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shall now come to the planning of these experiments. Did Professor Eppinger's participation and the participation of Professor Heubner during the meeting decisive for the planning of 25 May 1944, which I assume you know about, did they give a guarantee for purely scientifically and medically proper treatment of the pro... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,430,000 | 2,430,500 |
is impossible. That sufficient volunteers could be found for a case was a matter of course, since a period of ten days of excellent food before and after the experiment was before them and since one could assure them with the best of confidence they would not or could not bring any danger. QWe will come to that, Profes... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,430,450 | 2,430,950 |
moment and dealt with these records, looked at them carefully and then in the presence of the defendant returned than to me. THE PRESIDENT:Counsel, my question was whether or not these charts purport to be a complete record from the beginning of the experiment to the end of the experiment. That was the only point conta... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,430,900 | 2,431,400 |
a preferable thirst treatment, and was it sufficient to judge the daily condition of the experimental subjects so that the right time to interrupt the experiments could be ascertained? Did you get my question? AYes, I've got it. I thought that the arrangements of these experiments was splendid from the scientific point... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,431,350 | 2,431,850 |
of the witness to form his opinion, but the records upon which he is basing his opinion are not in evidence before the Tribunal. They have not been subject to examination and cross-examination, and the witness' testimony is based upon the supposition that those records arc correct, and they are not even before the Trib... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,431,800 | 2,432,300 |
water loses further humidity. Thus, appetite disappears when you are thirsty. Therefore, it is definitely better to be hungry and thirsty simultaneously. QProfessor, is it right to observe the individual doses in order to prevent diarrhea, and, if individual quantities of less than 300 cc are admitted, can you prevent ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,432,250 | 2,432,750 |
twelfth day, and in this case with which we are concerned, all experiments were discontinued after the sixth day, so that danger to health during that period was out of the question. QCould the aim of these experiments have been achieved with a semi-penetrable membrane? AI can't understand how one should imagine this. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,432,700 | 2,433,200 |
is too short. Q.To what do you attribute the loss of weight during such experiments? A.That is almost entirely the loss of water. As I have already told you the excess salt supply in the body deprived the body of water. The body must have a supply of water if it is to supply salt. In other words, if the body is not rec... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,433,150 | 2,433,650 |
also want to deal with such preparations-- MR. McHANEY:I do not think by any stretch of the imagination can this witness testify from the records that Beigelboeck conducted an examination or rejected three experimental subjects. In my opinion it does not appear from the records, and he can only testify what Beigelboeck... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,433,600 | 2,434,100 |
had been at your disposal? A.I actually did it. Since I was interested in connection with sea-water experiments. I called for volunteers among my young doctors, and five of them volunterred, amongst them my youngest son, and they drank the synthetic sea water, having the exact amount content of sea water to the extent ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,434,050 | 2,434,550 |
of the experimental subjects? A.I saw the pictures, the naked bodies, and I saw they were strong, well fed and well-conditioned people. Q.Do you know, Professor, to what extent and in what direction fliers and sailors of other nations had been equipped in order to survive the ship-wrecks? A.There were a great variety o... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,434,500 | 2,435,000 |
of small quantities of sea-water up to 500 cc given over a lengthy period turned out to be better than pure thirst. BY DR. MARX: Q.What do you think of Wofatit generally? A.It is a wonderful think. Q.Is it correct to say that sea-water really assumes the character of drinking water through it? A.Yes, the only difficult... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,434,950 | 2,435,450 |
two later after the conclusion of the experiments as being connected with sea-water experiments? A.I consider that out of the question because seawater experiments lead to constipation and how one may suffer from diarrhea afterwards is a mystery to me. Q.Is it correct that during lack of water the body restrains the pe... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,435,400 | 2,435,900 |
the experiment after it was discovered by analysis that the person had secretly drunk water? A.The experiment should really have been begun again. Q.Now, to exclude any possibility of doubt, your answer applied to people who have carried out the experiment the way they should and have drunk only sea water? A.Yes, that ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,435,850 | 2,436,350 |
