diff --git "a/data/CNHsepouZMI_001/metadata.json" "b/data/CNHsepouZMI_001/metadata.json" new file mode 100644--- /dev/null +++ "b/data/CNHsepouZMI_001/metadata.json" @@ -0,0 +1,70875 @@ +{ + "sample_id": "CNHsepouZMI_001", + "video_id": "CNHsepouZMI", + "video_title": "#tics ohne Pause – so krass ist #tourette | no stigma!", + "chapter_title": "Daniel's story", + "chapter_start_sec": 125.0, + "chapter_end_sec": 1473.0, + "audio_file": "001 Daniel's story.mp3", + "srt_file": "001 Daniel's story.srt", + "language_code": "de", + "diarize": true, + "elevenlabs_model_id": "scribe_v2", + "created_at_utc": "2026-03-25T16:28:28.939756+00:00", + "transcript_text": "Ähm, mit Daniel. Daniel hat Tourette und, ähm, wir wollen uns heute mal so 'n bisschen drüber unterhalten, wie das Leben damit so läuft, weil das ist ja nicht immer einfach gewesen. Richtig, ja. Was ich bei Tourette total spannend und erstaunlich finde, ist, dass, ähm, die Krankheit nicht so häufig ist, aber eigentlich jeder was damit anfangen kann. Wenn man sagt, man, man dreht, ne. Ich hab's der Nachbarin erzählt, wir drehen mit jemandem mit Tourette, dann kommt keine Nachfrage: \"Was ist es?\" Für mein Empfinden war das vor zwanzig Jahren ungefähr wirklich noch anders. Ähm, da ist man wirklich sehr aufgefallen, beziehungsweise man fällt auch heute noch auf, aber es war immer so, dass man auf Unverständnis gestoßen ist und teilweise auch auf Intoleranz und wirklich bis zu Anfeindungen. Aber für mein Empfinden ist es so, dass es, seit, sich so in den letzten zwanzig Jahren stark geändert hat, was ich aber auch stark auf, ähm, die, ähm, Medien, Fernsehen, Radio, Internet und so beziehe. Und eben dass viele, ähm, Tourette-Betroffene sich inzwischen auch in die Öffentlichkeit wagen und Öffentlichkeitsarbeit betreiben. Ähm, wie war denn das, wann sind denn die ersten Tics bei dir aufgetreten? Ähm, ungefähr mit Eintritt ins Schulalter. Aha. Als ich, als ich so sechs, sieben Jahre alt war, gingen die ersten Tics los. Keiner wusste, was, was los war. Also so vokale Tics oder Bewegungen, oder? Es ging erst mal mit vokalen Tics los. Es gab einen Tic, den nenne ich immer ganz flapsigerweise Hündchentic, weil der hört sich so wie so 'n, so 'n hohes Hundebellen an. Damit ging's los und aber auch mit motorischen Tics, ähm, dass ich 'ne Zeit lang wirklich diesen motorischen Tic hatte, alle paar Schritte in die Hocke zu gehen. Mhm. Und das hat meine Mutter dann irgendwann, als ich aufm Weg zur Schule war, ausm Fenster gesehen und war ganz erstaunt, was, was denn der Junge da macht. Mhm. Genau. Damit, also das sind so die ersten Tics, an die ich mich heute erinnere noch. Und dann ist es aber auch nicht gleich, ähm, diagnostiziert worden. Nein, das hat noch mal circa sieben Jahre gedauert. Also mit dreizehn hab ich die Diagnose und die aber auch nicht wirklich durch eine Tourette-Sprechstunde oder gezielt, sondern, ähm, mein Vater hatte ein Telefonat mit einem Kinderarzt im Universitätsklinikum Eppendorf, Hamburg, ähm, und der hatte durchs Telefon meine Tics gehört und hat dann gesagt: \"Das muss Tourette sein.\" Ist ja verrückt. So, also sozusagen die, im Grunde 'ne Art Ferndiagnose war's bei mir, ja. Mhm. Und das wurde dann Jahre später auch wirklich dann- Mhm. -von ausgewiesenen Spezialisten dann auch bestätigt. Bestätigt. Okay, aber dann in der Schule, wie war's da? Wie wurdest du da-- Was hast du da für Erlebnis gehabt? Du hast das vorhin schon mal erzählt, ne. Also auch Lehrer selbst haben ja irgendwie... Ja, also die erste Klassenlehrerin war wirklich so, dass, ähm, bei einem der ersten Begegnungen hat sie mich gleich angeschrien, ich soll doch gefälligst ruhig sein, vor, vor der, vor der gesamten Klasse. Also wirklich, da ging's schon los und, ähm, das hat dafür gesorgt, dass mein Vater dort bei der Lehrerin angerufen hat oder sie sogar wirklich zum Gespräch gehabt hat und wirklich ziemlich runtergemacht hat. Mhm. Und, ähm, was auch dazu geführt hat, dass ich nach einem, nach dem ersten halben Jahr der erste, ersten Klasse sind wir dann auch umgezogen und ich hab die Schule gewechselt und bin da dann auf eine verständnisvolle Lehrerin- Ah ja. -getroffen. Und in der Grundschule war's tatsächlich so, dass meine motorischen Tics da waren, aber die motorischen, äh, die, die vokalen Tics, die waren in der Schule, während der Schulzeit waren die eigentlich, mein ich mich zu erinnern, fast weg. Mhm. So dass ich dann eben Rebound zu Hause hatte. Und Rebound ist halt, wenn, wenn die Tics, die man lange unterdrückt hat, wenn die sich dann, ähm, ausgeprägter für 'ne Zeit lang hinterher zeigen. Das bezeichnet man dann als Rebound. Ja. Und das hatte ich dann, dass ich dann eben zu Hause getict habe und in der Schule wenig. Ja. Und dass ich in der Schule getict hab, das ging eigentlich erst so mit der fünften, sechsten Klasse los. Da bin ich dann aufs Gymnasium gekommen und da ging's dann eben auch mit, mit Mobbing, ähm, mit Mitschülern los. Was waren das denn für Tics, die du da hattest? Ähm, weiterhin diese Tics oder auch ha, so Räuspertics, Schreitics, ähm, Gesichtstics und auch die motorischen Geschichten waren alle, das war alles dann vorhanden. Mhm. Und das ist dann auch damals, das war eben Ende der achtziger, Anfang der neunziger Jahre, da war das Tourette nicht so bekannt wie heute und, ähm, selbst Lehrer konnten damit nicht, teilweise nicht umgehen. Also einige haben's akzeptiert und einige haben mich dann entweder gemaßregelt und es ging auch mal da so weit, dass ich angeschrien wurde, ja. Was war so das schlimmste Erlebnis, an was du dich erinnerst, wo du so denkst: \"Oh Mann, das, das war wirklich schmerzhaft für mich?