to other offices within Peace Corps, so that's where I met Margaret, in the Office of Public Affairs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And how long were you at Peace Corps then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after Peace Corps, what happened then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After Peace Corps, I was offered a job with the newly formed International Peace Academy in New York City, as their director of administration. So we went to Vienna, Austria, for the first training program of the academy. And it was headed up by a guy who was the peacekeeper, he was in charge of peacekeeping at the U.N. An Indian major general. And he became the first director of the academy. Very good contacts all around the world. So we did that for a year. And then we lived in New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were the academy was to train peacekeepers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.51753758589046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after Peace Corps, what happened then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After Peace Corps, I was offered a job with the newly formed International Peace Academy in New York City, as their director of administration. So we went to Vienna, Austria, for the first training program of the academy. And it was headed up by a guy who was the peacekeeper, he was in charge of peacekeeping at the U.N. An Indian major general. And he became the first director of the academy. Very good contacts all around the world. So we did that for a year. And then we lived in New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were the academy was to train peacekeepers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was to train people in the arts of mediation and negotiation. So in our first training program in Vienna, we had young journalists from all around the world that could conditions. And he could do first-hand experience from his peacekeeping in the Congo and Indonesia, places like that around the world. But both Margaret and I missed desperately missed Washington. And so we came back to Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've stayed involved in international issues throughout."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.019486206544956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After Peace Corps, I was offered a job with the newly formed International Peace Academy in New York City, as their director of administration. So we went to Vienna, Austria, for the first training program of the academy. And it was headed up by a guy who was the peacekeeper, he was in charge of peacekeeping at the U.N. An Indian major general. And he became the first director of the academy. Very good contacts all around the world. So we did that for a year. And then we lived in New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were the academy was to train peacekeepers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was to train people in the arts of mediation and negotiation. So in our first training program in Vienna, we had young journalists from all around the world that could conditions. And he could do first-hand experience from his peacekeeping in the Congo and Indonesia, places like that around the world. But both Margaret and I missed desperately missed Washington. And so we came back to Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've stayed involved in international issues throughout."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we came in during Nixon's term, when anything doing with the Peace Corps was not very employable. And one of Margaret's site partners, Joe Kelly, was with a brand-new company that just got a huge contract from Health and Human Services, and they needed an evaluator. So Joe rang me up and asked me to come over and to interview, and I said, well, Joe, I don't know anything about health. And he said, but you do know the importance of a verb in every sentence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's how you got that job."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 16.688318007272173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was to train people in the arts of mediation and negotiation. So in our first training program in Vienna, we had young journalists from all around the world that could conditions. And he could do first-hand experience from his peacekeeping in the Congo and Indonesia, places like that around the world. But both Margaret and I missed desperately missed Washington. And so we came back to Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've stayed involved in international issues throughout."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we came in during Nixon's term, when anything doing with the Peace Corps was not very employable. And one of Margaret's site partners, Joe Kelly, was with a brand-new company that just got a huge contract from Health and Human Services, and they needed an evaluator. So Joe rang me up and asked me to come over and to interview, and I said, well, Joe, I don't know anything about health. And he said, but you do know the importance of a verb in every sentence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's how you got that job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're international and health expert. Is it international health or health for most? And that's how you got into health or did you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.764797785857969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we came in during Nixon's term, when anything doing with the Peace Corps was not very employable. And one of Margaret's site partners, Joe Kelly, was with a brand-new company that just got a huge contract from Health and Human Services, and they needed an evaluator. So Joe rang me up and asked me to come over and to interview, and I said, well, Joe, I don't know anything about health. And he said, but you do know the importance of a verb in every sentence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's how you got that job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're international and health expert. Is it international health or health for most? And that's how you got into health or did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's how I got into it, doing the with Joe Kelly's outfit. And then there was a person at USAID, a former Peace Corps director in Indonesia, who was a close friend of the president of the unit I was with, family health care. And he set the standard that there's got to be another way for AID to contract for health assistance. You know, consulting firms, because everything was done through the American Public Health Association. So he said, if I could get you a contract, would you be willing to take it? So my boss answered, yeah. It happened to be Korea, South Korea. But 30 days from takeoff to landing, we had to come up with a plan for health reform in South Korea. And so, along with Stan and his vice president, Stan asked me to go with them. Margaret knows Stan very well, Stan is an excellent medical doctor. He can't write though, he wanted someone write this up. And so that's where we wrote it up in 30 days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was implemented?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.960886428731076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're international and health expert. Is it international health or health for most? And that's how you got into health or did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's how I got into it, doing the with Joe Kelly's outfit. And then there was a person at USAID, a former Peace Corps director in Indonesia, who was a close friend of the president of the unit I was with, family health care. And he set the standard that there's got to be another way for AID to contract for health assistance. You know, consulting firms, because everything was done through the American Public Health Association. So he said, if I could get you a contract, would you be willing to take it? So my boss answered, yeah. It happened to be Korea, South Korea. But 30 days from takeoff to landing, we had to come up with a plan for health reform in South Korea. And so, along with Stan and his vice president, Stan asked me to go with them. Margaret knows Stan very well, Stan is an excellent medical doctor. He can't write though, he wanted someone write this up. And so that's where we wrote it up in 30 days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was implemented?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Would you believe it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it worked?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.289873809701195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's how I got into it, doing the with Joe Kelly's outfit. And then there was a person at USAID, a former Peace Corps director in Indonesia, who was a close friend of the president of the unit I was with, family health care. And he set the standard that there's got to be another way for AID to contract for health assistance. You know, consulting firms, because everything was done through the American Public Health Association. So he said, if I could get you a contract, would you be willing to take it? So my boss answered, yeah. It happened to be Korea, South Korea. But 30 days from takeoff to landing, we had to come up with a plan for health reform in South Korea. And so, along with Stan and his vice president, Stan asked me to go with them. Margaret knows Stan very well, Stan is an excellent medical doctor. He can't write though, he wanted someone write this up. And so that's where we wrote it up in 30 days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was implemented?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Would you believe it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He'd sent another team out there to undo it, what we did, and the team came back, said that's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's good."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.322082010779106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Would you believe it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He'd sent another team out there to undo it, what we did, and the team came back, said that's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, South Korea, it's still my, I've worked there a lot of times since, but it's still my favorite country. Because once they get an idea, get out of their way because they'll run right over you. They're very hard workers. It was to, when we went out there, the health system was 85 percent public and 15 private. And today is absolutely flipped, 15 percent public and 85 percent private."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do they have national health care? National health care through the private doctors?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.468980011976784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He'd sent another team out there to undo it, what we did, and the team came back, said that's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, South Korea, it's still my, I've worked there a lot of times since, but it's still my favorite country. Because once they get an idea, get out of their way because they'll run right over you. They're very hard workers. It was to, when we went out there, the health system was 85 percent public and 15 private. And today is absolutely flipped, 15 percent public and 85 percent private."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do they have national health care? National health care through the private doctors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but it's mandated that everybody pays. Even if you're out there in a rural village. The only other tax that's put on a home in a rural area is the defense tax and military tax. So now it's a health tax every month, so they all bought into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. So are there any other stories you'd like to tell about your Peace Corps experience in Colombia or staff? Staff in Colombia, staff in Washington, you've played multiple roles."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.041124844961294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, did you work in Peace Corps Washington?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a, um, it was a 16th century Italian court scene."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Explain that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was an assassin behind every pillar and two more to take their place. Peace Corps had the reputation of some bright shining star on the firmament because Sarge had direct appointment for 500 people without going through the Civil Service system. As Foreign Service reserve officers. That was unheard of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the way Peace Corps was set up."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.156805383290326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a, um, it was a 16th century Italian court scene."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Explain that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was an assassin behind every pillar and two more to take their place. Peace Corps had the reputation of some bright shining star on the firmament because Sarge had direct appointment for 500 people without going through the Civil Service system. As Foreign Service reserve officers. That was unheard of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the way Peace Corps was set up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When Kennedy, you know, because Kennedy and Shriver set it up, they set it up that way. But that was enormous political. And so the directors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of them former volunteers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.39645042587814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was an assassin behind every pillar and two more to take their place. Peace Corps had the reputation of some bright shining star on the firmament because Sarge had direct appointment for 500 people without going through the Civil Service system. As Foreign Service reserve officers. That was unheard of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the way Peace Corps was set up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When Kennedy, you know, because Kennedy and Shriver set it up, they set it up that way. But that was enormous political. And so the directors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of them former volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, when we got there, they started to get former volunteers when I started to come out. Most of them were, you know, if you knew somebody in the Kennedy administration and then LBJ, like my boss being, you know, the niece, they got it. And if you wanted to remove someone, you didn't have to go through any kind of, or you just, you're finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when did that change?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.662722695420156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When Kennedy, you know, because Kennedy and Shriver set it up, they set it up that way. But that was enormous political. And so the directors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of them former volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, when we got there, they started to get former volunteers when I started to come out. Most of them were, you know, if you knew somebody in the Kennedy administration and then LBJ, like my boss being, you know, the niece, they got it. And if you wanted to remove someone, you didn't have to go through any kind of, or you just, you're finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when did that change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know when it changed, but that was, I mean, I was the victim of it. I was in one office and the deputy director came down to our office, went to the light switch and turned it off. He said, you have 30 days to find something else. And that was merciful because normally it was just, you're out. So I got, on the 29th day, I got another offer, but that's how it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was there an advantage, do you think, just for a quick start up? That's probably why they did it, right? For a quick start up to get people in and not have to go through the whole Civil Service system? Was there a positive side to this? Or was it all negative?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.95858077268906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, when we got there, they started to get former volunteers when I started to come out. Most of them were, you know, if you knew somebody in the Kennedy administration and then LBJ, like my boss being, you know, the niece, they got it. And if you wanted to remove someone, you didn't have to go through any kind of, or you just, you're finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when did that change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know when it changed, but that was, I mean, I was the victim of it. I was in one office and the deputy director came down to our office, went to the light switch and turned it off. He said, you have 30 days to find something else. And that was merciful because normally it was just, you're out. So I got, on the 29th day, I got another offer, but that's how it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was there an advantage, do you think, just for a quick start up? That's probably why they did it, right? For a quick start up to get people in and not have to go through the whole Civil Service system? Was there a positive side to this? Or was it all negative?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it harnessed a lot of raw enthusiasm which they needed. A lot of can do. Nothing's impossible. We'll get it done. And that enthusiasm ran the Peace Corps for maybe up until Joe Blatchford came as director appointed by Nixon, and he was a real, real disaster. I mean, the first thing he did was to redecorate his office and to get a new car. So it was things for him, not the spirit at all. I mean, Sarge had an old jalopy, you know, that he used. He didn't even hang pictures in his office, put them on the floor and lean them up against a wall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't have time."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.398423080765623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know when it changed, but that was, I mean, I was the victim of it. I was in one office and the deputy director came down to our office, went to the light switch and turned it off. He said, you have 30 days to find something else. And that was merciful because normally it was just, you're out. So I got, on the 29th day, I got another offer, but that's how it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was there an advantage, do you think, just for a quick start up? That's probably why they did it, right? For a quick start up to get people in and not have to go through the whole Civil Service system? Was there a positive side to this? Or was it all negative?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it harnessed a lot of raw enthusiasm which they needed. A lot of can do. Nothing's impossible. We'll get it done. And that enthusiasm ran the Peace Corps for maybe up until Joe Blatchford came as director appointed by Nixon, and he was a real, real disaster. I mean, the first thing he did was to redecorate his office and to get a new car. So it was things for him, not the spirit at all. I mean, Sarge had an old jalopy, you know, that he used. He didn't even hang pictures in his office, put them on the floor and lean them up against a wall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't have time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't have time. Sarge interviewed everyone that came on staff. And I was sorry I was the only one that didn't get that because he said, oh, if he's there already, let him go. But he interviewed everyone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was really a team that he felt close to."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.664914534184025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it harnessed a lot of raw enthusiasm which they needed. A lot of can do. Nothing's impossible. We'll get it done. And that enthusiasm ran the Peace Corps for maybe up until Joe Blatchford came as director appointed by Nixon, and he was a real, real disaster. I mean, the first thing he did was to redecorate his office and to get a new car. So it was things for him, not the spirit at all. I mean, Sarge had an old jalopy, you know, that he used. He didn't even hang pictures in his office, put them on the floor and lean them up against a wall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't have time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't have time. Sarge interviewed everyone that came on staff. And I was sorry I was the only one that didn't get that because he said, oh, if he's there already, let him go. But he interviewed everyone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was really a team that he felt close to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And he had, you know, really good people, Frank Mankiewicz, you know, coming on. And when I went in, I had a, because Frank was the Latin American director, I had to go see him and he's the last person to sign off on my being on staff. And I went into his office and we shook hands and he said, I thought you were younger. And I said, I thought you were older."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Well, I guess under the Nixon administration, as you said, Peace Corps was not a top priority."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.734462387881511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And he had, you know, really good people, Frank Mankiewicz, you know, coming on. And when I went in, I had a, because Frank was the Latin American director, I had to go see him and he's the last person to sign off on my being on staff. And I went into his office and we shook hands and he said, I thought you were younger. And I said, I thought you were older."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Well, I guess under the Nixon administration, as you said, Peace Corps was not a top priority."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was sad. And then they melded it in with the ACTION and. But I have, in all the years I've been in Washington, I make it a point not to go near the Peace Corps building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that was a different time. This is their time, whatever it is. But even the building changed, and we were on 806 Connecticut right across from Lafayette Square. I'd look down, my office looked down on the White House. I wasn't back more than 10 days when all of a sudden I was standing at the White House next to this big Texan called LBJ. And Bill Moyers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For what, signing legislation?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.482735986535012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was sad. And then they melded it in with the ACTION and. But I have, in all the years I've been in Washington, I make it a point not to go near the Peace Corps building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that was a different time. This is their time, whatever it is. But even the building changed, and we were on 806 Connecticut right across from Lafayette Square. I'd look down, my office looked down on the White House. I wasn't back more than 10 days when all of a sudden I was standing at the White House next to this big Texan called LBJ. And Bill Moyers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For what, signing legislation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a birthday party or something. And poor LBJ was trying to. It was my first time I ever saw a president. He was trying to, the steward was trying to get him some coffee, and Moyers was trying to get a speech up under his left arm for his next appointment, moving him along. And he was trying to go like this and his right hand was just swollen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being president is not an easy thing. You keep going."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.2030399850389015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that was a different time. This is their time, whatever it is. But even the building changed, and we were on 806 Connecticut right across from Lafayette Square. I'd look down, my office looked down on the White House. I wasn't back more than 10 days when all of a sudden I was standing at the White House next to this big Texan called LBJ. And Bill Moyers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For what, signing legislation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a birthday party or something. And poor LBJ was trying to. It was my first time I ever saw a president. He was trying to, the steward was trying to get him some coffee, and Moyers was trying to get a speech up under his left arm for his next appointment, moving him along. And he was trying to go like this and his right hand was just swollen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being president is not an easy thing. You keep going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Moyers finally got him moving into the next door. Before the door opened, he said, the guy on your left is this, the guy on your right is this. And when that door opened, showtime. Bill, how in the hell have you been? How's the family?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a very good politician. He was a very good politician. You know, you have to like people."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.670044427821002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a birthday party or something. And poor LBJ was trying to. It was my first time I ever saw a president. He was trying to, the steward was trying to get him some coffee, and Moyers was trying to get a speech up under his left arm for his next appointment, moving him along. And he was trying to go like this and his right hand was just swollen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being president is not an easy thing. You keep going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Moyers finally got him moving into the next door. Before the door opened, he said, the guy on your left is this, the guy on your right is this. And when that door opened, showtime. Bill, how in the hell have you been? How's the family?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a very good politician. He was a very good politician. You know, you have to like people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Outside of Vietnam, I mean, what he created, you know, with Medicaid, Medicare, Voting Rights Act."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of accomplishments."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.188938253134446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Moyers finally got him moving into the next door. Before the door opened, he said, the guy on your left is this, the guy on your right is this. And when that door opened, showtime. Bill, how in the hell have you been? How's the family?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a very good politician. He was a very good politician. You know, you have to like people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Outside of Vietnam, I mean, what he created, you know, with Medicaid, Medicare, Voting Rights Act."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of accomplishments."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he was, I mean, I never met him, but he was quite a character. Yeah, good. So let me ask you, I mean, I don't want to cut it short, but I usually ask people to reflect on the three goals of the Peace Corps. One is to provide technical assistance where requested. Do you think you and the other volunteers really helped in the country?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.765486947927162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Outside of Vietnam, I mean, what he created, you know, with Medicaid, Medicare, Voting Rights Act."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of accomplishments."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he was, I mean, I never met him, but he was quite a character. Yeah, good. So let me ask you, I mean, I don't want to cut it short, but I usually ask people to reflect on the three goals of the Peace Corps. One is to provide technical assistance where requested. Do you think you and the other volunteers really helped in the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was marginal. I think that it's not that it was done, wasn't done organizationally, it was done individually. And unfortunately, it was happenstance more than planning, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Is that part of the enthusiasm gap?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.183874386585735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he was, I mean, I never met him, but he was quite a character. Yeah, good. So let me ask you, I mean, I don't want to cut it short, but I usually ask people to reflect on the three goals of the Peace Corps. One is to provide technical assistance where requested. Do you think you and the other volunteers really helped in the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was marginal. I think that it's not that it was done, wasn't done organizationally, it was done individually. And unfortunately, it was happenstance more than planning, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Is that part of the enthusiasm gap?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. Yeah, I think so. But that's my view. Every time I traveled when I was working for USAID or any contractor, I always tried to meet with Peace Corps volunteers. And down through the years, I would be disappointed when I would say to one, what do you think of Director Blatchford. And they'd say, who? I'd say, you know, the Peace Corps director. What's his name again? They had no connection with him at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe that's good."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.648749318428594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was marginal. I think that it's not that it was done, wasn't done organizationally, it was done individually. And unfortunately, it was happenstance more than planning, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Is that part of the enthusiasm gap?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. Yeah, I think so. But that's my view. Every time I traveled when I was working for USAID or any contractor, I always tried to meet with Peace Corps volunteers. And down through the years, I would be disappointed when I would say to one, what do you think of Director Blatchford. And they'd say, who? I'd say, you know, the Peace Corps director. What's his name again? They had no connection with him at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Sarge [Shriver] was, you can't, you couldn't talk Peace Corps without Sarge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sarge. right. That's different."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.165277020476216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. Yeah, I think so. But that's my view. Every time I traveled when I was working for USAID or any contractor, I always tried to meet with Peace Corps volunteers. And down through the years, I would be disappointed when I would say to one, what do you think of Director Blatchford. And they'd say, who? I'd say, you know, the Peace Corps director. What's his name again? They had no connection with him at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Sarge [Shriver] was, you can't, you couldn't talk Peace Corps without Sarge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sarge. right. That's different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there was no interest there, either. And I felt, you know, especially when I see them working for USAID, I get very disappointed in the in the global AIDS program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Former volunteers, you mean?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.7391966894180175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Sarge [Shriver] was, you can't, you couldn't talk Peace Corps without Sarge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sarge. right. That's different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there was no interest there, either. And I felt, you know, especially when I see them working for USAID, I get very disappointed in the in the global AIDS program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Former volunteers, you mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Active volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh active, are working now."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.043551877131131, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there was no interest there, either. And I felt, you know, especially when I see them working for USAID, I get very disappointed in the in the global AIDS program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Former volunteers, you mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Active volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh active, are working now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly in Africa and they work for PEPFAR, the president's emergency relief program for AIDS. But they're working alongside contractors who are making, you know, $180,000 a year and have all the privileges. But when they were recruited, they weren't recruited to work in AIDS, global AIDS. Just that when they got in there, there was a health program that converted to AIDS, that's what it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's basically cheap labor now."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.381724307923479, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Active volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh active, are working now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly in Africa and they work for PEPFAR, the president's emergency relief program for AIDS. But they're working alongside contractors who are making, you know, $180,000 a year and have all the privileges. But when they were recruited, they weren't recruited to work in AIDS, global AIDS. Just that when they got in there, there was a health program that converted to AIDS, that's what it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's basically cheap labor now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cheap labor.\n\nAnd I can't blame the volunteers for wanting to do it because they see that as a step into USAID, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a very different experience."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.75747145324831, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly in Africa and they work for PEPFAR, the president's emergency relief program for AIDS. But they're working alongside contractors who are making, you know, $180,000 a year and have all the privileges. But when they were recruited, they weren't recruited to work in AIDS, global AIDS. Just that when they got in there, there was a health program that converted to AIDS, that's what it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's basically cheap labor now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cheap labor.\n\nAnd I can't blame the volunteers for wanting to do it because they see that as a step into USAID, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a very different experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very different. Yeah. So what's in it for me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But maybe the, I mean, these countries are so much more developed now. Maybe liberal arts graduates can't help a whole lot without specialization."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0638571702758997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cheap labor.\n\nAnd I can't blame the volunteers for wanting to do it because they see that as a step into USAID, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a very different experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very different. Yeah. So what's in it for me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But maybe the, I mean, these countries are so much more developed now. Maybe liberal arts graduates can't help a whole lot without specialization."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was having lunch with a, she was a director of the National Bank of Rwanda. And as we went around the table introducing ourselves, someone said, you know, Jerry over there used to be in Peace Corps. And she stopped the meeting and she said, why don't you send me volunteers that can work on my national finance program? She said, you send me these volunteers in health and in education, but then, you know, I can't finance health and education unless I get my national accounts together. And you have, this country has those people, why can't you give them to me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, because it's also hard getting finance people to go into the Peace Corps, probably, at that point because you can get other jobs, or maybe the enthusiasm isn't there."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4042857447509998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very different. Yeah. So what's in it for me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But maybe the, I mean, these countries are so much more developed now. Maybe liberal arts graduates can't help a whole lot without specialization."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was having lunch with a, she was a director of the National Bank of Rwanda. And as we went around the table introducing ourselves, someone said, you know, Jerry over there used to be in Peace Corps. And she stopped the meeting and she said, why don't you send me volunteers that can work on my national finance program? She said, you send me these volunteers in health and in education, but then, you know, I can't finance health and education unless I get my national accounts together. And you have, this country has those people, why can't you give them to me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, because it's also hard getting finance people to go into the Peace Corps, probably, at that point because you can get other jobs, or maybe the enthusiasm isn't there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the things I tried to promote unsuccessfully, but they shouldn't have to go for two years in today's communications."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they don't anymore. There are all kinds of short-term options in Peace Corps now for professionals, for bankers, for doctors, can go in for shorter periods. So I think they've really taken that idea and are implementing it. I don't know how big the program is, but I know they're doing it."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7825397163899996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was having lunch with a, she was a director of the National Bank of Rwanda. And as we went around the table introducing ourselves, someone said, you know, Jerry over there used to be in Peace Corps. And she stopped the meeting and she said, why don't you send me volunteers that can work on my national finance program? She said, you send me these volunteers in health and in education, but then, you know, I can't finance health and education unless I get my national accounts together. And you have, this country has those people, why can't you give them to me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, because it's also hard getting finance people to go into the Peace Corps, probably, at that point because you can get other jobs, or maybe the enthusiasm isn't there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the things I tried to promote unsuccessfully, but they shouldn't have to go for two years in today's communications."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they don't anymore. There are all kinds of short-term options in Peace Corps now for professionals, for bankers, for doctors, can go in for shorter periods. So I think they've really taken that idea and are implementing it. I don't know how big the program is, but I know they're doing it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Called resource voluntarism."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I guess resource volunteerism, which is great because you get a different set of people involved."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2028219071, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the things I tried to promote unsuccessfully, but they shouldn't have to go for two years in today's communications."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they don't anymore. There are all kinds of short-term options in Peace Corps now for professionals, for bankers, for doctors, can go in for shorter periods. So I think they've really taken that idea and are implementing it. I don't know how big the program is, but I know they're doing it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Called resource voluntarism."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I guess resource volunteerism, which is great because you get a different set of people involved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't think, you know, they keep going for numbers, but I don't think we need numbers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the numbers are very small now compared to."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.669802119, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Called resource voluntarism."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I guess resource volunteerism, which is great because you get a different set of people involved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't think, you know, they keep going for numbers, but I don't think we need numbers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the numbers are very small now compared to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "7,200. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let me ask you about the other. Second goal of Peace Corps is to promote better understanding of the U.S. Do you think Peace Corps volunteers have done that in countries around the world?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.5306199, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "7,200. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let me ask you about the other. Second goal of Peace Corps is to promote better understanding of the U.S. Do you think Peace Corps volunteers have done that in countries around the world?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they have, in some cases. At the 50th anniversary of the Peace Corps, the government of Korea invited all volunteers who ever served in Korea to come back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's incredible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Turns out he was educated by Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well. So that's great."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.922911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they have, in some cases. At the 50th anniversary of the Peace Corps, the government of Korea invited all volunteers who ever served in Korea to come back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's incredible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Turns out he was educated by Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well. So that's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's good. But in terms of, I mean, Colombia is not that far away from the U.S., but I remember one day going up to a village. They met me with a horse and there was a young man that was going to guide me into the village. And along the way, he said, where are you from? And I said, I'm from the United States of America. There's a long silence. And he said, is that as far as Bogota?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So nowadays he would know that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.35879, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Turns out he was educated by Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well. So that's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's good. But in terms of, I mean, Colombia is not that far away from the U.S., but I remember one day going up to a village. They met me with a horse and there was a young man that was going to guide me into the village. And along the way, he said, where are you from? And I said, I'm from the United States of America. There's a long silence. And he said, is that as far as Bogota?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So nowadays he would know that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully he would know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He'd have a cell phone and he'd know all of that. So the third goal of Peace Corps is to promote better understanding of other peoples by Americans."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.8431, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's good. But in terms of, I mean, Colombia is not that far away from the U.S., but I remember one day going up to a village. They met me with a horse and there was a young man that was going to guide me into the village. And along the way, he said, where are you from? And I said, I'm from the United States of America. There's a long silence. And he said, is that as far as Bogota?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So nowadays he would know that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully he would know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He'd have a cell phone and he'd know all of that. So the third goal of Peace Corps is to promote better understanding of other peoples by Americans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, I think that may have been the one that we did well. Because I don't see how you could be abroad, living abroad, and not have a better understanding of these different cultures and people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And virtually everybody I've interviewed somehow has stayed very active internationally, whether it's professionally or in other ways. So we need more Peace Corps volunteers to learn about the world."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully he would know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He'd have a cell phone and he'd know all of that. So the third goal of Peace Corps is to promote better understanding of other peoples by Americans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, I think that may have been the one that we did well. Because I don't see how you could be abroad, living abroad, and not have a better understanding of these different cultures and people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And virtually everybody I've interviewed somehow has stayed very active internationally, whether it's professionally or in other ways. So we need more Peace Corps volunteers to learn about the world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When you see those that have gone into the Congress, you know, people like Sam Farr, and the effect they've had. Very positive effect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chris Dodd as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.51, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, I think that may have been the one that we did well. Because I don't see how you could be abroad, living abroad, and not have a better understanding of these different cultures and people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And virtually everybody I've interviewed somehow has stayed very active internationally, whether it's professionally or in other ways. So we need more Peace Corps volunteers to learn about the world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When you see those that have gone into the Congress, you know, people like Sam Farr, and the effect they've had. Very positive effect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chris Dodd as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chris Dodd. And our, who's the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Tom Petri, was a congressman from Wisconsin, Republican congressman, he was in our program."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When you see those that have gone into the Congress, you know, people like Sam Farr, and the effect they've had. Very positive effect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chris Dodd as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chris Dodd. And our, who's the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Tom Petri, was a congressman from Wisconsin, Republican congressman, he was in our program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's now retired, but he was in Congress for a long time and always spoke about, you know, pretty conservative, but when it came to Peace Corps, he was always talking about that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00026:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chris Dodd. And our, who's the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Tom Petri, was a congressman from Wisconsin, Republican congressman, he was in our program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's now retired, but he was in Congress for a long time and always spoke about, you know, pretty conservative, but when it came to Peace Corps, he was always talking about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I went to Somalia, I asked Marty for some references and he wrote me a very good letter. And when I got there, I didn't know that this guy was the combination, commandant of the city and FBI and CIA and everything else combined. But because of Marty's letter, he gave me an audience. And USAID was trying to put a child survival program into Somalia. So I asked him, why did you ask for this program? And he said, we didn't. What we wanted was we needed tanks and machine guns and airplanes. But what is it you call it again? I said, child survival. Yeah, they said I have to have some of that too. Oh dear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a funny note. Should we end on that note? That's great. Thanks."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00609:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.058334761671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of it, that’s right, the radar could tell you a lot of things about what was going on in the Earth. It could determine the moisture content in the snowpack to predict how much water Southern California would have or anyplace else in the world that depended on snowmelt. The moisture content in crops, moisture content in the soil, so you could predict crop yields. See below the surface of the Earth if it’s particularly dry sand, look for earthquake fault zones. I think originally they had hoped to get a spring measurement in [STS-]59 and then we were going to take a fall measurement on 68. Then they would compare it and see if you could determine any differences using the [Space] Radar Lab [SRL-2] of the state of the plants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about the photography. Did they train you on specific types of cameras? Or was it the normal cameras that the Shuttle always carried? Or were there some specific things that you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think a couple of them they normally carried. Gosh, I don’t remember the name, it’s been so long, the really large [format Linhof] camera that we mounted in the window. Then we would position to catch the shot of the ground. Then we used a regular Hasselblad and then a 35-millimeter also. Mostly the 35-millimeter was for in-cabin shots. With Earth obs it would be the Hasselblad and then the large format camera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’94 this was all film, correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, all of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of film to take up with you and bring down."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00609:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.39814973519, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think a couple of them they normally carried. Gosh, I don’t remember the name, it’s been so long, the really large [format Linhof] camera that we mounted in the window. Then we would position to catch the shot of the ground. Then we used a regular Hasselblad and then a 35-millimeter also. Mostly the 35-millimeter was for in-cabin shots. With Earth obs it would be the Hasselblad and then the large format camera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’94 this was all film, correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, all of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of film to take up with you and bring down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. If you’ve got it, we felt we should burn it up. I’d be surprised if we left any film that was left unexposed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been interested in photography before that? Or was that something that was new?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00609:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.886833039099999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, all of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of film to take up with you and bring down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. If you’ve got it, we felt we should burn it up. I’d be surprised if we left any film that was left unexposed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been interested in photography before that? Or was that something that was new?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the usual family shots. Certainly I hadn’t been interested in photography from space, but the photographers we had, they were great teachers themselves. They certainly impressed upon us to take a lot of pictures and that you don’t get to go back and redo it, so take a lot. You learn how to take pictures so the ones you bring back are good, because that’s what you’re going to remember on all your missions was the good time you had with your friends and whatever you took a picture of. Plus, the scientists were depending on us to take good photos of the Earth. It was good training and I think all of us took it to heart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were those the NASA photographers that were teaching you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00609:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.540925598999998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. If you’ve got it, we felt we should burn it up. I’d be surprised if we left any film that was left unexposed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been interested in photography before that? Or was that something that was new?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the usual family shots. Certainly I hadn’t been interested in photography from space, but the photographers we had, they were great teachers themselves. They certainly impressed upon us to take a lot of pictures and that you don’t get to go back and redo it, so take a lot. You learn how to take pictures so the ones you bring back are good, because that’s what you’re going to remember on all your missions was the good time you had with your friends and whatever you took a picture of. Plus, the scientists were depending on us to take good photos of the Earth. It was good training and I think all of us took it to heart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were those the NASA photographers that were teaching you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember who any of those might have been?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00609:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 17.26769511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the usual family shots. Certainly I hadn’t been interested in photography from space, but the photographers we had, they were great teachers themselves. They certainly impressed upon us to take a lot of pictures and that you don’t get to go back and redo it, so take a lot. You learn how to take pictures so the ones you bring back are good, because that’s what you’re going to remember on all your missions was the good time you had with your friends and whatever you took a picture of. Plus, the scientists were depending on us to take good photos of the Earth. It was good training and I think all of us took it to heart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were those the NASA photographers that were teaching you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember who any of those might have been?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of them, Don [C.] Carico. He was one of the instructors. I can picture the other ones, but I can’t think of their names right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything about that mission other than it was your first mission and you were the pilot? Anything specific about that mission that stood out in your mind about any of the experiences? Maybe that first time actually finally getting to space."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00609:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They build in turnover, you have presleep and they have postsleep. You go through those activities. At the same time there’s of course allocated time to turn over, hey, here’s where we are, this is what’s coming up next, this is what happened today. That worked well. We worked two shifts. My shiftmates were the commander, Mike [Michael A.] Baker and Jeff [K.] Wisoff, and then the other crew was Steve [Steven L.] Smith and Tom [Thomas D.] Jones and Dan [Daniel W.] Bursch. The crew was just filled with people that are just some of the nicest folks in the office, so it was a lot of fun. Very dedicated professional crew. It was truly enjoyable.\\n\\n It was busy though. I think during the sims [simulations] when we were simming crew shifts, the other folks would be around there getting the benefit of what we were doing in the sims. When you’re up there and there really is only three of you and you’ve got to take care of the Orbiter plus do maneuvers plus run the cameras, then it was busier than what I thought it would be. Maybe that was just being in space. It was just different. But we kept up with it and were glad to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You landed in California, didn’t you, at Edwards [Air Force Base]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We weren’t supposed to. Bad weather at KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida]. I think low clouds. They took us into California. Of course we didn’t care. Somebody was there to greet us and take us back to Houston. That was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whether it was a lake bed or a runway didn’t matter to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is pretty out there. Is there anything else about that mission you can think about or anything specific that you remember?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00609:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We weren’t supposed to. Bad weather at KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida]. I think low clouds. They took us into California. Of course we didn’t care. Somebody was there to greet us and take us back to Houston. That was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whether it was a lake bed or a runway didn’t matter to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is pretty out there. Is there anything else about that mission you can think about or anything specific that you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. We had some other things that were good experiments. MAPS, Measurement of Air Pollution from Satellites, that measured carbon monoxide around the atmosphere, so you could determine the source of it. It doesn’t do you any good to sign treaties that say, “Hey, we won’t put any more carbon in the atmosphere than this,” if you can’t measure it and see whether they’re violating the treaty or not. That was a success.\\n\\n I think we had a protein crystal growth experiment, which was a big thing at the time, structure-based drug design. Most flights I think had that payload on there, it was a nice thing to be a part of. Then we had a small plant growth experiment on there. Then Steve Smith and I had an experiment, something to do with balance or motion sickness in space that we attached a lot of electrical leads to ourselves and looked at different targets or moving things to see what that would do to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you tried to make yourself have motion sickness?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00609:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a fallout from that lady’s work here at JSC on that balance experiment. It was pretty interesting to hear that just this morning driving to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is interesting. It does make you feel, I would imagine, like the work you’re doing and that NASA is doing in space does have applications on Earth, even though sometimes people don’t realize exactly how it affects their lives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think you see that all the time. It just takes so long to get those things to market. But it does, almost everything we do up there has some benefit down here on the planet. It’s a good thing.\\n\\n But the mission was a tremendous amount of fun. We did good work. I’m just happy that in my career I got to do an Earth science mission, because of course the other ones were to Mir [Russian Space Station] and to [the International] Space Station. I feel good about doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you had that math background, Earth science was important to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Like I said, they make you a believer. They’re so dedicated. Gosh, the Earth is so beautiful up there. To spend a whole mission looking at it, trying to take data for scientists and engineers was very rewarding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would imagine you’re getting paid to actually take pictures from up there, that would be pretty good."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00609:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think you see that all the time. It just takes so long to get those things to market. But it does, almost everything we do up there has some benefit down here on the planet. It’s a good thing.\\n\\n But the mission was a tremendous amount of fun. We did good work. I’m just happy that in my career I got to do an Earth science mission, because of course the other ones were to Mir [Russian Space Station] and to [the International] Space Station. I feel good about doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you had that math background, Earth science was important to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Like I said, they make you a believer. They’re so dedicated. Gosh, the Earth is so beautiful up there. To spend a whole mission looking at it, trying to take data for scientists and engineers was very rewarding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would imagine you’re getting paid to actually take pictures from up there, that would be pretty good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t want to keep you. It’s a little after 2:00. If you want to we can stop and then we can let you get on with what you were going to do today."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00050:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 112.07553181976286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what I should have done also. Kudos to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't do that, Jessie did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, kudos to Jessie, if it could have been well aware that I basically had moderated a form that Presidential Libraries used for oral history interviews. And I should have run it by the General Counsel's Office and did not. So my hat is off to you on that score."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, the only reason I know that is when I handed the form to Chris Runkel when I interviewed him, he said, “Oh, I made this.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, so you think that Jessie asked him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jessie sent me all the information that I needed. Maybe it was someone who asked him originally, I'm not sure, but it's that one in the oral history file in the Y drive. I just printed several of the form to use."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00050:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 124.52836868862539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, kudos to Jessie, if it could have been well aware that I basically had moderated a form that Presidential Libraries used for oral history interviews. And I should have run it by the General Counsel's Office and did not. So my hat is off to you on that score."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, the only reason I know that is when I handed the form to Chris Runkel when I interviewed him, he said, “Oh, I made this.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, so you think that Jessie asked him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jessie sent me all the information that I needed. Maybe it was someone who asked him originally, I'm not sure, but it's that one in the oral history file in the Y drive. I just printed several of the form to use."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Excellent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you signed it last week does it becomes public domain?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00050:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.700000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, there's one more that relates to workings of the National Archives, sort of, and that was a presentation last June, a year ago, June 24, 2014. That was a presentation of the Afro-American History Society and that was in Archives II and it was filmed by the society, so it's not a National Archives YouTube, but it has been filmed. A close friend of mine, a neighbor, is Dr. Ezra Naughton, who was born in St. Croix, and his talk entitled \"The 1848 Emancipation of a Slave Population: US Virgin Islands as a Mirror on America.\" So it was a National Archives group that hosted that presentation, you know the National Archives does have a record group for the Virgin Islands, and so I think that counts. There have been a couple of times that I've done introductions of speakers, there was one twice this year, as a matter of fact. William Marvel had a talk here in the theater, \"Lincoln's Autocrat: The Life of Edwin Stanton,\" and then last month in July, Anthony Pitch talked about his book, Our Crimes were being Jewish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I went to that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, you heard me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I've read it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I've known Tony Pitch for a number of years, and I'd once told him that I wouldn't be able to go to a presentation he was giving because I had put together a field trip for myself to go to the Eisenhower and Truman libraries, which I did. Because I had arranged for my sister-in-law's mother, Joyce Wagner, to speak at the Eisenhower Library on her self-published memoir: \"A Promise Kept.\" So as a Holocaust survivor, survived two years in Auschwitz, she ended up in her book quoting General Eisenhower and his becoming overwhelmed with emotions on seeing those survivors and those who did not survive the death camps, and the ones the Americans liberated were not really the death factories that Auschwitz and other places were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help Anthony Pitch with finding documents here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00050:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 13.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, you heard me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I've read it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I've known Tony Pitch for a number of years, and I'd once told him that I wouldn't be able to go to a presentation he was giving because I had put together a field trip for myself to go to the Eisenhower and Truman libraries, which I did. Because I had arranged for my sister-in-law's mother, Joyce Wagner, to speak at the Eisenhower Library on her self-published memoir: \"A Promise Kept.\" So as a Holocaust survivor, survived two years in Auschwitz, she ended up in her book quoting General Eisenhower and his becoming overwhelmed with emotions on seeing those survivors and those who did not survive the death camps, and the ones the Americans liberated were not really the death factories that Auschwitz and other places were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help Anthony Pitch with finding documents here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was instrumental in his using some quotes from Joyce Wagner. The first time I worked with him was on his War of 1812 book. And for that there was, I think, a House of Representatives investigation into the war and I had provided those to him. So that was the beginning of my assistance to him. I did not work with him on his second major book, that of, They Killed Poppa Dead on the Lincoln assassination."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll end with the same question I ended the last interview. Are there any other anecdotes or words of wisdom that you want to share before we conclude?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00271:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 64.13215080915062, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It all worked when it got put together, without ever having been together before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You touched on it—there were delays because of the funding Russia had. Were there contingencies in place to deal with these delays, or did you just deal with them as they happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say that we dealt with them as they happened. We would go to Russia for meetings and they would lay out their current schedule. It would be probably as favorable as they could make it, and it would show the Service Module being just a few months delayed. But that would happen each time we would go and do that.\\n\\n If you go back and relook at the early Shuttle manifest around that time you’d see the FGB launch, then you see STS-88 with the node docking to it. Then you continue to see outfitting flights that we would go and visit and do things, and maybe bring a small component, until we got to the Service Module. If you look at that period between STS-88 and the Service Module, it’s about a year and a half. I can’t recall it now, but there’s three or four Shuttle flights in there that were basically just visiting and bringing outfitting and supplies. We filled in that time doing things that we felt could be get-ahead steps with the ISS configuration as it was, with just the FGB and the node."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just waiting for that next part to come up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Waiting for that next step. Then when the Service Module flew, it was really rapid-fire after that. The Service Module flew in the summer of 2000, and by I want to say the next winter we were flying the U.S. Lab, and then just continued on for several missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see the first launches of Zarya [FGB] and the Unity [module]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00271:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 27, "return_to_go": 82.6644814131231, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think you would probably find different opinions depending on the person, but I think in general they felt that, “We understand why the Russians need this from a financial standpoint, and we understand we’ve put protections in place that keep us all safe as crew.”\\n\\n Some of them worked better than others with the whole crew. Dennis was very much with the Russians. Other tourists I think over time were a little better integrated into the full crew. Some of that was their personality, some of that was the crew. I can’t recall a singular no, we shouldn’t do this kind of view from the crew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just wondering how much it would affect what the crew was supposed to be doing during the time that the tourist was there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was part of what we worked with on the Code of Conduct and the timeline. If the Russians were going to enable this, the activities were going to be in the Russian modules. It wasn’t going to use the Lab unless we agreed to it, it wasn’t going to use another partner element unless it had been agreed to. We built all that process.\\n\\n I do recall another funny thing. Charlie was one of our principals in the debate with the Russians about “Should we really do this?” In the middle of negotiations Charlie got emotional and started ranting in Russian at the Russians. I had to pull him and said, “Charlie, your team needs to know what you’re saying.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s funny. But he could do it, so he did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Charlie has excellent Russian language skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine a lot of them that flew did.\\n\\n The U.S. budgets changed a lot, depending on the President, administration, things that happened with the Station Program. Talk about some of those changes and how that affected the Station, especially over those early years, and the budget in general during that time period."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00271:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 66.1445264324935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I remember specifically there were five major swim lanes, if you will, of things that we were going to do to relook at the configuration and formulate a plan that was going to help us improve the cost control of the Space Station Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s interesting how they worked through that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would say the working through it part Bill Gerst is probably the best source for how we really got through that piece. I literally was out for six months working on my doctorate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I was going to ask you about that. You got your doctorate, and back in was it ’96 you’d worked on your master’s."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I did the Defense Systems Management College course, at the end of that course several local colleges came in and said, “Well, you just completed 9 credit hours of 36 for a master’s in engineering management.” That’s kind of an interesting idea. So I went ahead and went to GW [George Washington University, Washington, DC], mostly NASA-sponsored, and finished out the master’s. Then just kept taking courses figuring, “Well, if I stop, I’ve stopped forever. If I keep taking the courses it’s still a future decision.”\\n\\n After the Space Station financial issues, they were going to reorganize the Space Station Office at Headquarters anyway. Pretty much they said, “You can do other jobs. We’d like you to do this, but we have some people in mind, and we have a path that we want to do with this reorganization.”\\n\\n So I took that opportunity to say, “Well, actually what I’d really like to do is maybe take a year sabbatical and try to finish my doctorate.” That was totally acceptable to Fred [Frederick D.] Gregory at the time and Sean, so that was the deal that I went out on. But that ended up terminating the day of the [STS-107 Space Shuttle] Columbia [tragedy]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course my next question was the Columbia accident, if we want to talk about that for a while. Just the experience of that day and what your memories were. ."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00271:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 30, "return_to_go": 72.382807147215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would say the working through it part Bill Gerst is probably the best source for how we really got through that piece. I literally was out for six months working on my doctorate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I was going to ask you about that. You got your doctorate, and back in was it ’96 you’d worked on your master’s."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I did the Defense Systems Management College course, at the end of that course several local colleges came in and said, “Well, you just completed 9 credit hours of 36 for a master’s in engineering management.” That’s kind of an interesting idea. So I went ahead and went to GW [George Washington University, Washington, DC], mostly NASA-sponsored, and finished out the master’s. Then just kept taking courses figuring, “Well, if I stop, I’ve stopped forever. If I keep taking the courses it’s still a future decision.”\\n\\n After the Space Station financial issues, they were going to reorganize the Space Station Office at Headquarters anyway. Pretty much they said, “You can do other jobs. We’d like you to do this, but we have some people in mind, and we have a path that we want to do with this reorganization.”\\n\\n So I took that opportunity to say, “Well, actually what I’d really like to do is maybe take a year sabbatical and try to finish my doctorate.” That was totally acceptable to Fred [Frederick D.] Gregory at the time and Sean, so that was the deal that I went out on. But that ended up terminating the day of the [STS-107 Space Shuttle] Columbia [tragedy]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course my next question was the Columbia accident, if we want to talk about that for a while. Just the experience of that day and what your memories were. ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was officially on sabbatical—well, quasi-sabbatical, because Fred’s deal was that I would still come to the office one day a week just to be available to help with Space Station things and transition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that when you were Special Assistant to the Associate Administrator?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00271:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 28.071615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It all happened so fast. Like I said, this was a new experience, working with all these different agencies and organizing all that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an interesting thing, too. Within a couple days—it was about when they started talking about the ICS and the firefighters, and that was probably a couple weeks—we had a tag up with the agencies every morning, but it was at the senior leader level. I figured out about that time, and went to Bill and said, “They’re all having a meeting without us beforehand. I don’t know that they appreciate whether we should be there or not, but all you’re hearing is what they’ve already sorted out.” So we ended up going back and inserting ourselves into the earlier meeting as well, to understand more at the working level what was going on.\\n\\n It was obvious that all of these folks were just reporting up to their bosses, the one that we were tied in to. They weren’t actually making the decisions or recommendations, they were just reporting up to the bosses. That gave us better visibility into what they were really talking about and how this process worked.\\n\\n We also had a person, Amy [K.] Donahue, at Headquarters, who was a colleague of Sean’s. She had had some experience with the ICS structure in the past, so she was actually one of our ties to that whole process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know you had copies of the oral histories. Weren’t you working on a lessons learned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working on a lessons learned with Roger, and we ended up culling them down to a set of talking points. We developed it into a presentation that I used for a while. In fact, I used it in my teaching at GW a little bit. But we never actually published it in a formal sense. Shortly after that Roger passed, and so there wasn’t really any path to collect all of those pieces together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it more lessons learned for NASA on what to do after an accident like that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00271:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 15.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Many other duties as assigned, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the reports that you were giving to the press and how you’re not making news anymore. Of course other things were going on in the world at that time, with the response to 9/11 [terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001] in 2003 right after Columbia came down. Yes, there was a lot going on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say I was pretty inwardly focused at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I can imagine. I think a lot of people were. We may not get to talk about all of it, but in the time we have left—President Bush’s [2004] announcement for The Vision for Space Exploration, ending the Shuttle Program, finishing out ISS, and then creating some type of spacecraft to return to the Moon and on to Mars, which obviously you are very involved in now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at the time—do you want to talk about that announcement?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00984:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 37.579685771909936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had retired from the PD about a year and a half, and I got a call, asked me if I’d like to work part-time. I think Ernie [D.] Walker, whom you’re going to be interviewing, was the head of the photo department. That’s how I came back. I came back for four years and worked 1,000 hours a year. We were limited, then. You lose one buck off every two from Social Security at that time. So I was off all winter. I didn’t have to drive from Mansfield [Ohio] in the winter, and so it worked out real nice. Then, they wanted me to go to the next one in the fifth year, and I said, “No, I’m going to write my book,” so I wrote. I took off and took a computer class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Figured out what to do, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was about 74 years old, and I wrote the book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did they want you to do when you came back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was doing the photo lab, photo work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not as dangerous as before, I hope."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00984:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 40.64409530212215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was about 74 years old, and I wrote the book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did they want you to do when you came back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was doing the photo lab, photo work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not as dangerous as before, I hope."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Just regular projects that they had, and I was able to do a couple public relations type [activities] because I’d been doing photography at the Plain Dealer for 31 years, and I knew public relations pretty well. So I was able to help them that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you were working so much with the engineers, not so much in the actual photo lab, but you developed your own film, your still and movie film? Or did you send it back to the lab?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00984:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 38.49343922458017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was doing the photo lab, photo work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not as dangerous as before, I hope."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Just regular projects that they had, and I was able to do a couple public relations type [activities] because I’d been doing photography at the Plain Dealer for 31 years, and I knew public relations pretty well. So I was able to help them that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you were working so much with the engineers, not so much in the actual photo lab, but you developed your own film, your still and movie film? Or did you send it back to the lab?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We could develop—not in color, and we did color. Sometimes we did color in the photo lab for the crash fire program. We asked—Eastman Kodak [Company] and all these companies are all geared to commercial, and that’s what they developed. They weren’t into research, so we would come and ask them to do certain things. One, they had an aerial film that was beautiful, but 32 speed against 8, from Kodachrome [color film]. Thirty-two is quite a gain, that’s two f-stops, and you either can speed up the camera or stop it down more.\\n\\n We asked them to give us 300 rolls of Fastek-type—the sprocket holes have to be perfect—and run that at 4,000 frames a second. In a second and a half, you’ll run through a roll of film. There’s 4,000 frames to 100 feet. It would run about a second and a half, all the film’s gone, because it’s building up the speed, and then it’s going to go to 4,000. That adds a half-second to it. We asked them to spool the aerial film onto 16-millimeter film, and then we were able to use that faster film in some of our experiments where we were crashing the planes. We were asking Kodak to do something that was not in their production at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they willing to do that, those companies that you would have to ask?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00984:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 42.7704880273113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Just regular projects that they had, and I was able to do a couple public relations type [activities] because I’d been doing photography at the Plain Dealer for 31 years, and I knew public relations pretty well. So I was able to help them that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you were working so much with the engineers, not so much in the actual photo lab, but you developed your own film, your still and movie film? Or did you send it back to the lab?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We could develop—not in color, and we did color. Sometimes we did color in the photo lab for the crash fire program. We asked—Eastman Kodak [Company] and all these companies are all geared to commercial, and that’s what they developed. They weren’t into research, so we would come and ask them to do certain things. One, they had an aerial film that was beautiful, but 32 speed against 8, from Kodachrome [color film]. Thirty-two is quite a gain, that’s two f-stops, and you either can speed up the camera or stop it down more.\\n\\n We asked them to give us 300 rolls of Fastek-type—the sprocket holes have to be perfect—and run that at 4,000 frames a second. In a second and a half, you’ll run through a roll of film. There’s 4,000 frames to 100 feet. It would run about a second and a half, all the film’s gone, because it’s building up the speed, and then it’s going to go to 4,000. That adds a half-second to it. We asked them to spool the aerial film onto 16-millimeter film, and then we were able to use that faster film in some of our experiments where we were crashing the planes. We were asking Kodak to do something that was not in their production at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they willing to do that, those companies that you would have to ask?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you bought enough—we had to buy 300 rolls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you buy enough of anything, they’re willing to work with you, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00984:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 32, "return_to_go": 44.500577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he said, “Those guys, you’d be surprised what they come up with.” They got their solution in the second run, but they spent six months afterward designing instruments to clock detonations, flame speeds. It took them six months using my data to do it. They keep going back to the instruments, and there were shortcuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would have been so simple. Comparatively simple, anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there’s a place for everything. Am I running over time on you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you’re fine. I was just going to ask you one more question, then I was going to see if Rebecca had anything for you. The question I have doesn’t really apply from ’47 to ’53 so much. When you came back in the 80’s, the technology in photography changed so much over time, and compared to now, of course, it’s changed a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn’t change that much, yet. They hadn’t gotten into digital yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Digital kind of revolutionized everything."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00984:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.57, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had a broken family, so I wasn’t going to leave those kids. You can’t hold a marriage together, gone six months at a time. The National Geographic [magazine] people do that. They go out six months, come back six months. You don’t have a marriage. It can’t last."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you can’t do that. It’s like he said, if you’re going to be an engineer, you need to be married to your job. The same thing with those type of photographers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, the engineer, you could be at your own location. That works, but the other ones I see a lot, they’ve just become tramps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to see if Rebecca had any questions.\n\nI’ve just got two easy ones. When you were here at the Center, did you also have to take pictures of the dull and the mundane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You might have two people getting an award over here at the Ad [Administration] Building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did the everyday photography, too?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00984:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 17.3, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, the engineer, you could be at your own location. That works, but the other ones I see a lot, they’ve just become tramps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to see if Rebecca had any questions.\n\nI’ve just got two easy ones. When you were here at the Center, did you also have to take pictures of the dull and the mundane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You might have two people getting an award over here at the Ad [Administration] Building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did the everyday photography, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t do too much of that, but they’re doing a lot of that now. I even sent you a copy of the first issue of The Frontier [newsletter], volume 1, issue I, because I’m in there. They did a story on me. That’s how I happened to be there.\\n\\n Now you know why I left, too. We got that in, we got how I started. I don’t know—you got a lot of stuff you didn’t expect, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s all good. Did you have another?\n\nYes, one more. Did you have a favorite camera that you liked to use, your go-to camera?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00984:68", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 7.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You might have two people getting an award over here at the Ad [Administration] Building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did the everyday photography, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t do too much of that, but they’re doing a lot of that now. I even sent you a copy of the first issue of The Frontier [newsletter], volume 1, issue I, because I’m in there. They did a story on me. That’s how I happened to be there.\\n\\n Now you know why I left, too. We got that in, we got how I started. I don’t know—you got a lot of stuff you didn’t expect, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s all good. Did you have another?\n\nYes, one more. Did you have a favorite camera that you liked to use, your go-to camera?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a little Leica [C-2] that’s got the cover off. I bought a body for $20. I used it at the Plain Dealer in my pocket, and I took a lot of my great pictures because it was with me. It had a 25-milllimeter lens, which is very rare to find. You have 20s and you 50s and 35s, but this was a 25, which is half of a 50, so you get a 6-foot person, 6 feet away. I didn’t have to do much calculating with that. I just set the thing on shoot, and I shot a lot on the fly. I’d see things and I’d take a picture. My collection’s at CSU [Cleveland State University]. I had 51 boxes, and we’ve been going through them for a couple of years. I’m trying to write another book and I got my whole family two weeks ago, and they all picked out the pictures they want. They’re all going to CSU, and we have a contract where the family can get scans for 25 years, any ones they want."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great, that’s great that you have that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 36.39067799303977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I get fired from a lot of jobs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] Did they put someone else in that position to keep fighting it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Yes. Who’d they put in? [Rodney G.] Rod Rose. Rodney Rose, and though he spoke more eloquently than I did, he failed just as dismally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned in the last interview that you became head of the Flight Dynamics Section, and that was around 1974, about the same time, I guess, that you were fired from the other job, and then Section Head in 1976. Do you have any specific memories about that time period or anything you’d like to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. Not really. We had a good bunch of people. A lot of the landing and recovery guys came over to work with us, Ron [Ronald C.] Epps and [Michael] Mike Collins and some other people. [Charles F.] Chuck Deiterich was part of that group. No, nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you moved on to Branch Chief in 1980?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 32.6563088811553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Yes. Who’d they put in? [Rodney G.] Rod Rose. Rodney Rose, and though he spoke more eloquently than I did, he failed just as dismally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned in the last interview that you became head of the Flight Dynamics Section, and that was around 1974, about the same time, I guess, that you were fired from the other job, and then Section Head in 1976. Do you have any specific memories about that time period or anything you’d like to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. Not really. We had a good bunch of people. A lot of the landing and recovery guys came over to work with us, Ron [Ronald C.] Epps and [Michael] Mike Collins and some other people. [Charles F.] Chuck Deiterich was part of that group. No, nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you moved on to Branch Chief in 1980?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I guess that’s when [Kenneth S.] Kenny Kleinknecht took over the combination of Flight Crew Ops [Operations] and I guess it was Flight Operations back then. Had [Eugene F.] Gene Kranz running Flight Ops and George [W. S.] Abbey running Flight Crew Ops, and in addition to the trajectory stuff we’d always done, I picked up some of the flight crew procedures and training stuff. These are the guys responsible for the crew checklist and procedures during ascent and entry. Another good bunch of people and some interesting work; initial phases of planning how you fly a Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any specific memories? You said it was an interesting time."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.840343201283662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. Not really. We had a good bunch of people. A lot of the landing and recovery guys came over to work with us, Ron [Ronald C.] Epps and [Michael] Mike Collins and some other people. [Charles F.] Chuck Deiterich was part of that group. No, nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you moved on to Branch Chief in 1980?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I guess that’s when [Kenneth S.] Kenny Kleinknecht took over the combination of Flight Crew Ops [Operations] and I guess it was Flight Operations back then. Had [Eugene F.] Gene Kranz running Flight Ops and George [W. S.] Abbey running Flight Crew Ops, and in addition to the trajectory stuff we’d always done, I picked up some of the flight crew procedures and training stuff. These are the guys responsible for the crew checklist and procedures during ascent and entry. Another good bunch of people and some interesting work; initial phases of planning how you fly a Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any specific memories? You said it was an interesting time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. Not really. About that time, though, we were beginning simulations for the first Shuttle flight, and in addition to the other stuff, I was the ascent Flight Dynamics Officer for the first two Shuttles. Long years, long hours. In preparation for STS-1, we simulated I think the number was 1,843 hours of ascent simulations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely a lot of simulation hours."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 35.3781591125374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I guess that’s when [Kenneth S.] Kenny Kleinknecht took over the combination of Flight Crew Ops [Operations] and I guess it was Flight Operations back then. Had [Eugene F.] Gene Kranz running Flight Ops and George [W. S.] Abbey running Flight Crew Ops, and in addition to the trajectory stuff we’d always done, I picked up some of the flight crew procedures and training stuff. These are the guys responsible for the crew checklist and procedures during ascent and entry. Another good bunch of people and some interesting work; initial phases of planning how you fly a Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any specific memories? You said it was an interesting time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. Not really. About that time, though, we were beginning simulations for the first Shuttle flight, and in addition to the other stuff, I was the ascent Flight Dynamics Officer for the first two Shuttles. Long years, long hours. In preparation for STS-1, we simulated I think the number was 1,843 hours of ascent simulations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely a lot of simulation hours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that first flight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 35.97573234726378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. Not really. About that time, though, we were beginning simulations for the first Shuttle flight, and in addition to the other stuff, I was the ascent Flight Dynamics Officer for the first two Shuttles. Long years, long hours. In preparation for STS-1, we simulated I think the number was 1,843 hours of ascent simulations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely a lot of simulation hours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that first flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We simulated for a long time, and I think we probably scrubbed two or three times before the first launch. Everything was going good; we got down around within five minutes, maybe, maybe two or three minutes, of zero. We had a flight rule that said we needed two C-band radars and an S-band, and the C-bands were what we called skin trackers. They didn’t have a beacon that they pinged. They painted the vehicle and looked for a return signal. We had never skin-tracked ascents before. We had one S-band, and it was useless by itself, but with the two C-bands, it was supposed to give us a pretty good solution. Two C-bands alone, if they stayed locked on, would have done well for us.\\n\\n So we had a flight rule that said if we lost the S-band, we’d scrub the launch. We counted down, we started the APUs [auxiliary power units], and wouldn’t you know it, the S-band tracking station went down, and after arguing and arguing and arguing for years that we needed the two plus the one, I said, “Let’s go without the S-band,” and we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you feel that it would be okay to do that at that point, since, as you said, you’d been arguing—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 45.033885607778956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much kept the same structure. The systems guys changed, because the systems were different. The trajectory guys, we kept on doing what we’d been doing since day one. The main engines were an added complication that we didn���t have on Apollo. The F-1 engines, the engines on the Saturn V were pretty straightforward, but there was a lot of thrust variations that could take place on the Shuttle engines that would affect the trajectory and what you do. Also, on Apollo, if you ever got into trouble, you could always shut down the engines and separate and fall back in, land in the water. We had recovery ships all across the Atlantic.\\n\\n On the Shuttle, though, the plan was always to get the Shuttle back either to orbit or back to the runway, and so we had some—and guys still do have some—pretty complicated processors that would, as we went along in the trajectory, compute what the available abort modes were. We had to come up with the air-ground calls that would let the crew know what to do just in case we lost com [communication], and how to initiate the aborts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it still operate the same? When you talked about Apollo last time and the back room and the support, and we talked a little bit about the calculations that had to be done, in being almost ten years difference in time, and of course, technology had made some leaps by that time—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not many. [Laughs] Did you still have that same relationship with the back room and those calculations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had those guys down in the first floor, and they would run the computers, and they’d make the inputs for us. We didn’t get to the point that every trajectory operator had a keyboard and can control his own computations. That didn’t happen till after—well, it didn’t happen till midway through the Shuttle program, probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Around that time, you moved into training to be a Flight Director. Can you talk for a minute about what that training involves, and how you came to the decision you wanted to do that, or if you were asked to do that? Just some of the circumstances surrounding that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 50.636692183311595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was SolarMax, which was STS-41 Charlie [41-C], and it was 41 Charlie because nobody wanted to call it its numerical number. It was STS-13, and so those superstitious people changed the whole Shuttle numbering plan to avoid having an STS-13."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s go back for just a moment and talk about, as you mentioned, your first mission as a Flight Director was STS-6, and it was the maiden voyage of the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n . What are your memories of that flight and in this position for the first time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It felt good. We did the count maybe three or four times. We had a hydrogen leak problems on the vehicle, if I remember, and it took a while to get the vehicle tight enough that we could fly it. Aside from that, like most of the ascents, it was benign. You do all the training and training and training, and you’re prepared for all these contingency situations, and you get there and you fly a nominal, and it’s almost like magic. Most of them are like that. Some aren’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During Apollo and Skylab, Apollo-Soyuz, you were used to dealing with a relatively small crew, two or three people at the most. Then with Shuttle more people were flying. Did that affect anything in the Control Room or as far as dealing with more people or on the simulations or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. Not really. We dealt with the pilot, copilot, and one MS [Mission Specialist], and they were the flight crew we dealt with. They operated as a unit, and we treated them as a unit. We never said, “CDR [Commander], go do this,” or PLT [pilot]. The call was to the crew, and they did their own work management on board, so no, the crew size didn’t affect us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to know the crews as well as you did during Apollo time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 39.497835305459, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not about that. Not about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier a DoD [Department of Defense] mission. You said that was the first rendezvous. Can you talk about the differences in preparing for a DoD mission and a normal mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were classified. That was primarily the difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As far as running the simulations and everything, it was just more—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, except that the simulations were as classified as anything on the flight, and the room was closed, and the procedures were confidential or secret or more. You dealt with a smaller bunch of people, because just “need to know” and classification limitations. We had a very good relationship with the people we dealt with in the Air Force. They all acknowledged that the service they got was better than they expected, and they all wanted to continue it. You know, there’s been a lot of talk, the Air Force versus NASA. A different bunch of people in the Air Force. Anybody we touched, we had super dealings with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About this time, you were working as a Lead Flight Director. Can you talk for a moment about what the determining factors were, choosing a Lead Flight Director for flights? Was it depending on what the flight was supposed to be doing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 40.55315033939888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were classified. That was primarily the difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As far as running the simulations and everything, it was just more—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, except that the simulations were as classified as anything on the flight, and the room was closed, and the procedures were confidential or secret or more. You dealt with a smaller bunch of people, because just “need to know” and classification limitations. We had a very good relationship with the people we dealt with in the Air Force. They all acknowledged that the service they got was better than they expected, and they all wanted to continue it. You know, there’s been a lot of talk, the Air Force versus NASA. A different bunch of people in the Air Force. Anybody we touched, we had super dealings with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About this time, you were working as a Lead Flight Director. Can you talk for a moment about what the determining factors were, choosing a Lead Flight Director for flights? Was it depending on what the flight was supposed to be doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was one group that was primarily ascents and entries, and that’s probably the biggest time-critical—but they were fixed procedures that you’d tweak every flight, but pretty much the same old stuff. Lead Flight Director would coordinate a totally different mission every time we went, be it a rendezvous, a Spacelab, and would be required to coordinate three shifts of activity over a seven- to ten-day mission, and was responsible for mission success for that mission. So it was a different set of talents. It was almost a different job. And you get picked for what assignment you had, based on what your background was. [STS] 41-C was the first real big rendezvous flight, and I did all the rendezvous work, and so I got the lead. Then I got into the satellite repair part of it, and having done all that, [STS] 51-I became a natural, and so I picked that assignment up. Other guys specialized in Air Force missions, because they had the contacts with the DoD and the right clearances and knew the right people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any certain criteria for choosing your team for any given flight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 48.95450659185047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was one group that was primarily ascents and entries, and that’s probably the biggest time-critical—but they were fixed procedures that you’d tweak every flight, but pretty much the same old stuff. Lead Flight Director would coordinate a totally different mission every time we went, be it a rendezvous, a Spacelab, and would be required to coordinate three shifts of activity over a seven- to ten-day mission, and was responsible for mission success for that mission. So it was a different set of talents. It was almost a different job. And you get picked for what assignment you had, based on what your background was. [STS] 41-C was the first real big rendezvous flight, and I did all the rendezvous work, and so I got the lead. Then I got into the satellite repair part of it, and having done all that, [STS] 51-I became a natural, and so I picked that assignment up. Other guys specialized in Air Force missions, because they had the contacts with the DoD and the right clearances and knew the right people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any certain criteria for choosing your team for any given flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. You had veto authority, but pretty much left it to the organizations to put their best people in whatever shifts they were put on. Manning was left to the organizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The next mission that I have that you worked on was [STS] 61-C."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bill [Clarens William] Nelson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any specific memories about that mission?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.396207542634855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, constantly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I always enjoyed it. I had some big ones, like when Pinky Nelson bounced off, it was like flies on something, and the Press Briefing Room filled up, and they didn’t think we’d be able to pull it off. They could smell the kill. Generally they weren’t big deals, and we had some training on how to talk to the press."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that coordinated through PAO [NASA Public Affairs Office]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, sort of. I forget the guys who gave the course. They were ABC [American Broadcasting Corporation] execs. As a matter of fact, they were so good, they were leaving us to go to Johnson & Johnson, and teach Johnson & Johnson how to put a pretty face on the Tylenol [acetaminophen] problem [product tampering in 1982]. We got into that after there were a couple of incidents where some of our guys didn’t quite answer questions correctly and got into some trouble with the press."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to take a break for a minute?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 39.329119491816506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I always enjoyed it. I had some big ones, like when Pinky Nelson bounced off, it was like flies on something, and the Press Briefing Room filled up, and they didn’t think we’d be able to pull it off. They could smell the kill. Generally they weren’t big deals, and we had some training on how to talk to the press."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that coordinated through PAO [NASA Public Affairs Office]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, sort of. I forget the guys who gave the course. They were ABC [American Broadcasting Corporation] execs. As a matter of fact, they were so good, they were leaving us to go to Johnson & Johnson, and teach Johnson & Johnson how to put a pretty face on the Tylenol [acetaminophen] problem [product tampering in 1982]. We got into that after there were a couple of incidents where some of our guys didn’t quite answer questions correctly and got into some trouble with the press."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to take a break for a minute?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we left off, we were talking about STS 61-C and that flight. After 61-C landed in January, ten days later the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident occurred. If you would, please share your memories of that with us."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.44203550040619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We secured the room; nobody in or out. We secured the communications. We got everybody getting their data together and writing incident reports. We worked for a long time trying to get the search and rescue guys to enter the area. They were worried that there was debris that was falling for an hour after the accident, and they didn’t want the choppers anywheres near it, which was understandable in the light of day, but at the time was disconcerting, that we could have had guys out in the water and they didn’t want to get close to them. That’s pretty much what we did. Released the operators. Was very calm, cool, and collected; went home and completely broke down. It was a rough day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the days following—of course, you mentioned the press conference—what were your duties immediately following the accident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None. None."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any involvement with Sally Ride’s report [Leadership and America's Future in Space]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By October 1987, you became Chief of the Safety Division."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 34.93559500045132, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "None. None."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any involvement with Sally Ride’s report [Leadership and America's Future in Space]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By October 1987, you became Chief of the Safety Division."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to move on to that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 27.706216667168135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By October 1987, you became Chief of the Safety Division."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to move on to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I decided, for a lot of reasons, that I’d had all the fun I wanted to have in the Control Room. I went on and I did a couple of months, a few months, half a year—who knows; something like that—working a lunar exploration group, and then I didn’t like that and needed something more challenging. [Charles F.] Charlie Bolden [Jr.] was running the Safety Division. I took over from Charlie.\\n\\n Charlie did people, and then I brought engineering rigor in, and we developed a pretty good safety operation, and we developed a Shuttle Safety Review Board. We reviewed the hazard reports, not only for the Orbiter, but for each of the other elements, and it took us about a year. We visited all the sites. We had membership from all the sites. I probably learned more about the vehicle in that year or two than at any other time in my career. It was a great education.\\n\\n But after doing safety for two years, I got a call. I had a buddy at KSC who was my counterpart. He came in at about the same time I did, and he had a strong engineering background and understood they needed safety guys, but why me, Lord? So he called one day, and he says, “We’ve got a problem.”\\n\\n I said, “What’s the problem, Bob?”\\n\\n He says, “You know, if we stay on this job much longer, we’re going to have to read the manuals.”\\n\\n And I said, “Good put.” So I forget who I let it be known that I was ready to get out. I left there and went to the Shuttle Program, working for [Leonard S.] Nicholson. I did that for a while, and it got me into program management, and I learned a lot in that that year, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to share with us some of the things you learned?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.55588579053214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did some of that. When [Daniel S.] Dan Goldin came in, among other things he put together these study groups to how NASA would team with Department of Energy on about ten different areas. I was given cochairmanship with a guy from DOE, and we ran a board on nuclear power and propulsion, something I knew absolutely nothing about, but if you surround yourself with the right number of Ph.D.’s and nuclear physicists. We did that and put together what I think is still a dynamite piece of paper; it was about fifty pages in length. And Goldin never read it, because he said it was too thick. So there you are. Still a dynamite piece of paper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it working with the Department of Energy and working with another agency like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a very good relationship, very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in the D.C. area the whole time, or did you commute back and forth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Commuted. Commuted. I commuted when I was in D.C. all the time, which wasn’t a bad deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, in the early ‘90s, you moved to Engineering Directorate?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.173206433924598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a very good relationship, very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in the D.C. area the whole time, or did you commute back and forth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Commuted. Commuted. I commuted when I was in D.C. all the time, which wasn’t a bad deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, in the early ‘90s, you moved to Engineering Directorate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s after Exploration went out of business. I needed a place to escape to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your role in that directorate?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.414673815471774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Commuted. Commuted. I commuted when I was in D.C. all the time, which wasn’t a bad deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, in the early ‘90s, you moved to Engineering Directorate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s after Exploration went out of business. I needed a place to escape to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your role in that directorate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a Technology Group, and it was ahead of its time—or behind its time—and it wasn’t what I wanted to do. So I sat there and waited for the next time George came to call. Eventually he came, and he said, “We need an Orbiter Project Manager.” I did that for a few years. That was an amazingly good feeling, owning four Shuttles. Going down to the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] and visiting them and actually feeling ownership and responsibility for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the duties that you had in that position?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.460748683857526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s after Exploration went out of business. I needed a place to escape to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your role in that directorate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a Technology Group, and it was ahead of its time—or behind its time—and it wasn’t what I wanted to do. So I sat there and waited for the next time George came to call. Eventually he came, and he said, “We need an Orbiter Project Manager.” I did that for a few years. That was an amazingly good feeling, owning four Shuttles. Going down to the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] and visiting them and actually feeling ownership and responsibility for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the duties that you had in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was technical, schedule, and budget for the entire Orbiter fleet, and a very close working relationship with our contractor, which was North American Rockwell [Corporation], and then later, Rockwell. Very good friendships; very close relationships with the guys at the Cape, contractor guys, government guys. A very fulfilling position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the move after that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.400831870952807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a Technology Group, and it was ahead of its time—or behind its time—and it wasn’t what I wanted to do. So I sat there and waited for the next time George came to call. Eventually he came, and he said, “We need an Orbiter Project Manager.” I did that for a few years. That was an amazingly good feeling, owning four Shuttles. Going down to the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] and visiting them and actually feeling ownership and responsibility for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the duties that you had in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was technical, schedule, and budget for the entire Orbiter fleet, and a very close working relationship with our contractor, which was North American Rockwell [Corporation], and then later, Rockwell. Very good friendships; very close relationships with the guys at the Cape, contractor guys, government guys. A very fulfilling position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the move after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "George came to see me again. Yes, I probably antagonized a lot of people, because I was dead opposed to the [Team] USA Concept [for Global Space Commerce] and the effects it would have on the Johnson workforce. I was right, but they decided it was time to put me somewheres else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What concerns did you have?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.445368745503119, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was technical, schedule, and budget for the entire Orbiter fleet, and a very close working relationship with our contractor, which was North American Rockwell [Corporation], and then later, Rockwell. Very good friendships; very close relationships with the guys at the Cape, contractor guys, government guys. A very fulfilling position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the move after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "George came to see me again. Yes, I probably antagonized a lot of people, because I was dead opposed to the [Team] USA Concept [for Global Space Commerce] and the effects it would have on the Johnson workforce. I was right, but they decided it was time to put me somewheres else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What concerns did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we’d turn the technical responsibility for Shuttle engineering over to a contractor, and they might or might not have been able to assume those responsibilities. We did great damage to the NASA workforce, and they couldn’t assume those responsibilities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went on to work as Deputy Manager for Technical Development for the ISS [International Space Station] Program."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.605965272781242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "George came to see me again. Yes, I probably antagonized a lot of people, because I was dead opposed to the [Team] USA Concept [for Global Space Commerce] and the effects it would have on the Johnson workforce. I was right, but they decided it was time to put me somewheres else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What concerns did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we’d turn the technical responsibility for Shuttle engineering over to a contractor, and they might or might not have been able to assume those responsibilities. We did great damage to the NASA workforce, and they couldn’t assume those responsibilities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went on to work as Deputy Manager for Technical Development for the ISS [International Space Station] Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to talk about that for a moment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.895516969756935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we’d turn the technical responsibility for Shuttle engineering over to a contractor, and they might or might not have been able to assume those responsibilities. We did great damage to the NASA workforce, and they couldn’t assume those responsibilities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went on to work as Deputy Manager for Technical Development for the ISS [International Space Station] Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to talk about that for a moment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was great fun. George knew that that station was in deep, serious trouble, and he asked me to go over and see what I could do. So I went over and did things and made things happen, and we got a pretty good Space Station up there. So I feel very proud of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How closely did you work with the contractors that were involved in that program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.328352188618815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to talk about that for a moment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was great fun. George knew that that station was in deep, serious trouble, and he asked me to go over and see what I could do. So I went over and did things and made things happen, and we got a pretty good Space Station up there. So I feel very proud of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How closely did you work with the contractors that were involved in that program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very closely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe some of the issues that you worked on or encountered during that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.809280209576462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was great fun. George knew that that station was in deep, serious trouble, and he asked me to go over and see what I could do. So I went over and did things and made things happen, and we got a pretty good Space Station up there. So I feel very proud of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How closely did you work with the contractors that were involved in that program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very closely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe some of the issues that you worked on or encountered during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We worked on every piece of hardware, on the node, on the lab, solar arrays, the ECLS system, Environmental [Control and Life Support] System, com system. I was able to go down the Cape and climb in the lab before it launched; climbed in the node before it launched, and was able to just do 360s, and wherever you looked, there was a story about that piece of hardware or that piece of hardware. It all came together, and it’s working far beyond anybody’s expectations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk for a minute about working with the international partners?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 12.4817561493316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wonderful. Wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also received some prestigious awards for your work on Space Station, the Distinguished Service Medal for NASA, the Stellar Award for the Rotary, and a Silver Snoopy [Award] in 2000. Would you like to talk about any of those awards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None of them had any money. [laughter] So I got a nice piece of rock for the Stellar Award. That was nice. That was nice. Distinguished Service Medal, that’s usually an end-of-your-career award, and I think people gave it to me hoping it would be. And the Silver Snoopy wasn’t—I don’t know. But that’s nice to have, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From that position you moved into your role as Chief Engineer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe what you do in that position?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.090840165924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "None of them had any money. [laughter] So I got a nice piece of rock for the Stellar Award. That was nice. That was nice. Distinguished Service Medal, that’s usually an end-of-your-career award, and I think people gave it to me hoping it would be. And the Silver Snoopy wasn’t—I don’t know. But that’s nice to have, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From that position you moved into your role as Chief Engineer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe what you do in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I advise the Center Director, primarily. I have a group that’s a Systems Management Group that does cost and schedule analysis and systems engineering support for the center. I have a group that does the ISO [International Organization for Standardization] support for the center. As a result of the CAIB [\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n Accident Investigation Board], there was a move to get what they called independent technical authority going. We waited for [NASA] Headquarters and waited for Headquarters.\\n\\n We implemented an Independent Technical Authority [ITA] organization. I have about seven engineers working there, all highly talented people, and they’re dispersed to the programs in the onsite organizations, and we have signature authority on all Shuttle and Station change paper, as a result of this ITA. We’re still fighting Headquarters on how it ought to be done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 2002, Director [Jefferson D.] Howell [Jr.] established the Engineering Review Board."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.76760018436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe what you do in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I advise the Center Director, primarily. I have a group that’s a Systems Management Group that does cost and schedule analysis and systems engineering support for the center. I have a group that does the ISO [International Organization for Standardization] support for the center. As a result of the CAIB [\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n Accident Investigation Board], there was a move to get what they called independent technical authority going. We waited for [NASA] Headquarters and waited for Headquarters.\\n\\n We implemented an Independent Technical Authority [ITA] organization. I have about seven engineers working there, all highly talented people, and they’re dispersed to the programs in the onsite organizations, and we have signature authority on all Shuttle and Station change paper, as a result of this ITA. We’re still fighting Headquarters on how it ought to be done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 2002, Director [Jefferson D.] Howell [Jr.] established the Engineering Review Board."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and that’s something I use to technically review whatever I feel needs to be looked at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is your favorite part of this job?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.5195557604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I advise the Center Director, primarily. I have a group that’s a Systems Management Group that does cost and schedule analysis and systems engineering support for the center. I have a group that does the ISO [International Organization for Standardization] support for the center. As a result of the CAIB [\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n Accident Investigation Board], there was a move to get what they called independent technical authority going. We waited for [NASA] Headquarters and waited for Headquarters.\\n\\n We implemented an Independent Technical Authority [ITA] organization. I have about seven engineers working there, all highly talented people, and they’re dispersed to the programs in the onsite organizations, and we have signature authority on all Shuttle and Station change paper, as a result of this ITA. We’re still fighting Headquarters on how it ought to be done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 2002, Director [Jefferson D.] Howell [Jr.] established the Engineering Review Board."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and that’s something I use to technically review whatever I feel needs to be looked at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is your favorite part of this job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which job?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The one you have currently."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.355061956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and that’s something I use to technically review whatever I feel needs to be looked at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is your favorite part of this job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which job?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The one you have currently."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting ready to retire. Trying like hell to do that. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n accident happened while you were still working. What were you doing that moment, and what are your memories of the\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n ?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.950068840000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which job?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The one you have currently."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting ready to retire. Trying like hell to do that. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n accident happened while you were still working. What were you doing that moment, and what are your memories of the\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n ?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was up in the [JSC] Center Director’s viewing room. We heard the com outages. At first, didn’t think much of it, and then the Flight Dynamics guys reported failure to lock on with the C-bands. Remember, the C-bands are skin trackers, and they don’t require an active system, and the fact they couldn’t lock on said nothing was there. Another bad day. Although, personally, I wasn’t as close to this crew as I was to the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n guys, but it’s been tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In light of your experience going through\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n in the Control Room, were you able to provide any sort of guidance or support for anyone?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.611187600000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting ready to retire. Trying like hell to do that. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n accident happened while you were still working. What were you doing that moment, and what are your memories of the\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n ?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was up in the [JSC] Center Director’s viewing room. We heard the com outages. At first, didn’t think much of it, and then the Flight Dynamics guys reported failure to lock on with the C-bands. Remember, the C-bands are skin trackers, and they don’t require an active system, and the fact they couldn’t lock on said nothing was there. Another bad day. Although, personally, I wasn’t as close to this crew as I was to the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n guys, but it’s been tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In light of your experience going through\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n in the Control Room, were you able to provide any sort of guidance or support for anyone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They did all the right things, and it was a different situation. It was a different situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in any of the recovery or the investigation?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.345764000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was up in the [JSC] Center Director’s viewing room. We heard the com outages. At first, didn’t think much of it, and then the Flight Dynamics guys reported failure to lock on with the C-bands. Remember, the C-bands are skin trackers, and they don’t require an active system, and the fact they couldn’t lock on said nothing was there. Another bad day. Although, personally, I wasn’t as close to this crew as I was to the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n guys, but it’s been tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In light of your experience going through\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n in the Control Room, were you able to provide any sort of guidance or support for anyone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They did all the right things, and it was a different situation. It was a different situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in any of the recovery or the investigation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peripherally. Peripherally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything you’d like to talk about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.16196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They did all the right things, and it was a different situation. It was a different situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in any of the recovery or the investigation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peripherally. Peripherally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything you’d like to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your career, since it’s run quite a few years, you’ve worked with a variety of different Directors and also NASA Administrators. Do you have any comments about any of their management styles or any of those people in particular?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.6244000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peripherally. Peripherally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything you’d like to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your career, since it’s run quite a few years, you’ve worked with a variety of different Directors and also NASA Administrators. Do you have any comments about any of their management styles or any of those people in particular?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kraft, he was probably the best. [Glynn S.] Lunney was a good man to work with. Worked with Crippen a lot, [Richard H.] Dick Truly. Good people. Dan Goldin, not so good. The current Administrator [Sean O’Keefe]—don’t tell anybody I said this—not so good. We’re lacking a leadership organization with a lot of space experience like we used to have, and it’s going to hurt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you consider your favorite position while you were here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9160000000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your career, since it’s run quite a few years, you’ve worked with a variety of different Directors and also NASA Administrators. Do you have any comments about any of their management styles or any of those people in particular?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kraft, he was probably the best. [Glynn S.] Lunney was a good man to work with. Worked with Crippen a lot, [Richard H.] Dick Truly. Good people. Dan Goldin, not so good. The current Administrator [Sean O’Keefe]—don’t tell anybody I said this—not so good. We’re lacking a leadership organization with a lot of space experience like we used to have, and it’s going to hurt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you consider your favorite position while you were here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Flight Director, Orbiter Project Manager, and the [International Space] Station job. I liked them all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which of these positions do you think were the most challenging?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.24, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kraft, he was probably the best. [Glynn S.] Lunney was a good man to work with. Worked with Crippen a lot, [Richard H.] Dick Truly. Good people. Dan Goldin, not so good. The current Administrator [Sean O’Keefe]—don’t tell anybody I said this—not so good. We’re lacking a leadership organization with a lot of space experience like we used to have, and it’s going to hurt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you consider your favorite position while you were here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Flight Director, Orbiter Project Manager, and the [International Space] Station job. I liked them all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which of these positions do you think were the most challenging?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Flight Director, Orbiter Project Manager, and the Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] I get the feeling you like to be challenged."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Flight Director, Orbiter Project Manager, and the [International Space] Station job. I liked them all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which of these positions do you think were the most challenging?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Flight Director, Orbiter Project Manager, and the Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] I get the feeling you like to be challenged."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you’d like to talk about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Flight Director, Orbiter Project Manager, and the Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] I get the feeling you like to be challenged."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you’d like to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My bicycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, talk about your bicycle. [Laughs]"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you’d like to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My bicycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, talk about your bicycle. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I ordered a bicycle about fifteen months ago—no, seventeen months ago—from a little mechanic in Chester, Connecticut, and when it comes, I told the Center Director seventeen months ago, I’m leaving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your plans for your retirement, other than riding your bicycle?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00232:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My bicycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, talk about your bicycle. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I ordered a bicycle about fifteen months ago—no, seventeen months ago—from a little mechanic in Chester, Connecticut, and when it comes, I told the Center Director seventeen months ago, I’m leaving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your plans for your retirement, other than riding your bicycle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m going to ride my bicycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you going to ride it anywhere, or is it just around here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00898:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 32.2786194438632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That makes sense. I came to Headquarters in February ’85 I believe it was, as a detailee from JPL. I got to sit in on a lot of the meetings. I saw it happen. Later on I participated in some of the EOS instrument panels. It just seemed to be the right way to plan something like that, to really broadly engage the community and take the time needed to work the issues, refine the questions, and really really get a solid plan together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your expectations after hearing [about the plan]? Like you mentioned you were young. As far as you knew, this was how all things were planned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not knowing that this was very different from how most things were put together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I can’t really comment if that was the first time a major program was planned like that, but it was certainly my first exposure to that kind of planning. I don’t know what my expectations were. At Headquarters you hear enough of the people talking strategy and worrying about politics. We were originally planning for the satellites in the EOS series to be deployed by the Space Shuttle and have them serviceable. Of course, after the Challenger [STS 51-L] accident, that all changed quite a lot. The politics of selling and securing the resources—you knew there were people who were worried about it. I guess because I didn’t know how big a challenge it was, I expected it to succeed. I thought the science was so compelling and that the community was so behind it that how could it not happen?\\n\\n From looking back now over the ups and downs, I realize that I probably would have been a lot more worried if I’d had this perspective then, but at the time it seemed like everything was positive, that there was just a lot that suggested it should succeed. In the international community the development of the IGBP was enormously exciting and supportive too. The other space programs were beginning to think about their contributions, and it just seemed like it should work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Giving those examples, what are some of the key elements or decisions, events that occurred that you believe provided that current direction and the correct direction for the Earth System Science?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.090220953076017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was definitely knowledgeable of the issues with the Hubble Telescope. One of the main lessons learned was that a system-level optical test was not done with Hubble, which would have caught the problem that existed with Hubble. From my point of view, it made the whole process of justifying the test and the amount of effort needed to do the test, because we had the Hubble experience. It was easier to justify that we needed a system-level test at Johnson to make sure that optically we would not have the same problem that Hubble had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Originally the test was supposed to be done up in Ohio at Plum Brook [Station at NASA Glenn Research Center, Cleveland]. Why did it get moved to JSC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t really involved in that decision process as far as switching locations or trading between locations. Our role was figuring out a way to make it work at Johnson, as well as Plum Brook, so that NASA could make that trade. Originally, at the time that trade was being made, the project required that the primary mirror be pointed downward for contamination reasons.\\n\\n We actually came up with an elaborate elevator scheme to make Johnson work [with the primary mirror facing downward]. The telescope was originally going to roll into the chamber with the primary mirror pointed down and then lifted up on an elevator inside the chamber so that we could test the primary mirror with equipment at the bottom of the chamber. Fortunately, later, the project was able to figure out a way to make it work with the primary mirror pointing up, which made the configuration at Johnson much easier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in the decision to move from a cup-down to a cup-up configuration?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was only involved in the way that we illustrated the obviousness that the test configuration was far more complicated with the mirror pointing down versus mirror pointing up. That incentivized the contamination control team to assess the risk of testing with the primary mirror up versus down and also looking at installing a clean-air utility in the facility down at Johnson to make that work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the potential contamination risk for having it faceup?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.100245503417796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t really involved in that decision process as far as switching locations or trading between locations. Our role was figuring out a way to make it work at Johnson, as well as Plum Brook, so that NASA could make that trade. Originally, at the time that trade was being made, the project required that the primary mirror be pointed downward for contamination reasons.\\n\\n We actually came up with an elaborate elevator scheme to make Johnson work [with the primary mirror facing downward]. The telescope was originally going to roll into the chamber with the primary mirror pointed down and then lifted up on an elevator inside the chamber so that we could test the primary mirror with equipment at the bottom of the chamber. Fortunately, later, the project was able to figure out a way to make it work with the primary mirror pointing up, which made the configuration at Johnson much easier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in the decision to move from a cup-down to a cup-up configuration?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was only involved in the way that we illustrated the obviousness that the test configuration was far more complicated with the mirror pointing down versus mirror pointing up. That incentivized the contamination control team to assess the risk of testing with the primary mirror up versus down and also looking at installing a clean-air utility in the facility down at Johnson to make that work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the potential contamination risk for having it faceup?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the simple principle that gravity acts on particles; particles tend to fall down towards the ground. If you have the mirror surface facing up, particles from above are more likely to come down and fall on top of the mirror surface. Whereas if you have the mirror surface facing downward, then particles will have a tendency to move away from the mirror."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you be able to clean the mirrors easily if particles had fallen on them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.33360611490866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was only involved in the way that we illustrated the obviousness that the test configuration was far more complicated with the mirror pointing down versus mirror pointing up. That incentivized the contamination control team to assess the risk of testing with the primary mirror up versus down and also looking at installing a clean-air utility in the facility down at Johnson to make that work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the potential contamination risk for having it faceup?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the simple principle that gravity acts on particles; particles tend to fall down towards the ground. If you have the mirror surface facing up, particles from above are more likely to come down and fall on top of the mirror surface. Whereas if you have the mirror surface facing downward, then particles will have a tendency to move away from the mirror."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you be able to clean the mirrors easily if particles had fallen on them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The project had developed a means to clean the mirror if necessary, but in general you want to minimize operations on the mirror as much as possible so you don’t risk any damage that would affect the imaging capability of the mirror."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t want a second potential Hubble, I suppose."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.815117905454066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the simple principle that gravity acts on particles; particles tend to fall down towards the ground. If you have the mirror surface facing up, particles from above are more likely to come down and fall on top of the mirror surface. Whereas if you have the mirror surface facing downward, then particles will have a tendency to move away from the mirror."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you be able to clean the mirrors easily if particles had fallen on them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The project had developed a means to clean the mirror if necessary, but in general you want to minimize operations on the mirror as much as possible so you don’t risk any damage that would affect the imaging capability of the mirror."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t want a second potential Hubble, I suppose."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You try and design the process so that the mirror doesn’t get dirty to begin with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You work for Harris [Corp.]. Can you talk about the role that Harris played in the test?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 24.239019894948964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The project had developed a means to clean the mirror if necessary, but in general you want to minimize operations on the mirror as much as possible so you don’t risk any damage that would affect the imaging capability of the mirror."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t want a second potential Hubble, I suppose."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You try and design the process so that the mirror doesn’t get dirty to begin with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You work for Harris [Corp.]. Can you talk about the role that Harris played in the test?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Harris had a fairly large role in the test. We were responsible for the optical test equipment. We were the lead role in the optical test equipment, as well as the mechanical equipment to hold the telescope for the optical test. We also designed and built the sunshield thermal simulator in the test and built a lot of the thermal test equipment that was in the test.\\n\\n I was the optical test director. A colleague of mine, Mark Waldman, and I were the day-to-day test planners throughout the main part of the test. We supplied a lot of the people who ran the test in the control room. We supplied most of the people and processes to integrate the telescope into the mechanical test equipment, to install it in the chamber for the test, and the thermal test equipment. We covered the logistics of items going in and out of that Johnson building for the test.\\n\\n So we played a fairly large role in that test. We also generated the drawing that Johnson used to understand what they needed to renovate in the chamber for the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand there hadn’t been a 3D [three-dimensional] model for the SESL [Space Environment Simulation Laboratory] before."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.003127537936233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We certainly had to think outside the box to [accomplish the goal while meeting] the [federal] restrictions [working] with international people. The rest of the challenges I think are typical of working with a broad group of smart, innovative people. I don’t think that was unusual compared to any large group of engineers and scientists and technicians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any recollections of the day the Webb finally arrived here in Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t actually in Houston when it arrived. I had been working with the hardware at [NASA] Goddard [Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland] previously. But when the hardware arrived at Johnson, I knew the clock started ticking on when everything had to be set for the test. We were very busy putting the final touches on our plans for the test at that point, but it was definitely a thrill to see years and years of development and planning end up with actual hardware showing up onsite. Basically a feeling of, “Here we go!”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you finally get a chance to make it down to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole process of transitioning the telescope from shipping to getting it installed in the chamber was about two months long, so I was down there for the second month. By that point, the integration team needed to coordinate with the test team. We needed to start checking out test equipment as it was getting installed. I was down there coordinating with that and getting the final procedures in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about the test itself? What were your hours like, what shifts did you normally work? Were there any memorable moments or events that took place over the course of the test? [Hurricane] Harvey obviously being one of them, but I wonder if there are others."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.294661694766397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That experience carried throughout the test whenever we were doing something for the first time and knew all the things that had to happen correctly to make that happen. Having that feeling of excitement and relief that it actually happened as planned and the hardware was in really good shape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned something I wanted to go back to. You said that there was some creativity involved in making all this work. Was there any creativity on your part as the test was ongoing, and an issue came up that you had to come up with a new plan on the fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were constantly optimizing. We had many things happening in parallel in order to meet the schedule of the test and get as much testing done as we could in the amount of time we had. There was a lot of time spent talking to the various experts there. As we found issues, you had to work around them and figure out alternative ways to make the test progress efficiently. But at the same time, you couldn’t be overly creative because there was a lot of thought going into the test. There was a lot of careful thought going into the test. You wanted to make sure you didn’t forget something or take any shortcuts. You had to maintain the integrity of the test, while also coming up with ways to either work around issues or ways to make things more efficient."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were on the operations team as you were doing the test?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. In the test room there were I would say easily 20 people in there, three shifts a day. That was just our test room. The facility [room] had about another five people, the instruments’ [room] had about another six or seven people. Plus some other experts just there in the background to help out, although the experts wouldn’t need to do three shifts. Let’s say 30 per shift, three shifts. It was about 90 people, plus some other managers and experts that were in the background, so about 100 people a day involved. There were more people than that involved, because we were rotating people on location to help keep bodies and minds fresh throughout the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Except for you, you got to stay for a very long time, you said."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.78109992509, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had the opportunity to go back and forth. Actually, personally, I was not critical for running the safety of the hardware since I was more involved in the optical testing, which was more optional from a safety point of view. I was staying at a hotel during that time. I could do what I can from the hotel, which is why I was one of the ones who was available to go scouting for food and road conditions for the people who did have to get into Building 32 to keep the hardware safe during the hurricane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a memorable event in the midst of this unique test, I’m sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was in a hotel that served breakfast. After a while they had to get creative with the breakfast, I remember one breakfast was just a bowl of salad for us to eat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A bowl of salad? Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just what you wanted for breakfast, that’s funny. You stayed until the last day of the test? Or when did you end up leaving Houston?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.3123332501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was in a hotel that served breakfast. After a while they had to get creative with the breakfast, I remember one breakfast was just a bowl of salad for us to eat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A bowl of salad? Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just what you wanted for breakfast, that’s funny. You stayed until the last day of the test? Or when did you end up leaving Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where we had breaks was when we were waiting for things to happen, when we were waiting for the telescope to evolve thermally to the point where we could run optical tests. I was there for most of the first six weeks of the test, I’ll say. I guess it was longer than that, I guess the first two months of the test. By then we were done with most of the optical testing. We were in a thermal balance mode, so at that point the telescope was just sitting and waiting to reach the point where it stopped changing thermally. The planning was not so complex day-to-day anymore. We weren’t doing things in parallel. We weren’t running both a thermal team and an optical team and other teams simultaneously at that point.\\n\\n It was mainly the thermal team running the show at that point, and the procedure was fairly straightforward. We were able to leave and just help out from the planning remotely. After that thermal balance was the warmup. We had basically just one optical test to run during the warmup, and a few other mechanisms tests, which was well-procedurized and somewhat simple, so we could [organize] that remotely as well. We also had test directors well-trained in the tools that we used to do the day-to-day planning, so other people could run the local day-to-day operations with confidence at that point. That helped us not have to be there for the full three-month duration of the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to go back down to Houston at all? Have you been back?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.791481389, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just what you wanted for breakfast, that’s funny. You stayed until the last day of the test? Or when did you end up leaving Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where we had breaks was when we were waiting for things to happen, when we were waiting for the telescope to evolve thermally to the point where we could run optical tests. I was there for most of the first six weeks of the test, I’ll say. I guess it was longer than that, I guess the first two months of the test. By then we were done with most of the optical testing. We were in a thermal balance mode, so at that point the telescope was just sitting and waiting to reach the point where it stopped changing thermally. The planning was not so complex day-to-day anymore. We weren’t doing things in parallel. We weren’t running both a thermal team and an optical team and other teams simultaneously at that point.\\n\\n It was mainly the thermal team running the show at that point, and the procedure was fairly straightforward. We were able to leave and just help out from the planning remotely. After that thermal balance was the warmup. We had basically just one optical test to run during the warmup, and a few other mechanisms tests, which was well-procedurized and somewhat simple, so we could [organize] that remotely as well. We also had test directors well-trained in the tools that we used to do the day-to-day planning, so other people could run the local day-to-day operations with confidence at that point. That helped us not have to be there for the full three-month duration of the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to go back down to Houston at all? Have you been back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually not. Because the data reviews that we had following the test were not at Houston. So no, I didn’t need to go back. I actually moved on to another project as soon as I returned to Harris. I had a whole weekend off before I had to hit the ground running on another project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another telescope project?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.3238682100000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where we had breaks was when we were waiting for things to happen, when we were waiting for the telescope to evolve thermally to the point where we could run optical tests. I was there for most of the first six weeks of the test, I’ll say. I guess it was longer than that, I guess the first two months of the test. By then we were done with most of the optical testing. We were in a thermal balance mode, so at that point the telescope was just sitting and waiting to reach the point where it stopped changing thermally. The planning was not so complex day-to-day anymore. We weren’t doing things in parallel. We weren’t running both a thermal team and an optical team and other teams simultaneously at that point.\\n\\n It was mainly the thermal team running the show at that point, and the procedure was fairly straightforward. We were able to leave and just help out from the planning remotely. After that thermal balance was the warmup. We had basically just one optical test to run during the warmup, and a few other mechanisms tests, which was well-procedurized and somewhat simple, so we could [organize] that remotely as well. We also had test directors well-trained in the tools that we used to do the day-to-day planning, so other people could run the local day-to-day operations with confidence at that point. That helped us not have to be there for the full three-month duration of the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to go back down to Houston at all? Have you been back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually not. Because the data reviews that we had following the test were not at Houston. So no, I didn’t need to go back. I actually moved on to another project as soon as I returned to Harris. I had a whole weekend off before I had to hit the ground running on another project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another telescope project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another NASA telescope project, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s exciting. I wonder, if you could look back over the time you were working on this test—even before there was a pathfinder or a telescope at the SESL—what your biggest challenge was."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.0661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would guess my most significant was organizing the technical team to be ready by the time the test started and also to be prepared so that everyone was comfortable and efficient while we ran the test. I think my contribution was my organizational capabilities leading up to the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any important lessons learned from the test that you think would be important for others to consider when they are working on tests of future space telescopes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was definitely noticeable, the advantage we had of being well-planned for the test. Never underestimate the value of being well-planned heading into the test and also well practiced heading into the test. It was clear that the test was a success because of all the practice that we had and all the planning that we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you wanted to talk about? Any of your experiences, things that we might have not covered or overlooked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t think of anything big to add on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we go, I did want to ask you—are there other people you think that we should consider talking to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 5.629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was definitely noticeable, the advantage we had of being well-planned for the test. Never underestimate the value of being well-planned heading into the test and also well practiced heading into the test. It was clear that the test was a success because of all the practice that we had and all the planning that we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you wanted to talk about? Any of your experiences, things that we might have not covered or overlooked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t think of anything big to add on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we go, I did want to ask you—are there other people you think that we should consider talking to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mark Waldman would be a good one if he wasn’t on your list."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think his name is on the list, no."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t think of anything big to add on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we go, I did want to ask you—are there other people you think that we should consider talking to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mark Waldman would be a good one if he wasn’t on your list."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think his name is on the list, no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was more involved with the test side. I certainly put the [very] early conceptual [order of events] together for integrating the telescope into the chamber and de-integrating the telescope coming out of the chamber. But there [was a large team that organized and detailed that operation. There are] people much closer to that day-to-day effort, which was also a very—I won’t say heroic effort, but it was a lot of hard work as well.\\n\\n One person you could talk to is Tom [Thomas R.] Scorse, who’s also here at Harris. Ed [Edward L.] Shade may be another person, who’s at Goddard. I don’t know if Carl [A.] Reis was on your list, I’m sure he has stories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "His name doesn’t sound familiar. Tom Scorse, we have invited him."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mark Waldman would be a good one if he wasn’t on your list."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think his name is on the list, no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was more involved with the test side. I certainly put the [very] early conceptual [order of events] together for integrating the telescope into the chamber and de-integrating the telescope coming out of the chamber. But there [was a large team that organized and detailed that operation. There are] people much closer to that day-to-day effort, which was also a very—I won’t say heroic effort, but it was a lot of hard work as well.\\n\\n One person you could talk to is Tom [Thomas R.] Scorse, who’s also here at Harris. Ed [Edward L.] Shade may be another person, who’s at Goddard. I don’t know if Carl [A.] Reis was on your list, I’m sure he has stories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "His name doesn’t sound familiar. Tom Scorse, we have invited him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Carl Reis was the lead test director for the test. He works for Goddard now, but he used to work for Johnson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, thank you very much for your time today. I appreciate you letting us run over a little bit this morning."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00607:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was more involved with the test side. I certainly put the [very] early conceptual [order of events] together for integrating the telescope into the chamber and de-integrating the telescope coming out of the chamber. But there [was a large team that organized and detailed that operation. There are] people much closer to that day-to-day effort, which was also a very—I won’t say heroic effort, but it was a lot of hard work as well.\\n\\n One person you could talk to is Tom [Thomas R.] Scorse, who’s also here at Harris. Ed [Edward L.] Shade may be another person, who’s at Goddard. I don’t know if Carl [A.] Reis was on your list, I’m sure he has stories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "His name doesn’t sound familiar. Tom Scorse, we have invited him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Carl Reis was the lead test director for the test. He works for Goddard now, but he used to work for Johnson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, thank you very much for your time today. I appreciate you letting us run over a little bit this morning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have a great weekend and thank you again. Enjoy your next telescope project."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:0", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.92520810134657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bill Seibert, may I help you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hi, this is Rebecca Watford."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, hi. How are you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good, you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm okay. I'm going to close my office door and put you on speaker phone, is that all right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir, and I'm recording the phone call as you do it."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:4", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 46.82124456956367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm okay. I'm going to close my office door and put you on speaker phone, is that all right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir, and I'm recording the phone call as you do it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, thank you. Hold on. Hi, can you hear me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can hear you, let me close the door. Hello everybody [to people outside. Closes door and returns]. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Let me do the metadata really quick, and then we can start."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:6", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 52.02360507729296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, thank you. Hold on. Hi, can you hear me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can hear you, let me close the door. Hello everybody [to people outside. Closes door and returns]. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Let me do the metadata really quick, and then we can start."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Today is Friday, September 22nd, 2017. On the phone is William SAY-bert—"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:8", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 57.804005641436625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can hear you, let me close the door. Hello everybody [to people outside. Closes door and returns]. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Let me do the metadata really quick, and then we can start."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Today is Friday, September 22nd, 2017. On the phone is William SAY-bert—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] SIGH-bert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—oh, Seibert, what was it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:10", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 64.22667293492958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Today is Friday, September 22nd, 2017. On the phone is William SAY-bert—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] SIGH-bert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—oh, Seibert, what was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seibert, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Who is a Senior Archivist and Chief of Archival Operations at the National Archives at St. Louis."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:12", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 71.36296992769954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] SIGH-bert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—oh, Seibert, what was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seibert, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Who is a Senior Archivist and Chief of Archival Operations at the National Archives at St. Louis."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My name is Rebecca Watford. I am an Intern in the History Office at the National Archives in Washington, D.C. So, Mr. Seibert, what is your background prior to working at the National Archives?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:14", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 68.18107769744394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seibert, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Who is a Senior Archivist and Chief of Archival Operations at the National Archives at St. Louis."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My name is Rebecca Watford. I am an Intern in the History Office at the National Archives in Washington, D.C. So, Mr. Seibert, what is your background prior to working at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came to work at the Archives a few years after I finished my academic work. I returned to St. Louis in 1975 and for a brief time was involved in a number of projects having to do with architectural history here in the St. Louis area. Also spent a year or so in a family business, but then in 1978 I took what was then known as the PACE Exam, which was an examination for the civil service. And at some point after that, I think it was in '77 or '78 that I took that exam, and then in '78 I was contacted by the National Archives and Records Service, as it then was, here in St. Louis and offered a job at the National Personnel Records Center. So since 1978 I have been employed by the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So what do you do at the National Archives? What is your job?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:16", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 38, "return_to_go": 73.5345307749377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My name is Rebecca Watford. I am an Intern in the History Office at the National Archives in Washington, D.C. So, Mr. Seibert, what is your background prior to working at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came to work at the Archives a few years after I finished my academic work. I returned to St. Louis in 1975 and for a brief time was involved in a number of projects having to do with architectural history here in the St. Louis area. Also spent a year or so in a family business, but then in 1978 I took what was then known as the PACE Exam, which was an examination for the civil service. And at some point after that, I think it was in '77 or '78 that I took that exam, and then in '78 I was contacted by the National Archives and Records Service, as it then was, here in St. Louis and offered a job at the National Personnel Records Center. So since 1978 I have been employed by the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So what do you do at the National Archives? What is your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I am the Chief of Archival Operations at the National Archives at St. Louis, which is a field location of the Office of Records Services, as it's currently organized. And we hold the accessioned records of … Basically our collection is unique, in that it's a national collection, it is not as in the other field locations, it is not a regional collection of federal records but it's a national collection. And they really are the personal data records held by the National Archives and created by the Federal government. In other words, records about people rather than about government offices and organizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me about the programs that you've worked on at the National Archives?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:24", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 49.715791457000016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—long were you at the Archives in number of years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't hear the first part of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I was just asking—I said you've already said when you started, I just need to know when, the number of years you've been doing that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Oh, yeah, well from 1978 to 2017 … is… hmmmmm… that would be 39 years. That plus my military service and accumulated sick leave and so forth means that I've ended up with 43 years, a little over 43 years of creditable federal civil service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do in the military?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:26", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.68421273000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't hear the first part of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I was just asking—I said you've already said when you started, I just need to know when, the number of years you've been doing that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Oh, yeah, well from 1978 to 2017 … is… hmmmmm… that would be 39 years. That plus my military service and accumulated sick leave and so forth means that I've ended up with 43 years, a little over 43 years of creditable federal civil service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do in the military?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the Army. I was drafted during the Vietnam period. I had been in graduate school at Oxford University in the United Kingdom, and, but I was in the Vietnam draft. So then I had to—living overseas, a lot of us that were there had to make the decision as to whether we would stay or go back and participate in a war that we did not believe in. So my sort of—I felt that the long-range thing to do would be to return and to serve. So I was in the Army from 1969 through the spring of 1972. I was part of the—President Nixon after his opening to China began a major reduction in force in the military, and those of us who were due to separate in less than a year were given an early out. So I served all of 2½ years and then was discharged in April of 1972, and fortunately I was able to … the organization that provided the scholarship that I was on at the University of Oxford when I left in '69, they said they would hold my scholarship and I was welcome to return, so in April of '72 I returned to the United Kingdom and continued to study there. Finishing up in 1974, late '74 and returning to my home in St. Louis in 1975."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like your military background served you well in working for the Archives in St. Louis?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:34", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 55.51930000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That was interesting. They felt when they established the Preservation Program in 2000 that they wanted somebody to initially head it up at the beginning who understood the records. And then the way it worked out is I was selected as the Preservation Officer but was able to select two outstanding records conservators to work with me, and actually one of those people succeeded me as the Preservation Officer here, Marta O'Neill, who has an amazing background in preservation as well as in archives. So they wanted somebody who had a deep background in the records and knew the condition of the records and would be able to prioritize the work. And so that's why, I think, why I applied for the job and why I was selected. But my major interest and background, of course, was in archives and in history as opposed to preservation and conservation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you initially apply to work at the Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because my academic background and my greatest interest is in history. I really did not, never desired to be a teacher. So really, the other major way to work in history is to work with the primary sources. And that's of course what archives is, what archivists do. They work to identify and make accessible historical records. So that's what appealed to me about archives and certainly the National Archives. Which is, you know, the professional leader in this country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you've learned a lot from being in the archives, for being there for 39 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my goodness, tremendous amount, yeah. You really learn a lot about the history of the United States Government and all of the functions that the government performs, and it's fascinating work, and you learn something every day, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some things that you've learned that have surprised you over the years from working at the Archives?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:36", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 34, "return_to_go": 60.577000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because my academic background and my greatest interest is in history. I really did not, never desired to be a teacher. So really, the other major way to work in history is to work with the primary sources. And that's of course what archives is, what archivists do. They work to identify and make accessible historical records. So that's what appealed to me about archives and certainly the National Archives. Which is, you know, the professional leader in this country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you've learned a lot from being in the archives, for being there for 39 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my goodness, tremendous amount, yeah. You really learn a lot about the history of the United States Government and all of the functions that the government performs, and it's fascinating work, and you learn something every day, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some things that you've learned that have surprised you over the years from working at the Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Well, I would say, understanding the complexity of bureaucracies, both of military and civilian bureaucracies. And how they evolved and developed has been pretty … a pretty amazing learning experience. If you want to know what I think are the most significant activities that I've been involved in over these years, I can name four of them [Laughing] right off the bat. If that would be of interest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go ahead, go for it."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, tremendous. It's been—that's, you know, why I stayed as long as I have, because the work is fascinating, it's very rewarding. As someone who loves history and understands the importance of history, archives are the foundation of historical research. And without archives, history cannot be served. So it's been a wonderful, wonderful career. Wouldn't change it for anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have anything else you want to add to your interview?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. Can't think of anything at the moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Is there anything you need me to edit out of this interview at some point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so, but I mean would I be able to listen to it? You know I—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Yeah, I can send it to you."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. Can't think of anything at the moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Is there anything you need me to edit out of this interview at some point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so, but I mean would I be able to listen to it? You know I—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Yeah, I can send it to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and I can let you know. No, I don't think—I don't think so. I think I was accurate in what I said, but it would be nice to be able to listen to it and verify that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir, once the recording came out, we'll—I should be able to send it to you."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so, but I mean would I be able to listen to it? You know I—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Yeah, I can send it to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and I can let you know. No, I don't think—I don't think so. I think I was accurate in what I said, but it would be nice to be able to listen to it and verify that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir, once the recording came out, we'll—I should be able to send it to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to let you know, nothing will be put online or released to anyone in the public for probably about five years."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and I can let you know. No, I don't think—I don't think so. I think I was accurate in what I said, but it would be nice to be able to listen to it and verify that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir, once the recording came out, we'll—I should be able to send it to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to let you know, nothing will be put online or released to anyone in the public for probably about five years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have plenty of time to make your edits if need be."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to let you know, nothing will be put online or released to anyone in the public for probably about five years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have plenty of time to make your edits if need be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alright, well thank you for letting me interview you for our Oral History Project."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00054:60", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have plenty of time to make your edits if need be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alright, well thank you for letting me interview you for our Oral History Project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Alrighty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And thank you so much for talking to me."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00698:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 39.573366574656994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was not. I did the security checks, and it looked like I was going to be part of the crew, but when they decided they were only going to do one leg that eliminated me. They didn’t need a third FE to do a crew swap wherever they were going to stop at, so no, I wasn’t involved. I was helping for the training up to that point, but when it came time to fly the mission, no, I didn’t do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In August there was actually a formation of the SCAs flying together out at Edwards, which seems to be very unusual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Especially that big of an airplane. It was quite a moment, I’d never experienced something like that before. I’ve been part of formation flights, but nothing like that. Two 747s, I mean, that’s pretty unique. I was flying on [SCA] 911, so I got a chance to see Jeff in [SCA] 905 come up from behind us and to our left wing. To see such a big piece of metal coming towards you, it got your attention. It was fun to watch that and be part of that. From the videos I got to see from the F-18s [aircraft] and some of the ground shots, it was a pretty good photo op [opportunity]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any discussion about where you would fly and how you would fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had a pre-brief before we went to go fly, and basically Jeff choreographed what we needed to do with both sets of airplanes and what he was planning on doing and how long we were going to be up. We also had to have the F-18 be part of that briefing, because when we’ve got three ships up there you want everybody to be on the same page of music."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you fly in formation?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00698:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 42.859296194063326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Especially that big of an airplane. It was quite a moment, I’d never experienced something like that before. I’ve been part of formation flights, but nothing like that. Two 747s, I mean, that’s pretty unique. I was flying on [SCA] 911, so I got a chance to see Jeff in [SCA] 905 come up from behind us and to our left wing. To see such a big piece of metal coming towards you, it got your attention. It was fun to watch that and be part of that. From the videos I got to see from the F-18s [aircraft] and some of the ground shots, it was a pretty good photo op [opportunity]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any discussion about where you would fly and how you would fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had a pre-brief before we went to go fly, and basically Jeff choreographed what we needed to do with both sets of airplanes and what he was planning on doing and how long we were going to be up. We also had to have the F-18 be part of that briefing, because when we’ve got three ships up there you want everybody to be on the same page of music."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you fly in formation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably 30 minutes, I don’t remember. We couldn’t spend up very long, because 905 was very limited on aircraft time that it could fly because it was on a check flight and they were doing some engine monitoring stuff. They were very limited on their flight time, so it wasn’t very long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us, if you would, about your role as flight engineer in the flight readiness review [FRR]."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00698:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.890340109660603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, like I was talking about the maintenance schedule, if the one was in scheduled maintenance in Marana—the 905 was not going to go fly, 911’s available. It was just whatever airplane was up at that time was the one we used, it was just a matter of the maintenance schedule and where it was at at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your baby has just been retired, 911."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know, it’s a sad moment. Henry did me a favor. I was pre-flighting 905, and we were going to fly both airplanes. One was going to take off and go straight to Palmdale, and I was going to stay back and do a local with Bill Rieke and Bill [William F.] Brockett. Henry come up and he says, “You need to go do a walk-around one more time on the airplane before we can call it quits.” That was kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it the newer of the two?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the latest of the two. It’s not the newer, because it had more flight time on it than 905. When we got 905 I think it had a little over 10,000 hours on it. When 911 came onboard it had over 30,000 hours on it. So 911 had a little more passenger time on it, but for ferry time, I would say 905 had more ferries than 911. You’d have to go back and look at the archives, but I’m almost positive it did. When I come onboard on the SCA in the ’90s—I think I was involved with over 30, 35 ferry missions, and it was a lot more before I come onboard. Do you know what the total is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it’s 55 ferries from Edwards."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00698:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.211489010734002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know, it’s a sad moment. Henry did me a favor. I was pre-flighting 905, and we were going to fly both airplanes. One was going to take off and go straight to Palmdale, and I was going to stay back and do a local with Bill Rieke and Bill [William F.] Brockett. Henry come up and he says, “You need to go do a walk-around one more time on the airplane before we can call it quits.” That was kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it the newer of the two?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the latest of the two. It’s not the newer, because it had more flight time on it than 905. When we got 905 I think it had a little over 10,000 hours on it. When 911 came onboard it had over 30,000 hours on it. So 911 had a little more passenger time on it, but for ferry time, I would say 905 had more ferries than 911. You’d have to go back and look at the archives, but I’m almost positive it did. When I come onboard on the SCA in the ’90s—I think I was involved with over 30, 35 ferry missions, and it was a lot more before I come onboard. Do you know what the total is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it’s 55 ferries from Edwards."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, then I guess I did more than I thought. I was thinking there was 50 before I come on, but I don’t know. I didn’t do any counting until we got to looking at the numbers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did NASA decide to retire her instead of 905?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00698:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.79054334526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the latest of the two. It’s not the newer, because it had more flight time on it than 905. When we got 905 I think it had a little over 10,000 hours on it. When 911 came onboard it had over 30,000 hours on it. So 911 had a little more passenger time on it, but for ferry time, I would say 905 had more ferries than 911. You’d have to go back and look at the archives, but I’m almost positive it did. When I come onboard on the SCA in the ’90s—I think I was involved with over 30, 35 ferry missions, and it was a lot more before I come onboard. Do you know what the total is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it’s 55 ferries from Edwards."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, then I guess I did more than I thought. I was thinking there was 50 before I come on, but I don’t know. I didn’t do any counting until we got to looking at the numbers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did NASA decide to retire her instead of 905?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I wasn’t part of that discussion. They just picked 911 to be the one that goes down. They took, I think, two engines that had better time and condition on them and put them on 905. I think I was told that we had some gear-overhaul issues and some time-change issues that it was too expensive to get repaired and modified, so they decided just to take the one down. I think that’s what I remember in the discussion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned, a lot of the early missions landed out at Edwards, and there were a lot of ferry missions back here, and then of course taking the orbiters from here out to Palmdale. As time went on, there were fewer and fewer flights. What impact does flying the plane less and less have on the aircraft itself?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00698:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 27.5450481614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, then I guess I did more than I thought. I was thinking there was 50 before I come on, but I don’t know. I didn’t do any counting until we got to looking at the numbers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did NASA decide to retire her instead of 905?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I wasn’t part of that discussion. They just picked 911 to be the one that goes down. They took, I think, two engines that had better time and condition on them and put them on 905. I think I was told that we had some gear-overhaul issues and some time-change issues that it was too expensive to get repaired and modified, so they decided just to take the one down. I think that’s what I remember in the discussion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned, a lot of the early missions landed out at Edwards, and there were a lot of ferry missions back here, and then of course taking the orbiters from here out to Palmdale. As time went on, there were fewer and fewer flights. What impact does flying the plane less and less have on the aircraft itself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I told you earlier, we’re multi-qualified and so we kept our hands in other projects. When the ferry mission come along, you found any way to get off the other schedules to get back. They were few and far between, so you really worked the schedule to make yourself available to go fly. We were still required to go out every three weeks to fly our locals and keep our landing currencies going and then going to the simulator twice a year, so that’s how we maintain our currency. When it came time for ferry mission, yes, it was pretty exciting times to get back to rolling again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does it have any impact on the aircraft itself, though? Because I know if you don’t drive a car on a regular basis it’s problematic."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00031:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 70, "return_to_go": 166.03807245804992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dr. Kepley or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Sure. That’s fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doctor, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. If you would just begin by telling me your dates of service for the National Archives."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00031:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 62.662837402756985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chief of Program Analysis Branch, ‘88 to ‘93. And Chief of the User Services Branch, ‘93 to ‘94. And, as far as User Services Branch, is that Reference Services? What—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Yeah. That’s what I mentioned. We were running the entire research complex—of all the research rooms. As I said, in retrospect did that really work? Well, you had to get something started, but I think they were better off running their own branches. That was, that whole conversation about getting that whole research room complex up and running, starting it from scratch, that’s what that was all about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I’ll ask you about the reorganizations a little bit later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll ask you about that then. Then next was the Chief of Motion Picture, Sound, and Video Branch—1994 to ‘97."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00031:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 69.6253748919522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Yeah. That’s what I mentioned. We were running the entire research complex—of all the research rooms. As I said, in retrospect did that really work? Well, you had to get something started, but I think they were better off running their own branches. That was, that whole conversation about getting that whole research room complex up and running, starting it from scratch, that’s what that was all about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I’ll ask you about the reorganizations a little bit later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll ask you about that then. Then next was the Chief of Motion Picture, Sound, and Video Branch—1994 to ‘97."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now to Electronic Records Archives Transition Officer, ‘97 to 2012."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00031:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 65, "return_to_go": 76.25041654661356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll ask you about that then. Then next was the Chief of Motion Picture, Sound, and Video Branch—1994 to ‘97."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now to Electronic Records Archives Transition Officer, ‘97 to 2012."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To 2012."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a mouthful for a title."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00031:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.169643566479753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] We did—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—foresee that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There’s a lot of information that was developed by the ERA team in making the argument to OMB and Congress about how much stuff we are talking about. You’re right, we’re into the multi-terabyte, multi-petabyte stages and I think they were even talking about yottabytes, which, I think is next and a huge volume. How do you store that? How do you store it securely? I’m not a computer science guy, but there was a lot of work done and many studies into how much storage would be needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm-hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Overall, how would you describe the success of ERA? Up to what you can remember?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00031:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 23.521826184977503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There’s a lot of information that was developed by the ERA team in making the argument to OMB and Congress about how much stuff we are talking about. You’re right, we’re into the multi-terabyte, multi-petabyte stages and I think they were even talking about yottabytes, which, I think is next and a huge volume. How do you store that? How do you store it securely? I’m not a computer science guy, but there was a lot of work done and many studies into how much storage would be needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm-hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Overall, how would you describe the success of ERA? Up to what you can remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I say, at the beginning, it was not a success at all. It was pretty much in failure mode until they brought in another team. It’s been launched to the entire Federal government. As far as I know, the entire Federal government is using it and we’re not using paper anymore. Are they all happy? Nobody’s ever happy but I think people are adjusting to it. How is it working within NARA? Are people using it? Yes. It is the system of record for our accessions and our appraisals. Can it be better? When it comes to these electronic systems, they can always be better. There will be a constant need of fixing things. Is it a success? I think it is doing its basic core mission. It has been completed, has been laid out, and now they have to populate it. They have to keep using it and they have to keep revising it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who are some of the people who’ve helped you with your career at the Archives?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00031:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.1263775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for the earliest ones, I was at such a low level I hardly had any inkling of the impact. I started under Bert Rhoads. I’m a beginning archivist, what do I know what he’s doing? I had no notion of that. Warner got us independence. I met the man a few times and he seemed like a wonderful guy, but I had almost no personal contacts with him. With Don Wilson, his focus was on Regional Archives and trying to expand that program. There was some wisdom in that, but there was lack of wisdom in the way he went about it. I think he left us with a legacy that was not as good as it could have been. Then John Carlin was able to get us an awful lot of money and that helped us during the Clinton Administration. I did not have much interaction with Weinstein. I had some with David Ferriero. He continued the push towards toward ERA, which is good. Again, I didn’t have a whole lot dealing with folks at that level, my dealings with folks at the level below that. I was just an archivist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What organizations have influenced your career, SAA or any of the other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, outside organizations?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm-hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a member of SAA at the very beginning but it became difficult to stick with that just because the problem with being active in these associations was NARA, unless you can get on the program, generally did not support people going to the conventions. They’re almost always out of the city, so that’s a significant personal commitment of funds to do that. Once you start having a family, a mortgage, it’s hard to, so I didn’t do that as much as I would have liked to. I enjoyed it early on when I didn’t have some of those commitments and my wife and I were on a double income and no kids. Once we started having children, I didn’t have time to do that. SAA did not have much of an influence on me. MARAC somewhat more, because it’s local and you could get to those places more easily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had any work with the Archives Assembly?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00031:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.695975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, outside organizations?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm-hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a member of SAA at the very beginning but it became difficult to stick with that just because the problem with being active in these associations was NARA, unless you can get on the program, generally did not support people going to the conventions. They’re almost always out of the city, so that’s a significant personal commitment of funds to do that. Once you start having a family, a mortgage, it’s hard to, so I didn’t do that as much as I would have liked to. I enjoyed it early on when I didn’t have some of those commitments and my wife and I were on a double income and no kids. Once we started having children, I didn’t have time to do that. SAA did not have much of an influence on me. MARAC somewhat more, because it’s local and you could get to those places more easily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had any work with the Archives Assembly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had any relation with them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00031:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.21775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a member of SAA at the very beginning but it became difficult to stick with that just because the problem with being active in these associations was NARA, unless you can get on the program, generally did not support people going to the conventions. They’re almost always out of the city, so that’s a significant personal commitment of funds to do that. Once you start having a family, a mortgage, it’s hard to, so I didn’t do that as much as I would have liked to. I enjoyed it early on when I didn’t have some of those commitments and my wife and I were on a double income and no kids. Once we started having children, I didn’t have time to do that. SAA did not have much of an influence on me. MARAC somewhat more, because it’s local and you could get to those places more easily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had any work with the Archives Assembly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had any relation with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was there when the Assembly first was formed in the late 1970’s. I was there for some of those discussions. It is a wonderful organization. It is what we should have been doing, all along, an organization of professionals and paraprofessionals sharing their insights. I very much believe in what they do and how they’ve done it. I think it’s terrific."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now your wife still works here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00031:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 15.797500000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had any relation with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was there when the Assembly first was formed in the late 1970’s. I was there for some of those discussions. It is a wonderful organization. It is what we should have been doing, all along, an organization of professionals and paraprofessionals sharing their insights. I very much believe in what they do and how they’ve done it. I think it’s terrific."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now your wife still works here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. She retired two weeks ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s right. Two weeks ago, that’s right. So, at one point your children and your wife and yourself all worked at the Archive. Can you explain how that worked?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00031:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know about pretty easily. It was hard to leave here. It was very hard. Part of it is, I believe in the mission of the National Archives. I do. I met my wife here. My kids worked here. I was trained as an historian and I wanted to go into an academic profession. I worked here and it was sort of a fallback position, but then it became a passion for me. I have a passion for the mission of the National Archives, absolutely. By the way, while I was working here I worked part-time as a history professor at Northern Virginia Community College. As I was coming to the end of my career, I went back to those guys and said, “Would it be okay if I came back?” And they said, “Sure, come on back.” That’s what I’m doing. Two weeks, a week after I left here, I was teaching a class at Northern Virginia Community College, a history class, of course. I’m a history professor. When I’m asked who am I and what am I doing now? I say, “Well I worked for the National Archives for 35 years and two years in other government organizations, so 37 years overall for the Federal government, but I’m a history professor. I’ve always felt like I’m kind of like both. I’m proud of both of those experiences. My wife and I, now that’s she’s retired, have done some traveling. We’ll be doing some more of that and just enjoying ourselves. It was difficult to transition at first, but once I jumped into the teaching that helped me. I could do something that I loved. I had never taught the class before so I had to work really hard to get ready for it, to get ready for all the questions and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. It was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Any other topics you’d like to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. I think I’ve done it. Do you guys have any other questions?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You sure?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Well, thank you for your time today, sir."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00630:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 33.63818838960107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came on there in ’97, and it launched in 2001. Of course it takes a very long time to establish the requirements, build the physical module. But, more than building the structure, it’s the interfaces—the interfaces to the other modules as well as the interfaces of all the systems and hardware within it. All the requirements had been defined, it was just in the final build integration test phase."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the challenges that you faced as you moved to get this module ready for launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As always, schedule is a challenge. You have to be flexible, because the schedules on complex programs and the testing—if not everything goes exactly as planned, then you have to look and see where it is—either you can make up the schedule, or where it is, can you can adjust for the longer term—because the most important thing is, of course, is to have it right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk some about that ’97 to 2001 time period. You did have a schedule. There was an expectation that Destiny was going to become full-fledged, and as you mentioned, become the heart of the Station. Walk us through some of the more significant achievement, and the goals and accomplishments, and even some of the failures that you encountered getting that package ready to go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two aspects to it—like I said, the software and the avionics, and having that at the level that it needed to be [in order] to be tested. A lot of that testing was actually done here. Then there was the physical interface testing, which was done at [NASA] KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida] with the module to understand the physical interfaces. Schedule is always a problem—certainly it did not launch as planned when I came on, as far as the timing. But it got there very successfully, was integrated successfully, operated right away, and of course is still operating successfully on orbit today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Centers earlier. Did you have a working relationship with [NASA] Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama] at that time, or was that afterwards?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00630:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.26465376622341, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As always, schedule is a challenge. You have to be flexible, because the schedules on complex programs and the testing—if not everything goes exactly as planned, then you have to look and see where it is—either you can make up the schedule, or where it is, can you can adjust for the longer term—because the most important thing is, of course, is to have it right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk some about that ’97 to 2001 time period. You did have a schedule. There was an expectation that Destiny was going to become full-fledged, and as you mentioned, become the heart of the Station. Walk us through some of the more significant achievement, and the goals and accomplishments, and even some of the failures that you encountered getting that package ready to go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two aspects to it—like I said, the software and the avionics, and having that at the level that it needed to be [in order] to be tested. A lot of that testing was actually done here. Then there was the physical interface testing, which was done at [NASA] KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida] with the module to understand the physical interfaces. Schedule is always a problem—certainly it did not launch as planned when I came on, as far as the timing. But it got there very successfully, was integrated successfully, operated right away, and of course is still operating successfully on orbit today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Centers earlier. Did you have a working relationship with [NASA] Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama] at that time, or was that afterwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did work with Marshall a good bit. We worked of course with KSC a good bit because a lot of the testing of the physical hardware was done down at KSC. I’d say those were probably the primary interfaces that I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there, here, there, and everywhere, going from place to place as the manager of the module? I know you had a team."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00630:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 40.29405974024823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two aspects to it—like I said, the software and the avionics, and having that at the level that it needed to be [in order] to be tested. A lot of that testing was actually done here. Then there was the physical interface testing, which was done at [NASA] KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida] with the module to understand the physical interfaces. Schedule is always a problem—certainly it did not launch as planned when I came on, as far as the timing. But it got there very successfully, was integrated successfully, operated right away, and of course is still operating successfully on orbit today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Centers earlier. Did you have a working relationship with [NASA] Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama] at that time, or was that afterwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did work with Marshall a good bit. We worked of course with KSC a good bit because a lot of the testing of the physical hardware was done down at KSC. I’d say those were probably the primary interfaces that I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there, here, there, and everywhere, going from place to place as the manager of the module? I know you had a team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I would say a lot of the work that I did was from here, because a lot of it was more of a program-level integration versus integration of the subsystems and the detailed technical work. A lot of it was done from here. I would say the place that I would travel occasionally would be to KSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course as you were getting ready for launch, that wasn’t really the end. That was more the beginning, because Destiny would be going up to make its place in history. What were some of the other duties and responsibilities that you were working on that you needed to take care of while launch was being prepared for, and then eventually that you moved into after Destiny was up?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00630:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 22, "return_to_go": 44.7711774891647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did work with Marshall a good bit. We worked of course with KSC a good bit because a lot of the testing of the physical hardware was done down at KSC. I’d say those were probably the primary interfaces that I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there, here, there, and everywhere, going from place to place as the manager of the module? I know you had a team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I would say a lot of the work that I did was from here, because a lot of it was more of a program-level integration versus integration of the subsystems and the detailed technical work. A lot of it was done from here. I would say the place that I would travel occasionally would be to KSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course as you were getting ready for launch, that wasn’t really the end. That was more the beginning, because Destiny would be going up to make its place in history. What were some of the other duties and responsibilities that you were working on that you needed to take care of while launch was being prepared for, and then eventually that you moved into after Destiny was up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My responsibilities on Destiny ended when it was launched and integrated. We worked real-time ops [operations] just during the actual flight until it was integrated onto Space Station. But then my role moved to other flights after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about those and then how those eventually led to where you are now."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00630:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.962673281056396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To be honest, yes. I did actually read that myself. I believe this is on HTV, and it is to look at how the aging is different. Actually they’re going to be on orbit, some of them, for one year and some for two. Then they will get the results and test them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure that’ll have a big story after that. I just thought well, that’s odd."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a little unusual. It didn’t take any special handling from our perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there other aspects or elements throughout your lifespan working on the cargo part that have been maybe disappointing, that you worked really hard to make sure things got up? And that you had to go back and rethink, and that ended up in a process that maybe got enhanced or improved for the next time something got sent up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have some trouble with the NanoRacks [LLC] CubeSats [miniaturized satellites] on the deploy. The various teams, not just in my area, worked with them to make sure that we have the requirements right, and they have tested them appropriately so that they don’t have any problems in the future with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seems like the word you use a lot is “teams.” You really work with a lot of people. What’s the common ground? Is it a series of meetings or a series of requirements? What seems to be the working piece that makes it work well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00630:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.303186899999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I will apologize here, because I don’t know. I know that we have done some work that will help Orion, but I don’t have the specifics today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. You’ve talked about one of the most memorable moments was being able to work with Destiny, getting it ready and then watching it launch. Do you have any others that you’d like to share with us that seem to stand out in your memory?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think probably the first launch of every vehicle. The first launch of ATV—making sure it was successful, the docking was successful, and it appropriately brought all the cargo. The first launch of the HTV, the first launch of the SpaceX, first launch of Orbital. I think all the first time launches are very special in that you do have a lot more coordination and integration, but you also are a lot more nervous initially. So you want to make sure that everything goes well, and they have done very well. It’s not just the launch. I say launch, but obviously the important part is either the docking or berthing to Station and successfully carrying out the mission, because you’ve got to have the science and the other logistics delivered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you here watching? Or are you somewhere else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have not gone to one of those launches. There are a few people that have. For instance in my office I do have a few people that go to KSC for the late load. They process it at KSC because KSC has some laboratories that can be used for the L minus 24-hour [24 hours before launch] late load. Then they just truck it across the causeway over to the Canaveral side, so I do have a couple of people who work for me that have seen a SpaceX launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe something to put on your list, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00630:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.003540999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think probably the first launch of every vehicle. The first launch of ATV—making sure it was successful, the docking was successful, and it appropriately brought all the cargo. The first launch of the HTV, the first launch of the SpaceX, first launch of Orbital. I think all the first time launches are very special in that you do have a lot more coordination and integration, but you also are a lot more nervous initially. So you want to make sure that everything goes well, and they have done very well. It’s not just the launch. I say launch, but obviously the important part is either the docking or berthing to Station and successfully carrying out the mission, because you’ve got to have the science and the other logistics delivered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you here watching? Or are you somewhere else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have not gone to one of those launches. There are a few people that have. For instance in my office I do have a few people that go to KSC for the late load. They process it at KSC because KSC has some laboratories that can be used for the L minus 24-hour [24 hours before launch] late load. Then they just truck it across the causeway over to the Canaveral side, so I do have a couple of people who work for me that have seen a SpaceX launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe something to put on your list, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We started out by talking about where you started. You mentioned that you had spent that year in Russia and getting to understand how important it is to understand the international partners. Of course Russia was the first one and now you’re working with the Japanese and you’ve worked with ESA [European Space Agency]. What do you feel are some of the lessons that you have learned by working with these international groups that work well for all of those, or just work well for you? What can you share with us as important lessons when you’re working with international partners?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00630:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s the purpose of an International Space Station. That’s what the “I” stands for. We are a global community. International Space Station is a global cooperative effort. I have not read that specific article, but them reaching out to get science from other different countries and parts of the world I think is a very good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a nice common language to share, science in itself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any other thoughts or any other comments or experiences that you’d like to share or talk about while we’re here today? Anything personal or professional that you’ve shared, or something else that you’ve learned that maybe would be a good thing to pass on to others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think mainly people need to keep pursuing their goals. You don’t necessarily get your ideal position the day you come, and it may not even be the best fit. But if you know what your goal is and you keep moving towards it—just as I did when I went back and saw what I needed to do to move over into first the Space Shuttle and then the Station—you just have to understand what your goals are and then keep taking the steps in order to achieve them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We should watch and see what you’re going to do with Mars. Is that what you’re saying?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00630:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any other thoughts or any other comments or experiences that you’d like to share or talk about while we’re here today? Anything personal or professional that you’ve shared, or something else that you’ve learned that maybe would be a good thing to pass on to others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think mainly people need to keep pursuing their goals. You don’t necessarily get your ideal position the day you come, and it may not even be the best fit. But if you know what your goal is and you keep moving towards it—just as I did when I went back and saw what I needed to do to move over into first the Space Shuttle and then the Station—you just have to understand what your goals are and then keep taking the steps in order to achieve them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We should watch and see what you’re going to do with Mars. Is that what you’re saying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would love to see what we’re going to do with Mars. I would just love it. We definitely need to go beyond low-Earth orbit. Station is going to be an excellent—I think like you say the legacy, it’ll come a little bit later. Usually people don’t understand all of the benefits initially. It does come a little bit later. But I hope one of the legacies is that it did help us to do human exploration beyond low-Earth orbit as well as the science that helps the individuals on Earth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you for coming today and for doing so much that you’ve done and sharing that with us. Appreciate it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00413:14", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 69, "return_to_go": 81.39581821910527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This facility, it was about 1978. Then I went on until the end of the construction of facility, which finished in 1992."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the upgrade of the integrated systems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’m sorry, it wasn’t ’78, it was ’87."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[In] ’87 you came to this facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, then maybe, Mr. Milhoan, I should ask you. What changes did you do in the building to support the Shuttle program itself?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00413:48", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.23505042428632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It may be like a subsystem manager, or it could be the Orbiter Project Office. We do real-time flight support. So, for example, you remember when they had to go out, I think it was STS-117, and the blankets over this carbon honeycomb were pulled up, and they wanted to find out [if we] should we go repair it. They found some stainless steel pins and staples and said, “Well, we’ll go push it down and we’ll staple it and pin it.” But nobody knew what those metallic things were going to do during reentry at the location that they were at.\\n\\n You’ve got to move pretty fast. They built test articles and got the pins over here. Right here at this table where we’re sitting, the astronaut would come over and have a glove, and they would read the script that they were going to have them follow when they repaired it. They folded it down with the glove and put the pins in it and the staples. Then we put that test article in a water-cooled wedge holder that we’d already precalibrated and knew what conditions to run. We ran that and then people were able to see it and say, “Hey, that looks pretty good,” and then they said, “Okay, now go out and repair it, because we know it’s going to work.” We do real-time support like that.\n\nThey repaired it while they were on orbit. After they came back the astronaut who did the repair in space came over and gave his thanks.\n\nGave us that guy up there. [Points to wall hanging from the flight crew.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the astronaut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Danny [John D.] Olivas. He’s the one who repaired it and he said, “Thanks a lot.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure he did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even years before that, I forget what mission it was. They had these white deposits show up on a vehicle, I think it was on the runway at White Sands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Edwards [Air Force Base, California]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00413:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.02201704291676, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Danny [John D.] Olivas. He’s the one who repaired it and he said, “Thanks a lot.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure he did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even years before that, I forget what mission it was. They had these white deposits show up on a vehicle, I think it was on the runway at White Sands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Edwards [Air Force Base, California]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Edwards. Then they started looking at all the vehicles and they go, “What is this white stuff?” Scrape it off and try to analyze it. It’s calcium carbonate. They thought is that going to cause a problem, where’d it come from. They had a vehicle, and I forget which mission it was. They had it sitting on the pad. They didn’t know whether to roll it back and study this problem or what. They said, “We’ll run an arc jet test and show that this material is okay if we can for one mission. Then they’ll give us time to work the problem.”\\n\\n They got samples of it and we had these RCC [Reinforced Carbon-Carbon] sample pucks. Astronauts flew a T-[38] down there with a puck, and they contaminated it with the stuff off the vehicle. They flew it back. Meanwhile, we had the test point identified and put it in, ran it, and everything looked okay, and said, “You’re okay, you don’t have to pull the vehicle back.” From the time they asked us to run that test until we had the results was 36 hours. We were working round the clock and had to get everything quick because they had to make that decision. They didn’t want to leave it sitting out on the pad longer than necessary.\n\nWe get on standby for every flight in case they have problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it unusual for you to be called?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00680:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We wish you the best of luck."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you want to add before we finish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think I’ve talked a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. We learned a lot. Thank you for sharing."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 33.31093732496123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been in the Navy during the Korean War. After I got out, I went to college at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill and studied physics. In the Navy, I was involved in electronics and sonar. That was the job I had, which was searching for submarines, if you will. Anyway, when I was graduating, I interviewed for a number of jobs. One was this thing called NACA, which I didn’t fully understand except they talked about rockets and going to the Moon and so forth. I was a long-time fan of science fiction, so I signed up for the job and came to work here in July of ’58. It was still NACA until October."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was your interview? Was it here locally when you got out of the Navy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I interviewed in Chapel Hill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Chapel Hill."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a recruiter, Bill [William M.] Bland, if I’ve got the name right. He went to Houston [Texas, Manned Spacecraft Center/Johnson Space Center]. I’m sure he retired there. He was a super interviewer, and he got me all excited about the job. Anyway, I came up then. When I arrived here, I interviewed at the headquarters here. They said, “OK, electronics and physics—you’re going to work for the Instrument Research Division [IRD]. Don’t even look anywhere else.” The first building as you come in is Building 1230, and that’s where I went in 1958. I stayed in electronics and instrumentation measurements for most of my career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got here, 1957 was such a monumental year. Sputnik [Russian satellite] had debuted in October. Of course, it was months after that. Did that have an impact on your interest at all of trying to do something maybe in space?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 33.678819249956916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I interviewed in Chapel Hill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Chapel Hill."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a recruiter, Bill [William M.] Bland, if I’ve got the name right. He went to Houston [Texas, Manned Spacecraft Center/Johnson Space Center]. I’m sure he retired there. He was a super interviewer, and he got me all excited about the job. Anyway, I came up then. When I arrived here, I interviewed at the headquarters here. They said, “OK, electronics and physics—you’re going to work for the Instrument Research Division [IRD]. Don’t even look anywhere else.” The first building as you come in is Building 1230, and that’s where I went in 1958. I stayed in electronics and instrumentation measurements for most of my career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got here, 1957 was such a monumental year. Sputnik [Russian satellite] had debuted in October. Of course, it was months after that. Did that have an impact on your interest at all of trying to do something maybe in space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, absolutely it did. I was very much interested in that. When I got here, it was all rumbling. There was this committee put together by NACA, laying out space plans, which eventually resulted in the creation of the Space Task Group and then the opening of the Center in Houston. They were putting that together. It was just very exciting—the response to Sputnik—but really to go in space and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any thoughts of maybe wanting to join up with that group, or was that even an option at that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.86861111105708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, absolutely, all of them were. I mentioned Nelson and Jim Stitt. [G.] Barry Graves was another one I worked with. George [W.] Brooks, who directed the structures program is still living—he’s close by. They were all just terrific guys. The ones I gave you on that last list, they were ‘Directors for.’ If you can imagine, you had the Center Director and then maybe his deputy, and then the next level were department heads, and they were called ‘Directors for.’ Those guys—Stitt, Barry Graves, George Brooks—they were just terrific, terrific guys. You did the right thing. They got you excited, and then you did the right thing. You didn’t screw around. You did it right. They would take you to task to be sure that you had done it exactly right, and that’s good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a formal peer review? How did you know you did it right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you had a formal career review. It would take on different things over my career. Towards the end, it was fairly formal. You had to report and deliver on these things. In general, whether it was a formal document or not, you were given assignments and graded on those assignments. Later on, I remember there were cases where you really were; your name was attached to that thing, and if that didn’t succeed, then your career was—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Impacted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Impacted. That’s right—influenced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to follow your projects all the way through? You mentioned about the different project things. Did you just work on a piece and then hand it off?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.96512345673009, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you had a formal career review. It would take on different things over my career. Towards the end, it was fairly formal. You had to report and deliver on these things. In general, whether it was a formal document or not, you were given assignments and graded on those assignments. Later on, I remember there were cases where you really were; your name was attached to that thing, and if that didn’t succeed, then your career was—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Impacted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Impacted. That’s right—influenced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to follow your projects all the way through? You mentioned about the different project things. Did you just work on a piece and then hand it off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You generally could follow through. Some things had been going on for a lot of years. You may come in and help contribute to it and then step back out, but your contributions in that period were recognized and they knew what you were doing. As you got up in management, then you began to have to manage those under you and see how they worked. You’d have to track them, motivate them, and make them commit to it; performance appraisal-type stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A different type of hands-on activity."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 34.4056927297001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Impacted. That’s right—influenced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to follow your projects all the way through? You mentioned about the different project things. Did you just work on a piece and then hand it off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You generally could follow through. Some things had been going on for a lot of years. You may come in and help contribute to it and then step back out, but your contributions in that period were recognized and they knew what you were doing. As you got up in management, then you began to have to manage those under you and see how they worked. You’d have to track them, motivate them, and make them commit to it; performance appraisal-type stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A different type of hands-on activity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a different type. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the biggest change, if any, when the NACA officially became NASA?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 34.89521414411122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You generally could follow through. Some things had been going on for a lot of years. You may come in and help contribute to it and then step back out, but your contributions in that period were recognized and they knew what you were doing. As you got up in management, then you began to have to manage those under you and see how they worked. You’d have to track them, motivate them, and make them commit to it; performance appraisal-type stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A different type of hands-on activity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a different type. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the biggest change, if any, when the NACA officially became NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t spend a lot of time in NACA—a couple of months pretty much—but the people who had been there were still there. As an aside, the most important thing for those who had worked in NACA were the wings [wall plaque] that you got. I ended up getting a set of wings at the end. For a while, you had to have worked one year or two years or whatever, but I watched grown men cry when they were awarded those wings. It was a very significant moment in their professional careers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, for different parts of their career, they received those?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 35.43912682679024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a different type. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the biggest change, if any, when the NACA officially became NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t spend a lot of time in NACA—a couple of months pretty much—but the people who had been there were still there. As an aside, the most important thing for those who had worked in NACA were the wings [wall plaque] that you got. I ended up getting a set of wings at the end. For a while, you had to have worked one year or two years or whatever, but I watched grown men cry when they were awarded those wings. It was a very significant moment in their professional careers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, for different parts of their career, they received those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I just want to make the point that a lot of the guys that had served—and women—in NACA were still here with NASA, so we carried over a lot of that history and appreciation of what had been done in the past and their contributions as we began to bring in large numbers of new people. As you know, at Johnson, the Space Task Group was formed here with [Robert R.] Gilruth. They went down, and a lot of friends of mine went down with them. I kept track of them for years. I’ve lost a lot of people at this point in my age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like the culture of the comradery or the nature of the level of achievement changed in any ways when more and more new people were added to the ranks?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.28287262566696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I just want to make the point that a lot of the guys that had served—and women—in NACA were still here with NASA, so we carried over a lot of that history and appreciation of what had been done in the past and their contributions as we began to bring in large numbers of new people. As you know, at Johnson, the Space Task Group was formed here with [Robert R.] Gilruth. They went down, and a lot of friends of mine went down with them. I kept track of them for years. I’ve lost a lot of people at this point in my age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like the culture of the comradery or the nature of the level of achievement changed in any ways when more and more new people were added to the ranks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. There were times when some of the people here had been at Langley for a long time in aeronautics, mostly. This space group had run off down to Texas. A little bit later, Langley did a Viking project [Mars space probes], and it was a terrific program. It went to Mars, but, at the time, it was a group that worked on that space project who demanded a lot of resources from Langley. The aeronautics and older people working there resented that a little bit, so there was a little bit of in-fighting and that kind of thing. In the end, I think they all were extremely proud of the product and the accomplishments. It was an amazing thing for this aeronautics-based organization to rise up and take on a major space exploration project. They had done other things, but here was landing on Mars. That was absolutely terrific."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn’t. I was on the other side. A lot of my friends were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know what they were doing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 45.86985847296329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. There were times when some of the people here had been at Langley for a long time in aeronautics, mostly. This space group had run off down to Texas. A little bit later, Langley did a Viking project [Mars space probes], and it was a terrific program. It went to Mars, but, at the time, it was a group that worked on that space project who demanded a lot of resources from Langley. The aeronautics and older people working there resented that a little bit, so there was a little bit of in-fighting and that kind of thing. In the end, I think they all were extremely proud of the product and the accomplishments. It was an amazing thing for this aeronautics-based organization to rise up and take on a major space exploration project. They had done other things, but here was landing on Mars. That was absolutely terrific."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn’t. I was on the other side. A lot of my friends were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know what they were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you knew pretty much what they were doing. What would happen was they would work on a project. There was one where they were doing the lunar orbiter, which was doing photographs of the lunar surface. They would come, and we’d interact with those people pretty well. Then, as Viking, I’d go in, and they would come in and say, “We need more people, engineers or electrical engineers in this area to come work over here.” So they would draft some in for a while. They’d come back and forth. It was an interaction. There was a little competition during it, but with both sides working just absolutely focused on success."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your role change in the division from where you started?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.751864568182302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that’s right. So, when you say human factors, how do you handle, inform, and keep the pilot up to date so that, if something happens, how does he take over?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that also related to the glass cockpit change in the Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think so, because before they were electromechanical, and now they were glass. For example, different airlines might have a different cockpit configuration. If it’s glass, meaning it’s like a television set, you can change and modify that easily through software, where before you were stuck with a hard, electromechanical instrument. It just opened up a whole new world. Like we do on iPhones today, we have the display, and we can upgrade the software and get new applications. It was the beginning of that whole period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a question I want to ask you about how technology impacted your career—the changes of what you walked into. Actually, when you were with the sonar, you started using that instrumentation, but yet, what you ended up with when you were leaving."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that’s right. Of course, in the early days, we were looking at screens and listening with our ears. You got to the point that you could identify that echo as a submarine, but you were augmented by the electronics. As we got up further, I began to look at the avionics and airplanes. I wrote a paper, “Coming Cockpit Avionics.” One of the little schemes we talked about was the pilot would get into the cockpit and everything is just blank, but he put on a pair of glasses, and the glasses were programmed to be a cockpit. Anyway, Google Glasses—we didn’t know. They owe us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you could have just patented that!"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.870087743000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, of course, we don’t talk to each other anymore, except to Siri."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She’s very popular. It’s a good thing you like her.\\n\\n What do you think are some of the principles or some of the basic tenets that you learned when you were first here that carried you through your career, again learning from some of those first people that were here as NACA folks? You learned, and then you carried those through that other people could learn from you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think loyalty, dedication to the job to do it right, and to work hard to do it right, depending on teammates, and you have to, because you can’t do it all. I don’t care how great you think you are, it’s going to be a team effort. And to work together to that common good and to be so excited about it and enjoy what you’re doing as you go along. I left NASA in 1989, and since then, I have a small business that we helped form in ’99, and it’s still going. The jobs you do there—I learned how to approach them as tasks; how to plan them and how to put them together.\\n\\n We have a team of members of our little company that come and go, but the company is the same sort of thing. I don’t know what it is, but you need that. I need that to be able to go in and do the work. I worry about not coming home to my wife. At the same time, I go home, and I’m interfering with her life. There is a resentment I run into it with women that don’t want this guy to come home and take over her life. At the same time, you both are always engaged in roles that change. As the kids grow up and move away, you both change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a full life of negotiation, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. It never goes away. You learn that with government and keeping the marriage together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You say you worked at Headquarters for a while. You worked between all those Centers, you must have learned a few practices of well-kept secrets of how to make things work with numerous personalities and agendas."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.07787527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think loyalty, dedication to the job to do it right, and to work hard to do it right, depending on teammates, and you have to, because you can’t do it all. I don’t care how great you think you are, it’s going to be a team effort. And to work together to that common good and to be so excited about it and enjoy what you’re doing as you go along. I left NASA in 1989, and since then, I have a small business that we helped form in ’99, and it’s still going. The jobs you do there—I learned how to approach them as tasks; how to plan them and how to put them together.\\n\\n We have a team of members of our little company that come and go, but the company is the same sort of thing. I don’t know what it is, but you need that. I need that to be able to go in and do the work. I worry about not coming home to my wife. At the same time, I go home, and I’m interfering with her life. There is a resentment I run into it with women that don’t want this guy to come home and take over her life. At the same time, you both are always engaged in roles that change. As the kids grow up and move away, you both change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a full life of negotiation, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. It never goes away. You learn that with government and keeping the marriage together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You say you worked at Headquarters for a while. You worked between all those Centers, you must have learned a few practices of well-kept secrets of how to make things work with numerous personalities and agendas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you’re worried about being sure everybody is on board, make the team larger and include everybody. They’ve got to be there to work it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were working there at a very interesting time during the Shuttle Program."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.3087503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. It never goes away. You learn that with government and keeping the marriage together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You say you worked at Headquarters for a while. You worked between all those Centers, you must have learned a few practices of well-kept secrets of how to make things work with numerous personalities and agendas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you’re worried about being sure everybody is on board, make the team larger and include everybody. They’ve got to be there to work it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were working there at a very interesting time during the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. The whole thing was fascinating; the excitement of the Moon landings and anything we had done. NASA was and is a wonderful name that when you mention that’s who you worked for, people step up and pay attention. One time in my life outside, I was back in my little hometown in North Carolina. Somebody said, “Where are you working now?”\\n\\n I said, “NASA.”\\n\\n They said, “Is that an insurance agency?” It wasn’t everywhere, but most people were learning about it. It was a great organization. It’s been wonderful to be part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you ever find a time that you go back and reflect on that was probably the most challenging time period that you worked for the agency?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.623000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a great program, because there we worked very closely with the Air Force. I think, over the years, NASA has been a great partner with the Department of Defense, especially the Air Force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like you got everything accomplished with that program that you wanted to before you left, or did you find parts of that frustrating?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was frustrating. Some of the technology wasn’t ready. It was a fairly expensive program, and so priorities come and priorities go. As we currently know in budgets in Congress, there are going to be airplanes that people love or programs that people have dedicated their lives to make work that are not going to happen because currently we have budget problems. But, don’t give up the vision. You’ve got to keep going. I was looking at an interview with the guy who runs Tesla."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Elon Musk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He lives on the edge of failure at every minute but doesn’t give up. He’s a great model, I think, for a lot of people. The challenges are tough, but they’re exciting. You may fail, but don’t not go after them. That’s what’s exciting to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think has been the most rewarding part of you working in your career? What is something that you’re most proud of that you were able to accomplish."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.47, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was frustrating. Some of the technology wasn’t ready. It was a fairly expensive program, and so priorities come and priorities go. As we currently know in budgets in Congress, there are going to be airplanes that people love or programs that people have dedicated their lives to make work that are not going to happen because currently we have budget problems. But, don’t give up the vision. You’ve got to keep going. I was looking at an interview with the guy who runs Tesla."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Elon Musk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He lives on the edge of failure at every minute but doesn’t give up. He’s a great model, I think, for a lot of people. The challenges are tough, but they’re exciting. You may fail, but don’t not go after them. That’s what’s exciting to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think has been the most rewarding part of you working in your career? What is something that you’re most proud of that you were able to accomplish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a small thing—not a small thing, but it was exciting at the time. A guy had invented a way for airplanes to maneuver in the terminal areas—a system he put together that used the radars of the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration]. He got a hold of a congressman who wanted to get his job and research funded. The FAA didn’t want to do it, so Congress gave the job to NASA to resolve. I ended up running that little job. It was fascinating, dealing both with the FAA and the private industry and Congress and coming to what was a reasonable resolution of the job. It’s those kinds of jobs that I don’t forget. I think the Aerospace Plane Program—the part I played on that was exciting. All of the way back to the optical communications job, to do something, work at it, and bring it to some conclusion is exciting. An idea, to me, has always been exciting. To get an idea and work it—it may not work at all, but something of the creative side of you makes everything fun and worth doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like it. Is there anything else you would like to add or something else you can think of that we haven’t talked about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.3, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He lives on the edge of failure at every minute but doesn’t give up. He’s a great model, I think, for a lot of people. The challenges are tough, but they’re exciting. You may fail, but don’t not go after them. That’s what’s exciting to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think has been the most rewarding part of you working in your career? What is something that you’re most proud of that you were able to accomplish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a small thing—not a small thing, but it was exciting at the time. A guy had invented a way for airplanes to maneuver in the terminal areas—a system he put together that used the radars of the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration]. He got a hold of a congressman who wanted to get his job and research funded. The FAA didn’t want to do it, so Congress gave the job to NASA to resolve. I ended up running that little job. It was fascinating, dealing both with the FAA and the private industry and Congress and coming to what was a reasonable resolution of the job. It’s those kinds of jobs that I don’t forget. I think the Aerospace Plane Program—the part I played on that was exciting. All of the way back to the optical communications job, to do something, work at it, and bring it to some conclusion is exciting. An idea, to me, has always been exciting. To get an idea and work it—it may not work at all, but something of the creative side of you makes everything fun and worth doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like it. Is there anything else you would like to add or something else you can think of that we haven’t talked about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I do appreciate you spending the time with the NACA and that history. You mentioned earlier the centennial or whatever it’s called."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that’s coming up next year."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00969:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 7.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a small thing—not a small thing, but it was exciting at the time. A guy had invented a way for airplanes to maneuver in the terminal areas—a system he put together that used the radars of the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration]. He got a hold of a congressman who wanted to get his job and research funded. The FAA didn’t want to do it, so Congress gave the job to NASA to resolve. I ended up running that little job. It was fascinating, dealing both with the FAA and the private industry and Congress and coming to what was a reasonable resolution of the job. It’s those kinds of jobs that I don’t forget. I think the Aerospace Plane Program—the part I played on that was exciting. All of the way back to the optical communications job, to do something, work at it, and bring it to some conclusion is exciting. An idea, to me, has always been exciting. To get an idea and work it—it may not work at all, but something of the creative side of you makes everything fun and worth doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like it. Is there anything else you would like to add or something else you can think of that we haven’t talked about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I do appreciate you spending the time with the NACA and that history. You mentioned earlier the centennial or whatever it’s called."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that’s coming up next year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s coming up. The other thing I did enjoy doing very much, as you know, I chaired the final reunion of the NACA here at Langley. The guys called me from California and said, “We want to do one more, Duncan. Would you please chair it?” which I did. The Alumni Association was behind it. Langley was behind it. We did it and had 360 people all over the country. You were here. You got to see part of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We stopped in."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00644:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 57.8318376364878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I look forward to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how you became involved with Orion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked with Brian Anderson on X-38; Brian was the first Program Manager for MPCV [Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle], CEV [Crew Exploration Vehicle] back then. He asked me to come work for him and lead up the Flight Test Office, so that’s how I got involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in 2005."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sort of things were you involved in at that point? It was a fairly new Program in 2005."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00644:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 62.035375151653106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked with Brian Anderson on X-38; Brian was the first Program Manager for MPCV [Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle], CEV [Crew Exploration Vehicle] back then. He asked me to come work for him and lead up the Flight Test Office, so that’s how I got involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in 2005."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sort of things were you involved in at that point? It was a fairly new Program in 2005."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was involved in the Source Board. We went ahead and downselected for the contractors. Then what I was asked to do was work on the abort flight testing, so I was not only on the Source Board but also was asked to lead up the abort flight test. Back then we had six abort tests on the books, so that was really what we did, lay out the plan on how we’d get all the abort tests that we felt were necessary to be done at the time to certify the design. We used Apollo as the basis for that and laid out the initial plan based on what Apollo had done for their abort system. That’s where it all started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you refer to the abort system, you’re referring to the Launch Abort System [LAS], the rocket on top of the [vehicle]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00644:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 68.92819461294789, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in 2005."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sort of things were you involved in at that point? It was a fairly new Program in 2005."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was involved in the Source Board. We went ahead and downselected for the contractors. Then what I was asked to do was work on the abort flight testing, so I was not only on the Source Board but also was asked to lead up the abort flight test. Back then we had six abort tests on the books, so that was really what we did, lay out the plan on how we’d get all the abort tests that we felt were necessary to be done at the time to certify the design. We used Apollo as the basis for that and laid out the initial plan based on what Apollo had done for their abort system. That’s where it all started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you refer to the abort system, you’re referring to the Launch Abort System [LAS], the rocket on top of the [vehicle]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the Launch Abort System."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How robust was the design at that point when you started working on CEV? Have things changed dramatically since 2005?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00644:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 67.69799401438655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was involved in the Source Board. We went ahead and downselected for the contractors. Then what I was asked to do was work on the abort flight testing, so I was not only on the Source Board but also was asked to lead up the abort flight test. Back then we had six abort tests on the books, so that was really what we did, lay out the plan on how we’d get all the abort tests that we felt were necessary to be done at the time to certify the design. We used Apollo as the basis for that and laid out the initial plan based on what Apollo had done for their abort system. That’s where it all started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you refer to the abort system, you’re referring to the Launch Abort System [LAS], the rocket on top of the [vehicle]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the Launch Abort System."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How robust was the design at that point when you started working on CEV? Have things changed dramatically since 2005?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a tough question for me to answer: how robust the design was. The design has evolved over the last what, 11 years or so, 10 years. We had a boost protective cover back then, for example, like they did on Apollo. Then they wanted to carry I think it was the docking mechanism to the Space Station, so they actually extended the area underneath the Launch Abort System. That’s when the Ogives came in to have a larger volume in which to carry a docking system to the Station.\\n\\n As far as how robust, the vehicle has always had the mission to go on to Moon, Mars, and beyond. From the get-go it was designed to do that mission. It’s not like the requirements for the mission have evolved. How you define how robust it is, I can’t answer that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you took a look at Apollo to come up with these ideas for these abort tests. How did you stray from their original plans? Were there differences, or was it very similar?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00644:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 22, "return_to_go": 52.178904493578656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Mark [S.] Geyer, myself, we all went out to WSMR [White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico] at the time, which is where the team was, because the crew module and the Launch Abort System were physically at White Sands Missile Range when the announcement was made in February. We basically wanted to reassure the team that we were still going to continue to fund the test and conduct the test even though Constellation was canceled that February. Basically we told the team just to keep working. We still planned to do this test. Just wanted to make sure people knew that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of that day? You’d been working on this for so long. What sort of feelings did you have as things went smoothly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean on the launch day?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the launch day, yes, for Pad Abort 1."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just amazed that it went so well. It’s a big relief. You work that many years and you work so hard. You just sit there and hope everything goes the way it’s supposed to. I was Test Director, and I just remember sitting there watching the video. Other than the data, which everybody was looking at, it was the only thing I had to see was it going like it was supposed to. Just seeing all those motors firing and seeing the attitude control motor working, it’s like, “Well, didn’t blow up, and we’re flying, so that was just such a great feeling.” To find out that it did everything it was supposed to, achieved all its objectives. It was just a great day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There wasn’t a decision to move forward on MPCV till May of 2011 by the NASA Administrator. What were things like around here? What sort of projects were you guys working on? Were you just continuing your work? Congress was certainly battling to keep Orion."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00644:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.9304685102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they had the actual feed from the launch site on the ship. We were all down in the chapel. That’s where they congregated. We sat there and listened to the countdown. Of course the first day it didn’t launch, it scrubbed. It’s like oh. It’s actually fortunate that it didn’t, because the weather on that day was not very good for a helicopter. We had a lot of low-hanging clouds. It’s overcast. We probably wouldn’t have got what we actually ended up getting if we’d gone on the 4th of December. By delaying a day, the weather the next day was just beautiful. That allowed us to get some really good shots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in the helicopter for the recovery?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share those details with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. What better place could you be, talk about a front row seat. Yes, it was pretty amazing. We could actually see the imagery in the back. They had a repeater of the display that the pilots were looking at. We could actually see them acquire the crew module and then see all the chutes deploy. It was really something to see all the main chutes come out and actually look out there and see it coming down.\\n\\n To actually fly up to it just after it splashed down, be the first people there to actually see it, that was pretty neat. The crew module came within four miles of where we were. It’s probably the closest anybody’s ever been to a vehicle coming back from space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were some problems with the uprighting system. Was that a challenge for retrieval?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00644:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. By far the most rewarding was PA-1, just because we had total responsibility for making it happen and executing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mark Geyer has said that Orion learned to persevere. Would you agree with that statement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, definitely. Just to persevere in terms of the political environment, the funding environment. All the things. Compromises that had to be made in order to continue to move ahead. Personally, it’s my opinion that it’s a very inefficient way to do things. We’re going to spend a heck of a lot more money in the long run because of those compromises that we had to make. When I say compromises, let me just give you an example.\\n\\n On the EFT-1 reaction control systems, the material they used to hold those reaction control system nozzles wouldn’t survive abort loads. Basically we had to certify that design for EFT-1 from a loads standpoint. For EM-2 where we could do an abort with crew on board, now you got to recertify that whole system there because of a new material. You have to use a different material, now you have to go back and test it again.\\n\\n That happened on quite a few components on EFT-1. They didn’t qualify it to abort loads. You go certify it to what loads you expect to have on EFT-1, now you got to come back and recertify all those and test them to abort loads. If you’d just been given enough money to certify everything to abort loads, it’d be done with. But now you’ve got to test things multiple times. It’s very inefficient."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "NASA has an agreement with ESA [European Space Agency] to build the ESM [European Service Module]. Has that impacted your Office in any way in testing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because we don’t use their hardware for AA-2. There isn’t anything really that we touch, no software, no hardware. We’re not involved in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knock on wood. Unless you have anything else you’d like to talk about, I think we’ve covered most of the topics."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.73260766169932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good afternoon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us why did you join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very interested in traveling and working abroad, and I was interested in I eventually having a career in related to economic development. I was very interested in Africa. I thought about applying to various other jobs, like with some of the nonprofits or NGOs, and they weren't really interested in taking someone right out of college. But the Peace Corps, of course, was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, I'm sure I've been aware of the Peace Corps. Most of you know, most of my life, certainly from high school. I remember, you know, hearing about it, hearing about John F. Kennedy's famous speech in Ann Arbor. I'm originally from Michigan, so I was from Grand Rapids, Michigan. And when I was an undergrad at Johns Hopkins University, just near here. I took international studies and I, you know, talk to the various counselors and professors telling them that I wanted to have a career related to economic development. And sort of my main faculty advisor suggested the Peace Corps as it was probably being the best way to get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your reaction when you were accepted?