diff --git "a/data/oAKYAzIoXZ8_001/metadata.json" "b/data/oAKYAzIoXZ8_001/metadata.json" new file mode 100644--- /dev/null +++ "b/data/oAKYAzIoXZ8_001/metadata.json" @@ -0,0 +1,77166 @@ +{ + "sample_id": "oAKYAzIoXZ8_001", + "video_id": "oAKYAzIoXZ8", + "video_title": "Driven by compulsions: Check and repeat | no stigma!", + "chapter_title": "Judith's Story", + "chapter_start_sec": 110.0, + "chapter_end_sec": 1549.0, + "audio_file": "001 Judith's Story.mp3", + "srt_file": "001 Judith's Story.srt", + "language_code": "de", + "diarize": true, + "elevenlabs_model_id": "scribe_v2", + "created_at_utc": "2026-03-25T16:26:17.318254+00:00", + "transcript_text": "Du hast ja relativ lang überlegt, ob du das machen sollst oder nicht. Warum wolltest du's gerne machen? Warum wär dir das wichtig? Genau, ja, denn ich bin schon länger Mitglied in dem Verein, der die Selbsthilfegruppe anbietet. Und deine Mail hat mich sehr angesprochen, ähm, weil du dort ja auch geschrieben hast, dass es um das Thema Entstigmatisierung von psychischen Erkrankungen geht. Und da das genau das Thema ist, was mich die letzten, ja, drei Jahre sehr stark beschäftigt hat, ähm, hab ich dann irgendwie so 'n inneren Drang oder Willen gespürt, dass ich so gerne auch anderen Mut machen würde, weil ich diesen Weg der Entstigmatisierung beziehungsweise dass ich mich in meinem Umfeld, in meinem privaten Umfeld öffne mit meiner Erkrankung, den bin ich die letzten drei Jahre gegangen und, ähm, mir geht es seitdem sehr viel besser. Aber jetzt erst mal, wenn du sagst, du hast vor drei Jahren dich geöffnet. So dein engstes Umfeld, deine Eltern und so, die wussten das schon, ne? Ähm, genau, also meine Eltern und meine Schwester, die wussten das immer und auch mein damaliger Partner, mit dem ich mehrere Jahre zusammen war. Weil auch wenn man so 'ne Beziehung führt, kann man das eben sehr schwer auf Dauer unterdrücken oder, sag ich mal, geheim halten. Aber sonst, ähm, wussten das nur ganz, ganz vereinzelt Leute, die während schweren Episoden in Situationen, wo ich's gar nicht kontrollieren konnte und, ähm, in denen's mir dann irgendwie sehr schlecht ging und komplett offen hab ich darüber halt nur mit meinen Eltern und meiner Schwester gesprochen. Das fand ich total überraschend, als du das erzählt hast, weil ich gar nicht gedacht hätte, dass man das so gut verheimlichen kann. Wenn ich da drüber nachdenke, auch an früher, als es angefangen hat, ich glaub, ich hab von Anfang an gelernt, ja, das klingt so blöd, aber so 'n Doppelleben zu führen. Ich hab immer in mir den Kampf mit der Erkrankung, mit den Zwängen gekämpft und nach außen hab ich immer versucht, die Normalität aufrechtzuerhalten und, ja, normal gesund zu wirken. Also jetzt so 'n Zwangsgedanken, das, das versteh ich, ne. Den kann man ja wahrscheinlich, also da kann ja keiner in Kopf gucken. Aber jetzt die anderen Sachen, du hast mal erzählt, du musstest immer über Türschwellen gehen zum Beispiel 'ne Zeit lang. Zwänge können ja ganz verschiedene Gesichter haben. Also man sagt immer, es gibt das, äh, Märchenland des Zwanges. Ähm, das hatte ich neulich mal in 'nem Podcast gehört. Und im Märchenland des Zwanges, ähm, ist praktisch alles möglich. Das fand ich sehr gut veranschaulicht, auch für Leute, die keine Zwänge haben. Weil es gibt gefühlt nichts, worüber man keine Zwangsgedanken haben kann. Also die haben ganz, ganz viele Gesichter und, ähm, ich hab die Zwangserkrankung ja jetzt seit meinem siebten Lebensjahr und seitdem war, hatte ich eben auch viele schwere Episoden und dann aber auch Episoden, in denen es mir sehr gut ging, in denen die Zwänge total in den Hintergrund gerückt sind. Und in jeder schwierigen Episode, die kam, hatte ich auch neue Zwangsthemen. Also mein Zwang hat sich immer stetig verändert. Ich hab in den schweren Episoden auch immer Therapien gemacht und hab, äh, ja, einfach auch viel ambulante Therapieerfahrung als, äh, Jugendliche und junge Erwachsene gehabt. Nach 'ner abgeschlossenen Therapie ging's mir eigentlich dann immer besser und ich war stabilisiert. Und in der nächsten Episode, ja, kam der Zwang dann mit irgend'nem anderen Thema um die Ecke. Aber war's so, dass du das, ähm, zu Hause hast du das dann quasi ausgelebt und draußen hast du dann ganz viel Kraft aufgebracht, um das dir, dir zu verkneifen? Teilweise finden Zwänge ja auch im Kopf statt. Also wenn man jetzt in der Schule oder sonst wo ist, dann ist es auch nicht gesagt, dass es, ähm, jetzt einem immer anzusehen ist. Ähm, und ich hab das halt eben einfach dann immer versucht, auch wenn das Handlungszwänge waren, die man klar sieht, aber die dann einfach in Momenten zu machen, wo grad niemand hinguckt oder mir die aufzusparen teilweise auch. Dieses, okay, ich kann das jetzt nicht machen, dann mach ich das später zu Hause. Dann eben vor drei Jahren hat das angefangen, hat der Zwang sich angefangen, wieder so langsam anzuschleichen. Und das hab ich eben gemerkt und ich hab natürlich dann auch erst mal versucht, laut meinem Motto, nach außen funktionieren, ähm, alles aufrechtzuerhalten. Hab dann aber gemerkt, dass das auf Dauer nicht funktioniert. Und ich war damals auch noch nicht bereit, wieder in Therapie zu gehen, weil ich mir auch gesagt hab, ich, äh, möchte nicht wieder in diesen Strudel reinkommen, was jetzt rückblickend gesehen auch total falsch war. Aber ich hatte vorher 'ne lange, gesunde Episode und wollte, wollte nicht wieder, ja, in diesen Strudel reinkommen und alles aufreißen. Und dann war für mich irgendwie die Lösung, dass ich stattdessen das ergreife und mich öffne meinem Umfeld, weil ich's einfach nicht mehr schaffe, diese hohe Funktionalität aufrechtzuerhalten. Und das war eine Riesenerlösung, als ich dann angefangen hab, da drüber zu reden. Und ich hab das dann auch relativ radikal entschieden. Die Umsetzung war dann auch, ja, ziemlich straight und radikal. Ich hab dann eigentlich ja in den laufenden Wochen und Monaten danach allen Freunden und auch Familienmitgliedern, die ich, äh, zu denen ich da 'n Kontakt hatte, immer im Kontakt dann eben das auch erzählt und praktisch jeden Kontakt genutzt, um, um, um mich da zu öffnen und hab auch gesagt: \"Ja, jetzt, äh, ich möchte einfach nicht mehr damit alleine sein und ich möchte nicht mehr diese zwei Kämpfe kämpfen, sondern der Kampf mit den Zwängen, der ist schon schlimm genug.