any other defense counsel? DR.FLEMMING (Defense counsel for the defendant Mrugowsky): Mr. President, I ask permission to ask the expert witness four questions regarding the circulation of the blood. THE PRESIDENT:Counsel then desires to make this witness his own witness for this purpose? DR. FLEMMING:Yes. THE PRESIDENT... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,436,300 | 2,436,800 |
with 1500 calories per day and with no compensation by way of injections or blood transfusions the withdrawal of 400 cc of blood would not weaken that patient? A.Of course it would weaken him, but he would recover from it. Q.How do you know he would recover? A.We have so many blood donors who do not receive more calori... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,436,750 | 2,437,250 |
any papers by him, or are you acquainted with his reputation in medical circles? A.Not very well, nor can I remember whether among the many things I have read on sea-water there was a paper by Ivy. Q.Can you testify whether Dr. Ivy is regarded as an expert on sea-water questions? A.I know nothing about that. Q.On what ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,437,200 | 2,437,700 |
time, but there are too many statistics and figures in here. I haven't looked through them all. This is a laboratory book. The two words on the book are "gastric juice, milimeter paper", and this is no doubt a record used in compiling the original report. It is a so-called laboratory book. Q.But whether or not the book... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,437,650 | 2,438,150 |
during the course of the experiments? A.I assumed so; moreover, the experiments were concluded by injections, in the thirst experiments with sodium nitrate solution in the sea-water experiments with sugar solution, by intravenous injection which immediately improves the condition. Q.Upon what is your opinion based that... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,438,100 | 2,438,600 |
say that this experimental subject appears to be in robust health? A.No, I should say that he is emaciated, as can be clearly see. Q.Well, you don't know whether that was the result of the experiment he underwent or whether he was chosen in that condition to begin with, do you Doctor? A.That I don't know. Q.Now, were t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,438,550 | 2,439,050 |
course. Q.Where did he study? A.Heidelberg. Q.Herr Professor, I will ask you to testify from your own memory, and if defense counsel wish to put your assistant on the stand, they are privileged to do so; but I am interested primarily in knowing what you know about your assistant. Now, you did not know he studied at Hei... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,439,000 | 2,439,500 |
know. Q.You don't know how long they were in your possession? A.No. Q.Can't you say approximately; one month, sixty days, ninety days? A.Perhaps one month. QWhen did you return them? AI brought them with me. QThen you returned them yesterday? AThat is right. QDid you get them from Dr. Steinbauer? AYes. QAnd you returne... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,439,450 | 2,439,950 |
persons were assembled in one room, received the same amount of salt each and pretty much continued their work. They drank 300 cc of sea water and one of them drank 1000, and they stuck pretty close to the provisions set down for the experiment. QYou say four of them drank 500 cc of sea water per day and the fifth one ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,439,900 | 2,440,400 |
those experiments; is that right? ANo, on both, of course, both on those carried out by Beiglboeck and on my own. QWell, your judgment was also influenced by what Beiglboeck told you about how much the experimental subjects suffered, is that right? ABeiglboeck drew up his own report on his own experiment on himself and... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,440,350 | 2,440,850 |
QDid they get any other water or fluid other than salt water? ANo, that was the whole purpose, that they should receive no other fluid and that is why they lost their appetite later. QThey got no milk and no fruit juices? ANo, no, that would have violated the whole experiment, and then they had not lost so much weight.... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,440,800 | 2,441,300 |
worked out in that way and I assumed that the experiments had been worked out as they had been planned, but, as I say, I laid no importance on the whole Question of the calories because the important point is the loss of body water and not loss of body weight. Q.Now, you didn't keep any of your experimental subjects wi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,441,250 | 2,441,750 |
still remains there is enough to keep the body metabolism supplied with the necessary chemicals. However, there is lack in the body of sodium nitrate which, however, can be overcome by giving sodium nitrate. They never complain about hunger, only thirst. Sometimes they complain of a feeling of weakness but fasting for ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,441,700 | 2,442,200 |
that. I wasn't too pleased by their behaviour. Q.Were these men informed of the seriousness of this undertaking? A.No. Q.And what reason did you advance to them for undergoing the experiments? A.Of course, I told them and this was known that such sea water experiments were an issue, but I was perfectly convinced that t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,442,150 | 2,442,650 |