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.369564068554798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very interested in traveling and working abroad, and I was interested in I eventually having a career in related to economic development. I was very interested in Africa. I thought about applying to various other jobs, like with some of the nonprofits or NGOs, and they weren't really interested in taking someone right out of college. But the Peace Corps, of course, was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, I'm sure I've been aware of the Peace Corps. Most of you know, most of my life, certainly from high school. I remember, you know, hearing about it, hearing about John F. Kennedy's famous speech in Ann Arbor. I'm originally from Michigan, so I was from Grand Rapids, Michigan. And when I was an undergrad at Johns Hopkins University, just near here. I took international studies and I, you know, talk to the various counselors and professors telling them that I wanted to have a career related to economic development. And sort of my main faculty advisor suggested the Peace Corps as it was probably being the best way to get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your reaction when you were accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was happy. I was actually I was relieved. I was afraid. You know, I had tried to apply to some of these other things, like care or I can't even remember a bunch of places. And even I had a cousin who was living in Zimbabwe doing work with some of the refugee camps there. And even he wrote back and said, no, I can't just hire you right out of college. So I was I was relieved that I was able to go into the Peace Corps and have that experience to sort of launch my career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you got accepted, where you're did you have any preferences of where you wanted to go or what you want to do or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.96618229839422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, I'm sure I've been aware of the Peace Corps. Most of you know, most of my life, certainly from high school. I remember, you know, hearing about it, hearing about John F. Kennedy's famous speech in Ann Arbor. I'm originally from Michigan, so I was from Grand Rapids, Michigan. And when I was an undergrad at Johns Hopkins University, just near here. I took international studies and I, you know, talk to the various counselors and professors telling them that I wanted to have a career related to economic development. And sort of my main faculty advisor suggested the Peace Corps as it was probably being the best way to get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your reaction when you were accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was happy. I was actually I was relieved. I was afraid. You know, I had tried to apply to some of these other things, like care or I can't even remember a bunch of places. And even I had a cousin who was living in Zimbabwe doing work with some of the refugee camps there. And even he wrote back and said, no, I can't just hire you right out of college. So I was I was relieved that I was able to go into the Peace Corps and have that experience to sort of launch my career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you got accepted, where you're did you have any preferences of where you wanted to go or what you want to do or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, actually, I was most interested in Africa. And I had sort of indicated that, as I recall, somewhere along the line in the process, they indicated, you know, I might be able to have a position in Africa or in Latin America or maybe it was, I think also maybe South Korea or something like that. And I said I was most interested in Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why was that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 14.406869220438022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was happy. I was actually I was relieved. I was afraid. You know, I had tried to apply to some of these other things, like care or I can't even remember a bunch of places. And even I had a cousin who was living in Zimbabwe doing work with some of the refugee camps there. And even he wrote back and said, no, I can't just hire you right out of college. So I was I was relieved that I was able to go into the Peace Corps and have that experience to sort of launch my career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you got accepted, where you're did you have any preferences of where you wanted to go or what you want to do or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, actually, I was most interested in Africa. And I had sort of indicated that, as I recall, somewhere along the line in the process, they indicated, you know, I might be able to have a position in Africa or in Latin America or maybe it was, I think also maybe South Korea or something like that. And I said I was most interested in Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. It is it just sort of a feeling of curiosity and interest. I was very interested in African history. I had taken some African history courses and I loved music from Africa and some of the then heads of state like Julius Nyerere and in Tanzania. And so I thought, that's where I want to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your family travel a lot before when you were in school or before then or had you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.22985468937558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, actually, I was most interested in Africa. And I had sort of indicated that, as I recall, somewhere along the line in the process, they indicated, you know, I might be able to have a position in Africa or in Latin America or maybe it was, I think also maybe South Korea or something like that. And I said I was most interested in Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. It is it just sort of a feeling of curiosity and interest. I was very interested in African history. I had taken some African history courses and I loved music from Africa and some of the then heads of state like Julius Nyerere and in Tanzania. And so I thought, that's where I want to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your family travel a lot before when you were in school or before then or had you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had not had much opportunity to travel. My dad had been in the Navy and the South Pacific in World War Two. And my sister and brother in law also were sort of a Navy family for a while and they were stationed in the Philippines. We couldn't really afford to travel. I had only had one other experience in college during one of the spring breaks, I had an opportunity to attend a conference in Kingston, Jamaica, for a week or so, which I did. And that was pretty exciting. And so I thought, yeah, I can do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were accepted, did they ask you or did you have a preference of what you would do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.033171877083978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. It is it just sort of a feeling of curiosity and interest. I was very interested in African history. I had taken some African history courses and I loved music from Africa and some of the then heads of state like Julius Nyerere and in Tanzania. And so I thought, that's where I want to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your family travel a lot before when you were in school or before then or had you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had not had much opportunity to travel. My dad had been in the Navy and the South Pacific in World War Two. And my sister and brother in law also were sort of a Navy family for a while and they were stationed in the Philippines. We couldn't really afford to travel. I had only had one other experience in college during one of the spring breaks, I had an opportunity to attend a conference in Kingston, Jamaica, for a week or so, which I did. And that was pretty exciting. And so I thought, yeah, I can do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were accepted, did they ask you or did you have a preference of what you would do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably yeah, I was not actually all that eager to be a teacher. I had visions of me doing something more, I don't know, profound, but oh, yes, I had some odd notions. But could I probably just because so many people were going in as teachers and especially English teachers and I sort of thought I can do that. Yeah, I studied economics. I want to do something that's, you know, more closely related to the profession I was aiming for because I was not really ever aiming to become a teacher as a profession for me. So this was get into the Peace Corps for the international experience and ultimately, you know, figure out what it is that they can have me do that would fit in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at that time, did you have an idea of what you wanted to be doing in the future?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.814635418982197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had not had much opportunity to travel. My dad had been in the Navy and the South Pacific in World War Two. And my sister and brother in law also were sort of a Navy family for a while and they were stationed in the Philippines. We couldn't really afford to travel. I had only had one other experience in college during one of the spring breaks, I had an opportunity to attend a conference in Kingston, Jamaica, for a week or so, which I did. And that was pretty exciting. And so I thought, yeah, I can do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were accepted, did they ask you or did you have a preference of what you would do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably yeah, I was not actually all that eager to be a teacher. I had visions of me doing something more, I don't know, profound, but oh, yes, I had some odd notions. But could I probably just because so many people were going in as teachers and especially English teachers and I sort of thought I can do that. Yeah, I studied economics. I want to do something that's, you know, more closely related to the profession I was aiming for because I was not really ever aiming to become a teacher as a profession for me. So this was get into the Peace Corps for the international experience and ultimately, you know, figure out what it is that they can have me do that would fit in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at that time, did you have an idea of what you wanted to be doing in the future?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did want to be an economist, and so I actually did have already have in mind that I thought what I would like to work for the World Bank or something like that and be involved in economic development in terms of policy, you know, government policy, economic policies, you know, building up infrastructure, building up, you know, all kinds of things to improve the well-being of people and in a poor country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you graduated from college and did thinking about that future vision of yourself, how did you see the Peace Corps fitting into that then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.682928243313553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably yeah, I was not actually all that eager to be a teacher. I had visions of me doing something more, I don't know, profound, but oh, yes, I had some odd notions. But could I probably just because so many people were going in as teachers and especially English teachers and I sort of thought I can do that. Yeah, I studied economics. I want to do something that's, you know, more closely related to the profession I was aiming for because I was not really ever aiming to become a teacher as a profession for me. So this was get into the Peace Corps for the international experience and ultimately, you know, figure out what it is that they can have me do that would fit in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at that time, did you have an idea of what you wanted to be doing in the future?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did want to be an economist, and so I actually did have already have in mind that I thought what I would like to work for the World Bank or something like that and be involved in economic development in terms of policy, you know, government policy, economic policies, you know, building up infrastructure, building up, you know, all kinds of things to improve the well-being of people and in a poor country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you graduated from college and did thinking about that future vision of yourself, how did you see the Peace Corps fitting into that then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I understood that it was definitely a good idea to build up some experience living and working abroad. And definitely, you know, since I had been sort of trying to just get hired directly into these positions and they I they wouldn't take me. So I understood that Peace Corps is probably my best bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. So where were you trained?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.497442275695745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I understood that it was definitely a good idea to build up some experience living and working abroad. And definitely, you know, since I had been sort of trying to just get hired directly into these positions and they I they wouldn't take me. So I understood that Peace Corps is probably my best bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. So where were you trained?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Peace Corps training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Colorado. We went to Colorado. It was for a week, I think. I think it was in June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where? University or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.441602528550828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Peace Corps training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Colorado. We went to Colorado. It was for a week, I think. I think it was in June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where? University or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was. It was actually up in the mountains. And they did that deliberately because Botswana is, you know, a fairly high plateau. And they wanted to give us a little taste of, you know, a relatively high altitude just in case that would be a problem for anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you finish your training, did you feel you were prepared for your assignment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.490669476167586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Colorado. We went to Colorado. It was for a week, I think. I think it was in June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where? University or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was. It was actually up in the mountains. And they did that deliberately because Botswana is, you know, a fairly high plateau. And they wanted to give us a little taste of, you know, a relatively high altitude just in case that would be a problem for anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you finish your training, did you feel you were prepared for your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I wasn't, but I thought I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how old were you then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.656299417963984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was. It was actually up in the mountains. And they did that deliberately because Botswana is, you know, a fairly high plateau. And they wanted to give us a little taste of, you know, a relatively high altitude just in case that would be a problem for anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you finish your training, did you feel you were prepared for your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I wasn't, but I thought I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how old were you then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "22."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "22. So you were very young then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.95144379773776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I wasn't, but I thought I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how old were you then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "22."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "22. So you were very young then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was right out of college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So what was your initial entry into the country to Botswana like? I mean, how did that happen?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.168270886375288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "22."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "22. So you were very young then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was right out of college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So what was your initial entry into the country to Botswana like? I mean, how did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was it was in a very unfortunate situation because President Seretse Khama, who is the father of the country, had just died and he had been president for quite a while and, you know, beloved in the country, as you know, the founding father of the modern country of Botswana. And so we arrived in a period of mourning in the country and they put us up. It was during the winter break for the University of Botswana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s where you were assigned?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.52030098486143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was right out of college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So what was your initial entry into the country to Botswana like? I mean, how did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was it was in a very unfortunate situation because President Seretse Khama, who is the father of the country, had just died and he had been president for quite a while and, you know, beloved in the country, as you know, the founding father of the modern country of Botswana. And so we arrived in a period of mourning in the country and they put us up. It was during the winter break for the University of Botswana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s where you were assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, no, we were that's where we started out for training, I think, in country language training and so on. So it was a period of mourning. And they asked us to, you know, be mindful of that and to not just, you know, be boisterous or rowdy or anything like that, to be respectful of the feelings of everybody. We're really, you know, this was a shock to the country and deep mourning. And so we really were constrained to, you know, behave in a way that would not disturb anybody's feelings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long were you in that sort of training program in country?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.31976982908311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the job. Yes. I was supposed to be a math teacher in what they called a community secondary school. So they already had a number of government secondary schools scattered around the country. But they really didn't have the capacity to take in the numbers of students. There was demand. And so they started on sort of another tier of education, which would be somewhat subsidized. But it was really up to the community to start up these schools and to bring them together. So in this community, Mahalapye, the founder of the school, was actually also the head of the opposition party and a communist, Communist Party. And he started up this community secondary school. But I mean, he's not the kind of communist who is like, you know, die hard Soviet or anything like that. He was just of, you know, more of a Marxist philosopher, shall we say, and he was delighted to hear that he could get some Peace Corps teachers to come and teach in his school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was, this is the principal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He wasn't the principal. He was the like the superintendent. But he was the he was sort of the founder, the sponsor of the school. And then he hired a principal and there was a board and then they hired teachers. And so the school was relatively young already. It was only a couple of years old. And my and other Peace Corps volunteer and I were the first Americans first volunteers, outsiders to be brought into that particular school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was in which town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mahalapye."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mahalapye. OK, so can you help us understand some of the experiences that you had during that placement? Or that was just that you didn't actually this is that still training? Where were you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.910855365647899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He wasn't the principal. He was the like the superintendent. But he was the he was sort of the founder, the sponsor of the school. And then he hired a principal and there was a board and then they hired teachers. And so the school was relatively young already. It was only a couple of years old. And my and other Peace Corps volunteer and I were the first Americans first volunteers, outsiders to be brought into that particular school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was in which town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mahalapye."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mahalapye. OK, so can you help us understand some of the experiences that you had during that placement? Or that was just that you didn't actually this is that still training? Where were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, know, that was that was the actual teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The actual teaching. So can you share with us some of the experiences you had during your two years there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.456505961830999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mahalapye."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mahalapye. OK, so can you help us understand some of the experiences that you had during that placement? Or that was just that you didn't actually this is that still training? Where were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, know, that was that was the actual teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The actual teaching. So can you share with us some of the experiences you had during your two years there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a mixed bag. And so it started out they had recruited me as a math teacher. But when I got there, I it was we found out that they actually had math teachers, but they were short on teachers for a subject that they called development studies. And this would be like in the United States social studies. But it was in the context of a developing country. And but it was a similar mix of history, geography, sociology, economics, you know, an introductory social studies course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us a little bit about the school or the number of students and where you lived. And how that all worked."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.951673290923332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, know, that was that was the actual teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The actual teaching. So can you share with us some of the experiences you had during your two years there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a mixed bag. And so it started out they had recruited me as a math teacher. But when I got there, I it was we found out that they actually had math teachers, but they were short on teachers for a subject that they called development studies. And this would be like in the United States social studies. But it was in the context of a developing country. And but it was a similar mix of history, geography, sociology, economics, you know, an introductory social studies course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us a little bit about the school or the number of students and where you lived. And how that all worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, boy, that's a long story. The school the school was responsible for our housing. That was that was their contribution to having Peace Corps volunteers, teachers there. So they rented a compound that had two huts in it. I and I went with another guy who had been in the same incoming Peace Corps group, Joel Simon, and he was teaching science. And so there were two huts there. There was a cement block and sort of two room tin roof hut and a smaller mud walled thatch hot. And I decided I, I would actually prefer the mud walled thatch hut, that being thatch being actually a nicer insulation than a tin roof. And also I thought it was more authentic and cozy and all these things. So I got the mud hut and then we shared an outhouse in the back and there was a standpipe in the front."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The standpipe for water?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5018592121370355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a mixed bag. And so it started out they had recruited me as a math teacher. But when I got there, I it was we found out that they actually had math teachers, but they were short on teachers for a subject that they called development studies. And this would be like in the United States social studies. But it was in the context of a developing country. And but it was a similar mix of history, geography, sociology, economics, you know, an introductory social studies course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us a little bit about the school or the number of students and where you lived. And how that all worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, boy, that's a long story. The school the school was responsible for our housing. That was that was their contribution to having Peace Corps volunteers, teachers there. So they rented a compound that had two huts in it. I and I went with another guy who had been in the same incoming Peace Corps group, Joel Simon, and he was teaching science. And so there were two huts there. There was a cement block and sort of two room tin roof hut and a smaller mud walled thatch hot. And I decided I, I would actually prefer the mud walled thatch hut, that being thatch being actually a nicer insulation than a tin roof. And also I thought it was more authentic and cozy and all these things. So I got the mud hut and then we shared an outhouse in the back and there was a standpipe in the front."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The standpipe for water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Water. Yeah. So no running, no running water in either of the houses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you were just in the one house in this hut?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.113176902374484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, boy, that's a long story. The school the school was responsible for our housing. That was that was their contribution to having Peace Corps volunteers, teachers there. So they rented a compound that had two huts in it. I and I went with another guy who had been in the same incoming Peace Corps group, Joel Simon, and he was teaching science. And so there were two huts there. There was a cement block and sort of two room tin roof hut and a smaller mud walled thatch hot. And I decided I, I would actually prefer the mud walled thatch hut, that being thatch being actually a nicer insulation than a tin roof. And also I thought it was more authentic and cozy and all these things. So I got the mud hut and then we shared an outhouse in the back and there was a standpipe in the front."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The standpipe for water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Water. Yeah. So no running, no running water in either of the houses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you were just in the one house in this hut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hut, yeah. One room. Mine was one room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are they round or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.792418780416093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Water. Yeah. So no running, no running water in either of the houses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you were just in the one house in this hut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hut, yeah. One room. Mine was one room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are they round or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was called a rondavel. And it was it was round. It was just big enough for a single bed, a table, a bookshelf, a little two burner cookstove. That was really it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about nighttime? What did you? Could you see? Was it light?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.547131978240103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hut, yeah. One room. Mine was one room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are they round or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was called a rondavel. And it was it was round. It was just big enough for a single bed, a table, a bookshelf, a little two burner cookstove. That was really it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about nighttime? What did you? Could you see? Was it light?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to rely on kerosene lanterns and candles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The petromax or whatever you call them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.385702198044559, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was called a rondavel. And it was it was round. It was just big enough for a single bed, a table, a bookshelf, a little two burner cookstove. That was really it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about nighttime? What did you? Could you see? Was it light?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to rely on kerosene lanterns and candles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The petromax or whatever you call them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had these sort of gas burner things where you would put in a mantle and the gas would flow through the mantle and you would light that. And that could be very bright. But they were kind of fragile. And if they got knocked around, then it would break and you'd have to get a new mantle. So I was sort of I sort of gave up on that. And so I was more of a good old fashioned kerosene lantern and candles. And that's what I used for light. Yeah. And I'd have to take a bucket out the standpipe outside and haul in the water. So if I wanted to bathe, there was a big galvanized tub and what I would do is I would bring in the water, put it into a pot, a regular cooking pot on the stove, warm up some hot water, mix it with some cool water in a little basin and sit in this galvanized tub."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your thatched hut."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.206335775605066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to rely on kerosene lanterns and candles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The petromax or whatever you call them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had these sort of gas burner things where you would put in a mantle and the gas would flow through the mantle and you would light that. And that could be very bright. But they were kind of fragile. And if they got knocked around, then it would break and you'd have to get a new mantle. So I was sort of I sort of gave up on that. And so I was more of a good old fashioned kerosene lantern and candles. And that's what I used for light. Yeah. And I'd have to take a bucket out the standpipe outside and haul in the water. So if I wanted to bathe, there was a big galvanized tub and what I would do is I would bring in the water, put it into a pot, a regular cooking pot on the stove, warm up some hot water, mix it with some cool water in a little basin and sit in this galvanized tub."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your thatched hut."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in my thatched hut. And do a really glorified sponge bath. That was it most days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was for two years?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.118150861783406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had these sort of gas burner things where you would put in a mantle and the gas would flow through the mantle and you would light that. And that could be very bright. But they were kind of fragile. And if they got knocked around, then it would break and you'd have to get a new mantle. So I was sort of I sort of gave up on that. And so I was more of a good old fashioned kerosene lantern and candles. And that's what I used for light. Yeah. And I'd have to take a bucket out the standpipe outside and haul in the water. So if I wanted to bathe, there was a big galvanized tub and what I would do is I would bring in the water, put it into a pot, a regular cooking pot on the stove, warm up some hot water, mix it with some cool water in a little basin and sit in this galvanized tub."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your thatched hut."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in my thatched hut. And do a really glorified sponge bath. That was it most days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was for two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Better part of two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been a good experience."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.131278735314895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in my thatched hut. And do a really glorified sponge bath. That was it most days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was for two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Better part of two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been a good experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was interesting. I did hire out laundry. I tried at one point to do my own laundry and very quickly discovered that, you know, it was just I didn't have the calluses that you would need on your hands. It was you know, I was getting blisters. And so I hired that out to a neighbor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess, was there such a thing as cleaning or do you just use a broom?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.256976372572105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Better part of two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been a good experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was interesting. I did hire out laundry. I tried at one point to do my own laundry and very quickly discovered that, you know, it was just I didn't have the calluses that you would need on your hands. It was you know, I was getting blisters. And so I hired that out to a neighbor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess, was there such a thing as cleaning or do you just use a broom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Around the house, you know, you're on your own. This is just one room. I mean, you know, how much work is it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I've never experienced that, so."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.507751525080115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was interesting. I did hire out laundry. I tried at one point to do my own laundry and very quickly discovered that, you know, it was just I didn't have the calluses that you would need on your hands. It was you know, I was getting blisters. And so I hired that out to a neighbor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess, was there such a thing as cleaning or do you just use a broom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Around the house, you know, you're on your own. This is just one room. I mean, you know, how much work is it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I've never experienced that, so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just a broom and rags to dust and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are there some experiences you had with your students?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.2194463272594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just a broom and rags to dust and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are there some experiences you had with your students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found it really challenging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In particular, well the classes were pretty big. They were usually about 35 to 38. I think somewhere along the line I probably had a class of maybe 40 for a while and in in theory the kids were sort of strange. So they did have sort of, you know, classes that were considered to be higher level students in it, mostly meaning that these were kids who spoke reasonable English and understood English reasonably well. But then other classes, the kids were, you know, struggling more with English. And I had to teach in English my Setswana. I did learn Setswana, but only a bit. And I wasn't fluent in it. And in any event, they wanted you to teach in English. This was kind of what they wanted. So I would have to, you know, slow down quite a bit. It took a while for me to figure out how to speak in a way that the students could understand, because if I were just rattling along like this, like an American kid, I just thought, like, la la la. And I could figure out that that they didn't really a lot of them didn't understand. So and you'd start out and you'd say something like, do you understand? And then they would all say, yes ma, but you would you know, you get the sense that this wasn't true.\n\nAnd eventually I I figured out that I should pause more often. And if I asked that question, I said, do you understand? If they said, yes ma, then that meant no. But if they said, ehey ma, then I knew, oh actually yes. That then they were you know, they were more enthusiastic. And that was they were actually responding in really their own language, Setswana. And that was actually an indication that they did understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were these what were you students from that area?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.688273696954887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found it really challenging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In particular, well the classes were pretty big. They were usually about 35 to 38. I think somewhere along the line I probably had a class of maybe 40 for a while and in in theory the kids were sort of strange. So they did have sort of, you know, classes that were considered to be higher level students in it, mostly meaning that these were kids who spoke reasonable English and understood English reasonably well. But then other classes, the kids were, you know, struggling more with English. And I had to teach in English my Setswana. I did learn Setswana, but only a bit. And I wasn't fluent in it. And in any event, they wanted you to teach in English. This was kind of what they wanted. So I would have to, you know, slow down quite a bit. It took a while for me to figure out how to speak in a way that the students could understand, because if I were just rattling along like this, like an American kid, I just thought, like, la la la. And I could figure out that that they didn't really a lot of them didn't understand. So and you'd start out and you'd say something like, do you understand? And then they would all say, yes ma, but you would you know, you get the sense that this wasn't true.\n\nAnd eventually I I figured out that I should pause more often. And if I asked that question, I said, do you understand? If they said, yes ma, then that meant no. But if they said, ehey ma, then I knew, oh actually yes. That then they were you know, they were more enthusiastic. And that was they were actually responding in really their own language, Setswana. And that was actually an indication that they did understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were these what were you students from that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were. Like, yeah, they were from the town or nearby villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the distribution of boys and girls? I mean, was it about equal?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.899103329573933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were. Like, yeah, they were from the town or nearby villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the distribution of boys and girls? I mean, was it about equal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was about equal. And in fact, if anything in Botswana, it might have been a slight, slightly higher number of girls because the boys tended to be sent off, you know, at the age of 10 or 11, they were more likely to be sent off to the cattle posts. And girls were allowed essentially to stay home and continue with their education. So there was a slight majority of girls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how do you think you were received by the other teachers, particularly the Botswana teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess that was sort of a mix of some of them I got along with very well. And they were helpful and supportive. Others of them were a little more standoffish, you might say. And there was, you know, like any organization there, there was they had their own internal politics. And so we weren't really part of that. And I don't think anyone really expected us to, really. But there were sort of factions and clicks and so on. And so we just sort of tried to stay out of that. But it was you know, it was not healthy for the school to have that kind of free action within the ranks of the teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we're just two Peace Corps volunteers there at?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.332337032859924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was about equal. And in fact, if anything in Botswana, it might have been a slight, slightly higher number of girls because the boys tended to be sent off, you know, at the age of 10 or 11, they were more likely to be sent off to the cattle posts. And girls were allowed essentially to stay home and continue with their education. So there was a slight majority of girls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how do you think you were received by the other teachers, particularly the Botswana teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess that was sort of a mix of some of them I got along with very well. And they were helpful and supportive. Others of them were a little more standoffish, you might say. And there was, you know, like any organization there, there was they had their own internal politics. And so we weren't really part of that. And I don't think anyone really expected us to, really. But there were sort of factions and clicks and so on. And so we just sort of tried to stay out of that. But it was you know, it was not healthy for the school to have that kind of free action within the ranks of the teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we're just two Peace Corps volunteers there at?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First year, and then we got some more. So the school was growing and so we got another Peace Corps volunteer. And then there was also a Canadian who showed up. A couple Canadians, I think so. These were where we have. And we got a couple of British towards the end. A couple of British, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there a town is this right in a town or was it near?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.472021028222128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First year, and then we got some more. So the school was growing and so we got another Peace Corps volunteer. And then there was also a Canadian who showed up. A couple Canadians, I think so. These were where we have. And we got a couple of British towards the end. A couple of British, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there a town is this right in a town or was it near?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right on the edge. Yeah, right on the edge of a town and it was a big town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's big?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mahalapye, depending upon the season. If it was you know, if they, if people were out in their fields, that was one thing. But in the in the winter months, it would be close to forty thousand, which is really big. But it was at the time it was still considered a quote unquote traditional village just because there was nothing much modern there. I mean, the rail line was going through there in the main highway was going through there and it was actually designated as a place that should become more modern and that the government would sort of invest in the infrastructure to encourage more modern economic activities. But at the time we were there, it was, you know, that was just barely starting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So does that mean that the town didn't have electricity or running water or sewage?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.191134475802365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right on the edge. Yeah, right on the edge of a town and it was a big town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's big?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mahalapye, depending upon the season. If it was you know, if they, if people were out in their fields, that was one thing. But in the in the winter months, it would be close to forty thousand, which is really big. But it was at the time it was still considered a quote unquote traditional village just because there was nothing much modern there. I mean, the rail line was going through there in the main highway was going through there and it was actually designated as a place that should become more modern and that the government would sort of invest in the infrastructure to encourage more modern economic activities. But at the time we were there, it was, you know, that was just barely starting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So does that mean that the town didn't have electricity or running water or sewage?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely. No central sewage or anything. There was the main street essentially, which just came right off the highway and the train went through there. So that immediate downtown, I think had maybe a handful of just streetlights and probably in the train station they may have had in the bank. Yeah there were two banks. They may have had, you know, some running water there and a couple of general stores and they had refrigeration and lights. But for the most part, it was just tiny. It was you could count the buildings that had that on your fingers and that was it. And then everybody else, it was much more traditional and no electricity, no running water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had time for a vacation, I assume?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.101260528669293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mahalapye, depending upon the season. If it was you know, if they, if people were out in their fields, that was one thing. But in the in the winter months, it would be close to forty thousand, which is really big. But it was at the time it was still considered a quote unquote traditional village just because there was nothing much modern there. I mean, the rail line was going through there in the main highway was going through there and it was actually designated as a place that should become more modern and that the government would sort of invest in the infrastructure to encourage more modern economic activities. But at the time we were there, it was, you know, that was just barely starting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So does that mean that the town didn't have electricity or running water or sewage?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely. No central sewage or anything. There was the main street essentially, which just came right off the highway and the train went through there. So that immediate downtown, I think had maybe a handful of just streetlights and probably in the train station they may have had in the bank. Yeah there were two banks. They may have had, you know, some running water there and a couple of general stores and they had refrigeration and lights. But for the most part, it was just tiny. It was you could count the buildings that had that on your fingers and that was it. And then everybody else, it was much more traditional and no electricity, no running water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had time for a vacation, I assume?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us a little about some of your experiences, or what you did during vacation time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.668067254076993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely. No central sewage or anything. There was the main street essentially, which just came right off the highway and the train went through there. So that immediate downtown, I think had maybe a handful of just streetlights and probably in the train station they may have had in the bank. Yeah there were two banks. They may have had, you know, some running water there and a couple of general stores and they had refrigeration and lights. But for the most part, it was just tiny. It was you could count the buildings that had that on your fingers and that was it. And then everybody else, it was much more traditional and no electricity, no running water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had time for a vacation, I assume?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us a little about some of your experiences, or what you did during vacation time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first vacation, that could be a long story. I won't give you the long story. Four of us got together and decided we wanted to go to Tanzania and we wanted to take the train. And it was a bit of an adventure. So we went into Zimbabwe by train and then we had to take a bus to Zambia. And in Lusaka, I think we needed yet another bus to get to Kapiri Mposhi. And then there was we got on the rail and that was the new Tazara railroad built by the Chinese. And that was only a couple of years old. But they were there were some organizational problems and the trains were actually not running all the way through. They would take you to the border and then you'd have to get off and buy a new ticket and wait for the next train to come to pick you up. So they had to train for just sort of meeting each other in the middle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was to take it, what, two days or so to just do that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.297852504529992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us a little about some of your experiences, or what you did during vacation time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first vacation, that could be a long story. I won't give you the long story. Four of us got together and decided we wanted to go to Tanzania and we wanted to take the train. And it was a bit of an adventure. So we went into Zimbabwe by train and then we had to take a bus to Zambia. And in Lusaka, I think we needed yet another bus to get to Kapiri Mposhi. And then there was we got on the rail and that was the new Tazara railroad built by the Chinese. And that was only a couple of years old. But they were there were some organizational problems and the trains were actually not running all the way through. They would take you to the border and then you'd have to get off and buy a new ticket and wait for the next train to come to pick you up. So they had to train for just sort of meeting each other in the middle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was to take it, what, two days or so to just do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the better part of a week to get to Dar es Salaam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to get there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.997613893922214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first vacation, that could be a long story. I won't give you the long story. Four of us got together and decided we wanted to go to Tanzania and we wanted to take the train. And it was a bit of an adventure. So we went into Zimbabwe by train and then we had to take a bus to Zambia. And in Lusaka, I think we needed yet another bus to get to Kapiri Mposhi. And then there was we got on the rail and that was the new Tazara railroad built by the Chinese. And that was only a couple of years old. But they were there were some organizational problems and the trains were actually not running all the way through. They would take you to the border and then you'd have to get off and buy a new ticket and wait for the next train to come to pick you up. So they had to train for just sort of meeting each other in the middle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was to take it, what, two days or so to just do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the better part of a week to get to Dar es Salaam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to get there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And then we got robbed on the way. Like I said, this is an adventure, but we threw ourselves at the mercy of the Tanzania Peace Corps and they were able to give us an advance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get robbed? I mean, what was that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.775126548802458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the better part of a week to get to Dar es Salaam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to get there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And then we got robbed on the way. Like I said, this is an adventure, but we threw ourselves at the mercy of the Tanzania Peace Corps and they were able to give us an advance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get robbed? I mean, what was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Changing, you know, at the at the train and bus stations, this was a place where, you know, thieves would hang out and they were well organized. So it was just aggressive pickpockets. But it was very you know, it was really just, nothing subtle. It's not like sneaking into your pocket. It was grab, grab and run. It will grab and hand off to the next guy and run. And so I, let's see. I think I might have lost, they ripped a watch off my wrist, while other others of them. One person lost a passport. And then, you know, some traveler's checks and money got missing and so on, so we know it was an adventure and we went to. We often would go to Zimbabwe for like long weekends because that wasn't too far. You could get there easily by train on an overnight train."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was, what, 1981?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.639029498669398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And then we got robbed on the way. Like I said, this is an adventure, but we threw ourselves at the mercy of the Tanzania Peace Corps and they were able to give us an advance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get robbed? I mean, what was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Changing, you know, at the at the train and bus stations, this was a place where, you know, thieves would hang out and they were well organized. So it was just aggressive pickpockets. But it was very you know, it was really just, nothing subtle. It's not like sneaking into your pocket. It was grab, grab and run. It will grab and hand off to the next guy and run. And so I, let's see. I think I might have lost, they ripped a watch off my wrist, while other others of them. One person lost a passport. And then, you know, some traveler's checks and money got missing and so on, so we know it was an adventure and we went to. We often would go to Zimbabwe for like long weekends because that wasn't too far. You could get there easily by train on an overnight train."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was, what, 1981?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it had just become Zimbabwe and it just, you know, had its election and Robert Mugabe had just been elected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the transition hadn't totally occurred yet?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.487810554077107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Changing, you know, at the at the train and bus stations, this was a place where, you know, thieves would hang out and they were well organized. So it was just aggressive pickpockets. But it was very you know, it was really just, nothing subtle. It's not like sneaking into your pocket. It was grab, grab and run. It will grab and hand off to the next guy and run. And so I, let's see. I think I might have lost, they ripped a watch off my wrist, while other others of them. One person lost a passport. And then, you know, some traveler's checks and money got missing and so on, so we know it was an adventure and we went to. We often would go to Zimbabwe for like long weekends because that wasn't too far. You could get there easily by train on an overnight train."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was, what, 1981?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it had just become Zimbabwe and it just, you know, had its election and Robert Mugabe had just been elected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the transition hadn't totally occurred yet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, well, he was in power. But yes, it was brand new. That was a very interesting experience too. But yeah. So we’d go there and we also made a trip to Swaziland, which meant we had to go through South Africa, which was when it was still under apartheid. And so that was very eye-opening experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And but did you do that by car or truck?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.542011726752342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it had just become Zimbabwe and it just, you know, had its election and Robert Mugabe had just been elected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the transition hadn't totally occurred yet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, well, he was in power. But yes, it was brand new. That was a very interesting experience too. But yeah. So we’d go there and we also made a trip to Swaziland, which meant we had to go through South Africa, which was when it was still under apartheid. And so that was very eye-opening experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And but did you do that by car or truck?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, bus and train. But we also did hitchhiking and so on the way back, we were hitchhiking. And yet more adventures, nothing too serious, but sort of getting lost, ending up in some little dorp."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so it was just like, did you say four of you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 22.824457474169268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, well, he was in power. But yes, it was brand new. That was a very interesting experience too. But yeah. So we’d go there and we also made a trip to Swaziland, which meant we had to go through South Africa, which was when it was still under apartheid. And so that was very eye-opening experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And but did you do that by car or truck?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, bus and train. But we also did hitchhiking and so on the way back, we were hitchhiking. And yet more adventures, nothing too serious, but sort of getting lost, ending up in some little dorp."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so it was just like, did you say four of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were, yeah. We would do it in groups of three or four, maybe two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But so any other experiences on vacation time that you thought were interesting?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.393233312131583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I know that because they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew some of these people personally then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew some of our language teachers and a couple of them died. And a couple of them died. And I don't know for sure, you know, specifically named students because I didn't really stay in touch with the students. But there were definitely, it was known that some of the teachers were sleeping with some of the students and the whole area, as I said, on the main railroad and road network with, you know, truckers going up and down and so on. So it was one of the hardest hit areas in the world actually. Botswana was one of the hardest hit countries and Mahalapye and that whole corridor, transport corridor, was one of the hardest hit in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any Peace Corps volunteers come back and come in specifically to work in the AIDS area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was not our group, but afterwards yes, my understanding is yes, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that would be very traumatic. Also in term of your tour of service, are there some things that when you look back, you regret?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.325805333294918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is in other assignments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. And it was you know, these were serious risks. Actually, this is one other thing I wanted to share on the record. I was lucky, I never had any really serious problems. But as you probably know, most Peace Corps volunteers at the very beginning, they’re sent for a village live-in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we all were. Ours was actually even a little longer because they were, you know, they were having trouble juggling with this whole situation, with the mourning over President Khama."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A village live-in means live with a family in the community to sensitize you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.028672592549909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. And it was you know, these were serious risks. Actually, this is one other thing I wanted to share on the record. I was lucky, I never had any really serious problems. But as you probably know, most Peace Corps volunteers at the very beginning, they’re sent for a village live-in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we all were. Ours was actually even a little longer because they were, you know, they were having trouble juggling with this whole situation, with the mourning over President Khama."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A village live-in means live with a family in the community to sensitize you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a week. Yeah. And you would get your language training in the context of being able to practice with, you know, a family. And so I was there and I was assigned to a family and we got there in the late afternoon and we, you know, we had food with us as a contribution to the household. And so this was a family compound with, you know, three or four huts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These mud with the thatch?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.566262459938159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a week. Yeah. And you would get your language training in the context of being able to practice with, you know, a family. And so I was there and I was assigned to a family and we got there in the late afternoon and we, you know, we had food with us as a contribution to the household. And so this was a family compound with, you know, three or four huts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These mud with the thatch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly, yeah, I think one of them, the father had a smaller, well a cement block house, but nothing very big. But I got there and so I had, you know, a bag, a suitcase. And the next thing I know, they're bringing the suitcase into the father's hut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your suitcase?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My suitcase. And they're bringing a bed, a cot into his bedroom. And I, I was, you know, saying, oh my god, no, no, this is not right. So I went off to find one of the official Peace Corps language teachers who was also in the same village as a number of us. So there was maybe a half a dozen of us or eight or so. And then so I went to Buntle, her name, and I said Buntle, they're trying to put me in the same bed, hut and bedroom with the father. And she said, oh that's not good. And so she went in and there was, you know, a long talk, long talk, long talk. And eventually one of the boys brought my bag out and into another little hut and moved the cot over there. But this guy, you know, this is the father of the household. And he had really wanted me to his room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was his expectation."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.341064765355751, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My suitcase. And they're bringing a bed, a cot into his bedroom. And I, I was, you know, saying, oh my god, no, no, this is not right. So I went off to find one of the official Peace Corps language teachers who was also in the same village as a number of us. So there was maybe a half a dozen of us or eight or so. And then so I went to Buntle, her name, and I said Buntle, they're trying to put me in the same bed, hut and bedroom with the father. And she said, oh that's not good. And so she went in and there was, you know, a long talk, long talk, long talk. And eventually one of the boys brought my bag out and into another little hut and moved the cot over there. But this guy, you know, this is the father of the household. And he had really wanted me to his room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was his expectation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was his expectation. And now he was unhappy. And so I had wanted to be moved. You know, I don't want to be in this situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they, the response, you know, the Peace Corps response was, oh no, that would be offensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tough it out."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.378960850395279, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was his expectation. And now he was unhappy. And so I had wanted to be moved. You know, I don't want to be in this situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they, the response, you know, the Peace Corps response was, oh no, that would be offensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tough it out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I had to stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my god."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.36911861402442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I survived. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's an interesting story. Well, on the flip side of that, what were some of the most meaningful relationships that you felt you had with the students or the community that you were with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I liked, we had some very nice neighbors that I liked, and some of the teachers that I worked with were really wonderful, very welcoming and supportive. The teachers, you know, very dedicated and professional. I wish there had been more of them. The teachers in particular, you know, like I said, that was that was there was sort of constant friction in that school. The neighbors were very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But let me ask, how many teachers were the ballpark total in the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would say 16, 18."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's quite a few."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.410131793360465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I liked, we had some very nice neighbors that I liked, and some of the teachers that I worked with were really wonderful, very welcoming and supportive. The teachers, you know, very dedicated and professional. I wish there had been more of them. The teachers in particular, you know, like I said, that was that was there was sort of constant friction in that school. The neighbors were very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But let me ask, how many teachers were the ballpark total in the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would say 16, 18."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's quite a few."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it was growing and we helped we help with plans to expand the school. And so one of the things I was able to do, aside from just teaching, just teaching, I shouldn't say that, was putting together a grant proposal for the school to expand. So that was one time when I sort of felt like I was putting my economic skills to work and it did happen. And we eventually went back there in 2013. And so I saw that, yes, they actually had expanded the school. And that was, hey, look at that! They really did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So could you say what you learned most from the people who you worked with?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.858172014128502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, in school, okay. I forgot that total in the school, let me think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this went from what, first grade to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this is like junior, junior secondary school, so it would be it would be equivalent to our seventh, eighth, ninth grade. And there were probably, I'm guessing, in the ballpark of 250 students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that cohort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In those grades."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Wow. And then they went on to a high school?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3979689045872234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this is like junior, junior secondary school, so it would be it would be equivalent to our seventh, eighth, ninth grade. And there were probably, I'm guessing, in the ballpark of 250 students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that cohort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In those grades."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Wow. And then they went on to a high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would either go on to transfer into a government secondary school to finish up. So they would have done what do you call it, O levels?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they on the British system?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.997743227319137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In those grades."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Wow. And then they went on to a high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would either go on to transfer into a government secondary school to finish up. So they would have done what do you call it, O levels?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they on the British system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Roughly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't do the Cambridge though, did they?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.664159141465707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would either go on to transfer into a government secondary school to finish up. So they would have done what do you call it, O levels?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they on the British system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Roughly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't do the Cambridge though, did they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. So it would be roughly on the level of I think, all levels. And then if they wanted their A-levels, they would have to go into a government or private secondary school or they would go into trade school. So my husband was teaching in a what they call the brigades, which is basically a trade school with a live-in apprenticeship program sort of built in. So they would have the class work in the morning and had hands-on contract work. It was on-the-job training contract, which they did. So they were bringing in money and they were supposed to be self-financing. And in my husband's case it was, but it was it was hard to keep that going too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you speak a little bit about what had been the long-term impacts? I mean, you're now retired and you're able to think back on not only to say how many years ago it's been, but what do you think are some of the longer term impacts that have resulted from your involvement, the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.40462126829523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Roughly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't do the Cambridge though, did they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. So it would be roughly on the level of I think, all levels. And then if they wanted their A-levels, they would have to go into a government or private secondary school or they would go into trade school. So my husband was teaching in a what they call the brigades, which is basically a trade school with a live-in apprenticeship program sort of built in. So they would have the class work in the morning and had hands-on contract work. It was on-the-job training contract, which they did. So they were bringing in money and they were supposed to be self-financing. And in my husband's case it was, but it was it was hard to keep that going too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you speak a little bit about what had been the long-term impacts? I mean, you're now retired and you're able to think back on not only to say how many years ago it's been, but what do you think are some of the longer term impacts that have resulted from your involvement, the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh. Well, I mean, I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Both on yourself and on those and let's say your family."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.116245853661367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. So it would be roughly on the level of I think, all levels. And then if they wanted their A-levels, they would have to go into a government or private secondary school or they would go into trade school. So my husband was teaching in a what they call the brigades, which is basically a trade school with a live-in apprenticeship program sort of built in. So they would have the class work in the morning and had hands-on contract work. It was on-the-job training contract, which they did. So they were bringing in money and they were supposed to be self-financing. And in my husband's case it was, but it was it was hard to keep that going too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you speak a little bit about what had been the long-term impacts? I mean, you're now retired and you're able to think back on not only to say how many years ago it's been, but what do you think are some of the longer term impacts that have resulted from your involvement, the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh. Well, I mean, I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Both on yourself and on those and let's say your family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My family. Well, my husband, you know, we ended up getting together when we were both in the same village in my Mahalapye. And so we have that shared experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is he Botswanan?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.054645489643001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or going back, any of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was one, um, one of my former language teachers that I was in touch with very briefly, because he was a journalist in the capital city. And I was back there once or twice professionally and didn't actually get together with him again. He is another one who was suffering from AIDS. So he was, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Under therapy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he was struggling, you know, health wise. And others of them, as I said, died of AIDS earlier, you know, because that hit that hit Botswana so hard and so fast. So a lot of people remember, died before there was really an effective treatment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Wow."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.616272766270001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was one, um, one of my former language teachers that I was in touch with very briefly, because he was a journalist in the capital city. And I was back there once or twice professionally and didn't actually get together with him again. He is another one who was suffering from AIDS. So he was, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Under therapy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he was struggling, you know, health wise. And others of them, as I said, died of AIDS earlier, you know, because that hit that hit Botswana so hard and so fast. So a lot of people remember, died before there was really an effective treatment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, yeah, some of the some of the other Peace Corps volunteers, yeah, I've been in touch with some of them and that's fun too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Old war stories. Have you gone back to Botswana?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.9069697403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he was struggling, you know, health wise. And others of them, as I said, died of AIDS earlier, you know, because that hit that hit Botswana so hard and so fast. So a lot of people remember, died before there was really an effective treatment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, yeah, some of the some of the other Peace Corps volunteers, yeah, I've been in touch with some of them and that's fun too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Old war stories. Have you gone back to Botswana?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So professionally a couple of times in the ‘90s. Yeah, late ‘80s, early ‘90s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this with the World Bank?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.118855267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, yeah, some of the some of the other Peace Corps volunteers, yeah, I've been in touch with some of them and that's fun too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Old war stories. Have you gone back to Botswana?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So professionally a couple of times in the ‘90s. Yeah, late ‘80s, early ‘90s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this with the World Bank?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First with a consulting firm. Also with the World Bank. And then my husband and I both went back there for a holiday vacation in 2013 and did another little safari. Oh, we did another safari. Oh my god, I forgot to tell you about the other safari that we did in the Okavango Delta, which was really amazing. But oh well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when you went back, did you go up to your old go back to your old town?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.22947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But it now had more modern amenities in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Electricity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Water, hopefully."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. Quite a bit more. But you could still see this sort of hollowing out of middle aged people because so many had died of AIDS. You know, this was you know, it was noticeable, the absence of, you know, people my age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, no that’s. And men and women?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Water, hopefully."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. Quite a bit more. But you could still see this sort of hollowing out of middle aged people because so many had died of AIDS. You know, this was you know, it was noticeable, the absence of, you know, people my age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, no that’s. And men and women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no question."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9869999999999997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. Quite a bit more. But you could still see this sort of hollowing out of middle aged people because so many had died of AIDS. You know, this was you know, it was noticeable, the absence of, you know, people my age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, no that’s. And men and women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then babies."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.43, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then babies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Orphans. There were a lot of orphans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, right. Right. Do you continue to be involved in the Peace Corps in any way?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then babies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Orphans. There were a lot of orphans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, right. Right. Do you continue to be involved in the Peace Corps in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot. But I did go down to the, there was a big event launching this new museum, if you will, an event at the Kennedy Center a couple of months ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, when they had that film?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Orphans. There were a lot of orphans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, right. Right. Do you continue to be involved in the Peace Corps in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot. But I did go down to the, there was a big event launching this new museum, if you will, an event at the Kennedy Center a couple of months ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, when they had that film?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Oh yeah. Some people find it great to continue involvement with the Peace Corps, others don't. Why do you think? You did that, but not a strong thing."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Oh yeah. Some people find it great to continue involvement with the Peace Corps, others don't. Why do you think? You did that, but not a strong thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some people, some of my friends actually came back here and ended up working as professionals in the Peace Corps administration for a period of time. And so they have, they've formed more of a network, if you will, a tighter network, I would say. The rest of us, you know, we're just scattered. We're so far apart. But yeah, it is actually with Facebook has been, you know, made it easier to find and connect again with some of them. And that's been nice. And the guy who shared the compound with me, you know, I sort of lost touch with him. He married another Peace Corps volunteer who had been part of our group, and they settled in New Jersey. And when we were taking our daughter around to visit schools, we went to Pratt because she was interested in art school. And, you know, that was their big day of having lots of people come and look at it as a prospective college location, and we bumped into them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Serendipitously."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my gosh, wow."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00137:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some people, some of my friends actually came back here and ended up working as professionals in the Peace Corps administration for a period of time. And so they have, they've formed more of a network, if you will, a tighter network, I would say. The rest of us, you know, we're just scattered. We're so far apart. But yeah, it is actually with Facebook has been, you know, made it easier to find and connect again with some of them. And that's been nice. And the guy who shared the compound with me, you know, I sort of lost touch with him. He married another Peace Corps volunteer who had been part of our group, and they settled in New Jersey. And when we were taking our daughter around to visit schools, we went to Pratt because she was interested in art school. And, you know, that was their big day of having lots of people come and look at it as a prospective college location, and we bumped into them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Serendipitously."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my gosh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We immediately as soon as we were all finished, we said, oh we have to have lunch together. And we did. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for taking time to do this interview, and I think people will find it very interesting."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 59.559182867168204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. I'd never thought of space, although I'd taken a course in space. I was really a dyed-in-the-wool airplane man and had never thought of anything [else] in particular. In fact, I was so busy up until the roof fell in, that what was going on in the rest of the world wasn't always clear. We were working seven days a week, three shifts, and I only had enough people to cover about a shift and a half about six days. So it was a lot of overtime and on call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware of Sputnik and what was going on with the Russian space agency at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not aware of it in any sense beyond noticing it in the newspapers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts when you learned that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I had much reaction whatsoever. As I say, we were so buried in trying to get this Arrow going, that I didn't have much reaction to it at all. And I don't think there was that much reaction in Canada either, in general. It was, \"Oh, yes. One of those interesting things.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now Mr. Mathews and Mr. Gilruth were inviting you to come to America and be a part of this whole new program. Did they give you any idea what you'd be doing when you came to work for them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 59.51020318574245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not aware of it in any sense beyond noticing it in the newspapers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts when you learned that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I had much reaction whatsoever. As I say, we were so buried in trying to get this Arrow going, that I didn't have much reaction to it at all. And I don't think there was that much reaction in Canada either, in general. It was, \"Oh, yes. One of those interesting things.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now Mr. Mathews and Mr. Gilruth were inviting you to come to America and be a part of this whole new program. Did they give you any idea what you'd be doing when you came to work for them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. [Laughter] All I knew was that they were starting off this ambitious program which I'd read a little bit about, Project Mercury, and that I'd probably be working for Chuck Mathews, who was going to head up the—or was heading up the Operations Division. Other than that, it was, \"Well, this is the only game in town, so I guess I'd better join it.\" [Laughter]\\n\\n And so there were about twenty-five of us went down, roughly, and this was probably when the basic Manned Space Task Group had only about twenty-five engineers, who almost all of them had come from Langley. I think one of them or two of them had come from other NASA centers, plus the seven original astronauts had just been named, so it was the original core of what's now the big Manned Spacecraft Center. It was kind of exciting. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The goals and expectations that the Space Task Group had, as you said, was for this great new adventure and a great new program. How did you feel about all those? Did you ever have a doubt that as part of this group you'd be able to fulfill all those goals and reach those?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 66.12244798415827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I had much reaction whatsoever. As I say, we were so buried in trying to get this Arrow going, that I didn't have much reaction to it at all. And I don't think there was that much reaction in Canada either, in general. It was, \"Oh, yes. One of those interesting things.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now Mr. Mathews and Mr. Gilruth were inviting you to come to America and be a part of this whole new program. Did they give you any idea what you'd be doing when you came to work for them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. [Laughter] All I knew was that they were starting off this ambitious program which I'd read a little bit about, Project Mercury, and that I'd probably be working for Chuck Mathews, who was going to head up the—or was heading up the Operations Division. Other than that, it was, \"Well, this is the only game in town, so I guess I'd better join it.\" [Laughter]\\n\\n And so there were about twenty-five of us went down, roughly, and this was probably when the basic Manned Space Task Group had only about twenty-five engineers, who almost all of them had come from Langley. I think one of them or two of them had come from other NASA centers, plus the seven original astronauts had just been named, so it was the original core of what's now the big Manned Spacecraft Center. It was kind of exciting. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The goals and expectations that the Space Task Group had, as you said, was for this great new adventure and a great new program. How did you feel about all those? Did you ever have a doubt that as part of this group you'd be able to fulfill all those goals and reach those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took it as a big challenge, having worked in the aircraft industry with prototypes, the Jetliner and the CF-100 and the CF-105. I said, \"Here's another challenge.\" [Laughter] A big one, but I like doing new things like that. It certainly was a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a very new thing."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 24, "return_to_go": 73.46938664906475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. [Laughter] All I knew was that they were starting off this ambitious program which I'd read a little bit about, Project Mercury, and that I'd probably be working for Chuck Mathews, who was going to head up the—or was heading up the Operations Division. Other than that, it was, \"Well, this is the only game in town, so I guess I'd better join it.\" [Laughter]\\n\\n And so there were about twenty-five of us went down, roughly, and this was probably when the basic Manned Space Task Group had only about twenty-five engineers, who almost all of them had come from Langley. I think one of them or two of them had come from other NASA centers, plus the seven original astronauts had just been named, so it was the original core of what's now the big Manned Spacecraft Center. It was kind of exciting. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The goals and expectations that the Space Task Group had, as you said, was for this great new adventure and a great new program. How did you feel about all those? Did you ever have a doubt that as part of this group you'd be able to fulfill all those goals and reach those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took it as a big challenge, having worked in the aircraft industry with prototypes, the Jetliner and the CF-100 and the CF-105. I said, \"Here's another challenge.\" [Laughter] A big one, but I like doing new things like that. It certainly was a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a very new thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And new, yes. And learning a lot. It was learning as you go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the transition from leaving Canada and moving down to the Langley area. Was that a smooth operation for you and your family?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 38.25947784538171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the down-range control team consisted of a capsule communicator who talked to the astronaut. He was responsible for determining the status of the overall mission at that point. The second one in the team was an engineer who was responsible for the status of the capsule. He [monitored] all the telemetry information regarding the environmental system and fuel systems and so forth. The third one was a doctor responsible for the status of the astronaut medical status. So here it was. They were responsible for how goes the mission, how goes the capsule, how goes the astronaut. That was the team.\\n\\n The non-medical flight controllers were pretty junior, and some of them had a little more experience. The Philco-Ford ones had a little more experience, but a lot of them were quite junior engineers. [But] medical people who had been recruited by Stan [Stanley C.] White, Dr. Stan White, Colonel Stan White, were senior. They were nothing less than a major. When I gave a briefing to the medical people about the team, the remote teams, there was one Navy captain who said, \"You mean I'm junior? I'm subordinate to those juniors,\" to the capsule communicator, who is the senior one. I said, \"Well, it's the same as an airplane pilot. Whoever is the pilot is in charge of the airplane, independent of his rank.\" That was the only time anybody tried to pull rank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's good news."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many teams did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were—I guess it was sixteen stations altogether, including the…[Mission Control Center and Bermuda], so that's fourteen. I think that's the right number. I'd have to go back and check.\\n\\n The Canary Islands; Kano, Nigeria; Zanzibar; Indian Ocean ship; Muchea in Australia; Woomera in Australia; Canton Island; Hawaii, on Kauai; Point Arguello in California; Guaymas, Mexico; and Corpus Christi, Texas. I think that's all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there one of those that was harder to staff than the rest of them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 41.3994198282019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many teams did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were—I guess it was sixteen stations altogether, including the…[Mission Control Center and Bermuda], so that's fourteen. I think that's the right number. I'd have to go back and check.\\n\\n The Canary Islands; Kano, Nigeria; Zanzibar; Indian Ocean ship; Muchea in Australia; Woomera in Australia; Canton Island; Hawaii, on Kauai; Point Arguello in California; Guaymas, Mexico; and Corpus Christi, Texas. I think that's all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there one of those that was harder to staff than the rest of them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What we did was, rather than stick somebody with a tour of duty on the Indian Ocean ship, which was an old World War II freighter converted, and it would take two weeks to get on station, two weeks on station, two weeks to get off station, and rather than stick the same controllers, what we did was we rotated them, you know. It was kind of tough to say, \"You're going to the Indian Ocean ship, and you're going to Hawaii.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd have a fall-out on rotation, did you, every time it came time to go to the Indian Ocean?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.269192613265645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess he survived the mission as well and did okay once he got there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never did find out how he got his suitcase open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess he didn't want to tell you everything. [Laughter] Well, I'm sure it was never a dull moment for you with everything going on."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.521325125850716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never did find out how he got his suitcase open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess he didn't want to tell you everything. [Laughter] Well, I'm sure it was never a dull moment for you with everything going on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the actual work that you did while the missions were up and away."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.579250139834127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never did find out how he got his suitcase open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess he didn't want to tell you everything. [Laughter] Well, I'm sure it was never a dull moment for you with everything going on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the actual work that you did while the missions were up and away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the time I was probably getting ready for the next one, trying to figure out—well, working on mission rules and so forth. Then I got a little involved with Apollo, but not much. Chris came to me one day and asked me to prepare a paper for the first briefing of industry on the Apollo Program, and what he wanted me to do was describe what the Mercury Mission Control organization and philosophies were, and how we were planning to do it, because in his mind things wouldn't change much in the future. A lot of details would change, but the philosophy would be the same. He wanted to make sure that industry understood the philosophy behind it.\\n\\n So he gave me some ideas for the paper, and I wrote the paper in detail, then gave the presentation, because there was a mission going on at the time. It was unclassified, but the publication was in two volumes, one unclassified and one classified. Unfortunately, my unclassified paper got included in the classified volume, and somebody swiped that volume from me years later, after it had been unclassified. So I don't have a copy of it. I've reconstructed it from drafts I had. I always wished I had a copy of the original."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess so, yes."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 21.754722377593474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the actual work that you did while the missions were up and away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the time I was probably getting ready for the next one, trying to figure out—well, working on mission rules and so forth. Then I got a little involved with Apollo, but not much. Chris came to me one day and asked me to prepare a paper for the first briefing of industry on the Apollo Program, and what he wanted me to do was describe what the Mercury Mission Control organization and philosophies were, and how we were planning to do it, because in his mind things wouldn't change much in the future. A lot of details would change, but the philosophy would be the same. He wanted to make sure that industry understood the philosophy behind it.\\n\\n So he gave me some ideas for the paper, and I wrote the paper in detail, then gave the presentation, because there was a mission going on at the time. It was unclassified, but the publication was in two volumes, one unclassified and one classified. Unfortunately, my unclassified paper got included in the classified volume, and somebody swiped that volume from me years later, after it had been unclassified. So I don't have a copy of it. I've reconstructed it from drafts I had. I always wished I had a copy of the original."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess so, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That briefing of industry was in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to share in that paper what you felt were the differences between, say, how the manned and the unmanned missions were done and how that would affect the future?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 28.585158325855012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have to train all of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're going to break for just a few minutes so that we can change the tape, and we'll go from there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So how are we doing? [Tape recorder turned off.]\\n\\n [Begin Tape 2, Side 1]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were planning and working toward all of the goals that you had, as you mentioned, you didn't treat the unmanned launches any different than you would if they were manned. Then the time came when it became a manned flight. Would you share with us the preparations for Alan Shepard's flight and what you were doing at the time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.06486952616567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We hoped so. One of the things we did was we rigged up a dummy world of remote stations in one of the big buildings nearby, NASA buildings that held a wind tunnel, one of their wind tunnels. With big wind tunnels, there's lots of space underneath the tunnel itself, usually, so we used that space to set up some remote stations with consoles, dummy consoles, and communications, and had them all hooked together and ran simulations with the Worldwide Network that way.\\n\\n Then the other aspect, of course, as I mentioned earlier, was using the missions to train—the unmanned mission and the chimp missions—to train everybody, including the station operators…as to what was coming and as to how they would react."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That mission was very significant to the space program, and from what we've read about you, also to you, because we understand right after the mission you opted to leave NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I left for personal reasons, nothing to do with NASA. I left almost immediately after John Glenn's flight and came up to Massachusetts to work for my old boss at AVRO, who had come to work for RCA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you made that decision prior to that mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What led you to make the decision to leave NASA at the beginning of this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 23.40541058462852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I left for personal reasons, nothing to do with NASA. I left almost immediately after John Glenn's flight and came up to Massachusetts to work for my old boss at AVRO, who had come to work for RCA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you made that decision prior to that mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What led you to make the decision to leave NASA at the beginning of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really, two parts to it. One had to do with both our parents were in Toronto and not in very good health. We didn't really want to move much further away than we were at Langley. That was one.\\n\\n The other aspect had to do with schools. We'd already made change in the schools to come down to—and that was a big change for the kids. If we had gone to Houston, the Manned Spacecraft Center wasn't ready, hadn't even started, and so they started their operation there from various rented, leased locations spread around town, which would have meant living in Houston and then later on moving up to the center area. That would mean two school moves, and I thought, \"Enough. One more is bad enough, but two is out of the question.\" So I was saying I didn't want to see my sixteen-year-old, oldest boy, say goodbye to his girlfriend again. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a nice dad. [Laughter]"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.228233982920578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What led you to make the decision to leave NASA at the beginning of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really, two parts to it. One had to do with both our parents were in Toronto and not in very good health. We didn't really want to move much further away than we were at Langley. That was one.\\n\\n The other aspect had to do with schools. We'd already made change in the schools to come down to—and that was a big change for the kids. If we had gone to Houston, the Manned Spacecraft Center wasn't ready, hadn't even started, and so they started their operation there from various rented, leased locations spread around town, which would have meant living in Houston and then later on moving up to the center area. That would mean two school moves, and I thought, \"Enough. One more is bad enough, but two is out of the question.\" So I was saying I didn't want to see my sixteen-year-old, oldest boy, say goodbye to his girlfriend again. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a nice dad. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a strange thing, small world. Three years ago I did some work for ARINC, Aeronautical Radio, Incorporated, down in Annapolis, Maryland. We were doing a big proposal for a Korean airport. I got to talking to the office manager, who turned out to be from Newport News. So I said, \"Oh, I used to live in Newport News, out in Stoneybrook.\" And he said, \"Oh, when I lived there, I knew a girl that lived there. Connie Ogle.\" Was my oldest boy's girlfriend. Now, is that a small world or is that a small world?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have some of your former AVRO colleagues as well as your new co-workers at NASA encourage you to come to Houston? Were they hoping you would come with them when they moved, to keep the team together?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.565720966568616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a strange thing, small world. Three years ago I did some work for ARINC, Aeronautical Radio, Incorporated, down in Annapolis, Maryland. We were doing a big proposal for a Korean airport. I got to talking to the office manager, who turned out to be from Newport News. So I said, \"Oh, I used to live in Newport News, out in Stoneybrook.\" And he said, \"Oh, when I lived there, I knew a girl that lived there. Connie Ogle.\" Was my oldest boy's girlfriend. Now, is that a small world or is that a small world?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have some of your former AVRO colleagues as well as your new co-workers at NASA encourage you to come to Houston? Were they hoping you would come with them when they moved, to keep the team together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim Chamberlin offered me a—I was a GS-15, I guess, at the time. He offered me a 16 to come work for him in his project office. He was working on Gemini at the time. It's not known as Gemini, really; it's \"Jim and I.\" Because he was the instigator. He was the guy that defined the configuration of Gemini. So we used to joke and say it's not Gemini; it's \"Jim and I.\"\\n\\n So he offered me a 16 to stay. I also got an offer, an unofficial offer, or preliminary offer, from headquarters to go up there. At the time I was a little leery of Washington. To me, Washington was an unknown, whereas I knew my old boss up here in Massachusetts, and had worked with him and for him for a number of years. That was more comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Now, before you left, did you feel the contributions you made would continue on and make quite a difference in the missions that were going to follow, to have a chance to test out those missions rules and those Flight Controller Handbooks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll let somebody else answer that question, what my contribution was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's answer the part, if you would, about the mission rules and the flight controller books."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.517467740631794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim Chamberlin offered me a—I was a GS-15, I guess, at the time. He offered me a 16 to come work for him in his project office. He was working on Gemini at the time. It's not known as Gemini, really; it's \"Jim and I.\" Because he was the instigator. He was the guy that defined the configuration of Gemini. So we used to joke and say it's not Gemini; it's \"Jim and I.\"\\n\\n So he offered me a 16 to stay. I also got an offer, an unofficial offer, or preliminary offer, from headquarters to go up there. At the time I was a little leery of Washington. To me, Washington was an unknown, whereas I knew my old boss up here in Massachusetts, and had worked with him and for him for a number of years. That was more comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Now, before you left, did you feel the contributions you made would continue on and make quite a difference in the missions that were going to follow, to have a chance to test out those missions rules and those Flight Controller Handbooks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll let somebody else answer that question, what my contribution was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's answer the part, if you would, about the mission rules and the flight controller books."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There will always be mission rules."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And serve their purpose well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.68607526736866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll let somebody else answer that question, what my contribution was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's answer the part, if you would, about the mission rules and the flight controller books."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There will always be mission rules."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And serve their purpose well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There would always be mission rules, and they would always evolve. Each mission would be a little bit different. For the remote controllers, there was always this panic of trying to get copies of the latest mission rules and the latest Flight Controller's Handbook ready, up to date at the point they were going to leave on an airplane. So that was finally solved. We finally got our own duplicating system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that came in handy."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.09563918596518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There will always be mission rules."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And serve their purpose well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There would always be mission rules, and they would always evolve. Each mission would be a little bit different. For the remote controllers, there was always this panic of trying to get copies of the latest mission rules and the latest Flight Controller's Handbook ready, up to date at the point they were going to leave on an airplane. So that was finally solved. We finally got our own duplicating system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that came in handy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because we have to remember these were days before computers, where you could make one word change."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.772932428850197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There would always be mission rules, and they would always evolve. Each mission would be a little bit different. For the remote controllers, there was always this panic of trying to get copies of the latest mission rules and the latest Flight Controller's Handbook ready, up to date at the point they were going to leave on an airplane. So that was finally solved. We finally got our own duplicating system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that came in handy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because we have to remember these were days before computers, where you could make one word change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yes. Fortunately, I had three secretaries to help out. I guess I had more secretaries than anybody else. But there were three secretaries there. One was familiar with the Worldwide Network and put messages on it and so forth, and the other two were general typists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And very busy typists, I'm sure."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.747702698722442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because we have to remember these were days before computers, where you could make one word change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yes. Fortunately, I had three secretaries to help out. I guess I had more secretaries than anybody else. But there were three secretaries there. One was familiar with the Worldwide Network and put messages on it and so forth, and the other two were general typists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And very busy typists, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But there were panics. People would come running in, \"How am I going to get this duplicated?\" [Laughter] This was before we got our own system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You left NASA and came to Massachusetts and joined RCA."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 33.05300299858049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yes. Fortunately, I had three secretaries to help out. I guess I had more secretaries than anybody else. But there were three secretaries there. One was familiar with the Worldwide Network and put messages on it and so forth, and the other two were general typists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And very busy typists, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But there were panics. People would come running in, \"How am I going to get this duplicated?\" [Laughter] This was before we got our own system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You left NASA and came to Massachusetts and joined RCA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how you went through that transition."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.57160864022282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how you went through that transition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One thing more before we quite get to that. I left and came to RCA, and subsequently there was a report, a document, put out on the results of John Glenn's flight, the first manned orbital, U.S. orbital flight. In it is a paper written by Chris Kraft, Tec Roberts, Gene Kranz, and myself, only I never wrote it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah-oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never contributed to it. Somebody on the team, perhaps Chris, added my name to it because I like to think sort of that because of what I had contributed to the thing. So I've got a copy of that, but, as I say, I didn't write it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you happy with what you didn't write? [Laughter]"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 43.968454044692024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One thing more before we quite get to that. I left and came to RCA, and subsequently there was a report, a document, put out on the results of John Glenn's flight, the first manned orbital, U.S. orbital flight. In it is a paper written by Chris Kraft, Tec Roberts, Gene Kranz, and myself, only I never wrote it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah-oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never contributed to it. Somebody on the team, perhaps Chris, added my name to it because I like to think sort of that because of what I had contributed to the thing. So I've got a copy of that, but, as I say, I didn't write it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you happy with what you didn't write? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was going to have your name on it. Were you okay with that? That's good."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 34.25762040319059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Frank Thomas is gone. Gene Duret is gone. Jim Chamberlin. Funny thing about Jim. I'll always remember Jim on Gemini, he disappeared to McDonnell for almost a month when they were first defining what Gemini should do. Came home in the middle of the night, everybody was asleep. He didn't want to wake them up, so he slept on the couch in the living room. He had to get up early in the morning and take a flight to New York, so he didn't want to disturb anybody in the morning, so he just quietly sneaked out of the house and went to the airport before anybody was up. His wife came down, and the only evidence that she had that he'd been home in a month was a pile of dirty laundry sitting in the middle of the room. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of these wives had a great amount of patience, didn't they."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Particularly astronauts' wives. They were away more than anybody. We lived right across the street from Wally Schirra's, and he was away more than he was home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that helped, being part of Stoneybrook extended family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, particularly with the three astronauts' wives there. They were very close. I saw Deke a couple of years ago. Deke's passed on, too. I saw Deke Slayton a few years ago at Reno Air Races. He had his little Formula One. You could put the airplane in this room. He was racing it in the Formula One race. I had a chance to talk to him for a bit, and that was the last time I'd seen him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that was a good time for both of you to renew those old friendships."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.95291155910066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Particularly astronauts' wives. They were away more than anybody. We lived right across the street from Wally Schirra's, and he was away more than he was home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that helped, being part of Stoneybrook extended family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, particularly with the three astronauts' wives there. They were very close. I saw Deke a couple of years ago. Deke's passed on, too. I saw Deke Slayton a few years ago at Reno Air Races. He had his little Formula One. You could put the airplane in this room. He was racing it in the Formula One race. I had a chance to talk to him for a bit, and that was the last time I'd seen him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that was a good time for both of you to renew those old friendships."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So anyway, at RCA then I got off into doing other things other than—oh, airplane-related, not space-related, I got involved in configuring and doing a selection for the next version of the Air Force's Advanced Airborne Command Post. They had a command post in EC-135s, and we put the first computer into an EC-135. So we did this study for which airplane should they have, an L-1011, a C-5A, a 747, DC-8, DC-8 stretched, and so forth. They finally picked the 747, so we did some further studies as to how to configure it and so forth.\\n\\n After that, most of my work was on other things like some intelligence systems and some automatic test systems and so forth. Then I got into doing their engineering procedures for RCA-Burlington [Massachusetts], and they ended up being adopted by GE Aerospace in general."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You started out at pursuing your interest in airplanes, and with RCA you were able to go back and work with that again."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 29.947679510111843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, particularly with the three astronauts' wives there. They were very close. I saw Deke a couple of years ago. Deke's passed on, too. I saw Deke Slayton a few years ago at Reno Air Races. He had his little Formula One. You could put the airplane in this room. He was racing it in the Formula One race. I had a chance to talk to him for a bit, and that was the last time I'd seen him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that was a good time for both of you to renew those old friendships."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So anyway, at RCA then I got off into doing other things other than—oh, airplane-related, not space-related, I got involved in configuring and doing a selection for the next version of the Air Force's Advanced Airborne Command Post. They had a command post in EC-135s, and we put the first computer into an EC-135. So we did this study for which airplane should they have, an L-1011, a C-5A, a 747, DC-8, DC-8 stretched, and so forth. They finally picked the 747, so we did some further studies as to how to configure it and so forth.\\n\\n After that, most of my work was on other things like some intelligence systems and some automatic test systems and so forth. Then I got into doing their engineering procedures for RCA-Burlington [Massachusetts], and they ended up being adopted by GE Aerospace in general."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You started out at pursuing your interest in airplanes, and with RCA you were able to go back and work with that again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, for a while there. At the end it got pretty far away from airplanes or space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now what are you doing to fill your busy days?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.314250129723886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Finally cut down to about three days a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly have had a diversity since the time from AVRO till the time now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. I don't think I've ever done anything the same twice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As long as it's correct each time, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back through your time with NASA, it seems so long ago, can you remember one of the greatest challenges that you had in that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.015833477470984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. I don't think I've ever done anything the same twice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As long as it's correct each time, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back through your time with NASA, it seems so long ago, can you remember one of the greatest challenges that you had in that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The biggest challenge, I sort of hinted at it earlier, was to keep your sense of humor. [Laughter] And not let it all get to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully you didn't have too many encounters with people who maybe didn't have as quick a sense of humor as yours."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.462037197189984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back through your time with NASA, it seems so long ago, can you remember one of the greatest challenges that you had in that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The biggest challenge, I sort of hinted at it earlier, was to keep your sense of humor. [Laughter] And not let it all get to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully you didn't have too many encounters with people who maybe didn't have as quick a sense of humor as yours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was only one instance where I had problems with people, and that was the worldwide range was under contract not to the Space Task Group, but was under contract to Langley Research Center Instrument Lab, instrument group, and they were the ones that put the solicitation out and the requirements out and got the bids back and so forth. We were party to the selection process and so forth, but it wasn't our contract.\\n\\n However, when it came time to evaluate the down-range system configuration for the flight controllers, the consoles and so forth, the contractor set up a—I think it was Westinghouse. I'm not sure now. Set it up at Wallops Island, and somebody from the Instrument Lab and myself went up to evaluate this, as to whether it was acceptable or not. He embarrassed me by stating that all contractors were crooks, and that he was going to make sure that they toed the line and they did things the way he wanted them to do. I accepted the station essentially as it was. I think there were a couple of minor comments I had. All of his comments were essentially ignored. But he was difficult to deal with. Everybody else I had no problems with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Glad to hear that, with such a varied career, that you were able to have good working conditions and good co-workers and such a good success."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.068930219099983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The biggest challenge, I sort of hinted at it earlier, was to keep your sense of humor. [Laughter] And not let it all get to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully you didn't have too many encounters with people who maybe didn't have as quick a sense of humor as yours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was only one instance where I had problems with people, and that was the worldwide range was under contract not to the Space Task Group, but was under contract to Langley Research Center Instrument Lab, instrument group, and they were the ones that put the solicitation out and the requirements out and got the bids back and so forth. We were party to the selection process and so forth, but it wasn't our contract.\\n\\n However, when it came time to evaluate the down-range system configuration for the flight controllers, the consoles and so forth, the contractor set up a—I think it was Westinghouse. I'm not sure now. Set it up at Wallops Island, and somebody from the Instrument Lab and myself went up to evaluate this, as to whether it was acceptable or not. He embarrassed me by stating that all contractors were crooks, and that he was going to make sure that they toed the line and they did things the way he wanted them to do. I accepted the station essentially as it was. I think there were a couple of minor comments I had. All of his comments were essentially ignored. But he was difficult to deal with. Everybody else I had no problems with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Glad to hear that, with such a varied career, that you were able to have good working conditions and good co-workers and such a good success."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Carol if she had any questions for you, if you don't mind.\n\nI have a couple of questions."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.85436691011109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was only one instance where I had problems with people, and that was the worldwide range was under contract not to the Space Task Group, but was under contract to Langley Research Center Instrument Lab, instrument group, and they were the ones that put the solicitation out and the requirements out and got the bids back and so forth. We were party to the selection process and so forth, but it wasn't our contract.\\n\\n However, when it came time to evaluate the down-range system configuration for the flight controllers, the consoles and so forth, the contractor set up a—I think it was Westinghouse. I'm not sure now. Set it up at Wallops Island, and somebody from the Instrument Lab and myself went up to evaluate this, as to whether it was acceptable or not. He embarrassed me by stating that all contractors were crooks, and that he was going to make sure that they toed the line and they did things the way he wanted them to do. I accepted the station essentially as it was. I think there were a couple of minor comments I had. All of his comments were essentially ignored. But he was difficult to deal with. Everybody else I had no problems with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Glad to hear that, with such a varied career, that you were able to have good working conditions and good co-workers and such a good success."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Carol if she had any questions for you, if you don't mind.\n\nI have a couple of questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of them, talking about the Worldwide Network, you mentioned a couple incidences here or there or events going on, and you talked about the arrangement with the Bermuda government, how there were certain arrangements there. When you were trying to set up that network and finding—one is, how did you pick the places to go, and then, two, did you have any problems with the other governments, with bringing people in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.615963233456768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Carol if she had any questions for you, if you don't mind.\n\nI have a couple of questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of them, talking about the Worldwide Network, you mentioned a couple incidences here or there or events going on, and you talked about the arrangement with the Bermuda government, how there were certain arrangements there. When you were trying to set up that network and finding—one is, how did you pick the places to go, and then, two, did you have any problems with the other governments, with bringing people in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the picking of the sites was done primarily by the contractor, a joint effort between the contractor, Langley Instrument Lab, who were letting contracts, and by the advice and inputs from the Ops Division, having to do with trajectories. It wasn't so much the flight control aspect having much to do with where the sites were, but the trajectory people in the Ops Division had a lot to say about where they should be, because they were the ones that would end up defining the coverage that the communications and radars would have for a given site. \"On this trajectory, oops, we missed that. If we put it there, we'll miss it.\" [Laughter] Okay? But if we put it there, it'll go right through the center of the station coverage. So they had a lot to do with it. Flight control didn't have much to do with it.\\n\\n The second part of your question was?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Setting it up, were there any problems with the other governments?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:156", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.80983115241576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the picking of the sites was done primarily by the contractor, a joint effort between the contractor, Langley Instrument Lab, who were letting contracts, and by the advice and inputs from the Ops Division, having to do with trajectories. It wasn't so much the flight control aspect having much to do with where the sites were, but the trajectory people in the Ops Division had a lot to say about where they should be, because they were the ones that would end up defining the coverage that the communications and radars would have for a given site. \"On this trajectory, oops, we missed that. If we put it there, we'll miss it.\" [Laughter] Okay? But if we put it there, it'll go right through the center of the station coverage. So they had a lot to do with it. Flight control didn't have much to do with it.\\n\\n The second part of your question was?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Setting it up, were there any problems with the other governments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other governments. That I don't know. That would have been—not that I know of. There was one instance, though, where the State Department gave us, when we started to get involved with the Worldwide Network, State Department gave us some suggested rules of conduct and so forth, as to how to operate in those. A State [Department] representative came down from Washington to give a briefing, in particular about Zanzibar, which there was a lot of unrest, as to what we should do if there was a coup or what have you. The interesting thing was that eventually they moved the station from out of Zanzibar, but before that, we had no problems. But he did. He was captured in a coup. The one that was coming, giving us the warning, was captured in a coup and held for some short period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully his advice paid off for himself, then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was thinking that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my. That's quite an interesting situation. Luckily, you didn't have any problems."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:158", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.677590169350843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other governments. That I don't know. That would have been—not that I know of. There was one instance, though, where the State Department gave us, when we started to get involved with the Worldwide Network, State Department gave us some suggested rules of conduct and so forth, as to how to operate in those. A State [Department] representative came down from Washington to give a briefing, in particular about Zanzibar, which there was a lot of unrest, as to what we should do if there was a coup or what have you. The interesting thing was that eventually they moved the station from out of Zanzibar, but before that, we had no problems. But he did. He was captured in a coup. The one that was coming, giving us the warning, was captured in a coup and held for some short period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully his advice paid off for himself, then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was thinking that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my. That's quite an interesting situation. Luckily, you didn't have any problems."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another question. You mentioned the Redstone was used in most of the early flights, but then for the orbital flights it moved into the Atlas. Was there much discussion or concern about the Atlas, and that in so many of the early tests—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.47506503482829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, eventually some people became citizens, so then they could use their American passport. I can still get a Canadian passport, but if I use it, I've got to go and exit from a Canadian port."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't have one, but I could get one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One last question from me. Even though you weren't involved with NASA and hadn't been for a while, did you watch the moon landing carefully, the Apollo 11 landing? Do you remember watching that at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think I watched it live. I did after the fact. There's an interesting thing, now that you bring this up. When I left AVRO, having been dumped by the government, I had a hard time thinking about airplanes or getting involved with them in any sense or fashion. I didn't want anything to do with airplanes. Just brought back too many memories. And it was sort of the same way at NASA, softened somewhat because I had contacts. I kept up contacts with so many of the guys and they kept sending me stuff and so on and so forth. But I had a hard time for a long, long time trying to really dig into what was going on, just simply because it brought back too many memories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's completely understandable. You'd put a lot of work into it, to make it all—\n\nCan you pick a favorite time of your career that you're really glad you had an opportunity to be a part of?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 21.638961149809212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't have one, but I could get one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One last question from me. Even though you weren't involved with NASA and hadn't been for a while, did you watch the moon landing carefully, the Apollo 11 landing? Do you remember watching that at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think I watched it live. I did after the fact. There's an interesting thing, now that you bring this up. When I left AVRO, having been dumped by the government, I had a hard time thinking about airplanes or getting involved with them in any sense or fashion. I didn't want anything to do with airplanes. Just brought back too many memories. And it was sort of the same way at NASA, softened somewhat because I had contacts. I kept up contacts with so many of the guys and they kept sending me stuff and so on and so forth. But I had a hard time for a long, long time trying to really dig into what was going on, just simply because it brought back too many memories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's completely understandable. You'd put a lot of work into it, to make it all—\n\nCan you pick a favorite time of your career that you're really glad you had an opportunity to be a part of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think it was all, right from the beginning. The whole thing was something I wouldn't want to give up at all. It was sort of like a mosaic, a little bit here, a little bit there, and a little bit somewhere else, and all made this big experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now we understanding you're going to be traveling in a couple of months to visit Canada. Can you tell us about those festivities and why they're so important to you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:176", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.850426817296585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "AVRO ceased to exist in the sixties, early sixties. It downsized with this big layoff in '59 and tried to struggle back, but didn't. The engine company is still in business. But in spite of this, they keep having reunions periodically, first flight of the Arrow, first flight of the C-100, what have you, or fortieth anniversary of the first flight of the Jetliner.\\n\\n This year it's the fiftieth anniversary of the first flight of the Jetliner, August 10, 1949, eight to ten years ahead of anything else flying. It was the second jet transport in the continent, I mean in the world. Comet beat us by two weeks to be the first in the world. I say they cheated; they just ran down the runway and lifted off and touched down again. But the chief designer is a little more polite than that, of the Jetliner; he says we were second.\\n\\n But anyway, it's the fiftieth anniversary of the first flight, so a year or so ago they had an anniversary for something on the Arrow and 600 people showed up. That's since 1959. So I don't know how many people will show up this year. I don't know. There are fewer people left involved with the Jetliner than there were with the Arrow, which was ten years later. So I expect about 200 people will probably show up, 200 or 300 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds like it's going to be a great time to be there and a chance to renew old friendships and maybe start a few new ones."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. So it will be interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We wish you a good time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. And I appreciate this opportunity to talk with you and put some of the thoughts and memories down so that other people can see some of the aspects of what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to much to offer, so we certainly appreciate the time that you've given us to collect some of those."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:178", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.167140908107315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. So it will be interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We wish you a good time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. And I appreciate this opportunity to talk with you and put some of the thoughts and memories down so that other people can see some of the aspects of what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to much to offer, so we certainly appreciate the time that you've given us to collect some of those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're welcome.\\n\\n [discussion of memorabilia, photos, models, etc. follows]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is the Project Mercury Flight Controller Handbook."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:180", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 12.407934342341461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. And I appreciate this opportunity to talk with you and put some of the thoughts and memories down so that other people can see some of the aspects of what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to much to offer, so we certainly appreciate the time that you've given us to collect some of those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're welcome.\\n\\n [discussion of memorabilia, photos, models, etc. follows]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is the Project Mercury Flight Controller Handbook."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were talking earlier about the Flight Controller Handbook and how it originated and so forth. When the first copy arrived from the printer's, it was distributed around among the flight controllers, and one of the flight controllers, Arnie Aldrich, came running into my office and saying, \"The cover! The cover! There's a mistake on it!\" And I looked at it and I looked at it and I looked at it, and I couldn't find it. Finally he pointed it out to me. It says \"National Aeronautical and Space Administration\" instead of \"National Aeronautics and Space Administration.\" And I never spotted it. So he said, \"What are we going to do? Are we going to get them to redo the covers?\" And I said, \"No. It took me so long to find the mistake, I don't think anybody else is going to notice it.\" So we distributed it, including headquarters and so forth. We never heard \"boo\" back from anybody. So I don't know whether anybody else other than Arnie ever caught it. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It showed he was a man for details."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:188", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.766703768238775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's the attitude control system, one of the modes. There's the automatic version of it. And here's the direct manual version of it and so forth. You can see what he can see and what he can do, and down here is some notes about the thing and so forth.\\n\\n We had to get this printed up by McDonnell. The government printing presses couldn't handle it. It's twelve different colors in here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Many, many years before color printers, that's for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So anyway, that's all the different—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed on the front page that this is copy number 65. Do you remember the original number, how many were distributed on the first—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That's the very first issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "December 1960. December first."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:190", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.851893075820861, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So anyway, that's all the different—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed on the front page that this is copy number 65. Do you remember the original number, how many were distributed on the first—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That's the very first issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "December 1960. December first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It went to all the astronauts, went to all the flight controllers, went to the project office, went to headquarters, and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These were controlled because they were issued?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:192", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.05765897313429, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That's the very first issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "December 1960. December first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It went to all the astronauts, went to all the flight controllers, went to the project office, went to headquarters, and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These were controlled because they were issued?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mentioned the trailer. Here's the trailer. This is all the technical description of the big trailer, that interim Mission Control Center. I've got some photographs of it somewhere. That doesn't mean much there without the—that's Arnie Aldrich. He's from Lexington, by the way. These are some pictures. There's the original astronauts. There they are again. I've got to put captions on some of these things. I'm not sure which one that is. Remember I told you about the \"JETT RETRO\"—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the \"FIRE RETRO.\""}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:194", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.175176636815877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It went to all the astronauts, went to all the flight controllers, went to the project office, went to headquarters, and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These were controlled because they were issued?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mentioned the trailer. Here's the trailer. This is all the technical description of the big trailer, that interim Mission Control Center. I've got some photographs of it somewhere. That doesn't mean much there without the—that's Arnie Aldrich. He's from Lexington, by the way. These are some pictures. There's the original astronauts. There they are again. I've got to put captions on some of these things. I'm not sure which one that is. Remember I told you about the \"JETT RETRO\"—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the \"FIRE RETRO.\""}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. \"FIRE RETRO,\" \"JETT RETRO.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could easily confuse those."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:196", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.41686292979542, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mentioned the trailer. Here's the trailer. This is all the technical description of the big trailer, that interim Mission Control Center. I've got some photographs of it somewhere. That doesn't mean much there without the—that's Arnie Aldrich. He's from Lexington, by the way. These are some pictures. There's the original astronauts. There they are again. I've got to put captions on some of these things. I'm not sure which one that is. Remember I told you about the \"JETT RETRO\"—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the \"FIRE RETRO.\""}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. \"FIRE RETRO,\" \"JETT RETRO.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could easily confuse those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And there's the trailer. There's the big trailer. Here's—where is it? Where did it go? There it is. It's got a little different model on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very small model. What scale is this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:198", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.796514366439354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. \"FIRE RETRO,\" \"JETT RETRO.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could easily confuse those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And there's the trailer. There's the big trailer. Here's—where is it? Where did it go? There it is. It's got a little different model on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very small model. What scale is this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very tiny scale of an 18-wheeler."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:202", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.032733785727597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very tiny scale of an 18-wheeler."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That isn't quite that trailer, but it's close enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Close enough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's Redstone on the launch pad. How simple the gantries are in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you witness many of the launches?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:204", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.925259761919552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That isn't quite that trailer, but it's close enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Close enough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's Redstone on the launch pad. How simple the gantries are in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you witness many of the launches?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Several of them. There's the Mission Control Center. Here's Arnie Aldrich again. There's the remote flight monitoring control station. There's the capsule communicator. There's the medical and there's the systems. The medical guy's got a strip chart recorder here, playing out EKGs [electrocardiogram] and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something so basic, but yet so important. It's just a small center here, but had to have it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:208", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.796616990024138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Several of them. There's the Mission Control Center. Here's Arnie Aldrich again. There's the remote flight monitoring control station. There's the capsule communicator. There's the medical and there's the systems. The medical guy's got a strip chart recorder here, playing out EKGs [electrocardiogram] and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something so basic, but yet so important. It's just a small center here, but had to have it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there's the simulator at Langley Field. I got in there one day and the operator, the trainer here, I was playing the part of an astronaut, and I didn't realize they could—I knew they could put some faults into the thing, but I didn't realize they could put smoke in there as well. All of a sudden I'm sitting there, and all of a sudden there's smoke starts to come up [around]. You never saw anybody get out of anything so fast in all your life. I'm standing over here. [Laughter]\\n\\n There's the Redstone launch blockhouse. That's where I was thinking of putting the stuff for the interim. This is John Glenn's—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Twentieth day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was off the teletype in my office. This is Saturn V. There are all my flight controllers from Philco-Ford."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your traveling crew. A lot of these are the traveling crew; they traveled everywhere."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:210", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.662907766693486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there's the simulator at Langley Field. I got in there one day and the operator, the trainer here, I was playing the part of an astronaut, and I didn't realize they could—I knew they could put some faults into the thing, but I didn't realize they could put smoke in there as well. All of a sudden I'm sitting there, and all of a sudden there's smoke starts to come up [around]. You never saw anybody get out of anything so fast in all your life. I'm standing over here. [Laughter]\\n\\n There's the Redstone launch blockhouse. That's where I was thinking of putting the stuff for the interim. This is John Glenn's—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Twentieth day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was off the teletype in my office. This is Saturn V. There are all my flight controllers from Philco-Ford."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your traveling crew. A lot of these are the traveling crew; they traveled everywhere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. A couple of them ended up down in the Mission Control Center, I think, but most of them were assigned around the world.\\n\\n I don't know what this is, but this is up in Nashua [New Hampshire]. I found it in the weeds a couple of years ago. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some former cabinet for—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:214", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.571491069991957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. A couple of them ended up down in the Mission Control Center, I think, but most of them were assigned around the world.\\n\\n I don't know what this is, but this is up in Nashua [New Hampshire]. I found it in the weeds a couple of years ago. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some former cabinet for—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something. There's guess who. There's Dennis [E.] Fielder. There's Bob Ernull, who was a first lieutenant in the Army, who was on loan to NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a globe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Look at that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:216", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 22.857212299991062, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something. There's guess who. There's Dennis [E.] Fielder. There's Bob Ernull, who was a first lieutenant in the Army, who was on loan to NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a globe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Look at that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A transparent globe. It's more than that. It's got the star. I guess the globe's down inside. I don't remember. This wasn't really my office. My office was across the hall. I don't know why I'm in this particular—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a great picture. It's okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:224", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.311404206662182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the Air Force for you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a loss.\n\nUnbelievable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's Wally Schirra's house across from ours. Our house was right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Dr. Gilruth. Did you have a chance to work with him very closely?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not particularly. He was pretty well far removed from the dirty everyday details of things. But I met him on an airplane several years after I'd left, and I was with RCA four or five years, I guess. So we were chatting, and he remembered I'd gone with RCA, and he said, \"You know, I get all sorts of people coming in here saying they're from RCA and want to do studies or work on things.\" He said, \"I've never been able to figure out RCA organization, who does what.\" This was because RCA was—each plant was its own profit center, so it had limited resources. It was tough for a big project to get these various resource centers together to bid on a big part of the project, so all these little individual profit center salesmen and so forth or engineers would wander in and say they were from RCA and they were representing one little part of it.\\n\\n There's them pulling Gus Grissom's thing out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you hear a report earlier this year that a gentleman had located the capsule?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.23489356295798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's Wally Schirra's house across from ours. Our house was right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Dr. Gilruth. Did you have a chance to work with him very closely?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not particularly. He was pretty well far removed from the dirty everyday details of things. But I met him on an airplane several years after I'd left, and I was with RCA four or five years, I guess. So we were chatting, and he remembered I'd gone with RCA, and he said, \"You know, I get all sorts of people coming in here saying they're from RCA and want to do studies or work on things.\" He said, \"I've never been able to figure out RCA organization, who does what.\" This was because RCA was—each plant was its own profit center, so it had limited resources. It was tough for a big project to get these various resource centers together to bid on a big part of the project, so all these little individual profit center salesmen and so forth or engineers would wander in and say they were from RCA and they were representing one little part of it.\\n\\n There's them pulling Gus Grissom's thing out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you hear a report earlier this year that a gentleman had located the capsule?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They haven't got it out yet. Betty Grissom doesn't want the—first of all, said she didn't want them to bring it up, and then she said, well, if they bring it up, she wants it preserved. No, that's Shepard's, because they never did pull Grissom's capsule out.\\n\\n That's Shepard's, too. There's Shepard climbing up into the helicopter. There he is. There he is there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's quite a job to hang out of the helicopter and take those pictures. [Laughter]"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.185039181012314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's Shepard's as well. These are all Shepard's. There it is, liftoff. There it is, liftoff as well. Here's a whole series of these. This is Grissom's flight. There's the helicopter trying to pull. See where he is in the water? He's got his wheels right in the water and he finally—and Gus is somewhere down in here. This one, you can't quite see him, but there's another picture somewhere that you can see him.\\n\\n There's Glenn. There's the Mission Control Center again. There's the telemetry back room. There's an anthropomorphic description of how you fit into your seat and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of John Glenn, did you watch his latest flight that was just in October?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I saw it on the TV. I was working at the time, but I saw it on TV afterwards. More power to him. [Laughter]\\n\\n Here's some more pictures. This is the old CF-100. This is the one, if I hadn't had a cold, when it crashed, I would have been in it.\\n\\n Here's the inside of a big Mission Control, the interim Mission Control thing, in a truck.\\n\\n Here's one that will make you laugh. \"I know your son is a genius, but I really don't think RCA can afford to start production on its proposal immediately. Plan for rocket. Spring for bouncy landings, one of Mom's dining room chairs, one million firecrackers.\" [Laughter] My son drew that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old was he when he drew that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sixteen, seventeen. Seventeen, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he inherited that sense of humor."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.761154645569237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I saw it on the TV. I was working at the time, but I saw it on TV afterwards. More power to him. [Laughter]\\n\\n Here's some more pictures. This is the old CF-100. This is the one, if I hadn't had a cold, when it crashed, I would have been in it.\\n\\n Here's the inside of a big Mission Control, the interim Mission Control thing, in a truck.\\n\\n Here's one that will make you laugh. \"I know your son is a genius, but I really don't think RCA can afford to start production on its proposal immediately. Plan for rocket. Spring for bouncy landings, one of Mom's dining room chairs, one million firecrackers.\" [Laughter] My son drew that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old was he when he drew that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sixteen, seventeen. Seventeen, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he inherited that sense of humor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's a vice president for Warner Brothers, works for Bugs Bunny, which is really weird, because when he was four years old I painted a four-foot Bugs Bunny on this bedroom wall. Now he works for him.\\n\\n There's the original spec for the interim Mission Control Center. That was from that diagram. That's what they went and built. They built all of that stuff I showed you earlier. If you compare it, it's pretty close.\\n\\n There's the Control Center layout of who sits where. There's Bermuda's version. I went back to Bermuda six years ago, called them up and said who I was, said, \"Can I come down, take a peek?\" They said, \"Come on down.\" Sent a car out for me because it's a secure area. They came out to the gate and got me and took me down. The site manager had been there all this time, since the station started, and he remembered me all this time later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty neat.\n\nIs this equipment somewhere still there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.401282939521373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sixteen, seventeen. Seventeen, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he inherited that sense of humor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's a vice president for Warner Brothers, works for Bugs Bunny, which is really weird, because when he was four years old I painted a four-foot Bugs Bunny on this bedroom wall. Now he works for him.\\n\\n There's the original spec for the interim Mission Control Center. That was from that diagram. That's what they went and built. They built all of that stuff I showed you earlier. If you compare it, it's pretty close.\\n\\n There's the Control Center layout of who sits where. There's Bermuda's version. I went back to Bermuda six years ago, called them up and said who I was, said, \"Can I come down, take a peek?\" They said, \"Come on down.\" Sent a car out for me because it's a secure area. They came out to the gate and got me and took me down. The site manager had been there all this time, since the station started, and he remembered me all this time later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty neat.\n\nIs this equipment somewhere still there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they closed it down last year. The station's closed now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder where it went off to."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.223647710579304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's a vice president for Warner Brothers, works for Bugs Bunny, which is really weird, because when he was four years old I painted a four-foot Bugs Bunny on this bedroom wall. Now he works for him.\\n\\n There's the original spec for the interim Mission Control Center. That was from that diagram. That's what they went and built. They built all of that stuff I showed you earlier. If you compare it, it's pretty close.\\n\\n There's the Control Center layout of who sits where. There's Bermuda's version. I went back to Bermuda six years ago, called them up and said who I was, said, \"Can I come down, take a peek?\" They said, \"Come on down.\" Sent a car out for me because it's a secure area. They came out to the gate and got me and took me down. The site manager had been there all this time, since the station started, and he remembered me all this time later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty neat.\n\nIs this equipment somewhere still there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they closed it down last year. The station's closed now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder where it went off to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I guess with all the satellite coverage, they don't need it.\\n\\n There is the trajectory plots at Bermuda. This is just a Redstone flight plan, tentative flight plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this your sketching?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:242", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.248497456199225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they closed it down last year. The station's closed now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder where it went off to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I guess with all the satellite coverage, they don't need it.\\n\\n There is the trajectory plots at Bermuda. This is just a Redstone flight plan, tentative flight plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this your sketching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I have no idea what date it is or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's a date right there. '59."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:244", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.276108284665803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I guess with all the satellite coverage, they don't need it.\\n\\n There is the trajectory plots at Bermuda. This is just a Redstone flight plan, tentative flight plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this your sketching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I have no idea what date it is or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's a date right there. '59."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'59. 5/6/59. This is that paper I told you that I wrote for the Apollo, and to the publications people it was under Kraft's name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We notice it's the Apollo Conference in Washington, July 18 through the 20th, 1961."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:246", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.306786982962002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I have no idea what date it is or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's a date right there. '59."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'59. 5/6/59. This is that paper I told you that I wrote for the Apollo, and to the publications people it was under Kraft's name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We notice it's the Apollo Conference in Washington, July 18 through the 20th, 1961."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's right. This was the draft that went into the pubs people to make up.\\n\\n This is the escape rocket.\\n\\n One of the things I did was, in the early days, I was named as the first chairman of the Cape Safety Committee. It soon became clear that you couldn't do this from up at Langley Field. It had to be somebody from the Cape to do it. So after the first meeting, somebody else picked the chore up. In the first meeting, one of the things we decided to do was to clear the area, the footprint where if you aborted off the pad, where would the capsule land, depending on the wind. So that made a footprint. The idea was to clear that footprint of all the mangrove and all the junk that was in there, because they found they couldn't get in. A rescue team just couldn't penetrate. So the first job was to clear that area out. In clearing it out, they found a six-foot snake.\\n\\n There's the capsule console again. There's the remote site again. I guess this is after Glenn's flight. There's the astronauts again. There's Gus. There's the capsule down there, and I think that's Gus, but I'm not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's one happy man to get aboard that carrier, wasn't he."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:254", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.404034420000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a list of the various kinds of training for the flight controllers. Here's the designation of flight directors: Chris Kraft, John Hodge, me, flight surgeon Stan White. I think it was John [James P.] Henry. No, it may have been Jim. I can't remember Henry's first name. He was the one in charge of all the chimpanzees and so forth. And Bill [William S.] Augerson. He was the first doctor for the astronauts. And Tom [Thomas V.] Chambers, he was from Toronto, from AVRO. Tec Roberts. Jack Cohen was from Toronto. Glynn [S.] Lunney. Howard [C.] Kyle. So that was back in 1960, first of 1960."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "February of 1960."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They were starting to get organized. This is George [M.] Low. He's passed away now. This was a conference after John. There's the big hotel on the peninsula. Here's the agenda for that NASA—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apollo thing. Here is the first Apollo mission design at the time. There's some of the astronauts. Here's some pictures. There's that thing again. Here's this operational flight control system I said that was wishful thinking on Huntsville's part. That's about it.\\n\\n But there's one interesting thing here. Another small world. This year I was working at AS&E, and talking to one of the physicists there whose father worked at Raytheon, and who had worked on the original concept for Apollo. This is a copy. He ran me off a copy of this hand-drawn thing. \"Three Basic Systems on Lunar Landing, Mission Profiles for Comparison.\" One of these has a LEM-like—yes, I guess that's the one with the LEM. Has it got a LEM on it? It isn't called LEM."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Over here it looks like there's something come up from the surface and docking."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:258", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.572882000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apollo thing. Here is the first Apollo mission design at the time. There's some of the astronauts. Here's some pictures. There's that thing again. Here's this operational flight control system I said that was wishful thinking on Huntsville's part. That's about it.\\n\\n But there's one interesting thing here. Another small world. This year I was working at AS&E, and talking to one of the physicists there whose father worked at Raytheon, and who had worked on the original concept for Apollo. This is a copy. He ran me off a copy of this hand-drawn thing. \"Three Basic Systems on Lunar Landing, Mission Profiles for Comparison.\" One of these has a LEM-like—yes, I guess that's the one with the LEM. Has it got a LEM on it? It isn't called LEM."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Over here it looks like there's something come up from the surface and docking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's not called the LEM. Isn't that interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's neat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, small world. This is a series of books called\\n\\n Canada Heirlooms: Wayfarers, Canadian Achievers\\n\\n , and there's a whole article in here about \"Canada's Gift to NASA.\" And it talks about Jim Chamberlin and so on. And here's my name in here somewhere. Photographs of NASA via me. My name's in here, Fred Matthews."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's really nice."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:260", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.08098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's not called the LEM. Isn't that interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's neat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, small world. This is a series of books called\\n\\n Canada Heirlooms: Wayfarers, Canadian Achievers\\n\\n , and there's a whole article in here about \"Canada's Gift to NASA.\" And it talks about Jim Chamberlin and so on. And here's my name in here somewhere. Photographs of NASA via me. My name's in here, Fred Matthews."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's really nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "John Hodge, Tec Roberts, so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "America was blessed with a great group of guys from Canada."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:264", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4580000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "John Hodge, Tec Roberts, so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "America was blessed with a great group of guys from Canada."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We tried our best. [Tape recorder turned off.]\\n\\n Here's the one I wrote. [Laughter] Flight control and flight plans. Didn't write.\\n\\n There was a whole bunch of Canadian and American legislatures came down for a briefing, and I gave a pitch to them. So I got a letter back from this Canadian senator, which I thought was kind of ironic, because he was one of the principal politicians who canceled the project that caused 14,000 people to get laid off. So I thought it was kind of ironic that he wrote me.\\n\\n Those are the little horses, wild horses on Chincoteague Island near Wallops Island, where each year they sell them off. They take the proceeds for the local—I think it's for the local fire departments or something.\\n\\n This is me in the Air Force. [Laughter] Years and years ago.\\n\\n Here's my reconstruction of that paper that somebody stole. As best I can tell, that's a fair reproduction of it. Fairly close. Yes, I was right. Sixteen stations. What's this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Medical support."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is the briefing to Lovelace Committee in Washington, medical briefing. I didn't know I had that. Here's the Navy doctor, flight surgeon who did the appendicitis operation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that sailor remembers him well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:266", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We tried our best. [Tape recorder turned off.]\\n\\n Here's the one I wrote. [Laughter] Flight control and flight plans. Didn't write.\\n\\n There was a whole bunch of Canadian and American legislatures came down for a briefing, and I gave a pitch to them. So I got a letter back from this Canadian senator, which I thought was kind of ironic, because he was one of the principal politicians who canceled the project that caused 14,000 people to get laid off. So I thought it was kind of ironic that he wrote me.\\n\\n Those are the little horses, wild horses on Chincoteague Island near Wallops Island, where each year they sell them off. They take the proceeds for the local—I think it's for the local fire departments or something.\\n\\n This is me in the Air Force. [Laughter] Years and years ago.\\n\\n Here's my reconstruction of that paper that somebody stole. As best I can tell, that's a fair reproduction of it. Fairly close. Yes, I was right. Sixteen stations. What's this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Medical support."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is the briefing to Lovelace Committee in Washington, medical briefing. I didn't know I had that. Here's the Navy doctor, flight surgeon who did the appendicitis operation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that sailor remembers him well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll bet so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a good thing he was there."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:268", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is the briefing to Lovelace Committee in Washington, medical briefing. I didn't know I had that. Here's the Navy doctor, flight surgeon who did the appendicitis operation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that sailor remembers him well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll bet so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a good thing he was there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These are just all miscellaneous stuff. This is the safety thing. I was chairman of the first one, but later on somebody from the Cape took it over.\\n\\n Here's some flight controller information. Here's the stuff that I mentioned about the briefing notes for guidance of personnel assigned to overseas locations, put out by the State Department and briefed to us by the guy that got captured. [Laughter]\\n\\n There's the look-see at trying to stuff our things into the Redstone blockhouse, which I said, \"Isn't enough room. Can't do that.\" So I gave up on that.\\n\\n There is an overview of the various teams. There's a remote team and so forth. And so it goes. More and more. There's the presentation that Arnie Aldrich and I gave to McDonnell, to tell them how to hook up the—there it is. Flight monitoring trailer. How to hook it up to the rest of the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What I think is so interesting, all these documents that you're showing us, they're all mostly drawn by hand and very carefully, where nowadays we just do everything on the computer."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:272", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These are just all miscellaneous stuff. This is the safety thing. I was chairman of the first one, but later on somebody from the Cape took it over.\\n\\n Here's some flight controller information. Here's the stuff that I mentioned about the briefing notes for guidance of personnel assigned to overseas locations, put out by the State Department and briefed to us by the guy that got captured. [Laughter]\\n\\n There's the look-see at trying to stuff our things into the Redstone blockhouse, which I said, \"Isn't enough room. Can't do that.\" So I gave up on that.\\n\\n There is an overview of the various teams. There's a remote team and so forth. And so it goes. More and more. There's the presentation that Arnie Aldrich and I gave to McDonnell, to tell them how to hook up the—there it is. Flight monitoring trailer. How to hook it up to the rest of the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What I think is so interesting, all these documents that you're showing us, they're all mostly drawn by hand and very carefully, where nowadays we just do everything on the computer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fascinating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's an interesting document. Gilruth. Bob Gilruth. This is when he was in NACA, probably a struggling engineer in NACA back in his early days of working for Langley Research Center. There's no date on it, either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is report number 715."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00372:274", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fascinating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here's an interesting document. Gilruth. Bob Gilruth. This is when he was in NACA, probably a struggling engineer in NACA back in his early days of working for Langley Research Center. There's no date on it, either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is report number 715."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or is there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that 1941?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 30.644667952522546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think that we were all shocked about it. I certainly was. You know, we hadn’t contemplated anything like that. And here was a routine test on the pad. Who would have suspected anything like that was going to happen in that particular environment. And I think it was a shock that it happened. I think it provided resolve in all of us that we were going to continue and do the things we had to do to accomplish President Kennedy’s edict that we were going to go to the Moon and safely come back before the decade was over. Recognizing we had a problem, the ability to correct and do something about it, and a strong desire to continue with that commitment. Because we could have very easily said, “Well, this isn’t worth it.” But it is worth it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. And it seems like that was a really extensive project for you to be involved with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m sure it was. It was about that time, of course, when I finished my Gemini career in September of ’66, I was reassigned right away to an Apollo crew. So we were involved in that. I was part of Jim [James A.] McDivitt’s crew as a backup Command Module pilot. So were immediately involved in taking the second, excuse me, it was the third Command Module but the first Lunar Module into flight on Apollo 9. So we were happily involved with all of that activity. And we were very concerned with about the weight of the Lunar Module. It was overweight like some of us are today. And we had to go through a super weight reduction program. So that, of course, delayed some of the early Lunar Module flights to the Moon because they were overweight and didn’t have the capability to perform a lunar landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering if we could go back a little bit to Gemini?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can go back to anywhere you want."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And talk about some of your experience on Gemini. And I understand that you were assigned as part of the backup crew of Gemini 8. And what was your work like in preparing for that mission? Did you work very closely with Neil [A.] Armstrong and Dave [David R.] Scott?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.219277476790957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. OK. That was basically the reason for Gemini. And my first crew assignment was backup Gemini 8 with Pete Conrad. And, of course, Neil Armstrong and Dave Scott flew that flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you work with mission control after you found out that Armstrong and Scott had been gyrating wildly after they got …?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was actually in Mission Control at the time. We seemed to gravitate toward there and stay up when the crew stayed up. As the backup crew, you're usually behind Capcom, Capsule Communicator. I don't know why they would call it capsule anymore but I guess we still do. But we were there to help them. Interpreting what the crew was doing and where they were at that particular time. That was a little hairy if that is the proper word to describe the event as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they were in trouble. We didn't really realize that at the time but when we got a look at the revolution rate that they were experiencing and that thruster staying on, until they got that under control, they had a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you available to help them in any way?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 29.132530529767728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was actually in Mission Control at the time. We seemed to gravitate toward there and stay up when the crew stayed up. As the backup crew, you're usually behind Capcom, Capsule Communicator. I don't know why they would call it capsule anymore but I guess we still do. But we were there to help them. Interpreting what the crew was doing and where they were at that particular time. That was a little hairy if that is the proper word to describe the event as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they were in trouble. We didn't really realize that at the time but when we got a look at the revolution rate that they were experiencing and that thruster staying on, until they got that under control, they had a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you available to help them in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh nope, just sitting there helping the Mission Control sort that thing out. And actually they had that problem out of, I think if I recall correctly, basically out of communication. They solved it and they solved it by using the reentry control system. When they came back AOS situation, acquisition of signal. When we learned that they had indeed activated the recovery system, well that was the end of the flight. They were obligated to reenter at the first opportunity. The only Gemini flight that landed in the Pacific Ocean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then, moving on. You went onto become a pilot on Gemini 12 then, I'm sorry, Gemini 11?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 29.036145033075254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they were in trouble. We didn't really realize that at the time but when we got a look at the revolution rate that they were experiencing and that thruster staying on, until they got that under control, they had a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you available to help them in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh nope, just sitting there helping the Mission Control sort that thing out. And actually they had that problem out of, I think if I recall correctly, basically out of communication. They solved it and they solved it by using the reentry control system. When they came back AOS situation, acquisition of signal. When we learned that they had indeed activated the recovery system, well that was the end of the flight. They were obligated to reenter at the first opportunity. The only Gemini flight that landed in the Pacific Ocean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then, moving on. You went onto become a pilot on Gemini 12 then, I'm sorry, Gemini 11?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deke [Donald K. Slayton] had a, apparently, a three flight rotational system set up for crews rotating from prime to backup which didn't hold true in all cases because every now and then, he’d slip somebody else in as he did on our backup crew. I flew our backup on 8. Three more flights later, I was prime on 11. Consequently, it happened with my experience in the Apollo program as well. So we came off the backup crew for 8 and were immediately assigned to Gemini 11."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your experience like on 11. Once you got up, I understand, you conducted one of two EVAs [Extravehicular Activity]. And on your first, particular, EVA, I understand that you did some work in trying to create artificial gravity. And I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind elaborating on that EVA and part of your mission?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.24211986825552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m almost sitting back here trying to figure out what we did use. We had the ground providing calculations and the other way we did was to calculate angles against time and I had charts. And I would look into, kind of lookup, enter here, exit here, type thing that would give us the velocity correction that we needed for rendezvousing. And of course, we got that information from the rendezvous radar that was in the Gemini spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did your work on Gemini 11, as far as rendezvous and docking were concerned, really help you out in your mission on Apollo as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost identical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, except, of course, in Apollo you had a partner in the other vehicle that was doing the reciprocal calculations. So then you compared notes. So basically, the techniques were virtually the same. So we, Pete and I, have always felt very comfortable with that kind of rendezvous because it was the only thing we really worked at. Of course, when I worked on backup on 8 and 9, they did things a little different too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then I’d like to ask you a little bit about your transition into Apollo. You had mentioned earlier how you were working with the modules themselves and their development. How did you find your transition between the Gemini and Apollo programs since Apollo was already underway once you’d finished up with Gemini 11?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 33.6023554091728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost identical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, except, of course, in Apollo you had a partner in the other vehicle that was doing the reciprocal calculations. So then you compared notes. So basically, the techniques were virtually the same. So we, Pete and I, have always felt very comfortable with that kind of rendezvous because it was the only thing we really worked at. Of course, when I worked on backup on 8 and 9, they did things a little different too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then I’d like to ask you a little bit about your transition into Apollo. You had mentioned earlier how you were working with the modules themselves and their development. How did you find your transition between the Gemini and Apollo programs since Apollo was already underway once you’d finished up with Gemini 11?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a transition between the two. I was working on the spacecraft and its design on Apollo. I was taken off of that and put in a Gemini. I mean I was assigned to a flight crew. So I was working on Apollo for a period of time up until we started training for Gemini 8, and then I sat on a flight crew. And from that time on, I was on a flight crew until I retired, or virtually until I retired. So then when Gemini 11 flight had finished in September of ’66 then we were right back in the Apollo, picking up virtually on where we had left off before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the training, at all, any different?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.113728232414225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, except, of course, in Apollo you had a partner in the other vehicle that was doing the reciprocal calculations. So then you compared notes. So basically, the techniques were virtually the same. So we, Pete and I, have always felt very comfortable with that kind of rendezvous because it was the only thing we really worked at. Of course, when I worked on backup on 8 and 9, they did things a little different too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then I’d like to ask you a little bit about your transition into Apollo. You had mentioned earlier how you were working with the modules themselves and their development. How did you find your transition between the Gemini and Apollo programs since Apollo was already underway once you’d finished up with Gemini 11?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a transition between the two. I was working on the spacecraft and its design on Apollo. I was taken off of that and put in a Gemini. I mean I was assigned to a flight crew. So I was working on Apollo for a period of time up until we started training for Gemini 8, and then I sat on a flight crew. And from that time on, I was on a flight crew until I retired, or virtually until I retired. So then when Gemini 11 flight had finished in September of ’66 then we were right back in the Apollo, picking up virtually on where we had left off before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the training, at all, any different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, more the same. You know, more complicated. The vehicles were more complicated. The things that we were trying to do were more complicated. The simulators were much more sophisticated. So the transition was easy. I mean it was not that difficult. You just had a different vehicles and more sophisticated training devices and you stepped right into it. It’s like going from say a DC-9 to a 747 type of transition. And it’s things that you could easily make without any problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. And I understand you were then assigned to the backup crew of Apollo 9?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 39.01525359157136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a transition between the two. I was working on the spacecraft and its design on Apollo. I was taken off of that and put in a Gemini. I mean I was assigned to a flight crew. So I was working on Apollo for a period of time up until we started training for Gemini 8, and then I sat on a flight crew. And from that time on, I was on a flight crew until I retired, or virtually until I retired. So then when Gemini 11 flight had finished in September of ’66 then we were right back in the Apollo, picking up virtually on where we had left off before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the training, at all, any different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, more the same. You know, more complicated. The vehicles were more complicated. The things that we were trying to do were more complicated. The simulators were much more sophisticated. So the transition was easy. I mean it was not that difficult. You just had a different vehicles and more sophisticated training devices and you stepped right into it. It’s like going from say a DC-9 to a 747 type of transition. And it’s things that you could easily make without any problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. And I understand you were then assigned to the backup crew of Apollo 9?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you were assigned to that backup crew, was it known as Apollo 9 at that point?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 21, "return_to_go": 40.016948435079286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, more the same. You know, more complicated. The vehicles were more complicated. The things that we were trying to do were more complicated. The simulators were much more sophisticated. So the transition was easy. I mean it was not that difficult. You just had a different vehicles and more sophisticated training devices and you stepped right into it. It’s like going from say a DC-9 to a 747 type of transition. And it’s things that you could easily make without any problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. And I understand you were then assigned to the backup crew of Apollo 9?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you were assigned to that backup crew, was it known as Apollo 9 at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think not. And I’m just trying go back. I’ve always been mad at Jim McDivitt because we could have been on Apollo 8 instead of Apollo 9. And there’s a significance to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little bit about it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.011109251385133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, that’s somewhat of a…probably the reason that Mike wasn’t able to track it, he didn’t know where the hell they landed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they didn’t know where they landed. The ground didn’t know where they had landed because of the navigational problems that they experienced. You know, the accuracy with which their state vector was and then Neil had to fly beyond the boulder field. Well, to correct those kinds of problems, we were assigned a specific target called Surveyor 3 which was in a specific crater on the lunar surface. And the reason for learning how to do that was later missions we’re going to land along side thirteen thousand foot mountains and big valleys that were six hundred meters deep and a kilometer across, the highlands of Descartes and Hadley Rille on 15 and Taurus-Littrow on 17. Later on, these sights were not picked but we knew that we wanted to go to other places that were going to require precise navigation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds very interesting. It sounds like it was probably a difficult job for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that and the difference was, I knew where that spacecraft was going to land. And I could see the crater in my optics. I could identify the crater and I saw a source of light, reflected light, on the rim of that crater. And I didn’t see the shape of the LM or anything like that. But I knew that they were going to land on that crater and I knew the only thing that was going to look like that, my own interpretation was that had to be the Lunar Module. Well I stuck my neck out to about here and said, “I see the Lunar Module.” And it was but it was just a source of reflected light off of the Lunar Module that I saw. It didn’t look like anything else down there. I think, who else saw the landing sight, I think Stu [Stuart A.] Roosa claims that he did also on 14. And I think that trick of it was that you had to know where they landed. If you didn’t know where they landed, you’d never find them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of things?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.292603179368204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah. We just had a great time with each other. We have a lot of fun. We’re very comfortable with each other. Pete and I got so that we communicated without speaking and if you know what that means. And we still do that today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lot of fun. They had a good time on the lunar surface. They came back so damn filthy that I wouldn’t let them in the Command Module. I made them strip, take every bit of clothes off they had. I don’t know what it was about the storm, but it had an extraordinary amount of dust that clung to their suits. When I looked into that Lunar Module when they took that hatch apart, all I could see was a black cloud in there, I didn’t see them at all. I looked in there and said, “Holy smoke. You’re not getting in here and dirtying up my nice clean Command Module. So they passed the rocks over, they took off their suits, passed those over, took off their underwear, and I said, “Okay, you can come in now.” That was something. And, you know, the dust disappeared on the way back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never found it. It had migrated outside the bags we had the suits in and everything. Of course, we clogged up all the filters and everything with the dust but it was all gone by the time we got back or we thought it was all gone. Maybe it wasn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that time, I understand you went through your reentry procedures after arriving back at the Earth. And were you in charge of those procedures?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.214003532631338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lot of fun. They had a good time on the lunar surface. They came back so damn filthy that I wouldn’t let them in the Command Module. I made them strip, take every bit of clothes off they had. I don’t know what it was about the storm, but it had an extraordinary amount of dust that clung to their suits. When I looked into that Lunar Module when they took that hatch apart, all I could see was a black cloud in there, I didn’t see them at all. I looked in there and said, “Holy smoke. You’re not getting in here and dirtying up my nice clean Command Module. So they passed the rocks over, they took off their suits, passed those over, took off their underwear, and I said, “Okay, you can come in now.” That was something. And, you know, the dust disappeared on the way back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never found it. It had migrated outside the bags we had the suits in and everything. Of course, we clogged up all the filters and everything with the dust but it was all gone by the time we got back or we thought it was all gone. Maybe it wasn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that time, I understand you went through your reentry procedures after arriving back at the Earth. And were you in charge of those procedures?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Once we got into orbit, the Command Module was mine to fly. So I did the transposition and docking with the Lunar Module. I didn’t do the rendezvous but I did the docking. I was the active participant in the docking. And I occupied the left hand seat when I wasn’t down in the lower equipment bay doing star sightings or whatever. So I was the bus driver, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you had an excellent landing as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.126670591812598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never found it. It had migrated outside the bags we had the suits in and everything. Of course, we clogged up all the filters and everything with the dust but it was all gone by the time we got back or we thought it was all gone. Maybe it wasn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that time, I understand you went through your reentry procedures after arriving back at the Earth. And were you in charge of those procedures?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Once we got into orbit, the Command Module was mine to fly. So I did the transposition and docking with the Lunar Module. I didn’t do the rendezvous but I did the docking. I was the active participant in the docking. And I occupied the left hand seat when I wasn’t down in the lower equipment bay doing star sightings or whatever. So I was the bus driver, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you had an excellent landing as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah. There wasn’t much to do other than monitor the landing. Once you start the reentry, of course, fortunately the computer does very, very well. So you’re sitting there basically monitoring its performance in case something obvious goes wrong, you can take over and manually fly the same kind of reentry that it was going to fly because all the information is there for you to be able to do that. And you just sit there and watch it and it did its thing. It was spectacular, it was absolutely spectacular. Eight minutes from the time you enter the atmosphere at roughly four hundred thousand feet until the chutes open. So it’s a very dynamic time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "…How was it so dynamic in your opinion?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.856989166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t use the BIGs [Biological Isolation Garments] on 12. We wanted to do as little of that as possible being the kind of people we are although at the same time, appreciating some of the requirements of the medical community and the people on Earth. They found out from 11 that there was nothing there to cause any problems so they eliminated the BIGs but we did have to wear our respirator when we got out … in case we had bad breath. Oh dear. Anyway, that’s all we wore and then we had our blue flight suits on. We went immediately into the … well we didn’t, we had the white coveralls on. We had blue flight suits in the Mobile Quarantine Facility [MQF]. We went directly then into the Mobile Quarantine Facility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long were you in the MQF?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, all the back here from Hawaii. Well in the ship for a day to get back to Hawaii and then the flight back to Houston. I’d have to go back and really look at that. I think we were probably there for three days maybe, two or three days, three days probably. That’s a long flight from Hawaii to here. It was probably fourteen hours, a day and a half. It takes a lot of time just to get off the ship and get into the airplane to get us back here as well. But it was comfortable. We had everything … no, we didn’t have everything we needed but most everything we needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. And then you proceeded onto the Lunar Receiving Laboratory?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they backed the MQF up to, what is it, building 37 at that time. I think it was. And we were right in quarantine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of things did you do when you were in quarantine?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.50776574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, all the back here from Hawaii. Well in the ship for a day to get back to Hawaii and then the flight back to Houston. I’d have to go back and really look at that. I think we were probably there for three days maybe, two or three days, three days probably. That’s a long flight from Hawaii to here. It was probably fourteen hours, a day and a half. It takes a lot of time just to get off the ship and get into the airplane to get us back here as well. But it was comfortable. We had everything … no, we didn’t have everything we needed but most everything we needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. And then you proceeded onto the Lunar Receiving Laboratory?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they backed the MQF up to, what is it, building 37 at that time. I think it was. And we were right in quarantine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of things did you do when you were in quarantine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Must you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t have to tell me if you wouldn’t like to."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.0086286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they backed the MQF up to, what is it, building 37 at that time. I think it was. And we were right in quarantine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of things did you do when you were in quarantine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Must you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t have to tell me if you wouldn’t like to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the normal routine stuff. I think we had some movies and we had some pretty good meals and we worked on … I think Pete worked on a Heath kit at the time. But it gave us the opportunity to write all of the reports that were required of us. All of the pilot reports. In addition to that, all of the briefings. Between a biological barrier, we briefed other flight crews, we briefed Mission Control, Flight Control Division, system engineers. So once we got out of quarantine, we were all done. We didn’t have anything more to do, Apollo 12 was over with except for the studying of the lunar materials that was brought back. So it was an appreciated time. Even though we felt that we didn’t need to be in quarantine, we used it to our advantage. And by the time we got out, all of the reports were written, all of the debriefing had been accomplished and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. Now did you have any time for reflection on your flight? It sounds like everyone was so busy."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.676254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Must you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t have to tell me if you wouldn’t like to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the normal routine stuff. I think we had some movies and we had some pretty good meals and we worked on … I think Pete worked on a Heath kit at the time. But it gave us the opportunity to write all of the reports that were required of us. All of the pilot reports. In addition to that, all of the briefings. Between a biological barrier, we briefed other flight crews, we briefed Mission Control, Flight Control Division, system engineers. So once we got out of quarantine, we were all done. We didn’t have anything more to do, Apollo 12 was over with except for the studying of the lunar materials that was brought back. So it was an appreciated time. Even though we felt that we didn’t need to be in quarantine, we used it to our advantage. And by the time we got out, all of the reports were written, all of the debriefing had been accomplished and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. Now did you have any time for reflection on your flight? It sounds like everyone was so busy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not during the time of flight. I think that you do afterwards. And they’re pieces and parts you remember. You read the transcripts. You [watch] the videos. “Oh yeah, I remember that.” But at the time of the flight, you’re busy enough doing other things that you really don’t have time to look at that. Al Bean didn’t even have time to reflect because he slept most of the way coming back. Crawled into his cocoon and he stayed there. I think most of the reflection of what you saw and what you did probably comes subsequent to the flight, in retrospect. And I think that the best comment. I made it and others have made it. We’ve often been asked, “What did we discover when we went to the Moon?” “We discovered the Earth.” Think about that because you don’t get to see the Earth from that kind of distance before and it takes on a whole new perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And for you, what type of perspective did it take on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 19.3534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not during the time of flight. I think that you do afterwards. And they’re pieces and parts you remember. You read the transcripts. You [watch] the videos. “Oh yeah, I remember that.” But at the time of the flight, you’re busy enough doing other things that you really don’t have time to look at that. Al Bean didn’t even have time to reflect because he slept most of the way coming back. Crawled into his cocoon and he stayed there. I think most of the reflection of what you saw and what you did probably comes subsequent to the flight, in retrospect. And I think that the best comment. I made it and others have made it. We’ve often been asked, “What did we discover when we went to the Moon?” “We discovered the Earth.” Think about that because you don’t get to see the Earth from that kind of distance before and it takes on a whole new perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And for you, what type of perspective did it take on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, its beauty. Its apparent fragility. Its uniqueness in the solar system, maybe the universe. Who knows. And I think you look at it, it has been likened to a delicate Christmas tree ornament that’s hanging out there all by itself in a black void of space. Blacker than that black briefcase there. Blackest black that you’ll ever see. It looks like velvet. And it’s the only thing out there that looks like that’s the place you ought to be because it exhibits a tremendous amount of fragility. Which I think environmentally, we‘re probably appreciating more and more. The sheer beauty of this planet is awesome. The blues of the oceans, the whites of the clouds and the khaki color, the appearance of the continent. It’s awesome. It really is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would like to ask you, just very quickly, a little bit about your reassignment after you returned from 12 then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that they had plans on going through Apollo 20 at that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tough question. What NASA gained from the Apollo program is a how-to attitude. I’m not so sure, I guess we could but I sometimes wonder if we could do that again today. And I’m not sure what they learned. In terms of corporate memory, I sometimes wonder if they had learned anything. I know they have. I’m being somewhat facetious but trying to make a point at the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re not alone in that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, is that right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you’re not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s changed a lot. And that can-do attitude, the vigor, and the enthusiasm that was experience in the sixties, I don’t know that it exists today. Maybe it does. Maybe I’m just not exposed to it. But I think that’s an era that is gone by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where do you think they should go right now?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00204:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, is that right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you’re not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s changed a lot. And that can-do attitude, the vigor, and the enthusiasm that was experience in the sixties, I don’t know that it exists today. Maybe it does. Maybe I’m just not exposed to it. But I think that’s an era that is gone by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where do you think they should go right now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, obviously they’ve got to go with the Space Station. No question about that. I’d wished they had at least gone back to the Moon. The Moon is going to be a great training ground for those things that are needed to go to Mars both in terms of hardware and personal experience. All of those things that I’m disappointed that we haven’t done that. So twenty five years this December, the last flight was on the Moon and I would have thought that we’d of been back there before now but times have changed. Politically, economically, leadership, desire, willingness, all that’s different today than it was then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I would really like to thank you so much. I’m very honored that you agreed to talk to us."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.881260106092423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they were ecstatic. My mom and dad and my sister. And we actually had, before I went in, I was originally assigned to Tonga, and I really wanted to go to Tonga because they wanted to start a high school curriculum. And I had taught two years in college, one at Central Washington, where I was did the course, the methods course, for people who were going to teach high school speech and drama."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was going to be able to develop a speech and drama program for Tonga, and that was just really excited about that. And then irony of ironies, um, we actually had a family trip. My mom and dad went up to Vancouver and I, the three of us went across to the World's Fair. And my sister flew up from New York. She was an attorney and actually at that time a vice president of a chemical company. And she came up. And so we had a family all get-together, which was significant because she died while I was in Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but anyway, my family was very excited about me going. And they thought that that was a good thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To avoid the draft or to go explore the world? Or both?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 34.31251122899158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was going to be able to develop a speech and drama program for Tonga, and that was just really excited about that. And then irony of ironies, um, we actually had a family trip. My mom and dad went up to Vancouver and I, the three of us went across to the World's Fair. And my sister flew up from New York. She was an attorney and actually at that time a vice president of a chemical company. And she came up. And so we had a family all get-together, which was significant because she died while I was in Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but anyway, my family was very excited about me going. And they thought that that was a good thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To avoid the draft or to go explore the world? Or both?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both. Actually, they weren't too excited about the draft motivation, but they thought this was good to be a helping profession."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied for the Peace Corps with, oh, well, this was post girlfriend now?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.43519904813775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both. Actually, they weren't too excited about the draft motivation, but they thought this was good to be a helping profession."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied for the Peace Corps with, oh, well, this was post girlfriend now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Post, well, actually, yes. Post girlfriend now. And I applied and I got accepted and assigned to Tonga. And I was, so when I was at the World's Fair, I spent most of my, a lot of time at the Tonga exhibition, not even looking, thinking about South Korea. And when I got back, I opened the letter that I had been moved because of my high language ability scores and that, that's why I said the irony of irony is because consistently, um, my Korean was, I was a poor student. We had 60 people in our training class, and the first test we had around, I ranked 60th out of 60. And when we left for Korea, I ranked 40 out of 40. I was still at the bottom of the group. And I always used that example when I was teaching research methods. If you use gain scores, always be, because I had the biggest gain score."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My friend Al, who was very fluent in Korean, only went from 5 to 4 and so his gain score was one when mine was 20. No question that I was very poor. And when we left Korea at the end of the two years, I was 36 out of 36. We lost four people, including my friend Al, during that period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So language is not your thing."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 40.483554497930825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Post, well, actually, yes. Post girlfriend now. And I applied and I got accepted and assigned to Tonga. And I was, so when I was at the World's Fair, I spent most of my, a lot of time at the Tonga exhibition, not even looking, thinking about South Korea. And when I got back, I opened the letter that I had been moved because of my high language ability scores and that, that's why I said the irony of irony is because consistently, um, my Korean was, I was a poor student. We had 60 people in our training class, and the first test we had around, I ranked 60th out of 60. And when we left for Korea, I ranked 40 out of 40. I was still at the bottom of the group. And I always used that example when I was teaching research methods. If you use gain scores, always be, because I had the biggest gain score."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My friend Al, who was very fluent in Korean, only went from 5 to 4 and so his gain score was one when mine was 20. No question that I was very poor. And when we left Korea at the end of the two years, I was 36 out of 36. We lost four people, including my friend Al, during that period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So language is not your thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language is not my thing. And I at that time regretted very much because I really wanted the professional challenge of developing a high school curriculum. That was my career goal at that time, what I wanted to do was work with high schools, speech teachers, which was where my training, even when I went back for my doctorate afterwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were, um, where were you living? You were living back in Oregon at that point?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 44.98172721992314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My friend Al, who was very fluent in Korean, only went from 5 to 4 and so his gain score was one when mine was 20. No question that I was very poor. And when we left Korea at the end of the two years, I was 36 out of 36. We lost four people, including my friend Al, during that period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So language is not your thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language is not my thing. And I at that time regretted very much because I really wanted the professional challenge of developing a high school curriculum. That was my career goal at that time, what I wanted to do was work with high schools, speech teachers, which was where my training, even when I went back for my doctorate afterwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were, um, where were you living? You were living back in Oregon at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had your training in Bisbee?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 46.64636357769237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language is not my thing. And I at that time regretted very much because I really wanted the professional challenge of developing a high school curriculum. That was my career goal at that time, what I wanted to do was work with high schools, speech teachers, which was where my training, even when I went back for my doctorate afterwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were, um, where were you living? You were living back in Oregon at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had your training in Bisbee?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Bisbee, Arizona. So we did our training, which was one of those great things. We were supposed to go to a ski resort in Pennsylvania, but they canceled the contract right before. And a woman in the national Peace Corps office, they came in and said, what are we going to do about Korea? And she said, let me call my brother, who was an attorney in Bisbee, and see if they could host it, because they're in the middle of a copper strike and they need the money. And our $10 checks for the 60 of us was the big economic, besides the other food and stuff and lodging, but the other big economic input. And again, that was significant.\n\nWe went to Bisbee, Arizona, and no relationship at all. We had 12 Koreans come over for the language training and that that was fantastic. But Bisbee had no relationship at all to South Korea in terms of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, neither did the mountains in Pennsylvania."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 55.11896737986712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Bisbee, Arizona. So we did our training, which was one of those great things. We were supposed to go to a ski resort in Pennsylvania, but they canceled the contract right before. And a woman in the national Peace Corps office, they came in and said, what are we going to do about Korea? And she said, let me call my brother, who was an attorney in Bisbee, and see if they could host it, because they're in the middle of a copper strike and they need the money. And our $10 checks for the 60 of us was the big economic, besides the other food and stuff and lodging, but the other big economic input. And again, that was significant.\n\nWe went to Bisbee, Arizona, and no relationship at all. We had 12 Koreans come over for the language training and that that was fantastic. But Bisbee had no relationship at all to South Korea in terms of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, neither did the mountains in Pennsylvania."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Neither did the mountains in Pennsylvania. But the mountains of Pennsylvania sounded exciting to me at the time, and I'm actually glad I went to Bisbee. We learned a lot. Our Peace Corps training to do, because we had a lot of teachers in our group, people with teaching backgrounds. So about ten of us formed a reader's theater group and we did Winnie the Pooh things and went to the schools to do readings for kids. We'd do a reader's theater thing on Winnie the Pooh. I was Eeyore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that sort of thing. But that was our contribution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were, were you a trained teacher at that point? But what was your?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 57.909963755407915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Neither did the mountains in Pennsylvania. But the mountains of Pennsylvania sounded exciting to me at the time, and I'm actually glad I went to Bisbee. We learned a lot. Our Peace Corps training to do, because we had a lot of teachers in our group, people with teaching backgrounds. So about ten of us formed a reader's theater group and we did Winnie the Pooh things and went to the schools to do readings for kids. We'd do a reader's theater thing on Winnie the Pooh. I was Eeyore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that sort of thing. But that was our contribution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were, were you a trained teacher at that point? But what was your?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had taught college for two years. I taught at Portland State for a year and Central Washington for a year. And that's where I got assigned to train teachers. And I spent time visiting teachers around the state of Washington. So I've learned a whole bunch of different approaches to teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the training like in Bisbee?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 47.677737506008796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that sort of thing. But that was our contribution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were, were you a trained teacher at that point? But what was your?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had taught college for two years. I taught at Portland State for a year and Central Washington for a year. And that's where I got assigned to train teachers. And I spent time visiting teachers around the state of Washington. So I've learned a whole bunch of different approaches to teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the training like in Bisbee?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training was intense. For language training, we had an hour of Korean before we had breakfast, so we started our first class at 7:00 and the last class would end at 10:00. And we were in a really weird converted whorehouse. And so, like there were four of us in one room, and they put four beds across there and there was six inches left. So that when we made our beds each week with our new linens, we'd start with the one against the wall and he'd have six inches. So the four of us had to coordinate how we made the bed so we could move it over. I was in the third bed and so there was no room there.\n\nAnd that made the other sort of thing that was I found intriguing in training is that we would go from like 10:00 to 11:30 up to Jesse's Bar, and Jesse would sell beers for 25 cents for the first one and 15 cents for the second one. I corresponded with Jesse for about four years after Peace Corps. I would send him a letter and he would respond back and I'd sent him a couple of letters from Korea, and he just was fascinated. So we got community involvement in Bisbee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from 10:00 to 11:30 in the morning, this is?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 28, "return_to_go": 51.86415278445422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had taught college for two years. I taught at Portland State for a year and Central Washington for a year. And that's where I got assigned to train teachers. And I spent time visiting teachers around the state of Washington. So I've learned a whole bunch of different approaches to teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the training like in Bisbee?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training was intense. For language training, we had an hour of Korean before we had breakfast, so we started our first class at 7:00 and the last class would end at 10:00. And we were in a really weird converted whorehouse. And so, like there were four of us in one room, and they put four beds across there and there was six inches left. So that when we made our beds each week with our new linens, we'd start with the one against the wall and he'd have six inches. So the four of us had to coordinate how we made the bed so we could move it over. I was in the third bed and so there was no room there.\n\nAnd that made the other sort of thing that was I found intriguing in training is that we would go from like 10:00 to 11:30 up to Jesse's Bar, and Jesse would sell beers for 25 cents for the first one and 15 cents for the second one. I corresponded with Jesse for about four years after Peace Corps. I would send him a letter and he would respond back and I'd sent him a couple of letters from Korea, and he just was fascinated. So we got community involvement in Bisbee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from 10:00 to 11:30 in the morning, this is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At night. Oh, I thought you were drinking beer early in the morning."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.951612230535314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the very first week that Houk went to the United States, my family refused to have, be paid the allowance that they gave to the families that we lived with for food. They gave a food allowance to each of the families. And so the Songs refused that because she was living with my folks in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, so that was a subsidy. The other, the other, Il, the son which was the fifth child in the family. Il means number one in the Chinese alphabet that the Koreans used. And Il most people would say is a spoiled, because four girls, other older sisters. And his grandmother lived, moved into the house and fed him until he was five years old. I mean, she was so excited that he had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A son."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A son. When Houk was born, Dr. Song's really close friend came over in mourning clothes because he had had four girls, and Dr. Song chased him down the street according to the story. I have no way of verifying, but it was very consistent with his theory. He was, he was yelling at them, girls are as good as boys, girls are as good as boys!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was a medical doctor?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 32.168458033928125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, so that was a subsidy. The other, the other, Il, the son which was the fifth child in the family. Il means number one in the Chinese alphabet that the Koreans used. And Il most people would say is a spoiled, because four girls, other older sisters. And his grandmother lived, moved into the house and fed him until he was five years old. I mean, she was so excited that he had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A son."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A son. When Houk was born, Dr. Song's really close friend came over in mourning clothes because he had had four girls, and Dr. Song chased him down the street according to the story. I have no way of verifying, but it was very consistent with his theory. He was, he was yelling at them, girls are as good as boys, girls are as good as boys!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was a medical doctor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a medical doctor. And he, his clinic was in our house. And so because Korea was in a curfew, I was, I would say not a week went by that I wasn't woken up by someone knocking on the door or yelling, [speaks Korean], and trying to get the doctor. And because the curfew very, hardly any doctors except for Dr. Song, Dr. Song would go out at the risk of his life, of being shot. While I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why was there a curfew?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.398350912861034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, U.S. tanks going through the streets. And I immediately turned on the radio and then heard about the Pueblo affair from BBC. The U.S. ship had been taken. So there was, there was that tension that was going on. In fact, one of my favorite stories was that I got a call from Peace Corps headquarters saying that, asked me to come down so that the staff could evaluate and see visually, because if we had an evacuation and they had to evacuate, we would immediately go to Gimpo and to be evacuated. They didn't want us gathering any, just to meet, your job was figuring out how you could get to Gimpo, which is the major airport at that time in South, in Seoul. And she wanted to be able to visually identify me because I was the only volunteer who hadn't come into the main office.\n\nI mean, after I saw where it was, I never went there. I didn't go to weekend meetings because I was having a good time in Korea. I didn't, I figured here I was here to meet Koreans, not to spend time with other American Peace Corps volunteers. And so they didn't know who I was. So they asked me to come in and be visually recognized. So it just shows you that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where were you stationed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Korea, in Seoul."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you were stationed in Seoul?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I was just part of, rode the bus actually within a block and a half of the Peace Corps office when I would go to work. But I just, you know, knew where it was. I was here to meet Koreans and work with Koreans. I didn't go down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's just back up to the, to the training again."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.77594545873448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Korea, in Seoul."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you were stationed in Seoul?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I was just part of, rode the bus actually within a block and a half of the Peace Corps office when I would go to work. But I just, you know, knew where it was. I was here to meet Koreans and work with Koreans. I didn't go down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's just back up to the, to the training again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the training there. Do you think it prepared you for going overseas, the cultural training, the language training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 24.19549495414942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I was just part of, rode the bus actually within a block and a half of the Peace Corps office when I would go to work. But I just, you know, knew where it was. I was here to meet Koreans and work with Koreans. I didn't go down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's just back up to the, to the training again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the training there. Do you think it prepared you for going overseas, the cultural training, the language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I have high ratings for them. I often thought, you know what, what should have they done that they didn't do? Well, nothing. They tried to serve us rice once in, we were at the Copper Queen Hotel where we had our, we had our meals, and they made rice. It was so bad the Koreans complained about it. So we never had rice again. And at that time, anybody, I was, two things. My mother would have told you that I was a finicky eater and I hated rice. And I was worried about eating rice three times a day when I got to Korea, which never was a problem. I just took to it like water. But it was so different from anything my mother had served or anything we had at the Copper Plate Hotel, which the Koreans themselves said, that's not right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's not right. So. Okay, so you finish the training. And then how many of you went overseas?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 24.661661060166022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the training there. Do you think it prepared you for going overseas, the cultural training, the language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I have high ratings for them. I often thought, you know what, what should have they done that they didn't do? Well, nothing. They tried to serve us rice once in, we were at the Copper Queen Hotel where we had our, we had our meals, and they made rice. It was so bad the Koreans complained about it. So we never had rice again. And at that time, anybody, I was, two things. My mother would have told you that I was a finicky eater and I hated rice. And I was worried about eating rice three times a day when I got to Korea, which never was a problem. I just took to it like water. But it was so different from anything my mother had served or anything we had at the Copper Plate Hotel, which the Koreans themselves said, that's not right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's not right. So. Okay, so you finish the training. And then how many of you went overseas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "40 of the 60. And we lost four people during the period of time, one was my friend Al, which was a medical leave. And another one was Kevin, who was, who was probably also one of the top five in Korean language skills. He just, he had worked in a TB thing and just felt it was, um. For example, of the thousand vaccinations that they did in that, in a six month period, he did 800 of them and there was four or five other Koreans that were part of the staff and they just were, didn't do much. And he just got disgusted and quit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And just quit."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.018739451530895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because he thought, I'm not, I'm not doing any good here. And they're not, they're just letting me do all the work and then they won't do anything when I leave. So, uh, I mean, you quickly learned that your individual thing. And like 35, or 30, 39 of them went into middle schools and I went to a government training institute that trained. COTI was set up to train civil servants. In other words, the GS people, and we focused on what would be equivalent to GS-12 and above, trying to train them. And the reason that I was there was to help the director of our institute save face because they lost the USAID contract with University of Minnesota that sent a professor of public administration.\n\nSo when the powers that be went through the things they saw, oh, he's taught college for two years. So even though it's in speech, they didn't care what it was in. Then we have him. He still has an American professor. Well, I had only a master's degree and I didn't do anything. The only thing I really did is they once had me give a lecture to 600 people on why the U.S. is in Vietnam, which was an interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what is it that you said to them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I followed what was the rationale I could guess, get out of Time magazine. I subscribed to Time or my folks did for me for the two years, and it was my first experience with censorship. I didn't ever receive a Time that didn't have either pages ripped out or marked out in big black letter or anything that said about the Vietnam or protests of the Vietnam War. And so I had a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was doing the censoring?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Korean government. The post office, people in the post office. Korean government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't want to have anybody know there were protests against the Vietnam War?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.46526605725655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I followed what was the rationale I could guess, get out of Time magazine. I subscribed to Time or my folks did for me for the two years, and it was my first experience with censorship. I didn't ever receive a Time that didn't have either pages ripped out or marked out in big black letter or anything that said about the Vietnam or protests of the Vietnam War. And so I had a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was doing the censoring?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Korean government. The post office, people in the post office. Korean government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't want to have anybody know there were protests against the Vietnam War?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why is, I'm sorry, why did Korea not want to let people know about protests?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 27.183628952507277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Korean government. The post office, people in the post office. Korean government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't want to have anybody know there were protests against the Vietnam War?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why is, I'm sorry, why did Korea not want to let people know about protests?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's the connection? I don't know what's the connection between Korea and the Vietnam War."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.39876383555445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It starts at the bust line and runs right down and then you have a top over the top of it. And, uh, and I just thought that was a curious thing. But that's part of understanding that, that Korean sense is that we never go overseas. So Vietnam is the first time a Korean troop had been in a foreign country. But they were paid a tremendous amount of money. I mean, that, that's what built the army for, for South Korea was all this extra. The soldiers still got less than $12 a month out of that $115."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "$115 a month?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The U.S. paid for a Korean soldier. Or it's $117."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A tremendous amount of money."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.554182039504944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The U.S. paid for a Korean soldier. Or it's $117."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A tremendous amount of money."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. 90 percent of the money went into the coffers of the army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So. So what is it that you actually were doing in the training institute? What?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.726868932783272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A tremendous amount of money."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. 90 percent of the money went into the coffers of the army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So. So what is it that you actually were doing in the training institute? What?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question. I couldn't tell you at the end of two years what I was actually, you know. My official assignment was I sat in a room with six people that they hope would go overseas and get doctorates. Now, one of the six already had a doctorate from France in public administration. But he was kind of, he was my assigned mentor. And he was the one that found the Songs' house. There's two great stories there, or one great story. With what Peace Corps Korea said is whatever school you're assigned, you have to find a family to live with. So when they went to COTI, they told them that. And the director's wife said, we can't, we can't take an American because we don't have a throne toilet. We have a ceramic pit toilet, and which is very rare, I mean, because it really was nice, a very fancy sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A fancy pit toilet?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.387930249086807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yeah. She was just a couple of years younger. I was 25. She was 22."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the next year, Il, the son. We spent a lot of time together. Almost every night I would come up, because you'd be home by at least 10:00, 10:30 because the curfew. But Mrs. Song, and it really wasn't, she kept her name. In Korea you don't take the man's name, but anyway, so she would bring. I always called her Mrs. Song. So she, she would bring up colas and like pears or some other fruit or something. And Il and I would talk for one or two hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we really got, I mean, I noticed between the time I left his English was, he could go anywhere and be in a fluent, follow a conversation, where at the beginning we really struggled and but that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of this was in English?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.021519999579354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you talk about eight years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eight years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's post, post Korean War. And then Houk never did get married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was the professor. And Young-Ja also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And taught where, in Seoul?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.903111110591794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was the professor. And Young-Ja also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And taught where, in Seoul?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Korea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Korea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was head of the drama department in Korea and she has. She did a Hamlet production that was really fantastic. So she also wrote books of poetry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still in touch with her?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.114567900657548, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Korea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Korea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was head of the drama department in Korea and she has. She did a Hamlet production that was really fantastic. So she also wrote books of poetry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still in touch with her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, great. That's excellent."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.57174211184172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was head of the drama department in Korea and she has. She did a Hamlet production that was really fantastic. So she also wrote books of poetry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still in touch with her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, great. That's excellent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So both Houk and Il, you know. And what's interesting is they're both singular names. Like the others would be Young-Ja, but they both had a single name. So you don't find that very often in Korea for the first name, it's generally it's a hyphenated name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. That's significant?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 26.565466158345973, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, he had that power to. First he had, he asked me to arrange a thing with Kissinger, and I had no idea how to do that. He said, I'll do it myself. So, so he did, because it was easier in one sense. Kissinger wouldn't responded to me, but would respond. But, but he then became nationally famous in Korea so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very successful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very successful. Both of them are successes. And so I look at that as a family thing is that, the first thing. The second thing I wanted to talk about is my relationship to growing up in North Bend was part of Peace Corps. Um. I was depressed a little bit the first couple of weeks on the job because this was a no job, sitting in an office, just chatting with people from, telling them what was in Time magazine. And, you know, just like the image of huts and villages of the world just wasn't working that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One was we were supposed to dress the way our colleagues did, which meant I had to have tailor made suits. And I mean, here's this kid from Oregon that's never had a tailor made a suit in his life and hasn't since. But I had to go to Korea and get tailor made suits. The first suit I had, the guy said something and he goes like this. And I figured it was with my pants. And he used the word whether it was, what do you want for your fly? Do you want buttons or a zipper? And I didn't know enough Korean to know the difference between the two. And I said, I just wanted to respond, I got buttons on my pants. And I thought, well, that's my grandfather. And because I had diarrhea a lot, the buttons were often a barrier, that I would be swearing to myself.\n\nBut those two suits lasted me until 1988. I mean, at least I was the same size, didn't have to deal with that. They were really well done. I had to get tailor made shoes. I mean, this is just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why was it tailor made, because mass production wasn't good?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 35.23465533335762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, so when we went there, we had already met her and her husband. Anyway, the other daughter, Sugi, and this daughter, they went together and they arranged to have Kathy and I go down to Jeju-do, which is the island south, off of South Korea, and which is. And we spent three days there. And Il sent two of his students to go down and rent a car and drive us around. And so but they paid for our flight down, the daughters did, at Thanksgiving. Now, Kathy and I made a book for both Houk and Il, a photo book of some of my photos. Well, the interesting thing was when the daughters, Il's daughters, saw that, they had never seen a picture of their mom and dad before they were married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And here they were, you know, drinking and eating and, you know, up in my bedroom, we had always sort of did our stuff. This is amazing. This is mom and dad when they were, before they were married. Wow. Wow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They thought that was really cool. And we had a picture of a nephew that I got to meet and I went to a poetry reading. So we just had a wonderful two weeks in Korea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So clearly the two families are joined."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 32.482950370397354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And here they were, you know, drinking and eating and, you know, up in my bedroom, we had always sort of did our stuff. This is amazing. This is mom and dad when they were, before they were married. Wow. Wow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They thought that was really cool. And we had a picture of a nephew that I got to meet and I went to a poetry reading. So we just had a wonderful two weeks in Korea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So clearly the two families are joined."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two families are joined and that to me is a significant part of my tour. Now, the other year, I said two years. I want to go back to my other. The second year, Dr. Pak got me working with the committee in Korea that works on ports and harbors and commerce and harbors in Korea and dredging of harbors and, uh. And so if you feel that, I grew up in Coos, on Coos Bay, which is the largest port between San Francisco and Seattle, but there's a port there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you doing with them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 26.822926032757795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, I got to spend several days with her, and I just thought that was wonderful. And my dad got back there. So again, there were three of us that, at the beginning of Peace Corps. We had had our time, wonderful time at the World's Fair together, which then had double significance. But they flew me back for that, and I made the arrangements because we had her cremated. We had a service in New York at the church she went to, and then I made arrangements. My folks went back and then I knew that they couldn't fly back with her ashes emotionally. So I made this crazy idea, I had to meet a lawyer or something, and which was my friends were lawyers. My friend in the Peace Corps was a really good lawyer.\n\nAnd so I did that. And when we got to my house, I picked Jan, my first wife. We were engaged. She had, she'd actually come over in the midterm and we'd had a Korean engagement ceremony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Korean clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Korean toasts, a whole thing, like my Korean family sponsored the engagement ceremony. So, um, it just is an important part of my life that we really like intertwined. You know, my engagement party to Jan was done by my Korean family. So that was, so we had a Korean engagement party. So I met Jan in Portland, Oregon, and drove the 4 hours down and we actually stopped and saw Ken's parents and had lunch in Eugene, Oregon. We got to my, uh, my mom walked out of the house and walked out to our car and said, we're going to the, your dad's in critical condition. So I got another two week family emergency leave because my dad almost died that night. But they operated for 5 hours, took out 12 pounds of his lower intestine. And so that gave me another. So I was gone actually a month on this trip and, uh, so that that made it really a different sort of experience for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you went back?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.838805365190154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was fine. I just had, I was able to take advantage of the friendliness of Korean people to be able to do that. I have other really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The big question is, what did it do for your life?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was about to ask that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 33.15422818354462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The big question is, what did it do for your life?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was about to ask that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the personal side, you've already seen because Houk and Il became part of my family and she actually visited my, came back and visited my parents before they died when they were both in a nursing home. And I have always greatly appreciated that. But she appreciated what they did for her. They took her on family vacations for four years, so she got Pacific Northwest because they'd go out and they were retired. They didn't have any time restrictions, so they could just, they'd take her around to meet people, that my mother had a lot of friends all over sort of thing. So that was just a really great impact.\n\nProfessionally, um, I came back and immediately started my doctorate. I taught for a year at Central Washington for another year and got married in that period of time and then did my doctorate at the University of Oregon. And my doctorate with, focused on training high school teachers. Again, missing, still mad that I didn't get to go to Tonga. But by this time, the family stuff and my personal contacts were such that, so what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right, exactly."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.9318469, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was just a really. And so we talked for 45 minutes and then I left. And then I found out why some other people got told because I was wearing a London Fog, which is what the Social Security inspectors wear when they come up. And they're trying to catch people that are claiming too many kids. They have a feeling that one, one or three, you know, that a five year old or a six year old might be credited to seven or eight huts. And they had been trying, they were in '69 were trying to figure that out. And they figured that I had integrated that, the Peace Corps thing. But people had said, there's this guy out there and they said, well, we think you got a person. And they looked out. And then I'd walk by and they'd say, oh, no, that's Don Boileau, he's part of our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you find that out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From other volunteers because they came up to me and said, I heard about you. People would tell them that they thought that they weren't quite trustworthy, that Peace Corps was trying to let this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Non-verbal communication."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Non-verbal communication with them. So it was a, to me it was just a really interesting. And then I didn't mind, but boy was I cold all day long. It was just, the wind was up there and it was something else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. So one more question before we end. So you've talked about the impact on you and your family. You've talked about the impact of Peace Corps on Korea, English, as well as friendships. What do you think has been the impact of Peace Corps on the United States, or has there been any?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00084:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm on the board. You just kind of do those things. And I look at, Peace Corps is verified. It's not that what we've changed the world like we thought we were going to do to help the huts and villages. It's that we changed the world by coming back and, and doing things and, uh, I. Saturday night at a party, I met a couple that were Peace Corps volunteers in Nigeria, and they spent 51 years in Saint Croix helping them try to develop economically, as economic advisers. But they'll tell you the same thing that I just said, that it's what they did when they came back. Saint Croix is part of the Virgin Islands, you know, that are part of the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so you just do those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some are more direct, you know, like Phil with his camps and stuff that have a really direct, some are indirect like myself. But it's, but it's your whole lifetime of being able to, to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. So thank you."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00259:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 41.42899259000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and they were all extremely competent people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During these two positions, the schedule of flights was pretty intense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. They were all different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with us about how you were able to be debriefing one, doing one, and planning the other ones? And with all the payloads being different, you also brought in another Shuttle on board, on flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Give us an idea of what all was going on and how you were able manage all of that at one time."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00729:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 65, "return_to_go": 148.61752539500003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn’t change. Everybody said we were we’re operational, and it was never that. People kept declaring we’re operational, but we were doing the same flight readiness reviews, all the analysis, and continuing to test at Stennis. Really nothing changed. We didn’t reduce manpower because we recognized this vehicle was so complex, we have got to stay on top of it. So we never changed that as long as I was on the program. It was just extremely challenging, and we recognized that. There was no difference operationally that I ever recall. We looked at ways to improve processing at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] reducing the timelines, and as I recall there really wasn’t a lot we were able to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you provide any assistance at the Cape for launch? Was that one of your responsibilities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the SSME, I was always in the Huntsville Operations Support Center and not at the Cape. We were monitoring all the information from consoles and the chief engineer was at the Cape. On the SRB, I was monitoring the consoles in the Launch Control Center (LCC)."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We haven’t heard about this Huntsville Operations Support Center before. Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had all the consoles set up, monitoring all the systems: the tank, the engine, the boosters. We had a large support group in this Huntsville Operations Support Center that was monitoring what was happening at the Cape. We’d have a planeload of people fly to the Cape and be there at the consoles, but we had the support group in Huntsville. Contractors were tied in during the missions and doing their own monitoring. We had a very elaborate system monitoring the vehicle during the launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever do any sort of sims [simulations] like they might do at Mission Control?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.971886938055476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did have more of a, they had a devotion and, you know, wanted to serve, but maybe not quite as gung-ho I found as the people that I met recently at the, uh, who had served in the early to mid sixties, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So some of that may change over time as well as they tell their stories. So I think it was a total, being from the sixties, let me tell you, people wanted to see the world. They wanted to escape Vietnam. There were many reasons people joined, including not liking whatever they were studying and trying to do a reset."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And of course, when you've only got two to 300 of the 220,000 volunteers, you've got the really enthusiastic people who come to the national meeting. And many of them seem to come every year or many years when they can. So it isn't probably everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't feel bad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A good sampling. No, I don't. I didn't, I didn't feel bad about it. I just, I think most of us and some of them had actually done a program, a teaching program, ahead of time and had planned to do it. So I think most of us really, really wanted to work hard and things. But I think coming in, I was too young, but coming in in the sixties would have been interesting. And, you know, with the Kennedy development of the program and his speeches about what we were going to do, I think you really probably came in a little more, more gung ho. And by the seventies, it was kind of there, I won't say passé, but a little bit more of a, just an important thing to do, but maybe not quite as changing overall that Kennedy had sold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. But you were still inspired by him."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.30209659783942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And of course, when you've only got two to 300 of the 220,000 volunteers, you've got the really enthusiastic people who come to the national meeting. And many of them seem to come every year or many years when they can. So it isn't probably everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't feel bad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A good sampling. No, I don't. I didn't, I didn't feel bad about it. I just, I think most of us and some of them had actually done a program, a teaching program, ahead of time and had planned to do it. So I think most of us really, really wanted to work hard and things. But I think coming in, I was too young, but coming in in the sixties would have been interesting. And, you know, with the Kennedy development of the program and his speeches about what we were going to do, I think you really probably came in a little more, more gung ho. And by the seventies, it was kind of there, I won't say passé, but a little bit more of a, just an important thing to do, but maybe not quite as changing overall that Kennedy had sold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. But you were still inspired by him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how old were you when you were, when you went in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 22.557885108710465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A good sampling. No, I don't. I didn't, I didn't feel bad about it. I just, I think most of us and some of them had actually done a program, a teaching program, ahead of time and had planned to do it. So I think most of us really, really wanted to work hard and things. But I think coming in, I was too young, but coming in in the sixties would have been interesting. And, you know, with the Kennedy development of the program and his speeches about what we were going to do, I think you really probably came in a little more, more gung ho. And by the seventies, it was kind of there, I won't say passé, but a little bit more of a, just an important thing to do, but maybe not quite as changing overall that Kennedy had sold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. But you were still inspired by him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how old were you when you were, when you went in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question. I was. I just turned 26, I believe, and I was out by 28. And at the time I was 28, I did two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you grow up?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.286539009678293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how old were you when you were, when you went in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question. I was. I just turned 26, I believe, and I was out by 28. And at the time I was 28, I did two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Went to school, went to college at Purdue. The Indiana Purdue campus in Fort Wayne for three years, went to the main campus for one year, then went to graduate school at the University of Wisconsin in Madison for three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So definitely Midwest. Had you traveled at all?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.762821121864768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question. I was. I just turned 26, I believe, and I was out by 28. And at the time I was 28, I did two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Went to school, went to college at Purdue. The Indiana Purdue campus in Fort Wayne for three years, went to the main campus for one year, then went to graduate school at the University of Wisconsin in Madison for three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So definitely Midwest. Had you traveled at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot. I'd been to Montreal for the World's Fair, been to Florida with my parents to see my uncle. Went to New York on the way back from Montreal. But, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No international travel."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 16.40313457984974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Went to school, went to college at Purdue. The Indiana Purdue campus in Fort Wayne for three years, went to the main campus for one year, then went to graduate school at the University of Wisconsin in Madison for three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So definitely Midwest. Had you traveled at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot. I'd been to Montreal for the World's Fair, been to Florida with my parents to see my uncle. Went to New York on the way back from Montreal. But, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No international travel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't see the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Montreal's international."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.843376024505854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't see the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Montreal's international."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually during graduate school, we took a road trip to the Grand Canyon. So I'd never been, other than Canada, I'd never been out of the country. In fact, this is kind of off the topic, but I think it was kind of interesting when I went to Canada. It was, and now it's so much different than nowadays. I had never really met somebody that didn't speak English as a primary or secondary language, and really there were probably others, but I can remember only one. And we had an exchange student when I was in grade school who was from a foreign country. I mean, in Fort Wayne, there probably just weren't that many, many foreigners. Now, you can go anywhere in small towns in Minnesota and, you know, you go to a grocery store and some are speaking Spanish, some are speaking German. It's, it's, it's, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Amazing change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's all part of it. What did your parents think about your joining the Peace Corps, your friends?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.937084471673172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually during graduate school, we took a road trip to the Grand Canyon. So I'd never been, other than Canada, I'd never been out of the country. In fact, this is kind of off the topic, but I think it was kind of interesting when I went to Canada. It was, and now it's so much different than nowadays. I had never really met somebody that didn't speak English as a primary or secondary language, and really there were probably others, but I can remember only one. And we had an exchange student when I was in grade school who was from a foreign country. I mean, in Fort Wayne, there probably just weren't that many, many foreigners. Now, you can go anywhere in small towns in Minnesota and, you know, you go to a grocery store and some are speaking Spanish, some are speaking German. It's, it's, it's, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Amazing change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's all part of it. What did your parents think about your joining the Peace Corps, your friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. My dad thought I should go to work and get a job and prepare for retirement. Maybe in retrospect, he was right. And my mother. I had had a lot of illnesses when I was young between almost kindergarten through high school. I had had a lot of pulmonary lung and lung problems and had missed almost half of my freshman year of high school with pneumonia and a kidney infection. Finally, the doctor, after I got pneumonia the second time, the doctor said stay home until it gets warm. So my mother thought I was going to get sick. Although through from college, you know, from freshman year of college on, I didn't really, wasn't really ill. My health had kind of turned around. I'd had every illness I think that was possible. So I was immune to a lot of things. And so she was worried that I'd get sick and die."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a good thing for a mother to worry about."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.041204968525747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Amazing change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's all part of it. What did your parents think about your joining the Peace Corps, your friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. My dad thought I should go to work and get a job and prepare for retirement. Maybe in retrospect, he was right. And my mother. I had had a lot of illnesses when I was young between almost kindergarten through high school. I had had a lot of pulmonary lung and lung problems and had missed almost half of my freshman year of high school with pneumonia and a kidney infection. Finally, the doctor, after I got pneumonia the second time, the doctor said stay home until it gets warm. So my mother thought I was going to get sick. Although through from college, you know, from freshman year of college on, I didn't really, wasn't really ill. My health had kind of turned around. I'd had every illness I think that was possible. So I was immune to a lot of things. And so she was worried that I'd get sick and die."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a good thing for a mother to worry about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, she was worried. As it turned out, I made it through most of the time. I think the worst thing I had was I think I got food poisoning one time at one of the better restaurants in Ghana. I ate off the street and things, but then never got sick. But ate at a good Chinese restaurant and I got sick, so I don't know whether I had probably a food poisoning from pork or something that I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we'll get, we'll get to that later."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.268005520584163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. My dad thought I should go to work and get a job and prepare for retirement. Maybe in retrospect, he was right. And my mother. I had had a lot of illnesses when I was young between almost kindergarten through high school. I had had a lot of pulmonary lung and lung problems and had missed almost half of my freshman year of high school with pneumonia and a kidney infection. Finally, the doctor, after I got pneumonia the second time, the doctor said stay home until it gets warm. So my mother thought I was going to get sick. Although through from college, you know, from freshman year of college on, I didn't really, wasn't really ill. My health had kind of turned around. I'd had every illness I think that was possible. So I was immune to a lot of things. And so she was worried that I'd get sick and die."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a good thing for a mother to worry about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, she was worried. As it turned out, I made it through most of the time. I think the worst thing I had was I think I got food poisoning one time at one of the better restaurants in Ghana. I ate off the street and things, but then never got sick. But ate at a good Chinese restaurant and I got sick, so I don't know whether I had probably a food poisoning from pork or something that I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we'll get, we'll get to that later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied. How did you even know about the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.631117245093515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, she was worried. As it turned out, I made it through most of the time. I think the worst thing I had was I think I got food poisoning one time at one of the better restaurants in Ghana. I ate off the street and things, but then never got sick. But ate at a good Chinese restaurant and I got sick, so I don't know whether I had probably a food poisoning from pork or something that I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we'll get, we'll get to that later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied. How did you even know about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question. That I'm having a hard time, you know, I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just knew."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.034574716770573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied. How did you even know about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question. That I'm having a hard time, you know, I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just knew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just heard about it, I mean, there was so much out from the Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There wasn't a recruiter who recruited you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.593971907522858, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question. That I'm having a hard time, you know, I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just knew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just heard about it, I mean, there was so much out from the Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There wasn't a recruiter who recruited you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I ever met a recruiter. I just, you know, wrote for probably an application, filled out the application, and didn't know if I was going to get called."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take for you to hear back? Was it a long time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.104413230580954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just heard about it, I mean, there was so much out from the Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There wasn't a recruiter who recruited you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I ever met a recruiter. I just, you know, wrote for probably an application, filled out the application, and didn't know if I was going to get called."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take for you to hear back? Was it a long time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I would think I applied in like February and found out in like April of the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so it was pretty fast."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.782681367312172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think I ever met a recruiter. I just, you know, wrote for probably an application, filled out the application, and didn't know if I was going to get called."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take for you to hear back? Was it a long time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I would think I applied in like February and found out in like April of the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so it was pretty fast."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't too long. They needed science teachers. And I was a chemistry teacher and could teach math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you apply for a specific part of the world?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.091868185902415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I would think I applied in like February and found out in like April of the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so it was pretty fast."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't too long. They needed science teachers. And I was a chemistry teacher and could teach math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you apply for a specific part of the world?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just, we were talking about this this morning on our way up and before you came. And I guess I put in places, but I really didn't know much. I think I put in like South America first, which probably wasn't a good choice for me. I may have thrown in Africa as a secondary choice, but it was, you know, in the end, I realized it was more logical to send me to a place like Ghana, which was English speaking, and where I could teach chemistry easily. It would not have been easy in a Spanish speaking country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied to be a teacher and a chemist?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 14.546520206558238, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't too long. They needed science teachers. And I was a chemistry teacher and could teach math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you apply for a specific part of the world?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just, we were talking about this this morning on our way up and before you came. And I guess I put in places, but I really didn't know much. I think I put in like South America first, which probably wasn't a good choice for me. I may have thrown in Africa as a secondary choice, but it was, you know, in the end, I realized it was more logical to send me to a place like Ghana, which was English speaking, and where I could teach chemistry easily. It would not have been easy in a Spanish speaking country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied to be a teacher and a chemist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I believe my main interest was in teaching so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you got the letter and then where did you have your training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.385022451731375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just, we were talking about this this morning on our way up and before you came. And I guess I put in places, but I really didn't know much. I think I put in like South America first, which probably wasn't a good choice for me. I may have thrown in Africa as a secondary choice, but it was, you know, in the end, I realized it was more logical to send me to a place like Ghana, which was English speaking, and where I could teach chemistry easily. It would not have been easy in a Spanish speaking country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied to be a teacher and a chemist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I believe my main interest was in teaching so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you got the letter and then where did you have your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Philadelphia for about three days, and then there were people from four countries I think. Maybe it was, I know it was Ghana, Togo, and maybe Dahomey, which is, there are two very thin countries next to Ghana, between Ghana and Nigeria. And then the others went to Uganda, flew off to Uganda afterwards. There might have been another East African country that they went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was really just getting shots and things like that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.351879570038733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Philadelphia for about three days, and then there were people from four countries I think. Maybe it was, I know it was Ghana, Togo, and maybe Dahomey, which is, there are two very thin countries next to Ghana, between Ghana and Nigeria. And then the others went to Uganda, flew off to Uganda afterwards. There might have been another East African country that they went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was really just getting shots and things like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, then we did our training basically in country. Went to, uh, about, after our first thing we went, I think we went out to a relatively small village and did some language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you met in Philadelphia, you were there three or four days, and then you flew off."