\" Wenn ich so dadrüber nachdenke, klar kannten mich alle vorher auch und ich war die gleiche Judith, aber die kannten nicht alle Facetten und es fühlt sich richtig gut an, jetzt einfach mit allen Facetten von mir ich selber sein zu können. Wie ging das denn los? Du hast gesagt, mit sieben hat es angefangen. Was, was war da? Genau mit sieben Jahren, als ich abends immer ins Bett gegangen bin, da hat das angefangen mit den Zwängen. Und ich weiß noch ganz genau, dass ich damals überhaupt nicht wusste, was mit mir los ist. Weil bevor man so 'n, so 'ne Zwangshandlung ausführt, ist da ja erst mal ganz viel Angst. Und ich weiß noch damals, dass ich ganz, ganz viel Angst verspürt hab und diesen Drang hatte, bestimmte Dinge zu tun, um meine Angst zu lindern. Ich hatte ganz ritualisierte Vorgänge, ähm, vorm Schlafengehen. Also dass, ähm, auf meinem Schreibtisch alle Gegenstände ganz, ganz genau, ähm, symmetrisch in rechten Winkeln liegen müssen. Dass jedes, jede Sache auf dem Schreibtisch seinen eigenen Platz hatte, weil ich hab aus meinem Bett meinen Schreibtisch gesehen. Und dann auch, dass in meinem Bett alles ganz genau geordnet ist. Also hinten, ähm, am Ende des Bettes musste die Bettdecke auf 'ne bestimmte Art und Weise, die wahrscheinlich Leute, die es nicht haben, nicht verstehen. Also es macht keinen Sinn, aber auf meine Art und Weise musste die Bettdecke da liegen, alle Kissen und Kuscheltiere positioniert sein in meinem Bett. Ich glaube natürlich, das ist so was, was auch alle Menschen kennen, dass Dinge ihren Platz haben. Aber was dann eben der Unterschied war, dass ich, ähm, dass ich dasFünf, sechs, sieben, irgendwann zehn Mal wiederholt, hab immer wieder aus dem Bett aufgestanden, bin wieder gucken muss, ob alles gerade liegt auf meinem Schreibtisch am Ende meines Bettes. Und dass ich praktisch immer wieder diesen inneren Drang hatte, das noch mal zu kontrollieren und noch mal und noch mal und noch mal. Dann hat sich das immer über immer mehr Bereiche meines Alltags gezogen. Also Zähneputzen morgens und abends, wie ich mich, die Art, wie ich mich anziehe, in welcher Reihenfolge, die Art, wie ich überhaupt Dinge mache am Tag, morgens und abends. Und irgendwann hat es sich dann eben auch auf die Schule ausgewirkt. Da hatte ich auch ganz, ganz genaue Vorstellungen, wie ich was machen musste. Hab Sachen unendlich oft geschrieben und wieder zerrissen, weil die ganz perfekt aussehen mussten oder weil die, weil irgendwas, irgendwas nicht gestimmt hat, sich nicht richtig angefühlt hat. Und natürlich haben das dann auch irgendwann, ähm, meine Eltern mitbekommen und, ähm, die waren zum Glück auch total sensibilisiert für das Thema und sind dann eben auch schon ganz, ganz früh mit mir, ähm, zu einer Therapeutin gegangen. Und du sagst erst mal, das Gefühl ist Angst. Man spürt Angst, bevor man so eine- Genau ... Zwangshandlung durchführt? Also genau, es ist immer eigentlich so, als Erstes steht der Zwangsgedanke, 'ne Angst oder, also es kann unterschiedliche, es können unterschiedliche Dinge sein: Angst, Schuldgefühl, Scham. Einfach so ein Gefühl, auch so eine innere Anspannung, die sich dann aufbaut und die halt unglaublich hoch wird. Also dein Körper ist dann oder mein Kopf ist in Alarmbereitschaft. Und jetzt in dem Beispiel, als ich klein war, war das einfach so 'ne Angst und so 'ne innere Anspannung, dass ich dachte, es passiert irgendwas Schlimmes, wenn ich das nicht tue. Wenn die Gegenstände nicht gerade liegen, wenn meine Decke nicht glatt liegt, ähm, dann passiert was Schlimmes. Und dann hat sich das auch mit den Jahren immer mehr konkretisiert, dass ich, äh, dann wirklich ganz konkrete Vorstellungen hab, wenn ich das und das nicht mache oder nicht richtig, nicht richtig mache, dann passiert meiner Familie was Schlimmes, dann passiert mir was Schlimmes. Ist das irgendwie stressgebunden, dass du, wenn, wenn's irgendwie anstrengende Phasen waren, dass es das eher gab? Oder gibt's da irgendeinen Zusammenhang mit irgendwelchen anderen Ereignissen im Leben? Mh, genau, also ich bin, ähm, rein familiär auch genetisch prädisponiert und bei mir ging oder kam dieser Ausbruch dann, als ich, wenn ich so zurückdenke, als ich in der Schule war. Ähm, und ich verbinde das heute eben viel auch mit diesem Eintritt in die Schule, Eintritt in die Leistungsgesellschaft, unterbewussten Druck, den ich wahrscheinlich verspürt hab, den ich mir immer nur selber gemacht hab. Also durch, durch meine perfektionistische Veranlagung hab ich mir immer extrem viel Druck gemacht. Ich sag mal, diese Neigung, die kann sich ja in der Schule, wenn man dann in der Schule ist, ja auch besser entfalten durch das ganze Konstrukt Schule, Lernen, äh, Leistungsgesellschaft, ähm, als jetzt vorher im Kindergarten zum Beispiel. Durch den Klinikaufenthalt, ähm, den ich gemacht hatte, ähm, und wo ich das erste Mal auch sehr intensiv mit anderen Patienten, die auch Zwänge haben, in Berührung gekommen bin und mich austauschen konnte, ähm, habe ich gemerkt, dass es auch viele Menschen gibt, die das, sage ich mal, das gleiche Zwangsthema haben, was sich so durchzieht. Und bei mir ist es eben so, die Themen haben sich irgendwie die Hand gegeben. Ich hab in jeder Episode, ähm, hatte ich bestimmte Zwänge in einem bestimmten Bereich und ich hab auch in jeder Episode 'ne Therapie gemacht. Nach jeder abgeschlossenen Therapie ging es mir dann erst mal besser und irgendwann kam der Zwang zurück, aber mit neuem Gesicht. Mit dass die Themen sich die Hand gegeben haben, meine ich, dann kam irgendwann, hat sich, hat sich ein neuer Zwang angeschlichen, aber eben einer, den ich überhaupt nicht kannte. Okay, aber du meinst, wenn du dich mit bestimmten Themen auf einmal intensiver befasst hast, dann wusstest du nicht, ob es gerade ein Thema ist, was dich umtreibt, oder ob das so was Zwanghaftes hat, sich damit zu beschäftigen? Genau. Okay. Also einen Zwang erkennt man ja daran oder der Grundgedanke von Zwängen, das sind, glaube ich, Gedanken, die alle Menschen irgendwie kennen oder die allen Menschen schon mal in den Kopf geschossen sind. Aber der Unterschied, wenn du Zwänge hast, ist, dass du die anders bewertest. Also dass du so 'nen Gedanken nicht wieder ziehen lassen kannst, sondern dass du dem Bedeutung beimisst und anfängst, dadrüber nachzudenken und der Gedanke praktisch an dir haften bleibt und du nicht mehr davon loskommst. Bei Menschen mit Zwängen ist es so, dass, äh, sich die Zwänge immer auf die allerwichtigsten Bereiche in dei-deren Leben, ähm, beziehen und auch auf deren wichtigste Werte und Moralvorstellungen und Dinge, die ihnen am Herzen liegen. Diese Dinge, die einem die, einem die Zwänge einreden, dass das Dinge sind, die man niemals tun würde, die man