no practical research on problems in connection with sea water ? A.- Not in this field but in the field of hunger and thirst I had. Q.- What do you mean by -- you had done research in the field of thirst ? What research had you done ? A.- I couldn't list all of the investigations I have carried out. That covers a perio... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,442,600 | 2,443,100 |
I can do that. Q.In your expert judgment do you state that the experiments con ducted, by you conformed in all essential details to the experiments in Dachau? A.I have already drawn your attention to the differences; namely, that my subjects received somewhat more to eat because they were not lying in bed but were carr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,443,050 | 2,443,550 |
no doubt that Professor Eppinger would have preferred to carry out the experiments in his clinical or in a hospital. But the war situation was such at that time that it was out of the question to making use of a large number of beds and male healthy personnel as experimental subjects for these experiments. In addition,... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,443,500 | 2,444,000 |
can state that there was no crime against humanity involved in these experiments. Q.And can you tell us one clinical reason why these experiments could not have been carried out in Berlin? A.I said, for purely external reasons. Simply lack of roomlack of space. Q.Did I understand you to testify earlier this morning tha... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,443,950 | 2,444,450 |
being told anything about it one way or the other and you ascertained as you did ascertain that a number of the subjects cheated, would you be quite so sure in your statement that they were volunteers? AI have already said that the fact that the person is a volunteer is not a certain guarantee that the experimental sub... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,444,400 | 2,444,900 |
it. Up to the present time you haven't told me anything about information you have received on it, and there is nothing in the conference report which discusses the content of Berkatit and its process of manufacture on its form ? AIt was said in this conference that Berkatit was simply a taste corrective, and for a doc... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,444,850 | 2,445,350 |
group. AI didn't count them, about six, but in one group I think there were more. QAnd were you able to ascertain from the records how much sea water the group consuming Berkatit was given, that is how much Berkatit processed sea water? AIn the Berkatit group, 500 cc of sea water were given. QAnd in what quantities wer... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,445,300 | 2,445,800 |
speak simply of discomfort, unpleasantness, bad mood attacks, a general fatigue, but severe pain is not caused by hunger or thirst or drinking sea water. Q.How much unpleasantness and discomfort would be caused; could you tell anything about that from these reports? A.Regarding the subjective reaction of the subjects, ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,445,750 | 2,446,250 |
no longer as good as 50 years ago. Q.You cannot testify about that then? A.No, I can only imagine what it might be. Q.I am not interested in your imagination unless it is based on some scientific observations you made, you are an expert on sea-water. A.But I am not an expert beyond the limit when things begin to be dan... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,446,200 | 2,446,700 |
you are probably familiar with tho document, which I want to put to you. It is the record of the conference hold on 20 May 1944. This document isNO-177, Prosecution Exhibit No.133. Doctor, before we turn to that document, I would like to get your reaction to a statement made by a man who was in Dachau and who had an op... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,446,650 | 2,447,150 |
all the water that they wanted to; that is your expert judgment on this experiment, is it Doctor? A.No, of course it was made more difficult than that for them, but people like that will of course find a way out somehow and the supervisors are generally speaking are at least 50% on the other side, so that one can never... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,447,100 | 2,447,600 |
no, I haven't finished. It is correct to assume that after consuming Berkatit injuries may be expected after six days, but permanent injuries to the health of the subject I would not speak about after twelve days have passed, and even then I have my doubts. If you carry out a sea water experiment or if you have been sh... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,447,550 | 2,448,050 |
the twelfth day danger to life exists indubitably. Q.But probably he would live to the twelfth day, is that right? A.I can't give you the probability factors of that. I said it is possible that he will survive. Q.Professor, let's continue at the top of page 2 where it says, "External symptoms are to be expected, such a... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,448,000 | 2,448,500 |
the sixth day. DR. MARX:Mr. President, as defense counsel for the defendants Becker-Freyseng and Professor Schroeder I wish to object to the way in which this document is being made the subject of cross examination by the prosecution. First of all this record is being contested by both the defendants and the defense, t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,448,450 | 2,448,950 |
met, but was only to be constituted during a further meeting and then draft plans for the experiments. Thus, in this most relevant point this record is false and therefore the assumption is justified that the record was not prepared on the 23 May but even later after the 26th of May. Christensen, you see, upon my quest... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,448,900 | 2,449,400 |
