diff --git "a/data/XX56qky-nbM_001/metadata.json" "b/data/XX56qky-nbM_001/metadata.json" new file mode 100644--- /dev/null +++ "b/data/XX56qky-nbM_001/metadata.json" @@ -0,0 +1,46548 @@ +{ + "sample_id": "XX56qky-nbM_001", + "video_id": "XX56qky-nbM", + "video_title": "When the bad voices put pressure on you | no stigma!", + "chapter_title": "At Max's House", + "chapter_start_sec": 643.0, + "chapter_end_sec": 1545.0, + "audio_file": "001 At Max's House.mp3", + "srt_file": "001 At Max's House.srt", + "language_code": "de", + "diarize": true, + "elevenlabs_model_id": "scribe_v2", + "created_at_utc": "2026-03-25T16:39:19.529277+00:00", + "transcript_text": "Berg, äh, zu dir nach Hause, wenn das okay ist. Ja, können wir machen. Ja. In meine Wohnung. Das ist quasi wie so 'n Heimathafen, ja. Heimathafen, Selfcare. Spitz und niemand da. Max, äh, wir sind jetzt bei dir zu Hause. Ja. Du hattest das vorhin in der, äh, Stadtbibliothek Heidelberg so beschrieben: Das ist für dich 'n sicherer Hafen. Tür fällt ins Schloss und- Ja. -du bist zu Hause. Ja. Wie oft bist du hier? Wie viel verbringst du die meiste Zeit hier in dieser Wohnung? Also ich geh natürlich raus, ich mach auch Sport. Du hast direkt 'n McHar vor der Tür, hab ich gerade gesehen. Ja, das ist richtig schön dann. Kann gut mit mir allein sein auch, aber das ist kein Gefühl der Einsamkeit bei mir, sondern ich kann mich gut mit, mh, mich mit mir selbst beschäftigen, ne. Hab aber auch viele Gespräche einfach im Chat oder per Telefonat mit Familie und Freunden. Trotzdem so 'n Gefühl, das Geborgensein zu haben, dass da Menschen um mich herum sind. Als wir hergekommen sind, sind mir direkt zwei Dinge aufgefallen. Zum zweiten komm ich gleich. Das eine: In deiner Wohnung gibt's wenig persönliche Gegenstände. Ich mein, so Bilder, Pflanzen et cetera. Ist alles sehr, sehr klar strukturiert, sehr, sehr schlicht. Ist das Zufall? Ist eher mein Bedürfnis, dass ich, ich brauch schon 'ne klare Struktur, so 'n Leerraum einfach, der nicht irgendwie vollgestellt ist auch. Und das hängt damit zusammen, neben mir diese klaren Struktur, die ich mir nach und nach wieder aufgebaut habe. Ich hab nicht so 'n Tagesplan aufgeschrieben, aber ich hab so meinen Tagesplan im Kopf, wann ich aufstehe, wann ich duschen gehe, wann ich mir Kaffee mache morgens. Das hört sich jetzt so streng an, dass ich so streng mit mir umgehe, aber das ist gar nicht der Fall, weil ich dann so diese Gedanken 'n bisschen weiterspinne im Kopf und das notier ich mir dann und das nehm ich dann auf mit den Therapien, kann darüber sprechen, ne. Deine Mama hast du schon häufiger erwähnt jetzt in den Gesprächen. Welche Beziehung habt ihr zueinander? Sehr eng, weil meine Mutter war noch in der Ausbildung. Als sie mich bekommen hat, da war sie 19. Sie ist Erzieherin in 'ner Kindertagesstätte. Mein leiblicher Vater ist dann kurz nach der Geburt gegangen. Dann kam mein Stiefvater hinzu, der hat mich adoptiert. Also mein Nachname ist der meines Stiefvaters quasi noch. Dann kam die Trennung wieder zwi-zwischen meiner Mutter und meinem Adoptivvater. Bin ich mit meiner Mutter mitgegangen, hab quasi so mehrere Stationen mit meiner Mutter immer durchlaufen, bin immer bei ihr geblieben, ne. Ich hab halt so Persönlichkeitsmerkmale von mir, die ich mir vom bekannten Teil meiner Familie nicht herleiten kann, so vom, von den Verhaltensweisen. Mein Wunsch war schon immer, meinen leiblichen Vater und die Familie dahinter kennenzulernen. Hab's bisher dreimal versucht, hat er immer abgelehnt. Und ich weiß nicht, ich denke eher, ich, ich weiß nicht, warum er so denkt, aber ich projizier das in ihn herein, dass er wohl denkt, dass ich so 'n Störfaktor bin in seinem neuen Leben, dass er das nicht mehr haben möchte, dass er doch da mal doch ein Kind gezeugt hat, ja. Mhm. Einfach 'n bisschen mehr Klarheit gewinnen, so die ganze Familie, die sind immer alles 'n bisschen verstrickt bei uns. Diese sensorische Wahrnehmung, die ich habe, die