diff --git "a/yield-experimental/dev/dev-001.jsonl" "b/yield-experimental/dev/dev-001.jsonl"
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+++ "b/yield-experimental/dev/dev-001.jsonl"
@@ -0,0 +1,2451 @@
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.933516171551112, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s been used widely. People could request it. They did, actually, a whole series. Our was the Toys in Space I, and I think they did several others, but I think that’s in the NASA educational armamentarium that schools could request. I think they did a narrated version and had a study guide that went with it, just one of those fun things that NASA did for education and continues to do for education that connect kids to space.\\n\\n Our flight ended up being very complex in many different ways, and we had a lot of things going on, and so the toys was kind of a respite from the stressful stuff. It was just the playing-around stuff, and we had a lot of fun doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the complexity of the time period, and I don’t know if you recall this moment, but I was reading through an article that talked about how Dave [David C.] Hilmers, the CapCom [Capsule Communicator], congratulated you on your sewing ability. Apparently Sally [K.] Ride was there, and she jumped in and said, “Well, she didn’t get that sewing ability as a homemaker; she got those skills as a surgeon.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the quote, or at least what I heard, because I obviously wasn’t there, Dave said something about, “You’re a good seamstress,” and Sally said, “No, she’s a good surgeon,” something along those lines, which I appreciated very much, but I would have taken the kudos as a seamstress, too, because I’ve done that in my lifetime. But that was very nicely put by Dr. Ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious what you had thought of it at the time. I thought it was very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t hear about it till I got back. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were too busy making the flyswatter."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 34.37057352394568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the quote, or at least what I heard, because I obviously wasn’t there, Dave said something about, “You’re a good seamstress,” and Sally said, “No, she’s a good surgeon,” something along those lines, which I appreciated very much, but I would have taken the kudos as a seamstress, too, because I’ve done that in my lifetime. But that was very nicely put by Dr. Ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious what you had thought of it at the time. I thought it was very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t hear about it till I got back. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were too busy making the flyswatter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I told her I appreciated it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought I’d ask you about the Astronaut Science Support Group that you formed with Jeff Hoffman and Bonnie [J.] Dunbar and Jerry [L.] Ross, some of those folks after Challenger [STS-51L]."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 44.966136592060174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I’m sure I have guilt feelings about the times when I didn’t have enough time to spend with my kids and I didn’t get to see some of things they were doing, or I wish I’d been there for some of those things, but it turned out just fine and they don’t remember those things anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do want to ask you about the role you played in the NASA Aerospace Medical Advisory Committee. Can you tell us about that group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you have dug deep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Try to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was assigned at one point to the Aerospace Advisory Committee. I wasn’t quite sure what my role was, but I felt like it was like being part of the Science Support Group. You bring a different perspective, and you understand what the issues are within NASA about flights.\\n\\n Advisory committees, I have learned, frequently are only told about things that someone wants them to know about, and while I felt that I was useful in many ways, I got a little frustrated by having sometimes a different perspective on what the burning issues were. I felt like an outside advisory committee could do a good job of discussing issues and providing some input as to what was the right thing to do scientifically, but frequently those were not the issues that were presented to them. That was a little frustrating to me, and eventually I got busy and I didn’t feel like I was making the right kinds of input or being very useful, and so I didn’t continue with it. It was an eye-opener for me, and it reminded me that later on when I was on different kinds of advisory committees, that probably whoever was briefing us sometimes had an agenda or sometimes only brought up the things that they wanted the advisory committee to talk about. I think there’re sometimes a limited role for advisory committees, or it’s sometimes the responsibility of an advisory committee to dig a little deeper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give an example or two?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 59.39054502676448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I recall, we were looking at life sciences overall, so it included the animals. I don’t remember whether we did plant stuff or not. I was particularly focused on the human part, but I think they had other groups that were more focused on the other parts of life sciences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a chance to work with people over at Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California] and some of the other Centers that were represented?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably a good thing for your other flights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, definitely. Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about that first Spacelab Life Sciences flight. The Roundup says you were selected in ’84, and you didn’t end up flying until ’91."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 21, "return_to_go": 65.98949447418275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably a good thing for your other flights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, definitely. Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about that first Spacelab Life Sciences flight. The Roundup says you were selected in ’84, and you didn’t end up flying until ’91."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us about working on that flight, essentially for seven years. I’m guessing in between you were working on other things as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.43093625357544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Metabolic experiments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that you had contact with her, obviously, but had you worked with her on experiments before, or was this the first time you had worked with her in this sense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to remember. I think that was probably the first time that I had worked with her as an investigator. I mostly knew her as the director of the medical lab, and so our dealings were with that and more on a personal level. She was our den mother. But I think this was the first time that I had worked with her as one of the investigators."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was she studying, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think she was doing part of the metabolic experiments, and I’m trying to remember, probably had to do with fluid balance, but I’m not exactly sure. They were looking at a number of the components of the blood, the hormones that regulated fluid balance. Again, faces got puffy, legs got skinny, fluid was redistributed. They felt like probably people got rid of some of that fluid the first few days of flight, but they had not quantified it. They didn’t know what your salt balance was doing; they didn’t know what hormones were involved in that, kidney hormones, pituitary hormones. I think that was what she was interested in. Again, the people doing the metabolic experiments had to coordinate, because certain of the tracers for one experiment would not be good for another experiment, or you couldn’t do the metabolic experiments right after you had done the lung functions because the gases would change. So it was this big coordination thing, but I know she was involved with the metabolic on both of my SLS flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had watched your post-flight video that you had all put together for this mission, and someone had referred to the Spacelab area as the slave quarters. I know you had mentioned that it was a pretty hectic flight. Was that something that you recall, that it was just so hectic, you kind of felt like you were stuck back in that lab?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.38034976827954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There were probably people that objected to our taking the rats in space, so we had to be sensitive to how a lot of other people thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned, I think it was on STS-51B, they did have the problems with the animal enclosures."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you at all concerned, or you had spent enough time with the folks at Ames and were convinced that the enclosures would work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, the animal cages, like a lot of things that we do in space, there’s just no way to simulate all of that on the ground. You can take things up in the zero-G plane and get part of it, maybe, but, yes, we were concerned about the cages, and we knew that if they didn’t function well on this flight, that animals were not going to fly again. We knew that the problem had to be solved. But we had followed with great interest over this long period of time what they were doing to the cages. Early on there were people that said, “We’re not going to spend this amount of money. We’re not going to fly animals.” And we knew that a lot was resting on whether the cages did well, so we had a significant interest in the design. We looked at it, we looked at how it could go wrong and what we could do about it.\\n\\n We had some procedures if any of the animals got in trouble. That’s why we had the sock that we could pull the cage out into when we decided to take it over to the workbench. So we had some plans. All we could do was hope that all of the fixes that they had made were what was needed and that the animals would be safe and well fed and well watered, that there wasn’t going to be any waste floating around. I think we probably would have been very careful if anything had escaped from those cages, to make sure that it didn’t float up to the flight deck and bother the commander, as it had on STS-51B. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t sound very pleasant."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 17.0892775203106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you at all concerned, or you had spent enough time with the folks at Ames and were convinced that the enclosures would work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, the animal cages, like a lot of things that we do in space, there’s just no way to simulate all of that on the ground. You can take things up in the zero-G plane and get part of it, maybe, but, yes, we were concerned about the cages, and we knew that if they didn’t function well on this flight, that animals were not going to fly again. We knew that the problem had to be solved. But we had followed with great interest over this long period of time what they were doing to the cages. Early on there were people that said, “We’re not going to spend this amount of money. We’re not going to fly animals.” And we knew that a lot was resting on whether the cages did well, so we had a significant interest in the design. We looked at it, we looked at how it could go wrong and what we could do about it.\\n\\n We had some procedures if any of the animals got in trouble. That’s why we had the sock that we could pull the cage out into when we decided to take it over to the workbench. So we had some plans. All we could do was hope that all of the fixes that they had made were what was needed and that the animals would be safe and well fed and well watered, that there wasn’t going to be any waste floating around. I think we probably would have been very careful if anything had escaped from those cages, to make sure that it didn’t float up to the flight deck and bother the commander, as it had on STS-51B. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t sound very pleasant."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Marines don’t like animal poop. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a good quote. We’ll quote you on that. [Laughter]\\n\\n Tell us about some of the training that you participated in. I’m assuming you went to Ames and to Marshall. Where else did you train?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.30373040742356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember specific things, but, yes, I talked to everybody that I could talk to about how did this work and how did that work and how did you manage this. But the Skylab flights had a lot more time. We had nine days. If you’re going to do three data takes during the flight on each of the experiments, on each of the people, it’s so tightly interwoven if you lose a data point on day one, you can’t exactly make it up on day three because the next data point’s on day four. So they wanted a smooth timeline, so it was a little bit different. But certainly talking to them about how they did certain things and how blood draws worked and whether they had any surprises about this, that, and the other. The experiments were very different and the equipment was very different, so it was helpful to chat with them. But I think ours was a couple orders of magnitude greater in complexity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had read in a newspaper article that sometimes it took two or three people to do blood draws on this flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain why that was the case?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can see the problem on our post-flight science video. We did one for a post-flight press conference, and then we put together a twenty-three-minute science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I saw the first one, just the post-flight video."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.448589341581732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain why that was the case?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can see the problem on our post-flight science video. We did one for a post-flight press conference, and then we put together a twenty-three-minute science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I saw the first one, just the post-flight video."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s a video sequence of a blood draw going on, and what you’ve got is my arm and you’ve got Jim Bagian putting the tubes on the catheter and collecting the blood and doing all that kind of stuff. Then he’s handing off things to Millie, who’s over here putting the right labels on and putting them in the right order in the trays. Some of them had to be centrifuged. Some of them didn’t have to be centrifuged; they had to be refrigerated right away. Some were for this. Some were for that.\\n\\n It wasn’t like you just drew a tube of blood and put in the refrigerator. It was, you have to do a finger stick and get a hematocrit. You have to draw blood for this and spin it and separate the serum from the blood. You have to put this one in the refrigerator right away. It was like you collect six or seven things for each draw, and then you’ve got four people, so you’ve got lots of different moving parts. So, yes, it would take three people to do a blood draw: the subject and two operators, one person to really be the operator, and one person to keep track of what you’d drawn, what’s the next tube that you’re going to hand them, what’s the label that goes on this tube and what do I do with it. So, yes, nothing was easy in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When I read that, I thought, wow, that’s really complicated."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.720654823979702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can see the problem on our post-flight science video. We did one for a post-flight press conference, and then we put together a twenty-three-minute science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I saw the first one, just the post-flight video."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s a video sequence of a blood draw going on, and what you’ve got is my arm and you’ve got Jim Bagian putting the tubes on the catheter and collecting the blood and doing all that kind of stuff. Then he’s handing off things to Millie, who’s over here putting the right labels on and putting them in the right order in the trays. Some of them had to be centrifuged. Some of them didn’t have to be centrifuged; they had to be refrigerated right away. Some were for this. Some were for that.\\n\\n It wasn’t like you just drew a tube of blood and put in the refrigerator. It was, you have to do a finger stick and get a hematocrit. You have to draw blood for this and spin it and separate the serum from the blood. You have to put this one in the refrigerator right away. It was like you collect six or seven things for each draw, and then you’ve got four people, so you’ve got lots of different moving parts. So, yes, it would take three people to do a blood draw: the subject and two operators, one person to really be the operator, and one person to keep track of what you’d drawn, what’s the next tube that you’re going to hand them, what’s the label that goes on this tube and what do I do with it. So, yes, nothing was easy in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When I read that, I thought, wow, that’s really complicated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if you’re not careful, the tube goes floating off and you can’t find it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that happen?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.704512128370002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if you’re not careful, the tube goes floating off and you can’t find it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Frequently you’d say, “Okay, we’ve got to collect three purple-top and three red-top tubes and one of something else. Do a hematocrit. I have to do three hematocrit tubes.” So sometimes you would label them ahead of time, and then if you knew you were supposed to have three and you’ve only got two tubes, you’d think, “Where’s the other tube?’” So it was very interesting.\\n\\n Again, I learned from that flight. When I came back and the scientists said, “Oh, you need to do it this way,” and I could say, “No, you’ve got to have more than one person helping, and you just have to timeline that in. Sorry.” Or, “It really helps if you’ll label our tubes ahead of time and put them in certain places and know where they are. Practice doing it that way.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was the first flight to fly three women at one time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about that and the gender balance of your crew?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.338346809300003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Frequently you’d say, “Okay, we’ve got to collect three purple-top and three red-top tubes and one of something else. Do a hematocrit. I have to do three hematocrit tubes.” So sometimes you would label them ahead of time, and then if you knew you were supposed to have three and you’ve only got two tubes, you’d think, “Where’s the other tube?’” So it was very interesting.\\n\\n Again, I learned from that flight. When I came back and the scientists said, “Oh, you need to do it this way,” and I could say, “No, you’ve got to have more than one person helping, and you just have to timeline that in. Sorry.” Or, “It really helps if you’ll label our tubes ahead of time and put them in certain places and know where they are. Practice doing it that way.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was the first flight to fly three women at one time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about that and the gender balance of your crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can remember they asked Bryan O’Connor, “Are you afraid of having three women on the flight?”\\n\\n And he said, “No, I’m more worried about having three doctors on the flight.”\\n\\n It was nice to have the three of us. I can’t say that we developed a strong group. We weren’t the girls and didn’t do girls’ night out, but it was just kind of nice to not be all men, which is what I’d had on my first flight. I think we had a good relationship and laughed about things and laughed about men, but we were all very serious about doing what we needed to do and could support one another in that. If one person was going through a really rough time, you knew that you had a good support structure out there for you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bryan had also mentioned that you were one of the first crews to go through leadership and communications training."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.153718677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about that and the gender balance of your crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can remember they asked Bryan O’Connor, “Are you afraid of having three women on the flight?”\\n\\n And he said, “No, I’m more worried about having three doctors on the flight.”\\n\\n It was nice to have the three of us. I can’t say that we developed a strong group. We weren’t the girls and didn’t do girls’ night out, but it was just kind of nice to not be all men, which is what I’d had on my first flight. I think we had a good relationship and laughed about things and laughed about men, but we were all very serious about doing what we needed to do and could support one another in that. If one person was going through a really rough time, you knew that you had a good support structure out there for you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bryan had also mentioned that you were one of the first crews to go through leadership and communications training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that and what benefit that had on the flight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00524:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will you talk about that? And you had previously won it yourself in 1986."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had I?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "According to the research we have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think there was recognition that at least for the world of life sciences and aviation and space medicine, that this was an important flight, and it was nice to get the recognition that we had contributed to it.\\n\\n It’s strange when you do experiments in flight. It’s somebody else’s research, and you don’t get your name on the published papers. So you are subject two in that data. Here it all is, all of this work that you did and all of this suffering that you went through, and your name’s not on the paper. You are a subject number. It’s absolutely important that you are de-identified. In other words, they didn’t say, “This is Rhea’s data.” People needed to know that if they looked really strange physiologically, that it wasn’t going to impact anything or that people weren’t going to worry about being assigned to another flight or something.\\n\\n Some of the investigators were very nice. They put at the end, “Special thanks go to these people who were both subjects and operators. We really appreciate their help.” That was nice. But it was nice to get an award or two from eminent scientists and others that said, “We appreciated what you did, and what you did really was important to what we are interested in.” You got different kinds of awards for different things, but I think they were very much appreciated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things that I saw, looking through the research that we pulled, was that you had given some testimony after this flight. One of the committees that I thought was interesting was the Committee on Budget. You had testified in front of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology. But that one just struck a chord with me. I thought that that was rather unusual for an astronaut. Is that the case?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.95660468741326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. We're going to start with the questions. And this like I said, this should be between us. And there's 13 questions that we use as a guideline. So some of them might be a little bit redundant, but we're ready to go, okay? So I would, if you could start with describing your present situation, your family, work, where you live, interests. We'll get to the Peace Corps stuff after that, okay? So what would you like to tell us about your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am, I live in Hutto, Texas, and I'm married to Dennis Slocum now for 30 years. We have one daughter who's 28, and I have just recently retired. I worked for 43 years as a registered nurse in various different capacities. And my interests, such as hobbies, would be my, my primary interest is piano. I also play the organ. I was an organist for a little over 20 years for a church, played the pipe organ. I'd love to get better at the violin. I read a lot. Cook. Would love to start traveling again. Was interested, I was on the Historic Preservation Commission for over four years in the town that I was in. And, um, that kind of sums it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Think back to the year before you joined the Peace Corps. That would be 1977. And what can you remember about your life then? You know, then they give other examples too about if you want to talk a little bit about your childhood, education. But, um, what were you doing the year before Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The year before I was in the Peace Corps, I lived in Austin, Texas, and I was a nurse at that time working on a surgical floor. And I had been thinking about doing this ever since I was very young so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like how young?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.507338541570288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am, I live in Hutto, Texas, and I'm married to Dennis Slocum now for 30 years. We have one daughter who's 28, and I have just recently retired. I worked for 43 years as a registered nurse in various different capacities. And my interests, such as hobbies, would be my, my primary interest is piano. I also play the organ. I was an organist for a little over 20 years for a church, played the pipe organ. I'd love to get better at the violin. I read a lot. Cook. Would love to start traveling again. Was interested, I was on the Historic Preservation Commission for over four years in the town that I was in. And, um, that kind of sums it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Think back to the year before you joined the Peace Corps. That would be 1977. And what can you remember about your life then? You know, then they give other examples too about if you want to talk a little bit about your childhood, education. But, um, what were you doing the year before Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The year before I was in the Peace Corps, I lived in Austin, Texas, and I was a nurse at that time working on a surgical floor. And I had been thinking about doing this ever since I was very young so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like how young?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember when Kennedy was president and the Peace Corps was formed and seeing the advertisements for it on TV. I just said, I have to do that someday or something similar to it. So it was something I had longed to do for a long time, for many reasons. And so I felt that that was the right time to make a move. I had a cousin who was dying of cancer, so I quit my job and went to South Texas and helped take care of him for about three months. So it was a good time to do that because I had signed up for the Peace Corps and I had that break time before I was going to leave in June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Okay. What do you want to tell us anything about your education?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.897042823966986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The year before I was in the Peace Corps, I lived in Austin, Texas, and I was a nurse at that time working on a surgical floor. And I had been thinking about doing this ever since I was very young so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like how young?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember when Kennedy was president and the Peace Corps was formed and seeing the advertisements for it on TV. I just said, I have to do that someday or something similar to it. So it was something I had longed to do for a long time, for many reasons. And so I felt that that was the right time to make a move. I had a cousin who was dying of cancer, so I quit my job and went to South Texas and helped take care of him for about three months. So it was a good time to do that because I had signed up for the Peace Corps and I had that break time before I was going to leave in June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Okay. What do you want to tell us anything about your education?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the University of Texas at Austin and did my pre reqs there. I was actually going to go to their nursing program, but my family doctor talked me into going to a diploma school program that was a very good program in town at the time. So I went for a year and a half to do my pre reqs there and then I went to a diploma school in Austin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the name was?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.218936471074429, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember when Kennedy was president and the Peace Corps was formed and seeing the advertisements for it on TV. I just said, I have to do that someday or something similar to it. So it was something I had longed to do for a long time, for many reasons. And so I felt that that was the right time to make a move. I had a cousin who was dying of cancer, so I quit my job and went to South Texas and helped take care of him for about three months. So it was a good time to do that because I had signed up for the Peace Corps and I had that break time before I was going to leave in June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Okay. What do you want to tell us anything about your education?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the University of Texas at Austin and did my pre reqs there. I was actually going to go to their nursing program, but my family doctor talked me into going to a diploma school program that was a very good program in town at the time. So I went for a year and a half to do my pre reqs there and then I went to a diploma school in Austin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the name was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Brackenridge School of Nursing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you spell that for us?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.576596078971588, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the University of Texas at Austin and did my pre reqs there. I was actually going to go to their nursing program, but my family doctor talked me into going to a diploma school program that was a very good program in town at the time. So I went for a year and a half to do my pre reqs there and then I went to a diploma school in Austin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the name was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Brackenridge School of Nursing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you spell that for us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "B-R-A-C-K-E-N-R-I-D-G-E."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Was it two years? Three years?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9739956433017642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Brackenridge School of Nursing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you spell that for us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "B-R-A-C-K-E-N-R-I-D-G-E."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Was it two years? Three years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three years. Okay. What year did you graduate in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.304439603668627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "B-R-A-C-K-E-N-R-I-D-G-E."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Was it two years? Three years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three years. Okay. What year did you graduate in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In '74."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "'74 from Brackenridge. Okay. Any other experiences you might want to share about why you became a Peace Corps volunteer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5604884485206965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three years. Okay. What year did you graduate in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In '74."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "'74 from Brackenridge. Okay. Any other experiences you might want to share about why you became a Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, for one thing, being a nurse, I just wanted to see in other countries, undeveloped countries, underdeveloped countries rather, um, how medicine operated, just how different it might be somewhere else. And I just, it sounded like a decent thing to do also. And I was brought up in the church and of course, we had visitors at times that were missionaries. And so that had an influence on me too, just seeing what they had done. And I mean, there's this big world out there, and that was one way to see it. Plus, I had traveled some and I thought, you know, you go on a trip for 1 to 2 weeks and it's just too fast and it's too artificial. You really need to live there. So I said, if I would go live somewhere else, why don't I do this? Because I always wanted to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Like I said, the second question is, why did you join the Peace Corps? You sort of touched on that. Was there anything else you might want to add about why you joined the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.844987165022996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In '74."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "'74 from Brackenridge. Okay. Any other experiences you might want to share about why you became a Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, for one thing, being a nurse, I just wanted to see in other countries, undeveloped countries, underdeveloped countries rather, um, how medicine operated, just how different it might be somewhere else. And I just, it sounded like a decent thing to do also. And I was brought up in the church and of course, we had visitors at times that were missionaries. And so that had an influence on me too, just seeing what they had done. And I mean, there's this big world out there, and that was one way to see it. Plus, I had traveled some and I thought, you know, you go on a trip for 1 to 2 weeks and it's just too fast and it's too artificial. You really need to live there. So I said, if I would go live somewhere else, why don't I do this? Because I always wanted to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Like I said, the second question is, why did you join the Peace Corps? You sort of touched on that. Was there anything else you might want to add about why you joined the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I, yeah, I think I probably answered that question. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We'll go to the third question. How did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.161096850025551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, for one thing, being a nurse, I just wanted to see in other countries, undeveloped countries, underdeveloped countries rather, um, how medicine operated, just how different it might be somewhere else. And I just, it sounded like a decent thing to do also. And I was brought up in the church and of course, we had visitors at times that were missionaries. And so that had an influence on me too, just seeing what they had done. And I mean, there's this big world out there, and that was one way to see it. Plus, I had traveled some and I thought, you know, you go on a trip for 1 to 2 weeks and it's just too fast and it's too artificial. You really need to live there. So I said, if I would go live somewhere else, why don't I do this? Because I always wanted to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Like I said, the second question is, why did you join the Peace Corps? You sort of touched on that. Was there anything else you might want to add about why you joined the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I, yeah, I think I probably answered that question. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We'll go to the third question. How did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was a kid. TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "TV. Okay. And what made you decide to apply? Anything else you might want to add to that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5123298333617234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I, yeah, I think I probably answered that question. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We'll go to the third question. How did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was a kid. TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "TV. Okay. And what made you decide to apply? Anything else you might want to add to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, I knew that when you're young and you're unencumbered and you're not married and you don't have children and bills, you have to do these things. You have to make that decision to do it. And, uh, I just felt like it would be a great adventure on top of everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How did you apply? Meaning like, did you have to go somewhere to interview?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.902588703735248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was a kid. TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "TV. Okay. And what made you decide to apply? Anything else you might want to add to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, I knew that when you're young and you're unencumbered and you're not married and you don't have children and bills, you have to do these things. You have to make that decision to do it. And, uh, I just felt like it would be a great adventure on top of everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How did you apply? Meaning like, did you have to go somewhere to interview?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was an office in Austin, so I applied at the office and was interviewed there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How long did it take you to be accepted?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.002876337483609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, I knew that when you're young and you're unencumbered and you're not married and you don't have children and bills, you have to do these things. You have to make that decision to do it. And, uh, I just felt like it would be a great adventure on top of everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How did you apply? Meaning like, did you have to go somewhere to interview?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was an office in Austin, so I applied at the office and was interviewed there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How long did it take you to be accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. It was, it was quick. I remember it was pretty quick because there were three groups that were going to be leaving just months after I decided to do it. I really wanted to go to Africa. That was my first choice, but there were no groups being formed for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The other part of the question, did you have a specific country? And you just said Africa."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1143070416484544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was an office in Austin, so I applied at the office and was interviewed there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How long did it take you to be accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. It was, it was quick. I remember it was pretty quick because there were three groups that were going to be leaving just months after I decided to do it. I really wanted to go to Africa. That was my first choice, but there were no groups being formed for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The other part of the question, did you have a specific country? And you just said Africa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just the continent of Africa. Probably just whatever would have been available and the. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a specific project? I mean, you wanted to be a nurse, I'm assuming."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2381189351649493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. It was, it was quick. I remember it was pretty quick because there were three groups that were going to be leaving just months after I decided to do it. I really wanted to go to Africa. That was my first choice, but there were no groups being formed for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The other part of the question, did you have a specific country? And you just said Africa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just the continent of Africa. Probably just whatever would have been available and the. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a specific project? I mean, you wanted to be a nurse, I'm assuming."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to work in community health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, community health. Yes. Okay. Good. The fourth question, what were your friends and your family's reactions when you were accepted?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3756877057388326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just the continent of Africa. Probably just whatever would have been available and the. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a specific project? I mean, you wanted to be a nurse, I'm assuming."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to work in community health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, community health. Yes. Okay. Good. The fourth question, what were your friends and your family's reactions when you were accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The truth?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, I told the truth in mine. And then you can add along that, you know, was there any hesitation or reservation on your part, your family and friends' part? How do they react when you were accepted?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6983798836281883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The truth?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, I told the truth in mine. And then you can add along that, you know, was there any hesitation or reservation on your part, your family and friends' part? How do they react when you were accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, some of my friends thought I was odd to want to do that. My father didn't understand why I wanted to volunteer two years of my life and not get paid really for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He thought that was not a good choice of, um, of a way to spend your, your time. And what was the rest of the question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, your, you talked about your. How about your mom? How did she react?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0967652884298618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He thought that was not a good choice of, um, of a way to spend your, your time. And what was the rest of the question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, your, you talked about your. How about your mom? How did she react?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was pretty noncommittal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your brother and sisters?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.329739209366513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was pretty noncommittal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your brother and sisters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They thought it was cool. They were little kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How about your friends? How did they react?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5885991215183477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your brother and sisters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They thought it was cool. They were little kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How about your friends? How did they react?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of my friends thought it was a great thing, especially my nurse friends, and other friends didn't understand. They, you know, they didn't understand. They thought there were, you know, safety issues, health issues. There were risks involved with it. And then some thought that it was just, you know, could be just a great adventure. So was it mixed, a lot of mixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you remember any particular remark, you know, that pro or con, that has stuck with you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1958013845905526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of my friends thought it was a great thing, especially my nurse friends, and other friends didn't understand. They, you know, they didn't understand. They thought there were, you know, safety issues, health issues. There were risks involved with it. And then some thought that it was just, you know, could be just a great adventure. So was it mixed, a lot of mixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you remember any particular remark, you know, that pro or con, that has stuck with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father's, that I wouldn't get paid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That it was just not a sound decision in that respect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We'll move on to the fifth question. What project were you invited to join? Oh, and, you know, I'm sort of interrupting because I kind of remember you went to Choluteca first. Okay. So we'll start with, Donna, am I correct, you had two different sites?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.550890427322836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father's, that I wouldn't get paid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That it was just not a sound decision in that respect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We'll move on to the fifth question. What project were you invited to join? Oh, and, you know, I'm sort of interrupting because I kind of remember you went to Choluteca first. Okay. So we'll start with, Donna, am I correct, you had two different sites?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I only lived in one site, but I was offered two sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about the first site you were offered, which you have told me in the past was Choluteca."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9454338081364844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That it was just not a sound decision in that respect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We'll move on to the fifth question. What project were you invited to join? Oh, and, you know, I'm sort of interrupting because I kind of remember you went to Choluteca first. Okay. So we'll start with, Donna, am I correct, you had two different sites?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I only lived in one site, but I was offered two sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about the first site you were offered, which you have told me in the past was Choluteca."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't remember the name, but now that you reminded me. Yeah, I believe that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it was. Okay. What were you supposed to do when you went there? Well, not that it happened, but."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6363380347364003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't remember the name, but now that you reminded me. Yeah, I believe that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it was. Okay. What were you supposed to do when you went there? Well, not that it happened, but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What they were looking for was literally just some more manpower, or woman power rather. They were looking for a night supervisor, a night shift supervisor in the hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did turn that down because I, for one thing, was not interested in working in a hospital, and I was not interested in working the night shift. And I felt that what I really wanted to do was teach work in an outpatient community. And I felt that that was going to probably have a bigger impact than. That there was other nurses that could fill that open slot for a nursing supervisor on the night shift."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So that's what you thought initially that you were going to be doing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.040375594151556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What they were looking for was literally just some more manpower, or woman power rather. They were looking for a night supervisor, a night shift supervisor in the hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did turn that down because I, for one thing, was not interested in working in a hospital, and I was not interested in working the night shift. And I felt that what I really wanted to do was teach work in an outpatient community. And I felt that that was going to probably have a bigger impact than. That there was other nurses that could fill that open slot for a nursing supervisor on the night shift."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So that's what you thought initially that you were going to be doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I know we'll talk later on about your, the site you really did go to. Okay. Let's go to the sixth question. Training, where did you train? And then you could add things like if you want to say about the faculty, if there was a syllabus, you know, technical studies, other factors. And then there is another part of it that talks about the language training. So tell us first about where you were trained. Where did you live?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.3781951046128396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did turn that down because I, for one thing, was not interested in working in a hospital, and I was not interested in working the night shift. And I felt that what I really wanted to do was teach work in an outpatient community. And I felt that that was going to probably have a bigger impact than. That there was other nurses that could fill that open slot for a nursing supervisor on the night shift."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So that's what you thought initially that you were going to be doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I know we'll talk later on about your, the site you really did go to. Okay. Let's go to the sixth question. Training, where did you train? And then you could add things like if you want to say about the faculty, if there was a syllabus, you know, technical studies, other factors. And then there is another part of it that talks about the language training. So tell us first about where you were trained. Where did you live?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was trained in Tegucigalpa at the training center, it was called, and I lived with a host family in the suburbs of Tegucigalpa. I was their first volunteer trainee that they'd ever had. And sadly, either they misunderstood their, um, their role, or I'm not sure what happened there, but I really never, I had very little contact with them. I ate by myself. They put the food on the table and I ate and then they ate later. They didn't interact with me. They didn't, I very rarely was invited into the living room with them to watch, they had a TV, and I was sad and disappointed about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.642439005125377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I know we'll talk later on about your, the site you really did go to. Okay. Let's go to the sixth question. Training, where did you train? And then you could add things like if you want to say about the faculty, if there was a syllabus, you know, technical studies, other factors. And then there is another part of it that talks about the language training. So tell us first about where you were trained. Where did you live?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was trained in Tegucigalpa at the training center, it was called, and I lived with a host family in the suburbs of Tegucigalpa. I was their first volunteer trainee that they'd ever had. And sadly, either they misunderstood their, um, their role, or I'm not sure what happened there, but I really never, I had very little contact with them. I ate by myself. They put the food on the table and I ate and then they ate later. They didn't interact with me. They didn't, I very rarely was invited into the living room with them to watch, they had a TV, and I was sad and disappointed about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I didn't get to speak Spanish either. I lost that opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Okay. Tell us about your, the faculty at the training center."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9360433390281964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was trained in Tegucigalpa at the training center, it was called, and I lived with a host family in the suburbs of Tegucigalpa. I was their first volunteer trainee that they'd ever had. And sadly, either they misunderstood their, um, their role, or I'm not sure what happened there, but I really never, I had very little contact with them. I ate by myself. They put the food on the table and I ate and then they ate later. They didn't interact with me. They didn't, I very rarely was invited into the living room with them to watch, they had a TV, and I was sad and disappointed about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I didn't get to speak Spanish either. I lost that opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Okay. Tell us about your, the faculty at the training center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The faculty was lovely. They were, they were so nice. The women, they were mainly women that were teaching the courses, and they were very, very good teachers, very good educators. I thought that the training language course was so good. I really love the format of that. And I went to Honduras really with no, um, no grasp of the language at all. And I felt that I came out. I was, I was scored zero."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Spanish? Didn't they say los cero?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.262270376697996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I didn't get to speak Spanish either. I lost that opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Okay. Tell us about your, the faculty at the training center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The faculty was lovely. They were, they were so nice. The women, they were mainly women that were teaching the courses, and they were very, very good teachers, very good educators. I thought that the training language course was so good. I really love the format of that. And I went to Honduras really with no, um, no grasp of the language at all. And I felt that I came out. I was, I was scored zero."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Spanish? Didn't they say los cero?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Los cero."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you study Spanish in Hutto?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5136337518866623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The faculty was lovely. They were, they were so nice. The women, they were mainly women that were teaching the courses, and they were very, very good teachers, very good educators. I thought that the training language course was so good. I really love the format of that. And I went to Honduras really with no, um, no grasp of the language at all. And I felt that I came out. I was, I was scored zero."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Spanish? Didn't they say los cero?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Los cero."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you study Spanish in Hutto?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did in high school. But that had been probably, what, six years prior to that? And it was a high school Spanish course. I learned how to say hola Paco que tal and that was about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I've heard that before. I think I know Paco myself. Um, technical studies during training. What did you learn technically?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7929263909851803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Los cero."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you study Spanish in Hutto?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did in high school. But that had been probably, what, six years prior to that? And it was a high school Spanish course. I learned how to say hola Paco que tal and that was about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I've heard that before. I think I know Paco myself. Um, technical studies during training. What did you learn technically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. In as far as my job or my?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just because we were in the same group, remember we would go visit a hospital or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.103251545539089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did in high school. But that had been probably, what, six years prior to that? And it was a high school Spanish course. I learned how to say hola Paco que tal and that was about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I've heard that before. I think I know Paco myself. Um, technical studies during training. What did you learn technically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. In as far as my job or my?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just because we were in the same group, remember we would go visit a hospital or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We observed, but we didn't get training. I mean, we weren't really training in anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We did observation."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5966068463445544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We observed, but we didn't get training. I mean, we weren't really training in anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We did observation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we just observed and we got to just tour the big maternelle infantile hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And someone fainted there. I remember one of our colleagues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. One did faint when."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.885118718160616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we just observed and we got to just tour the big maternelle infantile hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And someone fainted there. I remember one of our colleagues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. One did faint when."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fainted when we saw some of the things that we saw there. But I don't recall having been given any training that would have had anything to do with skills or actual on the job tasks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What I remember were the observations."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2056874646229065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And someone fainted there. I remember one of our colleagues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. One did faint when."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fainted when we saw some of the things that we saw there. But I don't recall having been given any training that would have had anything to do with skills or actual on the job tasks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What I remember were the observations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What did you think about the other people in your training group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9576388452134648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What did you think about the other people in your training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's a great bunch of people. We had a great group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Made friends with some of them that I'm still friends with. Including you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's true. For the listener, Donna and I have known each other since 1978."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.2862653835705165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's a great bunch of people. We had a great group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Made friends with some of them that I'm still friends with. Including you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's true. For the listener, Donna and I have known each other since 1978."}, {"role": "user", "content": "40 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good Lord. Okay. Do you want to say anything else about the language training before we move on? You thought it was good?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8225498562598967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "40 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good Lord. Okay. Do you want to say anything else about the language training before we move on? You thought it was good?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was really good. I really did, because I've subsequently taken other language courses and nothing compares to as good as that was. I mean, I remember having a headache at the end of every single day, but the drills that they put you through and the fact that it was all oral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All oral. You just sat there and talked and talked and talked. And you did get to see it written on the blackboard, but it was oral. It was a great, for me at least, the way I learn it was perfect for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. Selection. Well, I know you were selected, but were you surprised by anything with the selection process or disappointed? I don't know, that might. Yeah, I mean, we were all selected."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.136166506955441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was really good. I really did, because I've subsequently taken other language courses and nothing compares to as good as that was. I mean, I remember having a headache at the end of every single day, but the drills that they put you through and the fact that it was all oral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All oral. You just sat there and talked and talked and talked. And you did get to see it written on the blackboard, but it was oral. It was a great, for me at least, the way I learn it was perfect for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. Selection. Well, I know you were selected, but were you surprised by anything with the selection process or disappointed? I don't know, that might. Yeah, I mean, we were all selected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was going to say no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I think we'll skip that part. Um, hindsight. Did training prepare you? Was it useful to your Peace Corps service, the training that you had?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8718105024141245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was going to say no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I think we'll skip that part. Um, hindsight. Did training prepare you? Was it useful to your Peace Corps service, the training that you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the language prep was really good. But as far as the individual aspects of each person, what they were going to end up doing, I didn't really have any training at all for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if you want me to talk about that later. Do you want me to talk about that now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you want to say anything, yeah, anything that, um, I mean, I do know like where you did end up. Um. Do you feel like you were prepared when you went to your site? Did the training prepare you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.302011669349027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the language prep was really good. But as far as the individual aspects of each person, what they were going to end up doing, I didn't really have any training at all for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if you want me to talk about that later. Do you want me to talk about that now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you want to say anything, yeah, anything that, um, I mean, I do know like where you did end up. Um. Do you feel like you were prepared when you went to your site? Did the training prepare you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not for what I needed and what I ended up having to do there. I wasn't prepared at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Okay. If you had gone to Choluteca and stayed there, do you think you might have been prepared?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.132809966973705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they also sent me information on treatments and drugs and disease recognition, and those books were so valuable to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was so tempted to take them back to the States with me, but I left them there because they were wonderful. And that was a real godsend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I did things that, I mean, I functioned as a physician in so many respects. And I remember thinking, I'm going to get sued. But then I thought, well, I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right, right."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4808999633041164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was so tempted to take them back to the States with me, but I left them there because they were wonderful. And that was a real godsend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I did things that, I mean, I functioned as a physician in so many respects. And I remember thinking, I'm going to get sued. But then I thought, well, I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. But I delivered babies and I was taught by the dentist how to suture. I sutured a lot of wounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The dentist taught you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8676666258934627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I did things that, I mean, I functioned as a physician in so many respects. And I remember thinking, I'm going to get sued. But then I thought, well, I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. But I delivered babies and I was taught by the dentist how to suture. I sutured a lot of wounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The dentist taught you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The dentist taught me how to suture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the dentist's name?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.070873286547958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just, it's been, what? How long has it been since then, 39 years?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I know what she looks like, but I don't remember her name. But she was great and she did help me how to suture. And I did a lot of machete wounds, especially in children. I took care of a lot of asthmatics, delivered babies, as I said, um, and of course, the usual. Malaria, dengue, parasites, amoebas, worms, you know, accidents, seizures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.523192540608843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just, it's been, what? How long has it been since then, 39 years?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I know what she looks like, but I don't remember her name. But she was great and she did help me how to suture. And I did a lot of machete wounds, especially in children. I took care of a lot of asthmatics, delivered babies, as I said, um, and of course, the usual. Malaria, dengue, parasites, amoebas, worms, you know, accidents, seizures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you have, you have a wealth of stories that you could tell."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.025769489565381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I know what she looks like, but I don't remember her name. But she was great and she did help me how to suture. And I did a lot of machete wounds, especially in children. I took care of a lot of asthmatics, delivered babies, as I said, um, and of course, the usual. Malaria, dengue, parasites, amoebas, worms, you know, accidents, seizures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you have, you have a wealth of stories that you could tell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which we will continue with. Just thinking about, can you remember when you arrived in country? How did you feel? You know, like observing the people, listening, smelling even? I mean, how did you feel when you arrived in Honduras?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.361966099517089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you have, you have a wealth of stories that you could tell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which we will continue with. Just thinking about, can you remember when you arrived in country? How did you feel? You know, like observing the people, listening, smelling even? I mean, how did you feel when you arrived in Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, being in a country, of course, I'd been in a foreign country before, but just being there for days, which turned into weeks, and not understanding the language, because I arrived with such little grasp of Spanish, that was something that I found to be very disconcerting. I knew it would get better, but that was hard. Um. Things were different, obviously, you're in another country. Things were different. I don't remember feeling lonely or feeling that I'd made the wrong decision. I was very excited about being there and just, you know, getting on with the whole experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Anything that you remember that you might want to share about the people when you arrived?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.240008366964457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Hondurans?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Hondurans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or the other Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Hondurans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that point honestly, we didn't have a lot of, you know, it was mainly walking in the street, going into shops. The only, the only real contact we had with Hondurans was mainly with the training center at that point. And then my host family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Who did not include you."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.000010329585749, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that point honestly, we didn't have a lot of, you know, it was mainly walking in the street, going into shops. The only, the only real contact we had with Hondurans was mainly with the training center at that point. And then my host family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Who did not include you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who, very sadly, yeah. Just kind of, you know. And my friend who's sitting right here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She had a lovely host family and I loved to go to her house because they all ate meals together and laughed and talked and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They included me."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.444455921761944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who, very sadly, yeah. Just kind of, you know. And my friend who's sitting right here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She had a lovely host family and I loved to go to her house because they all ate meals together and laughed and talked and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They included me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they included you on everything. And I was kind of sad that I had that. At the same time, I was just glad I had your house to go to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We've already touched on your assignment, but let's see what else we might talk about with your assignment. So you never, you did make a visit to Choluteca I believe."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.938284357513271, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She had a lovely host family and I loved to go to her house because they all ate meals together and laughed and talked and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They included me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they included you on everything. And I was kind of sad that I had that. At the same time, I was just glad I had your house to go to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We've already touched on your assignment, but let's see what else we might talk about with your assignment. So you never, you did make a visit to Choluteca I believe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you know right from the get-go, this is not for me?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.48698261945919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they included you on everything. And I was kind of sad that I had that. At the same time, I was just glad I had your house to go to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We've already touched on your assignment, but let's see what else we might talk about with your assignment. So you never, you did make a visit to Choluteca I believe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you know right from the get-go, this is not for me?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How did Peace Corps react when you told them, I can't go there, or whatever words you used?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.096647354954655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you know right from the get-go, this is not for me?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How did Peace Corps react when you told them, I can't go there, or whatever words you used?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were? Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.78278100816825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my, uh, the manager, the program manager was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ione."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ione, Ione Adams, yeah. She was, she just said, okay, you know, we don't, if this isn't going to fit you. And she also, I don't know that she really understood that they wanted me to work the night shift."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that that really wasn't an understanding that they had had. And I said, if I work the night shift, I'll go back to the States where there's air conditioning. I can sleep during the day and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and if I remember right, did she say something like was it the nurse supervisor that worked there, kind of operated vending machines?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.314201120186945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ione, Ione Adams, yeah. She was, she just said, okay, you know, we don't, if this isn't going to fit you. And she also, I don't know that she really understood that they wanted me to work the night shift."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that that really wasn't an understanding that they had had. And I said, if I work the night shift, I'll go back to the States where there's air conditioning. I can sleep during the day and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and if I remember right, did she say something like was it the nurse supervisor that worked there, kind of operated vending machines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That the director of nursing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Director of nursing."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.904667911318827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that that really wasn't an understanding that they had had. And I said, if I work the night shift, I'll go back to the States where there's air conditioning. I can sleep during the day and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and if I remember right, did she say something like was it the nurse supervisor that worked there, kind of operated vending machines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That the director of nursing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Director of nursing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had in the courtyard of the hospital a little kiosk, and she sold sodas there and candy. And so that's kind of what she did during the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did she direct the nursing department, as far as you know?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.449631012576475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That the director of nursing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Director of nursing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had in the courtyard of the hospital a little kiosk, and she sold sodas there and candy. And so that's kind of what she did during the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did she direct the nursing department, as far as you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I can't see how, but I don't know. I wasn't there long enough to find out. One thing I did feel a little sad about was after the fact, I did wonder if I could have impacted it at all, because, you know, I was concerned about things like maintaining sterility and understanding just basic concepts of, you know, modern day concepts of care. They had Foley catheters dripping urine into coffee cans on the side of the bed. There were dogs running in and out of the ward."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, there were? Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.071530273702903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the patients."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very hot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, extremely hot. And no one ate unless family brought them food. Very, very sad. And I after I said I couldn't do it, I felt. I felt bad. I really did. To this day, when I think about it, I wonder did I make the right decision? However, where I did go, they didn't have a doctor, so they really kind of needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They needed someone there. So. And the fact was they just needed a nurse to work the night shift, is what they needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay, well, let's talk more specifically than about your life in Roatan, one of the Bay Islands. And, you know, you went back and told the program manager for health, Ione Adams, you couldn't go to Choluteca. She seemed fine with it. How did you end up in Roatan?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.523922526336559, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, extremely hot. And no one ate unless family brought them food. Very, very sad. And I after I said I couldn't do it, I felt. I felt bad. I really did. To this day, when I think about it, I wonder did I make the right decision? However, where I did go, they didn't have a doctor, so they really kind of needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They needed someone there. So. And the fact was they just needed a nurse to work the night shift, is what they needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay, well, let's talk more specifically than about your life in Roatan, one of the Bay Islands. And, you know, you went back and told the program manager for health, Ione Adams, you couldn't go to Choluteca. She seemed fine with it. How did you end up in Roatan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she, when I went back to Tegucigalpa and I told Ione that I just felt that this, this was not the reason I came. She said, well, guess what, we've got something. We haven't had a volunteer in the Bay Islands in years, in many years, and something's coming up in the clinic there, in an outpatient clinic. And I said, that is exactly what I was hoping to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I forgot you said you want community health."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.026580584818399, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They needed someone there. So. And the fact was they just needed a nurse to work the night shift, is what they needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay, well, let's talk more specifically than about your life in Roatan, one of the Bay Islands. And, you know, you went back and told the program manager for health, Ione Adams, you couldn't go to Choluteca. She seemed fine with it. How did you end up in Roatan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she, when I went back to Tegucigalpa and I told Ione that I just felt that this, this was not the reason I came. She said, well, guess what, we've got something. We haven't had a volunteer in the Bay Islands in years, in many years, and something's coming up in the clinic there, in an outpatient clinic. And I said, that is exactly what I was hoping to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I forgot you said you want community health."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I really, really, really wanted community health. And so that is how I ended up there. So I made the visit, and the minute I was there, I said, this is exactly what I want. There was a physician there at the time, and so my role was going to be more of a teaching capacity, especially in perinatal, handwashing, hygiene, boiling water, that kind of thing. So, um, that's how it started. And then the doctor was gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In five months."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.58508953868711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she, when I went back to Tegucigalpa and I told Ione that I just felt that this, this was not the reason I came. She said, well, guess what, we've got something. We haven't had a volunteer in the Bay Islands in years, in many years, and something's coming up in the clinic there, in an outpatient clinic. And I said, that is exactly what I was hoping to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I forgot you said you want community health."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I really, really, really wanted community health. And so that is how I ended up there. So I made the visit, and the minute I was there, I said, this is exactly what I want. There was a physician there at the time, and so my role was going to be more of a teaching capacity, especially in perinatal, handwashing, hygiene, boiling water, that kind of thing. So, um, that's how it started. And then the doctor was gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In five months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In five months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they never replaced the doctor?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.205655042985677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I really, really, really wanted community health. And so that is how I ended up there. So I made the visit, and the minute I was there, I said, this is exactly what I want. There was a physician there at the time, and so my role was going to be more of a teaching capacity, especially in perinatal, handwashing, hygiene, boiling water, that kind of thing. So, um, that's how it started. And then the doctor was gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In five months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In five months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they never replaced the doctor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They replaced the, they, we did get a physician for a very short amount of time, but he actually also had a karate studio. And so he spent a really large amount of his time in his karate studio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't remember that, but that's very interesting."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.895172269984086, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In five months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they never replaced the doctor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They replaced the, they, we did get a physician for a very short amount of time, but he actually also had a karate studio. And so he spent a really large amount of his time in his karate studio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't remember that, but that's very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Listener, I'm sorry I'm laughing, but okay, so we're talking about the doctor's karate studio."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.550191411093429, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They replaced the, they, we did get a physician for a very short amount of time, but he actually also had a karate studio. And so he spent a really large amount of his time in his karate studio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't remember that, but that's very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Listener, I'm sorry I'm laughing, but okay, so we're talking about the doctor's karate studio."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He also had a wife that was always at the clinic, Betty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't remember her."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.2779904567704765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Listener, I'm sorry I'm laughing, but okay, so we're talking about the doctor's karate studio."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He also had a wife that was always at the clinic, Betty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't remember her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Remember me telling you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think, you could tell me more because actually it was quite an interesting story."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.975544951967196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He also had a wife that was always at the clinic, Betty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't remember her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Remember me telling you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think, you could tell me more because actually it was quite an interesting story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was kind of running the clinic and then even when he wasn't there, she was running the clinic when he was at the karate studio. And he also had some very dubious practices. He did a DNC in the clinic with unsterile equipment without the patient's permission. And I went to the Ministry of Health and along with the dentist, she went with me, and we talked to the head, the head, she was the manager or whatever they're called."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the Ministry of Health."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.611783891317526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was kind of running the clinic and then even when he wasn't there, she was running the clinic when he was at the karate studio. And he also had some very dubious practices. He did a DNC in the clinic with unsterile equipment without the patient's permission. And I went to the Ministry of Health and along with the dentist, she went with me, and we talked to the head, the head, she was the manager or whatever they're called."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the Ministry of Health."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And, um, and I had kind of a laundry list of things that were, plus some equipment that was disappearing from the clinic. So he was removed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he was removed and which was okay. But then we'd never got a physician again. So that's how I ended up pretty much for a year and a half not having a doctor there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Okay. Can you explain a typical day, and maybe there wasn't a typical day, but what comes to your mind when I ask you that question? A typical day at that centro de salud, I'm guessing."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.235315434797251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And, um, and I had kind of a laundry list of things that were, plus some equipment that was disappearing from the clinic. So he was removed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he was removed and which was okay. But then we'd never got a physician again. So that's how I ended up pretty much for a year and a half not having a doctor there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Okay. Can you explain a typical day, and maybe there wasn't a typical day, but what comes to your mind when I ask you that question? A typical day at that centro de salud, I'm guessing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, Monday through Friday I was there by 8:00. And of course, we shut down for, was it an hour or 2 hours? I can't remember. But so we shut down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At lunchtime, I'm guessing."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5947949275525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he was removed and which was okay. But then we'd never got a physician again. So that's how I ended up pretty much for a year and a half not having a doctor there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Okay. Can you explain a typical day, and maybe there wasn't a typical day, but what comes to your mind when I ask you that question? A typical day at that centro de salud, I'm guessing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, Monday through Friday I was there by 8:00. And of course, we shut down for, was it an hour or 2 hours? I can't remember. But so we shut down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At lunchtime, I'm guessing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the mid time, for lunch. And then we were there till 5:00 or 6:00, and we just saw a slew of patients. And I did have what would be the equivalent of an American LVN nurse who helped me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was is LVN, Donna, for the listener?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.9942165861694443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, Monday through Friday I was there by 8:00. And of course, we shut down for, was it an hour or 2 hours? I can't remember. But so we shut down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At lunchtime, I'm guessing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the mid time, for lunch. And then we were there till 5:00 or 6:00, and we just saw a slew of patients. And I did have what would be the equivalent of an American LVN nurse who helped me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was is LVN, Donna, for the listener?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "An LVN is a licensed vocational nurse who doesn't have as much education as a registered nurse. And their role is very different. And she was a great nurse, so she was really good. She taught, she did teach me a lot. Thank goodness for her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She did, good."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2157962068549377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the mid time, for lunch. And then we were there till 5:00 or 6:00, and we just saw a slew of patients. And I did have what would be the equivalent of an American LVN nurse who helped me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was is LVN, Donna, for the listener?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "An LVN is a licensed vocational nurse who doesn't have as much education as a registered nurse. And their role is very different. And she was a great nurse, so she was really good. She taught, she did teach me a lot. Thank goodness for her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She did, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She did. And we would usually spend the end of each day washing gloves, turning them inside out, drying them, wrapping them in brown paper bags, and then sterilizing them the next morning in the pressure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the autoclave, yes."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4619957853943752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "An LVN is a licensed vocational nurse who doesn't have as much education as a registered nurse. And their role is very different. And she was a great nurse, so she was really good. She taught, she did teach me a lot. Thank goodness for her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She did, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She did. And we would usually spend the end of each day washing gloves, turning them inside out, drying them, wrapping them in brown paper bags, and then sterilizing them the next morning in the pressure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the autoclave, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. The pressure cooker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, pressure cooker? I thought you had an autoclave."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.3772232995807614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We put it on the kerosene stove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we boiled the needles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We boiled the needles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And use them again."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6413592217564017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we boiled the needles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We boiled the needles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And use them again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'd use them until you could no longer see the markings on the side, so you were kind of guessing at the dosage. Dosing them out, as sad and as scary as that is, I mean, thank goodness we didn't have anything greater than a three CC syringe. So you could kind of, most of them were used for giving penicillin. So. And I didn't even have a magic marker to mark them on the sides. So you would just kind of guess from whatever other syringes you had. So we had to prepare a lot of equipment. And order supplies, do that kind of thing. But I also often had patients come to me in the evening and it was usually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They knew where you lived."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.934843579729335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We boiled the needles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And use them again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'd use them until you could no longer see the markings on the side, so you were kind of guessing at the dosage. Dosing them out, as sad and as scary as that is, I mean, thank goodness we didn't have anything greater than a three CC syringe. So you could kind of, most of them were used for giving penicillin. So. And I didn't even have a magic marker to mark them on the sides. So you would just kind of guess from whatever other syringes you had. So we had to prepare a lot of equipment. And order supplies, do that kind of thing. But I also often had patients come to me in the evening and it was usually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They knew where you lived."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They knew where I lived and it was mainly kids that came and. But at the clinic, kids came without their parents. I mean, it was very unusual for kids to show up with their parents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With their parents."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5121525675670804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They knew where I lived and it was mainly kids that came and. But at the clinic, kids came without their parents. I mean, it was very unusual for kids to show up with their parents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With their parents."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With their parents. And often they came in for something like an injury, usually a machete injury, and I had to suture it, clean it up and suture it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, uh, but at my house, I had one little patient. His name was Tony. He was a doll. He had bad asthma. So I kept aminophylline at my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of him."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7912806306300895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With their parents. And often they came in for something like an injury, usually a machete injury, and I had to suture it, clean it up and suture it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, uh, but at my house, I had one little patient. His name was Tony. He was a doll. He had bad asthma. So I kept aminophylline at my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because of him. So I had syringes and tourniquets and all the equipment that needed to give him aminophylline. And that was all I had, aminophylline, that was it. But it would usually, it would fix it. And then he would stay for a while. And I'd give him a peanut butter sandwich. And he liked to sing. So once he could breathe again, he would sit on my porch and sing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? That's a lovely story."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1014229229223216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, uh, but at my house, I had one little patient. His name was Tony. He was a doll. He had bad asthma. So I kept aminophylline at my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because of him. So I had syringes and tourniquets and all the equipment that needed to give him aminophylline. And that was all I had, aminophylline, that was it. But it would usually, it would fix it. And then he would stay for a while. And I'd give him a peanut butter sandwich. And he liked to sing. So once he could breathe again, he would sit on my porch and sing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? That's a lovely story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was so adorable. He was. I heard down the road that he died of an asthma attack. So. Yeah, but he was, he was such a doll."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I'm assuming that you could tell many, many stories about your time as Dr. Stern. Oh, excuse me, La Doctora Stern in Roatan. Now, what was the name of the town you lived in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3349143588025796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because of him. So I had syringes and tourniquets and all the equipment that needed to give him aminophylline. And that was all I had, aminophylline, that was it. But it would usually, it would fix it. And then he would stay for a while. And I'd give him a peanut butter sandwich. And he liked to sing. So once he could breathe again, he would sit on my porch and sing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? That's a lovely story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was so adorable. He was. I heard down the road that he died of an asthma attack. So. Yeah, but he was, he was such a doll."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I'm assuming that you could tell many, many stories about your time as Dr. Stern. Oh, excuse me, La Doctora Stern in Roatan. Now, what was the name of the town you lived in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Coxen Hole."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you spell that for us?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5943492875584218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was so adorable. He was. I heard down the road that he died of an asthma attack. So. Yeah, but he was, he was such a doll."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I'm assuming that you could tell many, many stories about your time as Dr. Stern. Oh, excuse me, La Doctora Stern in Roatan. Now, what was the name of the town you lived in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Coxen Hole."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you spell that for us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "C-O-X-E-N."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hole. H-O-L-E. And that was the town in Roatan, the island of Roatan, where you lived. And other stories may come to mind or anything else you might want to share about a typical day at your assignment in Coxen Hole?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.202900355010397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "C-O-X-E-N."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hole. H-O-L-E. And that was the town in Roatan, the island of Roatan, where you lived. And other stories may come to mind or anything else you might want to share about a typical day at your assignment in Coxen Hole?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, initially when we had a physician, my typical day was mainly doing classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I would go to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who did you teach for?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.5587781722337746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, initially when we had a physician, my typical day was mainly doing classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I would go to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who did you teach for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I started by trying to teach some prenatal classes, pregnant moms, and those were so interesting. I learned more than I taught."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Oh, and I'm interrupting myself. What language did you speak in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.0478742867083635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I started by trying to teach some prenatal classes, pregnant moms, and those were so interesting. I learned more than I taught."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Oh, and I'm interrupting myself. What language did you speak in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, English. Everything, almost everything was in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Unless someone from the Ministry of Health came. And then I had to find, I did find out that my regular English wasn't going to work because it was Caribbean English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yours, for what?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1643047630092926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, English. Everything, almost everything was in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Unless someone from the Ministry of Health came. And then I had to find, I did find out that my regular English wasn't going to work because it was Caribbean English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yours, for what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My English. For example, they didn't understand me, the way I spoke. For example, it was a Caribbean English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay, Caribbean, that they spoke?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.293671958899214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Unless someone from the Ministry of Health came. And then I had to find, I did find out that my regular English wasn't going to work because it was Caribbean English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yours, for what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My English. For example, they didn't understand me, the way I spoke. For example, it was a Caribbean English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay, Caribbean, that they spoke?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That they spoke. For example, I remember the first time someone came in and said to me, I said, I said, what's going on? And they said, I got one open belly mon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, hold on. For the listener, I didn't get that. Can you repeat that once again, Donna?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4374132876657932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My English. For example, they didn't understand me, the way I spoke. For example, it was a Caribbean English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay, Caribbean, that they spoke?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That they spoke. For example, I remember the first time someone came in and said to me, I said, I said, what's going on? And they said, I got one open belly mon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, hold on. For the listener, I didn't get that. Can you repeat that once again, Donna?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got one open belly mon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I got one open belly mon. Okay, could you tell us what that means?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5971258751842148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That they spoke. For example, I remember the first time someone came in and said to me, I said, I said, what's going on? And they said, I got one open belly mon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, hold on. For the listener, I didn't get that. Can you repeat that once again, Donna?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got one open belly mon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I got one open belly mon. Okay, could you tell us what that means?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That means I have diarrhea. I have an open belly, man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I never would have guessed that one."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9717603397335983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That means I have diarrhea. I have an open belly, man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I never would have guessed that one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In other words, your belly is open and everything's coming out. You have diarrhea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or I remember one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you find that out?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.19084482192622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In other words, your belly is open and everything's coming out. You have diarrhea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or I remember one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you find that out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to keep asking the question. But they, that's how they would describe diarrhea. And I remember one fellow that came in that was injured, and I said, what happened? He said, I fell off she moto. I fell off of her motorcycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. That one kind of made sense. Okay. But did you say she moto?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.704746693736074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to keep asking the question. But they, that's how they would describe diarrhea. And I remember one fellow that came in that was injured, and I said, what happened? He said, I fell off she moto. I fell off of her motorcycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. That one kind of made sense. Okay. But did you say she moto?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She moto. Her motorcycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Her motorcycle. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really. Okay. Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5983031454596457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the rest of us. I had a couple of other helpers that helped in the, and they spoke, they spoke English, the Caribbean English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She moto."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She moto."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, uh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Tell us about your living conditions. Where did you live in Coxen Hole?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.564201845623656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived in a wooden structure that was made out of plywood sheets on pier and beam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pier and beam, just up off the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there weren't any windows, there weren't any screens. There were just wooden shutters that opened and closed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So an opening, I mean."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9602242729151733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pier and beam, just up off the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there weren't any windows, there weren't any screens. There were just wooden shutters that opened and closed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So an opening, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just an opening with a wooden shutter I could close. Yeah. And then the walls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any screens on your windows?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6545978677965105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just an opening with a wooden shutter I could close. Yeah. And then the walls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any screens on your windows?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No screens. And the walls did not meet the roof. So there was about maybe a 4 to 5 inch opening. Which kind of was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For ventilation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Air path. However, everything, every varmint in the world came in too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us the varmints that came in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.5118492195018645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Air path. However, everything, every varmint in the world came in too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us the varmints that came in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I had a terrible rat problem for a while, and I had to hire some guys that were coming through town that said they were exterminators to get rid of my rats. It was good timing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when they came into the house to get rid of the rats, a bunch of snakes slithered out of the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what kind of snakes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.013165799446516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I had a terrible rat problem for a while, and I had to hire some guys that were coming through town that said they were exterminators to get rid of my rats. It was good timing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when they came into the house to get rid of the rats, a bunch of snakes slithered out of the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what kind of snakes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were black. And I'm not sure. I don't think they were poisonous. But I didn't even know I had the snakes. But I had a semblance of a kitchen. There were these, there was a little row of cabinets, and they were underneath these cabinets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The snakes were under the cabinets, okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.642202742724987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was a snake nest under there. So whatever poison they used got rid of the snakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And also some spiders came out too. And then that night the rats commenced to rattle around on the rafters. And I didn't have a ceiling, it was just rafters. And these rats were big and they were really, really bold. I remember playing a flashlight on them. You could see their red reflex in their eyes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they just stared at me. It was like, I dare you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you guess how long they might have been?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.158003047472207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And also some spiders came out too. And then that night the rats commenced to rattle around on the rafters. And I didn't have a ceiling, it was just rafters. And these rats were big and they were really, really bold. I remember playing a flashlight on them. You could see their red reflex in their eyes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they just stared at me. It was like, I dare you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you guess how long they might have been?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh, 12 inches? They were so huge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.6200033860802305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they just stared at me. It was like, I dare you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you guess how long they might have been?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh, 12 inches? They were so huge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they would there was at least four, maybe five of them, that walked across the rafters. One night one fell. And I said, that's it. And so I got the exterminators."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it ever fall on you or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0222259845335895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh, 12 inches? They were so huge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they would there was at least four, maybe five of them, that walked across the rafters. One night one fell. And I said, that's it. And so I got the exterminators."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it ever fall on you or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, thank God. I got the, I found the exterminators. They'd gone to the other end of the island. They came back and I told them, the rats are still in the house. And they were so hilarious. They said, you know, I think we need Kill Rat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that like rat kill, would you say so?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.282888867672961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's some kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kill Rat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was called Kill Rat and it literally was in English and it said Kill Rat on it. So they ran out and bought Kill Rat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Put it in the house. But in the meantime, I had to sleep on my neighbor's porch and I remember hearing them rattling around and putting the flashlight over to my house at night and I'd see them walking around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the rats?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.53654318630329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was called Kill Rat and it literally was in English and it said Kill Rat on it. So they ran out and bought Kill Rat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Put it in the house. But in the meantime, I had to sleep on my neighbor's porch and I remember hearing them rattling around and putting the flashlight over to my house at night and I'd see them walking around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the rats?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but they put the Kill Rat out and within about a week they were gone. And I got to go back to the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1315347979052963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but they put the Kill Rat out and within about a week they were gone. And I got to go back to the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Snakes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Snakes, spiders, rats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about bats?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8660923430929586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Snakes, spiders, rats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about bats?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope, no bats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No bats."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No bats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you have a big mosquito problem?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.295658158992176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope, no bats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No bats."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No bats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you have a big mosquito problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Inside the house, I mean?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.303281677768119, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Inside the house, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the house, out of the house. And initially, I didn't realize how bad the mosquitoes were on the island, and I was just eaten alive on my arms and lower legs. And I found out that I either had to wear repellent all the time or long sleeve everything, and it was too hot to wear long sleeves. So I did the repellent and I initially had infected mosquito bites on my arms. To this day, I'm scarred from it. They got so infected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's fading. A little bit dramatic over that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get malaria or dengue fever?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.436150219466813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's fading. A little bit dramatic over that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get malaria or dengue fever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't get dengue, but I, when I returned to the States, I had symptoms of malaria. I started having cyclic fevers. And of course, when I went to the doctor, they did the blood test. It was negative because you have to be febrile basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it only, it only happened once and then it was over. And I don't know, I don't know if it was malaria or not. I really don't know. I did. There was a PhD student from Princeton who was there when I was there and he."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Roatan, in Coxen Hole?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.040166910518681, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't get dengue, but I, when I returned to the States, I had symptoms of malaria. I started having cyclic fevers. And of course, when I went to the doctor, they did the blood test. It was negative because you have to be febrile basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it only, it only happened once and then it was over. And I don't know, I don't know if it was malaria or not. I really don't know. I did. There was a PhD student from Princeton who was there when I was there and he."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Roatan, in Coxen Hole?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, yeah, he was working on, um. There was a different language spoken on the other end of the island that he was writing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.600185456131868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it only, it only happened once and then it was over. And I don't know, I don't know if it was malaria or not. I really don't know. I did. There was a PhD student from Princeton who was there when I was there and he."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Roatan, in Coxen Hole?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, yeah, he was working on, um. There was a different language spoken on the other end of the island that he was writing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Garifano [Garifuna]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And for the, for the listener, would you spell Garifano?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.3363312155444005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know that there is a spelling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "G-A-R. Garif?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I-F-U-N-A."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I-N-O. Garifino?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Oh yeah. Okay. What is, what is Garifuna?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.818145795049333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "G-A-R. Garif?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I-F-U-N-A."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I-N-O. Garifino?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Oh yeah. Okay. What is, what is Garifuna?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, uh, Garifuna. It was a language spoken by the inhabitants of the opposite end of the island that I was living on. And it was supposedly a combination of. I don't know if I'm remembering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An African dialect, wasn't it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.353495327832593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I-N-O. Garifino?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Oh yeah. Okay. What is, what is Garifuna?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, uh, Garifuna. It was a language spoken by the inhabitants of the opposite end of the island that I was living on. And it was supposedly a combination of. I don't know if I'm remembering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An African dialect, wasn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Because they were, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had been slaves I think."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.739514293297657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was like an Indian and a Black combination and they had their own language. And so he was working on this. And the reason I'm bringing him up is he got a terrible case of dengue fever. Terrible. And he came to my house and we had some IVs and actually they sold IVs you could buy for your own use at the local pharmacy. So I went and got some IVs and I let him stay in my house and I gave him IV fluids and medication for the fever and whatever I had at the time. And he improved enough to go home, to get a plane and get home. So and he didn't come back for the duration that I was there. He wasn't finished. So I don't know if he ever came back. It was, he was pretty sick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, this was so long ago that I may not be remembering correctly. He may have been in a hospital on the mainland for a while. I would imagine, because he was really sick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I never got dengue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How was your relation with the people of Coxen Hole?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.155015881441841, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, this was so long ago that I may not be remembering correctly. He may have been in a hospital on the mainland for a while. I would imagine, because he was really sick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I never got dengue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How was your relation with the people of Coxen Hole?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good. It was good, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make friends?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6605134338788154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good. It was good, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. They were friendly and they were nice and being that we all spoke English, it was easier to get to know people and they were accustomed to, since it was an island, there was this, there was a resort on the other side of the island. So they were accustomed to seeing Americans and people from other countries come through off the little DC-3s that brought in the tourists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "DC-3s, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "DC-3s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Those are rather old aren't they?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.956126037643128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. They were friendly and they were nice and being that we all spoke English, it was easier to get to know people and they were accustomed to, since it was an island, there was this, there was a resort on the other side of the island. So they were accustomed to seeing Americans and people from other countries come through off the little DC-3s that brought in the tourists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "DC-3s, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "DC-3s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Those are rather old aren't they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We, the only thing that came to the island was DC-3s and they had a caliche landing strip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say that again, they had a what?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1734733751590314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "DC-3s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Those are rather old aren't they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We, the only thing that came to the island was DC-3s and they had a caliche landing strip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say that again, they had a what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Caliche. Caliche is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.414970416843368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We, the only thing that came to the island was DC-3s and they had a caliche landing strip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say that again, they had a what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Caliche. Caliche is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's like the thing that's used for pavement in countries, for country roads. It's kind of dusty, it's a compressed gravel, and there's probably a better explanation for what it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know how to spell caliche?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.572189352048187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Caliche. Caliche is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's like the thing that's used for pavement in countries, for country roads. It's kind of dusty, it's a compressed gravel, and there's probably a better explanation for what it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know how to spell caliche?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. It's with a C, I think, caliche. But it was a short runway and I remember many times being on the plane, the DC-3, and I pretty much knew from the landmarks when we needed to get lifted and sometimes thinking, oh my God, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Otherwise you'd be in the water."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7468770578313189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's like the thing that's used for pavement in countries, for country roads. It's kind of dusty, it's a compressed gravel, and there's probably a better explanation for what it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know how to spell caliche?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. It's with a C, I think, caliche. But it was a short runway and I remember many times being on the plane, the DC-3, and I pretty much knew from the landmarks when we needed to get lifted and sometimes thinking, oh my God, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Otherwise you'd be in the water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Otherwise you'd be in the water, but nothing ever happened. Those were amazing planes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I was like a gravel like."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9409745087014654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. It's with a C, I think, caliche. But it was a short runway and I remember many times being on the plane, the DC-3, and I pretty much knew from the landmarks when we needed to get lifted and sometimes thinking, oh my God, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Otherwise you'd be in the water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Otherwise you'd be in the water, but nothing ever happened. Those were amazing planes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I was like a gravel like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. It was, it wasn't pavement, and it wasn't smooth because it was caliche so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I never heard that word. Okay. Were there other Peace Corps volunteers in your town?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.156638343001628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Otherwise you'd be in the water, but nothing ever happened. Those were amazing planes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I was like a gravel like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. It was, it wasn't pavement, and it wasn't smooth because it was caliche so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I never heard that word. Okay. Were there other Peace Corps volunteers in your town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other Peace Corps volunteers on the island of Roatan?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3962648255573646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. It was, it wasn't pavement, and it wasn't smooth because it was caliche so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I never heard that word. Okay. Were there other Peace Corps volunteers in your town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other Peace Corps volunteers on the island of Roatan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Utila or Guanaja?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6625164728415163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other Peace Corps volunteers on the island of Roatan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Utila or Guanaja?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were it."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9583516364905735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about Utila or Guanaja?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it on the whole thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the whole time you were there."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.287057373878415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it on the whole thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the whole time you were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole time, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now this, I'm not sure why this is here. This is talk about the Peace Corps staff and this is assignment. Um. I'm going to skip that part. Tell us about your leisure time. What did you do when you weren't working at the clinic?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6522859709760165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it on the whole thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the whole time you were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole time, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now this, I'm not sure why this is here. This is talk about the Peace Corps staff and this is assignment. Um. I'm going to skip that part. Tell us about your leisure time. What did you do when you weren't working at the clinic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I play the piano and of course I couldn't bring a piano with me. I play the piano, but I couldn't take a piano with me. So I took my, I bought a guitar and took it down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know how to play the guitar?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.058095523306685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole time, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now this, I'm not sure why this is here. This is talk about the Peace Corps staff and this is assignment. Um. I'm going to skip that part. Tell us about your leisure time. What did you do when you weren't working at the clinic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I play the piano and of course I couldn't bring a piano with me. I play the piano, but I couldn't take a piano with me. So I took my, I bought a guitar and took it down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know how to play the guitar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I learned there because I knew I had to play something musical so, and I bought a chord book, so I learned how to play."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You taught yourself."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.8988833621070187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I learned there because I knew I had to play something musical so, and I bought a chord book, so I learned how to play."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You taught yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's not that hard, the guitar. So with the chord book, I learned how to play the guitar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I play it now, but I did then. I played pretty well for about 20 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what else did you do with your leisure time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.220981513452243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's not that hard, the guitar. So with the chord book, I learned how to play the guitar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I play it now, but I did then. I played pretty well for about 20 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what else did you do with your leisure time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I read a lot. That was hard though, because I had to read around a candle or a kerosene lamp and it was really hot. And I usually didn't have time in the day to read. And then on the weekends, fortunately I did have a fair amount of visitors. I didn't know most of them. They came to see me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, who come to visit you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.57886834828027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I play it now, but I did then. I played pretty well for about 20 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what else did you do with your leisure time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I read a lot. That was hard though, because I had to read around a candle or a kerosene lamp and it was really hot. And I usually didn't have time in the day to read. And then on the weekends, fortunately I did have a fair amount of visitors. I didn't know most of them. They came to see me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, who come to visit you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps volunteers. And so because it was an island, you know, people wanted to come to the island, so they would come and I would always let anyone stay with me that was a Peace Corps volunteer. So I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there people you really had no idea who they were?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.440148625898861, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah. I usually got a telegram though or. Now, some people showed up and I knew them. I knew who they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but there were some, or I would know one person in a group and I'd say, okay, you're going to sleep on the floor, but you can stay here. I've got some sheets. And I remember these two guys, oh my God. They were sleeping on the floor. I think I had ten people in the house that day, and I heard nothing but whining and complaining all night about not having a bed. And I'm like, I have one bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's a single. So that's all I've got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Huh. If I may ask, okay, is your house sounds very simple. Did you have a toilet or did you have to use an outhouse?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7112762509987345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but there were some, or I would know one person in a group and I'd say, okay, you're going to sleep on the floor, but you can stay here. I've got some sheets. And I remember these two guys, oh my God. They were sleeping on the floor. I think I had ten people in the house that day, and I heard nothing but whining and complaining all night about not having a bed. And I'm like, I have one bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's a single. So that's all I've got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Huh. If I may ask, okay, is your house sounds very simple. Did you have a toilet or did you have to use an outhouse?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they. I lived next door to my landlord and my landlord, he was a sailor. He was gone most of the time. But he did have enough of the resources and funds to build a bathroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Inside your house?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.0125291677763717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's a single. So that's all I've got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Huh. If I may ask, okay, is your house sounds very simple. Did you have a toilet or did you have to use an outhouse?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they. I lived next door to my landlord and my landlord, he was a sailor. He was gone most of the time. But he did have enough of the resources and funds to build a bathroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Inside your house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was, it was attached to the house. So there was a toilet and there was a concrete shower, but there was no water in the house pumped in, but it was hooked to a septic. So what I did, I could use the toilet and I could stand there and take a bath or a shower with like cups. I paid children to go fetch water for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did they go?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.484603910835027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was, it was attached to the house. So there was a toilet and there was a concrete shower, but there was no water in the house pumped in, but it was hooked to a septic. So what I did, I could use the toilet and I could stand there and take a bath or a shower with like cups. I paid children to go fetch water for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did they go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There, you could go down the hill, down the road. And there were some faucets down there, and they would bring buckets of water to my house. And so I had this big tin that I'd bought, or I had the kids go get for me, and I kept it full of water. And with that, I could bathe every day. And I stood there and just bathed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I could do it with, like, a cereal bowl. I mean, I got so good at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you mean like a?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7606710120389186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There, you could go down the hill, down the road. And there were some faucets down there, and they would bring buckets of water to my house. And so I had this big tin that I'd bought, or I had the kids go get for me, and I kept it full of water. And with that, I could bathe every day. And I stood there and just bathed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I could do it with, like, a cereal bowl. I mean, I got so good at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you mean like a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A cereal bowl of water, yeah. Two cereal bowls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no cereal in there."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.408235817331998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A cereal bowl of water, yeah. Two cereal bowls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no cereal in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not usually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then I had to use a fair amount, of course, to flush the toilet. And honestly, thank gosh, it usually flushed. It really did. I was, I was lucky on the, in that respect. I didn't have electricity. I didn't have any running water. I didn't have a way to cook. I did buy a kerosene burner with the kerosene bottle. And that kind of blew up and smoked and almost burned. And I just said, to heck with that and kind of just lived on sandwiches. I'd go to a restaurant every now and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Was there, I know some of us on the mainland would go eat, um. I mean, we would pay them."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.786928685924442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not usually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then I had to use a fair amount, of course, to flush the toilet. And honestly, thank gosh, it usually flushed. It really did. I was, I was lucky on the, in that respect. I didn't have electricity. I didn't have any running water. I didn't have a way to cook. I did buy a kerosene burner with the kerosene bottle. And that kind of blew up and smoked and almost burned. And I just said, to heck with that and kind of just lived on sandwiches. I'd go to a restaurant every now and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Was there, I know some of us on the mainland would go eat, um. I mean, we would pay them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In homes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In homes. And they would call it a comedor, C-O-M-E-D- O-R, which was like a dining room. Did they have stuff like that in Coxen Hole?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.451205330486203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had asked my landlady if she would be interested in letting me buy dinner every night or at least five nights a week. And she wasn't interested in that, for whatever reasons. I think, I don't know. She was busy and she just wasn't always home to cook. And we really on that island, we didn't have comedors, we had restaurants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And people just didn't really do that. They didn't really have people go to their house and eat. So I would just go to a restaurant or I'd make a sandwich. And one of my favorite things was smoked oysters and sardines. I just loved them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like you would buy them at the store?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6124503672068924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And people just didn't really do that. They didn't really have people go to their house and eat. So I would just go to a restaurant or I'd make a sandwich. And one of my favorite things was smoked oysters and sardines. I just loved them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like you would buy them at the store?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would buy them at the store and I would eat them. And there was a man who was of the Baha'i faith who one night in a dream received this wonderful recipe from God for bread. And I'm not kidding. His bread was divine. And so I bought bread from the Baha'i guy every day and I made sandwiches with that. It was delicious bread. I think it just had coconut milk in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder, yes, yeah. Cause I."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7916115191187694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like you would buy them at the store?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would buy them at the store and I would eat them. And there was a man who was of the Baha'i faith who one night in a dream received this wonderful recipe from God for bread. And I'm not kidding. His bread was divine. And so I bought bread from the Baha'i guy every day and I made sandwiches with that. It was delicious bread. I think it just had coconut milk in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder, yes, yeah. Cause I."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was really good. Yeah. So yeah, that's kind of how I ate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since I know that you, living on the island, that people would go there to snorkel, scuba dive, swim, you know. Did you, were you able to do any of these activities on the weekends?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.211866072986135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was really good. Yeah. So yeah, that's kind of how I ate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since I know that you, living on the island, that people would go there to snorkel, scuba dive, swim, you know. Did you, were you able to do any of these activities on the weekends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I befriended some people who were in other ministries, agriculture, fisheries. And so I became friends with them. So we would snorkel together. I never scuba dived, but I did snorkel and we would swim. And sometimes, you know, other Peace Corps volunteers, of course, you know, go swimming with them. Most of that did not occur in Coxen Hole. That was not a good beach there. It really wasn't a beach as a matter of fact. It was filled with outhouses over the water. So you didn't do that there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean that was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Outhouses over the water."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4576289699845946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I befriended some people who were in other ministries, agriculture, fisheries. And so I became friends with them. So we would snorkel together. I never scuba dived, but I did snorkel and we would swim. And sometimes, you know, other Peace Corps volunteers, of course, you know, go swimming with them. Most of that did not occur in Coxen Hole. That was not a good beach there. It really wasn't a beach as a matter of fact. It was filled with outhouses over the water. So you didn't do that there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean that was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Outhouses over the water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Outhouses over the water for as far as you could see. So you did not get in the water there. So you had to go walk to a beach. Of course I had a bicycle, but, uh. Or you would take a busito to the other side of the island where there was a resort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A busito was a little bus?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0341098394871535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Outhouses over the water for as far as you could see. So you did not get in the water there. So you had to go walk to a beach. Of course I had a bicycle, but, uh. Or you would take a busito to the other side of the island where there was a resort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A busito was a little bus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a little bus, yes. And hopefully it had brakes. I remember several times being on the bus and the fellow driving the bus kept downshifting when we went downhill. I remember one time I was sitting at the front. I said, why do you keep downshifting?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No brakes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he said, no hay frenos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which, and tell us what no hay frenos means?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.6347035055396955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he said, no hay frenos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which, and tell us what no hay frenos means?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No brakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No brakes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm like, oh well, dios mio. He's not going fast. We'll be fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often do you think you would have Peace Corps volunteers just show up to stay with you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8163372283774393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No brakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No brakes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm like, oh well, dios mio. He's not going fast. We'll be fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often do you think you would have Peace Corps volunteers just show up to stay with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, around the holidays, I would have a number of them and then I could go for a couple of months without anyone coming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. It wasn't like every week?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0181524759749325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm like, oh well, dios mio. He's not going fast. We'll be fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often do you think you would have Peace Corps volunteers just show up to stay with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, around the holidays, I would have a number of them and then I could go for a couple of months without anyone coming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. It wasn't like every week?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. It was a real hit and miss thing. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you, were there dances?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4915462666357193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. It was a real hit and miss thing. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you, were there dances?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Movie theater?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4177589391436474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes. It was, it was, it. Pretty much when you went, the reels usually broke."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was still fun to go. And of course, there were dogs running in and out of the movie theater. There were ladies that were always selling sandwiches out front. You could buy beer inside. And if the movie wasn't good from the balcony, the beer bottles hit the screen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes beer came over the side of the balcony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay. That's really interesting."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.79750993238183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was still fun to go. And of course, there were dogs running in and out of the movie theater. There were ladies that were always selling sandwiches out front. You could buy beer inside. And if the movie wasn't good from the balcony, the beer bottles hit the screen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes beer came over the side of the balcony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay. That's really interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Oh, how about, I know in some communities, church life is important."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.219455480424256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes beer came over the side of the balcony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay. That's really interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Oh, how about, I know in some communities, church life is important."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a church, churches in your town? Did you go? What faiths were there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.577172756026951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Oh, how about, I know in some communities, church life is important."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a church, churches in your town? Did you go? What faiths were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a Baptist church and, um, I did go initially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the Baptist church."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1816947605270998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a Baptist church and, um, I did go initially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the Baptist church."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the Baptist Church, and they had a piano they let me play there. So they would let me go and play the piano."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to, I have to be honest and say as the two years marched on, I didn't go as often as I did initially. But I did get to know a lot of people in the community by doing that. And I did play for their choir at times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did you? Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5352164005856666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the Baptist Church, and they had a piano they let me play there. So they would let me go and play the piano."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to, I have to be honest and say as the two years marched on, I didn't go as often as I did initially. But I did get to know a lot of people in the community by doing that. And I did play for their choir at times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did you? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good, good. Did they have other denominations there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9280182228729625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to, I have to be honest and say as the two years marched on, I didn't go as often as I did initially. But I did get to know a lot of people in the community by doing that. And I did play for their choir at times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did you? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good, good. Did they have other denominations there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Coxen Hole. It was just the Baptist Church. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, well, let's go on to the ninth question. The end of your first year, can you think back and what notable events transpired? What were your reflections after a year? Then it's going to ask about health problems and stuff like that. So anything that you can think about. Can you remember how your life was after a year in Coxen Hole?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.614837312188843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Coxen Hole. It was just the Baptist Church. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, well, let's go on to the ninth question. The end of your first year, can you think back and what notable events transpired? What were your reflections after a year? Then it's going to ask about health problems and stuff like that. So anything that you can think about. Can you remember how your life was after a year in Coxen Hole?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After a year in Coxen Hole, I was pretty happy. I mean, one thing I was, was I was busy. I was very busy. I mean, I worked every day, sometimes even on Sundays. Sometimes people came to my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was busy. I mean, they came to me in the middle of the night if they had an emergency. And which was not very often, I have to admit, that was not very often. But they did. The kids would come. I think the kids just liked peanut butter sandwiches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's possible. Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.958624570903762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They'd have an itch or they'd have a, they'd have a scratch or something. I had a little girl who lived with her sister and they were obviously so poor and she was so skinny. She had a terrible case of worms and I let her become my maid. And so she would come and sort of sweep the floor. She was so tiny and she wore these huge, huge, like evening gown sort of dresses that she had gotten. The boat would come with donated clothes and she loved beautiful net dresses or ballerina type dresses. And they were, of course, never fit her. She was so tiny. But she would come and clean my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, sweet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I would always give her a loaf of bread and maybe some sardines or something. She got some Baha'i bread. And so I was busy. I was really busy. I have to say, even though I was busy and I was friendly with many of the islanders, I was, it was, it was lonely because I was the only American there. I was the only one, you know, there was no one to really share that experience with me that I could directly relate to. So I do remember being, just getting really lonely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just getting really, really lonely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. Which I think happens to many of us."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.509582856559735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I would always give her a loaf of bread and maybe some sardines or something. She got some Baha'i bread. And so I was busy. I was really busy. I have to say, even though I was busy and I was friendly with many of the islanders, I was, it was, it was lonely because I was the only American there. I was the only one, you know, there was no one to really share that experience with me that I could directly relate to. So I do remember being, just getting really lonely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just getting really, really lonely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. Which I think happens to many of us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any unexpected events or relationships that happened around that time, a year into your service?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.121758729510817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just getting really, really lonely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. Which I think happens to many of us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any unexpected events or relationships that happened around that time, a year into your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no. Later maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Later. Okay. Health problems?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.690843032789797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any unexpected events or relationships that happened around that time, a year into your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no. Later maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Later. Okay. Health problems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was really healthy, unbelievably healthy. As a matter of fact, I used to get a lot of headaches in the two years I was down there. I had brought a huge bottle of aspirin because it's kind of all we had back then. I barely touched it the two years I was there, I was so healthy. I did get amoebas once, but that was easily fixed with some Flagyl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do about drinking water?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6952579324962915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was no potable water there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you could boil it, but it still didn't look very good and there were no filters to filter it with. And it was usually pretty hazy and I just couldn't make myself drink it. And then of course, my stove blew up and I never bought another one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I drank rum and Coke or juice or Coke. Or beer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No water. So you really didn't drink water?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.439175480551435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you could boil it, but it still didn't look very good and there were no filters to filter it with. And it was usually pretty hazy and I just couldn't make myself drink it. And then of course, my stove blew up and I never bought another one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I drank rum and Coke or juice or Coke. Or beer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No water. So you really didn't drink water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't. I, listen, I cannot tell you how much I love water from that experience. Oh my gosh. There's nothing like really good water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know. Yes."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.265750533946038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I drank rum and Coke or juice or Coke. Or beer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No water. So you really didn't drink water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't. I, listen, I cannot tell you how much I love water from that experience. Oh my gosh. There's nothing like really good water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And just not ever having it. And we didn't have bottled water back then either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I know. Yeah. And any travel, did you travel anywhere?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.07305614882893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't. I, listen, I cannot tell you how much I love water from that experience. Oh my gosh. There's nothing like really good water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And just not ever having it. And we didn't have bottled water back then either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I know. Yeah. And any travel, did you travel anywhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was on the island quite a bit. Of course I would go periodically to the capital, Tegucigalpa. But in that year, you and I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I remember."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.028464381270285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was on the island quite a bit. Of course I would go periodically to the capital, Tegucigalpa. But in that year, you and I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I remember."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My good friend Barbara here, we took a trip. We were a little over a month. We went through, uh, we went to, we went to the Mayan ruins in northern Honduras and we went through Guatemala. We hit all the hotspots in Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By bus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By bus, and sometimes foot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And sometimes foot."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4760715347447615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My good friend Barbara here, we took a trip. We were a little over a month. We went through, uh, we went to, we went to the Mayan ruins in northern Honduras and we went through Guatemala. We hit all the hotspots in Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By bus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By bus, and sometimes foot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And sometimes foot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we came back through El Salvador. And I'll never forget that because we were in this little cheap hotel at night and there was like a gunfight in the street right in front of the hotel. Do you remember that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but I remember staying a night, I think it was the Hotel Bruno, if I remember right."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.973412816383068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By bus, and sometimes foot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And sometimes foot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we came back through El Salvador. And I'll never forget that because we were in this little cheap hotel at night and there was like a gunfight in the street right in front of the hotel. Do you remember that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but I remember staying a night, I think it was the Hotel Bruno, if I remember right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don't remember the gunfight?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't. I don't."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 5.526014240425631, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we came back through El Salvador. And I'll never forget that because we were in this little cheap hotel at night and there was like a gunfight in the street right in front of the hotel. Do you remember that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but I remember staying a night, I think it was the Hotel Bruno, if I remember right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don't remember the gunfight?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't. I don't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll never forget that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me. Sorry, we're laughing listener. Okay. I don't remember that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6955713782507018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don't remember the gunfight?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't. I don't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll never forget that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me. Sorry, we're laughing listener. Okay. I don't remember that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then we got on the bus the next day. We went through the northern portion of Nicaragua. You remember that? All those Nicaraguan young students were on the bus with us and they were so articulate. They had read Mein Kampf, they'd read all these political, philosophical books, and I was just so amazed. And there was the, you know, there was a revolution going on then and the guerrilla warfare, and we weren't supposed to go to Nicaragua. We kind of went through just a little bit of it and then we went back up to Honduras. So that was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I don't remember that part, but I remember being in El Salvador for a short time. The gunfight, no."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0932979978403723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then we got on the bus the next day. We went through the northern portion of Nicaragua. You remember that? All those Nicaraguan young students were on the bus with us and they were so articulate. They had read Mein Kampf, they'd read all these political, philosophical books, and I was just so amazed. And there was the, you know, there was a revolution going on then and the guerrilla warfare, and we weren't supposed to go to Nicaragua. We kind of went through just a little bit of it and then we went back up to Honduras. So that was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I don't remember that part, but I remember being in El Salvador for a short time. The gunfight, no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You don't remember the kids on the bus? Talking to them?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I don't."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.584318515852311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I don't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were like older teenagers. They were young."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some of them had, their families had sent them away during all the fighting and they were coming back. So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you know, we all remember different things."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.871465017613679, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were like older teenagers. They were young."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some of them had, their families had sent them away during all the fighting and they were coming back. So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you know, we all remember different things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We do, don't we? We really do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I know you've got many more stories you could tell. I don't want to finish the interview yet. Can you think of any other stories about your life and Coxen Hole? Because I've heard other stories I'm trying to think of."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1905166862374212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some of them had, their families had sent them away during all the fighting and they were coming back. So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you know, we all remember different things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We do, don't we? We really do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I know you've got many more stories you could tell. I don't want to finish the interview yet. Can you think of any other stories about your life and Coxen Hole? Because I've heard other stories I'm trying to think of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean just things that happened?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay, more stories about the clinic if we're doing okay with time."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.1193669962466415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't. I was a med surg nurse, and I didn't have any perinatal experience. I mean, I could teach, but as far as skills for that. I had never delivered a baby in my life nor seen a lot of deliveries. But anyway, I grabbed a medication that I had in the house called Methergine, which helps to contract the uterus and stop bleeding after a birth, and some syringes and some other things. And I didn't have any IVs, I remember, but so I ran down to the house and when I got there there were a few candles on and a kerosene lamp, and there was a 14 year old girl on the floor under newspapers with a baby that was, um, just the legs had been delivered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was, I just, the thing, the main thing I remember about her was she was so stoic. Everyone else was hysterical in the house, but she was so stoic. She wasn't crying. She didn't talk. She was, she was probably petrified."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But for a young teenage girl, I just, that just really struck me. I just remember how quiet she was. But I put gloves on and I couldn't get the baby out. I couldn't do it. And so I told the kids to go to, down the street. There was a man there who owned the pharmacy and he was known for being able to deliver babies. And I'm not sure why they didn't get him the first time instead of me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he was a pharmacist?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5354828480749538, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a pharmacist, but he also had delivered a lot of babies on the island, and they called him Doc Polo because of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Polo, P-O-L-O?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "P-O-L-O."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, he came and he twisted the baby around. And if I recall correctly, something cracked. And he got the baby out. Of course, it was dead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By using a lot of force."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8956578371295725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, he came and he twisted the baby around. And if I recall correctly, something cracked. And he got the baby out. Of course, it was dead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By using a lot of force."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and he kind of had to. We didn't have a way except airplanes to get to the mainland, and they didn't fly at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he did get the baby out and he did force the placental delivery. He just pulled it out. I remember being petrified that she was going to hemorrhage, but she didn't. And I did give her some Methergine and stayed for a while, cleaned her up. And it was just so, it was just so sad. That's one of the biggest things I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the baby died of course."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.106286485699525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and he kind of had to. We didn't have a way except airplanes to get to the mainland, and they didn't fly at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he did get the baby out and he did force the placental delivery. He just pulled it out. I remember being petrified that she was going to hemorrhage, but she didn't. And I did give her some Methergine and stayed for a while, cleaned her up. And it was just so, it was just so sad. That's one of the biggest things I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the baby died of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The baby was dead, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did the mother do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.600353686048796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The baby was dead, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did the mother do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The mother was okay. I was so afraid that she was going to hemorrhage. I was just so afraid that she's going to hemorrhage or have a fever later or. And I told her to come to the clinic the next day and she didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had heard that they did get her to the mainland later, is what I had heard. I hope they did, but, uh, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, one thing I was going to ask, were there, was there a hospital on the island?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.889281873387551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The mother was okay. I was so afraid that she was going to hemorrhage. I was just so afraid that she's going to hemorrhage or have a fever later or. And I told her to come to the clinic the next day and she didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had heard that they did get her to the mainland later, is what I had heard. I hope they did, but, uh, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, one thing I was going to ask, were there, was there a hospital on the island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Just the clinic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The one of, the Ministry of Health clinic?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.2103131926528343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had heard that they did get her to the mainland later, is what I had heard. I hope they did, but, uh, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, one thing I was going to ask, were there, was there a hospital on the island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Just the clinic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The one of, the Ministry of Health clinic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other stories that come to your mind?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3447924362809272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Just the clinic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The one of, the Ministry of Health clinic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other stories that come to your mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, another one was, um, there was a. I was going to the clinic one day and a man walked up to me and his arm was wrapped in a towel and he said, can you fix this? I cut myself. And I opened the towel and he had almost cut his arm off. And I was like, well, no, I can't fix this. And what are we going to do? You know, and I, I actually, I was able to stop some people, and there was a physician who was on sabbatical from the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6602375756554655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, another one was, um, there was a. I was going to the clinic one day and a man walked up to me and his arm was wrapped in a towel and he said, can you fix this? I cut myself. And I opened the towel and he had almost cut his arm off. And I was like, well, no, I can't fix this. And what are we going to do? You know, and I, I actually, I was able to stop some people, and there was a physician who was on sabbatical from the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I knew him. On the other side of the island at the time. And he had brought supplies and he had things with him. And so, fortunately, I was able to get a truck and get him over to the physician and he was able to at least stabilize him until we got him on a plane and got him to the mainland. And that was so scary. And what was so amazing was how, again, very stoic this fellow was. I mean, I would have been hysterical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, he had, it was a machete wound. There were so many machete wounds. And yeah, that was a very bad one also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said almost severed."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.277417799253039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, to me, yeah. I doubt it was because, you know, he really wasn't bleeding that badly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Otherwise, I would have had to have applied a tourniquet. He was not dripping blood. It was bad though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was more of the muscle that was so, that had been cut into. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you learned a lot. Now, some of your counterparts. I know the doctor left after five months. Sounds like the LVN, the licensed vocational nurse, was a help. You had a good relationship."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:543", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.5304642213922657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Otherwise, I would have had to have applied a tourniquet. He was not dripping blood. It was bad though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was more of the muscle that was so, that had been cut into. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you learned a lot. Now, some of your counterparts. I know the doctor left after five months. Sounds like the LVN, the licensed vocational nurse, was a help. You had a good relationship."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was good. She was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The dentist also?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7005158015469615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was more of the muscle that was so, that had been cut into. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you learned a lot. Now, some of your counterparts. I know the doctor left after five months. Sounds like the LVN, the licensed vocational nurse, was a help. You had a good relationship."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was good. She was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The dentist also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the dentist helped me so much. So much. And she also provided some friendship too. She was a really, you know, she was a very nice, happy, bouncy person. And she was only there six months though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, she wasn't there the whole time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:547", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8894620017188462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was good. She was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The dentist also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the dentist helped me so much. So much. And she also provided some friendship too. She was a really, you know, she was a very nice, happy, bouncy person. And she was only there six months though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, she wasn't there the whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she wasn't there the whole time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did a dentist come to replace her?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.099402224132051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the dentist helped me so much. So much. And she also provided some friendship too. She was a really, you know, she was a very nice, happy, bouncy person. And she was only there six months though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, she wasn't there the whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she wasn't there the whole time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did a dentist come to replace her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you really were alone."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:553", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3572866964593222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you really were alone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Thank goodness for the LPN."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your clinics? This is something I just thought of. Was your clinic stocked with some medications for the folks?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:557", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6756625882213854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your clinics? This is something I just thought of. Was your clinic stocked with some medications for the folks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had penicillin because, um, gonorrhea and syphilis were big problems. And I knew if a man came to the clinic, I knew what he was there for because otherwise they didn't come in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a vaccine of penicillin, I mean, a vaccine. A shot of penicillin."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:559", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8618473202459838, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had penicillin because, um, gonorrhea and syphilis were big problems. And I knew if a man came to the clinic, I knew what he was there for because otherwise they didn't come in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a vaccine of penicillin, I mean, a vaccine. A shot of penicillin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One in each hip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For one of those venereal diseases."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.0687192447177596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a vaccine of penicillin, I mean, a vaccine. A shot of penicillin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One in each hip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For one of those venereal diseases."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for those venereal diseases. And we had worm medicine and we had Flagyl for amoebas. And we had, um, we had some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aralen for malaria?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:565", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3194064749601968, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for those venereal diseases. And we had worm medicine and we had Flagyl for amoebas. And we had, um, we had some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aralen for malaria?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. Primaquine and chloroquine. We had them. Aralen. I don't think, I don't remember having Aralen. That was a preventative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But primaquine and chloroquine. And we had some other PO antibiotics. At this time, I don't remember what they were, but we didn't have a lot and we ran out at times too so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you mentioned that there was a pharmacist. I mean, he had his own private pharmacy. Doc Polo?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:569", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6288968826669095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But primaquine and chloroquine. And we had some other PO antibiotics. At this time, I don't remember what they were, but we didn't have a lot and we ran out at times too so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you mentioned that there was a pharmacist. I mean, he had his own private pharmacy. Doc Polo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Doc Polo, yeah. But, but he was not affiliated with the clinic. And at his pharmacy you could buy syringes, antibiotics, IVs, and find someone that could give you a shot of whatever you thought you needed or to give you some IV fluids and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really didn't have people come to me for that. You know, there were other ladies that, there were houses that said, se inyecto aqui."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us what that means, Donna."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:571", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8098854251854548, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Doc Polo, yeah. But, but he was not affiliated with the clinic. And at his pharmacy you could buy syringes, antibiotics, IVs, and find someone that could give you a shot of whatever you thought you needed or to give you some IV fluids and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really didn't have people come to me for that. You know, there were other ladies that, there were houses that said, se inyecto aqui."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us what that means, Donna."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That means \"I give shots here.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Se inyecto aqui."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.0109838057616165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really didn't have people come to me for that. You know, there were other ladies that, there were houses that said, se inyecto aqui."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us what that means, Donna."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That means \"I give shots here.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Se inyecto aqui."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. Yeah. But I can't remember anyone even coming to me and asking me at my house. It was always in the clinic setting, to give them like a penicillin shot or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So the kids, the people who came to your house sometimes on Sundays, as you said, were often little kids."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:575", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1233153397351294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That means \"I give shots here.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Se inyecto aqui."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. Yeah. But I can't remember anyone even coming to me and asking me at my house. It was always in the clinic setting, to give them like a penicillin shot or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So the kids, the people who came to your house sometimes on Sundays, as you said, were often little kids."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were usually kids. They were usually kids. It usually wasn't adults. The adults would come to the clinic on clinic hours, but the kids would just kind of show up and it was kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, I know that this is not part of the questions, but I remember you telling a story before. Didn't you even have a radio program? Did you? Sorry, listener for just, excuse us while we laugh a little bit. Wasn't there a radio program that you were on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2481281552612549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. Yeah. But I can't remember anyone even coming to me and asking me at my house. It was always in the clinic setting, to give them like a penicillin shot or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So the kids, the people who came to your house sometimes on Sundays, as you said, were often little kids."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were usually kids. They were usually kids. It usually wasn't adults. The adults would come to the clinic on clinic hours, but the kids would just kind of show up and it was kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, I know that this is not part of the questions, but I remember you telling a story before. Didn't you even have a radio program? Did you? Sorry, listener for just, excuse us while we laugh a little bit. Wasn't there a radio program that you were on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I kind of forgot that. Now that you mention it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about the radio program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:579", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3868090614013944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were usually kids. They were usually kids. It usually wasn't adults. The adults would come to the clinic on clinic hours, but the kids would just kind of show up and it was kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, I know that this is not part of the questions, but I remember you telling a story before. Didn't you even have a radio program? Did you? Sorry, listener for just, excuse us while we laugh a little bit. Wasn't there a radio program that you were on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I kind of forgot that. Now that you mention it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about the radio program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let me try to remember what that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a local station."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:581", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5408989571126603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I kind of forgot that. Now that you mention it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about the radio program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let me try to remember what that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a local station."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was health tidbits and just some health teaching. Like I believe I was just doing like little things like this is how you boil water. This is why you do it. This is why you wash your cabbage. And this is, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you come up with the topics yourself or did they say, I want you to talk about drinking safe water?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:585", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9023443914971114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was health tidbits and just some health teaching. Like I believe I was just doing like little things like this is how you boil water. This is why you do it. This is why you wash your cabbage. And this is, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you come up with the topics yourself or did they say, I want you to talk about drinking safe water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't, I don't recall doing it that many times and I believe I came up with the topics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you remember the radio station?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:587", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.002604879441235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't, I don't recall doing it that many times and I believe I came up with the topics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you remember the radio station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Radio Roatan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What does that mean in English?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:589", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1140054216013722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you remember the radio station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Radio Roatan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What does that mean in English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Radio Roatan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Radio. I sorry listener, I can't roll my Rs. Radio Roatan. I kind of did that right now."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:591", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2377838017793024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Radio Roatan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What does that mean in English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Radio Roatan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Radio. I sorry listener, I can't roll my Rs. Radio Roatan. I kind of did that right now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You did great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Was there, were there other activities that you did, um, you participated in that come to your mind now in the clinic?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:595", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5281281503448179, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You did great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Was there, were there other activities that you did, um, you participated in that come to your mind now in the clinic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, in the clinic?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One thing I did that I really was happy to do. The inside of the clinic needed to be painted so badly. And they, there was no money for it. The, I had written to the ministry to see if they would get someone to paint it and they didn't. The outside and the inside needed it. There was mold on the walls and there was, I mean, it was, it was dirty. It was really dirty. But I was able to go around and collect enough contributions from some of the businesses to buy paint. And there was a son of one of the patients who always kind of needed work. So he came and painted the whole inside of the clinic. We didn't get the outside painted, we've got the inside, and most of it at least. And then myself and two of the young ladies that worked there, we painted a really cute mural in the, on the wall in the waiting room. Yeah, it was a picture of the island with coconut tree and a rainbow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say that again?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:599", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8865779633886641, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One thing I did that I really was happy to do. The inside of the clinic needed to be painted so badly. And they, there was no money for it. The, I had written to the ministry to see if they would get someone to paint it and they didn't. The outside and the inside needed it. There was mold on the walls and there was, I mean, it was, it was dirty. It was really dirty. But I was able to go around and collect enough contributions from some of the businesses to buy paint. And there was a son of one of the patients who always kind of needed work. So he came and painted the whole inside of the clinic. We didn't get the outside painted, we've got the inside, and most of it at least. And then myself and two of the young ladies that worked there, we painted a really cute mural in the, on the wall in the waiting room. Yeah, it was a picture of the island with coconut tree and a rainbow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say that again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like, it was like a picture of the island beach, with the coconut trees and then a beautiful rainbow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was fun.\n\nBut as small as that sounds, it was a huge, huge deal, getting people to see the wisdom in making that place look clean. And we cleaned the floors and everything. And to get it painted, it just looked so much better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right. You know, another question I just thought of too. When women were pregnant, who delivered their babies generally?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:601", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0961977370985156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like, it was like a picture of the island beach, with the coconut trees and then a beautiful rainbow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was fun.\n\nBut as small as that sounds, it was a huge, huge deal, getting people to see the wisdom in making that place look clean. And we cleaned the floors and everything. And to get it painted, it just looked so much better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right. You know, another question I just thought of too. When women were pregnant, who delivered their babies generally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Midwives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so they had midwives."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:603", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3291085967761282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was fun.\n\nBut as small as that sounds, it was a huge, huge deal, getting people to see the wisdom in making that place look clean. And we cleaned the floors and everything. And to get it painted, it just looked so much better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right. You know, another question I just thought of too. When women were pregnant, who delivered their babies generally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Midwives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so they had midwives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a lot of midwives on the island and they were very good. And then Doc Polo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they trained?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:605", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5878984408623644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Midwives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so they had midwives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a lot of midwives on the island and they were very good. And then Doc Polo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they trained?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, they went to the mainland to get some training. They, they weren't nurses. They were just lay midwives, yeah. And then I'm not sure where Doc Polo got his training, but evidently he was pretty good and pretty, he delivered a lot of babies also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he a man from Roatan?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:611", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.3153613729250537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And actually, I became really good friends with his daughter, who had married a Canadian, and they had children and they lived not too far from my house. We became really good friends and I hung out with them a whole lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Let's see. Oh. Did you have any other jobs when you were in Roatan besides the clinic job?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:613", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4615126365833928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And actually, I became really good friends with his daughter, who had married a Canadian, and they had children and they lived not too far from my house. We became really good friends and I hung out with them a whole lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Let's see. Oh. Did you have any other jobs when you were in Roatan besides the clinic job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was a really full time job. However, I have to say that after I'd been there about a year and a half, I was really, as I said, very lonely. And I was working really hard too. I mean, I really worked. And there was a little yacht club that opened up not far up the road where."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A Honduran yacht club?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:615", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.623902929537103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Let's see. Oh. Did you have any other jobs when you were in Roatan besides the clinic job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was a really full time job. However, I have to say that after I'd been there about a year and a half, I was really, as I said, very lonely. And I was working really hard too. I mean, I really worked. And there was a little yacht club that opened up not far up the road where."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A Honduran yacht club?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Honduran owned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it was Honduran owned, okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:619", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0048184315272874, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Honduran owned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it was Honduran owned, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there were some, I think some other foreign investments in it too, but it was run by Hondurans. And so I knew a few of the fellows that were going to work there on the boats. And so I kind of went down there and hung out and I said, gosh, do you know what? I think I'm really sick of doing what I'm doing, so I'm going to have to quit the Peace Corps now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they gave me a job at the yacht club."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what did you do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:625", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7500938704078015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hostess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hostess, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to be the hostess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I sent the ministry of, I mean, I sent Ione, who was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Our program manager."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:627", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.0556598560086683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to be the hostess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I sent the ministry of, I mean, I sent Ione, who was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Our program manager."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Health program manager, a telegram. Everything was telegrams back then. And told her that I just couldn't continue in the Peace Corps. It was just, I was too lonely and I thought I would be less lonely working at the yacht club, I suppose. And so I sent her the telegram. I didn't hear back from her, and I started working at the yacht club. And as I was telling Barbara earlier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't show up for work at the clinic then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:633", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.819835193427528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I just, I think I gave them a week's notice or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But actually the LVN took over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So now she didn't know how to suture, but she could do a lot of things. But so I was working in the yacht club and it just hit me like a ton of bricks that that probably wasn't my cup of tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "May I ask why?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:637", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2590557943549727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So now she didn't know how to suture, but she could do a lot of things. But so I was working in the yacht club and it just hit me like a ton of bricks that that probably wasn't my cup of tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "May I ask why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, well, there were mainly Americans that were coming down to rent the yachts and sail. And I literally all I heard was complaining, like the lemons weren't fresh enough or they needed more limes or it was hot or the bed was uncomfortable. It was just, I just said, what am I doing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I telegram Ione back within like a week and a half, two weeks, something like that. And I said, you know what, I'm not going to quit the Peace Corps. And she telegrammed me back and said, oh, I was just waiting for that. I knew that you would come around and you had your little vacation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She did say that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:643", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.727099855082267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You had your vacation. And I said, yeah. I said, and I, and I think probably at that time I just needed a real vacation. I mean, we all do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all need breaks, and the loneliness was the hardest part of being in the Peace Corps. Even though I was around people that spoke English, it was still. It's hard to explain, but it was just I wasn't around my peer group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really missed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. When you had the Peace Corps volunteers come to stay with you, was that a big boost?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:649", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9973934911965252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would help, but it would just only be for a day or two. And they were gone most of the time snorkeling while I was at the clinic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I was very fastidious about the fact that I had a job and I couldn't just not show up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the clinic would be full of people with worms and amoebas and venereal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Venereal disease, yeah, okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:651", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1082149902183613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I was very fastidious about the fact that I had a job and I couldn't just not show up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the clinic would be full of people with worms and amoebas and venereal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Venereal disease, yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I probably didn't take as many breaks as I needed to. I felt just that they didn't have a doctor, so I needed to stay. And I remember Ione visited me and she said, you're taking this a little too seriously. You need more breaks, you need to take care of yourself too. And I knew, and I knew that, but I guess I needed someone to say the world is not going to fall apart if there's no one to take care of these patients this day, as long as it's not emergencies. And besides that, we didn't have a hospital. We didn't have an ER. You know, I just did the best I could so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it's amazing."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:655", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3681666545905693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I probably didn't take as many breaks as I needed to. I felt just that they didn't have a doctor, so I needed to stay. And I remember Ione visited me and she said, you're taking this a little too seriously. You need more breaks, you need to take care of yourself too. And I knew, and I knew that, but I guess I needed someone to say the world is not going to fall apart if there's no one to take care of these patients this day, as long as it's not emergencies. And besides that, we didn't have a hospital. We didn't have an ER. You know, I just did the best I could so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it's amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So, yeah, I had a little, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Break."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Detour. A little detour in the yacht club. I have to say, it was kind of fun sailing on the yachts because I could sail on the yachts as much as I wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Oh, you have a wonderful collection of stories. I'd encourage you to write a book about this."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:661", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8767718169966656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, just."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll get right on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before I, you're going to have to really be the one to the impetus to help me remember these stories so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, um. I just have a few more questions, but if you, um, are you doing okay?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:663", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.085302018885184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll get right on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before I, you're going to have to really be the one to the impetus to help me remember these stories so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, um. I just have a few more questions, but if you, um, are you doing okay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The end of your tour, okay. You went home, you said July of 1980. So including training, you were there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:667", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.22876792454961012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The end of your tour, okay. You went home, you said July of 1980. So including training, you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years and a month, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they had the option for leaving a couple of months early and still being given completion of service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. Why did you decide to leave maybe a little bit early?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:669", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.25418658283290013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years and a month, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they had the option for leaving a couple of months early and still being given completion of service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. Why did you decide to leave maybe a little bit early?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Enough was enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Enough was enough."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:671", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.28242953648100017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they had the option for leaving a couple of months early and still being given completion of service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. Why did you decide to leave maybe a little bit early?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Enough was enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Enough was enough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Enough was enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:681", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.47829690000000014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was pretty emotionally drained after the end of that too. I mean, I really worked hard also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved what I did and I learned a lot. And I, and I will say this, I have never laughed as much in my life as I did the two years I was there. It was just, people just said exactly what they thought in a very funny way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People did. There was nothing politically correct about anyone there. I mean, it was just. It was just, it was, it was a non-stop comedy really. We had, for example, the suicide dog, the village suicide dog. Evidently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't. That sounds interesting. Can you tell us about that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:691", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not like, uh, it was odd."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'll never forget. And actually, I have a picture of you with me walking in a parade during one of the elections that we had down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Roatan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm pretty, I'll have to show you the picture. But we had an election and I'll never forget it. You had to vote or you were to get arrested. Remember? It was mandatory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To vote, or otherwise you'd get arrested. I kind of forgot that myself."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:697", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'll never forget there were busses picking people up to vote. I remember I was downtown watching the busses pass by. So you'd see a bus go by with people on it that I knew, and they would give them chicken and beer and everything in the bus, and then they'd vote. And then a little bit later you'd see them on another bus voting again, going to vote again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or trying to vote again, getting more chicken and beer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had a parade. And I remember Bruno, the town drunk, was in front of the parade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was the leader."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:699", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or trying to vote again, getting more chicken and beer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had a parade. And I remember Bruno, the town drunk, was in front of the parade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was the leader."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the banner of that party. I forget the name of the party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Liberales, I think."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:701", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had a parade. And I remember Bruno, the town drunk, was in front of the parade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was the leader."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the banner of that party. I forget the name of the party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Liberales, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I forgot the other one."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00072:703", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the banner of that party. I forget the name of the party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Liberales, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I forgot the other one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nacionales? I'm not sure."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00947:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 34.2924767269438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked up until three weeks before she was born. When it got to that point, we called the computers over with the machines. There was a big computers office; two of them, in fact, in 7 X 10 [Building]. They called special ones to come over with their machines, so I didn’t do the final thing. By that time I knew that it was true, because I had tested everything coming down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was still working on the sound barrier?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as I knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know a lot? Did they tell you a lot about what they were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They just gave you the equations?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00947:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.476657296624786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was entirely yours. When the engineer that you worked for gave it to you, that was yours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a lot of work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You knew those equations. I felt sorry for one older woman that was in there, because she would ask me things. She was real nice, but she—I had forgotten about her—but she didn’t have the equations at her fingertips the way, when you first come out of college, you were really fresh. I had a good college education too, plus I’d had three years of physics, even physics problems. Those physics problems did help me too, with that background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went to work there, did you have plans to stay for awhile, until you met Hal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came because it was a job, and I didn’t want to go to Dahlgren. I’d heard about that; a friend of mine went to Dahlgren. I guess there were about 15 or 20 math majors. There were only two others I was friends of; one went to Dahlgren and the other was Mary Houbolt. It was a strange mixture of us. Some of them came up here too, and we were never friends, even up here. I could speak to them, but they weren’t the same type. It was a really wonderful background to come in on, because they had prepared you for facing almost anything that could be thrown at you. Let’s see, what are some more questions on here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have some more, Sandra ?\n\nIt’s interesting, because it was an interesting time when you started working there. As you said, it was after the war, but it was also a time when a lot of women, when they went into the workforce, if they got married, or if they had children, they weren’t allowed to work anymore."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00947:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 29.41850810736087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You knew those equations. I felt sorry for one older woman that was in there, because she would ask me things. She was real nice, but she—I had forgotten about her—but she didn’t have the equations at her fingertips the way, when you first come out of college, you were really fresh. I had a good college education too, plus I’d had three years of physics, even physics problems. Those physics problems did help me too, with that background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went to work there, did you have plans to stay for awhile, until you met Hal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came because it was a job, and I didn’t want to go to Dahlgren. I’d heard about that; a friend of mine went to Dahlgren. I guess there were about 15 or 20 math majors. There were only two others I was friends of; one went to Dahlgren and the other was Mary Houbolt. It was a strange mixture of us. Some of them came up here too, and we were never friends, even up here. I could speak to them, but they weren’t the same type. It was a really wonderful background to come in on, because they had prepared you for facing almost anything that could be thrown at you. Let’s see, what are some more questions on here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have some more, Sandra ?\n\nIt’s interesting, because it was an interesting time when you started working there. As you said, it was after the war, but it was also a time when a lot of women, when they went into the workforce, if they got married, or if they had children, they weren’t allowed to work anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s what I wanted to tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I’m glad I thought of it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00947:42", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.2857919636654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would take a job from a man, and a man was head of the household. Hal and I were married, by the way, for 64 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, because he was—in three more months it would’ve been 64 years when he died. In three more months, he would’ve been 90. The years passed, and we had good years. There’s some tough times you go through sometimes, but there again we had a good life. And this was a wonderful area to raise children in, because it was so safe, and it was so protected. They could ride their bike up to the country club. There was swimming, and the Riverside school was here and it was one of the best. Then after sixth grade we sent them to private school, because they told us there that we didn’t have a choice with our daughter. She was so smart; she really needed to go there. She was accepted immediately by Middlebury [College, Vermont], and then also by Virginia College too. She met her husband at Middlebury, so that was her destiny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work after you left NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I was so busy with trying to keep the house together while he was building around us. All these cabinets, everything—the beams, all. He did, and he was about 6’1”, but he was wiry, and he was strong. He would lift things like that, but his mathematical sense was absolutely unbelievable. It got to be, in later years, that he would say to me, “You were a math major?” It was just funny, because when you get out, it doesn’t take long for it to leave you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned it’s a language, and it’s like learning a language, and you’re away from it, you forget it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00947:44", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.428657737406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, because he was—in three more months it would’ve been 64 years when he died. In three more months, he would’ve been 90. The years passed, and we had good years. There’s some tough times you go through sometimes, but there again we had a good life. And this was a wonderful area to raise children in, because it was so safe, and it was so protected. They could ride their bike up to the country club. There was swimming, and the Riverside school was here and it was one of the best. Then after sixth grade we sent them to private school, because they told us there that we didn’t have a choice with our daughter. She was so smart; she really needed to go there. She was accepted immediately by Middlebury [College, Vermont], and then also by Virginia College too. She met her husband at Middlebury, so that was her destiny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work after you left NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I was so busy with trying to keep the house together while he was building around us. All these cabinets, everything—the beams, all. He did, and he was about 6’1”, but he was wiry, and he was strong. He would lift things like that, but his mathematical sense was absolutely unbelievable. It got to be, in later years, that he would say to me, “You were a math major?” It was just funny, because when you get out, it doesn’t take long for it to leave you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned it’s a language, and it’s like learning a language, and you’re away from it, you forget it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you do. Are there other things? Let’s see, Pearl Harbor had happened when I was in high school. I remember that, so all this had happened. What are some of the things here? I’m sorry; I’ve been so jumping around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you gave great information."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00947:46", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.809619708228887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I was so busy with trying to keep the house together while he was building around us. All these cabinets, everything—the beams, all. He did, and he was about 6’1”, but he was wiry, and he was strong. He would lift things like that, but his mathematical sense was absolutely unbelievable. It got to be, in later years, that he would say to me, “You were a math major?” It was just funny, because when you get out, it doesn’t take long for it to leave you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned it’s a language, and it’s like learning a language, and you’re away from it, you forget it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you do. Are there other things? Let’s see, Pearl Harbor had happened when I was in high school. I remember that, so all this had happened. What are some of the things here? I’m sorry; I’ve been so jumping around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you gave great information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are so many things intertwined with each other that it was hard to separate them out.\\n\\n It was a good place to come to work, and my father was just thrilled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to see them much once you came up here? Did you get to go home?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00947:48", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.344021898032096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you do. Are there other things? Let’s see, Pearl Harbor had happened when I was in high school. I remember that, so all this had happened. What are some of the things here? I’m sorry; I’ve been so jumping around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you gave great information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are so many things intertwined with each other that it was hard to separate them out.\\n\\n It was a good place to come to work, and my father was just thrilled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to see them much once you came up here? Did you get to go home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because you didn’t travel as much. There again, I could—after Hal and I were married, he’d take us down and we’d maybe stay for a couple of weeks. Then they would come up here sometimes. You didn’t travel and talk on the phone then like you do now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, being so connected."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00947:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.160024331146772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are so many things intertwined with each other that it was hard to separate them out.\\n\\n It was a good place to come to work, and my father was just thrilled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to see them much once you came up here? Did you get to go home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because you didn’t travel as much. There again, I could—after Hal and I were married, he’d take us down and we’d maybe stay for a couple of weeks. Then they would come up here sometimes. You didn’t travel and talk on the phone then like you do now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, being so connected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the war, I would have to ride the bus home from Greensboro. Had to go to Concord because of gas rationing. I was lucky to run into Hal, because that was a strange thing—I’d never had anything like that happen. It happened right away; I clicked with him too. But when I tell the story, he’d say, “See? I didn’t have a chance?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mathematically figured it out."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00947:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 31.28891592349641, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because you didn’t travel as much. There again, I could—after Hal and I were married, he’d take us down and we’d maybe stay for a couple of weeks. Then they would come up here sometimes. You didn’t travel and talk on the phone then like you do now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, being so connected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the war, I would have to ride the bus home from Greensboro. Had to go to Concord because of gas rationing. I was lucky to run into Hal, because that was a strange thing—I’d never had anything like that happen. It happened right away; I clicked with him too. But when I tell the story, he’d say, “See? I didn’t have a chance?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mathematically figured it out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I already had it all figured out, had him roped in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking when the sound barrier finally was broken; you must’ve felt some pride knowing you had something to do with that. Even way back when."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00947:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.4321288038849, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the war, I would have to ride the bus home from Greensboro. Had to go to Concord because of gas rationing. I was lucky to run into Hal, because that was a strange thing—I’d never had anything like that happen. It happened right away; I clicked with him too. But when I tell the story, he’d say, “See? I didn’t have a chance?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mathematically figured it out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I already had it all figured out, had him roped in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking when the sound barrier finally was broken; you must’ve felt some pride knowing you had something to do with that. Even way back when."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Of course, Gloria’s husband was the top test pilot [Robert A. Champine]. We didn’t like test pilots, and you know what? When the astronauts came and we had them here, we thought they were all crazy. I had astronauts in my living room and never got a signature or anything. We didn’t have any idea that they were going to the Moon. The children say—David’s the young one, the youngest one—and he said, “You mean I sat on John Glenn’s lap and you didn’t get a picture?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A picture or anything?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00947:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 33.813476448761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I already had it all figured out, had him roped in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking when the sound barrier finally was broken; you must’ve felt some pride knowing you had something to do with that. Even way back when."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Of course, Gloria’s husband was the top test pilot [Robert A. Champine]. We didn’t like test pilots, and you know what? When the astronauts came and we had them here, we thought they were all crazy. I had astronauts in my living room and never got a signature or anything. We didn’t have any idea that they were going to the Moon. The children say—David’s the young one, the youngest one—and he said, “You mean I sat on John Glenn’s lap and you didn’t get a picture?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A picture or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, we were friends of the couple that were kind of in charge of them. They would have parties. Then all of a sudden, everybody was whisked off because of the President at that time, whisked off to Texas. Good friends left, and in fact some of our best friends ended up down there. It was David’s godparents, and it’s hard to keep up. And by that time, Hal was not with NACA so we didn’t go to the parties and things. In fact, now when they have the reunions we didn’t go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about your interest in sailing. Did your husband sail much or do much with Bob [Robert R.] Gilruth?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00947:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a busy time, but I’m sorry—I had it worked out more in my mind, but when you start telling it—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I think it’s there. Then when you get the transcript, if there are things that you think of, you can pencil it in and we can always add."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know one time I saw Ken Margolis out in the yard, so I stopped. I was so glad to see him. I said, “I want to tell you Ken,” I said, “My daughter married a Jewish husband. He’s a doctor,” and I said, “I just love him. He is wonderful.”\\n\\n He said, “My son married a Gentile girl, and I can’t stand her.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s funny how life all works out, doesn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it is, but that whole section of stability analysis was Jewish. They were smart guys. Leonard Sternfield was just the sweetest guy, and nice-looking guy. He had a child who ended up a very outstanding pianist, I understand. He would start shaving on Friday early, because he always left before sundown. He kept up with the time. He would have that already prepared and ready to leave, and that was something that you’d admire him for, because he was just a really genuinely nice person. These other two were just crude."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s amazing how many things you learn about people by just working with them, and being with them every day."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00909:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 43.490295263321016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and that’s a sad picture when you go to the second slide, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Would you like to talk about that for a moment? As you’re going back through the list, because you had your hands in so many, is there a favorite one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Originally I was really enthused about UARS because it was an integrated satellite, and it was going to measure a lot of things and really contribute to the ozone issue to hopefully define it to the point that there would be no doubt that there was an ozone reduction. We got to that point, and then we verified it. That was a lot of satisfaction because really this is the second thing I’d ever done with satellites. The first one was the solar constant measurement on Solar Max [Solar Maximum Satellite] mission. Of the ten solar constants instruments, that have flown since SMM [Solar Maximum Mission], I may have been the selection official on most of them. [I wasn’t the selection official on the first one, but it was my recommendation]. So just measuring a solar constant to a precision of one tenth of a percent, over this period of time, that’s pretty neat too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty amazing, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Over 20-something years. It was from ’76. Yes, that is a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good investment."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00909:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.053631000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes!!!!."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We don’t know how much yet in the United States, but from what you’re saying, it’s increasing throughout the world. How is that going to change when these other countries start taking the lead in putting up these satellites?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s going to make the United States look very bad, I think. In fact I expect it to have very large negative impacts upon our economy, and our lifestyle. We really need more information to better predict and evaluate droughts, floods, weather events, hurricanes, improved long-term impact analyses on crop production, energy production, water availability, etc., etc.\\n\\n We probably will still have a polar platform for weather and a geostationary platform for weather. Those are NOAA-funded instruments. We’ll have a few research instrument satellites. The rate things are going, and the cost overruns that have been experienced in recent years, there are fifteen satellites proposed in the decadal survey. Now a decadal survey means to me ten years. Well, my estimate is that based on the funds that are available and the complexity of the missions, we’ll be lucky to fly four in the next ten years. Maybe five, but I think four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will it be difficult to pick which four?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have already supposedly picked which four, but they’re not necessarily the same first four that I would pick if I were doing it. I would have lobbied very hard to do something different than what the decadal survey is, because my idea of Earth Science is making enough measurements at once so that you can understand what you’re doing, rather than flying one instrument at a time every three to five years to demonstrate it will make a measurement, which is the approach that I think the decadal survey has proposed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I liked your statement yesterday to us in the end, when you said that it was important to go measure and then try to learn from what those measurements were."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00909:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.059590000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s going to make the United States look very bad, I think. In fact I expect it to have very large negative impacts upon our economy, and our lifestyle. We really need more information to better predict and evaluate droughts, floods, weather events, hurricanes, improved long-term impact analyses on crop production, energy production, water availability, etc., etc.\\n\\n We probably will still have a polar platform for weather and a geostationary platform for weather. Those are NOAA-funded instruments. We’ll have a few research instrument satellites. The rate things are going, and the cost overruns that have been experienced in recent years, there are fifteen satellites proposed in the decadal survey. Now a decadal survey means to me ten years. Well, my estimate is that based on the funds that are available and the complexity of the missions, we’ll be lucky to fly four in the next ten years. Maybe five, but I think four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will it be difficult to pick which four?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have already supposedly picked which four, but they’re not necessarily the same first four that I would pick if I were doing it. I would have lobbied very hard to do something different than what the decadal survey is, because my idea of Earth Science is making enough measurements at once so that you can understand what you’re doing, rather than flying one instrument at a time every three to five years to demonstrate it will make a measurement, which is the approach that I think the decadal survey has proposed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I liked your statement yesterday to us in the end, when you said that it was important to go measure and then try to learn from what those measurements were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well that’s true, because frequently we know what we want to measure, but we frequently find out what we want to measure is not quite what we wanted in order to understand or predict the phenomena that we’re interested in, and what we get is maybe sometimes a lot better than what we set out to do, and sometimes its worse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have an interest to become very involved with the next 10 years?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00909:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.955100000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have already supposedly picked which four, but they’re not necessarily the same first four that I would pick if I were doing it. I would have lobbied very hard to do something different than what the decadal survey is, because my idea of Earth Science is making enough measurements at once so that you can understand what you’re doing, rather than flying one instrument at a time every three to five years to demonstrate it will make a measurement, which is the approach that I think the decadal survey has proposed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I liked your statement yesterday to us in the end, when you said that it was important to go measure and then try to learn from what those measurements were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well that’s true, because frequently we know what we want to measure, but we frequently find out what we want to measure is not quite what we wanted in order to understand or predict the phenomena that we’re interested in, and what we get is maybe sometimes a lot better than what we set out to do, and sometimes its worse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have an interest to become very involved with the next 10 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m probably not going to live for the next 10 years. You’ve got to remember, I am over 70 now, so I’m lucky I’m still moving. But no, I just don’t think I would have the energy to do what I did 15 years ago. It took a lot of long days and a lot of trips, a lot of meetings, and a lot of being away from home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think is the greatest accomplishment that you were able to achieve while you were in your field?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00909:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.839000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well that’s true, because frequently we know what we want to measure, but we frequently find out what we want to measure is not quite what we wanted in order to understand or predict the phenomena that we’re interested in, and what we get is maybe sometimes a lot better than what we set out to do, and sometimes its worse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have an interest to become very involved with the next 10 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m probably not going to live for the next 10 years. You’ve got to remember, I am over 70 now, so I’m lucky I’m still moving. But no, I just don’t think I would have the energy to do what I did 15 years ago. It took a lot of long days and a lot of trips, a lot of meetings, and a lot of being away from home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think is the greatest accomplishment that you were able to achieve while you were in your field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "EOS and EOSDIS, and providing the opportunity for hundreds of young scientists to become seriously involved in trying to better understand how the Earth System behaves.\\n\\n It’s been fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even the hard days, I guess, were fun?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00909:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 8.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m probably not going to live for the next 10 years. You’ve got to remember, I am over 70 now, so I’m lucky I’m still moving. But no, I just don’t think I would have the energy to do what I did 15 years ago. It took a lot of long days and a lot of trips, a lot of meetings, and a lot of being away from home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think is the greatest accomplishment that you were able to achieve while you were in your field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "EOS and EOSDIS, and providing the opportunity for hundreds of young scientists to become seriously involved in trying to better understand how the Earth System behaves.\\n\\n It’s been fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even the hard days, I guess, were fun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Some of them weren’t as much fun as others. But no, EOS has turned out to be not as good as I wanted it to be, but it’s turned out a lot more information than I ever thought would come to pass in my lifetime. It worked. It’s the nearest thing we’ve ever had to having an integrated observing system for a good portion of Earth. Not all of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that you now, in your spare time, work with students at schools. Do you have an opportunity to share with them some of what they can’t see up in the sky?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 28.095706716569673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the consistent things were getting the teacher's approval and by doing well in class and getting my parents approval for having done that. So it was a pretty small world that I lived in and it was comfortable, it was predictable. And I did that. But the other thing that was kind of seeping in on a much less, or an even less conscious level I'll say, was adapting each time we moved. To different people, to different places, to slightly different, you know, geographic environments, slightly different social environments. I was completely unaware of at the time as a kid just, you know, a new place and here you are, let's go do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the predictable part of it was school. To some extent, kids were predictable, but they were always new kids to me until I got used to them. And then very soon afterward, we moved again. And so that's part of how it works. The first time my eyes were opened to things being different in post-World War suburban America was when my dad had a choice. My dad and my mom, because they made the choice together, had the choice whether to stay in the United States and go into management, or go into kind of a mixture of sales and management by working for, working as a liaison between IBM World Trade in Europe and domestic IBM. Now these days, you just do it in a few keystrokes or by Skype or something, but no such thing then. And the computers weren't thought of as personal back then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My dad once showed me around one of the places that he worked and was just huge air-conditioned rooms with spools of tape going, you know, 24/7."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So which did they choose?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.73347972094605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they chose to go to Europe. And where are we going to live in Europe? Well, it should be centrally located. OK, how about Switzerland? Switzerland would be good. France would be nice, but France was too expensive. And so that was the choice that was made. The next choice was, and I didn't even see him making this choice because I was presented with the choice. I was ten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Public schools or American schools? Well, you might as well go to the public schools, the Swiss have very good schools. And the kid, the boys can learn the language. So we did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so I took 25 Berlitz lessons during our month or so of transition before the house was ready for us to move into, which my dad had found because mom was staying with us, you know? So, you know, I thought I was all ready because I didn't know anything about foreign languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. With your 25 lessons."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 27.841927417815793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the result was I entered fourth grade when it was already, so this would have been September, October, it was already kind of halfway done. I was blessed in having Miss Kliner as a teacher. She was terrific. And I, you know, I didn't process it that way, but I knew it, you know, at a gut level. She'd go out of her way and her English was pretty good. You know, she go out of the way to, but she didn't teach me. I was part of the class and you're going to learn stuff in German, here you go, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had this constant supportive environment that was also challenging, and I learned German pretty well, and I learned Swiss German pretty well. At one point, I think during our second or maybe our last year there, my mom was really sick and couldn't go shopping. So I went along with my dad and he did the shopping, but he needed an interpreter because he didn't speak German. And so we're in the, we're at the butcher shop and the butcher's slicing the meat and he says, hey, kid, where did you learn to speak English like that? So that was pretty satisfying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I said, Ich bin ein Amerikaner, you know. So anyway, that's how that went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This would have been in the mid fifties then, '54 or '55?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.49103046423977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had this constant supportive environment that was also challenging, and I learned German pretty well, and I learned Swiss German pretty well. At one point, I think during our second or maybe our last year there, my mom was really sick and couldn't go shopping. So I went along with my dad and he did the shopping, but he needed an interpreter because he didn't speak German. And so we're in the, we're at the butcher shop and the butcher's slicing the meat and he says, hey, kid, where did you learn to speak English like that? So that was pretty satisfying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I said, Ich bin ein Amerikaner, you know. So anyway, that's how that went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This would have been in the mid fifties then, '54 or '55?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "'56 to 50, uh. October. Now what? September, October '56 to I think May of '59. So yeah. And then when I came back, boy, it was a different world, you know, what are all these people doing, you had to have chinos, you had to have penny loafers, and the whole nine yards. I was 13, I had just turned 13 when we got back. And, you know, faced once again, the new environment, new kids, new things to adjust to, in particular now clothes. Big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right. For a teenager."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.716091171796666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And girls are beginning to be kind of interesting in a way that I hadn't known before. Didn't quite get it for, well, you can, that's an interesting discussion, how long did it take to get girls? I'm still learning. But now we had different teachers for different subjects. Mr. Mahone For English. Dave Johnson from Minnesota, it turns out. This is in New York now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, well. Where were we? Uh. Chappaqua in Westchester County. Before it became really hoity toity. And you know, once again, predictably, I knew how to play the schoolboy game by now, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it wasn't really a game. I took it pretty seriously. But, you know, I knew what I had to do and what I didn't have to do. And so I did OK. And by the time I got there, so I went into eighth grade. Skipped most of seventh grade, it turns out, because they start school in Switzerland a year behind. But it turns out that they pack in more. And so I was pretty OK in eighth grade. That finished without incident pretty much. And I went on to high school and did the college prep business and did pretty well in everything. And took French as my language and got that under my belt. My French teachers, there are a lot of really good teachers there. But he had us reading Emile Zola in the original French in fourth year in high school, which was pretty fancy. So, prompt me. What more? So what else do you need?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when did you first hear about Peace Corps? And how did you come to decide that that was a route for you to take?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 27.857172948935627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I graduated from high school in '64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And by then, we had had actually Josh White, the folk singer, came and did a performance in our high school gym, which was kind of a big deal at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And things were beginning to fray a bit around the edges. The post-World War II consensus was beginning to fray, and I was maturing into that ferment as it was going on. Civil rights. We had, our cleaning lady was pretty predictably always a black woman after we got back. And my mother was very sympathetic to the civil rights movement. I don't, I'm pretty sure she didn't march or protest. That wasn't her style. She born in 1920, so what do you expect. But it was a big deal. Not something that had a direct effect on my life. I just kind of heard about it and followed it along in this kind of separate strand of my consciousness, it was becoming more conscious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Become more socially conscious."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.706684429266975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so. And once I got to Wesleyan University in Middletown, Connecticut, there were young black men there who wanted an African, an Afro-American studies department. And they sat in at the president's office. Now, this is a college at the time, it was all men. It got gender integrated in the year after I graduated. But [coughs], excuse me. But it was just, I hadn't. I hadn't had any direct interaction with anybody other than white people when I was in high school, except for Gary Kaneshiro, who was Hawaiian. Japanese Hawaiian, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And God help me, like everybody else, I called him pineapple. You know, yellow from the tropics, I guess. And it didn't even occur to me that it could possibly be offensive. It's just what people call them. And he was very good natured about it. I don't, and I don't know what happened to him. There was another kid in our class, Ernie Chu, who was Chinese American, but I think his folks had been born here. But my exposure to people, anybody other than European American, was virtually nil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until I got to college. And it was like, wow. Not only are they from all over the place, but they're from all different kinds of ethnic and cultural backgrounds, all different kinds. We didn't have Somalis, you know, and we didn't have, um, I don't think we had Koreans. But there was a smattering of people from around the world, and that made things a little more interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that kind of make you get interested more in other countries than Europe and America?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.6826946903525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I already had that interest, but not. Not as one of the guiding principles for my academic life. So, I mean, my life was in two parts in college, as it often is with people, academics and partying. Sometimes the partying won out. Sometimes the academics won out. And then when you throw in, beginning in 1966, just after I turned 20, when you throw in marijuana, then things all of a sudden get really interesting. And so, you know, the hand in front of your face becomes interesting and your perspective kind of gets foreshortened a little bit occasionally. So, you know, that's fine. It also gets extended and bent occasionally. So all those things are part of it. But no, I wouldn't say so. Then, of course, as I moved closer to graduation, I'd registered for the draft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so I think we're covering most of, some of the stuff in the earlier questions anyway. But as the draft loomed, I had already decided, partly because of the campus culture, partly because of the generational thing, that the Vietnam War was just, it was hypocritical, it was immoral, and maybe illegal. And I wasn't going to have any part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my father, who believed in doing your duty to God and country as well as your family, you know, he wasn't a two-dimensional person, but he was very upset with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you wouldn't enlist or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.3973864065192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I registered for the draft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't want to go and I didn't register for the draft until I lost my 2-S deferment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I don't, I don't know if they have that anymore, but that meant if you were a college kid, you got a deferment until you're done with college. And of course, that favored white kids, which is where that expression comes from, or part of the demographic reason and cultural reason, that the expression is that the Vietnam War was a white man's war against yellow people fought by black people. And as the decades have passed, I see more and more how that was just exactly true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So did you, uh, was Peace Corps a way out of the draft for you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.35133421493486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's Chris's mom. So we met at this party, and the party was, eh, the party was OK, but wow, that Sally Brown. She just caught my eye, you know? And I apparently caught hers. And so we began an intense romance and decided we loved each other. And in the meantime, staging had started, or I think, I don't know, staging or pre-staging. No, I think it was staging. I think I went to the initial staging in San Francisco for Fiji III."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the guy. Went to the screening interview. It became very quickly evident to both of us at the screening interview that I wasn't ready to go, and I wanted to go, if I did at all, with Sally, which necessitated getting married and her applying. So long story short, we did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then we left. We left our honeymoon early after having gotten married in late September in Syracuse. We left our honeymoon. So this is 1969 now, right? We left our honeymoon early to go to our, not our honeymoon, our reception, our wedding reception early, to catch the train across Canada to go to Banff and Jasper before we flew down to staging in San Francisco."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So Peace Corps was very accommodating."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.24856075917884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then we left. We left our honeymoon early after having gotten married in late September in Syracuse. We left our honeymoon. So this is 1969 now, right? We left our honeymoon early to go to our, not our honeymoon, our reception, our wedding reception early, to catch the train across Canada to go to Banff and Jasper before we flew down to staging in San Francisco."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So Peace Corps was very accommodating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They said, well, look, you really want to. They found out. The other thing they found out was that I was interested in teaching. Said, look, Fiji IV is a teaching group. It's going to be, it's being put together as a teaching, what they call them, group or whatever, and it is being designed for couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because there have been some blowback about single people not being able to stick it out in the more remote parts of Fiji. And that did happen in the place that we wound up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So there were quite a few couples in your group."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.720623065754266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They said, well, look, you really want to. They found out. The other thing they found out was that I was interested in teaching. Said, look, Fiji IV is a teaching group. It's going to be, it's being put together as a teaching, what they call them, group or whatever, and it is being designed for couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because there have been some blowback about single people not being able to stick it out in the more remote parts of Fiji. And that did happen in the place that we wound up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So there were quite a few couples in your group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, God, yes. Yeah. It wasn't only couples. There were lots of single people too. There was, you know, I suppose if you went and, if you went like Jim Kalowski was in our group, whom I saw last night and sat with. He's from the next town over, it turns out. And we had known each other from high school football having been on rival teams. Um. But, uh, what was the thread?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Couples in your group."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.356247850838074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because there have been some blowback about single people not being able to stick it out in the more remote parts of Fiji. And that did happen in the place that we wound up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So there were quite a few couples in your group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, God, yes. Yeah. It wasn't only couples. There were lots of single people too. There was, you know, I suppose if you went and, if you went like Jim Kalowski was in our group, whom I saw last night and sat with. He's from the next town over, it turns out. And we had known each other from high school football having been on rival teams. Um. But, uh, what was the thread?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Couples in your group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Couples, right. Yeah. If you wanted to see exactly how many there were, and this is beyond, probably beyond your job description. It's all volunteer anyway, right? But."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've got your mug book."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.173608723153414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, God, yes. Yeah. It wasn't only couples. There were lots of single people too. There was, you know, I suppose if you went and, if you went like Jim Kalowski was in our group, whom I saw last night and sat with. He's from the next town over, it turns out. And we had known each other from high school football having been on rival teams. Um. But, uh, what was the thread?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Couples in your group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Couples, right. Yeah. If you wanted to see exactly how many there were, and this is beyond, probably beyond your job description. It's all volunteer anyway, right? But."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've got your mug book."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, right. Well, then you can figure that out. Yeah. And I don't know, I would guess probably about half of us. Middle. A little more, a little less than half. Probably married couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, was Fiji a preference? When you applied did you state a preference?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.96741817673261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, right. Well, then you can figure that out. Yeah. And I don't know, I would guess probably about half of us. Middle. A little more, a little less than half. Probably married couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, was Fiji a preference? When you applied did you state a preference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You got to state a preference. Are there any, and I think it was by country or by geographic area. And so I don't know if I said Fiji or if I said South Pacific or what I said, but they gave me. When they offered me Fiji IV, they had already offered me Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the community development, ag, whatever it was that I turned down. So that was, so I had made that preference known already. And Sally was much taken with my idealism. Things don't always last, but. So she said, sure, let's do it. That's cool. I'm down with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you know anything about Fiji before that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.18602019636957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You got to state a preference. Are there any, and I think it was by country or by geographic area. And so I don't know if I said Fiji or if I said South Pacific or what I said, but they gave me. When they offered me Fiji IV, they had already offered me Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the community development, ag, whatever it was that I turned down. So that was, so I had made that preference known already. And Sally was much taken with my idealism. Things don't always last, but. So she said, sure, let's do it. That's cool. I'm down with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you know anything about Fiji before that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I figured we'd learned something about it in training. And we did. But there's nothing like direct experience. And that was, that was amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, you guys didn't train in country, did you? Where did you do your training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 21.489739638367034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, all of our training. Well, yeah, I would say all of our training, all three months of it, were in Hawaii and we were in Hilo on the Big Island. And it was a beautiful place. First time I had ever seen a banyan tree. And there was, it had been an old hospital converted to a training center for the Peace Corps. And so it had kind of dormitories that previously probably had been sick wing, but whatever. And it had this nice garden or grounds outside, this humongous banyan tree. And I'd never seen one before. And I just, I was taken with it. Plus I was taken with the program, the fact that I was going to do something, that the government was investing in me. You hearing this? That the government was investing in me to go forth and not exactly bring enlightenment to the heathen, but an idealistic, more open-minded approach to the same thing.\n\nSo, I mean, parenthetically I have to say, I think a lot of what we did was enlightened colonialism. And that's, and you can argue both ways on that. Yes, we did, but we were giving them real life skills and all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we'll get to that eventually I suppose. But and then beyond the banyan tree, you took a little pass and it went to some pools above a waterfall and you could just, you could dunk in the pools and cool off on the rocks. And it was just, it was a fabulous. We didn't do a whole lot of that because we had a very full day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very full day. But I think we started our morning language classes, and it was very heavily language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did they bring over the language instructors from Fiji?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.98859959818559, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we'll get to that eventually I suppose. But and then beyond the banyan tree, you took a little pass and it went to some pools above a waterfall and you could just, you could dunk in the pools and cool off on the rocks. And it was just, it was a fabulous. We didn't do a whole lot of that because we had a very full day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very full day. But I think we started our morning language classes, and it was very heavily language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did they bring over the language instructors from Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Native Fijians. Upito Lasaysay. Samisoni. I can't remember his second name. Levi. Levi Wanga. Yeah, I still remember, I mean, I remember these people because they were just, they were the first actual Fijians that we'd met and they were teaching us. So that seemed appropriate, you know, on a number of levels. Not just because they were native speakers, but because they were culturally Fijian. And they looked and talked and acted and had the expectations and mannerisms of the Fijian people that we were going to be serving. Yeah. They were wonderful people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did intensive language training there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.566172343439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Native Fijians. Upito Lasaysay. Samisoni. I can't remember his second name. Levi. Levi Wanga. Yeah, I still remember, I mean, I remember these people because they were just, they were the first actual Fijians that we'd met and they were teaching us. So that seemed appropriate, you know, on a number of levels. Not just because they were native speakers, but because they were culturally Fijian. And they looked and talked and acted and had the expectations and mannerisms of the Fijian people that we were going to be serving. Yeah. They were wonderful people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did intensive language training there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, 6:30 to, I think we broke at 8:00 for breakfast and then go back to your rooms and shower and brush your teeth, whatever you're going to do. And then I think there was more language in the later morning. And then we had another break and then we had. Anyway, we had probably 5 hours on average a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it was full tilt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did they think that the Hawaii being an island location would be similar to Fiji and would kind of prepare you for Fiji?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.222789732417311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1874. Do we want another colony? No, but we'll take it anyway, because maybe we can justify it strategically in terms of where it's located in the Pacific. And plus, we can get rid of all of our starving people from India and have them go there and grow sugar cane for us and maybe make some money out of it. I mean, I think they were pretty cynical about the whole thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, I mean, you worked with the Indians. You know, you go someplace, you try to make the best life you can. And, you know, it was, it can't have been easy for the for the. Because before the starvation happened in the late 1800s in India, the constitution of Fiji had said, look, you know, this land is the property of Fijian landowners, traditional landowners, in perpetuity. Well, so the Indians show up a couple of decades later and after a while they want to buy land. They had to rent it in perpetuity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's why there were such go getters. And part of the reason for the ongoing, I think still to the present day, I mean, it flares and it subsides, but friction, I guess I'd call it, between the two groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. OK. So then you finish training in Hawaii and you head off to Fiji?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.358655258241457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, I mean, you worked with the Indians. You know, you go someplace, you try to make the best life you can. And, you know, it was, it can't have been easy for the for the. Because before the starvation happened in the late 1800s in India, the constitution of Fiji had said, look, you know, this land is the property of Fijian landowners, traditional landowners, in perpetuity. Well, so the Indians show up a couple of decades later and after a while they want to buy land. They had to rent it in perpetuity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's why there were such go getters. And part of the reason for the ongoing, I think still to the present day, I mean, it flares and it subsides, but friction, I guess I'd call it, between the two groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. OK. So then you finish training in Hawaii and you head off to Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, off to Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were in your group, do you remember about how big a group it was? And did all of them make it through training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.62072806471273, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's why there were such go getters. And part of the reason for the ongoing, I think still to the present day, I mean, it flares and it subsides, but friction, I guess I'd call it, between the two groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. OK. So then you finish training in Hawaii and you head off to Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, off to Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were in your group, do you remember about how big a group it was? And did all of them make it through training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a vague memory and, no, all of them didn't. I'm going to say, and again, you've got the face book so or the mug book so you can do the counting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We should say a mug book is kind of like a yearbook for your group."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.235466746558924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a vague memory and, no, all of them didn't. I'm going to say, and again, you've got the face book so or the mug book so you can do the counting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We should say a mug book is kind of like a yearbook for your group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, right. It wasn't, you know, profile left, profile right. I do remember, though, I had a thing about authority. And as I look at my life, I've always had a thing about authority. I maybe was rebelling against my father. I don't know. But they wanted us, when they took those pictures for the mug book, to hold up our name placards like, you know, like this, or just out of sight or over here. And they had last name, comma, first name. I said, this is totally unnecessary. So I crossed mine out and I wrote Stephen Wiley. Or Steve Wiley. And, boy, did that set them off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Well, anyway. And but so there was that. And I think the director of training even talked to me about it. You don't want to do this because it just upsets the apple cart unnecessarily. So the training finished. Oh, and well so there was, OK. We had language training pretty intensively. We had teacher training in which we put in, I think it was at least a month pretty much full time, at local elementary schools in and around Hilo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did student teaching?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.372740829509915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, right. It wasn't, you know, profile left, profile right. I do remember, though, I had a thing about authority. And as I look at my life, I've always had a thing about authority. I maybe was rebelling against my father. I don't know. But they wanted us, when they took those pictures for the mug book, to hold up our name placards like, you know, like this, or just out of sight or over here. And they had last name, comma, first name. I said, this is totally unnecessary. So I crossed mine out and I wrote Stephen Wiley. Or Steve Wiley. And, boy, did that set them off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Well, anyway. And but so there was that. And I think the director of training even talked to me about it. You don't want to do this because it just upsets the apple cart unnecessarily. So the training finished. Oh, and well so there was, OK. We had language training pretty intensively. We had teacher training in which we put in, I think it was at least a month pretty much full time, at local elementary schools in and around Hilo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did student teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Full tilt. And Irene Greenhouse was, I think Japanese Hawaiian, and Greenhouse is a haole name. So her husband must have been a haole. But she knew what she was doing and she was very good with the kids. She was very low key and patient."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was a trainer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.52526758834435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Well, anyway. And but so there was that. And I think the director of training even talked to me about it. You don't want to do this because it just upsets the apple cart unnecessarily. So the training finished. Oh, and well so there was, OK. We had language training pretty intensively. We had teacher training in which we put in, I think it was at least a month pretty much full time, at local elementary schools in and around Hilo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did student teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Full tilt. And Irene Greenhouse was, I think Japanese Hawaiian, and Greenhouse is a haole name. So her husband must have been a haole. But she knew what she was doing and she was very good with the kids. She was very low key and patient."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was a trainer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she was the teacher. I, we worked as assistants in the classroom to the kids, to teach the kids. And but, you know, that was just for. They knew it was only for a few weeks that they had to put up with this. I didn't have any idea we were being put up with, you know, I thought it was a good deal. But knowing now what I know, if I had known it then, I would have realized that they were being gracious and patient. And helping us learn things, how to teach. So I had a rough idea of how to teach when I was done with that. I would say the language training was superb. The teacher training was, it was OK, B or maybe a high C. The culture training was very strange."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why is that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.597074881130794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't think Peace Corps knew how to look for people. Or at least in our case, they didn't find. Joe and Linda Berglund were OK and they were interesting and funny. They had us, I'm sure you've read this, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, actually."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The classic essay by, I forget his name now. Oh, Horace Miner, M-I-N-E-R. It's called The Nacirema [Body Ritual Among the Nacirema]. Never read it?\n\nNo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You can probably find it online. N-A-C-I-R-E-M-A. And they're located somewhere south of the Cree and north of the Yaqui. And if you know anything about where Native American tribes are, that's the United States. And Nacirema is American spelled backwards. And so the whole essay is a very, very deftly done spoof of fifties American mainstream culture. They have holy head men. They have holy mouth men. They have people, when people are really sick, they go to the Latipso, which is hospital backwards without the H. But they don't want to go there because they know they're going to die, and they get poked and prodded and tortured a little bit. And there are vestal maidens who wait on them before the medicine. Before and after the medicine men come and make their pronouncements."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just, it's funnier than hell. It's a satire of anthropology as a clueless discipline, and it's also a satire of fifties American culture. And I didn't get it. I had no, most people didn't get it. Some of them had read it already, and they were told to shut up and just let the rest of us deal with it. And then it was revealed. But and so we had some fun around that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was part of your cultural training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.814917532415355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Part of our cultural training, yeah. Oh, would some power give us the gift to see ourselves as others see us, as the poet Robert Burns once said. But it didn't happen. And Joe and Linda had done their work in Rajasthan. And I don't know what relevance that had to the Peace Corps program in Fiji. I don't think a lot of the people. I mean, you learned Hindi, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even that didn't work for all the volunteers, I'm sure. There must have been some Urdu speakers that were served by. You know what I mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyhow, so. We were down to that. I mean, it was entertaining and provocative, but it wasn't very conclusive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It didn't teach you anything about the Fijian people."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.53693522520414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyhow, so. We were down to that. I mean, it was entertaining and provocative, but it wasn't very conclusive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It didn't teach you anything about the Fijian people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not as such. You know, we got some do's and don'ts which were useful in their own way, but, you know, no flashes of insight. But I think the reason for that is that if you really want to flashes of insight, you've got to put in your time and be patient and observe and ask yourself what's going on and verify your answers with people who know. And some of them probably won't be wanting to tell you whether your answers are right or wrong. Some will. But it was, uh. So the cultural training was, I would give that a C maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then we got to Fiji, we got, as you were asking before. We got off the plane at Nadi, and yeah, it was hot but it wasn't. I mean, we had had some acclimation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had been in Hawaii where."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.506531359859991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About the same distance as Fiji is south."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was hotter in Fiji and stickier. But, you know, we were young and healthy and the weather wasn't much of a bother really. And they kept us pretty busy at Nasinu Teachers College."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had a kind of a barracks like set up there in the dorms that were vacated because it was Christmas break, or coming to the end of Christmas break. And those student teachers would be back shortly after we vacated. I think we were there for a week or maybe not even quite. And then it was time to go off to our various sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had about a week of transition in Fiji before you started your jobs?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.032754765259249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had a kind of a barracks like set up there in the dorms that were vacated because it was Christmas break, or coming to the end of Christmas break. And those student teachers would be back shortly after we vacated. I think we were there for a week or maybe not even quite. And then it was time to go off to our various sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had about a week of transition in Fiji before you started your jobs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and it was, and you know, that was fine as far as we were concerned. And I'm still two minds about it. I think maybe some sort of hybrid training model would work best. The idea that in-country, see, I think the weakness to in-country training might be, and it probably varies enormously from program to program, that, well, they'll pick it up because you're going to be in-country. Well, maybe you will, maybe you won't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Language or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, everything. Language, culture, you know. Certainly not the, certainly not the technical or professional or vocational stuff. That needs to be done. And if it can be done by. Now, see, if we had had teacher training by Fijian teachers, that would have been enormously helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To understand how their schools work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.925283072510275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and it was, and you know, that was fine as far as we were concerned. And I'm still two minds about it. I think maybe some sort of hybrid training model would work best. The idea that in-country, see, I think the weakness to in-country training might be, and it probably varies enormously from program to program, that, well, they'll pick it up because you're going to be in-country. Well, maybe you will, maybe you won't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Language or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, everything. Language, culture, you know. Certainly not the, certainly not the technical or professional or vocational stuff. That needs to be done. And if it can be done by. Now, see, if we had had teacher training by Fijian teachers, that would have been enormously helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To understand how their schools work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not just how their schools work. But, yeah, how to teach. How Fijians teach Fijian kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you assigned?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.805870080566972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, everything. Language, culture, you know. Certainly not the, certainly not the technical or professional or vocational stuff. That needs to be done. And if it can be done by. Now, see, if we had had teacher training by Fijian teachers, that would have been enormously helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To understand how their schools work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not just how their schools work. But, yeah, how to teach. How Fijians teach Fijian kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A village called Laselevu, L-A-S-E-L-E-V-U."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the interior?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.784300089518858, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not just how their schools work. But, yeah, how to teach. How Fijians teach Fijian kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A village called Laselevu, L-A-S-E-L-E-V-U."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the interior?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the interior, you bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I know a little bit about Laselevu. Tell me."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.871444543909842, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A village called Laselevu, L-A-S-E-L-E-V-U."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the interior?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the interior, you bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I know a little bit about Laselevu. Tell me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When were you there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wasn't there, but I know a little bit. Tell me what it took."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.07938282656649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the interior, you bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I know a little bit about Laselevu. Tell me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When were you there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wasn't there, but I know a little bit. Tell me what it took."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll ask you afterwards, go ahead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did it take to get to Laselevu?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.535898705425138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, you know, we were sprinkled at, we weren't close to anything particularly convenient necessarily. And the idea was that we would have each other as company. Uh. But our village had, and this had gone up the chain. So it's a good thing that the various, well, Ministry of Education in this case, listened. Our village had specifically said, look, you know, these two guys you sent us left after a year, each of them. We thought we were getting somebody for two years. So, you know, give us a couple. And when we got there, as you may know, the furnishings, such as we would consider them, in a Fijian house were very sparse. There was one desk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One chair to sit at the desk with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you could prepare your lesson plans. And there was a bed, a double bed with a foam mattress on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A foam mattress?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.892239843901062, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was a major outlay for them, but they still did it anyway. And part of the reason they did it, I think the prime mover was a man named Malachi Moramambito. And he had had the idea that, well, you know, look, our kids need education. They need good education. I don't know. He had been in on. There was somebody from Fiji I up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know? Is that how you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. And I don't know if it was Mark Schultheis who was the big rugby star or another guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was, um, his name is Dan."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.5089380788902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. And I don't know if it was Mark Schultheis who was the big rugby star or another guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was, um, his name is Dan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, I think maybe it was Dan and I don't, I may have my signals crossed. There was a guy who drank too much and got crazy and didn't show up for school sometimes. And so I heard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That wasn't Dan?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't think so."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.99305634964362, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. Might not have been, but that happened to a lot of single guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, you know, predictably, the village wanted something a little more predictable and productive. So that's what they got with us. And Sally had been in, you know, she was going to go into education one way or another anyway. And I, this is my first chosen career. And as it turns out, it became my career for my whole life in one form or another of various levels. So we were both earnest about it and we did our very best. And I don't know if you ever saw the lesson plan books? When they opened, they were about that wide and they were probably 18 inches down the middle, top to bottom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they all, it's all little lines going all the way across. And you had to use a ruler and pencils and pens. And I don't think we were supposed to use colored pens or colored pencils, but so. And you plan Monday through Friday, and you had the entire week blocked out. Every day, every lesson, every timeslot. This day we're going to do this. On this day we're going to this, on this day we're going to do this. And it seemed to work out, which is the amazing thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was very structured."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.398834999560025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they all, it's all little lines going all the way across. And you had to use a ruler and pencils and pens. And I don't think we were supposed to use colored pens or colored pencils, but so. And you plan Monday through Friday, and you had the entire week blocked out. Every day, every lesson, every timeslot. This day we're going to do this. On this day we're going to this, on this day we're going to do this. And it seemed to work out, which is the amazing thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was very structured."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, God, yes. In fact, the visiting teachers that we had, I think we were visited maybe twice a year. I'm not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because you're pretty remote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's hard to get to."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.6664403286145735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And we had to put the guy up. And I think all of them or, or all but one of them, were Indian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they just, this was, they didn't want to be there, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they'd come and do some observation in the classroom and check our lesson plans and, you know, very kind of bureaucratically highfalutin, you know, you're just teachers, even though you are Peace Corps. And here we are. We tried to be as accommodating as we could. And about the only thing we could do is would be to serve daal, which we did, with rice. And we didn't have any ghee. I don't know if we had any butter at the time. And I think he ate it because he was hungry, but he wasn't, they weren't warm, fuzzy people. Well, you know, they're basically the cops for the Ministry of Education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure. And being in an interior village like that would have been."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.51826703179397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they just, this was, they didn't want to be there, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they'd come and do some observation in the classroom and check our lesson plans and, you know, very kind of bureaucratically highfalutin, you know, you're just teachers, even though you are Peace Corps. And here we are. We tried to be as accommodating as we could. And about the only thing we could do is would be to serve daal, which we did, with rice. And we didn't have any ghee. I don't know if we had any butter at the time. And I think he ate it because he was hungry, but he wasn't, they weren't warm, fuzzy people. Well, you know, they're basically the cops for the Ministry of Education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure. And being in an interior village like that would have been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Equivalent to going to a foreign country probably."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.353630035326633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they'd come and do some observation in the classroom and check our lesson plans and, you know, very kind of bureaucratically highfalutin, you know, you're just teachers, even though you are Peace Corps. And here we are. We tried to be as accommodating as we could. And about the only thing we could do is would be to serve daal, which we did, with rice. And we didn't have any ghee. I don't know if we had any butter at the time. And I think he ate it because he was hungry, but he wasn't, they weren't warm, fuzzy people. Well, you know, they're basically the cops for the Ministry of Education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure. And being in an interior village like that would have been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Equivalent to going to a foreign country probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, absolutely. In fact, one of the things that I saw on the one cot, what was called the hospital, I guess you could call it a clinic, that was run by the dissolute hereditary chief for one of the big clans from Rewa province. But he had basically washed out and he was a doctor. And so this was his, he was secommed to Laselevu, as they would have said. One of the things they had to keep was a chart of the population in the village. So it was, I think it said 140 Fijians, zero Indians, two others. And those two others, that was us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was you."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.281811150362925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Equivalent to going to a foreign country probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, absolutely. In fact, one of the things that I saw on the one cot, what was called the hospital, I guess you could call it a clinic, that was run by the dissolute hereditary chief for one of the big clans from Rewa province. But he had basically washed out and he was a doctor. And so this was his, he was secommed to Laselevu, as they would have said. One of the things they had to keep was a chart of the population in the village. So it was, I think it said 140 Fijians, zero Indians, two others. And those two others, that was us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was it. And he basically most of the time had nothing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So describe this, the village, you mean, what? What was it like and what did most of the people do there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.245282785134328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the people in the village just did their daily activities. Economically, it was subsistence horticulture, gardening, you know, with a little surplus sometimes. Occasionally, there weren't really any fish in the river. I mean, I think I caught one three inches long at one point, which was kind of a disappointment. I did have my fishing gear with me. But occasionally there was a man in the village and he might have been a clan head. But there was a man in the village who had dogs, and he had somehow trained them to hunt, and they would go hunt wild pig out in the forest, maybe a couple of times every three months, not very often. But we always got a chunk of pork. It must have been a pound and a half, two pounds. Just the two of us. And I remember trying not to think how much privilege that showed that we had. But, you know, I mean, the whole village, because you had to share."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What you got, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I can imagine these families, especially the ones that were putting up relatives, putting up, putting up their relatives' kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To go to school there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.050314205704808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What you got, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I can imagine these families, especially the ones that were putting up relatives, putting up, putting up their relatives' kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To go to school there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To come to school there. You know, I mean, how much, how much were they getting? You know, I never thought of it much. But we managed to figure out a marinade that included oil and a lot of vinegar and soften it up so it was pretty good. Yeah. Fijians thought that soft meat was terrible, because if you eat soft meat, you become a soft person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, different tastes. And what type of house did you live in? Was it a traditional house?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.064902888483962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A traditional bure, yeah. Yeah. And we actually, our roof began to leak at one point pretty, pretty badly. And so we said, we went to Molokai and said, hey, our roof's leaking. And he said. He didn't, well, he did speak English, actually, but he tried not to speak English with us because he wanted to encourage us to speak Fijian. And I think the fact that we did that was something that was a small feather in his cap. I mean, it wasn't entirely altruistic on his part, but he was a pretty good guy. And so he said, no problem, I'll get it fixed. Or the equivalent, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so these guys show up. I'd say probably half a dozen, maybe eight or ten. Some of the older men in the village, not real old, but, you know, older at that point from me, you know, forties, fifties, parents of, you know, fathers and uncles of the kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they went right to work and they put together bundles of river reeds, which they folded over. And they, and so this is pole and thatch construction, or pole and post construction, and they basically, they repaired the house and it was good as new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Replaced the roof."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.72210233146168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they went right to work and they put together bundles of river reeds, which they folded over. And they, and so this is pole and thatch construction, or pole and post construction, and they basically, they repaired the house and it was good as new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Replaced the roof."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's like putting new shingles on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But much more organic. And I don't think there were any nails involved. They did a lot of the tying with, I think it was coconut fiber rope, which is kind of a. We had like two or three coconut trees in our village. I think the soil maybe wasn't. I know, weird, right? I don't think the soil was sandy enough. I'm not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was a, it was a higher altitude."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.245545391650175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I made the mistake of thinking, oh, that's cool. And so they didn't take. I didn't give them any yagona, I didn't thank them in the way that I should have thanked them traditionally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so nobody gave me a bad time about it. But I spent way too much time with my new wife, from Fijian point of view now, with my new wife and preparing lesson plans and reading up and trying to be a good teacher. And I just kind of neglected the whole social side of everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was. And that was a serious mistake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned yagona. Tell us tell us what that is."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.38393932405575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so nobody gave me a bad time about it. But I spent way too much time with my new wife, from Fijian point of view now, with my new wife and preparing lesson plans and reading up and trying to be a good teacher. And I just kind of neglected the whole social side of everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was. And that was a serious mistake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned yagona. Tell us tell us what that is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yagona is the Fijian word for kava. And I spent some time in the village drinking socially with the men, but that was kind of the ante, the social ante that you had to, that you had to give was, your time with other people, other men, because it was men who drank it. Women sometimes prepared it. Adolescent men sometimes prepared it and served it if it was a less formal setting. They'd have the kids in the house serve it. But it was, uh, it was a serious kind of ceremonial time to relax. And it sounds like a bit of an oxymoron, but it wasn't really. And I, you know, I wish that I had spent more time out in the village just hanging out with the men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. But being the only foreigners in the village, the only Americans there, you had no other Americans to socialize with."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.648821471173054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was. And that was a serious mistake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned yagona. Tell us tell us what that is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yagona is the Fijian word for kava. And I spent some time in the village drinking socially with the men, but that was kind of the ante, the social ante that you had to, that you had to give was, your time with other people, other men, because it was men who drank it. Women sometimes prepared it. Adolescent men sometimes prepared it and served it if it was a less formal setting. They'd have the kids in the house serve it. But it was, uh, it was a serious kind of ceremonial time to relax. And it sounds like a bit of an oxymoron, but it wasn't really. And I, you know, I wish that I had spent more time out in the village just hanging out with the men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. But being the only foreigners in the village, the only Americans there, you had no other Americans to socialize with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you must have had quite a bit of interaction with the village there, didn't you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.504717865645745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you must have had quite a bit of interaction with the village there, didn't you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I said, not much, between making dinner and still being newlyweds and the schoolwork. It was the first time I'd ever taught, you know, and I wanted to be on top of my lessons, and the textbooks we had were helpful. But I had to figure out how to transliterate what was on the page into how I was going to teach it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was a big job for me. It didn't come to me very naturally. I didn't feel comfortable really, or begin to feel comfortable teaching, until partway into my second year. But and so the funny thing is, I saw these things as equivalent. My facility, relative facility, with Fijian. And doing my job, right? And I figured if I could handle the language, if I could do the schoolwork, that was enough. And I just thought I'd just let the social thing slide. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how about the students at school? How did you find them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.573725760056474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was a big job for me. It didn't come to me very naturally. I didn't feel comfortable really, or begin to feel comfortable teaching, until partway into my second year. But and so the funny thing is, I saw these things as equivalent. My facility, relative facility, with Fijian. And doing my job, right? And I figured if I could handle the language, if I could do the schoolwork, that was enough. And I just thought I'd just let the social thing slide. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how about the students at school? How did you find them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The students were enthusiastic, eager, funny. They were capable of being very serious. They were easy to work with. Mostly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except when they didn't get something and I didn't know how to help them get it. You know, and then it became a kind of, I wish you could tell me how to do this, you know? I wish I could too. Sort of thing. Not spoken, you understand, but just interpersonally. But some of those, some of those kids. [speaks Fijian] Little. A little girl. Small, physically. And just smarter than a whip. And then there was another girl who was bigger, who was, I guess you could say, developmentally precocious. And, uh, who was also very smart. And they had sweet dispositions, you know, all of them.\n\nThere was one boy who I think who would, and he was developing pretty quickly too. I mean, in sixth grade, his voice was beginning to change and, you know, uh. And he was. He had an older brother who worked in Vatukoula. And I think, I think he probably heard stories of abusive white mine bosses. And so maybe that Ponty was a little less inclined. And I don't know if that's why, but I'm pretty sure that he did have a brother who worked at Vatukoula. I think Ponty was less inclined to take me at face value. I think he was a little more skeptical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he suspicious of you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.938368741374806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the subtexts that are going on all the time, you have no connection with. I mean, why is person A interacting with person B in a certain way? Part of the explanation for that has nothing to do with personality. Some of it does. But a lot of it has to do with kinship and clan membership and the histories of the family, the nuclear families and the families of origin that everybody is part of. And what loyalties and strategic interests those groups of people have, and they're very often at loggerheads. So the fact that a couple of boys won't speak to each other in fifth grade, why? Well, because, you know, so-and-so's father, even though they're the same clan, he talked the clan head in the village into letting him have the better land for gardening the next season. And so the guy who lost out told his kids, don't go to talk to your uncle, you know? And that's why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. Things you wouldn't be in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And that, I became very acutely aware of that once I realized that even though I had started occasionally dreaming in Fijian and I was pretty good at keeping up in a conversation. I found last night that I've lost that entirely. I can produce Fijian, but as far as hearing it, processing it, and responding in the same, you know, in the same rhythmic flow, I don't have it anymore. Which is not surprising. It's been a while. Still, I wish I had it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you guys do in your spare time or your time off? Like there were school breaks? Did you stay in the village or did you go somewhere else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "School breaks we looked forward to in the beginning and we'd take the whole time, you know, week, week and a half. And we'd stock up on supplies that we didn't have in the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd go to town?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.40539350787013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "School breaks we looked forward to in the beginning and we'd take the whole time, you know, week, week and a half. And we'd stock up on supplies that we didn't have in the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd go to town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'd fantasize about bread and butter. And eggs because, you know, the chickens in the village were for eating. They weren't for eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So, yeah, we'd go to town. We'd hire a boat, or hire a boat, and then. We'd hire the boat and then the guy who owned the boat would say, OK. There were two of them in the village and they were both pretty good. And he would say, well, you know, the word would get around somehow really quickly that somebody was going down the river in the boat. And so the guy who owned the boat would collect the additional fares, which is fine, you know? I mean, it was nothing.\n\nYeah, we'd stock up and we'd occasionally go into the Peace Corps office or, you know, buy something we were out of. But increasingly that became unnecessary because I think, well, I think, I know in some ways we just simplified our wants and found that our needs were pretty adequately met by what was available in the village. Not all of it, but a lot of it. And so, why go? And it was at that point that we began to, instead of going into Suva and meeting other Peace Corps volunteers the way a lot of people do, which is fine. We'd say, well, how about? You think? How about if we get Nikko, who was a little impish little kid in my class, fun and smart. How about if we have Nikko take us across to Lautucoma? This is across, up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd go through the jungle?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.534147473072878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly. Up through and, you know, jungle tracks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And mud up to your knees some of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so Sally and I did that. We did that one time. Another time, I can't remember how we got there, but we basically hiked from the headwaters of the Sigatoka. We hiked to the headwaters of the Sigatoka and then took the bus down. And that was an amazing trip. I mean, it was kind of like open grasslands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would have been essentially on the opposite side of the?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.61337101930436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the opposite and a half, you know, or half opposite. I mean, the Sigatoka still runs out into the ocean. If you're looking at Viti Levu like this. And so, let's see, Suva's here, the way you're looking at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Laselevu was here. Tomanivi, the mountain, the highest point is here. Vatukoula's here. The Sigatoka River starts up here, but it runs down this way. And so it's still. The Sigatoka is interesting because it's mostly grassland. It's kind of open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much more so than, it's not the wet side. We got 250 inches a year of rain, on average. Which was amazing, you know? So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of rain."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 11.792634465893732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Laselevu was here. Tomanivi, the mountain, the highest point is here. Vatukoula's here. The Sigatoka River starts up here, but it runs down this way. And so it's still. The Sigatoka is interesting because it's mostly grassland. It's kind of open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much more so than, it's not the wet side. We got 250 inches a year of rain, on average. Which was amazing, you know? So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of rain."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of rain. Yeah. In fact, during the rainy season, you could set your clock by it, you know? As soon as you got back in the classroom at 1:00 and we did go by the clock. Although the first sound you heard in the morning after the roosters was the lali that woke people up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And lali, for the audience?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.4362605176597025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much more so than, it's not the wet side. We got 250 inches a year of rain, on average. Which was amazing, you know? So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of rain."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of rain. Yeah. In fact, during the rainy season, you could set your clock by it, you know? As soon as you got back in the classroom at 1:00 and we did go by the clock. Although the first sound you heard in the morning after the roosters was the lali that woke people up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And lali, for the audience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, the old-fashioned British term is slit gong. It's actually a hollowed-out section of log, which is a drum. And I don't know, I'd say the diameter probably varies, of the opening on the inside, probably varies anywhere between four or five inches to bigger ones were probably closer to nine or ten. But it's very resonant. The sound carries. And somehow that's something that the Fijians had obviously long before the Brits showed up and said school began promptly at 9:00 in the morning. But it did, 9:00 to 12:00 and 1:00 to 3:00, I think, were the hours. And as I was saying, during the rainy season, you could pretty much set your clock. As soon as you got back into the classroom at 1:00, the skies would open. It would pour for five, ten, maybe sometimes 15 minutes. And that was it. And you could start teaching because the rain on the roof was so loud, you couldn't hear anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a tin roof then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.151400575177447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of rain. Yeah. In fact, during the rainy season, you could set your clock by it, you know? As soon as you got back in the classroom at 1:00 and we did go by the clock. Although the first sound you heard in the morning after the roosters was the lali that woke people up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And lali, for the audience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, the old-fashioned British term is slit gong. It's actually a hollowed-out section of log, which is a drum. And I don't know, I'd say the diameter probably varies, of the opening on the inside, probably varies anywhere between four or five inches to bigger ones were probably closer to nine or ten. But it's very resonant. The sound carries. And somehow that's something that the Fijians had obviously long before the Brits showed up and said school began promptly at 9:00 in the morning. But it did, 9:00 to 12:00 and 1:00 to 3:00, I think, were the hours. And as I was saying, during the rainy season, you could pretty much set your clock. As soon as you got back into the classroom at 1:00, the skies would open. It would pour for five, ten, maybe sometimes 15 minutes. And that was it. And you could start teaching because the rain on the roof was so loud, you couldn't hear anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a tin roof then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. School buildings had tin roofs. The teacher's houses were all traditional bures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So any episodes at school there that really stick out in your memory?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.375705799691277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was part of the reason Fiji I went in the first place because that was an education group. And all of a sudden, lo and behold, the Ministry of Education had an acute shortage of teachers, because now there were some schools where they needed teachers to teach an additional two grades."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that's how Peace Corps, I guess, got started in Fiji. And then. And the idea was A, they learn more, which the Ministry of Education and the Fijian people themselves were seriously interested in. They didn't necessarily understand why, but they understood that it was a good thing. And some of them did understand perfectly well why. I mean, they weren't a bunch. They weren't. They were. They weren't stupid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were simply, some of them, a little uneducated. And so and they were, they lived in tribal villages. They knew what was what. Um. Prompt me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was a memorable episode, something."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.973006444101419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that's how Peace Corps, I guess, got started in Fiji. And then. And the idea was A, they learn more, which the Ministry of Education and the Fijian people themselves were seriously interested in. They didn't necessarily understand why, but they understood that it was a good thing. And some of them did understand perfectly well why. I mean, they weren't a bunch. They weren't. They were. They weren't stupid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were simply, some of them, a little uneducated. And so and they were, they lived in tribal villages. They knew what was what. Um. Prompt me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was a memorable episode, something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a memorable episode simply because everybody got dressed up and they, well, actually, I don't know if they ran up the Fiji flag every morning or not. I think maybe they did. Another memorable episode was our village, because it was centrally located, became one of the official places where independence was celebrated. And so there are some wonderful graphic images of that time. At sundown on October 9th, 1970, the Union Jack was lowered in the schoolyard for the last time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is when Fiji gained its independence?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.139514128520269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a memorable episode simply because everybody got dressed up and they, well, actually, I don't know if they ran up the Fiji flag every morning or not. I think maybe they did. Another memorable episode was our village, because it was centrally located, became one of the official places where independence was celebrated. And so there are some wonderful graphic images of that time. At sundown on October 9th, 1970, the Union Jack was lowered in the schoolyard for the last time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is when Fiji gained its independence?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Because on October 10th, 1874, it had become a crown colony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were now making the transition from crown colony to dominion. And that's kind of like we're run our own show and you can run our foreign affairs, but they're not doing anything anyway, much. And so there were, there were all of these older men in the village who had, who had, kept their formal jackets somewhere. I don't know where they kept them because I'd never seen them in their formal jackets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody got dressed up for this event."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.443777954074443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With their medals from World War II and from the Malaysia campaign, where they went to put down Commies for the Brits. And that was pretty much it. But there they are, saluting the Union Jack as it comes down, in their old zoot suit jackets, straight out of mothballs with the medals on them. Not all had medals, but some of them did. Crying. These stoic Fijian men. It was a powerful image. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the next day, instead of somber, well, they were grieving maybe? Yeah. Not too much to call it that I think for some of them, at least the men, because they had been warriors for the queen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was a big deal for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it was a strong alliance."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.248861384048839, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back in the, back in the old days. But, you know, there was warfare traditionally between villages, which doesn't make sense to us because, you know, we like to think in binary terms, but tribal people very often think in terms of alliance or opposition. And sometimes an alliance can be a strong alliance. Sometimes an opposition can be a weak opposition. But it can go the other way too. So, you know, and this is difficult. It's made much more complicated by the fact that you don't just marry within the village. And it's not because everybody knows that's bad for the gene pool. You marry outside the village because it's a good place to get allies from. And the marriages were patrilocal, so the women would move in with their, into their husbands' villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, then you've got brothers-in-law in this other village, if you're a man, and you've got sisters-in-law too by marriage. And so a man and a woman would have alliances not just within the village on a day to day basis, because the village is pretty much self-reliant that way. But, you know, if they were going to be long term relationships and visiting and somebody had something you really wanted or just to have a wider network of people, it's a good thing to do. And that's how they operated. I didn't understand any of this until I started in with my anthropology and long after I came back. But that's that whole other level of discourse that I talked about earlier, which when I was explaining why a boy wasn't supposed to talk to his uncle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that just went right over me because we didn't have that kind of training in cultural training. It would have been really great to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, sure would. So you're out there and you decided that you're pretty comfortable out at your site and you don't need to travel into town much."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.609845982276487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, then you've got brothers-in-law in this other village, if you're a man, and you've got sisters-in-law too by marriage. And so a man and a woman would have alliances not just within the village on a day to day basis, because the village is pretty much self-reliant that way. But, you know, if they were going to be long term relationships and visiting and somebody had something you really wanted or just to have a wider network of people, it's a good thing to do. And that's how they operated. I didn't understand any of this until I started in with my anthropology and long after I came back. But that's that whole other level of discourse that I talked about earlier, which when I was explaining why a boy wasn't supposed to talk to his uncle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that just went right over me because we didn't have that kind of training in cultural training. It would have been really great to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, sure would. So you're out there and you decided that you're pretty comfortable out at your site and you don't need to travel into town much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not much, you know, I mean every so often still. But, you know, it would be for three or four days and then we'd use the rest of the vacation to go do something else. We never went to New Zealand or Australia. A lot of people did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much communication with the Peace Corps office in all the time you were out there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.010939980307207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that just went right over me because we didn't have that kind of training in cultural training. It would have been really great to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, sure would. So you're out there and you decided that you're pretty comfortable out at your site and you don't need to travel into town much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not much, you know, I mean every so often still. But, you know, it would be for three or four days and then we'd use the rest of the vacation to go do something else. We never went to New Zealand or Australia. A lot of people did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much communication with the Peace Corps office in all the time you were out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, they came out I think once a year just to sort of see, or they tried to, depending on transportation conditions, how low or high the river was, you know, to see us and, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were pretty much on your own."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.79256207608462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was fine. Um, I think. Oh! But Fiji did not have, um, how to say this. I don't know. Didn't have ambient antisepsis. That is, the entire environment had not been controlled enough against disease vectors for people generally not to get infected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Generally people did get infected and the ones who didn't were the ones who survived childhood. Sally got herself a mosquito bite on her instep, and it didn't go away. And so we put a little of this medicine on it and it didn't go away and it didn't go away. And so eventually it turned into a nasty abscess boil that had to be lanced by the doctor. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that would have never happened in the United States, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's hot and humid climate. Walking barefoot."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.385879106277308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that would have never happened in the United States, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's hot and humid climate. Walking barefoot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. That and the fact that there is no such thing as kids getting all their shots, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or what are those kind of deal. So yeah, it was different in that way. The kids, all the kids, most of the kids, a lot of the kids had ringworm. And, you know, they didn't think it was a big deal. And I guess it wasn't, I don't think it gets very serious. I'm not sure. But they lived with it without too much trouble and eventually it'd go away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds like you adapted very well to the village."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.749325316732389, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, you know, after. So meanwhile, the girls were doing all the work and the boys were lying around talking and seemingly having a good old time. I didn't realize that they were also being stoic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until I thought about it later. What else happens to you when you're male and 13, 14 years old? The thing develops a mind of its own, and that happening with scar tissue has got to be a very, very powerful reminder that something is going on that you better get a handle on. Literally and figuratively. So but that, you know, that went right over my head. All I knew was, well, you know, they're kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And meanwhile, the grass is getting long. And traditionally, in terms of the gender division of labor, it's the boys who cut the grass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Boys cut the grass?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.832583685258209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until I thought about it later. What else happens to you when you're male and 13, 14 years old? The thing develops a mind of its own, and that happening with scar tissue has got to be a very, very powerful reminder that something is going on that you better get a handle on. Literally and figuratively. So but that, you know, that went right over my head. All I knew was, well, you know, they're kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And meanwhile, the grass is getting long. And traditionally, in terms of the gender division of labor, it's the boys who cut the grass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Boys cut the grass?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With machetes, which start out like this and end up looking like a paring knife because they get, well, they get sharpened away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is audio. So it starts out as a big knife and then gets."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.036204094731342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And meanwhile, the grass is getting long. And traditionally, in terms of the gender division of labor, it's the boys who cut the grass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Boys cut the grass?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With machetes, which start out like this and end up looking like a paring knife because they get, well, they get sharpened away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is audio. So it starts out as a big knife and then gets."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it starts looking like a sharp, I don't know what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then it gets smaller and smaller."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.497871061380925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then your two years is coming to an end there. How did you feel about leaving the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I said, they wanted us for two years. I think I've done what I can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have any thoughts about extending."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.44289583179825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sally did. She wanted to stay in the village for a third year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. She said, I don't want to go. I love this. And I, no, I want to get out of here, you know? So we got out. And the compromise we made was, we did, but see, we couldn't have done it anyway as Peace Corps volunteers. Whether the Ministry of Education would have hired us as regular teachers, I don't know. But they were very explicit. No more Peace Corps volunteers in elementary education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Beginning with 1972. So. But what happened was I got a job at Ratu Sukuna Memorial School out in Nabua, which is, as prestige goes, a pretty prestigious. It wasn't the, it wasn't the jewel in the crown, but it was a pretty well-respected secondary school for Fijian kids. And so I got to teach senior high English, including Shakespeare. Go figure, right? Because it's English, that's why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed in Fiji?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.1587731464425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. She said, I don't want to go. I love this. And I, no, I want to get out of here, you know? So we got out. And the compromise we made was, we did, but see, we couldn't have done it anyway as Peace Corps volunteers. Whether the Ministry of Education would have hired us as regular teachers, I don't know. But they were very explicit. No more Peace Corps volunteers in elementary education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Beginning with 1972. So. But what happened was I got a job at Ratu Sukuna Memorial School out in Nabua, which is, as prestige goes, a pretty prestigious. It wasn't the, it wasn't the jewel in the crown, but it was a pretty well-respected secondary school for Fijian kids. And so I got to teach senior high English, including Shakespeare. Go figure, right? Because it's English, that's why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed in Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, we stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is not a volunteer position."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.253461106231136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. All of a sudden, we were rolling in dough because you're being paid like white folks. And no, seriously, the ratio is about 2 to 1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "White folks got paid about twice as much for exactly the same teaching job as local people, whether they were Indian Fijian or Fijian Fijian or whatever they were. Sally had, I guess, on one of the school breaks somehow befriended or gotten to know Merle Angus, whose husband was doing a UN job in Fiji. And part of that circle included the president and his wife of the University of the South Pacific. They had a kid who was developmentally delayed and so she was looking for something for her kid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And lo and behold, things happened. The Ministry of Education agreed to set up a school, the Fiji School for the Intellectually Handicapped. Sally became the headmistress and she had two people working for her. She had a great time. She loved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was in Suva?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.726067895812374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "White folks got paid about twice as much for exactly the same teaching job as local people, whether they were Indian Fijian or Fijian Fijian or whatever they were. Sally had, I guess, on one of the school breaks somehow befriended or gotten to know Merle Angus, whose husband was doing a UN job in Fiji. And part of that circle included the president and his wife of the University of the South Pacific. They had a kid who was developmentally delayed and so she was looking for something for her kid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And lo and behold, things happened. The Ministry of Education agreed to set up a school, the Fiji School for the Intellectually Handicapped. Sally became the headmistress and she had two people working for her. She had a great time. She loved that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was in Suva?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Suva, yeah. Yeah. And we had been able, through another connection that we'd gotten to know, I think, over a longer Christmas break a year earlier. We had a connection to a rent-controlled apartment, which was like 50 bucks a month. And so we stepped into that and we were already living there when the guy decided that we had, that we'd pulled a fast one on him. And so we just kept paying him 50 bucks a month. He was madder than hell, but he couldn't move us out. And so people came and visited us in Suva and that was kind of nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did you stay in Suva?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.971240622779107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we made some reservations. But we basically, we went from. I think. Can't remember how it started exactly, but I think we went from Fiji to New Zealand to American Samoa to Western Samoa to New Caledonia to the New Hebrides to the Solomons. Did I miss anything? I went to every one of the polities in Melanesia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then Papua New Guinea, too. And we spent 2 hours making a plane connection in Darwin, Australia, because we figured, you know, Darwin's, you know, Australia's is too big, it's going to take us too much time, it's too much like the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not interested."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were looking for what was different. And so that's what we did after we left. And we wound up hitting, oh well, so many fantastic things I could tell you that don't have to do with the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um, then how do you think Peace Corps, your Peace Corps experience shaped the rest of your life or influenced the rest of your life?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.89012620498079, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was a kind of a collection pond."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A pond."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the water would come down, it was just gravity. So there was a tap in the upper village. And a second tap, I think, in the upper village. The upper village, so the three divisions of the village, there are two up on the hill and one down in the plain. The plain they called it. It wasn't really a plain. It's a floodplain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not often flooded, but the river. And so this beautiful village. The river ran in an arc right around the village. And in the plain included a very, I think, two or maybe three bures, which were one clan segment. But that guy's, that guy's name was Thao, which meant the owner. And he basically owned the village traditionally, not as private property or anything like that. And then Malachi was in one of the, one of the clan neighborhoods up on the hill. And the other, and somewhat larger and more spread-out clan neighborhood was also up on the hill. So two up the hill and one down. Um. Where was I going?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you were talking about the water supply."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.823218388176667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So there was. So each of the three different clan neighborhoods had one tap, I think. And the school had. I don't know if each of the teachers' houses had one. I know we did. I know the headmaster did. I think the others did too. Or there was, maybe there were. There was a total of four teachers’ bures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There might have been one for the headmaster, one for us, and another one in between for those two, those two teachers’ bures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this pipe was outside, it was on a standpipe?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.025798209085185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There might have been one for the headmaster, one for us, and another one in between for those two, those two teachers’ bures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this pipe was outside, it was on a standpipe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Yeah. And so, but we had a. How the hell we got a shower, I don't know. But they put it in and we were able to shower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Outdoors or indoors?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.735553344549611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Yeah. And so, but we had a. How the hell we got a shower, I don't know. But they put it in and we were able to shower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Outdoors or indoors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, no, outdoors. Yeah. But, you know, I think we were enclosed on three sides and the other side faced our house and our water was the last one in the line. So it was like we could shower nude if you wanted to. I don't know. I think we did sometimes when it was dark enough. But, you know, and not together, you know, you don't want to violate people's sense of propriety."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was nice because at night you would hear occasionally somebody strumming a guitar and some people singing along. Sometimes just talk, sometimes just the mosquitoes, but always the river murmuring around the village. It was. It was beautiful. Absolutely beautiful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, it sounds very nice. So how did you feel about leaving Fiji? It must have, uh, I'm sure even though you haven't, you said you didn't interact much, you must have made some good friends."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.706170382832902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, no, outdoors. Yeah. But, you know, I think we were enclosed on three sides and the other side faced our house and our water was the last one in the line. So it was like we could shower nude if you wanted to. I don't know. I think we did sometimes when it was dark enough. But, you know, and not together, you know, you don't want to violate people's sense of propriety."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was nice because at night you would hear occasionally somebody strumming a guitar and some people singing along. Sometimes just talk, sometimes just the mosquitoes, but always the river murmuring around the village. It was. It was beautiful. Absolutely beautiful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, it sounds very nice. So how did you feel about leaving Fiji? It must have, uh, I'm sure even though you haven't, you said you didn't interact much, you must have made some good friends."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were eager to get off to the next thing, you know, we were in our mid twenties, early to mid twenties, I think. And yeah, and we had this whole adventure trip planned, so we were ready to go, you know.\n\nThe way we started it actually was to go see the rest of Fiji, quotation marks. We took a boat, a copra boat, which did basically everything else, mail supplies, you know, called the Ululakemba. It was a famous boat which several years later went down in a storm, but it had stopped offshore. And occasionally we'd just catch a ride with whoever had come out to pick up supplies, go into shore, look and see what people were doing, and then come back out. One of the islands we stopped at was Namuka, which had, not the only one, certainly one of them, that it was one of them. And that was one of the places they made masi, also known as tapa cloth. And we actually got to see the women making it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't make it in your village?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.745420489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it shaped the rest of my life. Oh yeah. Very, very deeply. I mean, even to this day. I advocate for indigenous people. Now that people have finally come around to beginning to put together the idea that one of the ways that we could actually survive and correct climate change would be to take some practices and principles from indigenous tradition. Because what they all had in common was they didn't overuse what they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we all have in common is we do, and we throw it away. What's left, thrown out. I saw the downside of this when somebody got a nasty cut on their foot in Laselevu. What's that from? One of those tin cans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because what do they do with garbage? I literally heard a woman in the village say this once, throw it far. Because, you know, traditionally it's all biodegradable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The jungle will eat it up."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.531441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly. So. So, yeah, in terms of influence on me, I think it influenced Sally too, but you'd have to ask her. Have you interviewed her?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. Anyway. So how it influenced me. I remember what happened and how I decided what I was going to do. I became very curious about what it meant to be an American, because when I was in Fiji I was told I was American. And I kind of had a sense of what that was, but it was kind of like the white sense of being white, you know, not this, not that, not the other thing, right? And so I thought it'd be interesting to do that. And I looked into graduate programs in American Studies, and I found one that included folklore at Indiana University, where John and Betty were, before we went there. And so we went out and looked at, stayed with John and Betty, and looked at Bloomington, Indiana, which basically was a university surrounded by cornfields at the time.\n\nAnd I had also been, I had also been accepted. I'm getting ahead of myself, but I'll go back. I'd also been accepted at the University of Minnesota, located in the Twin Cities, Minneapolis and St. Paul. OK, back up. I taught ESL while Sally finished up her education degrees. She got two of them in two years, it was a combined program, and it was an MA and an MA Ed or some kind of thing in special ed. And so she was well qualified and we went out in the spring of '64 and looked at the two places. And after I had spent the year teaching English as a second language to people from all over the world at the American Language Institute at New York University in Greenwich Village, which was a real trip, just wonderful. I had a blast. And people loved me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was good at it. And I had enough arrogance not to see that, see where the ice was thin. I just kind of glided over it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you think you would have done that if you hadn't been?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And just totally missed the opportunity. I should have spent more time drinking yagona in the village. That's my take."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's your big regret?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's my big takeaway, yeah. Well, it sounds kind of frivolous, but it's not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Anything you want to say though?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I guess we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wrap things up, or did we skip over anything?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's my big takeaway, yeah. Well, it sounds kind of frivolous, but it's not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Anything you want to say though?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I guess we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wrap things up, or did we skip over anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good God, I hope not. I don't think we skipped anything. Some of the formalities, but just, you know, that's superficial stuff, not what's important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you, um, you've probably spoken to other people over the years about, who have been interested in Peace Corps and might want to join."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I guess we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wrap things up, or did we skip over anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good God, I hope not. I don't think we skipped anything. Some of the formalities, but just, you know, that's superficial stuff, not what's important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you, um, you've probably spoken to other people over the years about, who have been interested in Peace Corps and might want to join."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what do you tell somebody that's thinking about joining Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good God, I hope not. I don't think we skipped anything. Some of the formalities, but just, you know, that's superficial stuff, not what's important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you, um, you've probably spoken to other people over the years about, who have been interested in Peace Corps and might want to join."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what do you tell somebody that's thinking about joining Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Check it out. Do it if you can. Because it will. It will feed you and deepen you in ways that you can't possibly imagine. Or maybe I should say no, because you can imagine almost anything. You can't possibly know how it's going to affect you and it'll all be with good, I think. You know, Peace Corps is one of the most fantastic things that Jack Kennedy ever did. And I don't think even he fully knew what he was doing. That's all right. Sometimes we have a vision and we have to follow it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your advice would be to spend more time drinking yagona with them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what do you tell somebody that's thinking about joining Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Check it out. Do it if you can. Because it will. It will feed you and deepen you in ways that you can't possibly imagine. Or maybe I should say no, because you can imagine almost anything. You can't possibly know how it's going to affect you and it'll all be with good, I think. You know, Peace Corps is one of the most fantastic things that Jack Kennedy ever did. And I don't think even he fully knew what he was doing. That's all right. Sometimes we have a vision and we have to follow it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your advice would be to spend more time drinking yagona with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Or the equivalent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, Steve. Well, I appreciate you taking the time today. It's been a great interview."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00110:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Check it out. Do it if you can. Because it will. It will feed you and deepen you in ways that you can't possibly imagine. Or maybe I should say no, because you can imagine almost anything. You can't possibly know how it's going to affect you and it'll all be with good, I think. You know, Peace Corps is one of the most fantastic things that Jack Kennedy ever did. And I don't think even he fully knew what he was doing. That's all right. Sometimes we have a vision and we have to follow it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your advice would be to spend more time drinking yagona with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Or the equivalent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, Steve. Well, I appreciate you taking the time today. It's been a great interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this concludes our time."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 49.72169524446005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in ’61, and we worked about six months there before we came down here in February of 1962. I wasn’t one of the original members of the task group. They were already under way, and when I joined them, we had just started working on the lunar rendezvous concept for Apollo, where you orbit the Moon and come back and rendezvous. And I worked on that from the beginning with the task group and then for the next ten years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take a look-and-see trip out to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did not. Some other people did, and they brought movies back and showed us the ravages of Hurricane Carla and we said, “What are we doing?” [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you decided to move out here anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. My wife [Carolyn] didn’t want to come at first, but she learned to love it after a while. We came as a group, and so it was—everybody was family, so to speak. They said they had the Husband of the Week because we traveled so much. Whosever husband was home was in charge of repairs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you initially think of Houston when you arrived?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 54.13521693828894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did not. Some other people did, and they brought movies back and showed us the ravages of Hurricane Carla and we said, “What are we doing?” [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you decided to move out here anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. My wife [Carolyn] didn’t want to come at first, but she learned to love it after a while. We came as a group, and so it was—everybody was family, so to speak. They said they had the Husband of the Week because we traveled so much. Whosever husband was home was in charge of repairs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you initially think of Houston when you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hot and humid. But when I was thinking about coming down here, some Virginians told me that, “You don’t want to go there. It’s too hot and too humid.” I said, “It may be hotter than here, but it can’t be more humid.” I was wrong. But thank goodness for air-conditioning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve heard that from a number of people, actually. How did your job change when you moved from Virginia down here to Houston?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 53.4835743758766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. My wife [Carolyn] didn’t want to come at first, but she learned to love it after a while. We came as a group, and so it was—everybody was family, so to speak. They said they had the Husband of the Week because we traveled so much. Whosever husband was home was in charge of repairs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you initially think of Houston when you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hot and humid. But when I was thinking about coming down here, some Virginians told me that, “You don’t want to go there. It’s too hot and too humid.” I said, “It may be hotter than here, but it can’t be more humid.” I was wrong. But thank goodness for air-conditioning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve heard that from a number of people, actually. How did your job change when you moved from Virginia down here to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in Virginia, it was more of a research atmosphere and time wasn’t critical until I started working for the task group. And then, like I say, we started traveling a lot, and we had to go get ourselves educated more on orbital mechanics and other aspects of space operations. And with all the various contractors around the country, we had to go to Rockwell [formerly North American Aviation Corporation], to Grumman [Aircraft Engineering Corporation] in New York, and that sort of thing. And you had to do your homework, and we worked awful long hours. You didn’t get paid the extra hours, but we lived and breathed it. It was a dream to work on something like that, and I think everybody was totally dedicated to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned just a few minutes ago that you worked on the lunar rendezvous concept. Can you talk to us about a paper that you wrote on a study of Earth orbit simulation of lunar orbit rendezvous?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 67.87870284756735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a long time ago. I’d almost forgotten that one. But what we did, we looked at—rendezvous was checked out during the Gemini Program around Earth. And to make the lunar landing a successful mission, we had to rendezvous the LM [Lunar Module] back to the command module after the landing. And so we were very nervous about that, and although we checked it out here, what happens if he can’t come back, if something happened to propulsion?\\n\\n So we looked at a concept of what we call an equal period [or equi-period] transfer. If you’re in one orbit and you fire at a certain angle, you can change the orbit to come down to a lower altitude or come up to higher altitude, and the period around will be the same so it will come back and intercept with that orbit [in one revolution at the same point that you left]. But it turned out to be too expensive from a propulsion standpoint to do that, so we opted for what they call the Hohmann Transfer. That was named after a fellow by the name of [Walter] Hohmann, and he—you fire parallel to the velocity vector or against the velocity vector and just reduce your altitude. And it changes the period of the orbit, so you wind up going faster, but it was the cheapest way to do it. So that’s why we wound up doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you able to create this simulation when the lunar module and the command and service module weren’t actually finished at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t have many simulations. As far as the rendezvous, it was mostly mathematical, and then they did the simulators. They had visuals of everything, and you had the cockpit layouts and you had the same plans of the lunar module and the command module, so you worked it from that standpoint with computers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were also heavily involved in the trajectory analysis planning for the lunar landings themselves."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can we talk about that a little bit?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 42, "return_to_go": 75.4207809417415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t have many simulations. As far as the rendezvous, it was mostly mathematical, and then they did the simulators. They had visuals of everything, and you had the cockpit layouts and you had the same plans of the lunar module and the command module, so you worked it from that standpoint with computers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were also heavily involved in the trajectory analysis planning for the lunar landings themselves."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can we talk about that a little bit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about your role in planning the mission trajectories for the Apollo Program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 37.35830047514328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically, the commanders and the lunar landing pilots, I didn’t have much work with the command module pilots, but with Neil [A. Armstrong] and [Edwin E.] Buzz [Aldrin] and Pete [Charles] Conrad and—Shepard didn’t pay much attention to [us], and he found a glitch in the guidance logic, too. It wasn’t a major thing, but he did in his simulation and everything. But he was quite a guy. And John [W.] Young, I worked with him, and with Apollo 17, [Eugene A.] Cernan, yes. [And I worked quite a lot with Dave Scott on landing site selection for Apollo 15 and the steep approach and trajectory.]\\n\\n We would give them briefings before the mission, then go down and monitor their training down there [at Kennedy Space Center, Florida], so we were the background teachers, I guess, for them to understand why we did what we did. And, “We’d like to do so-and-so,” and we’d have to say, “Okay, that’s good to do,” or, “No, we can’t do that.” So we had a very good working relationship."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did these briefings last?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they were usually a couple hours when we’d go down for training sessions and all, and we were always in various meetings together proposing changes and everything. So we worked on and off with them throughout their training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you participate in any of the lunar landing simulations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got in the simulator and rode it down on automatic. They said, “That’s not flying.” I said, “I’ve got to see if my system works,” and it did. I said, “No, I don’t have the confidence to go take this thing over manually. That would waste everybody’s time.” But it was very interesting.\\n\\n They did a good job with those simulations, too. The video was very good the way they had the view out the window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about Grumman? Did you have any contact with them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.402648275526825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was great. That was great. I had to go over to the other [Lunar Surface Scientist’s] staff support room and tell them where he was. When we did the simulations, like I was telling you, the snowman crater pattern, that big crater is what you could see, mostly. And he would plan to land just upstream of that in what we called Conrad’s Parking Lot. And it turned out he was little further along, and so he moved around and he landed up near the head crater.\\n\\n And so we were aware of that during all the simulations we did for the landings, but the scientists didn’t sit in on those simulations. They started their simulations after he was on the surface and that sort of thing. And so, “What’s the parking lot?” And so I went down and showed them a map where he was, and then they put up a sign on their door that unauthorized personnel shouldn’t be in there. They were a little embarrassed. But anyway, it all ended well, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you receive any commendation for the Apollo 12 pinpoint landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I got the Exceptional Service Medal for that. That was neat. John [W.] Aaron and I flew up to Washington with the crew in the NASA plane to get our medals from Dr. [George M.] Low. That was very rewarding, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any involvement with the Apollo 13 mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I went out there [to the control center] for a little bit. I’d gone home, was taking a shower or something, I think, and it came on the TV. And I came out to see if I could help with anything about using the LM systems, but I wasn’t a LM systems expert, so the best thing I could do was get out of their way. They did quite a job on that. They really did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that the Apollo 15 landing was pretty complicated. What were you thinking as they were landing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.33627586169647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I got the Exceptional Service Medal for that. That was neat. John [W.] Aaron and I flew up to Washington with the crew in the NASA plane to get our medals from Dr. [George M.] Low. That was very rewarding, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any involvement with the Apollo 13 mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I went out there [to the control center] for a little bit. I’d gone home, was taking a shower or something, I think, and it came on the TV. And I came out to see if I could help with anything about using the LM systems, but I wasn’t a LM systems expert, so the best thing I could do was get out of their way. They did quite a job on that. They really did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that the Apollo 15 landing was pretty complicated. What were you thinking as they were landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was glad that we had modeled that terrain and heard them say, “There’s Bennett Hill.” [Laughs] Yes, that was great. We were sweating that one a little bit from going over those mountains and all, but we kept thinking positive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand in ’72 you became the Manager of the Apollo Program Office within the MPAD [Mission Planning and Analysis] Division."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 31.48475095744052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I went out there [to the control center] for a little bit. I’d gone home, was taking a shower or something, I think, and it came on the TV. And I came out to see if I could help with anything about using the LM systems, but I wasn’t a LM systems expert, so the best thing I could do was get out of their way. They did quite a job on that. They really did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that the Apollo 15 landing was pretty complicated. What were you thinking as they were landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was glad that we had modeled that terrain and heard them say, “There’s Bennett Hill.” [Laughs] Yes, that was great. We were sweating that one a little bit from going over those mountains and all, but we kept thinking positive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand in ’72 you became the Manager of the Apollo Program Office within the MPAD [Mission Planning and Analysis] Division."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, their mission office, yes, and that’s when I was doing the site selection on 17."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any other duties or responsibilities?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.0365136707489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, sometimes we chided them about the questions they asked. They didn’t always ask the pertinent questions, I guess, but sometimes they did. And that was the thing you’d have to say is, “Okay, I don’t really know the answer to that one, but it’s not important because of this, this, and this. If you really want to know the answer, we’ll try to get it for you,” and try to keep them back on track of what the right questions should be.\\n\\n But many times they asked intelligent questions, too, but you can’t just go and answer every question out there, or you’d be there forever if it’s not a pertinent question. So that’s what we were trying to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also understand that you were Chief of the Mission Integration Branch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. That was when we were doing Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project] and Skylab. And there we combined our office with their office, and there weren’t the long trajectory burns on those, but it was similar work to what the folks had been doing there. And they were trying to show—get the right constraints for all their science that they were doing and that sort of thing on orbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your basic duties as chief?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just coordinate all the guys together and be sure we had the right people on the right jobs there. I wasn’t the technical expert in those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you think we should know about your involvement with the Apollo Program or Skylab Program, that we haven’t covered?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.485015189721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. That was when we were doing Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project] and Skylab. And there we combined our office with their office, and there weren’t the long trajectory burns on those, but it was similar work to what the folks had been doing there. And they were trying to show—get the right constraints for all their science that they were doing and that sort of thing on orbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your basic duties as chief?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just coordinate all the guys together and be sure we had the right people on the right jobs there. I wasn’t the technical expert in those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you think we should know about your involvement with the Apollo Program or Skylab Program, that we haven’t covered?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so at the moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I’d like to move on to the Shuttle Program, if you don’t mind."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 38.31668354413444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just coordinate all the guys together and be sure we had the right people on the right jobs there. I wasn’t the technical expert in those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you think we should know about your involvement with the Apollo Program or Skylab Program, that we haven’t covered?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so at the moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I’d like to move on to the Shuttle Program, if you don’t mind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that you were working in the Systems Integration Office for the Space Shuttle Program Office."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 30.651973012471746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of hard to get information out of Orbiter for some reason, because the Orbiter Project was reporting to JSC Center Director as well as the Program Manager, and so they wanted everything, maybe like the fellow from Marshall, cleared and everything like that before they would talk to us about some of the things. But it all worked out. But you had to treat them a little differently, I guess, is the word."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also understand that you worked on computer systems integration for the Space Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was in Systems Integration, and what we were doing was, it wasn’t any flight computers or anything like that; it was pulling together a bunch of databases for all the measurements you had onboard the Shuttle. You had a lot of development flight instrumentation on the first few flights, and [by the way] we’re going back to putting more [instrumentation] on now [for return to flight next year]. And so it was a massive amount of data in each project.\\n\\n So each project had their own database for their sets of instrumentation, and you had to pull them together into one database so that everybody could work with it. And that was our job, and that was a little difficult, because there again, some of them were already in existence and the people didn’t want to change and everything like that. Rockwell [International Corporation] had built the Orbiter data[base] and they were also the integration contractor, so we wound up using their system, but it was kind of difficult there for a while to do that. And unfortunately, I didn’t have any budget to control them with, so anyway, but we finally got it together. It could have been run a lot more efficiently, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand you were the Chairman of the Computer Systems Hardware and Software Integration."