niemals machen würde, die gegen alle eigenen Moral- und Wertevorstellungen gehen. Als ich Jugendliche war, ähm, wie gesagt, haben meine Zwänge sich dann mehr in meinem Kopf abgespielt und auch die, also die Zwangshandlungen in meinem Kopf mehr abgespielt. Ähm, und ich hab dann in, äh, ja, in dieser Phase, in der jugendlichen Phase, ähm, aggressive Zwangsgedanken entwickelt. Ich hatte dann immer ganz doll Angst vor gefährlichen Gegenständen, weil ich Angst hatte, dass ich damit jemanden verletzen könnte oder gefährden könnte. Das war auch immer in Situationen, in denen ich mit Menschen zusammen war, die mir eben ganz wichtig waren. Also wenn ich jetzt alleine Straßenbahn gefahren bin oder so, dann kamen mir die Zwangsgedanken eher weniger. Man hat deswegen halt auch so eine riesige, unvorstellbare Angst vor diesen Zwangsgedanken. Es war immer mein Wunsch, dass ich in der Therapie das vollkommen unter Kontrolle krieg und dass ich's dann irgendwann los bin. Das Ziel, komplett gesund zu werden und diese Gedanken komplett loszuwerden, ist ja super utopisch und ich kann ja nicht kontrollieren, was ich für Gedanken in meinem Kopf hab. Ich glaube, so der Knackpunkt ist, ähm, dass man oder dass ich mir jetzt heute nicht mehr wünsche, dass die Gedanken nicht mehr in meinem Kopf sind, dass die weg sind, sondern dass ich die einfach anders bewerte. Dass ich akzeptiere, dass die Gedanken kommen und da sind, aber dass ich ihnen keine Bedeutung mehr zumesse und versuche, sie ziehen zu lassen. Ich label ihn mit dem Stempel Zwangsgedanke, bewerte ihn nicht, akzeptiere ihn und dadurch-Kann ich ihn ziehen lassen. Und das ist die Strategie, die ich auch einfach ganz doll jetzt im Alltag anwende. Bei Sprudelwasser, da sprudeln ganz viele, hier sieht man das ganz gut, ganz viele Blubberbläschen nach oben und das sind alles Gedanken und könnten alles Zwangsgedanken sein und man lässt sie nach oben blubbern und oben zerplatzen sie dann. So stelle ich mir das auch immer vor, dass meine Gedanken nach oben blubbern und dann irgendwann zerplatzen, wenn ich ihnen keine Bedeutung beimesse. Das ist ja der Klassiker zu Hause. Kennst du das auch, dass man noch mal zurückgeht und noch mal beim Herd guckt? Ja, genau. Kontrollzwänge hatte ich auch, äh, ganz doll eben beim Herd, bei den Wasserhähnen, dass die Fenster zu sind, ob die Heizungen aus sind. Und ich glaub, das sind auch so Gedanken, die hat eben jeder Mensch. Je-- Also jeder, das ist ja auch verständlich, wenn man aus dem Haus geht, dass man sich kurz überlegt: \"Hab ich den Herd ausgemacht?\" Erster Schritt ist dann eben auch bei mir immer, dass ich zurückgehe und kontrolliere und das nimmt dann irgendwann halt so ein Ausmaß an oder hat so ein Ausmaß angenommen, dass ich, keine Ahnung, zehn, fünfzehn Mal zurück in die Wohnung bin, um zu kontrollieren. Und wenn ich dann irgendwann mich losgerissen hab und gegangen bin, dann ist es oft in mentale Handlungen übergegangen, dass ich mir dann noch mal vorstelle: \"Ah, ich hab heute Morgen, als ich den Herd benutzt hab, ihn ausgedreht\", und mir das dann zum Beispiel bildlich vorgestellt hab, wie ich den Herdschalter ausgemacht hab. Und da, das hab ich halt nicht nur mit dem Herd, das hatte ich mit zig Sachen. Das heißt, äh, es dauert, hat in der Zeit, als ich diese Zwänge hatte, auch einfach superlang gedauert, bis ich überhaupt mal das Haus verlassen konnte. Das führt eben auch dann in gewisser Weise irgendwann auch zu Vermeidungsverhalten. Also das ist ja auch ganz klassisch bei Leuten, die Zwänge haben, dass man guckt, dass man vielleicht weniger das Haus verlassen muss, weil man weiß, was das für ein Riesenact ist. Waschzwänge sind so ein großes Thema, was mich nie, worauf sich nie mein Zwang geschmissen hat. Ich hab keine Ahnung, warum sich mein Zwang bestimmte Themen schnappt oder nicht schnappt. Ähm, ich weiß es nicht und Waschzwänge zum Beispiel ist ja auch was ganz Typisches. Mhm. Aber das hat, hat mich nie, hat meinen Zwang nie interessiert. Wie gesagt, als Kind, äh, hatte ich viel so Kontroll- und Ordnungszwänge. Als ich dann älter wurde, ist das übergegangen in, ähm, in aggressive Zwangsgedanken. Ein Thema False Memory OCD hatte ich auch eben. Da, da beziehen sich dann diese ganzen Grübeleien auf wann hat man was wie gemacht, ähm, weil ich ganz oft dann auch, ähm, ja Angst hatte, dass ich mich nicht mehr richtig erinnere, ähm, wie zum Beispiel in solchen Situationen. Also dass ich dann praktisch das auf meine Zwänge draufgesetzt hat, dass, dass ich aggressive Zwangsgedanken hatte oder moralische Zwangsgedanken, dass ich dachte, ich hab mich irgendwo falsch verhalten. Dann durch 'ne Zwangshandlung überprüfe ich das im Kopf zum Beispiel, ähm, oder, oder eben auch, ja, wie 'ne Handlung auch beim Kontrollieren, wenn ich den Herd kontrolliere. Dann, wenn man aus der Situation raus ist, kommt aber wieder ein Zwang bei mir, der mir dann sagt: \"Vielleicht erinnerst du dich falsch.\" Wenn man Zwänge hat, dann sucht man immer nach hundertprozentiger Sicherheit und man hat niemals hundertprozentige Sicherheit. Und wer ist Oscar? Genau, das ist mein Zwang. Ich hab meinen Zwang irgendwann personifiziert sozusagen als Tier. Das hab ich mal in der Therapie, ähm, kam das mal als Beispiel, dass man sich einen Zwang als, äh, kreischende, ekelige Straßenkatze vorstellen kann, die an deine Tür kratzt und, äh, sagt: \"Ich will Milch, ich hab Hunger.\" Und am Anfang machst du die Tür noch nicht auf und lässt die Katze einfach kratzen und da sein. Und dann vielleicht beim zigten Mal, wenn sie sich meldet, gibst du irgendwann nach und sagst: \"Ja, okay, hier ist ein bisschen Milch.\" Und dann kommt sie natürlich noch öfter wieder. Dann gibst du ihr noch öfter Milch, fütterst sie immer mehr und umso mehr du sie fütterst, umso anhänglicher und haftender wird sie und fühlt sich natürlich irgendwann pudelwohl bei dir. Ähm, genau und so funktionieren auch Zwänge. Und denn magst du deinen Oscar oder magst ihn nicht? Ja, also m-mein Oscar erinnert mich einfach immer daran, ähm, das wurde auch in der Therapie eben so gesagt: \"Füttern Sie die Katze nicht.