erkenn ich auch bei meiner Oma. Ähm, aber diese hohe Sensibilität, die ich auch habe, ähm, die kann ich mir nicht ganz herleiten. Das kann ich mir vorstellen, dass, dass, äh, dass einen so was brennend interessiert, weil man ja immer bestrebt ist rauszufinden, wo kommt's her. Ja. Ja. Dieses rausfinden, wo kommt's her, hat ja bei dir auch dazu geführt, dass du nach anfänglichen Problemen, diese Diagnose anzunehmen, dich dann der Sache gestellt hast und das auch in deinem Freundes- und Bekanntenkreis, äh, öffentlich gemacht hast. Ja. Wie ist das da abgelaufen? Mit welchen Resultaten? Also Resultat war, dass mein Freundeskreis dadurch geschrumpft ist. Sie wollten damit nichts zu tun haben. Da kam das, ähm, da kam das, was ich immer gelesen habe, hab ich dann an mir selbst erfahren, die Stigmatisierung. Sie hatten Angst vor mir dann, ob ich Gewalt anwenden würde, gewalttätig bin, mich nicht unter Kontrolle habe. Und ich wollte das alles einfach erklären, dass das sehr individuell ist, wie das einfach abläuft und der Genesungsweg, wie der dann abläuft. Konnte ich aber nicht, weil sie dann weg waren und, ähm, sie haben dann auch wirklich Chats gelöscht. Aber man sollte ja davon ausgehen, dass das Menschen sind, die dich schon 'ne Weile lang kennen- Ja. -und dich ja vorher auch als den Max wahrgenommen oder gekannt und auch, äh, gemocht haben, der du bist. Ähm, das ist sicherlich 'ne sehr, sehr schmerzhafte Erfahrung, wenn man merkt, dass sich Menschen von einem abkehren, obwohl man ihnen gerade sein Innerstes öffnet. Ja. Kannst du das trotzdem irgendwie verstehen? Kannst du's verzeihen? Kannst du's akzeptieren? Mitleid ist, glaub ich, der falsche Begriff dann, den ich dann mit diesen Leuten habe, aber ich glaube, es ist, es ist kein Verzeihen in dem Sinne, aber ich kenn mich mittlerweile ganz gut mit manchen Menschen aus, wie sie ticken. Mhm. Es gibt die schönen und die schmerzhaften Geschichten in jedem Leben. Dass du dich sehr tiefgreifend mit dir selbst auseinandersetzt, mit deiner Erkrankung auseinandersetzt, das haben wir heute schon an ganz vielen Stellen gespürt und, äh, du konntest uns das sehr, sehr plastisch vor Augen führen. Ähm, es hat letztendlich auch dazu geführt, dass du einen Betätigungsfeld gefunden hast, wo du deine Erfahrungen einbringen kannst. Erzähl mal darüber, bitte. Das ist quasi 'ne Begleitung, die ich in 'nem Hilfsvorreich mache. Dabei, das ist wie so 'ne emotionale Stütze, die ich gebe, die ich gerne in der Psychiatrie auch erfahren hätte. Wir machen so Freizeitaktivitäten, sag ich mal. Mal gehen wir nur spazieren oder wir gehen in 'n Café und sprechen einfach miteinander, wie die Woche war, wie der Tag gerade läuft oder was einfach so emotional gerade da ist oder welche Erfahrungen passiert sind in der Zwischenzeit. So 'ne Person hätt ich sehr gerne gehabt, als ich in der Phase war, in der, in der schweren Phase. Ich sehe die Leute, die Leute öffnen sich sehr schnell. Wir öffnen uns dann gegenseitig. Ich erzähl dann viel und dann springt wohl irgend 'n Punkt im Gegenüber anDen das Gegenüber mal aussprechen wollte und dann entwickeln sich da sehr schöne Gespräche daraus. Du hast grade gesagt, dass beide Seiten, also auch du, etwas aus dieser, aus diesen Begegnungen mit diesen Menschen mit rausnimmst. Hält es sich die Waage? Du gibst ja sehr, sehr viel von deiner Erfahrung dort, aber du bekommst ja auch viel zurück. Also dieses, dieses Verständnis, was diese Personen von dir empfangen, das kriegst du ja auch von ihnen. Ist es also sozusagen auch 'n Stück Selbsttherapie, die du dort noch mit machst? Ist wie quasi so 'ne Zwei-Personen-Selbsthilfegruppe erst einmal. Also Selbsthilfegruppe bin ich ja auch hier in Heidelberg, in der Psychosegruppe, die sich zweimal im Monat trifft. Und es ist so 'n grundlegendes Verstehen einfach. Also da kommt niemandem etwas fremd vor, weil die Leute alles Ähnliches erlebt haben einfach und ganz genau wissen, wie das ist, äh, Stimmen zu hören oder Dinge zu sehen, die man objektiv nicht feststellen kann. Das war ja meine Realität quasi. Und der Arzt, der mich in der Psychiatrie aufgenommen hat, ähm, der war ganz toll in dem Sinne, dass er mir das nicht abgesprochen hat. Da hat er nicht gesagt: \"Das ist ja völliger Quatsch, was du da grade g, was du da grade hörst. Das kann ich nicht feststellen objektiv.