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Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing. (The witness repeated the oath.) You may seated. THE PRESIDENT:Counsel may proceed. BY DR. STEINBAUER: QWitness, what is your exact name, where were you born, what is your nationality and what is your present address? AMy name is Dr. Rolf J... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,385,000 | 2,385,500 |
have any personal connections with higher offices, particularly to the Medical Inspectorate? ANo, he did not. I don't believe he wanted any. QWhat can you tell us about his medical activities and his attitude as a physician? AHis medical activities consisted in taking care of the internal department and caring for the ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,385,450 | 2,385,950 |
camp and besides, he wanted to come back to the internal Department of the Hospital and asked me to try to arrange it. Q.Did you make efforts to have him brought back? A.Yes, I did, I said that I had entrusted him with the building up of the internal department and it was hard for me to get along without him. Q.Why was... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,385,900 | 2,386,400 |
his assignment, he told me that no carried out the sea-water experiments as ordered. He also said that before the beginning of the experiment he also performed an experiment on himself. He said that the experimental subjects were gipsies, who had volunteered and that they were granted extra food rations, less work, etc... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,386,350 | 2,386,850 |
an important problem. I may say that I was a parachutist on Crete and know the special dangers of the sea. I was shut in for two days near the coast in Crete and suffered greatly from thirst. After these two days we reached the sea; we were sitting practically in the water and were suffering greatly from thirst, but we... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,386,800 | 2,387,300 |
A.Whether that was loyal of Professor Beiglboeck; was that your question? Q.Well, wasn't it rather unusual? A.No, I don't believe so, I don't think there was any reason for secrecy in this matter. Q.Well, for your information, Doctor, the matter was classified "Top Secret". Don't you feel Dr. Beiglboeck was breaching h... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,387,250 | 2,387,750 |
to ask the interpreter to read it. It is spelled Wasser and Luftgau. A.No, I never heard of that. Q.If your name appears in a document concerning experiments conducted on 150 human beings to determine the value of certain decontamination agents in the decontamination of water, would you be inclined to think that that w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,387,700 | 2,388,200 |
certainly. Q.Now, witness, please turn once again to DocumentNO-306. This is Exhibit No. 296 and is in Prosecution Document Book No. 12, on page 77. Unfortunately I do not have the English page - it is page 74 in the English document book. We have already discussed this document three times. Mr. Hardy brought it up twi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,388,150 | 2,388,650 |
said about it. I either reported to the department chief about it, since it was an aviation medicine assignment. I might have suggested that Professor Strughold or someone else be consulted, and if the department chief approved the application I took the documents over to the budget Referent, who was responsible for fi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,388,600 | 2,389,100 |
and the Referat numbers. I think they are clear enough. Moreover, an affidavit is going to be put in regarding this matter later. We do not have to discuss your position in the Referat any longer. Now one question regarding the low-pressure chamber. You know, Witness, that the mobile low-pressure chamber used by the DV... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,389,050 | 2,389,550 |
well as altitude, that Professor Hippke carried out a great deal of the work in this field on his own initiative and did so without informing the competent Referent of this. Now, the question arises, could Hippke do this -- did he have any knowledge in the field of aviation medicine so that he could reach autonomous de... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,389,500 | 2,390,000 |
where Anthony writes: "The research records and an extensive report will be presented to the Reichsfuehrer-SS by Stabsarzt Dr. Rascher." Mr. Hardy contended that the extensive report mentioned here is the report that Professor Holzloehner gave in Nurnberg. May I ask you whether this opinion of Mr. Hardy is correct, or ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,389,950 | 2,390,450 |
asked you why these experiments by Holzloehner at Dachau were necessary in view of that. Can you say something to that? AThese experiments -- specifically Holzloehner's experiments -on quick rewarming, where, in Holzloehner's own words, no experimental subject suffered any hard or was endangered, were necessary because... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,390,400 | 2,390,900 |
extent you feel yourself responsible for these experiments on the basis of your official position? AI think my responsibility for these experiments lies in the fact of my giving my department chief the necessary documentation and data in order for him to arrive at decisions regarding the necessity of these experiments ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,390,850 | 2,391,350 |