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.502088411154148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, then we did our training basically in country. Went to, uh, about, after our first thing we went, I think we went out to a relatively small village and did some language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you met in Philadelphia, you were there three or four days, and then you flew off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Flew off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was your group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.78009823461572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you met in Philadelphia, you were there three or four days, and then you flew off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Flew off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were well over 200 going to all the countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all the countries."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.08899803846191, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Flew off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were well over 200 going to all the countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all the countries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say, and I really don't know, 60 to 80 maybe in Ghana, a lot of them teachers. Ghana needed teachers at that time. In fact, Ghana was the very first country. There's some argument, but Ghana was a very first country to, I think, have volunteers in the country. Several people are fighting over who was, uh, who was the first. I believe the Philippines was maybe the first to sign the document. And Ghana was the first to have volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then there are some people that say Nigeria as well. So maybe they were all at the same time."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.321108931624343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were well over 200 going to all the countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all the countries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say, and I really don't know, 60 to 80 maybe in Ghana, a lot of them teachers. Ghana needed teachers at that time. In fact, Ghana was the very first country. There's some argument, but Ghana was a very first country to, I think, have volunteers in the country. Several people are fighting over who was, uh, who was the first. I believe the Philippines was maybe the first to sign the document. And Ghana was the first to have volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then there are some people that say Nigeria as well. So maybe they were all at the same time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they, in '62, I believe, '61, '62, they went to several different places and I don't know. I think boots on the ground they were in Ghana first, but other people did some training in the United States before the Ghana thing started. So it gets to be kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had been on a plane before because you had gone to Montreal?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.690121035138159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say, and I really don't know, 60 to 80 maybe in Ghana, a lot of them teachers. Ghana needed teachers at that time. In fact, Ghana was the very first country. There's some argument, but Ghana was a very first country to, I think, have volunteers in the country. Several people are fighting over who was, uh, who was the first. I believe the Philippines was maybe the first to sign the document. And Ghana was the first to have volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then there are some people that say Nigeria as well. So maybe they were all at the same time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they, in '62, I believe, '61, '62, they went to several different places and I don't know. I think boots on the ground they were in Ghana first, but other people did some training in the United States before the Ghana thing started. So it gets to be kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had been on a plane before because you had gone to Montreal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, Montreal. Had ever been on a plane?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe you hadn't."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.211245594597953, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they, in '62, I believe, '61, '62, they went to several different places and I don't know. I think boots on the ground they were in Ghana first, but other people did some training in the United States before the Ghana thing started. So it gets to be kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had been on a plane before because you had gone to Montreal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, Montreal. Had ever been on a plane?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe you hadn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'd been on a plane to Montreal. I don't know if I'd ever done any other flying. Maybe once or twice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you flew from Philadelphia to somewhere in Europe, I assume. And then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.790272882886613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, Montreal. Had ever been on a plane?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe you hadn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'd been on a plane to Montreal. I don't know if I'd ever done any other flying. Maybe once or twice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you flew from Philadelphia to somewhere in Europe, I assume. And then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we flew to the Canary Islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, to the Canary Islands."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.544747647651793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'd been on a plane to Montreal. I don't know if I'd ever done any other flying. Maybe once or twice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you flew from Philadelphia to somewhere in Europe, I assume. And then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we flew to the Canary Islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, to the Canary Islands."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was our stop, I guess, gas up spot. And then we flew to Ghana from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your impression when you got off the plane?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.494164052946434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we flew to the Canary Islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, to the Canary Islands."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was our stop, I guess, gas up spot. And then we flew to Ghana from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your impression when you got off the plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were in the airport first. And, you know, a lot of, a lot of people there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it look like the Philadelphia airport?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.48662228758819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were in the airport first. And, you know, a lot of, a lot of people there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it look like the Philadelphia airport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At first they didn't want to let us in because we hadn't had all our shots. But they, the staff, the in-country staff, managed to get us through and we got additional shots the next morning. So they kind of cut corners a little bit. Um, Accra was a fairly big airport, but nothing like Philadelphia maybe. I'm from Fort Wayne, Indiana, maybe somewhere between Fort Wayne and Philadelphia. Nothing like a huge airport like Philadelphia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, uh, not in those days, although it's gotten bigger now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you all hopped on a bus and then you went to this training site. Is that how it worked?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.42958031954243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At first they didn't want to let us in because we hadn't had all our shots. But they, the staff, the in-country staff, managed to get us through and we got additional shots the next morning. So they kind of cut corners a little bit. Um, Accra was a fairly big airport, but nothing like Philadelphia maybe. I'm from Fort Wayne, Indiana, maybe somewhere between Fort Wayne and Philadelphia. Nothing like a huge airport like Philadelphia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, uh, not in those days, although it's gotten bigger now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you all hopped on a bus and then you went to this training site. Is that how it worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I guess. I guess we got there on a bus. And then what was interesting is the people, and this was the middle of the night, we got started late at about 2:00 and then we didn't get there until pretty late in the evening. I don't even remember what time. But then the poor people who went to Togo had to hop on another bus and go, I don't know, another hour or two to Togo. So it was a challenge. I was glad I was getting Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And what kind of training site was this? Was it a college or do you know? But was it in the, it wasn't in Accra?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.752568295731393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I guess. I guess we got there on a bus. And then what was interesting is the people, and this was the middle of the night, we got started late at about 2:00 and then we didn't get there until pretty late in the evening. I don't even remember what time. But then the poor people who went to Togo had to hop on another bus and go, I don't know, another hour or two to Togo. So it was a challenge. I was glad I was getting Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And what kind of training site was this? Was it a college or do you know? But was it in the, it wasn't in Accra?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it was near Accra. But I don't really. We weren't there very long. We were only there a couple of days. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, that part of it, I don't. I can't recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so what happened? So what happened in this training site? Language instruction?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.58339932286449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I can't. But we were there and then we were in maybe, maybe school dormitories. I guess they're out of school during the summer. And there were at least two guys and one girl. And it wasn't really all that near the place. And I'm just trying to think. The girl went up north where, but if we all learned the language of Twi, which is T-W- I, and I don't learn. I'm very good at writing languages, but I'm not very good at, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At speaking them, which got me through well in high school Latin where we didn't have to speak it much, but it was tough. It was tough for me. So anyway, mostly language training. We had Ghanaian trainers who got us oriented to the culture and things and people in town and a little bit. I particularly met a boy who was, I can't think of his name. Michael. Michael Ageymang, I don't know how to spell it. A-G-E- Y-M-A-N-G, something like that. And he was crippled on crutches and things and we became kind of good friends, although I didn't follow up much with him afterwards, although he followed up with some of my sister's friends and things and managed to talk them into sending him watches and things of that nature. But that was okay. They liked it, I guess they enjoyed doing it and they had the money to do it.\n\nSo but anyway, that training lasted, oh, maybe four weeks. And then we went to a university, Cape Coast, which is a teaching, which a teacher's university, and did a little bit more of the orientation into what the teaching was going to be like. Although I can't remember learning a whole lot from that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do practice teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really not. I had, uh, I had been a teaching assistant at the University of Wisconsin teaching chemistry. So I, you know, I had a pretty good idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew what you were doing."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.905431262795666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really not. I had, uh, I had been a teaching assistant at the University of Wisconsin teaching chemistry. So I, you know, I had a pretty good idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew what you were doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty good, as much as you, you know, I mean, you're usually following a professor's lead that's there and trying to guess what he's going to put on the test. So anything that happens in college. And so I wasn't too nervous about the teaching, although in, unlike the United States, you have to pass tests after you take so many years. And I was in a school that had both ordinary, which is sort of middle school, to high school. And then it had an advanced level, which is sort of a junior college. So you had five years of the middle high school, ordinary level, and you had two years of the advanced level. And after each of those, after the grade school actually, to get into the ordinary level, you have to take an exam. How you do determines whether you go back on the farm and use your machete, or whether you go on to ordinary school.\n\nIt also determines whether you get into a good ordinary school or not. After the ordinary five years, you take another test to get into the advanced level. And after the advanced level, you take a test to get into college. And these are very important tests. So it was a lot of, a lot of pressure on me, unlike in high schools, which are important here in the United States, but they don't test quite as well, although now there are, now a lot of these states are doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But so were you teaching at the high school level? What level were you teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It kind of ran, it was a seven year program. It kind of ran from junior high, you know, like seventh, eighth grade, to high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's where you were teaching. What was the name of the school?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.611643534315638, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It kind of ran, it was a seven year program. It kind of ran from junior high, you know, like seventh, eighth grade, to high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's where you were teaching. What was the name of the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "St. Peter's. And the town was Nkwatia, N-K-W-A-T-I-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "N-K-W."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A-T-I-A. And it was in the Kwahu region. That's K-W-A-H-U. And it was a mission, actually a mission school run by the Divine Word Order. And the principal was a priest named Father. He was German named Father William Glossel, G-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you can tell me that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.582501418814317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, all right, want me to tell you that later, after the thing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. And the vice principal was an Irish layperson, meaning he wasn't a priest or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But so it was a mission school, which made it actually, not always the mission schools were this way, but a lot of times they were this way. It was away from the village, a mile away from our village. So in some ways the experience was good and it was a very good school and I had good students. In some ways it was not as good because a lot of my friends, you know, just had a house in the middle of the village and actually learned the language a lot better and got to live in a village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you live at the school?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.869446020904796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. And the vice principal was an Irish layperson, meaning he wasn't a priest or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But so it was a mission school, which made it actually, not always the mission schools were this way, but a lot of times they were this way. It was away from the village, a mile away from our village. So in some ways the experience was good and it was a very good school and I had good students. In some ways it was not as good because a lot of my friends, you know, just had a house in the middle of the village and actually learned the language a lot better and got to live in a village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you live at the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived, yeah. They had houses at the school that we got. And so the first year I had a house alone and in the second year, two more volunteers came and we got a bigger house together so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you the first Peace Corps volunteer there or had there been others before?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.85494002322755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But so it was a mission school, which made it actually, not always the mission schools were this way, but a lot of times they were this way. It was away from the village, a mile away from our village. So in some ways the experience was good and it was a very good school and I had good students. In some ways it was not as good because a lot of my friends, you know, just had a house in the middle of the village and actually learned the language a lot better and got to live in a village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you live at the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived, yeah. They had houses at the school that we got. And so the first year I had a house alone and in the second year, two more volunteers came and we got a bigger house together so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you the first Peace Corps volunteer there or had there been others before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. The person that who had been there the year before named Dennis White had a PhD in chemistry, and he was stolen, as they might say, by the University of Cape Coast. And he moved on there and then I took his place. In fact, the while I was at Cape Coast, the head of the chemistry department wanted to steal me too, because they needed teachers there, but they wouldn't let him steal me in addition, because I had a master's degree so looked good. But and there had been Peace Corps volunteers before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were used to having Peace Corps volunteers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.949933359141722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived, yeah. They had houses at the school that we got. And so the first year I had a house alone and in the second year, two more volunteers came and we got a bigger house together so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you the first Peace Corps volunteer there or had there been others before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. The person that who had been there the year before named Dennis White had a PhD in chemistry, and he was stolen, as they might say, by the University of Cape Coast. And he moved on there and then I took his place. In fact, the while I was at Cape Coast, the head of the chemistry department wanted to steal me too, because they needed teachers there, but they wouldn't let him steal me in addition, because I had a master's degree so looked good. But and there had been Peace Corps volunteers before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were used to having Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were used to having Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the other teachers speak English?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.283868344619409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were used to having Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the other teachers speak English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's a, I guess the official language is English. The, um, the language in. There's probably at least four or five languages in different parts of the country. So it, um. Educated, you know, students who had been to school spoke English although somewhat of a Ghanaian English. Use the word aluminum and they used a lot of British pronunciation and they, you know, had spellings and had some of their own, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Words."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Words that were, you know, Ghanaian of origin. And they spoke with a little bit of a Ghanaian accent that you had to get used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you basically got by on English."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.648742605132677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's a, I guess the official language is English. The, um, the language in. There's probably at least four or five languages in different parts of the country. So it, um. Educated, you know, students who had been to school spoke English although somewhat of a Ghanaian English. Use the word aluminum and they used a lot of British pronunciation and they, you know, had spellings and had some of their own, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Words."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Words that were, you know, Ghanaian of origin. And they spoke with a little bit of a Ghanaian accent that you had to get used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you basically got by on English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically, no. Basically, by the time they were out of, um, out of elementary school, they were supposed to know English pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how was your teaching experience in Ghana different than your teaching experience in the United States?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.16526956125853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Words that were, you know, Ghanaian of origin. And they spoke with a little bit of a Ghanaian accent that you had to get used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you basically got by on English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically, no. Basically, by the time they were out of, um, out of elementary school, they were supposed to know English pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how was your teaching experience in Ghana different than your teaching experience in the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was only taught in college in the United States, and I only taught as a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were basically in middle school, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 18.722555013899417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was only taught in college in the United States, and I only taught as a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were basically in middle school, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Advanced?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was all the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did all of that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.691727793221572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Advanced?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was all the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did all of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of it. I had been, I've done, um, from, this was like junior college. I did a little bit of first year. I did some third year. They threw me in in math because they were short on math teachers. I did third year math. I did. And then I took over. It's a five year program. I took over when I came fourth year chemistry and then the next year I did fifth year because that was when they were taking the exams. So I took the kids through that and then I did first year junior college or advanced level the first year, and then I did the second year to take them through the test the second year. And sometimes it'd be in a year I'd have, you know, I'd have 27 or 28, 40 minute periods or so because teachers didn't show up. They tried to avoid going. This was awful in the bushes. They all wanted to teach in the big cities. So they tried to avoid coming after their assignments. And so we'd start the year short on teachers and they'd throw you in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's spend a little bit of time. So where, where were you? Which part of the country was this in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.657475325801746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was all the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did all of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of it. I had been, I've done, um, from, this was like junior college. I did a little bit of first year. I did some third year. They threw me in in math because they were short on math teachers. I did third year math. I did. And then I took over. It's a five year program. I took over when I came fourth year chemistry and then the next year I did fifth year because that was when they were taking the exams. So I took the kids through that and then I did first year junior college or advanced level the first year, and then I did the second year to take them through the test the second year. And sometimes it'd be in a year I'd have, you know, I'd have 27 or 28, 40 minute periods or so because teachers didn't show up. They tried to avoid going. This was awful in the bushes. They all wanted to teach in the big cities. So they tried to avoid coming after their assignments. And so we'd start the year short on teachers and they'd throw you in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's spend a little bit of time. So where, where were you? Which part of the country was this in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was in the. I was about probably 40 to 50 miles north of the capital, Accra, which is on the, uh, I've got to think direction, east end of the country, on the ocean. And I was north and a little bit east of Ghana, which I would say is in the far southwest of Accra. Which is in the far southwest of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was the town?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.247565604666319, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't really get a population figure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tiny?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Relatively small, probably under probably 1,000 people or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was life like in 1972 in this small city, small town?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.719517338518132, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tiny?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Relatively small, probably under probably 1,000 people or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was life like in 1972 in this small city, small town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I say, I wasn't in the town. I was on the campus. I didn't. I had a nice cement house and a shower and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh you did?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.243908153909036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Relatively small, probably under probably 1,000 people or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was life like in 1972 in this small city, small town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I say, I wasn't in the town. I was on the campus. I didn't. I had a nice cement house and a shower and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had showers. And although I tended. We had, in a second house I had. I can't remember if I did in the first house. Second year we had, uh, maybe the first year too. We had a, we collected the water off the roof of the house and it went under the house and the second year I had about 6,000 gallon water tank of rainwater, basically. So the water was very hard, rusty. And so for showers, I used to warm it up and use a bucket for showers because the other water would make you feel dirtier than."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So the first year, were there are other teachers, other Peace Corps there the first year?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.241591455432154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had that feel. But I never asked, I thought it was none of my business. And while they were there, they had a daughter, and the British couple had about a five or six year old son. And then the French couple were young and were serving like they're doing their service much like the Peace Corps. I think they had to do service somewhere. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that your social group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was. I don't know if I've said this before, but that was kind of the difficulty of the school too. The administration considered you part of the overall staff. The staff kind of considered you a part of the administration because you're white. And so it was. Maybe it was me, but I think generally we tended to, tended to, you know, group together and didn't have strong relationships with the other staff other than on an academic, you know, point of view. We were pretty much together, although I was basically the only chemistry teacher. We had a biology, basically had a biology teacher. And although what, I guess we did have. I did have a second and we did have a second chemistry teacher. But a lot of times, you know, they went off to their house, they had families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you really didn't interact that much?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't interact too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you stay in touch with the British or Irish or French couples?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.823990506035726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was. I don't know if I've said this before, but that was kind of the difficulty of the school too. The administration considered you part of the overall staff. The staff kind of considered you a part of the administration because you're white. And so it was. Maybe it was me, but I think generally we tended to, tended to, you know, group together and didn't have strong relationships with the other staff other than on an academic, you know, point of view. We were pretty much together, although I was basically the only chemistry teacher. We had a biology, basically had a biology teacher. And although what, I guess we did have. I did have a second and we did have a second chemistry teacher. But a lot of times, you know, they went off to their house, they had families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you really didn't interact that much?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't interact too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you stay in touch with the British or Irish or French couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, I visited the French and Irish couple on my way back, but didn't keep contact with them. I think a couple of times I wrote and I don't know, I can't remember whether they didn't write or write back or what but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were your students like? Did you spend a lot of time with the students?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.248878340039695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't interact too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you stay in touch with the British or Irish or French couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, I visited the French and Irish couple on my way back, but didn't keep contact with them. I think a couple of times I wrote and I don't know, I can't remember whether they didn't write or write back or what but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were your students like? Did you spend a lot of time with the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yeah. I mean, there was a lot of work to be done. And they were. Actually it was one of the better, better schools and sometimes argued to be. I never sure whether it was true or not, but they argued they were the best school in the country and had the best scores in the country. So there was quite a bit of pressure by the school and the students themselves to do well. I had probably my best student in, um, who took the ordinary level exam. They used to say he came from a farm and, you know, really wanted to get ahead. He didn't want to go back to having to work every day. And they used to say that, some kids told me he had a flashlight and he used to, they were supposed to go to bed, you know, at 10:00, 9:00, 10:00. And he had a flashlight and used to study well into the night so. And he was very bright. Although surprisingly, the school scores on the exams were from 1 to 9. And I think surprisingly on chemistry, about half of my kids got ones. Half my kids got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One is top or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.832087044488551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, I visited the French and Irish couple on my way back, but didn't keep contact with them. I think a couple of times I wrote and I don't know, I can't remember whether they didn't write or write back or what but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were your students like? Did you spend a lot of time with the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yeah. I mean, there was a lot of work to be done. And they were. Actually it was one of the better, better schools and sometimes argued to be. I never sure whether it was true or not, but they argued they were the best school in the country and had the best scores in the country. So there was quite a bit of pressure by the school and the students themselves to do well. I had probably my best student in, um, who took the ordinary level exam. They used to say he came from a farm and, you know, really wanted to get ahead. He didn't want to go back to having to work every day. And they used to say that, some kids told me he had a flashlight and he used to, they were supposed to go to bed, you know, at 10:00, 9:00, 10:00. And he had a flashlight and used to study well into the night so. And he was very bright. Although surprisingly, the school scores on the exams were from 1 to 9. And I think surprisingly on chemistry, about half of my kids got ones. Half my kids got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One is top or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One is top. One is top, and about half got a two. I think I had maybe a couple threes and a four. So they were very good students. And I think I saw, I think I got a list of scores. I think he might have gotten a two, which was surprising, but he was very good at math and everything. He was amazing. I wish I could remember his name. I may have my book, actually, but I'd like to find out what he."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What happened to him? Did he go to, did he go away to college while you were there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.5912078272095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yeah. I mean, there was a lot of work to be done. And they were. Actually it was one of the better, better schools and sometimes argued to be. I never sure whether it was true or not, but they argued they were the best school in the country and had the best scores in the country. So there was quite a bit of pressure by the school and the students themselves to do well. I had probably my best student in, um, who took the ordinary level exam. They used to say he came from a farm and, you know, really wanted to get ahead. He didn't want to go back to having to work every day. And they used to say that, some kids told me he had a flashlight and he used to, they were supposed to go to bed, you know, at 10:00, 9:00, 10:00. And he had a flashlight and used to study well into the night so. And he was very bright. Although surprisingly, the school scores on the exams were from 1 to 9. And I think surprisingly on chemistry, about half of my kids got ones. Half my kids got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One is top or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One is top. One is top, and about half got a two. I think I had maybe a couple threes and a four. So they were very good students. And I think I saw, I think I got a list of scores. I think he might have gotten a two, which was surprising, but he was very good at math and everything. He was amazing. I wish I could remember his name. I may have my book, actually, but I'd like to find out what he."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What happened to him? Did he go to, did he go away to college while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, because he was in the ordinary level. So he had to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he had to still go up."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.54578647467722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One is top. One is top, and about half got a two. I think I had maybe a couple threes and a four. So they were very good students. And I think I saw, I think I got a list of scores. I think he might have gotten a two, which was surprising, but he was very good at math and everything. He was amazing. I wish I could remember his name. I may have my book, actually, but I'd like to find out what he."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What happened to him? Did he go to, did he go away to college while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, because he was in the ordinary level. So he had to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he had to still go up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had to go on to the advanced level. Yeah. Some of my kids did go to college and a couple of them, I should have followed up more, but I got. I got busy and I feel bad, you know, I feel bad about that. I should have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you travel while you were in Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 21.717540527419136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, because he was in the ordinary level. So he had to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he had to still go up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had to go on to the advanced level. Yeah. Some of my kids did go to college and a couple of them, I should have followed up more, but I got. I got busy and I feel bad, you know, I feel bad about that. I should have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you travel while you were in Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Peace Corps? While in the Peace Corps, we went to the beach often. That was kind of our favorite hang."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far were you from the beach? Hours away or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.352822808243484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had to go on to the advanced level. Yeah. Some of my kids did go to college and a couple of them, I should have followed up more, but I got. I got busy and I feel bad, you know, I feel bad about that. I should have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you travel while you were in Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Peace Corps? While in the Peace Corps, we went to the beach often. That was kind of our favorite hang."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far were you from the beach? Hours away or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably 2 hours total. Sometimes there was a, there was a hostel in Accra, and we used to always meet in Accra and hang out at the hostel, sometimes for several days. And the beds were crude things like that. But I don't know, we were only paying a few bucks a night, so it was cheap. And a lot of people there from the Peace Corps and other places, you know, just traveling around. And so we usually met there and then went down to a beach called Takoradi. And the interesting thing about beaches there is that Ghanaians don't go to the beach, they don't swim, and they think that it's, swimming is for fishermen, which is a low level job. So we used to be on the beach and, you know, maybe we'd have a beach almost all to ourselves. Maybe we'd have no more than ten people pass us all day. So yeah, I went to Hawaii one time and it was like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All these people."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.947580898048315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Peace Corps? While in the Peace Corps, we went to the beach often. That was kind of our favorite hang."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far were you from the beach? Hours away or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably 2 hours total. Sometimes there was a, there was a hostel in Accra, and we used to always meet in Accra and hang out at the hostel, sometimes for several days. And the beds were crude things like that. But I don't know, we were only paying a few bucks a night, so it was cheap. And a lot of people there from the Peace Corps and other places, you know, just traveling around. And so we usually met there and then went down to a beach called Takoradi. And the interesting thing about beaches there is that Ghanaians don't go to the beach, they don't swim, and they think that it's, swimming is for fishermen, which is a low level job. So we used to be on the beach and, you know, maybe we'd have a beach almost all to ourselves. Maybe we'd have no more than ten people pass us all day. So yeah, I went to Hawaii one time and it was like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All these people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hawaii and the Jersey beaches and everywhere else. Whoa, whoa. Where's my, where's Takoradi?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, your private beach."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.719534331164795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably 2 hours total. Sometimes there was a, there was a hostel in Accra, and we used to always meet in Accra and hang out at the hostel, sometimes for several days. And the beds were crude things like that. But I don't know, we were only paying a few bucks a night, so it was cheap. And a lot of people there from the Peace Corps and other places, you know, just traveling around. And so we usually met there and then went down to a beach called Takoradi. And the interesting thing about beaches there is that Ghanaians don't go to the beach, they don't swim, and they think that it's, swimming is for fishermen, which is a low level job. So we used to be on the beach and, you know, maybe we'd have a beach almost all to ourselves. Maybe we'd have no more than ten people pass us all day. So yeah, I went to Hawaii one time and it was like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All these people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hawaii and the Jersey beaches and everywhere else. Whoa, whoa. Where's my, where's Takoradi?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, your private beach."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, private beach. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you saw Peace Corps volunteers a lot?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.577260367960882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hawaii and the Jersey beaches and everywhere else. Whoa, whoa. Where's my, where's Takoradi?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, your private beach."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, private beach. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you saw Peace Corps volunteers a lot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a fair amount. Although we were kind of, not at the beach. We didn't. We kind of hung out with the same people. And always, one fact, what we did was we, there was a castle, an old castle near there and we used to get a room for about a dollar a night there. And it had straw mattresses. And so it was kind of crude, but it was cheap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is a Ghanaian king's castle or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.67662601915073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was a British, former British castle, as I recall. And, you know, that used to protect their, um, their hold. They were the, they were the ruling class. And they owned it before, if you will. And actually, Ghana was the first country in the early sixties, I think like '60, '61, that got its independence from Britain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was called the Gold Coast before that. And then other trip I took. Well, actually, we took one trip up to, um, well, this was called Upper Volta. And I now I think it's back to a French name. It was a French colony just north of Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Burkina Faso?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I believe so. And then we went to, on New Year's Eve, we were at the border of Niger. And I was going to visit a Peace Corps person I had met, but we kind of were running out of time and there were these, like wooden seated trucks that you had to go. And we kind of chickened out to go up there, and we were kind of running out of time. We had to get back to teach. So anyway, I'm disappointed that I didn't do that, but I didn't know if I could handle after the travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's your most memorable memory of your time teaching? If you think back."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.529584465723033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was called the Gold Coast before that. And then other trip I took. Well, actually, we took one trip up to, um, well, this was called Upper Volta. And I now I think it's back to a French name. It was a French colony just north of Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Burkina Faso?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I believe so. And then we went to, on New Year's Eve, we were at the border of Niger. And I was going to visit a Peace Corps person I had met, but we kind of were running out of time and there were these, like wooden seated trucks that you had to go. And we kind of chickened out to go up there, and we were kind of running out of time. We had to get back to teach. So anyway, I'm disappointed that I didn't do that, but I didn't know if I could handle after the travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's your most memorable memory of your time teaching? If you think back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than teaching itself?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, was teaching itself the most memorable thing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.032871628581146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I believe so. And then we went to, on New Year's Eve, we were at the border of Niger. And I was going to visit a Peace Corps person I had met, but we kind of were running out of time and there were these, like wooden seated trucks that you had to go. And we kind of chickened out to go up there, and we were kind of running out of time. We had to get back to teach. So anyway, I'm disappointed that I didn't do that, but I didn't know if I could handle after the travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's your most memorable memory of your time teaching? If you think back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than teaching itself?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, was teaching itself the most memorable thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's pretty memorable. I guess, we did. I did a trip on my own, actually, to Nigeria, which is west of Ghana. There's two little countries, as I mentioned before, Togo and Dahomey [now Benin], and went to Nigeria and did a circular path in Nigeria. And that trip was kind of exciting. I met someone in Ghana who said, oh, come visit me in Nigeria and I went to, I can't think of the town, but it had been part of the Biafran War movement in the sixties and seventies and it was a little bit wild. And I went there and tried to find this guy, but I couldn't. So I don't know whether he was playing a joke on me or whether they just wouldn't refer me or not. But eventually I found a place to stay and then took off from there. And then I went up to the northern Muslim, um, Islam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Part of Nigeria?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.369857365090162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than teaching itself?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, was teaching itself the most memorable thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's pretty memorable. I guess, we did. I did a trip on my own, actually, to Nigeria, which is west of Ghana. There's two little countries, as I mentioned before, Togo and Dahomey [now Benin], and went to Nigeria and did a circular path in Nigeria. And that trip was kind of exciting. I met someone in Ghana who said, oh, come visit me in Nigeria and I went to, I can't think of the town, but it had been part of the Biafran War movement in the sixties and seventies and it was a little bit wild. And I went there and tried to find this guy, but I couldn't. So I don't know whether he was playing a joke on me or whether they just wouldn't refer me or not. But eventually I found a place to stay and then took off from there. And then I went up to the northern Muslim, um, Islam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Part of Nigeria?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Called Kano is probably the biggest city, K-A-N-O. And that was interesting and safer, I think, than it is nowadays because that's where they've had a lot of, up in the, um, where they had a lot of the kidnappings and things most recently. The ride up there was very interesting. I happen to be seated next to a young man who had read Time magazine and he was very upset that, uh, the way we wrote about Nigeria in Time magazine and, you know, and how we had sort of indicated, how the article had sort of indicated they were a backward country and everything else. And that Time, for a while I was kind of worried about the views, a little bit, of upsetting the type of person who I was afraid was going to get upset."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you respond to him?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.957715843758818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ghana. And so, you know, people told me there was going to be a, I was going to have trouble with the border and getting by and they were going to give me trouble at the border. But actually, the border guards were very friendly. I was, you know, I'm six, I was 6'7\", 6'8\" at that time. And one of the border guards was almost as tall as I was. And so he was joking around with me. And they were very, they were very friendly to me at the border. Sometimes you get away with the height and sometimes it hurts. But in Nigeria, sometimes they want to pick on you because you're tall. But in Nigeria, I had really no difficulties and they were, to me, most of them were very friendly. Although they were a little more intense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it seem culturally? More intense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The town, you know, like Lagos is just packed. And, you know, some, you know, you'll see big buildings, but off in the distance, you'll see squalor, you know, just huts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't have that in Ghana?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.50857315973202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The town, you know, like Lagos is just packed. And, you know, some, you know, you'll see big buildings, but off in the distance, you'll see squalor, you know, just huts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't have that in Ghana?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much in Ghana. Accra was crowded, but didn't have the feel of Nigeria, didn't have the feel of squalor in Nigeria, that Nigeria had. Kind of some. One person told me this, I guess my friend who had been in Kenya, my British friend who'd been in Kenya, said that Nairobi, Kenya, is very modern and looks like a European city. Accra looks like the rest of, in a lot of ways, it looks like the rest of the country. But the villages in Nigeria are very primitive, and whereas the villages in Ghana are much better. So it's a more even distribution of things. The city, Accra, had open sewers and things so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.120636844146688, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much in Ghana. Accra was crowded, but didn't have the feel of Nigeria, didn't have the feel of squalor in Nigeria, that Nigeria had. Kind of some. One person told me this, I guess my friend who had been in Kenya, my British friend who'd been in Kenya, said that Nairobi, Kenya, is very modern and looks like a European city. Accra looks like the rest of, in a lot of ways, it looks like the rest of the country. But the villages in Nigeria are very primitive, and whereas the villages in Ghana are much better. So it's a more even distribution of things. The city, Accra, had open sewers and things so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Accra, in the capital. And Kumasi, which is the, which is the other big tribal town. Kumasi is K-U-M-A-S-I. So they're a little different. And Nigeria was just, you know, they had oil at the time and it was just a kind of a very crowded. And I think they're doing better now, as is Ghana, actually. But it's just very crowded. Very crowded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent two years teaching."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.911818715718542, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much in Ghana. Accra was crowded, but didn't have the feel of Nigeria, didn't have the feel of squalor in Nigeria, that Nigeria had. Kind of some. One person told me this, I guess my friend who had been in Kenya, my British friend who'd been in Kenya, said that Nairobi, Kenya, is very modern and looks like a European city. Accra looks like the rest of, in a lot of ways, it looks like the rest of the country. But the villages in Nigeria are very primitive, and whereas the villages in Ghana are much better. So it's a more even distribution of things. The city, Accra, had open sewers and things so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Accra, in the capital. And Kumasi, which is the, which is the other big tribal town. Kumasi is K-U-M-A-S-I. So they're a little different. And Nigeria was just, you know, they had oil at the time and it was just a kind of a very crowded. And I think they're doing better now, as is Ghana, actually. But it's just very crowded. Very crowded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent two years teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent two years teaching."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.902020795242823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Accra, in the capital. And Kumasi, which is the, which is the other big tribal town. Kumasi is K-U-M-A-S-I. So they're a little different. And Nigeria was just, you know, they had oil at the time and it was just a kind of a very crowded. And I think they're doing better now, as is Ghana, actually. But it's just very crowded. Very crowded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent two years teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent two years teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years teaching, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then what happened after Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.557800883603136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent two years teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years teaching, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then what happened after Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After Peace Corps, I came home and, well, actually, I spent about three months in Europe. London, France. Went down to visit my friends in southern France, trying to think of the town, but I can't right now. And then went to Switzerland and Germany. I'm German. So actually I did go back to, I did not go back to visit my relatives there, but I kind of would have liked to. But did some hitchhiking and took trains and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on your own then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.226064312212802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, pretty much on my own, yeah. I did hook up with a person in Germany who had a car and gave me a ride for a little while. Hooked up with a few people here and there, but pretty much on my own. I could have made it more interesting had I planned it out a little better. I was kind of just doing a wandering, a little bit of a wandering trip, but it was interesting. And then I got tickets to fly back on Icelandic Airlines. So I went to, uh, at that time I was flying out of Luxembourg, pretty much flying out of Luxembourg only for Europe. And I flew from Luxembourg and spent about three or four days in Iceland and then flew back to New York, visited a friend, and came home on the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To Indiana?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fort Wayne."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, I didn't. My mother was going to go down to the bus station, pick me up. I didn't know that. But I took the, I took the regular Fort Wayne busses home and just showed up. So, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.140071458014223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fort Wayne."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, I didn't. My mother was going to go down to the bus station, pick me up. I didn't know that. But I took the, I took the regular Fort Wayne busses home and just showed up. So, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reentry hard?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.209179303091448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But what Chemical Abstracts does is abstract and index the chemical literature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And uh, they had started computerizing everything because there are, well, now there's I think a million documents published. I believe there are half a million documents that they index and abstract every year. Patents, articles, conference proceedings, everything in chemistry. Chemistry is very big. And it was growing after the World War II, it was growing very rapidly. And so it was taking, they had almost shut down their operation for four months to create a five year index. They had an index, I believe, that was every six months that they published. And it took them like four months to do, to insert cards by hand to, because there are millions of, you know, there are millions of entries. And so and, you know, doing the compounds and things was difficult. So in the early sixties, actually, there were three organizations, I'm kind of going off topic.\n\nBut there were three organizations, British, Germans, and American Chemical Society, that published indexing and half drafting books. The other two went out of business in the late sixties because they didn't computerize. But from very smart thing, they computerized and even put compounds via connection tables. What atoms connected to what atoms. So now what that did for them is it speeded up their indexing tremendously. But it also created a file, a computerized file of chemical compounds. And now that file is probably 125 million different compounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you can search it by a picture basically. You can say, I want a molecule that has this as a part. And then you go into the whole file and it comes up with all the molecules that have that as a part, which is useful to a drug. For example, it's useful to a drug company who may say, I want this, I want a, this is not quite working. It has a bad side effect that's putting you asleep. And have there been other things made like it that we could, you know, we could consider and test or? So that you can find everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you are involved in all that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.431085559372157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you can search it by a picture basically. You can say, I want a molecule that has this as a part. And then you go into the whole file and it comes up with all the molecules that have that as a part, which is useful to a drug. For example, it's useful to a drug company who may say, I want this, I want a, this is not quite working. It has a bad side effect that's putting you asleep. And have there been other things made like it that we could, you know, we could consider and test or? So that you can find everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you are involved in all that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got lucky. I originally started by drawing the compounds from the article, but I got moved into marketing and coordinated their workshop program for a while, which was a boring, senseless type of job. But eventually I got, um, I got a chance to get out of there and get into product development. And actually one of the things I pushed first was they used to come. Besides doing the workshops, they used to call me with technical questions about how to search for this or how to find this so. And I started seeing that we don't, we really didn't have a complete search service that would allow us to do that. So I said, you know, we had to get a search service and do this for people and, you know, get paid for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I started that and we hired some. They said, do you want to run it? And I said, I don't know. It just doesn't seem like, it's interesting but doesn't seem like it's going to go anywhere. So we hired somebody. I helped him coordinate it and let him do it. Actually, it's grown to about 12 to 15 employees. I thought it had some potential, but at the time to grow. But now it's a really big thing. And they've actually not only have their files online, but they have a whole bunch of other people's files online. So it's a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a big deal."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.705043900459453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I started that and we hired some. They said, do you want to run it? And I said, I don't know. It just doesn't seem like, it's interesting but doesn't seem like it's going to go anywhere. So we hired somebody. I helped him coordinate it and let him do it. Actually, it's grown to about 12 to 15 employees. I thought it had some potential, but at the time to grow. But now it's a really big thing. And they've actually not only have their files online, but they have a whole bunch of other people's files online. So it's a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a big deal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not big there, but not big in the total scheme of the organization. But it is, but it got, grew a lot more than I did. And then I got to, then I took over projects that connected reactants with products, chemical reaction file. And I didn't do the technical part of that, but I was a business marketing coordinator and project leader for those things, and also a thing that covers patent formulas, which are vague formulas. You know, it has an X and says X can be chlorine, bromine, methyl and things like that. And so it covered those. So I coordinated both of those projects until I left in '76? '86. And both of them are at least, I don't know how they're doing, but they're at least still running. So that's nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did Peace Corps have an impact on your life? You've gone back to teaching I hear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has it had an, do you think it's had an impact on your life?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.338937667177169, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not big there, but not big in the total scheme of the organization. But it is, but it got, grew a lot more than I did. And then I got to, then I took over projects that connected reactants with products, chemical reaction file. And I didn't do the technical part of that, but I was a business marketing coordinator and project leader for those things, and also a thing that covers patent formulas, which are vague formulas. You know, it has an X and says X can be chlorine, bromine, methyl and things like that. And so it covered those. So I coordinated both of those projects until I left in '76? '86. And both of them are at least, I don't know how they're doing, but they're at least still running. So that's nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did Peace Corps have an impact on your life? You've gone back to teaching I hear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has it had an, do you think it's had an impact on your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it's, you know, I feel that it's an experience that, um. You know, you can't just visit a country and really understand it. I felt that I got to know people, got to know students at least, not people quite as, not the regular town people, which I wish I had done better. I had more chance to do. But you get to know the kids in the countries and their goals and things like that, that I don't think anybody can do by just visiting for a week or two. And so maybe I'm not even that thrilled about travel. Just, you know, I'm not a real, let's go see this art museum thing. So maybe I don't appreciate travel as much as I could because I feel you're not getting much of an experience sometimes. But it was a good experience. I mean, it's kind of hard to look back and say, oh, I did this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, for some people, they, you know, they became teachers or whatever it is that they did. They spent the rest of their careers overseas. But that really didn't happen with you."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.043264074641299, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has it had an, do you think it's had an impact on your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it's, you know, I feel that it's an experience that, um. You know, you can't just visit a country and really understand it. I felt that I got to know people, got to know students at least, not people quite as, not the regular town people, which I wish I had done better. I had more chance to do. But you get to know the kids in the countries and their goals and things like that, that I don't think anybody can do by just visiting for a week or two. And so maybe I'm not even that thrilled about travel. Just, you know, I'm not a real, let's go see this art museum thing. So maybe I don't appreciate travel as much as I could because I feel you're not getting much of an experience sometimes. But it was a good experience. I mean, it's kind of hard to look back and say, oh, I did this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, for some people, they, you know, they became teachers or whatever it is that they did. They spent the rest of their careers overseas. But that really didn't happen with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don't know. I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good experience."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.492515638490332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it's, you know, I feel that it's an experience that, um. You know, you can't just visit a country and really understand it. I felt that I got to know people, got to know students at least, not people quite as, not the regular town people, which I wish I had done better. I had more chance to do. But you get to know the kids in the countries and their goals and things like that, that I don't think anybody can do by just visiting for a week or two. And so maybe I'm not even that thrilled about travel. Just, you know, I'm not a real, let's go see this art museum thing. So maybe I don't appreciate travel as much as I could because I feel you're not getting much of an experience sometimes. But it was a good experience. I mean, it's kind of hard to look back and say, oh, I did this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, for some people, they, you know, they became teachers or whatever it is that they did. They spent the rest of their careers overseas. But that really didn't happen with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don't know. I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a good experience. And, you know, I actually I did interview for some jobs overseas, but by that time I had friends and things and didn't really go. I could have taught in a Saudi Arabian school. Actually I had an interview with a, with somebody from Saudi Arabia and I thought he asked me all sorts of difficult questions and I thought, oh, he's, we're not connecting at all. And it was about three or four months later, they wrote and said, are you interested? By then I just didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Want to do that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.9916840427670355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don't know. I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a good experience. And, you know, I actually I did interview for some jobs overseas, but by that time I had friends and things and didn't really go. I could have taught in a Saudi Arabian school. Actually I had an interview with a, with somebody from Saudi Arabia and I thought he asked me all sorts of difficult questions and I thought, oh, he's, we're not connecting at all. And it was about three or four months later, they wrote and said, are you interested? By then I just didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Want to do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably could have made some decent money there, but just didn't, uh, by that time I was just kind of connected in Columbus and didn't want to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think your Peace Corps experience had any impact on the country itself, or more broadly, all the teachers that were there and your students? You're a good chemistry teacher."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.546315603074484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a good experience. And, you know, I actually I did interview for some jobs overseas, but by that time I had friends and things and didn't really go. I could have taught in a Saudi Arabian school. Actually I had an interview with a, with somebody from Saudi Arabia and I thought he asked me all sorts of difficult questions and I thought, oh, he's, we're not connecting at all. And it was about three or four months later, they wrote and said, are you interested? By then I just didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Want to do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably could have made some decent money there, but just didn't, uh, by that time I was just kind of connected in Columbus and didn't want to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think your Peace Corps experience had any impact on the country itself, or more broadly, all the teachers that were there and your students? You're a good chemistry teacher."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think hopefully I, you know, kind of set an example of, you know, working hard and digging into things. I think that, um, that had hopefully had an influence on some of the students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And any thoughts about Peace Corps, its impact on the United States? Has it had any, do you think?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.05146178119387, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably could have made some decent money there, but just didn't, uh, by that time I was just kind of connected in Columbus and didn't want to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think your Peace Corps experience had any impact on the country itself, or more broadly, all the teachers that were there and your students? You're a good chemistry teacher."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think hopefully I, you know, kind of set an example of, you know, working hard and digging into things. I think that, um, that had hopefully had an influence on some of the students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And any thoughts about Peace Corps, its impact on the United States? Has it had any, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think, you know, when you see all. When you go to these big meetings and see a lot of people and probably not all of them are there, and what they've done afterwards, I think it's, you know, I think it is. And, you know, I don't know how many. I know you were busy with different things, but one speaker had been, had a high position with the United Nations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kul Chandra Gautam of Nepal."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.3905130902154106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think hopefully I, you know, kind of set an example of, you know, working hard and digging into things. I think that, um, that had hopefully had an influence on some of the students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And any thoughts about Peace Corps, its impact on the United States? Has it had any, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think, you know, when you see all. When you go to these big meetings and see a lot of people and probably not all of them are there, and what they've done afterwards, I think it's, you know, I think it is. And, you know, I don't know how many. I know you were busy with different things, but one speaker had been, had a high position with the United Nations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kul Chandra Gautam of Nepal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nepal. Had Peace Corps teachers, and they had a great influence in what was it, Ecuador? What country was it? That somebody, the head of state, you know, had a real good experience with and felt that the Peace Corps volunteer had made a real difference in his life. So I think there are a lot of them. I wish I would have followed more of my students to find out. I did run into one person. I don't know that I ever had him in class, but he kind of remembers me. I don't remember him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You met him here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6561256557949005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think, you know, when you see all. When you go to these big meetings and see a lot of people and probably not all of them are there, and what they've done afterwards, I think it's, you know, I think it is. And, you know, I don't know how many. I know you were busy with different things, but one speaker had been, had a high position with the United Nations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kul Chandra Gautam of Nepal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nepal. Had Peace Corps teachers, and they had a great influence in what was it, Ecuador? What country was it? That somebody, the head of state, you know, had a real good experience with and felt that the Peace Corps volunteer had made a real difference in his life. So I think there are a lot of them. I wish I would have followed more of my students to find out. I did run into one person. I don't know that I ever had him in class, but he kind of remembers me. I don't remember him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You met him here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't really meet him, you know, I ran into him on LinkedIn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9512507286610004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nepal. Had Peace Corps teachers, and they had a great influence in what was it, Ecuador? What country was it? That somebody, the head of state, you know, had a real good experience with and felt that the Peace Corps volunteer had made a real difference in his life. So I think there are a lot of them. I wish I would have followed more of my students to find out. I did run into one person. I don't know that I ever had him in class, but he kind of remembers me. I don't remember him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You met him here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't really meet him, you know, I ran into him on LinkedIn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we talked a little bit. But, um, but I, again, if I can still. I'm going to have to go back and see if I can find my grade books and things and see if I can look some of these kids up on the internet and see what they're, if I can figure out what they're doing but uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, great. So are you in touch with any of the people from your Nigeria group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2791674762900005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't really meet him, you know, I ran into him on LinkedIn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we talked a little bit. But, um, but I, again, if I can still. I'm going to have to go back and see if I can find my grade books and things and see if I can look some of these kids up on the internet and see what they're, if I can figure out what they're doing but uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, great. So are you in touch with any of the people from your Nigeria group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, Ghana group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I meant Ghana group. I'm sorry."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6435194181000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we talked a little bit. But, um, but I, again, if I can still. I'm going to have to go back and see if I can find my grade books and things and see if I can look some of these kids up on the internet and see what they're, if I can figure out what they're doing but uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, great. So are you in touch with any of the people from your Nigeria group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, Ghana group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I meant Ghana group. I'm sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A few of my Peace Corps friends there, but not with any of my students. Actually, I had the interesting. I had the son of the head of state while I, in Ghana, was in our school. And I taught him math, I believe, and his dad eventually was overthrown and executed. But I guess he got to Europe for a while. And I happened to run into somebody who knew him and had been going to military school, you know, young military school, when he was young. And they were saying that he's going kind of crazy, I guess, over the whole thing. I guess he's back in Ghana and I don't know. I think I was reading about him, which is a very sad story because he seemed like a pretty nice kid, I guess a little off I read somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And his father was?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.048354909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, Ghana group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I meant Ghana group. I'm sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A few of my Peace Corps friends there, but not with any of my students. Actually, I had the interesting. I had the son of the head of state while I, in Ghana, was in our school. And I taught him math, I believe, and his dad eventually was overthrown and executed. But I guess he got to Europe for a while. And I happened to run into somebody who knew him and had been going to military school, you know, young military school, when he was young. And they were saying that he's going kind of crazy, I guess, over the whole thing. I guess he's back in Ghana and I don't know. I think I was reading about him, which is a very sad story because he seemed like a pretty nice kid, I guess a little off I read somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And his father was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "His father was basically president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5411788999999998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His father was basically president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Acheampong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was overthrown?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the early ‘70s, he was overthrown by, uh, shoot, somebody with an American name who has since been, who has since left. But he's the guy who took over was in power for a long time. There was always articles at the, in the newspapers, full of articles that the previous administration, Tu Acheampong, had been corrupt. And it, uh, which isn't unlike the United States especially today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So are there any other, anything else you want to talk about your experience? I'm basically out of questions."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9026899999999998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the early ‘70s, he was overthrown by, uh, shoot, somebody with an American name who has since been, who has since left. But he's the guy who took over was in power for a long time. There was always articles at the, in the newspapers, full of articles that the previous administration, Tu Acheampong, had been corrupt. And it, uh, which isn't unlike the United States especially today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So are there any other, anything else you want to talk about your experience? I'm basically out of questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, um. It was a good experience and I'm glad I did it. And, you know, there were things during and afterwards I wish I had, you know, had followed up on, done better. I did have one. I'll give you one more experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My next-door neighbor was Ghanaian and he was a biology teacher. And we got along pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your next-door neighbor in Ghana?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1140999999999996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, um. It was a good experience and I'm glad I did it. And, you know, there were things during and afterwards I wish I had, you know, had followed up on, done better. I did have one. I'll give you one more experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My next-door neighbor was Ghanaian and he was a biology teacher. And we got along pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your next-door neighbor in Ghana?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Ghana, you know, he was a teacher and had a place. Anyway, he, um. I was over. The Irish couple and their daughter were over at his place one day and I had my camera and wanted to take a picture of the daughter who was, I don't know, near the chicken coops or something. But so I took a picture of her and he got very upset. And eventually I had to give up the camera and the film because he said, had done, had some, had stayed with or and had, you know, was friends with some other Peace Corps people who had taken pictures of him while he was asleep. And I don't know, that was kind of taboo. And he was very upset by that. So he was upset with my having taken picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Takes your spirit away."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, I don't know. It kind of, it was kind of upsetting to me that I. And we didn't talk much, although we worked very close together. But eventually we became friends and he helped me, you know, eventually we got back together and he helped me. He took me down to get the chemicals I needed for the final laboratory exam. And they did actually, I think I mentioned before, they did actual laboratory exams for their final exams in both ordinary. And so at the advanced level, you had to find some strange chemicals and things sometimes. So he had taken me down and we got to be, our relationship got a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Got a little better again. But, uh. And there was also, we had a snake. He had had a snake in his place. It was a Gaboon viper, which is very poisonous. And he kept it in his lab and the students were supposed to feed it, go out and get mice or whatever, and they didn't do it. So it was a very hungry Gaboon viper. And he'd come in there. It wanted to eat you. But uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great pet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And we were always a little, I guess, another little thing. We were always a little. We were supposed to take flashlights and things, but sometimes I couldn't find mine, so I'd go through the. You had to watch out because they could be under a rock or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These vipers, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Got a little better again. But, uh. And there was also, we had a snake. He had had a snake in his place. It was a Gaboon viper, which is very poisonous. And he kept it in his lab and the students were supposed to feed it, go out and get mice or whatever, and they didn't do it. So it was a very hungry Gaboon viper. And he'd come in there. It wanted to eat you. But uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great pet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And we were always a little, I guess, another little thing. We were always a little. We were supposed to take flashlights and things, but sometimes I couldn't find mine, so I'd go through the. You had to watch out because they could be under a rock or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These vipers, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Gaboon vipers. But, um, so I used to remember, I used to kind of stomp if I. I didn't go over to the chemistry lab too much at night, but if I did, I'd kind of stomp a lot, wake them up and things. I didn't want to surprise any of them. And then when I got back, I was playing tennis one night. And now I have somewhat of an idea what flashbacks, because this wasn't a really terrifying experience in Ghana. But I kind of have an idea of what flashbacks are. I was playing tennis and I went to get some balls out in the, and all of a sudden I had a flashback of, you know, I'd better stomp and things because there may be snakes out here. And this was in Columbus, in the middle of Columbus, Ohio. So I can see how people who have been in, you know, attacked and things like that have terrible flashbacks and things. But that's all, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So keep stomping, keep stomping."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00069:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And we were always a little, I guess, another little thing. We were always a little. We were supposed to take flashlights and things, but sometimes I couldn't find mine, so I'd go through the. You had to watch out because they could be under a rock or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These vipers, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Gaboon vipers. But, um, so I used to remember, I used to kind of stomp if I. I didn't go over to the chemistry lab too much at night, but if I did, I'd kind of stomp a lot, wake them up and things. I didn't want to surprise any of them. And then when I got back, I was playing tennis one night. And now I have somewhat of an idea what flashbacks, because this wasn't a really terrifying experience in Ghana. But I kind of have an idea of what flashbacks are. I was playing tennis and I went to get some balls out in the, and all of a sudden I had a flashback of, you know, I'd better stomp and things because there may be snakes out here. And this was in Columbus, in the middle of Columbus, Ohio. So I can see how people who have been in, you know, attacked and things like that have terrible flashbacks and things. But that's all, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So keep stomping, keep stomping."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've told you all the little details. I've told you a lot of little detail, a lot of little trivia tonight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's good. It was a good interview, so thank you."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00786:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You may be up at the lake house in six years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you'll come interview me in about six years up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I love what I do, but I'm looking forward to moving up to the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can understand why. Thanks, Tommy."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00921:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think NASA's central impact is really it's helped define America and Americans as a sense that we lead on frontiers, and that the frontier remains part of our psyche. There is nobody else that does that. Yes, there are scientific frontiers and so on, but real physical frontiers matter. NASA is continuing that character of America which makes it unique. America would obviously exist if NASA went away tomorrow, but it wouldn't be our America I think. The idea that others are now leading on frontiers would change our view of ourselves, and I think much to the worse. So that's the single most important thing that we can do, is to say if you're an American we are there, we're at the very edge of the known moving into the unknown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, as it begins its next phase of its life of the agency and people are needed to accomplish the goals that have been set out, why would you encourage someone to begin a career with NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First of all, you'll have a lot of fun, and you'll have the most interesting intellectual and stimulating job, and you'll be part of the future of mankind, and that's worth a lot. You don't come and work for the government for the pay. You certainly don't come for all of the side benefits and the short hours. But in the end it's really that intellectual high that one gets for being on the edge of the unknown. That takes a special person, but there's a lot of them in America. I think that especially with the Vision for Space Exploration we have no shortage of people, the very finest the country has to offer, and the world for that matter, wanting to come and work for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, as we close out this afternoon's session, is there anything you'd like to add, or any other thoughts that have come to mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Again this has been the coolest job I ever had, and I hope I don't get fired, and continue to be able to make progress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we wish you the best of luck in the next years."}]}
+{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00004:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 83.72588162437481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was living in Forest Park, Georgia, just south of Atlanta."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you decide to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father had been a sergeant major in the Army, and was a Vietnam veteran, so from an early age, I knew that I would also go into the military. My dad was actually an Army veteran, and I was looking at what service that I was going to join myself, and you might think that I would have tended to join the Army, since he had been in the Army, but a story he told me actually sent me towards the Marines. He told me that when he enlisted, he had wanted to join the Marines, and he had a buddy program, he was signing up for the Marines with a friend of his, and that friend backed out, and when his friend backed out, my dad backed out also. He was too nervous to go into the Marines without his friend, and so he decided to go into the Army instead, and so for me, part of choosing the Marines was probably to honor his original desire to be a Marine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember your first days in the service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. My three months at Paris Island are certainly burned into my brain, I think pretty much every minute of those three months is right there, I can recall from memory very quickly, because it was all so very intense, and it was probably the most defining period of my life, though, in terms of the things that it taught me, and the characteristics that it gave me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did it feel like when you were going through that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00004:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 93.02875736041645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father had been a sergeant major in the Army, and was a Vietnam veteran, so from an early age, I knew that I would also go into the military. My dad was actually an Army veteran, and I was looking at what service that I was going to join myself, and you might think that I would have tended to join the Army, since he had been in the Army, but a story he told me actually sent me towards the Marines. He told me that when he enlisted, he had wanted to join the Marines, and he had a buddy program, he was signing up for the Marines with a friend of his, and that friend backed out, and when his friend backed out, my dad backed out also. He was too nervous to go into the Marines without his friend, and so he decided to go into the Army instead, and so for me, part of choosing the Marines was probably to honor his original desire to be a Marine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember your first days in the service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. My three months at Paris Island are certainly burned into my brain, I think pretty much every minute of those three months is right there, I can recall from memory very quickly, because it was all so very intense, and it was probably the most defining period of my life, though, in terms of the things that it taught me, and the characteristics that it gave me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did it feel like when you were going through that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was hard. It was very difficult. I had been kind of the nerdy or geeky high school kid. I was a little bit chubby. I wasn’t your stereotypical jock that was joining the Marines to be the macho Marine guy. For me, it was a challenge. It was something outside of my comfort zone, and so boot camp was very hard. Physically, it was difficult, and mentally, it was taxing, but I persevered, and it was very rewarding at the end of those three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember your instructors?"}]}
+{"block_id": "veterans-oral-histories-00004:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the GI Bill was probably one of the best things that came out of my military service, besides the character development that I received. The GI Bill was amazing, and it was amazing in part because Georgia had a scholarship program, funded by the Georgia lottery, that allowed me to actually go to school for free. I was able to capitalize on my GI Bill and utilize it to help with additional school-related expenses, like a place to live, a vehicle, you know, extra in dues, and things like that, that the Georgia lottery scholarship didn’t cover. If it had it not been for the GI Bill, this would definitely have been much harder, those years at college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you continue any of those close relationships and friendships that you had outside the military?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I kept in touch with some guys while I was finishing up school, MySpace and then Facebook were starting up, and so I was able to reach out and find some guys, but really, there was only one person that I kept in real contact with. That was my friend from Boston who had been in the six-man brawl with me. Him and I remained close for several years, was in his wedding, took some trips to Boston with him, and we kept a pretty close friendship. Eventually, we drifted apart a little bit, I think because of him continuing to live in the DC area and me having moved down to Atlanta, and him pursuing an occupation as a police officer, and me moving into civil service, I think eventually, we drifted apart a little bit. I still maintained some contact with him and some other guys via social media these days, but not much beyond that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you join a veterans’ organization?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’ve thought about it before, about the Marine Corps League in particular, but I’m married with three small boys of my own now, and I have enough going on with those guys these days that I haven’t really had much time to think about joining something for myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your services and experiences affect your life overall?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.147970787613886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we merged the NASA and Thiokol teams in Utah, both approached the redesign open-mindedly. We evaluated all design solutions, using analyses and testing, to select the best of all approaches. There was not necessarily always consensus, but we moved on as I had the final vote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people originally worked on the design team here at Marshall? Then you mentioned you’d taken some of your team out to Utah—how many people was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied with time, but the average would be on the order of 120 locally. We were using mostly the engineering subject matter experts in materials, design, analysis, and safety disciplines. We had an integrated, co-located team with few managers and extraordinarily talented engineers. When we merged the teams in Utah we had eight to ten people that established residence there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you stay in Utah before you came back to Alabama?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our team relocated there in late ’86, early ’87, and most returned to Huntsville after the DM [Development Motor]-8 test, which I believe was in August of ’87. I had planned to return to MSFC following test, but the MSFC Center Director decided that I should to be at KSC for prelaunch processing of the return to flight hardware. So I went from Utah to Kennedy and remained there until STS-26 was launched in 1988."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was morale like when you first arrived in Utah at the Thiokol plant?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 21.275523097348763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied with time, but the average would be on the order of 120 locally. We were using mostly the engineering subject matter experts in materials, design, analysis, and safety disciplines. We had an integrated, co-located team with few managers and extraordinarily talented engineers. When we merged the teams in Utah we had eight to ten people that established residence there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you stay in Utah before you came back to Alabama?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our team relocated there in late ’86, early ’87, and most returned to Huntsville after the DM [Development Motor]-8 test, which I believe was in August of ’87. I had planned to return to MSFC following test, but the MSFC Center Director decided that I should to be at KSC for prelaunch processing of the return to flight hardware. So I went from Utah to Kennedy and remained there until STS-26 was launched in 1988."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was morale like when you first arrived in Utah at the Thiokol plant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually very positive; there was no hostility or being protective, resentful, or anything of that nature one might expect under those circumstances. Their sole interest was initially finding the cause of the accident, finding the remedies to prevent it from happening in the future, and regaining their pride in producing the quality Shuttle motors. They were very positive, very cooperative, and we evolved into a good cohesive team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you tell us about the testing program once you had come up with this design and how you wanted to test it? Would you talk about the different tests that you conducted on the motors?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.96783127247691, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall exactly how many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you able to achieve so much so quickly, in such a short amount of time, in terms of testing and then requalifying the SRB for flight in a period of less than three years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were working quite intensely; many hours a day, six and seven days a week. We had a talented, dedicated team with focused leadership who did not have to get permission from many levels of management and organizations to implement designs, conduct tests, and perform analyses. This process allowed us to move quite rapidly in that environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any changes have to be made to the design you had decided upon after any of the tests that you conducted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No changes were made in the joint areas after we baselined the configuration, but we did have to tweak the design of a nozzle component following test DM-9. I understand that there has been some refinements in the case nozzle and igniter joints in the years since returning to flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s remarkable. Tell us about the media interest in the redesign effort out in Utah."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.853145858307677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were working quite intensely; many hours a day, six and seven days a week. We had a talented, dedicated team with focused leadership who did not have to get permission from many levels of management and organizations to implement designs, conduct tests, and perform analyses. This process allowed us to move quite rapidly in that environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any changes have to be made to the design you had decided upon after any of the tests that you conducted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No changes were made in the joint areas after we baselined the configuration, but we did have to tweak the design of a nozzle component following test DM-9. I understand that there has been some refinements in the case nozzle and igniter joints in the years since returning to flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s remarkable. Tell us about the media interest in the redesign effort out in Utah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The media was quite interested both at MSFC and in Utah. Our Marshall public affairs organization was quite accommodating in releasing information and arranging for rather frequent, periodic press conferences where I would inform the press on our progress, our problems, how our design was evolving, and would respond to any questions they might have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you had much experience working with the press before this event?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.836828731452975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No changes were made in the joint areas after we baselined the configuration, but we did have to tweak the design of a nozzle component following test DM-9. I understand that there has been some refinements in the case nozzle and igniter joints in the years since returning to flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s remarkable. Tell us about the media interest in the redesign effort out in Utah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The media was quite interested both at MSFC and in Utah. Our Marshall public affairs organization was quite accommodating in releasing information and arranging for rather frequent, periodic press conferences where I would inform the press on our progress, our problems, how our design was evolving, and would respond to any questions they might have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you had much experience working with the press before this event?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had some experience in dealing with the media but had to come up very quickly on the learning curve. When we were executing Spacelab and Skylab, I had some media interactive training where specialists came in and suggested to us what to do, what not to do, and how to behave. That training was very beneficial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the [William P.] Rogers Commission [also known as the Presidential Commission on the Space Shuttle Challenger Accident] affect the redesign effort, the analysis and the eventual outcome of what you were working on at that point?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 18.707587479392195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The media was quite interested both at MSFC and in Utah. Our Marshall public affairs organization was quite accommodating in releasing information and arranging for rather frequent, periodic press conferences where I would inform the press on our progress, our problems, how our design was evolving, and would respond to any questions they might have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you had much experience working with the press before this event?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had some experience in dealing with the media but had to come up very quickly on the learning curve. When we were executing Spacelab and Skylab, I had some media interactive training where specialists came in and suggested to us what to do, what not to do, and how to behave. That training was very beneficial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the [William P.] Rogers Commission [also known as the Presidential Commission on the Space Shuttle Challenger Accident] affect the redesign effort, the analysis and the eventual outcome of what you were working on at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Rogers Commission finished their work and released their report in June 1986, which completed their task. They were therefore not around to influence the redesign, but NASA stood up the National Research Council [NRC] panel comprised of recognized subject matter experts that reported directly to the Administrator. They reviewed our work but did not try to influence us one way or another on any particular design solution. Instead they would come into either at MSFC or Utah for our team to brief them on our design solutions, analysis, and test results.\\n\\n The only thing that they were really insistent upon was the joint heaters on the field joint O-rings. Of course they had their thoughts about other design aspects and objectively reviewed our solutions, analyses, and tests substantiating our decisions. I didn’t think the heaters were necessary based on our tests, but it was a way of making the overall joint performance more robust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it challenging to include the heaters in the SRM?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.219243801718761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Rogers Commission finished their work and released their report in June 1986, which completed their task. They were therefore not around to influence the redesign, but NASA stood up the National Research Council [NRC] panel comprised of recognized subject matter experts that reported directly to the Administrator. They reviewed our work but did not try to influence us one way or another on any particular design solution. Instead they would come into either at MSFC or Utah for our team to brief them on our design solutions, analysis, and test results.\\n\\n The only thing that they were really insistent upon was the joint heaters on the field joint O-rings. Of course they had their thoughts about other design aspects and objectively reviewed our solutions, analyses, and tests substantiating our decisions. I didn’t think the heaters were necessary based on our tests, but it was a way of making the overall joint performance more robust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it challenging to include the heaters in the SRM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Incorporating the joint heaters was a nuisance more than anything else. In fact the Constellation Program has removed the heaters on the Ares I first stage, which is the same motor but with one additional segment.\\n\\n There was another oversight group that was established by the Marshall Center to review our work, and that was an engineering group that was headed by Al [Allan] Norton, who was the former external tank chief engineer. His team was composed of a number of engineering managers including such recognized experts as Jim [James E.] Kingsbury from Marshall, Max [Maxime A.] Faget from Houston [JSC], and Horace [L.] Lamberth from KSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that to be challenging with so many cooks in the kitchen so to speak?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It distracted us a little bit, but it was probably productive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congress was also very interested in the redesign of the SRM. I think I saw that you had testified. Would you tell us about their oversight and the interest that they had?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.688048668576402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Incorporating the joint heaters was a nuisance more than anything else. In fact the Constellation Program has removed the heaters on the Ares I first stage, which is the same motor but with one additional segment.\\n\\n There was another oversight group that was established by the Marshall Center to review our work, and that was an engineering group that was headed by Al [Allan] Norton, who was the former external tank chief engineer. His team was composed of a number of engineering managers including such recognized experts as Jim [James E.] Kingsbury from Marshall, Max [Maxime A.] Faget from Houston [JSC], and Horace [L.] Lamberth from KSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that to be challenging with so many cooks in the kitchen so to speak?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It distracted us a little bit, but it was probably productive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congress was also very interested in the redesign of the SRM. I think I saw that you had testified. Would you tell us about their oversight and the interest that they had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were before congress and staff several times, giving them the results of our design work and test results. They in fact produced a voluminous report of three or four volumes, based on their staff work. We had staff members that would come occasionally to understand what we were doing. We gave them the same type of information as that given the NRC panel and others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they in any way influence the design or testing effort that you were working under?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.320054076196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It distracted us a little bit, but it was probably productive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congress was also very interested in the redesign of the SRM. I think I saw that you had testified. Would you tell us about their oversight and the interest that they had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were before congress and staff several times, giving them the results of our design work and test results. They in fact produced a voluminous report of three or four volumes, based on their staff work. We had staff members that would come occasionally to understand what we were doing. We gave them the same type of information as that given the NRC panel and others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they in any way influence the design or testing effort that you were working under?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were more interested in progress"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the astronauts? I know that there were some astronauts who were following the redesign effort."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.68894897355111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were before congress and staff several times, giving them the results of our design work and test results. They in fact produced a voluminous report of three or four volumes, based on their staff work. We had staff members that would come occasionally to understand what we were doing. We gave them the same type of information as that given the NRC panel and others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they in any way influence the design or testing effort that you were working under?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were more interested in progress"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the astronauts? I know that there were some astronauts who were following the redesign effort."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Astronaut Office assigned two crew members to participate with our team. The senior astronaut was Hoot [Robert L.] Gibson and the other was Steve [Stephen S.] Oswald and both stayed with us from the very start until we finished the design. There were others, like John [W.] Young, who attended our major reviews. The dedicated members didn’t reside with us, but they came as they felt necessary to participate in the design process, testing, test reviews, etc."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they pleased with the final design that you had come up with?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.209943303945677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were more interested in progress"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the astronauts? I know that there were some astronauts who were following the redesign effort."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Astronaut Office assigned two crew members to participate with our team. The senior astronaut was Hoot [Robert L.] Gibson and the other was Steve [Stephen S.] Oswald and both stayed with us from the very start until we finished the design. There were others, like John [W.] Young, who attended our major reviews. The dedicated members didn’t reside with us, but they came as they felt necessary to participate in the design process, testing, test reviews, etc."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they pleased with the final design that you had come up with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, all were in agreement with design and test results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mr. Mitchell had mentioned the Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel [ASAP] was also very interested in following the redesign effort. Can you talk about their efforts?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.899937004384086, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Astronaut Office assigned two crew members to participate with our team. The senior astronaut was Hoot [Robert L.] Gibson and the other was Steve [Stephen S.] Oswald and both stayed with us from the very start until we finished the design. There were others, like John [W.] Young, who attended our major reviews. The dedicated members didn’t reside with us, but they came as they felt necessary to participate in the design process, testing, test reviews, etc."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they pleased with the final design that you had come up with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, all were in agreement with design and test results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mr. Mitchell had mentioned the Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel [ASAP] was also very interested in following the redesign effort. Can you talk about their efforts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We briefed the ASAP giving them the same type of information that we gave our other oversight panels. I don’t recall them having any direct opposition to any of our design or test plan or results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It almost seems like there’s so many people overseeing the work that you were doing that you may have spent more time handling these groups than maybe doing the redesign and testing. Would that be an accurate assessment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.777707782648985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, all were in agreement with design and test results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mr. Mitchell had mentioned the Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel [ASAP] was also very interested in following the redesign effort. Can you talk about their efforts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We briefed the ASAP giving them the same type of information that we gave our other oversight panels. I don’t recall them having any direct opposition to any of our design or test plan or results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It almost seems like there’s so many people overseeing the work that you were doing that you may have spent more time handling these groups than maybe doing the redesign and testing. Would that be an accurate assessment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, even though it took quite a bit of planning, logistics, and briefings, they were actually quite supportive in their quest to be sure that we were considering all aspects that might have influence or led to the accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was the redesigned SRM finally qualified for flight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.75300864738776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We briefed the ASAP giving them the same type of information that we gave our other oversight panels. I don’t recall them having any direct opposition to any of our design or test plan or results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It almost seems like there’s so many people overseeing the work that you were doing that you may have spent more time handling these groups than maybe doing the redesign and testing. Would that be an accurate assessment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, even though it took quite a bit of planning, logistics, and briefings, they were actually quite supportive in their quest to be sure that we were considering all aspects that might have influence or led to the accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was the redesigned SRM finally qualified for flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The certification process begins with design and design reviews through development and qualification testing to the flight readiness review, where certification of flight worthiness is executed. We had qualification motor tests, other full and subscale testing, extensive analyses, and manufacturing process records to support the certification for flightworthiness process. That certification process culminated in the flight readiness review prior to STS-26 that flew September of ’88."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had given us a broad overview, but I thought it might be nice to have on the record the difference between the redesigned SRM and the SRM that was flown for the first 24 flights."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.503342941541952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, even though it took quite a bit of planning, logistics, and briefings, they were actually quite supportive in their quest to be sure that we were considering all aspects that might have influence or led to the accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was the redesigned SRM finally qualified for flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The certification process begins with design and design reviews through development and qualification testing to the flight readiness review, where certification of flight worthiness is executed. We had qualification motor tests, other full and subscale testing, extensive analyses, and manufacturing process records to support the certification for flightworthiness process. That certification process culminated in the flight readiness review prior to STS-26 that flew September of ’88."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had given us a broad overview, but I thought it might be nice to have on the record the difference between the redesigned SRM and the SRM that was flown for the first 24 flights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First let me reiterate that the SRM design team’s job was to understand the failure and determine the redesign and the testing necessary to assure that that did not happen again. Gerald [W.] Smith was the solid rocket booster project manager, and under him was Royce Mitchell who was the RSRM project manager. They had the task of going back and reviewing all of the failure modes and effects analysis, all the hazards analysis, and the pedigree of the production processes and hardware. There were some manufacturing process changes, management practices, and inspections and checkouts that were instituted as a result of their activity that was separate from ours.\\n\\n The major hardware configuration difference between the previous motor and post-Challenger motor designated the RSRM, were differences in the field joint design covering O-ring material, insulation interface design, metal capture feature, and heaters. We also made some design changes in the case nozzle and igniter joints. There were profile changes in the external insulation that protected the motor from ascent heating and reentry and splash-down loads as it goes back into atmosphere and water respectively. There were other minor change but those were not related to the Challenger accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty impressive efforts as you look back. Were there any new quality assurance or safety measures instituted during the redesign effort?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.918353950000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It started out to be quite a long time, on the order of four months; but after the first two or three it began coming down, and now I think it’s under of 30 days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn’t seem like it would take that long."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it does, but these are very large human space flight element that must be handled very deliberately with checkout and inspections performed as the assembly sequence progresses. The combination of the handling operations, inspections, and the checkout requirements lead to this processing timeline."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the redesigned SRM perform during the return to flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perfect. We didn’t have any problems in the return to flight motors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any instrumentation on the SRBs as they flew?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.242615500000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it does, but these are very large human space flight element that must be handled very deliberately with checkout and inspections performed as the assembly sequence progresses. The combination of the handling operations, inspections, and the checkout requirements lead to this processing timeline."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the redesigned SRM perform during the return to flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perfect. We didn’t have any problems in the return to flight motors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any instrumentation on the SRBs as they flew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some pressure and thermal instrumentation, but most of the solid rocket motors hardware performance information is obtained by inspecting the motors after they are retrieved from the ocean and towed back into Hanger AF and disassembled after the flight.."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had the return to flight crew followed the redesign effort very closely, or were they too busy?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.491795000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perfect. We didn’t have any problems in the return to flight motors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any instrumentation on the SRBs as they flew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some pressure and thermal instrumentation, but most of the solid rocket motors hardware performance information is obtained by inspecting the motors after they are retrieved from the ocean and towed back into Hanger AF and disassembled after the flight.."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had the return to flight crew followed the redesign effort very closely, or were they too busy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were mostly tied up in their training; but we talked to Fred [Frederick H.] Hauck and Dick [Richard O.] Covey from time to time"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand you remained at the Cape for the next flight of STS-27."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.65755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some pressure and thermal instrumentation, but most of the solid rocket motors hardware performance information is obtained by inspecting the motors after they are retrieved from the ocean and towed back into Hanger AF and disassembled after the flight.."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had the return to flight crew followed the redesign effort very closely, or were they too busy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were mostly tied up in their training; but we talked to Fred [Frederick H.] Hauck and Dick [Richard O.] Covey from time to time"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand you remained at the Cape for the next flight of STS-27."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I stayed for the two flights and then returned to MSFC. I think it was on STS-27 that the Shuttle came back with a large number of damaged thermal protection tiles. I was asked to form a team and determine the culprit. We determined that the damage was attributable to insulation material shedding off the SRB nose cap during ascent and impacting the very fragile tile. Following that assignment I retired from NASA in April of ’89 and joined Lockheed at KSC launching Shuttles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you about the ASRM, when you started working for Lockheed. Can you tell us what the advanced solid rocket motor was compared to the redesigned solid rocket motor?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is in fact the practice with smaller motors. That is what’s called a monolithic motor, where there is just one large cylinder filled with propellant. But these large motors are heavy and difficult to lift, handle, and transport. The most significant drawback is transporting the large motors if they are produced any appreciable distance from the launch site. The ASRM plant was constructed adjacent to the Tennessee Tombigbee Waterway that branches off the Tennessee River and makes its way through Mississippi and Alabama into the Mobile Bay. This permitted the ASRM to have larger [longer and slightly larger diameter] segments because they were going to be barged to KSC. So you see it would be impractical to produce large monolithic motors the size of the Shuttle motors and transport them to the launch site, and to construct launch processing facilities with sufficient height and crane capacity to accommodate such a long monolithic motor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about that. Was NASA interested in a solid rocket motor that could propel more because of the [International] Space Station? Was that part of the interest in a redesigned SRM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think the Shuttle at that time was not producing quite the originally advertised payload performance so they were looking for ways to increase performance. They had already reduced the mass of the original external tank to a lightweight tank configuration, and were looking at further reductions with a super lightweight tank by changing the material to aluminum lithium. This would produce on the order of 6,000 to 8,000 pounds whereas the ASRM could provide 12,000 pounds additional performance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why was the advanced solid rocket motor canceled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was mostly political. There was an administration change and different NASA Administrators since the ASRM inception. Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin became the new Administrator and did not embrace the need for the ASRM and there was quite a bit of political activity between various segments of the country on whether the ASRM was needed. The Utah contingent was dead set against it, and of course the southeastern states were supportive. It was finally canceled in 1994."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seems like such a shame for being so close."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think the Shuttle at that time was not producing quite the originally advertised payload performance so they were looking for ways to increase performance. They had already reduced the mass of the original external tank to a lightweight tank configuration, and were looking at further reductions with a super lightweight tank by changing the material to aluminum lithium. This would produce on the order of 6,000 to 8,000 pounds whereas the ASRM could provide 12,000 pounds additional performance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why was the advanced solid rocket motor canceled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was mostly political. There was an administration change and different NASA Administrators since the ASRM inception. Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin became the new Administrator and did not embrace the need for the ASRM and there was quite a bit of political activity between various segments of the country on whether the ASRM was needed. The Utah contingent was dead set against it, and of course the southeastern states were supportive. It was finally canceled in 1994."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seems like such a shame for being so close."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had an expenditure of over $1 billion at the time it was terminated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did want to go back to STS-26 and ask you what your thoughts were during the launch. Were you at the Launch Control Center at that time and could you tell us about that day?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was mostly political. There was an administration change and different NASA Administrators since the ASRM inception. Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin became the new Administrator and did not embrace the need for the ASRM and there was quite a bit of political activity between various segments of the country on whether the ASRM was needed. The Utah contingent was dead set against it, and of course the southeastern states were supportive. It was finally canceled in 1994."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seems like such a shame for being so close."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had an expenditure of over $1 billion at the time it was terminated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did want to go back to STS-26 and ask you what your thoughts were during the launch. Were you at the Launch Control Center at that time and could you tell us about that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very confident and excited, but a little bit apprehensive, because it was the first flight following Challenger. Several of us tried unsuccessfully to learn to hold our breath for two minutes [the SRB burn time in flight]. I was in the Launch Control Center with the NASA management team comprised mostly of Center Directors, Associate Administrators, and the Administrator. There was a high degree of confidence that we had corrected the Challenger accident problem; but still to this day, when CapCom [capsule communicator, JSC] gives the “Go” at throttle up [the point at which the Challenger accident occurred], it gets my attention. After SRB burnout and separation, there was great relief, satisfaction, and congratulations all around. I should point out that there has not been any hot gas reaching either the primary or secondary O-ring seal in the field joint on any test or flight since our redesign was incorporated post-Challenger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine [you’re proud of] being a part of that whole effort."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had an expenditure of over $1 billion at the time it was terminated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did want to go back to STS-26 and ask you what your thoughts were during the launch. Were you at the Launch Control Center at that time and could you tell us about that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very confident and excited, but a little bit apprehensive, because it was the first flight following Challenger. Several of us tried unsuccessfully to learn to hold our breath for two minutes [the SRB burn time in flight]. I was in the Launch Control Center with the NASA management team comprised mostly of Center Directors, Associate Administrators, and the Administrator. There was a high degree of confidence that we had corrected the Challenger accident problem; but still to this day, when CapCom [capsule communicator, JSC] gives the “Go” at throttle up [the point at which the Challenger accident occurred], it gets my attention. After SRB burnout and separation, there was great relief, satisfaction, and congratulations all around. I should point out that there has not been any hot gas reaching either the primary or secondary O-ring seal in the field joint on any test or flight since our redesign was incorporated post-Challenger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine [you’re proud of] being a part of that whole effort."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a great reward to have a part in recovering from such a devastating period in this nation’s human space flight endeavors. I was very fortunate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to ask Rebecca if she has any questions for you.\n\nI just have one. You were talking about your design team in Utah and moving toward final design and all the progress. Did you encounter setbacks where you thought maybe you weren’t going to be able to encounter that progress?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a great reward to have a part in recovering from such a devastating period in this nation’s human space flight endeavors. I was very fortunate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to ask Rebecca if she has any questions for you.\n\nI just have one. You were talking about your design team in Utah and moving toward final design and all the progress. Did you encounter setbacks where you thought maybe you weren’t going to be able to encounter that progress?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some disappointments but they were mostly related to schedule; we were trying to do things very rapidly to return to flight as soon as possible. But I don’t recall any great hurdles that we ran into that just “it doesn’t look like we’re going to be able to pull this off.” Early on, we took a motor of the Challenger configuration, attempted to trim away some of the insulation at the joint, and incorporate a different insulation seal configuration. When we finished manufacturing that design we looked at it and said, “We don’t want to do that, it’s not as safe as we’d like to see, and for sure we don’t want to lose another motor.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you explore using different vendors and manufacturers, or did you stay with the ones that had been chosen to do the original motor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed with the same suppliers because they were providing quality hardware and were not at fault in the accident. It was also more expedient to remain with them from a schedule perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did have a couple of other questions. Were there any new facilities built as you were working on the redesigned SRM?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:96", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some disappointments but they were mostly related to schedule; we were trying to do things very rapidly to return to flight as soon as possible. But I don’t recall any great hurdles that we ran into that just “it doesn’t look like we’re going to be able to pull this off.” Early on, we took a motor of the Challenger configuration, attempted to trim away some of the insulation at the joint, and incorporate a different insulation seal configuration. When we finished manufacturing that design we looked at it and said, “We don’t want to do that, it’s not as safe as we’d like to see, and for sure we don’t want to lose another motor.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you explore using different vendors and manufacturers, or did you stay with the ones that had been chosen to do the original motor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed with the same suppliers because they were providing quality hardware and were not at fault in the accident. It was also more expedient to remain with them from a schedule perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did have a couple of other questions. Were there any new facilities built as you were working on the redesigned SRM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only the new test stands were constructed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make any changes to the manufacturing process at all?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:98", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed with the same suppliers because they were providing quality hardware and were not at fault in the accident. It was also more expedient to remain with them from a schedule perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did have a couple of other questions. Were there any new facilities built as you were working on the redesigned SRM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only the new test stands were constructed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make any changes to the manufacturing process at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were changes made to accommodate the new joint design, but no fundamental changes other than improving the cleaning processes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think we have answered all the questions that I had come up with. Is there anything else that you think that we should know about the redesign effort?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00714:100", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only the new test stands were constructed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make any changes to the manufacturing process at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were changes made to accommodate the new joint design, but no fundamental changes other than improving the cleaning processes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think we have answered all the questions that I had come up with. Is there anything else that you think that we should know about the redesign effort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. You questions were very comprehensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we certainly thank you for coming in today. We very much appreciate it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.999987181336003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The big difference is almost everything done at Langley is either through the wind tunnel labs or structures labs or various things. Of course out here it was all aircraft. Your philosophy was use the airplane. It was an in-flight lab tool rather than there being laboratory type tests.\\n\\n Of course you had all the additional problems associated with it, because it had to be done safely, it had to go through all kinds of inspections to be sure it was flightworthy and that the flight program was safe. In the lab you could pretty much design a specimen and test it pretty much any way you wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You found the actual flight test program to be more of your liking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think one of the reasons I stayed at Edwards was because I liked to be associated more with aircraft than satellites and capsules."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned when you were at Purdue you were actually building a plane for someone. Did you also fly? Were you a pilot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m a private pilot. I got my pilot’s license in 1945. Now the design I did for the flight instructor, he actually built the airplane and did high speed taxi tests and liftoffs. Unfortunately, he flew a charter, and I think they ran into some kind of storm and crashed, so the airplane was never flown. But as I say, he did build it and taxi it and took off a short distance. Yes, I was always hoping he would—at that time in Cleveland they had the Goodyear Trophy Race, the air races. They had a light plane category, and he wanted to fly on that. That’s what I designed, an airplane to fly in that light plane category, limited to 65 horsepower, gross weight couldn’t be more than 600 pounds, restrictions like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a project for a grad student."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 29.99998575704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think one of the reasons I stayed at Edwards was because I liked to be associated more with aircraft than satellites and capsules."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned when you were at Purdue you were actually building a plane for someone. Did you also fly? Were you a pilot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m a private pilot. I got my pilot’s license in 1945. Now the design I did for the flight instructor, he actually built the airplane and did high speed taxi tests and liftoffs. Unfortunately, he flew a charter, and I think they ran into some kind of storm and crashed, so the airplane was never flown. But as I say, he did build it and taxi it and took off a short distance. Yes, I was always hoping he would—at that time in Cleveland they had the Goodyear Trophy Race, the air races. They had a light plane category, and he wanted to fly on that. That’s what I designed, an airplane to fly in that light plane category, limited to 65 horsepower, gross weight couldn’t be more than 600 pounds, restrictions like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a project for a grad student."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I was an instructor at the time. I was teaching structural analysis and aircraft vibrations at Purdue. It was in line with what I was doing. At that time I taught an elective class on wood construction, structural design of wood aircraft. Wood aircraft was the original composites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s true. Are you from that part of the country, from the Indiana area?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 27.77776195226667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m a private pilot. I got my pilot’s license in 1945. Now the design I did for the flight instructor, he actually built the airplane and did high speed taxi tests and liftoffs. Unfortunately, he flew a charter, and I think they ran into some kind of storm and crashed, so the airplane was never flown. But as I say, he did build it and taxi it and took off a short distance. Yes, I was always hoping he would—at that time in Cleveland they had the Goodyear Trophy Race, the air races. They had a light plane category, and he wanted to fly on that. That’s what I designed, an airplane to fly in that light plane category, limited to 65 horsepower, gross weight couldn’t be more than 600 pounds, restrictions like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a project for a grad student."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I was an instructor at the time. I was teaching structural analysis and aircraft vibrations at Purdue. It was in line with what I was doing. At that time I taught an elective class on wood construction, structural design of wood aircraft. Wood aircraft was the original composites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s true. Are you from that part of the country, from the Indiana area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born and raised in Missouri, just outside of Kansas City. When I got in the Navy they sent me to [University of] Notre Dame [South Bend, Indiana] for training, and so when the war was over I went to Purdue for graduate work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a pretty good combination."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 28.64195772474074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I was an instructor at the time. I was teaching structural analysis and aircraft vibrations at Purdue. It was in line with what I was doing. At that time I taught an elective class on wood construction, structural design of wood aircraft. Wood aircraft was the original composites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s true. Are you from that part of the country, from the Indiana area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born and raised in Missouri, just outside of Kansas City. When I got in the Navy they sent me to [University of] Notre Dame [South Bend, Indiana] for training, and so when the war was over I went to Purdue for graduate work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a pretty good combination."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there weren’t any jobs for graduate engineers in 1946, because the companies were changing over from trying to retool and redesign for commercial rather than military. In the transition period there was a few of the people that I graduated with that did get jobs in aircraft. But that was the semester before I got out. When I got out, I didn’t even get a reply back. I think I sent out 10 or 12 resumes and applications, and didn’t even get a postcard back that they received them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You feel like the NACA at that time when you went down to Langley that you felt it was a good learning experience? Did you learn a lot from the people that were there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.15773080526749, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born and raised in Missouri, just outside of Kansas City. When I got in the Navy they sent me to [University of] Notre Dame [South Bend, Indiana] for training, and so when the war was over I went to Purdue for graduate work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a pretty good combination."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there weren’t any jobs for graduate engineers in 1946, because the companies were changing over from trying to retool and redesign for commercial rather than military. In the transition period there was a few of the people that I graduated with that did get jobs in aircraft. But that was the semester before I got out. When I got out, I didn’t even get a reply back. I think I sent out 10 or 12 resumes and applications, and didn’t even get a postcard back that they received them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You feel like the NACA at that time when you went down to Langley that you felt it was a good learning experience? Did you learn a lot from the people that were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I think I was very fortunate to be able to work with people like John Houbolt and a few of the other people there, John [M.] Hedgepeth and Bernie [Bernard] Budiansky and [John] Lyell Sanders and Manny [Manuel] Stein. I worked with them for quite a bit, I guess about five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like it was a nice exchange of ideas and hands-on learning."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 27.95303422807499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there weren’t any jobs for graduate engineers in 1946, because the companies were changing over from trying to retool and redesign for commercial rather than military. In the transition period there was a few of the people that I graduated with that did get jobs in aircraft. But that was the semester before I got out. When I got out, I didn’t even get a reply back. I think I sent out 10 or 12 resumes and applications, and didn’t even get a postcard back that they received them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You feel like the NACA at that time when you went down to Langley that you felt it was a good learning experience? Did you learn a lot from the people that were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I think I was very fortunate to be able to work with people like John Houbolt and a few of the other people there, John [M.] Hedgepeth and Bernie [Bernard] Budiansky and [John] Lyell Sanders and Manny [Manuel] Stein. I worked with them for quite a bit, I guess about five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like it was a nice exchange of ideas and hands-on learning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had both. We did theoretical analysis and then we also designed specimens and put them in the laboratory and tested them. We had to learn to design stuff and learn to set up test programs, get the equipment to do the programs. It was a real good background experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even in budgetary lessons, right? You didn’t have anything when you walked in the door, and learned to do with nothing."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.5603326140451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the head of the computer department came over one day and wanted to know if he could use him for two or three days. They had a problem with a computer. They couldn’t get the data. So I called him and asked him. He said, “I’ll check into it.” He said, “Let me get back to you in an hour or so.”\\n\\n About an hour later, he comes back and he says, “You can forget about it.”\\n\\n I said, “What?”\\n\\n He said, “Oh, I took care of it.” They’d been working on it for three days. He did it in his lunch hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He became the wonder boy, didn’t he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He was a genius on that. I had a couple of guys that were. They could get in the machine, get their data off the airplane flight, and have it worked up before the technical people, the computer data people, had gotten their setup to run them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you can maybe share with us when you were first here and how the technology changed. You mentioned the computers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The X-15 Program, all the data was recorded on a galvanometer film recorder drum. They did telemeter some data, which had primarily to do with the flight controls, like airspeed, altitude. Then those films had to be hand-read, and they had a machine that you run the film through, and cursors that you could take the measurements with off of the little traces. Of course later on it all went digital, and you could run it through the computer, and the computer would print out the final results with all the calibrations and everything else already in it, instead of having to read the film and put it into the process and convert it to engineering units and supply the calibrations and everything separate.\\n\\n Then of course the flight data packages became manageable, like on the X-15, they had an instrument bay that was so big by so big by so big and full of vacuum tube type stuff that was not that reliable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to assume it added weight to the plane as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.04894117868023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Then we transitioned to the Lifting Body Program, which was an early look at space return ships. Langley had their ideas, and Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California] had their concept of what the return should be, and Houston had their ideas, and the Air Force had their ideas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All were good ideas, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were pushing for the Lifting Body concept, and Houston decided to go with the Shuttle concept. The Shuttle proved very successful. I don’t know whether the other concepts would have worked any better. But there were a lot of arguments going on technically about advantages and disadvantages of different shapes. We flew three different shapes out at Edwards. We flew the shape that was being pushed by Langley, and we flew the shape that was being pushed by Ames, and the shape that the Air Force wanted to work with. It was rocket-powered and dropped off the [Boeing] B-52 [Stratofortress], and the pilots flew them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a sight to see I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was an interesting program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the challenges that you worked through as part of what you were doing at that time with the Lifting Body?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.991984725926272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t discover the wrinkles, but I helped find the solution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much time does that involve? Looking back on it now, the problem was discovered, and then the problem was resolved. But was it months, weeks? How soon were you able to resolve these issues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the issue of what was causing it and what the fix would be didn’t take all that long. But to actually do it on the airplane, make the corrections on the airplane, the first thing you had to do was put in more expansion slots. That’s difficult to do. Inconel X [alloy] is very difficult to work with to start with. Then without tearing the whole wing apart, how to get in there and increase the expansion. Then of course the buckles in the skin or wrinkles in the skin had to be straightened out. That had to be done. So the actual physical work to do it took weeks. But to discover what caused it and how to fix it was relatively simple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If I understand correctly, there were three X-15 vehicles. So each time you made a modification, was it made on each one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked closely with the aircraft manufacturer. Were you working close with their people?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.2133163621403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the issue of what was causing it and what the fix would be didn’t take all that long. But to actually do it on the airplane, make the corrections on the airplane, the first thing you had to do was put in more expansion slots. That’s difficult to do. Inconel X [alloy] is very difficult to work with to start with. Then without tearing the whole wing apart, how to get in there and increase the expansion. Then of course the buckles in the skin or wrinkles in the skin had to be straightened out. That had to be done. So the actual physical work to do it took weeks. But to discover what caused it and how to fix it was relatively simple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If I understand correctly, there were three X-15 vehicles. So each time you made a modification, was it made on each one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked closely with the aircraft manufacturer. Were you working close with their people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. They had people on site all the time, and they had a shuttle airplane that went every day back and forth to Inglewood [California]. We made a lot of trips down there, and people came up. It was a good working relationship between the company, and then of course the Air Force was supporting it, and they had people in there, and they had their own pilots involved in the program. It was a pretty well-run joint program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a good thing there was a lot of communication and teamwork with that many people involved."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 23.57035151348922, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked closely with the aircraft manufacturer. Were you working close with their people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. They had people on site all the time, and they had a shuttle airplane that went every day back and forth to Inglewood [California]. We made a lot of trips down there, and people came up. It was a good working relationship between the company, and then of course the Air Force was supporting it, and they had people in there, and they had their own pilots involved in the program. It was a pretty well-run joint program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a good thing there was a lot of communication and teamwork with that many people involved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That many agencies. The people were no problem. The people who were working on that program, everybody was working for the same goal. It worked. In all phases of the program there was joint effort between the company and the Air Force and NASA. Well, the Navy was involved also. In fact one of the first pilots of it was Navy—the first three pilots, one was Navy, one was Air Force, one was NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the program, a couple of the planes were lost in crashes. What were some of the lessons or some of the information you were able to obtain from those incidents?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.867781608732237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was involved somewhat with the Lifting Body Program. Then I got involved with the [North American] B-70 [Valkyrie] program and I worked up a program with the contractor to put little canards on the front of the airplane that we could change the frequency of, and do in-flight vibration testing, because Rockwell had the capabilities of doing structural analysis to predict the vibration characteristics. Then of course one of the things we were interested in was did the aerodynamics affect the aircraft structural vibrations, because all the vibration tests and stuff that they do on an airplane is done on the ground. That was part of the thing with the program. I worked primarily on the airplane part of it and the flight testing, and John [H.] Wykes at [North American] Rockwell did the analysis based on the design. Then he and I presented a paper at AGARD [Advisory Group for Aerospace Research and Development] in France on the results of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you have to present somewhere, that’s a good place to present, in France."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a good little program. As a result of what we did there, the [Rockwell] B-1 [Lancer (Bomber)] came out with those little canards on the front. That was for load alleviation in the turbulence on low [altitude] flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite an accomplishment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It gave the pilots a better ride, if nothing else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure they appreciated that. Then you also had mentioned something during the Gemini Program. Were you involved with some of the checking out the parachutes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.741979565258042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a good little program. As a result of what we did there, the [Rockwell] B-1 [Lancer (Bomber)] came out with those little canards on the front. That was for load alleviation in the turbulence on low [altitude] flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite an accomplishment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It gave the pilots a better ride, if nothing else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure they appreciated that. Then you also had mentioned something during the Gemini Program. Were you involved with some of the checking out the parachutes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Gemini Program is when they were first thinking about altering things to water landing. We built a little test airplane, a glider with a Parawing, which the hang gliders have been using ever since. But then some group at Johnson Space Center wanted to take that a little further, so they got Rockwell to build a similar device. We used metal struts for the structure. They don’t fold too good, so the concept they had Rockwell working on, I think maybe they worked with Goodyear, to have inflatable booms.\\n\\n They built at least one model. It was a full-size, we had a weight on it. It was a Gemini capsule thing. They did drop that, made some tests, then it went away. I’m not sure what the real reason for dropping it. But we proved that you could fly it like a glider, and flare and land with it.\\n\\n For some reason the concept went away, and of course it wasn’t even considered for Apollo. I think packaging may have been the main reason, bulk and packaging to get the inflatable struts and then the gas source to pressurize it. Because they did the tests at Edwards, we were in on that to a certain extent but we never followed up on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also mentioned the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle. Did you have some involvement in that project as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.713310628064491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It gave the pilots a better ride, if nothing else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure they appreciated that. Then you also had mentioned something during the Gemini Program. Were you involved with some of the checking out the parachutes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Gemini Program is when they were first thinking about altering things to water landing. We built a little test airplane, a glider with a Parawing, which the hang gliders have been using ever since. But then some group at Johnson Space Center wanted to take that a little further, so they got Rockwell to build a similar device. We used metal struts for the structure. They don’t fold too good, so the concept they had Rockwell working on, I think maybe they worked with Goodyear, to have inflatable booms.\\n\\n They built at least one model. It was a full-size, we had a weight on it. It was a Gemini capsule thing. They did drop that, made some tests, then it went away. I’m not sure what the real reason for dropping it. But we proved that you could fly it like a glider, and flare and land with it.\\n\\n For some reason the concept went away, and of course it wasn’t even considered for Apollo. I think packaging may have been the main reason, bulk and packaging to get the inflatable struts and then the gas source to pressurize it. Because they did the tests at Edwards, we were in on that to a certain extent but we never followed up on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also mentioned the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle. Did you have some involvement in that project as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "More as consulting and some of the structural design, but in the concept and the actual test program I was not involved with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you watch it fly?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.7925673645161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Gemini Program is when they were first thinking about altering things to water landing. We built a little test airplane, a glider with a Parawing, which the hang gliders have been using ever since. But then some group at Johnson Space Center wanted to take that a little further, so they got Rockwell to build a similar device. We used metal struts for the structure. They don’t fold too good, so the concept they had Rockwell working on, I think maybe they worked with Goodyear, to have inflatable booms.\\n\\n They built at least one model. It was a full-size, we had a weight on it. It was a Gemini capsule thing. They did drop that, made some tests, then it went away. I’m not sure what the real reason for dropping it. But we proved that you could fly it like a glider, and flare and land with it.\\n\\n For some reason the concept went away, and of course it wasn’t even considered for Apollo. I think packaging may have been the main reason, bulk and packaging to get the inflatable struts and then the gas source to pressurize it. Because they did the tests at Edwards, we were in on that to a certain extent but we never followed up on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also mentioned the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle. Did you have some involvement in that project as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "More as consulting and some of the structural design, but in the concept and the actual test program I was not involved with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you watch it fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your thoughts about how that worked?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.991741516129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More as consulting and some of the structural design, but in the concept and the actual test program I was not involved with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you watch it fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your thoughts about how that worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time NASA was pretty fairly small at Edwards, pretty small, and kind of a big family. Any time a project like that did anything, everybody had to go out and watch it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Structurally what were you thinking when you watched that apparatus get off the ground?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.324157240143334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your thoughts about how that worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time NASA was pretty fairly small at Edwards, pretty small, and kind of a big family. Any time a project like that did anything, everybody had to go out and watch it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Structurally what were you thinking when you watched that apparatus get off the ground?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were concerned at the time not with the lunar lander but with the concept. Could it be used as a trainer? We weren’t concerned so much with things like weight that you’d have to do to package the whole thing and get it to the Moon. But the whole idea was could you simulate with the engine thrust the difference in gravity so that the pilot would only be working with the lesser gravity. We weren’t so much concerned with the design but as a test bed. It wasn’t really anything more than just mostly common sense. Don’t make it any heavier than you have to kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you with NASA here at Edwards?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.693508044603703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time NASA was pretty fairly small at Edwards, pretty small, and kind of a big family. Any time a project like that did anything, everybody had to go out and watch it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Structurally what were you thinking when you watched that apparatus get off the ground?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were concerned at the time not with the lunar lander but with the concept. Could it be used as a trainer? We weren’t concerned so much with things like weight that you’d have to do to package the whole thing and get it to the Moon. But the whole idea was could you simulate with the engine thrust the difference in gravity so that the pilot would only be working with the lesser gravity. We weren’t so much concerned with the design but as a test bed. It wasn’t really anything more than just mostly common sense. Don’t make it any heavier than you have to kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you with NASA here at Edwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was out here about 21 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you retired in what year?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.103897827337448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were concerned at the time not with the lunar lander but with the concept. Could it be used as a trainer? We weren’t concerned so much with things like weight that you’d have to do to package the whole thing and get it to the Moon. But the whole idea was could you simulate with the engine thrust the difference in gravity so that the pilot would only be working with the lesser gravity. We weren’t so much concerned with the design but as a test bed. It wasn’t really anything more than just mostly common sense. Don’t make it any heavier than you have to kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you with NASA here at Edwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was out here about 21 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you retired in what year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In 1980."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right at the beginning of the Shuttle Program. Were you here for the Approach and Landing Tests [Program (ALT)]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.670997585930499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was out here about 21 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you retired in what year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In 1980."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right at the beginning of the Shuttle Program. Were you here for the Approach and Landing Tests [Program (ALT)]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working with that program as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.189997317700554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In 1980."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right at the beginning of the Shuttle Program. Were you here for the Approach and Landing Tests [Program (ALT)]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working with that program as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was on the team to design primarily the pilot escape system out of the [modified Boeing] 747 [Shuttle Carrier Aircraft]. We were involved of course. But the primary modifications of the 747 was all done at Boeing. Because our pilots were going to be the ones to fly the 747, we got involved in coming up with an escape system, in case they had problems with the 747. It isn’t designed to get out of very easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe one of the pilots was explaining it, but I’m curious from your point of view, when you were working on it, how the system evolved. Could you share with us how you and your team came up with that escape system?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.87777479744506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working with that program as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was on the team to design primarily the pilot escape system out of the [modified Boeing] 747 [Shuttle Carrier Aircraft]. We were involved of course. But the primary modifications of the 747 was all done at Boeing. Because our pilots were going to be the ones to fly the 747, we got involved in coming up with an escape system, in case they had problems with the 747. It isn’t designed to get out of very easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe one of the pilots was explaining it, but I’m curious from your point of view, when you were working on it, how the system evolved. Could you share with us how you and your team came up with that escape system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was basically a chute coming from the cockpit out to the bottom of the airplane that the pilot could drop into and come out the bottom, instead of being in danger of being hit by any of the other structure. An ejection seat would have been out of the question because it puts you right into the Shuttle, if it was still attached. So they had to come up with an alternate system. The general thinking I think at the time was that any emergency wouldn’t be a sudden emergency, it would be something that would mean that the airplane was not returnable, and the pilots would have time to make a quick exit. It was working with the chute. It wasn’t supposed to be a straight drop, and you couldn’t just put it right at the bottom, it was working around the landing gear and various other parts of the structure. That was primarily our involvement at Edwards with the program.\\n\\n Our pilots were very much involved with the program, because they were worried about the change in the handling qualities and the stability of the airplane. Some of our people that worked with the pilots on handling qualities were involved. As far as the aerodynamics and the structures and that part of it, that was all Boeing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you pretty comfortable with the design of the mate? Although like you mentioned it was Boeing. But as a structures person, did you feel like the combination was going to work as well as it did?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.691049104862905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The escape system as far as I know was never used. So that means it was a good system. We were just on the fringes of the actual structural modification. That was pretty much handled by Johnson. We were involved of course with the initial flights when they launched it off the back, mainly because our pilots were flying the airplane, and we were responsible for the landing.\\n\\n We didn’t get involved directly with the Shuttle Program that much. We had the High Temperature Structures Lab out at Edwards. We did do some testing. I wasn’t involved in that, but they did do some testing with some different components. At that time I think Edwards was the only one, I think it still is the only one that has High Temperature Structures Lab capabilities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were there you moved up the management levels, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I retired, I was Engineering Division Chief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of responsibility, with all those engineers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had primarily airplane dynamics, flight control, and handling qualities in our division. We worked with that aspect of the thing. A couple of people that worked in my division worked with the early flights of the Shuttle. It indicated some pilot-induced oscillation problems with the control system, so Edwards was running some tests with our digital flight control airplane, and a couple of our pilots and a couple of my engineers worked on that program. They were able to help the Shuttle group come up with flight control system changes. But other than that, we weren’t all that much involved with the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What other airplanes were you working on close to the end of your career there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.212276783181004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I retired, I was Engineering Division Chief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of responsibility, with all those engineers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had primarily airplane dynamics, flight control, and handling qualities in our division. We worked with that aspect of the thing. A couple of people that worked in my division worked with the early flights of the Shuttle. It indicated some pilot-induced oscillation problems with the control system, so Edwards was running some tests with our digital flight control airplane, and a couple of our pilots and a couple of my engineers worked on that program. They were able to help the Shuttle group come up with flight control system changes. But other than that, we weren’t all that much involved with the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What other airplanes were you working on close to the end of your career there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did some work on the structural dynamics and vibration of the [Lockheed] SR-71 [Blackbird]. We did a series of lab tests, vibration tests. I was involved in that. Lockheed, one of their engineers there did the structural analysis for the vibration stuff, and he and I presented a paper on that at one of the conferences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you like the SR-71? Did you find that plane to be an interesting plane to work on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.902529759090005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had primarily airplane dynamics, flight control, and handling qualities in our division. We worked with that aspect of the thing. A couple of people that worked in my division worked with the early flights of the Shuttle. It indicated some pilot-induced oscillation problems with the control system, so Edwards was running some tests with our digital flight control airplane, and a couple of our pilots and a couple of my engineers worked on that program. They were able to help the Shuttle group come up with flight control system changes. But other than that, we weren’t all that much involved with the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What other airplanes were you working on close to the end of your career there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did some work on the structural dynamics and vibration of the [Lockheed] SR-71 [Blackbird]. We did a series of lab tests, vibration tests. I was involved in that. Lockheed, one of their engineers there did the structural analysis for the vibration stuff, and he and I presented a paper on that at one of the conferences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you like the SR-71? Did you find that plane to be an interesting plane to work on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an interesting plane all around. To work on it wasn’t all that much fun because it leaked fuel everywhere. You had to be very careful. When we were doing the vibration tests in the lab, you had to be very careful where you were during the test because of the dripping fuel. But yes, it’s an interesting airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the last plane that you worked on, the SR-71? Or were there others?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.669477510100005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did some work on the structural dynamics and vibration of the [Lockheed] SR-71 [Blackbird]. We did a series of lab tests, vibration tests. I was involved in that. Lockheed, one of their engineers there did the structural analysis for the vibration stuff, and he and I presented a paper on that at one of the conferences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you like the SR-71? Did you find that plane to be an interesting plane to work on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an interesting plane all around. To work on it wasn’t all that much fun because it leaked fuel everywhere. You had to be very careful. When we were doing the vibration tests in the lab, you had to be very careful where you were during the test because of the dripping fuel. But yes, it’s an interesting airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the last plane that you worked on, the SR-71? Or were there others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By that time I was pretty much into administrative work, because we had to work with budgets and we had to work with assignments, and we had project support. We had several projects going, and I’d be sure it had proper people assigned to the projects, the different phases of the program. That was pretty much the way things were going. The last program I had anything to do with was the high speed drone program [Rockwell RPRV-870 HiMAT (Highly Maneuverable Aircraft Technology)]. Not so much directly, but my people were working on the program. It was an interesting concept; it’s different from the drones they do now because it was designed to fly from the ground cockpit, like the pilot was in the airplane. I left about the time they started flying that, so I’m not sure exactly what all went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If it’s okay, I’m going to ask Sandra if she’s got any other questions that she wanted to ask you before we close today.\n\nI was just thinking about the different airplanes you worked on, and being a pilot, would you have ever wanted to do some of that test-flying like the pilots that you worked with?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.632752789000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an interesting plane all around. To work on it wasn’t all that much fun because it leaked fuel everywhere. You had to be very careful. When we were doing the vibration tests in the lab, you had to be very careful where you were during the test because of the dripping fuel. But yes, it’s an interesting airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the last plane that you worked on, the SR-71? Or were there others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By that time I was pretty much into administrative work, because we had to work with budgets and we had to work with assignments, and we had project support. We had several projects going, and I’d be sure it had proper people assigned to the projects, the different phases of the program. That was pretty much the way things were going. The last program I had anything to do with was the high speed drone program [Rockwell RPRV-870 HiMAT (Highly Maneuverable Aircraft Technology)]. Not so much directly, but my people were working on the program. It was an interesting concept; it’s different from the drones they do now because it was designed to fly from the ground cockpit, like the pilot was in the airplane. I left about the time they started flying that, so I’m not sure exactly what all went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If it’s okay, I’m going to ask Sandra if she’s got any other questions that she wanted to ask you before we close today.\n\nI was just thinking about the different airplanes you worked on, and being a pilot, would you have ever wanted to do some of that test-flying like the pilots that you worked with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The answer is dual. Yes, but I knew I didn’t have the skill level. You watch these pilots. I never flew with them in a test program, but I flew with them in other airplanes. These guys are so precise and reflexes are so good. I never felt like I would like to really fly the test programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What airplanes did you get to fly with the test pilots?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.258614210000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By that time I was pretty much into administrative work, because we had to work with budgets and we had to work with assignments, and we had project support. We had several projects going, and I’d be sure it had proper people assigned to the projects, the different phases of the program. That was pretty much the way things were going. The last program I had anything to do with was the high speed drone program [Rockwell RPRV-870 HiMAT (Highly Maneuverable Aircraft Technology)]. Not so much directly, but my people were working on the program. It was an interesting concept; it’s different from the drones they do now because it was designed to fly from the ground cockpit, like the pilot was in the airplane. I left about the time they started flying that, so I’m not sure exactly what all went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If it’s okay, I’m going to ask Sandra if she’s got any other questions that she wanted to ask you before we close today.\n\nI was just thinking about the different airplanes you worked on, and being a pilot, would you have ever wanted to do some of that test-flying like the pilots that you worked with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The answer is dual. Yes, but I knew I didn’t have the skill level. You watch these pilots. I never flew with them in a test program, but I flew with them in other airplanes. These guys are so precise and reflexes are so good. I never felt like I would like to really fly the test programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What airplanes did you get to fly with the test pilots?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used to fly the Gooney Bird [Douglas C-47 Skytrain], and we had the Aero Commander [680F] most of the time. Sometimes they’d let me fly the Aero Commander. But that was about the size of it. I knew their skill levels and their dedication was 100 percent. I didn’t have that much time. I had too many other things to do. I enjoyed working with them, but I never really had the desire, mainly because I knew I couldn’t do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we’ve had other people who described it as they were natural pilots."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:102", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.065126900000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The answer is dual. Yes, but I knew I didn’t have the skill level. You watch these pilots. I never flew with them in a test program, but I flew with them in other airplanes. These guys are so precise and reflexes are so good. I never felt like I would like to really fly the test programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What airplanes did you get to fly with the test pilots?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used to fly the Gooney Bird [Douglas C-47 Skytrain], and we had the Aero Commander [680F] most of the time. Sometimes they’d let me fly the Aero Commander. But that was about the size of it. I knew their skill levels and their dedication was 100 percent. I didn’t have that much time. I had too many other things to do. I enjoyed working with them, but I never really had the desire, mainly because I knew I couldn’t do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we’ve had other people who described it as they were natural pilots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Some of them, they were so far ahead of the airplane, it was unbelievable. I don’t know how they could do it. But that’s what they did. I think we had some of the best pilots in the world out there at Edwards at different times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your favorite project that you worked on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:104", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 17.850141, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used to fly the Gooney Bird [Douglas C-47 Skytrain], and we had the Aero Commander [680F] most of the time. Sometimes they’d let me fly the Aero Commander. But that was about the size of it. I knew their skill levels and their dedication was 100 percent. I didn’t have that much time. I had too many other things to do. I enjoyed working with them, but I never really had the desire, mainly because I knew I couldn’t do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we’ve had other people who described it as they were natural pilots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Some of them, they were so far ahead of the airplane, it was unbelievable. I don’t know how they could do it. But that’s what they did. I think we had some of the best pilots in the world out there at Edwards at different times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your favorite project that you worked on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would probably have to say the X-15, because that was a fairly long program, it lasted like nine years. It had a lot of challenges, because nobody had ever been there before. When we started flying the Lifting Bodies, we already knew that the characteristics of the approach and landing was very similar to the X-15. Then the Shuttle came along, it’s about the same L/D [lift to drag ratio] as that. Those programs, we already had the background, so it wasn’t quite the same as the X-15 Program where everything was new. There were a lot of new issues and new things.\\n\\n I enjoyed the B-70 program too, because it had some interesting aspects. We had structural problems with the landing gear on that. Then the in-flight vibration program was interesting. But I was getting more and more involved in the supervision and administration and budget cycles by that time, that the technical aspects and the details were lost."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you can remember, or anything else that you’d like to share with us, that part of your career?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:106", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.83349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Some of them, they were so far ahead of the airplane, it was unbelievable. I don’t know how they could do it. But that’s what they did. I think we had some of the best pilots in the world out there at Edwards at different times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your favorite project that you worked on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would probably have to say the X-15, because that was a fairly long program, it lasted like nine years. It had a lot of challenges, because nobody had ever been there before. When we started flying the Lifting Bodies, we already knew that the characteristics of the approach and landing was very similar to the X-15. Then the Shuttle came along, it’s about the same L/D [lift to drag ratio] as that. Those programs, we already had the background, so it wasn’t quite the same as the X-15 Program where everything was new. There were a lot of new issues and new things.\\n\\n I enjoyed the B-70 program too, because it had some interesting aspects. We had structural problems with the landing gear on that. Then the in-flight vibration program was interesting. But I was getting more and more involved in the supervision and administration and budget cycles by that time, that the technical aspects and the details were lost."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you can remember, or anything else that you’d like to share with us, that part of your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could mention a few other things. When I first went to work at Langley, I was surprised that personnel called me right after I got there, wanted to know if I would teach some night school classes for the University of Virginia [Charlottesville] graduate extension. I did that for 11 years. I taught advanced math. Then I worked on my Ph.D. at the same time, went to summer school at Virginia Tech [Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, Blacksburg] and got my Ph.D. from that program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did some of the Langley employees take those classes from you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:108", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.9261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would probably have to say the X-15, because that was a fairly long program, it lasted like nine years. It had a lot of challenges, because nobody had ever been there before. When we started flying the Lifting Bodies, we already knew that the characteristics of the approach and landing was very similar to the X-15. Then the Shuttle came along, it’s about the same L/D [lift to drag ratio] as that. Those programs, we already had the background, so it wasn’t quite the same as the X-15 Program where everything was new. There were a lot of new issues and new things.\\n\\n I enjoyed the B-70 program too, because it had some interesting aspects. We had structural problems with the landing gear on that. Then the in-flight vibration program was interesting. But I was getting more and more involved in the supervision and administration and budget cycles by that time, that the technical aspects and the details were lost."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you can remember, or anything else that you’d like to share with us, that part of your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could mention a few other things. When I first went to work at Langley, I was surprised that personnel called me right after I got there, wanted to know if I would teach some night school classes for the University of Virginia [Charlottesville] graduate extension. I did that for 11 years. I taught advanced math. Then I worked on my Ph.D. at the same time, went to summer school at Virginia Tech [Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, Blacksburg] and got my Ph.D. from that program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did some of the Langley employees take those classes from you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering if that’s why they wanted you to teach them."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:110", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could mention a few other things. When I first went to work at Langley, I was surprised that personnel called me right after I got there, wanted to know if I would teach some night school classes for the University of Virginia [Charlottesville] graduate extension. I did that for 11 years. I taught advanced math. Then I worked on my Ph.D. at the same time, went to summer school at Virginia Tech [Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, Blacksburg] and got my Ph.D. from that program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did some of the Langley employees take those classes from you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering if that’s why they wanted you to teach them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been teaching at Purdue, so I had the background. The University of Virginia master’s program had just started an extension, and one of the things they were requiring in order to get into the program, you had to take one of the advanced math classes. Almost everybody that went through that program or even started the program I had in one of my classes. So I had 15 to 18, 20 every semester. By the time I left after 11 years, I had been acquainted with almost every engineer at Langley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming from Purdue, a lot of astronauts came from Purdue too, that school is pretty well known for producing a lot of pretty accomplished people.\n\nAll the way through NASA, engineers also."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:112", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 7.8100000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering if that’s why they wanted you to teach them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been teaching at Purdue, so I had the background. The University of Virginia master’s program had just started an extension, and one of the things they were requiring in order to get into the program, you had to take one of the advanced math classes. Almost everybody that went through that program or even started the program I had in one of my classes. So I had 15 to 18, 20 every semester. By the time I left after 11 years, I had been acquainted with almost every engineer at Langley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming from Purdue, a lot of astronauts came from Purdue too, that school is pretty well known for producing a lot of pretty accomplished people.\n\nAll the way through NASA, engineers also."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was at Purdue I was teaching the vibration class, a required course for seniors. A lot of the engineering graduates at Purdue the last two years I was there all had to go through my class on that. Almost all my students at Purdue were on the GI Bill [Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944]. Over half the class was older than I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you continue your teaching when you came out to Edwards? Did you teach out here as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:114", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been teaching at Purdue, so I had the background. The University of Virginia master’s program had just started an extension, and one of the things they were requiring in order to get into the program, you had to take one of the advanced math classes. Almost everybody that went through that program or even started the program I had in one of my classes. So I had 15 to 18, 20 every semester. By the time I left after 11 years, I had been acquainted with almost every engineer at Langley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming from Purdue, a lot of astronauts came from Purdue too, that school is pretty well known for producing a lot of pretty accomplished people.\n\nAll the way through NASA, engineers also."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was at Purdue I was teaching the vibration class, a required course for seniors. A lot of the engineering graduates at Purdue the last two years I was there all had to go through my class on that. Almost all my students at Purdue were on the GI Bill [Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944]. Over half the class was older than I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you continue your teaching when you came out to Edwards? Did you teach out here as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did some. I taught a class for UCLA, and I taught undergraduate classes for Chapman College [now Chapman University, Orange, California], and I taught a couple of advanced engineering classes for Fresno State [California State University], all at night school at Edwards. Then after I retired, I taught for a couple of years for West Coast University, mostly math and physics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed busy."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was at Purdue I was teaching the vibration class, a required course for seniors. A lot of the engineering graduates at Purdue the last two years I was there all had to go through my class on that. Almost all my students at Purdue were on the GI Bill [Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944]. Over half the class was older than I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you continue your teaching when you came out to Edwards? Did you teach out here as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did some. I taught a class for UCLA, and I taught undergraduate classes for Chapman College [now Chapman University, Orange, California], and I taught a couple of advanced engineering classes for Fresno State [California State University], all at night school at Edwards. Then after I retired, I taught for a couple of years for West Coast University, mostly math and physics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed busy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thanks for sharing that. I was going to ask you what you did your dissertation on."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00960:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thanks for sharing that. I was going to ask you what you did your dissertation on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My dissertation was done on the vibration analysis of a toroidal space station [rotating wheel design]. Shell station, you know, a big tire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they haven’t built those yet. At the time the thinking was that you had to have some gravity, because a long time in weightlessness could be a major physical problem. They were talking about having this doughnut spin, artificial gravity, so the centrifugal force would simulate gravity. I guess they decided they didn’t need to go that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you for sharing your time today."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00628:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s always a difficult question for people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say it’s probably in changing the way that we function from an inward-looking organization to one that is responsible to outside users. Whether that’s getting the program to realize building ISS isn’t the goal, it’s really getting the science done that’s the goal, or if it’s working with our international partners to help our politicians understand what we’re accomplishing.\\n\\n I think that I was in a place to have the opportunity—as the Space Station grew up I had the opportunity to be the one that was there and saying, “Hey. These things happen differently when your purpose is research. Think about this or think about that.” I had the opportunity to be in that place.\\n\\n Sometimes that’s difficult or sometimes it’s easy. Right now there’s just a momentum behind things. Things like RISE [Revolutionize ISS for Science and Exploration] are just roaring forward. That’s really exciting to see those changes happening over time. But at its core, I think the big contribution that I’ve made is seeing that big picture strategy without being biased towards any one particular discipline. My goal hasn’t been just to help astrophysics be successful on ISS. It’s been to help everybody be successful.\\n\\n When they have a conflict, if they’re fighting over crew time, I’m still trying to help each of them get what they need within the constraints of the law."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned RISE. Are you working with that group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say that group came after the influence that I had. I definitely meet with them and insert my two cents, but what’s beautiful about that is it’s got a momentum of its own. People are really changing the way that they’re thinking on their own. Engineering organizations are removing their own requirements. That’s the beauty of RISE, is that you’ve got change generated from within."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you consider your most significant challenge?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00319:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 72.34316868469189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had maybe about 10 or 12 pieces of glass in the cockpit. I went up there to look at those factories several times. We went in, and they’d show me the sand and show me the glass being done and the boules being made. It was very important for somebody like me to go there, not because I knew a thing about glass. But it was good for me to let them know that what they were doing was important to the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that similar to what you did during the Apollo Program? Was Shuttle development and Apollo development similar? Or were they very different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. I think North American did most of it themselves, from a management point of view, not from an engineering point of view. All of our engineers were all over the place like ants. But I guess it was me. I don’t know.\\n\\n That’s what I wanted to do. They wanted me to do it. I’m Chris Kraft now. That doesn’t mean much in most places, but it does mean something in the space business. It was good that Aaron [Cohen] and I would show up—here’s the program manager from NASA, here’s the Director of NASA, here’s the president of Rockwell Aerospace, here’s the program manager, here’s the chief engineer, and the engineer that’s got the responsibility within North American for the APU. We were in Sundstrand [Iowa] one morning when it was minus 40 degrees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, that’s cold."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went there a lot. Sundstrand is in the middle of the Corn Belt. We’d get off the airplane, one of these small airports, and drive down through the cornfields, these big cornfields. We landed in Binghamton, New York, in an ice storm. All kinds of experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Shuttle was so complicated. You were going to launch in what—’78 originally? Then it kept getting pushed back. Was there ever a sense from your perspective that gosh, we’re never going to get off the ground?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00319:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 39.16757078018255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t know what else to do. We did not know what else to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had done everything that you could."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had done everything we could think of. We convinced ourselves that we had done the best we could, we didn’t think it was going to fail. When you start out with just thrusters, these attitude thrusters are shooting and balancing the loads—the moments on the airplane, forces on the airplane. I said before the flight, “Well, we’ll probably have to change those gains after we get through the first flight.” After it landed I said, “We won’t touch a thing, it worked. Don’t touch it.” I don’t know whether they’ve touched them since or not. But it worked and we decided not to fool around with it anymore, the damn thing worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of that first flight being manned? Were you in favor of that, or were you in favor of unmanned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, oh, sure. The systems required the operation and the oversight of the pilots during reentry—not during launch, nothing they can do during launch. But during reentry if the Orbiter had gone unstable, they probably could have helped it; the systems on board had an awful lot of redundancy. So if you had a system fail, you could have them switch to another system. You had the crew’s brains thinking as well as the people on the ground having the capability of oversight.\\n\\n We went through a lot to prove that we should launch STS-1 manned instead of unmanned; it was the first time we ever tried to do anything like that. We convinced ourselves that the reliability was higher and the risk lower, even though we were risking the lives of two men. We convinced ourselves and the top NASA management that that was a better way to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After STS-1 landed, you’ve been quoted as saying, “We grew infinitely smarter.” Could you explain what you meant by that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00319:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.6255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was kind of funny, because Reagan was a very simple human being. He’s dumb like a fox, but still not very knowledgeable in the technical world. Matter of fact, probably one of the lowest presidents in technology we’ve ever had, but that wasn’t important in his job, it didn’t mean anything.\\n\\n Trying to explain to him what we were doing in any form wasn’t easy. What he said to me was, “You know, Dr. Kraft, I can’t understand most of the stuff you’re telling me, and I don’t understand most of what’s going on here, because I was only in the cavalry.”\\n\\n When you see that picture of him and me, that’s exactly what he said to me, “I was only in the cavalry.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he certainly appreciated what we were doing and what we did. We seem to have seen both ends of that spectrum from Reagan to Griffin. Griffin is too smart. You can’t be that smart and be a manager or be a NASA Administrator.\\n\\n Now [Griffin] was very important to NASA, he did a fantastic job, and he is what they needed at the time. But he also is not what is needed today. He made NASA a leaderless organization, because he was too smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who do you think should be the next Administrator?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Charlie [Charles F.] Bolden would be a great one I think. That’s only a guess. Because Charlie is smart but he’s not too smart. You don’t want managers to be too smart. You want them to build people, build leaders, build responsibility. If you take it on all yourself, which is what Joe [Joseph F.] Shea [Manager of the Apollo Spacecraft Program Office, 1963-1967] did, then you end up with a pretty tough situation, because nobody is that smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. We all need people."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00319:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he certainly appreciated what we were doing and what we did. We seem to have seen both ends of that spectrum from Reagan to Griffin. Griffin is too smart. You can’t be that smart and be a manager or be a NASA Administrator.\\n\\n Now [Griffin] was very important to NASA, he did a fantastic job, and he is what they needed at the time. But he also is not what is needed today. He made NASA a leaderless organization, because he was too smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who do you think should be the next Administrator?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Charlie [Charles F.] Bolden would be a great one I think. That’s only a guess. Because Charlie is smart but he’s not too smart. You don’t want managers to be too smart. You want them to build people, build leaders, build responsibility. If you take it on all yourself, which is what Joe [Joseph F.] Shea [Manager of the Apollo Spacecraft Program Office, 1963-1967] did, then you end up with a pretty tough situation, because nobody is that smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. We all need people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. If you’re too smart, you think you know everything. You don’t know everything. You’re a damn sight far away from knowing everything in any complex situation. You’re better off being a little dumb than you are being too smart because that makes the situation what it ought to be—you build more people, better people, and people that take and are willing to accept responsibility for getting the job done. They will do it a lot better when you teach them or allow them to be taught or allow them to gain the experience to do it. That’s a simple criterion that ought to be followed. Now if you could come up with both, that would be the ideal, but also idealistic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your style when you were Center Director?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00037:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 81.38587280057156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, but there is a process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say, you have a volunteer here if you need one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I wouldn’t be surprised. Is that something that you would do, is that what you’re saying?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And your interest in architecture. And I was touring one of the galleries last week and saw that there is a couple architectural drawings hanging up on the walls to showcase some of the documents that the Archive has. I was interested, why isn’t there anything about the Archives building itself? It’s such an interesting icon."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00037:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 32.097201, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was, almost three weeks. And that exhibit was initially supposed to open in early November, I think. And it got pushed back to mid-December. I can’t remember if we opened, I think we opened before Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And wasn’t the Archives, or the Federal government closed that day, when the exhibit opened? Or that was the Signatures exhibit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the Signature exhibit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the closed the day of the snowstorm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The snow, yeah. No. But it wasn’t, yeah. I was here for the opening of the Records of Rights exhibit. I remember coming to work that day, going home, changing clothes, picking up my wife, and coming back for the evening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well you mentioned the lighting in the Rotunda, I wanted to the talk about that."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00037:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 12.41, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The LED fixtures are not cheap. And they only last six to eight years and you got to replace them. But, but they’re not using carbon. The fixtures themselves, you know, like 8 or 9 watts is equivalent to a 65 watt fixture, the LED 8 or 9 watt output is, produces the same light that a 60 or 65 watt fixture does. So—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we’re pulling a lot less electricity to light the Rotunda. Probably about 20 to 25% of what we were using before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well have you been recognized with any awards or citations in your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I got an Archivist Achievement Award, a group, you know, along with a larger group of people, for both the Charters Encasement Project and the new Rubenstein Gallery project, Record of Rights exhibit. I certainly earned other spot awards over the years. I can’t really sit here and tell you what they are. I’ve never been motivated by awards. But I’m appreciative of the awards I’ve got. I may have gotten another one for the Magna Carta exhibit that we put up a couple of years ago, but I can’t remember. But I’m the kind of person that all of those certificates that I’ve gotten over the years are stuffed in a couple of folders in a file. I appreciate them but I’m not one of those guys that’s got them all up on the wall in my office. Not even one of them. But I do appreciate that I’ve been recognized. Yeah. I feel like I’ve been recognized, well-recognized for my work here at the Archives through the years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. What do you see as the biggest challenges for the National Archive in the future? From your perspective."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.661929917556865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Many labs submerge hardware to be cleaned in ultrasonic cleaners. The ultrasonic energy loosens the particles so they can be washed away. Megasonic is a higher energy level. The cleaning effects are slightly different than ultrasonic. Our device provided a shower of megasonically energized ultrapure water aimed at the object to be cleaned. It’s like taking a shower versus taking a bath. In the bathtub you’re sitting with the dirt, in the shower the dirt is washed down the drain. There was that difference. By particle counts that we took, it worked really well, getting these large, odd-shape pieces particle-free and cleaned up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that process take you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trying to recall the dates. If we were to clean one piece, like the bottom or the top, it would be a daylong thing: getting it in there, cleaning it up. Then you had to take nitrogen jets and dry it. All of this was in a fairly particle-free room. You’d set that out overnight. It would be ready to assemble the next day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you say this was also manufactured in a clean room? So if it was, what was the idea or the intent behind having to clean the equipment again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think payload parts were manufactured in a regular machine shop, perhaps with care to keep it clean. Additionally parts arrived from JPL cleaned and bagged, but their typical flight cleaning requirements were not sufficient to meet the science requirements."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it was. Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.29103324172985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trying to recall the dates. If we were to clean one piece, like the bottom or the top, it would be a daylong thing: getting it in there, cleaning it up. Then you had to take nitrogen jets and dry it. All of this was in a fairly particle-free room. You’d set that out overnight. It would be ready to assemble the next day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you say this was also manufactured in a clean room? So if it was, what was the idea or the intent behind having to clean the equipment again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think payload parts were manufactured in a regular machine shop, perhaps with care to keep it clean. Additionally parts arrived from JPL cleaned and bagged, but their typical flight cleaning requirements were not sufficient to meet the science requirements."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it was. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did some precleaning on it, you know wiping. We actually used a little bit of surfactant. In this case it was Joy [dishwashing liquid], two drops of Joy in a whole pan of water, but that was just to get handling debris off of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was concern about contamination. Is that why it had to be clean? Were you concerned about bringing life here and sending it to the Sun? I’m just curious about that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.20184917197051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we actually had people change out of their street clothes and put on scrubs under those suits just to keep from dragging particles from street clothes into the lab. Also that was cooler than most street clothes. The suits didn’t breathe all that well. Our precautions were for the purpose of keeping the interior of the suits clean and personnel comfort. The LRL procedure was for the purpose of containment of potential biohazards inside the LRL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine with Teflon on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the clean room—the air coming from the ceiling to the floor travels at 100 linear feet per minute. So what does that make, 12 air changes a minute? That “vertical breeze” cools things off a lot just because the air is moving. In the LRL the scrubs were the lab outfit. They made people take off everything and put on laboratory-furnished scrubs. They had to take off everything and shower out before they could leave. They were just trying to make sure no one carried anything hazardous out of the lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever go visit any clean labs in Silicon Valley as you were creating this lab? Or did you just read up on literature and decide, “These are the things that we need to have as we’re constructing this lab”?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We attended—between Eileen, Jack, and I—several semiconductor conferences. They provided clean room classes, suit classes, air shower classes. We went to the trade shows. That’s where we got our megasonic cleaner that we used and the cascade tanks. Most of those things were not very expensive. Back in those days several semiconductor trade shows were in Austin, so we could drive. It was very economical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So most everything was off the shelf. It wasn’t anything newly created for JSC?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 40.22427685774501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the clean room—the air coming from the ceiling to the floor travels at 100 linear feet per minute. So what does that make, 12 air changes a minute? That “vertical breeze” cools things off a lot just because the air is moving. In the LRL the scrubs were the lab outfit. They made people take off everything and put on laboratory-furnished scrubs. They had to take off everything and shower out before they could leave. They were just trying to make sure no one carried anything hazardous out of the lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever go visit any clean labs in Silicon Valley as you were creating this lab? Or did you just read up on literature and decide, “These are the things that we need to have as we’re constructing this lab”?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We attended—between Eileen, Jack, and I—several semiconductor conferences. They provided clean room classes, suit classes, air shower classes. We went to the trade shows. That’s where we got our megasonic cleaner that we used and the cascade tanks. Most of those things were not very expensive. Back in those days several semiconductor trade shows were in Austin, so we could drive. It was very economical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So most everything was off the shelf. It wasn’t anything newly created for JSC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of our equipment was off the shelf, and one Genesis contribution was adapting ultrapure water for cleaning flight hardware and assembling the payload in a Class 10 environment. After the crash, we made another significant contribution by adapting a wafer spin cleaner and using it to megasonically spin clean selected Genesis collector fragments. That works well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you come up with that idea?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 37.1350051177336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He knew about the water, because we had switched over to cleaning lunar tools that way. We picked a cleanliness level, and what we would need to achieve that cleanliness level. Since it was similar to the semiconductor industry, Don Burnett was agreeable, because they had already been buying materials cleaned by the semiconductor industry for collectors and analyzing them. They were satisfied that they were clean enough. They were probably the cleanest anyone could get things in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far out had you been working on this clean room? Was it before they started building the spacecraft? Or was it as they were designing and building?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Genesis was initially proposed as Discovery Mission called Suess-Urey. Suess-Urey Mission did not get selected that time, but our sister sample return mission Stardust did. However, many elements of the solar wind mission had been already developed. We’d already written the contamination control plan, of which I was a major contributor. When another round of Discovery competition opened, the basic elements of Suess-Urey plus improvements were submitted under the name Genesis, something that sounded more attractive, I guess. A lot of the Phase A work was already done.\\n\\n We had already thought about how to do this clean room, so when it was selected late in 1997 it was a matter of getting the Center (JSC) to support the facility, which Eileen Stansbery negotiated and is most knowledgeable about those details. JSC provided engineering support and funding for preparing an existing room in 31N into which a Class 10 cleanroom could be placed. The cost was very modest, since we were just setting a clean room inside of an existing room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole mission wasn’t that expensive. I saw the cost. It’s very modest, especially compared to a Space Shuttle flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. But what made it really go was the four or five of us were just all persnickety. We were after every detail. To prepare a clean room for this mission and to permit good analyses at that low sensitivity level, you have to watch all the details, and sometimes that’s not really appreciated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure some people, maybe facility people, got a little frustrated at times."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 42.89997310324239, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The original Lunar Sample Building was well done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned JPL coming out here. Did you have the opportunity to go out to JPL or Lockheed at any time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not go to JPL or LMA during mission development. One reason is that I was extremely busy at JSC getting the cleanroom ready. Eileen participated in meetings at JPL as the principal JSC representative. I interacted more with JPL, Lockheed Martin, and UTTR in the interval after launch and getting ready for recovery. What we were going to do in Utah, and how to get ready for that. There was still more procedures that needed to be written. How did we want to document the handling environment at UTTR, witness plates, etc.? What was the process of retrieving the payload and the sample return capsule?\\n\\n Genesis sample return capsule was scheduled to re-enter at UTTR at 10 a.m., September 8, 2004. The recovery plan called for a mid-air retrieval of the capsule. After the parachute was deployed, slowing down the descent, the parachute was to be snagged using a hook towed by a helicopter. The helicopter pilot was to snag the parachute, set it gently on the ground to secure it, and then fly the SRC to a clean room that we had set up nearby at UTTR. That cleanroom operated with a few HEPA FFUs and did not have a raised floor, so it was not the level of cleanliness in the JSC Genesis Lab. This cleanroom was placed at UTTR in order to saw open the SRC and put a nitrogen purge on the closed payload canister. Then the payload would go into a shipping box connected to a nitrogen cylinder. It would be transported under nitrogen purge all the way back to Houston, and only be opened when again back in the JSC clean room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t quite work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No it did not. That’s not what happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you all come up with that idea of that helicopter coming in and making that grab?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.11834764897354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I watched the re-entry sequence in the high bay of the building (Building 1112) at Dugway next to the cleanroom set up to receive the SRC. I was watching with the crew from JSC, LMA, and JPL who were prepared to open the SRC and, inside the cleanroom, put the nitrogen purge on the sample canister. We watched the capsule tumble downward and smack into the dry lakebed. Our heads turned toward the storage cabinets where we had placed kits for collecting shards off the desert floor, if the recovery did not go as planned. We were already looking at the cabinets, wanting to get the collecting kits, and go to the crash site to recover the collectors. These kits were buckets with pre-numbered containers, mostly bags, gloves, tweezers for cleanly picking up shards, but also included a camera, scale bar, and notebooks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had worked on those contingency plans just in case?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I brought terrain maps in case we needed them, but the people at Hill Air Force Base, they had their own maps too. I had written a documentation plan, which contained a section on documenting samples collected under this unhappy circumstance of scattered shards. Yes, we were ready for that. I’m not sure all the managers were ready for us to go out there. It took a while for that to settle out, and we workers had to obtain permission to go to the site and start recovering material."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? Why was that the case, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure as a scientist you were ready to get out there."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 45.68705294330393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I brought terrain maps in case we needed them, but the people at Hill Air Force Base, they had their own maps too. I had written a documentation plan, which contained a section on documenting samples collected under this unhappy circumstance of scattered shards. Yes, we were ready for that. I’m not sure all the managers were ready for us to go out there. It took a while for that to settle out, and we workers had to obtain permission to go to the site and start recovering material."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? Why was that the case, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure as a scientist you were ready to get out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We knew what we wanted to do. I guess they wanted to double-check everything, which I thought would have been done already. I am sure those discussions were interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you go out and capture this material? Did you have to suit up? Or you could just go out dressed as we are today?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 43.73102644288267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was partly a perk for having stayed out there over a month and working long hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s just for Center leadership, isn’t it, pretty much, the Gulfstream? At least it seems like it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we had an astronaut pilot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, cool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reception like here when you finally came back? The Building 31 crew and then the Center as well. Do you remember?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 43.03447382542519, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we had an astronaut pilot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, cool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reception like here when you finally came back? The Building 31 crew and then the Center as well. Do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember we landed in a horrid rainstorm at Ellington [Airport, Houston, Texas]. Then we just unloaded the plane, and it must have been vans. I cannot remember that. It was a short trip from Ellington. We had a clean room we had set up for space-exposed hardware, so that’s where we put the boxes that we had unloaded from the Gulfstream at Ellington. Then a portion of those were moved into Genesis Lab.\\n\\n Lisa [A.] Fletcher (now Lisa Pace) had done an excellent job of logging thousands of samples in Utah. We had prenumbered tags with all these vials. We had a numbering system set up ahead of time for all this, so we had all these numbers to put on clean vials and whatever we put stuff in. All that was in a database, it was all logged in there in Utah, so we could check it out when we got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you start when you came back? Were you immediately cataloging or curating?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.931441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the Cape to see it launch, but we didn’t launch that day, or the next, and I came home. Eileen was the only one from our team who stayed the rest of the week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s disappointing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We hustled to get Genesis out the door to Denver, so it could be integrated onto the spacecraft in August of 2000. Then we had to sit and wait a whole year, because there was a Mars launch of some kind that needed that launch window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hurry up and wait, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hurry up and wait."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people are working in the lab these days?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 6.59049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We hustled to get Genesis out the door to Denver, so it could be integrated onto the spacecraft in August of 2000. Then we had to sit and wait a whole year, because there was a Mars launch of some kind that needed that launch window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hurry up and wait, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hurry up and wait."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people are working in the lab these days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s two people that we call processors that work with the samples, and they’re doing inventory as we speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds like fun. What do you think your biggest challenge is working with the Genesis Program, from the time you started working on the contamination control plan until today? Do you have any major challenges?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hurry up and wait."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people are working in the lab these days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s two people that we call processors that work with the samples, and they’re doing inventory as we speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds like fun. What do you think your biggest challenge is working with the Genesis Program, from the time you started working on the contamination control plan until today? Do you have any major challenges?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to say, I think we all had it lucky. The team worked well together. When I look at other missions and other teams—Don Burnett is the principal reason for this. He still holds a meeting every year of the people who are interested in working on Genesis samples. Many of the people that come are back from the original team. He refers to the team as family. In recovering from the crash, he asked people to collaborate who might normally be competing. They did. One, because they respected Don, and two, they wanted to help salvage the mission science. And I’m beginning to see that it’s unusual for relationships to work that well.\\n\\n The annual gathering of the science team family is about 40 researchers today. In the 8-10 years after sample return, the team photos show about 80 people. Don once estimated 100 scientists have participated on the science team. There were strong bonds of friendship among the engineers, scientists, and curators that outlasted the mission status of Genesis.\\n\\n On the 5th anniversary of sample return, about 20 people—many were technicians who helped salvage the samples from the desert floor—made a pilgrimage to UTTR to set a steel obelisk bearing the name “Genesis” and “September 8, 2004” to mark the landing spot. Inside the obelisk a time capsule was placed. The contents are mission documents and procedures, including a video of mid-air retrieval practice. JPL Genesis Project Manager Don Sweetnam personally commissioned the making of the marker. Now retired, Don Sweetnam still follows the Genesis science results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You attribute that to Don? Or were there other factors?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s two people that we call processors that work with the samples, and they’re doing inventory as we speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds like fun. What do you think your biggest challenge is working with the Genesis Program, from the time you started working on the contamination control plan until today? Do you have any major challenges?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to say, I think we all had it lucky. The team worked well together. When I look at other missions and other teams—Don Burnett is the principal reason for this. He still holds a meeting every year of the people who are interested in working on Genesis samples. Many of the people that come are back from the original team. He refers to the team as family. In recovering from the crash, he asked people to collaborate who might normally be competing. They did. One, because they respected Don, and two, they wanted to help salvage the mission science. And I’m beginning to see that it’s unusual for relationships to work that well.\\n\\n The annual gathering of the science team family is about 40 researchers today. In the 8-10 years after sample return, the team photos show about 80 people. Don once estimated 100 scientists have participated on the science team. There were strong bonds of friendship among the engineers, scientists, and curators that outlasted the mission status of Genesis.\\n\\n On the 5th anniversary of sample return, about 20 people—many were technicians who helped salvage the samples from the desert floor—made a pilgrimage to UTTR to set a steel obelisk bearing the name “Genesis” and “September 8, 2004” to mark the landing spot. Inside the obelisk a time capsule was placed. The contents are mission documents and procedures, including a video of mid-air retrieval practice. JPL Genesis Project Manager Don Sweetnam personally commissioned the making of the marker. Now retired, Don Sweetnam still follows the Genesis science results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You attribute that to Don? Or were there other factors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly to Don."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably holds a special place in your heart then."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to say, I think we all had it lucky. The team worked well together. When I look at other missions and other teams—Don Burnett is the principal reason for this. He still holds a meeting every year of the people who are interested in working on Genesis samples. Many of the people that come are back from the original team. He refers to the team as family. In recovering from the crash, he asked people to collaborate who might normally be competing. They did. One, because they respected Don, and two, they wanted to help salvage the mission science. And I’m beginning to see that it’s unusual for relationships to work that well.\\n\\n The annual gathering of the science team family is about 40 researchers today. In the 8-10 years after sample return, the team photos show about 80 people. Don once estimated 100 scientists have participated on the science team. There were strong bonds of friendship among the engineers, scientists, and curators that outlasted the mission status of Genesis.\\n\\n On the 5th anniversary of sample return, about 20 people—many were technicians who helped salvage the samples from the desert floor—made a pilgrimage to UTTR to set a steel obelisk bearing the name “Genesis” and “September 8, 2004” to mark the landing spot. Inside the obelisk a time capsule was placed. The contents are mission documents and procedures, including a video of mid-air retrieval practice. JPL Genesis Project Manager Don Sweetnam personally commissioned the making of the marker. Now retired, Don Sweetnam still follows the Genesis science results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You attribute that to Don? Or were there other factors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly to Don."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably holds a special place in your heart then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your most significant contribution to the Genesis Program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly to Don."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably holds a special place in your heart then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your most significant contribution to the Genesis Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess overall I’m kind of a stickler for looking at the composition of everything that goes into the lab and checking it. But I could say they kind of hold me responsible for having them send 6,000 containers to Utah, just in case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a Girl Scout? That was good contingency planning on your part."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00028:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your most significant contribution to the Genesis Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess overall I’m kind of a stickler for looking at the composition of everything that goes into the lab and checking it. But I could say they kind of hold me responsible for having them send 6,000 containers to Utah, just in case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a Girl Scout? That was good contingency planning on your part."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we ran that one out as much as we could ahead of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that we have exhausted my questions. I wasn’t sure—might there be something else that you want to talk about in relation to Genesis?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00501:16", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 59.3852680502801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I should say that during the several months, and I can't quite remember when the trip was in relationship to the final decision, there were quite a few decisions and quite a few meetings and letter-writing and so on. Joe [Joseph F.] Shea was hired at just about that point to work with Brainerd Holmes. He came over to see me and what he remembers my saying—I don't remember this—I said, \"Joe, you've got one major assignment: sell lunar orbit rendezvous.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was given that task then to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, while working for Brainerd Holmes, I mean, but underlying the specific things he had to do, \"Just remember, your job is to sell it.\" By selling, I meant not out in the public, but I meant in discussions. We were already having discussions with the White House and eventually with Congress, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it really a matter of getting the opinion of the White House and Congress behind the decision, or was it a matter of—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think once the White House agreed, I don't think that we had any trouble with the Congress on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the NASA workforce, the people actually building the launch vehicle and command module and all that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00501:18", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 62.65029783364455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, while working for Brainerd Holmes, I mean, but underlying the specific things he had to do, \"Just remember, your job is to sell it.\" By selling, I meant not out in the public, but I meant in discussions. We were already having discussions with the White House and eventually with Congress, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it really a matter of getting the opinion of the White House and Congress behind the decision, or was it a matter of—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think once the White House agreed, I don't think that we had any trouble with the Congress on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the NASA workforce, the people actually building the launch vehicle and command module and all that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't recall any adverse reaction. I mentioned Abe Silverstein, him and some other people at the Lewis [Research] Center [Cleveland, Ohio]. I can't recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of the centers, I know that all of the centers at that time reported to you, is that correct?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00501:38", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 30.230735289000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then maybe we can then go ahead and wrap up and, hopefully, if you wouldn't mind, I could have the opportunity to talk to you again. We can elaborate on these questions.\\n\\n When you came into NASA Headquarters, the Mercury Program was already under way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The astronauts were selected a year before I arrived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you involved in the Mercury Program, if at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. Was I involved at all?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand on a much more top-level organization, you were working with the organization and helping Mr. Webb with the larger decisions."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00501:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the 76 [joint Gemini VII and Gemini VI mission]. That was the rendezvous one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was, I believe, Stafford and [Walter M.] Schirra [Jr.], and then [Frank Borman] and [James A.] Lovell [Jr.] was VI and VII. Then I believe IX was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had the so-called 76 Project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where [Frank] Borman went up in VII and the idea was to clear the pad, we only had one pad, and put Gemini VI on it and go up and rendezvous. Wasn't that Stafford?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was, with Wally Schirra as command."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00501:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had the so-called 76 Project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where [Frank] Borman went up in VII and the idea was to clear the pad, we only had one pad, and put Gemini VI on it and go up and rendezvous. Wasn't that Stafford?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was, with Wally Schirra as command."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then I believe IX, Stafford commanded with Cernan."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00501:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where [Frank] Borman went up in VII and the idea was to clear the pad, we only had one pad, and put Gemini VI on it and go up and rendezvous. Wasn't that Stafford?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was, with Wally Schirra as command."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then I believe IX, Stafford commanded with Cernan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I forget the specifics of IX."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe they tried to dock with the ATDA [Augmented Target Docking Adaptor]—the angry alligator is what they called it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00501:60", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then I believe IX, Stafford commanded with Cernan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I forget the specifics of IX."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe they tried to dock with the ATDA [Augmented Target Docking Adaptor]—the angry alligator is what they called it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It didn't unfold properly. There was the target docking adapter, the Agena target docking adapter."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00501:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I forget the specifics of IX."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe they tried to dock with the ATDA [Augmented Target Docking Adaptor]—the angry alligator is what they called it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It didn't unfold properly. There was the target docking adapter, the Agena target docking adapter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't quite get to dock with it, because, I guess, the cover on top of the ATDA did not unfold properly. In addition to that, they had a few space walks, and I believe Mr. Cernan had some trouble on his space walks where he lost about thirteen pounds just in trying to attempt the work package that was given."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00501:64", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It didn't unfold properly. There was the target docking adapter, the Agena target docking adapter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't quite get to dock with it, because, I guess, the cover on top of the ATDA did not unfold properly. In addition to that, they had a few space walks, and I believe Mr. Cernan had some trouble on his space walks where he lost about thirteen pounds just in trying to attempt the work package that was given."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, right in that period there, we were learning how difficult it was to get outside of a capsule and do anything worthwhile, because you'd try, with a screwdriver, to turn a screw this way and instead of the screw going, you'd start rotating yourself. We realized we had a lot to learn about how to operate in space, human beings operating in space. You had to have special footholds and handholds and all of those kinds of things. I think we did have a special committee to review that. I don't quite remember the specifics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The reason why I'm asking is because I've read about this Review Board in some of the history books, and they discuss that it was created after the IX mission, and I just wondered why it perhaps wasn't created under the VIII mission, because of the problem you had mentioned. But it didn't specifically say what the Review Board was for or give any of the results. That's why I was very curious if you might be able to shed some light on that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00501:66", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't quite get to dock with it, because, I guess, the cover on top of the ATDA did not unfold properly. In addition to that, they had a few space walks, and I believe Mr. Cernan had some trouble on his space walks where he lost about thirteen pounds just in trying to attempt the work package that was given."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, right in that period there, we were learning how difficult it was to get outside of a capsule and do anything worthwhile, because you'd try, with a screwdriver, to turn a screw this way and instead of the screw going, you'd start rotating yourself. We realized we had a lot to learn about how to operate in space, human beings operating in space. You had to have special footholds and handholds and all of those kinds of things. I think we did have a special committee to review that. I don't quite remember the specifics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The reason why I'm asking is because I've read about this Review Board in some of the history books, and they discuss that it was created after the IX mission, and I just wondered why it perhaps wasn't created under the VIII mission, because of the problem you had mentioned. But it didn't specifically say what the Review Board was for or give any of the results. That's why I was very curious if you might be able to shed some light on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see if we can find out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe I'll do a little bit deeper digging."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00501:68", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, right in that period there, we were learning how difficult it was to get outside of a capsule and do anything worthwhile, because you'd try, with a screwdriver, to turn a screw this way and instead of the screw going, you'd start rotating yourself. We realized we had a lot to learn about how to operate in space, human beings operating in space. You had to have special footholds and handholds and all of those kinds of things. I think we did have a special committee to review that. I don't quite remember the specifics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The reason why I'm asking is because I've read about this Review Board in some of the history books, and they discuss that it was created after the IX mission, and I just wondered why it perhaps wasn't created under the VIII mission, because of the problem you had mentioned. But it didn't specifically say what the Review Board was for or give any of the results. That's why I was very curious if you might be able to shed some light on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see if we can find out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe I'll do a little bit deeper digging."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was a period when we were really trying to lay to rest our ability to rendezvous and dock, as well as to operate, because as a backup, if we somehow or other hadn't been able to latch the two together so that you could crawl from the lunar module through into the capsule for the return, the backup was going to [require the astronauts] to egress the lunar module and go across and go into the [return] capsule, which would have been a fairly tricky maneuver. But in desperation, it was possible. So that's one of the reasons that we had people outside for these so-called EVAs.\\n\\n [I believe I established a “special group” following Gemini IX to recommend experiments for the final Gemini missions. The purpose of these experiments was to better understand why it was so difficult for an astronaut to function outside the capsule—EVA—and to find ways to minimize the difficulty.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it seems like it's about time, so why don't we try to stop here."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00615:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 46.94106031688454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, his [Barnie Fife], right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you a couple questions about the Vibration and Acoustic Test Facility. You mentioned that the acoustics was going to be a major issue, but were there vibration test facilities across the country that you might have considered testing the Apollo Command Module and things in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As a matter of fact, we did take some parts of the Command/Service Module out to an acoustic chamber that Ken had in El Segundo. We made use of that. I can't recall the details now on how big it was but it was of sufficient size to test the component or subassembly or assembly that we were testing at the time. That was an acoustic test. Some vibration tests might have been done at Downey [California], I don't recall. But we did most of it there in 49 in our general vibration lab. Then when we got the whole what we called boilerplate structures where you have mass simulators instead of actual systems we did most of that in the vibration tower or in the general vibration lab depending upon what size we were dealing with and so forth and what the test conditions were. But we did all that in 49, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your facilities differ from say the facilities out at North American [Aviation] or in El Segundo?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00615:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 71.87552950450764, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for one thing I learned how to work hard and get no sleep. (Laughter) We were going -- like I keep saying and I'm sorry to beat that rabbit over and over, but we were working 24/7 around the clock. Now the good part was that we were all young. We were in our 20s and 30s. We wore short-sleeved white shirts with narrow black ties and crew cuts, flattops, and we were gung-ho and enthusiastic. Another funny one is that a lot of us were single in those early days, and we'd work round the clock and round the clock, and we just couldn't take it any longer. And so we'd jump on an airplane and we'd go down to Acapulco [Mexico] for two, three days and just party. (Laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And not get any more sleep?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Still not get any sleep, right. Well at least we had something else going on and lots of laughs and fun. Then we'd come back. I got stories about flying Pan Am and Aeronaves de Mexico down there, but that's probably another time. But anyway so that was a relief for us so we could get back and then hit it again 24/7. But we were working long and hard and going fast. So we didn't have a whole lot of time to do a lot of breathing. Plus doing our traveling like I said, you know, for creating approaches for the simulations, and then of course also helping with the actual hardware, flight hardware. I practically lived in Downey, like a lot of us did. And then later on Bethpage [New York], when we were working with Grumman to be involved intimately with the design and creation, fabrication and test and verification of the space hardware."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you a few things about your social life. You mentioned a lot of you were single at that point. Were you still single at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you living here in the Clear Lake [Texas] area or did you live elsewhere?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00615:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 74.53769074630573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you living here in the Clear Lake [Texas] area or did you live elsewhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well yes when I first came down from Fort Worth and Dallas I was single at that time. As a matter of fact we were in a located up and down Telephone Road, so most of us lived in that area. So there was a guy, [Duke Mitchum], I had run into over at Love Field [Dallas, Texas] at a party after school one night there who was a reservations manager with Tree Top Airlines, or Trans-Texas Airways. We called them Tree Top Airlines. (Laughter) Later became I guess what? TIA, Trans International Airways or something. Anyway he was reservations manager for the company in Dallas and he was going to become reservations manager in Houston, so he said, “Hey why don't we room together, I'm going down there.” So we did. So we got an apartment on Telephone Road, in the I think it was the Skylane Apartments or something. Just lived there, two of us for a while. Then later on we went our separate ways. But yes I lived on Telephone Road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you moved, did you move to the Clear Lake area? Or did you move--?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I kind of stayed up that way when we came down to the site. Golly, I can't remember where all I lived. Apartment living, you know, single guys lives in apartments and so forth. I always just tried to keep busy. I entered myself in the Ph.D. program at University of Houston [Houston, Texas]. So I was taking some classes and teaching some also over on the main campus there. So it was beneficial for me to kind of stay close there as against go ahead and move right away down to the Clear Lake area. So I kind of stayed in that vicinity. I can't remember where all I lived, but somewhere around between Telephone Road and U of H, in that vicinity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of Houston when you moved here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00615:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that was one of the guys that was involved of the couple hundred people or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you ran the test were you running it 24 hours a day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Round the clock 24/7 for seven days. I think it was seven days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you keeping those kind of crazy hours since you were in charge?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, oh yes. Yes, you know I had other people doing things and a test director and all that. Oh yes I was there, practically lived there, right, right, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did everything go well or were there any anomalies that you recall?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00615:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Round the clock 24/7 for seven days. I think it was seven days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you keeping those kind of crazy hours since you were in charge?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, oh yes. Yes, you know I had other people doing things and a test director and all that. Oh yes I was there, practically lived there, right, right, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did everything go well or were there any anomalies that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The bottom line out of that as I recall was that we had no problems with the Apollo Command/Service Module hardware or equipment. It all performed as advertised, thank goodness, because we didn't have much time, and we didn't have any room for error, and remember it's a constraint on Apollo 8. So we had to get an answer and it had to be right, and if we found something major wrong, (whistle) that hit the whole program schedule. The crew always when they participated in things like this wrote up crew reports.\\n\\n As I recall Joe and them came up with oh some small items like I think they said there was some water dripping off some of the condensate lines and so they had a little drip, drip, drip and maybe a little wetness. No big deal. They said as far as they were concerned it was no big deal, even though they had 10- or 12-page report. But they were selling it by the pound so they -- no, they had -- I think they had some trouble with some of the food bags. They had some trouble with some of the comm. equipment. I don't remember the details of some of it. But there were minor things. So the bottom line is that it was a success. Everything turned out fine, thank goodness. It was cleared to go and the constraint for Apollo 8 was lifted. And we were good to go to the Moon without a LM and get there and show the Russians that we could do this. Look, we're going around the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think this'd be a good place for us to stop and pick up actually with the testing of LM-2 next time. What do you think about that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00615:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, oh yes. Yes, you know I had other people doing things and a test director and all that. Oh yes I was there, practically lived there, right, right, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did everything go well or were there any anomalies that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The bottom line out of that as I recall was that we had no problems with the Apollo Command/Service Module hardware or equipment. It all performed as advertised, thank goodness, because we didn't have much time, and we didn't have any room for error, and remember it's a constraint on Apollo 8. So we had to get an answer and it had to be right, and if we found something major wrong, (whistle) that hit the whole program schedule. The crew always when they participated in things like this wrote up crew reports.\\n\\n As I recall Joe and them came up with oh some small items like I think they said there was some water dripping off some of the condensate lines and so they had a little drip, drip, drip and maybe a little wetness. No big deal. They said as far as they were concerned it was no big deal, even though they had 10- or 12-page report. But they were selling it by the pound so they -- no, they had -- I think they had some trouble with some of the food bags. They had some trouble with some of the comm. equipment. I don't remember the details of some of it. But there were minor things. So the bottom line is that it was a success. Everything turned out fine, thank goodness. It was cleared to go and the constraint for Apollo 8 was lifted. And we were good to go to the Moon without a LM and get there and show the Russians that we could do this. Look, we're going around the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think this'd be a good place for us to stop and pick up actually with the testing of LM-2 next time. What do you think about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, okay. That'd be great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Well thank you very much."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.2217717240105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's start by asking you, why did you actually join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I joined the Peace Corps because before Kennedy ever announced the Peace Corps, I had a desire to serve and as a desire to travel. And when he announced it, it was like the perfect answer. Because I'm of that generation. I had read The Ugly American. I wanted to go out into the world and show that not all Americans were ugly and consumer oriented and disregarding of other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in a little town in western North Carolina, right at the foot of the mountains, the town of Spindale. I always said it's 70 miles west of Charlotte and 26 miles straight down from Asheville."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your family had, had you traveled at all? Your family traveled?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.357524137789444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I joined the Peace Corps because before Kennedy ever announced the Peace Corps, I had a desire to serve and as a desire to travel. And when he announced it, it was like the perfect answer. Because I'm of that generation. I had read The Ugly American. I wanted to go out into the world and show that not all Americans were ugly and consumer oriented and disregarding of other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in a little town in western North Carolina, right at the foot of the mountains, the town of Spindale. I always said it's 70 miles west of Charlotte and 26 miles straight down from Asheville."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your family had, had you traveled at all? Your family traveled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We went to my mother's home in Virginia and back, and that was it. But both of my parents had served during World War II, and both of them sort of imbued a worldview of, you know, everybody's equal and you have to give back to the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. How old were you when you applied for the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.508360153099382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in a little town in western North Carolina, right at the foot of the mountains, the town of Spindale. I always said it's 70 miles west of Charlotte and 26 miles straight down from Asheville."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your family had, had you traveled at all? Your family traveled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We went to my mother's home in Virginia and back, and that was it. But both of my parents had served during World War II, and both of them sort of imbued a worldview of, you know, everybody's equal and you have to give back to the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. How old were you when you applied for the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at the beginning of my senior year in college and, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so, yeah, whatever that is, 20, 21."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.453733503443758, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We went to my mother's home in Virginia and back, and that was it. But both of my parents had served during World War II, and both of them sort of imbued a worldview of, you know, everybody's equal and you have to give back to the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. How old were you when you applied for the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at the beginning of my senior year in college and, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so, yeah, whatever that is, 20, 21."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I think I had just turned 20 because I didn't turn, I turned 21 in Iran. I was accepted before the end of the semester and assigned Iran. And so I went to my advisor and I switched my senior research for my second semester of my senior year from India to Iran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And what, where did you go to school?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.170815003826398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at the beginning of my senior year in college and, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so, yeah, whatever that is, 20, 21."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I think I had just turned 20 because I didn't turn, I turned 21 in Iran. I was accepted before the end of the semester and assigned Iran. And so I went to my advisor and I switched my senior research for my second semester of my senior year from India to Iran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And what, where did you go to school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the Women's College of the University of North Carolina, now the University of Greensboro."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you an international relations major or what was? Switching from India to Iran, what was that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.745350004251553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I think I had just turned 20 because I didn't turn, I turned 21 in Iran. I was accepted before the end of the semester and assigned Iran. And so I went to my advisor and I switched my senior research for my second semester of my senior year from India to Iran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And what, where did you go to school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the Women's College of the University of North Carolina, now the University of Greensboro."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you an international relations major or what was? Switching from India to Iran, what was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was history and international affairs. And I had a particular advisor and I had an independent study and that was. And, uh. So it was very easy to go to him and say, this is what's going to happen. And he was thrilled. He was a, this professor of history, was my professor for world history. And then I took other courses with him because he taught East Asia and the Middle East."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a real mentor for you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.272611115835059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the Women's College of the University of North Carolina, now the University of Greensboro."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you an international relations major or what was? Switching from India to Iran, what was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was history and international affairs. And I had a particular advisor and I had an independent study and that was. And, uh. So it was very easy to go to him and say, this is what's going to happen. And he was thrilled. He was a, this professor of history, was my professor for world history. And then I took other courses with him because he taught East Asia and the Middle East."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a real mentor for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A real mentor. And, and I, I was very much interested in Asia and the Middle East."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied for the Peace Corps and you were accepted pretty quickly, was it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.858456795372288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was history and international affairs. And I had a particular advisor and I had an independent study and that was. And, uh. So it was very easy to go to him and say, this is what's going to happen. And he was thrilled. He was a, this professor of history, was my professor for world history. And then I took other courses with him because he taught East Asia and the Middle East."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a real mentor for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A real mentor. And, and I, I was very much interested in Asia and the Middle East."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied for the Peace Corps and you were accepted pretty quickly, was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do, you got a letter saying, look, we're sending you to Iran?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.5093964393025425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A real mentor. And, and I, I was very much interested in Asia and the Middle East."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied for the Peace Corps and you were accepted pretty quickly, was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do, you got a letter saying, look, we're sending you to Iran?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got a letter saying you have been accepted, and if you accept this assignment, you'll be going to Iran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very good. So what, what did your friends think about all of this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.03629190037351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got a letter saying you have been accepted, and if you accept this assignment, you'll be going to Iran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very good. So what, what did your friends think about all of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. I had several friends in my class who also joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think we were simply of that, that generation, that that was a very exciting thing to do. If you weren't getting married immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was marriage or Peace Corps, is that it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.818102111526122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. I had several friends in my class who also joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think we were simply of that, that generation, that that was a very exciting thing to do. If you weren't getting married immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was marriage or Peace Corps, is that it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, you have to stop and think about what attitudes were. You know, I was the first person in my family to go to college. And, you know, the question was, oh, you're going to college? What are you going to teach? And I rebelled. I wasn't going to teach because I ended up spending my life teaching in one form or another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think you were going to do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.686780123917913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think we were simply of that, that generation, that that was a very exciting thing to do. If you weren't getting married immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was marriage or Peace Corps, is that it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, you have to stop and think about what attitudes were. You know, I was the first person in my family to go to college. And, you know, the question was, oh, you're going to college? What are you going to teach? And I rebelled. I wasn't going to teach because I ended up spending my life teaching in one form or another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think you were going to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't, I didn't know. I also went to college with the attitude that you get an education, you learn how to think, and then you look for the opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is what life is all about."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 9.651977915464347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, you have to stop and think about what attitudes were. You know, I was the first person in my family to go to college. And, you know, the question was, oh, you're going to college? What are you going to teach? And I rebelled. I wasn't going to teach because I ended up spending my life teaching in one form or another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think you were going to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't, I didn't know. I also went to college with the attitude that you get an education, you learn how to think, and then you look for the opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is what life is all about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where was your training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.05775323940483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't, I didn't know. I also went to college with the attitude that you get an education, you learn how to think, and then you look for the opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is what life is all about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where was your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our training was in Austin, Texas, at the University of Texas, and we spent one week in Mexico City honing our TEFL skills, our English as a second language skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you went to Austin or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.5086147104498115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where was your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our training was in Austin, Texas, at the University of Texas, and we spent one week in Mexico City honing our TEFL skills, our English as a second language skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you went to Austin or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was part of the training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.0095719004997905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our training was in Austin, Texas, at the University of Texas, and we spent one week in Mexico City honing our TEFL skills, our English as a second language skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you went to Austin or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was part of the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of our training. We loaded on busses and went from Austin to Mexico City, and that was probably one of the most realistic pieces of training that we had since we traveled all over Iran on busses. And while we were in Mexico City doing our teaching, they had a significant earthquake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.566191000555323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was part of the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of our training. We loaded on busses and went from Austin to Mexico City, and that was probably one of the most realistic pieces of training that we had since we traveled all over Iran on busses. And while we were in Mexico City doing our teaching, they had a significant earthquake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So all of us got to experience an earthquake, which we then experienced in Iran too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably hadn't planned that part of it."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.184656667283692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of our training. We loaded on busses and went from Austin to Mexico City, and that was probably one of the most realistic pieces of training that we had since we traveled all over Iran on busses. And while we were in Mexico City doing our teaching, they had a significant earthquake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So all of us got to experience an earthquake, which we then experienced in Iran too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably hadn't planned that part of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they planned that part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's not a short trip from Austin to Mexico City. That's a long bus ride."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.8718407414263245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So all of us got to experience an earthquake, which we then experienced in Iran too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably hadn't planned that part of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they planned that part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's not a short trip from Austin to Mexico City. That's a long bus ride."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a long bus ride, but it was just, you know, back then it was, it was nothing. I mean, this is just what you did. And it was a wonderful piece of the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, so talk a little bit about what the training was like. Let's start with language training."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.635378601584805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they planned that part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's not a short trip from Austin to Mexico City. That's a long bus ride."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a long bus ride, but it was just, you know, back then it was, it was nothing. I mean, this is just what you did. And it was a wonderful piece of the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, so talk a little bit about what the training was like. Let's start with language training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you learn, Farsi?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.957257532820747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you learn, Farsi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We learned Farsi and we learned by the aural-oral method where you repeat the words and try to make sense out of it. Um. And most of our trainers were Iranian students. Men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At UT?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At UT. And they pretty much stuck to the program until we were getting close to the end. Then I can remember the particular trainer I was with sitting a group of us down and he said, now these are words you need to know and they're not in your curriculum. You know, bathroom. And how do I get from here to there? And what is, what's polite and what's not polite to say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The more valuable things."