\" Ich glaub, die Masse hat's bei mir einfach gemacht, dass es, dass es eben immer wieder so war. Und, ähm, ein Erlebnis, was mir jetzt auffällt: Im Unterricht war es so, dass mir ein Klassenkamerad, mit dem ich mich eigentlich gut verstanden hab, der hat mir erzählt, dass andere Klassenkameraden Strichliste geführt hätten. Jeden Tic, jeder Tic hat 'n Strich bekommen. Mhm. Und nachm Unterricht hab ich dann zufällig bemerkt, dass dieser junge Mann oder dieser Junge selber 'ne Strichliste geführt hat und mich dann ganz verschämt angeguckt hat, als ich, als ich ihn darauf aufmerksam gemacht hab. Das war so 'n, das was war so 'n Ding, was, was dann auch in ihm so 'n bisschen das Vertrauen ziemlich gestört hat. Oh ja. Hattest du denn richtig Freunde, auch wo du dich unterstützt gefühlt hast? Das erstaunlicherweise ja. Ja. Also es ist oftmals so, dass sich Tourette-Betroffene, ähm, öfter auch isolieren vor der, vor der Gesellschaft. Und da ist es dann sogar, was für gesunde Menschen alltäglich erscheint, Bus fahren, Bahn fahren, Supermarkt, ähm, das sind alles Sachen, die eigentlich so mal eben so gemacht werden und das ist für 'n Tourette-Betroffener auch 'ne wirkliche Herausforderung. Aber bei mir war's so, ich hab, ähm, in der Nachbarschaft Freunde gehabt, wo ich aber auch-Unabhängig vom Tourette eben teilweise meine Schwierigkeiten mit hatte. Und als ich den Konfirmandenunterricht begangen hab, ist eine Dame in den Raum gekommen, die grade in der, im Jugendbereich der Kirche angefangen hat. Und die hat, ähm, ehrenamtliche Jugendgruppenleiter gesucht. Und, ähm, da hab ich mich dann gemeldet und über diesen, diese Jugendetage habe ich dann, ähm, sind dann andere Gruppen entstanden. Das hat sich so langsam aufgebaut und dadurch hab ich dann 'n ganz engen und großen Freundeskreis- Mhm. der dann auch fluktuierte. Dann sind manche irgendwann gegangen und dann sind wieder neue Leute dazugekommen. Also ich hatte eigentlich in meiner Jugend und, äh, Jungerwachsenenzeit immer viele Freunde. Ja. Jetzt ist es so, dass mein Freundeskreis nicht mehr so groß ist. Ich hab zu einigen noch Kontakt, aber ich hab jetzt einen etwas kleineren Freundeskreis, aber mit engen Freunden, die mich teilweise seit über zwanzig bis dreißig Jahren begleiten. Mhm. So und auf die ich auch sehr viel Wert lege und auch weiß, dass die auch auf mich unheimlich viel Wert legen und dass für die Tourette eigentlich kein Thema mehr ist, weil sie mich einfach eben auch als Menschen kennen. Ja. Wenn du sagst, 'n kleinen Freundeskreis, findest du ihn zu klein oder ist es so- Nein. Nein. Also, ähm, was heißt zu klein? Mein wirklicher Freundeskreis, das ist, der ist nicht, nicht sehr groß. Mhm. Ich hab noch 'ne Menge Kumpels und sehr viele Bekannte. Mein Handicap in der Sache ist nur, dass ich auch oftmals das Problem habe, ich muss erst mal mein Tourette erklären und dann gibt es eben in der Gesellschaft öfter auch Vorurteile, die dann sagen: \"Oh, mit Tourette kann ich jetzt nicht umgehen.\" Ähm, wo die Menschen dann auch nicht in der Lage oder bereit sind, dann erst mal zu gucken, so: Wer ist denn eigentlich der Mensch dahinter? Mhm. Was dann eben auch, ähm, zum Beispiel was Beziehungen zu 'ner Partnerin oder so angeht. Das ist, das ist 'n schwieriges Unterfangen, ja. Sehr schwierig? Ja, also ich hatte tatsächlich schon Partnerinnen in meinem Leben, aber, ähm, grade wenn es so oberflächliche Sachen sind wie Online-Dating oder so, diese ganzen Online-Dating-Geschichten, ähm, dann ist es ganz oft so, man, man schreibt und man schreibt so lange, bis das Wort Tourette fällt und dann wird oftmals zurückgerudert. So: \"Oh, nee, da komm ich nicht mit klar\", und so. Also es geht mir ja in so 'ner, in so 'nem Schreiben gar nicht darum, sofort 'ne lebenslange, unumkehrbare Beziehung einzugehen, sondern ich würde mir einfach wünschen, dass die Menschen die Bereitschaft zeigen, mich erst mal kennenzulernen. Vielleicht bin ich ja doch ganz anders. Ja. Also ich bin, ich bin nicht Tourette. Tourette ist ein Teil von mir, aber ich bin nicht Tourette. Das ist es- Aber weißt du, was da das Vorurteil ist? Also was, was da- Na ja, es ist so, ähm, wenn, wenn man zum Beispiel eine Beziehung oder tagtäglich mit mir zu tun hat, dann hab ich halt meine vokalen Tics, die dann vielleicht auch irgendwann auf die Nerven gehen können. Ähm, außerdem habe ich halt auch Begleiterkrankungen, die, die vielleicht schwierig sein können. Und ich hab so das Gefühl, grade beim Online-Dating ist es so, ähm, perfekt ist nicht gut genug. So. Also wenn, wenn der Mensch perfekt ist, dann reicht's immer noch nicht. Und also wirklich oberflächlich. Ja. Und hast du da 'ne Lösung für? Bisher nicht. Hast du andere Wege eingeschlagen? Bisher nicht, nein. Nee. Bisher noch nicht. Mhm. Also ich bin so, dass ich auch offen damit umgehe, weil ich eben auch, ähm, nicht dafür sorgen möchte, irgendwie Peinlichkeiten, wenn man sich so das erste Mal trifft und dann kommt erst raus, Tourette, so. Oh, das ist für mich und für die gegenüberliegende Person 'ne unangenehme Situation dann. Ich versuch, mit meinem Tourette immer von vornherein mit offenen Karten zu spielen, weil wenn man beim ersten Treffen schon Heimlichkeiten hat, wie kann es dann in einer Beziehung laufen? Das ist so mein Gedanke dabei auch, ne. Es gibt durchaus Tourette-Betroffene und es gibt auch welche, die, die in Beziehungen leben und auch 'n glückliches Leben führen, ähm, und es gibt auch die Menschen, ähm, die nicht so oberflächlich denken, aber wo sind sie? Die muss man erst mal finden, ne. Okay. Dann hast du's grade gesagt, Komorbiditäten. Was gibt's da noch? An Ku... Begleiterkrankungen. Als Begleiterkrankungen? Mhm. Also ich glaub, die häufigste Begleiterkrankung ist ein ADHS. Ah. Ähm. Ach, grundsätzlich. Okay. Nicht, nicht grundsätzlich, aber die häufigste. Ja. Also bei mir ist es tatsächlich so: Ich hab, ähm, ich hab ein ADHS, ähm, grade erst diagnostiziert und, ähm, ich leide auch unter Depression, auch wenn man mir das nicht anmerkt, aber das ist bei depressiven Menschen ja häufig der Fall, dass sie ganz anders wirken, wo die Leute dann sagen: \"Das hätt ich jetzt nie von dir gedacht.