diff --git "a/data/FVmT_bVwod0_001/metadata.json" "b/data/FVmT_bVwod0_001/metadata.json" new file mode 100644--- /dev/null +++ "b/data/FVmT_bVwod0_001/metadata.json" @@ -0,0 +1,61173 @@ +{ + "sample_id": "FVmT_bVwod0_001", + "video_id": "FVmT_bVwod0", + "video_title": "Social phobia: When small talk triggers panic | no stigma!", + "chapter_title": "Mandy's Story", + "chapter_start_sec": 65.0, + "chapter_end_sec": 1298.0, + "audio_file": "001 Mandy's Story.mp3", + "srt_file": "001 Mandy's Story.srt", + "language_code": "de", + "diarize": true, + "elevenlabs_model_id": "scribe_v2", + "created_at_utc": "2026-03-25T16:35:12.352134+00:00", + "transcript_text": "Vielleicht so zu den harten Fakten. Du heißt Mandy, wir sind in Braunschweig und du bist achtundzwanzig Jahre alt. Warum sind wir bei dir? Weil ich eine soziale Angststörung habe. Also sind so irgendwie alle sozialen Situationen schwierig. Vor allem vor anderen Menschen zu sprechen, ist für mich schwierig, wenn es irgendwie mehr als nur ein Zweiergespräch ist. Aber auch, ja, so was wie Einkaufen gehen, beim Bäcker irgendwie ein Brötchen bestellen, sind auch so Sachen, die sehr schwierig sind. Telefonieren, so was alles. Also wenn ich mir das so anhöre, dann bist du ja jetzt gerade in einer Situation, die eigentlich für dich wahrscheinlich recht unangenehm ist, ne. Es sind zwei Menschen, die du jetzt noch nicht wirklich gut kennst. Du sprichst über deine Erkrankung und, äh, da bleibt nicht viel übrig zum Wohlfühlen, oder? Wie, wie sieht das momentan für dich aus? Ja, ich merke schon, dass ich sehr angespannt bin und sehr aufgeregt. Es ist für mich immer ein bisschen leichter, wenn die Angststörung selbst das Thema ist, weil ich immer denke, dass andere Menschen das dann, ja, so, ähm, wenn man sich irgendwie vielleicht durch die Angst irgendwie ein bisschen komisch verhält oder so, das dann besser einschätzen können auch, wieso, ja, man irgendwie so angespannt wirkt. Wie lange lebst du denn schon mit dieser Angst? Die Angst begleitet mich eigentlich schon so mein Leben lang. Also ich kenne es gar nicht wirklich ohne Angst. Also ich war immer schon sehr schüchtern und ängstlich. Vielleicht immer stärker geworden, bis es dann eine Angststörung war. Aber ich habe auch erst recht spät erfahren, dass es, ja, einen Begriff dafür gibt und dass es wirklich dann auch eine Erkrankung ist. Du warst dann etwa zwanzig, ne, als das passiert ist. Genau. Ähm, gibt es im Zuge dieser Diagnose, die ja dann gestellt worden ist, gab es da auch eine Ursachenforschung, wo es herkommen könnte? Weißt du da was drüber? Ich würde sagen, es sind so viele verschiedene Aspekte. Also dann spielen natürlich irgendwie alle Erfahrungen, die man irgendwie macht, wie man aufwächst und so, da mit rein. Als du deine Diagnose bekommen hast, du bist eigentlich wegen einer anderen Geschichte zum Arzt gegangen. Das war sozusagen eher ein, eine Zufallsdiagnose. Kann man das so formulieren? Ursprünglich, die erste Therapie habe ich wegen einer Essstörung gemacht und inhaltlich ging es da auch schon viel eigentlich um die Ängste, aber die Therapeutin hat das irgendwie auch nicht so ernst genommen und nur so als sehr schüchtern abgestempelt und gesagt: „Ja, geh mal irgendwie nach draußen auf die Straße und frag jemand nach der Uhrzeit.\" Und dann erst in der zweiten Therapie, da nach ein paar Monaten kam es dann zur Sprache, dass die Therapeutin dann so ihren ICD-Katalog rausgeholt hat und die ganzen Kriterien durchgegangen ist und ich sollte bei jedem sagen: „Ja, trifft das auf mich zu oder nicht?\" Und ich war die ganze Zeit nur am Nicken und dann war es okay, jetzt hat das Kind endlich einen Namen. Ich hatte damals dann auch so ein bisschen die naive Hoffnung: Na ja, wenn es eine Erkrankung ist, kann man auch was dagegen tun und, ähm, dann gehen die Ängste auch wieder ganz weg. Wenn du es heute so sagst, ich hatte damals die naive Hoffnung, dann legt das nahe, dass es nicht so gekommen ist. Nee, ich glaube auch, dass die Ängste nie ganz weggehen werden. Dafür sind sie schon zu lange da. Ich glaube, es geht eher so darum, einen Umgang damit zu finden, wie man es schafft, trotzdem irgendwie so das Leben möglichst so zu leben, wie man es möchte und sich nicht zu doll davon einschränken zu lassen. Was sind denn Strukturen, was sind Spielregeln, nach denen du dein Leben sozusagen organisierst, um mit deiner Angststörung umzugehen? Ich glaube, ich bin inzwischen ganz gut darin, Sachen trotzdem zu machen, wenn sie mir sehr wichtig sind und am Herzen liegen. Ja, auch wenn ich das auch oft nicht so, nicht so sehen will, aber Übung hilft halt schon und sich immer wieder Situationen zu stellen, auch wenn's halt, ja, auch einfach super anstrengend ist. Es hat ja nicht nur Auswirkungen auf die Gedanken, sondern man spürt die Angst ja auch körperlich. Und da dann auch so Strategien zu entwickeln. Ja, hier zum Beispiel. Ein Spikeball. Ja, dann so, um die Anspannung so ein bisschen zu regulieren. Oder ich habe auch so Therapieknete, um dann so die Anspannung rauszukneten. Das ist dann ganz hilfreich. Ich kann mir vorstellen, dass wenn man in einer Therapie ist, begegnet man ja auch Menschen, die eine ähnliche