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.7302861475786075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We learned Farsi and we learned by the aural-oral method where you repeat the words and try to make sense out of it. Um. And most of our trainers were Iranian students. Men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At UT?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At UT. And they pretty much stuck to the program until we were getting close to the end. Then I can remember the particular trainer I was with sitting a group of us down and he said, now these are words you need to know and they're not in your curriculum. You know, bathroom. And how do I get from here to there? And what is, what's polite and what's not polite to say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The more valuable things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really important pieces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How, how were your language skills leaving, leaving Texas?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.589206830642897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At UT. And they pretty much stuck to the program until we were getting close to the end. Then I can remember the particular trainer I was with sitting a group of us down and he said, now these are words you need to know and they're not in your curriculum. You know, bathroom. And how do I get from here to there? And what is, what's polite and what's not polite to say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The more valuable things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really important pieces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How, how were your language skills leaving, leaving Texas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, that, not wonderful. I never made it. They were adequate for me to say hello, introduce myself, and ask basic directions. I remember getting to Iran and once I had my assignment, the way things work in the classrooms there was you taught a class and then there was a break after class and everybody went to the principal's office and drank a cup of, a small cup of tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean the teachers did?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.432452034047664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really important pieces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How, how were your language skills leaving, leaving Texas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, that, not wonderful. I never made it. They were adequate for me to say hello, introduce myself, and ask basic directions. I remember getting to Iran and once I had my assignment, the way things work in the classrooms there was you taught a class and then there was a break after class and everybody went to the principal's office and drank a cup of, a small cup of tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean the teachers did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the teachers. And then you go back and teach another class and you come and drink another cup of tea. And I remember just sitting in the, with the teachers, and this waterfall of language. And one day I'm sitting there and all of a sudden I realize that everybody is ordering oranges from one of the other teachers, that he had an in at the, at the research station. And so everybody was ordering their oranges. How many kilos of oranges he was going to bring them the next day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you understood that? That's great."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.369391148941848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, that, not wonderful. I never made it. They were adequate for me to say hello, introduce myself, and ask basic directions. I remember getting to Iran and once I had my assignment, the way things work in the classrooms there was you taught a class and then there was a break after class and everybody went to the principal's office and drank a cup of, a small cup of tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean the teachers did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the teachers. And then you go back and teach another class and you come and drink another cup of tea. And I remember just sitting in the, with the teachers, and this waterfall of language. And one day I'm sitting there and all of a sudden I realize that everybody is ordering oranges from one of the other teachers, that he had an in at the, at the research station. And so everybody was ordering their oranges. How many kilos of oranges he was going to bring them the next day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you understood that? That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just all of a sudden started clicking in my head. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you order oranges as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.410434609935386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the teachers. And then you go back and teach another class and you come and drink another cup of tea. And I remember just sitting in the, with the teachers, and this waterfall of language. And one day I'm sitting there and all of a sudden I realize that everybody is ordering oranges from one of the other teachers, that he had an in at the, at the research station. And so everybody was ordering their oranges. How many kilos of oranges he was going to bring them the next day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you understood that? That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just all of a sudden started clicking in my head. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you order oranges as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. One person living alone, it's very hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So let's, let's stick with training a little bit. What was the cultural orientation like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.456038455483762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just all of a sudden started clicking in my head. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you order oranges as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. One person living alone, it's very hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So let's, let's stick with training a little bit. What was the cultural orientation like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had wonderful cultural orientation. First of all, we had the Iranian students who were good at talking to us about things. We had Richard Frye, who was incredible, sort of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was Richard Frye?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.284487172759736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. One person living alone, it's very hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So let's, let's stick with training a little bit. What was the cultural orientation like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had wonderful cultural orientation. First of all, we had the Iranian students who were good at talking to us about things. We had Richard Frye, who was incredible, sort of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was Richard Frye?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a professor who was an Iran expert. He just died a few years ago. And he brought, he came and talked to us about the culture. And we also saw the movie Grass, which is just a classic of Iran and. I thought we had very good cultural orientation, but I also already had a fairly strong background because of the research I had done my senior year. It was more a history and political paper, but you learn a lot about the culture when you start doing that. So I thought we had a strong cultural."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then had you, what was the technical training? The TEFL training."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.99319404044412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a professor who was an Iran expert. He just died a few years ago. And he brought, he came and talked to us about the culture. And we also saw the movie Grass, which is just a classic of Iran and. I thought we had very good cultural orientation, but I also already had a fairly strong background because of the research I had done my senior year. It was more a history and political paper, but you learn a lot about the culture when you start doing that. So I thought we had a strong cultural."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then had you, what was the technical training? The TEFL training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, Gertrude Nye-Dorry came over. She was the one that coordinated the program. And a lot of our technical training was in our own language training because the methods that we used to learn the Farsi were also the methods that we used to teach English. And we had the books that we would be using, the standard textbooks that were being used in Iran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For TEFL?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For TEFL, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of textbooks were those? Were those government issued?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.992437822715688, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, Gertrude Nye-Dorry came over. She was the one that coordinated the program. And a lot of our technical training was in our own language training because the methods that we used to learn the Farsi were also the methods that we used to teach English. And we had the books that we would be using, the standard textbooks that were being used in Iran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For TEFL?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For TEFL, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of textbooks were those? Were those government issued?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And they were a little bit like the Spot and Jane, but, um, very simple sentences, words that you could identify so that if you wanted to teach somebody table, what you did was you said this is a table and everybody would repeat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Point to it."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.10270869190632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For TEFL, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of textbooks were those? Were those government issued?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And they were a little bit like the Spot and Jane, but, um, very simple sentences, words that you could identify so that if you wanted to teach somebody table, what you did was you said this is a table and everybody would repeat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Point to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is a table. This is a chair."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And whom were you? This, was this an elementary school program or second year?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.225231879895912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And they were a little bit like the Spot and Jane, but, um, very simple sentences, words that you could identify so that if you wanted to teach somebody table, what you did was you said this is a table and everybody would repeat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Point to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is a table. This is a chair."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And whom were you? This, was this an elementary school program or second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was elementary and middle school. Iran had switched from French as a second language to English as a second language. And."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. So talk a little bit about your trip to Mexico City. What was that like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.13914653321768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is a table. This is a chair."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And whom were you? This, was this an elementary school program or second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was elementary and middle school. Iran had switched from French as a second language to English as a second language. And."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. So talk a little bit about your trip to Mexico City. What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very interesting. I just remember sitting on that, that bus. A couple of the guys had gotten very experimental and coming back suffered from Montezuma's revenge. We stayed in a, a hotel. I have no real memory of where we stayed. It was just. But I, uh. The schools in Mexico City went in two shifts, morning and afternoon. So half of us had morning classes and half of us had afternoon classes. And I was assigned afternoon classes. And I worked with a, a teacher. And she was very wonderful, very gracious in accepting me into her classroom and letting me practice with her students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she was an English speaker."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.154607259130755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was elementary and middle school. Iran had switched from French as a second language to English as a second language. And."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. So talk a little bit about your trip to Mexico City. What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very interesting. I just remember sitting on that, that bus. A couple of the guys had gotten very experimental and coming back suffered from Montezuma's revenge. We stayed in a, a hotel. I have no real memory of where we stayed. It was just. But I, uh. The schools in Mexico City went in two shifts, morning and afternoon. So half of us had morning classes and half of us had afternoon classes. And I was assigned afternoon classes. And I worked with a, a teacher. And she was very wonderful, very gracious in accepting me into her classroom and letting me practice with her students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she was an English speaker."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was a, yes. And she was the English teacher for that class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So was it a good bonding experience for your group as well, this field trip? To get to know people?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.282896954589727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very interesting. I just remember sitting on that, that bus. A couple of the guys had gotten very experimental and coming back suffered from Montezuma's revenge. We stayed in a, a hotel. I have no real memory of where we stayed. It was just. But I, uh. The schools in Mexico City went in two shifts, morning and afternoon. So half of us had morning classes and half of us had afternoon classes. And I was assigned afternoon classes. And I worked with a, a teacher. And she was very wonderful, very gracious in accepting me into her classroom and letting me practice with her students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she was an English speaker."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was a, yes. And she was the English teacher for that class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So was it a good bonding experience for your group as well, this field trip? To get to know people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were pretty well bonded by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were in your group, about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.536552171766363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was a, yes. And she was the English teacher for that class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So was it a good bonding experience for your group as well, this field trip? To get to know people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were pretty well bonded by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were in your group, about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think about 60, and I'm not sure how many actually went over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask how many made it through. Was there big attrition?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.929502413073736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were pretty well bonded by then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were in your group, about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think about 60, and I'm not sure how many actually went over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask how many made it through. Was there big attrition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. It wasn't huge, but it would. It would. The deselection was painful. You probably had deselection in your group too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about deselection? That's, that's a term from our era, not."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.477224903415262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think about 60, and I'm not sure how many actually went over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask how many made it through. Was there big attrition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. It wasn't huge, but it would. It would. The deselection was painful. You probably had deselection in your group too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about deselection? That's, that's a term from our era, not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a term of our era."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not from other eras."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.403981362241064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a term of our era."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not from other eras."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deselection. There was a psychologist who most of us thought was totally crazy, uh, who was supposed to determine our mental and emotional fitness to serve as volunteers. And deselection was sort of something that hung over all of us during training, and we tried to put it aside, but all of the deselection was not due to mental or emotional fitness. I mean, a few people turned up with health problems because we had, the health exams were part of training. Our inoculations. How many of us were inoculated for bubonic plague? That was the one that laid most people down on the floor when we got that shot.\n\nUm. I think the most painful selection that happened in our group was Mrs. Potter and, as near as we could tell her, her deselection was political because her son was Paul Potter, the head of SDS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And why they put her through the pain if they weren't going to let her serve, uh, because of her son's activities was just something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you don't know that, you're just surmising?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.115534846934516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deselection. There was a psychologist who most of us thought was totally crazy, uh, who was supposed to determine our mental and emotional fitness to serve as volunteers. And deselection was sort of something that hung over all of us during training, and we tried to put it aside, but all of the deselection was not due to mental or emotional fitness. I mean, a few people turned up with health problems because we had, the health exams were part of training. Our inoculations. How many of us were inoculated for bubonic plague? That was the one that laid most people down on the floor when we got that shot.\n\nUm. I think the most painful selection that happened in our group was Mrs. Potter and, as near as we could tell her, her deselection was political because her son was Paul Potter, the head of SDS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And why they put her through the pain if they weren't going to let her serve, uh, because of her son's activities was just something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you don't know that, you're just surmising?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We don't know that. But since she was in my suite of rooms, we had a pretty close. And intense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she was clearly an older volunteer."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.315475119672243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We don't know that. But since she was in my suite of rooms, we had a pretty close. And intense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she was clearly an older volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was an older volunteer. We had one older volunteer who was absolutely delightful. She had her. She was a retired English teacher from New England. Alice Finney. She was wonderful. I, my language skills never got really great because I was a teacher of English and everybody wanted to practice their English with me. From what I hear, Alice's were minimal, but they said she and the older women in her town would just chat away and she was talking. She would speak English and they would speak Farsi, and they seemed to know exactly what each other were saying all the time. She, she was beloved where she went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had the range. We had retirees, we had active professionals. One of my better, my best friends was a college professor who was taking two years off in Peace Corps. And, um, then all of us AB generalists, as we were called then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And mid-career people. Great. So you finished training, you came back from Mexico City. Was that, that was the culmination of the training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.794972355191382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was an older volunteer. We had one older volunteer who was absolutely delightful. She had her. She was a retired English teacher from New England. Alice Finney. She was wonderful. I, my language skills never got really great because I was a teacher of English and everybody wanted to practice their English with me. From what I hear, Alice's were minimal, but they said she and the older women in her town would just chat away and she was talking. She would speak English and they would speak Farsi, and they seemed to know exactly what each other were saying all the time. She, she was beloved where she went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had the range. We had retirees, we had active professionals. One of my better, my best friends was a college professor who was taking two years off in Peace Corps. And, um, then all of us AB generalists, as we were called then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And mid-career people. Great. So you finished training, you came back from Mexico City. Was that, that was the culmination of the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, we had another week or so after that. That was when they set us down and said, these are what you need to know. Don't go without these words. And then we had a break to go home and pack, and then we all got ourselves to New York City and from there to JFK and off we went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And off you went, and you flew. How did, how did one go to Iran in those days? Air what?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.327747061323757, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had the range. We had retirees, we had active professionals. One of my better, my best friends was a college professor who was taking two years off in Peace Corps. And, um, then all of us AB generalists, as we were called then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And mid-career people. Great. So you finished training, you came back from Mexico City. Was that, that was the culmination of the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, we had another week or so after that. That was when they set us down and said, these are what you need to know. Don't go without these words. And then we had a break to go home and pack, and then we all got ourselves to New York City and from there to JFK and off we went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And off you went, and you flew. How did, how did one go to Iran in those days? Air what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pan Am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, Pan Am from New York to Iran direct or did you to go via Europe somewhere?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.697496734804174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, we had another week or so after that. That was when they set us down and said, these are what you need to know. Don't go without these words. And then we had a break to go home and pack, and then we all got ourselves to New York City and from there to JFK and off we went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And off you went, and you flew. How did, how did one go to Iran in those days? Air what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pan Am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, Pan Am from New York to Iran direct or did you to go via Europe somewhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we weren't allowed out of the airport, but we stopped at Orly. We stopped in Rome and we stopped in Lebanon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, a long trip."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.219440816449081, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pan Am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, Pan Am from New York to Iran direct or did you to go via Europe somewhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we weren't allowed out of the airport, but we stopped at Orly. We stopped in Rome and we stopped in Lebanon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, a long trip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we were allowed to walk out of the plane and walk back on. You didn't go outside the gate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so you got to Iran. Where did you fly to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.688267573832313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we weren't allowed out of the airport, but we stopped at Orly. We stopped in Rome and we stopped in Lebanon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, a long trip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we were allowed to walk out of the plane and walk back on. You didn't go outside the gate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so you got to Iran. Where did you fly to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew to Tehran, and I think we had about a week in Tehran, as, uh, with some orientation there until we were sent out on our assignments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your impression of Tehran?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 16.89909577016335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew to Tehran, and I think we had about a week in Tehran, as, uh, with some orientation there until we were sent out on our assignments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your impression of Tehran?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hot and dry. I just, I don't really. That's sort of the blur in my memory. I don't have a strong memory of that week. It was just, we're here. It's exciting. We'll try a little few of our words here and there. You know, this is the Peace Corps office. These are your field officers, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And of course, we all had jet lag and everything else. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where were you assigned?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.11010641129261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hot and dry. I just, I don't really. That's sort of the blur in my memory. I don't have a strong memory of that week. It was just, we're here. It's exciting. We'll try a little few of our words here and there. You know, this is the Peace Corps office. These are your field officers, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And of course, we all had jet lag and everything else. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where were you assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was assigned to Nowshahr, which is directly north of Tehran on the Caspian Sea, and it's 100 feet below sea level. And when I was initially deposited, I was housed with a volunteer from Norway who was actually a Yugoslavian forestry volunteer. And she was in the, she was living in a compound at the Forestry Research Center. And it was really a very good initial thing. We got along well and she had already figured out a lot of the things about living, so that helped me a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the first Peace Corps volunteer in this town?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.455673790325122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And of course, we all had jet lag and everything else. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where were you assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was assigned to Nowshahr, which is directly north of Tehran on the Caspian Sea, and it's 100 feet below sea level. And when I was initially deposited, I was housed with a volunteer from Norway who was actually a Yugoslavian forestry volunteer. And she was in the, she was living in a compound at the Forestry Research Center. And it was really a very good initial thing. We got along well and she had already figured out a lot of the things about living, so that helped me a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the first Peace Corps volunteer in this town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, and she had been stationed, how had she been stationed there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.044041716450767, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, and she had been stationed, how had she been stationed there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She had gotten there like a month before I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, it was a Norwegian program that had to do with forestry and, um. That was, that lasted about six weeks or so. And then the forestry department realized that they had an education department person living on their property, and that was a no-no. So then I was placed in a house by myself, and that was really an extraordinarily difficult situation. Um, I coped. I had made friends with the English teachers. We were assigned not to teach, but to help the English teachers, uh, improve their English and to, you know, bring this these new books and new methods up. And so basically, I went to class with the English teacher, listened to their lessons. We talked and sometimes, you know, I did the English practice with the students. And then I also organized an adult English class, which was men, and it was in the early evening. They were basically shopkeepers who wanted to improve their English for tourists. And the chief of police."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so you said it was really difficult being placed by yourself."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.382268573834185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She had gotten there like a month before I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, it was a Norwegian program that had to do with forestry and, um. That was, that lasted about six weeks or so. And then the forestry department realized that they had an education department person living on their property, and that was a no-no. So then I was placed in a house by myself, and that was really an extraordinarily difficult situation. Um, I coped. I had made friends with the English teachers. We were assigned not to teach, but to help the English teachers, uh, improve their English and to, you know, bring this these new books and new methods up. And so basically, I went to class with the English teacher, listened to their lessons. We talked and sometimes, you know, I did the English practice with the students. And then I also organized an adult English class, which was men, and it was in the early evening. They were basically shopkeepers who wanted to improve their English for tourists. And the chief of police."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so you said it was really difficult being placed by yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that because you hadn't lived alone before, or what was difficult about it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.20252063759354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, it was a Norwegian program that had to do with forestry and, um. That was, that lasted about six weeks or so. And then the forestry department realized that they had an education department person living on their property, and that was a no-no. So then I was placed in a house by myself, and that was really an extraordinarily difficult situation. Um, I coped. I had made friends with the English teachers. We were assigned not to teach, but to help the English teachers, uh, improve their English and to, you know, bring this these new books and new methods up. And so basically, I went to class with the English teacher, listened to their lessons. We talked and sometimes, you know, I did the English practice with the students. And then I also organized an adult English class, which was men, and it was in the early evening. They were basically shopkeepers who wanted to improve their English for tourists. And the chief of police."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so you said it was really difficult being placed by yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that because you hadn't lived alone before, or what was difficult about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was true that I hadn't lived alone before. What was difficult about it is I was working in two towns. I was assigned to both Nowshahr and Chalus. So every other day I, you know, we worked six days a week. So I did three days in Chalus and three days in Nowshahr. And it was an every other day type of thing, where I took the, the carrier, the, a VW bus that carried 20 people between the towns. And I was doing all my own shopping. I had a single burner kerosene Aladdin heater for my cooking. I had a well. I was trying to do all my own laundry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have electricity?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.892000787152519, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was true that I hadn't lived alone before. What was difficult about it is I was working in two towns. I was assigned to both Nowshahr and Chalus. So every other day I, you know, we worked six days a week. So I did three days in Chalus and three days in Nowshahr. And it was an every other day type of thing, where I took the, the carrier, the, a VW bus that carried 20 people between the towns. And I was doing all my own shopping. I had a single burner kerosene Aladdin heater for my cooking. I had a well. I was trying to do all my own laundry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had electricity when it was working. I had a single 75 watt bulb in each room and I had an outlet. And electricity was an off and on thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had water in the house?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.88000087461391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had electricity when it was working. I had a single 75 watt bulb in each room and I had an outlet. And electricity was an off and on thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had water in the house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I had a well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, a well outside."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.197531943967789, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I had a well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, a well outside."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my well was fine until the cat fell in and died or whatever. Fell in and died and contaminated the well. And then I had to carry water from the river. Um. The biggest part of living alone is you don't have a mentor, you don't have somebody. So when a bunch of the teenagers came and wanted me to go bicycling with them, I didn't have any quick ready reference because it was something that didn't get covered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, and I didn't have anybody that I could ask quickly, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this a good idea? Right."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.132755486379985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, and I didn't have anybody that I could ask quickly, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this a good idea? Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, am I going to create all kinds of problems if I do this? And I had an incident where it was a holiday and I was trying to do laundry, and one of the teachers and his whole family came to visit, which is, you know, a typical kind of thing. You go to visit people to show them that. And here I was out in the yard with this, it was called a hose. It's a, it's a little tank that you put water in and it looks like a little square pond and trying to wash sheets and hanging them on my wall that surrounded my house.\n\nSo that, that is a difficult kind of, of life when you have, when you have no one to. I mean, friends. I had friends, they had me over, but it was a very formal type of relationship. And, uh, I remember going after a few months to visit one of my Peace Corps friends down the coast, and she finally said to me, Jeanette, you've been here 8 hours and you haven't shut up, because it was just all pouring out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it's a level of loneliness that you learn a lot about yourself. It was a very great growing experience. I read all 300 books in my book locker. That's because you didn't go out at night. You didn't go out after sundown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why was that? Just people didn't do it or was it dangerous?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.03639498486665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, am I going to create all kinds of problems if I do this? And I had an incident where it was a holiday and I was trying to do laundry, and one of the teachers and his whole family came to visit, which is, you know, a typical kind of thing. You go to visit people to show them that. And here I was out in the yard with this, it was called a hose. It's a, it's a little tank that you put water in and it looks like a little square pond and trying to wash sheets and hanging them on my wall that surrounded my house.\n\nSo that, that is a difficult kind of, of life when you have, when you have no one to. I mean, friends. I had friends, they had me over, but it was a very formal type of relationship. And, uh, I remember going after a few months to visit one of my Peace Corps friends down the coast, and she finally said to me, Jeanette, you've been here 8 hours and you haven't shut up, because it was just all pouring out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it's a level of loneliness that you learn a lot about yourself. It was a very great growing experience. I read all 300 books in my book locker. That's because you didn't go out at night. You didn't go out after sundown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why was that? Just people didn't do it or was it dangerous?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "People didn't do it. And you don't put yourself in, at risk. There were no streetlights. You know, you went home into your compound and that was the end of the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But were people generally friendly to you or was it really?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.707105538740723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it's a level of loneliness that you learn a lot about yourself. It was a very great growing experience. I read all 300 books in my book locker. That's because you didn't go out at night. You didn't go out after sundown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why was that? Just people didn't do it or was it dangerous?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "People didn't do it. And you don't put yourself in, at risk. There were no streetlights. You know, you went home into your compound and that was the end of the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But were people generally friendly to you or was it really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "People were very friendly. And one of the best books they gave us in training was a book called The Silent Language. Because, um, we have a distance, you and I are sitting, oh, about a yard apart. And this is a comfortable distance for us to speak to each other. In Iran, the personal distance is much shorter, and until you realize what you're doing, they are usually within a foot to 18 inches for a conversation. And I can remember backing into a wall and then having that aha moment. Aha! This is what the book said. This is the difference between my personal space and their personal space.\n\nAnd that book is, it's an excellent book even now, because to read the things that people say with their bodies instead of with their words. Not necessarily even facial expressions, but things like comfort. I've got my legs crossed. This is a comfort sign, that I'm comfortable in your presence. And so that was another piece of really lifelong value out of my Peace Corps training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, so what, what, did you visit people's houses or they came to visit you? Was it mostly with women?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.947043874988546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People were very friendly. And one of the best books they gave us in training was a book called The Silent Language. Because, um, we have a distance, you and I are sitting, oh, about a yard apart. And this is a comfortable distance for us to speak to each other. In Iran, the personal distance is much shorter, and until you realize what you're doing, they are usually within a foot to 18 inches for a conversation. And I can remember backing into a wall and then having that aha moment. Aha! This is what the book said. This is the difference between my personal space and their personal space.\n\nAnd that book is, it's an excellent book even now, because to read the things that people say with their bodies instead of with their words. Not necessarily even facial expressions, but things like comfort. I've got my legs crossed. This is a comfort sign, that I'm comfortable in your presence. And so that was another piece of really lifelong value out of my Peace Corps training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, so what, what, did you visit people's houses or they came to visit you? Was it mostly with women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I visited, I visited people's houses. They invited me. Students invited me to meet their families. The English teachers, one of them, I got particularly close to her family and spent quite a lot of time with them. In fact, when they went on a trip, they asked me to come stay in the house and babysit the grandmother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, that was a phenomenal experience because this was a woman who was married to a subchief of the Bakhtiari tribe, and she was telling me all about living under Reza Shah, the, the father of the Shah that was in power when we were there. And camping in the desert and, and, you know, coping with scorpions and just an absolutely fascinating kind of thing. She taught me how to roll cigarettes too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is also a lifelong skill, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.49671541665394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I visited, I visited people's houses. They invited me. Students invited me to meet their families. The English teachers, one of them, I got particularly close to her family and spent quite a lot of time with them. In fact, when they went on a trip, they asked me to come stay in the house and babysit the grandmother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, that was a phenomenal experience because this was a woman who was married to a subchief of the Bakhtiari tribe, and she was telling me all about living under Reza Shah, the, the father of the Shah that was in power when we were there. And camping in the desert and, and, you know, coping with scorpions and just an absolutely fascinating kind of thing. She taught me how to roll cigarettes too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is also a lifelong skill, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's one that, it's one that I parked and decided we didn't need that one. But that was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. An opportunity to meet someone like that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.107461574059933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, that was a phenomenal experience because this was a woman who was married to a subchief of the Bakhtiari tribe, and she was telling me all about living under Reza Shah, the, the father of the Shah that was in power when we were there. And camping in the desert and, and, you know, coping with scorpions and just an absolutely fascinating kind of thing. She taught me how to roll cigarettes too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is also a lifelong skill, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's one that, it's one that I parked and decided we didn't need that one. But that was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. An opportunity to meet someone like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. And some of my best memories in terms of people. This was a family. I was close enough that they allowed me to go out to the, it's, they had a separate house for cooking. You didn't cook in your main house generally. So I would go out with their bagi and that's how I learned to. She taught me how to cook."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is the bagi?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.786068415622148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's one that, it's one that I parked and decided we didn't need that one. But that was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. An opportunity to meet someone like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. And some of my best memories in terms of people. This was a family. I was close enough that they allowed me to go out to the, it's, they had a separate house for cooking. You didn't cook in your main house generally. So I would go out with their bagi and that's how I learned to. She taught me how to cook."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is the bagi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A bagi is sort of a maid of all work. Does cooking and laundry. Some of them lived in. Most of them were day workers. And that was another issue. I should have had a bagi but I didn't really know how to go about hiring a bagi. And I had a teenage girl offer to be my bagi, but if I had hired her, she would have dropped out of school. Now, it might have been a good thing, but once again, I didn't have a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Somebody to ask."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.143294340274256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A bagi is sort of a maid of all work. Does cooking and laundry. Some of them lived in. Most of them were day workers. And that was another issue. I should have had a bagi but I didn't really know how to go about hiring a bagi. And I had a teenage girl offer to be my bagi, but if I had hired her, she would have dropped out of school. Now, it might have been a good thing, but once again, I didn't have a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Somebody to ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And even my friends. Just an example of not, of the cultural issues. You went to a public bath, to the hammam, to take a bath because you didn't have bathing facilities in the homes. And those were words we didn't get in training. So I went to my English friend, my friend, and I said, what do I say when I go to the hammam? And they said, you go to the hammam. And I said, what are the words in Farsi that I need? You just go. Well, I knew I was going to be dealing with people who had no English at all, and I was trying to find out what, what were the proper phrases to use. And they finally said, well, you ask for a room. Aha. This is what I needed to know. This was the word, the set of words I needed. [speaks Farsi] I want, I want a room. And then I said, well, what happens in the hammam? You know, because I had never been in one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But to them, it was such a common thing. It was like, why is she asking these questions, you know? So a lot of times trying to find, find out what was appropriate was a, an interesting challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that experience going by yourself to the hammam?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.833051221226689, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the first time I was very timid. I was very tentative about it, and then I became very comfortable with it. And I had a chador made. I didn't wear it all the time. My modern, uh, my up-to- date friends, Iranian women, the only time they wore a chador was when they were coming back from the hammam because it covered up their wet hair and they could, they could put on some loose, comfortable clothing. One of the other things that occurred to me early on in Iran. In the sixties, and I went to a woman's school, so we were not allowed to wear pants on front campus. We always had to wear skirts, and all of us had our London Fog raincoats.\n\nAnd if you wanted to wear your jeans across front campus, you simply rolled them up to your knees and threw your London Fog raincoat on. If you wanted to wear your pajamas to breakfast, which was not allowed, you threw your London Fog raincoat over your pajamas and it covered up the world. And I got to Iran and everybody's going about how oppressed these Iranian women are having to wear their chadors. And I looked around at what they were wearing under their chadors, and I said, ah, London Fog raincoat. I mean, it, the more modern, the professional women tended to wear skirts, blouses, sweaters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Long skirts? Or just regular?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Moderately long. Not, not to the ankles, but they wore hose. Miniskirts were just coming in in this country. I did not take anything that did not come below my knees. Many of them wore scarves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Head scarves?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Head scarves, but not the hijab. They wore head scarves the same way we wore head scarves in this country in the fifties and early sixties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you wear a headscarf there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.744507680526776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Head scarves, but not the hijab. They wore head scarves the same way we wore head scarves in this country in the fifties and early sixties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you wear a headscarf there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Frequently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not required?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not required. But I wore it to certain places, you know, when I was in the vicinity of a mosque or something. I always wore a headscarf just the same way that women who go into Catholic churches put those little lacy things on their heads. It's a lot of what we view as foreign is a matter of stepping back and trying to see it in terms of the context of where we came from. It's a little like women don't wear hats now, but I can remember when my mother never went out without putting on a hat and she had several hats. Women wore hats. Women wore gloves when they went out in the fifties. We don't wear gloves anymore.\n\nSo a lot of customs, we say we don't do things like that. You sit down and think about it, we do. We have lots of these little unwritten laws and customs that are there. They had something in Iran called parti. And it's, and it was like, oh, how awful. You have to have parti to get a visa. You have to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is parti?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.136498875894067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, parti is basically who do you know? You have to know somebody. And it's like, yeah, if you want to get something done, it helps to know somebody. It's, it's a little more formal there. It's a little more out in the open. We have a lot of the same things. We just don't, we're not as open about it. It's not as formalized.\n\nThere's taarof in Iran, and taarof is a, it's a system of manners. And it's, if somebody offers you something, they have to offer it to you three times in order for you to know that it's a sincere offer. Um. And. We have, we just don't acknowledge it as the same. But if somebody says, oh, let's get together, and you say, sure, you know that that's not real. It's not until you do something more concrete. Or drop by my house any time. Those are, that's, that's what taarof is about. But it's just a little more formalized than what we do here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were, you are in an all girls school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a nearby boys school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I actually was invited to the boys school too, as a guest for the English classes to come in and talk and speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it always separate?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.70722097321563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a nearby boys school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I actually was invited to the boys school too, as a guest for the English classes to come in and talk and speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it always separate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gender separate education. At all levels?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.341356636906256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I actually was invited to the boys school too, as a guest for the English classes to come in and talk and speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it always separate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gender separate education. At all levels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The very youngest children were in mixed classes, but basically, uh, you know, like kindergarten. But then once they got into school, it was separate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, talk a little bit more about just the gender roles in the community. Were they, were they very separately defined? I mean, we think of Iran as having these very strict rules. Was that the case in the sixties as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2485884406250065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The very youngest children were in mixed classes, but basically, uh, you know, like kindergarten. But then once they got into school, it was separate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, talk a little bit more about just the gender roles in the community. Were they, were they very separately defined? I mean, we think of Iran as having these very strict rules. Was that the case in the sixties as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Uh. Women were basically expected to have a male member of their family go with them. And that was one of the things that made me an anomaly. Questions. And the town, the small town I was in the first year, and I did transfer after my first year. The people got together and they said, you know, you're here by yourself. There were two ag volunteers, and occasionally they would come to my house. And they said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Male?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Men. And they said, these are your brothers, because they come from the same place that you come from and your family couldn't come with you. So they assigned them the roles of my brothers, and my field officer was assigned the role of my father by the town. And so when my field officer came to visit, the kids would come running down the kucheh saying, your father is here, your father is here! And my field officer got a great kick out of that because Bernie was Black. But he was assigned the role of my father coming to visit me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when they were not around, or your brothers, were you able to go places?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.720653822916674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Uh. Women were basically expected to have a male member of their family go with them. And that was one of the things that made me an anomaly. Questions. And the town, the small town I was in the first year, and I did transfer after my first year. The people got together and they said, you know, you're here by yourself. There were two ag volunteers, and occasionally they would come to my house. And they said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Male?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Men. And they said, these are your brothers, because they come from the same place that you come from and your family couldn't come with you. So they assigned them the roles of my brothers, and my field officer was assigned the role of my father by the town. And so when my field officer came to visit, the kids would come running down the kucheh saying, your father is here, your father is here! And my field officer got a great kick out of that because Bernie was Black. But he was assigned the role of my father coming to visit me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when they were not around, or your brothers, were you able to go places?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And men felt comfortable, the Iranian men? Did they have a problem with that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.24517091435186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Men. And they said, these are your brothers, because they come from the same place that you come from and your family couldn't come with you. So they assigned them the roles of my brothers, and my field officer was assigned the role of my father by the town. And so when my field officer came to visit, the kids would come running down the kucheh saying, your father is here, your father is here! And my field officer got a great kick out of that because Bernie was Black. But he was assigned the role of my father coming to visit me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when they were not around, or your brothers, were you able to go places?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And men felt comfortable, the Iranian men? Did they have a problem with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, no one seemed to have a problem with it. They, they accepted me very readily. And, um, you know, I basically talked to shopkeepers on the street. I had a. You know, it didn't really bother me. One of the things I realized from when I was living by myself and I could listen to the conversations across the wall, because the walls of the houses run together or across the kucheh is that the women ruled inside the walls. They may have walked behind their husbands outside the walls, and he may have come home and been king of the roost. But he better bring the money home. And it was very much a female dominated inside the walls kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't learn that until you get close."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.827967682613178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And men felt comfortable, the Iranian men? Did they have a problem with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, no one seemed to have a problem with it. They, they accepted me very readily. And, um, you know, I basically talked to shopkeepers on the street. I had a. You know, it didn't really bother me. One of the things I realized from when I was living by myself and I could listen to the conversations across the wall, because the walls of the houses run together or across the kucheh is that the women ruled inside the walls. They may have walked behind their husbands outside the walls, and he may have come home and been king of the roost. But he better bring the money home. And it was very much a female dominated inside the walls kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't learn that until you get close."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. You have to get close to see that that, that, you know, the public face is always male. And there are many restrictions on the women. But they have a lot of power once they get behind the walls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything memorable about your teaching experiences? In this first town. I guess we'll talk about the second in a moment."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.475519647347975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, no one seemed to have a problem with it. They, they accepted me very readily. And, um, you know, I basically talked to shopkeepers on the street. I had a. You know, it didn't really bother me. One of the things I realized from when I was living by myself and I could listen to the conversations across the wall, because the walls of the houses run together or across the kucheh is that the women ruled inside the walls. They may have walked behind their husbands outside the walls, and he may have come home and been king of the roost. But he better bring the money home. And it was very much a female dominated inside the walls kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't learn that until you get close."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. You have to get close to see that that, that, you know, the public face is always male. And there are many restrictions on the women. But they have a lot of power once they get behind the walls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything memorable about your teaching experiences? In this first town. I guess we'll talk about the second in a moment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, the teaching experiences with the students and the classrooms were very routine, and because I was working with teachers as opposed to teaching myself, that was not very. Uh. There aren't a lot of memorable things. The things that are memorable is that I started a crafts club. I did a summer day camp type of program, uh, for the girls where we practiced our English and we did sort of crafts. They were better craftsmen than I, but it was just fun to, I got them together and we spoke English and did things, made things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got closer to them that way."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.972799608164416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. You have to get close to see that that, that, you know, the public face is always male. And there are many restrictions on the women. But they have a lot of power once they get behind the walls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything memorable about your teaching experiences? In this first town. I guess we'll talk about the second in a moment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, the teaching experiences with the students and the classrooms were very routine, and because I was working with teachers as opposed to teaching myself, that was not very. Uh. There aren't a lot of memorable things. The things that are memorable is that I started a crafts club. I did a summer day camp type of program, uh, for the girls where we practiced our English and we did sort of crafts. They were better craftsmen than I, but it was just fun to, I got them together and we spoke English and did things, made things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got closer to them that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then I had an adult class at the big hotel in Chalus. It was at the end of the Tehran or the jasmine Chalus Road, which is, goes over the mountains. It's, it's quite an exciting road to travel, zigzags all the way. And that was a really interesting English class because these were people who dealt with foreign tourists. And most of the people that I had were their waitstaff, and they were trying to learn English words for foods. So we're going out in their garden and trying to identify the foods. So it was a very stretching experience for me because here I was with my English Farsi and my Farsi English as well as everything I could find on botany, because I grew up in western North Carolina. I didn't know what a Jerusalem artichoke was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The harder you learn the English as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.525332897960462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, the teaching experiences with the students and the classrooms were very routine, and because I was working with teachers as opposed to teaching myself, that was not very. Uh. There aren't a lot of memorable things. The things that are memorable is that I started a crafts club. I did a summer day camp type of program, uh, for the girls where we practiced our English and we did sort of crafts. They were better craftsmen than I, but it was just fun to, I got them together and we spoke English and did things, made things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got closer to them that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then I had an adult class at the big hotel in Chalus. It was at the end of the Tehran or the jasmine Chalus Road, which is, goes over the mountains. It's, it's quite an exciting road to travel, zigzags all the way. And that was a really interesting English class because these were people who dealt with foreign tourists. And most of the people that I had were their waitstaff, and they were trying to learn English words for foods. So we're going out in their garden and trying to identify the foods. So it was a very stretching experience for me because here I was with my English Farsi and my Farsi English as well as everything I could find on botany, because I grew up in western North Carolina. I didn't know what a Jerusalem artichoke was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The harder you learn the English as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I learned a whole lot, you know. And then it was, they took me down to the kitchens and showed me how they prepared the, the sturgeon. And so it was a wonderful learning experience. But it was a real challenge. And I can remember asparagus was like one of the hardest words for them to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's hard to pronounce, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.139258775511625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then I had an adult class at the big hotel in Chalus. It was at the end of the Tehran or the jasmine Chalus Road, which is, goes over the mountains. It's, it's quite an exciting road to travel, zigzags all the way. And that was a really interesting English class because these were people who dealt with foreign tourists. And most of the people that I had were their waitstaff, and they were trying to learn English words for foods. So we're going out in their garden and trying to identify the foods. So it was a very stretching experience for me because here I was with my English Farsi and my Farsi English as well as everything I could find on botany, because I grew up in western North Carolina. I didn't know what a Jerusalem artichoke was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The harder you learn the English as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I learned a whole lot, you know. And then it was, they took me down to the kitchens and showed me how they prepared the, the sturgeon. And so it was a wonderful learning experience. But it was a real challenge. And I can remember asparagus was like one of the hardest words for them to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's hard to pronounce, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how big was this town and how many, did lots of tourists come there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.110196019150153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how big was this town and how many, did lots of tourists come there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was right on the coast. Um. It was not as big a tourist area as some of the places further down which had beautiful beaches like Babol. And Nowshahr was about 4,000. Chalus was in the same, same range. They were, they were relatively small towns with a lot of agriculture. They grew rice and oranges at 100 feet below sea level and on the latitude almost of Labrador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We don't think about that. Tehran's on the latitude of New York City. We think of it as being some way out there in the south and all that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That far north."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.677995576833503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was right on the coast. Um. It was not as big a tourist area as some of the places further down which had beautiful beaches like Babol. And Nowshahr was about 4,000. Chalus was in the same, same range. They were, they were relatively small towns with a lot of agriculture. They grew rice and oranges at 100 feet below sea level and on the latitude almost of Labrador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We don't think about that. Tehran's on the latitude of New York City. We think of it as being some way out there in the south and all that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That far north."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it's just the orientation and, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But yet they were able to grow oranges?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.308883974259447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We don't think about that. Tehran's on the latitude of New York City. We think of it as being some way out there in the south and all that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That far north."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it's just the orientation and, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But yet they were able to grow oranges?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's 100 feet below sea level, so it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's warmer."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0850419435301815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's 100 feet below sea level, so it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's warmer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And, um. That particular class. Well, actually, the adult classes were very open with me because I had Baha'is and Jews and Zoroastrians, and they talked to me about the fact that they were different. And maybe it was because I was different that people opened up and told me about being different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had two friends who were nurses and they, they lived at the hospital in Chalus and once again, these were two young women and they were there without their family. So they lived in the hospital compound. And when one of them left, the other one and I would get together regularly. And when I talked to you about loneliness, she was so lonely that she made pets out of the mice in the wall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what nationality was she?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.538935492811312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And, um. That particular class. Well, actually, the adult classes were very open with me because I had Baha'is and Jews and Zoroastrians, and they talked to me about the fact that they were different. And maybe it was because I was different that people opened up and told me about being different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had two friends who were nurses and they, they lived at the hospital in Chalus and once again, these were two young women and they were there without their family. So they lived in the hospital compound. And when one of them left, the other one and I would get together regularly. And when I talked to you about loneliness, she was so lonely that she made pets out of the mice in the wall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what nationality was she?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was Iranian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was Iranian."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.043261658679236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had two friends who were nurses and they, they lived at the hospital in Chalus and once again, these were two young women and they were there without their family. So they lived in the hospital compound. And when one of them left, the other one and I would get together regularly. And when I talked to you about loneliness, she was so lonely that she made pets out of the mice in the wall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what nationality was she?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was Iranian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was Iranian."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But she, she fed the mice and had a whole mouse family that was in the wall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's kind of sad."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.603624065199151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was Iranian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was Iranian."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But she, she fed the mice and had a whole mouse family that was in the wall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's kind of sad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. But, uh. And she basically did her job. But she was confined to the hospital compound because she didn't have her family there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because she couldn't go out without men?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.918054401480433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. But, uh. And she basically did her job. But she was confined to the hospital compound because she didn't have her family there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because she couldn't go out without men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So I guess I was just a little bit more daring and I just went. I like I said, I have many wonderful memories of my time in Nowshahr and Chalus, but I realized that, uh, I was having issues with coping with being alone and also coping with the fact that at 100 feet were sea level, you have very little sunshine. It's always moist and damp and rainy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had, I had exciting experiences. I have a wonderful story that I like to tell about making, trying to make cream puffs at 100 feet below sea level. We succeeded, but it was a challenging experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It needs more, uh, what is that called? Of tartar or whatever? Cream of tartar?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.353393779422703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So I guess I was just a little bit more daring and I just went. I like I said, I have many wonderful memories of my time in Nowshahr and Chalus, but I realized that, uh, I was having issues with coping with being alone and also coping with the fact that at 100 feet were sea level, you have very little sunshine. It's always moist and damp and rainy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had, I had exciting experiences. I have a wonderful story that I like to tell about making, trying to make cream puffs at 100 feet below sea level. We succeeded, but it was a challenging experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It needs more, uh, what is that called? Of tartar or whatever? Cream of tartar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know enough. I had never had a cream puff in my life. So this was not part of my cuisine growing up. And, uh, but they decided that since I was an American and they had an American cookbook and they loved cream puffs, that surely I could make cream puffs. And this is where you get into the challenges. First of all, it was a Good Housekeeping cookbook. None of their measurements are in cups and ounces, so all of it had to be converted to metric. The stove was in Centigrade, not in Fahrenheit, so we had to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It became a math problem."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.263517420244936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That has been set. While we are waiting for the cream puffs to bake, he then tells me about his introduction to the House of Strength, which is a gymnastics. It's sort of a. It's a, it's a big macho man thing, I guess. And then they bake. He takes the tray again, hops on his bicycle, goes back. We run, all run back to the other house. Open them up. Take the inside out. Make the cream. Put it in. He's sent to get the husbands from work because we've got the cream puffs right here. And the husbands come home from work and we all sit down and have tea and cream puffs before they collapse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a wonderful story. That's really. It takes a village to, to make cream puffs. Right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was one of those, oh, you're an American. You can do this. Huh?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever made a cream puff since?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.84835268916104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was one of those, oh, you're an American. You can do this. Huh?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever made a cream puff since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they any good?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.109077394025975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they any good?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were wonderful. They were really delicious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had to be with all the work we put into it. I transferred to Hamadan after the first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At your request?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.787863771139971, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were wonderful. They were really delicious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had to be with all the work we put into it. I transferred to Hamadan after the first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At your request?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At my request. Part of it was there were two girls schools. There were at least six boys schools, and the high schools. And the reality was a male English teacher was, had, would have much more impact in terms of the education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you taught and you worked in a male, in a boys school then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.54207085682219, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had to be with all the work we put into it. I transferred to Hamadan after the first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At your request?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At my request. Part of it was there were two girls schools. There were at least six boys schools, and the high schools. And the reality was a male English teacher was, had, would have much more impact in terms of the education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you taught and you worked in a male, in a boys school then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, no, I didn't. I, I went as a guest on occasion to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so in Hamadan you were in a girls school as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.31119858866937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, no, I didn't. I, I went as a guest on occasion to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so in Hamadan you were in a girls school as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was also in a girls school. I have one more story from Nowshahr that's, if you have time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was invited to the boys high school to give my lecture or to practice English with them, we did this thing where you go to the principal's office and drink your tea. Well, each of the schools had a religious teacher, an imam, or a mullah. And so we're in the principal's office at the boys high school. And there were a couple of women teachers there, more traditional. And the mullah would say to the English teacher, ask her where she comes from. And I would answer in Farsi, and then the English teacher would have to repeat my Farsi because the mullah pretended he didn't understand my Farsi. So we had this wonderful three way conversation. Ask her. I would answer in Farsi, and the English teacher would repeat my Farsi. And there we'd go again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think he really didn't understand or he didn't want to deal with a?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.345776209632634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was also in a girls school. I have one more story from Nowshahr that's, if you have time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was invited to the boys high school to give my lecture or to practice English with them, we did this thing where you go to the principal's office and drink your tea. Well, each of the schools had a religious teacher, an imam, or a mullah. And so we're in the principal's office at the boys high school. And there were a couple of women teachers there, more traditional. And the mullah would say to the English teacher, ask her where she comes from. And I would answer in Farsi, and then the English teacher would have to repeat my Farsi because the mullah pretended he didn't understand my Farsi. So we had this wonderful three way conversation. Ask her. I would answer in Farsi, and the English teacher would repeat my Farsi. And there we'd go again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think he really didn't understand or he didn't want to deal with a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't want to deal directly with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With you. And the teacher was a female or male?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.495306899591816, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was invited to the boys high school to give my lecture or to practice English with them, we did this thing where you go to the principal's office and drink your tea. Well, each of the schools had a religious teacher, an imam, or a mullah. And so we're in the principal's office at the boys high school. And there were a couple of women teachers there, more traditional. And the mullah would say to the English teacher, ask her where she comes from. And I would answer in Farsi, and then the English teacher would have to repeat my Farsi because the mullah pretended he didn't understand my Farsi. So we had this wonderful three way conversation. Ask her. I would answer in Farsi, and the English teacher would repeat my Farsi. And there we'd go again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think he really didn't understand or he didn't want to deal with a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't want to deal directly with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With you. And the teacher was a female or male?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Male."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Male. Were you ever challenged because of your religion?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.772563221768683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't want to deal directly with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With you. And the teacher was a female or male?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Male."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Male. Were you ever challenged because of your religion?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nobody talked about that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.080625801965203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Male."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Male. Were you ever challenged because of your religion?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nobody talked about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nobody. They wanted to marry me off to, everybody wanted, thought I should be married. I mean, this was typical. I finally got around that by telling them they had to find me somebody who was over six feet tall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And nobody in town."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.037809632055806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nobody. They wanted to marry me off to, everybody wanted, thought I should be married. I mean, this was typical. I finally got around that by telling them they had to find me somebody who was over six feet tall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And nobody in town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There weren't any people over six feet tall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That way they weren't offended. It wasn't, I don't like your people. I need, I just need somebody who's six feet tall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's great. So talk about the second town and the."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.708677368950895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There weren't any people over six feet tall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That way they weren't offended. It wasn't, I don't like your people. I need, I just need somebody who's six feet tall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's great. So talk about the second town and the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. I went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The school you went to."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.231863743278774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That way they weren't offended. It wasn't, I don't like your people. I need, I just need somebody who's six feet tall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's great. So talk about the second town and the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. I went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The school you went to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hamadan. And Hamadan is 6,000 feet above sea level. So I went from 100 feet below sea level to 6,000 feet above sea level. In Hamadan, I lived with another Peace Corps volunteer. We lived in a family compound. We had a bagi that was shared, the various Peace Corps volunteers, and there were several of us in that town. Plus there was a Scottish Presbyterian hospital there. And. So we had a bagi that we shared. And that way we could afford to pay her. She worked for us one day and then she would work for the guys one day. And it worked out well.\n\nAnd they had a shortage of English teachers. So I ended up teaching my own classes and they were middle school age girls. I had classes of 65 students. And the. One day I got really frustrated and I kicked 15 kids out of class, which is like the ultimate punishment because they have to go stand outside in the courtyard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were they doing to deserve that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 16.924293048087527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. I went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The school you went to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hamadan. And Hamadan is 6,000 feet above sea level. So I went from 100 feet below sea level to 6,000 feet above sea level. In Hamadan, I lived with another Peace Corps volunteer. We lived in a family compound. We had a bagi that was shared, the various Peace Corps volunteers, and there were several of us in that town. Plus there was a Scottish Presbyterian hospital there. And. So we had a bagi that we shared. And that way we could afford to pay her. She worked for us one day and then she would work for the guys one day. And it worked out well.\n\nAnd they had a shortage of English teachers. So I ended up teaching my own classes and they were middle school age girls. I had classes of 65 students. And the. One day I got really frustrated and I kicked 15 kids out of class, which is like the ultimate punishment because they have to go stand outside in the courtyard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were they doing to deserve that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. They were talking and giggling and making rude noises. And I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were being teenage girls."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.539236470183702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So being on my own, teaching my own classes, that was challenging and very rewarding until it got to the final exams. And I gave them. I told them, you know. You're going to have to translate from English to Farsi and from Farsi to English. And here are the sample sentences. And I literally gave them like ten, ten sentences for each set. And then I randomly took a set from those. So, you know, if they had memorized those ten, no problem. Most of the kids flunked. Even though I knew they knew it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They could talk to me in English. So I said to the student, what? What did you study for the? No, why, why didn't you study what I gave you for the exam? It wasn't what my brother was studying. And I said, am I your brother's teacher? Get a. That was still another piece of culture, that they would study what their brother was studying rather than what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The teacher said."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or what they were assigned. And it just. So I can't say I ended on a high note, but I did have very positive experiences, and if I had it to do over again, I probably would have stuck it out in Nowshahr by myself. But it's very difficult to go straight from college into a foreign country and be able to say this living situation that, that is being paid for by somebody else. You know, it was provided by the Department of Education, to find a living situation that's appropriate. I finally, after I had been given the transfer, I finally met up with someone who had a compound with a separate house in it, and it would have been perfectly fine.\n\nBut I had already made the transfer. They had already assigned a new volunteer. I had already introduced him and oriented him to the town and to the schools. And so that was not the time for me to say, okay, I found the right living situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm staying after all."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.265818300204113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They could talk to me in English. So I said to the student, what? What did you study for the? No, why, why didn't you study what I gave you for the exam? It wasn't what my brother was studying. And I said, am I your brother's teacher? Get a. That was still another piece of culture, that they would study what their brother was studying rather than what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The teacher said."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or what they were assigned. And it just. So I can't say I ended on a high note, but I did have very positive experiences, and if I had it to do over again, I probably would have stuck it out in Nowshahr by myself. But it's very difficult to go straight from college into a foreign country and be able to say this living situation that, that is being paid for by somebody else. You know, it was provided by the Department of Education, to find a living situation that's appropriate. I finally, after I had been given the transfer, I finally met up with someone who had a compound with a separate house in it, and it would have been perfectly fine.\n\nBut I had already made the transfer. They had already assigned a new volunteer. I had already introduced him and oriented him to the town and to the schools. And so that was not the time for me to say, okay, I found the right living situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm staying after all."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but, but once again, you know, when they started putting volunteers with host country nationals as part of their training, you know, what that did is gave people that link, somebody who could tell them what was acceptable, what wasn't acceptable, that they could refer to. But, you know, we were in that early period when they were still experimenting and they were still, you know, taking volunteers out and saying, okay, here's your site. Do something wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "See ya. Yes, exactly. So as you think back, what, what are the highlights for you of your experience?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.093602839758162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but, but once again, you know, when they started putting volunteers with host country nationals as part of their training, you know, what that did is gave people that link, somebody who could tell them what was acceptable, what wasn't acceptable, that they could refer to. But, you know, we were in that early period when they were still experimenting and they were still, you know, taking volunteers out and saying, okay, here's your site. Do something wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "See ya. Yes, exactly. So as you think back, what, what are the highlights for you of your experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My highlights, uh. They're mostly from Nowshahr. But."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cream puffs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cream puffs. A long bus ride in which I exchanged, I spent hours talking to other women on the bus and being accepted. They were curious about me and I was curious about them. And we talked about their lives, you know, just these long bus rides. I had a mountain climbing experience in which I climbed with a group of male volunteers and we came to a Kurdish camp. And because I was a female, the woman, the mother, allowed us to take pictures of me with her, which frequently they didn't, you know, and they, because they had a female with them. She opened up to us and invited us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds like your Farsi really got pretty good."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.77066982195351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My highlights, uh. They're mostly from Nowshahr. But."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cream puffs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cream puffs. A long bus ride in which I exchanged, I spent hours talking to other women on the bus and being accepted. They were curious about me and I was curious about them. And we talked about their lives, you know, just these long bus rides. I had a mountain climbing experience in which I climbed with a group of male volunteers and we came to a Kurdish camp. And because I was a female, the woman, the mother, allowed us to take pictures of me with her, which frequently they didn't, you know, and they, because they had a female with them. She opened up to us and invited us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds like your Farsi really got pretty good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Farsi, well, one of the other volunteers said I spoke tea talk. He came back with an FS seven. I came back with a FS two. But I could talk to people about children and household things and. I wasn't really literate. I could read at first grade level, um, because I didn't, I didn't really have time to study Farsi. The people who were in colleges, they had time to take, hire tutors and study Farsi. I was, I was on the go until dark, from early morning until dark every day. And even though we, you always went home for lunch, you had an hour, an hour or an hour and a half break in the middle of the day for rest. Um. You know, there just was not a lot of time to sit down and be a, a student myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, what did you do during vacations?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.30946891599199, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Farsi, well, one of the other volunteers said I spoke tea talk. He came back with an FS seven. I came back with a FS two. But I could talk to people about children and household things and. I wasn't really literate. I could read at first grade level, um, because I didn't, I didn't really have time to study Farsi. The people who were in colleges, they had time to take, hire tutors and study Farsi. I was, I was on the go until dark, from early morning until dark every day. And even though we, you always went home for lunch, you had an hour, an hour or an hour and a half break in the middle of the day for rest. Um. You know, there just was not a lot of time to sit down and be a, a student myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, what did you do during vacations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During vacations, um, I traveled in Iran. I travel to see other volunteers. My long vacation, my month off, I went with another volunteer and we went to. We went to Istanbul. We went to, um, to Athens. We went to Cyprus and we went to Beirut and traveled together and. That was, she was the college professor that I told you about who took off two years to do Peace Corps. And then, uh. I met my husband. I met him in that, oh, interval when I was making the change, and I wanted to go to the Tehran bazaar. We were both at Peace Corps headquarters and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he a volunteer as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a volunteer. He was in Shiraz, about 1,000 miles from me in any direction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was in the same group with you or a different group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.677187684435545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During vacations, um, I traveled in Iran. I travel to see other volunteers. My long vacation, my month off, I went with another volunteer and we went to. We went to Istanbul. We went to, um, to Athens. We went to Cyprus and we went to Beirut and traveled together and. That was, she was the college professor that I told you about who took off two years to do Peace Corps. And then, uh. I met my husband. I met him in that, oh, interval when I was making the change, and I wanted to go to the Tehran bazaar. We were both at Peace Corps headquarters and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he a volunteer as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a volunteer. He was in Shiraz, about 1,000 miles from me in any direction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was in the same group with you or a different group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, he was in a different group. His group ended a few months after my group. They came later and ended later. We got married after we got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what kind of romance was it with 1,000 miles apart? How did, how did that work out?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.416281091895733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, he was in a different group. His group ended a few months after my group. They came later and ended later. We got married after we got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what kind of romance was it with 1,000 miles apart? How did, how did that work out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, it worked out well. We've been married for 51 years, so that's, that's pretty good. That's good. But that was, uh. He and I traveled together the second Nowruz vacation that we had, went to visit southern parts of Iran that neither one of us had seen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really got into some of the history and looking at things from the different dynasties. A lot of things are open now that were not open then, even, or you, you had to be in the know to know where they were. And now they're."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean ruins?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 17.797877891229298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really got into some of the history and looking at things from the different dynasties. A lot of things are open now that were not open then, even, or you, you had to be in the know to know where they were. And now they're."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean ruins?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, ruins. Buildings even. People ask me if I did this or that in Hamadan. It wasn't even something on the horizon to do when we were there. Nobody went into the caves unless you were a spelunker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And now they take tours and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after Peace Corps, did you travel to other countries or did you come straight home?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.293676408925057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And now they take tours and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after Peace Corps, did you travel to other countries or did you come straight home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. No. I fulfilled a lifelong wish and said, I'm halfway around the world, I'm going to see the other half. There's a good chance I'll get back to Europe. Who knows when I can get back to Asia. So I went overland from Iran through Afghanistan. Steve went with me, my husband, he took his leave and we traveled together overland. And across Afghanistan. Then we flew into Amritsar in India. And saw the Taj Mahal, did Delhi and Agra. Then he had to go back and finish his service. And I took, I went on, took the train across India and then went up to Nepal, to Thailand, to Hong Kong, to Taiwan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By myself. California, Honolulu, Hawaii. And California. And then home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And home was North Carolina?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.881862676583396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. No. I fulfilled a lifelong wish and said, I'm halfway around the world, I'm going to see the other half. There's a good chance I'll get back to Europe. Who knows when I can get back to Asia. So I went overland from Iran through Afghanistan. Steve went with me, my husband, he took his leave and we traveled together overland. And across Afghanistan. Then we flew into Amritsar in India. And saw the Taj Mahal, did Delhi and Agra. Then he had to go back and finish his service. And I took, I went on, took the train across India and then went up to Nepal, to Thailand, to Hong Kong, to Taiwan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By myself. California, Honolulu, Hawaii. And California. And then home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And home was North Carolina?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "North Carolina.\n\nSo you did go all around the world.\n\nI went to Japan. Yes. Yes, I had, uh. By then I had learned a whole lot about being alone and being on my own and being able to travel on my own. But it was, it was a growing experience and, uh. You know, I hooked up with various people. I met up with some American teachers who were in Thailand, and we traveled around together and, uh. I really had learned how to, to be alone and still have a, oh, a positive experience. But it was a, it was a long growing period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what happened when you got back to North Carolina?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.535402973981551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By myself. California, Honolulu, Hawaii. And California. And then home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And home was North Carolina?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "North Carolina.\n\nSo you did go all around the world.\n\nI went to Japan. Yes. Yes, I had, uh. By then I had learned a whole lot about being alone and being on my own and being able to travel on my own. But it was, it was a growing experience and, uh. You know, I hooked up with various people. I met up with some American teachers who were in Thailand, and we traveled around together and, uh. I really had learned how to, to be alone and still have a, oh, a positive experience. But it was a, it was a long growing period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what happened when you got back to North Carolina?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. I was glad to see everybody. I gave a bunch of talks to local groups about what I had been doing. Ran around and visited all the relatives. Went to New York and started job hunting and, uh, met Steve when he came home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why New York? Was he from New York?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.482034257862209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's from Brooklyn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was our standing joke. How does a guy from Brooklyn meet a girl from the hills of North Carolina? In Tehran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Obviously."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um. So I found a job working at the Jewish Guild for the Blind. They needed a communication skills instructor, not something that anybody trained for. And they said, ah, you were in the Peace Corps. I bet you can do this. And I said sure. So I learned how to teach typing to people who had no sight and of a group of. It was a, an interesting, also an interesting challenge because basically what you were doing was working with people so that they could function. You know, how to turn on their radios, how to, how to use a template to sign a check."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were all blind?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.002511429459517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um. So I found a job working at the Jewish Guild for the Blind. They needed a communication skills instructor, not something that anybody trained for. And they said, ah, you were in the Peace Corps. I bet you can do this. And I said sure. So I learned how to teach typing to people who had no sight and of a group of. It was a, an interesting, also an interesting challenge because basically what you were doing was working with people so that they could function. You know, how to turn on their radios, how to, how to use a template to sign a check."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were all blind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were blind. And the most challenging client I had was deaf and blind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had to teach her how to type. But what they were looking for was somebody who was willing to accept a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was a perfect training. It was perfect training."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.645075838838908, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had to teach her how to type. But what they were looking for was somebody who was willing to accept a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was a perfect training. It was perfect training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we got married and then I moved with him. We moved from New York to Saint Louis, and I taught in an inner city enrichment program as a volunteer. I taught about Iran. I taught these kids in the inner city how to make how to make Iranian rugs. We used greeting card boxes and created many miniature rugs. And I taught them about the alphabet and found one child. One of the classes there was this totally disruptive child, and the teacher was telling me she was about ready to pull her hair out. This child could read Farsi. And I realized he's dyslexic. Because Farsi is written."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From right to left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right to left."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.4507109121468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From right to left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right to left."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so when I put the stuff up, you know, it fascinated the kids. But he, he grabbed, he got into it. It was like, okay, I think somebody needs to do some testing here. Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and from there, we went back to New York City. And I volunteered. By then, we had one child and I volunteered in a nursery school. And then from there we went to West Virginia and I worked, I volunteered in the schools there. And then we came to Albany, New York, and serendipity. I just decided to renew my lifeguarding because it was a good way to challenge me myself. And then I picked up my WSI, which I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is WSI?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.96384063228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and from there, we went back to New York City. And I volunteered. By then, we had one child and I volunteered in a nursery school. And then from there we went to West Virginia and I worked, I volunteered in the schools there. And then we came to Albany, New York, and serendipity. I just decided to renew my lifeguarding because it was a good way to challenge me myself. And then I picked up my WSI, which I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is WSI?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's water safety instructor for Red Cross. And then the, uh, the director of the program went on maternity leave and they asked me if I would sub for six months and she didn't come back. So 16 and a half years later, I retired from that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like, you know, you're just prepared to take on whatever comes along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People who always plan their careers, I tell them, don't get too hung up on that. It may not happen."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.4042673692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's water safety instructor for Red Cross. And then the, uh, the director of the program went on maternity leave and they asked me if I would sub for six months and she didn't come back. So 16 and a half years later, I retired from that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like, you know, you're just prepared to take on whatever comes along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People who always plan their careers, I tell them, don't get too hung up on that. It may not happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And the thing is, our Iran experience has colored our lives throughout. I still cook Iranian food regularly. We celebrate Nowruz, the New Year. We, uh, we also have been very active since 1981. We've been active with the returned Peace Corps volunteer group that's in the Albany area. That's when Peace Corps tried, decided they were going to try to get volunteers together. It was a genesis. And then I'm now the president of the board of the Peace Corps Iran Association. Newly elected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations. And what does that group do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6714081880000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like, you know, you're just prepared to take on whatever comes along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People who always plan their careers, I tell them, don't get too hung up on that. It may not happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And the thing is, our Iran experience has colored our lives throughout. I still cook Iranian food regularly. We celebrate Nowruz, the New Year. We, uh, we also have been very active since 1981. We've been active with the returned Peace Corps volunteer group that's in the Albany area. That's when Peace Corps tried, decided they were going to try to get volunteers together. It was a genesis. And then I'm now the president of the board of the Peace Corps Iran Association. Newly elected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations. And what does that group do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a group that formed 2011. There have been groups off and on but. And we are. I don't have the mission statement right in my head. But we, we are making an effort to locate all the people that served in Iran. We're trying to preserve the legacy of what Peace Corps did in Iran because Peace Corps left Iran in 1976. So we're all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the Shah was overthrown?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.2980348000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a group that formed 2011. There have been groups off and on but. And we are. I don't have the mission statement right in my head. But we, we are making an effort to locate all the people that served in Iran. We're trying to preserve the legacy of what Peace Corps did in Iran because Peace Corps left Iran in 1976. So we're all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the Shah was overthrown?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he wasn't overthrown at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the unrest and turmoil was beginning. And, uh, we advocate for better relations between the American people and the Iranian people, the people of Iran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have a real challenge at the moment."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5533720000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he wasn't overthrown at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the unrest and turmoil was beginning. And, uh, we advocate for better relations between the American people and the Iranian people, the people of Iran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have a real challenge at the moment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we have a very great challenge at the moment, but we have, we have several strains. And we are, we have someone that's writing a history of our group of Peace Corps in Iran. We're working with professors who are doing research on it. And we have a conference every two years that's a reunion and a, you know, let's update our knowledge kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent. So you've brought Peace Corps back to the United States, clearly."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0412000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we have a very great challenge at the moment, but we have, we have several strains. And we are, we have someone that's writing a history of our group of Peace Corps in Iran. We're working with professors who are doing research on it. And we have a conference every two years that's a reunion and a, you know, let's update our knowledge kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent. So you've brought Peace Corps back to the United States, clearly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, I've done, I've done lots of schools program. And I brought back, I brought back a mullah's robe, a Kurdish turban, and a chador. And the kids love to see what it's like to dress up. And I have a whole box of, not your grand art. I have a pair of shoes that were made out of recycled rubber tires. I have a set of donkey beads, and I always put it out and say, you know, what is this? You know, who would wear this? And the kids, you know, I have. What is this? Where did it come from? Kind of thing set that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kids, even adults, enjoy looking at their, their ordinary day to day. I didn't have a lot of money. I mean, there are people that came back with wonderful carpets and things. I came back with an inexpensive tribal carpet, but I came back with a lot of these sort of daily life kind of things, which are a lot of fun for kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. So you've carried the spirit of Peace Corps forward?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2680000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, I've done, I've done lots of schools program. And I brought back, I brought back a mullah's robe, a Kurdish turban, and a chador. And the kids love to see what it's like to dress up. And I have a whole box of, not your grand art. I have a pair of shoes that were made out of recycled rubber tires. I have a set of donkey beads, and I always put it out and say, you know, what is this? You know, who would wear this? And the kids, you know, I have. What is this? Where did it come from? Kind of thing set that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kids, even adults, enjoy looking at their, their ordinary day to day. I didn't have a lot of money. I mean, there are people that came back with wonderful carpets and things. I came back with an inexpensive tribal carpet, but I came back with a lot of these sort of daily life kind of things, which are a lot of fun for kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. So you've carried the spirit of Peace Corps forward?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I try."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's, that's all we can do. Anything else you want to say before we conclude the interview?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.52, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kids, even adults, enjoy looking at their, their ordinary day to day. I didn't have a lot of money. I mean, there are people that came back with wonderful carpets and things. I came back with an inexpensive tribal carpet, but I came back with a lot of these sort of daily life kind of things, which are a lot of fun for kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. So you've carried the spirit of Peace Corps forward?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I try."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's, that's all we can do. Anything else you want to say before we conclude the interview?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would. I would like to go back to the training. I think that when we went through our exit interviews, I think that it was significant that I was the only one that I know of in my group who was by myself. All the other women were with other women. And I think we, we made it fairly clear that there were lots of issues that, that they needed to take into consideration when placing women. It wasn't that we couldn't do the job or didn't do the job. It was that, you know, just plunking a woman down by herself without a support group, without some kind of support, was very difficult. The guys, guys ended up pretty much, some of them were by themselves. But what happened with the men is a family would absorb them. Somehow we didn't get absorbed into a family the way the guys did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's probably cultural."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I try."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's, that's all we can do. Anything else you want to say before we conclude the interview?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would. I would like to go back to the training. I think that when we went through our exit interviews, I think that it was significant that I was the only one that I know of in my group who was by myself. All the other women were with other women. And I think we, we made it fairly clear that there were lots of issues that, that they needed to take into consideration when placing women. It wasn't that we couldn't do the job or didn't do the job. It was that, you know, just plunking a woman down by herself without a support group, without some kind of support, was very difficult. The guys, guys ended up pretty much, some of them were by themselves. But what happened with the men is a family would absorb them. Somehow we didn't get absorbed into a family the way the guys did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's probably cultural."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's very cultural. And, and of course, they could easily go out to, for dinner. It was much harder for us to go to a restaurant and there were very few and far between, at least in the small towns where I was. And in the, when I got to a city, women didn't go out by themselves to eat. It just wasn't done. So there were changes that came down because I, I think our group was fairly articulate about some of the issues that we faced. I think we were articulate about the fact that don't tell us to change your culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, one of the people I've interviewed has said that Peace Corps is a learning organization. Sometimes it takes a while to learn, but over time has changed a lot with each experience. So I'm sure your, your experience fed into that as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would. I would like to go back to the training. I think that when we went through our exit interviews, I think that it was significant that I was the only one that I know of in my group who was by myself. All the other women were with other women. And I think we, we made it fairly clear that there were lots of issues that, that they needed to take into consideration when placing women. It wasn't that we couldn't do the job or didn't do the job. It was that, you know, just plunking a woman down by herself without a support group, without some kind of support, was very difficult. The guys, guys ended up pretty much, some of them were by themselves. But what happened with the men is a family would absorb them. Somehow we didn't get absorbed into a family the way the guys did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's probably cultural."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's very cultural. And, and of course, they could easily go out to, for dinner. It was much harder for us to go to a restaurant and there were very few and far between, at least in the small towns where I was. And in the, when I got to a city, women didn't go out by themselves to eat. It just wasn't done. So there were changes that came down because I, I think our group was fairly articulate about some of the issues that we faced. I think we were articulate about the fact that don't tell us to change your culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, one of the people I've interviewed has said that Peace Corps is a learning organization. Sometimes it takes a while to learn, but over time has changed a lot with each experience. So I'm sure your, your experience fed into that as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure it did. And, um, and Peace Corps today is so different from, from what we did. And you were in the same era as me. So I called home, in order to call home, I had to make a journey to, to Tehran, sign up to make a phone call, wait for two days, get in line for my time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No satellite phones."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's very cultural. And, and of course, they could easily go out to, for dinner. It was much harder for us to go to a restaurant and there were very few and far between, at least in the small towns where I was. And in the, when I got to a city, women didn't go out by themselves to eat. It just wasn't done. So there were changes that came down because I, I think our group was fairly articulate about some of the issues that we faced. I think we were articulate about the fact that don't tell us to change your culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, one of the people I've interviewed has said that Peace Corps is a learning organization. Sometimes it takes a while to learn, but over time has changed a lot with each experience. So I'm sure your, your experience fed into that as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure it did. And, um, and Peace Corps today is so different from, from what we did. And you were in the same era as me. So I called home, in order to call home, I had to make a journey to, to Tehran, sign up to make a phone call, wait for two days, get in line for my time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No satellite phones."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No satellite phones, no digital age, no Skype, no Zoom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was not only in the developing world, it was just a different time."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No satellite phones, no digital age, no Skype, no Zoom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was not only in the developing world, it was just a different time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a different time. And so we have letters. We have letters home. We have written documents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a lot of people I'm wondering today what kind of documentation they're going to have of their service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's why we're doing these interviews as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00053:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a lot of people I'm wondering today what kind of documentation they're going to have of their service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's why we're doing these interviews as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, also, there are an awful lot of us that are aging. We're looking at it. That was part of the impetus for the Peace Corps Iran group, I've talked forever, was that we realized that we are aging out and this is our opportunity to tell our story and get our legacy on record."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's important."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And right now, we're, we're starting to look for a place to archive the writings and things that we have. So I think the interviews are really important, but they're only one piece of trying to archive the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely. Great. So, excellent interview."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00409:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 223, "return_to_go": 355.36190926932284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, luckily you both avoided any incident there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're both still alive, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you tell him to watch out next time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't say anything to him. I just went on to another parking place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked at White Sands here initially for a few years, as you mentioned, on these various projects. How then did the opportunity arise for you to go to the Johnson Space Center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00409:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 33.147000000000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I might close by saying for the record that I had a fantastic career. I wouldn't take a minute for any of it. I wouldn't take $1,000 for a minute of it. I worked for the agency for over thirty-two years and I am thankful to NASA and the federal government and the space program that I got the opportunity to be involved in many of the things that I was. I will be forever grateful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly have had some very exciting times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I sure have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If I could ask you jut a couple final questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over this unique career, what would you say over all of that would have been your greatest challenge? You've certainly had a lot that you've talked about."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00409:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. NASA is a very unique organization, as far as talent's concerned. There continues to be, and there certainly was in the early days, some extremely talented people.\\n\\n Something you asked me in a letter about the interview process when I came to work here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's an interesting story. I was at college, applied to JSC, received an offer in the mail—no, I take that back. A personnel person from Houston called me and asked me if I would accept a job at White Sands Test Facility, and I said, \"Yes, I will.\" We talked about what is it and all. He didn't know much about it, but what he told me was enough to say, \"Yes, I'll take the job.\" I received a written offer in the mail. I never talked to anybody at White Sands. I never talked to anybody technically at JSC.\\n\\n When I got to White Sands, after I'd been there a while, Mr. Gilbreath showed me a letter he wrote to personnel when they'd notified him I was coming. He protested and said, \"I don't know this person, I've never talked to him, I have no idea if he's technically competent.\" He objected to the way they hired me. I guess when he made me deputy director of his organization, he had finally decided I was going to be okay, I guess. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think probably so. Well, it certainly sounds like over the years enough people thought that you were okay. It certainly panned out well for everyone, it sounds like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I've had a great career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like at this point to ask Kevin if he has any questions.\n\nI'll save mine for tomorrow.\n\nOkay. I want to thank you so much for sharing all this with us."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00409:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's an interesting story. I was at college, applied to JSC, received an offer in the mail—no, I take that back. A personnel person from Houston called me and asked me if I would accept a job at White Sands Test Facility, and I said, \"Yes, I will.\" We talked about what is it and all. He didn't know much about it, but what he told me was enough to say, \"Yes, I'll take the job.\" I received a written offer in the mail. I never talked to anybody at White Sands. I never talked to anybody technically at JSC.\\n\\n When I got to White Sands, after I'd been there a while, Mr. Gilbreath showed me a letter he wrote to personnel when they'd notified him I was coming. He protested and said, \"I don't know this person, I've never talked to him, I have no idea if he's technically competent.\" He objected to the way they hired me. I guess when he made me deputy director of his organization, he had finally decided I was going to be okay, I guess. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think probably so. Well, it certainly sounds like over the years enough people thought that you were okay. It certainly panned out well for everyone, it sounds like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I've had a great career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like at this point to ask Kevin if he has any questions.\n\nI'll save mine for tomorrow.\n\nOkay. I want to thank you so much for sharing all this with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly had some interesting times."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00409:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly had some interesting times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I give you the opportunity when you're transcribing this or thinking about it, if you've got any other questions, call me or whatever, and I'll be glad to give you my views on them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When you talk to other people some things may come up that you want to talk to me about, I'll certainly be happy to talk to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. You'll have a chance to review the transcript, too, so if you think of anything at that time we can always add that in as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00060:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 64.65511464711079, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "> Other duties as assigned. [Laughs] I’ve said this for years and it’s almost true. You do everything nobody else wants to do. Engineers don’t want to do anything administrative, so you get all the floor space, the supplies, the job requirements, promotions, training; anything that isn’t engineering becomes yours.\\n\\n Managers get used to, when they say, “I want this,” it’s there. They have no idea sometimes what it takes to make “this” get right “there.” So to me that position has more duties, different duties, than almost any other; that you never get to finish one thing before you’re doing three others. You go in and look at any AO’s desk, and they’re going to have several folders that they’re working at the same time. You have to get pretty good at multitasking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had so much corporate knowledge when you came in there, because, like you said, you came in in 1962. Tell us about the great memories that you look back on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "> All of them. Doing those simulations. Working at the agency for just a couple of months, and then I’m doing simulations that they’re going to use when the guys simulate the flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to witness those? Were you in the sims when they did those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "> Not in the Stahl-Meyers Building, because they went somewhere else to do their simming. Once we moved on-site and once the Control Center was operational, yes. Oh yes, I was over there a lot. Moving from one program to another, each one—the Gemini Program, the first time we had two of them up there at the same time; the first rendezvous in space, Gemini 7/6. Just every single thing we did was another treasured memory. Apollo, you know, the tragedy of the fire and then how determined it made everybody to never have anything like that again. The triumph of Apollo 8 that finally went around the Moon, and Apollo 11."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts when you heard that they were going to send [Apollo] 8 around the Moon? Because that was a big moment."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00060:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 29.577982200000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "> ASTP wasn’t too different. Skylab, we had lots more recording technical capability. We didn’t go over to the Control Center quite as much. In fact, in our experiments area, we were able to put in a system, like a phone mail; it was before we had phone mails on the office phones. A recorder had the phone hooked up for when people called in—you know, the PIs [Principal Investigators] would call in from different places wondering about the status of a particular experiment. I would just go over and retrieve the tapes. So we didn’t spend quite as much time in the Control Center, but you had more telecommunications, more computer capability that you were able to do things from your office location. Still did as much, just in a different way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Plus you had people now working 24 hours around the clock for supporting missions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "> For the missions, yes, a few days before and a couple of days afterward, usually. Of course, once we started [Space] Shuttle and [International Space] Station, then you did have more and more of it. And of course, with the Shuttle Program, it was expected to have a launch every couple of weeks, and that didn’t happen. Not even once a month, usually. Shuttle was slower than you expected, and it never did get up to what they had thought it would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we were doing research, there was a question about a teleprinter machine during Skylab. Did you work with those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "> I didn’t do teleprinter. In fact, I was thinking about that. I’m not even sure exactly where it was and who was doing it, but it was another organization, probably an info [information] systems kind of—the network controllers or somebody who provided that service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about the technology changes. You mentioned the Ditto machine and just the evolution of the typewriter itself. What were some of the other areas of technology that you watched while you were there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00060:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 34.702000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "> Oh, I couldn’t imagine doing anything else. I was doing what I liked. I was successful. Just watching history in the making, the people I worked with; I just couldn’t imagine having that same satisfaction anywhere else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did much change when the Center started shifting towards supporting the Shuttle activities? Did much change for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "> The biggest change for me was doing mostly administrative kind of things and not being in the middle of the technical stuff. In the old days, doing all that typing of all that technical stuff, you were aware of what was going on technically and what was even handier, you knew the acronyms. You ask any new people to the site, and they say, “Good Lord, it’s like a new language.” Losing some of that was a change for me. I had to start looking up what is this, what is this, what is that. Especially in more recent years, because people at Headquarters didn’t know what all that was, you had to be sure that you spelled out every acronym, even though they wouldn’t even know what that was in a lot of cases. That was the biggest change for me.\\n\\n I was working more with management by then, the supervisors and managers, not with the guys. It wasn’t a bad thing. It was just a different level of work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through your life you were a female working in a male-oriented environment. Did you ever feel like there was a difference of how they treated you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "> No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like the respect level was equal?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00060:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.2, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "> No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like the respect level was equal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "> Oh yes, always equal. You know, I found that the guys always looked out for me. They really looked out for me. Even when it was a coarser environment than it is now, I never felt disrespected, never. As I say, it was like family. They were all my big brothers or dads or whatever. To this day when I see like Gerry Griffin, Gene, all the guys—when Phil [Philip C.] Shaffer died, one of the first notes I got back was from Neil Hutchinson.\\n\\n I didn’t feel that I finished the Neil Hutchinson story. A few years after that, Hutchinson was named Manager of the Space Station Freedom Program. He needed an Admin [Administrative] Officer, and HR asked me, “Would you be interested?”\\n\\n I said, “I’m really happy where I am. I don’t see any need to change.”\\n\\n They said, “Well, could we just put your name in just as a possible?”\\n\\n I said, “Okay.”\\n\\n Well, the next thing I know, Hutchinson went to HR, who were the middlemen between [Clifford E.] Charlesworth and Kranz, and asked for me to be his AO. So my telling him in those days—guys don’t want yes people. They want people to tell them how it is. He asked for me to be his AO, and both Charlesworth and Kranz said not only no, but, “Hell, no.” [Laughter] And that didn’t bother me at all. In fact, I was glad later, because that program was very short-lived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Station does have a history of its own, doesn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "> Boy, doesn’t it. To this day Neil is one of the first to respond to any request."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think has been the most challenging aspect of what you had to deal with when you were out at the Center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 45.76352835836037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. When I was working the staff at the Radiation Lab, I worked on ten or fifteen different experiments like that. If you want some more examples, I can give you. Maybe that’s enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Sure. That’s fine. We can always come back if we need to. At any point during this time, did you begin working on researching the upper atmosphere or space? Was that during this time, while you were—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That was much later, after I left Manned Spacecraft Center, Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, you were here. For a while you also were working in the Plowshare Division."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s after I went to Livermore [Livermore Radiation Laboratory, Livermore, California]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. At Livermore. What sorts of projects were you involved with there? How did the projects you were working on at Livermore vary from what you had been working on when you were here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:44", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.87493728137911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My work on the test ban?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you said you were an advisor to the Nuclear Test Ban Conference that was going on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were advising—the ambassador was the head of the U.S. delegation, about the technical side of what a test ban should be like. How much did that influence my work? Not at all, I think. Just a different subject."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. As you were working at Goddard and you were working on the various satellite programs, particularly in the Theoretical Division, did you have any work at all in the Mercury or Gemini Programs, any of the experiments that they did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other, particularly satellite programs?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:46", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 33.1943747570879, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were advising—the ambassador was the head of the U.S. delegation, about the technical side of what a test ban should be like. How much did that influence my work? Not at all, I think. Just a different subject."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. As you were working at Goddard and you were working on the various satellite programs, particularly in the Theoretical Division, did you have any work at all in the Mercury or Gemini Programs, any of the experiments that they did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other, particularly satellite programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would have been rather different if I’d been involved in the science in those things. I’ll tell you a story. I’ll tell it now. At a meeting later on, this now jumps down to Houston. I’m in a meeting with the Houston management about some part of the science business, and Chris [Christopher C.] Kraft, the head of [Flight] Operations down there, asked me something about the science program that was done on Gemini, and I said it was lousy. It was really bad. He looked very upset and said, “What do you mean, it was lousy?”\\n\\n I said, “It was a fiasco.”\\n\\n And he stomped out of the room. And he came back a minute later with a piece of paper written on it, “Fiasco: a ridiculous and utter failure.” He had gone to a dictionary and looked up the definition of “fiasco.” And he said, “Is that what you mean?”\\n\\n And I said, “Well, maybe it wasn’t quite ‘utter.’” And that didn’t seem to help very much. But it’s true. Science that they put together to do on Gemini was worthless, not useful at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly very limited."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.004461984263738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By scientists. It was pulling together a variety of scientists from the community who had the proper skills to try to think through what should these experiments be and how much does a lunar seismograph have to weigh. Can you do one for ten pounds that has enough sensitivity that you can measure moonquakes okay? That kind of questions. You have to get the right kind of people to do this, but we had a good set there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it determined who would be invited to participate in this conference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who would be—I don’t know. I wasn’t. I guess I suggested a couple of people to come, but I’m sure it was the Houston management and plus maybe Washington management, but I don’t know. I wasn’t involved in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Before we move on to more details about Apollo, were there any other major projects that you were involved in while you were at Goddard that you’d like to comment on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Pauses] No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, while you were involved in planning now for the Apollo Program, or at least participated in this conference, were you involved in any other Apollo activities while at Goddard, before you moved on to the Manned Spacecraft Center [Houston, Texas]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 28.89384664918193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who would be—I don’t know. I wasn’t. I guess I suggested a couple of people to come, but I’m sure it was the Houston management and plus maybe Washington management, but I don’t know. I wasn’t involved in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Before we move on to more details about Apollo, were there any other major projects that you were involved in while you were at Goddard that you’d like to comment on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Pauses] No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, while you were involved in planning now for the Apollo Program, or at least participated in this conference, were you involved in any other Apollo activities while at Goddard, before you moved on to the Manned Spacecraft Center [Houston, Texas]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would make sense, saying there wasn’t a lot of need for more planning since the conference went so well.\\n\\n How did the opportunity arise for you to accept the position as the Director of Science and Applications at the Manned Spacecraft Center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 38.720398666982646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That wasn’t my responsibility; it was the responsibility of a bunch of the engineering guys who worked with us on seeing that the experiments were put together properly and doing the testing for man-rating and that sort of stuff. It was done, but it wasn’t my personal responsibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were these individuals that worked under you, or were they in the Engineering Directorate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes and no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Some of both."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of both, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, if you could describe to us a little bit about how your directorate was structured, what some of the branches were, and—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:98", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 17.455136250840127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the details were put together by the teams and our people. The general idea, having the vacuum chamber and people working arms inside the vacuum chamber, that had been decided sometime before. Having the quarantine had been decided sometime before. We set up the Japanese quail and pine seedlings and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How challenging was it in working in the laboratory, trying to meet NASA’s standards on safety, on how the samples would be processed and then also trying to meet the scientific community’s desires, needs for wanting to get the samples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn’t too bad. You knew pretty well what you had to do, and as soon as you explained to scientists what general things had to be gone through before you could pass the material out to them. We had one big meeting where we got a lot of scientists together, I guess maybe all the people that sent in proposals for analysis, that probably was who we had pulled together. We pulled them all together and had a fairly detailed discussion of what the process was for working the materials and getting them to the point where they were ready to pass out and how we did that.\\n\\n There were some questions about—it was at that meeting that Gerry Wasserburg came to the fore. He was representing a bunch of people who were mad about something. What were they mad about? They were made about money. Oh, hell, I’ve forgotten. That’s too long ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, so we talked to them in enough detail so that they didn’t get mad at us, and we had NASA engineers working with us on the project, so the safety part of it was going along as part of the ordinary business of the lab. So I guess the answer is, there weren’t very many big blow-ups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s good."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:106", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 16.037408199292344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gulp. —I remember we had one. I don’t really remember much about it.\n\nThat was where the Roy Rogers—not Roy Rogers—Buck Rogers guy flew. It sure impressed the kids.\n\nOh, you mean with the backpack? Yes. I must say, I’m coming up blank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That’s all right. You’re allowed to say that. You’re allowed to say that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was early, early on. I think we had gone down to Houston in May, and this was that summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We don’t expect you to remember every little detail. It was a while back. So it’s quite all right to say, “I just don’t remember.”\\n\\n Do you recall the Lunar Exploration Planning Group that came out of that, or is that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That’s fine. Looking at lunar site selection, did you as Director of Science and Applications have or participate in the site selection for where they would make the landings?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:110", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.15267577699149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was early, early on. I think we had gone down to Houston in May, and this was that summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We don’t expect you to remember every little detail. It was a while back. So it’s quite all right to say, “I just don’t remember.”\\n\\n Do you recall the Lunar Exploration Planning Group that came out of that, or is that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That’s fine. Looking at lunar site selection, did you as Director of Science and Applications have or participate in the site selection for where they would make the landings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I personally didn’t have anything to do with it. The guy who was in charge of that, essentially, was Gene [Eugene M.] Shoemaker, and Gene had a bunch of guys, some of them were from Geological Survey and some other types. Gene Simmons, I think, worked with him, trying to select sites. Now, they were under fairly severe constraints. They had to select land[ing] places, where the LM could land most safely, and so that restricted the kinds of places where they could go and things they could do, a fair amount. But having said that, then I think they did a pretty good job of selecting them. I’m not a geologist, so I can’t argue. They did get highland sites. They did have mare sites. They never had the guts to land in a rill, did they? There was talk at one point about landing in Hadley’s Rill, but they didn’t ever do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They landed within a few miles of it, I think, but—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:116", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.012292096382875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that right? Well, but they never got down into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know if that would have been useful or not, but one of the questions that geologists had, I think they still do have, is what were the conditions which allowed you to make a river on the Moon, and what evidence is there from what’s there now, i.e., the rill, that says what it was like. But that was too ambitious for the landings.\\n\\n One of the whole problems with Apollo was that because safety was so important, you were forbidden from doing a lot of things you’d like to do. Like, wouldn’t it be fun to land near the polar caps and make a survey for water, which they could have done? But that’s not right in the easily available low-latitude region on the Moon, so stay away from it. Wouldn’t it have been fun to land on the backside? No, no, that’s forbidden.\\n\\n There was a project that JPL [Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California] had put together at about the same time as Apollo, called Surveyor Block Three, which was to do more science than Apollo would do, for a lot less money. But it got canceled because it was in competition with Apollo.\n\nIt was unmanned, however, wasn’t it?\n\nThat was unmanned, yes, very much unmanned. But it would have landed on the backside of the Moon. It would have landed—probably landed in the polar regions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this one of the projects that included ideas of unmanned rovers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it had a rover, yes. And it had sample collection and it had sample return. But that wasn’t the purpose [of Apollo]. The purpose was, get a man there and get him back and then do a little bit of science on the side if you can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did the scientific community accept that purpose for Apollo?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:132", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.582299609447875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much training would the crews participate in before the mission, to be able to get them to at least try and pick up some of the rocks that were more interesting or that might generate science, or were you involved much in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t involved in that. Shoemaker and his group, took the astronauts on various geological field trips, and they went up to—well, they went to Meteor Crater, Arizona. They went up into Oregon where there’s a big lava flow area. I can’t think what it’s called anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Craters of the Moon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Craters of the Moon. That sounds right. And spent time with them. These were places which were selected to —look like the Moon. I’m not sure that’s fair, but vaguely. And spent time talking with them, and, “Well, how do you sample this? What do you look for?” And all that. That was the kind of training they got, was from Gene’s group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gene Shoemaker’s group was working primarily through the USGS [United States Geological Society]. They weren’t employed by NASA, is that correct?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:134", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.20255512160875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t involved in that. Shoemaker and his group, took the astronauts on various geological field trips, and they went up to—well, they went to Meteor Crater, Arizona. They went up into Oregon where there’s a big lava flow area. I can’t think what it’s called anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Craters of the Moon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Craters of the Moon. That sounds right. And spent time with them. These were places which were selected to —look like the Moon. I’m not sure that’s fair, but vaguely. And spent time talking with them, and, “Well, how do you sample this? What do you look for?” And all that. That was the kind of training they got, was from Gene’s group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gene Shoemaker’s group was working primarily through the USGS [United States Geological Society]. They weren’t employed by NASA, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "True."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that structured between the NASA science side, the USGS side, but yet all coming together to accomplish the same mission?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:136", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.891727912898611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Craters of the Moon. That sounds right. And spent time with them. These were places which were selected to —look like the Moon. I’m not sure that’s fair, but vaguely. And spent time talking with them, and, “Well, how do you sample this? What do you look for?” And all that. That was the kind of training they got, was from Gene’s group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gene Shoemaker’s group was working primarily through the USGS [United States Geological Society]. They weren’t employed by NASA, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "True."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that structured between the NASA science side, the USGS side, but yet all coming together to accomplish the same mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, —Gene’s group was given the responsibility for all of the planning-related landing sites and all of the training of the astronauts and taking them to interesting places looking for things that might be similar to the Moon in some sense. How was that related? It was just done. I don’t think there was a contract or anything like that. I’m not aware of any. And we watched it going on. I talked to Gene a lot and worked with him some. Toured Meteor Crater, Arizona, with him one day, but we never gave him directions what to do. He was one of the team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the relationship there was pretty good then between—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:140", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.508306065306927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, —Gene’s group was given the responsibility for all of the planning-related landing sites and all of the training of the astronauts and taking them to interesting places looking for things that might be similar to the Moon in some sense. How was that related? It was just done. I don’t think there was a contract or anything like that. I’m not aware of any. And we watched it going on. I talked to Gene a lot and worked with him some. Toured Meteor Crater, Arizona, with him one day, but we never gave him directions what to do. He was one of the team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the relationship there was pretty good then between—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, it was very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he did a good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked earlier about ALSEP and that conference that it had actually spun off of and a lot of the planning was done there, and not as much was needed to be done afterwards, other than fine-tuning, actually building the instruments. But on Apollo 11, they actually flew an abbreviated version of the ALSEP. It only had a couple of the instruments, rather than the full package. Do you recall the reasoning behind that, and how that came about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:142", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.453673405896586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, it was very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he did a good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked earlier about ALSEP and that conference that it had actually spun off of and a lot of the planning was done there, and not as much was needed to be done afterwards, other than fine-tuning, actually building the instruments. But on Apollo 11, they actually flew an abbreviated version of the ALSEP. It only had a couple of the instruments, rather than the full package. Do you recall the reasoning behind that, and how that came about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don’t even know that it was true. But go ahead. I’ll believe you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I believe they flew just an EASEP [Early Apollo Surface Experiment Package] that had, I think, three instruments, including the seismometer and a couple of others, whereas the larger package was with all of the instruments which flew on later flights. I was just curious about your input on that, but we can move on."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:144", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.504081562107316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he did a good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked earlier about ALSEP and that conference that it had actually spun off of and a lot of the planning was done there, and not as much was needed to be done afterwards, other than fine-tuning, actually building the instruments. But on Apollo 11, they actually flew an abbreviated version of the ALSEP. It only had a couple of the instruments, rather than the full package. Do you recall the reasoning behind that, and how that came about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don’t even know that it was true. But go ahead. I’ll believe you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I believe they flew just an EASEP [Early Apollo Surface Experiment Package] that had, I think, three instruments, including the seismometer and a couple of others, whereas the larger package was with all of the instruments which flew on later flights. I was just curious about your input on that, but we can move on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That’s fine. Were you involved at all with the Apollo Program Control Board that would make decisions about what aspects of the missions, if there would be changes, especially on the science side of things?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:146", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.671201735674796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don’t even know that it was true. But go ahead. I’ll believe you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I believe they flew just an EASEP [Early Apollo Surface Experiment Package] that had, I think, three instruments, including the seismometer and a couple of others, whereas the larger package was with all of the instruments which flew on later flights. I was just curious about your input on that, but we can move on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That’s fine. Were you involved at all with the Apollo Program Control Board that would make decisions about what aspects of the missions, if there would be changes, especially on the science side of things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sat in on some of the meetings, but I wasn’t a member of the board, and I only sat in when there was something involving science programs and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall any major incidents—or not incidents, —but events around the science aspect on that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:148", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.673528022671537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That’s fine. Were you involved at all with the Apollo Program Control Board that would make decisions about what aspects of the missions, if there would be changes, especially on the science side of things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sat in on some of the meetings, but I wasn’t a member of the board, and I only sat in when there was something involving science programs and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall any major incidents—or not incidents, —but events around the science aspect on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. My memory is that that was set up after the fire to be a control of materials and a control of what went inside the vehicle to make it harder to make changes so that they would have a more carefully controlled vehicle. And we didn’t interact very much. Inside our constraints, the weight constraints, the space constraints, we were left pretty well alone, do what we wanted to do, and then we were going to try to do something to change the things that science was allowed to do. We didn’t interact with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Going back to the Lunar Receiving Laboratory, you talked a little bit about the development, about the construction, that that was still in process as you came, and the development of the procedures, the ways to decide how the samples would be studied and allocated. Do you recall running actually simulation of walking samples through to test out some of those procedures?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 21.197500534545906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, assuming that this average day isn’t when the samples had just come back to the labs, an ordinary day during the year, I’d go to the office and do the things that you do in an office. You take care of the problems that have come up about people and space and money. I don’t know, being the director of a lab is a whole bunch of little jobs that you just have to keep on top of. People keep coming and giving you problems. They come to you with their problems; they’re never solutions to problems. Not very exciting. Just the ordinary hum of business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That’s all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could I speak?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It impressed me that, once or twice, I went to the office and there was Bill in his office, and there was a line of about eight people waiting outside the door, so as part of the day, each one had a little problem, and Bill was able to switch his mind, which I can’t do, to answer all of these different people with different problems, just, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and I was amazed.\n\nWell, that’s what an administrator has to do.\n\nWell, yes, but I thought it was pretty impressive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s certainly an important ability to be able to have, to work in so many different areas within the science field and had to tie in the engineering as well, and the NASA needs, science community needs. Those take a unique individual to be able to do that, which is why we’re here talking to you today.\\n\\n Another responsibility that might have fallen under your area is working with the mission control room."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.468679369830674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we could warn them that an active sunspot region was coming around the side of the Sun, getting to the area where if particles were emitted, they come toward the Earth. They don’t fly directly toward the Earth. They come along making field lines projected from the Sun, but we can tell them where the field lines are connected to the Earth, what direction the particles will come from, and we could give them several days’ warning of an active region that looked like it might produce a flare. And then if a big flare did occur, we could tell them right away, and after some minutes, I don’t know how long, maybe an hour, we could say whether that flare had produced high-energy particles or not. That was the important thing to know. So we’d give them a couple of days’ warning.\\n\\n I don’t know if they ever did a simulation of this or not. If they had had warning of a solar event, what would they have done? I don’t know if they simulated that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly something that we could ask the simulations people when we talk to them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how much time would it take for—and I’m sure we could look this up as well, if we needed to, but how much time would it take for those particles to reach the Earth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the Sun to the Earth? The high-energy protons, a couple of hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It definitely would have to be moving fast."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.631865966478527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how much time would it take for—and I’m sure we could look this up as well, if we needed to, but how much time would it take for those particles to reach the Earth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the Sun to the Earth? The high-energy protons, a couple of hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It definitely would have to be moving fast."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I’m right on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s about right, I think. Well, another connection with mission control and a monitoring room was, there was a science room for the missions where a lot of the scientists would gather to watch what the crews were doing on the lunar surface. Were you involved in monitoring that and setting that up, as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.813184407198364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the Sun to the Earth? The high-energy protons, a couple of hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It definitely would have to be moving fast."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I’m right on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s about right, I think. Well, another connection with mission control and a monitoring room was, there was a science room for the missions where a lot of the scientists would gather to watch what the crews were doing on the lunar surface. Were you involved in monitoring that and setting that up, as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in and out of it. It was just an observatory, if you will, to watch what’s going on. There wasn’t any feedback from that into the Mission Control Center, any action items, but the seismologists were always involved in that, wanting to know what was going on. I was in the solar monitoring area more than I was in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a critical area for you to be monitoring, watching for the flares, and it’s good that it turned out there weren’t any."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.125760452442625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I’m right on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s about right, I think. Well, another connection with mission control and a monitoring room was, there was a science room for the missions where a lot of the scientists would gather to watch what the crews were doing on the lunar surface. Were you involved in monitoring that and setting that up, as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in and out of it. It was just an observatory, if you will, to watch what’s going on. There wasn’t any feedback from that into the Mission Control Center, any action items, but the seismologists were always involved in that, wanting to know what was going on. I was in the solar monitoring area more than I was in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a critical area for you to be monitoring, watching for the flares, and it’s good that it turned out there weren’t any."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Throughout your career at the Johnson Space Center, you worked with a variety of different people in many different areas, from engineering to management, to the scientists. Were there any of those individuals who had a significant impact on you personally or that you felt were key to the Apollo Program, to the science part in particular?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.43254732709438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in and out of it. It was just an observatory, if you will, to watch what’s going on. There wasn’t any feedback from that into the Mission Control Center, any action items, but the seismologists were always involved in that, wanting to know what was going on. I was in the solar monitoring area more than I was in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a critical area for you to be monitoring, watching for the flares, and it’s good that it turned out there weren’t any."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Throughout your career at the Johnson Space Center, you worked with a variety of different people in many different areas, from engineering to management, to the scientists. Were there any of those individuals who had a significant impact on you personally or that you felt were key to the Apollo Program, to the science part in particular?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, George Low, the guy who got me to come down there, was a very good man, and he was the guy who, as I said, got me there. But he moved on to Washington [D.C.] later on, so I didn’t see him that much. People in the Center, not so much. I was pretty much on my own. Low man on the totem pole."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You eventually decided to move on from your position at the Manned Spacecraft Center. What brought you to that decision?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 19.921954650573245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nWas PROFS the Doppler business?\n\nPROFS. Good lord, what’s PROFS?\n\nOh, well, all right.\n\nI don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What had led to you moving to NCAR from NOAA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bob White, who is my ex-boss at NOAA, asked me if I would—the head of NCAR had left. Who was he, Wester, the guy before me?\n\nWalter. Walter something. He was a skier and he quit skiing, and he wasn’t known for that.\n\nYou don’t mean Walter Monk?\n\nNo, not Walter Monk. They had musical evenings.\n\nWalter Orr Roberts.\n\nRight. Correct.\n\nYes. That’s right. He retired, and so the job was open, and Bob White suggested me for the job, and he was senior enough guy in Washington, so I could get it. And the question was, did I want it? Why did I go to NCAR? I’m not sure I know. Because Bob White asked me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, that’s a good reason. You had worked closely with him, and knew that he—."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a new challenge, and I’d been at NOAA for some years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, eventually you moved on to work for the Department of Energy’s Office of Energy Research. What sorts of projects were you involved in there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.02599398045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I wandered all over. Couldn’t hold a job. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, but you had several very interesting experiences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I had an interesting life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you at all follow any of the Apollo program after you had left NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Tell me about them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, there were a few, and they did bring back—they were able to get, as you said, more science on some of the later missions with carrying some in the command module bays."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.0288822005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I had an interesting life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you at all follow any of the Apollo program after you had left NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Tell me about them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, there were a few, and they did bring back—they were able to get, as you said, more science on some of the later missions with carrying some in the command module bays."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were able to stay on the surface longer. They were able to achieve a few interesting things with it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.143202445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Tell me about them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, there were a few, and they did bring back—they were able to get, as you said, more science on some of the later missions with carrying some in the command module bays."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were able to stay on the surface longer. They were able to achieve a few interesting things with it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, at one point, said the only thing we ought to do with man in space, after the Apollo game was over, was to go back to the Moon and set up a permanent observatory. There are a lots of good things. —It doesn’t really have to be manned. Manned would probably help; I don’t know. There are lots of good things you can use the Moon as a platform. No atmosphere, so you don’t have all the problems we have here, and build big telescopes and big infrared systems and things like that, and open up astronomy in a way that you can’t do it on the Earth. It would be nice to do it, but I don’t think it will ever get done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly would be very interesting."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.38133605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were able to stay on the surface longer. They were able to achieve a few interesting things with it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, at one point, said the only thing we ought to do with man in space, after the Apollo game was over, was to go back to the Moon and set up a permanent observatory. There are a lots of good things. —It doesn’t really have to be manned. Manned would probably help; I don’t know. There are lots of good things you can use the Moon as a platform. No atmosphere, so you don’t have all the problems we have here, and build big telescopes and big infrared systems and things like that, and open up astronomy in a way that you can’t do it on the Earth. It would be nice to do it, but I don’t think it will ever get done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly would be very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, looking back over your career, particularly at NASA, both at Goddard and at Manned Spacecraft Center, what would you consider your biggest challenge, but also your most significant accomplishment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’d like to, at this point, ask Rebecca if she had any questions.\n\nI just have one, because you mentioned it a couple of times. While you were at the Manned Spacecraft Center, you had the opportunity to interact with so many scientists and investigators that wanted to be involved with the Apollo Program. Could you share with us, for a few minutes, their reactions and maybe some of their questions? Was there anybody who ever hesitated at becoming involved with the program, or were they all very enthusiastic and energetic about wanting to be part of what was going on in the country at this time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember anybody being hesitant about getting involved. Essentially, all of the people we were working with, having access to lunar samples, something like this, was a next step in whatever their scientific program had been. A geologist or geochemist who’s working on terrestrial samples, meteorite samples, meteorites from Antarctica, there were a bunch of guys who went down to collect meteorites in an interesting situation in Antarctica where there’s one particular area where the meteorites will collect on the surface or near surface of the ice, and then they would gradually flow into one particular region and then sort of stop, and it’s a natural place for going and collecting a bunch of them. Maybe you know more about this than I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know a little bit about it, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there were several of those guys who worked with us, and they were all very keen on getting lunar materials. I can’t think of anybody who was unhappy or hesitant or didn’t like what was going on with the samples. They just wanted to get a hold of them and go to work on them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to turn some down that wanted to be involved in the program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:266", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.05, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember anybody being hesitant about getting involved. Essentially, all of the people we were working with, having access to lunar samples, something like this, was a next step in whatever their scientific program had been. A geologist or geochemist who’s working on terrestrial samples, meteorite samples, meteorites from Antarctica, there were a bunch of guys who went down to collect meteorites in an interesting situation in Antarctica where there’s one particular area where the meteorites will collect on the surface or near surface of the ice, and then they would gradually flow into one particular region and then sort of stop, and it’s a natural place for going and collecting a bunch of them. Maybe you know more about this than I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know a little bit about it, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there were several of those guys who worked with us, and they were all very keen on getting lunar materials. I can’t think of anybody who was unhappy or hesitant or didn’t like what was going on with the samples. They just wanted to get a hold of them and go to work on them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to turn some down that wanted to be involved in the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. We got proposals from some people who weren’t technically competent, and so we turned them down. And that’s the normal way that science is done, that you have to develop the capability, the competence to do a certain class of work, and then you compete for new steps in this, new projects, new capabilities. If you weren’t competent, if you haven’t demonstrated ability, you’re not going to get the material."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you receive unsolicited proposals of what other scientists thought you should be doing in space for science?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:268", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there were several of those guys who worked with us, and they were all very keen on getting lunar materials. I can’t think of anybody who was unhappy or hesitant or didn’t like what was going on with the samples. They just wanted to get a hold of them and go to work on them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to turn some down that wanted to be involved in the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. We got proposals from some people who weren’t technically competent, and so we turned them down. And that’s the normal way that science is done, that you have to develop the capability, the competence to do a certain class of work, and then you compete for new steps in this, new projects, new capabilities. If you weren’t competent, if you haven’t demonstrated ability, you’re not going to get the material."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you receive unsolicited proposals of what other scientists thought you should be doing in space for science?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any of those that come to your mind that you maybe wish you could have suggested but knew—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00262:270", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. We got proposals from some people who weren’t technically competent, and so we turned them down. And that’s the normal way that science is done, that you have to develop the capability, the competence to do a certain class of work, and then you compete for new steps in this, new projects, new capabilities. If you weren’t competent, if you haven’t demonstrated ability, you’re not going to get the material."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you receive unsolicited proposals of what other scientists thought you should be doing in space for science?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any of those that come to your mind that you maybe wish you could have suggested but knew—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of them were nuts. Things that we would have liked to have done? Mostly I think we had a crank file, stuff that came in that was junk.\\n\\n I can’t think of anything that people said we ought to have done that we wanted to do. Nothing comes to mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any ideas of your own that you would have liked to have included in there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.28948613965601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Why don't we do it now. Then you'll be through with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then you can do whatever you want to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Well, we'll go ahead and take a quick break here then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. [Tape change.]\n\n...and if you've seen some of the old pictures, we all had short hair, we had skinny ties, and we wore short-sleeved shirts. And we all had hair. [Laughter]\\n\\n Huge briefing. I guess it lasted three, four days, out at Berkeley, University of California at Berkeley. Well, we had never seen people with rope belts and barefooted in a college [classroom]. The guy that was running the machine that day, the viewgraph, he would just sleep between. They just drove some of the conservative folks right over the wall, because here they were in the hotbed of all the people from California. But there were things like that, like that same way with the thing with the face masks on to keep everybody from getting contaminated.\\n\\n So what else can I do to help you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if we could, you've given us a great overview of your career with NASA, and I thought maybe to go back and touch on a couple of things in a little bit of detail."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.432762377395566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then you can do whatever you want to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Well, we'll go ahead and take a quick break here then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. [Tape change.]\n\n...and if you've seen some of the old pictures, we all had short hair, we had skinny ties, and we wore short-sleeved shirts. And we all had hair. [Laughter]\\n\\n Huge briefing. I guess it lasted three, four days, out at Berkeley, University of California at Berkeley. Well, we had never seen people with rope belts and barefooted in a college [classroom]. The guy that was running the machine that day, the viewgraph, he would just sleep between. They just drove some of the conservative folks right over the wall, because here they were in the hotbed of all the people from California. But there were things like that, like that same way with the thing with the face masks on to keep everybody from getting contaminated.\\n\\n So what else can I do to help you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if we could, you've given us a great overview of your career with NASA, and I thought maybe to go back and touch on a couple of things in a little bit of detail."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Starting back with when you came on with Mercury. Now, you said you were in Hawaii on Cooper's flight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 34.925291530439516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. [Tape change.]\n\n...and if you've seen some of the old pictures, we all had short hair, we had skinny ties, and we wore short-sleeved shirts. And we all had hair. [Laughter]\\n\\n Huge briefing. I guess it lasted three, four days, out at Berkeley, University of California at Berkeley. Well, we had never seen people with rope belts and barefooted in a college [classroom]. The guy that was running the machine that day, the viewgraph, he would just sleep between. They just drove some of the conservative folks right over the wall, because here they were in the hotbed of all the people from California. But there were things like that, like that same way with the thing with the face masks on to keep everybody from getting contaminated.\\n\\n So what else can I do to help you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if we could, you've given us a great overview of your career with NASA, and I thought maybe to go back and touch on a couple of things in a little bit of detail."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Starting back with when you came on with Mercury. Now, you said you were in Hawaii on Cooper's flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the only one that you had worked on then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 36.58365725604391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Starting back with when you came on with Mercury. Now, you said you were in Hawaii on Cooper's flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the only one that you had worked on then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I worked on Wally Schirra's flight earlier, which was 7. That was at Corpus Christi. Then they shut that place down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were working at Corpus Christi during that mission."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 39.53739695115989, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the only one that you had worked on then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I worked on Wally Schirra's flight earlier, which was 7. That was at Corpus Christi. Then they shut that place down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were working at Corpus Christi during that mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. If I remember, that was just like a month after I got here, but we would have our briefing, and a lot of the things that they were doing I had done in the Air Force, so it was not a big change. It was just changing the names. It wasn't an airplane; it was a spacecraft.\\n\\n Of course, we had a training session where I had to learn all the sessions. Now, the Mercury systems were a piece of cake compared to the Apollo systems and the Gemini systems, but we really needed help into getting everybody to work together. I was involved in a lot of the work for Gene, Gene Kranz, and did a lot of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking at that and bringing everybody together and the transition from Mercury to Gemini, were there big pieces that you remember, like some of the biggest challenges of making the new program possible and building the control center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 41.97134118451439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we had a group of people, and those folks kind of grew and were really the people who managed the different things. The personalities of those people sparkled enough that they commanded the respect of the others. Primarily they worked harder and just did a better job than some of the other folks. We had some other folks that who were just solid in the systems and that's all they wanted to do. But we had some fun times, some good times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like there was a pretty good rapport between everyone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We played hard and we worked hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good combination."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The move to Houston. You had mentioned earlier that you had gone back to Virginia after the Air Force, because that was your home. What did you and your family think about the move to Houston?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 44.412601316127095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We played hard and we worked hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good combination."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The move to Houston. You had mentioned earlier that you had gone back to Virginia after the Air Force, because that was your home. What did you and your family think about the move to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were delighted. We were just delighted. Even though I'd gone back to help my mom, it just wasn't right for what I wanted to do with my life and my family, and this was a wonderful opportunity. It was new. I had listened to Al Shepard. In fact, I was driving to Langley on Air Force business when he flew. I thought, hey, this is pretty cool. \"Cool\" wasn't a good word then. Cool was when you were almost cold. [Laughter] But I really thought it was neat and I looked forward to it. Then when I met some of the people that were really working on it, I thought I would fit in okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you, as a kid, had you had an interest?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 47.77482602231873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ed White was a neighbor of ours, and so sad, and Neil [A.] Armstrong was. Neil Armstrong's wife taught our daughter the synchronized swimming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's neat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a good guy. Reminded me from what I've read about Charles [A.] Lindbergh, he was about the same kind of person. Nice guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he does seem to be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking at, again, some of the intricacies of the mission control room, and you had talked about the Gemini VI and VII mission, how they did the dual and the rendezvous, and that wasn't something that had originally been planned for Gemini."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 48.827848425144765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. Thinking about them is kind of fun, too. This is more interesting to me than it is to you guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I don't know, it's very interesting to us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was amazed. I said, well, what am I going to do? I wrote my oldest granddaughter all the funny things that I could remember, and the good times, and my second granddaughter. Now, we've got three more, and I don't know whether I'm going to do that again. I've been looking for the diskette, because I have some time, and I'm going to keep looking for it and see if I can't find it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or you'll be able to share this with them, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I may do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure they would get a kick out of listening to it.\\n\\n You mentioned the Apollo 8 mission earlier and Apollo 11, both of which were very big steps. Actually, out of all of the Apollo missions, did one of them make a bigger impression on you than any of the others?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 46.89889151517553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just worked that in with your other duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With everything else, yes. We went for a couple of days and that worked out fine. They would send the stuff, we'd review it at night, and then we'd listen to their briefings and ask questions, and then they kept records and told us what they had done. Like I said, the neatest thing is to have a picture of Mars. Not many people have those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, not many at all. As the mission was landing, were you able to follow it all in real time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we knew what they were going to do. It was exciting. But, you see, it takes twenty minutes, I think, or longer than that for a signal to come, so when you see it, it's too late to fix it, unless it's something that you can work around. We had similar problems with the Skylab, because if you didn't get the data in, something could have happened twenty minutes ago because of the way the orbits went around the Earth. So it worked out well, finally after their boss told them they ought to listen.\\n\\n Tom [Thomas E.] Young left that project and went and was the director of Goddard for a while. I think he lives on the ocean and sails a lot now. But it's good to have good memories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very good. It's very good to be able to look back and say you were able to enjoy the times and the people you worked with. Very fortunate. Looking back like that, over all your time with NASA what would you consider to have been your biggest challenge?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.948741085233422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope you do. I really do. It's a special group. Some got rewarded and some didn't. I think we tried to reward everybody in some way. We spent a lot of time giving them extra money, giving them good assignments and giving them a lot of responsibility. I think it paid off, because we're still flying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And safely. Every time we have a launch, I watch it, but, boy, it makes me nervous, because that rascal's getting old. [Laughter] It's getting older."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully it and the people will be able to hang in there a while longer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to thank you so much for joining us today."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.27637898359269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And safely. Every time we have a launch, I watch it, but, boy, it makes me nervous, because that rascal's getting old. [Laughter] It's getting older."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully it and the people will be able to hang in there a while longer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to thank you so much for joining us today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's been quite a pleasure. Is there anything that you think we didn't touch on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 25.862643315102986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to thank you so much for joining us today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's been quite a pleasure. Is there anything that you think we didn't touch on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. If you think you want to talk again, I'll be glad to come. I'm sure there's some other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you guys have anything that we didn't—\n\nI just have one question, actually.\n\nOkay. Do you want to switch the tape out?\n\nI have about three minutes.\n\nWhy don't you go ahead and switch then. [Tape change.]\n\nThe question I had concerns Mercury 8. I know that you were one of the remote site communicators on the Mercury 8, but Wally Schirra flew at a time when the United States was about to enter the Cuban Missile Crisis. The tensions had already been really high between Cuba and the United States. Did you all take any special precautions? Were there any special concerns?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:120", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.88043956610001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you talked to John?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not yet, but we're hoping to soon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They used to do that to John, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about Skylab. Did you work Skylab 4?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When all the guys had the problems and [Gerald P.] Carr called down and they said, \"We've got to have this meeting.\" How was flight operations during that time that the problems were occurring between Skylab 4 and flight operations?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:122", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.422710629000008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They used to do that to John, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about Skylab. Did you work Skylab 4?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When all the guys had the problems and [Gerald P.] Carr called down and they said, \"We've got to have this meeting.\" How was flight operations during that time that the problems were occurring between Skylab 4 and flight operations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What problem are you talking about?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, Carr and [William R.] Pogue and [Edward G.] Gibson talked about the fact that their mission was just too full."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:124", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.803011810000008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When all the guys had the problems and [Gerald P.] Carr called down and they said, \"We've got to have this meeting.\" How was flight operations during that time that the problems were occurring between Skylab 4 and flight operations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What problem are you talking about?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, Carr and [William R.] Pogue and [Edward G.] Gibson talked about the fact that their mission was just too full."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, they had signed up for that. That's what the flight plan was, and the first thing they would do is to call and get the next day's flight plan. They never complained about it until they got behind, and all they had to do was call and say, \"Hey, could I have a discussion?\" Once it was changed, they just narrowed it down. It wasn't a big deal. They probably thought it was more of a big deal than the rest of them.\\n\\n John [Llewellyn] did not care for Scott Carpenter, because John was a retro officer, and he said when he landed in Mercury, his only flight, \"I didn't know where I was and neither did they.\" That's not true. John went ballistic. So a number of years later, Scott Carpenter became an aquanaut and he was in a submarine off the West Coast. You have to know John, and don't tell John this story, please, because he'll go ballistic, probably kill the three of you, and then come and search me down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we don't want that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:130", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.947890000000008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They wrote in the log that night that John was not going to count down to retrofire, that Scott Carpenter was going to do it from the submarine. John went bananas, stomped around, then everybody was just like this, hysterical. Then he finally realized that he had been thrown a hook and had bit totally.\\n\\n But John would do things. One time he came late and he was supposed to be there for reentry. And he was really good. He was really good, but he would get things loose sometimes and he didn't have a parking spot. So he just pulled up and parked on the sidewalk. The next person that came in was Dr. Gilruth. So John couldn't drive on the center for a long time. Then he started riding a horse, you know. But John was one of the characters that worked with us. He's a real case. You might need to wear your ear defenders when you listen to John."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll be well prepared."}, {"role": "user", "content": "John was a smart guy and did a lot of good. John was a veteran of the Korean War and was bayonetted in the trench. He was a Marine and bayonetted and left for dead by the North Koreans and survived. We had guys like that all the time. I could tell you a really funny story about John, but I'm not going to tell you. No, I don't think I should tell it. I will tell you, but turn the tape off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay.\n\nI think Kevin had some questions first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Excuse me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, actually, you were answering my question. I was going to ask about the flight controllers since you talked about the flight directors, so I was curious to hear these kinds of stories about any of the other flight controllers like Sy or John Llewellyn or maybe John [W.] Aaron or Steve [Stephen G.] Bales, some of these guys. So if there are any other stories you want to share."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:132", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.942100000000007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "John was a smart guy and did a lot of good. John was a veteran of the Korean War and was bayonetted in the trench. He was a Marine and bayonetted and left for dead by the North Koreans and survived. We had guys like that all the time. I could tell you a really funny story about John, but I'm not going to tell you. No, I don't think I should tell it. I will tell you, but turn the tape off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay.\n\nI think Kevin had some questions first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Excuse me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, actually, you were answering my question. I was going to ask about the flight controllers since you talked about the flight directors, so I was curious to hear these kinds of stories about any of the other flight controllers like Sy or John Llewellyn or maybe John [W.] Aaron or Steve [Stephen G.] Bales, some of these guys. So if there are any other stories you want to share."}, {"role": "user", "content": "John Aaron was a neat guy, still is a neat guy. John was a guy during Apollo 12, when we had the launch, John had been on the console when we had one of the pad tests where we interfaced with the Cape with that and had watched the fuel cell go down. When it happened during the launch, he knew exactly what to do. So there's a lot of providence, but John was so smart, he would have probably figured it out anyway. He was real laid back. You knew when John spoke, he was worthwhile to listen to. John was an excellent systems guy and real bright, just a neat person, went on and did a lot of work for the Orbiter software, really put his arms around that. I don't know whether John still works over there or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, he's getting ready to retire."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.41, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "John Aaron was a neat guy, still is a neat guy. John was a guy during Apollo 12, when we had the launch, John had been on the console when we had one of the pad tests where we interfaced with the Cape with that and had watched the fuel cell go down. When it happened during the launch, he knew exactly what to do. So there's a lot of providence, but John was so smart, he would have probably figured it out anyway. He was real laid back. You knew when John spoke, he was worthwhile to listen to. John was an excellent systems guy and real bright, just a neat person, went on and did a lot of work for the Orbiter software, really put his arms around that. I don't know whether John still works over there or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, he's getting ready to retire."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is he really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's a neat guy.\\n\\n Gary [E.] Cohen was another systems guy. We called Gary \"Gross\" all the time. Jim [James E.] Hannigan was a sharp guy, he ran the lunar module group. Don [Donald R.] Puddy worked for him and went on to become a flight director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think about the trench?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00495:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 34, "return_to_go": 34.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is he really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's a neat guy.\\n\\n Gary [E.] Cohen was another systems guy. We called Gary \"Gross\" all the time. Jim [James E.] Hannigan was a sharp guy, he ran the lunar module group. Don [Donald R.] Puddy worked for him and went on to become a flight director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think about the trench?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The trench was where John Llewellyn was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had from stories that they used to have matches made up that said, \"The Trench.\""}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:2", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.444834250242394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I will not be among these people because I will be on the quarantine already, but Mr. Sotnikov will be instead of me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a suggestion on how we need to contact these people? Is there a main person that we need to go through, to be able to do this at their convenience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Please remind me before those dates, and I'll ask them to participate in your project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We will, definitely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But please don't forget to remind me. I need to tell them; otherwise, they might reject it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We will remind him very soon."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:4", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.049815833602658, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Please remind me before those dates, and I'll ask them to participate in your project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We will, definitely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But please don't forget to remind me. I need to tell them; otherwise, they might reject it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We will remind him very soon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And of the Americans, who will participate in this project? I understand Frank [L.] Culbertson [Jr.] and who else? Nygren?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, Rick Nygren and Tom Cremins. Jim Nise. Richard Fullerton. Charlie Brown. Jeff Cardenas. Mike Barratt, Dr. Barratt. As well as our crew members, our astronauts that were in residence on Mir."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:8", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.481254115558833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And of the Americans, who will participate in this project? I understand Frank [L.] Culbertson [Jr.] and who else? Nygren?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, Rick Nygren and Tom Cremins. Jim Nise. Richard Fullerton. Charlie Brown. Jeff Cardenas. Mike Barratt, Dr. Barratt. As well as our crew members, our astronauts that were in residence on Mir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Charlie [Charles J.] Precourt? [Those] Who stayed on Mir, yes?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe we also can include [James D.] Wetherbee and Charles Precourt. Bill Readdy, Wetherbee, and Charles Precourt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we would also like to interview the cosmonauts who interacted with the Mir during the Mir Shuttle program."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:10", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.31250457284315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Charlie [Charles J.] Precourt? [Those] Who stayed on Mir, yes?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe we also can include [James D.] Wetherbee and Charles Precourt. Bill Readdy, Wetherbee, and Charles Precourt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we would also like to interview the cosmonauts who interacted with the Mir during the Mir Shuttle program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's more difficult, but to try to meet with them during their stay in the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And we may not be able to do all, but we would like to do as many as our time and our budget allows us."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:12", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.458338414270166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe we also can include [James D.] Wetherbee and Charles Precourt. Bill Readdy, Wetherbee, and Charles Precourt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we would also like to interview the cosmonauts who interacted with the Mir during the Mir Shuttle program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's more difficult, but to try to meet with them during their stay in the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And we may not be able to do all, but we would like to do as many as our time and our budget allows us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How long shall we have this [interview] session?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell him that's his pleasure."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:14", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.84259823807796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's more difficult, but to try to meet with them during their stay in the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And we may not be able to do all, but we would like to do as many as our time and our budget allows us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How long shall we have this [interview] session?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell him that's his pleasure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you going to broadcast outside, educational programs, through NASA channels or do you plan to do it in a wider way?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The project as a whole?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:16", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 37.60288693119774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How long shall we have this [interview] session?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell him that's his pleasure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you going to broadcast outside, educational programs, through NASA channels or do you plan to do it in a wider way?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The project as a whole?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's for all the world to know about the Mir Shuttle project, and so once we gather this data, there are plans to do a book that anybody can buy. We'd like to be able to do things on the Internet and that sort of thing. So, it's something that NASA is doing, but will share with the world."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:18", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.55876325688637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you going to broadcast outside, educational programs, through NASA channels or do you plan to do it in a wider way?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The project as a whole?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's for all the world to know about the Mir Shuttle project, and so once we gather this data, there are plans to do a book that anybody can buy. We'd like to be able to do things on the Internet and that sort of thing. So, it's something that NASA is doing, but will share with the world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would like to say why I am asking this. I'm wondering if it's possible to show a piece of this project, with this recording in Russian, for Russian people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask if there are any plans in Russia to do the same sort of thing, because I think that would be a good exchange of information."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:20", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 43.95418139654041, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's for all the world to know about the Mir Shuttle project, and so once we gather this data, there are plans to do a book that anybody can buy. We'd like to be able to do things on the Internet and that sort of thing. So, it's something that NASA is doing, but will share with the world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would like to say why I am asking this. I'm wondering if it's possible to show a piece of this project, with this recording in Russian, for Russian people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask if there are any plans in Russia to do the same sort of thing, because I think that would be a good exchange of information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Frankly speaking, I don't have time for it, but I agree this will be very useful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't mean for you to do it, but some organization similar to NASA."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:22", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 41.06020155171157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would like to say why I am asking this. I'm wondering if it's possible to show a piece of this project, with this recording in Russian, for Russian people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask if there are any plans in Russia to do the same sort of thing, because I think that would be a good exchange of information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Frankly speaking, I don't have time for it, but I agree this will be very useful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't mean for you to do it, but some organization similar to NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't study such a possibility yet, but maybe I need to talk to the representatives of Star City, and maybe they will be interested in this project. This issue with other people, I don't know what will be their reaction. I believe this will be very useful for Russia, as well, to show such a movie about the space project.\\n\\n Several years ago, we had a special program on Russian TV. It lasted about thirty minutes, one hour, and the person who was in charge of it, his name is [Vitaly Ivanovich] Sevastyanov, and he was a cosmonaut. It was a very good program. Unfortunately, this program disappeared, and Russian TV doesn't have any program dedicated to space issues. It was like an introduction.\\n\\n Now one hour left [referring to the interview session]; it's better than two hours.\\n\\n Unfortunately, we don't have too much time. I hear you have a lot of questions, and if I start giving answers to every question in detail, then we will run out of time, and I would like to suggest you select several questions and I'll respond to them. If I explain all things in detail, then it will take all day, and then we'll be able to drink a lot of"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and we look forward to that time. [Laughter]"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:38", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8799811296000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In those times it was like a big fantasy, and I never could imagine that I would have to do this, what I did. I never could dream about it. Now children can dream and they can say, since an early age, \"I'm going to be an astronaut\" or cosmonaut, but at that time there was not such a profession. People of my generation couldn't dream about it, because they did not know what to dream about at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a tank commander. Do you have this great love of small, confined places, being a tank commander and then being a cosmonaut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter] It just happened. I never planned to spend time in small volumes like a tank or on orbiting, but it just happened. Except for this time when I was in the tank and on orbit, I used to spend a lot of time with people, surrounded by a lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've certainly enjoyed talking to you today and having you share stories with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you very much. I believe this will be just the beginning for your story. You can add it and provide more details if you arrange interviews with the people I mentioned to you at the beginning. These people, on the Russian side, they were working in parallel and they were partners of people we were talking about on the American side. I am director of this program, but I always base myself on the experience and knowledge of the people. They are a key role, people in the program, and they play the main role in all this. I would like them to participate in this project, and I would like you to interview them if possible. I'm ready to help you to organize these interviews."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's one thing that Frank Culbertson has said, is what a team effort this whole project has been, and he stresses that a lot. So we appreciate how you couldn't have done it without your team either. And we want to speak to the entire team."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:40", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3110901440000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter] It just happened. I never planned to spend time in small volumes like a tank or on orbiting, but it just happened. Except for this time when I was in the tank and on orbit, I used to spend a lot of time with people, surrounded by a lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've certainly enjoyed talking to you today and having you share stories with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you very much. I believe this will be just the beginning for your story. You can add it and provide more details if you arrange interviews with the people I mentioned to you at the beginning. These people, on the Russian side, they were working in parallel and they were partners of people we were talking about on the American side. I am director of this program, but I always base myself on the experience and knowledge of the people. They are a key role, people in the program, and they play the main role in all this. I would like them to participate in this project, and I would like you to interview them if possible. I'm ready to help you to organize these interviews."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's one thing that Frank Culbertson has said, is what a team effort this whole project has been, and he stresses that a lot. So we appreciate how you couldn't have done it without your team either. And we want to speak to the entire team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One person that is very important, maybe this person can be very important, but it needs determining. Anybody can be replaced, but the team, the nucleus, determines the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your career, is there one person that has meant the most to you, either as a hero or as a co worker?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:42", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.790100160000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you very much. I believe this will be just the beginning for your story. You can add it and provide more details if you arrange interviews with the people I mentioned to you at the beginning. These people, on the Russian side, they were working in parallel and they were partners of people we were talking about on the American side. I am director of this program, but I always base myself on the experience and knowledge of the people. They are a key role, people in the program, and they play the main role in all this. I would like them to participate in this project, and I would like you to interview them if possible. I'm ready to help you to organize these interviews."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's one thing that Frank Culbertson has said, is what a team effort this whole project has been, and he stresses that a lot. So we appreciate how you couldn't have done it without your team either. And we want to speak to the entire team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One person that is very important, maybe this person can be very important, but it needs determining. Anybody can be replaced, but the team, the nucleus, determines the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your career, is there one person that has meant the most to you, either as a hero or as a co worker?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Tape interruption] People always try to solve. They should not postpone the decision, but they try to resolve the issue. I'm very grateful to all the people who participated in this program, and I consider all the people were very responsible and worked very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help choose them, the team members, or was it because of the jobs that they held already that they were part of the team?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:44", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2112224000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One person that is very important, maybe this person can be very important, but it needs determining. Anybody can be replaced, but the team, the nucleus, determines the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your career, is there one person that has meant the most to you, either as a hero or as a co worker?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Tape interruption] People always try to solve. They should not postpone the decision, but they try to resolve the issue. I'm very grateful to all the people who participated in this program, and I consider all the people were very responsible and worked very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help choose them, the team members, or was it because of the jobs that they held already that they were part of the team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time we didn't have any teams, any divisions, any leads of the divisions. For sure we had to select people. I tried to find people who had very good business abilities and qualities, and I wanted to find people with who I would be working very comfortably. With most of them I had been working for more than twenty years, and that's why I didn't have any difficulty in assigning these people. This are not just casual people who just showed up and I assigned them. Those people demonstrated that they can work and they can work very successfully. That's why they were assigned as managers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do these people go on to the International Space Station?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:46", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.679136000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Tape interruption] People always try to solve. They should not postpone the decision, but they try to resolve the issue. I'm very grateful to all the people who participated in this program, and I consider all the people were very responsible and worked very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help choose them, the team members, or was it because of the jobs that they held already that they were part of the team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time we didn't have any teams, any divisions, any leads of the divisions. For sure we had to select people. I tried to find people who had very good business abilities and qualities, and I wanted to find people with who I would be working very comfortably. With most of them I had been working for more than twenty years, and that's why I didn't have any difficulty in assigning these people. This are not just casual people who just showed up and I assigned them. Those people demonstrated that they can work and they can work very successfully. That's why they were assigned as managers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do these people go on to the International Space Station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For sure. They're working right now for it. We are trying to maintain continuity of all the people who were working successfully on the first phase, will continue working on the second phase, those who will be capable of dong this, taking into consideration their age and their health conditions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will the Mir be abandoned eventually, and what will then happen? Will it crash to the Earth?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:48", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.199040000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time we didn't have any teams, any divisions, any leads of the divisions. For sure we had to select people. I tried to find people who had very good business abilities and qualities, and I wanted to find people with who I would be working very comfortably. With most of them I had been working for more than twenty years, and that's why I didn't have any difficulty in assigning these people. This are not just casual people who just showed up and I assigned them. Those people demonstrated that they can work and they can work very successfully. That's why they were assigned as managers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do these people go on to the International Space Station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For sure. They're working right now for it. We are trying to maintain continuity of all the people who were working successfully on the first phase, will continue working on the second phase, those who will be capable of dong this, taking into consideration their age and their health conditions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will the Mir be abandoned eventually, and what will then happen? Will it crash to the Earth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are not planning to abandon it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe that was a poor term. Go ahead."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.665600000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For sure. They're working right now for it. We are trying to maintain continuity of all the people who were working successfully on the first phase, will continue working on the second phase, those who will be capable of dong this, taking into consideration their age and their health conditions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will the Mir be abandoned eventually, and what will then happen? Will it crash to the Earth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are not planning to abandon it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe that was a poor term. Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are trying to orbit it according to our plan. We need to decide when. It is not clear when we'll do it. It will depend on when we'll have FGB [Functional Group Block] and service module on orbit. These are two key modules of International Space Station. Once FGB and service module are on orbit, then we can start working on Mir deorbiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it will stay manned until you have your modules on station?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.184000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are not planning to abandon it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe that was a poor term. Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are trying to orbit it according to our plan. We need to decide when. It is not clear when we'll do it. It will depend on when we'll have FGB [Functional Group Block] and service module on orbit. These are two key modules of International Space Station. Once FGB and service module are on orbit, then we can start working on Mir deorbiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it will stay manned until you have your modules on station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe we'll not abandon it, because taking into consideration the age of the station, it would be very difficult for it to fly alone, and we'll try to maintain people there as long as possible. The age of the station requires permanent attendance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thanks again, for sharing your stories with us."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.760000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are trying to orbit it according to our plan. We need to decide when. It is not clear when we'll do it. It will depend on when we'll have FGB [Functional Group Block] and service module on orbit. These are two key modules of International Space Station. Once FGB and service module are on orbit, then we can start working on Mir deorbiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it will stay manned until you have your modules on station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe we'll not abandon it, because taking into consideration the age of the station, it would be very difficult for it to fly alone, and we'll try to maintain people there as long as possible. The age of the station requires permanent attendance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thanks again, for sharing your stories with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what's your favorite beer? I always ask this question. What's your favorite beer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.4, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe we'll not abandon it, because taking into consideration the age of the station, it would be very difficult for it to fly alone, and we'll try to maintain people there as long as possible. The age of the station requires permanent attendance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thanks again, for sharing your stories with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what's your favorite beer? I always ask this question. What's your favorite beer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't like beer very much. Not very often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you please tell him that we look forward to speaking with him after he returns, and once again we offer our sincere apologies. Thank you for your advice on how to do it better."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00807:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 6.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what's your favorite beer? I always ask this question. What's your favorite beer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't like beer very much. Not very often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you please tell him that we look forward to speaking with him after he returns, and once again we offer our sincere apologies. Thank you for your advice on how to do it better."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe if you have questions, not very big questions which will not require a lot of time, we will be able to find time and arrange another interview. I believe we'll be able to see once you're done with your work, and I would like to hear what I have told you. I believe Mr. Culbertson knows where I can find you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes. Tell him we look forward to talking with him soon, for him to schedule the interviews."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.056294935021723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I finished high school here. I moved here and did my sophomore year on. When I graduated, my dad said, “Well, now it’s time to get a job.” I hadn’t even thought about that, I thought I was going on to school. They were hiring on the Base, so I took the civil service exam and I was placed at NACA. I was a clerk-typist in the Instrument Service Branch. I worked there for almost six years, and then stopped before my first child was born. During that time we met and worked together in the same office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you living? You were living in the Lancaster area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was carpooling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were you carpooling with, other women? Or were there other people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started out with my dad, because he was working on the Base also. Then I ended up with just different fellows. I was always in the carpool with all men, because that’s who lived near where I was. We carpooled. I guess the interesting thing about that was we used to just go down Division Street and drive directly across the Rosamond Dry Lake to pick up the road onto the base. Just everybody was out there, it would be 20 cars wide, and we all had an entry place and an exit place. That was the short cut, made the ride 15, 20 minutes shorter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just take off right across the lake."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.284772150024137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was carpooling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were you carpooling with, other women? Or were there other people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started out with my dad, because he was working on the Base also. Then I ended up with just different fellows. I was always in the carpool with all men, because that’s who lived near where I was. We carpooled. I guess the interesting thing about that was we used to just go down Division Street and drive directly across the Rosamond Dry Lake to pick up the road onto the base. Just everybody was out there, it would be 20 cars wide, and we all had an entry place and an exit place. That was the short cut, made the ride 15, 20 minutes shorter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just take off right across the lake."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t have to commute because I lived on the Base. My dad was a military man, so I came to the Base when I was 12 years old. We had lived in a whole bunch of different places—in fact we were in Panama when the war [World War II] broke out. They made the families come back and ultimately we ended up out here. I’ve never left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is interesting, growing up in a military environment, and then continuing that with your career. It probably felt very comfortable to you."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 12.53863572224904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started out with my dad, because he was working on the Base also. Then I ended up with just different fellows. I was always in the carpool with all men, because that’s who lived near where I was. We carpooled. I guess the interesting thing about that was we used to just go down Division Street and drive directly across the Rosamond Dry Lake to pick up the road onto the base. Just everybody was out there, it would be 20 cars wide, and we all had an entry place and an exit place. That was the short cut, made the ride 15, 20 minutes shorter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just take off right across the lake."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t have to commute because I lived on the Base. My dad was a military man, so I came to the Base when I was 12 years old. We had lived in a whole bunch of different places—in fact we were in Panama when the war [World War II] broke out. They made the families come back and ultimately we ended up out here. I’ve never left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is interesting, growing up in a military environment, and then continuing that with your career. It probably felt very comfortable to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I was acquainted with the aeronautical work, just because it was a military base. I didn’t realize it at the time, but NACA guys were there from Langley, and they were working on breaking the sound barrier. I really wasn’t too much aware of that in high school, until I got my job. I knew it was going on, but I was just a kid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t really paying attention to the historical aspects?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.265150802498932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t have to commute because I lived on the Base. My dad was a military man, so I came to the Base when I was 12 years old. We had lived in a whole bunch of different places—in fact we were in Panama when the war [World War II] broke out. They made the families come back and ultimately we ended up out here. I’ve never left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is interesting, growing up in a military environment, and then continuing that with your career. It probably felt very comfortable to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I was acquainted with the aeronautical work, just because it was a military base. I didn’t realize it at the time, but NACA guys were there from Langley, and they were working on breaking the sound barrier. I really wasn’t too much aware of that in high school, until I got my job. I knew it was going on, but I was just a kid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t really paying attention to the historical aspects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I actually got to sit in the seat of the [Bell] X-1 that broke the sound barrier. My dad worked in the hangar. He took me to work one day. The X-1 was in the hangar, and they let a 12-year-old go over and sit in it, or 13-year-old. It had the old Flying Wings [Northrop YB-49]. Have you ever seen the old Flying Wings that were before? They were in there. This was before I even got in there, and I was just a kid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that piqued your interest though, being around it all the time? Did you ever think about doing anything other than aeronautics or working in this field?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.072389780554369, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I was acquainted with the aeronautical work, just because it was a military base. I didn’t realize it at the time, but NACA guys were there from Langley, and they were working on breaking the sound barrier. I really wasn’t too much aware of that in high school, until I got my job. I knew it was going on, but I was just a kid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t really paying attention to the historical aspects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I actually got to sit in the seat of the [Bell] X-1 that broke the sound barrier. My dad worked in the hangar. He took me to work one day. The X-1 was in the hangar, and they let a 12-year-old go over and sit in it, or 13-year-old. It had the old Flying Wings [Northrop YB-49]. Have you ever seen the old Flying Wings that were before? They were in there. This was before I even got in there, and I was just a kid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that piqued your interest though, being around it all the time? Did you ever think about doing anything other than aeronautics or working in this field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I hadn’t thought about it, I had not really zeroed in on it. I was going to be an engineer, that’s why I went to UCLA. I was interested in scientific things. I guess when my dad got that first job for me at NACA, I hadn’t decided this is where I’m going to be. It was just natural to go back there after school, because I was living on the Base again. My dad was still a military man, so I could still live on the Base. It wasn’t till my dad died that we had to move off the Base because my mother was a civilian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you move to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.7470997561715205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I actually got to sit in the seat of the [Bell] X-1 that broke the sound barrier. My dad worked in the hangar. He took me to work one day. The X-1 was in the hangar, and they let a 12-year-old go over and sit in it, or 13-year-old. It had the old Flying Wings [Northrop YB-49]. Have you ever seen the old Flying Wings that were before? They were in there. This was before I even got in there, and I was just a kid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that piqued your interest though, being around it all the time? Did you ever think about doing anything other than aeronautics or working in this field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I hadn’t thought about it, I had not really zeroed in on it. I was going to be an engineer, that’s why I went to UCLA. I was interested in scientific things. I guess when my dad got that first job for me at NACA, I hadn’t decided this is where I’m going to be. It was just natural to go back there after school, because I was living on the Base again. My dad was still a military man, so I could still live on the Base. It wasn’t till my dad died that we had to move off the Base because my mother was a civilian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you move to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We moved to North Edwards, which is on the other side of the Base. My mother wanted to stay close there, so she just moved to Kern County on the north side of the Base, North Edwards over there, a little small community. She bought a house. Then later I lived there with her, and that was a short commute in to the Base, until I met Nona, and we married and moved to Lancaster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mrs. Curley, you mentioned that your father worked on the Base. What did he do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.496777506857245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I hadn’t thought about it, I had not really zeroed in on it. I was going to be an engineer, that’s why I went to UCLA. I was interested in scientific things. I guess when my dad got that first job for me at NACA, I hadn’t decided this is where I’m going to be. It was just natural to go back there after school, because I was living on the Base again. My dad was still a military man, so I could still live on the Base. It wasn’t till my dad died that we had to move off the Base because my mother was a civilian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you move to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We moved to North Edwards, which is on the other side of the Base. My mother wanted to stay close there, so she just moved to Kern County on the north side of the Base, North Edwards over there, a little small community. She bought a house. Then later I lived there with her, and that was a short commute in to the Base, until I met Nona, and we married and moved to Lancaster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mrs. Curley, you mentioned that your father worked on the Base. What did he do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in construction. He did a lot of the building, and he was involved in a big hangar project. Just down the taxiway from NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about when you both started working, you came back to that area, that’s where you were working. During that time period there weren’t as many women as there are now working at NASA Centers. What was the social aspect of that time period? Were there organized things for you to take part in, picnics, dances, those sort of things? How did you spend your time during the day? Did you go to lunch together? Was there a cafeteria?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.218641674285828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We moved to North Edwards, which is on the other side of the Base. My mother wanted to stay close there, so she just moved to Kern County on the north side of the Base, North Edwards over there, a little small community. She bought a house. Then later I lived there with her, and that was a short commute in to the Base, until I met Nona, and we married and moved to Lancaster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mrs. Curley, you mentioned that your father worked on the Base. What did he do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in construction. He did a lot of the building, and he was involved in a big hangar project. Just down the taxiway from NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about when you both started working, you came back to that area, that’s where you were working. During that time period there weren’t as many women as there are now working at NASA Centers. What was the social aspect of that time period? Were there organized things for you to take part in, picnics, dances, those sort of things? How did you spend your time during the day? Did you go to lunch together? Was there a cafeteria?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they had a place, a cafeteria to eat, they had a place to eat. They had activities. They would have summer picnics that people would go to. Actually they had a bowling league at one time. But it’s hard for me to remember whether it was NACA or NASA. But there were periods of time. Well, it was about the time we got married I was bowling. There were bowling leagues. I actually played on the facility basketball team. They had a basketball team that played in town in the town league. All my good friends, the fellows, were all guys I played basketball with. Neil [A.] Armstrong was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he play basketball?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.020712971428697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in construction. He did a lot of the building, and he was involved in a big hangar project. Just down the taxiway from NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about when you both started working, you came back to that area, that’s where you were working. During that time period there weren’t as many women as there are now working at NASA Centers. What was the social aspect of that time period? Were there organized things for you to take part in, picnics, dances, those sort of things? How did you spend your time during the day? Did you go to lunch together? Was there a cafeteria?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they had a place, a cafeteria to eat, they had a place to eat. They had activities. They would have summer picnics that people would go to. Actually they had a bowling league at one time. But it’s hard for me to remember whether it was NACA or NASA. But there were periods of time. Well, it was about the time we got married I was bowling. There were bowling leagues. I actually played on the facility basketball team. They had a basketball team that played in town in the town league. All my good friends, the fellows, were all guys I played basketball with. Neil [A.] Armstrong was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he play basketball?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He wasn’t very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you carpooled mainly with men, but did you have a group of women friends that you met or that you did things with?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.911903301587442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they had a place, a cafeteria to eat, they had a place to eat. They had activities. They would have summer picnics that people would go to. Actually they had a bowling league at one time. But it’s hard for me to remember whether it was NACA or NASA. But there were periods of time. Well, it was about the time we got married I was bowling. There were bowling leagues. I actually played on the facility basketball team. They had a basketball team that played in town in the town league. All my good friends, the fellows, were all guys I played basketball with. Neil [A.] Armstrong was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he play basketball?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He wasn’t very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you carpooled mainly with men, but did you have a group of women friends that you met or that you did things with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I knew the women in the building. We would have to go to each other with questions with secretarial duties from time to time. I didn’t socialize with them. There just really wasn’t time for it I guess. The men I rode with, most of them were men from World War II, they were middle-aged men. They were always very respectful. We had some really interesting conversations. They wouldn’t really talk about war experiences, but they would give you background on how they did and that type of thing. I really wasn’t involved in the social activities. Even after we were married he would have lunch with the fellows, and I don’t even remember what I did, or where I went. Probably at my desk. But we were careful not to socialize in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any awareness of what NACA was doing before you started?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.902114779541602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He wasn’t very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you carpooled mainly with men, but did you have a group of women friends that you met or that you did things with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I knew the women in the building. We would have to go to each other with questions with secretarial duties from time to time. I didn’t socialize with them. There just really wasn’t time for it I guess. The men I rode with, most of them were men from World War II, they were middle-aged men. They were always very respectful. We had some really interesting conversations. They wouldn’t really talk about war experiences, but they would give you background on how they did and that type of thing. I really wasn’t involved in the social activities. Even after we were married he would have lunch with the fellows, and I don’t even remember what I did, or where I went. Probably at my desk. But we were careful not to socialize in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any awareness of what NACA was doing before you started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had never heard of it. When I went in there, it was completely new to me, learning the aeronautical language. I took business courses in high school, so I had no background in this. It was very interesting though. My particular job was just the regular filing and typing, that type of thing, but the work of the Center was very interesting. I always enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As far as learning that aeronautical language, was there any type of training when you were here, when you first started, or information that they gave you so that you could come up to speed on things that you needed to know?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.891499727829137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I knew the women in the building. We would have to go to each other with questions with secretarial duties from time to time. I didn’t socialize with them. There just really wasn’t time for it I guess. The men I rode with, most of them were men from World War II, they were middle-aged men. They were always very respectful. We had some really interesting conversations. They wouldn’t really talk about war experiences, but they would give you background on how they did and that type of thing. I really wasn’t involved in the social activities. Even after we were married he would have lunch with the fellows, and I don’t even remember what I did, or where I went. Probably at my desk. But we were careful not to socialize in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any awareness of what NACA was doing before you started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had never heard of it. When I went in there, it was completely new to me, learning the aeronautical language. I took business courses in high school, so I had no background in this. It was very interesting though. My particular job was just the regular filing and typing, that type of thing, but the work of the Center was very interesting. I always enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As far as learning that aeronautical language, was there any type of training when you were here, when you first started, or information that they gave you so that you could come up to speed on things that you needed to know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. I think it was learn as you go. These new words were popping up. You just picked them up as you went on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work in a pool of other women, or did you work individually?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.196844619793055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had never heard of it. When I went in there, it was completely new to me, learning the aeronautical language. I took business courses in high school, so I had no background in this. It was very interesting though. My particular job was just the regular filing and typing, that type of thing, but the work of the Center was very interesting. I always enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As far as learning that aeronautical language, was there any type of training when you were here, when you first started, or information that they gave you so that you could come up to speed on things that you needed to know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. I think it was learn as you go. These new words were popping up. You just picked them up as you went on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work in a pool of other women, or did you work individually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was in the Calibration Office, and it was all fellows. Then later on there was a woman who came to work in calibration, so there was another lady in the office. My desk was in the office with all of the calibrators. Then I had business to do with the Repair Shop and the Instrument Construction Shop, so I had associations with those men. I did their typing and their filing also.\n\nYes, there were three shops together in the same branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this Instrumentation and Calibration? Was that the branch?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.552049577547837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. I think it was learn as you go. These new words were popping up. You just picked them up as you went on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work in a pool of other women, or did you work individually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was in the Calibration Office, and it was all fellows. Then later on there was a woman who came to work in calibration, so there was another lady in the office. My desk was in the office with all of the calibrators. Then I had business to do with the Repair Shop and the Instrument Construction Shop, so I had associations with those men. I did their typing and their filing also.\n\nYes, there were three shops together in the same branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this Instrumentation and Calibration? Was that the branch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was a group of us that did calibration, and then there were people, construction, they built things, like a machine shop. Then there were instrument repair guys, so they would repair the instruments, and we would calibrate them. You actually worked on the data stuff.\n\nA little bit. That was a short time.\n\nYes. See, we had to prepare the calibrations that they would use to develop the test data. The instruments we calibrated went into the vehicles that were being tested. We had to have calibrations like big curves so when they took the data they could determine how fast they went and how high they were and all those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you were learning those skills starting when you were pretty young, and then when you came back was that still just an informal learning from people that had been there before? Did you have any type of formal training on site to help you learn those skills?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.94672175283093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was in the Calibration Office, and it was all fellows. Then later on there was a woman who came to work in calibration, so there was another lady in the office. My desk was in the office with all of the calibrators. Then I had business to do with the Repair Shop and the Instrument Construction Shop, so I had associations with those men. I did their typing and their filing also.\n\nYes, there were three shops together in the same branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this Instrumentation and Calibration? Was that the branch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was a group of us that did calibration, and then there were people, construction, they built things, like a machine shop. Then there were instrument repair guys, so they would repair the instruments, and we would calibrate them. You actually worked on the data stuff.\n\nA little bit. That was a short time.\n\nYes. See, we had to prepare the calibrations that they would use to develop the test data. The instruments we calibrated went into the vehicles that were being tested. We had to have calibrations like big curves so when they took the data they could determine how fast they went and how high they were and all those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you were learning those skills starting when you were pretty young, and then when you came back was that still just an informal learning from people that had been there before? Did you have any type of formal training on site to help you learn those skills?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were experienced calibration people there. They would show you what to do, and they would let me do the more simple stuff to begin with, then you just work up. The leadership were almost all Langley people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any names that you remember?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:38", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.051913058701032, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was a group of us that did calibration, and then there were people, construction, they built things, like a machine shop. Then there were instrument repair guys, so they would repair the instruments, and we would calibrate them. You actually worked on the data stuff.\n\nA little bit. That was a short time.\n\nYes. See, we had to prepare the calibrations that they would use to develop the test data. The instruments we calibrated went into the vehicles that were being tested. We had to have calibrations like big curves so when they took the data they could determine how fast they went and how high they were and all those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you were learning those skills starting when you were pretty young, and then when you came back was that still just an informal learning from people that had been there before? Did you have any type of formal training on site to help you learn those skills?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were experienced calibration people there. They would show you what to do, and they would let me do the more simple stuff to begin with, then you just work up. The leadership were almost all Langley people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any names that you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, my boss was Ralph [M.] Pernula, and his boss was Russ [L. Russell] Mills, who was her boss as well. Ralph was over my calibration group, and then there were two other guys over the other groups. Russ Mills was over us. I never got an engineering degree, but Russ Mills, my boss—well, above my boss, my leader was Ralph—he encouraged me to take the civil service test, and they gave me an engineer’s rating. So I ended up, I had to take a cut in pay, but I think I was a GS-6 [Government Schedule pay scale] calibrator, but when I took the test they would only approve me for a GS-5 engineer. Russ Mills said, and I realized, it was the best thing to do, because I would have been more limited as a technician than I would be as an engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could move on from there."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:42", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.279903398556703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were experienced calibration people there. They would show you what to do, and they would let me do the more simple stuff to begin with, then you just work up. The leadership were almost all Langley people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any names that you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, my boss was Ralph [M.] Pernula, and his boss was Russ [L. Russell] Mills, who was her boss as well. Ralph was over my calibration group, and then there were two other guys over the other groups. Russ Mills was over us. I never got an engineering degree, but Russ Mills, my boss—well, above my boss, my leader was Ralph—he encouraged me to take the civil service test, and they gave me an engineer’s rating. So I ended up, I had to take a cut in pay, but I think I was a GS-6 [Government Schedule pay scale] calibrator, but when I took the test they would only approve me for a GS-5 engineer. Russ Mills said, and I realized, it was the best thing to do, because I would have been more limited as a technician than I would be as an engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could move on from there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s wonderful that they gave you that opportunity."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:44", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.533225998396336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, my boss was Ralph [M.] Pernula, and his boss was Russ [L. Russell] Mills, who was her boss as well. Ralph was over my calibration group, and then there were two other guys over the other groups. Russ Mills was over us. I never got an engineering degree, but Russ Mills, my boss—well, above my boss, my leader was Ralph—he encouraged me to take the civil service test, and they gave me an engineer’s rating. So I ended up, I had to take a cut in pay, but I think I was a GS-6 [Government Schedule pay scale] calibrator, but when I took the test they would only approve me for a GS-5 engineer. Russ Mills said, and I realized, it was the best thing to do, because I would have been more limited as a technician than I would be as an engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could move on from there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s wonderful that they gave you that opportunity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact years later one of the personnel directors came to me and I guess he raised the issue I didn’t have a college degree, and somebody, one of my bosses, had to go and talk to him about it doesn’t make any difference. This is the way it worked. I guess he thought I shouldn’t be where I was or something. It might have been a place where I was getting a promotion maybe. When you get to GS-11, 12, it gets a little bit harder in your job description to move up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you started everything was still out on the South Base?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:46", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.814695553773706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s wonderful that they gave you that opportunity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact years later one of the personnel directors came to me and I guess he raised the issue I didn’t have a college degree, and somebody, one of my bosses, had to go and talk to him about it doesn’t make any difference. This is the way it worked. I guess he thought I shouldn’t be where I was or something. It might have been a place where I was getting a promotion maybe. When you get to GS-11, 12, it gets a little bit harder in your job description to move up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you started everything was still out on the South Base?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "South Base. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you don’t mind, just talk about that for a minute, and the working environment out there and what that was like, and then when everything got built and moved to the Main Base in 1954. If you want to just talk about that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:48", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.127439504193006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact years later one of the personnel directors came to me and I guess he raised the issue I didn’t have a college degree, and somebody, one of my bosses, had to go and talk to him about it doesn’t make any difference. This is the way it worked. I guess he thought I shouldn’t be where I was or something. It might have been a place where I was getting a promotion maybe. When you get to GS-11, 12, it gets a little bit harder in your job description to move up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you started everything was still out on the South Base?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "South Base. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you don’t mind, just talk about that for a minute, and the working environment out there and what that was like, and then when everything got built and moved to the Main Base in 1954. If you want to just talk about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, actually I lived on South Base."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you live in the area for the single employees?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.030488337992228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "South Base. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you don’t mind, just talk about that for a minute, and the working environment out there and what that was like, and then when everything got built and moved to the Main Base in 1954. If you want to just talk about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, actually I lived on South Base."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you live in the area for the single employees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The South Gate used to come in by an old hospital area, and then it would go down by the runway and where the South Base was. They made that hospital part of it into housing for military people, because they didn’t have any housing on Base. When my dad first came here, we had to live in Lancaster for a year. So I went to grammar school in Lancaster. And then he moved us to this hospital area, and it was right inside the South Gate that went down to the Base.\\n\\n I was well acquainted with it, that’s where the theater was and the gym and the social club. I knew all that, I had been living there for six years. The first year I was there, our lab was actually in the hangar. NACA had a hangar on the old runway. On the side of the hangar, you know how they have offices and shops along the side? We were in there. I worked in there. If you went out the door, you were in where the airplanes were.\\n\\n Then they moved the Cal Lab across the road and down a ways into a building that had the old garage in it. The mechanic that took care of their cars was in part of the building with a garage and then the rest of the building was broke up into three offices for the Cal Lab and the repair and the construction shop and an office in the little building. It was just across the road from the runway. We could go out the door and look over and see planes landing on the runway. Then we moved to the new building when they built the new runway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you still living on the South Base when they built the new one and everybody moved to the main building?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:66", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.107671448406554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering since you worked with Langley people, and then you had people like you that were here already, working here, how that worked, and how that interaction was between—if you noticed those differences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I don’t know what it was like at Langley, but I don’t think there was that structure you talked about. The fellows that were above me to start with were Langley guys. They seemed comfortable with it too. These people, we were good friends, a small community we lived in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time Walt [Walter C.] Williams was the Director. You both I’m sure have experience with different things that he did and his style of being a Director. We’ve heard him described a lot of different ways, and always in glowing terms. Do you have any stories or any anecdotes or any thoughts about his directorship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I didn’t know him that well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel that as the Directors changed over time, even after NASA, did things change at the Center depending on who was the Director? Was there a different feeling as time went on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:68", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.008523831562838, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I don’t know what it was like at Langley, but I don’t think there was that structure you talked about. The fellows that were above me to start with were Langley guys. They seemed comfortable with it too. These people, we were good friends, a small community we lived in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time Walt [Walter C.] Williams was the Director. You both I’m sure have experience with different things that he did and his style of being a Director. We’ve heard him described a lot of different ways, and always in glowing terms. Do you have any stories or any anecdotes or any thoughts about his directorship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I didn’t know him that well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel that as the Directors changed over time, even after NASA, did things change at the Center depending on who was the Director? Was there a different feeling as time went on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess there were some Directors that did something a little different. Later on, they began to get into people that were more from the space program. Early on they were more aeronautical people, and I know Walt Williams went from that to space. Paul [F.] Bikle was a glider guy. He held the records. Then later on you had guys like Dave [David R.] Scott. You started getting astronauts. Yes, there was some change. The organization gets bigger. Even though I didn’t know Walt Williams very well, I think he knew who I was. Then later I got more into management, so I did have to deal more with the fellows that were up higher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned reports, like some of the engineers would write reports. Did you ever help them on any of the reports, or have any dealings with any of that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.898359812847598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I didn’t know him that well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel that as the Directors changed over time, even after NASA, did things change at the Center depending on who was the Director? Was there a different feeling as time went on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess there were some Directors that did something a little different. Later on, they began to get into people that were more from the space program. Early on they were more aeronautical people, and I know Walt Williams went from that to space. Paul [F.] Bikle was a glider guy. He held the records. Then later on you had guys like Dave [David R.] Scott. You started getting astronauts. Yes, there was some change. The organization gets bigger. Even though I didn’t know Walt Williams very well, I think he knew who I was. Then later I got more into management, so I did have to deal more with the fellows that were up higher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned reports, like some of the engineers would write reports. Did you ever help them on any of the reports, or have any dealings with any of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very often. I knew the fellows doing that, in fact once we were married I carpooled with Bob [Robert W.] Kempel, and he did a lot of the reporting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have to do any work as far as people doing reports in that area?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.887066458719554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess there were some Directors that did something a little different. Later on, they began to get into people that were more from the space program. Early on they were more aeronautical people, and I know Walt Williams went from that to space. Paul [F.] Bikle was a glider guy. He held the records. Then later on you had guys like Dave [David R.] Scott. You started getting astronauts. Yes, there was some change. The organization gets bigger. Even though I didn’t know Walt Williams very well, I think he knew who I was. Then later I got more into management, so I did have to deal more with the fellows that were up higher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned reports, like some of the engineers would write reports. Did you ever help them on any of the reports, or have any dealings with any of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very often. I knew the fellows doing that, in fact once we were married I carpooled with Bob [Robert W.] Kempel, and he did a lot of the reporting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have to do any work as far as people doing reports in that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember I typed a lot of papers, but they wouldn’t have been on that level. They were probably coming from just our Service Branch. That’s where I ran into the terminology, strange words popping up you’re trying to type and you’re not familiar with. It always slows you down.\\n\\n Oh, one thing I do remember is shortly after I went to work there I was given an electric typewriter. Up until then it was manual. That was the first time I had ever worked with an electric typewriter. It was special."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is really early on for electric typewriters."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.98562939857728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very often. I knew the fellows doing that, in fact once we were married I carpooled with Bob [Robert W.] Kempel, and he did a lot of the reporting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have to do any work as far as people doing reports in that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember I typed a lot of papers, but they wouldn’t have been on that level. They were probably coming from just our Service Branch. That’s where I ran into the terminology, strange words popping up you’re trying to type and you’re not familiar with. It always slows you down.\\n\\n Oh, one thing I do remember is shortly after I went to work there I was given an electric typewriter. Up until then it was manual. That was the first time I had ever worked with an electric typewriter. It was special."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is really early on for electric typewriters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. That was pretty nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned too, the technology changed, even in the time you were there, technology was changing."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.20625488730809, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember I typed a lot of papers, but they wouldn’t have been on that level. They were probably coming from just our Service Branch. That’s where I ran into the terminology, strange words popping up you’re trying to type and you’re not familiar with. It always slows you down.\\n\\n Oh, one thing I do remember is shortly after I went to work there I was given an electric typewriter. Up until then it was manual. That was the first time I had ever worked with an electric typewriter. It was special."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is really early on for electric typewriters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. That was pretty nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned too, the technology changed, even in the time you were there, technology was changing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the language changed again, when all the space terms started coming in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year did you get married?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.834882576923567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. That was pretty nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned too, the technology changed, even in the time you were there, technology was changing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the language changed again, when all the space terms started coming in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year did you get married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1961."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were married in ’61. You were actually married then after it became NASA. Let’s talk about that time in 1957 when the Sputnik [Russian satellite] launched. How aware were you in your day-to-day activities of that event, and was that something that you remember talking about at work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.372091752137296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the language changed again, when all the space terms started coming in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year did you get married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1961."