\" Und er hat gesagt, er hat dann zu mir gesagt: \"Ich weiß, dass das grade deine Realität ist und dass du das noch hörst gerade, aber...\" Und er hat's mir nicht abgesprochen. Das war ganz wichtig, ja. Viele Menschen, die auf der Suche sind, zum Teil händeringend nach 'ner, äh, auf der Suche sind nach einer Therapie, ähm, wissen, wie lange das dauert, um da dementsprechend einen Platz zu bekommen. Wie lange hat's bei dir gedauert? Ähm, Klinik oder Therapieplatz? Sowohl als auch. Klinik war ich, also ich bin über die Geschlossene quasi gekommen, da wurde ich direkt aufgenommen. Da hab ich wirklich, ähm, da haben sich manche Bilder schon in mir eingebrannt, die ich da gesehen habe an Schicksalen auch. Und dann bin ich nach vier Wochen auf die Offene gekommen. Ich hab angerufen quasi und zwei Tage später war ich in der Geschlossenen. Bei meinem ersten Aufenthalt zwei Monate, dann anschließend auf der, also drei Monate insgesamt dann quasi war ich auf dem Gelände, zwei Monate davon auf 'ner offenen Station. Ja. Und da wurden dann auch, ähm, die Medikamente eingestellt. Weil du grade Medikamente ansprichst, Medikamente liegen bei dir auch aufm Tisch. Das heißt also, die Medikamente sind zu 'nem ganz festen Bestandteil deines Lebens geworden. Die begleiten dich jeden Tag. Vorhin hab ich ja erwähnt, dass in der Bibliothek noch kurz, dass das am Anfang Einschränkungen mit sich brachte bei mir kognitiv mit dem Lesen und Abläufe verstehen oder Gespräche verfolgen können oder mit Leuten einfach zu sprechen. Es war einfach bei mir so, dass manchmal die Sprache ausgesetzt hat so 'n bisschen, aber da hab ich gemerkt, dass das nicht an den Medikamenten liegt, sondern noch dieses, dieser Nachhall der Schizophrenie ist, dass ich manchmal Wörter einfach nicht gefunden habe und so abgehackte Sätze von mir gelassen habe. Mittlerweile hat sich das Ganze gedreht, dass die Medikamente mir eben 'n Leben ermöglichen, körperlich und psychisch, und die mich nicht mehr einschränken, ja. Trotzdem, wir wären ja heute noch verabredet gewesen mit, mit einer Freundin von dir, die leider heute grade Grippe hat. Und wir wünschen ihr natürlich gute Besserung. Und ich weiß von ihr, dass sie auch, äh, Erfahrung mit, mit 'ner Schizophrenie hat. Ja. Wie wichtig sind dir Freunde? Ist es wichtig, dass diese Freundin zum Beispiel diese, diesen Hintergrund aus eigenem Ermessen versteht, aus eigener Erfahrung versteht? Oder ist das eigentlich nebensächlich? Es ist haupt-hauptsächlich, dass jemand emotional da ist. Es geht mir nicht darum, dass jemand diese Krankheit hat, mit dem ich dann zusammen bin, sondern diese grundlegende Empathiefähigkeit, was für mich 'n Unterschied ist zum Mitleid, weil Mitleid ist immer so 'n bisschen von oben herab und die Empathie ist etwas anderes. Das ist so in, in dieses Leben hineindenken, so. Das ist mir einfach im Umgang wichtig. Was begegnet dir öfter? Empathie, Mitleid oder Gleichgültigkeit? Ich kann Umfeld sehr gut wahrnehmen einfach. Ich kann so 'ne Atmosphäre sehr gut wahrnehmen. Ich merk es so, die Leute, die Leute schotten sich so 'n bisschen ab. Kann dann schon nah ranführen an so 'ne Gleichgültigkeit oder Ignoranz auch, ja. Und wahrscheinlich dann der nächste, die nächste Eskalationsstufe wäre dann wieder die Stigmatisierung, die du ja schon an der einen oder anderen Stelle angesprochen hast. Ähm, begegnet dir so 'ne Stigmatisierung bewusst in deinem Alltag irgendwo oder hat sich das mittlerweile abgeschwächt? Wie ist das? Ich möchte Blicke gar nicht mehr so auf mich beziehen oder nicht den Fehler in mir suchen dann, wenn ich schräg angeschaut