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was that same role, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The same thing, okay.\\n\\n What sort of interaction did you have with IBM [International Business Machines Corporation]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.83552556941305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was in Systems Integration, and what we were doing was, it wasn’t any flight computers or anything like that; it was pulling together a bunch of databases for all the measurements you had onboard the Shuttle. You had a lot of development flight instrumentation on the first few flights, and [by the way] we’re going back to putting more [instrumentation] on now [for return to flight next year]. And so it was a massive amount of data in each project.\\n\\n So each project had their own database for their sets of instrumentation, and you had to pull them together into one database so that everybody could work with it. And that was our job, and that was a little difficult, because there again, some of them were already in existence and the people didn’t want to change and everything like that. Rockwell [International Corporation] had built the Orbiter data[base] and they were also the integration contractor, so we wound up using their system, but it was kind of difficult there for a while to do that. And unfortunately, I didn’t have any budget to control them with, so anyway, but we finally got it together. It could have been run a lot more efficiently, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand you were the Chairman of the Computer Systems Hardware and Software Integration."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was that same role, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The same thing, okay.\\n\\n What sort of interaction did you have with IBM [International Business Machines Corporation]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went to San Jose [California] and took one of their management courses out there in [computer] systems, and that helped me an awful lot. They were involved in developing these databases as well. Very good, very good people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any contact with Rockwell?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 35.37280618823672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was that same role, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The same thing, okay.\\n\\n What sort of interaction did you have with IBM [International Business Machines Corporation]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went to San Jose [California] and took one of their management courses out there in [computer] systems, and that helped me an awful lot. They were involved in developing these databases as well. Very good, very good people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any contact with Rockwell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In those days, too, yes, Rockwell wound up building [the] database."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of STS-1?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.144347185241156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they were long, very long. Arnie [Arnold D.] Aldrich chaired those, and it was a lot of various subjects to cover from one system to the other. Bob [Robert A.] Minor, Bob Minor was a software engineer out there at Rockwell in those days before he came here to Houston. He came in with a briefing one day and was about a couple inches thick. I said, “Bob, by definition, a briefing is supposed to be brief.” So anyway, he did a good job, and I told him afterwards, I said, “You know, that was really a good job you did, and if you’d have been selling tickets on the Titanic, I still think I would have bought one even knowing the ship was going to go down.” I don’t know if he took it as a compliment or not, but I meant it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the first flight had flown, what were your major duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t in operations then. I was planning for the next mission, I guess you’d say, but I had no real-time responsibilities during Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk to us about planning for the next few missions? What was your involvement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, again, it was to be sure that the performance, the weight and performance and all, was adequate and we had the right margins. One time Bob [Robert F.] Thompson was the Shuttle Program Manager and I said, “You’re overweight in this particular area.”\\n\\n And he says, “No, we’re not overweight. We have negative margin. We’ll work it out.” [Laughs] So that’s when I learned the term negative margin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that you retired from NASA in 1982."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 34.604830205823504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t in operations then. I was planning for the next mission, I guess you’d say, but I had no real-time responsibilities during Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk to us about planning for the next few missions? What was your involvement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, again, it was to be sure that the performance, the weight and performance and all, was adequate and we had the right margins. One time Bob [Robert F.] Thompson was the Shuttle Program Manager and I said, “You’re overweight in this particular area.”\\n\\n And he says, “No, we’re not overweight. We have negative margin. We’ll work it out.” [Laughs] So that’s when I learned the term negative margin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that you retired from NASA in 1982."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us why you decided to retire at that point?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 21.345572635000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the first flight where we had the Rover, and they had the TV camera there to take the picture of the ascent. Ed was controlling this camera on the Rover from the control center, and so he wanted us to calculate what angle and rate he had to go to track this thing as it went up, so we ran the trajectory and where he was parked and that sort of thing, and gave him the data. “Oh, it can’t go that fast.” I said, “Ed, the result is done by the same folks that did the lunar descent trajectories and everything, and I have great confidence in them that they know what they’re doing.” I said, “If you don’t want to use it, don’t use it.” I mean, it wasn’t affecting my ascent. So he didn’t. So he cut the rates in about half, and this sequence of pictures taken off the camera [shows image] shows before the engine started, six-tenths of a second—two seconds. I lost this one. Anyway, at less than 3.7 seconds the ascent stage is gone, and he’s still looking at the descent stage.\\n\\n So on Apollo 16, he came around and wanted to know if we’d calculate it for him again, and I said, “Yeah, Ed. Are you going to use it?” [Laughter] And he did, and [he] tracked it beautifully."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s a character."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you returned back to Houston and started working for Rockwell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you start doing for them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.63035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think has been your most challenging milestone in your career with NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it’s definitely the lunar Apollo Program, yes. Like I say, with so many unknowns, and it’s something mankind had dreamed about all their lives and even us as kids, and we’re able to do that, yes, to be a part of that team was really great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure it must have been exciting for you, having that interest."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your most significant accomplishment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.8115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it’s definitely the lunar Apollo Program, yes. Like I say, with so many unknowns, and it’s something mankind had dreamed about all their lives and even us as kids, and we’re able to do that, yes, to be a part of that team was really great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure it must have been exciting for you, having that interest."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your most significant accomplishment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, it would be the designing of the descent trajectory, because I was in a unique position of working on it when it was a future mission and then working in the design and development of the hardware that went on it to make my trajectories work right, and then to go over and to be in a part of operations and see it operating right. And I think I contributed that way. because the operations people had been doing rendezvous in Gemini and this sort of thing, and they didn’t have a lot of expertise at that time in the powered flight maneuvers. They learned quickly, I’ll say that, but I felt like I was sort of a tutor to them as well as the astronauts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we close out today, I’d like to ask Sandra and Rebecca if they have any questions for you, if that’s okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00026:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 24.235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your most significant accomplishment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, it would be the designing of the descent trajectory, because I was in a unique position of working on it when it was a future mission and then working in the design and development of the hardware that went on it to make my trajectories work right, and then to go over and to be in a part of operations and see it operating right. And I think I contributed that way. because the operations people had been doing rendezvous in Gemini and this sort of thing, and they didn’t have a lot of expertise at that time in the powered flight maneuvers. They learned quickly, I’ll say that, but I felt like I was sort of a tutor to them as well as the astronauts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we close out today, I’d like to ask Sandra and Rebecca if they have any questions for you, if that’s okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had one for you. When you were talking about your Landing Analysis Branch and you showed us your picture, you had twenty of you working together. Can you share with us a few more details—how twenty of you worked together, so many missions were going on at the same time, and planning, and how that was all coordinated and everyone had their own duties?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00561:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.699669126823004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you bet. I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully we'll never have to put much of that to test."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, hopefully the equipment that we work with—\"we worked with\"—I still talk as if I was still in the program, but, you know, I still know everybody and know what's going on. But anyway, and this is [something]…you try and impress on the new folks coming along, the equipment that we work on and that we use has to be able to immediately do what it's supposed to do, but you hope that it never has to be used for that purpose. It's kind of a funny feeling, but you don't want to ever know if it's going to fail. At least I don't. I don't want to know whether it worked or not. So let's keep it the way it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. Better to be prepared for whatever can happen and not have to find out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not have to use it. That's right. [Tape recorder turned off.]\\n\\n ["}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this interim time you also worked on the 8 psi hard suit. What were some of your duties in that regard?]"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00561:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.004757280941254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I think so. I believe so. It's easier to change out the parts. Now, please keep in mind that I haven't worked with this suit in several years, but from what I remember of it, it's easier to change the components in the hard suit. It's easier to use one set of hardware for more people in future missions, like you're going to be going to Mars and back to the moon, supposedly, and also on Space Station missions you're not going to have suit technicians up there to take care of the equipment. You're going to have to have something that can be used, a minimum of suits and equipment for the maximum amount of people. I think the way that they're going now with this hard upper torso and things, the interchangeable components with the quick—well, use of piano wire, actually, to hold the pieces together, that makes it easier for people who are not trained suit technicians to change out the parts. In other words, the astronauts that are there are going to have to change the parts out to fit the next person that's going to use that suit, because everybody cannot have their own suit pre-fitted on Earth and taken to wherever they're going to have to take it. They're going to have to change out the parts where they are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Well, I guess we'll have to watch and see what happens."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess we will. Hopefully it'll happen in our lifetime—well, it will in yours, but it won't in mine, probably, but that's okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know. I think you've still got quite a few years ahead of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking at suits and differences, you also worked, when you were working with the Shuttle Program, on some of the Shuttle-Mir flights. Is that correct?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00561:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.560841423268059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess we will. Hopefully it'll happen in our lifetime—well, it will in yours, but it won't in mine, probably, but that's okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know. I think you've still got quite a few years ahead of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking at suits and differences, you also worked, when you were working with the Shuttle Program, on some of the Shuttle-Mir flights. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I worked on some of those, not very many. Most of those, my rotation just didn't put me on them. I think I worked maybe two of those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the course of any of that work, did you get exposed at all to any of the Russian suits or differences, or maybe by working with some of the international members, having them compare some differences?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00561:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.845379359186731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking at suits and differences, you also worked, when you were working with the Shuttle Program, on some of the Shuttle-Mir flights. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I worked on some of those, not very many. Most of those, my rotation just didn't put me on them. I think I worked maybe two of those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the course of any of that work, did you get exposed at all to any of the Russian suits or differences, or maybe by working with some of the international members, having them compare some differences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "*I didn't get very involved with that at all. I saw the suit that Shannon [W.] Lucid had, and I saw another suit that one of the other—I think it was Jerry [M.] Linenger, his suit that he had. I saw the EV suit that they wear and was able to take a look at it, then I saw primarily the escape suits that they had for Shannon and for Jerry and for those folks. They're basically a full-pressure suit. Their entrance and closure is a little bit different than ours, but basically it's the same stuff. They've got gloves. They've got a suit. They've got a helmet. It all works basically the same. You get in it, you close it up, you pressurize it. That's about it. There are a lot of similarities, as I'm sure everybody would understand, people taking trade secrets from other people. It happens. It happened then. They copied a lot of our stuff. We may have gotten some ideas from them and put them into effect on ours. I don't know that for a fact, but I'm sure it probably happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking at the Shuttle-Mir Program, but also tying in a little bit with Apollo-Soyuz, even though you didn't work it, your background was with the Air Force, and you had been trained that Russia's the enemy, basically. How was the feeling when you began to work with them? Was it something you were surprised about, that it happened?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00561:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 12.39520353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you talked to Joe yet?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have talked with him about setting up an interview, but we haven't had one yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'll tell you what, you're in for an hour or two of pleasure when you start talking to that man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Looking back again over the course of your career, would you ever have imagined where it would end up and where it would lead you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Early in my career I had no idea that I would be doing today what I'm doing, but in the late sixties and early seventies, I knew that what I was doing before I retired is what I wanted to do, so I worked toward that goal. That's the reason I went to work for ILC when I retired. That's one of the reasons that I went to recruiting school and recruited people for the Air Force for two and a half years. That wasn't the most enjoyable experience I ever had, by the way, but I knew that that's what I wanted to do. But as far as way back in my early Air Force career, I had no idea that that would ever happen.\\n\\n From '70 on, I knew that if I had anything to do with it, I was going to be a NASA suit technician, and that's the way it ended up. Whether that's a lofty goal or just one down here somewhere, that was it, and we made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's great. You mentioned ILC, and I think I missed that earlier. You worked with them briefly before you did come on as a NASA suit technician."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00561:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.7473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so. I hope I made some kind of little dent in the program somewhere along the line."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's on the books for now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Man, I've been working so hard since I retired. I retired in January, and I've been remodeling my house and now I'm remodeling my garage. I'm about half through with it. After that, I'm not sure. I'm going to try to not have to work for somebody. I'm just going to try to just do what I want to do. If it works out that I need to go to work for somebody, I'm sure I still have enough friends here and there that know how I work and what I do that I could probably get back into aerospace if I wanted to. I have no immediate plans to return to work. I'm going to enjoy my retirement and do my family projects and home projects and help raise my grandchildren, and that's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds like a good deal to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pursue my hobbies. I fish and I play a little bit of golf and work on little projects. I have little garden, vegetable garden, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds great to me."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00561:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Man, I've been working so hard since I retired. I retired in January, and I've been remodeling my house and now I'm remodeling my garage. I'm about half through with it. After that, I'm not sure. I'm going to try to not have to work for somebody. I'm just going to try to just do what I want to do. If it works out that I need to go to work for somebody, I'm sure I still have enough friends here and there that know how I work and what I do that I could probably get back into aerospace if I wanted to. I have no immediate plans to return to work. I'm going to enjoy my retirement and do my family projects and home projects and help raise my grandchildren, and that's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds like a good deal to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pursue my hobbies. I fish and I play a little bit of golf and work on little projects. I have little garden, vegetable garden, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds great to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little community service. I have one committee that I'm on. I live in Webster, and I'm on the Parks, Recreation, and Beautification Board there. So I get to say a little bit about what happens in town there, and I may do some more volunteer work. I've always wanted to build at least one house in this Habitat for Humanity program, so I may get involved in at least one of those, because I've developed some skills recently that can be used there in doing that project at the house. You know, things like that. Other than that, I'm going to enjoy the rest of what I've got left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seems like a good plan."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00561:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 8.33, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pursue my hobbies. I fish and I play a little bit of golf and work on little projects. I have little garden, vegetable garden, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds great to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little community service. I have one committee that I'm on. I live in Webster, and I'm on the Parks, Recreation, and Beautification Board there. So I get to say a little bit about what happens in town there, and I may do some more volunteer work. I've always wanted to build at least one house in this Habitat for Humanity program, so I may get involved in at least one of those, because I've developed some skills recently that can be used there in doing that project at the house. You know, things like that. Other than that, I'm going to enjoy the rest of what I've got left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seems like a good plan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's a plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back at Apollo and Skylab, I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about some of the differences between the training you did with the astronauts in Apollo and what you did in Skylab."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 44.48821266139178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From April 2010 to June of 2012."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and what project or sector did you work in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a health volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So Kelli, to start off with, why did you join the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 38.32023629043531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From April 2010 to June of 2012."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and what project or sector did you work in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a health volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So Kelli, to start off with, why did you join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had this moment, my freshman year of college, where I just desperately needed to decide that day what I was going to do for the rest of my life. And it was actually Super Bowl Sunday. And I didn't know that because I don't care about sports. So I was just online like Googling nonspecific job opportunities. And I had just dropped my second major, which was social work, because I didn't think I thought it would be too heartbreaking. So I knew I wanted to help people and I knew I wanted to live somewhere that was not the U.S. for at least some time in my life.\n\nSo I Googled something like jobs, helping people, other countries. And that took me to the Peace Corps website. And I spent maybe four or five minutes on the website. I never knew any returned volunteers. I didn't know a lot about the Peace Corps. And I was like, that's what I'm doing. And I called my mom during the Super Bowl. My parents are sports fans, so they were watching the football game. And I said, I'm going to join the Peace Corps when I graduate from college. And she said something like, that's, no, that's too far away. Don't do that. And then she said, actually, can we talk about this later, after the game? And I was like, oh, is there a football game today? And she's like, it's the Super Bowl. And I was like, oh yeah, no. We’ve got a couple of years to talk about it. Just thought I'd give you a heads up. And then I just kind of stuck with it and applied and joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take you from? Did you apply right then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 47.47631864257244, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I applied after my junior year. It was from the time that I hit apply on the application on the website until I got on a plane, it was a year and nine months. That was back when the applications took a little longer and you couldn't, like, apply to a specific country or job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was, I left in 2010."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And what college did you graduate from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Abilene Christian University. Mostly I just wanted to buy myself time after college to figure out what I was going to do with my life. And it worked, I figured it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your upbringing like? Did you see things in your life before Peace Corps that shaped that decision or that shaped your shaped your service? Did you travel much?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.64035404730271, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was, I left in 2010."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And what college did you graduate from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Abilene Christian University. Mostly I just wanted to buy myself time after college to figure out what I was going to do with my life. And it worked, I figured it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your upbringing like? Did you see things in your life before Peace Corps that shaped that decision or that shaped your shaped your service? Did you travel much?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had never traveled. When I was in college in preparation for joining the Peace Corps, I did like a lot of work to kind of pad my resume, to make them want me more. I studied abroad in England and in Ireland. That was the first time I left the country. So growing up, I grew up in East Texas, in a city called Tyler, Texas, and, I had a really cool family and it was really nice, but I always wanted to live in another country. I was just always really interested in that. And even as a kid, I would always tell my parents that I was emigrating. I was just going to go somewhere else. And especially in the winter, it was east Texas. The winters were not bad. I just have a low tolerance for it. I would say I'm moving to the equator. And actually I did Peace Corps Response too, and I impulse applied to a Peace Corps Response one cold February day. I’m moving to the equator! And then I did move to the equator. Yeah, I just always wanted to do, I always wanted to live in another country and the career path I'd been on. Well, as an adult and also all the things that interested me as a kid, were like helping professions, so it was inevitable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know where you were going when you applied or when you were three months before you left even?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 23, "return_to_go": 46.26706005255856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Abilene Christian University. Mostly I just wanted to buy myself time after college to figure out what I was going to do with my life. And it worked, I figured it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your upbringing like? Did you see things in your life before Peace Corps that shaped that decision or that shaped your shaped your service? Did you travel much?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had never traveled. When I was in college in preparation for joining the Peace Corps, I did like a lot of work to kind of pad my resume, to make them want me more. I studied abroad in England and in Ireland. That was the first time I left the country. So growing up, I grew up in East Texas, in a city called Tyler, Texas, and, I had a really cool family and it was really nice, but I always wanted to live in another country. I was just always really interested in that. And even as a kid, I would always tell my parents that I was emigrating. I was just going to go somewhere else. And especially in the winter, it was east Texas. The winters were not bad. I just have a low tolerance for it. I would say I'm moving to the equator. And actually I did Peace Corps Response too, and I impulse applied to a Peace Corps Response one cold February day. I’m moving to the equator! And then I did move to the equator. Yeah, I just always wanted to do, I always wanted to live in another country and the career path I'd been on. Well, as an adult and also all the things that interested me as a kid, were like helping professions, so it was inevitable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know where you were going when you applied or when you were three months before you left even?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, so I applied. At that time, you could tell them like three parts of the world that you wanted to, like that were your preference, your top three, but you couldn't give them like a country or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you remember what your top three were?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.12110966706076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, after I applied. He contacted me and started sending me emails and letting me know what was next in the process, and at the time you still had to mail everything in and get it back by mail. It's a lot more streamlined now. But, yeah, he contacted me and we did my interview in his office. He was in Dallas and I was in Abilene, so I had to drive like three hours to Dallas and I stayed with my brother the night before the interview. And the office was in this big government building in downtown Dallas and I was like 21 at the time. And my brother offered just to take the day off and drive me to the interview. He was like, I don't want you to have to drive in downtown Dallas, having never lived here, and then going into an interview. I'll just drive you. And he did. It was very sweet. And then he took me to breakfast after because I was too nervous to eat. Yeah. But I hear they do interviews like over the phone now. Which sounds really nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of questions did the interviewer ask you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The interviewer asked. It was mostly just have you considered all of these things, have you considered living really far away from your family? And what are you going to do when, uh, you don't know many people and all that? Yeah, just wanted to make sure that I really thought it through. And I answered that, like, you answer any of your questions for your first job out of college. I just told him yes to everything. Yeah, no, totally, it'll be fine. And, and then he asked me about my relationship status and if I needed a relationship worksheet and I was super single, so it was fine. Yeah, he just wanted to know if I had considered everything. And I definitely thought that I had. So I told him, yeah, totally, I know everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long was it from your interview to when you got your invitation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, I want to say, like a little more than a year, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a long time."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.680382305013286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, I want to say, like a little more than a year, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a long time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got, oh, I got something else before that though. Oh, my nomination came like maybe a month later. Which did not include a country or a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, there was that. I was preparing for most of my college career since I knew I wanted to do the Peace Corps, for a good job in the Peace Corps. I looked through all the Peace Corps jobs. And community development sounded really interesting to me, so I took a couple of jobs in community development and neighborhood relations and I minored in community development for a second and then dropped it. Um, but then I ended up being nominated to education, which I didn't have experience in, and then ended up being a health volunteer in a school. So I was a guidance and counseling teacher, which in Botswana, guidance and counseling is a subject in school.\n\nIt's really cool. You don't get any grades or have any homework. You just have an adult you can talk to you about stuff, and you talk about things you need to know for life, like a life skills class. And that also included sex ed, which is why it fell under health, because everyone in Botswana, all the Peace Corps volunteers in Botswana, I think from the early 2000s, were health volunteers. We'd been there since they got their independence and then in the late ‘90s, they were doing really well. They have a really strong economy. They're really proud of their not being corrupt. And they're like, you know what, use your resources other places, we're doing fine. But the HIV pandemic hit really hard in Botswana and so they invited us back. And everyone was just health sector and in different working in different capacities, but all in health. When I was there, it was somewhere around 25 percent of the population, one in four, had HIV. When I checked most recently, it was down to like 21 to 23, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One in 22 or 23?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.64486922779254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got, oh, I got something else before that though. Oh, my nomination came like maybe a month later. Which did not include a country or a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, there was that. I was preparing for most of my college career since I knew I wanted to do the Peace Corps, for a good job in the Peace Corps. I looked through all the Peace Corps jobs. And community development sounded really interesting to me, so I took a couple of jobs in community development and neighborhood relations and I minored in community development for a second and then dropped it. Um, but then I ended up being nominated to education, which I didn't have experience in, and then ended up being a health volunteer in a school. So I was a guidance and counseling teacher, which in Botswana, guidance and counseling is a subject in school.\n\nIt's really cool. You don't get any grades or have any homework. You just have an adult you can talk to you about stuff, and you talk about things you need to know for life, like a life skills class. And that also included sex ed, which is why it fell under health, because everyone in Botswana, all the Peace Corps volunteers in Botswana, I think from the early 2000s, were health volunteers. We'd been there since they got their independence and then in the late ‘90s, they were doing really well. They have a really strong economy. They're really proud of their not being corrupt. And they're like, you know what, use your resources other places, we're doing fine. But the HIV pandemic hit really hard in Botswana and so they invited us back. And everyone was just health sector and in different working in different capacities, but all in health. When I was there, it was somewhere around 25 percent of the population, one in four, had HIV. When I checked most recently, it was down to like 21 to 23, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One in 22 or 23?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. 22 or 23 percent. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's closer to one in five."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.436541832099023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "O-o-o! It’s a lot of tongue waggling. You stick your tongue out of your mouth and go back and forth and make a loud noise. That's what the women do. And the men do this like low grunting. O-o-o. And then when they're really excited, women will get up and dance and they kind of come over and dance around you. And it's really fun and it's really cool. And it was my favorite thing for the years that I lived there. But the abrupt introduction to that when I was feeling culture shock for the very first time and just realizing I had left the country was, it was a lot. And I was like, I don't know what to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this in the morning after you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this is a few days later. We had a couple of days just to wake up to adjust to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, acclimate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it was in the evening and I got matched with my family and my host mom was young. She was maybe like nine or 10 years older than I was at the time. She was in her early thirties and she had three kids who were such sweethearts. And she was really nice. And my host dad was really nice. And they're a great family. And I think it was just my host mom who came to the ceremony and she was so sweet. And the thing I really love about Botswana, one, is that they're a very affectionate culture and I'm a really affectionate person. So she grabbed my hand and walked me back to my seat and sat down like put her hands on my legs. And she was just talking to me and then leaning over me to talk to her friends. And it was just really casual and easy. And she told me what my Setswana name was, which that whole day I had to keep asking her what my name was. It was Tumisang, which means to proclaim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get that name?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.92949092455447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this is a few days later. We had a couple of days just to wake up to adjust to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, acclimate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it was in the evening and I got matched with my family and my host mom was young. She was maybe like nine or 10 years older than I was at the time. She was in her early thirties and she had three kids who were such sweethearts. And she was really nice. And my host dad was really nice. And they're a great family. And I think it was just my host mom who came to the ceremony and she was so sweet. And the thing I really love about Botswana, one, is that they're a very affectionate culture and I'm a really affectionate person. So she grabbed my hand and walked me back to my seat and sat down like put her hands on my legs. And she was just talking to me and then leaning over me to talk to her friends. And it was just really casual and easy. And she told me what my Setswana name was, which that whole day I had to keep asking her what my name was. It was Tumisang, which means to proclaim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get that name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She picked it before she met me. Yeah, they just told them to pick a name for their volunteer, like before they were introduced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What language was she speaking to you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.366101027282744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it was in the evening and I got matched with my family and my host mom was young. She was maybe like nine or 10 years older than I was at the time. She was in her early thirties and she had three kids who were such sweethearts. And she was really nice. And my host dad was really nice. And they're a great family. And I think it was just my host mom who came to the ceremony and she was so sweet. And the thing I really love about Botswana, one, is that they're a very affectionate culture and I'm a really affectionate person. So she grabbed my hand and walked me back to my seat and sat down like put her hands on my legs. And she was just talking to me and then leaning over me to talk to her friends. And it was just really casual and easy. And she told me what my Setswana name was, which that whole day I had to keep asking her what my name was. It was Tumisang, which means to proclaim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get that name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She picked it before she met me. Yeah, they just told them to pick a name for their volunteer, like before they were introduced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What language was she speaking to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "English. Their official language is English. So everybody knows English. And that's like the business language of, everybody learned English in school. And as a teacher, I was required to teach in English. But their national language is Setswana. So that's everybody's first language and that's how everybody talks to their family and their friends and like when they're out in public. But usually when they saw me, they would switch to English because they just assume. I mean, they were right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn any Setswana?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.962334474758604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She picked it before she met me. Yeah, they just told them to pick a name for their volunteer, like before they were introduced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What language was she speaking to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "English. Their official language is English. So everybody knows English. And that's like the business language of, everybody learned English in school. And as a teacher, I was required to teach in English. But their national language is Setswana. So that's everybody's first language and that's how everybody talks to their family and their friends and like when they're out in public. But usually when they saw me, they would switch to English because they just assume. I mean, they were right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn any Setswana?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I tried. I learned a little bit of Setswana. I can make small talk and Setswana and ask for directions and order lunch and tell the classroom to be quiet and pay attention. But I had English as such a crutch that I didn't learn it very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps teach you any Setswana or was it all?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.18037163862067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "English. Their official language is English. So everybody knows English. And that's like the business language of, everybody learned English in school. And as a teacher, I was required to teach in English. But their national language is Setswana. So that's everybody's first language and that's how everybody talks to their family and their friends and like when they're out in public. But usually when they saw me, they would switch to English because they just assume. I mean, they were right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn any Setswana?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I tried. I learned a little bit of Setswana. I can make small talk and Setswana and ask for directions and order lunch and tell the classroom to be quiet and pay attention. But I had English as such a crutch that I didn't learn it very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps teach you any Setswana or was it all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they taught us so much Setswana. Our trainings, so to go back to how we arrived. So usually Peace Corps training is three months, but ours was only two months, and we had four hours of Setswana classes in the morning. Sometimes six, usually four. And then four hours in the afternoon of HIV education and sometimes more specific to what field we were in. Like I was in high school, so they were teaching us life skills stuff. But, yeah, it's a Bantu language, which I didn't know that was even a kind of language. I feel like, I don't know, French or Spanish or whatever, I have at least heard some of those words before. But with Setswana, I had never heard anyone speak, so I didn't know it was a language, I didn't know was a language class, which is embarrassing. So, so many people speak Bantu languages in the world. But yeah, it's not. Like in the scope of languages, it's not a terribly difficult language to learn. But because they had absolutely no context and I don't know any other languages, I don't know about like how to learn languages. I did a terrible job with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the alphabet the same?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.374995389054417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Um, there's some different noises that we don't have, which took me a long time. There's one that's kind of guttural, like a grr, which I didn't learn until I got a cold and I was like, this helps. But there's the TL noise. And that took me, there's a TL and a THL and I would say it with some just some kids in my neighborhood. Kids are really wonderful language teachers, and they'd be like, tl, thl, and they sound the same. And they're like, they're different. And I'm like, they sound the same! And they'd be like, no, listen. And I'm like, no, that sounds the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A slight variation on click."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what you said there were 57 people in your group. Were there different sectors that was it broken into, two or three or how many different sectors was the group broken into?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were four. So let’s see if I can remember them. This is a funny thing, there was a community outreach one, which was what I was prepared for, and they were at like clinics and they were doing social work with nurses and social workers. And then there was the DAC office, what did that stand for? District AIDS Council, I think. So they were like in a government position and they worked with like funding HIV and AIDS projects. And then the fourth one was NGO. They worked with nonprofits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was all under the health sector?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.861105987838242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what you said there were 57 people in your group. Were there different sectors that was it broken into, two or three or how many different sectors was the group broken into?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were four. So let’s see if I can remember them. This is a funny thing, there was a community outreach one, which was what I was prepared for, and they were at like clinics and they were doing social work with nurses and social workers. And then there was the DAC office, what did that stand for? District AIDS Council, I think. So they were like in a government position and they worked with like funding HIV and AIDS projects. And then the fourth one was NGO. They worked with nonprofits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was all under the health sector?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were all health volunteers because like I said, Botswana is doing really well as a country, but they just need a lot of help with AIDS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The AIDS crisis. And what did you learn in your technical training? You spent the morning in language and then you spent the afternoon in technical training. What was that like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.512339986486936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were four. So let’s see if I can remember them. This is a funny thing, there was a community outreach one, which was what I was prepared for, and they were at like clinics and they were doing social work with nurses and social workers. And then there was the DAC office, what did that stand for? District AIDS Council, I think. So they were like in a government position and they worked with like funding HIV and AIDS projects. And then the fourth one was NGO. They worked with nonprofits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was all under the health sector?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were all health volunteers because like I said, Botswana is doing really well as a country, but they just need a lot of help with AIDS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The AIDS crisis. And what did you learn in your technical training? You spent the morning in language and then you spent the afternoon in technical training. What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We just learned about HIV. I hadn't had any experience with HIV. And they asked me to get some volunteer experience with HIV and I went and volunteered at an AIDS resource center. But that was like packing up condom packets to hand out and then like volunteering in the food pantry. So I didn't actually learn a lot about the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interacting with patients or the community?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.124822207207703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were all health volunteers because like I said, Botswana is doing really well as a country, but they just need a lot of help with AIDS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The AIDS crisis. And what did you learn in your technical training? You spent the morning in language and then you spent the afternoon in technical training. What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We just learned about HIV. I hadn't had any experience with HIV. And they asked me to get some volunteer experience with HIV and I went and volunteered at an AIDS resource center. But that was like packing up condom packets to hand out and then like volunteering in the food pantry. So I didn't actually learn a lot about the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interacting with patients or the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or learn anything about HIV. So it was a lot learning about the disease, learning about how it spread, learning to teach people how to keep themselves safe. And then we also just learned a lot about the culture and how to talk about a taboo topic in a culture. They didn't have words in Setswana for a lot of the sex things that we were talking about, they only spoke about them in English. Like I think they did not say sex at all, they said sharing blankets. And they didn't have a word for condom, they just use the word for sock. So a lot of what we did was just getting people comfortable talking about it, because that's what you have to do with HIV education, is that you first have to be comfortable talking about HIV. And I have worked in HIV education since in the U.S. and my Response tour was in Guyana, and that is true everywhere, that it's just really hard to get people to talk. And a lot of your job in HIV education is getting people comfortable with talking about it before you can have genuine conversations about it. I was really lucky. I had teenagers, so they were young and open-minded and I would ask them what adults they could talk to. And they said, we cannot talk to adults about this. It's not OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your training helped you handle those situations, know what to do in those situations?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.11909767792552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they taught us some, well, my training was for education. So they taught us like ways to teach this to kids and like games that you can play. And even with adults that I mean. People like fun, interactive education, so we learned like games to play, to make people comfortable touching condoms and talking about condoms and then just doing condom demonstrations and how to, like, use that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give an example of one of the games or interaction that you played?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think one was like blowing up a condom as big as it would go. I think one was like getting as many objects into a condom as you could. And then there was one, oh, this one I really like. That was a line up. And I use this since like in the U.S., where you just print out each step of using a condom on a different sheet of paper and then have everyone hold one step and then they're not allowed to speak, but they have to put themselves in order of how it goes. And it's like get consent. I have opened the condom. All these different things until they're in order and they all have to switch and not talk to each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who taught your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had language teachers who were. They're really fun. I feel like, if you think about pre-service training like summer camp, which is a really easy parallel, I feel like the language teachers are like the cool counselors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they local?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.46566408658391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think one was like blowing up a condom as big as it would go. I think one was like getting as many objects into a condom as you could. And then there was one, oh, this one I really like. That was a line up. And I use this since like in the U.S., where you just print out each step of using a condom on a different sheet of paper and then have everyone hold one step and then they're not allowed to speak, but they have to put themselves in order of how it goes. And it's like get consent. I have opened the condom. All these different things until they're in order and they all have to switch and not talk to each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who taught your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had language teachers who were. They're really fun. I feel like, if you think about pre-service training like summer camp, which is a really easy parallel, I feel like the language teachers are like the cool counselors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they local?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were local. Um, they were are a lot of fun. And they did this all the time and yeah, they're really easy to get along with. And the technical training was taught by either currently serving Peace Corps volunteers would come in every once in a while and teach a session on things that they found work really well. And I did that in my later years, too. And sometimes there were staff members, sometimes they had outside professionals come in and teach us things. They had a former minister of health come in. Her name was Sheila Tlou, and she was, I think, my favorite speaker ever. And she just gave us some context on, like the history of Botswana. She had been the minister of health, so she knew some things about it. But, yeah, all kinds of people came in and taught."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you how long had Peace Corps been in that country, was that training fairly well developed by the time you got there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 21.628515651759898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had language teachers who were. They're really fun. I feel like, if you think about pre-service training like summer camp, which is a really easy parallel, I feel like the language teachers are like the cool counselors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they local?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were local. Um, they were are a lot of fun. And they did this all the time and yeah, they're really easy to get along with. And the technical training was taught by either currently serving Peace Corps volunteers would come in every once in a while and teach a session on things that they found work really well. And I did that in my later years, too. And sometimes there were staff members, sometimes they had outside professionals come in and teach us things. They had a former minister of health come in. Her name was Sheila Tlou, and she was, I think, my favorite speaker ever. And she just gave us some context on, like the history of Botswana. She had been the minister of health, so she knew some things about it. But, yeah, all kinds of people came in and taught."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you how long had Peace Corps been in that country, was that training fairly well developed by the time you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had been there since ‘63 when Botswana got their independence from England. I think they left in ‘97 and then started again in 2003, maybe. Don’t quote me on that. So, yeah, they've been around for a minute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your staff, the Peace Corps staff, were they familiar with the country, were they experienced or new? Or good? Did they interact with the volunteers at all?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.498423489955643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the Peace Corps staff is in the capital, Gaborone. And then our training was in a village Molepolole, which is one of the maybe the biggest village, which is, I want to say, like an hour from the capital. I think the staff commuted in, which is brutal, but. Yeah, that's where our training was, and then I was placed in a village called Thamaga, which was like halfway between Molepolole and Gaborone. So I just kind of stayed on this one little, lived in this one little region. But I got to travel all over the country and it's a beautiful country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would love to hear more about the country. Did you travel during training at all, or were you just kind of seeing that one area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So our training was really cool in that we got to, I think maybe the third week, fourth week of training, we get to spend a whole week shadowing another volunteer. So they just sent us to a currently serving volunteer’s house. And we stayed in their house and we ate all our meals with them and we went to work with them and we just saw what life was like as a volunteer. And that was really great because I had no idea what to expect at all. And even if you just ask any currently serving volunteer what to expect, they'll all tell you, don't have expectations. It's all so different. And it's, I mean, it's in all places all over the world. So it's all going to be really different and even village to village and job to job. So that was one place that I got to travel. And that was also just like 45 minutes from our training site. And then our sixth or seventh week, we got to go to our actual site that we would be at for the next two years and just like go see our job, meet our coworkers, stay in our house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big is Botswana?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's about the size of Texas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so everybody traveled out from the training village. That must have taken a long time for some people to get to their site."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.109359433284048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So our training was really cool in that we got to, I think maybe the third week, fourth week of training, we get to spend a whole week shadowing another volunteer. So they just sent us to a currently serving volunteer’s house. And we stayed in their house and we ate all our meals with them and we went to work with them and we just saw what life was like as a volunteer. And that was really great because I had no idea what to expect at all. And even if you just ask any currently serving volunteer what to expect, they'll all tell you, don't have expectations. It's all so different. And it's, I mean, it's in all places all over the world. So it's all going to be really different and even village to village and job to job. So that was one place that I got to travel. And that was also just like 45 minutes from our training site. And then our sixth or seventh week, we got to go to our actual site that we would be at for the next two years and just like go see our job, meet our coworkers, stay in our house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big is Botswana?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's about the size of Texas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so everybody traveled out from the training village. That must have taken a long time for some people to get to their site."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for me, it was like 30 minutes, wasn’t long at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name of your village?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.677066036982277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's about the size of Texas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so everybody traveled out from the training village. That must have taken a long time for some people to get to their site."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for me, it was like 30 minutes, wasn’t long at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name of your village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thamaga. Yeah, but some people had to, like, stay overnight somewhere because there's not roads everywhere. Some people were going all the way to the opposite side of the country. And so they have like less days of actual shadowing just because it took them so long to get that back. For me, it was like I got there before work started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel when you got your assignment and realized it was so close to where you'd been doing your training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 15.196740041091418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for me, it was like 30 minutes, wasn’t long at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name of your village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thamaga. Yeah, but some people had to, like, stay overnight somewhere because there's not roads everywhere. Some people were going all the way to the opposite side of the country. And so they have like less days of actual shadowing just because it took them so long to get that back. For me, it was like I got there before work started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel when you got your assignment and realized it was so close to where you'd been doing your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was actually really excited because we had driven through that village on our way to visit like a historical site or something like that, and it is such a beautiful place. Like, where we were staying, a large majority of the country is in the Kalahari Desert, so it's mostly just flat. But my village had all these beautiful rock formations and we had stopped in at that village because they had a famous pottery shop, Botsewelo Pottery. And we like stopped in and some people got some pottery and we like walked around like, oh it’s cool. And then I found out that my house was actually on the compound of that pottery shop, so I actually visited basically my front yard before I left. It was just like, it was still pretty big. It was like twenty thousand people. It's a really beautiful geographically, just like kind of a sleepy little village. I really liked it. I'm not going to say at first, I wasn't a little disappointed that I wasn’t like all the way up north in that river delta where it's gorgeous and there's like elephants in your backyard. But I did really love my assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your what was your host family like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.872071386956678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My host family was really sweet. I had a 14 year old little brother named Poncho and an eight year old little sister, Mompon. And I think she like one or two year old little sister named Mickey. And they are great. My little brother was like, he was just so sweet and just such a good kid. And he cooked dinner for us every night. And I walked in one night and he was like, I asked what he was making for dinner. And he said, I'm making liver. And I was like, oh, good. And they had hosted volunteers for years. And he's like, it's okay, I know Americans don't like liver, I'm cooking you something else. And I was like, Poncho, you're my hero. And I was like, what are you making me? And he said, intestines. And I was like, okay, well thanks buddy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Get over it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your living situation like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were supposed to have, like in our home stay families, we were supposed to have our own room and that was a stipulation. So all five of them slept in one room. And then I had my own room. They all slept in one room in the same bed. And I can't imagine, like trying to sleep with that many people, but they did it every night and they seemed fine with it. We had one bathroom, we had running water and electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your house made out of, what was your house made out of?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.968968207729642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your living situation like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were supposed to have, like in our home stay families, we were supposed to have our own room and that was a stipulation. So all five of them slept in one room. And then I had my own room. They all slept in one room in the same bed. And I can't imagine, like trying to sleep with that many people, but they did it every night and they seemed fine with it. We had one bathroom, we had running water and electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your house made out of, what was your house made out of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cinder block and a tin roof, my home stay family. My house, my actual house that I lived in was so, so much nicer than I was expecting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your home stay family?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.187742453032936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were supposed to have, like in our home stay families, we were supposed to have our own room and that was a stipulation. So all five of them slept in one room. And then I had my own room. They all slept in one room in the same bed. And I can't imagine, like trying to sleep with that many people, but they did it every night and they seemed fine with it. We had one bathroom, we had running water and electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your house made out of, what was your house made out of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cinder block and a tin roof, my home stay family. My house, my actual house that I lived in was so, so much nicer than I was expecting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your home stay family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was just during training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just during training. So when you left training and went to your village, you had your own?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.541936058925483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cinder block and a tin roof, my home stay family. My house, my actual house that I lived in was so, so much nicer than I was expecting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your home stay family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was just during training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just during training. So when you left training and went to your village, you had your own?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My own whole house on the compound of the pottery shop. And there was just like a rock formation to one side and a church on the other side and a pottery shop and then a road. So I didn't actually have any neighbors, which is has its pros and cons. But it was this big two bedroom house. It was pink, which was fine. And then I had a just like a bare concrete floor. It had a lot of cracks and the ants would come up through and I would have to sweep the ants out of my house like two or three times a day because there were just so many of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they bite?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.824373398806092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was just during training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just during training. So when you left training and went to your village, you had your own?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My own whole house on the compound of the pottery shop. And there was just like a rock formation to one side and a church on the other side and a pottery shop and then a road. So I didn't actually have any neighbors, which is has its pros and cons. But it was this big two bedroom house. It was pink, which was fine. And then I had a just like a bare concrete floor. It had a lot of cracks and the ants would come up through and I would have to sweep the ants out of my house like two or three times a day because there were just so many of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they bite?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope, just kind of took over. It was just during the winter that they would be around. But most of the time it was fine. And then the two bedrooms had a thatched roof, which keeps it really cool and the house really nice. And then I had two bathrooms. One had just the toilet in it and the other one had the shower and the sink in it and a shower. That one, with the shower and the sink, had a window in it to another room that was the storeroom for the pottery shop. And that room, like it was one of the rooms in my house, but I couldn't get to it. And it just had like a door from the outside. It was also connected to my bedroom. So I would hear them in there like working during the day, like talking and gossiping. And I only took showers after business hours because of that. But when I would go in there to wash my hands or something, they'd be like, good morning Tumisang! And I was like, hey how’s it going? And I had a kitchen with a sink and a stove and an oven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does Tumisang mean?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.249303776451212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My own whole house on the compound of the pottery shop. And there was just like a rock formation to one side and a church on the other side and a pottery shop and then a road. So I didn't actually have any neighbors, which is has its pros and cons. But it was this big two bedroom house. It was pink, which was fine. And then I had a just like a bare concrete floor. It had a lot of cracks and the ants would come up through and I would have to sweep the ants out of my house like two or three times a day because there were just so many of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they bite?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope, just kind of took over. It was just during the winter that they would be around. But most of the time it was fine. And then the two bedrooms had a thatched roof, which keeps it really cool and the house really nice. And then I had two bathrooms. One had just the toilet in it and the other one had the shower and the sink in it and a shower. That one, with the shower and the sink, had a window in it to another room that was the storeroom for the pottery shop. And that room, like it was one of the rooms in my house, but I couldn't get to it. And it just had like a door from the outside. It was also connected to my bedroom. So I would hear them in there like working during the day, like talking and gossiping. And I only took showers after business hours because of that. But when I would go in there to wash my hands or something, they'd be like, good morning Tumisang! And I was like, hey how’s it going? And I had a kitchen with a sink and a stove and an oven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does Tumisang mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To proclaim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's your name."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.610337529390236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope, just kind of took over. It was just during the winter that they would be around. But most of the time it was fine. And then the two bedrooms had a thatched roof, which keeps it really cool and the house really nice. And then I had two bathrooms. One had just the toilet in it and the other one had the shower and the sink in it and a shower. That one, with the shower and the sink, had a window in it to another room that was the storeroom for the pottery shop. And that room, like it was one of the rooms in my house, but I couldn't get to it. And it just had like a door from the outside. It was also connected to my bedroom. So I would hear them in there like working during the day, like talking and gossiping. And I only took showers after business hours because of that. But when I would go in there to wash my hands or something, they'd be like, good morning Tumisang! And I was like, hey how’s it going? And I had a kitchen with a sink and a stove and an oven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does Tumisang mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To proclaim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's your name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My name. Yeah, or they would call me Tumi. That's the nickname. Or when you're calling someone like to have them come over to you, you put ‘way’ at the end. So instead of knocking, people would just stand on my front porch and yell my name. They’d go, Tumi! Tumisang! Tumiway! Tumi! Until I came to the door. I was like, you can just knock, it’s fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you pay rent to the people who owned the pottery shop then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.12259725487804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To proclaim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's your name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My name. Yeah, or they would call me Tumi. That's the nickname. Or when you're calling someone like to have them come over to you, you put ‘way’ at the end. So instead of knocking, people would just stand on my front porch and yell my name. They’d go, Tumi! Tumisang! Tumiway! Tumi! Until I came to the door. I was like, you can just knock, it’s fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you pay rent to the people who owned the pottery shop then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah. My landlady was also the manager of the pottery shop. She was fierce, she was on top of anything that I ever needed help with, which, that wasn't the situation with all of the other volunteers, that people like the landlords with take care of things, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did everybody live in their own house or have their own house?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.802885838753376, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My name. Yeah, or they would call me Tumi. That's the nickname. Or when you're calling someone like to have them come over to you, you put ‘way’ at the end. So instead of knocking, people would just stand on my front porch and yell my name. They’d go, Tumi! Tumisang! Tumiway! Tumi! Until I came to the door. I was like, you can just knock, it’s fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you pay rent to the people who owned the pottery shop then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah. My landlady was also the manager of the pottery shop. She was fierce, she was on top of anything that I ever needed help with, which, that wasn't the situation with all of the other volunteers, that people like the landlords with take care of things, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did everybody live in their own house or have their own house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Everybody had their own house. Trying to make sure that was true. Some people had apartments and married couples shared a house, but yeah, everybody had their own place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the rest of your group like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.11431759861486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah. My landlady was also the manager of the pottery shop. She was fierce, she was on top of anything that I ever needed help with, which, that wasn't the situation with all of the other volunteers, that people like the landlords with take care of things, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did everybody live in their own house or have their own house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Everybody had their own house. Trying to make sure that was true. Some people had apartments and married couples shared a house, but yeah, everybody had their own place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the rest of your group like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The rest of my group was a lot of fun. There were so many of us that, like after training, everybody went to their own parts of the country and it was kind of hard to get to. So whenever we had like an in-service training or mid-service training, it was just a big party because we were so excited to see everybody. And sometimes I think there is a part of the country that was easier for me to get to, it was only like five and a half hours on a bus, so I’d go up and visit them sometimes. But when we wanted to get together, because we all had our own houses, we would just like to have a party and invite everybody. And people would come in on Saturday and then just like spend the night on Saturday night and then go back on Sunday. But it was really fun. It was like, it was like an adult slumber party. People just put their sleeping bags on the floor and we'd hang out and cook a really fancy dinner. Yeah, my group was great. I'm still friends with some of them and they were wonderful. One of the older volunteers sends me an email every year on my birthday. It's really sweet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How close was the closest volunteer to you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.460352887349845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Everybody had their own house. Trying to make sure that was true. Some people had apartments and married couples shared a house, but yeah, everybody had their own place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the rest of your group like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The rest of my group was a lot of fun. There were so many of us that, like after training, everybody went to their own parts of the country and it was kind of hard to get to. So whenever we had like an in-service training or mid-service training, it was just a big party because we were so excited to see everybody. And sometimes I think there is a part of the country that was easier for me to get to, it was only like five and a half hours on a bus, so I’d go up and visit them sometimes. But when we wanted to get together, because we all had our own houses, we would just like to have a party and invite everybody. And people would come in on Saturday and then just like spend the night on Saturday night and then go back on Sunday. But it was really fun. It was like, it was like an adult slumber party. People just put their sleeping bags on the floor and we'd hang out and cook a really fancy dinner. Yeah, my group was great. I'm still friends with some of them and they were wonderful. One of the older volunteers sends me an email every year on my birthday. It's really sweet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How close was the closest volunteer to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there were two really close volunteers. One was like 20 minutes in one direction and the other was like 30 minutes in the other direction. One of my friends lived, my closest friend, like she was my best friend there, lived in Molepolole which was like 30 minutes away. And then another very close volunteer, geographically and emotionally, was like 20 minutes away. And yeah, it's really easy to get to both of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you, what transportation did you use?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.506608502901043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there were two really close volunteers. One was like 20 minutes in one direction and the other was like 30 minutes in the other direction. One of my friends lived, my closest friend, like she was my best friend there, lived in Molepolole which was like 30 minutes away. And then another very close volunteer, geographically and emotionally, was like 20 minutes away. And yeah, it's really easy to get to both of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you, what transportation did you use?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took. So there's like just a regular bus or something. We called it a kombi. It has different names. It's like a 16 passenger van, like I don't know, if you had a really big family, what you would drive. But it was like some of the seats would flip up and you could get to the back and then put the seat back down and there would just be like a lot of maybe more people than it sat in there. And sometimes there would be some poultry or a stranger's baby you were holding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you find those vans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They drove by, you just flag them down. I was also very lucky in that I lived on a major road that went through my village. So like a lot of people would have to walk 30 minutes to get to a bus stop. But I could see the bus stop from my window, So I’d see the bus coming and just run outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to your place of work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.11845389211227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took. So there's like just a regular bus or something. We called it a kombi. It has different names. It's like a 16 passenger van, like I don't know, if you had a really big family, what you would drive. But it was like some of the seats would flip up and you could get to the back and then put the seat back down and there would just be like a lot of maybe more people than it sat in there. And sometimes there would be some poultry or a stranger's baby you were holding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you find those vans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They drove by, you just flag them down. I was also very lucky in that I lived on a major road that went through my village. So like a lot of people would have to walk 30 minutes to get to a bus stop. But I could see the bus stop from my window, So I’d see the bus coming and just run outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to your place of work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I walked. It's like a 30 minute walk, over some rock formations, and through some deep sand, and passing some donkeys and goats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there roads?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.909393213458078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They drove by, you just flag them down. I was also very lucky in that I lived on a major road that went through my village. So like a lot of people would have to walk 30 minutes to get to a bus stop. But I could see the bus stop from my window, So I’d see the bus coming and just run outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to your place of work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I walked. It's like a 30 minute walk, over some rock formations, and through some deep sand, and passing some donkeys and goats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there roads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were roads. But not in the direction that I was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your village layout like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.343770237175642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I walked. It's like a 30 minute walk, over some rock formations, and through some deep sand, and passing some donkeys and goats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there roads?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were roads. But not in the direction that I was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your village layout like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I’m trying to decide how to answer that. So there's a big road that went like north and south through the middle of town. And then my house was just to the east of that road, right next to it, and then right behind my house was Thamaga Hill, just a gigantic, beautiful rock formation. And it was the tallest point in Thamaga, which really helped. So any time I wandered too far from my house, I could just, like, turn around and look for that and then walk towards it. And then that's also where the pottery shop was. There's a church out there. There is like the police station was just across the street. And the one carry-out place was right there. And all the government entities were right there. So like, if I had a problem with my water bill or something else, like a five minute walk to go talk to them. And then my school, like I said, it was like a 30 minute walk east of that road. And then west of that road wasn't anything really pertinent to my life. So I just went running over there. But otherwise I didn't really know a lot about that side of town. And then I actually I had a grocery store like a full-blown grocery store in my village, and it was like a mile south of my house. It's just like a quick 15 minute walk there and back. And it had like all the produce meat and canned goods and whatever you need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you cook? What did you eat while you were there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.151878077106666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really starchy. It was just like some kind of mountain of starch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like potatoes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no, like rice or something called phaletšhe, which everybody was really into and even other volunteers and I just never could get into. It's like some kind of cornstarch and water. And you just boil it until it's like a playdoh consistency. And they just like, put that lump on your plate and then you pick up your other food with it. And there's just so much, it's just so many carbs. And I'm like, don't get me wrong. I love carbs, but it's a lot. So there is that. And there is like, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Vegetables, fruits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the thing about vegetables is, that weren’t a lot of vegetables because it's a desert. But then occasionally my host family would be like, we're having salad tonight and I would be so excited. And sometimes salad means fresh vegetables, but sometimes salad also just means something covered in mayonnaise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like chicken salad?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.946531196785184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, no, like rice or something called phaletšhe, which everybody was really into and even other volunteers and I just never could get into. It's like some kind of cornstarch and water. And you just boil it until it's like a playdoh consistency. And they just like, put that lump on your plate and then you pick up your other food with it. And there's just so much, it's just so many carbs. And I'm like, don't get me wrong. I love carbs, but it's a lot. So there is that. And there is like, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Vegetables, fruits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the thing about vegetables is, that weren’t a lot of vegetables because it's a desert. But then occasionally my host family would be like, we're having salad tonight and I would be so excited. And sometimes salad means fresh vegetables, but sometimes salad also just means something covered in mayonnaise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like chicken salad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, like chicken salad or like a coleslaw or beet salad. It's just shredded beets and mayonnaise. And I'm like, I don't know. I was really sick halfway through my pre-service training. And our Peace Corps medical officer was like, does your family wash vegetables before they serve them to you when you eat raw vegetables? And I was like, I don't think I've had a raw vegetable since I got here. And he’s like, eat some vegetables, easy fix. So I started just like sneaking off to the grocery store and eating some raw vegetables. I was just like craving a good salad. The vegetable kind, not the mayonnaise kind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it expensive to buy food there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.718367996427983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the thing about vegetables is, that weren’t a lot of vegetables because it's a desert. But then occasionally my host family would be like, we're having salad tonight and I would be so excited. And sometimes salad means fresh vegetables, but sometimes salad also just means something covered in mayonnaise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like chicken salad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, like chicken salad or like a coleslaw or beet salad. It's just shredded beets and mayonnaise. And I'm like, I don't know. I was really sick halfway through my pre-service training. And our Peace Corps medical officer was like, does your family wash vegetables before they serve them to you when you eat raw vegetables? And I was like, I don't think I've had a raw vegetable since I got here. And he’s like, eat some vegetables, easy fix. So I started just like sneaking off to the grocery store and eating some raw vegetables. I was just like craving a good salad. The vegetable kind, not the mayonnaise kind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it expensive to buy food there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was pretty cheap. And oh, they also, so I grew up in Texas and they said that Botswana was the Texas of Africa. Like, what does that even mean? They had a really big cattle industry. They also had, this is just really interesting. They had a, have still, a metal cowboy music scene. So it's like a subculture and there are people who dress in like full leather cowboy outfits. Which, it's a hundred degrees, it's so terrible to wear leather. The first leather cowboy that I saw was on like a five-hour bus ride. Nobody opened the windows because that's how you catch the flu. As the health volunteer, I contested that a lot. But, yeah. And he was just fine, I guess. I don't know. But yeah, they were really into metal music. And they have a metal cowboy festival every year in the middle of the desert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's crazy. How did that happen?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.687075551586645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, like chicken salad or like a coleslaw or beet salad. It's just shredded beets and mayonnaise. And I'm like, I don't know. I was really sick halfway through my pre-service training. And our Peace Corps medical officer was like, does your family wash vegetables before they serve them to you when you eat raw vegetables? And I was like, I don't think I've had a raw vegetable since I got here. And he’s like, eat some vegetables, easy fix. So I started just like sneaking off to the grocery store and eating some raw vegetables. I was just like craving a good salad. The vegetable kind, not the mayonnaise kind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it expensive to buy food there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was pretty cheap. And oh, they also, so I grew up in Texas and they said that Botswana was the Texas of Africa. Like, what does that even mean? They had a really big cattle industry. They also had, this is just really interesting. They had a, have still, a metal cowboy music scene. So it's like a subculture and there are people who dress in like full leather cowboy outfits. Which, it's a hundred degrees, it's so terrible to wear leather. The first leather cowboy that I saw was on like a five-hour bus ride. Nobody opened the windows because that's how you catch the flu. As the health volunteer, I contested that a lot. But, yeah. And he was just fine, I guess. I don't know. But yeah, they were really into metal music. And they have a metal cowboy festival every year in the middle of the desert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's crazy. How did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How did that happen? Hard to say. What were we talking about before I got caught up on the metal cowboys?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Food, I think. Oh, cost of living."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.366795908999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where to find me and what I was doing. You know, I didn't have to explain to anyone what the Peace Corps was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do most people have cars?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, well, a lot of people had cars. I don't know. I don't know how to answer that question. They expected me to have a car because they assumed that I had money. I didn't. That was hard to explain to people that I didn't have money. Also just came out of college. So I like literally, I didn't have any savings at all. So whatever my food allowance was for that month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much was your allowance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. It's been too long. It was enough. I never went hungry. They covered my rent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you go on vacations or take time off and travel?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.407551009999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, well, a lot of people had cars. I don't know. I don't know how to answer that question. They expected me to have a car because they assumed that I had money. I didn't. That was hard to explain to people that I didn't have money. Also just came out of college. So I like literally, I didn't have any savings at all. So whatever my food allowance was for that month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much was your allowance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. It's been too long. It was enough. I never went hungry. They covered my rent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you go on vacations or take time off and travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I feel like Peace Corps is really generous with the amount of vacation days that you get. So I traveled well, like on weekends, sometimes I would go see my buddies in other villages, but I traveled to Namibia when I'd been there for a year. We took a week vacation to Namibia. It was awesome. The country was so great. And then I went to Zambia a couple of times because I loved it so much. And by the end of my service, I had like three weeks of vacation left over, like I wasn't never taking vacation, but I just had so much of it. And two of my buddies also had three weeks of vacation. So we took the last three weeks before our close of service conference, which is the last time you can take any vacation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is, what, a couple of months before you actually leave service?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00099:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.61, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cultural exchange. Yeah. It's something more experienced volunteers told me a lot. They were like, you know, two of the three goals are cultural exchange. So even if you don't feel like you're accomplishing your goals at site, if you're talking to people and you're sharing things, you learn something about their country, they learn something about your country, then you're doing most of what you're here for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are goals two and three."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about hard things? Are there big lessons that you learned or a project that you started that didn't work or regrets or anything you want to talk about for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh gosh. A really hard thing for me was living alone. Like I said, that's not something I usually do and I wasn't used to it, and it was a big learning curve. But I think that was probably the best thing for me at that time in my life, even though it was really hard after I had lived alone for a few months. I kind of fell into a pattern of it and it gave me a lot of self- reflection time. And I think being outside of your own culture teaches you a lot about yourself and what is you and what is your culture and what your values are, and I think, yeah. That was a really hard thing. Especially just learning a new culture is really hard. So all of those and then, I mean, being a young woman in a developing country, like women all over the world have it really hard. So that was tough, just trying to learn how to navigate those situations and, in turn, teaching my students, teaching my male students how to respect women and teaching my female students that they deserve to be respected. That was really tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you had a lot of impact on the people that you worked with, especially your students. How did Peace Corps impact you and the choices you've made about your post Peace Corps life?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.579847297682267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, of course not. And probably most of the guys didn’t at—you know, in the early days. When I was growing up, “astronaut” wasn’t even in our vocabulary. Nor was “cosmonaut.” Nobody even thought about that. Ironically, when I graduated from college in 1951, the Korean War was going on and I was—had a military service obligation. Decided to go in the Navy and learn how to fly, which I did in Pensacola. Took my—went to Pensacola, Florida, in that Fall of 1951. And ironically enough, at the time I was going through preflight school I hadn’t even met an airplane yet! This—some gentleman came by and was going to give a presentation in the auditorium. And they marched little cadets over there; and this guy was talking about space and hotels and orbiting objects and this sort of thing. And we all thought he was a little bit off his rocker; a little bit kooky. His name was Wernher von Braun. Yeah. Funny how that—what goes around comes around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—I assume that you got to know him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, eventually, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was during the program, when I was here. But I never had any inkling that this was going to be a career. I fell in love with airplanes, and—after I met him, and chose to make that my career as opposed to going back to school and getting advanced degrees. So, that’s how that all came about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your bitter disappointment the first time when you weren’t selected in that second group more of the competitive nature of—I mean it was just you hated to lose?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.97760810853585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, eventually, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was during the program, when I was here. But I never had any inkling that this was going to be a career. I fell in love with airplanes, and—after I met him, and chose to make that my career as opposed to going back to school and getting advanced degrees. So, that’s how that all came about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your bitter disappointment the first time when you weren’t selected in that second group more of the competitive nature of—I mean it was just you hated to lose?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I—knowing most of the guys. Knowing the people that were involved in the Mercury Program. It was one of disappointment. I think when you’re in those kinds of processes, you evaluate yourself in looking around at who the other individuals are. And you know, there are test pilots and there are test pilots. And that sort of thing. And you place your skill. You try to figure out where you are within that group; and if you devalue yourself, then you’re not doing yourself a very big favor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you were selected in ’63."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.530675676150945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was during the program, when I was here. But I never had any inkling that this was going to be a career. I fell in love with airplanes, and—after I met him, and chose to make that my career as opposed to going back to school and getting advanced degrees. So, that’s how that all came about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your bitter disappointment the first time when you weren’t selected in that second group more of the competitive nature of—I mean it was just you hated to lose?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I—knowing most of the guys. Knowing the people that were involved in the Mercury Program. It was one of disappointment. I think when you’re in those kinds of processes, you evaluate yourself in looking around at who the other individuals are. And you know, there are test pilots and there are test pilots. And that sort of thing. And you place your skill. You try to figure out where you are within that group; and if you devalue yourself, then you’re not doing yourself a very big favor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you were selected in ’63."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. October of ’63."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now because I don’t know—okay. So, you were selected basically, you know, a month before Kennedy’s assassination, right? But you were selected and you were aware of—obviously you weren’t at his speech that he had given at Rice University declaring, “We’re going to go to the Moon.”"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 27.8156489829024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. October of ’63."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now because I don’t know—okay. So, you were selected basically, you know, a month before Kennedy’s assassination, right? But you were selected and you were aware of—obviously you weren’t at his speech that he had given at Rice University declaring, “We’re going to go to the Moon.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. As a matter of fact, I believe Gene [Eugene A.] Cernan and I were in post-graduate school together. We flew to Houston after the selection. We were looking for real estate, where we were going to move our families. It was at that time, I may have been the very day that President Kennedy was killed. What? November 22nd?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to go back and look at my flight log to make sure that it was that time. But it was right at that time that we were flying here to Houston to buy some real estate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you weren’t an astronaut at the time that he made the speech, though, saying “We’re going to go to the Moon,” was it something that you remember following in the news? Did you have a reaction to it of this challenge?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.350721092113776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. As a matter of fact, I believe Gene [Eugene A.] Cernan and I were in post-graduate school together. We flew to Houston after the selection. We were looking for real estate, where we were going to move our families. It was at that time, I may have been the very day that President Kennedy was killed. What? November 22nd?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to go back and look at my flight log to make sure that it was that time. But it was right at that time that we were flying here to Houston to buy some real estate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you weren’t an astronaut at the time that he made the speech, though, saying “We’re going to go to the Moon,” was it something that you remember following in the news? Did you have a reaction to it of this challenge?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I thought there was another crazy guy like Wernher von Braun that—Alan [B.] Shepard [Jr.] flew in May 5th, 1961. Twenty days later, we hadn’t even been in orbit yet, and here’s a young, vigorous President challenging the American people to go to the Moon before the decade was over! You know, how do you do that? We hadn’t even been in orbit! We didn’t know if men could survive for that length of time. We had a pretty good idea that we would, but there were those in the medical profession that kept throwing up straw men. We had to prove that we could do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, when you were selected, did you realize, like, “I think I might be one of the people to help us go to the Moon?” I mean, was that what you thought was the goal?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 27.056356769015306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to go back and look at my flight log to make sure that it was that time. But it was right at that time that we were flying here to Houston to buy some real estate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you weren’t an astronaut at the time that he made the speech, though, saying “We’re going to go to the Moon,” was it something that you remember following in the news? Did you have a reaction to it of this challenge?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I thought there was another crazy guy like Wernher von Braun that—Alan [B.] Shepard [Jr.] flew in May 5th, 1961. Twenty days later, we hadn’t even been in orbit yet, and here’s a young, vigorous President challenging the American people to go to the Moon before the decade was over! You know, how do you do that? We hadn’t even been in orbit! We didn’t know if men could survive for that length of time. We had a pretty good idea that we would, but there were those in the medical profession that kept throwing up straw men. We had to prove that we could do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, when you were selected, did you realize, like, “I think I might be one of the people to help us go to the Moon?” I mean, was that what you thought was the goal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I—well, yeah. Obviously that was it. At that time, they had not started the Gemini Program. Mercury was just winding down. And that was the whole purpose. That was why we were selected to participate in that program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now others have talked about the climate at the time, which it’s very hard for us to imagine now just what that Cold War environment was like and the fear and the—I’m sure you find it hard to believe that we’re now friends and teamed up with Russia. I’m sure you never thought you’d see us working with them in space."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.958465146932475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I—well, yeah. Obviously that was it. At that time, they had not started the Gemini Program. Mercury was just winding down. And that was the whole purpose. That was why we were selected to participate in that program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now others have talked about the climate at the time, which it’s very hard for us to imagine now just what that Cold War environment was like and the fear and the—I’m sure you find it hard to believe that we’re now friends and teamed up with Russia. I’m sure you never thought you’d see us working with them in space."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I think probably not at that time, because it was a Cold War and it was a race. In the ’50s, at the heights of the Cold War, when Hungary and those things were going on—the Suez Canal—I was on the Coral Sea, an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean, observing a lot of those happening and it was in fact a war. Philosophically, politically, economically, any other way you want to claim it. And this is one of the difficult aspects of today, is trying to relate that atmosphere that existed in those days. People don’t even believe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you feel like you were a warrior in a war, even as an astronaut? That you were fighting a war to get to the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a sense, sure. We were—the space race was real. We were in a race to go to the Moon. We wanted to be better than the Communist country, the Soviet Union at that time. And one of the ways that we could show we were a better society was to challenge them and do the things that we did. You bet!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you were first became an astronaut, I understand that you were on before even Gemini, you were on this Apollo design group. And helping design the spacecraft, I take it: command module and—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.064961274369416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I think probably not at that time, because it was a Cold War and it was a race. In the ’50s, at the heights of the Cold War, when Hungary and those things were going on—the Suez Canal—I was on the Coral Sea, an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean, observing a lot of those happening and it was in fact a war. Philosophically, politically, economically, any other way you want to claim it. And this is one of the difficult aspects of today, is trying to relate that atmosphere that existed in those days. People don’t even believe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you feel like you were a warrior in a war, even as an astronaut? That you were fighting a war to get to the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a sense, sure. We were—the space race was real. We were in a race to go to the Moon. We wanted to be better than the Communist country, the Soviet Union at that time. And one of the ways that we could show we were a better society was to challenge them and do the things that we did. You bet!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you were first became an astronaut, I understand that you were on before even Gemini, you were on this Apollo design group. And helping design the spacecraft, I take it: command module and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the lunar module."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and the lunar module. What? From an astronaut’s perspective?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.40551252707713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a sense, sure. We were—the space race was real. We were in a race to go to the Moon. We wanted to be better than the Communist country, the Soviet Union at that time. And one of the ways that we could show we were a better society was to challenge them and do the things that we did. You bet!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you were first became an astronaut, I understand that you were on before even Gemini, you were on this Apollo design group. And helping design the spacecraft, I take it: command module and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the lunar module."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and the lunar module. What? From an astronaut’s perspective?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We—when we first came, we had ground school-type activity. We were in lectures and learning the phraseology and the business of space, I guess you might say. And then after a short period of time, when the second group had actually been assigned to flights in Gemini, we picked up the things that they were doing. And what they were doing, what that was, that we then took a particular portion of the program—boosters, communications, whatever. I had cockpit controls and displays. So, I had a overall view of things that were going on and what we needed to control particular systems in the vehicle. If we had to—we had the right information and the right switches where we could do that. That was my task, and it was an interim between first becoming acclimated to the community of space and before we became assigned to a flight crew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as part of that, my understanding is from what I read of the—your previous interview, that there were kind of three stages that you have your Preliminary Design Review, Critical Design Review, and then it would get manufactured. Take us through each of those steps and what was critical about each step, and what was your involvement in them."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 20.839493517379005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there was some of that probably. I think we had a—we were in a very unique position where we had an audience. And I think there was probably some attitudes that were portrayed, that people listened to what we had to say, and I think there was some resentment regarding that. A lot of it depends on personalities. You can rub people the wrong way sometime, but you can be effective in your own personality to get things done without ruffling a lot of feathers. So—but there was some animosity about the input that we were able to make above and beyond what maybe an engineer might be able to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and you mentioned the personalities. You know, I’ve heard you and Pete Conrad kind of described as, you know, “the cockiest.” I mean like a badge of honor, you know, that you wore this proudly, of being—what do you think that they—the historians mean when they write that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. But I’d probably plead guilty to it. Self-confidence, I think is what it really probably portrayed. It—we were better than anybody else? Sure we were!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you weren’t afraid to say it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we didn’t say it. We didn’t have to say it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned with the hatch design being something that obviously during the fire played a role, do you remember where you were when you got news of the fire and what your reaction was? If you could—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.82165946375445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. But I’d probably plead guilty to it. Self-confidence, I think is what it really probably portrayed. It—we were better than anybody else? Sure we were!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you weren’t afraid to say it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we didn’t say it. We didn’t have to say it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned with the hatch design being something that obviously during the fire played a role, do you remember where you were when you got news of the fire and what your reaction was? If you could—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. I was at the White House. Several of us had been invited by President [Lyndon B.] Johnson to be there and participate in the signing of the [United Nations Outer] Space Treaty with the Soviet Union. And I think Jim [James A.] Lovell, [L.] Gordon Cooper, possibly Neil [A.] Armstrong—I’m not quite sure; I don’t remember precisely that—and I was invited back because Neil and I had gotten to know President Johnson simply because he had sent us on a South American goodwill tour after my flight in—on Gemini XI. So, we were known to him on a personal—as was other people, I don’t mean to say that other people weren’t. But that probably led to my being there; and we were in the White House, at a reception after the signing of the Space Treaty when the word came in that there had been an accident at the Cape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know right away that it was a fatal accident?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.801843848616056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we didn’t say it. We didn’t have to say it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned with the hatch design being something that obviously during the fire played a role, do you remember where you were when you got news of the fire and what your reaction was? If you could—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. I was at the White House. Several of us had been invited by President [Lyndon B.] Johnson to be there and participate in the signing of the [United Nations Outer] Space Treaty with the Soviet Union. And I think Jim [James A.] Lovell, [L.] Gordon Cooper, possibly Neil [A.] Armstrong—I’m not quite sure; I don’t remember precisely that—and I was invited back because Neil and I had gotten to know President Johnson simply because he had sent us on a South American goodwill tour after my flight in—on Gemini XI. So, we were known to him on a personal—as was other people, I don’t mean to say that other people weren’t. But that probably led to my being there; and we were in the White House, at a reception after the signing of the Space Treaty when the word came in that there had been an accident at the Cape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know right away that it was a fatal accident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we did. I believe that we did. I think I recall leaving there, and I think we got—made some calls when we got back and found out that it was. When somebody comes in and says, “There’s been a tragedy at the Cape” or an accident, yeah, I think you kind of possibly suspect the worst. But we may not have known immediately. We found out very shortly thereafter. It was a very long evening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you think, “This is going to end the program.” “This is—we’ll recover.” What did you think right—?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.219264538567977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t give that too much thought on a personal basis. In our business, we lose friends all the time. Aviation—military aviation—is a risky business, and you go in those things with your eyes wide open. You know that there are risks involved. You lose a lot of friends along the way. My first four years in the Fleet, with two deployments in the Mediterranean we lost ten pilots in a squadron of 17. So, those are things—are acceptable. Or they go with the territory, you might say.\\n\\n So, those events you accept and you press on. And I don’t think any of us thought that the program was going to end at that time. We were still in a very significant race with the Soviet Union. And the Administrator at that time was James [E.] Webb, who did a tremendous job of carrying the ball along the way and making sure that the program would continue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see a change in the way the advice of astronauts was received by contractors and even NASA after the fire as opposed to before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think our inputs were the same. I—and I don’t mean to imply that everything we said was correct and everybody did what we wanted to do. Probably a lot of cases, they didn’t or couldn’t for a lot of reasons. One of them would be schedule. Cost. All of those things would have to be evaluated. And NASA had set up a very strict Change Control Board that made those evaluations, and a lot of our ideas were probably rejected. But no, I think most of the guys conducted themselves in a manner in which the suggestions they made were taken at face value."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I guess your work on the Apollo command module and lunar module was kind of interrupted by your assignment to a crew, which I guess your first assignment was a backup on Gemini VIII, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.132516153964419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think our inputs were the same. I—and I don’t mean to imply that everything we said was correct and everybody did what we wanted to do. Probably a lot of cases, they didn’t or couldn’t for a lot of reasons. One of them would be schedule. Cost. All of those things would have to be evaluated. And NASA had set up a very strict Change Control Board that made those evaluations, and a lot of our ideas were probably rejected. But no, I think most of the guys conducted themselves in a manner in which the suggestions they made were taken at face value."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I guess your work on the Apollo command module and lunar module was kind of interrupted by your assignment to a crew, which I guess your first assignment was a backup on Gemini VIII, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so, that interrupted—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.147240171071576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think our inputs were the same. I—and I don’t mean to imply that everything we said was correct and everybody did what we wanted to do. Probably a lot of cases, they didn’t or couldn’t for a lot of reasons. One of them would be schedule. Cost. All of those things would have to be evaluated. And NASA had set up a very strict Change Control Board that made those evaluations, and a lot of our ideas were probably rejected. But no, I think most of the guys conducted themselves in a manner in which the suggestions they made were taken at face value."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I guess your work on the Apollo command module and lunar module was kind of interrupted by your assignment to a crew, which I guess your first assignment was a backup on Gemini VIII, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so, that interrupted—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The best thing that ever happened to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you know, you’re training for that mission. What was the training like? I mean, what was your first reaction to going from this other job that you had to this active training? You’ve got a crewmate, etc.?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.052489078968419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so, that interrupted—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The best thing that ever happened to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you know, you’re training for that mission. What was the training like? I mean, what was your first reaction to going from this other job that you had to this active training? You’ve got a crewmate, etc.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first of all, your goal is to be assigned to a flight crew. Once you weren’t going to fly, the first step was to get assigned to a crew, a backup crew or whatever the case may be. So, I was actually elated to do that. Very pleased that I’d be working with Pete again as we were both the backup crew on Gemini VIII, backing up Neil Armstrong and Dave [David R.] Scott. It was my first involvement with the actual hardware, the Gemini vehicle and the things that we needed to train on to get ready for flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you in terms of Gemini VIII, when they had the problem during flight and the spacecraft, you know, started this uncontrolled spin, you—I take it you were in Mission Control."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.058321198853799, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The best thing that ever happened to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you know, you’re training for that mission. What was the training like? I mean, what was your first reaction to going from this other job that you had to this active training? You’ve got a crewmate, etc.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first of all, your goal is to be assigned to a flight crew. Once you weren’t going to fly, the first step was to get assigned to a crew, a backup crew or whatever the case may be. So, I was actually elated to do that. Very pleased that I’d be working with Pete again as we were both the backup crew on Gemini VIII, backing up Neil Armstrong and Dave [David R.] Scott. It was my first involvement with the actual hardware, the Gemini vehicle and the things that we needed to train on to get ready for flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you in terms of Gemini VIII, when they had the problem during flight and the spacecraft, you know, started this uncontrolled spin, you—I take it you were in Mission Control."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to that? I mean, what role did you play?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.953690220948666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first of all, your goal is to be assigned to a flight crew. Once you weren’t going to fly, the first step was to get assigned to a crew, a backup crew or whatever the case may be. So, I was actually elated to do that. Very pleased that I’d be working with Pete again as we were both the backup crew on Gemini VIII, backing up Neil Armstrong and Dave [David R.] Scott. It was my first involvement with the actual hardware, the Gemini vehicle and the things that we needed to train on to get ready for flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you in terms of Gemini VIII, when they had the problem during flight and the spacecraft, you know, started this uncontrolled spin, you—I take it you were in Mission Control."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to that? I mean, what role did you play?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was very little because most of it was done outside of any information that NASA had. I think the first thing we probably heard was they got into trouble. But Neil activated and Dave activated the reentry control system without knowledge of Houston. They did that on their own to control the spacecraft. Once they did that, they were coming home. There wasn’t any question. There wasn’t any argument about it. It was part of the Mission Rules that once the reentry control system was activated, the mission was essentially over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the climate in Mission Control? I mean, was it fear? Was it—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.837433578831849, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to that? I mean, what role did you play?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was very little because most of it was done outside of any information that NASA had. I think the first thing we probably heard was they got into trouble. But Neil activated and Dave activated the reentry control system without knowledge of Houston. They did that on their own to control the spacecraft. Once they did that, they were coming home. There wasn’t any question. There wasn’t any argument about it. It was part of the Mission Rules that once the reentry control system was activated, the mission was essentially over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the climate in Mission Control? I mean, was it fear? Was it—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I—there was a lot of the things went on without Mission Control’s knowledge because they were out of radio contact. And we heard—we knew that they had a problem. And the next thing we kind of discovered that they had to activate the reentry control system to recover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you didn’t really know what they were going through until they came back and told—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.819370643146499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was very little because most of it was done outside of any information that NASA had. I think the first thing we probably heard was they got into trouble. But Neil activated and Dave activated the reentry control system without knowledge of Houston. They did that on their own to control the spacecraft. Once they did that, they were coming home. There wasn’t any question. There wasn’t any argument about it. It was part of the Mission Rules that once the reentry control system was activated, the mission was essentially over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the climate in Mission Control? I mean, was it fear? Was it—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I—there was a lot of the things went on without Mission Control’s knowledge because they were out of radio contact. And we heard—we knew that they had a problem. And the next thing we kind of discovered that they had to activate the reentry control system to recover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you didn’t really know what they were going through until they came back and told—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think—I mean, you know, when you read it—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.910411825718333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I—there was a lot of the things went on without Mission Control’s knowledge because they were out of radio contact. And we heard—we knew that they had a problem. And the next thing we kind of discovered that they had to activate the reentry control system to recover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you didn’t really know what they were going through until they came back and told—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think—I mean, you know, when you read it—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least I should say that’s my recollection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. It sounds like a harrowing experience for them. I mean, in that—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.122679806353704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think—I mean, you know, when you read it—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least I should say that’s my recollection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. It sounds like a harrowing experience for them. I mean, in that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably was. The roll rates were becoming very, very excessive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And from what I’ve read, it could cause blackout. And the fact—do you think the fact that Neil Armstrong was able to handle that emergency, I mean, just your opinion, played any role in him winding up being on Apollo 11?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.744049143646546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably was. The roll rates were becoming very, very excessive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And from what I’ve read, it could cause blackout. And the fact—do you think the fact that Neil Armstrong was able to handle that emergency, I mean, just your opinion, played any role in him winding up being on Apollo 11?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None whatsoever. That whole decision was arbitrary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not a conscious decision that they were, in fact, going to be the first crew. That was the way the way the dice were rolled, and the crew assignments were made. And Deke [Donald K. Slayton] had a system where you essentially rotated every three flights. And that’s the way the cookie crumbled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you say “rotated,” you mean you were the backup crew and then three flights later—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.795122399563637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not a conscious decision that they were, in fact, going to be the first crew. That was the way the way the dice were rolled, and the crew assignments were made. And Deke [Donald K. Slayton] had a system where you essentially rotated every three flights. And that’s the way the cookie crumbled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you say “rotated,” you mean you were the backup crew and then three flights later—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The prime, backup, prime if you stayed on that crew. And in my case, that’s exactly the way it happened. Backup on [Gemini] VIII, prime on Gemini XI, backup on Apollo 9, prime on [Apollo] 12. Backup on Apollo 15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had no Apollo 18."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re going to get to that. I’m saving that. I know you have some feelings about that. So, you go to prime. You go from backup on VIII to being prime on XI. And you’re training for this EVA [extravehicular activity], and people had already had problems with EVA. Take—you know, forget about what happened on your EVA because we’re going to talk about that. But I don’t want you to have that perspective. I don’t want you to think about the problems when you talk about the training. And what was your training like in terms of factoring in previous astronauts’ experience, and, you know, how did you prepare?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.87052148094276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had no Apollo 18."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re going to get to that. I’m saving that. I know you have some feelings about that. So, you go to prime. You go from backup on VIII to being prime on XI. And you’re training for this EVA [extravehicular activity], and people had already had problems with EVA. Take—you know, forget about what happened on your EVA because we’re going to talk about that. But I don’t want you to have that perspective. I don’t want you to think about the problems when you talk about the training. And what was your training like in terms of factoring in previous astronauts’ experience, and, you know, how did you prepare?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Number one: I don’t think we did a very good job of previous astronaut experiences with EVA. I didn’t learn about some of their problem until well after books were written—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—to be perfectly frank about it. And I guess there’s probably a logical reason for that. We didn’t have enough time really to assimilate the information or we didn’t grasp the significance of the information that was being brought back. Now, remember: we were on 2-month launch centers. It was almost like just passing each other to and from the pad. And there wasn’t a great deal of opportunity to assimilate the information from previous flights. So, I don’t think we did a very good job of transmitting to each other the things that were happening. And in the training for XI, I certainly didn’t anticipate any problems with the EVA. As a matter of fact, the training we did was basically in a zero-g airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t remember any discussion about handholds, footholds, any—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.519162322151556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—to be perfectly frank about it. And I guess there’s probably a logical reason for that. We didn’t have enough time really to assimilate the information or we didn’t grasp the significance of the information that was being brought back. Now, remember: we were on 2-month launch centers. It was almost like just passing each other to and from the pad. And there wasn’t a great deal of opportunity to assimilate the information from previous flights. So, I don’t think we did a very good job of transmitting to each other the things that were happening. And in the training for XI, I certainly didn’t anticipate any problems with the EVA. As a matter of fact, the training we did was basically in a zero-g airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t remember any discussion about handholds, footholds, any—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope. We didn’t have any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If there had been discussions about that, we would have probably thought about it and said, “Hey, maybe we should supply some of these things.” As a matter of fact, it wasn’t until I read Gene Cernan’s book that I realized the problems he had handling an umbilical and free-floating outside the vehicle. I was totally aware of the problems he had of his face plate fogging over and everything in the night side pass when he was in fact back in the adapter section. And I didn’t realize Mike [Michael Collins] had all the difficulties he had on Gemini X, when he was free-floating over to the Agena spacecraft from VIII to get an emulsion package off of it. I didn’t realize at the time, if I knew it, it didn’t—I mean, it didn’t sink in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it didn’t lead to changes in your training as a result of things."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.132402580168395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope. We didn’t have any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If there had been discussions about that, we would have probably thought about it and said, “Hey, maybe we should supply some of these things.” As a matter of fact, it wasn’t until I read Gene Cernan’s book that I realized the problems he had handling an umbilical and free-floating outside the vehicle. I was totally aware of the problems he had of his face plate fogging over and everything in the night side pass when he was in fact back in the adapter section. And I didn’t realize Mike [Michael Collins] had all the difficulties he had on Gemini X, when he was free-floating over to the Agena spacecraft from VIII to get an emulsion package off of it. I didn’t realize at the time, if I knew it, it didn’t—I mean, it didn’t sink in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it didn’t lead to changes in your training as a result of things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, it sure didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Very interesting. There wasn’t any even discussion about, like, tethering yourself to, like, tie you down a little bit more to the spacecraft? Nothing like that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.813780644631549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If there had been discussions about that, we would have probably thought about it and said, “Hey, maybe we should supply some of these things.” As a matter of fact, it wasn’t until I read Gene Cernan’s book that I realized the problems he had handling an umbilical and free-floating outside the vehicle. I was totally aware of the problems he had of his face plate fogging over and everything in the night side pass when he was in fact back in the adapter section. And I didn’t realize Mike [Michael Collins] had all the difficulties he had on Gemini X, when he was free-floating over to the Agena spacecraft from VIII to get an emulsion package off of it. I didn’t realize at the time, if I knew it, it didn’t—I mean, it didn’t sink in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it didn’t lead to changes in your training as a result of things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, it sure didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Very interesting. There wasn’t any even discussion about, like, tethering yourself to, like, tie you down a little bit more to the spacecraft? Nothing like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. If we had tethers and had handrails and handholds, the task would’ve been easier. Except I had a problem with my EVA before I ever got out of the spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I take it that when you and Pete Conrad were training for Gemini XI, you spent a lot of time at the Cape and Cocoa Beach [Florida]. I just want you to kind of give us a sense of what that was like, I mean, in terms of the extracurricular activities and the—just what that area was like in terms of being at this place where everyone has this purpose of—you know, it’s basically a place created with this one space goal. And it kind of, you know, has this reputation; it’s like a wild, wild west town or something."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.570867382923944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, it sure didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Very interesting. There wasn’t any even discussion about, like, tethering yourself to, like, tie you down a little bit more to the spacecraft? Nothing like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. If we had tethers and had handrails and handholds, the task would’ve been easier. Except I had a problem with my EVA before I ever got out of the spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I take it that when you and Pete Conrad were training for Gemini XI, you spent a lot of time at the Cape and Cocoa Beach [Florida]. I just want you to kind of give us a sense of what that was like, I mean, in terms of the extracurricular activities and the—just what that area was like in terms of being at this place where everyone has this purpose of—you know, it’s basically a place created with this one space goal. And it kind of, you know, has this reputation; it’s like a wild, wild west town or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was going to say it was a frontier town, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like, in a way, it was."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.412074869915493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. If we had tethers and had handrails and handholds, the task would’ve been easier. Except I had a problem with my EVA before I ever got out of the spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I take it that when you and Pete Conrad were training for Gemini XI, you spent a lot of time at the Cape and Cocoa Beach [Florida]. I just want you to kind of give us a sense of what that was like, I mean, in terms of the extracurricular activities and the—just what that area was like in terms of being at this place where everyone has this purpose of—you know, it’s basically a place created with this one space goal. And it kind of, you know, has this reputation; it’s like a wild, wild west town or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was going to say it was a frontier town, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like, in a way, it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a way, yes, it was. It was a concentration. It was a very, very—two attitudes. It was a very tense environment, because of the work and the pressures of work. And it was a relaxing place to be as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a party town?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.346749855461658, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was going to say it was a frontier town, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like, in a way, it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a way, yes, it was. It was a concentration. It was a very, very—two attitudes. It was a very tense environment, because of the work and the pressures of work. And it was a relaxing place to be as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a party town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you might say that if you wanted to. There was parties you could participate in. We made a lot of friends at the Cape, and we still have a lot of friends there that we still communicate. They’d have us to their homes and they’d throw parties. We were normal human beings, and we played hard and worked hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there this sense of just what it was that you guys were going to do? I mean, at the time you are really putting your lives on the line in a way. I mean, you know, you look at the early rocket launches and, you know, primarily before Mercury and—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.38527761717962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a way, yes, it was. It was a concentration. It was a very, very—two attitudes. It was a very tense environment, because of the work and the pressures of work. And it was a relaxing place to be as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a party town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you might say that if you wanted to. There was parties you could participate in. We made a lot of friends at the Cape, and we still have a lot of friends there that we still communicate. They’d have us to their homes and they’d throw parties. We were normal human beings, and we played hard and worked hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there this sense of just what it was that you guys were going to do? I mean, at the time you are really putting your lives on the line in a way. I mean, you know, you look at the early rocket launches and, you know, primarily before Mercury and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean, when things were blowing up?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes! I mean, was there that sense of, you know, “Wow! These guys are, you know, really something special.” Or—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.5391973524218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you might say that if you wanted to. There was parties you could participate in. We made a lot of friends at the Cape, and we still have a lot of friends there that we still communicate. They’d have us to their homes and they’d throw parties. We were normal human beings, and we played hard and worked hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there this sense of just what it was that you guys were going to do? I mean, at the time you are really putting your lives on the line in a way. I mean, you know, you look at the early rocket launches and, you know, primarily before Mercury and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean, when things were blowing up?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes! I mean, was there that sense of, you know, “Wow! These guys are, you know, really something special.” Or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think we felt that way. You know, I mentioned before that that was a risk of our occupation. We were involved in those kind of things. And we had so much confidence in ourselves and each other and the people that were involved in the program that, you know, we wouldn’t have gone if we thought we weren’t going to come back. I mean, that’s idiocy! And I think, those—what people thought outside the program, I have no idea really what they thought about. But yeah, we were in a very unique position in those kind of terms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—your first launch, you know, just describe what it was like to finally, like, launch."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 11.710219280468666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean, when things were blowing up?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes! I mean, was there that sense of, you know, “Wow! These guys are, you know, really something special.” Or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think we felt that way. You know, I mentioned before that that was a risk of our occupation. We were involved in those kind of things. And we had so much confidence in ourselves and each other and the people that were involved in the program that, you know, we wouldn’t have gone if we thought we weren’t going to come back. I mean, that’s idiocy! And I think, those—what people thought outside the program, I have no idea really what they thought about. But yeah, we were in a very unique position in those kind of terms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—your first launch, you know, just describe what it was like to finally, like, launch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had made several attempts to launch in Gemini XI. I think it may have been the third one, and our backup crew—Neil Armstrong and Bill [William A.] Anders—said this was our last chance. They were going to go next! And I think we were on, this was the third attempt that we had a launch on XI. I guess the real reality of those things, you’ve been trained for so long and so well that you’re really anxious to go. I mean, you know, “Let’s get the show on the road!”\\n\\n And in reality, when the show does hit the road it’s a lot easier than the training cycle, as far as those missions are. So, it’s kind of a release that you’re finally going to get to go. The adrenaline’s flowing. Sure you’re excited. It’s a great adventure, one that you’ve not experienced before. Other people have and they try to relate that to you a little bit, so you have a sense of what’s going to happen. But it’s all brand new!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like to have that experience of being the first one to try to dock with the Agena after just one orbit?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.70327584281156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If he hadn’t let me do that, I’d have thrown him out of the spacecraft!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you knew he was going to let you. Or was it on that mission manifest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t even recall whether it was or wasn’t. But I—in reflection, I fully anticipated I was going to get to do that. And I think—well, I practiced it. So, it must’ve been somewhere along in there—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—but I—he did several dockings, and I did a couple. More than one for sure. And just my first sense of flying a vehicle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that the experience of docking—I mean, obviously docking with the Agena, as you said, it was kind of a pathfinder for Apollo, for docking the command module with the LM [lunar module]. But did you find when you actually did that as a command module pilot in Apollo that there was a sense of familiarity? I mean, did it really help train you for what was to come?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.670306492012845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t even recall whether it was or wasn’t. But I—in reflection, I fully anticipated I was going to get to do that. And I think—well, I practiced it. So, it must’ve been somewhere along in there—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—but I—he did several dockings, and I did a couple. More than one for sure. And just my first sense of flying a vehicle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that the experience of docking—I mean, obviously docking with the Agena, as you said, it was kind of a pathfinder for Apollo, for docking the command module with the LM [lunar module]. But did you find when you actually did that as a command module pilot in Apollo that there was a sense of familiarity? I mean, did it really help train you for what was to come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh sure. I think it gives you a sense that there’s no perturbation. It’s very smooth. It’s very easily controlled. You make small inputs. It’s a very precise maneuver. Not difficult at all. And I think you have those sense and—well, you align the vehicles, even though they were different way to do that; we had a docking target in Apollo. We didn’t have that in Gemini, and we had docked with the Agena barely in a visual reference. But you get the nose of the Gemini about that far away [gestures] from the Agena and you can stop and just sit there and look at it. There’s no wind or no perturbations; nothing’s moving the spacecraft around. When it moves, you made it move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you’re docked with this and you’re doing your experiments. And then it comes time for your spacewalk. Walk us through the—you know, the spacewalk experience and when you started realizing you were having trouble and what it was like. What that—what do we mean by trouble?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.93873874716178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Because we weren’t ready for that kind of activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t have the foot restraints and the handholds."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not only the foot restraints. But we weren’t—you know, it wasn’t until Bruce McCandless finally went in the Shuttle Program, many, many years later, that we were successful in doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you—did you know—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we might’ve been in serious trouble if we had have gotten the backpacks on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really. But it—just the equipment wouldn’t have worked?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4874874968464225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not only the foot restraints. But we weren’t—you know, it wasn’t until Bruce McCandless finally went in the Shuttle Program, many, many years later, that we were successful in doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you—did you know—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we might’ve been in serious trouble if we had have gotten the backpacks on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really. But it—just the equipment wouldn’t have worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it probably worked. It would just—the manner in which zero-g and the laws of physics operate in space just as they do everywhere else in the universe. I think we could’ve had some real problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now— [Recorder turned off.]\n\nOkay. We were talking about the spacewalk and how we got into, to put it mildly, trouble. I’m curious. I mean, I’ve read and I’m sure you know, since you’re such good friends with Pete Conrad, that he has said that it was the scariest experience he ever had. And I mean, you know, we’re going to talk about Apollo 12 later. You all had a scare on Apollo 12. So, for him to say that his concern for you and your condition during that spacewalk was the scariest thing. And you know Pete. I don’t think you all scare easily. And I mean, what do you think about that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.097208329829358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we might’ve been in serious trouble if we had have gotten the backpacks on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really. But it—just the equipment wouldn’t have worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it probably worked. It would just—the manner in which zero-g and the laws of physics operate in space just as they do everywhere else in the universe. I think we could’ve had some real problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now— [Recorder turned off.]\n\nOkay. We were talking about the spacewalk and how we got into, to put it mildly, trouble. I’m curious. I mean, I’ve read and I’m sure you know, since you’re such good friends with Pete Conrad, that he has said that it was the scariest experience he ever had. And I mean, you know, we’re going to talk about Apollo 12 later. You all had a scare on Apollo 12. So, for him to say that his concern for you and your condition during that spacewalk was the scariest thing. And you know Pete. I don’t think you all scare easily. And I mean, what do you think about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hadn’t thought about it really. I’ve heard him make that comment; I heard that comment being made. And I think he knew the extremis, the situation that I was in, because he could hear the frustration, the voice, the breathing. If you go back and listen to those tapes, it scares me just to hear them! And I don’t know. I appreciate his concern. I think his concern if something happened to any of us on an EVA, if we had died or expired, we were an object in—we were a satellite in space, because he was coming back without us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was going to have to cut you loose."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.774675922032619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it probably worked. It would just—the manner in which zero-g and the laws of physics operate in space just as they do everywhere else in the universe. I think we could’ve had some real problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now— [Recorder turned off.]\n\nOkay. We were talking about the spacewalk and how we got into, to put it mildly, trouble. I’m curious. I mean, I’ve read and I’m sure you know, since you’re such good friends with Pete Conrad, that he has said that it was the scariest experience he ever had. And I mean, you know, we’re going to talk about Apollo 12 later. You all had a scare on Apollo 12. So, for him to say that his concern for you and your condition during that spacewalk was the scariest thing. And you know Pete. I don’t think you all scare easily. And I mean, what do you think about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hadn’t thought about it really. I’ve heard him make that comment; I heard that comment being made. And I think he knew the extremis, the situation that I was in, because he could hear the frustration, the voice, the breathing. If you go back and listen to those tapes, it scares me just to hear them! And I don’t know. I appreciate his concern. I think his concern if something happened to any of us on an EVA, if we had died or expired, we were an object in—we were a satellite in space, because he was coming back without us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was going to have to cut you loose."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. And we knew that going in. It was accepted, and I think he was—he probably was starting to have that concern. But once I got back to the hatch and stood there and rested a while—I just wanted to stop and catch my breath, which I did—I wanted to continue the EVA. But smarter people prevailed, and we ended the EVA right about that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, who made the decision? In—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.527417691147354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hadn’t thought about it really. I’ve heard him make that comment; I heard that comment being made. And I think he knew the extremis, the situation that I was in, because he could hear the frustration, the voice, the breathing. If you go back and listen to those tapes, it scares me just to hear them! And I don’t know. I appreciate his concern. I think his concern if something happened to any of us on an EVA, if we had died or expired, we were an object in—we were a satellite in space, because he was coming back without us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was going to have to cut you loose."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. And we knew that going in. It was accepted, and I think he was—he probably was starting to have that concern. But once I got back to the hatch and stood there and rested a while—I just wanted to stop and catch my breath, which I did—I wanted to continue the EVA. But smarter people prevailed, and we ended the EVA right about that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, who made the decision? In—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The ground made the decision. I mean, you agreed with it? Do—you and Pete didn’t argue?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.363797434608172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. And we knew that going in. It was accepted, and I think he was—he probably was starting to have that concern. But once I got back to the hatch and stood there and rested a while—I just wanted to stop and catch my breath, which I did—I wanted to continue the EVA. But smarter people prevailed, and we ended the EVA right about that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, who made the decision? In—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The ground made the decision. I mean, you agreed with it? Do—you and Pete didn’t argue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not in any position to argue about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the EVA only, what? about half an hour long or—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.181997149564635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The ground made the decision. I mean, you agreed with it? Do—you and Pete didn’t argue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not in any position to argue about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the EVA only, what? about half an hour long or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was 45 minutes. Something. I forget what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it seem to you? Longer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.9799968328495945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not in any position to argue about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the EVA only, what? about half an hour long or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was 45 minutes. Something. I forget what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it seem to you? Longer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "10 minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? So, it seemed—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.86666314761066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was 45 minutes. Something. I forget what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it seem to you? Longer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "10 minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? So, it seemed—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It went very fast. It went very fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it frustrating to you? I mean, do you remember what—I mean, you’ve said you’re somebody who—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.851847941789622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "10 minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? So, it seemed—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It went very fast. It went very fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it frustrating to you? I mean, do you remember what—I mean, you’ve said you’re somebody who—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was at the time. It was frustrating because it was a failure and we don’t like those things, even though our failures are our best teachers. And I think, you know, we learn more from failures and taking risks and saying, “Okay, you’re going to fail if you take risks.” And we learn from those. We learn how to overcome them. If we were successful all the time, we haven’t learned very much because it implies that we already knew how to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and really if you had found a way to make that work, you know, like wedging yourself in things that aren’t even designed to be footholds, in a way you could’ve just perpetuated what you admit was a pretty dangerous situation."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.6554841451160796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could have been, yes. And you’re right. If we had taken a step back and provided the tools, which we do today, and we later learned how to do it, and actually that failure in XI and the failures from IX and X and XI or the difficulties, let me put it that way, I don’t want to say “I can fail,” but I don’t want to say anybody else failed. But if we had taken those experiences and learned from them, we’d have gone into the water facility sooner.\\n\\n It was after Gemini XI that Bob [Dr. Robert R.] Gilruth came up with, you know, “We’re not getting the picture on this EVA. Timelines and everything else.” So, he came up with the idea of utilizing the WIF [Water Immersion Facility] to practice those timelines. And if you don’t swim against the water because of it’s viscosity you can replicate pretty well the feeling of zero g. It’s not precise, but it’s the closest thing we have on Earth that can give us that experience. So, after XI they started doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, you know, spacewalk—I mean, the watching from the ground. You know, we had that image of, you know, that Ed [Edward H.] White [II] image; and it just—you think, “Oh, to be in his position!” You know. “To be out there. To be this human satellite, and have the chance to look around and—” Did you miss out on that? I mean, did you have any sense of awe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I had a chance—oh no. I looked around. I had a chance to do that. It would’ve been great just to be on a short tether and float around out there with nothing to do. But, you know, you try to utilize these environments to do work. And I look at those pictures, too, and I say, “Man, I wish I had that opportunity to do that!”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, you do what you’re supposed to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have, though, any sense of enjoyment? Or did you—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.2838712723512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I had a chance—oh no. I looked around. I had a chance to do that. It would’ve been great just to be on a short tether and float around out there with nothing to do. But, you know, you try to utilize these environments to do work. And I look at those pictures, too, and I say, “Man, I wish I had that opportunity to do that!”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, you do what you’re supposed to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have, though, any sense of enjoyment? Or did you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh sure. Once you open that hatch and you have this great panorama of the Earth, you’re outside the vehicle. You’re looking through your faceplate, instead of a little small window in Gemini, and you have a totally different perspective. You have a real panorama out there in front of you. And it’s—the word today I guess would be “awesome.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your second EVA, which I take it was, you know, going to be positioned at getting the spacecraft into these positions to do this gravity gradient experiment and to simulate gravity. I mean, what was the goal of that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.982079191501333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, you do what you’re supposed to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have, though, any sense of enjoyment? Or did you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh sure. Once you open that hatch and you have this great panorama of the Earth, you’re outside the vehicle. You’re looking through your faceplate, instead of a little small window in Gemini, and you have a totally different perspective. You have a real panorama out there in front of you. And it’s—the word today I guess would be “awesome.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your second EVA, which I take it was, you know, going to be positioned at getting the spacecraft into these positions to do this gravity gradient experiment and to simulate gravity. I mean, what was the goal of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was later on. That’s where—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I don’t mean during your EVA. That was—you all were just doing that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.646754657223703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh sure. Once you open that hatch and you have this great panorama of the Earth, you’re outside the vehicle. You’re looking through your faceplate, instead of a little small window in Gemini, and you have a totally different perspective. You have a real panorama out there in front of you. And it’s—the word today I guess would be “awesome.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had your second EVA, which I take it was, you know, going to be positioned at getting the spacecraft into these positions to do this gravity gradient experiment and to simulate gravity. I mean, what was the goal of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was later on. That’s where—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I don’t mean during your EVA. That was—you all were just doing that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well. The second EVA was a real pleasure actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were just taking, quote, “pictures.”"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.27417184135967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was later on. That’s where—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I don’t mean during your EVA. That was—you all were just doing that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well. The second EVA was a real pleasure actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were just taking, quote, “pictures.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "UV [ultraviolet] pictures of what they call “empty space” or “black voids.” Trying to figure out if they’re black holes or stars there. And Karl Henize, actually, who later became an astronaut, was the principal investigator on that experiment. And this was a very relaxing EVA. We finally sorted out our problem, and we were just being tethered very closely to the spacecraft, standing in the hatch. Immediate—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you just opened the hatch and stand—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.971302045955189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well. The second EVA was a real pleasure actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were just taking, quote, “pictures.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "UV [ultraviolet] pictures of what they call “empty space” or “black voids.” Trying to figure out if they’re black holes or stars there. And Karl Henize, actually, who later became an astronaut, was the principal investigator on that experiment. And this was a very relaxing EVA. We finally sorted out our problem, and we were just being tethered very closely to the spacecraft, standing in the hatch. Immediate—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you just opened the hatch and stand—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Stand in the seat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stand in a seat—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.745891162172431, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "UV [ultraviolet] pictures of what they call “empty space” or “black voids.” Trying to figure out if they’re black holes or stars there. And Karl Henize, actually, who later became an astronaut, was the principal investigator on that experiment. And this was a very relaxing EVA. We finally sorted out our problem, and we were just being tethered very closely to the spacecraft, standing in the hatch. Immediate—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you just opened the hatch and stand—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Stand in the seat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stand in a seat—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh-hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and just, what? point—how much of you is out of the hatch?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.606545735747146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Stand in the seat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stand in a seat—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh-hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and just, what? point—how much of you is out of the hatch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, from the waist up. From the thighs up maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I’ve read that you fell asleep. Is that a true story?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.562828595274606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh-hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and just, what? point—how much of you is out of the hatch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, from the waist up. From the thighs up maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I’ve read that you fell asleep. Is that a true story?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "True story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you fall asleep during a—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.514253994749563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, from the waist up. From the thighs up maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I’ve read that you fell asleep. Is that a true story?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "True story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you fall asleep during a—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you get comfortable and you get that warm, fuzzy feeling, and you fall asleep. The activities of that experiment, the UV had to be done, ultraviolet experiments, the camera had to be done at nighttime during darkness. So, we were setting up and I was trying to tell Pete where to point the spacecraft. His window was bad. And so, we were trying to coordinate where we’d point the spacecraft so the camera, which was fixed in a bracket outside the spacecraft, would be pointed in the right direction. And when the night side pass was over, we had nothing to do.\\n\\n So, I was leaning up on the spacecraft, kind of put my head down on the vehicle, and I got warm and comfortable, dozed off. And surprisingly enough, when we came across the Cape and somebody started to talk to us we both went “Hunh?” He had fallen asleep inside at the same time I’d fallen asleep hanging outside the spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s amazing. So, your second EVA—uneventful. You achieved the—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.460282216388403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "True story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you fall asleep during a—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you get comfortable and you get that warm, fuzzy feeling, and you fall asleep. The activities of that experiment, the UV had to be done, ultraviolet experiments, the camera had to be done at nighttime during darkness. So, we were setting up and I was trying to tell Pete where to point the spacecraft. His window was bad. And so, we were trying to coordinate where we’d point the spacecraft so the camera, which was fixed in a bracket outside the spacecraft, would be pointed in the right direction. And when the night side pass was over, we had nothing to do.\\n\\n So, I was leaning up on the spacecraft, kind of put my head down on the vehicle, and I got warm and comfortable, dozed off. And surprisingly enough, when we came across the Cape and somebody started to talk to us we both went “Hunh?” He had fallen asleep inside at the same time I’d fallen asleep hanging outside the spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s amazing. So, your second EVA—uneventful. You achieved the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And Bob Gilruth came back and asked a question later, if it was an acclimation problem that was the first EVA. It may very well have been. At the time, I didn’t think so; but if I’d have had the opportunity to start fresh again—without the problem with the helmet, without getting behind the power curve—we might’ve had a little more success with the EVA and been able to accomplish a little more. But I don’t think it, in reality, it made a great deal of difference. There would’ve been an acclimation by doing the stand-up EVA first and then doing the rest of it, attaching the tether so we—the follow-on experiment could be made. But that’s the way it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, then you had this experiment to do after the EVAs were over, this gravity gradient experiment. And I guess it was like kind of rotating them around the center of mass and—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.370648096918766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We knew it. There was no question about it. We rotated very slowly at first; and then Dr. Gilruth wanted us to increase the rate of rotation, which we did for the second orbit. But we knew we could feel the gravity. It was very, very low. But you could feel it. You could sense it. And you could observe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Put a pencil in front of you and let go of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it would—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Instead of staying right there, it would float right back to us. So, you knew right then and there that you were creating artificial gravity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now were these experiments that you were doing to learn something for the future? I mean, give us a sense of what it was that you think that these things were designed to do. And, you know, they still do tether experiments with the Space Shuttle."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.300720107687518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Put a pencil in front of you and let go of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it would—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Instead of staying right there, it would float right back to us. So, you knew right then and there that you were creating artificial gravity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now were these experiments that you were doing to learn something for the future? I mean, give us a sense of what it was that you think that these things were designed to do. And, you know, they still do tether experiments with the Space Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. And that’s basically what that whole thing is all about. They do tether experiments with the Orbiter—with the Shuttle—and that’s the basis for doing these things is to learn. But we haven’t been successful with the tether yet! But it’ll work. And it’s—Space Station will probably involve itself with some of those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—when you came back and if there was any kind of debriefing, do you have a sense of what it was that was learned from the experiments that you were all were able to do? Even if it’s just, “This didn’t work for this reason” or “This worked, but here’s how we can make it work better.” I mean, did you get a sense—was there a follow up to let you know that, you know, sitting there today, “Here’s what they learned from what we did.”"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.111911230763909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Instead of staying right there, it would float right back to us. So, you knew right then and there that you were creating artificial gravity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now were these experiments that you were doing to learn something for the future? I mean, give us a sense of what it was that you think that these things were designed to do. And, you know, they still do tether experiments with the Space Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. And that’s basically what that whole thing is all about. They do tether experiments with the Orbiter—with the Shuttle—and that’s the basis for doing these things is to learn. But we haven’t been successful with the tether yet! But it’ll work. And it’s—Space Station will probably involve itself with some of those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—when you came back and if there was any kind of debriefing, do you have a sense of what it was that was learned from the experiments that you were all were able to do? Even if it’s just, “This didn’t work for this reason” or “This worked, but here’s how we can make it work better.” I mean, did you get a sense—was there a follow up to let you know that, you know, sitting there today, “Here’s what they learned from what we did.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there were reports written about the experiments and the things we did. Whether or not we paid any attention to them or whether I paid any attention to them was probably lost in moving beyond Gemini and moving right into Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s talk about Apollo. That’s a good segue. I guess you’re training first as a backup on Apollo 9 and your crewmates are Pete Conrad and C. C. [Clifton C.] Williams [Jr.]. How soon after you’re named to this crew does C. C. Williams die in a plane crash?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.791012478626565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. And that’s basically what that whole thing is all about. They do tether experiments with the Orbiter—with the Shuttle—and that’s the basis for doing these things is to learn. But we haven’t been successful with the tether yet! But it’ll work. And it’s—Space Station will probably involve itself with some of those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—when you came back and if there was any kind of debriefing, do you have a sense of what it was that was learned from the experiments that you were all were able to do? Even if it’s just, “This didn’t work for this reason” or “This worked, but here’s how we can make it work better.” I mean, did you get a sense—was there a follow up to let you know that, you know, sitting there today, “Here’s what they learned from what we did.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there were reports written about the experiments and the things we did. Whether or not we paid any attention to them or whether I paid any attention to them was probably lost in moving beyond Gemini and moving right into Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s talk about Apollo. That’s a good segue. I guess you’re training first as a backup on Apollo 9 and your crewmates are Pete Conrad and C. C. [Clifton C.] Williams [Jr.]. How soon after you’re named to this crew does C. C. Williams die in a plane crash?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very soon. I don’t recall the exact dates about that, but it was very, very shortly after we were assigned as a crew. I don’t recall the opportunity to work together for any length of time. Pete may have done more with C. C., because he, C. C., was a lunar module pilot, than I may have at the time as a command module pilot. But I don’t remember any training that we conducted as a crew. Now we may have. I just don’t recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then, was there any thought of just you moving over to lunar module pilot? Or, I mean, you know, when—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.545569420696183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there were reports written about the experiments and the things we did. Whether or not we paid any attention to them or whether I paid any attention to them was probably lost in moving beyond Gemini and moving right into Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s talk about Apollo. That’s a good segue. I guess you’re training first as a backup on Apollo 9 and your crewmates are Pete Conrad and C. C. [Clifton C.] Williams [Jr.]. How soon after you’re named to this crew does C. C. Williams die in a plane crash?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very soon. I don’t recall the exact dates about that, but it was very, very shortly after we were assigned as a crew. I don’t recall the opportunity to work together for any length of time. Pete may have done more with C. C., because he, C. C., was a lunar module pilot, than I may have at the time as a command module pilot. But I don’t remember any training that we conducted as a crew. Now we may have. I just don’t recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then, was there any thought of just you moving over to lunar module pilot? Or, I mean, you know, when—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know that you all get to pick what positions you have. But how do you wind up the command module—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.383966022995759, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very soon. I don’t recall the exact dates about that, but it was very, very shortly after we were assigned as a crew. I don’t recall the opportunity to work together for any length of time. Pete may have done more with C. C., because he, C. C., was a lunar module pilot, than I may have at the time as a command module pilot. But I don’t remember any training that we conducted as a crew. Now we may have. I just don’t recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then, was there any thought of just you moving over to lunar module pilot? Or, I mean, you know, when—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know that you all get to pick what positions you have. But how do you wind up the command module—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we don’t get to pick what positions we want!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, Deke Slayton tells you, “You’re on this crew as command module pilot.”"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.3505753370318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we don’t get to pick what positions we want!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, Deke Slayton tells you, “You’re on this crew as command module pilot.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You got it. You’re absolutely right. And what his rationale at that time was that two people are going to go down to the Moon; there was going to be one person left in the command module. His criteria at that time, till we gained more experienced, was that person that was left behind in the command module by himself must have flown in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the ground rules at the time. So, there was no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I was the command module pilot and that was it. The same occurred with Apollo 9, 10, 11, 12. All those command module pilots had previous flight experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But after that, that wasn’t necessarily a requirement."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.389528152257556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You got it. You’re absolutely right. And what his rationale at that time was that two people are going to go down to the Moon; there was going to be one person left in the command module. His criteria at that time, till we gained more experienced, was that person that was left behind in the command module by himself must have flown in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the ground rules at the time. So, there was no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I was the command module pilot and that was it. The same occurred with Apollo 9, 10, 11, 12. All those command module pilots had previous flight experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But after that, that wasn’t necessarily a requirement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct. As a matter of fact, on 13 we showed, I guess, that it was not as difficult as anticipated! That rookies could do it!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They got to really prove that. You’re training and then C. C. Williams is killed, and then this substitute comes in, Alan [L.] Bean; and what was your first—you know, I don’t know if there was—you know, you knew Pete so well. How well did you know Alan Bean? And what was your first impression? And—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.099475724730618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the ground rules at the time. So, there was no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I was the command module pilot and that was it. The same occurred with Apollo 9, 10, 11, 12. All those command module pilots had previous flight experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But after that, that wasn’t necessarily a requirement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct. As a matter of fact, on 13 we showed, I guess, that it was not as difficult as anticipated! That rookies could do it!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They got to really prove that. You’re training and then C. C. Williams is killed, and then this substitute comes in, Alan [L.] Bean; and what was your first—you know, I don’t know if there was—you know, you knew Pete so well. How well did you know Alan Bean? And what was your first impression? And—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not—I did not know Al that well. We were at Patuxent River Test Center at the same time. I was in Class 18. Pete was in Class 20. I don’t recall which class Alan was in, but Pete was Alan’s instructor at Test Pilot School before they got into one of the Divisions. I did not know him. We were together in the second selection, so I got to know Al a little bit at that time. But, hey look, he was a naval aviator. He was acceptable!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not one of those Air Force guys."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.888306360811797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct. As a matter of fact, on 13 we showed, I guess, that it was not as difficult as anticipated! That rookies could do it!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They got to really prove that. You’re training and then C. C. Williams is killed, and then this substitute comes in, Alan [L.] Bean; and what was your first—you know, I don’t know if there was—you know, you knew Pete so well. How well did you know Alan Bean? And what was your first impression? And—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not—I did not know Al that well. We were at Patuxent River Test Center at the same time. I was in Class 18. Pete was in Class 20. I don’t recall which class Alan was in, but Pete was Alan’s instructor at Test Pilot School before they got into one of the Divisions. I did not know him. We were together in the second selection, so I got to know Al a little bit at that time. But, hey look, he was a naval aviator. He was acceptable!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not one of those Air Force guys."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t say that. You did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know. So, you’re on a backup to Apollo 9 and there’s this decision made, you know. George Low has this brilliant idea to send Apollo 8 to the Moon. And the person that you’re backing up has this opportunity to fly that flight, Jim it was—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.65367373423533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not—I did not know Al that well. We were at Patuxent River Test Center at the same time. I was in Class 18. Pete was in Class 20. I don’t recall which class Alan was in, but Pete was Alan’s instructor at Test Pilot School before they got into one of the Divisions. I did not know him. We were together in the second selection, so I got to know Al a little bit at that time. But, hey look, he was a naval aviator. He was acceptable!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not one of those Air Force guys."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t say that. You did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know. So, you’re on a backup to Apollo 9 and there’s this decision made, you know. George Low has this brilliant idea to send Apollo 8 to the Moon. And the person that you’re backing up has this opportunity to fly that flight, Jim it was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "McDivitt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—McDivitt. And passes it up."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.504081926928144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t say that. You did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know. So, you’re on a backup to Apollo 9 and there’s this decision made, you know. George Low has this brilliant idea to send Apollo 8 to the Moon. And the person that you’re backing up has this opportunity to fly that flight, Jim it was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "McDivitt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—McDivitt. And passes it up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that a true story?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’ve read it now enough times that he was actually offered it and passed it up to stay with the lunar module."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.448979918809048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "McDivitt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—McDivitt. And passes it up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that a true story?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’ve read it now enough times that he was actually offered it and passed it up to stay with the lunar module."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve never got Jim to admit that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really. Well, it’s—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.498866576454498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that a true story?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’ve read it now enough times that he was actually offered it and passed it up to stay with the lunar module."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve never got Jim to admit that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really. Well, it’s—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, I’ve heard—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Andy Chaikin must’ve gotten him to admit it because he put it in his book."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.665407307171664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve never got Jim to admit that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really. Well, it’s—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, I’ve heard—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Andy Chaikin must’ve gotten him to admit it because he put it in his book."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he could have. I’ve heard that as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know at the time—like, did you know that he passed it up? Did you know that—I mean, when—I’ve read that you were a little bit angry about that took you—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.73934145241296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, I’ve heard—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Andy Chaikin must’ve gotten him to admit it because he put it in his book."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he could have. I’ve heard that as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know at the time—like, did you know that he passed it up? Did you know that—I mean, when—I’ve read that you were a little bit angry about that took you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, no. I didn’t—I don’t know that it was offered to him at the time. It could very well have been. But Jim’s decision—I don’t know what his decision was based on. I assumed that his decision was based on the fact that he had been training so long to fly the first lunar module flight that, even though it was late in flight, it should’ve been, I mean, flown long before we did it on Apollo 9, that he chose to stay with the flight of the lunar module and fly that on a Apollo 9 mission in Earth orbit. I believe that that was his motivation. Now other people may have different thoughts. The stories may be different. But as it turned out, we never knew 11 was going to be the first one to land on the Moon! If I had known that 11 was going to be the first one on the Moon and McDivitt had the chance to fly 8, and we would’ve rotated to 11, there would’ve been hell to pay if he turned it down!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you didn’t know till later. But when you found out later, I mean, I get the sense from reading things that when you did find out later, there was almost—that you—there was this sense of, I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but regret or—that you did convey some disappointment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.287162486163183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That may be a rumor. Vicious rumor. But, no, I don’t think so. I don’t think at the time we knew it. In reflecting about it later, why, I’ve always kidded Jim about it, “If you’d have made a right decision, Apollo 12 would’ve been the crew for 11.” But, no, I don’t think at the time there was not that sense, because nobody knew who was going to be the first to land on the Moon. People that think that, that’s foolishness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did—you’re in your training. I mean, 9 happens, and then you move over and now you’re prime for 12. What—how do you start training for the real thing? I mean, what’s different about being the backup crew? And how does it start, where you guys know you’re really going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The difference is, I guess, the launches. The way you fly the spacecraft. The command module and lunar module are the same whether you’re in Earth orbit or whether you’re going to go to the Moon. So, all that training just follows right along. The only thing different in operating spacecraft is the actual landing on the lunar surface itself. So, it—we had enough information from Ranger and Surveyor and mapping and photographs of the lunar surface itself that we could accurately simulate those operations in lunar vicinity—near lunar vicinity—to the point we could even simulate the landing well, and utilizing features on the lunar surface to give us a roadmap to where we were going and what to do. The LLTV [Lunar Lander Training Vehicle] is a training device. It gave us that learning ability, with how the lunar module was going to react in 1/6g. So, all of these things, you take pieces of it and you just add them all together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, were you training for Apollo 12. Like, does that start, like, before Apollo 11 goes to the Moon? I mean, is that an active thing or—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.366867266868127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The difference is, I guess, the launches. The way you fly the spacecraft. The command module and lunar module are the same whether you’re in Earth orbit or whether you’re going to go to the Moon. So, all that training just follows right along. The only thing different in operating spacecraft is the actual landing on the lunar surface itself. So, it—we had enough information from Ranger and Surveyor and mapping and photographs of the lunar surface itself that we could accurately simulate those operations in lunar vicinity—near lunar vicinity—to the point we could even simulate the landing well, and utilizing features on the lunar surface to give us a roadmap to where we were going and what to do. The LLTV [Lunar Lander Training Vehicle] is a training device. It gave us that learning ability, with how the lunar module was going to react in 1/6g. So, all of these things, you take pieces of it and you just add them all together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, were you training for Apollo 12. Like, does that start, like, before Apollo 11 goes to the Moon? I mean, is that an active thing or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They overlap?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They do. And the overlap really occurs in training. The flight that’s up to bat gets the facilities at the Cape. I mean, they’re prime. Their primary objective is to get as much training as they possibly can. But they essentially move to the Cape, and they had all the simulators at the Cape. We had, as a next flight at that time all the simulators and the facilities here at JSC. Once they’ve got out of the Cape and got out of the way, then you just moved right in behind them. And then the simulators at the Cape become your primary training joys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you’re training. What kind of input, I mean, that—did you have into training in terms of saying, “This is working well,” “That’s not working well,” and then actually helping plan the mission. I mean, did you have any input on experiments?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.407630296520141, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They overlap?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They do. And the overlap really occurs in training. The flight that’s up to bat gets the facilities at the Cape. I mean, they’re prime. Their primary objective is to get as much training as they possibly can. But they essentially move to the Cape, and they had all the simulators at the Cape. We had, as a next flight at that time all the simulators and the facilities here at JSC. Once they’ve got out of the Cape and got out of the way, then you just moved right in behind them. And then the simulators at the Cape become your primary training joys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you’re training. What kind of input, I mean, that—did you have into training in terms of saying, “This is working well,” “That’s not working well,” and then actually helping plan the mission. I mean, did you have any input on experiments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Very much so. Because you’re—if you can’t perform the timeline the way it’s being portrayed to you or given to you, then you have to make changes. And as you train, as you simulate things, you’re modifying the flight plan as you go along. So, you’re training, you take the flight plan, you try to accomplish those things that are listed there in the timeline which they’re listed. And if you can’t perform them, if there’s some problem with it, then you modify the flight plan and make those changes that allow you to perform the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about even any actual hardware changes. Does anything come to mind that was changed because of input during training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.910654687061903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Very much so. Because you’re—if you can’t perform the timeline the way it’s being portrayed to you or given to you, then you have to make changes. And as you train, as you simulate things, you’re modifying the flight plan as you go along. So, you’re training, you take the flight plan, you try to accomplish those things that are listed there in the timeline which they’re listed. And if you can’t perform them, if there’s some problem with it, then you modify the flight plan and make those changes that allow you to perform the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about even any actual hardware changes. Does anything come to mind that was changed because of input during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can’t recall any of that. There may’ve been some devices that would allow us to handle cameras or those kinds of things that we may’ve suggested. But that’s an evolutionary process that it—the whole program follows along that line. And we had enough sense along—at that time and really it is to learn from the previous flights. As a matter of fact, we were on two-month launch centers in Apollo until 11 landed, then we took a breather and extended for two more months.\\n\\n So, it was four months between 11 and 12. So, it allowed us to—a little time to assimilate more things. And they kept adding experiments. The scientific community wanted us to accomplish, you know, probably more than we could. So, they added cameras and they had different lenses for different purposes and functions, and those modifications are made in an evolutionary sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a discussion of experiments that you would do while you were up in the command module orbiting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your input to those?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.827968749459139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your input to those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one that I recall most vividly—and I had to go to George Low and then convince him of it—we had a set of four—we had a frame that went in the hatch window to photograph geological features on the lunar surface. There were slots for four Hasselblad cameras, a black-and-white, infrared, something else, and the experiment called for three cameras. And I went to him and I wanted a fourth camera in there, with true colors. The others were for experimental purposes, and I wanted to—I wanted a “gee whiz!” camera to be onboard. So, we—and George agreed, and we added the fourth camera.\\n\\n And those pictures were taken without much concern for aim, just other than positioning the spacecraft properly and letting it go at—in an orbital rate. And the inner velomiter was the one that took the pictures. So, that was one that I do vividly recall. We had a 500mm lens onboard that could not be handheld. We had to have a frame and utilize it as—so, there were a lot of little, tiny modifications that we had in that sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the sense that, “Why do you need a color camera? What color’s on the Moon?” Or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It changes with Sun angle. And I just thought it would be kind of a nice thing to have along as opposed to the normal scientific aspects of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let—you finished your Apollo 12 training and you know you’re really going to go. Take us through the countdown. I mean, I assume you knew you were going to go, even though the weather was just horrible! I mean, did you I mean, what’s it like to go out there? You know, we see the images of, you know, here’s these three guys and you’re walking. You know, you’re carrying your little packs, and you’re walking up—high up on this platform. I mean, what is that like on launch day to—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.849344135134739, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It changes with Sun angle. And I just thought it would be kind of a nice thing to have along as opposed to the normal scientific aspects of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let—you finished your Apollo 12 training and you know you’re really going to go. Take us through the countdown. I mean, I assume you knew you were going to go, even though the weather was just horrible! I mean, did you I mean, what’s it like to go out there? You know, we see the images of, you know, here’s these three guys and you’re walking. You know, you’re carrying your little packs, and you’re walking up—high up on this platform. I mean, what is that like on launch day to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exciting. Sure. I got to sit outside while those two guys were getting strapped in. I got to stand up there and look at the weather and look at the coast of Florida and watch the black clouds come in and say, “Hey, this is real. That beast below us, that Saturn V, is a living, breathing object. It’s venting vapors and ice is falling off of it. And it’s a creature that’s just about to come alive.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The weather was bad. Did you think you were really going to go that day?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2770490390386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exciting. Sure. I got to sit outside while those two guys were getting strapped in. I got to stand up there and look at the weather and look at the coast of Florida and watch the black clouds come in and say, “Hey, this is real. That beast below us, that Saturn V, is a living, breathing object. It’s venting vapors and ice is falling off of it. And it’s a creature that’s just about to come alive.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The weather was bad. Did you think you were really going to go that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t sure; I was not sure. We didn’t want a delay, because a delay would’ve meant that we had another month of agony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why a month?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0580852333809867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t sure; I was not sure. We didn’t want a delay, because a delay would’ve meant that we had another month of agony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why a month?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The lunar cycles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That 28-day cycle exists, and your landing site is fixed and chosen. And as the Sun angle changes 13 degrees a day, we had to land at a very low Sun angle to provide shadow for depth perception. So, if we missed a launch time, you had another month to wait so that the Moon came around to the same position as before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, as they’re loading you guys in, you know, we did talk with Guenter Wendt and he has all these stories about, you know, the antics and shenanigans out at the pad. Do you recall any from your—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.3978724815344297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The lunar cycles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That 28-day cycle exists, and your landing site is fixed and chosen. And as the Sun angle changes 13 degrees a day, we had to land at a very low Sun angle to provide shadow for depth perception. So, if we missed a launch time, you had another month to wait so that the Moon came around to the same position as before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, as they’re loading you guys in, you know, we did talk with Guenter Wendt and he has all these stories about, you know, the antics and shenanigans out at the pad. Do you recall any from your—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, he always had something. It’s to relieve the tension a little bit, you know. Have a few yucks and laugh and take away the tension that may or may not exist in the situation. But he was great to work with. He’s became a very good friend of all the crews; and he was great to be around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You felt safe in his care?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.664302757260477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That 28-day cycle exists, and your landing site is fixed and chosen. And as the Sun angle changes 13 degrees a day, we had to land at a very low Sun angle to provide shadow for depth perception. So, if we missed a launch time, you had another month to wait so that the Moon came around to the same position as before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, as they’re loading you guys in, you know, we did talk with Guenter Wendt and he has all these stories about, you know, the antics and shenanigans out at the pad. Do you recall any from your—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, he always had something. It’s to relieve the tension a little bit, you know. Have a few yucks and laugh and take away the tension that may or may not exist in the situation. But he was great to work with. He’s became a very good friend of all the crews; and he was great to be around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You felt safe in his care?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I don’t know if that’s—that may be a misnomer. I’m not sure you’re ever safe with Guenter! Because he always had some practical joke to play."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess President [Richard M.] Nixon was also at your launch."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9603363969560856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, he always had something. It’s to relieve the tension a little bit, you know. Have a few yucks and laugh and take away the tension that may or may not exist in the situation. But he was great to work with. He’s became a very good friend of all the crews; and he was great to be around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You felt safe in his care?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I don’t know if that’s—that may be a misnomer. I’m not sure you’re ever safe with Guenter! Because he always had some practical joke to play."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess President [Richard M.] Nixon was also at your launch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First time a President was at a launch."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2892626632845396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I don’t know if that’s—that may be a misnomer. I’m not sure you’re ever safe with Guenter! Because he always had some practical joke to play."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess President [Richard M.] Nixon was also at your launch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First time a President was at a launch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He got wet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. You know, some have speculated, like, maybe you just launched because he was there and they didn’t want to disappoint the President. Do you—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6547362925383773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First time a President was at a launch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He got wet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. You know, some have speculated, like, maybe you just launched because he was there and they didn’t want to disappoint the President. Do you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t buy that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.060818102820419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He got wet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. You know, some have speculated, like, maybe you just launched because he was there and they didn’t want to disappoint the President. Do you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t buy that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They do launch. And describe—before we get to the lightning that struck your spacecraft—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.400909003133799, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t buy that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They do launch. And describe—before we get to the lightning that struck your spacecraft—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were concerned that they weren’t going. We wanted to go. And we were concerned because of the weather that it was going to be a delay and a hold, and we would not get to go. But we were probably not part of that decision-making process, with the exception that we probably conveyed that we were ready. And if they chose to go, go ahead and launch us. We never anticipated what was going to happen 36 seconds after liftoff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’ve read—just to go back before liftoff just a minute. I’ve read that, like, a minute before liftoff that you and Pete Conrad and Alan Bean actually grasped hands and—describe that moment when you’re that close to launch and you know—I mean, what was that gesture to convey really? The sense that you guys were going on this grand adventure? Or—and did that really happen? I mean, I’ve read that you all grasped hands—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.7787877812597763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They do launch. And describe—before we get to the lightning that struck your spacecraft—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were concerned that they weren’t going. We wanted to go. And we were concerned because of the weather that it was going to be a delay and a hold, and we would not get to go. But we were probably not part of that decision-making process, with the exception that we probably conveyed that we were ready. And if they chose to go, go ahead and launch us. We never anticipated what was going to happen 36 seconds after liftoff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’ve read—just to go back before liftoff just a minute. I’ve read that, like, a minute before liftoff that you and Pete Conrad and Alan Bean actually grasped hands and—describe that moment when you’re that close to launch and you know—I mean, what was that gesture to convey really? The sense that you guys were going on this grand adventure? Or—and did that really happen? I mean, I’ve read that you all grasped hands—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we probably did, wishing each other well. Good luck. Do a good job. Don’t mess anything up that I’ve got to correct! You know, it’s just kind of camaraderie that existed in that crew. It was just a gesture of wellbeing and bon voyage!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then what is liftoff like? I mean, it’s not the Shuttle. It’s—I mean what is it like to ride a Saturn V?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.440038108723973, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s slow. Very slow. It shakes, rattles, and rolls, is actually what it does. Those engines gimbal and the four that gimbal on the Saturn V of the five engines, the four of them that move to position the spacecraft in the right attitude and point it in the right direction, you feel that all the way back up the stack, 320 ft away from them. It makes a lot of noise, and it’s been described as a freight train going straight up. And I guess that’s as apt a description as you can give. It’s a Saturn V going straight up, is what it is. But there’s a lot of dynamics involved with the liftoff. And it doesn’t smooth out until further down the road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well—and as you mentioned, 36 seconds into flight you’re struck by lightning. Did you know it? Did any—I read that Pete Conrad saw the flash but was the only one who really saw the flash."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only one that had a window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The boost protective cover was still on, and that’s the only available window until the launch escape tower is jettisoned. He said he saw that flash, and the rest of us saw, as well as he did, all the warning lights come on the instrument panels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel anything?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7111534541377473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only one that had a window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The boost protective cover was still on, and that’s the only available window until the launch escape tower is jettisoned. He said he saw that flash, and the rest of us saw, as well as he did, all the warning lights come on the instrument panels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just see a bunch of—what was your thought when all those lights come on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0123927268197193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The boost protective cover was still on, and that’s the only available window until the launch escape tower is jettisoned. He said he saw that flash, and the rest of us saw, as well as he did, all the warning lights come on the instrument panels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just see a bunch of—what was your thought when all those lights come on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of startled. We never anticipated anything like that. It was not part of the training syllabus! Simulations didn’t even come close to it. I always tell an anecdotal story about that. Whether it’s true or not, it doesn’t matter. It’s my story, so I usually tell it. And—\\n\\n You always get in a very competitive situation in training, like you want to be the first to discover how to solve a problem and you compete with each other, and you compete with the ground as well. Well, I was always all over the command module. That was my responsibility and my job, and I was always attempting to be the one that first came up with all the solutions. And I would not let Al—you know, I’d take care of everything. When those lights came on, I kind of looked up at the lights, I looked over at Al, and I looked back again, and I said, “Okay, Al. It’s all yours!” And went back to take care of the attitude with Pete. And whether that’s true or not, I always tell it that way because that’s the way I felt! Because I didn’t know what the hell to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if you didn’t know, that was saying something, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.591362180795182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "SCE."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—which I take it some people didn’t even know what it was? But did Pete Conrad know what SCE was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I claim that I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you all knew—you knew what this—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3226693590063974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you all knew—you knew what this—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That may have been a controversy. I had not had that experience with that before or John’s experience before that happened. But the SCE had a primary and an auxiliary, a secondary position. I think the call was, “Switch SCE to AUX.” Which was done right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s some confusion whether I did it or Al Bean did it, because it was right here in front of me. I can see it today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember if—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6918548433404412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That may have been a controversy. I had not had that experience with that before or John’s experience before that happened. But the SCE had a primary and an auxiliary, a secondary position. I think the call was, “Switch SCE to AUX.” Which was done right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s some confusion whether I did it or Al Bean did it, because it was right here in front of me. I can see it today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember if—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it doesn’t matter. It got done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—do you remember the reaction when it worked? When that made a difference?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.102060937044935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s some confusion whether I did it or Al Bean did it, because it was right here in front of me. I can see it today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember if—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it doesn’t matter. It got done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—do you remember the reaction when it worked? When that made a difference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there wasn’t much the ground could do, but it gave them the information they needed. They then were able to monitor systems once again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And realized you were still on the right trajectory and that, apparently, you were hit by lightning a second time at 52 seconds. Did you even know that at the time? I mean—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.446734374494372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it doesn’t matter. It got done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—do you remember the reaction when it worked? When that made a difference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there wasn’t much the ground could do, but it gave them the information they needed. They then were able to monitor systems once again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And realized you were still on the right trajectory and that, apparently, you were hit by lightning a second time at 52 seconds. Did you even know that at the time? I mean—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we did. Because the only thing that—I didn’t know that we got hit. But the attitude reference system started to tumble, what we call “tumble.” Normally it’s very stationary and very stable and it shows you the attitude that you’re in roll, pitch, and yaw. And it started doing this, just—and the GDC, the gyro display coupler, was right next to it. This was one of those changes that were made early in the program to take it from the copilot’s side and put it back over on the commander’s side so he’d have two reference systems. Well, it was working fine. It was doing what it was supposed to do while this other crazy thing was just flopping all over the place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—I mean, I don’t know. I’m curious when you learned of the—that there was even a debate on the ground about what to do. Okay, this has happened. Has it—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7185937494381913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there wasn’t much the ground could do, but it gave them the information they needed. They then were able to monitor systems once again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And realized you were still on the right trajectory and that, apparently, you were hit by lightning a second time at 52 seconds. Did you even know that at the time? I mean—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we did. Because the only thing that—I didn’t know that we got hit. But the attitude reference system started to tumble, what we call “tumble.” Normally it’s very stationary and very stable and it shows you the attitude that you’re in roll, pitch, and yaw. And it started doing this, just—and the GDC, the gyro display coupler, was right next to it. This was one of those changes that were made early in the program to take it from the copilot’s side and put it back over on the commander’s side so he’d have two reference systems. Well, it was working fine. It was doing what it was supposed to do while this other crazy thing was just flopping all over the place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—I mean, I don’t know. I’m curious when you learned of the—that there was even a debate on the ground about what to do. Okay, this has happened. Has it—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? Has anything been damaged? And what I—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0206597215979905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we did. Because the only thing that—I didn’t know that we got hit. But the attitude reference system started to tumble, what we call “tumble.” Normally it’s very stationary and very stable and it shows you the attitude that you’re in roll, pitch, and yaw. And it started doing this, just—and the GDC, the gyro display coupler, was right next to it. This was one of those changes that were made early in the program to take it from the copilot’s side and put it back over on the commander’s side so he’d have two reference systems. Well, it was working fine. It was doing what it was supposed to do while this other crazy thing was just flopping all over the place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—I mean, I don’t know. I’m curious when you learned of the—that there was even a debate on the ground about what to do. Okay, this has happened. Has it—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? Has anything been damaged? And what I—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—what I—you didn’t know till years later that there was even discussion about just bringing you home right away?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.356288579553323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? Has anything been damaged? And what I—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—what I—you didn’t know till years later that there was even discussion about just bringing you home right away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We thought they might. We—but once we got into orbit and realigned the platform, there wasn’t any doubt in our mind that we should go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know that there—that part of the debate was, well, if what could have been damaged, which I guess was the pyrotechnic—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.729209532837025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—what I—you didn’t know till years later that there was even discussion about just bringing you home right away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We thought they might. We—but once we got into orbit and realigned the platform, there wasn’t any doubt in our mind that we should go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know that there—that part of the debate was, well, if what could have been damaged, which I guess was the pyrotechnic—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The recovery system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—system on the parachutes, did you know that there was discussion. “Well, if they’re going to crash into the ocean, they could do it now or they could go to the Moon, have that experience, and then crash into the ocean and die.” I mean, did you know it was that blatant?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.143566147596695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We thought they might. We—but once we got into orbit and realigned the platform, there wasn’t any doubt in our mind that we should go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know that there—that part of the debate was, well, if what could have been damaged, which I guess was the pyrotechnic—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The recovery system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—system on the parachutes, did you know that there was discussion. “Well, if they’re going to crash into the ocean, they could do it now or they could go to the Moon, have that experience, and then crash into the ocean and die.” I mean, did you know it was that blatant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No? And if that really had been—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.60396238621855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The recovery system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—system on the parachutes, did you know that there was discussion. “Well, if they’re going to crash into the ocean, they could do it now or they could go to the Moon, have that experience, and then crash into the ocean and die.” I mean, did you know it was that blatant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No? And if that really had been—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If it had, we’d have gone to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You would have—yeah. You liked the decision that was made."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.115513762465055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No? And if that really had been—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If it had, we’d have gone to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You would have—yeah. You liked the decision that was made."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. It was the right decision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.683904180516727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If it had, we’d have gone to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You would have—yeah. You liked the decision that was made."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. It was the right decision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We weren’t conscious that that debate was going on at the time. Now that’s my recollection. Pete now may think differently, but I don’t think so. I—because we were concerned that they were going to bring us back home. Pure and simply. And we were afraid we were going to lose the mission. But once we found that we didn’t lose anything in the spacecraft, something very minor we did, but everything checked out and everything worked in the spacecraft that we were confident that we were going. We were concerned that there maybe had been some fear or caution in some of the decision makers that would counter that, but we thought we were going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know of any procedures or equipment that was changed on later flights because of your all’s experience of being hit by lightning?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.31544908946303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. It was the right decision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We weren’t conscious that that debate was going on at the time. Now that’s my recollection. Pete now may think differently, but I don’t think so. I—because we were concerned that they were going to bring us back home. Pure and simply. And we were afraid we were going to lose the mission. But once we found that we didn’t lose anything in the spacecraft, something very minor we did, but everything checked out and everything worked in the spacecraft that we were confident that we were going. We were concerned that there maybe had been some fear or caution in some of the decision makers that would counter that, but we thought we were going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know of any procedures or equipment that was changed on later flights because of your all’s experience of being hit by lightning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. “Don’t be stupid enough to launch in a thunderstorm!”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, it was a procedure."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.017165654958922, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We weren’t conscious that that debate was going on at the time. Now that’s my recollection. Pete now may think differently, but I don’t think so. I—because we were concerned that they were going to bring us back home. Pure and simply. And we were afraid we were going to lose the mission. But once we found that we didn’t lose anything in the spacecraft, something very minor we did, but everything checked out and everything worked in the spacecraft that we were confident that we were going. We were concerned that there maybe had been some fear or caution in some of the decision makers that would counter that, but we thought we were going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know of any procedures or equipment that was changed on later flights because of your all’s experience of being hit by lightning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. “Don’t be stupid enough to launch in a thunderstorm!”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, it was a procedure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a change that was made."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really. Well, you know what? They still have launched some unmanned rockets during thunderstorms."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.796850727732136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. “Don’t be stupid enough to launch in a thunderstorm!”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, it was a procedure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a change that was made."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really. Well, you know what? They still have launched some unmanned rockets during thunderstorms."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and what happened to them? They end up on the beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In your training, and you may have addressed this but I want to be clear about it, had you practiced resetting the entire navigation platform in such a short period of time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.663167475257929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a change that was made."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really. Well, you know what? They still have launched some unmanned rockets during thunderstorms."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and what happened to them? They end up on the beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In your training, and you may have addressed this but I want to be clear about it, had you practiced resetting the entire navigation platform in such a short period of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um-hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had practiced that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.292408305842144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and what happened to them? They end up on the beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In your training, and you may have addressed this but I want to be clear about it, had you practiced resetting the entire navigation platform in such a short period of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um-hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had practiced that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there were two programs called P-51, which was an initial alignment, and P-52, which was a program in the computers that did the final alignment and adjusting it. Yes, we worked both of those programs. P-52 is easy because it already had a reference system to go to, and it would find the stars on its own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it Al Bean who was realigning that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.991564784269048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um-hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had practiced that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there were two programs called P-51, which was an initial alignment, and P-52, which was a program in the computers that did the final alignment and adjusting it. Yes, we worked both of those programs. P-52 is easy because it already had a reference system to go to, and it would find the stars on its own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it Al Bean who was realigning that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, you did that. Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.768405315854498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there were two programs called P-51, which was an initial alignment, and P-52, which was a program in the computers that did the final alignment and adjusting it. Yes, we worked both of those programs. P-52 is easy because it already had a reference system to go to, and it would find the stars on its own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it Al Bean who was realigning that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, you did that. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn’t let Al do anything in the command module."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about your relationship a little bit with Pete Conrad and Al Bean. I mean, I take it you and Pete Conrad go back to even have been roommates on an aircraft carrier. But talk about just the personal relationship that developed between the three of you."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.631561462060553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, you did that. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn’t let Al do anything in the command module."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about your relationship a little bit with Pete Conrad and Al Bean. I mean, I take it you and Pete Conrad go back to even have been roommates on an aircraft carrier. But talk about just the personal relationship that developed between the three of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not quite sure I know how to describe the relationship. It probably, over time, I guess these kind of relationships can develop. Pete and I could communicate without talking. We trusted each other. We thought alike. The same—we had—we reacted to the same stimuli the same. It was just—the thing that developed over the time we had complete trust in each other; and Al was brought along in that sense, too, over a period of time. But Pete and I had that going in.\\n\\n And we brought Al—Pete knew Al, of course, because he was a student of his when Pete was an instructor. So, that relationship may have been started. At the time, as a matter of fact, Al got on our crew because Pete went to Deke after C. C. was killed and asked for him. But—and it worked out great, because we three became very, very close, very good friends, which we still are today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that—Deke—Okay. They need to switch us to a new tape. [Recorder turned off.]\n\nWe were talking about your friendship with Pete Conrad and Alan Bean, that you all spent so much time together in your training. And I’m curious whether you think Deke Slayton knew about that friendship and whether it played any role in—give me a sense of what you think played a role in Deke Slayton matching people up and how he assigned them."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.499981111846006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. You live in the present. You follow the flight plan. And you flip the page to see what you’re supposed to do next. And we have checklists for everything we did, even how to go to the bathroom there’s a checklist!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some people have described that not being very fun. That particular—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.777756790940007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. You live in the present. You follow the flight plan. And you flip the page to see what you’re supposed to do next. And we have checklists for everything we did, even how to go to the bathroom there’s a checklist!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some people have described that not being very fun. That particular—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we’re human beings and we have to do those things. And there is a checklist to how to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s amazing. Talk a little bit about the feeling of being the command module pilot, closing that hatch, and being the one who flips the switch to send your two good friends on the way to the Moon. I mean, what’s that like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.975285323266673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some people have described that not being very fun. That particular—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we’re human beings and we have to do those things. And there is a checklist to how to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s amazing. Talk a little bit about the feeling of being the command module pilot, closing that hatch, and being the one who flips the switch to send your two good friends on the way to the Moon. I mean, what’s that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A release. If you knew those two guys, you’d be glad to get rid of them for 42 hours! I was all alone. It’s envy maybe, a little bit. The name of the game as far as I was concerned was to walk on the Moon. And at that time, I was relegated not to do that. And I had a job and a function to perform. And you—people, human beings have a great ability to rationalize their own importance I guess. And that’s the kinds of things you do. And I was happy for them, that they were going to go get to do that. Al Bean has subsequently made a painting, it’s called The Fantasy; and in his painting he says he could do whatever he wants to do with his paintings. And he’s got one of all three of us standing on the lunar surface."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how nice."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.305872581407414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we’re human beings and we have to do those things. And there is a checklist to how to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s amazing. Talk a little bit about the feeling of being the command module pilot, closing that hatch, and being the one who flips the switch to send your two good friends on the way to the Moon. I mean, what’s that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A release. If you knew those two guys, you’d be glad to get rid of them for 42 hours! I was all alone. It’s envy maybe, a little bit. The name of the game as far as I was concerned was to walk on the Moon. And at that time, I was relegated not to do that. And I had a job and a function to perform. And you—people, human beings have a great ability to rationalize their own importance I guess. And that’s the kinds of things you do. And I was happy for them, that they were going to go get to do that. Al Bean has subsequently made a painting, it’s called The Fantasy; and in his painting he says he could do whatever he wants to do with his paintings. And he’s got one of all three of us standing on the lunar surface."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought that’s pretty neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s a great painter. Do you—I’m going to go ahead and ask you about that issue of not going to the Moon, since it might come up later. And then I’m going to backtrack a little bit. But since you brought it up: how do you ever get over that disappointment? Or is it disappointment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.784302868230458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A release. If you knew those two guys, you’d be glad to get rid of them for 42 hours! I was all alone. It’s envy maybe, a little bit. The name of the game as far as I was concerned was to walk on the Moon. And at that time, I was relegated not to do that. And I had a job and a function to perform. And you—people, human beings have a great ability to rationalize their own importance I guess. And that’s the kinds of things you do. And I was happy for them, that they were going to go get to do that. Al Bean has subsequently made a painting, it’s called The Fantasy; and in his painting he says he could do whatever he wants to do with his paintings. And he’s got one of all three of us standing on the lunar surface."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought that’s pretty neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s a great painter. Do you—I’m going to go ahead and ask you about that issue of not going to the Moon, since it might come up later. And then I’m going to backtrack a little bit. But since you brought it up: how do you ever get over that disappointment? Or is it disappointment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there wasn’t. At the time, it wasn’t a disappointment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you thought you would go."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.760336520256065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought that’s pretty neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s a great painter. Do you—I’m going to go ahead and ask you about that issue of not going to the Moon, since it might come up later. And then I’m going to backtrack a little bit. But since you brought it up: how do you ever get over that disappointment? Or is it disappointment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there wasn’t. At the time, it wasn’t a disappointment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you thought you would go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had—within this three-flight rotation, I wanted to stay in Apollo and have the opportunity to go back again. Pete and Al chose, because they had walked on the Moon, they’d go off and do different things. I still had 60 miles to go. And when I became the backup commander on 15, fully anticipating that I would rotate once again and be the commander on 18, well, we all know the story that 17 was the last one. At that time, we had—did not know that. If I had known at that time that I would not have the opportunity to fly again, I may have chosen what Al and Pete chose to do, to fly in Skylab. Because I wanted to fly again obviously. Well, you could tell: when there were no more flights, I left. But that’s the way I looked at that on Apollo 12, that I would have the opportunity to go a second time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—I’ve read that you teased Gene Cernan about stealing your crewmate was Harrison [H.] Schmitt, Jack—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.844818355840072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there wasn’t. At the time, it wasn’t a disappointment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you thought you would go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had—within this three-flight rotation, I wanted to stay in Apollo and have the opportunity to go back again. Pete and Al chose, because they had walked on the Moon, they’d go off and do different things. I still had 60 miles to go. And when I became the backup commander on 15, fully anticipating that I would rotate once again and be the commander on 18, well, we all know the story that 17 was the last one. At that time, we had—did not know that. If I had known at that time that I would not have the opportunity to fly again, I may have chosen what Al and Pete chose to do, to fly in Skylab. Because I wanted to fly again obviously. Well, you could tell: when there were no more flights, I left. But that’s the way I looked at that on Apollo 12, that I would have the opportunity to go a second time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—I’ve read that you teased Gene Cernan about stealing your crewmate was Harrison [H.] Schmitt, Jack—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we still play that game."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, Jack Schmitt, the only geologist astronaut, you know, sometimes you read “the only scientist astronaut,” I’m sure you don’t like that when people say, “The only scientist in the—”"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.049798173155635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had—within this three-flight rotation, I wanted to stay in Apollo and have the opportunity to go back again. Pete and Al chose, because they had walked on the Moon, they’d go off and do different things. I still had 60 miles to go. And when I became the backup commander on 15, fully anticipating that I would rotate once again and be the commander on 18, well, we all know the story that 17 was the last one. At that time, we had—did not know that. If I had known at that time that I would not have the opportunity to fly again, I may have chosen what Al and Pete chose to do, to fly in Skylab. Because I wanted to fly again obviously. Well, you could tell: when there were no more flights, I left. But that’s the way I looked at that on Apollo 12, that I would have the opportunity to go a second time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—I’ve read that you teased Gene Cernan about stealing your crewmate was Harrison [H.] Schmitt, Jack—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we still play that game."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, Jack Schmitt, the only geologist astronaut, you know, sometimes you read “the only scientist astronaut,” I’m sure you don’t like that when people say, “The only scientist in the—”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It doesn’t bother me. It doesn’t bother me at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You all became scientists, I take it. But the only geologist—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.277553525728482, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we still play that game."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, Jack Schmitt, the only geologist astronaut, you know, sometimes you read “the only scientist astronaut,” I’m sure you don’t like that when people say, “The only scientist in the—”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It doesn’t bother me. It doesn’t bother me at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You all became scientists, I take it. But the only geologist—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was the only one with a Ph.D. at that time in geology. And—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware of the politics in terms of the finagling to get him on that last-minute flight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.086170584142756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It doesn’t bother me. It doesn’t bother me at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You all became scientists, I take it. But the only geologist—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was the only one with a Ph.D. at that time in geology. And—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware of the politics in terms of the finagling to get him on that last-minute flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I—sure. Sure. When I discovered that 17 was going to be the last one, I wanted to keep the crew together obviously, because we had trained. And Gene and I have always had a lot of fun. After he crashed his helicopter, I knew he wasn’t going to get to fly it. But I wanted to keep the crew together, and I had an audience with Deke and Al Shepard and told them that I thought the right decision was to keep the crew together and let us fly 17. It lasted maybe a minute or two. They politely listened to what I had to say and the three-flight rotation held. With the exception that Jack took Joe [H.] Engle’s place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know why, though, that there—I mean, you know, they bumped Joe Engle and let Jack Schmitt go. But do you, to this day, know why they wouldn’t bump Gene Cernan—as you said, especially considering he had had a helicopter crash in Florida—and not give you the chance to fly?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.873522871269728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was the only one with a Ph.D. at that time in geology. And—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware of the politics in terms of the finagling to get him on that last-minute flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I—sure. Sure. When I discovered that 17 was going to be the last one, I wanted to keep the crew together obviously, because we had trained. And Gene and I have always had a lot of fun. After he crashed his helicopter, I knew he wasn’t going to get to fly it. But I wanted to keep the crew together, and I had an audience with Deke and Al Shepard and told them that I thought the right decision was to keep the crew together and let us fly 17. It lasted maybe a minute or two. They politely listened to what I had to say and the three-flight rotation held. With the exception that Jack took Joe [H.] Engle’s place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know why, though, that there—I mean, you know, they bumped Joe Engle and let Jack Schmitt go. But do you, to this day, know why they wouldn’t bump Gene Cernan—as you said, especially considering he had had a helicopter crash in Florida—and not give you the chance to fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was the backup on 14. It was his turn to fly 17. And his book described—I think he in his book addresses that aspect of it very, very well in that particular section. And I only complained to Gene that he made one mistake. He said that we were equal at that time, and there was no way that we were equal!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you had flown more."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.637247634744142, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I—sure. Sure. When I discovered that 17 was going to be the last one, I wanted to keep the crew together obviously, because we had trained. And Gene and I have always had a lot of fun. After he crashed his helicopter, I knew he wasn’t going to get to fly it. But I wanted to keep the crew together, and I had an audience with Deke and Al Shepard and told them that I thought the right decision was to keep the crew together and let us fly 17. It lasted maybe a minute or two. They politely listened to what I had to say and the three-flight rotation held. With the exception that Jack took Joe [H.] Engle’s place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know why, though, that there—I mean, you know, they bumped Joe Engle and let Jack Schmitt go. But do you, to this day, know why they wouldn’t bump Gene Cernan—as you said, especially considering he had had a helicopter crash in Florida—and not give you the chance to fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was the backup on 14. It was his turn to fly 17. And his book described—I think he in his book addresses that aspect of it very, very well in that particular section. And I only complained to Gene that he made one mistake. He said that we were equal at that time, and there was no way that we were equal!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you had flown more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Aw, gee whiz. I was the backup commander on 15, in the lunar rover, the extended EVAs. Hell, give me a break!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction at the time? I mean at the time—you know, you have 30 years to look back and some of the bitterness might be gone. But at the time, you had to be pretty angry."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.485830705271269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was the backup on 14. It was his turn to fly 17. And his book described—I think he in his book addresses that aspect of it very, very well in that particular section. And I only complained to Gene that he made one mistake. He said that we were equal at that time, and there was no way that we were equal!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you had flown more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Aw, gee whiz. I was the backup commander on 15, in the lunar rover, the extended EVAs. Hell, give me a break!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction at the time? I mean at the time—you know, you have 30 years to look back and some of the bitterness might be gone. But at the time, you had to be pretty angry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really angry. I respected what Al and Deke did. I felt sorry that Joe Engle had gotten bumped. I think in retrospect Gene even thinks today that the better decision may have been to keep the crew together. I don’t know. But I was disappointed, certainly. But I don’t think there was any anger there involved that, you know, or we’re adults. And we accept decisions like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s go back to Apollo 12 for a little bit. And you’ve sent them off to the Moon. And Pete’s going to attempt this first pinpoint landing, because we all know that Neil’s landing was, you know, it was—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 9.428700783634742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Aw, gee whiz. I was the backup commander on 15, in the lunar rover, the extended EVAs. Hell, give me a break!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction at the time? I mean at the time—you know, you have 30 years to look back and some of the bitterness might be gone. But at the time, you had to be pretty angry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really angry. I respected what Al and Deke did. I felt sorry that Joe Engle had gotten bumped. I think in retrospect Gene even thinks today that the better decision may have been to keep the crew together. I don’t know. But I was disappointed, certainly. But I don’t think there was any anger there involved that, you know, or we’re adults. And we accept decisions like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s go back to Apollo 12 for a little bit. And you’ve sent them off to the Moon. And Pete’s going to attempt this first pinpoint landing, because we all know that Neil’s landing was, you know, it was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—it was somewhere. It was high drama, is what it was. And they didn’t want to do that again. They wanted to perfect this technique of the pinpoint landing. Could you see them land? Or did you see them after the fact? I mean, you’ve said it was partially your good eyesight. But you literally could tell where they landed at some point when—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.225881395571928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If they hadn’t been there and I’d have been wrong, it would’ve been an embarrassing situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there this sense of excitement, to be the one to report the pinpoint landing was a success? That you could tell that visually when you spotted it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think that I sensed that that was part of it. I just wanted to relay to the ground, before it ever got out, that we were successful in landing there. And the EVAs had been planned would be able to be carried out in a manner in which they were planned to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now they’re down on the Moon for 38 hours and you’re up there. And you can hear this Mission Control relay of the audio, so you can hear what they’re doing and hear—and I take it, sometimes you hear Pete Conrad humming. I guess he had this habit of humming while he worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only when he was scared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really! Did you make that up?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.806534883968809, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think that I sensed that that was part of it. I just wanted to relay to the ground, before it ever got out, that we were successful in landing there. And the EVAs had been planned would be able to be carried out in a manner in which they were planned to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now they’re down on the Moon for 38 hours and you’re up there. And you can hear this Mission Control relay of the audio, so you can hear what they’re doing and hear—and I take it, sometimes you hear Pete Conrad humming. I guess he had this habit of humming while he worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only when he was scared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really! Did you make that up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I sure did!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, that’ll go in the history book. “He was humming on the Moon because he was scared, according to Dick Gordon.” So, okay, you were joking. But you’re hearing them down there. What’s going through your mind? I mean, what are you doing up there? You know, I know you had things to do. But I just mean from an emotional standpoint, when you’re hearing them down there, what is the thought process that you have orbiting 60 miles up?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3405943155208995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only when he was scared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really! Did you make that up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I sure did!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, that’ll go in the history book. “He was humming on the Moon because he was scared, according to Dick Gordon.” So, okay, you were joking. But you’re hearing them down there. What’s going through your mind? I mean, what are you doing up there? You know, I know you had things to do. But I just mean from an emotional standpoint, when you’re hearing them down there, what is the thought process that you have orbiting 60 miles up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gee, I’m not sure I can recall that. I think that if I had a reaction to that other than being concerned about what I had to do, was the fact that we were going to have a very successful mission and things were going according to plan. You know, when he would say certain things with the ALSEP, and I heard the problem that Al was trying to get it out of the cask and this sort of thing, that I had a sense that their activities on the Moon were going to be successful and as planned. That was probably the only thing that I felt about it. You know, Pete emotes very well and you react to that. You get to know what he is thinking and doing at the time that those things are going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you also have the distinction, though, of being one of six men who get to be the only people, you know, who orbited the Moon alone. You know, that you’re completely by yourself. And what’s it like to be just completely alone in that vast void?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.884916451626443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hate that word."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is no such thing as political correctness. That’s rubbish!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Keep that in. I think those things were done by the backup crew to have a little moment of levity, a little lightness in a tense situation, if you will, that got a little chuckle, a little reminder of, “Hey, life isn’t all that serious. Let’s have a little fun while we’re doing some of these things.” And I enjoyed it. The flight plan was full of it. We had Snoopy cartoons and everything; [Charles] Schultz did this, decorated our—the backup crew did all this. We never bothered with it. We were too busy doing other things, and they took the time to remind us of the “humanality” of the whole situation, if that’s a correct word."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I mean, it is. And did it have that effect of saying, “Don’t take everything so seriously.”"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4276849462516035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is no such thing as political correctness. That’s rubbish!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Keep that in. I think those things were done by the backup crew to have a little moment of levity, a little lightness in a tense situation, if you will, that got a little chuckle, a little reminder of, “Hey, life isn’t all that serious. Let’s have a little fun while we’re doing some of these things.” And I enjoyed it. The flight plan was full of it. We had Snoopy cartoons and everything; [Charles] Schultz did this, decorated our—the backup crew did all this. We never bothered with it. We were too busy doing other things, and they took the time to remind us of the “humanality” of the whole situation, if that’s a correct word."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I mean, it is. And did it have that effect of saying, “Don’t take everything so seriously.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it let you have a little chuckle every now and then. You know, that we’re doing something, you know, that’s serious, but there’s also a little time to lighten up and get a life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now since you all—you were the second Moon landing mission, you know, you knew—you didn’t have, I take it that tension of, you know, “Will the LM really work and blast off?”"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.03076105139067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Keep that in. I think those things were done by the backup crew to have a little moment of levity, a little lightness in a tense situation, if you will, that got a little chuckle, a little reminder of, “Hey, life isn’t all that serious. Let’s have a little fun while we’re doing some of these things.” And I enjoyed it. The flight plan was full of it. We had Snoopy cartoons and everything; [Charles] Schultz did this, decorated our—the backup crew did all this. We never bothered with it. We were too busy doing other things, and they took the time to remind us of the “humanality” of the whole situation, if that’s a correct word."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I mean, it is. And did it have that effect of saying, “Don’t take everything so seriously.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it let you have a little chuckle every now and then. You know, that we’re doing something, you know, that’s serious, but there’s also a little time to lighten up and get a life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now since you all—you were the second Moon landing mission, you know, you knew—you didn’t have, I take it that tension of, you know, “Will the LM really work and blast off?”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, you do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you still have it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.7008456126563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it let you have a little chuckle every now and then. You know, that we’re doing something, you know, that’s serious, but there’s also a little time to lighten up and get a life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now since you all—you were the second Moon landing mission, you know, you knew—you didn’t have, I take it that tension of, you know, “Will the LM really work and blast off?”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, you do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you still have it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, you do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, what was it like when they’re, you know, blasting off to—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.223161791840333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, you do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you still have it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, you do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, what was it like when they’re, you know, blasting off to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every flight’s a new ballgame. You can’t go back and reuse Apollo 11’s hardware. You know it worked, but you can’t use it. You’ve got your own to deal with. But being second is a very unique position. Nobody remembers who was second. I tell that to Buzz [Edwin E. Aldrin, Jr.] all the time. But it’s the truth. We were second in this, that, and the other thing. And—but that’s okay. I mean, that goes with that territory as well. I kid Gene Cernan a lot about this. He’s talking about being the last man on the Moon. I said, “Gene, you’ll not always be the last man on the Moon, but Neil will always be the first man in the Moon.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s hope we go back someday."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.803513102044814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, you do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, what was it like when they’re, you know, blasting off to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every flight’s a new ballgame. You can’t go back and reuse Apollo 11’s hardware. You know it worked, but you can’t use it. You’ve got your own to deal with. But being second is a very unique position. Nobody remembers who was second. I tell that to Buzz [Edwin E. Aldrin, Jr.] all the time. But it’s the truth. We were second in this, that, and the other thing. And—but that’s okay. I mean, that goes with that territory as well. I kid Gene Cernan a lot about this. He’s talking about being the last man on the Moon. I said, “Gene, you’ll not always be the last man on the Moon, but Neil will always be the first man in the Moon.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s hope we go back someday."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, they’re coming up to rendezvous with you. And what do you have to do to make that process happen, as the command module pilot? Walk us through the steps."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.695695187709647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, they’re coming up to rendezvous with you. And what do you have to do to make that process happen, as the command module pilot? Walk us through the steps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a reverse process that they’re going through. They’re the active vehicle when they come up off of liftoff and rendezvous. There’s all kinds of things that can happen. The command module has the ability to rescue the lunar module—provided that they get into what we call a clear lunar orbit, which meant ten miles. If they could get into orbit at least ten miles above the surface, we had the capability to go down and get them and pick them up. So, what you’re doing is, while they’re the active vehicle in a rendezvous and doing their ranging and range rates and figuring out all the procedures for rendezvous, you’re doing the same thing in reverse.\\n\\n You’re looking at them. You’re tracking them. You’re using the computer to calculate range and range rates and let the computer tell you what the thrust changes. The velocity changes at each particular step along the way, so—and it’s just a reverse sign. If theirs is a plus, yours is a minus, and those kind of things. So, in absolute terms, you compare the numbers with each other. Of course, the ground has an input as well. And that’s exactly what you’re doing. You’re watching them approach and trying to solve the same rendezvous equations that they are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And are they flying into you? Or are you capturing them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they’re flying. They’re coming up to my altitude and my velocity, and they’re matching my orbit at 60 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when you do the actual capture—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.217439097455163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a reverse process that they’re going through. They’re the active vehicle when they come up off of liftoff and rendezvous. There’s all kinds of things that can happen. The command module has the ability to rescue the lunar module—provided that they get into what we call a clear lunar orbit, which meant ten miles. If they could get into orbit at least ten miles above the surface, we had the capability to go down and get them and pick them up. So, what you’re doing is, while they’re the active vehicle in a rendezvous and doing their ranging and range rates and figuring out all the procedures for rendezvous, you’re doing the same thing in reverse.\\n\\n You’re looking at them. You’re tracking them. You’re using the computer to calculate range and range rates and let the computer tell you what the thrust changes. The velocity changes at each particular step along the way, so—and it’s just a reverse sign. If theirs is a plus, yours is a minus, and those kind of things. So, in absolute terms, you compare the numbers with each other. Of course, the ground has an input as well. And that’s exactly what you’re doing. You’re watching them approach and trying to solve the same rendezvous equations that they are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And are they flying into you? Or are you capturing them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they’re flying. They’re coming up to my altitude and my velocity, and they’re matching my orbit at 60 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when you do the actual capture—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The docking itself?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The docking itself, who’s active for—I mean, who’s grabbing who?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.686043441616848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they’re flying. They’re coming up to my altitude and my velocity, and they’re matching my orbit at 60 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when you do the actual capture—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The docking itself?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The docking itself, who’s active for—I mean, who’s grabbing who?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The command module is. They come up and stationkeep at ten feet away or so. And there’s a docking target on the lunar module. I don’t know if we can find one around, but there is a cross, T-cross on the lunar module that the command module pilot, looking straight ahead out his window, aligns with and does—is the active participant in the docking itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you grab them, first try. No problem."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.20671493512983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The docking itself?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The docking itself, who’s active for—I mean, who’s grabbing who?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The command module is. They come up and stationkeep at ten feet away or so. And there’s a docking target on the lunar module. I don’t know if we can find one around, but there is a cross, T-cross on the lunar module that the command module pilot, looking straight ahead out his window, aligns with and does—is the active participant in the docking itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you grab them, first try. No problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the lug probe goes into a drogue and latches on. And that—when it latches on, you throw a switch and pull the lunar module right into the capture latches of the command module. You have what they call a hard dock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there—do you—could you feel that docking? You knew you had them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.674127705699811, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The command module is. They come up and stationkeep at ten feet away or so. And there’s a docking target on the lunar module. I don’t know if we can find one around, but there is a cross, T-cross on the lunar module that the command module pilot, looking straight ahead out his window, aligns with and does—is the active participant in the docking itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you grab them, first try. No problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the lug probe goes into a drogue and latches on. And that—when it latches on, you throw a switch and pull the lunar module right into the capture latches of the command module. You have what they call a hard dock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there—do you—could you feel that docking? You knew you had them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could see it, and you could feel it. They’re not as—it happens very, very slow. It’s a slow maneuver, so you’re going maybe—probably less than a tenth of a foot a second. But you can feel a slight—you go—but you can look out and see the vehicle the whole time, and kind of go—as soon as it docks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long after that docking is it before you, you know, open up and let them in? And I’ve read that you didn’t let them in right away because they were so dirty filthy."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.193475228555346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the lug probe goes into a drogue and latches on. And that—when it latches on, you throw a switch and pull the lunar module right into the capture latches of the command module. You have what they call a hard dock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there—do you—could you feel that docking? You knew you had them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could see it, and you could feel it. They’re not as—it happens very, very slow. It’s a slow maneuver, so you’re going maybe—probably less than a tenth of a foot a second. But you can feel a slight—you go—but you can look out and see the vehicle the whole time, and kind of go—as soon as it docks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long after that docking is it before you, you know, open up and let them in? And I’ve read that you didn’t let them in right away because they were so dirty filthy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "True story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So—but how long of a delay? How—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.770528031728162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could see it, and you could feel it. They’re not as—it happens very, very slow. It’s a slow maneuver, so you’re going maybe—probably less than a tenth of a foot a second. But you can feel a slight—you go—but you can look out and see the vehicle the whole time, and kind of go—as soon as it docks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long after that docking is it before you, you know, open up and let them in? And I’ve read that you didn’t let them in right away because they were so dirty filthy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "True story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So—but how long of a delay? How—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s right—virtually right away. Once the docking takes place, you pressurize the tunnel between the two vehicles, and then you equalize that pressure between the command module and the tunnel. And at the same time as equalizing between a LM, so that all three sections are virtually at the same pressure, take the hatch out of the command module, stow it, and check the docking latches. Make sure that all the latches are connected. Make an electrical connection. And clear out the probe and all that, because the tunnel is completely open, and then when they open their hatch to transfer the lunar materials and whatever they need to bring back in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you really wouldn’t let them in right away?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.411697813031291, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "True story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So—but how long of a delay? How—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s right—virtually right away. Once the docking takes place, you pressurize the tunnel between the two vehicles, and then you equalize that pressure between the command module and the tunnel. And at the same time as equalizing between a LM, so that all three sections are virtually at the same pressure, take the hatch out of the command module, stow it, and check the docking latches. Make sure that all the latches are connected. Make an electrical connection. And clear out the probe and all that, because the tunnel is completely open, and then when they open their hatch to transfer the lunar materials and whatever they need to bring back in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you really wouldn’t let them in right away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope. They were too dirty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us that story."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.012997570034768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s right—virtually right away. Once the docking takes place, you pressurize the tunnel between the two vehicles, and then you equalize that pressure between the command module and the tunnel. And at the same time as equalizing between a LM, so that all three sections are virtually at the same pressure, take the hatch out of the command module, stow it, and check the docking latches. Make sure that all the latches are connected. Make an electrical connection. And clear out the probe and all that, because the tunnel is completely open, and then when they open their hatch to transfer the lunar materials and whatever they need to bring back in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you really wouldn’t let them in right away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope. They were too dirty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us that story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s very simple. I had a clean command module, and I looked out in there and I couldn’t even see them! There was a big, black cloud. I thought Joe BFSTPLK had been along for the ride. But I said, “You know, this—you guys are going to just get all that dust and dirt inside the command module. You can’t come in until you take off all your clothes and put them in these bags.” And that’s what they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you made them strip naked?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.42345379016638, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s very simple. I had a clean command module, and I looked out in there and I couldn’t even see them! There was a big, black cloud. I thought Joe BFSTPLK had been along for the ride. But I said, “You know, this—you guys are going to just get all that dust and dirt inside the command module. You can’t come in until you take off all your clothes and put them in these bags.” And that’s what they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you made them strip naked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were buck naked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first space streakers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the—did any dust come in with them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.248281989073755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were buck naked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first space streakers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the—did any dust come in with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little, probably. It’s—you know, in zero-g things tend to float around, and there’s circulation with the air. But they actually bagged up their suits, put them in bags, and handed them over. And I stowed them in the command module, and I flew them back home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, now the big event’s over. What’s that ride home like where, you know, it’s not anticipation anymore? It’s—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.164757765637505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first space streakers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the—did any dust come in with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little, probably. It’s—you know, in zero-g things tend to float around, and there’s circulation with the air. But they actually bagged up their suits, put them in bags, and handed them over. And I stowed them in the command module, and I flew them back home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, now the big event’s over. What’s that ride home like where, you know, it’s not anticipation anymore? It’s—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different. Totally different than going out, you’re right. Three days of not much activity coming back, except for the barbican maneuver. And there’s certain navigational things to perform. But it’s not much going on. And—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it a letdown?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.183064184041672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little, probably. It’s—you know, in zero-g things tend to float around, and there’s circulation with the air. But they actually bagged up their suits, put them in bags, and handed them over. And I stowed them in the command module, and I flew them back home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, now the big event’s over. What’s that ride home like where, you know, it’s not anticipation anymore? It’s—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different. Totally different than going out, you’re right. Three days of not much activity coming back, except for the barbican maneuver. And there’s certain navigational things to perform. But it’s not much going on. And—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it a letdown?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhat maybe. You still have a reentry to go through and everything. But it’s a lack of activity. I had a sense of, “Well, gee, it’s kind of boring.” Except, my job was better than theirs because I had some things to do on the way home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Al Bean really slept the whole way back?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.314515760046302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different. Totally different than going out, you’re right. Three days of not much activity coming back, except for the barbican maneuver. And there’s certain navigational things to perform. But it’s not much going on. And—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it a letdown?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhat maybe. You still have a reentry to go through and everything. But it’s a lack of activity. I had a sense of, “Well, gee, it’s kind of boring.” Except, my job was better than theirs because I had some things to do on the way home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Al Bean really slept the whole way back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he did. I never saw him on the way back. He was in his sleeping bag under the couch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was just tired."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.571684177829223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhat maybe. You still have a reentry to go through and everything. But it’s a lack of activity. I had a sense of, “Well, gee, it’s kind of boring.” Except, my job was better than theirs because I had some things to do on the way home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Al Bean really slept the whole way back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he did. I never saw him on the way back. He was in his sleeping bag under the couch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was just tired."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Must’ve been. Must’ve been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—what’s reentry like? I mean, we don’t hear much about that. The focus is always on the glory of going to the Moon—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.857426864254691, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he did. I never saw him on the way back. He was in his sleeping bag under the couch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was just tired."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Must’ve been. Must’ve been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—what’s reentry like? I mean, we don’t hear much about that. The focus is always on the glory of going to the Moon—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. We had an event that—on the way back in, just before reentry, when we had the Sun go behind the Earth and it gave us a very awesome view of what we call a solar eclipse by the Earth. And somebody said, “Well, isn’t night that all the time?” And I said, “Well, yeah, it is.” But this was a spectacular sight when the Sun went behind the Earth and it—well, in reverse of a solar orbit by the Moon. But there was this flash of light and the atmosphere was totally illuminated for a crescent portion of the Earth, which we were able to obtain several photographs that. We actually ran out of the good Hasselblad film, so we used every remaining piece of film that we could find to capture that event. And we knew this was going to happen, so we anticipated that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What’s it like to look back at the Earth from so far away? What do—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.844729255074975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. It may be for some people. But I think, by and large, I look at it this way. I came back with the same stuff I left with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Reentry. The process of going as—becoming this fireball, to crash through the Earth’s atmosphere, and then say, “And then we’ll just hit the ocean.” What is that like? I mean, do you sense that you’re a fireball? Do—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Very much so. There’re various phases of flight that are dynamic, and there’s a lot of it, even in Earth orbit, that’s not dynamic. But the launches, the burns, the engine burns, changes in orbit, those are moments of dynamic activity that takes place. Certainly the reentry from lunar distances, at those velocities, is an extremely dynamic time. It’s over in a very short period of time, some, what? eight, eight and a half minutes to reenter. But the interesting thing, when you start, you want to make sure you’re at the right angle. And you’re navigating all the way back to make sure that you intersect this horizon at a depressed angle of six and a half degrees. The consequences of being more than a half degree off in either direction are not very wholesome. Talk about structural failures and skipping back out. So, those decisions are made and you’re very confident that the corrections have been made and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And are you making those? Or is Pete Conrad—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ground is actually doing the navigating and giving you attitude or velocity changes to perform midcourse corrections."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you’re performing them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.962521389142873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as we were concerned, it was just a normal recovery from normal distances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mission—you felt Mission Control reacted the same way they had when Neil and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t know how they reacted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was told, you know, maybe later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you hear them at all when you’re—or—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 17.23768072733688, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was told, you know, maybe later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you hear them at all when you’re—or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I—no, I—they’re pretty quiet at that time because you’re talking to the helicopters, and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—the recovery forces that are around the vehicle. I’m sure when they saw the parachutes deploy properly, they were probably very relieved. I hope they were!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said that nobody remembers who’s second. But—and we do tend to remember, you know, the tickertape parades that greeted Neil and Mike and Buzz. But what was the reception when you were finally finished all your reports and got out of quarantine? What was the reception?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.26408969704098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I—no, I—they’re pretty quiet at that time because you’re talking to the helicopters, and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—the recovery forces that are around the vehicle. I’m sure when they saw the parachutes deploy properly, they were probably very relieved. I hope they were!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said that nobody remembers who’s second. But—and we do tend to remember, you know, the tickertape parades that greeted Neil and Mike and Buzz. But what was the reception when you were finally finished all your reports and got out of quarantine? What was the reception?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was—hell, I don’t know how to express it. They—we were here at the [Manned Spacecraft] Center [Houston, Texas]. It was, you know, they gathered around when we got out and were glad to see us out. And they had a little homecoming going on. But we were sent by President Nixon on a around-the-world tour that lasted about 42 days with our wives and people from the State Department and from NASA. We visited something like 20 countries, starting with South America, went to Europe, Africa, Asia.\\n\\n It was very—that was a tough job, doing all that sort of thing, because you were representing your country in that regard, meeting heads of States in all these places, dealing with heads of States and the Ambassador staff. It was an interesting time, which I’d never had the opportunity obviously to do that before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I get that sense the—that, you know, 30 years later people may not remember who was second as much. But at the time, there was still a real sense of excitement surrounding Apollo."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.849231408835365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. At that time, it—certainly the next flight, Apollo 13, had a little bit of excitement to it and then it probably started to fall off a little bit. You know, Americans are an interesting group of people. Once they’ve accomplished something, they tend to press on and go and do something else. James Michener addresses this very, very well in his book Space when he talks about the challenges that we have experienced during a Depression, during World War 2, the atomic bomb, the Cold War, that once we accomplish certain things, we tend to put it behind us and just go ahead and look into the future, see what else is out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you’ve accomplished this. But you still had this other goal of, as you say, going the last 60 miles. So, I would imagine fairly soon you’re assigned as the backup crew to Apollo 15? And you start that training process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As soon as we got back from that world tour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So, you’re in training. And Jack Schmitt is going to be your—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lunar module pilot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—lunar module pilot. And I’ve read that in the training with him, that at one point, and you—I want you to tell this story, and you’ve got that little grin on your face. But that a simulation guy decides he’s going to, like, make your equipment fail so that Jack will have to fly and land on the Moon. And that—what did—tell the story as you remember it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.499146009817072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As soon as we got back from that world tour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So, you’re in training. And Jack Schmitt is going to be your—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lunar module pilot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—lunar module pilot. And I’ve read that in the training with him, that at one point, and you—I want you to tell this story, and you’ve got that little grin on your face. But that a simulation guy decides he’s going to, like, make your equipment fail so that Jack will have to fly and land on the Moon. And that—what did—tell the story as you remember it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did Jack land?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You tell the story!"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.221273344241191, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lunar module pilot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—lunar module pilot. And I’ve read that in the training with him, that at one point, and you—I want you to tell this story, and you’ve got that little grin on your face. But that a simulation guy decides he’s going to, like, make your equipment fail so that Jack will have to fly and land on the Moon. And that—what did—tell the story as you remember it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did Jack land?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You tell the story!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t—I wasn’t going to let them mess me up like that. So, I just traded places with Jack and landed from his side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just pushed him out of the way?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.023637049156878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did Jack land?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You tell the story!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t—I wasn’t going to let them mess me up like that. So, I just traded places with Jack and landed from his side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just pushed him out of the way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we just kind of said, “Jack, I want to trade places with you.” So, we just did that and then I flipped the bird at the simulation people as I left the building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were angry."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.915152276840976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t—I wasn’t going to let them mess me up like that. So, I just traded places with Jack and landed from his side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just pushed him out of the way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we just kind of said, “Jack, I want to trade places with you.” So, we just did that and then I flipped the bird at the simulation people as I left the building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were angry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn’t angry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Someone else tells the story that you got—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.90572475204553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we just kind of said, “Jack, I want to trade places with you.” So, we just did that and then I flipped the bird at the simulation people as I left the building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were angry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn’t angry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Someone else tells the story that you got—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t get angry. I get even!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How’d you get even? You landed it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.895249724495033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn’t angry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Someone else tells the story that you got—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t get angry. I get even!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How’d you get even? You landed it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well—No, that’s kind of a—that’s what—I think Jack put the Sim people up to it, because it wasn’t a Sim back with Houston. It was just done locally at the Cape. And I think Jack Schmitt went to those guys and tried to set me up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He never confirmed that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.994721916105592, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t get angry. I get even!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How’d you get even? You landed it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well—No, that’s kind of a—that’s what—I think Jack put the Sim people up to it, because it wasn’t a Sim back with Houston. It was just done locally at the Cape. And I think Jack Schmitt went to those guys and tried to set me up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He never confirmed that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we—you know, they in the duplication of controls, with the exception of rate of descent switch, is almost either side can utilize the navigational equipment and perform those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, in the summer of 1970, you’re in training still as a backup to Apollo 15, correct? And you get the word that Apollo 18’s been canceled. And that’s what you’re banking on as being the your chance to be prime."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.216357684561768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well—No, that’s kind of a—that’s what—I think Jack put the Sim people up to it, because it wasn’t a Sim back with Houston. It was just done locally at the Cape. And I think Jack Schmitt went to those guys and tried to set me up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He never confirmed that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we—you know, they in the duplication of controls, with the exception of rate of descent switch, is almost either side can utilize the navigational equipment and perform those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, in the summer of 1970, you’re in training still as a backup to Apollo 15, correct? And you get the word that Apollo 18’s been canceled. And that’s what you’re banking on as being the your chance to be prime."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhere along in that timeframe, yes. I don’t recall the exact dates or the sequence of when I did learn that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or do you even know where you were when you heard it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.573730760624185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we—you know, they in the duplication of controls, with the exception of rate of descent switch, is almost either side can utilize the navigational equipment and perform those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, in the summer of 1970, you’re in training still as a backup to Apollo 15, correct? And you get the word that Apollo 18’s been canceled. And that’s what you’re banking on as being the your chance to be prime."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhere along in that timeframe, yes. I don’t recall the exact dates or the sequence of when I did learn that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or do you even know where you were when you heard it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you know your reaction."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:457", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.081923067360206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhere along in that timeframe, yes. I don’t recall the exact dates or the sequence of when I did learn that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or do you even know where you were when you heard it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you know your reaction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I said, “How the hell am I going to get to fly 17?” That was my reaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was—you immediately thought, “I’ve got to angle for that last flight.”"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.757692297066896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you know your reaction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I said, “How the hell am I going to get to fly 17?” That was my reaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was—you immediately thought, “I’ve got to angle for that last flight.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t try to angle. I said, “I want to fly 17!” They really—with Deke Slayton, there wasn’t much angling going on that we made!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do—when Apollo 15 flew and you knew that prime crew—one of the things that came out of Apollo 15, and it’s unfair that it’s remembered for this, is the stamp affair. You know, and the fact that it was later determined that the guys took these stamps along and, you know, “We’re going to make some money off selling these stamp covers that had been to the Moon.” Do you remember what your reaction was when that came out and that—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.508546996740996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I said, “How the hell am I going to get to fly 17?” That was my reaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was—you immediately thought, “I’ve got to angle for that last flight.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t try to angle. I said, “I want to fly 17!” They really—with Deke Slayton, there wasn’t much angling going on that we made!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do—when Apollo 15 flew and you knew that prime crew—one of the things that came out of Apollo 15, and it’s unfair that it’s remembered for this, is the stamp affair. You know, and the fact that it was later determined that the guys took these stamps along and, you know, “We’re going to make some money off selling these stamp covers that had been to the Moon.” Do you remember what your reaction was when that came out and that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was long gone. I had left the Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had left because you were—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.660429468307663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. 15 flew in, what? July of ’71. I believe that’s correct. And then after 15 had flown their flight, I went back and assumed responsibility for the Office in terms of advanced projects and worked on that on an original design of the Orbiter for six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did you have your duties as Head of the Apollo Branch in the Astronaut Office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until I retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Chief—Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From that—from the end of Apollo 15 for that next six-month period until I retired in January of ’72."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, January of ’72 you retired. And there was already work being done on the Orbiter and the Shuttle Program."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.178254964786293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until I retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Chief—Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From that—from the end of Apollo 15 for that next six-month period until I retired in January of ’72."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, January of ’72 you retired. And there was already work being done on the Orbiter and the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Original designs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you think of the Shuttle Program initially? What was your first reaction when you said, “We’re going to build this space plane. And it’s going to be able to land and take off and be reused again.” What was your initial—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.864727738651435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From that—from the end of Apollo 15 for that next six-month period until I retired in January of ’72."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, January of ’72 you retired. And there was already work being done on the Orbiter and the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Original designs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you think of the Shuttle Program initially? What was your first reaction when you said, “We’re going to build this space plane. And it’s going to be able to land and take off and be reused again.” What was your initial—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I thought that was the first logical first step to try and find a vehicle you can reuse. Everything we’d flown up until that time was space hardware and space junk, really. We dumped the boosters in the ocean or wherever they went. Everything that we flew could not be ever used again, except for displays in museums! So, I anticipated that that was a very interesting prospect. When we first started out, we were going to reuse the booster. We were going to fly them back and put somebody in them!\\n\\n And we were going to fly the boosters back and land to be reused. The Orbiter itself was going to be reused. And the arguments that we had, or the discussions, I should say, because really that’s what they were, was whether this Orbiter was going to have engines on it to begin with, before it first came—before its first flight. Whether or not it was going to have ejection seats. All of these things were being discussed and evaluated to the point that the boosters were even going to be manned and flown back. How would you like to have been that pilot? And so, these things were all in discussions in that six-month period. Those are the kinds of things that we looked at and tried to simulate different landing aspects. People were making tape for the simulators that would come back and land as a glider."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your specific—I mean, do you remember specific involvements that you had in those early days of the Shuttle Program? Just in that short period of time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.738586376279372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Original designs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you think of the Shuttle Program initially? What was your first reaction when you said, “We’re going to build this space plane. And it’s going to be able to land and take off and be reused again.” What was your initial—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I thought that was the first logical first step to try and find a vehicle you can reuse. Everything we’d flown up until that time was space hardware and space junk, really. We dumped the boosters in the ocean or wherever they went. Everything that we flew could not be ever used again, except for displays in museums! So, I anticipated that that was a very interesting prospect. When we first started out, we were going to reuse the booster. We were going to fly them back and put somebody in them!\\n\\n And we were going to fly the boosters back and land to be reused. The Orbiter itself was going to be reused. And the arguments that we had, or the discussions, I should say, because really that’s what they were, was whether this Orbiter was going to have engines on it to begin with, before it first came—before its first flight. Whether or not it was going to have ejection seats. All of these things were being discussed and evaluated to the point that the boosters were even going to be manned and flown back. How would you like to have been that pilot? And so, these things were all in discussions in that six-month period. Those are the kinds of things that we looked at and tried to simulate different landing aspects. People were making tape for the simulators that would come back and land as a glider."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your specific—I mean, do you remember specific involvements that you had in those early days of the Shuttle Program? Just in that short period of time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly management meetings and discussions about how we were going to build it, how we were going to do it. Flying some of the early simulations, we found that we could’ve flown—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You personally flew some early simulations of the Shuttle?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.616805938544996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m not John Young. John Young could stick it out. I had an opportunity to do something else. A good friend of mine here in Houston, John Meekham, owned the New Orleans Saints. And we met—well, I’d known John many, many years. As a matter of fact, raced his boats for him; and we became friends. And we met, I forget exactly when, along in the end—near the end of 1971 at a reception that President Nixon had for race car drivers. USAC and NASCAR and those. He had the people that were involved in that, we had become friends with as well, so the Apollo 12 crew we’re lifetime members of USAC. And those people that knew that had invited us back to the White House for a reception for the race car drivers.\\n\\n And at that time, John approached me and asked if I’d be interested in going to New Orleans and working for him over there with the football team. I didn’t respond, obviously, right away but reflected upon it. I had 22 years of military service. I could retire from the Navy. I looked down the road to flights and there weren’t anymore. The three Skylab flights were assigned. The ASTP [Apollo Soyuz Test Project] missions were all assigned. So, beyond that, and that was the 1975 timeframe, beyond that, there weren’t anymore flights. And I was—I came here to fly. I had the opportunity to fly twice, and I saw no additional opportunities to fly. The good Lord only knew when Orbiter was going to fly, and it wasn’t until 1981! And I decided that I needed to do something else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Still a Saints fan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can follow them. I’m not sure what—if I’m a fan. Losing is agony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—so, you had retired before Apollo 17. Or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I retired before 16."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, but you went back to watch Apollo 17? I’ve read that you were at the Kennedy—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.685339931716662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can follow them. I’m not sure what—if I’m a fan. Losing is agony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—so, you had retired before Apollo 17. Or—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I retired before 16."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, but you went back to watch Apollo 17? I’ve read that you were at the Kennedy—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—Space Center. Correct. What were you feelings? Reflecting on—this was a flight you had fought hard, I mean, you had fought really hard to get onto that flight, and—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.539266590796291, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I retired before 16."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, but you went back to watch Apollo 17? I’ve read that you were at the Kennedy—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—Space Center. Correct. What were you feelings? Reflecting on—this was a flight you had fought hard, I mean, you had fought really hard to get onto that flight, and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All those—that emotion’s gone and over with, you know. There’s nothing—you can’t go back and create anything. I just enjoyed being there and taking friends. Took the Meekhams as my guest to watch the launch. It was the first night launch of the Saturn V; and in spite of all the delays and waiting until about midnight for 17 to fly, it was just an—I enjoyed it. It was very spectacular to see. And any emotion that I had about 17, they were long gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there the emotions, though, of just as an astronaut, you know, as a space explorer, was there emotion of knowing it was the last one? For anyone?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.376962878662546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—Space Center. Correct. What were you feelings? Reflecting on—this was a flight you had fought hard, I mean, you had fought really hard to get onto that flight, and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All those—that emotion’s gone and over with, you know. There’s nothing—you can’t go back and create anything. I just enjoyed being there and taking friends. Took the Meekhams as my guest to watch the launch. It was the first night launch of the Saturn V; and in spite of all the delays and waiting until about midnight for 17 to fly, it was just an—I enjoyed it. It was very spectacular to see. And any emotion that I had about 17, they were long gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there the emotions, though, of just as an astronaut, you know, as a space explorer, was there emotion of knowing it was the last one? For anyone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there’s a certain amount of regret. I wish they had continued the Program through 20, which they had originally intended to do. They had—but I can’t argue with the decision. The decision was a good one, an appropriate one at the time. The risk-to-reward was going up. The risks were always there the same. The rewards were diminishing. The amount of scientific information and what we learned was minimal. I shouldn’t say “minimal.” But in a sense that it was repetitive and we weren’t gaining much more. We would have if we’d have landed on the back side of the Moon; that would’ve been a totally different story.\\n\\n But the Program ended. And probably appropriately so, because it allowed us then to look at Skylab. And that allowed us then to close the loop. The Cold War was over in 1975. Lo and behold! we have a joint mission with the Soviet Union. Two cosmonauts and three astronauts; joint operations in orbit. Full circle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you follow that flight closely?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.307736531847272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All those—that emotion’s gone and over with, you know. There’s nothing—you can’t go back and create anything. I just enjoyed being there and taking friends. Took the Meekhams as my guest to watch the launch. It was the first night launch of the Saturn V; and in spite of all the delays and waiting until about midnight for 17 to fly, it was just an—I enjoyed it. It was very spectacular to see. And any emotion that I had about 17, they were long gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there the emotions, though, of just as an astronaut, you know, as a space explorer, was there emotion of knowing it was the last one? For anyone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there’s a certain amount of regret. I wish they had continued the Program through 20, which they had originally intended to do. They had—but I can’t argue with the decision. The decision was a good one, an appropriate one at the time. The risk-to-reward was going up. The risks were always there the same. The rewards were diminishing. The amount of scientific information and what we learned was minimal. I shouldn’t say “minimal.” But in a sense that it was repetitive and we weren’t gaining much more. We would have if we’d have landed on the back side of the Moon; that would’ve been a totally different story.\\n\\n But the Program ended. And probably appropriately so, because it allowed us then to look at Skylab. And that allowed us then to close the loop. The Cold War was over in 1975. Lo and behold! we have a joint mission with the Soviet Union. Two cosmonauts and three astronauts; joint operations in orbit. Full circle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you follow that flight closely?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you excited that Deke Slayton finally got to fly?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.341929479830302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there’s a certain amount of regret. I wish they had continued the Program through 20, which they had originally intended to do. They had—but I can’t argue with the decision. The decision was a good one, an appropriate one at the time. The risk-to-reward was going up. The risks were always there the same. The rewards were diminishing. The amount of scientific information and what we learned was minimal. I shouldn’t say “minimal.” But in a sense that it was repetitive and we weren’t gaining much more. We would have if we’d have landed on the back side of the Moon; that would’ve been a totally different story.\\n\\n But the Program ended. And probably appropriately so, because it allowed us then to look at Skylab. And that allowed us then to close the loop. The Cold War was over in 1975. Lo and behold! we have a joint mission with the Soviet Union. Two cosmonauts and three astronauts; joint operations in orbit. Full circle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you follow that flight closely?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you excited that Deke Slayton finally got to fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. If any—nobody deserves to fly in this business. But if anybody does, Deke Slayton was the one to have deserved to have flown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, there—you know, there’s not, like—because Deke controlled all your fates for so long, you could easily have developed either resentment toward him or what you seem to have developed, which is respect and friendship. I mean, I take it that no—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.491032755367002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you excited that Deke Slayton finally got to fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. If any—nobody deserves to fly in this business. But if anybody does, Deke Slayton was the one to have deserved to have flown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, there—you know, there’s not, like—because Deke controlled all your fates for so long, you could easily have developed either resentment toward him or what you seem to have developed, which is respect and friendship. I mean, I take it that no—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t imagine anybody developing a resentment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think anybody has, which is amazing considering he controlled your fates, really."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.0753490807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t imagine anybody developing a resentment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think anybody has, which is amazing considering he controlled your fates, really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we—that was an accepted—He was the boss. And when it—you know, people—a lot of people don’t understand this. When you’re in the military, you go, “Aye, aye, sir.” And you carry out your orders. That’s the culture. Thank God, it’s the culture!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I just feel that there—people felt that Deke was not—well, I shouldn’t say that. He was not treated improperly. But this—the decision could’ve gone totally the other way about his flying on Mercury. It didn’t, and he went through a lot of trouble and tribulations to get back on flight status, even though they probably would never have allowed him to fly alone. He was not about to, even though he was a Mercury astronaut, to be the commander of that [ASTP] flight. But Deke deserved to fly; and thank God, he had the opportunity to do so!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—you know, you mentioned that you followed the Apollo-Soyuz. Were you struck at the time at just how far the circle had come?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.305943423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we—that was an accepted—He was the boss. And when it—you know, people—a lot of people don’t understand this. When you’re in the military, you go, “Aye, aye, sir.” And you carry out your orders. That’s the culture. Thank God, it’s the culture!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I just feel that there—people felt that Deke was not—well, I shouldn’t say that. He was not treated improperly. But this—the decision could’ve gone totally the other way about his flying on Mercury. It didn’t, and he went through a lot of trouble and tribulations to get back on flight status, even though they probably would never have allowed him to fly alone. He was not about to, even though he was a Mercury astronaut, to be the commander of that [ASTP] flight. But Deke deserved to fly; and thank God, he had the opportunity to do so!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—you know, you mentioned that you followed the Apollo-Soyuz. Were you struck at the time at just how far the circle had come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I think so. Matter of fact, my command module pilot was a command module pilot on ASTP. Vance [D.] Brand was on my backup crew on 15, and it gave Vance an opportunity. I was glad to see that he had the opportunity to fly as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you still follow the space program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:505", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.67327047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I just feel that there—people felt that Deke was not—well, I shouldn’t say that. He was not treated improperly. But this—the decision could’ve gone totally the other way about his flying on Mercury. It didn’t, and he went through a lot of trouble and tribulations to get back on flight status, even though they probably would never have allowed him to fly alone. He was not about to, even though he was a Mercury astronaut, to be the commander of that [ASTP] flight. But Deke deserved to fly; and thank God, he had the opportunity to do so!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—you know, you mentioned that you followed the Apollo-Soyuz. Were you struck at the time at just how far the circle had come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I think so. Matter of fact, my command module pilot was a command module pilot on ASTP. Vance [D.] Brand was on my backup crew on 15, and it gave Vance an opportunity. I was glad to see that he had the opportunity to fly as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you still follow the space program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to the detail, certainly, but yeah. I know what they’re doing, and what they’re not doing, and what’s going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think they’re not doing that they should be doing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:507", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.7480783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I think so. Matter of fact, my command module pilot was a command module pilot on ASTP. Vance [D.] Brand was on my backup crew on 15, and it gave Vance an opportunity. I was glad to see that he had the opportunity to fly as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you still follow the space program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to the detail, certainly, but yeah. I know what they’re doing, and what they’re not doing, and what’s going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think they’re not doing that they should be doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they’re not doing the things they should be doing because they can’t. The budget’s not there. The leadership’s not there. You know, beyond ISS, and I anticipate some problems along that one as well, but what’s beyond the International Space Station? Who’s out there challenging humankind to go further and return to the Moon? Or go to Mars?\\n\\n All of these things should be happening. I—the disappointment I have, we haven’t been back to the lunar surface since 1972. That’s a disgrace! And we just don’t—the culture is not the same as it was in the ’60s. It just doesn’t exist. It probably never will be replicated. And we’re just going to have to go along at the pace that we’re going along. And in some senses, I don’t think to point fingers, but the politics and the economics of the situation have probably—and the will of the American people have probably dictated that we are where we are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you compare the NASA of today with the NASA of your time, what stands out at you as the greatest contrast, greatest disappointments, greatest improvements? I mean, I don’t know if you know enough about the NASA organization—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.5927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s probably a true statement, Catherine. I probably don’t know enough about the NASA of today to make that comparison. The NASA of today is not the NASA of the ’60s. The leadership is not the same. The risk takers are not there. Can you imagine going to the Moon today with one computer? I can’t. And I don’t think anybody here could look at it and think of it in that way.\\n\\n We were one of two things. Either we were very good or we were very, very lucky in being able to accomplish those missions. But there was a Cold War. There were risk takers. There were people willing to take those risks, willing to make those management decisions and assume those responsibilities for their decisions. We don’t have that today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think not? I mean, why—do you think made it possible then? Was it just the race with the Soviets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think probably a great deal of it was the Cold War. It was the inspiration that young President John Kennedy gave. You know, he started—had rough times starting out behind, trying to find something to catch up. The Berlin Wall going up in his Presidency. The Cuban Crisis. This country needed a shot in the arm. Think about the 1960s. Vietnam. Riots. Campus unrest situations. Woodstock. I mean, this country was a bloody mess! And it was the one thing that gave it somewhat of a shot in the arm; and it was a totally different time and place in history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You all were the bright spot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we hoped that we gave people something to look up to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any stories that you think are worth telling that I didn’t know to ask you about? Because I can’t, you know, all the—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think probably a great deal of it was the Cold War. It was the inspiration that young President John Kennedy gave. You know, he started—had rough times starting out behind, trying to find something to catch up. The Berlin Wall going up in his Presidency. The Cuban Crisis. This country needed a shot in the arm. Think about the 1960s. Vietnam. Riots. Campus unrest situations. Woodstock. I mean, this country was a bloody mess! And it was the one thing that gave it somewhat of a shot in the arm; and it was a totally different time and place in history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You all were the bright spot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we hoped that we gave people something to look up to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any stories that you think are worth telling that I didn’t know to ask you about? Because I can’t, you know, all the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m impressed with the research you’ve done. I think you’ve done pretty well. I probably said more than I should. But I don’t care!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, no, no. Any—let me just have you reflect on a couple of key figures from this: Chris Kraft, just your reflect—thoughts."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 7.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His nickname was “the Teacher.” And he was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was one of those rare individuals. He and Bob Gilruth and Wernher von Braun; and those people came along at a very, very unique time in our history. And their contributions are very significant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gene Kranz."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gung-ho. All the way. A tiger by the tail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about some of the NASA Administrators of your time, like Jim Webb and—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:523", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was one of those rare individuals. He and Bob Gilruth and Wernher von Braun; and those people came along at a very, very unique time in our history. And their contributions are very significant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gene Kranz."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gung-ho. All the way. A tiger by the tail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about some of the NASA Administrators of your time, like Jim Webb and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim, we respected. If it hadn’t been for Jim Webb and his acumen in the political arena, this would never have been done. And in particular after the Apollo 1 fire.\\n\\n Other leadership, I think a lot of respect I have for Dr. [George E.] Mueller, who if he had not made the decision for the all-up testing—don���t test these things; save missiles; put them all together and go for it—saved us a tremendous amount of time with the Saturn V and its development.\\n\\n There are other people of industry. Lee Evans in Grumman. McDonell’s for the Mercury and Gemini. The—Harrison Storms with North American and with the Apollo command and service module. All these people, and many, many more, just tremendous, great contributors to the—Bob Gilruth was one of my very favorites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why? Just because of his leadership and his—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gung-ho. All the way. A tiger by the tail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about some of the NASA Administrators of your time, like Jim Webb and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim, we respected. If it hadn’t been for Jim Webb and his acumen in the political arena, this would never have been done. And in particular after the Apollo 1 fire.\\n\\n Other leadership, I think a lot of respect I have for Dr. [George E.] Mueller, who if he had not made the decision for the all-up testing—don’t test these things; save missiles; put them all together and go for it—saved us a tremendous amount of time with the Saturn V and its development.\\n\\n There are other people of industry. Lee Evans in Grumman. McDonell’s for the Mercury and Gemini. The—Harrison Storms with North American and with the Apollo command and service module. All these people, and many, many more, just tremendous, great contributors to the—Bob Gilruth was one of my very favorites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why? Just because of his leadership and his—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "His leadership. You bet. His vision. He and Wernher von Braun were visionaries in this game."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you want to be remembered in terms of your NASA career?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim, we respected. If it hadn’t been for Jim Webb and his acumen in the political arena, this would never have been done. And in particular after the Apollo 1 fire.\\n\\n Other leadership, I think a lot of respect I have for Dr. [George E.] Mueller, who if he had not made the decision for the all-up testing—don’t test these things; save missiles; put them all together and go for it—saved us a tremendous amount of time with the Saturn V and its development.\\n\\n There are other people of industry. Lee Evans in Grumman. McDonell’s for the Mercury and Gemini. The—Harrison Storms with North American and with the Apollo command and service module. All these people, and many, many more, just tremendous, great contributors to the—Bob Gilruth was one of my very favorites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why? Just because of his leadership and his—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "His leadership. You bet. His vision. He and Wernher von Braun were visionaries in this game."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you want to be remembered in terms of your NASA career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A contributor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who would have liked to have gone the last 60 miles?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His leadership. You bet. His vision. He and Wernher von Braun were visionaries in this game."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you want to be remembered in terms of your NASA career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A contributor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who would have liked to have gone the last 60 miles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, indeed!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Well, thank you very much for sharing all your stories."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00205:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A contributor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who would have liked to have gone the last 60 miles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, indeed!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Well, thank you very much for sharing all your stories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We really appreciate it."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.00536983594769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, on the staff at the time—not the family—[was] Dave Powers, who was a good friend of the . . . I mean, from Charlestown. And he was, you know, a sidekick and told jokes. He was not a policy guy, but he was on the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went back for the dedication, when the building was finally dedicated, to be there and help with . . . I don't know . . . invitations or something. They let me go back. And the Kennedy family was there, so I was there at the dedication of the new building on Columbia Point in Boston Harbor. But no, I never really met them. But, I have to say I was a fan. So, that's alright. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I could see being in awe when you walk in there and you're working on some of those papers and you're transcribing interviews and, you know . . . . It's history at your fingertips."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because it was recent history. It wasn't 50 years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Eight years."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 37.7837442621641, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went back for the dedication, when the building was finally dedicated, to be there and help with . . . I don't know . . . invitations or something. They let me go back. And the Kennedy family was there, so I was there at the dedication of the new building on Columbia Point in Boston Harbor. But no, I never really met them. But, I have to say I was a fan. So, that's alright. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I could see being in awe when you walk in there and you're working on some of those papers and you're transcribing interviews and, you know . . . . It's history at your fingertips."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because it was recent history. It wasn't 50 years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Eight years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even in 1971, it was very recent. And as I said, the Robert Kennedy assassination just added to what they had to handle. How do you handle, especially, the more personal records of assassinated men? You know, it was a trauma for that period of time in our history. But yeah, there is a little bit of . . . star . . . what is it? What is the word—you're caught up in the names and, you know, you're working with the President's records. I mean, how cool is that? I mean, yeah, and there was a lot of that going on with me. I know that I was just like . . . I couldn't believe it. It was all luck. It was not skill. It was luck. And as I said, the mentors that I had . . . . Mentors are so important and, later on in my career, I tried to be at least a little bit of a mentor to other people. But that was how I got into the National Archives. And that's pretty cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yes, I think so! Yeah. And so when you moved to the DC area, were you then working at AI? [CROSS-TALKING]"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.127507171736724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Right, right. Well, I was working with the records in Old Military, but that was a reference job. But, as I think of it now, in the Military Service Branch, I ended up doing a lot more physical work on the records, taking care of them physically, because there was a whole other staff, mostly technicians—again, you know, the technicians, they don't get the credit they deserve. But, I mean, they were the ones who were doing the reference mostly. I remember this was sometime in the 80s. The Archives was still under the ddIGSA, General Services Administration. And GSA said you could apply to get a desk computer. Wow!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[LAUGH] This was old typewriters, paper correspondence, everything. And so Maida and I—and there is an interview with Mayda. I didn't see one of Gerry. She should be included. Maida and I wrote up a proposal to get one of these newfangled computers with a desktop dot matrix printer. And we got it. [LAUGHS] I forget what we did with it. We probably made box lists or something like that. But, you know, that's . . . I'm just showing my age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very cool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the Archives. The Archives, you know, [had] old wooden desks that were there from the 30s, and manual typewriters that were there from the 30s, dial telephones—not even push-button telephones. I mean, it became a joke, but that's what we had. So, it was funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Technology has changed. [LAUGHS]"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 39.030563524151916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[LAUGH] This was old typewriters, paper correspondence, everything. And so Maida and I—and there is an interview with Mayda. I didn't see one of Gerry. She should be included. Maida and I wrote up a proposal to get one of these newfangled computers with a desktop dot matrix printer. And we got it. [LAUGHS] I forget what we did with it. We probably made box lists or something like that. But, you know, that's . . . I'm just showing my age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very cool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the Archives. The Archives, you know, [had] old wooden desks that were there from the 30s, and manual typewriters that were there from the 30s, dial telephones—not even push-button telephones. I mean, it became a joke, but that's what we had. So, it was funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Technology has changed. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[LAUGHS] Yep. Yep. From, you know, oral histories with earphones and reel-to reel- tapes to dot matrix printers, and now, look at you! [LAUGHS] So . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you notice any differences, in your particular job, when the agency went from being under GSA to becoming independent in 1985?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.370506975785474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a huge loss of space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a lot. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't know if you've been to the building, but that's where the theater is now . . . So the renovation happened after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was good. And just a brief aside—I think it probably was before records relocation—I was assigned to work on the updates to the National Archives Guide, and Sharon Thibodeau was head of that. You know, archivist extraordinaire. She lives in Colorado. And I don't know if there's an oral history of her, but there should be, because she was a director of different divisions. And Bob Matchette, again, who worked on the logistics, had that kind of mind. But he did administrative history, which people forget. It's kind of a boring thing, but it's so necessary for archivists. You got to know when this agency was established or this office within the agency [was established] or when it was transferred to another agency, you know. He did it all. I mean, we all did, but he was just so good at it. These people were just doing their job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point were you digitizing records? This was after the move or . . . ?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.441546617188877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ". . . be able to access."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it's just a drop in the bucket. Even though so much has been done, there's so much more to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. There's so many records out there, and they keep coming. So [CROSS- TALKING]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So, I think, in my career, I was always more [in] processing and with the records. I mean, I did some reference, but I liked the hands-on kind of thing, working with the records. Not that it was all, you know, we all had our moments. \"Oh my God. I wish I was done with this\" or, \"This is boring stuff.\" But, on the whole, we have a respect for what the records are, and you just do it and you make them better. That's what you try to do. It was always frustrating. You go into the stacks and you see so much more that needs to be helped, and you're not going to get to it, you know? You're never going to get it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, just not enough staff, not enough time."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.712829574654307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it's just a drop in the bucket. Even though so much has been done, there's so much more to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. There's so many records out there, and they keep coming. So [CROSS- TALKING]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So, I think, in my career, I was always more [in] processing and with the records. I mean, I did some reference, but I liked the hands-on kind of thing, working with the records. Not that it was all, you know, we all had our moments. \"Oh my God. I wish I was done with this\" or, \"This is boring stuff.\" But, on the whole, we have a respect for what the records are, and you just do it and you make them better. That's what you try to do. It was always frustrating. You go into the stacks and you see so much more that needs to be helped, and you're not going to get to it, you know? You're never going to get it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, just not enough staff, not enough time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not enough space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. We do the best that we can. Brenda, do you have just a few more minutes? I think we're just a little bit over our time that I scheduled."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.12536619406034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So, I think, in my career, I was always more [in] processing and with the records. I mean, I did some reference, but I liked the hands-on kind of thing, working with the records. Not that it was all, you know, we all had our moments. \"Oh my God. I wish I was done with this\" or, \"This is boring stuff.\" But, on the whole, we have a respect for what the records are, and you just do it and you make them better. That's what you try to do. It was always frustrating. You go into the stacks and you see so much more that needs to be helped, and you're not going to get to it, you know? You're never going to get it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, just not enough staff, not enough time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not enough space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. We do the best that we can. Brenda, do you have just a few more minutes? I think we're just a little bit over our time that I scheduled."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just didn't know if you still had a little bit of time."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.694851326733712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not enough space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. We do the best that we can. Brenda, do you have just a few more minutes? I think we're just a little bit over our time that I scheduled."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just didn't know if you still had a little bit of time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I'm fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Just wanted to make sure."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.43872369637079, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just didn't know if you still had a little bit of time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I'm fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Just wanted to make sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, if I can ever stop coughing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm glad you've got some water there. . . . I know that you also were an instructor for a while with the Modern Archives Institute?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.37635966263421, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I'm fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Just wanted to make sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, if I can ever stop coughing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm glad you've got some water there. . . . I know that you also were an instructor for a while with the Modern Archives Institute?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Institute. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit, what that was and how you got to be the instructor for that."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.52928851403801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, if I can ever stop coughing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm glad you've got some water there. . . . I know that you also were an instructor for a while with the Modern Archives Institute?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Institute. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit, what that was and how you got to be the instructor for that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[COUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just take your time."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.547378329384147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you'd have to find out. But it went on for a long time, and it's a shame, I think. And people look to the Archives. It was held twice a year, and there was usually a waiting list. People would inquire when the next Institute was scheduled: “When will you accept applications?\" And there were only—I don't know how many—probably 20 slots, 25 at the most, you know. So . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Small class. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean it's all about room and . . . . Anyway, I think it's a shame. Again, I don't think of myself as a teacher. I'm not. And I don't think I was the best. I could have done better. But it was always nice. [Some of the topics were:] How do you move records? And some of them were faced with that problem of having to move records out of where they were to another place and, you know, you could give them pointers. You could give them names of, \"You might want to talk with so and so\" and all that. Where do you get supplies? What are access issues? [CROSS-TALKING] So I don't know what the profession is doing now. I think the SAA still exists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the Oral History Association still exists, but I'm not sure. It's still all valid. It's still all valuable. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.27486481042683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean it's all about room and . . . . Anyway, I think it's a shame. Again, I don't think of myself as a teacher. I'm not. And I don't think I was the best. I could have done better. But it was always nice. [Some of the topics were:] How do you move records? And some of them were faced with that problem of having to move records out of where they were to another place and, you know, you could give them pointers. You could give them names of, \"You might want to talk with so and so\" and all that. Where do you get supplies? What are access issues? [CROSS-TALKING] So I don't know what the profession is doing now. I think the SAA still exists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the Oral History Association still exists, but I'm not sure. It's still all valid. It's still all valuable. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was just part of this. I wasn't running any of these, all my positions. I'm just a worker, you know. I wasn't responsible for a lot of the planning or anything. I just did the work. But it ended up being pretty rewarding. And I always, when I retired or [was] in the Institute, I've always said I felt very privileged to have had the experiences that I had with all the complaints, with all the \"Huh,\" with all the drudgery of some of it. But on the whole, I was very lucky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when did you retire?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.96992045484961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Forty-two years in the National Archives. So, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Time flies. From 1971 . . . I think it was . . . and I'm like, \"Oh, it was only about six years ago.\" No, I think it's been longer than that!!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 65, and I'm about to turn 75 so . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh! I would never have guessed. Wow."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6332449498329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Time flies. From 1971 . . . I think it was . . . and I'm like, \"Oh, it was only about six years ago.\" No, I think it's been longer than that!!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 65, and I'm about to turn 75 so . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh! I would never have guessed. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Forty-two years. And that's why your generation or my son's generation, they don't . . . \"You stayed in one place the whole time? That sounds awful.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of them do. Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.0991014401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, starting out, you don't know. I worked for the same agency, but I think I had a lot of different experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I met my husband there. So that's why I'm still in DC, and I'm not back up in Boston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Mhm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they throw you a party or anything when you left? Did they do anything?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 7.887890489000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I met my husband there. So that's why I'm still in DC, and I'm not back up in Boston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Mhm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they throw you a party or anything when you left? Did they do anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't want to do anything. Not [CROSS-TALKING]. And I felt like it was time. David had already retired. And I felt like I was turning into somebody I didn't want to be. You know, I was starting to sound like one of these old people that just, you know, \"Well, years ago we did it this way or that way or . . . .\" I think that I didn't want to become somebody like that. And there's always battles. There's always, \"We gotta move this. We're going to regionalize this, so we're going to do this, that and the other thing.\" And \"Why? Why do you have to do that? Don't you know how valuable these things are?\" You know, I was starting to become that, and I didn't want to. But with close staff, we just went—I didn't want a big party. I'm not a public person, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I hear that a lot, just wanting to kind of go out quietly."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.208767210000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they throw you a party or anything when you left? Did they do anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't want to do anything. Not [CROSS-TALKING]. And I felt like it was time. David had already retired. And I felt like I was turning into somebody I didn't want to be. You know, I was starting to sound like one of these old people that just, you know, \"Well, years ago we did it this way or that way or . . . .\" I think that I didn't want to become somebody like that. And there's always battles. There's always, \"We gotta move this. We're going to regionalize this, so we're going to do this, that and the other thing.\" And \"Why? Why do you have to do that? Don't you know how valuable these things are?\" You know, I was starting to become that, and I didn't want to. But with close staff, we just went—I didn't want a big party. I'm not a public person, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I hear that a lot, just wanting to kind of go out quietly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The archival profession is populated by a bunch of introverts, you know, and I know I'm one. I didn't want a big party, so just a group of us went—the Archives Building is situated in downtown DC on Pennsylvania Avenue, and the public entrance is on Constitution Avenue. On the other side of that is the Sculpture Garden or the National Gallery of Art. And they have a nice pavilion, and we just went out there and had–it was just a May day, and it was just beautiful. That's all I wanted. I didn't want a big public thing. So yeah, it was hard. It was sad. But, it happens to all of us. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. What do you think is your proudest accomplishment from your time at the Archives?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.6561000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, I'd like to think that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whether I did [the] work—I'm sure I have these, especially in Records Relocation���we had to put the sticky labels on notes and boxes or something and, you know, like a temporary series. I'm sure [the staff are] going in, and they're finding all of this stuff from Brenda about, \"You know, who is this person?\" like we've all done. We've all found notes from previous generations of archivists. And there's nobody that knows me now, except Trevor. [LAUGHS] There's some people at AI that know me, but it's your generation now so . . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are good foundations there, but you know with what the Archives is dealing with now, with electronic records and everything else, I couldn't have worked in that. I couldn't work in electronic records. I liked the paper. I was fortunate, you know. So . . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Is there anything else that you would like to bring up about your time at the Archives that I haven't already asked about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It can't just be management. It can't be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mhm. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But those are different stories. But yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we got where we are based on, you know, built on the people that came before us. So, it wasn't all management. Right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah. Include the worker bees."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But those are different stories. But yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we got where we are based on, you know, built on the people that came before us. So, it wasn't all management. Right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah. Include the worker bees."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I think that's one of the things with anything. I mean, if you have a job, whether it's moving the records or holdings maintenance, you're working with others doing that. You're giving them assignments to box and rehouse, and you're prodding them. My supervisor is saying, \"Why isn't that done? It's taken three years.\" And I’m saying, \"Well, you know. They're doing it. It'll get done!\" So . . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, we'll definitely reach out to others."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah. Include the worker bees."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I think that's one of the things with anything. I mean, if you have a job, whether it's moving the records or holdings maintenance, you're working with others doing that. You're giving them assignments to box and rehouse, and you're prodding them. My supervisor is saying, \"Why isn't that done? It's taken three years.\" And I’m saying, \"Well, you know. They're doing it. It'll get done!\" So . . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, we'll definitely reach out to others."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're never working alone. You're never working alone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mhm. Right. It's all teamwork. Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I think that's one of the things with anything. I mean, if you have a job, whether it's moving the records or holdings maintenance, you're working with others doing that. You're giving them assignments to box and rehouse, and you're prodding them. My supervisor is saying, \"Why isn't that done? It's taken three years.\" And I’m saying, \"Well, you know. They're doing it. It'll get done!\" So . . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, we'll definitely reach out to others."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're never working alone. You're never working alone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mhm. Right. It's all teamwork. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, that's what I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, thank you so much for all of this information, all of your experiences. You really have done a lot of different things and have been at the agency when there's been a lot of change. So, yeah. You've been there a long time!"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00041:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, that's what I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, thank you so much for all of this information, all of your experiences. You really have done a lot of different things and have been at the agency when there's been a lot of change. So, yeah. You've been there a long time!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But like I said, the Archives is always in the news, some good and some bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For an agency that most people don't think of, it's amazing how much of what is in the news touches the Archives, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mhm. Yeah, very much so. Okay, well hey, I'm going to go ahead and stop the recording now. Can you hang on for just one moment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00676:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 33.04823562704982, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that point we still weren’t too far in the limelight, so I think they weren’t all that worried about us. They had much bigger problems to worry about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you given the authority, based on your position, where you could make some of those decisions to allow them to have leeway one way or the other? Or was part of your responsibility to come back and get that authority from here within your program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Alan [J. Lindenmoyer, Commercial Crew and Cargo Program Manager] had the real authority, although I think he needed to still check with his boss and with the rest of the NASA community, legal and other folks, to make sure it was okay. I’d make recommendations based on whether they had met the technical content of what the milestone was, did I think they were making technical progress. I was basically making recommendations on where we should go with things. I didn’t have the ultimate decision making authority, Alan had the final sign off on those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re learning more about how the partnerships work and how traditional protocol was set aside on some things, but it sounds like on this it still went up the ladder."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a lot of cases we still followed a lot of the protocols that were done in the past. Even the proposal and procurement process, although it was streamlined. It was done a lot more efficiently than a normal procurement. They followed a lot of the same procedures and protocols and did a lot of the things that you’d do in a normal FAR-based procurement, even though it was a Space Act Agreement and they didn’t necessarily need to follow all those rules. Just to make it clean and not show even an inkling of favoritism or being unfair in the selection process. They tried to follow the typical process in a lot of respects so that it, by its nature, made sure we were fair and equitable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the process began for the development phases, how was the safety community within NASA involved? Or even the safety folks from the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration]. Can you share with us on how they were brought in, or not brought in, and how they impacted the vehicles’ development?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00676:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 40.708963110382584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did some of it. Originally our office had a position for that, but Station really wanted to be the primary point of contact for most of that, so I just worked with their folks. A lot of those processes were standing processes in place, so once I got the SpaceX folks to learn how to play into them I didn’t need to be directly involved. There were too many different things going on all at the same time for one person to be a bottleneck of information. There’s no way I could have been the liaison in the middle of all that, as well as making sure the development was going right, and on schedule, and we were getting payments to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s another nontraditional way of doing business to allow the flow and not have to go through one central point"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To actually trust people to know what they’re doing. They always knew they could call me if something didn’t seem right and they were getting into a problem that they couldn’t get out of. Then I could talk to both the NASA side, whoever was raising the concern, and understand, mediate our way through it. It wasn’t all that frequent, quite frankly. Once in a while we’d have to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If I understand correctly, going to the Station was not mandated. That was something that SpaceX could choose to do, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was the way it was originally written, although the whole point was to be able to take cargo to the Space Station, so not going to the Space Station—I guess you could not do that, but I don’t know what the point would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So far as you understood, that was always their intent, to bring cargo to the Station, from the beginning of their development phase."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00676:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.058841401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’d been hinting at it for a while I think. I wasn’t sure it was a great idea at first, seemed like the benefits to NASA weren’t all that good when they first proposed it. They did caveat it, always saying that if for some reason they were unsuccessful they would go fly another mission and try again. We were still getting what the original value was out of the original agreement. We’d still, if need be, get three flights. Turned out this got us there a little bit faster than if we had had to really need three flights.\\n\\n Like I said, we did a lot of work with them, both the Station folks and some of our CATS support folks, to help them see where some big integrated system tests might be useful. We found some problems that delayed the flight by a little bit. Some of those big system tests found real problems that would have been a mission failure if we didn’t catch them on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that’s the success of melding the new with the old."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, sometimes the old guys know what they’re talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Combining all these efforts, there was a lot on the line when they launched that flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think there were a lot of hidden agendas as well. There was a lot of questioning, “Does this whole COTS thing work?” There was a lot of politics in the political world thinking is this the smart thing to do, should we really be messing with COTS and this whole commercialization, or should we be doing it the more traditional way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re no longer on the back burner now. You were in the forefront, people were watching."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00676:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.68441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we ended up briefing both here at the Center and at Headquarters. We managed to keep it fairly streamlined and not have to brief a lot of different organizations and panels. We managed to get them all pulled together. Mark helped quite a bit influencing, based on some of the reviews that had typically gone on for Shuttles, and combining them together with briefings to the Associate Administrator. Making sure that all the parties were in the same room at the same time, we didn’t have to do it multiple times. That was really helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s helpful, yes. Did you ever feel like you didn’t have the support of upper management to continue on the journey that had begun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t necessarily have that feeling during the majority of the development phase. I had one manager at one point that went on vacation and gave me some of the wisest words I have gotten in my career. I asked him, “So what’s my authority while you’re gone?” His response was, “Proceed until apprehended.” And I’ve had people tell me over the years, “Ask for forgiveness and not permission.” That is the way you really get things done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least you had a little more flexibility in this environment than you would have before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was happy not to get too much help. They gave us the authority to try and make the right decisions. Some of the upper management are really really smart and have a lot of experience. They were able to help us, point out things that we should look for based on their experience. I never found our direct line management to be a burden, they were really helpful. It was just really good, it’s been a pleasure working with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s always good to know that you’ve got someone taking care of that side. The days leading up to that last launch, were you constantly with the SpaceX folks as part of their whole process?