\" Und immer wenn ich den angucke, denke ich mir, äh- Du kriegst nichts. Ja, ich fütter die Katze nicht, ich fütter Oscar nicht. Mein Zwang hat mir das Gefühl gegeben, ich kann nur alles falsch machen. Es ist nie gut genug. Ich bin nie gut genug für andere, weil ich immer irgendwo Fehler mache. Und, äh, das ist eben irgendwann so, so schlimm geworden, dass ich in jeglichen sozialen Interaktionen immer das Gefühl hatte, ich kann einfach nicht gut genug sein. Ich wusste damals auch schon, dass ich, äh, in Begleitung zu meinen Zwängen auch 'ne Depression habe, die einfach mit den Zwängen einhergeht. Dann hab ich das damals, ähm, dank einer Studie, an der ich teilgenommen hab für ein neues Behandlungsverfahren für Menschen mit Zwangserkrankungen. Bei dieser Studie hab ich das dank einer Therapeutin rausgefunden und durch die Gespräche mit der Therapeutin dort ist mir dann erst so richtig bewusst geworden, dass ich einfach immer hundert Prozent sichergehen will, dass ich kein schlechter Mensch bin und dass ich niemandem emotional Schaden zufüge. Hab auch geschafft, alleine da dran weiterzuarbeiten, aber eben nur 'ne gewisse Zeit. Und dann ist dieser Zwang auch wieder so viel größer geworden, ähm, und ich hab's einfach im Alltag, ähm, dann irgendwann nicht mehr geschafft, diesen Höhenflug von der Studie weiter mitzunehmen. Sonnig. Und wir sind jetzt hier auf deiner Lieblingsbank, oder? Ja, genau. Ähm, der Park hier ist ganz in der Nähe von meiner Wohnung. Vor allem im letzten Jahr, als es mir mit den Zwängen und der Depression sehr schlecht ging, war zum einen meine Wohnung so ein absoluter Safe Space für mich und aber auch hier dieser Park und diese Bank. Also ich hab hier einfach auch unfassbar viel Zeit verbracht. Ende letzten Jahres bin ich dann noch mal in die Klinik gegangen, weil es einfach zu Hause nicht mehr ging, weil einfach mein, mein ganzer Tag so bestimmt war von meinem-Von der Welt in meinem Kopf und meinen Zwangsgedanken. Und dass du sagst, das hat dir sehr geholfen. Ja, es hat mir sehr geholfen. Ich glaube, durch dieses stationäre Setting und dass ich mich wirklich in der Zeit voll und ganz auf die Behandlung meiner Zwänge konzentriert hab und diese anderen Alltagsaufgaben, die man hat und die ja auch einfach sehr schwerfallen, wenn's einem so schlecht geht, die sind da alle weggefallen und, ähm, ich hab einfach in der Klinik sehr, sehr intensiv Expositionen gemacht. Bei Exposition geht's darum, sich der Zwangs-, äh, und angstauslösenden Situation sozusagen auszusetzen, dass man diesem Drang dann nicht nachgeht und eben die, die Gefühle aushält, die man halt hat. Der Kopf lernt, ähm, dass es nicht- Passiert auch nicht. Es passiert nichts, genau. Es passiert nichts Schlimmes, es besteht keine Gefahr. Aber dafür ist es eben auch wichtig, dass man Expos hochfrequentiert und sehr viel auch macht. Kannst du 'n Beispiel nennen für so eine Exposition? Diese Ordnungszwänge und dass in meiner Wohnung jede Sache einen ganz bestimmten Platz hat, äh, die sind wir zum Beispiel angegangen in der Klinik. Ich musste dann eben während der Klinikzeit auch immer wieder Phasen zu Hause verbringen und dann meine Wohnung wirklich komplett unordentlich verwüsten. Also ein Zustand, der mich richtig, richtig erdrückt und den ich nur ganz, ganz schwer aushalten kann. Ja. Oder zum Beispiel, ich hab auch sehr starke Zwänge beim Lesen und Fernsehschauen, weil ich immer das Gefühl hab, ich muss alles richtig verstehen, also auf meine Art richtig. Mhm. Dass ich das Gefühl hab, ich hab wirklich jedes Detail verstanden. Und deswegen lese ich bei Büchern ganz oft Texte wieder und wieder nach. Und bei Filmen oder Serien ist es genauso, dass ich das ganz stark hab mit dem Zurückspulen- Mhm. -dass ich mir manche Szenen dann zehnmal anschaue, damit ich auch wirklich jedes Wort verstanden habe. Und jetzt ist es besser? Hältst du die Sachen jetzt besser aus beim zu Hause? Ja. Ja, auf jeden Fall. Also, ähm, die Klinik hat mir ganz, ganz viel geholfen und diese, diese hochfrequentierten Expositionen und ich wurde auch medikamentös, ähm, dort noch mal neu eingestellt. Mhm. Und jetzt, äh, im Moment bin ich, bin ich wirklich sehr stabil im Vergleich, äh, zu der Zeit vor ein paar Monaten. Das heißt, machst du jetzt auch dann regelmäßig Expos? Genau, also nicht natürlich bei Weitem nicht mehr so regelmäßig wie in der Klinik, sondern die Verantwortung liegt jetzt sozusagen bei mir, dass ich selber schaue, wann brauche ich Expos. Vielleicht so ein bis zwei mittlerweile in der Woche. Also am Anfang nach der Klinik war das noch deutlich mehr, aber es hat sich dann auch so stark verbessert mit den Wochen. Ja, du hast jetzt mit Yoga angefangen, aber mit anderen Sachen aufgehört. Warum, warum fühlt sich Yoga für dich anders an? Durch die Zwänge ist in meinem Kopf immer super, super viel los. Deswegen fällt es mir einfach extrem schwer, generell schon mich zu entspannen oder runterzukommen, weil ich in allen möglichen Situationen immer Zwänge hatte. Vor allem eben im letzten Jahr ist das ganz, ganz extrem geworden dann auch wieder, ja. Meine zwei Hobbys, die ich auch schon seit Jahren mache, Reiten und Stepptanzen, musste ich leider pausieren oder aussetzen. Bin dann auf Empfehlung meiner Therapeutin hier mal zu einer Yogaklasse gegangen. In der Yogastunde ist man natürlich auch mit vielen Leuten hier zusammen und der Raum ist voll. Aber, ähm, ich hab immer das Gefühl, wenn ich so meine Matte betrete, dass ich dann ganz ruhig werde und irgendwie in mich kehre und mich auf mich konzentrieren kann und dadurch eben sehr viel Ruhe finde. Und, äh, durch die Zwänge hat man ja auch gleichzeitig immer sehr starke Anspannungen und die merke ich auch immer total körperlich. Das ist auch was, was ich ganz, ganz krass beim Yoga spüre, dass ich im Laufe von so einer Yogastunde diese Anspannung total abbauen kann und loslassen kann und dass mein Körper und mein Geist eben zumindest für kurze Zeit mal ruhig sind und losgelassen. Was, was wünschst du dir so für deine Zukunft? Wie, wie soll's werden? Was malst du dir aus? Am allermeisten wünsche ich mir für die Zukunft, dass ich es einfach schaffe, ein selbstbestimmtes Leben zu führen. Und selbstbestimmt heißt für mich, dass der Zwang nicht mich an der Hand hat, sondern ich sag immer, dass ich den Zwang an der Hand hab. Mein Zwang hat sich auch die letzten Monate so angefühlt wie so 'n Riesenberg, der vor mir emporragt. Und ich dachte ja monatelang, ich, ich, ich schaff's einfach nicht. Ich kann den nicht erklimmen, ich schaff es nicht. Jetzt die letzte Zeit, vor allem auch in der Klinik, hab ich das Gefühl gehabt, dass ich diesen Berg Schritt für Schritt bestiegen hab, ganz kurz davor bin, da auch oben zu stehen. Und deswegen hab ich mir überlegt, dass ich auch das symbolisch gerne machen würde, dass ich, äh, gerne auf die Zugspitze steigen will dieses Jahr aus eigener Kraft. Da hätte ich dann auch gerne ein Bild von. Ja, auf jeden