werde wegen irgendwas. Ich habe einfach mal gelesen, dass es, dass das, dass eine Stigmatisierungserfahrung nicht, ähm, aus einem Merkmal hervorgeht, das ich habe, sondern dass das vom Impuls des Gegenübers ausgeht, von 'ner bestimmten Sichtweise oder Wahrnehmung des Gegenübers, dass das erst einmal nichts mit mir zu tun hat, ja. Aber gleichwohl trägst du ja auch mit großem Bewusstsein und auch mit 'nem gewissen Stolz die grüne Schleife vom Aktionsbündnis Mentale Gesundheit, ne. Also, ähm, bist du denn darauf schon mal angesprochen worden oder nimmst du eine Resonanz wahr? Fällt vielleicht als kurzer Blick auf einfach. Wenn ich an Leuten vorbeigehe, dann fällt es denen kurz auf. Ich weiß aber nicht, ob sie sich dann damit näher beschäftigen, vielleicht kurz aufs Handy schauen oder so und das kurz nachschlagen auf Google oder so. Das ist schon so 'ne Art Resonanz Erfahrung, ja. Einfach so 'n Aspekt meines Daseins, den ich nicht verstecke. Aber ich weiß ja auch darum, dass zu 'nem allumfassenden Bild von mir gehören noch so viele andere Dinge. Wenn du zurückschaust jetzt, ähm, zum Beginn deiner Diagnose zumindest, was waren für dich die, die wichtigsten und die prägendsten Schritte in dieser Zeit von damals bis heute bis zu dem Punkt, an dem du jetzt stehst? Der wichtigste Schritt war-Erst einmal, als ich die Diagnose erhalten hab in der Klinik, ähm, nach und nach so Anrufe machen bei meiner Mutter und bei meinen Freunden, die dageblieben sind. Wir hatten sehr kurz, dass viele sich abgewendet haben. Ähm, und dann zu sagen, das und das ist jetzt die Diagnose und damit werd ich jetzt leben. Also wahrscheinlich auch erst mal das Annehmen der Diagnose, ne? Ja, ja. War das-- Entschuldige, da muss ich kurz, kurz noch mal zwischenfragen. Ja, es war so quasi, es war einfach, ich bin dann aufs Zimmer zurückgegangen. Ich bin oben beim Psychiater gewesen. Der hat mir dann die Diagnose mitgeteilt. Bin ich zurück auf mein Zimmer und saß erst mal so 'ne halbe Stunde auf der Bettkante. Hab das erst mal sacken lassen müssen so. Was war das, was waren die Hauptgefühle, die du in diesem Moment hattest? War's Erleichterung, weil jetzt hattest du Gewissheit? War's, war's Schock, weil jetzt hattest du's schwarz auf weiß? War's 'ne Mischung aus allem? Ich hatte, ich hatte, äh, ich hatte endlich 'n Begriff quasi. Der Begriff war mir schon bekannt, aber ich hab ihn nicht auf mich bezogen und dann hab ich ihn zum ersten Mal auf mich bezogen, dass das auf mich zutrifft. Dann hatt ich 'n Begriff, dann konnt ich etwas erklären, was damit zusammenhängt. Trotzdem war es schon 'n Schock, weil das einfach alles anders ist danach, ja. Weil vieles, weil ich vieles neu ordnen musste, mein ganzes Leben erst mal umkrempelte, viele Strategien oder Mechanismen dann erlernt habe. So was, was ich dann später auch in der Tagesklinik noch gelernt habe. So Dinge wie Schlafhygiene, abends 'n ruhigen Ausklang ohne viele Reize. Solche Dinge, so dieses sehr bewusste Umgang mit sich selbst, den ich früher nicht hatte. Ja. Welchen Stellenwert nimmt deine Erkrankung in deinem Leben ein? Gespräche kommen schon noch darauf zurück mit meiner Mutter, mit meinen Freunden, aber ich hab's integriert quasi in mein Selbst und weil es, hab das, ich glaub, das hab ich jetzt schon öfters gesagt, das ist ein Teil und dazu kommen noch viele andere Teile. Weil ich glaub, das ist ganz arg witzig, äh, wichtig, dass man das so integriert, dass das sich nicht abstößt. Das geht natürlich mit Akzeptanz einher. Vor etwa zehn Jahren hattest du mit dieser Diagnose einen, einen, einen großen Wandel in deinem Leben, weil dann konntest du den Dingen einen Namen geben, wie du's grade so schön beschrieben hast. Wenn wir jetzt mal zehn Jahre in die Zukunft versuchen zu schauen, was, wo siehst du dich da? Wo ich mich in zehn Jahren sehe? Ich weiß nicht, 'n bisschen, dass ich dem zufall, einfach wo es mich hintreiben wird. Ja, dass ich diesen Umgang, den ich jetzt mit mir selbst