Erkrankung haben, die eine ähnliche Problematik mit, mit Ängsten haben. Wie heilsam ist das, wenn man feststellt, man ist nicht alleine? Ich war dann irgendwann auch in einer Selbsthilfegruppe und, ähm, habe da andere Leute kennengelernt und das tat sehr gut zu merken, dass man damit nicht alleine ist, dass es anderen auch so geht und dass die einen auch wirklich verstehen können. Ich find's auch immer irgendwie hilfreicher oder bin offener, neue Sachen und Strategien auszuprobieren, wenn ich weiß, das hat schon jemand anderes, der es wirklich aus Betroffenensicht kennt, auch ausprobiert. Aus dieser Selbsthilfegruppe gab es nicht nur den Impuls, der dir den Umgang mit, den Umgang mit der Angst erleichtert hat, sondern, äh, es gab auch einen Impuls, der ganz positiv für, für dein persönliches Leben ist. Du weißt, worauf ich anspiele. Ja, genau. Ich habe, ähm, über die Selbsthilfegruppe auch meinen Freund kennengelernt. Was bedeutet euch beiden, dass der oder die jeweils andere da eine Kompetenz und einen gemeinsamen Verstehenshorizont hat? Dadurch war erst mal auch von Anfang an direkt schon so eine Verbindung da. Weil ich glaube sonst oder ich merke das auch sonst in anderen Kontexten, dass es schon auch dauert, bis man irgendwie sagt: „Okay, ich habe eine Angststörung.\" Weil man dann ja auch nie so weiß, wie reagieren die Leute. Also ich finde, man merkt manchmal auch bei uns in unseren Gesprächen, dass wir beide Therapieerfahrung haben, so von der Art, wie wir irgendwie-Fragen stellen oder dann halt auch, wenn man irgendwie sagt: „Ja, da habe ich richtig Angst vor und ich bin aufgeregt\", und so, dass der andere dann so weiß auch, wie er das gut hinterfragen kann. Mhm. Neben der Tatsache, dass du dich natürlich über die lange Zeit, die du dich schon mit deiner Krankheit auseinandersetzen musst, ähm, nicht nur damit beschäftigt, sondern du hast auch einen Weg gesucht und gefunden. Vielleicht gehen wir mal da rüber. Da ist nämlich, äh, dein, dein, dein Rechner. Darauf will ich, äh, zu sprechen kommen. Du gehst nach draußen und das ist jetzt 'ne Geschichte, wo man sagt: „Okay, wenn man, wenn man eine soziale Phobie hat und ja an vielen Stellen unter Umständen Öffentlichkeit und, und die Aufmerksamkeit von, von anderen Menschen meidet, dann klingt es erstaunlich, dass du diese Öffentlichkeit ganz bewusst suchst. Warum machst du das? Und vielleicht vorausgeschickt: Erzähl uns mal ein bisschen was über den Kanal, den du da betreibst. Ja, also es hat sich so über viele Jahre entwickelt und ich hatte nämlich damals gesehen, also das hatte auch mit der Essstörung angefangen, dass es andere Leute gibt, die auf Instagram über ihre Erkrankung schreiben und sich dann in Kommentaren auch gegenseitig Mut machen. Und das fand ich irgendwie sehr schön und habe gedacht: „Okay, vielleicht hilft mir das auch.\" Wenn ich da kurz einhaken darf: Du bist also letztendlich damals aus der Überlegung reingegangen, vielleicht hilft es dir. Es ging dir jetzt gar nicht mal so darum, vielleicht hilft es großartig anderen, sondern es ging tatsächlich erst mal um eine Geschichte, die gut für dich ist. Genau. Der Account war auch anonym. Also damals hätte ich mir nicht vorstellen können, irgendwie da mit Namen und Gesicht aufzutauchen. War es eher so durch meine Ehrenämter. Ich war beim Bundestreffen der Jungen Selbsthilfe und da sind auch so verschiedene Projekte entstanden, auch der Junge Selbsthilfe Blog, wo ich mitschreibe. Da ging's so viel um, ja, es muss Leute geben, die in der Öffentlichkeit auch darüber sprechen, um, ja, Anti-Stigma-Arbeit zu leisten. Dann hatte ich irgendwann auch meinen Namen dastehen, mein Gesicht gezeigt und je nachdem auch, was grad so in meinem Leben mehr Raum einnimmt, hat sich das dann auch von den Themen her so entwickelt, dass es dann irgendwie auch mehr in Richtung Angststörung ging. Dadurch ist dann auch eher so der Wunsch entstanden, damit auch vielleicht anderen zu helfen, wenn sie von meinen Erfahrungen lesen und sich dann auch nicht so alleine fühlen. Also ist zumindest auch die Reaktion, die ich in Nachrichten bekomme, was mich dann auch immer sehr freut. Wir haben jetzt viel darüber gesprochen. Können wir einfach kurz einen Blick drauf werfen. Wie oft pro Woche sitzt du quasi davor als Mutsammlerin und, und postest oder bist für die Menschen, die dir folgen, da? In letzter Zeit ist es eher weniger, dass ich was poste, weil's irgendwie auch, ja schon auch Mut braucht, sich da irgendwie zu zeigen oder ich dann auch schnell denke: „Ja, ach, interessiert auch niemanden.\" In welchen Lebenssituationen, Arbeitssituationen ist dir denn so eine Stigmatisierung persönlich schon begegnet? Und wie sah die aus? Bei Praktika innerhalb der Familie. Na ja, so Aussagen wie, ähm: „Du stellst dich nur an. So mach das doch einfach.\" Oder: „Ja, die sind doch, also psychisch Kranke sind ja eh alle gestört. Ja, die wollen nur Aufmerksamkeit.\" So in diese Richtung. Machen dich solche Aussagen eher traurig oder eher wütend? Also ich würde gern was dagegen sagen, aber da steht mir oft dann auch die soziale Angst im Weg, weil man sich ja auch verletzlich macht und angreifbar, wenn man sagt: „So ja, ich bin auch betroffen und das ist so und so.