Fall. Vielen Dank, dass du uns von deinen, ja, Höhen und Tiefen erzählt hast. Ja, vielen Dank euch. Ich find das richtig toll, dass ihr diese Reihe macht. Ja. Ja. Oh, ich auch. Und jetzt frag ich mal die Yogalehrerin, wie man von hier nach oben kommt. Ja, sehr schön.", + "raw_asr_payload": { + "language_code": "deu", + "language_probability": 1.0, + "text": "Du hast ja relativ lang überlegt, ob du das machen sollst oder nicht. Warum wolltest du's gerne machen? Warum wär dir das wichtig? Genau, ja, denn ich bin schon länger Mitglied in dem Verein, der die Selbsthilfegruppe anbietet. Und deine Mail hat mich sehr angesprochen, ähm, weil du dort ja auch geschrieben hast, dass es um das Thema Entstigmatisierung von psychischen Erkrankungen geht. Und da das genau das Thema ist, was mich die letzten, ja, drei Jahre sehr stark beschäftigt hat, ähm, hab ich dann irgendwie so 'n inneren Drang oder Willen gespürt, dass ich so gerne auch anderen Mut machen würde, weil ich diesen Weg der Entstigmatisierung beziehungsweise dass ich mich in meinem Umfeld, in meinem privaten Umfeld öffne mit meiner Erkrankung, den bin ich die letzten drei Jahre gegangen und, ähm, mir geht es seitdem sehr viel besser. Aber jetzt erst mal, wenn du sagst, du hast vor drei Jahren dich geöffnet. So dein engstes Umfeld, deine Eltern und so, die wussten das schon, ne? Ähm, genau, also meine Eltern und meine Schwester, die wussten das immer und auch mein damaliger Partner, mit dem ich mehrere Jahre zusammen war. Weil auch wenn man so 'ne Beziehung führt, kann man das eben sehr schwer auf Dauer unterdrücken oder, sag ich mal, geheim halten. Aber sonst, ähm, wussten das nur ganz, ganz vereinzelt Leute, die während schweren Episoden in Situationen, wo ich's gar nicht kontrollieren konnte und, ähm, in denen's mir dann irgendwie sehr schlecht ging und komplett offen hab ich darüber halt nur mit meinen Eltern und meiner Schwester gesprochen. Das fand ich total überraschend, als du das erzählt hast, weil ich gar nicht gedacht hätte, dass man das so gut verheimlichen kann. Wenn ich da drüber nachdenke, auch an früher, als es angefangen hat, ich glaub, ich hab von Anfang an gelernt, ja, das klingt so blöd, aber so 'n Doppelleben zu führen. Ich hab immer in mir den Kampf mit der Erkrankung, mit den Zwängen gekämpft und nach außen hab ich immer versucht, die Normalität aufrechtzuerhalten und, ja, normal gesund zu wirken. Also jetzt so 'n Zwangsgedanken, das, das versteh ich, ne. Den kann man ja wahrscheinlich, also da kann ja keiner in Kopf gucken. Aber jetzt die anderen Sachen, du hast mal erzählt, du musstest immer über Türschwellen gehen zum Beispiel 'ne Zeit lang. Zwänge können ja ganz verschiedene Gesichter haben. Also man sagt immer, es gibt das, äh, Märchenland des Zwanges. Ähm, das hatte ich neulich mal in 'nem Podcast gehört. Und im Märchenland des Zwanges, ähm, ist praktisch alles möglich. Das fand ich sehr gut veranschaulicht, auch für Leute, die keine Zwänge haben. Weil es gibt gefühlt nichts, worüber man keine Zwangsgedanken haben kann. Also die haben ganz, ganz viele Gesichter und, ähm, ich hab die Zwangserkrankung ja jetzt seit meinem siebten Lebensjahr und seitdem war, hatte ich eben auch viele schwere Episoden und dann aber auch Episoden, in denen es mir sehr gut ging, in denen die Zwänge total in den Hintergrund gerückt sind. Und in jeder schwierigen Episode, die kam, hatte ich auch neue Zwangsthemen. Also mein Zwang hat sich immer stetig verändert. Ich hab in den schweren Episoden auch immer Therapien gemacht und hab, äh, ja, einfach auch viel ambulante Therapieerfahrung als, äh, Jugendliche und junge Erwachsene gehabt. Nach 'ner abgeschlossenen Therapie ging's mir eigentlich dann immer besser und ich war stabilisiert. Und in der nächsten Episode, ja, kam der Zwang dann mit irgend'nem anderen Thema um die Ecke. Aber war's so, dass du das, ähm, zu Hause hast du das dann quasi ausgelebt und draußen hast du dann ganz viel Kraft aufgebracht, um das dir, dir zu verkneifen? Teilweise finden Zwänge ja auch im Kopf statt. Also wenn man jetzt in der Schule oder sonst wo ist, dann ist es auch nicht gesagt, dass es, ähm, jetzt einem immer anzusehen ist. Ähm, und ich hab das halt eben einfach dann immer versucht, auch wenn das Handlungszwänge waren, die man klar sieht, aber die dann einfach in Momenten zu machen, wo grad niemand hinguckt oder mir die aufzusparen teilweise auch. Dieses, okay, ich kann das jetzt nicht machen, dann mach ich das später zu Hause. Dann eben vor drei Jahren hat das angefangen, hat der Zwang sich angefangen, wieder so langsam anzuschleichen. Und das hab ich eben gemerkt und ich hab natürlich dann auch erst mal versucht, laut meinem Motto, nach außen funktionieren, ähm, alles aufrechtzuerhalten. Hab dann aber gemerkt, dass das auf Dauer nicht funktioniert. Und ich war damals auch noch nicht bereit, wieder in Therapie zu gehen, weil ich mir auch gesagt hab, ich, äh, möchte nicht wieder in diesen Strudel reinkommen, was jetzt rückblickend gesehen auch total falsch war. Aber ich hatte vorher 'ne lange, gesunde Episode und wollte, wollte nicht wieder, ja, in diesen Strudel reinkommen und alles aufreißen. Und dann war für mich irgendwie die Lösung, dass ich stattdessen das ergreife und mich öffne meinem Umfeld, weil ich's einfach nicht mehr schaffe, diese hohe Funktionalität aufrechtzuerhalten. Und das war eine Riesenerlösung, als ich dann angefangen hab, da drüber zu reden. Und ich hab das dann auch relativ radikal entschieden. Die Umsetzung war dann auch, ja, ziemlich straight und radikal. Ich hab dann eigentlich ja in den laufenden Wochen und Monaten danach allen Freunden und auch Familienmitgliedern, die ich, äh, zu denen ich da 'n Kontakt hatte, immer im Kontakt dann eben das auch erzählt und praktisch jeden Kontakt genutzt, um, um, um mich da zu öffnen und hab auch gesagt: \"Ja, jetzt, äh, ich möchte einfach nicht mehr damit alleine sein und ich möchte nicht mehr diese zwei Kämpfe kämpfen, sondern der Kampf mit den Zwängen, der ist schon schlimm genug.