gefunden habe und anderen, dass ich den nicht wieder verliere, weil der mir sehr viel gebracht hat. Max, hab vielen lieben Dank für deine Offenheit, dass du uns so in dein Leben hast reinschauen lassen. Alles, alles Gute, alles Liebe für dich. Hab vielen lieben Dank, mein Freund.", + "raw_asr_payload": { + "language_code": "deu", + "language_probability": 1.0, + "text": "Berg, äh, zu dir nach Hause, wenn das okay ist. Ja, können wir machen. Ja. In meine Wohnung. Das ist quasi wie so 'n Heimathafen, ja. Heimathafen, Selfcare. Spitz und niemand da. Max, äh, wir sind jetzt bei dir zu Hause. Ja. Du hattest das vorhin in der, äh, Stadtbibliothek Heidelberg so beschrieben: Das ist für dich 'n sicherer Hafen. Tür fällt ins Schloss und- Ja. -du bist zu Hause. Ja. Wie oft bist du hier? Wie viel verbringst du die meiste Zeit hier in dieser Wohnung? Also ich geh natürlich raus, ich mach auch Sport. Du hast direkt 'n McHar vor der Tür, hab ich gerade gesehen. Ja, das ist richtig schön dann. Kann gut mit mir allein sein auch, aber das ist kein Gefühl der Einsamkeit bei mir, sondern ich kann mich gut mit, mh, mich mit mir selbst beschäftigen, ne. Hab aber auch viele Gespräche einfach im Chat oder per Telefonat mit Familie und Freunden. Trotzdem so 'n Gefühl, das Geborgensein zu haben, dass da Menschen um mich herum sind. Als wir hergekommen sind, sind mir direkt zwei Dinge aufgefallen. Zum zweiten komm ich gleich. Das eine: In deiner Wohnung gibt's wenig persönliche Gegenstände. Ich mein, so Bilder, Pflanzen et cetera. Ist alles sehr, sehr klar strukturiert, sehr, sehr schlicht. Ist das Zufall? Ist eher mein Bedürfnis, dass ich, ich brauch schon 'ne klare Struktur, so 'n Leerraum einfach, der nicht irgendwie vollgestellt ist auch. Und das hängt damit zusammen, neben mir diese klaren Struktur, die ich mir nach und nach wieder aufgebaut habe. Ich hab nicht so 'n Tagesplan aufgeschrieben, aber ich hab so meinen Tagesplan im Kopf, wann ich aufstehe, wann ich duschen gehe, wann ich mir Kaffee mache morgens. Das hört sich jetzt so streng an, dass ich so streng mit mir umgehe, aber das ist gar nicht der Fall, weil ich dann so diese Gedanken 'n bisschen weiterspinne im Kopf und das notier ich mir dann und das nehm ich dann auf mit den Therapien, kann darüber sprechen, ne. Deine Mama hast du schon häufiger erwähnt jetzt in den Gesprächen. Welche Beziehung habt ihr zueinander? Sehr eng, weil meine Mutter war noch in der Ausbildung. Als sie mich bekommen hat, da war sie 19. Sie ist Erzieherin in 'ner Kindertagesstätte. Mein leiblicher Vater ist dann kurz nach der Geburt gegangen. Dann kam mein Stiefvater hinzu, der hat mich adoptiert. Also mein Nachname ist der meines Stiefvaters quasi noch. Dann kam die Trennung wieder zwi-zwischen meiner Mutter und meinem Adoptivvater. Bin ich mit meiner Mutter mitgegangen, hab quasi so mehrere Stationen mit meiner Mutter immer durchlaufen, bin immer bei ihr geblieben, ne. Ich hab halt so Persönlichkeitsmerkmale von mir, die ich mir vom bekannten Teil meiner Familie nicht herleiten kann, so vom, von den Verhaltensweisen. Mein Wunsch war schon immer, meinen leiblichen Vater und die Familie dahinter kennenzulernen. Hab's bisher dreimal versucht, hat er immer abgelehnt. Und ich weiß nicht, ich denke eher, ich, ich weiß nicht, warum er so denkt, aber ich projizier das in ihn herein, dass er wohl denkt, dass ich so 'n Störfaktor bin in seinem neuen Leben, dass er das nicht mehr haben möchte, dass er doch da mal doch ein Kind gezeugt hat, ja. Mhm. Einfach 'n bisschen mehr Klarheit gewinnen, so die ganze Familie, die sind immer alles 'n bisschen verstrickt bei uns. Diese sensorische Wahrnehmung, die ich habe, die erkenn ich auch bei meiner Oma. Ähm, aber diese hohe Sensibilität, die ich auch habe, ähm, die kann ich mir nicht ganz herleiten. Das kann ich mir vorstellen, dass, dass, äh, dass einen so was brennend interessiert, weil man ja immer bestrebt ist rauszufinden, wo kommt's her. Ja. Ja. Dieses