experimental person would have managed to get a hold of water some way or other, because even the most enthusiastic volunteer wouldn't continue that long. Q.Doctor, let's assume that he had no recourse, no access to other water, he was put in a cell, where there was no other water. He had to drink sea water. He had to ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,449,350 | 2,449,850 |
We call that to the Tribunal's attention for what ever weight they might wish to give it. We make no motions because that rule was violated in this instance. DR. TIPP:Mr. President, this justified objection by Prosecution can be clarified easily. Mr. McHaney doesn't know this fact that we asked the Tribunal in writing ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,449,800 | 2,450,300 |
not? A.Yes. Q.If, at any time, any one of the subjects felt that the conditions which he was undergoing in the experiment were becoming too heavy for him, he would have been released from further participation upon his request, would he not? A.No doubt he would have reported and he would have said "I want to step out. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,450,250 | 2,450,750 |
hospital bed and every doctor was being utilized in this time. That was the final period of the war. Q.You prefaced this last statement by saying "I know". Now, how do you know? By any other method than assuming that these gentlemen would have felt as you felt? A.No, I recollect that I have read that in one of the repo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,450,700 | 2,451,200 |
Schaefer had developed the idea of his excellent drug, the question of sea water was solved. Unfortunately, Mr. Berka arrived with his taste corrector and, because of very superficial experiments carried out by Colonel Sirany, the Technical Department spoke in favor of this drug which, from the medical point of view wa... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,451,150 | 2,451,650 |
of the details? What would have happened? Would Wofatit or Berkatit have been introduced in practice? A.I'm afraid the technicians would have been victorious. They would have been victorious over decency. Q.So you mean that, without these experiments, berkatit would, nevertheless, have been introduced in practice? A.Ye... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,451,600 | 2,452,100 |
not later than six days after taking Berkatit, and will lead to death not later than 12 days after; Professor, according to the underlying idea of the experiments which you have displayed I should like to ask you: to what did your statement refer? to the experiments or to the case of an actual ship-wrecked person. A.I ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,452,050 | 2,452,550 |
that during the actual experiments any type of torture was committed or that any incidents occurred which could be described as crimes against humanity? A.I haven't found anything like that at all, and what is more I consider it absolutely out of the question. The duration of the experiment is too short. During the six... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,452,500 | 2,453,000 |
they would like to revive them and therefore they want their names; could you have given your expert opinion, Professor, if you had no name, would it have altered it in any way? A.I wouldn't have looked for the names. They are quite immaterial to me. Q.So to you as a medical man the only decisive factor is what these c... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,452,950 | 2,453,450 |
the original pictures. DR. STEINBAUER:Your Honors, it is very regrettable that the expert had to be heard before my case came up, since he wanted to depart. All the agitation of the Prosecution then would have been superfluous. You can rest assured that I would not have felt so safe if I had not shown the list to Profe... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,453,400 | 2,453,900 |
even though they were not presented in evidence. When they are offered in evidence on behalf of the defendant if they appear in mutilated form or are not complete, they should then be objected to and if they are not submitted in evidence, then this testimony given this afternoon would not be considered by the Tribunal.... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,453,850 | 2,454,350 |
be influenced in any way in his decisions. QIt is you opinion then, Dr. Schaefer, that if you had expressed your misgivings to Dr. Mertz, Dr. Mertz would have said to you: "This is completely unnecessary. I know all about this. I myself was at the conference and you know that I approved all these matters." AQuite so. Q... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,454,300 | 2,454,800 |
told me he didn't know either. Apparently the whole matter was simply being dropped. QAt that stage that seems to have been a correct opinion because, as we know from the document books of the prosecution, no decision was reached in the matter at this time. I have already proved that Dr. Schaefer had nothing to do with... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,454,750 | 2,455,250 |
#3. It says here: "In May, 1944, I was ordered by the office of the Chief of the Medical Service of the Luftwaffe to attend a meeting called for the purpose of consisting further research on making sea water potable." Is this statement correct? AI should say that it is badly formulated. No new research was to be consid... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,455,200 | 2,455,700 |