\" Und manchmal ist man auch einfach fassungslos und sprachlos, was so gesagt wird. Deshalb ist es umso wichtiger, dass ich auch öffentlich darüber spreche. Wir kommen mal noch zu einem ganz anderen, äh, Aspekt. Wir kommen zu deinem Job. Also vielleicht holst du uns erst mal ins Boot. Was machst du? Als was arbeitest du? Ähm, also ich habe zwei Jobs. Ich habe ein Volontariat in der Unternehmenskommunikation gemacht und arbeite jetzt an einer Hochschule in der Hochschulkommunikation und, ähm, ich mache die Öffentlichkeitsarbeit für die Selbsthilfeakademie Sachsen. Genau mein Thema. Aber wieso Sachsen? Das ist ja ganz lustig. Das ist ja ein falsches, völlig falsches Bundesland. Ja. Also wir kommen aus Sachsen, wir kommen aus Leipzig. Das ist ja interessant. Das heißt also, du bist in, in, in auch in deinem Job in einem sehr, sehr kommunikativen Bereich angesiedelt. Sollte man im ersten Moment eigentlich gar nicht vermuten, wenn man weiß, dass dir genau diese Geschichten eben unter Umständen auch ein bisschen schwerer fallen als, als vielen anderen Menschen, die vielleicht, äh, in solchen Bereichen arbeiten. Trotzdem ist es für dich nicht nur 'ne Aufgabe, sondern offensichtlich möchtest du das auch ganz unbedingt. Warum? Hol uns da noch mal ins Boot, bitte. Mhm. Also es war schon immer so von den Aufgaben her der Bereich, der mir am meisten Spaß gemacht hat. So Texte schreiben, Artikel schreiben und eigentlich auch, ja, Geschichten von anderen Menschen erfahren und, ähm, denen zuhören und daraus dann irgendwie was, 'ne schöne Geschichte schreiben. Es ist schon auch sehr herausfordernd, gerade wenn man schon auch telefonieren muss viel oder Interviews führen. Ja, ich habe mir dann auch gedacht, ich will mich auch nicht so von der Angststörung so einschränken lassen und trotzdem das machen, was mir eigentlich Spaß macht. Es fällt mir deutlich leichter inzwischen, dann bei der Arbeit irgendwen anzurufen, als jetzt privat einen Arzttermin zum Beispiel auszumachen. Klar, weil dann ist es sozusagen Bestandteil deines Jobs und deiner Funktion und hat damit irgendwie einen anderen Stellenwert. Und so bin ich halt dann so die Privatperson. Und weil man, ja, weil man so in so eine Rolle so ein bisschen schlüpfen kann, das macht es ein bisschen einfacher. Welche Rolle spielt's, dass man hier ein bisschen weg ist von den Menschen und vom Trubel?Das ist ganz angenehm, weil man dann wirklich so auch zur Ruhe kommen kann. Ich find, das macht es irgendwie leichter, dann auch, ja, so Achtsamkeitsmomente zu erleben. Ja. Wenn du spazieren gehst, hier zum Beispiel am Mittellandkanal, gehst du dann bevorzugt alleine oder gehst du dann eher mit deinem Freund? Beides, also immer unterschiedlich. Ähm, ich find's auch schön zu zweit, ist man irgendwie auch motivierter, dann auch wirklich loszugehen. Mhm. Ähm, aber ich mag's auch alleine gern, um irgendwie, ja, einfach zur Ruhe zu kommen, nachzudenken, Projekte mir zu überlegen. Also meine Schwester und ich haben angefangen, zusammen ein Buch zu schreiben. Wow. Und, ähm, ich find, so wenn man dann irgendwie so spazieren geht und es ist so 'ne ruhige Atmosphäre, kann man richtig gut nachdenken und auf Ideen kommen. Darf ich fragen, worum's geht in dem Buch? Ähm, es wird ein Thriller und der spielt in einem Buchladen. Oh, wow. Sehr, sehr gespannt. Ist grade Leipziger Buchmesse, also vielleicht in 'nem Jahr oder zwei bist du mit deiner Schwester dann da. Na ja, als Leseratte, wie du's ja bist, äh, kann ich es durchaus nachvollziehen. Du hattest vorhin schon gesagt, dass solche Wege wie zum Beispiel der vermeintlich leichte Weg zum Bäcker für dich Wege sind, die gar nicht so leicht sind. Warum? Weil es mit Ängsten verbunden ist. Also vor allem die Sorge, dass wenn ich dran bin, dass ich nicht, also dass ich plötzlich irgendwie nicht mehr sprechen kann, weil die Angst so stark ist. Auch vor allem, dass man mir die Angst anmerkt. Und in dem Moment ist es ja dann irgendwie eigentlich keine Situation, vor der man Angst haben sollte so. Stellst du dich diesen Ängsten dann bewusst oder, äh, gehst du in 'ne Vermeidung rein? Inzwischen mache ich die Sachen oft trotzdem. Wenn ich zum Beispiel verreise, dann gehe ich vorher schon zum Bäcker, weil ich auch weiß, dass es wichtig ist, sich immer wieder solchen Situationen zu stellen. Und eigentlich weiß ich ja auch, dass nichts Schlimmes passiert. Also ich hab's ja immer überlebt. Es ist eigentlich noch nie vorgekommen, dass ich dann plötzlich nicht mehr wusste, was ich sagen soll. Aber, ja, die Ängste sind halt trotzdem so in den Gedanken da. Du hattest vorhin bei dir zu Hause schon drüber gesprochen, dass du zurzeit auch wieder in einer Therapie bist, das auch nicht die erste Therapie ist. Was bedeutet dir das, in einer Therapie zu sein? Ist das 'n, 'n sicherer Anker? Ist das, äh, 'ne Vorbereitung auf ein Leben danach? Es gibt schon Sicherheit. Ich hab jetzt auch nur noch fünf Stunden, also es ist kurz vor Therapieende. Du sagst das lächelnd. Freust du dich drauf auf Therapieende oder ist es auch so ein bisschen wehmut- Nee, es ist eher die Unsicherheit. Ja, okay. Weil's schon irgendwie Sicherheit gibt. Also meine