\" Wenn ich so dadrüber nachdenke, klar kannten mich alle vorher auch und ich war die gleiche Judith, aber die kannten nicht alle Facetten und es fühlt sich richtig gut an, jetzt einfach mit allen Facetten von mir ich selber sein zu können. Wie ging das denn los? Du hast gesagt, mit sieben hat es angefangen. Was, was war da? Genau mit sieben Jahren, als ich abends immer ins Bett gegangen bin, da hat das angefangen mit den Zwängen. Und ich weiß noch ganz genau, dass ich damals überhaupt nicht wusste, was mit mir los ist. Weil bevor man so 'n, so 'ne Zwangshandlung ausführt, ist da ja erst mal ganz viel Angst. Und ich weiß noch damals, dass ich ganz, ganz viel Angst verspürt hab und diesen Drang hatte, bestimmte Dinge zu tun, um meine Angst zu lindern. Ich hatte ganz ritualisierte Vorgänge, ähm, vorm Schlafengehen. Also dass, ähm, auf meinem Schreibtisch alle Gegenstände ganz, ganz genau, ähm, symmetrisch in rechten Winkeln liegen müssen. Dass jedes, jede Sache auf dem Schreibtisch seinen eigenen Platz hatte, weil ich hab aus meinem Bett meinen Schreibtisch gesehen. Und dann auch, dass in meinem Bett alles ganz genau geordnet ist. Also hinten, ähm, am Ende des Bettes musste die Bettdecke auf 'ne bestimmte Art und Weise, die wahrscheinlich Leute, die es nicht haben, nicht verstehen. Also es macht keinen Sinn, aber auf meine Art und Weise musste die Bettdecke da liegen, alle Kissen und Kuscheltiere positioniert sein in meinem Bett. Ich glaube natürlich, das ist so was, was auch alle Menschen kennen, dass Dinge ihren Platz haben. Aber was dann eben der Unterschied war, dass ich, ähm, dass ich dasFünf, sechs, sieben, irgendwann zehn Mal wiederholt, hab immer wieder aus dem Bett aufgestanden, bin wieder gucken muss, ob alles gerade liegt auf meinem Schreibtisch am Ende meines Bettes. Und dass ich praktisch immer wieder diesen inneren Drang hatte, das noch mal zu kontrollieren und noch mal und noch mal und noch mal. Dann hat sich das immer über immer mehr Bereiche meines Alltags gezogen. Also Zähneputzen morgens und abends, wie ich mich, die Art, wie ich mich anziehe, in welcher Reihenfolge, die Art, wie ich überhaupt Dinge mache am Tag, morgens und abends. Und irgendwann hat es sich dann eben auch auf die Schule ausgewirkt. Da hatte ich auch ganz, ganz genaue Vorstellungen, wie ich was machen musste. Hab Sachen unendlich oft geschrieben und wieder zerrissen, weil die ganz perfekt aussehen mussten oder weil die, weil irgendwas, irgendwas nicht gestimmt hat, sich nicht richtig angefühlt hat. Und natürlich haben das dann auch irgendwann, ähm, meine Eltern mitbekommen und, ähm, die waren zum Glück auch total sensibilisiert für das Thema und sind dann eben auch schon ganz, ganz früh mit mir, ähm, zu einer Therapeutin gegangen. Und du sagst erst mal, das Gefühl ist Angst. Man spürt Angst, bevor man so eine- Genau ... Zwangshandlung durchführt? Also genau, es ist immer eigentlich so, als Erstes steht der Zwangsgedanke, 'ne Angst oder, also es kann unterschiedliche, es können unterschiedliche Dinge sein: Angst, Schuldgefühl, Scham. Einfach so ein Gefühl, auch so eine innere Anspannung, die sich dann aufbaut und die halt unglaublich hoch wird. Also dein Körper ist dann oder mein Kopf ist in Alarmbereitschaft. Und jetzt in dem Beispiel, als ich klein war, war das einfach so 'ne Angst und so 'ne innere Anspannung, dass ich dachte, es passiert irgendwas Schlimmes, wenn ich das nicht tue. Wenn die Gegenstände nicht gerade liegen, wenn meine Decke nicht glatt liegt, ähm, dann passiert was Schlimmes. Und dann hat sich das auch mit den Jahren immer mehr konkretisiert, dass ich, äh, dann wirklich ganz konkrete Vorstellungen hab, wenn ich das und das nicht mache oder nicht richtig, nicht richtig mache, dann passiert meiner Familie was Schlimmes, dann passiert mir was Schlimmes. Ist das irgendwie stressgebunden, dass du, wenn, wenn's irgendwie anstrengende Phasen waren, dass es das eher gab? Oder gibt's da irgendeinen Zusammenhang mit irgendwelchen anderen Ereignissen im Leben? Mh, genau, also ich bin, ähm, rein familiär auch genetisch prädisponiert und bei mir ging oder kam dieser Ausbruch dann, als ich, wenn ich so zurückdenke, als ich in der Schule war. Ähm, und ich verbinde das heute eben viel auch mit diesem Eintritt in die Schule, Eintritt in die Leistungsgesellschaft, unterbewussten Druck, den ich wahrscheinlich verspürt hab, den ich mir immer nur selber gemacht hab. Also durch, durch meine perfektionistische Veranlagung hab ich mir immer extrem viel Druck gemacht. Ich sag mal, diese Neigung, die kann sich ja in der Schule, wenn man dann in der Schule ist, ja auch besser entfalten durch das ganze Konstrukt Schule, Lernen, äh, Leistungsgesellschaft, ähm, als jetzt vorher im Kindergarten zum Beispiel. Durch den Klinikaufenthalt, ähm, den ich gemacht hatte, ähm, und wo ich das erste Mal auch sehr intensiv mit anderen Patienten, die auch Zwänge haben, in Berührung gekommen bin und mich austauschen konnte, ähm, habe ich gemerkt, dass es auch viele Menschen gibt, die das, sage ich mal, das gleiche Zwangsthema haben, was sich so durchzieht. Und bei mir ist es eben so, die Themen haben sich irgendwie die Hand gegeben. Ich hab in jeder Episode, ähm, hatte ich bestimmte Zwänge in einem bestimmten Bereich und ich hab auch in jeder Episode 'ne Therapie gemacht. Nach jeder abgeschlossenen Therapie ging es mir dann erst mal besser und irgendwann kam der Zwang zurück, aber mit neuem Gesicht. Mit dass die Themen sich die Hand gegeben haben, meine ich, dann kam irgendwann, hat sich, hat sich ein neuer Zwang angeschlichen, aber eben einer, den ich überhaupt nicht kannte. Okay, aber du meinst, wenn du dich mit bestimmten Themen auf einmal intensiver befasst hast, dann wusstest du nicht, ob es gerade ein Thema ist, was dich umtreibt, oder ob das so was Zwanghaftes hat, sich damit zu beschäftigen? Genau. Okay. Also einen Zwang erkennt man ja daran oder der Grundgedanke von Zwängen, das sind, glaube ich, Gedanken, die alle Menschen irgendwie kennen oder die allen Menschen schon mal in den Kopf geschossen sind. Aber der Unterschied, wenn du Zwänge hast, ist, dass du die anders bewertest. Also dass du so 'nen Gedanken nicht wieder ziehen lassen kannst, sondern dass du dem Bedeutung beimisst und anfängst, dadrüber nachzudenken und der Gedanke praktisch an dir haften bleibt und du nicht mehr davon loskommst. Bei Menschen mit Zwängen ist es so, dass, äh, sich die Zwänge immer auf die allerwichtigsten Bereiche in dei-deren Leben, ähm, beziehen und auch auf deren wichtigste Werte und Moralvorstellungen und Dinge, die ihnen am Herzen liegen. Diese Dinge, die einem die, einem die Zwänge einreden, dass das Dinge sind, die man niemals tun würde, die man niemals machen würde, die gegen alle eigenen Moral- und Wertevorstellungen gehen. Als ich Jugendliche war, ähm, wie gesagt, haben meine Zwänge sich dann mehr in meinem Kopf abgespielt und auch die, also die Zwangshandlungen in meinem Kopf mehr abgespielt. Ähm, und ich hab dann in, äh, ja, in dieser