of sea distress. QYes, and it is for that reason I ask you if you chose this form during your interrogation yourself? ANo, that formulation was presented to me in its final form. QIn that case you must explain some greater length how it happened, that this formulation was chosen; it couldn't have been chosen unless the... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,455,650 | 2,456,150 |
oppositions clear to the interrogator in your interrogations also? AYes, I did. QAnd it is true in this affidavit there is nevertheless nothing to that effect? AThat is so. QYou said something about notes you had set down? AAt the end of the interrogation I was - QNo, no, let me interrupt. You said you had drawn up a s... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,456,100 | 2,456,600 |
which was meant for Schroeder, and therefore Becker-Freyseng and Schroeder must have known that the Berka method was very dangerous. Becker-Freyseng and I were of the opinion that Sirany's experiments were not complete since they did not simulate actual conditions of a sea emergency." It is true that you told Becker-Fr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,456,550 | 2,457,050 |
symptoms." A.That means the muscles were more sensitive, that expression "nervous symptoms." Q.Did you use that phrase, "nervous symptoms" in your previous other interrogations? A.Yes, it is quite possible that I did. Q.What did you understand that to mean? A.I understood that to mean a general increase in reflexes and... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,457,000 | 2,457,500 |
just the one that should have been used. I was told if a man like Professor Schroeder was present it would be perfectly justifiable to use the phrase, "in the highest medical circles." Q.And that satisfied you? A.Yes. Q. in the same way you were satisfied to use the word "decided" entirely aside from the question wheth... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,457,450 | 2,457,950 |
told that you had the right to have counsel? AOnly after the indictment was the right of counsel granted. QI gather now from your testimony regarding this affidavit and all of your previous testimony that you asserted you were not responsible for the planning or carrying out of the experiments for the following reasons... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,457,900 | 2,458,400 |
A.My reasons now are the same as they were, namely, I object to them on the grounds that the experiments were superfluous; secondly, because I myself would not have carried out any experiments on concentration camp inmates? Q.Why not? A.Because the voluntary consent of a concentration camp inmate is a very relative thi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,458,350 | 2,458,850 |
short recess was taken.) THE MARSHAL:Military Tribunal I is again in session. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. HARDY: QDr. Schroeder, you were in attendance at the freezing conference in Nurnberg in October 1942? AYes. On the second day of this meeting I held a lecture. QWho ordered you to that conference? AGeneralarzt Martius... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,458,800 | 2,459,300 |
whether it had been reproduced correctly and I was not interested in the rest. QThen the first time you heard about the experimental program with human beings was here in this courtroom? ANo, the meeting on the 19th and 20th concerning the sea water experiments. QAnd after having been to the Nurnberg conference in Octo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,459,250 | 2,459,750 |
my experiments. I merely carried out tests on hunger and thirst. It never occurred to me to perform human experiments with sea-water from which the salt had been removed, according to the Berka method. I frequently drank this water myself and the chemical analysis was absolutely sufficient for such water. Q.Doctor, wou... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,459,700 | 2,460,200 |
of sea-water to see what the effects would be; can you explain to us in detail, Doctor, just what you were trying to accomplish by your experiments? A.I held the point of view that it was better to go without food and water than to drink sea-water. Consequently, I wanted to test with my experimental subjects how long o... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,460,150 | 2,460,650 |
the impairment of health take place? A.In the dose of 400 to 500 cc? Q.Yes, Doctor. A.I would think from the sixth day on perhaps. Q.Well would that occur if they continued to drink the seawater; normally when would death occur; after how many days? A.That is extremely difficult to say. Q.Can you tell us the reason why... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,460,600 | 2,461,100 |
symptoms of dehydration. dryness in the mouth and mucous membranes, dryness of the skin, reflex increases, the muscles become harder. Q.May a person develop hallucinations as a result of drinking sea water? A.Yes, I should think so, because of the need for water there would be hallucinations. Q.Well now would an experi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,461,050 | 2,461,550 |
ever a method invented or developed in the history of Germany to render sea water potable prior to the time you developed wofatit? A.At least I knew of no method. Q.Then you were the first one in Germany to develop a method which rendered sea water potable, an effective method? A.Yes, one could say so. Q.Then you are p... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,461,500 | 2,462,000 |