\" Aber ich hab sehr viel mit Gedanken zu kämpfen und so. Und das sind so meine Begleiterkrankungen. Und, ähm, es ist häufig so, dass, dass Menschen mit Tourette eben auch Begleiterkrankungen haben. Und die häufigste, ich glaub, bei fünfzig bis sechzig Prozent ist es so, dass die dann eben auch ein ADHS haben, auch im Erwachsenenalter. Glaubst du, dass sich die Depression dadurch entwickelt hat durch de-dein Tourette? Da bin ich überzeugt von, ja. Weil durch, durch viele Nackenschläge in meiner Biografie, ähm, hat sich irgendwann so 'n bisschen in meinem Unterbewusstsein, glaub ich, eingeprägt, dass ich falsch bin. Das hat damit zu tun. Also ich denke mal, wenn, wenn ich von vornherein irgendwie komplett von allen Menschen mit Tourette akzeptiert worden wäre, dann wär ich heute vielleicht 'n selbstbewusster und selbst 'n Mann mit starkem Selbstvertrauen, wie, wie viele andere Menschen, die eben nicht mit Tourette leben, das auch sind. Und das ist dann aber auch der Grund, warum du nicht arbeiten kannst. Es ist nicht Tourette, sondern so. Genau, also das Tourette ist für mich gar nicht so der Grund mehr, weil dass ich Tourette... Also ich, von den drei Diagnosen, die ich ja schon geschildert hab, ist wirklich, ähm, für mich inzwischen das Tourette die, die nur noch die drittwichtigste. Mhm. Mhm. Ähm, die anderen beiden beschäftigen mich aktuell viel mehr. Mhm. Ähm, und, und die Depression, ich glaub, das sind wirklich die Depressionen und vielleicht auch das ADHS. Das weiß ich jetzt noch nicht genau, ähm, was mich, was mich hindert zu arbeiten, ja. Mhm. Kannst du mal beschreiben, wie, wie sich Tourette anfühlt? Bist du selber überrascht über die Wörter, die da rauskommen, oder? Nein.Das ist, ähm, man spricht ja immer, also man unterscheidet ja eigentlich zwischen Tourette und Zwangserkrankung. Das sind ja zwei verschiedene Paaren, aber für mich fühlt sich, in meinem persönlichen Empfinden, fühlt sich Tourette wirklich wie 'ne Zwangserkrankung an. Also ich spüre wirklich den Drang, diese Tics auszustoßen und sie kommen auch nicht unbewusst. Ähm, wenn ich, wenn ich den, dem Drang nicht nachgebe, dann werde ich von 'ner starken Unruhe, inneren Unruhe erfüllt. Und, ähm, das ist im Grunde so 'n bisschen wie 'ne Entladung. Ähm, dann geht's immer erst mal wieder für 'n Moment. Aber es ist nicht so, dass jetzt irgendwie 'n Tic kommt und ich total überrascht bin, dass dieser Tic kam, sodass das wie 'n… Deswegen, ähm, gehe ich auch nicht ganz konform mit dem Begriff Schluckauf, weil Schluckauf wirklich 'n Reflex ist. Und für mich, in meinem persönlichen Empfinden, ist Tourette kein Reflex, sondern 'ne teilbewusste Handlung, würde ich das immer bezeichnen. Teilbewusst? Inwiefern teilbewusst? Ähm, ich merke, wenn sich der Tic anbahnt. Also hast du das Wort schon im Kopf? Ich habe das Wort im Kopf, die Worte oder die Tics, also jeden einzelnen Tic oder auch motorische Tics, die Bewegung, dass ich das jetzt machen muss. Das bahnt sich vorher an und ich weiß, was jetzt kommt. Okay. Ich kann's dann nur nicht, nicht, nicht wegsteuern. Ja. Ähm, also beim Schluckauf ist es ja so, dass der Schluckauf kommt und du, du gar nicht damit gerechnet hast. Ja, ja. Aber das ist bei, bei meinem Tourette zumindest ist das anders. Also deswegen nenne ich das jetzt, also ich weiß nicht, ob das das richtige Wort ist, aber ich nenn's einfach mal teilbewusst. Ja. Ähm, das ist schon 'ne Handlung, also 'n Drang, der sich aufbaut und dem ich dann nachgebe irgendwann. Also ich spreche jetzt natürlich die ganze Zeit nur aus meinem persönlichen Empfinden. Andere Leute empfinden das wahrscheinlich, andere Betroffene empfinden das vielleicht auch ganz anders. Ähm, ich will auch keine allgemeingültigen Dinge jetzt- Wie du sagst, jeder Tourette ist anders, ne? Jedes Tourette ist anders, genau. Und das ist, wie gesagt, was ich hier erzähle, ist wirklich nur mein Empfinden. Wenn du so die, deine Biografie anschaust, was war so die schwierigste Zeit? Also ich würde jetzt denken, so Pubertät, junge Erwachsenenalter. Nein, Kindheit und Jugend tatsächlich, weil, ähm, ich eben auch schwere Probleme im Elternhaus hatte. Ähm, meine Eltern waren nicht in der Lage, für sich wahrscheinlich das zu verstehen und damit umzugehen. Und das sorgte dafür, dass dann sehr häufig der Haussegen schief hing, ähm, und ich dann auch mit 16 bereits ausgezogen bin in eine, in eine Jugendwohnung. Mhm. Du hast ja gesagt, Nackenschläge. Was sind noch so Nackenschläge? Also du hast ja schon ein bisschen erzählt, Schulzeit. Nein, das Schulmobbing, dann, ähm, die Situation, nein, dass ich im Arbeitsleben nicht so Fuß fassen konnte, wie ich das wollte, weil ich eben mit meinem Problem zu sehr beschäftigt war, ähm, um mit Selbstvertrauen 'n Berufsleben zu führen. Du hast Erzieher gelernt. Hast du auch als Erzieher gearbeitet, oder? Ein bisschen, ja. Und, ähm, da ist es auch nicht so gewesen, dass mein Tourette das Problem war. Ich war in der offenen Jugendarbeit tätig und der größte Teil der Jugendlichen, ähm, hat das auch akzeptiert und empathisch sich verhalten. Gab natürlich immer so diese Ausreißer, die dann versucht haben, mich an den verwundbaren Stellen zu treffen, was auch schwierig war. Aber ich glaub, die Depressionen waren eher der Grund, weshalb, weshalb's nicht weiterging, ähm, und möglicherweise auch dieses jetzt erst diagnostizierte ADHS. ADHS hat man ja nicht irgendwie, das kriegt man ja nicht irgendwann eigentlich, sondern es ist ja eigentlich schon immer da. Aber ich weiß es, ich weiß jetzt erst seit Kurzem, dass ich's habe. Wie war denn das, als du mit 13 die Diagnose bekommen hast, es ist Tourette? Nein. Warst du da froh, dass es jetzt 'n Namen hat, dass du dir das erklären konntest, dass du endlich naschen durftest? Oder wie war das? Äh, beides. Also einerseits war's so, das Kind hat endlich 'n Namen und ich wusste, dass ich nicht völlig bekloppt war und nicht allein bin damit, dass es, dass es tatsächlich ein Krankheitsbild gibt und andere Menschen, die das hatten oder haben. Das war schon auf eine gewisse Weise 'ne Erleichterung, aber auf 'ne andere