Therapeutin auch sagt, ich kenn die ganzen Strategien. Ich muss halt dann nur, ja, drauf kommen, sie anzuwenden und das irgendwie mehr in den Alltag zu integrieren. Therapie ist ja auch, wenn man sie hat, ich hab's jetzt auch nur alle paar Wochen nur noch. Es ist eine Stunde oder sogar nur fünfzig Minuten in paar Wochen. Mhm. Und der Rest, die restliche Zeit schaff ich's ja auch alleine so. Ja. Neben der Therapie, die du machst, ähm, nimmst du ja auch noch Medikamente. Ähm, was machen diese Medikamente mit dir? Ähm, wie lange musst du sie nehmen? Besteht die Möglichkeit, sie irgendwann vielleicht nicht mehr nehmen zu müssen? Bestimmt. Also meine Psychiaterin will die auch reduzieren. Haben wir ausprobiert, hat nicht so funktioniert, weil ich dann gemerkt hab, dass so die innere Anspannung wieder viel stärker war. Also ich hab so ständig gemerkt, wenn ich irgendwo einfach nur saß, eigentlich entspannt zu Hause, dass ich trotzdem so richtig angespannt auch die Hände hatte. Und ja, das ist dann wieder so 'n bisschen besser geworden, als ich wieder erhöht habe. Am Anfang hatte ich auch Bedenken, weil man schon auch so Vorurteile hat, so was Medikamente angeht. Aber inzwischen, dadurch, dass ich auch so viele andere Medikamente wegen meinem Rheuma nehmen muss, ist es halt einfach eine Tablette mehr und einfach ein Hilfsmittel. Und wenn's hilft, warum sollte man's nicht nehmen? Du bist jetzt seit zwei Jahren, glaube ich, hier in Braunschweig. Einem Jahr. Einem, seit einem Jahr. Von Bielefeld. Genau. Und fühlst du dich hier schon so richtig angekommen oder suchst du noch nach den Plätzen, die für dich zu Hause bedeuten? Zu Hause in der Wohnung und mit meinem Freund fühle ich mich auf jeden Fall angekommen. Aber, ja, mir fehlt noch irgendwie so 'n Freundeskreis. Mhm. Vor allem durch die Ehrenämter viele Freundschaften entstanden sind oder halt auch über Social Media. Die wohnen ja auch alle so in Deutschland verteilt und man kann sich nicht so oft sehen. Ja. Und das fehlt mir schon auch irgendwie, ja, Kontakte hier vor Ort zu haben. Aber ist ja irgendwie auch, also generell super schwierig, wie lernt man Leute kennen und erst recht, wenn man eine soziale Angststörung hat. Also, ähm, es hat sich hier so 'n Buchclub gegründet. Bisher konnt ich noch nicht teilnehmen, aber, ja, da hoffe ich, dass ich dann auch Menschen kennenlerne und dass vielleicht auch Kontakte entstehen, die nicht über irgendeine Erkrankung entstehen, sondern über so 'n gemeinsames Hobby, was ich bisher ja dann immer übers Tanzen auch hatte und dann jetzt vielleicht auch übers Lesen. Ja. Weißt du, was du ansonsten machst, äh, quasi, um deiner Angst zu begegnen oder ihr die Stirn zu bieten und, äh, in eine andere Beschäftigungsform reinzukommen? Ich glaube, da kannst du uns bei dir zu Hause noch 'n bisschen was dazu erzählen. Ja. Bin sehr, sehr gespannt. So, klassich, können wir 'ne Runde spazieren gehen. Mandy, wenn man sich bei dir umguckt, dann sieht man, äh, du liebst offensichtlich Handarbeiten, ne. Also Puzzle, würd ich mal schätzen, hast du gemacht. Ja. Und jetzt aufm Tisch zum Beispiel sieht man, womit du dir ansonsten die Zeit vertreibst. Irgendwie, wie nennt sich das? Malen nach Zahlen. Malen nach Zahlen, Stricken. Hier liegen auch also so handwerkliche Dinge. Warum ist dir das wichtig? Wenn zum Beispiel die Ängste stark sind, hilft es mir-Irgendwas Kreatives zu machen, grade auch, ja, dass die Hände irgendwie beschäftigt sind und weil man dann auch sieht, dass man was geschaffen hat. Es gibt mir immer 'n gutes Gefühl, dass dabei dann so was Schönes daraus entstehen kann. Also grade auch so, wenn man häkelt. Die hast du auch selber gemacht? Genau. Ah, krass. Wenn man so einzelne Teile irgendwie macht und wie man dann so sieht, wie aus der Wolle dann einfach am Ende so 'ne Figur entsteht. Merkst du eigentlich, wenn sich die Angst so anschleicht oder ist die urplötzlich da? Also hast du so Mechanismen schon entwickeln können? Meistens schleicht sie sich an und wird dann immer stärker. Ich glaub, inzwischen kann ich es dann auch auf jeden Fall schon besser rechtzeitig merken und weiß dann, okay, jetzt sollte ich irgendwie, ja, irgendwas tun, um auch wieder bisschen ruhiger zu werden. Ähm, weil, ja, wenn irgendwann so dieser Punkt überschritten ist, dann ist es, glaub ich, auch schwierig, das selbst so zu merken oder dann helfen irgendwie auch nicht mehr so wirklich die Skills, die man so hat. Wenn du jetzt in deine ganz persönliche Zukunft oder in die Zukunft mit deinem Freund guckst, wo siehst du dich oder wo siehst du euch in fünf, in zehn Jahren? Ich hoffe, dass ich möglichst glücklich bin und, ähm, ja, weiterhin mutig immer wieder und vielleicht noch 'n besseren Umgang mit den Ängsten finde beziehungsweise vor allem mehr Verständnis für mich selbst habe und mehr Nachsicht auch mit mir und, ja, Verständnis auch dafür, dass für mich viele Sachen einfach schwieriger sind als für andere. Mandy, hab vielen lieben Dank, dass du den Mut hattest, heute mit uns den Tag zu verbringen und uns wirklich tief in, in deinen Gedanken, in deine Gedankenwelt reinschauen zu lassen. Vielen lieben Dank an, äh, gemeinsam mit deinem Freund, aber natürlich auch