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not a question of testing Wofatit. Q.On 25 May you were with Schaefer at least part of the time? A.On 25 May, yes. Q.How long was it until you saw him again after that? A.A few weeks later, perhaps five weeks. Q.At least you didn't see him daily or at brief intervals? A.No, I was normally 50 kilometers south of Berlin;... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,340,000 | 2,340,500 |
far as I can remember today I think that the only word in that sentence that originated from me is the word "perhaps". Q.However, Witness, you signed this version; would you please express this more precisely to the Tribunal; did you wish that to mean that Professor Rose had the most to say in this field, in other word... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,340,450 | 2,340,950 |
physicians? A.I only attended one such conference, the one in May of 1944 at Hohenlychen. Q.Do you know whether Dr. Beiglboeck ever attended such a conference? A.I never heard anything to that effect, at any rate I did not see him in 1944. Q.What was Dr. Beiglboeck's rank? A.Rank? Q.Rank! A.At the beginning of June, wh... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,340,900 | 2,341,400 |
he wanted the location to be changed. I told Beiglboeck that I would gladly agree, but I was sure he would not he successful, and I mentioned such and such a reason. Q.Dr. Becker-Freyseng, don't misunderstand me. I don't want to incriminate you in any way, but want to bring out the truth here. I simply say that for one... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,341,350 | 2,341,850 |
all the equipment, retorts, and what not that he needed for the experiment, he had to provide for himself. The second thing that surprised me concerned his relationship to his colleagues who were present and who were SS officers. This relationship was so poor that Beiglboeck was obliged to eat not in the SS officer's m... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,341,800 | 2,342,300 |
the experiment must be necessary, that there is no other solution; No. 2, that it was well prepared through animal experimentation, model experiments, and selfexperiments; and No. 3, that it was under the so-called medical action rule; and No. 4, the subjects must be volunteers? A.Those are the conditions under which I... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,342,250 | 2,342,750 |
Assistant Referents were there? A.I said yesterday that only a few of the Referats had Assistant Referents. I believe that there were perhaps two other Referents -in other Referats, not in the Referat for Aviation on Medicine -- which had assistant Referents. Q.What was the total number of personnel in the Referat for ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,342,700 | 2,343,200 |
in the Medical Research Institute. I cannot recall any other duties at the moment. QWell now didn't, as a matter of fact, all assignments pass through your office when you were Referent to Schroeder -- all research assignments? AI described that at great length. I said that the Referat for Aviation Medicine, aside from... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,343,150 | 2,343,650 |
in some particular research and in order to initiate a program you must have orders so that you could have Haagen or any one of your consultants at various universities who worked on a particular problem commence their work, who would issue that order? AResearch assignments were issued only by the Chief of the Medical ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,343,600 | 2,344,100 |
which he could make his decision. Or, if this was a field which the department chief knew was within the special field of Anthony's work, then the department chief -- and this often happened when Anthony was on trips would have ordered that efforts be made to reach Anthony by telephone and to put the problem to him. Th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,344,050 | 2,344,550 |
had the authority to issue a research assignment or order? AThat is not to be seen in this sentence at all. Now, let me say regarding the translation, that it is not a question of the translation "research order" or "research assignment", but what you read me before was read to me that "it would be quite a while before... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,344,500 | 2,345,000 |
the Luftwaffe was known to Schroeder. Every detail of it. Because he issued it. It was his order. Nobody else's. AThat is true only after 1 January 1944. QThat is when he became chief. That is correct. After he became Chief of the Medical Services of the Luftwaffe, Schroeder was personally acquainted with each and ever... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,344,950 | 2,345,450 |
QDidn't Schroeder say that whenever any of these research assignment problems came up he always turned that over to Becker-Freyseng, on page 3618 of the transcript? AIt is quite possible that he said that, but I think if you had asked him more exactly just how that was done he would certainly have said that if he, for ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,345,400 | 2,345,900 |