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00261:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 74.4021812360987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My degree is actually in electrical engineering, and I had grown up associated with the electrical power industry. My dad worked in the power industry, and I worked all my summers in powerplants. It just kind of was what I was expected to do. Then I got out. My degree is in engineering, but any expertise I have is really in operations more than—I mean, I couldn't design an electrical circuit anymore, but it was an avenue to get into operations, which is what I really liked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you able to do that when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once I got out of the Huntsville area and got here. When I came here, I went to work in the flight control division for [Eugene F.] Gene Kranz and got my first set of headphones and my first console to sit at, and I've stayed there for quite a while and loved every minute of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in Alabama, Wernher von Braun was there with the scientists. Were you aware of what they were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Sure. That was about the time of John [H.] Glenn's [Jr.] flight. I got there just a little bit before John Glenn's flight. So we knew what they were doing. I worked on several of the Army's rocket systems, surface-to-surface programs. So we knew about engines and reaction control systems and reentry bodies and all that kind of stuff, and we did all that. We just didn't have a crew on them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you when you learned about Sputnik, and did that have any influence on—or even to think about later as you entered the space program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00261:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 82.66909026233189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once I got out of the Huntsville area and got here. When I came here, I went to work in the flight control division for [Eugene F.] Gene Kranz and got my first set of headphones and my first console to sit at, and I've stayed there for quite a while and loved every minute of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in Alabama, Wernher von Braun was there with the scientists. Were you aware of what they were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Sure. That was about the time of John [H.] Glenn's [Jr.] flight. I got there just a little bit before John Glenn's flight. So we knew what they were doing. I worked on several of the Army's rocket systems, surface-to-surface programs. So we knew about engines and reaction control systems and reentry bodies and all that kind of stuff, and we did all that. We just didn't have a crew on them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you when you learned about Sputnik, and did that have any influence on—or even to think about later as you entered the space program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Alabama then, but, no, that was above my pay grade. I mean, we were doing what we were doing, and we didn't change based on that, from my point of view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your friend that was working in the Houston area and one of the reasons that you came this way. Was he also working in the flight training area or the flight controller area?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00261:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 91.85454473592432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Sure. That was about the time of John [H.] Glenn's [Jr.] flight. I got there just a little bit before John Glenn's flight. So we knew what they were doing. I worked on several of the Army's rocket systems, surface-to-surface programs. So we knew about engines and reaction control systems and reentry bodies and all that kind of stuff, and we did all that. We just didn't have a crew on them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you when you learned about Sputnik, and did that have any influence on—or even to think about later as you entered the space program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Alabama then, but, no, that was above my pay grade. I mean, we were doing what we were doing, and we didn't change based on that, from my point of view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your friend that was working in the Houston area and one of the reasons that you came this way. Was he also working in the flight training area or the flight controller area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in recovery operations, naval recovery operations division."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had somewhat in common, not something totally different."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00261:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 37, "return_to_go": 102.06060526213813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Alabama then, but, no, that was above my pay grade. I mean, we were doing what we were doing, and we didn't change based on that, from my point of view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your friend that was working in the Houston area and one of the reasons that you came this way. Was he also working in the flight training area or the flight controller area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in recovery operations, naval recovery operations division."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had somewhat in common, not something totally different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell us about those first days when you came to Houston and how you got that headset and some of the first things that you did starting to work for NASA."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00261:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 13.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I pretty well missed the sixties. I mean, I would see it on the news or something, but the hippie generation, I mean, I know a lot of music from the fifties, but you play tunes from the sixties and I don't recognize most of them. I don't recognize most of the movies or the bands or the popular events. I mean, what went on in Vietnam I knew about and some of the stuff that went on on college campuses. I know H. Rap Brown and some of those major events, but kind of the general cultural thing that went on in the sixties, I pretty well missed it, certainly the last half of the sixties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I guess your family life was a little contained to the few hours that you had off as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. For a number of people, that was a pretty major strain on the families. Have you talked to Kranz? He used to do these family pep talks. He'd get the auditorium over there, and you had to bring your wife in and you had to bring the kids, and then Gene would get up there and talk about the program and the sacrifices that were being made and how they were all part of the team and the patriotic thing. I mean, you know how Gene is. All these wives were sitting there with this glassy look on their face, and 90 percent of them walked out and said, \"What the hell is he talking about?\" [Laughter] But he felt he had to do them, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I'm glad you shared that with us. No, he didn't mention that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they were classic Kranz, [General] Patton's speech up there. I mean, you'd see the flag back there, and you could see Gene in his little shiny helmet. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes, as a sim sup, did you have to talk with your folks to kind of work them through a little bit as some of the days got long and kind of give them pep talks?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 22.478806570029874, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess, uh, the travel bug somehow infected me when I was in college, and I guess I came from a sort of provincial New York background, if you can describe it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I had a fraternity brother who had been to Morocco, and he told me about his adventures. And that sort of piqued my curiosity. And then when I went to graduate school at Georgetown, I had a roommate who had gone abroad to Egypt with a group called the Experiment in International Living, and he would wax eloquent about his experiences in Egypt. So that kind of reinforced my interest. So I actually then applied to participate in the Experiment in International Living. And so I went there for the summer of 1965. And the way that program works is you spend one month living with a family and then all the Americans in the group, and we were about 10 to 12, we were all paired with Moroccan families.\n\nAnd then we would spend the second month traveling around the country with our Moroccan brothers and sisters. So actually, to this day, we are still close with the family. So now how did I actually get interested in the Peace Corps? I guess everybody was talking about the Peace Corps, and it just seemed like a wonderful thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I just kind of kind of felt a calling to go. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you doing about the time that you joined Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.08756285558875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I had a fraternity brother who had been to Morocco, and he told me about his adventures. And that sort of piqued my curiosity. And then when I went to graduate school at Georgetown, I had a roommate who had gone abroad to Egypt with a group called the Experiment in International Living, and he would wax eloquent about his experiences in Egypt. So that kind of reinforced my interest. So I actually then applied to participate in the Experiment in International Living. And so I went there for the summer of 1965. And the way that program works is you spend one month living with a family and then all the Americans in the group, and we were about 10 to 12, we were all paired with Moroccan families.\n\nAnd then we would spend the second month traveling around the country with our Moroccan brothers and sisters. So actually, to this day, we are still close with the family. So now how did I actually get interested in the Peace Corps? I guess everybody was talking about the Peace Corps, and it just seemed like a wonderful thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I just kind of kind of felt a calling to go. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you doing about the time that you joined Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teaching high school. I started teaching high school in '65, and I taught at a boys Catholic high school for two years. And then the next two years I went to the public schools and I went to Midwood High School in Brooklyn, where I met my wonderful wife who was on the faculty there. So I guess we both had the same inclinations, not only to get married but also to do something adventurous. So we got married in February of '69, and we joined the Peace Corps shortly thereafter and went abroad in, I guess it was June of '69."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the application process like then? It sounds like it wasn't very long between application and acceptance and training."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.763958728431945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I just kind of kind of felt a calling to go. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you doing about the time that you joined Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teaching high school. I started teaching high school in '65, and I taught at a boys Catholic high school for two years. And then the next two years I went to the public schools and I went to Midwood High School in Brooklyn, where I met my wonderful wife who was on the faculty there. So I guess we both had the same inclinations, not only to get married but also to do something adventurous. So we got married in February of '69, and we joined the Peace Corps shortly thereafter and went abroad in, I guess it was June of '69."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the application process like then? It sounds like it wasn't very long between application and acceptance and training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't remember the exact sequence, but I know I had applied earlier. And I had gotten assigned to go to Colombia and it involved riding horses in the boondocks of Colombia. And that did not appeal to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A New York boy."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.293287476035491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teaching high school. I started teaching high school in '65, and I taught at a boys Catholic high school for two years. And then the next two years I went to the public schools and I went to Midwood High School in Brooklyn, where I met my wonderful wife who was on the faculty there. So I guess we both had the same inclinations, not only to get married but also to do something adventurous. So we got married in February of '69, and we joined the Peace Corps shortly thereafter and went abroad in, I guess it was June of '69."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the application process like then? It sounds like it wasn't very long between application and acceptance and training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't remember the exact sequence, but I know I had applied earlier. And I had gotten assigned to go to Colombia and it involved riding horses in the boondocks of Colombia. And that did not appeal to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A New York boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a bit, a bit much. So after Gloria and I got married, we both, I guess, had a preference for the Middle East. But the initial assignment was to Korea. And so there again, we, I don't want to say reject, but we asked if there was the possibility of going to the Middle East. And then when they said Iran, we jumped at the opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you guys got married, and a couple of months later, you entered training."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.992541640039434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't remember the exact sequence, but I know I had applied earlier. And I had gotten assigned to go to Colombia and it involved riding horses in the boondocks of Colombia. And that did not appeal to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A New York boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a bit, a bit much. So after Gloria and I got married, we both, I guess, had a preference for the Middle East. But the initial assignment was to Korea. And so there again, we, I don't want to say reject, but we asked if there was the possibility of going to the Middle East. And then when they said Iran, we jumped at the opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you guys got married, and a couple of months later, you entered training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was training like for you? Where did you do it? What was it like? What was it like as a married couple?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.04017486424621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was training like for you? Where did you do it? What was it like? What was it like as a married couple?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say because we were in a married couples group, we certainly didn't feel out of place in any way. I mean, there were some single folks training with us, but I would say most of the people in the group were married couples. We were in an idyllic environment in Brattleboro, Vermont. It was so beautiful. And ironically, we were being trained at the headquarters of the Experiment in International Living, which had a contract with the Peace Corps to do Peace Corps training. So I was returning to the Experiment in a different way. So we, you know, we had a lot of language training, which I enjoyed immensely. Um. They did some pretty heavy-handed psychological stuff. You know, in those days, T groups were very popular."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't really like that very much. You know, you were supposed to kind of bare your inner soul and stuff like that. So some of those sessions were a little bit annoying, I guess I would say. But apart from that, I mean, we made, you know, we liked the people in our group. We liked the teachers. In fact, we're still friends with one of the teachers. So I would say it was a positive experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And then from Brattleboro, you went to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.600194293606899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say because we were in a married couples group, we certainly didn't feel out of place in any way. I mean, there were some single folks training with us, but I would say most of the people in the group were married couples. We were in an idyllic environment in Brattleboro, Vermont. It was so beautiful. And ironically, we were being trained at the headquarters of the Experiment in International Living, which had a contract with the Peace Corps to do Peace Corps training. So I was returning to the Experiment in a different way. So we, you know, we had a lot of language training, which I enjoyed immensely. Um. They did some pretty heavy-handed psychological stuff. You know, in those days, T groups were very popular."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't really like that very much. You know, you were supposed to kind of bare your inner soul and stuff like that. So some of those sessions were a little bit annoying, I guess I would say. But apart from that, I mean, we made, you know, we liked the people in our group. We liked the teachers. In fact, we're still friends with one of the teachers. So I would say it was a positive experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And then from Brattleboro, you went to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we went home briefly and then maybe we had a week or so to prepare to leave. And then we went to Philadelphia and left from Philadelphia. Everybody reassembled in Philadelphia for departure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you decide what to take?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 15.926165794576418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we went home briefly and then maybe we had a week or so to prepare to leave. And then we went to Philadelphia and left from Philadelphia. Everybody reassembled in Philadelphia for departure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you decide what to take?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if I really remember the details. There was one item that was pretty crucial, and that was our shortwave radio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was kind of our lifeline to the outside world where we were. In particular, we couldn't get Voice of America, but we did get BBC. And every night we would listen to the English language service of BBC. Um. But apart from that, I do not remember the details. I don't remember it to be a big deal. I'm sure it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like landing in Iran?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.695739771751575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if I really remember the details. There was one item that was pretty crucial, and that was our shortwave radio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was kind of our lifeline to the outside world where we were. In particular, we couldn't get Voice of America, but we did get BBC. And every night we would listen to the English language service of BBC. Um. But apart from that, I do not remember the details. I don't remember it to be a big deal. I'm sure it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like landing in Iran?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we, we had to go through Paris, I believe, and then Rome. And then Beirut and then finally Tehran. We arrived in Tehran at night. And the most vivid experience that first morning. They put us up in a hotel on one of the main squares in central Tehran. And so I guess we might have gotten in about midnight. And so after waking up in the morning, we looked out the window and we said, where are we? It looks like we're in a nunnery here. All of these nuns roaming around the street.\n\nIt just took a while for the reality of veiled women to actually set, you know, set in. You know, we just didn't expect that everyone would be veiled and they would be veiled in black. And, you know, I, I went to eight years of grammar school with nuns. That was my experience with women in black. But Gloria had the exact same reaction. Where are we here? It just seems like we're in a, you know, some sort of Catholic encampment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't stay long in Iran, in Tehran?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.43971085750175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was kind of our lifeline to the outside world where we were. In particular, we couldn't get Voice of America, but we did get BBC. And every night we would listen to the English language service of BBC. Um. But apart from that, I do not remember the details. I don't remember it to be a big deal. I'm sure it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like landing in Iran?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we, we had to go through Paris, I believe, and then Rome. And then Beirut and then finally Tehran. We arrived in Tehran at night. And the most vivid experience that first morning. They put us up in a hotel on one of the main squares in central Tehran. And so I guess we might have gotten in about midnight. And so after waking up in the morning, we looked out the window and we said, where are we? It looks like we're in a nunnery here. All of these nuns roaming around the street.\n\nIt just took a while for the reality of veiled women to actually set, you know, set in. You know, we just didn't expect that everyone would be veiled and they would be veiled in black. And, you know, I, I went to eight years of grammar school with nuns. That was my experience with women in black. But Gloria had the exact same reaction. Where are we here? It just seems like we're in a, you know, some sort of Catholic encampment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't stay long in Iran, in Tehran?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't. They took us to this agricultural school on the outskirts of Iran and, uh, we went there for, I guess, initial in-country training. I'm guessing that we were there, I don't know, it was about a week, two weeks. I'm not sure exactly how long you were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed in the dorms at that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.950260317903395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't. They took us to this agricultural school on the outskirts of Iran and, uh, we went there for, I guess, initial in-country training. I'm guessing that we were there, I don't know, it was about a week, two weeks. I'm not sure exactly how long you were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed in the dorms at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like, yes, we stayed in dorms. One thing that was, created a lasting impression for me was the bats that encircled this place. I mean, if you went out in the evening to go for a stroll, the bats would like be dive bombing on your head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, ow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's harmless but, you know, a little disconcerting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you feel like your training was good training? I'm assuming you had Farsi there and probably some, um, Teaching English as a Second Language training. How did you, what did you think about the training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.83456838576954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's called the aural-oral method of teaching language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm not sure that method was kind of well suited to Iranian students who, at that time and maybe still to this day, you know, they, they learn by rote memory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And this is kind of challenging you to figure things out on your own. You know, they weren't actually prepared to do that, so it might have been better, but that was all the vogue in those days. So I can't fault the Peace Corps for teaching that methodology because that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The methodology of the day. Yeah. Did you make friends with the other married couples? Did you guys hang out and talk a lot?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3121651382298207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah. I would say we were quite friendly with, uh, especially couples that came from the same background as we did, so that there was one other couple from New York City that we were close with. Another couple from San Francisco. And so. But, you know, of course you're scattered around the country. You don't have all that many opportunities to interact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The nearest volunteers among the couples. Well, no, I take that, I'm sorry. I was going to say there was a couple close to us. Now by close I'm saying 3 hours away. That was close. But we didn't interact with them very much because I believe they came from sort of a rural Midwestern background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there was another couple that were maybe 8 hours away and we would go to their site and they would come to us and we seemed to have more in common with them. There was another single volunteer who lived in the next town over, which would be an hour and a half ride, and we got to see him every so often. He would come to visit us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were all these on busses? Is that how you traveled back and forth?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.680183486922023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The nearest volunteers among the couples. Well, no, I take that, I'm sorry. I was going to say there was a couple close to us. Now by close I'm saying 3 hours away. That was close. But we didn't interact with them very much because I believe they came from sort of a rural Midwestern background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there was another couple that were maybe 8 hours away and we would go to their site and they would come to us and we seemed to have more in common with them. There was another single volunteer who lived in the next town over, which would be an hour and a half ride, and we got to see him every so often. He would come to visit us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were all these on busses? Is that how you traveled back and forth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always by bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You didn't have any scooters or bikes or anything that you used in country?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.609180745194365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they brought the bikes for us. The people that we would go with would bring the bikes. Because we didn't have our own bikes and that was a big deal. Not so much for me, but for Gloria, because I don't think there was any other woman in town who ever went on a bicycle in the town. Of course, it would be unheard of today, but, well, maybe not so. Maybe not so much. You probably do find women wearing hijab who go out on a bicycle now in modern Tehran. But in those days it was rare, if not never. You'd never see something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And of course, Gloria would always dress modestly when we were on one of these bike excursions. But we did take bike rides outside of town, which was a favorite thing that people would do. They would go outside and they would. The way Iran is, it's, the whole society is walled in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So your house would generally have a wall around it for privacy. And if you owned land outside of town, that land which would have a water source inside, would also be enclosed in a wall. And so if you took your family to that land for a picnic, the woman would be able to take off their veils and enjoy themselves in this parcel of land that was rural. They were growing things, whatever they were growing, and there was always a water source. And people would put their rugs down next to the stream and that's where they would have their picnics. So we did that quite often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, did you go with an Iranian couple then? Were they the ones that brought the bikes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.924914500239956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So your house would generally have a wall around it for privacy. And if you owned land outside of town, that land which would have a water source inside, would also be enclosed in a wall. And so if you took your family to that land for a picnic, the woman would be able to take off their veils and enjoy themselves in this parcel of land that was rural. They were growing things, whatever they were growing, and there was always a water source. And people would put their rugs down next to the stream and that's where they would have their picnics. So we did that quite often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, did you go with an Iranian couple then? Were they the ones that brought the bikes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Either our neighbors, we often went with our neighbors who lived down the kucheh, the alleyway. Or I would go with my students. Now, by my students I'm talking about not my students in the, in the boys high school, but students who wanted to really perfect their English and would come to me for private lessons. So anyone who wanted to really have an intensive English language learning experience could enroll in this class in my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I would say I had about ten students. I had high school students for one group and adults for another, and these people would come to my house for lessons. So it was those people in those private classes that would arrange these little excursions into the countryside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you got to go inside some of the walled garden areas?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.6943494447110625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Either our neighbors, we often went with our neighbors who lived down the kucheh, the alleyway. Or I would go with my students. Now, by my students I'm talking about not my students in the, in the boys high school, but students who wanted to really perfect their English and would come to me for private lessons. So anyone who wanted to really have an intensive English language learning experience could enroll in this class in my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I would say I had about ten students. I had high school students for one group and adults for another, and these people would come to my house for lessons. So it was those people in those private classes that would arrange these little excursions into the countryside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you got to go inside some of the walled garden areas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Out there, some of that growing areas. Yeah. Nice."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.54927716079007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I would say I had about ten students. I had high school students for one group and adults for another, and these people would come to my house for lessons. So it was those people in those private classes that would arrange these little excursions into the countryside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you got to go inside some of the walled garden areas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Out there, some of that growing areas. Yeah. Nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nice. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did, how did your site get chosen?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.850959457765518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nice. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did, how did your site get chosen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe we were the second volunteers who were assigned to Fassa [also spelled Fasa]. There was a single volunteer who was there before us. Why was Fassa chosen as a Peace Corps site? I have no idea. I don't know. I mean, it is, it was at the time a rather large town. The population was 20,000."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, you know, like I guess it was there were no native English speakers in that town. So I guess it was considered ideal to have us as a resource in this particular town. But nobody ever explained to me how Fassa got on the list of Peace Corps sites, and I can't exactly answer the question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your integration into Fassa like? What were some of the challenges? What, what surprised you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.001184515759899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, you know, like I guess it was there were no native English speakers in that town. So I guess it was considered ideal to have us as a resource in this particular town. But nobody ever explained to me how Fassa got on the list of Peace Corps sites, and I can't exactly answer the question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your integration into Fassa like? What were some of the challenges? What, what surprised you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was rough, I would say, the first few months. We, when we first arrived, we stayed in a local hotel, which was, as I remember it, a rather dingy place. And you had absolutely no privacy. So you were in a room and there were windows all around and other people staying there. So it was a little really seedy place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somehow we got transferred to the local military club. And so I don't think we spent more than one night in that hotel and we were moved to this. It was a local army base in town, very small, but there was a club facility that had accommodations for overnight guests. And so we stayed there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who moved you there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.389023549526493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then, you know, with every traditional Iranian home, the kitchen and the bathroom is separated from the living quarters. So there was another structure behind the garden with the kitchen and the shower and the bathroom. So it was, it was a very nice place, fairly new construction. It had a hot water heater."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Luxury."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but of course we had no refrigerator. And I mean, there were some creature comforts that we didn't have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the house itself was spacious. More than enough room for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. What did you cook on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7655817216961034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but of course we had no refrigerator. And I mean, there were some creature comforts that we didn't have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the house itself was spacious. More than enough room for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. What did you cook on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had this kitchen in the back and there was a sink in the kitchen, and we had this, the two burners, and you had to bring in, what are those cylinders called?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, like propane cylinders?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.183979690773448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the house itself was spacious. More than enough room for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. What did you cook on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had this kitchen in the back and there was a sink in the kitchen, and we had this, the two burners, and you had to bring in, what are those cylinders called?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, like propane cylinders?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Propane cylinders. And, you know, we would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of like a camp stove."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.5377552119704974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had this kitchen in the back and there was a sink in the kitchen, and we had this, the two burners, and you had to bring in, what are those cylinders called?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, like propane cylinders?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Propane cylinders. And, you know, we would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of like a camp stove."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we would refill that every once in a while. I mean, somebody probably came around and did that, you know, they would knock on the door. Do you need new propane? And then we needed oil, as I recall now, for the hot water heater, which only worked for the shower, not for any water sources anywhere else in the house. So we had sinks on the, a sink on the first floor. Was there a sink on the second floor? Maybe a sink on the second floor. But that was all cold water. If you wanted hot water, you had to turn on the hot water heater, which we did rarely, because then you used up your oil supply and that was rather costly. But it's a warm climate and the water heater was on the roof, so it usually was warm enough to take a shower except in the middle of winter. But most times of the year you didn't really need to turn it on to take a shower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. What was the hardest thing about integrating?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.013674379450404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was one thing. And then the other thing I would say that is. The way students, the way the schools operated. And, you know, I'm more interested in. You know, I believe that you learn when you impose some discipline on children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I also believe that you should get a grade that you deserve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so when you're thrown into a situation where everybody's cheating and nobody gives a damn, including the teachers, it's very frustrating. So. That was my big thing, to whip these kids into shape and to make sure that they weren't cheating and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how successful were you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5111635108221373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, the other teachers would remark how disciplined my class was. You know, like if they had, say, a quarterly exam or something like that, the students would go to the auditorium. I would make sure all the desks were spaced out so they couldn't copy from one another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would make sure they were walking in an orderly line. Now, I'm telling you here, this is after a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't just wave a magic wand and get these kids to do that. In the beginning, it was awful. I mean, especially with the methodology that we were taught, you know. So like the first thing, I don't know if I already told you this, but the first thing we did in teaching English. We were told to use songs as a learning technique. So to have someone like myself stand in front of the classroom and start singing, row, row, row, your boat. This was hilarious to these students and it was undignified behavior for a teacher to be singing a song in front of class. So I, you know, just lost the class with that. So it took a while to recover from all of that, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many students did you have?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.901292789802375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would make sure they were walking in an orderly line. Now, I'm telling you here, this is after a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't just wave a magic wand and get these kids to do that. In the beginning, it was awful. I mean, especially with the methodology that we were taught, you know. So like the first thing, I don't know if I already told you this, but the first thing we did in teaching English. We were told to use songs as a learning technique. So to have someone like myself stand in front of the classroom and start singing, row, row, row, your boat. This was hilarious to these students and it was undignified behavior for a teacher to be singing a song in front of class. So I, you know, just lost the class with that. So it took a while to recover from all of that, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many students did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had classes of, I would say roughly 60 to 70 students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it universal education?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.81641085160787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had classes of, I would say roughly 60 to 70 students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it universal education?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mean, one thing that was really interesting about an Iranian classroom is that you had kids from the elite and kids from the villages all together in the same place. But then the social structure was reflected in the classroom. So that the elite children would sit in the front and the kids from the villages would be in the back. And sometimes the elite kids, because they felt some sympathy for the poorer children, would give them help, like during an exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So here you had the American concept of how to manage a school with the Iranian concept of, well, these kids need a break and I need to help them and what's so wrong about doing that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Mm hmm."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.351567612897633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mean, one thing that was really interesting about an Iranian classroom is that you had kids from the elite and kids from the villages all together in the same place. But then the social structure was reflected in the classroom. So that the elite children would sit in the front and the kids from the villages would be in the back. And sometimes the elite kids, because they felt some sympathy for the poorer children, would give them help, like during an exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So here you had the American concept of how to manage a school with the Iranian concept of, well, these kids need a break and I need to help them and what's so wrong about doing that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's like a different moral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, I know."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.946186236552926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So here you had the American concept of how to manage a school with the Iranian concept of, well, these kids need a break and I need to help them and what's so wrong about doing that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's like a different moral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, I know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I forgot, what was the question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What we were just talking about, I had asked you if education was universal in Iran at that point, if everybody could go to school?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.384651373947696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's like a different moral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, I know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I forgot, what was the question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What we were just talking about, I had asked you if education was universal in Iran at that point, if everybody could go to school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You know, the Shah was really into universal education. He introduced a program called the White Revolution, and universal literacy was very much part of that. So I think that's probably why the schools were so overcrowded, because he wanted everyone to get a basic education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was it like for you teaching such big classes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.15874313968556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I remember feeling frustrated that I, my command of the language wasn't good enough to kind of engage in real conversations with them. I mean, if I stopped somebody and then we started talking one on one. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I usually understood. But when they're talking among themselves, I would lose maybe half the conversation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was a little frustrating. I think I got the most satisfaction out of the private classes, though, because these were the people who were the most motivated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were they all self-selected?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.131900135077197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was really quite something to be feted by these kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And everybody wanted to invite us to their house and have us over for tea and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have warmed your heart after all those years and everything that had happened in the interim."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.8132223723079965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And everybody wanted to invite us to their house and have us over for tea and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have warmed your heart after all those years and everything that had happened in the interim."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But of course, the kids that I was closest to were the ones in this special class. So we made a point of getting together with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they using their English?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.411385644824687, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But of course, the kids that I was closest to were the ones in this special class. So we made a point of getting together with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they using their English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, um, as a matter of fact, I think some of them, in particular in my wife's class, did become English teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And most of those young people were quite successful and, uh, I can't say that they're using English in their daily work life, but their command of the language is good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good, good. Nice to hear. Nice to hear. What was your biggest challenge during these two years in Iran?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.213929005900345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They realized that we weren't brother and sister, we were husband and wife, and that, you know, the woman changes her name to the man's name generally in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, they didn't quite understand why we both had the same last name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the first Christmas, we got to meet a number of people and they realized how homesick we were and they realized how important Christmas was to us. And I guess Gloria might have mentioned that to some of the teachers at school. And I believe one of the teachers at school was either the governor's wife or a friend of the governor's wife. I don't know exactly how it came about. But the governor saw to it that we would have a Christmas tree by cutting down one of the trees in the public garden. So we had more evergreen than we could ever use. Not exactly a tree, but huge branches of evergreen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in the desert."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.793254451000384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, they didn't quite understand why we both had the same last name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the first Christmas, we got to meet a number of people and they realized how homesick we were and they realized how important Christmas was to us. And I guess Gloria might have mentioned that to some of the teachers at school. And I believe one of the teachers at school was either the governor's wife or a friend of the governor's wife. I don't know exactly how it came about. But the governor saw to it that we would have a Christmas tree by cutting down one of the trees in the public garden. So we had more evergreen than we could ever use. Not exactly a tree, but huge branches of evergreen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in the desert."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in the desert. And we invited folks over and for a little party. And I had kind of a birthday, my wife's birthday is around Christmas, so I had a little party for her. And that's when things really, things started to improve at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family think about you going?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.71228319753139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, ridiculous. They had, no, nobody thought it was a good idea. I mean, I remember, um. I was a little bit of a rebel in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was one uncle that I had, my Uncle Joe, who I looked up to and admired. And I thought of, I come from a very big extended family, lots of aunts and uncles. And my father knew that I kind of looked up to my Uncle Joe. So somehow he commissioned him to come over to the house to try to dissuade me from doing this. And I was kind of surprised that my Uncle Joe was turning on me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. No, it was a very unusual thing for some, people of our background to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And especially newly married and you're taking your wife over there."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.4580924417015435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was one uncle that I had, my Uncle Joe, who I looked up to and admired. And I thought of, I come from a very big extended family, lots of aunts and uncles. And my father knew that I kind of looked up to my Uncle Joe. So somehow he commissioned him to come over to the house to try to dissuade me from doing this. And I was kind of surprised that my Uncle Joe was turning on me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. No, it was a very unusual thing for some, people of our background to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And especially newly married and you're taking your wife over there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did gender roles impact you over there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.546748259358127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, there were also Iranian, this is a small conservative town, so you would find more women not wearing the veil in a place like Tehran than you would in Fassa. But even in Fassa, I would say, I'm guessing here, maybe out of a population of 20,000, there might have been 25 women who didn't wear the veil in the street. So the fact that Gloria was on the street, dressed conservatively, always covering her in her arms. It wasn't something that startled people. What startled them was that this was a Western woman, not so much that she was a woman without a veil. Uh, but there were certain times of the year when you had to be very careful and these would be the times of the religious, certain religious observances.\n\nAnd in Iran, sometimes the people were kind of whipped up into a frenzy over certain events in Shia history. And what they would do is they would recreate those events through poetry and song. And people would start crying, remembering what happened to the Shia leaders of the past, the death of Hossein, and all of that. I don't know if you know anything about that. So when those events were going on, you had to be very careful and make sure you didn't go anywhere near where those festivities were taking place actually out on the street. You'd have somebody who was, you know, kind of chanting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then also people whipping themselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was a little scary. I mean, not, not that we it forced us to stay indoors. But you thought twice about how you would get from point A to point B and you didn't want to go anywhere near the mosque in those times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you guys celebrate Ramadan with others? Did you go to ikbar any time? Did you, what was your interaction with that part of the culture in Fassa?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.563440684990571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a great question. So I told you that I had these private classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I'm remembering now that not only, I had three classes. I had a class for the young kids, a class for the high school students, and a class for adults. And in the high school student class, there were some very devout Muslims. And I don't know if you know this, but in Islam, you can earn a special place in heaven if you can convert someone to Islam. So I constantly had people trying to convert me to Islam. They would give me copies of books to read in English. So that was a little bit annoying because you knew that there were some people that were kind of cultivating a friendship with me. But they had an ulterior motive, you know?\n\nNow, on the subject of Ramadan, I guess it intrigued me a little bit. And so I did observe the Ramadan fast one year. I don't remember what year it was, but I observed it for a period of three days just to have the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I mean, you probably have to get up early in the morning before sunrise, and you have enough to, try to have enough food to sustain you to the end of the day. But I just wanted to know what it was like. Not, not that I was seriously contemplating becoming a Muslim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Mm hmm."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9593785388784126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I'm remembering now that not only, I had three classes. I had a class for the young kids, a class for the high school students, and a class for adults. And in the high school student class, there were some very devout Muslims. And I don't know if you know this, but in Islam, you can earn a special place in heaven if you can convert someone to Islam. So I constantly had people trying to convert me to Islam. They would give me copies of books to read in English. So that was a little bit annoying because you knew that there were some people that were kind of cultivating a friendship with me. But they had an ulterior motive, you know?\n\nNow, on the subject of Ramadan, I guess it intrigued me a little bit. And so I did observe the Ramadan fast one year. I don't remember what year it was, but I observed it for a period of three days just to have the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I mean, you probably have to get up early in the morning before sunrise, and you have enough to, try to have enough food to sustain you to the end of the day. But I just wanted to know what it was like. Not, not that I was seriously contemplating becoming a Muslim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, they talk about the health effects of the, of the fast and how it's good for your body to do that. So I just wanted to see what kind of effects it would have on me. But three days was enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Eid, did you, were you there with the slaughtering of the sheep or anything like that? Any of the post-Ramadan or the other Eid?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4312462810403455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We saw sheep being slaughtered all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very common for somebody to have a sheep just right out in the kucheh and just be cutting up a sheep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know why they did that, but they did it. So. But I don't remember ritual slaughter or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just picturing two young kids from Brooklyn walking out in the kucheh."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.034718090044828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very common for somebody to have a sheep just right out in the kucheh and just be cutting up a sheep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know why they did that, but they did it. So. But I don't remember ritual slaughter or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just picturing two young kids from Brooklyn walking out in the kucheh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, one of the grossest things was to go to the meat market, because they don't quite understand that there are different cuts of meat. So the meat market would be the carcass of some animal just hanging from a hook. And if you wanted meat, wherever they were in the carcass, that's where you would get your meat. And it might have not been the healthiest of cows or whatever it is. You know, you couldn't really cook the meat the way we cook the meat. You needed a, you need a pressure cooker. Nobody ever told us that. So we didn't, that wasn't covered in Peace Corps training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't in your trunk."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.705242322272031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know why they did that, but they did it. So. But I don't remember ritual slaughter or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just picturing two young kids from Brooklyn walking out in the kucheh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, one of the grossest things was to go to the meat market, because they don't quite understand that there are different cuts of meat. So the meat market would be the carcass of some animal just hanging from a hook. And if you wanted meat, wherever they were in the carcass, that's where you would get your meat. And it might have not been the healthiest of cows or whatever it is. You know, you couldn't really cook the meat the way we cook the meat. You needed a, you need a pressure cooker. Nobody ever told us that. So we didn't, that wasn't covered in Peace Corps training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't in your trunk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to arrange to get a pressure cooker to do anything with the meat there. Um. So. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How was the food?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.166965829965471, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to arrange to get a pressure cooker to do anything with the meat there. Um. So. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How was the food?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We grew to love the food. I mean, it took a while. Like anything else, you have to get accustomed to it. Especially the flavor of the cooking oil, which I guess is sheep's oil? Something like that. It's not in the oil that we use in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But after a while, we loved Iranian food. If we have an opportunity to do Iranian, we do it. And in fact, my wife cooks Iranian sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cool. Cool, cool. What was it like for you as the end of your time came? Did you guys think about extending it all? Was there even that opportunity? What did it feel like when the end came for your time in Fassa?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.288318594673786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Believe it or not. And when that bus pulled away from that town. Because in those days, you know, chances are you're on the other side of the world, you're never going to get back to Iran. So it's a form of death to leave a place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And by that time, we were, you know, I didn't want to say members of the community, but we were accepted in the town and we had lots of good friends there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And just to see all these people outside the bus saying goodbye. I mean, I cried all the way to, we had to go to Shiraz and then get back to Tehran. But all that bus ride was the worst bus ride of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then what was it like when you came home?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.502238370178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I remember when we got to Minnesota, I mentioned the taroff and all of that, the formal courtesy. A part of taroff is anytime you meet someone, even if you saw them 2 hours ago, you meet him again, you shake hands. And so when I arrived in Minnesota, I remember offering my hand like a million times to people, and it was kind of strange. This guy just wanted to shake hands all the time. I mean, little stupid things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or, you know, being deferential to people and making sure that they go through the door first. They didn't know what was going on in my head. But kind of interesting that most people, maybe it's because of our background and the people we knew, where we came from, but not too many people were really interested in what the experience was like. You could have a 15 minute conversation and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was a little bit disappointing, but I don't remember it bothering me that much. It was just surprising that we had gone through this experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had all this stuff."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.496590580466666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was a little bit disappointing, but I don't remember it bothering me that much. It was just surprising that we had gone through this experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had all this stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, most people were really didn't care or didn't know. They probably couldn't appreciate what it was like to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Experience culture shock, make the adaptation, and then come back and experience reverse cultural shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Mm hmm."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 12.958753803045266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Experience culture shock, make the adaptation, and then come back and experience reverse cultural shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we did indeed experience reverse culture shock. A certain amount of revulsion to life in the United States compared to, you know, the simple life in rural Iran. And you get used to that, and you see how kind of wholesome it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, people work hard, but they also know how to enjoy themselves. And it's, it's a lifestyle that I miss actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Was there any time when you were in Iran that you felt like you guys were in danger or that your health was threatened? Anything like that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.567043985580222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just too many people. Just, you know, Gloria knew that she had been touched. So it was very frustrating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, you feel like it's your obligation, especially traditional male thinking, it's your obligation to protect your wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the way we generally did that, if we were in a crowded city street, is instead of Gloria walking behind me, which is what normally happens in Iran. The man walks ahead of the woman. I would walk behind Gloria so I could protect her from the rear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your contact with Peace Corps once you were settled in Fassa? There were no telephones, there wasn't any direct contact, was there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.5189377617558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, you feel like it's your obligation, especially traditional male thinking, it's your obligation to protect your wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the way we generally did that, if we were in a crowded city street, is instead of Gloria walking behind me, which is what normally happens in Iran. The man walks ahead of the woman. I would walk behind Gloria so I could protect her from the rear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your contact with Peace Corps once you were settled in Fassa? There were no telephones, there wasn't any direct contact, was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, our Peace Corps director did travel around the country visiting the various sites, and he came to Fassa at least once. He might have come twice, I don't remember exactly. And then, of course, we were called back to Tehran all the time for, you know, maybe it was an inoculation or a physical or just some sort of gathering. But I would say over the course of two years, maybe we went to Tehran I'd say ten times something like that. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long a trip was that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.418441681180001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, our Peace Corps director did travel around the country visiting the various sites, and he came to Fassa at least once. He might have come twice, I don't remember exactly. And then, of course, we were called back to Tehran all the time for, you know, maybe it was an inoculation or a physical or just some sort of gathering. But I would say over the course of two years, maybe we went to Tehran I'd say ten times something like that. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long a trip was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, for us it was a long trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like all by bus. So it was like 3 hours to get to Shiraz. And then from Shiraz to Tehran, I want to say 13 hours. Maybe 13, 14 hours on a bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, so that was a trek."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.353824090200002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, for us it was a long trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like all by bus. So it was like 3 hours to get to Shiraz. And then from Shiraz to Tehran, I want to say 13 hours. Maybe 13, 14 hours on a bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, so that was a trek."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a trek."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.99237542, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a trek."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was nice to go to Tehran because, you know, we got to see other volunteers who were there. So it was kind of a reunion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got to go to the U.S. embassy and have pancakes or whatever you could get at the U.S. embassy, hamburgers, you know, that kind of stuff. We stayed at this hotel that was a favorite haunt for all the Peace Corps volunteers called the Hotel Polaris. And it was really a dive. That's where we stayed. We once discovered that all or some of the rooms had peak holes. That was towards the end when we realized that there were peep holes in the rooms.\n\nUm, but Tehran had like an assortment of restaurants. So, like, if you wanted French food, there was a French restaurant. There was an Italian restaurant. So you could get your, if you missed that, you had an opportunity. There was a Hungarian place I remember that was very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was alcohol consumption there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1222000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So generally what we would do is we would smuggle in bottles of wine in our luggage every time we went to Shiraz. So in Shiraz we were able to go to a, it was a store either owned by Jewish people or by Armenians. There's quite a large Armenian community in Tehran, in Iran. And Shiraz had this wonderful wine which was called Hazaroyek 1001, was the brand name. And, uh, the grape growers in Fars province. By the way, this is a little bit of an aside. All of them, I understand, left Iran after the revolution and do you know where they established themselves?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Australia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yeah. They went to Australia and they began cultivate, I'm trying to remember what's the kind of wine that's famous for?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shiraz."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is Shiraz one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, there's a couple of different names of it. One's Shiraz. The other one is."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yeah. They went to Australia and they began cultivate, I'm trying to remember what's the kind of wine that's famous for?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shiraz."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is Shiraz one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, there's a couple of different names of it. One's Shiraz. The other one is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's another name that I'm not remembering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, it's \"sha\" something."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is Shiraz one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, there's a couple of different names of it. One's Shiraz. The other one is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's another name that I'm not remembering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, it's \"sha\" something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's how I knew it was from Australia, because that's where that came up from."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's another name that I'm not remembering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, it's \"sha\" something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's how I knew it was from Australia, because that's where that came up from."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The production of these grapes was transferred from Iran. But that's the wine that we would get from Shiraz and bring back. We usually would bring back maybe two bottles, which would last us like two months or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Interesting. Well, is there anything else you'd like to say about either Peace Corps or your experience in Iran or what it's meant in your life?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00081:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I have pretty much devoted myself to immigrant causes. I had a, I headed up a social service agency that helped immigrants resettle in the United States, and I'm still doing work in that area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Well, thank you very much."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00121:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 43.911293398956104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. It was Mike [Michael J.] Smith, good old Mike Smith. And it was Rick Hauck. Those were the two guys. In fact, we went up to—have you ever been to the lodge in Cloudcroft [New Mexico]?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was in February. It was cold. And we drove up to the lodge for supper, and there was about that much snow on the ground up at Cloudcroft. See, Cloudcroft’s only fifteen miles from Alamogordo, but it’s about 5,000 feet higher. Yes, Mike was a good guy, but Mike and Rick were the pilots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This work also was awarded the Federal Incentive Award. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. We got it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how that worked and what that meant."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00121:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 42.123659332173446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was in February. It was cold. And we drove up to the lodge for supper, and there was about that much snow on the ground up at Cloudcroft. See, Cloudcroft’s only fifteen miles from Alamogordo, but it’s about 5,000 feet higher. Yes, Mike was a good guy, but Mike and Rick were the pilots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This work also was awarded the Federal Incentive Award. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. We got it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how that worked and what that meant."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know who turned it in. Somebody turned it in, and I got a letter from [President Ronald W.] Reagan saying, you guys done good. I got $2,000 or $3,000 or something like that for it, and there was a bunch of us. There was several guys involved in that. There was more than just Smith and Rick. I think Bobko was involved. There was a bunch of guys, and there was a lot of guys on the ground, too, like Tim Brown and myself and Dick [Richard D.] Tuntland and a few guys like that.\\n\\n One of the things that Ascent, Entry, and Procedure Section did do was work on some of the visual aids, because there was a triangle at the end of the runway. There was a triangle at the [outer glideslope] PAPIs. We went down to the Cape to figure out where to put those. Walked out, and they flew us out on the helicopter and flew us around. Then we walked out there and walked on up and got chiggers like you wouldn’t believe out there in that palmetto. So that was kind of a fun thing to do, that visual aid stuff. And every time I could get out of that Section Head business and get back to the technical stuff, I tried to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not so fun was, of course, the [Space Shuttle] Challenger [STS 51-L] accident."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00121:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 39.12624994864171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes. We were on time and on budget, yes, which is pretty unusual. We converted somewhere around—because a lot of the code was Univac code or in some other code, and so we had to convert it all to work in a distributed system, in a Unix or whatever, because a lot of it was in Fortran. And we converted a couple million lines of code."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember how many people this impacted, how many were going to be affected by this new system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would guess probably 300 or something like that, because it was all the flight design people in Rockwell. And then there were some terminals over onsite that the civil servants would use.\\n\\n But one of the things that happened during Apollo, and it just kept getting worse and worse and worse and worse, back early on, the civil service people did everything. As time progressed, as we closer and closer to the Shuttle, more contractors were involved, and now the civil servants were just contract monitors. It’s probably a little hard to say that. They’re more than that, but they became more of an overseer and a manager than they did a doer. So you’re losing a lot of internal expertise.\\n\\n So essentially, by the time we got to the Challenger, most all the detailed work was being done by contractors, and just the civil servants would kind of look over their shoulder to make sure it was being done right. So that took some of the control away from them. And I don’t think you can blame any of the accidents on that, but it certainly didn’t help anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s probably a good time for me to ask you about your participation on the Source Selection Board."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was thinking about that, and I think—when was that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I don’t think I have the date. I just saw that you had been on there."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00121:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 40.14027772071301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would guess probably 300 or something like that, because it was all the flight design people in Rockwell. And then there were some terminals over onsite that the civil servants would use.\\n\\n But one of the things that happened during Apollo, and it just kept getting worse and worse and worse and worse, back early on, the civil service people did everything. As time progressed, as we closer and closer to the Shuttle, more contractors were involved, and now the civil servants were just contract monitors. It’s probably a little hard to say that. They’re more than that, but they became more of an overseer and a manager than they did a doer. So you’re losing a lot of internal expertise.\\n\\n So essentially, by the time we got to the Challenger, most all the detailed work was being done by contractors, and just the civil servants would kind of look over their shoulder to make sure it was being done right. So that took some of the control away from them. And I don’t think you can blame any of the accidents on that, but it certainly didn’t help anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s probably a good time for me to ask you about your participation on the Source Selection Board."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was thinking about that, and I think—when was that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I don’t think I have the date. I just saw that you had been on there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, I think that was like March to June of [19]’85. I think it was like a three-month time. I’m not sure. It was a long time. I know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Felt like a long time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00029:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just as far as challenges go it was keeping up with the massive amount of stuff. Even since I've retired I've heard from my colleagues about tens of thousands of cubic feet of records that continue to come in, and as the bankruptcy records were all consolidated here. I know there's an ongoing project to get all of the appellate court records from the whole country. It's just because real estate costs less in Kansas City. I think it's really an economic move as much as anything. And we have so much cave storage in Kansas City. So it's a good locale for that. But just the sheer amount of stuff is overwhelming and to keep up with what's coming in was kind of overwhelming at times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you say the staff here in Research Services have the amount of records exponentially increasing but maybe not staff levels increasing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly. When I retired they've not been able to backfill my position. When I started with NARA, there were three of us who were archivists downtown. Jake Ersland who is now deputy director, Elizabeth Burnes is still an archivist but also a subject matter expert, so she's really only halftime here as archivist, and me. There were three of us. Well, when Jake was promoted, which was needed because we have archivists at all three offsite facilities, we didn't get his backfill. Now we're down to two people downtown. I've retired. Now we're down to Elizabeth downtown. I know what that's like because I filled in for Elizabeth while she was on maternity leave twice. There were two stretches of five or six months where I was the only archivist downtown. It just really does become overwhelming and very stressful. It's hard to provide really good one-on-one service to individual researchers when you've got so many requests coming in. There were months that I had a hundred reference requests."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a lot and when you're only on reference one day a week, it's a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know we can't even begin to cover everything, but is there anything else I haven't asked you about that you want to speak to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00074:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 41.77349408675267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the people who changed were my close friends. So it was my counterpart who I'd become friends with. His life changed. Without realizing it, he started picking my brain. I know a lot about small business. He started picking my brain about small business. He left the health center and started a small business. He now has one of the largest Home Depot kind of organizations in that region."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because he was a smart guy. He had a college degree and he figured out. And he set up now scholarships for local students. He, he is the good employer. He is the good, uh, business for the local people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because he gives them, he doesn't gouge them on prices of things and all sorts of stuff. You know, he does community development like I always think, look, I live in the United States. I live in a capitalist society. Let's take advantage of the good of it, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And you're still in contact with him?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00074:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.91306199952559, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it got kind of moved into we bring business people for training here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did reverse. I was a facilitator. We went to Mississippi and Vermont. It was done with another foundation. And so I was, I was loaned by the Peace Corps to them. So those were my trips back. And then my vacations, I just did local stuff. I went to La Ceiba, I went to the coast, but I tried to mix it with work. So I went to the northern coast of Honduras, and then I repaid the favor of all those people who'd come and done training for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went and did stuff for them. And then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there a lot of other Peace Corps volunteers in your area, since there were so many in-country?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00074:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 16.4476056589618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My salary was paid by my grant, that grant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we didn't get reimbursed for all those 152 cases because I settled them. And that's when I realized, you know what, I'm a systems person, I've got to be somewhere where we're working on these systems or helping people who work on these systems and changing these practices. And I thought that was going to be going on higher up in Legal Service of New Jersey to policy. But that's when somebody I went to law school with at Columbia called me up and said, I'm at the Robin Hood Foundation. We're looking for a program officer. You have all of the criteria that we need. They wanted somebody who had on the ground national and domestic community development experience in the areas that I was working with at Passaic County Legal Aid Society, who had a corporate background, who had gone to an Ivy League school, that wasn't stated, but that was kind of understood, and who was, uh, spoke multiple languages. I also speak Portuguese fluently. I learned that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Brazil?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before and after. Again, I'm a, if you're a student of literature and of language, it's easy to pick up these other romance languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially Spanish, or Brazil it's Portuguese. No?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00074:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.663710690076293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before and after. Again, I'm a, if you're a student of literature and of language, it's easy to pick up these other romance languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially Spanish, or Brazil it's Portuguese. No?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "English. No, it's English to Brazilian. The big mistake people make is how things are written is what's important. Now you learn you, if you try, the people who learn Spanish can't understand Portuguese. The Portuguese understand Spanish. You know why? Because there's more, there's more sounds and consonants that exist in Portuguese that aren't used in Spanish. And if you just hear, if you're a Portuguese speaker and you hear Spanish, it sounds like a slow Portuguese. If you are a Spanish speaker hearing Portuguese, you can't make it. I'll just tell you one, one word that you would know. You've heard the last name Andrade, right? Andrade, Spanish. In Portugal they go Andrade. In Brazil, Andrade. It sounds Italian. If you look at it on a paper, they're spelled the same way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same goes with how grammar works. Portuguese grammar is more complex, slightly more complex than Spanish grammar, and it's used differently. So in Portuguese. Um, okay. So in Spanish, no is no. So in Portuguese people say no, no, all the time. And in Spanish they don't understand what. In Portuguese, no is nao, N-A-O with the tilde. No, N-O, is the pulling together of two articles. In Spanish you have en la casa, en el car. In the house. In Portuguese, it's M-U. Well, it is house, so la casa. And Portuguese, em la casa. They combine the M and the la and they go na. So it's na casa. Na escritoire. You're in your desk. So when you're saying na in Portuguese, you're saying two articles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00074:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.959678544529215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "English. No, it's English to Brazilian. The big mistake people make is how things are written is what's important. Now you learn you, if you try, the people who learn Spanish can't understand Portuguese. The Portuguese understand Spanish. You know why? Because there's more, there's more sounds and consonants that exist in Portuguese that aren't used in Spanish. And if you just hear, if you're a Portuguese speaker and you hear Spanish, it sounds like a slow Portuguese. If you are a Spanish speaker hearing Portuguese, you can't make it. I'll just tell you one, one word that you would know. You've heard the last name Andrade, right? Andrade, Spanish. In Portugal they go Andrade. In Brazil, Andrade. It sounds Italian. If you look at it on a paper, they're spelled the same way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same goes with how grammar works. Portuguese grammar is more complex, slightly more complex than Spanish grammar, and it's used differently. So in Portuguese. Um, okay. So in Spanish, no is no. So in Portuguese people say no, no, all the time. And in Spanish they don't understand what. In Portuguese, no is nao, N-A-O with the tilde. No, N-O, is the pulling together of two articles. In Spanish you have en la casa, en el car. In the house. In Portuguese, it's M-U. Well, it is house, so la casa. And Portuguese, em la casa. They combine the M and the la and they go na. So it's na casa. Na escritoire. You're in your desk. So when you're saying na in Portuguese, you're saying two articles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's simple things that, you know that if you're a student of literature and you've studied the grammar and you can see the differences, then it's easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Can I get back to."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00074:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.399642827254683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same goes with how grammar works. Portuguese grammar is more complex, slightly more complex than Spanish grammar, and it's used differently. So in Portuguese. Um, okay. So in Spanish, no is no. So in Portuguese people say no, no, all the time. And in Spanish they don't understand what. In Portuguese, no is nao, N-A-O with the tilde. No, N-O, is the pulling together of two articles. In Spanish you have en la casa, en el car. In the house. In Portuguese, it's M-U. Well, it is house, so la casa. And Portuguese, em la casa. They combine the M and the la and they go na. So it's na casa. Na escritoire. You're in your desk. So when you're saying na in Portuguese, you're saying two articles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's simple things that, you know that if you're a student of literature and you've studied the grammar and you can see the differences, then it's easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Can I get back to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first came back to the United States."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00074:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.999603141394092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's simple things that, you know that if you're a student of literature and you've studied the grammar and you can see the differences, then it's easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Can I get back to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first came back to the United States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like for you after three plus years?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00074:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.6662257126601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first came back to the United States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like for you after three plus years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was culture shock. Huge culture shock. I was in a village with, it's different now because now there's all the phones and everything. But I didn't know what \"where's the beef\" meant. Because that happened when I was away. So I was culturally behind. My parents were frustrated with me because I learned how to speak Honduran Spanish, which is much slower than Cuban Spanish. I came back with a lot of machismo, unconscious things that I did, like not washing my plates. Not because I didn't want to, I washed my plates in Honduras. They wouldn't let me. So I'm sitting there. My grandmother is like, you think I'm going to wash that plate? And things like that. Law school was probably the best environment I could go into in the first three months. It was a distraction. I had to read 1,000 pages a night. So I just focused on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went almost directly into law school."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00074:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.3410193983458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was culture shock. Huge culture shock. I was in a village with, it's different now because now there's all the phones and everything. But I didn't know what \"where's the beef\" meant. Because that happened when I was away. So I was culturally behind. My parents were frustrated with me because I learned how to speak Honduran Spanish, which is much slower than Cuban Spanish. I came back with a lot of machismo, unconscious things that I did, like not washing my plates. Not because I didn't want to, I washed my plates in Honduras. They wouldn't let me. So I'm sitting there. My grandmother is like, you think I'm going to wash that plate? And things like that. Law school was probably the best environment I could go into in the first three months. It was a distraction. I had to read 1,000 pages a night. So I just focused on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went almost directly into law school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I literally walked off the plane and walked into a classroom the next day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't go to the law school orientation. Nothing like that. I walked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00074:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.688979999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Blond and, uh, you know, and believe me, getting a daughter recognized in two different countries is, is, a bit of a challenge. But I learned how to work the bureaucracy. And by working I don't mean subverting it, I mean just how it works, getting what you need in front of the person that you need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Finding a way to do it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And getting everything done legally and appropriately. But sometimes you've got to give it a little, a little grease to just get it moving because it just stalls sometimes, not because of anybody's fault. It's just a paper. It gets accidentally filed in the wrong place. It took two years for my wife and daughter. I married my, I did do everything you're supposed to do. I married my wife in Honduras because there was no way to bring her daughter with her here. She could have come here. But I wasn't going to have another child left behind. So I married in Honduras and I had her, and she should have come over in eight months. But paperwork got misfiled. It took two years to get them over and it actually took a contact I know knowing somebody at Homeland Security, Homeland, um, Office of Homeland Security to just look at the file, to find it, and say this should have been processed a year ago and processing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I'm always thankful to those people who, again, if there had been a problem, you know, not going to tell you. But it wasn't a problem. It was just that it wasn't followed appropriately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Is there anything else you want to say about Peace Corps or your experience?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00074:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 8.258, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I'm always thankful to those people who, again, if there had been a problem, you know, not going to tell you. But it wasn't a problem. It was just that it wasn't followed appropriately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Is there anything else you want to say about Peace Corps or your experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I still think it's a valuable thing. I think we need it. I mean, the, if. I may not have been as active in the Returned Peace Corps Volunteers of Honduras, but I'm very active in all the things that have to do with educating people about what's going on in Central America in my daily life and when there are campaigns that pop up. Liberia wouldn't be Liberia today without returned Peace Corps volunteers. We've had Peace Corps volunteers now serve in all sorts of positions of government, and they bring just a perspective of we live in a big world and we need to understand our indirect impact that you may not think we're having, but everything that we do. When I was in Honduras and Clinton beat Bush, people in Honduras did not believe that Bush was going to cede power to Clinton. And that sounds funny. But, you know, in Honduras, that hasn't happened recently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was the big thing when Obama got elected, too, people couldn't believe that, A, somebody not from a rich political family had won."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And B, that he would be allowed to take power."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00012:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 29.464150490100003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there were. There's stories after stories about—I probably had it cush compared to certainly the guys who pulled ship duty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that just random chance, where they were assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was random chance how I got assigned, at least on the first simulation, NS-1. I think it was random chance where I got assigned. Later on, I think certain crews, subcrews, got kind of set as to which manager was going to which location, and therefore they started kind of picking which team they wanted to take with them. But it was random.\\n\\n The thing that happened, of course, I then came back to Mission Control Center in Houston and spent the rest of my career there, so I never deployed after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about coming back to Houston to work at the control center, what was your first mission there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First mission I worked in Mission Control Center was Gemini IV, if my memory's right. We controlled Gemini II out of Florida, and I was there. Controlled Gemini III out of Florida with Houston, I believe, in a parallel mode, not active but parallel. In fact, I think they had a power failure right in the middle of the launch here in Houston. Do I remember that right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so, yes."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00012:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.63549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the other big surprise, of course, because we were all sitting there with our fingers crossed, because we were in lunar orbit and we couldn't wait to get out of lunar orbit, I remember that, but when the crew came around the horn from the far side of the moon and started reading from Genesis, to watch the reaction in the Mission Control Center, because here we are, you know, totally concentrating on our technical job, and for that to happen and then the onset, it just didn't occur to us, because none of us had any clues that was going to happen. And it took us a while to realize what was happening, the significance of that, and—wham!—it hit us. I mean, looking back on it, nothing could have been more perfect of a thing to have been said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it not only impacted everyone in Washington, but it particularly impacted the mission controllers, because they were sitting there doing this highly technical jargon-oriented job, and then just the transition from that to a reading from Genesis, that was the big surprise.\\n\\n Apollo 8, of course, culminated a lot of things, because we had spent so much time redesigning the spacecraft, it seemed like a lot of time then. In today's world it doesn't seem much time at all, because what we do now in years we judged then in months. But we just completely redesigned the vehicle, had one test flight on Apollo 7, and then made the decision to go to the moon, and it was highly successful, not only the spacecraft, but the Saturn V. I mean, we forget sometimes the shaky start the Saturn V had. We had 501 and 502, and those were not anomaly-free missions. Had major anomalies with the boosters on those two unmanned flights. So it was a bold move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But one that proved spectacularly successful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. It set the stage to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If we can pause here for a moment, it's four o'clock."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00012:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.706100000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it not only impacted everyone in Washington, but it particularly impacted the mission controllers, because they were sitting there doing this highly technical jargon-oriented job, and then just the transition from that to a reading from Genesis, that was the big surprise.\\n\\n Apollo 8, of course, culminated a lot of things, because we had spent so much time redesigning the spacecraft, it seemed like a lot of time then. In today's world it doesn't seem much time at all, because what we do now in years we judged then in months. But we just completely redesigned the vehicle, had one test flight on Apollo 7, and then made the decision to go to the moon, and it was highly successful, not only the spacecraft, but the Saturn V. I mean, we forget sometimes the shaky start the Saturn V had. We had 501 and 502, and those were not anomaly-free missions. Had major anomalies with the boosters on those two unmanned flights. So it was a bold move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But one that proved spectacularly successful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. It set the stage to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If we can pause here for a moment, it's four o'clock."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've got some more time, but you may want to collect your thoughts and understand what you want to zoom in on, because we have not touched on particular facets of sort of my perspective of what makes things work at NASA and what doesn't work, and I can comment about that technically as well as management systems, and you may want to save that for another day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Again, depending on how much time you have, if you think it may take longer than what you have, you know we're more than happy to come back."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00012:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The interesting thing would be, because this is really just an archive, the interesting thing would be, because everybody sees the problem from their own perspective, and I'm as guilty of that, because we're all a product of our experience, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be interesting to interview Neil Hutchinson, who was the program manager at the time, interview Aaron Cohen, you're interviewing myself, Gerry Griffin, John [D.] Hodge, Phil Culbertson. I don't know whether you know Phil Culbertson or not. He was the associate administrator for Space Station when all this got started. And then try to piece the story together as to what was our decision process that caused all that to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's only through talking with the people that were involved that you really do get a sense of that decision process. In reading meeting minutes or whatever other documents doesn't really give you an idea of the true process behind these things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the Space Station you see today still has heritage to some of those early decisions. Some were good and some were not so good. That's protracted its technical efficiency to weigh more, take more power than it probably should have as a monolithic design, and certainly cost more. Now, the reason that's important is because that's the way of the future. We're not going to return to the world of Gemini, where you write a one-page summary of a space ship and just have one organization monolithically build it. We're in the business of how to farm out work to international partners, probably anybody that will take it, right? Because I'm convinced going to Mars, no single country is probably going to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think a lot of people agree with you on that."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 23.12638074986664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I started actually in archives work at the Maine State Archives in the late 1960s in a program that had just been legislated. And so I was one of the first hires there, and many of our consultants actually worked for the National Archives. And so I, early on in my career, was exposed to people like Frank Evans and Frank Burke and Bert Rhodes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later on, I spent about five years doing consultant work, mostly on funding from the NHPRC, including a project that looked at library and archives preservation needs in all the states west of the Mississippi. And from there, I spent about eight years as the state archivist and records administrator in Oklahoma and another 11 years in the state archives and records administrator in Delaware. And that brings me up to roughly my time of starting it at NARA. I think the relevant experience was being a state archivist. That was kind of the key experience I went to. I'm an archivist that's really never processed the collection. All of my experience has been on the administrative side of government archives programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your impressions of the agency at the time that you started? You just mentioned some pretty significant names."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I always had a favorable impression of the National Archives. I think it was reinforced once I got there by the really thoughtful quality of the professionals who work there. This was where some of the cutting-edge technology was being discussed. I mean, back as late as the early 1970s in Maine, we were working with Frank Burke on SPINDEX issues, which was an early National Archives initiative in trying to control records using electronic means. And so I always had a pretty positive vision of the National Archives. And after my ten years there, that hasn't changed. The people there are exceptional."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What part of that job did you enjoy? What was the work? I mean, you mentioned being an archivist who didn't process collections. So what part of your days did you like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.500986468613895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There were physical facility issues at Suitland. Early on, we had a serious fire at Suitland, which damaged a lot of records, which we investigated but were not able to substantiate. But there were indications that it was an inside job. A disgruntled employee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. You mentioned it. One of your questions down here below about the flood in 2006 at Archives I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, about a week after that, we had a water incident at Suitland that damaged 15,000 cubic feet of records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.334429409570994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. You mentioned it. One of your questions down here below about the flood in 2006 at Archives I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, about a week after that, we had a water incident at Suitland that damaged 15,000 cubic feet of records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it seemed like about once every six to eight months there was some kind of water leak. It was an old building then, and it was one of the challenging areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. Well, speaking of, I just realized I'm tangentially connected to it because some of the records got loaned for an exhibit that is now in storage. Did you have any role in it? I know there were archival records brought from Iraq in 2003. I mean, they were in a flooded basement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but could you speak a little bit to that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.721517789593818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it seemed like about once every six to eight months there was some kind of water leak. It was an old building then, and it was one of the challenging areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. Well, speaking of, I just realized I'm tangentially connected to it because some of the records got loaned for an exhibit that is now in storage. Did you have any role in it? I know there were archival records brought from Iraq in 2003. I mean, they were in a flooded basement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but could you speak a little bit to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were contacted by the Department of Defense, about what ended up being called the Iraqi-Jewish Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were in a flooded basement in Saddam Hussein's headquarters. And we detailed three people to go to Iraq. Actually, two of our conservatives went into Iraq, Mary Lynn Ritzenthaler and Doris Hamburg, to oversee the removal of those records from that basement and the shipping of the records back to the United States for conservation, treatment, and preservation. Luckily I found some volunteers. Probably not one of the things I look forward to doing is sending, you know, people who work for me into a war zone. But that's what they did and that's what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's an amazing story, the records being saved and preserved. Are there any other events that you want to speak about before we move on to your duties in your second role as the Senior Advisor for Disaster Preparedness?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.357241988437575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were contacted by the Department of Defense, about what ended up being called the Iraqi-Jewish Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were in a flooded basement in Saddam Hussein's headquarters. And we detailed three people to go to Iraq. Actually, two of our conservatives went into Iraq, Mary Lynn Ritzenthaler and Doris Hamburg, to oversee the removal of those records from that basement and the shipping of the records back to the United States for conservation, treatment, and preservation. Luckily I found some volunteers. Probably not one of the things I look forward to doing is sending, you know, people who work for me into a war zone. But that's what they did and that's what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's an amazing story, the records being saved and preserved. Are there any other events that you want to speak about before we move on to your duties in your second role as the Senior Advisor for Disaster Preparedness?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the other role was working with a lot of other people at NARA, but being involved in the development of the Archives Research Catalog, the ARC catalog, being involved in development of ERA [Electronic Records Archives] and really moving NARA into the electronic records age both in how we dealt with our customer agencies and also how we dealt with our internal processes and procedures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huge shifts forward. Can you speak at all about your role during the ERA? I mean, what did it look like? Were you part of a huge team or was there only certain staff? Just explain a little bit how it worked."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.351534809385114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they're in parallel. ARC was more of finding aid and collections control system. ERA was more a preservation system. But they were running in parallel silos, but had intersections at points. As we were the office of the National Archives that ran both the archives part of the program and the records management part of the program, we were involved in a lot of those intersections and trying to see where they were and how they relate to each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Would ERA have debuted before you switched to your different role around 2007?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think early iterations of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, they had moved it to the off-site location out in West Virginia. And they moved ERA staff out there. And I'm unclear about the timing of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you kind of describe in your mind then, especially being part of such huge shifts in how records management was, how did the mission transform with electronic records being added on to it, or it still remains largely the same?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.84140099924088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, they had moved it to the off-site location out in West Virginia. And they moved ERA staff out there. And I'm unclear about the timing of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you kind of describe in your mind then, especially being part of such huge shifts in how records management was, how did the mission transform with electronic records being added on to it, or it still remains largely the same?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mission has always been the same: to determine, you know, what records need to be preserved, for how long, to protect rights and obligations, to hold us accountable as public officials, and to document the history of the United States. Mission in the National Archives really hasn't changed, probably at that level from its inception in 1934. So how we accomplished the mission changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, back in the Carlin administration there was a brief statement of what the mission was that everybody was supposed to know and it was \"access to essential evidence.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I remember that."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.82377888804542, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mission has always been the same: to determine, you know, what records need to be preserved, for how long, to protect rights and obligations, to hold us accountable as public officials, and to document the history of the United States. Mission in the National Archives really hasn't changed, probably at that level from its inception in 1934. So how we accomplished the mission changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, back in the Carlin administration there was a brief statement of what the mission was that everybody was supposed to know and it was \"access to essential evidence.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I remember that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's what the National Archives did. I actually like that because people could you know, you could have that tattooed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought it was intuitive. And sometimes it's hard to describe what an archive does."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.36268998524126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's what the National Archives did. I actually like that because people could you know, you could have that tattooed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought it was intuitive. And sometimes it's hard to describe what an archive does."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it was something everybody could remember, you know, from the guy who's pulling records out there in the records center to the Archivist. You could say that. But there were some people who didn't like that. So hey, I'm glad I didn't get it tattooed anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was another employee down in Houston who had a tattoo of the NARA seal on his arm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 25.958544428045844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it was something everybody could remember, you know, from the guy who's pulling records out there in the records center to the Archivist. You could say that. But there were some people who didn't like that. So hey, I'm glad I didn't get it tattooed anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was another employee down in Houston who had a tattoo of the NARA seal on his arm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope he's got his whole career in NARA because it would have been really tough to go to work for another agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, maybe a little awkward. Is there anything else you want to add about the years you were the deputy? Or I would like to hear from you about really kind of what your relationship looked like with other agencies while you were advising on disaster preparedness."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.95393825338427, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was another employee down in Houston who had a tattoo of the NARA seal on his arm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope he's got his whole career in NARA because it would have been really tough to go to work for another agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, maybe a little awkward. Is there anything else you want to add about the years you were the deputy? Or I would like to hear from you about really kind of what your relationship looked like with other agencies while you were advising on disaster preparedness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. NARA was always disaster preparedness. I was there during 9/11. Probably one of the worst workdays any of us in the public sector have had. Not to mention the country. As we worried about whether our staff in New York and our staff at the Pentagon were safe. And not knowing what was going to happen potentially in Washington, where we at the National Archives weren't on the A-list of targets, but we were on the B-list of targets. There was a lot of thinking at the National Archives after that about the continuity of our operations, at least. And so as one of the primary offices and the one responsible for all the records from the Declaration of Independence on down, I spent a fair amount of time thinking about issues of disaster response. But it really hit us with Katrina and Rita and I think the other one was Wilma. There were three hurricanes all at once, which, as you well know, devastated New Orleans and especially the Mississippi coast. All of a sudden, we were getting calls from people in Mississippi and New Orleans about whether we could help. And people were calling. My perception was the people in the impacted area down there, anybody they knew at the National Archives, they picked up the phone and called just to see, could we help? And we had no vehicles to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to clarify, is this like other local archives or a records center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.059931392649187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope he's got his whole career in NARA because it would have been really tough to go to work for another agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, maybe a little awkward. Is there anything else you want to add about the years you were the deputy? Or I would like to hear from you about really kind of what your relationship looked like with other agencies while you were advising on disaster preparedness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. NARA was always disaster preparedness. I was there during 9/11. Probably one of the worst workdays any of us in the public sector have had. Not to mention the country. As we worried about whether our staff in New York and our staff at the Pentagon were safe. And not knowing what was going to happen potentially in Washington, where we at the National Archives weren't on the A-list of targets, but we were on the B-list of targets. There was a lot of thinking at the National Archives after that about the continuity of our operations, at least. And so as one of the primary offices and the one responsible for all the records from the Declaration of Independence on down, I spent a fair amount of time thinking about issues of disaster response. But it really hit us with Katrina and Rita and I think the other one was Wilma. There were three hurricanes all at once, which, as you well know, devastated New Orleans and especially the Mississippi coast. All of a sudden, we were getting calls from people in Mississippi and New Orleans about whether we could help. And people were calling. My perception was the people in the impacted area down there, anybody they knew at the National Archives, they picked up the phone and called just to see, could we help? And we had no vehicles to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to clarify, is this like other local archives or a records center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Archivist of the United States got a call from somebody who apparently he knew who was the chief coroner in New Orleans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my gosh. Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.288812658499097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. NARA was always disaster preparedness. I was there during 9/11. Probably one of the worst workdays any of us in the public sector have had. Not to mention the country. As we worried about whether our staff in New York and our staff at the Pentagon were safe. And not knowing what was going to happen potentially in Washington, where we at the National Archives weren't on the A-list of targets, but we were on the B-list of targets. There was a lot of thinking at the National Archives after that about the continuity of our operations, at least. And so as one of the primary offices and the one responsible for all the records from the Declaration of Independence on down, I spent a fair amount of time thinking about issues of disaster response. But it really hit us with Katrina and Rita and I think the other one was Wilma. There were three hurricanes all at once, which, as you well know, devastated New Orleans and especially the Mississippi coast. All of a sudden, we were getting calls from people in Mississippi and New Orleans about whether we could help. And people were calling. My perception was the people in the impacted area down there, anybody they knew at the National Archives, they picked up the phone and called just to see, could we help? And we had no vehicles to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to clarify, is this like other local archives or a records center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Archivist of the United States got a call from somebody who apparently he knew who was the chief coroner in New Orleans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my gosh. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Asking if we could help him recover his records. And in fact, the National Archives got a big mission assignment at the end, and we sent our preservation people to New Orleans to help pack out records from the morgue in New Orleans Parish. I have some photographs of what it looked like down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. And do you remember any of the staff who were there or who were sent down there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.60879651371618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, it was Mary Lynn Ritzenthaler who was the lead on that. And she was also one of the leads on the most interesting project that I was involved with, which was the conservation of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like to think I'm one of probably less than a hundred people who have ever seen both the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence up close and personal outside of their cases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's incredible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had been in for 50 years and the new encasement was supposed to last for another 50 years. And that was as close to a religious experience as one can have, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can only imagine. So were you there when NARA started having a conversation that there needed to be some \"TLC\" given to the Declaration and Constitution and better cases? Or had that been a conversation that had been happening for a while?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.009773904129087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like to think I'm one of probably less than a hundred people who have ever seen both the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence up close and personal outside of their cases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's incredible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had been in for 50 years and the new encasement was supposed to last for another 50 years. And that was as close to a religious experience as one can have, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can only imagine. So were you there when NARA started having a conversation that there needed to be some \"TLC\" given to the Declaration and Constitution and better cases? Or had that been a conversation that had been happening for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's been happening, I think, since kind of the mid-1990s. They started to notice that things were starting to bubble in the glass, and so there were some concerns that there was changes being made in the encasements themselves. And so that suggested at some point that the documents needed to be taken out of their 1953 encasements and at least get re-encased. And while they were out of the encasements to have the conservators actually evaluate the documents and do what needed to be done from a preservation point of view and a conservation point of view. And if you haven't talked to Mary Lynn about these things, I think that would be a fascinating oral history. She was one of the few people to touch those documents in the past 50 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I agree. I just made a note to check. We have a master list of people who participated in the interviews, and so I made a note to check that because I think she would be someone, if we have not yet, that we should talk to."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.042789062839635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Since New Orleans was in the Fort Worth region. And we also sent our staff from Atlanta to Mississippi since Mississippi was in the Atlanta region. And so we had NARA staff on the ground including the Archivist of the United States, who was Allen Weinstein by that time. And he really wanted to go and look. And I talked to my colleague down in Mississippi, who was the head of the Mississippi program. Finally, we had to convince the Archivist that we don't want you to come to Mississippi right now. We can't accommodate you. We're in the middle of a disaster response. Please don't come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Allen did defer for about a month, but he did go to Mississippi and he went to New Orleans. Let me tell the story at least a little bit here, because I think it's a relatively important story for the National Archives and it kind of change. My colleague Barbara Voss, who was the regional director of Denver, came to Washington and spent about two weeks trying to figure out how to respond to all the requests we were getting from people in Mississippi and Louisiana. When we sat down with FEMA, we found out that, in terms of the national response plan, which is the thing that drives FEMA response to any kind of disaster, both historical and governmental records were not in the plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And therefore if it's not in the plan, we don't have to respond to it. And so part of what I did in the last three years at the National Archives was to work with FEMA. But in particular to work with the Department of Interior, which was responsible for that part of the national response plan that dealt with historical sites to incorporate records as a critical asset that would be subject to response and recovery in case of disasters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so you're saying that it wasn't until Katrina that there was a conversation about including records."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.818258102271155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And therefore if it's not in the plan, we don't have to respond to it. And so part of what I did in the last three years at the National Archives was to work with FEMA. But in particular to work with the Department of Interior, which was responsible for that part of the national response plan that dealt with historical sites to incorporate records as a critical asset that would be subject to response and recovery in case of disasters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so you're saying that it wasn't until Katrina that there was a conversation about including records."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the National Infrastructure Protection Program and the National Response Plan, records were not considered. And if people talk about them at all, they talk about vital records, which they thought were births, deaths, and marriages. Because for a lot of people, that's what a vital record is, as opposed to an essential record that you need for the continuity of your operations. And so a lot of it was working within the bureaucracy to try to figure out how we raise the issue of records as an asset that needed to be recovered for the purposes of government continuity following a disaster. And the last time I checked, those are still all in the plans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we just did a COOP [Continuity of Operations Planning] exercise maybe a week or two ago. Were there COOP exercises before this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.713641386426788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So early 2007 I told my boss I was going to retire. As we worked through that, the Archivist came back to me with a counterproposal that if I was to look at the position, would I be interested in working in disaster preparedness, trying to get this into the national plan. And I could work in Maine instead of retiring. That sounded like a pretty good deal. The second part of that assignment was to still try to coordinate coalescing the records management staffs across the country and into one unit. I spent the last three years working basically only on two issues: disaster response and the Integrated Records Management Program. And that was probably the most rewarding part of the whole National Archives 10 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's the old saying, it's not what you know, it's who you know. And I think in this business, that really is true. It's making the relationships. There's a disaster preparedness thing that says you don't want to be exchanging business cards as the fire department comes to put out your fire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And FEMA and a lot of this thing is all about building relationships across the government. So when there is a disaster, you can pick up the phone and call somebody and they have some idea who you are. And I think the National Archives did that fairly well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's really great."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.75758195855159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And FEMA and a lot of this thing is all about building relationships across the government. So when there is a disaster, you can pick up the phone and call somebody and they have some idea who you are. And I think the National Archives did that fairly well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's really great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Parts of the National Archives that were fun? I think working with our colleagues up in Ottawa at Library Archives Canada. I enjoyed that immensely. Having a chance early on to look at the script for National T reasure , because at that time they wanted to film part of that movie inside the National Archives. So we had to try and figure out where they could film and where they couldn’t film. And interestingly enough, once they did all of that and they looked at all the requirements to film in the building itself, they found it cheaper to rebuild the Rotunda of the National Archives on the soundstage in California. And if you look at the movie real carefully, it looks like the National Archives, the Rotunda, but there are some things that are different. You know, the whole premise of the movie: there was something on the back of the Declaration of Independence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there actually is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right. Yes, I knew that. But what was it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.730646620612879, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Parts of the National Archives that were fun? I think working with our colleagues up in Ottawa at Library Archives Canada. I enjoyed that immensely. Having a chance early on to look at the script for National T reasure , because at that time they wanted to film part of that movie inside the National Archives. So we had to try and figure out where they could film and where they couldn’t film. And interestingly enough, once they did all of that and they looked at all the requirements to film in the building itself, they found it cheaper to rebuild the Rotunda of the National Archives on the soundstage in California. And if you look at the movie real carefully, it looks like the National Archives, the Rotunda, but there are some things that are different. You know, the whole premise of the movie: there was something on the back of the Declaration of Independence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there actually is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right. Yes, I knew that. But what was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "July Fourth. So in a sense it’s a file header. So when the document was rolled up, there was an indication about what the document was, July 4th, 1776."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I see. Well, I will definitely look very closely next time. I had heard about the movie. They did end up doing some street shots, correct? Or do you know."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.79092175384306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "July Fourth. So in a sense it’s a file header. So when the document was rolled up, there was an indication about what the document was, July 4th, 1776."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I see. Well, I will definitely look very closely next time. I had heard about the movie. They did end up doing some street shots, correct? Or do you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did three shots outside and the opening sequence outside, but they ended up doing nothing inside the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Nicolas Cage did come, and I was not there that day. My boss, Mike Kurtz, took him through the National Archives and said he was really just kind of a down-to-earth guy. And he went into the Rotunda and he spent a couple of hours just signing autographs for anybody who was there, who said, \"oh, that's Nicolas Cage!\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's so neat."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.87880194871451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did three shots outside and the opening sequence outside, but they ended up doing nothing inside the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Nicolas Cage did come, and I was not there that day. My boss, Mike Kurtz, took him through the National Archives and said he was really just kind of a down-to-earth guy. And he went into the Rotunda and he spent a couple of hours just signing autographs for anybody who was there, who said, \"oh, that's Nicolas Cage!\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's so neat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I thought so too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that becomes quite onerous after a while."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.087557720793901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Nicolas Cage did come, and I was not there that day. My boss, Mike Kurtz, took him through the National Archives and said he was really just kind of a down-to-earth guy. And he went into the Rotunda and he spent a couple of hours just signing autographs for anybody who was there, who said, \"oh, that's Nicolas Cage!\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's so neat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I thought so too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that becomes quite onerous after a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would think so. Although I suppose if you're a movie star, if you were someplace that nobody recognized you, that would be even worse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I never thought about it like that."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.430619689771001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I thought so too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that becomes quite onerous after a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would think so. Although I suppose if you're a movie star, if you were someplace that nobody recognized you, that would be even worse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I never thought about it like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was one of the fun things that happened at the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. There's so much you were a part of and you were involved in, I'm not even barely hitting the tip of the iceberg. I was going to shift focus to your time serving as commissioner for the NHPRC, but I don't want to move on if you still have other things to speak to."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.700688544190001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would think so. Although I suppose if you're a movie star, if you were someplace that nobody recognized you, that would be even worse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I never thought about it like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was one of the fun things that happened at the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. There's so much you were a part of and you were involved in, I'm not even barely hitting the tip of the iceberg. I was going to shift focus to your time serving as commissioner for the NHPRC, but I don't want to move on if you still have other things to speak to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually don't have a lot to recall about that, and I didn't have any notes for that that I could go back and look at. I was on the Commission from the late nineties while I was still a state archivist in Delaware. And obviously had to resign from the Commission when I started working for NARA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, of course. Got it. I think that's why you were recommended to me to ask about the archivist who did some work in the USVI [U.S. Virgin Islands], maybe because the NHPRC provided a grant for a year for that. But it was a little bit before your time."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.93921611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And maybe now that you said that, maybe the person to talk with would be Larry Hackman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Larry Hackman."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Longtime state archivist in New York, longtime director of the Truman Library, out in your neck of the woods. But probably in that time, he was on the staff with Frank Burke at the NHPRC when that grant was done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, thank you."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 15.488017900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Longtime state archivist in New York, longtime director of the Truman Library, out in your neck of the woods. But probably in that time, he was on the staff with Frank Burke at the NHPRC when that grant was done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't have contact information for him, but I know he's now living in Massachusetts, and I could get that to you if that would be useful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that would be. Thank you. Well before. Real quick, did you, did you spend a lot of time while you were at NARA being involved with other professional organizations? Or did it help your role at NARA to have those organizations to look to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.034590000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't have contact information for him, but I know he's now living in Massachusetts, and I could get that to you if that would be useful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that would be. Thank you. Well before. Real quick, did you, did you spend a lot of time while you were at NARA being involved with other professional organizations? Or did it help your role at NARA to have those organizations to look to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, the work with the Council of State Archivists was critical to reacting both to the Katrina situation itself and then incorporating disaster preparedness into the NARA portfolio. After Katrina, we did two or three disaster response work with the state archives. Especially in the Midwest with the river flooding, which in Missouri, at least on the other side, happens quite frequently. There was some serious flooding probably in 2008, 2009, somewhere around there that we did some work with. We worked a little bit with the Hawaii State Archives and some people on the west coast when there was a typhoon in American Samoa. And actually the last kind of disaster response thing, which has nothing to do with the United States, that I worked on, was trying to support the archives recovery efforts in Haiti after the earthquake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. And that was working primarily through what is known as the Blue Shield and the International Council of Archives out of Paris. But overall trying to support the archives in Haiti. The Foundation of the National Archives actually provided some money to them to be able to buy supplies. It's always interesting to work with a foreign government. It made the job at NARA interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds very interesting."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.705100000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, the work with the Council of State Archivists was critical to reacting both to the Katrina situation itself and then incorporating disaster preparedness into the NARA portfolio. After Katrina, we did two or three disaster response work with the state archives. Especially in the Midwest with the river flooding, which in Missouri, at least on the other side, happens quite frequently. There was some serious flooding probably in 2008, 2009, somewhere around there that we did some work with. We worked a little bit with the Hawaii State Archives and some people on the west coast when there was a typhoon in American Samoa. And actually the last kind of disaster response thing, which has nothing to do with the United States, that I worked on, was trying to support the archives recovery efforts in Haiti after the earthquake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. And that was working primarily through what is known as the Blue Shield and the International Council of Archives out of Paris. But overall trying to support the archives in Haiti. The Foundation of the National Archives actually provided some money to them to be able to buy supplies. It's always interesting to work with a foreign government. It made the job at NARA interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and so you have mentioned a couple, but are there any other challenges or issues that you've faced? I can't imagine that for disaster preparedness, that things were easy on many days, but anything that you want to speak to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. And that was working primarily through what is known as the Blue Shield and the International Council of Archives out of Paris. But overall trying to support the archives in Haiti. The Foundation of the National Archives actually provided some money to them to be able to buy supplies. It's always interesting to work with a foreign government. It made the job at NARA interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and so you have mentioned a couple, but are there any other challenges or issues that you've faced? I can't imagine that for disaster preparedness, that things were easy on many days, but anything that you want to speak to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were responding to all these disasters, like 9/11 and stuff, but all the regular business was still going on. That kind of surprised me going back because these issues are so in your mind about your experience. But the day-to-day stuff continued."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. We're kind of wrapping up. Is there anything you want to add? Anecdotes? Words of wisdom? Any memories? I mean, like the Nicholas Cage one is kind of along the lines. I was thinking of anything like that that you want to share."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll tell you another kind of fun story, if you like. The Archivist was supposed to go to meet with the National Archivists of the European countries and Canada. And for some reason, Allen couldn't do that. So he said to Mike Kurtz, Mike, you go in my place. And about a week before this happened, Mike came to me and said, I got a problem. I don't have a passport that's current."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I looked at him and said, I do. And so my last trip to Paris was to that meeting, and it was a very interesting meeting. One of the social things that we did there was that all the archivists from the European Union countries and the Commonwealth countries went to the ballet at the opera house in Paris."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "An amazing experience. One of our staff members on the records management staff had a sister in the State Department who was in Paris at that time. So I also got a tour of the American Embassy in Paris."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what a trip."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00019:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I looked at him and said, I do. And so my last trip to Paris was to that meeting, and it was a very interesting meeting. One of the social things that we did there was that all the archivists from the European Union countries and the Commonwealth countries went to the ballet at the opera house in Paris."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "An amazing experience. One of our staff members on the records management staff had a sister in the State Department who was in Paris at that time. So I also got a tour of the American Embassy in Paris."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what a trip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So for every 15,000 boxes of records that we had to deal with on the not-too-good days, there were always a lot of good days at the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well, that's really nice. If you don't have anything else to add, I think I'll conclude our interview. I do appreciate your time very much. Thank you for speaking with me today."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00754:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.56789865760077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm a Muscovite born in Moscow, in Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go to school and which university did you attend, and what were your areas of study?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started my education in Moscow, in high school in Moscow, and then I graduated in a little town not far from Moscow, but the quality of education basically was the same in Moscow and that little town.\\n\\n After my service in the Russian Army, the Soviet Army, I went to the university. Now it's called university, but it used to be called the Technical Institute named after Bauman. It's a high technical institute in Moscow. I graduated from that university and I majored as an electrical engineer. To be more precise, spacecraft control systems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long have you been with the Russian Space Program? When did you become a cosmonaut, and what was your first mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked on the Russian Space Program, the Russian space industry, since 1964. The first opportunity that I was trying to use to become a cosmonaut was back in 1967. So the things worked out in such a way that my first flight took place in 1983."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain the cosmonaut selection process, what the educational requirements or the work or flight experience requirements are?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00754:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.10851686123552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked on the Russian Space Program, the Russian space industry, since 1964. The first opportunity that I was trying to use to become a cosmonaut was back in 1967. So the things worked out in such a way that my first flight took place in 1983."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain the cosmonaut selection process, what the educational requirements or the work or flight experience requirements are?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the practice, the experience in the Russian Space Program is such that all the commanders of spacecrafts and/or space stations are former military pilots or current military pilots. Mission specialists--we call them onboard engineers--they are technical specialists. They are civilians.\\n\\n The requirements are basically the same to both categories of the cosmonauts. First is health. You have to have good health. You have to have the graduate degree specifically in the technical field, preferably. And the category which we call cosmonaut investigators or cosmonaut researchers, they also had to have the graduate degree in astronomy or biology or medicine or all the applicable fields. Of course, it also is preferred to have a person who had some experience in space program before he decides to join the Cosmonaut Corps. Of course, there is also an age limit. It's not that rigid, it's not that strict, but, of course, we prefer to hire younger people. They go through basic general training and then they are assigned certain plans, certain programs for certain missions. That's the process, how it goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. The selection process seems very similar to that of the U.S. astronaut program. Can I ask him, which of these categories did he fly as: engineer or the researcher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as a mission specialist. Yes, I flew those missions as what we call an onboard engineer or mission specialist, being a civilian person, so during those missions I represented the RSC [Rocket Space Corporation] Energia. It's not exactly mission specialist; it's onboard engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about your flight to Mir, the 2B flight? How many days were you in orbit, and did you accomplish any space walks?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00754:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.676129845817242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the practice, the experience in the Russian Space Program is such that all the commanders of spacecrafts and/or space stations are former military pilots or current military pilots. Mission specialists--we call them onboard engineers--they are technical specialists. They are civilians.\\n\\n The requirements are basically the same to both categories of the cosmonauts. First is health. You have to have good health. You have to have the graduate degree specifically in the technical field, preferably. And the category which we call cosmonaut investigators or cosmonaut researchers, they also had to have the graduate degree in astronomy or biology or medicine or all the applicable fields. Of course, it also is preferred to have a person who had some experience in space program before he decides to join the Cosmonaut Corps. Of course, there is also an age limit. It's not that rigid, it's not that strict, but, of course, we prefer to hire younger people. They go through basic general training and then they are assigned certain plans, certain programs for certain missions. That's the process, how it goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. The selection process seems very similar to that of the U.S. astronaut program. Can I ask him, which of these categories did he fly as: engineer or the researcher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as a mission specialist. Yes, I flew those missions as what we call an onboard engineer or mission specialist, being a civilian person, so during those missions I represented the RSC [Rocket Space Corporation] Energia. It's not exactly mission specialist; it's onboard engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about your flight to Mir, the 2B flight? How many days were you in orbit, and did you accomplish any space walks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was in the second mission, second flight to the Space Station Mir. I've been up there for 160 days, but I didn't conduct any EVA [Extravehicular Activity] during that particular flight. I did conduct EVA. I did participate in EVA during Salyut 7 flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the 1983 flight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00754:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.417922050908047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as a mission specialist. Yes, I flew those missions as what we call an onboard engineer or mission specialist, being a civilian person, so during those missions I represented the RSC [Rocket Space Corporation] Energia. It's not exactly mission specialist; it's onboard engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about your flight to Mir, the 2B flight? How many days were you in orbit, and did you accomplish any space walks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was in the second mission, second flight to the Space Station Mir. I've been up there for 160 days, but I didn't conduct any EVA [Extravehicular Activity] during that particular flight. I did conduct EVA. I did participate in EVA during Salyut 7 flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the 1983 flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. During that EVA, we installed the solar arrays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me what areas of Mir operation are your management responsibilities focused on now?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00754:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.13102450100894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was in the second mission, second flight to the Space Station Mir. I've been up there for 160 days, but I didn't conduct any EVA [Extravehicular Activity] during that particular flight. I did conduct EVA. I did participate in EVA during Salyut 7 flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the 1983 flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. During that EVA, we installed the solar arrays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me what areas of Mir operation are your management responsibilities focused on now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Since I'm in charge of the office of the operations on Space Station Mir, part of my responsibility is the EVA. So what we do, we train our people on the different operations, on implementing different tasks. During the flight, from the Mission Control Center [MCC] in Moscow we control and monitor their activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How does your operational experience from your cosmonaut days help you make key management decisions that concern the crew and the EVA training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00754:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.9233605566766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. During that EVA, we installed the solar arrays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me what areas of Mir operation are your management responsibilities focused on now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Since I'm in charge of the office of the operations on Space Station Mir, part of my responsibility is the EVA. So what we do, we train our people on the different operations, on implementing different tasks. During the flight, from the Mission Control Center [MCC] in Moscow we control and monitor their activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How does your operational experience from your cosmonaut days help you make key management decisions that concern the crew and the EVA training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd like to add one more thing. We are in charge, in my office, not only of EVA; we do selection of cosmonauts. We also select them and design, if I may say so, the functionality of them in the orbit. We also design the flight simulators so that they would maintain their skills. Also we develop different means to support the activity of the crew members on board, using computers and other means. I hope I answered your questions, since being an astronaut, I was in orbit a few times and I understand the problems. I understand the challenges that they are facing, and thus I can make certain management decisions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how you integrated the American astronauts into the crew training flow and what changes, if any, you had to make to the training plan to accommodate your new partners in space for the EVA."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00754:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.966288840000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a souvenir, they bring it back to Earth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get one for your EVA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I have two gloves, and some of them I just give as a gift to my friends. One I gave to Mr. Glushko. Back then he was the general designer of Energia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much involvement do you or your group have in EVA training in the Neutral Buoyancy Laboratory in Russia? I'm not sure of the proper name for it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For each cosmonaut who's training to perform EVA, we have a standard program, standard plan. First, they learn, they study the space suit. That's about ten hours. Then they train in the pressure chambers and vacuum chambers, using the space suits. Then they are trained in the vacuum chambers. They train different procedures for air-lock procedures, and with scenarios of contingency situations. Then on the airplane with zero G [gravity], they also train cosmonauts for the flexibility to ingress or egress for the EVA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Orlan suit or the air lock?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00754:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.007764, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For each cosmonaut who's training to perform EVA, we have a standard program, standard plan. First, they learn, they study the space suit. That's about ten hours. Then they train in the pressure chambers and vacuum chambers, using the space suits. Then they are trained in the vacuum chambers. They train different procedures for air-lock procedures, and with scenarios of contingency situations. Then on the airplane with zero G [gravity], they also train cosmonauts for the flexibility to ingress or egress for the EVA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Orlan suit or the air lock?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both Orlan and air lock. Foot restraint training and, again, ingress and egress, to allow them to be more confident that in real life, in a real situation, they know what to do. And in parallel with that, they train in the higher lab. Then they conduct different what we call typical operations, translation along the difference paths in the station and bringing a crew member who's, for example, fainted and cannot perform the tasks, bring him inside. Opening hatches, bringing out the hardware, using the tools and things like that.\\n\\n Then only after that, they are trained to perform specific tasks for a specific mission. For example, bringing the solar arrays from the docking unit into a Kvant module. For each of those tasks, they conduct not many trainings, maybe two or three. Prior to that training, my office evaluates all those tests--how to achieve it, how to do it, how to perform it. Mr. Tsygankov is in charge of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Also we not only conduct those training and those evaluations especially in the hydro lab, we also do it on the special zero-G stands. Also in space suits in our office , where Mr. Tsygankov is in charge of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much ground support do you supply to the suit or the MCC during the Mir crew's training, EVA maintenance?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00754:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First of all, my first launch. You cannot compare it with anything in the world. Also another two events is the test of the first launcher Energia and the Buran, Space Shuttle Buran, which, in automatic mode, unmanned, performed two orbits and landed in a specific spot, without any glitch, without any problems. Those were the launchers Energia and the Space Shuttle Buran. Also another impression that affected me greatly besides [Yuri A.] Gagarin's first flight was the time when I was in the Mission Control Center ground station in Yevpatoria, the Crimea, the first docking of two Soyuz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you for all your insightful information. It's very helpful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're welcome. It helps our future cooperation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell him we look forward to hearing soon of his next accomplishments."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much sightseeing do you get to do here in the States?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00982:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.464060000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those are, I think, interesting things. I really enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Sandra if she had some questions or some thoughts to share?\n\nYou mentioned when you first started that one of the things you were doing, you were actually programming, early programming. We’ve talked about the difference in computers, but you were writing computer code."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I should correct that—actually sitting down and writing the code lines, I didn’t do that. What I did is I wrote down and told the programmers what equations to use and the steps to us, and then they translated those instructions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so you were writing the instructions, and then the women, or the human computers, would take it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And program the machines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and they would take it and put it on the machines?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00982:36", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.293400000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I should correct that—actually sitting down and writing the code lines, I didn’t do that. What I did is I wrote down and told the programmers what equations to use and the steps to us, and then they translated those instructions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so you were writing the instructions, and then the women, or the human computers, would take it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And program the machines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and they would take it and put it on the machines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty interesting. I was wondering exactly what you were doing to do that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00982:38", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 20.326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And program the machines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and they would take it and put it on the machines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty interesting. I was wondering exactly what you were doing to do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never really learned in my whole career how to write a computer code. I tried to worry more about the physics of what was going on and how to do that, it was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned a couple of people as you were going through—is there one or two people you feel had a significant impact on your career, or served as a mentor to teach you the insights of succeeding at the Center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00982:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. Actually, I passed the orals to get a Ph.D. and sort of got bogged down in writing a thesis, and then about that time, I got promoted to a branch chief, so that sort of went by the wayside. Sometimes, I wish I’d have finished that off. Not sure it would have made much difference. In your life, you’ve met a lot of Ph.D.s who are really smart, and you’ve met a lot of Ph.D.s who are really dumb, so a Ph.D. doesn’t open your doors, many. Depends what you’re after, and if you wanted to go into academics, you had to have a Ph.D. If you were not inclined to become a teacher or you were down a different path. I know many, in fact, some of the smartest people—smarter people—at Ames I ever met didn’t have Ph.D.s. Morrie Rubesin didn’t have a Ph.D."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You chose to stay in the area all these years, so did your family participate at some of the activities at Ames?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some, yes. Some, not too many, but some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Enough?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I wish I had probably had my wife more involved, but a lot of demands for time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. We all have lives full of wants more than we have time to do them, that’s for sure. Is there anything else that you could think of that you want to talk about, or any other projects, or anything that we might have missed over?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00982:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some, yes. Some, not too many, but some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Enough?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I wish I had probably had my wife more involved, but a lot of demands for time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. We all have lives full of wants more than we have time to do them, that’s for sure. Is there anything else that you could think of that you want to talk about, or any other projects, or anything that we might have missed over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I can’t think of anything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you for your hospitality."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00257:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 65.22154549116384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[I] know you’re busy with all the flights that are going up. I’d like to start by asking you what’s the role of the lead ISS flight director? Can you give us a summary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. The lead ISS flight director typically takes the requirements laid out by the Station Program, and they work with the Shuttle flight director to integrate an overall plan for the mission, because you’ve got two huge vehicles. They’re both independent, and you bring them together. You have to work as a team. The lead Station flight director tends to be the overall conductor, because now the focus of activities is on the Station. We run all the EVAs [Extravehicular Activities] out of the Station airlock. Most of the tasks are Station-related, so we do a lot of the discussion and the planning, assessments, and ops [operations] trades, with our team, and then make the recommendations to the program. Or tell them, “This is how we’re going to do it,” or, “You can do A or B, and this is what you gain or lose by each option.” So I’d call that in a nutshell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you become a flight director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was selected in 2000. So we’re the class of Y2K. Matt [Mathew R. Abbott, Shuttle flight director for STS-124] and I were both class of 2000."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you originally a Space Shuttle flight director, or were you a Station flight director?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00257:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 66.91282832351537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. The lead ISS flight director typically takes the requirements laid out by the Station Program, and they work with the Shuttle flight director to integrate an overall plan for the mission, because you’ve got two huge vehicles. They’re both independent, and you bring them together. You have to work as a team. The lead Station flight director tends to be the overall conductor, because now the focus of activities is on the Station. We run all the EVAs [Extravehicular Activities] out of the Station airlock. Most of the tasks are Station-related, so we do a lot of the discussion and the planning, assessments, and ops [operations] trades, with our team, and then make the recommendations to the program. Or tell them, “This is how we’re going to do it,” or, “You can do A or B, and this is what you gain or lose by each option.” So I’d call that in a nutshell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you become a flight director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was selected in 2000. So we’re the class of Y2K. Matt [Mathew R. Abbott, Shuttle flight director for STS-124] and I were both class of 2000."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you originally a Space Shuttle flight director, or were you a Station flight director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve been a Station flight director for my whole career. The grand plan was to start in Station flight director, and then after STS-124 flew in 2004, I was going to cross-train. The Columbia [STS-107] accident changed a lot of that. I ended up working the 1J mission for eight years before it flew. So I had a very long tenure with that mission, which is atypical for a Station flight director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give us some more information about that, in terms of your preflight experience on this mission?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00257:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 36.292132279845234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did, yes, he stayed about three hours I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Robert C.] Bob Dempsey. He was my orbit one flight director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours of sims do you end up doing before a crew ends up launching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In terms of integrated sims, it will vary anywhere from about 80 hours to maybe 115. The hours have come down over the years, trying to streamline the time and make sure that the hours that we do spend doing that are the most effective possible, and trying to keep the crews’ workloads down, because one of the drivers is their weekly workload and hourly load. So it’ll vary depending on the mission. But somewhere between 80 and 115."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours does a crew train, compared to how many hours they’re on orbit? Or how many hours do they spend training on the ground versus how many hours they’re spending in orbit? Do you know what that works out to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00257:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.546813644272476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Robert C.] Bob Dempsey. He was my orbit one flight director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours of sims do you end up doing before a crew ends up launching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In terms of integrated sims, it will vary anywhere from about 80 hours to maybe 115. The hours have come down over the years, trying to streamline the time and make sure that the hours that we do spend doing that are the most effective possible, and trying to keep the crews’ workloads down, because one of the drivers is their weekly workload and hourly load. So it’ll vary depending on the mission. But somewhere between 80 and 115."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours does a crew train, compared to how many hours they’re on orbit? Or how many hours do they spend training on the ground versus how many hours they’re spending in orbit? Do you know what that works out to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, from a gross perspective, we basically assign the crews one year before flight. They’re not training 40 hours a week. But if you think about it that way, they train for a year and they fly for ten days. So if you want to do spacewalks, typically the folks will train in the Neutral Buoyancy Lab five to seven hours for every hour of spacewalk that they conduct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s the one I could find. I couldn’t find the other question that I had, so thought I would ask. Do you want to talk about the flight itself? Actually we should probably talk about some of the delays. I understand there were delays because of the External Tanks, and then there was a delay, you were supposed to launch in April, but there was a delay because of some power issues with the Shuttle and Station. Or not."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00257:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 36.16312627141386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In terms of integrated sims, it will vary anywhere from about 80 hours to maybe 115. The hours have come down over the years, trying to streamline the time and make sure that the hours that we do spend doing that are the most effective possible, and trying to keep the crews’ workloads down, because one of the drivers is their weekly workload and hourly load. So it’ll vary depending on the mission. But somewhere between 80 and 115."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours does a crew train, compared to how many hours they’re on orbit? Or how many hours do they spend training on the ground versus how many hours they’re spending in orbit? Do you know what that works out to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, from a gross perspective, we basically assign the crews one year before flight. They’re not training 40 hours a week. But if you think about it that way, they train for a year and they fly for ten days. So if you want to do spacewalks, typically the folks will train in the Neutral Buoyancy Lab five to seven hours for every hour of spacewalk that they conduct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s the one I could find. I couldn’t find the other question that I had, so thought I would ask. Do you want to talk about the flight itself? Actually we should probably talk about some of the delays. I understand there were delays because of the External Tanks, and then there was a delay, you were supposed to launch in April, but there was a delay because of some power issues with the Shuttle and Station. Or not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re right, this is where the memory lapses are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could just talk in general about delays, and what impact that had on the flight, or if it really didn’t have much impact."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00257:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.905022949999998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lead team will be, I’ll say, 15. It’s 12 to 15 flight controllers, including the flight director. That’s just your front room. The flight controllers is just one aspect. You have the MER, the Mission Evaluation Room, so they have a whole bunch of people evaluating the systems. Then your program folks dealing with all the requirements. They have a cadre of folks there every day as well. So it’s a big group of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes it is. It is. Were there any lessons that you learned from this flight that you’ll take forward?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lessons that I learned. It taught me patience, and it continued to help me learn my prioritization skills. I figured, you can’t do it all, so you need to understand what has to be done and what can be put off. It continued to teach me that there’s nothing more exciting, fulfilling than working with a team of folks that are motivated by a common objective and wanting to see the job done. Continue to want to do that for as long as I can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you don’t mind, I’m going to ask Rebecca if she has any questions for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did your responsibilities stop? When they undocked, were you somewhat relieved of your first and foremost duties?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00257:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.450025499999997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lessons that I learned. It taught me patience, and it continued to help me learn my prioritization skills. I figured, you can’t do it all, so you need to understand what has to be done and what can be put off. It continued to teach me that there’s nothing more exciting, fulfilling than working with a team of folks that are motivated by a common objective and wanting to see the job done. Continue to want to do that for as long as I can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you don’t mind, I’m going to ask Rebecca if she has any questions for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did your responsibilities stop? When they undocked, were you somewhat relieved of your first and foremost duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When they undock, basically about three hours after undocking, we hand Space Station back to what we call the increment team. Then you stop sprinting, and then you go back to the marathon of Space Station, because we’re always up there. My team went off console about three days before the Shuttle actually landed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right when you first started, you used a phrase called ops trades. Could you share a little bit more about the trading off of the operations of when? You also mentioned your prioritization skills. How do you know that when you get down to those negotiations, that this is what’s got to be done over this, when both of them are so important? Can you give us a clue?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00257:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s fun. In a sense you’re a problem solver. You just figure it out. Or a puzzle solver, if you want to think about it that way. You got all the pieces out there, and you have to figure out how to put it together. The interesting thing is the picture is not on the front of the box. You end up designing the picture based on all the pieces that come together. Then in the end, it’s a beautiful thing called Space Station. So it’s pretty amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What’s your background?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My background. I got a degree in mechanical engineering. Then when I graduated from college [at the University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame, Indiana], I actually worked for Arthur Andersen for two years in consulting. Our social life was down here. A gal who worked in the Payload Operations Group was moving on to Space Station back in the Reston [Virginia] days, the early early days, [Space Station] Freedom. She’s like, “Oh, I think you’d really like working in payloads. Send in your resume, and I’ll have my boss interview you.” Literally, he picked my resume and interviewed me. I was on site a week later, two weeks later. It was crazy.\\n\\n When I first started in Payload Operations Branch, we were in the same building as the flight directors. I just remember going, “Wow, what a cool job.” You think of them as just these amazing people that just have so much knowledge. You don’t realize that you gain knowledge over time. I don’t really recall what year it was, but it was like, “I want to do that job.” So I worked at it till I was selected. It was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Glad you did. So it was fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will you keep working in this [position] until Space Station is finished?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00176:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 73.89473376656373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We wound up living in Clear Lake Forest Subdivision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a nice area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and what was really weird then when I realized it, that house was right on the water on Armand Bayou. It’s really called Mud Lake. Then it connects to Clear Lake and Taylor Lake. You know that bridge where the Hilton is? It goes under there. There’s only about nine houses. There’s really a right-angle bend, and there’s about six houses on this one street and there’s the three houses that we had. Our house was the one that’s right at the right angle.\\n\\n Right across was a vacant lot that for years and years was vacant so that’s how I had seen that house. I had stood on that lot and looked over there and said, “Oh, I really like that house.” It turned out it was that one. The house that Bill bought was the house that I had looked at that I liked. It took me a while to realize it was the same one, because I wasn’t as familiar with the area, and I didn’t know exactly where I was. Finally I realized it was the house I had always wanted when I’d been looking around. It was really funny. It was kind of sad though because the person who bought it was going to move here from San Francisco, I believe. He and his wife had moved here, and then their daughter got in a car accident. The mother went to go be with her and take care of her and everything. Finally they decided to sell; he stayed there for a year and then moved back to California, which was why they sold it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a shame."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of all the publicity? We’ve seen a lot of the articles about you and Bill, how he applied, didn’t get accepted, and you got accepted. There seemed to be a lot of focus on you, especially as a married couple. What did you think of all that press coverage?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00176:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.56740247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my officemate, okay, so I was on the cover of Redbook. Dan got to be on the cover of some military magazine, some Navy publication."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No comparison."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He wanted to consider that a comparison. So we called ourselves the cover office. It was so neat, too. When you got there, there were two desks in every office. This was before the office got huge-huge, and we were all crammed into every nook and cranny. This was when we all had the third floor of Building 4 North. You came in and your desk was there and your little calendar. Everything was all nice there. I remember I picked up the calendar of where I was supposed to go. I looked at it, and I didn’t have a clue what I was supposed to do. I couldn’t read any of it. It was all in NASA acronyms, and I had no idea what any of it meant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your first couple days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "July 5th, that morning we arrived there. They have your schedule on your desk. “Dan, do you know how to read this?”\\n\\n Oh, I forgot the funny story. In my interview week I had my eyes dilated for my eye exam just before I went for my interview with the selection committee. I remember I came out into the sunlight with my eyes dilated. I couldn’t read where I was supposed to go for my interview. I didn’t want to be late for my interview. I remember stopping this person and saying, “Excuse me. Could you read this for me?” I always wondered who that person was, because I didn’t realize till I got outside that I didn’t know where I was going. I’d never had my eyes dilated before. So I didn’t know that you wouldn’t be able to read after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s so painful."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00176:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.7415583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He wanted to consider that a comparison. So we called ourselves the cover office. It was so neat, too. When you got there, there were two desks in every office. This was before the office got huge-huge, and we were all crammed into every nook and cranny. This was when we all had the third floor of Building 4 North. You came in and your desk was there and your little calendar. Everything was all nice there. I remember I picked up the calendar of where I was supposed to go. I looked at it, and I didn’t have a clue what I was supposed to do. I couldn’t read any of it. It was all in NASA acronyms, and I had no idea what any of it meant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your first couple days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "July 5th, that morning we arrived there. They have your schedule on your desk. “Dan, do you know how to read this?”\\n\\n Oh, I forgot the funny story. In my interview week I had my eyes dilated for my eye exam just before I went for my interview with the selection committee. I remember I came out into the sunlight with my eyes dilated. I couldn’t read where I was supposed to go for my interview. I didn’t want to be late for my interview. I remember stopping this person and saying, “Excuse me. Could you read this for me?” I always wondered who that person was, because I didn’t realize till I got outside that I didn’t know where I was going. I’d never had my eyes dilated before. So I didn’t know that you wouldn’t be able to read after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s so painful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, so Dan and I shared an office. The cover office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the ’80 class came in did you guys have more officemates at that point?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00176:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.157287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "July 5th, that morning we arrived there. They have your schedule on your desk. “Dan, do you know how to read this?”\\n\\n Oh, I forgot the funny story. In my interview week I had my eyes dilated for my eye exam just before I went for my interview with the selection committee. I remember I came out into the sunlight with my eyes dilated. I couldn’t read where I was supposed to go for my interview. I didn’t want to be late for my interview. I remember stopping this person and saying, “Excuse me. Could you read this for me?” I always wondered who that person was, because I didn’t realize till I got outside that I didn’t know where I was going. I’d never had my eyes dilated before. So I didn’t know that you wouldn’t be able to read after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s so painful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, so Dan and I shared an office. The cover office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the ’80 class came in did you guys have more officemates at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember how that all worked out, come to think of it. I think we slowly had more people in. Eventually we wound up getting the whole upper third floor. I think originally we didn’t have the whole third floor. We kept expanding. I don’t remember all the details of exactly how that all worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your class was called the Thirty-Five New Guys. I’ve heard that Judy Resnik had some involvement with that and the T-shirt."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00176:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.84143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, so Dan and I shared an office. The cover office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the ’80 class came in did you guys have more officemates at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember how that all worked out, come to think of it. I think we slowly had more people in. Eventually we wound up getting the whole upper third floor. I think originally we didn’t have the whole third floor. We kept expanding. I don’t remember all the details of exactly how that all worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your class was called the Thirty-Five New Guys. I’ve heard that Judy Resnik had some involvement with that and the T-shirt."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, remember she and Jim arrived early. Jim was actually a little bit of an artist. Has anyone of our group shown you our shirts?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. You’ll have to bring one in."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00176:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.712699999999998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember how that all worked out, come to think of it. I think we slowly had more people in. Eventually we wound up getting the whole upper third floor. I think originally we didn’t have the whole third floor. We kept expanding. I don’t remember all the details of exactly how that all worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your class was called the Thirty-Five New Guys. I’ve heard that Judy Resnik had some involvement with that and the T-shirt."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, remember she and Jim arrived early. Jim was actually a little bit of an artist. Has anyone of our group shown you our shirts?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. You’ll have to bring one in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll have to bring one to you. They designed a Shuttle. There’s 35 people all over the Shuttle: on the outside, EVA, hanging from the arm. We have the blue version and the red version of this shirt. So they were the ones who did all of that. Also because they got here early, they tried to sequester better office stuff than we did.\\n\\n I remember Judy had this—she and Jim were in an office together. They had gotten this red recliner chair. I used to keep it after the Challenger accident. I always made sure that chair stayed. It’s still up in the office. Because I went on a seven-year leave of absence, I told a few people the story that that was a chair that somehow Judy managed to get. You know how it is in an office where you all get a certain amount of equipment, and somebody else has something way fancier than everybody else. That chair is still up. I’m not sure which office it’s in right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You guys will have to get a little marker or something to put on there."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00176:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 25, "return_to_go": 31.903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, remember she and Jim arrived early. Jim was actually a little bit of an artist. Has anyone of our group shown you our shirts?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. You’ll have to bring one in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll have to bring one to you. They designed a Shuttle. There’s 35 people all over the Shuttle: on the outside, EVA, hanging from the arm. We have the blue version and the red version of this shirt. So they were the ones who did all of that. Also because they got here early, they tried to sequester better office stuff than we did.\\n\\n I remember Judy had this—she and Jim were in an office together. They had gotten this red recliner chair. I used to keep it after the Challenger accident. I always made sure that chair stayed. It’s still up in the office. Because I went on a seven-year leave of absence, I told a few people the story that that was a chair that somehow Judy managed to get. You know how it is in an office where you all get a certain amount of equipment, and somebody else has something way fancier than everybody else. That chair is still up. I’m not sure which office it’s in right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You guys will have to get a little marker or something to put on there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a red leather recliner. Burgundy, not bright red."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now I’m looking at our clock. I notice your watch is a little ahead. It’s about a quarter to. Do you want to keep going or you want to stop?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.89039951798884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Glad to be here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know how busy you’ve been, so thank you very much. I have a couple of questions for you about your preflight experience that we didn’t cover last time. Did you continue to work as an ER [Emergency Room] doctor once you came to Houston or was that something you pretty much gave up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the first year a little bit, very little bit. The group I belonged to in Los Angeles [California] had a hospital in—let me think where was it? Tampa [Florida], I believe. So I did a few ER shifts, but it was just too difficult to try to do both. Being in a visible position, I just felt that was probably not a good thing to do. I had so much to learn. So that pretty quickly stopped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had read that you were in charge of medical ops for the first orbital test flights. Can you talk about that assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I wasn’t in charge of medical ops. What they did was they took all the doctors in the office, and we were sent to each of the launch and landing sites. So for STS-1, I was actually out at White Sands [Northrup Strip, New Mexico]. We had the doctors at KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida], White Sands, and Edwards [Air Force Base, California] for the full duration of the mission. We participated in exercises like Mode 8s, if the Shuttle goes off the end of the runway and you have to rescue the crew. Worked with the PJs from the military, which are the paramedic jumpers, but I wasn’t in charge of it. I just participated in all of that, as did all of the doctors in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you come up with a list of how you might save the crew, how you would get into the Orbiter, and what sort of things you might encounter? Did you come up with checklists and things like that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.21316806308483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we really didn’t have checklists. It’s a lot like EMTs [Emergency Medical Technicians]. The rescue folks who are trained to do that in all kinds of situations would actually do the actual rescuing or bringing the crew out. We were there to provide medical assistance and to answer any questions they’d have. We practiced things like which way the wind was blowing, because you were worried about nitrazine and some of the fluids that are on board the Shuttle harming the rescue workers and crew. So we were more there in an advisory capacity. If there were an accident to be the link to Houston, to let people know what was going on. We never really got into the mode of post accident, what would happen. That was how more we envisioned the role, I think, was just being the liaison between the rescue folks and NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you simulate those possibilities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I was out at White Sands where we did a Mode 8. The helicopters came in, and we practiced taking the crew away and flying the helicopters. I talked with the PJs to tell them a bit about the Shuttle and what to expect, if they had to go inside. Then I was there for the entire STS-1 flight. I was there probably about three or four days before and then for the entire flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you had practiced emergency medicine, did you feel like you offered advice to some of the other folks who hadn’t practiced like [M.] Rhea Seddon or Jim [James P.] Bagian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she was a surgeon, so she’s well versed in all those kind of things. No, I think we were all equally well trained and ready for those things. I don’t think we particularly talked among ourselves about how to do it. I think it was left to each of us to figure out how to do it ourselves, which is kind of the way things were in those days. Everybody was expected to perform, and you figured out what you needed to know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just sounds like a very interesting assignment."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.57018673676092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I was out at White Sands where we did a Mode 8. The helicopters came in, and we practiced taking the crew away and flying the helicopters. I talked with the PJs to tell them a bit about the Shuttle and what to expect, if they had to go inside. Then I was there for the entire STS-1 flight. I was there probably about three or four days before and then for the entire flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you had practiced emergency medicine, did you feel like you offered advice to some of the other folks who hadn’t practiced like [M.] Rhea Seddon or Jim [James P.] Bagian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she was a surgeon, so she’s well versed in all those kind of things. No, I think we were all equally well trained and ready for those things. I don’t think we particularly talked among ourselves about how to do it. I think it was left to each of us to figure out how to do it ourselves, which is kind of the way things were in those days. Everybody was expected to perform, and you figured out what you needed to know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just sounds like a very interesting assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh it was. It was really fun to see how all that worked and very educational. Then they stopped doing that. I think STS-4 was probably the last one. I was at Kennedy for STS-4 the entire time. I was at Edwards for STS-2 and then White Sands for STS-1 and 3."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, interesting. So did you get to see the crew land the Orbiter at Northrup Strip?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.1890963741788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she was a surgeon, so she’s well versed in all those kind of things. No, I think we were all equally well trained and ready for those things. I don’t think we particularly talked among ourselves about how to do it. I think it was left to each of us to figure out how to do it ourselves, which is kind of the way things were in those days. Everybody was expected to perform, and you figured out what you needed to know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just sounds like a very interesting assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh it was. It was really fun to see how all that worked and very educational. Then they stopped doing that. I think STS-4 was probably the last one. I was at Kennedy for STS-4 the entire time. I was at Edwards for STS-2 and then White Sands for STS-1 and 3."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, interesting. So did you get to see the crew land the Orbiter at Northrup Strip?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the one and only time. It was definitely an interesting time. Of course it went well, so there was no need for a Mode 8 or medical things like that. That all went very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s interesting. I know we talked a little bit about Bill last time. You were the first married couple in the Astronaut Office. Do you think that had any impact on your career or your experiences?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 29.098995971309776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh it was. It was really fun to see how all that worked and very educational. Then they stopped doing that. I think STS-4 was probably the last one. I was at Kennedy for STS-4 the entire time. I was at Edwards for STS-2 and then White Sands for STS-1 and 3."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, interesting. So did you get to see the crew land the Orbiter at Northrup Strip?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the one and only time. It was definitely an interesting time. Of course it went well, so there was no need for a Mode 8 or medical things like that. That all went very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s interesting. I know we talked a little bit about Bill last time. You were the first married couple in the Astronaut Office. Do you think that had any impact on your career or your experiences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think it had an impact on my career or anything. There was a lot of attention given to it when he was first selected. It was like a lot more interest in the media. We had parallel interests from the time we met, which is probably one reason we were attracted to each other. So it was nice to have somebody who really understood exactly how the office worked, but it was more of a personal benefit than a professional benefit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Rhea Seddon decided that she was going to marry Hoot [Robert L.] Gibson, did you offer her any advice in terms of how to deal with all the media interest?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.99888441256642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the one and only time. It was definitely an interesting time. Of course it went well, so there was no need for a Mode 8 or medical things like that. That all went very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s interesting. I know we talked a little bit about Bill last time. You were the first married couple in the Astronaut Office. Do you think that had any impact on your career or your experiences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think it had an impact on my career or anything. There was a lot of attention given to it when he was first selected. It was like a lot more interest in the media. We had parallel interests from the time we met, which is probably one reason we were attracted to each other. So it was nice to have somebody who really understood exactly how the office worked, but it was more of a personal benefit than a professional benefit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Rhea Seddon decided that she was going to marry Hoot [Robert L.] Gibson, did you offer her any advice in terms of how to deal with all the media interest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Rhea was well versed in how to do that. She didn’t need any advice from me. It was fine. Right in my closet at home I have this picture of the four of us, Bill and me and Hoot and Rhea and our two babies. It was a cute picture. I think we were both being interviewed for one of the morning shows or something and then someone shot that picture of us as we were sitting there. It was cute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh that’s funny. We talked to her actually. She was talking about how her son introduces himself as an astrotot. I suppose you have two astrotots as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 31.109871569518244, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think it had an impact on my career or anything. There was a lot of attention given to it when he was first selected. It was like a lot more interest in the media. We had parallel interests from the time we met, which is probably one reason we were attracted to each other. So it was nice to have somebody who really understood exactly how the office worked, but it was more of a personal benefit than a professional benefit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Rhea Seddon decided that she was going to marry Hoot [Robert L.] Gibson, did you offer her any advice in terms of how to deal with all the media interest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Rhea was well versed in how to do that. She didn’t need any advice from me. It was fine. Right in my closet at home I have this picture of the four of us, Bill and me and Hoot and Rhea and our two babies. It was a cute picture. I think we were both being interviewed for one of the morning shows or something and then someone shot that picture of us as we were sitting there. It was cute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh that’s funny. We talked to her actually. She was talking about how her son introduces himself as an astrotot. I suppose you have two astrotots as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I totally embarrass my younger daughter when I say, “Well, half of your DNA was in space.” She goes, “Mom!” At least when she was younger, she would get embarrassed. She’s probably proud of it now. There’s a very small number of people who both parents have been in space. Kara gets that distinction, my youngest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it’s an interesting title, I hadn’t read about it before. Last time you had also talked about the personal hygiene kit and the Nivea cream that you had put in there. What else was in the personal hygiene kit for the women? Did you talk about other things that would go in it at the time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 30.12207952168694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Rhea was well versed in how to do that. She didn’t need any advice from me. It was fine. Right in my closet at home I have this picture of the four of us, Bill and me and Hoot and Rhea and our two babies. It was a cute picture. I think we were both being interviewed for one of the morning shows or something and then someone shot that picture of us as we were sitting there. It was cute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh that’s funny. We talked to her actually. She was talking about how her son introduces himself as an astrotot. I suppose you have two astrotots as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I totally embarrass my younger daughter when I say, “Well, half of your DNA was in space.” She goes, “Mom!” At least when she was younger, she would get embarrassed. She’s probably proud of it now. There’s a very small number of people who both parents have been in space. Kara gets that distinction, my youngest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it’s an interesting title, I hadn’t read about it before. Last time you had also talked about the personal hygiene kit and the Nivea cream that you had put in there. What else was in the personal hygiene kit for the women? Did you talk about other things that would go in it at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I canvassed them and asked what things they wanted. It’s a pretty diverse group there from Judy [Judith A. Resnik] to Shannon [W. Lucid]. So some people didn’t care at all. I think there was a little bit of makeup that went in there, probably some mascara. I honestly don’t remember. I’d have to go back and check, but we really didn’t have a lot of extra things. We just added things that were appropriate for women. Some creams and a little bit of makeup, and that’s about all I can remember that we added that was different than what was already there for the guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about feminine hygiene products? Was that something that you dealt with at all?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.531290232719, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was very rare for us to get together and discuss things and have a consensus. I don’t remember. We would have some social get-togethers once in a while, but I don’t really remember us ever getting together that much and discussing issues unique to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. That says a lot actually."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Carolyn [L.] Huntoon was of course available. She was assigned to be our mentor, someone we could go to if we had issues or problems. I don’t think any of the issues we faced were that much different from the guys. Wondering how you were doing, when were you going to fly. I think it was more issues unique to being an astronaut than specifically being female."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s really interesting. So you feel like you were treated particularly equal in the Astronaut Office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really do. I think NASA had made the commitment to accept women, and they were very accepting. They really tried very hard to develop the extra small EMU [Extravehicular Mobility Unit]. A lot of the development effort was put into it. I think I discussed that last time. I was involved in a lot of that early work. I think only after we just ran into a lot of technical problems and then the cost of it was going to be so great that they decided to cancel that. I think we were all treated very fairly. If anything I think the guys felt we got too much attention compared to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s funny that you say that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 39.479211369687775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Carolyn [L.] Huntoon was of course available. She was assigned to be our mentor, someone we could go to if we had issues or problems. I don’t think any of the issues we faced were that much different from the guys. Wondering how you were doing, when were you going to fly. I think it was more issues unique to being an astronaut than specifically being female."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s really interesting. So you feel like you were treated particularly equal in the Astronaut Office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really do. I think NASA had made the commitment to accept women, and they were very accepting. They really tried very hard to develop the extra small EMU [Extravehicular Mobility Unit]. A lot of the development effort was put into it. I think I discussed that last time. I was involved in a lot of that early work. I think only after we just ran into a lot of technical problems and then the cost of it was going to be so great that they decided to cancel that. I think we were all treated very fairly. If anything I think the guys felt we got too much attention compared to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s funny that you say that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would always make comments like, “Here, let me carry your bags for you.” But it was all just teasing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just for fun."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 42.754679299653084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really do. I think NASA had made the commitment to accept women, and they were very accepting. They really tried very hard to develop the extra small EMU [Extravehicular Mobility Unit]. A lot of the development effort was put into it. I think I discussed that last time. I was involved in a lot of that early work. I think only after we just ran into a lot of technical problems and then the cost of it was going to be so great that they decided to cancel that. I think we were all treated very fairly. If anything I think the guys felt we got too much attention compared to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s funny that you say that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would always make comments like, “Here, let me carry your bags for you.” But it was all just teasing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just for fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When it came to being treated professionally, sims [simulations], and as CapComs and our various support roles, I never felt like we weren’t wanted. I have to say that even when I was in medical school, that was actually a little probably more difficult, particularly around some of the surgeons at that time. It was just at a cusp. I read an interesting article recently about the number of women in medical school classes around that time, and mine was very typical. We were probably like 15 in a class of 150. You would encounter little things at that point. There weren’t that many women in medicine. Now it’s 50-50. I might have told you that story where I was working in the emergency room and there was a male nurse, a really big tall guy. No matter how many times I would say I was Dr. Fisher and he was the nurse, they kept looking at him. He was the doctor, and I was the nurse. Finally we just joked about it. I just said, “Go ahead, just be the doctor. Tell them what they want.” It was just funny. Those kind of things happened a lot more in medicine actually than when I came to NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. That’s good for NASA."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 34.243220545061014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s hard though. It’s a tough sell, when you see these guys making millions of dollars. Most rocket scientists don’t make anywhere near that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s true, that’s true. Do you ever do any work with Sally Ride and her science camp?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She asked me haven’t. I told her I’m happy to; I’m willing to do that. I don’t know how she goes about who she asks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s an interesting concept. I wanted to ask you about the diaper concept. You had mentioned that in the last interview as well about using diapers for women for urine collection. Were you involved at all in the testing of that product before you flew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all were. They gave us diapers, and we were supposed to go home and use them. Have you ever tried—after years and years of potty training—to lay on the floor in a seat with your seat laid back so you’d simulate being on the launch pad? It is not easy to do.\\n\\n You have to overcome all these inhibitions you have. But by the time you’re out on the pad for three hours you’re going to go. Who wants to be uncomfortable in your flight into space? No matter if you absolutely drank nothing the morning of launch, absolutely nothing, just because of that position and the blood in your legs pooling, you’re going to have to go to the bathroom.\\n\\n Now it used to be that guys had a condom thing that they would put on that’s hooked to a tube. That’s what they used in all the early flights, but they had a couple of malfunctions of those, which that could be a gigantic mess. So now they just went unisex; everybody wears the same thing and for EVAs [Extravehicular Activity] too. You’re in a suit six or seven hours, plus all that prebreathe time. Can’t imagine that you don’t have to go to the bathroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make any suggestions for changes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 44.49001446510426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The guy who developed this, what was his name? I’m sure you can find out if you call the Space and Life Sciences Division. He developed that really absorbent polymer which was what led to all the baby diapers that we now have whatever that stuff is that absorbs it. It was his research that led to—for us—all these billions probably of diapers we now have for babies that are so absorbent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s an interesting concept. I wanted to ask you when they made the announcement for the first crews that included people from your class, so STS-7, 8, and 9, was there any discussion amongst the six of you about who might go first? And when you heard that Sally Ride was going to be the first woman in space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. We all knew that was coming up eventually. I don’t think it was something you discussed. You just were aware of it. To me it was apparent that Sally was a front-runner because of the positions they put her in. They put her to be a CapCom and put her to do different things so I guess I wasn’t really surprised."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of competition amongst your class for flights at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think everybody wants to fly first. Everybody wanted to fly and get into space as soon as you can. But that’s also tempered with hey, I’m really lucky to be here, doesn’t matter if I’m first or last. Other than Sally, I don’t think anyone remembers who flew first and who flew last in our class, unless somebody tells you. I think Shannon was the last woman, and yet look how she had the endurance record on Mir for so long. I don’t know if she still does. I lose track of all those kind of things.\\n\\n At the time those things seem like big deals but you need to keep things in perspective. I do think it’s interesting that the first three women that flew didn’t have children and the last three women that flew had children so I don’t know if that was a factor. I don’t think it was performance, because everybody did pretty good jobs, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren’t surprised?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 49.4333494056714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. We all knew that was coming up eventually. I don’t think it was something you discussed. You just were aware of it. To me it was apparent that Sally was a front-runner because of the positions they put her in. They put her to be a CapCom and put her to do different things so I guess I wasn’t really surprised."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of competition amongst your class for flights at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think everybody wants to fly first. Everybody wanted to fly and get into space as soon as you can. But that’s also tempered with hey, I’m really lucky to be here, doesn’t matter if I’m first or last. Other than Sally, I don’t think anyone remembers who flew first and who flew last in our class, unless somebody tells you. I think Shannon was the last woman, and yet look how she had the endurance record on Mir for so long. I don’t know if she still does. I lose track of all those kind of things.\\n\\n At the time those things seem like big deals but you need to keep things in perspective. I do think it’s interesting that the first three women that flew didn’t have children and the last three women that flew had children so I don’t know if that was a factor. I don’t think it was performance, because everybody did pretty good jobs, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren’t surprised?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just interesting. No, I wasn’t surprised."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned last time that you were working at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] with Sally for her flight. Were you there for the launch of STS-7?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 52.70372156185711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think everybody wants to fly first. Everybody wanted to fly and get into space as soon as you can. But that’s also tempered with hey, I’m really lucky to be here, doesn’t matter if I’m first or last. Other than Sally, I don’t think anyone remembers who flew first and who flew last in our class, unless somebody tells you. I think Shannon was the last woman, and yet look how she had the endurance record on Mir for so long. I don’t know if she still does. I lose track of all those kind of things.\\n\\n At the time those things seem like big deals but you need to keep things in perspective. I do think it’s interesting that the first three women that flew didn’t have children and the last three women that flew had children so I don’t know if that was a factor. I don’t think it was performance, because everybody did pretty good jobs, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren’t surprised?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just interesting. No, I wasn’t surprised."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned last time that you were working at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] with Sally for her flight. Were you there for the launch of STS-7?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes, I was there for the launch, because I was the lead Cape Crusader. I was eight months pregnant at the time, so it was a definite difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that day? Is there anything that stands out about that time for the launch of Sally’s mission?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 58.55969062428567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just interesting. No, I wasn’t surprised."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned last time that you were working at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] with Sally for her flight. Were you there for the launch of STS-7?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes, I was there for the launch, because I was the lead Cape Crusader. I was eight months pregnant at the time, so it was a definite difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that day? Is there anything that stands out about that time for the launch of Sally’s mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, for some reason I remember more the time we were doing the payload testing together. It’s just strange what things stick in your mind more than others. The launch itself, I was there doing my job so I don’t even remember. Because I was pregnant, I wasn’t the person who helped them strap in so I wasn’t out there. I was doing one of the shifts, where we did the cockpit configuration or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you actually get to see it lift off the pad?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 60.62187847142852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes, I was there for the launch, because I was the lead Cape Crusader. I was eight months pregnant at the time, so it was a definite difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that day? Is there anything that stands out about that time for the launch of Sally’s mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, for some reason I remember more the time we were doing the payload testing together. It’s just strange what things stick in your mind more than others. The launch itself, I was there doing my job so I don’t even remember. Because I was pregnant, I wasn’t the person who helped them strap in so I wasn’t out there. I was doing one of the shifts, where we did the cockpit configuration or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you actually get to see it lift off the pad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I was at the roof of the LCC [Launch Control Center]. All of us that worked at the Cape would always go there and be there to be ready to help in case there was a problem with families. That was of course before [STS]-51L [the Challenger accident] so at that time there really wasn’t a formal plan for what to do if there was an accident. We learned our lessons after 51-L and now have a much more tightly controlled environment. At that time we were just there ready to help if there was a problem, but there was no plan of what we would do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came to the Center did you have contact with other professional women who worked at JSC like Ivy [F.] Hooks or Rita [M.] Rapp?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 79.6584034010494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Like I said, we were—and I don’t mean that in a bad way—we were just left on our own. I see a lot more intentional mentoring now. Also it’s probably really important—not that it wasn’t important then—but it’s really important now as you get ready to go do these six-month-long missions. There’s a great deal more hardship in terms of the traveling and training for ISS. Your training is so long, and you’re gone so long. So I think there’s a lot more mentoring of folks to be sure that they’re ready for what they’re getting into.\\n\\n It was more like we were selected and you were expected to do well and that’s it. Kind of the same as it was in medical school, too. I think now they tend to do a little more mentoring of medical students as well. Kind of watching out, because it’s a pretty difficult time as well. It used to be, “We picked these people that are talented.” But just because you have good grades and everything doesn’t necessarily mean you’re ready for all of that. I think now maybe in a lot of those areas they do a little bit more mentoring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had read an article in the New York Times. I don’t know, from 1980. You said that the only trouble that the female AsCans [Astronaut Candidates] seemed to have were getting the clothes to fit. Can you talk about that? I’m assuming you meant the flight suits."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was probably just joking—just getting flight suits that weren’t big and baggy and stuff. They wound up having ours special-made."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were cut for men."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was probably also referring to the EMU, because at the time in 1980 I was still doing WETF [Weightless Environment Training Facility] runs in Pete [Charles] Conrad’s A7LB Moon suit, which was like being in a big balloon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I think you had talked about that last time, the difficulty that you had."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 24, "return_to_go": 87.398226001166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was probably just joking—just getting flight suits that weren’t big and baggy and stuff. They wound up having ours special-made."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were cut for men."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was probably also referring to the EMU, because at the time in 1980 I was still doing WETF [Weightless Environment Training Facility] runs in Pete [Charles] Conrad’s A7LB Moon suit, which was like being in a big balloon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I think you had talked about that last time, the difficulty that you had."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of my officemates right now was an EVA trainer, and he was telling me how for the smaller women if you can get a good suit fit, they can do just as well, but if you don’t have a good suit fit, you’re lost. That’s it. You just cannot do things if you don’t have a good fit. That’s true for male and female, but it’s just harder to get a good fit. So it was definitely a struggle. We’ve learned so much with all the EVAs we’ve done in building the Space Station which we just did not have that experience back when I came."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought we would turn our attention to your flight, STS-51A. You had told us about how you had been selected maybe about two weeks before you gave birth."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 80.00339277726867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was neat. Although I think I told you that I find it ironic that when I was gone a lot I get a mother of the year award but when I stay home and take a seven-year leave of absence to be with my girls there’s no award. But it’s come in handy. I can show it to the girls and say, “See? I got a mother of the year award. So don’t argue with me.” It’s just funny. It was neat. Susan Lucci was in the group that I was with, and there was a female governor of Kentucky at the time. It was an interesting group. A fun trip to New York [City, New York]. It’s some group based in New York City that makes those selections. I don’t know if they still do it or not. Probably do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you win that award after your flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was the Mother’s Day after I flew. I flew in November, so that following Mother’s Day, the following May."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in this book Starring Mothers: [30 Portraits of Accomplished Women by Jill Barber]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was really fun. I remember Jill. It was really fun. I thought it was a really interesting book. That was a fun picture with Kristin and the mockup over in Building 9. I thought she did a really nice job, back in those days where people were trying to say yes you can work and you can have children too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you write the piece that was in there? Or was that an interview?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00177:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 88.89265864140964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was the Mother’s Day after I flew. I flew in November, so that following Mother’s Day, the following May."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in this book Starring Mothers: [30 Portraits of Accomplished Women by Jill Barber]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was really fun. I remember Jill. It was really fun. I thought it was a really interesting book. That was a fun picture with Kristin and the mockup over in Building 9. I thought she did a really nice job, back in those days where people were trying to say yes you can work and you can have children too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you write the piece that was in there? Or was that an interview?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t write it, no, that was her interview. I think if I recall correctly she sent copies and let you review it for accuracy, which I always appreciate and think is nice when people do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it’s always important; don’t want to get something wrong. Tell us about the crew relationship for this mission."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 30.482995319766715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so. But then I went on to San Francisco where they had the staging there. So after I kind of, after I said yes to this lady and filled out a few forms, I never heard from the Peace Corps again. I guess things were a little looser back then. And in fact, I didn't know how I was supposed to get to California. And they said, well, buy a ticket and then send us a bill and we'll reimburse you. So that's what I did, they said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they did give you a date to show up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they said show up on July 4th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This must be one of the longest recruitments ever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I flew to San Francisco on the 4th of July and I said to myself, they won't be doing anything on the 4th of July, anything official. And so a friend from graduate school met me and we spent the day looking around San Francisco and all this kind of stuff. So I walked into the hotel like 8:00 at night and went in this meeting room. And there were all these other new recruits who had spent the whole day in meetings. And it it turned out, well, what we figured out was that kind of everything was done by contractors, and they were getting paid time and a half or double time for working on holidays. So they had all these meetings on the 4th.\n\nSo we were there for about two days to get our shots and, you know, get some orientations and stuff. And his name was, I forget his first name. [Berenado] Vunibobo. He then was at the U.N., I believe, but he was some kind of a minister or something in the Fiji government, so he was there to escort us down. So I sat by him on the plane on the way down. So that's how I got in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So yeah. So that was, like I said, it was pretty long recruitment. You have second thoughts at any time in there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.47324460873349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, after I said, after I said I'd do it, then I got pretty gung ho. Well, so I guess one of the questions on here was, what was the first thing you did when you found out you were going to Fiji? First thing I did was I went to the library and looked at the encyclopedia and then the National Geographics, because I didn't know what Fijians looked like or really anything about it other than it was down there in the South Pacific. So then, as now, it seems like the only way you can arrive in Fiji is in the middle of the night or early morning. I mean, it's always dark when you, whenever I've gone there, I haven't been there that many times. But it seems like you're always getting there at 4:00 in the morning or something, some weird time. So I guess one of the questions was, what happened when you first got there or whatever?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Anything memorable about when you first hit the ground there in Fiji. How'd you feel and did anything impress you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first hit the ground, it was dark and so the Peace Corps met us there with a few rental cars and stuff. And I remember almost killing myself on that because I, you know, tried to get in on the wrong, on the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The wrong side?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wrong side of the car and hit the steering wheel on my way in. And then they took us to, uh, I was going to say the Coconut Inn, but I'm not sure that's around there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that like a boarding house?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 36.081382898592764, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first hit the ground, it was dark and so the Peace Corps met us there with a few rental cars and stuff. And I remember almost killing myself on that because I, you know, tried to get in on the wrong, on the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The wrong side?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wrong side of the car and hit the steering wheel on my way in. And then they took us to, uh, I was going to say the Coconut Inn, but I'm not sure that's around there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that like a boarding house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Next to a river?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 33.423758776214186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wrong side of the car and hit the steering wheel on my way in. And then they took us to, uh, I was going to say the Coconut Inn, but I'm not sure that's around there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that like a boarding house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Next to a river?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it was run by an American guy who'd married a Fijian, and which was interesting in that he, I don't know how he'd gotten to Fiji, but he'd been in Fiji and he met his future wife and they were planning to come to the United States. And then he found that he couldn't legally get married. They wanted to come back and get married in the United States, and back then they couldn't legally get married in Fiji. I mean, in Fiji, in Tennessee, to a black woman. And so he said, to hell with this, we're going back to Fiji. So he was running this Coconut Inn.\n\nBut anyhow, the first thing I remember then is that they had a kava ceremony. And, you know, you're walking. What I remember myself thinking, you know, staggering off the plane after not sleeping. And then it's dark and you're here and you're plopped down on a mat and they're stirring up this muddy water and stuff and, you know, give you some, you know. I distinctly remember thinking, if I drink this, I'm in. I mean, I'm here for two years. I mean, it's, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they give you any kind of warning about that ahead of time or tell you about kava?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.481113818341992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And like the guy that was the chief, he had a job as an editor of the Fiji Times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no kidding?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but anyhow, we didn't know all this at the time. So we're kind of standing around and this little guy walks up, and he says to me, Otis Elevators. I said, huh? Otis Elevators? And he points at his shirt and it says Otis on there. And it turned out he was the Otis Elevator repairman for the country of Fiji, which at that time had one elevator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say, he couldn't have been very busy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some building in Suva had like, you know, it's five stories or something. So he was the guy who kept the elevators running. Then another guy comes, walks up, and he goes, what's this about the Watergate? And so, uh. You know, I was expecting, you know, how do you like the food or something?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And to be in a Fijian village."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.86790424260221, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but anyhow, we didn't know all this at the time. So we're kind of standing around and this little guy walks up, and he says to me, Otis Elevators. I said, huh? Otis Elevators? And he points at his shirt and it says Otis on there. And it turned out he was the Otis Elevator repairman for the country of Fiji, which at that time had one elevator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say, he couldn't have been very busy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some building in Suva had like, you know, it's five stories or something. So he was the guy who kept the elevators running. Then another guy comes, walks up, and he goes, what's this about the Watergate? And so, uh. You know, I was expecting, you know, how do you like the food or something?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And to be in a Fijian village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to be quizzed about current affairs in the United States. That was probably surprising."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.519893602891347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some building in Suva had like, you know, it's five stories or something. So he was the guy who kept the elevators running. Then another guy comes, walks up, and he goes, what's this about the Watergate? And so, uh. You know, I was expecting, you know, how do you like the food or something?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And to be in a Fijian village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to be quizzed about current affairs in the United States. That was probably surprising."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, that was surprising to me. And I guess the other thing I would say about the village, that kind of occurred to me at the time was, uh, then I guess there were a couple of houses that had electricity. They didn't have any running water, anybody. So we had outdoor toilets and stuff. I guess one thing was that it hadn't occurred to me that you could have water trap toilets outside, you know, because not coming from places where it froze, you assumed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was an advancement from where you grew up."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 29.46654844765705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to be quizzed about current affairs in the United States. That was probably surprising."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, that was surprising to me. And I guess the other thing I would say about the village, that kind of occurred to me at the time was, uh, then I guess there were a couple of houses that had electricity. They didn't have any running water, anybody. So we had outdoor toilets and stuff. I guess one thing was that it hadn't occurred to me that you could have water trap toilets outside, you know, because not coming from places where it froze, you assumed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was an advancement from where you grew up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And what I decided was that in many ways, kind of the, I don't know what the measurement is. The distance between where I grew up and the village in Fiji was in a lot of dimensions, smaller than from where I grew up to living in Washington, D.C., before I went to Fiji. In terms of electricity and things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Yeah, I was going to ask you that. How do you feel like your background growing up in that kind of area without electricity and indoor plumbing, do you think that made it easier for you to adapt when you went to another country that didn't have those conveniences?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 27.786760559200342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't as unusual for me, you know. And I think a lot of the stuff that you learn on a farm, you know, kind of translates in that you learn how to fix a washing machine with a pair of pliers. That's the only tool you have, and that kind of stuff. So. And there were things, you know, I guess one of the things. Like back when I was growing up, the guys my father's age would sit around telling World War II stories. And in the village at night when they were doing talanoa around the kava bowl, you know, the old guys were telling World War II stories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there's a lot, some of the same kind of stuff. So anyhow, we did two weeks in Cautata and then we did some time in Suva and some time, I guess, a couple other places. But then we were supposed to go to another village and it fell through. And so we, uh, Komai took us to Bau Island, where he was from. We spent I think about two weeks there, essentially living with his family. And his father, his parents were alive then, and his father was a big cheese. He was the mata ni vanua, the spokesman for the chief of Bau. And the chief of Bau, at least according to the Bauans, is the most important person in Fiji. I'm not sure all the other Fijians feel that way, but they felt, the Bauans felt that way about themselves. And then it turned out he passed away while we, well, like '74 or '75."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The father?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The father did, yeah. Komai passed away a few years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were studying Fijian then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.184210576437042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could understand their English. I couldn't, you know, or the Fijians' English or the Tongans' English or the Gilbertese guy, you know. But so and I don't know if they could understand me or not. I caught them a couple of times mocking my Midwestern accent. But the one was, like one semester the first day of class, this Indian kid stood up and said, sir, do you have a yachet? And I thought about that a while and I had him repeat it. And then I realized what he was saying was, do I have a yacht? Because our offices were in the old hangar building of the, down by the breakwater at USP, and that had been the flying boat base in World War II. And so a lot of the faculty had little sailboats and stuff and they kept them there.\n\nAnd it turned out that Dan Cantor, the Peace Corps director over there in Fiji, had a little ten-foot little boat, not a massive boat, and he had kept it over at the Suva Yacht Club. And that bothered him, I guess, to have a Peace Corps director with a boat at the yacht club. And so when I came, he says, after he said, you think you can work it out so that I can keep my boat over there at USP? And I said, yeah, if you let me use it sometimes. I knew how to sail a little bit, but not much. And so I said, OK. So we sailed it around one time and kept it there. And so that was one of the, every semester then we'd do a little physics about how yachts work and vectors and wind vectors and things like that. And then we'd go out for a sail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Couldn't fit the whole class on that one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it'd take a couple. Two or three groups of students. So anyhow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your training was primarily in Suva, in the capital city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in villages. And in the villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when you completed training, your assignment was?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 21.31578952937449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it'd take a couple. Two or three groups of students. So anyhow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your training was primarily in Suva, in the capital city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in villages. And in the villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when you completed training, your assignment was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to USP, the university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's also in Suva?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.906432810416103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in villages. And in the villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when you completed training, your assignment was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to USP, the university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's also in Suva?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's in Suva, yes, the capital. And as I said, it used to be a New Zealand, during World War II, it was a Royal Air Force, I guess, flying boat base. And Americans were there, some I guess, and trained. And then after the war it became a New Zealand flying boat base. And then when Fiji became independent in, uh, whenever that was, '60 something, mid sixties, kind of as a gift to the country of Fiji, the British Commonwealth gave that land of the air, of the base. They gave them their land back and so they could use it as a university. And so there weren't a lot of built or new buildings there. When I was there, they were just, they built the library while I was there. But so they used a lot of the old air base buildings as classrooms and so forth. And where I lived was a, uh, had been a bachelor's officer's quarters. And so it was like a long building with a veranda and about half a dozen bedrooms on one end and then a communal bathroom and then a communal kitchen and sitting room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Set up like a barracks."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.451592011573448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to USP, the university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's also in Suva?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's in Suva, yes, the capital. And as I said, it used to be a New Zealand, during World War II, it was a Royal Air Force, I guess, flying boat base. And Americans were there, some I guess, and trained. And then after the war it became a New Zealand flying boat base. And then when Fiji became independent in, uh, whenever that was, '60 something, mid sixties, kind of as a gift to the country of Fiji, the British Commonwealth gave that land of the air, of the base. They gave them their land back and so they could use it as a university. And so there weren't a lot of built or new buildings there. When I was there, they were just, they built the library while I was there. But so they used a lot of the old air base buildings as classrooms and so forth. And where I lived was a, uh, had been a bachelor's officer's quarters. And so it was like a long building with a veranda and about half a dozen bedrooms on one end and then a communal bathroom and then a communal kitchen and sitting room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Set up like a barracks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And so I was there with other Peace Corps volunteers there, Bruce Carlson and David Tyson and some others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how many Peace Corps volunteers were at USP at that time, do you remember? Approximately."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.168435568414942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's in Suva, yes, the capital. And as I said, it used to be a New Zealand, during World War II, it was a Royal Air Force, I guess, flying boat base. And Americans were there, some I guess, and trained. And then after the war it became a New Zealand flying boat base. And then when Fiji became independent in, uh, whenever that was, '60 something, mid sixties, kind of as a gift to the country of Fiji, the British Commonwealth gave that land of the air, of the base. They gave them their land back and so they could use it as a university. And so there weren't a lot of built or new buildings there. When I was there, they were just, they built the library while I was there. But so they used a lot of the old air base buildings as classrooms and so forth. And where I lived was a, uh, had been a bachelor's officer's quarters. And so it was like a long building with a veranda and about half a dozen bedrooms on one end and then a communal bathroom and then a communal kitchen and sitting room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Set up like a barracks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And so I was there with other Peace Corps volunteers there, Bruce Carlson and David Tyson and some others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how many Peace Corps volunteers were at USP at that time, do you remember? Approximately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was probably on the order of 15, I would guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a large group."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.195599467178937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was probably on the order of 15, I would guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a large group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm not positive now but anyhow, so I after we came back from the 50th anniversary, it occurred to me I start making a list. I wondered, can I write down? I don't know if you want to keep this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so one of the attractions was, I guess, is that we had hot showers. And so whenever. We had a lot of visitors. So people that, the Peace Corps volunteers that taught on outer islands or in remote places, whenever they'd come into Fiji once or twice a year, a lot of them would wind up sleeping on our floors and using our showers. So I got to meet a lot of the volunteers that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so your housing was on campus, which isolated you a little bit from the neighborhood."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 23.550666074643264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm not positive now but anyhow, so I after we came back from the 50th anniversary, it occurred to me I start making a list. I wondered, can I write down? I don't know if you want to keep this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so one of the attractions was, I guess, is that we had hot showers. And so whenever. We had a lot of visitors. So people that, the Peace Corps volunteers that taught on outer islands or in remote places, whenever they'd come into Fiji once or twice a year, a lot of them would wind up sleeping on our floors and using our showers. So I got to meet a lot of the volunteers that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so your housing was on campus, which isolated you a little bit from the neighborhood."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you have much interaction with the local neighbors or anything? Or the other staff at the school? Outside of school time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.891275833932728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of my students was this guy named, a Fijian guy named Wami. And this was in the mid seventies and it's back when, uh. So anyhow, he dressed like he was from California. And so a lot, and a lot of the, well. So he was wearing, you know, tight bellbottom jeans and flowery shirts and stuff. And so were the, a lot of the Indian students too. It's just the way, I think they still dress that way. Maybe not with the bellbottoms anymore, this time with tight jeans and a shirt. But anyhow, Wami was a very charismatic guy. And so when we were going back to Fiji this summer, I got in touch with him. And, I mean, I looked him up on the internet and stuff and figured out a little bit about him, and found out he was, got in touch with him anyway. And so we met, he and his wife, there at the Grand Pacific Hotel for breakfast one day. And he became a doctor and was the head of Fiji School of Medicine for a few years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently straightened it out and got it accredited and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And his wife was a high-end lawyer. But anyhow, so. You know, so you feel like, well, I taught this guy so, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had some influence."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.101417593258585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently straightened it out and got it accredited and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And his wife was a high-end lawyer. But anyhow, so. You know, so you feel like, well, I taught this guy so, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had some influence."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's a success because of me. So my wife asked him, what do you remember about Jim? And he says, well, the thing I remember is he'd have us over to his place and he'd make popcorn. So my influence on this guy was me teaching him about popcorn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the students at, uh, USP has campuses all throughout the Pacific. So you had some other islanders attending school there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.063478510195782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's a success because of me. So my wife asked him, what do you remember about Jim? And he says, well, the thing I remember is he'd have us over to his place and he'd make popcorn. So my influence on this guy was me teaching him about popcorn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the students at, uh, USP has campuses all throughout the Pacific. So you had some other islanders attending school there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, the main."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty mixed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The main campus, well, still is the one in Suva. And they had a mixture of, uh, so I suppose like 80% of the students were from Fiji and probably then about 60, maybe 70% of the Fijian students were of Indian descent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I think a small percentage of Fijians actually get to go to university. So would you think that these were the elite of Fiji or did they come from chiefly families or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.945850075917708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so when I got there then, my first six months there, a part of my job, I got involved in going to some of these other little countries and surveying them for setting up satellite reception there. And so I went to, back then it was called New Caledonia. I guess it's Vanuatu now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was French then and the French were very suspicious. They didn't, they weren't sure they wanted an American satellite. For people, natives talking over an American satellite. So anyhow, I was climbing, had to climb around on the roofs there, raising and kind of waving a television antenna type thing, you know, see if I could get a signal, how good it was. So I did that a couple of different places. And then I went to the country of Niue and set up their, took along some tubes full of antennas that I had put together and receiver and stuff. And we set up their little teaching office, about the size of this room, with a table so the students can come in and sit around and talk to a tutor once a week for an hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was pretty high tech for those days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did it work out?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.60650008435301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was French then and the French were very suspicious. They didn't, they weren't sure they wanted an American satellite. For people, natives talking over an American satellite. So anyhow, I was climbing, had to climb around on the roofs there, raising and kind of waving a television antenna type thing, you know, see if I could get a signal, how good it was. So I did that a couple of different places. And then I went to the country of Niue and set up their, took along some tubes full of antennas that I had put together and receiver and stuff. And we set up their little teaching office, about the size of this room, with a table so the students can come in and sit around and talk to a tutor once a week for an hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was pretty high tech for those days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did it work out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked pretty, it seemed to work pretty well. And they had, they got centers going in several countries. And when I went back this summer, I went on campus and everything was shut down when we were there. But they have a building now that's there, I guess like a communications building, they call it, with huge, I mean, it looks like a building here with the satellite dishes sticking out on it. So they still do, I imagine they have video now too. But and it said something about a gift from Japan. So. So as you mentioned, they've been big in putting, not only putting that kind of thing, but campuses on other countries. So you can. Different island countries, I guess, have different specialties. Some of them, I think maybe the law college is somewhere, and different cultural things are on other island countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's impressive. So you were a pioneer in distance learning."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.451666760392232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did it work out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked pretty, it seemed to work pretty well. And they had, they got centers going in several countries. And when I went back this summer, I went on campus and everything was shut down when we were there. But they have a building now that's there, I guess like a communications building, they call it, with huge, I mean, it looks like a building here with the satellite dishes sticking out on it. So they still do, I imagine they have video now too. But and it said something about a gift from Japan. So. So as you mentioned, they've been big in putting, not only putting that kind of thing, but campuses on other countries. So you can. Different island countries, I guess, have different specialties. Some of them, I think maybe the law college is somewhere, and different cultural things are on other island countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's impressive. So you were a pioneer in distance learning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know pioneer. An enabler."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So what did you enjoy most about living in Fiji and Suva?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.461865163495112, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I tried to do was, uh, like when I have a long weekend, probably say every two months or so, I would go back out to the village of Cautata. And it turned out that one of the guys from the village was a security guard at the university, and so I got to know him. So I'd go out with him, and they used to have a bus that went up. The village had a, owned a bus to bring people in and out. And so you could go down to the bus stop and get on the bus and go out there. And so about once every couple of months I'd go out. I'd tell them I'm coming out for the weekend. There was a lady that, I guess she was kind of my unofficial grandmother, and she would give me her bed and she'd go to sleep with her kids or something. So that's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that training experience became a permanent connection for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when we went back this past summer, we made arrangements through Sala. And I asked her if she knew anyone from the village, in that village, and she came up with a name, and so we communicated on Facebook and he became my spokesman. And so he picked us up at the Grand Pacific and took us out to buy kava. And we went there and spent half a day in the village. And I took along prints of old pictures and gave it to him. So he gave them copies of old pictures I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, old pictures you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From 40 some years ago. Oh yeah, that's so-and-so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they remember you? Anybody remember you in the village?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.290961292772348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when we went back this past summer, we made arrangements through Sala. And I asked her if she knew anyone from the village, in that village, and she came up with a name, and so we communicated on Facebook and he became my spokesman. And so he picked us up at the Grand Pacific and took us out to buy kava. And we went there and spent half a day in the village. And I took along prints of old pictures and gave it to him. So he gave them copies of old pictures I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, old pictures you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From 40 some years ago. Oh yeah, that's so-and-so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they remember you? Anybody remember you in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't see that many people in the village. And the guy that was a security guard, he died a few years ago. And I mean, so I mean, I suppose some of the kids. I don't know. We all look alike, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's been a long time."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.323290325302608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From 40 some years ago. Oh yeah, that's so-and-so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they remember you? Anybody remember you in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't see that many people in the village. And the guy that was a security guard, he died a few years ago. And I mean, so I mean, I suppose some of the kids. I don't know. We all look alike, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's been a long time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's been a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And people don't always stay in the village."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.248100361447342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't see that many people in the village. And the guy that was a security guard, he died a few years ago. And I mean, so I mean, I suppose some of the kids. I don't know. We all look alike, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's been a long time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's been a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And people don't always stay in the village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But so I did go to, uh, went to Taveuni and Ovalau, other islands around there. And I went down to Kadavu. So essentially those were all, uh, staying with the volunteers who had essentially slept on my floor. I went to sleep on their floor, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so in those days did you go by boat or did you fly?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.37052339827489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it pulls into the harbor there in Nuku'alofa. And sure enough, there's the local Tonga police paddy wagons there and their lights whipping around. And so all the guys get off the boat, get in the paddy wagons. I guess they go down to the station and they let them all go. So that's how you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So they were hiding the entire trip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. I never didn't even know they were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And back then, I think it's probably still true today. Places, countries like Tonga made especially Suva seem like a hubbub of civilization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like Las Vegas or something."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.52280377586099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. I never didn't even know they were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And back then, I think it's probably still true today. Places, countries like Tonga made especially Suva seem like a hubbub of civilization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like Las Vegas or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Bright lights and all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you were there at USP for two years."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 23.914226417623322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And back then, I think it's probably still true today. Places, countries like Tonga made especially Suva seem like a hubbub of civilization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like Las Vegas or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Bright lights and all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you were there at USP for two years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And since then. Well, did you consider extending at all or did they ask you to extend?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.081887544007499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. So then as I was coming up on July of '75, I guess was kind of the earliest. I mean, my two years were up and what I kind of thought was that maybe I would at least stay on to the end of the school year, which would have been like December, November. And but what happened was that this young lady, Polly, came down to visit me the winter of '74, and she, you know, I'd known her from back here in D.C., and so she came down and visited me. And one thing led to another, as it does in the South Pacific. So she came back here and then we had this long several months of the blue aerograms flying back and forth. And so then she came back to Fiji and we got married there in May of. She came back in May and got married in June of '75. And so because of that, I didn't extend. When my time was up, I left after two years rather than extending."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you actually got married in Fiji?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.757652826675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. So then as I was coming up on July of '75, I guess was kind of the earliest. I mean, my two years were up and what I kind of thought was that maybe I would at least stay on to the end of the school year, which would have been like December, November. And but what happened was that this young lady, Polly, came down to visit me the winter of '74, and she, you know, I'd known her from back here in D.C., and so she came down and visited me. And one thing led to another, as it does in the South Pacific. So she came back here and then we had this long several months of the blue aerograms flying back and forth. And so then she came back to Fiji and we got married there in May of. She came back in May and got married in June of '75. And so because of that, I didn't extend. When my time was up, I left after two years rather than extending."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you actually got married in Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got married in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did that take place? Was it a church or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.50850314075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. So then as I was coming up on July of '75, I guess was kind of the earliest. I mean, my two years were up and what I kind of thought was that maybe I would at least stay on to the end of the school year, which would have been like December, November. And but what happened was that this young lady, Polly, came down to visit me the winter of '74, and she, you know, I'd known her from back here in D.C., and so she came down and visited me. And one thing led to another, as it does in the South Pacific. So she came back here and then we had this long several months of the blue aerograms flying back and forth. And so then she came back to Fiji and we got married there in May of. She came back in May and got married in June of '75. And so because of that, I didn't extend. When my time was up, I left after two years rather than extending."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you actually got married in Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got married in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did that take place? Was it a church or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got married in the Catholic cathedral in Suva."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right downtown?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.3427812675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got married in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did that take place? Was it a church or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got married in the Catholic cathedral in Suva."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right downtown?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it's still there and we, they remodeled it, I guess, since we got married. And we tried to go in it this last summer, but it was locked. I mean, they locked the church, these black churches now. And they have guards around the, I mean, they have a compound around the Peace Corps office and they keep track of where the volunteers are at all times and all this kind of stuff that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's changed quite a bit."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.380868075000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got married in the Catholic cathedral in Suva."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right downtown?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it's still there and we, they remodeled it, I guess, since we got married. And we tried to go in it this last summer, but it was locked. I mean, they locked the church, these black churches now. And they have guards around the, I mean, they have a compound around the Peace Corps office and they keep track of where the volunteers are at all times and all this kind of stuff that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's changed quite a bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you can't get in the embassy."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.423186750000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it's still there and we, they remodeled it, I guess, since we got married. And we tried to go in it this last summer, but it was locked. I mean, they locked the church, these black churches now. And they have guards around the, I mean, they have a compound around the Peace Corps office and they keep track of where the volunteers are at all times and all this kind of stuff that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's changed quite a bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you can't get in the embassy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can't get in the embassy. Yeah, the embassy compound has nothing. Because it seemed to me that when we were in the Peace Corps, it's kind of that's what you did on Saturday mornings. You went down to the Peace Corps office and wandered in there to see if you got any mail and, you know, talk to people. And then you'd find these other people that were just into town from some outer island. And they'd said, you got a place to stay? You'd say, uh. But all that is by the wayside now, I guess. But to some extent it was easier back then in a lot of ways, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So how do you feel that that experience of being a Peace Corps volunteer impacted your post Peace Corps life in the past several years? I know you've remained connected through the Friends of Fiji."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. I think I've blasted through about everything. Well, I guess the other thing was that, I guess what. Kind of one of my generalizations is that people seem to have kind of hinge points in their life, you know, kind of high points. And then after that, at those points their lives kind of change or that that's the high point and everything's downhill after that. And for some people, it's high school football. It kind of goes on from there. It could be the military or college or, you know. But for me, you know, partly because of getting married there and stuff, but just the adventure of that period was to me a kind of a hinge point in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A high point in your life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, after that, you know, coming back here, I kind of would come back and went to work for Mitre Corporation and stuff and had a career as a nerd. But, you know, you kind of do things differently, I think, you know, like, you know, is that I don't want to be a manager. So I didn't become a manager and just, you know, didn't worry about not making the really big bucks. And, you know, a lot of the people that are in Friends of Fiji that, some of them like David Downes and Cynthia Grant, you know, I knew from back there. So it's kind of nice that that was kind of a big part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh right, so some of the people that are your good friends now are people that you'd met because of Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe not during your service but because they share that in common."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00068:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, they were there in Fiji when I was there and a lady who was a couple of miles from us, Carol Reeder. She was married and she went, we were in, she was part of the same group of four people that did the training together. And she was married then and her husband, Bob, was also in that group. And their marriage fell apart. Well, it was a complicated thing. But anyhow, she is around and we're very good friends with her. It seemed like there was something else I was going to say, but I. Nah, I think that's pretty much it. Oh, well, I guess the other thing I was going to say is I guess just a part of when I was talking about how I felt like my tape recorder was running and I felt alive and all this kind of stuff while I was a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other thing that's happened that I've done that has made me feel kind of the same way is I went, I did a week with Habitat for Humanity down in New Orleans after, a year after Katrina. And I guess I would, anyone that's considering the Peace Corps, I would recommend do a week with Habitat for Humanity and see how you feel about it, because it's very much the same thing except compressed. You're thrown in with a bunch of new people and you kind of have goals, things to do, kind of, and you're assigned jobs and stuff and you sleep on cots and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, you really kind of use, it gives you very much the same, at least it gave me the same kind of feelings of connectedness with these people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, camaraderie."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And camaraderie and bitching about stuff. So that's my advice to someone who wants to join the Peace Corps. Do a week for Habitat for Humanity first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. All right. Well, thanks very much, Jim."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.15137021330941, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you for having me, and I hope I can provide some good information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so. Steve [Steven R.] Nagel recommended you to us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wondered where it came from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I asked him for the people he thought were the best candidates. I thought we’d start out by asking you to just give us an overview of your career with the Air Force and then at NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started my Air Force career in 1971 working on fighter airplanes, F-4s and 111s, and then became a flight engineer on C-141s. Did that for three years or so and then came to NASA in 1979. At NASA I flew on the C-130 Earth resources airplane, the old Super Guppy, the Shuttle Training Aircraft, and then got on the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft [SCA] in 1989."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How’d you find out about the opportunity to work on the SCA?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 34.61263357034379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wondered where it came from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I asked him for the people he thought were the best candidates. I thought we’d start out by asking you to just give us an overview of your career with the Air Force and then at NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started my Air Force career in 1971 working on fighter airplanes, F-4s and 111s, and then became a flight engineer on C-141s. Did that for three years or so and then came to NASA in 1979. At NASA I flew on the C-130 Earth resources airplane, the old Super Guppy, the Shuttle Training Aircraft, and then got on the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft [SCA] in 1989."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How’d you find out about the opportunity to work on the SCA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was already here. The guys that were in charge of our operation, as openings came up, they selected people that were qualified and available to fly, because of background experience. It was like just waiting your turn until somebody retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that one of the nice posts out of Ellington [Field, Houston, Texas], one of the coveted positions, I guess you might say?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.569592855937547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started my Air Force career in 1971 working on fighter airplanes, F-4s and 111s, and then became a flight engineer on C-141s. Did that for three years or so and then came to NASA in 1979. At NASA I flew on the C-130 Earth resources airplane, the old Super Guppy, the Shuttle Training Aircraft, and then got on the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft [SCA] in 1989."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How’d you find out about the opportunity to work on the SCA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was already here. The guys that were in charge of our operation, as openings came up, they selected people that were qualified and available to fly, because of background experience. It was like just waiting your turn until somebody retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that one of the nice posts out of Ellington [Field, Houston, Texas], one of the coveted positions, I guess you might say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it is, because it’s an interesting program. Back when I first started flying on the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft, more landings were at Edwards [Air Force Base, California]. So we got to do it more often. Later on in the program they tried to land at KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida] much more than they did in the earlier days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the training that you had to take to become a flight engineer for the SCA."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 31.74399206215283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was already here. The guys that were in charge of our operation, as openings came up, they selected people that were qualified and available to fly, because of background experience. It was like just waiting your turn until somebody retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that one of the nice posts out of Ellington [Field, Houston, Texas], one of the coveted positions, I guess you might say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it is, because it’s an interesting program. Back when I first started flying on the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft, more landings were at Edwards [Air Force Base, California]. So we got to do it more often. Later on in the program they tried to land at KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida] much more than they did in the earlier days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the training that you had to take to become a flight engineer for the SCA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At NASA, when I was selected for the airplane, they sent me to two weeks of systems training, and then I went to the simulator for four, five sessions of practicing procedures, especially emergency procedures in the simulator. Every system on the airplane—it’s a very complicated airplane because it’s so involved—they would create malfunctions in the flight simulator of every system, and you’d have to learn how to perform procedures. So after that then I just started flying and took a couple training flights and then became qualified."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that two-week training period were you out at Dryden [Flight Research Center, California]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 28.604435624614254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it is, because it’s an interesting program. Back when I first started flying on the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft, more landings were at Edwards [Air Force Base, California]. So we got to do it more often. Later on in the program they tried to land at KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida] much more than they did in the earlier days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the training that you had to take to become a flight engineer for the SCA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At NASA, when I was selected for the airplane, they sent me to two weeks of systems training, and then I went to the simulator for four, five sessions of practicing procedures, especially emergency procedures in the simulator. Every system on the airplane—it’s a very complicated airplane because it’s so involved—they would create malfunctions in the flight simulator of every system, and you’d have to learn how to perform procedures. So after that then I just started flying and took a couple training flights and then became qualified."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that two-week training period were you out at Dryden [Flight Research Center, California]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Actually the ground school was done up in Dallas at a company called Dalfort which was part of Braniff Airlines back in the days. They had a simulator, and they had instructors that did ground school. In the simulator I had a United Airlines instructor who came and worked at the simulator. There was like five four-hour sessions in the simulator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about being a flight engineer for the SCA. What do you do? What are your job responsibilities?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.83739422553821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s because of seeing and avoiding weather. We can’t fly through thunderstorms. We can’t fly through clouds. We can’t fly within any more than light turbulence. Because the Pathfinder airplane, which is out in front of us by about 100 miles, is scoping out the route, they can tell us that we need to change our route or deviate or climb or descend. We’re limited on altitude with the Orbiter to eight psi [pounds per square inch] and minus nine degrees centigrade, which is 15 degrees Fahrenheit. So sometimes we have to deviate on our route. Seeing clouds at night is much more difficult when you’re flying. So unless it’s absolutely clear—we have got a couple waivers a couple times to complete a flight at night when we knew it was absolutely perfectly clear and there was no chance of any problems, but normally we only fly during the daytime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that because of the thermal protection system [TPS]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The TPS system, the tiles on the Orbiter, any rain just erodes them like all get-out and causes significant damage, or can cause significant damage. So we don’t fly through rain, and we can’t be near thunderstorms. So it’s just much easier just to see and avoid during the day than at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you’re working at these plans a month in advance, you have an idea what the Orbiter weighs. Does that weight ever change? Do you weigh the vehicle once it comes back in case they brought something else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They don’t weigh it at Edwards. What they do is the Orbiter mass properties folks keep track of what the Orbiter is weighing based on propellant uses during a mission and cargo offloaded. Before the mission they have a pretty good idea, approximately, what it’s going to weigh if they land at Edwards. Once it lands at Edwards they give us an updated weight that we can use for the final planning. This is just a best estimate of what it’s going to be when we do the meeting a month ahead of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me where you sit during the ferry flight itself."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.967679051269943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are four main, one center wing, and two reserve tanks. We normally only use fuel out of the mains and reserves. We don’t use fuel out of center wing mainly because the Orbiter just takes up too much weight. The airplane can only weigh 710,000 pounds at takeoff. So with a 200-and-something-thousand-pound Orbiter we can’t put a full load of fuel on. So we never get fuel in the center because you make it too heavy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me why you would burn fuel out of different tanks. How does that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s just to manage the load on the wings, to keep the wing loaded right, a certain weight. Certain types are bigger than others. So you start out burning out of all the main tanks. Then you get down to a certain amount, and then you switch over, burn out of the inboards. When you get towards the end of the flight you get lower on fuel so you have to use the reserve fuel and dump it into the tanks to use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a lot of juggling."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is a little bit, but it’s not too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some of the challenges that you might face when you’re flight engineer working on the SCA?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.741865612522158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s just to manage the load on the wings, to keep the wing loaded right, a certain weight. Certain types are bigger than others. So you start out burning out of all the main tanks. Then you get down to a certain amount, and then you switch over, burn out of the inboards. When you get towards the end of the flight you get lower on fuel so you have to use the reserve fuel and dump it into the tanks to use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a lot of juggling."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is a little bit, but it’s not too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some of the challenges that you might face when you’re flight engineer working on the SCA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Biggest thing is a lot of performance calculations: the balancing of flap setting for takeoff versus climb limit, because with more flaps for takeoff you’re limited by takeoff climb weight more than with the less flaps setting. But with less flaps you need more runway to get off. So it’s a balance between what can you climb with versus what can you get off the runway with. That’s the biggest pretakeoff challenge. In flight the main thing is just monitoring the systems, keeping track of what’s going on. During Orbiter ferry mission the SCA provides power to the Orbiter, and we have to keep track of that. Every 15 minutes we record the voltage and the amperage of the transformer rectifier [T/R] output to the Orbiter to make sure that the Orbiter doesn’t lose power. If part of the Orbiter loses power, then some of the circulation systems and coolant loops become affected. Depending on what the temperature is and where we are, if we lose too much power to the Orbiter, they will say, “Go land,” because we don’t want to damage the systems on the Orbiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would damage avionics in the vehicle?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.82429512502462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is a little bit, but it’s not too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some of the challenges that you might face when you’re flight engineer working on the SCA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Biggest thing is a lot of performance calculations: the balancing of flap setting for takeoff versus climb limit, because with more flaps for takeoff you’re limited by takeoff climb weight more than with the less flaps setting. But with less flaps you need more runway to get off. So it’s a balance between what can you climb with versus what can you get off the runway with. That’s the biggest pretakeoff challenge. In flight the main thing is just monitoring the systems, keeping track of what’s going on. During Orbiter ferry mission the SCA provides power to the Orbiter, and we have to keep track of that. Every 15 minutes we record the voltage and the amperage of the transformer rectifier [T/R] output to the Orbiter to make sure that the Orbiter doesn’t lose power. If part of the Orbiter loses power, then some of the circulation systems and coolant loops become affected. Depending on what the temperature is and where we are, if we lose too much power to the Orbiter, they will say, “Go land,” because we don’t want to damage the systems on the Orbiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would damage avionics in the vehicle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe so, yes. We have two gauges. You can either select volts or amps. We have four T/Rs. So keep track of the volts and amps that they’re putting out. That tells us the Orbiter’s power being used. You can see over flight time. You can see the load on those going up as the Orbiter cold-soaks in altitude. Their systems have to work harder, their coolant loops and pumps work more. So you can see an increase in load."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people end up flying a ferrying flight? Is it just the two pilots and the one flight engineer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.24921680558291, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Biggest thing is a lot of performance calculations: the balancing of flap setting for takeoff versus climb limit, because with more flaps for takeoff you’re limited by takeoff climb weight more than with the less flaps setting. But with less flaps you need more runway to get off. So it’s a balance between what can you climb with versus what can you get off the runway with. That’s the biggest pretakeoff challenge. In flight the main thing is just monitoring the systems, keeping track of what’s going on. During Orbiter ferry mission the SCA provides power to the Orbiter, and we have to keep track of that. Every 15 minutes we record the voltage and the amperage of the transformer rectifier [T/R] output to the Orbiter to make sure that the Orbiter doesn’t lose power. If part of the Orbiter loses power, then some of the circulation systems and coolant loops become affected. Depending on what the temperature is and where we are, if we lose too much power to the Orbiter, they will say, “Go land,” because we don’t want to damage the systems on the Orbiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would damage avionics in the vehicle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe so, yes. We have two gauges. You can either select volts or amps. We have four T/Rs. So keep track of the volts and amps that they’re putting out. That tells us the Orbiter’s power being used. You can see over flight time. You can see the load on those going up as the Orbiter cold-soaks in altitude. Their systems have to work harder, their coolant loops and pumps work more. So you can see an increase in load."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people end up flying a ferrying flight? Is it just the two pilots and the one flight engineer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Normally during an active ferry mission, it’s two pilots and two flight engineers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you switch off at some point during the flight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 38.05468533953657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe so, yes. We have two gauges. You can either select volts or amps. We have four T/Rs. So keep track of the volts and amps that they’re putting out. That tells us the Orbiter’s power being used. You can see over flight time. You can see the load on those going up as the Orbiter cold-soaks in altitude. Their systems have to work harder, their coolant loops and pumps work more. So you can see an increase in load."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people end up flying a ferrying flight? Is it just the two pilots and the one flight engineer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Normally during an active ferry mission, it’s two pilots and two flight engineers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you switch off at some point during the flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes we do. It depends how many legs we’re going to do. If there are enough legs so everybody’s going to get a chance at the seat then one flight engineer will take a leg from point A to point B. Then the other guy will take it from B to C. The pilots will do the same thing. They’ll switch legs. It depends on how many they’re going to get. If there’s a very limited number of legs, then sometimes people will switch in flight so that one guy will get the takeoff and one guy will get the landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve been in the SCA, I think, once. If memory serves, there’s a lounge where there might typically have been seats in a 747."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 33.75251510000705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every six months we all go to the simulator and spend three or four days getting refresher training on systems and also practicing emergency procedures. They’ll give us a scenario where they’ll give us problems starting engines, systems fails, engine failures on takeoff, aborted takeoffs where you get up to where it’s time for takeoff, they fail an engine, then you have to stop and evacuate the airplane. Electrical problems, flap problems, gear problems. All the different problems that can occur on the airplane, we practice every six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where’s the simulator located?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have been using the simulator at Denver [Colorado]. In the years that I’ve been on the airplane we went to Seattle [Washington], to Boeing, to the simulator. Went to Pan Am in Miami [Florida] to the simulator. We’ve been going to the United [Airlines] simulator in Denver. We’ve used the Evergreen simulator in Denver. Before I got on the airplane they’d use American Airlines simulator. So we’ve used different simulators. We now have a couple of guys who do all of our ground instruction and sim [simulator] instruction. They used to be United pilots and flight engineer instructors, and now they work for CSC, which is our contractor. They just lease the simulator for us to use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For some reason I thought maybe there was a simulator on site or over at Ellington. You also fly the plane on a regular basis too, do you not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we fly the airplane about once a month, three weeks to a month. We go out and do a training flight so that everybody can get their landings and proficiency. We have to fly every 60 days to be current."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you simulate a Shuttle being on top of the SCA?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 36.391683444452276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have been using the simulator at Denver [Colorado]. In the years that I’ve been on the airplane we went to Seattle [Washington], to Boeing, to the simulator. Went to Pan Am in Miami [Florida] to the simulator. We’ve been going to the United [Airlines] simulator in Denver. We’ve used the Evergreen simulator in Denver. Before I got on the airplane they’d use American Airlines simulator. So we’ve used different simulators. We now have a couple of guys who do all of our ground instruction and sim [simulator] instruction. They used to be United pilots and flight engineer instructors, and now they work for CSC, which is our contractor. They just lease the simulator for us to use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For some reason I thought maybe there was a simulator on site or over at Ellington. You also fly the plane on a regular basis too, do you not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we fly the airplane about once a month, three weeks to a month. We go out and do a training flight so that everybody can get their landings and proficiency. We have to fly every 60 days to be current."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you simulate a Shuttle being on top of the SCA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through software, the simulator folks created the drag. You can adjust the weight in the simulator. You can change the weight and cg [center of gravity]. So we tell them what weight we want to be at, 710,000 or 600,000 or whatever weight we want to be. Through the software they can change the way the simulator responds because it simulates that we’re heavier or lighter. The Orbiter drag is a math model that was created back in the ’70s and passed from simulator to simulator. It’s a program that we own to create the drag simulation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you’re not flying an active ferry flight where do you normally take the SCA just to practice?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 39.32409271605808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we fly the airplane about once a month, three weeks to a month. We go out and do a training flight so that everybody can get their landings and proficiency. We have to fly every 60 days to be current."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you simulate a Shuttle being on top of the SCA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through software, the simulator folks created the drag. You can adjust the weight in the simulator. You can change the weight and cg [center of gravity]. So we tell them what weight we want to be at, 710,000 or 600,000 or whatever weight we want to be. Through the software they can change the way the simulator responds because it simulates that we’re heavier or lighter. The Orbiter drag is a math model that was created back in the ’70s and passed from simulator to simulator. It’s a program that we own to create the drag simulation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you’re not flying an active ferry flight where do you normally take the SCA just to practice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Normally we take off from Edwards and sometimes we go up to altitude north of Edwards and just check the pressurization. It all depends on what’s been done to the airplane in the last month. A lot of times we just go over to Palmdale and just shoot touch-and-gos and full stops so that each pilot gets an instrument approach, a couple touch-and-gos, a full stop landing and a takeoff. Then they swap seats and we go do it some more. It depends. Sometimes we have just a couple pilots on the airplane, sometimes four or five. Because of people’s schedules everybody tries to fly whenever they get a chance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must be a dream job for a pilot or a flight engineer."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 42.582325240064534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through software, the simulator folks created the drag. You can adjust the weight in the simulator. You can change the weight and cg [center of gravity]. So we tell them what weight we want to be at, 710,000 or 600,000 or whatever weight we want to be. Through the software they can change the way the simulator responds because it simulates that we’re heavier or lighter. The Orbiter drag is a math model that was created back in the ’70s and passed from simulator to simulator. It’s a program that we own to create the drag simulation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you’re not flying an active ferry flight where do you normally take the SCA just to practice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Normally we take off from Edwards and sometimes we go up to altitude north of Edwards and just check the pressurization. It all depends on what’s been done to the airplane in the last month. A lot of times we just go over to Palmdale and just shoot touch-and-gos and full stops so that each pilot gets an instrument approach, a couple touch-and-gos, a full stop landing and a takeoff. Then they swap seats and we go do it some more. It depends. Sometimes we have just a couple pilots on the airplane, sometimes four or five. Because of people’s schedules everybody tries to fly whenever they get a chance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must be a dream job for a pilot or a flight engineer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, after doing it for a long time, it gets windy and bumpy out there in California. So we try to fly early in the morning before it gets too hot and bumpy. As you can imagine, it’s the desert. In the summertime, it’s bumpy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s hot out there all the time."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 46.202583600071705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Normally we take off from Edwards and sometimes we go up to altitude north of Edwards and just check the pressurization. It all depends on what’s been done to the airplane in the last month. A lot of times we just go over to Palmdale and just shoot touch-and-gos and full stops so that each pilot gets an instrument approach, a couple touch-and-gos, a full stop landing and a takeoff. Then they swap seats and we go do it some more. It depends. Sometimes we have just a couple pilots on the airplane, sometimes four or five. Because of people’s schedules everybody tries to fly whenever they get a chance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must be a dream job for a pilot or a flight engineer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, after doing it for a long time, it gets windy and bumpy out there in California. So we try to fly early in the morning before it gets too hot and bumpy. As you can imagine, it’s the desert. In the summertime, it’s bumpy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s hot out there all the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At lower altitude, because we’re just a couple thousand feet over the ground as we’re in our patterns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now that the program has ended, what’s happening with the SCA? Do you continue to practice and do simulations?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 34.669537333413004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, after doing it for a long time, it gets windy and bumpy out there in California. So we try to fly early in the morning before it gets too hot and bumpy. As you can imagine, it’s the desert. In the summertime, it’s bumpy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s hot out there all the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At lower altitude, because we’re just a couple thousand feet over the ground as we’re in our patterns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now that the program has ended, what’s happening with the SCA? Do you continue to practice and do simulations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We continue to fly the airplane, and we will keep flying the airplane about once a month. Next spring in April is when Discovery is scheduled to go to the Air and Space Museum. Once it gets delivered to Dulles [National Air and Space Museum Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center, Virginia], to the Air and Space Museum, we’ll pick up Enterprise and take it to New York. Now the equipment that they’re going to use at Dulles after it gets loaded has to be torn down and shipped to New York. So it’ll probably be four to six weeks with Enterprise sitting on the 747 in New York before that equipment gets there to take it off. After Enterprise gets taken off in New York, then the airplane will go back to Edwards. Then in the summer Endeavour will go. We’ll take the airplane back to Florida, pick up Endeavour, and then fly it out to LA to deliver it to California Science [Center]. That’s it. Then after the Shuttle Program is done delivering all the Orbiters to museums, the airplanes are scheduled to be transferred to the SOFIA [Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared Astronomy] Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is the SOFIA Program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.32069524193975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we get calls from time to time, people wanting to do projects. As far as I know, unless something changes, after the Shuttle Program is done delivering, everybody says, “Yea verily we’re all done,” and [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, DC] put out a memo a couple three years ago says the airplanes will be transferred to SOFIA to reduce their cost so they won’t have to go buy more engines or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people used to work on the SCA as pilots and engineers? And how many have you retained now that you’re done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right now we have two pilots at JSC [Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas]. We used to have six pilots and four flight engineers throughout many years, four pilots at Houston and two pilots at Dryden. All four flight engineers were in Houston. Now with retirements and this and that and the other there are two pilots at JSC that are civil servants, and there are two qualified flight engineers at JSC. There’s one ferry-qualified civil servant pilot at Dryden and one civil servant pilot who can fly the airplane but is not certified yet for ferry operations. We have one contract flight engineer who used to be a civil servant, and one guy in training. Within the last few months, they hired as a part-time contract pilot one of the former civil servant pilots from JSC, who’s now retired. He’s also going to be flying SOFIA part-time. Then we hired another guy part-time to be an SCA pilot.\\n\\n The one guy who used to work at JSC and retired, he was on the airplane for a number of years, probably 20 years before he retired. We had two people retire within the last year and a half or two years from JSC that cut into the pilot pool significantly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You all work on other planes and other projects."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody flies something else and has multiple things that they do. So it’s not just the only thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re the chief flight engineer for the SCA. Can you tell us about that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 37.02299471326639, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right now we have two pilots at JSC [Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas]. We used to have six pilots and four flight engineers throughout many years, four pilots at Houston and two pilots at Dryden. All four flight engineers were in Houston. Now with retirements and this and that and the other there are two pilots at JSC that are civil servants, and there are two qualified flight engineers at JSC. There’s one ferry-qualified civil servant pilot at Dryden and one civil servant pilot who can fly the airplane but is not certified yet for ferry operations. We have one contract flight engineer who used to be a civil servant, and one guy in training. Within the last few months, they hired as a part-time contract pilot one of the former civil servant pilots from JSC, who’s now retired. He’s also going to be flying SOFIA part-time. Then we hired another guy part-time to be an SCA pilot.\\n\\n The one guy who used to work at JSC and retired, he was on the airplane for a number of years, probably 20 years before he retired. We had two people retire within the last year and a half or two years from JSC that cut into the pilot pool significantly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You all work on other planes and other projects."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody flies something else and has multiple things that they do. So it’s not just the only thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re the chief flight engineer for the SCA. Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically I provide the standardization for all the flight engineers. I administer the evaluations to determine when somebody’s qualified. I just manage the flight engineer part of the operation. I do just about all the performance planning for these ferry mission readiness reviews. Just a point of contact for all the FEs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had talked earlier about the ferry readiness reviews and how long in advance you had started working on those. Can you tell me who else is involved in those ferry readiness reviews besides the pilots and flight engineers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.20048643831844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Military bases, just about all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why is that the case?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Security, support capability. There’s a lot of people on the Pathfinder. There’s probably a team of 30 people or something on the Pathfinder, or more. So if we spend the night, everybody’s got to get vehicles, hotels. The military provides security, because the Orbiter has to be roped off. It has an entry control point where they have armed guards, and nobody can get within 200 feet of the 747, unless they’re on the access list. The only people on the access list are the 747 crew and some of the ferry team members that have to do stuff with the airplane or the Orbiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who is on the Pathfinder? Tell me a little bit about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’ll have weather officers. You’ll have a ferry manager. You’ll have all the KSC support personnel. You’ll have the 747 mechanics. You’ll have the Pathfinder flight crew and maintenance crew. You’ll have safety folks. You’ll have security folks. It’s a big crowd. It’s typically 30, 35 people on an active ferry mission on the Pathfinder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you’re coming into a landing, who needs to be there? What are your duties as you’re landing the vehicle?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 31.33387382035382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Security, support capability. There’s a lot of people on the Pathfinder. There’s probably a team of 30 people or something on the Pathfinder, or more. So if we spend the night, everybody’s got to get vehicles, hotels. The military provides security, because the Orbiter has to be roped off. It has an entry control point where they have armed guards, and nobody can get within 200 feet of the 747, unless they’re on the access list. The only people on the access list are the 747 crew and some of the ferry team members that have to do stuff with the airplane or the Orbiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who is on the Pathfinder? Tell me a little bit about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’ll have weather officers. You’ll have a ferry manager. You’ll have all the KSC support personnel. You’ll have the 747 mechanics. You’ll have the Pathfinder flight crew and maintenance crew. You’ll have safety folks. You’ll have security folks. It’s a big crowd. It’s typically 30, 35 people on an active ferry mission on the Pathfinder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you’re coming into a landing, who needs to be there? What are your duties as you’re landing the vehicle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Pathfinder is there ahead of time, so they have things set up. The airport or the base knows where they’re going to put us, because it’s all been coordinated. When we land of course we have safety vehicles like fire trucks and ambulances standing by. We land, and we go to the spot where they’re going to check and make sure we’re safe with the sniff checks and then we go to our parking spot.\\n\\n The mechanics are there. They’re ready to marshal us into the parking spot and put chocks around the gears so that we know it’s secure and won’t roll once we park and shut down the engines. So we really don’t have anything to deal with, other than just getting to the spot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you’ve landed are you greeted by press? Do the media want to do interviews?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.225680405452, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A couple years ago on the way from Fort Worth we did a flyover of the JSC area in December."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we couldn’t land because of the weight. We did a couple circuits around the JSC area and a couple flybys at Ellington. We did a flyby at Intercontinental Airport on the way to Louisiana. It just worked out to where we could route it that way. Any time we’re flying a ferry mission, we get lots of calls to try and do flybys. That has to be approved by the Shuttle Program, because they control the Orbiter.\\n\\n We don’t decide where to do flybys, the SCA crew. We get told we’d like to do a flyby here or there, because they manage that risk. We just fly it when they tell us to. Now with the JSC flight, we worked out a little route. They just say, “Do a flyby at JSC.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was neat. I do remember that, going out, getting that e-mail. How many missions have you flown from Edwards to KSC? Do you know offhand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I’d have to look, but I would think probably 40 or more just guessing. That includes some KSC to Palmdale flights too so probably 40 plus missions total since ’89."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your final ferry flight that you did?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.361867117168888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we couldn’t land because of the weight. We did a couple circuits around the JSC area and a couple flybys at Ellington. We did a flyby at Intercontinental Airport on the way to Louisiana. It just worked out to where we could route it that way. Any time we’re flying a ferry mission, we get lots of calls to try and do flybys. That has to be approved by the Shuttle Program, because they control the Orbiter.\\n\\n We don’t decide where to do flybys, the SCA crew. We get told we’d like to do a flyby here or there, because they manage that risk. We just fly it when they tell us to. Now with the JSC flight, we worked out a little route. They just say, “Do a flyby at JSC.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was neat. I do remember that, going out, getting that e-mail. How many missions have you flown from Edwards to KSC? Do you know offhand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I’d have to look, but I would think probably 40 or more just guessing. That includes some KSC to Palmdale flights too so probably 40 plus missions total since ’89."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your final ferry flight that you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Last one, let’s see. I don’t have my records here to know the last one I did. When was the last time we landed at Edwards?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was trying to think about that this morning."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 33.73540790796543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I’d have to look, but I would think probably 40 or more just guessing. That includes some KSC to Palmdale flights too so probably 40 plus missions total since ’89."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your final ferry flight that you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Last one, let’s see. I don’t have my records here to know the last one I did. When was the last time we landed at Edwards?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was trying to think about that this morning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "2009?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably, yes, it’s been a while, because they try to land at the Cape."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 31.928231008850478, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Last one, let’s see. I don’t have my records here to know the last one I did. When was the last time we landed at Edwards?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was trying to think about that this morning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "2009?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably, yes, it’s been a while, because they try to land at the Cape."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did that Endeavour flyover in 2008, December ’08 I think it was. Then it was the following year. So it’s been a couple years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some of the more memorable ferrying flights that stand out in your memory?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.475812232056086, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "2009?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably, yes, it’s been a while, because they try to land at the Cape."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did that Endeavour flyover in 2008, December ’08 I think it was. Then it was the following year. So it’s been a couple years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some of the more memorable ferrying flights that stand out in your memory?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first one that I did, when I walked out to do the preflight on the airplane at Kelly Air Force Base [Texas], I walked around and said, “Wow!” So to get to do the first one that you did. Then the one where we flew Endeavour flyover was special because of getting to show people. One time we went to Salt Lake City [Utah] on the way to Palmdale, and there were just thousands and thousands of people lining the roads. We got there a little late because of some Pathfinder issues. Military airplane had problems. It was late in the afternoon, and people were using their flashes as we flew over at 1,500 feet, trying to take a picture of this airplane flying over. We circled the area quite a bit. There was just thousands of people.\\n\\n Then the next day we delayed taking off for a while. They had a bunch of schoolkids come out, gave tours, TV and stuff. They’re all special. The first one, and then each one is unique, and each one has some special stuff to it. It can be very tiring because you’re getting up very early in the morning. You typically have a long duty day, because we show up for briefing two hours before takeoff, and that’s 20 minutes before sunrise. So when you leave Dryden, it’s 45 minutes from town to Edwards. So you’re looking at a pretty early getup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s like 2:00 in the morning? If you’re on Houston time, that’s four. How long would your day typically be after you flew?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 24.97312470228454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did that Endeavour flyover in 2008, December ’08 I think it was. Then it was the following year. So it’s been a couple years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some of the more memorable ferrying flights that stand out in your memory?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first one that I did, when I walked out to do the preflight on the airplane at Kelly Air Force Base [Texas], I walked around and said, “Wow!” So to get to do the first one that you did. Then the one where we flew Endeavour flyover was special because of getting to show people. One time we went to Salt Lake City [Utah] on the way to Palmdale, and there were just thousands and thousands of people lining the roads. We got there a little late because of some Pathfinder issues. Military airplane had problems. It was late in the afternoon, and people were using their flashes as we flew over at 1,500 feet, trying to take a picture of this airplane flying over. We circled the area quite a bit. There was just thousands of people.\\n\\n Then the next day we delayed taking off for a while. They had a bunch of schoolkids come out, gave tours, TV and stuff. They’re all special. The first one, and then each one is unique, and each one has some special stuff to it. It can be very tiring because you’re getting up very early in the morning. You typically have a long duty day, because we show up for briefing two hours before takeoff, and that’s 20 minutes before sunrise. So when you leave Dryden, it’s 45 minutes from town to Edwards. So you’re looking at a pretty early getup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s like 2:00 in the morning? If you’re on Houston time, that’s four. How long would your day typically be after you flew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our duty day is 14 hours. So from the time we show up to the time we leave the airplane can’t be more than 14 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours does it take to fly from Edwards to the Cape?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.744598397882147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our duty day is 14 hours. So from the time we show up to the time we leave the airplane can’t be more than 14 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours does it take to fly from Edwards to the Cape?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it depends on how many stops we’ll make. If you just make one stop, it’s about—I’m going to round it up—it’s about seven hours. It’s about three and a half hours from Edwards to Kelly, and then about three and a half more from Kelly to the Cape, depending on the tailwinds. So you got two, three hours on the ground at Kelly. You got a couple hours on the ground at Edwards. Then when you land you’ve got to stop on the runway. They got to do the safety check. Then they got to tow us in the mate/demate facility. We get off right before they tow us into the facility. So it can be two plus seven plus three plus an hour. So easily 12 hours, if the weather is good. Now that’s if we just land and refuel and go. If we have to spend the night, then you add a couple more hours onto that each way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many gallons of fuel does the SCA use typically on a flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Depends on the weight of the Orbiter. The airplane, the lighter it is, the less fuel it uses. On a typical end-of-mission ferry weight it averages about 38,500 pounds per hour. Now divide that by 6.7. I’m not going to do that in my head with the recorder going. If you divide 38,500 by 6.7 that’ll give you the gallons per hour. It burns about 130 pounds per nautical mile of flight. So it’s burning 20 gallons every mile, something like that. Is that right? If it’s 130—I’d have to do the math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of fuel. That adds a lot of weight too."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.493998219869052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it depends on how many stops we’ll make. If you just make one stop, it’s about—I’m going to round it up—it’s about seven hours. It’s about three and a half hours from Edwards to Kelly, and then about three and a half more from Kelly to the Cape, depending on the tailwinds. So you got two, three hours on the ground at Kelly. You got a couple hours on the ground at Edwards. Then when you land you’ve got to stop on the runway. They got to do the safety check. Then they got to tow us in the mate/demate facility. We get off right before they tow us into the facility. So it can be two plus seven plus three plus an hour. So easily 12 hours, if the weather is good. Now that’s if we just land and refuel and go. If we have to spend the night, then you add a couple more hours onto that each way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many gallons of fuel does the SCA use typically on a flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Depends on the weight of the Orbiter. The airplane, the lighter it is, the less fuel it uses. On a typical end-of-mission ferry weight it averages about 38,500 pounds per hour. Now divide that by 6.7. I’m not going to do that in my head with the recorder going. If you divide 38,500 by 6.7 that’ll give you the gallons per hour. It burns about 130 pounds per nautical mile of flight. So it’s burning 20 gallons every mile, something like that. Is that right? If it’s 130—I’d have to do the math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of fuel. That adds a lot of weight too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not fuel-efficient. We’re flying low because the Orbiter has altitude temperature restriction. So if we could fly higher with the Orbiter we could use less fuel. Eastbound is 15,000 feet typically, and we average about 38,500 over a three-and-a-half-hour flight. That’s a good round number."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me just in general how the 747 was modified."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.437775799854503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Depends on the weight of the Orbiter. The airplane, the lighter it is, the less fuel it uses. On a typical end-of-mission ferry weight it averages about 38,500 pounds per hour. Now divide that by 6.7. I’m not going to do that in my head with the recorder going. If you divide 38,500 by 6.7 that’ll give you the gallons per hour. It burns about 130 pounds per nautical mile of flight. So it’s burning 20 gallons every mile, something like that. Is that right? If it’s 130—I’d have to do the math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of fuel. That adds a lot of weight too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not fuel-efficient. We’re flying low because the Orbiter has altitude temperature restriction. So if we could fly higher with the Orbiter we could use less fuel. Eastbound is 15,000 feet typically, and we average about 38,500 over a three-and-a-half-hour flight. That’s a good round number."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me just in general how the 747 was modified."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The airplanes were modified by Boeing. Inside the airplane, where the aft attach point is, there are two bulkheads that go down into the belly of the airplane that support the weight where the Orbiter is mounted, both in the vertical mounts, and then there’s a horizontal mount that goes forward of that. So there’s a bulkhead there. There’s also one for the front mount. There’s also extra layers of skin added in various stress points throughout the airplane. Two and three layers on the outside of the airplane in places where the engineering decided that’s where the stress is going to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That skin, is that extra aluminum?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.597528666505003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not fuel-efficient. We’re flying low because the Orbiter has altitude temperature restriction. So if we could fly higher with the Orbiter we could use less fuel. Eastbound is 15,000 feet typically, and we average about 38,500 over a three-and-a-half-hour flight. That’s a good round number."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me just in general how the 747 was modified."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The airplanes were modified by Boeing. Inside the airplane, where the aft attach point is, there are two bulkheads that go down into the belly of the airplane that support the weight where the Orbiter is mounted, both in the vertical mounts, and then there’s a horizontal mount that goes forward of that. So there’s a bulkhead there. There’s also one for the front mount. There’s also extra layers of skin added in various stress points throughout the airplane. Two and three layers on the outside of the airplane in places where the engineering decided that’s where the stress is going to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That skin, is that extra aluminum?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now NASA has had two SCAs over the years. I think in your notes you had mentioned you went out to Wichita [Kansas] to oversee some of those mods [modifications]."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.552809629450003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The airplanes were modified by Boeing. Inside the airplane, where the aft attach point is, there are two bulkheads that go down into the belly of the airplane that support the weight where the Orbiter is mounted, both in the vertical mounts, and then there’s a horizontal mount that goes forward of that. So there’s a bulkhead there. There’s also one for the front mount. There’s also extra layers of skin added in various stress points throughout the airplane. Two and three layers on the outside of the airplane in places where the engineering decided that’s where the stress is going to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That skin, is that extra aluminum?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now NASA has had two SCAs over the years. I think in your notes you had mentioned you went out to Wichita [Kansas] to oversee some of those mods [modifications]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The second airplane, the modification started in ’88. It was finished in late 1990. I was also working in quality assurance. So I spent some time at Wichita, as did other people, monitoring that contract, and looking at the work that was being done. Its first time carrying the Orbiter was when we carried Endeavour on its maiden flight out of Palmdale. I was on that first takeoff. So that was interesting. The first time we used that 747, and the first time that Orbiter had flown, that was a memorable flight too, that first time with that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does NASA still maintain both of those SCAs?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 19.5031218105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now NASA has had two SCAs over the years. I think in your notes you had mentioned you went out to Wichita [Kansas] to oversee some of those mods [modifications]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The second airplane, the modification started in ’88. It was finished in late 1990. I was also working in quality assurance. So I spent some time at Wichita, as did other people, monitoring that contract, and looking at the work that was being done. Its first time carrying the Orbiter was when we carried Endeavour on its maiden flight out of Palmdale. I was on that first takeoff. So that was interesting. The first time we used that 747, and the first time that Orbiter had flown, that was a memorable flight too, that first time with that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does NASA still maintain both of those SCAs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both airplanes are currently maintained, although probably in the next few months we’re going to have one just in final storage because we just will need one to take Orbiters to museums."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the SCA used for anything else besides the SOFIA program and the Orbiters? Is there anything else that NASA uses the SCA for?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.966817050000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both airplanes are currently maintained, although probably in the next few months we’re going to have one just in final storage because we just will need one to take Orbiters to museums."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the SCA used for anything else besides the SOFIA program and the Orbiters? Is there anything else that NASA uses the SCA for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not currently used for SOFIA, but it’s supposed to be transferred to them for use. Now we a couple years ago, actually a year and a half ago, we carried an unmanned vehicle called a Phantom Ray from St. Louis [Missouri] to Edwards for Boeing. We did a flight test to determine how that vehicle would respond. Because it was unmanned, they were not allowed to fly it from St. Louis to California over the populated US on its first flight. They didn’t have the flight facilities in St. Louis where they could do it. They wanted to do it in California. So over a many-month period they designed an adapter to mate to our mounting points. Then they mated their vehicle to that adapter, and we flew it nonstop from St. Louis to Edwards for them.\\n\\n First of all we did an hour flight test with a photo-chase airplane to see how it would handle, because there’s some unknowns. Then we did some inspections to make sure it hadn’t caused any problems. Then the next day it was like a 5.8-hour flight from St. Louis to LA, because we did it low at altitude and reduced speed. You can Google that. It looks like a little mosquito on top of the airplane. It was like 30-something-foot wingspan. With the adapter it weighed like 30,000 pounds. But it’s an interesting picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll have to go out and look at that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It made the national news on the day we did the flight test. Flying around St. Louis. It’s interesting-looking, it’s like a little bug."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not quite as big or as heavy as the Shuttle."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.4075745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not currently used for SOFIA, but it’s supposed to be transferred to them for use. Now we a couple years ago, actually a year and a half ago, we carried an unmanned vehicle called a Phantom Ray from St. Louis [Missouri] to Edwards for Boeing. We did a flight test to determine how that vehicle would respond. Because it was unmanned, they were not allowed to fly it from St. Louis to California over the populated US on its first flight. They didn’t have the flight facilities in St. Louis where they could do it. They wanted to do it in California. So over a many-month period they designed an adapter to mate to our mounting points. Then they mated their vehicle to that adapter, and we flew it nonstop from St. Louis to Edwards for them.\\n\\n First of all we did an hour flight test with a photo-chase airplane to see how it would handle, because there’s some unknowns. Then we did some inspections to make sure it hadn’t caused any problems. Then the next day it was like a 5.8-hour flight from St. Louis to LA, because we did it low at altitude and reduced speed. You can Google that. It looks like a little mosquito on top of the airplane. It was like 30-something-foot wingspan. With the adapter it weighed like 30,000 pounds. But it’s an interesting picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll have to go out and look at that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It made the national news on the day we did the flight test. Flying around St. Louis. It’s interesting-looking, it’s like a little bug."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not quite as big or as heavy as the Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’ve had requests to do other things with the airplane. Mostly it’s just been used for carrying Shuttles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s been that workhorse for all these years."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.897305000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It made the national news on the day we did the flight test. Flying around St. Louis. It’s interesting-looking, it’s like a little bug."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not quite as big or as heavy as the Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’ve had requests to do other things with the airplane. Mostly it’s just been used for carrying Shuttles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s been that workhorse for all these years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s its job. Don’t want to take any chances on anything happening while doing something else. They agreed to use it for that Phantom Ray project, because we still had two airplanes. There was a time period where we could do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess I do have one other question that I hadn’t thought about. Obviously the Shuttle, you didn’t always know where you were going to land because of weather. So were you ever working on the possibility of it landing at Edwards, and it didn’t end up landing there, but you had to be prepared in case there was that contingency landing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.441450000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’ve had requests to do other things with the airplane. Mostly it’s just been used for carrying Shuttles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s been that workhorse for all these years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s its job. Don’t want to take any chances on anything happening while doing something else. They agreed to use it for that Phantom Ray project, because we still had two airplanes. There was a time period where we could do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess I do have one other question that I hadn’t thought about. Obviously the Shuttle, you didn’t always know where you were going to land because of weather. So were you ever working on the possibility of it landing at Edwards, and it didn’t end up landing there, but you had to be prepared in case there was that contingency landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Every mission we would put together a plan just in case. The Shuttle Program would be looking at the weather ahead of time and trying to decide whether to activate Edwards, to have it ready just in case, because the forecast at the Cape was bad. So we would be actively working on plans, especially sometimes during a Shuttle mission. To say it’s looking more and more like they might go to Edwards so we’ll sharpen our pencils."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far in advance do you have to be out at California? Or do you wait a couple days?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, once we go there we stay there till we leave. I have gone out and spent anywhere from one or two days to a week waiting to leave. Once you get out there there’s no reason to turn around and come back. You just stay until you’re ready to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I tried to be pretty thorough. But is there something you think I may have overlooked about ferrying operations or the SCA or any anecdotes or stories that you would like to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is a personal one. It’s a very sad time for me, to see this come to an end. To me, it’s such a wonderful program. I just hate to see it come to an end. There has been a lot of discussion about as we take them to museums should we do any touring around, make several stops on the way to each museum. Yesterday there was a meeting at Headquarters, and they decided not to do any extra flying around for a variety of reasons although the White House may push back on that. I’m not sure how much I should really say about that, because the Headquarters, White House, there’s going to be going back and forth about that.\\n\\n What they call the Executive Council, which is the Administrator and all the wheels and all the Center Directors, they have this NASA team. They decided they didn’t want to expose the vehicles to any more hazards than necessary as they take them to museums. Plus there’s some cost issues which are not trivial. It’ll be great for people to see them in museums, but I don’t think it’s time. My personal opinion, not an official NASA opinion, my personal opinion is we shouldn’t have retired them this early. That’s how that goes. I sure wish they were still flying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of people we’ve interviewed for this project have talked about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s bittersweet. It’s a sad time. I spent my whole life. I came to work a year and a half before the first Shuttle launch. I’ll be here probably for a year and a half after the last landing—it won’t be the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s changing the Center, that’s for sure."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is a personal one. It’s a very sad time for me, to see this come to an end. To me, it’s such a wonderful program. I just hate to see it come to an end. There has been a lot of discussion about as we take them to museums should we do any touring around, make several stops on the way to each museum. Yesterday there was a meeting at Headquarters, and they decided not to do any extra flying around for a variety of reasons although the White House may push back on that. I’m not sure how much I should really say about that, because the Headquarters, White House, there’s going to be going back and forth about that.\\n\\n What they call the Executive Council, which is the Administrator and all the wheels and all the Center Directors, they have this NASA team. They decided they didn’t want to expose the vehicles to any more hazards than necessary as they take them to museums. Plus there’s some cost issues which are not trivial. It’ll be great for people to see them in museums, but I don’t think it’s time. My personal opinion, not an official NASA opinion, my personal opinion is we shouldn’t have retired them this early. That’s how that goes. I sure wish they were still flying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of people we’ve interviewed for this project have talked about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s bittersweet. It’s a sad time. I spent my whole life. I came to work a year and a half before the first Shuttle launch. I’ll be here probably for a year and a half after the last landing—it won’t be the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s changing the Center, that’s for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s changing not just the Center but the agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to see the launch of STS-1?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00716:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s bittersweet. It’s a sad time. I spent my whole life. I came to work a year and a half before the first Shuttle launch. I’ll be here probably for a year and a half after the last landing—it won’t be the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s changing the Center, that’s for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s changing not just the Center but the agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to see the launch of STS-1?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First launch I went to was STS-3. First landing I watched was STS-4 at Edwards. Then I’ve been to a lot of launches and landings since then. One of the other airplanes I’ve flown is the Shuttle Training Aircraft, which is a modified Gulfstream II which has half the cockpit like the Orbiter, half like a regular airplane. We used it to train Shuttle pilots to land the Shuttle. So I started flying with it in 1981."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you trained Steve Nagel, I guess."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00806:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jean-Loup Chretien, who was the first person outside Russia or America to perform a space walk. He's a French cosmonaut. In fact, he's the chief of the Spationaut Office in France. They call them spacionauts. He flew with us. He had been on Mir before and had flown with Titov before, nine years earlier, and so here he was on Mir for the second time. And so they had some reminiscing to do when they got up on Mir. Jean-Loup did a great job with us.\\n\\n Titov, by the way, showed us the bunkroom that he spent a year off the planet and showed where he signed the wall with his signature, and you can still see it, you know, millions of, billions, maybe, of miles later, here's his name up there, so it was pretty interesting being on board the Mir with cosmonauts who had flown it when it first was up in space, so it was pretty interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I really appreciate your time. What time we had scheduled with you is up, and we don't want to take any more unless you have more to give us, because it's certainly up to you and your schedule."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. We thank you and wish you the best of luck. Your job may be finished with Shuttle-Mir, but I am sure that they are full every day doing more for whatever projects you're assigned to next."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'd still love to get back there some day, because I'm not finished with the training part and the flying part. Hopefully, I'll get to go fly again. It's an awful lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We wish you the best of luck. Hope you do, too."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00897:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.73796436270955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trained as a chemist—I have a PhD in theoretical physical chemistry—and as I was finishing that up, I realized I wanted to work in an area that utilized chemistry to solve problems as opposed to just investigating fundamental chemistry. I’d always been interested in environmental science, especially atmospheric science, and I was able to audit some classes when I was in graduate school. Got exposed to that. Through that, identified a post-doc—they let me change fields—and after that, I was able to get hired on to NASA following the post-doc, and been at NASA over 25 years now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You started working at the [NASA] Goddard Space Flight Center [Greenbelt, Maryland]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My post-doc was at the U.S. Naval Research Lab [NRL, Potomac River, Washington D.C.], but then I joined a little northward migration of some people from the NRL to Goddard, and I started at Goddard in December ’83."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sort of projects were you working on there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked in what’s now considered the Atmospheric Chemistry and Dynamics Branch. I was a chemist working mainly with a bunch of meteorologists and physicists, there really to bring chemical expertise to a multi-disciplinary project. It was called at the time SGCCM, the Stratospheric General Circulation with Chemistry Modeling project, because the idea was to build numerical models of the stratosphere that included chemistry and meteorology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this a result of the Clean Air Act?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00897:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.04218262523283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My post-doc was at the U.S. Naval Research Lab [NRL, Potomac River, Washington D.C.], but then I joined a little northward migration of some people from the NRL to Goddard, and I started at Goddard in December ’83."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sort of projects were you working on there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked in what’s now considered the Atmospheric Chemistry and Dynamics Branch. I was a chemist working mainly with a bunch of meteorologists and physicists, there really to bring chemical expertise to a multi-disciplinary project. It was called at the time SGCCM, the Stratospheric General Circulation with Chemistry Modeling project, because the idea was to build numerical models of the stratosphere that included chemistry and meteorology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this a result of the Clean Air Act?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it all went back to the fact that NASA had a mandate to study stratospheric ozone. We did a lot of observations, and we also had the modeling effort. So I got involved in looking at satellite observations and especially trying to interpret satellite observations of stratospheric composition and building models to simulate things, to look both ways, to use the models and use the data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this what you were working on when you first heard about Earth System Science?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00897:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.7135362502587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked in what’s now considered the Atmospheric Chemistry and Dynamics Branch. I was a chemist working mainly with a bunch of meteorologists and physicists, there really to bring chemical expertise to a multi-disciplinary project. It was called at the time SGCCM, the Stratospheric General Circulation with Chemistry Modeling project, because the idea was to build numerical models of the stratosphere that included chemistry and meteorology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this a result of the Clean Air Act?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it all went back to the fact that NASA had a mandate to study stratospheric ozone. We did a lot of observations, and we also had the modeling effort. So I got involved in looking at satellite observations and especially trying to interpret satellite observations of stratospheric composition and building models to simulate things, to look both ways, to use the models and use the data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this what you were working on when you first heard about Earth System Science?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s really how I got into it. I was working in atmospheric chemistry, which was a small discipline of its own or a poor step-cousin of meteorology. But it was a growing field, because the whole ozone issue had made it a moderately hot field. So there were a lot of interesting things to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think when people started looking at the Earth as an entire system? What did you think of that idea, being a chemist?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00897:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 40.792818055843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it all went back to the fact that NASA had a mandate to study stratospheric ozone. We did a lot of observations, and we also had the modeling effort. So I got involved in looking at satellite observations and especially trying to interpret satellite observations of stratospheric composition and building models to simulate things, to look both ways, to use the models and use the data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this what you were working on when you first heard about Earth System Science?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s really how I got into it. I was working in atmospheric chemistry, which was a small discipline of its own or a poor step-cousin of meteorology. But it was a growing field, because the whole ozone issue had made it a moderately hot field. So there were a lot of interesting things to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think when people started looking at the Earth as an entire system? What did you think of that idea, being a chemist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me, chemistry’s a pretty obvious entrée into that world because you can think at the molecular level, and a lot of the things that are of interest really involve chemical reactions that release and take up your trace gases, whether it’s how do things get into the atmosphere from the Earth’s surface; how do things get from the Earth’s atmosphere back into the surface; how are things transformed; how do things change phase? So those are all, in some sense, chemical questions. Then also, since a lot of what we do at NASA is remote sensing; you could sort of look at it as applied spectroscopy, which is also chemical. That’s still a yardstick that I bring to it, since I have really no formal training in disciplines like meteorology or oceanography or geology or anything else. So I tend to default to thinking at a molecular level, but I’ll think about it in terms of the big picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you expect would come of the Earth System Science program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 31.759345208147824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm doing good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I should say ni sa bula vinaka. I got to get a little bit of Fijian in here. So we're in Seattle today, a beautiful day, and recording outside, so hopefully there won't be any distracting sounds. But if there were, it would be just another day in Fiji, wouldn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So tell me about yourself, Steve. Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Seattle, in west Seattle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, around this area?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 28.621494675719806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So tell me about yourself, Steve. Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Seattle, in west Seattle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, around this area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually very close to this area. It just happened when we were looking for a house many years later, when I was about 38 years old, my wife Leela, who I met and married in Fiji, liked this area. Right now where we're sitting, Jack, is about one mile from the Fauntleroy Ferry Dock where I grew up, three blocks from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's interesting. So I'll bet you've seen this area grow as well. And you were in Fiji at a time between, I'll say, the technological age when they started getting TV and so on. We'll get into that a little bit. But for the moment, let me stay focused on your training. Where did you learn your health sciences?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.246105195244226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Seattle, in west Seattle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, around this area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually very close to this area. It just happened when we were looking for a house many years later, when I was about 38 years old, my wife Leela, who I met and married in Fiji, liked this area. Right now where we're sitting, Jack, is about one mile from the Fauntleroy Ferry Dock where I grew up, three blocks from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's interesting. So I'll bet you've seen this area grow as well. And you were in Fiji at a time between, I'll say, the technological age when they started getting TV and so on. We'll get into that a little bit. But for the moment, let me stay focused on your training. Where did you learn your health sciences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned my health sciences at basically Shoreline Community College and Seattle Community College. I took a course back in 1969, 1970, as a surgical technician, where I'd be passing instruments and sutures, either be sterile and work with the surgeons or be the circulate and essentially do what a circulating nurse does. And then a decade later, I was introduced to a program at Shoreline Community College for medical laboratory technicians, and I needed a year's college basic sciences to get in that program. That was very competitive. There were about 113 people looking at 13 openings, and so I managed to ace and get in the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had some experience under your belt. How old were you when you joined?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 31.168031105239784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned my health sciences at basically Shoreline Community College and Seattle Community College. I took a course back in 1969, 1970, as a surgical technician, where I'd be passing instruments and sutures, either be sterile and work with the surgeons or be the circulate and essentially do what a circulating nurse does. And then a decade later, I was introduced to a program at Shoreline Community College for medical laboratory technicians, and I needed a year's college basic sciences to get in that program. That was very competitive. There were about 113 people looking at 13 openings, and so I managed to ace and get in the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had some experience under your belt. How old were you when you joined?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, when I joined Peace Corps, I was 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just turned 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's a little bit older than the average volunteer. So you trained in science, health sciences, and how did you actually find out about the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 30.186701228044203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, when I joined Peace Corps, I was 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just turned 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's a little bit older than the average volunteer. So you trained in science, health sciences, and how did you actually find out about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a friend that was a Dutch citizen that was living here in Seattle, and I was lamenting the fact that I just didn't know what was happening. After six years working as a medical technologist at Swedish Hospital here in Seattle, it didn't feel like that was what I wanted to do the rest of my life. I wanted to help people. I wanted to travel. I wanted to do something that would make a difference to somebody. And the Dutch friend said he knew somebody who'd been a Peace Corps volunteer, set me up with basically an interview with her, and went to a bar in North Seattle and talked to her. And she was very enthusiastic about her Peace Corps history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she in Fiji?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 32.429668031160226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just turned 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's a little bit older than the average volunteer. So you trained in science, health sciences, and how did you actually find out about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a friend that was a Dutch citizen that was living here in Seattle, and I was lamenting the fact that I just didn't know what was happening. After six years working as a medical technologist at Swedish Hospital here in Seattle, it didn't feel like that was what I wanted to do the rest of my life. I wanted to help people. I wanted to travel. I wanted to do something that would make a difference to somebody. And the Dutch friend said he knew somebody who'd been a Peace Corps volunteer, set me up with basically an interview with her, and went to a bar in North Seattle and talked to her. And she was very enthusiastic about her Peace Corps history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she in Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And no, she was not in Fiji. I believe she was in an African country, but it's been a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So then you approached the Peace Corps and what kind of reaction did you get from them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 34.921853367955805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a friend that was a Dutch citizen that was living here in Seattle, and I was lamenting the fact that I just didn't know what was happening. After six years working as a medical technologist at Swedish Hospital here in Seattle, it didn't feel like that was what I wanted to do the rest of my life. I wanted to help people. I wanted to travel. I wanted to do something that would make a difference to somebody. And the Dutch friend said he knew somebody who'd been a Peace Corps volunteer, set me up with basically an interview with her, and went to a bar in North Seattle and talked to her. And she was very enthusiastic about her Peace Corps history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she in Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And no, she was not in Fiji. I believe she was in an African country, but it's been a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So then you approached the Peace Corps and what kind of reaction did you get from them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was positive reaction, at least comfortably positive, and it took me quite a while, although I understand it generally takes people a while. From the time I signed up for Peace Corps, it was just a little over a year before I was finally accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was Fiji your first offer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.80205929772867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And no, she was not in Fiji. I believe she was in an African country, but it's been a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So then you approached the Peace Corps and what kind of reaction did you get from them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was positive reaction, at least comfortably positive, and it took me quite a while, although I understand it generally takes people a while. From the time I signed up for Peace Corps, it was just a little over a year before I was finally accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was Fiji your first offer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at the time I asked about where I'd go and they said, well, we're not a travel agency and Pacific, Asia, we have a lot of different, you could go to Africa. So I said Pacific and Asia would be my preferences and they seemed to focus on that, which included the Caribbean. So when it came down to it, after about nine months, I'd gotten all this stuff out of the way. I was legal, didn't have a criminal record, and had a bona fide divorce. I wasn't running away from any women here. And so they told me that they had three finalist countries. One was Jamaica, one was Belize in Central America, and one was Fiji. And about two months later, I still had heard virtually nothing from Peace Corps. And one day the phone rang and they said, we'd like to invite you to a position in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice. And did you know anything about Fiji?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.00228810858741, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was positive reaction, at least comfortably positive, and it took me quite a while, although I understand it generally takes people a while. From the time I signed up for Peace Corps, it was just a little over a year before I was finally accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was Fiji your first offer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at the time I asked about where I'd go and they said, well, we're not a travel agency and Pacific, Asia, we have a lot of different, you could go to Africa. So I said Pacific and Asia would be my preferences and they seemed to focus on that, which included the Caribbean. So when it came down to it, after about nine months, I'd gotten all this stuff out of the way. I was legal, didn't have a criminal record, and had a bona fide divorce. I wasn't running away from any women here. And so they told me that they had three finalist countries. One was Jamaica, one was Belize in Central America, and one was Fiji. And about two months later, I still had heard virtually nothing from Peace Corps. And one day the phone rang and they said, we'd like to invite you to a position in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice. And did you know anything about Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really knew next to nothing about Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew where it was?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.558097898430454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at the time I asked about where I'd go and they said, well, we're not a travel agency and Pacific, Asia, we have a lot of different, you could go to Africa. So I said Pacific and Asia would be my preferences and they seemed to focus on that, which included the Caribbean. So when it came down to it, after about nine months, I'd gotten all this stuff out of the way. I was legal, didn't have a criminal record, and had a bona fide divorce. I wasn't running away from any women here. And so they told me that they had three finalist countries. One was Jamaica, one was Belize in Central America, and one was Fiji. And about two months later, I still had heard virtually nothing from Peace Corps. And one day the phone rang and they said, we'd like to invite you to a position in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice. And did you know anything about Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really knew next to nothing about Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew where it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably could not have found it very quickly on a map."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's funny. I think everybody knows Fiji from Fiji Water probably."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 39.508997664922724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really knew next to nothing about Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew where it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably could not have found it very quickly on a map."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's funny. I think everybody knows Fiji from Fiji Water probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nowadays, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So where did you do your training or staging?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 37.23221962769191, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably could not have found it very quickly on a map."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's funny. I think everybody knows Fiji from Fiji Water probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nowadays, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So where did you do your training or staging?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Staging was held in San Francisco in an older hotel in the Tenderloin district. And it was just a bit over a week in early July of 1986. And most of the other people there were volunteers going to Fiji, although they actually flew in two people from Fiji who were on Peace Corps staff there. So I met the Fiji nurse who was name was Wynu Thonganili Walala, and Wynu, who was a very popular lady, gave us our first gamma globulin shots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I remember that. Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.92468847521323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nowadays, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So where did you do your training or staging?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Staging was held in San Francisco in an older hotel in the Tenderloin district. And it was just a bit over a week in early July of 1986. And most of the other people there were volunteers going to Fiji, although they actually flew in two people from Fiji who were on Peace Corps staff there. So I met the Fiji nurse who was name was Wynu Thonganili Walala, and Wynu, who was a very popular lady, gave us our first gamma globulin shots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I remember that. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a couple of other people who had worked. Lau Penarth, an Indian Fijian woman who was married to an Indian man who was in the process of leaving Fiji and going to New York. But she also flew out to San Francisco and talked to us about what to expect. And we even did a few demos of how you would approach somebody if you're in a restaurant where there's very few tables. It's normal in Fiji just to share a table with other people. You just say, may I sit here? And they say, sure, come on. And so we did that kind of thing just to sort of break the ice with some Americans that weren't really used to people being that flexible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you had some Fiji food in San Francisco or where?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 27.317816838426925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not in San Francisco. It wasn't until the training continued once we got in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And while we had a base in Nadi at the Nadi Hotel, after a week or ten days, we were sent in two different groups up to Ba, which is in northern Viti Levu, the main island, a very hot area. And I stayed with an Indian family, Sada and Savita and their two children, and they helped me learn a little bit of Fiji Hindi it's called. It's similar to Hindi, but it has a Fiji flavor to it. And they also taught me a little bit about how they cooked on their little kerosene stove on the floor, and made quite a few different Indian meals for me while I stayed with them, and went to a couple of Indian related events. And then finished up with Ba and went back to Nadi to the Nadi Hotel for another week or so, where we jumped out to southern part, the southeastern part of Viti Levu in Serua province.\n\nI was sent to a small village called, a Fijian village named Vunibau. And Vunibau was right on the South Pacific Ocean. You could walk out on a beach every morning. We had Peace Corps trainers that had come from Fiji and they helped us learn the language. Fijian guys would talk Fijian, the Indian guys would, and women, would talk Hindi, Fiji Hindi to us. And we just had a good time and learned a lot and sort of crammed both languages, which turned out we didn't need that much later. But I think that having a handle on both languages really helped with the experience, knowing what you're getting into, what people are experiencing, just sort of breaking the ice and feeling a little more like a local, even though you're definitely not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So how long did your training actually last all together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I believe the training was set to be three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three months, OK. And what were your first impressions then after the training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.034341775835706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I believe the training was set to be three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three months, OK. And what were your first impressions then after the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After the training, I was really enthusiastic. We had been pretty much kept on the western side of the island, except for Vunibau was a little over the border into the eastern side. But I think a lot of people were really interested to see Suva. Suva is the capital of Fiji. And Suva, to the best of my knowledge, is the largest city in the South Pacific, aside from Australia and New Zealand cities. So largest South Pacific city, had a lot of history, and when we finally got there we were able to spend almost five or six weeks. Once we were all given our assignments where we needed to go, I was told that I'd be going to Kadavu Island, which is Fiji's fourth largest island, to the south of Suva, about 90 kilometers way out there in the South Pacific.\n\nSo I got ready by buying a mattress, a full mattress, buying all the things, kitchen utensils, pots and pans, clothing, things that I thought I'd need, including clothespins, for doing my own wash, and was ready to go. And I found out that Peace Corps basically expected us to learn the way things are done locally. And that meant looking in the shipping section of the Fiji Times newspaper, finding when the next boat is going to Kadavu, and going down to the wharf and talking to the people and arranging your own transit on that boat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So other than the initial training, how much support did you get from the Peace Corps office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were basically given gamma globulin shots I believe every three months, and for that we would need to go to Suva. So I'd say a lot of support. Certainly they had a number we could call at any time if we had a telephone. In Kadavu, that was mostly radio telephone, so a little more difficult. But Peace Corps was really supportive in my opinion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about monetary support?