rausfinden, wo kommt's her, hat ja bei dir auch dazu geführt, dass du nach anfänglichen Problemen, diese Diagnose anzunehmen, dich dann der Sache gestellt hast und das auch in deinem Freundes- und Bekanntenkreis, äh, öffentlich gemacht hast. Ja. Wie ist das da abgelaufen? Mit welchen Resultaten? Also Resultat war, dass mein Freundeskreis dadurch geschrumpft ist. Sie wollten damit nichts zu tun haben. Da kam das, ähm, da kam das, was ich immer gelesen habe, hab ich dann an mir selbst erfahren, die Stigmatisierung. Sie hatten Angst vor mir dann, ob ich Gewalt anwenden würde, gewalttätig bin, mich nicht unter Kontrolle habe. Und ich wollte das alles einfach erklären, dass das sehr individuell ist, wie das einfach abläuft und der Genesungsweg, wie der dann abläuft. Konnte ich aber nicht, weil sie dann weg waren und, ähm, sie haben dann auch wirklich Chats gelöscht. Aber man sollte ja davon ausgehen, dass das Menschen sind, die dich schon 'ne Weile lang kennen- Ja. -und dich ja vorher auch als den Max wahrgenommen oder gekannt und auch, äh, gemocht haben, der du bist. Ähm, das ist sicherlich 'ne sehr, sehr schmerzhafte Erfahrung, wenn man merkt, dass sich Menschen von einem abkehren, obwohl man ihnen gerade sein Innerstes öffnet. Ja. Kannst du das trotzdem irgendwie verstehen? Kannst du's verzeihen? Kannst du's akzeptieren? Mitleid ist, glaub ich, der falsche Begriff dann, den ich dann mit diesen Leuten habe, aber ich glaube, es ist, es ist kein Verzeihen in dem Sinne, aber ich kenn mich mittlerweile ganz gut mit manchen Menschen aus, wie sie ticken. Mhm. Es gibt die schönen und die schmerzhaften Geschichten in jedem Leben. Dass du dich sehr tiefgreifend mit dir selbst auseinandersetzt, mit deiner Erkrankung auseinandersetzt, das haben wir heute schon an ganz vielen Stellen gespürt und, äh, du konntest uns das sehr, sehr plastisch vor Augen führen. Ähm, es hat letztendlich auch dazu geführt, dass du einen Betätigungsfeld gefunden hast, wo du deine Erfahrungen einbringen kannst. Erzähl mal darüber, bitte. Das ist quasi 'ne Begleitung, die ich in 'nem Hilfsvorreich mache. Dabei, das ist wie so 'ne emotionale Stütze, die ich gebe, die ich gerne in der Psychiatrie auch erfahren hätte. Wir machen so Freizeitaktivitäten, sag ich mal. Mal gehen wir nur spazieren oder wir gehen in 'n Café und sprechen einfach miteinander, wie die Woche war, wie der Tag gerade läuft oder was einfach so emotional gerade da ist oder welche Erfahrungen passiert sind in der Zwischenzeit. So 'ne Person hätt ich sehr gerne gehabt, als ich in der Phase war, in der, in der schweren Phase. Ich sehe die Leute, die Leute öffnen sich sehr schnell. Wir öffnen uns dann gegenseitig. Ich erzähl dann viel und dann springt wohl irgend 'n Punkt im Gegenüber anDen das Gegenüber mal aussprechen wollte und dann entwickeln sich da sehr schöne Gespräche daraus. Du hast grade gesagt, dass beide Seiten, also auch du, etwas aus dieser, aus diesen Begegnungen mit diesen Menschen mit rausnimmst. Hält es sich die Waage? Du gibst ja sehr, sehr viel von deiner Erfahrung dort, aber du bekommst ja auch viel zurück. Also dieses, dieses Verständnis, was diese Personen von dir empfangen, das kriegst du ja auch von ihnen. Ist es also sozusagen auch 'n Stück Selbsttherapie, die du dort noch mit machst? Ist wie quasi so 'ne Zwei-Personen-Selbsthilfegruppe erst einmal. Also Selbsthilfegruppe bin ich ja auch hier in Heidelberg, in der Psychosegruppe, die sich zweimal im Monat trifft. Und es ist so 'n grundlegendes Verstehen einfach. Also da kommt niemandem etwas fremd vor, weil die Leute alles Ähnliches erlebt haben einfach und ganz genau wissen, wie das ist, äh, Stimmen zu hören oder Dinge zu sehen, die man objektiv nicht feststellen kann. Das war ja meine Realität quasi. Und der Arzt, der mich in der Psychiatrie aufgenommen hat, ähm, der war ganz toll in dem Sinne, dass er mir das nicht abgesprochen hat. Da hat er nicht gesagt: \"Das ist ja völliger Quatsch, was du da grade g, was du da grade hörst. Das kann ich nicht feststellen objektiv.