their seats. The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal I. Military Tribunal I is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal. There will be order in the courtroom. THE PRESIDENT:Mr. Marshal, will you ascertain if the defendants are all present in court. THE MARSHAL:May it plea... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,345,850 | 2,346,350 |
thirtyfive chambers. Q.Then did the manufacture or reconstruction of each chamber take place in this factory in Frankfurt? A.No, the Frankfurt factory sent their engineers to the place where the low pressure chambers were located, because they were firmly built into the ground. They were so-called immovable chambers an... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,346,300 | 2,346,800 |
Ruff attempted to secure spare parts for his pumps -- that barometers for low pressure chambers could be obtained from that source? A.I wouldn't assume that, because the firm manufacturing such barometers was the firm Fuess in Berlin. I know of no firm for barometers in Cologne. Q.Now, doctor, in a low pressure chamber... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,346,750 | 2,347,250 |
before, I never performed any experiments, where we could observe danger for our experimental subjects by means of the electrocardiograph. We used other methods in order to make that observation. After what I heard here from Dr. Romberg on the witness stand, I know, or I can confirm, that by means of the electrocardiog... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,347,200 | 2,347,700 |
at Rechlin he would have had to ask for permission for that from Professor Hippke. QAnd, of course, professor Hippke would then consult with you inasmuch as you were his expert on low pressure chambers? AYes, normally that would have to be assumed. QWell, did he consult with you when Ruff asked to transfer the low pres... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,347,650 | 2,348,150 |
longer sufficed for modern requirements. The modernizing of these immobile low pressure chambers became my main task. The mobile low pressure chambers on the other hand were all built during the beginning of the War. For that reason they all complied with these requirements I just mentioned, so that it was no longer ne... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,348,100 | 2,348,600 |
here. I heard that Dr. Ruff obtained the approval for the use of these chambers from Professor Hippke. In other words, at that time he didn't consider himself competent enough to send this chamber to Dachau on his own initiative, but obtained Hippke's approval for that. Q.Then Ruff and Hippke had jurisdiction over the ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,348,550 | 2,349,050 |
the assignment and determine whether or not it was necessary at this time, inasmuch as you had a lack of manpower and a war going on; now, the research assignment must have been approved in the Referat for Aviation Medicine wasn't it? A.I don't quite understand what you said. Did you say it was my task to approve all r... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,349,000 | 2,349,500 |
from my medical chief, but I got it from my departmental chief, however, in the final analysis it did come from him. Q.Did you understand at that time that Rostock's position was chief of science and research of the Reichscommissar for Health and Sanitation under Dr. Brandt? A.I think that I knew that at that time. Q.H... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,349,450 | 2,349,950 |
money was allocated; what did you direct or what did the Medical Inspectorate direct the researchers to do in the way of reporting? Did you have some check on just what was happening to your money, A.Yes. Q.How often did you request the particular scientist; how often did you require reports from the particular scienti... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,349,900 | 2,350,400 |
that happened before the film was shown and at that time he of course knew none of the details. I can't say thethor it was Professor Kalk or Dr. Bruehl. Q.I understand that this film in this meeting was supposed to be a secret matter; was it not? A.I know nothing of that and the only knowledge I have comes from the doc... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,350,350 | 2,350,850 |
my department chief, who ordered me to do so. Q.Who asked you? You say Dr. Marzius asked you to attend this meeting? A.Yes, Dr. Marzius ordered me by request of the medical inspectorate to go there. This office was just one floor below my department, that is, under the department of Generalarzt Dr. Marzius, and in this... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,350,800 | 2,351,300 |
as long as I was present. I was only asked to attend the conference after it had already started and I left Professor Hippke and Rascher before the end of it. In other words, I was only present for a brief period during the middle of the conversation. Q.Then as near as I can gather there were two things you heard at th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,351,250 | 2,351,750 |
for the arrangements of the meeting in October 1942? A.There was not a committee. The preparations for the meeting, not only this meeting, but all of the twelve meetings of this nature which the Luftwaffe held, were always made by the referent because he was in charge of discussions later and I had organizational tasks... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,351,700 | 2,352,200 |