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.14926863981745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After the training, I was really enthusiastic. We had been pretty much kept on the western side of the island, except for Vunibau was a little over the border into the eastern side. But I think a lot of people were really interested to see Suva. Suva is the capital of Fiji. And Suva, to the best of my knowledge, is the largest city in the South Pacific, aside from Australia and New Zealand cities. So largest South Pacific city, had a lot of history, and when we finally got there we were able to spend almost five or six weeks. Once we were all given our assignments where we needed to go, I was told that I'd be going to Kadavu Island, which is Fiji's fourth largest island, to the south of Suva, about 90 kilometers way out there in the South Pacific.\n\nSo I got ready by buying a mattress, a full mattress, buying all the things, kitchen utensils, pots and pans, clothing, things that I thought I'd need, including clothespins, for doing my own wash, and was ready to go. And I found out that Peace Corps basically expected us to learn the way things are done locally. And that meant looking in the shipping section of the Fiji Times newspaper, finding when the next boat is going to Kadavu, and going down to the wharf and talking to the people and arranging your own transit on that boat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So other than the initial training, how much support did you get from the Peace Corps office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were basically given gamma globulin shots I believe every three months, and for that we would need to go to Suva. So I'd say a lot of support. Certainly they had a number we could call at any time if we had a telephone. In Kadavu, that was mostly radio telephone, so a little more difficult. But Peace Corps was really supportive in my opinion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about monetary support?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good in that we got a stipend every month and if we found housing that would cost us money, we were given a reasonable stipend for reasonable housing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you happen to recall how much that was?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.0547429331305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were basically given gamma globulin shots I believe every three months, and for that we would need to go to Suva. So I'd say a lot of support. Certainly they had a number we could call at any time if we had a telephone. In Kadavu, that was mostly radio telephone, so a little more difficult. But Peace Corps was really supportive in my opinion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about monetary support?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good in that we got a stipend every month and if we found housing that would cost us money, we were given a reasonable stipend for reasonable housing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you happen to recall how much that was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me in Kadavu, I was living in government housing, but I was only in Kadavu from September until December of 1986. So eventually when I ended up going to the Sigatoka Hospital in early '87, I was getting $100 a month for housing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that was the local per diem rate, because I recall they put some money aside for us after the service. And I'll ask you what you did with that money later. So at what point did you start your job?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.540113762867623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I started the job pretty much the same week that I arrived in Kadavu, which probably would have been the last week in September 1986. I remember I booked my passage on a boat called the Land Dolly. Its crew had three Fijian men and three Indian men. It was a small inter- island freighter. And I was told that, hey, there are some people from South Africa going with you. And I thought, this is great. I've never met anybody from South Africa. It was actually a white couple who vowed that they were not going back home to South Africa until apartheid was finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when we got to Kadavu, they really wanted me to come exploring with them. And I was sort of the nerd that wanted to just, hey, I needed to get started with my project for Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I said goodbye to them and they headed out over the northeast part of the island of Kadavu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hold that thought for just a moment, because you were there during a couple of coups. What was behind the coup?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.377904180964027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when we got to Kadavu, they really wanted me to come exploring with them. And I was sort of the nerd that wanted to just, hey, I needed to get started with my project for Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I said goodbye to them and they headed out over the northeast part of the island of Kadavu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hold that thought for just a moment, because you were there during a couple of coups. What was behind the coup?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the coups were later. But what was behind the coup was multifaceted. But I believe that now most people believe what I did at the time, and that's simply that it was an apartheid against the Indians. The Indians were at the time almost 45% of Fiji's population. These people had been in Fiji since the late 1800s. They had helped Fiji grow. They were the majority of the entrepreneurs in Fiji, the majority of the teachers in the tertiary and colleges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were the merchants and businessmen."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.419893534404473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I said goodbye to them and they headed out over the northeast part of the island of Kadavu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hold that thought for just a moment, because you were there during a couple of coups. What was behind the coup?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the coups were later. But what was behind the coup was multifaceted. But I believe that now most people believe what I did at the time, and that's simply that it was an apartheid against the Indians. The Indians were at the time almost 45% of Fiji's population. These people had been in Fiji since the late 1800s. They had helped Fiji grow. They were the majority of the entrepreneurs in Fiji, the majority of the teachers in the tertiary and colleges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were the merchants and businessmen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So how were you affected by the coup?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.577659482671635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the coups were later. But what was behind the coup was multifaceted. But I believe that now most people believe what I did at the time, and that's simply that it was an apartheid against the Indians. The Indians were at the time almost 45% of Fiji's population. These people had been in Fiji since the late 1800s. They had helped Fiji grow. They were the majority of the entrepreneurs in Fiji, the majority of the teachers in the tertiary and colleges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were the merchants and businessmen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So how were you affected by the coup?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was affected in many ways. Several rather unsavory things happened to me. We can discuss that later. But I at the time was very interested in a woman that was a nurse at Sigatoka Hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where you were working, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.419621647412928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So how were you affected by the coup?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was affected in many ways. Several rather unsavory things happened to me. We can discuss that later. But I at the time was very interested in a woman that was a nurse at Sigatoka Hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where you were working, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where I was every day, yes. And so I immediately was in Suva at the time, actually, I should point out, because Peace Corps had brought me in for a gamma globulin shot and my physical exam. And so it was actually that morning I went to see the contracted Fiji doctor, who was an Australian or New Zealand expatriate. I'm not sure. And she said, oh, are you going to go back? And I said, what? And she said, there was a bloody coup down there, right in Parliament, about a half a mile from where her office was located. And as soon as I got out of her thing, I went directly to the Peace Corps office and they, oh, everybody had sad faces. And this is shocking because the country has been taken over by a military government, and the newly elected prime minister, who was a Fijian man, also a doctor, a physician, had been deposed, arrested, and taken from power. And it was, it was really a shock. I really thought Fiji was going in a better, more improved direction, although we were also encouraged by Peace Corps that we should stay out of politics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's for sure. But you mentioned this other gentleman was arrested. What about yourself?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.12912916843915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I stayed because what I was doing, I felt, still helped the people of Fiji in a tiny way and really was pretty much unaffected by that. Second reason is, frankly, I was just curious. It was exciting, although it was scary as heck."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, we kind of glossed over what you were actually doing on the job. Can you elaborate on that a little bit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. What I was supposed to be doing was as a medical technologist, medical lab technician. Fiji School of Medicine graduated classes I believe every year. And I was supposed to have a counterpart at Sigatoka Hospital. Instead, there was a nurse who knew some basic laboratory testing, but in fact, it turned out that she really was very poorly trained and was doing things that would actually compromise some of the testing that she was doing. I remember she asked me one time, she was a native Fijian woman, and asked me one time what she thought, what I thought after, before the coup, but after the election of this guy, Timoci Bavadra, who is a Fijian man and had basically taken over after the guy who had been the Prime Minister of Fiji for about 17 years. So I told her, hey, you know, I think that it might be a good thing for Fiji. And she made a face that told me no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She as a Fijian did not believe that Dr. Bavadra was a good choice for Fiji. So very soon after she left and I was the only person in the lab and I learned that nobody was going to replace me. So I went on trying to look at what I could buy for the laboratory if I could get some grants. And it became immediately obvious that any grant proposals that I could write to Australia and New Zealand weren't going to fly because this country was under martial law. It had had a military coup. Australia and New Zealand were very violently staying away from Fiji politics. They didn't believe what was going on was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, I'm getting shivers just hearing this. So you stayed in country. You were threatened by the authorities. They released you without charges, I understand."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.147073047455738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She as a Fijian did not believe that Dr. Bavadra was a good choice for Fiji. So very soon after she left and I was the only person in the lab and I learned that nobody was going to replace me. So I went on trying to look at what I could buy for the laboratory if I could get some grants. And it became immediately obvious that any grant proposals that I could write to Australia and New Zealand weren't going to fly because this country was under martial law. It had had a military coup. Australia and New Zealand were very violently staying away from Fiji politics. They didn't believe what was going on was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, I'm getting shivers just hearing this. So you stayed in country. You were threatened by the authorities. They released you without charges, I understand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we didn't get to that. Actually, Jack, I had come back from an incident with the family that I was staying with. The husband was basically a wife abuser, and I told him that I could not stay. So I packed up my things, called Peace Corps, took a taxi to Suva, which was the most efficient transport for the suitcases I had. And Peace Corps then gave me a choice of either teaching at the Fiji School of Medicine, which I wasn't too interested in, or working at Sigatoka Hospital in the laboratory. And I'd seen Sigatoka city when we first got to Fiji with the Peace Corps, and it was a wonderful, pretty much Indian town. Indian women in saris and salwar kameez, Fijian people intermingling happy with each other. It was paradise. It looked like paradise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's where the international airport is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Nadi. It's a ways from Sigatoka."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how far?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 21.274525608284154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we didn't get to that. Actually, Jack, I had come back from an incident with the family that I was staying with. The husband was basically a wife abuser, and I told him that I could not stay. So I packed up my things, called Peace Corps, took a taxi to Suva, which was the most efficient transport for the suitcases I had. And Peace Corps then gave me a choice of either teaching at the Fiji School of Medicine, which I wasn't too interested in, or working at Sigatoka Hospital in the laboratory. And I'd seen Sigatoka city when we first got to Fiji with the Peace Corps, and it was a wonderful, pretty much Indian town. Indian women in saris and salwar kameez, Fijian people intermingling happy with each other. It was paradise. It looked like paradise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's where the international airport is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Nadi. It's a ways from Sigatoka."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how far?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it's just down on what's called the Coral Coast, and I chose to go ahead to Sigatoka Hospital. And I think it was, looking back, a really good decision. But you mentioned, Jack, that I had had some problems and, yes, I had. After I went back to Suva from the Indian family that I was living with because of their domestic violence, I had to find a new place to live in Sigatoka, and Peace Corps put me up at a place called the Crow's Nest Resort. I had a room like a tourist until I found a new place to live, which I eventually did. But while I was still living at the Crow's Nest Resort, someone saw my shortwave radio. Someone called the Fiji military and reported that I was somehow listening to news from Australia. After the coup, I should point out that both newspapers and radio stations in Fiji shut down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they did?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.354630464038621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was nothing for several days. All you would hear if you tuned into the radio station was, we are the world, we are the people, over and over. So it was very spooky. And I think that gave me. So I really felt alone at that time. This was a time when Fiji was under martial law. A little bit later there was a curfew. You were not allowed, no one was allowed on the streets if you weren't an armed soldier after 8:00 at night. And I started realizing, my God, no newspapers, no radio. They don't want me to listen to Radio Australia on my shortwave radio, which the soldiers came to my room one day and confiscated and questioned me and actually took me to a checkpoint where they, a temporary headquarters in Sigatoka, and questioned me.\n\nAnd then just as like the Fijian culture goes, after everything is OK, they made yagona, also known as grog, and we sat down with the lieutenant, Sacusa Lalinbalavu was his name. And we drank grog, four or five of us Fijians on the temporary military corps headquarters in Sigatoka. And then they offered to drive me back to my temporary room at the Crow's Nest. Peace Corps was kind of cool when Monday morning the people at the Crow's Nest Resort pointed out that there was an article on the front page of the Fiji Times about a Peace Corps volunteer arrested."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was not cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only one until I went to Suva for a couple of days. And then we realized that other Peace Corps volunteers were calling in and saying, gosh, you know, we were detained by the military, and showing up in the paper as well. So where I was initially the bad guy for a couple of days, everything changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably just as well they didn't have TV then."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.949589404487357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was not cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only one until I went to Suva for a couple of days. And then we realized that other Peace Corps volunteers were calling in and saying, gosh, you know, we were detained by the military, and showing up in the paper as well. So where I was initially the bad guy for a couple of days, everything changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably just as well they didn't have TV then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So how long did this coup go on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.506981350462766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there really wasn't an end to the coup. But certainly the gravity of the coup and how it sank in with individual people was a long time, Jack. What I saw immediately was where on the western side of Viti Levu, the main island, the Indians and the Fijians were really good friends. They had gone to school together. They had done a lot of things together as families. And the coup eventually polarized these people. It basically, I saw a lot of racism happening. And I remember one time I went to Suva for my gamma globulin shot right after those incidents. Had a friend come running up to my door in the hotel I was staying overnight in saying, Steve, you've got to come to my father's house because they're downtown. They're beating Indians and breaking into the Indian shops."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was terrified."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I went to their house and stayed for a while and then made my way back to the Peace Corps office via one street where."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excuse me, but what did she expect you to do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.674423722736407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was terrified."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I went to their house and stayed for a while and then made my way back to the Peace Corps office via one street where."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excuse me, but what did she expect you to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that. She was a younger woman that was the daughter of a New Zealand expatriate that I also knew. I had met him in Kadavu, met her in Kadavu, and they seemed to be pretty much in the same places from then on that I was in Fiji, just coincidentally. And so basically I think Melody just wanted some reassurance and was terrified, and it was indeed terrifying to see what I saw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some moral support then. So there wasn't anything that you actually did to intervene?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.082693025262675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I went to their house and stayed for a while and then made my way back to the Peace Corps office via one street where."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excuse me, but what did she expect you to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that. She was a younger woman that was the daughter of a New Zealand expatriate that I also knew. I had met him in Kadavu, met her in Kadavu, and they seemed to be pretty much in the same places from then on that I was in Fiji, just coincidentally. And so basically I think Melody just wanted some reassurance and was terrified, and it was indeed terrifying to see what I saw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some moral support then. So there wasn't anything that you actually did to intervene?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just be some shoulder to cry on, a friend to talk to while all the violence was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your own feelings? Were you scared?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.647436694736303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that. She was a younger woman that was the daughter of a New Zealand expatriate that I also knew. I had met him in Kadavu, met her in Kadavu, and they seemed to be pretty much in the same places from then on that I was in Fiji, just coincidentally. And so basically I think Melody just wanted some reassurance and was terrified, and it was indeed terrifying to see what I saw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some moral support then. So there wasn't anything that you actually did to intervene?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just be some shoulder to cry on, a friend to talk to while all the violence was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your own feelings? Were you scared?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I tend to build a shell around myself, protective layer. And so, yes, I was terrified inside, but I was still functioning okay. Even though almost back to the Peace Corps office, I heard yelling and there were people grabbing big stones and throwing them through the glass fronts of Indian shops. It was hatred. And they were breaking, grabbing stuff, running off with it, all the windows, knocking down doors. And I remember there was a sandwich shop run by some New Zealand expatriates. They were so terrified they said, gosh, you know, we came and we don't want to stay and see this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you concerned about your own safety then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 28.497151883040335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just be some shoulder to cry on, a friend to talk to while all the violence was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your own feelings? Were you scared?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I tend to build a shell around myself, protective layer. And so, yes, I was terrified inside, but I was still functioning okay. Even though almost back to the Peace Corps office, I heard yelling and there were people grabbing big stones and throwing them through the glass fronts of Indian shops. It was hatred. And they were breaking, grabbing stuff, running off with it, all the windows, knocking down doors. And I remember there was a sandwich shop run by some New Zealand expatriates. They were so terrified they said, gosh, you know, we came and we don't want to stay and see this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you concerned about your own safety then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes and no, because I felt at that time I had been in country for a little over a year. I had learned the languages and customs enough to feel pretty darn comfortable. This is only my own perception and my own personality how I had blended in. But yes, I was scared. But yes, I kind of felt like nothing really bad was going to happen to me. The real scare was over with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So you stuck it out. And then what happened? Did you stay with the same job or same location?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 30.366854176593005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes and no, because I felt at that time I had been in country for a little over a year. I had learned the languages and customs enough to feel pretty darn comfortable. This is only my own perception and my own personality how I had blended in. But yes, I was scared. But yes, I kind of felt like nothing really bad was going to happen to me. The real scare was over with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So you stuck it out. And then what happened? Did you stay with the same job or same location?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did stay with the same job. I eventually found a small place right on about 50 yards from the South Pacific Ocean, a little tin shack kind of fashioned after a Fijian bure. And I was living in that shack only for about a month and a half. At that time, a Fijian woman was really helpful to me and we started dating. And after that I had gone up to the road to hitchhike one day into town to the hospital. Usually the bus wasn't all that reliable after the coups, and people would often stop if you're just standing on the road. Hey, where are you going? And you want a ride? Sure. But this time there was an Indian man standing on the road and he saw me and he said, where are you from? And I said, oh, from America. He said, where in America? And I said, Seattle. He said, I'm from Seattle. And I thought, oh come on, don't give me that. And he grabbed at his wallet and pulled it out and showed me a Washington State driver's license."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Introduced himself as George Mansingh and he said, my gosh, you've got to come and visit my family, my son and his wife and their daughter are here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And here in Fiji?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.85206019621445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did stay with the same job. I eventually found a small place right on about 50 yards from the South Pacific Ocean, a little tin shack kind of fashioned after a Fijian bure. And I was living in that shack only for about a month and a half. At that time, a Fijian woman was really helpful to me and we started dating. And after that I had gone up to the road to hitchhike one day into town to the hospital. Usually the bus wasn't all that reliable after the coups, and people would often stop if you're just standing on the road. Hey, where are you going? And you want a ride? Sure. But this time there was an Indian man standing on the road and he saw me and he said, where are you from? And I said, oh, from America. He said, where in America? And I said, Seattle. He said, I'm from Seattle. And I thought, oh come on, don't give me that. And he grabbed at his wallet and pulled it out and showed me a Washington State driver's license."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Introduced himself as George Mansingh and he said, my gosh, you've got to come and visit my family, my son and his wife and their daughter are here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And here in Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right here in Korotogo, walking distance from where I was living by the ocean there. So I arranged that weekend to go over and visit. I met Francis Singh, who was half Indian from his father and half Fijian, from the Fijian village on the east side of Viti Levu. And his wife, who was named Terry, and had a daughter named Megan. Terry was an IT professional in Silicon Valley and had met Francis, I think, in Hawaii. And a nice family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Excuse me for interrupting. You said you were dating a Fijian girl?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.502289106904943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Introduced himself as George Mansingh and he said, my gosh, you've got to come and visit my family, my son and his wife and their daughter are here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And here in Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right here in Korotogo, walking distance from where I was living by the ocean there. So I arranged that weekend to go over and visit. I met Francis Singh, who was half Indian from his father and half Fijian, from the Fijian village on the east side of Viti Levu. And his wife, who was named Terry, and had a daughter named Megan. Terry was an IT professional in Silicon Valley and had met Francis, I think, in Hawaii. And a nice family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Excuse me for interrupting. You said you were dating a Fijian girl?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Emma and I went to movies and went out to eat and have lunch and stuff and had a pretty good relationship. Didn't move in together or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, excuse me again. Was this your wife or your future wife?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 29.446987896561048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right here in Korotogo, walking distance from where I was living by the ocean there. So I arranged that weekend to go over and visit. I met Francis Singh, who was half Indian from his father and half Fijian, from the Fijian village on the east side of Viti Levu. And his wife, who was named Terry, and had a daughter named Megan. Terry was an IT professional in Silicon Valley and had met Francis, I think, in Hawaii. And a nice family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Excuse me for interrupting. You said you were dating a Fijian girl?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Emma and I went to movies and went out to eat and have lunch and stuff and had a pretty good relationship. Didn't move in together or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, excuse me again. Was this your wife or your future wife?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this was not my future wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I just wanted to clarify that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.29541210953792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably less in Fijian language though. People are not really book people in Fiji. So I had been reading this book about some Nazi thing at the end of World War II, and when I got to my hotel that Peace Corps had arranged for me to go to, I think they rented out a whole floor of an inn in northwestern Washington, D.C. I just crashed out on, I was exhausted. I crashed out with jetlag on the bed and thinking about the book I had just read and asleep. I woke up hearing a very distinct German voice saying, what is this here we have? And it was a German man, an elderly man, probably in his late sixties. He was also a Peace Corps volunteer. His name was Fred Gunsberger. And Fred and I got to know each other. Got to know, in fact, that Fred had been a German soldier during World War II, and my father had been an American soldier during World War II."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was interesting. But the relationship between Fred Gunsberger and I also included the fact that the new Peace Corps, the Peace Corps director in Fiji, was the same woman he had been under when he was a volunteer in Botswana. Fred was leaving, he was closing his service because he had hypertension. But we went around Washington, D.C., in those few weeks that we had, just like father and son. Fred and I got to be really good friends and it wasn't until Fred was finally had decided to go back as a private individual to Botswana and live out the rest of his life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To Botswana, OK. But you kind of danced around this girl back in Sigatoka."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.848942589269793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything. Yeah. I could still visit that beach because it was only two blocks away, just down the way. But I had a much larger. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were living in a nice house, and things were kind of exciting after the coup. Let's go back to your job then. How did things go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, every day I was going to Sigatoka Hospital. Every work day I was expected to show up. And I felt even though it wasn't exactly what Peace Corps thought I would be doing, I was doing something that was helpful and useful and it was allowing me to stay in Fiji and do the other things that I was doing. And of course I did have a warming relationship with this nurse named Leela, and Leela and I started dating. I thought it was interesting because right after Fiji had a second coup. The original one was in May '87. This one was in September of '87."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, same here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another coup. And we got a different head nurse at Sigatoka Hospital at that time, and this nurse was helping the military a lot. She even gave a lot of the old hospital beds to the military for the guys to stay in. And she, Sister Varra was her name, and she really took a dim view of my dating Leela. We didn't do anything as far as displays of affection on the job. We were both very professional. Although Leela would occasionally, I'd find Leela in the lab waiting for me to tell me something that was going on and just hospital scuttlebutt or whatever. But Sister Varra, the new head nurse at the hospital, sent Leela away from the hospital and assigned her to public health project up the Sigatoka River."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.721047321410882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, every day I was going to Sigatoka Hospital. Every work day I was expected to show up. And I felt even though it wasn't exactly what Peace Corps thought I would be doing, I was doing something that was helpful and useful and it was allowing me to stay in Fiji and do the other things that I was doing. And of course I did have a warming relationship with this nurse named Leela, and Leela and I started dating. I thought it was interesting because right after Fiji had a second coup. The original one was in May '87. This one was in September of '87."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, same here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another coup. And we got a different head nurse at Sigatoka Hospital at that time, and this nurse was helping the military a lot. She even gave a lot of the old hospital beds to the military for the guys to stay in. And she, Sister Varra was her name, and she really took a dim view of my dating Leela. We didn't do anything as far as displays of affection on the job. We were both very professional. Although Leela would occasionally, I'd find Leela in the lab waiting for me to tell me something that was going on and just hospital scuttlebutt or whatever. But Sister Varra, the new head nurse at the hospital, sent Leela away from the hospital and assigned her to public health project up the Sigatoka River."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was apparent to both of us that she didn't want us to be together, or any idea that we were together was not happy for her. So Leela and I, we continued dating on the weekends when she was back down in the valley, Sigatoka Valley, but it was very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of things did you do? What did you do for fun, hobbies and entertainment and all that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.578941468234314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another coup. And we got a different head nurse at Sigatoka Hospital at that time, and this nurse was helping the military a lot. She even gave a lot of the old hospital beds to the military for the guys to stay in. And she, Sister Varra was her name, and she really took a dim view of my dating Leela. We didn't do anything as far as displays of affection on the job. We were both very professional. Although Leela would occasionally, I'd find Leela in the lab waiting for me to tell me something that was going on and just hospital scuttlebutt or whatever. But Sister Varra, the new head nurse at the hospital, sent Leela away from the hospital and assigned her to public health project up the Sigatoka River."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was apparent to both of us that she didn't want us to be together, or any idea that we were together was not happy for her. So Leela and I, we continued dating on the weekends when she was back down in the valley, Sigatoka Valley, but it was very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of things did you do? What did you do for fun, hobbies and entertainment and all that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we took a trip to Ovalau, a couple of trips to Nadi prior to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ovalau was an offshore island?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.480174652141129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we took a trip to Ovalau, a couple of trips to Nadi prior to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ovalau was an offshore island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Ovalau was a small offshore island. It was where the original government of Fiji was located before it moved to Suva."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Ovalau had a lot of touristy kind of stuff to do and a lot of Victorian age stuff to see and do. And people that are a little more isolated from the main populace and in the main island. So it was really charming"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you couldn't have been normal tourists since you spoke the language, understood the culture, and your now fiancée, or was she fiancée at that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.247129200174234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Ovalau had a lot of touristy kind of stuff to do and a lot of Victorian age stuff to see and do. And people that are a little more isolated from the main populace and in the main island. So it was really charming"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you couldn't have been normal tourists since you spoke the language, understood the culture, and your now fiancée, or was she fiancée at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she wasn't yet my fiancée. That didn't happen for a few more months, but it was coming up to second year and I was going to have, my service would have been over. I was going to have to leave Fiji. And I at that point felt that there was enough of a strength in our relationship, my relationship with Leela that I really couldn't leave her alone. And at the time when I did some research, the Fiji government had what I considered kind of a sexist law in that if you're a foreign man and you come and marry somebody in Fiji, you've got to take her away from Fiji. But if you're a foreign woman and you come and marry someone in Fiji, then you can stay with that person in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it became apparent that I was going to have to do a lot of quick thinking. And over a couple of months I made the decision to propose to Leela. And at that point she brought me home, not until that point, but at that point brought me home to a little shack that she lived in with her family. And her family consisted just of a 19 year old brother and her mother, who was widowed from a road accident her father had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were they accepting of you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.163476889082482, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she wasn't yet my fiancée. That didn't happen for a few more months, but it was coming up to second year and I was going to have, my service would have been over. I was going to have to leave Fiji. And I at that point felt that there was enough of a strength in our relationship, my relationship with Leela that I really couldn't leave her alone. And at the time when I did some research, the Fiji government had what I considered kind of a sexist law in that if you're a foreign man and you come and marry somebody in Fiji, you've got to take her away from Fiji. But if you're a foreign woman and you come and marry someone in Fiji, then you can stay with that person in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it became apparent that I was going to have to do a lot of quick thinking. And over a couple of months I made the decision to propose to Leela. And at that point she brought me home, not until that point, but at that point brought me home to a little shack that she lived in with her family. And her family consisted just of a 19 year old brother and her mother, who was widowed from a road accident her father had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were they accepting of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were very accepting of me. It was, they were proud to have me in their home, offering me all kinds of things. I think their mom actually gave me the gold necklace that I'm wearing now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, nice. Well, how did your proposal go? Was it done Fiji style, whatever that is?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.312934430966026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were very accepting of me. It was, they were proud to have me in their home, offering me all kinds of things. I think their mom actually gave me the gold necklace that I'm wearing now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, nice. Well, how did your proposal go? Was it done Fiji style, whatever that is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I'm not sure what that would have been, so no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kava, kava."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I did was just the typical. I found a very nice ring. The duty-free stores had a wonderful selection of jewelry, and I got her an emerald and ruby and diamond engagement ring, and did the traditional down on one knee. And would you marry me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So what did the wedding look like? Where was it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.014371589962251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I'm not sure what that would have been, so no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kava, kava."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I did was just the typical. I found a very nice ring. The duty-free stores had a wonderful selection of jewelry, and I got her an emerald and ruby and diamond engagement ring, and did the traditional down on one knee. And would you marry me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So what did the wedding look like? Where was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we decided that we'd like to have a traditional Indian wedding. Although traditional Indian weddings tend to be very long, both in Fiji and in India. And so we had the abbreviated version. It probably took about 3 hours or so. A pundit came to marry us, although in Fiji that doesn't legally make you married. So in fact, in July, a month before our marriage, we did have to, Leela and I went to Suva together, and at that point we were sharing a bed together, so that was OK. And we went to a justice of the peace and got married and came back. But in everyone else's eyes we were still not married. It was the Hindu ceremony that was going to mean everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "May I ask how your family in this country felt?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.793746211069168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I did was just the typical. I found a very nice ring. The duty-free stores had a wonderful selection of jewelry, and I got her an emerald and ruby and diamond engagement ring, and did the traditional down on one knee. And would you marry me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So what did the wedding look like? Where was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we decided that we'd like to have a traditional Indian wedding. Although traditional Indian weddings tend to be very long, both in Fiji and in India. And so we had the abbreviated version. It probably took about 3 hours or so. A pundit came to marry us, although in Fiji that doesn't legally make you married. So in fact, in July, a month before our marriage, we did have to, Leela and I went to Suva together, and at that point we were sharing a bed together, so that was OK. And we went to a justice of the peace and got married and came back. But in everyone else's eyes we were still not married. It was the Hindu ceremony that was going to mean everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "May I ask how your family in this country felt?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really just supportive. My mom couldn't afford to go to Fiji and I couldn't import her there. So my father was having some health problems so he couldn't come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they accepting of your wife?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.659718012299075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we decided that we'd like to have a traditional Indian wedding. Although traditional Indian weddings tend to be very long, both in Fiji and in India. And so we had the abbreviated version. It probably took about 3 hours or so. A pundit came to marry us, although in Fiji that doesn't legally make you married. So in fact, in July, a month before our marriage, we did have to, Leela and I went to Suva together, and at that point we were sharing a bed together, so that was OK. And we went to a justice of the peace and got married and came back. But in everyone else's eyes we were still not married. It was the Hindu ceremony that was going to mean everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "May I ask how your family in this country felt?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really just supportive. My mom couldn't afford to go to Fiji and I couldn't import her there. So my father was having some health problems so he couldn't come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they accepting of your wife?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As near as I can tell, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From a distance."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.621908902554528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really just supportive. My mom couldn't afford to go to Fiji and I couldn't import her there. So my father was having some health problems so he couldn't come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they accepting of your wife?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As near as I can tell, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From a distance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From a distance, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did they meet her?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.298652966116702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From a distance, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did they meet her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my father passed away before Leela and I came back to Seattle, where he was. But my mother met Leila in Maui, where I got my first job after we left Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was the initial, the initial shock. And then my mom came another time when we had moved from Maui to the big island in Hawaii, in Hilo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how much longer were you in Fiji after you were married?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.220725517907447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my father passed away before Leela and I came back to Seattle, where he was. But my mother met Leila in Maui, where I got my first job after we left Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was the initial, the initial shock. And then my mom came another time when we had moved from Maui to the big island in Hawaii, in Hilo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how much longer were you in Fiji after you were married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So almost exactly a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A year, OK."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.245250575452719, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was the initial, the initial shock. And then my mom came another time when we had moved from Maui to the big island in Hawaii, in Hilo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how much longer were you in Fiji after you were married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So almost exactly a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A year, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when I got married, it was pretty close to time to close service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The second year."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.050278417169686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So almost exactly a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A year, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when I got married, it was pretty close to time to close service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The second year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most other two-year Peace Corps volunteers that I'd gone with were closing their service, and I went to a lot of the workshops. They had some really helpful ones for writing resumes and sending cover letters that ended up in the third year for being very helpful for me. As I mentioned, I had already gotten a job in Maui at Maui Memorial Hospital in the laboratory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you finished out your two years and then got a one year extension and then moved to Maui. Wow, what a story. Well, what did you do there? So, yeah, what were you doing in Maui and what are you doing now as a consequence of the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.722531574632983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when I got married, it was pretty close to time to close service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The second year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most other two-year Peace Corps volunteers that I'd gone with were closing their service, and I went to a lot of the workshops. They had some really helpful ones for writing resumes and sending cover letters that ended up in the third year for being very helpful for me. As I mentioned, I had already gotten a job in Maui at Maui Memorial Hospital in the laboratory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you finished out your two years and then got a one year extension and then moved to Maui. Wow, what a story. Well, what did you do there? So, yeah, what were you doing in Maui and what are you doing now as a consequence of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at the time, I was living in Maui with Leela, and as I said, I already had a job. So when we arrived, it was basically one of the people with the company, Clinical Labs of Hawaii, met us, bought us lunch, got us accommodations, and helped us find a place to live eventually, which was a little shack out behind a Japanese family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think the Peace Corps was helpful in getting you that next job?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.469479527369981, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most other two-year Peace Corps volunteers that I'd gone with were closing their service, and I went to a lot of the workshops. They had some really helpful ones for writing resumes and sending cover letters that ended up in the third year for being very helpful for me. As I mentioned, I had already gotten a job in Maui at Maui Memorial Hospital in the laboratory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you finished out your two years and then got a one year extension and then moved to Maui. Wow, what a story. Well, what did you do there? So, yeah, what were you doing in Maui and what are you doing now as a consequence of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at the time, I was living in Maui with Leela, and as I said, I already had a job. So when we arrived, it was basically one of the people with the company, Clinical Labs of Hawaii, met us, bought us lunch, got us accommodations, and helped us find a place to live eventually, which was a little shack out behind a Japanese family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think the Peace Corps was helpful in getting you that next job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that the end of service program that I had attended after two years gave me a lot of information about sending cover letters and writing a good resume and getting that going. So in that respect, yes. I thought it was interesting. A lot of the cover letters that I sent to other hospitals in Hawaii turned out all to go to Clinical Labs of Hawaii because they had the laboratories and all of the other places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're trying to pigeonhole you. And Leela, did she get a job?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.188310585966645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at the time, I was living in Maui with Leela, and as I said, I already had a job. So when we arrived, it was basically one of the people with the company, Clinical Labs of Hawaii, met us, bought us lunch, got us accommodations, and helped us find a place to live eventually, which was a little shack out behind a Japanese family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think the Peace Corps was helpful in getting you that next job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that the end of service program that I had attended after two years gave me a lot of information about sending cover letters and writing a good resume and getting that going. So in that respect, yes. I thought it was interesting. A lot of the cover letters that I sent to other hospitals in Hawaii turned out all to go to Clinical Labs of Hawaii because they had the laboratories and all of the other places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're trying to pigeonhole you. And Leela, did she get a job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Leela was a real stubborn person. So about working, she basically, from the time she graduated nursing school, she had been in Kadavu about a year before I was sent to Kadavu. She was in Sigatoka. She was all over Fiji as a nurse. And so after I started working at Maui Memorial Hospital, I went to the personnel office or the human resources department and said, gosh, you know, I have this person that's a nurse in Fiji and do you have anything that? They gave me a thing to fill out for her and said, sure, they were really excited about it. And Leela got hired as a, not sure exactly what the title was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you were husband and wife at that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.987011762185161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that the end of service program that I had attended after two years gave me a lot of information about sending cover letters and writing a good resume and getting that going. So in that respect, yes. I thought it was interesting. A lot of the cover letters that I sent to other hospitals in Hawaii turned out all to go to Clinical Labs of Hawaii because they had the laboratories and all of the other places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're trying to pigeonhole you. And Leela, did she get a job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Leela was a real stubborn person. So about working, she basically, from the time she graduated nursing school, she had been in Kadavu about a year before I was sent to Kadavu. She was in Sigatoka. She was all over Fiji as a nurse. And so after I started working at Maui Memorial Hospital, I went to the personnel office or the human resources department and said, gosh, you know, I have this person that's a nurse in Fiji and do you have anything that? They gave me a thing to fill out for her and said, sure, they were really excited about it. And Leela got hired as a, not sure exactly what the title was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you were husband and wife at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were husband and wife at that. We were married in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Well, inclined to shift from Fiji to American culture. Did that cause any problems in the workplace working together?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.763346402427957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Leela was a real stubborn person. So about working, she basically, from the time she graduated nursing school, she had been in Kadavu about a year before I was sent to Kadavu. She was in Sigatoka. She was all over Fiji as a nurse. And so after I started working at Maui Memorial Hospital, I went to the personnel office or the human resources department and said, gosh, you know, I have this person that's a nurse in Fiji and do you have anything that? They gave me a thing to fill out for her and said, sure, they were really excited about it. And Leela got hired as a, not sure exactly what the title was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you were husband and wife at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were husband and wife at that. We were married in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Well, inclined to shift from Fiji to American culture. Did that cause any problems in the workplace working together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we pretty much had our own hours. Leela ended up having to work some night shift and like that. So it was a bit challenging in the beginning, but she was very proud to be working for an American wage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, Hawaii is a very mixed culture. How were you received there as an interracial culture?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.4037182249199525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were husband and wife at that. We were married in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Well, inclined to shift from Fiji to American culture. Did that cause any problems in the workplace working together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we pretty much had our own hours. Leela ended up having to work some night shift and like that. So it was a bit challenging in the beginning, but she was very proud to be working for an American wage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, Hawaii is a very mixed culture. How were you received there as an interracial culture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure about that, Jack. I sometimes felt everything was good, but I do think there was some friction too. I think I've mentioned that Leela is an Indian that's fairly dark skinned Indian, and I think that people saw that as sometimes not a favorable thing, some of the locals. And especially when we moved to the Big Island of Hawaii, I really felt that Leela was being pigeonholed and I don't think everybody was all that accepting. And so she was really strong and making her way. She immediately was transferred to Hilo Hospital, where I was working in the laboratory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of you, do you think?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.11524247213328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we pretty much had our own hours. Leela ended up having to work some night shift and like that. So it was a bit challenging in the beginning, but she was very proud to be working for an American wage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, Hawaii is a very mixed culture. How were you received there as an interracial culture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure about that, Jack. I sometimes felt everything was good, but I do think there was some friction too. I think I've mentioned that Leela is an Indian that's fairly dark skinned Indian, and I think that people saw that as sometimes not a favorable thing, some of the locals. And especially when we moved to the Big Island of Hawaii, I really felt that Leela was being pigeonholed and I don't think everybody was all that accepting. And so she was really strong and making her way. She immediately was transferred to Hilo Hospital, where I was working in the laboratory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of you, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So it wasn't trying to split you up like the first situation back in Sigatoka?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.905824969036978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure about that, Jack. I sometimes felt everything was good, but I do think there was some friction too. I think I've mentioned that Leela is an Indian that's fairly dark skinned Indian, and I think that people saw that as sometimes not a favorable thing, some of the locals. And especially when we moved to the Big Island of Hawaii, I really felt that Leela was being pigeonholed and I don't think everybody was all that accepting. And so she was really strong and making her way. She immediately was transferred to Hilo Hospital, where I was working in the laboratory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of you, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So it wasn't trying to split you up like the first situation back in Sigatoka?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was just bizarre."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, let's fast forward. Here you are in Seattle and she's working and you have, you live in a nice neighborhood. How have you been received as a mixed couple, if that's even an issue?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.784249965596642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So it wasn't trying to split you up like the first situation back in Sigatoka?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was just bizarre."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, let's fast forward. Here you are in Seattle and she's working and you have, you live in a nice neighborhood. How have you been received as a mixed couple, if that's even an issue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think pretty much it's pretty multicultural in Seattle. Seattle is always, in my opinion, been fairly, fairly multicultural."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you imagine living here for time to come?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.538055517329602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that was just bizarre."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, let's fast forward. Here you are in Seattle and she's working and you have, you live in a nice neighborhood. How have you been received as a mixed couple, if that's even an issue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think pretty much it's pretty multicultural in Seattle. Seattle is always, in my opinion, been fairly, fairly multicultural."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you imagine living here for time to come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. Leela's family is here now, her mom and her brother. Her mom did pass away a couple of years ago. Her brother married in a Hindu ceremony up in North Seattle, married an Indian woman who had come from Fiji. And they're doing really well now. They have two children. They have a house bigger than ours out in Renton, which is a bit south of Seattle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And so you don't see yourself leaving this area because she has family now."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.375617241477336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think pretty much it's pretty multicultural in Seattle. Seattle is always, in my opinion, been fairly, fairly multicultural."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you imagine living here for time to come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. Leela's family is here now, her mom and her brother. Her mom did pass away a couple of years ago. Her brother married in a Hindu ceremony up in North Seattle, married an Indian woman who had come from Fiji. And they're doing really well now. They have two children. They have a house bigger than ours out in Renton, which is a bit south of Seattle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And so you don't see yourself leaving this area because she has family now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that's the main reason, you picked that up right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, Fijians are very family oriented."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.306241379419262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. Leela's family is here now, her mom and her brother. Her mom did pass away a couple of years ago. Her brother married in a Hindu ceremony up in North Seattle, married an Indian woman who had come from Fiji. And they're doing really well now. They have two children. They have a house bigger than ours out in Renton, which is a bit south of Seattle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And so you don't see yourself leaving this area because she has family now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that's the main reason, you picked that up right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, Fijians are very family oriented."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's sort of an anchor, her brother and her are very close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been back to Fiji to visit?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.254618986937361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's sort of an anchor, her brother and her are very close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been back to Fiji to visit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Last time we went back to Fiji together was 2005."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was a lot of fun. I met a couple of people, one an old friend that I had lived with, and another an old friend that was from the Peace Corps office, right on the street in Suva. Fiji is just a small place where you can be in a country of 750,000 people, but here on the main island, my gosh, how can it be? You just go to Suva, the capital, and you're walking around the street and one day there's two people that, hi, how are you doing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So that was 15 years later, after they had TV. Had the country changed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.394021096597067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Last time we went back to Fiji together was 2005."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was a lot of fun. I met a couple of people, one an old friend that I had lived with, and another an old friend that was from the Peace Corps office, right on the street in Suva. Fiji is just a small place where you can be in a country of 750,000 people, but here on the main island, my gosh, how can it be? You just go to Suva, the capital, and you're walking around the street and one day there's two people that, hi, how are you doing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So that was 15 years later, after they had TV. Had the country changed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or had you changed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.486445798267983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or had you changed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both are very definitely true. Fiji, I think, did not positively change because of television. I mean, that Fiji did not change in a positive way. I don't want to get into all the pros and cons. And I haven't lived as a resident since my Peace Corps service ended in 1989. So I'm always sort of a visitor, and I'm a little bit reluctant to start making judgment calls just from a two week visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And what Leela's relatives, she has a lot of aunts and uncles in Fiji that she stays in contact with, but and her brother Shadawan also has a lot of old friends. So I get reports all the time. But firsthand, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How about culture shock? Did you go through any culture shock either in Hawaii or coming back here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.65160644251998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both are very definitely true. Fiji, I think, did not positively change because of television. I mean, that Fiji did not change in a positive way. I don't want to get into all the pros and cons. And I haven't lived as a resident since my Peace Corps service ended in 1989. So I'm always sort of a visitor, and I'm a little bit reluctant to start making judgment calls just from a two week visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And what Leela's relatives, she has a lot of aunts and uncles in Fiji that she stays in contact with, but and her brother Shadawan also has a lot of old friends. So I get reports all the time. But firsthand, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How about culture shock? Did you go through any culture shock either in Hawaii or coming back here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't believe that I did. And I think Leela also is in a lot of ways like me, that she's a strong person and knows what she wants to do. And I think she was a real trooper about going through stuff pretty well. There were some weird, possibly racist issues in Hawaii and in America, but I think we overcame them fairly fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, just a difference in material issues, everything from cars to supermarkets. Did that have any effect on you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.7924195130620015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "38 or 39."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Yeah. So a little bit more mature. And what are you doing these days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So these days, I had been working as medical technologist with a company that basically ate up the old job that I had at Swedish Hospital. They came in when I was gone in Fiji and Hawaii and, and there were a lot of mergers in laboratories all over. It was interesting to me that when I went back to the very same person that I had worked with at Swedish Hospital in the laboratory, that person interviewed me for a new job when Leela and I had just gotten from Hawaii to Seattle. And he said, well, what's to, how do we know that you're not going to just go off and join Peace Corps again? He just was really oblivious to the fact that, you know, I'd done my service. I was back as a regular person. I had given four weeks’ notice, but he thought that he didn't want me back. He didn't want me to work with their team of people anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I found alternate situation at Pacific Medical Center here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And afraid of losing you. OK. Well, I want to ask you. So to try and summarize, um, we've talked about what you did before Peace Corps, what you did during the Peace Corps, what you're doing now and subsequent to Peace Corps. What do you consider to be your biggest accomplishments or successes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.040024090200001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I found alternate situation at Pacific Medical Center here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And afraid of losing you. OK. Well, I want to ask you. So to try and summarize, um, we've talked about what you did before Peace Corps, what you did during the Peace Corps, what you're doing now and subsequent to Peace Corps. What do you consider to be your biggest accomplishments or successes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really, I think that it was a lot easier to have huge accomplishments when I was in Fiji. So maybe turning the slate a little bit. Having just had our 31st wedding anniversary, August 20th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A few weeks ago. That's certainly accomplishment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'd say so."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.711137878000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really, I think that it was a lot easier to have huge accomplishments when I was in Fiji. So maybe turning the slate a little bit. Having just had our 31st wedding anniversary, August 20th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A few weeks ago. That's certainly accomplishment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'd say so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We've definitely going through a lot of ups and downs. But we have stayed together and her brother has stayed geographically close to where we are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, it sounds like you had a lot of relationships in Fiji, I mean, friends and associates and so on. You mixed with a lot of people, Fijians and Indians. What more can you say about that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3470838000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We've definitely going through a lot of ups and downs. But we have stayed together and her brother has stayed geographically close to where we are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, it sounds like you had a lot of relationships in Fiji, I mean, friends and associates and so on. You mixed with a lot of people, Fijians and Indians. What more can you say about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think that all in all, learning to live in a different culture. Actually Fiji has two very distinctly different cultures, the Fijian culture, not to be confused with the Fiji Indians, the people whose ancestors had been brought to Fiji to work the cane fields and offered if they worked for ten years they could stay and become citizens and become Fiji citizens. So they. So I think it was really valuable not only to live in the Indian community and have Indian friends, but to live in the Fijian community and have Fijian friends and see the differences and the similarities in both cultures. And to have lived in both of those cultures was just a very, it's a precious memory and it's something that sometimes I can revive a bit if I go back and I have friends still there.\n\nBut it's really helped in a multicultural situation and a multicultural workplace to be able to relate to other people from other parts of the world. I think that it takes the sharp edge off my being an American, quote unquote. I think it's a lot easier to mix with the woman that I worked with as a med tech from Hong Kong and the folks that I knew from Nigeria that were med techs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just made everything easier. I wasn't acting like an American that knew all about their country, that I was pushy and I was instead culturally aware that, hey, these people live differently than you do, Steve. And you need to find out a little more about their culture, because even though they're trying to act as American as they can to fit in, they still have something that's very fundamental and very precious to them, and that's their own culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's right."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9099800000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just made everything easier. I wasn't acting like an American that knew all about their country, that I was pushy and I was instead culturally aware that, hey, these people live differently than you do, Steve. And you need to find out a little more about their culture, because even though they're trying to act as American as they can to fit in, they still have something that's very fundamental and very precious to them, and that's their own culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So respect it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And Fiji is communal as well. So very sharing and caring people. Well, we've touched on the three goals of the Peace Corps, which is a technology transfer, and it sounds like you were successful in that department. You went over knowing very little about Fiji and you came back with a great understanding and a wife. That's wonderful. So how do you share all that experience with your neighbors or your colleagues or whomever you might interact on a daily basis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, on a daily basis, it's not really an issue. And I think I've found that when you start talking about your Peace Corps experience, it's often a sort of a foreign concept to a lot of people. They, most people are not really aware that Peace Corps exists or if they are, they've maybe heard some good or bad stories. I remember even in Fiji, I was asked, did your government make you come here? They didn't know that, no, I had given up a good job to go and help people in Fiji in any way that I could. And here in America, again, it's just a foreign concept and people get bored really fast hearing about, yeah, you were in Fiji. So what? It's interesting, in the last few years I've noticed that the awareness of Fiji as a resort location or tourist location has really gone up, and certainly Fiji Water as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say thanks to Fiji Water, huh?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1222000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So respect it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And Fiji is communal as well. So very sharing and caring people. Well, we've touched on the three goals of the Peace Corps, which is a technology transfer, and it sounds like you were successful in that department. You went over knowing very little about Fiji and you came back with a great understanding and a wife. That's wonderful. So how do you share all that experience with your neighbors or your colleagues or whomever you might interact on a daily basis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, on a daily basis, it's not really an issue. And I think I've found that when you start talking about your Peace Corps experience, it's often a sort of a foreign concept to a lot of people. They, most people are not really aware that Peace Corps exists or if they are, they've maybe heard some good or bad stories. I remember even in Fiji, I was asked, did your government make you come here? They didn't know that, no, I had given up a good job to go and help people in Fiji in any way that I could. And here in America, again, it's just a foreign concept and people get bored really fast hearing about, yeah, you were in Fiji. So what? It's interesting, in the last few years I've noticed that the awareness of Fiji as a resort location or tourist location has really gone up, and certainly Fiji Water as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say thanks to Fiji Water, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very possibly. I'm not sure where the source is that they talk about on the bottle, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a nice picture of a waterfall."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, on a daily basis, it's not really an issue. And I think I've found that when you start talking about your Peace Corps experience, it's often a sort of a foreign concept to a lot of people. They, most people are not really aware that Peace Corps exists or if they are, they've maybe heard some good or bad stories. I remember even in Fiji, I was asked, did your government make you come here? They didn't know that, no, I had given up a good job to go and help people in Fiji in any way that I could. And here in America, again, it's just a foreign concept and people get bored really fast hearing about, yeah, you were in Fiji. So what? It's interesting, in the last few years I've noticed that the awareness of Fiji as a resort location or tourist location has really gone up, and certainly Fiji Water as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say thanks to Fiji Water, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very possibly. I'm not sure where the source is that they talk about on the bottle, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a nice picture of a waterfall."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me ask you one more question that I've been pondering. I posed this last night to give you time to think about it. What good did we do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What good did we do as Peace Corps Fiji?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think a lot, a lot of people in Fiji would tell me, you know, I used to have three different Peace Corps teachers, they'd call them Peace Corpses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a lot of people had Peace Corps influence in their elementary school and their high school. Even Leela, my wife, the other day I was talking about this interview upcoming and she said, yeah, I had two. My chemistry teacher was a Peace Corps volunteer, and I think it was my language, English teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, that's significant. I'm sorry that she's not here. I would have loved to have met her. And I will come back one day and see her or come to the next reunion. Steve, is there anything else you'd like to add? This has been marvelous talking to you."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think a lot, a lot of people in Fiji would tell me, you know, I used to have three different Peace Corps teachers, they'd call them Peace Corpses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a lot of people had Peace Corps influence in their elementary school and their high school. Even Leela, my wife, the other day I was talking about this interview upcoming and she said, yeah, I had two. My chemistry teacher was a Peace Corps volunteer, and I think it was my language, English teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, that's significant. I'm sorry that she's not here. I would have loved to have met her. And I will come back one day and see her or come to the next reunion. Steve, is there anything else you'd like to add? This has been marvelous talking to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Jack, thanks a lot. I think the main thing is that marking time. It's been a while and Fiji has changed a lot. And when I was in Fiji we celebrated the 25th anniversary of the Peace Corps and I just noticed online that Fiji celebrated its 50th anniversary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fifty now, wow, that's great."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00135:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a lot of people had Peace Corps influence in their elementary school and their high school. Even Leela, my wife, the other day I was talking about this interview upcoming and she said, yeah, I had two. My chemistry teacher was a Peace Corps volunteer, and I think it was my language, English teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, that's significant. I'm sorry that she's not here. I would have loved to have met her. And I will come back one day and see her or come to the next reunion. Steve, is there anything else you'd like to add? This has been marvelous talking to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Jack, thanks a lot. I think the main thing is that marking time. It's been a while and Fiji has changed a lot. And when I was in Fiji we celebrated the 25th anniversary of the Peace Corps and I just noticed online that Fiji celebrated its 50th anniversary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fifty now, wow, that's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Well, Steve, thank you very much for your time and all the information and for your service, of course. And please give my regards to your wife."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00178:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 49.64414629509527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No problem. Thanks for pushing it up a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it’s our pleasure. We’re just happy you’re willing to come in and talk to us.\\n\\n Last time, we talked about your flight, STS-51A, and one of the things we didn’t cover was the fact that you were the first mother in space, and that seemed to be a big deal, at least for the news media. What did you think about all that coverage and the interest in being that first mother in space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the whole evolution of everything was kind of a very busy time, because here I was, a new mother. Did we talk about that last time, that I was a new mother and I was training for my flight and was a CapCom [Capsule Communicator]? I think we talked about that last time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we talked about those things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a very, very busy year. I didn’t really expect people to be all that interested, but I guess they’re always looking for something novel with each Shuttle flight, so I guess that was it. I guess what I found the most interesting was after I got back. There’s an organization in New York City [New York] that gives out Mother of the Year Awards, and I received it that following year after I flew. I guess Susan Lucci was in that group, and there was a governor of Kentucky who was a lady. I don’t remember her name. I just thought it was funny that I got an award for being Mother of the Year when I was really, really busy, and then when I took a seven-year leave of absence, I didn’t get it so I found that always kind of ironic. It was neat. My daughter, who just got married on April second, she always tells me I owe it all to her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn’t that nice of her? That’s too funny."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00178:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 54.04905143899474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the whole evolution of everything was kind of a very busy time, because here I was, a new mother. Did we talk about that last time, that I was a new mother and I was training for my flight and was a CapCom [Capsule Communicator]? I think we talked about that last time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we talked about those things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a very, very busy year. I didn’t really expect people to be all that interested, but I guess they’re always looking for something novel with each Shuttle flight, so I guess that was it. I guess what I found the most interesting was after I got back. There’s an organization in New York City [New York] that gives out Mother of the Year Awards, and I received it that following year after I flew. I guess Susan Lucci was in that group, and there was a governor of Kentucky who was a lady. I don’t remember her name. I just thought it was funny that I got an award for being Mother of the Year when I was really, really busy, and then when I took a seven-year leave of absence, I didn’t get it so I found that always kind of ironic. It was neat. My daughter, who just got married on April second, she always tells me I owe it all to her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn’t that nice of her? That’s too funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was interesting, but I guess the strangest question I was asked was either at my preflight press conference or I think we actually had a press conference in flight, and one European reporter asked me how being the operator of an arm made me a better mother. I thought that was kind of a weird question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I read you’re the Astromom at that point."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00178:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 60.05450159888304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a very, very busy year. I didn’t really expect people to be all that interested, but I guess they’re always looking for something novel with each Shuttle flight, so I guess that was it. I guess what I found the most interesting was after I got back. There’s an organization in New York City [New York] that gives out Mother of the Year Awards, and I received it that following year after I flew. I guess Susan Lucci was in that group, and there was a governor of Kentucky who was a lady. I don’t remember her name. I just thought it was funny that I got an award for being Mother of the Year when I was really, really busy, and then when I took a seven-year leave of absence, I didn’t get it so I found that always kind of ironic. It was neat. My daughter, who just got married on April second, she always tells me I owe it all to her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn’t that nice of her? That’s too funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was interesting, but I guess the strangest question I was asked was either at my preflight press conference or I think we actually had a press conference in flight, and one European reporter asked me how being the operator of an arm made me a better mother. I thought that was kind of a weird question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I read you’re the Astromom at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, tell us about the next mission you were assigned to, which I think was supposed to be commanded by Mike [Michael L.] Coats, STS-61H."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00178:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 65.97055217979259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember Judy [Judith A.] Resnik came up with these bright pink bumper stickers that we had made that said, “A Woman’s Place is in the Cockpit,” but we wouldn’t need those anymore, I don’t think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now that you have women in the cockpit.\\n\\n I did want to ask you to talk a little bit about Judy Resnik. I know that you had mentioned you were friends before you came to the office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we didn’t really know each other. She was in the interview group with my husband, who didn’t get selected on that go-around in, I guess, about November. So I actually knew her then through him. Then as it got closer to the announcement, both of us were getting calls from reporters, so we started to realize that something was probably up. And I think the night before when we were expecting the announcement to be issued, we went out to dinner together. The night, when the announcement was made, Bill took us both out to dinner too. Then we’ve just been friends over the years. It was neat sharing that night before and that night after with her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She’s seems to be a very special person. When people talk about her, a lot of people say she was their best friend, so she obviously had a lot of friends in the office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was great. I was actually good friends with her half-sister, who was an interior decorator who helped me get some stuff for my house and went shopping with me up in Dallas [Texas], so I was really good friends with her, her half-sister."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you about an incident that I read about in the newspaper. I was just curious about your insight. There was an interview done with Judy, and basically the headline was something like “Women’s Lib Didn’t Get Astronaut Where She Was.” Basically someone had asked her did she think that the feminist or women’s liberation movements led to her selection, and she said she thought it was her experiences. So I was curious, from your perspective as a female astronaut, do you think it was your experience or a combination of both?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.7427471014491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure thing. My pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We know that you just got back a few weeks ago. How are you feeling?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's going to be six weeks on Friday. I'm feeling very good, actually. I feel remarkably normal for somebody who's spent 141 days in space. I was a little surprised at the readaptation with gravity was a lot easier than I'd anticipated it to be. I thought there'd be weeks of ongoing problems. I have a few inevitable aches and pains, but otherwise everything's fine. I'm out running and enjoying the lovely weather here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Getting used to the heat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you'll have to give us your secret. I don't think any of us are used to the heat."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.380830112721224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's going to be six weeks on Friday. I'm feeling very good, actually. I feel remarkably normal for somebody who's spent 141 days in space. I was a little surprised at the readaptation with gravity was a lot easier than I'd anticipated it to be. I thought there'd be weeks of ongoing problems. I have a few inevitable aches and pains, but otherwise everything's fine. I'm out running and enjoying the lovely weather here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Getting used to the heat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you'll have to give us your secret. I don't think any of us are used to the heat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I spent 141 days in a confined space at a constant temperature. It is nice to get outdoors and in the sunshine and just feel it. It really feels good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that one of the benefits of coming home, to be able to be outside."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 29.312033458579137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you'll have to give us your secret. I don't think any of us are used to the heat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I spent 141 days in a confined space at a constant temperature. It is nice to get outdoors and in the sunshine and just feel it. It really feels good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that one of the benefits of coming home, to be able to be outside."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I'd been looking forward to that, too, having the fresh air and being outside, yes. It's a nice feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know you've talked about being up there and having an unnatural environment that does become the norm. Did it take you long to adapt?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 27.013370509532372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I spent 141 days in a confined space at a constant temperature. It is nice to get outdoors and in the sunshine and just feel it. It really feels good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that one of the benefits of coming home, to be able to be outside."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I'd been looking forward to that, too, having the fresh air and being outside, yes. It's a nice feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know you've talked about being up there and having an unnatural environment that does become the norm. Did it take you long to adapt?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. One of the things that surprised me was how quickly I could adapt to that environment. Now, true, it was my second flight. My first flight was two years ago, and it was only ten days. I was surprised, because on this flight I adapted to being at zero gravity psychologically very quickly, and I very quickly learned to function and to accept that environment as the normal environment, and it felt natural. That was what was so strange, is an environment which is fundamentally so unnatural could so quickly feel natural. It was an interesting experience to go through that, and as the flight progressed, of course, you become more blase about it because you have it all the time, and every now and again you have these little reality checks with, \"Wait a minute. I'm weightless. I can float. That's the way I move,\" and you just have to remind yourself that, yes, you are weightless. Of course, another form of reality check was when you would go and look out the window and have this spectacular view, just to remind you of where you really were. It was a great experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any way to describe what you saw out the window?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.6815227883693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I'd been looking forward to that, too, having the fresh air and being outside, yes. It's a nice feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know you've talked about being up there and having an unnatural environment that does become the norm. Did it take you long to adapt?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. One of the things that surprised me was how quickly I could adapt to that environment. Now, true, it was my second flight. My first flight was two years ago, and it was only ten days. I was surprised, because on this flight I adapted to being at zero gravity psychologically very quickly, and I very quickly learned to function and to accept that environment as the normal environment, and it felt natural. That was what was so strange, is an environment which is fundamentally so unnatural could so quickly feel natural. It was an interesting experience to go through that, and as the flight progressed, of course, you become more blase about it because you have it all the time, and every now and again you have these little reality checks with, \"Wait a minute. I'm weightless. I can float. That's the way I move,\" and you just have to remind yourself that, yes, you are weightless. Of course, another form of reality check was when you would go and look out the window and have this spectacular view, just to remind you of where you really were. It was a great experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any way to describe what you saw out the window?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a series of amazing sights, breathtaking sights; seeing land masses as land masses as you're accustomed to looking at them on a map, seeing familiar contours, but it's not a map, it's actually the land; seeing the atmosphere and atmospheric effects; seeing storms; seeing day change to night and back to day again forty minutes later; and seeing the different parts of the whole planet over the course of an hour and a half. It's really a unique vantage to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the Mir what you expected?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.953352424583414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'd have to capture the scene on a video or something and freeze-frame it, yes, because out the window it's gone in a heartbeat. You'd have to capture it and then draw it off a screen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would that be something that the public will be able to see at some time, or is that your personal--you'd keep for yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's personal, I think. The thing is, when you say publicly that you got sketches done on Mir, everyone expects you to be an artist, and they expect real high quality. Well, I'm not an artist. For me these were very good, I was very pleased with them, but that doesn't mean that they're really high quality, plus they are a personal record, but I'm going to frame them and put them up in my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you reviewed them since you've been home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I've got them at home. They're kind of nice. It's nice to see the date on them and remember the scene and what I was doing when I did them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you do sketches of your roommates?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 20.327249837643635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No lasagna. No lasagna. That came later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What other forms of human contact? I know you used E-mail quite a bit. Was that something you enjoyed doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It turns out E-mail, actually, I think, really is very important, perhaps more important than voice communication. I missed E-mail when it didn't work, and there were quite a few times that it failed, and you really notice it when it's not there because it provides a link to people. You know, it's like getting a letter in the mailbox, something you can sort of hold in your hand and you can reread and prepare a response to. You can relive it. In that sense it's actually sometimes more rewarding to receive an E-mail from home from someone rather than talk to them on a voice contact, which is over in a couple of minutes. So I really enjoyed E-mail very much. I think E-mail is very important for the people on these kinds of missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, you spent time away from home when you were training in Russia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was there for a year in preparation for this flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share some experiences that you went through there, the differences of training from here to there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.796143633049281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went as a back-up. The plan was I'd stay there a year, and David Wolf would go fly the last increment on Mir and I would come back and do something else. I actually undertook that mostly because I was curious about the Russian environment and so on, not expecting that I would get a flight out of it. But I did. I got to fly when the crew reassignments were made, and I feel very privileged that I was one of the seven people that served on this vehicle. It's just amazing to even contemplate that, actually, in hindsight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did your family take the announcement that you were going to be gone so far away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't think they minded that so much. I said, \"I'm going to Russia for a year to just be a non-flight training back-up.\"\\n\\n They just sort of thought, \"Well, that's an unusual thing to do, but you're coming back?\"\\n\\n \"Yes, yes, I'll be coming back.\"\\n\\n But I noticed the conversation got decidedly quiet when I announced that crews had been reassigned and that I was, in fact, going to fly on this vehicle. But I think they trusted my judgment and knew that I wasn't going to do anything impetuous or foolhardy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are they concerned because of all the information that had been released of concerns for safety of Mir?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They never vocalized any concerns, but I've noticed that since I've got back they've vocalized a lot of relief that I'm back. I think they trusted my judgment. All the time I was on that vehicle, I felt safe. I never felt threatened. I thought it was a fascinating way to spend four and a half months, and I never felt any sense of impending danger or any problem like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We all get into routines every day, like you mentioned earlier. Was something more than others that you realized that you couldn't do your routine, something that you do every day here, but up there it changed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.954929537790509, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The thing you notice the most is the lack of options for what you can do. Here you can get in a car and drive up into town or go to a restaurant or go visit a friend or go to a movie or go to the beach, and you have that mobility that provides you a lot of options in what you can do. That's not the case up there. You don't have a lot of options. That's why I talked about recreation being important. You have to exploit the environment for whatever you can to give you as much interesting activities as you can find. So that was the biggest thing, was just not having a lot of options.\\n\\n Of course, I flew with a good crew. I'm lucky I flew with them. I feel they were good guys. But there is only two other people you see the whole time. You don't have a lot of diversity in the people you see over the course of that four-and-a-half-month period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were with two other crewmembers, other than you were with two Russians. You felt like you were all a crew working together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, yes, yes. I definitely felt that we were a team up there, and to their credit, I'll say they worked hard to make sure that that was the way everyone felt, and that was what they wanted, too, because, you know, they were in the same environment I was. They had the same needs, and if any one of them had not been sort of integrated as a crew, it would have been tough on them, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, you left them and they're still there. Have you communicated with them at all since you've been down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven't. Mir is going to be flying over, possibly visible tomorrow night, so it's going to be interesting, the first time I actually get to see it go over now that I'm back. That will be interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it to look over your shoulder and see that you were flying off in the Shuttle and leaving them behind?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.061032819767233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, yes, yes. I definitely felt that we were a team up there, and to their credit, I'll say they worked hard to make sure that that was the way everyone felt, and that was what they wanted, too, because, you know, they were in the same environment I was. They had the same needs, and if any one of them had not been sort of integrated as a crew, it would have been tough on them, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, you left them and they're still there. Have you communicated with them at all since you've been down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven't. Mir is going to be flying over, possibly visible tomorrow night, so it's going to be interesting, the first time I actually get to see it go over now that I'm back. That will be interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it to look over your shoulder and see that you were flying off in the Shuttle and leaving them behind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fascinating, because, you know, I'd spent four and a half months on Mir, but it was inside Mir. I really didn't see the outside of the vehicle. I'd seen it briefly when we first docked, but not a lot. So the fascinating part was that as we pulled away and did a fly-around, I was able for the first time to get to see the outside of what had been my home for twenty weeks. That was really interesting. I'd say, \"Oh, yes, I know that window. I used to look out that window. Oh, is that what that was? I wondered what that thing was.\" And so that was kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your crewmates did go out. You said they had done an EVA."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.290036466408036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven't. Mir is going to be flying over, possibly visible tomorrow night, so it's going to be interesting, the first time I actually get to see it go over now that I'm back. That will be interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it to look over your shoulder and see that you were flying off in the Shuttle and leaving them behind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fascinating, because, you know, I'd spent four and a half months on Mir, but it was inside Mir. I really didn't see the outside of the vehicle. I'd seen it briefly when we first docked, but not a lot. So the fascinating part was that as we pulled away and did a fly-around, I was able for the first time to get to see the outside of what had been my home for twenty weeks. That was really interesting. I'd say, \"Oh, yes, I know that window. I used to look out that window. Oh, is that what that was? I wondered what that thing was.\" And so that was kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your crewmates did go out. You said they had done an EVA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did five EVAs, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your duties while they were busy on the outside?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.544484962675595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fascinating, because, you know, I'd spent four and a half months on Mir, but it was inside Mir. I really didn't see the outside of the vehicle. I'd seen it briefly when we first docked, but not a lot. So the fascinating part was that as we pulled away and did a fly-around, I was able for the first time to get to see the outside of what had been my home for twenty weeks. That was really interesting. I'd say, \"Oh, yes, I know that window. I used to look out that window. Oh, is that what that was? I wondered what that thing was.\" And so that was kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your crewmates did go out. You said they had done an EVA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did five EVAs, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your duties while they were busy on the outside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the time I was glued to the windows, photographing their activities while they did the work, and also taking care of anything that came up inside the station if something did. There were a few calls from the ground to check a few things while they were outdoors. But, yes, they did thirty hours of EVA, and five of them. They did one series of EVAs to repair a solar array on the Spektr module that had been damaged in the collision, to brace it up, to give it some strength, and the other one was to replace an engine which is out on a boom out here that's used for controlling the attitude of the station. So they came out and climbed up this tall boom that's mounted on the station and replaced this engine. There was quite a lot of work that they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you envious that they were there and you were inside? Did you want to be out there with them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.938316625195105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did five EVAs, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your duties while they were busy on the outside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the time I was glued to the windows, photographing their activities while they did the work, and also taking care of anything that came up inside the station if something did. There were a few calls from the ground to check a few things while they were outdoors. But, yes, they did thirty hours of EVA, and five of them. They did one series of EVAs to repair a solar array on the Spektr module that had been damaged in the collision, to brace it up, to give it some strength, and the other one was to replace an engine which is out on a boom out here that's used for controlling the attitude of the station. So they came out and climbed up this tall boom that's mounted on the station and replaced this engine. There was quite a lot of work that they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you envious that they were there and you were inside? Did you want to be out there with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would like to have tried it, but I have to say, thirty hours of EVA is hard, hard work. They worked very hard, and they have my respect for that because it was not an easy thing that they did, by any means. I didn't envy the hard work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The experiments that you performed while you were there, will you be able to follow the results once you're home?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.487018472439006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the time I was glued to the windows, photographing their activities while they did the work, and also taking care of anything that came up inside the station if something did. There were a few calls from the ground to check a few things while they were outdoors. But, yes, they did thirty hours of EVA, and five of them. They did one series of EVAs to repair a solar array on the Spektr module that had been damaged in the collision, to brace it up, to give it some strength, and the other one was to replace an engine which is out on a boom out here that's used for controlling the attitude of the station. So they came out and climbed up this tall boom that's mounted on the station and replaced this engine. There was quite a lot of work that they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you envious that they were there and you were inside? Did you want to be out there with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would like to have tried it, but I have to say, thirty hours of EVA is hard, hard work. They worked very hard, and they have my respect for that because it was not an easy thing that they did, by any means. I didn't envy the hard work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The experiments that you performed while you were there, will you be able to follow the results once you're home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I won't be following them, but they're going to be providing me some briefings on them from time to time--I suppose that's following them, isn't it?--and giving me updates on what they find. It's still too early yet. I haven't had feedback from the results yet. It'll be some time before I do, too. There's a fairly complex analysis needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a favorite of all the ones that you were working on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.207798302710007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would like to have tried it, but I have to say, thirty hours of EVA is hard, hard work. They worked very hard, and they have my respect for that because it was not an easy thing that they did, by any means. I didn't envy the hard work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The experiments that you performed while you were there, will you be able to follow the results once you're home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I won't be following them, but they're going to be providing me some briefings on them from time to time--I suppose that's following them, isn't it?--and giving me updates on what they find. It's still too early yet. I haven't had feedback from the results yet. It'll be some time before I do, too. There's a fairly complex analysis needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a favorite of all the ones that you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I enjoyed them all, because they provided activity, stimulating activity. The biotechnology experiment, growing the cells in the bioreactor, was perhaps the most time-consuming. I'd say that was the one that got most of my attention. That's the one I'm sort of going to be interested to see what the outcome of that was, and it also gave quite a lot of problems during the flight which required a bit of careful work to overcome. So it remains to be seen what the outcome of all that is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the end of the flight, there was a computer glitch."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.119775891900005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I won't be following them, but they're going to be providing me some briefings on them from time to time--I suppose that's following them, isn't it?--and giving me updates on what they find. It's still too early yet. I haven't had feedback from the results yet. It'll be some time before I do, too. There's a fairly complex analysis needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a favorite of all the ones that you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I enjoyed them all, because they provided activity, stimulating activity. The biotechnology experiment, growing the cells in the bioreactor, was perhaps the most time-consuming. I'd say that was the one that got most of my attention. That's the one I'm sort of going to be interested to see what the outcome of that was, and it also gave quite a lot of problems during the flight which required a bit of careful work to overcome. So it remains to be seen what the outcome of all that is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the end of the flight, there was a computer glitch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that give you little anxious feelings of maybe your flight home was going to be delayed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.799750991000007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I enjoyed them all, because they provided activity, stimulating activity. The biotechnology experiment, growing the cells in the bioreactor, was perhaps the most time-consuming. I'd say that was the one that got most of my attention. That's the one I'm sort of going to be interested to see what the outcome of that was, and it also gave quite a lot of problems during the flight which required a bit of careful work to overcome. So it remains to be seen what the outcome of all that is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the end of the flight, there was a computer glitch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that give you little anxious feelings of maybe your flight home was going to be delayed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a concern. The Shuttle was to launch on a Tuesday, and the Saturday before that, just before I was supposed to give a press conference, the attitude-control computer failed, and I thought it was unbelievably bad timing. After twenty weeks this happens and just before a press conference, because one of the things I was going to say in the press conference was how problem-free the flight had been and so on. It turned out the press conference had to be canceled. But I was concerned that if they didn't have attitude control, which meant that the station would be slowly rotating, it wouldn't be possible to dock the Shuttle to it, in which case they would delay the launch until it did get control back.\\n\\n But they worked very hard to change out the computer and reestablish operations, which they had done within a day, I think, a day and a half, perhaps--yes, a day and a half, and so the Shuttle was launching on time and came on time. But for a while there I was thinking, \"Hmm. Wonder when I'm going to see the Shuttle?\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see it approaching?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.666389990000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that give you little anxious feelings of maybe your flight home was going to be delayed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a concern. The Shuttle was to launch on a Tuesday, and the Saturday before that, just before I was supposed to give a press conference, the attitude-control computer failed, and I thought it was unbelievably bad timing. After twenty weeks this happens and just before a press conference, because one of the things I was going to say in the press conference was how problem-free the flight had been and so on. It turned out the press conference had to be canceled. But I was concerned that if they didn't have attitude control, which meant that the station would be slowly rotating, it wouldn't be possible to dock the Shuttle to it, in which case they would delay the launch until it did get control back.\\n\\n But they worked very hard to change out the computer and reestablish operations, which they had done within a day, I think, a day and a half, perhaps--yes, a day and a half, and so the Shuttle was launching on time and came on time. But for a while there I was thinking, \"Hmm. Wonder when I'm going to see the Shuttle?\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see it approaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I saw it first as a point of light out on the horizon, like a bright star. Then you could get binoculars and you could look at it. You could just make out that it was not a star, that it actually was the Shuttle. Then, of course, it came closer and you could see it clearly, and I got some spectacular photos of it just floating around next to us to come up underneath and dock to us. It just got closer and closer, and then at one point you feel the whole station shudder, and you know that they've made contact and have latched on. So it was a great moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I guess the next great moment was when they opened the hatch?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.464679000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I saw it first as a point of light out on the horizon, like a bright star. Then you could get binoculars and you could look at it. You could just make out that it was not a star, that it actually was the Shuttle. Then, of course, it came closer and you could see it clearly, and I got some spectacular photos of it just floating around next to us to come up underneath and dock to us. It just got closer and closer, and then at one point you feel the whole station shudder, and you know that they've made contact and have latched on. So it was a great moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I guess the next great moment was when they opened the hatch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. At that point I knew I was going home. And we had a good time. We spent time together socializing and saying goodbye and packing up, and after three days closed the hatch, made sure I was on the Shuttle side of it, waved goodbye, and slowly pulled away, and then did the fly-around, when I got to look at my home for the last four months.\\n\\n Perhaps one of the most moving moments, though, was as we drew further and further away, we went into the night side of the planet, and I could see stars, and the running lights of the station were on. You couldn't see the station. All you could see was lights flashing, and they were just going off into the distance, these flashing points of light fading out slowly. That was kind of an emotional moment, because I knew that would be the last time I would see it--ever. And that's been the case, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You rode home with one of the people who were very instrumental in having Mir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Valeri Ryumin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to visit, to share any information on the way?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.516310000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. At that point I knew I was going home. And we had a good time. We spent time together socializing and saying goodbye and packing up, and after three days closed the hatch, made sure I was on the Shuttle side of it, waved goodbye, and slowly pulled away, and then did the fly-around, when I got to look at my home for the last four months.\\n\\n Perhaps one of the most moving moments, though, was as we drew further and further away, we went into the night side of the planet, and I could see stars, and the running lights of the station were on. You couldn't see the station. All you could see was lights flashing, and they were just going off into the distance, these flashing points of light fading out slowly. That was kind of an emotional moment, because I knew that would be the last time I would see it--ever. And that's been the case, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You rode home with one of the people who were very instrumental in having Mir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Valeri Ryumin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to visit, to share any information on the way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot during the Shuttle flight. He spent a lot of time on Mir while I was doing the transfer of all the bags and things that I'd packed, and it's my understanding he's going to be preparing some kind of report on the Mir for the Russian Space Agency. I would assume, and I certainly hope, that we would get a copy of that, to see what their interpretation of it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the last American, probably will be the last American there."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 22.795900000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Valeri Ryumin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to visit, to share any information on the way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot during the Shuttle flight. He spent a lot of time on Mir while I was doing the transfer of all the bags and things that I'd packed, and it's my understanding he's going to be preparing some kind of report on the Mir for the Russian Space Agency. I would assume, and I certainly hope, that we would get a copy of that, to see what their interpretation of it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the last American, probably will be the last American there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely will be, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What makes your mission different than the rest?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.39, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely will be, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What makes your mission different than the rest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was my mission. [Laughter] There were seven people that flew up there. We all had sort of similar science that was undertaken. I think mine was probably the most placid of all of them. The first person, Norm [Norman] Thagard, when he went up there, there were a lot of problems to do with the fact that he was the first, and a lot of the things that you need to sustain yourself I don't think he had. So that must have made it tough for him. I don't think they had the E-mail situation worked out nor the [unclear], things like that. Shannon, when she flew, her flight got extended because of Shuttle problems, actually. So she had to stay up there six months instead of four, and that would have been tough, I think. She has a very good spirit about it, though.\\n\\n And of course, for Jerry's [Linenger] increment, John Blaha flew. He had a fairly benign increment, too, much like mine. For Jerry there was the fire, of course, and for Mike [Foale] there was the depressurization. So they had some exciting times on theirs.\\n\\n David [Wolf] had a number of power failures during his. Mine was fairly placid by comparison, which I think is testimony to the capability of the Russians to restore operations, to bring the system back on line, which I think they did well, because I think they recognized that the world was sort of watching what they do with the station, and that they were on the world stage and needed to prove that they could do it, and they did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this your first dealing, working with the Russian partners?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I got to know the Russian culture and mentality reasonably well by spending that year in training beforehand. It sort of gave me a sense of the way they think and the way they approach things and so on, and the Russian engineering, the quality of the Russian engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've been from Australia to American, Russia to Mir, and now back again."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00811:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 19.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I got to know the Russian culture and mentality reasonably well by spending that year in training beforehand. It sort of gave me a sense of the way they think and the way they approach things and so on, and the Russian engineering, the quality of the Russian engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've been from Australia to American, Russia to Mir, and now back again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to stay at home for a while. [Laughter] Yes, I do. Just before I went to Russia, I bought a small house here, which I moved into, only to have to pack up and go to Russia. So I've only just sort of moved into it again. I want to spend time to turn it from a house into a home and enjoy that. For the whole of my time while I was on Mir and the whole of my time training the year before it, my whole life was scheduled. Each day you'd have a piece of paper telling you what you had to do, where you had to be throughout the whole day, and you had to follow that up with hours and hours of study at night because it was all in Russian. It took a long time to read a twenty-page document, a long time.\\n\\n So I'm looking forward to not having a scheduled life. It still is scheduled, the post-flight activities require that, but I'm looking very much forward to, for a while, having an unscheduled life and be free to do what I wish and come and go and be my own master for a while, and enjoy just building a home, getting back into establishing a home here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might even have a pet. You certainly couldn't have pets on Mir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don't think I want a pet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Carol and Summer if they had a question.\n\nWould you say the Shuttle-Mir Program has accomplished everything it set out to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.673624865905245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's a good question. I guess like lots of momentous decisions I've made in my life, it was just sort of coincidental that someone mentioned Peace Corps to me. So I was finishing up in my active duty time in the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in the Army."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I was an air defense artillery officer down in Fort Bliss, Texas. And so trying to figure out, well, what comes next? And one of my fellow officer friends said, well, you should do the Peace Corps. And I'd certainly heard of the Peace Corps, it's a well-known organization, but I honestly hadn't thought about, hadn't thought about going in. And this was in, I guess, 2003."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I thought about it a little bit and I thought, well, you know, she's right. That sounds really interesting. And so I was also interested in doing graduate school following my time in the Army. So my undergraduate degree's in history, and I had pursued some PhD programs but actually didn't get accepted. So I was thinking, OK, well, what else? And so then started looking at, well, how does, how can we connect grad school as well as its potential for Peace Corps? And so I ended up going to graduate school at the University of Montana. And they were part of the Master's International program that I don't think is running anymore. But it's where the Peace Corps would essentially serve as my research time. So it would be incorporated into the graduate program. And the graduate program was a master's of science in resource conservation. And so that's how it came to be. I applied for graduate school and for the Peace Corps at the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, interesting. And the Peace Corps called first?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.748472073228049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I was an air defense artillery officer down in Fort Bliss, Texas. And so trying to figure out, well, what comes next? And one of my fellow officer friends said, well, you should do the Peace Corps. And I'd certainly heard of the Peace Corps, it's a well-known organization, but I honestly hadn't thought about, hadn't thought about going in. And this was in, I guess, 2003."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I thought about it a little bit and I thought, well, you know, she's right. That sounds really interesting. And so I was also interested in doing graduate school following my time in the Army. So my undergraduate degree's in history, and I had pursued some PhD programs but actually didn't get accepted. So I was thinking, OK, well, what else? And so then started looking at, well, how does, how can we connect grad school as well as its potential for Peace Corps? And so I ended up going to graduate school at the University of Montana. And they were part of the Master's International program that I don't think is running anymore. But it's where the Peace Corps would essentially serve as my research time. So it would be incorporated into the graduate program. And the graduate program was a master's of science in resource conservation. And so that's how it came to be. I applied for graduate school and for the Peace Corps at the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, interesting. And the Peace Corps called first?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is a good question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because I seem to recall waiting quite a while to hear from them."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.942746748031166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I thought about it a little bit and I thought, well, you know, she's right. That sounds really interesting. And so I was also interested in doing graduate school following my time in the Army. So my undergraduate degree's in history, and I had pursued some PhD programs but actually didn't get accepted. So I was thinking, OK, well, what else? And so then started looking at, well, how does, how can we connect grad school as well as its potential for Peace Corps? And so I ended up going to graduate school at the University of Montana. And they were part of the Master's International program that I don't think is running anymore. But it's where the Peace Corps would essentially serve as my research time. So it would be incorporated into the graduate program. And the graduate program was a master's of science in resource conservation. And so that's how it came to be. I applied for graduate school and for the Peace Corps at the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, interesting. And the Peace Corps called first?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is a good question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because I seem to recall waiting quite a while to hear from them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did take a, it did take a while. Yeah, I think. I think continues to still take. I don't remember the exact timeline."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Fiji your first offer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.158607497812406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is a good question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because I seem to recall waiting quite a while to hear from them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did take a, it did take a while. Yeah, I think. I think continues to still take. I don't remember the exact timeline."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Fiji your first offer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fiji was my first offer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, lucky you."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.084700614583216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fiji was my first offer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, lucky you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I got the call. I had already, in fact. So graduate school must have been first because I was at, I was in Missoula at the University of Montana when I got the call. I think it was already spring semester and so the recruiter or the placement officer said, well, what do you? I've got a place for you. Because as part of the Master's International program, I knew that it would be in the environment field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it. I didn't put any preference for location because my Spanish and French skills are pretty basic, so it wouldn't make the cut for the programs that had that language requirement. But other than that, I was wide open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you do have an aptitude for languages then. Did you learn Fijian?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.094111793981352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I got the call. I had already, in fact. So graduate school must have been first because I was at, I was in Missoula at the University of Montana when I got the call. I think it was already spring semester and so the recruiter or the placement officer said, well, what do you? I've got a place for you. Because as part of the Master's International program, I knew that it would be in the environment field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it. I didn't put any preference for location because my Spanish and French skills are pretty basic, so it wouldn't make the cut for the programs that had that language requirement. But other than that, I was wide open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you do have an aptitude for languages then. Did you learn Fijian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did. Yeah, and it's, um, that was one of my motivations for going into the Peace Corps. I was, I really love languages and love trying to learn them. It's, I have an aptitude for it, I would say. But of course, it's still a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So before we get too far into Fiji. So what did you do with all your stuff, your personal belongings and everything while you were gone for two years?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.771235326645946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it. I didn't put any preference for location because my Spanish and French skills are pretty basic, so it wouldn't make the cut for the programs that had that language requirement. But other than that, I was wide open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you do have an aptitude for languages then. Did you learn Fijian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did. Yeah, and it's, um, that was one of my motivations for going into the Peace Corps. I was, I really love languages and love trying to learn them. It's, I have an aptitude for it, I would say. But of course, it's still a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So before we get too far into Fiji. So what did you do with all your stuff, your personal belongings and everything while you were gone for two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "While I was gone. Well, I originally grew up in Helena, Montana, so it was only a hundred miles away and I had moved up. I finished active duty service with the Army in 2003, moved stuff back up to Montana, and I think my, uh, I think my dad absorbed it all in his house and some went to my brother. I actually loaned my car to a friend for a couple of years. So, yeah, I didn't have too much still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a win win."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.523594807384384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did. Yeah, and it's, um, that was one of my motivations for going into the Peace Corps. I was, I really love languages and love trying to learn them. It's, I have an aptitude for it, I would say. But of course, it's still a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So before we get too far into Fiji. So what did you do with all your stuff, your personal belongings and everything while you were gone for two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "While I was gone. Well, I originally grew up in Helena, Montana, so it was only a hundred miles away and I had moved up. I finished active duty service with the Army in 2003, moved stuff back up to Montana, and I think my, uh, I think my dad absorbed it all in his house and some went to my brother. I actually loaned my car to a friend for a couple of years. So, yeah, I didn't have too much still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a win win."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was young and pretty young and single and little more than just what could fit in the car."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to ask you, did the Army help prepare you for Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.359549785982649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "While I was gone. Well, I originally grew up in Helena, Montana, so it was only a hundred miles away and I had moved up. I finished active duty service with the Army in 2003, moved stuff back up to Montana, and I think my, uh, I think my dad absorbed it all in his house and some went to my brother. I actually loaned my car to a friend for a couple of years. So, yeah, I didn't have too much still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a win win."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was young and pretty young and single and little more than just what could fit in the car."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to ask you, did the Army help prepare you for Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes and no. Yes in that you certainly need to learn to adapt. You're going to be flexible to a variety of environments, could be adverse conditions, but pretty flexible and flexible in coming into a situation just trying to understand what's happening there and acclimating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little survival training too, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.121467470483742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit, a little bit. Not as much as maybe you would hope for. I bet they do more of it now, but I'd say no in that the Army is pretty structured."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there's the right way to do it and wrong way. Now there is room for creativity and thinking on your feet and all. But then the Peace Corps and especially Fiji and Fiji time, right, was a polar opposite. But I will say that the Fijians that I worked with, especially the indigenous Fijians, really highly respected military service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they were actually really confused. How? Why on earth would I have gotten out of the Army? Which is this prestigious occupation that many of them, especially the men, hope to be able to go serve with the British military or others. And here I am, choosing to get out of the Army and to come to Fiji as a Peace Corps volunteer. So that confused them a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Uh-huh. Interesting. You mentioned Fiji time. Tell me what that is."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.594404284547829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they were actually really confused. How? Why on earth would I have gotten out of the Army? Which is this prestigious occupation that many of them, especially the men, hope to be able to go serve with the British military or others. And here I am, choosing to get out of the Army and to come to Fiji as a Peace Corps volunteer. So that confused them a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Uh-huh. Interesting. You mentioned Fiji time. Tell me what that is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's just the sort of non clock based, much slower pace, you know, I think often general sense of island time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in Fiji, specifically what I can remember is, it seemed like if I would press and say, well, when is this event going to start? It would either start at 9:00 or at 1:00. And nine o'clock meant sometime in the morning, probably before lunch, and one o'clock meant probably sometime before dinner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or maybe tomorrow."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.104893649497587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's just the sort of non clock based, much slower pace, you know, I think often general sense of island time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in Fiji, specifically what I can remember is, it seemed like if I would press and say, well, when is this event going to start? It would either start at 9:00 or at 1:00. And nine o'clock meant sometime in the morning, probably before lunch, and one o'clock meant probably sometime before dinner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or maybe tomorrow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And tomorrow was potentially never."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm sure we would call the coconut wireless."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.30233783888591, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And tomorrow was potentially never."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm sure we would call the coconut wireless."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, indeed, indeed. Among Peace Corps volunteers. Now, of course, in my era we did have email."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we weren't all connected quite like I imagine volunteers are now, but we could go to an internet cafe and actually be in touch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh boy, that's a big difference. Well, I want to hear all about that when we talk about Fiji a little bit more but."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.002597598762121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, indeed, indeed. Among Peace Corps volunteers. Now, of course, in my era we did have email."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we weren't all connected quite like I imagine volunteers are now, but we could go to an internet cafe and actually be in touch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh boy, that's a big difference. Well, I want to hear all about that when we talk about Fiji a little bit more but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you learn the language? Where was your training held?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.064935307113729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you learn the language? Where was your training held?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So our training was just outside of Suva at, I believe it's called Nandave, and it was a vocational training center for, I can't remember if it's young men and women or just young men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we held about, we were there for about two weeks, I believe. And then we went out with host families at a series of villages. And unfortunately, I can't right off the top of my head remember the name of my fantastic village where we did our training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, we should have a map in front of us, but maybe we can reference one later on."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.6277058967930325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So our training was just outside of Suva at, I believe it's called Nandave, and it was a vocational training center for, I can't remember if it's young men and women or just young men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we held about, we were there for about two weeks, I believe. And then we went out with host families at a series of villages. And unfortunately, I can't right off the top of my head remember the name of my fantastic village where we did our training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, we should have a map in front of us, but maybe we can reference one later on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so two weeks and then a village stay. Or several villages."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.602106045423497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so two weeks and then a village stay. Or several villages."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were each assigned to different villages. There was a group of, I'd say, about five of us in the village. And so there was a language trainer and we learned the standard Fijian or known as the Bauan language. And so that was the, that was our kind of primary schooling. And then our host family, you know, would help with that too. And so I was with a family, with a mother, her adult daughter, and then the daughter's two children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And all of the, the elder, the grandmother there, she knew some English, but she wouldn't speak it to me. She knew that I was supposed to learn Fijian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for her."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.113451161581663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were each assigned to different villages. There was a group of, I'd say, about five of us in the village. And so there was a language trainer and we learned the standard Fijian or known as the Bauan language. And so that was the, that was our kind of primary schooling. And then our host family, you know, would help with that too. And so I was with a family, with a mother, her adult daughter, and then the daughter's two children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And all of the, the elder, the grandmother there, she knew some English, but she wouldn't speak it to me. She knew that I was supposed to learn Fijian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the kids, the kids helped. So I would say I had a wonderful family who really took an interest in helping me learn the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's great. Yeah, nice. So from the language, so you did all your training in country?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4593901795351805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And all of the, the elder, the grandmother there, she knew some English, but she wouldn't speak it to me. She knew that I was supposed to learn Fijian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the kids, the kids helped. So I would say I had a wonderful family who really took an interest in helping me learn the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's great. Yeah, nice. So from the language, so you did all your training in country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, except for a three-day pre-service in Los Angeles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, just staging."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2708520735002224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, except for a three-day pre-service in Los Angeles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, just staging."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The staging, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yes, the rest was in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you happen to drink kava while you were in the training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.745391192778024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The staging, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yes, the rest was in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you happen to drink kava while you were in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, apparently that was definitely a key part of the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us about kava."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.16154576975336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yes, the rest was in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you happen to drink kava while you were in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, apparently that was definitely a key part of the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us about kava."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. So kava, or in Fijian known as yagona, which is made from the roots of a pepper plant. And it was sort of humorously called dirty water, but it kind of looks and kind of tastes like dirty water. But it's, you know, it's common in really across a lot of Pacific islands and Fiji, they get in into the drinking yagona. It's part of just every community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's kind of like the passport into a village, as I recall,"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.512828633059289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, apparently that was definitely a key part of the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us about kava."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. So kava, or in Fijian known as yagona, which is made from the roots of a pepper plant. And it was sort of humorously called dirty water, but it kind of looks and kind of tastes like dirty water. But it's, you know, it's common in really across a lot of Pacific islands and Fiji, they get in into the drinking yagona. It's part of just every community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's kind of like the passport into a village, as I recall,"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, it is. It's part of what's called the sevusevu or offering when. So if you're going into a new place, including when we got to our sites and even, you know, when we certainly the ground had already been laid for us to the training, the training villages. But my guess is that there was one of the Fijian Peace Corps staff went in and did a sevusevu where they offer a big bundle of kava and some kind of ceremonial talk goes back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever learn the presentation of the kava?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.903142925621432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. So kava, or in Fijian known as yagona, which is made from the roots of a pepper plant. And it was sort of humorously called dirty water, but it kind of looks and kind of tastes like dirty water. But it's, you know, it's common in really across a lot of Pacific islands and Fiji, they get in into the drinking yagona. It's part of just every community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's kind of like the passport into a village, as I recall,"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, it is. It's part of what's called the sevusevu or offering when. So if you're going into a new place, including when we got to our sites and even, you know, when we certainly the ground had already been laid for us to the training, the training villages. But my guess is that there was one of the Fijian Peace Corps staff went in and did a sevusevu where they offer a big bundle of kava and some kind of ceremonial talk goes back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever learn the presentation of the kava?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not perfectly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because usually the chief would have a spokesperson, but I learned it if you'd like to hear a little bit of Fijian for the record, or would you like to say something?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.336825472912702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, it is. It's part of what's called the sevusevu or offering when. So if you're going into a new place, including when we got to our sites and even, you know, when we certainly the ground had already been laid for us to the training, the training villages. But my guess is that there was one of the Fijian Peace Corps staff went in and did a sevusevu where they offer a big bundle of kava and some kind of ceremonial talk goes back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever learn the presentation of the kava?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not perfectly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because usually the chief would have a spokesperson, but I learned it if you'd like to hear a little bit of Fijian for the record, or would you like to say something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's too rusty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's have a little conversation. Ni sa bula, Paul."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.818694969903002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not perfectly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because usually the chief would have a spokesperson, but I learned it if you'd like to hear a little bit of Fijian for the record, or would you like to say something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's too rusty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's have a little conversation. Ni sa bula, Paul."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sa bula vinaka."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sa vacava tiko? How are you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3541055221144465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's too rusty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's have a little conversation. Ni sa bula, Paul."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sa bula vinaka."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sa vacava tiko? How are you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, sorry, I have some Spanish mixed in there now too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't that how it goes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.949006135682718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sa bula vinaka."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sa vacava tiko? How are you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, sorry, I have some Spanish mixed in there now too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't that how it goes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me do this sevusevu, because I should have brought some kava to present to you because I'm here in your office. So let's just pretend that this recorder is some yagona. [speaks Fijian] So that was in the northern island dialect, which probably sounded a little different than what you're used to speaking."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.610006817425242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, sorry, I have some Spanish mixed in there now too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't that how it goes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me do this sevusevu, because I should have brought some kava to present to you because I'm here in your office. So let's just pretend that this recorder is some yagona. [speaks Fijian] So that was in the northern island dialect, which probably sounded a little different than what you're used to speaking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit. But excellent. Well done. Well done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remembered it over the years, and practiced it."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.0111186860280466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me do this sevusevu, because I should have brought some kava to present to you because I'm here in your office. So let's just pretend that this recorder is some yagona. [speaks Fijian] So that was in the northern island dialect, which probably sounded a little different than what you're used to speaking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit. But excellent. Well done. Well done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remembered it over the years, and practiced it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think certainly mine's gotten rusty. But yeah, so I did learn a little bit, but definitely in. And so where I was located in Cuvu village was in western Viti Levu. So the main island, about a little closer between Nadi and Suva."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Sigatoka. On the south side, I believe."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7587361948258526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And just about six miles west, right next to the Shangri- La Fijian Resort. So big, big resort along the coral coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the language there is, linguists considered a separate language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so. So for example, [speaks Fijian], right? I'm full or I'm hungry in the nandrolone dialect is [speaks Fijian]. So it's just, it's just different. Even grammatically, there's some structural differences so that the present tense indicator is at the end of the sentence. So there's enough changes both in the grammar, the lexicon, and just the sounds, the phonics of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much trouble learning Fijian?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4058471541059907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so. So for example, [speaks Fijian], right? I'm full or I'm hungry in the nandrolone dialect is [speaks Fijian]. So it's just, it's just different. Even grammatically, there's some structural differences so that the present tense indicator is at the end of the sentence. So there's enough changes both in the grammar, the lexicon, and just the sounds, the phonics of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much trouble learning Fijian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, probably learning well, just because most people's English was better than my Fijian would ever get. So they would typically speak to me in English, and if we were actually doing something official or business as opposed to actually just sort of banter or practicing with the language, mostly it was in English. So it was kind of on my own as more of a hobby. And I, all throughout, I was trying to learn the dialect and actually put together a little tiny dictionary of about three pages of words and phrases for volunteers that were going to follow behind me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the area. But I never got. In retrospect, I wish I would have made more effort to learn the dialect because that's what they could understand the standard Fijian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what endears you to the people, I think."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.784274615673323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, probably learning well, just because most people's English was better than my Fijian would ever get. So they would typically speak to me in English, and if we were actually doing something official or business as opposed to actually just sort of banter or practicing with the language, mostly it was in English. So it was kind of on my own as more of a hobby. And I, all throughout, I was trying to learn the dialect and actually put together a little tiny dictionary of about three pages of words and phrases for volunteers that were going to follow behind me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the area. But I never got. In retrospect, I wish I would have made more effort to learn the dialect because that's what they could understand the standard Fijian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what endears you to the people, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how were you received in the village when you first got there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.204749572970359, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the area. But I never got. In retrospect, I wish I would have made more effort to learn the dialect because that's what they could understand the standard Fijian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what endears you to the people, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how were you received in the village when you first got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely, definitely friendly. And we were supposed to have our own housing when we got there at that time, for the Fiji groups at the time, and there was not housing available for me yet. So I stayed with my counterpart's family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Counterpart being somebody else at the office?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.079937744407851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely, definitely friendly. And we were supposed to have our own housing when we got there at that time, for the Fiji groups at the time, and there was not housing available for me yet. So I stayed with my counterpart's family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Counterpart being somebody else at the office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the counterpart is sort of my main coworker, the main person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fijian counterpart?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fijian counterpart, exactly, my main contact in the village. The person that I worked most closely with through the two years. And so, yeah, we definitely had the, certainly had the sevusevu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure you did. How long do you recall staying with him before you did get another place?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8023922770467293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fijian counterpart, exactly, my main contact in the village. The person that I worked most closely with through the two years. And so, yeah, we definitely had the, certainly had the sevusevu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure you did. How long do you recall staying with him before you did get another place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about four months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was a, that was a stressor for my time. Just because if I knew all along it was going to be with a host family, then it would have been fine. But the expectation was to have my own space and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.694311453144111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was a, that was a stressor for my time. Just because if I knew all along it was going to be with a host family, then it would have been fine. But the expectation was to have my own space and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in a cross-cultural setting, it's kind of nice to have a home base where you can just kind of decompress and relax. And especially I'm more on the introverted side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Fijian culture is not on the introverted side. Really social."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's probably where I picked it up."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.104790503493456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in a cross-cultural setting, it's kind of nice to have a home base where you can just kind of decompress and relax. And especially I'm more on the introverted side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Fijian culture is not on the introverted side. Really social."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's probably where I picked it up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You might have fit very well. So it's. So that was a point of contention. I actually left my site for a few weeks and was potentially going to move to another site. And they said, OK, no, wait, we've got a place for you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's good."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.560878337214951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Fijian culture is not on the introverted side. Really social."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's probably where I picked it up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You might have fit very well. So it's. So that was a point of contention. I actually left my site for a few weeks and was potentially going to move to another site. And they said, OK, no, wait, we've got a place for you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And fixed up one of the teacher's quarters at the primary school. So I ended up being living on the just outside of the village on the school grounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice. So what would an ordinary day look like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.067642596905501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You might have fit very well. So it's. So that was a point of contention. I actually left my site for a few weeks and was potentially going to move to another site. And they said, OK, no, wait, we've got a place for you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And fixed up one of the teacher's quarters at the primary school. So I ended up being living on the just outside of the village on the school grounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice. So what would an ordinary day look like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that's a great question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If there is such a thing."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.519602885450556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And fixed up one of the teacher's quarters at the primary school. So I ended up being living on the just outside of the village on the school grounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice. So what would an ordinary day look like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that's a great question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If there is such a thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn't. Yeah. One day a week there would be community work. And that's, I think, was usually Mondays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like farming or what?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5797566487043895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn't. Yeah. One day a week there would be community work. And that's, I think, was usually Mondays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like farming or what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If it was cutting the grass or clearing the ibulubulu, the cemetery there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it would be kind of whatever the community had going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that was one day of the week."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.199729609671544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If it was cutting the grass or clearing the ibulubulu, the cemetery there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it would be kind of whatever the community had going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that was one day of the week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was one day. And then like I think a lot of Peace Corps volunteers, I feel like my biggest job was figuring out what my job was supposed to be. And so what I ended up kind of shaping was, since I was at the school and there was certainly a need at the school. Well, teacher was not part of the job description or anything, I just found a need there. So I actually organized the books in the library and started a checkout system and started an environment club for middle schoolers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Middle school. OK, so what ages would that have been?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.666366232968382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it would be kind of whatever the community had going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that was one day of the week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was one day. And then like I think a lot of Peace Corps volunteers, I feel like my biggest job was figuring out what my job was supposed to be. And so what I ended up kind of shaping was, since I was at the school and there was certainly a need at the school. Well, teacher was not part of the job description or anything, I just found a need there. So I actually organized the books in the library and started a checkout system and started an environment club for middle schoolers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Middle school. OK, so what ages would that have been?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it would have been. The school was equivalent of like first through eighth grade. So it would, it was primarily 12, 13 year olds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So sixth, seventh, eighth."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.1848513699648695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was one day. And then like I think a lot of Peace Corps volunteers, I feel like my biggest job was figuring out what my job was supposed to be. And so what I ended up kind of shaping was, since I was at the school and there was certainly a need at the school. Well, teacher was not part of the job description or anything, I just found a need there. So I actually organized the books in the library and started a checkout system and started an environment club for middle schoolers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Middle school. OK, so what ages would that have been?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it would have been. The school was equivalent of like first through eighth grade. So it would, it was primarily 12, 13 year olds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So sixth, seventh, eighth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As we understand."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.53872374440541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it would have been. The school was equivalent of like first through eighth grade. So it would, it was primarily 12, 13 year olds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So sixth, seventh, eighth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As we understand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And so that was about. And I worked with the slow English readers as well, just giving them some one-on-one time. And so that equated to about two full days a week. And then really the other days there was nothing standard. There was nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Except Sunday maybe."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.931915271561566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As we understand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And so that was about. And I worked with the slow English readers as well, just giving them some one-on-one time. And so that equated to about two full days a week. And then really the other days there was nothing standard. There was nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Except Sunday maybe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sunday was a day of rest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And church probably."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6196484834093408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sunday was a day of rest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And church probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And church, absolutely. So I would typically go to the local church, which was Methodist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Methodist, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then afterwards, we would usually go to someone's house and have a meal and sit and watch some rugby on TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a popular pastime."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.021831648232601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And church, absolutely. So I would typically go to the local church, which was Methodist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Methodist, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then afterwards, we would usually go to someone's house and have a meal and sit and watch some rugby on TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a popular pastime."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe a little different than your experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You just said TV. Now we didn't have TV back in '78. Do you remember when it came about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.468701831369556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then afterwards, we would usually go to someone's house and have a meal and sit and watch some rugby on TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a popular pastime."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe a little different than your experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You just said TV. Now we didn't have TV back in '78. Do you remember when it came about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was there when you got there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9366689276167355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was there when you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was there when I got there and it was primarily, um, people watch movies. So there were DVDs as well. But otherwise it was, Fiji One was the main channel. And then if it was, if it was other programing, kind of Western programing, it mainly came from"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "BBC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From New Zealand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, New Zealand."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.151854364018595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was there when I got there and it was primarily, um, people watch movies. So there were DVDs as well. But otherwise it was, Fiji One was the main channel. And then if it was, if it was other programing, kind of Western programing, it mainly came from"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "BBC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From New Zealand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, New Zealand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "New Zealand, Australia, about a thousand miles away each. So you had TV. That means you must have had electricity."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6566103259488827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "New Zealand, Australia, about a thousand miles away each. So you had TV. That means you must have had electricity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lucky guy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had electricity and most of the time I had running water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. And lights I assume, with the electricity?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.644184260560881, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Light. You know, really pretty, pretty nice housing, I even rented a refrigerator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "While I was there, which was my finest luxury, and I don't regret it one day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you probably had lots of visitors. Were you able to keep anything cold in there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.049093622845423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Light. You know, really pretty, pretty nice housing, I even rented a refrigerator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "While I was there, which was my finest luxury, and I don't regret it one day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you probably had lots of visitors. Were you able to keep anything cold in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm alluding to Fiji beer."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4989929142726925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "While I was there, which was my finest luxury, and I don't regret it one day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you probably had lots of visitors. Were you able to keep anything cold in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm alluding to Fiji beer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, little Fiji beer may have been in there occasionally. And then one other time a gecko got in there, which was, I don't know how he got in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A gecko like a little lizard?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.998881015858547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm alluding to Fiji beer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, little Fiji beer may have been in there occasionally. And then one other time a gecko got in there, which was, I don't know how he got in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A gecko like a little lizard?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little lizard, yeah, yeah. And the poor guy fell out of there all frozen because, yeah, being cold blooded. And then he had to thaw out and I saw him kind of scamper his way back up, back up the wall. But oh, it was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do for fun in your pastime?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.44320112873172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, little Fiji beer may have been in there occasionally. And then one other time a gecko got in there, which was, I don't know how he got in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A gecko like a little lizard?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little lizard, yeah, yeah. And the poor guy fell out of there all frozen because, yeah, being cold blooded. And then he had to thaw out and I saw him kind of scamper his way back up, back up the wall. But oh, it was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do for fun in your pastime?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you mentioned drinking kava, so there would often be, right, if you just kind of stroll through the village and they'd call out in our dialect, dua na bilo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A bilo is a bowl."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.825779031924133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little lizard, yeah, yeah. And the poor guy fell out of there all frozen because, yeah, being cold blooded. And then he had to thaw out and I saw him kind of scamper his way back up, back up the wall. But oh, it was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do for fun in your pastime?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you mentioned drinking kava, so there would often be, right, if you just kind of stroll through the village and they'd call out in our dialect, dua na bilo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A bilo is a bowl."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One cup. Well, come have one cup of kava and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A coconut bowl, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.250865591026814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you mentioned drinking kava, so there would often be, right, if you just kind of stroll through the village and they'd call out in our dialect, dua na bilo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A bilo is a bowl."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One cup. Well, come have one cup of kava and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A coconut bowl, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, exactly, about half of a coconut shell. And for whatever reason, you just sort of kind of walk back and forth and don't go in right away and then finally go in and you, gosh, you can sit there for quite a while. So that ended up passing the time quite a bit. I really loved learning the language, and so I absorbed whatever I could by book and by listening to it. But again, that was the standard Fijian, so it was a little harder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember singing or music?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.723183990029794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One cup. Well, come have one cup of kava and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A coconut bowl, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, exactly, about half of a coconut shell. And for whatever reason, you just sort of kind of walk back and forth and don't go in right away and then finally go in and you, gosh, you can sit there for quite a while. So that ended up passing the time quite a bit. I really loved learning the language, and so I absorbed whatever I could by book and by listening to it. But again, that was the standard Fijian, so it was a little harder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember singing or music?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly at church. And I didn't do. I played the saxophone, but I didn't take the saxophone there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's too bad, they would have loved that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.247982211144215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, exactly, about half of a coconut shell. And for whatever reason, you just sort of kind of walk back and forth and don't go in right away and then finally go in and you, gosh, you can sit there for quite a while. So that ended up passing the time quite a bit. I really loved learning the language, and so I absorbed whatever I could by book and by listening to it. But again, that was the standard Fijian, so it was a little harder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember singing or music?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly at church. And I didn't do. I played the saxophone, but I didn't take the saxophone there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's too bad, they would have loved that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I bet they would have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a guitar in the village that people played while you're sitting in the circle drinking kava?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.8310913457157945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly at church. And I didn't do. I played the saxophone, but I didn't take the saxophone there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's too bad, they would have loved that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I bet they would have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a guitar in the village that people played while you're sitting in the circle drinking kava?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I feel like I saw more of that when I visited some of the other volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Because that would have been my story."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.47899038412866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I bet they would have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a guitar in the village that people played while you're sitting in the circle drinking kava?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I feel like I saw more of that when I visited some of the other volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Because that would have been my story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Largely related to music."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.1988782045874, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I feel like I saw more of that when I visited some of the other volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Because that would have been my story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Largely related to music."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What a great way to integrate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was. It was a good key to the culture. So back to work. So what did you do on a daily basis for work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.665420227319333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Largely related to music."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What a great way to integrate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was. It was a good key to the culture. So back to work. So what did you do on a daily basis for work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the school was, and I really struggled with that. I think as Americans we're trained to be productive, to value productivity, to ride that through schooling. That's how you achieve. And the Peace Corps is such an astonishing wakeup call in that regard, because I can't speak for all volunteers, but I sure was not feeling productive. And on a day-to-day basis, usually we know what we need to work on and we go set out to it and we can get it done. And there, it just was difficult to figure it out. What? So, you know, the village did have to request a volunteer, but I think really they only had about two or three months' worth of work that they had in mind. Setting up a waste management workshop and some follow up with some non-profits, some non-governmental organizations, NGOs, that had done some work in the area and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, waste management would be a big deal in the village. What did you have, pit latrines or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.072689141465926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What a great way to integrate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was. It was a good key to the culture. So back to work. So what did you do on a daily basis for work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the school was, and I really struggled with that. I think as Americans we're trained to be productive, to value productivity, to ride that through schooling. That's how you achieve. And the Peace Corps is such an astonishing wakeup call in that regard, because I can't speak for all volunteers, but I sure was not feeling productive. And on a day-to-day basis, usually we know what we need to work on and we go set out to it and we can get it done. And there, it just was difficult to figure it out. What? So, you know, the village did have to request a volunteer, but I think really they only had about two or three months' worth of work that they had in mind. Setting up a waste management workshop and some follow up with some non-profits, some non-governmental organizations, NGOs, that had done some work in the area and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, waste management would be a big deal in the village. What did you have, pit latrines or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were on a, you know, septic system. So it, really it wasn't a huge issue. It was a, in terms of Fiji, it was a wealthy village because they own the land. The tokatoka, the kinship group, owns the land that the Fijian resort is on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh boy, they get some premiums from that, huh?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.028011285760402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were on a, you know, septic system. So it, really it wasn't a huge issue. It was a, in terms of Fiji, it was a wealthy village because they own the land. The tokatoka, the kinship group, owns the land that the Fijian resort is on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh boy, they get some premiums from that, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So it was a little different. So trying to carve out a Peace Corps volunteer generalist at best, right? I didn't know what I was doing in terms of waste management, coming out of school with a history degree and then working for the Army and air defense artillery. So it didn't exactly equate to waste management. So I was kind of trying to get one chapter ahead. And so that took some time. And so we did that. We set up the workshop and then tried to, from that workshop, tried to follow up on some ideas that that these different villages. I mentioned I worked in six or seven villages. And it just didn't, it just didn't end up being that much work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, six or seven villages, I can only imagine the coordination and the power structure. How did that work with the chiefs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Well, with Cuvu village being the chiefly village of the whole province, it was the traditionally, right, the most powerful village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your chief would be the high chief."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.586679206400447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So it was a little different. So trying to carve out a Peace Corps volunteer generalist at best, right? I didn't know what I was doing in terms of waste management, coming out of school with a history degree and then working for the Army and air defense artillery. So it didn't exactly equate to waste management. So I was kind of trying to get one chapter ahead. And so that took some time. And so we did that. We set up the workshop and then tried to, from that workshop, tried to follow up on some ideas that that these different villages. I mentioned I worked in six or seven villages. And it just didn't, it just didn't end up being that much work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, six or seven villages, I can only imagine the coordination and the power structure. How did that work with the chiefs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Well, with Cuvu village being the chiefly village of the whole province, it was the traditionally, right, the most powerful village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your chief would be the high chief."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, exactly. And so if the traditional structure came into play, then that was fairly, fairly simple. Easy. You could go talk with the person at the top. From village to village, though, I would work with the rokotuli, which is sort of loosely translated as the village headman. It's kind of a funny way. I love that translation, but kind of the mayor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Well, iliuliu does mean chief so."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.207421340444941, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Well, with Cuvu village being the chiefly village of the whole province, it was the traditionally, right, the most powerful village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your chief would be the high chief."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, exactly. And so if the traditional structure came into play, then that was fairly, fairly simple. Easy. You could go talk with the person at the top. From village to village, though, I would work with the rokotuli, which is sort of loosely translated as the village headman. It's kind of a funny way. I love that translation, but kind of the mayor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Well, iliuliu does mean chief so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. So it's an elected, but an elected position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well, that's interesting. Yeah. And did he have, did the chief have a mata ni vanua, the spokesman that would generally accompany him on all visits?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.786023711605489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, exactly. And so if the traditional structure came into play, then that was fairly, fairly simple. Easy. You could go talk with the person at the top. From village to village, though, I would work with the rokotuli, which is sort of loosely translated as the village headman. It's kind of a funny way. I love that translation, but kind of the mayor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Well, iliuliu does mean chief so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. So it's an elected, but an elected position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well, that's interesting. Yeah. And did he have, did the chief have a mata ni vanua, the spokesman that would generally accompany him on all visits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, that was built into it. And I, you know, I don't think it was ever specifically explained to me. Like there he goes. But being at some of these large, large ceremonies, in fact, when Ratu Mara, former prime minister, when his wife died and she was connected to my village, there was a giant ceremony attended from all over the islands and other countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many days did that last?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.317804124006099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. So it's an elected, but an elected position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well, that's interesting. Yeah. And did he have, did the chief have a mata ni vanua, the spokesman that would generally accompany him on all visits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, that was built into it. And I, you know, I don't think it was ever specifically explained to me. Like there he goes. But being at some of these large, large ceremonies, in fact, when Ratu Mara, former prime minister, when his wife died and she was connected to my village, there was a giant ceremony attended from all over the islands and other countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many days did that last?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The event itself was one day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One day. But the gathering, yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.908671248895666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, that was built into it. And I, you know, I don't think it was ever specifically explained to me. Like there he goes. But being at some of these large, large ceremonies, in fact, when Ratu Mara, former prime minister, when his wife died and she was connected to my village, there was a giant ceremony attended from all over the islands and other countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many days did that last?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The event itself was one day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One day. But the gathering, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Giant gathering and offering of gifts to the chief, the provincial chief. Yeah, so who exactly that was. And at different events, it would kind of be different people and it's probably who was there, but there was certainly the mata ni vanua role being served."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure there was. Yeah, I recall a wailing tent from one of the funerals I attended where the women would just go into the tent and the most blood curdling scream would come out of this tent. The men wouldn't go. The men would be sitting there drinking coffee."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.56519027655074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The event itself was one day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One day. But the gathering, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Giant gathering and offering of gifts to the chief, the provincial chief. Yeah, so who exactly that was. And at different events, it would kind of be different people and it's probably who was there, but there was certainly the mata ni vanua role being served."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure there was. Yeah, I recall a wailing tent from one of the funerals I attended where the women would just go into the tent and the most blood curdling scream would come out of this tent. The men wouldn't go. The men would be sitting there drinking coffee."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would drink coffee all day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While the women wailed."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.294655862834155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Giant gathering and offering of gifts to the chief, the provincial chief. Yeah, so who exactly that was. And at different events, it would kind of be different people and it's probably who was there, but there was certainly the mata ni vanua role being served."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure there was. Yeah, I recall a wailing tent from one of the funerals I attended where the women would just go into the tent and the most blood curdling scream would come out of this tent. The men wouldn't go. The men would be sitting there drinking coffee."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would drink coffee all day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While the women wailed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There was, I mean, for, they definitely the big ceremonies or funerals, weddings, first birthdays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And church holidays?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5489578553508085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There was, I mean, for, they definitely the big ceremonies or funerals, weddings, first birthdays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And church holidays?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Church holidays, around Christmas was very, very big. But they could kind of blend in your mind because most of it was sitting and drinking kava."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There'd be some nuances to the ceremony. And of course, the words would be different. But the procedure was very similar. But, you know, that was a really neat thing about being in the village while finding work and knowing where I could be valuable. Being, you know, barely being as competent as a two year old in terms of Fijian culture and the local politics and dynamics. So quickly realizing, and I don't think I suffered illusions that I was going to be extremely knowledgeable technically to help out. But while that was a challenge, the benefit was being immersed in the culture. And even though a lot of people in my village went to work six days a week because it was pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they work in the village or outside the village?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.739454142408405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There'd be some nuances to the ceremony. And of course, the words would be different. But the procedure was very similar. But, you know, that was a really neat thing about being in the village while finding work and knowing where I could be valuable. Being, you know, barely being as competent as a two year old in terms of Fijian culture and the local politics and dynamics. So quickly realizing, and I don't think I suffered illusions that I was going to be extremely knowledgeable technically to help out. But while that was a challenge, the benefit was being immersed in the culture. And even though a lot of people in my village went to work six days a week because it was pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they work in the village or outside the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Outside. So in the various resorts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because my village was pretty well integrated into the cash economy. And so that makes for an interesting dynamic, right, for a Peace Corps volunteer. So it's not like going into a subsistence setting and figuring out a nice project scope. It's instead trying to figure out what's going to enhance the wellbeing of these communities that, right, they're still immersed in Fijian culture. One foot there, but also one foot in going to work. Going to work every day or six days a week and, you know, having to earn some cash."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And who did you report to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.085745854825191, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because my village was pretty well integrated into the cash economy. And so that makes for an interesting dynamic, right, for a Peace Corps volunteer. So it's not like going into a subsistence setting and figuring out a nice project scope. It's instead trying to figure out what's going to enhance the wellbeing of these communities that, right, they're still immersed in Fijian culture. One foot there, but also one foot in going to work. Going to work every day or six days a week and, you know, having to earn some cash."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And who did you report to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I reported to a man, so my site supervisor in the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had a counterpart, a site Fijian counterpart, and then a Fijian supervisor. And so those were the, and they were brothers. So those were the two men who were kind of in charge of putting me to work or keeping me out of trouble. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. OK. Well, so you spent two years there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.873050949805768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I reported to a man, so my site supervisor in the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had a counterpart, a site Fijian counterpart, and then a Fijian supervisor. And so those were the, and they were brothers. So those were the two men who were kind of in charge of putting me to work or keeping me out of trouble. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. OK. Well, so you spent two years there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I did the two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall your feelings as you prepared to leave Fiji?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.525612166450854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had a counterpart, a site Fijian counterpart, and then a Fijian supervisor. And so those were the, and they were brothers. So those were the two men who were kind of in charge of putting me to work or keeping me out of trouble. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. OK. Well, so you spent two years there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I did the two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall your feelings as you prepared to leave Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So leaving Fiji. You know, I think that first, after the first year at the halfway point, I definitely had a little bit of a meltdown. And I think I had not quite shed all of my American values around that productivity. And so you're just wondering, wow, this is stressful, right? Because I'm pretty capable. I'm pretty competent in an American setting. And that's, you know, eye-opening about living a cross-cultural life and being immersed, is you don't feel competent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're kind of starting over."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.250680184945393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I did the two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall your feelings as you prepared to leave Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So leaving Fiji. You know, I think that first, after the first year at the halfway point, I definitely had a little bit of a meltdown. And I think I had not quite shed all of my American values around that productivity. And so you're just wondering, wow, this is stressful, right? Because I'm pretty capable. I'm pretty competent in an American setting. And that's, you know, eye-opening about living a cross-cultural life and being immersed, is you don't feel competent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're kind of starting over."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're starting over. Your jokes aren't funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially in another language."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.056311316605992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So leaving Fiji. You know, I think that first, after the first year at the halfway point, I definitely had a little bit of a meltdown. And I think I had not quite shed all of my American values around that productivity. And so you're just wondering, wow, this is stressful, right? Because I'm pretty capable. I'm pretty competent in an American setting. And that's, you know, eye-opening about living a cross-cultural life and being immersed, is you don't feel competent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're kind of starting over."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're starting over. Your jokes aren't funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially in another language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In another language. You got to learn so much in the context, and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to share one joke with you."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.951457018451102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're starting over. Your jokes aren't funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially in another language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In another language. You got to learn so much in the context, and um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to share one joke with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since the Fijians used to be cannibals, the last guy to get eaten was the missionary, but their biggest insult is, we wouldn't even want to eat you. And I'd say, oh please, just a little bite."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.717848170927286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since the Fijians used to be cannibals, the last guy to get eaten was the missionary, but their biggest insult is, we wouldn't even want to eat you. And I'd say, oh please, just a little bite."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I can see, I bet that was funny the entire time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it just, it takes learning that. And so at the one year mark, I don't, I didn't think seriously about leaving, but we started with 34 volunteers in our, at the beginning of training, and we finished at the two year mark, I think, with 24. So it was, you know, pretty decent amount lost. And yeah, I feel like that was maybe because it was so uncertain that I think the sites at this time, because Fiji, the program closed down from '98 to 2001 or 2002."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right, I forgot about that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.732302017732902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't think. I don't know exactly why. I think it might have just been reallocating resources, but then it opened up in I think 2003. So we were the third group after the program reopened. So we were called FRE-3."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Free three?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "F-R-E dash 3, Fiji Re-Entry Three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I think the program has gone back to the more chronological numbers which I think was really great so you had the continuity. So that was really, that was hard for me. And the second year, I guess in a way, I'd say I got it finally. Quit taking myself so seriously, right? Shed that Army command and control that I had been trained to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.380386855600689, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of moving things forward, of being able to see that progress. And stepping back and saying, let's just, let's just roll with it. What do the folks I'm working with want to work on? I have this little bit of structure at the school. So, great. That made a big difference. So I did know I had at least 15 to 20 hours established, so that second year was just much more relaxing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that coming to the end, you know, there was definitely some relief just because it's, for me being immersed in that Fijian culture and that social communal aspect, which is so awesome, so amazing. But hard for someone who doesn't mind some solitude and solo time. So there was definitely a relief. And definitely also real sadness to be leaving these people I'd gotten real close to, including other volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Such an important network of volunteers and fellow teachers and people I worked with in the village, people in some of the non- governmental organizations. You know, I think moving on from anything is really tough in the sort of the emotional cauldron of Peace Corps. I think that's even more, that's even more powerful. So it was a real mix. And I remember, you know, we talked about drinking quite a bit of kava. So even the last day, a fairly large contingent, probably 10 or so, we actually all came to the airport with me and we sat out on a tiny little strip of grass out in the parking lot and had a couple more tanoas, a couple more bowls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bowls of grog, yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.978207617334099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that coming to the end, you know, there was definitely some relief just because it's, for me being immersed in that Fijian culture and that social communal aspect, which is so awesome, so amazing. But hard for someone who doesn't mind some solitude and solo time. So there was definitely a relief. And definitely also real sadness to be leaving these people I'd gotten real close to, including other volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Such an important network of volunteers and fellow teachers and people I worked with in the village, people in some of the non- governmental organizations. You know, I think moving on from anything is really tough in the sort of the emotional cauldron of Peace Corps. I think that's even more, that's even more powerful. So it was a real mix. And I remember, you know, we talked about drinking quite a bit of kava. So even the last day, a fairly large contingent, probably 10 or so, we actually all came to the airport with me and we sat out on a tiny little strip of grass out in the parking lot and had a couple more tanoas, a couple more bowls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bowls of grog, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of kava before I went and checked in. So definitely a lot of tears."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On both sides, yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.642452908148998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Such an important network of volunteers and fellow teachers and people I worked with in the village, people in some of the non- governmental organizations. You know, I think moving on from anything is really tough in the sort of the emotional cauldron of Peace Corps. I think that's even more, that's even more powerful. So it was a real mix. And I remember, you know, we talked about drinking quite a bit of kava. So even the last day, a fairly large contingent, probably 10 or so, we actually all came to the airport with me and we sat out on a tiny little strip of grass out in the parking lot and had a couple more tanoas, a couple more bowls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bowls of grog, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of kava before I went and checked in. So definitely a lot of tears."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On both sides, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On both sides. And so, yeah, hard. But it was also, I'll admit, definitely a sense of relief when I got on that plane. And it was just kind of like, wow, OK. It's just such a powerful experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have a nickname for you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.158281009054442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of kava before I went and checked in. So definitely a lot of tears."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On both sides, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On both sides. And so, yeah, hard. But it was also, I'll admit, definitely a sense of relief when I got on that plane. And it was just kind of like, wow, OK. It's just such a powerful experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have a nickname for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, just my name. So Paul in Fijian is Vaula or Paula. So being a biblical name, it's pretty common there too. But it, of course, it sounds like Paula, which takes some getting used to, and the Fijian women, you know, would often singsong-y voice if they were calling out to me as I'm walking down the road. They'd say, Paulaaaaa. And so that still rings in my ear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm getting tingles just hearing that, because that flashed back."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.731423343393825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On both sides. And so, yeah, hard. But it was also, I'll admit, definitely a sense of relief when I got on that plane. And it was just kind of like, wow, OK. It's just such a powerful experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have a nickname for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, just my name. So Paul in Fijian is Vaula or Paula. So being a biblical name, it's pretty common there too. But it, of course, it sounds like Paula, which takes some getting used to, and the Fijian women, you know, would often singsong-y voice if they were calling out to me as I'm walking down the road. They'd say, Paulaaaaa. And so that still rings in my ear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm getting tingles just hearing that, because that flashed back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my mind, yeah. Yeah, such truly friendly people. And I would say it's, you know, my experience was, of course, once they get to know you and you get to know them, it becomes more sort of the more universal stand out. Some people don't like you, some people do, and you build some connections."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice. So you got on the plane. Where did you fly to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.257137048215361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, just my name. So Paul in Fijian is Vaula or Paula. So being a biblical name, it's pretty common there too. But it, of course, it sounds like Paula, which takes some getting used to, and the Fijian women, you know, would often singsong-y voice if they were calling out to me as I'm walking down the road. They'd say, Paulaaaaa. And so that still rings in my ear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm getting tingles just hearing that, because that flashed back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my mind, yeah. Yeah, such truly friendly people. And I would say it's, you know, my experience was, of course, once they get to know you and you get to know them, it becomes more sort of the more universal stand out. Some people don't like you, some people do, and you build some connections."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice. So you got on the plane. Where did you fly to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I flew. Let's see, where did I end up flying into? Back into, I believe I went flew into Seattle because, while my home of record was still in Montana, my friend who was borrowing my car lived not too far out of Seattle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He gave you the car back?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.841263386905956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my mind, yeah. Yeah, such truly friendly people. And I would say it's, you know, my experience was, of course, once they get to know you and you get to know them, it becomes more sort of the more universal stand out. Some people don't like you, some people do, and you build some connections."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice. So you got on the plane. Where did you fly to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I flew. Let's see, where did I end up flying into? Back into, I believe I went flew into Seattle because, while my home of record was still in Montana, my friend who was borrowing my car lived not too far out of Seattle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He gave you the car back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did. He did. It was mostly in one piece. He did a pretty good job taking care of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that sounds very Fijian too, what's yours is yours and what's yours is mine."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.490292652117729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I flew. Let's see, where did I end up flying into? Back into, I believe I went flew into Seattle because, while my home of record was still in Montana, my friend who was borrowing my car lived not too far out of Seattle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He gave you the car back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did. He did. It was mostly in one piece. He did a pretty good job taking care of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that sounds very Fijian too, what's yours is yours and what's yours is mine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's exactly right. Ooh, I like your car means I want that car. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or can I use it? Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.1003251690196985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did. He did. It was mostly in one piece. He did a pretty good job taking care of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that sounds very Fijian too, what's yours is yours and what's yours is mine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's exactly right. Ooh, I like your car means I want that car. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or can I use it? Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, and it was nice. So I actually stayed with him and his folks for about three days. And I was really glad for that because it was kind of a good transition zone. I really appreciate that they opened up their house for me, just because it's, one, I mean, there's just so much jet lag that you can't quite grasp it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, Fiji is on the international dateline, so."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.667027965577443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's exactly right. Ooh, I like your car means I want that car. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or can I use it? Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, and it was nice. So I actually stayed with him and his folks for about three days. And I was really glad for that because it was kind of a good transition zone. I really appreciate that they opened up their house for me, just because it's, one, I mean, there's just so much jet lag that you can't quite grasp it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, Fiji is on the international dateline, so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. So there's changes of days involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's right. You lose a day going back. Or you gained one."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.185586628419381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, and it was nice. So I actually stayed with him and his folks for about three days. And I was really glad for that because it was kind of a good transition zone. I really appreciate that they opened up their house for me, just because it's, one, I mean, there's just so much jet lag that you can't quite grasp it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, Fiji is on the international dateline, so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. So there's changes of days involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's right. You lose a day going back. Or you gained one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of as if you flew forever and it only took an hour of clock time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got back the time you lost when going to Fiji."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.761762920465979, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. So there's changes of days involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's right. You lose a day going back. Or you gained one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of as if you flew forever and it only took an hour of clock time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got back the time you lost when going to Fiji."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, exactly. And then I made my way back to my hometown of Helena, Montana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so I want to stay with those first three days. Any culture shock?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.681430617923154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would, I would say there was definitely a little bit. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Such as?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the pace of traffic. And a little bit of, say, the availability of everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like groceries?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Groceries, yeah. I mean, I could go into Sigatoka on a weekly basis and there were supermarkets there. So. So I would say not, not immediately, not too huge. And we just didn't do much in those first three days. And then also, you know, going back to Montana, it's pretty low-key too, small, fairly small town. But it, I would say the culture shock just. Perhaps the shock is when you're realizing all of the things that you didn't think about before, and what it means to be an American and what we value about ourselves and having such a contrasting cultural context to be able to compare with. Of that really communal setting to the much more nuclear family and individual base, so I think that's it. I think it was sort of a protracted culture shock. But I had some built-in time. I think I got home in August and I didn't start with graduate school again. So Peace Corps was embedded in my graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least it wasn't snowing when you got home."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.312700686581282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the pace of traffic. And a little bit of, say, the availability of everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like groceries?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Groceries, yeah. I mean, I could go into Sigatoka on a weekly basis and there were supermarkets there. So. So I would say not, not immediately, not too huge. And we just didn't do much in those first three days. And then also, you know, going back to Montana, it's pretty low-key too, small, fairly small town. But it, I would say the culture shock just. Perhaps the shock is when you're realizing all of the things that you didn't think about before, and what it means to be an American and what we value about ourselves and having such a contrasting cultural context to be able to compare with. Of that really communal setting to the much more nuclear family and individual base, so I think that's it. I think it was sort of a protracted culture shock. But I had some built-in time. I think I got home in August and I didn't start with graduate school again. So Peace Corps was embedded in my graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least it wasn't snowing when you got home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it wasn't snowing. It was warm weather. Yeah. So there was quite a bit of time to transition. I didn't have to jump back into hustle bustle or big city life or, so I think that subdued it a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do when you got home?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.571235415532446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it wasn't snowing. It was warm weather. Yeah. So there was quite a bit of time to transition. I didn't have to jump back into hustle bustle or big city life or, so I think that subdued it a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do when you got home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I knew I was going to go back to graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had one more semester left and I needed to write up my professional paper, which I officially did my research in Fiji. For a long time, I was figuring out, OK, what's it going to be? What's it going to be? And a non-governmental organization did a large project all along that district, and in fact, about five NGOs had done work there in the previous five to 10 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sort of work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.079150461702718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I knew I was going to go back to graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had one more semester left and I needed to write up my professional paper, which I officially did my research in Fiji. For a long time, I was figuring out, OK, what's it going to be? What's it going to be? And a non-governmental organization did a large project all along that district, and in fact, about five NGOs had done work there in the previous five to 10 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sort of work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Environmental. Environmental based work. So waste management, coral gardens. So we're right on the coast with a beautiful reef, as you imagine. But a bit of a degraded reef just because there were villages and resorts all along, all along that coast. So trying to revitalize the reef and the fisheries, and some were governance type issues about how to manage, kind of co-manage those resources. And so one needed to have an independent study done to, I think, apply for future funding about their five year project. And what went well, what didn't? Why was that? So I did 20, 25 interviews with Fijians who were involved in the project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. And that resulted in your paper?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.532389401891909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had one more semester left and I needed to write up my professional paper, which I officially did my research in Fiji. For a long time, I was figuring out, OK, what's it going to be? What's it going to be? And a non-governmental organization did a large project all along that district, and in fact, about five NGOs had done work there in the previous five to 10 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sort of work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Environmental. Environmental based work. So waste management, coral gardens. So we're right on the coast with a beautiful reef, as you imagine. But a bit of a degraded reef just because there were villages and resorts all along, all along that coast. So trying to revitalize the reef and the fisheries, and some were governance type issues about how to manage, kind of co-manage those resources. And so one needed to have an independent study done to, I think, apply for future funding about their five year project. And what went well, what didn't? Why was that? So I did 20, 25 interviews with Fijians who were involved in the project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. And that resulted in your paper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so then I after that, I did that. I wrote up the report for the NGO. That was probably some of my most professional based work that I did there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dealing with other scientists."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.035988224324344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Environmental. Environmental based work. So waste management, coral gardens. So we're right on the coast with a beautiful reef, as you imagine. But a bit of a degraded reef just because there were villages and resorts all along, all along that coast. So trying to revitalize the reef and the fisheries, and some were governance type issues about how to manage, kind of co-manage those resources. And so one needed to have an independent study done to, I think, apply for future funding about their five year project. And what went well, what didn't? Why was that? So I did 20, 25 interviews with Fijians who were involved in the project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. And that resulted in your paper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so then I after that, I did that. I wrote up the report for the NGO. That was probably some of my most professional based work that I did there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dealing with other scientists."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And so I still along the way. And then after that, I was figuring, well, what do I, what am I going to do my research on? Should I do eco-tourism or what? And then after a while, time keeps passing and I'm like, you know, I think I've done my research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you lived it, yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.595542471471493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so then I after that, I did that. I wrote up the report for the NGO. That was probably some of my most professional based work that I did there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dealing with other scientists."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And so I still along the way. And then after that, I was figuring, well, what do I, what am I going to do my research on? Should I do eco-tourism or what? And then after a while, time keeps passing and I'm like, you know, I think I've done my research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you lived it, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I looked back, going back to those, right, I mean, observation, the experience, and then going back to those 20, 25 interviews. I realized, well, that's a good amount of information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a lot of data, yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.217269412746103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And so I still along the way. And then after that, I was figuring, well, what do I, what am I going to do my research on? Should I do eco-tourism or what? And then after a while, time keeps passing and I'm like, you know, I think I've done my research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you lived it, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I looked back, going back to those, right, I mean, observation, the experience, and then going back to those 20, 25 interviews. I realized, well, that's a good amount of information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a lot of data, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And continuing to then expand on what were the challenges that these NGOs, which were, you know, mostly Fijians speaking with Fijians. So what were the challenges? Why did some things not work? Why did most things not work?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you come to any conclusions?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.67564125030383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And continuing to then expand on what were the challenges that these NGOs, which were, you know, mostly Fijians speaking with Fijians. So what were the challenges? Why did some things not work? Why did most things not work?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you come to any conclusions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in a professional paper, of course, and you've got to finish with more research is needed. But yeah, I did have about 10."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And one that that comes to mind, and I think it still applies, is the unreasonable pace of change that's expected in philanthropic giving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me more about that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.417379167004255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in a professional paper, of course, and you've got to finish with more research is needed. But yeah, I did have about 10."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And one that that comes to mind, and I think it still applies, is the unreasonable pace of change that's expected in philanthropic giving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me more about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the expectation is in two to three years, you're going to have a successful project, right? And in a lot of these projects had governance components to them. So behavioral change, structural change tied to the role of women or the role of youth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, cultural change in a chief environment."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.241532407782506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And one that that comes to mind, and I think it still applies, is the unreasonable pace of change that's expected in philanthropic giving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me more about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the expectation is in two to three years, you're going to have a successful project, right? And in a lot of these projects had governance components to them. So behavioral change, structural change tied to the role of women or the role of youth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, cultural change in a chief environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, exactly. And to think that that's going to happen, if some of the solutions. Like bringing back, for instance, fish wardens, which is a traditional role in a Fijian village setting. So bringing back traditional fish wardens to monitor the lagoon, the lagoon area, I think it's a pretty, I think it's a pretty cool idea, but it's a, they're in the cash economy now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you've got to play the game."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.935036008647229, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the expectation is in two to three years, you're going to have a successful project, right? And in a lot of these projects had governance components to them. So behavioral change, structural change tied to the role of women or the role of youth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, cultural change in a chief environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, exactly. And to think that that's going to happen, if some of the solutions. Like bringing back, for instance, fish wardens, which is a traditional role in a Fijian village setting. So bringing back traditional fish wardens to monitor the lagoon, the lagoon area, I think it's a pretty, I think it's a pretty cool idea, but it's a, they're in the cash economy now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you've got to play the game."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So seeing that as a voluntary position. Well, those people who would be fish wardens, really, there's probably some pressure on them to go make money. So that was just a challenge. And just so, I would think it, you know, it probably takes 10 years if you're trying to build leadership and technical capacity at the local level. It's just almost impossible to do in two or three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, it sounds a lot like what you're doing right now."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.705595565163588, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, exactly. And to think that that's going to happen, if some of the solutions. Like bringing back, for instance, fish wardens, which is a traditional role in a Fijian village setting. So bringing back traditional fish wardens to monitor the lagoon, the lagoon area, I think it's a pretty, I think it's a pretty cool idea, but it's a, they're in the cash economy now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you've got to play the game."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So seeing that as a voluntary position. Well, those people who would be fish wardens, really, there's probably some pressure on them to go make money. So that was just a challenge. And just so, I would think it, you know, it probably takes 10 years if you're trying to build leadership and technical capacity at the local level. It's just almost impossible to do in two or three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, it sounds a lot like what you're doing right now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. It very much, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me more about that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.737533249753981, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Alaska. So I'm the program manager for the Alaska Region Program. And Alaska region is just that, it's the state of Alaska. And so our role is to help community led outdoor recreation and conservation projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Community led."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Community led."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Non-governmental."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. They can be governed, they can be governmentally led. But it's the key thing is, it's not the National Park Service. It's not, we're not the leaders of it. So it's very much like Peace Corps in the aspect that we're coming in, that kind of coincidentally for two years often, and working with a community group to plan, design, and construct new trails. And we haven't done too much of it, but do like watershed management plan. It's really up to the community, so they apply for our assistance. Instead of getting money, they get our time. So it's a grant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's kind of like Fiji or Peace Corps."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.486148055282201, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Community led."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Non-governmental."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. They can be governed, they can be governmentally led. But it's the key thing is, it's not the National Park Service. It's not, we're not the leaders of it. So it's very much like Peace Corps in the aspect that we're coming in, that kind of coincidentally for two years often, and working with a community group to plan, design, and construct new trails. And we haven't done too much of it, but do like watershed management plan. It's really up to the community, so they apply for our assistance. Instead of getting money, they get our time. So it's a grant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's kind of like Fiji or Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is very much so, just like Peace Corps where an organization needs to request hosting a Peace Corps volunteer. Same with the RTCA program. We get applications and then we go work with that project champion out in the community, figure out what she or he wants to do. We try to. And I think I'd be such a better Peace Corps volunteer now having this experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I have to agree with that. But, you know, it is what it is."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.538454389237285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is very much so, just like Peace Corps where an organization needs to request hosting a Peace Corps volunteer. Same with the RTCA program. We get applications and then we go work with that project champion out in the community, figure out what she or he wants to do. We try to. And I think I'd be such a better Peace Corps volunteer now having this experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I have to agree with that. But, you know, it is what it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's humbling. But I think having that Peace Corps volunteer experience has really helped shape my perspective on how to go in and work with these communities. So we're working with small rural communities in Alaska, um, different tribal communities, one out in St. Paul Island, which is one of the Pribilof Islands in the middle of the Bering Sea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So a number of, right, the kind of flexibility and adaptability and learning. Learning that local context that we all have to do as Peace Corps volunteers, are some of the key competencies to serving in this kind of community planning role."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I met some of the native Alaskans, but at least everybody speaks English, so you've got a little bit more common ground."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1538382102636495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's humbling. But I think having that Peace Corps volunteer experience has really helped shape my perspective on how to go in and work with these communities. So we're working with small rural communities in Alaska, um, different tribal communities, one out in St. Paul Island, which is one of the Pribilof Islands in the middle of the Bering Sea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So a number of, right, the kind of flexibility and adaptability and learning. Learning that local context that we all have to do as Peace Corps volunteers, are some of the key competencies to serving in this kind of community planning role."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I met some of the native Alaskans, but at least everybody speaks English, so you've got a little bit more common ground."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, sure. Although in Fiji, that was mostly the case, although they didn't operate between each other in English for the most part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because English was the national language, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.837598011404054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So a number of, right, the kind of flexibility and adaptability and learning. Learning that local context that we all have to do as Peace Corps volunteers, are some of the key competencies to serving in this kind of community planning role."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I met some of the native Alaskans, but at least everybody speaks English, so you've got a little bit more common ground."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, sure. Although in Fiji, that was mostly the case, although they didn't operate between each other in English for the most part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because English was the national language, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the villages maintain their own dialects."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.263997790448949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, sure. Although in Fiji, that was mostly the case, although they didn't operate between each other in English for the most part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because English was the national language, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the villages maintain their own dialects."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. So yeah, it was. So yes, it's different there. But in some Alaska Native communities, you know, it's helped me be able to open my eyes and see, OK, what are the structural differences if I'm working in downtown Anchorage versus if I'm working in Togiak in the Bristol Bay area?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what would be some of those differences?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.737775322721054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the villages maintain their own dialects."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. So yeah, it was. So yes, it's different there. But in some Alaska Native communities, you know, it's helped me be able to open my eyes and see, OK, what are the structural differences if I'm working in downtown Anchorage versus if I'm working in Togiak in the Bristol Bay area?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what would be some of those differences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Communication and the pace, the kind of expectations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Transportation's got to be an issue here."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.264194803023393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. So yeah, it was. So yes, it's different there. But in some Alaska Native communities, you know, it's helped me be able to open my eyes and see, OK, what are the structural differences if I'm working in downtown Anchorage versus if I'm working in Togiak in the Bristol Bay area?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what would be some of those differences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Communication and the pace, the kind of expectations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Transportation's got to be an issue here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's expensive and, I mean, some of our projects are because transportation is a challenge, so most are using four wheelers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No dog sleds?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.849105336692659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Communication and the pace, the kind of expectations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Transportation's got to be an issue here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's expensive and, I mean, some of our projects are because transportation is a challenge, so most are using four wheelers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No dog sleds?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as much, no. Snow machines have pretty much taken their place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they've gone modern too."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.4990059296585105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's expensive and, I mean, some of our projects are because transportation is a challenge, so most are using four wheelers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No dog sleds?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as much, no. Snow machines have pretty much taken their place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they've gone modern too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they have TV?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.110006588509456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as much, no. Snow machines have pretty much taken their place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they've gone modern too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they have TV?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. And I mean, certainly cell phones. I'm behind the times with some of the younger professionals I'm working with out there. They laugh at my iPhone 5."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least not a flip phone."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.7888962094549505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they have TV?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. And I mean, certainly cell phones. I'm behind the times with some of the younger professionals I'm working with out there. They laugh at my iPhone 5."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least not a flip phone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, but yeah, there are so many parallels between I feel like trying to be effective as a Peace Corps volunteer and trying to be effective in providing this technical assistance to community groups that are, you know, they have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The government officials. Yeah, interesting. So why don't we refresh on the three goals of the Peace Corps? First was to learn about another country while being there, which you pretty well explained that. The second goal is coming back here and sharing what you know about Fiji with other people. How have you done that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.543218010505501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. And I mean, certainly cell phones. I'm behind the times with some of the younger professionals I'm working with out there. They laugh at my iPhone 5."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least not a flip phone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, but yeah, there are so many parallels between I feel like trying to be effective as a Peace Corps volunteer and trying to be effective in providing this technical assistance to community groups that are, you know, they have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The government officials. Yeah, interesting. So why don't we refresh on the three goals of the Peace Corps? First was to learn about another country while being there, which you pretty well explained that. The second goal is coming back here and sharing what you know about Fiji with other people. How have you done that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, good. So part of that was kind of embedded thanks to it being part of my graduate program. So I wrote a, waxed philosophic in my professional paper for a hundred plus pages. But what was, I think, pretty telling for me. So I'll step back. So I also presented to a couple of other college classes and I was a teaching assistant, so I got to. [coughs] Excuse me, sip of water here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I was wondering too, whether you did any recruiting for the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.201503716673457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, good. So part of that was kind of embedded thanks to it being part of my graduate program. So I wrote a, waxed philosophic in my professional paper for a hundred plus pages. But what was, I think, pretty telling for me. So I'll step back. So I also presented to a couple of other college classes and I was a teaching assistant, so I got to. [coughs] Excuse me, sip of water here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I was wondering too, whether you did any recruiting for the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Informally, simply. Never in a paid position or on the university campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But I definitely have talked with several people. There's one friend of ours who is in Ecuador now. You know, she certainly came to that decision on her own, but certainly talked with her quite a bit about my experience and what was challenging and what was amazingly rewarding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So on a daily basis, how often might the thought of Fiji even come up? Or daily or how often does it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.890559685192731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Informally, simply. Never in a paid position or on the university campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But I definitely have talked with several people. There's one friend of ours who is in Ecuador now. You know, she certainly came to that decision on her own, but certainly talked with her quite a bit about my experience and what was challenging and what was amazingly rewarding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So on a daily basis, how often might the thought of Fiji even come up? Or daily or how often does it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How often? I would say it's never too far away. So it's, let's see. I got back in 2007. So it's 12 years, almost exactly 12 years, and it does not seem like that long ago. It was, I think, just such a powerful experience. So it's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a snapshot in time."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.656177427991922, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But I definitely have talked with several people. There's one friend of ours who is in Ecuador now. You know, she certainly came to that decision on her own, but certainly talked with her quite a bit about my experience and what was challenging and what was amazingly rewarding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So on a daily basis, how often might the thought of Fiji even come up? Or daily or how often does it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How often? I would say it's never too far away. So it's, let's see. I got back in 2007. So it's 12 years, almost exactly 12 years, and it does not seem like that long ago. It was, I think, just such a powerful experience. So it's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a snapshot in time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. So I think it, it really changed who I am, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what way?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.506863808879913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How often? I would say it's never too far away. So it's, let's see. I got back in 2007. So it's 12 years, almost exactly 12 years, and it does not seem like that long ago. It was, I think, just such a powerful experience. So it's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a snapshot in time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. So I think it, it really changed who I am, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think around the cultural, about taking it easy, not taking things too seriously, questioning the focus on achievement and productivity that, you know, I was certainly very driven and got good grades and, you know, successfully found jobs and all. And just to be able to step back from that and, right, not judge myself too much or others. And in, you know, I mean, especially in the current times, there's so much talk about different cultures and clashes and tensions. Experiencing the Peace Corps for me, right? Because it was hard to be, I mean, I guess it's the first time where I was mainly prejudged based on the color of my skin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And you were in the minority."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.340959787644348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. So I think it, it really changed who I am, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think around the cultural, about taking it easy, not taking things too seriously, questioning the focus on achievement and productivity that, you know, I was certainly very driven and got good grades and, you know, successfully found jobs and all. And just to be able to step back from that and, right, not judge myself too much or others. And in, you know, I mean, especially in the current times, there's so much talk about different cultures and clashes and tensions. Experiencing the Peace Corps for me, right? Because it was hard to be, I mean, I guess it's the first time where I was mainly prejudged based on the color of my skin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And you were in the minority."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was very much in the minority. And so, you know, after a hundred years of colonization and the post-colonial construct still being strong of the white guy coming in and having all the ideas and having all the money and being in a tourist area. So for those who didn't know I was there, you know, would assume I was a tourist, which makes sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or a local European."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.062913318079442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was very much in the minority. And so, you know, after a hundred years of colonization and the post-colonial construct still being strong of the white guy coming in and having all the ideas and having all the money and being in a tourist area. So for those who didn't know I was there, you know, would assume I was a tourist, which makes sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or a local European."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. An I wasn't there for too long in the scheme of things, right? Two years, it feels long to us, but it's a blink of an eye for the folks who are going to live there their whole lives. So, you know, I just think that's something that everyone needs to experience. I really think it would be valuable, because you come to an understanding of, OK, well, here's why they feel that way. Here's some ways that they're right, and there's a lot of ways where they're not right because they don't. They don't know who I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And just that colonial construct. So the expectation that, well, this guy's got lots of money and, it was tough to work through. I struggled with that because I was, you know, perhaps because I studied the culture a lot being in graduate school before going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, since you've been back, have you gotten any letters from people there or requests for aid or assistance or money or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.736570353421603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. An I wasn't there for too long in the scheme of things, right? Two years, it feels long to us, but it's a blink of an eye for the folks who are going to live there their whole lives. So, you know, I just think that's something that everyone needs to experience. I really think it would be valuable, because you come to an understanding of, OK, well, here's why they feel that way. Here's some ways that they're right, and there's a lot of ways where they're not right because they don't. They don't know who I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And just that colonial construct. So the expectation that, well, this guy's got lots of money and, it was tough to work through. I struggled with that because I was, you know, perhaps because I studied the culture a lot being in graduate school before going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, since you've been back, have you gotten any letters from people there or requests for aid or assistance or money or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a, I got a love letter. And if you can remember, you don't know anyone's name, like in general. There's a few people, but you're not often, people aren't calling you. They're not saying, hey Jack, hey Paul. And so like, I don't know who the woman is, but I did get a love letter. And then on a much sadder note, I got two messages, some emails, that two of the guys I work closest with died in their mid-forties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. These were Fijians?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.485078170468447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And just that colonial construct. So the expectation that, well, this guy's got lots of money and, it was tough to work through. I struggled with that because I was, you know, perhaps because I studied the culture a lot being in graduate school before going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, since you've been back, have you gotten any letters from people there or requests for aid or assistance or money or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a, I got a love letter. And if you can remember, you don't know anyone's name, like in general. There's a few people, but you're not often, people aren't calling you. They're not saying, hey Jack, hey Paul. And so like, I don't know who the woman is, but I did get a love letter. And then on a much sadder note, I got two messages, some emails, that two of the guys I work closest with died in their mid-forties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. These were Fijians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fijians, yeah. So the teacher that I was really close with and my Fijian side counterpart, both died. So that's been, that's, yeah, that's been tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you meet your wife?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.1071031144971837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Meet my wife? Well, that was here in Alaska."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So moved up to Alaska in 2008 as a presidential management fellow. So a federal government program as a way to recruit people finishing up a graduate degree of some sort. And I worked for the Forest Service from 2008 to 2015. And in 2010, through mutual friends, we were introduced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, late 2010, then got married in 2012."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have children?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3667939685150414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, late 2010, then got married in 2012."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have children?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have two children, age six and three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, quite a, in a sense a quick change for me. I tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's culture shock."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5186599650167127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have two children, age six and three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, quite a, in a sense a quick change for me. I tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's culture shock."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is. That is culture shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What have you taught the kids about Fiji?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6873999611296808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, quite a, in a sense a quick change for me. I tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's culture shock."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is. That is culture shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What have you taught the kids about Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do they sit on the floor and eat out of bowls?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8748888456996453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is. That is culture shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What have you taught the kids about Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do they sit on the floor and eat out of bowls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they'll definitely have no problem eating with their hands, sitting cross-legged with me on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you let them drink kava?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3146775872835126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they'll definitely have no problem eating with their hands, sitting cross-legged with me on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you let them drink kava?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even at this age?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5718639858705696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even at this age?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, sure. They're not going to drink too much of it because we'll say it's an acquired taste, I guess. And I think maybe you don't even acquire it. You just, you put up with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it tastes pretty bad."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8576266509672994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even at this age?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, sure. They're not going to drink too much of it because we'll say it's an acquired taste, I guess. And I think maybe you don't even acquire it. You just, you put up with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it tastes pretty bad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you drink a lot of it. But I taught him a little [speaks Fijian]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. That's got to be cute."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1751407232969995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, sure. They're not going to drink too much of it because we'll say it's an acquired taste, I guess. And I think maybe you don't even acquire it. You just, you put up with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it tastes pretty bad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you drink a lot of it. But I taught him a little [speaks Fijian]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. That's got to be cute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, and you can see they're sponges, their pronunciation, right? I'd love to go immerse them in it, and they'd have a great time running around with the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Think you'll ever take them to Fiji?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.527934136996666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you drink a lot of it. But I taught him a little [speaks Fijian]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. That's got to be cute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, and you can see they're sponges, their pronunciation, right? I'd love to go immerse them in it, and they'd have a great time running around with the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Think you'll ever take them to Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wouldn't that be great. Don't wait too long."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9199268188851843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, and you can see they're sponges, their pronunciation, right? I'd love to go immerse them in it, and they'd have a great time running around with the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Think you'll ever take them to Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wouldn't that be great. Don't wait too long."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's true. Just, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before they turn into teenagers. I'm sorry."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2443631320946493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wouldn't that be great. Don't wait too long."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's true. Just, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before they turn into teenagers. I'm sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If, especially if we go, my wife actually got a master's degree in New Zealand, so she's got friends in New Zealand and Australia, so we could make a big South Pacific expedition. And I would definitely love to spend some time, but I do want them to be a little older to really have a sense of the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To appreciate what they're experiencing. Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.60484792454961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's true. Just, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before they turn into teenagers. I'm sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If, especially if we go, my wife actually got a master's degree in New Zealand, so she's got friends in New Zealand and Australia, so we could make a big South Pacific expedition. And I would definitely love to spend some time, but I do want them to be a little older to really have a sense of the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To appreciate what they're experiencing. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Teenagers might just tune it out and sit there and watch TV the whole time."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0053865828329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If, especially if we go, my wife actually got a master's degree in New Zealand, so she's got friends in New Zealand and Australia, so we could make a big South Pacific expedition. And I would definitely love to spend some time, but I do want them to be a little older to really have a sense of the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To appreciate what they're experiencing. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Teenagers might just tune it out and sit there and watch TV the whole time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Or be like, this is lame, and then only appreciate it. You know, it's going to depend on the person. My older son is extremely social. I've met a lot of interesting and new people at the airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they've met Fijians?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.450429536481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Teenagers might just tune it out and sit there and watch TV the whole time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Or be like, this is lame, and then only appreciate it. You know, it's going to depend on the person. My older son is extremely social. I've met a lot of interesting and new people at the airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they've met Fijians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Just anyone. No, I don't think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a large Fijian community here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.83381059609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Or be like, this is lame, and then only appreciate it. You know, it's going to depend on the person. My older son is extremely social. I've met a lot of interesting and new people at the airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they've met Fijians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Just anyone. No, I don't think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a large Fijian community here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to my knowledge. There's a large Samoan population here and how that got started, I'm not sure, but that especially in the Anchorage area, that Samoan population is pretty substantial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I recall that a lot of the Fijians immigrated to Vancouver rather than Seattle, apparently it was easier to get into Canada."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1486784401000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Just anyone. No, I don't think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a large Fijian community here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to my knowledge. There's a large Samoan population here and how that got started, I'm not sure, but that especially in the Anchorage area, that Samoan population is pretty substantial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I recall that a lot of the Fijians immigrated to Vancouver rather than Seattle, apparently it was easier to get into Canada."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vancouver? OK. When I was in Fiji, Sacramento seemed to be the most common landing spot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe that too. I'm from Sacramento and, yeah, we've hosted a lot of immigrants."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.387420489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to my knowledge. There's a large Samoan population here and how that got started, I'm not sure, but that especially in the Anchorage area, that Samoan population is pretty substantial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I recall that a lot of the Fijians immigrated to Vancouver rather than Seattle, apparently it was easier to get into Canada."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vancouver? OK. When I was in Fiji, Sacramento seemed to be the most common landing spot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe that too. I'm from Sacramento and, yeah, we've hosted a lot of immigrants."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's most people would say, oh yes, I have a cousin in Sacramento. Yes, Sacramento, California. And so, yeah, have not. Have not met a Fijian, well, since being in Alaska."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Might be a little cold for their blood up here. Too cold for me."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.43046721000000016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vancouver? OK. When I was in Fiji, Sacramento seemed to be the most common landing spot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe that too. I'm from Sacramento and, yeah, we've hosted a lot of immigrants."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's most people would say, oh yes, I have a cousin in Sacramento. Yes, Sacramento, California. And so, yeah, have not. Have not met a Fijian, well, since being in Alaska."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Might be a little cold for their blood up here. Too cold for me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it could, but Samoa is a pretty similar climate and, you know, they managed. I think it's, I think just with that, I feel like with the communal nature of the culture and similar with someone in Tonga. Probably if a few get settled, it's more likely that more family members and broader kinship groups will come in. So, yeah, Anchorage is, doesn't seem to have been a destination yet for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, now that you mentioned it, I've met all kinds of Fijians, Fijians and Fiji Indians. A lot of them drive bus at the airport and so on. And their English is very good and they're very, very friendly people."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.47829690000000014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's most people would say, oh yes, I have a cousin in Sacramento. Yes, Sacramento, California. And so, yeah, have not. Have not met a Fijian, well, since being in Alaska."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Might be a little cold for their blood up here. Too cold for me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it could, but Samoa is a pretty similar climate and, you know, they managed. I think it's, I think just with that, I feel like with the communal nature of the culture and similar with someone in Tonga. Probably if a few get settled, it's more likely that more family members and broader kinship groups will come in. So, yeah, Anchorage is, doesn't seem to have been a destination yet for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, now that you mentioned it, I've met all kinds of Fijians, Fijians and Fiji Indians. A lot of them drive bus at the airport and so on. And their English is very good and they're very, very friendly people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They sure are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's why they call them the friendly islands."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5314410000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it could, but Samoa is a pretty similar climate and, you know, they managed. I think it's, I think just with that, I feel like with the communal nature of the culture and similar with someone in Tonga. Probably if a few get settled, it's more likely that more family members and broader kinship groups will come in. So, yeah, Anchorage is, doesn't seem to have been a destination yet for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, now that you mentioned it, I've met all kinds of Fijians, Fijians and Fiji Indians. A lot of them drive bus at the airport and so on. And their English is very good and they're very, very friendly people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They sure are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's why they call them the friendly islands."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Although I think my, because they are so friendly, friendly up front, that I felt like it was a true sign of respect and to where my language skills had gotten when they said, hmm, you're Fijian skills aren't very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really, they'd actually say that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Although I think my, because they are so friendly, friendly up front, that I felt like it was a true sign of respect and to where my language skills had gotten when they said, hmm, you're Fijian skills aren't very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really, they'd actually say that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They said it, and I felt like, wow, that was the best compliment you could give me!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Instead of [speaks Fijian], right? Oh, you're so, you're so smart. You're so smart in the Fijian language because you said bula. To where they said like, hmm, that sounds, what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember them saying one time, oh, you speak the good pidgin Fijian?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Instead of [speaks Fijian], right? Oh, you're so, you're so smart. You're so smart in the Fijian language because you said bula. To where they said like, hmm, that sounds, what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember them saying one time, oh, you speak the good pidgin Fijian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very broken."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's where you knew. That's where you knew that you had made it to level two, at least."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But that's what endeared them to us or vice versa."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very broken."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's where you knew. That's where you knew that you had made it to level two, at least."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But that's what endeared them to us or vice versa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Well, what an experience you had many years after I was there. So we talked about how you got into the Peace Corps, what you did there, and what you're doing now. Anything else you'd like to add?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's where you knew. That's where you knew that you had made it to level two, at least."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But that's what endeared them to us or vice versa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Well, what an experience you had many years after I was there. So we talked about how you got into the Peace Corps, what you did there, and what you're doing now. Anything else you'd like to add?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, it's so fun. I'm glad I had a little advance notice that I would be talking about it just because it's, as I say, it's like the language is rusty. But I do think about it a lot, and I stay in touch with a core group of volunteers on a very regular basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many volunteers are around here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, it's so fun. I'm glad I had a little advance notice that I would be talking about it just because it's, as I say, it's like the language is rusty. But I do think about it a lot, and I stay in touch with a core group of volunteers on a very regular basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many volunteers are around here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, not in this area, just via Facebook, via text messaging. So some of my cohort. There is an RPCV group here in Anchorage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That seems to be pretty active."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Well, we're going to have a Peace Corps Fiji reunion in Sacramento one day, and you're more than welcome to join us."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00130:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, not in this area, just via Facebook, via text messaging. So some of my cohort. There is an RPCV group here in Anchorage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That seems to be pretty active."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Well, we're going to have a Peace Corps Fiji reunion in Sacramento one day, and you're more than welcome to join us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would love to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, Paul, it's been very nice talking with you. Thank you, and good luck to you."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.111163915882468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To begin with, in our previous oral history you did tell us a little bit about your background in the military and how you got interested in aviation, and you indicated it was while you were with the Navy that you heard about the opportunity to get involved with NASA with the space program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you had a lot of interest in the space program beforehand? What led you to want to follow that path?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I didn't really, because I felt since I hadn't been to test pilot school, I felt that I probably wasn't qualified. Then I think as I told you in our previous interview, that then I got a message from what was then called the Bureau of Personnel, with the Navy, that said I met the Navy's criteria and would I want to apply. So, no, the answer to your question is, no, I hadn't really thought about it, for that reason."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family think about the idea of you becoming an astronaut or applying for the program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.901293239869407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you had a lot of interest in the space program beforehand? What led you to want to follow that path?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I didn't really, because I felt since I hadn't been to test pilot school, I felt that I probably wasn't qualified. Then I think as I told you in our previous interview, that then I got a message from what was then called the Bureau of Personnel, with the Navy, that said I met the Navy's criteria and would I want to apply. So, no, the answer to your question is, no, I hadn't really thought about it, for that reason."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family think about the idea of you becoming an astronaut or applying for the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my wife was supportive. My children were too small to have any comprehension of what it meant. Frankly, I didn't really have much awareness or comprehension of what it meant either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any expectations going into, once you did apply and were accepted, any expectations of what the job would be like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.89032582207712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I didn't really, because I felt since I hadn't been to test pilot school, I felt that I probably wasn't qualified. Then I think as I told you in our previous interview, that then I got a message from what was then called the Bureau of Personnel, with the Navy, that said I met the Navy's criteria and would I want to apply. So, no, the answer to your question is, no, I hadn't really thought about it, for that reason."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family think about the idea of you becoming an astronaut or applying for the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my wife was supportive. My children were too small to have any comprehension of what it meant. Frankly, I didn't really have much awareness or comprehension of what it meant either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any expectations going into, once you did apply and were accepted, any expectations of what the job would be like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I really didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just kind of learned as it went along and fell into place."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.10036202453013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my wife was supportive. My children were too small to have any comprehension of what it meant. Frankly, I didn't really have much awareness or comprehension of what it meant either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any expectations going into, once you did apply and were accepted, any expectations of what the job would be like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I really didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just kind of learned as it went along and fell into place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. It sounded like an interesting, exciting thing to be involved in. Of course, I was very thrilled and honored, frankly, to be selected finally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is quite an honor. Very few people get to have that opportunity."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.55595780503348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I really didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just kind of learned as it went along and fell into place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. It sounded like an interesting, exciting thing to be involved in. Of course, I was very thrilled and honored, frankly, to be selected finally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is quite an honor. Very few people get to have that opportunity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Especially then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You came in during the Apollo Program, as the missions were getting under way for Apollo and coming up to speed. You served—you went through the initial period of training, and actually, in our first interview you had talked about some of the aspects of the training that you went through, which included even geology training."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 27.28439756114831, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. It sounded like an interesting, exciting thing to be involved in. Of course, I was very thrilled and honored, frankly, to be selected finally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is quite an honor. Very few people get to have that opportunity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Especially then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You came in during the Apollo Program, as the missions were getting under way for Apollo and coming up to speed. You served—you went through the initial period of training, and actually, in our first interview you had talked about some of the aspects of the training that you went through, which included even geology training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think about all the different parts of—that were going into this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.093775067942566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Especially then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You came in during the Apollo Program, as the missions were getting under way for Apollo and coming up to speed. You served—you went through the initial period of training, and actually, in our first interview you had talked about some of the aspects of the training that you went through, which included even geology training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think about all the different parts of—that were going into this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was kind of surprising to me, as far as the breadth of the classroom work that we received, both in geology—of course, we had a lot of field work associated with our geology course, too. But as I mentioned before, orbital mechanics, for example, and spacecraft systems and basic systems such as Apollo software that was being developed at the time. So mainly the thing that was exciting was, we were getting ready to go fly to the Moon, we thought at the time, and that was the main incentive and the most—you know, the goal that we all had that was out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During Apollo, you were assigned to the support crew for Apollo 12."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.215305631047297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think about all the different parts of—that were going into this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was kind of surprising to me, as far as the breadth of the classroom work that we received, both in geology—of course, we had a lot of field work associated with our geology course, too. But as I mentioned before, orbital mechanics, for example, and spacecraft systems and basic systems such as Apollo software that was being developed at the time. So mainly the thing that was exciting was, we were getting ready to go fly to the Moon, we thought at the time, and that was the main incentive and the most—you know, the goal that we all had that was out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During Apollo, you were assigned to the support crew for Apollo 12."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was your first assignment to a crew related other than the general training."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 34.683672923385885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was kind of surprising to me, as far as the breadth of the classroom work that we received, both in geology—of course, we had a lot of field work associated with our geology course, too. But as I mentioned before, orbital mechanics, for example, and spacecraft systems and basic systems such as Apollo software that was being developed at the time. So mainly the thing that was exciting was, we were getting ready to go fly to the Moon, we thought at the time, and that was the main incentive and the most—you know, the goal that we all had that was out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During Apollo, you were assigned to the support crew for Apollo 12."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was your first assignment to a crew related other than the general training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You described a little bit about the duties of the support crew, but what did you specifically do for part of Apollo 12? What were some of the aspects of your involvement with that crew and their training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.99325243619247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were all in the office, everyone, if you weren't assigned to a crew. Everyone had a responsibility. For example, one time—and don't ask me how it fit in with my—I think I probably was working on ALSEP, which was the Apollo Lunar Surface Experiments Package, I think, but Apollo 11, the basic scientific equipment that Apollo 11 placed on the Moon surface. We had various technical and operational responsibilities, and those changed, because that was considered by Deke [Donald K. Slayton], who was the head of the FOD [Flight Operations Division] at the time, FCOD [Flight Crew Operations Division], whatever it was called, it was considered part of the broadening of our background experience and understanding of what went on in the system.\\n\\n But when you're assigned to a support crew, that was your total function. You were working for the primary mission commander, and whatever he decided to have you do, you went and did it to the best of your abilities. Usually satisfied Deke, but not always."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about the variety of missions and working on the different technical aspects, and you had mentioned earlier that the goal was getting to the Moon and everyone was working toward that, do you recall where you were and what you were thinking when Apollo 11 actually achieved the goal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When Neil [A. Armstrong] stepped out?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was in the viewing room at mission control. I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been quite a moment for everyone."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.7702804846583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When Neil [A. Armstrong] stepped out?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was in the viewing room at mission control. I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been quite a moment for everyone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes, especially because, as I'm sure you're aware, during the LM [Lunar Module] descent they had those alarms come up. It was Steve [Stephen G.] Bales, I think, that recognized what they were and continued the mission to land, because it was very, very close to landing when the mission was in jeopardy. And Pete [Charles Conrad, Jr.] often said Apollo 12, getting ready for 12 before 11 even launched, Pete figured that, in his estimation, he had as good a chance of being the first person on the Moon as Neil did, which came very near to being the case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. They were certainly doing something that had so many complexities to it and something that had never been done before."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.744756094064776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was in the viewing room at mission control. I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been quite a moment for everyone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes, especially because, as I'm sure you're aware, during the LM [Lunar Module] descent they had those alarms come up. It was Steve [Stephen G.] Bales, I think, that recognized what they were and continued the mission to land, because it was very, very close to landing when the mission was in jeopardy. And Pete [Charles Conrad, Jr.] often said Apollo 12, getting ready for 12 before 11 even launched, Pete figured that, in his estimation, he had as good a chance of being the first person on the Moon as Neil did, which came very near to being the case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. They were certainly doing something that had so many complexities to it and something that had never been done before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Always chances of something happening."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.265130980326884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Always chances of something happening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what John [H.] Glenn [Jr.] said. He was sitting on that thing that's cracking and hissing and making all these strange noises, built by the lowest bidder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Yes, I'm sure that's a thought that has crossed many an astronaut's mind, I'm sure."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.850145533696537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what John [H.] Glenn [Jr.] said. He was sitting on that thing that's cracking and hissing and making all these strange noises, built by the lowest bidder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Yes, I'm sure that's a thought that has crossed many an astronaut's mind, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You get confidence in it during the testing. The testing is very thorough. The crew office, anyway, has input into the test procedures and what tests are run also. So it's a little overstatement, but it sounds good to the public."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, I'm sure even just embarking on such a new and different—I mean, it's not something that's routine, it's not something that's common, so even given all the testing and you could have very strong faith that everything's going well because you did have such good testing, that there's always that reminder that people don't do this all the time."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 28.722383926329485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what John [H.] Glenn [Jr.] said. He was sitting on that thing that's cracking and hissing and making all these strange noises, built by the lowest bidder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Yes, I'm sure that's a thought that has crossed many an astronaut's mind, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You get confidence in it during the testing. The testing is very thorough. The crew office, anyway, has input into the test procedures and what tests are run also. So it's a little overstatement, but it sounds good to the public."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, I'm sure even just embarking on such a new and different—I mean, it's not something that's routine, it's not something that's common, so even given all the testing and you could have very strong faith that everything's going well because you did have such good testing, that there's always that reminder that people don't do this all the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's true. I don't remember if we talked about it before, but Apollo 12 was struck by lightning during ascent. That was a very hairy time. Fortunately, there were just enough of the basic systems, backup systems, in the spacecraft that kept it going until the crew could react and straighten things out again. You always try to be prepared to cope with something unexpected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about unexpected, the next mission was Apollo 13. You had, again, indicated in your earlier oral history that you worked a type of support for Apollo 13."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.247093251477203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You get confidence in it during the testing. The testing is very thorough. The crew office, anyway, has input into the test procedures and what tests are run also. So it's a little overstatement, but it sounds good to the public."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, I'm sure even just embarking on such a new and different—I mean, it's not something that's routine, it's not something that's common, so even given all the testing and you could have very strong faith that everything's going well because you did have such good testing, that there's always that reminder that people don't do this all the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's true. I don't remember if we talked about it before, but Apollo 12 was struck by lightning during ascent. That was a very hairy time. Fortunately, there were just enough of the basic systems, backup systems, in the spacecraft that kept it going until the crew could react and straighten things out again. You always try to be prepared to cope with something unexpected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about unexpected, the next mission was Apollo 13. You had, again, indicated in your earlier oral history that you worked a type of support for Apollo 13."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very short-lived. The Astronaut Office had a function then called “Stoney.” That was a KSC acronym. I forget what it stood for, but Stoney was the person who sat on the console at KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida] in the launch support room and gave the final countdown to the crew. Basically that's all he did. Plus, I guess, just to keep little fingers busy, he also controlled the elevators in the launch, at the pad. Well, when the crew got off the top and then the guys put them in, closed them up, then they come in, then he positioned remotely some of the elevators for emergency egress. So that was a big job prior to launch. Then, as I say, give the crew the countdown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a pretty important task."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 28.05232583497467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's true. I don't remember if we talked about it before, but Apollo 12 was struck by lightning during ascent. That was a very hairy time. Fortunately, there were just enough of the basic systems, backup systems, in the spacecraft that kept it going until the crew could react and straighten things out again. You always try to be prepared to cope with something unexpected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about unexpected, the next mission was Apollo 13. You had, again, indicated in your earlier oral history that you worked a type of support for Apollo 13."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very short-lived. The Astronaut Office had a function then called “Stoney.” That was a KSC acronym. I forget what it stood for, but Stoney was the person who sat on the console at KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida] in the launch support room and gave the final countdown to the crew. Basically that's all he did. Plus, I guess, just to keep little fingers busy, he also controlled the elevators in the launch, at the pad. Well, when the crew got off the top and then the guys put them in, closed them up, then they come in, then he positioned remotely some of the elevators for emergency egress. So that was a big job prior to launch. Then, as I say, give the crew the countdown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a pretty important task."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was okay. It was better than not doing it, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where were you, then, during Apollo 13 when the accident did happen and the crew had to then move into the lunar module?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.22509362342552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was okay. It was better than not doing it, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where were you, then, during Apollo 13 when the accident did happen and the crew had to then move into the lunar module?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we first understood what was going on, when Jack [John L. Swigert, Jr.] said, \"Houston, we have a problem,\" I don't remember where I was. I know that we assigned a team, Deke [Slayton] assigned a team within the Astronaut Office and, of course, with the flight controllers, too, to figure out what was going on.\\n\\n My function, we directed, as I remember, all the resources of the Astronaut Office except for possibly the [Apollo] 14 or 15 crew toward working this problem, then trying to decide what to do. But to make things like that work, you need to have one person in charge, and I forget who that was, although Ken [Thomas K.] Mattingly [II] did the most work and, I think, had a lot of input into the idea, for example, of using the LM lithium hydroxide canisters in order to get some of the carbon dioxide out of the air. But the rest of us were primarily go-fers. We were just springloaded to go, either call a contractor or anyone that we could, any company or organization that might help. So it really was kind of a mishmash. We were all just running around trying to get things under control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And everything did come under control eventually, and everyone came together very well to make it all—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got the crew back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. And that must have been—must have been quite a moment for everyone."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.250104026028353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we first understood what was going on, when Jack [John L. Swigert, Jr.] said, \"Houston, we have a problem,\" I don't remember where I was. I know that we assigned a team, Deke [Slayton] assigned a team within the Astronaut Office and, of course, with the flight controllers, too, to figure out what was going on.\\n\\n My function, we directed, as I remember, all the resources of the Astronaut Office except for possibly the [Apollo] 14 or 15 crew toward working this problem, then trying to decide what to do. But to make things like that work, you need to have one person in charge, and I forget who that was, although Ken [Thomas K.] Mattingly [II] did the most work and, I think, had a lot of input into the idea, for example, of using the LM lithium hydroxide canisters in order to get some of the carbon dioxide out of the air. But the rest of us were primarily go-fers. We were just springloaded to go, either call a contractor or anyone that we could, any company or organization that might help. So it really was kind of a mishmash. We were all just running around trying to get things under control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And everything did come under control eventually, and everyone came together very well to make it all—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got the crew back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. And that must have been—must have been quite a moment for everyone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Of course, the main thing was when they jettisoned the LM prior to reentry, and then the reentry started well. But everyone was still hanging on until they came out of blackout."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the Apollo Program came to a close, originally there had been more missions planned."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.23469632843006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Of course, the main thing was when they jettisoned the LM prior to reentry, and then the reentry started well. But everyone was still hanging on until they came out of blackout."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the Apollo Program came to a close, originally there had been more missions planned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Twenty."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through Apollo 20."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unfortunately, canceled. What were—what was the general thoughts and the general feelings of NASA as that was coming to a close? Of course, Skylab was already being planned and under way."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 40.26077369825562, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Twenty."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through Apollo 20."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unfortunately, canceled. What were—what was the general thoughts and the general feelings of NASA as that was coming to a close? Of course, Skylab was already being planned and under way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any final thoughts on the Apollo missions and that it had been too short or that it was enough or any general feeling like that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.73419299806179, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through Apollo 20."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unfortunately, canceled. What were—what was the general thoughts and the general feelings of NASA as that was coming to a close? Of course, Skylab was already being planned and under way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any final thoughts on the Apollo missions and that it had been too short or that it was enough or any general feeling like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a parochial point of view. We'd have liked to have seen more missions to the Moon. And at the time, Skylab, as a title and a series of missions, had not been settled on. There was a concept called the Apollo Applications Program [AAP], which included continuing building Saturn Vs and sending both manned and unmanned missions to the Moon, not necessarily to land on the Moon. The whole thing was still conceptual. But there was a big thing to map the entire Moon by putting a mapper in polar orbit around the Moon, so to get the front side, the back side, the whole thing, in preparation for, at the time, as I remember, building a lunar base to support a manned exploration of Mars. That was basically open-ended.\\n\\n Of course, the political environment at the time, canceling the Apollo lunar landings 18, 19, and 20, and AAP, Apollo Applications Program then shrunk down, and finally was called Skylab. So that's what was left. I've been asked this before in an interview by one of NASA's historians. I should have reread that before I came out here, because I wouldn't want to lie or get mixed up or anything. [Butler laughs.] But, gee, I don't remember when the transition occurred in there, but it was very gradual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all right. I'm sure we can refer back to that oral history if we need to.\\n\\n Moving into Skylab, you had mentioned in your first oral history about the wet versus dry workshop, and the discussions on that, and some of the tests that were done both at Huntsville and at Houston, using the water tanks."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 38.59354777562422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any final thoughts on the Apollo missions and that it had been too short or that it was enough or any general feeling like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a parochial point of view. We'd have liked to have seen more missions to the Moon. And at the time, Skylab, as a title and a series of missions, had not been settled on. There was a concept called the Apollo Applications Program [AAP], which included continuing building Saturn Vs and sending both manned and unmanned missions to the Moon, not necessarily to land on the Moon. The whole thing was still conceptual. But there was a big thing to map the entire Moon by putting a mapper in polar orbit around the Moon, so to get the front side, the back side, the whole thing, in preparation for, at the time, as I remember, building a lunar base to support a manned exploration of Mars. That was basically open-ended.\\n\\n Of course, the political environment at the time, canceling the Apollo lunar landings 18, 19, and 20, and AAP, Apollo Applications Program then shrunk down, and finally was called Skylab. So that's what was left. I've been asked this before in an interview by one of NASA's historians. I should have reread that before I came out here, because I wouldn't want to lie or get mixed up or anything. [Butler laughs.] But, gee, I don't remember when the transition occurred in there, but it was very gradual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all right. I'm sure we can refer back to that oral history if we need to.\\n\\n Moving into Skylab, you had mentioned in your first oral history about the wet versus dry workshop, and the discussions on that, and some of the tests that were done both at Huntsville and at Houston, using the water tanks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us more about what those tests entailed and what they were looking at?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 39.54804280892563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you kidding? I'm sure it did. I mean, those guys in mission control are very busy. They come on for eight hours. They want to get something done while they're there, rather than just sit around. So, yes. But I overstated a little bit there. Yes, everyone had the accomplishment of the mission primarily, and if they could evaluate, which for some of the experiments you could, and also if the crew would call down and say, \"This didn't seem to work right,\" or, \"We think there's a better way even yet.\" I was primarily responsible for the EREP procedures development, and I found out a lot of things in orbit that I didn't like about that. So we could change some of them. After we bounced it off the ground and they looked at it and evaluated, either desktop or in a trainer, make changes or modifications, you'd either go to procedures, a time line, or perhaps to a setting on the equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think you mentioned in the earlier oral history that one of the reasons you found things different is just the difference in working in microgravity versus working on Earth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in many cases that was so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the way you do things. In Dr. Kerwin's oral history, he mentioned that you were also responsible—you were the systems expert for the flight as well. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the workshop, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did those duties entail? I think you mentioned the docking adapter that you were involved with a little bit, the airlock. What other things fell into those areas of responsibilities?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 42.83115867658403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in many cases that was so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the way you do things. In Dr. Kerwin's oral history, he mentioned that you were also responsible—you were the systems expert for the flight as well. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the workshop, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did those duties entail? I think you mentioned the docking adapter that you were involved with a little bit, the airlock. What other things fell into those areas of responsibilities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gee whiz. I'd forgotten about the systems stuff, but, yes. And of course, we had the environmental control system, the electrical system, and not much hydraulics. But it was a relatively complicated control panel, because we wanted as much flexibility and adaptability as we could get into it. So I mentioned before Jack Lousma and I, and that was part, even though it controlled systems in a workshop, that was part of the airlock module, so we were involved in the layout, for example, of the control panel and which functions were capable of being crew-enabled or not, you know, crew-activated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that some of those duties changed a bit after the launch and when you had to then reevaluate how the whole activation was going to go."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.457379312547474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gee, I don't know. I think you're probably asking the wrong person. I think the main thing was just development of—we shipped some TV photos back, of mainly the flyaround, so the ground had to then dress them up a little bit so they could really understand what was going on. I think basically it just took that long for an appreciation of what the situation was and for, again, the backup crew to get in the water tank and develop procedure, given the tools we had on board, and how do you do an EVA on the side. First off, the question is, can we do an EVA? Okay. The answer is yes. Well, should we do an EVA? And you go through that whole logic process.\\n\\n Then they also shipped up the procedures, as they understand them, a couple three days before they were planning on doing the EVA, and we kind of walked through them in the workshop. We didn't actually suit up, but as far as getting equipment out and talking about taking it up into the airlock, making sure we could get those tree trimmer's tools back outside through the airlock hatch this time and, I think, the whole process until it was agreed by both mission control and Pete that it was time to go do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So this second EVA, then, hadn't been tested on the ground before you guys came up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that certainly would be a good reason to take time and make sure it's all going to be safe and have a good chance of succeeding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. You had mentioned on your EVA, this was a chance that hadn't been planned for in the initial schedule for the mission. You weren't scheduled to do an EVA. Did you have a chance to enjoy the opportunity, even though you were trying to save the station at the time? But—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 31.622361301720183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you know, there wasn't any, except for the medical stuff, the bicycle ergometer, there wasn't anything else I remember, and the ATM, those are the only things that were done every day, as I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you had enough variety to keep things always interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, but it's no different from here on Earth. I mean, you don't do the same thing in your house every day. You do different things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you mentioned in the first oral history that you had plenty of time in your free time to look out the window and enjoy the view."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After the EVA, primarily, because we got more accustomed—you know, there was three or four days and we were getting ready to do the EVA, and that was on day fourteen. Now, we'd spent two or three days getting into the workshop and letting things cool down, assessing the effects of the temperature. We had some hand cream on board, for example. At 140 degrees, most of those tubes of hand cream had basically exploded. Of course, they were in a container, fortunately, but they had popped open because of the temperature.\\n\\n What was your last question? I was visualizing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were building up to working—being able to look out the window."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.279014329706115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there lessons learned from—well, you sort of mentioned one here with the time, how you ended up having extra time at the end and how the second crew asked for extra duties and then the third crew kind of got overwhelmed. That's obviously one lesson learned. But other things as well that might be applied from Skylab to the International Space Station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were things that should have been applied, but haven't been necessarily, just basically certainly the hiatus between ATSP [Apollo Soyuz Test Project] and the beginning, the actual launch of the Shuttle mission and everybody's focused on the first four flights. What did they call those? They had a special name for the first four flights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean for that phase of it. We tended to forget. As we went into [Space Station]\\n\\n Freedom\\n\\n , post flight, during the flight people were taking a lot of notes, recording a lot of information and data, both anecdotal and hard data, and coming up with, I think it was about a twenty-volume—by volume, I mean document that thick, three-eighths of an inch or so, and it was entitled\\n\\n Skylab Lessons Learned\\n\\n . I think there were twenty of those publications.\\n\\n But you could go through them now and find out a lot of things that we're probably going to find on\\n\\n Freedom\\n\\n that weren't applied, and that's just because you get a new crew in. By \"crew,\" I mean everybody who's working on Shuttle and\\n\\n Freedom\\n\\n . Of course,\\n\\n Freedom\\n\\n has been through so many different groups of people and managers and configurations and what have you, it's easy to lose sight of those old lessons. Frankly, everybody thinks they have a better way of doing things anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you have imagined that it would be so much time between Apollo and Skylab and then on to Shuttle and Space Station?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.2990594371826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There really wasn't that much time between Apollo 17 and Skylab; 17 launched in December of '71."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "'72."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was it '72? And then we launched the workshop in May of '73. So, see, from Apollo to Skylab to ASTP wasn't that much. But then after ASTP, when nobody really knew what we were going to do next, AAP was fading at the time, Skylab was kind of hanging on like Space Station has for the last lots of years, and that's when I remember Cocoa Beach [Florida] really was almost a ghost town. I mean, there were businesses, banks, and restaurants and condos that were boarded up, basically, in the last seventies until we really started getting some hardware, some equipment to test at the Cape.\\n\\n So that was a long time. A lot of people left the Astronaut Office, a lot of people left JSC, time to move on because they were just the type of people who wanted to be associated with a program or an undertaking that they thought was challenging. So a lot of people left. Lots of people left the Astronaut Office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any final thoughts on Skylab or anything you'd like to say that we didn't cover last—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was worth doing. It's unfortunate that they couldn't find a way, a practical way, to keep it in orbit for longer, or that we used a fully functional—didn't use—and I understand the budget considerations, but from a personal point of view, it'd have been nicer to have the backup workshop, which was ready for flight in all respects, in orbit rather than at the Smithsonian. It gives people an appreciation and understanding when they go through that display at the Smithsonian of what that aspect of space flight—now with\\n\\n Freedom\\n\\n in orbit, it gives them perhaps a little better appreciation of what's going on. So, yes, those two things primarily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If we could pause here for a minute and take a quick break."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.381554860719255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was worth doing. It's unfortunate that they couldn't find a way, a practical way, to keep it in orbit for longer, or that we used a fully functional—didn't use—and I understand the budget considerations, but from a personal point of view, it'd have been nicer to have the backup workshop, which was ready for flight in all respects, in orbit rather than at the Smithsonian. It gives people an appreciation and understanding when they go through that display at the Smithsonian of what that aspect of space flight—now with\\n\\n Freedom\\n\\n in orbit, it gives them perhaps a little better appreciation of what's going on. So, yes, those two things primarily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If we could pause here for a minute and take a quick break."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Suits me. [Tape change.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking—we came to the end of Skylab and, as we talked about, there was quite a break between Skylab and Shuttle—actually, between ASTP and Shuttle and a lot of changeout of people leaving NASA for various reasons, and a lot of changes just going on within NASA trying to get geared up for Space Shuttle, which was such a different program, such a different vehicle. What were some of your thoughts on the Shuttle itself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are we ever going to get STS-1 off the ground, basically, because we went through the same thing in Skylab. One time for Skylab we scheduled a launch and we were losing time. I mean, because a month would go by and we were more than a month behind schedule. Of course, it goes up in peaks and it drops off. But it seemed to take half of forever to get STS-1 ready to go. I don't remember now, you can't pin that on any one thing. The new programs, new development, a lot of things had to come together, the SRB [solid rocket boosters], the external tank, the main engines, the Shuttle, the whole thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this time you were working in the Astronaut Office."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.535060956354727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Suits me. [Tape change.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking—we came to the end of Skylab and, as we talked about, there was quite a break between Skylab and Shuttle—actually, between ASTP and Shuttle and a lot of changeout of people leaving NASA for various reasons, and a lot of changes just going on within NASA trying to get geared up for Space Shuttle, which was such a different program, such a different vehicle. What were some of your thoughts on the Shuttle itself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are we ever going to get STS-1 off the ground, basically, because we went through the same thing in Skylab. One time for Skylab we scheduled a launch and we were losing time. I mean, because a month would go by and we were more than a month behind schedule. Of course, it goes up in peaks and it drops off. But it seemed to take half of forever to get STS-1 ready to go. I don't remember now, you can't pin that on any one thing. The new programs, new development, a lot of things had to come together, the SRB [solid rocket boosters], the external tank, the main engines, the Shuttle, the whole thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this time you were working in the Astronaut Office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned in your earlier oral history that part of the jobs there were training for the astronauts, part of your duties. What did that training entail, since this was such a different vehicle and since there were things still being developed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.178057132812963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with the ALT test, the [Shuttle] Approach and Landing [Tests]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I had nothing to do with ALT. I had forgotten all about ALT, as a matter of fact. Deke [Slayton] was in charge of that. Of course, we had the—I guess there were just two crews that flew the ALT missions. It was [Joe H.] Engle and [Richard H.] Truly and [Fred W.] Haise and [Gordon] Fullerton, as I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe that's correct."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. That took up a lot of that time prior to the launch of STS-1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been good to see STS-1 finally come to fly."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.19784125868107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I had nothing to do with ALT. I had forgotten all about ALT, as a matter of fact. Deke [Slayton] was in charge of that. Of course, we had the—I guess there were just two crews that flew the ALT missions. It was [Joe H.] Engle and [Richard H.] Truly and [Fred W.] Haise and [Gordon] Fullerton, as I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe that's correct."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. That took up a lot of that time prior to the launch of STS-1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been good to see STS-1 finally come to fly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And go pretty well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.442045842978967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. That took up a lot of that time prior to the launch of STS-1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been good to see STS-1 finally come to fly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And go pretty well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, there was—on the launch there was some question on the tiles that had come off, that they noticed when they turned the cameras on, but everything did go very well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 24.93560649219885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And go pretty well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, there was—on the launch there was some question on the tiles that had come off, that they noticed when they turned the cameras on, but everything did go very well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess we don't drop tiles on launch anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't seem to. I think a variety of things still happen on launches that aren't expected, but tiles seem to be pretty good now, but the tiles, of course, had been one of the big issues leading in."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.039562769109832, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, there was—on the launch there was some question on the tiles that had come off, that they noticed when they turned the cameras on, but everything did go very well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess we don't drop tiles on launch anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't seem to. I think a variety of things still happen on launches that aren't expected, but tiles seem to be pretty good now, but the tiles, of course, had been one of the big issues leading in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was. As a matter of fact—the center directors kind of run together, too. I don't remember who it was, but JSC basically had a team at the Cape \"helping,\" in quotes, our friends at the Cape get on with both the procedures and the materials before attaching tiles. Kenny [Kenneth S.] Kleinknecht, from JSC, and FOD [Flight Operations Directorate] or Flight Crew Operations [Directorate, FCOD], whatever we were called, you know, we went through that period, too, when mission operations and flight crew operations were combined again, called flight operations. Anyway, from the Astronaut Office, Bob [Robert F.] Overmeyer went to the Cape as Kenny's deputy, as I remember, to work on the problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly was a very different aspect, a completely different way of doing things again for Shuttle."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 23.37729196567759, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess we don't drop tiles on launch anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't seem to. I think a variety of things still happen on launches that aren't expected, but tiles seem to be pretty good now, but the tiles, of course, had been one of the big issues leading in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was. As a matter of fact—the center directors kind of run together, too. I don't remember who it was, but JSC basically had a team at the Cape \"helping,\" in quotes, our friends at the Cape get on with both the procedures and the materials before attaching tiles. Kenny [Kenneth S.] Kleinknecht, from JSC, and FOD [Flight Operations Directorate] or Flight Crew Operations [Directorate, FCOD], whatever we were called, you know, we went through that period, too, when mission operations and flight crew operations were combined again, called flight operations. Anyway, from the Astronaut Office, Bob [Robert F.] Overmeyer went to the Cape as Kenny's deputy, as I remember, to work on the problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly was a very different aspect, a completely different way of doing things again for Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this time frame and as Shuttle was coming on board, somewhere along the way the decision was made to have payload specialists as part of the crew. Do you recall any of the discussions surrounding that and how that came about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.36334563782212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me back up and clarify my comment on John. John deserved a flight. I didn't mean to put that down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just that in the sense in which I described it, he wasn't really a payload specialist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he wasn't a mission specialist either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He certainly falls into a unique category, I think."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.18149515313569, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just that in the sense in which I described it, he wasn't really a payload specialist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he wasn't a mission specialist either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He certainly falls into a unique category, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yes. So, no, I think it's evolved into a workable and appropriate arrangement as to what we have. Perhaps the commander, the guy in the left front seat, has from that basic approach that I described to you, the commander has more involvement in the conduct of the mission itself than was conceived with the mission specialist-commander approach. So therefore we don't fly those people as often. We don't fly them every three to six months. It's probably good from a certain point of view. It's nice to have—let's just say you took that approach and you only had six crews, front-seaters of commander, pilot, and MS-1. Well, then you may have, for whatever reason, a new system, a new method of operation, whatever, that you really want. Let's say it pertains to one of the abort modes. Well, you need some experienced folks to get involved in an evaluation of a proposed change to an abort mode, whether it's hardware, software procedures, or what have you. So it's nice to have extra crews around those guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you anticipate—and this is just conjecture or opinion on your part, but as Space Station gets up and running and they are making more regular trips with the specific idea of going to station, do you think it might progress back to that, having the key flight crews on a more rapid circulation like the three to six months, or do you think it will stay kind of the way it's gone?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 38.65774369428764, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. That's totally up to the center, to JSC, as to what approach they take to that. You really could do that if you know you're going to do an EVA as part of a crew delivery or crew retrieval, crew delivery/crew retrieval mission, and a commander really has to be involved in that. I mean, you could do it if you wanted to, but I don't know if the system will go that way. My guess is, it won't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it'll all be based on the process of learning and seeing what fits and what's needed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because the way we're doing it now works, so why change it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If it's not broke, don't fix it, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it does seem to work pretty well now.\\n\\n Moving into—toward your mission on Shuttle, you talked about the first crews being assigned somewhere during the process of building up to STS-1 launch. When—approximately at what time did you start fully training as your crew for your mission and what did that entail?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 36.28638188254182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because the way we're doing it now works, so why change it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If it's not broke, don't fix it, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it does seem to work pretty well now.\\n\\n Moving into—toward your mission on Shuttle, you talked about the first crews being assigned somewhere during the process of building up to STS-1 launch. When—approximately at what time did you start fully training as your crew for your mission and what did that entail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't remember the time frame. STS-1 launched in '81, but it was originally scheduled around '78 or '79, so we were probably assigned a crew without being anointed as a crew. We were a group of people, myself and Bo [Karol J. Bobko] and Story [Musgrave] and Don [Donald H. Peterson], that were put together [for STS-6] and were told basically to start working together as a group, for whatever reason.\\n\\n Ask me the question again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your training entail as you did get into it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.321216740300002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, for whatever reason, that's the thought that's left with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's certainly—you certainly had been very involved with it, so it does make sense that it would be—it's just part of your life and part of your career and your day.\\n\\n The mission did go very well and did get to launch the TDRS. Of course, it later had some problems."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which weren't our doing, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Absolutely. Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ground did a tremendous job on getting that TDRS up into orbit. They had a main propulsion system failure. But they worked it out.\\n\\n Yes, we did the EVA and the EVA was successful. We learned some things on that. Don and Story did a good job evaluating that. Then we had daytime entry, so we didn't get to see all the sights, the ion wake that folks were later able to see through their top window.\\n\\n We landed on the concrete at Edwards because the lakebeds were wet. Had a lot of rain in California that winter, so I'd almost liken it to there was so much water in the lakebed that landing on the runway was almost like a carrier landing because we were making the approach and flying in over water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that certainly is slightly different than—\\n\\n How did it all compare to your Skylab flight? Did you find yourself at any points comparing things as you went along?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 18.134685267000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which weren't our doing, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Absolutely. Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ground did a tremendous job on getting that TDRS up into orbit. They had a main propulsion system failure. But they worked it out.\\n\\n Yes, we did the EVA and the EVA was successful. We learned some things on that. Don and Story did a good job evaluating that. Then we had daytime entry, so we didn't get to see all the sights, the ion wake that folks were later able to see through their top window.\\n\\n We landed on the concrete at Edwards because the lakebeds were wet. Had a lot of rain in California that winter, so I'd almost liken it to there was so much water in the lakebed that landing on the runway was almost like a carrier landing because we were making the approach and flying in over water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that certainly is slightly different than—\\n\\n How did it all compare to your Skylab flight? Did you find yourself at any points comparing things as you went along?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I mean, they were different enough. I was in a different position. It really was an evaluation flight, pretty much a test flight, obviously not the first one, but, nevertheless, it still was, and we flew the first flight on\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , so it was a vehicle shakedown flight also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After your mission, you came back and worked again in the Astronaut Office for a little while, but then moved up into the Center Director's Office as deputy center director."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.48298363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ground did a tremendous job on getting that TDRS up into orbit. They had a main propulsion system failure. But they worked it out.\\n\\n Yes, we did the EVA and the EVA was successful. We learned some things on that. Don and Story did a good job evaluating that. Then we had daytime entry, so we didn't get to see all the sights, the ion wake that folks were later able to see through their top window.\\n\\n We landed on the concrete at Edwards because the lakebeds were wet. Had a lot of rain in California that winter, so I'd almost liken it to there was so much water in the lakebed that landing on the runway was almost like a carrier landing because we were making the approach and flying in over water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that certainly is slightly different than—\\n\\n How did it all compare to your Skylab flight? Did you find yourself at any points comparing things as you went along?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I mean, they were different enough. I was in a different position. It really was an evaluation flight, pretty much a test flight, obviously not the first one, but, nevertheless, it still was, and we flew the first flight on\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , so it was a vehicle shakedown flight also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After your mission, you came back and worked again in the Astronaut Office for a little while, but then moved up into the Center Director's Office as deputy center director."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. This was after the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident. I was John's [W. Young] deputy chief of the Astronaut Office. Then there were significant changes made in upper management, especially within Code M. I'm trying to remember what the title was, Code M's title. Manned space flight whatever. And at that time, then, I was offered the opportunity to move into upper management, as I said, as Aaron Cohen's deputy. That would have been '86, late '86."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, did that give you some opportunities to be involved in the recovery process from\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n ?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.7588707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I mean, they were different enough. I was in a different position. It really was an evaluation flight, pretty much a test flight, obviously not the first one, but, nevertheless, it still was, and we flew the first flight on\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , so it was a vehicle shakedown flight also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After your mission, you came back and worked again in the Astronaut Office for a little while, but then moved up into the Center Director's Office as deputy center director."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. This was after the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident. I was John's [W. Young] deputy chief of the Astronaut Office. Then there were significant changes made in upper management, especially within Code M. I'm trying to remember what the title was, Code M's title. Manned space flight whatever. And at that time, then, I was offered the opportunity to move into upper management, as I said, as Aaron Cohen's deputy. That would have been '86, late '86."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, did that give you some opportunities to be involved in the recovery process from\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n ?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I hesitate to call it \"an opportunity,\" but, yes, I was involved in that, but again from an upper-management point of view, the main thrust on that with engineering flight crew and the missions operations folks. I was not involved directly—well, several of us were called to testify before the Rogers Commission. Bob [Robert L.] Crippen was. I remember John, of course, since he was chief of the Astronaut Office, and I was his deputy, so that's why I was called. There were a couple of other folks, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That certainly was a hard time for everyone, for NASA. You told us a little bit about that in your earlier oral history."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00594:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.176523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. This was after the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident. I was John's [W. Young] deputy chief of the Astronaut Office. Then there were significant changes made in upper management, especially within Code M. I'm trying to remember what the title was, Code M's title. Manned space flight whatever. And at that time, then, I was offered the opportunity to move into upper management, as I said, as Aaron Cohen's deputy. That would have been '86, late '86."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, did that give you some opportunities to be involved in the recovery process from\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n ?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I hesitate to call it \"an opportunity,\" but, yes, I was involved in that, but again from an upper-management point of view, the main thrust on that with engineering flight crew and the missions operations folks. I was not involved directly—well, several of us were called to testify before the Rogers Commission. Bob [Robert L.] Crippen was. I remember John, of course, since he was chief of the Astronaut Office, and I was his deputy, so that's why I was called. There were a couple of other folks, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That certainly was a hard time for everyone, for NASA. You told us a little bit about that in your earlier oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it did take time to bring everything back together. What were some of the changes that—obviously some were made to the vehicle itself, but some of the general changes either around the center or in the way of doing things that you recall being involved with or—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00500:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.697000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's good once in a while to look at the legislation that was passed by the Senate. You had Lyndon Johnson and you had John McCormick in the House. It's a wonderful piece of legislation, really. It states quite clearly that [there are] going to [be] two programs: you're going to have one for the peaceful uses of space and one for national security. Once you make the decision that you're going to have this civilian open program, then…the two programs have to be very closely coordinated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that how the lunar landing mission was undertaken as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every project practically that NASA had, including the lunar landing—maybe that's a little strong. But I was going to say, had to involve, to some extent, an interaction between the two organizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that it was widely discussed to join the military and NASA activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was wide[ly discussed], because it had to be. I don't see how it could have been done any other way. It would have been foolhardy to try to have a program that would [have been completely separate]—although some people were bothered by the fact that some of the astronauts were military. Some people felt that they should resign their commissions. Something as stupid as that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to go back a little bit when you were talking about President Kennedy's decision to actually go to the moon and you received part of his speech to Congress. What happened to NASA after that? Was there a buzz within NASA? How did people within the organization feel once they realized, \"Oh, wow, we're going to go to the moon\"? From what I understand, there was a mixed reaction of shock and surprise, but it seemed as if, at least, within NASA headquarters, it was pretty widely known that this was going to happen."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00500:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 26.330000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every project practically that NASA had, including the lunar landing—maybe that's a little strong. But I was going to say, had to involve, to some extent, an interaction between the two organizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that it was widely discussed to join the military and NASA activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was wide[ly discussed], because it had to be. I don't see how it could have been done any other way. It would have been foolhardy to try to have a program that would [have been completely separate]—although some people were bothered by the fact that some of the astronauts were military. Some people felt that they should resign their commissions. Something as stupid as that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to go back a little bit when you were talking about President Kennedy's decision to actually go to the moon and you received part of his speech to Congress. What happened to NASA after that? Was there a buzz within NASA? How did people within the organization feel once they realized, \"Oh, wow, we're going to go to the moon\"? From what I understand, there was a mixed reaction of shock and surprise, but it seemed as if, at least, within NASA headquarters, it was pretty widely known that this was going to happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 25.632781177469273, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then got the thing in the mail, it said Fiji. And I said, great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you quit your job and hopped on a plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quit my job. I hopped on a plane and off to Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And by this time, all the training was overseas, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in country, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk a little bit about the training. How did you meet the people here or are you virtually flew by yourself or did the whole group fly together?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.925312419410304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quit my job. I hopped on a plane and off to Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And by this time, all the training was overseas, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in country, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk a little bit about the training. How did you meet the people here or are you virtually flew by yourself or did the whole group fly together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had our staging at that time was five days in San Francisco, so started meeting people at the airport. Because when you look at the baggage claim and you see people with these big duffel bags and things. Like, OK, I think I know where you're headed. So it didn't take long for us to find all each other. And of course, we were all together for five days in San Francisco, and then we flew all together to Fiji. And so the training was all in country. Fiji has two main cultures, the Fijian culture and the Indian culture. There were a lot of Indians in Fiji because they originally came as indentured laborers in the sugarcane plantations, and then they stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when was that, when did they come?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.139236021567005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in country, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk a little bit about the training. How did you meet the people here or are you virtually flew by yourself or did the whole group fly together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had our staging at that time was five days in San Francisco, so started meeting people at the airport. Because when you look at the baggage claim and you see people with these big duffel bags and things. Like, OK, I think I know where you're headed. So it didn't take long for us to find all each other. And of course, we were all together for five days in San Francisco, and then we flew all together to Fiji. And so the training was all in country. Fiji has two main cultures, the Fijian culture and the Indian culture. There were a lot of Indians in Fiji because they originally came as indentured laborers in the sugarcane plantations, and then they stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when was that, when did they come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they came in the 1850s, 1860s. So they'd been there for generations, most of them. And so we had part of our training was in, the cultural language training was in a Fijian village and then part of it was in an Indian settlement. So we had about two weeks in each of those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Indian settlement. You used settlement and village. What's the difference?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.38688617827618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Temporary. It kind of. Right after I left Fiji was the first coup and the coup was because of the Indian-Fijian tension actually. Mostly, well, mostly the military felt that the Indians were taking over Fiji and they just had elections and the Fijian was prime minister. But he pointed an Indian deputy, half the government was Indian, which reflected the population, but that made the military a little nervous. And so they staged a coup and overthrew the government. And so this was all right after I left. But you could sense some of the tension. You know, the Indians were, I'm vastly stereotyping here, but you know, a lot of them did run the businesses.\n\nI mean, even in my community, which was actually it was a farming community of about two hundred farms about an hour and a half or two hours by bus from the capital. And it had been established since the 1960s. And about, I'd say, about 85 percent of the population was Fijian, about 10 percent was Indian, and about five percent was Rotuman, which is, Rotuma is another Polynesian culture. I think it's Polynesian. Yeah. Fijians. Fiji is Melanesian, but Rotundo is more of Polynesian culture, and the island is way north of Fiji, but geographically it's way far away. Politically, it somehow got lumped into Fiji. So but in our community, as I mentioned, you know, 85, about 85 percent Fijian. The shop was run by the Indian family, and so and that was in a lot of places. The economy was run probably more by Indians than the Fijians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very much the case in Uganda."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very similar to a lot of other places."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, yep. Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I diverted you. So you were."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.985429086973534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very similar to a lot of other places."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, yep. Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I diverted you. So you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So training, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in training."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.317143429970594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, yep. Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I diverted you. So you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So training, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was in training. So two weeks in a Fijian, living with a Fijian family in the village, learning the culture and a little bit of the language. And then shifting gears and doing two weeks with an Indian family, again learning the culture and the language, which is kind of a Fiji version of Hindi. And then off to summer school. We essentially taught summer school for six weeks. So and that was our technical training. And for a lot of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was in the capital?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.79682603330066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So training, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was in training. So two weeks in a Fijian, living with a Fijian family in the village, learning the culture and a little bit of the language. And then shifting gears and doing two weeks with an Indian family, again learning the culture and the language, which is kind of a Fiji version of Hindi. And then off to summer school. We essentially taught summer school for six weeks. So and that was our technical training. And for a lot of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was in the capital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just outside the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what is the capital?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.69978522629711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just outside the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what is the capital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Capital is Suva."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Suva."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the town next to Suva is Nausori and there's a teachers college there, and there's also high school there. So we were at Nausori Teachers College for about six weeks where we did our technical training. And since a lot of us had never taught before, they taught us to teach and they taught us how to teach in Fiji. So, you know, learning about the education system and how to teach in Fiji, and then put it to use in our crash course in teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you teach in high school or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.221983584774566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Capital is Suva."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Suva."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the town next to Suva is Nausori and there's a teachers college there, and there's also high school there. So we were at Nausori Teachers College for about six weeks where we did our technical training. And since a lot of us had never taught before, they taught us to teach and they taught us how to teach in Fiji. So, you know, learning about the education system and how to teach in Fiji, and then put it to use in our crash course in teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you teach in high school or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "High school. Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had your training and then where were you stationed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.558004425647613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "High school. Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had your training and then where were you stationed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was stationed in a place called Lomaivuna. That's L-O- M-A-I-V-U-N-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I see you're writing it down there. As I mentioned, it's about an hour and a half, two hour bus ride out of the capital on a good day. And the school had just gone from being a junior secondary school to a full secondary school, so had just added form six, which is the equivalent of the 12th grade. And so I was brought out there to teach physics and mathematics in form six and physical science in form five. So, the high school level.\n\nJust before we finished our training, one of the worst cyclones to hit Fiji in years hit and we were in a direct hit and that was the night before our swearing in. And so they actually canceled our swearing in party and just came to us at the staging site, our training site, and swore us in there, and then Peace Corps staff all left. And most of us had to continue staying there because there was another cyclone coming the next day. And another one coming two days after that. The third one actually changed course and didn't hit Fiji, but the two were back to back and the worst ones they'd seen in a long time. So we were stuck at the training site on our own for a few days before we could get to our site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not extensive damage?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.286671584052903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was stationed in a place called Lomaivuna. That's L-O- M-A-I-V-U-N-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I see you're writing it down there. As I mentioned, it's about an hour and a half, two hour bus ride out of the capital on a good day. And the school had just gone from being a junior secondary school to a full secondary school, so had just added form six, which is the equivalent of the 12th grade. And so I was brought out there to teach physics and mathematics in form six and physical science in form five. So, the high school level.\n\nJust before we finished our training, one of the worst cyclones to hit Fiji in years hit and we were in a direct hit and that was the night before our swearing in. And so they actually canceled our swearing in party and just came to us at the staging site, our training site, and swore us in there, and then Peace Corps staff all left. And most of us had to continue staying there because there was another cyclone coming the next day. And another one coming two days after that. The third one actually changed course and didn't hit Fiji, but the two were back to back and the worst ones they'd seen in a long time. So we were stuck at the training site on our own for a few days before we could get to our site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not extensive damage?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there was a lot of damage. Yeah, yeah. Part of the reason I couldn't get to my site. I actually literally couldn't get to my site because there were two bridges that the bus had to go over to get to my site. And any rain basically, the bridges were flooded and you couldn't get past. So it took, it was about five days I think before we could get."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a cyclone is basically a hurricane."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.09630176005878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I see you're writing it down there. As I mentioned, it's about an hour and a half, two hour bus ride out of the capital on a good day. And the school had just gone from being a junior secondary school to a full secondary school, so had just added form six, which is the equivalent of the 12th grade. And so I was brought out there to teach physics and mathematics in form six and physical science in form five. So, the high school level.\n\nJust before we finished our training, one of the worst cyclones to hit Fiji in years hit and we were in a direct hit and that was the night before our swearing in. And so they actually canceled our swearing in party and just came to us at the staging site, our training site, and swore us in there, and then Peace Corps staff all left. And most of us had to continue staying there because there was another cyclone coming the next day. And another one coming two days after that. The third one actually changed course and didn't hit Fiji, but the two were back to back and the worst ones they'd seen in a long time. So we were stuck at the training site on our own for a few days before we could get to our site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not extensive damage?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there was a lot of damage. Yeah, yeah. Part of the reason I couldn't get to my site. I actually literally couldn't get to my site because there were two bridges that the bus had to go over to get to my site. And any rain basically, the bridges were flooded and you couldn't get past. So it took, it was about five days I think before we could get."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a cyclone is basically a hurricane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a hurricane. Yeah, they call it a tropical. Yeah, it's called a tropical cyclone there, but it's a hurricane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Same. Same wind, same water?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.995890844509756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there was a lot of damage. Yeah, yeah. Part of the reason I couldn't get to my site. I actually literally couldn't get to my site because there were two bridges that the bus had to go over to get to my site. And any rain basically, the bridges were flooded and you couldn't get past. So it took, it was about five days I think before we could get."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a cyclone is basically a hurricane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a hurricane. Yeah, they call it a tropical. Yeah, it's called a tropical cyclone there, but it's a hurricane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Same. Same wind, same water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Same wind, same rain, same damage. Same. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.995434271677507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a hurricane. Yeah, they call it a tropical. Yeah, it's called a tropical cyclone there, but it's a hurricane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Same. Same wind, same water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Same wind, same rain, same damage. Same. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it goes the opposite direction, though, because it's a southern hemisphere, so it spins the opposite direction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when you're in the middle of it, it probably doesn't matter."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.34004231071297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it goes the opposite direction, though, because it's a southern hemisphere, so it spins the opposite direction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when you're in the middle of it, it probably doesn't matter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. No. And we actually literally did. The eye came right overhead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So eventually you got."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.711158123014412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. No. And we actually literally did. The eye came right overhead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So eventually you got."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eventually got out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then talk a little bit about the town you were in."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.23462013668268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So eventually you got."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eventually got out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then talk a little bit about the town you were in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't a town, so this was unusual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you were in a village?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.252617452694665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't a town, so this was unusual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you were in a village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't a village either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is what was so unusual about it, because it wasn't that set community that you have in a village or in a settlement. It was a farming community with two hundred farms divided into nine sectors and in the middle of it there was an agricultural station. And then about a kilometer away was the school. And there were actually a couple of Peace Corps volunteers right by the agricultural station. They were working in fisheries, and I knew them, certainly knew them well, and we visited every once in a while. But we didn't cross paths otherwise while we were working, because they were off in different villages around the area and I was basically at the school. So the school had, uh, there was a primary school and then there was a secondary school right next to it. And then the housing, most of the teachers lived right at the school. So I had a house right in the school compound.\n\nAnd probably about, I don't know, maybe 300 students, 200 to 300 students, 250, 300 students, something like that, in the high school. I had two streams, as they called it, of physical science in form five, so 11th grade, and each one had about 30, 35 students. And then, in the sixth form, 12th grade, I did, I taught both their physics and math and there was just one class and it was 24 students in that class. I'm trying to remember if it was different. Now I'm trying to remember if it was different first year and second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That doesn't seem so large."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.766279084629168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It isn't, no. Because the school had just added that form six. And the way Fiji, the education system worked in Fiji at the time is a lot of it was actually based on the New Zealand system. So they had exams they took at the end of form four, form five, and form six, and you have to pass those exams in order to get on to the next level. So overall in Fiji, the form five pass rate at the time was about 50 percent. And the form six pass rate, which they called a university entrance exam, which is interesting, because there's only one really one university in Fiji, but the university entrance exam form six, the pass rate nationally was something like 25, 30 percent. And so students would sometimes just repeat the year if they didn't, if they didn't pass, or otherwise they would just go back to the farm or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was their knowledge compared to American students at that level? Was it a good school system do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a pretty good school system, but it was a New Zealand school system, so that was one of the things that I think I struggled with. First of all, well, I struggled the first year just because I was a new teacher. I think anywhere, whether it's here in the U.S. or in another country, the first year of teaching is just really hard. So but I learned a lot that first year too, you know. I thought, oh, my students are really getting this, and then their, you know, would get their exam results and they were, you know, not as good as I'd wanted them to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were teaching in Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Teaching in Fiji, but in English.\n\nOh, you were teaching in English?\n\nYeah. It's a former British colony. In fact, the students were punished if they were not speaking in English in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. I thought you were teaching physics in Fijian."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.295865649587964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a pretty good school system, but it was a New Zealand school system, so that was one of the things that I think I struggled with. First of all, well, I struggled the first year just because I was a new teacher. I think anywhere, whether it's here in the U.S. or in another country, the first year of teaching is just really hard. So but I learned a lot that first year too, you know. I thought, oh, my students are really getting this, and then their, you know, would get their exam results and they were, you know, not as good as I'd wanted them to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were teaching in Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Teaching in Fiji, but in English.\n\nOh, you were teaching in English?\n\nYeah. It's a former British colony. In fact, the students were punished if they were not speaking in English in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. I thought you were teaching physics in Fijian."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh gosh, no, that would be weird. I'm not sure that they even have the vocabulary for all that. There's no need for the some of the physics terms in Fijian, there's no need for it. So. But that was one of my challenges. And that's actually why the second year I really found it really interesting and the students did a lot better too. And I did a lot better because I learned to figure out, OK, what's applicable to them? How do I make this? Because what do they need this physics for? They didn't really. A lot of it. Some of it, yes, they need. Some of it on a day-to-day basis they don't need. And again, this was based on a New Zealand system. So the New Zealand physics curriculum, there are certain things that were on there. I said they really don't need it. Why do they need to know this nuclear physics? I mean, come on. So I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than passing the exam?