Weise hat sich eben in meinem Umfeld nichts geändert. Also zu Hause und in der Schule war's trotzdem immer noch problematisch. Das hat sich nicht geändert und bis zu meinem sechzehnten Lebensjahr dann eben auch stetig verschlimmert weiterhin. Aber wenn du sagst, wenn du jetzt jemandem schreibst, ne, dass du, ähm, Tourette hast, dass die dann sich auch gleich zurückziehen, hat sich ja so ganz, ganz viel dann irgendwie doch nicht verändert, oder? Es wird auf jeden Fall akzeptiert und ja einigermaßen verständnisvoll damit umgegangen. Also die Leute bedanken sich dann für die Offenheit, aber sagen dann auch, sie, sie können das für sich nicht vereinbaren. Okay. Wo, wo sie dann auch wirklich offenbaren, dass der Fehler gar nicht bei mir liegt, sondern bei ihnen. Und damals war's eben so, der Fehler lag wirklich bei mir. Ja, okay. Und das wurde mir dann auch so vermittelt. Wie ist es für dich in der Öffentlichkeit? Was erlebst du? Ist es für dich 'ne unangenehme Situation, oder? Ja, es ist schon unangenehm. Also es hat sich inzwischen so weit verbessert, dass ich, ähm, in der Lage bin, die Tics so 'n bisschen runterzukühlen und teilweise auch zu unterdrücken. Aber ich steh schon immer unter einem gewissen Druck. Mhm. Das ist immer schon nicht so leicht. Und, ähm, wenn du sagst, das ist schon so 'n Druckgefühl, macht der Druck dann wiederum auch was mit den Tics? Ja, der, der, der Drang verstärkt sich, weil ich eben mit den Gedanken immer bei dem Tic bin. Also es ist ja auch so, wenn ich, wenn ich auf etwas konzentriert bin, dann passiert es durchaus auch mal zwischendurch, dass ich die, dass ich die Tics vergesse und dann auch minutenlang dann manchmal ticfrei bin. Ja. Also wenn ich wirklich in einer Arbeit voll aufgehe, was mit meinem ADHS und so natürlich selten passiert, aber wenn ich wirklich konzentriert bin, dann macht das, macht das schon, reguliert das die Tics runter. Ja. Und wenn ich eben viel dran denke, was eben in der Öffentlichkeit eigentlich ständig der Fall ist, dann spür ich schon verstärkten Druck, ja. Kommen wir ganz nach hinten? Ja. Ja. Ja. Nee. Triggert es, triggert es dich auch, in eine Bahn reinzusteigen? Das triggert mich auch, ja genau. Ja. Ist nicht ganz einfach. Ähm, und ich neig auch dazu, irgendwie wenn die Bahn leer ist, mehr zu ticken, als wenn sie voll ist. Wie anstrengend ist denn das Unterdrücken? Och, doch schon. Also es macht, gibt halt inneren Druck, ähm, man fühlt sich halt ziemlich unfrei irgendwie so, so und das ist dann, ja, Unwohlsein würde ich jetzt eher mit, mit Übelkeit und so ver-verbinden, aber das ist es nicht. Sondern so, so 'n wirklich so 'n innerer Druck. Ähm. Und so anstrengend, dass du dann nach dem- Man fühlt sich eingeengt. Ja. Genau. Und so, dass du dann k.o. bist, wenn du dann so 'ne Fahrt gemacht hast? Oh ja, wenn ich so, wenn ich wirklich irgendwie acht Stunden oder so mit der Bahn gefahren bin, dann kannst mich abends in der Pfeife rauchen. Echt, dann bin ich wirklich, dass ich dann auch nichts mehr dann, nichts Großes mehr mache. Kannst du das beschreiben, wie man unterdrückt? Gibt's da irgendwie was, wie man sich das vorstellen kann? Ich versuch zum Beispiel, manchmal ist es ja auch so, dass ich meine Tics, dass ich dann so, was sich anhört wie Selbstgespräche, dass ich dann sitze und, und irgendwie so vor mich hin mummel. Ja. Ähm, so was versuche ich zum Beispiel zu verhindern, indem ich bewusst den Mund geschlossen halte. Ja. So was, was mir auch nicht immer gelingt, aber teilweise eben schon. Also auch da hab ich so gewisse Strategien, ähm, um, um mich zu unterdrücken. Außerdem versuche ich mich dann, wenn's zu, der Druck ist, Augen schließen oder auf die Musik zu achten. Gibt's auch Tage, wo du keine Tics hast? Nee. Nee? Also gar nicht. Okay. Es gibt Tage, wo ich mich besser fühle und entspannter, weniger Tics habe. Es gibt Tage, wo ich total viele Tics hab. Das kann auch manchmal von Tag zu Tag wechseln, aber ticfrei bin ich nie. Und so Phasen, die einfach viel, viel weniger sind. Kannst du das 'n bisschen verknüpfen mit irgendwas? Frisch verliebt und dann gibt's, ist es weniger oder so? Also das mit dem frisch verliebt, da sagst du was. Also wenn ich wirklich mich gut fühle, zum Beispiel irgendwie kuscheln oder, oder solche Sachen, dann, dann gehen die Tics tatsächlich signifikant runter. Ja. Auch Hunde haben dann so 'ne therapeutische Wirk-Wirkung auf mich. Also so, wenn ich mich einfach wirklich entspannt und gut fühle und auch das Gefühl hab, jetzt kann's, jetzt könntest du richtig ticken und keinen würde es interessieren, dann gehen die Tics runter. Aber dann, wenn es wieder stören würde und interessieren würde- Machst du deine Tics. Dann geht's wieder los. Du hast nun gesagt, so im Alltag kann es besser werden. Wünschst du dir, dass es besser wird? Ich glaub, ich wär nicht der Mensch, der ich jetzt bin ohne mein Tourette. Ich weiß nicht, ob ich vielleicht, ähm, wenn ich diese Probleme nicht hätte, ob ich dann vielleicht 'n oberflächlicher Mensch wäre, der, der selber von Vorurteilen gebeutelt ist oder so. Und deswegen ist es so, dass es vielleicht auch 'n positiven Aspekt hat, Tourette zu haben. Und was wünschst du dir so für die Zukunft? Dass die Menschen noch mehr Verständnis haben, dass sie vielleicht 'n Medikament finden, was wirklich die Tics komplett unterdrückt, oder? Der absolut über allem stehende Wunsch ist, dass, dass irgendwann das Tourette-Syndrom komplett geheilt werden kann. Also dass ausgemerzt sozusagen. Ähm, was jetzt im Moment auf jeden Fall unrealistisch erscheint. Was ich fast noch wichtiger finde als die Behandlung, ist die Sensibilisierung in der Öffentlichkeit, in der Gesellschaft. Dass das Tourette, wenn es nicht geheilt werden kann, dass es irgendwann egal wird, weil, weil es 'ne Normalität annimmt, ähm, und niemanden mehr wirklich interessiert. Mhm. Das wäre schon 'n Wunsch für mich. Mhm. Und was wünschst du dir für dich? Ankommen wäre gut. Also in einer Wohnung, wo ich mich wohlfühle, in einer Beziehung, in der ich mich wohlfühle, vielleicht auch mit einer Arbeit, wo ich mich wohlfühle. Dass so, dass es so 'n stimmiges Gesamtpaket wird. Mhm. Das, das würde ich mir für mich konkret wünschen, ja. Das wünsch ich dir auch. Danke schön.", + "raw_asr_payload": { + "language_code": "deu", + "language_probability": 1.0, + "text": "Ähm, mit Daniel. Daniel hat Tourette und, ähm, wir wollen uns heute mal so 'n bisschen drüber unterhalten, wie das Leben damit so läuft, weil das ist ja nicht immer einfach gewesen. Richtig, ja. Was ich bei Tourette total spannend und erstaunlich finde, ist, dass, ähm, die Krankheit nicht so häufig ist, aber eigentlich jeder was damit anfangen kann. Wenn man sagt, man, man dreht, ne. Ich hab's der Nachbarin erzählt, wir drehen mit jemandem mit Tourette, dann kommt keine Nachfrage: \"Was ist es?