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were married in ’61. You were actually married then after it became NASA. Let’s talk about that time in 1957 when the Sputnik [Russian satellite] launched. How aware were you in your day-to-day activities of that event, and was that something that you remember talking about at work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes.\n\nYes, it was talked about by everyone at the Center at the time. It was big news."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any idea of how that was going to affect your lives, as far as the work environment at that time? Were people already talking about moving?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:82", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.776531895935932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1961."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were married in ’61. You were actually married then after it became NASA. Let’s talk about that time in 1957 when the Sputnik [Russian satellite] launched. How aware were you in your day-to-day activities of that event, and was that something that you remember talking about at work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes.\n\nYes, it was talked about by everyone at the Center at the time. It was big news."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any idea of how that was going to affect your lives, as far as the work environment at that time? Were people already talking about moving?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took a year for the U.S. to respond. I don’t know whether we thought very much about what’s the U.S.’s response going to be, and the space organization. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the NACA did switch over in 1958, when that happened, how did that affect what was going on? Was it just one day you had a NACA badge, the next day you had a NASA badge?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:84", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.307257662151034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes.\n\nYes, it was talked about by everyone at the Center at the time. It was big news."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any idea of how that was going to affect your lives, as far as the work environment at that time? Were people already talking about moving?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took a year for the U.S. to respond. I don’t know whether we thought very much about what’s the U.S.’s response going to be, and the space organization. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the NACA did switch over in 1958, when that happened, how did that affect what was going on? Was it just one day you had a NACA badge, the next day you had a NASA badge?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. I think you’re going to interview Don [Donald L.] Hallberg on Friday. I saw Don yesterday at a funeral.\n\nHe also worked in the office with us.\n\nDon worked with us. He was my best friend then. We did everything together until we got married, and go off with your families. I was talking to him, and we were both of the opinion, well, one day we worked for NACA and the next day we worked for NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn’t any big difference as far as you were concerned."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.355634653156425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took a year for the U.S. to respond. I don’t know whether we thought very much about what’s the U.S.’s response going to be, and the space organization. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the NACA did switch over in 1958, when that happened, how did that affect what was going on? Was it just one day you had a NACA badge, the next day you had a NASA badge?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. I think you’re going to interview Don [Donald L.] Hallberg on Friday. I saw Don yesterday at a funeral.\n\nHe also worked in the office with us.\n\nDon worked with us. He was my best friend then. We did everything together until we got married, and go off with your families. I was talking to him, and we were both of the opinion, well, one day we worked for NACA and the next day we worked for NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn’t any big difference as far as you were concerned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It took a while, I think, for things to grow and get bigger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In those first days after NASA formed and then that focus was more towards spaceflight, a lot of the other Centers—of course then Johnson [Space Center, Houston, Texas, originally named Manned Spacecraft Center] came along and different Centers, that was their main focus, and that was pretty much it. But out here, there was still so much aeronautical research going on. I think there was also a lot of things happening I guess under the radar, like the Lifting Bodies and Paresev [Paraglider Research Vehicle] and the different things that they were looking at for returning from space that the public wasn’t as aware of what was going on out here. If you want to talk about that time period, and maybe some of the things that were going on."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.601386895547058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They had enough money I think to put together something and fly. You could always watch it. All you had to do was go outside and watch it on the lake. They did most of that stuff on the dry lake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a lot of the test pilots that were here, and the things that they were doing. Did you have any interaction with any of them? You mentioned Neil Armstrong not being very good at basketball. Some of the other test pilots, especially since it was such a dangerous thing, the research and what the pilots were doing, and there were accidents that happened, and you lost people. If you want to just talk about some of that, and how that affected the Center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There were a lot of accidents. In fact I was somewhat associated with them, because I lived on the Base before then. A good friend of my father’s was killed in I think it was a [Boeing] B-47 [Stratojet] that crashed. It happened fairly regular. You go to the Base, all the streets are named for pilots that died in accidents. Yes, I can remember the day the [North American X]B-70 [Valkyrie] crashed. I’m trying to think of names now. I can’t think of his name.\n\nJoe [Joseph A.] Walker?\n\nJoe Walker was the one that was killed. But I’m thinking one of the other pilots got in a [Lockheed F-]104 [Starfighter] and went out to look at the site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don [Donald L.] Mallick, I think in his book was talking about going out and looking at the site. It was him and somebody else he was with [James “Doc” Roman]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I remember being out in back of the Calibration Lab, I guess nobody had heard that they were all dead. I guess they assumed they were. The one pilot came back and landed, and he walked back up to the building. There was a group of us standing there, and he said, “He’s gone.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that was very difficult, especially if you knew them socially and worked with them."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.618996167342047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There were a lot of accidents. In fact I was somewhat associated with them, because I lived on the Base before then. A good friend of my father’s was killed in I think it was a [Boeing] B-47 [Stratojet] that crashed. It happened fairly regular. You go to the Base, all the streets are named for pilots that died in accidents. Yes, I can remember the day the [North American X]B-70 [Valkyrie] crashed. I’m trying to think of names now. I can’t think of his name.\n\nJoe [Joseph A.] Walker?\n\nJoe Walker was the one that was killed. But I’m thinking one of the other pilots got in a [Lockheed F-]104 [Starfighter] and went out to look at the site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don [Donald L.] Mallick, I think in his book was talking about going out and looking at the site. It was him and somebody else he was with [James “Doc” Roman]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I remember being out in back of the Calibration Lab, I guess nobody had heard that they were all dead. I guess they assumed they were. The one pilot came back and landed, and he walked back up to the building. There was a group of us standing there, and he said, “He’s gone.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that was very difficult, especially if you knew them socially and worked with them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was an [North American] X-15 accident with an Air Force pilot [Michael J. Adams]. I did not know him. I did not know him. I didn’t know some of the Air Force pilots that flew in the X-15 Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about the X-1, when it first flew it was very hush-hush because the U.S. was trying to do something and they didn’t necessarily want anyone to know that they had broken the sound barrier at the beginning. With X-15, there were a lot of—in working so close with the Air Force—there were a lot of projects, programs that were classified or highly classified. Did you have to have any kind of special clearance?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.798884630380051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I remember being out in back of the Calibration Lab, I guess nobody had heard that they were all dead. I guess they assumed they were. The one pilot came back and landed, and he walked back up to the building. There was a group of us standing there, and he said, “He’s gone.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that was very difficult, especially if you knew them socially and worked with them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was an [North American] X-15 accident with an Air Force pilot [Michael J. Adams]. I did not know him. I did not know him. I didn’t know some of the Air Force pilots that flew in the X-15 Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about the X-1, when it first flew it was very hush-hush because the U.S. was trying to do something and they didn’t necessarily want anyone to know that they had broken the sound barrier at the beginning. With X-15, there were a lot of—in working so close with the Air Force—there were a lot of projects, programs that were classified or highly classified. Did you have to have any kind of special clearance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I did. I don’t think you did, did you?\n\nI had a secret clearance because of documents that I handled. Because I had to go sit up in the branch office from time to time to fill in, and I had to put documents in and out of the safe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like getting that clearance? Do you remember what that process was like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.10987181153339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was an [North American] X-15 accident with an Air Force pilot [Michael J. Adams]. I did not know him. I did not know him. I didn’t know some of the Air Force pilots that flew in the X-15 Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about the X-1, when it first flew it was very hush-hush because the U.S. was trying to do something and they didn’t necessarily want anyone to know that they had broken the sound barrier at the beginning. With X-15, there were a lot of—in working so close with the Air Force—there were a lot of projects, programs that were classified or highly classified. Did you have to have any kind of special clearance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I did. I don’t think you did, did you?\n\nI had a secret clearance because of documents that I handled. Because I had to go sit up in the branch office from time to time to fill in, and I had to put documents in and out of the safe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like getting that clearance? Do you remember what that process was like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember my neighbors wondered why they were being questioned about me. They would do some kind of investigation. I don’t know any details of it, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the same thing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.010968679481543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I did. I don’t think you did, did you?\n\nI had a secret clearance because of documents that I handled. Because I had to go sit up in the branch office from time to time to fill in, and I had to put documents in and out of the safe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like getting that clearance? Do you remember what that process was like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember my neighbors wondered why they were being questioned about me. They would do some kind of investigation. I don’t know any details of it, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the same thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in fact, I looked at it last night. I went and looked at some things, so I could refresh times and memories. I’ll show them to you. I even found my three job applications for ’54, ’56. I was only with NACA for four years, but it was over a period of six. Well, it was more than that, because I kept having breaks, one year, then a break, then two years and another break, then another year, and then we were into NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the earlier years at NACA do you remember or recall any visits from famous people, or people that would have been memorable visits to the Center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:112", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.678854088312827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember my neighbors wondered why they were being questioned about me. They would do some kind of investigation. I don’t know any details of it, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the same thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in fact, I looked at it last night. I went and looked at some things, so I could refresh times and memories. I’ll show them to you. I even found my three job applications for ’54, ’56. I was only with NACA for four years, but it was over a period of six. Well, it was more than that, because I kept having breaks, one year, then a break, then two years and another break, then another year, and then we were into NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the earlier years at NACA do you remember or recall any visits from famous people, or people that would have been memorable visits to the Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The famous people who came of course was all with space. [President Lyndon B.] Johnson and [President Ronald] Reagan. I do remember at NACA a bunch of the leaders flew out, and it might have been for the new building, I’m trying to think what it was. They got us young guys in the Cal Lab, they sent us over to the Main Base, and the people that I guess were coming from Langley or someplace, they landed in an airplane, and we went to get their baggage. They sent us, we were the young guys at the bottom. They sent us to get the baggage and put it in a van and bring it from the runway. I don’t remember what the occasion was. I don’t remember who the people were, it must have been [Hugh L.] Dryden and some of those people I guess. These are important guys, everything has to be done just right. That’s the only thing I recall. I don’t remember them doing too much more, I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your job description you were moving man, baggage handler, calibration, you did a little bit of everything."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:114", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.420948987014252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in fact, I looked at it last night. I went and looked at some things, so I could refresh times and memories. I’ll show them to you. I even found my three job applications for ’54, ’56. I was only with NACA for four years, but it was over a period of six. Well, it was more than that, because I kept having breaks, one year, then a break, then two years and another break, then another year, and then we were into NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the earlier years at NACA do you remember or recall any visits from famous people, or people that would have been memorable visits to the Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The famous people who came of course was all with space. [President Lyndon B.] Johnson and [President Ronald] Reagan. I do remember at NACA a bunch of the leaders flew out, and it might have been for the new building, I’m trying to think what it was. They got us young guys in the Cal Lab, they sent us over to the Main Base, and the people that I guess were coming from Langley or someplace, they landed in an airplane, and we went to get their baggage. They sent us, we were the young guys at the bottom. They sent us to get the baggage and put it in a van and bring it from the runway. I don’t remember what the occasion was. I don’t remember who the people were, it must have been [Hugh L.] Dryden and some of those people I guess. These are important guys, everything has to be done just right. That’s the only thing I recall. I don’t remember them doing too much more, I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your job description you were moving man, baggage handler, calibration, you did a little bit of everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whatever was needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. That seemed to be a spirit, from what I’ve read. Out here especially in this area, at this Center, that it was pretty much whatever was needed, you did it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:116", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.24549887446028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The famous people who came of course was all with space. [President Lyndon B.] Johnson and [President Ronald] Reagan. I do remember at NACA a bunch of the leaders flew out, and it might have been for the new building, I’m trying to think what it was. They got us young guys in the Cal Lab, they sent us over to the Main Base, and the people that I guess were coming from Langley or someplace, they landed in an airplane, and we went to get their baggage. They sent us, we were the young guys at the bottom. They sent us to get the baggage and put it in a van and bring it from the runway. I don’t remember what the occasion was. I don’t remember who the people were, it must have been [Hugh L.] Dryden and some of those people I guess. These are important guys, everything has to be done just right. That’s the only thing I recall. I don’t remember them doing too much more, I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your job description you were moving man, baggage handler, calibration, you did a little bit of everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whatever was needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. That seemed to be a spirit, from what I’ve read. Out here especially in this area, at this Center, that it was pretty much whatever was needed, you did it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people I worked with were my best friends, we were together all the time when we were apart from work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was small too. There weren’t as many people here."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:118", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.161665416066977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whatever was needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. That seemed to be a spirit, from what I’ve read. Out here especially in this area, at this Center, that it was pretty much whatever was needed, you did it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people I worked with were my best friends, we were together all the time when we were apart from work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was small too. There weren’t as many people here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We used to do things on weekends, a lot of the single people would get together and go to the mountains or someplace, we were always doing things. I used to go backpacking with some of the engineers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got married in ’61 you said? Did you continue working for a while afterwards?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:120", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.076130143292563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people I worked with were my best friends, we were together all the time when we were apart from work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was small too. There weren’t as many people here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We used to do things on weekends, a lot of the single people would get together and go to the mountains or someplace, we were always doing things. I used to go backpacking with some of the engineers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got married in ’61 you said? Did you continue working for a while afterwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did for almost a year, well, most of that year; I stopped before our first baby was born."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live when you got married?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:122", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.195700159213958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We used to do things on weekends, a lot of the single people would get together and go to the mountains or someplace, we were always doing things. I used to go backpacking with some of the engineers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got married in ’61 you said? Did you continue working for a while afterwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did for almost a year, well, most of that year; I stopped before our first baby was born."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live when you got married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived in Lancaster.\n\nYes. We’ve always lived here. We’ve moved a couple of times, we rented at first, and rented several times before we bought a house. We’re in the same house we bought. We’ve been in there a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just drove to work together after that I assume."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:124", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.821852048412294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did for almost a year, well, most of that year; I stopped before our first baby was born."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live when you got married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived in Lancaster.\n\nYes. We’ve always lived here. We’ve moved a couple of times, we rented at first, and rented several times before we bought a house. We’re in the same house we bought. We’ve been in there a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just drove to work together after that I assume."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually we carpooled. His brother and his wife lived just down the street form us, so we carpooled together for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They worked also at the Center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:126", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.913168942680327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived in Lancaster.\n\nYes. We’ve always lived here. We’ve moved a couple of times, we rented at first, and rented several times before we bought a house. We’re in the same house we bought. We’ve been in there a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just drove to work together after that I assume."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually we carpooled. His brother and his wife lived just down the street form us, so we carpooled together for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They worked also at the Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. They both were at the Center.\n\nYes, my next brother worked there for a while. He didn’t make a career of it, but he worked there when he was young. He eventually went into law enforcement, ATF [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms] agent, Treasury [Department]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As far as the NACA, is there anything that comes to mind that you think would be the most significant thing that you did while it was still NACA, or any other anecdotes about that time period that you can think of?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.014632158533697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually we carpooled. His brother and his wife lived just down the street form us, so we carpooled together for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They worked also at the Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. They both were at the Center.\n\nYes, my next brother worked there for a while. He didn’t make a career of it, but he worked there when he was young. He eventually went into law enforcement, ATF [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms] agent, Treasury [Department]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As far as the NACA, is there anything that comes to mind that you think would be the most significant thing that you did while it was still NACA, or any other anecdotes about that time period that you can think of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I looked at that list of things. My NACA time was mostly me just learning the trade and progressing. I went from an engineering aide to calibrator. They were always changing titles, and then you go through calibrator. Then they gave me an engineer’s rating, like I told you, through the civil service exam. Then I had a more responsible position in the Cal Lab. They would let me do the more important things. Then Don Hallberg was my boss for a while. The organization would change character every once in a while. People would move up. Don didn’t like it, so then I became a branch head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:134", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.425471800658884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I looked at that list of things. My NACA time was mostly me just learning the trade and progressing. I went from an engineering aide to calibrator. They were always changing titles, and then you go through calibrator. Then they gave me an engineer’s rating, like I told you, through the civil service exam. Then I had a more responsible position in the Cal Lab. They would let me do the more important things. Then Don Hallberg was my boss for a while. The organization would change character every once in a while. People would move up. Don didn’t like it, so then I became a branch head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember. That would have been in NASA. It would have been after NACA. NACA, I was still just an instrument calibrator. I think I was GS-6 and then went back to 5 as an engineer. Then I worked my way up through the engineers. Then they did—well, this was NASA—NASA did a big reorganization, they changed the whole organization. They formed a facility manager group, and they asked me to be a facility manager for calibration and test. That’s when I worked for John McTigue. The Director then was the pilot [John A. Manke], and he became the Director. Well, of course there’s the time we were under Ames too. There was a while there, Ames was the big Center, and we weren’t, so they put us under Ames.\\n\\n You used to have to fly to Ames to coordinate with people, and then, well, now Ames has gone away, and Armstrong is the bigger Center. Things change. Yes, I tried to think, but I don’t know that I did anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don’t know what I would call something significant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that strikes you that you worked on during that time that you remember as being interesting or something that jumps out in your mind?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:136", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.139413111843204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember. That would have been in NASA. It would have been after NACA. NACA, I was still just an instrument calibrator. I think I was GS-6 and then went back to 5 as an engineer. Then I worked my way up through the engineers. Then they did—well, this was NASA—NASA did a big reorganization, they changed the whole organization. They formed a facility manager group, and they asked me to be a facility manager for calibration and test. That’s when I worked for John McTigue. The Director then was the pilot [John A. Manke], and he became the Director. Well, of course there’s the time we were under Ames too. There was a while there, Ames was the big Center, and we weren’t, so they put us under Ames.\\n\\n You used to have to fly to Ames to coordinate with people, and then, well, now Ames has gone away, and Armstrong is the bigger Center. Things change. Yes, I tried to think, but I don’t know that I did anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don’t know what I would call something significant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that strikes you that you worked on during that time that you remember as being interesting or something that jumps out in your mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of the aircraft projects were interesting to me. The fellows would take me out back and show me what was going on and explain things to me, and I saw a lot of special landings of different crafts. Usually we couldn’t see the takeoffs, they were too far away. They were down the other end. It just was all very interesting. I think the X-15, I don’t remember if that came while it was still NACA or if that was after NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was ’60, I think, 1959 or 1960."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.8215701242702265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don’t know what I would call something significant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that strikes you that you worked on during that time that you remember as being interesting or something that jumps out in your mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of the aircraft projects were interesting to me. The fellows would take me out back and show me what was going on and explain things to me, and I saw a lot of special landings of different crafts. Usually we couldn’t see the takeoffs, they were too far away. They were down the other end. It just was all very interesting. I think the X-15, I don’t remember if that came while it was still NACA or if that was after NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was ’60, I think, 1959 or 1960."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was, yes. I think it was a little bit later, we’d go out and watch all those landings. I was thinking about it the other day. The fellows acted more like fathers to me and showing me around and teaching me all the information and showing me how things worked. It just was very interesting to me, because it was something that was all entirely new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something that you weren’t necessarily expecting to do when you were still in school?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:140", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.579522360300252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of the aircraft projects were interesting to me. The fellows would take me out back and show me what was going on and explain things to me, and I saw a lot of special landings of different crafts. Usually we couldn’t see the takeoffs, they were too far away. They were down the other end. It just was all very interesting. I think the X-15, I don’t remember if that came while it was still NACA or if that was after NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was ’60, I think, 1959 or 1960."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was, yes. I think it was a little bit later, we’d go out and watch all those landings. I was thinking about it the other day. The fellows acted more like fathers to me and showing me around and teaching me all the information and showing me how things worked. It just was very interesting to me, because it was something that was all entirely new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something that you weren’t necessarily expecting to do when you were still in school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no idea I was going to do something like that. But I always enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you came here when you were a sophomore in high school to the area."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:142", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.421691511444724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was, yes. I think it was a little bit later, we’d go out and watch all those landings. I was thinking about it the other day. The fellows acted more like fathers to me and showing me around and teaching me all the information and showing me how things worked. It just was very interesting to me, because it was something that was all entirely new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something that you weren’t necessarily expecting to do when you were still in school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no idea I was going to do something like that. But I always enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you came here when you were a sophomore in high school to the area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did your family come from?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:144", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.135212790494139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no idea I was going to do something like that. But I always enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you came here when you were a sophomore in high school to the area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did your family come from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Indiana, but my dad followed construction jobs on the Bases, so we traveled all over the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is quite a difference as far as the environment, from Indiana to here."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:146", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.928014211660154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did your family come from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Indiana, but my dad followed construction jobs on the Bases, so we traveled all over the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is quite a difference as far as the environment, from Indiana to here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that an adjustment as far as working? As Rebecca mentioned before we talked, women had a dress code that they had to follow, and you were expected to dress certain ways. Of course sometimes this environment was a little harsh for that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:148", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.808904679622394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Indiana, but my dad followed construction jobs on the Bases, so we traveled all over the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is quite a difference as far as the environment, from Indiana to here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that an adjustment as far as working? As Rebecca mentioned before we talked, women had a dress code that they had to follow, and you were expected to dress certain ways. Of course sometimes this environment was a little harsh for that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just the normal way to dress, because even in high school here you did not wear pants. It was not the accepted thing. Every once in a while when we had snow days, we would have an exception and be allowed to. So it was just what I was used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wasn’t anything unusual about it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:150", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.787671866247104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that an adjustment as far as working? As Rebecca mentioned before we talked, women had a dress code that they had to follow, and you were expected to dress certain ways. Of course sometimes this environment was a little harsh for that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just the normal way to dress, because even in high school here you did not wear pants. It was not the accepted thing. Every once in a while when we had snow days, we would have an exception and be allowed to. So it was just what I was used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wasn’t anything unusual about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course there wasn’t any air conditioning at that time either."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:152", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.054419569611937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just the normal way to dress, because even in high school here you did not wear pants. It was not the accepted thing. Every once in a while when we had snow days, we would have an exception and be allowed to. So it was just what I was used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wasn’t anything unusual about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course there wasn’t any air conditioning at that time either."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there was at the NACA Center. It was quite comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn’t an uncomfortable work environment."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:154", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.393799521791042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course there wasn’t any air conditioning at that time either."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there was at the NACA Center. It was quite comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn’t an uncomfortable work environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was comfortable.\n\nAt the old base, we didn’t have air conditioning.\n\nThis was the new modern buildings, it was quite nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Better than being at home probably sometimes."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:156", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.881999468656712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there was at the NACA Center. It was quite comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn’t an uncomfortable work environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was comfortable.\n\nAt the old base, we didn’t have air conditioning.\n\nThis was the new modern buildings, it was quite nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Better than being at home probably sometimes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We didn’t have AC at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It changed over to NASA while you were still working too."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:158", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.535554965174125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was comfortable.\n\nAt the old base, we didn’t have air conditioning.\n\nThis was the new modern buildings, it was quite nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Better than being at home probably sometimes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We didn’t have AC at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It changed over to NASA while you were still working too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed for a little while with NASA. Did you notice any changes in the work that you did or the organization? I know you were in the same organization."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:162", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.37283885019347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We didn’t have AC at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It changed over to NASA while you were still working too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed for a little while with NASA. Did you notice any changes in the work that you did or the organization? I know you were in the same organization."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at that point in time, there really wasn’t much change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a lot that you did differently or anything that came through?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:164", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.303154277992746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed for a little while with NASA. Did you notice any changes in the work that you did or the organization? I know you were in the same organization."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at that point in time, there really wasn’t much change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a lot that you did differently or anything that came through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I keep saying the thing that I remember the most about the change is that shortly after the change we had all these stacks of NACA stationery that we had to just dispose of. It took a few weeks probably until they sent in the new NASA things. We had all these things, what do we do with these? That was one of the things that was a joke among all the secretarial type women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you moved up as a branch chief first? Then you moved on into more management?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:166", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.447949197769717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at that point in time, there really wasn’t much change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a lot that you did differently or anything that came through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I keep saying the thing that I remember the most about the change is that shortly after the change we had all these stacks of NACA stationery that we had to just dispose of. It took a few weeks probably until they sent in the new NASA things. We had all these things, what do we do with these? That was one of the things that was a joke among all the secretarial type women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you moved up as a branch chief first? Then you moved on into more management?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first leadership was being over the Calibration Lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anyone in particular that you had worked for that you modeled some of your management style after? Was there anyone that you admired that you tried to follow the same type of management techniques or anything as you went through?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:168", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.831054664188574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I keep saying the thing that I remember the most about the change is that shortly after the change we had all these stacks of NACA stationery that we had to just dispose of. It took a few weeks probably until they sent in the new NASA things. We had all these things, what do we do with these? That was one of the things that was a joke among all the secretarial type women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you moved up as a branch chief first? Then you moved on into more management?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first leadership was being over the Calibration Lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anyone in particular that you had worked for that you modeled some of your management style after? Was there anyone that you admired that you tried to follow the same type of management techniques or anything as you went through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you just develop your own style? How many people?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:178", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.834368564315833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Antelope Valley is a big aerospace place. There have been periods where almost all the jobs were in aerospace, and you could see the housing go up and down with budgets. In fact for a while her parents, when I was dating her, lived in a place, the housing area was all empty almost. Empty homes. People here, they’re big on aerospace. Of course there’s a lot of new people coming in. Yes, they like those kind of things. People come over here to Palmdale to watch planes take off from here. They get on Sierra Highway, they park and watch new airplanes take off or something, and go to the Base. The Space Shuttle landings on the [dry] lake [bed] were big deals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I was going to mention, because so much of that focus during Apollo was not here, because that’s not necessarily what people realized, that the work here was actually going towards reentry, but nobody was aware of that until the Shuttle. Then all of a sudden the Shuttle changed the public perception of what was going on here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once I got into the facility management group, my boss was put in charge of this thing about greeting all these people who were coming to—I guess it was the one with Reagan, it must have been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The July 4th [landing of STS-4]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. July 4th.\n\nPeople went to a visitor center in Lancaster at the Antelope Valley Inn, and people were picked up on buses. Me and another engineer, I don’t remember who was with me, we were in charge of one of the buses. We had to talk to the people on the bus about going out, and we were involved in helping the guys with security. Yes, it was a big impact. Of course technically we instrumented the [Shuttle] Carrier Aircraft [SCA, modified Boeing 747]. That was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and that was quite different, the whole idea of the Shuttle and the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:180", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.1527689496787845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once I got into the facility management group, my boss was put in charge of this thing about greeting all these people who were coming to—I guess it was the one with Reagan, it must have been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The July 4th [landing of STS-4]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. July 4th.\n\nPeople went to a visitor center in Lancaster at the Antelope Valley Inn, and people were picked up on buses. Me and another engineer, I don’t remember who was with me, we were in charge of one of the buses. We had to talk to the people on the bus about going out, and we were involved in helping the guys with security. Yes, it was a big impact. Of course technically we instrumented the [Shuttle] Carrier Aircraft [SCA, modified Boeing 747]. That was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and that was quite different, the whole idea of the Shuttle and the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had instruments on it, we had to put instruments on it. They were concerned about the structure that held the Space Shuttle, and they had strain gauges and all kinds of things. They wanted to know what it did to the fuselage. Even leading up to that first launch was an exciting thing. They didn’t know what was going to happen when they flew. They flew it a lot of times with it up there, but then there was one point where they had to separate it. Even though aerospace people get excited about all things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the Approach and Landing Tests [ALT] and the first release? Did you get to see it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.297622784506125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were very exciting times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine the whole community like you said, everybody being involved, and everyone was excited. Did they allow people, if you were family members? Or did they allow the general public to come on site to see those things? Or were there special areas set up so you could see the landings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had special viewing areas for the general public. The families and all went right to the NASA Center.\n\nYes, they let the families come here, but then up on the hill from Armstrong they had an area where people could come. Then they used to allow people to go in on the other side of the lake. They could drive around toward the rocket site and actually drive out on the lake where it landed and see it from the other side.\n\nWell, viewing areas out there, they were restricted.\n\nYes, it was always a big deal. The people used to come from all over the place. I remember some guy I went to college with calling me up one time, he was from Turlock. He was coming down to watch the Space Shuttle land over on the Kern County side over near Boron and North Edwards, over on the other side. Yes, they were big deals.\\n\\n Even in the aeronautical programs, people always liked to celebrate a significant thing on the flight. If something was done, then they’d decide they were going to stop at a place on the way home and celebrate.\n\nI think they had a party after every X-15 landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I was just going to ask you if those were significant, because they had a lot of flights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that was general public so much, but the people involved. They were exciting times too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the X-15, when that was ending, there was actually talk of closing the Center at that time, before the Shuttle started. There was that time period that things were a little uncertain, until they decided. I think they moved into the Supersonic Transport work, and that kept things going until the Shuttle. Do you remember that time period? Was there a lot of concern?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.898299733958178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that was general public so much, but the people involved. They were exciting times too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the X-15, when that was ending, there was actually talk of closing the Center at that time, before the Shuttle started. There was that time period that things were a little uncertain, until they decided. I think they moved into the Supersonic Transport work, and that kept things going until the Shuttle. Do you remember that time period? Was there a lot of concern?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think when they put us under Ames I think was one of those times they were wondering about closing the facility. The fellow that was our leader at that time was actually a [Lockheed] U-2 pilot. The spy aircraft. He was the Operations Chief at Ames, and they put him in charge of us [Martin A. Knutson]. They put us under them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that Manke, maybe? John Manke?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Manke is the pilot that was a Center Director, and he was a good friend of John McTigue. That’s when they did the reorganization. They just broke up each group to where somebody was in charge of engineers, somebody was in charge of technicians, and somebody was in charge of money and planning. I was in the Facility Management Office handling the money and the oversight of the facility, but the engineers assigned to us were in one group, and the technicians were in another group. I don’t know if they still have that out there that way now or not. It was quite different than the way it was before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point during those times where you weren’t sure about funding or what was going on, were there any times you ever considered not working for NASA, or maybe changing careers, to go somewhere else or do something else?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.775888593286865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think when they put us under Ames I think was one of those times they were wondering about closing the facility. The fellow that was our leader at that time was actually a [Lockheed] U-2 pilot. The spy aircraft. He was the Operations Chief at Ames, and they put him in charge of us [Martin A. Knutson]. They put us under them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that Manke, maybe? John Manke?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Manke is the pilot that was a Center Director, and he was a good friend of John McTigue. That’s when they did the reorganization. They just broke up each group to where somebody was in charge of engineers, somebody was in charge of technicians, and somebody was in charge of money and planning. I was in the Facility Management Office handling the money and the oversight of the facility, but the engineers assigned to us were in one group, and the technicians were in another group. I don’t know if they still have that out there that way now or not. It was quite different than the way it was before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point during those times where you weren’t sure about funding or what was going on, were there any times you ever considered not working for NASA, or maybe changing careers, to go somewhere else or do something else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I don’t think so. Actually I took an early out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what year did you leave?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.417653992540962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Manke is the pilot that was a Center Director, and he was a good friend of John McTigue. That’s when they did the reorganization. They just broke up each group to where somebody was in charge of engineers, somebody was in charge of technicians, and somebody was in charge of money and planning. I was in the Facility Management Office handling the money and the oversight of the facility, but the engineers assigned to us were in one group, and the technicians were in another group. I don’t know if they still have that out there that way now or not. It was quite different than the way it was before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point during those times where you weren’t sure about funding or what was going on, were there any times you ever considered not working for NASA, or maybe changing careers, to go somewhere else or do something else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I don’t think so. Actually I took an early out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what year did you leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1985. It was probably one of those times. They offered a lot of the managers early outs. I don’t know if it was during the Ames time or not. It might have been. Because to get you out early they make an offer to you, and you reject it, so they offered me a slot at Ames, and then if I rejected it, they would let you go out. A number of managers went out, and I did. I had 32 years. I think you had to have 25. I went out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go do anything else afterward?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.908504436156624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I don’t think so. Actually I took an early out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what year did you leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1985. It was probably one of those times. They offered a lot of the managers early outs. I don’t know if it was during the Ames time or not. It might have been. Because to get you out early they make an offer to you, and you reject it, so they offered me a slot at Ames, and then if I rejected it, they would let you go out. A number of managers went out, and I did. I had 32 years. I think you had to have 25. I went out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go do anything else afterward?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I went to the rocket site [Air Force Rocket Research Laboratory] on the other side of the lake and worked 15 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your second career."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.453893817951805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1985. It was probably one of those times. They offered a lot of the managers early outs. I don’t know if it was during the Ames time or not. It might have been. Because to get you out early they make an offer to you, and you reject it, so they offered me a slot at Ames, and then if I rejected it, they would let you go out. A number of managers went out, and I did. I had 32 years. I think you had to have 25. I went out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go do anything else afterward?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I went to the rocket site [Air Force Rocket Research Laboratory] on the other side of the lake and worked 15 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your second career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know why I did it. She didn’t want me to do it. She was a little bit upset about it. I don’t know, it might not have been—it worked out though. It worked out well for me, because I enjoyed my job at the rocket site. There I actually got to work on rockets. I got to work on more—calibration for NASA, I was working in an area that supported the project—up there is right on the rocket, so I enjoyed that. Worked up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get to fly on anything while you were here? Were you ever interested in that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.837659797724228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I went to the rocket site [Air Force Rocket Research Laboratory] on the other side of the lake and worked 15 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your second career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know why I did it. She didn’t want me to do it. She was a little bit upset about it. I don’t know, it might not have been—it worked out though. It worked out well for me, because I enjoyed my job at the rocket site. There I actually got to work on rockets. I got to work on more—calibration for NASA, I was working in an area that supported the project—up there is right on the rocket, so I enjoyed that. Worked up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get to fly on anything while you were here? Were you ever interested in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Actually people would go up with the pilots. I don’t know if they were supposed to do that or not. I could have got a ride I think, I don’t know. I’m not too hot about it. I know another guy in the Cal Lab got a ride. It’s wild. The pilot likes to turn you over if he can. Some people come back sick. So no.\\n\\n I’ve been up in airplanes a number of times. We flew to Ames quite a bit in that small airplane. A lot of the guys at Dryden, a lot of people had their own airplanes. There was a spell there where guys were building their own airplanes. The aeronautical people, they like to build their own airplane, and Don Hallberg had a plane of his own. He didn’t build his, but there were a lot of little airports around the valley, and the guys would have their own airplanes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I know gliders are a big thing out in this area because of the environment."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.152955330804698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know why I did it. She didn’t want me to do it. She was a little bit upset about it. I don’t know, it might not have been—it worked out though. It worked out well for me, because I enjoyed my job at the rocket site. There I actually got to work on rockets. I got to work on more—calibration for NASA, I was working in an area that supported the project—up there is right on the rocket, so I enjoyed that. Worked up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get to fly on anything while you were here? Were you ever interested in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Actually people would go up with the pilots. I don’t know if they were supposed to do that or not. I could have got a ride I think, I don’t know. I’m not too hot about it. I know another guy in the Cal Lab got a ride. It’s wild. The pilot likes to turn you over if he can. Some people come back sick. So no.\\n\\n I’ve been up in airplanes a number of times. We flew to Ames quite a bit in that small airplane. A lot of the guys at Dryden, a lot of people had their own airplanes. There was a spell there where guys were building their own airplanes. The aeronautical people, they like to build their own airplane, and Don Hallberg had a plane of his own. He didn’t build his, but there were a lot of little airports around the valley, and the guys would have their own airplanes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I know gliders are a big thing out in this area because of the environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, yes. Gliders. A lot of guys worked with Paul Bikle. In fact we calibrated some of his stuff. He had an altimeter to measure his flights, altitude. He was trying to break altitude records. They would bring it in the Cal Lab and have one of our guys calibrate it periodically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been interesting. I know that the personalities of pilots and people that are interested in that are—it’s pretty interesting working with those types of people, I would imagine."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:236", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.335262499474333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right. They wanted to know if that contributed to it. I think they knew some of the things that had happened, but they wondered why they happened. It could be the guy read a meter wrong, but it could be that the meter was doing wrong things too. Well, they had some trouble with the attitude of the vehicle when it came back in. It was in space, so when it came in it had all that stuff that the Space Shuttle gets, and it got some violent effects on it and heat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you take what you had learned and what you had done at NACA and NASA and apply it to your last job on the rocket site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did basically the same thing. They hired me as a quality control guy, not as a technician. I wasn’t even an instrument engineer. They wanted a quality guy. It was after the Shuttle when the rocket blew up.\n\nThe Shuttle explosion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Challenger [STS-51L]? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess the same thing might have happened to the Air Force. They were trying to recover those Titan rockets. They decided to fire one at the rocket site, a full-size rocket, vertical. It was right after I retired. I think I had been retired about a year or part of a year. I went over and got interviewed, and they hired me right away. They wanted me to do quality. They wanted me to check instrumentation. They had technicians and guys who were putting everything on—it was just like what we did at NASA and NACA. They had technicians and engineers that were putting them on, but they wanted everything checked. I oversaw the quality control of it.\n\nHe sat on top of a fully loaded rocket one day. Checking it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know he was going to do that, or did you find out afterwards?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:238", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.92806944386037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did basically the same thing. They hired me as a quality control guy, not as a technician. I wasn’t even an instrument engineer. They wanted a quality guy. It was after the Shuttle when the rocket blew up.\n\nThe Shuttle explosion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Challenger [STS-51L]? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess the same thing might have happened to the Air Force. They were trying to recover those Titan rockets. They decided to fire one at the rocket site, a full-size rocket, vertical. It was right after I retired. I think I had been retired about a year or part of a year. I went over and got interviewed, and they hired me right away. They wanted me to do quality. They wanted me to check instrumentation. They had technicians and guys who were putting everything on—it was just like what we did at NASA and NACA. They had technicians and engineers that were putting them on, but they wanted everything checked. I oversaw the quality control of it.\n\nHe sat on top of a fully loaded rocket one day. Checking it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know he was going to do that, or did you find out afterwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t know until later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a little scary."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:244", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.153730375665801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t know until later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a little scary."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually when you work with those guys around rockets, it’s surprising but it’s not—well, what happened is it leaked between the segments. They have segments, each segment is 10 feet but they got to hook together about four or five of them. And when they put them together, they have to put an O-ring in there. You know what an O-ring is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s what caused the accident, the O-ring leaked. They were trying to improve that. But the way they put those things together, they lay one segment on top of another, and they pound these big pegs in all the way around that thing, bam bam. You look at the segment, it’s all full of solid rocket fuel, and they’re pounding these things in. You’d think they’d be worried about sparks or something. I guess it’s a lot harder to light on fire than people think it is.\\n\\n Just before the firing, they have a crew that handles the rocket when it’s ready to fire, until they fire. They wanted to go up on the upper dome and check the pressure transducer that measures the pressure inside the rocket. That was part of their procedure just before firing, so I would go up with a technician all the way up to the fifth floor, and then crawl up on top of the rocket and hook up to measure the pressure.\n\nAnd it was already armed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had a good view.\n\nI don’t think I’d look down though."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3122000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Then they brought one over to Dryden. They wanted to show it to the news people. Interestingly enough, that was probably the first time a lot of the NASA people had seen it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I imagine the level of secrecy in things that were going on, because everything was so isolated out here, it was a good place for that type of work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When they brought that U-2 in, they wanted the public to think that this was a normal thing. We were told not to go out back and watch it or anything. We were told if we went out there we’d be shot, was the rumor going around, but we still all poked our heads out and watched, and never saw anything fly quite like that. We were all really very interested in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine you did get to see a lot of very interesting things fly that most people would never even imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. Yes. Then back to the early times and the sonic booms, other than the engineering people that were here the valley was mostly farming. Our population was very small compared to what it is now. Everyone knew. They didn’t know what the projects were, but they knew what all the sonic booms were.\n\nNow there would be a lot of people in Antelope Valley that really wouldn’t have any idea what’s going on at Edwards, I don’t think. Big influx of new people, younger people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you and your friends were doing the basketball league and the bowling and hiking, did you all talk about work? Or were you not allowed to talk much about work off the Base?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4580000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When they brought that U-2 in, they wanted the public to think that this was a normal thing. We were told not to go out back and watch it or anything. We were told if we went out there we’d be shot, was the rumor going around, but we still all poked our heads out and watched, and never saw anything fly quite like that. We were all really very interested in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine you did get to see a lot of very interesting things fly that most people would never even imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. Yes. Then back to the early times and the sonic booms, other than the engineering people that were here the valley was mostly farming. Our population was very small compared to what it is now. Everyone knew. They didn’t know what the projects were, but they knew what all the sonic booms were.\n\nNow there would be a lot of people in Antelope Valley that really wouldn’t have any idea what’s going on at Edwards, I don’t think. Big influx of new people, younger people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you and your friends were doing the basketball league and the bowling and hiking, did you all talk about work? Or were you not allowed to talk much about work off the Base?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, we talked about work. You just had to be particularly—I think the secret stuff came more with the X-15. I think it was the X-15 that a lot of people just didn’t want to talk about what they were testing for. People on their outings, I don’t think they talked much about work. A lot of these people ended up being married to each other. I remember people we went around with who were single, and two of them would marry from the group, that’s how they met."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would imagine that your relationship, you weren’t unusual. I imagine there were other couples that met on site, and that was maybe the only place to meet people."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. Yes. Then back to the early times and the sonic booms, other than the engineering people that were here the valley was mostly farming. Our population was very small compared to what it is now. Everyone knew. They didn’t know what the projects were, but they knew what all the sonic booms were.\n\nNow there would be a lot of people in Antelope Valley that really wouldn’t have any idea what’s going on at Edwards, I don’t think. Big influx of new people, younger people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you and your friends were doing the basketball league and the bowling and hiking, did you all talk about work? Or were you not allowed to talk much about work off the Base?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, we talked about work. You just had to be particularly—I think the secret stuff came more with the X-15. I think it was the X-15 that a lot of people just didn’t want to talk about what they were testing for. People on their outings, I don’t think they talked much about work. A lot of these people ended up being married to each other. I remember people we went around with who were single, and two of them would marry from the group, that’s how they met."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would imagine that your relationship, you weren’t unusual. I imagine there were other couples that met on site, and that was maybe the only place to meet people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was one of the places, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the size of the communities weren’t that big.\n\nYou didn’t want to go back to work after you had your children?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00962:268", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was one of the places, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the size of the communities weren’t that big.\n\nYou didn’t want to go back to work after you had your children?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’ve never gone back. I’ve been a stay-at-home mom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Full-time job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that is.\n\nI always enjoyed my work. You hear people complain about what they do, and they can’t stand to go to work. I’m sure there were times I didn’t really want to go to work, but I liked what I did. I liked the people I worked with. Even at the rocket site, I enjoyed it. I didn’t stop until I was 70. I worked up there. They had limitations on what you could earn back then. If you were getting a civil service retirement, a government retirement, you could only earn so much. There were periods I couldn’t work full-time. Even then I cut my hours back when they had that law in effect. Yes, I worked till I was 70, I think. Finally, they were starting to cut people. I said, “Well, don’t start cutting me, just tell me not to come in sometime.” Then one January, the supervisor told me, “Harry, don’t come in anymore.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t talked about, or any other anecdotes that you can remember?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00619:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Again, it’s very rare for us to see something that you’re working on come to fruition. So that’s fun. You should see it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hope to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bring family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’d like to do that. Well, I don’t want to keep you too much longer. Do you have any questions? Is there anything else you can think of that we might not have touched on, some other significant contribution or challenge that you might have had to deal with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think, overall, it was a very positive event. I think the funny part was often when my colleagues, especially from offices I’ve worked at before, they were like, “Ah, Chile desk. You’re going to go take it easy for a while.” Then they’d see me walking out of the Department at 11 p.m. “What are you doing?” In this case we were doing something that I think was unique and very positive, so I’m glad to have been a part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you, and thanks for being a part of our project."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00927:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.107470000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not. My responsibility is to work on this German night fighter. We still have a wing to complete. The airframe fuselage is out in the museum right here now, but the wing has to be done and a lot of other details. Between escort duties and whatnot, I’m working on that. We’re told that with everything else that’s going on, we’re going to be moving our shop from Maryland out here. I don’t know how that’s going to work out with the Discovery–Enterprise exchange, that’s yet to be determined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been rewarding to receive that from your peers, that’s wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, yes. I think Valerie Neal, former NASA and our curator, was probably instrumental in getting that for us. It was pretty neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rebecca, did you have any questions for Ed?\n\nJust one, and I think you might have already answered it. Did you ever come back and do anything else with Enterprise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have once or twice, but it was generally just escort duty. Those were times where it was just sit around and wait for whatever the folks, predominately USA, needed. I did come back, and we did reinstall the OMS pods. That was pretty much the original team again that did that, and we brought a couple of other people in to assist because you need spotters and tag line holders."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you would escort for whatever they needed. What were the types of things that they would be coming back for?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00927:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.0083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, yes. I think Valerie Neal, former NASA and our curator, was probably instrumental in getting that for us. It was pretty neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rebecca, did you have any questions for Ed?\n\nJust one, and I think you might have already answered it. Did you ever come back and do anything else with Enterprise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have once or twice, but it was generally just escort duty. Those were times where it was just sit around and wait for whatever the folks, predominately USA, needed. I did come back, and we did reinstall the OMS pods. That was pretty much the original team again that did that, and we brought a couple of other people in to assist because you need spotters and tag line holders."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you would escort for whatever they needed. What were the types of things that they would be coming back for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every time USA came here, they had a lot of supplies. Rather than transport them back, they would leave them out and we would store them in our barn, which is out in the back corner of the property. So the first thing we’d have to do is get their supplies, and that ran anywhere from tape to paints to epoxy glues.\\n\\n Recently, within the past year, they came back and we took them up on a JLG man lift. They did the work, and I would just maneuver it around to a position that helped them. Like I said, “escort” sounds very static, and sometimes it is, but a lot of times there’s a dynamic component, which is the most fun of all. That’s how you get to know these guys and get to see what they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they doing types of restoration themselves?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 24, "return_to_go": 35.13299960918894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I came to work there, I worked for the old Landing and Recovery Division, which was a part of the Flight Operations Directorate. Part of our job then was, of course, recovering the spacecraft, but another part of the job was we had a recovery operations control room in the Mission Control Center, and that’s where we managed the recovery forces, out of that room. Occasionally, I was assigned to that particular room. So yes, I’ve been associated with the control center since day one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. Okay, so you’ve got a lot of good information for us about the facility itself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’ve got a lot of information, (laughter) but I don’t know if I have much time to tell you, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do have a couple documents that you might want to get a hold of. I’ll tell you about those when we get to that question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be great. Anything that you have to share with us would be fantastic. Why don’t you give us a short history about the Mission Control Center, telling us when it was constructed, what its purpose was, and how the building has changed since you came on board in 1967 until you left in 2007."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.596707223272283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, all the equipment was replaced to support the Shuttle Program. Let me see. I wrote a note down here. Let me find out where it is. It was supporting the ALT Program at the time, and the equipment used to support the ALT Program was equipment that we already had. It was just reprogrammed for that particular set of ALT flights. In parallel with that, our development contractor was doing development for the actual Shuttle flights, beginning with the OFT, Orbital Flight Test Program [STS-1 through STS-4], and then subsequently, what they called at the time the ops part of the Shuttle Program. So that’s kind of how we got to there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us what type of equipment you were using for the ALT Program? You mentioned it was stuff that you had. Was that from the Apollo Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. I don’t recall exactly what it was. Let’s see. Like I said, it was equipment that we already had. I’m trying to look into this information that I have here to see if it says exactly what it was. I don’t recall exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the building changed to support the Space Shuttle Program? You mentioned that equipment was changed out. Were there any major changes done to the building?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you talking about the physical building or the systems within the building?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess, both."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.218563581413648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. I don’t recall exactly what it was. Let’s see. Like I said, it was equipment that we already had. I’m trying to look into this information that I have here to see if it says exactly what it was. I don’t recall exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the building changed to support the Space Shuttle Program? You mentioned that equipment was changed out. Were there any major changes done to the building?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you talking about the physical building or the systems within the building?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess, both."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both. I do not recall any major physical changes to the building; it’s just that we brought in new equipment that was built and/or just bought specifically for the Shuttle Program. But it was basically all new stuff, and like I said, it was brought in the building, installed, programmed, and tested in support of the STS-1 flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This equipment, would it primarily consist of computers, or are there other pieces of equipment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.020626201570717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you talking about the physical building or the systems within the building?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess, both."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both. I do not recall any major physical changes to the building; it’s just that we brought in new equipment that was built and/or just bought specifically for the Shuttle Program. But it was basically all new stuff, and like I said, it was brought in the building, installed, programmed, and tested in support of the STS-1 flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This equipment, would it primarily consist of computers, or are there other pieces of equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s computers and computer-related equipment. Some of it was hardware—you would term it hardware, versus a computer—but the whole system, from the front end of the building until the displays on the consoles, it was basically all new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall when JSC began transitioning the Mission Control Center from the Apollo Program into the Space Shuttle Program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.800695779523018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both. I do not recall any major physical changes to the building; it’s just that we brought in new equipment that was built and/or just bought specifically for the Shuttle Program. But it was basically all new stuff, and like I said, it was brought in the building, installed, programmed, and tested in support of the STS-1 flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This equipment, would it primarily consist of computers, or are there other pieces of equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s computers and computer-related equipment. Some of it was hardware—you would term it hardware, versus a computer—but the whole system, from the front end of the building until the displays on the consoles, it was basically all new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall when JSC began transitioning the Mission Control Center from the Apollo Program into the Space Shuttle Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, let’s see. In July of 1976, there was a contract awarded for the design, development, implementation, test, and maintenance operations, so I would say that’s when it started, at the initiation of that contract. That was July of ’76."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was that awarded to, do you recall?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.44521753280335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s computers and computer-related equipment. Some of it was hardware—you would term it hardware, versus a computer—but the whole system, from the front end of the building until the displays on the consoles, it was basically all new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall when JSC began transitioning the Mission Control Center from the Apollo Program into the Space Shuttle Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, let’s see. In July of 1976, there was a contract awarded for the design, development, implementation, test, and maintenance operations, so I would say that’s when it started, at the initiation of that contract. That was July of ’76."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was that awarded to, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me see. It was a byproduct of old Philco-Ford. Philco-Ford, of course, built the original stuff in the control center, and they were actually called Aeronutronic Ford [Corporation] at that point in time. The contract number was NAS 9-15014."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the Landing and Recovery Division sort of—I’m not sure what happened to it exactly."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 18.272463925337057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, let’s see. In July of 1976, there was a contract awarded for the design, development, implementation, test, and maintenance operations, so I would say that’s when it started, at the initiation of that contract. That was July of ’76."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was that awarded to, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me see. It was a byproduct of old Philco-Ford. Philco-Ford, of course, built the original stuff in the control center, and they were actually called Aeronutronic Ford [Corporation] at that point in time. The contract number was NAS 9-15014."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the Landing and Recovery Division sort of—I’m not sure what happened to it exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was abolished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you move from there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.524959917041173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me see. It was a byproduct of old Philco-Ford. Philco-Ford, of course, built the original stuff in the control center, and they were actually called Aeronutronic Ford [Corporation] at that point in time. The contract number was NAS 9-15014."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the Landing and Recovery Division sort of—I’m not sure what happened to it exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was abolished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you move from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the Landing Recovery Division until it was abolished, which was right around late ’71 or early ’72. So at that point in time, all the people that were in that division were kind of fanned out to other jobs. I happened to go into the division that basically was responsible for the control center, for development of maintenance and operations of the control center. That’s kind of where I got into the meat of actually working with MCC systems that were supporting the flights at the time. That would be Apollo. The Apollo fire was in January of ’67, and I came to work there in June of ’67. Then I supported the Apollo flights as a part of the Landing Recovery Division until it was abolished, which again, that’s late ’71 or early ’72, somewhere in that timeframe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk to us a little bit about the development of the control center for the Shuttle Program and that entire transition from Apollo into Shuttle?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.916622130045747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was abolished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you move from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the Landing Recovery Division until it was abolished, which was right around late ’71 or early ’72. So at that point in time, all the people that were in that division were kind of fanned out to other jobs. I happened to go into the division that basically was responsible for the control center, for development of maintenance and operations of the control center. That’s kind of where I got into the meat of actually working with MCC systems that were supporting the flights at the time. That would be Apollo. The Apollo fire was in January of ’67, and I came to work there in June of ’67. Then I supported the Apollo flights as a part of the Landing Recovery Division until it was abolished, which again, that’s late ’71 or early ’72, somewhere in that timeframe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk to us a little bit about the development of the control center for the Shuttle Program and that entire transition from Apollo into Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, like I said, I don’t know that I can tell you any detail. There’s a whole bunch of that detail in these documents that I have, but it’s not in my head. (laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. That was a long time ago."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.462913477828607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the Landing Recovery Division until it was abolished, which was right around late ’71 or early ’72. So at that point in time, all the people that were in that division were kind of fanned out to other jobs. I happened to go into the division that basically was responsible for the control center, for development of maintenance and operations of the control center. That’s kind of where I got into the meat of actually working with MCC systems that were supporting the flights at the time. That would be Apollo. The Apollo fire was in January of ’67, and I came to work there in June of ’67. Then I supported the Apollo flights as a part of the Landing Recovery Division until it was abolished, which again, that’s late ’71 or early ’72, somewhere in that timeframe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk to us a little bit about the development of the control center for the Shuttle Program and that entire transition from Apollo into Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, like I said, I don’t know that I can tell you any detail. There’s a whole bunch of that detail in these documents that I have, but it’s not in my head. (laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. That was a long time ago."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I said, it kicked off with that contract, and they went and did the design, a detailed design, and then acquired the systems, the computers and hardware, and then programmed them to the design specs [specifications] that they needed to support the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any complications with that transition as you moved from one major program to another?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.18101497536512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, like I said, I don’t know that I can tell you any detail. There’s a whole bunch of that detail in these documents that I have, but it’s not in my head. (laughter)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. That was a long time ago."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I said, it kicked off with that contract, and they went and did the design, a detailed design, and then acquired the systems, the computers and hardware, and then programmed them to the design specs [specifications] that they needed to support the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any complications with that transition as you moved from one major program to another?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said no when I read that question. I said nothing out of the ordinary. There’s always some minor complications you run into, but I don’t recall anything major, any glitches at all that caused any delays in the program milestones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you could describe the layout of the Mission Control Center, especially as it existed during the Apollo Program and then, in contrast, for the Shuttle Program."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.09001663929458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I said, it kicked off with that contract, and they went and did the design, a detailed design, and then acquired the systems, the computers and hardware, and then programmed them to the design specs [specifications] that they needed to support the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any complications with that transition as you moved from one major program to another?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said no when I read that question. I said nothing out of the ordinary. There’s always some minor complications you run into, but I don’t recall anything major, any glitches at all that caused any delays in the program milestones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you could describe the layout of the Mission Control Center, especially as it existed during the Apollo Program and then, in contrast, for the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There really wasn’t a whole lot of difference. That’s pretty good loaded question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is? Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.877796265882864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said no when I read that question. I said nothing out of the ordinary. There’s always some minor complications you run into, but I don’t recall anything major, any glitches at all that caused any delays in the program milestones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you could describe the layout of the Mission Control Center, especially as it existed during the Apollo Program and then, in contrast, for the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There really wasn’t a whole lot of difference. That’s pretty good loaded question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The layout was basically the same. We did have to bring in new systems to support the Shuttle, and then eventually got rid of all the Apollo support equipment. About the only thing that comes to mind major was down on the first floor in the control center, we had an area down there called the RTCC, Real-Time Computing Complex. That was where most of all the computing equipment was. That’s what that was called, the computing complex. A lot of controllers that set up the equipment and managed it were down in that area. That went away, and a lot of the controllers that were down in there actually went to a room up on the third floor in the control center and supported from there. So to me, that’s probably the major difference between the two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t relying on huge mainframe computers for the Shuttle Program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.753106962092073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There really wasn’t a whole lot of difference. That’s pretty good loaded question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The layout was basically the same. We did have to bring in new systems to support the Shuttle, and then eventually got rid of all the Apollo support equipment. About the only thing that comes to mind major was down on the first floor in the control center, we had an area down there called the RTCC, Real-Time Computing Complex. That was where most of all the computing equipment was. That’s what that was called, the computing complex. A lot of controllers that set up the equipment and managed it were down in that area. That went away, and a lot of the controllers that were down in there actually went to a room up on the third floor in the control center and supported from there. So to me, that’s probably the major difference between the two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t relying on huge mainframe computers for the Shuttle Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, we did. We had mainframes in there until—I’ve got a piece of paper on that. Let me see. Yes, 2002. [In] 2002, we decommissioned the last mainframe computer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That’s amazing."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.725674402324525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The layout was basically the same. We did have to bring in new systems to support the Shuttle, and then eventually got rid of all the Apollo support equipment. About the only thing that comes to mind major was down on the first floor in the control center, we had an area down there called the RTCC, Real-Time Computing Complex. That was where most of all the computing equipment was. That’s what that was called, the computing complex. A lot of controllers that set up the equipment and managed it were down in that area. That went away, and a lot of the controllers that were down in there actually went to a room up on the third floor in the control center and supported from there. So to me, that’s probably the major difference between the two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren’t relying on huge mainframe computers for the Shuttle Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, we did. We had mainframes in there until—I’ve got a piece of paper on that. Let me see. Yes, 2002. [In] 2002, we decommissioned the last mainframe computer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it hasn’t been that long ago, actually, that we did that. But they were there. Of course, it wasn’t the same ones. Computers have a life [cycle], and you usually try to replace them every—depends on which it is—every four or five years. We replaced the mainframes as the old ones became outdated, and the new ones were what was new technology at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you can, tell me a little bit about the ALT Program. You were working in the control center at that point. Were there any changes that had to be made to accommodate a flight in California versus a spaceflight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.695193780360583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, we did. We had mainframes in there until—I’ve got a piece of paper on that. Let me see. Yes, 2002. [In] 2002, we decommissioned the last mainframe computer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it hasn’t been that long ago, actually, that we did that. But they were there. Of course, it wasn’t the same ones. Computers have a life [cycle], and you usually try to replace them every—depends on which it is—every four or five years. We replaced the mainframes as the old ones became outdated, and the new ones were what was new technology at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you can, tell me a little bit about the ALT Program. You were working in the control center at that point. Were there any changes that had to be made to accommodate a flight in California versus a spaceflight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We used some of the existing equipment in the control center to support the ALT Program. Of course, the ALT Program was a very short program, and it didn’t require anything really sophisticated because it was just being dropped off the top of a 747, and we were basically just monitoring what it was doing. So it wasn’t a major program change, like it was going from Apollo to Shuttle. The ALT was fairly simple to support. Actually, I myself didn’t actually support the ALT. I had people in the office that did, but I didn’t. I was working on getting prepared for the Shuttle Program. I was doing what we call planning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me more about that, about planning for those first few flights?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 26.802983590510564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, getting ready for each one of the flights was the same process, like [I] said, planning and then training. Of course, there’s a lot of testing that goes on, too. It’s not just training; you test all the systems that have been reconfigured for that particular flight, and you test all that, and then you have to go use it in training. Then you fly. I don’t know if that answers your question or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sort of actually leads into another question, and then I’ll come back to the other question. For each mission, the control center is reconfigured, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To some extent, yes. It’s not necessarily major stuff. I don’t know that there was that much reconfiguration that went on for the first four, the development flights, but sometimes the Shuttle’s onboard software programs get updated, and that may require that the ground software be updated to accommodate that. So there’s that kind of reconfigurations that go on, flight to flight. They still go on today, too, or at least they had been going on. I can’t tell you what’s happening right now. But that kind of thing is not unusual, from flight to flight, to do some kind of reconfigurations. Even the flight controllers that monitor the onboard Shuttle systems, if a Shuttle system changes, then they’ll probably have to go in and change their monitoring tools, which are displays and little digital driver devices. They have to go in and modify those to support the changes that have been made to the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long does that process take?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s hard to say. Depending on the extent of the change, it could be anywhere from a month or 2 months up to maybe 10 months, 12 months. So it would depend upon the extent of the change. It’s kind of hard to answer that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long would it take your facility to get ready for a new mission coming up?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.555348551308951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, STS-1, obviously. I believe it was STS-3 that had to land at White Sands. [Northrop Strip, now] White Sands, [Space Harbor], New Mexico. That one put a scare into me, because when they landed, they had the nose coming down, and they were on the runway, and all the sudden, the nose went whoop, back up. It was kind of a scary thing, but nothing happened. Of course, [the Space Shuttle] Challenger [accident], [the Space Shuttle] Columbia [accident], and then the STS-26 flight, which was the return to flight, first flight after the Challenger accident. Let’s see, I think STS-9 was the first Spacelab mission. Then we had a TDRS, a Tracking and Data Relay Satellite, that was the first one we put up. I think it was STS-4. I’m not certain of that. But anyway, those are kind of the ones that come to mind. A few of the firsts, and, of course, the accidents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us how the Challenger accident impacted operations or the facility at JSC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, it impacted the people. I don’t know that it impacted anything else because there was nothing we could do about it. We did some testing following it to try to help figure out what went wrong, but other than that, really the impact on operations was that there wasn’t any for a couple of years, because the Shuttle was grounded, and we had to get it fixed before we could fly again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any modifications made to the building at that point, or equipment, while we were down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Result of that? No, I don’t recall anything that was done directly as a result of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the Columbia accident, were there any modifications or changes made to the control center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.617053945898833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, it impacted the people. I don’t know that it impacted anything else because there was nothing we could do about it. We did some testing following it to try to help figure out what went wrong, but other than that, really the impact on operations was that there wasn’t any for a couple of years, because the Shuttle was grounded, and we had to get it fixed before we could fly again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any modifications made to the building at that point, or equipment, while we were down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Result of that? No, I don’t recall anything that was done directly as a result of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the Columbia accident, were there any modifications or changes made to the control center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’m sure there were. After that, they went in and made all these modifications to the Shuttle to be able to do the on-orbit inspection of the tiles. So I’m sure that we made changes on the ground that coincided with the on-board changes they made. But there weren’t any changes made that were really directly as a result of the accident. Like I said, there were on-board changes to the Shuttle made that drove changes to the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the different Shuttles came—when Challenger came on board, Discovery, Atlantis, and Endeavour—were there any changes that had to be made to the control center, or are they pretty much the same animal?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.796726606554259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Result of that? No, I don’t recall anything that was done directly as a result of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the Columbia accident, were there any modifications or changes made to the control center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’m sure there were. After that, they went in and made all these modifications to the Shuttle to be able to do the on-orbit inspection of the tiles. So I’m sure that we made changes on the ground that coincided with the on-board changes they made. But there weren’t any changes made that were really directly as a result of the accident. Like I said, there were on-board changes to the Shuttle made that drove changes to the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the different Shuttles came—when Challenger came on board, Discovery, Atlantis, and Endeavour—were there any changes that had to be made to the control center, or are they pretty much the same animal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact did working with DoD [Department of Defense] have upon the Mission Control Center and the facility?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.996362896171398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’m sure there were. After that, they went in and made all these modifications to the Shuttle to be able to do the on-orbit inspection of the tiles. So I’m sure that we made changes on the ground that coincided with the on-board changes they made. But there weren’t any changes made that were really directly as a result of the accident. Like I said, there were on-board changes to the Shuttle made that drove changes to the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the different Shuttles came—when Challenger came on board, Discovery, Atlantis, and Endeavour—were there any changes that had to be made to the control center, or are they pretty much the same animal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact did working with DoD [Department of Defense] have upon the Mission Control Center and the facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which question is that on this paper? Oh, I see. How did DoD-classified flights impact the facility? What measures were taken to protect classified information?\\n\\n Well, of course, it did impact the facility, because we had to make modifications to protect data security. The third floor of the control center was used for the support of the DoD flights, and we had to keep all the information that was classified separate from the regular unclassified STS [Space Transportation System] information. So, for instance, we had cable runs under the floor; the ones that supported the classified flights were separate from the ones that supported the non-classified flights. That was pretty much across the board, everything, even the voice loops on the key sets, the ones that could have classified information on them were separate from the ones that didn’t. So yes, there was a lot of impact to prepare the facility for the DoD flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know when that process began, as you began to revitalize the Mission Control Center in support of DoD missions?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.329292106857109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact did working with DoD [Department of Defense] have upon the Mission Control Center and the facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which question is that on this paper? Oh, I see. How did DoD-classified flights impact the facility? What measures were taken to protect classified information?\\n\\n Well, of course, it did impact the facility, because we had to make modifications to protect data security. The third floor of the control center was used for the support of the DoD flights, and we had to keep all the information that was classified separate from the regular unclassified STS [Space Transportation System] information. So, for instance, we had cable runs under the floor; the ones that supported the classified flights were separate from the ones that supported the non-classified flights. That was pretty much across the board, everything, even the voice loops on the key sets, the ones that could have classified information on them were separate from the ones that didn’t. So yes, there was a lot of impact to prepare the facility for the DoD flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know when that process began, as you began to revitalize the Mission Control Center in support of DoD missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. I don’t recall that, no. I’m sure it’s in one of these documents that I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are those wires and all of the other changes that you made to the facility, are they still located in the facility, or have they been taken out since?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.810324563174564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which question is that on this paper? Oh, I see. How did DoD-classified flights impact the facility? What measures were taken to protect classified information?\\n\\n Well, of course, it did impact the facility, because we had to make modifications to protect data security. The third floor of the control center was used for the support of the DoD flights, and we had to keep all the information that was classified separate from the regular unclassified STS [Space Transportation System] information. So, for instance, we had cable runs under the floor; the ones that supported the classified flights were separate from the ones that supported the non-classified flights. That was pretty much across the board, everything, even the voice loops on the key sets, the ones that could have classified information on them were separate from the ones that didn’t. So yes, there was a lot of impact to prepare the facility for the DoD flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know when that process began, as you began to revitalize the Mission Control Center in support of DoD missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. I don’t recall that, no. I’m sure it’s in one of these documents that I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are those wires and all of the other changes that you made to the facility, are they still located in the facility, or have they been taken out since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, what we did do also is the third-floor control room was deemed a National Historical Monument. Basically, all that equipment that was stored in it was declassified. Actually, it was about the same time as we were putting in new equipment, so it was all decommissioned basically in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall any of the DoD missions that stand out in your mind, or were they just one of many?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.45591618130507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. I don’t recall that, no. I’m sure it’s in one of these documents that I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are those wires and all of the other changes that you made to the facility, are they still located in the facility, or have they been taken out since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, what we did do also is the third-floor control room was deemed a National Historical Monument. Basically, all that equipment that was stored in it was declassified. Actually, it was about the same time as we were putting in new equipment, so it was all decommissioned basically in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall any of the DoD missions that stand out in your mind, or were they just one of many?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "(laughs) No, there’s none that stand out in my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m curious. As the program matured, we started out with the four flight tests, and then we became operational, and over the years, the flights became much more complex, especially now that we have Space Station. Did that change the operations at all within the facility?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.173240201450078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, what we did do also is the third-floor control room was deemed a National Historical Monument. Basically, all that equipment that was stored in it was declassified. Actually, it was about the same time as we were putting in new equipment, so it was all decommissioned basically in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall any of the DoD missions that stand out in your mind, or were they just one of many?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "(laughs) No, there’s none that stand out in my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m curious. As the program matured, we started out with the four flight tests, and then we became operational, and over the years, the flights became much more complex, especially now that we have Space Station. Did that change the operations at all within the facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. The basic operation of how you manage a flight is the same. Matter of fact, it’s basically the same as it’s been since day one, you know. The flight director and the team and all the support personnel—it’s basically all the same now. The only really difference is the interaction between the Station team and the Shuttle team. That’s a little different. But again, the way they do it, and the way they manage it is basically the same since it’s been since day one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people would typically work in the control center when a mission was up? Is that about the same number as the sim?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.081378001611196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "(laughs) No, there’s none that stand out in my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m curious. As the program matured, we started out with the four flight tests, and then we became operational, and over the years, the flights became much more complex, especially now that we have Space Station. Did that change the operations at all within the facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. The basic operation of how you manage a flight is the same. Matter of fact, it’s basically the same as it’s been since day one, you know. The flight director and the team and all the support personnel—it’s basically all the same now. The only really difference is the interaction between the Station team and the Shuttle team. That’s a little different. But again, the way they do it, and the way they manage it is basically the same since it’s been since day one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people would typically work in the control center when a mission was up? Is that about the same number as the sim?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the number I gave you, 300."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, it’s 300."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.20153111290133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. The basic operation of how you manage a flight is the same. Matter of fact, it’s basically the same as it’s been since day one, you know. The flight director and the team and all the support personnel—it’s basically all the same now. The only really difference is the interaction between the Station team and the Shuttle team. That’s a little different. But again, the way they do it, and the way they manage it is basically the same since it’s been since day one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people would typically work in the control center when a mission was up? Is that about the same number as the sim?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the number I gave you, 300."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, it’s 300."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back to that question. I told you about how many per shift, and that was basically for a flight. Now, there could be some tests were being run or stuff like that, there might be only a handful of people in there running the test. Then, of course, we have the team that’s in there 24/7 that operates the control center: the system, the computers, and all that. They’re in there all the time. That depends. It probably averages 30, 40 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe some of the unique equipment in your building that you used to support the Shuttle Program? Was there anything in particular that stands out?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 23.557256792112586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the number I gave you, 300."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, it’s 300."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back to that question. I told you about how many per shift, and that was basically for a flight. Now, there could be some tests were being run or stuff like that, there might be only a handful of people in there running the test. Then, of course, we have the team that’s in there 24/7 that operates the control center: the system, the computers, and all that. They’re in there all the time. That depends. It probably averages 30, 40 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe some of the unique equipment in your building that you used to support the Shuttle Program? Was there anything in particular that stands out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where’s that question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right above the DoD question."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.218835545818006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where’s that question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right above the DoD question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. I found it. Not really. Most of the equipment in the building now is COTS, Commercial Off-The-Shelf. Now, back in the Apollo days, there were some pieces of equipment that were designed and built specifically because there wasn’t anything out there off the shelf that would really support the requirements or the needs. Two pieces of equipment to come to mind regarding that are DVIS—Digital Voice Intercom System. It was a system that was designed and built by Ford—oh, golly—back in the early nineties. It’s still there; it’s still operating. Or else was when I left. I don’t know if it still is or not.\\n\\n The other piece of equipment that was designed and built specifically for the control center was the projection plotter. That’s the big screen, the 10 by 20-foot screen that’s in the flight control room that plots the trajectory of the vehicle. It was actually designed and built specifically for that purpose. Now, it has been since decommissioned and replaced with other projectors—they’re as good a quality a projector as what we had back then. Back then, you couldn’t get anything that was the quality we needed. So those are two pieces of equipment that we had, or, like I said, we still do have the Digital Voice System, DVIS, but the plotters are now—I remember the last plotter that we actually had designed and built for the control room cost us about a million and a half bucks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Projectors that we buy that are replacements today cost us about $10,000 or $15,000. So that’s what technology advancement has done for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Shuttle Program was pretty cost-conscious, so there wasn’t any unique equipment that you can think of?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.24315060646445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. I found it. Not really. Most of the equipment in the building now is COTS, Commercial Off-The-Shelf. Now, back in the Apollo days, there were some pieces of equipment that were designed and built specifically because there wasn’t anything out there off the shelf that would really support the requirements or the needs. Two pieces of equipment to come to mind regarding that are DVIS—Digital Voice Intercom System. It was a system that was designed and built by Ford—oh, golly—back in the early nineties. It’s still there; it’s still operating. Or else was when I left. I don’t know if it still is or not.\\n\\n The other piece of equipment that was designed and built specifically for the control center was the projection plotter. That’s the big screen, the 10 by 20-foot screen that’s in the flight control room that plots the trajectory of the vehicle. It was actually designed and built specifically for that purpose. Now, it has been since decommissioned and replaced with other projectors—they’re as good a quality a projector as what we had back then. Back then, you couldn’t get anything that was the quality we needed. So those are two pieces of equipment that we had, or, like I said, we still do have the Digital Voice System, DVIS, but the plotters are now—I remember the last plotter that we actually had designed and built for the control room cost us about a million and a half bucks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Projectors that we buy that are replacements today cost us about $10,000 or $15,000. So that’s what technology advancement has done for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Shuttle Program was pretty cost-conscious, so there wasn’t any unique equipment that you can think of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than what I’ve just told you, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I’m sorry, I misunderstood. I’m sorry, I thought that these two items were built for the Apollo Program, but continued to be used in Shuttle."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.381278451627168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Projectors that we buy that are replacements today cost us about $10,000 or $15,000. So that’s what technology advancement has done for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Shuttle Program was pretty cost-conscious, so there wasn’t any unique equipment that you can think of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than what I’ve just told you, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I’m sorry, I misunderstood. I’m sorry, I thought that these two items were built for the Apollo Program, but continued to be used in Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, like I said, the DVIS system was actually built in the early nineties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay, I misunderstood."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.75697605736352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than what I’ve just told you, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I’m sorry, I misunderstood. I’m sorry, I thought that these two items were built for the Apollo Program, but continued to be used in Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, like I said, the DVIS system was actually built in the early nineties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay, I misunderstood."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was well into the Shuttle Program. It was built to support the Shuttle Program. It was built to support the building, okay?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, yes. (laughs)"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 23.063306730403912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, like I said, the DVIS system was actually built in the early nineties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay, I misunderstood."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was well into the Shuttle Program. It was built to support the Shuttle Program. It was built to support the building, okay?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, yes. (laughs)"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then the other thing is the plotters. They did support Apollo, but they also supported Shuttle up until the time that technology built something that was an adequate replacement part. I don’t recall exactly when that was, but I think it was sometime in the mid-nineties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your time that you worked at the control center, the original control center was closed out, and there was a new flight control room established for the Shuttle Program. Can you tell us a little about that and why that decision was made?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.070340811559902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was well into the Shuttle Program. It was built to support the Shuttle Program. It was built to support the building, okay?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, yes. (laughs)"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then the other thing is the plotters. They did support Apollo, but they also supported Shuttle up until the time that technology built something that was an adequate replacement part. I don’t recall exactly when that was, but I think it was sometime in the mid-nineties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your time that you worked at the control center, the original control center was closed out, and there was a new flight control room established for the Shuttle Program. Can you tell us a little about that and why that decision was made?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The new building that was built, and it’s kind of attached to the old building, the new building was built to support the ISS, International Space Station. Matter of fact, initially, they called it SSCC, Space Station Control Center. That’s what it was built for. Due to budget crunches and stuff like that, we shut down the third floor control stuff because of budget problems, and then we flew the Shuttle flights out of the second-floor control room from then until when the new building got built.\\n\\n What they ended up doing in the new building was they put the International Space Station control room in a room that wasn’t really designed and built for that purpose—but again, this was all due to budget concerns and problems—and they took the Shuttle control room from the old building over to the new building, into the flight control room that was actually supposed to support Space Station. So that’s kind of how the sequence of events occurred there between how they got from the old building to the new building. Recently, they moved the International Space Station control room back over to the old building, into that second-floor flight control room. So that was the sequence of events, what happened there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a new Shuttle Mission Evaluation Room added in 2004."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.300378679511002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then the other thing is the plotters. They did support Apollo, but they also supported Shuttle up until the time that technology built something that was an adequate replacement part. I don’t recall exactly when that was, but I think it was sometime in the mid-nineties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your time that you worked at the control center, the original control center was closed out, and there was a new flight control room established for the Shuttle Program. Can you tell us a little about that and why that decision was made?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The new building that was built, and it’s kind of attached to the old building, the new building was built to support the ISS, International Space Station. Matter of fact, initially, they called it SSCC, Space Station Control Center. That’s what it was built for. Due to budget crunches and stuff like that, we shut down the third floor control stuff because of budget problems, and then we flew the Shuttle flights out of the second-floor control room from then until when the new building got built.\\n\\n What they ended up doing in the new building was they put the International Space Station control room in a room that wasn’t really designed and built for that purpose—but again, this was all due to budget concerns and problems—and they took the Shuttle control room from the old building over to the new building, into the flight control room that was actually supposed to support Space Station. So that’s kind of how the sequence of events occurred there between how they got from the old building to the new building. Recently, they moved the International Space Station control room back over to the old building, into that second-floor flight control room. So that was the sequence of events, what happened there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a new Shuttle Mission Evaluation Room added in 2004."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.5313317031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure can. Matter of fact, I was the project manager for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fantastic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see, where did I write that down? Well, I can’t find it. Where is that on your list?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s not one of the questions. I just had some notes."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 30.590368559, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure can. Matter of fact, I was the project manager for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fantastic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see, where did I write that down? Well, I can’t find it. Where is that on your list?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s not one of the questions. I just had some notes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wrote something down about that here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might have written it with the sections of questions about how the building had changed over time or any modifications of the building."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.100409510000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see, where did I write that down? Well, I can’t find it. Where is that on your list?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s not one of the questions. I just had some notes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wrote something down about that here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might have written it with the sections of questions about how the building had changed over time or any modifications of the building."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Let me just tell you what I wrote down. I know your question was specifically about the MER [Mission Evaluation Room], but basically what I said is the facility is really in constant change, because as the systems get old, they have to be replaced. So the systems and the facility is in constant change. For instance, back in I think it was ’98 or ’99, we built a new Customer Support Room [CSR] that was designed to support both programs, the Shuttle Program and the International Space Station Program. So that was built I think it was in ’98 or ’99, somewhere in there. Then the new MER was built, and that was a result of the Columbia accident. The MER folks decided they needed more room, and they came up with the money, and we built it.\\n\\n Then, most recently, the old FCR 1 [Flight Control Room] that was used for Apollo and Shuttle, it was converted and built into a Flight Control Room for the International Space Station ops, and the reason that was done is because the International Space Station control room over in the new building was pretty small, and people were not happy with being in confined spaces. So the Flight Control Room 1, was there, wasn’t being used for anything. Well, it was being used for something, but what it was being used for was payload and that kind of support, and that got moved into some other building, so it was available to convert and do the flight control room for the International Space Station controllers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like the building changes quite a bit, as you pointed out."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 27.8893439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wrote something down about that here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might have written it with the sections of questions about how the building had changed over time or any modifications of the building."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Let me just tell you what I wrote down. I know your question was specifically about the MER [Mission Evaluation Room], but basically what I said is the facility is really in constant change, because as the systems get old, they have to be replaced. So the systems and the facility is in constant change. For instance, back in I think it was ’98 or ’99, we built a new Customer Support Room [CSR] that was designed to support both programs, the Shuttle Program and the International Space Station Program. So that was built I think it was in ’98 or ’99, somewhere in there. Then the new MER was built, and that was a result of the Columbia accident. The MER folks decided they needed more room, and they came up with the money, and we built it.\\n\\n Then, most recently, the old FCR 1 [Flight Control Room] that was used for Apollo and Shuttle, it was converted and built into a Flight Control Room for the International Space Station ops, and the reason that was done is because the International Space Station control room over in the new building was pretty small, and people were not happy with being in confined spaces. So the Flight Control Room 1, was there, wasn’t being used for anything. Well, it was being used for something, but what it was being used for was payload and that kind of support, and that got moved into some other building, so it was available to convert and do the flight control room for the International Space Station controllers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like the building changes quite a bit, as you pointed out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know who the contractors were who made changes to the building in terms of these facility changes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.99919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know who the contractors were who made changes to the building in terms of these facility changes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s different ones, but the initial contractors in the building getting ready for Gemini and Apollo were Philco-Ford and IBM [International Business Machines]. The contracts to do the ops and development work in the building are redone about every—it could be as little as three years or as much as ten years, but they’re recompeted. For instance, in ’86, the ops contract was competed, and Rockwell Space Operations got that. That would be USA [United Space Alliance], primarily. Then Lockheed Martin did development work for the ISS [International Space Station] and Shuttle. Then, of course, I mentioned the Aeroneutronic Ford. So the contractors support that business change from time to time. Matter of fact, one of these documents that I have here says, “Contractual History of Major Implementation and Operations Milestones.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, fantastic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a document that picks up in April of 1962, and it is dated 1985, so it covers at least through ’85. The other one is a document called, “MCC Development History,” and it was compiled in 1990."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These two documents that you mentioned, you’d be willing to share those with our office so we can get them scanned and share them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.9991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s different ones, but the initial contractors in the building getting ready for Gemini and Apollo were Philco-Ford and IBM [International Business Machines]. The contracts to do the ops and development work in the building are redone about every—it could be as little as three years or as much as ten years, but they’re recompeted. For instance, in ’86, the ops contract was competed, and Rockwell Space Operations got that. That would be USA [United Space Alliance], primarily. Then Lockheed Martin did development work for the ISS [International Space Station] and Shuttle. Then, of course, I mentioned the Aeroneutronic Ford. So the contractors support that business change from time to time. Matter of fact, one of these documents that I have here says, “Contractual History of Major Implementation and Operations Milestones.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, fantastic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a document that picks up in April of 1962, and it is dated 1985, so it covers at least through ’85. The other one is a document called, “MCC Development History,” and it was compiled in 1990."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These two documents that you mentioned, you’d be willing to share those with our office so we can get them scanned and share them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’d be great."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a document that picks up in April of 1962, and it is dated 1985, so it covers at least through ’85. The other one is a document called, “MCC Development History,” and it was compiled in 1990."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These two documents that you mentioned, you’d be willing to share those with our office so we can get them scanned and share them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’d be great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Matter of fact, what I wrote down here is—I don’t know if you guys did an oral with Dennis [R.] Hehir."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, his name doesn’t sound familiar at all."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.11, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’d be great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Matter of fact, what I wrote down here is—I don’t know if you guys did an oral with Dennis [R.] Hehir."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, his name doesn’t sound familiar at all."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He took over as facility manager for the control center when I retired. He has copies of these."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you think I should just contact him directly?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He took over as facility manager for the control center when I retired. He has copies of these."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you think I should just contact him directly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would. He has the copies. Let me give you the names of them again. “MCC Development History,” August 1990. The information in that document—well, you’ll see; his name’s on it—Ray Loree is the guy that compiled it. The information came from different places. The other one was “The Contractual History of Major Implementation and Ops Milestones.” The document has a date of 1986 on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One other thing. There’s a letter. It’s a bunch of information, and it was compiled by Bob Legler, Robert [D.] Legler, in ’97. There were some questions that one of the reporters, John Getter—I don’t know if you remember him or not. I think he was a CBS reporter. A bunch of questions, historically MCC questions. This Getter got a bunch of good information. Dennis has that also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, great. I’ll send him an e-mail.\n\nJust a couple more questions. Do you think that there’s anyone else that we should talk to to get as much history as we can about the facility?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would. He has the copies. Let me give you the names of them again. “MCC Development History,” August 1990. The information in that document—well, you’ll see; his name’s on it—Ray Loree is the guy that compiled it. The information came from different places. The other one was “The Contractual History of Major Implementation and Ops Milestones.” The document has a date of 1986 on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One other thing. There’s a letter. It’s a bunch of information, and it was compiled by Bob Legler, Robert [D.] Legler, in ’97. There were some questions that one of the reporters, John Getter—I don’t know if you remember him or not. I think he was a CBS reporter. A bunch of questions, historically MCC questions. This Getter got a bunch of good information. Dennis has that also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, great. I’ll send him an e-mail.\n\nJust a couple more questions. Do you think that there’s anyone else that we should talk to to get as much history as we can about the facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don’t know if you remember Jack Knight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, actually, I think we’ve talked with Jack."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One other thing. There’s a letter. It’s a bunch of information, and it was compiled by Bob Legler, Robert [D.] Legler, in ’97. There were some questions that one of the reporters, John Getter—I don’t know if you remember him or not. I think he was a CBS reporter. A bunch of questions, historically MCC questions. This Getter got a bunch of good information. Dennis has that also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, great. I’ll send him an e-mail.\n\nJust a couple more questions. Do you think that there’s anyone else that we should talk to to get as much history as we can about the facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don’t know if you remember Jack Knight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, actually, I think we’ve talked with Jack."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you have?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, for our oral history project, not for this project."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00046:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don’t know if you remember Jack Knight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, actually, I think we’ve talked with Jack."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you have?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, for our oral history project, not for this project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was actually a flight controller. He was a division chief. He knows a whole lot about the history of the flight control part of the operation. Now, he was never—well, I won’t say never—he came over and became our division chief for a while, but he was mostly in the flight control operation, and he’s got a whole lot of history in his head about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, anybody else that you suggest?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00470:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 25, "return_to_go": 58.1708420302704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. And they have different tools, they have different machines, their analysis programs are different, everything is different, and you have to kind of—if you can understand what they're doing, you have to understand their tools and how they go about doing things and how they stress things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the redesign phase was over, you took a new position, which was of chief engineer of the International Space Station."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. What I did was, I agreed to go over and manage Option C, the design. You know, we had those three designs. Langley had one, Marshall had one, and JSC had one, and I think Langley's was Option A and Marshall's was Option B, and I had Option C.\\n\\n Option C basically was taking the external tank and converting it into a container, pressure container, for you to put all of the equipment in. We would launch it in place of the Orbiter. You hang it on the side of the external tank and launch it, one launch, put up their complete space station, and then the next launch is, you'd go up and you'd be servicing it. It was a ninety-day activity, and I headed that up for the Johnson Space Center. When that was over, when that was finished, then I retired. I guess I hung around a little while, because I stayed until Aaron left, and then when Aaron left, I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You seemed to work a great deal with Aaron Cohen. Why don't you tell us a little bit about him."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 43.90512869750006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "An important element and myself being what we might call over coordinated. I'm not an athlete. I was out on the soccer field for the first soccer game in which I broke my nose by Peter Von Christersen and a good friend and a very good player. And there were so many good players and among the men that were there. But I wasn't. And so I didn't I didn't jump to had the balls the right time. And I packed my head, my head hit his head and ended up with Dr. John Hoopas, who was trying to put my nose back together again. And he did as well as best he could. And then he said after it was all over, he said, I'm not a surgeon. And I was still a little bit of a kink in it. It may be when you come back with me, you may have to be broken again to make it straight. And I said vanity is not one of my strong points. And therefore I expected that people passing by my last remains might notice that. But who knows?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I will say, Tom, now that you pointed out, I can see that I could see that little curve."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a little crook there, in the nose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I would never have noticed it had it not been part of your story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that's good. That was part of my history in the Peace Corps. Yes, the training included the athletics. That was when I say I went along with it to be part of the group, but when I was not a champion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you played soccer. What other things did you do as part of this physical training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 47.67236521944451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a little crook there, in the nose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I would never have noticed it had it not been part of your story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that's good. That was part of my history in the Peace Corps. Yes, the training included the athletics. That was when I say I went along with it to be part of the group, but when I was not a champion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you played soccer. What other things did you do as part of this physical training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Swimming and those people who couldn't swim? They really were trying to learn how, because we knew that Bangladesh was a country of rivers and we had this impression that we needed to know that. And so there were there were experts who were brought in from the local fire company, I believe, and they and also the local emergency services. So they give us some good ideas about how to take care of yourself in a place where you were on your own. And we had to be aware that there were things that were especially dysentery, which was a very great concern because we knew that there had been at least one incident, I believe, in the Philippines where, you know, a volunteer had been lost. And so we were well aware of that. We needed to we needed to take care of making sure that we eat right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you say volunteer, in this case, it would have been a volunteer with the Experiment in International Living because the Peace Corps wasn't in the Philippines yet."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 47.608423460278196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you're by yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were all each individual. Each one of us went to a different location. We had a homestay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how, what language did they speak English or were you then on your own or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They spoke really good English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't have to rely on your Bengali."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 49.56491495586466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were all each individual. Each one of us went to a different location. We had a homestay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how, what language did they speak English or were you then on your own or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They spoke really good English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't have to rely on your Bengali."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very good English. And he was he was Muslim. And a surprising part of it was his wife was Hindu, most amazing. And he was he was quite a jokester. And he took me he took me to a party one night and we were there with a mixed group of Muslims and Hindus that were in the professional elevation society that he was at. And somebody handed me a drink and I thought it was just soda. And I took a little whiff of it and it was scotch. And I thought to myself, my goodness, I can't be drinking. This is a Muslim country. This will make a bad impression. And his name was, um, Shaukat Ali Khan. His name was Shaukat Ali Khan. He was a lawyer, defense lawyer. And he said when I put it down, he said, Tom, that's very expensive. You can't waste that. And so I had to drink it, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he wasn't offended. So he did he have any alcohol as a Muslim?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 37.740256582759585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so we're moving into. So you've spent about six months teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Six months teaching. And then in the next few months, I was a little handyman and then going around and learning and, you know, how things worked and helping troubleshoot troubleshooting projects here that helped in other areas. So I tried to be helpful to the people or our staff and in Dhaka. And I think I was then and then a bit then the next group was on its way into this irrigation project and they were going to need places to stay. So I. There were 16 volunteers coming in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, this is the next group of Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Next group of Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So East Pakistan II, if you will."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.16272255152623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So not only did I deliver water in kerosene, but I also worked with the irrigation workers. Then I found out that some of the villagers really, really were we needed to do something about you, about sanitation. And so I went to the USIS and I got myself a projector and a generator and got them shipped up. So I put it in the back of the jeep. And in the evenings, many evenings, we'd go out, we got dark and I'd go out into the village maybe 10, 15 kilometers out, and we'd set up the generator projector. And I had films in Bengali on sanitation and the latrines and washing your hands on the kinds of pathways of germs. And it was it was wonderful because people would come around and I mean, it's we're sitting in a room right now where there's a screen that's about the size that I had and the energy. And you can imagine if you get 50 people and 50 more and then 50 more and pretty soon 200 more, they're all in the back. And I can't see the film. They want to see it. And you have to come back the next day or another day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, technology."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe those films you borrowed from USIS."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first film was very professional done USIS film, which was when President Ayub Khan visited the United States and flew in in a Pakistani Air or Airways. PIA, Pakistan International Air, PIA. And it was it was in color and it was wonderful. And it was it was the language was Bangla and it was translated wonderfully in Bangla and the Bengalis absolutely loved it. Here was their president flying into the United States and its beautiful jet flying into Washington. And then he was shown traveling around Washington and they said that was you couldn't hear a thing that was so quiet and you watch at night cheering once in a while. But they watched and listened to every word and it was amazing. And so that was my that was my headline act."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. That brought them in."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.958580612806923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe those films you borrowed from USIS."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first film was very professional done USIS film, which was when President Ayub Khan visited the United States and flew in in a Pakistani Air or Airways. PIA, Pakistan International Air, PIA. And it was it was in color and it was wonderful. And it was it was the language was Bangla and it was translated wonderfully in Bangla and the Bengalis absolutely loved it. Here was their president flying into the United States and its beautiful jet flying into Washington. And then he was shown traveling around Washington and they said that was you couldn't hear a thing that was so quiet and you watch at night cheering once in a while. But they watched and listened to every word and it was amazing. And so that was my that was my headline act."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. That brought them in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That brought them in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what kind of film was this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.953978458674356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first film was very professional done USIS film, which was when President Ayub Khan visited the United States and flew in in a Pakistani Air or Airways. PIA, Pakistan International Air, PIA. And it was it was in color and it was wonderful. And it was it was the language was Bangla and it was translated wonderfully in Bangla and the Bengalis absolutely loved it. Here was their president flying into the United States and its beautiful jet flying into Washington. And then he was shown traveling around Washington and they said that was you couldn't hear a thing that was so quiet and you watch at night cheering once in a while. But they watched and listened to every word and it was amazing. And so that was my that was my headline act."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. That brought them in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That brought them in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what kind of film was this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was this was films that were produced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I mean the technology, the film itself."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 19.948864954082616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That brought them in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what kind of film was this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was this was films that were produced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I mean the technology, the film itself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, the film itself was eight or sixteen millimeter. That was 16 millimeter, not eight. That was definitely 16. So I had gotten a projector that was available in Dhaka and they let me have it to use for this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was there electricity?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.594250263119733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. We had snake bit kits and we kept them. Like I say, I don't remember anybody got bit. But we were we were very careful with that in the Bengalis were even more so because they didn't have access to snakebite kits. But if we'd be out on a jeep driving along or even walking along and we'd be a group of Bengalese and you see snakes slithering along, there would be like a riot. They would pick up every piece of clod of dirt they could and they chase after and try to kill the snake. And it would be like they would descend on it because they were terrified. They knew exactly what would happen if they got bit. But we tried to avoid that. It was small stakes. Snakes and snakes. They were called the crates. It's and it would be up in the straw hat on the top of the buildings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The roof of the house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Roof of the house, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did they bite? Were they venomous?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The crates were very venomous. And so we had too many problems with that. Generally we lived in what they call paca housing, which is which was like cement, didn't always have. My two daughters who were in Peace Corps later on, they lived in these kind of houses in Africa where they could hear this stuff up above them. But, um, during that period, we tried to work with each other, help each other, and we had a lot of pressure that nobody would go home. And so nobody at the end of the period of time, he said, the 29 of us, there were two that dropped out during training. So 29 went over and 29 came back. Two years later, we didn't lose anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite usual."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.438055847910814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Roof of the house, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did they bite? Were they venomous?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The crates were very venomous. And so we had too many problems with that. Generally we lived in what they call paca housing, which is which was like cement, didn't always have. My two daughters who were in Peace Corps later on, they lived in these kind of houses in Africa where they could hear this stuff up above them. But, um, during that period, we tried to work with each other, help each other, and we had a lot of pressure that nobody would go home. And so nobody at the end of the period of time, he said, the 29 of us, there were two that dropped out during training. So 29 went over and 29 came back. Two years later, we didn't lose anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite usual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a lot of pressure. And so I put pressure on a couple of the guys and we put undue pressure on. And I said, you can't do this. You're not leaving. No, we're not going to let you go. But nowadays, a lot more volunteers leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it has either of those guys that you pressured into staying. Have they ever thanked you for doing that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.486728719900903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The crates were very venomous. And so we had too many problems with that. Generally we lived in what they call paca housing, which is which was like cement, didn't always have. My two daughters who were in Peace Corps later on, they lived in these kind of houses in Africa where they could hear this stuff up above them. But, um, during that period, we tried to work with each other, help each other, and we had a lot of pressure that nobody would go home. And so nobody at the end of the period of time, he said, the 29 of us, there were two that dropped out during training. So 29 went over and 29 came back. Two years later, we didn't lose anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite usual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a lot of pressure. And so I put pressure on a couple of the guys and we put undue pressure on. And I said, you can't do this. You're not leaving. No, we're not going to let you go. But nowadays, a lot more volunteers leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it has either of those guys that you pressured into staying. Have they ever thanked you for doing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I think he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were pleased with that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.763031911001004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a lot of pressure. And so I put pressure on a couple of the guys and we put undue pressure on. And I said, you can't do this. You're not leaving. No, we're not going to let you go. But nowadays, a lot more volunteers leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it has either of those guys that you pressured into staying. Have they ever thanked you for doing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I think he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were pleased with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They went through the periods of down, you know, some depression and he got through it. Yeah, they were glad you could look back and say they did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, well, here we are. It sounds like close to the end of your two years there."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.73670212333445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I think he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were pleased with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They went through the periods of down, you know, some depression and he got through it. Yeah, they were glad you could look back and say they did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, well, here we are. It sounds like close to the end of your two years there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. At the end of the two years then I, uh, I had applied for a Ford Foundation fellowship while I was there. And I got accepted to Penn State with a fellowship that allowed me to go to Penn State for two years or I got back and get a master's degree in nuclear engineering. And I took nuclear because I felt that that was going to be the power source for a developing world. And as it turned out, it wasn't so much because even in this country, we had a long problem of adoption. And even though I never came back, I worked. After I got a graduate degree in nuclear engineering, I worked and helped design and build and start up nuclear power plant. So I became pretty good at that and but I, you know, coincidentally ended up in back and forth to Japan doing those kind of things for many, many years and then started my own company after that. That's a different story that we want to concentrate on Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Well, but these are irrelevant, aren't they? You know, interrelated. So, uh, any memorable things you want to reflect on or say about the Peace Corps, those two years themselves?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.493429902208925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in favor of this crisis going on. So do something about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was one of the more memorable times. Then I had another occurrence where there was a whole town went on strike and they were protesting something for the government and no one was supposed to drive. And someone in my second group was driving. They learn to drive a jeep and they were driving and they encountered a large group of people and they were making a lot of noise and they stopped the jeep and somehow one of them had a stone or brick. And I don't think it was thrown, but I think it was dropped and it damn near opened the skin. It was bloodied the skin of one guy's leg. So it might have been dropped. I had specific instructions that I had to report anything like this back to Karachi. So I did. And I called and I said, I have to report this. And he's been he's been slightly hurt. It's OK. A doctor looked at his bandage and everything's fine. What wouldn't you know, in Time magazine the next week there was a report of this incident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps volunteer hurt in East Pakistan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think I might have been named or who is the, you know, reported that the Peace Corps volunteer had been hurt on this. I thought, oh my god. Mountain out of a molehill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed with this same company then for fifteen years. And then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.99269989134325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was one of the more memorable times. Then I had another occurrence where there was a whole town went on strike and they were protesting something for the government and no one was supposed to drive. And someone in my second group was driving. They learn to drive a jeep and they were driving and they encountered a large group of people and they were making a lot of noise and they stopped the jeep and somehow one of them had a stone or brick. And I don't think it was thrown, but I think it was dropped and it damn near opened the skin. It was bloodied the skin of one guy's leg. So it might have been dropped. I had specific instructions that I had to report anything like this back to Karachi. So I did. And I called and I said, I have to report this. And he's been he's been slightly hurt. It's OK. A doctor looked at his bandage and everything's fine. What wouldn't you know, in Time magazine the next week there was a report of this incident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps volunteer hurt in East Pakistan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think I might have been named or who is the, you know, reported that the Peace Corps volunteer had been hurt on this. I thought, oh my god. Mountain out of a molehill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed with this same company then for fifteen years. And then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I started my own company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you started your own company. And by this time you were living in Reading?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.658555434825832, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think I might have been named or who is the, you know, reported that the Peace Corps volunteer had been hurt on this. I thought, oh my god. Mountain out of a molehill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed with this same company then for fifteen years. And then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I started my own company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you started your own company. And by this time you were living in Reading?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What took you to Reading in the first place?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 18.509506038695367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I started my own company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you started your own company. And by this time you were living in Reading?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What took you to Reading in the first place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The engineering company. The large company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[01:08:17]. I see. So you moved, right."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.788340042994852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What took you to Reading in the first place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The engineering company. The large company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[01:08:17]. I see. So you moved, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then when I started the company, I eventually took on two partners and we built it to about 120 people. And then we became pretty successful. And I determined at that time when I was 60, I was going to leave and we trained the next group of people. We hired not just any engineers, but we hired guys who knew how to run a business and we had to learn how to run a business, too. So when I did that and and then I became the marketing the outside guy, and so I became involved in a chamber of commerce and politics and then got. It got to help people on their political campaigns and always was inclined that way anyway, so when I did leave, um, that business and, uh, we, um, there was an opportunity to run for mayor of Reading, which happened in 2003 and I was elected in 2004. Four years later, became very active in the Obama campaign and eventually was able to spend time with candidate Obama, Senator Obama. My most memorable time was a bus ride, which was just he and I and one Secret Service guy and one staffer. And we were about a half an hour together going from one part of Pennsylvania to back to Reading."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was that, 2007?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.987044492216501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The engineering company. The large company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[01:08:17]. I see. So you moved, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then when I started the company, I eventually took on two partners and we built it to about 120 people. And then we became pretty successful. And I determined at that time when I was 60, I was going to leave and we trained the next group of people. We hired not just any engineers, but we hired guys who knew how to run a business and we had to learn how to run a business, too. So when I did that and and then I became the marketing the outside guy, and so I became involved in a chamber of commerce and politics and then got. It got to help people on their political campaigns and always was inclined that way anyway, so when I did leave, um, that business and, uh, we, um, there was an opportunity to run for mayor of Reading, which happened in 2003 and I was elected in 2004. Four years later, became very active in the Obama campaign and eventually was able to spend time with candidate Obama, Senator Obama. My most memorable time was a bus ride, which was just he and I and one Secret Service guy and one staffer. And we were about a half an hour together going from one part of Pennsylvania to back to Reading."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was that, 2007?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in ‘07 for the ‘08 campaign coming up. He was just before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was starting his campaign."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.687709249650002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in ‘07 for the ‘08 campaign coming up. He was just before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was starting his campaign."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we had a wonderful conversation. And I tell him about some of this. He asked me about the city. We talked about Peace Corps. We talked about the city. He talked about things we needed in the city. And I talked about a literacy program which started a whole bunch of things about that. I was very happy with the literacy program I was filling with some of the inner city kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Reading?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Reading. It was called Cops and Kids. It was a policeman working reading with kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help set that up?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.764121388500001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we had a wonderful conversation. And I tell him about some of this. He asked me about the city. We talked about Peace Corps. We talked about the city. He talked about things we needed in the city. And I talked about a literacy program which started a whole bunch of things about that. I was very happy with the literacy program I was filling with some of the inner city kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Reading?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Reading. It was called Cops and Kids. It was a policeman working reading with kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help set that up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, but I borrowed it from Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, who borrowed it from Racine, Wisconsin. And I got to know, everybody in that loop. I told the president this is a great thing that we should do all over the country. Later on, one of my major friends and I was that I had become and a certain point president of the Pennsylvania Municipal League. So all the mayors were I was president my last year. And so he came to me and said, what did you talk to the president about? And I said I talked about our literacy program. He's said, literacy program, I want to talk to you about money, get money for our projects! I said, yeah, I had to do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how long were you mayor?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.849023765000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Reading. It was called Cops and Kids. It was a policeman working reading with kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help set that up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, but I borrowed it from Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, who borrowed it from Racine, Wisconsin. And I got to know, everybody in that loop. I told the president this is a great thing that we should do all over the country. Later on, one of my major friends and I was that I had become and a certain point president of the Pennsylvania Municipal League. So all the mayors were I was president my last year. And so he came to me and said, what did you talk to the president about? And I said I talked about our literacy program. He's said, literacy program, I want to talk to you about money, get money for our projects! I said, yeah, I had to do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how long were you mayor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eight years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eight years. And is it like a term limit?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 13.393856500000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eight years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eight years. And is it like a term limit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. There was a limit on my ability to keep doing 24/7."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was 2012 that you do finished your mayor position. So we're about to, we're about to bring closure here. And before we do that, is there anything that you would like to reflect on before we close this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.104285000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. There was a limit on my ability to keep doing 24/7."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was 2012 that you do finished your mayor position. So we're about to, we're about to bring closure here. And before we do that, is there anything that you would like to reflect on before we close this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, only the fact that. Well, I have three daughters, the oldest daughter, when she graduated college, decided to go in Peace Corps and I had never pushed it at all. So she went to West Africa in Guinea-Bissau and was there for twenty three months, less than the total term. And there was it was a revolution. She managed to be evacuated. Thank you to our U.S. government got her out. And then my she came home safely and my middle daughter then joined the Peace Corps and went to Cape Verde Islands for two years and became a teacher. She was interested in theater so she formed theater groups. Eventually, she came back to the U.S. and got her master's and Ph.D. in African theater. And so she's teaching at UC Santa Barbara. And so we became immersed in Peace Corps type things. So that was the strongest. And my love for travel was never diminished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And have did you visit your Peace Corps daughters when they were?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.893650000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was 2012 that you do finished your mayor position. So we're about to, we're about to bring closure here. And before we do that, is there anything that you would like to reflect on before we close this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, only the fact that. Well, I have three daughters, the oldest daughter, when she graduated college, decided to go in Peace Corps and I had never pushed it at all. So she went to West Africa in Guinea-Bissau and was there for twenty three months, less than the total term. And there was it was a revolution. She managed to be evacuated. Thank you to our U.S. government got her out. And then my she came home safely and my middle daughter then joined the Peace Corps and went to Cape Verde Islands for two years and became a teacher. She was interested in theater so she formed theater groups. Eventually, she came back to the U.S. and got her master's and Ph.D. in African theater. And so she's teaching at UC Santa Barbara. And so we became immersed in Peace Corps type things. So that was the strongest. And my love for travel was never diminished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And have did you visit your Peace Corps daughters when they were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many times have you been back to Bangladesh?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.548500000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, only the fact that. Well, I have three daughters, the oldest daughter, when she graduated college, decided to go in Peace Corps and I had never pushed it at all. So she went to West Africa in Guinea-Bissau and was there for twenty three months, less than the total term. And there was it was a revolution. She managed to be evacuated. Thank you to our U.S. government got her out. And then my she came home safely and my middle daughter then joined the Peace Corps and went to Cape Verde Islands for two years and became a teacher. She was interested in theater so she formed theater groups. Eventually, she came back to the U.S. and got her master's and Ph.D. in African theater. And so she's teaching at UC Santa Barbara. And so we became immersed in Peace Corps type things. So that was the strongest. And my love for travel was never diminished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And have did you visit your Peace Corps daughters when they were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many times have you been back to Bangladesh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twice. I went back twice. Once after about thirty years ago and after four years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that means it's been a while since you've been back."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.165000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many times have you been back to Bangladesh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twice. I went back twice. Once after about thirty years ago and after four years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that means it's been a while since you've been back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Last I was back is 2002. 16, 17, 18 years ago, and I went back and I want to do some of the visiting and I stopped to see the Peace Corps director and I also asked if there was any travel around the country. Is there anything I can do to help? They told me of a couple of cases where there some volunteers having problems. And what I stop and talk to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was in Bangladesh?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.8500000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twice. I went back twice. Once after about thirty years ago and after four years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that means it's been a while since you've been back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Last I was back is 2002. 16, 17, 18 years ago, and I went back and I want to do some of the visiting and I stopped to see the Peace Corps director and I also asked if there was any travel around the country. Is there anything I can do to help? They told me of a couple of cases where there some volunteers having problems. And what I stop and talk to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was in Bangladesh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Bangladesh, which I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Is Peace Corps still in Bangladesh?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Last I was back is 2002. 16, 17, 18 years ago, and I went back and I want to do some of the visiting and I stopped to see the Peace Corps director and I also asked if there was any travel around the country. Is there anything I can do to help? They told me of a couple of cases where there some volunteers having problems. And what I stop and talk to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was in Bangladesh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Bangladesh, which I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Is Peace Corps still in Bangladesh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, long gone. And they left year after that, shortly after I was there, but not because of me. Yeah, but I did spend some time with a couple of volunteers who were having some issues. So I think that might have helped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Well, Tom, this has been a great opportunity to hear your stories and learn about your Peace Corps experience and how it's impacted your life and how you grew up in Bangladesh."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00057:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, long gone. And they left year after that, shortly after I was there, but not because of me. Yeah, but I did spend some time with a couple of volunteers who were having some issues. So I think that might have helped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Well, Tom, this has been a great opportunity to hear your stories and learn about your Peace Corps experience and how it's impacted your life and how you grew up in Bangladesh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You that definitely you know, it was a great experience. I wish I wish it was the way that we could, uh, somehow bottle it, or convey it in a meaningful way so people get a glimpse of what it was like, what the value of it is. And it's hard to it's hard to say that. And it's hard to tell people sometimes in a short amount of time. But, uh, so I coordinate our sister city relationship with Germany right now. I've been doing this for years, so I'll be be over there and next month and I help with students back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Reutlingen, which is near Stuttgart. R-E-U-T-L-I-N-G-E-N. It's a city about a little bit bigger than Reading and which but I've become great friends with the mayor of Reutlingen. So we have exchange programs with students from our high school and the history museum and musical exchange. And I've been really interested in, I love classical music symphony, so I'm trying to get what I want. My goal is to get Beethoven's Ninth and, you know, combination of Germans and chorus and orchestra and everything all together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What a great dream. So hold that thought about how we can portray the Peace Corps experience most effectively. That is exactly what the Museum of the Peace Corps Experience wants to do. So with that, I'll end this interview and we can talk about the museum."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00840:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think my biggest challenge—I don’t know. That’s a good question. There’s three that pop in my head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You can talk about all of them if you want."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One is the Constellation cancellation. One is the Shuttle fly-out. Making sure we did that, and did that well. I think the last one probably from a challenge perspective, the biggest one, and it’s probably because it’s the most recent, was just the Acting Administrator job. I was so worried that I would hurt this great institution that I believe in so much that I just felt like I had to really jump in with both feet, make sure we didn’t have that happen. Yes, it’s not just me, it’s the whole team that does that, but when you’re at the top you kind of feel like it’s you. I didn’t want to hurt the team. I wanted to make sure the team was left with a good mission and good plans to go forward. Felt like I did that, but boy, it’s constantly on your mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you’d like to mention before we go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. I think you guys have covered the waterfront."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We like to cover as much as we can. I do appreciate you talking to me again, I really do, and just wrapping this up a little bit from our last interview."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.773623518528936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, just reached up and said, “Hey, how’s it going?” and pulled himself up. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oops. [Laughs] Well, then that shows the value of simulations again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, you bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To find all the little details as well as the bigger ones.\\n\\n Were there any other thoughts that you had on the early programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think we covered them pretty much last time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay.\\n\\n Well, then moving on in your career. We had talked up through Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project, ASTP], I believe, briefly, and at that time you were in the Electrical Environmental Systems Branch. At what point did you begin to get involved with the Shuttle systems? Do you recall if that was before Apollo-Soyuz or after or even during Skylab?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 34.192915020587705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, you bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To find all the little details as well as the bigger ones.\\n\\n Were there any other thoughts that you had on the early programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think we covered them pretty much last time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay.\\n\\n Well, then moving on in your career. We had talked up through Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project, ASTP], I believe, briefly, and at that time you were in the Electrical Environmental Systems Branch. At what point did you begin to get involved with the Shuttle systems? Do you recall if that was before Apollo-Soyuz or after or even during Skylab?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, Apollo-Soyuz was after Skylab, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo-Soyuz was in ’75."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.744339531589755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, Apollo-Soyuz was after Skylab, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo-Soyuz was in ’75."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My sense is, we started getting involved with Shuttle immediately after Skylab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We reorganized. Like all through Skylab, I had what was called a Saturn Workshop CSM [Command and Service Module] Systems Branch. So we had all the systems onboard Skylab.\\n\\n Then after Skylab, we split it up, and we took the traditional EECOM stuff, and that became my branch. We made it basically a GNC [Guidance, Navigation, and Control] branch, and that was Neil. Neil [B.] Hutchinson ran that. And then right in there sometime is when we also made the INCOs a separate branch, the INCOs and O&P [Operations and Procedures] officers. But it must not have been right then, because Ed [Edward I.] Fendell was in my branch for a while. Ed was, of course, head of the INCOs.\\n\\n So I guess we just had the systems split into the two branches for a while, and we had Neil’s branch and my branch, basically the GNC branch and the EECOM branch. My recollection is, that happened right after Skylab. So we must have been in that configuration for ASTP."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were gearing for Shuttle, and here we are—ASTP did come briefly in this time frame, but that was single mission, very focused. So the time between Skylab ASTP and Shuttle was a number of years. Shuttle didn’t actually launch until ’81. What were your responsibilities during that time, and how much training did you do, and how much did changes in the development of Shuttle affect your role?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.04926614621084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My sense is, we started getting involved with Shuttle immediately after Skylab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We reorganized. Like all through Skylab, I had what was called a Saturn Workshop CSM [Command and Service Module] Systems Branch. So we had all the systems onboard Skylab.\\n\\n Then after Skylab, we split it up, and we took the traditional EECOM stuff, and that became my branch. We made it basically a GNC [Guidance, Navigation, and Control] branch, and that was Neil. Neil [B.] Hutchinson ran that. And then right in there sometime is when we also made the INCOs a separate branch, the INCOs and O&P [Operations and Procedures] officers. But it must not have been right then, because Ed [Edward I.] Fendell was in my branch for a while. Ed was, of course, head of the INCOs.\\n\\n So I guess we just had the systems split into the two branches for a while, and we had Neil’s branch and my branch, basically the GNC branch and the EECOM branch. My recollection is, that happened right after Skylab. So we must have been in that configuration for ASTP."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were gearing for Shuttle, and here we are—ASTP did come briefly in this time frame, but that was single mission, very focused. So the time between Skylab ASTP and Shuttle was a number of years. Shuttle didn’t actually launch until ’81. What were your responsibilities during that time, and how much training did you do, and how much did changes in the development of Shuttle affect your role?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, now, don’t forget we had the Approach and Landing Tests [ALT] for Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your group involved with that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 39.69045203235906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, now, don’t forget we had the Approach and Landing Tests [ALT] for Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your group involved with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall how many years that was before the actual launch. Maybe a couple of years?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that was in ’77-’78 time frame, so it was a few years. It was kind of right in the middle between the programs."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 33.74403626948874, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not for Gemini, not for Apollo. In my program office years, after I left mission operations and was in a program office, yes I was able to see about three or four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does it still look as speedy in person, or by then were you used to seeing it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Huh?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it still look as fast at that point when you were able to—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, by then, you were used to how quick it got off. What I never did get used to the times that I saw it was just the feel of the thing, the sound and the feel. It’s amazing when you see and hear that thing. It’s a lot of power being unleashed there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it is."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 34.74572378949227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, by then, you were used to how quick it got off. What I never did get used to the times that I saw it was just the feel of the thing, the sound and the feel. It’s amazing when you see and hear that thing. It’s a lot of power being unleashed there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was able to see—I guess 3 or 4 when I’d be down at the Cape maybe for other reasons.\\n\\n Jim [James C.] Adamson, one of the astronauts that used to work in flight control, we were real good friends with he and his wife, and he’d invited us, my wife and I, down for his launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that one didn’t go, had an engine problem, I think, the day, the night before launch, and that one got called off.\\n\\n But my wife did get to see another one. We went down to see—it was a night launch, too. I guess it was Bill [William F.] Readdy’s flight, we went down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that’s great."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.998969348410707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s neat. Oh, that’s quite a story, the chili. Yes, chili cookoffs certainly have become a very big production here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. Have you ever been to one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, very interesting experience, very unique.\\n\\n Well, with the STS-1, you mentioned that you were in the control center, that you remember the launch, in the SPAN. Do you recall any specifics about the mission, any of the discussions about some of the tiles that had fallen off? I know it was a short mission then."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.332188164900785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. Have you ever been to one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, very interesting experience, very unique.\\n\\n Well, with the STS-1, you mentioned that you were in the control center, that you remember the launch, in the SPAN. Do you recall any specifics about the mission, any of the discussions about some of the tiles that had fallen off? I know it was a short mission then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot of specifics. In fact, I was talking to somebody about that the other day—Bob [Robert D.] Legler, I guess it was. I don’t know if you guys ever talked to Legler or heard of Legler, but he’s a—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re hoping to talk to him soon."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.813542405445315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, very interesting experience, very unique.\\n\\n Well, with the STS-1, you mentioned that you were in the control center, that you remember the launch, in the SPAN. Do you recall any specifics about the mission, any of the discussions about some of the tiles that had fallen off? I know it was a short mission then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot of specifics. In fact, I was talking to somebody about that the other day—Bob [Robert D.] Legler, I guess it was. I don’t know if you guys ever talked to Legler or heard of Legler, but he’s a—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re hoping to talk to him soon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. But we were talking about STS-1 and the tiles that we lost, and I want to say that we called up some ground-based telescopes and looked at the Shuttle, convinced ourself that everything was going to be all right, but, yes, that had a lot of people scratching our heads. Other than that, my recollection of STS-1 was that most of the systems worked pretty good. It may have been that we were concentrating so much on the tiles that I may have forgotten something else, but my recollection was they all worked pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think they did. I think everything worked pretty smoothly, especially considering that this was a first flight and completely hadn’t been done at all before, so pretty successful one.\\n\\n As the missions progressed up until you moved—in 1984, you changed positions, but during the ’81 to ’84 time frame, did you continue to work in the SPAN room supporting the various missions?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.459491561605905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot of specifics. In fact, I was talking to somebody about that the other day—Bob [Robert D.] Legler, I guess it was. I don’t know if you guys ever talked to Legler or heard of Legler, but he’s a—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re hoping to talk to him soon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. But we were talking about STS-1 and the tiles that we lost, and I want to say that we called up some ground-based telescopes and looked at the Shuttle, convinced ourself that everything was going to be all right, but, yes, that had a lot of people scratching our heads. Other than that, my recollection of STS-1 was that most of the systems worked pretty good. It may have been that we were concentrating so much on the tiles that I may have forgotten something else, but my recollection was they all worked pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think they did. I think everything worked pretty smoothly, especially considering that this was a first flight and completely hadn’t been done at all before, so pretty successful one.\\n\\n As the missions progressed up until you moved—in 1984, you changed positions, but during the ’81 to ’84 time frame, did you continue to work in the SPAN room supporting the various missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, every one of them, yes. Yes, that was always a great break from office work to be able to go over and sit in SPAN during the missions, and you’d even take the midnight shifts just to go do it. So, yes, SPAN was always a lot of fun. Working the missions was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I could imagine that, and certainly it’s a very active job and you have to be on top of things."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 29.399435068451005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. But we were talking about STS-1 and the tiles that we lost, and I want to say that we called up some ground-based telescopes and looked at the Shuttle, convinced ourself that everything was going to be all right, but, yes, that had a lot of people scratching our heads. Other than that, my recollection of STS-1 was that most of the systems worked pretty good. It may have been that we were concentrating so much on the tiles that I may have forgotten something else, but my recollection was they all worked pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think they did. I think everything worked pretty smoothly, especially considering that this was a first flight and completely hadn’t been done at all before, so pretty successful one.\\n\\n As the missions progressed up until you moved—in 1984, you changed positions, but during the ’81 to ’84 time frame, did you continue to work in the SPAN room supporting the various missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, every one of them, yes. Yes, that was always a great break from office work to be able to go over and sit in SPAN during the missions, and you’d even take the midnight shifts just to go do it. So, yes, SPAN was always a lot of fun. Working the missions was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I could imagine that, and certainly it’s a very active job and you have to be on top of things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall any particular memories from any of those flights or any incidents that happened either technically or on an anecdote side that you’d like to mention?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.713270275441685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, DoD had a whole control room—they had another SSR, staff support room, which is what our back rooms were called. There was one staff support room that was totally DoD, and since these were DoD payloads, they, I’m sure, reported to the payload officer out in the front room.\\n\\n So, theoretically—see, there was nothing classified about the Shuttle. We could talk about our systems all day long, and that wasn’t classified. The real classified things about these missions was the payloads. I think they used to classify the time of launch. Probably the orbit that we were in was classified. But most of those things didn’t affect EECOMs, so we didn’t have a lot of stuff in the office that we had to be real careful about safeguarding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they would probably only tell you what you needed to know that affected your systems for those types of missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as you went through and started developing things like mission rules and what have you, yes, you would become exposed to some of the classified aspects like what time a launch was, say, what kind of orbit you were going to, that sort of thing. Yes, you just found that out.\\n\\n If it had been possible, you probably could have done all your EECOM duties and never had to know any of that stuff, but because it would come out in the mission rules review, because when you’d go review mission rules with the flight director, you’d have the entire team—EECOMs, GNCs, Boosters, everybody in there, going over the rules.\\n\\n So when you got around to the payload rules, yes, some of the classified stuff would come out, but EECOMs didn’t really need to know that since our systems just cranked along and did what they were supposed to do to, you know, keep Shuttle running."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a different aspect to things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, eventually, in 1984, you moved into a new role in the Vehicle Systems Integration Office. What were your duties in this position?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.093041838882428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, everything that FOD [Flight Operations Directorate] was responsible for, so, yes, including payloads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you were taking some of the meeting role for the flight controllers so that they wouldn’t have to spend that time. If a topic came up that you needed input from the flight controllers, that was one of your roles, was to interface with them to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. We would try to have pre-tagups to make sure that the people within FOD were able to make inputs. In fact, let’s say there was a change coming through the system to change something. One of things we would do, I think we had some evaluation sheets, and we would look at it and see which flight control disciplines might be affected by this change. We’d send them a description of the change and ask them to evaluate it for us. The input would come back to us, and then we’d take and meld the inputs together from the different areas that we had gotten within FOD, and then we’d take that to the program. And many times the flight controllers themselves would come over and participate in the meetings when they were really interested in one of these changes, or when we’d ask them to come over, because we thought that we might need their help or something. So, yes, we were very actively involved with pulling all those inputs together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were these changes something that would come about for specific missions, or were they changes that would come about just as the program grew and as different situations were discovered or new techniques were decided to be employed, or was it kind of some of both?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of both. Yes, you might talk about adding a payload to a mission, to leading a payload for a mission, or you might talk about a hardware change to a fuel cell or an ohms thruster or something. So, yes, it could be both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About how frequently would you have these meetings?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.77004648764714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. We would try to have pre-tagups to make sure that the people within FOD were able to make inputs. In fact, let’s say there was a change coming through the system to change something. One of things we would do, I think we had some evaluation sheets, and we would look at it and see which flight control disciplines might be affected by this change. We’d send them a description of the change and ask them to evaluate it for us. The input would come back to us, and then we’d take and meld the inputs together from the different areas that we had gotten within FOD, and then we’d take that to the program. And many times the flight controllers themselves would come over and participate in the meetings when they were really interested in one of these changes, or when we’d ask them to come over, because we thought that we might need their help or something. So, yes, we were very actively involved with pulling all those inputs together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were these changes something that would come about for specific missions, or were they changes that would come about just as the program grew and as different situations were discovered or new techniques were decided to be employed, or was it kind of some of both?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of both. Yes, you might talk about adding a payload to a mission, to leading a payload for a mission, or you might talk about a hardware change to a fuel cell or an ohms thruster or something. So, yes, it could be both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About how frequently would you have these meetings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The PRCB used to meet once a week, the CCB once a week. Most all of those meetings were once a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty busy schedule for you then."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.6333849862746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of both. Yes, you might talk about adding a payload to a mission, to leading a payload for a mission, or you might talk about a hardware change to a fuel cell or an ohms thruster or something. So, yes, it could be both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About how frequently would you have these meetings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The PRCB used to meet once a week, the CCB once a week. Most all of those meetings were once a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty busy schedule for you then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. Oh yes, it kept you busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it sounds like it was an interesting task, you know, trying to coordinate."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.703761095860667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The PRCB used to meet once a week, the CCB once a week. Most all of those meetings were once a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty busy schedule for you then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. Oh yes, it kept you busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it sounds like it was an interesting task, you know, trying to coordinate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes, it was, very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall during those times any specific changes that came up that were either problematical or that produced interesting results or anything that you’d like to mention?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.00417899540074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. Oh yes, it kept you busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it sounds like it was an interesting task, you know, trying to coordinate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes, it was, very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall during those times any specific changes that came up that were either problematical or that produced interesting results or anything that you’d like to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nothing that I can think of right off the top of my head. Nothing stands out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, that’s okay. Certainly a lot of missions and a lot of things going on. So I can understand that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.5601988837786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes, it was, very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall during those times any specific changes that came up that were either problematical or that produced interesting results or anything that you’d like to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nothing that I can think of right off the top of my head. Nothing stands out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, that’s okay. Certainly a lot of missions and a lot of things going on. So I can understand that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By the way, let me say that I think—my recollection is that I also even—I’m sure, yes, even with doing that, I took the SPAN duties with me. So, yes, I was still doing the SPAN, sure was, yes, still doing the SPAN stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, that would definitely keep you busy, then."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.400220981976222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nothing that I can think of right off the top of my head. Nothing stands out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, that’s okay. Certainly a lot of missions and a lot of things going on. So I can understand that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By the way, let me say that I think—my recollection is that I also even—I’m sure, yes, even with doing that, I took the SPAN duties with me. So, yes, I was still doing the SPAN, sure was, yes, still doing the SPAN stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, that would definitely keep you busy, then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you would work the SPAN, would you just kind of work your schedule around the meetings so that you were able to do both, or would someone fill in for you during the meetings while you were in the SPAN room?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 31.55580109108469, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By the way, let me say that I think—my recollection is that I also even—I’m sure, yes, even with doing that, I took the SPAN duties with me. So, yes, I was still doing the SPAN, sure was, yes, still doing the SPAN stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, that would definitely keep you busy, then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you would work the SPAN, would you just kind of work your schedule around the meetings so that you were able to do both, or would someone fill in for you during the meetings while you were in the SPAN room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we’d just have someone sit in the meeting for us, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the astronauts and crew participate in these configuration meetings, control meetings, the boards?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.06200121231632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you would work the SPAN, would you just kind of work your schedule around the meetings so that you were able to do both, or would someone fill in for you during the meetings while you were in the SPAN room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we’d just have someone sit in the meeting for us, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the astronauts and crew participate in these configuration meetings, control meetings, the boards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we were together as one organization, they were just another one of the groups we were representing. So they would be one of the groups that we would send evaluation sheets out to.\\n\\n Then at some point we reorganized again. Yes, I guess at the time that I went down and joined Thorson, George Abbey was head of flight operations, and Gene Kranz was his deputy, and then at some point we reorganized again, and the astronauts were in with us. So we were representing them at the PRCBs and the CCBs as well as the flight control folks.\\n\\n Then at some point, we reorganized and George took the flight crew and the folks out at Ellington, the airplane people at Ellington, and they became the Flight Crew Operations Directorate [FCOD], and Gene took the flight controllers, the trainers, payloads people, and then that’s who Thorson and I went with. We were the Mission Operations Directorate [MOD]. So at that point then, we were no longer representing astronauts, and they would represent themselves at the meetings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a bit of changing and reorganization had gone on throughout the time frame."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 27.846668013684802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we’d just have someone sit in the meeting for us, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the astronauts and crew participate in these configuration meetings, control meetings, the boards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we were together as one organization, they were just another one of the groups we were representing. So they would be one of the groups that we would send evaluation sheets out to.\\n\\n Then at some point we reorganized again. Yes, I guess at the time that I went down and joined Thorson, George Abbey was head of flight operations, and Gene Kranz was his deputy, and then at some point we reorganized again, and the astronauts were in with us. So we were representing them at the PRCBs and the CCBs as well as the flight control folks.\\n\\n Then at some point, we reorganized and George took the flight crew and the folks out at Ellington, the airplane people at Ellington, and they became the Flight Crew Operations Directorate [FCOD], and Gene took the flight controllers, the trainers, payloads people, and then that’s who Thorson and I went with. We were the Mission Operations Directorate [MOD]. So at that point then, we were no longer representing astronauts, and they would represent themselves at the meetings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a bit of changing and reorganization had gone on throughout the time frame."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were working in this role, actually, you continued to have a lot of involvement with integrations throughout the rest of your career at NASA, but early on was when the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n incident occurred. What did you, in your role with, at this point, the Vehicle Systems Integration Office, what was your involvement in that recovery process after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n ?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.849212031222066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. At some point, Thorson—I think Thorson had left. He had gone. At some point Dick had left and gone over to the Shuttle Program, but that may have been post-\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n . I guess that was post-\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , but before we flew again, was when he went over to do that, he and some of the guys, the Hal [Harold A.] Lodens and those guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, in 1988, the Shuttle did come back online very successfully, and, also in ’88, you moved into—and this may have just been one of the reorganization changes—now under the flight director’s office as Assistant for Program Integration. This is what we found in your—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And that was an effort, and that’s where the job still is today, but that was an effort to try and figure out where best to put that function. We had decided it probably wasn’t big enough to be a total office on its own. So we were looking for a place to put it, and, yes, we thought, “Hey, you know, the flight director office, they interface with all the controllers, they’re very interested in all the changes and stuff that are going on. That seems to be a good place to put this thing,” and so we put it there, you say, ’88?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. And that’s where it still is today. In fact, I was talking to a guy the other day, one of the ex-EGILs [Electrical, General Instrumentation and Life support officer] back on Skylab, Steve [J. S.] McLendon, and he said that he’s doing that job now in the flight director office for Space Station. So it’s still going on. So we must have made a semi-good choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly sounds like it. So this was essentially the same role and same duties, just different—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.721346701357852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And that was an effort, and that’s where the job still is today, but that was an effort to try and figure out where best to put that function. We had decided it probably wasn’t big enough to be a total office on its own. So we were looking for a place to put it, and, yes, we thought, “Hey, you know, the flight director office, they interface with all the controllers, they’re very interested in all the changes and stuff that are going on. That seems to be a good place to put this thing,” and so we put it there, you say, ’88?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. And that’s where it still is today. In fact, I was talking to a guy the other day, one of the ex-EGILs [Electrical, General Instrumentation and Life support officer] back on Skylab, Steve [J. S.] McLendon, and he said that he’s doing that job now in the flight director office for Space Station. So it’s still going on. So we must have made a semi-good choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly sounds like it. So this was essentially the same role and same duties, just different—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I moved to a different office to hold us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At this point, this is in 1988, so there was discussion going on about the Space Station. Were you at all involved in any of those, or was that still a level where it didn’t affect the flight controllers as much?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 33.23623049550352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I moved to a different office to hold us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At this point, this is in 1988, so there was discussion going on about the Space Station. Were you at all involved in any of those, or was that still a level where it didn’t affect the flight controllers as much?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was not involved in any of those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At some point, Kranz’s group, mission operations, actually generated some Space Station offices, but I think that was even after I’d left. So, no, I never had anything to do with Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, eventually, you moved up to NASA Headquarters in the Office of the Deputy Director for Space Shuttle Operations, and there you were in charge of the Space Shuttle Operations Integration Office. How was this different than your role at JSC? Obviously, it’s at the Headquarters level."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.464482093214222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At some point, Kranz’s group, mission operations, actually generated some Space Station offices, but I think that was even after I’d left. So, no, I never had anything to do with Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, eventually, you moved up to NASA Headquarters in the Office of the Deputy Director for Space Shuttle Operations, and there you were in charge of the Space Shuttle Operations Integration Office. How was this different than your role at JSC? Obviously, it’s at the Headquarters level."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a Headquarters badge, but it was still here at JSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, I was sitting in the outpost one afternoon and Cripp came in. He asked me what all I had done and everything. He said, “I think I’ve got something for you.”\\n\\n So the next thing I know, he’s asking me to come over to the program office. The way Shuttle was organized back then, you had a chief for programs and you had a chief for operations, and Cripp was the chief for operations, and he had offices here at JSC, he had offices at Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama], and an office at the Cape. Dick Thorson had been running the office here at JSC for him, and they wanted Dick to go to Space Station. So Dick was going to go over to Space Station, so Cripp asked me to come run the office here for him. It was a lot of the same guys that had worked in Thorson’s old Systems Integrations Office back in ’85 or whenever I joined—Hal Loden and Rip [Ryborn] Kirby and a lot of the same guys.\\n\\n So I said, yes, I’d come do that. So although on paper you were NASA Headquarters employees, the office was still here at JSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were essentially still doing the same type of—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.12830680264323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You remained in this role for a few years. The Shuttle-Mir Program came into play during this time frame. Were you involved with dealing with that aspect of the operations integrations side of things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much from that office. That office was responsible for, among other things, the landing sites worldwide, the Shuttle landing sites, including the abort sites, the TAL [Trans-Atlantic Landing] abort sites. And we were also responsible—I mentioned to you out in the hall last time, one of the funnest jobs I’ve ever had with NASA was, I was in charge of the Shuttle ferry program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was from that office that we did that.\\n\\n But on Shuttle-Mir, I can’t recall, from that office, ever getting really involved in Shuttle-Mir other than just it being another mission.\\n\\n Later on in another reorganization, we got under great pressure to reduce the number of squares on org [organization] charts. Since we had like a six-man office, that was a prime thing, to combine us, put us someplace else. So they put us into an integration office that also handled the payloads. We had the payload integration officers, the PIMs and FIMs, the flight payload integration managers and the flight integration managers. So they put us up there as part of that.\\n\\n In that area, I got involved with Shuttle-Mir, because I was the deputy in that organization, and the FIMs and the PIMs got very involved with the Shuttle-Mir stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Shuttle ferry program."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 36.8092297807147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much from that office. That office was responsible for, among other things, the landing sites worldwide, the Shuttle landing sites, including the abort sites, the TAL [Trans-Atlantic Landing] abort sites. And we were also responsible—I mentioned to you out in the hall last time, one of the funnest jobs I’ve ever had with NASA was, I was in charge of the Shuttle ferry program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was from that office that we did that.\\n\\n But on Shuttle-Mir, I can’t recall, from that office, ever getting really involved in Shuttle-Mir other than just it being another mission.\\n\\n Later on in another reorganization, we got under great pressure to reduce the number of squares on org [organization] charts. Since we had like a six-man office, that was a prime thing, to combine us, put us someplace else. So they put us into an integration office that also handled the payloads. We had the payload integration officers, the PIMs and FIMs, the flight payload integration managers and the flight integration managers. So they put us up there as part of that.\\n\\n In that area, I got involved with Shuttle-Mir, because I was the deputy in that organization, and the FIMs and the PIMs got very involved with the Shuttle-Mir stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Shuttle ferry program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was one of the funnest jobs that you’ve ever had. Why was that so fun? What was your involvement with that project?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.12564346688156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in fact, one of the things that we used to have to do was to go down and report to the—before each Shuttle launch since\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , there’s been a flight readiness review where all the various organizations stand up and say, “Yes, we’re ready to go.” The Orbiter project, the SRB [solid rocket booster] project, the ET [external tank] project, all of them had to stand up and say, “Yes, we’re ready.” The ferry project had to go down and stand up and say, “Yes, we’re ready to support if you need us.”\\n\\n When I first got involved in it, we weren’t landing in Florida. All our landings were out at Edwards [Air Force Base, California]. So we were doing a lot of ferrying back then.\\n\\n So one of the things we would do was before a mission, we would evaluate what our TAL sites were and go over again our route of how we were going to get home. Thank goodness, we never had to bring one back from over there, but you would have had to have done is go down the west coast of Africa and then stop in at Ascension Island down in the mid-Atlantic, and then you’d come into Brazil and then up the coast and up the chain islands, come back to Florida. So that would have been a long, rough trip. And you had to come that way, because you’re limited on the amount of fuel, limited on the total amount of weight you could put on the 747. So you could only put so much fuel on. Didn’t have enough to fly nonstop across the North Atlantic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Orbiter certainly does add quite a bit of its own weight to that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And we would have had to have taken a lot of equipment off, had they ended up over there that we didn’t have to take off out in California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, equipment off the Orbiter itself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s interesting. Would you then be able to transport that back by other means?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 23.472937185423955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And we would have had to have taken a lot of equipment off, had they ended up over there that we didn’t have to take off out in California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, equipment off the Orbiter itself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s interesting. Would you then be able to transport that back by other means?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Hmm, hadn’t thought about that aspect of it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.41437465047106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s interesting. Would you then be able to transport that back by other means?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Hmm, hadn’t thought about that aspect of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I also had another interesting project we got into. Of course, out at Edwards and in Florida, you’d have a way to lift the Orbiter up, and that’s what you do. You lift Orbiter up and roll the 747 underneath it and then put it back down. If you’re over at a TAL site, what are you going to do?\\n\\n There’s an outfit in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, that has cranes that can lift this thing, but then the question is, how are you going to get the crane over there?\\n\\n The Air Force had modified two C-5s, I think. There’s a troop compartment in most C-5s back in the back, and they took those out. Well, these DDMS guys that I talked about earlier, somebody came up with the idea, “We bet we could get those cranes inside a C-5,” one of these modified C-5s.\\n\\n So we brought one of the C-5s into—we did this over in Lafayette, Louisiana—brought it into Lafayette and brought a crane over, and they worked and worked, and sure enough, got it in there. So then we knew. From then on, if we ever had to go do a TAL site, we could get our crane over there by air and not have to put it on a barge and get it over. So that was a big relief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that would certainly add to the time required in getting it back. And it’s good that you don’t have to have that equipment at every site already there."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.57152738941229, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Hmm, hadn’t thought about that aspect of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I also had another interesting project we got into. Of course, out at Edwards and in Florida, you’d have a way to lift the Orbiter up, and that’s what you do. You lift Orbiter up and roll the 747 underneath it and then put it back down. If you’re over at a TAL site, what are you going to do?\\n\\n There’s an outfit in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, that has cranes that can lift this thing, but then the question is, how are you going to get the crane over there?\\n\\n The Air Force had modified two C-5s, I think. There’s a troop compartment in most C-5s back in the back, and they took those out. Well, these DDMS guys that I talked about earlier, somebody came up with the idea, “We bet we could get those cranes inside a C-5,” one of these modified C-5s.\\n\\n So we brought one of the C-5s into—we did this over in Lafayette, Louisiana—brought it into Lafayette and brought a crane over, and they worked and worked, and sure enough, got it in there. So then we knew. From then on, if we ever had to go do a TAL site, we could get our crane over there by air and not have to put it on a barge and get it over. So that was a big relief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that would certainly add to the time required in getting it back. And it’s good that you don’t have to have that equipment at every site already there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And luckily the Shuttle hasn’t had to land in any of those sites."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.968363766013653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I also had another interesting project we got into. Of course, out at Edwards and in Florida, you’d have a way to lift the Orbiter up, and that’s what you do. You lift Orbiter up and roll the 747 underneath it and then put it back down. If you’re over at a TAL site, what are you going to do?\\n\\n There’s an outfit in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, that has cranes that can lift this thing, but then the question is, how are you going to get the crane over there?\\n\\n The Air Force had modified two C-5s, I think. There’s a troop compartment in most C-5s back in the back, and they took those out. Well, these DDMS guys that I talked about earlier, somebody came up with the idea, “We bet we could get those cranes inside a C-5,” one of these modified C-5s.\\n\\n So we brought one of the C-5s into—we did this over in Lafayette, Louisiana—brought it into Lafayette and brought a crane over, and they worked and worked, and sure enough, got it in there. So then we knew. From then on, if we ever had to go do a TAL site, we could get our crane over there by air and not have to put it on a barge and get it over. So that was a big relief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that would certainly add to the time required in getting it back. And it’s good that you don’t have to have that equipment at every site already there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And luckily the Shuttle hasn’t had to land in any of those sites."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Up to date anyway. So everything seems to be going well.\\n\\n Well, you said those were some of your duties in this role dealing with the landing sites, the ferry program. You were still involved with these boards. Were there any other aspects of your job as you were filling this Headquarters role?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.631515295570725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And luckily the Shuttle hasn’t had to land in any of those sites."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Up to date anyway. So everything seems to be going well.\\n\\n Well, you said those were some of your duties in this role dealing with the landing sites, the ferry program. You were still involved with these boards. Were there any other aspects of your job as you were filling this Headquarters role?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and then this last reorganization I mentioned where we went up to the payloads area, by then we reorganized to where the job came back to JSC. It didn’t stay as a Headquarters thing anymore. So I was back at JSC then, back with JSC paperwork, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And is this when you were under Tommy [W.] Holloway? Was this the Customer Flight Integration Office when you were deputy manager?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.810034698999623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, by that time, Tommy, who used to be head of the flight director’s office, Tommy had come over to Shuttle Program, and—oh, what was he doing? He later became head of the thing. Anyway, Tommy had come over to the Shuttle Program, and I was working for Tommy then. Then we reorganized and Richard [M.] Swalin had the payload area, so I was Richard’s deputy, but we still all worked for Tommy, because he was now head of the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Talking about the ferry, one time, probably about the second one I was ever on, really impressed me. We were on the C-141, and I don’t remember what I wanted to do, I wanted to get a cup of coffee or a glass of water or something, and I asked a young airman onboard, I said, “Can I do something?” and I don’t know what it was, but he almost snapped to attention.\\n\\n And he said, “Sir,” said, “you can do anything you want to do.” They have some order, some standing order, and I don’t remember exactly what it’s called, but he said, “In our orders,” said, “there’s the president and there’s vice-president and there’s you.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] Well!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that whole ferry thing commanded a great deal of respect from the military and from all the bases we went to and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s good."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.122260776666245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Talking about the ferry, one time, probably about the second one I was ever on, really impressed me. We were on the C-141, and I don’t remember what I wanted to do, I wanted to get a cup of coffee or a glass of water or something, and I asked a young airman onboard, I said, “Can I do something?” and I don’t know what it was, but he almost snapped to attention.\\n\\n And he said, “Sir,” said, “you can do anything you want to do.” They have some order, some standing order, and I don’t remember exactly what it’s called, but he said, “In our orders,” said, “there’s the president and there’s vice-president and there’s you.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] Well!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that whole ferry thing commanded a great deal of respect from the military and from all the bases we went to and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You know, it had been classified a national resource, and so it was worth—I think\\n\\n Endeavour\\n\\n , I think the price on it was two and a half billion. So it was a valuable piece of equipment we were hauling back and forth across the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it sounds like they were taking their jobs pretty seriously."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 40.89167997119289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You know, it had been classified a national resource, and so it was worth—I think\\n\\n Endeavour\\n\\n , I think the price on it was two and a half billion. So it was a valuable piece of equipment we were hauling back and forth across the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it sounds like they were taking their jobs pretty seriously."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Crippen told me one time, he said, “I’m more worried during ferry flights than I am during missions.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He said, “I’m convinced we’re going to hurt one during a ferry flight.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, now, that’s interesting. Although I guess since it is going through the atmosphere, there is a lot more that can be happening that’s not as easy to control."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 43.212977745769884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Crippen told me one time, he said, “I’m more worried during ferry flights than I am during missions.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He said, “I’m convinced we’re going to hurt one during a ferry flight.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, now, that’s interesting. Although I guess since it is going through the atmosphere, there is a lot more that can be happening that’s not as easy to control."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and, you know, it’s reachable by kooks, if you want to put it that way. I can remember the one time at Barksdale Air Force Base up in Shreveport [Louisiana], the security guy came to me and said, “There’s been reports of some guy out in the woods here shooting at planes.”\\n\\n So they were advising us to take off—I think it was to the north or south, whichever way, so we didn’t go over his house with the thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that certainly is a very big concern.\\n\\n Well, I’d like to take a brief break here if we could and change out our tape."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 48.014419717522095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He said, “I’m convinced we’re going to hurt one during a ferry flight.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, now, that’s interesting. Although I guess since it is going through the atmosphere, there is a lot more that can be happening that’s not as easy to control."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and, you know, it’s reachable by kooks, if you want to put it that way. I can remember the one time at Barksdale Air Force Base up in Shreveport [Louisiana], the security guy came to me and said, “There’s been reports of some guy out in the woods here shooting at planes.”\\n\\n So they were advising us to take off—I think it was to the north or south, whichever way, so we didn’t go over his house with the thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that certainly is a very big concern.\\n\\n Well, I’d like to take a brief break here if we could and change out our tape."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking still about the ferry flights. You just mentioned the story about landing in Louisiana and having to watch out when taking off, being shot at. Were there ever any other particular security concerns that came up during the ferry flights that you can think of that were—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.196984126902702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, of course, also since we learned that we’re not going to be landing the Shuttle down there in the middle of a rainstorm, that we didn’t have to be as concerned with water on the runway. But, no, it’s still very adequate for getting rid of water. I would bet it’s the best runway in the United States for getting rid of water, still.\\n\\n In fact, the Air Force folks down at Edwards, after they saw what we had done in Florida and saw our test results, because we also took the 990 out and did tests on the concrete runway at Edwards and then test on the lake beds also. I know one of the things, right before I retired, the Air Force had come to us and said the Kennedy runway is now so good that they’d like to do the same thing to the Edwards runway. Would we help them out money-wise? And of course we said, “No, the Edwards runway’s just fine as far as we’re concerned. So we don’t have the money to put in to modding your runway.”\\n\\n Yes, it turns out rougher’s a little better than totally smooth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Surprised everybody, even the big, really super smart engineers that we had looking at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are the tires replaced after each mission then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 34.663315696558556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, of course, also since we learned that we’re not going to be landing the Shuttle down there in the middle of a rainstorm, that we didn’t have to be as concerned with water on the runway. But, no, it’s still very adequate for getting rid of water. I would bet it’s the best runway in the United States for getting rid of water, still.\\n\\n In fact, the Air Force folks down at Edwards, after they saw what we had done in Florida and saw our test results, because we also took the 990 out and did tests on the concrete runway at Edwards and then test on the lake beds also. I know one of the things, right before I retired, the Air Force had come to us and said the Kennedy runway is now so good that they’d like to do the same thing to the Edwards runway. Would we help them out money-wise? And of course we said, “No, the Edwards runway’s just fine as far as we’re concerned. So we don’t have the money to put in to modding your runway.”\\n\\n Yes, it turns out rougher’s a little better than totally smooth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Surprised everybody, even the big, really super smart engineers that we had looking at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are the tires replaced after each mission then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Now that you mention it, those tires may be able to be used again, I think, but the main landing-gear tires are replaced after each run, or at least they were when I left. They may have gotten better now, I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably makes sense. While Shuttle tires are probably a bit more complex than normal tires, it’s still a good idea to have a good pair on them. Well, that’s certainly an interesting aspect to the Shuttle Program itself that we haven’t heard a lot about.\\n\\n Are there any other pieces to the ferrying side of things that you’d like to mention that we haven’t touched on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.20426108300343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you said, most people don’t ever get a chance to see it up close and personal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s neat.\\n\\n You mentioned in this example that the bird that hit the Orbiter and there was tile damage. When you would do those kind of repairs in-flight like this—well, on the ground, but during transfer—did that require actually replacing those tiles, or was it a patch-type job until it could get to the final destination?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a patch-type job. They had some kind of epoxy that they would put in and basically, you know, fill in the holes that had been made and then smooth off the edges. So it was a patch-type thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So no more would come off in the airflow as you had mentioned."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.301556892596828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a patch-type job. They had some kind of epoxy that they would put in and basically, you know, fill in the holes that had been made and then smooth off the edges. So it was a patch-type thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So no more would come off in the airflow as you had mentioned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because you weren’t actually doing any damage to the skin by flying without the tiles. It was just you were trying to protect other tiles from air and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, it certainly does sound like it was interesting job."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 18.112840991774252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because you weren’t actually doing any damage to the skin by flying without the tiles. It was just you were trying to protect other tiles from air and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, it certainly does sound like it was interesting job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was a fun job and totally different from the control center and everything else I’d ever done. So it was enjoyable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The interface between NASA and the military—as you said, they were a very big support for this—it sounds like it was a pretty good working relationship there. Is that correct?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.041824404472262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, yes.\\n\\n You had asked earlier about the Shuttle launches. The ones I was able to see after I got over into the program office and doing this ferrying stuff, were ones that—one we just went down there as tourists almost, as I mentioned, as Honeycutt’s guests, but the other ones, I just happened to be down there getting ready to take an Orbiter out on the ferry flight and was down there, you know, at the same time we were launching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, it panned out well for you in two cases then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked out well. I did it a couple three times. I was down there to pick one up at the same time we were launching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, good. Conveniently overlapped them that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you did move in—I think we began talking, and we’re back a little bit, moving over into when the job transferred back as a JSC function, as Customer Flight Integration Office."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.335585684533655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you did move in—I think we began talking, and we’re back a little bit, moving over into when the job transferred back as a JSC function, as Customer Flight Integration Office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had transferred back as a JSC function even before that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I guess we’ve maintained our same name. So, yes, we were back at JSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so these same duties and all still kept going with that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.26176187170406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had transferred back as a JSC function even before that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I guess we’ve maintained our same name. So, yes, we were back at JSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so these same duties and all still kept going with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, okay. Good."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.290846524115622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I guess we’ve maintained our same name. So, yes, we were back at JSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so these same duties and all still kept going with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, okay. Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then they did, yes, somebody did move up into the Customer and Flight Integration Office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. At any point after this, did you begin to get involved with—I believe you’d mentioned earlier that later you became more involved with the Shuttle-Mir Program when it became merged with that payloads?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.545385026795135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, okay. Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then they did, yes, somebody did move up into the Customer and Flight Integration Office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. At any point after this, did you begin to get involved with—I believe you’d mentioned earlier that later you became more involved with the Shuttle-Mir Program when it became merged with that payloads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no. When I got into the cargo and—what’d you say the name of it was?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Customer Flight Integration Office."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.939316696439036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then they did, yes, somebody did move up into the Customer and Flight Integration Office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. At any point after this, did you begin to get involved with—I believe you’d mentioned earlier that later you became more involved with the Shuttle-Mir Program when it became merged with that payloads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no. When I got into the cargo and—what’d you say the name of it was?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Customer Flight Integration Office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Customer and Flight—yes, when I got there, as I mentioned, I was the deputy there under Richard Swalin, and we had one section that had flight integration managers, one section they had the payload integration managers. So, yes, at that point, acting as deputy of that organization, was very much involved in the payload and stuff, and, yes, we were very involved with the Mir stuff, because a lot of the flights by then were going to Mir. So I was probably around for, oh—I was going to guess how many number of flights to Mir, but I guess I won’t guess, because I might be totally wrong. Anyway, all of them that we were flying then—I just can’t remember what percentage of the flights were going to Mir and which ones were still carrying payloads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Did that present its own unique challenges in organizing and integrating the flights that were designated for the Mir as compared to the normal operations for a Shuttle? Were there different aspects to it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.894810283181116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My sense was, yes, it did. So much of that was already established from the time I up there that, and I say “up” because those offices were on the seventh floor and my offices had been on the fifth. But, yes, by the time I got up there, so much of those procedures and how they were working with the Mir, they were called, what, Phase Two Office, I guess, was what they were called. Phase Two was under [Frank L.] Culbertson [Jr.], right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Phase One."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Phase One. I guess we’re in Phase Two now. Yes, Phase One was under Frank. But so many of those procedures were all established and everything by the time I got up, that I wasn’t involved in setting up those procedures, but I know it presented a big challenge to the folks. I say “big challenge.” They handled it all very well. But having another NASA organization, Phase One, and then you had the Shuttle guys that were carrying the—the Shuttle was carrying the stuff up to the Mir, and it seems to me there was lot of who’s-in-charge kind of questions that weren’t as smooth as things had been in the past."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s understandable with kind of a new way of doing things that hadn’t been done before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because all this cargo that you were hauling up to the Mir and bringing back, it wasn’t really a payload in the sense that we’d been used to having payloads. We’d have Hubble Space Telescopes, or we’d have, you know, other deployables or Spacelabs or whatever. Now, although it was still a payload, you were hauling it up in the bay. It wasn’t necessarily a payload, and there was some other NASA people in charge of it. So my sense is, that was not the smoothest of times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How closely did you work with the Russians at this time, or did you work during—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.549789203534573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Phase One. I guess we’re in Phase Two now. Yes, Phase One was under Frank. But so many of those procedures were all established and everything by the time I got up, that I wasn’t involved in setting up those procedures, but I know it presented a big challenge to the folks. I say “big challenge.” They handled it all very well. But having another NASA organization, Phase One, and then you had the Shuttle guys that were carrying the—the Shuttle was carrying the stuff up to the Mir, and it seems to me there was lot of who’s-in-charge kind of questions that weren’t as smooth as things had been in the past."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s understandable with kind of a new way of doing things that hadn’t been done before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because all this cargo that you were hauling up to the Mir and bringing back, it wasn’t really a payload in the sense that we’d been used to having payloads. We’d have Hubble Space Telescopes, or we’d have, you know, other deployables or Spacelabs or whatever. Now, although it was still a payload, you were hauling it up in the bay. It wasn’t necessarily a payload, and there was some other NASA people in charge of it. So my sense is, that was not the smoothest of times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How closely did you work with the Russians at this time, or did you work during—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t work with them at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you at all have any involvement in—as you said, when you came into this role, the details had been ironed out to a pretty good extent for the Shuttle and the Mir operations. Were you at all involved in planning for a space station at that time as they were beginning to gear up for Phase Two?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.38865467059397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because all this cargo that you were hauling up to the Mir and bringing back, it wasn’t really a payload in the sense that we’d been used to having payloads. We’d have Hubble Space Telescopes, or we’d have, you know, other deployables or Spacelabs or whatever. Now, although it was still a payload, you were hauling it up in the bay. It wasn’t necessarily a payload, and there was some other NASA people in charge of it. So my sense is, that was not the smoothest of times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How closely did you work with the Russians at this time, or did you work during—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t work with them at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you at all have any involvement in—as you said, when you came into this role, the details had been ironed out to a pretty good extent for the Shuttle and the Mir operations. Were you at all involved in planning for a space station at that time as they were beginning to gear up for Phase Two?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were starting to gear up, but, no, we weren’t really involved with Station. We were learning a lot of lessons off Mir, I think, that were going to be valuable in Station. And our people, our PIMs and FIMs—I guess I mentioned that—our PIMs and FIMs and us two were involved in getting some of the station elements ready to be carried up on the Shuttle. So, yes, in that way, we were involved with the Station folks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Involved in being able to integrate those into the Shuttle system for the transport?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.5429496339933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t work with them at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you at all have any involvement in—as you said, when you came into this role, the details had been ironed out to a pretty good extent for the Shuttle and the Mir operations. Were you at all involved in planning for a space station at that time as they were beginning to gear up for Phase Two?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were starting to gear up, but, no, we weren’t really involved with Station. We were learning a lot of lessons off Mir, I think, that were going to be valuable in Station. And our people, our PIMs and FIMs—I guess I mentioned that—our PIMs and FIMs and us two were involved in getting some of the station elements ready to be carried up on the Shuttle. So, yes, in that way, we were involved with the Station folks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Involved in being able to integrate those into the Shuttle system for the transport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. Was that much different from any of the other planning that had been going on, or was it kind of similar to some of the Hubble-type sized—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 35.04772181554811, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were starting to gear up, but, no, we weren’t really involved with Station. We were learning a lot of lessons off Mir, I think, that were going to be valuable in Station. And our people, our PIMs and FIMs—I guess I mentioned that—our PIMs and FIMs and us two were involved in getting some of the station elements ready to be carried up on the Shuttle. So, yes, in that way, we were involved with the Station folks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Involved in being able to integrate those into the Shuttle system for the transport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. Was that much different from any of the other planning that had been going on, or was it kind of similar to some of the Hubble-type sized—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was very similar to the Mir stuff, but it wasn’t—here again, because you had another organization that was saying, “What happens to this piece of hardware once you get it on orbit?” And I’m not sure, as we talk here, that we had ever launched even the first piece of hardware for the Station by the time I left. I know we’d done a lot of planning on it, but I’m not sure we’d ever put a piece up there yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. It certainly sounds like there was a lot being learned. You said lessons learned. It sounds like a lot of them were on the organizational and management side of things and making the program work."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.83080201727567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. Was that much different from any of the other planning that had been going on, or was it kind of similar to some of the Hubble-type sized—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was very similar to the Mir stuff, but it wasn’t—here again, because you had another organization that was saying, “What happens to this piece of hardware once you get it on orbit?” And I’m not sure, as we talk here, that we had ever launched even the first piece of hardware for the Station by the time I left. I know we’d done a lot of planning on it, but I’m not sure we’d ever put a piece up there yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. It certainly sounds like there was a lot being learned. You said lessons learned. It sounds like a lot of them were on the organizational and management side of things and making the program work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and especially on Station, and they have worked out the way they do this, but like you’ve launched people on the Shuttle, and you’ve got a flight director and his team of people that are controlling that mission. Now you’ve got a Station up here. Now you’ve got a flight director and a team of people controlling that mission, and when you get the two together, who’s in charge, and when does this team say what to do, and when does that team say what to do? So they had to work all those out, and I wasn’t a party to all of that, but I can imagine there were some hurdles to overcome there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure there were."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 42.03422446363964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was very similar to the Mir stuff, but it wasn’t—here again, because you had another organization that was saying, “What happens to this piece of hardware once you get it on orbit?” And I’m not sure, as we talk here, that we had ever launched even the first piece of hardware for the Station by the time I left. I know we’d done a lot of planning on it, but I’m not sure we’d ever put a piece up there yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. It certainly sounds like there was a lot being learned. You said lessons learned. It sounds like a lot of them were on the organizational and management side of things and making the program work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and especially on Station, and they have worked out the way they do this, but like you’ve launched people on the Shuttle, and you’ve got a flight director and his team of people that are controlling that mission. Now you’ve got a Station up here. Now you’ve got a flight director and a team of people controlling that mission, and when you get the two together, who’s in charge, and when does this team say what to do, and when does that team say what to do? So they had to work all those out, and I wasn’t a party to all of that, but I can imagine there were some hurdles to overcome there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure there were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you did eventually decide that it was time to retire from NASA. Have you just pretty much retired and are taking time to enjoy yourself, or have you been involved with any contracting or any other—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 42.26024940404404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and especially on Station, and they have worked out the way they do this, but like you’ve launched people on the Shuttle, and you’ve got a flight director and his team of people that are controlling that mission. Now you’ve got a Station up here. Now you’ve got a flight director and a team of people controlling that mission, and when you get the two together, who’s in charge, and when does this team say what to do, and when does that team say what to do? So they had to work all those out, and I wasn’t a party to all of that, but I can imagine there were some hurdles to overcome there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure there were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you did eventually decide that it was time to retire from NASA. Have you just pretty much retired and are taking time to enjoy yourself, or have you been involved with any contracting or any other—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven’t yet. Had a few nibbles when I first left, but I wasn’t interested in doing anything right then, and I guess the longer you’re gone, the less the nibbles become. So I haven’t had too many nibbles here lately.\\n\\n A couple of guys had told that me, said, “You ought to draw your line in the sand, say, ‘I’m going at this time,’ then stick with it,” and look forward to it for two or three years, you know, draw your line in the sand two years before you really do it, or three years before you really do it.\\n\\n And that’s what I did. I said, “I’m going to go at sixty,” and I did. I was still having an awful lot of fun. I’m sure I would still be having a lot of fun out there today if I was still out there, but I drew the line in the sand. I said, “Okay, I’m gonna go at sixty.” So that was it. There was nothing dramatic that made me want to retire on such-and-such a date or anything else except a birthday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s a good reason."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 46.955832671160046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you did eventually decide that it was time to retire from NASA. Have you just pretty much retired and are taking time to enjoy yourself, or have you been involved with any contracting or any other—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven’t yet. Had a few nibbles when I first left, but I wasn’t interested in doing anything right then, and I guess the longer you’re gone, the less the nibbles become. So I haven’t had too many nibbles here lately.\\n\\n A couple of guys had told that me, said, “You ought to draw your line in the sand, say, ‘I’m going at this time,’ then stick with it,” and look forward to it for two or three years, you know, draw your line in the sand two years before you really do it, or three years before you really do it.\\n\\n And that’s what I did. I said, “I’m going to go at sixty,” and I did. I was still having an awful lot of fun. I’m sure I would still be having a lot of fun out there today if I was still out there, but I drew the line in the sand. I said, “Okay, I’m gonna go at sixty.” So that was it. There was nothing dramatic that made me want to retire on such-and-such a date or anything else except a birthday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s a good reason."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By then, you’ve earned a right to just kind of do whatever you want to do for a while, play some golf."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 40, "return_to_go": 53.03189218661734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By then, you’ve earned a right to just kind of do whatever you want to do for a while, play some golf."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With retirement in mind, I took up golf again. I never had time to play golf after we got to Houston. I think I played once, and I had learned to play again when I was in Seattle [Washington] at Boeing. The great Northwest up there, it stays light so late in the day during the summer that you could get in your eighteen holes after work, and some of the guys in the office played. So I took it up and played some in Seattle, but after I’d been here to Houston, I played one time, and then it just took up too much time, didn’t have time to do that. So I took it up with the idea that I was going to retire and I’d try it and see if I enjoyed it again, and I did, and it’s good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good, okay, everybody should have a hobby like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career at NASA, we’ve talked about several of the people that you worked with, but is there anybody in particular that you’d like to mention that either had a big impact on your career personally or that you think was very instrumental in the space program as a whole?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.392745324420968, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was different. It’s different than the way things are today anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very different, and, you’re right, it does take that good family support to make it possible to do all of this and know that they’re at home taking care of—the wives are at home taking care of the family and any little details that are coming up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure I missed a lot with the kids, and we weren’t totally isolated. I mean, I was involved in the Little League and stuff like that, but there were a lot of nights that we probably didn’t get home until the little ones were in bed already."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your kids understand what you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You asked that the last time, and I think now that, no, they did not, and I get that just from maybe some of the questions that they ask now. So yes, I think, no, they didn’t. They just knew Daddy had a job and Daddy went to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, they were immersed in their own community with all their friends and stuff."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.769717027134408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure I missed a lot with the kids, and we weren’t totally isolated. I mean, I was involved in the Little League and stuff like that, but there were a lot of nights that we probably didn’t get home until the little ones were in bed already."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your kids understand what you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You asked that the last time, and I think now that, no, they did not, and I get that just from maybe some of the questions that they ask now. So yes, I think, no, they didn’t. They just knew Daddy had a job and Daddy went to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, they were immersed in their own community with all their friends and stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "True, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would have fathers doing the same thing."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.299685585704898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You asked that the last time, and I think now that, no, they did not, and I get that just from maybe some of the questions that they ask now. So yes, I think, no, they didn’t. They just knew Daddy had a job and Daddy went to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, they were immersed in their own community with all their friends and stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "True, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would have fathers doing the same thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they’ll get a chance to listen to all this and find out details about what you were doing. [Loe laughs]\\n\\n Well, looking back over your career at NASA, what would you consider to be your biggest challenge, and then, alternately, your greatest accomplishment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.777428428560997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "True, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would have fathers doing the same thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they’ll get a chance to listen to all this and find out details about what you were doing. [Loe laughs]\\n\\n Well, looking back over your career at NASA, what would you consider to be your biggest challenge, and then, alternately, your greatest accomplishment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a tough one. The biggest challenge was probably, I guess I would say the total Apollo Program experience. You know, we were definitely doing things that nobody had ever done before. See, I guess I would have to say Apollo.\\n\\n And greatest accomplishment—I don’t know, all of it lumped together—nothing really sticks out in my mind that—getting that runway fixed down at KSC was a good thing, but it’s certainly not anything I did single-handedly or anything, but just to be involved in that was a good thing for the program. It saved a lot of time and money. But I don’t know. I can’t think of any one thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly did have a number of important contributions and things that you accomplished while you were working at NASA."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.41936492062333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they’ll get a chance to listen to all this and find out details about what you were doing. [Loe laughs]\\n\\n Well, looking back over your career at NASA, what would you consider to be your biggest challenge, and then, alternately, your greatest accomplishment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a tough one. The biggest challenge was probably, I guess I would say the total Apollo Program experience. You know, we were definitely doing things that nobody had ever done before. See, I guess I would have to say Apollo.\\n\\n And greatest accomplishment—I don’t know, all of it lumped together—nothing really sticks out in my mind that—getting that runway fixed down at KSC was a good thing, but it’s certainly not anything I did single-handedly or anything, but just to be involved in that was a good thing for the program. It saved a lot of time and money. But I don’t know. I can’t think of any one thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly did have a number of important contributions and things that you accomplished while you were working at NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, sometimes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’d like to take this chance to ask Sandra and Kirk if they have any questions if that’s all right."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.24373880069259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a tough one. The biggest challenge was probably, I guess I would say the total Apollo Program experience. You know, we were definitely doing things that nobody had ever done before. See, I guess I would have to say Apollo.\\n\\n And greatest accomplishment—I don’t know, all of it lumped together—nothing really sticks out in my mind that—getting that runway fixed down at KSC was a good thing, but it’s certainly not anything I did single-handedly or anything, but just to be involved in that was a good thing for the program. It saved a lot of time and money. But I don’t know. I can’t think of any one thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly did have a number of important contributions and things that you accomplished while you were working at NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, sometimes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’d like to take this chance to ask Sandra and Kirk if they have any questions if that’s all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sandra? Kirk?\n\nActually, yes, I have a couple of questions, if you don’t mind."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.27082088965843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, sometimes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’d like to take this chance to ask Sandra and Kirk if they have any questions if that’s all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sandra? Kirk?\n\nActually, yes, I have a couple of questions, if you don’t mind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Earlier, you mentioned that you were involved in the landing tests. Can you go into some detail about exactly what kind of processes you went through? You know, you didn’t really explain what you were doing to prepare for the flights of the\\n\\n Enterprise\\n\\n ?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:272", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.69237146871411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Earlier, you mentioned that you were involved in the landing tests. Can you go into some detail about exactly what kind of processes you went through? You know, you didn’t really explain what you were doing to prepare for the flights of the\\n\\n Enterprise\\n\\n ?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, in the Approach and Landing Test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My recollection from a branch chief’s standpoint was that most of the effort involved in getting the mission rules written and getting the procedures written fell to the flight director, and that was Don Puddy. It was almost like times were changing back then. The branch—our responsibility had sort of become making sure that we gave Puddy a good, qualified flight controller, and then Puddy sort of melded the team together that he needed. So we gave him Jack Knight, and Jack was obviously the most qualified EECOM or SMOKHEE that we had. I say obviously, not obviously. Jack was a super guy.\\n\\n But as far as being involved in the, “Here’s gonna be our go, no-go points, and here’s gonna be—you know, I need to make sure everybody’s a go X number of seconds before we actually release them, and here’s what we’re gonna concentrate on getting down and everything,” that more fell to Don and his team that he put together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other is—I don’t know if it would be too technical for me to understand, but you were mentioning the difference between Apollo and Shuttle in releasing heat. Can you explain those two differences, how fuel cells were able to release heat between the Apollo and the Shuttle for somebody who doesn’t really comprehend the technicalities?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:276", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 26.780705516931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My recollection from a branch chief’s standpoint was that most of the effort involved in getting the mission rules written and getting the procedures written fell to the flight director, and that was Don Puddy. It was almost like times were changing back then. The branch—our responsibility had sort of become making sure that we gave Puddy a good, qualified flight controller, and then Puddy sort of melded the team together that he needed. So we gave him Jack Knight, and Jack was obviously the most qualified EECOM or SMOKHEE that we had. I say obviously, not obviously. Jack was a super guy.\\n\\n But as far as being involved in the, “Here’s gonna be our go, no-go points, and here’s gonna be—you know, I need to make sure everybody’s a go X number of seconds before we actually release them, and here’s what we’re gonna concentrate on getting down and everything,” that more fell to Don and his team that he put together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other is—I don’t know if it would be too technical for me to understand, but you were mentioning the difference between Apollo and Shuttle in releasing heat. Can you explain those two differences, how fuel cells were able to release heat between the Apollo and the Shuttle for somebody who doesn’t really comprehend the technicalities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me think. Let me think. You know, it may not have been that big a difference. I guess in both cases, they interfaced with the primary cooling system—the coolant loop. So it may not have been that different now that I think on it. Yes, I may have misspoke there, because now that you ask, I’m not sure I can pinpoint any big differences specifically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’d have to think on that for a while. But both of them, as I recall, both of them interchanged heat with the main cooling system, and we dissipated that heat either through radiators or through water boilers or flash evaporators. So, yes, there may not have been that big a difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That’s all I have. Thank you."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:288", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.483891000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just in case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, in fact, when I went over to Zaragoza, we timed it so that it was right before a mission, so that the NASA guy, Bobby Fleming [phonetic], who was GOM, the ground operations manager, Bobby was going to be the GOM at that site at Zaragoza. So we met him in Madrid and drove over to Zaragoza. And my wife went with me. I paid for her to go over with me. It was a super opportunity for her to see Spain and for me to see Spain.