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.26456193359117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than passing the exams. So but then my decision was, well, OK, I'm going to take that out. But now they're not starting at 100, they're starting at 95. You know, a pass was a 50. So they're, you know, they literally just had to get the majority of the exams. So they had to get a 50 to pass. But so I was making a conscious decision to say I'm going to lower that upper limit, because they don't need that, but then they'll have a better understanding of what the other parts that they can apply and they can use in their daily life. But that was the challenge is, how do I make this applicable to them in their daily life? And the school built a new science lab while I was there, so it was beautiful new building. No equipment, no supplies really. You had a very limited budget, which they asked me to figure out what to get. So we did get some supplies for other things.\n\nFor most of it, I just had to figure out, well, what's, how can I demonstrate this? So you're looking at wave motion, for example, and I went, OK. There's a little pond out here and there's a little pool of water. All right. Let's look at, you know, dropping things in the water, the wave patterns, and let's put something in there and see it refract around that barrier and things like that. So just trying to get them to use what's already there. Or looking at, you know, how motors and generators work. Luckily, the school had one. It didn't always work, or they didn't always have the fuel for it. But they had a generator. So to be able to then take them, you know, crowd the whole bunch of students around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you figured all of that out. Did you have training or was there a teacher who came out, a supervisor who came out and helped you with your teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. That's what training was all about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But just the initial training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initial training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have anybody come out."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.071735481767966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. That's what training was all about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But just the initial training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initial training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have anybody come out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "See, we had somebody who came and visited us."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.857483868631072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initial training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have anybody come out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "See, we had somebody who came and visited us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, we didn't have anybody coming out. And they also didn't really have textbooks. All they had, well, in the form six in particular, form five, they did have some, but in form six, the textbook quote unquote was literally a book called Notes and Examples. And that's all it was, was notes and examples. OK, here's the topic, and here's a couple of notes and a couple of examples and then some exercises to do. And that was it. So no written text, no explanation. And the students were pretty much, I mean, they were rote learners. You know, they would write down word for word everything you wrote on the board. But if you said something, they won't just take notes and write it, they'll only copy what you write on the board.\n\nSo all of my, when I was teaching all of this, I had to literally write things in full sentences on the blackboard and they would copy it down. And I still kick myself. What I should have done at the end of that is I should have, you know, gotten one of my students’ notebooks, because I could have published a textbook. I wrote a textbook, essentially, because they would just copy literally everything that I wrote down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is that the New Zealand school system, is that Fiji, or what is that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.730537631812302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "See, we had somebody who came and visited us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, we didn't have anybody coming out. And they also didn't really have textbooks. All they had, well, in the form six in particular, form five, they did have some, but in form six, the textbook quote unquote was literally a book called Notes and Examples. And that's all it was, was notes and examples. OK, here's the topic, and here's a couple of notes and a couple of examples and then some exercises to do. And that was it. So no written text, no explanation. And the students were pretty much, I mean, they were rote learners. You know, they would write down word for word everything you wrote on the board. But if you said something, they won't just take notes and write it, they'll only copy what you write on the board.\n\nSo all of my, when I was teaching all of this, I had to literally write things in full sentences on the blackboard and they would copy it down. And I still kick myself. What I should have done at the end of that is I should have, you know, gotten one of my students’ notebooks, because I could have published a textbook. I wrote a textbook, essentially, because they would just copy literally everything that I wrote down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is that the New Zealand school system, is that Fiji, or what is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's more Fiji, that they just copy. They didn't, I don't think they were trained in how do you take notes. That's just the way they."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe that's how the Fijian teachers learned and just transmitted that way of learning."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.889342125713053, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For life, right. So that they understand, here are some of the other things that are influencing this, whether it's in physics or whether it's in something else, just being able to think outside the box a little bit. So there were things like that that I did because I felt it was just really important that they know how to do things like that. And then at the same time, teaching to the test. Each one of the exams in physics, they had a, they were given one sheet of standard equations, so they had to memorize and that they just had these standard equations that came as part of the exam. And we had covered them all over the course of the year, and I assumed that they remembered what they all were. And then I realized that they didn't necessarily remember. So my second year, that's another thing we did is constantly go back and just remind them, OK, what is this equation? What is it stand for or how do you use it? You know, what are the letters in that equation stand for, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you learned a lot about teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned a lot about teaching and I learned a lot about physics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because as an undergrad and majoring in physics, sure, I could solve the equations and, you know, write down these numbers. What do they mean? And so coming back and having that experience in Fiji really helped me better understand how the physics worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's why they have kids, in a lot of schools the older kids teach the younger kids."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.21038013968117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned a lot about teaching and I learned a lot about physics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because as an undergrad and majoring in physics, sure, I could solve the equations and, you know, write down these numbers. What do they mean? And so coming back and having that experience in Fiji really helped me better understand how the physics worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's why they have kids, in a lot of schools the older kids teach the younger kids."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's exactly for that reason."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.678200155201301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because as an undergrad and majoring in physics, sure, I could solve the equations and, you know, write down these numbers. What do they mean? And so coming back and having that experience in Fiji really helped me better understand how the physics worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's why they have kids, in a lot of schools the older kids teach the younger kids."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's exactly for that reason."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The best way to learn something is to teach it. Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, even having to explain it in a simple way is really hard."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.309111283557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's exactly for that reason."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The best way to learn something is to teach it. Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, even having to explain it in a simple way is really hard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And even just the simple example of how a generator works. Sure, I could explain it and I read it in the book and I understand, but then I'd actually never gone and physically started a generator. And so I did. And that's what they relied on in the community. That's the only way they had electricity was to have the generator. And so I was like, oh, OK. They talked about it. I've never actually done it myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now you know how to do it."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.12123475950778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The best way to learn something is to teach it. Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, even having to explain it in a simple way is really hard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And even just the simple example of how a generator works. Sure, I could explain it and I read it in the book and I understand, but then I'd actually never gone and physically started a generator. And so I did. And that's what they relied on in the community. That's the only way they had electricity was to have the generator. And so I was like, oh, OK. They talked about it. I've never actually done it myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now you know how to do it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now I know it. It was like, wow. So I learned a lot about the physics, just having to teach it to the students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk a little bit about the farming community, trying to use the right word, that you lived in. What kind of a house did you live in? Who were your neighbors?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.023594177230866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And even just the simple example of how a generator works. Sure, I could explain it and I read it in the book and I understand, but then I'd actually never gone and physically started a generator. And so I did. And that's what they relied on in the community. That's the only way they had electricity was to have the generator. And so I was like, oh, OK. They talked about it. I've never actually done it myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now you know how to do it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now I know it. It was like, wow. So I learned a lot about the physics, just having to teach it to the students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talk a little bit about the farming community, trying to use the right word, that you lived in. What kind of a house did you live in? Who were your neighbors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first, the farming community, because the school compound was a part of that, was in one of the sectors of this. Again, it was about 200 farms and nine sectors. And each sector had, actually each sector did have a church. So in that sense, it was kind of like a village, but not really. And the sectors would kind of do things on their own. And then once a month, they would all come together, generally around church. The Fijians are a very Christian community so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Missionaries got there."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.74044298333734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And submerged a lot of the crops and everything, submerged the generator, of course. Because the generator was in, for some reason, the lowest part of the community, that never flooded except in something like this. So we had no generator for probably three or four months. But it flooded the crops. And so, you know, there was, it created real hardship, because first of all, they couldn't sell the crops and they also couldn't eat, because they were eating their, people had to rely on their own crops to eat as well. And since the roads were closed, the shop, you know, slowly all the staples were sold. You know, no sugar, flour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, uh, I mean, somehow people made it through. At one point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you have food?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had some, I had a couple of things in cans basically, but there was no refrigeration. So I mean, I had some things or like, you know, pasta or something that none of them ate pasta, but I would sometimes go to the capital and get something like that where I could boil it if I had to. Of course, then they ran out of kerosene after a while too. My neighbors were really good too. They would often just share some of what they had with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was really very tight for everybody."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.267158870374821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, uh, I mean, somehow people made it through. At one point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you have food?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had some, I had a couple of things in cans basically, but there was no refrigeration. So I mean, I had some things or like, you know, pasta or something that none of them ate pasta, but I would sometimes go to the capital and get something like that where I could boil it if I had to. Of course, then they ran out of kerosene after a while too. My neighbors were really good too. They would often just share some of what they had with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was really very tight for everybody."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very tight for everybody. At one point, they did come and bring some supplies by helicopter. The entire country had one helicopter. And this is a country with somewhere between three and six hundred islands, depending upon what you define as an island and the tide at the time. About a hundred of those islands are inhabited. But they had one helicopter, so they came up at one point and brought some supplies by helicopter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was school open?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.63017652263869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had some, I had a couple of things in cans basically, but there was no refrigeration. So I mean, I had some things or like, you know, pasta or something that none of them ate pasta, but I would sometimes go to the capital and get something like that where I could boil it if I had to. Of course, then they ran out of kerosene after a while too. My neighbors were really good too. They would often just share some of what they had with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was really very tight for everybody."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very tight for everybody. At one point, they did come and bring some supplies by helicopter. The entire country had one helicopter. And this is a country with somewhere between three and six hundred islands, depending upon what you define as an island and the tide at the time. About a hundred of those islands are inhabited. But they had one helicopter, so they came up at one point and brought some supplies by helicopter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was school open?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "School closed for one day and then it was a weekend, and then it opened the next Monday. A lot of the students were absent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they couldn't get there."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.012563608195912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "School closed for one day and then it was a weekend, and then it opened the next Monday. A lot of the students were absent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they couldn't get there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They couldn't get there. There were some students that came by bus and the busses weren't running for a month. The roads were literally washed away or the bridges were underwater and all that so. And some students came. One of the more amazing stories was actually that, I think it was that first Monday, was teaching in the first period class and partway into the class a student came to the door. He was late, late for school, and he had to stop. And they were very, very polite, very formal. You know, he had to ask permission to come into the class and all this, you know, so, you know, madam, can I come in? And so I started to think about it and I said, wait a minute. How did you get to school? Because he was one who took the bus every day. And I said, how'd you get to school? And he said, I walked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said, How long did it take you? He said about three hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And three hours to go home."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.901037457358989, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in Fiji, we had a poster contest for our students. Um, happiness is a world at peace, I think was the theme. So invited students from all over the country to make their poster that reflected that theme. So he worked really hard on his and made this beautiful poster. I think somebody lent him the money, whatever, to take the bus into the capital and turn in his poster. And he turned in his poster and then the rains hit. And so he actually was stuck in the capital for, well, you know, to get home from there and then to come in. Long story short, he won the contest, and the grand prize was a trip to Australia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And here's a kid who had just barely even been out of the, off the farm, won a trip to Australia. It was a trip for two, so he had to have somebody with them, and he invited one of the teachers who had a brother living in Australia. So they had a place to stay, and all the teachers and students contributed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Contributed some money so he could go. And then so he, and he went on that year, he passed his exams. I think his dream was to be an architect or something, and I always wondered what happened to that kid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask whether you know."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.001152730398875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And here's a kid who had just barely even been out of the, off the farm, won a trip to Australia. It was a trip for two, so he had to have somebody with them, and he invited one of the teachers who had a brother living in Australia. So they had a place to stay, and all the teachers and students contributed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Contributed some money so he could go. And then so he, and he went on that year, he passed his exams. I think his dream was to be an architect or something, and I always wondered what happened to that kid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask whether you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I don't know. I have to go back. But I mean, that's the amazing thing is, there are a lot of those kids have a story like that. That one just kind of stands out, I think, because of when he walked into school after the big storm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, have you stayed in touch with any of the students or teachers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.001423123949229, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I don't know. I have to go back. But I mean, that's the amazing thing is, there are a lot of those kids have a story like that. That one just kind of stands out, I think, because of when he walked into school after the big storm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, have you stayed in touch with any of the students or teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I try. Not very. I haven't been very good at it. Well, they never were a letter writing culture or they didn't really have telephones even. The closest telephone when I was there was just down the road at the AG station and then the second year they did get a telephone at the school, but there was nobody to call. Nobody had phones, really, and they would, you know, occasionally write letters. But when I left, I wrote lots of letters and I got some back, but not really very many. Of course, this is the days before email."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Occasionally I'll get an email. I was in touch for a while with one of the teachers who emigrated to New Zealand later. So I got some emails, but kind of lost touch with that. And every once in a while, I'll, you know, somebody will find me on Facebook or somewhere and I'll get an email out of the blue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you characterize the Fiji culture?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.497261479113137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the second year, one of the other teachers at the school, she also had her brother and sister and they had a whole family, so she would cook for them anyway. And she said, you're just coming for lunch every day. And they also had some of the Fijian women in the community would come in and cook lunch for whatever students could pay for it. And it was only, you know, maybe 10, 20 cents. So there was always something there, but just incredibly generous. It's kind of interesting because it's, on the one hand, is generous. On the other hand, it's like, well, you have something and I'm just going to use it, you know. So it's kind of an interesting dichotomy there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is hard for an American, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's hard for an American, right. Because it's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's mine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's mine. That's right. I worked hard for that. That's mine. I like that, and you can't just have it. So getting used to that idea is interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you talked about that communal attitude, did that extend to Indians among the Fijians and Indians as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.108068310125708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's hard for an American, right. Because it's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's mine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's mine. That's right. I worked hard for that. That's mine. I like that, and you can't just have it. So getting used to that idea is interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you talked about that communal attitude, did that extend to Indians among the Fijians and Indians as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not so much. Not as much. To some extent, but not as much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's among the Fijians. And then the Indians had their own community."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.786742566806342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's mine. That's right. I worked hard for that. That's mine. I like that, and you can't just have it. So getting used to that idea is interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you talked about that communal attitude, did that extend to Indians among the Fijians and Indians as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not so much. Not as much. To some extent, but not as much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's among the Fijians. And then the Indians had their own community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. And out where I was because it was primarily a Fijian community, the Indian families, most of them spoke Fijian. But the Fijian families usually didn't speak Hindi. And some of the, some of them would speak English, not the older generation, but the younger generation, because they had to speak it in school. So it was interesting. I'd go to the shop and my Hindi wasn't that great. My Fijian was better than my Hindi. The shopkeeper was Indian, but the two of us would communicate in Fijian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You need some language, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.540825074229268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not so much. Not as much. To some extent, but not as much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's among the Fijians. And then the Indians had their own community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. And out where I was because it was primarily a Fijian community, the Indian families, most of them spoke Fijian. But the Fijian families usually didn't speak Hindi. And some of the, some of them would speak English, not the older generation, but the younger generation, because they had to speak it in school. So it was interesting. I'd go to the shop and my Hindi wasn't that great. My Fijian was better than my Hindi. The shopkeeper was Indian, but the two of us would communicate in Fijian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You need some language, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You need something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right. And he didn't speak English?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.378694526921409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. And out where I was because it was primarily a Fijian community, the Indian families, most of them spoke Fijian. But the Fijian families usually didn't speak Hindi. And some of the, some of them would speak English, not the older generation, but the younger generation, because they had to speak it in school. So it was interesting. I'd go to the shop and my Hindi wasn't that great. My Fijian was better than my Hindi. The shopkeeper was Indian, but the two of us would communicate in Fijian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You need some language, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You need something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right. And he didn't speak English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he did not speak English. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you get to travel around the country?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.309660585468231, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You need something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right. And he didn't speak English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he did not speak English. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you get to travel around the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I used my vacation time to travel within the country. Some people, some of the Peace Corps volunteers, would go to Australia and New Zealand because it's so close, over their school holidays or whatever. I waited until after I finished to do that. And I used the time to travel around. I mean, there are a hundred islands that are inhabited. And so there's, it's quite a spread."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far apart are those islands?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.344067317186923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he did not speak English. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you get to travel around the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I used my vacation time to travel within the country. Some people, some of the Peace Corps volunteers, would go to Australia and New Zealand because it's so close, over their school holidays or whatever. I waited until after I finished to do that. And I used the time to travel around. I mean, there are a hundred islands that are inhabited. And so there's, it's quite a spread."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far apart are those islands?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some are right next to each other and, you know, within sight and a short boat ride away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And people go back and forth all the time? Or did they really stick to their island?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.271185907985469, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I used my vacation time to travel within the country. Some people, some of the Peace Corps volunteers, would go to Australia and New Zealand because it's so close, over their school holidays or whatever. I waited until after I finished to do that. And I used the time to travel around. I mean, there are a hundred islands that are inhabited. And so there's, it's quite a spread."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far apart are those islands?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some are right next to each other and, you know, within sight and a short boat ride away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And people go back and forth all the time? Or did they really stick to their island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much stuck to their island. But it's spread out over a pretty large area. I was on the main island and the main island is about the size of the Big Island of Hawaii."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So pretty good size."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.1902065644283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some are right next to each other and, you know, within sight and a short boat ride away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And people go back and forth all the time? Or did they really stick to their island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much stuck to their island. But it's spread out over a pretty large area. I was on the main island and the main island is about the size of the Big Island of Hawaii."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So pretty good size."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty good size. And the that was the largest island, that and the second largest island. And then you go down to the third one, there's a huge gap then. I mean, so the two big islands, a handful of smaller fairly substantial islands, and then a lot of tiny, tiny islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So people are pretty isolated on those islands I guess?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.878007293809222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much stuck to their island. But it's spread out over a pretty large area. I was on the main island and the main island is about the size of the Big Island of Hawaii."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So pretty good size."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty good size. And the that was the largest island, that and the second largest island. And then you go down to the third one, there's a huge gap then. I mean, so the two big islands, a handful of smaller fairly substantial islands, and then a lot of tiny, tiny islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So people are pretty isolated on those islands I guess?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "People on those islands are pretty isolated. Yeah. I could go into the capital by bus and, you know, on a Saturday morning, I could go in and do my shopping and come home that day. Quite often I would go in and I would do my shopping and then I'd stay with a friend and, you know, go to a movie and get some food, you know, get some protein because I was eating mostly vegetarian at my site, mostly because it was just more practical. And also without refrigeration, you know, how do you get a tiny piece of meat and cook it up just for one? And the meat, meat and fish and all that. You'd think there'd be a lot of really good fish in Fiji, but there was no real fish market at the time with, you know, ice and all that to keep them fresh. So I'd see the boats coming in with fish, but they were sitting out in the hot sun and, you know, I didn't really trust it. And again, how do I get a fish just for one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was the capital, or is the capital?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.4913670293941, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People on those islands are pretty isolated. Yeah. I could go into the capital by bus and, you know, on a Saturday morning, I could go in and do my shopping and come home that day. Quite often I would go in and I would do my shopping and then I'd stay with a friend and, you know, go to a movie and get some food, you know, get some protein because I was eating mostly vegetarian at my site, mostly because it was just more practical. And also without refrigeration, you know, how do you get a tiny piece of meat and cook it up just for one? And the meat, meat and fish and all that. You'd think there'd be a lot of really good fish in Fiji, but there was no real fish market at the time with, you know, ice and all that to keep them fresh. So I'd see the boats coming in with fish, but they were sitting out in the hot sun and, you know, I didn't really trust it. And again, how do I get a fish just for one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was the capital, or is the capital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The capital at the time was, I think, what was the population, like 30,000 or something?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, little."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's little. I mean, the whole country had 750,000, if that's it. So actually maybe it was more than that in the capital. I'm terrible with numbers like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But not a big place."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.647965746768312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a big place, no. I mean, there was a university there and there was, you know, there was some embassies and all that. So it was, I mean, it's fairly good size. So it's got to be bigger than that then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whatever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But pretty much, you know, whatever I needed, I had to go to the capital to get it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went from island to island, was it culturally different or pretty much the same?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.831073051964792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whatever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But pretty much, you know, whatever I needed, I had to go to the capital to get it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went from island to island, was it culturally different or pretty much the same?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. Mostly the same. There were some variations from island to island, um, but not real significant. Culturally pretty much the same. It's interesting, though, there is one island and there was a Peace Corps volunteer stationed there. Again, during training they teach you the Fijian and the Hindi, and then he gets this assignment and he's going to this other island called Rabi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, you mentioned it."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.260584014771347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. Mostly the same. There were some variations from island to island, um, but not real significant. Culturally pretty much the same. It's interesting, though, there is one island and there was a Peace Corps volunteer stationed there. Again, during training they teach you the Fijian and the Hindi, and then he gets this assignment and he's going to this other island called Rabi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, you mentioned it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's Rotuma."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a different one. But the Rabi is an island that is, gosh, what's the, I can't even remember what country it is right now. Anyhow, the Banaban culture, pretty sure that's what it is. Anyhow, there it's from a totally different part of the Pacific, but their island was essentially mined to death of with phosphates. That's another issue in some of the Pacific. So that these other countries, the U.S. included, had gone in and mined the phosphates. And then they just totally, the island became unlivable. They had to have a place to live, so they relocated them. They found an island in Fiji and they just basically. So here in the middle of Fiji, is this totally different language, culture, people, everything on this one island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so they're, where they came from?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.622871127523718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's Rotuma."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a different one. But the Rabi is an island that is, gosh, what's the, I can't even remember what country it is right now. Anyhow, the Banaban culture, pretty sure that's what it is. Anyhow, there it's from a totally different part of the Pacific, but their island was essentially mined to death of with phosphates. That's another issue in some of the Pacific. So that these other countries, the U.S. included, had gone in and mined the phosphates. And then they just totally, the island became unlivable. They had to have a place to live, so they relocated them. They found an island in Fiji and they just basically. So here in the middle of Fiji, is this totally different language, culture, people, everything on this one island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so they're, where they came from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where they came from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they were relocated?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.262803861140391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where they came from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they were relocated?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Relocated to this island in the middle of Fiji. So you have issues like that in the Pacific. One of the other issues at the time was trying to get the Pacific, or Fiji at least, to be a nuclear free zone. I don't know if you remember the, uh, shoot, what's the? What's the name of the organization that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Greenpeace?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Greenpeace, thank you. Yes. Greenpeace had a boat, the Rainbow Warrior, that was going around the Pacific, you know, and somebody bombed it in Auckland and it sunk and it killed a couple of people, whatever. And so there were just a lot of, that was when I was there in Fiji. And there's just a lot of anti-nuclear things that. I have a t- shirt, I think I still have the T-shirt that says something like, you know, um, you know, test it in Paris, something in London, things in Washington, but keep our Pacific nuclear free. And of course, climate change is going to be, that's an issue right now that's really becoming very big in Fiji. A lot of these islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aren't going to make it."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.403115401267101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Relocated to this island in the middle of Fiji. So you have issues like that in the Pacific. One of the other issues at the time was trying to get the Pacific, or Fiji at least, to be a nuclear free zone. I don't know if you remember the, uh, shoot, what's the? What's the name of the organization that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Greenpeace?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Greenpeace, thank you. Yes. Greenpeace had a boat, the Rainbow Warrior, that was going around the Pacific, you know, and somebody bombed it in Auckland and it sunk and it killed a couple of people, whatever. And so there were just a lot of, that was when I was there in Fiji. And there's just a lot of anti-nuclear things that. I have a t- shirt, I think I still have the T-shirt that says something like, you know, um, you know, test it in Paris, something in London, things in Washington, but keep our Pacific nuclear free. And of course, climate change is going to be, that's an issue right now that's really becoming very big in Fiji. A lot of these islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aren't going to make it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're only a couple of feet above sea level. So the sea level goes up, the island's gone. They're already having problems with some of the islands because the saltwater is leaching into the water tables. So it's already becoming very salty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what are they thinking about doing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.44790600140789, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Greenpeace, thank you. Yes. Greenpeace had a boat, the Rainbow Warrior, that was going around the Pacific, you know, and somebody bombed it in Auckland and it sunk and it killed a couple of people, whatever. And so there were just a lot of, that was when I was there in Fiji. And there's just a lot of anti-nuclear things that. I have a t- shirt, I think I still have the T-shirt that says something like, you know, um, you know, test it in Paris, something in London, things in Washington, but keep our Pacific nuclear free. And of course, climate change is going to be, that's an issue right now that's really becoming very big in Fiji. A lot of these islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aren't going to make it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're only a couple of feet above sea level. So the sea level goes up, the island's gone. They're already having problems with some of the islands because the saltwater is leaching into the water tables. So it's already becoming very salty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what are they thinking about doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah. Well, a lot of those little islands, they'll just have to abandon the islands and they'll have to find somewhere else to live. I mean, the main island is huge. And so that part of climate change won't be a factor. You know, severe weather is another factor. The biggest tropical cyclone I think anywhere hit Fiji last year, a tropical cyclone Winston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they're right in the."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.497673334897655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're only a couple of feet above sea level. So the sea level goes up, the island's gone. They're already having problems with some of the islands because the saltwater is leaching into the water tables. So it's already becoming very salty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what are they thinking about doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah. Well, a lot of those little islands, they'll just have to abandon the islands and they'll have to find somewhere else to live. I mean, the main island is huge. And so that part of climate change won't be a factor. You know, severe weather is another factor. The biggest tropical cyclone I think anywhere hit Fiji last year, a tropical cyclone Winston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they're right in the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're right in that path. In fact, right now, I was reading this morning in my email some, there's heavy flooding in Fiji right now. It's really affecting things. But there was literally one island last year in the tropical cyclone that just pretty much got flattened. I mean, everything just wiped out. All the trees are stripped of all the leaves. Buildings were all flattened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what does that do for people who get wiped out all the time? How do they think about that? Well, how do you think about it now that you've lived in a place like that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.552970372108506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah. Well, a lot of those little islands, they'll just have to abandon the islands and they'll have to find somewhere else to live. I mean, the main island is huge. And so that part of climate change won't be a factor. You know, severe weather is another factor. The biggest tropical cyclone I think anywhere hit Fiji last year, a tropical cyclone Winston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they're right in the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're right in that path. In fact, right now, I was reading this morning in my email some, there's heavy flooding in Fiji right now. It's really affecting things. But there was literally one island last year in the tropical cyclone that just pretty much got flattened. I mean, everything just wiped out. All the trees are stripped of all the leaves. Buildings were all flattened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what does that do for people who get wiped out all the time? How do they think about that? Well, how do you think about it now that you've lived in a place like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I know. I mean, they're resilient. I mean, they're used to having storms come and they deal with it. I think it is getting worse. But it was. It's interesting. I did a one of my, um uh, one of the people in my training group was actually an architect, and she taught at the Fiji Institute of Technology and taught architecture. And she was studying housing and she still studies housing and all that, actually. But so it's interesting to hear from her perspective as we sometimes went to some of these villages to look at how the houses are constructed. And they did construct the houses to withstand, to some extent, the hurricanes. So and at that time, when there were deaths due to the hurricane, if it wasn't due to flooding or something like that, it's quite often it was due to something I think that was, you know, the houses that weren't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Built the right way."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.028358484084574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I know. I mean, they're resilient. I mean, they're used to having storms come and they deal with it. I think it is getting worse. But it was. It's interesting. I did a one of my, um uh, one of the people in my training group was actually an architect, and she taught at the Fiji Institute of Technology and taught architecture. And she was studying housing and she still studies housing and all that, actually. But so it's interesting to hear from her perspective as we sometimes went to some of these villages to look at how the houses are constructed. And they did construct the houses to withstand, to some extent, the hurricanes. So and at that time, when there were deaths due to the hurricane, if it wasn't due to flooding or something like that, it's quite often it was due to something I think that was, you know, the houses that weren't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Built the right way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Built the right way. So, you know, they'd be in a church or something and the cement wall would collapse. Or one of the biggest problems, every house, pretty much every house had a tin roof."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I can remember sitting in my house during a hurricane and hearing my roof starting to peel off. And a lot of these roofs would just peel off and then they're just flying knives, really. I mean, these big pieces of sheet metal are just flying across, you know, that's a huge danger. But in the interior, a lot of the houses, either they're made from, if they're made from woven bamboo, the sides are woven bamboo that the wind just goes right through it, you know, so it doesn't. I mean, it works for Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't collapse. Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.808959737973744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a skill I learned. Also made it really hot. You know, it's really and you get it. You get the sun on one of those tin roofs. It's just, it was pretty brutal. But so, you know, and like I guess reflecting on some of that is it's interesting that, you know, they thought this was their advancing and this is the way you've got to do things. You've got to build things out of wood and concrete instead of. But that doesn't necessarily work as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So let's just. So you then traveled to Australia and New Zealand on the way home, and I know you're now at the National Peace Corps Association."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a little bit about the path from Fiji to that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Path from Fiji to that. Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a straight line?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.060461533780307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is in Rhode Island. So I went home and I accepted the job and moved there and stayed there for nine years. And along the way, I went and got my master's degree in international education from the Harvard Graduate School of Education. And so I was teaching just math there, but also doing a lot with the students in terms of international and intercultural understanding. You know, the other teachers knew that I had been in Peace Corps, and they kind of encouraged me to help do that, and that's third goal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Third goal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Third goal. And so after a number of years there, I wanted to do more than just teaching in one school. And so I left the school, started job hunting, came to D.C. It was actually right when National Peace Corps Association got a grant to start their global teaching at Global Educators Network."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I got hired to start that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is that? I don't know what that is."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.840075967630009, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I got hired to start that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is that? I don't know what that is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, and it's, it actually, we're phasing that aspect of it out now, but it was designed as a resource and a network for primarily returned Peace Corps volunteers who come back from Peace Corps and they go into teaching. And how do you bring more of that intercultural and international understanding into the classroom? We quickly realized it's not just our RPCVs, it could be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anybody."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anybody. So we became essentially a resource for teachers who needed more support and training and materials for bringing that international understanding into the classroom, into the curriculum. All grade levels, all subject areas. So it's not just, OK, in social studies today, we're going to talk about this and boom, we're done. But how do you infuse it into your math class? How do you infuse it into your physical education class? How do you infuse it into all different subject matters? I mean, this is 20 years ago, and this is something that wasn't done much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it done much now?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.56799502176544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anybody. So we became essentially a resource for teachers who needed more support and training and materials for bringing that international understanding into the classroom, into the curriculum. All grade levels, all subject areas. So it's not just, OK, in social studies today, we're going to talk about this and boom, we're done. But how do you infuse it into your math class? How do you infuse it into your physical education class? How do you infuse it into all different subject matters? I mean, this is 20 years ago, and this is something that wasn't done much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it done much now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, definitely. It's a lot more, which is one of the reasons we're kind of phasing it out from NPCA, because there are so many other organizations that are doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a lot. In fact, there's almost so much that now it's the opposite problem. How do the teachers kind of wade through all this and figure out what's going to work best for them? So, yeah, so I was NPCA, brought on to do that, and really develop our global education program. And so now, as I mentioned, there are so many other organizations that are doing it that we're focusing now on what's really key to our mission. It's not really working with other educators. And also Peace Corps has their worldwide schools program, too. So there are a lot of resources already there, but focusing now on how can we help like our affiliate groups do more third goal and global education. How do they infuse that into their work? And of course, NPCA is just doing a lot, a lot more in other directions as well.\n\nSo my role there has evolved from the Global Teach Net program to then I became the director of global education, and then director of global education and technology, and then global education and programs, and then eventually was asked to be the vice president. So I've had the role of vice president for quite a while now, but all those other pieces are still there underneath it. It just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just keep changing titles."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.195298196090001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think somebody from the community. Anyway, then I looked at my neighbor and she had a house the same size of mine. And it was she and her husband and four kids and then a niece from the nearby village and another cousin from some, you know, so like eight people living there. And so after a while, I said, this is silly. You know, one of the, at least some of them can come down and sleep here at night, and that's what they did. Two of the girls would come down at night and just sleep there and then that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had company."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had some company. Yeah. And we actually didn't do that the second year. But the first year it was actually OK I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they got to know you better. And you got to know them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And what I was up against too is, what do they know about American women? They didn't have TV at that time in Fiji. They do now, and they've got a couple channels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you thinking that's good or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.661442440100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had some company. Yeah. And we actually didn't do that the second year. But the first year it was actually OK I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they got to know you better. And you got to know them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And what I was up against too is, what do they know about American women? They didn't have TV at that time in Fiji. They do now, and they've got a couple channels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you thinking that's good or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, I mean, they had television sets because that's what they had, the videos. So the videos would be these horrible American movies or TV shows or whatever. So what did they know about women? Well, the show that they had they watched the most was Dallas. So certainly well all the women are sleeping around and they all carry guns, you know? It's like, well, no, sorry, that's not how it really works. So, yeah, trying to combat the stereotypes, but they didn't have a whole lot to go on in terms of, you know, what are, what's it like? You know, so yeah. So I think I helped in some regard in the second goal as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting because you're a woman, especially."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.179380489000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And what I was up against too is, what do they know about American women? They didn't have TV at that time in Fiji. They do now, and they've got a couple channels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you thinking that's good or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, I mean, they had television sets because that's what they had, the videos. So the videos would be these horrible American movies or TV shows or whatever. So what did they know about women? Well, the show that they had they watched the most was Dallas. So certainly well all the women are sleeping around and they all carry guns, you know? It's like, well, no, sorry, that's not how it really works. So, yeah, trying to combat the stereotypes, but they didn't have a whole lot to go on in terms of, you know, what are, what's it like? You know, so yeah. So I think I helped in some regard in the second goal as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting because you're a woman, especially."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially because I was a woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, anything else you'd like to say? We're about out of time."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7714410000000007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, it went by quickly because, you know, I love talking about my Peace Corps experience and thank you for the opportunity to kind of reminisce and think about it. I mean, I think it's, uh, it is a wonderful program. You know, I'm grateful that the community that we have at NPCA is working real hard to make sure Peace Corps thrives. And I hope more people have the opportunity to do Peace Corps. It's a life changing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For everybody."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For everybody, it's life changing. I actually started the trend, the Peace Corps trend in my family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came back. When I came back in '87, my stepsister was applying to Peace Corps. She went to Guatemala, where she met her now husband, who was also Peace Corps Guatemala. And when I moved to D.C., through the Friends of Fiji, our affiliate group, I met my now life partner, who also served as an Indian man in Fiji, which is interesting, post-coup. So, yeah, he had a very interesting experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd love to interview him."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.6561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came back. When I came back in '87, my stepsister was applying to Peace Corps. She went to Guatemala, where she met her now husband, who was also Peace Corps Guatemala. And when I moved to D.C., through the Friends of Fiji, our affiliate group, I met my now life partner, who also served as an Indian man in Fiji, which is interesting, post-coup. So, yeah, he had a very interesting experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd love to interview him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were doing the same thing. We were both teaching physics and math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I was in the interior in a Fijian community. He was on the coast in an Indian community. And of course, as an Indian man after the first coup, after the coups. Interesting experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'm sure. Very different."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were doing the same thing. We were both teaching physics and math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I was in the interior in a Fijian community. He was on the coast in an Indian community. And of course, as an Indian man after the first coup, after the coups. Interesting experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'm sure. Very different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very different. And then in 2001, my father and stepmother, after they retired, went off to Peace Corps as a couple and served in Romania. And now my niece is serving, the daughter of the two Guatemalan RPCVs who got married. Their daughter is now in Peace Corps right now in Namibia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is amazing."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I was in the interior in a Fijian community. He was on the coast in an Indian community. And of course, as an Indian man after the first coup, after the coups. Interesting experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'm sure. Very different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very different. And then in 2001, my father and stepmother, after they retired, went off to Peace Corps as a couple and served in Romania. And now my niece is serving, the daughter of the two Guatemalan RPCVs who got married. Their daughter is now in Peace Corps right now in Namibia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Teaching, well, she will be teaching. The school year hasn't started yet, but she will be teaching math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but so many of you in your family."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very different. And then in 2001, my father and stepmother, after they retired, went off to Peace Corps as a couple and served in Romania. And now my niece is serving, the daughter of the two Guatemalan RPCVs who got married. Their daughter is now in Peace Corps right now in Namibia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Teaching, well, she will be teaching. The school year hasn't started yet, but she will be teaching math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but so many of you in your family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So many of us in our family. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there's a military tradition and then there is a Peace Corps."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Teaching, well, she will be teaching. The school year hasn't started yet, but she will be teaching math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but so many of you in your family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So many of us in our family. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there's a military tradition and then there is a Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In our family, it's definitely the Peace Corps tradition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'd love to talk to your parents about seniors going into the Peace Corps."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So many of us in our family. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there's a military tradition and then there is a Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In our family, it's definitely the Peace Corps tradition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'd love to talk to your parents about seniors going into the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Well, my father passed away a couple of years ago, but my stepmother is going strong. And yeah, they, in fact, my dad used to go all the time to the recruiting events and talk about being a senior in Peace Corps. I mean, they made some amazing lifelong friendships. I mean, she gets phone calls all the time from their friends in Romania, and they email all the time. And she hasn't been back recently, but she went back, probably, you know, three or four times to visit in Romania. And I think that's actually pretty cool that five of their seven grandkids got to visit them in Peace Corps. You know, how cool is that to go visit grandma and grandpa in Peace Corps, you know? The only two that didn't get there was just they were just too young to make a trip like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful. That's great."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In our family, it's definitely the Peace Corps tradition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'd love to talk to your parents about seniors going into the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Well, my father passed away a couple of years ago, but my stepmother is going strong. And yeah, they, in fact, my dad used to go all the time to the recruiting events and talk about being a senior in Peace Corps. I mean, they made some amazing lifelong friendships. I mean, she gets phone calls all the time from their friends in Romania, and they email all the time. And she hasn't been back recently, but she went back, probably, you know, three or four times to visit in Romania. And I think that's actually pretty cool that five of their seven grandkids got to visit them in Peace Corps. You know, how cool is that to go visit grandma and grandpa in Peace Corps, you know? The only two that didn't get there was just they were just too young to make a trip like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful. That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, a good tradition."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00031:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Well, my father passed away a couple of years ago, but my stepmother is going strong. And yeah, they, in fact, my dad used to go all the time to the recruiting events and talk about being a senior in Peace Corps. I mean, they made some amazing lifelong friendships. I mean, she gets phone calls all the time from their friends in Romania, and they email all the time. And she hasn't been back recently, but she went back, probably, you know, three or four times to visit in Romania. And I think that's actually pretty cool that five of their seven grandkids got to visit them in Peace Corps. You know, how cool is that to go visit grandma and grandpa in Peace Corps, you know? The only two that didn't get there was just they were just too young to make a trip like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful. That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, a good tradition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. It is a good tradition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So thank you for the interview."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00636:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 41.21377500381826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like most things in Orion, we don’t have a lot of folks to do that. We really had one lead for it. Then of course lots of folks provided fractions of their time to provide the data that went into that study. Really just one person leading it. Again this is the production part of it. There were other efforts in the other CAMs, but just one lead and a lot of slices of technicians’ time and engineers’ time to go feed that process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did everyone sit down and do an interview or were they just asked maybe to type up a memo and share their lessons learned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think not everybody in the program went and did it, but what we did is we tried to make sure we interviewed all the key folks who had a role in the build. There was a very specific effort to go down, talk to the technicians on the floor, and solicit those inputs. Then almost everybody who had a comment or had some thoughts for lessons learned was interviewed in it. Again I can’t remember the exact number of folks but there were many. They ranged from technicians working on something like the heat shield installation or those fasteners, all the way to manufacturing engineers who were trying to put the processes together, to the design engineers who were designing the heat shield for instance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many total people work in production?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the NASA side of it, on the nonprime side, we have between 24 and 30, depending on the time phasing. On the contractor side between Lockheed and ASRC [(Arctic Slope Regional Corporation) Federal], who’s Lockheed’s support for technician labor, there’s about 250 or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s not a very big labor force, when you think about it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00057:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 44.237935723054264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came out here for my interview at JSC. I think tops maybe it was two hours, and that probably included lunch. I met only the Library staff, that’s the only people that I met. I also met Bill [William A.] Larsen. I interviewed with Bill Larsen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We weren’t under IRD [Information Resources Directorate] at the time. We were under Center Ops [Operations]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s another question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were under Center Ops. Bill Larsen, I don’t know what his position was at the time, I can’t remember. He wasn’t directly over the libraries. Donna [K.] McAllister was directly over the libraries, and I think Donna reported to Bill. At that time NASA was much more free with their thoughts about who should be hired, who should be fired, which of course does not happen anymore. Frankly, it didn’t happen much longer after I came on board. At the time, NASA was involved in the hiring process even though they should not have been. Yes. Interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is. What year was that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00057:26", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 40.45663715722799, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It still exists. DIALOG still exists. It’s not the powerhouse it was at one time, because again they’ve gotten away from the command stuff. They want to give the end user the opportunity to do their own searching. Even DIALOG has gotten away from command searching. My heart still hurts that I can’t use commands in what RECON is now called, NTRS. That’s the current version of it, NASA Technical Reports Server. It is not command-driven at all. There’s no way for you to do it with commands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like it was DOS [disk operating systems]-based because of the command structure. Like you said, NTRS is GUI [graphical user] interface. That’s what it looks like, it’s the difference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because the commands, that’s typical with DOS."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a lot of the databases now, you still can do command searching, but it’s hidden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had no idea. I’ve never heard of such a thing as command."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00057:28", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 42.729596841364426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because the commands, that’s typical with DOS."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a lot of the databases now, you still can do command searching, but it’s hidden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had no idea. I’ve never heard of such a thing as command."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It’s different in each one. Knowing what the different commands are for each one is a challenge. Because we’ve made it easier and easier for the end user, over time now we don’t get people coming to the Library asking us to do research anymore. It’s very rare, but when I started that was all we did. It was continuous, all the time. It was like that up until probably the end of the ’90s.\\n\\n It’s sort of a chicken-and-the-egg thing. Our budget has been cut over time. It’s like, “All right, are we getting less requests for research?” [But it’s] not just budget cuts. When they moved us, when we did that whole UH-Clear Lake partnership, a lot of people thought the Library closed and there wasn’t a Library anymore. So it’s kind of like, “All right, are we not seeing people because they’re doing their own research?” That’s definitely part of it for sure. “Are we not seeing people because they don’t realize that the Library is still here? Are they unaware that there’s a librarian who can do research for them?” So it’s definitely changed a lot over time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you benchmarking against the other Field Centers to see if there are similarities? [NASA] Glenn [Research Center, Cleveland, Ohio], they have that beautiful new Library that they put all that money into."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00057:30", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 43.0328853792938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a lot of the databases now, you still can do command searching, but it’s hidden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had no idea. I’ve never heard of such a thing as command."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It’s different in each one. Knowing what the different commands are for each one is a challenge. Because we’ve made it easier and easier for the end user, over time now we don’t get people coming to the Library asking us to do research anymore. It’s very rare, but when I started that was all we did. It was continuous, all the time. It was like that up until probably the end of the ’90s.\\n\\n It’s sort of a chicken-and-the-egg thing. Our budget has been cut over time. It’s like, “All right, are we getting less requests for research?” [But it’s] not just budget cuts. When they moved us, when we did that whole UH-Clear Lake partnership, a lot of people thought the Library closed and there wasn’t a Library anymore. So it’s kind of like, “All right, are we not seeing people because they’re doing their own research?” That’s definitely part of it for sure. “Are we not seeing people because they don’t realize that the Library is still here? Are they unaware that there’s a librarian who can do research for them?” So it’s definitely changed a lot over time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you benchmarking against the other Field Centers to see if there are similarities? [NASA] Glenn [Research Center, Cleveland, Ohio], they have that beautiful new Library that they put all that money into."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it’s [NASA] Goddard [Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it Goddard?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00057:32", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 47.814317088104225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It’s different in each one. Knowing what the different commands are for each one is a challenge. Because we’ve made it easier and easier for the end user, over time now we don’t get people coming to the Library asking us to do research anymore. It’s very rare, but when I started that was all we did. It was continuous, all the time. It was like that up until probably the end of the ’90s.\\n\\n It’s sort of a chicken-and-the-egg thing. Our budget has been cut over time. It’s like, “All right, are we getting less requests for research?” [But it’s] not just budget cuts. When they moved us, when we did that whole UH-Clear Lake partnership, a lot of people thought the Library closed and there wasn’t a Library anymore. So it’s kind of like, “All right, are we not seeing people because they’re doing their own research?” That’s definitely part of it for sure. “Are we not seeing people because they don’t realize that the Library is still here? Are they unaware that there’s a librarian who can do research for them?” So it’s definitely changed a lot over time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you benchmarking against the other Field Centers to see if there are similarities? [NASA] Glenn [Research Center, Cleveland, Ohio], they have that beautiful new Library that they put all that money into."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it’s [NASA] Goddard [Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it Goddard?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought Glenn also had a new Library."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00057:34", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 50.904796764560245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it’s [NASA] Goddard [Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it Goddard?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought Glenn also had a new Library."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think Glenn does too, but Goddard’s is getting a lot of kudos. That’s really interesting, because frankly they were going to kind of like they did with us, get rid of the physical collection and be virtual. Goddard is a Research Center with a capital R. A lot of their scientists were extremely unhappy, but it was moving forward. They had weeded huge portions of their book collection. They had a huge book collection. Then they did an assessment of the building.\\n\\n Part of the reason they wanted to do this [was] because—like they did with us—they wanted to take the Library space. They discovered part of the reason that building was built was for the Library. There were other things in Goddard’s Library, but part of the reason that building was built was for the Library. The shelving in the Library was actually support for the building. You could not take the shelving out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s like the Library is fighting back."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00057:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 43.48511722438561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That is what the STI Center is. I frequently will answer the phone and say, “Library.” I don’t answer the phone and say, “STI Center,” but my signature on my e-mail says STI Center supervisor. I don’t use it a lot. I do not use that phrase a lot. It’s very confusing for people. They understand what a library is. They understand what a history office is. I’m guessing they sort of understand what a repository is, although I’m sure sometimes people are like, “What’s the difference between a library and a repository?” Frankly I’m not sure I totally understand. I sort of do.\\n\\n I don’t know the exact history. I do think it started shortly before I started working there. I don’t think it’s something that’s ever really taken hold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s just interesting to me to have that title, and I don’t know if it’s because NASA is so technologically focused that that’s something that they thought, “Ooh, instead of library what we really need [is],” and they love acronyms."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe people think they can go read novels or something in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also mentioned something that I was thinking about earlier. JSC is an Ops Center. You mentioned all the Research Centers that banded together and then allowed you to come in a little bit later. Are there differences in terms of the libraries as a result?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00057:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 37.2056858048729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe people think they can go read novels or something in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also mentioned something that I was thinking about earlier. JSC is an Ops Center. You mentioned all the Research Centers that banded together and then allowed you to come in a little bit later. Are there differences in terms of the libraries as a result?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My feeling is, generally speaking, the research libraries are better funded than the libraries at the Operational Centers. Now I say that with an asterisk. Some are better funded than others. But generally speaking the Research Centers, their libraries tend to get more funding than the Operational Centers, which I find aggravating to a certain degree. There’s a lot of research that goes on here. No, we are not considered a Research Center with capital R. But when you look at Space and Life [Sciences]—well, they were Space and Life Sciences when I was over there forever. I forget what they’re called now, but anyway SA [current mail code for Human Health and Performance Directorate]. There is a ton of research going on at SA, and it’s real peer-reviewed grant-moneyed research. They are the ones who are responsible for the health of the astronaut corps. They’re almost like academia, publish or perish kind of thing, bringing in grant money, writing articles.\\n\\n We have an Engineering Directorate, and they’re doing research too. They have to figure out how to get these people into space. We may not have research in the name of our institution, but we certainly do research. I think [NASA] Kennedy [Space Center, Florida, KSC] fares even worse than JSC does in terms of funding and being seen as an Operational Center and not a Research Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we turned on the recorder you said that you were a supervisor at the Medical Library in ’98. So you worked your way up pretty quickly."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00057:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.514490000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s a lot of great things about working here, and those things are more important to me than other things. There’s a lot of flexibility in the schedule, which I really appreciate. My husband, he works out here. It’s an easy commute. He spends a lot of time going to KSC. I can go with him sometimes, because I can telecommute. It’s not something I can do all the time but it’s certainly something I can do sometimes. They allow for it.\\n\\n It’s NASA, and, well, people think it’s cool. Sometimes you remember it’s cool. It has its moments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does.\n\nIt does. I usually think about that when I have visitors or when the tram comes by and everybody’s waving at me, and they’re so excited. This is really cool to be here.\n\nThink about the people you’ve actually met. It’s amazing.\n\nYes, there’s a lot. It is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teaching my son to drive, and I thought well, bring him out here on a weekend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s a great idea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was perfect, because you’ve got regular streets. You’ve got stop signs. You’ve got streetlights, but there’s nobody here. It’s a very safe environment. I brought him out here a couple times when he was learning how to drive. The trams of course are still going. He’s like, “What’s it like to work someplace where people visit?” It’s cool sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is cool when you think about it. I’ve had so many people tell me that they want my job. I’m like, “Well, I’m not giving it up.”\n\nThere’s one. No.\n\nExactly, better come up with a new job."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00057:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.016100000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teaching my son to drive, and I thought well, bring him out here on a weekend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s a great idea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was perfect, because you’ve got regular streets. You’ve got stop signs. You’ve got streetlights, but there’s nobody here. It’s a very safe environment. I brought him out here a couple times when he was learning how to drive. The trams of course are still going. He’s like, “What’s it like to work someplace where people visit?” It’s cool sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is cool when you think about it. I’ve had so many people tell me that they want my job. I’m like, “Well, I’m not giving it up.”\n\nThere’s one. No.\n\nExactly, better come up with a new job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "New career plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly, I’ll let you know when I’m done.\n\nWhen I’m through you can have it.\n\nWe’ve hardly hit on any of the topics, but I did want to ask you one question. Then I guess we’ll meet with John [Uri]. That’s becoming a medical librarian, because that is such a very specific career. Were you reading medical journals, or did you just pick it up the way you picked up NASA things around here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00057:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We call them silos. Everybody’s got their own silo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If everything could be connected, it would just make so much more sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For decades every once in a while we will hear from down on high that they want a database that would give them everything that NASA has."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The easy button."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good luck with that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00057:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For decades every once in a while we will hear from down on high that they want a database that would give them everything that NASA has."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The easy button."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good luck with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we’ve been through this process many many times where we’ve tried to do this. Everybody has their silos, and it’s really hard to break it down. Some of these systems we have control over, other systems we don’t have control over. Then you get inundated. It’s like, “Okay, well, you got everything now. Now what are you going to do? Because it’s way too much.” Corporate knowledge, the longer you’re here, the more aware you are of people’s different silos. You can’t get away from the importance of corporate knowledge because so long as those silos exist, you need to have people who know where they are, who knows who’s responsible for them, who can help you access them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s very true. We should probably end because I hear John scratching around there. Thank you. I will send you a note and we’ll have more time."}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.900734343495092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was discharged from the Air Force in 1969, and from ‘69 to ‘74, I attended college and also worked a number of part-time jobs. But I was looking for something more permanent. I had gotten married, we had a child, and I was looking for something where I could make a career. And I was familiar with the National Personnel Records Center. I’ve seen the building hundreds of times driving by, and I knew in general what kind of work they did there. So that led me to apply for a job. And as I said, I got the job and I started at the Civilian Personnel Records Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you were already in the area in St. Louis—I know you weren’t working for the National Archives, but were you around when the fire happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was certainly aware of the fire. It was the biggest news going. So, I was certainly aware of the fire. And I don't know, maybe it even attracted my attention more as far as applying for a job there. But yes, I lived in the area, and I was certainly aware of the fire. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you came to the Military Personnel Records Center about a year after the fire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, about eight months. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Eight months after the fire. Can you talk about what it was like in the building?"}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.778593714994546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was certainly aware of the fire. It was the biggest news going. So, I was certainly aware of the fire. And I don't know, maybe it even attracted my attention more as far as applying for a job there. But yes, I lived in the area, and I was certainly aware of the fire. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you came to the Military Personnel Records Center about a year after the fire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, about eight months. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Eight months after the fire. Can you talk about what it was like in the building?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I said, I started at the Civilian Personnel Records Center and we were more or less drying out records for the military center at that point. So you always had the odor of the records, the burnt records, and also some of the chemicals they put on the records. So that was ever-present. And then the other thing that was, I guess, something that I knew right away from working at the Civilian Personnel Records Center was we were anxiously looking through all of our holdings to see what might be available and useful to people who had lost their records. When I transferred out to the Military Personnel Records Center, it was still a building that was in, well, construction. I mean, there was still a lot of very visible damage, and there was the smell of the records, and the smell of the building. A lot of people who had done a lot of work right after the fire itself had many stories to tell about what they had to go through to move records and get records down to safety, more or less, after the fire. So, yeah, it was just something that was ever-present. I had a friend that did key punching of records, and she had to hold the records while she did that and said she would just go home and say, “I just want to get cleaned up, take a shower, get my clothes off. Just because it’s everywhere, all over me.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So before you moved to the military building, were you involved with the fire or recovery documents when you were at the Civilian Personnel Records Center?"}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.264613529499062, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s my partner in crime there. We’ve been together for a lot of years, and I still talk to him a lot during the week. And so anyway, so it was the same way with several other people that I work with, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It sounds like you had good rapport with a lot of staff there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and that makes for a happy day when you go to work. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Well, because you are working in a unique building and circumstances as compared to the rest of the National Archives, did the Archives or GSA, I guess, at that time, provide any special training for staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall that. I do recall that GSA—we were then a part of GSA until about ‘85. Anyway, I do recall the GSA was just as dedicated, you might say, to get it done and to get things moved and to get things fixed. And so I think that as far as the National Archives, again, I don’t recall anything in specific because these records were still not part of the National Archives. They were still owned by the military services. So we had liaison officers for all the military services. So if we had questions or problems or stuff like that, many times we would go to the liaison office just because, as I said, those records didn’t belong to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I’m glad you brought that up. So the records belonged to DoD, and we were basically taking care of them in the records center there. When did discussions begin about making these permanent records, and were you involved with that at all?"}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.071792810554513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and that makes for a happy day when you go to work. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Well, because you are working in a unique building and circumstances as compared to the rest of the National Archives, did the Archives or GSA, I guess, at that time, provide any special training for staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall that. I do recall that GSA—we were then a part of GSA until about ‘85. Anyway, I do recall the GSA was just as dedicated, you might say, to get it done and to get things moved and to get things fixed. And so I think that as far as the National Archives, again, I don’t recall anything in specific because these records were still not part of the National Archives. They were still owned by the military services. So we had liaison officers for all the military services. So if we had questions or problems or stuff like that, many times we would go to the liaison office just because, as I said, those records didn’t belong to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I’m glad you brought that up. So the records belonged to DoD, and we were basically taking care of them in the records center there. When did discussions begin about making these permanent records, and were you involved with that at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, those discussions started well before I retired. So I’d say in the 1990s, that I recall, where we would have staff meetings with people that came from our central office and were talking about that. And I remember even being asked a question, “what do you think? How many years after somebody is discharged?” That type of thing. So I think that was a given because obviously the earlier military records were already in the National Archives and were accessible because they were in the National Archives. I think it was a natural thing to assume. And I remember conversations came up about it a few times. But anyway, at least in the 1990s, I remember those conversations and you knew it was going to go that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did you notice any changes on how the NPRC was managed after the National Archives got independence from GSA in 1985?"}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.211613076300301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think there’s a couple thousand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those were not just National Archives or GSA, but other agencies as well, or just GSA and the National Archives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it probably was the other people included, too, I think. Liaison officers and some of the people from the Army Reserve Personnel Center. But I think I think, yeah, it was at least a couple thousand people working there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the culture like working there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was, you know, it was a military culture, I think, because in the 1970s, many individuals who worked there had been in the military, and then you were co-located there with the Army Reserve. So I think it was that kind of situation. I know we went to military retirement ceremonies and when we had some kind of event, maybe our people would have a fashion show for something, and the military officers would come in their dress uniforms. So to me, it seemed that way. It seemed more military. And of course, it was the Military Personnel Records Center, but it seemed more military than civilian. And officers and enlisted men were in uniform. And you dealt with those people most days and you saw them in the parking lot and you saw them in the cafeteria. So, yeah, I think that’s what I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Can you talk a little bit about the aspects of your work that you enjoyed the most?"}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7174204890000007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was. And basically it related to people who were either given, in other words, they ran a business or else somebody had given them permission to review their record. And there were people who wanted to come in themselves and review their record. So it wasn’t like immediate service. In other words, it might take some time to locate a record. So many of them would phone in and go, “how do I do this or that type of thing?” And then we’d have a research room where they could come when the record was actually available for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think is the most important impact that this fire had on the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think one of the most important impacts is first you had to have sprinklers in the record center. That’d be a biggie. But secondly, I think, the records that were destroyed—and there’s been other destruction of records throughout the history of the United States and also other places in the world—but I think the lesson learned was you don’t just throw up your hands and walk away and say, well, that’s all gone. In this case, we had many, many, many options and everybody immediately thought of the options and located those options, and it was a success. So I think the lesson would be when you have a disaster then what next? Well, what next is what really counts because you have to go find out what happened. How do we prevent it? How do we take care of the people who were affected? So I think the National Archives and GSA and other federal agencies did a good job with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So looking back at the totality of your career, though, how do you view your time at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had an enjoyable 30 years in the federal government, and I think I did more good than harm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember your last day at the Archives?"}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.130467210000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think one of the most important impacts is first you had to have sprinklers in the record center. That’d be a biggie. But secondly, I think, the records that were destroyed—and there’s been other destruction of records throughout the history of the United States and also other places in the world—but I think the lesson learned was you don’t just throw up your hands and walk away and say, well, that’s all gone. In this case, we had many, many, many options and everybody immediately thought of the options and located those options, and it was a success. So I think the lesson would be when you have a disaster then what next? Well, what next is what really counts because you have to go find out what happened. How do we prevent it? How do we take care of the people who were affected? So I think the National Archives and GSA and other federal agencies did a good job with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So looking back at the totality of your career, though, how do you view your time at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had an enjoyable 30 years in the federal government, and I think I did more good than harm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember your last day at the Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. Yes, I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel?"}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.4782969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had an enjoyable 30 years in the federal government, and I think I did more good than harm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember your last day at the Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. Yes, I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was just, you know, a real change in life because, as I said, I had lots of friends there and we were always close. And one of my closest friends, John Carver and I, we were both retiring on the same day. And we had a big blowout party. But anyway, I remember I cleaned out my desk and they had a bag and a few things that people had given me, little souvenirs and stuff. And every time I left work, I always told one of the secretaries there by the door where I left, I always said, “I’m off.” And every time she just laughed and went, “yeah,” or something like that. So this time I said that and I think she may have started crying. So, she wasn’t laughing that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been to the new building?"}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5314410000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. Yes, I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was just, you know, a real change in life because, as I said, I had lots of friends there and we were always close. And one of my closest friends, John Carver and I, we were both retiring on the same day. And we had a big blowout party. But anyway, I remember I cleaned out my desk and they had a bag and a few things that people had given me, little souvenirs and stuff. And every time I left work, I always told one of the secretaries there by the door where I left, I always said, “I’m off.” And every time she just laughed and went, “yeah,” or something like that. So this time I said that and I think she may have started crying. So, she wasn’t laughing that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been to the new building?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I’ve been there for retirement parties, things like that. And I’ve also been over to the cave where they moved civilian records over in Illinois. So yeah, I’ve been to both locations. Scott Levins at the military building and Kim Gentile at the cave location were always kind enough to invite me and other retired people to go to ceremonies and things like that, you know, the official opening of the building, and as I said, retirements. So yes, I’ve certainly been to both new locations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think about the caves?"}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I’ve been there for retirement parties, things like that. And I’ve also been over to the cave where they moved civilian records over in Illinois. So yeah, I’ve been to both locations. Scott Levins at the military building and Kim Gentile at the cave location were always kind enough to invite me and other retired people to go to ceremonies and things like that, you know, the official opening of the building, and as I said, retirements. So yes, I’ve certainly been to both new locations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think about the caves?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it’s a fascinating place, really. Tell you the truth, I know it’s a proven technology if you want to use the word technology. But I just think it’s amazing. And every time I go over there, I’m amazed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both buildings are, both locations now are impressive as far as where the old places used to be. The Civilian Personnel Records Center is now sort of like a warehouse transfer point for trucks. And it’s still there. And for the Military Personnel Records Center, I don’t if that building is even occupied by many people. There was talk about taking it down and things like that. But I don’t know what the plan is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that there was a reporter trying to ask some questions, and I know GSA still owns it, so they wanted to take the elevator that goes to nowhere, I guess."}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it’s a fascinating place, really. Tell you the truth, I know it’s a proven technology if you want to use the word technology. But I just think it’s amazing. And every time I go over there, I’m amazed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both buildings are, both locations now are impressive as far as where the old places used to be. The Civilian Personnel Records Center is now sort of like a warehouse transfer point for trucks. And it’s still there. And for the Military Personnel Records Center, I don’t if that building is even occupied by many people. There was talk about taking it down and things like that. But I don’t know what the plan is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that there was a reporter trying to ask some questions, and I know GSA still owns it, so they wanted to take the elevator that goes to nowhere, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think it goes that far anymore. But yes, that’s interesting. Yeah, I think there were some problems with asbestos in that building. So I don’t know what’s going to end up there eventually. Taking that huge building down will be problematic. I’ll put it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything about the fire that we didn’t cover that you wanted to share? Or the aftermath?"}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both buildings are, both locations now are impressive as far as where the old places used to be. The Civilian Personnel Records Center is now sort of like a warehouse transfer point for trucks. And it’s still there. And for the Military Personnel Records Center, I don’t if that building is even occupied by many people. There was talk about taking it down and things like that. But I don’t know what the plan is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that there was a reporter trying to ask some questions, and I know GSA still owns it, so they wanted to take the elevator that goes to nowhere, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think it goes that far anymore. But yes, that’s interesting. Yeah, I think there were some problems with asbestos in that building. So I don’t know what’s going to end up there eventually. Taking that huge building down will be problematic. I’ll put it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything about the fire that we didn’t cover that you wanted to share? Or the aftermath?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. As I said, I came on board about eight months after the fire. So people who worked there before, during, and after, especially right there at 9700 Page might obviously have different memories, different feelings about things. You know, when I finally got out there after the fire, things were just different. And I talked to people, guys who were there during and after. And yeah, my experiences weren’t exactly the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. We’re trying to interview a wide range of people who worked there after the fire in various positions. So, we’re talking to some of your former colleagues."}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think it goes that far anymore. But yes, that’s interesting. Yeah, I think there were some problems with asbestos in that building. So I don’t know what’s going to end up there eventually. Taking that huge building down will be problematic. I’ll put it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything about the fire that we didn’t cover that you wanted to share? Or the aftermath?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. As I said, I came on board about eight months after the fire. So people who worked there before, during, and after, especially right there at 9700 Page might obviously have different memories, different feelings about things. You know, when I finally got out there after the fire, things were just different. And I talked to people, guys who were there during and after. And yeah, my experiences weren’t exactly the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. We’re trying to interview a wide range of people who worked there after the fire in various positions. So, we’re talking to some of your former colleagues."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, hopefully that list I gave you would give you some people to talk to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s very helpful. We’ve reached out to many of them and almost everyone is going to participate."}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. As I said, I came on board about eight months after the fire. So people who worked there before, during, and after, especially right there at 9700 Page might obviously have different memories, different feelings about things. You know, when I finally got out there after the fire, things were just different. And I talked to people, guys who were there during and after. And yeah, my experiences weren’t exactly the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. We’re trying to interview a wide range of people who worked there after the fire in various positions. So, we’re talking to some of your former colleagues."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, hopefully that list I gave you would give you some people to talk to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s very helpful. We’ve reached out to many of them and almost everyone is going to participate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s good. And as I said, they'll have different experiences than I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But it was an important event, a big event. And lots of people at the National Archives have played quite a major role in helping these veterans. So it’s an important story to tell. And we have been telling it, but now it’s the 50th anniversary."}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, hopefully that list I gave you would give you some people to talk to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s very helpful. We’ve reached out to many of them and almost everyone is going to participate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s good. And as I said, they'll have different experiences than I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But it was an important event, a big event. And lots of people at the National Archives have played quite a major role in helping these veterans. So it’s an important story to tell. And we have been telling it, but now it’s the 50th anniversary."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My worry was there was so much done about the fire itself and it was my feeling that, yes, that was obviously a disaster and a significant disaster in the history of the United States. But I think it’s also very significant what happened afterwards and how things went so that we could verify military service. Now, I know that World War II veterans are few and far between anymore and the same way is going with Korea. So I don’t know how many requests they receive for those types of records anymore, but that’s a dwindling number, I’m sure. But still, it’s still there. The history is still there. Those people’s stories are still there. I think that’s all important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I really appreciate our staff’s commitment to the veterans. You’re right. We could have just washed our hands of it. But we’ve made this commitment to make sure the veterans are getting their records, and we’re still being impacted by the fire today, which is amazing."}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00003:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s good. And as I said, they'll have different experiences than I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But it was an important event, a big event. And lots of people at the National Archives have played quite a major role in helping these veterans. So it’s an important story to tell. And we have been telling it, but now it’s the 50th anniversary."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My worry was there was so much done about the fire itself and it was my feeling that, yes, that was obviously a disaster and a significant disaster in the history of the United States. But I think it’s also very significant what happened afterwards and how things went so that we could verify military service. Now, I know that World War II veterans are few and far between anymore and the same way is going with Korea. So I don’t know how many requests they receive for those types of records anymore, but that’s a dwindling number, I’m sure. But still, it’s still there. The history is still there. Those people’s stories are still there. I think that’s all important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I really appreciate our staff’s commitment to the veterans. You’re right. We could have just washed our hands of it. But we’ve made this commitment to make sure the veterans are getting their records, and we’re still being impacted by the fire today, which is amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Well, are there any other stories or anecdotes you want to share? It doesn't have to be fire related; it can be about your time at the National Archives."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.352175458941602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. Now there were legal aspects, but we weren't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so it wasn't mostly a legal issue. So what did you actually do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, um. Well, I'll tell you about the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was the University of Wisconsin, and we were in Milwaukee. It was a branch of the university in Milwaukee. We were basically housed at a YMCA. And this wonderful program with a very strong language component was conducted there. And there were several trips to Madison where the main campus of the University of Wisconsin is and an agriculture school. So we had some introduction, but basically, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren't an aggie as a result."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.61352828771289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, um. Well, I'll tell you about the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was the University of Wisconsin, and we were in Milwaukee. It was a branch of the university in Milwaukee. We were basically housed at a YMCA. And this wonderful program with a very strong language component was conducted there. And there were several trips to Madison where the main campus of the University of Wisconsin is and an agriculture school. So we had some introduction, but basically, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren't an aggie as a result."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, uh, we brought whatever we brought as liberal arts students and I had a legal background and I tried to think of legal issues when I was there and, and. And how to bring that aspect of thinking to what I would do. But even there, what I found myself inclined to do and was engaged from time to time in responding to the legal concerns of settlers, um, boundary disputes with neighbors. There's a certain amount of precipitousness to this entire affair. People were brought in, they indicated 500 acres might be divided and, uh, and you'd have, you know, multiple plots there. And the government had clearly the mark of the boundaries of these individual plots and made some sketch of them.\n\nAnd people found themselves in need, sometimes in conflict, you know, resolving these matters. And my, and my own inclination, you know, and I'm sure many, many of my colleagues had the same, is not to try to deal with this in a Western way, but to find ways of engaging community elders and in traditional methods of resolving disputes so that. That the people whose disputes were being resolved had some feeling that it connected to their traditions and therefore were, you know, acceptable. And the traditions would often try to find some way in which there's not a clear winner and loser, but a resolution to disputes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the disputes were mostly among Kenyans as opposed to settlers, I mean, the African Kenyans as opposed to the settlers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.015031430792101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was the University of Wisconsin, and we were in Milwaukee. It was a branch of the university in Milwaukee. We were basically housed at a YMCA. And this wonderful program with a very strong language component was conducted there. And there were several trips to Madison where the main campus of the University of Wisconsin is and an agriculture school. So we had some introduction, but basically, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren't an aggie as a result."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, uh, we brought whatever we brought as liberal arts students and I had a legal background and I tried to think of legal issues when I was there and, and. And how to bring that aspect of thinking to what I would do. But even there, what I found myself inclined to do and was engaged from time to time in responding to the legal concerns of settlers, um, boundary disputes with neighbors. There's a certain amount of precipitousness to this entire affair. People were brought in, they indicated 500 acres might be divided and, uh, and you'd have, you know, multiple plots there. And the government had clearly the mark of the boundaries of these individual plots and made some sketch of them.\n\nAnd people found themselves in need, sometimes in conflict, you know, resolving these matters. And my, and my own inclination, you know, and I'm sure many, many of my colleagues had the same, is not to try to deal with this in a Western way, but to find ways of engaging community elders and in traditional methods of resolving disputes so that. That the people whose disputes were being resolved had some feeling that it connected to their traditions and therefore were, you know, acceptable. And the traditions would often try to find some way in which there's not a clear winner and loser, but a resolution to disputes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the disputes were mostly among Kenyans as opposed to settlers, I mean, the African Kenyans as opposed to the settlers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's right. I think, you know, the settlers had moved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had moved on by then."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.06794003801494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's right. I think, you know, the settlers had moved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had moved on by then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, they had moved on. I mean, there were certainly individuals, this is 1965 and 1966, um, who had very recently been in the forest as fighters. And there were individuals who themselves were working out the transition from rebellion to working in a world in which the farms were theirs. But they were also marketing to national cooperatives that may have been controlled, still controlled, by expatriates. You know, many of them may have become citizens, but they came from the European society and the European economy.\n\nAnd then people had to figure out a relationship and both volunteers had to figure out a relationship and people had to figure out a relationship to them. You know, in the background of there had been a serious conflict. And it was important to understand that background at all times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had there been a lot of violence at the beginning when the settlers were being moved out? The way you talk about it, it sounds like it was such a peaceful transition. My guess is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the rebellion itself was extraordinarily violent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Violent, but after, after independence?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 17.853266708905487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, they had moved on. I mean, there were certainly individuals, this is 1965 and 1966, um, who had very recently been in the forest as fighters. And there were individuals who themselves were working out the transition from rebellion to working in a world in which the farms were theirs. But they were also marketing to national cooperatives that may have been controlled, still controlled, by expatriates. You know, many of them may have become citizens, but they came from the European society and the European economy.\n\nAnd then people had to figure out a relationship and both volunteers had to figure out a relationship and people had to figure out a relationship to them. You know, in the background of there had been a serious conflict. And it was important to understand that background at all times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had there been a lot of violence at the beginning when the settlers were being moved out? The way you talk about it, it sounds like it was such a peaceful transition. My guess is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the rebellion itself was extraordinarily violent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Violent, but after, after independence?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. Although, um. So I think the, you know, accurate historical answer might involve a bit of research about whether, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't feel it? You didn't encounter it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.38010247236276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's what you call a good question. I don't, uh. I don't have a present recollection of thinking of age as an issue, partly because I was older than the other volunteers. I had spent three years in law school. But, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So clearly it wasn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I was, I was aware that I didn't have agricultural experience, I didn't have veterinary experience, um, and I certainly didn't, didn't want to convey knowledge that I had knowledge that I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the challenges were to work with people to organize the provision of assistance. And even when I was serving as a settlement officer, I did see that the development of the role of the cooperative societies was the preeminent aspect of this. So that, that was to me the organization that could be picked up and continued on. And it had its challenges. Definitely had its challenges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you communicate with people, in English or was your?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.311224969291956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I was, I was aware that I didn't have agricultural experience, I didn't have veterinary experience, um, and I certainly didn't, didn't want to convey knowledge that I had knowledge that I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the challenges were to work with people to organize the provision of assistance. And even when I was serving as a settlement officer, I did see that the development of the role of the cooperative societies was the preeminent aspect of this. So that, that was to me the organization that could be picked up and continued on. And it had its challenges. Definitely had its challenges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you communicate with people, in English or was your?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically Swahili."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your Swahili was good enough to be able to communicate?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.234694410324394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the challenges were to work with people to organize the provision of assistance. And even when I was serving as a settlement officer, I did see that the development of the role of the cooperative societies was the preeminent aspect of this. So that, that was to me the organization that could be picked up and continued on. And it had its challenges. Definitely had its challenges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you communicate with people, in English or was your?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically Swahili."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your Swahili was good enough to be able to communicate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's sadly in the, in the graveyard of other languages in my head. But it, um, our training was very good. Fortunately Swahili, um, the language in which the sounds are very familiar sounds to an English speaking person. Kikuyu, on the other hand, the tone of language, and I didn't learn much Kikuyu, and it was far more challenging. But Swahili was a language that I was quite comfortable working in. In terms of dealing with other government administrators, and Settlement was an organization which was settlement officers and they were grouped together and there were regional officers and so forth. A good deal that could be in English, and English was a significant language of government at the time. But on the schemes it was Swahili."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So you've talked a lot about your, the job, and little bit about the preparation. Can you talk a little bit about just the personal relationships with, whether it was with Kenyans or other Peace Corps volunteers? Do you still have friends from that time? Have you kept in touch? Or how did, you know, how did you live on a daily basis or with others?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.275864060851077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A book, you know, to spend a little time talking in English. And they'd ask, and I was happy to give them away. But then there were others that I, I would work, work through. You know, daily life, um, was not one with either other Peace Corps volunteers or with Europeans.\n\nI did some writing when I got back, and it exists in little chapters of things. And I think right now they're boxed just as a part of a question, you know, which is, uh, maybe you have a box like that at home? And, you know, I had ended up with a box of things and it included things that I had written. And, you know, my father was a great saver. So he saved letters home, uh, and I, I'd like to think I have a fairly good memory, you know. But the reality is that I got to look at the letters just a couple of years ago and sit down and transcribe them. Before them, a lot of detail would be gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did a lot of other things in between."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did a lot of things. And I guess a bunch of time has, um, has passed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might be helpful for this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Read something. That would be wonderful."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.448915422127902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. You have projects completed and projects half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did it ever get completed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I looked for that. I like to think that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That it did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And maybe I'll imagine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, this is probably inappropriate for an interview, but I'll put in a plug for Peace Corps Writers."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.832128246808779, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I looked for that. I like to think that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That it did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And maybe I'll imagine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, this is probably inappropriate for an interview, but I'll put in a plug for Peace Corps Writers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There is a group of any Peace, former Peace Corps volunteer can publish through Peace Corps Writers. And if you've been writing things, you might think about that in your spare time, whether it's short stories or just a memoir or reminiscences. There's a lot of that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.369031385343087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And maybe I'll imagine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, this is probably inappropriate for an interview, but I'll put in a plug for Peace Corps Writers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There is a group of any Peace, former Peace Corps volunteer can publish through Peace Corps Writers. And if you've been writing things, you might think about that in your spare time, whether it's short stories or just a memoir or reminiscences. There's a lot of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have a distinguished Peace Corps writer in the family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do. So we can talk about that offline. You talked about your parents, writing your parents. Did you have other contact with them or what was their reaction to what was going on overseas?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.076701539270097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There is a group of any Peace, former Peace Corps volunteer can publish through Peace Corps Writers. And if you've been writing things, you might think about that in your spare time, whether it's short stories or just a memoir or reminiscences. There's a lot of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have a distinguished Peace Corps writer in the family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do. So we can talk about that offline. You talked about your parents, writing your parents. Did you have other contact with them or what was their reaction to what was going on overseas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or even your going in to start with?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.529668376966772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have a distinguished Peace Corps writer in the family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do. So we can talk about that offline. You talked about your parents, writing your parents. Did you have other contact with them or what was their reaction to what was going on overseas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or even your going in to start with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, uh, they were very supportive. This is the time in the, in the Peace Corps in which very few parents traveled to where volunteers were. I was just with a filmmaker that's gathering here in Washington, her name is Alana DeJoseph, who's setting out to do a documentary about Peace Corps. And one of the things that Alana described is that as Peace Corps aged in time, more people had family travel there. So there were more videos of volunteers. And I think maybe there were a couple of family visits that basically just communicated by, by letter. Um.\n\nI had in the course of that correspondence only one unhappy exchange of my parents. I tried to be a pretty good letter writer, uh, better at the beginning than, than much later. That sometime in the course of the first year, through some combination of having traveled and whatever, having not turned to it. I think I'd let three weeks go by. And toward the end of that, Peace Corps doctor shows up and says your mother is concerned. You haven't written. So I got on my motorcycle and drove down to this little town which had the military base, that had got a the military base. Maybe it was the post office that had a phone. And sought to explain to my mother that relax, I'm in good shape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You called her up?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.144075974407524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or even your going in to start with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, uh, they were very supportive. This is the time in the, in the Peace Corps in which very few parents traveled to where volunteers were. I was just with a filmmaker that's gathering here in Washington, her name is Alana DeJoseph, who's setting out to do a documentary about Peace Corps. And one of the things that Alana described is that as Peace Corps aged in time, more people had family travel there. So there were more videos of volunteers. And I think maybe there were a couple of family visits that basically just communicated by, by letter. Um.\n\nI had in the course of that correspondence only one unhappy exchange of my parents. I tried to be a pretty good letter writer, uh, better at the beginning than, than much later. That sometime in the course of the first year, through some combination of having traveled and whatever, having not turned to it. I think I'd let three weeks go by. And toward the end of that, Peace Corps doctor shows up and says your mother is concerned. You haven't written. So I got on my motorcycle and drove down to this little town which had the military base, that had got a the military base. Maybe it was the post office that had a phone. And sought to explain to my mother that relax, I'm in good shape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You called her up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did she contact Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.937862193786138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, uh, they were very supportive. This is the time in the, in the Peace Corps in which very few parents traveled to where volunteers were. I was just with a filmmaker that's gathering here in Washington, her name is Alana DeJoseph, who's setting out to do a documentary about Peace Corps. And one of the things that Alana described is that as Peace Corps aged in time, more people had family travel there. So there were more videos of volunteers. And I think maybe there were a couple of family visits that basically just communicated by, by letter. Um.\n\nI had in the course of that correspondence only one unhappy exchange of my parents. I tried to be a pretty good letter writer, uh, better at the beginning than, than much later. That sometime in the course of the first year, through some combination of having traveled and whatever, having not turned to it. I think I'd let three weeks go by. And toward the end of that, Peace Corps doctor shows up and says your mother is concerned. You haven't written. So I got on my motorcycle and drove down to this little town which had the military base, that had got a the military base. Maybe it was the post office that had a phone. And sought to explain to my mother that relax, I'm in good shape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You called her up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did she contact Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She, my mother was uninhibited. I'm sure she."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She found a way."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.93095799309571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did she contact Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She, my mother was uninhibited. I'm sure she."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She found a way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She found a way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So before we started the interview, you talked about travel before, after, during. Talk a little bit about travel in Kenya or neighboring countries."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.367731103439676, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She, my mother was uninhibited. I'm sure she."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She found a way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She found a way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So before we started the interview, you talked about travel before, after, during. Talk a little bit about travel in Kenya or neighboring countries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Uh, we. Sort of close, oh, maybe it was eight or nine months into our time in-country, we did gather volunteers, some number of volunteers together, climbed Mount Kenya, and then spend some time on the coast. The climb up Mount Kenya was from the Kenyan side. Most people, at least at that time, would climb from the Tanzanian side. The Kenya side was a bit more rustic going, going up.\n\nAnd one of the things that I recounted about that trip, one of the absolutely strongest memories is, first we got to to a hut at 15,000 feet. We'd stayed in a cave going up for two nights and in caves because it was more rustic on the, on the Kenya side. Then you get to a point where there was a corrugated metal shed, and it's probably a little plusher now than it was then, where people would stay waiting for midnight or 1:00 in the morning when the scree would be frozen. Otherwise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is the scree?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.99166453808821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I did that. Um. Had a wonderful trip with a, two Peace Corps volunteers and a friend who was teaching in, not a Peace Corps program but another program, into northern Uganda in which we spent, among other things, nights at missions along the way. And I was actually, I was fascinated by the mission experience. The missionaries who lived and translated the Bible into some dialect that it had not yet been translated into.\n\nAnd I told, just at a Peace Corps gathering, I told the story about being out there with these couple of friends, and our Land Rover broke down and we didn't know what to do. And we were way out. Then over the horizon comes this figure and it approaches and you get to make it out. A tall, lanky guy and he's got a blanket and is carrying a spear. And is closer and closer and finally comes. And maybe we had a few words in Swahili, and then he broke out into English. It turned out that he had served in the British Army as a mechanic. Crawls under."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was a Kikuyu man?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn't Kikuyu in this area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he was a Kenyan, a native?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was living in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Uganda, I'm sorry."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.077729133179986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he was living in Uganda and we'll call it a Maasai related tribe, it probably wasn't Maasai, but in that family of people. And with whatever he had, I don't know, the tip of his spear or some tool that we had, fixed our Land Rover. And of course, we thank him profusely. And then he heads off and he's gone over the horizon and we were saved. And I told that story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That type of sharing of cross-cultural experiences. You just don't know who it is that you're going to meet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What experiences that individual might have, might have had. And it was very true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a lovely story. Yeah. And then you went to Ethiopia on vacation once, is that it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.456418564032901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. You know, again, a, uh, this was with a Peace Corps buddy. We went up. We flew to Addis and then continued, continued north, ended up very close to the front lines with Eritrea at the time. Went to a place called Keren."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My wife is Karen, K-A-R-E-N."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "K-E-R-E-N."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, K-E. And pop, pop artillery in the distance. So that was 1966 and it was the front line."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Way before Eritrean independence."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.173798404481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My wife is Karen, K-A-R-E-N."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "K-E-R-E-N."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, K-E. And pop, pop artillery in the distance. So that was 1966 and it was the front line."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Way before Eritrean independence."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thirty years of war there as well. So thinking back about, well, you talked, I guess, about coming back. Um. You closed out your experience in Kenya and then how was the transition back, back home? Did you travel in Europe on the way back or come straight back? What did you do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.97088711609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, K-E. And pop, pop artillery in the distance. So that was 1966 and it was the front line."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Way before Eritrean independence."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thirty years of war there as well. So thinking back about, well, you talked, I guess, about coming back. Um. You closed out your experience in Kenya and then how was the transition back, back home? Did you travel in Europe on the way back or come straight back? What did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think the second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.0514969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another interview. Um. Traveled to South Africa. First went down to Dar es Salaam by train and then got on a plane to then, uh, then it was Salisbury. And I spent some time in Rhodesia and into Johannesburg, where I hooked up with a Peace Corps friend who flew down from Kenya. And that's another absolutely vivid recollection, Johannesburg in 1966. Um. Kind of downtown Johannesburg. And there, you know, there I see the four signs, white women, white men, African women, African men for restrooms and, you know, four different, four different sides. Um.\n\nWe spent some, some time. I had hoped, actually, to get on a freighter going up from Cape Town up the west coast, um, but didn't make those connections. So went back to Johannesburg and flew to, uh, Lagos. We arrived late at night. And I look out on the tarmac there as the plane is landing. There are soldiers all over the place. And it was the start of the civil war with Biafra. And I'm getting off the plane. Hadn't made no plans at all. You just, just arrive. And look out at the airport. And there was someone I knew, who was then the Peace Corps doctor in, um, in Nigeria. And we had worked together at a summer camp in New York State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so he took me off to a safe house as this civil war began. My travels in Nigeria were then limited. Since then having gone over, our deputy administrator in Kenya had been an original Peace Corps volunteer in Ghana and was now the country director. And then I think at some point I did pick up a, uh, a letter which indicated that my draft board wanted to see me on some date in November and that accelerated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Trip home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trip home, yeah. The draft board ultimately decided it wasn't interested in me and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were too old at that point. Or maybe not?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.279441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so he took me off to a safe house as this civil war began. My travels in Nigeria were then limited. Since then having gone over, our deputy administrator in Kenya had been an original Peace Corps volunteer in Ghana and was now the country director. And then I think at some point I did pick up a, uh, a letter which indicated that my draft board wanted to see me on some date in November and that accelerated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Trip home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trip home, yeah. The draft board ultimately decided it wasn't interested in me and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were too old at that point. Or maybe not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "26 was the magic year."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.31049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trip home, yeah. The draft board ultimately decided it wasn't interested in me and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were too old at that point. Or maybe not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "26 was the magic year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was, uh, I was just past 26. But gave, actually gave some further thought to going in as a JAG officer. And thinking about all that and, um, someone I shared with a couple of law students an apartment with in Chicago was then at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. And so I went up, had lunch, met people, and within weeks I was a civil rights lawyer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So just looking back at, at your experience, uh, you know, three goals of Peace Corps. To provide assistance as requested, to promote better understanding of the U.S., and to promote better understanding of the world by Americans. How do you think your Peace Corps experience or your life since then has, has met those, those three goals?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.4561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "26 was the magic year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was, uh, I was just past 26. But gave, actually gave some further thought to going in as a JAG officer. And thinking about all that and, um, someone I shared with a couple of law students an apartment with in Chicago was then at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. And so I went up, had lunch, met people, and within weeks I was a civil rights lawyer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So just looking back at, at your experience, uh, you know, three goals of Peace Corps. To provide assistance as requested, to promote better understanding of the U.S., and to promote better understanding of the world by Americans. How do you think your Peace Corps experience or your life since then has, has met those, those three goals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What's it, one is providing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first one is helping the country. The second one is helping people in the other, in the country understand the U.S. And the third is bringing the message of Peace Corps in the world back to the U.S. Do you have any thoughts about your experience and, and how, you know, how your experience met those three goals?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 12.729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was, uh, I was just past 26. But gave, actually gave some further thought to going in as a JAG officer. And thinking about all that and, um, someone I shared with a couple of law students an apartment with in Chicago was then at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. And so I went up, had lunch, met people, and within weeks I was a civil rights lawyer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So just looking back at, at your experience, uh, you know, three goals of Peace Corps. To provide assistance as requested, to promote better understanding of the U.S., and to promote better understanding of the world by Americans. How do you think your Peace Corps experience or your life since then has, has met those, those three goals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What's it, one is providing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first one is helping the country. The second one is helping people in the other, in the country understand the U.S. And the third is bringing the message of Peace Corps in the world back to the U.S. Do you have any thoughts about your experience and, and how, you know, how your experience met those three goals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there's always the risk of wishfulness in thinking about that. I understand the questions. Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's okay to say no."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Being at negotiations to, you know, to deal with legal issues as a variable but to keep the focus on the community. And generally at the time and since I've thought of that in connection with my Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Peace Corps trained you to, to do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it helped develop that, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It helped develop that. That's really a nice story. So I think we're going to close it out. One last question. Have you stayed, it sounds like you've stayed involved with a Kenya group of volunteers? Have you been active in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, not in a formal way. We've gotten together a couple of times and. And a couple of dear friends are, you know, from that, you know, from that experience. And we had a small group together a couple of weeks ago to talk with the filmmaker I mentioned, Alana DeJoseph, who's got a project that anyone listening to this tape should, should know is a great project, to do a documentary history of it. But anyway, it was an occasion to talk about our experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So thank you. This was a really interesting experience. I've known you for many years but didn't know all of this background, so I'm so glad we did this."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00009:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it helped develop that, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It helped develop that. That's really a nice story. So I think we're going to close it out. One last question. Have you stayed, it sounds like you've stayed involved with a Kenya group of volunteers? Have you been active in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, not in a formal way. We've gotten together a couple of times and. And a couple of dear friends are, you know, from that, you know, from that experience. And we had a small group together a couple of weeks ago to talk with the filmmaker I mentioned, Alana DeJoseph, who's got a project that anyone listening to this tape should, should know is a great project, to do a documentary history of it. But anyway, it was an occasion to talk about our experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So thank you. This was a really interesting experience. I've known you for many years but didn't know all of this background, so I'm so glad we did this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, the things neighbors keep from each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly. Exactly. So thank you."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 51.85882311769156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I wound up a corporal. I later, while I was in college, got in the Army Reserves and got a commission. And then retired as a Army captain. But—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year were you married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "…The first time, I was married in ’55 and we had two children. That’s the only two children that I have. That marriage ended in about ’73; and then in ’76 I married my present wife. She had three children. All of them at different points lived with us. And we have five wonderful children together; and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—We are very, very happily married.\\n\\n She was a political wife, one that enjoyed going out and doing things. And being gone a lot in my early political career probably led to the separation between [my first wife and myself] or the drifting apart. But she was a wonderful lady. But we had different…paths. She was a homemaker. But that was an unfortunate thing that takes its toll among many, many people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—you mentioned that—you’re degreed in Agricultural Economics. Anything from that background that you could see as you reflect on the years that you spent focusing so heavily on funding in the space program? Anything translate over?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 56.50980346410173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "…The first time, I was married in ’55 and we had two children. That’s the only two children that I have. That marriage ended in about ’73; and then in ’76 I married my present wife. She had three children. All of them at different points lived with us. And we have five wonderful children together; and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—We are very, very happily married.\\n\\n She was a political wife, one that enjoyed going out and doing things. And being gone a lot in my early political career probably led to the separation between [my first wife and myself] or the drifting apart. But she was a wonderful lady. But we had different…paths. She was a homemaker. But that was an unfortunate thing that takes its toll among many, many people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—you mentioned that—you’re degreed in Agricultural Economics. Anything from that background that you could see as you reflect on the years that you spent focusing so heavily on funding in the space program? Anything translate over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a lot of it. Like in remote sensing that—and in communications. You look at farming today. It’s totally different than when I was growing up on a farm. One, it’s—you have air-conditioned tractors and so forth. But you use a lot of space technology in that and in many other facets. Farming has become very scientifically oriented, and taking advantage of a lot of things. So, there—yes, there was a lot of spill-over of things, and how plants grow and disease resistance. A lot of the things that…the space program has helped move along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, the House committee. You mentioned how you got on those committees, that at the time there were vacancies and you just basically expressed an interest. When you got on the committee in terms of the timing of things in conjunction with NASA programs that were going on, what do you recall that—things that you did on the committee that related to Project Gemini? Let’s start with Gemini."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 41.5356003997714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every one of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only one I missed was Apollo 12—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and I was about 60 miles away when that happened, because I was in the middle of a campaign and I was having to campaign at that time. But I went to every one other than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your thoughts, as someone who has had, you know, worked kind of behind the scenes and in front of the scenes to fund this program? Your thoughts when we left for the Moon and when you actually saw those fuzzy images that we all watched of Neil and Buzz walking on the Moon? What did you think? And was it all—?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 45.03955599974599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only one I missed was Apollo 12—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and I was about 60 miles away when that happened, because I was in the middle of a campaign and I was having to campaign at that time. But I went to every one other than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your thoughts, as someone who has had, you know, worked kind of behind the scenes and in front of the scenes to fund this program? Your thoughts when we left for the Moon and when you actually saw those fuzzy images that we all watched of Neil and Buzz walking on the Moon? What did you think? And was it all—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had tears in my eyes. Tears in my eyes that it had happened. Went to every launch. One of the things we were fortunate: we got to know the astronauts and talk to them and—before their launch and after their launch. And they were human beings, and they had a humorous side. They were—in addition to being wonderful human beings, they were very competitive. One of the things that Mr. Teague emphasized that…and tried to have was a back-door communications with the astronauts.\\n\\n Are you happy with safety procedures? Are you happy with the training? Do you think you’re getting adequate training? Do you think that they’re short-sighting you on safety? And most of them were, you know, they never had any complaints. There was only one. One time we were meeting with them and these were very quiet meetings, no NASA people were there. Just the—."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These weren’t like subcommittee hearings?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 50.04395111082888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and I was about 60 miles away when that happened, because I was in the middle of a campaign and I was having to campaign at that time. But I went to every one other than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your thoughts, as someone who has had, you know, worked kind of behind the scenes and in front of the scenes to fund this program? Your thoughts when we left for the Moon and when you actually saw those fuzzy images that we all watched of Neil and Buzz walking on the Moon? What did you think? And was it all—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had tears in my eyes. Tears in my eyes that it had happened. Went to every launch. One of the things we were fortunate: we got to know the astronauts and talk to them and—before their launch and after their launch. And they were human beings, and they had a humorous side. They were—in addition to being wonderful human beings, they were very competitive. One of the things that Mr. Teague emphasized that…and tried to have was a back-door communications with the astronauts.\\n\\n Are you happy with safety procedures? Are you happy with the training? Do you think you’re getting adequate training? Do you think that they’re short-sighting you on safety? And most of them were, you know, they never had any complaints. There was only one. One time we were meeting with them and these were very quiet meetings, no NASA people were there. Just the—."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These weren’t like subcommittee hearings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These were private—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 43.226116832765065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—of the arguments—."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With [Rep.] Bella [Savitzky] Abzug."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t think they had very…[much space activity] going on in Wisconsin and Minnesota and in downtown Manhattan. I think some people have to be opposed to things, and I’ve debated Proxmire [several] times on this issue, and I didn’t think he had very, very strong arguments. I don’t think Walter Mondale had very strong arguments about this. But I think, by and large, we did, [and] the Cold War was still going on. We knew that, [or] had reason to believe that the Soviets were working on a similar type vehicle, which they were. And that, did we want to grant them this access that we didn’t have? And even the Air Force had some interest in this [in] the early days… Or until they had to put up some money, they [lost some of their] interest in it.\\n\\n The [Congressional] votes were still pretty good. Every year I would look at the vote to see how we were [doing] as a kind of a thermometer of how we were doing, and it kept getting better. And that was—I was very pleased at that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Nixon, who really was not a big Shuttle supporter (many would say that he was cost-conscious and, I’ve read, not real imaginative about space), he just pretty much saw the Shuttle as a political device. This is a way to keep NASA afloat. Give them the Shuttle. But don’t fund it very well. Don’t fund it, maybe, the way they want to have it funded. I mean, do you think that that kind of doomed it from the beginning? I mean, I’m just—I’m curious about at what point in the political process did you secretly know in your heart of hearts that what was being promised really could never happen with what Nixon agreed to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 44.63666641177421, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. NASA had talked to us and said, “You know, this is going to be the longest lead time item that we have. It’s going to take the most development.” They chose who they thought was the best company at that time. Or had the best proposal. And they chose Rocketdyne [Division of Rockwell International] . And Pratt did protest—Pratt did have concerns about it. But there are protest processes you can go through, and they did protest (if I’m not mistaken)."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think they did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there’s a process that that [you go] through. And in the meantime, [NASA] did go to court or got permission to go ahead and proceed while the protest was being resolved. And the protest was resolved in the favor of Rocketdyne and upheld the decision that NASA had made. I don’t know how—I don’t think Nixon called NASA and said, “Give this to this company.” Those are all very tough decisions to make, and they put together teams of experts to evaluate these. And you have to basically trust what they say.\\n\\n And then there were some other concerns about it, if I’m not mistaken, on the solids and what—whether to go with this type of a configuration or another type of configuration. And I think it was probably Aerojet [General Corp.] that was the other, if I’m not mistaken; and Thiokol [Chemical Corp.] prevailed. We tried to stay out of those things and leave it to the professionals to make the judgment, unless there was some real obvious hanky-pank going on. But I never found that. I always felt like NASA was very upbeat and up front about how they did these things. Because they knew they had a hot potato on their hand, and they’d better be able to justify it in the end after great scrutiny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But do you think politics factored in as long as it—you know, if they could justify it and there was a political consideration, I mean—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was also—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—you—you’re enough of a politician to—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 49.59629601308245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there’s a process that that [you go] through. And in the meantime, [NASA] did go to court or got permission to go ahead and proceed while the protest was being resolved. And the protest was resolved in the favor of Rocketdyne and upheld the decision that NASA had made. I don’t know how—I don’t think Nixon called NASA and said, “Give this to this company.” Those are all very tough decisions to make, and they put together teams of experts to evaluate these. And you have to basically trust what they say.\\n\\n And then there were some other concerns about it, if I’m not mistaken, on the solids and what—whether to go with this type of a configuration or another type of configuration. And I think it was probably Aerojet [General Corp.] that was the other, if I’m not mistaken; and Thiokol [Chemical Corp.] prevailed. We tried to stay out of those things and leave it to the professionals to make the judgment, unless there was some real obvious hanky-pank going on. But I never found that. I always felt like NASA was very upbeat and up front about how they did these things. Because they knew they had a hot potato on their hand, and they’d better be able to justify it in the end after great scrutiny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But do you think politics factored in as long as it—you know, if they could justify it and there was a political consideration, I mean—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was also—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—you—you’re enough of a politician to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—know that you can’t eliminate the politics though."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 48.44032890342495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was also—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—you—you’re enough of a politician to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—know that you can’t eliminate the politics though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they had these source evaluation teams that went in and looked at these. The other you could’ve been—and we sat through the briefings that the companies had on how the Shuttle would look and the different—they had Boeing [Company] and Lockheed [Aircraft Corp.] and—and Rockwell and General Dynamics [Corp.] and I forgot who all else giving briefings. I remember, we were in Los Angeles, sitting in a motel conference room. We wouldn’t even go to a government facility. We were there at an independent place and a very private meeting where they were going over why they felt like their configuration was better.\\n\\n Well, it was very confusing to a layman like me. They all looked pretty good! But it wound up with a kind of a combination of a couple of them. And of course, Rockwell had—or North American [Aviation, Inc.] then had done the command module for the Apollo Program. And McDonnell Douglas was involved. I felt rather comfortable and I think most members of Congress felt comfortable that they had justified their decision. It was—some designs were probably better than others, and we all knew that that was not going to be the final design."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall, I mean, you know, part of the debate that always comes up with Shuttle and any of the manned programs is with scientists, and that contingent of scientists who say these big programs—and there’s evidence of them killing smaller programs that can’t exist because the big program, you know, it keeps NASA afloat but it kills off some smaller things. And do you recall scientists—even from the days of Apollo there were scientists who didn’t like Apollo because they would rather you spend the money on, just launch some robots on some unmanned rockets. I mean, any recollections that you have of—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 53.82258767047216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—know that you can’t eliminate the politics though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they had these source evaluation teams that went in and looked at these. The other you could’ve been—and we sat through the briefings that the companies had on how the Shuttle would look and the different—they had Boeing [Company] and Lockheed [Aircraft Corp.] and—and Rockwell and General Dynamics [Corp.] and I forgot who all else giving briefings. I remember, we were in Los Angeles, sitting in a motel conference room. We wouldn’t even go to a government facility. We were there at an independent place and a very private meeting where they were going over why they felt like their configuration was better.\\n\\n Well, it was very confusing to a layman like me. They all looked pretty good! But it wound up with a kind of a combination of a couple of them. And of course, Rockwell had—or North American [Aviation, Inc.] then had done the command module for the Apollo Program. And McDonnell Douglas was involved. I felt rather comfortable and I think most members of Congress felt comfortable that they had justified their decision. It was—some designs were probably better than others, and we all knew that that was not going to be the final design."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall, I mean, you know, part of the debate that always comes up with Shuttle and any of the manned programs is with scientists, and that contingent of scientists who say these big programs—and there’s evidence of them killing smaller programs that can’t exist because the big program, you know, it keeps NASA afloat but it kills off some smaller things. And do you recall scientists—even from the days of Apollo there were scientists who didn’t like Apollo because they would rather you spend the money on, just launch some robots on some unmanned rockets. I mean, any recollections that you have of—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and tell me some of those stories."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 45.21229119491886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I retired. I still have the hat! But I haven’t worn it. Someone suggested I take it back to wear it for the John Glenn flight last year, but I didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a little warm then, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a little warm. When the Shuttle first, you know, flew that first time and then, as you said, how soon after that—I mean, you know, after four flights, it’s declared operational. But operational then was not what you all had envisioned it being back in the ’70s when the political fighting and the budget. I mean, how soon did you realize, “Boy, this is not going to get down to, you know, $50 a pound. This is not going to get down to a flight a week.” I mean, when did that realization come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think along about that time it occurred to me that this is—we’re still dealing with a very hostile environment. It was called space. And it will never be routine. I think that was wishful thinking on a lot of parts. I was not one of those who early advocated that that was even ever going to happen. But, I think I realized, and a lot of other people, that this is, still have a very precarious situation here. Turning it around, getting it [ready] and the amount of time it’s taking to turn the Shuttle around. The complexities of the systems. Even then, they were old. The computers and so forth were not the latest computers. The redundancy of test and so forth. All of that led me to believe that this is still a very complex thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just thought, “Okay, it may cost more than we expected but it’s still worth fighting for?”"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 56.86982349477039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, as I recall, they were talking about something that would be like a tugboat. Take it from the mother ship and take it to a certain place, and then drop it off and come back. And you could retrieve it. Or you could jettison it. But I think the IUS finally was the winner, which was an Air Force program and one of their contributions. And that became a very expensive program… And as I recall, it was to be a small vehicle that would take something out to geosynchronous orbit, leave it, and come back; and you could—the tug would be reusable. You could bring it back and—\\n\\n Then there’s some concern about: what kind of fuel would it have in there? And did you want to land with that type of fuel onboard a Shuttle? There were a lot of safety concerns about that. And probably, as I recall (and I don’t remember the exact figures), it was going to be very expensive to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what killed it or—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were looking at a throwaway-type smaller vehicle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, do you recall, like, there being a conscious decision to kill the space tug? Or did it just kind of—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think it was ever authorized. I think it was one of those proposals, and you get a lot of proposals. Some better than others. There was also another vehicle, smaller than the IUS, that could take objects out to geosynchronous or something of that type. And I don’t remember who built it now. I remember it was…not a—very big, and you could stack things on to take care of whatever the payload you were trying to put out there. But I think it was probably too expensive to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Shuttle’s flying. And I’m just curious. Talk about politics in space: [Senator Edwin Jacob] Jake Garn and [Rep. Clarence William] Bill Nelson. Do you recall the politics behind them lobbying to fly? And let’s start with Jake Garn, because he was first. I mean, do you remember what your first reaction was when you heard he wanted to go?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.046550065629885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, this is probably in…the late ’70s, early ’80s. And I said, “What?!” “Yeah, we’ve got a little cost overrun on the Shuttle.” And so, I said, “What happened since you came in here in March and told me everything was okay? And now, 3 months later, you’ve got this tremendous overrun.” “Well, we just found out about it.” “Yeah, um-hmm. I believe in Santa Claus, too.” So, we…[have] got to go to the floor to get this money and my reputation’s on the line, and I have to explain it to all the other 434 members of the House why I told them everything was okay earlier. So, we put a—we started an investigation of our own. “What happened?”\\n\\n And we found out that—and it was primarily [at] Rockwell that was having the problem, that when something happened on the [plant] floor it was about 6 [to 9] months before it ever wound its way back to NASA [Headquarters]. It was actually 9 months before it ever wound its way back to NASA. So, this problem had been festering down there and…[the process] not letting it get back to NASA.\\n\\n So, we held some hearings on that. “What is going on?” And then we had them institute a procedure that if something happened on the floor, there was a red flag went up and somebody, somewhere up the line was supposed to say, “What’s going on?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is when the Shuttle’s being built?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cause I have written down that there—in 1979, they asked for supplemental funding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well that was probably the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And—that was probably."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.718388961810984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cause I have written down that there—in 1979, they asked for supplemental funding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well that was probably the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And—that was probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also did it in 1990—1980."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.575987735345535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well that was probably the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And—that was probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also did it in 1990—1980."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think they did it real close together there, asked for more and then more."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.720330012762597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, could you have ever envisioned that for Space Station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I felt all along that if we had a Space Station, if there was a Space Station, that it would have to be an International Space Station. I didn’t think the United States could afford to do a whole Space Station by itself. I questioned whether the—how much—the amount the Russians would be involved. (Of course, this was back in the ’80s when the Cold War was still on.) But I did envision the Europeans and the Japanese and some other countries being involved. Canadians being involved. And I think it’s—I think it’s great!\\n\\n I think science has transcended political boundaries for many, many decades. And I think it’s a—it’s important that we try to do things together, and that something of this magnitude certainly lends itself to an international opportunity rather than just one country or one small group of countries going on their own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to have you reflect a little bit on some people and on some institutions that kind of factor into your career in politics and space. And we’ll start with some of the NASA Administrators. Jim Fletcher. Just your thoughts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wonderful, wonderful man. He was there twice and was, I think, a great guy. He was a little bit naïve about the political process; but when you went and talked to him and tried to explain it to [him], he was very—he was a very quick learner and could—and would very well respond. And he was a wonderful person. Had a great credibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bob [Robert A.] Frosch, who followed him."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.704111126867403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wonderful, wonderful man. He was there twice and was, I think, a great guy. He was a little bit naïve about the political process; but when you went and talked to him and tried to explain it to [him], he was very—he was a very quick learner and could—and would very well respond. And he was a wonderful person. Had a great credibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bob [Robert A.] Frosch, who followed him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bob came there as, I think, somewhat also naïve about the process…and came there more as a scientist and not familiar with this—with the manned program but more as an oceanographer. But he did a good job in a very troubling time at NASA when—when we were having some budget problems. Things were not going well. But…Bob was a good guy. We got along very well. I can’t say that with every member of the committee, though. But we got along fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "James Beggs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim was a great guy. Unfortunately, his career was tarnished by something he was later exonerated for. But he understood the political process. He was tough as nails and made a great contribution to NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bill [William R.] Graham being in place. I mean, some people have said, too, that changeover from, you know, Beggs, who was this fearless leader type, to Bill Graham that you had—it was almost like, you know, the planets collided at the time that Challenger happened to have all—everything in its worst possible scenario. I mean, did you agree with that? Or—?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.449012363186004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bob came there as, I think, somewhat also naïve about the process…and came there more as a scientist and not familiar with this—with the manned program but more as an oceanographer. But he did a good job in a very troubling time at NASA when—when we were having some budget problems. Things were not going well. But…Bob was a good guy. We got along very well. I can’t say that with every member of the committee, though. But we got along fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "James Beggs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim was a great guy. Unfortunately, his career was tarnished by something he was later exonerated for. But he understood the political process. He was tough as nails and made a great contribution to NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bill [William R.] Graham being in place. I mean, some people have said, too, that changeover from, you know, Beggs, who was this fearless leader type, to Bill Graham that you had—it was almost like, you know, the planets collided at the time that Challenger happened to have all—everything in its worst possible scenario. I mean, did you agree with that? Or—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Bill Graham was certainly a different type person than Jim Beggs or a lot of the others. And he came out of the—out of the black world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meaning the spy world or—?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.276680403540002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim was a great guy. Unfortunately, his career was tarnished by something he was later exonerated for. But he understood the political process. He was tough as nails and made a great contribution to NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bill [William R.] Graham being in place. I mean, some people have said, too, that changeover from, you know, Beggs, who was this fearless leader type, to Bill Graham that you had—it was almost like, you know, the planets collided at the time that Challenger happened to have all—everything in its worst possible scenario. I mean, did you agree with that? Or—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Bill Graham was certainly a different type person than Jim Beggs or a lot of the others. And he came out of the—out of the black world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meaning the spy world or—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The spy world. And, of course, he and Beggs did not get along at all! But he was President Reagan’s choice for that job. And I got along with Graham very well. I think he was—he was a brilliant scientist. I think maybe a little bit out of his element in—as being a NASA Administrator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what way? Management skills? Politics?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.3074226706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Bill Graham was certainly a different type person than Jim Beggs or a lot of the others. And he came out of the—out of the black world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meaning the spy world or—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The spy world. And, of course, he and Beggs did not get along at all! But he was President Reagan’s choice for that job. And I got along with Graham very well. I think he was—he was a brilliant scientist. I think maybe a little bit out of his element in—as being a NASA Administrator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what way? Management skills? Politics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think management, and not understanding the political process as he had from his previous life. He later went on to be the President’s Science Advisor. And I think in that he did a great job. And that was more in his—more in his element. I don’t think he’d really managed big programs and a lot of people. And NASA sometimes gets a little—gets a little unwieldy to manage. And I think it was probably a little bit over his element in that as far as the management style."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bob [Robert R.] Gilruth."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.230469634000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The spy world. And, of course, he and Beggs did not get along at all! But he was President Reagan’s choice for that job. And I got along with Graham very well. I think he was—he was a brilliant scientist. I think maybe a little bit out of his element in—as being a NASA Administrator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what way? Management skills? Politics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think management, and not understanding the political process as he had from his previous life. He later went on to be the President’s Science Advisor. And I think in that he did a great job. And that was more in his—more in his element. I don’t think he’d really managed big programs and a lot of people. And NASA sometimes gets a little—gets a little unwieldy to manage. And I think it was probably a little bit over his element in that as far as the management style."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bob [Robert R.] Gilruth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Bob Gilruth, you know, really brought the Johnson Space Center into fruition. One of the early pioneers at Langley, and was a wonderful guy. Tough but a great guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about Christopher [C.] Kraft?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.14496626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think management, and not understanding the political process as he had from his previous life. He later went on to be the President’s Science Advisor. And I think in that he did a great job. And that was more in his—more in his element. I don’t think he’d really managed big programs and a lot of people. And NASA sometimes gets a little—gets a little unwieldy to manage. And I think it was probably a little bit over his element in that as far as the management style."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bob [Robert R.] Gilruth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Bob Gilruth, you know, really brought the Johnson Space Center into fruition. One of the early pioneers at Langley, and was a wonderful guy. Tough but a great guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about Christopher [C.] Kraft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chris was another very interesting guy. I probably knew—well, I knew Chris better than I did Bob Gilruth. Chris was a tough—was a tough cookie. Smart and ran the Johnson Center and a lot of other places with a pretty iron hand. But Chris was always (I think) a—you never questioned where—you never questioned where he stood. He was a great advocate of the program and a good manager. And I think a good person at that time to run this Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of your political colleagues, I noticed that in one of the listings of—the committee listings, someone who’s on the committee with you who has now gone on to be (I don’t want to say) a NASA opponent, but he certainly makes his feelings known is [Frank James] Sensenbrenner [Jr.]. And I noticed he was on a committee with you back then. Your thoughts on James Sensenbrenner."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00168:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 23.074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the media, in many times, can be very fickle. I think generally they’ve been very supportive of the space program; but then, once you have a launch or two, then they never show up unless something bad is happening. And that—unfortunately bad news is—makes news and not good news.\\n\\n And I cite the time when the Skylab was going to fall and all the major press, particularly the TV networks, wanted to know where I was going to be when it happened in case it hit Chicago or New York; and then stick a microphone in my face and say, you know, “Congressman, explain how this happened?” And I asked the question before then, I say, “Well, what happens if it lands in the middle of the ocean?” And they say, “Well, we don’t care where you are. We won’t be coming by for an interview.” So, I said, “To heck with you!” (A little stronger than that.)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, that feeling that bad news is news and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—good news is not news."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think generally the press is—has been very supportive of the space program. And they still break in for launches and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The—when you reflect back on your committee work, what did you see as some of the most fun of being on that committee? Some of the most fun projects that you think you got to be involved with and oversee? Fun and fascinating, I guess."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00028:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 24.098421000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[LAUGHS] But she got to see a room full of people that I did talk to for a living over the years that had enough respect for me and what I had done that they came out that day. Yeah, those are the ones that stand out and all of the small moments that people reached out and thanked me every year for a number of years. It was a battle to keep NHPRC in business, the National Historical Publications and Records Commission. They would get zero funding, and we would fight and fight and fight, and we'd get them funded again. And every year, I mean, those folks at NHPRC never, ever failed to say thank you. And they were there that day as well and gave me a gift recognizing that. So that was a real poignant kind of moment in my life, in my career, and one that I'll really cherish. So . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It must feel very nice to know that you were appreciated that much, that that many people turned out and gave you their thanks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly. You know, you can get carried away. The first thing I said that day when everybody had said all the nice things about me, and I looked at this room full of smiling faces, I got up to the podium and said, \"I'm announcing today my candidacy for President of the United States.\" [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course you did. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought, \"Whoa! Hold on a second. I've [LAUGHS] gotten a bit carried away.\" So, anyway . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[LAUGHS] That's awesome. So you retired from the National Archives, but then you went into the private sector, correct?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00028:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I just want to thank you and thank the History Office, and the fact that the agency has this program of oral histories says a lot about the National Archives. And from what I know of you and your leader, Jessie Kratz, I mean, you got the absolute right people doing it, and you've got them doing it for the right reasons. And because you're in an agency that understands the past is prologue, it's a good thing to do this. And I just want to end by congratulating you and your colleagues for your patience and your preparation and your time, because I've genuinely enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good, because I've really enjoyed it too. So I'm glad that you enjoyed it also, that it wasn't just a long exercise that you were putting yourself through. So this has just been wonderful. It's been so interesting over these past four sessions, and I appreciate you taking the time out to do this, even though, you know, you're traveling around the world and whatever you're doing, a lot of other other projects that you have going on. So I appreciate you taking the time out to talk with me about everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Stephanie, it's been a genuine pleasure to meet you. And I will [CROSS- TALKING]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. Thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're another person whose career I will now follow. So congratulations. Yeah. And congratulations Archives to have somebody like you in this role. So . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you. Well, hey, I'm going to stop the recording now, okay? And then I just want you to hang on just for a second, okay?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.35532174543954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Kennedy was the new president and we heard about his announcement on the news and it was exciting and a friend of mine, Esmail Rosheen, was my roommate at San Diego State and he applied and was accepted into Colombia I. And I applied a week later and ended up in Bolivia II. Wasn't much time in between the time we applied, neither one of us had graduated. We still had, we were still undergraduates. But once we got accepted, we were fired up and ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so did you do? So basically you joined Peace Corps because of the Kennedy call?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, I mean, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you wanted to be out doing something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that and we had been working on my Spanish some over the years at San Diego State. We were close to the border. So Will and I, Orvano, another friend of mine. We’d go down to Mexico and hang out for the weekend or a week and practice our Spanish and stay up all night and drink and have a good time. And so the idea of going to Latin America suited me fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so what did your family think when you decided to do that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.283690828266156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, I mean, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you wanted to be out doing something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that and we had been working on my Spanish some over the years at San Diego State. We were close to the border. So Will and I, Orvano, another friend of mine. We’d go down to Mexico and hang out for the weekend or a week and practice our Spanish and stay up all night and drink and have a good time. And so the idea of going to Latin America suited me fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so what did your family think when you decided to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember. I was estranged from my dad at the time. I can't remember him having any comment. Otherwise, my mom was kind of excited about it. My brother, you know, nobody had any much to say when I was the baby of the family and pretty much did whatever I wanted to do. And they thought it was a good idea. I was the only one who was finishing college, so I guess Mom was a little concerned that I hadn’t finished, but I told her I’d do it when I got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you apply, did you ask for any specific country or any place you wanted to go?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.09298980918462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that and we had been working on my Spanish some over the years at San Diego State. We were close to the border. So Will and I, Orvano, another friend of mine. We’d go down to Mexico and hang out for the weekend or a week and practice our Spanish and stay up all night and drink and have a good time. And so the idea of going to Latin America suited me fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so what did your family think when you decided to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember. I was estranged from my dad at the time. I can't remember him having any comment. Otherwise, my mom was kind of excited about it. My brother, you know, nobody had any much to say when I was the baby of the family and pretty much did whatever I wanted to do. And they thought it was a good idea. I was the only one who was finishing college, so I guess Mom was a little concerned that I hadn’t finished, but I told her I’d do it when I got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you apply, did you ask for any specific country or any place you wanted to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I might have asked for Colombia because my buddy was going to Colombia, or at least maybe I didn't even know when I submitted the application, but I would have liked to have gone to Colombia. But yeah, I got Bolivia I've ever heard of Bolivia before, I doubt I doubt that I had, although I’d taken a lot of Latin American history at the time, so anyway, Bolivia didn't make any difference to me. One place is as good as another. I don't know if I would have wanted to go to Africa or I was, well, Latin America was what I was interested in, so I never thought about those other places until I went and ended up as a recruiter for Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, and so you were invited to join the Bolivia II project?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.658877565760687, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember. I was estranged from my dad at the time. I can't remember him having any comment. Otherwise, my mom was kind of excited about it. My brother, you know, nobody had any much to say when I was the baby of the family and pretty much did whatever I wanted to do. And they thought it was a good idea. I was the only one who was finishing college, so I guess Mom was a little concerned that I hadn’t finished, but I told her I’d do it when I got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you apply, did you ask for any specific country or any place you wanted to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I might have asked for Colombia because my buddy was going to Colombia, or at least maybe I didn't even know when I submitted the application, but I would have liked to have gone to Colombia. But yeah, I got Bolivia I've ever heard of Bolivia before, I doubt I doubt that I had, although I’d taken a lot of Latin American history at the time, so anyway, Bolivia didn't make any difference to me. One place is as good as another. I don't know if I would have wanted to go to Africa or I was, well, Latin America was what I was interested in, so I never thought about those other places until I went and ended up as a recruiter for Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, and so you were invited to join the Bolivia II project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, invited to join Bolivia II, and we showed up at Arizona State University in Tempe in June 1962 and started the training program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do anything special to get ready to go?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.176530628622984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I might have asked for Colombia because my buddy was going to Colombia, or at least maybe I didn't even know when I submitted the application, but I would have liked to have gone to Colombia. But yeah, I got Bolivia I've ever heard of Bolivia before, I doubt I doubt that I had, although I’d taken a lot of Latin American history at the time, so anyway, Bolivia didn't make any difference to me. One place is as good as another. I don't know if I would have wanted to go to Africa or I was, well, Latin America was what I was interested in, so I never thought about those other places until I went and ended up as a recruiter for Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, and so you were invited to join the Bolivia II project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, invited to join Bolivia II, and we showed up at Arizona State University in Tempe in June 1962 and started the training program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do anything special to get ready to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I quit my job and I don't remember how I got to Arizona because I lived in the desert down in Southern California. I was in San Diego and I don't remember how we got over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know they sent me a ticket."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.862811809581093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, invited to join Bolivia II, and we showed up at Arizona State University in Tempe in June 1962 and started the training program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do anything special to get ready to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I quit my job and I don't remember how I got to Arizona because I lived in the desert down in Southern California. I was in San Diego and I don't remember how we got over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know they sent me a ticket."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Airline ticket?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Airline ticket from Salt Lake City. So, for all you know, they might have, you might have flown."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.625346455090103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I quit my job and I don't remember how I got to Arizona because I lived in the desert down in Southern California. I was in San Diego and I don't remember how we got over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know they sent me a ticket."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Airline ticket?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Airline ticket from Salt Lake City. So, for all you know, they might have, you might have flown."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From where? They would have gone into Los Angeles. Was almost as far away as Arizona. I lived halfway between Los Angeles and Arizona."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so let's talk about the training. What did you think of the training process? What exact things did you experience?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.250384950100113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Airline ticket?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Airline ticket from Salt Lake City. So, for all you know, they might have, you might have flown."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From where? They would have gone into Los Angeles. Was almost as far away as Arizona. I lived halfway between Los Angeles and Arizona."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so let's talk about the training. What did you think of the training process? What exact things did you experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I enjoyed most of the training, especially the general studies type of stuff and the cultural stuff. The language for me was a lot harder. I was not and never have been a good linguist like other people in the group, including you. But so the language part, the hours of language, that taxed me a little bit. And probably they had some doubts about sending me because of my poor ability to learn Spanish. So subsequently the State Department sent me back to language school three times and I finally tested out at fairly high in the State Department, but it took years. In fact, I didn't really start learning Spanish until I got a girlfriend in Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that happens."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.944872166777905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From where? They would have gone into Los Angeles. Was almost as far away as Arizona. I lived halfway between Los Angeles and Arizona."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so let's talk about the training. What did you think of the training process? What exact things did you experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I enjoyed most of the training, especially the general studies type of stuff and the cultural stuff. The language for me was a lot harder. I was not and never have been a good linguist like other people in the group, including you. But so the language part, the hours of language, that taxed me a little bit. And probably they had some doubts about sending me because of my poor ability to learn Spanish. So subsequently the State Department sent me back to language school three times and I finally tested out at fairly high in the State Department, but it took years. In fact, I didn't really start learning Spanish until I got a girlfriend in Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that happens."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Marcella, do you remember Marcella?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Did you decide, did you find that the training was useful for your Peace Corps service?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.494302407531006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I enjoyed most of the training, especially the general studies type of stuff and the cultural stuff. The language for me was a lot harder. I was not and never have been a good linguist like other people in the group, including you. But so the language part, the hours of language, that taxed me a little bit. And probably they had some doubts about sending me because of my poor ability to learn Spanish. So subsequently the State Department sent me back to language school three times and I finally tested out at fairly high in the State Department, but it took years. In fact, I didn't really start learning Spanish until I got a girlfriend in Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that happens."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Marcella, do you remember Marcella?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Did you decide, did you find that the training was useful for your Peace Corps service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I enjoyed it. I mean, especially I was young and in those days and I enjoyed the Outward Bound and I enjoyed the travel associated with it. You’d get tired some. And I think it would have been a lot easier for me if I had been a better language student because I was the biggest part of it. But I enjoyed the training and I especially enjoyed Puerto Rico, where it was a fun time in Puerto Rico. I think the group pretty much all got along well. We didn't really have any big issues among ourselves. And the only real trauma came, I think, in Puerto Rico when they started cutting people and we all lost a few friends that we never saw again after that. And I think at that time, too, I started losing a little respect for some of the, some of the administrative people for Peace Corps. And I think up until then, I never questioned them, but I think after that, then I started losing respect for specifically one person who I thought was incapable of judging us as potential volunteers. And yet he was sitting there on that committee and I thought he was an idiot, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, there were a number of people who."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.21589156392334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Marcella, do you remember Marcella?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Did you decide, did you find that the training was useful for your Peace Corps service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I enjoyed it. I mean, especially I was young and in those days and I enjoyed the Outward Bound and I enjoyed the travel associated with it. You’d get tired some. And I think it would have been a lot easier for me if I had been a better language student because I was the biggest part of it. But I enjoyed the training and I especially enjoyed Puerto Rico, where it was a fun time in Puerto Rico. I think the group pretty much all got along well. We didn't really have any big issues among ourselves. And the only real trauma came, I think, in Puerto Rico when they started cutting people and we all lost a few friends that we never saw again after that. And I think at that time, too, I started losing a little respect for some of the, some of the administrative people for Peace Corps. And I think up until then, I never questioned them, but I think after that, then I started losing respect for specifically one person who I thought was incapable of judging us as potential volunteers. And yet he was sitting there on that committee and I thought he was an idiot, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, there were a number of people who."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know who I'm talking about too?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so. Ok, so all right, we did have an extended training period. I mean, I don't think there's been a group since then."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.017657293248153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I enjoyed it. I mean, especially I was young and in those days and I enjoyed the Outward Bound and I enjoyed the travel associated with it. You’d get tired some. And I think it would have been a lot easier for me if I had been a better language student because I was the biggest part of it. But I enjoyed the training and I especially enjoyed Puerto Rico, where it was a fun time in Puerto Rico. I think the group pretty much all got along well. We didn't really have any big issues among ourselves. And the only real trauma came, I think, in Puerto Rico when they started cutting people and we all lost a few friends that we never saw again after that. And I think at that time, too, I started losing a little respect for some of the, some of the administrative people for Peace Corps. And I think up until then, I never questioned them, but I think after that, then I started losing respect for specifically one person who I thought was incapable of judging us as potential volunteers. And yet he was sitting there on that committee and I thought he was an idiot, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, there were a number of people who."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know who I'm talking about too?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so. Ok, so all right, we did have an extended training period. I mean, I don't think there's been a group since then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who ended up training so long because of all these things."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.132910238577963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who ended up training so long because of all these things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the fact is, did we go home and then come back and that's when they're extended it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And after that, I didn't train much. I had a good you know, I went up to Vermont, which had never been in Vermont and fall in Vermont was just absolutely gorgeous. And I was from a place where I've never seen before like that. And I liked to read and sit in the windows of that big house and read a book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was kind of like a vacation."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.258789153975513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the fact is, did we go home and then come back and that's when they're extended it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And after that, I didn't train much. I had a good you know, I went up to Vermont, which had never been in Vermont and fall in Vermont was just absolutely gorgeous. And I was from a place where I've never seen before like that. And I liked to read and sit in the windows of that big house and read a book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was kind of like a vacation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vacation. Yeah. And then what’d they do, send us down to Miami, put us up there for a week or two?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, we were in Miami, we met in Miami. And then that was the night of the Cuban Missile Crisis speech, the Kennedy put up or shut up speech to Khrushchev. And then they sent us to Vermont. From Vermont, we went directly to Bolivia by way of Miami, you can't get out of it going south."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.065321282195015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And after that, I didn't train much. I had a good you know, I went up to Vermont, which had never been in Vermont and fall in Vermont was just absolutely gorgeous. And I was from a place where I've never seen before like that. And I liked to read and sit in the windows of that big house and read a book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was kind of like a vacation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vacation. Yeah. And then what’d they do, send us down to Miami, put us up there for a week or two?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, we were in Miami, we met in Miami. And then that was the night of the Cuban Missile Crisis speech, the Kennedy put up or shut up speech to Khrushchev. And then they sent us to Vermont. From Vermont, we went directly to Bolivia by way of Miami, you can't get out of it going south."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, you know, as long as kind of you get tired of being trained on that. Yeah. And we were both enjoying the trip down. I still remember fondly the trip down to La Paz flying on a 707. It was the largest prop plane at the time, don’t remember what it was, but it was the largest prop plane. We landed in Peru and I remember getting a shoeshine and talking to somebody in Spanish at the shoeshine. And then we landed up in La Paz and you knew you were in trouble when the airline stewardesses all stood with oxygen masks at the door when they let us off. And that was quite a sight. And then I remember going to the palace for a reception with Paz Estenssoro, and I have pictures of that. And that was really interesting and La Paz was fascinating, but I'm just just happy I didn't stay up there. I've been back two or three times to La Paz, it hasn’t changed. That trip from La Paz down to Cochabamba was a fascinating trip. I drove one of the jeeps and it was from this road that was really scary. Remember that? It was a frightening road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Terrible. I'm afraid of heights so it was like a nightmare."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.83372997801854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, you know, as long as kind of you get tired of being trained on that. Yeah. And we were both enjoying the trip down. I still remember fondly the trip down to La Paz flying on a 707. It was the largest prop plane at the time, don’t remember what it was, but it was the largest prop plane. We landed in Peru and I remember getting a shoeshine and talking to somebody in Spanish at the shoeshine. And then we landed up in La Paz and you knew you were in trouble when the airline stewardesses all stood with oxygen masks at the door when they let us off. And that was quite a sight. And then I remember going to the palace for a reception with Paz Estenssoro, and I have pictures of that. And that was really interesting and La Paz was fascinating, but I'm just just happy I didn't stay up there. I've been back two or three times to La Paz, it hasn’t changed. That trip from La Paz down to Cochabamba was a fascinating trip. I drove one of the jeeps and it was from this road that was really scary. Remember that? It was a frightening road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Terrible. I'm afraid of heights so it was like a nightmare."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, it was really something. And those roads were barely passable in parts and we all made it down. And then when you get into Cochabamba, the valley, it starts to lighten up and you see all the growth and the vegetation. And it's really quite a pleasant surprise. I guess we stayed there a while. I don’t remember driving to Santa Cruz, but few of us went down there. I guess we drove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, we drove it. We were there just a few days. I think it was Thanksgiving when we got there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we went down there"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we got to, you know, drive down to Santa Cruz. So when you got to where you were going to be, what, tell me about that experience."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.037477753353933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, it was really something. And those roads were barely passable in parts and we all made it down. And then when you get into Cochabamba, the valley, it starts to lighten up and you see all the growth and the vegetation. And it's really quite a pleasant surprise. I guess we stayed there a while. I don’t remember driving to Santa Cruz, but few of us went down there. I guess we drove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, we drove it. We were there just a few days. I think it was Thanksgiving when we got there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we went down there"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we got to, you know, drive down to Santa Cruz. So when you got to where you were going to be, what, tell me about that experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In terms of the job?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Well, what were you supposed to do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.48608639261548, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we went down there"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we got to, you know, drive down to Santa Cruz. So when you got to where you were going to be, what, tell me about that experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In terms of the job?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Well, what were you supposed to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was kind of funny. I was supposed to be on the experiment station. And who was with, who was I out there with?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jim Herberger? No?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 30.131805751187215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Jim Herberger was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Norm Coble."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Norm was there, yeah. And a kid that stuttered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Peter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peter Roycraft and Peter and I shared a house, a little house out there, or half a house. I forget what Peter's job was, but he was actually an agronomist or something you can actually do. That was a political scientist. I didn't know how to do anything. But they sent me out there to be my counterpart was to be the maintenance man at the experiment station and the job the best I could describe it, was to rebuild and get functional, the engines that had been left at the experiment station as part of the Point Four program. The Point Four program put a lot of money in the experiment stations and schools, and they gave them equipment and as soon as the machines broke down, everything else broke down with it. The concept was that they'd send these guys out to work and they didn't have any parts or the machinery. So that was essentially in the end, there was no job and so I spent the rest of my time making up jobs and making sure that I kept myself scarce from any authority figures that were trying to make me accountable for some work effort, and I had a wonderful time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what kind of things did you do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.80842211734067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some pretty big cattle ranch. So Mumford and I hung out together a lot. Then I worked, I helped a Marian priest, Jim Fitzgerald, who was a priest in Saavedra, and he also came out to Mineros. I’d help him with the kids, or do different things with him. You know, I like to say that I didn't have a job. They forgot to give me a good job and I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they did that with a lot of people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was too much effort for them to recreate your job somehow. And some of the people that were in charge of that stuff didn't know what they were doing anyway. And so it was best just to leave it alone, not complain and get on with your life and have a good time and, you know, enjoy the place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you can you think of any memorable events that happened while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Memorable events? Well, carnival. I got involved with the carnival and a combasa in Santa Cruz with guys, gals my own age, and they just accepted me like I was part of the family. And I mean, it was a ball. It was seven days. Yeah, eleven days or something. And we partied. We had parties going every day, some place. That was my first experience with that. And it was it was fascinating and a lot of fun and a lot of nice kids. And that was year I was hanging out with guys my own age and gals my own age. And it was pretty much the elite class in Santa Cruz, the youth and beautiful women and good dancers and good food. And I was in their homes and it was really very interesting, very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, uh, where were you when Kennedy was assassinated?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.120469019267412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was too much effort for them to recreate your job somehow. And some of the people that were in charge of that stuff didn't know what they were doing anyway. And so it was best just to leave it alone, not complain and get on with your life and have a good time and, you know, enjoy the place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you can you think of any memorable events that happened while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Memorable events? Well, carnival. I got involved with the carnival and a combasa in Santa Cruz with guys, gals my own age, and they just accepted me like I was part of the family. And I mean, it was a ball. It was seven days. Yeah, eleven days or something. And we partied. We had parties going every day, some place. That was my first experience with that. And it was it was fascinating and a lot of fun and a lot of nice kids. And that was year I was hanging out with guys my own age and gals my own age. And it was pretty much the elite class in Santa Cruz, the youth and beautiful women and good dancers and good food. And I was in their homes and it was really very interesting, very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, uh, where were you when Kennedy was assassinated?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was living in Santa Cruz and that was another job I made. I got a job organizing the USIS library. So I was helping organize that and I did some English teaching, but not much. And I was living in Santa Cruz and I heard it on the radio in Spanish. And they kept repeating it, as they would a news notice like that and repeating it. And my mind refused to hear what it was saying. And finally it came through what they were saying. And I ran out to find some other Americans who knew about it and heard about it and that when I. That was quite a thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was pretty traumatic."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.356076688074902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Memorable events? Well, carnival. I got involved with the carnival and a combasa in Santa Cruz with guys, gals my own age, and they just accepted me like I was part of the family. And I mean, it was a ball. It was seven days. Yeah, eleven days or something. And we partied. We had parties going every day, some place. That was my first experience with that. And it was it was fascinating and a lot of fun and a lot of nice kids. And that was year I was hanging out with guys my own age and gals my own age. And it was pretty much the elite class in Santa Cruz, the youth and beautiful women and good dancers and good food. And I was in their homes and it was really very interesting, very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, uh, where were you when Kennedy was assassinated?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was living in Santa Cruz and that was another job I made. I got a job organizing the USIS library. So I was helping organize that and I did some English teaching, but not much. And I was living in Santa Cruz and I heard it on the radio in Spanish. And they kept repeating it, as they would a news notice like that and repeating it. And my mind refused to hear what it was saying. And finally it came through what they were saying. And I ran out to find some other Americans who knew about it and heard about it and that when I. That was quite a thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was pretty traumatic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty traumatic. Yeah, it was traumatic for me. And then there was a guy down there, he was in Bolivia III or something. His name was Reese. And I remember seeing him and I was kind of just shocked. And I said and he says he said something like, so what? I just looked at him and I said, you’re an idiot, you know. I never dealt with him again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I remember him, he was. That would not surprise me, that comment."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.728974097861002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was living in Santa Cruz and that was another job I made. I got a job organizing the USIS library. So I was helping organize that and I did some English teaching, but not much. And I was living in Santa Cruz and I heard it on the radio in Spanish. And they kept repeating it, as they would a news notice like that and repeating it. And my mind refused to hear what it was saying. And finally it came through what they were saying. And I ran out to find some other Americans who knew about it and heard about it and that when I. That was quite a thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was pretty traumatic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty traumatic. Yeah, it was traumatic for me. And then there was a guy down there, he was in Bolivia III or something. His name was Reese. And I remember seeing him and I was kind of just shocked. And I said and he says he said something like, so what? I just looked at him and I said, you’re an idiot, you know. I never dealt with him again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I remember him, he was. That would not surprise me, that comment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that, I mean, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so it sounds like you had a really varied experience down there and a lot of different things that you did."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.254415664290002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty traumatic. Yeah, it was traumatic for me. And then there was a guy down there, he was in Bolivia III or something. His name was Reese. And I remember seeing him and I was kind of just shocked. And I said and he says he said something like, so what? I just looked at him and I said, you’re an idiot, you know. I never dealt with him again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I remember him, he was. That would not surprise me, that comment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that, I mean, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so it sounds like you had a really varied experience down there and a lot of different things that you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you probably remember things I did that I don't remember, but, you know, because I hung out with you guys as much as anybody, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah, well, I remember the carnival in Santa Cruz, you know, blue paint."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.9493507381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that, I mean, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so it sounds like you had a really varied experience down there and a lot of different things that you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you probably remember things I did that I don't remember, but, you know, because I hung out with you guys as much as anybody, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah, well, I remember the carnival in Santa Cruz, you know, blue paint."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Water fights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my. So at the end of all this, what do you think, what did you take away from it, that that experience?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.610389709000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you probably remember things I did that I don't remember, but, you know, because I hung out with you guys as much as anybody, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah, well, I remember the carnival in Santa Cruz, you know, blue paint."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Water fights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my. So at the end of all this, what do you think, what did you take away from it, that that experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it ended up affecting a whole career because I've now been since then, I've been overseas for 25 years. I ended up in the Foreign Service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was really a life changing experience?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.90043301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Water fights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my. So at the end of all this, what do you think, what did you take away from it, that that experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it ended up affecting a whole career because I've now been since then, I've been overseas for 25 years. I ended up in the Foreign Service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was really a life changing experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you want something that's good for me, it really affected, you know, which direction I went. And I think it was just, you know, piqued my interest. I know that I became motivated to go back to school and to get a graduate education because I felt when I was in the Peace Corps that I really, as a young person down there, I didn't have anything to offer them. And I said, if I'm going to go back overseas and a career in any way, I need to prepare myself so that I have some skills that will make a contribution to the country that I'm in, because in the Peace Corps, I didn't have any skills make. So they'll relax and move, you know, do no harm. You know, I really believed it and for the most part tried to live by it. So I didn't do any harm, but I didn't do any good either. But when I went back, I went back to school with some motivation to learn skills and ended up with a Ph.D. in agricultural economics and got hired back, after three year tour in Vietnam, and then some time off to get rid of a wife, and etc. I went back to grad school, went back to work for USAID, and then went directly back overseas and stayed a whole career with AID over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me a little bit, when you got out of Peace Corps, you went to Vietnam, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.6341, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, refugees and farmers. Big programs, lots of responsibility. Very difficult situation. And it was a nasty area that I was in and, you know, I was lucky to get out of there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so talk about what you think you got out of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, certainly an appreciation for other cultures, I think, you know, growing up in California and growing up in a community that was half was 50 percent was Mexican-American. I grew up with that culture, but really didn't. You don't learn to appreciate them as much until I went to Latin America and then I developed a real love of Latin people and and that stayed with me. And but I think, you know, in terms of Bolivia itself, you know, Bolivia pretty much a basket case, except, I mean, it's got pockets of real wealth and be able to create it. But because of its large indigenous population and it's you know, it's always going to be one of the basket cases. And there are several that have served in Africa the same way, you know. Difficult to just see how they're going to, you know, really move, but I've been back a couple of times and, you know, Santa Cruz itself is a booming metropolis, you know, but Mineros where we were, Saavedra, nothing. Mineros. You know, in fact, the road bypassed Saavedra died a slow death when the road went around it because they paved it out so far. And Mineros, they put a sugarcane factory out there. Lots of drug dealers, you know, not a good start, you know, difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So one of the things that the goals of the Peace Corps was to provide technical assistance was requested to promote a better understanding of the U.S. and to promote better understanding of other peoples by Americans. So of those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, two of them, I think we did all right on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The better understanding of the U.S. and better understanding of other peoples by Americans?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.609999999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, two of them, I think we did all right on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The better understanding of the U.S. and better understanding of other peoples by Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we did pretty good there. I think on the technical assistance side, but there are you know, there are real exceptions to that. Some people, you know, really provided excellent technical services, you guys that were nurses or, you know, had skills to offer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I figured out years ago that I was prepared to do the job they wanted me to do. Fifteen years later, I was prepared to do it, but there I just did the best I could. OK, so tell me?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you remember taking that jeep tonight with that lady to the hospital in Santa Cruz? She was pregnant, had the baby. Didn’t we come and pick you up?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I don't remember. I think I was already in Santa Cruz. Maybe then because I went to Santa Cruz."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think we did pretty good there. I think on the technical assistance side, but there are you know, there are real exceptions to that. Some people, you know, really provided excellent technical services, you guys that were nurses or, you know, had skills to offer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I figured out years ago that I was prepared to do the job they wanted me to do. Fifteen years later, I was prepared to do it, but there I just did the best I could. OK, so tell me?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you remember taking that jeep tonight with that lady to the hospital in Santa Cruz? She was pregnant, had the baby. Didn’t we come and pick you up?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I don't remember. I think I was already in Santa Cruz. Maybe then because I went to Santa Cruz."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a harrowing trip all the way in with a lady having a baby in the back of the jeep. And we got her in there. Lunelle was in there, Myrtis was in there. But she was a teacher at that school, and then we just pushed her in at like the swinging doors of the emergency room and like two minuets later this nurse comes out and hands me this baby. She assumed it was mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh well! So tell me a little bit about the kinds of things you did after you got out. You said you worked for the USAID for 25 years. And were you doing economic development?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you remember taking that jeep tonight with that lady to the hospital in Santa Cruz? She was pregnant, had the baby. Didn’t we come and pick you up?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I don't remember. I think I was already in Santa Cruz. Maybe then because I went to Santa Cruz."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a harrowing trip all the way in with a lady having a baby in the back of the jeep. And we got her in there. Lunelle was in there, Myrtis was in there. But she was a teacher at that school, and then we just pushed her in at like the swinging doors of the emergency room and like two minuets later this nurse comes out and hands me this baby. She assumed it was mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh well! So tell me a little bit about the kinds of things you did after you got out. You said you worked for the USAID for 25 years. And were you doing economic development?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. When I first started out we were programing. Well, the first assignment that I had after this, after Vietnam, but it was Costa Rica and there we were doing alternative crops and trying to diversify away from bananas and coffee and very successfully started growing every kind of spice known. And it's quite an industry now in Costa Rica. And that was started really by the guy that I went to work for down there. He was a he was a horticulturalist and he started that project. He pushed it forward. But what we ended up doing is employees of AID were writing the documents that move the money. So we did a lot of analysis of the economy, a lot of analysis of the of the implementation capabilities of the government, and then trying to plug in where we could use our technical assistance or scholarships to train people to implement those programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you could have done that job without the Peace Corps experience?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00268:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. When I first started out we were programing. Well, the first assignment that I had after this, after Vietnam, but it was Costa Rica and there we were doing alternative crops and trying to diversify away from bananas and coffee and very successfully started growing every kind of spice known. And it's quite an industry now in Costa Rica. And that was started really by the guy that I went to work for down there. He was a he was a horticulturalist and he started that project. He pushed it forward. But what we ended up doing is employees of AID were writing the documents that move the money. So we did a lot of analysis of the economy, a lot of analysis of the of the implementation capabilities of the government, and then trying to plug in where we could use our technical assistance or scholarships to train people to implement those programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you could have done that job without the Peace Corps experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, yeah, I could’ve but probably. I don't know. I just. Yeah, I mean, Peace Corps and I didn't think and by the time I got back there is a PhD and I was rather analytical, you know, in terms of data and the scope of what I was the ability to analyze problems and to develop solutions for them was much, much different. I think as a volunteer, I wouldn't have had a clue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no, no, no. But I'm thinking later on in your career that where you ended up spending so much time overseas, if being in the Peace Corps had facilitated your being able to get take that trajectory."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, probably started as you had empathy for the people you were working for, but you had to have that or you wouldn't have been in that business pretty much. I don’t know if Peace Corps even had that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so do you have any other things that you want to want to mention?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00555:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 69.12237585416646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The NASA team had a team leader, and he dealt with the senior officers of the ship. All of the NASA team, whether there were two of us on a secondary ship or thirty of us on a primary ship, would be treated as an officer, in that our quarters would be in officers’ country. We dined in the officers’ mess. But clearly we operated within the protocol of the military chain of command. They tried to stay out of our way when we were doing something that was very specific to our job and didn’t involve military people. But when we were working as a team, we went through the normal chain of command; with the swimmers. Our senior training person would work with the officer in charge of the swimmers. So it was a very regimented way of dealing in a military environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned last time it was the same ship for Apollo 11 and then again with [Apollo] 12. Did you work with the same divers and the same personnel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did on [Apollo] 11 and 12. It was the same UDT team that recovered the spacecraft, so, of course, the second time it was easier. It was the same deck officer that was responsible for our accommodations in the hangar deck, and it was the same captain of the ship. It was Captain [Carl J.] Seiberlich on 11 and 12. He just recently passed away, and some of the folks that were on Apollo 11 and 12 actually went to his memorial service at Arlington [National Cemetery, Arlington, Virginia]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the relationship while you were working with the DoD personnel, obviously you got close to them, living in close quarters for two or three weeks at a time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and oftentimes we made friends that became lifelong friends from those events. I still keep track of a couple of the young officers that were on board ship when I was. Of course, they’re not young anymore. They’re in their sixties just like I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being from Texas, when you first started in Landing and Recovery, was this the first time you were exposed to being on ships and boats and that sort of thing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00555:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 74.58041761574052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did on [Apollo] 11 and 12. It was the same UDT team that recovered the spacecraft, so, of course, the second time it was easier. It was the same deck officer that was responsible for our accommodations in the hangar deck, and it was the same captain of the ship. It was Captain [Carl J.] Seiberlich on 11 and 12. He just recently passed away, and some of the folks that were on Apollo 11 and 12 actually went to his memorial service at Arlington [National Cemetery, Arlington, Virginia]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the relationship while you were working with the DoD personnel, obviously you got close to them, living in close quarters for two or three weeks at a time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and oftentimes we made friends that became lifelong friends from those events. I still keep track of a couple of the young officers that were on board ship when I was. Of course, they’re not young anymore. They’re in their sixties just like I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being from Texas, when you first started in Landing and Recovery, was this the first time you were exposed to being on ships and boats and that sort of thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been on small boats. I’d been out in the Gulf [of Mexico] fishing often with my father. But I had never been on a large ship at all, and so it was just a great adventure for a twenty-three-year-old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just wanted to ask a question about when you first joined NASA. There was something in some of the research [about] qualification tests for recovery engineers. Back in the late sixties when you joined, you went to Carswell Air Force Base in Fort Worth [Texas] for a high-altitude chamber qualification test?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00555:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 78.42268623971168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and oftentimes we made friends that became lifelong friends from those events. I still keep track of a couple of the young officers that were on board ship when I was. Of course, they’re not young anymore. They’re in their sixties just like I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being from Texas, when you first started in Landing and Recovery, was this the first time you were exposed to being on ships and boats and that sort of thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been on small boats. I’d been out in the Gulf [of Mexico] fishing often with my father. But I had never been on a large ship at all, and so it was just a great adventure for a twenty-three-year-old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just wanted to ask a question about when you first joined NASA. There was something in some of the research [about] qualification tests for recovery engineers. Back in the late sixties when you joined, you went to Carswell Air Force Base in Fort Worth [Texas] for a high-altitude chamber qualification test?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, by the time I came on board in 1967, we had an altitude chamber here at NASA. It had been installed at NASA. So I didn’t go to the one at Carswell. I did my altitude chamber runs here at JSC [Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas].\\n\\n But the early folks did, and that was just to—when we were going to fly on military aircraft, there was a requirement to understand high altitude or relatively high altitude hypoxia event, if you had a depressurization of the aircraft. It’s not like an airliner where the little oxygen mask flips down. You had to take some specific action to get to where there was a walk-around bottle to breathe, or you were going to be unconscious when they got down to altitude. Of course, you’d probably revive. But we all went through that training, because we were going to be flying on military aircraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you’d like, let’s move on to Apollo 13 and talk about your assignment for that mission and if you were on a ship, and, then, of course, after the accident and what role you played during that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00555:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 57.31332179294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have some involvement in the Skylab software. Most of that Skylab software development was a Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama] activity, not a JSC activity. But we had a number of interfaces between the Command Module software and the Station for flight control system. So we did a lot of simulating working those interfaces when they were trying to speed up the development. But I was not a part of that development team at all, other than the fact that we simmed with it and figured out what wasn’t working and what was working."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any involvement during SMEAT [Skylab Medical Experiments Altitude Test]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, none at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you would be there for the rendezvous and then you would go away and then come back every once in a while. What were you doing in between, on those times when you weren’t on duty in the Control Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Typical office work; following the mission and then working on planning for the next mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything about Skylab that you’d like to mention that we haven’t talked about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00555:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 61.459246436600004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, none at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you would be there for the rendezvous and then you would go away and then come back every once in a while. What were you doing in between, on those times when you weren’t on duty in the Control Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Typical office work; following the mission and then working on planning for the next mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything about Skylab that you’d like to mention that we haven’t talked about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was interesting, quite interesting for me. I had gotten married just before we started Skylab. My wife worked at NASA, and she was one of the teleprinter operators for Skylab, the person that put together the messages and shipped them up. Skylab was the first mission that we had that we had like a teleprinter. It was not as good as a fax machine, but it was how we communicated with data, written word, with the crew. It always seemed like we were—when I was doing shift work in the Control Center on the Command Module, she was always on a different shift, and so several weeks in a row we’d kind of pass in the night as we were working odd shifts. It made me absolutely certain I did not want to be a shift worker forever, for long period of times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it could be a little difficult on a marriage even after you’ve been married a while."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00555:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 66.065829374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Typical office work; following the mission and then working on planning for the next mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything about Skylab that you’d like to mention that we haven’t talked about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was interesting, quite interesting for me. I had gotten married just before we started Skylab. My wife worked at NASA, and she was one of the teleprinter operators for Skylab, the person that put together the messages and shipped them up. Skylab was the first mission that we had that we had like a teleprinter. It was not as good as a fax machine, but it was how we communicated with data, written word, with the crew. It always seemed like we were—when I was doing shift work in the Control Center on the Command Module, she was always on a different shift, and so several weeks in a row we’d kind of pass in the night as we were working odd shifts. It made me absolutely certain I did not want to be a shift worker forever, for long period of times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it could be a little difficult on a marriage even after you’ve been married a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. That’s right. But I guess the two most memorable things was the first manned flight with Pete [Charles Peter] Conrad [Jr.] and the work they did to save the Skylab vehicle, because it was wounded seriously during the ascent, losing one of the solar arrays. Without the incredible design team on the ground that built the solar heat shield and the work of Pete and his crew to get all that installed, we would not have had a Skylab mission. It was an amazing engineering feat, both on the ground and in space, to make all that happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you stay in that area? I think you said you stayed in it for Apollo-Soyuz, also. What were your duties during that time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00668:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 39.18470669128578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first question is, tell us a little bit about the position that you held when you got started in the program and what your responsibilities are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we started the program?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you started in the program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my first exposure to the program was back in 1992, when we first began working with the Russians. I was involved working with Dick [Richard O.] Covey and Steve Nagel in the astronaut office in dealing with some of the issues that were starting to come up, and making some plans for how we would work together in the future.\\n\\n My first trip to Russia was in January of 1993 as a part of the Operations Working Group, to go over and start planning the rendezvous and docking of the shuttle and the Mir. Then I was involved in training for my most recent mission in September of '93, so I was out of it for a little while.\\n\\n But a few months after I came back from that mission, I was asked to head up the JSC Russian Project Office, which began activities in May of 1994. I worked in that position for a few months until the Phase 1 office was established, led by Tommy Holloway, and I was named as his deputy in the summer of 1994. I guess my first official activities began in about September of that year with the Team Zero meeting in Moscow and activities with the Russians.\\n\\n I just continued from there. I continued as the deputy for the program through August of 1995, when Tommy was named as the shuttle program director and I was the acting director for Phase 1 for a while. Then I was director by the end of that year, and I've been in that position since then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about your shuttle flight. Do you think that background, or the work you did in space station, prepared you for this job?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00668:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 49.954625296424624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was pretty easy in a lot of ways. There was a little bit of checking each other out, you know, when you first met, to see who you were and what your background was and how good you were, but that's normal in that world. But I found there to be a lot of mutual professional respect for each other and the ability to communicate about things. A lot of common experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that helpful in the Russian negotiations, or did you have to kind of develop a style for negotiating with the Russians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was helpful to a certain extent with some people, like General [Yuri] Glaskov or [Nikolai M.] Budarin or [Anatoly Y.] Solovyev, folks who were cosmonauts. But the majority of people we worked with were not cosmonauts. Their cosmonauts typically do not rise in management as frequently as ours, plus they don't have as many as we have astronauts. So there were a few people in key positions that I hit it off with real well, but I also had to learn a lot about negotiating internationally with the Russians specifically in dealing with all levels of management and all types of people. It's not unlike any similar job on this side; it's just in a different language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They seemed to enjoy negotiating. Did you come to that level where you enjoy doing it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I enjoy it also, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was involved in bringing Phase 1 together, if we go back to the history at whatever level it might be, the congressional level, executive level, whatever you'd like to talk about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 42.51513262571494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I came to work for NASA in 1942 [Sjoberg began working with NACA in 1942. NACA was incorporated into the newly formed NASA in 1958]. It was the year I had just gotten out of college with a bachelor’s degree in aeronautical engineering. I had planned to follow that line of work for a long time. With NASA, of course everybody who studies aeronautical engineering gets to know NASA through their technical work throughout their education. A lot of NASA reports you use, that you’re required to use. That’s the way I had heard about NASA and became familiar with their work. They were interviewing at many different colleges in 1942, the year I got out of school. And I went to work for them that way. I interviewed for them that year and I worked there until I retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first job I had was at Langley Field in Virginia in the Flight Research Division. And that was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working on stability control work of airplanes. Not long before that NASA had built up some criteria for flying qualities for airplanes. And that was a hard job in that one of our main jobs in that Flight Research Division was to set out the flying quality of a whole different bunch of types of airplanes. It was just about all of the airplanes that flew in the World War II. We were busy with those at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then after the war, what were you doing after the war?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 35.016814028572156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first job I had was at Langley Field in Virginia in the Flight Research Division. And that was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working on stability control work of airplanes. Not long before that NASA had built up some criteria for flying qualities for airplanes. And that was a hard job in that one of our main jobs in that Flight Research Division was to set out the flying quality of a whole different bunch of types of airplanes. It was just about all of the airplanes that flew in the World War II. We were busy with those at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then after the war, what were you doing after the war?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I continued working. At the time I had a couple of interruptions, I left Langley in, I think it was, 1946. I went to back work for the Douglas Aircraft Company in Santa Monica California for a year. Then I went back to Langley working in the same division. And it was about 1947 I was asked to go out to Edwards Air Force Base to use a project in flight testing. One of the X airplanes, the D-558 Phase II. We were out there for about a year while we did that. Then I went back again to Langley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when did you leave Langley? You went back in the same division?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 22, "return_to_go": 30.018682253969065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working on stability control work of airplanes. Not long before that NASA had built up some criteria for flying qualities for airplanes. And that was a hard job in that one of our main jobs in that Flight Research Division was to set out the flying quality of a whole different bunch of types of airplanes. It was just about all of the airplanes that flew in the World War II. We were busy with those at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then after the war, what were you doing after the war?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I continued working. At the time I had a couple of interruptions, I left Langley in, I think it was, 1946. I went to back work for the Douglas Aircraft Company in Santa Monica California for a year. Then I went back to Langley working in the same division. And it was about 1947 I was asked to go out to Edwards Air Force Base to use a project in flight testing. One of the X airplanes, the D-558 Phase II. We were out there for about a year while we did that. Then I went back again to Langley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when did you leave Langley? You went back in the same division?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same division, Flight Research work. I left Langley again, not until 1962 when the group that was formed at Langley, called the Space Task Group [STG]. That group was the nucleus of us now at the Johnson Space Center. NASA started the Johnson Space Center [originally named Manned Spacecraft Center] in Houston in 1962."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your initial jobs here? Where did you first work when you came to Houston in 1962?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.899607720949462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same division, Flight Research work. I left Langley again, not until 1962 when the group that was formed at Langley, called the Space Task Group [STG]. That group was the nucleus of us now at the Johnson Space Center. NASA started the Johnson Space Center [originally named Manned Spacecraft Center] in Houston in 1962."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your initial jobs here? Where did you first work when you came to Houston in 1962?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a job…I worked in…I’ll try to remember the names. I worked for the Flight Operations Division when I came to Houston. Their job of course was to do all of the planning of the space flights. And that’s where I spent most of my time in Houston working in Flight Operations. Of course, I had to. The first control center we used for manned space flight was at Cape Kennedy [Cape Canaveral, Florida later renamed Kennedy Space Center]. Then we moved to Houston. The decision was made to have that center in Houston. Well from 1942 on for several years, it was designed and implemented. Then, it came into use in 1944. I think it was in 19…The control center in Houston was first used in ‘44 or ‘45 [Houston Mission Control was first used in 1965 with Gemini III and IV]. I think it was in ’44, but I’m not absolutely sure about that. You can check on that easily. Then about…I’m trying to remember. It was the Flight Research Division, really, that controlled the flight control activity through all of the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo flights. I think it was 1972 that Chris [Christopher C.] Kraft [Jr.] was made Director of the Center and he asked me to be his deputy. So that’s when I moved from Flight Control to _____________."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going back to Mercury, when you were still stationed officially, at Langely, you did work on the Control Center in Mercury on the Cape?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I never really worked there. I never did have a job there. I spent some time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what were you doing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.99956413438829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a job…I worked in…I’ll try to remember the names. I worked for the Flight Operations Division when I came to Houston. Their job of course was to do all of the planning of the space flights. And that’s where I spent most of my time in Houston working in Flight Operations. Of course, I had to. The first control center we used for manned space flight was at Cape Kennedy [Cape Canaveral, Florida later renamed Kennedy Space Center]. Then we moved to Houston. The decision was made to have that center in Houston. Well from 1942 on for several years, it was designed and implemented. Then, it came into use in 1944. I think it was in 19…The control center in Houston was first used in ‘44 or ‘45 [Houston Mission Control was first used in 1965 with Gemini III and IV]. I think it was in ’44, but I’m not absolutely sure about that. You can check on that easily. Then about…I’m trying to remember. It was the Flight Research Division, really, that controlled the flight control activity through all of the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo flights. I think it was 1972 that Chris [Christopher C.] Kraft [Jr.] was made Director of the Center and he asked me to be his deputy. So that’s when I moved from Flight Control to _____________."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going back to Mercury, when you were still stationed officially, at Langely, you did work on the Control Center in Mercury on the Cape?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I never really worked there. I never did have a job there. I spent some time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what were you doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learning about space flight. You see, this was new to us too. We spent a lot of time there developing the procedures and the mission rules, all that kind of thing, that goes into each flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also understand that in Gemini, you were a part of the Gemini Planning Organization."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.110626815986988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I never really worked there. I never did have a job there. I spent some time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what were you doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learning about space flight. You see, this was new to us too. We spent a lot of time there developing the procedures and the mission rules, all that kind of thing, that goes into each flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also understand that in Gemini, you were a part of the Gemini Planning Organization."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I worked from Gemini 2 through all of the flights. It was a busy time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you remember about that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.011807573318876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learning about space flight. You see, this was new to us too. We spent a lot of time there developing the procedures and the mission rules, all that kind of thing, that goes into each flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also understand that in Gemini, you were a part of the Gemini Planning Organization."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I worked from Gemini 2 through all of the flights. It was a busy time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you remember about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I remember most about it were the people involved. A bunch I thought were just outstanding people. Chris Kraft was probably the most outstanding. Of course, Max [Maxime A. Faget] did an awful lot of work on the space craft in those days getting central ideas. That was very interesting, very satisfying work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular missions stand out?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.013119525909863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I worked from Gemini 2 through all of the flights. It was a busy time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you remember about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I remember most about it were the people involved. A bunch I thought were just outstanding people. Chris Kraft was probably the most outstanding. Of course, Max [Maxime A. Faget] did an awful lot of work on the space craft in those days getting central ideas. That was very interesting, very satisfying work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular missions stand out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Gemini program’s most outstanding mission…well, they were all very interesting. There were new things on every flight. Should have written them down then because I’m awfully confused now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you see as the major accomplishments that came out of the Gemini Program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.12568836212207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I remember most about it were the people involved. A bunch I thought were just outstanding people. Chris Kraft was probably the most outstanding. Of course, Max [Maxime A. Faget] did an awful lot of work on the space craft in those days getting central ideas. That was very interesting, very satisfying work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular missions stand out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Gemini program’s most outstanding mission…well, they were all very interesting. There were new things on every flight. Should have written them down then because I’m awfully confused now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you see as the major accomplishments that came out of the Gemini Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The experience of manned space flight and how to operate. How they can be designed. I don’t think we could have gone to the moon without it, without that background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you transitioned from Gemini to Apollo, how do you see that flight operations changed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.028542624580076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Gemini program’s most outstanding mission…well, they were all very interesting. There were new things on every flight. Should have written them down then because I’m awfully confused now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you see as the major accomplishments that came out of the Gemini Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The experience of manned space flight and how to operate. How they can be designed. I don’t think we could have gone to the moon without it, without that background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you transitioned from Gemini to Apollo, how do you see that flight operations changed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think there were a great deal of changes in flight operations. I think what we learned from Gemini we applied for Apollo, it was a good background for that. But, I didn’t see any changes. There were a lot of new things to work on from Gemini to Apollo because of the distances involved. After all, on Gemini, we were always on earth orbit so you could return relatively quickly. Once you commit to a lunar flight there are only so many days before you can get back to earth. That was mostly with planning the flights and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the early flights the decision was made to send Apollo 8 to the moon. Were you surprised by that decision?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.698380693977862, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The experience of manned space flight and how to operate. How they can be designed. I don’t think we could have gone to the moon without it, without that background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you transitioned from Gemini to Apollo, how do you see that flight operations changed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think there were a great deal of changes in flight operations. I think what we learned from Gemini we applied for Apollo, it was a good background for that. But, I didn’t see any changes. There were a lot of new things to work on from Gemini to Apollo because of the distances involved. After all, on Gemini, we were always on earth orbit so you could return relatively quickly. Once you commit to a lunar flight there are only so many days before you can get back to earth. That was mostly with planning the flights and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the early flights the decision was made to send Apollo 8 to the moon. Were you surprised by that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not nearly as surprised as the decision being made shortly after. One of the early Apollo flights [actually Alan B. Shepard's\\n\\n Freedom 7\\n\\n Mercury flight in 1961] it was, Mr. [President John F.] Kennedy announced that we were going to the moon. That was a lot more surprising."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that news received? Let’s talk about that for a second."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.442645215530957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think there were a great deal of changes in flight operations. I think what we learned from Gemini we applied for Apollo, it was a good background for that. But, I didn’t see any changes. There were a lot of new things to work on from Gemini to Apollo because of the distances involved. After all, on Gemini, we were always on earth orbit so you could return relatively quickly. Once you commit to a lunar flight there are only so many days before you can get back to earth. That was mostly with planning the flights and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the early flights the decision was made to send Apollo 8 to the moon. Were you surprised by that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not nearly as surprised as the decision being made shortly after. One of the early Apollo flights [actually Alan B. Shepard's\\n\\n Freedom 7\\n\\n Mercury flight in 1961] it was, Mr. [President John F.] Kennedy announced that we were going to the moon. That was a lot more surprising."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that news received? Let’s talk about that for a second."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think all of us were floored. It was such a change, such a challenge. It was such a surprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your team think you could accomplish it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.158494683923286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not nearly as surprised as the decision being made shortly after. One of the early Apollo flights [actually Alan B. Shepard's\\n\\n Freedom 7\\n\\n Mercury flight in 1961] it was, Mr. [President John F.] Kennedy announced that we were going to the moon. That was a lot more surprising."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that news received? Let’s talk about that for a second."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think all of us were floored. It was such a change, such a challenge. It was such a surprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your team think you could accomplish it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well after, I suppose, after working for a couple of years, you’re in a lot better position to judge. Most people thought at that time they could just work to get it done. I don’t think that the immediate reaction was “That’s good, we can go do it.” The more you do, the more you’ve got confidence in something like that because you learn how to do things. You don’t get caught and slow down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you see, did you see any changes in program management structure and interactions between centers as programs developed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.953882982136984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think all of us were floored. It was such a change, such a challenge. It was such a surprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your team think you could accomplish it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well after, I suppose, after working for a couple of years, you’re in a lot better position to judge. Most people thought at that time they could just work to get it done. I don’t think that the immediate reaction was “That’s good, we can go do it.” The more you do, the more you’ve got confidence in something like that because you learn how to do things. You don’t get caught and slow down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you see, did you see any changes in program management structure and interactions between centers as programs developed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could you repeat that please?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the programs moved from Kennedy to what is now Johnson Space Center and became much larger did you see other changes besides engineering changes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.726536646818872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well after, I suppose, after working for a couple of years, you’re in a lot better position to judge. Most people thought at that time they could just work to get it done. I don’t think that the immediate reaction was “That’s good, we can go do it.” The more you do, the more you’ve got confidence in something like that because you learn how to do things. You don’t get caught and slow down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you see, did you see any changes in program management structure and interactions between centers as programs developed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could you repeat that please?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the programs moved from Kennedy to what is now Johnson Space Center and became much larger did you see other changes besides engineering changes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. The program became a lot broader in terms of public interest. Education. Certainly in the early days of the space program had a big effect on technical education and became a lot more, it got a lot higher priority, I think, at most of the technical schools around the country. I think more people became interested in technical subjects. It was a lot of priority on that because…as for me, the only aspect would be the mission associated with space flight. The public affairs associated with it, all these changed greatly. Nothing was the same anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would be some examples? What are some examples of that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.585040718687635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could you repeat that please?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the programs moved from Kennedy to what is now Johnson Space Center and became much larger did you see other changes besides engineering changes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. The program became a lot broader in terms of public interest. Education. Certainly in the early days of the space program had a big effect on technical education and became a lot more, it got a lot higher priority, I think, at most of the technical schools around the country. I think more people became interested in technical subjects. It was a lot of priority on that because…as for me, the only aspect would be the mission associated with space flight. The public affairs associated with it, all these changed greatly. Nothing was the same anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would be some examples? What are some examples of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I gave you one—education. Certainly, you can see that nobody paid any attention to space medicine starting out in the program but now it has a lot of attention. It had something to do with, I’m sure, a big influence on the computer industry that was getting going at that time. There were many others that you can think of that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the differences in flight operations in the Gemini and Apollo era when the vast computing powers that these machines give us were not available?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.53893413187515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. The program became a lot broader in terms of public interest. Education. Certainly in the early days of the space program had a big effect on technical education and became a lot more, it got a lot higher priority, I think, at most of the technical schools around the country. I think more people became interested in technical subjects. It was a lot of priority on that because…as for me, the only aspect would be the mission associated with space flight. The public affairs associated with it, all these changed greatly. Nothing was the same anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would be some examples? What are some examples of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I gave you one—education. Certainly, you can see that nobody paid any attention to space medicine starting out in the program but now it has a lot of attention. It had something to do with, I’m sure, a big influence on the computer industry that was getting going at that time. There were many others that you can think of that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the differences in flight operations in the Gemini and Apollo era when the vast computing powers that these machines give us were not available?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Would you repeat that please?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. I mean, you can’t find a person today that barely knows what a slide rule is. We didn’t have the big computers in those days that could perform all of these calculations. Could you just describe how the operations were accomplished?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.598815702083499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I gave you one—education. Certainly, you can see that nobody paid any attention to space medicine starting out in the program but now it has a lot of attention. It had something to do with, I’m sure, a big influence on the computer industry that was getting going at that time. There were many others that you can think of that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the differences in flight operations in the Gemini and Apollo era when the vast computing powers that these machines give us were not available?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Would you repeat that please?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. I mean, you can’t find a person today that barely knows what a slide rule is. We didn’t have the big computers in those days that could perform all of these calculations. Could you just describe how the operations were accomplished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a good question. I think one thing that, it took a lot more people to develop a program for the computers and so on, and do a lot more testing. That’s a good question. I’d probably have to find a computer expert to talk to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the political climate changed during the Apollo missions and Apollo became less important apparently to the nation, was that visible to you working in the program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.665350780092776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Would you repeat that please?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. I mean, you can’t find a person today that barely knows what a slide rule is. We didn’t have the big computers in those days that could perform all of these calculations. Could you just describe how the operations were accomplished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a good question. I think one thing that, it took a lot more people to develop a program for the computers and so on, and do a lot more testing. That’s a good question. I’d probably have to find a computer expert to talk to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the political climate changed during the Apollo missions and Apollo became less important apparently to the nation, was that visible to you working in the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, sure it was. Because it affected your money and what you could do, what you couldn’t do. Because really, in the Apollo program every year at budget time, in the latter years of Apollo, it was a real rat race trying to figure out how you were going to get things done without enough money. At the end of it, it was quite dismal that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said when Dr. Kraft became head of the center and he asked you to be his deputy, it was one of those times, wasn’t it?\n\nWell, it was…the last few years of the Apollo program, I think it was in 1971 or ‘72, well things were good then. It wasn’t many years after that, that money became scarce.\n\nBy that time you were in the program, you had been cut off as the program manager?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.85038975565864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a good question. I think one thing that, it took a lot more people to develop a program for the computers and so on, and do a lot more testing. That’s a good question. I’d probably have to find a computer expert to talk to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the political climate changed during the Apollo missions and Apollo became less important apparently to the nation, was that visible to you working in the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, sure it was. Because it affected your money and what you could do, what you couldn’t do. Because really, in the Apollo program every year at budget time, in the latter years of Apollo, it was a real rat race trying to figure out how you were going to get things done without enough money. At the end of it, it was quite dismal that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said when Dr. Kraft became head of the center and he asked you to be his deputy, it was one of those times, wasn’t it?\n\nWell, it was…the last few years of the Apollo program, I think it was in 1971 or ‘72, well things were good then. It wasn’t many years after that, that money became scarce.\n\nBy that time you were in the program, you had been cut off as the program manager?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had been working for Dr. Kraft at that time. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did Dr. Kraft and you focus on during those first years?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.630110809455111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had been working for Dr. Kraft at that time. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did Dr. Kraft and you focus on during those first years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well we just continued the Apollo program. It was pretty well laid out at that time. Continued pretty much on the path I think it was going for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, then? It was the last Apollo flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nineteen seventy…I think if you consider ASTP [Apollo-Soyuz Test Project] that was 1975."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.70012312161679, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well we just continued the Apollo program. It was pretty well laid out at that time. Continued pretty much on the path I think it was going for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, then? It was the last Apollo flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nineteen seventy…I think if you consider ASTP [Apollo-Soyuz Test Project] that was 1975."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we did one for the Skylab program. When was that? About’76 or ’77? ’78, maybe [The Skylab flights were in 1973-1974]. That was something different because it was a long duration associated with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Skylab, were you involved in the decision to go with the dry workshop?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.88902569068532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, then? It was the last Apollo flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nineteen seventy…I think if you consider ASTP [Apollo-Soyuz Test Project] that was 1975."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we did one for the Skylab program. When was that? About’76 or ’77? ’78, maybe [The Skylab flights were in 1973-1974]. That was something different because it was a long duration associated with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Skylab, were you involved in the decision to go with the dry workshop?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I wasn’t, I should’ve been. I can’t remember exactly and direct…although I probably endorsed the decision when it was made. I don’t remember who would’ve done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With Space Station coming on line soon and working with Mir, this is the first time since the Skylab days that flight operations had involved long duration flights. What do you see as changes in the ways either that the Center operated or flight operations were conducted because of the long duration flights?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 12.098917434094801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we did one for the Skylab program. When was that? About’76 or ’77? ’78, maybe [The Skylab flights were in 1973-1974]. That was something different because it was a long duration associated with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Skylab, were you involved in the decision to go with the dry workshop?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I wasn’t, I should’ve been. I can’t remember exactly and direct…although I probably endorsed the decision when it was made. I don’t remember who would’ve done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With Space Station coming on line soon and working with Mir, this is the first time since the Skylab days that flight operations had involved long duration flights. What do you see as changes in the ways either that the Center operated or flight operations were conducted because of the long duration flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that there have been any drastic changes outright. Well, why don’t you interview George Abbey?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That does bring me to a couple of questions. In your career there were certainly a number of people that either influenced you greatly or which you think were the people who made a great and vast difference in the space program. Who would be those people on your list?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.7765749267720015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I wasn’t, I should’ve been. I can’t remember exactly and direct…although I probably endorsed the decision when it was made. I don’t remember who would’ve done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With Space Station coming on line soon and working with Mir, this is the first time since the Skylab days that flight operations had involved long duration flights. What do you see as changes in the ways either that the Center operated or flight operations were conducted because of the long duration flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that there have been any drastic changes outright. Well, why don’t you interview George Abbey?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That does bring me to a couple of questions. In your career there were certainly a number of people that either influenced you greatly or which you think were the people who made a great and vast difference in the space program. Who would be those people on your list?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Number one was Chris [Christopher C. Kraft, Jr.]. Not only did he have the technical ability, but he was what I call a real leader. He inspired people and developed the whole concept of flight control. He led as a flight director and I think he did an outstanding people job. It’s not what many people could have done. I think that Max [Maxime A. Faget] was outstanding. Some of the people I may mention, you may not even know. Bill Tindall [Howard W. Tindall, Jr.] was excellent. He was a _______________ and techniques. In the program office, I think Aaron Cohen, who you probably don’t know, was a real good young man. In the flight house, Glynn [S.] Lunney was outstanding. Arnie [Arnold] Aldrich, as far as I know, he’s still at Headquarters. I don’t know if you know him or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think he’s gone now."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.196194363080001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that there have been any drastic changes outright. Well, why don’t you interview George Abbey?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That does bring me to a couple of questions. In your career there were certainly a number of people that either influenced you greatly or which you think were the people who made a great and vast difference in the space program. Who would be those people on your list?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Number one was Chris [Christopher C. Kraft, Jr.]. Not only did he have the technical ability, but he was what I call a real leader. He inspired people and developed the whole concept of flight control. He led as a flight director and I think he did an outstanding people job. It’s not what many people could have done. I think that Max [Maxime A. Faget] was outstanding. Some of the people I may mention, you may not even know. Bill Tindall [Howard W. Tindall, Jr.] was excellent. He was a _______________ and techniques. In the program office, I think Aaron Cohen, who you probably don’t know, was a real good young man. In the flight house, Glynn [S.] Lunney was outstanding. Arnie [Arnold] Aldrich, as far as I know, he’s still at Headquarters. I don’t know if you know him or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think he’s gone now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gene [Eugene F.] Kranz has certainly done a good job for us. A real good job from a flight control standpoint. George M. Low is _________, certainly an outstanding man. Dr. [Robert R.] Gilruth was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When NASA was going to the moon, there was definitely this national mandate behind the human space flight program. The whole country was behind it. As that moved, as Apollo came to an end and moved into the shuttle and now into the 1990’s, that mandate doesn’t seem to be there. Why do you think that is?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.662438181200001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Number one was Chris [Christopher C. Kraft, Jr.]. Not only did he have the technical ability, but he was what I call a real leader. He inspired people and developed the whole concept of flight control. He led as a flight director and I think he did an outstanding people job. It’s not what many people could have done. I think that Max [Maxime A. Faget] was outstanding. Some of the people I may mention, you may not even know. Bill Tindall [Howard W. Tindall, Jr.] was excellent. He was a _______________ and techniques. In the program office, I think Aaron Cohen, who you probably don’t know, was a real good young man. In the flight house, Glynn [S.] Lunney was outstanding. Arnie [Arnold] Aldrich, as far as I know, he’s still at Headquarters. I don’t know if you know him or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think he’s gone now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gene [Eugene F.] Kranz has certainly done a good job for us. A real good job from a flight control standpoint. George M. Low is _________, certainly an outstanding man. Dr. [Robert R.] Gilruth was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When NASA was going to the moon, there was definitely this national mandate behind the human space flight program. The whole country was behind it. As that moved, as Apollo came to an end and moved into the shuttle and now into the 1990’s, that mandate doesn’t seem to be there. Why do you think that is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was inevitable. I mean, going to the moon was such a feat, that a lot of other things seem rather mundane after that to a lot of people. It’s still effective. The whole space flight program has affected the civilization of the world. I think one of the first things people want is to do it the first time once and that’s basically it. I’d like to ask you that question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, after we’re finished. How would you recommend that NASA handle this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.180486868000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gene [Eugene F.] Kranz has certainly done a good job for us. A real good job from a flight control standpoint. George M. Low is _________, certainly an outstanding man. Dr. [Robert R.] Gilruth was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When NASA was going to the moon, there was definitely this national mandate behind the human space flight program. The whole country was behind it. As that moved, as Apollo came to an end and moved into the shuttle and now into the 1990’s, that mandate doesn’t seem to be there. Why do you think that is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was inevitable. I mean, going to the moon was such a feat, that a lot of other things seem rather mundane after that to a lot of people. It’s still effective. The whole space flight program has affected the civilization of the world. I think one of the first things people want is to do it the first time once and that’s basically it. I’d like to ask you that question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, after we’re finished. How would you recommend that NASA handle this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Given the things…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, given that you can only do it first once and that some people believe that the relevance is no longer there. What would you recommend?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.756096520000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was inevitable. I mean, going to the moon was such a feat, that a lot of other things seem rather mundane after that to a lot of people. It’s still effective. The whole space flight program has affected the civilization of the world. I think one of the first things people want is to do it the first time once and that’s basically it. I’d like to ask you that question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, after we’re finished. How would you recommend that NASA handle this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Given the things…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, given that you can only do it first once and that some people believe that the relevance is no longer there. What would you recommend?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure that it makes a hell of a lot of difference. I think that the world will go on and I think that we’ll want to learn things, we’re going to want to discover things. That’s still a major goal of the civilization of the world. I think it will continue to be. And then you’re saying of course, that a lot of people don’t think that you need a program at all. You can say that about most everything. Save money, save money and save money. Then what do you do? I don’t know if that’s an answer or not, but that seems to be the way that it is. There’s not much NASA or anyone else can do about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The recent contract with United Space Alliance doing parts of the shuttle program, Mr. [Daniel] Goldin is pushing toward privatizing some of these functions. How do you see that push?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.395662800000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Given the things…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, given that you can only do it first once and that some people believe that the relevance is no longer there. What would you recommend?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure that it makes a hell of a lot of difference. I think that the world will go on and I think that we’ll want to learn things, we’re going to want to discover things. That’s still a major goal of the civilization of the world. I think it will continue to be. And then you’re saying of course, that a lot of people don’t think that you need a program at all. You can say that about most everything. Save money, save money and save money. Then what do you do? I don’t know if that’s an answer or not, but that seems to be the way that it is. There’s not much NASA or anyone else can do about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The recent contract with United Space Alliance doing parts of the shuttle program, Mr. [Daniel] Goldin is pushing toward privatizing some of these functions. How do you see that push?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it’s plain and simple. Try to save money, do it a little cheaper. I don’t get much of a thrill out of that. I don’t think that we better, I don’t think so. I don’t think it will be as good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do, or you do not?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.106292000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure that it makes a hell of a lot of difference. I think that the world will go on and I think that we’ll want to learn things, we’re going to want to discover things. That’s still a major goal of the civilization of the world. I think it will continue to be. And then you’re saying of course, that a lot of people don’t think that you need a program at all. You can say that about most everything. Save money, save money and save money. Then what do you do? I don’t know if that’s an answer or not, but that seems to be the way that it is. There’s not much NASA or anyone else can do about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The recent contract with United Space Alliance doing parts of the shuttle program, Mr. [Daniel] Goldin is pushing toward privatizing some of these functions. How do you see that push?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it’s plain and simple. Try to save money, do it a little cheaper. I don’t get much of a thrill out of that. I don’t think that we better, I don’t think so. I don’t think it will be as good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do, or you do not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why is that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.895880000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it’s plain and simple. Try to save money, do it a little cheaper. I don’t get much of a thrill out of that. I don’t think that we better, I don’t think so. I don’t think it will be as good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do, or you do not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You won’t get that far without getting as many dedicated people as NASA has. You just won’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the Space Station is being constructed over the next few years, as you mentioned, with the new push in space medicine, where do you think NASA should adjust its funds beyond that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.773200000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You won’t get that far without getting as many dedicated people as NASA has. You just won’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the Space Station is being constructed over the next few years, as you mentioned, with the new push in space medicine, where do you think NASA should adjust its funds beyond that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure that I understand your question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In addition to Space Station, where do you think NASA should be placing an emphasis?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.748000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You won’t get that far without getting as many dedicated people as NASA has. You just won’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the Space Station is being constructed over the next few years, as you mentioned, with the new push in space medicine, where do you think NASA should adjust its funds beyond that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure that I understand your question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In addition to Space Station, where do you think NASA should be placing an emphasis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I suppose what they ought to do is research in the things that space flight can do for you. Or the environment that you can create, that kind of thing. And exploration, I think, is the ultimate thing, but they kind of go hand in hand. After all, the inevitable thing that you’re looking for here is, I guess, are there any other people on the planets somewhere, or something like that. So, I think it is, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of all the tasks or positions which you’ve held in NASA, which one means the most to you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.72, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure that I understand your question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In addition to Space Station, where do you think NASA should be placing an emphasis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I suppose what they ought to do is research in the things that space flight can do for you. Or the environment that you can create, that kind of thing. And exploration, I think, is the ultimate thing, but they kind of go hand in hand. After all, the inevitable thing that you’re looking for here is, I guess, are there any other people on the planets somewhere, or something like that. So, I think it is, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of all the tasks or positions which you’ve held in NASA, which one means the most to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was being the Deputy Director. I got a lot of satisfaction from that. I think I did some good. I was working for an outstanding man, then too. That always makes it nice. [???In memory of???] George [W. S.] Abbey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you have to do that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I suppose what they ought to do is research in the things that space flight can do for you. Or the environment that you can create, that kind of thing. And exploration, I think, is the ultimate thing, but they kind of go hand in hand. After all, the inevitable thing that you’re looking for here is, I guess, are there any other people on the planets somewhere, or something like that. So, I think it is, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of all the tasks or positions which you’ve held in NASA, which one means the most to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was being the Deputy Director. I got a lot of satisfaction from that. I think I did some good. I was working for an outstanding man, then too. That always makes it nice. [???In memory of???] George [W. S.] Abbey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you have to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about Mr. Abbey."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 10.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about Mr. Abbey."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you want to know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know if I know that much about him. He’s a good friend. He likes to catch salmon. He’s got a good friend up in Seattle or Westport, Washington who is a sports fisherman. He likes to get up to Seattle to see him. Well, I’ll tell you about George Abbey, but you can talk to him and ask him yourself. He’ll tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think so."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00558:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you want to know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know if I know that much about him. He’s a good friend. He likes to catch salmon. He’s got a good friend up in Seattle or Westport, Washington who is a sports fisherman. He likes to get up to Seattle to see him. Well, I’ll tell you about George Abbey, but you can talk to him and ask him yourself. He’ll tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This area was nice when I first moved here you know. Not many places to live when I first got here, around. Lots. Johnny [John H.] Glenn [Jr.] lived half a block over here. Wally [Walter M.] Schirra [Jr.] was next door. And next door to him was [Virgil I. “Gus”] Grissom. Next door to Glenn was [M. Scott] Carpenter. [L. Gordon] Cooper [Jr.] lived across the lake here. Deke [Donald K. Slayton] lived over in Friendswood. And Alan [B.] Shepard [Jr.] lived in town. So it was full of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like living in the neighborhood with astronauts?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00468:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 11.86, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, the team that we built, and I can’t say it’s me. But, you know, I had complete confidence in the NASA lab and contractor people on the team. Now, we had a few that didn’t produce, but as an overall, we had a test team that I would put up against anyone. If somebody would say they’re going to come in [to WSTF labs] on a tour of the lab—I would just be an observer —because I didn’t do it [the tours by myself]. I would give a little introduction, and I’d say [to the team], “Okay. You do this, and you do that, and you tell them what you’re doing and why you think it’s important,” and they’d just blow the visitor’s socks off because the team members were so excited about what they were doing. [Some of the] people who came, they were [from] JSC, just kind of dull [unmotivated], you know, management type people. They’d come down here, and I had more than one of them come up and say, “You know, your team has reinvigorated me. I’m going back with a new attitude.”\\n\\n Now, that makes you feel—that’s accomplishment to me, which was not rewarding with external praise from local Management—but you don’t have to Have that You get your rewards from your little team, and that’s what we had Going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a great way to work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s great. Yes, we just did great. We had more fun. You go to them today, and they’ll reminisce. “Boy, we had it going, didn’t we?” [Laughs] Yes, we did. (Refer to\\n\\n Photo A-57\\n\\n .)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At this time I’m going to ask Jennifer if she has any questions. Do you have anything for Mr. Pippen?\n\nI just had one quick question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about the relationship between White Sands Test Facility and New Mexico State University [Las Cruces, New Mexico]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00753:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not encouraged right now. I have a son who's a medical doctor, I have a son who's an engineer, and I advise them to go into telecommunications or medical science. It's not like it was when I came. When I came out of engineering school, the place to go was the Space Program. My personal opinion is that there are more exciting futures for an engineer for the next 20 years than the Space Program. Maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong. But if an engineer came to me and said, \"Where's the place to work in the next 20 years?\" I'd probably direct him to medical research or telecommunications. Hopefully I'm wrong, but that's the way I see the future. That's not negative about anybody at the Agency, I'm just talking about the political climate. Maybe energy engineering if it exists in the next 20 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked in so many different areas. What would you consider maybe the best lesson or the hardest lesson during that career that stayed with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are a lot of lessons that you learn over that long a period of time. I really can't identify one right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we close, I wanted you to have a chance to look at your notes. I know you brought some things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All I did was I took your questions and just put down some notes. I think we've covered most of that. Test before you fly, we talked about that. Listen to the hardware, we talked about that. Make an appropriate upfront investment, we've talked about that. Don't cut corners on design and development tests, we talked about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you can think of that you'd like to add about sound practices or lessons learned, or planning, management? Any other thoughts before we close out for the day?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00753:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are a lot of lessons that you learn over that long a period of time. I really can't identify one right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we close, I wanted you to have a chance to look at your notes. I know you brought some things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All I did was I took your questions and just put down some notes. I think we've covered most of that. Test before you fly, we talked about that. Listen to the hardware, we talked about that. Make an appropriate upfront investment, we've talked about that. Don't cut corners on design and development tests, we talked about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you can think of that you'd like to add about sound practices or lessons learned, or planning, management? Any other thoughts before we close out for the day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing I'd say, and it's the same thing I've said, but I'll try to summarize it—make sure you understand the program up front in terms of requirements. Make sure there's adequate schedule for doing a good job of design, development, test. It may be impractical in today's environment, but if possible, lay out a reasonable schedule and don't change it, or change it as little as possible. Those are very important parameters for a successful program, in my opinion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are good ones. So thank you. I appreciate it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00173:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.86, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you choose to leave when you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could see the flight control role getting more routine and not as [much new] development. The budgets were getting cut back. There was very little of this exploration kind of mind-set that was getting funded. There were people working that kind of thing and trying to get support for Mars missions and things of that sort, but the budgets just weren't going to support it. It was getting routine enough that it just wasn't that challenging to me anymore.\\n\\n I saw an opportunity to get involved in developing—IBM offered me a job to work on their proposal for the Air Force. The Air Force was going to build their own Mission Control Center in Colorado Springs [Colorado], and IBM was bidding on that job, and there was a chance to go and develop that control center for the Air Force. It seemed like something still involved with the Shuttle and space operations, but a totally different kind of responsibility, and really different from what I had been doing, because it was not a flight control job so much as it was an overall control center development, prepare operations concepts, and how the Air Force would actually do their mission, which [would have been] a big challenge for the Air Force…. [After we (IBM) won the contract, the Air Force decided it was too big of a job for them]. They… backed off… [and canceled the contract. I think they made the right decision].\\n\\n …When the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident occurred, it was just devastating. I really had mixed emotions. One was, “Thank god I wasn't at the control center when that happened,” and the other was, “What am I doing out here? I'm not helping. NASA's really suffering and I'm sitting over here working for some Air Force program.” I really felt left out and kind of lost. But that was the way it was.\\n\\n So that was my career with NASA, in two hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You were right, it took two hours. I didn't think it would take that long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like I said, people are often surprised at the things they remember."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00173:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 6.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You were right, it took two hours. I didn't think it would take that long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like I said, people are often surprised at the things they remember."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you get started talking and you just keep going. There's a tremendous detail that's lost. I just don't remember. But it was just a wonderful experience for me. I'm really happy that I was involved in that, got to be a part of it. Just not many jobs like that around to work on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's certainly true. I did want to give both Tim and Carol a chance to ask some questions.\n\nIs there any point during your career at NASA that you consider your biggest accomplishment or something that you're most proud of being involved with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are several things that I thought were kind of neat that I got to do, but I think [the most satisfying was] being responsible for [dveloping] the trajectory program that was used to get the guidance [parameters] and to get the spacecraft to the Moon and back. Getting that developed, implemented, and seeing it actually [work]… was more of a personal accomplishment or achievement than any of the others. A lot of the rest of it was a team kind of [effort]—not that the trajectory development wasn't a team effort. It's just that I was in charge of that branch. It was my job to see which of those two programs, if either one of them we were going to use, because other organizations were building similar kind of programs. They weren't focused exclusively for use in Apollo though. Anyway, the fact that that worked so well, I really felt great about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you.\n\nI wanted to make sure you had a chance for any last remarks, or other stories that may have come to mind, or any other people you want to say something about or describe for us."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00379:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.991628339881302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "An amazing record."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An amazing record."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Amazing record for what was asked of it. Two test flights, and then we used it throughout the Apollo series for all the moon flights, and it worked fine. It did work fine on every flight except when we launched it and got hit with lightning on Apollo 12."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And even then it got up to orbit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even then it worked fine. Yes. A little scary, but it worked fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the countdown and training for flying the rocket from the ground, and we had talked before about how you trained for the earlier missions like the Mercury and having to make the tapes and then changing it for Gemini. How did you change your training for the Apollo missions?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00379:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 34.9269784225931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just kept absorbing more and more entities or organizations into it. Yes, it took a lot of exercising, but we got there and it worked pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it did, and it got to the moon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It got to the moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this time frame, you became chief of the flight director's office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhere in there, yes. Do you have the date, by the way?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe starting in 1968. What were your responsibilities?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00379:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.12461777185685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might have, yes, depending on how much it misfired, if that's the right word. That would have affected, I think, the decisions that had been made. I mean, you could imagine a very poor spacecraft with a lot of problems with it, and that probably would have affected the decision-making, because the decision-making was based on the confidence in the hardware and the confidence in the people, and had we not had the experience to establish that confidence, we would have stumbled along a little bit more, that is, more flights to get to the lunar landing than we did. We went to the lunar landing mission in very short order once we got to manning the Apollo hardware, that is, manning it with flight crews. We got there very quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And successfully."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And successfully."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier, when we were talking about the unmanned missions, that one of the Saturn V missions, in fact, the one right before Apollo 8, had experienced a variety of difficulties."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which were solved. But when the decision was made for Apollo 8 and you were going to use the Saturn V again, did you have any concerns about it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00379:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 44.44646099847581, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It doesn't happen very often, probably more than one lifetime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked the ascent phase of Apollo 11. Did you have any concerns about the computer because of the alarms?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. By that time we were settled down, and the ascent phase was a lot less demanding on the computer than the descent phase. So we weren't concerned about that.\\n\\n The other thing about it is, generally we always struggle with do we have to pull back from what we're doing and not go any further and find a more conservative or less risky way to deal with the situation in flight. That's generally kind of the thing that occupies you, can you commit to the next step, or can you stay in this stage, do you have to back out of it? That was generally the frame of mind we always had as to, can we stay here, or do we have to back out?\\n\\n In the case of the ascent, it was a no-brainer. There was no backing out of it. There was no backing away from it. When the time comes, we've got to light this thing and get on with it. So it isn't like we were getting ready for ascent, thinking, \"Gee, if everything isn't quite right, we're going to not go,\" or, \"We're going to stay. We're going to sit here.\" So that made it, in terms of any decisions that have to be made, mission kind of decisions, that made it kind of easy because we weren't going to back away from ascent, no matter what was going on. So that went by the book, and, of course, everything behaved well. The rendezvous went fine, the crews got back in, that went fine. That was kind of uneventful, I think, in terms of being anything other than normal, I believe, and the rendezvous back was fine, and that all worked well. So we were pleased with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they landed safely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Landed, and everything went well. The lunar work went well, and back we went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And back you did go with Apollo 12."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00379:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 48.273845553862, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. By that time we were settled down, and the ascent phase was a lot less demanding on the computer than the descent phase. So we weren't concerned about that.\\n\\n The other thing about it is, generally we always struggle with do we have to pull back from what we're doing and not go any further and find a more conservative or less risky way to deal with the situation in flight. That's generally kind of the thing that occupies you, can you commit to the next step, or can you stay in this stage, do you have to back out of it? That was generally the frame of mind we always had as to, can we stay here, or do we have to back out?\\n\\n In the case of the ascent, it was a no-brainer. There was no backing out of it. There was no backing away from it. When the time comes, we've got to light this thing and get on with it. So it isn't like we were getting ready for ascent, thinking, \"Gee, if everything isn't quite right, we're going to not go,\" or, \"We're going to stay. We're going to sit here.\" So that made it, in terms of any decisions that have to be made, mission kind of decisions, that made it kind of easy because we weren't going to back away from ascent, no matter what was going on. So that went by the book, and, of course, everything behaved well. The rendezvous went fine, the crews got back in, that went fine. That was kind of uneventful, I think, in terms of being anything other than normal, I believe, and the rendezvous back was fine, and that all worked well. So we were pleased with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they landed safely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Landed, and everything went well. The lunar work went well, and back we went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And back you did go with Apollo 12."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back we went to Apollo 12."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you mentioned earlier the lightning strike on Apollo 12."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00379:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 11.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It hasn't happened this year. Well, '99 is early yet. Who knows?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As we're going to close today, is there anything of what we've talked about today that you wanted to cover in more detail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we never really have done Apollo 13 yet, have we?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, no. I think I don't have a sideline that I wanted to introduce. I wish—all of us wish, I think, that we were better able to capture the mood and the sense of things as it existed at the time, but it's one of those sort of \"you almost had to have been there.\" But you guys are very empathetic about it, but it's hard to capture, it's really hard to capture, as to what it was like every day to come in and work on the next round of things and so on, but it was really exciting. It carried us and moved us, pumped the adrenaline. It was just charge-up time all the time.\\n\\n But to answer your question, I can't think of anything else I would add about that period in the context of what we talked about here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you certainly had quite an exciting time of it, and—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00304:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.39115263000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, exactly, and yet they did so much. You see the jets in the Command Module that you only use during entry, and some things. This is, you can do rotation or translation, but that CM system only is rotation because once you get through the Service Module, you’re on the way coming home, you just make sure that the heat shield is in front. This CM is so rusty and everything, but that’s a relic. That’s the actual one we did training offshore, getting the crew out into the rafts and into the helicopters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here, yes. We’d drop it in the water off a barge, and then the crews would get into it, and then they’d go pull them out with every flight and put them out with the helicopters, go through the whole recovery step. I think they did twice on every flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the same capsule used all through that training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s why it looks like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does it have a special marking or a name?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00304:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 37.101280700000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here, yes. We’d drop it in the water off a barge, and then the crews would get into it, and then they’d go pull them out with every flight and put them out with the helicopters, go through the whole recovery step. I think they did twice on every flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the same capsule used all through that training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s why it looks like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does it have a special marking or a name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn’t have a name, never did. “Command Module.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Missed your chance, didn’t you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00304:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 29.001423000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s why it looks like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does it have a special marking or a name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn’t have a name, never did. “Command Module.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Missed your chance, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes. Sorry. It doesn’t have a real heat shield or anything like that. It was made mostly of cast iron, just like that. It’s interesting; when they shut it down, the Service Modules were built in Tulsa, the Command Modules were built in Downey, and so you could go out and see a Command Module all the time. I personally never saw a Service Module until they were at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida]. I never saw one that was all disassembled. These white things over here are radiators. Remember, you had a thermal system—the thermal coolant loops would go through across that bridge thing that got the guillotine later, and that was the ethylene glycol, that was the thing that was flammable, which we shouldn’t have been using but we did, if you go back to the first flight fire [Apollo 1 accident].\\n\\n Do you know what Primacord is? It’s an explosive, but it looks like a rope. What they do, there would be Primacord on these things, all around where you separate this thing away, when you would unzip the SLA. This SLA is the Service Module/Lunar Module Adaptor, and then all around the back end of that. Way up there in the point, where that hole is, you can see the hinges. See that they would fall out this way. When they fell out this far, in the early design, it’s where they were going to then break the hinges and let them fly away, and that’s when Wally [Walter M.] Schirra took a look at that and said, “We ain’t doing that.” He was right. He was right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A profound and true statement, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00011:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.420560000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that is true. In varying degrees I learned about all the operations at MPR and CPR either through studies and projects [e.g., mailroom, accessioning and disposal of records] or working in them [e.g., management staff and reference branches]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Just zooming out a little bit. Can you tell me a bit about what you were doing before you came onto that role or kind of what got you interested in this line of work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean what caused me to apply for the GS-4 archives technician position?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I graduated from the University of Missouri at St. Louis (UMSL) with a BA in English and received a lifetime certificate to teach secondary English. However, during my senior year I decided I wasn’t really interested in teaching. I met with a guidance counselor in UMSL’s placement office who told me to check out the bulletin board that had listings for job opportunities and application forms for the civil service exam. I took the Junior Federal Assistant exam that qualified me for a GS-4 position with a federal agency. Sometime after that, I got a phone call to report to the National Personnel Records Center for an interview, which at that time was at 9700 Page Avenue. The Assistant Director interviewed me for a GS-4 archives technician, work-in-file position for the Army Reference Branch. I didn’t know anything about the National Personnel Records Center, but the job sounded interesting and I needed a job, so I accepted the opportunity. Little did I know that job would be the beginning of a 35-year career with NARA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me a bit about after you came in after the civil service tests and such. What kind of training did your unit provide you? Like what kind of stuff did you learn and do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00011:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The biggest change was when NPRC started the Business Process Re-engineering (BPR) in the early 2000s. We were moving away from being a paper-based operation to electronic. Technicians did their work on PCs utilizing procedures that could be accessed electronically. The procedures were modified to no longer be branch specific. In other words, a GS-5 correspondence technician who used to process just Army records requests could now use the same instruction to process Navy and Air Force records requests. The fire-related requests required specialized knowledge and training, but even those cases could be processed more timely and efficiently using the CMRS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that makes sense. So we will wrap it up. But I wanted to just ask kind of one final open-ended question. Would love to hear overall, how do you view your time working at the National Archives, and is there anything else you want to add in general?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a very interesting and rewarding experience starting out as a GS-4 archives technician working in the stack areas to leading CPR as the Assistant Director. I had the privilege of working with some of the best and most capable people at both MPR and CPR throughout my career. Equally important were the friends I made along the way. I met them shortly after the fire, and we are still friends today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. It’s awesome to hear that. And you know, as someone who’s working here right now, I love to hear about your experiences. I study history myself, so I’ve done quite a bit of archival research and talking with the techs who pull my materials and help me find the materials I’m looking for. I’m always very grateful for the staff who do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The National Archives impacts a lot of people throughout the world. What we do is important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Totally. So that concludes our interview. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00297:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 24, "return_to_go": 153.85986499575824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I eventually ran the Space Station under Gerry Griffin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As his assistant."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s another interesting story. I didn’t stay there very long. I can’t remember the exact timing, but Chris didn’t just walk out the door when I showed up. The transition between Chris and Gerry happened about halfway through my tour as a horse-holder, which those things generally lasted about a year. I did not do it for an entire year, because Griffin, in his infinite wisdom, decided that one of the things that young Neil didn’t have on his ticket was working at NASA Headquarters, [Washington, D.C.].\\n\\n I don’t remember the exact timing, but Gerry asked me to—well, there were several things going on at NASA Headquarters at the time. One is I’d gotten to know Jim Beggs in the process of this Kraft-Griffin transition. We had a guy running Code M by the name of Jim [James A.] Abrahamson, an Air Force general who used to be a MOL [Manned Orbiting Laboratory] astronaut—didn’t ever fly because that program got cancelled. Jim—“Abe,” as he is called by most people who know him well—needed help up in Code M and Gerry saw a chance for me to leave the field center for a while and go get another ticket punched, and so I did.\\n\\n Once Gerry got installed and we kind of got the system rolling down here and he got into a comfort zone in terms of his—I mean, I wasn’t necessarily responsible for his comfort zone, but we kind of got things back on an even keel. I left and went to NASA Headquarters. I packed up my family and rented out my house and I moved to McLean, Virginia, and went to work up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of your main assignments as the Director of the Space Shuttle Operations Office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean at NASA Headquarters?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At NASA Headquarters."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00857:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 47.03595608429058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me explain, that probably not so much what we saw in Mission Control; what we saw at the tracking sites was the raw downlink slow-scan, which would be much higher-quality than the converted signal. What we saw at Houston would probably be what you would call the best converted picture because once we sent it out to Intelsat again or to the commercial carrier, depending on how he’s doing, he may preserve it as well or not.\\n\\n What we saw at Houston was pretty similar to what the world saw. It wasn’t edited; it was passed through. The only reason it went through Houston was if there was a problem, someone had to cut it. If there was a fire on board or something blew up, you always have to be able to turn it off to the public if there’s an emergency, just as we do with Shuttle or any other project. But nothing was edited. When they talk about the quality of it, people are generally referring to the fact that the slow-scan, if you could have seen it, was probably, I’d say, three to five times higher quality than what you could get when you converted it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you always in Houston during those Apollo flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were always at Mission Control?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would be at tracking sites and Goddard throughout between missions, and I would go to Houston every month. Even without the mission, I would be there a couple of weeks every month, getting ready. Then, every mission, I would go to Houston so that I would be in contact with all the tracking sites at the same time and be at this, I guess, the center of operations, so that if there was a problem, I would be there to talk to the people at Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also did testing at the Electronics Systems Test Laboratory."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00857:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.38142978858494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the night because it was Christmas Eve. I remember the astronaut started—I guess there were some stories I heard recently about who was going to read what from the Bible—we didn’t have any controversy going on about should they read from the Bible or not, but we didn’t really know what they were going to do. As it turns out, I don’t think they did for sure, either. It just kind of came together: I remember before we saw the Earth, they were trying to point that camera and get a view of the Moon and the Earth together, and so it took some manipulation because they don’t have a good viewfinder on a camera. They’re holding the camera up and the Earth’s telling them what they’re seeing. They have a monitor, but it’s pretty hard to do. Once they got the view and started reading, and it was Christmas Eve, it was pretty impressive, and I think most of the television audience was quite impressed with that. Later on, you see color photos that were taken out the window of that view, coming around the Moon. That’s what I remember. It wasn’t anything special or difficult to do for the TV part of it, but it was spectacular as to the effect of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just further away, to get that signal back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, again, we were having to work with signals at a lunar distance. This was from the Command Module. I think we had a little more power there than we did—same camera, but it wasn’t from the Lunar Module—I think we used 85-foot dishes, as I recall, on that, so it worked out all right, but it wasn’t going to be the same on the Moon from the LM, from the Lunar Module."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were mentioning the color—Apollo 10 was the first time that color cameras were used?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, sequential-color."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sequential-color, so then on Apollo 11, they had the color in the Command Module, but they didn’t use that on the surface of the Moon. Was that a power issue, or was it the weight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00857:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 36, "return_to_go": 75.15260046133434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Knowing you may never come back, you might as well have fun while you’re there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and there are some of those iconic images—of course, Pete [Charles] Conrad singing, and all those different things that we all remember. I think they did have a lot of fun while they were there. While we’re on Apollo, let’s talk about the recovery of the Apollo video that you’ve been involved in here in the recent years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean the search for the missing tapes?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The search for the missing tapes, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also was involved a little bit in some tapes that were actual recovery tapes of the Apollo 11 capsule, the U.S.S. Hornet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be great, we’d love to hear about that, too."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00857:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 46.231672704365714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took me about three years, from 2006, I believe, to 2009, when we finished the project and had the reconverted or enhanced tapes done. Then, they had the Emmy Awards and decided they ought to—I think what happened was that when we did all that tape stuff, searching the tapes and then upgrading the quality and playing it, and got a lot press, and then they had some press conferences, you know, to question me, “Did we go to the Moon?” We had a lot of those nuts out there. All that publicity, I think, triggered the Academy saying, “You know, the radio and television arts and sciences part of the Academy has never awarded an Emmy to NASA for historic TV.”\\n\\n All of a sudden, the 40th anniversary came around, all this stuff was being publicized, and all of a sudden, it’s announced that NASA’s getting an Emmy. Then, Headquarters calls me and says, “We want you and Buzz Aldrin to accept on behalf of us.” I felt almost ashamed to do it. At first, I thought, “Okay, whatever,” then I realized it was a big deal. My wife went to Hollywood with me and walked on the red carpet and all that, so it was pretty exciting stuff for her more than me because I had to make a speech. That’s the last thing I wanted to do, but it all worked out really great, yes. I’ve got a big Emmy sitting in my dining room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? That’s exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and there’s one at Headquarters in the lobby—you could have seen it there. You’d see my picture with Buzz Aldrin, and June Lockhart was the Master of Ceremonies at this part of the Emmy Awards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Lost in Space [television show]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they use her all the time. A wonderful woman, just so friendly. Really great. Went drinking with her afterwards. It was terrific."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you were involved in some of the recovery on the Hornet? The video?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00857:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 44.70185856040635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and there’s one at Headquarters in the lobby—you could have seen it there. You’d see my picture with Buzz Aldrin, and June Lockhart was the Master of Ceremonies at this part of the Emmy Awards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Lost in Space [television show]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they use her all the time. A wonderful woman, just so friendly. Really great. Went drinking with her afterwards. It was terrific."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you were involved in some of the recovery on the Hornet? The video?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t involved in the recovery, but during the search. When I was looking for the tapes, we would get calls from people saying, “I think I have your tape,” you know, “my dad worked for NASA and I found this thing in the basement.” We got calls left and right, and other people saying, “Well, we have a tape, but you can’t have it unless you give us a lot of money.” None of them had what we wanted, so we humored them a while, and then said, “Sorry.”\\n\\n I got a call, this was a fellow that was the Second in Command on the U.S.S. Hornet, which was the recovery ship for the Apollo 11 capsule for the return to Earth. He was over in Chesapeake Beach, on Chesapeake Bay, he lived over there. He had tapes from on-board, and that’s when the Apollo 11 capsule was picked up, was brought to the U.S.S. Hornet, they were put in, what do you call those? I’m trying to remember the name of it, the little vans you pull that you live in when you go on vacation [Airstream travel trailers], the famous ones?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, for when they were in isolation [Mobile Quarantine Facility]."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00857:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 58.029048255458534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t believe it has. Some of the historians down there should be aware of where this is. This is something someone ought to take a look at and utilize because it shows a lot of recovery stuff that I doubt if most people ever saw. It’s fascinating stuff, even Nixon and everything Nixon did wasn’t on TV, so it shows all the Nixon going around the ship and acting important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s the raw footage.\n\nI’m sure the Hornet people would like to have a copy, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They might, now. He had it digitized on the DVD, this guy that gave it to me. He had DVDs of it, but NASA didn’t, unless he included that. I can’t recall, now. Maybe I have one—I’ll have to look before I die, and see what I have at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this search, in finding different tapes—like you said, you found Apollo 9 and some different things—what about playback for these things? Did you still have the equipment to look at what you were finding?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the big pluses at the time was the fact that one of my technicians had been there as long as I had. He came maybe a little after me, but the recorders in his lab that were used from Apollo, he had preserved those for 40-some years, and they were in total operating condition. They’ll still play tapes that we used in the network for data and stuff, so we had actual Apollo 11-type recorders that had been preserved and in-use, ready to go, if we got the tape. We had everything we needed to convert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about some of the other programs. Skylab?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00857:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 57.810053617176145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They might, now. He had it digitized on the DVD, this guy that gave it to me. He had DVDs of it, but NASA didn’t, unless he included that. I can’t recall, now. Maybe I have one—I’ll have to look before I die, and see what I have at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this search, in finding different tapes—like you said, you found Apollo 9 and some different things—what about playback for these things? Did you still have the equipment to look at what you were finding?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the big pluses at the time was the fact that one of my technicians had been there as long as I had. He came maybe a little after me, but the recorders in his lab that were used from Apollo, he had preserved those for 40-some years, and they were in total operating condition. They’ll still play tapes that we used in the network for data and stuff, so we had actual Apollo 11-type recorders that had been preserved and in-use, ready to go, if we got the tape. We had everything we needed to convert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about some of the other programs. Skylab?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Skylab was, of course, the first lab we had, and we did a lot of support of Skylab out of Rosman, North Carolina. We had a Rosman tracking site down there, an 85-foot dish up in the mountains of North Carolina, near Asheville. There wasn’t anything I can really recall special, other than we did our normal support, and it was kind of like, Space Station or Shuttle after it’s been up a while, it was just ongoing support. I can’t recall, unless someone reminds me of something that happened, anything specific in that project, other than support from Rosman was a new area of support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like you said, they were there 24 hours a day for extended periods."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00857:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 64.2333929079735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the big pluses at the time was the fact that one of my technicians had been there as long as I had. He came maybe a little after me, but the recorders in his lab that were used from Apollo, he had preserved those for 40-some years, and they were in total operating condition. They’ll still play tapes that we used in the network for data and stuff, so we had actual Apollo 11-type recorders that had been preserved and in-use, ready to go, if we got the tape. We had everything we needed to convert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about some of the other programs. Skylab?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Skylab was, of course, the first lab we had, and we did a lot of support of Skylab out of Rosman, North Carolina. We had a Rosman tracking site down there, an 85-foot dish up in the mountains of North Carolina, near Asheville. There wasn’t anything I can really recall special, other than we did our normal support, and it was kind of like, Space Station or Shuttle after it’s been up a while, it was just ongoing support. I can’t recall, unless someone reminds me of something that happened, anything specific in that project, other than support from Rosman was a new area of support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like you said, they were there 24 hours a day for extended periods."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you stay in Houston the whole time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00857:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 35, "return_to_go": 70.25932545330389, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Skylab was, of course, the first lab we had, and we did a lot of support of Skylab out of Rosman, North Carolina. We had a Rosman tracking site down there, an 85-foot dish up in the mountains of North Carolina, near Asheville. There wasn’t anything I can really recall special, other than we did our normal support, and it was kind of like, Space Station or Shuttle after it’s been up a while, it was just ongoing support. I can’t recall, unless someone reminds me of something that happened, anything specific in that project, other than support from Rosman was a new area of support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like you said, they were there 24 hours a day for extended periods."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you stay in Houston the whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. On those missions, on Skylab, I was mainly at Goddard, and we would directly go to Rosman or one of the tracking sites for work, ongoing work, but mainly at Goddard once it was ongoing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project] was the first time Americans saw a Russian launch, and did you coordinate with the Russians in the television coverage? How did that work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00857:114", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.6209869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s easier to store, but to tell you the truth, that’s even an issue. When I was out at the Emmys, the Radio and Television Society asked me to be on a panel to talk about storage digital because digital formats change. It’s like saying I had an old video recorder that I can’t play back tapes—it’s the same in the digital world. If you’re going to keep something 20 or 30 years, that format that went on that disk is no longer used. They’re looking at how do we best preserve digital data, given that there’s more information? How do we preserve it where we still are capable of extracting it whenever we want to?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a constant upgrade."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a constant, yes. Every time someone comes out with a new device or a new format, that means trouble for the old formats because now you have old devices that have to be preserved. I don’t know any way around it, and there’s never going to be a universal standard for everyone in the world to use at all times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, because technology keeps going forward, no matter what."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’ve pretty well milked me for what I can [remember]. Hey, you get old, you don’t remember anything. It’s harder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it was good. I think we got a lot of good information, and we certainly appreciate you coming and talking to us, sharing with us."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00857:116", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.245541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a constant, yes. Every time someone comes out with a new device or a new format, that means trouble for the old formats because now you have old devices that have to be preserved. I don’t know any way around it, and there’s never going to be a universal standard for everyone in the world to use at all times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, because technology keeps going forward, no matter what."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’ve pretty well milked me for what I can [remember]. Hey, you get old, you don’t remember anything. It’s harder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it was good. I think we got a lot of good information, and we certainly appreciate you coming and talking to us, sharing with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t say that I was excited to do it, other than I think that when people ask me—not that I was so important; I’m a little niche in a lot of things that happened. I’m sure you’ve talked to a lot of important people higher up, but when people ask you, “We want to interview you,” they’re asking because they want information that I have, and it’s almost like a duty to do it. This was pleasant, this was fine. Television interviews can be really tedious. Like that Japanese interview went five hours, and it was just difficult. I remember saying, even doing photo pictures of the Moon and stuff, the Washington Post one time took, I think, three hours to get one picture to put in the newspaper. I was standing in front of an image of the Moon, and I said, “This is tiring! I’d rather be playing golf.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll let you pursue that now! Thank you again."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00857:118", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.93949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’ve pretty well milked me for what I can [remember]. Hey, you get old, you don’t remember anything. It’s harder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it was good. I think we got a lot of good information, and we certainly appreciate you coming and talking to us, sharing with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t say that I was excited to do it, other than I think that when people ask me—not that I was so important; I’m a little niche in a lot of things that happened. I’m sure you’ve talked to a lot of important people higher up, but when people ask you, “We want to interview you,” they’re asking because they want information that I have, and it’s almost like a duty to do it. This was pleasant, this was fine. Television interviews can be really tedious. Like that Japanese interview went five hours, and it was just difficult. I remember saying, even doing photo pictures of the Moon and stuff, the Washington Post one time took, I think, three hours to get one picture to put in the newspaper. I was standing in front of an image of the Moon, and I said, “This is tiring! I’d rather be playing golf.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll let you pursue that now! Thank you again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re welcome.\\n\\n [pause]\\n\\n Are you on?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we’re on."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00857:126", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But if you were there with us after-hours, it would not be a family movie! That’s all I can tell you about Australia. It’s a fun place when we had free time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought it was interesting because it did explain how the Australians felt about how proud they were, that they were bringing that video through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were so proud. One other thing about the Australians is it was like from the motherland, even though they’re Australian, they have this English Queen backing, and what we would do when we went over there, we would take Playboy magazines. In those days, Playboy was the ultimate—we didn’t call it a porn magazine, but it was an adult magazine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gentleman’s magazine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, but what happened was you weren’t allowed to bring Playboy. When you would go into airport customs, you would clearly display this Playboy magazine innocently, like you don’t know what you’re doing. They would confiscate it and give you a big certificate that said, “By order of the Queen,” and it would go on to say, “We’ve confiscated your Playboy magazine.” They didn’t allow those in Australia. No one could sell them or buy them, so we would bring them over to get the certificate that we had the Playboy confiscated. That was a big thing to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were proud of those certificates?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00857:128", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were so proud. One other thing about the Australians is it was like from the motherland, even though they’re Australian, they have this English Queen backing, and what we would do when we went over there, we would take Playboy magazines. In those days, Playboy was the ultimate—we didn’t call it a porn magazine, but it was an adult magazine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gentleman’s magazine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, but what happened was you weren’t allowed to bring Playboy. When you would go into airport customs, you would clearly display this Playboy magazine innocently, like you don’t know what you’re doing. They would confiscate it and give you a big certificate that said, “By order of the Queen,” and it would go on to say, “We’ve confiscated your Playboy magazine.” They didn’t allow those in Australia. No one could sell them or buy them, so we would bring them over to get the certificate that we had the Playboy confiscated. That was a big thing to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were proud of those certificates?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, “By order of the Queen, I’m hereby confiscating goods that are not allowed within the country, i.e. namely one Playboy issue 14.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A badge of honor."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00069:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 55.203120041451925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just in answer to your first question. Want to go to question two?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] No, that’s fine. I’ve been making notes as you’ve been going on, and we’ll go back and talk about them. You’re on a roll, if you want to just continue on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, we can go back to question two if you want, since that’s a good break point there, at the end of the first, because now I start talking about being a commander, which is different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. It is different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jeez. Question two, an hour and a half into this session."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. What we’ll do is we’ll kind of start talking about the 31 mission and work backwards."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00069:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 61.33680004605769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, we can go back to question two if you want, since that’s a good break point there, at the end of the first, because now I start talking about being a commander, which is different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. It is different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jeez. Question two, an hour and a half into this session."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. What we’ll do is we’ll kind of start talking about the 31 mission and work backwards."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things that Steve Hawley told us was while Bruce and Kathy were in the airlock and he was up there, they were the ones that were actually supposed to take the photographs also."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00069:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 68.15200005117521, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jeez. Question two, an hour and a half into this session."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. What we’ll do is we’ll kind of start talking about the 31 mission and work backwards."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things that Steve Hawley told us was while Bruce and Kathy were in the airlock and he was up there, they were the ones that were actually supposed to take the photographs also."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely right. I forgot about that. That was a nightmare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he said that you turned on the IMAX camera. Do you have any other memories about that incident?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00069:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 52.9430928496455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we actually got back to the original time. We were supposed to be a seven-day mission. I think we were supposed to be a six-day mission, and we ended up being a seven-day mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there time you had to fill?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We went back and we filled the time with the experiments that were originally scheduled to be done. They were really trying to figure out how to chop stuff out of our schedule to get us back in four days. So it didn’t affect us in terms of activity onboard, other than the fact—well, I take that back—other than the fact that we had to pack up and unpack every day, from Day Four, which we not ordinarily have done. That took a huge chunk of time out of the on-orbit availability of experiment time.\\n\\n So, some of the experiments that we would have ordinarily done, we didn’t get to do, or we didn’t get to do them for the length of time that the ground would have liked for us to have done them, because when you started buttoning up the vehicle for landing, then you stopped doing experiments. Everything went into their drawers or into their lockers, and that was it.\\n\\n Even after we waved off and it was decided we were going to stay on orbit for another day, you didn’t go back in and pull everything out wholesale, because some experiments you’d already fixed, if you will. If you had something live, you’d already put the death fluid in there, and so it wasn’t going to come back. It was dead, and it was fixed in perpetuity, or whatever it is. So, some things you just couldn’t reactivate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things that you were supposed to do on that flight was observing spiral eddies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. How do you know that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] We’ve talked to other people. Actually, I’ve read a couple of different things. I think Steve Hawley’s interview, and also [Robert E.] Stevenson—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00069:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 76.121159655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. Taking spiral—yes. You all did get that. In fact, Bob Stevenson—I just drew what it looked like. As a matter of fact, the one that Bob was talking about—now I remember. The picture we drew, “It could not have been,” was the claim, because it was a wrong-handed eddy. Just like in the northern hemisphere—I’ve got to get this right—I think eddies go counterclockwise. He’d kill me, you know, if—and in the southern hemisphere, because of Coriolus Effect, things go clockwise. If you want to see it, you just look at your toilet. When you flush the toilet up here, the water goes out of the toilet counterclockwise because of the Coriolus Effect. In the southern hemisphere, because it’s just the opposite, the water goes out spinning to the right, or spinning clockwise. And the eddy we saw and drew for them, it didn’t faze us because we knew that you’d see them going both ways. But the Shuttle’s theoretical position, or the position we thought we were in when we drew this eddy, you shouldn’t be able to see one that was going clockwise.\\n\\n What they determined, I think what Bob Stevenson and the experts determined, I think, was that there’s a transition zone around the equator, and although you shouldn’t see it, then in this transition zone you might see southern hemispheric-acting eddies in the northern hemisphere. I don’t know whether that’s what he told you or not. But I had drawn it, and so I had my proof."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t have a picture to show for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier that this was sort of the end-of-the-year-clearance flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any specific challenges that you remember on that flight that you’d like to share with us?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 52.01084091170118, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You haven’t heard about the Hubble? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not from you. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it has more than lived up to the expectations. I think we have done everything that we said we were going to do, and more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must be very exciting to see that for you and all of your colleagues to watch that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One thing I ought to tell you. I think I’ve mentioned this in other interviews, but I still find it interesting. In the early days when we were still trying to get approval through Congress, [William] Proxmire—you might probably remember him—asked why the average American taxpayer should want to pay for the Hubble. It was then the ST, Space Telescope. My answer was—and this was all by mail; I didn’t ever testify in Congress, fortunately, I think—my answer was that for the price of a night at the movies every taxpayer would receive fifteen years of exciting scientific results.\\n\\n In the first place, I don’t think my prediction was wrong. In the second place, I recently figured whether that statement was still true, and it is. In spite of the increase in cost of the Hubble—other things have also gone up—it’s still true that the average American taxpayer is getting fifteen years of exciting science for the price of a single night at the movies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And hopefully they will continue to learn more and more about those results as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 57.78982323522353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it has more than lived up to the expectations. I think we have done everything that we said we were going to do, and more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must be very exciting to see that for you and all of your colleagues to watch that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One thing I ought to tell you. I think I’ve mentioned this in other interviews, but I still find it interesting. In the early days when we were still trying to get approval through Congress, [William] Proxmire—you might probably remember him—asked why the average American taxpayer should want to pay for the Hubble. It was then the ST, Space Telescope. My answer was—and this was all by mail; I didn’t ever testify in Congress, fortunately, I think—my answer was that for the price of a night at the movies every taxpayer would receive fifteen years of exciting scientific results.\\n\\n In the first place, I don’t think my prediction was wrong. In the second place, I recently figured whether that statement was still true, and it is. In spite of the increase in cost of the Hubble—other things have also gone up—it’s still true that the average American taxpayer is getting fifteen years of exciting science for the price of a single night at the movies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And hopefully they will continue to learn more and more about those results as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were discussing earlier the first days and then, of course, the days that led up to the Hubble, it made me think about the different type of spacecraft or vehicles that your telescopes have used to get where they need to go. How did that change, just that piece of technology, affect how you planned?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.041515387229907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sort of worry that the present system, which puts so much responsibility into people who really do have a conflict of interest. Even though it may not—you know, they may not be proposing a competing experiment for a particular mission, they do have a conflict of interest, and I guess I feel that that’s dangerous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me take the other side of that. What was probably the most challenging part of your job? You mentioned that IUE was probably one of the proudest things that you were able to accomplish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess it was also the most challenging in many ways because I had so very little support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the difficulty of that. Did the continual change of technology, just how different that we do things in the seventies compared to doing things in the fifties, and how technology progressed, did it affect your decisions or did that have a—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it certainly affected what we were able to do in a major way. One of the things I did because of this history project is, I re-read Smith’s book, and I was interested to read something that I had forgotten. Apparently I was almost entirely responsible for the fact that we’re using CCDs [charge coupled devices] for the wide-angle camera, the wide-field planetary camera on the Hubble. That was, in fact, the first use of CCDs in astronomy. Now CCDs have just completely taken over astronomy since then. But I just did not feel that the intensified Vidicon, which is what most people assumed we’d use, was going to do the job. It looked to me like the CCDs should, and they have, obviously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So much that changed, I know people have a hard time trying to decide what day they’re going to buy their computer because they know the next day it’s going to be better and cheaper. I was just thinking about that when you were talking about how so much change, you know, of course, you have so much, and, of course, the Challenger stopping things, and you had technology still progressing, how much did you have to go back and redo before you could do what you wanted to do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 37.09398544201633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember too much of that happening, actually, in spite of the Challenger redesign. As I say, the Space Telescope was pretty well set by the time, oh, it was pretty, reasonably well designed by Challenger, and it certainly, yes, it was, yes, I said, I guess I said it was almost finished at the time of Challenger, so you couldn’t do much about that.\\n\\n In the case of COBE, it was primarily simply a matter of a different spacecraft. I don’t remember that technology had a major role in the changes there. In the case of the Compton Gamma Ray Observatory [CGRO], it was launched by the shuttle, but it was originally designed both to have some maintenance in orbit, although because of budget, a lot of the maintenance was dropped before launch, I mean, before it was built. It was just decided that it was too expensive to put in that many maintainable components. I’m told that they felt that maintaining it in orbit might have been rather dangerous, although there were things they could do. I don’t know whether they could take care of the gyro or not. Probably not. But the thing that is striking is that it was designed to be recaptured by the shuttle and taken back to Earth, and that was some budgetary decision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it was working well and was certainly a good satellite, good set of instruments getting good data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You retired, I believe in 1979. When you retired, did you feel like the goals that you had set for yourself and for your program had been accomplished?