für die vielen Projekte, die du angeschoben hast, äh, auf ehrenamtlicher Ebene. Toi toi toi und alles Gute und auch da viel, viel Kraft und weiterhin viel Mut. Danke schön. Wir haben eine sehr mutige Mandy heute kommen lassen dürfen. Vielen lieben Dank. Sehr cool.", + "raw_asr_payload": { + "language_code": "deu", + "language_probability": 1.0, + "text": "Vielleicht so zu den harten Fakten. Du heißt Mandy, wir sind in Braunschweig und du bist achtundzwanzig Jahre alt. Warum sind wir bei dir? Weil ich eine soziale Angststörung habe. Also sind so irgendwie alle sozialen Situationen schwierig. Vor allem vor anderen Menschen zu sprechen, ist für mich schwierig, wenn es irgendwie mehr als nur ein Zweiergespräch ist. Aber auch, ja, so was wie Einkaufen gehen, beim Bäcker irgendwie ein Brötchen bestellen, sind auch so Sachen, die sehr schwierig sind. Telefonieren, so was alles. Also wenn ich mir das so anhöre, dann bist du ja jetzt gerade in einer Situation, die eigentlich für dich wahrscheinlich recht unangenehm ist, ne. Es sind zwei Menschen, die du jetzt noch nicht wirklich gut kennst. Du sprichst über deine Erkrankung und, äh, da bleibt nicht viel übrig zum Wohlfühlen, oder? Wie, wie sieht das momentan für dich aus? Ja, ich merke schon, dass ich sehr angespannt bin und sehr aufgeregt. Es ist für mich immer ein bisschen leichter, wenn die Angststörung selbst das Thema ist, weil ich immer denke, dass andere Menschen das dann, ja, so, ähm, wenn man sich irgendwie vielleicht durch die Angst irgendwie ein bisschen komisch verhält oder so, das dann besser einschätzen können auch, wieso, ja, man irgendwie so angespannt wirkt. Wie lange lebst du denn schon mit dieser Angst? Die Angst begleitet mich eigentlich schon so mein Leben lang. Also ich kenne es gar nicht wirklich ohne Angst. Also ich war immer schon sehr schüchtern und ängstlich. Vielleicht immer stärker geworden, bis es dann eine Angststörung war. Aber ich habe auch erst recht spät erfahren, dass es, ja, einen Begriff dafür gibt und dass es wirklich dann auch eine Erkrankung ist. Du warst dann etwa zwanzig, ne, als das passiert ist. Genau. Ähm, gibt es im Zuge dieser Diagnose, die ja dann gestellt worden ist, gab es da auch eine Ursachenforschung, wo es herkommen könnte? Weißt du da was drüber? Ich würde sagen, es sind so viele verschiedene Aspekte. Also dann spielen natürlich irgendwie alle Erfahrungen, die man irgendwie macht, wie man aufwächst und so, da mit rein. Als du deine Diagnose bekommen hast, du bist eigentlich wegen einer anderen Geschichte zum Arzt gegangen. Das war sozusagen eher ein, eine Zufallsdiagnose. Kann man das so formulieren? Ursprünglich, die erste Therapie habe ich wegen einer Essstörung gemacht und inhaltlich ging es da auch schon viel eigentlich um die Ängste, aber die Therapeutin hat das irgendwie auch nicht so ernst genommen und nur so als sehr schüchtern abgestempelt und gesagt: „Ja, geh mal irgendwie nach draußen auf die Straße und frag jemand nach der Uhrzeit.\" Und dann erst in der zweiten Therapie, da nach ein paar Monaten kam es dann zur Sprache, dass die Therapeutin dann so ihren ICD-Katalog rausgeholt hat und die ganzen Kriterien durchgegangen ist und ich sollte bei jedem sagen: „Ja, trifft das auf mich zu oder nicht?\" Und ich war die ganze Zeit nur am Nicken und dann war es okay, jetzt hat das Kind endlich einen Namen. Ich hatte damals dann auch so ein bisschen die naive Hoffnung: Na ja, wenn es eine Erkrankung ist, kann man auch was dagegen tun und, ähm, dann gehen die Ängste auch wieder ganz weg. Wenn du es heute so sagst, ich hatte damals die naive Hoffnung, dann legt das nahe, dass es nicht so gekommen ist. Nee, ich glaube auch, dass die Ängste nie ganz weggehen werden. Dafür sind sie schon zu lange da. Ich glaube, es geht eher so darum, einen Umgang damit zu finden, wie man es schafft, trotzdem irgendwie so das Leben möglichst so zu leben, wie man es möchte und sich nicht zu doll davon einschränken zu lassen. Was sind denn Strukturen, was sind Spielregeln, nach denen du dein Leben sozusagen organisierst, um mit deiner Angststörung umzugehen? Ich glaube, ich bin inzwischen ganz gut darin, Sachen trotzdem zu machen, wenn sie mir sehr wichtig sind und am Herzen liegen. Ja, auch wenn ich das auch oft nicht so, nicht so sehen will, aber Übung hilft halt schon und sich immer wieder Situationen zu stellen, auch wenn's halt, ja, auch einfach super anstrengend ist. Es hat ja nicht nur Auswirkungen auf die Gedanken, sondern man spürt die Angst ja auch körperlich. Und da dann auch so Strategien zu entwickeln. Ja, hier zum Beispiel. Ein Spikeball. Ja, dann so, um die Anspannung so ein bisschen zu regulieren. Oder ich habe auch so Therapieknete, um dann so die Anspannung rauszukneten. Das ist dann ganz hilfreich. Ich kann mir vorstellen, dass wenn man in einer Therapie ist, begegnet man ja auch Menschen, die eine ähnliche Erkrankung haben, die eine ähnliche Problematik mit, mit Ängsten haben. Wie heilsam ist das, wenn man feststellt, man ist nicht alleine? Ich war dann irgendwann auch in einer Selbsthilfegruppe und, ähm, habe da andere Leute kennengelernt und das tat sehr gut zu merken, dass man damit nicht alleine ist, dass