\\n\\n So while we were there, we had gone to Zaragoza to sign the agreement, and then we another site at Moron, which is outside of Sevilla, Spain. So we then drove from Zaragoza to Moron and was there at Moron for launch day to watch their preparation—how they got ready and everything for the launch. It turns out we didn’t launch that one. Something happened—I don’t know what, but we didn’t get it off that day, so we had to come on home.\\n\\n But that was a good experience getting to see those two sites. Now, the two sites in Africa, I never did see—the one at Banjul in the Gambia and the one up in Morocco— Ben Guerur. I never saw either one of those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it certainly sounds like a unique opportunity, though, as you said, to go see Spain."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:296", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3100000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, nylon rope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. And so the Orbiter wouldn’t sustain too much damage by running into those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did hurt a little bit. It probably damaged some tiles, but it was better than going off the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yes, that was developed back sometime after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does operate in conjunction with the parachute as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:298", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did hurt a little bit. It probably damaged some tiles, but it was better than going off the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yes, that was developed back sometime after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does operate in conjunction with the parachute as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, that was before we put the drag chute on. Yes, the drag chute came on later, very much later. But, yes, they were in conjunction with the drag chute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. That’s interesting. I hadn’t been aware of those before."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:300", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yes, that was developed back sometime after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does operate in conjunction with the parachute as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, that was before we put the drag chute on. Yes, the drag chute came on later, very much later. But, yes, they were in conjunction with the drag chute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. That’s interesting. I hadn’t been aware of those before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they’re only at remote sites. We used to have two sites in the Pacific also, one at Hawaii and one at Guam. And we finally convinced ourselves sometime in the Shuttle Program that we didn’t need those. Of course, it cost money to send people over there, every mission, and then it cost money just to maintain the equipment and stuff. So we finally turned down the Pacific sites, and the reason we did it—we convinced ourselves we would always be able to get back. We couldn’t think of any scenario, a reasonable scenario that would make us not be able to get back to KSC or Edwards or White Sands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Interesting. Well, is there anything that you can think of that we haven’t talked about that you’d like to mention for any of your career?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:302", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, that was before we put the drag chute on. Yes, the drag chute came on later, very much later. But, yes, they were in conjunction with the drag chute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. That’s interesting. I hadn’t been aware of those before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they’re only at remote sites. We used to have two sites in the Pacific also, one at Hawaii and one at Guam. And we finally convinced ourselves sometime in the Shuttle Program that we didn’t need those. Of course, it cost money to send people over there, every mission, and then it cost money just to maintain the equipment and stuff. So we finally turned down the Pacific sites, and the reason we did it—we convinced ourselves we would always be able to get back. We couldn’t think of any scenario, a reasonable scenario that would make us not be able to get back to KSC or Edwards or White Sands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Interesting. Well, is there anything that you can think of that we haven’t talked about that you’d like to mention for any of your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll probably think of that tomorrow or the next day or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we could always add that in anyway."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00341:304", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they’re only at remote sites. We used to have two sites in the Pacific also, one at Hawaii and one at Guam. And we finally convinced ourselves sometime in the Shuttle Program that we didn’t need those. Of course, it cost money to send people over there, every mission, and then it cost money just to maintain the equipment and stuff. So we finally turned down the Pacific sites, and the reason we did it—we convinced ourselves we would always be able to get back. We couldn’t think of any scenario, a reasonable scenario that would make us not be able to get back to KSC or Edwards or White Sands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Interesting. Well, is there anything that you can think of that we haven’t talked about that you’d like to mention for any of your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll probably think of that tomorrow or the next day or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we could always add that in anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I can’t think of anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, we appreciate you very much coming and sharing this with us."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00104:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 30.323982426497096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we just had them all lined up and put in various seats, and that's how we worked. I didn't know if we were going to be able to do it or not, but we pulled it off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You managed to work with all those contractors, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the contractors and all the other centers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any contractors that stand out in your mind from working with them, as being either exceptionally good at this or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all were good. Of course, I think that we relied very heavily on North American Aviation, because they at that time were really our lead contractor. So we relied very heavily on North American, and I have to say they probably were the driving force that helped us. But Grumman was good. They all were good. If I had to single out, the best one would be North American."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us more about your interaction with MIT and the work that they did, because sometimes you don't hear as much about the work that they did."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00104:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.0803969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't really know. I think I've covered an awful lot. I'm sure I left a lot of things out. When you start talking about people, there's always a danger you're going to leave somebody out, and I probably have left somebody out. One person I know of very distinctly I left out is Bob [Robert F.] Thompson, who was head of the Shuttle Program, who I worked for. Bob was very key in the program, in getting the lead center going. If you want to talk about a person who really made the lead center work, it was really Bob Thompson. Bob, I think, was really a key n making the lead-center concept work. He and Chris Kraft, who was the Center director, Bob was the program manager, really made the lead center work. Lead center depends on a lot of people, and I think Bob was a key man in making that a success and making my job easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you worked on the command module at Skylab. Were you involved with developing the rescue vehicle, the command module vehicle that was modified so if they needed to do a rescue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was. We implemented the hardware into that, yes. Requirements were established and then I was essentially building it, in that context."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's not much reference to the rescue vehicle that we've come across. Was there a time during one of the missions, maybe the last one, where they looked at possibly needing to launch that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I recall, there was, but I honestly don't remember the details of it. I do think there was a time when they thought they would have to go into—the other point was, I think, the other question was how much power did they have to keep on it to make it useable and that type of thing. Those were the issues. I think at one point in time there was a thought of using it, but it's very vague. I have to be honest, it's very vague in my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started out, you mentioned that these folks from NASA were coming down and you asked, \"Who's NASA?\" Would you ever have imagined where this would all lead to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00104:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain that to us, the reasoning for that, and how did you feel about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Why didn't we, with the Shuttle, go unmanned before we went manned? Well, that's a very interesting question, and it was debated very hot and heavy and long and furious. It was very much like the question was asked about solids versus liquids. There's almost no right answer, because history said we always went unmanned prior to manned.\\n\\n The real issue that swayed us is that if you look at doing a robotic mission, it's much easier to do a robotic mission once you've done it manned. Of course, it was very hard to do. We felt the failures modes were very significant, extremely significant, and we could not do a reliable unmanned mission because the man was too much a significant part of the system. Now, interestingly enough, I think today we could easily do a robotic Shuttle mission. Other people may not agree with me. But mainly because we know what the man has to do. So I think it was fought long and hard, but that was the decision, and it was fairly unanimous at the Johnson Space Center that that was the right decision to do, although there were some critics of it. I think, as Chris Kraft said when he got on the microphone at control center after we landed, he said, \"We're infinitely smarter today.\" And that probably summed it up. We were infinitely smarter today that we did land safe and sound after having done a manned mission first. That's a very, very good question. It's a very hard question to answer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've had an amazing career, and we appreciate you sharing the highlights of that with us. We've enjoyed it a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've enjoyed talking to you. If you want to talk again, if you find something you want to talk about, we can probably get together at the Johnson Space Center or at College Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Thank you."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00196:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.06828073349918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took a job with the ACRV Program Office back in, I guess, it was '92."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "ACRV?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Assured Crew Return Vehicle. At the time they were looking at both putting an ACRV on the Space Station Freedom. They were looking at a couple different options. One was a U.S.-made, another was a European-made, and another was a Soyuz capsule. So what I did was first I worked with the Europeans and then eventually I went over to start working with the Russians. That program ended in December of '93 as the [Space Station] Freedom Program ended, basically. With the Russian experience, I interviewed with Keith who was starting to build his office on the Russian segment, Keith Riley [phonetic]. So he invited me to come on over and try it out. So I started out as basically just one of the integration team in the Russian segment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's your job today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, right now I have what used to be Keith's job. I'm the head all the Russian elements, and basically in charge of making sure that the Russian segment is integrated with the U.S. segment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Can you describe at a necessarily high level for the sixth grader in Peoria what the purpose and the functional requirements are for the control module and for the FGB?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00196:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.790178073156003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Krunichev, of course, has been a major aerospace manufacturer for years. In fact, they built bombers in World War II. The rocket factory they now have is actually built on what used to be the runway for their airplane manufacturing system. So they've been a major part of the Russian Space Program. They've built vehicles much like the FGB before. In fact, if you look at the Mir modules, other than the base block, they look a lot like the FGB. The aft part does.\\n\\n Energia, which, of course, is the integrator for the whole space station, provides a lot of the parts of the FGB, including pumps, valves. All the software integration is done by Energia. So they play a big part in that in that vehicle, as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's NPO Energia, another Russian aerospace contractor. Mark, had the contract between Boeing and Krunichev been let when you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I first came on right at the beginning of '94, and so it had not been. We were still struggling with who was going to pay for the FGB and how that was all going to be worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[unclear]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's exactly where I was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What then was the origin and idea for the Russians to build for us and us to pay the bill?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00196:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.877975636840002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I first came on right at the beginning of '94, and so it had not been. We were still struggling with who was going to pay for the FGB and how that was all going to be worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[unclear]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's exactly where I was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What then was the origin and idea for the Russians to build for us and us to pay the bill?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, to get the full story, I think Doug's the right guy to talk to, but I'll give you what I know. In the end, my understanding is the Russians came back, after our initial discussions, and believed that the FGB was really not required, that we could have started building off the service module, which is kind of what had happened on Mir. I think Doug can explain more why we decided to do that, although in the end I think it was a good decision. RSA [Russian Space Agency] then basically said, \"Well, if you really want to do this thing, then you can pay for it.\"\\n\\n In the end, we agreed that the United States paid for development, design, development, and manufacturing of the FGB. Well, RSA then pays for operations, sustaining, and for launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By Doug that you refer to, you mean Doug Drewry [phonetic], of course. Let me change gears here just a little bit. Now, I'm not specifically talking about the FGB after right now, because we sent money through our prime direct to the manufacturer, a direct line. We basically had no monetary or programmatic problems, which we'll come back in a minute. But could you discuss and sketch the general funding problems which are related to the Russian flight hardware products these days?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00196:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 23.1977507076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's exactly where I was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What then was the origin and idea for the Russians to build for us and us to pay the bill?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, to get the full story, I think Doug's the right guy to talk to, but I'll give you what I know. In the end, my understanding is the Russians came back, after our initial discussions, and believed that the FGB was really not required, that we could have started building off the service module, which is kind of what had happened on Mir. I think Doug can explain more why we decided to do that, although in the end I think it was a good decision. RSA [Russian Space Agency] then basically said, \"Well, if you really want to do this thing, then you can pay for it.\"\\n\\n In the end, we agreed that the United States paid for development, design, development, and manufacturing of the FGB. Well, RSA then pays for operations, sustaining, and for launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By Doug that you refer to, you mean Doug Drewry [phonetic], of course. Let me change gears here just a little bit. Now, I'm not specifically talking about the FGB after right now, because we sent money through our prime direct to the manufacturer, a direct line. We basically had no monetary or programmatic problems, which we'll come back in a minute. But could you discuss and sketch the general funding problems which are related to the Russian flight hardware products these days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean, basically the service module and other—okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Trace the [unclear]."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00646:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.762947719251436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As much as they get satisfied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As much as they’re ever satisfied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The truth is every congressional delegation wants all the money sent to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, and that’s why they’re elected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re like, “Wait a minute. No, that’s not going to happen.” We had an interesting debate—well, not debate. It took us two or three years to finally just get the Alabama congressional delegation to realize that all of the money under SLS cannot just go to the launch vehicle and the Marshall Space Flight Center. Some of it had to go to Kennedy Space Center to be able to be ready to launch a rocket. What good is it to build a rocket if you’re not going to have a place to launch it? I’m not kidding. The discussion was at that level with some people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You are talking to elected officials and not engineers. I’m sure that has something to do with it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00646:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.95883079916826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The truth is every congressional delegation wants all the money sent to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, and that’s why they’re elected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re like, “Wait a minute. No, that’s not going to happen.” We had an interesting debate—well, not debate. It took us two or three years to finally just get the Alabama congressional delegation to realize that all of the money under SLS cannot just go to the launch vehicle and the Marshall Space Flight Center. Some of it had to go to Kennedy Space Center to be able to be ready to launch a rocket. What good is it to build a rocket if you’re not going to have a place to launch it? I’m not kidding. The discussion was at that level with some people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You are talking to elected officials and not engineers. I’m sure that has something to do with it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They certainly come at it from a different perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I can imagine. Probably quite an education."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00646:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.17647866574251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re like, “Wait a minute. No, that’s not going to happen.” We had an interesting debate—well, not debate. It took us two or three years to finally just get the Alabama congressional delegation to realize that all of the money under SLS cannot just go to the launch vehicle and the Marshall Space Flight Center. Some of it had to go to Kennedy Space Center to be able to be ready to launch a rocket. What good is it to build a rocket if you’re not going to have a place to launch it? I’m not kidding. The discussion was at that level with some people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You are talking to elected officials and not engineers. I’m sure that has something to do with it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They certainly come at it from a different perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I can imagine. Probably quite an education."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trust me. My last five years, Sandra, at Headquarters was quite an education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It usually is, going to Headquarters after working at a Center, I think."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00646:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.529420739713903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They certainly come at it from a different perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I can imagine. Probably quite an education."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trust me. My last five years, Sandra, at Headquarters was quite an education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It usually is, going to Headquarters after working at a Center, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What was interesting is this was actually my second or third trip through Headquarters. You got inklings of it before, but boy, not like this last time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that they didn’t necessarily understand that you had to change things at KSC. Can you talk about some of that ground support and those changes? I know we hear a lot about the SLS and a lot about the Orion, but what was going on at KSC and the changes that had to be made? I know the launch pad was changed and some other things. Of course I think they had to refigure buildings for the stack. Can you talk about some of that for a few minutes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00646:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nor is it likely to. If it does, we got some interesting other problems to deal with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More than spaceflight, that’s for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know Kirasich could give you a long list of the new technology that’s in Orion and the SLS guys could give you a long list of the new technology in there. I think those teams are done a disservice when the simplistic view of well, if it looks the same there’s no new technology.\\n\\n It looks the same because the physics are the same. The new technology is inside. That simplistic view that I hear out in the press and other places every now and then bothers me. You probably could pick up on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I think so. Yes, they can’t see what’s inside the cockpit or the digital changes and everything that’s happened like you said."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What they don’t understand, friction stir welding for example, we started using it on External Tank. We refined it for SLS. SLS is actually using the largest friction stir welding machine in the world. That technology is starting to make its way into the shipbuilding, aircraft manufacturing, other places, because they see that it’s successful. NASA has figured out how to use it and has worked out a lot of the technical kinks. Now it starts to show up in other industries, which you don’t hear a lot about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They’re not the things that people want to read about. They’re not all that exciting to the normal person.\\n\\n [Interview scheduled time ended and second interview was scheduled.]\\n\\n All right. I appreciate it. I will talk to you then."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 50.1343873630617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Phase One, my involvement actually started as far back as the Space Station redesign team, and Phase One was an outgrowth of really of the redesign effort. One of the things we were looking for at this particular point—this is now 1993. I was not part of NASA, although I was part of the redesign team. What we were looking for was what was an interim step to the International Space Station from where we were to now in the pure Space Shuttle Program. We actually started out, what can be the Gemini to Apollo, Mercury to Apollo, that we had to do that within the Space Station Program. What came up very rapidly, since we were now partnering with the Russians, is can we use the Mir Space Station to learn better how to live and operate in space, using the Space Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you actually become involved with NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I became an official card-carrying NASA civil servant on December 28 or 1993, and was actually formally appointed to the associate deputy administrator job. I believe it was announced sometime in early January of '94."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your roles and responsibilities when you first started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My real role as the associate deputy administrator was to function more as a chief of staff, chief operating officer, and really to work with the day-to-day activities across all of the enterprises of NASA and in all of the functional areas. However, human space flight comprises such a large portion of NASA on a proportional basis, my daily activities, a lot of it evolved around Station, Shuttle, and Phase One."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your efforts on the Redesign Committee help you in this new position?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 54.59376373673522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I became an official card-carrying NASA civil servant on December 28 or 1993, and was actually formally appointed to the associate deputy administrator job. I believe it was announced sometime in early January of '94."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your roles and responsibilities when you first started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My real role as the associate deputy administrator was to function more as a chief of staff, chief operating officer, and really to work with the day-to-day activities across all of the enterprises of NASA and in all of the functional areas. However, human space flight comprises such a large portion of NASA on a proportional basis, my daily activities, a lot of it evolved around Station, Shuttle, and Phase One."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your efforts on the Redesign Committee help you in this new position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit, mainly because the redesign, I had a little better base in where we were really going on Space Station. I had not been involved in Freedom at any point, and so at least I had some idea of the basic design on Space Station, where it was going, how the Russians had become involved, etc."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the goals of Phase One when you became involved with the program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 52.881959707483574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My real role as the associate deputy administrator was to function more as a chief of staff, chief operating officer, and really to work with the day-to-day activities across all of the enterprises of NASA and in all of the functional areas. However, human space flight comprises such a large portion of NASA on a proportional basis, my daily activities, a lot of it evolved around Station, Shuttle, and Phase One."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your efforts on the Redesign Committee help you in this new position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit, mainly because the redesign, I had a little better base in where we were really going on Space Station. I had not been involved in Freedom at any point, and so at least I had some idea of the basic design on Space Station, where it was going, how the Russians had become involved, etc."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the goals of Phase One when you became involved with the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fundamentally how to operate for long-duration space flight. You know the Shuttle, as a general rule, goes up something like seven to fourteen days. Our entire time, I think, on Skylab had been, what, eighty-nine days, something like that, and we knew that we couldn't operate minute to minute as we do on Shuttle. So how are we going to modify our operating procedures? How are we going to train for long-duration space flight? What can we learn by a continuous human presence, American human presence up there? Those were the primary objectives.\\n\\n There were a number of scientific objectives, mostly medical, with regards to humans, but there were some other science conducted, but those were absolutely secondary. I think, in retrospect, the media lost sight of that, but countless occasions, as Dan Goldin would say and we would all say, the science is purely secondary. We are really interested and here to learn how to live and work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give us some of the episodes and the events that led to the reality from the idea and how it moved in to working to becoming something successful for NASA?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 28.332401353082606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was definitely not involved in the day-to-day activities. I was actually physically [located] and functioned as a part of the Office of the Administrator. There were three individuals up there: the Administrator, Dan Goldin; Acting Deputy Adminstrator, Jack Dailey,and myself. I became the primary interface between the Office of Space Flight, for a number of reasons, the simplest of which, I had more background in that particular area than either Daley or Dan Goldin. So, consequently, I was just the easiest conduit. So I normally got the first call of anything that was going on, and then in some cases I would say, \"That's fine. Proceed,\" in some cases I'd say, \"We need to bring the administrator in. We need to prepare a brief. We need to do this, we need to do that.\" But I was not involved at all in the day-to-day activities. It was all done either at Headquarters early on or ultimately ended up—well, in fact, Phase One, almost from day one, was managed entirely out of Johnson [Space Center]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did some of those first calls include the fire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the collision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The fire and the collision. My favorite call was the 2 a.m. on the East Coast time that I received that they had abandoned the Space Station, which it turns out was not in regard to either the fire or the depressurization; it was the computer had shut down and they'd actually gone in the Soyuz just to maintain attitude control. It was fundamentally a nonevent, but the report that I had received, the initial report, that they had abandoned the Space Station and were returning to Earth in the Soyuz capsule, which, like I said, turned out to be erroneous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your duties take you to Russia?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.14711261453623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the collision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The fire and the collision. My favorite call was the 2 a.m. on the East Coast time that I received that they had abandoned the Space Station, which it turns out was not in regard to either the fire or the depressurization; it was the computer had shut down and they'd actually gone in the Soyuz just to maintain attitude control. It was fundamentally a nonevent, but the report that I had received, the initial report, that they had abandoned the Space Station and were returning to Earth in the Soyuz capsule, which, like I said, turned out to be erroneous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your duties take you to Russia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. I made one of the very early trips in March of 1994, originally planned as a strap-hanger, but the administrator was involved in a bicycle accident, so I went from the strap-hanger role to leading the delegation role, and we conducted meetings with RSA [Russian Space Agency] over a period of about three days, which included Yuri Koptev, Alex Krasnov, and Valery Ryumin were the three principals that we dealt with. We signed the protocol. Most of it dealt with Station. There was about one day, most of one day was Phase One. Myself, George Abbey, Arnold Nicogosian, and Will Trafton were on that trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this your first time to Russia?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.16345846059581, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The fire and the collision. My favorite call was the 2 a.m. on the East Coast time that I received that they had abandoned the Space Station, which it turns out was not in regard to either the fire or the depressurization; it was the computer had shut down and they'd actually gone in the Soyuz just to maintain attitude control. It was fundamentally a nonevent, but the report that I had received, the initial report, that they had abandoned the Space Station and were returning to Earth in the Soyuz capsule, which, like I said, turned out to be erroneous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your duties take you to Russia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. I made one of the very early trips in March of 1994, originally planned as a strap-hanger, but the administrator was involved in a bicycle accident, so I went from the strap-hanger role to leading the delegation role, and we conducted meetings with RSA [Russian Space Agency] over a period of about three days, which included Yuri Koptev, Alex Krasnov, and Valery Ryumin were the three principals that we dealt with. We signed the protocol. Most of it dealt with Station. There was about one day, most of one day was Phase One. Myself, George Abbey, Arnold Nicogosian, and Will Trafton were on that trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this your first time to Russia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First time to Russia, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever return after that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.403842733995344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. I made one of the very early trips in March of 1994, originally planned as a strap-hanger, but the administrator was involved in a bicycle accident, so I went from the strap-hanger role to leading the delegation role, and we conducted meetings with RSA [Russian Space Agency] over a period of about three days, which included Yuri Koptev, Alex Krasnov, and Valery Ryumin were the three principals that we dealt with. We signed the protocol. Most of it dealt with Station. There was about one day, most of one day was Phase One. Myself, George Abbey, Arnold Nicogosian, and Will Trafton were on that trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this your first time to Russia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First time to Russia, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever return after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, have not been back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you give us a little more detail about that meeting and how it went, since that was your first encounter with the Russians?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.21462065925351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, have not been back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you give us a little more detail about that meeting and how it went, since that was your first encounter with the Russians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was not my first encounter with the Russians. First meeting in Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were some interesting points. If I remember right, we actually flew in and arrived on a Sunday, and the meeting was supposed to start Monday morning. We were scheduled for nine o'clock, and they kept us waiting till about nine-thirty, and I made a very loud announcement, if they didn't meet with us in fifteen minutes, we were leaving, much to the people being appalled all around me. Then lo and behold, fifteen minutes later, the doors magically opened and we were ushering into Yuri's office.\\n\\n The meetings were very cordial and very professional. I don't think there's any doubt that—I was impressed with their knowledge in the space flight business, that they wanted to be partners in the Space Station. I think there were a few pride issues that we saw, not from Yuri. I think Valeriy Ryumin was one. I think he had some concerns. I felt like he felt it should have been the Russian Space Station, of which we were a partner, or they should have had the lead, if you will. But the meetings were very professional, very cordial, very informative. Like I said, their protocols were signed.\\n\\n I was a little surprised at the conditions in Russia. This is in '94, and I haven't been back, so I had expected a little more U.S.-like. Maybe it was the time of the year, because March was sort of dingy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A short trip."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.5718007325039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was not my first encounter with the Russians. First meeting in Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were some interesting points. If I remember right, we actually flew in and arrived on a Sunday, and the meeting was supposed to start Monday morning. We were scheduled for nine o'clock, and they kept us waiting till about nine-thirty, and I made a very loud announcement, if they didn't meet with us in fifteen minutes, we were leaving, much to the people being appalled all around me. Then lo and behold, fifteen minutes later, the doors magically opened and we were ushering into Yuri's office.\\n\\n The meetings were very cordial and very professional. I don't think there's any doubt that—I was impressed with their knowledge in the space flight business, that they wanted to be partners in the Space Station. I think there were a few pride issues that we saw, not from Yuri. I think Valeriy Ryumin was one. I think he had some concerns. I felt like he felt it should have been the Russian Space Station, of which we were a partner, or they should have had the lead, if you will. But the meetings were very professional, very cordial, very informative. Like I said, their protocols were signed.\\n\\n I was a little surprised at the conditions in Russia. This is in '94, and I haven't been back, so I had expected a little more U.S.-like. Maybe it was the time of the year, because March was sort of dingy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A short trip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Short trip. I was glad to return to the good old USA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You started your career with NASA at a time when the administration had just changed. Do you feel like the effects of working with one President, moving in to a new President, affected the Shuttle-Mir Program in any way, or do you feel support was there from the—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.64419843519, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Short trip. I was glad to return to the good old USA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You started your career with NASA at a time when the administration had just changed. Do you feel like the effects of working with one President, moving in to a new President, affected the Shuttle-Mir Program in any way, or do you feel support was there from the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Let's see. I think the administration would have killed and canceled the Space Station if given the opportunity, and I think that was the reason of the redesign team. You'd have to ask some of the people who were actually in those meetings, but I think the real purpose of the whole redesign was to try to give the administration \"an affordable Space Station.\" In the administration's defense, I think that Freedom, as it was even planned then, was not buildable, but that's certainly one person's opinion.\\n\\n I don't think the administration was enthusiastically supporting the Station. I don't think they enthusiastically supported the Phase One. I think they viewed it more as a foreign policy initiative than a scientific and technical exploration initiative. They supported us publicly, but I think the record will show—I think the record does show—a very lack of support in financial resources."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent four years with the program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four years and six months, if I were counting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And give us your thoughts on what you believe the benefits the Shuttle-Mir provided for the space program and for the United States."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.8370310000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we tried to present them with the facts. I think within the administration, the administration did not want us to fly Dave Wolf. In fact, I don't think there's any question about that in our meetings at the White House. However, I don't think they were prepared to overrule \"NASA,\" which would have been doubting the administration and ultimately the President overruling the head of an agency, which is a pretty slippery slope to be on. But there's no question about it, they were not the least bit interested in flying Dave Wolf, and wished that we would have canceled the activity.\\n\\n I sat there in the meeting and we left with—at least I believe the decision made that we, NASA—the NASA administrator said, \"I have decided to fly Dave Wolf.\" Obviously the President could have overruled him and we would have certainly lived by that, but I don't think they had any intention of \"overruling\" us, but there was no doubt they would have been very delighted with the administrator at that time if we had not flown Dave. Now, since everything worked out, I think they now can embrace it, but I sat there in the meeting and they didn't want that to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of the administrator, Dan Goldin was still relatively new in his job when you moved in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's true. He was appointed, took the job on 1 April of '92, and so he'd been there right at two years, two and a half years, when I joined the agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were able to help him? How were you able to help him learn more about the Space Station / Mir Projects? Did you have specific duties assigned by him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had about 150 duties assigned by Dan on a daily basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Added to the ones you had the day before? [Laughter]"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.48559, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's true. He was appointed, took the job on 1 April of '92, and so he'd been there right at two years, two and a half years, when I joined the agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were able to help him? How were you able to help him learn more about the Space Station / Mir Projects? Did you have specific duties assigned by him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had about 150 duties assigned by Dan on a daily basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Added to the ones you had the day before? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Added to the ones I had before. He would have specific things that he might want to know more something about, but there are not any that I immediately recall, \"Hey, I want you to go off and [unclear] this out on the Mir.\" Normally, \"Get these folks together, get agreement, get a consensus. Let's make a decision and move on. Come to me. Make a recommendation,\" that kind of thing.\\n\\n I think Dan was committed to it from day one. He saw the utility and the value of it. He was under a lot of pressure, but I don't think Dan ever wavered. I think he believed in his heart it was the right thing to do. Clearly he had some anxious moments because it was going to come to rest probably on his shoulders as much as anybody, but I think Dan was very committed, and to this day, especially in hindsight, I think he feels very justified at everything that he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent four years, six months, and a few days in this job. Do you have any regrets of moving into it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think that was ever an issue, never consciously. There was a humorous meeting in Russia when I was across the table with Valeriy Ryumin and he was, shall we say, being a little loud and obnoxious. I turned to the interpreter who was sitting next to me, and in a stage whisper, in my finest English, Southern English, said, \"Valeriy looked much better when he had a gun sight on his forehead.\" Of course, most of the Russians speak very good English, so I'm sure that they all heard me, which was my intent, and the meeting became a lot more cordial at that point than previously.\\n\\n No, again, I think the Russians always dealt with [us] professionally. If they had a hidden agenda, maybe I was too naive to see it. The engineers were superb. They built great hardware. They've got great experience. There are differences of opinion, but, heck, we can find differences of opinion anywhere. So, no, I don't think that was ever really an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although you left, have you been able to keep up with the Station, the impacts of Shuttle-Mir as it's affecting the ISS and moving into its next era?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To some extent. I'm with the Boeing Company now, and I do a lot of work with the Station, so I follow it, but very similar to the capacity that I followed with NASA. I'm more on the periphery and the fringes than actually down there in the weeds of the day-to-day-type operations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we close, I was going to ask Paul or Summer if they had a question for you.\n\nWho took your place at Headquarters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The honest answer is, they replaced me with five people. They had now assigned the job to five people and they told me the other day that there are now seven that are doing the duties that I was assigned. I don't know whether that is a compliment or a criticism. But the office is still there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where do you see us going now?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To some extent. I'm with the Boeing Company now, and I do a lot of work with the Station, so I follow it, but very similar to the capacity that I followed with NASA. I'm more on the periphery and the fringes than actually down there in the weeds of the day-to-day-type operations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we close, I was going to ask Paul or Summer if they had a question for you.\n\nWho took your place at Headquarters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The honest answer is, they replaced me with five people. They had now assigned the job to five people and they told me the other day that there are now seven that are doing the duties that I was assigned. I don't know whether that is a compliment or a criticism. But the office is still there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where do you see us going now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully back to the moon and on to Mars. We need to get back in the exploration game. We need to quit messing around in low Earth orbit, and we need to start today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And with all your dealings on Capitol Hill, do you feel that the Shuttle-Mir Phase One Program and early days of ISS have shown Congress that there is a path that's further than what we've gone?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The honest answer is, they replaced me with five people. They had now assigned the job to five people and they told me the other day that there are now seven that are doing the duties that I was assigned. I don't know whether that is a compliment or a criticism. But the office is still there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where do you see us going now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully back to the moon and on to Mars. We need to get back in the exploration game. We need to quit messing around in low Earth orbit, and we need to start today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And with all your dealings on Capitol Hill, do you feel that the Shuttle-Mir Phase One Program and early days of ISS have shown Congress that there is a path that's further than what we've gone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure about that. I think with Phase One we've shown that we can work with international partners. If you look at the Space Station that's on orbit right now, you have two pieces of flight hardware that were never within 10,000 miles of each other, flown in space, rendezvoused, docked, and the light switch was turned on and everything worked. That is an incredible engineering achievement. Not ever have we done that before in the space program. Every other thing in the space program had always been end-to-end tested on the ground. So that's a remarkable engineering feat.\\n\\n I think what we have shown is we have the ability to go back to the moon and on to Mars as soon as we get the commitment to go do that, and hopefully that commitment will come soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything you would like to add regarding your contributions to this program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00810:60", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully back to the moon and on to Mars. We need to get back in the exploration game. We need to quit messing around in low Earth orbit, and we need to start today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And with all your dealings on Capitol Hill, do you feel that the Shuttle-Mir Phase One Program and early days of ISS have shown Congress that there is a path that's further than what we've gone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure about that. I think with Phase One we've shown that we can work with international partners. If you look at the Space Station that's on orbit right now, you have two pieces of flight hardware that were never within 10,000 miles of each other, flown in space, rendezvoused, docked, and the light switch was turned on and everything worked. That is an incredible engineering achievement. Not ever have we done that before in the space program. Every other thing in the space program had always been end-to-end tested on the ground. So that's a remarkable engineering feat.\\n\\n I think what we have shown is we have the ability to go back to the moon and on to Mars as soon as we get the commitment to go do that, and hopefully that commitment will come soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything you would like to add regarding your contributions to this program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was just, like I said, proud to be a part of it. It was a fun time to be with NASA and a fun time to operate with a bunch of great people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you. We appreciate it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00616:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 94.65282656569671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Glad to be here. Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to start out today by asking you about some awards and commendations that I saw on your biographical datasheet, which you so kindly provided us. You were the nominee for the Texas Society of Professional Engineers Junior Engineer of the Year Award. Can you tell us about that award and who nominated you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Joe [Joseph N.] Kotanchik, the Division Chief of the Structures and Mechanics Division. Joe nominated me, and I didn't win it, but I was the nominee from MSC [Manned Spacecraft Center] from NASA, Houston. And that was about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you nominated based on the work that you had done for the Vibration and Acoustic Test Facility [VATF], or what was the nomination based upon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was based upon when I was trying to figure out how to make those simulations I was talking about last time. We were working with Ken [Kenneth McK.] Eldred and so forth at Wyle and trying to come up with a unique way to do this. Nobody had done it and I think it was probably for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also saw that you received a group award for the Lunar Module Test Article-3. Can you tell us about that award and the test as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00616:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 118.9700529487319, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes I think we came pretty close to that. What you do is if you're way far off, you're going to get it close, because you'll make some modifications. You'll either carve some weight out somewhere, lighten it, drill some holes in low-stress locations and so forth, or you'll beef it up and strengthen it and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the test require you at all to go to Grumman up in New York?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I did not go to Grumman on that. We had Grumman folks down. Came down from Bethpage [New York]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned there were a few things you hadn't mentioned last time. Are there some things that you wanted to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to be sure that I mentioned on the acoustic part. I had forgotten Omega D Squared. That's Wade D. Dorland. I called him Omega D Squared. When I was working with Ken Eldred at Wyle, we were fishing around for acoustic experts around the country. Ken said, “Hey, you got one right there at NASA. He's up at Marshall [Space Flight Center] at Huntsville working on the Saturn.”\\n\\n So I went up and paid Wade Dorland a visit. Boy he was good. He was a good person in structural dynamics with acoustics. Acoustician. So I tried to talk him into coming down to Houston. He didn't want to leave Huntsville. I think he was from Nebraska or Kansas, and he liked it up there. He didn't want to go to the subtropics down there in Houston. The British embassy was on subtropical duty pay when we arrived in Houston. I don't know if you knew that or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can see why. All those mosquitoes."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00616:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 55.33782768216077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did he tell you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He'd tell me how to sit, how to patiently take the question and try to work with it as best you can. Be patient. If you keep repeating the same question, why, then just how to move on to something else. Little suave things to do. Doug was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only member there who was describing what was going on or were there other people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually I was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to bear the brunt of it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00616:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 61.486475202400854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He'd tell me how to sit, how to patiently take the question and try to work with it as best you can. Be patient. If you keep repeating the same question, why, then just how to move on to something else. Little suave things to do. Doug was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only member there who was describing what was going on or were there other people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually I was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to bear the brunt of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How frequent[ly] did you have these press conferences?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00616:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 64.98497244711206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually I was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to bear the brunt of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How frequent[ly] did you have these press conferences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can't recall. Maybe weekly. Of course during the course of the test we probably had -- when we actually put the crew in the chamber for example in 2TV-1, put them in the vehicle, I can't recall, but we probably had a press conference every day there for that seven, eight days. We probably had them weekly maybe leading up to it and monthly even before that. After it was over and everything was okay, why, then we didn't have them anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the media ever come out and shoot footage while the test was going on itself?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00616:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 72.20552494123562, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How frequent[ly] did you have these press conferences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can't recall. Maybe weekly. Of course during the course of the test we probably had -- when we actually put the crew in the chamber for example in 2TV-1, put them in the vehicle, I can't recall, but we probably had a press conference every day there for that seven, eight days. We probably had them weekly maybe leading up to it and monthly even before that. After it was over and everything was okay, why, then we didn't have them anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the media ever come out and shoot footage while the test was going on itself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think they did. Yes, they were around, and shooting motion as well as still photos. Trying to do a little bit of interviewing. But that was difficult because everybody was working hard. I think they were allowed in there as I recall. I'm a little fuzzy on that, though. Don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you carry over these press conferences when you started working on LM-2?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00616:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 51.69482945680876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, again how to orchestrate a sizable group of manpower and resources. A typical project engineering function, management function with all the different systems, subsystems, components, all the different people, subsystem managers. And the tests, all the different test crews, all the different instrumentation crews, so on and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned last time when you were working on the 2TV-1 test that it took a while to get to the testing stage. Was it the same case for the LM-2 test?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, yes. Yes, same idea. You create test plans of exactly what you're going to do, and you follow those very precisely. Complete with, in both cases, test readiness reviews, just like you'd have a flight readiness review, where you have a review board that reviews everything. It's set up with the management and the Program Office. And that everything's good to go and we're ready. All carefully controlled, everything is precisely written down and controlled. Nothing just off the cuff. It's all done in a very measured meticulous fashion, very rigorous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the lunar landing then dependent upon the success of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. LM-2, like 2TV-1 was a direct constraint on Apollo 8, LM-2 was a direct constraint on Apollo 11. If we did not complete the LM-2 all-ups, systems drop test successfully, we could not go to the Moon with Apollo 11. Or could not do a landing. Now we went to the Moon in Apollo 10, where we did a circumlunar and we went around, but did not land. We couldn't land, which is what we did on 11, without successfully finishing LM-2. So yes it was a direct constraint on Apollo 11."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did I see correctly from your notes that you watched the Apollo 11 launch? Is that correct?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00616:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 57.438699396454176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, yes. Yes, same idea. You create test plans of exactly what you're going to do, and you follow those very precisely. Complete with, in both cases, test readiness reviews, just like you'd have a flight readiness review, where you have a review board that reviews everything. It's set up with the management and the Program Office. And that everything's good to go and we're ready. All carefully controlled, everything is precisely written down and controlled. Nothing just off the cuff. It's all done in a very measured meticulous fashion, very rigorous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the lunar landing then dependent upon the success of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. LM-2, like 2TV-1 was a direct constraint on Apollo 8, LM-2 was a direct constraint on Apollo 11. If we did not complete the LM-2 all-ups, systems drop test successfully, we could not go to the Moon with Apollo 11. Or could not do a landing. Now we went to the Moon in Apollo 10, where we did a circumlunar and we went around, but did not land. We couldn't land, which is what we did on 11, without successfully finishing LM-2. So yes it was a direct constraint on Apollo 11."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did I see correctly from your notes that you watched the Apollo 11 launch? Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to take a break for a second?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00616:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 54.84483980560002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. And it was wonderful. We made our way back of course so we could see the landing on the lunar surface, but oh yes, this really felt like all the hard work and the effort and all the round the clock sort of thing was well worth it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you when they finally did land on the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at home in the middle of the night watching it on TV. I wasn't even in the control center, no. Black-and-white TV. Yes that's where I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you seen other Saturn launches? You mentioned that that was the first --"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't believe I had. I had seen a lot of Titan launches and Atlas launches and Delta launches and so forth on different occasions. But no, that was the first Saturn launch. I didn't see an earlier Saturn with the S-I, II, whatever it was. No. But I saw the big one. Saturn V."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty impressive. What a great story to have taken all your friends."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00616:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 59.827599784000014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at home in the middle of the night watching it on TV. I wasn't even in the control center, no. Black-and-white TV. Yes that's where I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you seen other Saturn launches? You mentioned that that was the first --"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't believe I had. I had seen a lot of Titan launches and Atlas launches and Delta launches and so forth on different occasions. But no, that was the first Saturn launch. I didn't see an earlier Saturn with the S-I, II, whatever it was. No. But I saw the big one. Saturn V."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty impressive. What a great story to have taken all your friends."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And by the way we went back -- and later on the guy that we left there to talk to the FAA and get the plane fixed and fly it back, why, he finally got back, we managed to grab commercials and get back in time to see the landing. Of course in those days, we [were] a lot younger and we had a lot of vim and vigor and vitality. So, moved pretty quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your recollections of Apollo 13?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00616:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 65.36399976000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't believe I had. I had seen a lot of Titan launches and Atlas launches and Delta launches and so forth on different occasions. But no, that was the first Saturn launch. I didn't see an earlier Saturn with the S-I, II, whatever it was. No. But I saw the big one. Saturn V."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty impressive. What a great story to have taken all your friends."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And by the way we went back -- and later on the guy that we left there to talk to the FAA and get the plane fixed and fly it back, why, he finally got back, we managed to grab commercials and get back in time to see the landing. Of course in those days, we [were] a lot younger and we had a lot of vim and vigor and vitality. So, moved pretty quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your recollections of Apollo 13?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By that time I was not on Apollo anymore. I was off on Space Station, Space Base studies. So I was not directly involved. But it was a harrowing experience, but I was not directly involved. So I was more on the periphery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well let's talk about your Space Station, Space Base studies that you were working on. How did you get involved in those studies initially?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00616:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 80.69629600000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By that time I was not on Apollo anymore. I was off on Space Station, Space Base studies. So I was not directly involved. But it was a harrowing experience, but I was not directly involved. So I was more on the periphery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well let's talk about your Space Station, Space Base studies that you were working on. How did you get involved in those studies initially?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can I mention a few things about some of the LM-2 people? Or is this appropriate?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of the folks where I forgot them before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely please do so."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00784:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 49.356393871161295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it's best to ask Bill, I think, in that particular case. Bill actually had been selected as a flight director, but he was doing a stint in Moscow as an Ops Lead at the time. He returned and set up shop in an office here in the flight director office, only for a very brief period of time, and was immediately swept away to another assignment over in the Shuttle Program office. So the details of that you'll have to talk to Bill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you mentioned whether they'd come from a flight director's ranks, I couldn't figure out how that transpired."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they didn't come from the flight director's ranks. The Ops Leads were selected across MOD and essentially selected by the flight directors, or nominated, maybe, would be a better term, by the flight directors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that the RIOs, I guess, were assisting the flight director. We know that Sally Davis was one of the RIOs and since been selected as flight director. I think she's worked one of the missions so far now. So the experience the RIOs gained sounds like it was pretty valuable for what you're doing in the flight director's job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it was. The people that we picked for RIO generally consisted of people who had a fair amount of operations experience and understood how the Control Center works and how to get things done in the context of real-time operations. Naturally, we tried to pick people who we thought were talented and had a lot of capability. The fact that Sally fell in that category, I think, is the thing that made her a candidate for flight director. Not necessarily that the RIO job is a training ground or specifically suited to flight director office, but they should attract the same kinds of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about your experiences over in Russia and tell us how many trips you took over there and the contacts that you made?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00784:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 28.415796637124004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was usually in the morning. I think it was either seven to eight or eight to nine in the morning Moscow time. So the incoming team would ride the train in, when the transportation was still available for the off-going team to get home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you brought the subject up, I remember some of the scary trips between the hotel and the Control Center. The traffic seemed to get worse every time you went over there, and more lanes where there weren't lanes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, noticeably. When we first started going to Moscow, I think gasoline was not terribly available. From talking to some of the flight controllers, simple car parts were not available. So there wasn't a lot of private automobile traffic early on when we started. But it seemed like every time I went over there, it got worse and worse, more heavily traveled. Yes, depending on which direction you were going in the morning or the end of the day, traffic could be quite a zoo. As you say, lanes where there weren't lanes.\\n\\n I don't want to be critical of the Russians. I think what they do is probably fairly typical of a lot of other European countries. I think it's different from the degree of order that we're used to here in American highways. I won't say whether it's good or bad, but it was sure different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anybody that complains about the traffic on NASA Road One ought to go to visit some of the roads over in Moscow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's probably a good point. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with us some of your most memorable experiences during the Shuttle-Mir Program, whether they were in Russia or here in Houston?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00784:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.455260840000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never have done that. My wife and I have talked about it. I'd like to be able to take my wife over. Of course, she also works in the program now and is involved in the ISS Program, so we're looking for opportunities when we might both have business over there. If that doesn't work out, we'll probably just wind up when one of us goes over for business, with the other one buying a ticket, and going on over and doing a little touring around. But so far, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure you painted a colorful picture for her from all the trips you've made."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had some good stories for her. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm going to see if Rebecca or Paul have a couple of questions for you.\n\nYou worked on [STS-] 63?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked on [STS-] 91?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00784:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.728067600000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had some good stories for her. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm going to see if Rebecca or Paul have a couple of questions for you.\n\nYou worked on [STS-] 63?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked on [STS-] 91?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just really a short amount of time between those two, but yet lots of experiences in between. Can you give us an idea of how you felt, from the exhilaration of being on the first one, to working on the last one?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00784:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 13.716000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think if you ask that question of anybody, the first thing they'll tell you is, \"Well, I would have liked to have flown.\" [Laughter] But having been consigned to the ground, I think the flight director job was probably the job that I would have chosen if I would have had complete freedom to pick. I've had a fairly high amount of authority and freedom to go do my job in a lot of aspects. I felt like I was able to make a significant contribution. I really think I had an input into things that happened and steered things in the right directions when I had a chance to participate. So, in retrospect, I can't see anyplace where I'd say, \"Gee, I wish I had been over there,\" or, \"I wish I had been in a different place or been doing something different at the time.\" In this period of the program, I think this was the best place to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were a little boy, did you want to be a flight director when you grew up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Either flight director or an astronaut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seriously?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seriously. I'll never forget, when I was a kid, sitting in elementary school with my head down on my desk, listening to Alan Shepard's first flight, and I was bitten with the space bug."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember that, too."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00784:60", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.24, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Either flight director or an astronaut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seriously?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seriously. I'll never forget, when I was a kid, sitting in elementary school with my head down on my desk, listening to Alan Shepard's first flight, and I was bitten with the space bug."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember that, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through my whole childhood, I didn't miss a launch or a splashdown or a moon walk. I'm sure if you ask a lot of other people my age, I fell asleep on the living room floor in front of the TV, watching people walk on the moon in the middle of the night, California time.\\n\\n I really did want to be in the program here and steered my education in that direction. Like everybody, I wanted to be an astronaut at one time, you know, but just the statistical probabilities of getting selected into that small pool of folks are tough. But as a kid, I used to remember reading the newspaper, \"Flight Director, Gene Kranz,\" and I kind of thought that that was a fascinating job and would really like to be in that position.\\n\\n I had a really interesting experience. About five years ago, I sat on a panel discussion in front of some high school students. I was on a podium with Gene Kranz and Henry Pohl and a gentleman from Lockheed. I looked down the row, and was sort of taken aback for just a minute, that I was considered worthy of sitting at a podium with people of that caliber, and that of all of my childhood ambitions, to sit in a chair that those kinds of people sat in, to sit in the flight director console where Gene Kranz had sat, and to be in the company of brilliant engineers like Mr. Pohl, that was probably the first time in my life that I ever really felt that I had accomplished my objectives. Because being the hard-driving type, we're always feeling like we should have done more or accomplished more or wish we'd gone further. But that was a real moment of satisfaction for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does one do to become a flight director? I mean, you sit at console for a while, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00070:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 86.81020949114058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll have to go back and look. I have my notes somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I completely forget that. We met off and on. Boy, I want to say it took us about six months to finish all the deliberations. And it wasn’t an ongoing—you know, we didn’t meet every day for three weeks or something like that. We met and went back and thought about it and polled people, went back to the centers to try to find out what the level of reception would be. Interestingly, there were some people who were opposed to it, for a variety of reasons. You could not get people to understand that these were going to be two co-equal awards; it was just that the criteria for receiving one as opposed to the other was technical versus nontechnical. There was nothing for the nontechnical people up until that time. Although anybody could receive an Exceptional Service Award, it was always considered to be something for technical achievement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you learn that you were assigned to your next flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my goodness. I really don’t remember, because my next one, it was my first command, and that was being the commander of STS-45 ATLAS [Atmospheric Laboratory for Applications and Science]. And I actually think, if I remember correctly, much the same as I had learned that I was going to be on STS-31, the Hubble Space Telescope mission, it was in the latter phases of preparation for that flight that I was advised that two years hence I was going to get an opportunity to command my first mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mention, this is your first as a commander. What were the differences for training and getting ready for this mission?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00070:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 57.08602036088785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, Sergei, he talked back and forth quite a bit with his friend there. And I can’t remember whether it was a former crewmember of his, I don’t think so, but it was a very good friend, and they talked back and forth about things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of those conversations was on television. Good Morning, America telecast it live."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’ve got to remember if it worked. Ideally what we were going to do was that we were going to do split screen, or tri-screen. And I think it was [Charles] Charlie Gibson, but I can’t remember. I think it may have been Charlie Gibson was going to do the interview, and we were going to have us on [Space Shuttle] Discovery, and the Russian cosmonauts on Mir, and Charlie Gibson on this tri-screen thing. And we did have the conversation go on. I’m not sure that we were able to get Mir simultaneously with us, other than voice. But it went pretty well, and they talked back and forth and among each other and compared notes and all that, as best I can remember. You have the advantage of the transcript."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also received a phone call from the [Russian] Prime Minister."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that’s right. That is right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memories of that phone call?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00070:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 65.78521032208377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that’s right. That is right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memories of that phone call?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do, because we knew it was coming and so we set it up such that Sergei would be able to talk to him because he was the only one that spoke Russian. As I remember, it went very well, and that was the time that the invitation was extended that we come to Russia, the invitation on the part of the Russian government from Prime Minister [Boris] Yeltsin. I think it was Yeltsin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Viktor] Chernomyrdin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Chernomyrdin was the Deputy Prime Minister. And Chernomyrdin I knew because he had come to Houston during our training and I had had the opportunity to demonstrate the Remote Manipulator System to him over in Building 9. We had him in a simulator. Pretty sharp guy, as a matter of fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they extended an invitation to go to Russia for post-flight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00070:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 70.87245591342642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do, because we knew it was coming and so we set it up such that Sergei would be able to talk to him because he was the only one that spoke Russian. As I remember, it went very well, and that was the time that the invitation was extended that we come to Russia, the invitation on the part of the Russian government from Prime Minister [Boris] Yeltsin. I think it was Yeltsin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Viktor] Chernomyrdin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Chernomyrdin was the Deputy Prime Minister. And Chernomyrdin I knew because he had come to Houston during our training and I had had the opportunity to demonstrate the Remote Manipulator System to him over in Building 9. We had him in a simulator. Pretty sharp guy, as a matter of fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they extended an invitation to go to Russia for post-flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which we took. We accepted, and we went to Russia post-flight. That was another one of the highlights of that particular flight and my time down here, because it gave us an opportunity—it was the first time I’d ever been to Russia. And for Ken Reightler and me, I think more so than anybody else on the crew, because, as I remember, we had Ken and me, [Ron Sega], Sergei, Franklin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Jan Davis?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00070:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 76.52495101491824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Chernomyrdin was the Deputy Prime Minister. And Chernomyrdin I knew because he had come to Houston during our training and I had had the opportunity to demonstrate the Remote Manipulator System to him over in Building 9. We had him in a simulator. Pretty sharp guy, as a matter of fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they extended an invitation to go to Russia for post-flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which we took. We accepted, and we went to Russia post-flight. That was another one of the highlights of that particular flight and my time down here, because it gave us an opportunity—it was the first time I’d ever been to Russia. And for Ken Reightler and me, I think more so than anybody else on the crew, because, as I remember, we had Ken and me, [Ron Sega], Sergei, Franklin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Jan Davis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Jan Davis. So Ken and I were the only [active duty] military guys, and when we went to Moscow, one of the first things we did was tour the Kremlin. And there we were standing on the wall of the Kremlin, looking down on Red Square, and we both looked at each other and kind of went, “Pinch me. This can’t be real.” Never in our lives did we, as military guys, did we ever envision that we would be standing on the Kremlin wall looking down on Red Square peacefully, as a partner, so to speak. For the two of us it was pretty spectacular. The whole episode of coming together as a crew, bringing the Russians here, training, flying together, and then going to Russia and having exposure and an opportunity to go into the things that formerly had been verboten was pretty impressive to us, to the two of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite an experience."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00070:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.85161669371142, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, I’ve got to remember this. See, I always remember the good stuff. Refresh my memory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The TPS blankets around the forward RCS [Reaction Control System] thruster began to peel back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think I do remember that vaguely. Yes. Okay. What was your question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just if there was any concern with that as far as reentry was involved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Just as I think—and I can’t speak for anybody else, and no one will ever know—but my suspicion is the crew of 107 didn’t have any concern about their safety because they depended on the team and figured that people had looked and done the best job they could. I know hindsight is always 20/20, but I didn’t have any concern, not during our reentry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked about the launches and we talked about the flights. Let’s talk for a moment about landing."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00070:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 46.501796326346025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think I do remember that vaguely. Yes. Okay. What was your question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just if there was any concern with that as far as reentry was involved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Just as I think—and I can’t speak for anybody else, and no one will ever know—but my suspicion is the crew of 107 didn’t have any concern about their safety because they depended on the team and figured that people had looked and done the best job they could. I know hindsight is always 20/20, but I didn’t have any concern, not during our reentry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked about the launches and we talked about the flights. Let’s talk for a moment about landing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a commander on the last two flights, what was that experience like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00070:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 42.3301270025088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, coming back that way? Yes. Much gentler. Did you all interview him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we haven’t."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Will you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be interesting to see what he says. But I know, just asking him about differences, very gentle compared to Soyuz, and again, he said there’s no question when you land in Soyuz because you’re fearing for life. He said the hard part is after you land, because if the winds are high on the desert, you get dragged around by the parachute until it gets released, and they have guys get injured post-landing, just getting thrown around inside the capsule. Ours is real nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned before we took a break, you left NASA and returned to the Marine Corps. In 2002, you were nominated for a position as Deputy Administer."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00070:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 47.033474447232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Will you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be interesting to see what he says. But I know, just asking him about differences, very gentle compared to Soyuz, and again, he said there’s no question when you land in Soyuz because you’re fearing for life. He said the hard part is after you land, because if the winds are high on the desert, you get dragged around by the parachute until it gets released, and they have guys get injured post-landing, just getting thrown around inside the capsule. Ours is real nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned before we took a break, you left NASA and returned to the Marine Corps. In 2002, you were nominated for a position as Deputy Administer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we’re going to talk about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Only if you want to."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00070:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 44, "return_to_go": 52.25941605248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be interesting to see what he says. But I know, just asking him about differences, very gentle compared to Soyuz, and again, he said there’s no question when you land in Soyuz because you’re fearing for life. He said the hard part is after you land, because if the winds are high on the desert, you get dragged around by the parachute until it gets released, and they have guys get injured post-landing, just getting thrown around inside the capsule. Ours is real nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned before we took a break, you left NASA and returned to the Marine Corps. In 2002, you were nominated for a position as Deputy Administer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we’re going to talk about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Only if you want to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’s okay. I don’t have any secrets. Somebody knows it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. If you could tell us about the circumstances around that nomination."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00070:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.180352000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My NASA career, or my entire career?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your NASA career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, without a doubt the most challenging in my fourteen years with NASA was getting on the airplane and going back to Washington. And it got harder and harder every time when I’d come home; going back to Washington for that job. Seriously, that was my undoing. I have never hated a job. I hated that job. I just could not convince myself that I belonged there, for one thing. I never got a feeling that I was making a difference, the other thing. And I always had the feeling that I was swimming upstream, and it just wasn’t pleasant. So while I enjoyed the people, it got harder and harder. And my wife and my daughter will tell you—my son doesn’t know because he was gone; he was a marine by that time—but my daughter was here in high school, and they would literally have to push me out of the house either to go to Ellington [Field] to get on an airplane and fly back, or take me to the airport and get me out of the car to fly back to Washington. I dreaded that. And it got worse and worse every time I went back. I wish I didn’t have to say that, but there is no question what was the most difficult thing for me.\\n\\n And second most difficult was the decision to leave. And third most difficult was telling my crew and my training team. In that order.\\n\\n Then in the Marine Corps the most difficult thing was—boy, that’s easy, too. Sending people in harm’s way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you don’t mind, I’m going to ask Rebecca and Jennifer if they have any questions for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have one for you. When you were talking about preparing for STS-60, negotiations and plans and meetings were being held in parallel to start the Shuttle-Mir Program. Were you aware of that, or what were you aware of what was going on at the time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00070:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.0992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have one for you. When you were talking about preparing for STS-60, negotiations and plans and meetings were being held in parallel to start the Shuttle-Mir Program. Were you aware of that, or what were you aware of what was going on at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were quite aware of what was going on because a lot of times it affected what we were able to do with the Russians. We were aware of some of the stumbling blocks that were arising, and there one of the things that made you feel good was that while I didn’t have any direct input into Shuttle-Mir and what was going on between us and the Russians, because of our contact with Sergei and Vladimir and the fact that they were consulted constantly by the Russians, by their side, and they had input—at least we were led to believe they had input—we were able to talk to them a lot and try to instill some reason in the discussion that was going on. So, undoubtedly we didn’t know everything that was going on, but we were aware of how difficult it was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious because it was announced as a one-time, and then before you launched it became the beginning of several years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you’re right. When we were first assigned, I don’t think there was any such thing as Phase 1. We were not the initial flight in Phase 1. And that didn’t come until almost before we flew, that we were identified as a part of the Shuttle-Mir Program, as the first flight in Phase 1. I think that came real late, as I can remember, if it did, before we flew, to be quite honest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had a couple of questions for you. We talked to Dave Leestma. He talked about how your class called themselves the “Needless Nineteen.” Do you remember anything about that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00693:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We certainly felt like the protest was without merit, and the fact that we were allowed to continue the CRS contract throughout the whole protest period I thought was very telling, because that required NASA to get a dispensation to continue the contract while the protest was underway. Ultimately, we prevailed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about the change on the demo [demonstration] flight from the unpressurized to the internal, pressurized cargo. In what other ways did your agreement with NASA evolve over the years of its enactment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The overall visiting vehicle requirements have evolved some. NASA was starting with a pretty good set of visiting vehicle requirements because they had run the [Russian] Progress [cargo delivery spacecraft], the European [Space Agency] ATV [Automated Transfer Vehicle], and the Japanese [Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency] HTV [H-II Transfer Vehicle], and all three vehicles were operational or nearly operational when we started.\\n\\n The Safety Review Panel, which I think is a very competent organization and very good to work with, already had a lot of experience on what does it take to integrate a visiting vehicle into the Station, and NASA had a clear vision of what they wanted as far as cargo. That said, deep in the details, there have been some changes in the visiting vehicle requirements, and those were more or less worked out as we went along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about your relationship with the ISS Program Office and how you negotiated those changes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First of all, we’ve had a very good relationship with the ISS Program Office. I am very impressed with Mike [Michael T.] Suffredini’s leadership, and it’s overall been a very good experience. I’d say a lot of the negotiation of really detailed requirements came in after I had moved from being program manager, so it’s probably a good question to ask Frank DeMauro when you interview him later. In general, both sides came together to get the best overall result."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another significant change to the program was the addition of some augmentation money for fiscal year ’11. Can you talk to us about how you found out about that augmentation, and then how you implemented it in your development program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 22.561813524372443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, Nancy, tell us a little bit about where you're, where you were from in the United States and how did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was born actually just a few blocks from here over at GW. So I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Here being D.C.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "D.C. My dad was with the State Department. And at the grand age of two, we moved overseas to Thailand. So that was the first of several countries that I lived in as a kid. And when I first heard about Peace Corps was overseas when we were actually living in Bogota. And my dad would occasionally bring Peace Corps volunteers home to dinner, he would see them in the embassy or wherever. And he always said they looked hungry. And so he would bring them home to dinner. And two or three that I remember having dinner with. And I just thought they were such interesting, wonderful people. And so at the grand age of eight or nine, I announced that I was going to grow up and be a Peace Corps volunteer. And my father said, well, that's a nice two year strategy. But, you know, it's not a lifetime career, which was a bit of a shock. And I said, oh, okay. So I have to have some other plans too.\n\nSo that's how I first heard about it. And I really was, it became a family joke, but I was really serious. I did want to do the Peace Corps from a very young age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finished undergraduate?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.40201502708049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was born actually just a few blocks from here over at GW. So I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Here being D.C.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "D.C. My dad was with the State Department. And at the grand age of two, we moved overseas to Thailand. So that was the first of several countries that I lived in as a kid. And when I first heard about Peace Corps was overseas when we were actually living in Bogota. And my dad would occasionally bring Peace Corps volunteers home to dinner, he would see them in the embassy or wherever. And he always said they looked hungry. And so he would bring them home to dinner. And two or three that I remember having dinner with. And I just thought they were such interesting, wonderful people. And so at the grand age of eight or nine, I announced that I was going to grow up and be a Peace Corps volunteer. And my father said, well, that's a nice two year strategy. But, you know, it's not a lifetime career, which was a bit of a shock. And I said, oh, okay. So I have to have some other plans too.\n\nSo that's how I first heard about it. And I really was, it became a family joke, but I was really serious. I did want to do the Peace Corps from a very young age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finished undergraduate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I finished undergraduate at the University of Virginia. One of my professors there was in what we call K-1. So we each had a group number. So he was K-1. He was in the first group to go to Korea, he and his wife. And he knew that I had lived in Korea as a kid. One of the other countries that I lived in was Korea. And so at the end of my time at UVA, I talked to him about whether I should do a Fulbright or join the Peace Corps. And he suggested that either would actually be fine. So I started out by applying to the Fulbright and getting rejected and, but I had my application into the Peace Corps the next day. So it all worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you major in in undergrad or sort of undergraduate?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 22.71853707046974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I finished undergraduate at the University of Virginia. One of my professors there was in what we call K-1. So we each had a group number. So he was K-1. He was in the first group to go to Korea, he and his wife. And he knew that I had lived in Korea as a kid. One of the other countries that I lived in was Korea. And so at the end of my time at UVA, I talked to him about whether I should do a Fulbright or join the Peace Corps. And he suggested that either would actually be fine. So I started out by applying to the Fulbright and getting rejected and, but I had my application into the Peace Corps the next day. So it all worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you major in in undergrad or sort of undergraduate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "History."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "History?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. So what was your reaction when you were accepted?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.315557187120465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Why? No, no. I always liked history as a kid. I mean, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could tell you everything there was to know about the British monarchy. And then I branched out a little bit beyond that. Life was more interesting than Elizabeth and Mary, Queen of Scots. But, um, I don't know. I don't, I don't know that I could tell you. I know that I felt very, I mean, I lived in Cambodia, Thailand, Korea over the years, and I felt very comfortable in those countries. I didn't feel so comfortable in some of the other countries we lived in. For example, in Colombia, I didn't feel all that comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a security concern."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it was security. Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.906174652356071, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could tell you everything there was to know about the British monarchy. And then I branched out a little bit beyond that. Life was more interesting than Elizabeth and Mary, Queen of Scots. But, um, I don't know. I don't, I don't know that I could tell you. I know that I felt very, I mean, I lived in Cambodia, Thailand, Korea over the years, and I felt very comfortable in those countries. I didn't feel so comfortable in some of the other countries we lived in. For example, in Colombia, I didn't feel all that comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a security concern."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it was security. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, even back in the sixties, I was never allowed to be alone because of concern that I could be kidnapped so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is drug cartel or that kind of?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.04104159656568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there were embassy kids that were. I remember there was at least 18 year old boy that was kidnapped. So as you can imagine, a nine year old girl was not going to be left alone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and that was oppressive. Whereas, you know, in Thailand now, I don't remember this, but the family story is that at three years of age, I knew all the neighbors and I knew who was the good cook. And I would go visit in the afternoon for snacks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Smart."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Speaking Thai. And my parents had no idea I was doing any of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very smart. Very smart. So there were 50 people in your group when it first started out. Actually, where did you do your training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 15.601157329517422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and that was oppressive. Whereas, you know, in Thailand now, I don't remember this, but the family story is that at three years of age, I knew all the neighbors and I knew who was the good cook. And I would go visit in the afternoon for snacks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Smart."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Speaking Thai. And my parents had no idea I was doing any of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very smart. Very smart. So there were 50 people in your group when it first started out. Actually, where did you do your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, we did three days in San Francisco, sort of what they call staging I think. And a few people were disinvited and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they had deselect or whatever, disinvited was the term?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.55684147724158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Speaking Thai. And my parents had no idea I was doing any of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very smart. Very smart. So there were 50 people in your group when it first started out. Actually, where did you do your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, we did three days in San Francisco, sort of what they call staging I think. And a few people were disinvited and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they had deselect or whatever, disinvited was the term?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Disinvited. And then we got on the plane and flew to Korea. And we were trained in a town called Chuncheon, which is 3 hours east of, well, now it's an hour and a half. But in those days, it was 3 hours east of Seoul. Now, in the K-1 era, my professor, for him it was a three day trip. So he got there in 1966 and a trip from Seoul to Chuncheon was three days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three days. Wow."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 8.396490530268423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, we did three days in San Francisco, sort of what they call staging I think. And a few people were disinvited and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they had deselect or whatever, disinvited was the term?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Disinvited. And then we got on the plane and flew to Korea. And we were trained in a town called Chuncheon, which is 3 hours east of, well, now it's an hour and a half. But in those days, it was 3 hours east of Seoul. Now, in the K-1 era, my professor, for him it was a three day trip. So he got there in 1966 and a trip from Seoul to Chuncheon was three days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three days. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So what were the rest stops for us on the three hour trip were the places that you spent the night, which was really kind of amazing when I realized that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so do you all live in family, with families, or how did that work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.176255871424447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, most of us lived with families. I think there were, there were a couple of married couples who I think ended up staying in local inns, but we lived with families. Well, I did my training there for a month. And then the second part, the second eight weeks or something, those of us in maternal child health were moved to Seoul. And we went, we did our training at the Family Planning Center in Seoul. We were the first maternal child health volunteers in many, many years. And so they, they, the training was brand new. And unfortunately, some of it was kind of irrelevant. We had a lot of sessions on malnutrition in Africa, which we found kind of confusing. But during that, when we were in Seoul, we actually lived in inns, local inns right near the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Neat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The center. The inns, the local inns also had sort of business going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Short term, hourly kind of business. It was kind of interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You picked up on that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4180620793604968, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The center. The inns, the local inns also had sort of business going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Short term, hourly kind of business. It was kind of interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You picked up on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. We picked up on it. We learned to play cards with these women. And, um, it was, it was an interesting sort of intersection of different lives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I'm sure."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9852618263709836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. We picked up on it. We learned to play cards with these women. And, um, it was, it was an interesting sort of intersection of different lives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were delightful. I mean, you know, you know, but it's sort of the strange thing where they couldn't quite figure out what the heck we were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, why would we come to live in this place, you know, and, and we're sort of sitting there going, wow, figuring it out, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why are we? Well, maybe you could practice some of your MCH skills there."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.3169575848566484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were delightful. I mean, you know, you know, but it's sort of the strange thing where they couldn't quite figure out what the heck we were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, why would we come to live in this place, you know, and, and we're sort of sitting there going, wow, figuring it out, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why are we? Well, maybe you could practice some of your MCH skills there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was how long in total?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5743973165073872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, why would we come to live in this place, you know, and, and we're sort of sitting there going, wow, figuring it out, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why are we? Well, maybe you could practice some of your MCH skills there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was how long in total?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had 12 weeks of training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Twelve weeks, okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8604414627859858, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was how long in total?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had 12 weeks of training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Twelve weeks, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the big challenges was because they hadn't been training maternal child health volunteers at all, if ever. I think they had some back in the sixties. But they gave us all the wrong language, so they trained us as though we were going to be interacting with well educated women in Seoul and we were being sent to the country. And so literally the language that we learned for interacting with women who are pregnant or with mothers about vaccinations for their children, the language was all wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are there just different dialects?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6236994563573113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If it was a younger girl, that would be different language. You know, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you have to learn all the honorifics and the high form and the low form. And then there is dialect, satoori they call it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when you're out in the country, you really have to be able to speak to the people in the language that they use. And we were totally unprepared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is Korean difficult to learn? I mean, you had the background of having lived there, so you had a?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9152216181747903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you have to learn all the honorifics and the high form and the low form. And then there is dialect, satoori they call it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when you're out in the country, you really have to be able to speak to the people in the language that they use. And we were totally unprepared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is Korean difficult to learn? I mean, you had the background of having lived there, so you had a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, what I retained from having lived there as a kid was minimal. Hello. Thanks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So but as a group then, did your group pick up Korean and this, these subtleties you're talking about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2391351313053223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when you're out in the country, you really have to be able to speak to the people in the language that they use. And we were totally unprepared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is Korean difficult to learn? I mean, you had the background of having lived there, so you had a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, what I retained from having lived there as a kid was minimal. Hello. Thanks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So but as a group then, did your group pick up Korean and this, these subtleties you're talking about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was, that's 12 weeks of language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it, huh, just like that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5990390347836914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, what I retained from having lived there as a kid was minimal. Hello. Thanks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So but as a group then, did your group pick up Korean and this, these subtleties you're talking about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was, that's 12 weeks of language training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it, huh, just like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, it was tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been very tough."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.250935885968131, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Props."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And believe it or not, we, we learned the language that way. Interestingly enough, my understanding is that this is now being used as language training even in the States now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's, um, very frustrating. But you do learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It forces you. Yeah, I guess."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.2480689950223836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's, um, very frustrating. But you do learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It forces you. Yeah, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly. It forces you. And of course, if you're living with families or hookers or whatever, every day you go home and you say something more and, and everyone was so excited to hear you start to put a sentence together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's all positive reinforcement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice. So out of the 50 or so that started, do they all, did all those complete? Or what did it look like at the end of your training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.244529623484423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's all positive reinforcement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice. So out of the 50 or so that started, do they all, did all those complete? Or what did it look like at the end of your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We probably had 25. I don't know at the end of two years. We had 25 at the end of training. We probably lost four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four or five. Several of them were in maternal child health and they were the older women who just really couldn't handle the squat toilets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the cultural stuff like that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.827255137204914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We probably had 25. I don't know at the end of two years. We had 25 at the end of training. We probably lost four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four or five. Several of them were in maternal child health and they were the older women who just really couldn't handle the squat toilets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the cultural stuff like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sleeping on the floor. And the language, they just were blown away by the language. They were blown away by the silent method. Just I remember this one woman. I was in a class with her and she just, you know, threw up her hands. I think she had a piece of paper and the teacher told her she couldn't have that. And she threw it up and she said, I don't know what I'm doing here. And she was gone the next day so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That clarified it for her. Well. So overall, you were pretty well trained. I mean, even though some things were for Africa and so on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.993491271886026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, well, I think we were well trained in that we, we had a basic language. We could get around, we could navigate. We had a lot of cross- cultural training, which I think was very, uh, very much on target. That was pretty much arranged and organized by volunteers who are finishing up their service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they really had a good sense of what we needed as skill sets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, and then, you know, it was the luck of the draw in terms of where you were assigned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where were you assigned?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.5228287307234885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, and then, you know, it was the luck of the draw in terms of where you were assigned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where were you assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was assigned down on the south coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Goseong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name again?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.176331766325292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Goseong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Goseong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Goseong."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We spelled it in my day K-O-S-O-N-G. It's, they've changed all the transliteration. But anyways, a small town, basically the intersection of two dirt roads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people roughly?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.760903415216408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We spelled it in my day K-O-S-O-N-G. It's, they've changed all the transliteration. But anyways, a small town, basically the intersection of two dirt roads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people roughly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "20,000."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "20,000."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, my first site though, and I guess I should have said this first. I was, when we, when we get to town, there was another volunteer who was assigned to the same town. My maternal child health center was 13 kilometers outside of this Goseong, which was a two and a half hour bus ride on a really rough little road. And that was a really small little intersection. 70 people. And I remember, and it was a traditional Korean style house with a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the MCH center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.512114905796008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "20,000."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "20,000."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, my first site though, and I guess I should have said this first. I was, when we, when we get to town, there was another volunteer who was assigned to the same town. My maternal child health center was 13 kilometers outside of this Goseong, which was a two and a half hour bus ride on a really rough little road. And that was a really small little intersection. 70 people. And I remember, and it was a traditional Korean style house with a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the MCH center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the MCH center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name of the town?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.235683228662231, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, my first site though, and I guess I should have said this first. I was, when we, when we get to town, there was another volunteer who was assigned to the same town. My maternal child health center was 13 kilometers outside of this Goseong, which was a two and a half hour bus ride on a really rough little road. And that was a really small little intersection. 70 people. And I remember, and it was a traditional Korean style house with a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the MCH center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the MCH center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name of the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, Sangni, S-A-N-G-N-I. And it was a town of 70 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's where you basically spent your?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.928536920735812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the MCH center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name of the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, Sangni, S-A-N-G-N-I. And it was a town of 70 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's where you basically spent your?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where I thought I was spending my two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, where you thought."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.698374356373124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, Sangni, S-A-N-G-N-I. And it was a town of 70 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's where you basically spent your?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where I thought I was spending my two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, where you thought."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I remember walking around. There was a little creek and these two dirt roads and a school and the maternal child health center. And that was about it. And I remember walking around thinking, what the hell have you done, Nancy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, you didn't make the Fulbright."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.553749284859027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where I thought I was spending my two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, where you thought."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I remember walking around. There was a little creek and these two dirt roads and a school and the maternal child health center. And that was about it. And I remember walking around thinking, what the hell have you done, Nancy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, you didn't make the Fulbright."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was a doctor there at the center, at the, at the health center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. A Korean doctor?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.393054760954474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I remember walking around. There was a little creek and these two dirt roads and a school and the maternal child health center. And that was about it. And I remember walking around thinking, what the hell have you done, Nancy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, you didn't make the Fulbright."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was a doctor there at the center, at the, at the health center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. A Korean doctor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Korean doctor, Dr. Kim and his wife. They were from Seoul. And they were as out, you know, to sea as I was. I mean, they were from Seoul. They, they were sitting there going, oh my God. You know, they had never been to the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he a government doctor?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.139573778956139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Korean doctor, Dr. Kim and his wife. They were from Seoul. And they were as out, you know, to sea as I was. I mean, they were from Seoul. They, they were sitting there going, oh my God. You know, they had never been to the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he a government doctor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Government doctor. They all did a two year rotation training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lovely couple, a little, two little kids. They had me over to dinner the first week and we had spam, fried spam and Johnnie Walker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right at home."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.7086060067985445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't know it at the time, but that was actually a very expensive meal for them as it was, you know, all black market stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they were, they were really sweet. After about a month, I discovered that my health center was moving into Goseong, the main town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the end of, in two more months. So I basically only spent three months out in this little place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they reestablished it there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.282229638022894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the end of, in two more months. So I basically only spent three months out in this little place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they reestablished it there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the World Bank built a new maternal child health center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Goseong. And we moved in there and delivered babies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say we?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.202477375580994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the World Bank built a new maternal child health center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Goseong. And we moved in there and delivered babies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say we?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My, my coworker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so another Peace Corps volunteer or a Korean?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.8916415284233254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Goseong. And we moved in there and delivered babies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say we?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My, my coworker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so another Peace Corps volunteer or a Korean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, well, the other Peace Corps volunteer, Linda, who also had the same background I did. She was State Department and had lived in Seoul. So Linda was assigned in Kosong in the tuberculosis program. I was out in Sangni with the maternal child health program working with a midwife. So we actually delivered babies out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.5462683649148055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My, my coworker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so another Peace Corps volunteer or a Korean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, well, the other Peace Corps volunteer, Linda, who also had the same background I did. She was State Department and had lived in Seoul. So Linda was assigned in Kosong in the tuberculosis program. I was out in Sangni with the maternal child health program working with a midwife. So we actually delivered babies out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, out in the countryside. We delivered maybe 15 or 20 a month. When we moved into Goseong into our new delivery center, it got, it immediately went up to more like 30 to 40 a month. And then sometimes we had bumper months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "30 or 40 a month?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.940298183238672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, well, the other Peace Corps volunteer, Linda, who also had the same background I did. She was State Department and had lived in Seoul. So Linda was assigned in Kosong in the tuberculosis program. I was out in Sangni with the maternal child health program working with a midwife. So we actually delivered babies out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, out in the countryside. We delivered maybe 15 or 20 a month. When we moved into Goseong into our new delivery center, it got, it immediately went up to more like 30 to 40 a month. And then sometimes we had bumper months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "30 or 40 a month?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there were the months where we had 60. Mrs. Choe would always be really tired at the end of those months because she was on. She lived at the center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mrs. Choe is who?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3781090924874135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, out in the countryside. We delivered maybe 15 or 20 a month. When we moved into Goseong into our new delivery center, it got, it immediately went up to more like 30 to 40 a month. And then sometimes we had bumper months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "30 or 40 a month?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there were the months where we had 60. Mrs. Choe would always be really tired at the end of those months because she was on. She lived at the center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mrs. Choe is who?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mrs. Choe is the midwife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, she's the midwife. You were under her supervision?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.864565658319348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there were the months where we had 60. Mrs. Choe would always be really tired at the end of those months because she was on. She lived at the center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mrs. Choe is who?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mrs. Choe is the midwife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, she's the midwife. You were under her supervision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or whatever. Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5837663351431392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mrs. Choe, C-H-O-E. But spelled, but pronounced \"che.\" She was a midwife. She was about 60 years old. She had been trained, um, by the Japanese during the occupation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. One of the interesting things that she said to me was, can you get me a book on midwifery in Korean? Because she only had books that were in Japanese."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, so anyways, I, you know, my language was pretty bad because I couldn't really talk to the women. I had to learn all the new language. But she was on 24/7, so she needed help. And she taught me how to assist her in the delivery room. She taught me how to do the intake interviews and the language. And I got better the more I did it. And then I finally got to the point where my language was good enough that I could go to all the schools in our county and do health education. So Linda, the other volunteer and I went out to all the schools, all the middle schools and all the high schools, and gave talks on health care, sanitation, nutrition. Linda would talk about tuberculosis and some of the symptoms. We'd make a pitch for the health centers as a place to go. And then, of course, we always had to do the English. They wanted to speak English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do family planning?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9552670804236285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, so anyways, I, you know, my language was pretty bad because I couldn't really talk to the women. I had to learn all the new language. But she was on 24/7, so she needed help. And she taught me how to assist her in the delivery room. She taught me how to do the intake interviews and the language. And I got better the more I did it. And then I finally got to the point where my language was good enough that I could go to all the schools in our county and do health education. So Linda, the other volunteer and I went out to all the schools, all the middle schools and all the high schools, and gave talks on health care, sanitation, nutrition. Linda would talk about tuberculosis and some of the symptoms. We'd make a pitch for the health centers as a place to go. And then, of course, we always had to do the English. They wanted to speak English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do family planning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We were just really quite successful. We didn't do family planning as an explicit program, but within maternal child health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of the discussion with the mothers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was included?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.172518978248476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We were just really quite successful. We didn't do family planning as an explicit program, but within maternal child health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of the discussion with the mothers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was included?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you also hand out contraceptives or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4139099758316402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of the discussion with the mothers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was included?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you also hand out contraceptives or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at the maternal child health center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did the, I mean, if you educated them about this, where did they have to go then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9801357726316544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at the maternal child health center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did the, I mean, if you educated them about this, where did they have to go then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They probably went over to where Linda was, which had a broader range of services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was a half a block away. But now, of course, Korea. I was back there for a revisit that the Korean government sponsored and there was this joke about how you volunteers were too successful because, you know, they have a very steep decline in the birth rate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got the message across."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3112619695907273, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They probably went over to where Linda was, which had a broader range of services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was a half a block away. But now, of course, Korea. I was back there for a revisit that the Korean government sponsored and there was this joke about how you volunteers were too successful because, you know, they have a very steep decline in the birth rate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got the message across."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They blame it all on Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a, when you were in the city there, did you have, stay with the family or do you? How was, what were your housing like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.679179966211919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was a half a block away. But now, of course, Korea. I was back there for a revisit that the Korean government sponsored and there was this joke about how you volunteers were too successful because, you know, they have a very steep decline in the birth rate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got the message across."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They blame it all on Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a, when you were in the city there, did you have, stay with the family or do you? How was, what were your housing like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The housing. So when I, when I was out in Sangni, out in the very tiny place, I lived at the center and I just had a room right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this Linda lived with you or nearby?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.087977740235465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They blame it all on Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a, when you were in the city there, did you have, stay with the family or do you? How was, what were your housing like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The housing. So when I, when I was out in Sangni, out in the very tiny place, I lived at the center and I just had a room right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this Linda lived with you or nearby?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Linda was in Goseong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, she was. But when you came back in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.235909108690624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I came back in, I was, I started. My first family was a Jehovah's Witness family, which didn't mean a thing to me, but it didn't work out well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mainly because at some point we had this conversation and they told me I was a sig-injong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sig-injong."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I'm sitting there with my dictionary. You never went anywhere without your dictionary. And I'm like, I must be, I must be misunderstanding. So I asked them to write the word for me, and I said, oh my God, I'm not misunderstanding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they Korean or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.706565676322915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mainly because at some point we had this conversation and they told me I was a sig-injong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sig-injong."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I'm sitting there with my dictionary. You never went anywhere without your dictionary. And I'm like, I must be, I must be misunderstanding. So I asked them to write the word for me, and I said, oh my God, I'm not misunderstanding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they Korean or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were Korean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were Korean Jehovah's Witnesses. Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4648958966949563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were Korean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were Korean Jehovah's Witnesses. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And sig-injong means a cannibal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A cannibal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So I'm like trying to figure this out. And then I realized that because I had said I was Catholic and you eat the body."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The body of Christ."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8498843296610623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And sig-injong means a cannibal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A cannibal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So I'm like trying to figure this out. And then I realized that because I had said I was Catholic and you eat the body."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The body of Christ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was like, this isn't going to last. So I went to the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Clash of cultures."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.169937352072788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was, it was, I felt uncomfortable, shall we say. And I think they did too as a matter of fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were saying something by telling me that. So I, the next day at work, I said to Mrs. Choe, I'd like to move someplace. Do you have any suggestions? And I knew that Linda actually wanted to move as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Mrs. Choe, being Mrs. Choe, picked up the phone and called people. And we had a place together with a family the next week or two. He worked for the government, so he was, worked for the city government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he had access."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9135029037935642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Mrs. Choe, being Mrs. Choe, picked up the phone and called people. And we had a place together with a family the next week or two. He worked for the government, so he was, worked for the city government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he had access."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's how Mrs. Choe knew him. And basically we had two rooms off to the side of a house that's called the chacheche, which is a fairly common housing arrangement, or at least it was 35 years ago, where, you know, it's like a mother-in-law suite or something. So they had these two rooms that were to be let and we had a little kitchen area and that's where we lived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's alright."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us. And you were there two years, correct?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.348336559770627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's how Mrs. Choe knew him. And basically we had two rooms off to the side of a house that's called the chacheche, which is a fairly common housing arrangement, or at least it was 35 years ago, where, you know, it's like a mother-in-law suite or something. So they had these two rooms that were to be let and we had a little kitchen area and that's where we lived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's alright."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us. And you were there two years, correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there some, or can you relate one or two really unusual experiences that you, that stand out during those two years?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.831485066411807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us. And you were there two years, correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there some, or can you relate one or two really unusual experiences that you, that stand out during those two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Yeah. I mean, it's. I remember the time that we were at home visiting. Linda and I did a lot of home visiting. There were these subcounty health workers. And so we would make arrangements to go out and meet a subcounty health worker. Family planning and tuberculosis were usually the two workers that we would go home visiting with. And then we would go generally to all the tuberculosis patients' houses. And then occasionally I'd see a pregnant woman, which would be very exciting.\n\nBut there was this one day that we were out walking along the street, and one street is more like is a dirt road. And all of a sudden these men came out of this warehousey looking kind of building, and they were, they were like, you're, you're from the health center, right? And we're like, yes. Well, come, come, come! Do you have a stethoscope? Yes. And I did. And so we go in and there's a man on the floor. Well, they said, you need to pronounce him dead. I'm like, okay. So I turned to the health worker and she looked at me. She said, you got a stethoscope, I'm not touching him. So I went over and took his blood pressure and he indeed had passed away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he in fact had?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.368316740457564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there some, or can you relate one or two really unusual experiences that you, that stand out during those two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Yeah. I mean, it's. I remember the time that we were at home visiting. Linda and I did a lot of home visiting. There were these subcounty health workers. And so we would make arrangements to go out and meet a subcounty health worker. Family planning and tuberculosis were usually the two workers that we would go home visiting with. And then we would go generally to all the tuberculosis patients' houses. And then occasionally I'd see a pregnant woman, which would be very exciting.\n\nBut there was this one day that we were out walking along the street, and one street is more like is a dirt road. And all of a sudden these men came out of this warehousey looking kind of building, and they were, they were like, you're, you're from the health center, right? And we're like, yes. Well, come, come, come! Do you have a stethoscope? Yes. And I did. And so we go in and there's a man on the floor. Well, they said, you need to pronounce him dead. I'm like, okay. So I turned to the health worker and she looked at me. She said, you got a stethoscope, I'm not touching him. So I went over and took his blood pressure and he indeed had passed away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he in fact had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had. They wanted me to. So I actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, this is odd."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.853685267175071, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Yeah. I mean, it's. I remember the time that we were at home visiting. Linda and I did a lot of home visiting. There were these subcounty health workers. And so we would make arrangements to go out and meet a subcounty health worker. Family planning and tuberculosis were usually the two workers that we would go home visiting with. And then we would go generally to all the tuberculosis patients' houses. And then occasionally I'd see a pregnant woman, which would be very exciting.\n\nBut there was this one day that we were out walking along the street, and one street is more like is a dirt road. And all of a sudden these men came out of this warehousey looking kind of building, and they were, they were like, you're, you're from the health center, right? And we're like, yes. Well, come, come, come! Do you have a stethoscope? Yes. And I did. And so we go in and there's a man on the floor. Well, they said, you need to pronounce him dead. I'm like, okay. So I turned to the health worker and she looked at me. She said, you got a stethoscope, I'm not touching him. So I went over and took his blood pressure and he indeed had passed away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he in fact had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had. They wanted me to. So I actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, this is odd."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to go to the county office before we left that day and I had to sign some papers saying that he was dead. That's kind of unusual for maternal child health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You try to bring them in, not take them out."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6588707002161365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to go to the county office before we left that day and I had to sign some papers saying that he was dead. That's kind of unusual for maternal child health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You try to bring them in, not take them out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then there were, I mean, home visiting was just wonderful. I mean, you just had these incredible opportunities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a woman, she was probably in her eighties, lived all by herself in the, on the side of a hill with an outhouse down the hill a bit. Her house was absolutely immaculate. Everything was immaculate. And she, she said, she told me to come and sit next to her on the, they have something called a mattu, which is a wooden floor. We might call it like a porch. And she said, come and sit by me. And then she just started talking about she couldn't believe I came all the way from America to see her. And I couldn't bring myself to tell her, well actually, you're not pregnant, so you're not the person I came to see. But, you know, she was just so excited that these two Americans had come and she just wanted to have a little social."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Social. Yeah. Good for her."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.0031343088247535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So what I needed to do was to convince the mother-in-law that our health center and our midwife was the best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the good news was that my midwife was actually excellent. So I could do that with a with a clear conscience. And if I could tell that the mother-in-law wasn't being persuaded by my argument, then I would come back with a kit, a birthing kit, to make sure that everything was clean and that she understood not to use the knife from the kitchen and that kind of stuff. But I persuaded a lot of mothers-in-law."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were like, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So over the two years, how many babies would you guess you delivered? Well, ballpark."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.336815898694171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the good news was that my midwife was actually excellent. So I could do that with a with a clear conscience. And if I could tell that the mother-in-law wasn't being persuaded by my argument, then I would come back with a kit, a birthing kit, to make sure that everything was clean and that she understood not to use the knife from the kitchen and that kind of stuff. But I persuaded a lot of mothers-in-law."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were like, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So over the two years, how many babies would you guess you delivered? Well, ballpark."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. I would, I would phrase it that I assisted because Mrs. Choe took the lead, except for one time when we had three women delivering simultaneously. That was, that was a bad day. Um. I would say we averaged, what, between the 30 and the 60, probably go with 40 a month. So 24 months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would that be? Uh, 12 months, four 12s, forty. Like 500? So if you double that, a thousand. So you figure there's 1,000 young people over there who can say."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.485350998549079, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were like, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So over the two years, how many babies would you guess you delivered? Well, ballpark."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. I would, I would phrase it that I assisted because Mrs. Choe took the lead, except for one time when we had three women delivering simultaneously. That was, that was a bad day. Um. I would say we averaged, what, between the 30 and the 60, probably go with 40 a month. So 24 months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would that be? Uh, 12 months, four 12s, forty. Like 500? So if you double that, a thousand. So you figure there's 1,000 young people over there who can say."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I went back, I took Michael and we went back in '80 just after HVO [Health Volunteers Overseas] got started. And I was walking down the streets of Goseong, and mothers were coming and picking up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And showing you their baby."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6503899983878654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. I would, I would phrase it that I assisted because Mrs. Choe took the lead, except for one time when we had three women delivering simultaneously. That was, that was a bad day. Um. I would say we averaged, what, between the 30 and the 60, probably go with 40 a month. So 24 months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would that be? Uh, 12 months, four 12s, forty. Like 500? So if you double that, a thousand. So you figure there's 1,000 young people over there who can say."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I went back, I took Michael and we went back in '80 just after HVO [Health Volunteers Overseas] got started. And I was walking down the streets of Goseong, and mothers were coming and picking up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And showing you their baby."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You delivered this one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How lovely. How lovely."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8337666648754058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I went back, I took Michael and we went back in '80 just after HVO [Health Volunteers Overseas] got started. And I was walking down the streets of Goseong, and mothers were coming and picking up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And showing you their baby."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You delivered this one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How lovely. How lovely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that as really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very satisfying. I mean, that's the same as a doctor."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.263909462809143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that as really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very satisfying. I mean, that's the same as a doctor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they remembered that I had been there. And Michael was, you know, he was kind of amazed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Blown away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, well, I was the only white woman in the room, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stood out."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5154549586768256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they remembered that I had been there. And Michael was, you know, he was kind of amazed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Blown away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, well, I was the only white woman in the room, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stood out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some interesting deliveries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say, do you have any like breaches or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.215987597636249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, we had, we had a woman who came in and she, she had a baby. And then I looked at Mrs. Choe and I said, well, she's still pregnant. And Mrs. Choe hauled off and slugged me and said, you, you fool. And I was like, well, what did I do wrong? She said, there's another one in there. I said, oh my God. The good news was that it wasn't breach so we got the second baby out. But that's always a problem with twins, is the possibility of breach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a young lady and this was, this was a sad story. A young lady came in, she was probably 14, and she had been raped. Probably by someone in her family, that was never made clear to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But she had hidden her pregnancy and she walked into the center with her very pregnant older sister. And I immediately went to get the older sister to take her into the examining room. And Mrs. Choe, years of experience, said, no, take the girl. And I looked at Mrs. Choe, like? And I was like, well, she knows what she's doing. So I took the girl in and then she started unwrapping. She had, she had wrapped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She had tied herself up that tightly?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3775150093526123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Mrs. Choe could see it. I had no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She delivered the next day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Holy mackerel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, she was terrified."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure she was. Yeah, yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.752794454836236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She delivered the next day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Holy mackerel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, she was terrified."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure she was. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was one of those things where I realized, wow, Mrs. Choe sees things at a level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, it's many years of experience."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.169771616484707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, she was terrified."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure she was. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was one of those things where I realized, wow, Mrs. Choe sees things at a level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, it's many years of experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She's not seen at all, but seen more, more than others. Were there any young boys, not young boys, the young men in your group who were in the MCH program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.633079573871896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was one of those things where I realized, wow, Mrs. Choe sees things at a level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, it's many years of experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She's not seen at all, but seen more, more than others. Were there any young boys, not young boys, the young men in your group who were in the MCH program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was all female."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was all female?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.355390361964191, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All female."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And most there were in, there were ten of us in the end, and eight of them were in vaccination programs, and two of us worked with a midwife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was always so happy that I worked with a midwife as opposed to the vaccination programs, because all, all that you did if you were in the vaccination program was go to the schools and have children start screaming as soon as they see you because they know it means shots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So while, every once in a while I'm sure you took some kind of time off. Did you have any interesting vacation experiences?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.846160940696532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was always so happy that I worked with a midwife as opposed to the vaccination programs, because all, all that you did if you were in the vaccination program was go to the schools and have children start screaming as soon as they see you because they know it means shots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So while, every once in a while I'm sure you took some kind of time off. Did you have any interesting vacation experiences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Planned those right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, you were single at the time, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.495734378551702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Planned those right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, you were single at the time, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We went, Linda and I went over to Kyoto for the Cherry Blossom Festival."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, such a beautiful place."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.341193808064679, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he came back and he said, I got you tickets. And he said, it's my, my thank you for what you're doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he gave us some tickets and he put us on the train and we're going along. And I, I looked at Linda and I said, I think this is the bullet train. And she said, no, he wouldn't have done that. And I said, well, we're going very fast. And it was a bullet train,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How cool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we went to the, in Kyoto we stayed at the youth hostel. And when we signed in we had Korean youth hostel cards and the guy looked at us and said, well, you're not Korean, how do you have Korean youth hostel cards? And we said, we're Peace Corps in Korea. So he gave us a private room. I mean, it was just amazing. So, it was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, the respect. Yeah, yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.18665902230207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we went to the, in Kyoto we stayed at the youth hostel. And when we signed in we had Korean youth hostel cards and the guy looked at us and said, well, you're not Korean, how do you have Korean youth hostel cards? And we said, we're Peace Corps in Korea. So he gave us a private room. I mean, it was just amazing. So, it was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, the respect. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, wonderful time. Then the second year, the second winter, we got smart and went down to Thailand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Spent a couple of weeks in Thailand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So no bad experiences and all that, everything was just perfect?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.00822101518774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Spent a couple of weeks in Thailand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So no bad experiences and all that, everything was just perfect?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the vacation?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On vacations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No bad experiences. I mean, it was a little unnerving when I got on the bus in Bangkok to go down to Surat Thani or wherever we went. There were bullet holes, and you're kind of like, in the windows. I was like, okay. So what I decided to do, I had my backpack, which had everything of value. I had it in my lap and I said, okay, if the rebels come on with guns, I'm just handing it to them. You know, be done with it. I'm not making a fight. And there were no rebels that night. So it was good news."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So looking back on your two years, what do you think were your main accomplishments, if you had to sort of package it somehow?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.112514883688066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was the beginning of a several month activity of going to Seoul and talking to people and figuring out what he needed and identifying a surgeon. Taking the family, the mother, the father and the five year old boy up to Seoul, which was an experience. I mean, we did the escalators dozens of times because they were so much fun. We did the elevator too. Anyways, we got an idea of what he needed and it was going to cost money. So we organized with some input from another volunteer who had this great idea. She said, I'm going to walk for Sung-mu. And I looked at her and said, well, why don't we just have Peace Corps walk? And she said, yes!\n\nWell, so we had to walkathon. It was the first walkathon in Korea and it was a big deal. And the U.S. Marines at the U.S. embassy wouldn't allow you to go to work until you'd pledged. You know, they had a thing at the front and have you pledged for the walk?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Perfect."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we raised all the money. We raised more money than we needed. We had the walk. Some of the Marines came down. All the Peace Corps volunteers in the country came. The local alpine climbing club was there in full outfit. The mayor led off the parade. We got a lot of great press, raised way too much money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did that go for, the money?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the surgery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it was specifically for this young boy."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.347238759653407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we raised all the money. We raised more money than we needed. We had the walk. Some of the Marines came down. All the Peace Corps volunteers in the country came. The local alpine climbing club was there in full outfit. The mayor led off the parade. We got a lot of great press, raised way too much money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did that go for, the money?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the surgery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it was specifically for this young boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a surgery for Sung-mu because there was a doctor at Severance who was American trained, could do the surgery, um, and he contributed his services. But there was all the, you know, the hospital bill, etcetera. So, um, it's a good news, bad news. The really bad news is that Sung-mu who did not survive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The operation or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.897825629201736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a surgery for Sung-mu because there was a doctor at Severance who was American trained, could do the surgery, um, and he contributed his services. But there was all the, you know, the hospital bill, etcetera. So, um, it's a good news, bad news. The really bad news is that Sung-mu who did not survive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The operation or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He, his heart had, uh, atrophied too much. So that was devastating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'll bet that was."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5775625051873283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He, his heart had, uh, atrophied too much. So that was devastating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'll bet that was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And especially because this was on national news. So people actually saw this and knew this and that was not so pleasant. But as I said, we did raise a lot of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the rest of the money, we were able to fund three more children and they all lived. So. And it became an awareness on the part of the public that this could be done in Korea. I think there had always been the assumption that these kids had to go to the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh, interesting."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.9750694502081423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And especially because this was on national news. So people actually saw this and knew this and that was not so pleasant. But as I said, we did raise a lot of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the rest of the money, we were able to fund three more children and they all lived. So. And it became an awareness on the part of the public that this could be done in Korea. I think there had always been the assumption that these kids had to go to the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh, interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was a realization that the Korean medical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had their own capacity."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.19452161134238, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the rest of the money, we were able to fund three more children and they all lived. So. And it became an awareness on the part of the public that this could be done in Korea. I think there had always been the assumption that these kids had to go to the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh, interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was a realization that the Korean medical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had their own capacity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had their own capacity. And, um, so from that point of view, it was like, you know, we did, we did something that I think demonstrated to Korea that they had, they had this capacity. And the, the day of the actual walkathon where at the end of the day, when we were back at the health center, one of the health workers said, you know, we could organize something like this in the future if we needed to do that. And I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ding, ding! Ding, ding!"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.438357345935978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was a realization that the Korean medical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had their own capacity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had their own capacity. And, um, so from that point of view, it was like, you know, we did, we did something that I think demonstrated to Korea that they had, they had this capacity. And the, the day of the actual walkathon where at the end of the day, when we were back at the health center, one of the health workers said, you know, we could organize something like this in the future if we needed to do that. And I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ding, ding! Ding, ding!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what I said. That's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hear it."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7092859399288645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had their own capacity. And, um, so from that point of view, it was like, you know, we did, we did something that I think demonstrated to Korea that they had, they had this capacity. And the, the day of the actual walkathon where at the end of the day, when we were back at the health center, one of the health workers said, you know, we could organize something like this in the future if we needed to do that. And I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ding, ding! Ding, ding!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what I said. That's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hear it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've done our thing."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0103177110320716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what I said. That's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hear it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've done our thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's success, we can go home now. And that was right at the end. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's a nice way to sort of tie it up."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3447974567023016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've done our thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's success, we can go home now. And that was right at the end. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's a nice way to sort of tie it up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you reflect back on this, um, that's a positive thing. Were there any failures or regrets that you have from your time in the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.716441618558113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's success, we can go home now. And that was right at the end. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's a nice way to sort of tie it up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you reflect back on this, um, that's a positive thing. Were there any failures or regrets that you have from your time in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think when I first came back, I felt I felt like I was out of step with all of my colleagues. I think we all do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think so."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.353631627849522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think when I first came back, I felt I felt like I was out of step with all of my colleagues. I think we all do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Feel like that two years. Oh my God, everyone got married and finished their law degree and bought a house, for God's sakes, you know? And here I was still at the same place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think you feel a little out of sorts. Um. But what I've come to realize over time was that I had experiences that were, you know, incredible. And I caught up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right, right."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.600317733675613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, no, I don't, I don't have any, any regrets. I think I learned, uh, I learned a lot about myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned how to perhaps be a little bit more patient. You know, because you realize that getting mad or yelling, that's not going to get you what you want. So what do you have to do to get what you want? And, you know, and I think that, that sort of skill and that sort of awareness has helped me a lot with HVO."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Staff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As she runs out screaming. What would you say has been the big impact on your life if you can sort of package it in some way, of your experience in Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.111464148528459, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned how to perhaps be a little bit more patient. You know, because you realize that getting mad or yelling, that's not going to get you what you want. So what do you have to do to get what you want? And, you know, and I think that, that sort of skill and that sort of awareness has helped me a lot with HVO."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Staff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As she runs out screaming. What would you say has been the big impact on your life if you can sort of package it in some way, of your experience in Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it, it fundamentally changed what I thought I was going to do. I went into Peace Corps absolutely convinced that after my two years I would come back and, and pursue Asian studies, probably Korean history, and get a PhD. I mean, that was the plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the plan, right."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.568293498364954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As she runs out screaming. What would you say has been the big impact on your life if you can sort of package it in some way, of your experience in Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it, it fundamentally changed what I thought I was going to do. I went into Peace Corps absolutely convinced that after my two years I would come back and, and pursue Asian studies, probably Korean history, and get a PhD. I mean, that was the plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the plan, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And for me, going to Korea was part of that plan. This was going to give me an understanding of the culture, etcetera, to move me onto that path. About a year into the assignment, I realized I found this really interesting. And what I found interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This being what?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.075881664849949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it, it fundamentally changed what I thought I was going to do. I went into Peace Corps absolutely convinced that after my two years I would come back and, and pursue Asian studies, probably Korean history, and get a PhD. I mean, that was the plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the plan, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And for me, going to Korea was part of that plan. This was going to give me an understanding of the culture, etcetera, to move me onto that path. About a year into the assignment, I realized I found this really interesting. And what I found interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This being what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This working in the health center and working."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Working with the people."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.266520573888825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This working in the health center and working."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Working with the people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And what I found interesting was that what we were doing at the, at the field level, they didn't really know about at the, in Seoul, at the, at the ministry level. They didn't have a sense, I didn't think, of some of the issues that we faced. The Minister of Health at the time had a couple of lunches where he invited Peace Corps volunteers to come and have lunch with him because as he said, you'll tell me the truth. And he would just pepper us with questions about what we saw and what we thought the issues were. And I found that really interesting, to realize that I was being a conduit of information as opposed to their having."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "His own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His own system that he trusted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right, right."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.96280063765425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And what I found interesting was that what we were doing at the, at the field level, they didn't really know about at the, in Seoul, at the, at the ministry level. They didn't have a sense, I didn't think, of some of the issues that we faced. The Minister of Health at the time had a couple of lunches where he invited Peace Corps volunteers to come and have lunch with him because as he said, you'll tell me the truth. And he would just pepper us with questions about what we saw and what we thought the issues were. And I found that really interesting, to realize that I was being a conduit of information as opposed to their having."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "His own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His own system that he trusted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we had a closet filled with prenatal vitamins that we never gave out because we had to have an inventory that showed we had this inventory. We weren't going to get new ones. So, you know, I mean, so it's this. You know, I mean, it's just not a working system like that. So, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right, right."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.262716836610184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we had a closet filled with prenatal vitamins that we never gave out because we had to have an inventory that showed we had this inventory. We weren't going to get new ones. So, you know, I mean, so it's this. You know, I mean, it's just not a working system like that. So, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I found it really interesting. How do you, how do you get that information? How do you plan a project at a community level when you're in Seoul? How do you find out what's happening, what's working, what's not working? And then I sort of realized at some point that that sounded a lot like public health. So I completely came back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shifted gears."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shifted, and I applied to, what, three or four schools that, the last one being Hopkins. And I, I had the application sitting on my desk for days. I didn't apply because I thought, well, there's just no way. There's absolutely no way someone with a BA in Asian history is going to get into Hopkins. The family I was living with, the gal picked it up, mailed it, because she saw it there. And I said, oh my God, why did you do that? And she said, well, just assumed, sorry. Well, then I got accepted. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you major in maternal and child health there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.847463151789094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I found it really interesting. How do you, how do you get that information? How do you plan a project at a community level when you're in Seoul? How do you find out what's happening, what's working, what's not working? And then I sort of realized at some point that that sounded a lot like public health. So I completely came back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shifted gears."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shifted, and I applied to, what, three or four schools that, the last one being Hopkins. And I, I had the application sitting on my desk for days. I didn't apply because I thought, well, there's just no way. There's absolutely no way someone with a BA in Asian history is going to get into Hopkins. The family I was living with, the gal picked it up, mailed it, because she saw it there. And I said, oh my God, why did you do that? And she said, well, just assumed, sorry. Well, then I got accepted. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you major in maternal and child health there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So it just."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0829398515625424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. They called me in for an interview."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a whole day. I met the entire department and they were going to start a new master's degree in the department. And in the end, they offered two of us openings. So myself and a woman named Donna Petersen, who is currently the dean at the School of Public Health at the University of South Florida. So the two of us started this program together, and she stayed on and got her ScD."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah. So we were the guinea pigs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't that wonderful?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.806098582175978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah. So we were the guinea pigs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't that wonderful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was definitely, they were aiming at people who weren't coming in with the usual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Public health background. She had a liberal arts degree and as well as me. And so that was what they were looking for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the other hand, you had all that practical experience of having been in a country and seeing."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.228998424639975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was definitely, they were aiming at people who weren't coming in with the usual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Public health background. She had a liberal arts degree and as well as me. And so that was what they were looking for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the other hand, you had all that practical experience of having been in a country and seeing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see yourself then not only going into public health but into the international health side of it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0576110077365914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I was very interested in the international side of it. And as you know, I interned at NCIH [National Council for International Health]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That being part of my international interest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also realized, though, at that time, partly with parents and their needs, etcetera, that I probably wasn't going to be going overseas and living. I think I knew that would be too challenging, especially for my mother. So I was trying to figure out a way where I could still be doing international but basically be stateside. And eventually what it evolved to was HVO, which worked out very nicely in terms of all my touch points. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a little bit about Peace Corps having these three goals of providing technical assistance, which you've talked about a lot, and then to promote a better understanding of Americans. Do you think you're being in Korea and these rural areas help them understand Americans better?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.397345564151768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That being part of my international interest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also realized, though, at that time, partly with parents and their needs, etcetera, that I probably wasn't going to be going overseas and living. I think I knew that would be too challenging, especially for my mother. So I was trying to figure out a way where I could still be doing international but basically be stateside. And eventually what it evolved to was HVO, which worked out very nicely in terms of all my touch points. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a little bit about Peace Corps having these three goals of providing technical assistance, which you've talked about a lot, and then to promote a better understanding of Americans. Do you think you're being in Korea and these rural areas help them understand Americans better?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. Do I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9596858816688494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. Do I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, the joke was, you know how everyone thinks all Koreans look alike. The joke is the Koreans think we all alike. And I remember saying to one of my colleagues, how can you think that they're tall people, short people, red hair. And they said, no, you all look alike. He said, But. But this was the end of my service. He said, I've now met a lot of your friends and I know you. And he said, I now see you as people. So, I mean, he really he was being very sincere when he said. And I think that's that what is what happens. You become real and suddenly all the assumptions that people have. I remember inviting a whole group of women over to our little two room, and they come in and they're looking through everything. They're looking to see how where the clothes are and, you know, opening things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not modest."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not, not shy at all. And they were like, Oh, you're so clean. Well, yeah. What do you mean? Well, you fold things. Well, yeah. Would you expect that wasn't what they were? They would. They didn't know what to expect, but they we were more organized and cleaner and ready than they thought. And, you know, and it was kind of like you didn't you didn't know if you should be upset or happy. You know, you passed inspection. Why would they think we wouldn't be?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. So looking back now at Peace Corps and where you are now, what do you think have been some of the longer term impacts resulting from your being in the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.2885398685209437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, the joke was, you know how everyone thinks all Koreans look alike. The joke is the Koreans think we all alike. And I remember saying to one of my colleagues, how can you think that they're tall people, short people, red hair. And they said, no, you all look alike. He said, But. But this was the end of my service. He said, I've now met a lot of your friends and I know you. And he said, I now see you as people. So, I mean, he really he was being very sincere when he said. And I think that's that what is what happens. You become real and suddenly all the assumptions that people have. I remember inviting a whole group of women over to our little two room, and they come in and they're looking through everything. They're looking to see how where the clothes are and, you know, opening things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not modest."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not, not shy at all. And they were like, Oh, you're so clean. Well, yeah. What do you mean? Well, you fold things. Well, yeah. Would you expect that wasn't what they were? They would. They didn't know what to expect, but they we were more organized and cleaner and ready than they thought. And, you know, and it was kind of like you didn't you didn't know if you should be upset or happy. You know, you passed inspection. Why would they think we wouldn't be?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. So looking back now at Peace Corps and where you are now, what do you think have been some of the longer term impacts resulting from your being in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, for me personally?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For you personally."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5428220761343816, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not, not shy at all. And they were like, Oh, you're so clean. Well, yeah. What do you mean? Well, you fold things. Well, yeah. Would you expect that wasn't what they were? They would. They didn't know what to expect, but they we were more organized and cleaner and ready than they thought. And, you know, and it was kind of like you didn't you didn't know if you should be upset or happy. You know, you passed inspection. Why would they think we wouldn't be?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. So looking back now at Peace Corps and where you are now, what do you think have been some of the longer term impacts resulting from your being in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, for me personally?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For you personally."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, certainly my career choice. I think without Peace Corps, maybe the circumstances would have. Well, I would probably have never gone into public health and then that whole chain of activities wouldn't have happened. But I think that what I'm doing here at HVO is to a large extent impacted by the lessons I learned in Peace Corps. I think volunteers can be useful, but I think you can't just throw a volunteer out there. You have to, you have to get the right volunteer. You have to design the project. You have to know what is expected of them. You have to provide support to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm, mm hmm."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.825357862371535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, for me personally?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For you personally."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, certainly my career choice. I think without Peace Corps, maybe the circumstances would have. Well, I would probably have never gone into public health and then that whole chain of activities wouldn't have happened. But I think that what I'm doing here at HVO is to a large extent impacted by the lessons I learned in Peace Corps. I think volunteers can be useful, but I think you can't just throw a volunteer out there. You have to, you have to get the right volunteer. You have to design the project. You have to know what is expected of them. You have to provide support to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm, mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it can be all kinds of different levels of support. But they can do a lot. If, if you've thought of all of that that goes around them. And that's probably the biggest takeaway that I had from my time as a volunteer. One of the things I find interesting when I talked to people who served in other countries is how often they would talk about Peace Corps staff as being a hindrance or, or not helping. And one of the things about Peace Corps career staff was my country director was incredibly engaged and supportive and helpful. All the staff were there, were just really there to help you if you needed help and to give you feedback and guidance. And so I never had this sense of, you know, staff. And so I looked at the staff in Seoul as being our partners and our friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they Americans or Koreans or a mix or how did that work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.13928651374615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, certainly my career choice. I think without Peace Corps, maybe the circumstances would have. Well, I would probably have never gone into public health and then that whole chain of activities wouldn't have happened. But I think that what I'm doing here at HVO is to a large extent impacted by the lessons I learned in Peace Corps. I think volunteers can be useful, but I think you can't just throw a volunteer out there. You have to, you have to get the right volunteer. You have to design the project. You have to know what is expected of them. You have to provide support to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm, mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it can be all kinds of different levels of support. But they can do a lot. If, if you've thought of all of that that goes around them. And that's probably the biggest takeaway that I had from my time as a volunteer. One of the things I find interesting when I talked to people who served in other countries is how often they would talk about Peace Corps staff as being a hindrance or, or not helping. And one of the things about Peace Corps career staff was my country director was incredibly engaged and supportive and helpful. All the staff were there, were just really there to help you if you needed help and to give you feedback and guidance. And so I never had this sense of, you know, staff. And so I looked at the staff in Seoul as being our partners and our friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they Americans or Koreans or a mix or how did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Primarily Korean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Primarily Korean? Even the director?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.8756623626495674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Primarily Korean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Primarily Korean? Even the director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the director was American, but all the director and then we had an APCD."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then all the other staff were Korean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were Korean. Interesting."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.439089336604404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then all the other staff were Korean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were Korean. Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's interesting now, all these years later, I see a lot of them. And I mean, Peace Corps was as important to them as it was to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The Peace Corps, the Korean Peace Corps staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7100992628937823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's interesting now, all these years later, I see a lot of them. And I mean, Peace Corps was as important to them as it was to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The Peace Corps, the Korean Peace Corps staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They love their affiliation and their time with Peace Corps. They love the volunteers. These are incredibly deep relationships."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have they come over to the United States or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8960513075655876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Korean government has been doing a series of revisits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where they have invited all former Peace Corps volunteers to come back. You have to pay your way to Korea. But then when you get there, they treat you for a whole week of basically a thank you trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they take you back to your site. They do a whole range of things. It's an amazing thing. I've, I've been on my thank you trip and I've helped organize five others at this point. And the Peace Corps language teachers and the Peace Corps staff, we always try and make sure that they're invited to one of the events. And when they see someone who was one of their students, or in the case of staff, someone that they worked with, I mean, it is, you would think that, you know, blood relatives or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the first time I've heard about that. I don't know, do other countries do that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.217834786183986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where they have invited all former Peace Corps volunteers to come back. You have to pay your way to Korea. But then when you get there, they treat you for a whole week of basically a thank you trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they take you back to your site. They do a whole range of things. It's an amazing thing. I've, I've been on my thank you trip and I've helped organize five others at this point. And the Peace Corps language teachers and the Peace Corps staff, we always try and make sure that they're invited to one of the events. And when they see someone who was one of their students, or in the case of staff, someone that they worked with, I mean, it is, you would think that, you know, blood relatives or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the first time I've heard about that. I don't know, do other countries do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know, I've never heard that. I mean, I want to encourage my friends in Kenya do, do that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5753719846488736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they take you back to your site. They do a whole range of things. It's an amazing thing. I've, I've been on my thank you trip and I've helped organize five others at this point. And the Peace Corps language teachers and the Peace Corps staff, we always try and make sure that they're invited to one of the events. And when they see someone who was one of their students, or in the case of staff, someone that they worked with, I mean, it is, you would think that, you know, blood relatives or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the first time I've heard about that. I don't know, do other countries do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know, I've never heard that. I mean, I want to encourage my friends in Kenya do, do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's, it's, it's an amazing thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a very nice, it's a very nice acknowledgment."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9726355384987486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know, I've never heard that. I mean, I want to encourage my friends in Kenya do, do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's, it's, it's an amazing thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a very nice, it's a very nice acknowledgment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, you would think they'd pick up that or pick that up. Um, my Pennsylvania Dutch came out the wrong way there, but you'd think they'd pick that up on the headquarters here as something to build relationships with the ambassador. And I mean, that's a nice ongoing package."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4140394872208315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's, it's, it's an amazing thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a very nice, it's a very nice acknowledgment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, you would think they'd pick up that or pick that up. Um, my Pennsylvania Dutch came out the wrong way there, but you'd think they'd pick that up on the headquarters here as something to build relationships with the ambassador. And I mean, that's a nice ongoing package."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a really, very interesting. I've learned something. I mean, I've learned a lot, but I mean, I'd never heard that one before."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.054923850783034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think at this point we've had about 450 volunteers who have gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it is, you know, even if you're a person, like this most recent trip, several of the people have made Korea their careers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a professor or whatever. So they've gone back on business trips. But even for them to go back in this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a different context."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.727693167536704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it is, you know, even if you're a person, like this most recent trip, several of the people have made Korea their careers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a professor or whatever. So they've gone back on business trips. But even for them to go back in this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a different context."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you context."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. I think that's what's nice. Wow."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.972460700662597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you context."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. I think that's what's nice. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was very sad this last trip that happened. I couldn't go, I just had too much going on. But I helped organize it. But my professor from UVA, K-1 and his wife, they were on the trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was like, ah, that would have been a great time to spend a few minutes with Jim Baxter 40 years on, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long are these? Is it a week long?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.413845222958441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was very sad this last trip that happened. I couldn't go, I just had too much going on. But I helped organize it. But my professor from UVA, K-1 and his wife, they were on the trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was like, ah, that would have been a great time to spend a few minutes with Jim Baxter 40 years on, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long are these? Is it a week long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a week long trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Event kind of thing."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.904272469953823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was like, ah, that would have been a great time to spend a few minutes with Jim Baxter 40 years on, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long are these? Is it a week long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a week long trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Event kind of thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you pay your way, and once you get there, they pick up a hotel."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.449191633282026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a week long trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Event kind of thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you pay your way, and once you get there, they pick up a hotel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they put you up in this very nice hotel in Seoul, and then they arrange for you to go back to your town. So, like, for me, I, um, Linda and I were. And Linda's daughter came so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how nice."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.9920324187682095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they flew us from Seoul down to Sacheon, and we're like, we're flying? We went with an interpreter and I thought, wow! We were picked up. And then they drove us all around and then we ended up in our town. And I realized later that why they did it that way. We said we really wanted to see some of the region around Goseong where we used to go home visiting because it was so beautiful, just stunning. So by picking us up in Sacheon they could do the coastal route."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then take us into Goseong. And then we go to the health center, which has moved to a completely different part of town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we walk in and the director of the health center looks up. My maternal child health center is gone. He looks up and he says, Linda Nancy? And we said, yes, we're Linda and Nancy. And he thought Linda Nancy was one person. So here he had two and then a daughter. But we had brought some photo albums."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aw, how cute."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.435591576409121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then take us into Goseong. And then we go to the health center, which has moved to a completely different part of town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we walk in and the director of the health center looks up. My maternal child health center is gone. He looks up and he says, Linda Nancy? And we said, yes, we're Linda and Nancy. And he thought Linda Nancy was one person. So here he had two and then a daughter. But we had brought some photo albums."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aw, how cute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we got the photo album out. He got a cell phone and he started calling. And within 20 minutes we had eight or nine people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A reunion, how nice."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.928435084899023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we walk in and the director of the health center looks up. My maternal child health center is gone. He looks up and he says, Linda Nancy? And we said, yes, we're Linda and Nancy. And he thought Linda Nancy was one person. So here he had two and then a daughter. But we had brought some photo albums."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aw, how cute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we got the photo album out. He got a cell phone and he started calling. And within 20 minutes we had eight or nine people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A reunion, how nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was really something. You know, people were crying because they had no idea we were coming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a pleasant surprise. Do you, on a regular basis, aside from a trip like that, do you keep in touch with a few people back there or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.973376648023485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was really something. You know, people were crying because they had no idea we were coming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a pleasant surprise. Do you, on a regular basis, aside from a trip like that, do you keep in touch with a few people back there or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I keep in touch with a couple of former volunteers who are still there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People in my town, it's kind of hard. Well, they've all moved, so I do like WhatsApp occasionally. And you know, it's mainly photos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't do any teaching of students or anything like that that would?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.525974053359428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I keep in touch with a couple of former volunteers who are still there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People in my town, it's kind of hard. Well, they've all moved, so I do like WhatsApp occasionally. And you know, it's mainly photos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't do any teaching of students or anything like that that would?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah. No, I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how about your supervisor, Mrs. Choe?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.8066378370660305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People in my town, it's kind of hard. Well, they've all moved, so I do like WhatsApp occasionally. And you know, it's mainly photos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't do any teaching of students or anything like that that would?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah. No, I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how about your supervisor, Mrs. Choe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mrs. Choe passed away a few years ago, so she was, she was 60 at the time that I was there in '79 so. I did see her a couple of times after I finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you continue your involvement with the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0073753745178116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah. No, I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how about your supervisor, Mrs. Choe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mrs. Choe passed away a few years ago, so she was, she was 60 at the time that I was there in '79 so. I did see her a couple of times after I finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you continue your involvement with the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm very involved with the Friends of Korea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. The affiliate."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4782412031084093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm very involved with the Friends of Korea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. The affiliate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The affiliate group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was president. Yes, I was brought on the board and became president very quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that. They see a live, a live one."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7536013367871215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The affiliate group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was president. Yes, I was brought on the board and became president very quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that. They see a live, a live one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was one of those things where I run an organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you had an."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3995078231939773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was one of those things where I run an organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you had an."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The intuitive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the nuts and bolts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew what needed to be done."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:457", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.75709634912357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which takes me out of some of that stuff. But, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The bank is across the street. The post office is down the way. I handle the website. So sort of, a lot of the things that just keep things running along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm handling and I find that fun. And I also didn't, didn't want to see it sort of spin down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Well, look, just in wrapping it up then, are there any other things or any sort of overall thought you have about the value of Peace Corps and the future of the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.290941493996666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, I think the Peace Corps for individuals on both sides, I think it's, it's an amazing eye-opening experience, even for someone who'd lived overseas. I mean, I did 16 schools in 12 years, so I, I moved a lot. I went to a lot of countries and, you know, I did that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But still, what you learn in the Peace Corps when you're there and you really have a role and you're, you're really working alongside people, be it in education or health or whatever, um, just gives you a completely different perspective. And I think, I think it helps. There's a whole set of cross-cultural skills and communication skills, etcetera, that that develops. I think the people to people thing, you know, is on both sides. I, I'm amazed sometimes. I met a Korean woman here who started to cry at the thought that I had done Peace Corps in her country. And I said, but, I said, except for the winters, which were kind of difficult, otherwise it was a wonderful, wonderful experience. And she said, but I'm crying because I can't believe, why would you come to our country when it was so poor?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was like, well, you know, I did. I didn't even think about it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right, right."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5314410000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's why she. And that was, that had to be 50 years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the guy who did the interview called me up and said, you're going to love this story, Nancy. But I think that's true. I mean, there's, there are these, these moments that I think crystallize for people. I hope that this is transmitted to children. One of the women that I worked with in Korea, there was a museum exhibit about Peace Corps Korea at the Museum of Contemporary History. So Kang Young, who was a health worker down in our town, she came with us to see the exhibit and brought her son, who was 32. He had no idea his mother had been a TB worker out in the country. He went through this exhibit and said, you did this? Because she was like, oh, here are the forms. This is, this is what Linda and I did, this is what Nancy did, you know. And he was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Blown away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Blown away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't that interesting."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5904900000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the guy who did the interview called me up and said, you're going to love this story, Nancy. But I think that's true. I mean, there's, there are these, these moments that I think crystallize for people. I hope that this is transmitted to children. One of the women that I worked with in Korea, there was a museum exhibit about Peace Corps Korea at the Museum of Contemporary History. So Kang Young, who was a health worker down in our town, she came with us to see the exhibit and brought her son, who was 32. He had no idea his mother had been a TB worker out in the country. He went through this exhibit and said, you did this? Because she was like, oh, here are the forms. This is, this is what Linda and I did, this is what Nancy did, you know. And he was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Blown away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Blown away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't that interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I tend to think that a lot of people aren't as familiar with the Peace Corps today."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Blown away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't that interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I tend to think that a lot of people aren't as familiar with the Peace Corps today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I don't know why. Well, I guess part of it, I don't see a lot of marketing."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I tend to think that a lot of people aren't as familiar with the Peace Corps today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I don't know why. Well, I guess part of it, I don't see a lot of marketing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don't see the ads, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I don't see."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we do, I have been very successful. Quite a few of them have gone on to be volunteers. Um. So, but, you know, that's a subset."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I don't know. I had a friend who was a country director. He was Peace Corps Korea with me and went on to a State Department career and then did a stint as country director. And he talked about, um, he was very concerned about the, the constant interaction of the volunteers with home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he talked about this technology piece and he felt it really was almost a hindrance to their really being in the here and now in Ethiopia, you know, because they were constantly tweeting and Facebooking or Instagramming or whatever. And I think, that is, as I said, that's the one thing that I, I don't see how you can change it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. It's part of today's life."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00147:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I don't know. I had a friend who was a country director. He was Peace Corps Korea with me and went on to a State Department career and then did a stint as country director. And he talked about, um, he was very concerned about the, the constant interaction of the volunteers with home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he talked about this technology piece and he felt it really was almost a hindrance to their really being in the here and now in Ethiopia, you know, because they were constantly tweeting and Facebooking or Instagramming or whatever. And I think, that is, as I said, that's the one thing that I, I don't see how you can change it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. It's part of today's life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it is, it has an impact, I think, on the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you very much, Nancy, and we appreciate this. And it will now go into the archives."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 29.95964314552143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Christeen Pusch, I was in Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year did you serve?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "2005 to 2007."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Municipal development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So going back to kind of the beginning of why you wanted to join Peace Corps, where did you hear about Peace Corps? What made you want to join?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 17.732936828357143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "2005 to 2007."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Municipal development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So going back to kind of the beginning of why you wanted to join Peace Corps, where did you hear about Peace Corps? What made you want to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I remember my senior year of high school, one of our teachers actually decided to join the Peace Corps the year after I graduated, and she was really excited about it. At that time, it wasn't anything that occurred to me. But then my final semester of college, all my friends had studied abroad, so I thought I wanted to do something like that too. So I spent a semester at American University in D.C., and I wanted to go on the one where we would travel far away. So I went to, it was International Environmental Development Seminar, and we went to South Africa for a month for that. And our, one of our professors there had done Peace Corps and he showed us a video and really was promoting it. And at that point, I was like, wow, that'd be really neat. But it took me almost a year to get up the guts to apply. So I kind of just lounged around for a year after college and then finally applied.\n\nUm, but the thing is too, I grew up, my, both my parents are German immigrants. So I actually learned German before I learned English and spent quite a bit of my childhood there. And so I think, I had actually have a lot of culture shock when I was younger. But I think that actually, it piqued my interest in travel. But I think also, um, kind of getting, jumping ahead a little bit. But I think, um, part of like the Peace Corps, what I got out of it too was just that understanding of where I stood, where I, where I fit in, I think, because part of it I always felt like an outsider because of culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's a really interesting reason to like consider going into Peace Corps. What, when you applied, did you have a concept of where you wanted to go, what you want to do, what it was going to be like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.722821438075641, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you know, I mean, I think another reason for wanting to apply was just I thought, I thought magically I would gain all these skill sets. So that was, you know, you don't gain the skill sets unless you actually really try and put something into it. But yeah, I mean, I was open. A lot of my friends from college were actually, like my, two of my best friends were from Hong Kong and I had a lot of friends from there. And so I kind of thought it would be interesting to go to Asia. The lady who interviewed me had actually gone to Poland and we spoke a lot about Eastern Europe and we spoke about her experience as well. And so initially when I had the interview, it looked like I was going to go to Eastern Europe. And so it was only when I called to check up on my application like months later or something, they said they had an opening in Latin America. And my only reason for wanting to go to Latin America is I thought I would improve my Spanish and then I thought that would make me more marketable. And I thought I thought that would be useful in the future."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your application process like? You said it took several months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, for me it was pretty easy. I think maybe other times it's a little bit more rigorous. I think at the time when I was applying, it sounded more that a lot of people, when they had problems, it was more for medical reasons. And I didn't really ever have any medical issues. So it was pretty much just going through the steps and then I was accepted. I don't think they really denied anyone at that time for reasons other than medical reasons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year was that that you were applying?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.247579375639601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your application process like? You said it took several months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, for me it was pretty easy. I think maybe other times it's a little bit more rigorous. I think at the time when I was applying, it sounded more that a lot of people, when they had problems, it was more for medical reasons. And I didn't really ever have any medical issues. So it was pretty much just going through the steps and then I was accepted. I don't think they really denied anyone at that time for reasons other than medical reasons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year was that that you were applying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "2005. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you, so you applied in 2005. How long did it take you from your application to staging?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.719532639599556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, for me it was pretty easy. I think maybe other times it's a little bit more rigorous. I think at the time when I was applying, it sounded more that a lot of people, when they had problems, it was more for medical reasons. And I didn't really ever have any medical issues. So it was pretty much just going through the steps and then I was accepted. I don't think they really denied anyone at that time for reasons other than medical reasons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year was that that you were applying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "2005. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you, so you applied in 2005. How long did it take you from your application to staging?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember exactly, but I think it was a few weeks. A few months, sorry. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you remember what month you left? And where are you met your group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.021702932888395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "2005. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you, so you applied in 2005. How long did it take you from your application to staging?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember exactly, but I think it was a few weeks. A few months, sorry. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you remember what month you left? And where are you met your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I left in September, so actually we, our, um. We went to D.C. September 19th. And we landed in Honduras September 21st, 2005."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What was your group like when you met them at staging?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.913003258764883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember exactly, but I think it was a few weeks. A few months, sorry. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you remember what month you left? And where are you met your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I left in September, so actually we, our, um. We went to D.C. September 19th. And we landed in Honduras September 21st, 2005."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What was your group like when you met them at staging?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great. I actually missed a day of staging because I was living in Los Angeles before joining Peace Corps, and so I'm from outside Dallas. So I drove from LA to Dallas and got a speeding ticket on the way, one of two speeding tickets in eastern California. There's just nothing going on. And so I was bored and wanted to get there faster. But because I had the pending ticket, I had to make lots of phone calls to try to get that the process sped up and paid before I left the country. Because I couldn't leave otherwise. So, yeah. But yeah, no, I mean, um, my roommate in staging was actually Katie Long, who you've met, and she was really nice. You know, she's a very friendly person. So, yeah, we got along. But yeah, I think I was a little freaked out too, obviously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's kind of a traumatic thing to happen right before you were leaving."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.903336954183203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I left in September, so actually we, our, um. We went to D.C. September 19th. And we landed in Honduras September 21st, 2005."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What was your group like when you met them at staging?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great. I actually missed a day of staging because I was living in Los Angeles before joining Peace Corps, and so I'm from outside Dallas. So I drove from LA to Dallas and got a speeding ticket on the way, one of two speeding tickets in eastern California. There's just nothing going on. And so I was bored and wanted to get there faster. But because I had the pending ticket, I had to make lots of phone calls to try to get that the process sped up and paid before I left the country. Because I couldn't leave otherwise. So, yeah. But yeah, no, I mean, um, my roommate in staging was actually Katie Long, who you've met, and she was really nice. You know, she's a very friendly person. So, yeah, we got along. But yeah, I think I was a little freaked out too, obviously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's kind of a traumatic thing to happen right before you were leaving."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no. But just even just leaving the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Yeah. What, how many people were in your group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.781485504648003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great. I actually missed a day of staging because I was living in Los Angeles before joining Peace Corps, and so I'm from outside Dallas. So I drove from LA to Dallas and got a speeding ticket on the way, one of two speeding tickets in eastern California. There's just nothing going on. And so I was bored and wanted to get there faster. But because I had the pending ticket, I had to make lots of phone calls to try to get that the process sped up and paid before I left the country. Because I couldn't leave otherwise. So, yeah. But yeah, no, I mean, um, my roommate in staging was actually Katie Long, who you've met, and she was really nice. You know, she's a very friendly person. So, yeah, we got along. But yeah, I think I was a little freaked out too, obviously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's kind of a traumatic thing to happen right before you were leaving."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no. But just even just leaving the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Yeah. What, how many people were in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think the people, so we had. There was municipal development and there were youth development or something like that. And there were like about 30 of us total. And I think in D.C., I think there were some people there who were going to Guatemala or El Salvador as well. So we had something to do with them. But not too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why were you picked for municipal development?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.757206116275558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no. But just even just leaving the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Yeah. What, how many people were in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think the people, so we had. There was municipal development and there were youth development or something like that. And there were like about 30 of us total. And I think in D.C., I think there were some people there who were going to Guatemala or El Salvador as well. So we had something to do with them. But not too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why were you picked for municipal development?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a degree in planning and development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is a great criteria."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.841340129195064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think the people, so we had. There was municipal development and there were youth development or something like that. And there were like about 30 of us total. And I think in D.C., I think there were some people there who were going to Guatemala or El Salvador as well. So we had something to do with them. But not too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why were you picked for municipal development?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a degree in planning and development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is a great criteria."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Although I'm not sure that that qualified me. But yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your first impressions when you stepped off the plane?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.915234727401312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Although I'm not sure that that qualified me. But yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your first impressions when you stepped off the plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, well, I remember, I think at the airport there was some guy who just kind of picked up my bag and was trying to take it, but he wasn't trying to steal it or anything. He was just trying to take it to his taxi so that he would get the business. And there was someone who had to kind of, one of the trainers kind of stopped him and took the bag from him, like, no, no, she needs that. You don't need it. Yeah. So just, yeah, I mean, that experience. I mean, I had traveled quite a bit, as I said, I had gone to South Africa, I had been to Hong Kong to visit my friends. I'd been to Mexico a few times, so it wasn't anything I had never seen before. And I do know that, I mean, I had Spanish in high school, but I never took it in college. So my Spanish level wasn't the best.\n\nAnd so the first day we got there, we were already staying with host families. And I just remember they were talking to us or to me, and I didn't understand half of what they were saying. And they kept on calling me esperante. And I was like, what? And I guess that's a trainee, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so kind of and, you know, they showed me to, they were really nice and they showed me a book of all the old esperantes. And I was just like, oh, okay, this is, this makes sense. And, um. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you with the training family? You got off the plane and they took you to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.018808305433717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so kind of and, you know, they showed me to, they were really nice and they showed me a book of all the old esperantes. And I was just like, oh, okay, this is, this makes sense. And, um. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you with the training family? You got off the plane and they took you to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, so we got off the plane and then we all went to the training center and then the host families were all there and then they took us to their homes. Yeah, immediately. Yeah. Um, which was probably good. And then, I mean, I love the town where we were. It was just a really pretty scenic town. I mean, very, very tranquil, you know, not much going on, but also in the mountains, that's one thing. Honduras has a lot of mountains. And it would be get really pretty because you'd see all the clouds up in the mountains and stuff. Very green at times, right? They had rainy season and dry season. So especially during the rainy season, it would be really green."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Where was the, and that's where the training center was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In Saint Lucia, outside Tegucigalpa, which is the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far or how far was the drive?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.020898117148574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, so we got off the plane and then we all went to the training center and then the host families were all there and then they took us to their homes. Yeah, immediately. Yeah. Um, which was probably good. And then, I mean, I love the town where we were. It was just a really pretty scenic town. I mean, very, very tranquil, you know, not much going on, but also in the mountains, that's one thing. Honduras has a lot of mountains. And it would be get really pretty because you'd see all the clouds up in the mountains and stuff. Very green at times, right? They had rainy season and dry season. So especially during the rainy season, it would be really green."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Where was the, and that's where the training center was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In Saint Lucia, outside Tegucigalpa, which is the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far or how far was the drive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd say half an hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it was close."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.134331241276193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In Saint Lucia, outside Tegucigalpa, which is the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far or how far was the drive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd say half an hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it was close."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or something like that. Yeah, not far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And your host family there had had trainees before, esperantes before?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.149256934751325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd say half an hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it was close."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or something like that. Yeah, not far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And your host family there had had trainees before, esperantes before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. And so I think one of my favorite memories there was we would, uh, there were a lot of little kids. And so I feel like, I don't know if other people's experience is like this, but I think sometimes you make friends with people of different ages just because there aren't really, you know, you're lonely for friends or, you know, but they were really nice too. And so we would just kind of have, uh, dance parties to Britney Spears and Kumbia Kings. So like a mix of everything. Um, so, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How long were you there at the training with your family and the training center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.832507705279249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or something like that. Yeah, not far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And your host family there had had trainees before, esperantes before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. And so I think one of my favorite memories there was we would, uh, there were a lot of little kids. And so I feel like, I don't know if other people's experience is like this, but I think sometimes you make friends with people of different ages just because there aren't really, you know, you're lonely for friends or, you know, but they were really nice too. And so we would just kind of have, uh, dance parties to Britney Spears and Kumbia Kings. So like a mix of everything. Um, so, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How long were you there at the training with your family and the training center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had training for three months. I think we did two months there, and then we had definitely a month somewhere else, in La Esperanza, which was closer to actually the site where I ended up later on. And then in La Esperanza, that was more, we had, we were separated. So when we were in Santa Lucia, we were with the youth development and then in La Esperanza it was just the municipal development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you then split up by sector."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.591675228088055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. And so I think one of my favorite memories there was we would, uh, there were a lot of little kids. And so I feel like, I don't know if other people's experience is like this, but I think sometimes you make friends with people of different ages just because there aren't really, you know, you're lonely for friends or, you know, but they were really nice too. And so we would just kind of have, uh, dance parties to Britney Spears and Kumbia Kings. So like a mix of everything. Um, so, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How long were you there at the training with your family and the training center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had training for three months. I think we did two months there, and then we had definitely a month somewhere else, in La Esperanza, which was closer to actually the site where I ended up later on. And then in La Esperanza, that was more, we had, we were separated. So when we were in Santa Lucia, we were with the youth development and then in La Esperanza it was just the municipal development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you then split up by sector."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of them, how many of you all were there in the training group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.435194697875616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had training for three months. I think we did two months there, and then we had definitely a month somewhere else, in La Esperanza, which was closer to actually the site where I ended up later on. And then in La Esperanza, that was more, we had, we were separated. So when we were in Santa Lucia, we were with the youth development and then in La Esperanza it was just the municipal development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you then split up by sector."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of them, how many of you all were there in the training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think it was about 30, just over 30 for both groups. So I would say about half half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so 15?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.37243855319513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of them, how many of you all were there in the training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think it was about 30, just over 30 for both groups. So I would say about half half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so 15?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, that's small."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.413820614661255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think it was about 30, just over 30 for both groups. So I would say about half half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so 15?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, that's small."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, um, you mentioned your first roommate, Katie Long. What, um, who, you know, did you end up being very close? Did you bond with everybody there at training or was everybody close or were you more focused on getting to know the language and your host family and?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.856568660075622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, um, you mentioned your first roommate, Katie Long. What, um, who, you know, did you end up being very close? Did you bond with everybody there at training or was everybody close or were you more focused on getting to know the language and your host family and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I mean, I think everyone was like a good support system. I think later on I ended up kind of being the recluse who stayed at site really a lot. So I think maybe I didn't bond as much as others, as others did. But yeah, I think. It is a very intense experience, and when you have such an intense experience, I think you just, you bond. You're kind of almost forced to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just to have that support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, I know the feeling. What was your training like? What did you learn while you were there for your couple of months?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.173965177861803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I mean, I think everyone was like a good support system. I think later on I ended up kind of being the recluse who stayed at site really a lot. So I think maybe I didn't bond as much as others, as others did. But yeah, I think. It is a very intense experience, and when you have such an intense experience, I think you just, you bond. You're kind of almost forced to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just to have that support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, I know the feeling. What was your training like? What did you learn while you were there for your couple of months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't really, um, I learned Spanish. I don't remember. I think we went to some municipalities. But, you know, I was looking over questions before, and I think that's something that maybe could have been improved at the time, you know. I think later on they did do more projects and stuff. Um, but yeah, I mean, I remember the Spanish, um. We had people from Honduras teaching the Spanish classes, and I think they didn't speak much English, so it was almost purely in Spanish. And what they did was we all took a test and then we would, we were grouped with people of our like of similar level. So I was with two other people learning Spanish. So it was almost like one-on-one Spanish class. And then you're with the family as well. So I think, I mean, you learn very quickly. You're forced to. I mean, one of the things my dad always used to say, he learned English in six weeks. Don't believe him quite. But I think you do learn when you're forced to like that. You do learn a language pretty quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What were the levels of Spanish coming in? And were you and where did you fit in that kind of ranking?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.803025724526448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean the site?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the process for like finding out? Did you find out in advance? Did they surprise you with it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, I think it was just a few weeks. I mean, a week or two before we got to site. One of the things is we had a site visit beforehand. And my site visit and my counterpart were both in the neighboring town. And so, um, with, you know, there was another volunteer over there too. So I did all that over there. And then when I got to site, it was like right around Christmas time which is vacation. And I had never met anyone else. And, and no, I didn't. My counterpart wasn't there. So I think that is the loneliest I've ever felt. That is the only time where I just needed to talk to anyone. I mean, it was like days where, like, the only conversation I had with anyone was like the lady at the corner store buying toilet paper and food with my broken Spanish. So that's, yeah, that was again, very intense.\n\nAnd, you know, it was, you know, we had cell phones, but you could only text. And there was an internet cafe. But, you know, I mean, you could make a call, but it would've been really crazy expensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, just sitting, I mean, I was just sitting in my house, cleaning it, you know, preparing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who brought you to, how did you find your house? Who brought you to site, did somebody?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.114473027251607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, I think it was just a few weeks. I mean, a week or two before we got to site. One of the things is we had a site visit beforehand. And my site visit and my counterpart were both in the neighboring town. And so, um, with, you know, there was another volunteer over there too. So I did all that over there. And then when I got to site, it was like right around Christmas time which is vacation. And I had never met anyone else. And, and no, I didn't. My counterpart wasn't there. So I think that is the loneliest I've ever felt. That is the only time where I just needed to talk to anyone. I mean, it was like days where, like, the only conversation I had with anyone was like the lady at the corner store buying toilet paper and food with my broken Spanish. So that's, yeah, that was again, very intense.\n\nAnd, you know, it was, you know, we had cell phones, but you could only text. And there was an internet cafe. But, you know, I mean, you could make a call, but it would've been really crazy expensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, just sitting, I mean, I was just sitting in my house, cleaning it, you know, preparing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who brought you to, how did you find your house? Who brought you to site, did somebody?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess one of the Peace Corps, you know, I don't even remember, but I think it was someone with Peace Corps. Yeah. You know, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far away was your site from the training site? You said it was close."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.127192252501786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, just sitting, I mean, I was just sitting in my house, cleaning it, you know, preparing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who brought you to, how did you find your house? Who brought you to site, did somebody?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess one of the Peace Corps, you know, I don't even remember, but I think it was someone with Peace Corps. Yeah. You know, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far away was your site from the training site? You said it was close."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. My, the site where I was stationed was actually pretty far away. So I was actually just like 30 minutes away from El Salvador. And again, distances aren't. Honduras is a very small country. But because, like, so, okay, sorry. To get to La Esperanza was probably like a three hour bus ride. And then to get down to my town was another 3 or 4 hours. The thing is, it was only, I think it was 89 kilometers. But like but because the roads aren't paved and you're in like the mountains and stuff, you have to take a bus and the bus is very slow. So yeah, I mean, it was always a day trip and then you don't have your own vehicle, so you have to go when the bus goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So how did you, do you remember a Peace Corp staff or somebody like kind of escorted you down there and helped you get there or did they provide you a bus ticket?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.502706484570105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. My, the site where I was stationed was actually pretty far away. So I was actually just like 30 minutes away from El Salvador. And again, distances aren't. Honduras is a very small country. But because, like, so, okay, sorry. To get to La Esperanza was probably like a three hour bus ride. And then to get down to my town was another 3 or 4 hours. The thing is, it was only, I think it was 89 kilometers. But like but because the roads aren't paved and you're in like the mountains and stuff, you have to take a bus and the bus is very slow. So yeah, I mean, it was always a day trip and then you don't have your own vehicle, so you have to go when the bus goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So how did you, do you remember a Peace Corp staff or somebody like kind of escorted you down there and helped you get there or did they provide you a bus ticket?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess. I mean. Yeah, no, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, no, I'm just curious. And your house, was it just like a rental or did somebody own it in the village or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.435440104407535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess. I mean. Yeah, no, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, no, I'm just curious. And your house, was it just like a rental or did somebody own it in the village or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So actually the house where I lived and there were actually two volunteers who stayed there before I was there. So it was a huge house. It had like two bedrooms, pretty big living room, kitchen. I mean, you know, a tiny kitchen, whatever, and then outdoor bathroom and shower, which was more space than I needed. And, you know, you have running water like once a day and you fill up what we call a pila, just a big ol' basin. Cement basin. And then that's how you take your shower. And the kitchen was very basic. I just, I bought two, like I guess, two burners or whatever, and that's what I cooked on if I could. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, but yeah, I mean, yeah. It was nice though.\n\nUm, and then, I mean, one of the things too, I mean, I had studied planning and we always talked about new urbanism and building to the street and walkability. And I was like, the town where I lived was a perfect example of that, you know. You know, everyone, you could walk everywhere. There were three streets and they were all parallel and, yeah, and people would leave their doors open. So if you were ever bored later on when I got to know people, you just walk over to your neighbor's house and hang out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is, I don't know, I kind of miss from that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. How big was the town?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 17.15048900489726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So actually the house where I lived and there were actually two volunteers who stayed there before I was there. So it was a huge house. It had like two bedrooms, pretty big living room, kitchen. I mean, you know, a tiny kitchen, whatever, and then outdoor bathroom and shower, which was more space than I needed. And, you know, you have running water like once a day and you fill up what we call a pila, just a big ol' basin. Cement basin. And then that's how you take your shower. And the kitchen was very basic. I just, I bought two, like I guess, two burners or whatever, and that's what I cooked on if I could. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, but yeah, I mean, yeah. It was nice though.\n\nUm, and then, I mean, one of the things too, I mean, I had studied planning and we always talked about new urbanism and building to the street and walkability. And I was like, the town where I lived was a perfect example of that, you know. You know, everyone, you could walk everywhere. There were three streets and they were all parallel and, yeah, and people would leave their doors open. So if you were ever bored later on when I got to know people, you just walk over to your neighbor's house and hang out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is, I don't know, I kind of miss from that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. How big was the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I want to say the whole area was like a thousand. I don't know. It was pretty small."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. And who did you report to or did you work? Did you work with the local government?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5120344808784205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So again, you kind of, you form random friendships or you talk to random people sometimes just because. And so I kind of, there was one strange guy who lived next door to me and I kind of talked to him and he was kind of like, I guess the mechanic or he. I don't know, anyway. But he, one day he was like, hey, there's this, um, there's a venado. And I was like, what is a venado? You know, like, I want to show you this venado. And so I go, um, this is again, the very beginning. So I didn't know much Spanish. And so I go to this family's house and it turns out venado is a deer. And so we wanted to show me a deer at his family's house. But then he brought me there and I wonder, like I was thinking about it just recently. Like, I wonder if that was an excuse. But it was a family. And so I kind of started hanging out with them.\n\nAnd then I remember one girl, actually the cousin of the one family. She approached me one day and she spoke English, so she spoke to me in English. And then I think one other guy, he had been, the volunteer before me. She had tutored him, he was like 16 at the time. And he also, because the volunteer before me had taught him English, he spoke English. So, yeah, I mean, just randomly and, yeah, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the deer alive or was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't know if they were eating the deer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. But I mean again, it was a fairly rural area. So yeah, people have deer there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a pet deer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.124482756531578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't know if they were eating the deer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. But I mean again, it was a fairly rural area. So yeah, people have deer there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a pet deer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't even remember. It was a small one too. I mean, it wasn't big. I don't. Yeah, I don't remember the whole story. I just remember that's how I got to know the family. The deer. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what, I mean, did you, do you ever have an office that you went into or was there? Were you working in from the neighborhood, from your house?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.582758618368421, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. But I mean again, it was a fairly rural area. So yeah, people have deer there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a pet deer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't even remember. It was a small one too. I mean, it wasn't big. I don't. Yeah, I don't remember the whole story. I just remember that's how I got to know the family. The deer. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what, I mean, did you, do you ever have an office that you went into or was there? Were you working in from the neighborhood, from your house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um. The one organization, they did have an office. So I went into their office. The classes they, the people running the program. And there were two ladies and then one lady in the second year who ran the program, Educatodos, they had a secured place. And so we would just meet there. And it was, I think later on it was at some church, just using it during the weekday or Saturdays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And the same for like the English lessons you taught or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.091954020409356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't even remember. It was a small one too. I mean, it wasn't big. I don't. Yeah, I don't remember the whole story. I just remember that's how I got to know the family. The deer. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what, I mean, did you, do you ever have an office that you went into or was there? Were you working in from the neighborhood, from your house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um. The one organization, they did have an office. So I went into their office. The classes they, the people running the program. And there were two ladies and then one lady in the second year who ran the program, Educatodos, they had a secured place. And so we would just meet there. And it was, I think later on it was at some church, just using it during the weekday or Saturdays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And the same for like the English lessons you taught or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the, okay, yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.051795086925131, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the, okay, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Um, and I, I tried at the beginning to, I think that's one of the things too is like I was 23 at the time and so I didn't really have much work experience. So part of it was also trying stuff out, realizing I was really bad at certain things or really didn't like things. But I think one of the things they wanted me to do was like teach little kids English and I realized I would not be a good teacher for little kids. I like teaching older people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm better with, I'm not very good with little kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "English is hard to teach anyway, I mean to anybody."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.613105652139034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Um, and I, I tried at the beginning to, I think that's one of the things too is like I was 23 at the time and so I didn't really have much work experience. So part of it was also trying stuff out, realizing I was really bad at certain things or really didn't like things. But I think one of the things they wanted me to do was like teach little kids English and I realized I would not be a good teacher for little kids. I like teaching older people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm better with, I'm not very good with little kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "English is hard to teach anyway, I mean to anybody."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like especially to kids I would say."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.125672946821149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm better with, I'm not very good with little kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "English is hard to teach anyway, I mean to anybody."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like especially to kids I would say."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then, I mean I really like numbers. So the second year I was there, I focused more on math. And that was cool too. I mean, some of the stuff, um, they, like USAID, they met with me and some other volunteers too, who were using the same program. And were asking for like suggestions on like how to improve the program. But, I don't know, just a random comment. It was funny that like the English, there was one lesson about vocabulary you would use if you landed in the U.S. at an airport. Like, what, why? But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What are the chances? Yeah. Yeah. Think about practical English."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.69519216313461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like especially to kids I would say."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then, I mean I really like numbers. So the second year I was there, I focused more on math. And that was cool too. I mean, some of the stuff, um, they, like USAID, they met with me and some other volunteers too, who were using the same program. And were asking for like suggestions on like how to improve the program. But, I don't know, just a random comment. It was funny that like the English, there was one lesson about vocabulary you would use if you landed in the U.S. at an airport. Like, what, why? But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What are the chances? Yeah. Yeah. Think about practical English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, um. So once you kind of. What were some of the projects that you tried with the agriculture stuff like in the year that you and your?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.81233492885406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if we actually did much on our own. We, we went, they took us around, they showed us what they were doing. Like I made some kind of poster for them. I did some kind of like talk or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the talk. But I don't really remember doing too much useful. But I do remember, I mean, I remember going to the things they did and I mean, it was kind of fun to see. They would go to schools to and just, we did a lot with like teaching people how to cook, use soy, and so they would make some like soy milk thing, like sweet thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and yeah, stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever talk to Peace Corps, the country staff, about kind of your challenges working in that sector in the place that they, in the organization they placed you with?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.680372143171178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the talk. But I don't really remember doing too much useful. But I do remember, I mean, I remember going to the things they did and I mean, it was kind of fun to see. They would go to schools to and just, we did a lot with like teaching people how to cook, use soy, and so they would make some like soy milk thing, like sweet thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and yeah, stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever talk to Peace Corps, the country staff, about kind of your challenges working in that sector in the place that they, in the organization they placed you with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think. I think they became aware of it. I don't know if I, I'm not sure if I ever really specifically spoke to. I mean, I think we would, somehow I think we had to submit reports. And then, you know, that's how they become aware. And I think they, they would also do site visits. Yeah. So I think they were just aware that like we both, you know, me and the other volunteer both felt like it didn't really make any sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Were they a resource or were they kind of just like, okay?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.644857936856864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and yeah, stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever talk to Peace Corps, the country staff, about kind of your challenges working in that sector in the place that they, in the organization they placed you with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think. I think they became aware of it. I don't know if I, I'm not sure if I ever really specifically spoke to. I mean, I think we would, somehow I think we had to submit reports. And then, you know, that's how they become aware. And I think they, they would also do site visits. Yeah. So I think they were just aware that like we both, you know, me and the other volunteer both felt like it didn't really make any sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Were they a resource or were they kind of just like, okay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I think they were fine. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, again, I think one of the things. I mean, the volunteer, the other volunteer, I think he was like a super volunteer. And he got really involved with the municipality and did a lot. So I think just with Peace Corps, you have to be, at least the assignment I had, just had to be very motivated and just kind of a self-starter and a leader, you know. And so I think I was still developing some of those skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were just out of college and."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.796120909699832, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I think they were fine. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, again, I think one of the things. I mean, the volunteer, the other volunteer, I think he was like a super volunteer. And he got really involved with the municipality and did a lot. So I think just with Peace Corps, you have to be, at least the assignment I had, just had to be very motivated and just kind of a self-starter and a leader, you know. And so I think I was still developing some of those skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were just out of college and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I think too that, I mean, like looking back, it's like I also realized that I had pretty much the opportunity to do any volunteer work I wanted and I was still getting paid enough to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I mean, I think, for me, I was paid like $3,000 a year and I was like saving my money. And then after I was like, wait, this is worth nothing in the U.S. I better like, actually use it and enjoy it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you spend your money or did you pay for your house rent or just food or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.696267199664428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she, you know, she started working for the lady next door to me when she was really young and cooking and cleaning. And so she learned a lot of those skills really young. And so she, she was able to use those. Um, I was hoping she'd go to college, go further, obviously. But, um, I mean, I think with a high school degree she's okay. And I talked to her somewhat recently and she like was building her own little house. I mean, it's, you know, fairly simple. It didn't look very big. She showed me, sent me a picture. But yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was her name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Karen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Karen. Yeah, that's easy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was in Cambodia. I try and tell people the names, they're like, say that again. What was your and Karen's relationship like? Did you tutor her also or was it just a social?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.995852444071586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Karen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Karen. Yeah, that's easy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was in Cambodia. I try and tell people the names, they're like, say that again. What was your and Karen's relationship like? Did you tutor her also or was it just a social?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no. I mean, I think, I tutored her, so we did, um, I kind of tutored her on the side, um, kind of doing those two grades with Educatodos so I used their curriculum. Because I like math, I would focus on math and she, you know, made fun of me just like, oh, you're all about numbers. But yeah. And then I would also go over. It was like she and this one other girl who's probably like 20 at the time. Um, so, yeah, I remember Karen turning 13. So she, you know, pretty young, but, um, we would just hang out and like talk and like clean. I would help them clean dishes and they'd be making food or whatever else. But yeah, again, you have random friendships."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Who are some of the other important people in the village to you? You talked about one of the families and."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.476531693448539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think his plan is to stay there. And then another girl I knew, she also, um, she was the one, the daughter of the lady who lived next door to me. And she actually also went to Spain. She also got her degree in pharmacy in Honduras and then went to school there in Spain. And now she's back in Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I talked to her a while ago. I don't know what, you know. Because I was thinking, you know, she could stay in Spain, but I think, I don't know. She had a boyfriend who was Spanish. So I don't, I don't know. I don't know what's going on with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like, what do you feel like your impact on, on those families and those relationships were and what do you feel like their impact was on you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.821371816226568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. But I think, like one thing that struck me was that I feel like Hondurans don't have much pride. So like coming from the U.S. or having the German family, those are both cultures with lots of pride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're very proud of their heritage. Versus Honduras, I don't think they are. And I think that even, like. I think, like, the whiter you are, the more attractive. Like, it's almost like they have the, you know, and I think I think one of the other things that struck me was just like, I mean, I think that affects you in any country. It's just like just the dynamic between the countries. And so I think they, like U.S., being American. You're somehow put on a pedestal, but then you're not really a person either. So it's kind of a strange dynamic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And just, yeah. And you know, I mean, even the fact that like some of the placement, you know. I was pretty much straight out of college and I'm, you know, being placed fairly high, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. As a, you know, again, coming back to like kind of the macho society. Was, you know, did you run into gender issues? Or was it because you were an American you were kind of granted a little bit of a different status?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.445163566874818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no, not Honduras. Honduras, um, there was like a, I think it was a mayor and there's a municipality and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of that like Western."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Democratic style. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Except probably more corrupt. I mean, that's one thing too, is just like any time there'd be elections, pretty much anyone from the opposite party would like get fired. It just very much tied to politics. And I think people like had a long history of just voting for certain parties. I mean, just so much corruption."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps left Honduras shortly after you were there because of the danger and the politics. What was your experience in that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.24924792568661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did some. So I mean, like the. So the first year, we had just gotten to site in December. And so I remember going with other volunteers. We went up to the beach for New Year's. And so that was, I mean, kind of cool, that like you spend New Year's, which is usually so cold, like up in this beautiful beach and swimming and everything. And then another thing we did, I mean, I went. My mom came to visit me. We went to like some Mayan ruins in the Copán. And then we went up to Roatan as well. I think still one of my favorite experiences. I went to Antigua, Guatemala, for Semana Santa [Holy Week] and that was really cool. And it's during like a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Holy week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Holy week, exactly. Yes. And they had all the alfrombras, the rugs is what they call them. But essentially what they do is they just use colored sand and they create these really intricate decorations on the streets. And they're all like, I mean, really old streets and old buildings like colonial style. And those decorations were only on the roads for like, the streets for a few hours. And then like pretty much, I mean, like at sunrise more or less, the processions come through and walk over them. But there's just so many people. And I mean, just to see that artwork was really amazing. Yeah.\n\nAnd then got to travel another time down to, for the second year Semana Santa, we traveled down to all the way to Costa Rica, did Central America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So haven't gotten to go to Belize. Haven't gone to Panama, but covered all others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everything else. Who did you travel? You said your mom came. Who else did you travel with?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6102754729851223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Holy week, exactly. Yes. And they had all the alfrombras, the rugs is what they call them. But essentially what they do is they just use colored sand and they create these really intricate decorations on the streets. And they're all like, I mean, really old streets and old buildings like colonial style. And those decorations were only on the roads for like, the streets for a few hours. And then like pretty much, I mean, like at sunrise more or less, the processions come through and walk over them. But there's just so many people. And I mean, just to see that artwork was really amazing. Yeah.\n\nAnd then got to travel another time down to, for the second year Semana Santa, we traveled down to all the way to Costa Rica, did Central America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So haven't gotten to go to Belize. Haven't gone to Panama, but covered all others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everything else. Who did you travel? You said your mom came. Who else did you travel with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other volunteers. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, um, what was what was your favorite part about Guatemala?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.011417192205691, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So haven't gotten to go to Belize. Haven't gone to Panama, but covered all others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everything else. Who did you travel? You said your mom came. Who else did you travel with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other volunteers. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, um, what was what was your favorite part about Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that experience or like, what do you mean by?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I meant Honduras."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.457130213561879, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other volunteers. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, um, what was what was your favorite part about Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that experience or like, what do you mean by?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I meant Honduras."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry, I lost track."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.50262989328627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry, I lost track."