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.90144991074518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it worked very nicely, and I continued after she died. I continued to telecommute quite a bit of the time, and now the administrative assistant in the group telecommutes three days a week, and the primary computer person, although they do have some others working, helping the group now, but the one was primarily working with me, has moved out to Arizona and is telecommuting. So I started something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your trend continues. What a legacy. I’m sure they all appreciate that, too. It’s nice to be able to have great people working for you, and everybody’s happy in that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I think the group was happy, although the reason I left—as it happened, I think it was probably the best thing in a lot of ways. But the civil service person, this was a contractor, of course, the civil service person, who had taken over our part of the contract, and I did not get along. I was asked to leave. I think, to some extent, she was jealous of me, but there were other—I mean, we also disagreed in many areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. When we were preparing for this time with you, I read that someone had quoted you as saying that you had categorized your career into three phases: research and teaching and management and support. Do you still feel that way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, very definitely. In my period at Yerkes, I stayed Yerkes for six years after I got my degree, did graduate-level teaching and spent most of my time on research. Of course, NRL, the three and a half years at NRL were research entirely except for this informal course I gave. Then I had the management period, which was very definitely management. Then the support services contractor. Now I guess I might say I have a fourth area that I’m keeping pretty busy on a whole variety of volunteer activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And enjoying those as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.66827767860575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I think the group was happy, although the reason I left—as it happened, I think it was probably the best thing in a lot of ways. But the civil service person, this was a contractor, of course, the civil service person, who had taken over our part of the contract, and I did not get along. I was asked to leave. I think, to some extent, she was jealous of me, but there were other—I mean, we also disagreed in many areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. When we were preparing for this time with you, I read that someone had quoted you as saying that you had categorized your career into three phases: research and teaching and management and support. Do you still feel that way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, very definitely. In my period at Yerkes, I stayed Yerkes for six years after I got my degree, did graduate-level teaching and spent most of my time on research. Of course, NRL, the three and a half years at NRL were research entirely except for this informal course I gave. Then I had the management period, which was very definitely management. Then the support services contractor. Now I guess I might say I have a fourth area that I’m keeping pretty busy on a whole variety of volunteer activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And enjoying those as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And enjoying those, too, and also doing other things, but, well, I’m the secretary of the National Capital Astronomers, which is primarily an amateur organization, although it does contain a number of professional. I’m now, as of a few weeks ago, assistant treasurer of our local AAUW branch, but I also manage their web pages. I read for the blind and dyslexic because they were anxious to get technical readers and they particularly wanted somebody who could read astronomy—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how neat."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.631419642895278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, very definitely. In my period at Yerkes, I stayed Yerkes for six years after I got my degree, did graduate-level teaching and spent most of my time on research. Of course, NRL, the three and a half years at NRL were research entirely except for this informal course I gave. Then I had the management period, which was very definitely management. Then the support services contractor. Now I guess I might say I have a fourth area that I’m keeping pretty busy on a whole variety of volunteer activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And enjoying those as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And enjoying those, too, and also doing other things, but, well, I’m the secretary of the National Capital Astronomers, which is primarily an amateur organization, although it does contain a number of professional. I’m now, as of a few weeks ago, assistant treasurer of our local AAUW branch, but I also manage their web pages. I read for the blind and dyslexic because they were anxious to get technical readers and they particularly wanted somebody who could read astronomy—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how neat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and I do various other things. Give lectures. So maybe my fourth portion of my career is as a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But all those great credentials, all the previous roles have, certainly will make you a supreme volunteer. You’ll have so many different opportunities to go for."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.701577380994753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And enjoying those, too, and also doing other things, but, well, I’m the secretary of the National Capital Astronomers, which is primarily an amateur organization, although it does contain a number of professional. I’m now, as of a few weeks ago, assistant treasurer of our local AAUW branch, but I also manage their web pages. I read for the blind and dyslexic because they were anxious to get technical readers and they particularly wanted somebody who could read astronomy—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how neat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and I do various other things. Give lectures. So maybe my fourth portion of my career is as a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But all those great credentials, all the previous roles have, certainly will make you a supreme volunteer. You’ll have so many different opportunities to go for."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I have done a little teaching since I—well, I actually did a tiny bit before I retired, but I’ve done a little at the local community college in the summer, teaching, well, I’ve done one course for advanced high school students and several courses for high school science teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what a value for them. That’s terrific."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.001752645549725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and I do various other things. Give lectures. So maybe my fourth portion of my career is as a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But all those great credentials, all the previous roles have, certainly will make you a supreme volunteer. You’ll have so many different opportunities to go for."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I have done a little teaching since I—well, I actually did a tiny bit before I retired, but I’ve done a little at the local community college in the summer, teaching, well, I’ve done one course for advanced high school students and several courses for high school science teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what a value for them. That’s terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve been co-teaching those and it’s been fun. As I think I’ve indicated, I’ve always liked teaching, and most people seem to think I’m a good teacher. So it works out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you certainly have shared so many of your ideas, which is, of course, the foundation of teaching, is that sharing of information. I was thinking back when you were talking earlier about not quite sure when your interest began to be an astronomer, but certainly it was at a time when there weren’t very many astronomers. What was the perception then of astronomers compared to what maybe the perception of astronomy is now?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 23.33528071727747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I have done a little teaching since I—well, I actually did a tiny bit before I retired, but I’ve done a little at the local community college in the summer, teaching, well, I’ve done one course for advanced high school students and several courses for high school science teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what a value for them. That’s terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve been co-teaching those and it’s been fun. As I think I’ve indicated, I’ve always liked teaching, and most people seem to think I’m a good teacher. So it works out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you certainly have shared so many of your ideas, which is, of course, the foundation of teaching, is that sharing of information. I was thinking back when you were talking earlier about not quite sure when your interest began to be an astronomer, but certainly it was at a time when there weren’t very many astronomers. What was the perception then of astronomers compared to what maybe the perception of astronomy is now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it certainly was a lot less known, and I guess maybe today people get astronomy and astrology confused a little less. I’m not sure. But, yes, when I joined the International, the International Astronomical Union [IAU] supposedly contains essentially all professional astronomers in the world, when I joined it, that was the first year the membership got over 1,000. Now it’s pretty close to 10,000. So that’s been quite a change. But the fact that the field is small has made it interesting because the fact that the field was small means that astronomers knew each other all over the world. This has made it very pleasant, and it’s also helped in my job at NASA because, of course, in our international programs we dealt with astronomers in other countries. The fact that they knew me and I knew them in many cases made things a lot easier. Of course, the other thing is pretty obvious. As a woman, I was better known than someone else probably, than a man would have been with the same career. So people remember me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Out of that thousand, I’m sure there weren’t too many women. Is that—?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.463557086147683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent so many years day in and day out and then something other people literally reached the stars from one way or the other. Was there a time that you thought maybe you should have take a different road, or were you always glad to be in the path that you were in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I was glad to be in the path. As I said, the period at NRL, I did feel that it was not a field I stay in indefinitely because of the fact that I didn’t have the electronic background, but I enjoyed it. I found it very helpful when I went to NASA because, of course, there I was, in NRL, I was in an engineering organization, so I was dealing with engineers full-time.\\n\\n One of the problems when I started with NASA was that the astronomers knew what they wanted to do and the engineers were perfectly willing to help them do it, but they couldn’t communicate with each other. So I felt that much of my time in, or at least an important part of my time in the early period, was acting as an interpreter between the astronomers and the engineers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, finding a common language, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Finding a com—well, yes. It really did need somebody who had some feeling for both sides. So my period at NRL, it was a happy period. I’m not unhappy about it and particularly in view of the fact that I didn’t see, I thought it was a much better opportunity than I saw anywhere else in the university area. So I don’t feel unhappy about any part of my career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any time at all that you come on something that was possible maybe unexplainable as you were starting to put things together in your research or having maybe the proposal people wanted you to do something that would push the envelope, would maybe answer some questions that people have asked for decades and no one wanted to reach to find those answers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.848396762386313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I was glad to be in the path. As I said, the period at NRL, I did feel that it was not a field I stay in indefinitely because of the fact that I didn’t have the electronic background, but I enjoyed it. I found it very helpful when I went to NASA because, of course, there I was, in NRL, I was in an engineering organization, so I was dealing with engineers full-time.\\n\\n One of the problems when I started with NASA was that the astronomers knew what they wanted to do and the engineers were perfectly willing to help them do it, but they couldn’t communicate with each other. So I felt that much of my time in, or at least an important part of my time in the early period, was acting as an interpreter between the astronomers and the engineers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, finding a common language, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Finding a com—well, yes. It really did need somebody who had some feeling for both sides. So my period at NRL, it was a happy period. I’m not unhappy about it and particularly in view of the fact that I didn’t see, I thought it was a much better opportunity than I saw anywhere else in the university area. So I don’t feel unhappy about any part of my career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any time at all that you come on something that was possible maybe unexplainable as you were starting to put things together in your research or having maybe the proposal people wanted you to do something that would push the envelope, would maybe answer some questions that people have asked for decades and no one wanted to reach to find those answers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, sure. Certainly some of the proposals were— in fact, particularly in the early days when we were doing surveys, it was a matter of simply trying to find the answers to the unknown. As far as my research, I made some interesting discoveries, but I guess I wouldn’t say that they were unknowable because I found them out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they were unknown at one time."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.058827560412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the fun of science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was saying that’s fun of astronomy because it’s a endless quest—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think any science field is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, when we look up at the stars, I guess that the one quick place that we know that you’re looking only a small part and there’s just so much more to see. You were the first astronomer for NASA, the first female senior executive, and your list of firsts go on and on, but looking back, did you at the time realize the ground that you were breaking for so many others? Not just for women but for other astronomers and for people who wanted to move into a field that they loved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I think I did but not something that I payed all that much attention to. I guess that’s the best way to put it. As far as other astronomers, I don’t know to what extent I broke the ice for them. I think the women’s movement generally broke the ice a lot more for them than the few of us who did things early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel your field of astronomy is certainly one that’s of value today for people to move into?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.73203062268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think any science field is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, when we look up at the stars, I guess that the one quick place that we know that you’re looking only a small part and there’s just so much more to see. You were the first astronomer for NASA, the first female senior executive, and your list of firsts go on and on, but looking back, did you at the time realize the ground that you were breaking for so many others? Not just for women but for other astronomers and for people who wanted to move into a field that they loved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I think I did but not something that I payed all that much attention to. I guess that’s the best way to put it. As far as other astronomers, I don’t know to what extent I broke the ice for them. I think the women’s movement generally broke the ice a lot more for them than the few of us who did things early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel your field of astronomy is certainly one that’s of value today for people to move into?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, although fresh Ph.D.s will tell you that jobs are very hard to get. They are if the job you want is a research position in a university. But very, very few astronomers are unemployed. So I would say yes. What I tell people about astronomy as a career is go in with your eyes open but if you really want to do it and you recognize the problems, do it. I mean, after all, when I graduated there were extremely few jobs in astronomy, to put it mildly, but then, of course, there were a lot fewer astronomers. This was right after the war when we had the influx of GIs coming in and getting degrees. Even at that time the average number of astron—Ph.D.s in the country was about—per year was about twenty-five, male and female. Today, well, it’s probably closer to 1,000. Maybe not that high, but it’s certainly several hundred. There just weren’t that many jobs either, as you can imagine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you feel like the taxpayers are still getting their money’s worth on—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.9780988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, when you look at the amount of money that’s going into astronomy, including both the space and ground-based program, which is very large by historical standards, and you compare that with the amount of money that’s going into, say, football or baseball or cigarettes or alcohol, it’s trivial. The question is which do you get more from, and I don’t know. It depends on who you are and what you want."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What your value is, that’s exactly right. When we were talking about, I was thinking about satellites, and even that word has changed, I guess, in its meaning for lots of people. I was going to ask you and I forgot earlier about your reaction or what your thoughts were when you first heard about Sputnik and, of course, and how that affected so much more. When you look up at the sky now, there’s more than just stars. You have artificial or man-made objects as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess mainly I was excited, and I was in NRL at that time and we immediately went over to the lab and started listening to it, but I don’t remember much beyond that, except for the excitement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, of course, there’s been so many more other objects that are up there now, and then, of course—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Now they’re sort of routine. You don’t even pay attention to launches of anything except manned launches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it like what a traveler riding down the street and they have this wonderful landscape they look, but they don’t look at the billboards? Is that how you do when you see this other space debris, or is that come to block your vision at all when you’re starting to—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.642332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess mainly I was excited, and I was in NRL at that time and we immediately went over to the lab and started listening to it, but I don’t remember much beyond that, except for the excitement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, of course, there’s been so many more other objects that are up there now, and then, of course—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Now they’re sort of routine. You don’t even pay attention to launches of anything except manned launches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it like what a traveler riding down the street and they have this wonderful landscape they look, but they don’t look at the billboards? Is that how you do when you see this other space debris, or is that come to block your vision at all when you’re starting to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, space debris doesn’t block vision, but it’s a problem in satellite safety, and it will be a problem in other ways eventually. But right now it’s primarily a matter of damage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess the other area that we were just curious about your involvement was the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. Did that cross your realm of possibility?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.49148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Now they’re sort of routine. You don’t even pay attention to launches of anything except manned launches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it like what a traveler riding down the street and they have this wonderful landscape they look, but they don’t look at the billboards? Is that how you do when you see this other space debris, or is that come to block your vision at all when you’re starting to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, space debris doesn’t block vision, but it’s a problem in satellite safety, and it will be a problem in other ways eventually. But right now it’s primarily a matter of damage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess the other area that we were just curious about your involvement was the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. Did that cross your realm of possibility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did, but not in a very major way. When NASA first became involved with it, I was handling that part of the program, but I never got very deeply involved in it, and it gradually went over to the planetary program. I have to admit that I had and still have mixed feelings about that. I think that the SETI Program is highly unlikely to succeed. I think there is life elsewhere in the universe. I can’t prove it, but I’d be very surprised if there isn’t, but that there would be life sufficiently like us in both capability and evolutionary status to communicate with us and yet still be near enough to communicate, I think personally is highly unlikely. On the other hand, there are people whom I respect very highly, scientists I respect very highly, who do think it’s worthwhile. So, as I say, I have mixed feelings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, but you’ve had such a very full career and still haven’t finished. You have so many more things that you’re doing now and sharing information. Are there other things that you can think of that you would like to add or maybe something that we didn’t cover or maybe something we just talked about briefly that you would like to add some other details on? I’m just kind of going through my notes and trying to make sure that—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 31.6572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, space debris doesn’t block vision, but it’s a problem in satellite safety, and it will be a problem in other ways eventually. But right now it’s primarily a matter of damage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess the other area that we were just curious about your involvement was the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. Did that cross your realm of possibility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did, but not in a very major way. When NASA first became involved with it, I was handling that part of the program, but I never got very deeply involved in it, and it gradually went over to the planetary program. I have to admit that I had and still have mixed feelings about that. I think that the SETI Program is highly unlikely to succeed. I think there is life elsewhere in the universe. I can’t prove it, but I’d be very surprised if there isn’t, but that there would be life sufficiently like us in both capability and evolutionary status to communicate with us and yet still be near enough to communicate, I think personally is highly unlikely. On the other hand, there are people whom I respect very highly, scientists I respect very highly, who do think it’s worthwhile. So, as I say, I have mixed feelings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, but you’ve had such a very full career and still haven’t finished. You have so many more things that you’re doing now and sharing information. Are there other things that you can think of that you would like to add or maybe something that we didn’t cover or maybe something we just talked about briefly that you would like to add some other details on? I’m just kind of going through my notes and trying to make sure that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I cant’ think of anything at the moment, but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have one thing that—when you were talking about your trip in 1956 to Russia, we talked about it, but you—some of the details. If you could share with us what it was like going to—was that your first trip also outside the country or—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I surely did. So those are my impressions of my first trip to Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of the observatories that you had the opportunity to visit, is there one that seems to stand out in your memory as, well, in fact, well, more than one of the others? And that might even have been influenced by the time that you’ve seen them. You’ve seen them so many times now that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as I said, I was—I don’t know. I don’t think of any that I feel—I have to admit the 200-inch telescope is pretty impressive, its dome, and the other things. Well, you know, the prime focus cage and so forth. I guess that I would say that was the most impressive that I’ve seen, although, well, I have not seen the really large telescopes in Hawaii, or even the one in Texas, which is a—well, yes, I have seen the one in Texas. No, no, I haven’t. I saw the 107-inch, but I haven’t seen the new one that they have which is a different type of telescope but very large. So I haven’t seen the really large telescopes that are coming up today. So I guess I would say that in my—things I’ve seen that I would count the 200-inch as the most impressive, although I have to admit that it’s sort of hard to pick one as standing out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least it’s nice that they’re changing so you have places to go now and more things to see and more adventures to have and things to learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, oh, yes. Yes. I’ve been to Mauna Kea [Hawaii] a couple of times but not since the really large [Keck] telescopes are up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ll be looking forward to hearing about your latest adventures as they become quickly history. You’ll be able to plan more and to do more things. We certainly have learned so much, and we certainly enjoyed speaking with you today."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00993:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as I said, I was—I don’t know. I don’t think of any that I feel—I have to admit the 200-inch telescope is pretty impressive, its dome, and the other things. Well, you know, the prime focus cage and so forth. I guess that I would say that was the most impressive that I’ve seen, although, well, I have not seen the really large telescopes in Hawaii, or even the one in Texas, which is a—well, yes, I have seen the one in Texas. No, no, I haven’t. I saw the 107-inch, but I haven’t seen the new one that they have which is a different type of telescope but very large. So I haven’t seen the really large telescopes that are coming up today. So I guess I would say that in my—things I’ve seen that I would count the 200-inch as the most impressive, although I have to admit that it’s sort of hard to pick one as standing out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least it’s nice that they’re changing so you have places to go now and more things to see and more adventures to have and things to learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, oh, yes. Yes. I’ve been to Mauna Kea [Hawaii] a couple of times but not since the really large [Keck] telescopes are up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ll be looking forward to hearing about your latest adventures as they become quickly history. You’ll be able to plan more and to do more things. We certainly have learned so much, and we certainly enjoyed speaking with you today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m glad you have. I sort of felt that I was rambling, but I’ve been interviewed so many times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not at all. No, it’s been wonderful with the details and we certainly hope again as we send this to you for your review that if you find more things that you would like include, please do and just thanks again for saving the day for us."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00771:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.823304334000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my case it didn't really have too much of a hindrance. Generally we always had interpreters and translators. The biggest problem was physically to take all these documents that we were working out the outlines and processes and physically turning them around into the Russian language. But generally speaking, it wasn't a real problem to deal with the Russians at a personal level. Partly because I had had a couple of years of Russian language training, albeit a long time ago in college and in high school, so I knew a little bit of the Russian. I could understand much more than I could speak, and a fair number of the Russians could speak English fairly well. Between that and having the interpreters and translators, it generally did not pose too much of a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess a common language was the success of the Priroda."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. I mean, much of the work that we were doing was either scientific or technical in nature, and once you understood what the goals of the activity were, it was very easy to communicate. Once you understood and outlined the details that needed to be provided, it was very easy because people were driving towards the same set of information to be exchanged."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Several years ago you jumped at the chance to do this. Now that you've been through it, would you be jumping at the chance again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I really thoroughly enjoyed all of the activity, and given the opportunity, I'd certainly do it over again. I'd kind of like to get more involved in some of what we're developing now for the International Space Station, especially with the Russians or some of the international partners. My biggest concern is that so many of the people, not only myself, but so many of us who went through this, some of them are going on to work on the station, but in many cases they are not, and that's probably my biggest concern, is that we make sure that we take what we have learned through this program and transmit it to the International Station Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a real-time lesson in real-time activity. Everything was moving at the same time and everybody was learning."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00771:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.91694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is a hobby.\n\nThis is one of the ways in which I got involved in the space program back when I was seven or eight years old, and I've continued that, although I don't build them too frequently anymore. But the Mir and the Shuttle were something that a lot of people in the program wanted these, and they were not generally accessible. So I went out and took bids on them and built a whole bunch for folks. So they're now disseminated all across the working force of the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you design it, or was there a package out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a couple of different packages, but I had to get it all together, and a lot of it did not have the kinds of detail to show the real equipment. So I had to do a lot of detail work and adding things, and also for different kinds of open houses and visitations, people really didn't have much of an idea of what the insides of the modules looked like. We had technical drawings and so on, so the cutaway of the module really shows a little bit better what the inside of the vehicle is like and what kinds of things we were working with. But that was also something that was generally not available and was very useful as an educational tool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It helps. And how many of the Shuttle-Mirs are -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I built about a dozen and a half of the Shuttles with the Mirs, and everybody from the program manager on down to different folks in the operations and the astronauts, those are pretty widely distributed right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of the astronauts, I notice you have an astronaut pin, not the pin but the pin that the astronauts give, a Snoopy. Tell us how you got that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00771:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.7966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a couple of different packages, but I had to get it all together, and a lot of it did not have the kinds of detail to show the real equipment. So I had to do a lot of detail work and adding things, and also for different kinds of open houses and visitations, people really didn't have much of an idea of what the insides of the modules looked like. We had technical drawings and so on, so the cutaway of the module really shows a little bit better what the inside of the vehicle is like and what kinds of things we were working with. But that was also something that was generally not available and was very useful as an educational tool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It helps. And how many of the Shuttle-Mirs are -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I built about a dozen and a half of the Shuttles with the Mirs, and everybody from the program manager on down to different folks in the operations and the astronauts, those are pretty widely distributed right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of the astronauts, I notice you have an astronaut pin, not the pin but the pin that the astronauts give, a Snoopy. Tell us how you got that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shannon Lucid gave me the silver Snoopy pin. That's probably the most significant recognition that I received from the program. That's something that you hear about, and especially on the NASA side not too many people received them, but I thought that was pretty nice, and I guess that was for my work with the Priroda. As I say, the experience of actually doing the job was really the best thing to come out of it, but the recognition on the side, like the silver Snoopy and some of the awards, were also nice. I didn't turn anything down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. I was going to ask Paul and Carol if they have any questions for you. Do you have anything you'd like to ask?\n\nI want to move the camera so I have a better backdrop and have you explain from one end of the module to the other."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00771:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I built about a dozen and a half of the Shuttles with the Mirs, and everybody from the program manager on down to different folks in the operations and the astronauts, those are pretty widely distributed right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of the astronauts, I notice you have an astronaut pin, not the pin but the pin that the astronauts give, a Snoopy. Tell us how you got that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shannon Lucid gave me the silver Snoopy pin. That's probably the most significant recognition that I received from the program. That's something that you hear about, and especially on the NASA side not too many people received them, but I thought that was pretty nice, and I guess that was for my work with the Priroda. As I say, the experience of actually doing the job was really the best thing to come out of it, but the recognition on the side, like the silver Snoopy and some of the awards, were also nice. I didn't turn anything down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. I was going to ask Paul and Carol if they have any questions for you. Do you have anything you'd like to ask?\n\nI want to move the camera so I have a better backdrop and have you explain from one end of the module to the other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's twelve Shuttle-Mirs, but only one of the -"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00771:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.86, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shannon Lucid gave me the silver Snoopy pin. That's probably the most significant recognition that I received from the program. That's something that you hear about, and especially on the NASA side not too many people received them, but I thought that was pretty nice, and I guess that was for my work with the Priroda. As I say, the experience of actually doing the job was really the best thing to come out of it, but the recognition on the side, like the silver Snoopy and some of the awards, were also nice. I didn't turn anything down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. I was going to ask Paul and Carol if they have any questions for you. Do you have anything you'd like to ask?\n\nI want to move the camera so I have a better backdrop and have you explain from one end of the module to the other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's twelve Shuttle-Mirs, but only one of the -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This one here? Yes, just one of those. At one time I was going to do Spektr also, but I never quite got to finish that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have had other things to do."}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 56.711011543161824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lee A. Gladwin, and began work on March 12, 1990, downtown branch [the National Archives Building in Washington, DC]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you retired in January?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "January 31, 2009"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me a little bit about your educational background and how the degree(s) that you pursued prepared you for a job at the National Archives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a history major primarily, I thought I was going to go into teaching but then changed my mind. One of the things I always thought would be nice would be to work at the National Archives and possibly the Library of Congress. That goes back to my junior high school days when I was doing research on various topics. I was overwhelmed by the amount of things I could find either here or there. Anyway my major would be history with a minor in English for example. My major period’s concentrations were Colonial American period up through the reconstruction. The topical area was social, cultural, and election history, and I have done virtually nothing with any of them but one article in the Journal of Social History on tobacco and sex, which you’re not old enough to read yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You actually started as a professor; you started out teaching before you came to the National Archives right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 60.79001282573536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "January 31, 2009"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me a little bit about your educational background and how the degree(s) that you pursued prepared you for a job at the National Archives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a history major primarily, I thought I was going to go into teaching but then changed my mind. One of the things I always thought would be nice would be to work at the National Archives and possibly the Library of Congress. That goes back to my junior high school days when I was doing research on various topics. I was overwhelmed by the amount of things I could find either here or there. Anyway my major would be history with a minor in English for example. My major period’s concentrations were Colonial American period up through the reconstruction. The topical area was social, cultural, and election history, and I have done virtually nothing with any of them but one article in the Journal of Social History on tobacco and sex, which you’re not old enough to read yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You actually started as a professor; you started out teaching before you came to the National Archives right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I started out as an assistant professor of history at what is now Shenandoah University in Winchester."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that prepare you for your career at the National Archives, or did it not prepare you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 66.4333475841504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a history major primarily, I thought I was going to go into teaching but then changed my mind. One of the things I always thought would be nice would be to work at the National Archives and possibly the Library of Congress. That goes back to my junior high school days when I was doing research on various topics. I was overwhelmed by the amount of things I could find either here or there. Anyway my major would be history with a minor in English for example. My major period’s concentrations were Colonial American period up through the reconstruction. The topical area was social, cultural, and election history, and I have done virtually nothing with any of them but one article in the Journal of Social History on tobacco and sex, which you’re not old enough to read yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You actually started as a professor; you started out teaching before you came to the National Archives right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I started out as an assistant professor of history at what is now Shenandoah University in Winchester."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that prepare you for your career at the National Archives, or did it not prepare you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, none of the things I did actually prepared me for work as an archivist specifically. What my association was always doing research and I did a great deal here beginning early-to-mid 1950’s and continuing up all the way to graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After leaving Shenandoah University, you went to work for University Research Corporation, SAIC, and On-Line Computers. What was that work like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.23910483976719, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t get everything out here. No, we were all just responsible for packing up pretty much our own things. We might have been asked to get some other things ready. I know everybody was living with boxes and packing them up and writing on the boxes their name and where they wanted these things to go when they got here. That was pretty exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Center was one of the first divisions to come out here, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we came in February now there were a few that come the previous fall. They were maybe administrative offices but we were one of the first of the divisions. I went back a few weeks or possibly a few months after we moved here I went back and visited old number 20 and just gagged. The dust was so thick. I always wondered why I was coughing and sneezing and I realized when I got back there we had all that 75 years of accumulated dust everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Crazy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You people do not know how much you have here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a great building."}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.821227599741322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we came in February now there were a few that come the previous fall. They were maybe administrative offices but we were one of the first of the divisions. I went back a few weeks or possibly a few months after we moved here I went back and visited old number 20 and just gagged. The dust was so thick. I always wondered why I was coughing and sneezing and I realized when I got back there we had all that 75 years of accumulated dust everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Crazy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You people do not know how much you have here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a great building."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, and you have space and it’s clean. What I did here prepared me for what I do now, which is now I’m actually being an archivist not just reference. The Leesburg United Methodist Church decided that they wanted a historian and it turned out that most of what I do is the work of an archivist; organizing all their materials and preparing accessioning lists and then…marking the location of things. In some cases things are underneath display cases, some of them are still in the church office, some of them are in people’s homes. They were told they needed to get things out of there during the war, and then when we started meeting again afterwards everyone was supposed to bring it back. Well, they didn't. That was the War Between the States and we’re still waiting for some of these people to bring them back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You sort of have been touching on various pieces of it, but let’s sort of take it from beginning to end, the reference function in the center for electronic records. From when something comes in, in whatever format it comes in what happens to it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.258691662462002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“N” always stood for whatever we were at the time (…) the National Archives would be “N.” I’m forgetting what the rest of it stood for. It was the acronym of the department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other one is NOIS?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "NOIS that would be the National Archives or NWME Order Information System; NALDS would be the NWME Automatic Log Data Sheet but “N” stood for all kinds of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about your professional involvement and as this is an interview for the National Archives Assembly, did you have any roles in the Assembly? Any impact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a member of the Assembly?"}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.954101847180002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NOIS that would be the National Archives or NWME Order Information System; NALDS would be the NWME Automatic Log Data Sheet but “N” stood for all kinds of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about your professional involvement and as this is an interview for the National Archives Assembly, did you have any roles in the Assembly? Any impact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a member of the Assembly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was a member but I was never an officer or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about any other professional organizations? Did you get out and spread the word?"}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.7267798302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a member of the Assembly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was a member but I was never an officer or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about any other professional organizations? Did you get out and spread the word?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one organization that I belonged to was one for cryptic analysts, cryptographers I’m trying to remember, I can’t remember now. Their main publication was crypto logia and I wrote quite a few articles for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had several articles in there."}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.140866478, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was a member but I was never an officer or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about any other professional organizations? Did you get out and spread the word?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one organization that I belonged to was one for cryptic analysts, cryptographers I’m trying to remember, I can’t remember now. Their main publication was crypto logia and I wrote quite a few articles for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had several articles in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got kind of pushed into it by John Taylor who kept telling me, “oh, you got to look at some of this stuff over here.” It had just come in and was being processed, and usually an archivist is just processing something, no one looks at it. John kept saying, “go over there, and take a look at this stuff.” So I did, and it just turned my life around for like 10, 15 years working on code breaking in both theaters: the European and the Pacific theater."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If John Taylor told you to do something you did it."}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.267629419999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one organization that I belonged to was one for cryptic analysts, cryptographers I’m trying to remember, I can’t remember now. Their main publication was crypto logia and I wrote quite a few articles for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had several articles in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got kind of pushed into it by John Taylor who kept telling me, “oh, you got to look at some of this stuff over here.” It had just come in and was being processed, and usually an archivist is just processing something, no one looks at it. John kept saying, “go over there, and take a look at this stuff.” So I did, and it just turned my life around for like 10, 15 years working on code breaking in both theaters: the European and the Pacific theater."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If John Taylor told you to do something you did it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And now I’m finding I’m having trouble doing the research when I should be working as an archivist. Boy, but for a while there, I was having a ball. I’d go down there, eat at my desk, and then gallop downstairs to the second floor and just read whatever I put in a slip for that morning. So I’d get 20 minutes or so in each day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think are the biggest challenges facing the National Archives?"}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.0751438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got kind of pushed into it by John Taylor who kept telling me, “oh, you got to look at some of this stuff over here.” It had just come in and was being processed, and usually an archivist is just processing something, no one looks at it. John kept saying, “go over there, and take a look at this stuff.” So I did, and it just turned my life around for like 10, 15 years working on code breaking in both theaters: the European and the Pacific theater."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If John Taylor told you to do something you did it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And now I’m finding I’m having trouble doing the research when I should be working as an archivist. Boy, but for a while there, I was having a ball. I’d go down there, eat at my desk, and then gallop downstairs to the second floor and just read whatever I put in a slip for that morning. So I’d get 20 minutes or so in each day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think are the biggest challenges facing the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, I really don’t know. I’m so busy thinking about the challenges of what I’m going to do as the archivist of this little church archives and also as of last week, I am also archivist of the Old Stone Church Foundation Archives. We are the oldest Methodist society in Virginia, founded in 1766. They got all these old records going way back. They need to be organized, they need to be preserved, all essentially the same things you’re doing here. It might not differ quite so much except, you got space!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any impressions, thoughts, or comments on any of the challenges that came up during your tenure here? How you think? I think the PROFS case would be one of the first things to come to mind, but I think that was prior to your arrival right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.972382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And now I’m finding I’m having trouble doing the research when I should be working as an archivist. Boy, but for a while there, I was having a ball. I’d go down there, eat at my desk, and then gallop downstairs to the second floor and just read whatever I put in a slip for that morning. So I’d get 20 minutes or so in each day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think are the biggest challenges facing the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, I really don’t know. I’m so busy thinking about the challenges of what I’m going to do as the archivist of this little church archives and also as of last week, I am also archivist of the Old Stone Church Foundation Archives. We are the oldest Methodist society in Virginia, founded in 1766. They got all these old records going way back. They need to be organized, they need to be preserved, all essentially the same things you’re doing here. It might not differ quite so much except, you got space!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any impressions, thoughts, or comments on any of the challenges that came up during your tenure here? How you think? I think the PROFS case would be one of the first things to come to mind, but I think that was prior to your arrival right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was here for that but it didn’t really affect my work, unless it involved getting some statistics right away. For example double checking figures given to us by the trust fund. I really didn’t have much to do with any of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Keeping under the radar.\n\nWhat would you say would be the significant turning points in your career?"}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.63598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, I really don’t know. I’m so busy thinking about the challenges of what I’m going to do as the archivist of this little church archives and also as of last week, I am also archivist of the Old Stone Church Foundation Archives. We are the oldest Methodist society in Virginia, founded in 1766. They got all these old records going way back. They need to be organized, they need to be preserved, all essentially the same things you’re doing here. It might not differ quite so much except, you got space!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any impressions, thoughts, or comments on any of the challenges that came up during your tenure here? How you think? I think the PROFS case would be one of the first things to come to mind, but I think that was prior to your arrival right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was here for that but it didn’t really affect my work, unless it involved getting some statistics right away. For example double checking figures given to us by the trust fund. I really didn’t have much to do with any of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Keeping under the radar.\n\nWhat would you say would be the significant turning points in your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were probably several. I think first just coming here as a junior high school kid and doing research and going to the Library of Congress too and just seeing all that information. The thought that was so much out there you could learn and know about some really interesting events or people. That was probably the first influence. And then much later meeting Herb Simon at Carnegie Melon, that was a total revolution in my head to start thinking about just “how do historians solve problems.” If you looked inside their mind, how would you find historical information organized, how would they retrieve it so quickly and easily? Could you do this for a student? That was sort of what I was doing when I came here. It also lent itself naturally to code breaking which was of interest to people in artificial intelligence and it certainly kept me occupied for a good many years. Though not much at this point, you’re just too far away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you view your time here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.2622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was here for that but it didn’t really affect my work, unless it involved getting some statistics right away. For example double checking figures given to us by the trust fund. I really didn’t have much to do with any of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Keeping under the radar.\n\nWhat would you say would be the significant turning points in your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were probably several. I think first just coming here as a junior high school kid and doing research and going to the Library of Congress too and just seeing all that information. The thought that was so much out there you could learn and know about some really interesting events or people. That was probably the first influence. And then much later meeting Herb Simon at Carnegie Melon, that was a total revolution in my head to start thinking about just “how do historians solve problems.” If you looked inside their mind, how would you find historical information organized, how would they retrieve it so quickly and easily? Could you do this for a student? That was sort of what I was doing when I came here. It also lent itself naturally to code breaking which was of interest to people in artificial intelligence and it certainly kept me occupied for a good many years. Though not much at this point, you’re just too far away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you view your time here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the past 45 minutes?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Somebody asked you to summarize your career here at the National Archives, however long you want to take to do it. What would you tell them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were probably several. I think first just coming here as a junior high school kid and doing research and going to the Library of Congress too and just seeing all that information. The thought that was so much out there you could learn and know about some really interesting events or people. That was probably the first influence. And then much later meeting Herb Simon at Carnegie Melon, that was a total revolution in my head to start thinking about just “how do historians solve problems.” If you looked inside their mind, how would you find historical information organized, how would they retrieve it so quickly and easily? Could you do this for a student? That was sort of what I was doing when I came here. It also lent itself naturally to code breaking which was of interest to people in artificial intelligence and it certainly kept me occupied for a good many years. Though not much at this point, you’re just too far away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you view your time here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the past 45 minutes?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Somebody asked you to summarize your career here at the National Archives, however long you want to take to do it. What would you tell them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would think of those things that I created that made our lives a whole lot easier. Including INPHYX and NALDS and NOIS and all the systems I’ve put together to help us print out requests for casualty lists, POW lists. I think about that a lot but I also think more and more about the people because it was really like a family. You do miss that when you go on and you miss the structure. What I’m trying to do now is sort of recapture that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I miss your coffee personally."}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 6.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the past 45 minutes?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Somebody asked you to summarize your career here at the National Archives, however long you want to take to do it. What would you tell them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would think of those things that I created that made our lives a whole lot easier. Including INPHYX and NALDS and NOIS and all the systems I’ve put together to help us print out requests for casualty lists, POW lists. I think about that a lot but I also think more and more about the people because it was really like a family. You do miss that when you go on and you miss the structure. What I’m trying to do now is sort of recapture that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I miss your coffee personally."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you. I do appreciate that. Yeah I used to think, if I can get the coffee made, make it properly. At least I’ve done one thing right today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were several mornings, cause I’m making the coffee now, there are certain mornings that it doesn’t get made."}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would think of those things that I created that made our lives a whole lot easier. Including INPHYX and NALDS and NOIS and all the systems I’ve put together to help us print out requests for casualty lists, POW lists. I think about that a lot but I also think more and more about the people because it was really like a family. You do miss that when you go on and you miss the structure. What I’m trying to do now is sort of recapture that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I miss your coffee personally."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you. I do appreciate that. Yeah I used to think, if I can get the coffee made, make it properly. At least I’ve done one thing right today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were several mornings, cause I’m making the coffee now, there are certain mornings that it doesn’t get made."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you heard the story about Peggy, didn’t you? This was one that Greg Lamotta told me. You may have heard it. Greg and I used to switch on and off making the coffee. Well anyway, one day Peggy came by and thanked him for the coffee and said that it was pretty good. He didn’t have the heart to tell her that he hadn’t made any coffee that day. She had gotten yesterday’s. Usually she gets in around 10, that time the coffee pot is off and it might be luke warm if she’s lucky, but she’ll drink it anyway. If you give her crankese oil, she’ll drink it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She’s been off coffee for a little while. I’m wondering if the world is beginning to spin off its axis because she hasn’t been drinking as much coffee anymore."}]}
+{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00007:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you. I do appreciate that. Yeah I used to think, if I can get the coffee made, make it properly. At least I’ve done one thing right today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were several mornings, cause I’m making the coffee now, there are certain mornings that it doesn’t get made."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you heard the story about Peggy, didn’t you? This was one that Greg Lamotta told me. You may have heard it. Greg and I used to switch on and off making the coffee. Well anyway, one day Peggy came by and thanked him for the coffee and said that it was pretty good. He didn’t have the heart to tell her that he hadn’t made any coffee that day. She had gotten yesterday’s. Usually she gets in around 10, that time the coffee pot is off and it might be luke warm if she’s lucky, but she’ll drink it anyway. If you give her crankese oil, she’ll drink it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She’s been off coffee for a little while. I’m wondering if the world is beginning to spin off its axis because she hasn’t been drinking as much coffee anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm, I’ll have to talk to her about that. Well I’ve been off it too for medical reasons. When the church secretary makes coffee I go over, I don’t drink it, I smell it; just the aroma of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the last question, I sort of had it on a list of questions that I had players choice. If there’s something you want to address, this is the question that has been rolling around in my head, that I think would sort of be a good summary and conclusion. Somebody from 10, 15 years down the road, they come across this interview, and they are just starting out their career at the National Archives. They pop this in, and they are watching it. What does Lee Gladwin want to tell the new NARA person who’s just starting here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.959118814303286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Stanonik."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Stanonik Van Hala, who lives in Moreno Valley, California. She was a volunteer in India, 1965 to '68. The way we usually start is I ask people to go back to the time, oh, six months or a year before you joined the Peace Corps and give us some idea of what you were doing. You can go back into your own background at that point and then we'll come up toward your deciding to join."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I was attending college the years before I joined the Peace Corps and I, I had met President Kennedy when I was touring with my senior high school group in the White House so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go to high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to high school at, in Ohio, and Mantua Corners was where we lived. But the school was called Crestwood High School. It was a conglomeration of several of the cities around. I had been raised in Hiram, Ohio, and I just moved over to this area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of area was it, farming or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.954576460336984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I was attending college the years before I joined the Peace Corps and I, I had met President Kennedy when I was touring with my senior high school group in the White House so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go to high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to high school at, in Ohio, and Mantua Corners was where we lived. But the school was called Crestwood High School. It was a conglomeration of several of the cities around. I had been raised in Hiram, Ohio, and I just moved over to this area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of area was it, farming or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, Hiram, where I spent most of my years was a small college town, but Mantua Corners more or less was an agricultural cum bedroom city becoming bedroom city for the outlying cities of Streetsboro, Akron, Cleveland. We were in a triangle between Cleveland, Akron, and Youngstown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the occasion for your meeting President Kennedy?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.055032667082697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, Hiram, where I spent most of my years was a small college town, but Mantua Corners more or less was an agricultural cum bedroom city becoming bedroom city for the outlying cities of Streetsboro, Akron, Cleveland. We were in a triangle between Cleveland, Akron, and Youngstown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the occasion for your meeting President Kennedy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was on our senior trip. We had raised money for our trip to Washington, and we were touring the White House and we were just at the end of the tour, a friend of mine, a girlfriend and I. And she turned around and I turned around. And President Kennedy had come down from the elevator from up above. And all of a sudden several of the other tourists were turning around and running after him. We came over more slowly, and of course, we were very much in awe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I managed to get a little thumb shake in there. So it was very, it was a very important occasion. And since when I went to college, I decided I would major in social studies and history and look for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year was it, the senior?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.94448477417617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I managed to get a little thumb shake in there. So it was very, it was a very important occasion. And since when I went to college, I decided I would major in social studies and history and look for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year was it, the senior?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This occurred in 1961. I graduated in '61. So it was the spring of that year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you studied the Peace Corps? At that point, had you heard of it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.6767029022651565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, I was still in college. And so I did take a, I was able to get a, it's not a scholarship, but an award to go to do a three month study in Washington, or no, a six month study in Washington called Washington Semester Program when I was a junior in college. And I went to Hiram College."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in that program, we were sent all over Washington, and that would have been in 1960. Actually, it was right after President Kennedy was killed. I had asked to be in that program hoping, you know, we'd get back in there and get some government work done and so forth. But then he was killed and it was in the, uh, from January till June of '64 that I attended that program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I became very interested in that type of work. And because we had had seminars with a lot of government officials and we were sent around to many, many different departments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you majoring in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.307447669183507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in that program, we were sent all over Washington, and that would have been in 1960. Actually, it was right after President Kennedy was killed. I had asked to be in that program hoping, you know, we'd get back in there and get some government work done and so forth. But then he was killed and it was in the, uh, from January till June of '64 that I attended that program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I became very interested in that type of work. And because we had had seminars with a lot of government officials and we were sent around to many, many different departments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you majoring in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Political science and history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any long-term goal at that point?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.008275187981674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I became very interested in that type of work. And because we had had seminars with a lot of government officials and we were sent around to many, many different departments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you majoring in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Political science and history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any long-term goal at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, at that point, I had hoped to go into government work of some type. I didn't know what kind. But, um, then I heard about the Peace Corps and I thought, well, after I graduated, this would be a good thing to go into before I make up my mind about going to graduate school or whatever I was going to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you particularly remember how you, how you heard about it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.786972431090748, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Political science and history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any long-term goal at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, at that point, I had hoped to go into government work of some type. I didn't know what kind. But, um, then I heard about the Peace Corps and I thought, well, after I graduated, this would be a good thing to go into before I make up my mind about going to graduate school or whatever I was going to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you particularly remember how you, how you heard about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember. I think it was just advertisements, probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Anyone would come on campus and talk?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.541080478989721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, at that point, I had hoped to go into government work of some type. I didn't know what kind. But, um, then I heard about the Peace Corps and I thought, well, after I graduated, this would be a good thing to go into before I make up my mind about going to graduate school or whatever I was going to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you particularly remember how you, how you heard about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember. I think it was just advertisements, probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Anyone would come on campus and talk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. No, I didn't hear anything like that. Hiram was pretty conservative. At any rate, I was very interested in traveling, so I thought this would be good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were coming close then to your finishing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.378978309988579, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember. I think it was just advertisements, probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Anyone would come on campus and talk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. No, I didn't hear anything like that. Hiram was pretty conservative. At any rate, I was very interested in traveling, so I thought this would be good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were coming close then to your finishing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I didn't ask for any particular area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the application process?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.49379740739174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, pages and pages and pages and pages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we took a very long test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I still remember part of that test today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, which part?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 11.659774897101933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we took a very long test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I still remember part of that test today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, which part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the part where they had words on paper that were only partially seen. Well, this was easy because, of course, in school we had been reading dittos, which we can never read. And when I was, you know, since I've been teaching, we still used dittos for years later. And the kids would always say, we can't read this. Pft, you can read it. Just look at it a little more carefully. What do you think those letters might be?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you study any foreign language?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.177527663446593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I still remember part of that test today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, which part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the part where they had words on paper that were only partially seen. Well, this was easy because, of course, in school we had been reading dittos, which we can never read. And when I was, you know, since I've been teaching, we still used dittos for years later. And the kids would always say, we can't read this. Pft, you can read it. Just look at it a little more carefully. What do you think those letters might be?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you study any foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In college, well, in high school, I studied Latin two years, and then I also studied French in college, two years of French and one year of Russian. And when we, when we went to India with the Peace Corps training, we had training in learning Hindi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well we'll get to that. So as of completing college, you had your bachelor's degree."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.752808514940659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the part where they had words on paper that were only partially seen. Well, this was easy because, of course, in school we had been reading dittos, which we can never read. And when I was, you know, since I've been teaching, we still used dittos for years later. And the kids would always say, we can't read this. Pft, you can read it. Just look at it a little more carefully. What do you think those letters might be?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you study any foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In college, well, in high school, I studied Latin two years, and then I also studied French in college, two years of French and one year of Russian. And when we, when we went to India with the Peace Corps training, we had training in learning Hindi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well we'll get to that. So as of completing college, you had your bachelor's degree."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And had you applied at that point before graduation?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.280898349934065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In college, well, in high school, I studied Latin two years, and then I also studied French in college, two years of French and one year of Russian. And when we, when we went to India with the Peace Corps training, we had training in learning Hindi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well we'll get to that. So as of completing college, you had your bachelor's degree."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And had you applied at that point before graduation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think I started the application process in January of my last year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any fallback? In other words, if I don't get in the Peace Corps then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.519627592511191, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think I started the application process in January of my last year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any fallback? In other words, if I don't get in the Peace Corps then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I had gotten, despite not wanting to, my high school certification for teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a fall back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, since you mentioned, you characterized, you said that Hiram was somewhat conservative."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.244030658345768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I had gotten, despite not wanting to, my high school certification for teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a fall back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, since you mentioned, you characterized, you said that Hiram was somewhat conservative."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did people, friends, family, colleagues react to your wanting to join the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.937811842606409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a fall back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, since you mentioned, you characterized, you said that Hiram was somewhat conservative."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did people, friends, family, colleagues react to your wanting to join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was very surprised that I had been selected to go to India because I didn't even know India was part of their program. And when I found out I was going to be working with a poultry project, I told people, oh, I'm, I'm going to India to work with a poultry project. And they thought I said poetry project, because coming from a liberal arts college, they hadn't expected anybody to go into that type of thing. And I really hadn't had any experience with poultry raising other than the fact that when I lived in Mantua there was a chicken farm near us and I did wash eggs. That's as close as I got to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember whether you had put that down on your application?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.597568714007121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did people, friends, family, colleagues react to your wanting to join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was very surprised that I had been selected to go to India because I didn't even know India was part of their program. And when I found out I was going to be working with a poultry project, I told people, oh, I'm, I'm going to India to work with a poultry project. And they thought I said poetry project, because coming from a liberal arts college, they hadn't expected anybody to go into that type of thing. And I really hadn't had any experience with poultry raising other than the fact that when I lived in Mantua there was a chicken farm near us and I did wash eggs. That's as close as I got to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember whether you had put that down on your application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I did. That must have got them. So I had washed eggs for several years, earning pennies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yeah. But did people think you were absolutely crazy or did they think that, you know, what in the world are they doing, sending you to India?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.145146560502617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I did. That must have got them. So I had washed eggs for several years, earning pennies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yeah. But did people think you were absolutely crazy or did they think that, you know, what in the world are they doing, sending you to India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, once I explained it, I think they thought I was a little crazy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And what are you doing that for? But I've always been a person that likes to do different things so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your family?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.18662789285569, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I was not a person that was going to go do some weird thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, um, they had had a little experience in that because of what, when I was a freshman in college, I, I applied for this job that said Maids for New York. And they had thought this was arranged through the college and it wasn't. It was some fly by night operation that was going to lock us in a room. We got there, we took out a bus ticket to New York, and they were going to, if we didn't get a job, they were going to lock us up because they had paid for our tickets. And so I was the only white person in the whole group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a little scary there. But I did get hired and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a maid?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.874030992061878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, um, they had had a little experience in that because of what, when I was a freshman in college, I, I applied for this job that said Maids for New York. And they had thought this was arranged through the college and it wasn't. It was some fly by night operation that was going to lock us in a room. We got there, we took out a bus ticket to New York, and they were going to, if we didn't get a job, they were going to lock us up because they had paid for our tickets. And so I was the only white person in the whole group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a little scary there. But I did get hired and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a maid?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as a maid. I worked as a maid one whole summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the city or out?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.415589991179864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a little scary there. But I did get hired and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a maid?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as a maid. I worked as a maid one whole summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the city or out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in the New Jersey side of New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Was it someone's summer home or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.017322212422071, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as a maid. I worked as a maid one whole summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the city or out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in the New Jersey side of New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Was it someone's summer home or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was a kind of a fanatic family. They, they were extremely concerned about everything being nit-picky clean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.463691347135635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in the New Jersey side of New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Was it someone's summer home or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was a kind of a fanatic family. They, they were extremely concerned about everything being nit-picky clean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the husband and wife didn't really get along, but they were quote unquote friends. So, at any rate, I just. She would come around with a white glove and everything. I mean, she was. I was on my hands and knees for hours scrubbing out waxed floors that had been waxed for years and never cleaned off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long do you last at that job?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.848545941261817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was a kind of a fanatic family. They, they were extremely concerned about everything being nit-picky clean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the husband and wife didn't really get along, but they were quote unquote friends. So, at any rate, I just. She would come around with a white glove and everything. I mean, she was. I was on my hands and knees for hours scrubbing out waxed floors that had been waxed for years and never cleaned off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long do you last at that job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three months. When she found out I was going back to college, she had a fit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. She didn't know that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.754680599393106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were so glad to find a white person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, they were very bigoted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Prejudiced. So they didn't ask me that and I didn't tell them. At any rate, I told them after a couple of weeks being there that I would be leaving to go back to school and they had a fit, so they just stomped and raged and then they reduced my, my fee and kept me locked up more. I mean, my payment, my salary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you survived?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.869976048633465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Prejudiced. So they didn't ask me that and I didn't tell them. At any rate, I told them after a couple of weeks being there that I would be leaving to go back to school and they had a fit, so they just stomped and raged and then they reduced my, my fee and kept me locked up more. I mean, my payment, my salary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you survived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I survived that. I mean, they rationed the food and everything. I only got a little teeny bit of food every day and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These rich people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And this was when, when in your college career?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.299973387370516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I survived that. I mean, they rationed the food and everything. I only got a little teeny bit of food every day and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These rich people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And this was when, when in your college career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at the end of my freshman year going into sophomore summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And by the time you graduated college, had you done any travel outside the United States?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.666637097078351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These rich people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And this was when, when in your college career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at the end of my freshman year going into sophomore summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And by the time you graduated college, had you done any travel outside the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think when we were, I was very young, we went to Canada, but mostly my parents didn't go anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. And then during college, you didn't, you went places but within the United States?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.962930107864834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at the end of my freshman year going into sophomore summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And by the time you graduated college, had you done any travel outside the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think when we were, I was very young, we went to Canada, but mostly my parents didn't go anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. And then during college, you didn't, you went places but within the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, okay, let's see. Yeah, I know I'd been in Washington and, of course, lived in Cleveland for a while. I worked in Cleveland during my junior year in an internship program there. But I had not traveled anywhere, I don't think, outside the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall getting the notification that you were being invited to India?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.29214456429426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think when we were, I was very young, we went to Canada, but mostly my parents didn't go anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. And then during college, you didn't, you went places but within the United States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, okay, let's see. Yeah, I know I'd been in Washington and, of course, lived in Cleveland for a while. I worked in Cleveland during my junior year in an internship program there. But I had not traveled anywhere, I don't think, outside the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall getting the notification that you were being invited to India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the Peace Corps."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.6579384047714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, okay, let's see. Yeah, I know I'd been in Washington and, of course, lived in Cleveland for a while. I worked in Cleveland during my junior year in an internship program there. But I had not traveled anywhere, I don't think, outside the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall getting the notification that you were being invited to India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very excited about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you did you have any idea where India was or what?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2814054379893824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very excited about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you did you have any idea where India was or what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I had studied Indian religions, just that, not knowing I was going there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had already studied that and I was very interested in the country already and it had quite a history. So, and since being a history major, I, I don't know if I took a history of India, but I was reading up on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had no hesitation about."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.646006042210425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I had studied Indian religions, just that, not knowing I was going there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had already studied that and I was very interested in the country already and it had quite a history. So, and since being a history major, I, I don't know if I took a history of India, but I was reading up on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had no hesitation about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. I know people told me that it was going to be terrible in terms of the poverty and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. People back."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.05111782467825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had already studied that and I was very interested in the country already and it had quite a history. So, and since being a history major, I, I don't know if I took a history of India, but I was reading up on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had no hesitation about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. I know people told me that it was going to be terrible in terms of the poverty and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. People back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that we were, we were very well. During the training, we were very well prepared for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then you're accepted, you finish your degree."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.501242027420277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. I know people told me that it was going to be terrible in terms of the poverty and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. People back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that we were, we were very well. During the training, we were very well prepared for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then you're accepted, you finish your degree."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how soon after did you report?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.890268919355863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that we were, we were very well. During the training, we were very well prepared for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then you're accepted, you finish your degree."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how soon after did you report?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Immediately. I think within a week or two of the end of my school, graduating, we went right to training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go into training with the expectation that you would go from training directly to India or that you would have a chance to come back home for a leave? Do you recall that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.322521021506514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how soon after did you report?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Immediately. I think within a week or two of the end of my school, graduating, we went right to training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go into training with the expectation that you would go from training directly to India or that you would have a chance to come back home for a leave? Do you recall that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't really matter to me because I really had lived away from home when I was in college. But, um, I think they told us we were going to have a short leave before we went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, you have to pack up and stuff like that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.336445705563597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't really matter to me because I really had lived away from home when I was in college. But, um, I think they told us we were going to have a short leave before we went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, you have to pack up and stuff like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I also remember I was trying to get my driver's license."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had tried several times, but I, at that, when I was young, I was so nervous that every time I went in there to take that test, I couldn't do it. I was so cautious. And finally, this last time, I ended up driving a car that was not even mine, and I wasn't familiar with it even. And I was just determined I was going to get it. And I think the guy finally got tired of seeing me there and he said, well, you can learn how to drive in India. And I told him I was going to India. That's probably how I got my license. I didn't realize I wasn't going to be driving a car in India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the local paper make note of the fact that you had joined and it was Peace Corps in India?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.929384117292885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I also remember I was trying to get my driver's license."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had tried several times, but I, at that, when I was young, I was so nervous that every time I went in there to take that test, I couldn't do it. I was so cautious. And finally, this last time, I ended up driving a car that was not even mine, and I wasn't familiar with it even. And I was just determined I was going to get it. And I think the guy finally got tired of seeing me there and he said, well, you can learn how to drive in India. And I told him I was going to India. That's probably how I got my license. I didn't realize I wasn't going to be driving a car in India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the local paper make note of the fact that you had joined and it was Peace Corps in India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, probably did, but I, I don't know if. My parents cleaned out most of my stuff and threw it out, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. It's interesting, you're of the early generation of people who joined the Peace Corps after Kennedy had died. And, of course, in the early days, joining was always somehow related to President Kennedy."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.802749759629455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He and his brother, having worked so hard with the civil rights and everything. Of course, that really came after we were over in India but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just his ideas were so different from what, and of course, my parents were Democrats. They were solid Democrats so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was, uh. And to have such a young president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So, I mean, go in '65 when you went in, there was there was still some association."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.558610844032727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just his ideas were so different from what, and of course, my parents were Democrats. They were solid Democrats so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was, uh. And to have such a young president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So, I mean, go in '65 when you went in, there was there was still some association."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I mean, just the idea of the Peace Corps, I thought was such a great idea. And I knew he had started and Sargent Shriver was carrying it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You reported for training."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.331618325966328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I mean, just the idea of the Peace Corps, I thought was such a great idea. And I knew he had started and Sargent Shriver was carrying it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You reported for training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me where."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.326654970227599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was assigned, of course, the women's dorm. And our training consisted of getting up early in the morning for exercise program. We did a Royal Canadian Air Force exercise program and then we did running."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were running the mile by the end, which to me was a lot. Nowadays it's nothing. But those days nobody jogged."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So at any rate, we went to classes all day long, had a little break for dinner, of course, lunch and dinner. And then we went on in the evening till like 10:30, 11:00. So it was very intensive training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was it scheduled for, the?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.585172189141777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were running the mile by the end, which to me was a lot. Nowadays it's nothing. But those days nobody jogged."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So at any rate, we went to classes all day long, had a little break for dinner, of course, lunch and dinner. And then we went on in the evening till like 10:30, 11:00. So it was very intensive training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was it scheduled for, the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, I believe, about 12 weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And do you remember the number of approximate number of trainees?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8724135434908633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So at any rate, we went to classes all day long, had a little break for dinner, of course, lunch and dinner. And then we went on in the evening till like 10:30, 11:00. So it was very intensive training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was it scheduled for, the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, I believe, about 12 weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And do you remember the number of approximate number of trainees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were about 103 or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the male female break on that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.191570603878737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, I believe, about 12 weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And do you remember the number of approximate number of trainees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were about 103 or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the male female break on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was half and half, but I'm not really sure. I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point, did you know that you were about to become India 16? It was there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7056427208379463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was half and half, but I'm not really sure. I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point, did you know that you were about to become India 16? It was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. We were, I think we were called India 16 from the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really can't remember how many women there were compared to men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's, that's okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0062696898199404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. We were, I think we were called India 16 from the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really can't remember how many women there were compared to men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's, that's okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't pay attention to that, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on a seven day a week schedule with the training or did you get?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3402996553554893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really can't remember how many women there were compared to men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's, that's okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't pay attention to that, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on a seven day a week schedule with the training or did you get?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, it seems to me we were, because we always had to take care of the chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that from day one?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.711444061506099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't pay attention to that, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on a seven day a week schedule with the training or did you get?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, it seems to me we were, because we always had to take care of the chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that from day one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And tell me about taking care of the chickens."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.1238267350067765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, it seems to me we were, because we always had to take care of the chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that from day one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And tell me about taking care of the chickens."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, our classes consisted of learning Hindi, of course, which was usually in set conversations to memorize, for learning how to take care of chickens. And also we had to do cultural classes. And of course, the physical training part, just getting ourselves in shape. And, um, let's see. And then just, I think some history classes about India just to give us information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything in the name of American studies, learning about U.S.? You mentioned Great Books."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6343539938355267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, our classes consisted of learning Hindi, of course, which was usually in set conversations to memorize, for learning how to take care of chickens. And also we had to do cultural classes. And of course, the physical training part, just getting ourselves in shape. And, um, let's see. And then just, I think some history classes about India just to give us information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything in the name of American studies, learning about U.S.? You mentioned Great Books."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We, um, we used the Great Books to, as a guideline to. We did a lot of reading in those areas and then discussed them in relation to some of the things we might meet as we got to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now you had asked about whether we have seven day a week training. I know we must have had some let-up on Saturdays and Sundays, but I don't can't recall exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember when you're first checking in or during the first week or two, how you measured yourself up against the others who, you know, who were trainees? Here are a bunch of people who had joined."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3799024444985923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just that I was very shy and I had been raised to be seen, not heard. Six kids in a house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was in the middle. So at any rate, I was not accustomed to speaking my mind about things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't learn how to do that till the end. I was almost 38."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then that must have related to the selection process."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5332249383317693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was in the middle. So at any rate, I was not accustomed to speaking my mind about things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't learn how to do that till the end. I was almost 38."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then that must have related to the selection process."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were a little concerned at the end whether I might make it or not, because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what the selection process was? I mean, how? Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.703583264813077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't learn how to do that till the end. I was almost 38."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then that must have related to the selection process."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were a little concerned at the end whether I might make it or not, because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what the selection process was? I mean, how? Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, part of it was, of course, we had to learn how to take care of the chickens. That was easy for me and running and all the physical part, that was easy. And I had no problems with anything, um, grading and writing. I've always been very good at writing and anything that was required for grade wise, that kind of thing. But speaking was not something I did. I would speak up once in a while, but I was very shy about that.\n\nBut during the final process I remember we had to completely clean out the chicken houses and take care of all of that. And then these returned Peace Corps volunteers told us we had to break the neck of a chicken in order to pass. Now, I think that was, they were just pulling our legs, but that was pretty gross. And some of the girls wouldn't do it, but I did it. And then another part of it was I remember there were a group of professors that were questioning me about being in India and they were going on and on about different things. And would I be worried about not seeing my family and not dating and all of this type of thing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a group interviewing you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8928702942367523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were a little concerned at the end whether I might make it or not, because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what the selection process was? I mean, how? Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, part of it was, of course, we had to learn how to take care of the chickens. That was easy for me and running and all the physical part, that was easy. And I had no problems with anything, um, grading and writing. I've always been very good at writing and anything that was required for grade wise, that kind of thing. But speaking was not something I did. I would speak up once in a while, but I was very shy about that.\n\nBut during the final process I remember we had to completely clean out the chicken houses and take care of all of that. And then these returned Peace Corps volunteers told us we had to break the neck of a chicken in order to pass. Now, I think that was, they were just pulling our legs, but that was pretty gross. And some of the girls wouldn't do it, but I did it. And then another part of it was I remember there were a group of professors that were questioning me about being in India and they were going on and on about different things. And would I be worried about not seeing my family and not dating and all of this type of thing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a group interviewing you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it was?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3368769064651262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About three. I think a couple of the returned volunteers and about two or three other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might have been the project coordinator and somebody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the returned volunteers built into the training from the very beginning"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5965298960723624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About three. I think a couple of the returned volunteers and about two or three other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might have been the project coordinator and somebody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the returned volunteers built into the training from the very beginning"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They did a lot of comical things to show us some of the situations in India, skits and things. And we had a, we did some talent show type things too, as we went along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any Indians involved in the training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5617694047631856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe there was one man at least who was working with us on the Hindi and some of the cultural aspects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm sure when you interview my husband, you'll get more along those details."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a very naive person at that stage of the game."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Uh. Did you have any training? So you. Was there a level of Hindi fluency you were expected to reach?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.957521560847984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm sure when you interview my husband, you'll get more along those details."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a very naive person at that stage of the game."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Uh. Did you have any training? So you. Was there a level of Hindi fluency you were expected to reach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had our final testing in that and I think I got an S plus or something like that, whatever, on the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know of any in the group who were who flunked out because of the Hindi?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1941310848394835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I don't, I don't recall anybody who flunked out because of the, the Hindi problem. There were some that either had family problems or something like that. We didn't lose too many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were. There was one other thing I remember they did with us as part of our final training, our selection. They took us to, let's see, I guess it was somewhere around Annapolis. They took us out in the boondocks. There was a couple of different things. They took us out in the boondocks and dropped us off and wanted us to make our way for a day or two. Out in these country roads, dirt roads somewhere. And it seems like we ended up just going to some churches or something and getting some help from them. And somehow, it's kind of foggy. I can't remember everything, but I know there was another instance where they dropped us off in downtown, some slum area. I don't know if it was Annapolis or some city right near there. And they wanted us to make our way at night in that area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And those didn't bother me any because our group worked together in small groups and we took care of whatever it was we had to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's very, I guess it's variations on the Outward Bound concept of, you know, there are points where you're challenged to face the problem."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.660145649821648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were. There was one other thing I remember they did with us as part of our final training, our selection. They took us to, let's see, I guess it was somewhere around Annapolis. They took us out in the boondocks. There was a couple of different things. They took us out in the boondocks and dropped us off and wanted us to make our way for a day or two. Out in these country roads, dirt roads somewhere. And it seems like we ended up just going to some churches or something and getting some help from them. And somehow, it's kind of foggy. I can't remember everything, but I know there was another instance where they dropped us off in downtown, some slum area. I don't know if it was Annapolis or some city right near there. And they wanted us to make our way at night in that area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And those didn't bother me any because our group worked together in small groups and we took care of whatever it was we had to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's very, I guess it's variations on the Outward Bound concept of, you know, there are points where you're challenged to face the problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if there were African Americans in the training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.066828499801831, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And those didn't bother me any because our group worked together in small groups and we took care of whatever it was we had to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's very, I guess it's variations on the Outward Bound concept of, you know, there are points where you're challenged to face the problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if there were African Americans in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think there were. I mean, I should get out my old Peace Corps book and look through. We, we used to keep tabs with it up until about '82 when we moved out here to California. After that, we kind of lost track."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So training went on. Was it, did it last 12 weeks?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.1853649997798121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if there were African Americans in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think there were. I mean, I should get out my old Peace Corps book and look through. We, we used to keep tabs with it up until about '82 when we moved out here to California. After that, we kind of lost track."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So training went on. Was it, did it last 12 weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. As I recall, we were finished sometime near the end of August or early September, and then we went home for a week or so. That's when I got my driver's license. And then then we were told to report to New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now let's go back to the language training. Was it your understanding that you would be working in Hindi or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.2288456787405089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. As I recall, we were finished sometime near the end of August or early September, and then we went home for a week or so. That's when I got my driver's license. And then then we were told to report to New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now let's go back to the language training. Was it your understanding that you would be working in Hindi or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were told that it would be to our benefit to know Hindi. Most of our people were going to areas where English was well spoken, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it's a good thing we did get the Hindi training because we were dealing with a lot of very poor people out in the rural areas and they didn't speak English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, is Hindi the common language throughout India?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.25427297637834323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were told that it would be to our benefit to know Hindi. Most of our people were going to areas where English was well spoken, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it's a good thing we did get the Hindi training because we were dealing with a lot of very poor people out in the rural areas and they didn't speak English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, is Hindi the common language throughout India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. India has at least 16 major languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's what I thought."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.2825255293092703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it's a good thing we did get the Hindi training because we were dealing with a lot of very poor people out in the rural areas and they didn't speak English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, is Hindi the common language throughout India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. India has at least 16 major languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's what I thought."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And thousands of, hundreds of dialects. So Hindi was, and English are the universal languages in that country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone, did you have any sessions talking about, you studied the culture, in which you were prepared to deal with Indian English, which is not quite the same as American?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.38755216640503465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I believe that sometimes in the skits they used the Indian English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I can't recall it after that. It took me a while to pick it up and to talk like they are talking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I will listen to you. You are coming now and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And tuning in to the pattern, I mean. So overall, what was the role of the returned volunteers? Was it helpful? Did they overdo it? Were they like veterans trying to scare?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.4784594646975736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I will listen to you. You are coming now and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And tuning in to the pattern, I mean. So overall, what was the role of the returned volunteers? Was it helpful? Did they overdo it? Were they like veterans trying to scare?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they were blazing a trail and I don't think anybody had given them much guidance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They weren't, you know, people who had been trained on how to teach other people or anything, but they did, it did help us. And it was encouraging to see they were still alive after the whole thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had they been in a chicken project or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5906906971574982, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They weren't, you know, people who had been trained on how to teach other people or anything, but they did, it did help us. And it was encouraging to see they were still alive after the whole thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had they been in a chicken project or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember what their projects were. One of them might have been, because they knew how to do the chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So maybe somebody must have been in one, in the chicken project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the time you were going, do you have any idea what the total number of volunteers in India was, say, as about '65?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6563229968416646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember what their projects were. One of them might have been, because they knew how to do the chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So maybe somebody must have been in one, in the chicken project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the time you were going, do you have any idea what the total number of volunteers in India was, say, as about '65?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, did you have any sense of the project?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8102753047427957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, did you have any sense of the project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure we did at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were several groups in India at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you had a sense it was a big project."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1114887582205701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And there were different. There were several people in the poultry project, several different groups in that and several. Of course, we're India 16, so there were only that many totally. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That had been in the country in the history anyway. But I know there were some projects that were in health areas too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were fortunate with the poultry project because that was one the state or the country of India really supported. They didn't always support the other projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall final selection that, did they announce you're going and you're not or anything?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.524675937202428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall that it was anything mysterious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I was so naive. I just figured, why wouldn't they let me go?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, it didn't bother me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any sense of who might be going with you? In other words, were you clustered?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6940843746693646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I was so naive. I just figured, why wouldn't they let me go?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, it didn't bother me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any sense of who might be going with you? In other words, were you clustered?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I know that when they finally, when we finally got to India and they told us who my partner was going to be, I was disappointed. It was not one of the, they put me with a very strong- willed other girl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it may have been because she was so strong."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8823159718548494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, it didn't bother me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any sense of who might be going with you? In other words, were you clustered?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I know that when they finally, when we finally got to India and they told us who my partner was going to be, I was disappointed. It was not one of the, they put me with a very strong- willed other girl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it may have been because she was so strong."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they thought I was too meek and mild. They just didn't know me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So was there a graduation exercise?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0914621909498328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I know that when they finally, when we finally got to India and they told us who my partner was going to be, I was disappointed. It was not one of the, they put me with a very strong- willed other girl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it may have been because she was so strong."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they thought I was too meek and mild. They just didn't know me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So was there a graduation exercise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We probably did have one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone come, do you remember anyone coming out from Washington during your training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3238468788331477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they thought I was too meek and mild. They just didn't know me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So was there a graduation exercise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We probably did have one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone come, do you remember anyone coming out from Washington during your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were probably some bigwigs there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't meet Shriver."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5820520875923862, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We probably did have one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone come, do you remember anyone coming out from Washington during your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were probably some bigwigs there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't meet Shriver."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You went home for a couple of days. Did you come home as a hero? Did people?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.86894676399154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were probably some bigwigs there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't meet Shriver."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You went home for a couple of days. Did you come home as a hero? Did people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my. I just came home. Nobody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your folks try to discourage you at that point?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.187718626657267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You went home for a couple of days. Did you come home as a hero? Did people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my. I just came home. Nobody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your folks try to discourage you at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or they knew you were for it."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5419095851747406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my. I just came home. Nobody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your folks try to discourage you at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or they knew you were for it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My parents, my mom was a nurse. She's just always accepts what's there. Six kids. You get used to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your siblings? They must have kidded you some."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.372727882931779, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My parents, my mom was a nurse. She's just always accepts what's there. Six kids. You get used to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your siblings? They must have kidded you some."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Meh, probably. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of them were gone, were not home. I think only my younger, well, even my younger sister and brother were probably gone by then so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You reported to New York then. Do you remember approximately when this was?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.052750472755281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of them were gone, were not home. I think only my younger, well, even my younger sister and brother were probably gone by then so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You reported to New York then. Do you remember approximately when this was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We reported about, I think it was either the second or third week of September of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1965."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And at that point, your expectation was you were on your way to India?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3919449697280903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We reported about, I think it was either the second or third week of September of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1965."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And at that point, your expectation was you were on your way to India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember where you staged in New York? Was it at a hotel?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7688277441423224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And at that point, your expectation was you were on your way to India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember where you staged in New York? Was it at a hotel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed at one of the hotels in New York. I don't know which one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That, that, yeah. So it was a hotel."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.187586382380358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember where you staged in New York? Was it at a hotel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed at one of the hotels in New York. I don't know which one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That, that, yeah. So it was a hotel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And we were right downtown somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you had a few days to."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.058748620222664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And we were right downtown somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you had a few days to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we, um, when we got there, we found out. Actually we went first to the airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had flown from Cleveland to the New York airport, and we were supposed to be taking off from there directly to India. But then we got the news that China was threatening to invade India in the northern areas where our Peace Corps volunteers were going to be sent. So they decided that that would be too unsafe to send, I think there were 300 of us at that time, three different groups going in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you all had gathered at the airport?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.509720689136293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we, um, when we got there, we found out. Actually we went first to the airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had flown from Cleveland to the New York airport, and we were supposed to be taking off from there directly to India. But then we got the news that China was threatening to invade India in the northern areas where our Peace Corps volunteers were going to be sent. So they decided that that would be too unsafe to send, I think there were 300 of us at that time, three different groups going in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you all had gathered at the airport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it going to be a charter flight then? Several charter flights?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.332988505106534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it going to be a charter flight then? Several charter flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two or three flights. And so they were all canceled. And they put us up for a week in New York until they decided where to send the groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All 300?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, big bill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so there were people who had trained at other places?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.814431672340593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two or three flights. And so they were all canceled. And they put us up for a week in New York until they decided where to send the groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All 300?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, big bill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so there were people who had trained at other places?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For other projects?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.349368524822881, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, big bill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so there were people who had trained at other places?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For other projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not certain now what their numbers of their group was. They were not, um, they were not located near our training area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Were they all chicken people?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.731644066972402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure. My memory fails in that respect because I didn't pay much attention to those groups. I do know that we were sent, after a week in New York, they finally decided to send our India 16 to Israel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the other groups, one was sent to Guam and I'm not sure where the other one was sent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Guam?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And at any rate, we went to Israel and we were given a tour of the country for a week by bus, which was really nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that just a gesture on the part of the Israeli government?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.841535885151113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And at any rate, we went to Israel and we were given a tour of the country for a week by bus, which was really nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that just a gesture on the part of the Israeli government?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they knew where to send us. They were probably working out the details with the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And finally after that they sent us to the kibbutz to work, the different. We were split up on three different kibbutzim and then we just filled in their summer labor group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went, when you were assigned out to a kibbutz, was it, well, you'll be here for six weeks, eight weeks?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.490595427945681, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they knew where to send us. They were probably working out the details with the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And finally after that they sent us to the kibbutz to work, the different. We were split up on three different kibbutzim and then we just filled in their summer labor group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went, when you were assigned out to a kibbutz, was it, well, you'll be here for six weeks, eight weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had no idea how long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was open ended?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.432833861661334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had no idea how long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was open ended?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was open ended. We ended up being in Israel 40 days and 40 nights. So that was a very unique experience. And actually that's where I first suffered food shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they only served us certain things to eat. And we were working really hard in the fields, picking, weeding, all very physical labor. So we were up at 5:30 or 5:00 in the morning and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Where was the kibbutz that you were?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.3615232860016455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they only served us certain things to eat. And we were working really hard in the fields, picking, weeding, all very physical labor. So we were up at 5:30 or 5:00 in the morning and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Where was the kibbutz that you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, we were near the northern part of Israel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ramat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You weren't down in the Negev?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4705469796298742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the other thing that they always served every meal was cucumbers, tomatoes, and eggs, hard boiled eggs. I liked hard boiled eggs and sour cream on it. They called it laban."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had never had sour cream like that before or whatever. It's kind of like a yogurt, a thick yogurt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At any rate, that was, the food was really hard to get it used to, I mean, because we were starving. And the best time of the day was when about 4:00 in the afternoon when they had tea and we could have bread. They had really good bread and butter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this time, was there a Peace Corps? Did Peace Corps stay in touch with you while you were on the kibbutz? And like every week or so say, well, we're working on it or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.85616331069986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had never had sour cream like that before or whatever. It's kind of like a yogurt, a thick yogurt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At any rate, that was, the food was really hard to get it used to, I mean, because we were starving. And the best time of the day was when about 4:00 in the afternoon when they had tea and we could have bread. They had really good bread and butter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this time, was there a Peace Corps? Did Peace Corps stay in touch with you while you were on the kibbutz? And like every week or so say, well, we're working on it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We inquired, but we didn't hear a whole lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, were you beginning to get discouraged, I mean?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.284625900777622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At any rate, that was, the food was really hard to get it used to, I mean, because we were starving. And the best time of the day was when about 4:00 in the afternoon when they had tea and we could have bread. They had really good bread and butter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this time, was there a Peace Corps? Did Peace Corps stay in touch with you while you were on the kibbutz? And like every week or so say, well, we're working on it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We inquired, but we didn't hear a whole lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, were you beginning to get discouraged, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were enjoying it. We, we loved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.055093704663731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were enjoying it. We, we loved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were about 30 of us on this kibbutz, and we got together and did some singing with the Hebrew people and in the evenings and participated in some of their activities, although they only spoke Hebrew. And of course we had no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had a real language problem. But yeah, they were, they were very helpful as best they could. And considering we couldn't speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were no Hindi speakers."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.50565967184859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were about 30 of us on this kibbutz, and we got together and did some singing with the Hebrew people and in the evenings and participated in some of their activities, although they only spoke Hebrew. And of course we had no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had a real language problem. But yeah, they were, they were very helpful as best they could. And considering we couldn't speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were no Hindi speakers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, of course. But."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you begin, you must have begun to lose your Hindi then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.0694920052792725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, we probably lost some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because you know, if you don't keep at it, boy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At any rate, um, we did do a lot of cultural things as I recall. There were some things we watched them do and they used to have entertainment in the evening of some kind. There was no TV or anything like that. We were just in little shacks with, in fact, we had bedbugs. I mean, it was pretty bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was an introduction."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.632768894754747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because you know, if you don't keep at it, boy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At any rate, um, we did do a lot of cultural things as I recall. There were some things we watched them do and they used to have entertainment in the evening of some kind. There was no TV or anything like that. We were just in little shacks with, in fact, we had bedbugs. I mean, it was pretty bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was an introduction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To another part of the world."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.731813450314502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To another part of the world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Finally, after."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After 30 or 40 days and 40 nights, we were sent to India and we went to New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you flew in as a group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.841745000388274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After 30 or 40 days and 40 nights, we were sent to India and we went to New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you flew in as a group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we flew in. They had gathered all of us together. It was good to see everybody again. And yeah, the one thing I really remember about our whole group is that it was the first time I was ever with a lot of people that thought the same way I did. I mean, they must have selected us by personal psychological characteristics, I'm sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was amazing that there were so many that thought the same way. At any rate, we were sent to India and New Delhi and I think we were just there a few days and then they sent us out to our sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in New Delhi, did you, you got your assignment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.490827778209193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we flew in. They had gathered all of us together. It was good to see everybody again. And yeah, the one thing I really remember about our whole group is that it was the first time I was ever with a lot of people that thought the same way I did. I mean, they must have selected us by personal psychological characteristics, I'm sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was amazing that there were so many that thought the same way. At any rate, we were sent to India and New Delhi and I think we were just there a few days and then they sent us out to our sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in New Delhi, did you, you got your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you became aware of who your partner would be. Did you have, were you at all familiar with the area you were being sent to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9639849113693744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you became aware of who your partner would be. Did you have, were you at all familiar with the area you were being sent to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, um, I was sent to Satara, Maharashtra, which was south of Pune, and it is in central India about a day and a half trip from Bombay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, the area was once the, I guess, the capital of the kingdom in that the Maharaja, the Marathi kingdom. But it was a very difficult area to get to. We had to go by train to Pune and then by bus to Satara and it was very windy up mountains, around hairpin curves and things like that. So very isolated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of you were at that point, when you're on the bus?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1822054570770826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, um, I was sent to Satara, Maharashtra, which was south of Pune, and it is in central India about a day and a half trip from Bombay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, the area was once the, I guess, the capital of the kingdom in that the Maharaja, the Marathi kingdom. But it was a very difficult area to get to. We had to go by train to Pune and then by bus to Satara and it was very windy up mountains, around hairpin curves and things like that. So very isolated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of you were at that point, when you're on the bus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were, there were just two of us. Another girl and I were sent to serve in Satara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you meet an Indian counterpart who was going to guide your way through this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.424672730085647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, the area was once the, I guess, the capital of the kingdom in that the Maharaja, the Marathi kingdom. But it was a very difficult area to get to. We had to go by train to Pune and then by bus to Satara and it was very windy up mountains, around hairpin curves and things like that. So very isolated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of you were at that point, when you're on the bus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were, there were just two of us. Another girl and I were sent to serve in Satara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you meet an Indian counterpart who was going to guide your way through this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As soon as we got there, we were greeted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got to where, there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9542835803643996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Got to Satara. We were greeted by a mister, Dr. Bhave, B- H-A-V-E. He was the poultry officer there, and he showed us where we were going to stay. He had temporary housing set up for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And as I recall, I'm not sure if we stayed in one of their little hotel, and they don't call them hotels, hostels or something like that for a couple of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Guesthouse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Guesthouse or something like that, until they found a place for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They, they found the place where, they being just Dr. Bhave?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4126957782276537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Guesthouse or something like that, until they found a place for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They, they found the place where, they being just Dr. Bhave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the government was required to supply housing for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of the deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's a gift from Dr. Bhave. And, um. The, uh. So you had a week or two to settle into the setting, or did you go to work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9786367632440163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of the deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's a gift from Dr. Bhave. And, um. The, uh. So you had a week or two to settle into the setting, or did you go to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think either. We went to work right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to, we went to work right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3095964036044623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think either. We went to work right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to, we went to work right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would go down to the poultry office. And at that point, they had, they not only had poultry, they had Brahma bulls and several other things. They did artificial insemination with the bulls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had an office and they had bulls in the office?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.539912762146038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a, you know, the stable. I mean, the whole. The office was on several acres of land, and they had their main interest at that point was agriculture in terms of artificial insemination for building up the breed of Brahma bulls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they used those to pull their carts still. There were no poultry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were to start it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. You didn't, did you. you didn't know that going in or you did? And was it a Ministry of Agriculture substation or was it a regional, provincial?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.993021621599503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Poultry project office. They, they were stationed throughout India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because later on when I moved up to Udaipur, it was the same setup. You have a poultry project. I guess Dr. Bhave had just been stationed there. I'm not certain how long he had been there. At any rate, as I recall, we were, we were supposed to go out and meet people and talk them into raising chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were no chickens to be had yet. There were. And there was nothing in sight. So we had to start from scratch there to try to get people interested in raising the chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any chickens anywhere in the neighborhood?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.436690690666115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because later on when I moved up to Udaipur, it was the same setup. You have a poultry project. I guess Dr. Bhave had just been stationed there. I'm not certain how long he had been there. At any rate, as I recall, we were, we were supposed to go out and meet people and talk them into raising chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were no chickens to be had yet. There were. And there was nothing in sight. So we had to start from scratch there to try to get people interested in raising the chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any chickens anywhere in the neighborhood?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just deshi, wild chickens, of course, were nothing like the breeds that would be the good egg layer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when you, I don't know what the Hindi word for chicken is, but when you went to a, when you went somewhere and began talking about it, people at least had some preconception of what you were talking about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.92965632296235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were no chickens to be had yet. There were. And there was nothing in sight. So we had to start from scratch there to try to get people interested in raising the chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any chickens anywhere in the neighborhood?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just deshi, wild chickens, of course, were nothing like the breeds that would be the good egg layer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when you, I don't know what the Hindi word for chicken is, but when you went to a, when you went somewhere and began talking about it, people at least had some preconception of what you were talking about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[coughs] Sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, let's try."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.7403164481016664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[coughs] Sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, let's try."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right, I. When we went to try to begin training people to raise chickens. First of all, we were introduced to some fairly wealthy people or people that Dr. Bhave thought might be interested in raising chickens. And it was our job to try to convince them it would be worth their while to do so. And see, eggs were selling for like a rupee apiece."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's like a dollar in our money apiece. So people could see that they were worth, it was worth getting into, but they didn't know anything about how to raise the day old chicks to the later stage, etcetera. And it was our job to help people with that transition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any incentives you could offer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.759007473390489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The government was supposed to give them day-old chicks at a fairly economical price. A very economical price. And the, the people that were interested in raising them were supposed to go through a training program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Run by?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Run by the state or the government. At any rate, we, it was our job to just convince them that they would be able to make some money out of this. And then if they did raise, start the chickens, then we would do the vaccinating and the animal husbandry that went along with trying to keep them alive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The problem in that area was, of course, nobody had any chickens and they weren't used to any other chickens other than the wild ones that ran around and just fed themselves. So they, our program taught people how to use a deep litter system in enclosed, well ventilated houses. Chicken houses that allowed you to keep several hundred chickens at a time. And you could make a pretty good profit from that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eggs were used for food?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.640749967148752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The problem in that area was, of course, nobody had any chickens and they weren't used to any other chickens other than the wild ones that ran around and just fed themselves. So they, our program taught people how to use a deep litter system in enclosed, well ventilated houses. Chicken houses that allowed you to keep several hundred chickens at a time. And you could make a pretty good profit from that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eggs were used for food?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, eggs were used as an antiseptic to put on a cut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most Indians did not eat eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a double agenda. I mean, not only, not only raising chickens, but convincing people to eat the eggs."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.04527774127639, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, eggs were used as an antiseptic to put on a cut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most Indians did not eat eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a double agenda. I mean, not only, not only raising chickens, but convincing people to eat the eggs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I spent a lot of time, especially later on, up in Rajasthan, working on teaching people how to cook with eggs. And I wrote some cookbooks that are, compiled some cookbooks and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So within the culture of the area you were in, did eggs have any function?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.272530823640434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most Indians did not eat eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a double agenda. I mean, not only, not only raising chickens, but convincing people to eat the eggs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I spent a lot of time, especially later on, up in Rajasthan, working on teaching people how to cook with eggs. And I wrote some cookbooks that are, compiled some cookbooks and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So within the culture of the area you were in, did eggs have any function?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Maharashtra was more advanced because the English had been there. So there were restaurants that would serve scrambled eggs and omelets. They were very good at making omelets. And some people ate those, but they still thought of eggs as having life because they used deshi eggs, which were the eggs that the male would have fertilized the female. And the people that were pure vegetarians did not feel they could eat those types of eggs. So part of our job was to convince them that a chicken gives an egg every day, just as a cow gives milk, and that we called them vegetarian eggs. And the chickens were not allowed to run loose. They were kept inside a house. So it was more pure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's kind of interesting because you're carrying a double burden. I mean, one is to teach people to raise chickens, but two is to convince people that they're worth eating, integrating into diet."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5250342484893706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I spent a lot of time, especially later on, up in Rajasthan, working on teaching people how to cook with eggs. And I wrote some cookbooks that are, compiled some cookbooks and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So within the culture of the area you were in, did eggs have any function?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Maharashtra was more advanced because the English had been there. So there were restaurants that would serve scrambled eggs and omelets. They were very good at making omelets. And some people ate those, but they still thought of eggs as having life because they used deshi eggs, which were the eggs that the male would have fertilized the female. And the people that were pure vegetarians did not feel they could eat those types of eggs. So part of our job was to convince them that a chicken gives an egg every day, just as a cow gives milk, and that we called them vegetarian eggs. And the chickens were not allowed to run loose. They were kept inside a house. So it was more pure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's kind of interesting because you're carrying a double burden. I mean, one is to teach people to raise chickens, but two is to convince people that they're worth eating, integrating into diet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of the reason they wanted us to go to India with this project, because so many people in the rural areas had such poor nutrition, their protein in their diet was nil and an egg would give you a lot of protein as well as be a way to get money in their pocket. This, the other thing about marketing eggs was that it didn't fit into the caste system. Anybody could do it and anybody could make money from it. And you wouldn't be criticized or condemned by your caste because you were doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the government of India had committed to this kind of program."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.805593609432634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Maharashtra was more advanced because the English had been there. So there were restaurants that would serve scrambled eggs and omelets. They were very good at making omelets. And some people ate those, but they still thought of eggs as having life because they used deshi eggs, which were the eggs that the male would have fertilized the female. And the people that were pure vegetarians did not feel they could eat those types of eggs. So part of our job was to convince them that a chicken gives an egg every day, just as a cow gives milk, and that we called them vegetarian eggs. And the chickens were not allowed to run loose. They were kept inside a house. So it was more pure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's kind of interesting because you're carrying a double burden. I mean, one is to teach people to raise chickens, but two is to convince people that they're worth eating, integrating into diet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of the reason they wanted us to go to India with this project, because so many people in the rural areas had such poor nutrition, their protein in their diet was nil and an egg would give you a lot of protein as well as be a way to get money in their pocket. This, the other thing about marketing eggs was that it didn't fit into the caste system. Anybody could do it and anybody could make money from it. And you wouldn't be criticized or condemned by your caste because you were doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the government of India had committed to this kind of program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, they had committed to it. They, they felt it would be a very worthwhile program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why didn't they have Indians doing what you were doing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.117326232702927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of the reason they wanted us to go to India with this project, because so many people in the rural areas had such poor nutrition, their protein in their diet was nil and an egg would give you a lot of protein as well as be a way to get money in their pocket. This, the other thing about marketing eggs was that it didn't fit into the caste system. Anybody could do it and anybody could make money from it. And you wouldn't be criticized or condemned by your caste because you were doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the government of India had committed to this kind of program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, they had committed to it. They, they felt it would be a very worthwhile program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why didn't they have Indians doing what you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That, it's an interesting concept. They don't trust them, their own people. They trusted us more than they trusted their own people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Dr. Bhave know your background?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.276167671746127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If he did, he probably wouldn't have ever taken us. But they, the Indians were very open to people from other countries, at least in Maharashtra. I have to say this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very different up in Rajasthan. But in Maharashtra they were very open. And they really enjoyed having foreigners, quote unquote, come to their house and talk to them. They, they just, I know that they said several times that they just didn't trust so-and-so. Da da da da da."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About doing these types of things. But if we are telling them it is true, then this must be so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Let's just talk generally about your living conditions, the kind of housing you had, what you did for meals, I mean."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.754688164260804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a rough time at first. I just could not stand Indian food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing I could eat is rice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't stand curry or anything and I lost so much weight. I was down to skin and bones. Finally, I got used so I could eat some of it. In Maharashtra they put so much spice in it. When you ate it, your eyes would water, your stomach would jump and everything else. So we had a lot of problems with amoebic dysentery and of course they gave us gamma globulin shots and all kinds of things and tetramycin and antibiotics all the time. But the whole time we were there, three years, we had the dysentery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get direct medical support from the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.17187573806756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing I could eat is rice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't stand curry or anything and I lost so much weight. I was down to skin and bones. Finally, I got used so I could eat some of it. In Maharashtra they put so much spice in it. When you ate it, your eyes would water, your stomach would jump and everything else. So we had a lot of problems with amoebic dysentery and of course they gave us gamma globulin shots and all kinds of things and tetramycin and antibiotics all the time. But the whole time we were there, three years, we had the dysentery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get direct medical support from the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Every three months they took us in and doctored us up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. How far were you from the nearest Peace Corps office?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5243063756306223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't stand curry or anything and I lost so much weight. I was down to skin and bones. Finally, I got used so I could eat some of it. In Maharashtra they put so much spice in it. When you ate it, your eyes would water, your stomach would jump and everything else. So we had a lot of problems with amoebic dysentery and of course they gave us gamma globulin shots and all kinds of things and tetramycin and antibiotics all the time. But the whole time we were there, three years, we had the dysentery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get direct medical support from the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Every three months they took us in and doctored us up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. How far were you from the nearest Peace Corps office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, we had to go all the way to Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you turn your mike just a little like that? Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.9158959729229137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Every three months they took us in and doctored us up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. How far were you from the nearest Peace Corps office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, we had to go all the way to Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you turn your mike just a little like that? Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to go all the way to New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far is that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.128773303247682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, we had to go all the way to Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you turn your mike just a little like that? Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to go all the way to New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that would have been, let's see, about a day's trip to Pune. A day's trip from Pune to Bombay, another day's trip from Bombay up to New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you were ragingly ill, you weren't going to do that trip."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.365303670275202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to go all the way to New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that would have been, let's see, about a day's trip to Pune. A day's trip from Pune to Bombay, another day's trip from Bombay up to New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you were ragingly ill, you weren't going to do that trip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, we got used to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the trip?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.605096281474168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, it just was something you lived with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The, um, the main things we had problems with were giardia and amoebic dysentery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But our housing itself, we started out, we had very poor sanitary conditions. A hole, a hole in a little hut. And, you know, the old outhouse business. And we did move into finally a house that was, it was solid clay walls. It was cooler. And we just had very simple furniture and tin plates. And we didn't, we didn't ever fancy anything up, we just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do for water, I mean?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.26016808638038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it always tasted horrible but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got, they used to have something called Nimbu Pani, which was a lemon, a lemon sweetened lemonade thing that you could put in water. And that helped us to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, survive because I couldn't stand the water. And a lot of times we had to put iodine in it, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go six months after you were in town. And was there a point at which you began thinking? How did your job evolve, I should say?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.7335200959782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got, they used to have something called Nimbu Pani, which was a lemon, a lemon sweetened lemonade thing that you could put in water. And that helped us to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, survive because I couldn't stand the water. And a lot of times we had to put iodine in it, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go six months after you were in town. And was there a point at which you began thinking? How did your job evolve, I should say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After I got used to the food and got a little more strength, we had to ride bicycles everywhere. So we had to get our physical strength up to be able to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was most of what you did in conjunction with the woman, your partner?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.259466773309111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, survive because I couldn't stand the water. And a lot of times we had to put iodine in it, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go six months after you were in town. And was there a point at which you began thinking? How did your job evolve, I should say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After I got used to the food and got a little more strength, we had to ride bicycles everywhere. So we had to get our physical strength up to be able to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was most of what you did in conjunction with the woman, your partner?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the two of you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.9129219423569257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the two of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We pretty much went together every place we went. And she was from Texas and she had a slow Texan drawl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And for some reason, they could understand her much better than me. I spoke too fast for them. So eventually, after about six months, I did learn how to slow way down and speak very carefully and it was easier for them to follow me. But I, uh, I think every three months, as I said, we went in for medical treatment. Sometimes we went to Bombay also, as I recall. Other times we went to New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did the first chicken arrive in the town?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:457", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.127064126366575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And for some reason, they could understand her much better than me. I spoke too fast for them. So eventually, after about six months, I did learn how to slow way down and speak very carefully and it was easier for them to follow me. But I, uh, I think every three months, as I said, we went in for medical treatment. Sometimes we went to Bombay also, as I recall. Other times we went to New Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did the first chicken arrive in the town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took us a while to get chicken started. We did a lot of talking and they were starting to come. It took us almost several months though, several months to get that particular project going. And then I think we had about ten people that were interested in doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, and I wasn't there. I moved up to Rajasthan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After how long?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.14118236262952788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took us a while to get chicken started. We did a lot of talking and they were starting to come. It took us almost several months though, several months to get that particular project going. And then I think we had about ten people that were interested in doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, and I wasn't there. I moved up to Rajasthan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After how long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After about a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So at the end of the year."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.15686929181058654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, and I wasn't there. I moved up to Rajasthan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After how long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After about a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So at the end of the year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What had you accomplished?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.17429921312287391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After about a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So at the end of the year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What had you accomplished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had about ten people that were very interested in doing, raising the chickens, and they were our model."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it hadn't happened yet?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.21518421373194307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had about ten people that were very interested in doing, raising the chickens, and they were our model."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it hadn't happened yet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember whether, I think we at least had some of them with the chickens. The others were on order."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So whether they had finally gotten, I can't remember Maharashtra as much as I do Rajasthan because that's where we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was anyone evaluating, I mean, whether it was from the Indian side or Peace Corps side, to give you a sense of whether you were moving appropriately or achieving?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.29517724791761735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had people come to visit us from time to time and try to give us encouragement. I don't think they were worried so much that it was taking a while to get this done, especially here where nobody ever, nobody even had chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It takes a while to do all the convincing and the government was slow in getting the chickens and all that type of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So before you go through all that red tape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than Dr. Bhave, did you have any Indian counterparts?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.3279747199084637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It takes a while to do all the convincing and the government was slow in getting the chickens and all that type of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So before you go through all that red tape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than Dr. Bhave, did you have any Indian counterparts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe there was an Indian fellow who was supposed to also be working in that project, but I'm not sure if he was in the poultry area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he have a job title? It's very important in some structures."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.36441635545384854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So before you go through all that red tape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than Dr. Bhave, did you have any Indian counterparts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe there was an Indian fellow who was supposed to also be working in that project, but I'm not sure if he was in the poultry area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he have a job title? It's very important in some structures."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Poultry trainee? Poultry expert? I don't know. They called us poultry expert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did people in the village perceived you, I mean?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.44989673512820805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Poultry trainee? Poultry expert? I don't know. They called us poultry expert."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did people in the village perceived you, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, it was a big city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, we went to the outskirts of the city, but the city itself was very big, very primitive but big."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The people with whom you worked, I mean, what was their sense?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5554280680595161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, we went to the outskirts of the city, but the city itself was very big, very primitive but big."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The people with whom you worked, I mean, what was their sense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They seem to, as I say, in Maharashtra they were used to the English and they, they thought of us as celebrities practically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were the only show on the block."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of who you are?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6171422978439067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They seem to, as I say, in Maharashtra they were used to the English and they, they thought of us as celebrities practically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were the only show on the block."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of who you are?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. They weren't, no other foreigners were there I don't believe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some people going into another culture find what's called an informant or a mentor or, you know, someone from that culture with whom they can communicate more readily. And then was there anyone who played that role that you recall?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7619040714122305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. They weren't, no other foreigners were there I don't believe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some people going into another culture find what's called an informant or a mentor or, you know, someone from that culture with whom they can communicate more readily. And then was there anyone who played that role that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Dr. Bhave tried to answer as many questions about things as he could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't recall anybody else helping us in that respect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you wouldn't go out and drink beer with Dr. Bhave?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8465600793469228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Dr. Bhave tried to answer as many questions about things as he could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't recall anybody else helping us in that respect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you wouldn't go out and drink beer with Dr. Bhave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, I don't drink beer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I mean, or."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1612621115869994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We kept very much to ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't, we didn't want to get into that kind of thing, not in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, yeah, but you still felt comfortable in the setting you were in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9666075828329004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were very careful. I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember whether my roommate drank beer or anything like that, but I don't even know if beer was, I guess it was available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't drink beer. I don't remember. I can't remember her drinking it either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps had no hesitation, though, about putting the two of you together up in this obscure area, remote area?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1851195364810003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember whether my roommate drank beer or anything like that, but I don't even know if beer was, I guess it was available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't drink beer. I don't remember. I can't remember her drinking it either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps had no hesitation, though, about putting the two of you together up in this obscure area, remote area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess not. They did have a couple of other volunteers come out to see us every now and then, just to see if we were alive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To show them how bad it can be."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4279105960900003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't drink beer. I don't remember. I can't remember her drinking it either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps had no hesitation, though, about putting the two of you together up in this obscure area, remote area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess not. They did have a couple of other volunteers come out to see us every now and then, just to see if we were alive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To show them how bad it can be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See how it's going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you considered to be on the, on the cutting edge, you know, a hardship kind of post?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6976784401000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess not. They did have a couple of other volunteers come out to see us every now and then, just to see if we were alive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To show them how bad it can be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See how it's going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you considered to be on the, on the cutting edge, you know, a hardship kind of post?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, actually I thought it, Maharashtra was, as I say, a fairly, at least they had a fairly good attitude towards foreigners. So we didn't have it as hard as we did in Rajasthan when I went up there. But the hard part in Maharashtra was simply the fact that nobody had done the chickens and we had to get somebody to prove it could be done. So that was hard. We had to do a lot of visiting. We went to a lot of social functions to try and talked and talked and talked about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what kind of social functions?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:517", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.997420489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See how it's going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you considered to be on the, on the cutting edge, you know, a hardship kind of post?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, actually I thought it, Maharashtra was, as I say, a fairly, at least they had a fairly good attitude towards foreigners. So we didn't have it as hard as we did in Rajasthan when I went up there. But the hard part in Maharashtra was simply the fact that nobody had done the chickens and we had to get somebody to prove it could be done. So that was hard. We had to do a lot of visiting. We went to a lot of social functions to try and talked and talked and talked about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what kind of social functions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, weddings. If somebody was having a dinner at their home, we would, they'd invite us. A lot of people invited us to places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, most of your day, including the social events, you were working and expressing yourself in English, not Hindi?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.4782969000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, weddings. If somebody was having a dinner at their home, we would, they'd invite us. A lot of people invited us to places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, most of your day, including the social events, you were working and expressing yourself in English, not Hindi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Maharashtra, we didn't have to use as much Hindi because they spoke, a lot of people spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they had quite a group of the Parsis or Zoroastrian religion that were very educated and very wealthy in their, in that area. And they were thinking of starting a project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so as you came to the end of the first year, had you, did you feel you would made progress in the use of Hindi or was it just sort of there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:523", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5314410000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Maharashtra, we didn't have to use as much Hindi because they spoke, a lot of people spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they had quite a group of the Parsis or Zoroastrian religion that were very educated and very wealthy in their, in that area. And they were thinking of starting a project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so as you came to the end of the first year, had you, did you feel you would made progress in the use of Hindi or was it just sort of there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, we used Hindi, and I think. I'm trying to remember the difference between Rajasthan and Maharashtra because I, most of my positive things I think of in Rajasthan, that was our two years up there. At any rate, um, I'm trying to think whether we had a poultry fair. Sometimes we did displays like that where we had a poultry fair or an agricultural fair, where we would display ways to raise chickens and graphs on how to make money with it and all that type of thing. And do some, uh, get, put out literature and so forth of explaining about eggs and how to raise chickens. And we would also try to get people to sign up to take training classes. And sometimes I know at these fairs we would do cooking demonstrations and things. Show people how to use the eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the eggs? The chickens, no?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5904900000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they had quite a group of the Parsis or Zoroastrian religion that were very educated and very wealthy in their, in that area. And they were thinking of starting a project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so as you came to the end of the first year, had you, did you feel you would made progress in the use of Hindi or was it just sort of there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, we used Hindi, and I think. I'm trying to remember the difference between Rajasthan and Maharashtra because I, most of my positive things I think of in Rajasthan, that was our two years up there. At any rate, um, I'm trying to think whether we had a poultry fair. Sometimes we did displays like that where we had a poultry fair or an agricultural fair, where we would display ways to raise chickens and graphs on how to make money with it and all that type of thing. And do some, uh, get, put out literature and so forth of explaining about eggs and how to raise chickens. And we would also try to get people to sign up to take training classes. And sometimes I know at these fairs we would do cooking demonstrations and things. Show people how to use the eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the eggs? The chickens, no?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time we weren't into meat. Later on, we did get into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your first Christmas? I mean, it must have been a tough time."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, we used Hindi, and I think. I'm trying to remember the difference between Rajasthan and Maharashtra because I, most of my positive things I think of in Rajasthan, that was our two years up there. At any rate, um, I'm trying to think whether we had a poultry fair. Sometimes we did displays like that where we had a poultry fair or an agricultural fair, where we would display ways to raise chickens and graphs on how to make money with it and all that type of thing. And do some, uh, get, put out literature and so forth of explaining about eggs and how to raise chickens. And we would also try to get people to sign up to take training classes. And sometimes I know at these fairs we would do cooking demonstrations and things. Show people how to use the eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the eggs? The chickens, no?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time we weren't into meat. Later on, we did get into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your first Christmas? I mean, it must have been a tough time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, growing up with six kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you attempt to have a Christmas celebration?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, growing up with six kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did you attempt to have a Christmas celebration?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we did. I can't even remember it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember it. It was, things like that didn't bother me that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you don't recall being homesick or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:533", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we did. I can't even remember it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember it. It was, things like that didn't bother me that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you don't recall being homesick or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It wasn't. No. I was in love with my husband-to-be. That was my big thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Anything else about the first year? And did, did you feel the training had prepared you for this or that they had thrown you curves or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember it. It was, things like that didn't bother me that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you don't recall being homesick or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It wasn't. No. I was in love with my husband-to-be. That was my big thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Anything else about the first year? And did, did you feel the training had prepared you for this or that they had thrown you curves or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had taught us from the beginning to be flexible. They said, you really need to be flexible. You don't know what you're going to encounter. Every situation is different. So we just rolled with the punches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have any sense of the role that Peace Corps was playing in your life at that point, I mean?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00175:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It wasn't. No. I was in love with my husband-to-be. That was my big thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Anything else about the first year? And did, did you feel the training had prepared you for this or that they had thrown you curves or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had taught us from the beginning to be flexible. They said, you really need to be flexible. You don't know what you're going to encounter. Every situation is different. So we just rolled with the punches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have any sense of the role that Peace Corps was playing in your life at that point, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if I got the sense then or I have gotten it later, that I think they mainly wanted us to just experience another culture and come back and share what we had learned with Americans here, because so many people have never been in another culture like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There wasn't any sense of a push to see that you ended up with 1,000 chicken farmers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00223:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 124.19245569435894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Dad was not happy with it. He was really pleased and really happy that I had done so well flying and that he was the one that taught me how to fly, but I can just picture him sitting there, reading the news every night, and reading about another couple of airplanes shot down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any close calls when you were over there yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never got hit. I had lots of projectiles go by me very close but never got hit. I would say not really, not really any close calls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s tough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it obviously bothered him a lot more than it bothered me. People ask me if I was scared. I don’t know that I’d use the word “scared.” I was very apprehensive. When you’ve got tracers coming by your canopy, it’ll get your attention. Those really light up the sky, but the ones that are a lot more dangerous were the radar-guided antiaircraft guns, where they’d have a radar tracking you, feeding that information to a computer, and the computer aims the guns at you. It knew how to lead you, it knew where you were going, and that’s why when you were flying over North Vietnam, you never flew in a straight line for more than 4 seconds at a time. You were constantly jinking, what we call jinking, so you might be straight for a couple of seconds, looking somewhere, and then it’s time to change altitude, change direction, because this radar is projecting your flight path and it’s going to put a bullet—sometimes these were big bullets; the normal ones were 57-millimeter, which is golly, 57-millimeters is almost a 3-inch shell—and they could put it right where you’re going to be in 8 seconds, so you don’t want to be there 8 seconds from now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something you had practiced training before you went, or was that something that they had told you when you got there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00223:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 137.9916174381766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never got hit. I had lots of projectiles go by me very close but never got hit. I would say not really, not really any close calls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s tough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it obviously bothered him a lot more than it bothered me. People ask me if I was scared. I don’t know that I’d use the word “scared.” I was very apprehensive. When you’ve got tracers coming by your canopy, it’ll get your attention. Those really light up the sky, but the ones that are a lot more dangerous were the radar-guided antiaircraft guns, where they’d have a radar tracking you, feeding that information to a computer, and the computer aims the guns at you. It knew how to lead you, it knew where you were going, and that’s why when you were flying over North Vietnam, you never flew in a straight line for more than 4 seconds at a time. You were constantly jinking, what we call jinking, so you might be straight for a couple of seconds, looking somewhere, and then it’s time to change altitude, change direction, because this radar is projecting your flight path and it’s going to put a bullet—sometimes these were big bullets; the normal ones were 57-millimeter, which is golly, 57-millimeters is almost a 3-inch shell—and they could put it right where you’re going to be in 8 seconds, so you don’t want to be there 8 seconds from now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something you had practiced training before you went, or was that something that they had told you when you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both—you got told it, and we also flew missions in the simulator. Before I finished the RAG, you’d fly missions in the simulator. If you weren’t jinking, they’d shoot you down in the simulator, and they’d say, “Okay, you forgot to jink, didn’t you? So you just got shot down.” Fortunately, just in the simulator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was sort of engrained by the time you went over there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00223:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 83, "return_to_go": 153.3240193757518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it obviously bothered him a lot more than it bothered me. People ask me if I was scared. I don’t know that I’d use the word “scared.” I was very apprehensive. When you’ve got tracers coming by your canopy, it’ll get your attention. Those really light up the sky, but the ones that are a lot more dangerous were the radar-guided antiaircraft guns, where they’d have a radar tracking you, feeding that information to a computer, and the computer aims the guns at you. It knew how to lead you, it knew where you were going, and that’s why when you were flying over North Vietnam, you never flew in a straight line for more than 4 seconds at a time. You were constantly jinking, what we call jinking, so you might be straight for a couple of seconds, looking somewhere, and then it’s time to change altitude, change direction, because this radar is projecting your flight path and it’s going to put a bullet—sometimes these were big bullets; the normal ones were 57-millimeter, which is golly, 57-millimeters is almost a 3-inch shell—and they could put it right where you’re going to be in 8 seconds, so you don’t want to be there 8 seconds from now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something you had practiced training before you went, or was that something that they had told you when you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both—you got told it, and we also flew missions in the simulator. Before I finished the RAG, you’d fly missions in the simulator. If you weren’t jinking, they’d shoot you down in the simulator, and they’d say, “Okay, you forgot to jink, didn’t you? So you just got shot down.” Fortunately, just in the simulator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was sort of engrained by the time you went over there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do once you came back to the States?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00223:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 56.171483524515025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was hoping that that’s what it was, and I didn’t know the protocol at the time. It turns out that what the protocol was, was that George Abbey would call all the ones who had been selected. If it was somebody else who called you who was a member of the selection board, it’s because you didn’t get selected. I didn’t know that at that time, but I still have that note. I’ve kept that note. Picked up the phone and called George Abbey. George Abbey told me, “Well, if you’re still interested, we’d like to go ahead and select you.” I said, “Ba daba daba, if I’m still interested!” Of course I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course. Did you tell your parents as soon as you hung up the phone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, golly, yes. The instruction was, “Hey, the press release is going to go out later today, so please keep it quiet. Don’t go write and tell your local newspaper or anything like that, but keep it quiet at least until the end of the day today,” and I don’t think I waited until the end of the day. I think I called Mom and Dad and told them but told them to keep it quiet, too. What a great day. Then I went and I flew about a 3-hour test flight in a Tomcat, landed from that, and let’s see, myself and my back-seater who was on that project with me, we drove to, I don’t remember where, [Washington] Dulles [International] Airport [Sterling, Virginia] or Washington National [Airport, Arlington, Virginia], and flew down to Orlando and got to be in Florida by the end of the day. That was just a really fun day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty memorable, I’m sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was a great day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, a few weeks later, you were invited down here to Houston for basically a meet and greet, introduce you to the Center. Would you tell us about those three days down here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00223:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 54.53269570927781, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was a great day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, a few weeks later, you were invited down here to Houston for basically a meet and greet, introduce you to the Center. Would you tell us about those three days down here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the phone call was January 16, that’s an easy day to remember, and then somebody from NASA—I don’t remember exactly who—got on the phone, but said, “We’d like to have you all come down here.” It was the end of January, as I remember. I don’t remember the exact dates. We were down for about three days, and of course, they toured us around and the press was everywhere. It was just a real big event because we had not picked astronauts in nine years, and these were the first group of Space Shuttle astronauts, 35 of us, 15 pilots and 20 mission specialists. First time we had selected women, so we had our first six women astronauts, and first time we had picked African Americans. In that group was Fred [Frederick D.] Gregory, Guy [Guion S.] Bluford, and Ron [Ronald E.] McNair, and Ellison [S.] Onizuka. I remember a funny story, he was asked by one of the members of the press, “How does it feel to be one of the first minority astronauts?” He said, “Minority? I didn’t know I was one.” That was Ellison. He and I were officemates for the first four and a half years that we were down here together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you tell us about Ellison? Obviously we’re not able to interview him. Rhea [Seddon] told us about some of the antics you guys were involved in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, golly, yes, did Rhea tell you about some of that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A few things."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00223:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 71.71111857358433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was not on that one. She was ’90 class, wasn’t she?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was in the ’90 class. Maybe it was after that one; it might have been the ’92 class. I still remember we just didn’t have that many women to choose from that met the criteria of qualified, let alone pilot-qualified. We’ve seen that change dramatically over the years and I fully expect our Astronaut Corps is eventually going to get to the point where it’s 50-50 men and women. I know they’re not there yet, but I think it will be. No reason not to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the recent class, it was 50-50. That was big news."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me a little bit more about some of the other women in the class, Judy [Judith A. Resnik] or Sally [K. Ride], Kathy [Kathryn D. Sullivan], some of your initial thoughts about some of those women."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00223:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 27, "return_to_go": 78.5679095262048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was in the ’90 class. Maybe it was after that one; it might have been the ’92 class. I still remember we just didn’t have that many women to choose from that met the criteria of qualified, let alone pilot-qualified. We’ve seen that change dramatically over the years and I fully expect our Astronaut Corps is eventually going to get to the point where it’s 50-50 men and women. I know they’re not there yet, but I think it will be. No reason not to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the recent class, it was 50-50. That was big news."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me a little bit more about some of the other women in the class, Judy [Judith A. Resnik] or Sally [K. Ride], Kathy [Kathryn D. Sullivan], some of your initial thoughts about some of those women."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Judy was beautiful, just gorgeous, and really smart, really driven, really a hard-charger. Judy frequently was going to speak her mind, and sometimes annoyed some people because if Judy had something to say, you were going to hear it. And let’s face it, she was generally always correct. She was generally always right on, but very forceful, very driven, and very competent. Golly I flew with her a whole bunch of times in the T-38s, and she loved what she was doing. Really loved being an astronaut, loved flying the airplanes, loved going cross-country and doing all of those things.\\n\\n Sally was very much like Judy. They were very much the same sort of women, both very driven. I had pretty well pegged Sally and Judy as being the first two that were going to fly. Not necessarily in that order—I didn’t know which order it was going to be—but they were the two that really showed up in all of the training and all of the working, and worked on some of the more visible things, which did make them show up a whole lot better and made them a whole lot more visible. Very much the same. I actually dated Sally for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you really? I didn’t know that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00223:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 65.82483958442107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I say that all the time. She just loves it when I do that, but no, I asked her. We married May 30, 1981. She wanted us to wait until after STS-1 had happened, which was April 12 of ‘81, and so then, at that point, we announced that we were going to be married on May 30. There have been a number of husband and wife astronaut couples here in the US. Most of them are not still married. Tammy [Tamara E.] Jernigan and Jeff [Peter J.K.] Wisoff are still married, but Rhea and I are [one of a select few]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think Steven and Linda, Steve [Steven R.] Nagel and Linda [M.] Godwin are still around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Steve and Linda are still married, so that’s good, but a number of the other ones are not still married. I always say it’s because I am so easygoing and easy to get along with that we have stayed together for so long. Of course, she makes a funny comment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did want to ask you, your class called themselves The Thirty-Five New Guys. Do you think that the women felt that they were part of the guys, or the men thought the women were just one of the guys and part of the gang, or do you think that there was some separation between the two?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I called them guys, too, and I considered them one of the guys. I believe they considered themselves one of the guys. I never heard any of them say, “We don’t want to be called guys; we don’t want to be called The Thirty-Five New Guys.” Never did hear that. I suppose it’s possible, but it would surprise me. Actually, it would surprise me to hear of any of them saying, “Well, I object to being called guys.” Never have heard that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was the first time, I’m assuming, that you worked with a lot of professional women, being in the Navy. Is that the case?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00223:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 90.4239721905391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The astronauts moved us, yes. It was Ace Moving Company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I was thinking; I couldn’t remember."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Ace Moving Company is what we were known as. When somebody would be moving, the word would go out, “Hey, so-and-so is going to move on Saturday; everybody show up that can help.” You’d have 25 astronauts show up to help move. Usually, it happened in about three or four hours, you’d move a whole entire house. They helped us move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very nice. I’m guessing more showed up since Rhea was in the hospital, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. She had a difficult time with that one, and after something like 14 hours of labor, they said, “This isn’t going to work; we’re going to have to do a c-section.” They did a c-section and then baby Paul, when he was born, had lung difficulties, serious lung difficulties, and got Life Flight-ed up to Hermann Hospital [Houston, Texas]. Altogether, I don’t remember what day she went into the hospital, but [it] was like a week before she finally got released. He was touch and go for about three days, and we weren’t sure that he was going to stay until about the third day. That was kind of traumatic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s scary. But he’s doing well—I think I met him when we were out interviewing Rhea a few years ago, in Murfreesboro [Tennessee]."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00223:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 99.359969100599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Ace Moving Company is what we were known as. When somebody would be moving, the word would go out, “Hey, so-and-so is going to move on Saturday; everybody show up that can help.” You’d have 25 astronauts show up to help move. Usually, it happened in about three or four hours, you’d move a whole entire house. They helped us move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very nice. I’m guessing more showed up since Rhea was in the hospital, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. She had a difficult time with that one, and after something like 14 hours of labor, they said, “This isn’t going to work; we’re going to have to do a c-section.” They did a c-section and then baby Paul, when he was born, had lung difficulties, serious lung difficulties, and got Life Flight-ed up to Hermann Hospital [Houston, Texas]. Altogether, I don’t remember what day she went into the hospital, but [it] was like a week before she finally got released. He was touch and go for about three days, and we weren’t sure that he was going to stay until about the third day. That was kind of traumatic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s scary. But he’s doing well—I think I met him when we were out interviewing Rhea a few years ago, in Murfreesboro [Tennessee]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he’s done fine. He’s graduated from college now and working as a waiter in an Italian restaurant, as a college graduate, still looking for that career, but yes, he’s done well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a tough market these days."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00223:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 110.39996566733222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. She had a difficult time with that one, and after something like 14 hours of labor, they said, “This isn’t going to work; we’re going to have to do a c-section.” They did a c-section and then baby Paul, when he was born, had lung difficulties, serious lung difficulties, and got Life Flight-ed up to Hermann Hospital [Houston, Texas]. Altogether, I don’t remember what day she went into the hospital, but [it] was like a week before she finally got released. He was touch and go for about three days, and we weren’t sure that he was going to stay until about the third day. That was kind of traumatic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s scary. But he’s doing well—I think I met him when we were out interviewing Rhea a few years ago, in Murfreesboro [Tennessee]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he’s done fine. He’s graduated from college now and working as a waiter in an Italian restaurant, as a college graduate, still looking for that career, but yes, he’s done well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a tough market these days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it sure is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about those first few days when you came down here to Houston, being part of that Astronaut Corps, going to that first Monday meeting, and being introduced to your colleagues."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00223:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.2458560301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I kind of messed up Dick Covey. It just didn’t even occur to me, but in my first meeting with George, when George said, “Come over and let’s talk about Chase,” I had that all put together and went over and showed it to him. Then George appointed Dick Covey to be Chase-1 for STS-3, and same thing, George called over to Covey and said, “All right, come on over and let’s talk about Chase.” Covey went over there and he didn’t have that. He came back and he said, “Oh, George told me when you came over, you had a whole detailed plan of how many sorties each guy was going to get, and how many rendezvous each guy was going to get, and you didn’t tell me about that.” It just hadn’t occurred to me, but I kind of screwed him because I was so organized and ready for the whole thing and he wasn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think that’s why he was the last to fly in class? No, I’m just teasing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to think, was he our last pilot to fly?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that’s what he told me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know Shannon was the last one out of our class to fly, and she went with Dan [Daniel C.] Brandenstein on his second mission, which was his first mission as commander [STS-51G]. I didn’t remember which pilot, to tell you the truth, was the last one to fly. I guess I was the fourth one to fly, out of 15. It might have been Covey. I don’t know why Covey would have been the last one to fly. I was always very impressed with him, always very impressed with him. He was by the numbers, he was not a cowboy, he was a very professional aviator. I don’t know why he would have been the last one to fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He had some good missions. He got to go to the Hubble [Space Telescope]."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00223:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 22.495395589, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to think, was he our last pilot to fly?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that’s what he told me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know Shannon was the last one out of our class to fly, and she went with Dan [Daniel C.] Brandenstein on his second mission, which was his first mission as commander [STS-51G]. I didn’t remember which pilot, to tell you the truth, was the last one to fly. I guess I was the fourth one to fly, out of 15. It might have been Covey. I don’t know why Covey would have been the last one to fly. I was always very impressed with him, always very impressed with him. He was by the numbers, he was not a cowboy, he was a very professional aviator. I don’t know why he would have been the last one to fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He had some good missions. He got to go to the Hubble [Space Telescope]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was Air Force. He was Air Force, and it has to be acknowledged that there was a Navy bias."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You agree with Mike Mullane?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00223:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was always fun to be down there, and any time you were down at the Cape, they wanted you to wear your flight suit because they wanted the folks that worked down there to get to see who they were keeping alive, and get to see who they were doing all this hard work for, and also give them an opportunity to walk up and say, “Hey, I’m Jim Schultz, who are you?” Just get to meet an astronaut. You were always on display because you were wearing your blue suit everywhere you went, and including in the Orbiter, when we’re doing the testing in the Orbiter, they just wanted us to wear our blue suits for all of that. That was kind of fun. It’s a whole lot more enjoyable when you’re not on display and you can just blend in to the woodwork, but when you were working as a Cape Crusader, like I said, they wanted us in our blue flight suits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have just a few more minutes, but I have to ask this question, just because I asked Rhea and she wasn’t sure, so I was going to ask you. I read in an article—I think it was a People Magazine article that came out when you and Rhea, either you had just gotten engaged or you had just gotten married, I can’t remember which."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had just been married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was something in there about how you had been contacted by a bridal magazine and they had left a message for Mr. Seddon. I just thought, “Oh, I would love to hear the story behind it,” and I’d like to hear what your classmates and other people in the Astronaut Office thought about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that that came from one of our classmates. I think it was Brides Magazine. I don’t remember exactly why, but chances are, Ellison Onizuka was behind it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another one of his pranks."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00198:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I don’t think there’ll ever be another one like that. I can’t imagine. I hope there’s nothing as painful as 2010. It’s hard for me to imagine you’ll have as high as 2014. Yes, I don’t think that’ll ever be the same. That’d be fine with me. If other things went and they were easy, that’d be cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think we’ve touched on a lot of the themes that we were looking for in the Project. We appreciate you sharing those details with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thanks for asking. The way you asked me made me think of it in a different way. Some of it is still emotional. It’s funny, it’s been so long. But still I can feel it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have no doubt that it is. It’s probably still there in your heart and in your mind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I got to watch this year not to get too tied up in that. I got to do the same thing here that I did there, for the Center. “Let’s do our job. Let’s figure out how to make sure the messages are accurate. We don’t set policy, but let’s try to influence as much as we can.” We’ll see. We’ll see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s trying times, that’s for sure."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00165:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 77.34706179753378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I really don't recall specifics, but early afternoon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I was getting at. Did you have a lot of time afterwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a fair amount of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you usually spent that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not enough. Once I played volleyball with the guys at the school and they were really good volleyball players, we had a great time. And this one fellow teacher who was about my age had an older brother who'd gone to college in America. So he was knowledgeable about what things were like in America because he'd heard all these stories from his older brother. But we would typically go back with where my house was, was on a local bazaar. The little town was called Bakuham, and there would be maybe 12 or 15 shops, five or six or seven on each side of the road. And one would be textiles and one would be fruit and one would be meat and one would be, you know, pens and pencils and what have you. And sometimes I go out there and sit with the locals and chat with them and have a lot of experiences. I know politically there were some interesting things that happened. This was during the time of Watergate. And I picked up like immediately in November of ‘71. One of the things you went out and bought was a shortwave radio. It was about the size of a lunchbox and it had a long antenna that you'd pull out. And BBC World Worldwide was where we got our news. And I still get my one of my primary sources of news from that today, because it's the most, I think, independent and also very efficient."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it covers more of the world."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00228:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 40.83190283945455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. A good number of us did, and we negotiated union contracts and, again, tried to do those in ways that helped the Center get its job done. Yes, I spent a fair amount of time doing that, too. That was interesting. That’s a different aspect of the HR business, and I think because we had people of good will on both sides, that generally worked out pretty well. It was a little rocky going in the early seventies.\\n\\n Jack Lister gave some excellent leadership to that. Carl Maxey was invaluable at that point. Dick Kuhn was another one who was very skilled in that area, and then for many, many years, [Robert F.] Bob Hall, who worked with me and others to guide that relationship and to try to honor the principle that employees have the right to belong to a union, and unions have a stake in the role of this thing. How do we do that and work together to make this whole thing work out? Bob, in particular, was probably the best that I’ve ever seen at that. He was really good at doing that. But he and I and Dick and some other folks negotiated our fair share of contractual activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun. It was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’73, the Personnel Office reorganized. What was the reason behind the reorganization?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think Jack was always looking for the best way to put together the combination of people that he had, coupled with what’s the best way to provide service to the organization. So he was forever kind of reshaping and retooling that around people and around the emerging needs. At that point, we were coming out of the period of the layoffs, and we were going to be heading into a new period, which was a fairly austere period as far as hiring was concerned, but already starting to ramp up to support the emerging Space Shuttle Program. How are we going to put our resources together in the best way to help the organization to get people where they need to be, the right people, to be able to do the next program?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your title changed at that point. Did your duties change at all, or was it—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00228:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 45.368780932727276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun. It was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’73, the Personnel Office reorganized. What was the reason behind the reorganization?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think Jack was always looking for the best way to put together the combination of people that he had, coupled with what’s the best way to provide service to the organization. So he was forever kind of reshaping and retooling that around people and around the emerging needs. At that point, we were coming out of the period of the layoffs, and we were going to be heading into a new period, which was a fairly austere period as far as hiring was concerned, but already starting to ramp up to support the emerging Space Shuttle Program. How are we going to put our resources together in the best way to help the organization to get people where they need to be, the right people, to be able to do the next program?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your title changed at that point. Did your duties change at all, or was it—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was pretty much the same. It was pretty much the same, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe around that time also you became an Education for Public Management Fellow at Cornell [University, Ithaca, New York]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00764:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 10.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's assessing the cost of what it is, it's the improvement that's going to be realized, it's the technical risk of actually realizing the improvement, and then if it's a risk reduction activity—how much risk does it really buy you. If right now my risk is 1 in 100 and I can make a design change that costs little and I can get to 1 in 1 million—that kind of assessment is what you want to be able to do. As far as someone that's coming into the program, you have to get to know your leaders at all levels. They need to get to know you. Once they know you, that's how they get to trust you. I think having your leader trust you to do your jobs correctly and provide good advice is key."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a way that you have seen that works when people start to instill trust in others and vice versa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people that I worked with—if I trusted them, I think they trusted me more. If they weren't quite as reliable and I didn't feel like I could trust them, then I felt that they didn't trust what I was telling them quite as much. I think trust is key."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that something that can be taught to others? I know it can be tested."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if that can be taught. I think it's more of a goal. You need to start as a goal to gain trust from either somebody working for you or who you're working for. Getting to know the leaders—shaking hands, whatever it is, whether you see them outside of work or whether you get exposure to them through your technical work—so they'll know who you are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other thoughts you'd like to add as a closing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00764:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people that I worked with—if I trusted them, I think they trusted me more. If they weren't quite as reliable and I didn't feel like I could trust them, then I felt that they didn't trust what I was telling them quite as much. I think trust is key."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that something that can be taught to others? I know it can be tested."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if that can be taught. I think it's more of a goal. You need to start as a goal to gain trust from either somebody working for you or who you're working for. Getting to know the leaders—shaking hands, whatever it is, whether you see them outside of work or whether you get exposure to them through your technical work—so they'll know who you are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other thoughts you'd like to add as a closing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had one question [about] who else you might want to interview. I've jotted down some names. Bert [James B.] Jackson [Jr.] works here. He was the guy that put the configuration management process in place originally for Shuttle. There's some retired people I know that are still around. I think Dick [Richard H.] Kohrs and Owen Morris are still around. I think Dick Kohrs has got an office over in Building 1 somewhere helping Constellation. I thought he was one of the best Program Managers we ever had. Owen Morris was the initial systems integration manager and I think he's still working with Dick. Others come to mind are Lambert [D.] Austin [Jr.], Don [Donald E.] Prevett, Tom [C. Thomas] Modlin [Jr.] and Jene [A.] Richart—one of the guys that used to work for me, he's been there a long time. Probably good folks to interview."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, sir. Well, thanks so much."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.116856787464434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1969 through 1972. September 1, ‘69 to August 31, ‘72."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we are in Lesterville, Missouri. And we will begin with probably the most common question is why did you join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Uncle Horatio spoke Spanish. Aunt Rose spoke Hungarian, and they hosted some refugees from Hungary after the 1956 revolution. They hosted some refugees from Cuba after the Cuban revolution. They also had several they hosted some exchange students from Peru. And I became fascinated with Latin America. I took Spanish in high school and was relatively good at it. Then, after three years of college as a physics major, I decided I wanted to be a teacher and they had a program in which they were recruiting teachers. I would get a teaching certificate and I would get a assignment in Honduras or Peru, which was all the things I wanted at that time. So that was that was an offer I couldn't refuse. We were also great admirers of President Kennedy and the Peace Corps always sounded like a good idea to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great, great. Before joining the Peace Corps, we talked a little bit about your aunt and uncle and their activities. Any other childhood or education or other experiences that you think contributed to your joining the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the oldest of eight children. The house was getting kind of crowded. And when I was in college, I was working three different jobs. And this would be a way to kind of break that pattern. And I could get out of town and finish up my education at Brockport State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was quite the I assume then that getting the teaching certificate was a big motivating factor."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.574285319404925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Uncle Horatio spoke Spanish. Aunt Rose spoke Hungarian, and they hosted some refugees from Hungary after the 1956 revolution. They hosted some refugees from Cuba after the Cuban revolution. They also had several they hosted some exchange students from Peru. And I became fascinated with Latin America. I took Spanish in high school and was relatively good at it. Then, after three years of college as a physics major, I decided I wanted to be a teacher and they had a program in which they were recruiting teachers. I would get a teaching certificate and I would get a assignment in Honduras or Peru, which was all the things I wanted at that time. So that was that was an offer I couldn't refuse. We were also great admirers of President Kennedy and the Peace Corps always sounded like a good idea to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great, great. Before joining the Peace Corps, we talked a little bit about your aunt and uncle and their activities. Any other childhood or education or other experiences that you think contributed to your joining the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the oldest of eight children. The house was getting kind of crowded. And when I was in college, I was working three different jobs. And this would be a way to kind of break that pattern. And I could get out of town and finish up my education at Brockport State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was quite the I assume then that getting the teaching certificate was a big motivating factor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. You also have we so we had to take the 18 hours of education courses. We took Spanish every semester because we were going to be teaching teachers. So we had to do this efficiently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was your degree then from Brockport?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.08253924378325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the oldest of eight children. The house was getting kind of crowded. And when I was in college, I was working three different jobs. And this would be a way to kind of break that pattern. And I could get out of town and finish up my education at Brockport State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was quite the I assume then that getting the teaching certificate was a big motivating factor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. You also have we so we had to take the 18 hours of education courses. We took Spanish every semester because we were going to be teaching teachers. So we had to do this efficiently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was your degree then from Brockport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My degree was from Brockport. It was a Bachelor of Science and Physics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, all right, great. So how did you hear about this offer about the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.758376937536944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. You also have we so we had to take the 18 hours of education courses. We took Spanish every semester because we were going to be teaching teachers. So we had to do this efficiently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was your degree then from Brockport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My degree was from Brockport. It was a Bachelor of Science and Physics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, all right, great. So how did you hear about this offer about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I saw it in a brochure or an advertisement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you studying before that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.17597437504105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My degree was from Brockport. It was a Bachelor of Science and Physics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, all right, great. So how did you hear about this offer about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I saw it in a brochure or an advertisement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you studying before that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at Loras College in Dubuque, Iowa. It's a small Catholic men's college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name of it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.266635030914877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at Loras College in Dubuque, Iowa. It's a small Catholic men's college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Loras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "L-O?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "L-O-R-A-S. Word in Spanish, parrots. Named after a bishop who was one of the early bishops in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. And so you're your training was actually part of an undergraduate degree program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 18.074038923238753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Loras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "L-O?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "L-O-R-A-S. Word in Spanish, parrots. Named after a bishop who was one of the early bishops in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. And so you're your training was actually part of an undergraduate degree program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have any training specifically related to Honduras or was mostly the language around you had intensive Spanish, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.971154359154172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "L-O-R-A-S. Word in Spanish, parrots. Named after a bishop who was one of the early bishops in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. And so you're your training was actually part of an undergraduate degree program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have any training specifically related to Honduras or was mostly the language around you had intensive Spanish, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Also, the spring break before our final summer, they arranged a trip for us to Honduras to spend a week there. My mom didn't want to invest in another member of everybody and then have people drop out right away. So they took us, right. They took us to Honduras. I got off the plane in Tegucigalpa, got in another plane right away to San Pedro Sula, got on another plane to Santa Barbara. So I went from a four engine to a big two engine prop to a DC three, like my dad flew with the Second World War. He was a navigator radio operator. So it's really an interesting progression of aircraft. Yes. So I spent several days in Santa Barbara with Craig Wanky, who was a Peace Corps volunteer, and he wickiup and got to visit a couple of other places, sort of a couple older volunteers. And I realized this is going to really change me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You realized then?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.967949287949079, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have any training specifically related to Honduras or was mostly the language around you had intensive Spanish, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Also, the spring break before our final summer, they arranged a trip for us to Honduras to spend a week there. My mom didn't want to invest in another member of everybody and then have people drop out right away. So they took us, right. They took us to Honduras. I got off the plane in Tegucigalpa, got in another plane right away to San Pedro Sula, got on another plane to Santa Barbara. So I went from a four engine to a big two engine prop to a DC three, like my dad flew with the Second World War. He was a navigator radio operator. So it's really an interesting progression of aircraft. Yes. So I spent several days in Santa Barbara with Craig Wanky, who was a Peace Corps volunteer, and he wickiup and got to visit a couple of other places, sort of a couple older volunteers. And I realized this is going to really change me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You realized then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. But I still like it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. All right. So you really had more prep than those of us who didn't get there until we were ready. So this question is a little inappropriate about like your reaction when you were accepted. But basically when you decided to change and study Brockport, was there much of a reaction among your family and the people that were close to you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.19499912092479, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. But I still like it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. All right. So you really had more prep than those of us who didn't get there until we were ready. So this question is a little inappropriate about like your reaction when you were accepted. But basically when you decided to change and study Brockport, was there much of a reaction among your family and the people that were close to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. That my parents were supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like to say we are the family admired John Kennedy. We thought that he thought maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yup, yup. And so did you have a preference aside from Latin America?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.438887912138654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. That my parents were supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like to say we are the family admired John Kennedy. We thought that he thought maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yup, yup. And so did you have a preference aside from Latin America?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So is there any particular with a particular people trained for this Peace Corps assignment, this Peace Corps program at Bridgeport Fort Brockport that focused on you becoming teachers in Latin America? Well, I was there. So aside from the general teaching, learning how to teach with a teach you how to teach in Latin America much cultural information and things like that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.820986569042947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like to say we are the family admired John Kennedy. We thought that he thought maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yup, yup. And so did you have a preference aside from Latin America?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So is there any particular with a particular people trained for this Peace Corps assignment, this Peace Corps program at Bridgeport Fort Brockport that focused on you becoming teachers in Latin America? Well, I was there. So aside from the general teaching, learning how to teach with a teach you how to teach in Latin America much cultural information and things like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have had several of our language teachers were from Latin America. OK, so there were there were times when we would have discussions on the culture. But we were trained as a group, mostly, mostly specialty classes. It was all the Peace Corps for the education, psychology, the developmental psychology, the teaching methods. The only people in the room or the instructor and teach for trainees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many people were in your group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.356651743381052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So is there any particular with a particular people trained for this Peace Corps assignment, this Peace Corps program at Bridgeport Fort Brockport that focused on you becoming teachers in Latin America? Well, I was there. So aside from the general teaching, learning how to teach with a teach you how to teach in Latin America much cultural information and things like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have had several of our language teachers were from Latin America. OK, so there were there were times when we would have discussions on the culture. But we were trained as a group, mostly, mostly specialty classes. It was all the Peace Corps for the education, psychology, the developmental psychology, the teaching methods. The only people in the room or the instructor and teach for trainees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many people were in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Started out with 50 and 25 went overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so there was a slow attrition over?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.062946381534502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have had several of our language teachers were from Latin America. OK, so there were there were times when we would have discussions on the culture. But we were trained as a group, mostly, mostly specialty classes. It was all the Peace Corps for the education, psychology, the developmental psychology, the teaching methods. The only people in the room or the instructor and teach for trainees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many people were in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Started out with 50 and 25 went overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so there was a slow attrition over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Several people got offers for graduate school and decided they'd rather do that. People dropped out little by little."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK, what do you think the training adequately prepared you for what you were going to be doing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.958829312816114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Started out with 50 and 25 went overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so there was a slow attrition over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Several people got offers for graduate school and decided they'd rather do that. People dropped out little by little."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK, what do you think the training adequately prepared you for what you were going to be doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there any particular Honduran host teachers with you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.233122608414952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there any particular Honduran host teachers with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not at Rockport, an Ecuadorian and some Costa Rican. And we had a couple of visitors down the road, Stevie Yorkeys was from Honduras, I forgot exactly what role he played in Rockport. She was there for the last summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He later became interim director in Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Good. So your initial entry into the country, would that be going back to the trip to Santa Barbara and your impressions there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.147914009349947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not at Rockport, an Ecuadorian and some Costa Rican. And we had a couple of visitors down the road, Stevie Yorkeys was from Honduras, I forgot exactly what role he played in Rockport. She was there for the last summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He later became interim director in Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Good. So your initial entry into the country, would that be going back to the trip to Santa Barbara and your impressions there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You spent there. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did let's get a little bit more picturesque about like what the physical environment was like that struck you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.719904454833275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He later became interim director in Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Good. So your initial entry into the country, would that be going back to the trip to Santa Barbara and your impressions there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You spent there. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did let's get a little bit more picturesque about like what the physical environment was like that struck you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And which was the first thing that struck me was they had only got electricity only about five hours a day, two hours right before sunrise and then three hours starting at sunset. So electricity went off like at night or 93. The place is very quiet. You know, at night, very, very little vehicle traffic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.244338283148084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You spent there. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did let's get a little bit more picturesque about like what the physical environment was like that struck you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And which was the first thing that struck me was they had only got electricity only about five hours a day, two hours right before sunrise and then three hours starting at sunset. So electricity went off like at night or 93. The place is very quiet. You know, at night, very, very little vehicle traffic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Also, the fact that the water was not on all the time. So there was a large pila store water and the water did come on. Craig would fill it up and you would hope and then Daddy come on again before he had to fill it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.938153647942315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And which was the first thing that struck me was they had only got electricity only about five hours a day, two hours right before sunrise and then three hours starting at sunset. So electricity went off like at night or 93. The place is very quiet. You know, at night, very, very little vehicle traffic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Also, the fact that the water was not on all the time. So there was a large pila store water and the water did come on. Craig would fill it up and you would hope and then Daddy come on again before he had to fill it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The water was just too hot to be able to drink. The water was an issue. Had to boil it first. This was before bottled water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have those iodine, the tablets to put in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.820170719935906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Also, the fact that the water was not on all the time. So there was a large pila store water and the water did come on. Craig would fill it up and you would hope and then Daddy come on again before he had to fill it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The water was just too hot to be able to drink. The water was an issue. Had to boil it first. This was before bottled water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have those iodine, the tablets to put in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had iodine tablets in case we couldn't get boiled water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And did you meet any co-workers, like Honduran teachers while you were there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.91130079992878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The water was just too hot to be able to drink. The water was an issue. Had to boil it first. This was before bottled water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have those iodine, the tablets to put in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had iodine tablets in case we couldn't get boiled water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And did you meet any co-workers, like Honduran teachers while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not on that visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and did so when then when you came back now as a volunteer, where were you assigned?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.79033422214309, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had iodine tablets in case we couldn't get boiled water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And did you meet any co-workers, like Honduran teachers while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not on that visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and did so when then when you came back now as a volunteer, where were you assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was assigned at the National Teachers cut teachers college. Yes, we will give you a preference. OK, and I got there in the middle of the semester. So the first class, I thought was a five or six week class for elementary school teachers, try to teach them some science. Meanwhile, I was told this is what you're going to teach next semester. So I had time to find the equipment I wanted to use in the teaching and I had time to develop some physics laboratories"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the Peace Corps help facilitate any of that for you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 20.878149135714544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not on that visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and did so when then when you came back now as a volunteer, where were you assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was assigned at the National Teachers cut teachers college. Yes, we will give you a preference. OK, and I got there in the middle of the semester. So the first class, I thought was a five or six week class for elementary school teachers, try to teach them some science. Meanwhile, I was told this is what you're going to teach next semester. So I had time to find the equipment I wanted to use in the teaching and I had time to develop some physics laboratories"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the Peace Corps help facilitate any of that for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was all done with the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the school. And how did you feel about the resources that the school had?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.27030808674675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. And several of those students went on to get their keys in physics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Awesome. That's really impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Come on. Came out of at the university. And when I visited there on my Fulbright, they still had in the library the physics journals that I had gotten monthly when I was a Peace Corps volunteer, say they found them useful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet. Yeah, that is great. And did you. Was it how did the workday work for you in the daily and where you lived and things like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I lived about. 20 or 30 minute bus ride from the from the school, so typical workday, I'd have to be out catching one of the mini busses. Seven-thirty, eight o'clock. Take the trip across town from Comayaguela to Tegucigalpa. And then the school day usually ended mid-afternoon when I had an evening class that would usually be just one day a week. So I have evening classes were mostly the primary school teachers trying to get a parking lot of. A lot of the teachers did not have teaching certificates at that time. So the whole project was to try to get every teacher into Honduras to have one Honduran teaching certificate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you did have a goal like that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.18923120749639, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Come on. Came out of at the university. And when I visited there on my Fulbright, they still had in the library the physics journals that I had gotten monthly when I was a Peace Corps volunteer, say they found them useful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet. Yeah, that is great. And did you. Was it how did the workday work for you in the daily and where you lived and things like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I lived about. 20 or 30 minute bus ride from the from the school, so typical workday, I'd have to be out catching one of the mini busses. Seven-thirty, eight o'clock. Take the trip across town from Comayaguela to Tegucigalpa. And then the school day usually ended mid-afternoon when I had an evening class that would usually be just one day a week. So I have evening classes were mostly the primary school teachers trying to get a parking lot of. A lot of the teachers did not have teaching certificates at that time. So the whole project was to try to get every teacher into Honduras to have one Honduran teaching certificate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you did have a goal like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was that was the big overall?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And were the teachers who would they selected based on merit or any particular qualifications?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.21025689721821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I lived about. 20 or 30 minute bus ride from the from the school, so typical workday, I'd have to be out catching one of the mini busses. Seven-thirty, eight o'clock. Take the trip across town from Comayaguela to Tegucigalpa. And then the school day usually ended mid-afternoon when I had an evening class that would usually be just one day a week. So I have evening classes were mostly the primary school teachers trying to get a parking lot of. A lot of the teachers did not have teaching certificates at that time. So the whole project was to try to get every teacher into Honduras to have one Honduran teaching certificate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you did have a goal like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was that was the big overall?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And were the teachers who would they selected based on merit or any particular qualifications?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not sure how they were selected. I mean, I was I was given a roster and these are teachers. This is supposed to teach them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your impression of them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.344729885798012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was that was the big overall?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And were the teachers who would they selected based on merit or any particular qualifications?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not sure how they were selected. I mean, I was I was given a roster and these are teachers. This is supposed to teach them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your impression of them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some were very good. But all of this being used to memorizing stuff. Yeah, I went out to visit with teachers supervisor. He says today you're going to see the anatomy of a fish. I says, all right. He says, that's what this guy always teaches when I come to observe him. And the students were very good. Copying down into their put knows exactly what the teacher told them. Right. But instead of going out, getting a fish and dropping it open to see what it looked like, they would draw all these, label all these parts. And they were all saying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is so there was no fish?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.605255428664458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not sure how they were selected. I mean, I was I was given a roster and these are teachers. This is supposed to teach them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your impression of them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some were very good. But all of this being used to memorizing stuff. Yeah, I went out to visit with teachers supervisor. He says today you're going to see the anatomy of a fish. I says, all right. He says, that's what this guy always teaches when I come to observe him. And the students were very good. Copying down into their put knows exactly what the teacher told them. Right. But instead of going out, getting a fish and dropping it open to see what it looked like, they would draw all these, label all these parts. And they were all saying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is so there was no fish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To break the rope. Trying to get people to observe and draw conclusions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So basically the scientific method?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.005839365182732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some were very good. But all of this being used to memorizing stuff. Yeah, I went out to visit with teachers supervisor. He says today you're going to see the anatomy of a fish. I says, all right. He says, that's what this guy always teaches when I come to observe him. And the students were very good. Copying down into their put knows exactly what the teacher told them. Right. But instead of going out, getting a fish and dropping it open to see what it looked like, they would draw all these, label all these parts. And they were all saying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is so there was no fish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To break the rope. Trying to get people to observe and draw conclusions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So basically the scientific method?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They would memorize the scientific method and not use it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. And did you have any colleagues in among your your other professors or teachers that you developed a relationship with?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.05659180886757, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They would memorize the scientific method and not use it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. And did you have any colleagues in among your your other professors or teachers that you developed a relationship with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we get invited to all the parties. Arturo Suarez taught math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, he was assistant director."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.366162726996997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, he was assistant director."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know about that picture of somebody looks like. Oh, OK, Mark, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember all the names now and then we'll spend 50 years, yeah, kind of jumbled up with the mathematics teacher and I got along real well. He was also trying to teach me about things. He had just gotten his master's in mathematics from the University of Florida. OK, so he was trying to get people to think mathematically differently. The other physics teacher and I didn't get along real well, he just kind of standoffish. I think he felt threatened, but I was replacing somebody who had been teaching physics and who was in the states to get an advanced degree. So I was put into a slot that was already there. They didn't say I was substituting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.073514141107772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know about that picture of somebody looks like. Oh, OK, Mark, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember all the names now and then we'll spend 50 years, yeah, kind of jumbled up with the mathematics teacher and I got along real well. He was also trying to teach me about things. He had just gotten his master's in mathematics from the University of Florida. OK, so he was trying to get people to think mathematically differently. The other physics teacher and I didn't get along real well, he just kind of standoffish. I think he felt threatened, but I was replacing somebody who had been teaching physics and who was in the states to get an advanced degree. So I was put into a slot that was already there. They didn't say I was substituting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I got invited to the teachers’ parties. I played with the faculty against the students in soccer. Uh huh. I coached the basketball team. We developed a photography club and I taught how to how to develop film and how to make photos. Oh cool. The students came with initiatives on this. Ask how we how we could do this. They found out I knew something about photography and there was a dark room in the school with equipment that was not being used or anything, and it was a camera. So I lent them thirty bucks for a camera and they paid me back with money they collected by taking each other's I.D. cards. You needed pictures for all kinds of stuff in Honduras and the students found out they could do it cheaper than having it done on the street. The students were they were pretty cool, but they took a lot of initiative. But most of them were college age, a little older, some were married. And they, they got into the real support through a competitive exam and they all had scholarships. And so that was a bit of it to them. This was a high motivation to just to do well and stay there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Great. What about your you know, your vacation time, your work and living arrangements?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.749676462424924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, I got married about four months after I got in country with a Peace Corps volunteer in a different group, and she was in group fifteen. She was a registered nurse. And so we leave about the same time in the morning for our jobs. Sometimes we'd be on the same bus for a while and we get off about the same time. We didn't have a refrigerator for the first year, but we could get cold stuff from across the street or we watch something on the way home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Did you have an apartment or a house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had we have lots of. On the front of the block look like one solid wall with doors in it, and some had windows or painted different colors, there were different heights, but they're all there. There was no gaps in it. It was kind of like being in a trailer where you walk in one end and in the other end was the bathroom and the pillar and the small patio. OK, and so there is a living room, dining room, a kitchen in the bedroom. And there was a volunteer leaving the country just about the time we were setting up house. And he was a very large person and he had a very large bed. He sold it to us at a at a bargain. So we had a almost as big as the bedroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and did you guys take any trips and vacations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Guatemala. We went to pick it up and we went to Panama a couple of times. A couple of Linda's friends came to visit us and we met him at the airport, got on the same plane, went to Panama, took a bus back from Panama, stopped at Puntarenas in Costa Rica. Yeah. So we got we take our vacations out of town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, all right. And. Did your relationships with Peace Corps staff or change over time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.50577341040114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Guatemala. We went to pick it up and we went to Panama a couple of times. A couple of Linda's friends came to visit us and we met him at the airport, got on the same plane, went to Panama, took a bus back from Panama, stopped at Puntarenas in Costa Rica. Yeah. So we got we take our vacations out of town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, all right. And. Did your relationships with Peace Corps staff or change over time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we got into country, the director did not approve of us getting married. Oh, but he, he was replaced within a month by another director that was hanging around. And Henry Reynolds, we wanted to talk to him. He looked at the director's guidebook."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We should frown upon this. So he frowned and he was just good luck."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That is great. So did you extend for third year then? Did I hear properly that you were there for three years?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.117526011556823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we got into country, the director did not approve of us getting married. Oh, but he, he was replaced within a month by another director that was hanging around. And Henry Reynolds, we wanted to talk to him. He looked at the director's guidebook."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We should frown upon this. So he frowned and he was just good luck."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That is great. So did you extend for third year then? Did I hear properly that you were there for three years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. OK, what happened was I figured that I was just getting to learn things well. Mm hmm. And meanwhile, they were sending in a new physics teacher. And so I stayed around with him for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a team teaching?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.908362235063137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We should frown upon this. So he frowned and he was just good luck."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That is great. So did you extend for third year then? Did I hear properly that you were there for three years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. OK, what happened was I figured that I was just getting to learn things well. Mm hmm. And meanwhile, they were sending in a new physics teacher. And so I stayed around with him for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a team teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we, we. He taught different classes, but I was able to tell him where everything was and how to do certain things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Was that the fellow that had gone away to study?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.898180261181263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. OK, what happened was I figured that I was just getting to learn things well. Mm hmm. And meanwhile, they were sending in a new physics teacher. And so I stayed around with him for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a team teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we, we. He taught different classes, but I was able to tell him where everything was and how to do certain things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Was that the fellow that had gone away to study?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was still studying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so if you look back on your tour of service, who knew there'd be someone mowing the lawn today? What do you think were your main accomplishments?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.343432421211435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was still studying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so if you look back on your tour of service, who knew there'd be someone mowing the lawn today? What do you think were your main accomplishments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well. I think I did help great reporting, at least in physics, and we threw a science fair one year. Mm hmm. I. There weren't any prizes, but I gave the students an assignment to do a project and then and then to discuss or at least do an exposition of what they learned. Mm hmm. And there were some very good ones. One person I gave a brochure of, this is. What caught yours look like a failure, this nutrient in that nutrient, and she went out and found corners and looked just like the pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, cool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so this is what that was. That's that kind of thing was very useful. Well, the students thought this is such a good idea. They organized the science fair for Tegucigalpa. And so they went out and got prizes for this for the best presentations, did all the judges. Awesome. And then schools outside Tegucigalpa said, wait a minute, why don't we have this for us, too? So for a few years there, they had regional science fairs. And this is something I started with this we support. And then these being all teachers, they went out and did their way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And do you have any regrets or feelings of things you didn't accomplish?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 24.82603602356826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well. I think I did help great reporting, at least in physics, and we threw a science fair one year. Mm hmm. I. There weren't any prizes, but I gave the students an assignment to do a project and then and then to discuss or at least do an exposition of what they learned. Mm hmm. And there were some very good ones. One person I gave a brochure of, this is. What caught yours look like a failure, this nutrient in that nutrient, and she went out and found corners and looked just like the pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, cool."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so this is what that was. That's that kind of thing was very useful. Well, the students thought this is such a good idea. They organized the science fair for Tegucigalpa. And so they went out and got prizes for this for the best presentations, did all the judges. Awesome. And then schools outside Tegucigalpa said, wait a minute, why don't we have this for us, too? So for a few years there, they had regional science fairs. And this is something I started with this we support. And then these being all teachers, they went out and did their way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And do you have any regrets or feelings of things you didn't accomplish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do I usually don't set a lot of goals. I mean, I try to do the best I can. If I had it back when I ran track, then I would try to break a certain time. But when you're trying to teach. How do you I mean, it's hard to we didn't have any test. Students took, you know, as I did. I don't think I had any real regrets of things I didn't accomplish. I didn't have any unreasonable expectations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how did your Peace Corps experience influence the future?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.41096787619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're required in an academic setting. It is to teach the class well or you don't. And so I think I did well in that, especially since when I go back for later visits, I am warmly greeted by my former students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't that great? And to provide better understanding of Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know we did have a lot of discussions on cultural differences that time, there was there was protests against the Vietnam War and the students would take me to the protest, but we'd stand in the back room because they said if they see a green go up in front, somebody come up and hit you. And then all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were a gringo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I'm a six foot two, so I stood up above everybody else. We also played a group of Americans played in the National Basketball League in Honduras. And I was one of the better Spanish speakers. So I got elected to be the representatives and went to all the meetings of the league teams. And that that's where I learned a lot of the cultural differences, for example, that in Tegucigalpa there were groups of called Arabased and they were mostly Palestinians. There were also a group of Jews. And they had businesses that competed. And one of the teams was mostly Autobus and the other one was mostly the Jews. And I hadn't realized that until I went to those meetings that there were those kinds of social or cultural differences. Yeah. Later I learned a lot more about the Lebanese and Palestinian influence. And in Honduras, I went to a geographers meeting about 20 years later and someone was discussing how the culture of the Palestinians was to help other people out. If you're successful, you give loans. So I hadn't realized that that's the way it was working there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the north, in the north coast. They called the Lebanese and Palestinians turkos. And the Latinos would put a little tone in their voice when they talked about the turkos. But that was so, I mean."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 16.0121865291, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know we did have a lot of discussions on cultural differences that time, there was there was protests against the Vietnam War and the students would take me to the protest, but we'd stand in the back room because they said if they see a green go up in front, somebody come up and hit you. And then all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were a gringo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I'm a six foot two, so I stood up above everybody else. We also played a group of Americans played in the National Basketball League in Honduras. And I was one of the better Spanish speakers. So I got elected to be the representatives and went to all the meetings of the league teams. And that that's where I learned a lot of the cultural differences, for example, that in Tegucigalpa there were groups of called Arabased and they were mostly Palestinians. There were also a group of Jews. And they had businesses that competed. And one of the teams was mostly Autobus and the other one was mostly the Jews. And I hadn't realized that until I went to those meetings that there were those kinds of social or cultural differences. Yeah. Later I learned a lot more about the Lebanese and Palestinian influence. And in Honduras, I went to a geographers meeting about 20 years later and someone was discussing how the culture of the Palestinians was to help other people out. If you're successful, you give loans. So I hadn't realized that that's the way it was working there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the north, in the north coast. They called the Lebanese and Palestinians turkos. And the Latinos would put a little tone in their voice when they talked about the turkos. But that was so, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They also used that term."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And so in terms of promoting better understanding of other people by Americans?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.360724110000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They also used that term."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And so in terms of promoting better understanding of other people by Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I learned an awful lot about Latin America. I knew, for example, during the Salvadorian conflict that we weren't getting the straight scoop from Washington. Ronald Reagan was claiming that there were arms being smuggled overland from Nicaragua to El Salvador. Well, if I went out on a ride in the couple of months later, they would ask everybody, see, a big gringo. I was tall, skinny guy, right? Them, you know, people out there see things you can't sneak it by. And if there would have been arms being smuggled, there would have been evidence, people would have seen it there. We've been witnesses. So I understood a little bit about that way at that time that we're just not getting the straight scoop flying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so do you, but do you think that there was some link into how the Hondurans felt about Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't like really kind assess that, OK? All right. I got invited to there. We got invited to their parties. I got invited to join a local softball team with our Arturo Suarez, got us into their thinking, OK, if you guys want to send some ringers there, as we were, we were pretty good hitters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The and he understood I thought he was Peace Corps staff at that point."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.7341379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I learned an awful lot about Latin America. I knew, for example, during the Salvadorian conflict that we weren't getting the straight scoop from Washington. Ronald Reagan was claiming that there were arms being smuggled overland from Nicaragua to El Salvador. Well, if I went out on a ride in the couple of months later, they would ask everybody, see, a big gringo. I was tall, skinny guy, right? Them, you know, people out there see things you can't sneak it by. And if there would have been arms being smuggled, there would have been evidence, people would have seen it there. We've been witnesses. So I understood a little bit about that way at that time that we're just not getting the straight scoop flying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so do you, but do you think that there was some link into how the Hondurans felt about Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't like really kind assess that, OK? All right. I got invited to there. We got invited to their parties. I got invited to join a local softball team with our Arturo Suarez, got us into their thinking, OK, if you guys want to send some ringers there, as we were, we were pretty good hitters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The and he understood I thought he was Peace Corps staff at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps staff. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it's interesting for me to hear the influence of sports participation."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.037931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't like really kind assess that, OK? All right. I got invited to there. We got invited to their parties. I got invited to join a local softball team with our Arturo Suarez, got us into their thinking, OK, if you guys want to send some ringers there, as we were, we were pretty good hitters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The and he understood I thought he was Peace Corps staff at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps staff. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it's interesting for me to hear the influence of sports participation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think I would, I would, I would coach the basketball team at the end of the year, but then we went out to visit another school. I'd have to be referee. And so I would have to tell those students to give you five start and after five minutes you come in and that I have to go out and be referee. They were friendly game."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well. And they trusted you to be the referee."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 14.48659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps staff. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it's interesting for me to hear the influence of sports participation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think I would, I would, I would coach the basketball team at the end of the year, but then we went out to visit another school. I'd have to be referee. And so I would have to tell those students to give you five start and after five minutes you come in and that I have to go out and be referee. They were friendly game."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well. And they trusted you to be the referee."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only one who knew the rules out. Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's important. So have you continued any involvement with your country of service or contact with people from that country?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How. It really changed my life. I wouldn't have gotten into grad school, I got into. Hmm. My wife and I got really close. We had our rough spots now and then. But usually she's also a very generous person. And you can tell when you watch her work that she learned enough Spanish that when she was in Toledo, she would have Spanish speaking clients. Mm hmm. And when she was on home care. Yes. Yes. So I think it was I think it was it really helped make me what I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Great. Is there anything else you'd like to add?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've met Peace Corps volunteers on some of these trips, and I think. They're having a lot harder time doing they're doing their job, they're living allowance is probably not enough. All right. I know the prices are going up and so on, and they seem to have a little bit Peace Corps out of Honduras now because it's got too dangerous. So I think the Peace Corps, we were we were there at the golden era. And it was a time when relationships were quite close, I think, in the 1980s with the U.S. involvement in Central America. Americans really aren't well liked in a lot of places there anymore. I found out that some of the contacts I had as a Fulbright. But by then, I had become a little better knowing my way around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Great. Well, this has been very, very good. You you're obviously very comfortable with speaking and we're ahead of time. So is there any other thing that you'd like to say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really think that service to others is a good way to develop your own character skills. You still try to get involved with the university, it's becoming formal. We now have a service learning projects, right? Yeah, some of the ones I get involved with, I'm a I'm a gardener, so I give advice on gardening and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it you're what you're interested in your strengths?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've met Peace Corps volunteers on some of these trips, and I think. They're having a lot harder time doing they're doing their job, they're living allowance is probably not enough. All right. I know the prices are going up and so on, and they seem to have a little bit Peace Corps out of Honduras now because it's got too dangerous. So I think the Peace Corps, we were we were there at the golden era. And it was a time when relationships were quite close, I think, in the 1980s with the U.S. involvement in Central America. Americans really aren't well liked in a lot of places there anymore. I found out that some of the contacts I had as a Fulbright. But by then, I had become a little better knowing my way around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Great. Well, this has been very, very good. You you're obviously very comfortable with speaking and we're ahead of time. So is there any other thing that you'd like to say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really think that service to others is a good way to develop your own character skills. You still try to get involved with the university, it's becoming formal. We now have a service learning projects, right? Yeah, some of the ones I get involved with, I'm a I'm a gardener, so I give advice on gardening and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it you're what you're interested in your strengths?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Also, I've gotten involved with a number of environmental issues, trying to stop a deep injection well for liquid waste in Michigan, looking at the loss of well water when they pumped it out of a quarry in Michigan. I've been having lunch some more landfills and you can believe that that's awesome of working with engineers to solve human problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. I like that. Working with engineers to solve human problems. It sounds like a motto."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00148:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really think that service to others is a good way to develop your own character skills. You still try to get involved with the university, it's becoming formal. We now have a service learning projects, right? Yeah, some of the ones I get involved with, I'm a I'm a gardener, so I give advice on gardening and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it you're what you're interested in your strengths?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Also, I've gotten involved with a number of environmental issues, trying to stop a deep injection well for liquid waste in Michigan, looking at the loss of well water when they pumped it out of a quarry in Michigan. I've been having lunch some more landfills and you can believe that that's awesome of working with engineers to solve human problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. I like that. Working with engineers to solve human problems. It sounds like a motto."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the model is the one that John Hall, the engineer, says, tell me what the bad news is and I'll fix it. Great. Great. I'm the one that finds the bad news is a geologist who investigates what the ground is, what's going on underground, and then you'll fix it and usually does. A lot of my former students work for him. So I see my students out there in the environmental field. Some are partners in the companies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, great. So you've helped contribute to a new generation of leaders?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00247:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 70.60782774337781, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was on the staff when they selected [the Class of 1978]. I guess probably the week I went on staff was the first week they all started coming in for all their exams and physicals and everything, and so every Wednesday night, we’d go down to the Gilruth Center and have a barbecue dinner, and John [W.] Young would make a speech, and somebody else would talk, and we would meet everybody and visit with them. That was senior staff—a few members would go down and meet with them to get to know them a little better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have input in the selection at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. I was just there because I could. Because I was on staff. That’s a perk. Another perk was, Prince Charles [Prince of Wales] came to lunch one day. It was on a Sunday, and I could have gone to lunch with Prince Charles. I decided I’d rather come to San Antonio [Texas] for the weekend. Looking back, I think, “Ivy, you really should have gone, so you could have said you actually met Prince Charles,” but. I’m not a really great fan of Prince Charles. I guess I figured, “What difference does it make? All you can do is tell people that, and then it’s like you’re name-dropping, so what difference did it make anyway?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on staff long enough to see the women go through their challenges of being accepted as part of the workforce and in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I went on staff; we went through the selection process. They were picked in January, I think is when we had the orientation dinner, and they knew they’d been picked. Then they didn’t come back until July, and by that time, I had gone to flight software."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you stay in touch with them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00247:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 51.991283011675584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any spaceflight. Any spaceflight. People—we get complacent. We get very complacent. The San Antonio paper had a FedEx plane displayed on it this morning—it happened in China, I guess, or Korea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Japan, I think, was where it went down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was overseas; it wasn’t local. But you know, one of the pilots was from here. I’m sure they may not have done that if one of the pilots hadn’t been from here, but again, you’ve got to remember those things don’t just stay up by themselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you certainly have such a history as part of the design elements of the Shuttle. Watching the Approach and Landing Tests must have been very personal and gratifying for you to see, and then of course, the STS-1 launch. Can you share with us what it felt to know that your spacecraft was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was doing it? What it was supposed to do?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just doing it, yes."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00247:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 32.41068711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all left before I got out the door. Three of us walked with 20 years, and two took early retirement. I think it was three and two. It was me and Bill and Fred—well, I bet Jack left then, too. But I think he and Stan [Stanley P.] Mann—maybe they were the two that took early outs. So years later—or six months or a year later, I asked John Aaron, I said, “Didn’t it bother you that all your people left at one time?” “Oh, no, it just happened.” I said, “How come you always treated me like you did?” “I didn’t trust you.” “Why?” “Because you didn’t do things like me. You didn’t do what I would have done.” I said, “John, if I would have done what you would have done every time, we didn’t need but one of us. Then you’re redundant.” I said, “Was I ever wrong? Can you name one time I ever led you astray on anything?” “No.” Off and on, I worked with him from ’81 to ’84. What do you do? You don’t do anything about it. You leave. Pick up your marbles and go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After 20 years, you had a lot of lessons learned on what to do, what not to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first time I became a section head, I told the people that worked for me, I said, “I don’t know that I know what to do to do this right, but I know a whole bunch of things to not do that I’ve learned from other people messing up. So I’m going to avoid those and make my own mistakes.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe one of the things that I’ve heard you say was that effective communication is so important."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us some of the ideas that you have used for effective communication during your leadership time, or maybe just in your interpersonal skills of working with all types of personalities and skills, to pull them together?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00026:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 38, "return_to_go": 94.8334523052988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I think, and I might have mentioned this, I had the benefit early in my career of some excellent bosses and mentors. And as I look back over my career, that really made a big difference. So for that, I am very grateful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, sometimes it takes having some mentors or some really bright people to help you along and get you into those right places, right, who know your skills and where your best fit would be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And I've tried to emulate that since then and even in retirement. I'm always looking for folks that need a hand or need some advice, and I continue to find that very gratifying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure everyone appreciates that you've helped out. Okay. So kind of leading off where we were last time, we were just starting to get into when NARA became an independent agency from GSA. Do you remember anything from this time? Maybe some of the changes that were happening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was involved in this sort of transformation?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00026:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And between now and the next time, I will once again see what I can do about making this computer work. The sound works so that I don't have to continually have this ceiling fan growing out of my head when we talk. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. That is not a problem at all. [LAUGHS] In fact, my internet went out halfway through our talk, but I've been recording you on my phone. We've got the whole text message from the internet provider and everything saying there’s a power outage in the entire area. So . . . [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my God. Well, again, your smiling face, as still as it was, was still projecting on my phone. So, I mean, one of the ways I worked my way through college was as a radio announcer. And one of the things that radio announcers try to do is make each other laugh when they're on the air, and they do some outrageous things to each other. And I am very adept at just keeping on talking and hoping someone's listening. And so when you went from your video to your still, I thought, okay, here we go. I'm just going to keep on talking and see if I can hear her breathing on the other end. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was another reason why I kept saying, “Oh yeah.” “Wow.” “Okay.” “Yeah.” Just so that you knew I was still here. So again, technology. It's great when it works."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Well, thank you again for your time. And send me some dates when you get a chance. We'll figure out what works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. Yeah, that sounds great. Thank you again for today and enjoy your time. I think you were meeting a friend or something, so enjoy your time."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00026:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my God. Well, again, your smiling face, as still as it was, was still projecting on my phone. So, I mean, one of the ways I worked my way through college was as a radio announcer. And one of the things that radio announcers try to do is make each other laugh when they're on the air, and they do some outrageous things to each other. And I am very adept at just keeping on talking and hoping someone's listening. And so when you went from your video to your still, I thought, okay, here we go. I'm just going to keep on talking and see if I can hear her breathing on the other end. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was another reason why I kept saying, “Oh yeah.” “Wow.” “Okay.” “Yeah.” Just so that you knew I was still here. So again, technology. It's great when it works."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Well, thank you again for your time. And send me some dates when you get a chance. We'll figure out what works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. Yeah, that sounds great. Thank you again for today and enjoy your time. I think you were meeting a friend or something, so enjoy your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm still in the fundraising business for one thing or the other. And I'm going with a friend and someone who he thinks might be interested in one of the causes I'm working on. So anyway, we'll see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, well, good luck with that. But yeah, I'll send you an email with some more dates and we'll get something set up here."}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00026:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Well, thank you again for your time. And send me some dates when you get a chance. We'll figure out what works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. Yeah, that sounds great. Thank you again for today and enjoy your time. I think you were meeting a friend or something, so enjoy your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm still in the fundraising business for one thing or the other. And I'm going with a friend and someone who he thinks might be interested in one of the causes I'm working on. So anyway, we'll see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, well, good luck with that. But yeah, I'll send you an email with some more dates and we'll get something set up here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great. Thanks so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. Have a good day."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00708:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 22.342899265764533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the scuba is just a means to get to your work, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many divers are on a retrieval team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Typically we take out eight divers. We’re all retrieval crew and divers. We try and break that up. The underwater work takes anything from twenty to thirty minutes of work underwater. The first part is the hardest, installation of the plug. Depending on the weather we will send typically four people to do that and hold the rest of the work for the last four. If there’s bad weather, if the booster is surging, if you have issues with the nozzle—every splashdown is different—the nozzles get torn up. If there’s problems installing the DOP on the first dive, you have a second team that can do that. We’re limited by Coast Guard regulation to no decompression dives, so we have a limited amount of time underwater. We have basically the two dive teams to do the work, and if we don’t get it done then we have to wait a day till all the divers are fresh again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has that happened on occasion?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give us any examples?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00708:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 33.0578313716115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, everybody [mixes]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do the boats have specific divers that work one ship compared to the other ship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The captain and the first mate and the cook were pretty much always with the ship, and a lot of the crew would stay with the ship, just ended up that way. Most of the ship’s crew and the retrieval crew, we just went where we were told. We deliberately mixed it up so that everybody can work together. We don’t have one group start doing something different and then you get somebody else [to] join them and now you don’t know exactly what’s going on. You make the whole process transparent to everybody else. Everybody knows what you’re doing, and how you’re doing it. We have the same expectation from each of the groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how the photography mixed into this process."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it used to be a sideline. Wulf and I would take cameras down, and when we weren’t in the middle of doing something else we would take pictures. Occasionally they would actually allow us to take the video camera. As we got farther into the program the postflight assessment folks wanted some of that video and pictures, so we started doing a specific dive before the retrieval dives that were video and photo assessment. They didn’t use them often, but occasionally.\\n\\n You’d have the boosters here in the building and they would see a ding, a loss of paint, a bent piece of metal. They’d use our photos and videos to try and get an idea of when that happened. If it was something that we did to it during the recovery process, if it was something that was done at splashdown, or the real concern was if it was something that happened during flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your group use the photo and the video documentation that you were starting to accumulate?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00708:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re big, but when you got 23 other people that you know and there’s no gym—there’s a lounge, there’s a mess deck. One of the biggest problems is that there’s a walk-in fridge. If we’re not out too long there’s always food in it. One of the biggest problems is eating too much. And there’s nowhere to exercise. We had a couple folks trying jogging around the ship, and it just doesn’t work well. There’s not much distance you can go. With a ship in seas it’s almost hazardous to do. One fellow brought aboard a rowing machine. People have tried that. But again, with the seas it’s hard to do any motion that requires you to do repetitive action lined up with a machine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you guys have any traditions when you take off or when you come home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. It’s another day at work. Which is cool when the weather is good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you tell us how long you can dive for? I was looking through my notes and I didn’t see that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s variable. It depends on how deep you go. The regulations are that we can’t plan a decompression dive. If somebody were to get stuck and you ended up staying so deep that you had a decompression obligation, that just happened. But you can’t plan that. If you look at the Navy dive tables, it changes. If you only go down 100 feet, I think you have 20 minutes.\\n\\n Nowadays we don’t use the Navy dive tables, you use dive computers. They go with you, and based on where you are right now and where you’ve been on this dive it figures out how long you can stay right where you are. Typically we’re at about 120 feet, which is about 15 minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a short amount of time."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00708:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8160000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. It’s another day at work. Which is cool when the weather is good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you tell us how long you can dive for? I was looking through my notes and I didn’t see that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s variable. It depends on how deep you go. The regulations are that we can’t plan a decompression dive. If somebody were to get stuck and you ended up staying so deep that you had a decompression obligation, that just happened. But you can’t plan that. If you look at the Navy dive tables, it changes. If you only go down 100 feet, I think you have 20 minutes.\\n\\n Nowadays we don’t use the Navy dive tables, you use dive computers. They go with you, and based on where you are right now and where you’ve been on this dive it figures out how long you can stay right where you are. Typically we’re at about 120 feet, which is about 15 minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a short amount of time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And if you have problems, you call it and the next team tries to get it done. They have the same amount of time, and hopefully based on what you got accomplished they can finish. If not, you wait till the computer says that you’re able to dive again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you do after you put in the plug? Do you come back up?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00708:60", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.24, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s variable. It depends on how deep you go. The regulations are that we can’t plan a decompression dive. If somebody were to get stuck and you ended up staying so deep that you had a decompression obligation, that just happened. But you can’t plan that. If you look at the Navy dive tables, it changes. If you only go down 100 feet, I think you have 20 minutes.\\n\\n Nowadays we don’t use the Navy dive tables, you use dive computers. They go with you, and based on where you are right now and where you’ve been on this dive it figures out how long you can stay right where you are. Typically we’re at about 120 feet, which is about 15 minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a short amount of time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And if you have problems, you call it and the next team tries to get it done. They have the same amount of time, and hopefully based on what you got accomplished they can finish. If not, you wait till the computer says that you’re able to dive again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you do after you put in the plug? Do you come back up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you need to do other work?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00708:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And if you have problems, you call it and the next team tries to get it done. They have the same amount of time, and hopefully based on what you got accomplished they can finish. If not, you wait till the computer says that you’re able to dive again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you do after you put in the plug? Do you come back up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you need to do other work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we have other work to do, but as far as the recovery goes, the last thing you do when you install the plug is put a hose to it, an air hose. The booster sits in the water and you’re pumping air into it. Water is coming out, and in about twenty minutes it starts to get vertically unstable and it ends up laying down. During that time, the divers are back on the ship. There’s one boat, a small crew, that stays out to hook up the booster to the ship for the towback. But everybody else, we’re back on deck and we’re covering the parachutes that we already recovered. We’re putting away our dive gear, we’re cleaning up the small boat, we’re cleaning up the deck. We’re separating the parachute from the frustum that we had pulled on deck earlier, just basically finishing the day out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has there ever been a time when you’ve been on one ship, and the other ship needs some assistance and you’ve gone over to help?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00497:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 41.82773827597465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I was very interested in getting down here. You know, when something changes, get on with it. So I was really the first in the group to get down here. I started working in engineering. In fact, we were packing our house the day that JFK [President Kennedy] was assassinated. The moving van was there, and we didn't even have the television connected. The neighbors came running over and said that JFK had just been shot. All the way down, driving with the kids and some household goods down to Texas, and stopping all the way, every day it was, you know, more about the assassination and Jack Ruby shooting Lee Harvey Oswald. I mean, all of that was just a blur of transition from Cambridge, Massachusetts, down to Houston, Texas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was an interesting route that you had to take through, and then you landed here and your new life began."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Totally new life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You adjusted to a completely different culture and climate and became part of the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was probably a little more challenging for the rest of the family. Being in the Air Force, I had moved around a bit. Although my wife had, too, and the kids, of course, were coming along and they don't notice those things much anyway. [Laughter] But I was not unaccustomed to moving around at that point, so it was the next place to live. At that age, you go where the opportunity is, as opposed to this age, where I live where I want to live. [Laughter] Find out how to make a living."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the program was new and the adventures were new. Tell us about some of those days of training and how you learned all there was to learn at the time. Were you helping them to learn more about the space program as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00497:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 40.63258476024419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a very good decision, you know. It was an excellent decision. We were really scheduled for the second mission, but again because of the LM 2 problems, we just kept running into problem after problem after problem in the testing and evaluating of the lunar module. Systems were just giving all kinds of problems, and integrating the systems was really havoc. So the LM kept moving to the right, and, you know, the calendar sits there and the deadline is there.\\n\\n Frank and I don't even know who all was involved in it, but certainly Frank was a heavy player in that game. He just saw a great opportunity for him to get to be the first guy around the back side of the moon, and Frank was willing to sacrifice flying the lunar module in order to be one of the first people to get around the moon, and he saw some value in terms of proving the navigation and communications capabilities by doing that, as well as the deep space capability and the reentry at high speed into the Earth with the command module.\\n\\n So Frank had enough material there to put together a good case, and in the end that was a very good decision. It simply relaxed the pressure a little bit on the Grumman team and on ourselves in trying to really push to get LM 3 ready and off the ground. So that put another mission in the middle and moved us to the third flight, and we forgot all about a second flight and Earth orbit, thank heaven. [Laughter] Who needed that?\\n\\n So I think it was great, and for us we could care less whether we moved from two to three. We kept the same mission. So it was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your crew was together for almost three years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were together for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the first time that you and Jim McDivitt and Dave Scott had a chance to meet and talk about your mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughter] A non-memorable event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that's the good point."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00497:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 45.14731640027132, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were together for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the first time that you and Jim McDivitt and Dave Scott had a chance to meet and talk about your mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughter] A non-memorable event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that's the good point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Obviously the first time was when Al Shepard announced who the crews were, and there we were as the backup crew to the first mission. So that was when we became a crew, and obviously we talked about it as soon as the meeting was over. But aside from that, there was nothing in particular. We all knew each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course you got to know each other very well over the next three years. [Laughter]"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00497:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 50.16368488919036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughter] A non-memorable event."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that's the good point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Obviously the first time was when Al Shepard announced who the crews were, and there we were as the backup crew to the first mission. So that was when we became a crew, and obviously we talked about it as soon as the meeting was over. But aside from that, there was nothing in particular. We all knew each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course you got to know each other very well over the next three years. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter] We got to know each other very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked very closely with Jim McDivitt, and of course Dave Scott was working on his effort as well. How often did the three of you come back together to work on simulations? Was that the majority of the training or did you have—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00497:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 60.81936406072884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter] We got to know each other very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked very closely with Jim McDivitt, and of course Dave Scott was working on his effort as well. How often did the three of you come back together to work on simulations? Was that the majority of the training or did you have—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean after we were named as crew?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the time, every day. We had our office together. We moved into the same office. It was eight, ten, twelve hours a day. We would all do our own things, but I doubt, except for when somebody was on a trip on one coast or the other, something like that, if we were all in Houston, we talked every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the decisions you made is the naming of your spacecraft. [Schweickart laughs.] Would you share with us the details on how that came about?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00497:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we can pick up with your—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's lots more to come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—next part of your career with NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sorry I'm so long-winded. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we've enjoyed every moment of it and look forward to the next session. So, thank you."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.037416608336454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That did not happen. We had two problems, though, in the programs based on things like that. One of them was [M. Scott] Carpenter’s mission, where he overshot the landing zone. I think that was the one where we divided by twenty-four. Anyway, we had two mistakes. But we took all constants out of the software code and put them in tables so that anybody who wanted a constant, even pi, they had to go to the tables. Any programmer that wanted it had to go to the tables and use it, so that everybody was using the same accuracy. One person wasn’t using four-digit accuracy and somebody else seven-digit accuracy. Everybody was using the same accuracy.\\n\\n The Viking [Mars lander] people came down. They heard we were good, and they looked at our system to see how we did it, and they copied our system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Let’s walk back a few steps. When you were working with Mercury, you were building a trust and, of course, building a new reputation as being very efficient. You assisted and co-authored three papers that we know of, that you helped do for technical papers. Tell us how you became involved in doing that. Do you remember those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember them. One of them was like Tracking—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "“Tracking and Sighting Data for Stations”?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They were just—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a compliment, or was it an expectation that you would have been involved with technical papers at that time? Was it something that you were looking forward to do as part of your career, or was it kind of a surprise that you were going to be working on technical papers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.486018453707171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember them. One of them was like Tracking—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "“Tracking and Sighting Data for Stations”?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They were just—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a compliment, or was it an expectation that you would have been involved with technical papers at that time? Was it something that you were looking forward to do as part of your career, or was it kind of a surprise that you were going to be working on technical papers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As hard as I worked on those documents, I wanted my name on them, but it wasn’t easy. The worst thing about documents like that, no matter who worked on them, they would put “compiled by” and there would be just one person’s name on it, or the section chief would sign them. But I worked hard enough on those documents, and I had enough of my work in them that I was very, very happy to sign them. I probably got to be third author on everything, but that’s okay. I got on them, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a time-consuming task that you did those papers, or was it information that was already available that you just helped put into a paper?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.095576059674634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They were just—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a compliment, or was it an expectation that you would have been involved with technical papers at that time? Was it something that you were looking forward to do as part of your career, or was it kind of a surprise that you were going to be working on technical papers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As hard as I worked on those documents, I wanted my name on them, but it wasn’t easy. The worst thing about documents like that, no matter who worked on them, they would put “compiled by” and there would be just one person’s name on it, or the section chief would sign them. But I worked hard enough on those documents, and I had enough of my work in them that I was very, very happy to sign them. I probably got to be third author on everything, but that’s okay. I got on them, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a time-consuming task that you did those papers, or was it information that was already available that you just helped put into a paper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were all original work. Once we did the first document, the next mission was patterned after the last document and just the data changed. But all of that was original. We didn’t have anybody's work to copy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, everybody was new."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.88397339963848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As hard as I worked on those documents, I wanted my name on them, but it wasn’t easy. The worst thing about documents like that, no matter who worked on them, they would put “compiled by” and there would be just one person’s name on it, or the section chief would sign them. But I worked hard enough on those documents, and I had enough of my work in them that I was very, very happy to sign them. I probably got to be third author on everything, but that’s okay. I got on them, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a time-consuming task that you did those papers, or was it information that was already available that you just helped put into a paper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were all original work. Once we did the first document, the next mission was patterned after the last document and just the data changed. But all of that was original. We didn’t have anybody's work to copy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, everybody was new."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did not have anybody’s work to copy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an opportunity at a later time to do other publications?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.315525999598313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were all original work. Once we did the first document, the next mission was patterned after the last document and just the data changed. But all of that was original. We didn’t have anybody's work to copy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, everybody was new."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did not have anybody’s work to copy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an opportunity at a later time to do other publications?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After every mission, I did the insertion papers. They were like memos of what the orbital insertion conditions were and what data we used to decide whether we were into orbit or not, like how many points we averaged to tell whether we were definitely into orbit or not, and all of the data from—I think we had four launch insertion sources, if I remember correctly. One was GE-Burroughs, one was Impact Predictors 7090, which they called the Azuza, and San Salvador, and Bermuda. We got data from those four sources and we compared that data for insertion. The reason we did is was so that we would know whether the data we were getting from those tracking sites were good enough to base an abort on. If not, we might not know whether we were really in orbit when we were. So we did post-flight analysis on data sources, a lot of analysis on data sources, and with different types of computations as to whether we averaged data or whether we applied short arc solutions and things like that to the data itself, just to make sure whether the transmission of the data was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there times that you could see that your work here, especially these post-flight documents, proved to save time or maybe cost or just affected the next missions down the line? Could you see the compilation of your work continually to positively affect the next missions?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.90613999955368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did not have anybody’s work to copy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an opportunity at a later time to do other publications?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After every mission, I did the insertion papers. They were like memos of what the orbital insertion conditions were and what data we used to decide whether we were into orbit or not, like how many points we averaged to tell whether we were definitely into orbit or not, and all of the data from—I think we had four launch insertion sources, if I remember correctly. One was GE-Burroughs, one was Impact Predictors 7090, which they called the Azuza, and San Salvador, and Bermuda. We got data from those four sources and we compared that data for insertion. The reason we did is was so that we would know whether the data we were getting from those tracking sites were good enough to base an abort on. If not, we might not know whether we were really in orbit when we were. So we did post-flight analysis on data sources, a lot of analysis on data sources, and with different types of computations as to whether we averaged data or whether we applied short arc solutions and things like that to the data itself, just to make sure whether the transmission of the data was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there times that you could see that your work here, especially these post-flight documents, proved to save time or maybe cost or just affected the next missions down the line? Could you see the compilation of your work continually to positively affect the next missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it did, and it made us better. Every mission made us better the next mission. If we had not done that, we would not have known whether what we were doing was right or wrong. So every time we did these post-flights reports, we did the next mission better because of having done that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked on landing site prediction, is that correct?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.673488888392978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After every mission, I did the insertion papers. They were like memos of what the orbital insertion conditions were and what data we used to decide whether we were into orbit or not, like how many points we averaged to tell whether we were definitely into orbit or not, and all of the data from—I think we had four launch insertion sources, if I remember correctly. One was GE-Burroughs, one was Impact Predictors 7090, which they called the Azuza, and San Salvador, and Bermuda. We got data from those four sources and we compared that data for insertion. The reason we did is was so that we would know whether the data we were getting from those tracking sites were good enough to base an abort on. If not, we might not know whether we were really in orbit when we were. So we did post-flight analysis on data sources, a lot of analysis on data sources, and with different types of computations as to whether we averaged data or whether we applied short arc solutions and things like that to the data itself, just to make sure whether the transmission of the data was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there times that you could see that your work here, especially these post-flight documents, proved to save time or maybe cost or just affected the next missions down the line? Could you see the compilation of your work continually to positively affect the next missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it did, and it made us better. Every mission made us better the next mission. If we had not done that, we would not have known whether what we were doing was right or wrong. So every time we did these post-flights reports, we did the next mission better because of having done that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked on landing site prediction, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the launch abort type."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something regarding radar look angle."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.526098764881084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it did, and it made us better. Every mission made us better the next mission. If we had not done that, we would not have known whether what we were doing was right or wrong. So every time we did these post-flights reports, we did the next mission better because of having done that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked on landing site prediction, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the launch abort type."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something regarding radar look angle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That term? That was what I was talking about, the San Salvador and the Bermuda. That was the radar looking at the spacecraft. So those post-flight reports is taking that data and analyzing it after the missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was in Mercury. Did you continue this effort as Mercury moved into Gemini and then on to Apollo?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.584554183201202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the launch abort type."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something regarding radar look angle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That term? That was what I was talking about, the San Salvador and the Bermuda. That was the radar looking at the spacecraft. So those post-flight reports is taking that data and analyzing it after the missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was in Mercury. Did you continue this effort as Mercury moved into Gemini and then on to Apollo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t have to after Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it evolve? Did you find this work then be applied to the other programs as well, or this was finished and so you started on a whole different process of doing things for Apollo, as far as your new duties, as Apollo progressed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 21.760615759112447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That term? That was what I was talking about, the San Salvador and the Bermuda. That was the radar looking at the spacecraft. So those post-flight reports is taking that data and analyzing it after the missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was in Mercury. Did you continue this effort as Mercury moved into Gemini and then on to Apollo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t have to after Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it evolve? Did you find this work then be applied to the other programs as well, or this was finished and so you started on a whole different process of doing things for Apollo, as far as your new duties, as Apollo progressed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did the same thing. I did the launch requirements and the launch abort requirements, but the Gemini was so different from the Saturn that it was just a totally different program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that affect your work? The time is changing, the spacecraft was changing. But are you finding that your tools were changing to help you do this as well, with the computer starting to evolve along with the spacecraft, to help provide you support you need?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.289573065680496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t have to after Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it evolve? Did you find this work then be applied to the other programs as well, or this was finished and so you started on a whole different process of doing things for Apollo, as far as your new duties, as Apollo progressed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did the same thing. I did the launch requirements and the launch abort requirements, but the Gemini was so different from the Saturn that it was just a totally different program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that affect your work? The time is changing, the spacecraft was changing. But are you finding that your tools were changing to help you do this as well, with the computer starting to evolve along with the spacecraft, to help provide you support you need?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If we hadn’t had Apollo, we’d still be back ten years. You wouldn’t have a desktop probably now. Apollo drove the computers in the United States, as far as I’m concerned. If we had not had the Project Apollo, we would not have had computers for at least ten years. We would have had them eventually.\\n\\n From way down looking up, there were two people that I can say that helped us get the computers that we went to the Moon with, and that was Dick Hanrahan [phonetic] and Lyn Dunseith. Dick Hanrahan worked for IBM, and he was Bednarcyk’s boss. But they were little brains just working all the time, and they knew we had to have something better than we had had. Of course, IBM was always at that time these big number generators. But I think knowing what our requirements would be to go to the Moon helped develop the computers. We could not done as many computations as we did. We couldn’t have gone if the computers had not been getting better and better. We could not have had the requirements to get more detailed as they were and as many as they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you walk us through the evolution of the computers that you’ve worked with? You said you started out with paper and pencil, and, I guess, an eraser on occasion."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.229867031111787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had Freidan calculators, and then I had a Bendix G15, which was a single instruction. From there we went to the IBM 1620, which was a low-decimal machine, and we had a Flexiwriter paper tape input, and if you missed one key, you had to start over again because it had little holes in the paper. I have taken a pen and corrected the paper tape to get it to read so we wouldn’t have to do the whole program over again. They were basically the only computers that I programmed for, because once we got to Gemini—well, that’s not true either. I programmed for the 7094 a little bit when we got into Houston. But basically we hired IBM as our software programmers for Gemini and Apollo, and all we did was we looked at the code. This wasn’t like you don’t see the code. We did flow charts and we did code and NASA got to see the code, where I’m sure now no one ever sees the code. We did have people who could correct the code in hexadecimal. There were a couple of people that were that good. So it was basically just the capacity, and, now your desktop calculator computer has much more power really than the computers we used to go to Moon with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a time where the technology was coming up quickly and your requirements were still needed as quickly as they had been, where you were having to learn the new technology and still do your job and meet all these deadlines at the same time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always. But it was no problem. It just evolved. If there was a problem, we weren’t smart enough to know it was a problem, or dumb enough, as the case may be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just adapted to the moment, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine that it—because sometimes if you’re on one system but yet the new system has to be implemented, but yet you still have to get your work done, it must have been a little challenging at times to have that happen."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 19.14429670123532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always. But it was no problem. It just evolved. If there was a problem, we weren’t smart enough to know it was a problem, or dumb enough, as the case may be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just adapted to the moment, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine that it—because sometimes if you’re on one system but yet the new system has to be implemented, but yet you still have to get your work done, it must have been a little challenging at times to have that happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were very fortunate that throughout Apollo we were able to keep the same contractor without going out on bid. The government does itself an injustice by trying to change. We were very fortunate that we were able to keep IBM and IBM computers, as far as all of the software requirements go, and the programmers and everything, because a lot of the programs that were used, if you just move it from one computer to the other and that you had the same operating system and same programmers, and we wrote our own operating systems at that time, and we had a whole section that had operating system requirements. So we were fortunate in that we did not have to go out on open bid to replace our coders. That made a lot of difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The people that you dealt with IBM, you felt that they were very supportive of the NASA goals and the country’s goals as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.03058532405393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure did. The hardware people started out as Philco Ford. I don't know who they are, I guess they’re Lockheed now. We kept the same contractors. They changed names, but we kept the same contractors for the hardware and the software from Gemini through early Shuttle, and that really made a difference. I think if we had to go out on open bid and got a different contractor every two years, we’d have never made it. No way. I think they’ve just put out a consolidation contract. We tried that in the early eighties, an awful, awful lot of work, and it basically went down the drain, because as soon as they came on board and they were supposed to be a fixed-price, \"Here's your job. Do it,\" NASA wouldn’t let them do it. So it was not good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the rapport with the IBM folks on a one-to-one basis with you? Were you their supervisor? Were you the one that checked off to make sure they had gotten their job done correctly, or were you mostly kind of their peer, where you worked very closely with them to tell them what you needed and they gave it back to you? Explain that whole relationship to us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Gemini and Apollo, I was basically equal to the programmers. I gave them the requirements. I would sign off on all of the systems tests and subsystems tests as far as launch and launch abort goes. But later in my career, I was a section chief, so I was their boss basically. But I did have to sign off on all of the subsystems tests for the launch and launch abort systems for Gemini and Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were all the programmers IBM employees, or were there NASA and IBM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were all IBM employees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they housed at NASA?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.81176147117103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Gemini and Apollo, I was basically equal to the programmers. I gave them the requirements. I would sign off on all of the systems tests and subsystems tests as far as launch and launch abort goes. But later in my career, I was a section chief, so I was their boss basically. But I did have to sign off on all of the subsystems tests for the launch and launch abort systems for Gemini and Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were all the programmers IBM employees, or were there NASA and IBM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were all IBM employees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they housed at NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were housed across the street at the IBM Building. I don’t know what building it is now, but it was across in Nassau Bay. We had couriers that carried decks of cards back and forth because we compiled all the programs with decks of cards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad you mentioned that, because so many people now who work with computers don’t realize that. So maybe you can give a little background on those cards worked and how many hands that those cards went back and forth to, to give us some background on that whole system."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.790846079078925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were all IBM employees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they housed at NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were housed across the street at the IBM Building. I don’t know what building it is now, but it was across in Nassau Bay. We had couriers that carried decks of cards back and forth because we compiled all the programs with decks of cards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad you mentioned that, because so many people now who work with computers don’t realize that. So maybe you can give a little background on those cards worked and how many hands that those cards went back and forth to, to give us some background on that whole system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I said, we had couriers hired, and they would bring these big boxes of cards over, and they have been dropped. Of course, they had a sequence number on them, and some people would have to put them back in sequence. Everything would be recompiled if you made a change. It wasn’t like if you made a change now like you do in a PC. You had to punch a card, recompile the program, and rerun it. So it was time-consuming, very time-consuming compared to the way you input data today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were only so many computers with only so much computer time. How did everybody who needed time on those computers get time to do their job to get the results that were needed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.433143307504846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I said, we had couriers hired, and they would bring these big boxes of cards over, and they have been dropped. Of course, they had a sequence number on them, and some people would have to put them back in sequence. Everything would be recompiled if you made a change. It wasn’t like if you made a change now like you do in a PC. You had to punch a card, recompile the program, and rerun it. So it was time-consuming, very time-consuming compared to the way you input data today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were only so many computers with only so much computer time. How did everybody who needed time on those computers get time to do their job to get the results that were needed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a meeting once or twice a week, and you had a form to say, “I need X number of hours to run a certain program,\" and you were scheduled, and twenty-four hours a day we ran the computers. Well, most of the time we ran them twenty-four hours a day. Sometimes we started not running them but two shifts later in the program. But we ran them twenty-four hours a day, and you could schedule on every computer but one. That was an earth resources computer, and that did not have programs. But you could load any program on any machine. That may not be exactly true, but for the most part, any machine could run any program. It was manually scheduled, everybody with their little block of time. Then it was put up on the bulletin board over in the control center, and you’d go find out when your time was, and you’d better show up, because if you were a no-show more than once or twice, you didn’t get any computer time anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get bumped?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we would get bumped. Flight control could bump us any time they wanted to, if they decided they wanted to have sims [simulations] or if anybody wanted to go in and practice, they could bump us a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were all the computers housed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 27.14793700833872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a meeting once or twice a week, and you had a form to say, “I need X number of hours to run a certain program,\" and you were scheduled, and twenty-four hours a day we ran the computers. Well, most of the time we ran them twenty-four hours a day. Sometimes we started not running them but two shifts later in the program. But we ran them twenty-four hours a day, and you could schedule on every computer but one. That was an earth resources computer, and that did not have programs. But you could load any program on any machine. That may not be exactly true, but for the most part, any machine could run any program. It was manually scheduled, everybody with their little block of time. Then it was put up on the bulletin board over in the control center, and you’d go find out when your time was, and you’d better show up, because if you were a no-show more than once or twice, you didn’t get any computer time anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get bumped?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we would get bumped. Flight control could bump us any time they wanted to, if they decided they wanted to have sims [simulations] or if anybody wanted to go in and practice, they could bump us a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were all the computers housed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were in Building 30. All the flight controllers were in Building 30. All the flight support people were in Building 30, and all the mission planning and analysis people were in Building 30. Beautiful situation. That’s the way it should be, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Clearly it worked."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.08071768890067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m talking about when I was doing the costs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go on from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From there I applied for and got a section chief position for the control center software, so I was section chief for about three years. My division chief at that time said, “I need help over in simulation. I think I’ll send you over to simulation and let you be a section chief over there.”\\n\\n I said, “I don’t even know how to spell simulation,” because I had never worked there or anything.\\n\\n He said, “It doesn’t matter. We need you over there.”\\n\\n So I went over to Building 35, knowing this, and to a section that felt like they didn’t belong on site, I think. They didn’t even get [the Johnson Space Center] Space [News] Roundups in that building. Nobody had ever said we’re not getting them and nobody ever knew or anything. But I went over there and stayed over there and stirred up the pot and learned how to spell simulation before it was over. Had some great guys working over there, really did. They’re spread out through JSC now, and I’m sure are doing great jobs. But that was quite an experience to go there when I didn’t know anything. I told them. I said, “I don’t know a thing. You’ll have to teach me,\" and they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure it didn’t take you long to learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I never did learn it all. You don’t learn it all in simulation if you live there forever, but I did learn a lot and I think I helped a lot.\\n\\n From there I went to two source boards: the Control Center Source Board and the Simulation Source Board. I stayed there for almost a year for those two source boards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, that was a different type of a job. Would you like to explain to us what your duties were as a source board member?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.556441591235394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I never did learn it all. You don’t learn it all in simulation if you live there forever, but I did learn a lot and I think I helped a lot.\\n\\n From there I went to two source boards: the Control Center Source Board and the Simulation Source Board. I stayed there for almost a year for those two source boards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, that was a different type of a job. Would you like to explain to us what your duties were as a source board member?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did most of the evaluating the cost proposals. That was fun and hard. That was probably one of the hardest jobs I had, in that all the people who bid would bid differently. You could tell them to come with a bid costing a certain way in the proposal, and they’d come in with their own costing. Everybody has a different definition of what a manager is, or what an assistant manager is, and they would cost them at different levels and everything. So to get all of that for all of the proposals on the same plane was a very difficult job, but fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you made some order out of chaos at times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you had to end up with them all on the same plane, so you had to change them to where they would all be the same so you could compare apples and apples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And from there, did you move on to yet another position?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.951601768039325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did most of the evaluating the cost proposals. That was fun and hard. That was probably one of the hardest jobs I had, in that all the people who bid would bid differently. You could tell them to come with a bid costing a certain way in the proposal, and they’d come in with their own costing. Everybody has a different definition of what a manager is, or what an assistant manager is, and they would cost them at different levels and everything. So to get all of that for all of the proposals on the same plane was a very difficult job, but fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you made some order out of chaos at times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you had to end up with them all on the same plane, so you had to change them to where they would all be the same so you could compare apples and apples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And from there, did you move on to yet another position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was another section chief. I moved back into section chief back into the control center section chief area, and stayed there until that branch was abolished. Then I went into the ground software development environment, which was a fairly new environment. It was developing the tools for all of the Space Station software development, which had planned to do software development with tools instead of people and requirements. Basically it was building the software support environment. There we had just that little area. There were two of us doing that, and we had about a little over a million dollars a year to spend in that area. So that was interesting and challenging, because that was in the new era of computing and Internet and really getting automated to develop software rather than doing it manually, the way we had done it before. That was where I was when I retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you can literally say that as far as computers were concerned, you had done it all."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.612890853377028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you had to end up with them all on the same plane, so you had to change them to where they would all be the same so you could compare apples and apples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And from there, did you move on to yet another position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was another section chief. I moved back into section chief back into the control center section chief area, and stayed there until that branch was abolished. Then I went into the ground software development environment, which was a fairly new environment. It was developing the tools for all of the Space Station software development, which had planned to do software development with tools instead of people and requirements. Basically it was building the software support environment. There we had just that little area. There were two of us doing that, and we had about a little over a million dollars a year to spend in that area. So that was interesting and challenging, because that was in the new era of computing and Internet and really getting automated to develop software rather than doing it manually, the way we had done it before. That was where I was when I retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you can literally say that as far as computers were concerned, you had done it all."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had done it all, from a little Freidan calculator to something much smaller than the Freidan calculator doing more than the computers were when we were going to the Moon. But it was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a time during that period of evaluation that you found to be the most challenging and rewarding at the same time, of having to turn theory and hopes into something that was reality and a success?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 28.458767614863365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was another section chief. I moved back into section chief back into the control center section chief area, and stayed there until that branch was abolished. Then I went into the ground software development environment, which was a fairly new environment. It was developing the tools for all of the Space Station software development, which had planned to do software development with tools instead of people and requirements. Basically it was building the software support environment. There we had just that little area. There were two of us doing that, and we had about a little over a million dollars a year to spend in that area. So that was interesting and challenging, because that was in the new era of computing and Internet and really getting automated to develop software rather than doing it manually, the way we had done it before. That was where I was when I retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you can literally say that as far as computers were concerned, you had done it all."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had done it all, from a little Freidan calculator to something much smaller than the Freidan calculator doing more than the computers were when we were going to the Moon. But it was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a time during that period of evaluation that you found to be the most challenging and rewarding at the same time, of having to turn theory and hopes into something that was reality and a success?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess there were three areas maybe that I thought were really challenging and good. One of them was really the launch program requirements, working so closely with the FIDOs, the Retros, and the Guidance Officers. That was a great time. It really was. Everybody was doing something brand-new, and you’d do it, and you’d look at it and say, “Ooh, that’s good” or “Ooh, I want to change it.”\\n\\n Then the part that I played with the constants and systems parameters in the Apollo time frame. I did that, too, in Gemini, but Gemini didn’t have as many as Apollo. Then the engineering orders and the handle that we got on the costs of the control center was very good. I enjoyed that a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three very different aspects of it all."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.017308786105602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In that division, yes, but not on the site. There had been a lot of others on the site. When I first went to Houston, there were eight or ten people that they featured in the paper down there, of \"These women make over $10,000 a year.\" [Laughter] I had a lot of firsts, and I enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s hear some of those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was first to go on travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you behaved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I behaved. I got two trips to New York City for the IBM 1620 computer having some internal problems where it was not compiling our program so that we got the answers that we thought we should get. When I started flying for NASA like that, I wore high heels and hats and gloves, believe it or not. I went to Headquarters one time on travel. I think most of the things that I did first was to get to travel and go down for the post-flight reports for the Cape, got to see most of the launches. In 1983, I got a Manned Flight Awareness Award and got to go see a Shuttle flight. After you leave, there will be billions of things I can think of to tell you, and you won’t be here. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ll have to list them for us later.\\n\\n The launches were pretty spectacular all the way through NASA’s history, and you certainly saw many from each program."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.463676429006224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was first to go on travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you behaved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I behaved. I got two trips to New York City for the IBM 1620 computer having some internal problems where it was not compiling our program so that we got the answers that we thought we should get. When I started flying for NASA like that, I wore high heels and hats and gloves, believe it or not. I went to Headquarters one time on travel. I think most of the things that I did first was to get to travel and go down for the post-flight reports for the Cape, got to see most of the launches. In 1983, I got a Manned Flight Awareness Award and got to go see a Shuttle flight. After you leave, there will be billions of things I can think of to tell you, and you won’t be here. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ll have to list them for us later.\\n\\n The launches were pretty spectacular all the way through NASA’s history, and you certainly saw many from each program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I saw everything except the Saturn IB."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like to see what you had done on paper turn into reality for everyone to watch? Because you had a part of what was going on."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.959640476673582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I behaved. I got two trips to New York City for the IBM 1620 computer having some internal problems where it was not compiling our program so that we got the answers that we thought we should get. When I started flying for NASA like that, I wore high heels and hats and gloves, believe it or not. I went to Headquarters one time on travel. I think most of the things that I did first was to get to travel and go down for the post-flight reports for the Cape, got to see most of the launches. In 1983, I got a Manned Flight Awareness Award and got to go see a Shuttle flight. After you leave, there will be billions of things I can think of to tell you, and you won’t be here. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ll have to list them for us later.\\n\\n The launches were pretty spectacular all the way through NASA’s history, and you certainly saw many from each program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I saw everything except the Saturn IB."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like to see what you had done on paper turn into reality for everyone to watch? Because you had a part of what was going on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Awesome. It really was. It was just indescribable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The people that were around you, they were all part of different teams that had come together, pretty much individuals like you that were putting their talents together to make that happen. Then yet when the launch was over, everybody went back to prepare for the next time. Was there ever a start and finish, or was it just one continual trip from the day that you started on your road?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.510711640748424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I saw everything except the Saturn IB."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like to see what you had done on paper turn into reality for everyone to watch? Because you had a part of what was going on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Awesome. It really was. It was just indescribable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The people that were around you, they were all part of different teams that had come together, pretty much individuals like you that were putting their talents together to make that happen. Then yet when the launch was over, everybody went back to prepare for the next time. Was there ever a start and finish, or was it just one continual trip from the day that you started on your road?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was never a stop and finish. Everything was always overlapping. In fact, sometimes we were working two or three missions at the same time. You’d just to start over, take your mind off one and start on another. But for things like Mercury, they were basically all the same. You were going around the Earth with basically the inclination, and you could work on two or three things at one time and not have to reset. But once you got into the Shuttle, you had to reset based on what payloads were going and things like that. Everything was always overlapping. You never finished a job and started another one. You were always working on one and starting another one at the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a talent in itself, keeping it all straight, but yet, as you said, overlapping. You were promoted to a full engineer during the Gemini Program, which at the time that NASA began, there weren’t many, if hardly a few, women engineers. Can you tell us how that promotion occurred, and what was the result of that? How did that affect the rest of your career, being moved into more of a technical position? Because you were a math aide."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.123012934164915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Awesome. It really was. It was just indescribable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The people that were around you, they were all part of different teams that had come together, pretty much individuals like you that were putting their talents together to make that happen. Then yet when the launch was over, everybody went back to prepare for the next time. Was there ever a start and finish, or was it just one continual trip from the day that you started on your road?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was never a stop and finish. Everything was always overlapping. In fact, sometimes we were working two or three missions at the same time. You’d just to start over, take your mind off one and start on another. But for things like Mercury, they were basically all the same. You were going around the Earth with basically the inclination, and you could work on two or three things at one time and not have to reset. But once you got into the Shuttle, you had to reset based on what payloads were going and things like that. Everything was always overlapping. You never finished a job and started another one. You were always working on one and starting another one at the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite a talent in itself, keeping it all straight, but yet, as you said, overlapping. You were promoted to a full engineer during the Gemini Program, which at the time that NASA began, there weren’t many, if hardly a few, women engineers. Can you tell us how that promotion occurred, and what was the result of that? How did that affect the rest of your career, being moved into more of a technical position? Because you were a math aide."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was never a math aide."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were hired into NASA as an engineer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.559275227364093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was never a math aide."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were hired into NASA as an engineer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was hired in, I think they called us—there weren’t ASTs [aerospace technicians] at the time I hired in. Numerical analysis engineer, I think, is what I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was never a math aide."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, that clears that up then. Then you went from the numerical engineer. Did it change from a different status of an engineer at some point?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.399194697071215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was hired in, I think they called us—there weren’t ASTs [aerospace technicians] at the time I hired in. Numerical analysis engineer, I think, is what I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was never a math aide."