es anderen auch so geht und dass die einen auch wirklich verstehen können. Ich find's auch immer irgendwie hilfreicher oder bin offener, neue Sachen und Strategien auszuprobieren, wenn ich weiß, das hat schon jemand anderes, der es wirklich aus Betroffenensicht kennt, auch ausprobiert. Aus dieser Selbsthilfegruppe gab es nicht nur den Impuls, der dir den Umgang mit, den Umgang mit der Angst erleichtert hat, sondern, äh, es gab auch einen Impuls, der ganz positiv für, für dein persönliches Leben ist. Du weißt, worauf ich anspiele. Ja, genau. Ich habe, ähm, über die Selbsthilfegruppe auch meinen Freund kennengelernt. Was bedeutet euch beiden, dass der oder die jeweils andere da eine Kompetenz und einen gemeinsamen Verstehenshorizont hat? Dadurch war erst mal auch von Anfang an direkt schon so eine Verbindung da. Weil ich glaube sonst oder ich merke das auch sonst in anderen Kontexten, dass es schon auch dauert, bis man irgendwie sagt: „Okay, ich habe eine Angststörung.\" Weil man dann ja auch nie so weiß, wie reagieren die Leute. Also ich finde, man merkt manchmal auch bei uns in unseren Gesprächen, dass wir beide Therapieerfahrung haben, so von der Art, wie wir irgendwie-Fragen stellen oder dann halt auch, wenn man irgendwie sagt: „Ja, da habe ich richtig Angst vor und ich bin aufgeregt\", und so, dass der andere dann so weiß auch, wie er das gut hinterfragen kann. Mhm. Neben der Tatsache, dass du dich natürlich über die lange Zeit, die du dich schon mit deiner Krankheit auseinandersetzen musst, ähm, nicht nur damit beschäftigt, sondern du hast auch einen Weg gesucht und gefunden. Vielleicht gehen wir mal da rüber. Da ist nämlich, äh, dein, dein, dein Rechner. Darauf will ich, äh, zu sprechen kommen. Du gehst nach draußen und das ist jetzt 'ne Geschichte, wo man sagt: „Okay, wenn man, wenn man eine soziale Phobie hat und ja an vielen Stellen unter Umständen Öffentlichkeit und, und die Aufmerksamkeit von, von anderen Menschen meidet, dann klingt es erstaunlich, dass du diese Öffentlichkeit ganz bewusst suchst. Warum machst du das? Und vielleicht vorausgeschickt: Erzähl uns mal ein bisschen was über den Kanal, den du da betreibst. Ja, also es hat sich so über viele Jahre entwickelt und ich hatte nämlich damals gesehen, also das hatte auch mit der Essstörung angefangen, dass es andere Leute gibt, die auf Instagram über ihre Erkrankung schreiben und sich dann in Kommentaren auch gegenseitig Mut machen. Und das fand ich irgendwie sehr schön und habe gedacht: „Okay, vielleicht hilft mir das auch.\" Wenn ich da kurz einhaken darf: Du bist also letztendlich damals aus der Überlegung reingegangen, vielleicht hilft es dir. Es ging dir jetzt gar nicht mal so darum, vielleicht hilft es großartig anderen, sondern es ging tatsächlich erst mal um eine Geschichte, die gut für dich ist. Genau. Der Account war auch anonym. Also damals hätte ich mir nicht vorstellen können, irgendwie da mit Namen und Gesicht aufzutauchen. War es eher so durch meine Ehrenämter. Ich war beim Bundestreffen der Jungen Selbsthilfe und da sind auch so verschiedene Projekte entstanden, auch der Junge Selbsthilfe Blog, wo ich mitschreibe. Da ging's so viel um, ja, es muss Leute geben, die in der Öffentlichkeit auch darüber sprechen, um, ja, Anti-Stigma-Arbeit zu leisten. Dann hatte ich irgendwann auch meinen Namen dastehen, mein Gesicht gezeigt und je nachdem auch, was grad so in meinem Leben mehr Raum einnimmt, hat sich das dann auch von den Themen her so entwickelt, dass es dann irgendwie auch mehr in Richtung Angststörung ging. Dadurch ist dann auch eher so der Wunsch entstanden, damit auch vielleicht anderen zu helfen, wenn sie von meinen Erfahrungen lesen und sich dann auch nicht so alleine fühlen. Also ist zumindest auch die Reaktion, die ich in Nachrichten bekomme, was mich dann auch immer sehr freut. Wir haben jetzt viel darüber gesprochen. Können wir einfach kurz einen Blick drauf werfen. Wie oft pro Woche sitzt du quasi davor als Mutsammlerin und, und postest oder bist für die Menschen, die dir folgen, da? In letzter Zeit ist es eher weniger, dass ich was poste, weil's irgendwie auch, ja schon auch Mut braucht, sich da irgendwie zu zeigen oder ich dann auch schnell denke: „Ja, ach, interessiert auch niemanden.\" In welchen Lebenssituationen, Arbeitssituationen ist dir denn so eine Stigmatisierung persönlich schon begegnet? Und wie sah die aus? Bei Praktika innerhalb der Familie. Na ja, so Aussagen wie, ähm: „Du stellst dich nur an. So mach das doch einfach.\" Oder: „Ja, die sind doch, also psychisch Kranke sind ja eh alle gestört. Ja, die wollen nur Aufmerksamkeit.\" So in diese Richtung. Machen dich solche Aussagen eher traurig oder eher wütend? Also ich würde gern was dagegen sagen, aber da steht mir oft dann auch die soziale Angst im Weg, weil man sich ja auch verletzlich macht und angreifbar, wenn man sagt: „So ja, ich bin auch betroffen und das ist so und so.