March, April, or maybe six months before, or even the summer before, June 1941? That might fit into all these plans. Are you certain of that date - June 1942? A.In June 1941 I was not yet an assistant referent in the Medical Inspectorate. I was in Roumania at that time. Q.Could it have been in August 1941? Q.That is qu... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,352,150 | 2,352,650 |
did Hippke concern himself with matters in the field of Aviation Medicine without referring to the referent? AVery frequently I am sure. I alone of quite a number of matters, where Professor Hippke for example, delivered lectures on aviation medicine. QHow do you know about them? ABecause I heard them later. QHe never ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,352,600 | 2,353,100 |
experiment? AMy personal opinion is that under the conditions an incarcerated person volunteers readily for such an experiment when a special miti gation of sentence is promised to him, and even if no such promise is amde, because he can assume that by participating in such an experiment he will put himself in a good l... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,353,050 | 2,353,550 |
my own plan which I mentioned of treating a group of the Luftwaffe at Jueterbog in order to have experimental persons at the disposal at any convenient time. This plan was rejected by my superiors, I pointed out that as a last possibility that these experiments, which I considered completely harmless, and I take the re... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,353,500 | 2,354,000 |
quite extensively concerning the adaptability of experimental subjects to high altitudes, inasmuch as you are an expert in this field, a man who has done considerable work in Heildelberg since the end of the war in explosive decompression, can you tell me how many times an average individual can undergo a high altitude... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,353,950 | 2,354,450 |
two weeks to be complete. At even higher altitudes, for example, in the Andes or the Himalayas, it is possible for the mountain climbers to go up to 8,000 meters and adapt themselves to this altitude and this of course takes even longer. Between this true altitude adaptation and what occurs when a person rises rapidly ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,354,400 | 2,354,900 |
you can ascend without oxygen, that is an ascent experiment. If I repeat the same experiment after three, four or six weeks, I can determine whether you can remain in for a longer time at the same altitude or at the same speed or whether you can go to a higher altitude without becoming sick. That test is very simple. Q... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,354,850 | 2,355,350 |
secret matter and he was to give only as much information as necessary. QThat meeting in October in Nurnberg was a Luftwaffe meeting; was it not? AYes, it was a Luftwaffe meeting or a meeting on behalf of the medical inspectorate of the Luftwaffe. QDo you know where Jarisch is now? AI assume that he is in Innsbruck. QD... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,355,300 | 2,355,800 |
the letter goes on to say, doctor: "At the same time he (which refers to General Oberstabsarzt Professor Hippke) asked for permission to carry out the cold and water experiments in Dachau and asked that the following be engaged in these experiments," and therein we note three names, Jarisch, Holzloehner and Singer. Now... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,355,750 | 2,356,250 |
pathologist on it so that he can perform an autopsy in order to determine the cause of death. A.I cannot exclude that possibility because as a result of the files which I read and which were submitted during the trial of Milch regarding Professor Hippke, I can see Professor Hippke admitted that possibility which you ju... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,356,200 | 2,356,700 |
opinion when I suggested that interpretation to him, it should be warm blooded beings, instead of warm blooded subjects. QI now continue, doctor. It is immaterial to Prosecution whether that is subject or whether it is being, I might add. But did this research order to Professor Dr. Holzloehner initiate from Anthony's ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,356,650 | 2,357,150 |
file notice about the conversation between Hippke and Rascher which I handed to Anthony when he came back from his vacation. He then continued to deal with this matter. QThen on the face of this document it indicates to us that it originated from Anthony's office and this further that out - we see Anthony's signature a... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,357,100 | 2,357,600 |
schedule of the conference is enclosed." Now, then, as a result of this order from Hippke Holzloehner, Rascher, and Finke are to give a report that is a concise report at the Nurnberg Freezing Conference in October, isn't that the gist of this document? AWere you talking about an oral report? Or a brief report? Yes, in... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,357,550 | 2,358,050 |
is all I can tell you about him. Q.We note on the next page, doctor, the first name is Anthony. A.Yes. Q.And thereunder, we go down to #7. That is your name. A.Yes. Q.We go down to #11 and we find the name Buechner. A.Buechner, yes. Q.Do you know that gentleman? A.Yes. Q.Was he the gentleman that worked with Professor ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,358,000 | 2,358,500 |