dose, and the decisive factor is that the experiment can, at any moment, be interrupted for medical reasons. QThen, if I understood you correctly, you see the danger in practice in the fact that a man in a serious case of sea distress -shipwreck -- will drink too much sea water mixed with Berkatit? That will be dangero... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,391,300 | 2,391,800 |
middle of April and then, with the rest of this small staff of mine, went to the Tyrol where at the end of May we were taken prisoners. Q.- Now, what happened to these Harzburg files and the registry office of the Medical Inspector? A.- In the first half of April the office was taken by American troops? In this eay the... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,391,750 | 2,392,250 |
Q.- And what about the Lutz experiments? Were they before the Dachau experiments, and when I say Dachau experiments I an referring to the experiments Dr. Romberg carried out on Dr. Ruff's authority. Now the Lutz experi ments were white mice instead of experimental persons. Were they before or after the Dachau experimen... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,392,200 | 2,392,700 |
as are found in human beings. Q.- Then I think you are trying to say, Dr. Becker, that Dr. Lutz's experiments did not solve the problem of rescue from great altitudes -- at least did not solve it for human beings. Is that so? A.Yes. that opinion is correct. Q.Now, how about the experiments carried on by the other two m... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,392,650 | 2,393,150 |
has survived it, can be brought down from this great altitude to the ground without injury? As you have said, Doctors Clamann and Benzinger did not solve this problem, and this problem was the main concern of Drs. Ruff and Romberg, this was the problem they were to solve. Is that correct, so far as I as a layman can un... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,393,100 | 2,393,600 |
flier's having to do anything to manipulate it, is capable of bringing the plane down to a lower altitude. The medical question involved was: At the height of 19 kilometers, in this specific case, how long does a flier remain capable of action? That is an entirely different problem from the problem that Doctors Ruff an... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,393,550 | 2,394,050 |
attained. I don't want to tell you the name for the moment. Perhaps you can remember the name yourself. I should prefer that. AI don't know that 26 kilometers was actually reached, but from my activities as a Referent I know that the German Research Institute for Gliding in Ainring near Salzburg, under the direction of... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,394,000 | 2,394,500 |
is that so? ASurely not, because Ruff's institute was a medical research institute; the equipping of the chamber was surely done by some workshop of the DVL. I don't know the details. QNow this mobile low-pressure chamber that came to Dachau in January or February, 1942, when it reached the DVL, was this chamber immedi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,394,450 | 2,394,950 |
as Referent of the Medical Inspectorate, had the right to dispose of the chamber? Who determined whether it stayed there or was removed, and Dr, Becker, before you answer this question, lot me remind you of a letter that has frequently been read here, a letter from Prof. Hippke to Obergruppenfuehrer Wolff of the SS, I ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,394,900 | 2,395,400 |
as an expert draw from this letter regarding who was entitled to dispose of the chamber while it was in Dachau? Was it the SS, or the Camp Commander of Dachau, or who was it? A.It seems to me to be a rather difficult legal problem. Milch says, on the, one hand, that the chamber cannot remain in Dachau. Thus, Field Mars... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,395,350 | 2,395,850 |
it was a moving point of light on a small screen. That is what Romberg said. Now, perhaps you will remember that. Now, is this the sort of machine that y u just mentioned? A.No, I must correct myself. In this case of the small screen there is a screen about 10x3cm, and this is the screen you find in the Kleine Siemens ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,395,800 | 2,396,300 |
mean Professor Haagen. Q.Yes, that is right. A.Then, when I was speaking of the Referat for Hygiene in cross examination, I was speaking only of a very few hygiene research assignments, and not all research assignments that were n t aviation medical assignments; and finally, if I really said that research assignments t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,396,250 | 2,396,750 |
examination of the witness? MR. HARDY:Dr. Becker-Freyseng, do you have any knowledge as to whether or not in the year of 1943 Dr. Rascher received another pressure chamber at Dachau for further experimentation as solicited in the Siever's diary for the year 1943? THE WITNESS:No, I have no knowledge of that, but conside... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,396,700 | 2,397,200 |
the words. "Before we go into a discussion on the falling experiments, it seems essential for us to cite the work of Lutz and Wendt on 'Animal Experiments on Parachute Jumping from High Pressure Cabins'. Unfortunately, this work was not available to us during the experiments so that we could not build upon the valuable... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,397,150 | 2,397,650 |
authors of this report only learned of Lutz and Wendt's work after they had completed their own experiments. MR. HARDY:Thank you? I have no further questions. THE PRESIDENT:If there are no further questions to be propounded to the witness, counsel may proceed. BY DR. TIPP: QMr. President? only two more questions arisin... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,397,600 | 2,398,100 |