\" Für mein Empfinden war das vor zwanzig Jahren ungefähr wirklich noch anders. Ähm, da ist man wirklich sehr aufgefallen, beziehungsweise man fällt auch heute noch auf, aber es war immer so, dass man auf Unverständnis gestoßen ist und teilweise auch auf Intoleranz und wirklich bis zu Anfeindungen. Aber für mein Empfinden ist es so, dass es, seit, sich so in den letzten zwanzig Jahren stark geändert hat, was ich aber auch stark auf, ähm, die, ähm, Medien, Fernsehen, Radio, Internet und so beziehe. Und eben dass viele, ähm, Tourette-Betroffene sich inzwischen auch in die Öffentlichkeit wagen und Öffentlichkeitsarbeit betreiben. Ähm, wie war denn das, wann sind denn die ersten Tics bei dir aufgetreten? Ähm, ungefähr mit Eintritt ins Schulalter. Aha. Als ich, als ich so sechs, sieben Jahre alt war, gingen die ersten Tics los. Keiner wusste, was, was los war. Also so vokale Tics oder Bewegungen, oder? Es ging erst mal mit vokalen Tics los. Es gab einen Tic, den nenne ich immer ganz flapsigerweise Hündchentic, weil der hört sich so wie so 'n, so 'n hohes Hundebellen an. Damit ging's los und aber auch mit motorischen Tics, ähm, dass ich 'ne Zeit lang wirklich diesen motorischen Tic hatte, alle paar Schritte in die Hocke zu gehen. Mhm. Und das hat meine Mutter dann irgendwann, als ich aufm Weg zur Schule war, ausm Fenster gesehen und war ganz erstaunt, was, was denn der Junge da macht. Mhm. Genau. Damit, also das sind so die ersten Tics, an die ich mich heute erinnere noch. Und dann ist es aber auch nicht gleich, ähm, diagnostiziert worden. Nein, das hat noch mal circa sieben Jahre gedauert. Also mit dreizehn hab ich die Diagnose und die aber auch nicht wirklich durch eine Tourette-Sprechstunde oder gezielt, sondern, ähm, mein Vater hatte ein Telefonat mit einem Kinderarzt im Universitätsklinikum Eppendorf, Hamburg, ähm, und der hatte durchs Telefon meine Tics gehört und hat dann gesagt: \"Das muss Tourette sein.\" Ist ja verrückt. So, also sozusagen die, im Grunde 'ne Art Ferndiagnose war's bei mir, ja. Mhm. Und das wurde dann Jahre später auch wirklich dann- Mhm. -von ausgewiesenen Spezialisten dann auch bestätigt. Bestätigt. Okay, aber dann in der Schule, wie war's da? Wie wurdest du da-- Was hast du da für Erlebnis gehabt? Du hast das vorhin schon mal erzählt, ne. Also auch Lehrer selbst haben ja irgendwie... Ja, also die erste Klassenlehrerin war wirklich so, dass, ähm, bei einem der ersten Begegnungen hat sie mich gleich angeschrien, ich soll doch gefälligst ruhig sein, vor, vor der, vor der gesamten Klasse. Also wirklich, da ging's schon los und, ähm, das hat dafür gesorgt, dass mein Vater dort bei der Lehrerin angerufen hat oder sie sogar wirklich zum Gespräch gehabt hat und wirklich ziemlich runtergemacht hat. Mhm. Und, ähm, was auch dazu geführt hat, dass ich nach einem, nach dem ersten halben Jahr der erste, ersten Klasse sind wir dann auch umgezogen und ich hab die Schule gewechselt und bin da dann auf eine verständnisvolle Lehrerin- Ah ja. -getroffen. Und in der Grundschule war's tatsächlich so, dass meine motorischen Tics da waren, aber die motorischen, äh, die, die vokalen Tics, die waren in der Schule, während der Schulzeit waren die eigentlich, mein ich mich zu erinnern, fast weg. Mhm. So dass ich dann eben Rebound zu Hause hatte. Und Rebound ist halt, wenn, wenn die Tics, die man lange unterdrückt hat, wenn die sich dann, ähm, ausgeprägter für 'ne Zeit lang hinterher zeigen. Das bezeichnet man dann als Rebound. Ja. Und das hatte ich dann, dass ich dann eben zu Hause getict habe und in der Schule wenig. Ja. Und dass ich in der Schule getict hab, das ging eigentlich erst so mit der fünften, sechsten Klasse los. Da bin ich dann aufs Gymnasium gekommen und da ging's dann eben auch mit, mit Mobbing, ähm, mit Mitschülern los. Was waren das denn für Tics, die du da hattest? Ähm, weiterhin diese Tics oder auch ha, so Räuspertics, Schreitics, ähm, Gesichtstics und auch die motorischen Geschichten waren alle, das war alles dann vorhanden. Mhm. Und das ist dann auch damals, das war eben Ende der achtziger, Anfang der neunziger Jahre, da war das Tourette nicht so bekannt wie heute und, ähm, selbst Lehrer konnten damit nicht, teilweise nicht umgehen. Also einige haben's akzeptiert und einige haben mich dann entweder gemaßregelt und es ging auch mal da so weit, dass ich angeschrien wurde, ja. Was war so das schlimmste Erlebnis, an was du dich erinnerst, wo du so denkst: \"Oh Mann, das, das war wirklich schmerzhaft für mich?