Phase, in der jugendlichen Phase, ähm, aggressive Zwangsgedanken entwickelt. Ich hatte dann immer ganz doll Angst vor gefährlichen Gegenständen, weil ich Angst hatte, dass ich damit jemanden verletzen könnte oder gefährden könnte. Das war auch immer in Situationen, in denen ich mit Menschen zusammen war, die mir eben ganz wichtig waren. Also wenn ich jetzt alleine Straßenbahn gefahren bin oder so, dann kamen mir die Zwangsgedanken eher weniger. Man hat deswegen halt auch so eine riesige, unvorstellbare Angst vor diesen Zwangsgedanken. Es war immer mein Wunsch, dass ich in der Therapie das vollkommen unter Kontrolle krieg und dass ich's dann irgendwann los bin. Das Ziel, komplett gesund zu werden und diese Gedanken komplett loszuwerden, ist ja super utopisch und ich kann ja nicht kontrollieren, was ich für Gedanken in meinem Kopf hab. Ich glaube, so der Knackpunkt ist, ähm, dass man oder dass ich mir jetzt heute nicht mehr wünsche, dass die Gedanken nicht mehr in meinem Kopf sind, dass die weg sind, sondern dass ich die einfach anders bewerte. Dass ich akzeptiere, dass die Gedanken kommen und da sind, aber dass ich ihnen keine Bedeutung mehr zumesse und versuche, sie ziehen zu lassen. Ich label ihn mit dem Stempel Zwangsgedanke, bewerte ihn nicht, akzeptiere ihn und dadurch-Kann ich ihn ziehen lassen. Und das ist die Strategie, die ich auch einfach ganz doll jetzt im Alltag anwende. Bei Sprudelwasser, da sprudeln ganz viele, hier sieht man das ganz gut, ganz viele Blubberbläschen nach oben und das sind alles Gedanken und könnten alles Zwangsgedanken sein und man lässt sie nach oben blubbern und oben zerplatzen sie dann. So stelle ich mir das auch immer vor, dass meine Gedanken nach oben blubbern und dann irgendwann zerplatzen, wenn ich ihnen keine Bedeutung beimesse. Das ist ja der Klassiker zu Hause. Kennst du das auch, dass man noch mal zurückgeht und noch mal beim Herd guckt? Ja, genau. Kontrollzwänge hatte ich auch, äh, ganz doll eben beim Herd, bei den Wasserhähnen, dass die Fenster zu sind, ob die Heizungen aus sind. Und ich glaub, das sind auch so Gedanken, die hat eben jeder Mensch. Je-- Also jeder, das ist ja auch verständlich, wenn man aus dem Haus geht, dass man sich kurz überlegt: \"Hab ich den Herd ausgemacht?\" Erster Schritt ist dann eben auch bei mir immer, dass ich zurückgehe und kontrolliere und das nimmt dann irgendwann halt so ein Ausmaß an oder hat so ein Ausmaß angenommen, dass ich, keine Ahnung, zehn, fünfzehn Mal zurück in die Wohnung bin, um zu kontrollieren. Und wenn ich dann irgendwann mich losgerissen hab und gegangen bin, dann ist es oft in mentale Handlungen übergegangen, dass ich mir dann noch mal vorstelle: \"Ah, ich hab heute Morgen, als ich den Herd benutzt hab, ihn ausgedreht\", und mir das dann zum Beispiel bildlich vorgestellt hab, wie ich den Herdschalter ausgemacht hab. Und da, das hab ich halt nicht nur mit dem Herd, das hatte ich mit zig Sachen. Das heißt, äh, es dauert, hat in der Zeit, als ich diese Zwänge hatte, auch einfach superlang gedauert, bis ich überhaupt mal das Haus verlassen konnte. Das führt eben auch dann in gewisser Weise irgendwann auch zu Vermeidungsverhalten. Also das ist ja auch ganz klassisch bei Leuten, die Zwänge haben, dass man guckt, dass man vielleicht weniger das Haus verlassen muss, weil man weiß, was das für ein Riesenact ist. Waschzwänge sind so ein großes Thema, was mich nie, worauf sich nie mein Zwang geschmissen hat. Ich hab keine Ahnung, warum sich mein Zwang bestimmte Themen schnappt oder nicht schnappt. Ähm, ich weiß es nicht und Waschzwänge zum Beispiel ist ja auch was ganz Typisches. Mhm. Aber das hat, hat mich nie, hat meinen Zwang nie interessiert. Wie gesagt, als Kind, äh, hatte ich viel so Kontroll- und Ordnungszwänge. Als ich dann älter wurde, ist das übergegangen in, ähm, in aggressive Zwangsgedanken. Ein Thema False Memory OCD hatte ich auch eben. Da, da beziehen sich dann diese ganzen Grübeleien auf wann hat man was wie gemacht, ähm, weil ich ganz oft dann auch, ähm, ja Angst hatte, dass ich mich nicht mehr richtig erinnere, ähm, wie zum Beispiel in solchen Situationen. Also dass ich dann praktisch das auf meine Zwänge draufgesetzt hat, dass, dass ich aggressive Zwangsgedanken hatte oder moralische Zwangsgedanken, dass ich dachte, ich hab mich irgendwo falsch verhalten. Dann durch 'ne Zwangshandlung überprüfe ich das im Kopf zum Beispiel, ähm, oder, oder eben auch, ja, wie 'ne Handlung auch beim Kontrollieren, wenn ich den Herd kontrolliere. Dann, wenn man aus der Situation raus ist, kommt aber wieder ein Zwang bei mir, der mir dann sagt: \"Vielleicht erinnerst du dich falsch.\" Wenn man Zwänge hat, dann sucht man immer nach hundertprozentiger Sicherheit und man hat niemals hundertprozentige Sicherheit. Und wer ist Oscar? Genau, das ist mein Zwang. Ich hab meinen Zwang irgendwann personifiziert sozusagen als Tier. Das hab ich mal in der Therapie, ähm, kam das mal als Beispiel, dass man sich einen Zwang als, äh, kreischende, ekelige Straßenkatze vorstellen kann, die an deine Tür kratzt und, äh, sagt: \"Ich will Milch, ich hab Hunger.\" Und am Anfang machst du die Tür noch nicht auf und lässt die Katze einfach kratzen und da sein. Und dann vielleicht beim zigten Mal, wenn sie sich meldet, gibst du irgendwann nach und sagst: \"Ja, okay, hier ist ein bisschen Milch.\" Und dann kommt sie natürlich noch öfter wieder. Dann gibst du ihr noch öfter Milch, fütterst sie immer mehr und umso mehr du sie fütterst, umso anhänglicher und haftender wird sie und fühlt sich natürlich irgendwann pudelwohl bei dir. Ähm, genau und so funktionieren auch Zwänge. Und denn magst du deinen Oscar oder magst ihn nicht? Ja, also m-mein Oscar erinnert mich einfach immer daran, ähm, das wurde auch in der Therapie eben so gesagt: \"Füttern Sie die Katze nicht.