this up. It is 6 March 1943, the reference is made to a conference between Rascher and Sievers during which a number of points are listed. Under No. 8 of this point of the conference there is mention of the continuation of the low pressure experiments. You cannot draw any other conclusion from this entry except that it... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,398,050 | 2,398,550 |
defendant Becker-Freyseng has exhibit no. 32. It is contained in Document Book III and is Becker-Freyseng Document 48. May I now continue with submitting the documents from Book III and it is no. 49. I should like to offer it as exhibit 33. MR. HARDY:May it please the Tribunal, I have three or four document books and D... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,398,500 | 2,399,000 |
the house of this witness at the time his son was at the university. I should like to quote paragraph d from the first page: "I am able therefore to testify that Dr. Hermann Becker-Freyseng had a true Christian conviction and devoted himself to an irreproachably pure way of life. As a physician he was filled with the h... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,398,950 | 2,399,450 |
Document 52 of Becker-Freyseng and I shall call it Exhibit 36. It is an affidavit of the well known physiologist Professor Dr. H. Rein at Goettingen dated 21 January 1947. After the usual introduction the witness states under paragraph 1 - and I should like to quote: "I never thought Dr. Becker-Freyseng capable of comm... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,399,400 | 2,399,900 |
frequent official contact, when I was in charge of aviation matters and pathology and he repeatedly visited me in Freiburg, partly for the reason that he worked with my assistants Liebegott and later Pichotka on animal experiments regarding oxygen poisoning. Several times he had lunch or dinner in my house. I therefore... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,399,850 | 2,400,350 |
I wish to offer is Becker-Freyseng No. 55, but the following document I don't want to offer. It doesn't actually offer anything new and would merely mean unnecessary burden both to the Tribunal and to the record. It lists points which other affidavits have already proved more clearly and efficiently. So, therefore, I w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,400,300 | 2,400,800 |
which resulted from the consistent application of National Socialist ideology. As I knew his attitude from several conversations, I turned to him in 1944 in connection with the case of a half-Jewish friend of mine." Then the witness goes on to describe, and I quote: "At that time this friend, Dr. Franz Froehlich, now l... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,400,750 | 2,401,250 |
that his ideas were not influenced by the National Socialist conceptions of medicine." Then follows the customary signature and certificate. The next document I should like to offer is Becker-Freyseng No. 59 which is on page 230 of the document book and which I will give the Exhibit No. 42. It is an affidavit from Dr. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,401,200 | 2,401,700 |
of many colleagues. I myself have never been a member of the NSDAP and have never belonged to any branch of it." Then follows the signature and certificate. The next document of this bock I cannot yet offer, Mr. President. It deals with human experiments and must, therefore, be submitted at a later stage. Now, Mr. Pres... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,401,650 | 2,402,150 |
PRESIDENT:What number Jo you offer as BeckerBreyseng Document 63? Is that the document you are offering now? DR. TIPP:Just one second, please, Hr. President. I am told just now that this is going to be Document No. 43. Now, Document No. 63 I should like to offer as Becker-Freysong Exhibit No. 43 and your question - THE... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,402,100 | 2,402,600 |
by Dr. von Syrany with Berkatit, the opinion given by Professor Eppinger of Vienna, as well as by virtue of the favorable raw material and manufacturing situation with regard to Berkatit, the Technical Office of the Reich Air Ministry was determined to introduce Berkatit. In this respect my department has already settl... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,402,550 | 2,403,050 |
and 20 of Hay 1944, but was deliberately deferred to the meeting on the 25 which was to take place in the presence of Professor Eppinger." I should like to continue quoting from this document: "On the 19 and 20 of Hay 1944 only the necessity of further experiments was discussed and generally referred to. Dr. Becker-Fre... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,403,000 | 2,403,500 |
not present, whereby this report was superseded, the matter was considered closed. "8.) The meetings of 19 & 20 May 1944 took place at the instigation of the Technical Office and under my supervision. "9.) The Technical Office alone was responsible for passing preparations for airplane equipment fit for use, to which a... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,403,450 | 2,403,950 |
to ask in connection with Document No. 63, the affidavit of Alfred Christensen, to ascertain from Defense Counsel the address and location of Alfred Christensen. THE PRESIDENT:Can the Defense Counsel furnish that information to the Prosecution? DR. TIPP:Yes, I would love to, Mr. President. The affidavit itself shows it... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,403,900 | 2,404,400 |