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I mean, I actually I really like, I love the nature. There's, I like hills and mountains and that has lots of mountains. And so just the beauty of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah, I think so. I mean, honestly, the buildings are really nothing special and yeah, I mean. Really, the nature is beautiful. And I think that a lot of Hondurans don't really realize what they have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Are there parks, are there kind of nationally organized parks or anything?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.114033214762522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I mean, I actually I really like, I love the nature. There's, I like hills and mountains and that has lots of mountains. And so just the beauty of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah, I think so. I mean, honestly, the buildings are really nothing special and yeah, I mean. Really, the nature is beautiful. And I think that a lot of Hondurans don't really realize what they have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Are there parks, are there kind of nationally organized parks or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or is it just kind of everywhere?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9926335984722492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or is it just kind of everywhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it's everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then again, they have rainy season and dry season. So they, pretty much it rains all the time for six months and then not at all. I mean, I think the weather there is pretty good, I mean especially where I was, I think it was pretty much 60 to 80 something year round. Like right around February, and so they also have a fair like once a year on February 14th, you know, for. And not necessarily for Valentine's Day, but it kind of coincides. But I remember too, right around that time it gets really cold. Really cold by like maybe high fifties, you know, and so, but there's no AC or heating. So it does make a difference, but people freak out and bundle up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have, your house, did you have electricity and plumbing and any of that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2140373316358324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it's everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then again, they have rainy season and dry season. So they, pretty much it rains all the time for six months and then not at all. I mean, I think the weather there is pretty good, I mean especially where I was, I think it was pretty much 60 to 80 something year round. Like right around February, and so they also have a fair like once a year on February 14th, you know, for. And not necessarily for Valentine's Day, but it kind of coincides. But I remember too, right around that time it gets really cold. Really cold by like maybe high fifties, you know, and so, but there's no AC or heating. So it does make a difference, but people freak out and bundle up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have, your house, did you have electricity and plumbing and any of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah. So I had electricity. Electricity goes out a lot in Honduras. Even just when the government is trying to save money, they'll turn it off. And then I had running water once a day. Yeah. So we just filled up our pilas and used that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's a pila?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.460041479595369, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then again, they have rainy season and dry season. So they, pretty much it rains all the time for six months and then not at all. I mean, I think the weather there is pretty good, I mean especially where I was, I think it was pretty much 60 to 80 something year round. Like right around February, and so they also have a fair like once a year on February 14th, you know, for. And not necessarily for Valentine's Day, but it kind of coincides. But I remember too, right around that time it gets really cold. Really cold by like maybe high fifties, you know, and so, but there's no AC or heating. So it does make a difference, but people freak out and bundle up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have, your house, did you have electricity and plumbing and any of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah. So I had electricity. Electricity goes out a lot in Honduras. Even just when the government is trying to save money, they'll turn it off. And then I had running water once a day. Yeah. So we just filled up our pilas and used that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's a pila?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's like the basin. The concrete cistern."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What, did you have to make many life adjustments in terms of like kind of what your living situation was?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.733379421772632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah. So I had electricity. Electricity goes out a lot in Honduras. Even just when the government is trying to save money, they'll turn it off. And then I had running water once a day. Yeah. So we just filled up our pilas and used that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's a pila?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's like the basin. The concrete cistern."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What, did you have to make many life adjustments in terms of like kind of what your living situation was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you mean by that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like not having running water all the time? Or was that a?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.925977135302925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's like the basin. The concrete cistern."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What, did you have to make many life adjustments in terms of like kind of what your living situation was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you mean by that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like not having running water all the time? Or was that a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of, yeah. I mean, you do, yeah, you do get used to it. And I mean, I think, again, I think the things I missed most were like food and hot water and like my, hot showers, I guess really. So that was really nice. But yeah, I mean, even though sometimes too you get used to it. I remember where I had the host family I had, they had running water all day but it was only cold, so I'd always take cold showers. And then when it got really cold, the town where I was actually a little cooler. They boiled the water for me and I had a hot bucket shower. But I remember going, we had our swearing-in at a hotel in Tegucigalpa and it was a really nice hotel. So we all had our hot showers. And I was like excited about it. But then afterwards I had to turn it on cold because I was so used to those cold showers. So yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often did you regroup with the group for trainings or to just meet and hang out?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.1399745947810276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you mean by that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like not having running water all the time? Or was that a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of, yeah. I mean, you do, yeah, you do get used to it. And I mean, I think, again, I think the things I missed most were like food and hot water and like my, hot showers, I guess really. So that was really nice. But yeah, I mean, even though sometimes too you get used to it. I remember where I had the host family I had, they had running water all day but it was only cold, so I'd always take cold showers. And then when it got really cold, the town where I was actually a little cooler. They boiled the water for me and I had a hot bucket shower. But I remember going, we had our swearing-in at a hotel in Tegucigalpa and it was a really nice hotel. So we all had our hot showers. And I was like excited about it. But then afterwards I had to turn it on cold because I was so used to those cold showers. So yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often did you regroup with the group for trainings or to just meet and hang out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, I was one of the site rats. We didn't really do, I think we had something like maybe it was like once, like halfway through service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mid service training or something?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.266638438645586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of, yeah. I mean, you do, yeah, you do get used to it. And I mean, I think, again, I think the things I missed most were like food and hot water and like my, hot showers, I guess really. So that was really nice. But yeah, I mean, even though sometimes too you get used to it. I remember where I had the host family I had, they had running water all day but it was only cold, so I'd always take cold showers. And then when it got really cold, the town where I was actually a little cooler. They boiled the water for me and I had a hot bucket shower. But I remember going, we had our swearing-in at a hotel in Tegucigalpa and it was a really nice hotel. So we all had our hot showers. And I was like excited about it. But then afterwards I had to turn it on cold because I was so used to those cold showers. So yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often did you regroup with the group for trainings or to just meet and hang out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, I was one of the site rats. We didn't really do, I think we had something like maybe it was like once, like halfway through service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mid service training or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. But we didn't really do too many trainings and then I didn't, I mean, I saw like some people like again for Semana Santa for like a few like travels, but not too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What, you've already mentioned that you missed food and things. What else were you excited about coming home to when you were getting towards the end of service?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4073760429395399, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, I was one of the site rats. We didn't really do, I think we had something like maybe it was like once, like halfway through service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mid service training or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. But we didn't really do too many trainings and then I didn't, I mean, I saw like some people like again for Semana Santa for like a few like travels, but not too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What, you've already mentioned that you missed food and things. What else were you excited about coming home to when you were getting towards the end of service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really think food and hot water are like the biggest things I missed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, where is your, where are you from originally? Where's your family?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1450633179996035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Um, but I mean, I think the other thing is too, you realize what you can live without."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um. Yeah. I don't, yeah, I don't think there was. You know, and obviously people, you know, stuff like that. But like in terms of like things, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again, I think, you know, I'll go into my bigger philosophy, but I think so much of what we have, it's about how we compare to others. And so you want the nice clothes or the nice car or whatever. Almost to like show."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Keep up with."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.648226318518029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again, I think, you know, I'll go into my bigger philosophy, but I think so much of what we have, it's about how we compare to others. And so you want the nice clothes or the nice car or whatever. Almost to like show."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Keep up with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, being in a country like Honduras, I mean, I think there's more and more wealthy people, but, or there's more and more inequality. But I think it's overall, it's been a fairly poor country, so not many people have that much. And so and then the other thing is being a white person, it doesn't matter how you dress, your hair, your seam has a bump, which for better or for worse, I mean, just yeah overall it's sad. But yeah, I mean, you don't I mean, as a Peace Corps volunteer you don't. I mean, I had all my old clothes. I mean, they were in pretty bad shape afterwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, I mean, that's one thing coming back, you don't have much money, so you have like hardly any clothes and it takes you a lot of to build them up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your health?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.6326835644966105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I, um. So, yeah, I mean, I, I had stomach problems pretty much like that. I mean, that, that host family in Santa Lucia, they were really nice. But I think there was something with the food because I had a lot of, like, stomach issues there. I ended up having worms at the very end, which I don't know. Yeah. And I also I think I had some, a case of food poisoning somewhere in there. I had a cough that wouldn't go away until like I went home for like a visit and then all of a sudden it went away. But they gave me all these antibiotics.\n\nI know I had a filling done there. And I wanted one friend or one other girl from Peace Corps. She was also posting about her bad dental experience there. And I was like, yeah, I had a filling down there and now I have a crown on that one tooth. That's the only crown I have. So that was not necessarily like the best care and we were still going to one of the best dentists. I mean, that's the thing too, is that, I mean, a lot of people. Like that one girl, the older one I hung out with who worked for that family, the lady next door to me. She was 20 and she had some cavities. She was like, pull my tooth, don't, don't even bother filling it. Like, we were both like, no, fill it! You know, but I think also if you have such a bad dentist, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I mean, the thing is too, I mean, the dentist we went to, I'm sure it was more expensive, but you can go to really cheap dentists and you can get really cheap health care, although I'm sure the quality's not that good either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How did you, you mentioned that you went back to the States once."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often did you visit? How did you communicate with your family back home?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0156587216007535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often did you visit? How did you communicate with your family back home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I went back actually twice. So I went back like towards the, I mean towards the very beginning. Again, like my two best friends from, or two of my best friends from college. One was, they were both from Hong Kong and the one was leaving to go back. So I was like, I want to see you before you leave. So I went to visit her, but I had just gotten to site, so kind of maybe it was a little too early. And then the second time I went back, I went back for holidays. And so I went back for Christmas and then I went back to Honduras for New Year's because like for them, New Year's is more like Christmas and Christmas, like it's reversed in terms of how they celebrate. So I spent. The family like. I spent Christmas with my family and then the whole family New Year thing in Honduras. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That type of celebration. Yeah. And I. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, how did you communicate with people back home?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.239620801778615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I went back actually twice. So I went back like towards the, I mean towards the very beginning. Again, like my two best friends from, or two of my best friends from college. One was, they were both from Hong Kong and the one was leaving to go back. So I was like, I want to see you before you leave. So I went to visit her, but I had just gotten to site, so kind of maybe it was a little too early. And then the second time I went back, I went back for holidays. And so I went back for Christmas and then I went back to Honduras for New Year's because like for them, New Year's is more like Christmas and Christmas, like it's reversed in terms of how they celebrate. So I spent. The family like. I spent Christmas with my family and then the whole family New Year thing in Honduras. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That type of celebration. Yeah. And I. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, how did you communicate with people back home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I had a blog, I think, and then just internet. Again, there was an internet cafe. It was before smartphones. But, um, yeah, I would go and write people emails that way. But sometimes it was closed or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And who came to visit you while you were there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4884675575317945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That type of celebration. Yeah. And I. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, how did you communicate with people back home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I had a blog, I think, and then just internet. Again, there was an internet cafe. It was before smartphones. But, um, yeah, I would go and write people emails that way. But sometimes it was closed or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And who came to visit you while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just my mom. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's great that she got to see."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.7649639528131047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I had a blog, I think, and then just internet. Again, there was an internet cafe. It was before smartphones. But, um, yeah, I would go and write people emails that way. But sometimes it was closed or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And who came to visit you while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just my mom. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's great that she got to see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did she think about what you were doing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0678567318680305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did she think about what you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think sheg liked it. And so I think, you know, when I first got or first got interested in Peace Corps, my dad was really excited for me. He was very like adventurous. And he also, I think he moved to the U.S. for adventure pretty much. And he would, you know, they had, my parents had their own business and he would travel to Asia also to buy the merchandise and stuff like that, and to Mexico and he spent a while in England as well. So he like, that's his, that was his nature. So he was excited about it. My mom was freaked out, like, you're leaving here and going so far. But yeah, she came and I think it really eased her. I mean, she came to visit me and she, you could tell she was really stressed out. And then also, like we, you know, I had already gotten used to certain things. So we got on a bus or a little minivan, you know, the, um, you know, just to to get somewhere. And it was like people leaning out of the van and, I mean, completely crammed. And I think that was just more than she."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Too much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But when we went, I took her again to Copan to see the Mayan ruins and also to the beach. And by the end of it, she said, wow, this is more like a vacation than I thought. So, yeah. And I think it also eased her mind, you know, to kind of see where I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's good. What would you say you're most proud of from your service?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1865074798533672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think sheg liked it. And so I think, you know, when I first got or first got interested in Peace Corps, my dad was really excited for me. He was very like adventurous. And he also, I think he moved to the U.S. for adventure pretty much. And he would, you know, they had, my parents had their own business and he would travel to Asia also to buy the merchandise and stuff like that, and to Mexico and he spent a while in England as well. So he like, that's his, that was his nature. So he was excited about it. My mom was freaked out, like, you're leaving here and going so far. But yeah, she came and I think it really eased her. I mean, she came to visit me and she, you could tell she was really stressed out. And then also, like we, you know, I had already gotten used to certain things. So we got on a bus or a little minivan, you know, the, um, you know, just to to get somewhere. And it was like people leaning out of the van and, I mean, completely crammed. And I think that was just more than she."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Too much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But when we went, I took her again to Copan to see the Mayan ruins and also to the beach. And by the end of it, she said, wow, this is more like a vacation than I thought. So, yeah. And I think it also eased her mind, you know, to kind of see where I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's good. What would you say you're most proud of from your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said, I think tutoring that one girl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And watching her, the one who had the, who ended up with a cake business and."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.464824049201688, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said, I think tutoring that one girl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And watching her, the one who had the, who ended up with a cake business and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean I, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And her siblings graduated from high school."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8084247521008492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean I, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And her siblings graduated from high school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Because I think, you know, some of the students I had with Educatodos, they, they were self-motivated and so they, they did something with themselves. But I think I can't really take that much responsibility for that. I kind of, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Helped them, you know, maybe start."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. You have to have a spark somewhere."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.232623150741789, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Helped them, you know, maybe start."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. You have to have a spark somewhere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Versus I feel like, you know, with one girl, you know, she said like, I'm stupid. I'm like, yeah, you're stupid for not going to your exam, you know? And just like, I mean, we were friends, you know, and I think I really, I feel like I had a big part in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Helping her and her family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What advice would you have for Peace Corps volunteers that are going into service?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.480692389713099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Versus I feel like, you know, with one girl, you know, she said like, I'm stupid. I'm like, yeah, you're stupid for not going to your exam, you know? And just like, I mean, we were friends, you know, and I think I really, I feel like I had a big part in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Helping her and her family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What advice would you have for Peace Corps volunteers that are going into service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's too broad. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Perhaps to make the most out of their service."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.756324877458999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Helping her and her family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What advice would you have for Peace Corps volunteers that are going into service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's too broad. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Perhaps to make the most out of their service."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say to do exactly make the most out of it. Just make the most out of it, really. I mean, enjoy what you have there. I mean, because it is really kind of a very unique, special situation. I mean, I know for me I regretted not doing more. So really kind of being self-motivated. You know, I think I know people too who kind of took Spanish classes before, really did some stuff to like kind of prepare themselves for it. I think it's great that there's a lot of people who do it later in life when they have more experience. I guess maybe also don't beat yourself up too much. I mean, one of the things I was thinking about too was I really did, I think, beat myself up for it a lot. But it's also like for me, it also changed my life.\n\nI think it, you know, I think a lot of the times people will make themselves into the victim, you know, like you want to say, oh, I was denied this or this. And when you're in a developing country, it's in your face. Look, you were given so much and, you know what I mean? And it is your responsibility to actually do something with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.762790596089999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like that, that feeling of failure was a motivator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think the more and more that you realize, like you can do with yourself and in your situation, the more empowering, the more fun it is to actually do something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like, you know. you know what I mean? Like, it just. I think sometimes too in life, like, maybe, like actually doing the work is not that much fun, but like actually like seeing yourself move forward is. And I think the more and more, I don't know, the more and more I live, the more I'm like, oh, I don't want to just sit in front of the TV and do nothing. You know, that's not, it's fun and relaxing sometimes, but if that's all you're doing. You know, like, I don't know, I, yeah, I think you're not as happy either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So a major motivator from your service. That's really cool. What, um. How did you feel when you were leaving Peace Corps, when you were coming back to the States?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1808784401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think the more and more that you realize, like you can do with yourself and in your situation, the more empowering, the more fun it is to actually do something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like, you know. you know what I mean? Like, it just. I think sometimes too in life, like, maybe, like actually doing the work is not that much fun, but like actually like seeing yourself move forward is. And I think the more and more, I don't know, the more and more I live, the more I'm like, oh, I don't want to just sit in front of the TV and do nothing. You know, that's not, it's fun and relaxing sometimes, but if that's all you're doing. You know, like, I don't know, I, yeah, I think you're not as happy either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So a major motivator from your service. That's really cool. What, um. How did you feel when you were leaving Peace Corps, when you were coming back to the States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think I kind of even thought about extending. I didn't end up, um, I said maybe a little, like a few extra weeks or something, just to finish out some stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of things would you, did you have to finish out?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.645420489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like, you know. you know what I mean? Like, it just. I think sometimes too in life, like, maybe, like actually doing the work is not that much fun, but like actually like seeing yourself move forward is. And I think the more and more, I don't know, the more and more I live, the more I'm like, oh, I don't want to just sit in front of the TV and do nothing. You know, that's not, it's fun and relaxing sometimes, but if that's all you're doing. You know, like, I don't know, I, yeah, I think you're not as happy either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So a major motivator from your service. That's really cool. What, um. How did you feel when you were leaving Peace Corps, when you were coming back to the States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think I kind of even thought about extending. I didn't end up, um, I said maybe a little, like a few extra weeks or something, just to finish out some stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of things would you, did you have to finish out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, just the classes and stuff like that. Um. And then I think I was kind of lost a little bit. And then, um, you know, I think, I mean, I think that's kind of normal, like, right? You're trying to figure out what to do, what's the next step? Yeah. And then I just kind of, it took a few, like it took me a few months and then finally I was like, oh, I'm going to go to grad school and then kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you came back, you went to grad school."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.531441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like, I mean, I got back in December and went back to grad school the following fall. So I had a bit of time. I tutored a little bit, um, and kind of, yeah, didn't really do too much of anything. But yeah, I think it was pretty difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Reacclimated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that the feeling of failure was still there. Um, and then, yeah. And that kind of being lost. And then I think also kind of reality hitting. I mean, I was like, I turned 26 a little bit afterwards and I feel like you get into your late twenties and, you know, you're kind of more and more like just in general, right? You're like, oh, wait, I need to actually do something with myself. What am I doing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of that was hitting me. And then, you know, it's also like I feel like every story you want to tell is like, oh, in Honduras, you know? And just like. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think, you know, one of the questions was talking about culture shock. I don't know if I had too much culture shock. As I said before, I had traveled a lot before and I think actually being in Honduras helped me with that. Kind of finding my place and figuring out, like, again, myself and like, I don't know. Yeah. Just finding my place in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What, um, so where are you now? And how did you end up in the, in your current role and in Austin and?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5904900000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that the feeling of failure was still there. Um, and then, yeah. And that kind of being lost. And then I think also kind of reality hitting. I mean, I was like, I turned 26 a little bit afterwards and I feel like you get into your late twenties and, you know, you're kind of more and more like just in general, right? You're like, oh, wait, I need to actually do something with myself. What am I doing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of that was hitting me. And then, you know, it's also like I feel like every story you want to tell is like, oh, in Honduras, you know? And just like. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think, you know, one of the questions was talking about culture shock. I don't know if I had too much culture shock. As I said before, I had traveled a lot before and I think actually being in Honduras helped me with that. Kind of finding my place and figuring out, like, again, myself and like, I don't know. Yeah. Just finding my place in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What, um, so where are you now? And how did you end up in the, in your current role and in Austin and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I've been in Austin since fall 2008. I started in grad school and just stayed here. I work for TxDOT now. Um, we do travel surveys. I love the work. I mean, I think there's some frustrations at this time, but that's fine. Yeah, yeah. That's really where I am. I don't know. Still figuring out stuff in a sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And you said you still keep in touch with a few people from Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of that was hitting me. And then, you know, it's also like I feel like every story you want to tell is like, oh, in Honduras, you know? And just like. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think, you know, one of the questions was talking about culture shock. I don't know if I had too much culture shock. As I said before, I had traveled a lot before and I think actually being in Honduras helped me with that. Kind of finding my place and figuring out, like, again, myself and like, I don't know. Yeah. Just finding my place in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What, um, so where are you now? And how did you end up in the, in your current role and in Austin and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I've been in Austin since fall 2008. I started in grad school and just stayed here. I work for TxDOT now. Um, we do travel surveys. I love the work. I mean, I think there's some frustrations at this time, but that's fine. Yeah, yeah. That's really where I am. I don't know. Still figuring out stuff in a sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And you said you still keep in touch with a few people from Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're involved in the local returned Peace Corps group. So you're still."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I think it's partly I, yeah, when I start, I mean, I, I want to make sure I maintain that connection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I would love to do more. I mean I really miss, I think that, yeah, where I'm right now, it's like, okay. So when I got back from Peace Corps, I was like, I do not want to live abroad again. Like just because you build, I mean, I think that's maybe one of the things too, is you build a connection to a place and then you leave it. And that, it was kind of missing, missing home. Like I did, I actually felt like a Honduran immigrant and like, I said that to someone and they're like, what are you talking about, you know? But, you know, just because there's so many memories attached to it. And so, um, but now I'm kind of itching to kind of. I wish I had a job that was more like international focused or where I got to travel a little bit more and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That leaves you with a lot of impressions and."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That leaves you with a lot of impressions and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the things too about Honduras. Sorry. Just one of the things I thought about was just like when we were there, it's like every day, especially at the beginning, every day there's some new experience there. You're learning something new and like that's so rare here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think it's such a special, fun, amazing thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Is there something you want to say to wrap up, kind of a last thought on what you feel like your, you know, what did you, what was your overarching impression of what your service was? Is there a word or a feeling?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00100:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the things too about Honduras. Sorry. Just one of the things I thought about was just like when we were there, it's like every day, especially at the beginning, every day there's some new experience there. You're learning something new and like that's so rare here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think it's such a special, fun, amazing thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Is there something you want to say to wrap up, kind of a last thought on what you feel like your, you know, what did you, what was your overarching impression of what your service was? Is there a word or a feeling?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Life changing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. You've given us a lot of examples of how it affected you. Yeah, well, thank you so much for the interview."}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00006:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.4701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I guess we did. Or we made copies or whatever. I don't remember the details. I just remember, you know, we didn't just pull it and bring it to him. He wanted to come and see it. So he came and we met him in our vault. We were there. He came in. We called it this VIP file because they were records that we just wanted to make sure something untoward didn't happen to. And it could have just been something innocent that it got misfiled when it was being put back. So that was kind of I thought that was kind of a very interesting thing. So. And you have a new Archivist now. That's the first permanent female Archivist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And I believe she is going to NPRC soon, next week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, boy. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think there's a congressional open house happening. So I think she's visiting for that. So if you're around, she'll be there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I probably will not. I mean, I may. It may be on the news. I don't know. I will say I said first permanent Archivist because I know Debra Wall was Acting Archivist, and I had a few occasions when I was employed to deal with her. And I always found her really easy to deal with; a sharp person. So I couldn't think of a better person to handle some of that stuff in the interim. And I know filling these positions that have to be approved by the Senate and everything, they're just not easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's an understatement."}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00006:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 17.189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, boy. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think there's a congressional open house happening. So I think she's visiting for that. So if you're around, she'll be there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I probably will not. I mean, I may. It may be on the news. I don't know. I will say I said first permanent Archivist because I know Debra Wall was Acting Archivist, and I had a few occasions when I was employed to deal with her. And I always found her really easy to deal with; a sharp person. So I couldn't think of a better person to handle some of that stuff in the interim. And I know filling these positions that have to be approved by the Senate and everything, they're just not easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's an understatement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, that is definitely an understatement. I haven't really kept up with all the particulars, but I just know it's never easy and it seems like those things have gotten harder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is there anything else you'd like to add to the interview? Do you have any additional anecdotes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00006:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 6.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, that is definitely an understatement. I haven't really kept up with all the particulars, but I just know it's never easy and it seems like those things have gotten harder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is there anything else you'd like to add to the interview? Do you have any additional anecdotes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I actually have one that is kind of weird. I told you I was born and raised in St. Louis, and my dad was very active in the Marine Corps Reserve. So I had been a Cub Scout, but I really didn't want to be a Boy Scout. I don't know why. I think most of my friends weren't doing it. Well, he came to me and said, well, they have this Marine Corps League program, like a local Marine Corps veterans group. He said they have this group called the Young Marines. You could do that. So in 1967, I did that. And we had goofy-looking, little uniforms with a beret, but where we met every Saturday for spring and summer of 1967 when I was 13 was the National Personnel Records Center on 9700 Page."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of weird. And of the people that I still regularly see and we have a monthly group of retirees that get together, I think I was actually at the building before any of them, even Mrs. Bruno that I know you're going to talk to, because 1967, it was still a full six floors. And we actually met on Saturdays. And apparently Saturday work must have been common because that building was open, and we just met there and marched around and learned different things. But it's just a weird, sideline to the fact that I was there before the fire, but at the time I'm not even sure that I paid any attention to how many floors it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, then, when you were in the area during the fire, do you remember it happening?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00155:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 30.59136565301107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was a very good photographer in general, because in geology we do this a lot. I liked it, and I was good at it, and I had my own camera and photo lab, enlargers, myself. I made my own prints with the slides from microscopes, so I was very interested in photography. I read about it a lot, I had all kinds of books, and I did a great deal. I did all of the pictures for my research myself as a geologist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This became a very needed skill for you to be able to help them adjust."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very needed skill then yes, because of the film speed, film sensitivity and all of that. Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work closely with the photo labs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. After the missions we did. We realized that all of the color film that we were using was not real color [film]. There is something better, there is something that is not working very well here. We communicated actually with the US Navy about color film. We were able to get them to cooperate with us, because they were working with things that were classified, but they cooperated with us only by the time of 1975 and the Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project] mission, then they gave us the color. They had paid [Eastman] Kodak [Company] to make a color-sensitive film, which we could have used, but they wouldn’t allow us. After some time I suppose when they developed a better film, they allowed us to use then the special color film that was from a batch that Kodak had developed for the Navy for a classified program, but they developed something better and they allowed us to use that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe you shared with me that the astronauts, the colors of the photos did not match the colors they remembered. How did you adjust for that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00155:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 34.982934423597484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. How to say it, yes, so we said, “Here I am. I’m a geologist. I’m going to look at this. What is it? How am I going to explain this to a guy in the next room that’s not looking at it? What I would say about that.” Yes, he would know the meaning of the words. When I say, striated, that I mean something. Does this really mean fractures in it? When I say, layered, there is some huge communication that goes in the mind of the guy that’s not there if you say layered. So is it striations or layers or lines or cracks? There is a difference between. There is a pattern in there, what you say about this pattern will mean a lot of things to a lot of different people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s quite a challenge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were zipping through there pretty fast."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That did not come easy with just looking at the Moon. That came only through the flyover exercises."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You charted out places for them to go in the—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00155:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 54.62232116309756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, because when they report back what they’re seeing, they would report—maybe it’s not the proper language and maybe not the proper terminology—but he saw it and he verbalized about it, and it’s up to us to figure out what it is. Which means that he was prepared and he did it right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were named a principal investigator [PI] for the orbital visual observations and photography experiment for Apollo 15 and 17. Did that change your role, or did that just give you more of a title?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually, I was doing that informally without NASA making me—because anybody that required time on the Apollo missions was a PI, a principal investigator, or else why NASA would allow time to do such and such? It was principal investigators that applied with a proposal and the proposal accepted and NASA gave the money to make whatever he needed, then it becomes part of the mission and therefore the flight planners would allow the time for the mission. Here I was, a little guy, taking time from the mission and putting things in the flight plan, and I had no official position. It was when [M.] Gene Simmons was the chief scientist at JSC and they were looking through all of the principal investigators. He said, “Goddamn it. What is Farouk? What’s he been doing? You can’t have him doing this on his own like that. He’s got to be a principal investigator or something.”\\n\\n So they said, “Well, we can make him principal investigator of visual observations and photography.” They made it official because I was functioning without a mandate. The flight planners were responding to me without mandates. I was supposed to be just a geologist at Bellcomm at NASA Headquarters doing what NASA Headquarters needs. I had no role at JSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you started, you were not even allowed to talk to the astronauts or the press, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. We were prohibited, from Bellcomm. We were told not to talk to astronauts and never to talk to the press of any sort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That changed in more than one route. Tell us about your dealings with the press."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00155:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 49, "return_to_go": 75.75364182878056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The mission schedule meaning what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Canceling 18."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The deal between NASA and AT&T was, “I’m going to give you all those people that you need for as long as the Apollo program is on. The day Apollo ends, goodbye, because these are my own people, I want them back in New Jersey.” This was the deal, so we knew by Apollo 17 time when came the splashdown of Apollo 17, Bellcomm will fold. Everybody’s moving, so people began to look for houses back in Holmdel, New Jersey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you choose to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time absolutely nothing, I wasn’t even prepared to think about it. That same year Michael Collins of Apollo 11 was brought in by the Smithsonian Institution to head the [National] Air and Space Museum. There was a function where Stu Roosa and Michael Collins were together, and Michael Collins was telling Stu Roosa that he’s just accepted to be director of the Air and Space Museum. “They even want me to do scientific research there, and I don’t know what the hell do they mean by that.”\\n\\n So Stu Roosa said, “Well, call Farouk.”\\n\\n Michael Collins calls me up, and he said, “I’m going to be the director of the Air and Space Museum, and they said that they want me to start [research]. I think that you should come and do this thing for me. I know I’m not going to understand half of what you say, but I know that you’re going to do a good job. Why don’t you come and do whatever the hell you want to do?”\\n\\n I left Bellcomm in December 1972. I moved across the street to the Smithsonian on January 1, to start something that we called the Center for Earth and Planetary Studies as part of the National Air and Space Museum as part of the Smithsonian. I was there for ten years. This was a fascinating thing. It was one of the most fascinating jobs in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Please tell us about your first days and how they evolved."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00155:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 34.727391904862905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You should go see it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll go see that one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It starts with a balloon and ends up with the rocket to the Moon. Fabulous history of aviation with fantastic resolution and magnificent scenery. The Museum cannot take it off. People in Washington request it.\\n\\n So we did it; we started it. We thought we’re going to charge $1 so that we can get that money back. We made $2 million in the first year. Since we are a government agency, we cannot make profit, so what we decided—we’ll call Graeme Ferguson of Canada and tell him, “You make the second movie for $1,250,000.” We did. There, IMAX movies were born. Or else no one would have ever seen it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Amazing. What a great story. Thanks for sharing that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now IMAX would have died had it not been for this, “To Fly!” and the vision of both Michael Collins, as the director of the Air and Space Museum, and the Smithsonian boss Dillon Ripley for saying, “That’s not too bad, and if you get the money in four, five years—” I told him four years. He said, “Four or five years is okay.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now the second movie. Did you provide the script or did you give them—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00155:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 36.363768783181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It starts with a balloon and ends up with the rocket to the Moon. Fabulous history of aviation with fantastic resolution and magnificent scenery. The Museum cannot take it off. People in Washington request it.\\n\\n So we did it; we started it. We thought we’re going to charge $1 so that we can get that money back. We made $2 million in the first year. Since we are a government agency, we cannot make profit, so what we decided—we’ll call Graeme Ferguson of Canada and tell him, “You make the second movie for $1,250,000.” We did. There, IMAX movies were born. Or else no one would have ever seen it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Amazing. What a great story. Thanks for sharing that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now IMAX would have died had it not been for this, “To Fly!” and the vision of both Michael Collins, as the director of the Air and Space Museum, and the Smithsonian boss Dillon Ripley for saying, “That’s not too bad, and if you get the money in four, five years—” I told him four years. He said, “Four or five years is okay.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now the second movie. Did you provide the script or did you give them—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they actually came prepared with something about Planet Earth. Flying to different places, going to Egypt and photographing the pyramids, going to India, photographing it. They did it for the $1,250,000. That bombed. Nobody wanted to see it, so we put it on a little bit and then put it with “To Fly!” and then cut it off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually going forward in your career, you worked with more of this Large Format Camera, is that correct? When you went to Itek?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00155:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.83349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My interjecting scientific questions, and the importance of science, into the program, by planting it in the minds of people that know how to do it. I really felt that that was my contribution that I did—I was able to just allow science to get in under the skin of Apollo. Gently and nicely, and by total acceptance in the places where they really can do something about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you originally started, you began your career by going through series of thousands of photos. Did you put yourself back in that position before you left? Did you review all those photos that came back from your CMP students and was able to absorb all the knowledge or all the lessons that came out of those photos as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. We always continued to pore over these photographs, then also I helped put together the team that NASA wanted to pay for to archive all the Apollo photography. That’s an important thing, because also we made real honest to God archives. There was one archive that I made personally with all the Apollo-Soyuz photographs, a real honest to God archive that has the numbers, has descriptions, has every single picture that was taken, because this was the beginning of looking at the Earth from space.\\n\\n We had a whole slew of people, 12 people, doing nothing but archiving all of the Apollo acquired images, because this is part of the history of science, and part of our understanding of the Moon, and part of the whole astronomy field. Definitely. That’s very essential to keep at it and make absolutely certain that you say what you know and organize it in such a way that can be used by the newer generation or the next generation, whoever goes back to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You are teaching many of the new generation [here at Boston University]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. Many of my students are running programs now. Many of the people that work—the guys that are running the Smithsonian now are the students of my students. The Center for Earth—the guy that is going to be the editor of the book I wrote a chapter for is a student of a guy that I served on his PhD committee for and I hired at the Smithsonian. Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must be very rewarding."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00155:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.9261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. We always continued to pore over these photographs, then also I helped put together the team that NASA wanted to pay for to archive all the Apollo photography. That’s an important thing, because also we made real honest to God archives. There was one archive that I made personally with all the Apollo-Soyuz photographs, a real honest to God archive that has the numbers, has descriptions, has every single picture that was taken, because this was the beginning of looking at the Earth from space.\\n\\n We had a whole slew of people, 12 people, doing nothing but archiving all of the Apollo acquired images, because this is part of the history of science, and part of our understanding of the Moon, and part of the whole astronomy field. Definitely. That’s very essential to keep at it and make absolutely certain that you say what you know and organize it in such a way that can be used by the newer generation or the next generation, whoever goes back to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You are teaching many of the new generation [here at Boston University]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. Many of my students are running programs now. Many of the people that work—the guys that are running the Smithsonian now are the students of my students. The Center for Earth—the guy that is going to be the editor of the book I wrote a chapter for is a student of a guy that I served on his PhD committee for and I hired at the Smithsonian. Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must be very rewarding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wonderful to see the students of your students doing something tangible. Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ve learned so much this afternoon. Are there any topics that you feel we need to touch on before we close today? Jennifer, is there anything that came to your mind?\n\nThe only question I had for you is, as I sit here, I see Joe Allen’s Entering Space [on the bookshelf]. I see the photo of STS-5 [on your wall]. Joe Allen had told us that he was very interested in photography and cameras. On STS-5 they took the first full crew photograph. Can you tell us about your work on STS-5 with Joe Allen?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00155:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. Many of my students are running programs now. Many of the people that work—the guys that are running the Smithsonian now are the students of my students. The Center for Earth—the guy that is going to be the editor of the book I wrote a chapter for is a student of a guy that I served on his PhD committee for and I hired at the Smithsonian. Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must be very rewarding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wonderful to see the students of your students doing something tangible. Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ve learned so much this afternoon. Are there any topics that you feel we need to touch on before we close today? Jennifer, is there anything that came to your mind?\n\nThe only question I had for you is, as I sit here, I see Joe Allen’s Entering Space [on the bookshelf]. I see the photo of STS-5 [on your wall]. Joe Allen had told us that he was very interested in photography and cameras. On STS-5 they took the first full crew photograph. Can you tell us about your work on STS-5 with Joe Allen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never really worked on STS-5 personally, as a Shuttle program specifically for photography, but Joe Allen was the science astronaut on Apollo mission 15. He attended every single briefing that I had with the crew of Apollo 15. By the time we finished with the Apollo 15 mission, he was as knowledgeable, as versed in Apollo photography, like any one of them or anyone. He continued that throughout his Shuttle work. He took many pictures. He showed me many of these pictures from his missions, not just one. In Houston, he would call me and he’d say, “I’m going to go through—I want you to come and see, to look at these pictures.”\\n\\n Said, “Great, I will go down.” We’d look at rolls of films, so he became as astute in photography as any one of the other guys. He’s also a scientist, a PhD in physics. He was very good at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He is a Renaissance man, that’s for sure."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00155:126", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s right. What the hell is a guy who’s an expert on lead and zinc doing teaching astronauts about the Moon? He’s the one that would later say that, “The only man on Earth that I’ve ever met that knows the Moon like the palm of his hand is Farouk El-Baz.” Joe Allen himself, [said this] in one of the debriefings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must be very interesting for you to think back where you were in Egypt working with the petroleum companies studying under the ground, and then you go to the Moon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then go to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s quite an expansive career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only reason for success is really zeroing in on what is significant here, yes. What’s the issue? What’s the problem? What is it you have to do, and why? Then okay, if that’s the case, then how do we do it best?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You shared such great lessons with us, so we appreciate you for giving us your afternoon."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00007:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 66.92970432426426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but it was wonderful. You never felt like he was stepping in and directing you this way or that way. He was paying close attention, but he wasn't on top of you every day. Yet he was letting you go away and solve your problem. It's a very excellent way also to bring people up and improve. Whatever they can do now with that kind of treatment, they can grow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seemed to incorporate a lot of the aspects that you talked about. He served as a mentor at the same time he was a teacher and a confidant and an encourager, but still taskmaster. He knew what you were doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he's watching you. But he's not meddling. It was very, very fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great way to learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through all of that, if I come back to where we started, still the most important part of becoming a good program manager is on-the-job training. If you don't bring people up through an on-the-job process to some degree, it's going to be hard to get them to where you need them to start a program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When I was listening to you going through these different areas, there was a lot of planning involved in how things were done. Share with me why that's so important, and if you saw anything through your career that proved that good planning really is worth the time that it takes for a good result."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00007:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 74.3663381380714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he's watching you. But he's not meddling. It was very, very fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great way to learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through all of that, if I come back to where we started, still the most important part of becoming a good program manager is on-the-job training. If you don't bring people up through an on-the-job process to some degree, it's going to be hard to get them to where you need them to start a program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When I was listening to you going through these different areas, there was a lot of planning involved in how things were done. Share with me why that's so important, and if you saw anything through your career that proved that good planning really is worth the time that it takes for a good result."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These programs are incredibly complicated, complex interactions of different systems elements and different companies, different people involved in the government side. There's no way you can have a successful evolution of development and of the business aspects of a program, the schedules and the finances, and then in Shuttle after you get to fly, these manifests and the sequencings of vehicles and the capabilities of the facilities you're going to use. It is so complicated that planning is a huge aspect of the program management job. You have to be watching what's going on and taking care of problems, but you also have to be focusing on all of the things that are going on simultaneously: how they converge and how they keep you moving towards the goals you want to achieve. Planning is just one of the biggest parts of program management."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Underlying everything that you've done these last almost 50 years there's been a level of risk that has been attached to all the decisions and planning, scheduling. If we could spend some time talking about risk and risk mitigation activities and assessments—talk to us about those aspects and how you plan. What’re the lessons and the knowledge that we need to make sure that we are adhering to the right level of risk?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00007:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.8486634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You asked about notes and things, and I'm not sure what you're looking for there exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We do have a JSC History Collection, and that is used quite often, especially the last couple of years as Constellation has been up and going. One of the goals of the Chief Knowledge Officer is to try to make sure lots of papers, documents—whatever information that might have been important to someone along the way of programs—makes it into that archive. Sometimes people left their files at the Center, and they made it where they needed to go. A lot of that's, of course, at the National Archives. But she's wanting to see if there are people that might have personal papers. There are some that have taken their papers. Mr. Bond, Aleck [C.] Bond, has given his, and Carl [R.] Huss's papers are there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that my papers are that organized. I don't have a diary kind of thing on the programs I managed, which almost sounds like that might be what it would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It could be. The archivist that's there is Shelly Henley Kelly, and she's gotten boxes—I don't know if you remember a gentleman named Mr. [Louis] Leopold."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Lou."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've talked to him. Last time we were there, we put about seven or eight boxes in the back of the vehicle and brought them down to the archives for him. They're just papers that have been put in a box, and they may not get to right away, but at some point Shelly will go through them and organize them and label them and be able to put stuff into the database of what's there. But in the meantime they're kept someplace. Bobby [Robert A.R.] Parker—when he left JPL [Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California], he sent his stuff down to the history archive here in Houston. Same thing. Took her a while to go through all those papers. She's trying to at least collect them so that they can be there, and people can at least go through and start making use of them."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00007:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.6096260000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that my papers are that organized. I don't have a diary kind of thing on the programs I managed, which almost sounds like that might be what it would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It could be. The archivist that's there is Shelly Henley Kelly, and she's gotten boxes—I don't know if you remember a gentleman named Mr. [Louis] Leopold."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Lou."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've talked to him. Last time we were there, we put about seven or eight boxes in the back of the vehicle and brought them down to the archives for him. They're just papers that have been put in a box, and they may not get to right away, but at some point Shelly will go through them and organize them and label them and be able to put stuff into the database of what's there. But in the meantime they're kept someplace. Bobby [Robert A.R.] Parker—when he left JPL [Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California], he sent his stuff down to the history archive here in Houston. Same thing. Took her a while to go through all those papers. She's trying to at least collect them so that they can be there, and people can at least go through and start making use of them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I might look through my boxes, because like I say, it's not very well-organized, and some of it's not connected very well. I did come up with one thing, though, I thought of right away. The Challenger was not the only launch in January of 1986. The STS-61C launched earlier in January, and some of the problems we had with the launch attempts that ended up so badly with Challenger, we had in spades with STS-61C. You don't probably read much about these things anymore. The thing you'll read is that we scrubbed six times before we launched on the seventh attempt. I wrote a memo after that happened, and this was to the Shuttle team about the characteristics of all of those scrubs and how avoidable they would have been if we'd just had things synched better some way. So I brought that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Thank you."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00007:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.45514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Lou."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've talked to him. Last time we were there, we put about seven or eight boxes in the back of the vehicle and brought them down to the archives for him. They're just papers that have been put in a box, and they may not get to right away, but at some point Shelly will go through them and organize them and label them and be able to put stuff into the database of what's there. But in the meantime they're kept someplace. Bobby [Robert A.R.] Parker—when he left JPL [Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California], he sent his stuff down to the history archive here in Houston. Same thing. Took her a while to go through all those papers. She's trying to at least collect them so that they can be there, and people can at least go through and start making use of them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I might look through my boxes, because like I say, it's not very well-organized, and some of it's not connected very well. I did come up with one thing, though, I thought of right away. The Challenger was not the only launch in January of 1986. The STS-61C launched earlier in January, and some of the problems we had with the launch attempts that ended up so badly with Challenger, we had in spades with STS-61C. You don't probably read much about these things anymore. The thing you'll read is that we scrubbed six times before we launched on the seventh attempt. I wrote a memo after that happened, and this was to the Shuttle team about the characteristics of all of those scrubs and how avoidable they would have been if we'd just had things synched better some way. So I brought that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because if I was a program manager and going to be into that kind of thing, that might be a series of thought-provoking things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it all right if we scan this in and attach it to your transcript as part of this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00007:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.994000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because if I was a program manager and going to be into that kind of thing, that might be a series of thought-provoking things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it all right if we scan this in and attach it to your transcript as part of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. You can have it too. You can keep it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You started off asking about Columbia and Challenger. This is something I just collected around 2003. This is a little article by a man that was working on the O-ring analysis at Thiokol back then. It talks about a common cause of the Challenger and the Columbia accidents. It's not talking about flaws in management style as a common cause, which has been pretty well talked about. This is talking about Max Q [Mazimum Dynamic Pressure] and upper-level winds and how they also played into both of these, or potentially did. It's interesting reading, and I haven't seen anybody reference it. But that was in the AIAA [American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics] magazine, Aerospace America, and I think it was in 2003, which is not long after the Columbia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well good. This'll be great information to add as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00007:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.66, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. You can have it too. You can keep it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You started off asking about Columbia and Challenger. This is something I just collected around 2003. This is a little article by a man that was working on the O-ring analysis at Thiokol back then. It talks about a common cause of the Challenger and the Columbia accidents. It's not talking about flaws in management style as a common cause, which has been pretty well talked about. This is talking about Max Q [Mazimum Dynamic Pressure] and upper-level winds and how they also played into both of these, or potentially did. It's interesting reading, and I haven't seen anybody reference it. But that was in the AIAA [American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics] magazine, Aerospace America, and I think it was in 2003, which is not long after the Columbia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well good. This'll be great information to add as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if you want my resume. This is the detailed one. It's so I can keep track of it. No one would read it, but it's complete, which is nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd love to have it. Thank you. Because the one I have, as you know, stopped a few years ago."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00007:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.4, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You started off asking about Columbia and Challenger. This is something I just collected around 2003. This is a little article by a man that was working on the O-ring analysis at Thiokol back then. It talks about a common cause of the Challenger and the Columbia accidents. It's not talking about flaws in management style as a common cause, which has been pretty well talked about. This is talking about Max Q [Mazimum Dynamic Pressure] and upper-level winds and how they also played into both of these, or potentially did. It's interesting reading, and I haven't seen anybody reference it. But that was in the AIAA [American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics] magazine, Aerospace America, and I think it was in 2003, which is not long after the Columbia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well good. This'll be great information to add as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if you want my resume. This is the detailed one. It's so I can keep track of it. No one would read it, but it's complete, which is nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd love to have it. Thank you. Because the one I have, as you know, stopped a few years ago."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to have one that was about that long for Lockheed, because no one would do anything with something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It gives us a lot of good background information, so I thank you for bringing all of these things and for spending the morning with us with such great information."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00007:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to have one that was about that long for Lockheed, because no one would do anything with something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It gives us a lot of good background information, so I thank you for bringing all of these things and for spending the morning with us with such great information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two more. There's a lot of books that were written about Challenger, and many of them were written pretty early. There was still a tremendous amount of emotion flowing around and facts not well sorted. I think some of them are just off track, but there's a couple that I think if you were a program manager and you wanted to read about some of that. There's a book written by a guy in Scandinavia. The title is No Downlink. Do you know about that book?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No Downlink is the title. It was written by Claus Jensen in 1993. It was translated by Barbara Haveland in 1996. His accounts in there are very factual. He doesn't draw a lot of conclusions, but occasionally he does. I won't say all of his conclusions are exactly what I conclude, but it's pretty accurate. It's probably more readable than the Rogers Commission stack of books.\\n\\n Then the other one that has seen a lot of popularity is Challenger Launch Decision [The Challenger Launch Decision: Risky Technology, Culture, and Deviance at NASA ] by Diane Vaughan. It deals extensively with the psychological aspects of management and Challenger. Again, I don't know that her conclusions throughout would synch with what I conclude, but it's a very thought-provoking analysis and a good book to maybe spend some time with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Thank you so much for coming in."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.23407023671356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I recently retired. I taught for 30 years. I was professor of history at Spartanburg Methodist College. And then I had a wreck, a teenager ran into me, to the driver's side. And I was driving which means he hit me. I was three months in the hospital and it forced me to retire. I was ready to get Social Security anyway, so I retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now let's just think back about before you went into the Peace Corps. How did you hear about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess, how did I hear about it? In the newspaper, on the news. It was impossible not to hear about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As soon as Kennedy announced it, I wrote off and got all the information, the application form and things like that. I applied soon after it was announced. In ’61 I guess, summer of ’61."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. So then what made you decide at that time to join the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.704522485237288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess, how did I hear about it? In the newspaper, on the news. It was impossible not to hear about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As soon as Kennedy announced it, I wrote off and got all the information, the application form and things like that. I applied soon after it was announced. In ’61 I guess, summer of ’61."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. So then what made you decide at that time to join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sounded like a great adventure, a chance to get away from school. I've been in school for all these many years. Here’s a chance to go do something, have an adventure, to learn another language, that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so then we what? Did you have a specific area or country where you wanted to go?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.338358316930318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As soon as Kennedy announced it, I wrote off and got all the information, the application form and things like that. I applied soon after it was announced. In ’61 I guess, summer of ’61."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. So then what made you decide at that time to join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sounded like a great adventure, a chance to get away from school. I've been in school for all these many years. Here’s a chance to go do something, have an adventure, to learn another language, that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so then we what? Did you have a specific area or country where you wanted to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I remember I was one of the questions on the application form. I thought if I want to learn a language how to learn a language that is standard language, not some remote thing. So I said a Spanish speaking country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you did say that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.26484257436702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sounded like a great adventure, a chance to get away from school. I've been in school for all these many years. Here’s a chance to go do something, have an adventure, to learn another language, that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so then we what? Did you have a specific area or country where you wanted to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I remember I was one of the questions on the application form. I thought if I want to learn a language how to learn a language that is standard language, not some remote thing. So I said a Spanish speaking country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you did say that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family and your friends think about you going into the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 31.405380638185576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I remember I was one of the questions on the application form. I thought if I want to learn a language how to learn a language that is standard language, not some remote thing. So I said a Spanish speaking country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you did say that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family and your friends think about you going into the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were supportive. My parents especially they were a little nervous at first by going off to go for two years and be gone. But I think they were they were supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now what project were you invited to join?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.561534042428416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family and your friends think about you going into the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were supportive. My parents especially they were a little nervous at first by going off to go for two years and be gone. But I think they were they were supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now what project were you invited to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was invited to join the Heifer Project dairy project in Cochabamba, Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and how did you when you when you were getting ready to go the Peace Corps, did you do any special preparation before you left that you were going to be gone for a while?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 33.95726004714268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were supportive. My parents especially they were a little nervous at first by going off to go for two years and be gone. But I think they were they were supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now what project were you invited to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was invited to join the Heifer Project dairy project in Cochabamba, Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and how did you when you when you were getting ready to go the Peace Corps, did you do any special preparation before you left that you were going to be gone for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not not really. I remember we had to take a test in those days. We don’t have to do that anymore. We had to take a Peace Corps test and somewhere around there it said, what farm experience have you had? And I said, I can milk a cow. I grew up on a dairy farm. I know about having dairy cows. I wrote about that. And sure enough, I was invited to join a dairy project group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, that's great. Ok, when you tell me a little bit about the, what happened after you got your invitation? Did you go to work or training or what happened?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 31.06362227460298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was invited to join the Heifer Project dairy project in Cochabamba, Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and how did you when you when you were getting ready to go the Peace Corps, did you do any special preparation before you left that you were going to be gone for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not not really. I remember we had to take a test in those days. We don’t have to do that anymore. We had to take a Peace Corps test and somewhere around there it said, what farm experience have you had? And I said, I can milk a cow. I grew up on a dairy farm. I know about having dairy cows. I wrote about that. And sure enough, I was invited to join a dairy project group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, that's great. Ok, when you tell me a little bit about the, what happened after you got your invitation? Did you go to work or training or what happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I got it in the spring, sometime spring of ‘62 and we went to training in June of ’62, I think. We're there by the Fourth of July, I know. I was in school at Duke University at the time. I got a leave of absence from there and then with the idea of coming back, but I would be gone for two years. I don't think I'd use the other special training that I remember. This was forty five years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, well, we're. What can you tell me about the training or the Peace Corps training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 32.29291363844776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not not really. I remember we had to take a test in those days. We don’t have to do that anymore. We had to take a Peace Corps test and somewhere around there it said, what farm experience have you had? And I said, I can milk a cow. I grew up on a dairy farm. I know about having dairy cows. I wrote about that. And sure enough, I was invited to join a dairy project group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, that's great. Ok, when you tell me a little bit about the, what happened after you got your invitation? Did you go to work or training or what happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I got it in the spring, sometime spring of ‘62 and we went to training in June of ’62, I think. We're there by the Fourth of July, I know. I was in school at Duke University at the time. I got a leave of absence from there and then with the idea of coming back, but I would be gone for two years. I don't think I'd use the other special training that I remember. This was forty five years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, well, we're. What can you tell me about the training or the Peace Corps training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought the training was really good. Was a good experience. We learned about Bolivian history, Bolivian culture. We learned about Spanish. We also had a good crash course in American history about communism. I remember we talked about that and American culture versus communism, that kind of thing. I also had a lot of first aid I remember. All that was good training. I thought they purposely made the training experience as frustrating as it could be, because the training period was also a selection process, to see who could put up with all the frustration. And so that was kind of a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So what happened when you were in training there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.658792931608616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I got it in the spring, sometime spring of ‘62 and we went to training in June of ’62, I think. We're there by the Fourth of July, I know. I was in school at Duke University at the time. I got a leave of absence from there and then with the idea of coming back, but I would be gone for two years. I don't think I'd use the other special training that I remember. This was forty five years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, well, we're. What can you tell me about the training or the Peace Corps training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought the training was really good. Was a good experience. We learned about Bolivian history, Bolivian culture. We learned about Spanish. We also had a good crash course in American history about communism. I remember we talked about that and American culture versus communism, that kind of thing. I also had a lot of first aid I remember. All that was good training. I thought they purposely made the training experience as frustrating as it could be, because the training period was also a selection process, to see who could put up with all the frustration. And so that was kind of a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So what happened when you were in training there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were at Arizona State University, on the campus of Arizona State. I had an aunt who lived in Tempe of Phoenix at the time. I went to see her one weekend. Somebody that I knew at Duke had a sister or something that would live in that area and insisted that I call them up to go see them while I was there. I did that. It was never on the reservation. Maricopa Prema Pima Reservation for half of training. Ira Hayes, his mother was there. Ira Hayes was one of those Marines who put the flag up on Iwo Jima and his mother was there. Somebody pointing her out. That was a good experience, living on the reservation with the Indian people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you remember most about that experience out there, about the things you did?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.17643659067624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought the training was really good. Was a good experience. We learned about Bolivian history, Bolivian culture. We learned about Spanish. We also had a good crash course in American history about communism. I remember we talked about that and American culture versus communism, that kind of thing. I also had a lot of first aid I remember. All that was good training. I thought they purposely made the training experience as frustrating as it could be, because the training period was also a selection process, to see who could put up with all the frustration. And so that was kind of a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So what happened when you were in training there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were at Arizona State University, on the campus of Arizona State. I had an aunt who lived in Tempe of Phoenix at the time. I went to see her one weekend. Somebody that I knew at Duke had a sister or something that would live in that area and insisted that I call them up to go see them while I was there. I did that. It was never on the reservation. Maricopa Prema Pima Reservation for half of training. Ira Hayes, his mother was there. Ira Hayes was one of those Marines who put the flag up on Iwo Jima and his mother was there. Somebody pointing her out. That was a good experience, living on the reservation with the Indian people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you remember most about that experience out there, about the things you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were living in a trailer. We had to fix our own food, fix our own meals, or at least what today we part of the frustration to see if we could get along doing that. I think after six hours in the trailer, only two of us went I think. The other four psyched themselves out or decided not to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So was there anything about that training that surprised you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 27.97381843408471, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were at Arizona State University, on the campus of Arizona State. I had an aunt who lived in Tempe of Phoenix at the time. I went to see her one weekend. Somebody that I knew at Duke had a sister or something that would live in that area and insisted that I call them up to go see them while I was there. I did that. It was never on the reservation. Maricopa Prema Pima Reservation for half of training. Ira Hayes, his mother was there. Ira Hayes was one of those Marines who put the flag up on Iwo Jima and his mother was there. Somebody pointing her out. That was a good experience, living on the reservation with the Indian people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you remember most about that experience out there, about the things you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were living in a trailer. We had to fix our own food, fix our own meals, or at least what today we part of the frustration to see if we could get along doing that. I think after six hours in the trailer, only two of us went I think. The other four psyched themselves out or decided not to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So was there anything about that training that surprised you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I was surprised at how frustrating it was, I thought they would be more encouraging, I suppose. There was a challenge to see who would put up with all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so after the training in Arizona, then what happened?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 28.85979826009412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were living in a trailer. We had to fix our own food, fix our own meals, or at least what today we part of the frustration to see if we could get along doing that. I think after six hours in the trailer, only two of us went I think. The other four psyched themselves out or decided not to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So was there anything about that training that surprised you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I was surprised at how frustrating it was, I thought they would be more encouraging, I suppose. There was a challenge to see who would put up with all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so after the training in Arizona, then what happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went home. I think a week and then we were all gathered in Miami. We would go to Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wait before before we went to Miami. Where did we go?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.177553622326798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I was surprised at how frustrating it was, I thought they would be more encouraging, I suppose. There was a challenge to see who would put up with all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so after the training in Arizona, then what happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went home. I think a week and then we were all gathered in Miami. We would go to Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wait before before we went to Miami. Where did we go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's what I'm going to say. In Miami, ready to go to Bolivia. We were eating supper and Kennedy came on TV and said we are blockading Cuba and we may go to war any minute. And meanwhile, there was some trouble in La Paz, so they decided we could not go to La Paz at that time. They took us to Vermont where they had a Peace Corps training house, and we stayed there for two weeks, three weeks in November before we went to Bolivia. So things kind of calmed down. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, we went to Vermont."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what do you remember about that was Brattleboro, Vermont?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.641726247029773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went home. I think a week and then we were all gathered in Miami. We would go to Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wait before before we went to Miami. Where did we go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's what I'm going to say. In Miami, ready to go to Bolivia. We were eating supper and Kennedy came on TV and said we are blockading Cuba and we may go to war any minute. And meanwhile, there was some trouble in La Paz, so they decided we could not go to La Paz at that time. They took us to Vermont where they had a Peace Corps training house, and we stayed there for two weeks, three weeks in November before we went to Bolivia. So things kind of calmed down. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, we went to Vermont."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what do you remember about that was Brattleboro, Vermont?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Brattleboro, Vermont. That was very nice experience. Fall time of the year, the birch trees were changing, very beautiful. And we knew we were not going to be selected out, we���d been selected. That was a good time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So what do you recall about what you recall anything special about being in Vermont?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.046362496699746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's what I'm going to say. In Miami, ready to go to Bolivia. We were eating supper and Kennedy came on TV and said we are blockading Cuba and we may go to war any minute. And meanwhile, there was some trouble in La Paz, so they decided we could not go to La Paz at that time. They took us to Vermont where they had a Peace Corps training house, and we stayed there for two weeks, three weeks in November before we went to Bolivia. So things kind of calmed down. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, we went to Vermont."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what do you remember about that was Brattleboro, Vermont?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Brattleboro, Vermont. That was very nice experience. Fall time of the year, the birch trees were changing, very beautiful. And we knew we were not going to be selected out, we’d been selected. That was a good time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So what do you recall about what you recall anything special about being in Vermont?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We sat around a lot, played bridge, read books. We tried having Spanish classes, and they took us all into Boston one weekend. I visited my cousin at Harvard and he was surprised to see me there. Thought I was in Bolivia. But yeah, I was in Boston. George and I went together around the harbor to see him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so when you finally got to Bolivia, what were your impressions when you were first coming?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.384847218555272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Brattleboro, Vermont. That was very nice experience. Fall time of the year, the birch trees were changing, very beautiful. And we knew we were not going to be selected out, we’d been selected. That was a good time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So what do you recall about what you recall anything special about being in Vermont?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We sat around a lot, played bridge, read books. We tried having Spanish classes, and they took us all into Boston one weekend. I visited my cousin at Harvard and he was surprised to see me there. Thought I was in Bolivia. But yeah, I was in Boston. George and I went together around the harbor to see him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so when you finally got to Bolivia, what were your impressions when you were first coming?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we got to the airport, I left my camera on the airplane and I ran back to get it and I got all exhausted. I was sick the rest of the day because of the altitude. They had to have oxygen available in the airport, at 13,000 feet. And at that time, the airport would not pay. Our guests would come up when the plane landed. I was I was kind of sick for the first few days in La Paz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when. Well, tell me a little bit about what happened while you were in La Paz at the beginning."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.7609413539503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We sat around a lot, played bridge, read books. We tried having Spanish classes, and they took us all into Boston one weekend. I visited my cousin at Harvard and he was surprised to see me there. Thought I was in Bolivia. But yeah, I was in Boston. George and I went together around the harbor to see him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so when you finally got to Bolivia, what were your impressions when you were first coming?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we got to the airport, I left my camera on the airplane and I ran back to get it and I got all exhausted. I was sick the rest of the day because of the altitude. They had to have oxygen available in the airport, at 13,000 feet. And at that time, the airport would not pay. Our guests would come up when the plane landed. I was I was kind of sick for the first few days in La Paz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when. Well, tell me a little bit about what happened while you were in La Paz at the beginning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember. We had lots of lectures. We met various people. I think we met the president. I guess the ambassador. I don't remember. It was cold. We were glad to get Cochabamba. Cochabamba was much nicer than La Paz. It was cold, you couldn’t walk fast because of the altitude, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what do you remember anything about the trip from La Paz to Cochabamba?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 25.289934837722555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we got to the airport, I left my camera on the airplane and I ran back to get it and I got all exhausted. I was sick the rest of the day because of the altitude. They had to have oxygen available in the airport, at 13,000 feet. And at that time, the airport would not pay. Our guests would come up when the plane landed. I was I was kind of sick for the first few days in La Paz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when. Well, tell me a little bit about what happened while you were in La Paz at the beginning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember. We had lots of lectures. We met various people. I think we met the president. I guess the ambassador. I don't remember. It was cold. We were glad to get Cochabamba. Cochabamba was much nicer than La Paz. It was cold, you couldn’t walk fast because of the altitude, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what do you remember anything about the trip from La Paz to Cochabamba?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in a jeep. There were about ten or twelve jeeps that were driving along a very narrow road, cars and trucks couldn’t pass each other. They had to stop and one would back at to get the a wide place of the road, to let the other one go by. It took all day to get from La Paz to Cochabamba. l was glad to see green trees, grass growing, at Cochabamba, which we did not see in La Paz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true. OK, when you first got there, what were your impressions of the local people, the Peace Corps staff and all that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 25.877705375247285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember. We had lots of lectures. We met various people. I think we met the president. I guess the ambassador. I don't remember. It was cold. We were glad to get Cochabamba. Cochabamba was much nicer than La Paz. It was cold, you couldn’t walk fast because of the altitude, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what do you remember anything about the trip from La Paz to Cochabamba?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in a jeep. There were about ten or twelve jeeps that were driving along a very narrow road, cars and trucks couldn’t pass each other. They had to stop and one would back at to get the a wide place of the road, to let the other one go by. It took all day to get from La Paz to Cochabamba. l was glad to see green trees, grass growing, at Cochabamba, which we did not see in La Paz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true. OK, when you first got there, what were your impressions of the local people, the Peace Corps staff and all that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for about a week we live in a hotel in downtown Cochabamba. We continue to have orientation observers around the city and around the countryside. I was very impressed. It was so much better than La Paz. I liked it better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, did you, um."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 26.53078375027476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in a jeep. There were about ten or twelve jeeps that were driving along a very narrow road, cars and trucks couldn’t pass each other. They had to stop and one would back at to get the a wide place of the road, to let the other one go by. It took all day to get from La Paz to Cochabamba. l was glad to see green trees, grass growing, at Cochabamba, which we did not see in La Paz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true. OK, when you first got there, what were your impressions of the local people, the Peace Corps staff and all that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for about a week we live in a hotel in downtown Cochabamba. We continue to have orientation observers around the city and around the countryside. I was very impressed. It was so much better than La Paz. I liked it better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, did you, um."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I discovered right away the central Boliviano Americano. That was a library and had books in English there. And right away I got some books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Can you talk about what you actually did down there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.966291343201892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I knew what I was doing. Sam came back and he and I together had a jeep. I kept the jeep at my house. Sam and I worked together and he would go to a farm and then I would go to a farm and I would pick him up or vice versa. Usually the man would want me to stay and eat breakfast and I would like to try to get out of it if I could, but I’d often would have to think so. If you were used it hot it was okay. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is that pretty much the majority of what you did then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The majority of what I did, I was a milk tester."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about when you weren't working? What kinds of things that you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, right. Our basketball team. Mr. Wolf organized us into a team and we were just sitting there playing basketball. I started playing softball with some of them were our softball. We went to the movies. No television in Bolivia at that time, there were no televisions. So movies were a thing. Movies were about two or three years old. So movies that I had missed couple of years earlier were now coming around current in Bolivia. I went to movies a lot. I read books from the English-speaking library. There was an English speaking school in Cochabamba and for six weeks or so I taught at school while somebody was sick or something. But I remember I taught, I think, geography and American history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was kind of fun, I guess."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.19295227555789, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, right. Our basketball team. Mr. Wolf organized us into a team and we were just sitting there playing basketball. I started playing softball with some of them were our softball. We went to the movies. No television in Bolivia at that time, there were no televisions. So movies were a thing. Movies were about two or three years old. So movies that I had missed couple of years earlier were now coming around current in Bolivia. I went to movies a lot. I read books from the English-speaking library. There was an English speaking school in Cochabamba and for six weeks or so I taught at school while somebody was sick or something. But I remember I taught, I think, geography and American history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was kind of fun, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also taught an English class for a while. Bolivians wanted to learn English, so I taught an English class. I realized they were all speaking with a Southern accent and because they were trying to imitate me, and I was teaching them a drawl with a southern accent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK, so over the time that you were there, how did you your life and your work changed? Did you adapt pretty easily or what? How did that go?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.436613639508767, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also taught an English class for a while. Bolivians wanted to learn English, so I taught an English class. I realized they were all speaking with a Southern accent and because they were trying to imitate me, and I was teaching them a drawl with a southern accent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK, so over the time that you were there, how did you your life and your work changed? Did you adapt pretty easily or what? How did that go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember at the end of our two years we had a conference and why the question that came back was how did this experience change you. And my answer was, I had a new appreciation for agriculture. I learned that you can work with cows, work with people, working with cows, and not getting all mad and frustrated which was my case at home. And I decided not to go back to divinity school, but to get some kind of master's degree. And I didn't want to go back to the farm where I grew up and take over the farm. But if I could have a master’s degree to get into one of the local colleges somewhere around there. And I have a hand in the college community where they always need English teachers, so I decided to go back in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Let's talk about the end of the first year, midway between over midway through your experience. Do you remember any kind of special events or how you were feeling at that point in time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.707348488343072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also taught an English class for a while. Bolivians wanted to learn English, so I taught an English class. I realized they were all speaking with a Southern accent and because they were trying to imitate me, and I was teaching them a drawl with a southern accent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK, so over the time that you were there, how did you your life and your work changed? Did you adapt pretty easily or what? How did that go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember at the end of our two years we had a conference and why the question that came back was how did this experience change you. And my answer was, I had a new appreciation for agriculture. I learned that you can work with cows, work with people, working with cows, and not getting all mad and frustrated which was my case at home. And I decided not to go back to divinity school, but to get some kind of master's degree. And I didn't want to go back to the farm where I grew up and take over the farm. But if I could have a master’s degree to get into one of the local colleges somewhere around there. And I have a hand in the college community where they always need English teachers, so I decided to go back in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Let's talk about the end of the first year, midway between over midway through your experience. Do you remember any kind of special events or how you were feeling at that point in time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By halfway through, I guess looking forward to it all being over. I kept thinking, you know, six months to go, four months to go, things like that. But by the time it got to the end, the less I wanted to leave. I did not consider extending though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was hard to leave them at the end, I guess. So what did you live with a family like some of the other?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.897053875936745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember at the end of our two years we had a conference and why the question that came back was how did this experience change you. And my answer was, I had a new appreciation for agriculture. I learned that you can work with cows, work with people, working with cows, and not getting all mad and frustrated which was my case at home. And I decided not to go back to divinity school, but to get some kind of master's degree. And I didn't want to go back to the farm where I grew up and take over the farm. But if I could have a master’s degree to get into one of the local colleges somewhere around there. And I have a hand in the college community where they always need English teachers, so I decided to go back in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Let's talk about the end of the first year, midway between over midway through your experience. Do you remember any kind of special events or how you were feeling at that point in time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By halfway through, I guess looking forward to it all being over. I kept thinking, you know, six months to go, four months to go, things like that. But by the time it got to the end, the less I wanted to leave. I did not consider extending though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was hard to leave them at the end, I guess. So what did you live with a family like some of the other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At first, Ed Dennison and I lived with a family out near Sicavo, way out in the country. That was not satisfactory about three or four months after we had been there, we moved into town with a family where he had right there in my home. We already were living I was living with this family in downtown Cochabamba, right near the post office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that work out better?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.330059862151938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By halfway through, I guess looking forward to it all being over. I kept thinking, you know, six months to go, four months to go, things like that. But by the time it got to the end, the less I wanted to leave. I did not consider extending though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was hard to leave them at the end, I guess. So what did you live with a family like some of the other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At first, Ed Dennison and I lived with a family out near Sicavo, way out in the country. That was not satisfactory about three or four months after we had been there, we moved into town with a family where he had right there in my home. We already were living I was living with this family in downtown Cochabamba, right near the post office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that work out better?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That worked out much better. You were closer to the people, also close to the beach office and all that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did you have any health problems or anything like that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 27.033399846835486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At first, Ed Dennison and I lived with a family out near Sicavo, way out in the country. That was not satisfactory about three or four months after we had been there, we moved into town with a family where he had right there in my home. We already were living I was living with this family in downtown Cochabamba, right near the post office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that work out better?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That worked out much better. You were closer to the people, also close to the beach office and all that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did you have any health problems or anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody had health problems. I guess I had diarrhea some. I wasn’t really bad sick, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about did you do any good? Get to do any traveling?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.90452653886898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do vacation. And I went to Ecuador and also in the Foreign Service in Quito. My parents came down and stayed about two weeks in Quito. I went to Quito. Another time I went to Brazil. In Rio. One day to Brasilia and Sao Paolo, about a week over there. Also traveled all around in Bolivia, went to Sucre, Santa Cruz, Trinidad. I never went to Potosi and I regret that. I never went to see Potosi. Went to La Paz a couple of times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Sucre."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Sucre."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Oruro."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oruro for carnival."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.782807265409975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Sucre."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Sucre."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Oruro."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oruro for carnival."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oruro for carnival."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so overall, when you finished your tour there, you said you were not you were not looking forward to leaving at the end, but you didn't extend. How did you feel about what you had done there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.758674739344414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Oruro."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oruro for carnival."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oruro for carnival."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so overall, when you finished your tour there, you said you were not you were not looking forward to leaving at the end, but you didn't extend. How did you feel about what you had done there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we set up this milk testing program. There were two Bolivian boys with us and we taught them how to do it. They were supposed to take it over from us what we finished and they did. I don't think it continued. I think actually that the farmers had to pay to be a part of the program. And I don't know how many of them did that. I think it ended soon after we left. You have to remember, because the Bolivians who had had and I don't know if the people gave them our Jeep or told them or what, but I don't think it lasted. I don't know how much good we actually did in Bolivia. We had a big time with a good learning experience for us, but I'm not sure how much we actually helped Bolivians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so how did that make you feel at the end?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.842971932604904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oruro for carnival."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so overall, when you finished your tour there, you said you were not you were not looking forward to leaving at the end, but you didn't extend. How did you feel about what you had done there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we set up this milk testing program. There were two Bolivian boys with us and we taught them how to do it. They were supposed to take it over from us what we finished and they did. I don't think it continued. I think actually that the farmers had to pay to be a part of the program. And I don't know how many of them did that. I think it ended soon after we left. You have to remember, because the Bolivians who had had and I don't know if the people gave them our Jeep or told them or what, but I don't think it lasted. I don't know how much good we actually did in Bolivia. We had a big time with a good learning experience for us, but I'm not sure how much we actually helped Bolivians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so how did that make you feel at the end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I came home I was kind of a celebrity. Everybody wanted me to come to talk to book clubs, school classes, that kind of thing. I had lots of slides, so I was ready. I put my, developed a standard talk that lasted about 45 minutes ago, showing the slides. And so when I got out, I had a good experience, I said, I learned a lot. I had a big adventure, had a good time. I'm not sure how much good we actually did, though, in the long run."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hard to measure that kind of stuff."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.158857702894338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we set up this milk testing program. There were two Bolivian boys with us and we taught them how to do it. They were supposed to take it over from us what we finished and they did. I don't think it continued. I think actually that the farmers had to pay to be a part of the program. And I don't know how many of them did that. I think it ended soon after we left. You have to remember, because the Bolivians who had had and I don't know if the people gave them our Jeep or told them or what, but I don't think it lasted. I don't know how much good we actually did in Bolivia. We had a big time with a good learning experience for us, but I'm not sure how much we actually helped Bolivians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so how did that make you feel at the end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I came home I was kind of a celebrity. Everybody wanted me to come to talk to book clubs, school classes, that kind of thing. I had lots of slides, so I was ready. I put my, developed a standard talk that lasted about 45 minutes ago, showing the slides. And so when I got out, I had a good experience, I said, I learned a lot. I had a big adventure, had a good time. I'm not sure how much good we actually did, though, in the long run."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hard to measure that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, hard to measure that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had it to do over again, would you do anything differently?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.2876196698826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I came home I was kind of a celebrity. Everybody wanted me to come to talk to book clubs, school classes, that kind of thing. I had lots of slides, so I was ready. I put my, developed a standard talk that lasted about 45 minutes ago, showing the slides. And so when I got out, I had a good experience, I said, I learned a lot. I had a big adventure, had a good time. I'm not sure how much good we actually did, though, in the long run."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hard to measure that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, hard to measure that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had it to do over again, would you do anything differently?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't know. I guess not. As I said, I was very lucky in the place that I went, Cochabamba is eternal spring time. Not too hot, not to cold. With who I worked with, with Heifer Project and Mr. Wolf, with Luis Barrone at the milk plant, he’d been to Cornell, knew how to run a milk plant, about the kind of work I did. I had something specific to do every day, which I could do. And I was very lucky in what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So overall, how would you evaluate the service that you did? And of course, you know, the goals, they talk about providing technical assistance and a better understanding of the U.S. and then for Americans to better understand other countries."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.54179963320289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, hard to measure that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had it to do over again, would you do anything differently?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't know. I guess not. As I said, I was very lucky in the place that I went, Cochabamba is eternal spring time. Not too hot, not to cold. With who I worked with, with Heifer Project and Mr. Wolf, with Luis Barrone at the milk plant, he’d been to Cornell, knew how to run a milk plant, about the kind of work I did. I had something specific to do every day, which I could do. And I was very lucky in what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So overall, how would you evaluate the service that you did? And of course, you know, the goals, they talk about providing technical assistance and a better understanding of the U.S. and then for Americans to better understand other countries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the last two, I think we did very good. Certainly helped me. I think we helped a lot of Bolivians understand about Americans. I'm not sure how much we taught Bolivians, though, not sure how much we helped them. Yeah, but certainly they got to understand us, they learned about softball, they learned some English. A good number of Bolivians came to the States because of us. Came to go to school, came to live, whatever, but because of us a good number of Bolivians came. A good number of our group married Bolivians, if I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there was there are quite a lot of dating and things like that in Cochabamba?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.713110703558765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't know. I guess not. As I said, I was very lucky in the place that I went, Cochabamba is eternal spring time. Not too hot, not to cold. With who I worked with, with Heifer Project and Mr. Wolf, with Luis Barrone at the milk plant, he’d been to Cornell, knew how to run a milk plant, about the kind of work I did. I had something specific to do every day, which I could do. And I was very lucky in what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So overall, how would you evaluate the service that you did? And of course, you know, the goals, they talk about providing technical assistance and a better understanding of the U.S. and then for Americans to better understand other countries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the last two, I think we did very good. Certainly helped me. I think we helped a lot of Bolivians understand about Americans. I'm not sure how much we taught Bolivians, though, not sure how much we helped them. Yeah, but certainly they got to understand us, they learned about softball, they learned some English. A good number of Bolivians came to the States because of us. Came to go to school, came to live, whatever, but because of us a good number of Bolivians came. A good number of our group married Bolivians, if I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there was there are quite a lot of dating and things like that in Cochabamba?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were invited to a lots of parties. We had to go eat with people around a lot. A lot of the young men, males our age, were away in the States, in Spain, in Lima, Buenos Aires or some place. And that left a lot girls who were our age who were sort of there looking for somebody. So we were invited to lots of dances, lots of parties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's great. Have you continued any kind of involvement with Bolivia over the years?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.570123003954183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the last two, I think we did very good. Certainly helped me. I think we helped a lot of Bolivians understand about Americans. I'm not sure how much we taught Bolivians, though, not sure how much we helped them. Yeah, but certainly they got to understand us, they learned about softball, they learned some English. A good number of Bolivians came to the States because of us. Came to go to school, came to live, whatever, but because of us a good number of Bolivians came. A good number of our group married Bolivians, if I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there was there are quite a lot of dating and things like that in Cochabamba?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were invited to a lots of parties. We had to go eat with people around a lot. A lot of the young men, males our age, were away in the States, in Spain, in Lima, Buenos Aires or some place. And that left a lot girls who were our age who were sort of there looking for somebody. So we were invited to lots of dances, lots of parties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's great. Have you continued any kind of involvement with Bolivia over the years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I've been back twice. I went in the summer of ‘66 with George Wright and his friends and Marybeth and I went in the summer of ‘73, it was November, December by the time we got there. I haven't been back since. I read about them in the paper, but I haven't really kept up much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So can we talk a little bit about what how this changed your life? You mentioned some about that in the beginning. How did the Peace Corps? Are you doing different things than you would have done had you not gone into the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.633470004393537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were invited to a lots of parties. We had to go eat with people around a lot. A lot of the young men, males our age, were away in the States, in Spain, in Lima, Buenos Aires or some place. And that left a lot girls who were our age who were sort of there looking for somebody. So we were invited to lots of dances, lots of parties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's great. Have you continued any kind of involvement with Bolivia over the years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I've been back twice. I went in the summer of ‘66 with George Wright and his friends and Marybeth and I went in the summer of ‘73, it was November, December by the time we got there. I haven't been back since. I read about them in the paper, but I haven't really kept up much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So can we talk a little bit about what how this changed your life? You mentioned some about that in the beginning. How did the Peace Corps? Are you doing different things than you would have done had you not gone into the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I'm sure I have, but I don't know what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you decided not to do divinity school."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.25941111599282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I've been back twice. I went in the summer of ‘66 with George Wright and his friends and Marybeth and I went in the summer of ‘73, it was November, December by the time we got there. I haven't been back since. I read about them in the paper, but I haven't really kept up much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So can we talk a little bit about what how this changed your life? You mentioned some about that in the beginning. How did the Peace Corps? Are you doing different things than you would have done had you not gone into the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I'm sure I have, but I don't know what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you decided not to do divinity school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got a master's degree in English and they called me back my undergraduate school. And old man died, they need an English teacher, so I went three years of teaching English. I’m not an English teach, I found that out. I found out, though, I like being in the college community. And if I was going to stay in it, I needed a PhD. So I went back to graduate school in history this time because a good friend of mine was doing Latin American history and I was sitting in her bed and being a resource for her. And I liked something about Bolivia, about Latin America geography. So I went to the University of Texas and got a PhD in history. I say I went to Texas and got two degrees and a wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s a pretty significant change, you go from divinity school to English and then history."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.066012351103133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I'm sure I have, but I don't know what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you decided not to do divinity school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got a master's degree in English and they called me back my undergraduate school. And old man died, they need an English teacher, so I went three years of teaching English. I’m not an English teach, I found that out. I found out, though, I like being in the college community. And if I was going to stay in it, I needed a PhD. So I went back to graduate school in history this time because a good friend of mine was doing Latin American history and I was sitting in her bed and being a resource for her. And I liked something about Bolivia, about Latin America geography. So I went to the University of Texas and got a PhD in history. I say I went to Texas and got two degrees and a wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s a pretty significant change, you go from divinity school to English and then history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve done a lot of things, probably fooled around too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But how do you think the Peace Corps experience affected you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.07334705678126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got a master's degree in English and they called me back my undergraduate school. And old man died, they need an English teacher, so I went three years of teaching English. I’m not an English teach, I found that out. I found out, though, I like being in the college community. And if I was going to stay in it, I needed a PhD. So I went back to graduate school in history this time because a good friend of mine was doing Latin American history and I was sitting in her bed and being a resource for her. And I liked something about Bolivia, about Latin America geography. So I went to the University of Texas and got a PhD in history. I say I went to Texas and got two degrees and a wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s a pretty significant change, you go from divinity school to English and then history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve done a lot of things, probably fooled around too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But how do you think the Peace Corps experience affected you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A more international outlook, more tolerant of people who are not just like me? I don't know. There are all kinds of ways that I can’t think of or mention specifically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you think of any kind of specific things that happened that will really stick out in your mind while you were there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.637052285312507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve done a lot of things, probably fooled around too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But how do you think the Peace Corps experience affected you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A more international outlook, more tolerant of people who are not just like me? I don't know. There are all kinds of ways that I can’t think of or mention specifically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you think of any kind of specific things that happened that will really stick out in your mind while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I went there and they were kind of humiliating and the farm where I was to get the cow’s milk and it was across the river and one night it rained and rained and rained. And I went out there in the dark in the morning and crossed the river ok. I stayed at the man’s place and when I came back, the river was as high as I had ever seen it. I thought about all the Peace Corps training, about how they said always try. So I started across the river, three deep channels in the river. I got across two of them. On the third one, the water was coming up over the hood of the jeep and the motor conked out. The car began floating down the river, turned over its the side. I got the milk samples, I climbed out, got on top of the thing, it turned over. People lined up all the way along the banks to watch what I was going to do. I finally got out, waited another hour or so for the water to go down, but very embarrassing. I had to come pull the Jeep out, and it didn’t cause all that too much damage, just labor, not replace any parts. But the Jeep was out of commission for a week or so while they cleaned it out. That's very embarrassing, floated down the river in a Jeep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well that’s pretty, pretty interesting."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 17.37450253923612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A more international outlook, more tolerant of people who are not just like me? I don't know. There are all kinds of ways that I can’t think of or mention specifically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you think of any kind of specific things that happened that will really stick out in your mind while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I went there and they were kind of humiliating and the farm where I was to get the cow’s milk and it was across the river and one night it rained and rained and rained. And I went out there in the dark in the morning and crossed the river ok. I stayed at the man’s place and when I came back, the river was as high as I had ever seen it. I thought about all the Peace Corps training, about how they said always try. So I started across the river, three deep channels in the river. I got across two of them. On the third one, the water was coming up over the hood of the jeep and the motor conked out. The car began floating down the river, turned over its the side. I got the milk samples, I climbed out, got on top of the thing, it turned over. People lined up all the way along the banks to watch what I was going to do. I finally got out, waited another hour or so for the water to go down, but very embarrassing. I had to come pull the Jeep out, and it didn’t cause all that too much damage, just labor, not replace any parts. But the Jeep was out of commission for a week or so while they cleaned it out. That's very embarrassing, floated down the river in a Jeep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well that’s pretty, pretty interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I saved the milk samples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well. That's good. Tell me, can you think of any other experiences that were especially memorable?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.638336154706801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I went there and they were kind of humiliating and the farm where I was to get the cow’s milk and it was across the river and one night it rained and rained and rained. And I went out there in the dark in the morning and crossed the river ok. I stayed at the man’s place and when I came back, the river was as high as I had ever seen it. I thought about all the Peace Corps training, about how they said always try. So I started across the river, three deep channels in the river. I got across two of them. On the third one, the water was coming up over the hood of the jeep and the motor conked out. The car began floating down the river, turned over its the side. I got the milk samples, I climbed out, got on top of the thing, it turned over. People lined up all the way along the banks to watch what I was going to do. I finally got out, waited another hour or so for the water to go down, but very embarrassing. I had to come pull the Jeep out, and it didn’t cause all that too much damage, just labor, not replace any parts. But the Jeep was out of commission for a week or so while they cleaned it out. That's very embarrassing, floated down the river in a Jeep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well that’s pretty, pretty interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I saved the milk samples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well. That's good. Tell me, can you think of any other experiences that were especially memorable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "National Geographic photographer came down and wrote a story about us and Peace Corps in Bolivia and it was in the October ’64 issue. And Ed Dennsion was his contact. I lived with Ed so I went around with him. He took thousands of pictures and I was in maybe nine hundred of those pictures, but none of them got in the National Geographic, none of them with me in them. He had about fifteen pictures in the National Geographic. I was in Bolivia. Well, I think it was October ‘64 was that issue I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. And anything that was not funny or not pleasant that happened that you remember?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.269550808280002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "National Geographic photographer came down and wrote a story about us and Peace Corps in Bolivia and it was in the October ’64 issue. And Ed Dennsion was his contact. I lived with Ed so I went around with him. He took thousands of pictures and I was in maybe nine hundred of those pictures, but none of them got in the National Geographic, none of them with me in them. He had about fifteen pictures in the National Geographic. I was in Bolivia. Well, I think it was October ‘64 was that issue I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. And anything that was not funny or not pleasant that happened that you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have the routine work that can be pretty frustrating at times. I’d always lock the Jeep, but things would get stolen out of the Jeep. Anything left unattended would get stolen. Once a man picked my pocket, tried to get my watch out of my pocket. I grabbed him in time and got the watch back. All of that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Assassinated?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was in the early afternoon, we were taking a siesta and Ed Dennison came in and said there’s something on the radio about Kennedy being shot. We walked up, Larry Oglesby and I, to the, I guess, American consulate. And sure enough the news coming in there and Kennedy had been shot and everybody in Bolivia was just devastated. Flags were at half staff. We went to mass on Sunday, which was a special mass for Kennedy. I remember seeing a Bolivian woman, an Indian woman, sitting on the floor nursing a baby in the mass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think it affected people so much in Bolivia?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.410612009200001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have the routine work that can be pretty frustrating at times. I’d always lock the Jeep, but things would get stolen out of the Jeep. Anything left unattended would get stolen. Once a man picked my pocket, tried to get my watch out of my pocket. I grabbed him in time and got the watch back. All of that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Assassinated?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was in the early afternoon, we were taking a siesta and Ed Dennison came in and said there’s something on the radio about Kennedy being shot. We walked up, Larry Oglesby and I, to the, I guess, American consulate. And sure enough the news coming in there and Kennedy had been shot and everybody in Bolivia was just devastated. Flags were at half staff. We went to mass on Sunday, which was a special mass for Kennedy. I remember seeing a Bolivian woman, an Indian woman, sitting on the floor nursing a baby in the mass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think it affected people so much in Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kennedy was extremely popular, partly because he was Catholic, partly because of the Alliance for Progress that was going on there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was pretty impressive. What was traveling around Bolivia, like you said, you had traveled around in Bolivia?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.678457788000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was in the early afternoon, we were taking a siesta and Ed Dennison came in and said there’s something on the radio about Kennedy being shot. We walked up, Larry Oglesby and I, to the, I guess, American consulate. And sure enough the news coming in there and Kennedy had been shot and everybody in Bolivia was just devastated. Flags were at half staff. We went to mass on Sunday, which was a special mass for Kennedy. I remember seeing a Bolivian woman, an Indian woman, sitting on the floor nursing a baby in the mass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think it affected people so much in Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kennedy was extremely popular, partly because he was Catholic, partly because of the Alliance for Progress that was going on there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was pretty impressive. What was traveling around Bolivia, like you said, you had traveled around in Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, I remember I went to Santa Cruz, five or six of us on a bus. The bus caught on fire, the Bolivians guys panicked and screamed and ran to the door. And I noticed all the Peace Corps people sat calmly and everybody else piled off the bus and we kindly got up and walked out the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what happened to the fire?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.08717532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kennedy was extremely popular, partly because he was Catholic, partly because of the Alliance for Progress that was going on there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was pretty impressive. What was traveling around Bolivia, like you said, you had traveled around in Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, I remember I went to Santa Cruz, five or six of us on a bus. The bus caught on fire, the Bolivians guys panicked and screamed and ran to the door. And I noticed all the Peace Corps people sat calmly and everybody else piled off the bus and we kindly got up and walked out the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what happened to the fire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That put out, got the bus fixed, we went on to Santa Cruz. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about that? Is that typical of the bus trips?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.430194799999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, I remember I went to Santa Cruz, five or six of us on a bus. The bus caught on fire, the Bolivians guys panicked and screamed and ran to the door. And I noticed all the Peace Corps people sat calmly and everybody else piled off the bus and we kindly got up and walked out the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what happened to the fire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That put out, got the bus fixed, we went on to Santa Cruz. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about that? Is that typical of the bus trips?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. When I went to Ecuador, I flew from La Paz and I rode the milk truck up to La Paz. Every night the milk plant rode from the leche plant, the milk plant to Laz Paz. And I rode with them to take it to La Paz. And that would go over those very narrow roads, dirt everywhere, coal. But it was free."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That had to be an adventure in and of itself. Did you ever get down to the tropical areas?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.255771999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That put out, got the bus fixed, we went on to Santa Cruz. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about that? Is that typical of the bus trips?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. When I went to Ecuador, I flew from La Paz and I rode the milk truck up to La Paz. Every night the milk plant rode from the leche plant, the milk plant to Laz Paz. And I rode with them to take it to La Paz. And that would go over those very narrow roads, dirt everywhere, coal. But it was free."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That had to be an adventure in and of itself. Did you ever get down to the tropical areas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Once Bill Barnell and George Wright and I, I forgot how we went, it wasn’t a bus, some car, going into the Chicari, over the mountains into the east. We went as far as the road went, I forget the name of the place, but we got on a boat, and went three days on the boat going down the river, a tributary of the Amazon, the Mamoré or something like that, all the way to Trinidad and then we stayed in Trinidad a couple days and flew home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you like the trip?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.081199999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Once Bill Barnell and George Wright and I, I forgot how we went, it wasn’t a bus, some car, going into the Chicari, over the mountains into the east. We went as far as the road went, I forget the name of the place, but we got on a boat, and went three days on the boat going down the river, a tributary of the Amazon, the Mamoré or something like that, all the way to Trinidad and then we stayed in Trinidad a couple days and flew home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you like the trip?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. That was quite an adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In eastern Bolivia just a generation or so ago the people were headhunters and just lived like primitive man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So anything else you can think of about your travels and tribulations around Bolivia?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.867999999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. That was quite an adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In eastern Bolivia just a generation or so ago the people were headhunters and just lived like primitive man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So anything else you can think of about your travels and tribulations around Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got to know a number of the Methodist missionaries there, especially around Santa Cruz. They were down that way. What was this name of the school at Montero?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it was a Methodist school."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.52, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In eastern Bolivia just a generation or so ago the people were headhunters and just lived like primitive man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So anything else you can think of about your travels and tribulations around Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got to know a number of the Methodist missionaries there, especially around Santa Cruz. They were down that way. What was this name of the school at Montero?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it was a Methodist school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. But anyway, I got to know some of those people. And I was we went back in ‘66 and we're with George Wright. We stayed with some of them in Cochabamba and in Montero."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you have any last thoughts about the Peace Corps and its effect?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got to know a number of the Methodist missionaries there, especially around Santa Cruz. They were down that way. What was this name of the school at Montero?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it was a Methodist school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. But anyway, I got to know some of those people. And I was we went back in ‘66 and we're with George Wright. We stayed with some of them in Cochabamba and in Montero."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you have any last thoughts about the Peace Corps and its effect?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When it was a great experience for me. Almost 50 years later, we're still getting together. Numerous people have been able to stay with us in our community, in Auston and in ‘96 and in Spartanburg. And then we've stayed with various ones around over the country when we travel around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a certain amount of."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. But anyway, I got to know some of those people. And I was we went back in ‘66 and we're with George Wright. We stayed with some of them in Cochabamba and in Montero."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you have any last thoughts about the Peace Corps and its effect?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When it was a great experience for me. Almost 50 years later, we're still getting together. Numerous people have been able to stay with us in our community, in Auston and in ‘96 and in Spartanburg. And then we've stayed with various ones around over the country when we travel around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a certain amount of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Camaraderie. Somebody in the Peace Corps came down to evaluate us. And said he liked our group, there was kind of a esprit de corps about the Bolivia II group that you didn't find in other groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think that was?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00246:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When it was a great experience for me. Almost 50 years later, we're still getting together. Numerous people have been able to stay with us in our community, in Auston and in ‘96 and in Spartanburg. And then we've stayed with various ones around over the country when we travel around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a certain amount of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Camaraderie. Somebody in the Peace Corps came down to evaluate us. And said he liked our group, there was kind of a esprit de corps about the Bolivia II group that you didn't find in other groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think that was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe because we'd had an extended training period. Remember in Puerto Rico they extended us because we didn't know enough Spanish and we spent another week on the beach learning Spanish, then we went to Vermont and all that. It was November before we finally got to Bolivia. That was a good experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, thank you, Paul. I think that probably takes care of this."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00623:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 48.867261371661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you want to talk about how you got pulled back into Constellation and then that progression of your responsibilities."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I had heard about Constellation. The ESAS [Exploration Systems Architecture Study] Report was going on and we were supporting that to a certain extent insofar as contributing dollars. The new Constellation Program was standing up and it required a significant amount of funding. Actually NASA was descoping a lot of its R&D [Research and Development] programs to cover it. At that point I was in the donation organization who was relooking at all of our content and prioritizing it so that dollars that had been allocated for applied research could be freed up for Constellation.\\n\\n Mark [S.] Geyer, he was Deputy Program Manager for Constellation, called me and asked me to come over to support Constellation in the Test and Verification Office [T&V] at the time. I had worked with Mark on Space Station before, and he actually worked for me at that time. Now I was working for him. I guess you never know who you’re going to work for here at NASA. Sometimes they work for you and later you work for them. Just make sure you don’t get people mad at you.\\n\\n I came over to Constellation and worked there for about two years in the Test and Verification Office. Ultimately it merged with the SE&I [Systems Engineering and Integration] Office, so I moved and became the Deputy for that combined office where Chris Hardcastle was the lead of that. I don’t know how much more of Constellation you want to talk about here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can talk about it. But I wanted to ask you. In between that time though I believe is when you were at [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, DC] for a few months. You were working the Human Architecture Team? When was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was after I moved to Orion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can talk about that in a few minutes then. But yes, talk more about Constellation and what you were doing before that was canceled."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00623:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are future decisions that are going to be hard. We are resource-constrained. We have a schedule urgency to get this thing built on time, and we have technical issues and hurdles ahead of us. There will constantly be trades moving ahead where we try to balance all those various factors and come up with the best path forward. Those decisions happen quite regularly now, and the decisions seem to be getting harder and harder and harder. Once you get closer and closer to launch, those decisions become more and more meaningful and more and more difficult. I’m just looking forward to the ride ahead because we’re going to have our hands full pulling this off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mark Geyer has said that the Orion Program learned to persevere. Do you agree with that statement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Absolutely. Having the team go through a trial by fire together, being canceled, the hard work and effort to fly a successful flight test, that is a bond that gets the team—it’s like maybe a platoon that’s gone through a couple of battles together becomes much more effective as a team by that common shared experience and overcoming difficulties. I think that’s where the Orion team is today. We’ve overcome difficulties successfully together as a team. That’s why I feel much more confident going forward because of that demonstrated teamwork."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that we haven’t talked about that you want to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we talked about more than I even thought we’d talk about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. If there’s not anything else, then I certainly appreciate you talking to us. Thank you."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.178098905872581, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. What was I doing, you know? I graduated from the University of Texas in Austin. My wife and I were married in November ‘64. I graduated in May of ‘65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What was your subject?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was finance with interest on real estate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point, what was your career goal? Did you have one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I planned to get into real estate. I'd interned with a real estate commercial plan in Houston, Texas, on and off the various summers during college. KLEIN; Where had you grown up?\n\nIn Beaumont, Texas, which is east."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During high school years, did you travel, any extracurricular activities?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.642332117636201, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was finance with interest on real estate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point, what was your career goal? Did you have one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I planned to get into real estate. I'd interned with a real estate commercial plan in Houston, Texas, on and off the various summers during college. KLEIN; Where had you grown up?\n\nIn Beaumont, Texas, which is east."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During high school years, did you travel, any extracurricular activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you went in from Beaumont to Austin. During your college years, again, any travel?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.158146797373557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I planned to get into real estate. I'd interned with a real estate commercial plan in Houston, Texas, on and off the various summers during college. KLEIN; Where had you grown up?\n\nIn Beaumont, Texas, which is east."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During high school years, did you travel, any extracurricular activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you went in from Beaumont to Austin. During your college years, again, any travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nothing extraordinary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you learned a second language or not?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.731274219303952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you went in from Beaumont to Austin. During your college years, again, any travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nothing extraordinary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you learned a second language or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had not. My wife had traveled quite a bit, right, but I did not. After graduation, we went with this firm in Houston to return to get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you both working at that point?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.256971354782168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nothing extraordinary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you learned a second language or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had not. My wife had traveled quite a bit, right, but I did not. After graduation, we went with this firm in Houston to return to get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you both working at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was. She'd been working while I was in college. When got Houston, I just started out on a commission basis, which was not a wise decision for a greenhorn. And so I began supplementing work with newspaper wrap, which was not a strong supplementary secondary form of employment, but right, anyway, the career in real estate was the real life question anyway. But I was able to close a few commercial leases that it was difficult to make ends meet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now during your college years, do you recall when you first heard of the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.841079283091298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had not. My wife had traveled quite a bit, right, but I did not. After graduation, we went with this firm in Houston to return to get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you both working at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was. She'd been working while I was in college. When got Houston, I just started out on a commission basis, which was not a wise decision for a greenhorn. And so I began supplementing work with newspaper wrap, which was not a strong supplementary secondary form of employment, but right, anyway, the career in real estate was the real life question anyway. But I was able to close a few commercial leases that it was difficult to make ends meet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now during your college years, do you recall when you first heard of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, other than I had heard of it. But no, I didn't follow it closely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. But you knew it existed."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.490088092323664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was. She'd been working while I was in college. When got Houston, I just started out on a commission basis, which was not a wise decision for a greenhorn. And so I began supplementing work with newspaper wrap, which was not a strong supplementary secondary form of employment, but right, anyway, the career in real estate was the real life question anyway. But I was able to close a few commercial leases that it was difficult to make ends meet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now during your college years, do you recall when you first heard of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, other than I had heard of it. But no, I didn't follow it closely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. But you knew it existed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, sure. Yeah, it was definitely an attractive exciting adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you hadn't done much travel."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.211208991470738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, other than I had heard of it. But no, I didn't follow it closely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. But you knew it existed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, sure. Yeah, it was definitely an attractive exciting adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you hadn't done much travel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. That's right. And maybe, maybe because I had not done a lot of travel. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s see, ’65, ’66. The draft wasn't a concern."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.901343323856375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, sure. Yeah, it was definitely an attractive exciting adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you hadn't done much travel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. That's right. And maybe, maybe because I had not done a lot of travel. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s see, ’65, ’66. The draft wasn't a concern."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The draft was a concern. In fact, that was that was a strong motivation. My wife was enthused about this whole idea, but in all honesty, that precipitated serious consideration of my alternatives because I was not an enthusiastic supporter of our involvement in Vietnam. And if drafted, I would have gone. I wasn't going to object, I just objected to our involvement in it. So I wanted an alternative. The Peace Corps seemed like an exciting alternative for the two of us. And as it ended up, I don't know what it was, but our draft board or maybe all universal condition with all of the draft boards, was that you could still be drafted out of the Peace Corps. But so we decided as it increasingly became evident that I could be drafted, we’d small steps and some other pursuit, and that's when the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is ’65 or ’66?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4459370265070834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. That's right. And maybe, maybe because I had not done a lot of travel. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s see, ’65, ’66. The draft wasn't a concern."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The draft was a concern. In fact, that was that was a strong motivation. My wife was enthused about this whole idea, but in all honesty, that precipitated serious consideration of my alternatives because I was not an enthusiastic supporter of our involvement in Vietnam. And if drafted, I would have gone. I wasn't going to object, I just objected to our involvement in it. So I wanted an alternative. The Peace Corps seemed like an exciting alternative for the two of us. And as it ended up, I don't know what it was, but our draft board or maybe all universal condition with all of the draft boards, was that you could still be drafted out of the Peace Corps. But so we decided as it increasingly became evident that I could be drafted, we’d small steps and some other pursuit, and that's when the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is ’65 or ’66?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1966. Well, it may have been late ’65. I mean, obviously as the war right worsened as the draft increased."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall the application process?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.0510411405634255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The draft was a concern. In fact, that was that was a strong motivation. My wife was enthused about this whole idea, but in all honesty, that precipitated serious consideration of my alternatives because I was not an enthusiastic supporter of our involvement in Vietnam. And if drafted, I would have gone. I wasn't going to object, I just objected to our involvement in it. So I wanted an alternative. The Peace Corps seemed like an exciting alternative for the two of us. And as it ended up, I don't know what it was, but our draft board or maybe all universal condition with all of the draft boards, was that you could still be drafted out of the Peace Corps. But so we decided as it increasingly became evident that I could be drafted, we’d small steps and some other pursuit, and that's when the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is ’65 or ’66?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1966. Well, it may have been late ’65. I mean, obviously as the war right worsened as the draft increased."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall the application process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, a couple of things. One is you're asked whether you are familiar with a foreign language. And I guess that applies to both you and your wife or either of you. Do you recall, if you know?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.50115682284825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1966. Well, it may have been late ’65. I mean, obviously as the war right worsened as the draft increased."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall the application process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, a couple of things. One is you're asked whether you are familiar with a foreign language. And I guess that applies to both you and your wife or either of you. Do you recall, if you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, we had some broken familiarity with Spanish because we live in Texas. But no, I would not say that we would have a strong second language. And my wife had some study in French, maybe. That was not, it wasn't a speaking level knowledge, but if she had had some foreign language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your wife have a college degree?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.890174247609166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, a couple of things. One is you're asked whether you are familiar with a foreign language. And I guess that applies to both you and your wife or either of you. Do you recall, if you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, we had some broken familiarity with Spanish because we live in Texas. But no, I would not say that we would have a strong second language. And my wife had some study in French, maybe. That was not, it wasn't a speaking level knowledge, but if she had had some foreign language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your wife have a college degree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She did, in English and philosophy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other things in the application is you can indicate a preference, sometimes the type of project or area. Do you recall?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.21130471956574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, we had some broken familiarity with Spanish because we live in Texas. But no, I would not say that we would have a strong second language. And my wife had some study in French, maybe. That was not, it wasn't a speaking level knowledge, but if she had had some foreign language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your wife have a college degree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She did, in English and philosophy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other things in the application is you can indicate a preference, sometimes the type of project or area. Do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we thought India would be neat. You see, we got pretty close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in talking about joining the Peace Corps, what was the reaction of your peers, your family?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5681163550730446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She did, in English and philosophy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other things in the application is you can indicate a preference, sometimes the type of project or area. Do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we thought India would be neat. You see, we got pretty close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in talking about joining the Peace Corps, what was the reaction of your peers, your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, I think they were somewhat dismayed, but I think everyone was dismayed at the volatility of the times. Exactly. Particularly for draft age guys, kids, whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And many people accepted it as a reasonable alternative to going to."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.964573727858938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we thought India would be neat. You see, we got pretty close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in talking about joining the Peace Corps, what was the reaction of your peers, your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, I think they were somewhat dismayed, but I think everyone was dismayed at the volatility of the times. Exactly. Particularly for draft age guys, kids, whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And many people accepted it as a reasonable alternative to going to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, somewhat. Yes, I think some of our friends may have thought it was kind of a wild haired. But everybody was kind of troubled by the pressures of the draft and some involvement with service. I'm sure, as I recall, seeing a lot of people raised eyebrows, but then, you know, the alternatives were not very acceptable either. But it was not, it wasn't as though a lot of people suggested that option to us or suggested, as you know, a form of service either. That was not something familiar with a lot of our peers or friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you filled out the application. Both you and your wife, you were both pretty much committed to going if you were accepted."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.405081919843265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, I think they were somewhat dismayed, but I think everyone was dismayed at the volatility of the times. Exactly. Particularly for draft age guys, kids, whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And many people accepted it as a reasonable alternative to going to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, somewhat. Yes, I think some of our friends may have thought it was kind of a wild haired. But everybody was kind of troubled by the pressures of the draft and some involvement with service. I'm sure, as I recall, seeing a lot of people raised eyebrows, but then, you know, the alternatives were not very acceptable either. But it was not, it wasn't as though a lot of people suggested that option to us or suggested, as you know, a form of service either. That was not something familiar with a lot of our peers or friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you filled out the application. Both you and your wife, you were both pretty much committed to going if you were accepted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were. We were fully aware that this might not pan out and then I could be drafted. And if so, then I would follow the route of being drafted into the service. So that certainly was, it was not clear that the Peace Corps would be acceptable and that they would accept us or that we would, you know, finish the training program. But we made it, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you recall what happened after the application?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7834243553814053, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, somewhat. Yes, I think some of our friends may have thought it was kind of a wild haired. But everybody was kind of troubled by the pressures of the draft and some involvement with service. I'm sure, as I recall, seeing a lot of people raised eyebrows, but then, you know, the alternatives were not very acceptable either. But it was not, it wasn't as though a lot of people suggested that option to us or suggested, as you know, a form of service either. That was not something familiar with a lot of our peers or friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you filled out the application. Both you and your wife, you were both pretty much committed to going if you were accepted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were. We were fully aware that this might not pan out and then I could be drafted. And if so, then I would follow the route of being drafted into the service. So that certainly was, it was not clear that the Peace Corps would be acceptable and that they would accept us or that we would, you know, finish the training program. But we made it, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you recall what happened after the application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. Other than I heard subsequently, you know, there was a lot of background interviews and FBI. Yeah, and that was intriguing. Actually I was glad to know that they did a thorough background check. So, no, I don't recall much more of the process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what, did you finally get a phone call or telegram a letter?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.203804839312673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were. We were fully aware that this might not pan out and then I could be drafted. And if so, then I would follow the route of being drafted into the service. So that certainly was, it was not clear that the Peace Corps would be acceptable and that they would accept us or that we would, you know, finish the training program. But we made it, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you recall what happened after the application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. Other than I heard subsequently, you know, there was a lot of background interviews and FBI. Yeah, and that was intriguing. Actually I was glad to know that they did a thorough background check. So, no, I don't recall much more of the process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what, did you finally get a phone call or telegram a letter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall. It must've been a letter. I would think it would be a letter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you become aware of your assignment and what was going to be?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.559783154791858, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. Other than I heard subsequently, you know, there was a lot of background interviews and FBI. Yeah, and that was intriguing. Actually I was glad to know that they did a thorough background check. So, no, I don't recall much more of the process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what, did you finally get a phone call or telegram a letter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall. It must've been a letter. I would think it would be a letter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you become aware of your assignment and what was going to be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think first of all, I knew you didn't spell India B-R-A-Z-I-L. So I knew right away that our first option didn't get through, and I don't recall if our second option was a Latin American country or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you did get an invitation here to go to Brazil."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.955314616435398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall. It must've been a letter. I would think it would be a letter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you become aware of your assignment and what was going to be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think first of all, I knew you didn't spell India B-R-A-Z-I-L. So I knew right away that our first option didn't get through, and I don't recall if our second option was a Latin American country or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you did get an invitation here to go to Brazil."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true, and I think it may have said community development. I had no earthly idea what all that meant, but what was specific and in fact, it wasn't specific."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at that point, was it the assumption that both you and your wife were going to be volunteers, had volunteer roles?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.394794018261553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think first of all, I knew you didn't spell India B-R-A-Z-I-L. So I knew right away that our first option didn't get through, and I don't recall if our second option was a Latin American country or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you did get an invitation here to go to Brazil."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true, and I think it may have said community development. I had no earthly idea what all that meant, but what was specific and in fact, it wasn't specific."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at that point, was it the assumption that both you and your wife were going to be volunteers, had volunteer roles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. That's the way we applied now, you know, had they accepted only one and not the other? I don't know what we’d do about that. But that's the way we applied, and I think there was another adjunct to that to the job. And maybe that was also educational or secondary education working with, working with teachers. That was part of the program as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so. You applied for a deferment, and I guess you got your board to indicate that would receive it."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.883104464735059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true, and I think it may have said community development. I had no earthly idea what all that meant, but what was specific and in fact, it wasn't specific."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at that point, was it the assumption that both you and your wife were going to be volunteers, had volunteer roles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. That's the way we applied now, you know, had they accepted only one and not the other? I don't know what we’d do about that. But that's the way we applied, and I think there was another adjunct to that to the job. And maybe that was also educational or secondary education working with, working with teachers. That was part of the program as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so. You applied for a deferment, and I guess you got your board to indicate that would receive it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Where did you go? Where were you assigned to go for training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.203449405261177, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. That's the way we applied now, you know, had they accepted only one and not the other? I don't know what we’d do about that. But that's the way we applied, and I think there was another adjunct to that to the job. And maybe that was also educational or secondary education working with, working with teachers. That was part of the program as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so. You applied for a deferment, and I guess you got your board to indicate that would receive it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Where did you go? Where were you assigned to go for training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Brattleboro, Vermont."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the Experiment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5593882280679745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Where did you go? Where were you assigned to go for training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Brattleboro, Vermont."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the Experiment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Experiment in International Living."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in going up to Vermont, then you think the next stop would be Brazil?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9548758089644163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Brattleboro, Vermont."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the Experiment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Experiment in International Living."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in going up to Vermont, then you think the next stop would be Brazil?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you recall the farewell when you're leaving Texas?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.394306454404907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Experiment in International Living."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in going up to Vermont, then you think the next stop would be Brazil?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you recall the farewell when you're leaving Texas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I remember packing up our goods and leaving the cute little duplex that we had rented. We were kind of beginning our own nesting, you know? And everything was just great. And we found that disruptive, but we found it exciting too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your wife's family was OK with it also?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.882562727116563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you recall the farewell when you're leaving Texas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I remember packing up our goods and leaving the cute little duplex that we had rented. We were kind of beginning our own nesting, you know? And everything was just great. And we found that disruptive, but we found it exciting too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your wife's family was OK with it also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, if they weren't, they didn't rattle the cage. And I guess I should say I appreciated that. We didn't feel as though we had many options. As I remember, they were pretty supportive and I think I remember my first two, I think there was there was a risk. It probably admiration and support by all the parents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, certainly in those days, Peace Corps had a fairly good reputation. It was an honorable thing to do."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.4250696967961805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I remember packing up our goods and leaving the cute little duplex that we had rented. We were kind of beginning our own nesting, you know? And everything was just great. And we found that disruptive, but we found it exciting too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your wife's family was OK with it also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, if they weren't, they didn't rattle the cage. And I guess I should say I appreciated that. We didn't feel as though we had many options. As I remember, they were pretty supportive and I think I remember my first two, I think there was there was a risk. It probably admiration and support by all the parents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, certainly in those days, Peace Corps had a fairly good reputation. It was an honorable thing to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And I think people used that. I don't think I don't remember any negative responses from, you know, overt or subtle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you reported up to Brattleboro. Was that your first time on the jets?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.8056329964402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, if they weren't, they didn't rattle the cage. And I guess I should say I appreciated that. We didn't feel as though we had many options. As I remember, they were pretty supportive and I think I remember my first two, I think there was there was a risk. It probably admiration and support by all the parents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, certainly in those days, Peace Corps had a fairly good reputation. It was an honorable thing to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And I think people used that. I don't think I don't remember any negative responses from, you know, overt or subtle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you reported up to Brattleboro. Was that your first time on the jets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, no. But I was not a worldly traveler either. But no, that wasn't the first time I flew. That was a new experience for myself, and in the springtime cold Vermont weather and coming from sunny Texas. I mean, it's cold in the wintertime, is it not like it is here in the spring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what time of year do you start training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1173699960446664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And I think people used that. I don't think I don't remember any negative responses from, you know, overt or subtle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you reported up to Brattleboro. Was that your first time on the jets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, no. But I was not a worldly traveler either. But no, that wasn't the first time I flew. That was a new experience for myself, and in the springtime cold Vermont weather and coming from sunny Texas. I mean, it's cold in the wintertime, is it not like it is here in the spring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what time of year do you start training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think it was around April."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was in the spring."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.352633328938518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, no. But I was not a worldly traveler either. But no, that wasn't the first time I flew. That was a new experience for myself, and in the springtime cold Vermont weather and coming from sunny Texas. I mean, it's cold in the wintertime, is it not like it is here in the spring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what time of year do you start training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think it was around April."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was in the spring."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe March, could have been March."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall reporting? And now you're in the middle of a group of others who've joined the team. You recall your initial impression of the group."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.614037032153909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think it was around April."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was in the spring."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe March, could have been March."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall reporting? And now you're in the middle of a group of others who've joined the team. You recall your initial impression of the group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, I do. Well, motley kind of a crew. We were all, you know, kind of starry eyed and wondering what it was about, but full of a lot of piss and vinegar and was eager to prove ourselves and do something you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many in the group do you recall approximately? On the order of 50 or 100?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9044855912821212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe March, could have been March."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall reporting? And now you're in the middle of a group of others who've joined the team. You recall your initial impression of the group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, I do. Well, motley kind of a crew. We were all, you know, kind of starry eyed and wondering what it was about, but full of a lot of piss and vinegar and was eager to prove ourselves and do something you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many in the group do you recall approximately? On the order of 50 or 100?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think between 50 and. I really don't recall because I know a lot were deselected and didn't make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there other married couples?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.22720621253569, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, I do. Well, motley kind of a crew. We were all, you know, kind of starry eyed and wondering what it was about, but full of a lot of piss and vinegar and was eager to prove ourselves and do something you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many in the group do you recall approximately? On the order of 50 or 100?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think between 50 and. I really don't recall because I know a lot were deselected and didn't make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there other married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the group was generally coed. It wasn't married couples plus men and married couples plus women."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.585784680595211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think between 50 and. I really don't recall because I know a lot were deselected and didn't make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there other married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the group was generally coed. It wasn't married couples plus men and married couples plus women."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. Yes. That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And now let's talk about the training itself. Generally, the components are area studies. You learn about your technical studies, depending on where you're going to go, so there can be some level of language training. Let's talk about those elements in training."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9842052006613455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the group was generally coed. It wasn't married couples plus men and married couples plus women."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. Yes. That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And now let's talk about the training itself. Generally, the components are area studies. You learn about your technical studies, depending on where you're going to go, so there can be some level of language training. Let's talk about those elements in training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Well, I thought they had a good program. I fault myself on the language only because that was a struggle for me. As I thought, the technical side of the training was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were they training in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.426894667401495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. Yes. That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And now let's talk about the training itself. Generally, the components are area studies. You learn about your technical studies, depending on where you're going to go, so there can be some level of language training. Let's talk about those elements in training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Well, I thought they had a good program. I fault myself on the language only because that was a struggle for me. As I thought, the technical side of the training was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were they training in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any eventuality of any possible thing which was covered. It was difficult to train in everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's kind of generic area development."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.9187718526683275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Well, I thought they had a good program. I fault myself on the language only because that was a struggle for me. As I thought, the technical side of the training was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were they training in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any eventuality of any possible thing which was covered. It was difficult to train in everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's kind of generic area development."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the community development thing that was a, in fact, that was a criticism we had at the end of our service, that it was too generic for young kids to sometimes get their hands around. And yet I love flexibility, I love not being tied down, but there is such a lack of structure that it was frustrating when I was in training, but in reality in Peace Corps. What I what I think would have been better with would have been to have some structured activity that was required, but then to have some time to allow for flexibility such that if you envisioned a need in some area that's being unmet, that could be met and there would be a demand for it, then you could apply energies in that area to the country. But in the meantime, you would have there would be structure to your life too. That would give you some sense of, you know, anchor, that's what we didn't have. And that's what caused so much frustration throughout."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When do you recall any outstanding speakers or trainers at training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.465302058520364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any eventuality of any possible thing which was covered. It was difficult to train in everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's kind of generic area development."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the community development thing that was a, in fact, that was a criticism we had at the end of our service, that it was too generic for young kids to sometimes get their hands around. And yet I love flexibility, I love not being tied down, but there is such a lack of structure that it was frustrating when I was in training, but in reality in Peace Corps. What I what I think would have been better with would have been to have some structured activity that was required, but then to have some time to allow for flexibility such that if you envisioned a need in some area that's being unmet, that could be met and there would be a demand for it, then you could apply energies in that area to the country. But in the meantime, you would have there would be structure to your life too. That would give you some sense of, you know, anchor, that's what we didn't have. And that's what caused so much frustration throughout."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When do you recall any outstanding speakers or trainers at training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember a doctor that we had. He did seem to have a warm personality and did seem to relate to people very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the medical training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.961446731689293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the community development thing that was a, in fact, that was a criticism we had at the end of our service, that it was too generic for young kids to sometimes get their hands around. And yet I love flexibility, I love not being tied down, but there is such a lack of structure that it was frustrating when I was in training, but in reality in Peace Corps. What I what I think would have been better with would have been to have some structured activity that was required, but then to have some time to allow for flexibility such that if you envisioned a need in some area that's being unmet, that could be met and there would be a demand for it, then you could apply energies in that area to the country. But in the meantime, you would have there would be structure to your life too. That would give you some sense of, you know, anchor, that's what we didn't have. And that's what caused so much frustration throughout."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When do you recall any outstanding speakers or trainers at training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember a doctor that we had. He did seem to have a warm personality and did seem to relate to people very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the medical training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in Brattleboro, Vermont. And he was from the area. I don't know where he was from the state of or not from other states in the northeast part, but really nice guy. Seems like Bob George may have been the head of training there, and I thought he was effective. In fact, I remember most of the staffers being effective and helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the language organized, did you break into small groups?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.512718590765881, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember a doctor that we had. He did seem to have a warm personality and did seem to relate to people very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the medical training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in Brattleboro, Vermont. And he was from the area. I don't know where he was from the state of or not from other states in the northeast part, but really nice guy. Seems like Bob George may have been the head of training there, and I thought he was effective. In fact, I remember most of the staffers being effective and helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the language organized, did you break into small groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if you had any sense that if you didn't get up to a certain level in Portuguese that you weren't going to go?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1252428786287565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in Brattleboro, Vermont. And he was from the area. I don't know where he was from the state of or not from other states in the northeast part, but really nice guy. Seems like Bob George may have been the head of training there, and I thought he was effective. In fact, I remember most of the staffers being effective and helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the language organized, did you break into small groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if you had any sense that if you didn't get up to a certain level in Portuguese that you weren't going to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall that. I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't be surprised that that might have been asked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any field studies, going out to study community?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.805825420698618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if you had any sense that if you didn't get up to a certain level in Portuguese that you weren't going to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall that. I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't be surprised that that might have been asked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any field studies, going out to study community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that organized?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.562028245220686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall that. I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't be surprised that that might have been asked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any field studies, going out to study community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that organized?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they dropped you off in a little outlying towns. Now that, it was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the two of you, though."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.18003138357854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that organized?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they dropped you off in a little outlying towns. Now that, it was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the two of you, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely a challenge. And they’d give you like 25 dollars for the weekend or so. It's kind of interesting, but it required such an indulgence on the community for families that, you know, kids roaming around trying to do things. I think the objective is to understand that [inaudible], which were an acronym for, you know, movers and shakers of the community and what the community did. To take matters and cameras or something with acronyms for learning about the movers, shakers and what the community does or how it gets things done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In two and a half days."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.644479315087267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they dropped you off in a little outlying towns. Now that, it was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the two of you, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely a challenge. And they’d give you like 25 dollars for the weekend or so. It's kind of interesting, but it required such an indulgence on the community for families that, you know, kids roaming around trying to do things. I think the objective is to understand that [inaudible], which were an acronym for, you know, movers and shakers of the community and what the community did. To take matters and cameras or something with acronyms for learning about the movers, shakers and what the community does or how it gets things done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In two and a half days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, by the way. Yeah. And by the way, figure out how to stretch $25 over a weekend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had to find a place to stay?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8271992389858518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely a challenge. And they’d give you like 25 dollars for the weekend or so. It's kind of interesting, but it required such an indulgence on the community for families that, you know, kids roaming around trying to do things. I think the objective is to understand that [inaudible], which were an acronym for, you know, movers and shakers of the community and what the community did. To take matters and cameras or something with acronyms for learning about the movers, shakers and what the community does or how it gets things done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In two and a half days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, by the way. Yeah. And by the way, figure out how to stretch $25 over a weekend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had to find a place to stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And find a place to stay and eat. And so we ended up, I don't remember, barging in on a Congregationalist minister and his family in, I can't remember this town in Massachusetts. Oh, North Adams, Massachusetts. Nice, nice people. Took us in. Anyway, it was just it was surprising and we were chatting away. But they were nice to us. And so we went through the exercise and it was it was a mental training of just learning how to evaluate size up a situation and see what I could be use of what's needed and how it operates and how to effectively work with the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back from that weekend, did you have a chance to process with the group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0302213766509465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, by the way. Yeah. And by the way, figure out how to stretch $25 over a weekend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had to find a place to stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And find a place to stay and eat. And so we ended up, I don't remember, barging in on a Congregationalist minister and his family in, I can't remember this town in Massachusetts. Oh, North Adams, Massachusetts. Nice, nice people. Took us in. Anyway, it was just it was surprising and we were chatting away. But they were nice to us. And so we went through the exercise and it was it was a mental training of just learning how to evaluate size up a situation and see what I could be use of what's needed and how it operates and how to effectively work with the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back from that weekend, did you have a chance to process with the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to share the experiences."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2558015296121625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And find a place to stay and eat. And so we ended up, I don't remember, barging in on a Congregationalist minister and his family in, I can't remember this town in Massachusetts. Oh, North Adams, Massachusetts. Nice, nice people. Took us in. Anyway, it was just it was surprising and we were chatting away. But they were nice to us. And so we went through the exercise and it was it was a mental training of just learning how to evaluate size up a situation and see what I could be use of what's needed and how it operates and how to effectively work with the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back from that weekend, did you have a chance to process with the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to share the experiences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, so that we'd learn how other people, what stumbling blocks they encountered or what successes they encountered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did anyone stand up and say, well, these skills are what you might be using when you get to Brazil?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.506446144013514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to share the experiences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, so that we'd learn how other people, what stumbling blocks they encountered or what successes they encountered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did anyone stand up and say, well, these skills are what you might be using when you get to Brazil?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anyone from any former volunteers or any Brazils staff members who provided training there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.784940160015015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, so that we'd learn how other people, what stumbling blocks they encountered or what successes they encountered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did anyone stand up and say, well, these skills are what you might be using when you get to Brazil?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anyone from any former volunteers or any Brazils staff members who provided training there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There some former volunteers in Brazil that had returned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how were they used in training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0943779555722393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anyone from any former volunteers or any Brazils staff members who provided training there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There some former volunteers in Brazil that had returned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how were they used in training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess more in the cultural side of training and trying to relate what to expect, how to cope with, you know, the challenges and the cultural differences and what life is like for a volunteer there. The do's and don'ts, to avoid pitfalls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was anyone saying that this is what you likely to be doing once you get to Brazil with any specificity?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.438197728413599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There some former volunteers in Brazil that had returned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how were they used in training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess more in the cultural side of training and trying to relate what to expect, how to cope with, you know, the challenges and the cultural differences and what life is like for a volunteer there. The do's and don'ts, to avoid pitfalls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was anyone saying that this is what you likely to be doing once you get to Brazil with any specificity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, not specifically. But yeah, they did attempt to say, here are ideas of community development. Have a water project, maybe a sanitation project, maybe help with a garden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the implication was that whatever assignment you had, it would be the both of you."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.820219698237332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess more in the cultural side of training and trying to relate what to expect, how to cope with, you know, the challenges and the cultural differences and what life is like for a volunteer there. The do's and don'ts, to avoid pitfalls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was anyone saying that this is what you likely to be doing once you get to Brazil with any specificity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, not specifically. But yeah, they did attempt to say, here are ideas of community development. Have a water project, maybe a sanitation project, maybe help with a garden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the implication was that whatever assignment you had, it would be the both of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. The community development is so flexible. [cough] I'm getting over a cold. Let me stop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew you'd be assigned with your wife. But it was open ended enough that she might end up teaching and you might end up digging latrines."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.244688553597036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, not specifically. But yeah, they did attempt to say, here are ideas of community development. Have a water project, maybe a sanitation project, maybe help with a garden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the implication was that whatever assignment you had, it would be the both of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. The community development is so flexible. [cough] I'm getting over a cold. Let me stop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew you'd be assigned with your wife. But it was open ended enough that she might end up teaching and you might end up digging latrines."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's exactly what happened. Because, you know, because of the kind of the. It's still culturally Victorian and men didn't work that well with women. Women work better with women, and most of the teachers are women. Therefore, I just wasn't able to develop the rapport that I thought was necessary to be effective with the women teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew you knew that going in."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.716320615107818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. The community development is so flexible. [cough] I'm getting over a cold. Let me stop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew you'd be assigned with your wife. But it was open ended enough that she might end up teaching and you might end up digging latrines."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's exactly what happened. Because, you know, because of the kind of the. It's still culturally Victorian and men didn't work that well with women. Women work better with women, and most of the teachers are women. Therefore, I just wasn't able to develop the rapport that I thought was necessary to be effective with the women teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew you knew that going in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. I didn't know that. Maybe I should have picked up on it. Maybe they told me, but I didn't do it, too. I was surprised about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two other things about training. The Experiment had been associated with the kind of Outward Bound type of training. And I gather that's where you, you know, jump tall buildings, go up cliffs."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.240356239008686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's exactly what happened. Because, you know, because of the kind of the. It's still culturally Victorian and men didn't work that well with women. Women work better with women, and most of the teachers are women. Therefore, I just wasn't able to develop the rapport that I thought was necessary to be effective with the women teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew you knew that going in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. I didn't know that. Maybe I should have picked up on it. Maybe they told me, but I didn't do it, too. I was surprised about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two other things about training. The Experiment had been associated with the kind of Outward Bound type of training. And I gather that's where you, you know, jump tall buildings, go up cliffs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't have any. The other part of training is the selection process. And how did that play out?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.822618043342985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. I didn't know that. Maybe I should have picked up on it. Maybe they told me, but I didn't do it, too. I was surprised about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two other things about training. The Experiment had been associated with the kind of Outward Bound type of training. And I gather that's where you, you know, jump tall buildings, go up cliffs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't have any. The other part of training is the selection process. And how did that play out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fine. I mean, as I recall, several psychologists, maybe psychiatrists, but I remember having various interviews. I thought that was fine. I was comfortable about it. Other people were not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Together or separately?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.469575603714428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't have any. The other part of training is the selection process. And how did that play out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fine. I mean, as I recall, several psychologists, maybe psychiatrists, but I remember having various interviews. I thought that was fine. I was comfortable about it. Other people were not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Together or separately?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what, I think separately, but I would think that it would have been wise to interview us jointly as well. I don't know if they did that. I don't recall. I would guess that they may have been a good idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then very often there's a lot of tension about selection, mid selection and then there's a final."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.188417337460475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fine. I mean, as I recall, several psychologists, maybe psychiatrists, but I remember having various interviews. I thought that was fine. I was comfortable about it. Other people were not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Together or separately?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what, I think separately, but I would think that it would have been wise to interview us jointly as well. I don't know if they did that. I don't recall. I would guess that they may have been a good idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then very often there's a lot of tension about selection, mid selection and then there's a final."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is. That's right. And I remember a lot of people. Some teeth gnashing over some of that and some disappointments, I think, in some who will be deselected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the group coalesce at all in trying to oppose some of the deselectees?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.987130374956083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what, I think separately, but I would think that it would have been wise to interview us jointly as well. I don't know if they did that. I don't recall. I would guess that they may have been a good idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then very often there's a lot of tension about selection, mid selection and then there's a final."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is. That's right. And I remember a lot of people. Some teeth gnashing over some of that and some disappointments, I think, in some who will be deselected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the group coalesce at all in trying to oppose some of the deselectees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a little bit. Sure. You do really build some strong bonds within a short, intense training time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's true. So a final selection comes and the group has been pared down."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.541255972173425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is. That's right. And I remember a lot of people. Some teeth gnashing over some of that and some disappointments, I think, in some who will be deselected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the group coalesce at all in trying to oppose some of the deselectees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a little bit. Sure. You do really build some strong bonds within a short, intense training time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's true. So a final selection comes and the group has been pared down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We actually, we had two different training areas. We trained in Brattleboro, Vermont, came home briefly, went back and trained for, let's say, two to three weeks in Scranton, Pennsylvania."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was this to be all field work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1569510801926945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a little bit. Sure. You do really build some strong bonds within a short, intense training time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's true. So a final selection comes and the group has been pared down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We actually, we had two different training areas. We trained in Brattleboro, Vermont, came home briefly, went back and trained for, let's say, two to three weeks in Scranton, Pennsylvania."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was this to be all field work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, sort of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the whole group go there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.84105675576966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We actually, we had two different training areas. We trained in Brattleboro, Vermont, came home briefly, went back and trained for, let's say, two to three weeks in Scranton, Pennsylvania."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was this to be all field work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, sort of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the whole group go there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the whole group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you spend your time? Did language continue?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.6011741730774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, sort of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the whole group go there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the whole group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you spend your time? Did language continue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, language continued."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of that. Is there a large Portuguese population in Scranton?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.44574908119711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the whole group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you spend your time? Did language continue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, language continued."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of that. Is there a large Portuguese population in Scranton?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to my knowledge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do? How would you spend your three weeks?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.384165645774567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, language continued."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of that. Is there a large Portuguese population in Scranton?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to my knowledge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do? How would you spend your three weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Going to the local health department going with them out to see health conditions in the poor areas. I know they had that problems in the city. They want to show us how they were eradicating rats and I remember that. I remember the eternal coal mine fires that were burning all the time. I don't recall why they decided to make such a logistical right from Brattleboro to Scranton. Maybe it could have been something just as simple as they had another group coming back into Brattleboro, Vermont, and couldn't give us any more time. I never knew the reason. Maybe it was that Scranton had something that was vital for us to learn. Afraid I may have missed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you get through the Scranton phase."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.426850717527296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to my knowledge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do? How would you spend your three weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Going to the local health department going with them out to see health conditions in the poor areas. I know they had that problems in the city. They want to show us how they were eradicating rats and I remember that. I remember the eternal coal mine fires that were burning all the time. I don't recall why they decided to make such a logistical right from Brattleboro to Scranton. Maybe it could have been something just as simple as they had another group coming back into Brattleboro, Vermont, and couldn't give us any more time. I never knew the reason. Maybe it was that Scranton had something that was vital for us to learn. Afraid I may have missed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you get through the Scranton phase."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Come home, wrap up things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No second thoughts on your little bit of home leave?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.58538968614144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Going to the local health department going with them out to see health conditions in the poor areas. I know they had that problems in the city. They want to show us how they were eradicating rats and I remember that. I remember the eternal coal mine fires that were burning all the time. I don't recall why they decided to make such a logistical right from Brattleboro to Scranton. Maybe it could have been something just as simple as they had another group coming back into Brattleboro, Vermont, and couldn't give us any more time. I never knew the reason. Maybe it was that Scranton had something that was vital for us to learn. Afraid I may have missed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you get through the Scranton phase."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Come home, wrap up things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No second thoughts on your little bit of home leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. In fact, we were pretty excited. We were really eager to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you developed any close friends within the group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.872655206823822, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Come home, wrap up things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No second thoughts on your little bit of home leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. In fact, we were pretty excited. We were really eager to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you developed any close friends within the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had developed friends. Yeah, well, I wouldn't say close enough yet. You know, we were still we were still trying to. We were enthused. But you know, still, there's trepidation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure. And you had no idea of where in Brazil you were going to be going. I mean, it's a huge country."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.74739467424869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. In fact, we were pretty excited. We were really eager to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you developed any close friends within the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had developed friends. Yeah, well, I wouldn't say close enough yet. You know, we were still we were still trying to. We were enthused. But you know, still, there's trepidation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure. And you had no idea of where in Brazil you were going to be going. I mean, it's a huge country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is a huge country. Yeah. And it's like you're going to Canada or the U.S., India and China. That's a huge country. But we didn't get an inkling of where we were going right until we got into Rio, which is what we flew in. People began asking us for where we were going to be stationed. It's [inaudible]. Oh. And you knew there was more there was something that you thought they weren't listening when they talked in training. So we heard our book here now to find out more about the state of [inaudible]. It's just a poor country in the northeast part of Brazil. Beautiful area, but it's not a Rio or a Sao Paolo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it coastal?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.719327415831879, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had developed friends. Yeah, well, I wouldn't say close enough yet. You know, we were still we were still trying to. We were enthused. But you know, still, there's trepidation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure. And you had no idea of where in Brazil you were going to be going. I mean, it's a huge country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is a huge country. Yeah. And it's like you're going to Canada or the U.S., India and China. That's a huge country. But we didn't get an inkling of where we were going right until we got into Rio, which is what we flew in. People began asking us for where we were going to be stationed. It's [inaudible]. Oh. And you knew there was more there was something that you thought they weren't listening when they talked in training. So we heard our book here now to find out more about the state of [inaudible]. It's just a poor country in the northeast part of Brazil. Beautiful area, but it's not a Rio or a Sao Paolo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it coastal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the state is coastal, and the city we were in was inland a ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you got to Rio, did the group stay together very long?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.688141573146531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is a huge country. Yeah. And it's like you're going to Canada or the U.S., India and China. That's a huge country. But we didn't get an inkling of where we were going right until we got into Rio, which is what we flew in. People began asking us for where we were going to be stationed. It's [inaudible]. Oh. And you knew there was more there was something that you thought they weren't listening when they talked in training. So we heard our book here now to find out more about the state of [inaudible]. It's just a poor country in the northeast part of Brazil. Beautiful area, but it's not a Rio or a Sao Paolo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it coastal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the state is coastal, and the city we were in was inland a ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you got to Rio, did the group stay together very long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would guess for maybe a week, but it was orientation, Peace Corps kind of orientation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at any point did anyone ask you if you had a preference for where you were assigned or did you sense was that you going to go where they sent you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.76460174794059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the state is coastal, and the city we were in was inland a ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you got to Rio, did the group stay together very long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would guess for maybe a week, but it was orientation, Peace Corps kind of orientation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at any point did anyone ask you if you had a preference for where you were assigned or did you sense was that you going to go where they sent you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were just going to go where they sent us. There were some there were some people that I think they were just a little more savvy than we were, who found out a little more information. And they began kind of, not politicking, but they decided to do a little promoting of maybe some areas that they thought might work better for them because of their expertise. And as it ended up, one of them did a pretty good job in order to get there. No, we were just going to go along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you might assume that Peace Corps saw a married couple as stable and more possibly better able to handle an isolated society."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.960668608822878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would guess for maybe a week, but it was orientation, Peace Corps kind of orientation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at any point did anyone ask you if you had a preference for where you were assigned or did you sense was that you going to go where they sent you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were just going to go where they sent us. There were some there were some people that I think they were just a little more savvy than we were, who found out a little more information. And they began kind of, not politicking, but they decided to do a little promoting of maybe some areas that they thought might work better for them because of their expertise. And as it ended up, one of them did a pretty good job in order to get there. No, we were just going to go along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you might assume that Peace Corps saw a married couple as stable and more possibly better able to handle an isolated society."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's true. But that is true. And I assume they might have looked on it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you begin dealing with Brazilians?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 8.845187343136532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were just going to go where they sent us. There were some there were some people that I think they were just a little more savvy than we were, who found out a little more information. And they began kind of, not politicking, but they decided to do a little promoting of maybe some areas that they thought might work better for them because of their expertise. And as it ended up, one of them did a pretty good job in order to get there. No, we were just going to go along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you might assume that Peace Corps saw a married couple as stable and more possibly better able to handle an isolated society."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's true. But that is true. And I assume they might have looked on it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you begin dealing with Brazilians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As soon as we, well, we left flew out of New York to Rio, and as I say, it was a brief orientation period, maybe up as long as a week. From there, we then flew out from there. In our case, you know, our group was primarily in the northeast part of Brazil in the states of Alagoas, Ceará. I don't remember all of the states."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was like a regional outpost."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.05020815904059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's true. But that is true. And I assume they might have looked on it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you begin dealing with Brazilians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As soon as we, well, we left flew out of New York to Rio, and as I say, it was a brief orientation period, maybe up as long as a week. From there, we then flew out from there. In our case, you know, our group was primarily in the northeast part of Brazil in the states of Alagoas, Ceará. I don't remember all of the states."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was like a regional outpost."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in the northeast, part northeast, part Brazil is. Well, the whole country of South America is like that. Brazil is kind of like this much and the northeast is up here. Largest town is Recife in the state of Pernambuco. Alagoas is just a small state here and its capital is Maceió. Rio, Sao Paulo, Brasilia, Salvador. Some of the better exciting communities. But anyway, you fly in here and we just flew back up here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the area tropical?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2780090656006555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As soon as we, well, we left flew out of New York to Rio, and as I say, it was a brief orientation period, maybe up as long as a week. From there, we then flew out from there. In our case, you know, our group was primarily in the northeast part of Brazil in the states of Alagoas, Ceará. I don't remember all of the states."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was like a regional outpost."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in the northeast, part northeast, part Brazil is. Well, the whole country of South America is like that. Brazil is kind of like this much and the northeast is up here. Largest town is Recife in the state of Pernambuco. Alagoas is just a small state here and its capital is Maceió. Rio, Sao Paulo, Brasilia, Salvador. Some of the better exciting communities. But anyway, you fly in here and we just flew back up here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the area tropical?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. Yeah. Sugarcane region."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you really you're getting down to it, I mean."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.531121184000728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in the northeast, part northeast, part Brazil is. Well, the whole country of South America is like that. Brazil is kind of like this much and the northeast is up here. Largest town is Recife in the state of Pernambuco. Alagoas is just a small state here and its capital is Maceió. Rio, Sao Paulo, Brasilia, Salvador. Some of the better exciting communities. But anyway, you fly in here and we just flew back up here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the area tropical?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. Yeah. Sugarcane region."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you really you're getting down to it, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we come into Maceió and we have another orientation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, who's running it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7012457600008088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. Yeah. Sugarcane region."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you really you're getting down to it, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we come into Maceió and we have another orientation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, who's running it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Peace Corps. And they designed an orientation for, first of all, in the city of Maceió just to get people from the host country again, kind of learning relating with the Brazilians. But they're in a controlled environment with all your buddies are still now. Not totally, you know, out of wack, but their orientation is within the city of the capital of Maceió.\n\nAt this point, then they designed an orientation program where all of volunteers would go out and visit other in-country volunteers at their homes. You know, and in fact, it may be a group that split up a group of five or 10 go to one small little town, learn what that volunteer has been working on. Meet the people he works with. Just get a taste of daily life they live through, and then you rotate. From there, then go to see another volunteer. People there went back here and kind of rode around. So you get a nice smattering of experience from other people in the field. That was smart and helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But was anyone saying, you know, in which setting you feel more comfortable?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8902730666675653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we come into Maceió and we have another orientation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, who's running it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Peace Corps. And they designed an orientation for, first of all, in the city of Maceió just to get people from the host country again, kind of learning relating with the Brazilians. But they're in a controlled environment with all your buddies are still now. Not totally, you know, out of wack, but their orientation is within the city of the capital of Maceió.\n\nAt this point, then they designed an orientation program where all of volunteers would go out and visit other in-country volunteers at their homes. You know, and in fact, it may be a group that split up a group of five or 10 go to one small little town, learn what that volunteer has been working on. Meet the people he works with. Just get a taste of daily life they live through, and then you rotate. From there, then go to see another volunteer. People there went back here and kind of rode around. So you get a nice smattering of experience from other people in the field. That was smart and helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But was anyone saying, you know, in which setting you feel more comfortable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm not following."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you've seen four or five different sites, were they trying to get some impression from you where you might fit in? What kind of situation?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.100303407408406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Peace Corps. And they designed an orientation for, first of all, in the city of Maceió just to get people from the host country again, kind of learning relating with the Brazilians. But they're in a controlled environment with all your buddies are still now. Not totally, you know, out of wack, but their orientation is within the city of the capital of Maceió.\n\nAt this point, then they designed an orientation program where all of volunteers would go out and visit other in-country volunteers at their homes. You know, and in fact, it may be a group that split up a group of five or 10 go to one small little town, learn what that volunteer has been working on. Meet the people he works with. Just get a taste of daily life they live through, and then you rotate. From there, then go to see another volunteer. People there went back here and kind of rode around. So you get a nice smattering of experience from other people in the field. That was smart and helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But was anyone saying, you know, in which setting you feel more comfortable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm not following."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you've seen four or five different sites, were they trying to get some impression from you where you might fit in? What kind of situation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably, probably. But it wasn't explicit. No, probably community development still so all-encompassing so anything goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of the existing volunteers you dealt with say, this is a disaster, you're wasting your time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3336704526760066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm not following."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you've seen four or five different sites, were they trying to get some impression from you where you might fit in? What kind of situation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably, probably. But it wasn't explicit. No, probably community development still so all-encompassing so anything goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of the existing volunteers you dealt with say, this is a disaster, you're wasting your time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, some of them, sure. I think all volunteers have gone through some of that, at least for these type programs, because it really taps the frustration of people. I don't know how you found your experience, but yours sounds very structured to me. There’s something new that needed to be done. And you could do it and feel you can feel some sense of satisfaction. What was expected of us was pretty nebulous. What resulted was pretty nebulous. The sense of satisfaction was illusive. So it was, that foments frustration, and we felt that from the people that had been in the field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they articulated, they weren’t just being nice?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.592967169640007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably, probably. But it wasn't explicit. No, probably community development still so all-encompassing so anything goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of the existing volunteers you dealt with say, this is a disaster, you're wasting your time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, some of them, sure. I think all volunteers have gone through some of that, at least for these type programs, because it really taps the frustration of people. I don't know how you found your experience, but yours sounds very structured to me. There’s something new that needed to be done. And you could do it and feel you can feel some sense of satisfaction. What was expected of us was pretty nebulous. What resulted was pretty nebulous. The sense of satisfaction was illusive. So it was, that foments frustration, and we felt that from the people that had been in the field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they articulated, they weren’t just being nice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They weren't necessarily saying it's because of the way the program was. But add to that just the idealistic desire of accomplishing something and realizing you can’t accomplish what you were supposed to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, no one turned to the Peace Corps staff and said, you brought me all these thousands of miles just to do this? I mean, doesn't the Peace Corps staff have some obligation to structure?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.881074632933341, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, some of them, sure. I think all volunteers have gone through some of that, at least for these type programs, because it really taps the frustration of people. I don't know how you found your experience, but yours sounds very structured to me. There’s something new that needed to be done. And you could do it and feel you can feel some sense of satisfaction. What was expected of us was pretty nebulous. What resulted was pretty nebulous. The sense of satisfaction was illusive. So it was, that foments frustration, and we felt that from the people that had been in the field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they articulated, they weren’t just being nice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They weren't necessarily saying it's because of the way the program was. But add to that just the idealistic desire of accomplishing something and realizing you can’t accomplish what you were supposed to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, no one turned to the Peace Corps staff and said, you brought me all these thousands of miles just to do this? I mean, doesn't the Peace Corps staff have some obligation to structure?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure that frustration was taken out on staff. I don't know if it’s taken out in those words, but definitely it was taken out on staff because everybody looks for a scapegoat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any point in these first couple of weeks when you and your wife said, oh my God, we're in Brazil on a mistake?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2011940365926015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They weren't necessarily saying it's because of the way the program was. But add to that just the idealistic desire of accomplishing something and realizing you can’t accomplish what you were supposed to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, no one turned to the Peace Corps staff and said, you brought me all these thousands of miles just to do this? I mean, doesn't the Peace Corps staff have some obligation to structure?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure that frustration was taken out on staff. I don't know if it’s taken out in those words, but definitely it was taken out on staff because everybody looks for a scapegoat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any point in these first couple of weeks when you and your wife said, oh my God, we're in Brazil on a mistake?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not. Well, that may be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you? You must have had some hesitation at that point about what are we doing here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.556882262880668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure that frustration was taken out on staff. I don't know if it’s taken out in those words, but definitely it was taken out on staff because everybody looks for a scapegoat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any point in these first couple of weeks when you and your wife said, oh my God, we're in Brazil on a mistake?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not. Well, that may be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you? You must have had some hesitation at that point about what are we doing here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, we were wondering all the time. Did we make the right decision? Just like most of us, we are respected by the service. You know, although I don't think that that really was not something set in deeply with us. We felt we felt pretty good about this. We weren't comfortable with how things were working out because they weren't working out yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, let's get you to this in-country training now finally comes to an end. And now you're going to be assigned as a volunteer."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9520914032007424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not. Well, that may be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you? You must have had some hesitation at that point about what are we doing here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, we were wondering all the time. Did we make the right decision? Just like most of us, we are respected by the service. You know, although I don't think that that really was not something set in deeply with us. We felt we felt pretty good about this. We weren't comfortable with how things were working out because they weren't working out yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, let's get you to this in-country training now finally comes to an end. And now you're going to be assigned as a volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Now there were some input. We, you know, we talked about, what we might be more comfortable with. Some people were in little interior towns have had, you know, 100 people, some in towns that might have been 30,000 people. We ended up being placed on a town of, I would guess is 2,800, 3,000. That was just I was fine with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you the only volunteers there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.280101559111936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, we were wondering all the time. Did we make the right decision? Just like most of us, we are respected by the service. You know, although I don't think that that really was not something set in deeply with us. We felt we felt pretty good about this. We weren't comfortable with how things were working out because they weren't working out yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, let's get you to this in-country training now finally comes to an end. And now you're going to be assigned as a volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Now there were some input. We, you know, we talked about, what we might be more comfortable with. Some people were in little interior towns have had, you know, 100 people, some in towns that might have been 30,000 people. We ended up being placed on a town of, I would guess is 2,800, 3,000. That was just I was fine with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you the only volunteers there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were the only Americans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the first volunteers there. There hadn't been any."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.644557287902151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Now there were some input. We, you know, we talked about, what we might be more comfortable with. Some people were in little interior towns have had, you know, 100 people, some in towns that might have been 30,000 people. We ended up being placed on a town of, I would guess is 2,800, 3,000. That was just I was fine with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you the only volunteers there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were the only Americans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the first volunteers there. There hadn't been any."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct. So first and only volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there's no place to go but up."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.049508097669056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were the only Americans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the first volunteers there. There hadn't been any."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct. So first and only volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there's no place to go but up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's true. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talk about arriving in the town and settling in. You have to have a house, a place to live."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.277231219632285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct. So first and only volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there's no place to go but up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's true. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talk about arriving in the town and settling in. You have to have a house, a place to live."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, sure, it finally came down to dropping us off in the first town and it was Atalaia, Alagoas, sugarcane region town, about two hours, maybe from the capital by bus. We are scared little rabbits, you know? But there really wasn't need. Everybody was gracious, warm. We had all kinds of exuberance, welcome, welcoming, by all the local people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How are you doing with the Portuguese at this point?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5302569107025388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's true. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talk about arriving in the town and settling in. You have to have a house, a place to live."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, sure, it finally came down to dropping us off in the first town and it was Atalaia, Alagoas, sugarcane region town, about two hours, maybe from the capital by bus. We are scared little rabbits, you know? But there really wasn't need. Everybody was gracious, warm. We had all kinds of exuberance, welcome, welcoming, by all the local people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How are you doing with the Portuguese at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were stumbling, but people were generous in their understanding of our broken language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You couldn't fall back on English."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8113965674472654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, sure, it finally came down to dropping us off in the first town and it was Atalaia, Alagoas, sugarcane region town, about two hours, maybe from the capital by bus. We are scared little rabbits, you know? But there really wasn't need. Everybody was gracious, warm. We had all kinds of exuberance, welcome, welcoming, by all the local people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How are you doing with the Portuguese at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were stumbling, but people were generous in their understanding of our broken language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You couldn't fall back on English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because. Oh, I'll take it back. There was there were there were a few people in town who knew a little bit of English, who were eager to, you know, improve on their English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming into the town, was there any counterpart or mentor or structure that against which you were going to work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.123773963830295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were stumbling, but people were generous in their understanding of our broken language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You couldn't fall back on English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because. Oh, I'll take it back. There was there were there were a few people in town who knew a little bit of English, who were eager to, you know, improve on their English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming into the town, was there any counterpart or mentor or structure that against which you were going to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there had been communication with the mayor of the city and with the educational director for the city school, who knew that we'd be working with them. They worked with the teachers. And that we were both kind of in that area. So there was some structure awaiting us to work with teachers and we began that, you know, that process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about finding a place to live and again, and then we'll talk about the work."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.4708599598114387, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because. Oh, I'll take it back. There was there were there were a few people in town who knew a little bit of English, who were eager to, you know, improve on their English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming into the town, was there any counterpart or mentor or structure that against which you were going to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there had been communication with the mayor of the city and with the educational director for the city school, who knew that we'd be working with them. They worked with the teachers. And that we were both kind of in that area. So there was some structure awaiting us to work with teachers and we began that, you know, that process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about finding a place to live and again, and then we'll talk about the work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well as it ended up. I don't recall now how this worked out. It was a nice little, this common wall unit along the main street there, where we lived and a little living area, a bedroom. And you know a [inaudible] you conduct yourself with. And nice, clean little abode that we fixed that, and they made our own little house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who was doing the cooking?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.745399955346043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there had been communication with the mayor of the city and with the educational director for the city school, who knew that we'd be working with them. They worked with the teachers. And that we were both kind of in that area. So there was some structure awaiting us to work with teachers and we began that, you know, that process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about finding a place to live and again, and then we'll talk about the work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well as it ended up. I don't recall now how this worked out. It was a nice little, this common wall unit along the main street there, where we lived and a little living area, a bedroom. And you know a [inaudible] you conduct yourself with. And nice, clean little abode that we fixed that, and they made our own little house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who was doing the cooking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gwen was. Seems like I might have pitched in on that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a steward or a houseboy or someone helping you run the house?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.050444394828937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well as it ended up. I don't recall now how this worked out. It was a nice little, this common wall unit along the main street there, where we lived and a little living area, a bedroom. And you know a [inaudible] you conduct yourself with. And nice, clean little abode that we fixed that, and they made our own little house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who was doing the cooking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gwen was. Seems like I might have pitched in on that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a steward or a houseboy or someone helping you run the house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Nobody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the two of you."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.389382660921041, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gwen was. Seems like I might have pitched in on that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a steward or a houseboy or someone helping you run the house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Nobody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the two of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just two of us. We had a well, we had a charcoal stove over, just a couple of holes and put charcoal in light it and put your pot on top of this opening. Yeah, but we eventually got a kerosene cooktop and worked out great, it's amazing what we could do. No refrigeration. It wasn't part of the family content. It was just a little unit by itself. I don't know whether the mayor provided that. I don't recall. I don't remember writing a rent check to anybody, so it must have been just provided for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have a place to stay. Talk about the first few weeks."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5437585121344901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Nobody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the two of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just two of us. We had a well, we had a charcoal stove over, just a couple of holes and put charcoal in light it and put your pot on top of this opening. Yeah, but we eventually got a kerosene cooktop and worked out great, it's amazing what we could do. No refrigeration. It wasn't part of the family content. It was just a little unit by itself. I don't know whether the mayor provided that. I don't recall. I don't remember writing a rent check to anybody, so it must have been just provided for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have a place to stay. Talk about the first few weeks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I got sick as a dog. One of the local fellows have not heard, he was just charmed by Americans, and so overly enthusiastic for our presence it was embarrassing. We kind of wanted to avoid him because he was stumbling over himself to be so nice. Well, he was just, poor guy, he was real concerned that I was so sick. Actually, Gwen and I were both concerned that I was so sick. My system just hadn’t adjusted. But anyway, he thought of himself as an untrained medical doctor for the area, which he was not. Anyway, he pulled out the syringe, he was going to give it a shot of something that was kind of half powder and that was kind of a frightening experience for my wife. She halted that, but there was that probably the first month, two months before we could kind of get oriented to life in the city with the people, the food, and get acclimated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had Peace Corps given you a medical kit?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.715287235704989, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just two of us. We had a well, we had a charcoal stove over, just a couple of holes and put charcoal in light it and put your pot on top of this opening. Yeah, but we eventually got a kerosene cooktop and worked out great, it's amazing what we could do. No refrigeration. It wasn't part of the family content. It was just a little unit by itself. I don't know whether the mayor provided that. I don't recall. I don't remember writing a rent check to anybody, so it must have been just provided for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have a place to stay. Talk about the first few weeks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I got sick as a dog. One of the local fellows have not heard, he was just charmed by Americans, and so overly enthusiastic for our presence it was embarrassing. We kind of wanted to avoid him because he was stumbling over himself to be so nice. Well, he was just, poor guy, he was real concerned that I was so sick. Actually, Gwen and I were both concerned that I was so sick. My system just hadn’t adjusted. But anyway, he thought of himself as an untrained medical doctor for the area, which he was not. Anyway, he pulled out the syringe, he was going to give it a shot of something that was kind of half powder and that was kind of a frightening experience for my wife. She halted that, but there was that probably the first month, two months before we could kind of get oriented to life in the city with the people, the food, and get acclimated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had Peace Corps given you a medical kit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, and they had a medic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a process for medical emergency?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9058747063388768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I got sick as a dog. One of the local fellows have not heard, he was just charmed by Americans, and so overly enthusiastic for our presence it was embarrassing. We kind of wanted to avoid him because he was stumbling over himself to be so nice. Well, he was just, poor guy, he was real concerned that I was so sick. Actually, Gwen and I were both concerned that I was so sick. My system just hadn’t adjusted. But anyway, he thought of himself as an untrained medical doctor for the area, which he was not. Anyway, he pulled out the syringe, he was going to give it a shot of something that was kind of half powder and that was kind of a frightening experience for my wife. She halted that, but there was that probably the first month, two months before we could kind of get oriented to life in the city with the people, the food, and get acclimated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had Peace Corps given you a medical kit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, and they had a medic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a process for medical emergency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was what?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.117638562598752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, and they had a medic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a process for medical emergency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall, but we had all kinds of pills and everything. It just they just weren't working at the time. And I was not delirious, but I was having a hard time. That was just [inaudible], you know, a severe case of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So once you realized you weren't going to die, you recovered."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3529317362208353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall, but we had all kinds of pills and everything. It just they just weren't working at the time. And I was not delirious, but I was having a hard time. That was just [inaudible], you know, a severe case of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So once you realized you weren't going to die, you recovered."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. And we embarked on what was supposed to be our job responsibility, working with the teachers. And we went out and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who decided that your job responsibility was working with teachers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.614368595800928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall, but we had all kinds of pills and everything. It just they just weren't working at the time. And I was not delirious, but I was having a hard time. That was just [inaudible], you know, a severe case of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So once you realized you weren't going to die, you recovered."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. And we embarked on what was supposed to be our job responsibility, working with the teachers. And we went out and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who decided that your job responsibility was working with teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of our job description because it was education and community development, and we did do that. We did meet with teachers. We’d go out into the rural areas and talk with the teachers. And it just was evident that Gwen was more effective at responding with the teachers than I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But Gwen was not an experienced teacher, was she?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9048539953343644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. And we embarked on what was supposed to be our job responsibility, working with the teachers. And we went out and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who decided that your job responsibility was working with teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of our job description because it was education and community development, and we did do that. We did meet with teachers. We’d go out into the rural areas and talk with the teachers. And it just was evident that Gwen was more effective at responding with the teachers than I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But Gwen was not an experienced teacher, was she?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she had taught. Dyslexia. She'd been trained to work with kids with dyslexia. So she had that training. Anyway, as it ended up, we continued along that route, but it wasn't satisfying. So I began working with kids in the school programs, recreational programs. Just kind of school projects. These were young kids, like summer activity programs, you know, public posters. Learning about some nutrition, sports activities, just working with kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you teaching soccer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.227615550371516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of our job description because it was education and community development, and we did do that. We did meet with teachers. We’d go out into the rural areas and talk with the teachers. And it just was evident that Gwen was more effective at responding with the teachers than I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But Gwen was not an experienced teacher, was she?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she had taught. Dyslexia. She'd been trained to work with kids with dyslexia. So she had that training. Anyway, as it ended up, we continued along that route, but it wasn't satisfying. So I began working with kids in the school programs, recreational programs. Just kind of school projects. These were young kids, like summer activity programs, you know, public posters. Learning about some nutrition, sports activities, just working with kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you teaching soccer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because I didn't really know soccer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Brazil, you need to know."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5862395004127956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she had taught. Dyslexia. She'd been trained to work with kids with dyslexia. So she had that training. Anyway, as it ended up, we continued along that route, but it wasn't satisfying. So I began working with kids in the school programs, recreational programs. Just kind of school projects. These were young kids, like summer activity programs, you know, public posters. Learning about some nutrition, sports activities, just working with kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you teaching soccer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because I didn't really know soccer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Brazil, you need to know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I try to learn, but I didn't. I didn't have anything to teach anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness. Could have been a major embarrassment to the U.S. government."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.984710556014217, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because I didn't really know soccer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Brazil, you need to know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I try to learn, but I didn't. I didn't have anything to teach anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness. Could have been a major embarrassment to the U.S. government."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It could have been. I got very involved in vegetable gardens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the base to this was an elementary school, a K to 8 school?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.42745617334913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I try to learn, but I didn't. I didn't have anything to teach anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness. Could have been a major embarrassment to the U.S. government."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It could have been. I got very involved in vegetable gardens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the base to this was an elementary school, a K to 8 school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're talking about the working with teachers or?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, with the kids."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.9193957481657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It could have been. I got very involved in vegetable gardens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the base to this was an elementary school, a K to 8 school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're talking about the working with teachers or?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, with the kids."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was the same school where Gwen was working as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1326619424063336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're talking about the working with teachers or?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, with the kids."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was the same school where Gwen was working as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were several schools. She had to go out to several schools, but this was just kids in the city of Atalaia. So it was just it was just that that was not a big enough project to carry on. That was just something that I did when I saw that the other wasn't panning out to me. So from there, I decided to. I realize their diet was almost exclusively just rice and beans, you know, a little bit of meat, a little bit of vegetables. And so my objective was to encourage vegetable gardens by distributing seeds that USAID had available. And to that end, I asked the mayor to contribute some land that we could put on an experimental garden on. And it was like a couple of acres maybe an ace and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, were you reporting all this back to your regional Peace Corps office?