the results thereof were obtained from practical experiences and not from experimentation? A.Yes, I may remind you that the situation under which Professor Schroeder read the report and under which I just heard of it orally were entirely different. I knew beforehand, by virtue of my participation in Hippke's and Rasche... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,358,450 | 2,358,950 |
in human history. Q.That's true. It may well have been a re-discovery, but it had been discovered in 1880 by Lepczinsky, had it not? A.Yes, it says so somewhere here. Q.Well now, Doctor Weltz here had admitted repeatedly that, in his own experimental work on animals, that, in addition to Lepczinksy's earlier experience... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,358,900 | 2,359,400 |
method? To be sure some 100 gentlemen, as set forth in this document listened to this report by Holzloehner, what did they do about it, did they use it? A.Well, let me point out to you that during this meeting a number of researchers held lectures on the basis of a number of experiments and all arrived at the same resu... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,359,350 | 2,359,850 |
to prove that quick rewarming was applied. I believe that will be quite easy to prove. As to the Professor Lepczinsky -- Q.Now you are getting at it; you are coming along with me. Then the method was actually applied, the method of Lepczinsky was actually applied in the German Wehrmacht? A.I said before I didn't know t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,359,800 | 2,360,300 |
subjects, and herein he refers to human curves, and data concerning human curves, unless it was on a human being. I would think that would be elementary, wouldn't it, Doctor? A.That is not elementary, and it is not true, because such cooling curves can, of course, be obtained from blood, it can be determined how long a... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,360,250 | 2,360,750 |
station in Besan. I am convinced that part of the findings were based on actual experience in practice in rescue from the sea. Q.Let us examine a few of these pages, Doctor, the next paragraph Holzloehner says: "The rapidity with which numbness occurs is remarkable. It was determined that already 5 to 10 minutes after ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,360,700 | 2,361,200 |
Q.Let us go to the next paragraph, Doctor, here is the most preposterous and obvious passage. This is the beginning of the next paragraph, No. 43 of the original, page 11 of the document and page 89 of the document book. This states as follows: "With a drop of the rectal temperature to 31 degrees, a clouding of conscio... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,361,150 | 2,361,650 |
the document book, page 43. This is the top paragraph. The next sentence therein, it states: "It is certain that the rapidity of the drop of temperature increases when the neck and occiput are washed by water." Do you see it? A.Yes, I see it. Q.It would take pretty careful observations from a boat, a rescue boat, to fi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,361,600 | 2,362,100 |
he not, which I understand was an abbreviated and expurgated edition of what he actually said at the meeting; is that right? What did he say at the meeting to elaborate on this point in the corresponding procedure on human beings to be used, inasmuch as they found such good results on their work on animals? A.I believe... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,362,050 | 2,362,550 |
looking for, do you? You did not find out the necessary information from that manner, did you, if you just pulled him in, you can't be certain how it reacts, you have to determine how an animal rescued would react, in comparison to the reaction of a human being. You have to have some sort of comparison. Isn't that what... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,362,500 | 2,363,000 |
work, would you be willing to assume full responsibility for everything contained in Holzloehner's report as being completely on the level, nothing criminal about it. I think you are being a bit naive, doctor, here is Lutz who came here and testified it was obvious just what the report meant. DR. TIPP:Mr. President, in... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,362,950 | 2,363,450 |
"I think you most gratefully for the great assistance that cooperation of the SS has meant for us in conducting the experiments, and beg you to express our thanks too, to the commander of the Dachau camp. Heil Hitler Prof. Dr. Hippke." Now whatever impression was given to the listeners at the Nurnberg conference after ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,363,400 | 2,363,900 |
is that what you mean? QUnder arabic number 1 - AYes, you only see two numbers which do refer to referat. The first says 55, etc. 2 II B and then 55/14 - the rest is missing. I don't know what the original says. QThose references, be there one, two, or three - refer to Anthony's office, is that right? It is very simple... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,363,850 | 2,364,350 |