No. 5 which has been distributed to the Tribunal today. The first document which I should like to offer from this document book is Becker-Freyseng Document No. 65, which is on page 344. I give it Exhibit No. 44. It is a supplement to the affidavit of Christensen which I have just mentioned, an affidavit by the same Alf... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,404,350 | 2,404,850 |
that Dr. Becker-Freyseng repeatedly stressed the fact that persons would have to submit to tests only voluntarily and that only persons in good physical standing would be considered is another reason why I considered these experiments completely harmless. As far as I remember today, Dr. Becker-Freyseng mentioned that p... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,404,800 | 2,405,300 |
which have been discussed here several times. The Tribunal knows that Dr. BeckerFreyseng was seriously ill after these experiments. Therefore, I shall not quote this part of the affidavit. However, I shall quote from page 2 of the document, the first paragraph that begins on the second page: "In the course of the years... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,405,250 | 2,405,750 |
rendered such a thing absolutely impossible." DR. TIPP:In IV the witness deals with the special rations for aviators. I shall merely call this paragraph to the attention of the Tribunal. V of this affidavit deals with Prosecution Document NO 1419, Exhibit No. 447, a letter from the General Commissioner of the Fuehrer f... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,405,700 | 2,406,200 |
office of the Referat for Aviation Medicine. I might ask defense counsel whether or not he intends to substantiate these documents -- that is, certify the authenticity thereof. DR. TIPP:Certainly, in his affidavit the witness refers to these two documents and says that they are included in his affidavit. I believe that... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,406,150 | 2,406,650 |
makes it a part of his affadavit. THE PRESIDENT:I think at least there should be some statement from the witness that he made contemporaneous copies from the original document when it was received, that he was not quoting it from memory. There is nothing here that accounts for the absence of the original document. Ther... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,406,600 | 2,407,100 |
skip the next sentence and shall quote from the next paragraph: "In view of the fact that a research assignment also carries financial support, it was only natural that this authority requested to he kept informed on the progress of the work as well to he given an account of the money used. These reports, however, were... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,407,050 | 2,407,550 |
up their original documents. If the Tribunal believes that original research assignment should be admitted I will try to get it from Romberg and to submit it. THE PRESIDENT:Well, if he has the original document he could have a certified copy made and the original document be returned to him. MR. HARDY:This is a matter ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,407,500 | 2,408,000 |
replaced. Therefore, the placement of the order, its acceptance and performance was in the interest of thee Institute, and only in the second instance in the interests of the Medical Inspector ate, which gave the order. It was expressly stated that this research order concerned a so-called fundamental research." I shal... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,407,950 | 2,408,450 |
the Medical Inspectorate. He says in paragraph one, 2 sentences after the beginning: "This research order consisted of a purely financial support of the further work on a subject which I had already begun in 1936." Then tho witness describes how this assignment was issued. I can skip this part. The witness continues: "... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,408,400 | 2,408,900 |
point because Professor Haagen is going to appear as a witness, and will be able to testify as to how long he was on leave from the Luftwaffe. If it should prove necessary in the course of the case I may offer these documents later. Mr. President, I have now completed the presentation of evidence for the defendant Beck... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,408,850 | 2,409,350 |
- English Document I, German Document 20, is to have Exhibit No. 1. This is an affidavit by Professor Dr. Hubertus Strughold. I shall read all of it. "Dr. Konrad Schaefer was assigned as a junior grade or assistant physician to the Research Institute for Aviation Medicine, Berline. Up to the end of 1943 -- at which tim... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,409,300 | 2,409,800 |
chance school fellows and study companions, but were also close friends. I therefore have exact knowledge of Dr. Schaefer's work outlook and conception of life. Until 1940 when our paths were divided by professional duties, his political attitude was clear and distinct. It was in opposition to National Socialism. I kno... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,409,750 | 2,410,250 |
hematologist -- a disease of the blood investigated by him on the Aland Islands was named after him "Thrombasthenia Juergens-Willebrandt' --mostly dealt with problems of hematology, we worked at first on such problems. "While working together and also through our friendly relations, which lasted for several years until... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,410,200 | 2,410,700 |