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.369624380451482, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was the same school where Gwen was working as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were several schools. She had to go out to several schools, but this was just kids in the city of Atalaia. So it was just it was just that that was not a big enough project to carry on. That was just something that I did when I saw that the other wasn't panning out to me. So from there, I decided to. I realize their diet was almost exclusively just rice and beans, you know, a little bit of meat, a little bit of vegetables. And so my objective was to encourage vegetable gardens by distributing seeds that USAID had available. And to that end, I asked the mayor to contribute some land that we could put on an experimental garden on. And it was like a couple of acres maybe an ace and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, were you reporting all this back to your regional Peace Corps office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were they approving or they were just listening?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6329159782794243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were several schools. She had to go out to several schools, but this was just kids in the city of Atalaia. So it was just it was just that that was not a big enough project to carry on. That was just something that I did when I saw that the other wasn't panning out to me. So from there, I decided to. I realize their diet was almost exclusively just rice and beans, you know, a little bit of meat, a little bit of vegetables. And so my objective was to encourage vegetable gardens by distributing seeds that USAID had available. And to that end, I asked the mayor to contribute some land that we could put on an experimental garden on. And it was like a couple of acres maybe an ace and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, were you reporting all this back to your regional Peace Corps office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were they approving or they were just listening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did anyone come out from USAID?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.925462198088249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were they approving or they were just listening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did anyone come out from USAID?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, they did, but it ended up being a pretty good project because it was a real promotional plus for USAID."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had no background in small agriculture?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2505135534313876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did anyone come out from USAID?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, they did, but it ended up being a pretty good project because it was a real promotional plus for USAID."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had no background in small agriculture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, nothing other than where I grew up. I mean, I have my grandmother in the garden and I worked in the garden and my mother than they had. My grandfather did some gardening, but that was not their location and we weren't farmers. No, I didn't have real experience, and I just read up about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there must have been some sophistication to it because if it's a tropical area, I mean, not everything's going to grow and you need to know."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.611681726034875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, they did, but it ended up being a pretty good project because it was a real promotional plus for USAID."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had no background in small agriculture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, nothing other than where I grew up. I mean, I have my grandmother in the garden and I worked in the garden and my mother than they had. My grandfather did some gardening, but that was not their location and we weren't farmers. No, I didn't have real experience, and I just read up about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there must have been some sophistication to it because if it's a tropical area, I mean, not everything's going to grow and you need to know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[00:47:47]. Well, I was just lucky. I don't know. We end up having a heck of a knockout garden. We had all kinds of lettuce, tomatoes, cabbage, carrots, squash."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of those foods were people in the town willing to bring into their diet?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.012979695594305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, nothing other than where I grew up. I mean, I have my grandmother in the garden and I worked in the garden and my mother than they had. My grandfather did some gardening, but that was not their location and we weren't farmers. No, I didn't have real experience, and I just read up about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there must have been some sophistication to it because if it's a tropical area, I mean, not everything's going to grow and you need to know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[00:47:47]. Well, I was just lucky. I don't know. We end up having a heck of a knockout garden. We had all kinds of lettuce, tomatoes, cabbage, carrots, squash."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of those foods were people in the town willing to bring into their diet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. But they these were all foods that were available at the market in Maceió, but frequently what people would have to do. Someone would drive to Maceió, buy the produce there, bring it back out to the market and sell it. Yeah, and that's a lot. What I was trying to do to encourage people, show them it could be grown there. And they within a very small pocket garden there, you can generally produce quite a good yield of different vegetables."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were the agricultural workers in that community, the men or women or both?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.458866328438117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[00:47:47]. Well, I was just lucky. I don't know. We end up having a heck of a knockout garden. We had all kinds of lettuce, tomatoes, cabbage, carrots, squash."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of those foods were people in the town willing to bring into their diet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. But they these were all foods that were available at the market in Maceió, but frequently what people would have to do. Someone would drive to Maceió, buy the produce there, bring it back out to the market and sell it. Yeah, and that's a lot. What I was trying to do to encourage people, show them it could be grown there. And they within a very small pocket garden there, you can generally produce quite a good yield of different vegetables."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were the agricultural workers in that community, the men or women or both?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly men. There was sugar cane. So that that was their primary agriculture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any structure other than the school that you could work off, work against in developing this? Two acres is going to be substantial."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.954295920486796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. But they these were all foods that were available at the market in Maceió, but frequently what people would have to do. Someone would drive to Maceió, buy the produce there, bring it back out to the market and sell it. Yeah, and that's a lot. What I was trying to do to encourage people, show them it could be grown there. And they within a very small pocket garden there, you can generally produce quite a good yield of different vegetables."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were the agricultural workers in that community, the men or women or both?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly men. There was sugar cane. So that that was their primary agriculture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any structure other than the school that you could work off, work against in developing this? Two acres is going to be substantial."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, I have one guy that I worked with who assigned by, I guess the mayor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the town, in the sense was willing to endorse what you did and support it."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.504773244985329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly men. There was sugar cane. So that that was their primary agriculture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any structure other than the school that you could work off, work against in developing this? Two acres is going to be substantial."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, I have one guy that I worked with who assigned by, I guess the mayor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the town, in the sense was willing to endorse what you did and support it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And AID came in. Did they provide anything other than the seed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.1164147166503655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, I have one guy that I worked with who assigned by, I guess the mayor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the town, in the sense was willing to endorse what you did and support it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And AID came in. Did they provide anything other than the seed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. We did it all with a hoe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was it what, three months, six months into your being in this site that you finally came to the garden?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.684905240722628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And AID came in. Did they provide anything other than the seed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. We did it all with a hoe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was it what, three months, six months into your being in this site that you finally came to the garden?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure. I would guess, I don't know, three to six months. I don't know. I would guess somewhere in between."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first year, a couple of questions. How long would you be in the village without going out to the capital?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.205450267469587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. We did it all with a hoe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was it what, three months, six months into your being in this site that you finally came to the garden?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure. I would guess, I don't know, three to six months. I don't know. I would guess somewhere in between."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first year, a couple of questions. How long would you be in the village without going out to the capital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, maybe three or four weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a circuit of other volunteers from the group where you could go on weekend or get together?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4505002971884298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure. I would guess, I don't know, three to six months. I don't know. I would guess somewhere in between."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first year, a couple of questions. How long would you be in the village without going out to the capital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, maybe three or four weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a circuit of other volunteers from the group where you could go on weekend or get together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, usually we were close enough to the capital. Capital seem to be kind of the magnet. It everybody would come into the capital. Because there was more to do in the capital. We did have another couple of friends that that resided to the north of us, John and Jan Wunderlich. And we would go up and visit them. We had another friend who was down in another larger city, by the name of Bob Cook, and we would go and visit him. But that was rare. Yeah, usually it was people would just go to the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get around us?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.722778107987144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, maybe three or four weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a circuit of other volunteers from the group where you could go on weekend or get together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, usually we were close enough to the capital. Capital seem to be kind of the magnet. It everybody would come into the capital. Because there was more to do in the capital. We did have another couple of friends that that resided to the north of us, John and Jan Wunderlich. And we would go up and visit them. We had another friend who was down in another larger city, by the name of Bob Cook, and we would go and visit him. But that was rare. Yeah, usually it was people would just go to the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get around us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bus. Bum a ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Related question. Do you recall your first Christmas in Brazil?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.025309008874604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, usually we were close enough to the capital. Capital seem to be kind of the magnet. It everybody would come into the capital. Because there was more to do in the capital. We did have another couple of friends that that resided to the north of us, John and Jan Wunderlich. And we would go up and visit them. We had another friend who was down in another larger city, by the name of Bob Cook, and we would go and visit him. But that was rare. Yeah, usually it was people would just go to the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get around us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bus. Bum a ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Related question. Do you recall your first Christmas in Brazil?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Because sometimes it's the very hardest time, a traditional time back home."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3614544543051155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bus. Bum a ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Related question. Do you recall your first Christmas in Brazil?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Because sometimes it's the very hardest time, a traditional time back home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but my wife might."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So by the end of the first year, how would you assess, what was your feeling about what you were doing, what you were doing there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7349493936723506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Because sometimes it's the very hardest time, a traditional time back home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but my wife might."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So by the end of the first year, how would you assess, what was your feeling about what you were doing, what you were doing there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Generally I was feeling good about things because I had finally taken something that was so totally frustrating to me and turned it into something that I felt I was beginning to get some sense of satisfaction and accomplishment. Which I have not experienced until now. And before that, I was reading a lot in my footlocker and going around seeing people, working with kids and stuff, but I really want to accomplish so much. So once I began this gardening project, it really ended up being very successful. It was quite a show for us. A lot of people came from all around to look at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have visits from a Peace Corps staff?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.149943770747056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but my wife might."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So by the end of the first year, how would you assess, what was your feeling about what you were doing, what you were doing there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Generally I was feeling good about things because I had finally taken something that was so totally frustrating to me and turned it into something that I felt I was beginning to get some sense of satisfaction and accomplishment. Which I have not experienced until now. And before that, I was reading a lot in my footlocker and going around seeing people, working with kids and stuff, but I really want to accomplish so much. So once I began this gardening project, it really ended up being very successful. It was quite a show for us. A lot of people came from all around to look at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have visits from a Peace Corps staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the visit like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.499937523052284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Generally I was feeling good about things because I had finally taken something that was so totally frustrating to me and turned it into something that I felt I was beginning to get some sense of satisfaction and accomplishment. Which I have not experienced until now. And before that, I was reading a lot in my footlocker and going around seeing people, working with kids and stuff, but I really want to accomplish so much. So once I began this gardening project, it really ended up being very successful. It was quite a show for us. A lot of people came from all around to look at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have visits from a Peace Corps staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the visit like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they just saw what I was doing. And the interesting political problem we encountered is that by producing all of these vegetables, and you can produce a lot of vegetables on an acre and a half. We took it to the market to sell. Well, I don't know that I was squeezing the livelihood of this other guy who would drive to Maceió and bring it back and sell it at a high price or something. Ours was at a cheap price. Well, all of a sudden we had a problem, and so we had a voodoo hex put on our garden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was this? Still during the first year?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.888819470058093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the visit like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they just saw what I was doing. And the interesting political problem we encountered is that by producing all of these vegetables, and you can produce a lot of vegetables on an acre and a half. We took it to the market to sell. Well, I don't know that I was squeezing the livelihood of this other guy who would drive to Maceió and bring it back and sell it at a high price or something. Ours was at a cheap price. Well, all of a sudden we had a problem, and so we had a voodoo hex put on our garden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was this? Still during the first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. One day we found a skull on the fence post, you know, and something dripping off of it, I don't know. And my helper said, hey, we've got to counteract this by doing this counter stuff. So he sprinkled some stuff and then we took it to the market. He sprinkled it around the stand and hopefully. So it was it was an interesting little twist that I hadn't anticipated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So you were actually, you and your assistant, or the guy you working with, you were sitting at a stall in the market and selling?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.32091052228677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they just saw what I was doing. And the interesting political problem we encountered is that by producing all of these vegetables, and you can produce a lot of vegetables on an acre and a half. We took it to the market to sell. Well, I don't know that I was squeezing the livelihood of this other guy who would drive to Maceió and bring it back and sell it at a high price or something. Ours was at a cheap price. Well, all of a sudden we had a problem, and so we had a voodoo hex put on our garden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was this? Still during the first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. One day we found a skull on the fence post, you know, and something dripping off of it, I don't know. And my helper said, hey, we've got to counteract this by doing this counter stuff. So he sprinkled some stuff and then we took it to the market. He sprinkled it around the stand and hopefully. So it was it was an interesting little twist that I hadn't anticipated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So you were actually, you and your assistant, or the guy you working with, you were sitting at a stall in the market and selling?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yeah. And it was intended to be a showplace that would be something that people could see what can be done. And then I would go meet with people and distribute seeds for free. And ask them to come out if they wanted. And I would show them how to plant a garden, how to mix it in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you make contact with those people?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8010116914297445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. One day we found a skull on the fence post, you know, and something dripping off of it, I don't know. And my helper said, hey, we've got to counteract this by doing this counter stuff. So he sprinkled some stuff and then we took it to the market. He sprinkled it around the stand and hopefully. So it was it was an interesting little twist that I hadn't anticipated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So you were actually, you and your assistant, or the guy you working with, you were sitting at a stall in the market and selling?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yeah. And it was intended to be a showplace that would be something that people could see what can be done. And then I would go meet with people and distribute seeds for free. And ask them to come out if they wanted. And I would show them how to plant a garden, how to mix it in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you make contact with those people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Up and down the street or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were you were comfortable enough and you were familiar enough in the town?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.334457434921938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yeah. And it was intended to be a showplace that would be something that people could see what can be done. And then I would go meet with people and distribute seeds for free. And ask them to come out if they wanted. And I would show them how to plant a garden, how to mix it in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you make contact with those people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Up and down the street or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were you were comfortable enough and you were familiar enough in the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would talk to my neighbors and they would show a lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but there was no farmers co-op or Ministry of Agriculture or Future Farmers of America or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.816063816579931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Up and down the street or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were you were comfortable enough and you were familiar enough in the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would talk to my neighbors and they would show a lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but there was no farmers co-op or Ministry of Agriculture or Future Farmers of America or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, none of that that was available. But it was a twofold, multiple, two for one thing. One was to encourage people to have their own gardens and secondly to supplement their food, you know, to improve their diet. So to that end, we were moderately successful, but then we had some frustration because of this political issue that had we hadn’t anticipated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, during the first year, did you and Gwen have a chance to socialize with Brazilians? Yeah, I mean, how does that that work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.351182018422146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would talk to my neighbors and they would show a lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but there was no farmers co-op or Ministry of Agriculture or Future Farmers of America or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, none of that that was available. But it was a twofold, multiple, two for one thing. One was to encourage people to have their own gardens and secondly to supplement their food, you know, to improve their diet. So to that end, we were moderately successful, but then we had some frustration because of this political issue that had we hadn’t anticipated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, during the first year, did you and Gwen have a chance to socialize with Brazilians? Yeah, I mean, how does that that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fine, probably as a married couple as well, it turned out fine. But we also had one another too. So we weren't as forced to be out and socializing as much. But yeah, that ended up being that ended up fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes people in a living in another culture find kind of like a mentor or an informant who sort of helps them to understand the rituals, customs that they see. Was there anything like that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.945757798246829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, none of that that was available. But it was a twofold, multiple, two for one thing. One was to encourage people to have their own gardens and secondly to supplement their food, you know, to improve their diet. So to that end, we were moderately successful, but then we had some frustration because of this political issue that had we hadn’t anticipated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, during the first year, did you and Gwen have a chance to socialize with Brazilians? Yeah, I mean, how does that that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fine, probably as a married couple as well, it turned out fine. But we also had one another too. So we weren't as forced to be out and socializing as much. But yeah, that ended up being that ended up fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes people in a living in another culture find kind of like a mentor or an informant who sort of helps them to understand the rituals, customs that they see. Was there anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this this one fellow was hopeful, but he was so overly eager that you had to distance ourselves a little bit otherwise because he had a way of antagonizing some of the other locals too. Even with his good intentions. But sure, we seem to get along pretty well with all of our neighbors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you was your Portuguese improving?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.606397553607588, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fine, probably as a married couple as well, it turned out fine. But we also had one another too. So we weren't as forced to be out and socializing as much. But yeah, that ended up being that ended up fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes people in a living in another culture find kind of like a mentor or an informant who sort of helps them to understand the rituals, customs that they see. Was there anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this this one fellow was hopeful, but he was so overly eager that you had to distance ourselves a little bit otherwise because he had a way of antagonizing some of the other locals too. Even with his good intentions. But sure, we seem to get along pretty well with all of our neighbors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you was your Portuguese improving?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Uh-huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any point that you felt comfortable?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.340441726230653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this this one fellow was hopeful, but he was so overly eager that you had to distance ourselves a little bit otherwise because he had a way of antagonizing some of the other locals too. Even with his good intentions. But sure, we seem to get along pretty well with all of our neighbors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you was your Portuguese improving?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Uh-huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any point that you felt comfortable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. But then but then I'm not too embarrassed to be, to make a fool of myself and communication with gestures. No, no, I felt fine about it, I mean, I knew certainly that I didn't have the command of the language that I would have liked, but I felt comfortable enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But we're coming to the end of the first year. So coming toward the end of the first year. Did you have any vacation breaks in there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.0449352513673915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Uh-huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any point that you felt comfortable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. But then but then I'm not too embarrassed to be, to make a fool of myself and communication with gestures. No, no, I felt fine about it, I mean, I knew certainly that I didn't have the command of the language that I would have liked, but I felt comfortable enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But we're coming to the end of the first year. So coming toward the end of the first year. Did you have any vacation breaks in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, we would. We would leave on an extended weekend breaks periodically and go to, if not the capital, is not Maceió, the we would go to what they call the capital of the northeast, which was Recife, which was further north from us. Four-hour bus ride. Much bigger city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were being paid by Peace Corps, plus a leave allowance I think?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.716594723741546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. But then but then I'm not too embarrassed to be, to make a fool of myself and communication with gestures. No, no, I felt fine about it, I mean, I knew certainly that I didn't have the command of the language that I would have liked, but I felt comfortable enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But we're coming to the end of the first year. So coming toward the end of the first year. Did you have any vacation breaks in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, we would. We would leave on an extended weekend breaks periodically and go to, if not the capital, is not Maceió, the we would go to what they call the capital of the northeast, which was Recife, which was further north from us. Four-hour bus ride. Much bigger city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were being paid by Peace Corps, plus a leave allowance I think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some time and I don't recall if it was a leave allowance or not. I mean, we certainly had time off to take a vacation once a year. And for those, we would probably go to Rio de Janeiro or Salvador. For extended weekends we’d go to Recife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you go for Mardi Gras?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.351771915268385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, we would. We would leave on an extended weekend breaks periodically and go to, if not the capital, is not Maceió, the we would go to what they call the capital of the northeast, which was Recife, which was further north from us. Four-hour bus ride. Much bigger city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were being paid by Peace Corps, plus a leave allowance I think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some time and I don't recall if it was a leave allowance or not. I mean, we certainly had time off to take a vacation once a year. And for those, we would probably go to Rio de Janeiro or Salvador. For extended weekends we’d go to Recife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you go for Mardi Gras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one Mardi Gras we spent in Atalaia, and we didn't try to do Rio on Mardi Gras. It was just too much. We probably didn't have that much money saved up for that anyway. But yeah, Mardi Gras in Brazil is big, big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through the year, were you kind of writing back to the families?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.946413239187094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some time and I don't recall if it was a leave allowance or not. I mean, we certainly had time off to take a vacation once a year. And for those, we would probably go to Rio de Janeiro or Salvador. For extended weekends we’d go to Recife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you go for Mardi Gras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one Mardi Gras we spent in Atalaia, and we didn't try to do Rio on Mardi Gras. It was just too much. We probably didn't have that much money saved up for that anyway. But yeah, Mardi Gras in Brazil is big, big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through the year, were you kind of writing back to the families?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, just that we missed them a lot. A lot was going on in the United States then too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Be able to stay in touch with what was going on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.496014710207882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one Mardi Gras we spent in Atalaia, and we didn't try to do Rio on Mardi Gras. It was just too much. We probably didn't have that much money saved up for that anyway. But yeah, Mardi Gras in Brazil is big, big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through the year, were you kind of writing back to the families?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, just that we missed them a lot. A lot was going on in the United States then too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Be able to stay in touch with what was going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because I'd have, I've read Time magazine from cover to cover. I mean, all of the letters to the editor, everything little ad in there, just devour the magazine. That became a kind of a real bonding time for me and the Time magazine. And then I read an awful lot out of the foot locker that they would still have the foot lockers. That was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the books you always intended to read, there they were."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8844607891198684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, just that we missed them a lot. A lot was going on in the United States then too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Be able to stay in touch with what was going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because I'd have, I've read Time magazine from cover to cover. I mean, all of the letters to the editor, everything little ad in there, just devour the magazine. That became a kind of a real bonding time for me and the Time magazine. And then I read an awful lot out of the foot locker that they would still have the foot lockers. That was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the books you always intended to read, there they were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, speaking of my language proficiency or lack thereof. Some of the other volunteers, some of the singles, would even read the Brazilian magazines. Now I never, I read a Brazilian magazine just the way I would look at LIFE. Just look at the photos. And I've read a few of the words, but I didn't get into the stories as much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the group get together at any point, usually between first and second year."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.31606754346652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because I'd have, I've read Time magazine from cover to cover. I mean, all of the letters to the editor, everything little ad in there, just devour the magazine. That became a kind of a real bonding time for me and the Time magazine. And then I read an awful lot out of the foot locker that they would still have the foot lockers. That was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the books you always intended to read, there they were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, speaking of my language proficiency or lack thereof. Some of the other volunteers, some of the singles, would even read the Brazilian magazines. Now I never, I read a Brazilian magazine just the way I would look at LIFE. Just look at the photos. And I've read a few of the words, but I didn't get into the stories as much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the group get together at any point, usually between first and second year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We did. And in fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the whole training group from Brattleboro or just your regional?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.684519492740578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, speaking of my language proficiency or lack thereof. Some of the other volunteers, some of the singles, would even read the Brazilian magazines. Now I never, I read a Brazilian magazine just the way I would look at LIFE. Just look at the photos. And I've read a few of the words, but I didn't get into the stories as much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the group get together at any point, usually between first and second year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We did. And in fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the whole training group from Brattleboro or just your regional?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just our region. And I recall one of the group meetings was held at some regional school building. And they brought in some people with U.S. AID who were going to talk about gardening. And see, all of a sudden, at that time, that's one of the things that precipitated, really jump-started doing stuff that I thought really might make sense. Then they brought someone in to talk about sanitation, water, some other. I must say that they made valiant stabs at attempting to give us ideas. Little seeds of interest that might, you know, might grow into something. And that was helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they weren't out there doing it. They were sort of relying on you to be on the front line."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.093910547489531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We did. And in fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the whole training group from Brattleboro or just your regional?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just our region. And I recall one of the group meetings was held at some regional school building. And they brought in some people with U.S. AID who were going to talk about gardening. And see, all of a sudden, at that time, that's one of the things that precipitated, really jump-started doing stuff that I thought really might make sense. Then they brought someone in to talk about sanitation, water, some other. I must say that they made valiant stabs at attempting to give us ideas. Little seeds of interest that might, you know, might grow into something. And that was helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they weren't out there doing it. They were sort of relying on you to be on the front line."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. That's right. Here are some ideas, if it fits with your community, take it and run with it. Call us if you need some help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. You were mentioning AID people. Do you recall sharing your experiences with others in your group and how did it match up?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.54878949721059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just our region. And I recall one of the group meetings was held at some regional school building. And they brought in some people with U.S. AID who were going to talk about gardening. And see, all of a sudden, at that time, that's one of the things that precipitated, really jump-started doing stuff that I thought really might make sense. Then they brought someone in to talk about sanitation, water, some other. I must say that they made valiant stabs at attempting to give us ideas. Little seeds of interest that might, you know, might grow into something. And that was helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they weren't out there doing it. They were sort of relying on you to be on the front line."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. That's right. Here are some ideas, if it fits with your community, take it and run with it. Call us if you need some help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. You were mentioning AID people. Do you recall sharing your experiences with others in your group and how did it match up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. In fact, some of them came by to see what I have done and how I had done it. But I was trying to share all of that information too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But your sense of frustration was not unique and I mean, when you talk to the other volunteers in the group."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.054210552456211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. That's right. Here are some ideas, if it fits with your community, take it and run with it. Call us if you need some help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. You were mentioning AID people. Do you recall sharing your experiences with others in your group and how did it match up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. In fact, some of them came by to see what I have done and how I had done it. But I was trying to share all of that information too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But your sense of frustration was not unique and I mean, when you talk to the other volunteers in the group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had many of the group going home?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.615789502729123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. In fact, some of them came by to see what I have done and how I had done it. But I was trying to share all of that information too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But your sense of frustration was not unique and I mean, when you talk to the other volunteers in the group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had many of the group going home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you take a major vacation break between the first and second year?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.1286550030323586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had many of the group going home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you take a major vacation break between the first and second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. We went to Rio and from Rio we went to Brasilia, Sao Paolo. We made all of the rounds of the large cities there and then back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, now returning back to the second year, it sometimes happens with people. They now sort of see the light at the end of the tunnel. We're talking about going into the second year, whether you know that your tour was going to be over within a year and sometimes people say, well before I go, I'd like to achieve this much. Don't let me put words in your mouth. Was there any sense of that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.365172225591509, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you take a major vacation break between the first and second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. We went to Rio and from Rio we went to Brasilia, Sao Paolo. We made all of the rounds of the large cities there and then back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, now returning back to the second year, it sometimes happens with people. They now sort of see the light at the end of the tunnel. We're talking about going into the second year, whether you know that your tour was going to be over within a year and sometimes people say, well before I go, I'd like to achieve this much. Don't let me put words in your mouth. Was there any sense of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. We were just hopeful that we would be able to cope with it with the frustration. As it ended up, we did make a move from the town of Atalaia to a larger town of Panehu, and that was probably for the last nine months or six to nine months of our stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did that come about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6279691395461207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. We went to Rio and from Rio we went to Brasilia, Sao Paolo. We made all of the rounds of the large cities there and then back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, now returning back to the second year, it sometimes happens with people. They now sort of see the light at the end of the tunnel. We're talking about going into the second year, whether you know that your tour was going to be over within a year and sometimes people say, well before I go, I'd like to achieve this much. Don't let me put words in your mouth. Was there any sense of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. We were just hopeful that we would be able to cope with it with the frustration. As it ended up, we did make a move from the town of Atalaia to a larger town of Panehu, and that was probably for the last nine months or six to nine months of our stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did that come about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was just over some political pressures in the city. There was some, some strife and discontent over the garden issue. And as it ended up, we were not getting quite the support we thought we needed. There were some personality issues involved too as it ended up. It was just kind of resolved that it's probably better if we relocated to this other city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you, you initiated this in talks with the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9199657106068004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. We were just hopeful that we would be able to cope with it with the frustration. As it ended up, we did make a move from the town of Atalaia to a larger town of Panehu, and that was probably for the last nine months or six to nine months of our stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did that come about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was just over some political pressures in the city. There was some, some strife and discontent over the garden issue. And as it ended up, we were not getting quite the support we thought we needed. There were some personality issues involved too as it ended up. It was just kind of resolved that it's probably better if we relocated to this other city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you, you initiated this in talks with the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, with staff. And everybody kind of decided that was probably better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gwen was pretty much content with it as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.244406345118667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was just over some political pressures in the city. There was some, some strife and discontent over the garden issue. And as it ended up, we were not getting quite the support we thought we needed. There were some personality issues involved too as it ended up. It was just kind of resolved that it's probably better if we relocated to this other city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you, you initiated this in talks with the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, with staff. And everybody kind of decided that was probably better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gwen was pretty much content with it as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were all. We'd all kind of tried to evaluate what we thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was the feeling that staying another six eight months there was not going to really accomplish anything."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.604895939020741, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, with staff. And everybody kind of decided that was probably better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gwen was pretty much content with it as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were all. We'd all kind of tried to evaluate what we thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was the feeling that staying another six eight months there was not going to really accomplish anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not any more than what we had done, we didn't think. And in fact, we were encountering resistance from some of the leadership there. So we had apparently, as I say, I was unaware that I maybe had stepped on some toes in doing what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But obviously, I mean, on one level, you successful in having introduced change."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.005439932245268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were all. We'd all kind of tried to evaluate what we thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was the feeling that staying another six eight months there was not going to really accomplish anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not any more than what we had done, we didn't think. And in fact, we were encountering resistance from some of the leadership there. So we had apparently, as I say, I was unaware that I maybe had stepped on some toes in doing what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But obviously, I mean, on one level, you successful in having introduced change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I felt so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the fact that the resistance occurred is the proof, you know."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.450488813605853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not any more than what we had done, we didn't think. And in fact, we were encountering resistance from some of the leadership there. So we had apparently, as I say, I was unaware that I maybe had stepped on some toes in doing what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But obviously, I mean, on one level, you successful in having introduced change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I felt so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the fact that the resistance occurred is the proof, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, maybe, maybe. But regardless of the circumstances were such that it just needed, it deserved a change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your new the new assignment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.944987570673169, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I felt so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the fact that the resistance occurred is the proof, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, maybe, maybe. But regardless of the circumstances were such that it just needed, it deserved a change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your new the new assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we went to Panehu, which was a much larger city, about 30,000, and that we located in a small, smaller little house on kind of a farm outside of town. A bigger, bigger city, but in a more remote location."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other volunteers in the town?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.104922926756998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we went to Panehu, which was a much larger city, about 30,000, and that we located in a small, smaller little house on kind of a farm outside of town. A bigger, bigger city, but in a more remote location."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other volunteers in the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One other volunteer. One other volunteer, who lived in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doing what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was working with teachers, but at a higher level. I mean, this was a, I don't know what, I guess would be the sort of high school type teachers. You know, so I continued my gardening there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the base against which you worked in the second location?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.783247696396665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One other volunteer. One other volunteer, who lived in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doing what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was working with teachers, but at a higher level. I mean, this was a, I don't know what, I guess would be the sort of high school type teachers. You know, so I continued my gardening there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the base against which you worked in the second location?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The base?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, the school? You didn't just start a garden"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.374379872094648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The base?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, the school? You didn't just start a garden"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, actually, at that point, I think I just kind of. I remember I had gotten much more frustrated by now, and I did gardening, but I didn't have a project. I tried to just go around and work with the locals in trying to, you know, I didn't try to put on a big garden project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just tried to work with the local people and try and encourage them to plant gardens and help them with it and then distribute seeds as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was what was the source of the frustration then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.30486652454961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, actually, at that point, I think I just kind of. I remember I had gotten much more frustrated by now, and I did gardening, but I didn't have a project. I tried to just go around and work with the locals in trying to, you know, I didn't try to put on a big garden project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just tried to work with the local people and try and encourage them to plant gardens and help them with it and then distribute seeds as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was what was the source of the frustration then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think because I had I thought I had started a pretty good project. Thought it was reasonably well pursued. But then out of it came these political problems. And it wasn't something I could cope with when I didn't have political power. And I didn't feel like trying to start another type of project. Frankly, I wasn't sure what else start at the time. At that time I was just beginning to get frustrated with the whole program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not willing to say, let's go home."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.3387405828329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just tried to work with the local people and try and encourage them to plant gardens and help them with it and then distribute seeds as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was what was the source of the frustration then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think because I had I thought I had started a pretty good project. Thought it was reasonably well pursued. But then out of it came these political problems. And it wasn't something I could cope with when I didn't have political power. And I didn't feel like trying to start another type of project. Frankly, I wasn't sure what else start at the time. At that time I was just beginning to get frustrated with the whole program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not willing to say, let's go home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I wouldn't have said that. And but as it ends up, I didn't find another substitute project that was a good alternative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Gwen, in the second assignment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 11.487489536481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think because I had I thought I had started a pretty good project. Thought it was reasonably well pursued. But then out of it came these political problems. And it wasn't something I could cope with when I didn't have political power. And I didn't feel like trying to start another type of project. Frankly, I wasn't sure what else start at the time. At that time I was just beginning to get frustrated with the whole program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not willing to say, let's go home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I wouldn't have said that. And but as it ends up, I didn't find another substitute project that was a good alternative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Gwen, in the second assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still working with teachers, still found teachers to work with. But this other guy did have high school teachers that he was working with. And she was able to work with some of the other teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a side topic, do you recall any point in the two years encountering much anti-American feelings against you personally?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.097210596090001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I wouldn't have said that. And but as it ends up, I didn't find another substitute project that was a good alternative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Gwen, in the second assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still working with teachers, still found teachers to work with. But this other guy did have high school teachers that he was working with. And she was able to work with some of the other teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a side topic, do you recall any point in the two years encountering much anti-American feelings against you personally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, somewhat. I mean, we were from Texas. We had lived in Houston. My wife's from Dallas, but it was still fresh on everybody's mind. The assassination of Kennedy. Kennedy was a beloved figure because he was Catholic, but also because of his real pro-Latin relationships. And so there was there was some. Not really resentment, but they were leery of us, whether we were CIA operatives or what, but being from Texas, that added an element to it to them. They didn't, there wasn't out antagonism, but they questioned that. As far as anti-Americanism, just because we were Americans, yes, there was there was some skepticism as to whether we really were legitimate Peace Corps volunteers or something in the guise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that would reinforce the, you know, people opposing the farm project that you had worked on"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.774678440100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still working with teachers, still found teachers to work with. But this other guy did have high school teachers that he was working with. And she was able to work with some of the other teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a side topic, do you recall any point in the two years encountering much anti-American feelings against you personally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, somewhat. I mean, we were from Texas. We had lived in Houston. My wife's from Dallas, but it was still fresh on everybody's mind. The assassination of Kennedy. Kennedy was a beloved figure because he was Catholic, but also because of his real pro-Latin relationships. And so there was there was some. Not really resentment, but they were leery of us, whether we were CIA operatives or what, but being from Texas, that added an element to it to them. They didn't, there wasn't out antagonism, but they questioned that. As far as anti-Americanism, just because we were Americans, yes, there was there was some skepticism as to whether we really were legitimate Peace Corps volunteers or something in the guise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that would reinforce the, you know, people opposing the farm project that you had worked on"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you don’t know for sure."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.527420489000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, somewhat. I mean, we were from Texas. We had lived in Houston. My wife's from Dallas, but it was still fresh on everybody's mind. The assassination of Kennedy. Kennedy was a beloved figure because he was Catholic, but also because of his real pro-Latin relationships. And so there was there was some. Not really resentment, but they were leery of us, whether we were CIA operatives or what, but being from Texas, that added an element to it to them. They didn't, there wasn't out antagonism, but they questioned that. As far as anti-Americanism, just because we were Americans, yes, there was there was some skepticism as to whether we really were legitimate Peace Corps volunteers or something in the guise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that would reinforce the, you know, people opposing the farm project that you had worked on"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you don’t know for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. Some of that just could have been somewhat some jealousy also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you come into the end of the second year and your tour’s over. What’s your sense of, was it worth the two of you being there and, you know, could you match up some feeling of accomplishment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.03046721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you don’t know for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. Some of that just could have been somewhat some jealousy also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you come into the end of the second year and your tour’s over. What’s your sense of, was it worth the two of you being there and, you know, could you match up some feeling of accomplishment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we could. I was, I had mixed feelings, anger and frustration. By then, I had gotten angry about the war, even more so. Angry about, but I don't actually bother chronologically put it together as to whether Martin Luther King had been assassinated. There was a series of excruciating events. Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, of course John Kennedy. I mean, the deaths in Vietnam, at that point were just increasingly horrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So leaving then what was your plan?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.4782969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. Some of that just could have been somewhat some jealousy also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you come into the end of the second year and your tour’s over. What’s your sense of, was it worth the two of you being there and, you know, could you match up some feeling of accomplishment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we could. I was, I had mixed feelings, anger and frustration. By then, I had gotten angry about the war, even more so. Angry about, but I don't actually bother chronologically put it together as to whether Martin Luther King had been assassinated. There was a series of excruciating events. Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, of course John Kennedy. I mean, the deaths in Vietnam, at that point were just increasingly horrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So leaving then what was your plan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Leaving Brazil? Well, we missed the States and were eager to get back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't backpack it up the peninsula."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5314410000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we could. I was, I had mixed feelings, anger and frustration. By then, I had gotten angry about the war, even more so. Angry about, but I don't actually bother chronologically put it together as to whether Martin Luther King had been assassinated. There was a series of excruciating events. Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, of course John Kennedy. I mean, the deaths in Vietnam, at that point were just increasingly horrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So leaving then what was your plan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Leaving Brazil? Well, we missed the States and were eager to get back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't backpack it up the peninsula."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, we when we left, we flew down to Uruguay, Montevideo, then on to Buenos Aires and then flew on back. Almost, we debated about stopping in Mexico City but we didn’t. Yeah, but we were kind of eager to get that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You recall your reaction coming back together. You came back to Houston or Dallas?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5904900000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Leaving Brazil? Well, we missed the States and were eager to get back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't backpack it up the peninsula."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, we when we left, we flew down to Uruguay, Montevideo, then on to Buenos Aires and then flew on back. Almost, we debated about stopping in Mexico City but we didn’t. Yeah, but we were kind of eager to get that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You recall your reaction coming back together. You came back to Houston or Dallas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. We came back to Dallas. We decided to try Dallas. I was going to shift gears. I had gotten my business administration degree. I really wanted to get into something more liberal arts. I took some philosophy courses and took a political science course and I envisioned maybe getting involved with science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is when you after you came back."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, we when we left, we flew down to Uruguay, Montevideo, then on to Buenos Aires and then flew on back. Almost, we debated about stopping in Mexico City but we didn’t. Yeah, but we were kind of eager to get that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You recall your reaction coming back together. You came back to Houston or Dallas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. We came back to Dallas. We decided to try Dallas. I was going to shift gears. I had gotten my business administration degree. I really wanted to get into something more liberal arts. I took some philosophy courses and took a political science course and I envisioned maybe getting involved with science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is when you after you came back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You know, I just knew I wanted to do something different, I thought. Well, we found out that Gwen was pregnant with our twins. I immediately altered that course, I mean, I finished those courses as well, yeah, but they weren't going to lead to any gainful employment, so I took a job. But anyway, coming back here, we both felt really disjointed, disconnected with our peers, the ones that we left behind. We came back radically different people. We've never been radicals, but it had a significant altering effect on our outlook and who we what I think the kind of people we are and we found it difficult to adjust and slow for us to adjust. This was fortunate to had one. We slowly got back involved in some of the activities we've been involved in before, but uh, with a totally different outlook. We're grateful for that. But it certainly keeps you, well the lifeline. The people that we do have as friends. We just think it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I'm not sure this is something you want to get into, but have you stayed in touch with others in the group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. We came back to Dallas. We decided to try Dallas. I was going to shift gears. I had gotten my business administration degree. I really wanted to get into something more liberal arts. I took some philosophy courses and took a political science course and I envisioned maybe getting involved with science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is when you after you came back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You know, I just knew I wanted to do something different, I thought. Well, we found out that Gwen was pregnant with our twins. I immediately altered that course, I mean, I finished those courses as well, yeah, but they weren't going to lead to any gainful employment, so I took a job. But anyway, coming back here, we both felt really disjointed, disconnected with our peers, the ones that we left behind. We came back radically different people. We've never been radicals, but it had a significant altering effect on our outlook and who we what I think the kind of people we are and we found it difficult to adjust and slow for us to adjust. This was fortunate to had one. We slowly got back involved in some of the activities we've been involved in before, but uh, with a totally different outlook. We're grateful for that. But it certainly keeps you, well the lifeline. The people that we do have as friends. We just think it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I'm not sure this is something you want to get into, but have you stayed in touch with others in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we've served with what is through reunions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you traveled back to Brazil?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You know, I just knew I wanted to do something different, I thought. Well, we found out that Gwen was pregnant with our twins. I immediately altered that course, I mean, I finished those courses as well, yeah, but they weren't going to lead to any gainful employment, so I took a job. But anyway, coming back here, we both felt really disjointed, disconnected with our peers, the ones that we left behind. We came back radically different people. We've never been radicals, but it had a significant altering effect on our outlook and who we what I think the kind of people we are and we found it difficult to adjust and slow for us to adjust. This was fortunate to had one. We slowly got back involved in some of the activities we've been involved in before, but uh, with a totally different outlook. We're grateful for that. But it certainly keeps you, well the lifeline. The people that we do have as friends. We just think it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I'm not sure this is something you want to get into, but have you stayed in touch with others in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we've served with what is through reunions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you traveled back to Brazil?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wouldn't see any high motivation to do so."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we've served with what is through reunions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you traveled back to Brazil?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wouldn't see any high motivation to do so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did not, we have not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the third purposes of the Peace Corps is that in coming back, you inform others about the Third World by your experience. Have you been able to do much of that? It can be very tough at times."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wouldn't see any high motivation to do so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did not, we have not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the third purposes of the Peace Corps is that in coming back, you inform others about the Third World by your experience. Have you been able to do much of that? It can be very tough at times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, I think that is expressed through our thoughts and our conversations with people. Just because I think that now colors our whole outlook on things. And I think it's I think it's communicated in very subtle but strong ways just in our thought process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Your whole life."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00218:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did not, we have not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the third purposes of the Peace Corps is that in coming back, you inform others about the Third World by your experience. Have you been able to do much of that? It can be very tough at times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, I think that is expressed through our thoughts and our conversations with people. Just because I think that now colors our whole outlook on things. And I think it's I think it's communicated in very subtle but strong ways just in our thought process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Your whole life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't go around doing speeches or talking to the Kiwanis or anything about it. I thought about it, but I haven't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else about the experience you'd like to mention?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 53.10225725004015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually don't remember where I first heard of it. I mean, it was a popular program, was one of John Fitzgerald’s early initiatives. He made this promise and carried it out approximately on the first of the year in 2000, excuse me, 1962 it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And what project were you invited to join? Can you tell us something about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, I was asked. I was with the Heifer Project. Our administrator was the Heifer Project and it was suggested that this would be an appropriate vehicle for me because of my agricultural background. I had been raised on a farm, my parents and grandparents on both sides of my family were farmers and had much practical experience. I've been through the FFA Future Farmers of America program for each program, and my whole life revolved around agriculture at that point. So this is what they believed they needed for Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a specific country in mind when you applied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I took the Spanish exam because I had a few months introductory Spanish in college and I think that was probably the reason I was selected for Bolivia. They just said, well, he’s had a little bit of Spanish, we’ll send him there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, OK. And did you do anything special once you found out you were going to go in the Peace Corps to get ready to go?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 59.00250805560016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, I was asked. I was with the Heifer Project. Our administrator was the Heifer Project and it was suggested that this would be an appropriate vehicle for me because of my agricultural background. I had been raised on a farm, my parents and grandparents on both sides of my family were farmers and had much practical experience. I've been through the FFA Future Farmers of America program for each program, and my whole life revolved around agriculture at that point. So this is what they believed they needed for Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a specific country in mind when you applied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I took the Spanish exam because I had a few months introductory Spanish in college and I think that was probably the reason I was selected for Bolivia. They just said, well, he’s had a little bit of Spanish, we’ll send him there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, OK. And did you do anything special once you found out you were going to go in the Peace Corps to get ready to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they set oodles of instructions, you know. Packed so many blue jeans and packed chambray shirts and work boots and the list went on and on. So we were well, we were purportedly at least well prepared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now let's talk about the training a little bit. Where did you do your training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 42.73486097241301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we spent about a month at the University of Mayaguez. It was actually a pleasant time. And again, it was mostly to acclimate us to speaking Spanish. And I must say that I didn't really conquer Spanish until after I got married. And, you know, Puerto Rico, everybody speaks English anyway, for the most part, and their variety of what I was going to say is once we got to Bolivia, they sent me to an area where no one spoke Spanish. So excellent government planning again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after Puerto Rico, then did you go to Bolivia or what happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we, they gave us. This is October. I was home for my birthday, which is October 12. We had two weeks leave to spend with our families before they shipped this overseas. And then we had airplane tickets. I know they should be through New York, but I had a short helicopter ride out to Newark to fly home, which I've never been in a helicopter before. That was a big adventure. And we reunited in Miami at the airport. And while we were waiting there, we got some mysterious notice that we were supposed to be in our room at a certain time on that night, and they turned the television on. Well lo and behold, it was President Kennedy announcing the Cuban Missile Crisis. So we had no idea what was happening. They sent somebody, an emissary, down from Washington to talk to our group. And he said, we are not going to send you overseas. We're going to take you someplace else because you are for the most part of conscription age. And we might need you to fight a war. This is what we were told. And they shipped it off to Brattleboro, Vermont, and we were there for approximately a month and the crisis subsided. Then we went to Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how was it being in Brattleboro, Vermont?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the most part, boring. This was our plan. We had no program as such."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So, all right. When you first got to Bolivia, what did you think when you were coming into Bolivia?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 20.304879610160555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quechua."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quechua?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you able to learn to communicate in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, that's one of the reasons my Spanish didn't get very good while I was there. My counterpart pretty much translated everything. And he wasn't a native speaker either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had work time, you talked something about that. What did you do in your free time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.672088455733949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you able to learn to communicate in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, that's one of the reasons my Spanish didn't get very good while I was there. My counterpart pretty much translated everything. And he wasn't a native speaker either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had work time, you talked something about that. What did you do in your free time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, the big thing was go on every weekend or every other weekend back to Cochabamba. Look up my buddies. We’d go down to the local shop, have an ice cream sundae or something like that. And that was pretty much rhetoric, recreation. But I did take a vacation. Three of us went to Lima, Peru. We traveled up to La Paz and took the steamer across Lake Titicaca to Juliaca in Peru. And from there, we took the train to Cusco. From Cusco, after we toured Cusco. I have many pretty pictures of that. I took many, many slides. We flew from there to Lima. Now this time, the airplanes were again, they were still prop planes. And the cabins were unpressurized. So we were we were flying probably 8,000 feet or higher and our oxygen consisted, they dropped these masks down out of the overhead compartment. We would place them on so we wouldn't be oxygen deprived. And that was that's the way we traveled back there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. When you got to the end of the first year, was there any, were any notable events or anything that that happened, particularly that you remember? After you’ve been there a year and gotten adjusted and all that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.766142348320788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, Claude was very worried about me because nobody knew where I was. It took me much longer than I expected and I ended up at the same place I started from back in Trinidad because there was a ferry boat there, riverboat, didn't have any motor, not a working motor. So we just sort of loaded a couple rafts with bananas and floated back down to Trinidad. And Claude called me into his office and said, Bill, he said, if you ever do anything like this, he said, I said, I'm going to send you home. OK. And of course, I never did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, what about, uh, did you have any health problems when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Constant diarrhea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's I mean, for a lot of people that was a problem, I know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing major other than that constant. I went down to, when I left, I was weighing about 178, something like that. And I went down to 140 pounds within a year. I did go up the Sucre to participate in the United States building project up there. They had a project going on. I was sent up there for a month. I wasn't much help at all to be honest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you talked about the taking the trip to Lima. Was that the only time that you took, like a vacation or anything like that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.851269275911987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Constant diarrhea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's I mean, for a lot of people that was a problem, I know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing major other than that constant. I went down to, when I left, I was weighing about 178, something like that. And I went down to 140 pounds within a year. I did go up the Sucre to participate in the United States building project up there. They had a project going on. I was sent up there for a month. I wasn't much help at all to be honest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you talked about the taking the trip to Lima. Was that the only time that you took, like a vacation or anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about did you have a relationship with the family that you were living with?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.945854751013318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing major other than that constant. I went down to, when I left, I was weighing about 178, something like that. And I went down to 140 pounds within a year. I did go up the Sucre to participate in the United States building project up there. They had a project going on. I was sent up there for a month. I wasn't much help at all to be honest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you talked about the taking the trip to Lima. Was that the only time that you took, like a vacation or anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about did you have a relationship with the family that you were living with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I stayed with my counterparts, the title was counterparts. He had a degree and was working as an agricultural extension agent in the village of Arani. And I participated with him and worked as a sort of a junior. I mean, they did label me as an agricultural extension agent. So I speak, you know, I talk about the animals, but we did a lot of demonstrations on cultivating what we would call crops here. Of course, this is the home of the potato. And we would go out and look at crops and give advice, spray chemicals, how to keep disease under control. I work with kids on planters, you know, planting vegetables, onions. I remember we had very good success with this one kid. He raised a very good crop and then he would bundle them up and get on a train or the trucks. The major transport was trucks, you’d crawl in the back of the truck. And for a few pesos, you could ride to the village and I traveled that way many times to and there was busses, bus services again. The only difference between that and the truck was you got to sit down maybe. Yes. But he would bundle in big bundles and put it on top of the truck or the bus and take it to the open air market in Cochabamba. He sold them and for him was very huge success. But other crops also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you ever able to follow any of those kids that you worked with?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.82872750112591, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about did you have a relationship with the family that you were living with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I stayed with my counterparts, the title was counterparts. He had a degree and was working as an agricultural extension agent in the village of Arani. And I participated with him and worked as a sort of a junior. I mean, they did label me as an agricultural extension agent. So I speak, you know, I talk about the animals, but we did a lot of demonstrations on cultivating what we would call crops here. Of course, this is the home of the potato. And we would go out and look at crops and give advice, spray chemicals, how to keep disease under control. I work with kids on planters, you know, planting vegetables, onions. I remember we had very good success with this one kid. He raised a very good crop and then he would bundle them up and get on a train or the trucks. The major transport was trucks, you’d crawl in the back of the truck. And for a few pesos, you could ride to the village and I traveled that way many times to and there was busses, bus services again. The only difference between that and the truck was you got to sit down maybe. Yes. But he would bundle in big bundles and put it on top of the truck or the bus and take it to the open air market in Cochabamba. He sold them and for him was very huge success. But other crops also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you ever able to follow any of those kids that you worked with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I went back approximately four years later. I went out to the village, and at that time there was an American construction crew building a pipeline, oil pipeline, from Santa Cruz up across the Andes. And I talked to a couple of them, but everything had been disrupted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so when you got to the end of your tour, what did you think about what you had done there? Did you feel like it was?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.899663581636926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I went back approximately four years later. I went out to the village, and at that time there was an American construction crew building a pipeline, oil pipeline, from Santa Cruz up across the Andes. And I talked to a couple of them, but everything had been disrupted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so when you got to the end of your tour, what did you think about what you had done there? Did you feel like it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the honest truth is, of course, in many of these situations, particularly in mine, I just felt that I had received much more out of the experience than I was able to give yet. I look back and add up all the things that I did do, and I think I did a considerable amount of good also. Improved agricultural practice and working with youth. The population, the native population, is very insular. It's very hard to break through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you feel like you were able to break through that, after time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, somewhat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it's kind of difficult trying to be an insider when you're really an outsider."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.888515090707696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the honest truth is, of course, in many of these situations, particularly in mine, I just felt that I had received much more out of the experience than I was able to give yet. I look back and add up all the things that I did do, and I think I did a considerable amount of good also. Improved agricultural practice and working with youth. The population, the native population, is very insular. It's very hard to break through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you feel like you were able to break through that, after time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, somewhat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it's kind of difficult trying to be an insider when you're really an outsider."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In Queche, you know, being in a situation like that, you do pick up some of the language a little bit. And I found out my nickname was the Red Man because I would tend to blush easily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they probably enjoyed making you do that. So if you had it to do over again, would you have done anything differently?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.987238989675216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, somewhat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it's kind of difficult trying to be an insider when you're really an outsider."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In Queche, you know, being in a situation like that, you do pick up some of the language a little bit. And I found out my nickname was the Red Man because I would tend to blush easily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they probably enjoyed making you do that. So if you had it to do over again, would you have done anything differently?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but it fundamentally changed my life, that experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it change your life?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.874709988528018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In Queche, you know, being in a situation like that, you do pick up some of the language a little bit. And I found out my nickname was the Red Man because I would tend to blush easily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they probably enjoyed making you do that. So if you had it to do over again, would you have done anything differently?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but it fundamentally changed my life, that experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it change your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for one thing, I found Martha and I will be celebrating our forty-fifth wedding anniversary this October."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you met her while you were in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.86078887614224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but it fundamentally changed my life, that experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it change your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for one thing, I found Martha and I will be celebrating our forty-fifth wedding anniversary this October."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you met her while you were in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's one fundamental change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well that’s pretty significant."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4008765290469345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for one thing, I found Martha and I will be celebrating our forty-fifth wedding anniversary this October."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you met her while you were in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's one fundamental change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well that’s pretty significant."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I came back and completed my agricultural degree. I actually received a degree I once spent went back to our training site in Arizona, the Arizona State University, went there a couple of years. That was very pleasant being out there. And then I got a lot of pressure to come back to Ohio. So I went back and actually got my degree at Ohio State University and 21 years later, I got another degree in accounting. I am a CPA today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say, I forgot to ask you in the beginning what you were doing today."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.0009739211632604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's one fundamental change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well that’s pretty significant."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I came back and completed my agricultural degree. I actually received a degree I once spent went back to our training site in Arizona, the Arizona State University, went there a couple of years. That was very pleasant being out there. And then I got a lot of pressure to come back to Ohio. So I went back and actually got my degree at Ohio State University and 21 years later, I got another degree in accounting. I am a CPA today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say, I forgot to ask you in the beginning what you were doing today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, I'm working for human services in our county as the accountant, and a job in family services is the proper name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, do you think?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.667748801292511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I came back and completed my agricultural degree. I actually received a degree I once spent went back to our training site in Arizona, the Arizona State University, went there a couple of years. That was very pleasant being out there. And then I got a lot of pressure to come back to Ohio. So I went back and actually got my degree at Ohio State University and 21 years later, I got another degree in accounting. I am a CPA today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say, I forgot to ask you in the beginning what you were doing today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, I'm working for human services in our county as the accountant, and a job in family services is the proper name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's just a sideline. My major occupation is still the farm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you think that, um, that well, the goals that they had listed or was the technical assistance and to promote better understanding of the U.S. and also better understanding of other people by Americans, how do you think all those goals, you ended up with all those goals?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.408609779213901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, I'm working for human services in our county as the accountant, and a job in family services is the proper name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's just a sideline. My major occupation is still the farm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you think that, um, that well, the goals that they had listed or was the technical assistance and to promote better understanding of the U.S. and also better understanding of other people by Americans, how do you think all those goals, you ended up with all those goals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did all of them. Have you continued any kind of involvement with Bolivia since you were there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.231788643571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's just a sideline. My major occupation is still the farm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you think that, um, that well, the goals that they had listed or was the technical assistance and to promote better understanding of the U.S. and also better understanding of other people by Americans, how do you think all those goals, you ended up with all those goals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did all of them. Have you continued any kind of involvement with Bolivia since you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I mean, my sister in law lives in Bolivia. My wife has one sister. There's five of those children. Her mother had five children. Only two have lived. My wife and her sister. And I have very strong contacts yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think, well, that really was a major change for you, because that's never changed."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.14643182619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did all of them. Have you continued any kind of involvement with Bolivia since you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I mean, my sister in law lives in Bolivia. My wife has one sister. There's five of those children. Her mother had five children. Only two have lived. My wife and her sister. And I have very strong contacts yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think, well, that really was a major change for you, because that's never changed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Big time. Yeah. Uh, have you or you said that you're, the effect of the Peace Corps service was a change of career. What were you going to do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.1627020291, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I mean, my sister in law lives in Bolivia. My wife has one sister. There's five of those children. Her mother had five children. Only two have lived. My wife and her sister. And I have very strong contacts yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think, well, that really was a major change for you, because that's never changed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Big time. Yeah. Uh, have you or you said that you're, the effect of the Peace Corps service was a change of career. What were you going to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't say that. I came back and I mean, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just came back and."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.847446699000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Big time. Yeah. Uh, have you or you said that you're, the effect of the Peace Corps service was a change of career. What were you going to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't say that. I came back and I mean, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just came back and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I completed my agricultural degree. Well, yes. I mean, initially I started out, but the first year of college is just general anyway. And it oriented me. I said, well, you know, why be unnatural about this? My training, my inclination is agricultural. I'll stay with that. Went and got my agricultural degree at Hofsted University, entered graduate school for two quarters, dropped out, went to Argentina. We actually ranched in Argentina for three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Argentina."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.608274110000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't say that. I came back and I mean, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just came back and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I completed my agricultural degree. Well, yes. I mean, initially I started out, but the first year of college is just general anyway. And it oriented me. I said, well, you know, why be unnatural about this? My training, my inclination is agricultural. I'll stay with that. Went and got my agricultural degree at Hofsted University, entered graduate school for two quarters, dropped out, went to Argentina. We actually ranched in Argentina for three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Argentina."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how was that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.4536379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I completed my agricultural degree. Well, yes. I mean, initially I started out, but the first year of college is just general anyway. And it oriented me. I said, well, you know, why be unnatural about this? My training, my inclination is agricultural. I'll stay with that. Went and got my agricultural degree at Hofsted University, entered graduate school for two quarters, dropped out, went to Argentina. We actually ranched in Argentina for three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Argentina."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Argentina's pleasant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that being in the Peace Corps helped you in later years to do the things that you ended up doing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.392931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Argentina's pleasant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that being in the Peace Corps helped you in later years to do the things that you ended up doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How particularly what did you gain from that experience? That seems to be useful."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.43659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Argentina's pleasant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that being in the Peace Corps helped you in later years to do the things that you ended up doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How particularly what did you gain from that experience? That seems to be useful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What did I gain? Yeah, it's such a big question. I don't know where to start."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You start little."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.539000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What did I gain? Yeah, it's such a big question. I don't know where to start."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You start little."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Today, for example, in the grain markets that we have. People come and ask me, what is the situation in Argentina? Last year, they had a heavy drought, I mean, a very severe drought, and as a result, our soybean prices have increased considerably. And I'm still asked my opinion on conditions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bolivia is not an agricultural and a large agricultural producer. I mean, it's so isolated with the mountains along the Andean mountains on the west side of the country. And the big swamp headquarters headlands of the Amazon on the other. It's still a very insular country there. For the most part, they are self-sufficient today. That's not true when we went. They had to import a lot of food. But today they actually do have a slight exportable agricultural surplus. But that could change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's. Is there anything else that you think of that we haven't talked about that, that you would like to add about the experience?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 11.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Today, for example, in the grain markets that we have. People come and ask me, what is the situation in Argentina? Last year, they had a heavy drought, I mean, a very severe drought, and as a result, our soybean prices have increased considerably. And I'm still asked my opinion on conditions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bolivia is not an agricultural and a large agricultural producer. I mean, it's so isolated with the mountains along the Andean mountains on the west side of the country. And the big swamp headquarters headlands of the Amazon on the other. It's still a very insular country there. For the most part, they are self-sufficient today. That's not true when we went. They had to import a lot of food. But today they actually do have a slight exportable agricultural surplus. But that could change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's. Is there anything else that you think of that we haven't talked about that, that you would like to add about the experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the time that we allotted is nearly up, and I probably talked enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, if you like to say anything more that’s fine. Whatever, otherwise."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00250:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bolivia is not an agricultural and a large agricultural producer. I mean, it's so isolated with the mountains along the Andean mountains on the west side of the country. And the big swamp headquarters headlands of the Amazon on the other. It's still a very insular country there. For the most part, they are self-sufficient today. That's not true when we went. They had to import a lot of food. But today they actually do have a slight exportable agricultural surplus. But that could change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's. Is there anything else that you think of that we haven't talked about that, that you would like to add about the experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the time that we allotted is nearly up, and I probably talked enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, if you like to say anything more that’s fine. Whatever, otherwise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I follow the situation right now, and as you know, the present president is the first Native American president ever elected and he won with a plurality. That is something. I remember when I was out Arizona State University, one of my professors asking me, because at that time when I left Bolivia, approximately 90 percent of the population was pureblood Incan, Quecha, Aymara. And only and maybe two or three percent of the population, maybe as high as seven percent, was what you would call European. And the rest was a mixed blood. And I responded to him, what's the future of Bolivia? And I responded to him, I said at that time, I believe the native culture will take over. And this is what we're seeing today. I mean, they have elected a bicameral legislature, which is for the most part, Native American. They have a Native American president who until very recently was head of the Coca Growers Association. I have some views on that also. You will never stop, you will never stop coca cultivation in Bolivia. And the State Department officials that try to do this are just wasting our money. I mean, that's the home of coca."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Part of their culture."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:4", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.91726168902939, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in the morning. I remember we were getting up, getting ready to go to training. In the Peace Corps, we always had to run a mile every morning at training before we started, at least out in Albuquerque. So we just got done with that. We're coming in to get breakfast and I can't remember the timing, but it was all over the news that Kennedy had been shot. And so everything kind of went on hold for the morning. And I can't remember all the time exactly when we heard he died. But we were in the student union area there at the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm curious, going back a minute. Initially, you were in this program for Nigeria that turned out to be teachers. Then when you were accepted to this one with architects in Colombia, was there any hesitation or elation? What was your reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Colombia sounded fine. Actually, I figured that I'd get to learn Spanish, which was a lot more useful in the United States than the languages in Nigeria. I can't remember what they're called, but they were three different languages there. And I think I came out with about four words at one point that I can remember. I can't remember any of them now. So I was excited about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reaction of your family and friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my parents, my father and stepfather said, well, I guess that's what you want to do, that's OK. Kind of stayed out. He didn't really give me much of an opinion one way or the other. I think he was just kind of thrilled that his son was out of college and the tuition bills had stopped. He was finally paying his own way. So I didn't get much reaction from that at all. I just was glad I had an assignment and some place to go, and it looked like it was going to move ahead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How large was your group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:6", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.0191796544771, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Colombia sounded fine. Actually, I figured that I'd get to learn Spanish, which was a lot more useful in the United States than the languages in Nigeria. I can't remember what they're called, but they were three different languages there. And I think I came out with about four words at one point that I can remember. I can't remember any of them now. So I was excited about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reaction of your family and friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my parents, my father and stepfather said, well, I guess that's what you want to do, that's OK. Kind of stayed out. He didn't really give me much of an opinion one way or the other. I think he was just kind of thrilled that his son was out of college and the tuition bills had stopped. He was finally paying his own way. So I didn't get much reaction from that at all. I just was glad I had an assignment and some place to go, and it looked like it was going to move ahead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How large was your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that we were 60 or 70 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the mix? There were seven architects?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:8", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 34.46575517164122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my parents, my father and stepfather said, well, I guess that's what you want to do, that's OK. Kind of stayed out. He didn't really give me much of an opinion one way or the other. I think he was just kind of thrilled that his son was out of college and the tuition bills had stopped. He was finally paying his own way. So I didn't get much reaction from that at all. I just was glad I had an assignment and some place to go, and it looked like it was going to move ahead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How large was your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that we were 60 or 70 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the mix? There were seven architects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. There were seven architects in the Nigeria program. I can't recall how many architects, if any. I may have been the only architect that we had in the program. Most of it was community development types of folks that ended up being scattered all over Colombia. As I remember, about two-thirds of us ended up going there from the number that started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was a typical training day like? You mentioned starting off with."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:18", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 28.900667533135554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's mostly Native Americans, a lot of Native Americans. I think it's on the edge of one of the reservations, I can't recall. I haven't been, I've been back through there once about five or six years ago. To get from one part of Colorado to the other, the only way you can get there is to go down into New Mexico and Chama and come back up, which I guess is why the railroad went that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular friendships that formed in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the only one I've really, it actually wasn't from training, was Dominick Bresage, and I was best man at his wedding. There was one guy that actually dropped out of training that lives here in Grand Rapids that I met with once. I've never been able to keep that connection going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was the selection process an issue for yourself? Were you nervous about being selected out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we're all nervous about that. I mean, it was probably like the selection Sunday for the NCAA tournament. You know, you kind of see it. Because if they called your name, that was bad news, as I recall. And I got that call when I was with the end of the Nigeria program because they concluded that being a school teacher was not one, that was not my calling. So I had to go down and didn't go. And obviously it was a huge disappointment, but I think in hindsight, they did me a real favor. I would not have done a very good job of teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then after training, you went back home and?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:20", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.11185281459506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the only one I've really, it actually wasn't from training, was Dominick Bresage, and I was best man at his wedding. There was one guy that actually dropped out of training that lives here in Grand Rapids that I met with once. I've never been able to keep that connection going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was the selection process an issue for yourself? Were you nervous about being selected out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we're all nervous about that. I mean, it was probably like the selection Sunday for the NCAA tournament. You know, you kind of see it. Because if they called your name, that was bad news, as I recall. And I got that call when I was with the end of the Nigeria program because they concluded that being a school teacher was not one, that was not my calling. So I had to go down and didn't go. And obviously it was a huge disappointment, but I think in hindsight, they did me a real favor. I would not have done a very good job of teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then after training, you went back home and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back home and sort of waited for a call, which they never call. I started, graduated from college in June and started almost immediately in the Peace Corps training program at Barnard College in Columbia, in New York. And then about the first part of September, they concluded that I wasn't, that they didn't have any architects or architectural slots in Nigeria, and they were going to put me back in the hopper to get reselected. But I pretty much had an idea that, assuming that some program came up that had some reasonable opportunity for an architect, that I was going to get a chance. And that started training in, oh it was probably November or early December, and we finished up in February. Went to Colombia in, if I remember the dates correctly, in February, and that would be of '64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, how long were you in the training program for Nigeria would you say?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:22", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.457614238438957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we're all nervous about that. I mean, it was probably like the selection Sunday for the NCAA tournament. You know, you kind of see it. Because if they called your name, that was bad news, as I recall. And I got that call when I was with the end of the Nigeria program because they concluded that being a school teacher was not one, that was not my calling. So I had to go down and didn't go. And obviously it was a huge disappointment, but I think in hindsight, they did me a real favor. I would not have done a very good job of teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then after training, you went back home and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back home and sort of waited for a call, which they never call. I started, graduated from college in June and started almost immediately in the Peace Corps training program at Barnard College in Columbia, in New York. And then about the first part of September, they concluded that I wasn't, that they didn't have any architects or architectural slots in Nigeria, and they were going to put me back in the hopper to get reselected. But I pretty much had an idea that, assuming that some program came up that had some reasonable opportunity for an architect, that I was going to get a chance. And that started training in, oh it was probably November or early December, and we finished up in February. Went to Colombia in, if I remember the dates correctly, in February, and that would be of '64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, how long were you in the training program for Nigeria would you say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say two and a half months. It was right up to close to the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some similarities or differences between those two training programs?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:24", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.730682487154397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back home and sort of waited for a call, which they never call. I started, graduated from college in June and started almost immediately in the Peace Corps training program at Barnard College in Columbia, in New York. And then about the first part of September, they concluded that I wasn't, that they didn't have any architects or architectural slots in Nigeria, and they were going to put me back in the hopper to get reselected. But I pretty much had an idea that, assuming that some program came up that had some reasonable opportunity for an architect, that I was going to get a chance. And that started training in, oh it was probably November or early December, and we finished up in February. Went to Colombia in, if I remember the dates correctly, in February, and that would be of '64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, how long were you in the training program for Nigeria would you say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say two and a half months. It was right up to close to the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some similarities or differences between those two training programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first of all, it's a whole. They didn't really, you know, a lot of the folks in Nigeria were teaching English. That was primarily what they were doing. And they gave you a little smattering of Igbo and Yoruba and all the rest of the languages, but they didn't really try to teach you those languages. They're extremely difficult. They're tonal languages and have no relationship at all to anything we hear here in the United States. For Colombia, it was essential that you speak at least some Spanish or you were not going to be able to do anything. So that was probably the critical skill that they wanted to make sure you left with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have the Outward Bound kind of thing in the Nigerian?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:26", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 24.145202763504884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say two and a half months. It was right up to close to the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some similarities or differences between those two training programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first of all, it's a whole. They didn't really, you know, a lot of the folks in Nigeria were teaching English. That was primarily what they were doing. And they gave you a little smattering of Igbo and Yoruba and all the rest of the languages, but they didn't really try to teach you those languages. They're extremely difficult. They're tonal languages and have no relationship at all to anything we hear here in the United States. For Colombia, it was essential that you speak at least some Spanish or you were not going to be able to do anything. So that was probably the critical skill that they wanted to make sure you left with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have the Outward Bound kind of thing in the Nigerian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, not in Nigeria. We did it for Colombia. They had the rope courses and the other things that are. Actually, I went in the Army after I went in the Peace Corps and the Peace Corps training was physically more rigorous than the Army training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say a little bit more about that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:28", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.939114181672092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first of all, it's a whole. They didn't really, you know, a lot of the folks in Nigeria were teaching English. That was primarily what they were doing. And they gave you a little smattering of Igbo and Yoruba and all the rest of the languages, but they didn't really try to teach you those languages. They're extremely difficult. They're tonal languages and have no relationship at all to anything we hear here in the United States. For Colombia, it was essential that you speak at least some Spanish or you were not going to be able to do anything. So that was probably the critical skill that they wanted to make sure you left with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have the Outward Bound kind of thing in the Nigerian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, not in Nigeria. We did it for Colombia. They had the rope courses and the other things that are. Actually, I went in the Army after I went in the Peace Corps and the Peace Corps training was physically more rigorous than the Army training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say a little bit more about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, after I came back from Colombia, that was December of 1965, and I was 1A in the draft. And most folks thought that if you were in the Peace Corps that got you out of the Army and that is not true. It was just a deferment. And I was 25 years old, so I ended up enlisting for OCS. If I was going to be drafted, I wasn't going to do KP for the rest of my life. And then as it turned out, after I got in the Army, they got rid of KP. I thought that was one of the big reasons I decided I was going to go to Officer Candidate School was to get out of KP. But I went through basic training at Fort Leonard, where they went through Officer Candidate School in Fort Belvoir. Ended up spending a year in Vietnam and coming back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, back to how was the training more rigorous, you said, for the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:30", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.710126868524547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, not in Nigeria. We did it for Colombia. They had the rope courses and the other things that are. Actually, I went in the Army after I went in the Peace Corps and the Peace Corps training was physically more rigorous than the Army training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say a little bit more about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, after I came back from Colombia, that was December of 1965, and I was 1A in the draft. And most folks thought that if you were in the Peace Corps that got you out of the Army and that is not true. It was just a deferment. And I was 25 years old, so I ended up enlisting for OCS. If I was going to be drafted, I wasn't going to do KP for the rest of my life. And then as it turned out, after I got in the Army, they got rid of KP. I thought that was one of the big reasons I decided I was going to go to Officer Candidate School was to get out of KP. But I went through basic training at Fort Leonard, where they went through Officer Candidate School in Fort Belvoir. Ended up spending a year in Vietnam and coming back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, back to how was the training more rigorous, you said, for the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the Army didn't really give you that one mile run every morning. You didn't have a whole series of rigorous things. They didn't have, in fact, I had. By the time I got to the. The Army did put me through some of the Outward Bound stuff in the Officer Candidate School, but basic training is. Training in the Peace Corps was physically a little more rigorous than basic training in the Army. At least that's the way I remember it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then when you went to Colombia, what's your first impression as you got off the plane?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:32", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.34458540947172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, after I came back from Colombia, that was December of 1965, and I was 1A in the draft. And most folks thought that if you were in the Peace Corps that got you out of the Army and that is not true. It was just a deferment. And I was 25 years old, so I ended up enlisting for OCS. If I was going to be drafted, I wasn't going to do KP for the rest of my life. And then as it turned out, after I got in the Army, they got rid of KP. I thought that was one of the big reasons I decided I was going to go to Officer Candidate School was to get out of KP. But I went through basic training at Fort Leonard, where they went through Officer Candidate School in Fort Belvoir. Ended up spending a year in Vietnam and coming back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, back to how was the training more rigorous, you said, for the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the Army didn't really give you that one mile run every morning. You didn't have a whole series of rigorous things. They didn't have, in fact, I had. By the time I got to the. The Army did put me through some of the Outward Bound stuff in the Officer Candidate School, but basic training is. Training in the Peace Corps was physically a little more rigorous than basic training in the Army. At least that's the way I remember it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then when you went to Colombia, what's your first impression as you got off the plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew into Bogota and it was cold as I recall. I was surprised because it was kind of. Bogota, as I remember, was cloudy and damp. In fact, the weather was similar to Ithaca, New York, which I felt was odd. This was supposed to be near the equator. What's going on? But it was, we stayed there for a couple of days and then they shipped us out to the various parts of the country we're going to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you didn't have in-country training for any span of time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:34", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.938428232746354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the Army didn't really give you that one mile run every morning. You didn't have a whole series of rigorous things. They didn't have, in fact, I had. By the time I got to the. The Army did put me through some of the Outward Bound stuff in the Officer Candidate School, but basic training is. Training in the Peace Corps was physically a little more rigorous than basic training in the Army. At least that's the way I remember it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then when you went to Colombia, what's your first impression as you got off the plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew into Bogota and it was cold as I recall. I was surprised because it was kind of. Bogota, as I remember, was cloudy and damp. In fact, the weather was similar to Ithaca, New York, which I felt was odd. This was supposed to be near the equator. What's going on? But it was, we stayed there for a couple of days and then they shipped us out to the various parts of the country we're going to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you didn't have in-country training for any span of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not that I remember. And I was assigned to be initially to a little small town outside of Cali called Pradera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About how far of a trip was that from Bogota?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:38", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.393121274995497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not that I remember. And I was assigned to be initially to a little small town outside of Cali called Pradera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About how far of a trip was that from Bogota?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we had to fly I think to Cali as I remember and then took a. Because Cali, that's a couple of mountain valleys away. And there were still in the mountains in the, when I was in Colombia, the bandits in the mountains were financed by Fidel. And so Colombia had been having a civil war since 1948, and they'd killed like 300,000 people in Colombia. And they'd finally come to a sort of a semi truce where they alternated the presidency between the liberals and conservatives. Every four years they would switch back regardless of what the vote was, they could switch back, because that was their way of keeping each other from shooting each other. Obviously, that's broken down on the simple thing. But so going up to the mountains wasn't always all that safe, so people would tend to fly over and then take busses. And I can't recall how I got there. I had to go through another town I remember. And I can't remember if anybody met me at the airport or not and I got a ride, that I don't recall. But I worked initially with a couple of community development volunteers, Dominick Bresage, I was best man at his wedding, was one. And a guy named Steve Chestnut was the other. He was from Boston I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you flew into this town and then you somehow got to your site. About how far from the major town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe 30 or 40 miles. My guess is that now Pradera is almost part of Cali, because Cali's grown. When I was there, was about three or four hundred thousand people and now it's two million. It's grown dramatically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the town that you were assigned to, about how big was that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:40", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.659023638883886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we had to fly I think to Cali as I remember and then took a. Because Cali, that's a couple of mountain valleys away. And there were still in the mountains in the, when I was in Colombia, the bandits in the mountains were financed by Fidel. And so Colombia had been having a civil war since 1948, and they'd killed like 300,000 people in Colombia. And they'd finally come to a sort of a semi truce where they alternated the presidency between the liberals and conservatives. Every four years they would switch back regardless of what the vote was, they could switch back, because that was their way of keeping each other from shooting each other. Obviously, that's broken down on the simple thing. But so going up to the mountains wasn't always all that safe, so people would tend to fly over and then take busses. And I can't recall how I got there. I had to go through another town I remember. And I can't remember if anybody met me at the airport or not and I got a ride, that I don't recall. But I worked initially with a couple of community development volunteers, Dominick Bresage, I was best man at his wedding, was one. And a guy named Steve Chestnut was the other. He was from Boston I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you flew into this town and then you somehow got to your site. About how far from the major town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe 30 or 40 miles. My guess is that now Pradera is almost part of Cali, because Cali's grown. When I was there, was about three or four hundred thousand people and now it's two million. It's grown dramatically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the town that you were assigned to, about how big was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that's maybe three or four thousand people, something like that. They had a town square, Catholic Church, movie theater, a couple of stores, marketplace. And then there's a series of houses. The agricultural elements as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I'm trying to get a picture of the size that would be. Would that be about the size of Taos proper in a sense?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:42", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.954470709870984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe 30 or 40 miles. My guess is that now Pradera is almost part of Cali, because Cali's grown. When I was there, was about three or four hundred thousand people and now it's two million. It's grown dramatically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the town that you were assigned to, about how big was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that's maybe three or four thousand people, something like that. They had a town square, Catholic Church, movie theater, a couple of stores, marketplace. And then there's a series of houses. The agricultural elements as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I'm trying to get a picture of the size that would be. Would that be about the size of Taos proper in a sense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, probably physically, yes, my guess is that Taos may have had. Oh, maybe about the same size. I've never thought about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you live then when you were in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:44", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.393856344301092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that's maybe three or four thousand people, something like that. They had a town square, Catholic Church, movie theater, a couple of stores, marketplace. And then there's a series of houses. The agricultural elements as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I'm trying to get a picture of the size that would be. Would that be about the size of Taos proper in a sense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, probably physically, yes, my guess is that Taos may have had. Oh, maybe about the same size. I've never thought about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you live then when you were in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived in a house that I shared with the other two Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were the three of you in that area that were volunteers. Any other Americans or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:46", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.65984038255677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, probably physically, yes, my guess is that Taos may have had. Oh, maybe about the same size. I've never thought about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you live then when you were in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived in a house that I shared with the other two Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were the three of you in that area that were volunteers. Any other Americans or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there weren't any other Americans in Pradera that I remember. We had a cooperative volunteer. They were trained to go down and try and set up fishing and agricultural cooperatives among the Colombians so that they could sell their products and market their products. How do we get the campesinos to make some money out of this? And that guy's name was Steve Diplo, and he would come in, oh, about every other week. And the goal was to try and organize the farmers into a cooperative so that they could market their products more effectively, either agricultural products in Cali and the larger cities or handicraft products in the United States. And they got into some of these carved, uh, elements that they would bundle up together and arrange for an agent to ship it to the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe the house."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:48", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.955378202840855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived in a house that I shared with the other two Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were the three of you in that area that were volunteers. Any other Americans or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there weren't any other Americans in Pradera that I remember. We had a cooperative volunteer. They were trained to go down and try and set up fishing and agricultural cooperatives among the Colombians so that they could sell their products and market their products. How do we get the campesinos to make some money out of this? And that guy's name was Steve Diplo, and he would come in, oh, about every other week. And the goal was to try and organize the farmers into a cooperative so that they could market their products more effectively, either agricultural products in Cali and the larger cities or handicraft products in the United States. And they got into some of these carved, uh, elements that they would bundle up together and arrange for an agent to ship it to the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe the house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I remember it was a single story, had three or four bedrooms, so you'd walk right into a main living area was kind of L- shaped as I remember. There was a courtyard in the back and the outhouse was out at the far end with, I seem to recall there was a shower in there. I don't remember the rest of it. I do remember that we must have had a colony of rats living in the attic because at night they would run across the ceiling. Now they may have sounded louder than they really were, I don't know. This could have been the mouse that roared, could have been small animals, but I think they were pretty big. Because one time we saw this tail hanging out of the gutter and the tail is about that long. I said, if that's how long the tail is, the rat's got to be huge. So needless to say, we never went up in the attic. That was, we just let them stay there. We were like, we were renting that house. I can't recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any cats or anything to deal with the rats?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.394864669823171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there weren't any other Americans in Pradera that I remember. We had a cooperative volunteer. They were trained to go down and try and set up fishing and agricultural cooperatives among the Colombians so that they could sell their products and market their products. How do we get the campesinos to make some money out of this? And that guy's name was Steve Diplo, and he would come in, oh, about every other week. And the goal was to try and organize the farmers into a cooperative so that they could market their products more effectively, either agricultural products in Cali and the larger cities or handicraft products in the United States. And they got into some of these carved, uh, elements that they would bundle up together and arrange for an agent to ship it to the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe the house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I remember it was a single story, had three or four bedrooms, so you'd walk right into a main living area was kind of L- shaped as I remember. There was a courtyard in the back and the outhouse was out at the far end with, I seem to recall there was a shower in there. I don't remember the rest of it. I do remember that we must have had a colony of rats living in the attic because at night they would run across the ceiling. Now they may have sounded louder than they really were, I don't know. This could have been the mouse that roared, could have been small animals, but I think they were pretty big. Because one time we saw this tail hanging out of the gutter and the tail is about that long. I said, if that's how long the tail is, the rat's got to be huge. So needless to say, we never went up in the attic. That was, we just let them stay there. We were like, we were renting that house. I can't recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any cats or anything to deal with the rats?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I don't recall sort of having any pets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a shower in the outhouse. Did you have running water?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.994294077581301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I remember it was a single story, had three or four bedrooms, so you'd walk right into a main living area was kind of L- shaped as I remember. There was a courtyard in the back and the outhouse was out at the far end with, I seem to recall there was a shower in there. I don't remember the rest of it. I do remember that we must have had a colony of rats living in the attic because at night they would run across the ceiling. Now they may have sounded louder than they really were, I don't know. This could have been the mouse that roared, could have been small animals, but I think they were pretty big. Because one time we saw this tail hanging out of the gutter and the tail is about that long. I said, if that's how long the tail is, the rat's got to be huge. So needless to say, we never went up in the attic. That was, we just let them stay there. We were like, we were renting that house. I can't recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any cats or anything to deal with the rats?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I don't recall sort of having any pets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a shower in the outhouse. Did you have running water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had running water. But we had a saying in Pradera that I think if whatever happened. When it rained really hard, it would turn the water brown because it would be coming out of the mountains, so all the erosion was going to the water supply. And it would overwhelm the little generator they had in the town which was running off of water from the stream, and it would overrun it until the lights would go out. Well, they had a saying that if a cow pisses in the mountains, the water turns brown and the lights go out. It was not that quite that extreme, but electricity was a little bit of a mess, but both basically worked pretty closely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it typically like a particular time in the evening from 6:00 to 9:00 or any time of day you had electricity?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.660326752868112, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I don't recall sort of having any pets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a shower in the outhouse. Did you have running water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had running water. But we had a saying in Pradera that I think if whatever happened. When it rained really hard, it would turn the water brown because it would be coming out of the mountains, so all the erosion was going to the water supply. And it would overwhelm the little generator they had in the town which was running off of water from the stream, and it would overrun it until the lights would go out. Well, they had a saying that if a cow pisses in the mountains, the water turns brown and the lights go out. It was not that quite that extreme, but electricity was a little bit of a mess, but both basically worked pretty closely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it typically like a particular time in the evening from 6:00 to 9:00 or any time of day you had electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember it going off at particular times, it may have, I just don't remember. It was on most evenings, I know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had electric lights?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.511474169853457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had running water. But we had a saying in Pradera that I think if whatever happened. When it rained really hard, it would turn the water brown because it would be coming out of the mountains, so all the erosion was going to the water supply. And it would overwhelm the little generator they had in the town which was running off of water from the stream, and it would overrun it until the lights would go out. Well, they had a saying that if a cow pisses in the mountains, the water turns brown and the lights go out. It was not that quite that extreme, but electricity was a little bit of a mess, but both basically worked pretty closely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it typically like a particular time in the evening from 6:00 to 9:00 or any time of day you had electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember it going off at particular times, it may have, I just don't remember. It was on most evenings, I know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had electric lights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had electric lights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of kitchen facilities were there? Wood stove or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.568304633170506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember it going off at particular times, it may have, I just don't remember. It was on most evenings, I know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had electric lights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had electric lights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of kitchen facilities were there? Wood stove or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to recall. I don't remember if it was wood fired or electric stove. I don't think it was gas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did you have somebody come in and cook and do laundry or how did you work that out?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:60", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.298116259078338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had electric lights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of kitchen facilities were there? Wood stove or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to recall. I don't remember if it was wood fired or electric stove. I don't think it was gas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did you have somebody come in and cook and do laundry or how did you work that out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I know we had, I suspect we had somebody come in and we had the laundry taken care of, but I think we did most of our own cooking. At least that's what I recall. Cooking, it obviously wasn't memorable enough for me to remember what that was. I think we also ate out a lot. There was always this, you know, usually as a Peace Corps volunteer, you tended to get invited to a lot of people's homes for dinner. And then I think they also tried to every once in a while, or a lot of times, to play get the gringo. So let's see if we can serve some exotic Colombian thing to see if we see, you know, how well, how macho they are. Will they eat it? You know, you stirred the chicken soup and the feet would float past. Is that going to turn you off or are you going to go ahead with this? So it was. And maybe they did it inadvertently, but it was the truth. We sure all felt like they were playing get the gringo.\n\nAnd I stayed in there about two to three months, and then they got a job for me with the Department of Public Works in Cali, where I was essentially their free architect, and they could put me on any project they wanted. I'd draw plans up for schools and this library, a library up in Tuluá, which is about 16 miles north of Cali."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you were in this town with the three of you, the other two were community development did you say?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.22012917675371, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to recall. I don't remember if it was wood fired or electric stove. I don't think it was gas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did you have somebody come in and cook and do laundry or how did you work that out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I know we had, I suspect we had somebody come in and we had the laundry taken care of, but I think we did most of our own cooking. At least that's what I recall. Cooking, it obviously wasn't memorable enough for me to remember what that was. I think we also ate out a lot. There was always this, you know, usually as a Peace Corps volunteer, you tended to get invited to a lot of people's homes for dinner. And then I think they also tried to every once in a while, or a lot of times, to play get the gringo. So let's see if we can serve some exotic Colombian thing to see if we see, you know, how well, how macho they are. Will they eat it? You know, you stirred the chicken soup and the feet would float past. Is that going to turn you off or are you going to go ahead with this? So it was. And maybe they did it inadvertently, but it was the truth. We sure all felt like they were playing get the gringo.\n\nAnd I stayed in there about two to three months, and then they got a job for me with the Department of Public Works in Cali, where I was essentially their free architect, and they could put me on any project they wanted. I'd draw plans up for schools and this library, a library up in Tuluá, which is about 16 miles north of Cali."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you were in this town with the three of you, the other two were community development did you say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and you were there for two or three months?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:64", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.3556990852819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I know we had, I suspect we had somebody come in and we had the laundry taken care of, but I think we did most of our own cooking. At least that's what I recall. Cooking, it obviously wasn't memorable enough for me to remember what that was. I think we also ate out a lot. There was always this, you know, usually as a Peace Corps volunteer, you tended to get invited to a lot of people's homes for dinner. And then I think they also tried to every once in a while, or a lot of times, to play get the gringo. So let's see if we can serve some exotic Colombian thing to see if we see, you know, how well, how macho they are. Will they eat it? You know, you stirred the chicken soup and the feet would float past. Is that going to turn you off or are you going to go ahead with this? So it was. And maybe they did it inadvertently, but it was the truth. We sure all felt like they were playing get the gringo.\n\nAnd I stayed in there about two to three months, and then they got a job for me with the Department of Public Works in Cali, where I was essentially their free architect, and they could put me on any project they wanted. I'd draw plans up for schools and this library, a library up in Tuluá, which is about 16 miles north of Cali."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you were in this town with the three of you, the other two were community development did you say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and you were there for two or three months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much as I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was no particular assignment then at that time."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:66", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.617443428090997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and you were there for two or three months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much as I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was no particular assignment then at that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just supporting their community development. The idea was, first of all, to help me get my language skills improved a little bit. Plus just getting to know how things worked in Colombia. And I don't think there was, they hadn't quite arranged for an opening yet. I may have been there longer than two or three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kinds of projects might you've got involved with initially with these? Or were they still kind of getting their sea legs?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:68", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.908270475656664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much as I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was no particular assignment then at that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just supporting their community development. The idea was, first of all, to help me get my language skills improved a little bit. Plus just getting to know how things worked in Colombia. And I don't think there was, they hadn't quite arranged for an opening yet. I may have been there longer than two or three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kinds of projects might you've got involved with initially with these? Or were they still kind of getting their sea legs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they'd been there a while. They'd been there probably almost a year by the time I got there. They were one of the first Colombian groups to come in. So they've been there and maybe it was six months, I can't recall, but they'd been there long enough that they knew all the folks in town and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they did a lot to help you get integrated into the community."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.898078306285182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just supporting their community development. The idea was, first of all, to help me get my language skills improved a little bit. Plus just getting to know how things worked in Colombia. And I don't think there was, they hadn't quite arranged for an opening yet. I may have been there longer than two or three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kinds of projects might you've got involved with initially with these? Or were they still kind of getting their sea legs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they'd been there a while. They'd been there probably almost a year by the time I got there. They were one of the first Colombian groups to come in. So they've been there and maybe it was six months, I can't recall, but they'd been there long enough that they knew all the folks in town and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they did a lot to help you get integrated into the community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so I got introduced to a lot of folks. But I do remember we did put on a, uh, that was right when the Beatles came in. They had a talent night at the local movie theater, and so we put on a talent show. Dominick plays, he was the only musician. He could play the accordion, and he had his accordion. So we put on his imitation of the Beatles numbers with mops on our heads. And I think we scared the Colombians. They thought that some banditos were coming and taking over the talent show. Steve Chestnut could play the guitar and I could shout, about my only talent. But that lasted about three or four months with a lot of runs up into the surrounding hills on jeeps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it like a rainforest area?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 18.77564256253909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they'd been there a while. They'd been there probably almost a year by the time I got there. They were one of the first Colombian groups to come in. So they've been there and maybe it was six months, I can't recall, but they'd been there long enough that they knew all the folks in town and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they did a lot to help you get integrated into the community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so I got introduced to a lot of folks. But I do remember we did put on a, uh, that was right when the Beatles came in. They had a talent night at the local movie theater, and so we put on a talent show. Dominick plays, he was the only musician. He could play the accordion, and he had his accordion. So we put on his imitation of the Beatles numbers with mops on our heads. And I think we scared the Colombians. They thought that some banditos were coming and taking over the talent show. Steve Chestnut could play the guitar and I could shout, about my only talent. But that lasted about three or four months with a lot of runs up into the surrounding hills on jeeps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it like a rainforest area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. It was, well, as you got more up into the mountains, it got to the bottom. The real rainforest was down near on the way to Buenaventura where it rains 300 inches a year. And if you don't put a light bulb in your closet, your shoes will turn green overnight. Just really it just rains every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you were more up in the mountains. Was it a bit cooler?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.084047291710101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so I got introduced to a lot of folks. But I do remember we did put on a, uh, that was right when the Beatles came in. They had a talent night at the local movie theater, and so we put on a talent show. Dominick plays, he was the only musician. He could play the accordion, and he had his accordion. So we put on his imitation of the Beatles numbers with mops on our heads. And I think we scared the Colombians. They thought that some banditos were coming and taking over the talent show. Steve Chestnut could play the guitar and I could shout, about my only talent. But that lasted about three or four months with a lot of runs up into the surrounding hills on jeeps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it like a rainforest area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. It was, well, as you got more up into the mountains, it got to the bottom. The real rainforest was down near on the way to Buenaventura where it rains 300 inches a year. And if you don't put a light bulb in your closet, your shoes will turn green overnight. Just really it just rains every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you were more up in the mountains. Was it a bit cooler?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Cali is in the Cauca River Valley, which is probably, you know, 2,000 feet or something like that. But it's only four degrees north of the equator, but it's 85 degrees all year round. Nice little breeze comes up at 4:30 in the afternoon. So you got done with whatever you're doing and go sit down at a sidewalk cafe and have a beer. We got to know a lot of guys from the Bank of London and Montreal and we convinced them that Peace Corps guys didn't make any money, so they should pay for most of the beer and that worked out pretty well. And so we really had a, it's an almost climate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now this was Cali, this wasn't your little village?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.537830324122334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. It was, well, as you got more up into the mountains, it got to the bottom. The real rainforest was down near on the way to Buenaventura where it rains 300 inches a year. And if you don't put a light bulb in your closet, your shoes will turn green overnight. Just really it just rains every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you were more up in the mountains. Was it a bit cooler?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Cali is in the Cauca River Valley, which is probably, you know, 2,000 feet or something like that. But it's only four degrees north of the equator, but it's 85 degrees all year round. Nice little breeze comes up at 4:30 in the afternoon. So you got done with whatever you're doing and go sit down at a sidewalk cafe and have a beer. We got to know a lot of guys from the Bank of London and Montreal and we convinced them that Peace Corps guys didn't make any money, so they should pay for most of the beer and that worked out pretty well. And so we really had a, it's an almost climate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now this was Cali, this wasn't your little village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was Cali, but you commuted back and forth, so we would go into Cali."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you get back and forth to Cali?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.042033693469259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Cali is in the Cauca River Valley, which is probably, you know, 2,000 feet or something like that. But it's only four degrees north of the equator, but it's 85 degrees all year round. Nice little breeze comes up at 4:30 in the afternoon. So you got done with whatever you're doing and go sit down at a sidewalk cafe and have a beer. We got to know a lot of guys from the Bank of London and Montreal and we convinced them that Peace Corps guys didn't make any money, so they should pay for most of the beer and that worked out pretty well. And so we really had a, it's an almost climate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now this was Cali, this wasn't your little village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was Cali, but you commuted back and forth, so we would go into Cali."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you get back and forth to Cali?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You'd pay for one of the little busses that would come by. Or you find one of the fathers of one of your friends, or friends or people you're working with, who would drive in that day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were the busses, like vans or big ones with chickens?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.602259659410286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was Cali, but you commuted back and forth, so we would go into Cali."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you get back and forth to Cali?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You'd pay for one of the little busses that would come by. Or you find one of the fathers of one of your friends, or friends or people you're working with, who would drive in that day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were the busses, like vans or big ones with chickens?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had all the sorts of stuff and it was, I thought it was kind of humorous because Colombians always would fight to see who can get on the bus first. The bus would pull up and people were fighting their way on. But people would take their chickens on there. And I can't remember what it probably cost. 15 centavos or some? I think it was to ride the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, if they all fought to get on, I assume you ended up standing most of the time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:82", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.22473295490032, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You'd pay for one of the little busses that would come by. Or you find one of the fathers of one of your friends, or friends or people you're working with, who would drive in that day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were the busses, like vans or big ones with chickens?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had all the sorts of stuff and it was, I thought it was kind of humorous because Colombians always would fight to see who can get on the bus first. The bus would pull up and people were fighting their way on. But people would take their chickens on there. And I can't remember what it probably cost. 15 centavos or some? I think it was to ride the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, if they all fought to get on, I assume you ended up standing most of the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, usually you could find a seat. There were, uh, I remember the busses, they just had long benches and you kind of got in from the side, sort of like one of those trams at Disneyworld or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Open sides so you come in."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:84", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.69414772766702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had all the sorts of stuff and it was, I thought it was kind of humorous because Colombians always would fight to see who can get on the bus first. The bus would pull up and people were fighting their way on. But people would take their chickens on there. And I can't remember what it probably cost. 15 centavos or some? I think it was to ride the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, if they all fought to get on, I assume you ended up standing most of the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, usually you could find a seat. There were, uh, I remember the busses, they just had long benches and you kind of got in from the side, sort of like one of those trams at Disneyworld or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Open sides so you come in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you come in on the sides. And some of them where you walked in the door and walked down an aisle like a traditional bus. I don't remember standing all that much. We did go to a sort of a town that was between Pradera and Cali. It was called Palmira if I remember correctly, where they had exchange students that these guys had gotten to know that were getting ready to go to the United States. So we'd go have lunch with the families of these kids that were getting sent up to Chillicothe, Ohio. I don't know why I remember that. Chillicothe was the name I remember. And so they wanted to make sure that their kids learned English. And so they would invite the Peace Corps volunteers so their sons could practice before they got to Chillicothe, Ohio.\n\nAnd it was kind of like a triangle. There was a back road that went into straight from Pradera into Cali with the sugar cane fields, and then there was the main road that went to Palmira. So we took the bus, we went the main road to Palmira and then back into Cali. Or if you got a ride from somebody, you took this little two-lane road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like, was it curvy driving up and down hills?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:86", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.993497475185576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, usually you could find a seat. There were, uh, I remember the busses, they just had long benches and you kind of got in from the side, sort of like one of those trams at Disneyworld or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Open sides so you come in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you come in on the sides. And some of them where you walked in the door and walked down an aisle like a traditional bus. I don't remember standing all that much. We did go to a sort of a town that was between Pradera and Cali. It was called Palmira if I remember correctly, where they had exchange students that these guys had gotten to know that were getting ready to go to the United States. So we'd go have lunch with the families of these kids that were getting sent up to Chillicothe, Ohio. I don't know why I remember that. Chillicothe was the name I remember. And so they wanted to make sure that their kids learned English. And so they would invite the Peace Corps volunteers so their sons could practice before they got to Chillicothe, Ohio.\n\nAnd it was kind of like a triangle. There was a back road that went into straight from Pradera into Cali with the sugar cane fields, and then there was the main road that went to Palmira. So we took the bus, we went the main road to Palmira and then back into Cali. Or if you got a ride from somebody, you took this little two-lane road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like, was it curvy driving up and down hills?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was pretty flat. Cauca River Valley is pretty flat. It's all sugar cane. If you went off of the valley floor, then it got pretty hilly. But the mountains in Colombia, you know, they go from 12 to 15,000 feet and green right over the top. I think the tree line's at 15,000 feet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there a lot of traffic on the roads or just the busses?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:88", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.437219416872862, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you come in on the sides. And some of them where you walked in the door and walked down an aisle like a traditional bus. I don't remember standing all that much. We did go to a sort of a town that was between Pradera and Cali. It was called Palmira if I remember correctly, where they had exchange students that these guys had gotten to know that were getting ready to go to the United States. So we'd go have lunch with the families of these kids that were getting sent up to Chillicothe, Ohio. I don't know why I remember that. Chillicothe was the name I remember. And so they wanted to make sure that their kids learned English. And so they would invite the Peace Corps volunteers so their sons could practice before they got to Chillicothe, Ohio.\n\nAnd it was kind of like a triangle. There was a back road that went into straight from Pradera into Cali with the sugar cane fields, and then there was the main road that went to Palmira. So we took the bus, we went the main road to Palmira and then back into Cali. Or if you got a ride from somebody, you took this little two-lane road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like, was it curvy driving up and down hills?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was pretty flat. Cauca River Valley is pretty flat. It's all sugar cane. If you went off of the valley floor, then it got pretty hilly. But the mountains in Colombia, you know, they go from 12 to 15,000 feet and green right over the top. I think the tree line's at 15,000 feet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there a lot of traffic on the roads or just the busses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was quite a bit of traffic. I don't remember the traffic that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about the drivers and driving, any harrowing stories?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:90", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.930243796525403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was pretty flat. Cauca River Valley is pretty flat. It's all sugar cane. If you went off of the valley floor, then it got pretty hilly. But the mountains in Colombia, you know, they go from 12 to 15,000 feet and green right over the top. I think the tree line's at 15,000 feet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there a lot of traffic on the roads or just the busses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was quite a bit of traffic. I don't remember the traffic that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about the drivers and driving, any harrowing stories?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, we have. One of the fathers, and it may have been Dominick's future father-in-law, I can't recall, took us to the cockfights one night and that was in the outskirts of Cali. So we went to the cockfights and all those betting's going on. I couldn't figure out how they were betting. They'd put little money in these little rubber balls and split it up and throw it around. Somehow, if you caught the thing and there was a way of betting that you would put your money in the ball and threw it back and the bookie would take your money and write it all down. And it was all depending on, you know, until one of the roosters died. That was the. And I'm not sure whether cockfighting was legal in Colombia or not. Obviously, it's not legal here. But the ride home was, their sort of tradition is that the ride home was that you stopped at every bar on the way to get a shot of aguardiente, which was their licorice flavored liquor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's really potent?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:96", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.03325623666036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was like a cognac. Well, it was made out of sugar cane, and it obviously wasn't anywhere near as nice as cognac. And so we were stopping at one of theme, and I think he was just blitzed and we were driving back and he was driving a jeep and we were driving on the wrong side of the road, going about 60 miles an hour. And there were these two headlights coming in front of us, and I was about ready to jump out of jeep. And two headlights came toward us and they happened to be two motorcycles and they split and then went around on each side. And I about had to clean off my shorts. Fortunately, I was probably a little bit wrong because I didn't, it didn't occur to me that we were really in danger until the last minute. I'll never forget that ride, but fortunately it turned out OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now from the little town, how did you get transferred to Cali?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was always kind of been, the Peace Corps was trying to make that happen. They just didn't have the logistics arranged with the Department of Public Works. And so I can't remember the sequence of events. Because I lived for three or four months up in Tuluá, which is about an hour's drive north up the Cauca River Valley. The Cauca River runs across north to south."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was different than the little town with the two community development volunteers. Now you moved someplace else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I moved up to Tuluá, which was to work on this library project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get involved with that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:98", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.592506929622623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was always kind of been, the Peace Corps was trying to make that happen. They just didn't have the logistics arranged with the Department of Public Works. And so I can't remember the sequence of events. Because I lived for three or four months up in Tuluá, which is about an hour's drive north up the Cauca River Valley. The Cauca River runs across north to south."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was different than the little town with the two community development volunteers. Now you moved someplace else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I moved up to Tuluá, which was to work on this library project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get involved with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, no, you were the architect."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:100", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.32500769958069, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I moved up to Tuluá, which was to work on this library project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get involved with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, no, you were the architect."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember if I went to the. I think what happened was I went to the Department of Public Works first and then they said, well, we've got this project with this architect, you know, up in Tuluá. There was this old building that was in the center of town that they'd gotten partway done, and I don't know if it was part of a hotel or something else. And then the project had been abandoned. So it was this thing was just sitting there and it was essentially was two brick walls and a concrete roof over the front and a couple of columns on the back. And they wanted to build an intermediate floor and put glass on each end and make it a library, because it was right on the town square. And so they sent me up there to get that project going, which I think was finally built, although it was built after I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The town wanted that library?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:102", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.138897443978546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, no, you were the architect."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember if I went to the. I think what happened was I went to the Department of Public Works first and then they said, well, we've got this project with this architect, you know, up in Tuluá. There was this old building that was in the center of town that they'd gotten partway done, and I don't know if it was part of a hotel or something else. And then the project had been abandoned. So it was this thing was just sitting there and it was essentially was two brick walls and a concrete roof over the front and a couple of columns on the back. And they wanted to build an intermediate floor and put glass on each end and make it a library, because it was right on the town square. And so they sent me up there to get that project going, which I think was finally built, although it was built after I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The town wanted that library?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, kind of. Excuse me, the state of Valle del Cauca. Because I have the sign that says my name on it, that was the sign they put on the public library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got a little plaque there with your name on it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:104", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.932108271087273, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember if I went to the. I think what happened was I went to the Department of Public Works first and then they said, well, we've got this project with this architect, you know, up in Tuluá. There was this old building that was in the center of town that they'd gotten partway done, and I don't know if it was part of a hotel or something else. And then the project had been abandoned. So it was this thing was just sitting there and it was essentially was two brick walls and a concrete roof over the front and a couple of columns on the back. And they wanted to build an intermediate floor and put glass on each end and make it a library, because it was right on the town square. And so they sent me up there to get that project going, which I think was finally built, although it was built after I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The town wanted that library?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, kind of. Excuse me, the state of Valle del Cauca. Because I have the sign that says my name on it, that was the sign they put on the public library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got a little plaque there with your name on it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was the. Well, they had this building and I'm sure that as the local politicians were lobbying to the governor's office in Cali. Colombia's divided up into a series of states or provinces and the Cauca River Valley is one of them. Cali is the capital, but Tuluá was one of the cities. In fact Tuluá was where that American Airlines plane crashed on its way to Cali in the early '70s. It was coming into the airport in Cali and lost power or whatever and crashed. But it was, hopefully it didn't knock out my library, but unfortunately that's less important and unfortunately for folks that were on the plane.\n\nUm, but I lived up there for three or four months and worked on this project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only Peace Corps volunteer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:106", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.924564745652525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, kind of. Excuse me, the state of Valle del Cauca. Because I have the sign that says my name on it, that was the sign they put on the public library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got a little plaque there with your name on it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was the. Well, they had this building and I'm sure that as the local politicians were lobbying to the governor's office in Cali. Colombia's divided up into a series of states or provinces and the Cauca River Valley is one of them. Cali is the capital, but Tuluá was one of the cities. In fact Tuluá was where that American Airlines plane crashed on its way to Cali in the early '70s. It was coming into the airport in Cali and lost power or whatever and crashed. But it was, hopefully it didn't knock out my library, but unfortunately that's less important and unfortunately for folks that were on the plane.\n\nUm, but I lived up there for three or four months and worked on this project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only one in, in fact, there were a couple of other volunteers up there that were teaching English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were your living accommodations there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:108", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 22.13840527294725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was the. Well, they had this building and I'm sure that as the local politicians were lobbying to the governor's office in Cali. Colombia's divided up into a series of states or provinces and the Cauca River Valley is one of them. Cali is the capital, but Tuluá was one of the cities. In fact Tuluá was where that American Airlines plane crashed on its way to Cali in the early '70s. It was coming into the airport in Cali and lost power or whatever and crashed. But it was, hopefully it didn't knock out my library, but unfortunately that's less important and unfortunately for folks that were on the plane.\n\nUm, but I lived up there for three or four months and worked on this project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only one in, in fact, there were a couple of other volunteers up there that were teaching English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were your living accommodations there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had an apartment. Just a one room apartment that I went out and built my own furniture for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, tell that story."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:110", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.376005858830277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only one in, in fact, there were a couple of other volunteers up there that were teaching English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were your living accommodations there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had an apartment. Just a one room apartment that I went out and built my own furniture for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, tell that story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I drew it up and went to the lumber yard and bought a bunch of wood. With hand tools, cut it up and made a bed and a series of tables and some other things. It was, I think it was on the second or third floor, third floor over the top of a bunch of shops. But it was, you know, it was austere, but okay. And the architect, his name was Carlos Potes, P-O-T-E-S. He was Colombian, but he'd studied architecture at the University of Miami in Miami, Florida. And his wife was an American. He'd met her in college and she was living, she'd gone back with him to Colombia. So he was. And they had three or four kids, but I was over their house a lot getting dinner and he was taking me around and showing me all the things to do. And his name is on that sign too. And that was probably the project that I'm really sure did get built. One of the challenges of being an architect is it always takes two or three years for your project. It takes you a year to design it, a year to build it. You're only there for 18 months. I was there for actually 22 months because I extended for a few months at the end. But things get built after you left, and I haven't been back since then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they had a good work crew to get this done and no problems with bureaucracy to speak of then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:116", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.233204195926303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really that I recall. They, and there probably was, but they weren't telling me about them. I just do the drawings and they figured out how to get the, get everything built. It wasn't like here where we'd go out and watch construction, make sure they're doing it correctly. They had me off on another project by that time. Um, but I had to do everything in the metric system and in Spanish. So I, which, you know, I had my technical dictionary out there to, you know, what's this called? And the metric system is, once you get used to, isn't too tough. But I actually did it in both feet and inches and the metric system, because almost all of the building materials either were made in the United States, or a lot of them, or they were made with dies and tools that were made in the United States. So you'd have four meters of six inch pipe because the pipe, it all came from the United States. That's probably not true anymore, but it was certainly true back then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, this is still all in your first year there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so then after the library project, what's um?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When that started getting under construction then they moved me back and put me in the Department of Public Works in Cali. And I designed a couple of schools as I recall. I think I may have the plans someplace here. I haven't been able to find them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did you work with a number of architects in the public works department? Or were you it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:118", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.703560217695893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so then after the library project, what's um?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When that started getting under construction then they moved me back and put me in the Department of Public Works in Cali. And I designed a couple of schools as I recall. I think I may have the plans someplace here. I haven't been able to find them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did you work with a number of architects in the public works department? Or were you it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was sort of their free architect. So if they had a job that, you know, that they needed an architect for, then I was the guy that could go out with them to go out to a community, look at the site, take some pictures, talk to folks to find out what they wanted. Draw up a sort of plan so that they could then figure out whether they could fit it in the budget. And so I was, I could essentially give them a little political cover. I could go out and I could talk to the community. And so that the politicians say, well, see, we were responding to your request. You know, we've got the plans started. And it could have taken four or five years after that before there was anything, I have no idea. I think they did build a couple of things that I designed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have other architects there in training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:120", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.337289130773215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When that started getting under construction then they moved me back and put me in the Department of Public Works in Cali. And I designed a couple of schools as I recall. I think I may have the plans someplace here. I haven't been able to find them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did you work with a number of architects in the public works department? Or were you it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was sort of their free architect. So if they had a job that, you know, that they needed an architect for, then I was the guy that could go out with them to go out to a community, look at the site, take some pictures, talk to folks to find out what they wanted. Draw up a sort of plan so that they could then figure out whether they could fit it in the budget. And so I was, I could essentially give them a little political cover. I could go out and I could talk to the community. And so that the politicians say, well, see, we were responding to your request. You know, we've got the plans started. And it could have taken four or five years after that before there was anything, I have no idea. I think they did build a couple of things that I designed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have other architects there in training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a couple of other architects, but a lot of the projects were done by architects in private practice as opposed to working directly for the firm. Most of the other folks in the department I was in were engineers, I think. I don't recall another architect. Memory's getting kind of fuzzy. I remember we did everything in ink on linen paper, as opposed to the computers we use today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a regular eight to five job?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:122", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.152543478636904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was sort of their free architect. So if they had a job that, you know, that they needed an architect for, then I was the guy that could go out with them to go out to a community, look at the site, take some pictures, talk to folks to find out what they wanted. Draw up a sort of plan so that they could then figure out whether they could fit it in the budget. And so I was, I could essentially give them a little political cover. I could go out and I could talk to the community. And so that the politicians say, well, see, we were responding to your request. You know, we've got the plans started. And it could have taken four or five years after that before there was anything, I have no idea. I think they did build a couple of things that I designed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have other architects there in training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a couple of other architects, but a lot of the projects were done by architects in private practice as opposed to working directly for the firm. Most of the other folks in the department I was in were engineers, I think. I don't recall another architect. Memory's getting kind of fuzzy. I remember we did everything in ink on linen paper, as opposed to the computers we use today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a regular eight to five job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have to dress in a suit?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:124", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.169492754041002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a couple of other architects, but a lot of the projects were done by architects in private practice as opposed to working directly for the firm. Most of the other folks in the department I was in were engineers, I think. I don't recall another architect. Memory's getting kind of fuzzy. I remember we did everything in ink on linen paper, as opposed to the computers we use today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a regular eight to five job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have to dress in a suit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was mostly. Cali was, there were some a lot of, you know, the politicians are all dressed in suits. Everybody else dressed in a shirt similar to what you have on, or what I've got on. It was, uh, we didn't have to put on a coat and tie, at least not that I remember. I'm sure I had one because I had one for the wedding, but I don't remember anything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now how is it similar or different from working in an architect's office here in the States at the time, would you guess?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:132", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.89284065545039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's Catholic. They thought he, and they knew there was a connection with the Peace Corps. But the pictures of Kennedy were in the bars before we ever got there. There was no picture of the Colombian president. There was a picture of Jack Kennedy behind the bar. I'm not sure that's where he would have wanted all his pictures to be, but it was a. That was the real link in the community. It was obvious that he was extremely well received in South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, you lived first with the two community development in a house, then you had the apartment by the library. Now when you moved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I took over, there were a series of these business development or cooperative volunteers that were in Cali that we're working with a variety of different cooperative groups trying to develop things. And they had, one of the guys had an apartment in Cali that was, it was I think, a one bedroom apartment in this little, in the whole group of these are kind of built up on like. They're all white stucco and you walk up a couple steps. It's almost like in a, you know, you see them in the Greek pictures, you know, in the Olympics or an Italian hill town. Really kind of a neat little thing, have windows on the courtyard. And really, we're just kind of passing that off from one volunteer to the other so we didn't have to renegotiate our lease. And it was about a 10 block walk to my office, so it was really quite nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you lived by yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived by myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have somebody to help you to cook or do laundry?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:134", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.88093406161154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I took over, there were a series of these business development or cooperative volunteers that were in Cali that we're working with a variety of different cooperative groups trying to develop things. And they had, one of the guys had an apartment in Cali that was, it was I think, a one bedroom apartment in this little, in the whole group of these are kind of built up on like. They're all white stucco and you walk up a couple steps. It's almost like in a, you know, you see them in the Greek pictures, you know, in the Olympics or an Italian hill town. Really kind of a neat little thing, have windows on the courtyard. And really, we're just kind of passing that off from one volunteer to the other so we didn't have to renegotiate our lease. And it was about a 10 block walk to my office, so it was really quite nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you lived by yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived by myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have somebody to help you to cook or do laundry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nah, I did that myself. Well, laundry, I gave that to somebody else to do, I don't remember. I don't remember going to a laundromat or anything like that, but I didn't have, there was no servants or anything like that. Of course, the people want me to, and I know the other volunteers in other parts of the world had them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you walk to work, did you have a bicycle too? Or was walking?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:136", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.089926735123935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived by myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have somebody to help you to cook or do laundry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nah, I did that myself. Well, laundry, I gave that to somebody else to do, I don't remember. I don't remember going to a laundromat or anything like that, but I didn't have, there was no servants or anything like that. Of course, the people want me to, and I know the other volunteers in other parts of the world had them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you walk to work, did you have a bicycle too? Or was walking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Primarily walking. I don't remember having, um, I know some guys had motor scooters and things like that, but I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like walking through town? How would you describe that experience?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:144", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 23.45667845621694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really got into watching soccer because they had professional soccer teams there and most of the, a lot of the really good players were from Argentina. The Colombians are rabid sports fans, especially for football or soccer. And they're just continually yelling the whole game, I don't know how they come out with any voice at all. But they had some really good players and it was a professional league, just like baseball or football is here in United States. Colombia probably had 10 or 15 teams. Every town had a team. In fact, Cali had two teams. Bogota probably had a couple, and I'm sure Medellin had a couple too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You say that brings back memories of me in my training. They taught us how to play soccer. Did you have that too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Back when I was in the Army, I came back from Vietnam and I was a tack officer at Officer Candidate School. I used soccer as a fitness thing in the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you play soccer in Colombia then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, a little bit, not very much. I mean, they could just run circles around me every day. Forget it, I was a post standing there and they were like. I could maybe slow them down a little bit but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd occasionally do a game or something?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:146", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.3963093957966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Back when I was in the Army, I came back from Vietnam and I was a tack officer at Officer Candidate School. I used soccer as a fitness thing in the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you play soccer in Colombia then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, a little bit, not very much. I mean, they could just run circles around me every day. Forget it, I was a post standing there and they were like. I could maybe slow them down a little bit but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd occasionally do a game or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'd occasionally get into a game. I do remember that the, I think it's in the summer that the Spanish, the really good Spanish bullfighters would come to South America. I think their season is in the winter or it's the other way around. I can't remember. It may have been in the winter because their seasons. But we had El Portales, who was the rock star of bullfighters in the early '60s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your first bullfight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:148", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 21.551454884218444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, a little bit, not very much. I mean, they could just run circles around me every day. Forget it, I was a post standing there and they were like. I could maybe slow them down a little bit but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd occasionally do a game or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'd occasionally get into a game. I do remember that the, I think it's in the summer that the Spanish, the really good Spanish bullfighters would come to South America. I think their season is in the winter or it's the other way around. I can't remember. It may have been in the winter because their seasons. But we had El Portales, who was the rock star of bullfighters in the early '60s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your first bullfight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was that like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:150", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.612727649131603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'd occasionally get into a game. I do remember that the, I think it's in the summer that the Spanish, the really good Spanish bullfighters would come to South America. I think their season is in the winter or it's the other way around. I can't remember. It may have been in the winter because their seasons. But we had El Portales, who was the rock star of bullfighters in the early '60s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your first bullfight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually found it really interesting, I mean, it's a phenomenal pageant. I'm sure many people feel it's too bloody and everything else, but it was a phenomenal pageant. I did see one bull spared, which is really unusual. There's a great movie about a bull and a little boy that takes place in Mexico. Anyway. But we saw all of the really good bullfighters from Spain who come through Colombia sort of on their off season and they would stay for a couple of weeks. But bullfights were always packed. You've got to learn why the shade seats were really a lot better than sun seats because it gets pretty hot. We'd always go and, you know, you fill the bag full of wine. We had a good time. Between that and the soccer matches, it was uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they as rabid at the bullfights with, like the soccer where everybody's screaming all time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:152", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 22.903030721257338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually found it really interesting, I mean, it's a phenomenal pageant. I'm sure many people feel it's too bloody and everything else, but it was a phenomenal pageant. I did see one bull spared, which is really unusual. There's a great movie about a bull and a little boy that takes place in Mexico. Anyway. But we saw all of the really good bullfighters from Spain who come through Colombia sort of on their off season and they would stay for a couple of weeks. But bullfights were always packed. You've got to learn why the shade seats were really a lot better than sun seats because it gets pretty hot. We'd always go and, you know, you fill the bag full of wine. We had a good time. Between that and the soccer matches, it was uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they as rabid at the bullfights with, like the soccer where everybody's screaming all time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not quite as rabid. But they would really get into it if the bullfighter and the bull was aggressive and the bullfighter was really good. I mean, it's really a, you know, sort of ad hoc choreography the way they do those things. It's actually a beautiful way they do the passes. Like a ballet, a very dangerous ballet. I think we saw one guy get gored, although not that badly. The fight is definitely to the advantage of the matador. I mean, there's definitely. But it was, the Colombians really got into it. They'd get into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any particular friends you'd go to these, either Peace Corps or Colombian?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:164", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.54213115144925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nets, they did some nets. Some spearfishing. They had these little watches that they go out and they make them. The guy we went out with at one time and we asked him what he was going out for and he was going out for a fish or shark. We landed a small shark and got it in the boat, it's thrashing around. And we got one of our guys, he's got a machete and he's whacking away at the top of the shark and it's not making any difference at all. And finally, this Colombian guy comes up and he does like a judo chop in the right place. A machete wasn't such a. And then they, blood off on the side, and I think they kind of were, you know, they weren't, they did the real fishing when they when the Peace Corps volunteers weren't around giving them, you know, distracting them from their work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was it a boat the size of a shrimp boat or an American fishing boat or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was probably maybe 20, 25 feet long at the most."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume motor powered?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had an outboard motor on the back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of you would be in this boat?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:166", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.824590168276945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was probably maybe 20, 25 feet long at the most."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume motor powered?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had an outboard motor on the back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of you would be in this boat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had four of us in the boat when we were going out. It was relatively small, as I remember, it had a little cabin on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this out in the Pacific?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:168", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.24954463141883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had an outboard motor on the back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of you would be in this boat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had four of us in the boat when we were going out. It was relatively small, as I remember, it had a little cabin on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this out in the Pacific?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of what we were fishing with within the estuaries, in these islands off the point of Buenaventura. We weren't really out in the Pacific and it was relatively calm, excuse me, as I recall. We weren't out there with, you know, four- or six-foot swells going up and down. It was actually the most, I guess, most primitive part of life in Colombia because when we got into the cities of Colombia, it was really quite like going to Spain. I mean, it was really quite, very nice lifestyle. It was very southern, almost like being on the southern coast of Spain or something like that. But when you got out in the jungle and it's probably still true today, it's extremely different, like being in the Amazon River basin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, interesting variety of experiences, both work and leisure. I'm thinking of that sewer system for the island versus a library versus schools. Any other kinds of work projects that you were involved in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:170", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 26.94393847935425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had four of us in the boat when we were going out. It was relatively small, as I remember, it had a little cabin on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this out in the Pacific?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of what we were fishing with within the estuaries, in these islands off the point of Buenaventura. We weren't really out in the Pacific and it was relatively calm, excuse me, as I recall. We weren't out there with, you know, four- or six-foot swells going up and down. It was actually the most, I guess, most primitive part of life in Colombia because when we got into the cities of Colombia, it was really quite like going to Spain. I mean, it was really quite, very nice lifestyle. It was very southern, almost like being on the southern coast of Spain or something like that. But when you got out in the jungle and it's probably still true today, it's extremely different, like being in the Amazon River basin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, interesting variety of experiences, both work and leisure. I'm thinking of that sewer system for the island versus a library versus schools. Any other kinds of work projects that you were involved in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been trying to remember when, after you called us. Those are the main ones that I remember. I'm sure I worked on a lot of other things and they brought me in on, you know, we'd go out and we'd look at stuff and make conclusions. A lot of times they kind of brought Peace Corps volunteers along because they could, you know, you were their, well, here's my architect. We served that role because it helped out their prestige. You also learn in Colombia that if you wear sunglasses, they always call you doctor, regardless of whether you have any medical background or academic training. So we always would wear sunglasses because that gets you extra respect. Most Americans, Peace Corps volunteers, they'd call doctor just as a respect thing, regardless of whether they deserved it. It's a gorgeous country, it's a shame that it's torn up today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a drug issue back then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:184", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.789677874463024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, that's the, that was sort of a hallmark of a lot of Inca architecture, was their ability to. And I'm not sure how they did it, with water or sand or pools or whatever. The rocks don't appear that they chiseled away at them, but they figured out how to fit them all together. You know, with like maybe a 32nd of an inch between them all the way around. No mortar. It's just phenomenal. And of course, that's who, what was the guy that wrote that book The Chariots of the Gods?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Von Daniken?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, whatever his name was. Of course, he was convinced they must have had help from outer space, which I thought was what an arrogant attitude. That was obviously one of the big advantages of being a Peace Corps volunteer, you got to get a good amount of vacation. Go see some part of the world you'd never have a chance to see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember you started out saying that part of joining was a sense of adventure. So you had, any other adventures that you went on? Whether it was soccer or bullfights or Machu Picchu."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Just trying to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two motorcycles coming at you."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:186", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.988530971625583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, whatever his name was. Of course, he was convinced they must have had help from outer space, which I thought was what an arrogant attitude. That was obviously one of the big advantages of being a Peace Corps volunteer, you got to get a good amount of vacation. Go see some part of the world you'd never have a chance to see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember you started out saying that part of joining was a sense of adventure. So you had, any other adventures that you went on? Whether it was soccer or bullfights or Machu Picchu."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Just trying to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two motorcycles coming at you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two motorcycles was a, um. I do recall one, we had a going away party for this guy that was the mutual fund salesman. He and his British wife were heading back to someplace, so we had this going away party for him and ended up in a. We had this American kid who was tagging along with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He wasn't Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:188", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.32058996847287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Just trying to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two motorcycles coming at you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two motorcycles was a, um. I do recall one, we had a going away party for this guy that was the mutual fund salesman. He and his British wife were heading back to someplace, so we had this going away party for him and ended up in a. We had this American kid who was tagging along with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He wasn't Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He wasn't Peace Corps, he was the son of a military guy or something. Anyway, he was belligerent, got drunk. The first time I've ever seen somebody try and hit another guy over the head with a beer bottle. It went kaboom and it just bounced right back and this kid was, didn't even faze him. Then he broke a chair and chairs got broken. All of a sudden in this bar we were in, all of the police come in. And the police all have Uzis or some machine guns, and we're all lined up against the wall. And I've just trying not to spill my drink. These are valuable things, I can't afford to let this get away. So we had to go down, we had to pay a fine, pay for the damage to the bar and do all this kind of stuff. And take one guy who got cut a little bit, get his ticket, taken to the hospital and get his stitches and stuff. It's a memorable evening. Everybody got sober in a hurry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned stitches. Now did you ever run into any health problems when you were there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00201:210", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.679164000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I was just 25 years old, I, you know, if I could extend for a whole year until I was 26, which was at that time the upper limit cut off where if you were over 26 and hadn't been drafted yet, you were. They had to draft everybody below 26 before they get to you. So this was before the lottery and all that stuff. So I got back and I had to report to the Selective Service, tell them I wasn't in the Peace Corps anymore. Oh, yeah, we're waiting for you. So that's when I enlisted in the Army, and the Army figured they had a PR bonanza with this Peace Corps volunteer. So they followed me through training with a photographer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Someplace I have pictures. And they did this in Vietnam too, followed me around Vietnam. Every once in a while, this photographer would show up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was their particular aim with this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was just, you know, I think it was part of the PR. See, the Army guys, you know, come from all walks of life, you know, which one of those. We've got this person who's serving their country twice. You know, the Army, military is pretty good at the promoting the PR side of it. At least they were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, an item here, they talk about evaluating your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps. The first one is providing technical assistance where requested. Spend a bit of time on that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00101:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 33.226528393953274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, uh. Volunteerism has always been something a part of me and my dad instilled into me when I was young, delivering baskets in the middle of winter in Rochester, New York, to needy families during Thanksgiving, during Christmas. So I always knew that I wanted to volunteer. In college, I led the Catholic Church youth group to do soup kitchen volunteer work. I was an RA in the service line corridor and service was always a part of me. So I guess the big draw for me was, hey, I can do spend two years of my life serving. And that was the big draw.\n\nI went to an intercultural festival in Hamilton, Ohio. I went to Miami University in Ohio and my friend took me to an intercultural festival and there was a Peace Corps table there. And some old returned Peace Corps volunteer was telling me stories about what he did in Africa with snakes. And I was like, that sounds awesome. I picked up a brochure and next thing you know, I'm interviewing for Peace Corps. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have a specific country or a project in mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh uh. My degree was in elementary education. And so being a minority, number one, being a male, number two, I have people throwing job offers at me because I wanted to work in the inner city and, uh, so that kind of led to my Peace Corps assignment. I wanted to be in education. That was what my degree was in, and I didn't have any. I don't even know that you could prefer at that time where you would go. And I, I told my Peace Corps recruiter that I was allergic to fish, hated hot weather, and severely prone to motion sickness. And I got invited to the Pacific Islands that had only fish, hot weather, and boat travel. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your reaction when, when you received your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where is this? Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, so and how were you trained for that assignment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00101:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 35.807253771059194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh uh. My degree was in elementary education. And so being a minority, number one, being a male, number two, I have people throwing job offers at me because I wanted to work in the inner city and, uh, so that kind of led to my Peace Corps assignment. I wanted to be in education. That was what my degree was in, and I didn't have any. I don't even know that you could prefer at that time where you would go. And I, I told my Peace Corps recruiter that I was allergic to fish, hated hot weather, and severely prone to motion sickness. And I got invited to the Pacific Islands that had only fish, hot weather, and boat travel. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your reaction when, when you received your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where is this? Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, so and how were you trained for that assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the typical, I think, at least back then, it was three months of training with a host family, living, learning how to eat, talk, walk again. The culture, the language. Yeah. Hard core, three months in the islands. So we were trained in country. We weren't trained somewhere else. We were trained in the country. And, um, yeah, we learned on the job basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to what extent to the training accurately prepare you for your assignment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00101:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 34.23028196784355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where is this? Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, so and how were you trained for that assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the typical, I think, at least back then, it was three months of training with a host family, living, learning how to eat, talk, walk again. The culture, the language. Yeah. Hard core, three months in the islands. So we were trained in country. We weren't trained somewhere else. We were trained in the country. And, um, yeah, we learned on the job basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to what extent to the training accurately prepare you for your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, hmm. It was very structured. The training was very structured. And when I got to site, it was very unstructured. So I think they may have told us, this was 19 years ago. I think they might have told us, you know, be aware that it's going to be a lot less structured than this. But when I got to site, school was not in session. And it was, I think I had a couple of days before school started. And there was, okay, go out and find the store, find the church, find people. And I didn't speak the language. I did, but I didn't. And it was it was a learning curve, a big learning curve.\n\nAnd then the kids came and it was even a bigger learning curve. I think the kids taught me more about how to speak Kiribati than I, like more intensely than I got in those three months because the kids can't speak English, like you have to do it. So sink or swim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what exactly did your, did your job entail then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00101:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 45.26796722695311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were only three villages on the smaller island, and one of those villages was the government village where the schools were. So you can't really count that as a village because it was all the government workers, but they did count as a village. We had the northern and southern, that's where most of the population was. Probably about 700 people at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the island or for the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so talk about what your living arrangements were like."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00101:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 45.85329691883679, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so talk about what your living arrangements were like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had my own house. I had the mansion of the, the Peace Corps, aside from the director, but I had cinder block tiles. I had a split level, I had a stairway, I had a concrete floor, I had a concrete hole for relieving myself. It was nice. It was a nice, nice house. I think I had the best house in the entire nation for a volunteer. It was on the teacher compound. So we lived with all the elementary school teachers. The JSS [Junior Secondary Schools] just had their own teacher compound, which was literally a few seconds bike ride and I wouldn't even bike it. I would just walk down that road.\n\nAnd the middle village is where all the teachers lived and then where members of Parliament or this island council had houses there. I had my own pump in my house, so I didn't even have to go to a well, I just pumped the water out of the, they call it a Tamana pump, but it's, I can't even describe it. It was so convenient. But I had the indoor, I call it my indoor plumbing, and it was nice. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was it like living so close to your coworkers than your host country nationals that were coworkers then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00021:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 32, "return_to_go": 69.77821357418046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my caveat is that everything I’m going to say is going to be rooted in my personal experience. I’m not offering this as concrete history or anything that I perceive to be utter fact, but my understanding of facts, things I’ve heard, or what I’ve experienced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Well, did you want to just jump right in then? We’ll start just with the questions but we’re not wedded to these questions, and if we veer off, that’s—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or if there’s something more interesting please don’t hesitate to steer us in that direction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought we would start, even before the questions, for you to just give us some general background on you and your education and your experience leading up to your decision to have a career in the Archives."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00021:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 52.19751998201571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—but we want to go through chronologically through your various careers and then we can come back and hit some highlights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, we’ve left you where you were just hired as a student. When did you become full-time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. So I was a student starting in May of 1991 and I became a CIDS kid, as they called us—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Yes. Were you the first class of the CIDS or not?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00021:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 57.997244424461904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, we’ve left you where you were just hired as a student. When did you become full-time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. So I was a student starting in May of 1991 and I became a CIDS kid, as they called us—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Yes. Were you the first class of the CIDS or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, CIDS had been around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it around for a while?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00021:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 62.219160471624335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. So I was a student starting in May of 1991 and I became a CIDS kid, as they called us—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Yes. Were you the first class of the CIDS or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, CIDS had been around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it around for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, CIDS, yeah, CIDS had been around since at least the ‘70s.\n\nSome—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Why did they stop CIDS? Do you know?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00021:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 69.13240052402703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, CIDS had been around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it around for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, CIDS, yeah, CIDS had been around since at least the ‘70s.\n\nSome—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Why did they stop CIDS? Do you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that there were, well, there’s my opinion and then there’s, I mean, I can’t really tell you exactly why. I don’t think that the reasons for why CIDS was stopped was ever very clearly explained, ever. I think that, you know, I think it might’ve had to do with money. There was maybe a question about whether or not the program really developed people the way that the managers, or the leadership, wanted that to happen. And it may have been that someone realized that it had been a long time, if ever, that the program was properly evaluated. I have no idea if anybody knew exactly how to evaluate the program. But I do know that I think around the time that it slowed or then stopped was when we started hitting our budget crunches, and we started having hiring freezes. And so I think that that was just kind of a mechanical response to a budget problem, but then it became more of an organizational development question that I think few people really understood how to approach. That’s my opinion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you felt that it was a valid program, and it was—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00990:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sorry your time was cut short. I thought we would be able to have more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re used to forest fires, too. We’re very flexible, and we try to take the best that we can. We will be looking forward to sending this to you, and then maybe when you have a chance to look at it, we’ll see if there’s some more things that we need to visit about it. And now that you’re coming to Houston on occasion, if we need to fill in some other spots, we can do that. We’ll talk to you then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. And you know, we could do telecom if you ever wanted to. I don’t know how effective that is. We could try that sometime, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll see how this works out and then we’ll go from there. So, thank you again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Flight Programs [has] a really dedicated group of people, and in our research group [we have talented and good], a very good group of people. In the publications that we’ve been getting out in our research group, we’ve been averaging about four publications per person per year. That means some are doing more than others, but still that’s a pretty good average. So, we’re glad to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, congratulations. That’s great."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00990:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. And you know, we could do telecom if you ever wanted to. I don’t know how effective that is. We could try that sometime, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll see how this works out and then we’ll go from there. So, thank you again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Flight Programs [has] a really dedicated group of people, and in our research group [we have talented and good], a very good group of people. In the publications that we’ve been getting out in our research group, we’ve been averaging about four publications per person per year. That means some are doing more than others, but still that’s a pretty good average. So, we’re glad to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, congratulations. That’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it’s in peer review journals, and that’s pretty darn good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that means, of course, that’s your enthusiasm across the division is still there, so that’s terrific."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00990:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Flight Programs [has] a really dedicated group of people, and in our research group [we have talented and good], a very good group of people. In the publications that we’ve been getting out in our research group, we’ve been averaging about four publications per person per year. That means some are doing more than others, but still that’s a pretty good average. So, we’re glad to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, congratulations. That’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it’s in peer review journals, and that’s pretty darn good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that means, of course, that’s your enthusiasm across the division is still there, so that’s terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "… We also had a really nice report from the peer review. One person had been on the previous panel in ’95, and we did that purposely so that we’d have that continuity, and they said [that our group was] much improved over ’95."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, now you continue on this path. And good luck with that area as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.197555861298312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think if you can remember back into the particularly early ‘60s and in the Kennedy administration, there was just a lot of hope in the world that that young people or this nation could make some really meaningful changes and in the world and with other nations and with other peoples. And you know, that call was very strong for me and that I can do something and make some contribution to another other people was just so appealing to me. And plus, I really wanted to travel. I never traveled very much. Never been out of the country except for Canada. And I thought that would be a very, you know, very interesting experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was life like before you joined the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just finished undergraduate school and social work, and that was really that was very fulfilling. I was very active in student affairs and very active in my fraternity and had a really nice group of friends. And so it was a very fulfilling experience and that was kind of adding to my desire to make a contribution to other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you study and what did you study?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ohio State University. I had major in social work with a minor in criminology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other life experiences that you could recall that may have also influenced you to think about serving in an organization like the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.33061762366479, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just finished undergraduate school and social work, and that was really that was very fulfilling. I was very active in student affairs and very active in my fraternity and had a really nice group of friends. And so it was a very fulfilling experience and that was kind of adding to my desire to make a contribution to other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you study and what did you study?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ohio State University. I had major in social work with a minor in criminology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other life experiences that you could recall that may have also influenced you to think about serving in an organization like the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just think my observations of the hope that was in the in the ‘60s, that this generation can make a contribution. And I was very strong on that and I'd been active in the civil rights movement and saw some changes in that too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.700686248516433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ohio State University. I had major in social work with a minor in criminology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other life experiences that you could recall that may have also influenced you to think about serving in an organization like the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just think my observations of the hope that was in the in the ‘60s, that this generation can make a contribution. And I was very strong on that and I'd been active in the civil rights movement and saw some changes in that too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was on campus. Recruiters. There was in the news and the recruiters were around and I think, at the student union. I went over and signed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a specific country you were interested in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 23.00076249835159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just think my observations of the hope that was in the in the ‘60s, that this generation can make a contribution. And I was very strong on that and I'd been active in the civil rights movement and saw some changes in that too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was on campus. Recruiters. There was in the news and the recruiters were around and I think, at the student union. I went over and signed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a specific country you were interested in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was very interested in learning how to speak Spanish. So that was an interesting so I was my first desire was going to South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the timing like for the application process?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.4452916648351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was on campus. Recruiters. There was in the news and the recruiters were around and I think, at the student union. I went over and signed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a specific country you were interested in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was very interested in learning how to speak Spanish. So that was an interesting so I was my first desire was going to South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the timing like for the application process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was perfect because I had finished just finishing undergraduate school. I accepted an internship at the Federal Bureau of Prisons and there was a, where I was. I lived in Columbus, Ohio, at that time and there was a federal reformatory in Chillicothe, Ohio, actually the town that I grew up in. And so there was an internship that particular summer, and this project was not supposed to begin until August or late August, I believe. And so the timing was perfect because by the time I was informed early on, the project was going to be in Brazil again. Kind of a little joke because I wanted to learn Spanish, but that was a Portuguese speaking country. But it sounded interesting and it was the first offer and I took it. And I think I knew about the that right around the time I graduated in June and then with my internship and had a couple of days at home and off I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction when you were accepted?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.050324072039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was very interested in learning how to speak Spanish. So that was an interesting so I was my first desire was going to South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the timing like for the application process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was perfect because I had finished just finishing undergraduate school. I accepted an internship at the Federal Bureau of Prisons and there was a, where I was. I lived in Columbus, Ohio, at that time and there was a federal reformatory in Chillicothe, Ohio, actually the town that I grew up in. And so there was an internship that particular summer, and this project was not supposed to begin until August or late August, I believe. And so the timing was perfect because by the time I was informed early on, the project was going to be in Brazil again. Kind of a little joke because I wanted to learn Spanish, but that was a Portuguese speaking country. But it sounded interesting and it was the first offer and I took it. And I think I knew about the that right around the time I graduated in June and then with my internship and had a couple of days at home and off I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction when you were accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very honored to be accepted because I know it was that time was pretty competitive and even more competitive now I understand, but competitive and I feel, you know, you know, quite honored. In fact, some of the some of the literature at that time about people who had to face adverse situations in their life, but people that were picked for the Peace Corps were, you know, right at the top of the list. So I felt, whoa, hey, I'm part of that group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your friends and family? How did they react?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.83369341337667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was perfect because I had finished just finishing undergraduate school. I accepted an internship at the Federal Bureau of Prisons and there was a, where I was. I lived in Columbus, Ohio, at that time and there was a federal reformatory in Chillicothe, Ohio, actually the town that I grew up in. And so there was an internship that particular summer, and this project was not supposed to begin until August or late August, I believe. And so the timing was perfect because by the time I was informed early on, the project was going to be in Brazil again. Kind of a little joke because I wanted to learn Spanish, but that was a Portuguese speaking country. But it sounded interesting and it was the first offer and I took it. And I think I knew about the that right around the time I graduated in June and then with my internship and had a couple of days at home and off I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction when you were accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very honored to be accepted because I know it was that time was pretty competitive and even more competitive now I understand, but competitive and I feel, you know, you know, quite honored. In fact, some of the some of the literature at that time about people who had to face adverse situations in their life, but people that were picked for the Peace Corps were, you know, right at the top of the list. So I felt, whoa, hey, I'm part of that group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your friends and family? How did they react?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The family was not, not too keen on it. I'm an only child, so my parents were not too keen on me going, but they didn't put any impediments in my in my way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have other friends that applied or no?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.70410379264074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very honored to be accepted because I know it was that time was pretty competitive and even more competitive now I understand, but competitive and I feel, you know, you know, quite honored. In fact, some of the some of the literature at that time about people who had to face adverse situations in their life, but people that were picked for the Peace Corps were, you know, right at the top of the list. So I felt, whoa, hey, I'm part of that group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your friends and family? How did they react?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The family was not, not too keen on it. I'm an only child, so my parents were not too keen on me going, but they didn't put any impediments in my in my way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have other friends that applied or no?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was it. Actually, the fellow that I that I did the internship with at Chillicothe, Ohio, in the reformatory. He was also accepted for a project in Brazil and was going to, I think his training group was starting the same time as mine, but in a different location."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know before you left that it was going to be involved with prisons or did you find that out once you arrived?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.7823375473786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The family was not, not too keen on it. I'm an only child, so my parents were not too keen on me going, but they didn't put any impediments in my in my way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have other friends that applied or no?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was it. Actually, the fellow that I that I did the internship with at Chillicothe, Ohio, in the reformatory. He was also accepted for a project in Brazil and was going to, I think his training group was starting the same time as mine, but in a different location."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know before you left that it was going to be involved with prisons or did you find that out once you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What's involved with what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your work was going to be involved with prisons?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.758152830420666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was it. Actually, the fellow that I that I did the internship with at Chillicothe, Ohio, in the reformatory. He was also accepted for a project in Brazil and was going to, I think his training group was starting the same time as mine, but in a different location."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know before you left that it was going to be involved with prisons or did you find that out once you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What's involved with what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your work was going to be involved with prisons?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I trained in New York, in the jungles of New York City at NYU and it was a health project. So I was with a lot of nurses and as a male non-nurse, I was being, you know, as a sanatorium and we were scheduled to go to the northeast Brazil. And so I learned about latrines and, you know, health care and lots of diseases and first aid and, you know, those kinds of things. And so that was that was the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you elaborate a little more about the training, how did how did you receive it? Did you think you were being properly prepared?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.953503144911853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What's involved with what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your work was going to be involved with prisons?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I trained in New York, in the jungles of New York City at NYU and it was a health project. So I was with a lot of nurses and as a male non-nurse, I was being, you know, as a sanatorium and we were scheduled to go to the northeast Brazil. And so I learned about latrines and, you know, health care and lots of diseases and first aid and, you know, those kinds of things. And so that was that was the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you elaborate a little more about the training, how did how did you receive it? Did you think you were being properly prepared?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think so. You know, in terms of I had nothing really to, you know, to compare it to at that particular time. But you know, it was new information for me about, you know, tropical diseases. And I was really keen on helping people with latrines and maybe building some houses out of, you know, out of adobe and, you know, probably much more enthusiastic than knowledgeable. But I was ready to go. And I thought the instructors that we had, both the language instructors as well as the more technical instructors were, were very good, were really excellent I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In retrospect, do you feel there were any particular weaknesses?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.39278127212428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I trained in New York, in the jungles of New York City at NYU and it was a health project. So I was with a lot of nurses and as a male non-nurse, I was being, you know, as a sanatorium and we were scheduled to go to the northeast Brazil. And so I learned about latrines and, you know, health care and lots of diseases and first aid and, you know, those kinds of things. And so that was that was the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you elaborate a little more about the training, how did how did you receive it? Did you think you were being properly prepared?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think so. You know, in terms of I had nothing really to, you know, to compare it to at that particular time. But you know, it was new information for me about, you know, tropical diseases. And I was really keen on helping people with latrines and maybe building some houses out of, you know, out of adobe and, you know, probably much more enthusiastic than knowledgeable. But I was ready to go. And I thought the instructors that we had, both the language instructors as well as the more technical instructors were, were very good, were really excellent I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In retrospect, do you feel there were any particular weaknesses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't. I can't recall any. No, no. Now, you have to understand it didn't train me for what I eventually ended up doing, but the intentions were all there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a story I've heard before."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.10309030236031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think so. You know, in terms of I had nothing really to, you know, to compare it to at that particular time. But you know, it was new information for me about, you know, tropical diseases. And I was really keen on helping people with latrines and maybe building some houses out of, you know, out of adobe and, you know, probably much more enthusiastic than knowledgeable. But I was ready to go. And I thought the instructors that we had, both the language instructors as well as the more technical instructors were, were very good, were really excellent I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In retrospect, do you feel there were any particular weaknesses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't. I can't recall any. No, no. Now, you have to understand it didn't train me for what I eventually ended up doing, but the intentions were all there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a story I've heard before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your style of training was at the university, so you didn't have much interaction with actual Brazilians."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.003433669289233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't. I can't recall any. No, no. Now, you have to understand it didn't train me for what I eventually ended up doing, but the intentions were all there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a story I've heard before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your style of training was at the university, so you didn't have much interaction with actual Brazilians."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, instructors were mostly Brazilians, the language instructors. And we got tickets to see George Proyecto, so that's great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were any volunteers asked to leave during the training process?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.114926299210257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your style of training was at the university, so you didn't have much interaction with actual Brazilians."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, instructors were mostly Brazilians, the language instructors. And we got tickets to see George Proyecto, so that's great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were any volunteers asked to leave during the training process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we lost close to 50 percent. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many did you start with, do you remember?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 33.46102922134473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, instructors were mostly Brazilians, the language instructors. And we got tickets to see George Proyecto, so that's great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were any volunteers asked to leave during the training process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we lost close to 50 percent. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many did you start with, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't recall. But you know, most were lost at half time, halfway through. I know a couple of the women were there and they decided to go back with their boyfriends, you know, want to get married. So because I mean, the rumor was, those kinds of relationships didn't last over a two year period if you were separated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The next question would be, what was your initial entry into the country like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.623365801494145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we lost close to 50 percent. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many did you start with, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't recall. But you know, most were lost at half time, halfway through. I know a couple of the women were there and they decided to go back with their boyfriends, you know, want to get married. So because I mean, the rumor was, those kinds of relationships didn't last over a two year period if you were separated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The next question would be, what was your initial entry into the country like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some nice training in Rio de Janeiro. And that was really great to be in Rio. And we had some orientation, which I’m bit fuzzy on. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was basically a scheduled for about a week, I think, to just get us used to the country, get a feel for the country and kind of relax a little bit and feel welcome. And so that was really nice. Now the whole thing got changed, as I said before I was, but I was supposed to, scheduled to go to northeast Brazil. And while I was there, a fellow came by the name of Phil Lopez, who was directing the project in Brasilia, and had seen my bio and wondered if I wanted to go to this project in Brasilia, which was the first group in Brasilia. So I said, sure, sounds great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I take it this was a staff person."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.02596200166016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't recall. But you know, most were lost at half time, halfway through. I know a couple of the women were there and they decided to go back with their boyfriends, you know, want to get married. So because I mean, the rumor was, those kinds of relationships didn't last over a two year period if you were separated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The next question would be, what was your initial entry into the country like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some nice training in Rio de Janeiro. And that was really great to be in Rio. And we had some orientation, which I’m bit fuzzy on. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was basically a scheduled for about a week, I think, to just get us used to the country, get a feel for the country and kind of relax a little bit and feel welcome. And so that was really nice. Now the whole thing got changed, as I said before I was, but I was supposed to, scheduled to go to northeast Brazil. And while I was there, a fellow came by the name of Phil Lopez, who was directing the project in Brasilia, and had seen my bio and wondered if I wanted to go to this project in Brasilia, which was the first group in Brasilia. So I said, sure, sounds great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I take it this was a staff person."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Phil was the director. Yes, it was a staff person. Yeah. He's recruiting and recruited from a couple of different groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess he was the one that actually facilitated your moving into this position."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 37.806624446289064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some nice training in Rio de Janeiro. And that was really great to be in Rio. And we had some orientation, which I’m bit fuzzy on. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was basically a scheduled for about a week, I think, to just get us used to the country, get a feel for the country and kind of relax a little bit and feel welcome. And so that was really nice. Now the whole thing got changed, as I said before I was, but I was supposed to, scheduled to go to northeast Brazil. And while I was there, a fellow came by the name of Phil Lopez, who was directing the project in Brasilia, and had seen my bio and wondered if I wanted to go to this project in Brasilia, which was the first group in Brasilia. So I said, sure, sounds great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I take it this was a staff person."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Phil was the director. Yes, it was a staff person. Yeah. He's recruiting and recruited from a couple of different groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess he was the one that actually facilitated your moving into this position."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's correct. Yeah. Going to Brasilia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you elaborate now on what the specifics of your assignment were like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.429159589983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’d say there were about 10 cells, anywhere from 100 to 120 probably max males. And there were there were about four or five females there also that were in a different, different barracks, but then not far away. But they pretty much kept to themselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a seven day a week job. But did you have any leisure time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. I made sure I got together with some of my colleagues and I saw my friend got my friend in Planaltina and see him, or we could come in and we go to a movie. And I think, yeah, at one time I took a little road trip with him to see his family. His family lived down on a farm, in another, in another state. Spent a weekend out there with him and his family, which was really quite nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you were able to get some support from another volunteer. Was this typical of the group where you could reach out to other expertise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh yeah, I don't think I did. I mean, with the librarians, which was pretty, you know, pretty, pretty obvious. I don't think I needed to. I think the only other thing I needed from the other volunteers was just, sometimes you just kind of blow off steam, you know, let your hair down, you know? And just be with colleagues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How frequent was that? Was opportunities did you have?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 30.47684398887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. I made sure I got together with some of my colleagues and I saw my friend got my friend in Planaltina and see him, or we could come in and we go to a movie. And I think, yeah, at one time I took a little road trip with him to see his family. His family lived down on a farm, in another, in another state. Spent a weekend out there with him and his family, which was really quite nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you were able to get some support from another volunteer. Was this typical of the group where you could reach out to other expertise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh yeah, I don't think I did. I mean, with the librarians, which was pretty, you know, pretty, pretty obvious. I don't think I needed to. I think the only other thing I needed from the other volunteers was just, sometimes you just kind of blow off steam, you know, let your hair down, you know? And just be with colleagues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How frequent was that? Was opportunities did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it kind of depended on what's going on. I know our director would pull us in every maybe six months for like a weekend or something, and we could take great showers and fax. So, I mean, maybe every other week or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you elaborate a little more on your living arrangements?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 30.529826654300003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh yeah, I don't think I did. I mean, with the librarians, which was pretty, you know, pretty, pretty obvious. I don't think I needed to. I think the only other thing I needed from the other volunteers was just, sometimes you just kind of blow off steam, you know, let your hair down, you know? And just be with colleagues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How frequent was that? Was opportunities did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it kind of depended on what's going on. I know our director would pull us in every maybe six months for like a weekend or something, and we could take great showers and fax. So, I mean, maybe every other week or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you elaborate a little more on your living arrangements?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Living arrangements I think were pretty decent. I lived at the boys’ school and had running water and they had two cooks for the children. Limited menu, of course, rice and beans or beans and rice, which I still love actually. And these two cooks were just male and female. They were very dark there. Yeah, black. And when I left in Thanksgiving, for what they've done for me or, you know, I gave them some gifts and I had the ultimate compliment from them and I still remember this. They said, Norman, you may be white, but your heart is black. And I thought that I said that I almost came to tears on that one. I thought that was just a wonderful comment. Yeah, but I had to get there before. My hours were so weird at the prison. Sometimes the kids would get the meal before I would. But they’re being kids, so I survived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did, was this something that the service paid for, or was this part of your, coming out of your allowance? Payment for the food, payment for the?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not that. Yeah, that's it. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about with Peace Corps activities back here in the States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm not a groupie. You know, I went to some NORVA Northeast Ohio folks, and when I went, everybody was telling war stories and I didn’t want to hear that. And I guess it would have been OK when I'm just, if I was just out, I'd been out. Because I went because when I got out of Brazil, I went right into graduate school for two years and then I went to a reservation for two and a half years and then I came back to. When I came back, I got recruited to Cleveland to help start the Department of Psychiatry. I really didn't, you know, the only people I've kept contact with some Peace Corps volunteers that I was with in Brasilia and maintained those contacts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know if this is particularly a repeat of a previous question, but the last question in the guide is, what has been the effect of Peace Corps service on your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think it's something I could be very proud of, number one. And it's a legacy I think I passed on to my daughter, who's a 1Z energy consultant. Because she did that stint in the Dominican Republic and Mexico. And I think she's going to be helping people for many, many years in terms of energy. Well, it's something to be proud of, and, you know. It was a life, life growing experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any final comments you'd like to make?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think it's something I could be very proud of, number one. And it's a legacy I think I passed on to my daughter, who's a 1Z energy consultant. Because she did that stint in the Dominican Republic and Mexico. And I think she's going to be helping people for many, many years in terms of energy. Well, it's something to be proud of, and, you know. It was a life, life growing experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any final comments you'd like to make?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm just so happy that somebody is interested in the story, that's all. And if it's helps other people or, you know, provides entertainment or whatever, and that's great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If it makes the cutting room floor, I don't know. If it even makes the cutting room floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I appreciate you taking the time to meet with me."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00141:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm just so happy that somebody is interested in the story, that's all. And if it's helps other people or, you know, provides entertainment or whatever, and that's great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If it makes the cutting room floor, I don't know. If it even makes the cutting room floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I appreciate you taking the time to meet with me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I found it very interesting. Thank you."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00024:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.909947237757343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wow, that's a good question. I was a, I believe, a junior at Catholic University here in Washington, DC and studying Political Science. My mother at the time was working in the library at the University of Maryland at College Park. She saw a posting for a position here at the National Archives. She called me up and said, are you interested in this, and I was, so I followed up on that. Some months later, I was working at the National Archives. That position was in the Office of Presidential Libraries. And so I was there for a while before I moved on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you finish your degree at Catholic University while you were working here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And just stayed here for the rest of your life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I did have a little interval. I was, like I said, I think I started in '79 and graduated from Catholic University late in 1980. And then, I went to Boston and was in Boston for a year, I'd say a year and a half. And then, I came back to the Archives and back to the Office of Presidential Libraries. Then, sometime in 1983, I was working in Presidential Libraries when my supervisor, Doug Thurman, the late Doug Thurman, very good man, good friend, had talked to Dr. Jim O'Neill, who was the assistant archivist for Presidential Libraries at the time, and was Chairman of the National Archives Committee for the 50th Anniversary of the National Archives. There was a big exhibition planned, and they needed a registrar, or someone to collect the and care for the items to be in that exhibition. Doug mentioned me as a possibility, and I got drafted into working on that exhibit. Kind of opened my eyes to the world of exhibitions and the opportunity to work with a lot of people throughout the agency. And so I was essentially on loan for that year, and then transferred over to exhibitions, permanently, sometime in 1985."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've been a registrar since then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00024:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 33.23327470861927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And just stayed here for the rest of your life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I did have a little interval. I was, like I said, I think I started in '79 and graduated from Catholic University late in 1980. And then, I went to Boston and was in Boston for a year, I'd say a year and a half. And then, I came back to the Archives and back to the Office of Presidential Libraries. Then, sometime in 1983, I was working in Presidential Libraries when my supervisor, Doug Thurman, the late Doug Thurman, very good man, good friend, had talked to Dr. Jim O'Neill, who was the assistant archivist for Presidential Libraries at the time, and was Chairman of the National Archives Committee for the 50th Anniversary of the National Archives. There was a big exhibition planned, and they needed a registrar, or someone to collect the and care for the items to be in that exhibition. Doug mentioned me as a possibility, and I got drafted into working on that exhibit. Kind of opened my eyes to the world of exhibitions and the opportunity to work with a lot of people throughout the agency. And so I was essentially on loan for that year, and then transferred over to exhibitions, permanently, sometime in 1985."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've been a registrar since then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been registrar ever since. I started out probably when I transferred, I was probably a GS-5 or 6, but I remained a registrar all that time, but the position has kind of grown in scope and responsibility since then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What aspects of the work do you enjoy?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00024:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 39.51066489522533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I eluded to just there—it's—of course, there is a direct access to the archive's records and artifacts and artwork, and being able to just be up close to them. With an interest in history and knowing all the stories that are associated with them, that could be very special. But it's also the opportunity to work with other individuals here at the National Archives, in the Presidential Libraries, in the Field Offices. As registrar, the other major responsibility I have is for loans from the National Archives to other museums, and so I'm able to work with other institutions and staff, individuals in other museums. So it's both that access, that up-close access, and the opportunity with a great variety of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's a typical day in your unit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For myself, or for the unit?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There isn't one. That's another thing that I think makes my job challenging and interesting is yes, there is a fair amount of routine activity having to do with processing archival and museum materials for exhibition or for loan for exhibition, but it's also the things that come out of the blue; questions, the contact for another loan, a new loan to go. Maybe sometimes it's Japan, maybe it's Presidential Library. But it's usually something—there's always something new. And that's why I get up in the morning and come here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What interesting discoveries have you made through your work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00024:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.075775872962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, I would say the most important thing is having an understanding of the American Political system, the form of the United States Government, and how all that works, and how that is translated in the records themselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your impressions of the agency when you started working here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll go back a little bit further."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father was a Professor of European History, taught at Catholic University. He actually went to Catholic University himself, back in the 1930s. And then, was invited by Catholic University to come teach in 1959. I was born in '58, and he was then teaching at the University of Massachusetts in Amherst. In 1959, he accepted the position at Catholic University and the whole family moved down here. But growing up, first in D.C., and then in the Maryland suburbs, my parents would bring us downtown to see the monuments and the museums. And I don't have a precise memory of the first time I came to the archives, what I have a memory of is driving down Constitution Avenue, probably in the backseat of my parents' car, and looking up at those awesome neo-classical buildings on Constitution Avenue, of course, including the National Archives. I thought to myself then, and I was just a youngster, that it would be really cool to work there someday. So—and I'm sorry, refresh me again what the original question was?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your impression of the agency when you began your career?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00024:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.861973192180002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll go back a little bit further."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father was a Professor of European History, taught at Catholic University. He actually went to Catholic University himself, back in the 1930s. And then, was invited by Catholic University to come teach in 1959. I was born in '58, and he was then teaching at the University of Massachusetts in Amherst. In 1959, he accepted the position at Catholic University and the whole family moved down here. But growing up, first in D.C., and then in the Maryland suburbs, my parents would bring us downtown to see the monuments and the museums. And I don't have a precise memory of the first time I came to the archives, what I have a memory of is driving down Constitution Avenue, probably in the backseat of my parents' car, and looking up at those awesome neo-classical buildings on Constitution Avenue, of course, including the National Archives. I thought to myself then, and I was just a youngster, that it would be really cool to work there someday. So—and I'm sorry, refresh me again what the original question was?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your impression of the agency when you began your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I started? Okay. Well, okay. So as a young child, I thought it was a pretty cool place to begin with. And so when I got the phone call from my mother, I was eager to apply. I knew, obviously, that the Declaration and the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were there, but I didn't have a very deep understanding of what else was there at the National Archives, or what people did at the National Archives. And that's, really, something I've come to, you know, just learn over the years. But I knew that it was impressive looking, basically, and that it would be a good place to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say was the most significant turning point in your career?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00024:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.862882000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry, go back. Is it change of Presidents, change of administration?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that wasn't an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would describe the intellectual and institutional value of the records with which you work? You don't have to answer that if you can't."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00024:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.1809800000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry, go back. Is it change of Presidents, change of administration?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that wasn't an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would describe the intellectual and institutional value of the records with which you work? You don't have to answer that if you can't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's a hard question. I mean, that's one of the wonderful things that we in exhibitions are able to do, is we're able to explore the great breadth of the National Archives. But at the same time, we're not—the individuals in the exhibitions office are not experts on any particular area, generally speaking. We're often dependent on the expertise of individual archivists, who work with a limited amount of records, that are limited, but they can still be very voluminous. Like modern military records, we're talking about tens of thousands of boxes and maybe more than that, so we're dependent on those archivists who've worked with those records over a long period of time, and developed an expertise, and we're very, very dependent on them. But, I mean, personally, I'm very interested in the American Revolution and the early Republic, and have, as I mentioned earlier, the early State Department Records piqued my interest even more, and so personally, that's the body of records that I'm most interested in. I would say they are the core of our government and American Democracy. The Journals of the Continental Congress, the Voting Record of the Constitutional Convention. You know, we debate a lot about what the founders intended, well, we can always go back to the record and see what they actually had to say. Sometimes they're contradictory, so history is sometimes messy. But what we have are the records, so we always have to go back to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel you've made a significant contribution to the National Archives? And if so, what do you think that was?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00024:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All my time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm-hm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, over the last..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like I'm a very lucky person, and I've had one of the best jobs in Washington for all that time. That amazes me every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything you would like to add to the interview? Anecdotes, stories, words of wisdom, et cetera?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00024:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, over the last..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like I'm a very lucky person, and I've had one of the best jobs in Washington for all that time. That amazes me every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything you would like to add to the interview? Anecdotes, stories, words of wisdom, et cetera?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say anyone who's—I'll go back to before coming to the archives and being a high school student, and trying to decide what I was going to do. You know, my dad taught European History and I was interested in history, and my mother was a librarian, so, you know, coming here would've seemed very natural. But I remember that my mother did not think pursuing a career in history would be very valuable. Or maybe that's not the right word, but so when I applied to Catholic University, I didn't apply for the History program, and I didn't apply for a Political Science program. I applied for Computer Science. But I had realized within that first year that that's not really what I wanted to be doing. I had relatively good math skills, but I wasn't passionate about it and I was much more interested in Politics than History. And so I put myself on that track, and then I was just lucky enough to get that phone call, my mother seeing that posting. So what I would say is, when someone tells you that your English Degree is not going to help you, or that you really need to go one way or another way, take that with a grain of salt and give yourself the opportunity to take another path."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else?"}]}