true. QAnd so on down through the document? AYes, that is true. QThat is all I have in that complex, Your Honor. However, I have one request to make of the Tribunal before we adjourn today. Dr. Tipp has requested that he be permitted to see the defendant BeckerFreyseng,this evening. I have agreed that he could see Beck... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,364,300 | 2,364,800 |
defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, German, on 28 May 1947, 0930, Justice Beals presiding. THE MARSHAL:Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats. The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal I. Military Tribunal I is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal. There wil... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,364,750 | 2,365,250 |
exact information. These men are all in the American service -- Dr. Hans Goerg Klamann, Dr. Luft and Dr. Benzinger. I myself did not carry out this specific type of work myself, and I did not work on it in the referat. Unfortunately, I am unable to answer your question. I can only refer you to the correct source. Q.Wel... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,365,200 | 2,365,700 |
the date of publication. A.Primarily, aviation medicine institutes and research workers; also the consequences resulting, for technique, were available to the technical agencies. Q.Then they would have been available to the defendants Ruff and Romberg? A.I am sure they read the reports which were published previously. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,365,650 | 2,366,150 |
interest in that. I presume in 1940 or 1941. I don't know. Perhaps already before the war. I really don't know. Q.When did the registry number 2F come into existance? A.According to the documents which you have submitted here it must have been in June 1943. There are some among the documents dated during this month whi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,366,100 | 2,366,600 |
sac cultures are to be continued. Therefore the 4,000 RM requested for the research fund are being placed at your disposal." QWould you kindly explain to the Tribunal just what you mean by that Paragraph? Q.This paragraph merely means that the assignment earlier given to Haagen to develop a method for producing typhus ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,366,550 | 2,367,050 |
something clear, it can be proved any time. Q.Well, doctor, when you issued or when you approved pardon me, that is the wrong word, too. When you suggested that 4000 RM be set aside for Haagen's work what did you do to investigate the necessity of the continuation of this in order to determine the efforts were being us... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,367,000 | 2,367,500 |
issued I got in touch with the Budget referent if it was an aviation medical assignment and I gave him the necessary information. If it was in some other field either the other referent went with me or I got a written note from him so that the Budget referent could be convinced that the use of this money was sensible. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,367,450 | 2,367,950 |
spotted fever epidemic prevailing at Natzweiler at present is connected with the vaccine research." Do you have any knowledge of that particular instance? AYes, I know now that in 1944 there actually was an epidemic in Natzweiler. QWhen did you first learn of that? AHere, at the beginning of the trial. QYou never heard... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,367,900 | 2,368,400 |
this fourth paragraph doesn't refer to an epidemic at Natzweiler. This refers to "investigations at Natzweiler." The third paragraph is referring to an epidemic they've heard about and want to know if these "investigations at Natzweiler" have any connection with the epidemic. Isn't that what that letter conveys? It's p... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,368,350 | 2,368,850 |
934, I have already explained very carefully that I am unfortunately unable to give a definite explanation, because I do not know where the list comes from. I gave a number of possibilities that might explain why the Haagen assignment is suddenly listed as secret, although in all documents, including the ones which you... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,368,800 | 2,369,300 |
to my referat but sent it to the referat which was interested in such epidemics. That was the Hygiene Referat and therefore I never saw this letter before this trial and certainly never had to work on it. QLet us go on to the discussion of the sea-water experiments, Doctor. I notice in the sea-water document book, the ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,369,250 | 2,369,750 |
(prior to this time Becker-Freyseng had been assistant to Anthony who was chief under Hippke) took the position that the experiments conducted by Sirany were not conclusive since the conditions were not as difficult as those on the high seas." Is that the position you took? ANo, my position was the opposite.Again this ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,369,700 | 2,370,200 |
method existed and then the technical office no doubt got in touch with Mr. Berka. QWho informed the technical office about the Schaefer method? AHere again I should like to refer to my direct examination. I said that in the first days of December of 1943, Dr. Schaefer himself demonstrated his method and gave the neces... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,370,150 | 2,370,650 |