Schaefer and was unwilling to lose his service as a collaborator and who told him that he could not keep him if he did not join some organization, Dr. Schaefer remained true to his political convictions. Dr. Schaefer was removed from the university as voluntary assistant because he did not belong to any of the party or... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,410,650 | 2,411,150 |
his opinion about this. The chances of success of this attempt were discussed again." I continue after two paragraphs: "Dr. Schaefer was completely against all militarism in the medical field. While he was called up he hardly ever wore uniform, at least I hardly ever saw him in it. He was strongly against the use of sp... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,411,100 | 2,411,600 |
Berlin I met Dr. Schaefer here in Hamburg where he expressed his happiness about the end and told me that now at last he could work as a free man and live for his research work. Dr. Schaefer is a great idealist who respects human like above everything and whose views are known to me as definitely antinazi." English Doc... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,411,550 | 2,412,050 |
years during which I was permitted to work together with Dr. SCHAEFER, the specialized knowledge mentioned above was proved to the full. Our scientific work led to a very close friendship, so that I was able to gain a deep insight into his human and political views. "I personally have been a Socialist for many years. I... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,412,000 | 2,412,500 |
proceeding with this, the Court will be in recess for a few minutes. (A recess was taken.) THE MARSHAL:The Tribunal is again in session. THE PRESIDENT:Counsel may proceed. DR.MARX: (Defense Counsel for the defendant Becker-Freyseng): Mr. President, I ask permission to make an explanation. The man called as an expert fo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,412,450 | 2,412,950 |
to be called tomorrow will testify from original German documents or, at least, alleged original documents, concerning the sea water experiments. That is to say the defendant Beiglboeck has, in his possession, original charts and records concerning the experiments which he carried out in Dachau. If the witness is to te... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,412,900 | 2,413,400 |
future Study. I do not think it is true that we have seen all the originals of these documents. I am advised that Dr. Steinbauer even has the names of the people who were subjected to these experiments, yet I find no reflection of those documents in the document books so far submitted for the defendant Beiglboeck and, ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,413,350 | 2,413,850 |
making these names available. DR. STEINBAUER.Very well. Counsel for defendant Schaefer may proceed. DR. PELCKMANN:Your Honor. I had read Exhibit 9 in part. In this exhibit Mr. Lehmann certified that the publications of Jewish authors were strictly forbidden b the National Socialist Party, and that it was also forbidden... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,413,800 | 2,414,300 |
I shall read: "Since the Spring of 1943 I had been working on my Doctor thesis under Doctor Conrad SCHAIFER. I have known Dr. SCHAEFER since 1936 and through his conversations with me and with others I learned to know him as a determined enemy of National Socialism. Of that period, I know too, that his refusal to join ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,414,250 | 2,414,750 |
last two paragraphs; page 37 and page 38 of the English Document Book, because the last of the affidavit I shall read in a different context. "As I lived for almost two years with the Schaefer family, I was well acquainted with the political opinion of Dr. Schaefer. Right at the outset he told me that he was obliged to... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,414,700 | 2,415,200 |
In interrogating Schaefer, I shall refute this on the basis of documents in which I in delineating his official position shall prove that he was in the Institute only on rare occasions, that he took no part in the Nurnberg conference, etc. I can dispense with discussing the defendant Schaefer's career, that is set fort... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,415,150 | 2,415,650 |
the minutes of the conference of 23 May 1944 and Dr. Schaefer is mentioned as a participant in this confe rence and under No. 14, Dr. Schaefer is designated in the English translation as a non-commissioned officer, which of course is not an officer. How did you come to take up your activities in the aerial medical rese... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,415,600 | 2,416,100 |
remember personally, was not a member of the personnel of the Medical Experimental and Training Department of the Luftwaffe and never worked in Jueterbog either. It is possible that he was assigned to the department's payroll, this I cannot remember. The Medical Inspectorate sometimes put people on the budget appropria... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,416,050 | 2,416,550 |
AAbout once a month. QWhy were you there? ATo report on what I had done or to settle some formalities or to fetch apparatus. DR. PELCKMANN:In this connection I might return to Exhibit No. 14. This is Mrs. Ursula Egloff's affidavit, and I may read the following from the first paragraph: "From 1936 to 1945 I was a medica... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,416,500 | 2,417,000 |