\" Und er hat gesagt, er hat dann zu mir gesagt: \"Ich weiß, dass das grade deine Realität ist und dass du das noch hörst gerade, aber...\" Und er hat's mir nicht abgesprochen. Das war ganz wichtig, ja. Viele Menschen, die auf der Suche sind, zum Teil händeringend nach 'ner, äh, auf der Suche sind nach einer Therapie, ähm, wissen, wie lange das dauert, um da dementsprechend einen Platz zu bekommen. Wie lange hat's bei dir gedauert? Ähm, Klinik oder Therapieplatz? Sowohl als auch. Klinik war ich, also ich bin über die Geschlossene quasi gekommen, da wurde ich direkt aufgenommen. Da hab ich wirklich, ähm, da haben sich manche Bilder schon in mir eingebrannt, die ich da gesehen habe an Schicksalen auch. Und dann bin ich nach vier Wochen auf die Offene gekommen. Ich hab angerufen quasi und zwei Tage später war ich in der Geschlossenen. Bei meinem ersten Aufenthalt zwei Monate, dann anschließend auf der, also drei Monate insgesamt dann quasi war ich auf dem Gelände, zwei Monate davon auf 'ner offenen Station. Ja. Und da wurden dann auch, ähm, die Medikamente eingestellt. Weil du grade Medikamente ansprichst, Medikamente liegen bei dir auch aufm Tisch. Das heißt also, die Medikamente sind zu 'nem ganz festen Bestandteil deines Lebens geworden. Die begleiten dich jeden Tag. Vorhin hab ich ja erwähnt, dass in der Bibliothek noch kurz, dass das am Anfang Einschränkungen mit sich brachte bei mir kognitiv mit dem Lesen und Abläufe verstehen oder Gespräche verfolgen können oder mit Leuten einfach zu sprechen. Es war einfach bei mir so, dass manchmal die Sprache ausgesetzt hat so 'n bisschen, aber da hab ich gemerkt, dass das nicht an den Medikamenten liegt, sondern noch dieses, dieser Nachhall der Schizophrenie ist, dass ich manchmal Wörter einfach nicht gefunden habe und so abgehackte Sätze von mir gelassen habe. Mittlerweile hat sich das Ganze gedreht, dass die Medikamente mir eben 'n Leben ermöglichen, körperlich und psychisch, und die mich nicht mehr einschränken, ja. Trotzdem, wir wären ja heute noch verabredet gewesen mit, mit einer Freundin von dir, die leider heute grade Grippe hat. Und wir wünschen ihr natürlich gute Besserung. Und ich weiß von ihr, dass sie auch, äh, Erfahrung mit, mit 'ner Schizophrenie hat. Ja. Wie wichtig sind dir Freunde? Ist es wichtig, dass diese Freundin zum Beispiel diese, diesen Hintergrund aus eigenem Ermessen versteht, aus eigener Erfahrung versteht? Oder ist das eigentlich nebensächlich? Es ist haupt-hauptsächlich, dass jemand emotional da ist. Es geht mir nicht darum, dass jemand diese Krankheit hat, mit dem ich dann zusammen bin, sondern diese grundlegende Empathiefähigkeit, was für mich 'n Unterschied ist zum Mitleid, weil Mitleid ist immer so 'n bisschen von oben herab und die Empathie ist etwas anderes. Das ist so in, in dieses Leben hineindenken, so. Das ist mir einfach im Umgang wichtig. Was begegnet dir öfter? Empathie, Mitleid oder Gleichgültigkeit? Ich kann Umfeld sehr gut wahrnehmen einfach. Ich kann so 'ne Atmosphäre sehr gut wahrnehmen. Ich merk es so, die Leute, die Leute schotten sich so 'n bisschen ab. Kann dann schon nah ranführen an so 'ne Gleichgültigkeit oder Ignoranz auch, ja. Und wahrscheinlich dann der nächste, die nächste Eskalationsstufe wäre dann wieder die Stigmatisierung, die du ja schon an der einen oder anderen Stelle angesprochen hast. Ähm, begegnet dir so 'ne Stigmatisierung bewusst in deinem Alltag irgendwo oder hat sich das mittlerweile abgeschwächt? Wie ist das? Ich möchte Blicke gar nicht mehr so auf mich beziehen oder nicht den Fehler in mir suchen dann, wenn ich schräg angeschaut werde wegen irgendwas. Ich habe einfach mal gelesen, dass es, dass das, dass eine Stigmatisierungserfahrung nicht, ähm, aus einem Merkmal hervorgeht, das ich habe, sondern dass das vom Impuls des Gegenübers ausgeht, von 'ner bestimmten Sichtweise oder Wahrnehmung des Gegenübers, dass das erst