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, that clears that up then. Then you went from the numerical engineer. Did it change from a different status of an engineer at some point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at one point they changed our classifications to aerospace technologists. Then they gave our classification, and they did that so that we wouldn’t be equal to civil service titles, so they could give—I think this is the reason they did it—so they could give NASA a higher grade rating than they did civil service people in other agencies. I think that’s why it happened. You may want to cut that. [Laughter] They did give NASA different classifications than they did other government agencies. But I had my master’s in math when I went to work, and I did work very closely with the trajectory-type work rather than just a math aide-type work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, I’m glad we have that straightened out because I think some of our earlier research wasn’t clear on what we were able to find. So that does that.\\n\\n Missions. Any particular that you found to be more challenging than others as they were building from one program to another? You said that Mercury kind of went round and round, but then, of course, in Gemini you had two men, and you were having to make modifications here and there."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.221327441190239, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was never a math aide."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, that clears that up then. Then you went from the numerical engineer. Did it change from a different status of an engineer at some point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at one point they changed our classifications to aerospace technologists. Then they gave our classification, and they did that so that we wouldn’t be equal to civil service titles, so they could give—I think this is the reason they did it—so they could give NASA a higher grade rating than they did civil service people in other agencies. I think that’s why it happened. You may want to cut that. [Laughter] They did give NASA different classifications than they did other government agencies. But I had my master’s in math when I went to work, and I did work very closely with the trajectory-type work rather than just a math aide-type work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, I’m glad we have that straightened out because I think some of our earlier research wasn’t clear on what we were able to find. So that does that.\\n\\n Missions. Any particular that you found to be more challenging than others as they were building from one program to another? You said that Mercury kind of went round and round, but then, of course, in Gemini you had two men, and you were having to make modifications here and there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess Gemini VI was our real Gemini challenge, getting ready for another launch so soon afterwards and basically doing two missions and all of the constants and parameters and everything for two at the same time. That was probably the hardest one we did. Worked hard on that. That was a challenge in every respect for everybody, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you moved into Apollo, so much was going so quickly in order to meet the mandate from President [John F.] Kennedy. Apollo 8 all of a sudden now was going to put men closer to the Moon than we had ever been before. Were you involved in that as well?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.134808267989154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at one point they changed our classifications to aerospace technologists. Then they gave our classification, and they did that so that we wouldn’t be equal to civil service titles, so they could give—I think this is the reason they did it—so they could give NASA a higher grade rating than they did civil service people in other agencies. I think that’s why it happened. You may want to cut that. [Laughter] They did give NASA different classifications than they did other government agencies. But I had my master’s in math when I went to work, and I did work very closely with the trajectory-type work rather than just a math aide-type work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, I’m glad we have that straightened out because I think some of our earlier research wasn’t clear on what we were able to find. So that does that.\\n\\n Missions. Any particular that you found to be more challenging than others as they were building from one program to another? You said that Mercury kind of went round and round, but then, of course, in Gemini you had two men, and you were having to make modifications here and there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess Gemini VI was our real Gemini challenge, getting ready for another launch so soon afterwards and basically doing two missions and all of the constants and parameters and everything for two at the same time. That was probably the hardest one we did. Worked hard on that. That was a challenge in every respect for everybody, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you moved into Apollo, so much was going so quickly in order to meet the mandate from President [John F.] Kennedy. Apollo 8 all of a sudden now was going to put men closer to the Moon than we had ever been before. Were you involved in that as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We just worked longer hours, harder and longer hours. If the same number of people did the same job, but we had to work more hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts when you heard that all of a sudden we were moving that few steps closer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.302100698047788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked. It worked. It did work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had goals. I mean, so—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it worked out.\\n\\n Speaking of goals, one of the major goals at that time was to put a man on the Moon and to return him safely to Earth. Tell us about your part in that. Where were you when that all happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was doing launch and launch abort program requirements and the system parameters and the constants for the whole mission, for every phase of the program, for the launch, the launch aborts, the orbits, the rendezvous and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just doing your regular job."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.002334108941986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it worked out.\\n\\n Speaking of goals, one of the major goals at that time was to put a man on the Moon and to return him safely to Earth. Tell us about your part in that. Where were you when that all happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was doing launch and launch abort program requirements and the system parameters and the constants for the whole mission, for every phase of the program, for the launch, the launch aborts, the orbits, the rendezvous and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just doing your regular job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just doing my regular job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on site when they landed? In mission control, the room?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.780371232157762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was doing launch and launch abort program requirements and the system parameters and the constants for the whole mission, for every phase of the program, for the launch, the launch aborts, the orbits, the rendezvous and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just doing your regular job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just doing my regular job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on site when they landed? In mission control, the room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was always in the control center for the launches, because that was my program. I wanted to see how it worked and everything. Then, of course, I always had to do the reports, the launch reports right afterwards. So I would stay there and gather the data and do my little post-flight analysis for the data. But I was not ever in the control center during a mission, per se. Sometimes they called me and asked me about specific things about the programs, but I was never a pure flight controller."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you mentioned before, that was something that you really didn’t want to move into, or did you have desires to move into as a flight controller?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.311523591286402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just doing my regular job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on site when they landed? In mission control, the room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was always in the control center for the launches, because that was my program. I wanted to see how it worked and everything. Then, of course, I always had to do the reports, the launch reports right afterwards. So I would stay there and gather the data and do my little post-flight analysis for the data. But I was not ever in the control center during a mission, per se. Sometimes they called me and asked me about specific things about the programs, but I was never a pure flight controller."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you mentioned before, that was something that you really didn’t want to move into, or did you have desires to move into as a flight controller?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sort of wanted to, but I didn’t want to be that tied down, I guess. Not tied down. The best way is, Gene Kranz would have owned me. [Laughter] I mean, he would have owned me. Greatest man to work for. He inspired me. He asked me to do a job for him, I had never done that job before in my life, and I learned it in two and half days and started doing it for him. He could make anybody produce 140 percent. Everybody wanted to work him. You wanted to do the best job in the world for him. I had several bosses like that, but Gene was really—I don’t know what he had. I can’t put my finger on it, but whatever you did for Gene Kranz, you wanted to do the best in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So many people who know nothing about the space industry know him, of course, from the movie Apollo 13 and how he was so instrumental in saving Apollo 13. Did you have a role in that mission as well that was different? Did you have anything extra to do as part of that?\\n\\n Shirley"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.901692879207113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was always in the control center for the launches, because that was my program. I wanted to see how it worked and everything. Then, of course, I always had to do the reports, the launch reports right afterwards. So I would stay there and gather the data and do my little post-flight analysis for the data. But I was not ever in the control center during a mission, per se. Sometimes they called me and asked me about specific things about the programs, but I was never a pure flight controller."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you mentioned before, that was something that you really didn’t want to move into, or did you have desires to move into as a flight controller?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sort of wanted to, but I didn’t want to be that tied down, I guess. Not tied down. The best way is, Gene Kranz would have owned me. [Laughter] I mean, he would have owned me. Greatest man to work for. He inspired me. He asked me to do a job for him, I had never done that job before in my life, and I learned it in two and half days and started doing it for him. He could make anybody produce 140 percent. Everybody wanted to work him. You wanted to do the best job in the world for him. I had several bosses like that, but Gene was really—I don’t know what he had. I can’t put my finger on it, but whatever you did for Gene Kranz, you wanted to do the best in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So many people who know nothing about the space industry know him, of course, from the movie Apollo 13 and how he was so instrumental in saving Apollo 13. Did you have a role in that mission as well that was different? Did you have anything extra to do as part of that?\\n\\n Shirley"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just sit and wait like everybody else to make sure that they go in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.557436532452348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sort of wanted to, but I didn’t want to be that tied down, I guess. Not tied down. The best way is, Gene Kranz would have owned me. [Laughter] I mean, he would have owned me. Greatest man to work for. He inspired me. He asked me to do a job for him, I had never done that job before in my life, and I learned it in two and half days and started doing it for him. He could make anybody produce 140 percent. Everybody wanted to work him. You wanted to do the best job in the world for him. I had several bosses like that, but Gene was really—I don’t know what he had. I can’t put my finger on it, but whatever you did for Gene Kranz, you wanted to do the best in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So many people who know nothing about the space industry know him, of course, from the movie Apollo 13 and how he was so instrumental in saving Apollo 13. Did you have a role in that mission as well that was different? Did you have anything extra to do as part of that?\\n\\n Shirley"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just sit and wait like everybody else to make sure that they go in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We gave them the best programs in the world and let them take control of operations. We did a good job, I think, on providing flight control good hardware and software. They did a great job on using that hardware and software to operate the missions, but I was always in the support role."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the Skylab came, and you mentioned that you put a nine-month stint, probably something very different than you had ever done before."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.711685006024001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You didn’t get any of the teleprinter messages? I don’t know where they stored those, but some of those messages were great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to look for them. Is there an example that we should look for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of the Christmas messages. They were cute. Some of them were cute and some of them weren’t. Very innovative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That will give us a challenge. We’ll have to look for those and see what we can find.\\n\\n Shirley"}, {"role": "user", "content": "See if you can find any of the teleprinter messages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We'll do that. The last program with Apollo was the joint effort that was done with the Russians. Were you involved at all with ASTP [Apollo-Soyuz Test Project]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.3463166733600005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of the Christmas messages. They were cute. Some of them were cute and some of them weren’t. Very innovative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That will give us a challenge. We’ll have to look for those and see what we can find.\\n\\n Shirley"}, {"role": "user", "content": "See if you can find any of the teleprinter messages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We'll do that. The last program with Apollo was the joint effort that was done with the Russians. Were you involved at all with ASTP [Apollo-Soyuz Test Project]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Same capacity?\\n\\n Shirley"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.0514629704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See if you can find any of the teleprinter messages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We'll do that. The last program with Apollo was the joint effort that was done with the Russians. Were you involved at all with ASTP [Apollo-Soyuz Test Project]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Same capacity?\\n\\n Shirley"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the same capacity as the other missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to do anything different because you were working with the Russian spacecraft?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.834958856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Same capacity?\\n\\n Shirley"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the same capacity as the other missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to do anything different because you were working with the Russian spacecraft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was doing launch and launch abort. I wasn't doing rendezvous and docking and that. So the only thing I had to do for that was to make sure I got that set of system parameters in the program correctly. I just say I did the constants and system parameters, but that was a very important job because that had to be accurate, and you had to take somebody who cared and played tennis almost, proofreading. There was a lot of proofreading in that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And lots of pages of information, isn’t it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.70550984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the same capacity as the other missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to do anything different because you were working with the Russian spacecraft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was doing launch and launch abort. I wasn't doing rendezvous and docking and that. So the only thing I had to do for that was to make sure I got that set of system parameters in the program correctly. I just say I did the constants and system parameters, but that was a very important job because that had to be accurate, and you had to take somebody who cared and played tennis almost, proofreading. There was a lot of proofreading in that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And lots of pages of information, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lots of pages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you passed that on, after you knew it was accurate and it was ready for someone else to review, what could you possibly tell them in a synopsis, or was their responsibility to take all that information and—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.5616776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was doing launch and launch abort. I wasn't doing rendezvous and docking and that. So the only thing I had to do for that was to make sure I got that set of system parameters in the program correctly. I just say I did the constants and system parameters, but that was a very important job because that had to be accurate, and you had to take somebody who cared and played tennis almost, proofreading. There was a lot of proofreading in that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And lots of pages of information, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lots of pages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you passed that on, after you knew it was accurate and it was ready for someone else to review, what could you possibly tell them in a synopsis, or was their responsibility to take all that information and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I gave them the exact cell in the program, the exact name of the system parameter, the exact value, and a verbal explanation of what the numbers were. Then when they gave it back to me to make sure it was correct, they gave it back to me with the same name on that parameter. Every system parameter had a name, and every letter in the name meant something. Like M, mission program number, it was six letters, and every one of those letters meant something. It had to go into exactly the same place in the program so that when somebody came and got that system parameter, they called it the same thing every time they went after it. I sat there and proofread those things. That was the only way to make sure they were correct. Some of them were fifteen digits long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hours of your time."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.401864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lots of pages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you passed that on, after you knew it was accurate and it was ready for someone else to review, what could you possibly tell them in a synopsis, or was their responsibility to take all that information and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I gave them the exact cell in the program, the exact name of the system parameter, the exact value, and a verbal explanation of what the numbers were. Then when they gave it back to me to make sure it was correct, they gave it back to me with the same name on that parameter. Every system parameter had a name, and every letter in the name meant something. Like M, mission program number, it was six letters, and every one of those letters meant something. It had to go into exactly the same place in the program so that when somebody came and got that system parameter, they called it the same thing every time they went after it. I sat there and proofread those things. That was the only way to make sure they were correct. Some of them were fifteen digits long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hours of your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hours, hours, hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring your work home and review, or did you stay on site and go through—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.890960000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I gave them the exact cell in the program, the exact name of the system parameter, the exact value, and a verbal explanation of what the numbers were. Then when they gave it back to me to make sure it was correct, they gave it back to me with the same name on that parameter. Every system parameter had a name, and every letter in the name meant something. Like M, mission program number, it was six letters, and every one of those letters meant something. It had to go into exactly the same place in the program so that when somebody came and got that system parameter, they called it the same thing every time they went after it. I sat there and proofread those things. That was the only way to make sure they were correct. Some of them were fifteen digits long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hours of your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hours, hours, hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring your work home and review, or did you stay on site and go through—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kirby and I both did a lot of work at home. Something like that you could bring it home and proofread it at home.\\n\\n Speaking of working at home, we had some DoD [Department of Defense] joint missions at one time. The guy who was in charge of DoD died, and nobody, nobody did his work. When we came, this was when I was doing the engineering orders and the costs control of the control center, nobody knew what his budget was last time versus what it should be this time, to deal with DoD. I probably worked about three nights until 4 a.m. in the morning getting ready for that program operating plan, based on what he had last time versus what he needed this time. That was a very difficult task, to do things like that without the person there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a challenge, no matter what you picked up. [Laughter]"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.4344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hours, hours, hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring your work home and review, or did you stay on site and go through—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kirby and I both did a lot of work at home. Something like that you could bring it home and proofread it at home.\\n\\n Speaking of working at home, we had some DoD [Department of Defense] joint missions at one time. The guy who was in charge of DoD died, and nobody, nobody did his work. When we came, this was when I was doing the engineering orders and the costs control of the control center, nobody knew what his budget was last time versus what it should be this time, to deal with DoD. I probably worked about three nights until 4 a.m. in the morning getting ready for that program operating plan, based on what he had last time versus what he needed this time. That was a very difficult task, to do things like that without the person there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a challenge, no matter what you picked up. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Program operating plans were certainly a challenge for the control center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're going to take a break for just a second. [Tape recorder turned off.]\\n\\n Having such a career with NASA, as you mentioned, you have had so many challenges and you had so many tasks, and life was almost never-ending from day to day as you accomplished one thing to another. Do you have any regrets of not becoming that teacher and filling out that application and moving on to Langley?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It hurt deeply when we had these, but there was never any doubt that we weren’t going to continue. I saw no reason whatsoever to stop just because we had accidents. It was a deep personal tragedy, but the mission had to go on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, your certainly did, from a youngster in North Carolina. You mentioned that math was just fine. Even through grade school, as a child did you enjoy doing math?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as I know, I’ve always enjoyed it. I can’t remember when I didn’t enjoy it. One funny thing about it is I think the first time that we went to one of my high school reunions, there was one of my classmates there, and he said, “She was the best thing in math I’ve ever seen,” or something similar to that. “Is she still good in math?” I don’t know that I’m still good at math, but it was always easy for me. It really was.\\n\\n The only other thing I can think of that I might would have enjoyed majoring in would have been chemistry. If I had done that, though, I would have had a totally different life. I would have gone to work for DuPont. I would have never met my husband that I have today. It would have been just a totally different life, and I wouldn’t have been involved with the space program. So I’m glad I majored in math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are, too, because your contributions have been many and I think they’ll live on in history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope somebody else recognized them. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think every time those accuracies were proofed, they recognized. Kevin, do you have anything that you’d like to add?\n\nYes, I did have a couple of questions. You mentioned once or twice your work with the gentlemen who were in the Trench. I wonder if you have any particular stories you’d like to share about any of these guys. There were some colorful characters that came out of there, very different personalities, men like Glynn [S.] Lunney or John [S.] Llewellyn [Jr.], or the ones that you had already mentioned."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:196", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were very different because I did the system parameters for all phases of the missions. I did those for every phase, so I had to know a lot about the other requirements in order to do the system parameters for those phases. I just didn’t have write the requirements and check out the software and do the subsystems tests and everything. But I did know a lot about the program overall. I had to in order to do the system parameters, to know that the systems parameters were needed for those phases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that vein, I wanted to ask you a little bit more about Apollo 8, because that decision was obviously quite a milestone, to send the second Apollo mission around the Moon, but it was kind of kept under wraps for a little while. Did you remember having any work on that type of lunar mission before it was actually revealed that NASA was going to send this mission to the moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were working on getting all the programs ready so that they could talk to each other and my part was only the numbers for those phases. All these programs had to hand over to the next phase. Like the launch program had to hand over to the orbit program. That was a pretty big phase-over, sort of like changing shifts. You had to make sure you gave the next program all the data it needed to continue, so we were working on those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know then what that was going to be for specifically, that that mission was going to be doing that? You were in on the secret, in other words?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You had to be. If you were doing mission planning, you have to be in on the missions. You have to be in on what the mission is going to be if you are doing mission planning. So, we knew a lot of all of that, like when the re-boost was for the Skylab and things like that. We were in on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little bit earlier, you talked about the Gemini 7/6 mission. That was a mission that occurred because when VI first tried to launch, there was essentially an abort on the pad. Do you remember that event specifically?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:198", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were working on getting all the programs ready so that they could talk to each other and my part was only the numbers for those phases. All these programs had to hand over to the next phase. Like the launch program had to hand over to the orbit program. That was a pretty big phase-over, sort of like changing shifts. You had to make sure you gave the next program all the data it needed to continue, so we were working on those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know then what that was going to be for specifically, that that mission was going to be doing that? You were in on the secret, in other words?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You had to be. If you were doing mission planning, you have to be in on the missions. You have to be in on what the mission is going to be if you are doing mission planning. So, we knew a lot of all of that, like when the re-boost was for the Skylab and things like that. We were in on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little bit earlier, you talked about the Gemini 7/6 mission. That was a mission that occurred because when VI first tried to launch, there was essentially an abort on the pad. Do you remember that event specifically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could not take you through it in detail. I could probably sit down and think about it for a day and figure out what—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just didn’t know if you had any specifics."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00254:200", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You had to be. If you were doing mission planning, you have to be in on the missions. You have to be in on what the mission is going to be if you are doing mission planning. So, we knew a lot of all of that, like when the re-boost was for the Skylab and things like that. We were in on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little bit earlier, you talked about the Gemini 7/6 mission. That was a mission that occurred because when VI first tried to launch, there was essentially an abort on the pad. Do you remember that event specifically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could not take you through it in detail. I could probably sit down and think about it for a day and figure out what—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just didn’t know if you had any specifics."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t. Not being in the control center, that’s not the thing you remember. How hard you had to work to get the programs turned around in order to launch and totally change the configuration of the computers is the type of things I remember rather than the actual mission phases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that makes sense, given your particular experience.\\n\\n Well, that’s all I had for this one.\n\nThen we thank you and appreciate all that you've had to offer. What a wonderful insight into couple of evolutions all by themselves in the middle of everything else that was going on."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00131:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.8683000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that component of tourism something that would perpetuate itself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it was doing phenomenally well. We sold it five years ago. We, meaning the nonprofits to think of five years ago, privatized it because it was become such a business that John and I were trying to run from here and they were doing very well. They invested a lot of money in the in the Finca. And they were going to be full all this past summer until the political upheaval, upheaval happened in the summer of 2018. And they are really in dire straits now. Tourism went to zero."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did Kenya after the bombings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, tourism went to zero. And all the merchants guesthouse families in the town of San Ramon. And the artists are all suffering from a lack of people coming. We're going to try we're recruiting two groups of adults for this spring 2020, but we don't think it's possible to take high school groups, which is really one of the main groups we want to get down there, as is as high school groups and groups that have gone down. Many groups, I don't know how many, 25, 30 groups of high school students, often with a teacher. I mean, the reports we get back from those groups are just astounding. And many of those kids go on to Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have there been some security issues recently that have put a damper on it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00131:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1870000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it was doing phenomenally well. We sold it five years ago. We, meaning the nonprofits to think of five years ago, privatized it because it was become such a business that John and I were trying to run from here and they were doing very well. They invested a lot of money in the in the Finca. And they were going to be full all this past summer until the political upheaval, upheaval happened in the summer of 2018. And they are really in dire straits now. Tourism went to zero."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did Kenya after the bombings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, tourism went to zero. And all the merchants guesthouse families in the town of San Ramon. And the artists are all suffering from a lack of people coming. We're going to try we're recruiting two groups of adults for this spring 2020, but we don't think it's possible to take high school groups, which is really one of the main groups we want to get down there, as is as high school groups and groups that have gone down. Many groups, I don't know how many, 25, 30 groups of high school students, often with a teacher. I mean, the reports we get back from those groups are just astounding. And many of those kids go on to Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have there been some security issues recently that have put a damper on it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well there was in the spring of 2018 and early summer. But since that time, there really hasn't been any issues for foreigners. I mean, there have been roadblocks and, you know, passport checks and things. But it's just, you know, the bad publicity that gets out. And, of course, the State Department has warnings out. So we hope we can get 20 to 30 people to go this year and to resume as soon as we can. The high school groups,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this the group going down in February?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00131:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.43, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, tourism went to zero. And all the merchants guesthouse families in the town of San Ramon. And the artists are all suffering from a lack of people coming. We're going to try we're recruiting two groups of adults for this spring 2020, but we don't think it's possible to take high school groups, which is really one of the main groups we want to get down there, as is as high school groups and groups that have gone down. Many groups, I don't know how many, 25, 30 groups of high school students, often with a teacher. I mean, the reports we get back from those groups are just astounding. And many of those kids go on to Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have there been some security issues recently that have put a damper on it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well there was in the spring of 2018 and early summer. But since that time, there really hasn't been any issues for foreigners. I mean, there have been roadblocks and, you know, passport checks and things. But it's just, you know, the bad publicity that gets out. And, of course, the State Department has warnings out. So we hope we can get 20 to 30 people to go this year and to resume as soon as we can. The high school groups,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this the group going down in February?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are two groups to February, you know. Yeah, and we're recruiting for them right now. Yeah. Yeah, we hope that I don't get politically incorrect. There's no Peace Corps Peace Corps pulled out immediately, pretty much immediately, because there were there were paramilitaries and extrajudicial killings and riots and blockades going on around the country and Peace Corps pretty much within a week. Pull everybody back to the capital and take them out of the. Yeah, very sad. Very sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they're not back in yet?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00131:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well there was in the spring of 2018 and early summer. But since that time, there really hasn't been any issues for foreigners. I mean, there have been roadblocks and, you know, passport checks and things. But it's just, you know, the bad publicity that gets out. And, of course, the State Department has warnings out. So we hope we can get 20 to 30 people to go this year and to resume as soon as we can. The high school groups,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this the group going down in February?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are two groups to February, you know. Yeah, and we're recruiting for them right now. Yeah. Yeah, we hope that I don't get politically incorrect. There's no Peace Corps Peace Corps pulled out immediately, pretty much immediately, because there were there were paramilitaries and extrajudicial killings and riots and blockades going on around the country and Peace Corps pretty much within a week. Pull everybody back to the capital and take them out of the. Yeah, very sad. Very sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they're not back in yet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there and there's I don't see there's just not even a line of sight for Peace Corps going back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Kenya has, the Peace Corps is going back this next year. Which is good to hear."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00131:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are two groups to February, you know. Yeah, and we're recruiting for them right now. Yeah. Yeah, we hope that I don't get politically incorrect. There's no Peace Corps Peace Corps pulled out immediately, pretty much immediately, because there were there were paramilitaries and extrajudicial killings and riots and blockades going on around the country and Peace Corps pretty much within a week. Pull everybody back to the capital and take them out of the. Yeah, very sad. Very sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they're not back in yet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there and there's I don't see there's just not even a line of sight for Peace Corps going back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Kenya has, the Peace Corps is going back this next year. Which is good to hear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, unfortunately, the government in Nicaragua is totally corrupt. And it's a real shame. They were one of the governments that had made most progress on that U.N. Millennium Goals reducing poverty. And but then they obviously made the decision that they were going to hold elections, but they were never going to lose another election."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has corruption been a major challenge for your program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00131:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there and there's I don't see there's just not even a line of sight for Peace Corps going back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Kenya has, the Peace Corps is going back this next year. Which is good to hear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, unfortunately, the government in Nicaragua is totally corrupt. And it's a real shame. They were one of the governments that had made most progress on that U.N. Millennium Goals reducing poverty. And but then they obviously made the decision that they were going to hold elections, but they were never going to lose another election."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has corruption been a major challenge for your program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. Except we did have problems with people challenging the land titles we had from the former owners of some of the properties who during that after the revolution had properties confiscated. But we had we were on solid ground, but we did have to go all the way to the Supreme Court and spend a significant amount of money defending our titles. That was very stressful for all of us. But the Senate, the political corruption means that. We don't see that they're going to allow any significant candidate to run and there's 30 to 40,000, 50,000 Nicaraguans in exile in Costa Rica, political exile. So it's a very sad situation for a country of nine million."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do expect a fairly large group to go back in the next tourism, ecotourism trips?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00131:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, unfortunately, the government in Nicaragua is totally corrupt. And it's a real shame. They were one of the governments that had made most progress on that U.N. Millennium Goals reducing poverty. And but then they obviously made the decision that they were going to hold elections, but they were never going to lose another election."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has corruption been a major challenge for your program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. Except we did have problems with people challenging the land titles we had from the former owners of some of the properties who during that after the revolution had properties confiscated. But we had we were on solid ground, but we did have to go all the way to the Supreme Court and spend a significant amount of money defending our titles. That was very stressful for all of us. But the Senate, the political corruption means that. We don't see that they're going to allow any significant candidate to run and there's 30 to 40,000, 50,000 Nicaraguans in exile in Costa Rica, political exile. So it's a very sad situation for a country of nine million."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do expect a fairly large group to go back in the next tourism, ecotourism trips?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trips well to two groups of 10 to 15 people. But that's, we were doing 60 to 120 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really. So there was quite a cut back on that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00131:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. Except we did have problems with people challenging the land titles we had from the former owners of some of the properties who during that after the revolution had properties confiscated. But we had we were on solid ground, but we did have to go all the way to the Supreme Court and spend a significant amount of money defending our titles. That was very stressful for all of us. But the Senate, the political corruption means that. We don't see that they're going to allow any significant candidate to run and there's 30 to 40,000, 50,000 Nicaraguans in exile in Costa Rica, political exile. So it's a very sad situation for a country of nine million."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do expect a fairly large group to go back in the next tourism, ecotourism trips?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trips well to two groups of 10 to 15 people. But that's, we were doing 60 to 120 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really. So there was quite a cut back on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, which affects our incomes. And it's very hard to get a lot of our donations were coming from people that made those trips so are not or don't have an income we used to have. So we're trying to survive this period and see what happens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A great program employing people. Yeah, connecting American tourism with yeah, yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00131:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trips well to two groups of 10 to 15 people. But that's, we were doing 60 to 120 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really. So there was quite a cut back on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, which affects our incomes. And it's very hard to get a lot of our donations were coming from people that made those trips so are not or don't have an income we used to have. So we're trying to survive this period and see what happens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A great program employing people. Yeah, connecting American tourism with yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's thank you for the opportunity, Bob, to speak about this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you, Richard. And as I've indicated, this will be this interview will be forwarded on to the Kennedy Library at Harvard, and it will be eventually part of the archive, the Peace Corps Oral History Archive for future generations of researchers."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00131:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, which affects our incomes. And it's very hard to get a lot of our donations were coming from people that made those trips so are not or don't have an income we used to have. So we're trying to survive this period and see what happens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A great program employing people. Yeah, connecting American tourism with yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's thank you for the opportunity, Bob, to speak about this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you, Richard. And as I've indicated, this will be this interview will be forwarded on to the Kennedy Library at Harvard, and it will be eventually part of the archive, the Peace Corps Oral History Archive for future generations of researchers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you again. It's been great to meet with you and your lovely wife, Lonna, and very well I wish you well with your with your ongoing Nicaragua program and maybe a couple of return trips to Tunisia as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.762069204538776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. 1964."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go back to a year before you joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I happened to be a teacher. I taught three years before I went in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was teaching an experimental program for high school dropouts in Flint, Michigan, called the Personalized Curriculum Program. And I was realizing that teaching students, at least those students I had, I was not very well prepared to teach them. Massive problems. And so I realized I was dealing with an unusual population at least in traditional school sense. It was a great experience, and I enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What degree did you have?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 27.513410227265307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I happened to be a teacher. I taught three years before I went in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was teaching an experimental program for high school dropouts in Flint, Michigan, called the Personalized Curriculum Program. And I was realizing that teaching students, at least those students I had, I was not very well prepared to teach them. Massive problems. And so I realized I was dealing with an unusual population at least in traditional school sense. It was a great experience, and I enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What degree did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was completing, I had a bachelor's degree in history and government from Beloit College."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year did you graduate?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.34823358585034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was teaching an experimental program for high school dropouts in Flint, Michigan, called the Personalized Curriculum Program. And I was realizing that teaching students, at least those students I had, I was not very well prepared to teach them. Massive problems. And so I realized I was dealing with an unusual population at least in traditional school sense. It was a great experience, and I enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What degree did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was completing, I had a bachelor's degree in history and government from Beloit College."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year did you graduate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1957. And I was completing a master's degree, going to summer schools at Western Michigan in teaching of social studies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And that, you were in the middle of that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.49803731761149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was completing, I had a bachelor's degree in history and government from Beloit College."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year did you graduate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1957. And I was completing a master's degree, going to summer schools at Western Michigan in teaching of social studies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And that, you were in the middle of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your third year of teaching?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 34.997819241790545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1957. And I was completing a master's degree, going to summer schools at Western Michigan in teaching of social studies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And that, you were in the middle of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your third year of teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And then I completed the degree before I went into the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Um. Where did you grow up?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.55313249087838, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your third year of teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And then I completed the degree before I went into the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Um. Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Three Rivers, Michigan, which is about 25 miles south of Kalamazoo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went to high school there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 39.50348054542042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And then I completed the degree before I went into the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Um. Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Three Rivers, Michigan, which is about 25 miles south of Kalamazoo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went to high school there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In high school, did you do any kind of volunteering work or travel?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.362321661012864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In high school, did you do any kind of volunteering work or travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my parents did the best they could on very limited budgets to try to get us to travel some. Like I remember my dad taking us to Niagara Falls when I was five or six. And then he knew that with a war breaking out, he made a quick trip to Alabama to see his sister and brother-in-law in 1942, just before gas rationing. But we saw the Smoky Mountains."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm the youngest of four. I have two sisters and a brother so, and that's our order. Girl, girl, boy, boy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And you went straight from high school to college?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 45.95813517890318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my parents did the best they could on very limited budgets to try to get us to travel some. Like I remember my dad taking us to Niagara Falls when I was five or six. And then he knew that with a war breaking out, he made a quick trip to Alabama to see his sister and brother-in-law in 1942, just before gas rationing. But we saw the Smoky Mountains."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm the youngest of four. I have two sisters and a brother so, and that's our order. Girl, girl, boy, boy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And you went straight from high school to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at the point you're entering college, what was sort of your career goal?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 46.62015019878131, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm the youngest of four. I have two sisters and a brother so, and that's our order. Girl, girl, boy, boy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And you went straight from high school to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at the point you're entering college, what was sort of your career goal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, my dad had been active in politics. At that point, never was successful in elective office, but was a delegate to the Republican convention in 1952 and was a Taft delegate, conservative Republican family. And so I thought I would, since I had majored in government and history, I thought I would have a career in politics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the four years in college, [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.85203728244606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, my dad had been active in politics. At that point, never was successful in elective office, but was a delegate to the Republican convention in 1952 and was a Taft delegate, conservative Republican family. And so I thought I would, since I had majored in government and history, I thought I would have a career in politics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the four years in college, [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked for the U.S. Forest Service in Idaho, in Montana. I was stationed in Idaho, but I fought forest fires in Montana. And I did that summers of '53, '54. So between my high school and Beloit, I was in Idaho and then also the next year. So I did, did travel. Yes. And one of the ironies is when I was in Idaho the second year, it was rainy. It was a rainy season and there weren't very many fires and not many prospects. The year before was very dry and so I made a lot of money, I mean, at a $1.50 an hour. But, you know, when you work 14 hours a day or so, you end up making a decent, a decent income."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, so this one fella was going to take a quick trip down the coast, Pacific Coast, down through Oregon and California. There are two of them, so I ended up traveling with them. The fellow who was the primary organizer had an uncle who lived in Beverly Hills, was the head set director for 20th Century Fox. And so we met Marilyn Monroe and Gene Simmons. And for a 19 year old, you know, this is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, so after college, your first degree at Beloit, you started teaching?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 35.81898118305359, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I worked. Let me back up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I lived in a funeral home in Beloit. Actually, when I was in college my freshman year, all four of us were in college. And so my parents, although my dad certainly would be a middle income person making eight or $9,000 bucks a year in those days, he didn't have that kind of money. My sisters were on scholarship and my brother at Western Michigan, I don't think his school cost maybe three or $400 a year in those days. And Beloit was relatively expensive at $1,300 a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I ended up living in a funeral home. So I got my room. I got 25 bucks a week. So that, but I ended up, when I graduated from college, I ended up with $90 in my pocket, so I was debt free. But anyway, I went to work in Detroit for the Aetna Casualty and Surety Company because I was going to be a big business type."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then go into politics."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.234542089236749, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But anyway, when I, prior to my going to Detroit working for the Aetna, I had given myself a 30 day vacation. And so I had hitchhiked up to Maine and the New England states and ended up in Washington, D.C., and stayed at the YMCA, which was a few blocks from the White House. And ironically, a fraternity brother who was from Stanford but he was a political science professor at San Jose State. And I realized that he'd ran for Congress in 1956 as a Democrat. And so I wrote him a card at Christmastime and said, although I'm a Republican, I'll come out to California and help your campaign if you're going to run again. And he wrote back and said, I'm not running for Congress this year, but going to South America. Are you interested? So I quit my job with the Aetna and I traveled to Mexico, Central and South America.\n\nThere are three of us, and we got stuck on a sandbar in the Magdalena River in Colombia. And he and the other person were on a timetable. I mean, like he had to be back in fall time to teach. All I had to do was get back and get drafted. And so we split. But then I traveled on my own for the rest of that trip. I spent a total of $600 for four and a half months. I literally ran out of money in Buenos Aires. And a German ship captain, the 24th ship captain I'd asked, said yeah, I could work on the ship. Didn't make any money, but I went from Buenos Aires to New York. So I had done some travel and service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about had you picked up any language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Spanish, I knew some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You wouldn't consider yourself fluent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, when I was there, of course, I got, I could survive with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Okay, so you finally, you get back to New York and then back to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.260602321374165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Spanish, I knew some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You wouldn't consider yourself fluent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, when I was there, of course, I got, I could survive with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Okay, so you finally, you get back to New York and then back to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three Rivers, Michigan. Went back to my draft board and said I'm here, and seven weeks later I'm in the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that put you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.321731260955758, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three Rivers, Michigan. Went back to my draft board and said I'm here, and seven weeks later I'm in the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that put you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would take us up to December 1958."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Served 21 months. Got an early out and go to western Michigan to start my teaching certificate and master's degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you become aware of the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.135256956617509, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would take us up to December 1958."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Served 21 months. Got an early out and go to western Michigan to start my teaching certificate and master's degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you become aware of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, surprisingly enough, in the campaign of 1960, I was aware of that being talked about. And then I kind of put it in the back of my mind until summer school in western Michigan in 1963, and the Peace Corps recruiter was there. And so I said, well, this sounds like a possibility for me, being single. So I got the information and filled out whatever I had to do at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a fairly lengthy application, I don't know if you remember it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.039174396241677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Served 21 months. Got an early out and go to western Michigan to start my teaching certificate and master's degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you become aware of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, surprisingly enough, in the campaign of 1960, I was aware of that being talked about. And then I kind of put it in the back of my mind until summer school in western Michigan in 1963, and the Peace Corps recruiter was there. And so I said, well, this sounds like a possibility for me, being single. So I got the information and filled out whatever I had to do at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a fairly lengthy application, I don't know if you remember it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things they ask is the preference for area. Do you recall?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.048363452150218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things they ask is the preference for area. Do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I left that blank. I said anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I thought maybe at least with my even my limited Spanish, I might go to Central or South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you think some familiarity with?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.16484828016691, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I left that blank. I said anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I thought maybe at least with my even my limited Spanish, I might go to Central or South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you think some familiarity with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I said, I'm not trying to deceive anybody, I'm not fluent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. Were they still taking the entrance exams? [inaudible]"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.294275866852121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I thought maybe at least with my even my limited Spanish, I might go to Central or South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you think some familiarity with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I said, I'm not trying to deceive anybody, I'm not fluent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. Were they still taking the entrance exams? [inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I don't remember, except for when I went into training, when I went to Columbia University, we had a battery of tests."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, this would have been, well, they may have stopped by then."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.549195407613468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I said, I'm not trying to deceive anybody, I'm not fluent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. Were they still taking the entrance exams? [inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I don't remember, except for when I went into training, when I went to Columbia University, we had a battery of tests."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, this would have been, well, they may have stopped by then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or they may have and I'm just forgetting that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So when did you apply?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.147154824214155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or they may have and I'm just forgetting that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So when did you apply?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I applied in that summer of '63."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And made at least an initial application that said I wouldn't be available until after August of '64. I did want to graduate with my master's degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you completed your master's."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.607949804682395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I applied in that summer of '63."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And made at least an initial application that said I wouldn't be available until after August of '64. I did want to graduate with my master's degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you completed your master's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do student teaching?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.897722005202661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And made at least an initial application that said I wouldn't be available until after August of '64. I did want to graduate with my master's degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you completed your master's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do student teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had done student teaching back when I got out of the Army in the academic year '60-'61. I did my student teaching at Western Michigan University, I mean, at Three Rivers High School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you applied, did you think that was it or were you still looking for career alternatives or jobs?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.330802228002957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do student teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had done student teaching back when I got out of the Army in the academic year '60-'61. I did my student teaching at Western Michigan University, I mean, at Three Rivers High School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you applied, did you think that was it or were you still looking for career alternatives or jobs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, when I was in Peace Corps, I was very open to whether I got assigned land settlement, teaching, whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But would you have fallbacks [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.346779462281146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was planning on then to stay on teaching where I was. And I got accepted in April or May of that year. Got a telegram from Sargent Shriver."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so then I made that announcement that I was not going to be back for next year because I was going in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Said you'd been accepted for Kenya. Training at Columbia University Teachers College, Columbia. Such and such dates, like September 15th to December 20th or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.71864384697905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so then I made that announcement that I was not going to be back for next year because I was going in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Said you'd been accepted for Kenya. Training at Columbia University Teachers College, Columbia. Such and such dates, like September 15th to December 20th or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I was, I was really excited. I thought, this is a tremendous, a tremendous opportunity. But also I was really honored in getting this far in the acceptance process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your family's reaction?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.46746153948031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I was, I was really excited. I thought, this is a tremendous, a tremendous opportunity. But also I was really honored in getting this far in the acceptance process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your family's reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, of course, called my parents, told them what I was doing. Since I'd been to South America and survived, my parents were not terribly distraught. And my dad had been in World War I in France, and so he could see the value of travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they were, they were very encouraging, very supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any fears or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.074957266089232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, of course, called my parents, told them what I was doing. Since I'd been to South America and survived, my parents were not terribly distraught. And my dad had been in World War I in France, and so he could see the value of travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they were, they were very encouraging, very supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any fears or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they too thought this was just a tremendous experience. Certainly an enriching one to make a better teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not that you were crazy or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.861063628988035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they were, they were very encouraging, very supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any fears or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they too thought this was just a tremendous experience. Certainly an enriching one to make a better teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not that you were crazy or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you know of Kenya?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.401181809986705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they too thought this was just a tremendous experience. Certainly an enriching one to make a better teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not that you were crazy or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you know of Kenya?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, I had, having taken history and government through college in the fifties, I was aware of the Mau Mau movement. And obviously, very biased, very pro-British at that point in time. I shouldn't say pro-British, but certainly not pro-Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you wrapped it up in Michigan and headed off?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 16.00131312220745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you know of Kenya?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, I had, having taken history and government through college in the fifties, I was aware of the Mau Mau movement. And obviously, very biased, very pro-British at that point in time. I shouldn't say pro-British, but certainly not pro-Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you wrapped it up in Michigan and headed off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. At Teachers College."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember initially reporting at Teachers College? Now you're meeting with the people who, like you, were going into Peace Corps. [inaudible]"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.001459024674942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, I had, having taken history and government through college in the fifties, I was aware of the Mau Mau movement. And obviously, very biased, very pro-British at that point in time. I shouldn't say pro-British, but certainly not pro-Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you wrapped it up in Michigan and headed off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. At Teachers College."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember initially reporting at Teachers College? Now you're meeting with the people who, like you, were going into Peace Corps. [inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't have a real clear recollection. And I'm trying to think of whether we got in at night and went straight to the hotel that we stayed at and then the next day met at Teachers College. I think that's what happened. Because I remember meeting. No, that was later, that was when we were getting ready to go to country that I met a couple of my friends who I'd trained with, we then were on the same plane. One came from Anchorage, Alaska, and then stopped in Detroit. But no, I flew into Newark because I had a high school friend who met me there. And so I really, my first night. I got there a couple of days before I was supposed to so I could visit with my high school friend who was lived in the greater New York area. He worked on Wall Street."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your training group was about 120 people?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.112732249638825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. At Teachers College."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember initially reporting at Teachers College? Now you're meeting with the people who, like you, were going into Peace Corps. [inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't have a real clear recollection. And I'm trying to think of whether we got in at night and went straight to the hotel that we stayed at and then the next day met at Teachers College. I think that's what happened. Because I remember meeting. No, that was later, that was when we were getting ready to go to country that I met a couple of my friends who I'd trained with, we then were on the same plane. One came from Anchorage, Alaska, and then stopped in Detroit. But no, I flew into Newark because I had a high school friend who met me there. And so I really, my first night. I got there a couple of days before I was supposed to so I could visit with my high school friend who was lived in the greater New York area. He worked on Wall Street."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your training group was about 120 people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "120 of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were actually in training for Swahili?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.484854629183733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "120 of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were actually in training for Swahili?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. All of us, of course, were being trained in Swahili. That was the common ground. And all being trained for education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Secondary education?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, secondary education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For Tanganyika and Kenya?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.538727365759703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. All of us, of course, were being trained in Swahili. That was the common ground. And all being trained for education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Secondary education?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, secondary education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For Tanganyika and Kenya?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct. It was Tanganyika when we started, but it was Tanzania by the time we left the training because the merger with Zanzibar in '64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you, did you differentiate initially? [inaudible]"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.709697073066337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, secondary education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For Tanganyika and Kenya?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct. It was Tanganyika when we started, but it was Tanzania by the time we left the training because the merger with Zanzibar in '64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you, did you differentiate initially? [inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were. When we were lumped together for language, we were lumped alphabetically. And so whatever this group will have this teacher and people are going to all three countries, that did not make a big difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe the training [inaudible]."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.5181445346498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were. When we were lumped together for language, we were lumped alphabetically. And so whatever this group will have this teacher and people are going to all three countries, that did not make a big difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe the training [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we'd have lectures on East African history. Cultural things. And language we had one hour, three days a week. So it was not. I mean, people knew that we were going to be teaching in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it's not like knowing Swahili meant whether we survived or not. And had a lot of presentations on racism. And of course, this is '64 when the civil rights stuff was just beginning to evolve. But, you know, whether you see two people, two males walking down the street holding hands. How do you feel about that? This is their culture and it's just a sign of affection. And it has nothing to do with sexual identity or sexual identity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that would be inaccurate."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.639684610678765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it's not like knowing Swahili meant whether we survived or not. And had a lot of presentations on racism. And of course, this is '64 when the civil rights stuff was just beginning to evolve. But, you know, whether you see two people, two males walking down the street holding hands. How do you feel about that? This is their culture and it's just a sign of affection. And it has nothing to do with sexual identity or sexual identity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that would be inaccurate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then have British teachers come in and talk about, talking about the boot, or the boot in the bottom of the car versus the trunk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You actually had?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.900845198368845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then have British teachers come in and talk about, talking about the boot, or the boot in the bottom of the car versus the trunk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You actually had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had Brits come in and teach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was fun, it was just to get this cultural difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was kind of generic?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.22316133152094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had Brits come in and teach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was fun, it was just to get this cultural difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was kind of generic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Where we were going made no difference. We were given the same education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that vary [inaudible]? Did you ever sense that [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 13.5812903683566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was fun, it was just to get this cultural difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was kind of generic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Where we were going made no difference. We were given the same education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that vary [inaudible]? Did you ever sense that [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There certainly was that sense that they're going to prepare us for possibilities of being questioned why is your government doing these kinds of things? And of course, when I was in Kenya, I was confronted with, why are you going into Vietnam?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During training, did anyone from Washington come?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.3125448537295545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Where we were going made no difference. We were given the same education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that vary [inaudible]? Did you ever sense that [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There certainly was that sense that they're going to prepare us for possibilities of being questioned why is your government doing these kinds of things? And of course, when I was in Kenya, I was confronted with, why are you going into Vietnam?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During training, did anyone from Washington come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, talking about Vietnam, we had Roger Hilsman, who was the Assistant Secretary of State for Southeast Asian Affairs and was a West Point graduate. He was defending our policy in southeast Asia. And so, yes, we had people. And also we had people who wrote about the civil rights. Our chief psychologist in the deselection process, was it Dr. Gilbert, who was the chief psychologist at Nuremberg? We were just scared to death of him. I only heard him once and didn't really meet him personally. He presented when we had our first deselection. And like ten people got deselected, I mean, which was not a high number. I think out of 120 of us, 109 survived that process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the deselection process? I mean, did they do a battery of tests?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.027833152752535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, talking about Vietnam, we had Roger Hilsman, who was the Assistant Secretary of State for Southeast Asian Affairs and was a West Point graduate. He was defending our policy in southeast Asia. And so, yes, we had people. And also we had people who wrote about the civil rights. Our chief psychologist in the deselection process, was it Dr. Gilbert, who was the chief psychologist at Nuremberg? We were just scared to death of him. I only heard him once and didn't really meet him personally. He presented when we had our first deselection. And like ten people got deselected, I mean, which was not a high number. I think out of 120 of us, 109 survived that process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the deselection process? I mean, did they do a battery of tests?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Psychological tests?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Psychological and probably intelligence tests. Because at least I know when I was interviewed by my psychologist, he said I was kind of in the mid. I wasn't, I wasn't at the top or at the bottom. I don't know what that meant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You remember, do you recall the interview?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.923250805867326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Psychological and probably intelligence tests. Because at least I know when I was interviewed by my psychologist, he said I was kind of in the mid. I wasn't, I wasn't at the top or at the bottom. I don't know what that meant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You remember, do you recall the interview?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at least the interview that I got was centered around, well, do you think you can survive two years without conveniences? Loneliness. You think you can cope? And I certainly felt, you know, I was a 29 year old male and so I was used to being single. And I thought, well, I can give it a try and certainly see, but I would think that I had that. And it is a big difference between being home and being alone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of the group [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.914723117630363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at least the interview that I got was centered around, well, do you think you can survive two years without conveniences? Loneliness. You think you can cope? And I certainly felt, you know, I was a 29 year old male and so I was used to being single. And I thought, well, I can give it a try and certainly see, but I would think that I had that. And it is a big difference between being home and being alone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of the group [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think, I think all of us had a level of stress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when the big [inaudible], what was the reaction?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.600443234060853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shock. Disappointment. Not because they got deselected, but in the process, because one of the persons was very popular with the. We thought of all of us. And that's another thing I think plenty of us were tremendous people. I mean, I've never been involved, because then it became a family. Even though 120 of us got to know each other, at least to some degree. And it was just a talented group of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't feel I was in any clique. I was never an outcast, but I never was inner-inner in any subgroup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most of the group were just recent graduates?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.778270260067615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't feel I was in any clique. I was never an outcast, but I never was inner-inner in any subgroup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most of the group were just recent graduates?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Most were 21, 22, 23."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in effect, you were older."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.60280279020693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Most were 21, 22, 23."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in effect, you were older."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know there was another person who was 26, another male who was 26, I was 29, but he also was a former veteran. So there were two of us who had been veterans, and there were three women who were older than I was. But I was the oldest male. Yes. Clara was 67."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. [inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh, the language component was minimal."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.6697808780077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know there was another person who was 26, another male who was 26, I was 29, but he also was a former veteran. So there were two of us who had been veterans, and there were three women who were older than I was. But I was the oldest male. Yes. Clara was 67."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. [inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh, the language component was minimal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] What was your own feeling about deselection [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.855312086675221, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh, the language component was minimal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] What was your own feeling about deselection [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I certainly felt buoyed by making the first cut because I knew there would be a final cut. But, but, no, then my self confidence rose. I said, okay, I think this is the hardest part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of the group [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.636187761327433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I certainly felt buoyed by making the first cut because I knew there would be a final cut. But, but, no, then my self confidence rose. I said, okay, I think this is the hardest part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of the group [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would think, out of 120, maybe 20."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That low?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During training [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.26243084591937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would think, out of 120, maybe 20."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That low?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During training [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I should have said that initially, that the major focus really was on education. You know, how to present, how to teach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were a teacher already."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.996084203504598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, we had eight. I think we had two people come back who were teachers for East Africa, which was the program that preceded the Peace Corps. [inaudible]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "American. We did have a couple of British people as well as I talked about doing the language thing and the cultural thing. So, so we got a good exposure, I thought. And then we had a block of student teaching. I was assigned to Commerce High School, which is now I think a hall. Not Carnegie Hall, but where Leonard Bernstein was conductor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway. The old Commerce High School, it's now torn down. Anyway, it was, looked like it had possibilities, but having taught I was kind of bored. And so I fortunately was able to opt out and I worked for Leonard Covello who had been principal of Benjamin Franklin High School in Harlem, Puerto Rican, the commonwealth of Puerto Rico. So Nancy Shandling and I opted out because we've been teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they simply said, you don't have to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.106760226116219, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "American. We did have a couple of British people as well as I talked about doing the language thing and the cultural thing. So, so we got a good exposure, I thought. And then we had a block of student teaching. I was assigned to Commerce High School, which is now I think a hall. Not Carnegie Hall, but where Leonard Bernstein was conductor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway. The old Commerce High School, it's now torn down. Anyway, it was, looked like it had possibilities, but having taught I was kind of bored. And so I fortunately was able to opt out and I worked for Leonard Covello who had been principal of Benjamin Franklin High School in Harlem, Puerto Rican, the commonwealth of Puerto Rico. So Nancy Shandling and I opted out because we've been teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they simply said, you don't have to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. They gave us permission. I think we had to find something before we could opt out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And what did you do instead?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.007511362351353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway. The old Commerce High School, it's now torn down. Anyway, it was, looked like it had possibilities, but having taught I was kind of bored. And so I fortunately was able to opt out and I worked for Leonard Covello who had been principal of Benjamin Franklin High School in Harlem, Puerto Rican, the commonwealth of Puerto Rico. So Nancy Shandling and I opted out because we've been teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they simply said, you don't have to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. They gave us permission. I think we had to find something before we could opt out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And what did you do instead?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we helped organize a one day workshop for students at Benjamin Franklin High School, for people in the neighborhood, for career development. So a lot of my colleagues volunteered a half a day or a day to talk about what it was like to be whatever. And some were not really doing anything they were familiar with. Somebody didn't show up who was a beautician. But that was, that was also part of the growth, the development, was to do the unusual and be flexible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there, were there any [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.00834595816817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. They gave us permission. I think we had to find something before we could opt out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And what did you do instead?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we helped organize a one day workshop for students at Benjamin Franklin High School, for people in the neighborhood, for career development. So a lot of my colleagues volunteered a half a day or a day to talk about what it was like to be whatever. And some were not really doing anything they were familiar with. Somebody didn't show up who was a beautician. But that was, that was also part of the growth, the development, was to do the unusual and be flexible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there, were there any [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Swahili teacher was from Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any significant others?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.120384397964633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we helped organize a one day workshop for students at Benjamin Franklin High School, for people in the neighborhood, for career development. So a lot of my colleagues volunteered a half a day or a day to talk about what it was like to be whatever. And some were not really doing anything they were familiar with. Somebody didn't show up who was a beautician. But that was, that was also part of the growth, the development, was to do the unusual and be flexible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there, were there any [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Swahili teacher was from Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any significant others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than an occasional person coming in and talking about cultural things. There was no permanent staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there discussions or lectures about [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.355982664405149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My Swahili teacher was from Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any significant others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than an occasional person coming in and talking about cultural things. There was no permanent staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there discussions or lectures about [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe not quite in that category, but certainly their awareness was heightened on these things. But it wasn't a direct topic on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there lectures about [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.395536293783499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than an occasional person coming in and talking about cultural things. There was no permanent staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there discussions or lectures about [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe not quite in that category, but certainly their awareness was heightened on these things. But it wasn't a direct topic on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there lectures about [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not directly, because most of this was in '50, '52 to '54, '55. Since Kenyatta, of course, had been now at that time was the prime minister, was prime minister the first year. And when we got in country, he'd become president. So the government format was parliamentary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how long did the training last?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.328373659759443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe not quite in that category, but certainly their awareness was heightened on these things. But it wasn't a direct topic on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there lectures about [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not directly, because most of this was in '50, '52 to '54, '55. Since Kenyatta, of course, had been now at that time was the prime minister, was prime minister the first year. And when we got in country, he'd become president. So the government format was parliamentary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how long did the training last?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I remember, September 20th to December 20th, and then we had time off to go back home for Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Do you remember the final deselection?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.364859621954936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not directly, because most of this was in '50, '52 to '54, '55. Since Kenyatta, of course, had been now at that time was the prime minister, was prime minister the first year. And when we got in country, he'd become president. So the government format was parliamentary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how long did the training last?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I remember, September 20th to December 20th, and then we had time off to go back home for Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Do you remember the final deselection?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was less stressful it seemed like, and only two people or one person maybe at that point were deselected. So it wasn't like the mid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been given an assignment? Did you know?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.51651069106104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I remember, September 20th to December 20th, and then we had time off to go back home for Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Do you remember the final deselection?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was less stressful it seemed like, and only two people or one person maybe at that point were deselected. So it wasn't like the mid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been given an assignment? Did you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't know where, that didn't happen until we got in country. We just knew that we're going to Kenya and we're going to teach in a secondary school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what subject were you going to be teaching?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.685011878956711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was less stressful it seemed like, and only two people or one person maybe at that point were deselected. So it wasn't like the mid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been given an assignment? Did you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't know where, that didn't happen until we got in country. We just knew that we're going to Kenya and we're going to teach in a secondary school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what subject were you going to be teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was obviously thinking I was going to be involved in some kind of social studies as I had a master's in teaching social studies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that didn't match up."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.983346532174123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't know where, that didn't happen until we got in country. We just knew that we're going to Kenya and we're going to teach in a secondary school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what subject were you going to be teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was obviously thinking I was going to be involved in some kind of social studies as I had a master's in teaching social studies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that didn't match up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had home leave?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 14.425940591304581, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was obviously thinking I was going to be involved in some kind of social studies as I had a master's in teaching social studies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that didn't match up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had home leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Five days, six days?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.139933990338424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had home leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Five days, six days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably a whole week, as I remember maybe it was the 20th. Then because we landed in Nairobi on the 31st. And so, and we had a 12 hour layover in Madrid. SO we flew from New York to Madrid, to Athens. And then we had an hour refueling and that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a charter flight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.933259989264915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Five days, six days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably a whole week, as I remember maybe it was the 20th. Then because we landed in Nairobi on the 31st. And so, and we had a 12 hour layover in Madrid. SO we flew from New York to Madrid, to Athens. And then we had an hour refueling and that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a charter flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the seats were full with volunteers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.81473332140546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably a whole week, as I remember maybe it was the 20th. Then because we landed in Nairobi on the 31st. And so, and we had a 12 hour layover in Madrid. SO we flew from New York to Madrid, to Athens. And then we had an hour refueling and that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a charter flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the seats were full with volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the 120 of us plus the land development people going to Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] When you went home, any second thoughts?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.794148134894956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the seats were full with volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the 120 of us plus the land development people going to Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] When you went home, any second thoughts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, not for me. I mean, I was wound up. I was ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your family give you a big send off?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.88238681654995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the 120 of us plus the land development people going to Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] When you went home, any second thoughts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, not for me. I mean, I was wound up. I was ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your family give you a big send off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my family certainly gave me a tremendous send off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in the local paper?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.435045452530801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my family certainly gave me a tremendous send off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you in the local paper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. Three Rivers is the city of 7,000, but I had my picture in the paper, selected for Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you arrived in the airport."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.483383836145334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. Three Rivers is the city of 7,000, but I had my picture in the paper, selected for Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you arrived in the airport."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, my dad and my mother drove me to Detroit and people got off the plane, and that's when I saw [inaudible]. And she was from Anchorage and so she was on the flight with me going from Detroit to New York. And then, of course, we all assembled in the airport in New York City to catch our one flight. And as I say, we had 12 hours in Madrid. Of course we're tired, but I tried to make every bit of that 12 hours. Go to the Prado."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were on travel."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.20375981793926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you arrived in the airport."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, my dad and my mother drove me to Detroit and people got off the plane, and that's when I saw [inaudible]. And she was from Anchorage and so she was on the flight with me going from Detroit to New York. And then, of course, we all assembled in the airport in New York City to catch our one flight. And as I say, we had 12 hours in Madrid. Of course we're tired, but I tried to make every bit of that 12 hours. Go to the Prado."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were on travel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a traveler. And then we refueled in Athens. So I have been to Greece for an hour. But then, then as we were flying, the sun was coming up and I could look down and I could see where the White Nile and the Blue Nile came together. And we're flying over to Khartoum. And then I don't know how many hours later the landing in Nairobi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a reception when you landed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.893530639431185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a traveler. And then we refueled in Athens. So I have been to Greece for an hour. But then, then as we were flying, the sun was coming up and I could look down and I could see where the White Nile and the Blue Nile came together. And we're flying over to Khartoum. And then I don't know how many hours later the landing in Nairobi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a reception when you landed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Governors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And of course, the planned settlement people spoke very good Swahili so they could sing the national anthem much better than we could. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] Do you recall at any point was there a swearing in ceremony? [inaudible]"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.881700710479095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Governors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And of course, the planned settlement people spoke very good Swahili so they could sing the national anthem much better than we could. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] Do you recall at any point was there a swearing in ceremony? [inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that. It's not to say it didn't happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about your initial reaction to being in Kenya."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.757445233865662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And of course, the planned settlement people spoke very good Swahili so they could sing the national anthem much better than we could. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] Do you recall at any point was there a swearing in ceremony? [inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that. It's not to say it didn't happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about your initial reaction to being in Kenya."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were assigned to a hotel. I got sick for some reason, either because I hadn't been sleeping. I read a book a friend of mine, Neil Lampert, who was one of my professors at Western Michigan, gave me a book. Departing. And I read that book in its entirety on this flight. So I was really wound up. So probably from the lack of sleep, my body finally caved in and had got a tremendous cold. Finally, Dr. Campbell came up and gave me a shot or something because I was kind of throwing up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the first couple of days [inaudible]."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.619383593184068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that. It's not to say it didn't happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about your initial reaction to being in Kenya."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were assigned to a hotel. I got sick for some reason, either because I hadn't been sleeping. I read a book a friend of mine, Neil Lampert, who was one of my professors at Western Michigan, gave me a book. Departing. And I read that book in its entirety on this flight. So I was really wound up. So probably from the lack of sleep, my body finally caved in and had got a tremendous cold. Finally, Dr. Campbell came up and gave me a shot or something because I was kind of throwing up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the first couple of days [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was at that time that the group met Tom Mboya and really, really high powered people, who I missed. I missed that part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got to Nairobi as a group [inaudible] other two continue on?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.354870659093409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were assigned to a hotel. I got sick for some reason, either because I hadn't been sleeping. I read a book a friend of mine, Neil Lampert, who was one of my professors at Western Michigan, gave me a book. Departing. And I read that book in its entirety on this flight. So I was really wound up. So probably from the lack of sleep, my body finally caved in and had got a tremendous cold. Finally, Dr. Campbell came up and gave me a shot or something because I was kind of throwing up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the first couple of days [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was at that time that the group met Tom Mboya and really, really high powered people, who I missed. I missed that part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got to Nairobi as a group [inaudible] other two continue on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes. The Kenyan group stayed in Nairobi and the Uganda group, I don't know how they got to Uganda. They, we split."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all of a sudden, now the groups is down to about 40, 50 people?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.172078510103788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was at that time that the group met Tom Mboya and really, really high powered people, who I missed. I missed that part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got to Nairobi as a group [inaudible] other two continue on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes. The Kenyan group stayed in Nairobi and the Uganda group, I don't know how they got to Uganda. They, we split."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all of a sudden, now the groups is down to about 40, 50 people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably 35. 40 originally. Probably someone of those people [inaudible]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your initial reaction then after that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.9689761223375415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes. The Kenyan group stayed in Nairobi and the Uganda group, I don't know how they got to Uganda. They, we split."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all of a sudden, now the groups is down to about 40, 50 people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably 35. 40 originally. Probably someone of those people [inaudible]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your initial reaction then after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Nairobi certainly was not bush. Major city. So, so that, I mean, the shock wasn't like if you landed in [inaudible]. It was a major city and hearing the different languages, but most people spoke, everyone we encountered spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was kind of an easy transition?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.743306802597268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably 35. 40 originally. Probably someone of those people [inaudible]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your initial reaction then after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Nairobi certainly was not bush. Major city. So, so that, I mean, the shock wasn't like if you landed in [inaudible]. It was a major city and hearing the different languages, but most people spoke, everyone we encountered spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was kind of an easy transition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Yeah. And then people were. Met you. Met the Peace Corps Director Tom Kunde. And then the assignments were given. And so then we have an allotment of money to go buy bedding, pots, and whatever, whatever we need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you try your Swahili at all the first few?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.603674225108076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Nairobi certainly was not bush. Major city. So, so that, I mean, the shock wasn't like if you landed in [inaudible]. It was a major city and hearing the different languages, but most people spoke, everyone we encountered spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was kind of an easy transition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Yeah. And then people were. Met you. Met the Peace Corps Director Tom Kunde. And then the assignments were given. And so then we have an allotment of money to go buy bedding, pots, and whatever, whatever we need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you try your Swahili at all the first few?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some. But I have to admit, I was not terribly fluent. Didn't push it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about your time. At any point do you recall [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.559638027897861, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Yeah. And then people were. Met you. Met the Peace Corps Director Tom Kunde. And then the assignments were given. And so then we have an allotment of money to go buy bedding, pots, and whatever, whatever we need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you try your Swahili at all the first few?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some. But I have to admit, I was not terribly fluent. Didn't push it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about your time. At any point do you recall [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure that that happened and I didn't have any preference. I just said, send me, again like my application, send me wherever you want. I'm open to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So within the group, I mean, there wasn't any sort of [inaudible]."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.08592322071037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least I didn't have that sense. I mean, I didn't. I really liked everybody and I thought I could work with anybody. And I was assigned with Steve Poland to work in a Harambee school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what was it? Freedom. And it was one of the new schools just being opened. And so I thought this is going to be a neat experience, Steve and I got along well. And then when we got on the train to go to Kisumu, because the Harambee school was south of Kisumu. But when I got off the train, I had, overnight, been reassigned by the Ministry of Education and ended up going to Maseno, which was about 25 miles north of Kisumu. So Steve and I got separated at that point in time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that happened just as we were there and assignments were read out. And Breyfogle, you've been reassigned to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was before?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.428803578567078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what was it? Freedom. And it was one of the new schools just being opened. And so I thought this is going to be a neat experience, Steve and I got along well. And then when we got on the train to go to Kisumu, because the Harambee school was south of Kisumu. But when I got off the train, I had, overnight, been reassigned by the Ministry of Education and ended up going to Maseno, which was about 25 miles north of Kisumu. So Steve and I got separated at that point in time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that happened just as we were there and assignments were read out. And Breyfogle, you've been reassigned to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were in Kisumu at the train depot at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And somebody came?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.703434264152371, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And said, you're going to Maseno."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the Ministry of Education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was, I had to readjust. And plus the fact Steve and I bought stuff together. And so we had to kind of look at what, what we could separate. So he took the pots and pans because I figured I could take the, I had my blanket and sheets and those things because that stuff you, of course, had your own. That was easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you get to Maseno?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.806708968089346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was, I had to readjust. And plus the fact Steve and I bought stuff together. And so we had to kind of look at what, what we could separate. So he took the pots and pans because I figured I could take the, I had my blanket and sheets and those things because that stuff you, of course, had your own. That was easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you get to Maseno?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somebody from Maseno, one of the teachers, one of the English teachers, who had a car, was asked to come down and pick me up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you're going off [inaudible]."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.229676631210385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somebody from Maseno, one of the teachers, one of the English teachers, who had a car, was asked to come down and pick me up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you're going off [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. And that was. The Brit, who was the geography teacher, who I ended up living with during this time, was very welcoming. They made me feel very accepted. Just looking at the scenery, it was beautiful. Your first real glimpse of the African countryside, or at least for me. I thought it was beautiful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a good road there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.221823001494301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. And that was. The Brit, who was the geography teacher, who I ended up living with during this time, was very welcoming. They made me feel very accepted. Just looking at the scenery, it was beautiful. Your first real glimpse of the African countryside, or at least for me. I thought it was beautiful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a good road there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, at that point in time, it was, as I remember, it was tarmac. But part of it was relatively smooth ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the Brit try to fill you in on the school and what to expect?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.212127162338644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, at that point in time, it was, as I remember, it was tarmac. But part of it was relatively smooth ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the Brit try to fill you in on the school and what to expect?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just in general terms. This is a school founded in 1907, well-established. The students are good students. You know, they're the cream of the crop of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any idea why [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.791252402598492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just in general terms. This is a school founded in 1907, well-established. The students are good students. You know, they're the cream of the crop of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any idea why [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I could, I could say probably because I had experience and also a masters degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no one ever [inaudible]? So you arrived at the school."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.434724891776103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any idea why [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I could, I could say probably because I had experience and also a masters degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no one ever [inaudible]? So you arrived at the school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your living arrangements?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.455041003808097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was assigned to live with the geography teacher at least for the interim. Uh, the house that I lived in that first two weeks, because later I was going to be assigned to another house. Certainly more than adequate, but a much older house than some of the newer houses. In fact, they were constructing three new houses on the other side, of the western side of the compound. But that was a little house with two bedrooms. So I had my own bedroom. Living room, dining room, little kitchen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Running water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Running water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Electricity at night. It was a generator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A steward or servant?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.283378893120108, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Running water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Electricity at night. It was a generator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A steward or servant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This person happened to have a, uh, houseboy is the term, which is very colonial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you beginning to feel [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.870420992355676, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Electricity at night. It was a generator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A steward or servant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This person happened to have a, uh, houseboy is the term, which is very colonial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you beginning to feel [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was a struggle because I was really looking at the mud hut impoverishment of being a person living on my own, not being dependent on other people. But I have to admit that then over a period of time, it took me about a month to get used to the idea of having, quote, a houseboy. We realized really how important this was for that person. I mean, it's an interesting part of the Kenyan economy. So this person then offered me $12 month to do your laundry, mow your yard, clean your house. And that was his livelihood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.052703693217662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but there was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I mean, the expectation I thought was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Your own, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, your own expectation [inaudible]."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.941609497799583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Your own, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, your own expectation [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we would take care of ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not bad at all. And certainly when we got the lay of the land and realized what was really expected, for the economic reasons and because of time. We were just horrendously busy once the students came that we didn't have time to mow the yard. I had, I had snakes in my yard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe the school. This was not a well-off school."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.343442730274148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there are 60 or 70 even."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, we had forms 1 through 6, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The headmaster, of course, was there for many years. His father happened to have been the bishop of Uganda. So he was maybe born in England, but had lived much of his life in East Africa. And his wife, Cicely, was the daughter of a bishop in India. I mean, so in other words, she was a colonial child as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I don't know [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.381603033637942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, we had forms 1 through 6, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The headmaster, of course, was there for many years. His father happened to have been the bishop of Uganda. So he was maybe born in England, but had lived much of his life in East Africa. And his wife, Cicely, was the daughter of a bishop in India. I mean, so in other words, she was a colonial child as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I don't know [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But none of my British colleagues opted for that. They maintained the British passport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But how many of the British [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.535114481819935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The headmaster, of course, was there for many years. His father happened to have been the bishop of Uganda. So he was maybe born in England, but had lived much of his life in East Africa. And his wife, Cicely, was the daughter of a bishop in India. I mean, so in other words, she was a colonial child as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I don't know [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But none of my British colleagues opted for that. They maintained the British passport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But how many of the British [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think all were British."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so they come out just to teach."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.240882076320906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think all were British."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so they come out just to teach."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had one missionary probably. A young wife, two children. And the others were more my age, I mean, my age being 29, I was. And so the physics teacher, the chemistry teacher, and the geography teacher were about my age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this a church run school?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.378757862578784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had one missionary probably. A young wife, two children. And the others were more my age, I mean, my age being 29, I was. And so the physics teacher, the chemistry teacher, and the geography teacher were about my age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this a church run school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an Anglican school, British church, Church of England. In fact, in Maseno there's a cathedral. The chapel that we had on campus, I realize now, since I'm now an Episcopalian, sometimes we pray for the Diocese of the Maseno."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And but you still got the support in that system."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.121752897913282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was, it was a government, by that time it truly was, the government took control of it. But it certainly, we taught religion. There was a Cambridge exam, the students took an exam like in November of their fourth year and their sixth year. And those exams were bundled up and sent to Cambridge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Kenyan staff were teacher trained. In other words, they had gone through a certain level of education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not university?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not university. We did have later on have a graduate. And these, the African teachers basically taught forms 1 and 2, the lower forms, math, whatever the subject matter. And the Brits taught the higher levels. But later on when there wasn't a graduate, he was teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the school [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.135280997681425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Kenyan staff were teacher trained. In other words, they had gone through a certain level of education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not university?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not university. We did have later on have a graduate. And these, the African teachers basically taught forms 1 and 2, the lower forms, math, whatever the subject matter. And the Brits taught the higher levels. But later on when there wasn't a graduate, he was teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the school [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was initially and then when the physics teacher married an American in my second year, she then joined the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the student body?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.26142333075714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not university. We did have later on have a graduate. And these, the African teachers basically taught forms 1 and 2, the lower forms, math, whatever the subject matter. And the Brits taught the higher levels. But later on when there wasn't a graduate, he was teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the school [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was initially and then when the physics teacher married an American in my second year, she then joined the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the student body?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The student body was all male."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a boarding school?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.512692589730154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was initially and then when the physics teacher married an American in my second year, she then joined the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the student body?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The student body was all male."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a boarding school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. There were 10 dormitories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, well, let's talk about [inaudible]."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.347436210811281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The student body was all male."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a boarding school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. There were 10 dormitories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, well, let's talk about [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The headmaster, Bertram Bower, a delightful person. He later retired to [inaudible] came to an. After I went and got back and got married, I spent an evening with Bertram [inaudible]. But anyway, Bertram assigned me forms 1 math, religion. And form 3 history. So I was out of my head in the math and religion because I certainly was not steeped in the religion. And the math, I could do the basic math, but I was just barely a day ahead of the students. But then, because of the detached retina from one of the English teachers, this was the Hungarian born American who had an Australian wife. And then when he had the detached retina and had to go back to New York and get that taken care of, his wife taught his classes. But then she left to go to New York. And then that the big shift, that I got all forms 3 and 4 history and English, forms 5 [inaudible]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But eventually [inaudible]."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.274929123123647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. There were 10 dormitories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, well, let's talk about [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The headmaster, Bertram Bower, a delightful person. He later retired to [inaudible] came to an. After I went and got back and got married, I spent an evening with Bertram [inaudible]. But anyway, Bertram assigned me forms 1 math, religion. And form 3 history. So I was out of my head in the math and religion because I certainly was not steeped in the religion. And the math, I could do the basic math, but I was just barely a day ahead of the students. But then, because of the detached retina from one of the English teachers, this was the Hungarian born American who had an Australian wife. And then when he had the detached retina and had to go back to New York and get that taken care of, his wife taught his classes. But then she left to go to New York. And then that the big shift, that I got all forms 3 and 4 history and English, forms 5 [inaudible]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But eventually [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a syllabus but that meant that I really had to do a lot of boning up to even be ahead of the students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Same things with the math?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.305476803470718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The headmaster, Bertram Bower, a delightful person. He later retired to [inaudible] came to an. After I went and got back and got married, I spent an evening with Bertram [inaudible]. But anyway, Bertram assigned me forms 1 math, religion. And form 3 history. So I was out of my head in the math and religion because I certainly was not steeped in the religion. And the math, I could do the basic math, but I was just barely a day ahead of the students. But then, because of the detached retina from one of the English teachers, this was the Hungarian born American who had an Australian wife. And then when he had the detached retina and had to go back to New York and get that taken care of, his wife taught his classes. But then she left to go to New York. And then that the big shift, that I got all forms 3 and 4 history and English, forms 5 [inaudible]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But eventually [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a syllabus but that meant that I really had to do a lot of boning up to even be ahead of the students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Same things with the math?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Same thing with the math that I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.450529781634131, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a syllabus but that meant that I really had to do a lot of boning up to even be ahead of the students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Same things with the math?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Same thing with the math that I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I had had high school algebra and geometry, advanced algebra and solid geometry, and that was the extent of my math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Given the fact that this is such a [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.500588646260145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Same thing with the math that I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I had had high school algebra and geometry, advanced algebra and solid geometry, and that was the extent of my math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Given the fact that this is such a [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had those feelings. But overall, I thought. I mean, even though I thought I was out of depth in the math and religious studies, that shifted probably within six weeks. Yeah, the shift was not even a full semester. But it was during this time the results came out from the Cambridge exams from the year before. And it was the worst in the school system. And the students got very upset and went on strike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was this?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.395788452173015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had those feelings. But overall, I thought. I mean, even though I thought I was out of depth in the math and religious studies, that shifted probably within six weeks. Yeah, the shift was not even a full semester. But it was during this time the results came out from the Cambridge exams from the year before. And it was the worst in the school system. And the students got very upset and went on strike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in my first semester. And the students were on strike and not willing to participate in doing their garden work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We haven't even gotten that far yet. We had a meeting with the principal. The headmaster got permission from the Ministry of Education to send the students home. So the students were sent home for about a week. But this school strike became a national issue since Maseno was a very prominent school. Vice President Oginga Odinga and financial minister Tom Mboya had gone to school there. So Parliament was talking about this strike in Maseno and blaming it on the Peace Corps for not being prepared to teach. And of course, I really was not prepared to teach some of the subjects I had been teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were these, they must have been politically motivated attacks?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.328653835747794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in my first semester. And the students were on strike and not willing to participate in doing their garden work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We haven't even gotten that far yet. We had a meeting with the principal. The headmaster got permission from the Ministry of Education to send the students home. So the students were sent home for about a week. But this school strike became a national issue since Maseno was a very prominent school. Vice President Oginga Odinga and financial minister Tom Mboya had gone to school there. So Parliament was talking about this strike in Maseno and blaming it on the Peace Corps for not being prepared to teach. And of course, I really was not prepared to teach some of the subjects I had been teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were these, they must have been politically motivated attacks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was some political division [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.031837595275326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We haven't even gotten that far yet. We had a meeting with the principal. The headmaster got permission from the Ministry of Education to send the students home. So the students were sent home for about a week. But this school strike became a national issue since Maseno was a very prominent school. Vice President Oginga Odinga and financial minister Tom Mboya had gone to school there. So Parliament was talking about this strike in Maseno and blaming it on the Peace Corps for not being prepared to teach. And of course, I really was not prepared to teach some of the subjects I had been teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were these, they must have been politically motivated attacks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was some political division [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course there was. If you read Time magazine, if you had read Time magazine, Oginga Odinga, of course, was kind of considered pro-communist. He was a Luo, a member of the Luo tribe. Two thirds of our students were Luos. And so there might have been that. Certainly the students were truly upset with the results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, [inaudible]."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.813152883639251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was some political division [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course there was. If you read Time magazine, if you had read Time magazine, Oginga Odinga, of course, was kind of considered pro-communist. He was a Luo, a member of the Luo tribe. Two thirds of our students were Luos. And so there might have been that. Certainly the students were truly upset with the results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I'm assuming there were some student leaders. I wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you a very short time [inaudible]."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.68128098182139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course there was. If you read Time magazine, if you had read Time magazine, Oginga Odinga, of course, was kind of considered pro-communist. He was a Luo, a member of the Luo tribe. Two thirds of our students were Luos. And so there might have been that. Certainly the students were truly upset with the results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I'm assuming there were some student leaders. I wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you a very short time [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it gave me time to prepare. It helped me get caught up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this period, is that when your schedule changed?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.645867757579321, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I'm assuming there were some student leaders. I wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you a very short time [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it gave me time to prepare. It helped me get caught up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this period, is that when your schedule changed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My schedule had changed before that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so now you're history."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.797367601949778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My schedule had changed before that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so now you're history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, which I felt far more comfortable with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was. Or at least, we're going to sit the exam the years after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] you'll be out of here before [inaudible]."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.997075113277532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, which I felt far more comfortable with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was. Or at least, we're going to sit the exam the years after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] you'll be out of here before [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.342068041083373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, certainly. In other words, the students made it very clear to me that I was there to teach them English or history. And the history, of course, is crazy. It was British Empire and Commonwealth history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were very, very clear about it. You're here to teach us. We need to take this exam. And our lives, our future hinges on how we do on this exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, did they say that to you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.71340893453708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, certainly. In other words, the students made it very clear to me that I was there to teach them English or history. And the history, of course, is crazy. It was British Empire and Commonwealth history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were very, very clear about it. You're here to teach us. We need to take this exam. And our lives, our future hinges on how we do on this exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, did they say that to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. No, that was very clear. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How does, uh, Kenyan English is obviously a little bit."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.237121038374532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were very, very clear about it. You're here to teach us. We need to take this exam. And our lives, our future hinges on how we do on this exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, did they say that to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. No, that was very clear. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How does, uh, Kenyan English is obviously a little bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of the King's English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that an adjustment?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.930134487082814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. No, that was very clear. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How does, uh, Kenyan English is obviously a little bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of the King's English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that an adjustment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The joke was, as I got settled in, was the status symbol was to get an American accent rather than a British accent. So the Brits would tease me. And African students weren't the ones that really said this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, did any of your students [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 16.589038318980904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of the King's English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that an adjustment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The joke was, as I got settled in, was the status symbol was to get an American accent rather than a British accent. So the Brits would tease me. And African students weren't the ones that really said this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, did any of your students [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they. No. But no, they, they wanted to be up to speed. And when we're teaching some of the literature, of course, a lot of it was British literature like Dickens, Orwell. But anyway, if there happened to have been an American author, of course they could see the slight difference in the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the strike is over [inaudible]."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.09893146553434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The joke was, as I got settled in, was the status symbol was to get an American accent rather than a British accent. So the Brits would tease me. And African students weren't the ones that really said this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, did any of your students [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they. No. But no, they, they wanted to be up to speed. And when we're teaching some of the literature, of course, a lot of it was British literature like Dickens, Orwell. But anyway, if there happened to have been an American author, of course they could see the slight difference in the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the strike is over [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The strike took place probably two thirds of the way through my first semester. And so I finished that first semester and then I had a month off. And, well, in Kenya, the schools had three months off. You'd go to school like from January, mid-January to April. And have mid-April to mid-May off. In school from mid-May to mid-August. Off mid-August to mid-September. Teaching from mid- September to, say, right up to Christmas or 20th. And then have that off until mid-January."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so [inaudible]."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.665479406149267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they. No. But no, they, they wanted to be up to speed. And when we're teaching some of the literature, of course, a lot of it was British literature like Dickens, Orwell. But anyway, if there happened to have been an American author, of course they could see the slight difference in the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the strike is over [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The strike took place probably two thirds of the way through my first semester. And so I finished that first semester and then I had a month off. And, well, in Kenya, the schools had three months off. You'd go to school like from January, mid-January to April. And have mid-April to mid-May off. In school from mid-May to mid-August. Off mid-August to mid-September. Teaching from mid- September to, say, right up to Christmas or 20th. And then have that off until mid-January."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your sense of the interaction with the professional [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.183866006832519, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The strike took place probably two thirds of the way through my first semester. And so I finished that first semester and then I had a month off. And, well, in Kenya, the schools had three months off. You'd go to school like from January, mid-January to April. And have mid-April to mid-May off. In school from mid-May to mid-August. Off mid-August to mid-September. Teaching from mid- September to, say, right up to Christmas or 20th. And then have that off until mid-January."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your sense of the interaction with the professional [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There certainly was a camaraderie. But it wasn't the same camaraderie that I had with Americans. It still was, I don't like the word colonial, but there certainly was that angle that the British were superior and better educated. I mean, the truth is there was racism."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you fit in [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.288723465225331, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There certainly was a camaraderie. But it wasn't the same camaraderie that I had with Americans. It still was, I don't like the word colonial, but there certainly was that angle that the British were superior and better educated. I mean, the truth is there was racism."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you fit in [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. I mean, I didn't differentiate. But the African staff also were married and had families, which made it different socially from me than with my British friends who were single who could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, most of the socialization was like in the teachers' lounge at coffee break. Like 10:00 to 10:30 in the morning or whatever the times were. And that's where the socialization was, because then once people went back to their homes, they had other obligations too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if any of the [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.876359405805924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely. I mean, I didn't differentiate. But the African staff also were married and had families, which made it different socially from me than with my British friends who were single who could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, most of the socialization was like in the teachers' lounge at coffee break. Like 10:00 to 10:30 in the morning or whatever the times were. And that's where the socialization was, because then once people went back to their homes, they had other obligations too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if any of the [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no. We would have dinner exchanges and I would be invited to their homes. I had a problem because the fact that I, with three other British, although I later ended up having a home of my own, I ate with three other British. And so for me then to invite an African family was kind of problematic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't do it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.5292882286732485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, most of the socialization was like in the teachers' lounge at coffee break. Like 10:00 to 10:30 in the morning or whatever the times were. And that's where the socialization was, because then once people went back to their homes, they had other obligations too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if any of the [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no. We would have dinner exchanges and I would be invited to their homes. I had a problem because the fact that I, with three other British, although I later ended up having a home of my own, I ate with three other British. And so for me then to invite an African family was kind of problematic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't do it. I mean, I did do it with a couple of people, but not, not with all the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were there instances where the three Brits, you [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.060849665028702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't do it. I mean, I did do it with a couple of people, but not, not with all the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were there instances where the three Brits, you [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that did happen. It's like, I didn't feel terribly uncomfortable, but I felt some discomfort, although only a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One made it clear to me that was not the style."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this again was your [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.729444030899631, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One made it clear to me that was not the style."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this again was your [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, actually, by that time I had been assigned a home. And there were three new homes that had been completed and the geography teacher had a home by himself, and then the chemistry and physics teacher shared a home. And then the biology teacher, his wife, with two children, had the other home. And so we ate in the home where the physics and the chemistry teacher roomed together. But we split the wages of the cook four ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kisumu, a major seaport in west Kenya was about 17 miles away, and that was very accessible and a lot of times somebody would be going to Kisumu so I could go in and shop. See my friend Sue Boardman, who taught biology at one of the schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you would always drive down? [inaudible]"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.307955593703248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kisumu, a major seaport in west Kenya was about 17 miles away, and that was very accessible and a lot of times somebody would be going to Kisumu so I could go in and shop. See my friend Sue Boardman, who taught biology at one of the schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you would always drive down? [inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rarely. I could go out and hitchhike, that was easy too. I could just go out and stick my thumb out and catch a ride with somebody else who was coming down from Butere or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to admit, I was really busy and so I didn't dwell on the unusual stuff so much. I really was trying to prepare and also grade papers because I really thought that students had to learn how to read and write English well. So I took that responsibility seriously. And I thought that I maybe wasn't the best teacher, but I was adequate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your other responsibilities?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.119950659670277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rarely. I could go out and hitchhike, that was easy too. I could just go out and stick my thumb out and catch a ride with somebody else who was coming down from Butere or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to admit, I was really busy and so I didn't dwell on the unusual stuff so much. I really was trying to prepare and also grade papers because I really thought that students had to learn how to read and write English well. So I took that responsibility seriously. And I thought that I maybe wasn't the best teacher, but I was adequate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your other responsibilities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was the basketball coach, I introduced basketball, in fact even helped carve out, chopped. I didn't do the chopping, but carved out a place where we made a basketball court. And our first game was against a school that had been playing basketball for quite a while and we lost 64-8. We scored one basket each quarter. And I was the scout master. And we had a newspaper that was published, certainly once a semester, and I was responsible for that. And I had the yearbook, which was published at the end of each year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were these assigned or were they volunteer?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.688834066300307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to admit, I was really busy and so I didn't dwell on the unusual stuff so much. I really was trying to prepare and also grade papers because I really thought that students had to learn how to read and write English well. So I took that responsibility seriously. And I thought that I maybe wasn't the best teacher, but I was adequate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your other responsibilities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was the basketball coach, I introduced basketball, in fact even helped carve out, chopped. I didn't do the chopping, but carved out a place where we made a basketball court. And our first game was against a school that had been playing basketball for quite a while and we lost 64-8. We scored one basket each quarter. And I was the scout master. And we had a newspaper that was published, certainly once a semester, and I was responsible for that. And I had the yearbook, which was published at the end of each year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were these assigned or were they volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were assigned by the headmaster. And then one month out of the year, one month out of the semester, we would have chapel duty. I wasn't terribly steeped in the Bible so sometimes I would read [inaudible]. And that was, that was not [inaudible] headmaster who was a missionary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were supposed to get up in front of?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.209815629222564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was the basketball coach, I introduced basketball, in fact even helped carve out, chopped. I didn't do the chopping, but carved out a place where we made a basketball court. And our first game was against a school that had been playing basketball for quite a while and we lost 64-8. We scored one basket each quarter. And I was the scout master. And we had a newspaper that was published, certainly once a semester, and I was responsible for that. And I had the yearbook, which was published at the end of each year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were these assigned or were they volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were assigned by the headmaster. And then one month out of the year, one month out of the semester, we would have chapel duty. I wasn't terribly steeped in the Bible so sometimes I would read [inaudible]. And that was, that was not [inaudible] headmaster who was a missionary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were supposed to get up in front of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three hundred students. It would be a ten or 15 minute inspirational, that's probably what we'd call it today. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about [inaudible]. During your first year, how often did you go away from the school?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.788684032469515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were assigned by the headmaster. And then one month out of the year, one month out of the semester, we would have chapel duty. I wasn't terribly steeped in the Bible so sometimes I would read [inaudible]. And that was, that was not [inaudible] headmaster who was a missionary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were supposed to get up in front of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three hundred students. It would be a ten or 15 minute inspirational, that's probably what we'd call it today. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about [inaudible]. During your first year, how often did you go away from the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I didn't go away a lot. I enjoyed the school. I enjoyed the students. I enjoyed the Brits, I enjoyed the African staff. So I didn't feel a great need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't feel [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.924301274653722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I didn't go away a lot. I enjoyed the school. I enjoyed the students. I enjoyed the Brits, I enjoyed the African staff. So I didn't feel a great need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't feel [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I felt neutral. I mean, I felt comfortable with the African staff. And I had a lot of respect for both. The teachers were very competent and very bright."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were teachers from East Africa with the exception of the headmaster, of course, who came out of the Anglican Church. And then the biology teacher also was Anglican missionary. And then there was another missionary who was on leave. So there were three missionaries still left over from the old colonial days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.471445860726357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I felt neutral. I mean, I felt comfortable with the African staff. And I had a lot of respect for both. The teachers were very competent and very bright."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were teachers from East Africa with the exception of the headmaster, of course, who came out of the Anglican Church. And then the biology teacher also was Anglican missionary. And then there was another missionary who was on leave. So there were three missionaries still left over from the old colonial days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the only, the only one was when [inaudible]. Students were very considerate, thoughtful, thankful, appreciative, respectful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the size of the class?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.754871432995502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the only, the only one was when [inaudible]. Students were very considerate, thoughtful, thankful, appreciative, respectful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the size of the class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty students in a class, at least in forms 3 and 4. And they did their homework. If they had questions, they would say, I don't understand, can you explain? Just tremendous respect. Teachers were really in an elevated position at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was certainly adequately staffed. Probably an old country schoolhouse with the description of the old wooden desks, a row of 30, whatever. Six rows with five desks each. And there was a blackboard, chalk. And no electricity. I mean, there was electricity, but at night. But buildings kind of latched, you know, where you had daylight, but then you'd close it down at night to not let the mosquitos in and keep the lights on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so the students had textbooks. Do they work out of exercise books?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.505412703328336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty students in a class, at least in forms 3 and 4. And they did their homework. If they had questions, they would say, I don't understand, can you explain? Just tremendous respect. Teachers were really in an elevated position at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was certainly adequately staffed. Probably an old country schoolhouse with the description of the old wooden desks, a row of 30, whatever. Six rows with five desks each. And there was a blackboard, chalk. And no electricity. I mean, there was electricity, but at night. But buildings kind of latched, you know, where you had daylight, but then you'd close it down at night to not let the mosquitos in and keep the lights on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so the students had textbooks. Do they work out of exercise books?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. What we would, when we would take an exam. Blue books I think is what we called them. And that's, that's basically what they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during the first year [inaudible]."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 9.265941609047328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. What we would, when we would take an exam. Blue books I think is what we called them. And that's, that's basically what they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during the first year [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The doctor? Maybe. I mean, I didn't have a lot of visitors. I don't know why that was. You know, whether because I was surviving and things seemingly were going okay or what. I don't know. I certainly knew that I was supported and if I needed someone, I could. We did have a phone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew that folks were accessible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so you didn't [inaudible]."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.6288240100525853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The doctor? Maybe. I mean, I didn't have a lot of visitors. I don't know why that was. You know, whether because I was surviving and things seemingly were going okay or what. I don't know. I certainly knew that I was supported and if I needed someone, I could. We did have a phone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew that folks were accessible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so you didn't [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not. In fact, I remember, I remember the physics and chemistry teacher had a motorcycle. BMW, I think. And they taught me how to ride it. Wednesdays we didn't teach in the afternoon. And he said, why don't you go over to whatever, 20 or 30 miles away there was a Peace Corps volunteer. He said, take the bike. I took the darn thing over and skidded. Took a lot of skin off and it was a stupid thing for me to do, not being very competent. So anyway, I got the bike up to Majengo and then somebody, the government, a Land Rover, came by and took me back to the school. It took three baths to wash the stone grit out. And then I took a bottle of rubbing alcohol.\n\nAnd the nurse when she discovered what had happened, she realized I'd done the right thing, but was amazed that I could tolerate that much pain because I was, I had a lot of spots where I poured the alcohol."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The nurse at school?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.920915566725095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew that folks were accessible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so you didn't [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not. In fact, I remember, I remember the physics and chemistry teacher had a motorcycle. BMW, I think. And they taught me how to ride it. Wednesdays we didn't teach in the afternoon. And he said, why don't you go over to whatever, 20 or 30 miles away there was a Peace Corps volunteer. He said, take the bike. I took the darn thing over and skidded. Took a lot of skin off and it was a stupid thing for me to do, not being very competent. So anyway, I got the bike up to Majengo and then somebody, the government, a Land Rover, came by and took me back to the school. It took three baths to wash the stone grit out. And then I took a bottle of rubbing alcohol.\n\nAnd the nurse when she discovered what had happened, she realized I'd done the right thing, but was amazed that I could tolerate that much pain because I was, I had a lot of spots where I poured the alcohol."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The nurse at school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the nurse at school, the biology teacher's wife was a nurse. And then she got some salve for me and some gauze. And then finally, about a week later, a Peace Corps doctor came out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wasn't there a policy [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.245461740805661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not. In fact, I remember, I remember the physics and chemistry teacher had a motorcycle. BMW, I think. And they taught me how to ride it. Wednesdays we didn't teach in the afternoon. And he said, why don't you go over to whatever, 20 or 30 miles away there was a Peace Corps volunteer. He said, take the bike. I took the darn thing over and skidded. Took a lot of skin off and it was a stupid thing for me to do, not being very competent. So anyway, I got the bike up to Majengo and then somebody, the government, a Land Rover, came by and took me back to the school. It took three baths to wash the stone grit out. And then I took a bottle of rubbing alcohol.\n\nAnd the nurse when she discovered what had happened, she realized I'd done the right thing, but was amazed that I could tolerate that much pain because I was, I had a lot of spots where I poured the alcohol."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The nurse at school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the nurse at school, the biology teacher's wife was a nurse. And then she got some salve for me and some gauze. And then finally, about a week later, a Peace Corps doctor came out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wasn't there a policy [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There probably was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] As you're coming to the end of the first year, what was your sense of [inaudible]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.606068600895179, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the nurse at school, the biology teacher's wife was a nurse. And then she got some salve for me and some gauze. And then finally, about a week later, a Peace Corps doctor came out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wasn't there a policy [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There probably was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] As you're coming to the end of the first year, what was your sense of [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did feel good about, or at least I thought I was doing a good job of teaching. That I felt comfortable with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't get feedback from anyone else? [inaudible]"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.006742889883532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There probably was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] As you're coming to the end of the first year, what was your sense of [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did feel good about, or at least I thought I was doing a good job of teaching. That I felt comfortable with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't get feedback from anyone else? [inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nobody on staff came to observe my teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get any feedback in any way?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.835485049238928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nobody on staff came to observe my teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get any feedback in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In kind of a roundabout way. I mean, they didn't come right out say you're doing a great job. But they appreciated the fact that they were learning English or learning British Empire history, which I thought was an interesting twist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Read about the American Revolution as to how it's written by the Brits and, you know, the other, the basketball, yearbook, the newspaper, you know, the outside activities were going well and the students were seemingly enjoying those activities, which I was involved in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much informal contact with the students?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.26165005470992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In kind of a roundabout way. I mean, they didn't come right out say you're doing a great job. But they appreciated the fact that they were learning English or learning British Empire history, which I thought was an interesting twist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Read about the American Revolution as to how it's written by the Brits and, you know, the other, the basketball, yearbook, the newspaper, you know, the outside activities were going well and the students were seemingly enjoying those activities, which I was involved in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much informal contact with the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a dormitory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did? Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.026728462604839, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a dormitory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so certainly two or three times a week I would wander over in the evening just to see how they were doing and if there's anything that they needed before. And then of course, I had ten banana trees in the yard. So when bananas get ripe, you've got arms of bananas and I'd give them to all ten dorms. I just, I wouldn't give them to my dorm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Africans appreciated the extra food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the students question you about America? And do you have any sense of what their perception was of you as a Peace Corps volunteer? Did they distinguish you from the Brits?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.474142736227599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so certainly two or three times a week I would wander over in the evening just to see how they were doing and if there's anything that they needed before. And then of course, I had ten banana trees in the yard. So when bananas get ripe, you've got arms of bananas and I'd give them to all ten dorms. I just, I wouldn't give them to my dorm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Africans appreciated the extra food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the students question you about America? And do you have any sense of what their perception was of you as a Peace Corps volunteer? Did they distinguish you from the Brits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, certainly when we got into Vietnam that became an issue for the Kenyan students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is during your second year, isn't it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8601585958084437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Africans appreciated the extra food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the students question you about America? And do you have any sense of what their perception was of you as a Peace Corps volunteer? Did they distinguish you from the Brits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, certainly when we got into Vietnam that became an issue for the Kenyan students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is during your second year, isn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During my second year, yes. 1966."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How'd it become an issue?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.0605742054985505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the students just couldn't figure out what in the world was America doing in this? I mean, they saw it as a form of colonialism, I mean, which from their perspective is absolutely right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they thought it was dead wrong. And then, of course, the Congo thing was going on too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they just thought the American government was intervening inappropriately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did, I mean, did you sit down in the dorm and say, let's talk about Vietnam? Or did it come up in class?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8265764135782594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of times it would come up when I'd have time. We'd discussed the material that we covered for that day and have an extra 10 minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In class, yeah. And so I'd say, is there anything you want to talk about?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they'd say, yeah, what in the world are you folks doing in the Congo or? I don't remember what it was that happened at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I assume their language is a little bit more formal than, what are you folks doing in?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.489600510590444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they'd say, yeah, what in the world are you folks doing in the Congo or? I don't remember what it was that happened at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I assume their language is a little bit more formal than, what are you folks doing in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there certainly was a level of politeness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So that, you never had a strong expression of anti- Americanism?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8773339006560485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there certainly was a level of politeness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So that, you never had a strong expression of anti- Americanism?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or anything directed personally against you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3081487785067205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there certainly was a level of politeness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So that, you never had a strong expression of anti- Americanism?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or anything directed personally against you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In those settings, did you feel called on to try to defend America, or how did you, whatever your own feelings about the Vietnam War?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.786831976118578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or anything directed personally against you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In those settings, did you feel called on to try to defend America, or how did you, whatever your own feelings about the Vietnam War?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I was raised in a very conservative political family, and my basic source of information was Time magazine. And Time magazine supported the war so I supported the war in Vietnam. And so I defended American policy in Vietnam. Talked about the domino theory and the spread of communism."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And your students bought it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.909669106319232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I was raised in a very conservative political family, and my basic source of information was Time magazine. And Time magazine supported the war so I supported the war in Vietnam. And so I defended American policy in Vietnam. Talked about the domino theory and the spread of communism."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And your students bought it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No! They understood my point of view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they respected my being able to defend it, but they still didn't agree with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, let's jump. There must have been somewhere a long break between first and second year."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.4551878959102575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No! They understood my point of view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they respected my being able to defend it, but they still didn't agree with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, let's jump. There must have been somewhere a long break between first and second year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there are these months between."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right. Yeah. What did you do with the free time? Initially, I suppose you used it to prepare for teaching."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.500231970259577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there are these months between."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right. Yeah. What did you do with the free time? Initially, I suppose you used it to prepare for teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I also traveled, but I would find the Peace Corps said you have 30 days of vacation here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But find a project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yeah. Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.031773561380509, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Uhuru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I'm, I'm getting exposed to language and different experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I felt very enriched by having that mixture of both working in projects when I was traveling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the project?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3686372904227877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I'm, I'm getting exposed to language and different experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I felt very enriched by having that mixture of both working in projects when I was traveling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm even blocking on what I was doing, except for I was traveling with these guys who spoke fluent Swahili and they were doing something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now they tended to be based on a land settlement area?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7429303226919863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I felt very enriched by having that mixture of both working in projects when I was traveling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm even blocking on what I was doing, except for I was traveling with these guys who spoke fluent Swahili and they were doing something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now they tended to be based on a land settlement area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And their role was kind of complicated. It could have been, was it with elementary school kids or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1588114696577625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm even blocking on what I was doing, except for I was traveling with these guys who spoke fluent Swahili and they were doing something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now they tended to be based on a land settlement area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And their role was kind of complicated. It could have been, was it with elementary school kids or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought they were working with adults."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I mean, they were. But did you come in and sort of?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.620901632953069, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And their role was kind of complicated. It could have been, was it with elementary school kids or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought they were working with adults."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I mean, they were. But did you come in and sort of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was working with them. I was just kind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just following them."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.704816830806259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was working with them. I was just kind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just following them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tagging along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, that particular project was, we laughed about it being a project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That's, I mean, two interesting guys to spend time with. Again, I think I said going into the second year, you begin, you know that you're only going to be there another couple of semesters. Did you think in terms of what am I going to accomplish before I leave? Or you just knew that your teaching was it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.825537490817912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to admit, I stayed focused on the teaching part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my goal was for the students. My accomplishment was through the students accomplishing success."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By taking the Cambridge exam and doing well so they could go on to further education or some kind of career development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd been pretty adventurous in your life up to joining the Peace Corps. While you're in Kenya, I mean, you're under very comfortable circumstance. Were you at all tempted to try to reach out and learn more about the real Kenya? I mean, traditional culture of the Luo or village life or get a student to invite you to his village?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.029543883152142, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't get invited by any students, but I did get invited by a family that lived off the compound. And I don't know if that person's connection with the school other than he'd graduated from the school. But he worked like for the Agriculture Department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had a couple of times where he would invite me out to dinner and he had twin daughters who were of marriage age."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If he probably only had one daughter, I might have had a different outlook. But now I'm in a dilemma here. I don't want to offend anybody. I mean, I'm maybe jesting or misreading but. I enjoyed that contact, but I didn't pursue it beyond just the, the dinners and the camaraderie. I did try to, it only lasted for about a month because it really became time, terribly time consuming. I went out to an elementary school and tried one hour a week and it took me like an hour to get there. And I tried to teach English, but that then that was like on my Wednesday afternoon that I had off. So I only did that probably for six or seven times, maybe four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did, how did that get set up?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.967754737314649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because one of the wives of one of the Africans taught in that school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so she said, gee, if you come out to the school and do this, this would be tremendous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was through her that I knew of the school. When I said an hours, it was probably only a half an hour walk, but an hour, you know, half an hour each way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd walk out to the school."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.602166342363763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was through her that I knew of the school. When I said an hours, it was probably only a half an hour walk, but an hour, you know, half an hour each way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd walk out to the school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. And it was, it was nice, but it was, became very time consuming from what I really was trying to stay focused on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't, I didn't make a lot of inroads in the area with the African population."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was a Luo, a traditional group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.805143632547854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't, I didn't make a lot of inroads in the area with the African population."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was a Luo, a traditional group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but there was the Abaluyia, which was a Bantu versus a Nilotic language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My, my gardener happened to be a Luo, uh, Abaluyia. And I remember he lost the child through the childbirth process. And so I knew that they would have celebrations because every so often I could hear in the nighttime this wailing. And so I made sure that he had sufficient money to, for the burial and for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. You didn't you didn't try to improve your Swahili, did you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:505", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.450159591719838, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but there was the Abaluyia, which was a Bantu versus a Nilotic language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My, my gardener happened to be a Luo, uh, Abaluyia. And I remember he lost the child through the childbirth process. And so I knew that they would have celebrations because every so often I could hear in the nighttime this wailing. And so I made sure that he had sufficient money to, for the burial and for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. You didn't you didn't try to improve your Swahili, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That's not an accusation. It's just that."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.625733321975086, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm very, very honest about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Interesting, though. I made sure that I spoke with my gardener."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he did something one day. It usually rained, if it rained, it rained at 4:00 or 4:30 in the afternoon. The rains were very predictable. One day the clouds came up about 11:30 in the morning and he came trotting up with my raincoat. And these British people said, how did you train him to do that? And I said, I didn't. It's just the fact that he appreciates me and I appreciate him and he's taking care of me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the second year, had the faculty changed much? Had people come, people go?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.179917681450723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he did something one day. It usually rained, if it rained, it rained at 4:00 or 4:30 in the afternoon. The rains were very predictable. One day the clouds came up about 11:30 in the morning and he came trotting up with my raincoat. And these British people said, how did you train him to do that? And I said, I didn't. It's just the fact that he appreciates me and I appreciate him and he's taking care of me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the second year, had the faculty changed much? Had people come, people go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I mentioned, the physics teacher married an American TEA teacher. And so then she taught some of the English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was, so then the chemistry teacher. He had worked with a physics teacher, but he moved out or went back to England, because obviously the wife took his place in that household. That's still where we ate dinner. I mean, I still ate dinner with them, but there was no, there wasn't a major shift."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your health generally was okay after the initial bout you had when you arrived, generally good?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.109626449177947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I maintained very good health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except for I had my bottom, I had my wisdom teeth pulled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right just before I was ready to get out because I wanted to have it done at government expense because I had a 90 degree root on both sides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And that was done in Nairobi?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:523", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.232918276864385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except for I had my bottom, I had my wisdom teeth pulled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right just before I was ready to get out because I wanted to have it done at government expense because I had a 90 degree root on both sides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And that was done in Nairobi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. No, no, no. Kisumu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Kisumu? Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3208630953580025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he was wanting to drive me back up to the compound. I said, no, I could hitchhike, which I did. And I also had been invited over to dinner to a teacher's college, and I said, I'm really sorry, but I just had my wisdom teeth pulled. And I said, I don't think I'm going to be feeling well in a couple of hours. And so I ate soup and easy things to eat. And they took me home, a delightful couple from Winnipeg, and sure enough, I was sick for four days. This was on Wednesday afternoon, and the afternoon we had off I had my teeth pulled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I crawled over to the classroom and wrote the assignments on the board, said sick, and then went back over Friday and Saturday. By Sunday afternoon, I was back to normal. But, boy, those four days were terrible. Otherwise, no, I was not sick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I had consistently lost 25 pounds over a period of time. So I weighed 125 pounds. And I understand losing 25 pounds for a male is not abnormal in the tropical climate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. It's, uh. At the end, between the first and second year, was there a conference of the group? Were you called together? A mid-term conference it would have been called, I think."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:533", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.800958994842225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I crawled over to the classroom and wrote the assignments on the board, said sick, and then went back over Friday and Saturday. By Sunday afternoon, I was back to normal. But, boy, those four days were terrible. Otherwise, no, I was not sick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I had consistently lost 25 pounds over a period of time. So I weighed 125 pounds. And I understand losing 25 pounds for a male is not abnormal in the tropical climate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. It's, uh. At the end, between the first and second year, was there a conference of the group? Were you called together? A mid-term conference it would have been called, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we might have. By that time maybe you're gone?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so. I was out of Kenya."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.462824256732548, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a formal get together down at Mombasa or Malindi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we were ready to be discharged, probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four weeks before we got discharged."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. And that was the termination conference?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:543", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8475825074806087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we were ready to be discharged, probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four weeks before we got discharged."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. And that was the termination conference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you, that's the term I'm trying to fish for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so the whole group gathered in Malindi."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.275091674978454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four weeks before we got discharged."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. And that was the termination conference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you, that's the term I'm trying to fish for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so the whole group gathered in Malindi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is easy to take. It's a beachy resort."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:547", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.750101861087171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you, that's the term I'm trying to fish for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so the whole group gathered in Malindi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is easy to take. It's a beachy resort."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it was plush."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I gather during the two years you did not have much contact with other volunteers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.277890956763524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is easy to take. It's a beachy resort."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it was plush."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I gather during the two years you did not have much contact with other volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sporadically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, your real focus tended to, stayed within the school community."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.864323285292804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it was plush."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I gather during the two years you did not have much contact with other volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sporadically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, your real focus tended to, stayed within the school community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you come back and two years are over and you suddenly."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:555", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.005337389250375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you come back and two years are over and you suddenly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, with the exception when we'd have those month periods. Like one time I went to Nairobi and spent. The Presbyterian Church had sent a shipload of books to Kenya. So one of the projects was to support, to separate these books out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then try to catalog them in some way, shape or form. And then schools would be getting these books. And so that was one of the projects that I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you stay when you were in Nairobi?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:559", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.413996776852314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then try to catalog them in some way, shape or form. And then schools would be getting these books. And so that was one of the projects that I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you stay when you were in Nairobi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, there was a hotel that was not terribly expensive. It was within a block or two of the Peace Corps office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was within my budget."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, you were being paid a living allowance by the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.23777419650257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, there was a hotel that was not terribly expensive. It was within a block or two of the Peace Corps office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was within my budget."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, you were being paid a living allowance by the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that, did that tend to be adequate?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:563", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.041971329447302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was within my budget."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, you were being paid a living allowance by the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that, did that tend to be adequate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I, I. It would not have been enough to support a vehicle, but it was enough for me to pay for a fourth of a cook's wage, to pay for a gardener. And to save enough money to buy a Pentax camera and wide angle lens and photo lens and tripod."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were specifically forbidden from owning a vehicle?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:569", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.340152715291222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, so the $100 a month I got, and the $10 for my rent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The $110 I got, I probably was able to save 30 to 40 percent of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that deposited to your account in Maseno?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:571", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.044614128101357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, so the $100 a month I got, and the $10 for my rent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The $110 I got, I probably was able to save 30 to 40 percent of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that deposited to your account in Maseno?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that's how it works. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Let's jump back to the termination conference. And your, the group gathers now, I guess for the first time in the two years?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.82734903122373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The $110 I got, I probably was able to save 30 to 40 percent of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that deposited to your account in Maseno?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that's how it works. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Let's jump back to the termination conference. And your, the group gathers now, I guess for the first time in the two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might have really been in that break between."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yeah, okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:575", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.474832256915255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that's how it works. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Let's jump back to the termination conference. And your, the group gathers now, I guess for the first time in the two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might have really been in that break between."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Semesters, because I don't think, we didn't teach for that three or four days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Okay."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.083146952128062, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might have really been in that break between."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Semesters, because I don't think, we didn't teach for that three or four days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was in preparation for us to be prepared for culture shock going back to the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that played out? I mean."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:585", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.925997488382961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then plus the friendships that we had that were people that were in proximity. Like Sue Boardman for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sue I saw fairly frequently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was delightful in that, as you mentioned, that Malindi was plush and probably not terribly expensive in those days, but seeing the ocean and the flowers were just magnificent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The settlement group wasn't there at the same time, was it?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:587", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.695552764869957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sue I saw fairly frequently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was delightful in that, as you mentioned, that Malindi was plush and probably not terribly expensive in those days, but seeing the ocean and the flowers were just magnificent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The settlement group wasn't there at the same time, was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They were obviously having their conference at a different time, maybe at the same place, but different times. Just the teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point you at all tempted to extend for a third year?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:593", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.950003792688555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time also they, not necessarily in Kenya, but in Micronesia, they said you can spend a year in Micronesia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was tempted to do that. But I was 31."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was saying, you know, I could, I could be an adolescent all my life, live in this abnormal environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a sense that this was not the way the world really was."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:597", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.580251595911797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was saying, you know, I could, I could be an adolescent all my life, live in this abnormal environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a sense that this was not the way the world really was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I was grateful for that conference in preparation of serious culture shock when you get back to the United States because from '64 to '66 with the Vietnam, the social uprisings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it run in small groups?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:599", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.533612884346441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I was grateful for that conference in preparation of serious culture shock when you get back to the United States because from '64 to '66 with the Vietnam, the social uprisings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it run in small groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They're kind of like a big talk and then you split off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there facilitators for each group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:601", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.592903204829378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it run in small groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They're kind of like a big talk and then you split off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there facilitators for each group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it, did they tend to be lively exchanges or were people simply impatient and say, you know, I don't need to hear that, let me?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:603", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.76989244981042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They're kind of like a big talk and then you split off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there facilitators for each group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it, did they tend to be lively exchanges or were people simply impatient and say, you know, I don't need to hear that, let me?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I, at least I thought people were very receptive to what was being said in preparation for what life was going to be like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had many of the group terminated early? I mean, I don't know, you were 35 to begin."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:605", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.077658277567133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it, did they tend to be lively exchanges or were people simply impatient and say, you know, I don't need to hear that, let me?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I, at least I thought people were very receptive to what was being said in preparation for what life was going to be like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had many of the group terminated early? I mean, I don't know, you were 35 to begin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm only aware of two people quitting in midstream."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was still 30 some people."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:607", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.530731419519036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I, at least I thought people were very receptive to what was being said in preparation for what life was going to be like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had many of the group terminated early? I mean, I don't know, you were 35 to begin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm only aware of two people quitting in midstream."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was still 30 some people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember if there was discussion with the young men about the possibility of facing the draft when they came home? Because things had changed and the war had become a little more intense by then."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:611", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.939174591998807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember if there was discussion with the young men about the possibility of facing the draft when they came home? Because things had changed and the war had become a little more intense by then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It certainly was mentioned. I mean, the war was heating up, had heated up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that, you know, you. Whatever draft deferment you had before, you might not have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah.\n\nFor the experience and now being with the group, will you still in your sensitivities essentially a Republican? Had you shifted or drifted at all?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:633", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.124881171946042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My, I had left Flint and my congressman going back to Flint was Don Riegle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Don was a Republican at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In his fourth term in the House, he switched to be a Democrat because of Vietnam, and then served a fifth term as a Democrat. Fifth term in Congress, but as a Democrat. And then, of course, he ran for the U.S. Senate and won to replace Phil Hart. And of course, Senator Hart died even before the term was over. And finally Riegle became my senator for 18 years. He became a senator for 18 years. And I knew Mark Hatfield a little bit. So there are some decent Republicans still on the scope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But sitting in the termination conference or being near the end of your service, were you would at all reflective about how you had changed or what you'd gone through or what it all meant to you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:637", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.734421199933385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In his fourth term in the House, he switched to be a Democrat because of Vietnam, and then served a fifth term as a Democrat. Fifth term in Congress, but as a Democrat. And then, of course, he ran for the U.S. Senate and won to replace Phil Hart. And of course, Senator Hart died even before the term was over. And finally Riegle became my senator for 18 years. He became a senator for 18 years. And I knew Mark Hatfield a little bit. So there are some decent Republicans still on the scope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But sitting in the termination conference or being near the end of your service, were you would at all reflective about how you had changed or what you'd gone through or what it all meant to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It probably hadn't crystallized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But certainly the seeds had been planted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point then, what was your plan? I mean, obviously you were leaving Kenya in a fairly short time."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:649", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.849848242671122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she then went on to, she was married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You might not believe it, but I hardly didn't even hold hands with her in the three weeks. It's just, we were traveling companions and she'd studied Ethiopia, and so I learned a lot about it. And that's where I met, stayed at John Coyne's house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so after that three weeks, I knew what I was going to do. I was really going to make good use of those 26 stops. And time was not of the essence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you're still avoiding readjustment or coming back. Well, you finally got back to San Francisco."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:651", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.722053602967913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You might not believe it, but I hardly didn't even hold hands with her in the three weeks. It's just, we were traveling companions and she'd studied Ethiopia, and so I learned a lot about it. And that's where I met, stayed at John Coyne's house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so after that three weeks, I knew what I was going to do. I was really going to make good use of those 26 stops. And time was not of the essence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you're still avoiding readjustment or coming back. Well, you finally got back to San Francisco."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you'd been on the road for quite a while."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:655", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.422288398725819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you'd been on the road for quite a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seven and a half months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or seven months, because I still then, it took me about a week to get to Three Rivers, Michigan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So the return culture shock must have been sort of diffuse, I mean, because you."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:661", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.6986123439311624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in Hawaii, of course, all of a sudden I stayed at the Y, YMCA, and all these vets were on R&R from Vietnam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the music, the loud music. I mean, it was just a cacophony. But two people from Three Rivers, Michigan, lived in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hawaii?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honolulu. And so I had dinner with them. I had dinner with one couple, and then they took me over the other couple because I didn't know them. And so I had a more gradual coming in, but I was in shocked in Honolulu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Because of the military, because of the music, because of the mix?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:663", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.55401371547907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the music, the loud music. I mean, it was just a cacophony. But two people from Three Rivers, Michigan, lived in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hawaii?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honolulu. And so I had dinner with them. I had dinner with one couple, and then they took me over the other couple because I didn't know them. And so I had a more gradual coming in, but I was in shocked in Honolulu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Because of the military, because of the music, because of the mix?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of the above."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You finally get your, work your way back to Three Rivers."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:665", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.504459683865631, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honolulu. And so I had dinner with them. I had dinner with one couple, and then they took me over the other couple because I didn't know them. And so I had a more gradual coming in, but I was in shocked in Honolulu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Because of the military, because of the music, because of the mix?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of the above."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You finally get your, work your way back to Three Rivers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you still face the question."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:667", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.5605107598507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of the above."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You finally get your, work your way back to Three Rivers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you still face the question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in Kenya, had you done anything to find out about programs or do any job search?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:669", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.733900844278555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you still face the question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in Kenya, had you done anything to find out about programs or do any job search?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever consider trying to go to work for the Peace Corps? Was there any, ever any contact about that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:673", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.486297338615499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever consider trying to go to work for the Peace Corps? Was there any, ever any contact about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it's funny and that, because of my language not being really a good Peace Corps volunteer and not learning the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really had not really thought that I would make a good staff member. You know, I kind of deselected myself from going further."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Okay, now you're back."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:677", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.946046097056172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really had not really thought that I would make a good staff member. You know, I kind of deselected myself from going further."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Okay, now you're back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really had, other than maybe thinking of going back and teaching in Flint, Michigan, I had not given serious thought about horrendous changes. But I did, when I got back to Three Rivers, I thought, well, I want to try the political stuff. And so I did hitchhike to Washington. And spent ten days in Washington seeing Don Riegle and Bill Steiger, who was a Republican from Oshkosh, Wisconsin, who I knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because he was had young Republicans in Oshkosh, but nobody had an opening for me. Nobody was willing to extend one. So I went back to Three Rivers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had readjustment allowance, I think, which was a, you know."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:679", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.384495663395747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really had, other than maybe thinking of going back and teaching in Flint, Michigan, I had not given serious thought about horrendous changes. But I did, when I got back to Three Rivers, I thought, well, I want to try the political stuff. And so I did hitchhike to Washington. And spent ten days in Washington seeing Don Riegle and Bill Steiger, who was a Republican from Oshkosh, Wisconsin, who I knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because he was had young Republicans in Oshkosh, but nobody had an opening for me. Nobody was willing to extend one. So I went back to Three Rivers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had readjustment allowance, I think, which was a, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I'd spent that on my trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:697", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.905507654748081, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Got promoted as principal. And Howard said, Russ, what are you doing? I said, I'm going to be one of your counselors. What? And another fellow, Horance Brown, also was there. And he got introduced and said, what are you doing here? Well, I'm assigned also like Russ to be a counselor. And we ended up monitoring the cafeteria. That was our primary thrust. 1,350 students. There are five of us assigned to this duty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The principal was very grateful to have these two warm bodies to help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right in front of the cafeteria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In the initial reassignment to become a counselor, was there any sense that, do you get a sense that people thought, well, he's been in the Peace Corps, he can do anything?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:701", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.290750191047013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right in front of the cafeteria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In the initial reassignment to become a counselor, was there any sense that, do you get a sense that people thought, well, he's been in the Peace Corps, he can do anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought there was that element."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's flexible. He could adapt and adjust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you end up as a lunchroom monitor."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:711", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.588223663477809, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two were in the cafeteria and I was in the lunch line to make sure no brawls and cutting and that kind of stuff. And it was amazing. Later on, the students were really talking about serious problems through all this ruckus. And the privacy was tremendous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'd say a ninth grader, female. Jeez, I'm pregnant. I think I'm pregnant. And I'd say, go see the nurse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, whatever. The stuff, the problems kids were having."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were a counselor?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:721", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.52702613673019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I said, well, what kind of degree you have? He said, I'm still a student at the University of Michigan. And so, evolution, I'm evolving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I get introduced to Don Jake, which was social worker in Flint Central. He later supervised me. He introduced me to Frank Maple, who was a professor at the University of Michigan School of Social Work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I ended up two years later going to the University of Michigan School of Social Work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during this transition period, a year, two years. What was your perspective on the Peace Corps phase of your life? I mean, you're getting to be an old man now in your mid thirties."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:727", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.757237498944017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I also meet my wife in this process. She too was a Peace Corps volunteer in Tanzania. And we were speaking together as a panel at the International Institute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then in June of 1968, so it was a quick romance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got married. But in this time, Martin Luther King gets killed. And on the day of our wedding, Bobby Kennedy's funeral. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And the war in Vietnam is still on."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:729", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.396930554382241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then in June of 1968, so it was a quick romance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got married. But in this time, Martin Luther King gets killed. And on the day of our wedding, Bobby Kennedy's funeral. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And the war in Vietnam is still on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the war in Vietnam was just getting worse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But how does this all relate to your sense of I've been a Peace Corps volunteer? I mean, it may be hard to connect."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:735", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8366674271361316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the racial unrest. This is an inner city junior high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And 60 percent Black, 40 percent white. And certainly, again, I felt comfortable. African or European. And so I again was able to make that bridge. And so I got to know, you know, African American families as well as European families. And discovering the issue, the racial issue was not race so much as it was economic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whites that were uptight were the poor whites. And so we then tried to work on those issues to try to make the school truly integrate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Through the, um. I jumped in two directions. Uh. The third goal of the Peace Corps, of course, is that on your return that you become, you inform people about the Peace Corps point of view and possibly about the country you've been in. This is kind of a payoff. Have you done, can you, did you do any of that or have you done any of that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:745", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.262862075794901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it was in the mixing, in other words, the integration process, at this junior high school particularly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That it really. I'd come up to a Black student and say, let me rub a little bit of Africa off on you. And they would titter and they'd say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, but they knew I'd been to Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. And that was a, that was a plus."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:747", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.847624528661001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That it really. I'd come up to a Black student and say, let me rub a little bit of Africa off on you. And they would titter and they'd say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, but they knew I'd been to Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. And that was a, that was a plus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a big plus. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Okay. And did you ever get to formally teach about, I mean, either informal talks about Kenya?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:749", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.386249476290001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, but they knew I'd been to Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. And that was a, that was a plus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a big plus. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Okay. And did you ever get to formally teach about, I mean, either informal talks about Kenya?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In this junior high school, the social studies teachers would come to me and say, I'm preparing a week on Africa and could you come up and show slides or give a presentation? So that would happen within that building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Okay. Now let's jump ahead, you know, after 30 some, 40 years or whatever. What's your perspective on what, you know, the effect Peace Corps had on you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:755", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.64506101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first, as I mentioned, I got married. My wife had been a Peace Corps volunteer in Tanzania in an orphanage. And before we married, she said, you know, that experience is really affected me. And I'm thinking that maybe I'd really like to adopt and could be an African. And so in the course of our marriage, we did adopt a Korean daughter, had a biological son, and then we did adopt an African American. Actually, she's biracial."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Sue and I have been very grateful having these three children. And they get along fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seemed perfectly natural to do."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:759", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.512421, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Sue and I have been very grateful having these three children. And they get along fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seemed perfectly natural to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And certainly my politics have changed. I had to switch parties when I was, I ran for the legislature last year and did not win. But I met a fellow, and my fliers said I had been a Republican. And he said, what made you change? And I said, Nixon. He said, that's a good answer. I'll vote for you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he may have been the only one who voted for you. Um. That's kind of the end of the interview. I don't know if there's anything else you'd like to mention about Peace Corps, about your involvement."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:763", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1140999999999996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And certainly my politics have changed. I had to switch parties when I was, I ran for the legislature last year and did not win. But I met a fellow, and my fliers said I had been a Republican. And he said, what made you change? And I said, Nixon. He said, that's a good answer. I'll vote for you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he may have been the only one who voted for you. Um. That's kind of the end of the interview. I don't know if there's anything else you'd like to mention about Peace Corps, about your involvement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mentioned the word evolution, and I'm still evolving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm still changing. I'm still a student. And I'm going to be 70 in six weeks or so and I'm still young. And I attribute a lot of that to my Peace Corps experience. And I'm forever grateful. I'm grateful to you for coming out and staying, you old fart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, have you, have you had a chance to go back to Kenya?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:765", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3489999999999998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mentioned the word evolution, and I'm still evolving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm still changing. I'm still a student. And I'm going to be 70 in six weeks or so and I'm still young. And I attribute a lot of that to my Peace Corps experience. And I'm forever grateful. I'm grateful to you for coming out and staying, you old fart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, have you, have you had a chance to go back to Kenya?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, soon I would like to go back to East Africa, but we just, the kids and college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you haven't."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:767", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.61, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm still changing. I'm still a student. And I'm going to be 70 in six weeks or so and I'm still young. And I attribute a lot of that to my Peace Corps experience. And I'm forever grateful. I'm grateful to you for coming out and staying, you old fart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, have you, have you had a chance to go back to Kenya?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, soon I would like to go back to East Africa, but we just, the kids and college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you haven't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, there's not to say that the time will not come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And have you maintained any kind of contact with people from the, that you knew, the Kenyan students, staff, or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:771", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, there's not to say that the time will not come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And have you maintained any kind of contact with people from the, that you knew, the Kenyan students, staff, or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to a degree but it's not been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of people and then firm contact. We had a reunion, a 20th reunion, and I missed it. In San Francisco in 1984."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of your teaching group?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:775", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of people and then firm contact. We had a reunion, a 20th reunion, and I missed it. In San Francisco in 1984."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of your teaching group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And we didn't have a 40th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it takes a lot of energy to organize one of those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:777", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And we didn't have a 40th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it takes a lot of energy to organize one of those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'm thinking maybe I'll try to do something. I'll try to do something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you know, and in some ways, Peace Corps ex- volunteers, they're very individual people and they don't respond readily to groups."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00207:779", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it takes a lot of energy to organize one of those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'm thinking maybe I'll try to do something. I'll try to do something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you know, and in some ways, Peace Corps ex- volunteers, they're very individual people and they don't respond readily to groups."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And not everybody has put their name in the directory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, certainly not. Certainly not. Well, good. That's, uh."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00103:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 25.510495429593398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, a Gemini spacecraft is a Gemini spacecraft is a Gemini spacecraft. There were variations. There were tailored pieces of equipment for each flight, but by learning the fundamental aspects of the Titan-II booster and the Gemini spacecraft, by learning those on Gemini 7, all that knowledge transferred over to Gemini 10. On the other hand, there were very specific parts of Gemini 10 that were quite different from Gemini 7, having to do with rendezvous, which was the most complicated part of the flight, and the space walk, the EVA, which was the second.\\n\\n Can we take a quick break? [Tape recorder turned off.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think—this is just off the record—I'll just try and talk about your rendezvous and docking and also on your missions, on the training on Apollo, both on the [unclear] performance crew and then also to Apollo 11, just your recommendations, what you consider your accomplishments and maybe the challenges have been throughout your career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, God, I don't have any idea about those things, but ask away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As specific as you can get, and you probably, rather than—anyway, ask."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Thank you very much. My next question for you is, I know that on Gemini 10 you, along with John Young, performed one of the first few rendezvous and docking missions. Can you tell me a little bit about the complexities of it and what types of training and classes you took to prepare you for that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00103:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.882937027094204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had a disc come loose between two cervical vertebrae, and I had to have an operation where they take a little chunk of bone out of your hip and fuse two discs together. That kicked me off the crew and grounded me for a couple of months, and then when I returned to the selection pool, I guess you would call it, I happened to come along about the time for Apollo 11. So, let's see. The knit-one-pearl-two theory would have said—I wasn't back-up. I would have been—I don't know. Anyway, I ended up on 11."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Almost a fortunate turn of events."}, {"role": "user", "content": "…That's an interesting question, the historical importance of Apollo 8 versus Apollo 11. To summarize that, I think Apollo 8 was about leaving and Apollo 11 was about arriving, leaving Earth and arriving at the moon. As you look back 100 years from now, which is more important, the idea that people left their home planet or the idea that people arrived at their nearby satellite? I'm not sure, but I think probably you would say Apollo 8 was of more significance than Apollo 11, even though today we regard Apollo 11 as being the showpiece and the zenith of the Apollo Program, rightfully so, because that was President [John F.] Kennedy's mandate, to, as he said, land a man on the moon, not two or not a woman, but just a man on the moon. So that was the focus, and when that was done by Apollo 11, then that naturally put Apollo 11 up on a pedestal, but, as I say, 100 years from now, historians may say Apollo 8 is more significant; it's more significant to leave than it is to arrive. That's all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's a very interesting way of describing it. I'd like to go back a little bit to Apollo 8. I believe you served as Capcom on that flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it would be the first Capcom to have told the crew that they were ready to go for TLI [Translunar Injection]?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00103:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.788046070864507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, space flight is such that you're hardly ever—not until the thing splashes on the water and the parachute collapse around it, not until them are you allowed the luxury of relaxing. So the fact that it had done this wonderful thing, that it had gotten going to escape velocity, that it was leaving the Earth, you couldn't sit back and pat yourself on the head and say, \"Isn't that wonderful. We've done that thing.\" I mean, this is just another little link in the chain. So your whole attitude is looking forward, \"Jesus, what next?\" I won't say that it added to the feeling of tension or apprehension, but it certainly did not diminish it, the fact that it was on its way. \"Oh, my God, it's on its way. We can't just bring it back. It's got to go do its thing.\" So I think how to put that in perspective, it was just a feeling of a greater awareness of the larger responsibility that this flight, the chunk that they had bitten off, that we were actually leaving and going. You know, it was venturing off into a new area. It was scary in that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds quite significant as well. You were a very big part of history in that respect."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like to move on a little bit to Apollo 11. I have so many questions I'd like to ask you, although I'm sure you've been asked everything that can possibly be asked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, but you could still fool me. I'm here to be tricked. Go ahead and try."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you're not here to be tricked."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00103:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.98671785651612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like to move on a little bit to Apollo 11. I have so many questions I'd like to ask you, although I'm sure you've been asked everything that can possibly be asked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, but you could still fool me. I'm here to be tricked. Go ahead and try."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you're not here to be tricked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I apologize in advance if I'm too repetitive, but I'd like also to use this as an opportunity for you to talk about some things that maybe you feel haven't been talked about before and that maybe are relevant to [unclear]."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00103:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 24.42968650724013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, but you could still fool me. I'm here to be tricked. Go ahead and try."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you're not here to be tricked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I apologize in advance if I'm too repetitive, but I'd like also to use this as an opportunity for you to talk about some things that maybe you feel haven't been talked about before and that maybe are relevant to [unclear]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But my first question is, what was training like, knowing that you perhaps were going to be the first crew to land on the moon?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00103:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.699651674711255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I apologize in advance if I'm too repetitive, but I'd like also to use this as an opportunity for you to talk about some things that maybe you feel haven't been talked about before and that maybe are relevant to [unclear]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But my first question is, what was training like, knowing that you perhaps were going to be the first crew to land on the moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I tend to compare Apollo 11 with Gemini 10 because those are the two flights that I made, and I put Gemini 10 in the context of being certainly an important event, but sort of like an important sporting event, maybe, say like a championship middle-weight fight or something like that. It was important, but there it was.\\n\\n Apollo 11, on the other hand, was taken out of the sporting event category and put in the category of not even a national event, whereas Gemini may have been more national, Apollo could have international implications, and it was obviously—it sounds trite and hackneyed, but it was a historical milestone. It was of importance to the people of the world, I think, whereas I don't think Gemini necessarily was, not to all people in the world. I mean, certain people either didn't know about it or didn't care about going to the moon, but it was of some importance to people in virtually every little corner of the globe, and I felt that very keenly, and I felt that in a negative sense as well as a positive. The negative was, hey, don't screw it up. I mean, I felt a tremendous feeling of, you know, I could make some stupid little mistake and just make the whole program look ridiculous in the eyes of the whole globe. So I felt a heightened feeling of responsibility and worry because of the responsibility. I guess that's how I felt about the training of Apollo 11."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you also had a heck of a lot of simulator time. Did you find that you spent most days in preparation in the simulator or were you doing other activities?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00103:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 25.802828686327242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think that was baloney. I mean, the chances of one object hitting another launched from two different parts of the Earth going in two different, separate trajectories around the moon, different angles, time phasing, one thing and another, the chances of those two machines colliding are much less than the chances of one of the two of them getting hit by an asteroid, for example, and I don't remember anybody getting all in a swivet because we were going to get hit by an asteroid or meteorite or whatever. So I think it was a public relations or a political necessity, perhaps, to voice some concern about collisions. I think they sent—didn't they send Borman to Russia or something to work out details? You know, that was all pretty much, from a technical point of view, eyewash."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like to ask you a little bit about once you returned from Apollo 11, because I'd like to talk to you more about Apollo 11 itself. It seems so well documented that [unclear]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I'd like to ask you about what happened during your—I guess it would be your landing, recovery, once you got into your BIG garments, the Biological Isolation Garments."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And into the mobile quarantine facility. What was it like to go through that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00103:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.16297620229727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the whole thing with the LRL, Lunar Receiving Laboratory, they had a colony of I don't know how many white mice, and they exposed them to the moon rocks and to us. Had there been some strange malady, maybe these mice's grandparents had some genetic defect or something, I don't know, but had the mice all sickened, jeez, I hate to thing about it. We'd be in that building today. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I ask what it was like in the MQF, Mobile Quarantine Facility, once you were transferred?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fine. I mean, it was a happy little home. These people are there. There were three of us plus two. We had the doctor and the engineer, John [Hirasaki]...Anyway, Bill Carpentier was the physician and John [Hirasaki]…Anyway, we were there, five people happy as clams to be in a confined space. It's not that confined. It's like living in a trailer for—we were in it for, I don't know, a day? That's about all. So it was no problem. We had gin on board, had steaks. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There you go. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What the hell? I could have stayed in there a lot longer. That was fine. And a hot shower. That was the main thing, really, because I love hot showers, and, of course, there's not one on the command module. I was grubby and glad to be back. Hot shower, gin, and steak. Wow!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all a man can ask for."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00103:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.2921957803303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fine. I mean, it was a happy little home. These people are there. There were three of us plus two. We had the doctor and the engineer, John [Hirasaki]...Anyway, Bill Carpentier was the physician and John [Hirasaki]…Anyway, we were there, five people happy as clams to be in a confined space. It's not that confined. It's like living in a trailer for—we were in it for, I don't know, a day? That's about all. So it was no problem. We had gin on board, had steaks. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There you go. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What the hell? I could have stayed in there a lot longer. That was fine. And a hot shower. That was the main thing, really, because I love hot showers, and, of course, there's not one on the command module. I was grubby and glad to be back. Hot shower, gin, and steak. Wow!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all a man can ask for."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, if someone had said to me, \"You can have either a hot shower or a gin martini or a steak,\" it would have been easy to say, \"I don't want the steak.\" But the choice between the gin martini and the hot shower, I don't know what I would have done. It would have been close, very close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then I think you proceeded on to the Lunar Receiving Laboratory here in Houston?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00103:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.546884200367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What the hell? I could have stayed in there a lot longer. That was fine. And a hot shower. That was the main thing, really, because I love hot showers, and, of course, there's not one on the command module. I was grubby and glad to be back. Hot shower, gin, and steak. Wow!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all a man can ask for."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, if someone had said to me, \"You can have either a hot shower or a gin martini or a steak,\" it would have been easy to say, \"I don't want the steak.\" But the choice between the gin martini and the hot shower, I don't know what I would have done. It would have been close, very close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then I think you proceeded on to the Lunar Receiving Laboratory here in Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "LRL, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I ask how long did you stay there and what types of things -"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00103:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.71876022263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, if someone had said to me, \"You can have either a hot shower or a gin martini or a steak,\" it would have been easy to say, \"I don't want the steak.\" But the choice between the gin martini and the hot shower, I don't know what I would have done. It would have been close, very close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then I think you proceeded on to the Lunar Receiving Laboratory here in Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "LRL, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I ask how long did you stay there and what types of things -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe the rule was—we had to be in isolation, I believe, twenty-one days from the time we left the moon. So if you subtract the transit time back and the MQF time—I just don't remember anymore, but it seems like my numbers must be wrong, because I have the feeling we spent eight or nine days in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory. It must have been longer than that, or maybe I don't remember the quarantine period, but I want to say there was a twenty- or twenty-one day quarantine, but it doesn't seem—I don't know. I've forgotten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From what I've read, they said twenty-one days from the time of the lunar landing."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00103:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.9097335807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "LRL, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I ask how long did you stay there and what types of things -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe the rule was—we had to be in isolation, I believe, twenty-one days from the time we left the moon. So if you subtract the transit time back and the MQF time—I just don't remember anymore, but it seems like my numbers must be wrong, because I have the feeling we spent eight or nine days in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory. It must have been longer than that, or maybe I don't remember the quarantine period, but I want to say there was a twenty- or twenty-one day quarantine, but it doesn't seem—I don't know. I've forgotten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From what I've read, they said twenty-one days from the time of the lunar landing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That sounds like what I just said, but somehow—because then from that you subtract four days and another five. So that would have been sixteen days in the LRL. It doesn't seem like it was that long. Maybe it was. But again, it was fine. No problem. We had comfortable rooms, good food. We had to write post-flight reports anyway, so it wasn't as if some horrible injustice had been done to us or anything like that. It was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems that after that, I'm sure you were swamped with press conferences and photo opportunities and a trip around the world to meet various dignitaries."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00103:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.344148423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe the rule was—we had to be in isolation, I believe, twenty-one days from the time we left the moon. So if you subtract the transit time back and the MQF time—I just don't remember anymore, but it seems like my numbers must be wrong, because I have the feeling we spent eight or nine days in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory. It must have been longer than that, or maybe I don't remember the quarantine period, but I want to say there was a twenty- or twenty-one day quarantine, but it doesn't seem—I don't know. I've forgotten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From what I've read, they said twenty-one days from the time of the lunar landing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That sounds like what I just said, but somehow—because then from that you subtract four days and another five. So that would have been sixteen days in the LRL. It doesn't seem like it was that long. Maybe it was. But again, it was fine. No problem. We had comfortable rooms, good food. We had to write post-flight reports anyway, so it wasn't as if some horrible injustice had been done to us or anything like that. It was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems that after that, I'm sure you were swamped with press conferences and photo opportunities and a trip around the world to meet various dignitaries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like, and how did that impact your work as well as your outlook on what you had done?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00103:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You should. You should. He's a wonderful guy. He has a wonderful sense of humor, and he was in the middle of this from a PR point of view. I can remember Julian was one of the guys who worked out the wording, \"Here men from Planet Earth landed and when we came, blah, blah, blah, July of 1969 A.D., we came in peace for all mankind.\" I think Julian wrote that, or one of his people did, and then he had to clear it with the White House. He was over there talking to somebody on the Nixon staff, and they said, \"Well, I don't see anything in there about God. You know the President's big on God.\" [Laughter] So you ought to ask Julian about that.\\n\\n But before the flight, see, we were so beset with technical details, that if someone had said, \"Hey, we're going to put a plaque on the LM,\" we'd have said, \"Fine.\"\\n\\n \"It's going to have your name on it.\"\\n\\n \"Fine.\"\\n\\n \"It's going to say this.\"\\n\\n \"Fine. I don't give a damn. Give me something important.\"\\n\\n So even though it may seem important from a historical or public affairs point of view, it did not loom large. [Its wording couldn't kill us.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of my questions for you is going to be to ask you if you have any ideas of other people that we can interview and people that you think are important to the history of the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'd sure put Julian on the list. Off the top of my head, he's the only one I can think of. You would know better than I, I think. I don't have any—no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think he might be a good addition [unclear]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's a good fellow. You ought to talk to him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My next two questions concern mostly what you think about your career, both at NASA and otherwise. I'll just ask you, first of all, what you think your accomplishments were and especially what your greatest accomplishments were."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00848:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 112.83415351080752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a secretary in the beginning, which was [in] September 1959, I think [it was that] I went there. There was one fellow named Ed Kerrigan, who was transferred to me. He had been working with the office responsible for [establishing] tracking stations. They had needed to work with the State Department to get permission to build tracking stations around the world, and he was the guy they had doing that. So he was transferred to me, because there had been no proper place for him.\\n\\n Then through the years, we had to continue adding people as more of these programs developed, and I think we ended up with some thirty people. We tried to keep it down. I had some prejudices against government payrolls and bureaucracy and so on. So we tried to keep it down. But we eventually ended up with—I don’t know how many foreign satellites NASA ultimately launched, but it had to be over forty, maybe fifty. I don’t know. [And with other types of cooperative programs, we needed more people.]\\n\\n There were [in fact] many other programs that developed, which … were non-satellite [or didn’t involve activities in space itself by other partners]—like SITE [the Satellite Instructional Television Experiment], [an] Indian program, or Landsat observations and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us about the process, once the nation contacted NASA and said, “We’d like to have a cooperative agreement,” how that took place? Because not only did you have to cooperate with that nation, you also had to do cooperation within our government agencies as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So could you explain what that process was and what your role was and how all those steps were taken?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it differed in different cases. Should I give you some examples, different examples?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be great."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00848:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 52.583628600000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I cannot remember anything about that. I know I did it. Let’s say I spent some time working with Homer Newell. I’m not even clear on what I was working on in memory. …There was a staff that had worked with Bob [Robert C.] Seamans, and it involved Wyatt, DeMarquis [D.] Wyatt, D. D. Wyatt, and another man [or two]…. They were doing … management analysis on programs for Seamans, as I thought. Now, Seamans left, and Newell got more into that area. He asked me, he or whoever was the administrator at the time, I honestly don’t remember—did you have dates on it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t believe I do, but maybe if we visit again I can send you some information and we can try that find that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He asked me to come over and help on what it [was] they were doing, but I don’t remember exactly what they were doing. I do know that it didn’t work out. It did not work out, and I honestly don’t know the reasons.\\n\\n …Wyatt had been doing this job himself. Whatever the job was, he had been doing it himself, and he did not take kindly to my coming in from outside with no real background in it. I had no background in financial management at all or program management, none…. I don’t know exactly how we resolved it, but I’d have to say that it was a mistake to put me there, that I did not have the background for it, and probably everybody was happy [with] my going back to the international [arena]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of which, one of your accomplishments was the negotiations with the Soviets regarding Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project, ASTP]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’d like to start with that, and you can tell us how far back that those negotiations started and what your role was to help."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00848:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 58.426254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He asked me to come over and help on what it [was] they were doing, but I don’t remember exactly what they were doing. I do know that it didn’t work out. It did not work out, and I honestly don’t know the reasons.\\n\\n …Wyatt had been doing this job himself. Whatever the job was, he had been doing it himself, and he did not take kindly to my coming in from outside with no real background in it. I had no background in financial management at all or program management, none…. I don’t know exactly how we resolved it, but I’d have to say that it was a mistake to put me there, that I did not have the background for it, and probably everybody was happy [with] my going back to the international [arena]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of which, one of your accomplishments was the negotiations with the Soviets regarding Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project, ASTP]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’d like to start with that, and you can tell us how far back that those negotiations started and what your role was to help."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you want to talk generally about cooperation with the Soviets, or do you want to talk about the Apollo-Soyuz thing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s start with the general negotiation."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00848:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.6, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, all the joint operations in their capsule. We put men up there. It was a lot of money, anyhow. But [there] wouldn’t have been a dime in my time. … Now, I admit that we were working during the cold war and [that it’s] different [now], but it would not have happened. I don’t believe in that kind of dollar cooperation. I mean dollar-paid cooperation. You don’t pay people to cooperate with you. If it had been insisted on, I would have resigned…. I would not have been identified with that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, there’s so much more that you did that we would like to talk to you about, but our time for the day is here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Goodness sake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We don’t want to keep you from your other appointments."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I’m going to call my luncheon date right now, if I can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly can, and we’ll just close for today. Then maybe we can have a chance to visit again in the future, but thank you for today."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00848:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I’m going to call my luncheon date right now, if I can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly can, and we’ll just close for today. Then maybe we can have a chance to visit again in the future, but thank you for today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re very welcome. One reason I have been so willing to speak at length and cooperate is I have just been asked by Kathy [Kathryn C.] Thornton. Do you know [her]?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She lives in Charlottesville [Virginia]. She teaches at the University of Virginia. She’s just asked me to give a course. It’s going to be on the international space program. It’s just a few lectures [in] an institute for senior citizens that [is] identified with the University of Virginia. So I’m going to do that next year. [I’ve done an outline of] just a couple of pages … and thought this would be [a] useful rehearsal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. You’ll have a transcript of this, so you’ll be able to use it for everything."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.309253676270226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Retired in 2000. I retired in 2004. And I have an avocado grove I take care of. I raise flowers and take care of a grandson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where is it that you're living now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived in Valley Center, California. It's north of San Diego, about an hour and a half. God's country for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, actually, it's pretty nice out there. I know. And now what? I want you to think about the year before you joined the Peace Corps, how did you happen to hear about it and how did you happen to decide to go with it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was really a fluke. I was in college and it was in my sophomore year and I was tired of school and saw this flier, Peace Corps. I looked at and I said, I’ll send an application. So I sent an application in and heard nothing. Another application came in, filled that form out. It went on like that. And here comes an offer to go to Bolivia, you know, and of course, I had another offer to go to the Bering Sea with the Alaska Department Fish and Game. And I tried to postpone going to Bolivia and they say, it's either now or not. So I went to Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you did you have a hard time making that decision?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.78805964030025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lived in Valley Center, California. It's north of San Diego, about an hour and a half. God's country for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, actually, it's pretty nice out there. I know. And now what? I want you to think about the year before you joined the Peace Corps, how did you happen to hear about it and how did you happen to decide to go with it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was really a fluke. I was in college and it was in my sophomore year and I was tired of school and saw this flier, Peace Corps. I looked at and I said, I’ll send an application. So I sent an application in and heard nothing. Another application came in, filled that form out. It went on like that. And here comes an offer to go to Bolivia, you know, and of course, I had another offer to go to the Bering Sea with the Alaska Department Fish and Game. And I tried to postpone going to Bolivia and they say, it's either now or not. So I went to Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you did you have a hard time making that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was the hardest part was I had to make it and I made it because it was definitely a place I never imagined they'd ever go, you know. I had been to Alaska. So I jumped in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did your family think, they decided to go in the Peace Corps and your friend?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.43117737811139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was really a fluke. I was in college and it was in my sophomore year and I was tired of school and saw this flier, Peace Corps. I looked at and I said, I’ll send an application. So I sent an application in and heard nothing. Another application came in, filled that form out. It went on like that. And here comes an offer to go to Bolivia, you know, and of course, I had another offer to go to the Bering Sea with the Alaska Department Fish and Game. And I tried to postpone going to Bolivia and they say, it's either now or not. So I went to Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you did you have a hard time making that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was the hardest part was I had to make it and I made it because it was definitely a place I never imagined they'd ever go, you know. I had been to Alaska. So I jumped in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did your family think, they decided to go in the Peace Corps and your friend?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my family. Yeah, my mother would always say if you want to do it. And so there was no problem. There wasn’t even hesitation on their part. And to my friends, they said, what are you doing? And I don't I don't know, but I’m going to try it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a plan."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.2568637534571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was the hardest part was I had to make it and I made it because it was definitely a place I never imagined they'd ever go, you know. I had been to Alaska. So I jumped in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did your family think, they decided to go in the Peace Corps and your friend?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my family. Yeah, my mother would always say if you want to do it. And so there was no problem. There wasn’t even hesitation on their part. And to my friends, they said, what are you doing? And I don't I don't know, but I’m going to try it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a plan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well planned out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were you studying in college?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.28540417050789, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my family. Yeah, my mother would always say if you want to do it. And so there was no problem. There wasn’t even hesitation on their part. And to my friends, they said, what are you doing? And I don't I don't know, but I’m going to try it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a plan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well planned out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were you studying in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, civil engineering. It was then and I did eventually graduate as a civil engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you put in your application, did you ask for any specific country or place?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.317115745008763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well planned out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were you studying in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, civil engineering. It was then and I did eventually graduate as a civil engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you put in your application, did you ask for any specific country or place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I asked for South America because I have a Spanish background and that would be the only reason. No, I think I did, but no specific country, just the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so what tell me a little bit about the project, what you were invited to do? Well, just like just about the project, because I want to talk about training as well."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.907906383343068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, civil engineering. It was then and I did eventually graduate as a civil engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you put in your application, did you ask for any specific country or place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I asked for South America because I have a Spanish background and that would be the only reason. No, I think I did, but no specific country, just the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so what tell me a little bit about the project, what you were invited to do? Well, just like just about the project, because I want to talk about training as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were the project we ended up going to was in Cochabamba, the valley of Cochabama. And I had to do with animal husbandry and dairy in the United States, no, the UN had to build a processing plant to plant the field. And it was produced it was designed to produce about 20 thousand liters of milk a day. And they were only getting like three or four. And they wanted some way of bringing it up. And so somebody got the idea of let's have somebody in this case volunteers, you know, try to encourage dairying. And so this we went down there to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me a little bit about the training. When you when you first went into the Peace Corps, what were you expecting or different than you were expecting or what was your impression?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.824575781905022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were the project we ended up going to was in Cochabamba, the valley of Cochabama. And I had to do with animal husbandry and dairy in the United States, no, the UN had to build a processing plant to plant the field. And it was produced it was designed to produce about 20 thousand liters of milk a day. And they were only getting like three or four. And they wanted some way of bringing it up. And so somebody got the idea of let's have somebody in this case volunteers, you know, try to encourage dairying. And so this we went down there to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me a little bit about the training. When you when you first went into the Peace Corps, what were you expecting or different than you were expecting or what was your impression?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no expectations, you know, and I'd never been any kind of training, a formal group, you know, so I went along with the flow. You know, we had some language training that was logical. There would be language training. And there was some, you know, training. We lived with the Indians. I guess that was the experience, a little bit more of a different culture. The training, a lot of the training wasn't really relevant. We had advisers or people who had lived in Bolivia and there are U.S. Ag people come back and they gave us talks about what to expect. And I don't think they ever went out of the country because it was different, you know, but it didn't make any difference with important when you really got down there, what they could have done in the States, you know, it wouldn’t have made any difference. The environment was just different. You had to just say go with flow and that's what you did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So overall, what did you think of the training in Arizona?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the Indians. That was probably be the harshest food they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little bit about what you actually did in the training?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.471750868783356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no expectations, you know, and I'd never been any kind of training, a formal group, you know, so I went along with the flow. You know, we had some language training that was logical. There would be language training. And there was some, you know, training. We lived with the Indians. I guess that was the experience, a little bit more of a different culture. The training, a lot of the training wasn't really relevant. We had advisers or people who had lived in Bolivia and there are U.S. Ag people come back and they gave us talks about what to expect. And I don't think they ever went out of the country because it was different, you know, but it didn't make any difference with important when you really got down there, what they could have done in the States, you know, it wouldn’t have made any difference. The environment was just different. You had to just say go with flow and that's what you did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So overall, what did you think of the training in Arizona?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the Indians. That was probably be the harshest food they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little bit about what you actually did in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they try to teach us how to construct, you know, in this case was chicken pens, you know, chicken barns or something like that. We built little buildings and, you know, just built a large free range chicken pens, you know, and and then, you know, they did teach us. Then we went in town, we had classes in the shop, metalwork and have some idea of tools. But that was basically it. Got my teeth fixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the next phase?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.079723187537063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the Indians. That was probably be the harshest food they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little bit about what you actually did in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they try to teach us how to construct, you know, in this case was chicken pens, you know, chicken barns or something like that. We built little buildings and, you know, just built a large free range chicken pens, you know, and and then, you know, they did teach us. Then we went in town, we had classes in the shop, metalwork and have some idea of tools. But that was basically it. Got my teeth fixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the next phase?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was Mayaguez, Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, Arecibo first, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.2712631944902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was Mayaguez, Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, Arecibo first, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well that’s still Puerto Rico, Arecibo. Oh I think this was Camp Crozier?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Crozier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They try to teach us how to learn to swim. I never learned I still don't know how to swim. But, you know, I think the the instruction there I was I don't think it would be interesting if you learned it or got were proficient and whatever they're trying to teach it is if you're willing to try it, because there were people who you know, they're like the team we had to repair of dams. You know, some of the girls have been doing just that. One girl from South Carolina, I forget her name. She freaked out. Yeah. No way could you get her to the edge. You know, I think all that counted against her, anybody who really wasn't willing to give it a try, they didn't care if you did well or want to do it, you know, unless that was just to see, you know, what you're willing to try at. But that was, again, big thing outdoors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the heights?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.85695910498911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well that’s still Puerto Rico, Arecibo. Oh I think this was Camp Crozier?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Crozier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They try to teach us how to learn to swim. I never learned I still don't know how to swim. But, you know, I think the the instruction there I was I don't think it would be interesting if you learned it or got were proficient and whatever they're trying to teach it is if you're willing to try it, because there were people who you know, they're like the team we had to repair of dams. You know, some of the girls have been doing just that. One girl from South Carolina, I forget her name. She freaked out. Yeah. No way could you get her to the edge. You know, I think all that counted against her, anybody who really wasn't willing to give it a try, they didn't care if you did well or want to do it, you know, unless that was just to see, you know, what you're willing to try at. But that was, again, big thing outdoors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the heights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the height was the same thing, just to see, you know. They broke it out to your ability. My ability was such that I had to go with the girls. But again, with the same thing. I remember when they were sorting us out. Nieblas, go with the girls. Anyway, it was again it seemed to go on. The time you spend overnight will make the hikes, you know, because in actuality, actuality, when we got to Bolivia we never did any of that stuff. I didn't sleep out in the countryside. It was never even proposed to sleep out in the countryside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about Mayaguez?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.396621227765678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They try to teach us how to learn to swim. I never learned I still don't know how to swim. But, you know, I think the the instruction there I was I don't think it would be interesting if you learned it or got were proficient and whatever they're trying to teach it is if you're willing to try it, because there were people who you know, they're like the team we had to repair of dams. You know, some of the girls have been doing just that. One girl from South Carolina, I forget her name. She freaked out. Yeah. No way could you get her to the edge. You know, I think all that counted against her, anybody who really wasn't willing to give it a try, they didn't care if you did well or want to do it, you know, unless that was just to see, you know, what you're willing to try at. But that was, again, big thing outdoors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the heights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the height was the same thing, just to see, you know. They broke it out to your ability. My ability was such that I had to go with the girls. But again, with the same thing. I remember when they were sorting us out. Nieblas, go with the girls. Anyway, it was again it seemed to go on. The time you spend overnight will make the hikes, you know, because in actuality, actuality, when we got to Bolivia we never did any of that stuff. I didn't sleep out in the countryside. It was never even proposed to sleep out in the countryside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about Mayaguez?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mayaguez. That was the university that was more practical because of the Ag school. And they gave us classes and, you know, in different tropical fruits, animal husbandry, really pigs, some cows there also, and just some of the, you know, foods and stuff, you know, of Latin America. That was the most practical. Other than the language part. Good exposure to Latin countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after you got done with Puerto Rico, then what happened?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.88513469751742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the height was the same thing, just to see, you know. They broke it out to your ability. My ability was such that I had to go with the girls. But again, with the same thing. I remember when they were sorting us out. Nieblas, go with the girls. Anyway, it was again it seemed to go on. The time you spend overnight will make the hikes, you know, because in actuality, actuality, when we got to Bolivia we never did any of that stuff. I didn't sleep out in the countryside. It was never even proposed to sleep out in the countryside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about Mayaguez?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mayaguez. That was the university that was more practical because of the Ag school. And they gave us classes and, you know, in different tropical fruits, animal husbandry, really pigs, some cows there also, and just some of the, you know, foods and stuff, you know, of Latin America. That was the most practical. Other than the language part. Good exposure to Latin countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after you got done with Puerto Rico, then what happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then you come home. Regroup and then we had to go to Vermont. That was the Cuban Missile Crisis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we got to Miami, that was the Cuban Missile Crisis?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.539038552797134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mayaguez. That was the university that was more practical because of the Ag school. And they gave us classes and, you know, in different tropical fruits, animal husbandry, really pigs, some cows there also, and just some of the, you know, foods and stuff, you know, of Latin America. That was the most practical. Other than the language part. Good exposure to Latin countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after you got done with Puerto Rico, then what happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then you come home. Regroup and then we had to go to Vermont. That was the Cuban Missile Crisis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we got to Miami, that was the Cuban Missile Crisis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, then we had to go to Vermont. I actually liked that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going to Vermont?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.043376169774593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then you come home. Regroup and then we had to go to Vermont. That was the Cuban Missile Crisis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we got to Miami, that was the Cuban Missile Crisis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, then we had to go to Vermont. I actually liked that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going to Vermont?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was it was in the fall. And I never had never been on the West Coast. On the East Coast. And so all that was fascinating, all the people you know. The country was pretty even, just like you see, you know, in those calendars, you know, the barns and the ducks in the field and of flowers and stuff. And then, you know, I, liked Vermont, could have stayed there too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of people apparently really liked Vermont. Completely different after the desert."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.714862410860658, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, then we had to go to Vermont. I actually liked that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going to Vermont?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was it was in the fall. And I never had never been on the West Coast. On the East Coast. And so all that was fascinating, all the people you know. The country was pretty even, just like you see, you know, in those calendars, you know, the barns and the ducks in the field and of flowers and stuff. And then, you know, I, liked Vermont, could have stayed there too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of people apparently really liked Vermont. Completely different after the desert."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. It was it was good. I went raccoon hunting with the janitor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.57206934540073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was it was in the fall. And I never had never been on the West Coast. On the East Coast. And so all that was fascinating, all the people you know. The country was pretty even, just like you see, you know, in those calendars, you know, the barns and the ducks in the field and of flowers and stuff. And then, you know, I, liked Vermont, could have stayed there too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of people apparently really liked Vermont. Completely different after the desert."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. It was it was good. I went raccoon hunting with the janitor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were eating raccoon. Yeah, it was fun for me. It was because I never did that. And he had a dog, an old pickup, and the dog would be in the back of the truck and we’d drive along. I'm antsy. I'm ready to, you know, as soon the dog barks. The guy would say, no, just wait. You’ll know, the dog then would make kind of a howl, jump out of the truck and take off, you know, and then again, I'm saying, well, let’s go chase him. No, you wait. And you hear the dog barking, barking, and then the pitch of the bark changed. Ah, he’s got one and finally the janitor would come out with his pistol and a flashlight and there we’d go and he’d have a raccoon up in the tree and go pop. One raccoon, put in the truck and go do it again. There was no real sporting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you do with the raccoon?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.5245214948897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. It was it was good. I went raccoon hunting with the janitor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were eating raccoon. Yeah, it was fun for me. It was because I never did that. And he had a dog, an old pickup, and the dog would be in the back of the truck and we’d drive along. I'm antsy. I'm ready to, you know, as soon the dog barks. The guy would say, no, just wait. You’ll know, the dog then would make kind of a howl, jump out of the truck and take off, you know, and then again, I'm saying, well, let’s go chase him. No, you wait. And you hear the dog barking, barking, and then the pitch of the bark changed. Ah, he’s got one and finally the janitor would come out with his pistol and a flashlight and there we’d go and he’d have a raccoon up in the tree and go pop. One raccoon, put in the truck and go do it again. There was no real sporting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you do with the raccoon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was up every spring and in the year to come there was they had a festival with the raccoon. Some kind of delicacy or something. And this festival, they had raccoon meals and he was collecting in his lot of raccoons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I know they do that sometimes in the south."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.693912772099665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were eating raccoon. Yeah, it was fun for me. It was because I never did that. And he had a dog, an old pickup, and the dog would be in the back of the truck and we’d drive along. I'm antsy. I'm ready to, you know, as soon the dog barks. The guy would say, no, just wait. You’ll know, the dog then would make kind of a howl, jump out of the truck and take off, you know, and then again, I'm saying, well, let’s go chase him. No, you wait. And you hear the dog barking, barking, and then the pitch of the bark changed. Ah, he’s got one and finally the janitor would come out with his pistol and a flashlight and there we’d go and he’d have a raccoon up in the tree and go pop. One raccoon, put in the truck and go do it again. There was no real sporting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you do with the raccoon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was up every spring and in the year to come there was they had a festival with the raccoon. Some kind of delicacy or something. And this festival, they had raccoon meals and he was collecting in his lot of raccoons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I know they do that sometimes in the south."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But possibly I think south. But a big rat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the big hairy rat. Yeah. So did you go into Boston?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.993236413444073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was up every spring and in the year to come there was they had a festival with the raccoon. Some kind of delicacy or something. And this festival, they had raccoon meals and he was collecting in his lot of raccoons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I know they do that sometimes in the south."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But possibly I think south. But a big rat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the big hairy rat. Yeah. So did you go into Boston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah Boston. One place where I thought they didn't speak English. I remember asking a policeman some directions, you know, and he was really polite to me and I said, yeah, what did he say? Can’t understand him. It was really, really thick his way of talking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you were you are one of us had problems when we first went to training, understanding people from the east, the people from the south, or was that not a problem?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.548040459382303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But possibly I think south. But a big rat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the big hairy rat. Yeah. So did you go into Boston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah Boston. One place where I thought they didn't speak English. I remember asking a policeman some directions, you know, and he was really polite to me and I said, yeah, what did he say? Can’t understand him. It was really, really thick his way of talking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you were you are one of us had problems when we first went to training, understanding people from the east, the people from the south, or was that not a problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think. I don't remember it as being a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so then, uh, after that, then I guess we were on our way to Bolivia. So tell me about your experiences when you got to Bolivia."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 25.05337828820256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah Boston. One place where I thought they didn't speak English. I remember asking a policeman some directions, you know, and he was really polite to me and I said, yeah, what did he say? Can’t understand him. It was really, really thick his way of talking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you were you are one of us had problems when we first went to training, understanding people from the east, the people from the south, or was that not a problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think. I don't remember it as being a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so then, uh, after that, then I guess we were on our way to Bolivia. So tell me about your experiences when you got to Bolivia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we landed in La Paz, the airport, some fourteen thousand feet. My head was bursting, the air so rarified up there. I just just couldn't do anything, you know? And I spent the first day or maybe two in bed, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's like the sea level."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.170420320225066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think. I don't remember it as being a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so then, uh, after that, then I guess we were on our way to Bolivia. So tell me about your experiences when you got to Bolivia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we landed in La Paz, the airport, some fourteen thousand feet. My head was bursting, the air so rarified up there. I just just couldn't do anything, you know? And I spent the first day or maybe two in bed, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's like the sea level."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I never had a head hurt like that. And so eventually you got a little better. And they took us, the Bolivians there. It was the kids group or whatever. But they took us for tours. Saw Lake Titicaca and some of the tourist sites that you see around there, the reed boats, and then a few days. And I don't know how many days it was. We got in their jeeps and had a caravan to Cochabamba. And we were driving along the Altiplano, you know, just going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to drive one of the jeeps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 21.300467022472294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we landed in La Paz, the airport, some fourteen thousand feet. My head was bursting, the air so rarified up there. I just just couldn't do anything, you know? And I spent the first day or maybe two in bed, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's like the sea level."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I never had a head hurt like that. And so eventually you got a little better. And they took us, the Bolivians there. It was the kids group or whatever. But they took us for tours. Saw Lake Titicaca and some of the tourist sites that you see around there, the reed boats, and then a few days. And I don't know how many days it was. We got in their jeeps and had a caravan to Cochabamba. And we were driving along the Altiplano, you know, just going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to drive one of the jeeps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I can remember being the Jeep and on each side of the Jeep there was nothing. And these people, you know, these rock walls, and that was their farm and god it sucks, you know, out of people. I mean, I really feel sorry for that. That's what, it's hard to imagine to do anything to help the people who didn't have anything to start with. Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what when you got to Cochabamba, what did you think?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.333852247191437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I never had a head hurt like that. And so eventually you got a little better. And they took us, the Bolivians there. It was the kids group or whatever. But they took us for tours. Saw Lake Titicaca and some of the tourist sites that you see around there, the reed boats, and then a few days. And I don't know how many days it was. We got in their jeeps and had a caravan to Cochabamba. And we were driving along the Altiplano, you know, just going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to drive one of the jeeps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I can remember being the Jeep and on each side of the Jeep there was nothing. And these people, you know, these rock walls, and that was their farm and god it sucks, you know, out of people. I mean, I really feel sorry for that. That's what, it's hard to imagine to do anything to help the people who didn't have anything to start with. Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what when you got to Cochabamba, what did you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Cochabamba is a lot like California, where we were not as high. I mean, it's higher than could be California, but they had the dry rolling hills. That kind of brushy hills and know big trees, eucalyptus. The climate is nice, you know. You know, winter got cool, don’t think it snowed very much. But it was closer to where I was accustomed to the climate. Not too hot. Dry heat, too, wasn’t any humidity, not like Cochabamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me about where in Cochabamba that you live by yourself or do you live with a family?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.926502496879376, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I can remember being the Jeep and on each side of the Jeep there was nothing. And these people, you know, these rock walls, and that was their farm and god it sucks, you know, out of people. I mean, I really feel sorry for that. That's what, it's hard to imagine to do anything to help the people who didn't have anything to start with. Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what when you got to Cochabamba, what did you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Cochabamba is a lot like California, where we were not as high. I mean, it's higher than could be California, but they had the dry rolling hills. That kind of brushy hills and know big trees, eucalyptus. The climate is nice, you know. You know, winter got cool, don’t think it snowed very much. But it was closer to where I was accustomed to the climate. Not too hot. Dry heat, too, wasn’t any humidity, not like Cochabamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me about where in Cochabamba that you live by yourself or do you live with a family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived with a family. Larry Wohlwend and myself lived with a family of German descent, Grosbergers. Husband, wife and two children, maybe three, three children, had two children and, you know, kids that were, you know, maybe five and four, and a small baby. He spoke English. He'd been in the States studying agriculture. And so he brought his he picked up in the state and he had a dairy and he raised chickens and he kind of had his hands and everything. You know, these people that any time you made a good politician, he was just into everything. Knew everybody, spoke the Indian languages and stuff, you know? You know, he was an interesting fellow, Grosberger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh, what, how old were you when you went?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.473891663199307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Cochabamba is a lot like California, where we were not as high. I mean, it's higher than could be California, but they had the dry rolling hills. That kind of brushy hills and know big trees, eucalyptus. The climate is nice, you know. You know, winter got cool, don’t think it snowed very much. But it was closer to where I was accustomed to the climate. Not too hot. Dry heat, too, wasn’t any humidity, not like Cochabamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell me about where in Cochabamba that you live by yourself or do you live with a family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived with a family. Larry Wohlwend and myself lived with a family of German descent, Grosbergers. Husband, wife and two children, maybe three, three children, had two children and, you know, kids that were, you know, maybe five and four, and a small baby. He spoke English. He'd been in the States studying agriculture. And so he brought his he picked up in the state and he had a dairy and he raised chickens and he kind of had his hands and everything. You know, these people that any time you made a good politician, he was just into everything. Knew everybody, spoke the Indian languages and stuff, you know? You know, he was an interesting fellow, Grosberger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh, what, how old were you when you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went at 22. I was 22 years old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "22. So what exactly do they ask you to do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.301770558145568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think it bothered him. I don't think I never picked up on that at all. And they may have picked up on the fact that what we were trying to tell them was really not so. They didn't see it, it really couldn’t be. There wasn’t obvious dirt in the container. They rinsed it out and stuff like that, but it wasn’t clean enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is that pretty much what you did while you were in Cochabamba?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The program was supposed to be one year and it was supposed that we were trying to transition, transition into something else. We never transitioned. The director, can’t remember the fellow’s name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Barrone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's right, Barrone. We were getting close to transitioning, he came up with the bright idea, let’s do another year. And I was kind of tired of it because the hours were bad. I mean, you know, get up at 3:00 in the morning and get to these dairies, you know, and you had to be there if you didn't get out there before they started milking, they would be done before you got there and they'd be done because only three or four pounds. And it took you most of the morning to get to some of these places. So you had to be there early and so had get up in the morning at 3:00, get in my Jep and take off. Those of us who had this milk project, had jeeps, the rest of the people had the bus. Then I get back and I’d go to the plant and deliver my samples, do the testing on them, get all the data, fill in my paperwork, and then I go back and get home maybe about 10 o’clock and go to bed. Sleep until lunchtime. And then life started again and again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was what you were doing for the work. What did you do in your off time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.335300620161743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The program was supposed to be one year and it was supposed that we were trying to transition, transition into something else. We never transitioned. The director, can’t remember the fellow’s name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Barrone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's right, Barrone. We were getting close to transitioning, he came up with the bright idea, let’s do another year. And I was kind of tired of it because the hours were bad. I mean, you know, get up at 3:00 in the morning and get to these dairies, you know, and you had to be there if you didn't get out there before they started milking, they would be done before you got there and they'd be done because only three or four pounds. And it took you most of the morning to get to some of these places. So you had to be there early and so had get up in the morning at 3:00, get in my Jep and take off. Those of us who had this milk project, had jeeps, the rest of the people had the bus. Then I get back and I’d go to the plant and deliver my samples, do the testing on them, get all the data, fill in my paperwork, and then I go back and get home maybe about 10 o’clock and go to bed. Sleep until lunchtime. And then life started again and again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was what you were doing for the work. What did you do in your off time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learn to drink beer. Um, I liked going around town. You know, I used to spend a lot of time wandering the town and going into the marketplace and just wandering around, talking to people, just looking around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have fit in pretty well. I mean, I bet they thought you were some kind of Latino."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.710247679212029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learn to drink beer. Um, I liked going around town. You know, I used to spend a lot of time wandering the town and going into the marketplace and just wandering around, talking to people, just looking around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have fit in pretty well. I mean, I bet they thought you were some kind of Latino."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they did. They spoke Spanish enough. I didn't have a real pronounced accent. You know, I could get along well. The people were very interesting, you know. And the fact that I was an American Latino, was different that a Latino from Argentina simply because it was some kind of animosity between some of the neighboring countries. You know, I liked it there. I mean, the two years was enough, but I liked it, had no problem with the time I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is there. Can you think of any significant things that happen to you or that you, while you were there, that really stand out? Well, you know, maybe significant is not the. Well, tell me about something that really is something that happened, really sticks out of your mind while you were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people were nice. They got along with everybody. I knew a lot of people like to converse with me and, you know, but, you know, when it comes out is when we first got to Bolivia, we were at the Lake Titicaca. And I always remember there was a beggar, you know, you see that guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, was he, uh, crippled?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.455830754680032, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they did. They spoke Spanish enough. I didn't have a real pronounced accent. You know, I could get along well. The people were very interesting, you know. And the fact that I was an American Latino, was different that a Latino from Argentina simply because it was some kind of animosity between some of the neighboring countries. You know, I liked it there. I mean, the two years was enough, but I liked it, had no problem with the time I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is there. Can you think of any significant things that happen to you or that you, while you were there, that really stand out? Well, you know, maybe significant is not the. Well, tell me about something that really is something that happened, really sticks out of your mind while you were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people were nice. They got along with everybody. I knew a lot of people like to converse with me and, you know, but, you know, when it comes out is when we first got to Bolivia, we were at the Lake Titicaca. And I always remember there was a beggar, you know, you see that guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, was he, uh, crippled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, it was sad to see him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the first time you’d seen something like that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.284256394088924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people were nice. They got along with everybody. I knew a lot of people like to converse with me and, you know, but, you know, when it comes out is when we first got to Bolivia, we were at the Lake Titicaca. And I always remember there was a beggar, you know, you see that guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, was he, uh, crippled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, it was sad to see him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the first time you’d seen something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was the first time I ever saw someone like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So moving on. Did you do any socializing when you were in Cochabamba?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.09361821565436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, it was sad to see him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the first time you’d seen something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was the first time I ever saw someone like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So moving on. Did you do any socializing when you were in Cochabamba?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just parties. The girls liked Americans. So the social life. Apparently, any guys that had anything going were gone. And the ones that were there were trying to go. Again, there were a lot of nice people. And that part is interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh. So over time, say at the end of the first year or say, for example, where were you when you heard about the Kennedy assassination?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.770686906282622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was the first time I ever saw someone like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So moving on. Did you do any socializing when you were in Cochabamba?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just parties. The girls liked Americans. So the social life. Apparently, any guys that had anything going were gone. And the ones that were there were trying to go. Again, there were a lot of nice people. And that part is interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh. So over time, say at the end of the first year or say, for example, where were you when you heard about the Kennedy assassination?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can remember like it was yesterday, like it was today. I got off the bus. I lived actually in Cochabamba, a little suburb of Piacoyo, it was on the bus route. I'd gotten off the bus and was walking down toe street to the house and this girl comes up, pops her head out the window, and says, they shot your president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That was hard."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.522985451425135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just parties. The girls liked Americans. So the social life. Apparently, any guys that had anything going were gone. And the ones that were there were trying to go. Again, there were a lot of nice people. And that part is interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh. So over time, say at the end of the first year or say, for example, where were you when you heard about the Kennedy assassination?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can remember like it was yesterday, like it was today. I got off the bus. I lived actually in Cochabamba, a little suburb of Piacoyo, it was on the bus route. I'd gotten off the bus and was walking down toe street to the house and this girl comes up, pops her head out the window, and says, they shot your president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That was hard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was hard. I remember that. And then apparently, listening to news, but that's when you remember seeing or hearing it. I still think it stands out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that was very traumatic for all the Peace Corps volunteers."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.358872723805705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can remember like it was yesterday, like it was today. I got off the bus. I lived actually in Cochabamba, a little suburb of Piacoyo, it was on the bus route. I'd gotten off the bus and was walking down toe street to the house and this girl comes up, pops her head out the window, and says, they shot your president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That was hard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was hard. I remember that. And then apparently, listening to news, but that's when you remember seeing or hearing it. I still think it stands out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that was very traumatic for all the Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh everybody. Yeah they all remember that, wherever they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the end of your first year, sounds like you didn’t have a hard time adjusting to the culture?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.287636359784116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was hard. I remember that. And then apparently, listening to news, but that's when you remember seeing or hearing it. I still think it stands out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that was very traumatic for all the Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh everybody. Yeah they all remember that, wherever they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the end of your first year, sounds like you didn’t have a hard time adjusting to the culture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I liked it there. The food was different, had to learn what to eat and where to eat, stuff like that. Always ran out of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was all that beer drinking."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.097373733093463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh everybody. Yeah they all remember that, wherever they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the end of your first year, sounds like you didn��t have a hard time adjusting to the culture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I liked it there. The food was different, had to learn what to eat and where to eat, stuff like that. Always ran out of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was all that beer drinking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I got to eating and I would get done with my work around 10, 11 o’clock, you know, and I’d go to town. Couldn’t go to sleep, I’d go to town and have lunch, you know. Bolivians have something called salteñas. I liked those. And the best salteñas, even to Bolivians, were made by a Chinese guy. Go over there, he makes the best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that about 10 o'clock in the morning?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.77485970343718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I liked it there. The food was different, had to learn what to eat and where to eat, stuff like that. Always ran out of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was all that beer drinking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I got to eating and I would get done with my work around 10, 11 o’clock, you know, and I’d go to town. Couldn’t go to sleep, I’d go to town and have lunch, you know. Bolivians have something called salteñas. I liked those. And the best salteñas, even to Bolivians, were made by a Chinese guy. Go over there, he makes the best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that about 10 o'clock in the morning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From 11:00 until maybe 1:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So in the long term, from where when you got done with your time in Bolivia, how did you feel about what you had done? Did you feel like you had done what you thought you what they thought you needed to do, or how did you feel about that experience?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.416510781596866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I got to eating and I would get done with my work around 10, 11 o’clock, you know, and I’d go to town. Couldn’t go to sleep, I’d go to town and have lunch, you know. Bolivians have something called salteñas. I liked those. And the best salteñas, even to Bolivians, were made by a Chinese guy. Go over there, he makes the best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that about 10 o'clock in the morning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From 11:00 until maybe 1:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So in the long term, from where when you got done with your time in Bolivia, how did you feel about what you had done? Did you feel like you had done what you thought you what they thought you needed to do, or how did you feel about that experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I felt I did what they were expecting me to do, you know, in social context. I tried to help the people who were successful, but they were really slow to change. But I was satisfied with me. You know, I was ready to go. I wouldn't have signed up for another tour. It was time for me to go. After seeing how Bolivians live with it and realize, you know, I've got to get going with that I need to do, go back to school and finish. So I did eventually finish, but I was 27 when I graduated from college. But no, I was content and I thought I did what they wanted, what they're expecting. I think Peace Corps at that time was expecting a volunteer to go down there and try, not get in trouble, you know, and be friendly to people. And I did all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, tell me if at the end of your tour, you mentioned this earlier, did you think that the preparation and the training helped at all?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.796123090663184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From 11:00 until maybe 1:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So in the long term, from where when you got done with your time in Bolivia, how did you feel about what you had done? Did you feel like you had done what you thought you what they thought you needed to do, or how did you feel about that experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I felt I did what they were expecting me to do, you know, in social context. I tried to help the people who were successful, but they were really slow to change. But I was satisfied with me. You know, I was ready to go. I wouldn't have signed up for another tour. It was time for me to go. After seeing how Bolivians live with it and realize, you know, I've got to get going with that I need to do, go back to school and finish. So I did eventually finish, but I was 27 when I graduated from college. But no, I was content and I thought I did what they wanted, what they're expecting. I think Peace Corps at that time was expecting a volunteer to go down there and try, not get in trouble, you know, and be friendly to people. And I did all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, tell me if at the end of your tour, you mentioned this earlier, did you think that the preparation and the training helped at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly the language portion helped and then the actual agriculture. Maybe living with the Indian American Indian reservation, the Maricopa, seeing how another way people live. People who came from the State Department to give you advice and stuff, they were worthless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, that I subsequently spent time in other doing other things down there, and it was true, but some people had no clue about anything."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.217914545181316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I felt I did what they were expecting me to do, you know, in social context. I tried to help the people who were successful, but they were really slow to change. But I was satisfied with me. You know, I was ready to go. I wouldn't have signed up for another tour. It was time for me to go. After seeing how Bolivians live with it and realize, you know, I've got to get going with that I need to do, go back to school and finish. So I did eventually finish, but I was 27 when I graduated from college. But no, I was content and I thought I did what they wanted, what they're expecting. I think Peace Corps at that time was expecting a volunteer to go down there and try, not get in trouble, you know, and be friendly to people. And I did all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, tell me if at the end of your tour, you mentioned this earlier, did you think that the preparation and the training helped at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly the language portion helped and then the actual agriculture. Maybe living with the Indian American Indian reservation, the Maricopa, seeing how another way people live. People who came from the State Department to give you advice and stuff, they were worthless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, that I subsequently spent time in other doing other things down there, and it was true, but some people had no clue about anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They weren’t there. I mean, if they were, they spent the time in their room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did probably provide some technical assistance and probably help people understand the U.S. and Americans better, and you got to know the Bolivians and lived with them."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3532383835347945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly the language portion helped and then the actual agriculture. Maybe living with the Indian American Indian reservation, the Maricopa, seeing how another way people live. People who came from the State Department to give you advice and stuff, they were worthless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, that I subsequently spent time in other doing other things down there, and it was true, but some people had no clue about anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They weren’t there. I mean, if they were, they spent the time in their room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did probably provide some technical assistance and probably help people understand the U.S. and Americans better, and you got to know the Bolivians and lived with them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were from America trying to help you with your cows. And we did. The plant went from production of about three thousand liters per day up to eight or 10 liters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh that’s good."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5035982039275495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They weren’t there. I mean, if they were, they spent the time in their room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did probably provide some technical assistance and probably help people understand the U.S. and Americans better, and you got to know the Bolivians and lived with them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were from America trying to help you with your cows. And we did. The plant went from production of about three thousand liters per day up to eight or 10 liters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh that’s good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had an impact, you know, and then the scientists there brought in the artificial insemination to try to improve the herds. It helped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after you got out the Peace Corps, have you had any continued involvement with Bolivia or Bolivians?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6706646710306106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were from America trying to help you with your cows. And we did. The plant went from production of about three thousand liters per day up to eight or 10 liters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh that’s good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had an impact, you know, and then the scientists there brought in the artificial insemination to try to improve the herds. It helped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after you got out the Peace Corps, have you had any continued involvement with Bolivia or Bolivians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The family you lived with there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8562940789229005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had an impact, you know, and then the scientists there brought in the artificial insemination to try to improve the herds. It helped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after you got out the Peace Corps, have you had any continued involvement with Bolivia or Bolivians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The family you lived with there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I abandoned everyone and went on my greedy way. I went back to college. I would read the paper about Bolivia and show my relatives my slides. But I didn't have contact. I didn’t keep any contact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell me, do you think that being in the Peace Corps changed the direction that you went after you got out? Would you have done the same thing had you not gone?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0625489765810006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The family you lived with there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I abandoned everyone and went on my greedy way. I went back to college. I would read the paper about Bolivia and show my relatives my slides. But I didn't have contact. I didn’t keep any contact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell me, do you think that being in the Peace Corps changed the direction that you went after you got out? Would you have done the same thing had you not gone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I would have. If you go to Peace Corps, I think you stay in that direction. I think you should go and be in a program where you help people. My profession was, I built stuff. I didn't help the down-trodden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s something."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.2917210850900007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I abandoned everyone and went on my greedy way. I went back to college. I would read the paper about Bolivia and show my relatives my slides. But I didn't have contact. I didn’t keep any contact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell me, do you think that being in the Peace Corps changed the direction that you went after you got out? Would you have done the same thing had you not gone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I would have. If you go to Peace Corps, I think you stay in that direction. I think you should go and be in a program where you help people. My profession was, I built stuff. I didn't help the down-trodden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, indirectly, but it's not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a civil engineer, and so that's the kind of thing you did in California?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4352456501000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I would have. If you go to Peace Corps, I think you stay in that direction. I think you should go and be in a program where you help people. My profession was, I built stuff. I didn't help the down-trodden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, indirectly, but it's not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a civil engineer, and so that's the kind of thing you did in California?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My specialty was water and sewer, so we designed and built water treatment plants, sewage treatment, the pump stations. Did that for 37 years. Civil engineering helps society, but that was in the back of my mind, I had a good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where I were, you know, they were always trying to see if we were altruistic. I think we were altruistic. We were also looking for some adventure."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5947173890000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, indirectly, but it's not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a civil engineer, and so that's the kind of thing you did in California?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My specialty was water and sewer, so we designed and built water treatment plants, sewage treatment, the pump stations. Did that for 37 years. Civil engineering helps society, but that was in the back of my mind, I had a good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where I were, you know, they were always trying to see if we were altruistic. I think we were altruistic. We were also looking for some adventure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it to be something new. I was tired of school. I really didn't know which way to go to school. I mean, I didn't have good English ability. But I was good at math and understood the engineering concepts, so I went that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which are foreign concepts to me."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7719082100000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My specialty was water and sewer, so we designed and built water treatment plants, sewage treatment, the pump stations. Did that for 37 years. Civil engineering helps society, but that was in the back of my mind, I had a good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where I were, you know, they were always trying to see if we were altruistic. I think we were altruistic. We were also looking for some adventure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it to be something new. I was tired of school. I really didn't know which way to go to school. I mean, I didn't have good English ability. But I was good at math and understood the engineering concepts, so I went that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which are foreign concepts to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they're not to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody needs their little direction to go. OK, so basically you said you came back and went to school, but took a while to finish with that just because."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9687869000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it to be something new. I was tired of school. I really didn't know which way to go to school. I mean, I didn't have good English ability. But I was good at math and understood the engineering concepts, so I went that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which are foreign concepts to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they're not to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody needs their little direction to go. OK, so basically you said you came back and went to school, but took a while to finish with that just because."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Changed majors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you doing before?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.1875410000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they're not to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody needs their little direction to go. OK, so basically you said you came back and went to school, but took a while to finish with that just because."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Changed majors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you doing before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Civil engineering. But it was structural, and I had changed over to water and sanitation, which required me to take some more hydraulic classes and take microbiology. And sewage treatment is a biological process. Had to learn that process, so it took me longer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, well, most engineering or anyway, takes five years?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.31949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Changed majors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you doing before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Civil engineering. But it was structural, and I had changed over to water and sanitation, which required me to take some more hydraulic classes and take microbiology. And sewage treatment is a biological process. Had to learn that process, so it took me longer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, well, most engineering or anyway, takes five years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And now I did get a master’s, just not at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you have any other comments or things that you'd like to add?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Civil engineering. But it was structural, and I had changed over to water and sanitation, which required me to take some more hydraulic classes and take microbiology. And sewage treatment is a biological process. Had to learn that process, so it took me longer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, well, most engineering or anyway, takes five years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And now I did get a master’s, just not at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you have any other comments or things that you'd like to add?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My daughters used to ask if they should join the Peace Corps and I said, do it! Do it when you're young. Now, they can't do it. They're married or they got the career, they have too much time spent on their education, they can't let that lapse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I know I hear students talking that they would really like to be corps, but nobody’s willing to give up that two years."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And now I did get a master’s, just not at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you have any other comments or things that you'd like to add?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My daughters used to ask if they should join the Peace Corps and I said, do it! Do it when you're young. Now, they can't do it. They're married or they got the career, they have too much time spent on their education, they can't let that lapse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I know I hear students talking that they would really like to be corps, but nobody’s willing to give up that two years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It can be an impact depending on where you are in your education. I think it's harder, it's harder to go right after college, especially if you if you have the technical education, you have to keep that up or you lose it. The liberal arts would actually be pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the problem with nurses is that, if they get out, they really need to practice, because I know that for me, I felt about 10 years after I was in the Peace Corps, I had. [tape break]"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My daughters used to ask if they should join the Peace Corps and I said, do it! Do it when you're young. Now, they can't do it. They're married or they got the career, they have too much time spent on their education, they can't let that lapse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I know I hear students talking that they would really like to be corps, but nobody’s willing to give up that two years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It can be an impact depending on where you are in your education. I think it's harder, it's harder to go right after college, especially if you if you have the technical education, you have to keep that up or you lose it. The liberal arts would actually be pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the problem with nurses is that, if they get out, they really need to practice, because I know that for me, I felt about 10 years after I was in the Peace Corps, I had. [tape break]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were bacteria and cleanliness and it wasn't cleanliness because it shined, you know, it had to be cleaned and not sterile, but at least clean. These people didn't think that was problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would have been a real problem with trying to improve the sanitation."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It can be an impact depending on where you are in your education. I think it's harder, it's harder to go right after college, especially if you if you have the technical education, you have to keep that up or you lose it. The liberal arts would actually be pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the problem with nurses is that, if they get out, they really need to practice, because I know that for me, I felt about 10 years after I was in the Peace Corps, I had. [tape break]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were bacteria and cleanliness and it wasn't cleanliness because it shined, you know, it had to be cleaned and not sterile, but at least clean. These people didn't think that was problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would have been a real problem with trying to improve the sanitation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a big problem. They just did not get it and they would do what you suggested, supply them with the soap and stuff like that, but soon as they ran out of the soap or were in a hurry and they couldn’t do it this morning because they got late, you know, it was not something they conscientiously believed in. Something they did with it might have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I ran into that trying to teach him how to scrub, sterile technique, you know, because I finally had to teach it like a ceremony. Because you do this, you do this, because they didn't understand scientific principle, so you couldn't tell them that and figure that they would know how to use that, you just had to tell them a specific way to do it. And it always had to be in this way."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were bacteria and cleanliness and it wasn't cleanliness because it shined, you know, it had to be cleaned and not sterile, but at least clean. These people didn't think that was problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would have been a real problem with trying to improve the sanitation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a big problem. They just did not get it and they would do what you suggested, supply them with the soap and stuff like that, but soon as they ran out of the soap or were in a hurry and they couldn’t do it this morning because they got late, you know, it was not something they conscientiously believed in. Something they did with it might have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I ran into that trying to teach him how to scrub, sterile technique, you know, because I finally had to teach it like a ceremony. Because you do this, you do this, because they didn't understand scientific principle, so you couldn't tell them that and figure that they would know how to use that, you just had to tell them a specific way to do it. And it always had to be in this way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, the hope of those people are the kids. The adults."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much contact with kids? A lot of a lot of people were teaching English and doing other 4S clubs and stuff."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00247:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a big problem. They just did not get it and they would do what you suggested, supply them with the soap and stuff like that, but soon as they ran out of the soap or were in a hurry and they couldn’t do it this morning because they got late, you know, it was not something they conscientiously believed in. Something they did with it might have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I ran into that trying to teach him how to scrub, sterile technique, you know, because I finally had to teach it like a ceremony. Because you do this, you do this, because they didn't understand scientific principle, so you couldn't tell them that and figure that they would know how to use that, you just had to tell them a specific way to do it. And it always had to be in this way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, the hope of those people are the kids. The adults."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much contact with kids? A lot of a lot of people were teaching English and doing other 4S clubs and stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I helped, I taught English. The replacement teachers would go on vacation, I think I took Lofton’s place for a while. But I didn't do it as a routine though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, if you have no other things?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00066:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 59.24231207819938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While we’re on that topic, would you like to talk about that day when the launch happened, where you were, what your role was at that moment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were all in Baikonur for the launch. Mr. Goldin was there, Mr. [George W.S.] Abbey was there, the head of the Russian Space Agency, dignitaries, representatives from the White House staff, and news coverage. It was a very very cold November day. It was for all the marbles, and we had a perfect launch, and we waited until we had separation from the Proton launch vehicle and the Functional Cargo Block. It was a great relief and a great sense of pride for all of us. I remember it was being televised on NASA Select back in the States. My family watched it, and lots of other people, because it was so important. That was a special day. I thought at the time there were so many people that never believed we would ever develop the hardware, much less successfully launch the Space Station, and there it was, the first element was in orbit. Shortly followed by the second launch with [Robert D.] Bob Cabana and his [STS-88] crew on the Shuttle Endeavour in December [1998] to deliver Node 1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the same time were there a lot of concerns? Did you believe that Unity was going to do well once it was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really did; I used to laugh. We had 21 different independent review groups overseeing the International Space Station, and it seemed like we spent half our time dealing with the various review groups, answering questions about this and about that. I guess the good news is they probably asked every imaginable technical, every question that you could imagine. Maybe instead of being a real impediment and a pain in the rear end, maybe it was really beneficial because it certainly caused us to have the Space Station looked at from every possible angle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Were all of those [review groups] cross-cultural? Or were some independent from each nation?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00066:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.070097971834176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. The first cosmonauts came over to stay; there’s a funny story with Bill Readdy and Bill Shepherd taking them out to go grocery shopping. They were convinced that they were being taken to stores that were specially set up, because they couldn’t comprehend having more than one type of cereal on the shelf in the supermarket. They were blown away and they were convinced that it was all set up. Now it’s that way everywhere [in Russia].\\n\\n When all the Russians would come, I knew every suit that every one of my counterparts owned, because they only owned one or two. They certainly didn’t have a lot of money. They would stay at a hotel that offered free breakfast and a happy hour and hors d’oeuvres. They would save all their money. We would work Monday through Friday, we would have a general design review or summary meeting where we had to sign protocols on Friday, then we would have a celebration Friday night, dinner together. Then they would leave on Sunday instead of Saturday. We always left on Saturday to come home from Russia, but they always left on Sunday.\\n\\n On Saturday you could guarantee yourself you’d see them at Home Depot. They would be loading up everything they could. They saved all their money, and they’d be loading up everything they could get their hands on to take back to Russia. If you wanted to see your Russian friends, if you happened to be in Home Depot you would see them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any last-minute details you had to do, you had to go to Home Depot and shop with them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s what they would do. They would be there buying stuff. The other thing is they refused to drink American vodka because they said, “We only export the stuff to you that’s not drinkable.” They always brought their own vodka. They would not drink our vodka."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess they had empty suitcases then to put things in from Home Depot, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s what they would do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Were these tools or things that they would go back and use for their homes or for a business?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00066:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 24.52233107981575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s what they would do. They would be there buying stuff. The other thing is they refused to drink American vodka because they said, “We only export the stuff to you that’s not drinkable.” They always brought their own vodka. They would not drink our vodka."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess they had empty suitcases then to put things in from Home Depot, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s what they would do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Were these tools or things that they would go back and use for their homes or for a business?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, mainly for their homes. All the things that we have, little items, this and that. None of that was available when we first got there. I went back a couple years ago. I was just amazed, because they had everything there that you could find in Paris or on Rodeo Drive in Los Angeles. When we first got there, there was nothing on the shelves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad you were able to see that transition and be able to be a part of that for where it came from."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00066:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.024812310906388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s what they would do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Were these tools or things that they would go back and use for their homes or for a business?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, mainly for their homes. All the things that we have, little items, this and that. None of that was available when we first got there. I went back a couple years ago. I was just amazed, because they had everything there that you could find in Paris or on Rodeo Drive in Los Angeles. When we first got there, there was nothing on the shelves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad you were able to see that transition and be able to be a part of that for where it came from."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an amazing experience. I have great respect for the Russians. They are incredibly educated. Our counterparts, we had Russians who had left aerospace industry with PhDs that were our drivers for the Program Office of NASA. PhDs in electrical engineering, and they spoke fluent English. There was no shortage of educated Russians that we interfaced with. A lot of them left the industry because they could make more money in the flea market than they could working in aerospace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of Russian engineers, some things they certainly had in common with American engineers, but one of I believe the components that was of a difference is how safety was done. How did you resolve some of the discussions about how things were going to be built or how things were going to be operated to bring safety standards to a common place between the two different space agencies?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00066:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 20.83494856627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I still have a model on my desk here at my home that Muratore gave me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking about the crew, before you left, crews were training, and Shepherd was going to lead that command. Did you have any involvement with that encouragement to put him in charge of the first crew going up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had lobbied hard to George Abbey and Dan Goldin that Shep deserved that because he had worked so hard as my Deputy. Of anybody that should be the first commander, it should be Bill Shepherd."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You still feel like you made a good decision, don’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I certainly do. I will say that during one conference call on NASA Select, Dan Goldin wanted to fire Shep, because while on orbit Shep had arbitrarily told Mr. Goldin that he had decided what to name the Space Station. Goldin called Abbey. He said, “I’m going to fire him.” Abbey said, “You at least got to wait till he comes back to Earth.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did mention Keith Reiley before we started talking for today’s session. Would you like to share a little bit more about the contributions that he made?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00066:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.693870700000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re right. There was no hardware interface between the Russian hardware and the U.S. hardware before it flew. The FGB never was mated to Node 1. On those interfaces, it was never ever tested on Earth. The interface was tested the first time on orbit, in the extreme atmosphere of space. That’s a big deal. From FGB to Node 1, the first time was when [Robert D.] Bob Cabana and his crew got up there.\\n\\n We hadn’t checked to see if it would work at ambient temperature, much less space. But it worked—the power system, the software, the node interface, you had completely different systems on either side of the node. Those guys that work software figured it out, and there has never been a major software glitch on the Space Station. To me that’s incredible. Software worked from day one.\\n\\n There’s a whole other story on the software that’s just as remarkable as the hardware. The guys who ran that lab out at the Sonny Carter Facility [Neutral Buoyancy Laboratory, Houston, Texas] and the Russians, they really worked well together. They did an incredible job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it stay pretty much on schedule and budget or did it have ups and downs as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had less ups and downs than the hardware did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had also mentioned earlier [Bohdan] Bo Bejmuk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bo Bejmuk. Now that he’s a retired Boeing executive, he serves on the Stafford independent review team. Bo really played a critical role in Phase 1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said he did a lot with the hardware. Is that correct?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00066:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.326523000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had less ups and downs than the hardware did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had also mentioned earlier [Bohdan] Bo Bejmuk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bo Bejmuk. Now that he’s a retired Boeing executive, he serves on the Stafford independent review team. Bo really played a critical role in Phase 1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said he did a lot with the hardware. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He was a Rockwell heritage guy that had been with the Shuttle. When we had to figure out the interface between the Shuttle and the Mir in terms of docking and to build that hardware for the interface, Bo was in charge of all that. We used the same on the Space Station, everything on the Russian segment was a Mir-2, was a derivative of Mir-1. They were able to come up with a design on the Shuttle for docking those vehicles, then we used the same interfaces on the nodes, anything that touched the Russian segment. Bo really played an important role."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Randy, you shared a lot about what worked well and how things were able to work out. Were there just some challenges that you met that just didn’t get done? Or where you had to compromise to a point that you weren’t happy but had to move the Station forward?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00066:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.029470000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bo Bejmuk. Now that he’s a retired Boeing executive, he serves on the Stafford independent review team. Bo really played a critical role in Phase 1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said he did a lot with the hardware. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He was a Rockwell heritage guy that had been with the Shuttle. When we had to figure out the interface between the Shuttle and the Mir in terms of docking and to build that hardware for the interface, Bo was in charge of all that. We used the same on the Space Station, everything on the Russian segment was a Mir-2, was a derivative of Mir-1. They were able to come up with a design on the Shuttle for docking those vehicles, then we used the same interfaces on the nodes, anything that touched the Russian segment. Bo really played an important role."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Randy, you shared a lot about what worked well and how things were able to work out. Were there just some challenges that you met that just didn’t get done? Or where you had to compromise to a point that you weren’t happy but had to move the Station forward?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there were decisions and priorities that I would have done otherwise, but again at the end of the day you can either resign or accept. There were decisions that were made above my pay grade. Mainly I’m talking about funding. You can only do so much, and you have to do the best with the funding that you have. Everybody wants more funding, but at the end of the day when that’s what you’re given, you have to either make that work or go do something else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1999 you made a decision to go do something else. Why did you decide to leave NASA?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00066:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9869999999999997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there were decisions and priorities that I would have done otherwise, but again at the end of the day you can either resign or accept. There were decisions that were made above my pay grade. Mainly I’m talking about funding. You can only do so much, and you have to do the best with the funding that you have. Everybody wants more funding, but at the end of the day when that’s what you’re given, you have to either make that work or go do something else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1999 you made a decision to go do something else. Why did you decide to leave NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I had always wanted to go back into industry. I felt like I had done everything that I could —I felt the Station was in a position where I could walk away and feel proud about it. We had two elements on orbit working successfully. We had all the Phase 2 elements well along, ready to be launched. I could have stayed and I guess ridden that out. I talked to Mr. Abbey.\\n\\n I wanted to go run a company, and I wanted to do something outside the government sector. I’d spent 25 years in the Marine Corps, I spent 10 years in NASA. I wanted the experience to have an opportunity to do something on the industry side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What lessons did you learn from working your years at NASA that you brought with you into your new your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think NASA was a follow-on building block to the Marine Corps. At NASA I felt I had achieved a degree of credibility in industry. When I was offered the job as senior vice president at Hughes Space and Comm [Communication Company] for all the satellite programs, I didn’t know anything about satellites, but I figured it couldn’t be any more complicated than Space Station or the Hubble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a true statement once you got there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00066:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.43, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I had always wanted to go back into industry. I felt like I had done everything that I could —I felt the Station was in a position where I could walk away and feel proud about it. We had two elements on orbit working successfully. We had all the Phase 2 elements well along, ready to be launched. I could have stayed and I guess ridden that out. I talked to Mr. Abbey.\\n\\n I wanted to go run a company, and I wanted to do something outside the government sector. I’d spent 25 years in the Marine Corps, I spent 10 years in NASA. I wanted the experience to have an opportunity to do something on the industry side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What lessons did you learn from working your years at NASA that you brought with you into your new your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think NASA was a follow-on building block to the Marine Corps. At NASA I felt I had achieved a degree of credibility in industry. When I was offered the job as senior vice president at Hughes Space and Comm [Communication Company] for all the satellite programs, I didn’t know anything about satellites, but I figured it couldn’t be any more complicated than Space Station or the Hubble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a true statement once you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found the Marine Corps is the most empowering organization I’ve ever been a part of and NASA is the second most empowering organization. Unfortunately, my experiences in industry, they’re certainly not of the same league in terms of empowerment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a good thing you had lots of experience and challenging opportunities then. It sounds like that’s what prepared you for that. Did you leave any recommendations or suggestions when you left, when you knew you were exiting out? Were there some thoughts you shared?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00066:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think NASA was a follow-on building block to the Marine Corps. At NASA I felt I had achieved a degree of credibility in industry. When I was offered the job as senior vice president at Hughes Space and Comm [Communication Company] for all the satellite programs, I didn’t know anything about satellites, but I figured it couldn’t be any more complicated than Space Station or the Hubble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a true statement once you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found the Marine Corps is the most empowering organization I’ve ever been a part of and NASA is the second most empowering organization. Unfortunately, my experiences in industry, they’re certainly not of the same league in terms of empowerment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a good thing you had lots of experience and challenging opportunities then. It sounds like that’s what prepared you for that. Did you leave any recommendations or suggestions when you left, when you knew you were exiting out? Were there some thoughts you shared?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had an extensive lessons learned database. When I was in Hubble they were trying to recapture the Apollo lessons learned. The first thing I did is try to go back and look at lessons learned as to how I might apply them to being the mission director of the Hubble repair mission. What I found was, there really wasn’t such a thing.\\n\\n So we within the ISS Program established our own lessons learned. There was an extensive database created. Maybe they’ve thrown it away, but it certainly was extensive while I was there, to capture lessons learned as we went along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you look back on the years that you were there, what do you consider your greatest or the most significant contribution that you made to the Program?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00020:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 37.86001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's stop the tape, because I need water. Or you can just have the tape go. But let me just for a moment..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sorry about that, Stephanie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Going on. All right. What else can we cover?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't know if you wanted to talk about the Pearl Harbor incident?"}]}