QWhere was he? AHe was at the branch office in Silesia which had been transferred to there as protection against air raids. QIn other words, he was hard to get to? AYes. QWhat was your official relation to Becker-Freyseng, to Prof. Schroeder or to his predecessor Hippke? AThe Research Institute was subordinate to the M... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,416,950 | 2,417,450 |
1942, in other words, at the date of the Nurnberg conference? AI knew ProfessorAnthony and Dr. Becker-Freyseng. QYou say you know Professor Anthony. Will you, please, explain that? AI saw him once when he gave me the order to speak on the thirst problem in cases of sea distress at the Nurnberg conference. That was an o... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,417,400 | 2,417,900 |
asserted that Professor Huebner, who appears in this list, is the same Dr. Huebner as the one who later took part with Schroeder in the sea-water experiments. You also know that this error was corrected and that at the conference there was a Professor Huebner but that the man who appeared as an expert in the sea-water ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,417,850 | 2,418,350 |
high ranking offices. QCould it be said that you had stage fright? AYes, that could be said. QYou do not recall having heard Holzloehner's or Rascher's reports? ANo, I don't. QAfter reading your paper, did you hear anything about these reports, Holzloehner's or Rascher's reports, or the experiments that preceded them i... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,418,300 | 2,418,800 |
subordination. Q.I only wanted to correct the generalization which you drew. You followed up that problem after that meeting. What did you do? A.In the subsequent time I carried on a large number of animal experiments, which were to show the influence of seawater and different forms of nourishment upon the animal organ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,418,750 | 2,419,250 |
using this material. I don't see the materiality of whether or not Schaefer conducted himself in an ethical manner in other experiments. The point at issue here is whether or not he is implicated, whether or not he took pert in the plans and enterprises involving the seawater experiments at Dachau. The Prosecution char... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,419,200 | 2,419,700 |
Schering A.G., Berlin-Charlottenburg, as a technical-medical assistant. At that time Dr. Feldt was chief of the department; Dr. Schaefer, his assistant, whose laboratory assistant was Mr. Kaulisch. My main task was to make animal experiments, and, as this work for Dr. Feldt did not take up all my time, I frequently als... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,419,650 | 2,420,150 |
on the animal experiments, Exhibit No. 18. Dr. Schaefer, did you not also study the thirst problem by means of experiments on human beings? AYes, during the course of 1943 I carried out some hunger and thirst experiments on voluntary human subjects who were free. They were technical assistants who in part were working ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,420,100 | 2,420,600 |
or two days longer if one can remain in bed. "All these hunger and thirst experiments were carried cut by Dr. Schaeffer for the Luftwaffe; otherwise he continued working for the firm Schering." Q.Only one thing for clarification, Dr. Schaefer. With these experimental subjects you experimented neither with Wofatit nor w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,420,550 | 2,421,050 |
however, disproved the existence of medical scruples in this direction. "otherwise the problem was dealt with on a strictly scientific basis, and two applications for patents were filed. "By late fall 1943 the process was developed to such an extent, that at a lecture given by Dr. Schaefer no criticisms were raised by ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,421,000 | 2,421,500 |
that page in the document, yourself? A.No, I haven't. Q.I should like to quote from the end of Document 20 - Exhibit 23it says: "Summary: When preparing potable water from sea water by means of Wofatit SW, no silver or barium ions appear in the drinking water either if the given proportion of Wofatit to seawater, i.e. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,421,450 | 2,421,950 |
in a position to certify the signature, because this Dr. Schuster is not available. MR. HARDY:Your Honor, this document is addressed to the Defendant Schaefer, and it could be duly authenticated by putting it to the Defendant and having the Defendant identify same, but I am merely pointing out that for the sake of this... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,421,900 | 2,422,400 |
carried out by Unterarzt Dr. Schuster. In these experiments the effect of hydrochloric acid on Wofatit is investigated according to the question of whether free barium can appear in the gastric juice when Wofatit has accidentally been taken. Dr. Schuster finds with one gram of Wofatit a maximum value of approximately 2... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,422,350 | 2,422,850 |
be translated into German for the German document book but unfortunately this was not done. For the information of the judges and the prosecution it is in the English original in the English document book; however, in the German document book it is also in English, but nevertheless I would like to read the letter. MR. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,422,800 | 2,423,300 |
in inorganic chemistry which apply to the means for removing salts from sea water. "4. Question. Before Schaefer recommended the method, was a chemical analysis made to shows (1) that neither free barium nor silver are present in the drinking water, and (2) that the salt content of the sea water was completely eliminat... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,423,250 | 2,423,750 |