the conclusion after examining Dr. von Sirany's work with the Berka method, that this method was not of any value and would not in fact render sea water potable? A.Yes, that's right. Q.Well, were you of the opinion that Dr. von Sirany's experiments had not gone far enough? A.No, that was not my opinion. I was of the op... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,461,950 | 2,462,450 |
contained in sea water I tested. Q.Well, how long would it have taken to prove that Berka water was chemically nothing but sea water? Would it take ten years, two days? A.Half an hour. Q.Half an hour? Then the point could have been proven chemically within half an hour that Berka water was nothing more than sea water c... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,462,400 | 2,462,900 |
Sirany's experiments were turned over to me. QWell, could the point have been proven chemically by a simple device of psychological chemistry or physiological chemistry such as, for instance, that Berka water would still extract water from a cell like any other hypertonic salt solution? AYes, that could have been deter... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,462,850 | 2,463,350 |
experiments had shown that the patients lose water. I also said that one can still find salt - that is, sodium chloride - in the sea water, and I said that even if there were a compound formed between Berkatit and the salt in the sea water, this compound would probably not be absorbed and if it were absorbed the organi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,463,300 | 2,463,800 |
Dr. Schroeder was not in Berlin at the time. QDid you consider it your duty to attempt to stop the experiments at Dachau? You were an expert on sea water. That is, the potability thereof. AI considered it my duty to express my opinion that the experiments were unnecessary and I did so. QDid you ask Schroeder for his su... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,463,750 | 2,464,250 |
Your Honor. THE PRESIDENT:I will ask counsel for defendant Beiglboeck how long he anticipates. DR. STEINBAUER:I agree that this witness is heard after the completion of the Schaefer case. THE PRESIDENT: I would ask counsel for Defendant Beiglboeck that. MR. HARDY: Counsel for Dr. Hoven is Dr. Gawlik. Now counsel for Dr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,464,200 | 2,464,700 |
that. Q.Why did you object, more specifically? A.Because I didn't see the reason for that. Q.You thought that they were absolutely unnecessary? A.That is right. Q.Did you consider that these experiments would have been criminal? A.No, one could not have been of that opinion. Q.Then the entire basis for your objection w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,464,650 | 2,465,150 |
no talk at all of any criminal experiments. And an unnecessary experiment is not a criminal one. Q.Well, now, on the 20th of May, Doctor, we hear for the first time that an actual experimental plan was discussed. On page 15, Document No. 177, which is Prosecution Exhibit 133, Document Book 5, we note at the top of the ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,465,100 | 2,465,600 |
a group which for the sake of comparison received normal water and food like people in sea distress. Moreover, Becker-Freyseng has started here in detail that when drawing up the plan for these experiments they considered what procedure should be introduced and they had to find out whether people should be left thirsty... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,465,550 | 2,466,050 |
said at these meetings by the different members and present if he remembers what was said and if he has the information, but he should not be asked for their thoughts, ideas or purposes insofar as they were not expressed in words. BY MR. HARDY : Q.- These experiments, Dr. Schaefer, as I understand them - and I might ad... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,466,000 | 2,466,500 |
they at that time discuss the subjects to be used ? A.- The discussion of the experimental subjects was taken up later. It was generally ascertained that there were no experimental subjects available and so far as I can recall, Dr. Schickler spoke to Becker-Freyseng, and they were speaking at this time of another possi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,466,450 | 2,466,950 |
Reichel, and he states therein in the last paragraph as follows: "I was separated from Dr. Schaeffer by the war. Not until the war was over did I meet him again in Bad Pyrmont, where, as he had done before the war, he expressed to me his horror at the methods of certain research officials." Now, Dr. Schaeffer, what met... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,466,900 | 2,467,400 |
the plans for the experiments. Moreover, I have already made clear that the repugnance that is expressed in this affidavit which you just quoted refers to the quackery on the part of Berka and Sirany, who, not only in this field, but also in other fields, were sold on throwing their weight around. To me personally expe... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,467,350 | 2,467,850 |
were conducted? A.I have seen a report but I cannot say today for sure whether this report reached me before or after. Q.You mean before or after the actual meeting in the zoological gardens? A.Yes, that is right. Q.Did Beiglboeck report at that meeting about the experiments he performed on himself? A.Do you mean wheth... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,467,800 | 2,468,300 |
to correct it, I want to elucidate it. Swelling of the liver ... Q You want to add to it? A I would have to delete delirium. That was my mistake. When I said that I heard the nervous symptoms were increased -- reflexes and sensitiveness of the muscles. And the mental disturbances were apathy and somnolence. Q Well, do ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,468,250 | 2,468,750 |