\" Ich glaub, die Masse hat's bei mir einfach gemacht, dass es, dass es eben immer wieder so war. Und, ähm, ein Erlebnis, was mir jetzt auffällt: Im Unterricht war es so, dass mir ein Klassenkamerad, mit dem ich mich eigentlich gut verstanden hab, der hat mir erzählt, dass andere Klassenkameraden Strichliste geführt hätten. Jeden Tic, jeder Tic hat 'n Strich bekommen. Mhm. Und nachm Unterricht hab ich dann zufällig bemerkt, dass dieser junge Mann oder dieser Junge selber 'ne Strichliste geführt hat und mich dann ganz verschämt angeguckt hat, als ich, als ich ihn darauf aufmerksam gemacht hab. Das war so 'n, das was war so 'n Ding, was, was dann auch in ihm so 'n bisschen das Vertrauen ziemlich gestört hat. Oh ja. Hattest du denn richtig Freunde, auch wo du dich unterstützt gefühlt hast? Das erstaunlicherweise ja. Ja. Also es ist oftmals so, dass sich Tourette-Betroffene, ähm, öfter auch isolieren vor der, vor der Gesellschaft. Und da ist es dann sogar, was für gesunde Menschen alltäglich erscheint, Bus fahren, Bahn fahren, Supermarkt, ähm, das sind alles Sachen, die eigentlich so mal eben so gemacht werden und das ist für 'n Tourette-Betroffener auch 'ne wirkliche Herausforderung. Aber bei mir war's so, ich hab, ähm, in der Nachbarschaft Freunde gehabt, wo ich aber auch-Unabhängig vom Tourette eben teilweise meine Schwierigkeiten mit hatte. Und als ich den Konfirmandenunterricht begangen hab, ist eine Dame in den Raum gekommen, die grade in der, im Jugendbereich der Kirche angefangen hat. Und die hat, ähm, ehrenamtliche Jugendgruppenleiter gesucht. Und, ähm, da hab ich mich dann gemeldet und über diesen, diese Jugendetage habe ich dann, ähm, sind dann andere Gruppen entstanden. Das hat sich so langsam aufgebaut und dadurch hab ich dann 'n ganz engen und großen Freundeskreis- Mhm. der dann auch fluktuierte. Dann sind manche irgendwann gegangen und dann sind wieder neue Leute dazugekommen. Also ich hatte eigentlich in meiner Jugend und, äh, Jungerwachsenenzeit immer viele Freunde. Ja. Jetzt ist es so, dass mein Freundeskreis nicht mehr so groß ist. Ich hab zu einigen noch Kontakt, aber ich hab jetzt einen etwas kleineren Freundeskreis, aber mit engen Freunden, die mich teilweise seit über zwanzig bis dreißig Jahren begleiten. Mhm. So und auf die ich auch sehr viel Wert lege und auch weiß, dass die auch auf mich unheimlich viel Wert legen und dass für die Tourette eigentlich kein Thema mehr ist, weil sie mich einfach eben auch als Menschen kennen. Ja. Wenn du sagst, 'n kleinen Freundeskreis, findest du ihn zu klein oder ist es so- Nein. Nein. Also, ähm, was heißt zu klein? Mein wirklicher Freundeskreis, das ist, der ist nicht, nicht sehr groß. Mhm. Ich hab noch 'ne Menge Kumpels und sehr viele Bekannte. Mein Handicap in der Sache ist nur, dass ich auch oftmals das Problem habe, ich muss erst mal mein Tourette erklären und dann gibt es eben in der Gesellschaft öfter auch Vorurteile, die dann sagen: \"Oh, mit Tourette kann ich jetzt nicht umgehen.\" Ähm, wo die Menschen dann auch nicht in der Lage oder bereit sind, dann erst mal zu gucken, so: Wer ist denn eigentlich der Mensch dahinter? Mhm. Was dann eben auch, ähm, zum Beispiel was Beziehungen zu 'ner Partnerin oder so angeht. Das ist, das ist 'n schwieriges Unterfangen, ja. Sehr schwierig? Ja, also ich hatte tatsächlich schon Partnerinnen in meinem Leben, aber, ähm, grade wenn es so oberflächliche Sachen sind wie Online-Dating oder so, diese ganzen Online-Dating-Geschichten, ähm, dann ist es ganz oft so, man, man schreibt und man schreibt so lange, bis das Wort Tourette fällt und dann wird oftmals zurückgerudert. So: \"Oh, nee, da komm ich nicht mit klar\", und so. Also es geht mir ja in so 'ner, in so 'nem Schreiben gar nicht darum, sofort 'ne lebenslange, unumkehrbare Beziehung einzugehen, sondern ich würde mir einfach wünschen, dass die Menschen die Bereitschaft zeigen, mich erst mal kennenzulernen. Vielleicht bin ich ja doch ganz anders. Ja. Also ich bin, ich bin nicht Tourette. Tourette ist ein Teil von mir, aber ich bin nicht Tourette. Das ist es- Aber weißt du, was da das Vorurteil ist? Also was, was da- Na ja, es ist so, ähm, wenn, wenn man zum Beispiel eine Beziehung oder tagtäglich mit mir zu tun hat, dann hab ich halt meine vokalen Tics, die dann vielleicht auch irgendwann auf die Nerven gehen können. Ähm, außerdem habe ich halt auch Begleiterkrankungen, die, die vielleicht schwierig sein können. Und ich hab so das Gefühl, grade beim Online-Dating ist es so, ähm, perfekt ist nicht gut genug. So. Also wenn, wenn der Mensch perfekt ist, dann reicht's immer noch nicht. Und also wirklich oberflächlich. Ja. Und hast du da 'ne Lösung für? Bisher nicht. Hast du andere Wege eingeschlagen? Bisher nicht, nein. Nee. Bisher noch nicht. Mhm. Also ich bin so, dass ich auch offen damit umgehe, weil ich eben auch, ähm, nicht dafür sorgen möchte, irgendwie Peinlichkeiten, wenn man sich so das erste Mal trifft und dann kommt erst raus, Tourette, so. Oh, das ist für mich und für die gegenüberliegende Person 'ne unangenehme Situation dann. Ich versuch, mit meinem Tourette immer von vornherein mit offenen Karten zu spielen, weil wenn man beim ersten Treffen schon Heimlichkeiten hat, wie kann es dann in einer Beziehung laufen? Das ist so mein Gedanke dabei auch, ne. Es gibt durchaus Tourette-Betroffene und es gibt auch welche, die, die in Beziehungen leben und auch 'n glückliches Leben führen, ähm, und es gibt auch die Menschen, ähm, die nicht so oberflächlich denken, aber wo sind sie? Die muss man erst mal finden, ne. Okay. Dann hast du's grade gesagt, Komorbiditäten. Was gibt's da noch? An Ku... Begleiterkrankungen. Als Begleiterkrankungen? Mhm. Also ich glaub, die häufigste Begleiterkrankung ist ein ADHS. Ah. Ähm. Ach, grundsätzlich. Okay. Nicht, nicht grundsätzlich, aber die häufigste. Ja. Also bei mir ist es tatsächlich so: Ich hab, ähm, ich hab ein ADHS, ähm, grade erst diagnostiziert und, ähm, ich leide auch unter Depression, auch wenn man mir das nicht anmerkt, aber das ist bei depressiven Menschen ja häufig der Fall, dass sie ganz anders wirken, wo die Leute dann sagen: \"Das hätt ich jetzt nie von dir gedacht.