\" Und manchmal ist man auch einfach fassungslos und sprachlos, was so gesagt wird. Deshalb ist es umso wichtiger, dass ich auch öffentlich darüber spreche. Wir kommen mal noch zu einem ganz anderen, äh, Aspekt. Wir kommen zu deinem Job. Also vielleicht holst du uns erst mal ins Boot. Was machst du? Als was arbeitest du? Ähm, also ich habe zwei Jobs. Ich habe ein Volontariat in der Unternehmenskommunikation gemacht und arbeite jetzt an einer Hochschule in der Hochschulkommunikation und, ähm, ich mache die Öffentlichkeitsarbeit für die Selbsthilfeakademie Sachsen. Genau mein Thema. Aber wieso Sachsen? Das ist ja ganz lustig. Das ist ja ein falsches, völlig falsches Bundesland. Ja. Also wir kommen aus Sachsen, wir kommen aus Leipzig. Das ist ja interessant. Das heißt also, du bist in, in, in auch in deinem Job in einem sehr, sehr kommunikativen Bereich angesiedelt. Sollte man im ersten Moment eigentlich gar nicht vermuten, wenn man weiß, dass dir genau diese Geschichten eben unter Umständen auch ein bisschen schwerer fallen als, als vielen anderen Menschen, die vielleicht, äh, in solchen Bereichen arbeiten. Trotzdem ist es für dich nicht nur 'ne Aufgabe, sondern offensichtlich möchtest du das auch ganz unbedingt. Warum? Hol uns da noch mal ins Boot, bitte. Mhm. Also es war schon immer so von den Aufgaben her der Bereich, der mir am meisten Spaß gemacht hat. So Texte schreiben, Artikel schreiben und eigentlich auch, ja, Geschichten von anderen Menschen erfahren und, ähm, denen zuhören und daraus dann irgendwie was, 'ne schöne Geschichte schreiben. Es ist schon auch sehr herausfordernd, gerade wenn man schon auch telefonieren muss viel oder Interviews führen. Ja, ich habe mir dann auch gedacht, ich will mich auch nicht so von der Angststörung so einschränken lassen und trotzdem das machen, was mir eigentlich Spaß macht. Es fällt mir deutlich leichter inzwischen, dann bei der Arbeit irgendwen anzurufen, als jetzt privat einen Arzttermin zum Beispiel auszumachen. Klar, weil dann ist es sozusagen Bestandteil deines Jobs und deiner Funktion und hat damit irgendwie einen anderen Stellenwert. Und so bin ich halt dann so die Privatperson. Und weil man, ja, weil man so in so eine Rolle so ein bisschen schlüpfen kann, das macht es ein bisschen einfacher. Welche Rolle spielt's, dass man hier ein bisschen weg ist von den Menschen und vom Trubel?Das ist ganz angenehm, weil man dann wirklich so auch zur Ruhe kommen kann. Ich find, das macht es irgendwie leichter, dann auch, ja, so Achtsamkeitsmomente zu erleben. Ja. Wenn du spazieren gehst, hier zum Beispiel am Mittellandkanal, gehst du dann bevorzugt alleine oder gehst du dann eher mit deinem Freund? Beides, also immer unterschiedlich. Ähm, ich find's auch schön zu zweit, ist man irgendwie auch motivierter, dann auch wirklich loszugehen. Mhm. Ähm, aber ich mag's auch alleine gern, um irgendwie, ja, einfach zur Ruhe zu kommen, nachzudenken, Projekte mir zu überlegen. Also meine Schwester und ich haben angefangen, zusammen ein Buch zu schreiben. Wow. Und, ähm, ich find, so wenn man dann irgendwie so spazieren geht und es ist so 'ne ruhige Atmosphäre, kann man richtig gut nachdenken und auf Ideen kommen. Darf ich fragen, worum's geht in dem Buch? Ähm, es wird ein Thriller und der spielt in einem Buchladen. Oh, wow. Sehr, sehr gespannt. Ist grade Leipziger Buchmesse, also vielleicht in 'nem Jahr oder zwei bist du mit deiner Schwester dann da. Na ja, als Leseratte, wie du's ja bist, äh, kann ich es durchaus nachvollziehen. Du hattest vorhin schon gesagt, dass solche Wege wie zum Beispiel der vermeintlich leichte Weg zum Bäcker für dich Wege sind, die gar nicht so leicht sind. Warum? Weil es mit Ängsten verbunden ist. Also vor allem die Sorge, dass wenn ich dran bin, dass ich nicht, also dass ich plötzlich irgendwie nicht mehr sprechen kann, weil die Angst so stark ist. Auch vor allem, dass man mir die Angst anmerkt. Und in dem Moment ist es ja dann irgendwie eigentlich keine Situation, vor der man Angst haben sollte so. Stellst du dich diesen Ängsten dann bewusst oder, äh, gehst du in 'ne Vermeidung rein? Inzwischen mache ich die Sachen oft trotzdem. Wenn ich zum Beispiel verreise, dann gehe ich vorher schon zum Bäcker, weil ich auch weiß, dass es wichtig ist, sich immer wieder solchen Situationen zu stellen. Und eigentlich weiß ich ja auch, dass nichts Schlimmes passiert. Also ich hab's ja immer überlebt. Es ist eigentlich noch nie vorgekommen, dass ich dann plötzlich nicht mehr wusste, was ich sagen soll. Aber, ja, die Ängste sind halt trotzdem so in den Gedanken da. Du hattest vorhin bei dir zu Hause schon drüber gesprochen, dass du zurzeit auch wieder in einer Therapie bist, das auch nicht die erste Therapie ist. Was bedeutet dir das, in einer Therapie zu sein? Ist das 'n, 'n sicherer Anker? Ist das, äh, 'ne Vorbereitung auf ein Leben danach? Es gibt schon Sicherheit. Ich hab jetzt auch nur noch fünf Stunden, also es ist kurz vor Therapieende. Du sagst das lächelnd. Freust du dich drauf auf Therapieende oder ist es auch so ein bisschen wehmut- Nee, es ist eher die Unsicherheit. Ja, okay. Weil's schon irgendwie Sicherheit gibt. Also meine Therapeutin auch sagt, ich kenn die ganzen Strategien. Ich muss halt dann nur, ja, drauf kommen, sie anzuwenden und das irgendwie mehr in den Alltag zu integrieren. Therapie ist ja auch, wenn man sie hat, ich hab's jetzt auch nur alle paar Wochen nur noch. Es ist eine Stunde oder sogar nur fünfzig Minuten in