be submitted later. The Prosecution can, therefore, not use this document and I object to this question. MR. HARDY:The document has been submitted provisionally, your Honor. The Prosecution was to obtain a jurate to the document. That has been obtained. The document is in due form and will be offered formally when the ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,468,700 | 2,469,200 |
QWell, do you recall in the affidavit by Pillwein where Pillwein stated that the patients were put back into the regular infirmary in a very weakened and damaged condition where they died after a short time? DR. PELCKMANN:May I make an objection, Mr. President. Mr. Hardy is here asking the witness whether he remembers ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,469,150 | 2,469,650 |
letter, we report that we have no objections whatsoever to the experiments requested by the Chief of the Medical Service of the Luftwaffe to be conducted at the experimental station Rascher in the concentration camp Dachau. If possible, Jews or prisoners held in quarantine are to be used." Now, Doctor, I am fully aware... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,469,600 | 2,470,100 |
this letter, would you have more strenuously objected to the experiments at Dachau ? DR. PELCKMANN :I should like to object again. The prosecutor himself has said that he knows that the witness did not get the letter. Therefore, it is unnecessary to ask whether he did get the letter. THE PRESIDENT :Objection sustained.... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,470,050 | 2,470,550 |
resistance because you saw an opportunity in these experiments to make it quite clear, by way of experiment, how good your method was and how poor the Berka method was. He said that, didn't he ? A.- Yes, he did. Q.- First, I should like to ask you, was your resistance passive ? A.- No, it was not passive. There were vi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,470,500 | 2,471,000 |
to say that if I had had the slightest interest in this I would have taken an active interest in the experiments, and how they were arranged. Professor Eppinger had been involved by Berkatit. He was in charge of experiments for Sirany. The experiments showed what the method of the execution of the experiments, what sig... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,470,950 | 2,471,450 |
assumed for sure that these three gentlemen would realize that Berkatit was completely useless. QAnd then in the meeting at least so far as you were present, until you were separated from the others because of the air raid, you were seriously disappointed in this opinion? AYes, I was quite bitter and I lost my faith in... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,471,400 | 2,471,900 |
Dr. BeckerFreyseng that Berkatit was dangerous; now did you warn them about the danger of Berkatit in practice of sea distress or the danger in experiments? AThis warning referred of course to cases of distress at sea. QThen I should like to ask you something else, the Prosecutor asked you whether in the meeting when i... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,471,850 | 2,472,350 |
HARDY: Q I have two further questions, Your Honor, if there are no further questions by defense counsel. THE PRESIDENT: Does defense counsel desire to propound any further questions to the witness? DR. PELCKMANN: At the end, I have a remark to make. I have no further questions to the witness. RE-CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,472,300 | 2,472,800 |
morning. (The Tribunal adjourned until 9:30 5 June 1947). Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America, against Karl Brandt, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 5 June 1947, 0930, Justice Beals presiding. THE MARSHAL:Persons in the courtroom will pl... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,472,750 | 2,473,250 |
small transport business. In 1940 my truck was requisitioned by the German Wehrmacht and I was instructed to work as a workman in an armaments factory. In August of 1940 I refused to do this work and was arrested by the Gestapo of Leipzig. The judicial proceedings against me for refusing to work were squashed, and I wa... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,473,200 | 2,473,700 |
the witness when stepping in front of the defendant's dock has correctly identified the defendant Hoven. BY DR. GAWLIK: Q.Then you know very well what the conditions were in the camp hospital in the time during which Dr. Hoven was the camp doctor? A.Yes, I do. Q.Are Blacks 44 and 49 or Block 46 known to you? A.Yes. Q.H... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,473,650 | 2,474,150 |
camp doctor. Q.What do you know about the way in which this Wehrmacht officer was removed from the camp? A.From a telephone conversation that took place between Block 46 and the prisoner's hospital, I know that Dr. Hoven used a trick and told this officer that if he did not go back to Weimar with the truck that was the... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,474,100 | 2,474,600 |
from being sent to this block; or, if political prisoners were there who were of great importance to the camp, then in that case the capo of the dispensary appeared before Dr. Hoven and asked that these important persons should not be sent to Block 46 but that they should be replaced by valueless criminal elements. QDi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,474,550 | 2,475,050 |
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