\" Aber ich hab sehr viel mit Gedanken zu kämpfen und so. Und das sind so meine Begleiterkrankungen. Und, ähm, es ist häufig so, dass, dass Menschen mit Tourette eben auch Begleiterkrankungen haben. Und die häufigste, ich glaub, bei fünfzig bis sechzig Prozent ist es so, dass die dann eben auch ein ADHS haben, auch im Erwachsenenalter. Glaubst du, dass sich die Depression dadurch entwickelt hat durch de-dein Tourette? Da bin ich überzeugt von, ja. Weil durch, durch viele Nackenschläge in meiner Biografie, ähm, hat sich irgendwann so 'n bisschen in meinem Unterbewusstsein, glaub ich, eingeprägt, dass ich falsch bin. Das hat damit zu tun. Also ich denke mal, wenn, wenn ich von vornherein irgendwie komplett von allen Menschen mit Tourette akzeptiert worden wäre, dann wär ich heute vielleicht 'n selbstbewusster und selbst 'n Mann mit starkem Selbstvertrauen, wie, wie viele andere Menschen, die eben nicht mit Tourette leben, das auch sind. Und das ist dann aber auch der Grund, warum du nicht arbeiten kannst. Es ist nicht Tourette, sondern so. Genau, also das Tourette ist für mich gar nicht so der Grund mehr, weil dass ich Tourette... Also ich, von den drei Diagnosen, die ich ja schon geschildert hab, ist wirklich, ähm, für mich inzwischen das Tourette die, die nur noch die drittwichtigste. Mhm. Mhm. Ähm, die anderen beiden beschäftigen mich aktuell viel mehr. Mhm. Ähm, und, und die Depression, ich glaub, das sind wirklich die Depressionen und vielleicht auch das ADHS. Das weiß ich jetzt noch nicht genau, ähm, was mich, was mich hindert zu arbeiten, ja. Mhm. Kannst du mal beschreiben, wie, wie sich Tourette anfühlt? Bist du selber überrascht über die Wörter, die da rauskommen, oder? Nein.Das ist, ähm, man spricht ja immer, also man unterscheidet ja eigentlich zwischen Tourette und Zwangserkrankung. Das sind ja zwei verschiedene Paaren, aber für mich fühlt sich, in meinem persönlichen Empfinden, fühlt sich Tourette wirklich wie 'ne Zwangserkrankung an. Also ich spüre wirklich den Drang, diese Tics auszustoßen und sie kommen auch nicht unbewusst. Ähm, wenn ich, wenn ich den, dem Drang nicht nachgebe, dann werde ich von 'ner starken Unruhe, inneren Unruhe erfüllt. Und, ähm, das ist im Grunde so 'n bisschen wie 'ne Entladung. Ähm, dann geht's immer erst mal wieder für 'n Moment. Aber es ist nicht so, dass jetzt irgendwie 'n Tic kommt und ich total überrascht bin, dass dieser Tic kam, sodass das wie 'n… Deswegen, ähm, gehe ich auch nicht ganz konform mit dem Begriff Schluckauf, weil Schluckauf wirklich 'n Reflex ist. Und für mich, in meinem persönlichen Empfinden, ist Tourette kein Reflex, sondern 'ne teilbewusste Handlung, würde ich das immer bezeichnen. Teilbewusst? Inwiefern teilbewusst? Ähm, ich merke, wenn sich der Tic anbahnt. Also hast du das Wort schon im Kopf? Ich habe das Wort im Kopf, die Worte oder die Tics, also jeden einzelnen Tic oder auch motorische Tics, die Bewegung, dass ich das jetzt machen muss. Das bahnt sich vorher an und ich weiß, was jetzt kommt. Okay. Ich kann's dann nur nicht, nicht, nicht wegsteuern. Ja. Ähm, also beim Schluckauf ist es ja so, dass der Schluckauf kommt und du, du gar nicht damit gerechnet hast. Ja, ja. Aber das ist bei, bei meinem Tourette zumindest ist das anders. Also deswegen nenne ich das jetzt, also ich weiß nicht, ob das das richtige Wort ist, aber ich nenn's einfach mal teilbewusst. Ja. Ähm, das ist schon 'ne Handlung, also 'n Drang, der sich aufbaut und dem ich dann nachgebe irgendwann. Also ich spreche jetzt natürlich die ganze Zeit nur aus meinem persönlichen Empfinden. Andere Leute empfinden das wahrscheinlich, andere Betroffene empfinden das vielleicht auch ganz anders. Ähm, ich will auch keine allgemeingültigen Dinge jetzt- Wie du sagst, jeder Tourette ist anders, ne? Jedes Tourette ist anders, genau. Und das ist, wie gesagt, was ich hier erzähle, ist wirklich nur mein Empfinden. Wenn du so die, deine Biografie anschaust, was war so die schwierigste Zeit? Also ich würde jetzt denken, so Pubertät, junge Erwachsenenalter. Nein, Kindheit und Jugend tatsächlich, weil, ähm, ich eben auch schwere Probleme im Elternhaus hatte. Ähm, meine Eltern waren nicht in der Lage, für sich wahrscheinlich das zu verstehen und damit umzugehen. Und das sorgte dafür, dass dann sehr häufig der Haussegen schief hing, ähm, und ich dann auch mit 16 bereits ausgezogen bin in eine, in eine Jugendwohnung. Mhm. Du hast ja gesagt, Nackenschläge. Was sind noch so Nackenschläge? Also du hast ja schon ein bisschen erzählt, Schulzeit. Nein, das Schulmobbing, dann, ähm, die Situation, nein, dass ich im Arbeitsleben nicht so Fuß fassen konnte, wie ich das wollte, weil ich eben mit meinem Problem zu sehr beschäftigt war, ähm, um mit Selbstvertrauen 'n Berufsleben zu führen. Du hast Erzieher gelernt. Hast du auch als Erzieher gearbeitet, oder? Ein bisschen, ja. Und, ähm, da ist es auch nicht so gewesen, dass mein Tourette das Problem war. Ich war in der offenen Jugendarbeit tätig und der größte Teil der Jugendlichen, ähm, hat das auch akzeptiert und empathisch sich verhalten. Gab natürlich immer so diese Ausreißer, die dann versucht haben, mich an den verwundbaren Stellen zu treffen, was auch schwierig war. Aber ich glaub, die Depressionen waren eher der Grund, weshalb, weshalb's nicht weiterging, ähm, und möglicherweise auch dieses jetzt erst diagnostizierte ADHS. ADHS hat man ja nicht irgendwie, das kriegt man ja nicht irgendwann eigentlich, sondern es ist ja eigentlich schon immer da. Aber ich weiß es, ich weiß jetzt erst seit Kurzem, dass ich's habe. Wie war denn das, als du mit 13 die Diagnose bekommen hast, es ist Tourette? Nein. Warst du da froh, dass es jetzt 'n Namen hat, dass du dir das erklären konntest, dass du endlich naschen durftest? Oder wie war das? Äh, beides. Also einerseits war's so, das Kind hat endlich 'n Namen und ich wusste, dass ich nicht völlig bekloppt war und nicht allein bin damit, dass es, dass es tatsächlich ein Krankheitsbild gibt und andere Menschen, die das hatten oder haben. Das war schon auf eine gewisse Weise 'ne Erleichterung, aber auf 'ne andere Weise hat sich eben in meinem Umfeld nichts geändert. Also zu Hause und in der Schule war's trotzdem immer noch problematisch. Das hat sich nicht geändert und bis zu meinem sechzehnten Lebensjahr dann eben auch stetig verschlimmert weiterhin. Aber wenn du sagst, wenn du jetzt jemandem schreibst, ne, dass