officers. All of these men drank water prepared with Wofatit, and large-scale manufacture and introduction of this preparation was recommended. QWhat did you have to do with the so-called Berka method? ADr. Becker-Freyseng went into that point at great length. I received from the Medical Inspectorate in the first month... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,423,700 | 2,424,200 |
means natural sea-water naturally, Your Honor, yes. In the German original it says just "natural." QNow, from Exhibit 40, Document 27, will you please quote, or will you please explain the significance cf this document regarding anamneses? AWhen I came to Vienna, Mr. von Sirany went with me in his uniform as Oberstarzt... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,424,150 | 2,424,650 |
his preparation was simply something that covered up the natural taste of sea water and consequently was much more dangerous than sea water itself, because the soldiers would have the illusion that they could drink unlimited quantities of it. However, Mr. Berka was not to be persuaded and come forward with medical expl... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,424,600 | 2,425,100 |
young physician argued with physiological reasons, which, however, I do not remember in detail. I know nothing regarding the details of possibly planned series of experiments." JUDGE SEBRING:Just a moment, counsel. I notice that several of the affiants who have submitted affidavits here that their names appear in Prose... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,425,050 | 2,425,550 |
tho Technical Office, which had come to recognize me as tho most radical opponent of tho Borka method, was in charge of the meeting. Well, that is to say Christensen was presiding and he simply would not give me the floor, and since I was an Unterarzt, a non-commissioned officer, I could not take it on my own initiativ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,425,500 | 2,426,000 |
1944 returned in an enraged state from Vienna where he had informed himself on the development of the experiments with the Berka preparation. He was furious at the stupidity of some men who had even proposed such a thing and he told me that this preparation merely altered the taste and that he would have nothing to do ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,425,950 | 2,426,450 |
made to examine the necessity of these experiments, namely, by receiving testimony from medical specialists. Now I put in Documents 32 and 33 in order to show what the medical specialists did in this matter. First I should like to read Document No. 33 which will become Exhibit 35; it is on page 116. Document No. 32 wil... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,426,400 | 2,426,900 |
agreed on at that time." And Document 32, Exhibit 36, page 113, reads as follows: -- Q.This, Dr. Schaefer, is the conference of the 25th of May? A.Yes. DR.PELCKMANN: "At a conference in the spring of 1944, which was held at the Military Medical Academy, the following took place, as far as I can recall: "Among the parti... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,426,850 | 2,427,350 |
to the health and Herr Eppinger therefore suggested that his assistant, Dr. Beiglboeck, who had much experience in the field of metabolism, should be placed in charge of these experiments. "Some months after this first conference there was a meeting of numerous physicians of the Wehrmacht, presided over by Generalstabs... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,427,300 | 2,427,800 |
explained to Mrs. Koenig and which are corroborated in her affidavit, misgivings concerning prisoners? AThere was no mention of prisoners in this discussion and I could not return to something that had been said in a previous discussion and take that occasion to express my private opinions of that experiment on prisone... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,427,750 | 2,428,250 |
the Berka preparation as completely useless. They also had to submit to other strong attacks and the meeting had nearly been broken up." The threats against Schaefer charging him with sabotage can also be seen from this document and also from Herr Pahl's affidavit, which is Document No. 40 to which I have given Exhibit... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,428,200 | 2,428,700 |
whatever its name was, and in this letter, my collaborators and my Institute were reproached of sabotage. As far as I recall, a correspondence took place between the two agencies named, the subject of which I do not remember in detail. Later I heard no more about it. Anyway, the fact remains that both my scientific col... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,428,650 | 2,429,150 |
have taken a particularly great interest? A.I am Professor of Internal Medicine at Frankfort and predominantly, I have dealt with the question of circulation, metabolism blood pressure or kidney diseases. Q.Which are the German Universities where you have been a lecturer? A.Halle and Frankfort. Q.Have you been an autho... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,429,100 | 2,429,600 |
complex of questions which are of interest here, and that at the end I would then permit myself to put a few concluding questions to the expert here as, of course, any defense counsel and prosecutor is entitled to do, too. The other possibility would be that I put a number of individual questions to the expert which wo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,429,550 | 2,430,050 |
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