\" Und immer wenn ich den angucke, denke ich mir, äh- Du kriegst nichts. Ja, ich fütter die Katze nicht, ich fütter Oscar nicht. Mein Zwang hat mir das Gefühl gegeben, ich kann nur alles falsch machen. Es ist nie gut genug. Ich bin nie gut genug für andere, weil ich immer irgendwo Fehler mache. Und, äh, das ist eben irgendwann so, so schlimm geworden, dass ich in jeglichen sozialen Interaktionen immer das Gefühl hatte, ich kann einfach nicht gut genug sein. Ich wusste damals auch schon, dass ich, äh, in Begleitung zu meinen Zwängen auch 'ne Depression habe, die einfach mit den Zwängen einhergeht. Dann hab ich das damals, ähm, dank einer Studie, an der ich teilgenommen hab für ein neues Behandlungsverfahren für Menschen mit Zwangserkrankungen. Bei dieser Studie hab ich das dank einer Therapeutin rausgefunden und durch die Gespräche mit der Therapeutin dort ist mir dann erst so richtig bewusst geworden, dass ich einfach immer hundert Prozent sichergehen will, dass ich kein schlechter Mensch bin und dass ich niemandem emotional Schaden zufüge. Hab auch geschafft, alleine da dran weiterzuarbeiten, aber eben nur 'ne gewisse Zeit. Und dann ist dieser Zwang auch wieder so viel größer geworden, ähm, und ich hab's einfach im Alltag, ähm, dann irgendwann nicht mehr geschafft, diesen Höhenflug von der Studie weiter mitzunehmen. Sonnig. Und wir sind jetzt hier auf deiner Lieblingsbank, oder? Ja, genau. Ähm, der Park hier ist ganz in der Nähe von meiner Wohnung. Vor allem im letzten Jahr, als es mir mit den Zwängen und der Depression sehr schlecht ging, war zum einen meine Wohnung so ein absoluter Safe Space für mich und aber auch hier dieser Park und diese Bank. Also ich hab hier einfach auch unfassbar viel Zeit verbracht. Ende letzten Jahres bin ich dann noch mal in die Klinik gegangen, weil es einfach zu Hause nicht mehr ging, weil einfach mein, mein ganzer Tag so bestimmt war von meinem-Von der Welt in meinem Kopf und meinen Zwangsgedanken. Und dass du sagst, das hat dir sehr geholfen. Ja, es hat mir sehr geholfen. Ich glaube, durch dieses stationäre Setting und dass ich mich wirklich in der Zeit voll und ganz auf die Behandlung meiner Zwänge konzentriert hab und diese anderen Alltagsaufgaben, die man hat und die ja auch einfach sehr schwerfallen, wenn's einem so schlecht geht, die sind da alle weggefallen und, ähm, ich hab einfach in der Klinik sehr, sehr intensiv Expositionen gemacht. Bei Exposition geht's darum, sich der Zwangs-, äh, und angstauslösenden Situation sozusagen auszusetzen, dass man diesem Drang dann nicht nachgeht und eben die, die Gefühle aushält, die man halt hat. Der Kopf lernt, ähm, dass es nicht- Passiert auch nicht. Es passiert nichts, genau. Es passiert nichts Schlimmes, es besteht keine Gefahr. Aber dafür ist es eben auch wichtig, dass man Expos hochfrequentiert und sehr viel auch macht. Kannst du 'n Beispiel nennen für so eine Exposition? Diese Ordnungszwänge und dass in meiner Wohnung jede Sache einen ganz bestimmten Platz hat, äh, die sind wir zum Beispiel angegangen in der Klinik. Ich musste dann eben während der Klinikzeit auch immer wieder Phasen zu Hause verbringen und dann meine Wohnung wirklich komplett unordentlich verwüsten. Also ein Zustand, der mich richtig, richtig erdrückt und den ich nur ganz, ganz schwer aushalten kann. Ja. Oder zum Beispiel, ich hab auch sehr starke Zwänge beim Lesen und Fernsehschauen, weil ich immer das Gefühl hab, ich muss alles richtig verstehen, also auf meine Art richtig. Mhm. Dass ich das Gefühl hab, ich hab wirklich jedes Detail verstanden. Und deswegen lese ich bei Büchern ganz oft Texte wieder und wieder nach. Und bei Filmen oder Serien ist es genauso, dass ich das ganz stark hab mit dem Zurückspulen- Mhm. -dass ich mir manche Szenen dann zehnmal anschaue, damit ich auch wirklich jedes Wort verstanden habe. Und jetzt ist es besser? Hältst du die Sachen jetzt besser aus beim zu Hause? Ja. Ja, auf jeden Fall. Also, ähm, die Klinik hat mir ganz, ganz viel geholfen und diese, diese hochfrequentierten Expositionen und ich wurde auch medikamentös, ähm, dort noch mal neu eingestellt. Mhm. Und jetzt, äh, im Moment bin ich, bin ich wirklich sehr stabil im Vergleich, äh, zu der Zeit vor ein paar Monaten. Das heißt, machst du jetzt auch dann regelmäßig Expos? Genau, also nicht natürlich bei Weitem nicht mehr so regelmäßig wie in der Klinik, sondern die Verantwortung liegt jetzt sozusagen bei mir, dass ich selber schaue, wann brauche ich Expos. Vielleicht so ein bis zwei mittlerweile in der Woche. Also am Anfang nach der Klinik war das noch deutlich mehr, aber es hat sich dann auch so stark verbessert mit den Wochen. Ja, du hast jetzt mit Yoga angefangen, aber mit anderen Sachen aufgehört. Warum, warum fühlt sich Yoga für dich anders an? Durch die Zwänge ist in meinem Kopf immer super, super viel los. Deswegen fällt es mir einfach extrem schwer, generell schon mich zu entspannen oder runterzukommen, weil ich in allen möglichen Situationen immer Zwänge hatte. Vor allem eben im letzten Jahr ist das ganz, ganz extrem geworden dann auch wieder, ja. Meine zwei Hobbys, die ich auch schon seit Jahren mache, Reiten und Stepptanzen, musste ich leider pausieren oder aussetzen. Bin dann auf Empfehlung meiner Therapeutin hier mal zu einer Yogaklasse gegangen. In der Yogastunde ist man natürlich auch mit vielen Leuten hier zusammen und der Raum ist voll. Aber, ähm, ich hab immer das Gefühl, wenn ich so meine Matte betrete, dass ich dann ganz ruhig werde und irgendwie in mich kehre und mich auf mich konzentrieren kann und dadurch eben sehr viel Ruhe finde. Und, äh, durch die Zwänge hat man ja auch gleichzeitig immer sehr starke Anspannungen und die merke ich auch immer total körperlich. Das ist auch was, was ich ganz, ganz krass beim Yoga spüre, dass ich im Laufe von so einer Yogastunde diese Anspannung total abbauen kann und loslassen kann und dass mein Körper und mein Geist eben zumindest für kurze Zeit mal ruhig sind und losgelassen. Was, was wünschst du dir so für deine Zukunft? Wie, wie soll's werden? Was malst du dir aus? Am allermeisten wünsche ich mir für die Zukunft, dass ich es einfach schaffe, ein selbstbestimmtes Leben zu führen. Und selbstbestimmt heißt für mich, dass der Zwang nicht mich an der Hand hat, sondern ich sag immer, dass ich den Zwang an der Hand hab. Mein Zwang hat sich auch die letzten Monate so angefühlt wie so 'n Riesenberg, der vor mir emporragt. Und ich dachte ja monatelang, ich, ich, ich schaff's einfach nicht. Ich kann den nicht erklimmen, ich schaff es nicht. Jetzt die letzte Zeit, vor allem auch in der Klinik, hab ich das Gefühl gehabt, dass ich diesen Berg Schritt für Schritt bestiegen hab, ganz kurz davor bin, da auch oben zu stehen. Und deswegen hab ich mir überlegt, dass ich auch das symbolisch gerne machen würde, dass ich, äh, gerne auf die Zugspitze steigen will dieses Jahr aus eigener Kraft. Da hätte ich dann auch gerne ein Bild von. Ja, auf jeden Fall. Vielen Dank, dass du uns von deinen, ja, Höhen und Tiefen erzählt hast. Ja, vielen Dank euch. Ich find das richtig toll, dass ihr diese Reihe macht. Ja. Ja. Oh, ich auch. Und jetzt frag ich mal die Yogalehrerin, wie man von hier nach oben kommt. 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