+{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00020:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I played a small part. We all are part of a relay race in life where you get the token for a while, you're given the token by someone, and then you hand it off to the next person. And if you've done your part in the relay race, running as fast as you can, doing as much as you can to help, you know, knowing that your time is limited, you value that time and then you hand it off to others to continue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, hey, I think I've kept you over our time here, so I just want to say thank you for participating in this. I'll go ahead and get you that transcript as soon as I can, and then I'll reiterate in my email some of the points that we talked about previously. But yeah, thank you so much for all this information. It's been really great and interesting. I hope you had a good time too. And I hope [CROSS-TALKING]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did! This is a lot of fun with all these memories and thank you for giving me the opportunity. And, of course, I wish you all the best and want you to keep interviewing people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes. I will. All right. Well, thank you so much. And yeah, I'll be talking to you soon then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thanks, Stephanie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Have a good rest of your day."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00201:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 50.43540354492348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To an astronaut environment, but it was the same kind of thing, and I could see why they wanted people who had had the formal training that you received, one, as an engineer, formal training in the academic world, but also in preparation to be a test pilot. Because basically that’s what we were looking at, was a test vehicle, a research test vehicle, unflown.\\n\\n The mission specialists who were selected were of that same type. They were very, very smart. They were all class Type A personalities. The majority of them had no ego whatsoever; they were very humble. Each said, you know, “If I sit and think, there were so many other people who were much more qualified than I was. I don’t know how I got selected. We’re very happy to be here.” A very compatible group, the thirty-five of us who showed up down there.\\n\\n But it was kind of the same kind of job that we had had before, except it was a much more complex vehicle that we were going to go fly, in a different environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were able to keep your military connection?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, apparently I was. [Laughs] And the first hint of that was when the Air Force Times announced the Air Force astronauts who had been selected for the astronaut program and my name was there. [Laughs] So somehow—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Clip it out and keep that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I do. I have it. But I guess they decided not to allow me to resign, but put me in as an Air Force astronaut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a certain type of agreement that NASA and the Air Force makes?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00201:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 56.0393372721372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, apparently I was. [Laughs] And the first hint of that was when the Air Force Times announced the Air Force astronauts who had been selected for the astronaut program and my name was there. [Laughs] So somehow—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Clip it out and keep that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I do. I have it. But I guess they decided not to allow me to resign, but put me in as an Air Force astronaut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a certain type of agreement that NASA and the Air Force makes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there is an agreement, and I’m not really sure what it is, but I think it is we are detailed to NASA, and I think the military paid our salaries and NASA paid for our travel and things of that nature. I don’t know if there was a reimbursement to the military for our services. But once we got there, military uniforms went off and we were just NASA employees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You joined another group of astronauts, because there were some that were there, as you mentioned, ones that were from the MOL Program and then the class of 1966."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00201:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 62.26593030237467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I do. I have it. But I guess they decided not to allow me to resign, but put me in as an Air Force astronaut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a certain type of agreement that NASA and the Air Force makes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there is an agreement, and I’m not really sure what it is, but I think it is we are detailed to NASA, and I think the military paid our salaries and NASA paid for our travel and things of that nature. I don’t know if there was a reimbursement to the military for our services. But once we got there, military uniforms went off and we were just NASA employees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You joined another group of astronauts, because there were some that were there, as you mentioned, ones that were from the MOL Program and then the class of 1966."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And earlier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And earlier. Some of the veterans and certain legacies that they had already set down. Tell me how the reception was from these folks and how your new class became entwined with them as one large astronaut corps."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00201:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 37.12955582000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was 1983, in February of 1983, when NASA announced that you would be assigned to a flight. Then it was STS-18 and then later renamed. Tell us how that happened and how you were able to be so patient from watching those first two flights to getting yours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh wow. I think this had to do with whether we flew or not, it didn’t matter, because just the privilege of being there was enough for all of us. But, you know, the whole schedule was delayed by several years because of the tile replacement, so though we anticipated flying in ’78 or ’79, we didn’t fly until ’81, and then just a couple of flights, ’81, ’82 or so, then we began to spool up. Let’s see. I didn’t realize it had been—February ’83, you said?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It was announced and then, of course, you flew in ’85."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I guess there was shifting of launch times, because we were on Spacelab 3 and I know we launched before Spacelab 2 and after Spacelab 1. I think they had some payloads that they wanted to deploy quickly, and so the laboratory missions were kind of put in a kind of a second category for priority.\\n\\n But, you know, the date wasn’t important at the time. To be assigned to a crew, though, with Bob [Robert F.] Overmyer as the commander, and I was going to be the pilot on it. We had Norm [Norman E.] Thagard on it and Don [L. Lind] and Taylor [G.] Wang and Lodewijk van den Berg. It sounded like it was going to be an exciting crew and an exciting time. Bob Overmyer in himself was, you know, quite an interesting Marine, and to be able to work with him was—I was privileged. So I guess I had not worried about or hadn’t even considered when it was. It was just we were going to be the best we could be when we flew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you learn that you had been selected?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00201:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.032839800000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh wow. I think this had to do with whether we flew or not, it didn’t matter, because just the privilege of being there was enough for all of us. But, you know, the whole schedule was delayed by several years because of the tile replacement, so though we anticipated flying in ’78 or ’79, we didn’t fly until ’81, and then just a couple of flights, ’81, ’82 or so, then we began to spool up. Let’s see. I didn’t realize it had been—February ’83, you said?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It was announced and then, of course, you flew in ’85."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I guess there was shifting of launch times, because we were on Spacelab 3 and I know we launched before Spacelab 2 and after Spacelab 1. I think they had some payloads that they wanted to deploy quickly, and so the laboratory missions were kind of put in a kind of a second category for priority.\\n\\n But, you know, the date wasn’t important at the time. To be assigned to a crew, though, with Bob [Robert F.] Overmyer as the commander, and I was going to be the pilot on it. We had Norm [Norman E.] Thagard on it and Don [L. Lind] and Taylor [G.] Wang and Lodewijk van den Berg. It sounded like it was going to be an exciting crew and an exciting time. Bob Overmyer in himself was, you know, quite an interesting Marine, and to be able to work with him was—I was privileged. So I guess I had not worried about or hadn’t even considered when it was. It was just we were going to be the best we could be when we flew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you learn that you had been selected?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the scheme of things, it was probably George Abbey who called. George did most of that. But I don’t recall how I was told."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the reaction of your family when you shared the news with them that you were going to be flying?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00201:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 43.369822000000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I guess there was shifting of launch times, because we were on Spacelab 3 and I know we launched before Spacelab 2 and after Spacelab 1. I think they had some payloads that they wanted to deploy quickly, and so the laboratory missions were kind of put in a kind of a second category for priority.\\n\\n But, you know, the date wasn’t important at the time. To be assigned to a crew, though, with Bob [Robert F.] Overmyer as the commander, and I was going to be the pilot on it. We had Norm [Norman E.] Thagard on it and Don [L. Lind] and Taylor [G.] Wang and Lodewijk van den Berg. It sounded like it was going to be an exciting crew and an exciting time. Bob Overmyer in himself was, you know, quite an interesting Marine, and to be able to work with him was—I was privileged. So I guess I had not worried about or hadn’t even considered when it was. It was just we were going to be the best we could be when we flew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you learn that you had been selected?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the scheme of things, it was probably George Abbey who called. George did most of that. But I don’t recall how I was told."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the reaction of your family when you shared the news with them that you were going to be flying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure they were excited, but I don’t recall. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all right. Well, we had talked a few minutes ago about training, and I’d like to talk about the actual training of your mission. I’m going to stop the tape for just a minute and trade out the tape.\\n\\n [Tape change.]\n\nYou were sharing with us the names of the members of your crew. Tell us how you started training and became not individuals, but crewmembers."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00201:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 47.02, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "April ’85."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In fact, it was today in ’85. April 29th."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh really? Okay. In ’85, so that would have been two years and about three months or so. We spent a lot of time training for that. So when we flew, I thought we were pretty well prepared for that mission. But these kinds of delays and having missions inserted was not an unusual activity at the time. You kind of accepted it and you kind of ran with it. So I’m sure that when we were designated February ’83, our launch time was not April ’85. It was probably within the year or year and a half or so or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mentioned to you about patience, but Don Lind had waited since 1966."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he waited. He’d been waiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have an opportunity to talk about that with him, about his—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00201:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 47.800000000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh really? Okay. In ’85, so that would have been two years and about three months or so. We spent a lot of time training for that. So when we flew, I thought we were pretty well prepared for that mission. But these kinds of delays and having missions inserted was not an unusual activity at the time. You kind of accepted it and you kind of ran with it. So I’m sure that when we were designated February ’83, our launch time was not April ’85. It was probably within the year or year and a half or so or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mentioned to you about patience, but Don Lind had waited since 1966."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he waited. He’d been waiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have an opportunity to talk about that with him, about his—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh sure. Yes, Don not only waited for those—he was a ’66 guy, so that’s nineteen years. He had not only waited those nineteen years patiently, but was at the same desk, as I understand it, that he had when he arrived in ’66. So he never changed desks in that time frame. Then he flew, he was satisfied, and then went back to the academic world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Well, share with us about the flight. Here it is, it has now come, the delays are over and you have an opportunity to be a part of this crew that’s going to go up. Can you tell us about those moments and about your first flight?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00201:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 43, "return_to_go": 52.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he waited. He’d been waiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have an opportunity to talk about that with him, about his—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh sure. Yes, Don not only waited for those—he was a ’66 guy, so that’s nineteen years. He had not only waited those nineteen years patiently, but was at the same desk, as I understand it, that he had when he arrived in ’66. So he never changed desks in that time frame. Then he flew, he was satisfied, and then went back to the academic world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Well, share with us about the flight. Here it is, it has now come, the delays are over and you have an opportunity to be a part of this crew that’s going to go up. Can you tell us about those moments and about your first flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure I was very excited. I think I was probably anxious, but certainly not afraid. I had great confidence in the team and sub teams. I was not of a thorough understanding of all of the science that was being conducted, because we had other areas of concentration, and as the pilot, my responsibility was maintaining the Orbiter to assure that it provided the right environment for the science to take place.\\n\\n But we had worked as a crew for a long period of time and it was a happy and exciting crew. We were still flying in flying suits. The only thing that differed from our training was that we would now be wearing this helmet to provide oxygen for us in case of loss of integrity. But the assumption was that you could maintain the integrity of the atmosphere in the cabin long enough to get the Orbiter back on the ground.\\n\\n We got in the Orbiter. Of the three, I never had any delays once we got in the Orbiter. So this was just the first of the three. We got in, and with one little hiccup, but it was just a delay, just a moment delay, and then we launched. It was similar to the simulation, but they left out the 5 percent and that was the “Wow!” [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The wow factor?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 38.87242379091423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think what we'll do is we'll just check to make sure this is recording before we carry on. Ok?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We could, if you like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, let's do it. Just to be sure, because this has happened to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. We're hoping for the best."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Ok. Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, you've arrived in Nigeria, you find yourself in Ibadan. Could you talk a little bit about Ibadan? What's Ibadan like?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 39.85824865657137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, let's do it. Just to be sure, because this has happened to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. We're hoping for the best."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Ok. Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, you've arrived in Nigeria, you find yourself in Ibadan. Could you talk a little bit about Ibadan? What's Ibadan like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Ibadan is a big city, so that's the first surprise. Well, no, it's the second surprise. The first surprise is getting out of the plane in Lagos and walking out of the plane and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You would have come down the stairs, right into the tarmac."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.73315154629438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boys and girls, mostly boys. But about a third, a third to half, were women. This was mostly boys, but a good, good percentage were also women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it a boarding school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a boarding school. Some students came from the town, from their homes in the town of Abeokuta, the city of Abeokuta. But most of them lived on campus. And at this point it was a strict English medium school, and Eluyemi was very strict about that, that students, even though they were almost all Yoruba, must speak English on campus. Of course they did, and they didn't. But as all students were, would be. But it was strict because English was a compulsory subject for HSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm-hmm. HSC being?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Higher School Certificate, which would be the entrance into university at this time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is thought to be equivalent to what was happening in Britain."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 19.703501718104867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a boarding school. Some students came from the town, from their homes in the town of Abeokuta, the city of Abeokuta. But most of them lived on campus. And at this point it was a strict English medium school, and Eluyemi was very strict about that, that students, even though they were almost all Yoruba, must speak English on campus. Of course they did, and they didn't. But as all students were, would be. But it was strict because English was a compulsory subject for HSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm-hmm. HSC being?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Higher School Certificate, which would be the entrance into university at this time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is thought to be equivalent to what was happening in Britain."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a par?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.226113020116522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Higher School Certificate, which would be the entrance into university at this time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is thought to be equivalent to what was happening in Britain."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a par?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. On a par with it. Right. And Ibadan University was the primary university, but there were others. There was one in the east at Nsukka, which was on an American model. But Ibadan was on a British model and as well as Ahmadu Bello University in Zaria, in the north, on a British model. So I lived on campus. I had a flat, an apartment, above one of the buildings that was the girls’ dormitory. They were on the ground floor and I was on a second floor and I had a separate, you know, entrance to my flat. There was another faculty flat that adjoined mine in the same building, and it was a relatively new building. So and the first, you know, my housing was quite comfortable. I had something like a one, two bedroom place with a dining room and a living room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you employ someone to help with the shopping and the cleaning?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.251236689018357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a par?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. On a par with it. Right. And Ibadan University was the primary university, but there were others. There was one in the east at Nsukka, which was on an American model. But Ibadan was on a British model and as well as Ahmadu Bello University in Zaria, in the north, on a British model. So I lived on campus. I had a flat, an apartment, above one of the buildings that was the girls’ dormitory. They were on the ground floor and I was on a second floor and I had a separate, you know, entrance to my flat. There was another faculty flat that adjoined mine in the same building, and it was a relatively new building. So and the first, you know, my housing was quite comfortable. I had something like a one, two bedroom place with a dining room and a living room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you employ someone to help with the shopping and the cleaning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did. I wouldn't have survived two years on my own cooking, so I hired a cook. Most of the cooks who were working for either other Peace Corps volunteers or other Americans or other Brits or other Canadians who were teaching in the various schools, because there was the Canadian equivalent of CUSO. And there was the British equivalent of VSO and then us Peace Corps volunteers, and then there were other contract teachers and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And in the faculty at your school, the African Church Grammar School, were there other expatriates?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.94581854335373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. On a par with it. Right. And Ibadan University was the primary university, but there were others. There was one in the east at Nsukka, which was on an American model. But Ibadan was on a British model and as well as Ahmadu Bello University in Zaria, in the north, on a British model. So I lived on campus. I had a flat, an apartment, above one of the buildings that was the girls’ dormitory. They were on the ground floor and I was on a second floor and I had a separate, you know, entrance to my flat. There was another faculty flat that adjoined mine in the same building, and it was a relatively new building. So and the first, you know, my housing was quite comfortable. I had something like a one, two bedroom place with a dining room and a living room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you employ someone to help with the shopping and the cleaning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did. I wouldn't have survived two years on my own cooking, so I hired a cook. Most of the cooks who were working for either other Peace Corps volunteers or other Americans or other Brits or other Canadians who were teaching in the various schools, because there was the Canadian equivalent of CUSO. And there was the British equivalent of VSO and then us Peace Corps volunteers, and then there were other contract teachers and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And in the faculty at your school, the African Church Grammar School, were there other expatriates?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Oh yes, there were. I was the only Peace Corps person in my school, but there was an Indian couple, Agarwal. And Patel, these were both, I think, Gujaratis one couple, a husband and wife and then a single man. And they were other, the other expat faculty members at this grammar school. All the others were Yorubas from Abeokuta or other parts of Yoruba land."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did the other expats live also, as you did, on the school compound?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.717576159281922, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did. I wouldn't have survived two years on my own cooking, so I hired a cook. Most of the cooks who were working for either other Peace Corps volunteers or other Americans or other Brits or other Canadians who were teaching in the various schools, because there was the Canadian equivalent of CUSO. And there was the British equivalent of VSO and then us Peace Corps volunteers, and then there were other contract teachers and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And in the faculty at your school, the African Church Grammar School, were there other expatriates?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Oh yes, there were. I was the only Peace Corps person in my school, but there was an Indian couple, Agarwal. And Patel, these were both, I think, Gujaratis one couple, a husband and wife and then a single man. And they were other, the other expat faculty members at this grammar school. All the others were Yorubas from Abeokuta or other parts of Yoruba land."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did the other expats live also, as you did, on the school compound?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they did, in a separate house. I think they were, if I remember correctly, I think they were in an extension or attachment of the principal's house, which was on campus as well, and they lived in one part of that house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the principal was Yoruba."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.575084621424358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Oh yes, there were. I was the only Peace Corps person in my school, but there was an Indian couple, Agarwal. And Patel, these were both, I think, Gujaratis one couple, a husband and wife and then a single man. And they were other, the other expat faculty members at this grammar school. All the others were Yorubas from Abeokuta or other parts of Yoruba land."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did the other expats live also, as you did, on the school compound?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they did, in a separate house. I think they were, if I remember correctly, I think they were in an extension or attachment of the principal's house, which was on campus as well, and they lived in one part of that house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the principal was Yoruba."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did most of the Yoruba faculty live on campus or in town?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.52787180158262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they did, in a separate house. I think they were, if I remember correctly, I think they were in an extension or attachment of the principal's house, which was on campus as well, and they lived in one part of that house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the principal was Yoruba."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did most of the Yoruba faculty live on campus or in town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They lived in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have a choice?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.364302001758467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did most of the Yoruba faculty live on campus or in town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They lived in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have a choice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they had a choice, but there wasn't any other housing for teachers on campus. It was the dormitory for the boys and for the girls. My apartment, one other apartment on the other side. And I'm not, I don't remember who stayed there. And then there's the other Indian colleagues who were on campus. Everybody else was off campus. So when I arrived, we got there, it was like late August and it was school break for two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. That's good."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.293668890842742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They lived in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have a choice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they had a choice, but there wasn't any other housing for teachers on campus. It was the dormitory for the boys and for the girls. My apartment, one other apartment on the other side. And I'm not, I don't remember who stayed there. And then there's the other Indian colleagues who were on campus. Everybody else was off campus. So when I arrived, we got there, it was like late August and it was school break for two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't, really?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.215187656491935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they had a choice, but there wasn't any other housing for teachers on campus. It was the dormitory for the boys and for the girls. My apartment, one other apartment on the other side. And I'm not, I don't remember who stayed there. And then there's the other Indian colleagues who were on campus. Everybody else was off campus. So when I arrived, we got there, it was like late August and it was school break for two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was terrible. That was the worst period of my two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made it so bad?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.127986284991039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was terrible. That was the worst period of my two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made it so bad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was at a total loss. I felt totally alone. I was thrown into a culture that I was desperate to try to understand, comprehend, and become a part of. And I felt totally unable to do so. I had as a youngster growing up, I don't know if I mentioned this in the earlier part of our interview, but when I was a counselor in a summer camp during my years in high school, starting when I was a freshman or a sophomore in high school, I was a camp counselor and tennis instructor. I suffered very serious homesickness. And, you know, it was a physical and mental psychological state. And I battled that all through high school and even during the years of college, I always had trouble in those transitions leaving home. And this was the most extreme of those because it wasn't like I could get on a train or a, you know, a drive in my car back home to see my family. And I realized I was there for two years, and I just didn't know if I was going to be able to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't have a function to distract from this."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.034550969124739, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was at a total loss. I felt totally alone. I was thrown into a culture that I was desperate to try to understand, comprehend, and become a part of. And I felt totally unable to do so. I had as a youngster growing up, I don't know if I mentioned this in the earlier part of our interview, but when I was a counselor in a summer camp during my years in high school, starting when I was a freshman or a sophomore in high school, I was a camp counselor and tennis instructor. I suffered very serious homesickness. And, you know, it was a physical and mental psychological state. And I battled that all through high school and even during the years of college, I always had trouble in those transitions leaving home. And this was the most extreme of those because it wasn't like I could get on a train or a, you know, a drive in my car back home to see my family. And I realized I was there for two years, and I just didn't know if I was going to be able to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't have a function to distract from this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had no function. That was the, that's what made it so difficult because I was dumped. You know, I felt like I was dumped in a place where no one knew me. Nobody cared. And I was far from Ibadan and from the people who had welcomed me warmly and that had been fine. But once I was alone in my new home for the next two years, it was daunting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was daunting because there were still two weeks before classes began. My colleagues would return and life would come to that campus. I was essentially in an abandoned site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right, it was all empty. Everybody had cleared out, they're on vacation."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.038389965694154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had no function. That was the, that's what made it so difficult because I was dumped. You know, I felt like I was dumped in a place where no one knew me. Nobody cared. And I was far from Ibadan and from the people who had welcomed me warmly and that had been fine. But once I was alone in my new home for the next two years, it was daunting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was daunting because there were still two weeks before classes began. My colleagues would return and life would come to that campus. I was essentially in an abandoned site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right, it was all empty. Everybody had cleared out, they're on vacation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody had cleared out. The principal was away on travels. And I knew absolutely no one and I know I had little or no Yoruba. I had learned something during training, but it was, you know, it's just too rudimentary. And so it was a very strong cultural shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far was your school from the center of Abeokuta?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.598211072993504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was daunting because there were still two weeks before classes began. My colleagues would return and life would come to that campus. I was essentially in an abandoned site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right, it was all empty. Everybody had cleared out, they're on vacation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody had cleared out. The principal was away on travels. And I knew absolutely no one and I know I had little or no Yoruba. I had learned something during training, but it was, you know, it's just too rudimentary. And so it was a very strong cultural shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far was your school from the center of Abeokuta?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in the city, but on the edge of the city. We were in what is called Ibara quarter. I-B-A-R-A. It's the Igbado part of town and the Igbado are the original inhabitants of that area. It was the Egba who came later, the E-G-B-A peoples who came and Oyo people who came later to settle Abeokuta as a refugee center and city. So we were specifically the address of the school and the area was Eta Iyalode. E-T-A. I-Y-A-L-O-D- E, which means crossroads of the market. The women, the woman, who was the head of the marketplace. It was near market area. And much later on, when I returned to do research on Yoruba art, Eta Iyalode and Ibara quarter became an important site for my research on the arts. But I had none, I knew nothing about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that time. That's right."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.220234525548337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody had cleared out. The principal was away on travels. And I knew absolutely no one and I know I had little or no Yoruba. I had learned something during training, but it was, you know, it's just too rudimentary. And so it was a very strong cultural shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far was your school from the center of Abeokuta?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in the city, but on the edge of the city. We were in what is called Ibara quarter. I-B-A-R-A. It's the Igbado part of town and the Igbado are the original inhabitants of that area. It was the Egba who came later, the E-G-B-A peoples who came and Oyo people who came later to settle Abeokuta as a refugee center and city. So we were specifically the address of the school and the area was Eta Iyalode. E-T-A. I-Y-A-L-O-D- E, which means crossroads of the market. The women, the woman, who was the head of the marketplace. It was near market area. And much later on, when I returned to do research on Yoruba art, Eta Iyalode and Ibara quarter became an important site for my research on the arts. But I had none, I knew nothing about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that time. That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. Absolutely nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find yourself getting out of your, your apartment was furnished when you got there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.099054969812761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing. Absolutely nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find yourself getting out of your, your apartment was furnished when you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, basically, I had to provide some things and I had to find somebody to help. And that took a little while. It wasn't immediate. So those first two weeks were the toughest. After that, everything, as soon as people started coming back to campus and I found somebody to help me with the cooking and Igbo chap because it was mostly the Igbo who were the domestic, so-called domestic, servants in the community, not Yoruba, but Igbo, I-G-B-O."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And once that life and activity started, I was OK, but I have to admit at certain points in those two weeks, I was ready to call the Peace Corps office and say, can't do it, have to go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I'm so glad you didn't."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7148826787811866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And once that life and activity started, I was OK, but I have to admit at certain points in those two weeks, I was ready to call the Peace Corps office and say, can't do it, have to go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I'm so glad you didn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm so glad I didn't either. I stuck it out, as I had several other years before and in different situations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and now it's ironic because I'm the one person. I'm the traveler in my family. I'm the one who's never at home. And yet in those early years, I was the one who was most affected by being away from home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. This says something about the strength of your family, though, and the close attachments, you know, which is a good thing."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.016536309756874, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm so glad I didn't either. I stuck it out, as I had several other years before and in different situations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and now it's ironic because I'm the one person. I'm the traveler in my family. I'm the one who's never at home. And yet in those early years, I was the one who was most affected by being away from home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. This says something about the strength of your family, though, and the close attachments, you know, which is a good thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were other Peace Corps volunteers in Abeokuta not connected with your school?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.351707010840971, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and now it's ironic because I'm the one person. I'm the traveler in my family. I'm the one who's never at home. And yet in those early years, I was the one who was most affected by being away from home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. This says something about the strength of your family, though, and the close attachments, you know, which is a good thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were other Peace Corps volunteers in Abeokuta not connected with your school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There were, I think, it was one other woman who was in another school. And then there was somebody who was in a smaller town, not too far away, but it was their vacation time. So everybody had fled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even the Peace Corps volunteers, they're all gone?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7241189009344122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were other Peace Corps volunteers in Abeokuta not connected with your school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There were, I think, it was one other woman who was in another school. And then there was somebody who was in a smaller town, not too far away, but it was their vacation time. So everybody had fled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even the Peace Corps volunteers, they're all gone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, everybody. They were all gone. Of course, there was a thriving community around me, but I had, I wasn't able to connect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're on the outside of it still, yeah."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1379098899271245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There were, I think, it was one other woman who was in another school. And then there was somebody who was in a smaller town, not too far away, but it was their vacation time. So everybody had fled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even the Peace Corps volunteers, they're all gone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, everybody. They were all gone. Of course, there was a thriving community around me, but I had, I wasn't able to connect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're on the outside of it still, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you were at home in your apartment, up on the second floor there. Did you have electricity available to you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.676145253672324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, I had running water and electricity. It was a newly constructed building, as a dormitory and as flats for faculty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Concrete block?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, concrete block. And it was well constructed. It was a good school. You know, Eluyemi was, um, he was an impressive character, very strict and very firm and very accomplished in what he was trying to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go into the classroom. Two weeks later, students start arriving."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.306828059635915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, I had running water and electricity. It was a newly constructed building, as a dormitory and as flats for faculty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Concrete block?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, concrete block. And it was well constructed. It was a good school. You know, Eluyemi was, um, he was an impressive character, very strict and very firm and very accomplished in what he was trying to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go into the classroom. Two weeks later, students start arriving."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Faculty pours in."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.896475621817683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, concrete block. And it was well constructed. It was a good school. You know, Eluyemi was, um, he was an impressive character, very strict and very firm and very accomplished in what he was trying to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go into the classroom. Two weeks later, students start arriving."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Faculty pours in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I meet my colleagues and things start to improve. I like my colleagues. I'm learning to teach. I've developed a audio lingual method approach to teaching French, and I started making my own textbook of conversation so that it was a kind of call and response. It was mainly to have them learn by speaking first and then writing grammar were to come later. And it was basic, very elementary kind of French. And then I was also doing some English and English literature classes as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what kind of English lit you were exposing the students to?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.279599533108251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I meet my colleagues and things start to improve. I like my colleagues. I'm learning to teach. I've developed a audio lingual method approach to teaching French, and I started making my own textbook of conversation so that it was a kind of call and response. It was mainly to have them learn by speaking first and then writing grammar were to come later. And it was basic, very elementary kind of French. And then I was also doing some English and English literature classes as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what kind of English lit you were exposing the students to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I don't. Those were not things that were attracting me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, you know, I realized pretty early on that I didn't want to become a language teacher. I tried to do the best I could in the time that I had there, but other interests started pulling me in other directions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we'll spend most of our time talking about those other interests. But I'm still curious about some things in your class."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.088443925675834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I don't. Those were not things that were attracting me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, you know, I realized pretty early on that I didn't want to become a language teacher. I tried to do the best I could in the time that I had there, but other interests started pulling me in other directions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we'll spend most of our time talking about those other interests. But I'm still curious about some things in your class."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You invented your own system?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.987159917417593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, you know, I realized pretty early on that I didn't want to become a language teacher. I tried to do the best I could in the time that I had there, but other interests started pulling me in other directions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we'll spend most of our time talking about those other interests. But I'm still curious about some things in your class."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You invented your own system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An audio lingual of conversation first and then grammar analysis. Were you provided with books, textbooks for French?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.652399908241769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You invented your own system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An audio lingual of conversation first and then grammar analysis. Were you provided with books, textbooks for French?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I had. I think I had something from the training program because we were doing student teaching. We had to organize some classes during the time we were at T.C. [Teachers College] and at Barnard, because we were housed at Barnard. And we had some classes on the, most of our classes where at Teachers College, but also at the university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that included some student teaching."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.2804443424908545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An audio lingual of conversation first and then grammar analysis. Were you provided with books, textbooks for French?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I had. I think I had something from the training program because we were doing student teaching. We had to organize some classes during the time we were at T.C. [Teachers College] and at Barnard, because we were housed at Barnard. And we had some classes on the, most of our classes where at Teachers College, but also at the university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that included some student teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. Right. So that was our rudimentary training as secondary school teachers because most of us were not education majors as college students, we were in subjects of various kinds. But I enjoyed the teaching. One of the things that I may have said about my experience at Hamilton that I very much appreciated was their emphasis upon public speaking, on rhetoric and public speaking. This was a core element of the curriculum at Hamilton, and I became a good public speaker and that helped as a teacher, of course. So, so that was, the teaching was good. I enjoyed it. And despite the no speaking of Yoruba on campus, I encouraged my students to teach me Yoruba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Outside of class?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.978271491656505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I had. I think I had something from the training program because we were doing student teaching. We had to organize some classes during the time we were at T.C. [Teachers College] and at Barnard, because we were housed at Barnard. And we had some classes on the, most of our classes where at Teachers College, but also at the university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that included some student teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. Right. So that was our rudimentary training as secondary school teachers because most of us were not education majors as college students, we were in subjects of various kinds. But I enjoyed the teaching. One of the things that I may have said about my experience at Hamilton that I very much appreciated was their emphasis upon public speaking, on rhetoric and public speaking. This was a core element of the curriculum at Hamilton, and I became a good public speaker and that helped as a teacher, of course. So, so that was, the teaching was good. I enjoyed it. And despite the no speaking of Yoruba on campus, I encouraged my students to teach me Yoruba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Outside of class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Outside the class and out of hearing of the principal. And that's, of course, was giving me confidence to then enter the community that I was living in, and I made friends with a number of the Yoruba, my Yoruba colleagues. I remember, well, one of them invited me to a luncheon at the local sports club and this was a hangover from the British presence in Abeokuta."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the Yoruba were welcome in it."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.337820976209198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, and it had become a Yoruba club, essentially. And I was also interested in it because it had a tennis court, you see, and I was a serious tennis player."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But this Yoruba colleague invited me to lunch. And this was soon after classes had started, maybe two or three weeks into the first session of teaching. And I ordered a dish called jollof rice because I wanted to become Yoruba, you see. So I didn't order the English menu. It was the Yoruba menu, okay?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was jollof rice. But it was seasoned as a Yoruba would season it, that is, with lots of pepper and which I thought was tomatoes. Well, I was in for a surprise and I started tearing and having to blow my nose and Yoruba friend, my new Yoruba colleague friend, he never said anything, but I'm sure he felt that I was crying for home, that I was sad and that, because, you know, pepper is pepper. You know, you don't cry unless you're sad about something. So anyway, so this was one of my early experiences of, you know, taking in Yoruba cuisine and making another kind of an adjustment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you have beer to go along with that jollof rice, wash it down?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.293606143468145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was jollof rice. But it was seasoned as a Yoruba would season it, that is, with lots of pepper and which I thought was tomatoes. Well, I was in for a surprise and I started tearing and having to blow my nose and Yoruba friend, my new Yoruba colleague friend, he never said anything, but I'm sure he felt that I was crying for home, that I was sad and that, because, you know, pepper is pepper. You know, you don't cry unless you're sad about something. So anyway, so this was one of my early experiences of, you know, taking in Yoruba cuisine and making another kind of an adjustment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you have beer to go along with that jollof rice, wash it down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I tried. But that just spread it around further so that it was affecting every part of my body. All of this goes into now my own research on sensiotics, you see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These are the things I think about now because they are actually some of the deepest, strongest memories of cultural experience and cultural, different cultural ways and how we adapt to them or don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your initial experience of encountering that wall of heat when you got off the plane."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.437340159409048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I tried. But that just spread it around further so that it was affecting every part of my body. All of this goes into now my own research on sensiotics, you see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These are the things I think about now because they are actually some of the deepest, strongest memories of cultural experience and cultural, different cultural ways and how we adapt to them or don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your initial experience of encountering that wall of heat when you got off the plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the smells of the marketplace and the wood fires. And now the taste and the bite of that extremely hot pepper."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.597044621565608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These are the things I think about now because they are actually some of the deepest, strongest memories of cultural experience and cultural, different cultural ways and how we adapt to them or don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your initial experience of encountering that wall of heat when you got off the plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the smells of the marketplace and the wood fires. And now the taste and the bite of that extremely hot pepper."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, right. And I'm sure the sounds of the city of Ibadan and of Abeokuta are also things that that I was having to process and think about and have them become part of me. And these initial challenges of adaptation to a new cultural milieu is one of the key lessons of sensiotics. That is, when I go to do research and study in a new place, I try to make extensive notes and document with film and photographs, all of the things that are so unusual, so different in those initial encounters because once they become naturalized, once they become ordinary, you don't notice them anymore. You don't think about them. And those are some of the key insights that sensiotics has brought me in subsequent experiences. So, so I started learning more Yoruba as a volunteer, that is, a Peace Corps volunteer. I was also expected to volunteer for other jobs at the college, and so I was appointed as games master, which in the British system is the athletic director, okay? So I was in charge of student sports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those sports were? Not baseball."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.885605135072897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the smells of the marketplace and the wood fires. And now the taste and the bite of that extremely hot pepper."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, right. And I'm sure the sounds of the city of Ibadan and of Abeokuta are also things that that I was having to process and think about and have them become part of me. And these initial challenges of adaptation to a new cultural milieu is one of the key lessons of sensiotics. That is, when I go to do research and study in a new place, I try to make extensive notes and document with film and photographs, all of the things that are so unusual, so different in those initial encounters because once they become naturalized, once they become ordinary, you don't notice them anymore. You don't think about them. And those are some of the key insights that sensiotics has brought me in subsequent experiences. So, so I started learning more Yoruba as a volunteer, that is, a Peace Corps volunteer. I was also expected to volunteer for other jobs at the college, and so I was appointed as games master, which in the British system is the athletic director, okay? So I was in charge of student sports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those sports were? Not baseball."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the sports were not baseball. Well, soccer was the big sport in the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which they would have called football."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.206227927858773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, right. And I'm sure the sounds of the city of Ibadan and of Abeokuta are also things that that I was having to process and think about and have them become part of me. And these initial challenges of adaptation to a new cultural milieu is one of the key lessons of sensiotics. That is, when I go to do research and study in a new place, I try to make extensive notes and document with film and photographs, all of the things that are so unusual, so different in those initial encounters because once they become naturalized, once they become ordinary, you don't notice them anymore. You don't think about them. And those are some of the key insights that sensiotics has brought me in subsequent experiences. So, so I started learning more Yoruba as a volunteer, that is, a Peace Corps volunteer. I was also expected to volunteer for other jobs at the college, and so I was appointed as games master, which in the British system is the athletic director, okay? So I was in charge of student sports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those sports were? Not baseball."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the sports were not baseball. Well, soccer was the big sport in the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which they would have called football."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which they called football, right, and which I knew nothing about. So I was the football coach. Luckily, they were great players and they knew all the rules. So I just kind of was there for the games and for practices and, you know, for, you know, preparations and so on. But I had a Yoruba colleague on the faculty who helped me with that. Because of my interest in tennis, there was an open space not too far from the dormitory and my flat, that looked like a likely spot for a tennis court. So I had it built. I had a tennis court built and I got my, I got Hamilton College to donate the tennis net, which they shipped over. And we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you fund the construction of the court?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.769859983345368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, the principal gave me some funds and they were doing some construction of another building. So there was a tractor available and I just had him level the space large enough and I put in the posts and sunk them in concrete. And we had a tennis court. However, and we were, I thought it would work fine because the soil in Abeokuta and much of Yoruba land is lateritic soil, it's clay-based iron rich soil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Red."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Red. Looks like a clay tennis court. However, I didn't, it wasn't fine enough, even though I had a steamroller come and steamroll the thing down. The grains were still too large, so it was only a semi-functioning tennis court and we had no money to pave it with anything more permanent. But it was my attempt as games master to add another sport to the college. And I was also the coach of the volleyball team, a new volleyball team, and I knew something about volleyball. So I was able to do some coaching and in fact brought a couple of volleyball, American volleyball strategies, like spiking and stuff to the game that the other teams didn't know about. And so we had the winning team in the town during my two years. So those were my efforts at school besides the teaching. Early on, I think in the first three or four months, on a trip to Ibadan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was how far away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about an hour and a half by road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how would you get there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.52206664816152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Red. Looks like a clay tennis court. However, I didn't, it wasn't fine enough, even though I had a steamroller come and steamroll the thing down. The grains were still too large, so it was only a semi-functioning tennis court and we had no money to pave it with anything more permanent. But it was my attempt as games master to add another sport to the college. And I was also the coach of the volleyball team, a new volleyball team, and I knew something about volleyball. So I was able to do some coaching and in fact brought a couple of volleyball, American volleyball strategies, like spiking and stuff to the game that the other teams didn't know about. And so we had the winning team in the town during my two years. So those were my efforts at school besides the teaching. Early on, I think in the first three or four months, on a trip to Ibadan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was how far away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about an hour and a half by road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how would you get there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd take public transportation or long distance, yeah, either long distance taxis or sometimes busses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a taxi, of course, was not our concept of a taxi here."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.46896294240169, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about an hour and a half by road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how would you get there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd take public transportation or long distance, yeah, either long distance taxis or sometimes busses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a taxi, of course, was not our concept of a taxi here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Well, these are communal taxis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right, you sit and wait until it fills up with enough passengers."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.298847713779654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd take public transportation or long distance, yeah, either long distance taxis or sometimes busses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a taxi, of course, was not our concept of a taxi here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Well, these are communal taxis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right, you sit and wait until it fills up with enough passengers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. When it fills up, right. And it's, yeah, and it's over full, you know, because it's a four-seater car that takes maybe six or eight people. Yeah, yeah. So those, that's how I would get to Ibadan, but at a certain point, and I can't remember exactly when. But maybe after the first three or four months I bought myself a motorcycle. Wasn't supposed to have it, but I got it, and they were kind of flexible on that matter. But they were concerned about road accidents and safety and so on. But I had a small Honda 50 and I wouldn't, I would call it a motorbike. It's not any motorcycle. It's like a Harley person would say, this one's a joke."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I too had a Honda 50, top speed 21 miles an hour."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.879122449678616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Foss was one and Phil Stevens, who taught somewhere in Yorubaland and then stopped his teaching and was shifted to the Department of Antiquities and did all the work that established the museum and the site of Esie where these sandstone carvings are. So and Phil Stevens is somebody that I corresponded with and have worked with ever since. He's retired now, but he taught for many years at SUNY Buffalo in the anthropology department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what got you interested in this? Was Biobaku at the University of Ibadan? How did you find out about him? How did you somehow?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I don't know. Somebody, I think somebody in the Peace Corps office suggested that I should meet him, and he should know that I was teaching in Abeokuta. Because he, as a son of Abeokuta, he was very interested in promoting that as an academic center with many schools and to establishing its place in the history of Yoruba land. And so I was there and was interested and had lots of enthusiasm. And so we tried to put a project together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it sounds like it didn't come to fruition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you continued teaching instead."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.421247166309573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I don't know. Somebody, I think somebody in the Peace Corps office suggested that I should meet him, and he should know that I was teaching in Abeokuta. Because he, as a son of Abeokuta, he was very interested in promoting that as an academic center with many schools and to establishing its place in the history of Yoruba land. And so I was there and was interested and had lots of enthusiasm. And so we tried to put a project together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it sounds like it didn't come to fruition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you continued teaching instead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I continued teaching. Right. But I would work on that during school breaks for, you know, for that first year that I was there. But by the end of the first year, it was clear that it wasn't going to happen. He maybe he went overseas or he was caught up in other projects that he was working on. And so it just never, it never took off. We got it to a proposal point and we submitted it to the government, but then no funding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say that you worked on that project during school breaks for that first year, what do you mean? What was your work in that regard?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.023607962566192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you continued teaching instead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I continued teaching. Right. But I would work on that during school breaks for, you know, for that first year that I was there. But by the end of the first year, it was clear that it wasn't going to happen. He maybe he went overseas or he was caught up in other projects that he was working on. And so it just never, it never took off. We got it to a proposal point and we submitted it to the government, but then no funding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say that you worked on that project during school breaks for that first year, what do you mean? What was your work in that regard?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was, um. It was going to meet him in Ibadan and talk about the project and what we wanted to have happen in the museum. And then it was my contacting government officials in Abeokuta to try to get them to move on this on this proposal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of political layers."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6928977361846576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I continued teaching. Right. But I would work on that during school breaks for, you know, for that first year that I was there. But by the end of the first year, it was clear that it wasn't going to happen. He maybe he went overseas or he was caught up in other projects that he was working on. And so it just never, it never took off. We got it to a proposal point and we submitted it to the government, but then no funding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say that you worked on that project during school breaks for that first year, what do you mean? What was your work in that regard?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was, um. It was going to meet him in Ibadan and talk about the project and what we wanted to have happen in the museum. And then it was my contacting government officials in Abeokuta to try to get them to move on this on this proposal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of political layers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and nothing came of it. That's all I can say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it planted a seed."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.436553040205175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was, um. It was going to meet him in Ibadan and talk about the project and what we wanted to have happen in the museum. And then it was my contacting government officials in Abeokuta to try to get them to move on this on this proposal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of political layers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and nothing came of it. That's all I can say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it planted a seed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Planted the seed, and I don't know if there is a museum in Abeokuta now. I don't know. But that's one of the things we tried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were up in Ibadan talking with Biobaku, I'm assuming you were talking with him in English."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.262836711339084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and nothing came of it. That's all I can say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it planted a seed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Planted the seed, and I don't know if there is a museum in Abeokuta now. I don't know. But that's one of the things we tried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were up in Ibadan talking with Biobaku, I'm assuming you were talking with him in English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you were at the sports club in Abeokuta with your Yoruba colleagues, was the language of the club English, among the Yoruba there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.855353964616152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you were at the sports club in Abeokuta with your Yoruba colleagues, was the language of the club English, among the Yoruba there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, pretty much. Because they were all educated. They were either, you know, they were teachers in secondary school or the other members of the club were, you know, government officials and lawyers and doctors. You know, it was the male, and it was male. It was a men's club. And the British, you know, out of the British tradition, and they were the elite in the community. They were the professionals or the government officials because the club itself was in an area that was known as the GRA, the government reservation area, where colonial houses had been built for the colonial officials. And along with that, there was a swimming pool and, you know, a golf course and a tennis court."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All British?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Right. Exactly. And then inherited by the Yoruba and the Nigerians who took over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your first year eventually comes to an end?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.617059960684614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, pretty much. Because they were all educated. They were either, you know, they were teachers in secondary school or the other members of the club were, you know, government officials and lawyers and doctors. You know, it was the male, and it was male. It was a men's club. And the British, you know, out of the British tradition, and they were the elite in the community. They were the professionals or the government officials because the club itself was in an area that was known as the GRA, the government reservation area, where colonial houses had been built for the colonial officials. And along with that, there was a swimming pool and, you know, a golf course and a tennis court."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All British?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Right. Exactly. And then inherited by the Yoruba and the Nigerians who took over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your first year eventually comes to an end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, yeah. But also, I don't remember the timing of it because those are the things with about the museum come fairly early on, and it's by the latter part of my first year that I shift my vacation activities to setting up vacation arts camps for primary school kids in Abeokuta."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Primary school? So these are not the students that you're working with."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.463399956316238, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Right. Exactly. And then inherited by the Yoruba and the Nigerians who took over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your first year eventually comes to an end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, yeah. But also, I don't remember the timing of it because those are the things with about the museum come fairly early on, and it's by the latter part of my first year that I shift my vacation activities to setting up vacation arts camps for primary school kids in Abeokuta."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Primary school? So these are not the students that you're working with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. These are younger kids in other schools, other primary schools. And I had a number of other volunteers. One of the other Peace Corps volunteers who was there. And VSO, one or two VSO volunteers, and other Yoruba colleagues, teacher colleagues who were interested in art to set up these art camps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is great. And this is your idea?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.403777729240264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, yeah. But also, I don't remember the timing of it because those are the things with about the museum come fairly early on, and it's by the latter part of my first year that I shift my vacation activities to setting up vacation arts camps for primary school kids in Abeokuta."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Primary school? So these are not the students that you're working with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. These are younger kids in other schools, other primary schools. And I had a number of other volunteers. One of the other Peace Corps volunteers who was there. And VSO, one or two VSO volunteers, and other Yoruba colleagues, teacher colleagues who were interested in art to set up these art camps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is great. And this is your idea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, this is my idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do, when you say an arts camp?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.226419699155848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. These are younger kids in other schools, other primary schools. And I had a number of other volunteers. One of the other Peace Corps volunteers who was there. And VSO, one or two VSO volunteers, and other Yoruba colleagues, teacher colleagues who were interested in art to set up these art camps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is great. And this is your idea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, this is my idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do, when you say an arts camp?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we would bring the kids to one of the schools where the facilities were emptied or the kids had gone because they were coming to a secondary school campus. But they were the primary school kids in town. So they would come in the morning and we would do various kinds of arts and crafts projects and games for them during the day. That's what we ran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these children would be Yoruba speakers. This is all happening in Yoruba?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.140466332395386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, this is my idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do, when you say an arts camp?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we would bring the kids to one of the schools where the facilities were emptied or the kids had gone because they were coming to a secondary school campus. But they were the primary school kids in town. So they would come in the morning and we would do various kinds of arts and crafts projects and games for them during the day. That's what we ran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these children would be Yoruba speakers. This is all happening in Yoruba?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it's all happening in Yoruba. Yeah. Or and many of them were in schools again where they were trying to push English because that was the entrance into the academic secondary schools since English was still a compulsory subject at any stage, you see. So, yeah, so again, I was expressing my own interest in the arts and bringing that to my students or to younger Yoruba in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said at its height there were how many kids?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.173415225179488, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it's all happening in Yoruba. Yeah. Or and many of them were in schools again where they were trying to push English because that was the entrance into the academic secondary schools since English was still a compulsory subject at any stage, you see. So, yeah, so again, I was expressing my own interest in the arts and bringing that to my students or to younger Yoruba in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said at its height there were how many kids?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we had three or four going in different primary schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, simultaneously?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Simultaneously for a two-week period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And these kids would go home at night? They weren't staying in the boarding facility?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.303794694643875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we had three or four going in different primary schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, simultaneously?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Simultaneously for a two-week period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And these kids would go home at night? They weren't staying in the boarding facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of arts things would you do?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.559771882937639, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Simultaneously for a two-week period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And these kids would go home at night? They weren't staying in the boarding facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of arts things would you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was basically painting and paper, you know, working with paper, constructing things with paper. We also we would make paper masks and then they would do some performances with those. Coloring. Coloring kinds of projects. There wasn't any kind of serious sculpture, it was all pretty much two-dimensional work that they were doing. And we also, I don't remember, I don't have much of a sense of the details of the curriculum, and I don't know if I saved any of the materials that we produced because I had, you know, had booklets, handbooks, you know, for the camps and that kind of thing. And but I haven't thought about it in a long time. So I don't remember the details very well. And then it was games, you know, it was arts and games of various kinds, sports for the younger kids, and we would have meals for them, one meal during the day, it was prepared for them as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got funding for this."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.955302092152932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of arts things would you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was basically painting and paper, you know, working with paper, constructing things with paper. We also we would make paper masks and then they would do some performances with those. Coloring. Coloring kinds of projects. There wasn't any kind of serious sculpture, it was all pretty much two-dimensional work that they were doing. And we also, I don't remember, I don't have much of a sense of the details of the curriculum, and I don't know if I saved any of the materials that we produced because I had, you know, had booklets, handbooks, you know, for the camps and that kind of thing. And but I haven't thought about it in a long time. So I don't remember the details very well. And then it was games, you know, it was arts and games of various kinds, sports for the younger kids, and we would have meals for them, one meal during the day, it was prepared for them as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got funding for this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got donations. People, you know, put in time. They volunteered to help me out a little bit. We had some funds. Not much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd need some funds to feed that one meal."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.22876801500362, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got donations. People, you know, put in time. They volunteered to help me out a little bit. We had some funds. Not much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd need some funds to feed that one meal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, and I think that was coming from our salaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were also giving your own free time because if this was on school break, you could have gone off to Ibadan, Lagos."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.031964461115134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, and I think that was coming from our salaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were also giving your own free time because if this was on school break, you could have gone off to Ibadan, Lagos."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, I did that too. I did that on some of them. I didn't do this all of my, you know, two-week vacations during the two years. But I did it for I would estimate maybe about a, maybe three or four of the two week, the shorter vacations, and during that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I'm recalling that somewhere around December, there was a bigger six week, six or seven week school break."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.035516067905704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were also giving your own free time because if this was on school break, you could have gone off to Ibadan, Lagos."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, I did that too. I did that on some of them. I didn't do this all of my, you know, two-week vacations during the two years. But I did it for I would estimate maybe about a, maybe three or four of the two week, the shorter vacations, and during that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I'm recalling that somewhere around December, there was a bigger six week, six or seven week school break."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right. Well, there was one time when we went to Ibadan for a kind of refresher course in French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were called in by Peace Corps to do that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 21.150573408784116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, I did that too. I did that on some of them. I didn't do this all of my, you know, two-week vacations during the two years. But I did it for I would estimate maybe about a, maybe three or four of the two week, the shorter vacations, and during that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I'm recalling that somewhere around December, there was a bigger six week, six or seven week school break."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right. Well, there was one time when we went to Ibadan for a kind of refresher course in French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were called in by Peace Corps to do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And my colleague here at UW was one of the teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding, and who was that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.185893097264337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And my colleague here at UW was one of the teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding, and who was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is Marquat, Idris. Idris Marquat, who's now retired, but who lives just down the street here. He was on the faculty at the University of Ibadan, teaching us French teachers, because he remembers me from then. So when I was recruited to come to UW, he was one of the first people to see me at my interview."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So that was a, you know, a kind of in-service training that Peace Corps organized for us as teachers. But that was only the only one. There are shorter vacations we had to ourselves, so I use them for the museum project, then the arts camps. And then I did some traveling. As I said, I had my Honda 50. So there was one vacation. It must have been the longer vacation, but I'm not sure, when I took the train north from Abeokuta up to Zaria, put the Honda on it. And then when I got into the north and I had my Honda and drove around to Zaria and to Kano, and, uh, I think it was just Zaria in Kano. I didn't get up to Sokoto, but I explored the north."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The north, of course, being a Muslim area. Quite a different culture."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.748016169462144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So that was a, you know, a kind of in-service training that Peace Corps organized for us as teachers. But that was only the only one. There are shorter vacations we had to ourselves, so I use them for the museum project, then the arts camps. And then I did some traveling. As I said, I had my Honda 50. So there was one vacation. It must have been the longer vacation, but I'm not sure, when I took the train north from Abeokuta up to Zaria, put the Honda on it. And then when I got into the north and I had my Honda and drove around to Zaria and to Kano, and, uh, I think it was just Zaria in Kano. I didn't get up to Sokoto, but I explored the north."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The north, of course, being a Muslim area. Quite a different culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, very different. Very different. Yep. But I wanted to get a sense of the country. I never did make it to the east during my two years in the Peace Corps, but I did later on. I also, with another contract doctor who was working at the hospital, at Aro Hospital. He was African- American doctor from Seattle. I'm blanking on his name right now, but we decided we wanted to take a trip to Ouagadougou."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And because of the name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah yes, in what was then called Upper Volta. Today, Burkina Faso."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.831129077180158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, very different. Very different. Yep. But I wanted to get a sense of the country. I never did make it to the east during my two years in the Peace Corps, but I did later on. I also, with another contract doctor who was working at the hospital, at Aro Hospital. He was African- American doctor from Seattle. I'm blanking on his name right now, but we decided we wanted to take a trip to Ouagadougou."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And because of the name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah yes, in what was then called Upper Volta. Today, Burkina Faso."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So we had his car, he had a car."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And tell me again, what was his capacity?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.371764292815012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So we had his car, he had a car."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And tell me again, what was his capacity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a doctor at Aro Hospital, A-R-O Hospital, which was a mental hospital on the outskirts of Abeokuta, very famous for its work on indigenous psychiatric treatments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Tolani Asuni was one of the key Yoruba doctors there who went on to a distinguished career in the World Health Organization, and he was one of my tennis partners. Asuni is his name, Asuni Tolani, Asuni. And this was a hospital that had been founded by T.O. [Thomas Adeoye] Lambo, another Yoruba psychiatrist doctor trained in UK. Lambo. Lambo, yeah, that's it. Yeah, so we took this trip in my friend's car. His name might come to me if I think about this. And so we drove from Abeokuta down to Lagos and then across the coastal road through what was still called Dahomey. Got to Togo and to Lomé. And then headed north from Lomé."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, up through Togo?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.857515880905568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a doctor at Aro Hospital, A-R-O Hospital, which was a mental hospital on the outskirts of Abeokuta, very famous for its work on indigenous psychiatric treatments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Tolani Asuni was one of the key Yoruba doctors there who went on to a distinguished career in the World Health Organization, and he was one of my tennis partners. Asuni is his name, Asuni Tolani, Asuni. And this was a hospital that had been founded by T.O. [Thomas Adeoye] Lambo, another Yoruba psychiatrist doctor trained in UK. Lambo. Lambo, yeah, that's it. Yeah, so we took this trip in my friend's car. His name might come to me if I think about this. And so we drove from Abeokuta down to Lagos and then across the coastal road through what was still called Dahomey. Got to Togo and to Lomé. And then headed north from Lomé."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, up through Togo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, up through Togo. The pavement ended at the city limits of Lomé. And after that, it was a dirt road, washboard road, all the way to Ouagadougou. By the time we got to Ouagadougou, the car takes finished. And one of our, one of the members of our trip, there were three of us. One was ill the whole time, so it was not. It was not a very pleasant trip when we make it to Ouagadougou."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many days did it take you to get up there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.286128756561743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Tolani Asuni was one of the key Yoruba doctors there who went on to a distinguished career in the World Health Organization, and he was one of my tennis partners. Asuni is his name, Asuni Tolani, Asuni. And this was a hospital that had been founded by T.O. [Thomas Adeoye] Lambo, another Yoruba psychiatrist doctor trained in UK. Lambo. Lambo, yeah, that's it. Yeah, so we took this trip in my friend's car. His name might come to me if I think about this. And so we drove from Abeokuta down to Lagos and then across the coastal road through what was still called Dahomey. Got to Togo and to Lomé. And then headed north from Lomé."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, up through Togo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, up through Togo. The pavement ended at the city limits of Lomé. And after that, it was a dirt road, washboard road, all the way to Ouagadougou. By the time we got to Ouagadougou, the car takes finished. And one of our, one of the members of our trip, there were three of us. One was ill the whole time, so it was not. It was not a very pleasant trip when we make it to Ouagadougou."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many days did it take you to get up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took us three days, three or four days of constant driving to make it up to Ouagadougou. And then we arrive in Ouagadougou and the pavement starts again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is now early 1965?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.42903195173527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, up through Togo. The pavement ended at the city limits of Lomé. And after that, it was a dirt road, washboard road, all the way to Ouagadougou. By the time we got to Ouagadougou, the car takes finished. And one of our, one of the members of our trip, there were three of us. One was ill the whole time, so it was not. It was not a very pleasant trip when we make it to Ouagadougou."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many days did it take you to get up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took us three days, three or four days of constant driving to make it up to Ouagadougou. And then we arrive in Ouagadougou and the pavement starts again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is now early 1965?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is five, 1965. And the American ambassador was Elliott Skinner, famous anthropologist, African-American anthropologist from Columbia University. We got to meet him. We told him we had made it all the way there, but the car was not going to get us back. So he put us up in the embassy guesthouse, where we had access to the embassy swimming pool, and then tried to figure out how we were going to get back in time for our teaching and for his work. It just so happened that the day or two after we arrived and were there at the embassy, the plane that brings food and supplies to the American diplomatic corps had arrived from Lagos and it was a freight plane, so they unloaded all of their goodies that they were going to be living on for the next couple of months. And it was an empty plane. So they say, well, why don't we just put your car inside the plane, fly you back to Lagos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Put the whole car inside?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.698924390816966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took us three days, three or four days of constant driving to make it up to Ouagadougou. And then we arrive in Ouagadougou and the pavement starts again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is now early 1965?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is five, 1965. And the American ambassador was Elliott Skinner, famous anthropologist, African-American anthropologist from Columbia University. We got to meet him. We told him we had made it all the way there, but the car was not going to get us back. So he put us up in the embassy guesthouse, where we had access to the embassy swimming pool, and then tried to figure out how we were going to get back in time for our teaching and for his work. It just so happened that the day or two after we arrived and were there at the embassy, the plane that brings food and supplies to the American diplomatic corps had arrived from Lagos and it was a freight plane, so they unloaded all of their goodies that they were going to be living on for the next couple of months. And it was an empty plane. So they say, well, why don't we just put your car inside the plane, fly you back to Lagos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Put the whole car inside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They put us and the car inside the plane, flew us back to Lagos, and then we managed to get back up to Abeokuta. So that was our Ouagadougou adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you see of Ouagadougou?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.887693767574406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is five, 1965. And the American ambassador was Elliott Skinner, famous anthropologist, African-American anthropologist from Columbia University. We got to meet him. We told him we had made it all the way there, but the car was not going to get us back. So he put us up in the embassy guesthouse, where we had access to the embassy swimming pool, and then tried to figure out how we were going to get back in time for our teaching and for his work. It just so happened that the day or two after we arrived and were there at the embassy, the plane that brings food and supplies to the American diplomatic corps had arrived from Lagos and it was a freight plane, so they unloaded all of their goodies that they were going to be living on for the next couple of months. And it was an empty plane. So they say, well, why don't we just put your car inside the plane, fly you back to Lagos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Put the whole car inside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They put us and the car inside the plane, flew us back to Lagos, and then we managed to get back up to Abeokuta. So that was our Ouagadougou adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you see of Ouagadougou?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we saw the guesthouse, we saw the swimming pool. We saw some of the streets and some of the French restaurants in Ouagadougou. So that was it, because we only spent maybe about three or four days and then the plane was flying back. So we took it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it had taken you so long to get there. You ate up a lot of available time."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.097437519527118, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They put us and the car inside the plane, flew us back to Lagos, and then we managed to get back up to Abeokuta. So that was our Ouagadougou adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you see of Ouagadougou?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we saw the guesthouse, we saw the swimming pool. We saw some of the streets and some of the French restaurants in Ouagadougou. So that was it, because we only spent maybe about three or four days and then the plane was flying back. So we took it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it had taken you so long to get there. You ate up a lot of available time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Took about a week to get there. Yeah, that was an adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you got back. That must have been the long holiday, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.330486132807907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we saw the guesthouse, we saw the swimming pool. We saw some of the streets and some of the French restaurants in Ouagadougou. So that was it, because we only spent maybe about three or four days and then the plane was flying back. So we took it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it had taken you so long to get there. You ate up a lot of available time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Took about a week to get there. Yeah, that was an adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you got back. That must have been the long holiday, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because the weather. I remember the weather and that's the dry period and it was there was some harmattan, so that would have been January and December, January period. It's about this same time that I make friends with a Yoruba sculptor through the friendship of this Peace Corps woman who was teaching in a different school. She was collecting oral history. She was in literature and she was recording him on stories and songs in Yoruba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Recording the sculptor?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.700540147564341, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Took about a week to get there. Yeah, that was an adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you got back. That must have been the long holiday, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because the weather. I remember the weather and that's the dry period and it was there was some harmattan, so that would have been January and December, January period. It's about this same time that I make friends with a Yoruba sculptor through the friendship of this Peace Corps woman who was teaching in a different school. She was collecting oral history. She was in literature and she was recording him on stories and songs in Yoruba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Recording the sculptor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The sculptor, right. Yes, because he was a storyteller as well as a sculptor. I was interested in him as a sculptor. So she introduced me to him. We became friends. Then I, I asked him if I could become his apprentice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember his name?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.11171127507149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because the weather. I remember the weather and that's the dry period and it was there was some harmattan, so that would have been January and December, January period. It's about this same time that I make friends with a Yoruba sculptor through the friendship of this Peace Corps woman who was teaching in a different school. She was collecting oral history. She was in literature and she was recording him on stories and songs in Yoruba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Recording the sculptor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The sculptor, right. Yes, because he was a storyteller as well as a sculptor. I was interested in him as a sculptor. So she introduced me to him. We became friends. Then I, I asked him if I could become his apprentice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember his name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Sanusi. Sanusi. S dot. Dot under the S. A-N-U-S-I. Sanusi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. That must be a Youbra special where you have a dot under the S."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.235234750079433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The sculptor, right. Yes, because he was a storyteller as well as a sculptor. I was interested in him as a sculptor. So she introduced me to him. We became friends. Then I, I asked him if I could become his apprentice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember his name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Sanusi. Sanusi. S dot. Dot under the S. A-N-U-S-I. Sanusi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. That must be a Youbra special where you have a dot under the S."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, to make it the 'sh' sound. Yeah. Sanusi. And Sanusi came from the Adugbologe compound, one of the two most famous carving compounds in the city of Abeokuta. Adugbologe. And that's in Imere Quarter. I-M-E-R-E Quarter. And we made our agreement, he agreed to take me on and to teach me, but it had to be in my space, not at his family's compound, because he knew that his father would not approve. His father would have felt that he was giving away trade secrets by teaching me, a white person, a foreigner, carving techniques and secrets, and that I would then become competition to their compound of carvers because that's how they survived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. And how far away was the Sanusi compound?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.372483055643814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Sanusi. Sanusi. S dot. Dot under the S. A-N-U-S-I. Sanusi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. That must be a Youbra special where you have a dot under the S."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, to make it the 'sh' sound. Yeah. Sanusi. And Sanusi came from the Adugbologe compound, one of the two most famous carving compounds in the city of Abeokuta. Adugbologe. And that's in Imere Quarter. I-M-E-R-E Quarter. And we made our agreement, he agreed to take me on and to teach me, but it had to be in my space, not at his family's compound, because he knew that his father would not approve. His father would have felt that he was giving away trade secrets by teaching me, a white person, a foreigner, carving techniques and secrets, and that I would then become competition to their compound of carvers because that's how they survived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. And how far away was the Sanusi compound?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in another part of town, so it was about three or four miles away. It was in a fairly remote area, up in the hills on the other side of the town. So it was not close to where I lived. So he would come to my flat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a bicycle or?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.52498117293757, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, to make it the 'sh' sound. Yeah. Sanusi. And Sanusi came from the Adugbologe compound, one of the two most famous carving compounds in the city of Abeokuta. Adugbologe. And that's in Imere Quarter. I-M-E-R-E Quarter. And we made our agreement, he agreed to take me on and to teach me, but it had to be in my space, not at his family's compound, because he knew that his father would not approve. His father would have felt that he was giving away trade secrets by teaching me, a white person, a foreigner, carving techniques and secrets, and that I would then become competition to their compound of carvers because that's how they survived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. And how far away was the Sanusi compound?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in another part of town, so it was about three or four miles away. It was in a fairly remote area, up in the hills on the other side of the town. So it was not close to where I lived. So he would come to my flat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a bicycle or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he would take public transportation, but mostly he would walk or three or four miles and with his tools or take his bike and come. And then we would work in one of my rooms, one of my front rooms that was empty in my flat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'd start with a block of some kind of wood."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.8055346365973, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in another part of town, so it was about three or four miles away. It was in a fairly remote area, up in the hills on the other side of the town. So it was not close to where I lived. So he would come to my flat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a bicycle or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he would take public transportation, but mostly he would walk or three or four miles and with his tools or take his bike and come. And then we would work in one of my rooms, one of my front rooms that was empty in my flat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you'd start with a block of some kind of wood."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we started from the basics. He would bring the wood and we would keep it soaked in water to keep it soft. Because he was using fresh wood. It wasn't aged or dried wood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of wood?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.525351403206544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we started from the basics. He would bring the wood and we would keep it soaked in water to keep it soft. Because he was using fresh wood. It wasn't aged or dried wood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of wood?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Omo. It was called Omo, O-M-O, wood. And I've written about this experience and it's in the catalog called African Artistry: Technique and Aesthetics in Yoruba Sculpture, that I did for an exhibition at the High Museum in Atlanta in 1980. So that's a publication, and that whole essay is about this apprenticeship."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And this was the start of my understanding the importance of bodily knowledge, sensory knowledge, because what that apprenticeship taught me was that I could never really understand Yoruba carving techniques and aesthetics choices in style and form until I embodied it myself. And that's what apprenticeship is about, imitating your master, your instructor. So he would, you know, carve a bit and then he would on his piece of wood and then give me mine, and I would try to replicate what he was doing. And it took a long time because in the beginning, you know, you use an adze. So it's a chopping motion in the wood and you're trying to chop with great accuracy and force and not knowing how to use the tool. In the beginning, I would grip it tighter and tighter, trying to make it more and more accurate. And of course, it would be less and less accurate. And I was exhausted after three or four minutes. Whereas a master Yoruba sculptor can work from dawn to dusk without stop because he knows how to use his tools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's got a lighter touch on the grip."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.361501559118382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Omo. It was called Omo, O-M-O, wood. And I've written about this experience and it's in the catalog called African Artistry: Technique and Aesthetics in Yoruba Sculpture, that I did for an exhibition at the High Museum in Atlanta in 1980. So that's a publication, and that whole essay is about this apprenticeship."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And this was the start of my understanding the importance of bodily knowledge, sensory knowledge, because what that apprenticeship taught me was that I could never really understand Yoruba carving techniques and aesthetics choices in style and form until I embodied it myself. And that's what apprenticeship is about, imitating your master, your instructor. So he would, you know, carve a bit and then he would on his piece of wood and then give me mine, and I would try to replicate what he was doing. And it took a long time because in the beginning, you know, you use an adze. So it's a chopping motion in the wood and you're trying to chop with great accuracy and force and not knowing how to use the tool. In the beginning, I would grip it tighter and tighter, trying to make it more and more accurate. And of course, it would be less and less accurate. And I was exhausted after three or four minutes. Whereas a master Yoruba sculptor can work from dawn to dusk without stop because he knows how to use his tools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's got a lighter touch on the grip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. He has the bodily knowledge and wisdom of how to use his tool for carving his form. So that's an apprenticeship started, and we would work maybe two or three times a week. And I worked with him for about seven to eight months altogether."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you were working with him, your language was Yoruba."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.290557287909314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And this was the start of my understanding the importance of bodily knowledge, sensory knowledge, because what that apprenticeship taught me was that I could never really understand Yoruba carving techniques and aesthetics choices in style and form until I embodied it myself. And that's what apprenticeship is about, imitating your master, your instructor. So he would, you know, carve a bit and then he would on his piece of wood and then give me mine, and I would try to replicate what he was doing. And it took a long time because in the beginning, you know, you use an adze. So it's a chopping motion in the wood and you're trying to chop with great accuracy and force and not knowing how to use the tool. In the beginning, I would grip it tighter and tighter, trying to make it more and more accurate. And of course, it would be less and less accurate. And I was exhausted after three or four minutes. Whereas a master Yoruba sculptor can work from dawn to dusk without stop because he knows how to use his tools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's got a lighter touch on the grip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. He has the bodily knowledge and wisdom of how to use his tool for carving his form. So that's an apprenticeship started, and we would work maybe two or three times a week. And I worked with him for about seven to eight months altogether."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you were working with him, your language was Yoruba."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was basic, rudimentary Yoruba because he spoke very little English. But you see, the apprenticeship is observe and imitate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, not so much talk."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.211730319899237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. He has the bodily knowledge and wisdom of how to use his tool for carving his form. So that's an apprenticeship started, and we would work maybe two or three times a week. And I worked with him for about seven to eight months altogether."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you were working with him, your language was Yoruba."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was basic, rudimentary Yoruba because he spoke very little English. But you see, the apprenticeship is observe and imitate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, not so much talk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's all by action. It's the gesture. It's the form. It's the rhythm, it's the pace, it's the sound. It's all of those things that I had to know and try to emulate. It wasn't verbal instruction, very little. And I would pay him a fee for the time that he came and to teach me. And in the seven or eight months that we worked, I did maybe a total of six or eight pieces and then I did some pieces of my own after the end of the apprenticeship. And I still have, I have three or four of them that I show to my students here at the university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you brought those home."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.124144799888041, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was basic, rudimentary Yoruba because he spoke very little English. But you see, the apprenticeship is observe and imitate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, not so much talk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's all by action. It's the gesture. It's the form. It's the rhythm, it's the pace, it's the sound. It's all of those things that I had to know and try to emulate. It wasn't verbal instruction, very little. And I would pay him a fee for the time that he came and to teach me. And in the seven or eight months that we worked, I did maybe a total of six or eight pieces and then I did some pieces of my own after the end of the apprenticeship. And I still have, I have three or four of them that I show to my students here at the university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you brought those home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I brought those home. A number of ones I gave us to friends, and I don't know where they are now. And two or three of them were stolen from my apartment when I lived and taught in Cleveland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I'm so sorry."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.137938666542269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's all by action. It's the gesture. It's the form. It's the rhythm, it's the pace, it's the sound. It's all of those things that I had to know and try to emulate. It wasn't verbal instruction, very little. And I would pay him a fee for the time that he came and to teach me. And in the seven or eight months that we worked, I did maybe a total of six or eight pieces and then I did some pieces of my own after the end of the apprenticeship. And I still have, I have three or four of them that I show to my students here at the university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you brought those home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I brought those home. A number of ones I gave us to friends, and I don't know where they are now. And two or three of them were stolen from my apartment when I lived and taught in Cleveland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I'm so sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm not so sorry. I mean, they found nothing else in the apartment that was worth stealing. So I feel very complimented by the fact that they thought maybe they had some authentic and therefore very, very expensive African art to sell to somebody. Yeah. So I lost two pieces, two or three pieces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of your own?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.819931851713631, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I brought those home. A number of ones I gave us to friends, and I don't know where they are now. And two or three of them were stolen from my apartment when I lived and taught in Cleveland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I'm so sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm not so sorry. I mean, they found nothing else in the apartment that was worth stealing. So I feel very complimented by the fact that they thought maybe they had some authentic and therefore very, very expensive African art to sell to somebody. Yeah. So I lost two pieces, two or three pieces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of your own?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of my own work, yeah. So that apprenticeship that changed me. It changed my life. It changed my direction because it was just at about that time that we started receiving information from Columbia University and from Teachers College. For those of us who had gone through the training program to encourage us to consider coming back to Columbia through graduate school. So this fusion of interest in Yoruba culture and Yoruba art and Yoruba history with Biobaku, were all things that then started to inform my consideration of going back to graduate school after the Peace Corps, which I did. I applied and was given a fellowship and work and stuff. And that's, but that's later. So but it was also a transformation in my relationship to Yoruba people and Yoruba community that I was living in. Because by the end of that first year, I was spending in that first year in Nigeria, I was still dependent upon, in a sense, and drawn to the other ex-patriots in the community, other British or Canadian or American volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Western culture that is your own."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.9834456127759, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. But the second year I made a transition and I got out of that expat scene, which I liked less and less, and I moved much closer physically, emotionally, psychologically to the Yoruba community that I was living in. And learning from, my students, this master sculptor, my other Yoruba colleagues and other Yoruba friends. And that was a very important shift for me. And I saw how some of my colleagues did it and many did not. Many of them stayed in the safe space of expatriate community. But it was the second year of my stay that was really the transformative one and the one that I value the most because that's the one that's given me grounding and direction and commitment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It's pointed the direction of the rest of your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were there, I'm remembering your first two weeks in homesickness and I'm remembering the closeness of your family. How were you able to stay in touch with your family to let them know how you were, what you were doing, what you were engaging in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By aerogram letters. The, you know, the thin paper blue paper ones that you then folded up and put glue on to seal and send on its way. Because I was doing that and along with my photographs, with slides that I was making, although"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You sent them the slides?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.759384014195444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were there, I'm remembering your first two weeks in homesickness and I'm remembering the closeness of your family. How were you able to stay in touch with your family to let them know how you were, what you were doing, what you were engaging in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By aerogram letters. The, you know, the thin paper blue paper ones that you then folded up and put glue on to seal and send on its way. Because I was doing that and along with my photographs, with slides that I was making, although"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You sent them the slides?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I also sent. To Kodak. I would send the film to Kodak for the processing, and then they would send the processed slides to my parents. So they were kind of being sent overseas in their packages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do audio cassette tape, voice recordings?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.621537793550493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By aerogram letters. The, you know, the thin paper blue paper ones that you then folded up and put glue on to seal and send on its way. Because I was doing that and along with my photographs, with slides that I was making, although"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You sent them the slides?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I also sent. To Kodak. I would send the film to Kodak for the processing, and then they would send the processed slides to my parents. So they were kind of being sent overseas in their packages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do audio cassette tape, voice recordings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. Well, yes, I think I might have done one or two, but not very many. It was mostly the letters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the letter would take more than two days to get there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.468375326167214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I also sent. To Kodak. I would send the film to Kodak for the processing, and then they would send the processed slides to my parents. So they were kind of being sent overseas in their packages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do audio cassette tape, voice recordings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. Well, yes, I think I might have done one or two, but not very many. It was mostly the letters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the letter would take more than two days to get there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it would take about take about two weeks to get and two weeks to come back from stage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To get their reply, right?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.409305917963572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. Well, yes, I think I might have done one or two, but not very many. It was mostly the letters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the letter would take more than two days to get there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it would take about take about two weeks to get and two weeks to come back from stage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To get their reply, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So no iPhone."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.454784353292856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it would take about take about two weeks to get and two weeks to come back from stage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To get their reply, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So no iPhone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. It was long distance and slow communication. And that was OK. That was fine. Once I found my footing and started to position myself where I was physically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you still have those letters? Did your parents save them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.616427059214285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So no iPhone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. It was long distance and slow communication. And that was OK. That was fine. Once I found my footing and started to position myself where I was physically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you still have those letters? Did your parents save them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did, and I have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have them."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.79603006579365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. It was long distance and slow communication. And that was OK. That was fine. Once I found my footing and started to position myself where I was physically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you still have those letters? Did your parents save them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did, and I have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have them somewhere in the HJD archive, in my garage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. We'll talk about what you might do with those letters after the interview."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.106700073104054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did, and I have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have them somewhere in the HJD archive, in my garage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. We'll talk about what you might do with those letters after the interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So and your health throughout these two years, how were you holding up?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.563000081226727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have them somewhere in the HJD archive, in my garage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. We'll talk about what you might do with those letters after the interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So and your health throughout these two years, how were you holding up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My health was good, I was good. I never had any malaria during the time. I don't remember any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take Aralen?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.18111120136303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So and your health throughout these two years, how were you holding up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My health was good, I was good. I never had any malaria during the time. I don't remember any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take Aralen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once a week?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.979012445958922, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My health was good, I was good. I never had any malaria during the time. I don't remember any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take Aralen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once a week?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, yeah, I think I did. I think I was pretty conscientious about that. But I was living in a, you know, I was up on the second floor. So I was above the ground and I had a mosquito net over my bed and I had good accommodations, very comfortable. So it was only when I was doing travels that I, you know, might have been subject to malaria, but never experienced it and never had any serious health problems. My health has always been good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Did Peace Corps ever come to visit, Peace Corps staff, come to visit you on site in Abeokuta?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.865569384398803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once a week?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, yeah, I think I did. I think I was pretty conscientious about that. But I was living in a, you know, I was up on the second floor. So I was above the ground and I had a mosquito net over my bed and I had good accommodations, very comfortable. So it was only when I was doing travels that I, you know, might have been subject to malaria, but never experienced it and never had any serious health problems. My health has always been good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Did Peace Corps ever come to visit, Peace Corps staff, come to visit you on site in Abeokuta?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think once or twice in the two-year period, not often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gamma globulin shots and so forth."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.850632649332002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, yeah, I think I did. I think I was pretty conscientious about that. But I was living in a, you know, I was up on the second floor. So I was above the ground and I had a mosquito net over my bed and I had good accommodations, very comfortable. So it was only when I was doing travels that I, you know, might have been subject to malaria, but never experienced it and never had any serious health problems. My health has always been good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Did Peace Corps ever come to visit, Peace Corps staff, come to visit you on site in Abeokuta?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think once or twice in the two-year period, not often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gamma globulin shots and so forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I think so. Maybe, but that was an Ibadan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you went into Ibadan?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.94514738814667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think once or twice in the two-year period, not often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gamma globulin shots and so forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I think so. Maybe, but that was an Ibadan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you went into Ibadan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I had to go into Ibadan for that kind of thing. And it was in Ibadan that I also ate. I became close friends with a very famous Yoruba sculptor, Fakeye."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah yes, I was going to ask if you had met him. Lamidi."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.827941542385187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I think so. Maybe, but that was an Ibadan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you went into Ibadan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I had to go into Ibadan for that kind of thing. And it was in Ibadan that I also ate. I became close friends with a very famous Yoruba sculptor, Fakeye."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah yes, I was going to ask if you had met him. Lamidi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lamidi. Yeah, because he had become friends with a number of the Americans in USIS, and they organized exhibitions of his work. And that's how his career really blossomed. And he took on apprentices. And one of those apprentices many years later, in 1970, when I was back doing my PhD research, was one of his apprentices was my co-carver when I was back at the University of Ife and we used to carve together. He had studied with Fakeye. Fakeye had always wanted me to come and apprentice under him when he found out that I was doing it in Abeokuta, he said you should come in and work with me. But Ibadan was too far away and it was, I didn't have any housing there. It wasn't convenient. And so it never happened. But we became close friends. And yeah, we'd go to his exhibitions and loved his work. And I've brought him here to Wisconsin to two times when he was coming to the States, he's now passed away. And we have one of his wonderful works in the permanent collection here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I've seen it. It's gorgeous."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.91993504709465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I had to go into Ibadan for that kind of thing. And it was in Ibadan that I also ate. I became close friends with a very famous Yoruba sculptor, Fakeye."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah yes, I was going to ask if you had met him. Lamidi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lamidi. Yeah, because he had become friends with a number of the Americans in USIS, and they organized exhibitions of his work. And that's how his career really blossomed. And he took on apprentices. And one of those apprentices many years later, in 1970, when I was back doing my PhD research, was one of his apprentices was my co-carver when I was back at the University of Ife and we used to carve together. He had studied with Fakeye. Fakeye had always wanted me to come and apprentice under him when he found out that I was doing it in Abeokuta, he said you should come in and work with me. But Ibadan was too far away and it was, I didn't have any housing there. It wasn't convenient. And so it never happened. But we became close friends. And yeah, we'd go to his exhibitions and loved his work. And I've brought him here to Wisconsin to two times when he was coming to the States, he's now passed away. And we have one of his wonderful works in the permanent collection here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I've seen it. It's gorgeous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's a beautiful piece."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He had a brother, Hakim, whose work is similar."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.24437227454961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lamidi. Yeah, because he had become friends with a number of the Americans in USIS, and they organized exhibitions of his work. And that's how his career really blossomed. And he took on apprentices. And one of those apprentices many years later, in 1970, when I was back doing my PhD research, was one of his apprentices was my co-carver when I was back at the University of Ife and we used to carve together. He had studied with Fakeye. Fakeye had always wanted me to come and apprentice under him when he found out that I was doing it in Abeokuta, he said you should come in and work with me. But Ibadan was too far away and it was, I didn't have any housing there. It wasn't convenient. And so it never happened. But we became close friends. And yeah, we'd go to his exhibitions and loved his work. And I've brought him here to Wisconsin to two times when he was coming to the States, he's now passed away. And we have one of his wonderful works in the permanent collection here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I've seen it. It's gorgeous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's a beautiful piece."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He had a brother, Hakim, whose work is similar."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very similar. Yeah, very similar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But Hakim didn't get the fame of his brother Lamidi."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 23.6048580828329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's a beautiful piece."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He had a brother, Hakim, whose work is similar."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very similar. Yeah, very similar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But Hakim didn't get the fame of his brother Lamidi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah, Lamidi, he was the master. Lots of imitators. But he was the master. And then it was in those years in the seventies when he got a position at the University of Ife as their resident artist, and he was teaching the wood sculpture section in the art department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was when you went back after Peace Corps."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.672064536481003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very similar. Yeah, very similar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But Hakim didn't get the fame of his brother Lamidi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah, Lamidi, he was the master. Lots of imitators. But he was the master. And then it was in those years in the seventies when he got a position at the University of Ife as their resident artist, and he was teaching the wood sculpture section in the art department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was when you went back after Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, this was after Peace Corps, right. Because I, you know, I was there in Nigeria until August of '66, then started graduate school soon after. And, you know, in September of '66, and it was in June of, May, June of '70 when I finished all my coursework and was ABD that I went back to Nigeria to do my field research for the PhD. And it was that time that I was at Ife, affiliated with Ife. So let's see. So, that's for the two years in Nigeria. When I was leaving to come back to the States, I decided that was my one opportunity to do my roots journey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On your way home?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 22.968960596090003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah, Lamidi, he was the master. Lots of imitators. But he was the master. And then it was in those years in the seventies when he got a position at the University of Ife as their resident artist, and he was teaching the wood sculpture section in the art department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was when you went back after Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, this was after Peace Corps, right. Because I, you know, I was there in Nigeria until August of '66, then started graduate school soon after. And, you know, in September of '66, and it was in June of, May, June of '70 when I finished all my coursework and was ABD that I went back to Nigeria to do my field research for the PhD. And it was that time that I was at Ife, affiliated with Ife. So let's see. So, that's for the two years in Nigeria. When I was leaving to come back to the States, I decided that was my one opportunity to do my roots journey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On your way home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On my way home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so let's hear it. Where did you go?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.702420489000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On my way home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so let's hear it. Where did you go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this was during the heat of the Cold War and therefore to go to Russia, because I wanted to go to Russia. I wanted to go to the USSR. You had to go through Intourist, which was the official government. And Americans were not free to travel anywhere in the USSR, but I was able to get a visa to go to Moscow thinking that maybe I could get down to the Ukraine where my grandfather had come from or Belarus. But in fact, it never happened. But I got my visa, so my first trip. From Nigeria, I flew to Egypt and I spent about a week in Egypt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Lagos?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Cairo. Cairo. And I spent a week in Egypt and I went up the Nile to Luxor and explored some of those incredible sights. Got a sense, a little bit of a sense of Egypt. And then from Cairo, I flew to I think it was Lebanon and it was a one-day stopover. So I don't remember much about Beirut. And then from there I flew to Moscow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to procure your visa for Russia in Nigeria, in Lagos, somehow at the embassies?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.780467210000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this was during the heat of the Cold War and therefore to go to Russia, because I wanted to go to Russia. I wanted to go to the USSR. You had to go through Intourist, which was the official government. And Americans were not free to travel anywhere in the USSR, but I was able to get a visa to go to Moscow thinking that maybe I could get down to the Ukraine where my grandfather had come from or Belarus. But in fact, it never happened. But I got my visa, so my first trip. From Nigeria, I flew to Egypt and I spent about a week in Egypt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Lagos?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Cairo. Cairo. And I spent a week in Egypt and I went up the Nile to Luxor and explored some of those incredible sights. Got a sense, a little bit of a sense of Egypt. And then from Cairo, I flew to I think it was Lebanon and it was a one-day stopover. So I don't remember much about Beirut. And then from there I flew to Moscow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to procure your visa for Russia in Nigeria, in Lagos, somehow at the embassies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the Russian Embassy in Lagos, yeah. That's how I got that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have taken some time."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 11.9782969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Cairo. Cairo. And I spent a week in Egypt and I went up the Nile to Luxor and explored some of those incredible sights. Got a sense, a little bit of a sense of Egypt. And then from Cairo, I flew to I think it was Lebanon and it was a one-day stopover. So I don't remember much about Beirut. And then from there I flew to Moscow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to procure your visa for Russia in Nigeria, in Lagos, somehow at the embassies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the Russian Embassy in Lagos, yeah. That's how I got that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have taken some time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit of time. Yeah, yeah. And it was very restrictive. And during that time when I landed in Moscow, you couldn't spend any money. You had to pay for these meal tickets. And you had to eat in the restaurants that were set aside for foreigners, tourists, visitors. So I was there in these places, these government run cafeterias for foreigners, and that's not what I had come for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, that's not what you wanted."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.531441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the Russian Embassy in Lagos, yeah. That's how I got that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have taken some time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit of time. Yeah, yeah. And it was very restrictive. And during that time when I landed in Moscow, you couldn't spend any money. You had to pay for these meal tickets. And you had to eat in the restaurants that were set aside for foreigners, tourists, visitors. So I was there in these places, these government run cafeterias for foreigners, and that's not what I had come for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, that's not what you wanted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was at Hamilton, I studied Russian for two years. I didn't remember much of it, but it helped me start to have conversations and I found my way to some, to some Russian folks. But it was only in the last two or three days of my 10 day stay that I was able to converse. You know, enough of my Russian had come back. But then it was too late and I couldn't leave Moscow and there was no way to get to the Ukraine. So that was my roots journey. And then from Moscow, I flew to Berlin. What would have been, yeah, West Berlin. Met Peter Crone again and spent some time with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is your third time now with Peter."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5904900000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit of time. Yeah, yeah. And it was very restrictive. And during that time when I landed in Moscow, you couldn't spend any money. You had to pay for these meal tickets. And you had to eat in the restaurants that were set aside for foreigners, tourists, visitors. So I was there in these places, these government run cafeterias for foreigners, and that's not what I had come for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, that's not what you wanted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was at Hamilton, I studied Russian for two years. I didn't remember much of it, but it helped me start to have conversations and I found my way to some, to some Russian folks. But it was only in the last two or three days of my 10 day stay that I was able to converse. You know, enough of my Russian had come back. But then it was too late and I couldn't leave Moscow and there was no way to get to the Ukraine. So that was my roots journey. And then from Moscow, I flew to Berlin. What would have been, yeah, West Berlin. Met Peter Crone again and spent some time with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is your third time now with Peter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he yeah, third time, since he lived with us in Hempstead. And then when I went to see him in '61 and then '66. And I've seen him since then too. And then from West Berlin, I flew back to New York and met my family, met me at JFK. And in the exchange of greetings as I got off the plane, all they could do was laugh because I was speaking Nigerian English and I couldn't hear it. They said, is that you, Henry? And all they could do was laugh, and I didn't know what they were laughing at. So that was the return. The return experience, because my speech patterns had changed completely in order to make myself understandable to my students in Nigeria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you speak special English."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he yeah, third time, since he lived with us in Hempstead. And then when I went to see him in '61 and then '66. And I've seen him since then too. And then from West Berlin, I flew back to New York and met my family, met me at JFK. And in the exchange of greetings as I got off the plane, all they could do was laugh because I was speaking Nigerian English and I couldn't hear it. They said, is that you, Henry? And all they could do was laugh, and I didn't know what they were laughing at. So that was the return. The return experience, because my speech patterns had changed completely in order to make myself understandable to my students in Nigeria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you speak special English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And if I meet a Yoruba person, I fall back into it immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the other thing that they also marveled at was my sitting there at the first meal that we shared, putting piles of salt and pepper on my food because it was tasteless to me after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, after all the."}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And if I meet a Yoruba person, I fall back into it immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the other thing that they also marveled at was my sitting there at the first meal that we shared, putting piles of salt and pepper on my food because it was tasteless to me after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, after all the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The pepper of two years of Nigerian cuisine. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Transitions happen in both directions"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the other thing that they also marveled at was my sitting there at the first meal that we shared, putting piles of salt and pepper on my food because it was tasteless to me after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, after all the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The pepper of two years of Nigerian cuisine. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Transitions happen in both directions"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both directions, yeah, and in fact, coming home, I think it's tougher than going away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. You look at, you begin to get a view of your own country. Did that change for you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00020:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The pepper of two years of Nigerian cuisine. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Transitions happen in both directions"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both directions, yeah, and in fact, coming home, I think it's tougher than going away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. You look at, you begin to get a view of your own country. Did that change for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, very much, very much. I strongly advocate that every American should have an experience outside, a serious cross-cultural experience, in order to understand their own country in the world system because we get a very different view. As I like to say, we think we have a free press. We don't, we have a bought press, we have a paid-for press, and we only hear what those payers want us to hear and see. So that was a real eye-opener, and every American should have that experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else that you'd like to put on record about your two years in the Peace Corps?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00465:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 72.51246448729282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They come in, and they’re working hard day to day, but they may be in an office environment or somewhere else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you come in as an intern or co-op those things are always on your schedule, so you get to go see them. That’s a shame that the students see them but not everyone does."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not everybody gets to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned JSC 2.016. Then there was another iteration, 2.017. Can you talk about those iterations? You talked about the new mission statement. Can you elaborate on that a bit more?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After the first year and a half or so of JSC 2.0, I wanted to think about how do I maintain momentum in really trying to continuously get people to consider how can we do things differently here. I would generally have a retreat with the senior staff near the beginning of the calendar year, and we would try to set out a few goals, maybe around four or so, again that the senior staff would really focus on. I just mentioned what we called SAFE, which was the Strategic Acquisition Forecasting One, the one that talked about contracts.\\n\\n Every year we were setting out these goals at the beginning of the year. I guess it wasn’t until last year that we had the idea, I think maybe it was the External Relations Office, of branding it with the year. So instead of here’s this year’s 2.0 larger goals, we’ll call it 2.016—and this year we followed that with 2.017—and brand it a little bit more around it and be able to give a little bit more focus on it so people around the Center could know what it was that we were focused on as a senior staff and how we were working that, and hopefully a lot of people would be involved in that as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought it was kind of ingenious when I heard it. It definitely stuck in my mind."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00465:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.8793349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We definitely, from the Center Director Office, support every launch over there. Either I will go or Mark Geyer or Melanie [W. Saunders] as the Associate Director goes to every launch. Typically, I’ve been going once a year and then the other three are covered by Mark or Melanie. Of course it’s really Kazakhstan, not so much Russia. We stop in Russia in order to get on the charter flight that’s arranged for us there to go to Kazakhstan, but we actually spend most of the time in Kazakhstan at the launch.\\n\\n I think that’s incredibly important. It’s our people that are launching there, and of course we, [JSC], play the key role in coordinating all of the International Space Station activities. I think having that presence is important for the crew to know that we are paying attention and that this is a huge deal, and then just for the Program in general."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any traditions that you participate in when you go over there? I’m sure that there’s quite a few."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are present at the state commission that happens generally the day before launch. There’s usually some toasting that goes on after the commission, which is an important part of any Russian endeavor. Of course we participate in that. Then we’re out at the launch [viewing] site for the actual launch participating in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you out there for the launch of [Scott J.] Kelly or Peggy [A. Whitson] on the recent flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at Scott Kelly’s first Expedition launch but not the one that launched the beginning of the one-year mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beginning of the one-year mission, yes. For Peggy were you there?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00465:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 33.199261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are present at the state commission that happens generally the day before launch. There’s usually some toasting that goes on after the commission, which is an important part of any Russian endeavor. Of course we participate in that. Then we’re out at the launch [viewing] site for the actual launch participating in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you out there for the launch of [Scott J.] Kelly or Peggy [A. Whitson] on the recent flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at Scott Kelly’s first Expedition launch but not the one that launched the beginning of the one-year mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beginning of the one-year mission, yes. For Peggy were you there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t there for Peggy’s, no. I forget who went to that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about some of your relationships with our international partners?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00465:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.900000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a number of different conversations about it but again really tried to put it in context. The decision was actually made when Mike [Michael L.] Coats was Center Director. He was really the one that was interfacing with them initially. I would say I just continued to get some questions after I became the Center Director and really tried to talk about the process that the Agency was going through at that time. I will say the arc jet decision was made a little bit ahead of the whole Technical Capability Assessment Team, but it was leading into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you getting any flak about tearing down the LRL [Lunar Receiving Lab, Building 37] given its historic qualities? I know that the building is in bad shape. My understanding is the foundation is splitting in two."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whenever we do anything where there was something historic that happened there we do work with the State Historic Preservation Office. Usually you try to collect a bunch of information, whether it’s blueprints, photographs, and put together information before you do something like that.\\n\\n But we’ve got to move on. Believe me, if you saw the difference between the old and the new, you’d realize how excited people are. They’re moving in as we speak. Really really excited to be able to operate in the new building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, no doubt."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really supports what we’ve been trying to do under JSC 2.0 about collaborating more across divisions and organizations and not being as stovepiped with the way the labs are set up there. Here we have labs in seven different buildings. If you work in the one lab you may never see anybody that works in another lab. We have more of an open lab concept over there, and people who use certain kinds of equipment can actually share them instead of labs having separate ones, which just adds to the cost. You get more of that dialogue between the different scientists and researchers as well, which we think will really enhance our ability to produce good science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and it’s a beautiful building, it really is nice."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00465:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 21, "return_to_go": 21.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whenever we do anything where there was something historic that happened there we do work with the State Historic Preservation Office. Usually you try to collect a bunch of information, whether it’s blueprints, photographs, and put together information before you do something like that.\\n\\n But we’ve got to move on. Believe me, if you saw the difference between the old and the new, you’d realize how excited people are. They’re moving in as we speak. Really really excited to be able to operate in the new building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, no doubt."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really supports what we’ve been trying to do under JSC 2.0 about collaborating more across divisions and organizations and not being as stovepiped with the way the labs are set up there. Here we have labs in seven different buildings. If you work in the one lab you may never see anybody that works in another lab. We have more of an open lab concept over there, and people who use certain kinds of equipment can actually share them instead of labs having separate ones, which just adds to the cost. You get more of that dialogue between the different scientists and researchers as well, which we think will really enhance our ability to produce good science."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and it’s a beautiful building, it really is nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Last time we talked about partnerships. I wonder if you would talk about some of the more successful partnerships that have come about as a result of [JSC] 2.0 and why you think they’ve been so successful or why you’re so proud of those."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00189:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 34.95680013985499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, so we had eight days, had seven scheduled and an extra one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your thoughts when you heard mission control said—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Wow!” We cheered. “Great!” Because we really had a busy time with just two people. This was an engineering test flight, and we had a flight plan full of stuff, and people fighting over, sticking in their stuff. So there was always something that you were watching the clock on. You had to do this coming up. We did have sleep periods, which we would use for window gazing, some part of it, because you don’t need as much sleep as they were scheduling. But when they said, “Wave off,” I remembered getting in the recycle book, going through the pages, shutting down some of the computers, opening the doors again, and I got all the way down, all of the sudden, I turned the page, and there was nothing on it, and there was this realization, hey, this is free time, and it was terrific.\\n\\n We got out of the suits, and then we got something to eat and watched the world, and I wouldn’t have had it any other way, if it had been my choice. In fact, we flew right over White Sands, where our landing site was. Just happened to be in the reentry attitude and we stayed in it. So we went half way around the world. The nose was pointing straight down, and as I looked up, I could see this monster dust storm going on there. It looked like it was all headed for Texas, the dust in the valley there. It was a clearly good decision. It looked really bad down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, while you guys were having a, as you mentioned, free day, they were very busy down at White Sands preparing for your arrival."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, they were ready for us because we knew we were going there. This [Edwards AFB] was underwater out here. That’s why they gave up on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about the landing? Was there anything different or any test procedures that you were working on with the landing that came in for STS-3? Anything different that you—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00189:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.76404005988606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, that’s what you’re paid for, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And getting the crew home on time. At least when you were going to do the landing, you were landing at some place where you felt was home. You were coming back to Edwards."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was definitely—and I was real familiar with White Sands, too, because we did most of our STA training there. So it wasn’t like a strange place at all. But we did more dives at the ground there than here or anywhere else.\\n\\n How are we doing on time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me just stop this for a second. [Tape recorder turned off.]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—yes, I think pretty well I’ve talked about the great feeling when we got down, and we’d endured our engine loss and takeoff and wrapped it all up, came back here with a great feeling of accomplishment. We knew we’d also face challenges with getting the instrument-pointing system operating. It didn’t work worth a hoot to start. So the whole crew had a hand in recovering from what could have been a real bust, to a great flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The times before when you had been in the Orbiter landing, there had been a couple of issues that attributed to some needed-to-be adjustments to the software. When you landed, did you feel like everything was in place to have a smooth landing when you brought that Orbiter home?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00189:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 40.848933399873395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was definitely—and I was real familiar with White Sands, too, because we did most of our STA training there. So it wasn’t like a strange place at all. But we did more dives at the ground there than here or anywhere else.\\n\\n How are we doing on time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me just stop this for a second. [Tape recorder turned off.]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—yes, I think pretty well I’ve talked about the great feeling when we got down, and we’d endured our engine loss and takeoff and wrapped it all up, came back here with a great feeling of accomplishment. We knew we’d also face challenges with getting the instrument-pointing system operating. It didn’t work worth a hoot to start. So the whole crew had a hand in recovering from what could have been a real bust, to a great flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The times before when you had been in the Orbiter landing, there had been a couple of issues that attributed to some needed-to-be adjustments to the software. When you landed, did you feel like everything was in place to have a smooth landing when you brought that Orbiter home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I thought the Orbiter handled great, and it had some refinements since the Approach and Landing Tests. And so I made a landing I was proud of, very smooth and a nice touch-down, and right where I wanted it. We worried about the center of gravity [CG] was further forward than it had ever been because all of our gear was still in the payload bay. So we were heavy, forward CG, but we got the nose down smoothly and rolled to a stop out here. So I had no suggestions for flight control improvements."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Maybe somebody was surprised to hear that. [Laughs]\\n\\n After you landed, was there a difference of your adjustment back to Earth than it was for your first mission, or did you feel like your body and your physical being had adjusted well each time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00189:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.417530999999997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To drop bombs on them? Well, they were, too, and on that line, Sergi Borisev was the man to pull off. He was the pilot for all the tests, flew all the flights. He flew with me when I flew.\\n\\n We invited him over here, and I gave him a ride in an F-18, and he was here for a week, which he was just jazzed about, naturally, and he’s a former fighter pilot. It turned out we were flying the SR-71 that day, and so I was able, when it was coming smoking back, he was out there by the Colorado River at Mach 2, coming back for a landing. We got him on radar and intercepted and pulled up alongside, let him fly it, you know, SR-71, as mysterious an airplane to the Russians. As a matter of fact, Borisev had been flying MiG-23s up near the Baltic [Sea], an interceptor aircraft, making passes at SRs flying by, trying to intercept it, which he didn’t succeed much because it was smoking at Mach 3 when it went by. And here he is now in an American airplane, we’re pulling up on the wing of it. So that’s kind of cool, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Surreal for him, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, both sides, and we talked about it that way. He’s a good guy, you know. It’s not surprising they’ve got all the same interests we do. We’re on opposite sides by a fluke, not by any basic inherent difference, just personally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just people and pilots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also worked on the development of the propulsion-controlled aircraft systems. Would you like to talk with us about—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00189:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 17.130589999999998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, both sides, and we talked about it that way. He’s a good guy, you know. It’s not surprising they’ve got all the same interests we do. We’re on opposite sides by a fluke, not by any basic inherent difference, just personally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just people and pilots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also worked on the development of the propulsion-controlled aircraft systems. Would you like to talk with us about—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was unique and different, not been done before. Bill Burcham is the guy that came up with pursuing this concept, of being able to fly an airplane that’s lost all its hydraulics and, therefore, its ability to move its flight controls, and by just nudging the thrust carefully, get the airplane back on the ground, which is what the crew of United 232 did in Sioux City [Iowa] with some success, although a lot of people were killed.\\n\\n We took it beyond that, making an autopilot basically, that uses the engines as control effectors, rather than the normal controls, and had tremendous success, really, with an F-15 and a MD-11, all the way to touch-down in both cases, without having moved the controls. Locked up the controls, not that I couldn’t have taken over, should it be necessary. But without cheating, got the airplanes on the ground. A great example of why working here is so much fun. You get to do something new and different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, another thing that you did that was new and different was you launched a satellite into orbit with Pegasus [launch vehicle]. Tell us about that experience."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00189:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know if I’d—it’d be hard for me to write it, again, because that’s protracted over all that time and came out so good, and the war stories that go along with it, hard to beat that one. But I wouldn’t do the whole career any different. I’ve really been lucky to come here and at my advanced stage still fly in F-18s and other airplanes. It’s just like I’ve always dreamed of, and I’m still getting paid for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let’s end it on that one. I have heard several times in our conversations today, as well as read, that the thing you love to do most is fly planes. Do you have a favorite of all the ones that you fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m often asked that. I’ve had favorites as they go along that have been impressive. If I had to go back and pick one, it’s hard. It’s hard to beat the F-18 for pure kick to fly, pilot-friendly airplane. But flying the bigger airplanes is more of a challenge, really. Fighters are easy to fly. Big ones are really different from one to the next, and flying them with engine failures and that sort of thing are a bigger challenges. So there’s some maybe more higher level of satisfaction of mastering such a beast, like a B-52. And so my favorite one is the one I happen to be in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The perfect answer.\\n\\n Is there anything else you’d like to add today before we close?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think not. With every incident I’ve described, in the back of my mind, there are six others I could talk about. I’d hate to be the person that has to listen to all this, or much less type it up, but I’m happy to share what I have and hope it’s of some use to somebody sometime somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It will be, and it was extremely interesting hearing all the things that we had time for you to share. So I thank you again for your time today."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00665:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 63.6543764178496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think counting Jim [James C.] Fletcher twice. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. How does your leadership style differ from the ones that have come before you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know that I can answer that one, Rebecca. You might need to ask other people that. I can’t self-assess. I don’t know how to give you a fair assessment of what I do or how I do it. I have my own innate characteristics, but I think you’d have to get others to compare and contrast me with prior Administrators."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember hearing that one of your most recommended books is one that was about Jim [James E.] Webb and his leadership style."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was nineteen when Webb left the agency in ’68, but even as a teenager I paid a lot of attention to Webb’s management style and tactics, and more so later on. I certainly am an admirer of Jim Webb’s. He did an awful lot of things right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to share some of those and how you’ve possibly put some of those in action here?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00665:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 71.17824249117234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was nineteen when Webb left the agency in ’68, but even as a teenager I paid a lot of attention to Webb’s management style and tactics, and more so later on. I certainly am an admirer of Jim Webb’s. He did an awful lot of things right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to share some of those and how you’ve possibly put some of those in action here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Webb was a guy who very clearly, in the light of history—and Steve Dick can comment on this. But Webb was a guy who listened to an awful lot of different people, many of whom did not agree among themselves, but that was okay, and nor did they necessarily agree with Webb. Very clearly, he didn’t mind that. He was comfortable with argument and a certain amount of dissent, knowing that he had to make the final decision, because that was his job, but he seems, in light of history, to have been somebody who was comfortable hearing from a very wide range of people, whether they agreed with him or not, before making a decision, and that’s a characteristic I try to employ.\\n\\n Webb was someone who understood, and very explicitly understood in his makeup of the Administrator’s Office, that he himself did not bring all the necessary skills to the Administrator’s Office to do the job. The job is a very big job. It is technical. It is scientific. It is political. It is managerial. Webb brought several of those talents and brought them in abundance, but he didn’t bring them all.\\n\\n So he augmented himself with Hugh [L.] Dryden as his Deputy, a very esteemed aeronautical scientist from the early days of aircraft flight, and Bob [Robert C.] Seamans [Jr.] as his Associate Administrator. I’ve characterized that position at NASA as being like the Chief Operating Officer, which I think is accurate, and Bob was and remains a good manager."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So would you say you’ve modeled your top management after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve modeled the construct after that, because I believe that it works. Now, I bring a different set of specialties than Webb himself brought"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He came from OMB [Office of Management and Budget]."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00665:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 32.82758364349074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We could have been on Mars by now easily, and the paper demonstrates that as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was born the same year you were, and they were saying that humans would be on Mars in 1984."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and they could have been. And they could have been. See, what needs to be understood is that we spent $25 billion building and flying Apollo, and of that 21 [billion] was in building it, and 4 billion was in flying it. So we spent 80 percent of the money of the Apollo era building a capability, which we used to go to the Moon half a dozen times and then threw it away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So why was that bad decision made?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that I don’t know. You, Steve, are the historian. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted your opinion."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00665:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 35.58960943640832, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that I don’t know. You, Steve, are the historian. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted your opinion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t get inside the mind of President Nixon and other policy makers at the time. I simply know that it is irrefutably true that even for the lower budgets of the time, because of the severe inflation that we encountered in the seventies, the Vietnam War, despite all of those things, in constant dollars we had enough money to conduct a very robust space program, had we chosen not to build the Shuttle. But the Shuttle was the logical outcome of a decision that was first made, which was we would cancel Apollo, and then the question was, well, then what, right?\\n\\n So we as a nation allowed a very poor set of policy choices to be made. I think you’d have to cast a wide net through history to find such an unproductive ratio of expenditures in developing any new capability. In developing any new capability, a given society must undergo the design, the development, the construction, and then transition into operations, and to spend 80 percent of the money that was spent on the effort in design, development, and construction, spend 20 percent of the money using it, and then throwing it away, I think you’d have to look hard to find a society making such a choice, and I think it was a poor choice.\\n\\n Now, I was saying so at the time, but I was, you know, in my young twenties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nobody listened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course not. Of course not, and probably they shouldn’t have. There were many others also saying that this is a poor choice, and they weren’t listened to, either. As I’ve gotten older, received wisdom has tended to come more toward my position, but my position hasn’t changed. The public perception has changed, that looking back on it, people say, “That wasn’t the best choice.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds as if you think that knowledge of history and NASA history in particular can be useful for current policy."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00665:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 40.221931773217975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’ve read all the books on space, I think, that have been published, but more importantly, I’ve read more widely in history. I often use these historical references in my speeches. People think that what we do today is unique. We talk about putting crew on [International Space] Station for six months at a time as arduous duty, and we talk about developing a lunar base with a six-month crew rotation or sending people on voyages to Mars that will last three years.\\n\\n Unless I point it out in a speech, who today understands that on Captain [James] Cook’s first voyage, wherein he discovered Australia, he and his people were gone for three years, with no communication home. By the time his crew complement was complete, he had 102 people on board and only lost 38 of them on that voyage, only lost 38 crew, and upon his return home was praised for his great economy in husbanding the lives of his crew. And we talk about a three-year voyage to Mars and making 99 percent certain that no one will die, I mean, who are we kidding? We’ve lost sight of history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This gets into the whole area of risk in exploration, which maybe we can discuss at the end if we have time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s another issue. I’m sorry; I’m too long-winded for your questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. No, this is exactly what we’re looking for. But you talked about history, and let me ask you, though, a little about the future. You mentioned that you get a great deal of external advice on how to make decisions. We know that the Vision for Exploration gives you an agenda of what needs to be done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A template, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you get external advice from other folks. How do you determine what the priorities are going to be for NASA, and what factors do you think over the next few years will change those priorities?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00665:64", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 40.36863489961148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fortunately, wiser heads have prevailed. The fundamental purpose of NASA as a space agency is to explore the universe that we can reach with humans and robots. That’s the fundamental purpose, and it’s an and, not an or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think you could argue, the premier agency for exploration of the world, couldn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that as well, but the world is part of the universe. We look down, we look up, and we travel outward. And all those things are important, and it is to me very narrow thinking, narrow thinking in the extreme, for any constituency to say, “Well, my part is worth doing, but these other parts are not worth doing.” I could not more profoundly disapprove of that view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You won’t get any argument from me.\n\nNASA’s foundation was built on NACA [National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics], and NACA was so much a part of studies that affected aeronautical research. What is that role now for NASA, and what do you see for it in the future?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t see nearly as big a role as I wish I saw. There is still much to be learned about flight within the atmosphere, flight within atmospheres. We’re not going to do space exploration at any planet with an atmosphere, even a residual one like Mars, without a heavy investment in aeronautical research that has not yet been done. Right now we’re limited to the Viking entry envelope in terms of our thinking about aero entry at Mars. That’s silly. We should be well beyond that by now.\\n\\n There is an enormous amount to be learned about flight within our own atmosphere, to doing it more economically, safer, more efficiently, more quietly, and in a way that provides better service to more people. We’re not spending as a nation as much on aeronautics as I believe should be spent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you see that role changing at all for NASA in the future?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00665:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 42.00371117148525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and now it’s about 1 percent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About six-tenths of a percent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So your point would be what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is your thought on that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00665:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.622341210000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, do you follow that argument?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish more people did. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or took it to heart."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On that same train of thought, we all know that NASA celebrates its fiftieth anniversary next year. Share with us what you believe to be NASA’s impact on society in the past and now and even in the future."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00665:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.3581569, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish more people did. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or took it to heart."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On that same train of thought, we all know that NASA celebrates its fiftieth anniversary next year. Share with us what you believe to be NASA’s impact on society in the past and now and even in the future."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA’s impact on society, American society especially, is to do things and bring home things that are larger than life. NASA makes us look toward our future. People want to have a future. They want to have a frontier. They want to see and learn and imagine new things.\\n\\n People want to feed their kids and have a roof over their heads and dress warmly against the cold and not be hungry and not worry about where their next car payment is coming from, and they want to have some leisure time. Yes, people want all those things. But they also want to look beyond that when they can, and NASA is the entity above all others in this country that brings that to them.\\n\\n It’s not for nothing that 40 years after we did it, television commercials are still showing Apollo Moon rockets. They’ve had 40 years of other stuff they could substitute since that time, and they don’t; or even going beyond Apollo Moon rockets, beyond Apollo Moon walkers. Television commercials today are showing Apollo Moon walkers as part of their spiel. That’s not an accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Steve, do you have more that you want to add?\n\nWell, I have a couple of questions just to wrap up, not following on what you just said, but anyway, I know you came to NASA at the tail end of the SEI, the Space Exploration Initiative. Do you have lessons learned from that experience?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00665:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.286841, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On that same train of thought, we all know that NASA celebrates its fiftieth anniversary next year. Share with us what you believe to be NASA’s impact on society in the past and now and even in the future."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA’s impact on society, American society especially, is to do things and bring home things that are larger than life. NASA makes us look toward our future. People want to have a future. They want to have a frontier. They want to see and learn and imagine new things.\\n\\n People want to feed their kids and have a roof over their heads and dress warmly against the cold and not be hungry and not worry about where their next car payment is coming from, and they want to have some leisure time. Yes, people want all those things. But they also want to look beyond that when they can, and NASA is the entity above all others in this country that brings that to them.\\n\\n It’s not for nothing that 40 years after we did it, television commercials are still showing Apollo Moon rockets. They’ve had 40 years of other stuff they could substitute since that time, and they don’t; or even going beyond Apollo Moon rockets, beyond Apollo Moon walkers. Television commercials today are showing Apollo Moon walkers as part of their spiel. That’s not an accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Steve, do you have more that you want to add?\n\nWell, I have a couple of questions just to wrap up, not following on what you just said, but anyway, I know you came to NASA at the tail end of the SEI, the Space Exploration Initiative. Do you have lessons learned from that experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t come at the tail; I came at the beginning of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the beginning? You must have even more lessons learned."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00665:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.09649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA’s impact on society, American society especially, is to do things and bring home things that are larger than life. NASA makes us look toward our future. People want to have a future. They want to have a frontier. They want to see and learn and imagine new things.\\n\\n People want to feed their kids and have a roof over their heads and dress warmly against the cold and not be hungry and not worry about where their next car payment is coming from, and they want to have some leisure time. Yes, people want all those things. But they also want to look beyond that when they can, and NASA is the entity above all others in this country that brings that to them.\\n\\n It’s not for nothing that 40 years after we did it, television commercials are still showing Apollo Moon rockets. They’ve had 40 years of other stuff they could substitute since that time, and they don’t; or even going beyond Apollo Moon rockets, beyond Apollo Moon walkers. Television commercials today are showing Apollo Moon walkers as part of their spiel. That’s not an accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Steve, do you have more that you want to add?\n\nWell, I have a couple of questions just to wrap up, not following on what you just said, but anyway, I know you came to NASA at the tail end of the SEI, the Space Exploration Initiative. Do you have lessons learned from that experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t come at the tail; I came at the beginning of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the beginning? You must have even more lessons learned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was the AA for Exploration until it got canceled by the [William J.] Clinton administration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what year was that you came?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00665:98", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 13.329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was the AA for Exploration until it got canceled by the [William J.] Clinton administration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what year was that you came?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "’91."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "’91, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the Exploration Administrator who was hired as a result of the Augustine Committee’s recommendations. I guess the lessons that I would say are learned from that time are that you’ve got to have the President and the Congress both in support. At that time we had the President’s support; the Congress emphatically was not.\\n\\n Today that’s not so. The Congress has been hugely supportive of our program. You never get unanimity, but the Authorization Act, which passed in 2005, December of ’05, was enormously supportive of our agenda. I have now Democratic committee chairs in both the House and the Senate. They are as supportive as were the Republicans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you’re hopeful that the Vision for Space Exploration will go forward, past this administration."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00665:108", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it changes with time. I don’t think a relevant role for a commercial entity can be to send a human being to the Moon today. But I think a relevant role for commercial space activity today can be send a human into orbit and can be sending supplies into orbit. I think that is well within the reach of the industrial space community today.\\n\\n So it’s not what are the roles. It’s what is the attitude. The attitude should be to make available the power of government to offer its markets to commercial enterprise in a hands-off way to stimulate the development of that commercial enterprise. As the technology moves forward, the role of commercial provider can always increase, but not unless the attitude is right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay.\n\nI have nothing further. Do you have any more?\n\nNo.\n\nIs there anything you would like to add, Dr. Griffin? Anything at the end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would like to add that you should call me Mike. [Laughter] “Dr. Griffin,” I don’t like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you would like to add, Mike, before we close out this afternoon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don’t know. No, I answer questions. I don’t pontificate. I try to answer questions. I hope I’ve answered yours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very well. We appreciate the time, and we’ll close for the day and let you get off to the rest of the business at hand."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00665:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would like to add that you should call me Mike. [Laughter] “Dr. Griffin,” I don’t like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you would like to add, Mike, before we close out this afternoon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don’t know. No, I answer questions. I don’t pontificate. I try to answer questions. I hope I’ve answered yours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very well. We appreciate the time, and we’ll close for the day and let you get off to the rest of the business at hand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Call me if you need me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We definitely will. Thank you very much."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.253937232540547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very long, very long, indeed. After Alan's flight, as soon as he was launched, I don't think I breathed for quite some time, and even then, his flight was, what, sixteen minutes. But those were very, very long minutes until we got the word that he was down-range and he had landed exactly where he was supposed to.\\n\\n Then I was taken over to the Cape air strip, and Dr. Douglas and I flew down to Grand Bahama Islands for the post-flight physical exams, and even though he had been recovered and was aboard the ship, he was going to be brought to GBI [Grand Bahama Islands] for his major physical exam. They were seen aboard a ship very briefly, but the more extensive medical exams were conducted there at GBI in that little fly-away hospital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any part of the conversation you had with Alan Shepard after you saw him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you know, I don't. I remember I was so relieved to see him. We all were. And there were so many people talking to him. I think I just smiled. I was just so glad to see him, I don't know that I said anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure your smile said all there was to say to him, too. I’m sure he was glad just to see you as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were just so happy he was back, and it was a great accomplishment. Really, it was a great feat. I think we tend to forget that. With all the exotic technology we have now compared to what was done then, it was really an engineering feat that was unbelievable. The talent that NASA had back there, and really still has, but the talent back then was awesome. The best and the brightest wanted to work for NASA, and rightfully so, because it's a wonderful agency, and the opportunities were unlimited, just to be able to be a part of something as historic as these first flights or any of the flights, but particularly the first ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then Gus Grissom went next. Was it easier for you to see the second one of your friends to launch, or was it as if you were living it all again?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.836057357934074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was afterwards when we heard the details. We were on GBI and didn’t have instant TV like they have now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When John Glenn went up, was there a longer time that you had to feel your anxiety, or did you feel a little bit more comfortable this time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. He was being launched on an Atlas, and we had watched those blow up right and left, and there was tremendous anxiety, at least, again, on my part. But John's flight, I don't remember how many times John's flight was scrubbed because of the weather, which was usually one of the determining factors, and in Florida, as you know, the weather can change instantly. But, again, we'd see a cloud coming, and so they would reschedule the time, or they’d put it into a hold, and that was simply because they just weren’t going to take any chances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Every time that it was put on hold, did you have to start your procedures all over again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, we started some of the procedures all over again. We really didn’t do a lot of the in-depth exams on them. We just made sure that the heart, lung, and skin, and the ears were clear, and that sort of thing, before they left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The others that followed, were all the procedures the same as you had done before, or were they changed as they went through?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.484508175482304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. He was being launched on an Atlas, and we had watched those blow up right and left, and there was tremendous anxiety, at least, again, on my part. But John's flight, I don't remember how many times John's flight was scrubbed because of the weather, which was usually one of the determining factors, and in Florida, as you know, the weather can change instantly. But, again, we'd see a cloud coming, and so they would reschedule the time, or they’d put it into a hold, and that was simply because they just weren’t going to take any chances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Every time that it was put on hold, did you have to start your procedures all over again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, we started some of the procedures all over again. We really didn’t do a lot of the in-depth exams on them. We just made sure that the heart, lung, and skin, and the ears were clear, and that sort of thing, before they left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The others that followed, were all the procedures the same as you had done before, or were they changed as they went through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the preparation before flight was very much the same, yes. I don't know that anything much changed except probably in their simulator training. When an astronaut returned from his flight and during the debriefing, you kind of learn what things need to be changed, and they would try to modify or either add or take away from, say, the flight plan. But there weren't a lot of drastic medical changes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that same method work for you in your medical area? Did you learn from what they had to say and then try to adapt based on what they were telling you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.205009083869225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, we started some of the procedures all over again. We really didn’t do a lot of the in-depth exams on them. We just made sure that the heart, lung, and skin, and the ears were clear, and that sort of thing, before they left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The others that followed, were all the procedures the same as you had done before, or were they changed as they went through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the preparation before flight was very much the same, yes. I don't know that anything much changed except probably in their simulator training. When an astronaut returned from his flight and during the debriefing, you kind of learn what things need to be changed, and they would try to modify or either add or take away from, say, the flight plan. But there weren't a lot of drastic medical changes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that same method work for you in your medical area? Did you learn from what they had to say and then try to adapt based on what they were telling you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, on the medical end of it, really didn’t, again, just didn’t change that much. Nowadays, of course, the medical exams are probably far more in depth than they were back then, and we have a lot more sophisticated equipment to work with than we did back there. We just didn't have much then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everything you kept, all your records, everything was done by hand, is that correct? You didn’t have any type of computer-based equipment."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.761909236823644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at times it seemed endless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you watched these men and you watched them land on the Moon, but when they were on their way back, you were already getting the next crew ready. So your process just kept continuing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s true, and particularly during Gemini and Apollo, I really had no life of my own, because I was at the Cape for two months, I’d be home for two or three weeks, then I’d go back down to the Cape, and it was back and forth and back and forth. I have to confess that it really got old after a while because I was constantly living on the road. I had the same room at the Holiday Inn in Cocoa Beach for nine years. I’ve often joked that we need to make a shrine out of it one of these days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to leave some of your things there, or did you have to start over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I would pack everything back up and then haul it right back down again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, at least you knew where you were going every time."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.291010263137382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s true, and particularly during Gemini and Apollo, I really had no life of my own, because I was at the Cape for two months, I’d be home for two or three weeks, then I’d go back down to the Cape, and it was back and forth and back and forth. I have to confess that it really got old after a while because I was constantly living on the road. I had the same room at the Holiday Inn in Cocoa Beach for nine years. I’ve often joked that we need to make a shrine out of it one of these days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to leave some of your things there, or did you have to start over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I would pack everything back up and then haul it right back down again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, at least you knew where you were going every time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, it was wonderful. It really was like going home whenever I would go down there, and you knew the same people, and everything was very familiar. I had the pleasure of going back for John’s [John H. Glenn, Jr.] flight in October, and I couldn’t believe how much the Cape had grown and changed, and to see, well, Paul [C.] Donnelly and Walter [J.] Kapryan and so many of these engineering people that I had worked with in Hangar S, and it was just wonderful to see everybody. Everybody was having such a good time reminiscing and remembering, and, of course, I was very pleased we were all upright and still walking around. But it was wonderful. It was very heart-warming just to be at the Cape again and to go to Bernard’s Surf and to see the people you’ve worked years and years ago. It was fun, and it was just a very special time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And such a wonderful success."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.99001140348598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I would pack everything back up and then haul it right back down again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, at least you knew where you were going every time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, it was wonderful. It really was like going home whenever I would go down there, and you knew the same people, and everything was very familiar. I had the pleasure of going back for John’s [John H. Glenn, Jr.] flight in October, and I couldn’t believe how much the Cape had grown and changed, and to see, well, Paul [C.] Donnelly and Walter [J.] Kapryan and so many of these engineering people that I had worked with in Hangar S, and it was just wonderful to see everybody. Everybody was having such a good time reminiscing and remembering, and, of course, I was very pleased we were all upright and still walking around. But it was wonderful. It was very heart-warming just to be at the Cape again and to go to Bernard’s Surf and to see the people you’ve worked years and years ago. It was fun, and it was just a very special time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And such a wonderful success."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, and it was so successful, yes, and that’s the other part, and I was so glad that John got to fly again. I know there was some criticism and criticism of NASA, but, come on, it didn't hurt anything, and he deserved to fly again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had a chance to talk with him since he’s returned?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.544457114984422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, it was wonderful. It really was like going home whenever I would go down there, and you knew the same people, and everything was very familiar. I had the pleasure of going back for John’s [John H. Glenn, Jr.] flight in October, and I couldn’t believe how much the Cape had grown and changed, and to see, well, Paul [C.] Donnelly and Walter [J.] Kapryan and so many of these engineering people that I had worked with in Hangar S, and it was just wonderful to see everybody. Everybody was having such a good time reminiscing and remembering, and, of course, I was very pleased we were all upright and still walking around. But it was wonderful. It was very heart-warming just to be at the Cape again and to go to Bernard’s Surf and to see the people you’ve worked years and years ago. It was fun, and it was just a very special time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And such a wonderful success."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, and it was so successful, yes, and that’s the other part, and I was so glad that John got to fly again. I know there was some criticism and criticism of NASA, but, come on, it didn't hurt anything, and he deserved to fly again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had a chance to talk with him since he’s returned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not since he's been back, no. But his son, David, and his wife and the grandkids live there in Berkeley [California], and I met his grandson, who’s just a darling youngster. He came down to interview me for one of his school projects. They're very nice kids, and, of course, very proud of Grandpa, and rightfully so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This mission that you were talking about, with John Glenn, had such a lasting impression on you. As you mentioned, all of them have. But was there one that you remember more than the others, or did they just mesh into each other?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.271619016649357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, and it was so successful, yes, and that’s the other part, and I was so glad that John got to fly again. I know there was some criticism and criticism of NASA, but, come on, it didn't hurt anything, and he deserved to fly again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had a chance to talk with him since he’s returned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not since he's been back, no. But his son, David, and his wife and the grandkids live there in Berkeley [California], and I met his grandson, who’s just a darling youngster. He came down to interview me for one of his school projects. They're very nice kids, and, of course, very proud of Grandpa, and rightfully so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This mission that you were talking about, with John Glenn, had such a lasting impression on you. As you mentioned, all of them have. But was there one that you remember more than the others, or did they just mesh into each other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one would think that they would kind of mesh. But as far as the flights, each one was really very special because it was that particular guy’s flight, and you’re always so happy for them that they finally got to fly and do what they’d worked and trained for and wanted to do for so long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been special for you then to watch Deke Slayton finally get to go."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.635132240721507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not since he's been back, no. But his son, David, and his wife and the grandkids live there in Berkeley [California], and I met his grandson, who’s just a darling youngster. He came down to interview me for one of his school projects. They're very nice kids, and, of course, very proud of Grandpa, and rightfully so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This mission that you were talking about, with John Glenn, had such a lasting impression on you. As you mentioned, all of them have. But was there one that you remember more than the others, or did they just mesh into each other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one would think that they would kind of mesh. But as far as the flights, each one was really very special because it was that particular guy’s flight, and you’re always so happy for them that they finally got to fly and do what they’d worked and trained for and wanted to do for so long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been special for you then to watch Deke Slayton finally get to go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, that was wonderful. The crew had asked me to come back for the mission. I was here at Ames at the time, and, of course, the flight was in July of ’75. What a thrill to see Deke. I don’t think anyone begrudged him that flight. I mean, he finally got to fly, and, as you know, he wasn’t allowed his Mercury flight. So everyone was thrilled to death that he got to go on this ASTP [Apollo Soyuz Test Project] mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to know Deke Slayton as one of the seven, but his role changed when he became in charge of the astronaut corps. Were you still able to have a close relationship with him after he moved into that management position?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.039035823023896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one would think that they would kind of mesh. But as far as the flights, each one was really very special because it was that particular guy’s flight, and you’re always so happy for them that they finally got to fly and do what they’d worked and trained for and wanted to do for so long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been special for you then to watch Deke Slayton finally get to go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, that was wonderful. The crew had asked me to come back for the mission. I was here at Ames at the time, and, of course, the flight was in July of ’75. What a thrill to see Deke. I don’t think anyone begrudged him that flight. I mean, he finally got to fly, and, as you know, he wasn’t allowed his Mercury flight. So everyone was thrilled to death that he got to go on this ASTP [Apollo Soyuz Test Project] mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to know Deke Slayton as one of the seven, but his role changed when he became in charge of the astronaut corps. Were you still able to have a close relationship with him after he moved into that management position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because he was always at the Cape whenever the crews came down for their flight. There was a certain cadre of people, and Deke was definitely always there. He was in charge of the astronauts. He made the flight selections. He made the crew selections. That never changed. When I was in Houston, he always came for his physical exams. So I did see him then, and I would see him around the center. But the relationship never really changed at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And once you had these guys in your life, they just didn’t go away, did they?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.598928692248773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, that was wonderful. The crew had asked me to come back for the mission. I was here at Ames at the time, and, of course, the flight was in July of ’75. What a thrill to see Deke. I don’t think anyone begrudged him that flight. I mean, he finally got to fly, and, as you know, he wasn’t allowed his Mercury flight. So everyone was thrilled to death that he got to go on this ASTP [Apollo Soyuz Test Project] mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to know Deke Slayton as one of the seven, but his role changed when he became in charge of the astronaut corps. Were you still able to have a close relationship with him after he moved into that management position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because he was always at the Cape whenever the crews came down for their flight. There was a certain cadre of people, and Deke was definitely always there. He was in charge of the astronauts. He made the flight selections. He made the crew selections. That never changed. When I was in Houston, he always came for his physical exams. So I did see him then, and I would see him around the center. But the relationship never really changed at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And once you had these guys in your life, they just didn’t go away, did they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never let them get away. They tried, but they were never successful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I bet they knew where to find you, too."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.332142991387524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because he was always at the Cape whenever the crews came down for their flight. There was a certain cadre of people, and Deke was definitely always there. He was in charge of the astronauts. He made the flight selections. He made the crew selections. That never changed. When I was in Houston, he always came for his physical exams. So I did see him then, and I would see him around the center. But the relationship never really changed at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And once you had these guys in your life, they just didn’t go away, did they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never let them get away. They tried, but they were never successful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I bet they knew where to find you, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] Oh, yes, they did know where to find me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came to the Manned Spacecraft Center in Houston, there was some transition. Did you still have your authority as far as your management was concerned? Because you were changing locations, did you have to change roles? Could you share with us some of those changes that went on with that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.146825545986136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never let them get away. They tried, but they were never successful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I bet they knew where to find you, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] Oh, yes, they did know where to find me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came to the Manned Spacecraft Center in Houston, there was some transition. Did you still have your authority as far as your management was concerned? Because you were changing locations, did you have to change roles? Could you share with us some of those changes that went on with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went from being an Air Force employee to a NASA employee, obviously another government employee. My duties certainly expanded because now we had wives and children, and that entailed other things, other than just flight-type activities or pre-flight medical activities. It became busier because the population kept growing and growing.\\n\\n Now we were dealing with the wives and with the children. It had been decided that the flight medicine clinic not only would see the astronauts, but the charter was for us was to see and care for the families, in addition to all the pilots that flew NASA aircraft that are based there at Ellington [Field, Houston, Texas]. But the medical care was, again, to be afforded to the families, and the reason we were designated as family physicians was that the astronauts were usually always on travel or gone and rarely ever home, and at least this way they knew that they could go away from home, knowing that if anything happened, we were there to take care of their families. If it was above what we could do in flight medicine, they were referred to a specialist. But the flight surgeons and myself became the family physicians for them, if you will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been a comfort to the families and to the astronauts, though, that they could go anywhere they needed to go and that their families were safe and kept private, the dealings with them."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 20.155676719311305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it seemed that it was a very busy time. I was there, what, ten years, and I think there was only one year out of the ten that I was able to take most of my annual leave. We’d have flights over Thanksgiving and Christmas. So holidays really weren’t a big issue. But nobody really seemed to mind, because your whole goal was to be there and to get the guy launched safely and recover it safely. So holidays became almost nonexistent much of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No day was routine, but yet, did you have many days, or can you remember a day that you had a surprise or incidents or a situation that came up that you felt that you had to deal with on a real-time basis that just hadn’t occurred before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] Well, a couple of times when the astronauts were out training in the lunar vehicle, in what we used to call the “flying bedstead” out there at Ellington’s, and a couple of them happened to land in chiggers. This one, particularly, came racing into the office, dropped his pants, and said, “My god, I’m dying. Do something.” Of course, that was a wonderful sight. [Laughter] I’d say, “God , the blinds are open. Don’t—.” Well, anyway, they’d finally end up closing the door, and we’d pull the blinds. But wonderful, fun things like that fortunately didn’t happen all that often."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that expression \"You've seen everything\" must have come true at some point. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Nothing surprised me, believe me, or very little surprised me. You're right. The days weren't routine, and yet, in many ways, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes the astronauts would play practical jokes, as many times that people get together, they do. Do you feel that that helped them bond with each other, or did they ever surprise you with any of those types of things?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.099417577892105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All at once, and, yes, I was terrified. But that went away quickly. But I don’t think it was instant bonding. But then it’s like with anything. The more you’re exposed, either a friend or whatever, the better you get to know them, and that takes time. Friends take time, and friendships develop over time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you easily recognizable to them? Were you in a nurse uniform?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I wore a white Air Force nurse’s uniform and wore an Air Force nurse’s cap. Well, I was the only female out there, so I sort of stood out like a sore thumb."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were easy to find in that crowd."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] Well, yes, and I’m not very short either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the time, becoming a nurse was a comfortable position for a woman. People accepted that. But you definitely were in an environment filled with men."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.66601953099123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I wore a white Air Force nurse’s uniform and wore an Air Force nurse’s cap. Well, I was the only female out there, so I sort of stood out like a sore thumb."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were easy to find in that crowd."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] Well, yes, and I’m not very short either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the time, becoming a nurse was a comfortable position for a woman. People accepted that. But you definitely were in an environment filled with men."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back then it was completely a man’s world. In fact, when I was growing up, you either became a nurse, a teacher, or a secretary. Those were people’s life ambition, and there was probably the odd female engineer, but women really weren’t encouraged to, as they say now, “be all that you can be,” and I’d always wanted to be a schoolteacher. But fortunately, I got over that.\\n\\n So at the Cape, it really was totally a man’s world. I was the only female in Hangar S, except for maybe there was probably a secretary here or there. It was all men, and never once was I ever discriminated against or never made to feel uncomfortable. It was a wonderful, absolutely wonderful environment. Of course, I wasn’t really the sensitive kind, if you will, or looking for every little nuance, that I think is prevalent today. But I was just treated beautifully by everyone and nicely and with respect, and we had a lot of fun. We joked and kidded around, but we were also very professional, and we each had our job to do. But I was never discriminated against. In fact, in my entire career, I’ve never felt that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although you were the only female, you were the only nurse, and you began creating this position and this role that had never been thought of before, did you see yourself as the astronauts’ nurse or an aerospace nurse or a nurse filling a job? How did you see yourself?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.83374414112365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, for aerospace, definitely. But that whole field has grown over the years, and I don’t think through anything I’ve done. But the whole field of aerospace medicine has definitely grown because, again, there are more pilots and now there are more astronauts, and it’s a whole specialty field now. It’s like sports medicine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have something that you feel is the greatest accomplishment that you were able to do when you were in this part of your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I don’t know of any one thing. I was probably the only consistent medical person in their life, if you will, from Mercury through the Skylab program all those years. I don’t know that you would consider that a great accomplishment, and I don’t know that I accomplished anything spectacular, that I did myself. Again, it was my association with them and what that brought, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you did keep going through all this one long continuous stay that ended up being your career. Did you find that to be one of your hardest parts, was just to keep going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, there were days when I wondered if I was going to make through the day. I got very tired. In fact, when I left to come here in ’73, I remember I was at the Cape, and it must have been the last Apollo flight, and I was walking down the hall, and I thought, “What are you doing here?” I was so tired. I didn’t have any help, and it just became overwhelming. So finally at that point I decided I just had to have a change, and at that time a lot of my favorite people were leaving and going on to other jobs. Well, obviously, I think it could be diagnosed as true job burnout. But I was very, very tired, and I was just worn out at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the change in duties and the change in responsibilities for NASA now that you have moved on to Ames."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00429:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 34.25971571235961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I don’t know of any one thing. I was probably the only consistent medical person in their life, if you will, from Mercury through the Skylab program all those years. I don’t know that you would consider that a great accomplishment, and I don’t know that I accomplished anything spectacular, that I did myself. Again, it was my association with them and what that brought, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you did keep going through all this one long continuous stay that ended up being your career. Did you find that to be one of your hardest parts, was just to keep going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, there were days when I wondered if I was going to make through the day. I got very tired. In fact, when I left to come here in ’73, I remember I was at the Cape, and it must have been the last Apollo flight, and I was walking down the hall, and I thought, “What are you doing here?” I was so tired. I didn’t have any help, and it just became overwhelming. So finally at that point I decided I just had to have a change, and at that time a lot of my favorite people were leaving and going on to other jobs. Well, obviously, I think it could be diagnosed as true job burnout. But I was very, very tired, and I was just worn out at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the change in duties and the change in responsibilities for NASA now that you have moved on to Ames."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went from a very operational environmental, totally operational, into a research environment. Boy, that was not an easy transition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find your pace slowed down?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00378:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 46.64860271853896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. That was in the office environment. Yes. It improved a lot when we got a Control Center. Then you could get things run in relatively real time and know where things stood and know what you had to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you could do it all right there where you guys were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This will be a little bit of a jump, but I don't want to, again, cover too much that was in your earlier interview. In the missions, as you began, you had talked about training in your earlier interviews and how a lot of what you had to do—you put together these tapes, and sometimes they matched what happened and sometimes didn't in the training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What people did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With that training, could you go into a little more details on what you would do there, the control team, but also working with the astronauts and maybe even some of the engineering teams to try and help—did you work together to try and build those training, or—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00378:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 56.575226063185966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learn more as you go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked a little bit about your training and the computers, how you would have to, in the office, run back and forth, but when you got in the control room things could go at a faster pace, looking at those computers that you were using in the Mercury Program and then through Gemini and Apollo and comparing them to what we have today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I mean, the stuff we had, I can't rattle off the specifics of it, but the computing machines that we were using, IBM make at the time, were sort of centralized facilities, as mainframes were at that time, still are to some degree, but the power of those machines was probably less than what people have in their pentium processor PCs today. I mean, it was limited, and we had to program them and keep them stable for a while, so you couldn't change it very easily, it sort of had a certain way of being inputted to and a certain way of outputting, and that was it.\\n\\n Today the young people can rearrange their displays, their color displays and so on. In our time, we had to figure that out ahead of time, how we wanted to look at things, and program it all, and it was fairly rigid, because to change it would take months to get it changed through the software system and to get it tested and validated and verified and be sure enough that it was right so that we could use it in a flight. So we went pretty slow on making any changes in the computer system, and therefore we had to anticipate what we wanted and program it ahead of time, and sometimes, when we got there, it wasn't exactly in the form we needed, but that's the way it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it did work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked, but the machines were probably nowhere near as powerful as the average machine that people have on their desk today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We look at how history will look back at things, and kids nowadays are raised with pentium computers sitting on their desks."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00378:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 62.86136229242885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I mean, the stuff we had, I can't rattle off the specifics of it, but the computing machines that we were using, IBM make at the time, were sort of centralized facilities, as mainframes were at that time, still are to some degree, but the power of those machines was probably less than what people have in their pentium processor PCs today. I mean, it was limited, and we had to program them and keep them stable for a while, so you couldn't change it very easily, it sort of had a certain way of being inputted to and a certain way of outputting, and that was it.\\n\\n Today the young people can rearrange their displays, their color displays and so on. In our time, we had to figure that out ahead of time, how we wanted to look at things, and program it all, and it was fairly rigid, because to change it would take months to get it changed through the software system and to get it tested and validated and verified and be sure enough that it was right so that we could use it in a flight. So we went pretty slow on making any changes in the computer system, and therefore we had to anticipate what we wanted and program it ahead of time, and sometimes, when we got there, it wasn't exactly in the form we needed, but that's the way it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it did work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked, but the machines were probably nowhere near as powerful as the average machine that people have on their desk today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We look at how history will look back at things, and kids nowadays are raised with pentium computers sitting on their desks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think they might look back at these early programs and say, \"Wow, how did they do that with what they had?\""}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00378:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 67.6237358804765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked, but the machines were probably nowhere near as powerful as the average machine that people have on their desk today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We look at how history will look back at things, and kids nowadays are raised with pentium computers sitting on their desks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think they might look back at these early programs and say, \"Wow, how did they do that with what they had?\""}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they might. Certainly the kids who are real good at computers, which most of them are, would certainly, if they knew what we had in those days and were able to compare them with what they use today, they would probably laugh. But I think the thing that I sense in young people who want to look back and hear about it is, they respond more to the adventure of it than they do to the technical details of how good or bad or early the computing systems were. My conversations with young people, they just get fired up about how exciting that was and how exciting it will be again in the future some day when we go farther away from Earth orbit than we are able to do with the Shuttle and the Space Station.\\n\\n So we're in kind of a consolidation period of exploiting lower Earth orbit, and that has its own adventure, its own agenda for adventure, built into it. But the Apollo stuff, I think, triggers in people kind of a sense that something big and something unique and something first time in the annals of humankind was done, and it was done fairly early on with nowhere near the kind of technology available to people today, especially in the computing field. I think people recognize that. I don't know if they have exact bit-for-bit comparisons to the capability that we had, but I think it's the adventure that captures them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what an adventure."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00378:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 25, "return_to_go": 75.13748431164056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think they might look back at these early programs and say, \"Wow, how did they do that with what they had?\""}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they might. Certainly the kids who are real good at computers, which most of them are, would certainly, if they knew what we had in those days and were able to compare them with what they use today, they would probably laugh. But I think the thing that I sense in young people who want to look back and hear about it is, they respond more to the adventure of it than they do to the technical details of how good or bad or early the computing systems were. My conversations with young people, they just get fired up about how exciting that was and how exciting it will be again in the future some day when we go farther away from Earth orbit than we are able to do with the Shuttle and the Space Station.\\n\\n So we're in kind of a consolidation period of exploiting lower Earth orbit, and that has its own adventure, its own agenda for adventure, built into it. But the Apollo stuff, I think, triggers in people kind of a sense that something big and something unique and something first time in the annals of humankind was done, and it was done fairly early on with nowhere near the kind of technology available to people today, especially in the computing field. I think people recognize that. I don't know if they have exact bit-for-bit comparisons to the capability that we had, but I think it's the adventure that captures them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what an adventure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was, a great adventure, a grand adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You moved from the Mercury Program to Gemini, and with that move, the Space Center moved to Houston. When did you hear that it was going to move to Houston, and what were your thoughts at that point?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00378:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.64960679783036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very crucial, and it doesn't get full recognition, I don't think, for how significant it was. It enabled the Apollo Program to be successful in terms of schedule, to be successful and to get there within the decade, which was the original goal. I think we would have gotten there, but it would have taken longer. As a matter of fact, I've also observed that it probably would have taken us so long that we might have experienced Apollo 13 before we ever landed on the moon if we did not have the Gemini Program, and who knows how that might have changed the history and the dynamics of things.\\n\\n It was great, and it was great fun. I mean, we just had a wonderful time doing it. We just had a wonderful time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't all that hard work, like you said before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's not work. My father did that. I didn't have to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gemini was crucial, and so I'd like to talk some about each of the missions and what involvement you did have with it. I know you said you didn't have a whole lot of involvement on the earlier programs, but you were in the Control Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Gemini III was the first manned flight, John [W.] Young and Gus [Virgil I.] Grissom. I think I had the sequence—I mean, I never can remember exactly what the sequence was, but we were just bringing this Control Center over here on line. So I think the first mission, the Gemini III—although I could be wrong about this and flip the locations—but I think the primary team went to the Cape, and we operated the Control Center back here as a test. So I was a flight director running the Control Center back here, following on to the thing at the Cape. And then on the next flight, Gemini IV, the primary flight team was back here running this Control Center, and I went down to the Cape in case something happened to this one because it was our first one. So I was involved in the first two flights in that way, and I saw it was Gemini III and IV, but—I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's correct."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00378:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 36.663799213924634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the right direction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When Grissom and Young tested out this new spacecraft with all these different systems, and you said you were working in the mission control here as the back-up to the one in Florida, do you remember how the mission went, both from—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very short. All I remember is it went fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And everything in the Mission Control, then, tested out fine as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The next mission, then, was a very big step, too, with the EVA."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00378:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.113185236659245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all went well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Luckily, you didn't have as many learning steps as you did with the EVA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Gemini was probably the learning experience. When we got to Apollo, we liked to keep it on track, nominal, kind of don't deviate. Once we got to the moon, we weren't into doing tests with how to do this, because we had to get them there to the command ship to get home. And they all turned out that way. As a matter of fact, Apollo 11, that was the shift I was on, the ascent from the moon and the rendezvous back to the command ship, and it just went by the book. Everything worked just fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And luckily it was all—not all, but a good portion, due to the success of Gemini."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Successes in Gemini, and, of course, the Apollo hardware worked greatly. It was great stuff, worked great most of the time, and, you know, everybody was ready for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a few more questions before we wind up for the day."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00378:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.014650262954717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Gemini was probably the learning experience. When we got to Apollo, we liked to keep it on track, nominal, kind of don't deviate. Once we got to the moon, we weren't into doing tests with how to do this, because we had to get them there to the command ship to get home. And they all turned out that way. As a matter of fact, Apollo 11, that was the shift I was on, the ascent from the moon and the rendezvous back to the command ship, and it just went by the book. Everything worked just fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And luckily it was all—not all, but a good portion, due to the success of Gemini."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Successes in Gemini, and, of course, the Apollo hardware worked greatly. It was great stuff, worked great most of the time, and, you know, everybody was ready for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a few more questions before we wind up for the day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were beginning to work as the flight director in these missions that we've talked about in some detail. I'd like to go back one step to talk about Gemini VIII briefly, if we could. Were you in mission control at the time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00378:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 30.016278069949685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Successes in Gemini, and, of course, the Apollo hardware worked greatly. It was great stuff, worked great most of the time, and, you know, everybody was ready for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a few more questions before we wind up for the day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were beginning to work as the flight director in these missions that we've talked about in some detail. I'd like to go back one step to talk about Gemini VIII briefly, if we could. Were you in mission control at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was around, yes. I was sitting around watching it, but I wasn't assigned a shift or anything. I was there, and when the vehicle started to spin up and when the crew separated, that was, I think, the first time we really landed in a contingency landing area. I may have my oceans wrong, but we were planning for the Atlantic, and we ended up landing in the Pacific, terminated the flight early, and so on. Yes, I was around watching all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Comparing that to when you were around for Apollo 13, which was another big event, what was the seriousness of Gemini VIII?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00378:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 44.739261874694805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did. He did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know ideas are still being bandied about with the tether."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, yes, and there will be applications for it. I don't know what they are yet, but there will be. But it was exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess at the time you were just trying everything you could think of that might apply to what you could need."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've talked about Gemini being such a vital step between Mercury and Apollo and making it happen and achieving the goal of landing on the moon by the end of the decade. There was at one time, though, some talk to go straight from Mercury to Apollo. Had you heard of any of that at all?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00378:128", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.173200000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I think in the next few years, hopefully."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a story worth telling. And they brought a mix because, well, one, we were all American people, but most of them had a NASA-NACA—all our management all had an NACA background.\\n\\n By the way, as part of that background, Bob Gilruth, for example, actively cooperated from Langley Aeronautics to England, whatever the research organization was called over there, I've forgotten, with all the World War II stuff. So he was actively involved in helping to orchestrate the best of both of us in terms of aeronautic research and aeronautic applications. But those men had a different kind of experience and a different kind of background and so on, so they brought just another mix to the soup, or stew, that was becoming the Space Task Group. A tremendous addition. A tremendous addition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm glad you brought it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Summer, did you have any questions?\n\nYes, I have a couple of questions. The first is, you mentioned that the Space Task Group mainly had a NACA state of mind, basically, which, from my understanding, is more pure research than—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00378:130", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 15.748000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a story worth telling. And they brought a mix because, well, one, we were all American people, but most of them had a NASA-NACA—all our management all had an NACA background.\\n\\n By the way, as part of that background, Bob Gilruth, for example, actively cooperated from Langley Aeronautics to England, whatever the research organization was called over there, I've forgotten, with all the World War II stuff. So he was actively involved in helping to orchestrate the best of both of us in terms of aeronautic research and aeronautic applications. But those men had a different kind of experience and a different kind of background and so on, so they brought just another mix to the soup, or stew, that was becoming the Space Task Group. A tremendous addition. A tremendous addition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm glad you brought it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Summer, did you have any questions?\n\nYes, I have a couple of questions. The first is, you mentioned that the Space Task Group mainly had a NACA state of mind, basically, which, from my understanding, is more pure research than—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how difficult was it to make that transition from that research state of mind to a functioning program or work crew?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00354:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 93.693451439941, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The last flight I worked, actually worked on personally as a flight controller, was STS-4. After that I was in management: technical assistant, a branch chief, and then eventually deputy division, division [chief], and then I moved to facilities. I can also give you some other names if you want to get some more detail. Why don’t we go through the questions or however you’d like to do this and then see where it goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s perfectly fine. I’m just looking for information to flesh this out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me see. Did you get to read what I wrote?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did, I did, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you have any questions on those?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m wondering if you can talk a little bit more about the facility modifications themselves."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00354:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 101.88161271104555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me see. Did you get to read what I wrote?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did, I did, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you have any questions on those?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m wondering if you can talk a little bit more about the facility modifications themselves."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. I numbered. You mean typical changes instituted at MCC [Mission Control Center], that question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the typical changes instituted at the MCC for a new Space Shuttle mission."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00354:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 39, "return_to_go": 107.64623634560617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you have any questions on those?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m wondering if you can talk a little bit more about the facility modifications themselves."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. I numbered. You mean typical changes instituted at MCC [Mission Control Center], that question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the typical changes instituted at the MCC for a new Space Shuttle mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me give you some more as background. The Mission Control Center originally, of course, was built for Apollo. Then it was modified or evolved over time. Some of it was just pure replacement of hardware. IBM [International Business Machines], “Here’s a new machine; we got a new operating system.” So we incorporated those kind of things, and then we laid our apps [applications] on top of that. As technology evolved, when you could justify it, you’d bring it in. Apollo evolved to Skylab, and then Skylab evolved to Shuttle. The Mission Control Center originally for Shuttle, from the outside, looked pretty much like it did for Apollo and Skylab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were using the same consoles for STS-1?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.219292488169344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, two things come to mind. One is, when I—when it was happening in all of that era, I don’t think any of us really recognized how significant what we were doing—it—we knew it was significant. We didn’t realize, I don’t think at the time, how fortunate [we were] and what kind of capability did we have to have to ever even get into this position. In many cases, I think I go back again to the analogy of the fighter squadron. You go into a fighter squadron today, just like then, and one of the things that always shocks you is how young these people look. And they are young. I mean, those F-15s and F-16s and F-22s that are coming along now, these—they look like kids flying them.\\n\\n And I’m sure that the—that we looked that way. Because in many cases, and I’ve discussed this with Gene Kranz, he was looking for people with flying backgrounds because he thought that skill would transfer, and there was no other place to go find them. And he thought that skill would transfer. And so I really think it—we were young. But it was the—it was a young person’s business. Now the big difference I see today, which is of course a big improvement, is that we were all guys. All men. And of course, now we have men and women in Mission Control—and should have them. We just didn’t have the skill base at that time to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The rest of the country hadn’t caught up either."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t have the people in the pipeline."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were right along with the rest of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Kraft’s protégés is that first tier of flight directors—John [D.] Hodge, Gene Kranz, Glynn [S.] Lunney—were all people that you worked closely with. I’d be interested in your kind of thumbnail sketches of each of those. And what did they pick up uniquely from Kraft? What did they bring to it themselves?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.24365832018816, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t have the people in the pipeline."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were right along with the rest of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Kraft’s protégés is that first tier of flight directors—John [D.] Hodge, Gene Kranz, Glynn [S.] Lunney—were all people that you worked closely with. I’d be interested in your kind of thumbnail sketches of each of those. And what did they pick up uniquely from Kraft? What did they bring to it themselves?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, the guy that probably became more Kraft-like was Lunney. Glynn Lunney had many of the same traits as Kraft. He was quick to make a decision. He was a little blustery every once in a while. Confident as all get out. And I always thought that Glynn had a lot of Kraft look to him and feel to him. Kranz was—had some Kraft kind of features to him, but he was his own guy. As you know, he—we always called him the Prussian General. He—and he had that very military bearing, preciseness, the—that Kraft didn’t. Kraft, I think, went more on gut feel and emotion and—, where Gene was more of a do-it-by-the-numbers, by-the-book kind of [guy]. John Hodge, I don’t think, matched any of the others. He came from a different—he was a technical guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hodge came out of the Canadian—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.300812740973038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, the guy that probably became more Kraft-like was Lunney. Glynn Lunney had many of the same traits as Kraft. He was quick to make a decision. He was a little blustery every once in a while. Confident as all get out. And I always thought that Glynn had a lot of Kraft look to him and feel to him. Kranz was—had some Kraft kind of features to him, but he was his own guy. As you know, he—we always called him the Prussian General. He—and he had that very military bearing, preciseness, the—that Kraft didn’t. Kraft, I think, went more on gut feel and emotion and—, where Gene was more of a do-it-by-the-numbers, by-the-book kind of [guy]. John Hodge, I don’t think, matched any of the others. He came from a different—he was a technical guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hodge came out of the Canadian—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Avro—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—Avro group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—group. And John brought a different set of skills to the table. He was a very strong technical guy. And I think operations was not his first choice or first love or anything like that. And I think that’s one reason he didn’t stay in it very long. I think he had other talents that went to work somewhere else. And, you know, he got—I think, as I recall, he went into advanced programs when he left. He was very good. He was a visionary almost. Flight operations didn’t have much room for visionary. You had to make the hardware work that you had in front of you at the time. So I think John did fine as a flight director, but he just didn’t stay in it very long because I don’t think it was his bag. But they were all very capable people, and all fun to work with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which of the bunch, if you were working as a flight controller, a member of the team—which was the easiest for you to work with and to work for of that bunch?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.445347489970041, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Avro—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—Avro group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—group. And John brought a different set of skills to the table. He was a very strong technical guy. And I think operations was not his first choice or first love or anything like that. And I think that’s one reason he didn’t stay in it very long. I think he had other talents that went to work somewhere else. And, you know, he got—I think, as I recall, he went into advanced programs when he left. He was very good. He was a visionary almost. Flight operations didn’t have much room for visionary. You had to make the hardware work that you had in front of you at the time. So I think John did fine as a flight director, but he just didn’t stay in it very long because I don’t think it was his bag. But they were all very capable people, and all fun to work with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which of the bunch, if you were working as a flight controller, a member of the team—which was the easiest for you to work with and to work for of that bunch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I think when I was a flight controller, the guy that I probably related to the fastest (and of course he was an icon to me, even though he probably shouldn’t have been but was) Kraft. I always felt honored to work with him when he was flight director. But, Gene Kranz was always easy, and so was Lunney. They were—none of them [were] difficult. They were all demanding to the point that they wanted you to be prepared. And that was not an issue in those days. We all worked so hard at what we were trying to do and, as I said earlier, nobody wanted to screw up in front of the peers. So it was—the best motivation we had was the peer pressure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kranz’s organization always struck me as being helpful because he worried every little issue and problem and communicated them so thoroughly over the loop that everybody knew what was going on—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.71705276663338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—group. And John brought a different set of skills to the table. He was a very strong technical guy. And I think operations was not his first choice or first love or anything like that. And I think that’s one reason he didn’t stay in it very long. I think he had other talents that went to work somewhere else. And, you know, he got—I think, as I recall, he went into advanced programs when he left. He was very good. He was a visionary almost. Flight operations didn’t have much room for visionary. You had to make the hardware work that you had in front of you at the time. So I think John did fine as a flight director, but he just didn’t stay in it very long because I don’t think it was his bag. But they were all very capable people, and all fun to work with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which of the bunch, if you were working as a flight controller, a member of the team—which was the easiest for you to work with and to work for of that bunch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh I think when I was a flight controller, the guy that I probably related to the fastest (and of course he was an icon to me, even though he probably shouldn’t have been but was) Kraft. I always felt honored to work with him when he was flight director. But, Gene Kranz was always easy, and so was Lunney. They were—none of them [were] difficult. They were all demanding to the point that they wanted you to be prepared. And that was not an issue in those days. We all worked so hard at what we were trying to do and, as I said earlier, nobody wanted to screw up in front of the peers. So it was—the best motivation we had was the peer pressure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kranz’s organization always struck me as being helpful because he worried every little issue and problem and communicated them so thoroughly over the loop that everybody knew what was going on—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and it got worked over and over and over again. So the problem and the approach that was being taken was so clear."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.700065143991827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and it got worked over and over and over again. So the problem and the approach that was being taken was so clear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Gene was by far the most detailed guy and all that. But he—everybody knew what he was trying to do and where he was headed. Kraft and Lunney [were] more gut feel. Strong technically also, but [they] had that guy feel that could—most of the time they knew the answer already. So did Gene."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even when I became a flight director, by the time you elevate to that point you pretty well know what’s going on. But you’ve got these great guys that—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never had the pleasure of seeing Kraft operating as a flight director. But the one trait that I sensed all of you had, from him, was the tendency to make the flight controllers take the responsibility for the decision."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.222294604435364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Gene was by far the most detailed guy and all that. But he—everybody knew what he was trying to do and where he was headed. Kraft and Lunney [were] more gut feel. Strong technically also, but [they] had that guy feel that could—most of the time they knew the answer already. So did Gene."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even when I became a flight director, by the time you elevate to that point you pretty well know what’s going on. But you’ve got these great guys that—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never had the pleasure of seeing Kraft operating as a flight director. But the one trait that I sensed all of you had, from him, was the tendency to make the flight controllers take the responsibility for the decision."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Amen. That is what we learned, all of us learned, from Kraft, watching him. He would never, ever try to do your job. I recall on Apollo (I think it was Apollo 12), after we got hit by lightning, I was—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you about that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.913660671594847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even when I became a flight director, by the time you elevate to that point you pretty well know what’s going on. But you’ve got these great guys that—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never had the pleasure of seeing Kraft operating as a flight director. But the one trait that I sensed all of you had, from him, was the tendency to make the flight controllers take the responsibility for the decision."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Amen. That is what we learned, all of us learned, from Kraft, watching him. He would never, ever try to do your job. I recall on Apollo (I think it was Apollo 12), after we got hit by lightning, I was—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Maybe I should wait—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, go ahead. That’s fine."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.681845190660944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Amen. That is what we learned, all of us learned, from Kraft, watching him. He would never, ever try to do your job. I recall on Apollo (I think it was Apollo 12), after we got hit by lightning, I was—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Maybe I should wait—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, go ahead. That’s fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just going to say: I can remember, we got hit by lightning right after liftoff, and it tumbled the spacecraft’s platform, and thank God the Saturn V continued to work just fine. And I was the flight director, and it was my first job as a launch flight director. And I thought we were going to have to abort. I never will forget that feeling. My heart was in my throat. I could—but the training came through. We are—I’ve gone back and listened to that voice tape a lot of times. And nobody was ever hurried. Nobody was panicked. First thing I did was I looked at the plot and asked the FIDO (the flight dynamics officer), were we still okay? And we were gaining altitude. And I remember, flashing through my mind very fast, that, “Well, if we’re going to abort, let’s don’t abort early. Let’s get some more altitude and we’ll just punch off this thing if we have to.”\\n\\n To make a long story short: We got everything back under control. But the platform was still rolling. The inertial platform that measured your attitude in—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was in the spacecraft?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.467696678767625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s right. And so he—but he thought under all of that he saw a flash. And so that’s what started us thinking that it may have been a lightning strike, and it’s what worried us. Because at the point that we got into orbit, we weren’t sure if we’d fried something back in the back end in the service module. Because we didn’t know where it had hit—and—the lightning, if it was lightning.\\n\\n We got some quick pictures out of the Cape. I think that we might’ve already even started on our way to the Moon by then. They got some pictures out of the Cape that showed some lightning discharges back down. We probably created our own lightning, is what we finally figured out months later. A week later.\\n\\n But we were afraid we may have fried something so badly that we jeopardized the mission. We checked out everything we could in the rear end on the service module. And that proved to be a good call. We went on to the Moon. We had a worry about the heatshield. And the reason that we did is because we didn’t know if it had done any—if the lightning had hit right back in that area, it might’ve cracked it or damaged it or something. Of course that played out later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it wouldn’t have made it any worse if you’d gone on to the Moon before coming back around anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. And once we got into orbit, I mean, we had that that trip to make anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to come back sooner or later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know how many vehicles have been struck by lightning in launch, but I know of at least two Atlases that were struck by lightning that that were lost."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.852996309741805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. And once we got into orbit, I mean, we had that that trip to make anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to come back sooner or later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know how many vehicles have been struck by lightning in launch, but I know of at least two Atlases that were struck by lightning that that were lost."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of them a couple of years after—well, several years after. In fact, it was fairly close to the Challenger [51-L]. They were after the Challenger accident when an Atlas was launched in very similar circumstances at the Cape [Cape Canaveral, Florida], hit by lightning, and it tumbled—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.392218121935338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know how many vehicles have been struck by lightning in launch, but I know of at least two Atlases that were struck by lightning that that were lost."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of them a couple of years after—well, several years after. In fact, it was fairly close to the Challenger [51-L]. They were after the Challenger accident when an Atlas was launched in very similar circumstances at the Cape [Cape Canaveral, Florida], hit by lightning, and it tumbled—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tumbled it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—the guidance system, and it was lost."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.880242357705932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of them a couple of years after—well, several years after. In fact, it was fairly close to the Challenger [51-L]. They were after the Challenger accident when an Atlas was launched in very similar circumstances at the Cape [Cape Canaveral, Florida], hit by lightning, and it tumbled—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tumbled it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—the guidance system, and it was lost."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we were so fortunate in Apollo 12. I—you know we had the separate guidance system for the launch vehicle (the Saturn), and then we had the spacecraft guidance system. And during the launch phase, the spacecraft guidance system was just along for the ride. And somehow that lightning, when it hit, got this guidance system, but it did nothing to the Saturn’s guidance system. And if it had been the other way around, that could’ve been a—it could’ve been a real disaster. A real tragedy. And, so we were very—we were extremely lucky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, in fact a couple of people were in a position (the commander, Pete Conrad, and you and the flight controllers) to have made an abort call on the information you had—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.533602619673257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tumbled it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—the guidance system, and it was lost."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we were so fortunate in Apollo 12. I—you know we had the separate guidance system for the launch vehicle (the Saturn), and then we had the spacecraft guidance system. And during the launch phase, the spacecraft guidance system was just along for the ride. And somehow that lightning, when it hit, got this guidance system, but it did nothing to the Saturn’s guidance system. And if it had been the other way around, that could’ve been a—it could’ve been a real disaster. A real tragedy. And, so we were very—we were extremely lucky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, in fact a couple of people were in a position (the commander, Pete Conrad, and you and the flight controllers) to have made an abort call on the information you had—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—if you had reacted immediately, wouldn’t you?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.634053680343325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he didn’t say “What?” He had remembered it, and he—as soon as he did it, it restored our data. And then we could see—he—John could see that the fuel cells had been kicked off line and the reentry batteries were the only thing holding up any voltages at all. And—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The crew was in the dark for part of that, weren’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they—almost the dark. They—the lights—the main cabin lights were out. But he still had the caution and warning lights, and there were some other minor lights. They never did go completely dark, but it was a touch-and-go situation. When I listen to that on tape now, from the time the thing started till the time we had power restored, I think is something a little less than 2 minutes. At the time it seemed like it was forever. But all that time we were gaining altitude, and so I figured, “Let’s don’t do anything here until we—.” It was obvious that the Saturn was steering okay. So—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As I recall, you got the tape from the internal crew conversations in the cockpit at that time. With downlink, very quickly we had those in Mission Control."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a pretty lively tape."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.482281867048137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they—almost the dark. They—the lights—the main cabin lights were out. But he still had the caution and warning lights, and there were some other minor lights. They never did go completely dark, but it was a touch-and-go situation. When I listen to that on tape now, from the time the thing started till the time we had power restored, I think is something a little less than 2 minutes. At the time it seemed like it was forever. But all that time we were gaining altitude, and so I figured, “Let’s don’t do anything here until we—.” It was obvious that the Saturn was steering okay. So—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As I recall, you got the tape from the internal crew conversations in the cockpit at that time. With downlink, very quickly we had those in Mission Control."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a pretty lively tape."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I’ve still got a copy of those. And they’re very funny. It was a little bit—those three guys were a little bit like—you know sometime in a car accident or a near car accident when you have a close call and then you talk about it and everybody gets kind of giddy and “Whoo boy, that was close!” “Yeah, yeah, that was—.” These guys, between themselves, Pete had that giggly laugh anyway, and he started laughing. He said, “Good Lord!” he said, “I had no idea what was happening there. Yeah.” They were—they sounded like three kids. But it was because of the giddiness of damn near buying it and getting by it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were also, in a very methodical way, however, amidst all that going step by step—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.535868741164595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a pretty lively tape."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I’ve still got a copy of those. And they’re very funny. It was a little bit—those three guys were a little bit like—you know sometime in a car accident or a near car accident when you have a close call and then you talk about it and everybody gets kind of giddy and “Whoo boy, that was close!” “Yeah, yeah, that was—.” These guys, between themselves, Pete had that giggly laugh anyway, and he started laughing. He said, “Good Lord!” he said, “I had no idea what was happening there. Yeah.” They were—they sounded like three kids. But it was because of the giddiness of damn near buying it and getting by it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were also, in a very methodical way, however, amidst all that going step by step—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Step by step."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—responding to the ground and putting stuff back on line."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.706520823516218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I’ve still got a copy of those. And they’re very funny. It was a little bit—those three guys were a little bit like—you know sometime in a car accident or a near car accident when you have a close call and then you talk about it and everybody gets kind of giddy and “Whoo boy, that was close!” “Yeah, yeah, that was—.” These guys, between themselves, Pete had that giggly laugh anyway, and he started laughing. He said, “Good Lord!” he said, “I had no idea what was happening there. Yeah.” They were—they sounded like three kids. But it was because of the giddiness of damn near buying it and getting by it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were also, in a very methodical way, however, amidst all that going step by step—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Step by step."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—responding to the ground and putting stuff back on line."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting stuff back on line. And when you listen to the air-to-ground voice tape, it was very disciplined. Click click. It—I have to say, every time I hear it and I listen—I had reason to listen to it several times. It kind of makes you proud of the way the whole thing got carried off and was responded to. It was a lot like the Apollo 11 landing. You listen to that and it will make those team members should have a lot of pride over that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things that the—, of course, the press pointed out at that time was that President [Richard M.] Nixon was in the viewing stands. And there was a suggestion that if the President had not been there, NASA might have been a little more conservative about launching into a solid overcast with lightning potential."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.118356470573573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Step by step."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—responding to the ground and putting stuff back on line."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting stuff back on line. And when you listen to the air-to-ground voice tape, it was very disciplined. Click click. It—I have to say, every time I hear it and I listen—I had reason to listen to it several times. It kind of makes you proud of the way the whole thing got carried off and was responded to. It was a lot like the Apollo 11 landing. You listen to that and it will make those team members should have a lot of pride over that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things that the—, of course, the press pointed out at that time was that President [Richard M.] Nixon was in the viewing stands. And there was a suggestion that if the President had not been there, NASA might have been a little more conservative about launching into a solid overcast with lightning potential."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I didn’t buy that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That had no bearing?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.288320853790966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was when he was waiting for the spacecraft to come out from behind the Moon after they had supposedly fired their engine to start them back to Earth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, that was on his shoulders."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.98702317087885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, that was on his shoulders."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was a single engine had to work. And, of course, we did that every mission after that, that went to the Moon. But that was one engine. One engine bell. A lot of redundancy in the piping and all that. But there was only one rocket chamber, and only one set of fuel tanks, and it had to work. And it did. Thank goodness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well the crew must’ve had an awful lot of confidence in Mission Control by that time to trust those sets of numbers that would put them into an orbit that was just 60 miles—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.763359078754277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was a single engine had to work. And, of course, we did that every mission after that, that went to the Moon. But that was one engine. One engine bell. A lot of redundancy in the piping and all that. But there was only one rocket chamber, and only one set of fuel tanks, and it had to work. And it did. Thank goodness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well the crew must’ve had an awful lot of confidence in Mission Control by that time to trust those sets of numbers that would put them into an orbit that was just 60 miles—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "60 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—above the surface instead of 60 miles into it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.514843420838087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was a single engine had to work. And, of course, we did that every mission after that, that went to the Moon. But that was one engine. One engine bell. A lot of redundancy in the piping and all that. But there was only one rocket chamber, and only one set of fuel tanks, and it had to work. And it did. Thank goodness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well the crew must’ve had an awful lot of confidence in Mission Control by that time to trust those sets of numbers that would put them into an orbit that was just 60 miles—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "60 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—above the surface instead of 60 miles into it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. In fact Al [Alan L. Bean, or Alan B. Shepard, Jr.] said, you know, every one of them said it. The impression they had when they got a look at the Moon up close, before they went into—that they were going to hit it, because they had watched this little bitty circle get bigger and bigger and bigger. And then all of a sudden they were right up against it, and they couldn’t see the horizons even. And they all had the feeling they were going to hit it. So, yeah, 60 miles is not very far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they ask you to double-check the numbers?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.23871491204232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "60 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—above the surface instead of 60 miles into it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. In fact Al [Alan L. Bean, or Alan B. Shepard, Jr.] said, you know, every one of them said it. The impression they had when they got a look at the Moon up close, before they went into—that they were going to hit it, because they had watched this little bitty circle get bigger and bigger and bigger. And then all of a sudden they were right up against it, and they couldn’t see the horizons even. And they all had the feeling they were going to hit it. So, yeah, 60 miles is not very far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they ask you to double-check the numbers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They never asked us to double check. I can recall, and I think it was Apollo 14 and I think it was [Edgar D.] Ed Mitchell that said something about, “You guys, you sure you’re right with those numbers?” or something like that. He meant it as a joke. But I think the message was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As I recall from the questions at the time, the crew didn’t really get a good visual look at the Moon until they got very close to it because of the—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.154127680047022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. In fact Al [Alan L. Bean, or Alan B. Shepard, Jr.] said, you know, every one of them said it. The impression they had when they got a look at the Moon up close, before they went into—that they were going to hit it, because they had watched this little bitty circle get bigger and bigger and bigger. And then all of a sudden they were right up against it, and they couldn’t see the horizons even. And they all had the feeling they were going to hit it. So, yeah, 60 miles is not very far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they ask you to double-check the numbers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They never asked us to double check. I can recall, and I think it was Apollo 14 and I think it was [Edgar D.] Ed Mitchell that said something about, “You guys, you sure you’re right with those numbers?” or something like that. He meant it as a joke. But I think the message was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As I recall from the questions at the time, the crew didn’t really get a good visual look at the Moon until they got very close to it because of the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—attitude of the spacecraft."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.9490307556078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They never asked us to double check. I can recall, and I think it was Apollo 14 and I think it was [Edgar D.] Ed Mitchell that said something about, “You guys, you sure you’re right with those numbers?” or something like that. He meant it as a joke. But I think the message was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As I recall from the questions at the time, the crew didn’t really get a good visual look at the Moon until they got very close to it because of the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—attitude of the spacecraft."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s exactly right. They didn’t see—they saw it fairly far out. And then once they started getting closer and they got into position with the injection burn and all that, they didn’t see much of it. And so it was a leap of faith that we had any—.\\n\\n You know, a lot of people don’t understand. I’ve explained this to folks that this problem was a little bit like a shooting a shotgun, shooting a clay pigeon moving across in front of him. That the Moon was in orbit, and our vehicle, we actually had to aim out this way and let the two collide. Rendezvous, if you will. And it just—intuitively you think there could be a lot of room for error. And it turns out that we had learned early on in Ranger and some of those Voyagers and things like that—Well, Voyager came later, but—some of the Ranger stuff they had done. We’d figured out pretty early that we could navigate to the Moon. And—but it—I’m sure some of them thought that we were going to hit it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s no longer precise, but once you were in orbit it was a little different question. Because you didn’t understand the lunar gravity that well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 19.94336750623089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—attitude of the spacecraft."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s exactly right. They didn’t see—they saw it fairly far out. And then once they started getting closer and they got into position with the injection burn and all that, they didn’t see much of it. And so it was a leap of faith that we had any—.\\n\\n You know, a lot of people don’t understand. I’ve explained this to folks that this problem was a little bit like a shooting a shotgun, shooting a clay pigeon moving across in front of him. That the Moon was in orbit, and our vehicle, we actually had to aim out this way and let the two collide. Rendezvous, if you will. And it just—intuitively you think there could be a lot of room for error. And it turns out that we had learned early on in Ranger and some of those Voyagers and things like that—Well, Voyager came later, but—some of the Ranger stuff they had done. We’d figured out pretty early that we could navigate to the Moon. And—but it—I’m sure some of them thought that we were going to hit it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s no longer precise, but once you were in orbit it was a little different question. Because you didn’t understand the lunar gravity that well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. The lunar gravity is not consistent, caused by these concentrations of masses [mascons]. And we did see some early indications that we didn’t understand the Moon’s gravitational pull as well as we thought we had. But we learned what those were later and refined it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we get completely away from Gemini, that program seemed to have a tremendous bearing on the success of Apollo. And I’d like to get your thoughts on what you and the flight control team and the astronauts, the operations team, got out of Gemini that made Apollo successful."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.155262164656131, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know if somebody planned it that way or not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A couple of the things that Gemini advanced, of course, was the rendezvous (as you mentioned) and the spacewalking, EVA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But both of those were not without their difficulties in Gemini and—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.839180182951257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A couple of the things that Gemini advanced, of course, was the rendezvous (as you mentioned) and the spacewalking, EVA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But both of those were not without their difficulties in Gemini and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—those repairs that were called for, rendezvous was almost counter to it—what needed to be done."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.710200203279175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But both of those were not without their difficulties in Gemini and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—those repairs that were called for, rendezvous was almost counter to it—what needed to be done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there—once people understood what was going on they said, “Well, of course” and [Sir Isaac] Newton—cited Newton’s Laws of Motion to explain that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.789111336976863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—those repairs that were called for, rendezvous was almost counter to it—what needed to be done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there—once people understood what was going on they said, “Well, of course” and [Sir Isaac] Newton—cited Newton’s Laws of Motion to explain that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it wasn’t apparent to the fighter pilots who were flying those spacecraft at first."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.08532263824304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it wasn’t apparent to the fighter pilots who were flying those spacecraft at first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. In fact in Gemini IV, [James A.] McDivitt was trying to—you recall, was trying to chase the booster. And he kept thrusting toward it, and—which is the worse thing he could have done at the time, because of the dynamics of the setup. That—but when we actually got to doing a real, you know, co-elliptic rendezvous, they all worked just fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it had to be set up correctly. And the training paid off finally that you can’t just start thrusting and manhandle your way into a—to a rendezvous. It’s got to be done just a very delicate maneuver.\\n\\n And I’m amazed even today when we’ve had zillions of Shuttle flights with all the rendezvous with the—and never one has been blown. It just—it works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now EVA was a bit problematic. The early missions—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 24.539247375825596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. In fact in Gemini IV, [James A.] McDivitt was trying to—you recall, was trying to chase the booster. And he kept thrusting toward it, and—which is the worse thing he could have done at the time, because of the dynamics of the setup. That—but when we actually got to doing a real, you know, co-elliptic rendezvous, they all worked just fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it had to be set up correctly. And the training paid off finally that you can’t just start thrusting and manhandle your way into a—to a rendezvous. It’s got to be done just a very delicate maneuver.\\n\\n And I’m amazed even today when we’ve had zillions of Shuttle flights with all the rendezvous with the—and never one has been blown. It just—it works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now EVA was a bit problematic. The early missions—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—the EVAs didn’t go well."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.710274862028438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it had to be set up correctly. And the training paid off finally that you can’t just start thrusting and manhandle your way into a—to a rendezvous. It’s got to be done just a very delicate maneuver.\\n\\n And I’m amazed even today when we’ve had zillions of Shuttle flights with all the rendezvous with the—and never one has been blown. It just—it works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now EVA was a bit problematic. The early missions—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—the EVAs didn’t go well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, there was a reason for that. Gemini wasn’t really designed to be an EVA vehicle. But when [Aleksei A.] Leonov did his thing (the first Russian that did the spacewalk), we kind of, I think, said, “Well, we can do one of those, too.” And Leonov didn’t do anything much except get out, and that’s essentially what [Edward H.] Ed White [II] did on Gemini IV.\\n\\n And in later missions, you know, they did do a little better work. Better hand rails; better foot restraints; actually tried some tools and that sort of thing. And so we learned a lot. I think by the time we got to Apollo, the Gemini rendezvous or the EVA work had been very helpful. But I—you know, we didn’t start Gemini with a big EVA thing in mind. It was more of a rendezvous, long-duration—longer duration kind of purpose. But we added that EVA stuff in there, and it worked okay. It was just not easy. It wasn’t designed to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well wouldn’t Apollo have been a much more difficult enterprise if you hadn’t had the rendezvous—the EVA experience in Gemini?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 25.802846175622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. As a matter of fact, I think the thing we learned is that you had to have proper foot restraint, if you don’t do any work. You had to have the proper foot restraint, and you had to have the proper handholds, and you also had to have the right kind of tools that were easily accessible and easy to use. So, yeah, I think Gemini made a foot—had we not known done the EVA work in Gemini, we would have been way behind in Apollo. And likely, you know, the first real EVA work we did was Apollo 9, where we put the lunar module and the command module in orbit—Earth orbit—and separated and then re-rendezvoused and did an EVA and all that. That went extremely well.\\n\\n I never will forget that day. [David R.] Scott in his red helmet, standing up and doing all that work out of the command module hatch. And it was a piece of cake for him. So, yeah, Gemini paid off in lots of ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, by the end of Gemini, they also discovered the training tools of the zero-g aircraft and the water tank to simulate partially at least zero gravity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. Everybody says that the zero-g airplane, you know, was worth its weight in gold many times over in terms of a successful EVA endeavor. And the water tank, you know, we had one here. We also had one in Marshall. And they made big use of those. And it’s one of the best training tools still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How are we doing on tape?\\n\\n [Voices off camera]\n\nOh, okay. Okay. We’ll keep going till we’re at the end of it. I think the next subject I’d like to spend a little time on is Apollo 13. And we may have dodged a bullet on 12 with the launch and getting through the lightning strike. Things had gone very well with the Apollo 11, Apollo 8."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And suddenly I think perhaps the accidents that we had been braced for in Mercury, Gemini, and early Apollo jumped up and almost bit us on Apollo 13."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.49408764936014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I think because of the late arrival of the simulators and the software. That ended up smoothing out some in the later program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. In fact the Shuttle mission simulator really got down to be a—I say “Shuttle.” Apollo—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—mission simulator. (I’ll get it straight in a minute.) The Apollo mission simulator really became a factory operation about the Apollo 11 timeframe. It took us a while to get that thing to where it was going to—we could turn it around fast enough. So the training elements really did—in all those guys, even the later crews—the Apollo’s 15, 16, 17—started training pretty early in the Shuttle—(why do I keep saying “Shuttle”) Apollo mission simulator. What that did is, they started—those later crews were able to start their training cycle earlier than some of those earlier guys had. And that left them more time later in their training cycle to spend on the science side. So, yeah, there was a big difference in the training cycle; and it was much heavier toward the science in those later missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think it’s incredible, if you look at the amount of weight of scientific instruments that were carried on the first mission versus—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.66009738817793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. In fact the Shuttle mission simulator really got down to be a—I say “Shuttle.” Apollo—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—mission simulator. (I’ll get it straight in a minute.) The Apollo mission simulator really became a factory operation about the Apollo 11 timeframe. It took us a while to get that thing to where it was going to—we could turn it around fast enough. So the training elements really did—in all those guys, even the later crews—the Apollo’s 15, 16, 17—started training pretty early in the Shuttle—(why do I keep saying “Shuttle”) Apollo mission simulator. What that did is, they started—those later crews were able to start their training cycle earlier than some of those earlier guys had. And that left them more time later in their training cycle to spend on the science side. So, yeah, there was a big difference in the training cycle; and it was much heavier toward the science in those later missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think it’s incredible, if you look at the amount of weight of scientific instruments that were carried on the first mission versus—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—what it wrapped up to on the later “J” missions—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.17788598686437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—mission simulator. (I’ll get it straight in a minute.) The Apollo mission simulator really became a factory operation about the Apollo 11 timeframe. It took us a while to get that thing to where it was going to—we could turn it around fast enough. So the training elements really did—in all those guys, even the later crews—the Apollo’s 15, 16, 17—started training pretty early in the Shuttle—(why do I keep saying “Shuttle”) Apollo mission simulator. What that did is, they started—those later crews were able to start their training cycle earlier than some of those earlier guys had. And that left them more time later in their training cycle to spend on the science side. So, yeah, there was a big difference in the training cycle; and it was much heavier toward the science in those later missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think it’s incredible, if you look at the amount of weight of scientific instruments that were carried on the first mission versus—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—what it wrapped up to on the later “J” missions—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the J missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—the 15, 16, 17."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 48.25498763630229, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. You had that—Not only did you have the rover and all of the stuff that went with that—all of the tools and all—but you also had—remember, you had that SIM bay (S-I-M bay) in the—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Command module."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—in the command—in the service module—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Service module."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—where they were mapping the Moon from orbit. And that was a fairly—that was a big outfit. There was a big camera and it had a lot of weight to that, too. So those later missions were probably getting very, very close to the max that we could push with the Saturn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As we began to reach the conclusion of the program in Apollo 17, it was by that time clearly going to be the last Apollo flight, had you and the flight operations team reached the feeling that we had really accomplished about all we were going to get out of Apollo and that to fly it beyond that was risk that was probably greater than the return?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 38.559588482179755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Interesting time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And NASA moved on to the Skylab Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As I recall, you were in Legislative Affairs initially, up there working with Congress."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I ran—I went up and ran that Office of Legislative Affairs at NASA Headquarters. And it was interesting because I was the first non-lawyer to do that. I was—also knew so little about Washington. I knew the Senate was on the left and the House was on the right if you were standing on the Mall side of the Capitol, but that was about the extent of my knowledge. I literally got a civics textbook called How Laws Are Made and studied it so that I could figure out how—you know—brush up on all of that business. And actually my job there in the early going was not Skylab was already well along its way—but was to get the Shuttle pinned down and make it stick.\\n\\n This was 1973, and it had received its first funding in ’71. But [Senator Walter] Mondale [D-Minnesota] had almost killed it the year before. It came within one vote of killing it in the Senate. And they wanted somebody that understood the technical side of the equation to deal with the Congress. And that’s why I went there. And I did it for 4 years, and I was ready to get out. But it was a fun 4 years. And it kind of broke me—the thing it did more than anything, is it broke me out of the pack. I was no longer just a flight director. I was somebody, then, that had been to Washington. And that led on to other things that came later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were probably a good case study of the—let’s see, what was the guy’s name? Rufus Miles. Miles’ Maxima."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 42.84398720242195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As I recall, you were in Legislative Affairs initially, up there working with Congress."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I ran—I went up and ran that Office of Legislative Affairs at NASA Headquarters. And it was interesting because I was the first non-lawyer to do that. I was—also knew so little about Washington. I knew the Senate was on the left and the House was on the right if you were standing on the Mall side of the Capitol, but that was about the extent of my knowledge. I literally got a civics textbook called How Laws Are Made and studied it so that I could figure out how—you know—brush up on all of that business. And actually my job there in the early going was not Skylab was already well along its way—but was to get the Shuttle pinned down and make it stick.\\n\\n This was 1973, and it had received its first funding in ’71. But [Senator Walter] Mondale [D-Minnesota] had almost killed it the year before. It came within one vote of killing it in the Senate. And they wanted somebody that understood the technical side of the equation to deal with the Congress. And that’s why I went there. And I did it for 4 years, and I was ready to get out. But it was a fun 4 years. And it kind of broke me—the thing it did more than anything, is it broke me out of the pack. I was no longer just a flight director. I was somebody, then, that had been to Washington. And that led on to other things that came later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were probably a good case study of the—let’s see, what was the guy’s name? Rufus Miles. Miles’ Maxima."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh-huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "“Where you stand depends on where you sit.”"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 47.60443022491327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I ran—I went up and ran that Office of Legislative Affairs at NASA Headquarters. And it was interesting because I was the first non-lawyer to do that. I was—also knew so little about Washington. I knew the Senate was on the left and the House was on the right if you were standing on the Mall side of the Capitol, but that was about the extent of my knowledge. I literally got a civics textbook called How Laws Are Made and studied it so that I could figure out how—you know—brush up on all of that business. And actually my job there in the early going was not Skylab was already well along its way—but was to get the Shuttle pinned down and make it stick.\\n\\n This was 1973, and it had received its first funding in ’71. But [Senator Walter] Mondale [D-Minnesota] had almost killed it the year before. It came within one vote of killing it in the Senate. And they wanted somebody that understood the technical side of the equation to deal with the Congress. And that’s why I went there. And I did it for 4 years, and I was ready to get out. But it was a fun 4 years. And it kind of broke me—the thing it did more than anything, is it broke me out of the pack. I was no longer just a flight director. I was somebody, then, that had been to Washington. And that led on to other things that came later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were probably a good case study of the—let’s see, what was the guy’s name? Rufus Miles. Miles’ Maxima."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh-huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "“Where you stand depends on where you sit.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I suspect your perspective of going from a field center to Headquarters into that kind of job changed quite a bit."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 44.004922472125855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh-huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "“Where you stand depends on where you sit.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I suspect your perspective of going from a field center to Headquarters into that kind of job changed quite a bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it changed my—it changed a lot. But where it really changed was my view of JSC [Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center]. You know, we, and rightly so—JSC is a very cocky kind of organization. It had always been kind of a I think our feeling was, we were—amongst all these other equal centers, we were better than they are. And that’s not a totally bad assessment. But I also figured out that there were other centers in NASA that also had some very special skills, and some extremely capable people. And it changed my view, therefore, not only of JSC, but it changed my view of the Agency. And I—it was an eye-opener, that, yeah, I had worked with [Wernher] von Braun and his troops over in Huntsville, and I’d worked with [Kurt] Debus and his guys at the Cape, but they were kind of—you know, they weren’t like [Dr. Robert R.] Gilruth. And—so it changed my perspective of the Agency.\\n\\n And then I went on to be the deputy director at—in the desert at Dryden, and then the deputy director at the Cape. And I think was really fortunate to have those experiences before I came back here to be a center director, because then I really did have—I felt like I had—and I still feel like I’ve got a good feel for the Agency and what they do at different centers. And it was just educational."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you characterize the centers and Headquarters that you had direct dealings with as far as their personality or their culture?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.037222626410582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I didn’t think anybody would remember that. It sure was. Yeah. That was an interesting time. That was probably as political as I ever had to get. I learned how to get political fairly fast in Washington, but, you know, NASA still had kind of an apolitical grounding. And it and NASA didn’t have to live in the politics like a lot of the other agencies did. It was in it, but not like—nearly like (the U.S. Department of) Labor or HUD (U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development) or some one of those outfits. But when I worked the transition team from Carter to Reagan, that was the first time I really—I felt caught in a vise a couple of times. Although it worked well, because Hans Mark was coming in and Jim Beggs, I didn’t know at the time, but he was really liked—eventually. It was an interesting time. And I figured—and I also considered it a great honor to be a part of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What changes, if any, did it make in the Agency? Could you note any fundamental shift in policy or—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much in—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—direction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what I think what I noticed first: [NASA Administrator Robert A.] Bob Frosch and then after Bill [William R. Graham, Associate Administrator] (the guy that succeeded?—we’ll get that for the record)—Bill—a very short time before we got Beggs in. Anyway, he was a guy that succeeded Bob Frosch. Well—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well Alan Lovelace filled the gap. And then—after Frosch resigned."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.708025140456204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much in—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—direction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what I think what I noticed first: [NASA Administrator Robert A.] Bob Frosch and then after Bill [William R. Graham, Associate Administrator] (the guy that succeeded?—we’ll get that for the record)—Bill—a very short time before we got Beggs in. Anyway, he was a guy that succeeded Bob Frosch. Well—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well Alan Lovelace filled the gap. And then—after Frosch resigned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well now this was even—Okay. This was before Lovelace. Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. It’s not coming to me either."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.34225015606245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what I think what I noticed first: [NASA Administrator Robert A.] Bob Frosch and then after Bill [William R. Graham, Associate Administrator] (the guy that succeeded?—we’ll get that for the record)—Bill—a very short time before we got Beggs in. Anyway, he was a guy that succeeded Bob Frosch. Well—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well Alan Lovelace filled the gap. And then—after Frosch resigned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well now this was even—Okay. This was before Lovelace. Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. It’s not coming to me either."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Frosch and then later this Bill [Graham] and Lovelace were all three different [people]. And Frosch, you know,—Frosch was a very bright guy. Very brilliant sort of guy. Not a very much of a hands-on kind of guy. Lovelace was exactly the opposite in that respect. He was very much a hands-on—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was the deputy administrator?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.282053386463281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—we wished it was—but we thought it was okay. And so I really think, you know, they had trouble making that seal at the Cape. They went through quite a lot of detail. How many times they had to make it and unmake it. And the design wasn’t real easy to—you could make a mistake with it. You had to be careful. And then there was no way to really test it once you got the design—and then, you know, they added the second O ring and a pressure port, the easy—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—solution to make sure that you had a seal. And I think they—that it was a bad joint. And I just have the feel—I have the feeling that we could’ve launched it in July and it would have still failed. So I think the temperature thing was probably overblown a bit. But that—again, that’s my personal opinion and it’s not based on any great fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just think it was a bad situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well the solid rocket motor, in retrospect, is one of those things that a lot of people said they wish we had never had to add to the Shuttle. And that was one of those compromises that came about—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.868948207181424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—solution to make sure that you had a seal. And I think they—that it was a bad joint. And I just have the feel—I have the feeling that we could’ve launched it in July and it would have still failed. So I think the temperature thing was probably overblown a bit. But that—again, that’s my personal opinion and it’s not based on any great fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just think it was a bad situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well the solid rocket motor, in retrospect, is one of those things that a lot of people said they wish we had never had to add to the Shuttle. And that was one of those compromises that came about—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—while you were in Washington—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.521053563534915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just think it was a bad situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well the solid rocket motor, in retrospect, is one of those things that a lot of people said they wish we had never had to add to the Shuttle. And that was one of those compromises that came about—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—while you were in Washington—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—to keep cost down or cut cost. And I’m wondering how much of a factor that was, and how much did we really understand those solids until—prior to the accident?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.0506834117715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—to keep cost down or cut cost. And I’m wondering how much of a factor that was, and how much did we really understand those solids until—prior to the accident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know interestingly enough, though, the solids had had—have always had a good safety—I’m just talking about solid rockets in general—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—have had an excellent safety record. They’ve been very reliable. And when we went to the solids, I didn’t think that was all such a bad deal. I thought that was probably okay. I didn’t know a lot about them because we had never flown anything with them on there. And by that time, I’m up in Washington worrying about things other than propellants. But I remember thinking that, “Well, that sounds like a—probably a pretty good tradeoff.” And—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think, in retrospect, that that—the sense of security or confidence that people had in the solids was due to the fact that they were looking at them in a—from the standpoint of an unmanned system as opposed to a manned system?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.834092679746111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know interestingly enough, though, the solids had had—have always had a good safety—I’m just talking about solid rockets in general—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—have had an excellent safety record. They’ve been very reliable. And when we went to the solids, I didn’t think that was all such a bad deal. I thought that was probably okay. I didn’t know a lot about them because we had never flown anything with them on there. And by that time, I’m up in Washington worrying about things other than propellants. But I remember thinking that, “Well, that sounds like a—probably a pretty good tradeoff.” And—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think, in retrospect, that that—the sense of security or confidence that people had in the solids was due to the fact that they were looking at them in a—from the standpoint of an unmanned system as opposed to a manned system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. There may’ve been some of that. There’s also, I think, it’s a little bit analogous, I think, to the 100% oxygen environment in a cabin. You get lulled by success into thinking that something is good because it’s been okay in the past. And we might’ve taken our eye off the ball a little bit. However, I think at the time that joint design and the guys that were assembling it were probably the best we could do. It just wasn’t good enough. And it was that simple. That’s why I think we would’ve lost it even on a hot day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. [Robert L.] Bob Crippen made the observation, I think, before the Rogers Commission that from his perspective one of the things that had happened leading up to that accident was that NASA had quit asking the question “Prove to me that this vehicle is safe to fly” and it started asking it, “Prove to me that it is not safe.”"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.704547421940124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—have had an excellent safety record. They’ve been very reliable. And when we went to the solids, I didn’t think that was all such a bad deal. I thought that was probably okay. I didn’t know a lot about them because we had never flown anything with them on there. And by that time, I’m up in Washington worrying about things other than propellants. But I remember thinking that, “Well, that sounds like a—probably a pretty good tradeoff.” And—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think, in retrospect, that that—the sense of security or confidence that people had in the solids was due to the fact that they were looking at them in a—from the standpoint of an unmanned system as opposed to a manned system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. There may’ve been some of that. There’s also, I think, it’s a little bit analogous, I think, to the 100% oxygen environment in a cabin. You get lulled by success into thinking that something is good because it’s been okay in the past. And we might’ve taken our eye off the ball a little bit. However, I think at the time that joint design and the guys that were assembling it were probably the best we could do. It just wasn’t good enough. And it was that simple. That’s why I think we would’ve lost it even on a hot day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. [Robert L.] Bob Crippen made the observation, I think, before the Rogers Commission that from his perspective one of the things that had happened leading up to that accident was that NASA had quit asking the question “Prove to me that this vehicle is safe to fly” and it started asking it, “Prove to me that it is not safe.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is not. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you agree with that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.178453607333484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is not. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you agree with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I’d—you know, I was not involved in that decision, particularly on that flight. But—to go. But I can see how I think that could happen. We were trying to make the Shuttle more operational. We were trying to make it more of a “check it out and go” without this exhaustive set of things that we had done ever since Mercury. And I think we learned. It—and we weren’t doing that to cut corners. We were trying to do it to make the system more like a real operational system. And I think we learned out of that process that you can’t—with these kind of systems, with these kind of energies, stored energy involved and releasing it so fast, that you really can’t be that kind.\\n\\n Now, if we can ever get to a horizontal takeoff and landing and some kind of engine that burns liquids all the time, you know, maybe we can get to a more operational kind of spaceflight. But with the technology that we’ve got in the Shuttle—which is, you know, it’s early ’70s stuff primarily with the boosters—we’re—we can’t make it any more operational than it is probably today. Which is not real operational."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were do you suspect the technology will go in the next 20 to 30 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty to 30 years, I think we’re going to see some sort of X-33/34 kind of vehicle. Horizontal takeoff, landing. Twenty or 30 years may be a little short. It may take longer to get there than what I’m thinking for an operation—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that would say the Shuttle really is likely to be the primary—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.753837341481649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I’d—you know, I was not involved in that decision, particularly on that flight. But—to go. But I can see how I think that could happen. We were trying to make the Shuttle more operational. We were trying to make it more of a “check it out and go” without this exhaustive set of things that we had done ever since Mercury. And I think we learned. It—and we weren’t doing that to cut corners. We were trying to do it to make the system more like a real operational system. And I think we learned out of that process that you can’t—with these kind of systems, with these kind of energies, stored energy involved and releasing it so fast, that you really can’t be that kind.\\n\\n Now, if we can ever get to a horizontal takeoff and landing and some kind of engine that burns liquids all the time, you know, maybe we can get to a more operational kind of spaceflight. But with the technology that we’ve got in the Shuttle—which is, you know, it’s early ’70s stuff primarily with the boosters—we’re—we can’t make it any more operational than it is probably today. Which is not real operational."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were do you suspect the technology will go in the next 20 to 30 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty to 30 years, I think we’re going to see some sort of X-33/34 kind of vehicle. Horizontal takeoff, landing. Twenty or 30 years may be a little short. It may take longer to get there than what I’m thinking for an operation—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that would say the Shuttle really is likely to be the primary—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For another 20 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—manned vehicle for another 20 years?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.3931526016462765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty to 30 years, I think we’re going to see some sort of X-33/34 kind of vehicle. Horizontal takeoff, landing. Twenty or 30 years may be a little short. It may take longer to get there than what I’m thinking for an operation—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that would say the Shuttle really is likely to be the primary—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For another 20 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—manned vehicle for another 20 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you think history’s going to judge the Shuttle as a—?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.103502890718085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For another 20 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—manned vehicle for another 20 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you think history’s going to judge the Shuttle as a—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s going to judge it extremely well. It’s—If I’m not mistaken, I think it has just passed recently the record for any launch system in terms of success rate. I may be wrong on that but I—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I think you’re right."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.7816698785756495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you think history’s going to judge the Shuttle as a—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s going to judge it extremely well. It’s—If I’m not mistaken, I think it has just passed recently the record for any launch system in terms of success rate. I may be wrong on that but I—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I think you’re right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—I think read somewhere that it had—it passed the Delta and it passed something else. And I think now it is the most successful of any vehicle ever—that’s ever been launched. It’s got the most—it’s got the highest success rate. And I don’t know how you can get any better than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think the criticism that will probably continue to be leveled against it is that it didn’t meet its promise. NASA at one point was saying, “It will fly 60 times a year and reduce the cost by an order of magnitude.” And we just didn’t do that."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0203778060900004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. I think it probably did. And in the thing that is kind of the—at the footnote to that is, is that there wasn’t anybody else in the country that could’ve done it. Those were the people that had the skill to do it. And so, I don’t really fault—I think they thought they could change this thing an order of magnitude. And what they did is changed it, you know, about 10 to 20 or maybe even 50%. But they couldn’t get the order of magnitude that they thought they could. And, I mean, I got eaten up with the same story. I heck, I was up there telling people on the [Capitol] Hill, “Oh yeah, we can fly the—” you know, “I guess we can. So let’s do it.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, there were also political and legislative tradeoffs that were made that changed the ability to do that. And I’m not sure those ever got factored in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That’s right. And—but if—and I wasn’t—in the—as I said earlier, right in the middle of that fray in Washington. I don’t think anybody was trying to intentionally mislead anybody. We really thought we could do it. And it turned out—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the reporters that you’ll remember well, Bill Hines, wrote an article at about that time pointing out that the numbers that NASA was using were “bogus,” as he put it. He compared it to the supersonic transport. He said, “The supersonic transport looks great. But only if you build enough of them and fly enough flights did it get—you get the cost down.” And he predicted the same thing would happen with the Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And unfortunately, I think he was right."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3559753401000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That’s right. And—but if—and I wasn’t—in the—as I said earlier, right in the middle of that fray in Washington. I don’t think anybody was trying to intentionally mislead anybody. We really thought we could do it. And it turned out—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the reporters that you’ll remember well, Bill Hines, wrote an article at about that time pointing out that the numbers that NASA was using were “bogus,” as he put it. He compared it to the supersonic transport. He said, “The supersonic transport looks great. But only if you build enough of them and fly enough flights did it get—you get the cost down.” And he predicted the same thing would happen with the Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And unfortunately, I think he was right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve got one other thought along those lines: Gilruth and Kraft really in a way had a kind of a paradoxical concept of returning to the Moon, as I remember it. Gilruth said that “People will never realize how difficult it was to do it the first time until they try to do it again.”"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.7288614890000007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And unfortunately, I think he was right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve got one other thought along those lines: Gilruth and Kraft really in a way had a kind of a paradoxical concept of returning to the Moon, as I remember it. Gilruth said that “People will never realize how difficult it was to do it the first time until they try to do it again.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kraft has said repeatedly that “We won’t do it again until it’s easy.” And in a way, you know, I wonder if both of those could be right."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.1343969000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kraft has said repeatedly that “We won’t do it again until it’s easy.” And in a way, you know, I wonder if both of those could be right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They—I—that was my—going to be my reaction. I think, you know, in a way they’re both right. I can see the point. But, it—you stop and think about what it takes to get to the Moon, and it is kind of mind-boggling. It—how much energy you have to add. If you take any—of anything of any size out there it—there’s a lot of energy that has to be added in a fairly short period of time, which is always dangerous. And then so many things can go wrong. And you’re out there 250,000 miles from Earth, and what you’ve got is all you’ve got with you at the time.\\n\\n And—on the other hand, I do think there are some—the technology today would probably make it no harder to do than what we did in Apollo. And it would probably make it easier. I think we can make some things lighter. We can make some things a little more capable of fault-tolerance and that sort of thing. So, I think we’re going—we will go back to the Moon. And—when those curves get in the right perspective again. But it’s—I don’t see what’s going to drive us to do it right now. That’s the thing that’s—I think, there’s nothing to make it happen. There’s nothing to push it.\\n\\n And maybe we shouldn’t go back. Maybe we ought to go on to Mars. Now you talk about a tough mission. I mean that’s a really tough one. But if we would undertake that one and with the resolve to get it done, I’m sure we could do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier on the psychological impact of making a fairly short burn in Earth orbit that commits you to going to the Moon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that about a 4-minute burn?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2604410000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They—I—that was my—going to be my reaction. I think, you know, in a way they’re both right. I can see the point. But, it—you stop and think about what it takes to get to the Moon, and it is kind of mind-boggling. It—how much energy you have to add. If you take any—of anything of any size out there it—there’s a lot of energy that has to be added in a fairly short period of time, which is always dangerous. And then so many things can go wrong. And you’re out there 250,000 miles from Earth, and what you’ve got is all you’ve got with you at the time.\\n\\n And—on the other hand, I do think there are some—the technology today would probably make it no harder to do than what we did in Apollo. And it would probably make it easier. I think we can make some things lighter. We can make some things a little more capable of fault-tolerance and that sort of thing. So, I think we’re going—we will go back to the Moon. And—when those curves get in the right perspective again. But it’s—I don’t see what’s going to drive us to do it right now. That’s the thing that’s—I think, there’s nothing to make it happen. There’s nothing to push it.\\n\\n And maybe we shouldn’t go back. Maybe we ought to go on to Mars. Now you talk about a tough mission. I mean that’s a really tough one. But if we would undertake that one and with the resolve to get it done, I’m sure we could do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier on the psychological impact of making a fairly short burn in Earth orbit that commits you to going to the Moon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that about a 4-minute burn?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. As I recall, I think it was about 4 minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much longer of a burn would you have to have to commit you to a 2-year trip to Mars? Not much?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The trip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, the last numbers I’ve seen, they’ve got that down to about a 10-month transit time each direction, with certain assumptions. And, so who knows? Maybe that—maybe that’s what we’ll do next."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be a psychological—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, the last numbers I’ve seen, they’ve got that down to about a 10-month transit time each direction, with certain assumptions. And, so who knows? Maybe that—maybe that’s what we’ll do next."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be a psychological—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—effect to see the Earth diminish to a point of light."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—effect to see the Earth diminish to a point of light."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would take 20 minutes just to get a conversation out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I think that that’s enough."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00194:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would take 20 minutes just to get a conversation out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I think that that’s enough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this is excellent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I appreciate your inviting me to be a part of this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we may want to get you back. We’ll look over the transcripts and think of what we should have asked and didn’t."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 87.38064775978205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I live here and I also still live in Virginia, so I go back and forth. My family's still back in Virginia. Just my wife. The kids are all grown."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's quite a commute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's not bad…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a great overview. Thank you. Let's jump back and go over some things in a little more detail, if you don't mind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were working at McDonnell, and you mentioned that you were working on their proposal [for Apollo]. What can you tell us about that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 98.5682788595977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's been exciting and it's been a real learning process. A lot of different people. I chose to stay in the systems engineering, systems integration, rather than get into a discipline like structures or thermal or environmental control. In my view, being in systems integration, you get a broader view of what's going on and what has to happen and how things play together.\\n\\n And it just kind of happened, in those days, in '63, I remember the processing line for new applicants, you almost had to stand in line because every Monday they were probably bringing in probably twenty, fifty people from the outside. So I remember standing in line, waiting to get processed into the human resources, which back then we were not at the Johnson Space Center, we were at these thirteen buildings scattered around the Gulfgate area. The Apollo office was right across from the Gulfgate, in a couple of those buildings, I forget what they call them, but [we] basically were in one building. Support contractor back then was General Electric, and they were in the building next to us. But NASA itself, JSC, Manned Spacecraft Center itself was scattered, I think, in eleven or thirteen buildings. That was in '63. I can't remember, was it February of '64 or something, we moved down to the Clear Lake area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was like January or February of '64, if I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you did come to move down there and to make the choice, how was it moving down to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was in St. Louis area. When I moved, it was snowing. I drove down from St. Louis to Houston. You always remember how flat the country is. A joke then used to be, the highest point in Houston was the freeway overpass. It probably still is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It still is. [Laughter]"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 102.85364317733077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was like January or February of '64, if I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you did come to move down there and to make the choice, how was it moving down to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was in St. Louis area. When I moved, it was snowing. I drove down from St. Louis to Houston. You always remember how flat the country is. A joke then used to be, the highest point in Houston was the freeway overpass. It probably still is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It still is. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still is the joke. But the people in the community were really friendly. It was easy to go in and buy a house, to get a loan. I remember my first house was $20,000, right there by the Hobby Airport. Nothing down. \"Just move in and start paying us low-interest rate.\" So, people in the community, I thought, were really friendly, bringing people in. I stayed up in the Hobby Airport area even after [NASA] moved down there. Finally I moved down to a little town called Dickinson in '75, just south of Clear Lake. But it was good. I mean, everybody was excited about the space program coming to Houston back then.\\n\\n Back then they had private clubs. If you wanted to get a mixed drink, you had to either bring your own bottle into a tavern or you'd belong to a club. A lot of these clubs would pass out free passes to NASA employees, that type of thing. It was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. When you did move down, you then worked in the Apollo Spacecraft Program Office. What were your responsibilities there, your duties?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 66.98557564836979, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it worked, and I think some highly competition between the MOD people, the E&D [Engineering and Development] people, and program office people, I used the word, were arbitrators in some cases, and sometimes emotions got high and people got excited, but it worked. So I think that was what was key. That's also the room, like if George Low wasn't sitting out in the control room, he'd be sitting back there as a place to listen to the com going on between the air and ground, and working any issues that were out there. Of course, when we had Apollo 13, it was hectic back in all the rooms. Apollo 12 had the lightening strike. Joe [Joseph W. Cuzzupoli] probably talked about that. That was an exciting time, the strike during ascent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you called upon with the data book for—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What we were doing, I worked a shift that varies each mission, kind of rotated first, second, or third shift, primarily dealing with questions and answers going back, trying to filter them out, trying to make sure they were getting worked. That was probably the right place to be, because back in your office over there, you probably weren't paying attention to work anyhow. You wanted to know what was going on in the mission. But in Apollo, we had another mission coming every—from July of '69 to, I guess we quit flying in '71, I think, or something, six missions in sixteen months, something like that, so it was pretty ambitious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very ambitious schedule."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of people back there didn't really take vacations, that I can remember. People were pretty devoted to keeping things going, doing their job. It was good times. Good times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember where you were and what you were doing when Apollo 11 landed on the moon?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 80.05727122141408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, here again, I think everybody jumped in and wanted to solve, wanted to get the crew back. Lots of stories about who did what. I at that time was in this backup room over there and was working issues and trying to make sure we had the right people doing the right thing. So I think the people in the Mission Evaluation Room, led by Don Arabian, in terms of fixes and the E&D team, of how you route the plumbing and get the cooling and trying to stabilize the vehicle, did an outstanding job. The Gene [Eugene F.] Kranzes, the Glynn Lunneys in mission operation, their team, just unbelievable. Everybody just jumped in and wanted the right thing to happen, so it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody just pulled together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People probably worked twenty hours a day back then, even they overlapped and had shifts. And…it was orchestrated by the flight directors. I can't remember the third flight director, but Gene Kranz was, I think, the lead, and Lunney was also in there as a lead. I can't remember if the third one was Pete [M. P.] Frank [III] or—I just can't remember. Two guys. Of course, I went to work for Lunney a few years after that. He was head of the Shuttle Program Office after the first flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Luckily it all worked out and they got back safely, thanks to everyone's hard work. As the Apollo Program came to a close, you then moved into working on the Space Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any thoughts at that time, with the transition, seeing the end of the era of landing on the moon, and then moving into the new with the Space Shuttle, any thoughts that really struck you at the time?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.02537237448693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then he'd expect minutes on Monday morning when he came to work, so we'd work on that over the weekend to get what had happened.\\n\\n Anyhow, I got into this, like I said earlier, I learned a lot from George Low of how he ran a program office, so when I got into it—and it wasn't just me. The other guys had been in George Low's ways of doing business, so it kind of built up. Mission operations had their way of doing business. They had their staff meetings and things at the program office, and we'd have ours. It pretty much came together.\\n\\n On Friday, in this configuration control board, we had reps from every division or every office of JSC, plus the Astronaut Office, plus Marshall, plus Kennedy, to deal with the system. We wouldn't get into the nitty-gritty of what the orbiter was doing, but we'd deal with the systems-level interface problems. So it kept you busy.\\n\\n I was talking to my wife, the sixteen years—well, actually thirty-one years I worked at NASA, I only took eleven sick days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when I left, I had over a year of annual leave, because I became Senior Executive Service, and then you could carry over your leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just didn't have time to do it. And when I was a GS-14 or 15, I just lost it, because you lost it then. Now they've changed the rules. I think you can only accumulate something like 700 hours if you're Senior Executive Service. But you're just engrossed with keeping busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot to do. A lot to do."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 45.58374708276325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when I left, I had over a year of annual leave, because I became Senior Executive Service, and then you could carry over your leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just didn't have time to do it. And when I was a GS-14 or 15, I just lost it, because you lost it then. Now they've changed the rules. I think you can only accumulate something like 700 hours if you're Senior Executive Service. But you're just engrossed with keeping busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot to do. A lot to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were, as you've mentioned, some parts that weren't quite as fun. You talked about ice and you talked about\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n . After\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , you worked on the Shuttle Management Structure Team to review and revamp. What can you tell us about what you did with that?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.57178339089048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He would be a good person to talk to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was key to making this whole thing work, both in his team he worked for management and then his activity at Kennedy. Of course, then if I recall what happened, Bill Lenoir came back, and Arnie Aldrich and myself were working for Lenoir. I was director of—no, this is after that. This is getting way ahead. Crippen eventually went to Headquarters to take Arnie Aldrich's job, and then he went back to become Kennedy Center director, and he moved from Houston to Kennedy, Kennedy to Headquarters, Headquarters back to the Cape, in a different role as Center director, and then he left. He's now CEO, or president, of Thiokol, the people who build the solid rocket motors for Shuttle in Odgen, Utah. Got a lot of history of what went on back there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In our research, we found that Arnie Aldrich gave you great praise for your role in bringing the Shuttle back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you talked to Arnie?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We haven't talked to him yet."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 45.97436883232811, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you talked to Jay Honeycutt?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honeycutt, back then, was my deputy, and then he moved down to the Cape when [McCartney was] Center director. I can't remember exactly, but he moved down to the Cape. Now he's heading up Lockheed [Martin] in Houston. We had some good times. We spent a lot of time on the road. I think the three years after the accident, the highest one, I averaged 100 nights a year away from home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly at Headquarters or Kennedy or Marshall, mainly that's where I spent time, which was a lot, but, here again, it was worth it. It's something you had to do to make things work.\\n\\n Arnie and I talk to each other. We're friends. Our wives are friends. He'd be a great guy to talk to. He's in Virginia. He's at Lockheed-Martin in Bethesda, but he lives in Virginia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Our list of people that we'd like to talk to keeps growing."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 63.0649778221236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He'd be a key person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was one of the key guys that went back after the accident to run the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lots of hours together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure lots of stories to share, too. As the Shuttle Program did come back to flight status, came back on line, along in this time frame the National Space Transportation System Office moved from JSC up to Washington. Was this part of the changes that you—"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 61.18330869124844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was one of the key guys that went back after the accident to run the Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lots of hours together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure lots of stories to share, too. As the Shuttle Program did come back to flight status, came back on line, along in this time frame the National Space Transportation System Office moved from JSC up to Washington. Was this part of the changes that you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, recommended changes that came out of Bob Crippen's team. I forget the Rogers Commission, but they wanted to have a stronger influence out of NASA Headquarters. When the first Shuttle launch went off, John [F.] Yardley was head of the Office of Space Flight. John Yardley is probably the most technically capable person I've ever met in terms of knowing what was going on technically and making decisions that were technical as well as monetary. He was key strength at NASA Headquarters, and he, I guess, was ill right around the time of the first flight. He made it through the first flight, but shortly thereafter he retired. John Yardley was the lead guy at McDonnell Aircraft for Mercury and Gemini. He ran the Mercury and Gemini Programs for McDonnell, and in '76 they talked him into coming to NASA to run the Office of Space Flight, and he was key to getting the Shuttle flying. But he had some health problems, and after the first flight he retired.\\n\\n [After Yardley left] I think the strength of Headquarters was not as great, and I think what the Rogers Commission saw is that we should…[go back to a stronger headquarters]. So Admiral Truly brought up Arnie Aldrich to run it, and we set up this organization to run it the way we had recommended. So we got a lot of trips back and forth to Washington, but a lot of good communications going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over the Shuttle Program, it's now about to enter the end of the 1900s."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 66.87034299027604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lots of hours together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure lots of stories to share, too. As the Shuttle Program did come back to flight status, came back on line, along in this time frame the National Space Transportation System Office moved from JSC up to Washington. Was this part of the changes that you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, recommended changes that came out of Bob Crippen's team. I forget the Rogers Commission, but they wanted to have a stronger influence out of NASA Headquarters. When the first Shuttle launch went off, John [F.] Yardley was head of the Office of Space Flight. John Yardley is probably the most technically capable person I've ever met in terms of knowing what was going on technically and making decisions that were technical as well as monetary. He was key strength at NASA Headquarters, and he, I guess, was ill right around the time of the first flight. He made it through the first flight, but shortly thereafter he retired. John Yardley was the lead guy at McDonnell Aircraft for Mercury and Gemini. He ran the Mercury and Gemini Programs for McDonnell, and in '76 they talked him into coming to NASA to run the Office of Space Flight, and he was key to getting the Shuttle flying. But he had some health problems, and after the first flight he retired.\\n\\n [After Yardley left] I think the strength of Headquarters was not as great, and I think what the Rogers Commission saw is that we should…[go back to a stronger headquarters]. So Admiral Truly brought up Arnie Aldrich to run it, and we set up this organization to run it the way we had recommended. So we got a lot of trips back and forth to Washington, but a lot of good communications going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over the Shuttle Program, it's now about to enter the end of the 1900s."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thirty years. The technology on the Shuttle still going strong, but it is older. From all your experience working with it, do you foresee it maintaining and continuing for many more years?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 32.493669043601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took off for about nine months, almost a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Took some of that vacation time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just took off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you did go back to work then, you mentioned that you worked with Moscow and with aerospace operations. Did this involve anything along the lines of the Space Station, or was this different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Primarily ANSER was run by John Fabian, ex-astronaut who actually flew with Dan [Daniel C.] Brandenstein. ANSER is primarily a military support contractor working for the Pentagon. John Fabian had his vision of setting up an office in Moscow, trying to work with the Russians and promote their activity. When I first went to ANSER, that was not what I was going over there for; I was going over there to help them work on bidding on a NASA contract, on something else.\\n\\n As we got into it, I got involved in the Russian operation, and so we got about a dozen people. Three or four of them rotated through Moscow. But most of our support was related to the science side, interfacing with the Russian science community and NASA Headquarters, not really into the Space Station activity or into the Shuttle activity or into the Mir. It was primarily working the science interface, and then we did some other things for some other commercial companies. But small group, eight, ten people. It was the only part of that company that did any commercial work. All the rest of their work was tied to the government, and most of mine, other than NASA, was tied to doing work for commercial companies.\\n\\n So I came out here to do some work for this commercial company, and I knew most of the old-timers out here, and after a couple of trips I decided I might as well come out here and work, because it's more exciting and something I wanted to do, getting back closer to what I call closer to the hardware. The previous company was more of a paper product company as opposed to building something, not for profit, analysis and research. It was interesting, I enjoyed it, but this is a lot more interesting, a lot more fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about what you do here."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.337761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But being there four years, five years, was another good experience. In fact, I still live there. My wife lives there. I live here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you think back to when you began in aviation and in aerospace, would you ever have imagined where it would lead you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We were a family of five boys, one girl, and my oldest brother was an engineer, went to Washington University in St. Louis. I grew up in St. Louis. He went to Washington U. in St. Louis, became an electrical engineer. He was the oldest. I was the second youngest. The other two older brothers went off and did things, and I was the only one who really followed him. My older brother and I were probably pretty close together, so I went to engineering school, went to the same school. He worked at McDonnell, I went to work at McDonnell. I had a very influential uncle who worked at McDonnell. So that's how I got involved… And having my brother and my uncle there helped me get a job. So as you work that three or four months, you kind of get your engineering thoughts going down the—really, then it was in the aircraft line. But then you start going down—you're a mechanical engineer, you could do a lot of things, go build bridges, build roads, but when you get into that aircraft side, you kind of just keep thinking that way. That's how I got into it. I never had any idea that's where it would lead to. Like somebody says, \"I want to be an astronaut and that's what I'm going to go work on.\" I just went along with the flow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seemed to work out pretty well for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if a lot of people do that or not, but that's just the way most of the people you talk to, I think, never imagined they'd wind up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Keeps life interesting."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.5281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if a lot of people do that or not, but that's just the way most of the people you talk to, I think, never imagined they'd wind up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Keeps life interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Keeps you busy. I think the biggest thing is being happy with what you're doing. If you're not, you might as well try something else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You may not be able to afford it if you've got house payments and kids and things like that, but that's what you do. When I went to work for NASA, I thought I'd be there three or four years and I'd wind back up with a contractor. But when you got down there and got working on the Apollo Program and got into the day-to-day routine of making this thing work, it really gets you excited, so I spent thirty-one years there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully those were happy."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00323:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.809, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Keeps you busy. I think the biggest thing is being happy with what you're doing. If you're not, you might as well try something else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You may not be able to afford it if you've got house payments and kids and things like that, but that's what you do. When I went to work for NASA, I thought I'd be there three or four years and I'd wind back up with a contractor. But when you got down there and got working on the Apollo Program and got into the day-to-day routine of making this thing work, it really gets you excited, so I spent thirty-one years there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully those were happy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any questions? [Addressing Summer Bergen.]\n\nI have a couple. You mentioned briefly about 1993, after Clinton had come into office, he initiated the redesign procedure. I was wondering if you could go a little bit more in depth about the impact that had on you, what you thought about the time, and how that affected the people you worked with."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00721:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 32.993348050400186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. [Driving that transporter with the SPMT’s is work for a trained specialist from Sarens Rigging.] I have been on the route with them and looked at what they have to do, and there’s a lot of work. There’s a lot of light poles and traffic lights. The way their traffic engineers have described it, they’re going to have an army of people out in front of the vehicle that are going to be dropping these light poles and traffic lights down, because they’re mechanically attached. Then as the orbiter goes by, they’re going to have another army behind them bringing them back up. They’re going to have to cut down some trees along the route. They’ve identified every tree that has to be trimmed or cut down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and manage the crowds, because I’m guessing tons of people are going to come out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’s going to be crazy. L.A. [Los Angeles] had two things recently on the news that impacted traffic and large crowds. One was Mulholland Bridge over the 405 up by UCLA [University of California Los Angeles]. They were doing a partial demolition of it, and they had to close the 405 freeway for a weekend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I remember hearing about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The news was all, “Don’t go near there.” Then just a few weeks ago they had this big rock that they were moving from Riverside [California] to the La Brea Tar Pits area. They had multiple nights where they would go three or four miles and stop. They wouldn’t do any moving during the day. It was all in the dark of the night, whereas this move they’re going to start at two o’clock in the morning at LAX. They said it’s going to be two to three hours to get off the property of LAX and then from there it’ll be another 13, 14 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They’re doing this on the weekends I’m guessing, not on a Monday morning?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00721:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 34.43705338933354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’s going to be crazy. L.A. [Los Angeles] had two things recently on the news that impacted traffic and large crowds. One was Mulholland Bridge over the 405 up by UCLA [University of California Los Angeles]. They were doing a partial demolition of it, and they had to close the 405 freeway for a weekend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I remember hearing about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The news was all, “Don’t go near there.” Then just a few weeks ago they had this big rock that they were moving from Riverside [California] to the La Brea Tar Pits area. They had multiple nights where they would go three or four miles and stop. They wouldn’t do any moving during the day. It was all in the dark of the night, whereas this move they’re going to start at two o’clock in the morning at LAX. They said it’s going to be two to three hours to get off the property of LAX and then from there it’ll be another 13, 14 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They’re doing this on the weekends I’m guessing, not on a Monday morning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s the plan. The vehicle is supposed to get out there in late September. The move date hasn’t been released yet, but it’ll be probably 7 to 10 days after the vehicle arrives at LAX."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you’ll be helping them?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00721:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.577152530000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven’t seen any detailed drawings [because we haven’t received the direction to give them support]. The drawing I’ve seen, it looks like columns coming out of the concrete floor that go right into the aft attach and up to the yoke, so you’ve got three columns coming up and the orbiter sitting on top. We’ll see. Obviously they don’t have earthquakes here, but that display configuration would be impossible in southern California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How are they displaying Enterprise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just parking it on its landing gear on the carrier deck, and then they’re going to inflate a structure around it, one of those high-pressurized structures. I’ve seen some graphics on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Discovery is just going to look just like Enterprise, they’re just wheeling her into the hangar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s the easiest one out of all of them, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rebecca, do you have any questions for Bill?\\n\\n WRIGHT: You were talking about California, can you give more details on the trees? Apparently that’s a quite a bit of construction, protecting the trees, and how they determined the trees they’re going to [remove]."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00721:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.7523917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just parking it on its landing gear on the carrier deck, and then they’re going to inflate a structure around it, one of those high-pressurized structures. I’ve seen some graphics on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Discovery is just going to look just like Enterprise, they’re just wheeling her into the hangar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s the easiest one out of all of them, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rebecca, do you have any questions for Bill?\\n\\n WRIGHT: You were talking about California, can you give more details on the trees? Apparently that’s a quite a bit of construction, protecting the trees, and how they determined the trees they’re going to [remove]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have a subcontractor out there that they hired to identify all the trees on the route and then categorize those trees in certain categories that would either allow them to cut them down, or trim them, or not to be touched at all and would require the vehicle to have to be maneuvered around that tree. That’s a big task, and they’re still hoping that the state of California won’t require an environmental impact report on these trees. If they require that, I don’t know if they’re going to meet September/October [deadlines].\\n\\n WRIGHT: This morning out at the mate-de-mate, what was your role?\n\nI was there representing the Boeing Company with my Ground Support Equipment Engineer, Norm Ring. We were there just in case some of our GSE didn’t work and if there were some mechanical issues.\\n\\n The rest of our team, those 18 folks, most of them are here in the Florida region, and they were all on call. If there were certain subsystem areas that were having problems during this mate, then we were to call them in and start spinning up the engineering support for them. Even when we’re flying the vehicles we had a lot of folks on call. But there were no issues, really. As you know, what was completed today was scheduled for yesterday. The winds didn’t allow it to happen yesterday, but they’re back on schedule."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, good. And weather looks good to deliver Discovery to go out on Tuesday?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00721:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.058213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s the easiest one out of all of them, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rebecca, do you have any questions for Bill?\\n\\n WRIGHT: You were talking about California, can you give more details on the trees? Apparently that’s a quite a bit of construction, protecting the trees, and how they determined the trees they’re going to [remove]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have a subcontractor out there that they hired to identify all the trees on the route and then categorize those trees in certain categories that would either allow them to cut them down, or trim them, or not to be touched at all and would require the vehicle to have to be maneuvered around that tree. That’s a big task, and they’re still hoping that the state of California won’t require an environmental impact report on these trees. If they require that, I don’t know if they’re going to meet September/October [deadlines].\\n\\n WRIGHT: This morning out at the mate-de-mate, what was your role?\n\nI was there representing the Boeing Company with my Ground Support Equipment Engineer, Norm Ring. We were there just in case some of our GSE didn’t work and if there were some mechanical issues.\\n\\n The rest of our team, those 18 folks, most of them are here in the Florida region, and they were all on call. If there were certain subsystem areas that were having problems during this mate, then we were to call them in and start spinning up the engineering support for them. Even when we’re flying the vehicles we had a lot of folks on call. But there were no issues, really. As you know, what was completed today was scheduled for yesterday. The winds didn’t allow it to happen yesterday, but they’re back on schedule."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, good. And weather looks good to deliver Discovery to go out on Tuesday?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, though you can never definitely tell the future. There will be some weather in the area, but not solid weather, so there’s ways to get around it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course NASA never wanted to fly the orbiter through weather, but this time you’re delivering to a museum. Is that much of an issue?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00721:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.8373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, though you can never definitely tell the future. There will be some weather in the area, but not solid weather, so there’s ways to get around it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course NASA never wanted to fly the orbiter through weather, but this time you’re delivering to a museum. Is that much of an issue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re ferrying with the same requirements. Do not fly through rain or clouds. The forecast is for scattered clouds and no rain or lightning. There is rain in the area, but it’s miles away, at least being forecasted. The concern is winds again, because when you’re on the dual crane de-mating operation, your wind requirements are much lower than when you’re on this mate/de-mate device. The general rule of thumb out here is 20 knots. The general rule of thumb at a remote site like Dulles using the dual cranes is 10 knots. The forecast is for higher than 10 knots for the week up there, so we’ll see. It’s going to be loud, too, because the work area is right in between two runways. You saw how quiet it was out there today, but it’s not going to be quiet in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it’s a busy airport. Are you staying for all the celebrations? We understand there’s a big event happening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’ll stay there. Right now I’m scheduled to leave next weekend, so if things get delayed I’ll see if I have to delay my return to California or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you’re headed up to New York in May?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00721:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re ferrying with the same requirements. Do not fly through rain or clouds. The forecast is for scattered clouds and no rain or lightning. There is rain in the area, but it’s miles away, at least being forecasted. The concern is winds again, because when you’re on the dual crane de-mating operation, your wind requirements are much lower than when you’re on this mate/de-mate device. The general rule of thumb out here is 20 knots. The general rule of thumb at a remote site like Dulles using the dual cranes is 10 knots. The forecast is for higher than 10 knots for the week up there, so we’ll see. It’s going to be loud, too, because the work area is right in between two runways. You saw how quiet it was out there today, but it’s not going to be quiet in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it’s a busy airport. Are you staying for all the celebrations? We understand there’s a big event happening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’ll stay there. Right now I’m scheduled to leave next weekend, so if things get delayed I’ll see if I have to delay my return to California or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you’re headed up to New York in May?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Then in September everybody comes to [California], so this might be one of my last trips. Every time I came here in the last two or three years, I make sure to look around and enjoy it, because I don’t know how much longer I’ll be coming down here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you might have a connection with the Visitor Complex here now."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00721:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.33, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’ll stay there. Right now I’m scheduled to leave next weekend, so if things get delayed I’ll see if I have to delay my return to California or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you’re headed up to New York in May?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Then in September everybody comes to [California], so this might be one of my last trips. Every time I came here in the last two or three years, I make sure to look around and enjoy it, because I don’t know how much longer I’ll be coming down here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you might have a connection with the Visitor Complex here now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well yes, but it’s not a career. So who knows, my career might end up in the mountains of Idaho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice place to retire. Well, thanks for catching us up. This is all interesting, and I’m glad we’re able to record it."}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00721:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Then in September everybody comes to [California], so this might be one of my last trips. Every time I came here in the last two or three years, I make sure to look around and enjoy it, because I don’t know how much longer I’ll be coming down here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you might have a connection with the Visitor Complex here now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well yes, but it’s not a career. So who knows, my career might end up in the mountains of Idaho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice place to retire. Well, thanks for catching us up. This is all interesting, and I’m glad we’re able to record it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re welcome. It will be fun to watch over the next week and through this fall. It’s neat for me because I’ve been working on this project for four or five years. It’s kind of like when you’re on a football team, all that practice and all that preparation and the game finally is there, and the game goes by like that [snaps fingers] after weeks of practice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And T&R is officially over in November?"}]}
+{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00721:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well yes, but it’s not a career. So who knows, my career might end up in the mountains of Idaho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice place to retire. Well, thanks for catching us up. This is all interesting, and I’m glad we’re able to record it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re welcome. It will be fun to watch over the next week and through this fall. It’s neat for me because I’ve been working on this project for four or five years. It’s kind of like when you’re on a football team, all that practice and all that preparation and the game finally is there, and the game goes by like that [snaps fingers] after weeks of practice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And T&R is officially over in November?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After the handover of 104 to the visitors’ center, yes. I’m sure there’ll be some residual work that we have to do to close out our records and bookkeeping, but not any technical work. It’s going to be interesting to watch this week and then those couple weeks out in California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I’d like to see that."}]}