paar Wochen. Mhm. Und der Rest, die restliche Zeit schaff ich's ja auch alleine so. Ja. Neben der Therapie, die du machst, ähm, nimmst du ja auch noch Medikamente. Ähm, was machen diese Medikamente mit dir? Ähm, wie lange musst du sie nehmen? Besteht die Möglichkeit, sie irgendwann vielleicht nicht mehr nehmen zu müssen? Bestimmt. Also meine Psychiaterin will die auch reduzieren. Haben wir ausprobiert, hat nicht so funktioniert, weil ich dann gemerkt hab, dass so die innere Anspannung wieder viel stärker war. Also ich hab so ständig gemerkt, wenn ich irgendwo einfach nur saß, eigentlich entspannt zu Hause, dass ich trotzdem so richtig angespannt auch die Hände hatte. Und ja, das ist dann wieder so 'n bisschen besser geworden, als ich wieder erhöht habe. Am Anfang hatte ich auch Bedenken, weil man schon auch so Vorurteile hat, so was Medikamente angeht. Aber inzwischen, dadurch, dass ich auch so viele andere Medikamente wegen meinem Rheuma nehmen muss, ist es halt einfach eine Tablette mehr und einfach ein Hilfsmittel. Und wenn's hilft, warum sollte man's nicht nehmen? Du bist jetzt seit zwei Jahren, glaube ich, hier in Braunschweig. Einem Jahr. Einem, seit einem Jahr. Von Bielefeld. Genau. Und fühlst du dich hier schon so richtig angekommen oder suchst du noch nach den Plätzen, die für dich zu Hause bedeuten? Zu Hause in der Wohnung und mit meinem Freund fühle ich mich auf jeden Fall angekommen. Aber, ja, mir fehlt noch irgendwie so 'n Freundeskreis. Mhm. Vor allem durch die Ehrenämter viele Freundschaften entstanden sind oder halt auch über Social Media. Die wohnen ja auch alle so in Deutschland verteilt und man kann sich nicht so oft sehen. Ja. Und das fehlt mir schon auch irgendwie, ja, Kontakte hier vor Ort zu haben. Aber ist ja irgendwie auch, also generell super schwierig, wie lernt man Leute kennen und erst recht, wenn man eine soziale Angststörung hat. Also, ähm, es hat sich hier so 'n Buchclub gegründet. Bisher konnt ich noch nicht teilnehmen, aber, ja, da hoffe ich, dass ich dann auch Menschen kennenlerne und dass vielleicht auch Kontakte entstehen, die nicht über irgendeine Erkrankung entstehen, sondern über so 'n gemeinsames Hobby, was ich bisher ja dann immer übers Tanzen auch hatte und dann jetzt vielleicht auch übers Lesen. Ja. Weißt du, was du ansonsten machst, äh, quasi, um deiner Angst zu begegnen oder ihr die Stirn zu bieten und, äh, in eine andere Beschäftigungsform reinzukommen? Ich glaube, da kannst du uns bei dir zu Hause noch 'n bisschen was dazu erzählen. Ja. Bin sehr, sehr gespannt. So, klassich, können wir 'ne Runde spazieren gehen. Mandy, wenn man sich bei dir umguckt, dann sieht man, äh, du liebst offensichtlich Handarbeiten, ne. Also Puzzle, würd ich mal schätzen, hast du gemacht. Ja. Und jetzt aufm Tisch zum Beispiel sieht man, womit du dir ansonsten die Zeit vertreibst. Irgendwie, wie nennt sich das? Malen nach Zahlen. Malen nach Zahlen, Stricken. Hier liegen auch also so handwerkliche Dinge. Warum ist dir das wichtig? Wenn zum Beispiel die Ängste stark sind, hilft es mir-Irgendwas Kreatives zu machen, grade auch, ja, dass die Hände irgendwie beschäftigt sind und weil man dann auch sieht, dass man was geschaffen hat. Es gibt mir immer 'n gutes Gefühl, dass dabei dann so was Schönes daraus entstehen kann. Also grade auch so, wenn man häkelt. Die hast du auch selber gemacht? Genau. Ah, krass. Wenn man so einzelne Teile irgendwie macht und wie man dann so sieht, wie aus der Wolle dann einfach am Ende so 'ne Figur entsteht. Merkst du eigentlich, wenn sich die Angst so anschleicht oder ist die urplötzlich da? Also hast du so Mechanismen schon entwickeln können? Meistens schleicht sie sich an und wird dann immer stärker. Ich glaub, inzwischen kann ich es dann auch auf jeden Fall schon besser rechtzeitig merken und weiß dann, okay, jetzt sollte ich irgendwie, ja, irgendwas tun, um auch wieder bisschen ruhiger zu werden. Ähm, weil, ja, wenn irgendwann so dieser Punkt überschritten ist, dann ist es, glaub ich, auch schwierig, das selbst so zu merken oder dann helfen irgendwie auch nicht mehr so wirklich die Skills, die man so hat. Wenn du jetzt in deine ganz persönliche Zukunft oder in die Zukunft mit deinem Freund guckst, wo siehst du dich oder wo siehst du euch in fünf, in zehn Jahren? Ich hoffe, dass ich möglichst glücklich bin und, ähm, ja, weiterhin mutig immer wieder und vielleicht noch 'n besseren Umgang mit den Ängsten finde beziehungsweise vor allem mehr Verständnis für mich selbst habe und mehr Nachsicht auch mit mir und, ja, Verständnis auch dafür, dass für mich viele Sachen einfach schwieriger sind als für andere. Mandy, hab vielen lieben Dank, dass du den Mut hattest, heute mit uns den Tag zu verbringen und uns wirklich tief in, in deinen Gedanken, in deine Gedankenwelt reinschauen zu lassen. Vielen lieben Dank an, äh, gemeinsam mit deinem Freund, aber natürlich auch für die vielen Projekte, die du angeschoben hast, äh, auf ehrenamtlicher Ebene. Toi toi toi und alles Gute und auch da viel, viel Kraft und weiterhin viel Mut. Danke schön. Wir haben eine sehr mutige Mandy heute kommen lassen dürfen. Vielen lieben Dank. 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