du, ähm, Tourette hast, dass die dann sich auch gleich zurückziehen, hat sich ja so ganz, ganz viel dann irgendwie doch nicht verändert, oder? Es wird auf jeden Fall akzeptiert und ja einigermaßen verständnisvoll damit umgegangen. Also die Leute bedanken sich dann für die Offenheit, aber sagen dann auch, sie, sie können das für sich nicht vereinbaren. Okay. Wo, wo sie dann auch wirklich offenbaren, dass der Fehler gar nicht bei mir liegt, sondern bei ihnen. Und damals war's eben so, der Fehler lag wirklich bei mir. Ja, okay. Und das wurde mir dann auch so vermittelt. Wie ist es für dich in der Öffentlichkeit? Was erlebst du? Ist es für dich 'ne unangenehme Situation, oder? Ja, es ist schon unangenehm. Also es hat sich inzwischen so weit verbessert, dass ich, ähm, in der Lage bin, die Tics so 'n bisschen runterzukühlen und teilweise auch zu unterdrücken. Aber ich steh schon immer unter einem gewissen Druck. Mhm. Das ist immer schon nicht so leicht. Und, ähm, wenn du sagst, das ist schon so 'n Druckgefühl, macht der Druck dann wiederum auch was mit den Tics? Ja, der, der, der Drang verstärkt sich, weil ich eben mit den Gedanken immer bei dem Tic bin. Also es ist ja auch so, wenn ich, wenn ich auf etwas konzentriert bin, dann passiert es durchaus auch mal zwischendurch, dass ich die, dass ich die Tics vergesse und dann auch minutenlang dann manchmal ticfrei bin. Ja. Also wenn ich wirklich in einer Arbeit voll aufgehe, was mit meinem ADHS und so natürlich selten passiert, aber wenn ich wirklich konzentriert bin, dann macht das, macht das schon, reguliert das die Tics runter. Ja. Und wenn ich eben viel dran denke, was eben in der Öffentlichkeit eigentlich ständig der Fall ist, dann spür ich schon verstärkten Druck, ja. Kommen wir ganz nach hinten? Ja. Ja. Ja. Nee. Triggert es, triggert es dich auch, in eine Bahn reinzusteigen? Das triggert mich auch, ja genau. Ja. Ist nicht ganz einfach. Ähm, und ich neig auch dazu, irgendwie wenn die Bahn leer ist, mehr zu ticken, als wenn sie voll ist. Wie anstrengend ist denn das Unterdrücken? Och, doch schon. Also es macht, gibt halt inneren Druck, ähm, man fühlt sich halt ziemlich unfrei irgendwie so, so und das ist dann, ja, Unwohlsein würde ich jetzt eher mit, mit Übelkeit und so ver-verbinden, aber das ist es nicht. Sondern so, so 'n wirklich so 'n innerer Druck. Ähm. Und so anstrengend, dass du dann nach dem- Man fühlt sich eingeengt. Ja. Genau. Und so, dass du dann k.o. bist, wenn du dann so 'ne Fahrt gemacht hast? Oh ja, wenn ich so, wenn ich wirklich irgendwie acht Stunden oder so mit der Bahn gefahren bin, dann kannst mich abends in der Pfeife rauchen. Echt, dann bin ich wirklich, dass ich dann auch nichts mehr dann, nichts Großes mehr mache. Kannst du das beschreiben, wie man unterdrückt? Gibt's da irgendwie was, wie man sich das vorstellen kann? Ich versuch zum Beispiel, manchmal ist es ja auch so, dass ich meine Tics, dass ich dann so, was sich anhört wie Selbstgespräche, dass ich dann sitze und, und irgendwie so vor mich hin mummel. Ja. Ähm, so was versuche ich zum Beispiel zu verhindern, indem ich bewusst den Mund geschlossen halte. Ja. So was, was mir auch nicht immer gelingt, aber teilweise eben schon. Also auch da hab ich so gewisse Strategien, ähm, um, um mich zu unterdrücken. Außerdem versuche ich mich dann, wenn's zu, der Druck ist, Augen schließen oder auf die Musik zu achten. Gibt's auch Tage, wo du keine Tics hast? Nee. Nee? Also gar nicht. Okay. Es gibt Tage, wo ich mich besser fühle und entspannter, weniger Tics habe. Es gibt Tage, wo ich total viele Tics hab. Das kann auch manchmal von Tag zu Tag wechseln, aber ticfrei bin ich nie. Und so Phasen, die einfach viel, viel weniger sind. Kannst du das 'n bisschen verknüpfen mit irgendwas? Frisch verliebt und dann gibt's, ist es weniger oder so? Also das mit dem frisch verliebt, da sagst du was. Also wenn ich wirklich mich gut fühle, zum Beispiel irgendwie kuscheln oder, oder solche Sachen, dann, dann gehen die Tics tatsächlich signifikant runter. Ja. Auch Hunde haben dann so 'ne therapeutische Wirk-Wirkung auf mich. Also so, wenn ich mich einfach wirklich entspannt und gut fühle und auch das Gefühl hab, jetzt kann's, jetzt könntest du richtig ticken und keinen würde es interessieren, dann gehen die Tics runter. Aber dann, wenn es wieder stören würde und interessieren würde- Machst du deine Tics. Dann geht's wieder los. Du hast nun gesagt, so im Alltag kann es besser werden. Wünschst du dir, dass es besser wird? Ich glaub, ich wär nicht der Mensch, der ich jetzt bin ohne mein Tourette. Ich weiß nicht, ob ich vielleicht, ähm, wenn ich diese Probleme nicht hätte, ob ich dann vielleicht 'n oberflächlicher Mensch wäre, der, der selber von Vorurteilen gebeutelt ist oder so. Und deswegen ist es so, dass es vielleicht auch 'n positiven Aspekt hat, Tourette zu haben. Und was wünschst du dir so für die Zukunft? Dass die Menschen noch mehr Verständnis haben, dass sie vielleicht 'n Medikament finden, was wirklich die Tics komplett unterdrückt, oder? Der absolut über allem stehende Wunsch ist, dass, dass irgendwann das Tourette-Syndrom komplett geheilt werden kann. Also dass ausgemerzt sozusagen. Ähm, was jetzt im Moment auf jeden Fall unrealistisch erscheint. Was ich fast noch wichtiger finde als die Behandlung, ist die Sensibilisierung in der Öffentlichkeit, in der Gesellschaft. Dass das Tourette, wenn es nicht geheilt werden kann, dass es irgendwann egal wird, weil, weil es 'ne Normalität annimmt, ähm, und niemanden mehr wirklich interessiert. Mhm. Das wäre schon 'n Wunsch für mich. Mhm. Und was wünschst du dir für dich? Ankommen wäre gut. Also in einer Wohnung, wo ich mich wohlfühle, in einer Beziehung, in der ich mich wohlfühle, vielleicht auch mit einer Arbeit, wo ich mich wohlfühle. Dass so, dass es so 'n stimmiges Gesamtpaket wird. Mhm. Das, das würde ich mir für mich konkret wünschen, ja. Das wünsch ich dir auch. Danke schön. 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