einmal nichts mit mir zu tun hat, ja. Aber gleichwohl trägst du ja auch mit großem Bewusstsein und auch mit 'nem gewissen Stolz die grüne Schleife vom Aktionsbündnis Mentale Gesundheit, ne. Also, ähm, bist du denn darauf schon mal angesprochen worden oder nimmst du eine Resonanz wahr? Fällt vielleicht als kurzer Blick auf einfach. Wenn ich an Leuten vorbeigehe, dann fällt es denen kurz auf. Ich weiß aber nicht, ob sie sich dann damit näher beschäftigen, vielleicht kurz aufs Handy schauen oder so und das kurz nachschlagen auf Google oder so. Das ist schon so 'ne Art Resonanz Erfahrung, ja. Einfach so 'n Aspekt meines Daseins, den ich nicht verstecke. Aber ich weiß ja auch darum, dass zu 'nem allumfassenden Bild von mir gehören noch so viele andere Dinge. Wenn du zurückschaust jetzt, ähm, zum Beginn deiner Diagnose zumindest, was waren für dich die, die wichtigsten und die prägendsten Schritte in dieser Zeit von damals bis heute bis zu dem Punkt, an dem du jetzt stehst? Der wichtigste Schritt war-Erst einmal, als ich die Diagnose erhalten hab in der Klinik, ähm, nach und nach so Anrufe machen bei meiner Mutter und bei meinen Freunden, die dageblieben sind. Wir hatten sehr kurz, dass viele sich abgewendet haben. Ähm, und dann zu sagen, das und das ist jetzt die Diagnose und damit werd ich jetzt leben. Also wahrscheinlich auch erst mal das Annehmen der Diagnose, ne? Ja, ja. War das-- Entschuldige, da muss ich kurz, kurz noch mal zwischenfragen. Ja, es war so quasi, es war einfach, ich bin dann aufs Zimmer zurückgegangen. Ich bin oben beim Psychiater gewesen. Der hat mir dann die Diagnose mitgeteilt. Bin ich zurück auf mein Zimmer und saß erst mal so 'ne halbe Stunde auf der Bettkante. Hab das erst mal sacken lassen müssen so. Was war das, was waren die Hauptgefühle, die du in diesem Moment hattest? War's Erleichterung, weil jetzt hattest du Gewissheit? War's, war's Schock, weil jetzt hattest du's schwarz auf weiß? War's 'ne Mischung aus allem? Ich hatte, ich hatte, äh, ich hatte endlich 'n Begriff quasi. Der Begriff war mir schon bekannt, aber ich hab ihn nicht auf mich bezogen und dann hab ich ihn zum ersten Mal auf mich bezogen, dass das auf mich zutrifft. Dann hatt ich 'n Begriff, dann konnt ich etwas erklären, was damit zusammenhängt. Trotzdem war es schon 'n Schock, weil das einfach alles anders ist danach, ja. Weil vieles, weil ich vieles neu ordnen musste, mein ganzes Leben erst mal umkrempelte, viele Strategien oder Mechanismen dann erlernt habe. So was, was ich dann später auch in der Tagesklinik noch gelernt habe. So Dinge wie Schlafhygiene, abends 'n ruhigen Ausklang ohne viele Reize. Solche Dinge, so dieses sehr bewusste Umgang mit sich selbst, den ich früher nicht hatte. Ja. Welchen Stellenwert nimmt deine Erkrankung in deinem Leben ein? Gespräche kommen schon noch darauf zurück mit meiner Mutter, mit meinen Freunden, aber ich hab's integriert quasi in mein Selbst und weil es, hab das, ich glaub, das hab ich jetzt schon öfters gesagt, das ist ein Teil und dazu kommen noch viele andere Teile. Weil ich glaub, das ist ganz arg witzig, äh, wichtig, dass man das so integriert, dass das sich nicht abstößt. Das geht natürlich mit Akzeptanz einher. Vor etwa zehn Jahren hattest du mit dieser Diagnose einen, einen, einen großen Wandel in deinem Leben, weil dann konntest du den Dingen einen Namen geben, wie du's grade so schön beschrieben hast. Wenn wir jetzt mal zehn Jahre in die Zukunft versuchen zu schauen, was, wo siehst du dich da? Wo ich mich in zehn Jahren sehe? Ich weiß nicht, 'n bisschen, dass ich dem zufall, einfach wo es mich hintreiben wird. Ja, dass ich diesen Umgang, den ich jetzt mit mir selbst gefunden habe und anderen, dass ich den nicht wieder verliere, weil der mir sehr viel gebracht hat. Max, hab vielen lieben Dank für deine Offenheit, dass du uns so in dein Leben hast reinschauen lassen. Alles, alles Gute, alles Liebe für dich. 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