for these experiments because it was my duty. First of all I had to prevent the Berka method being introduced without being tested again and we had to determine what advice should be given to the aviators and seaman, if for medical reasons Berkatit could not be introduced, and for economic reasons the Wofatit could not... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,370,600 | 2,371,100 |
fraud. I never said such a thing. I don't know how you could have come to that conclusion. I simply explained that the Technical Office had drawn up a medical report and that, unfortunately, in so doing a large number of errors were committed and, in 1944, I drew the Technical Office's attention to this fact but, since... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,371,050 | 2,371,550 |
this, that I was convinced that for this experiment we undoubtedly could have found forty persons in Berlin, but not the forty people whom we needed for the experiment. It would have been easy enough for the prosecution to find witnesses to prove that, in the summer of 1944, there were certainly not forty healthy young... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,371,500 | 2,372,000 |
medical man, contained that information. Was that information incorrect? A.Not only were they erroneous then, but they still are. Q.Let's turn to Document No. 474, the affidavit of Dr. Konrad Schaefer, a defendant here, Prosecution Exhibit 131, on page 60, Document Book # 5, paragraph 3. Turn to the third sentence ther... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,371,950 | 2,372,450 |
a sentence such as it stands here; namely, that after using the Berka method, serious damage is to be expected after six days -- that sentence is something that a medical layman could write but not a medical specialist. First of all, after you take Berkatit nothing can happen to you. What the layman wants to say is "af... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,372,400 | 2,372,900 |
such general terms. Q.It it possible they could have convulsions, that is the symptoms of the effect of drinking sea-water; isn't it? In a hundred oases might it appear in one? A.I never heard that. DR. TIPP:Mr. President, again the objection that I unfortunately had to make yesterday I have to make again. Mr. Hardy is... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,372,850 | 2,373,350 |
this sentence here in this report written by a lay-man, Christensen, states: "External symptoms are to be expected, such as drainage, diarrhea, convulsions, hallucinations and finally death." That is a pretty good accurate statement, isn't it? A.Let me say first of all in general it frequently occurs that lay-men do mo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,373,300 | 2,373,800 |
you said here in direct examination? A.That was a part of what I said in my direct examination, but not all and what you have left out I consider very important, namely the conditions under which the experiments were to be carried out, which were decided on in the presence of Professor Eppinger and Heubner, which was f... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,373,750 | 2,374,250 |
just carry out the first six days and consequently can see in the twelve day experiment everything that I could see in the six day experiment. Q.You have elaborately explained the experiment. I haven't asked you that question at all. I have asked you concerning what Christensen wrote in this report right here in this p... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,374,200 | 2,374,700 |
is that evidence? A.It seems very simple to me - Mr. Christensen says -- Q.Where is the evidence that you had experiments after that time, after the 25th of May, on cadets? Where is that evidence? A.Refer to the affidavit of the Commander of the Medical Academy of the Luftwaffe. I don't believe you will accuse him of c... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,374,650 | 2,375,150 |
on Christensen's part, who confused experimental danger with the experimental situation, who never in his life had carried out any medical experiment. Q.What did Professor Eppinger think about using concentration camp inmates? A.I can't tell you because I never discussed the matter with Professor Eppinger; Q.Did he exh... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,375,100 | 2,375,600 |
have his files and there are in my original draft the changes that he made. Then the letter was submitted to the Chief of Staff and finally was submitted to the chief himself to be signed. QAccording to the translation of this document by defense counsel, Dr. Marx - the important sentence that we have been discussing h... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,375,550 | 2,376,050 |
method because what we needed for experimental subjects were healthy persons from the age of 18 to 30. No person among the specialists concerned ever mentioned or thought of death in connection with these experiments and in this letter too there is no mention of death. It does not even say in this letter persons condem... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,376,000 | 2,376,500 |
carried out for 12 days with the dangerous and unsatisfactory Berkatit. And I believe I can leave the rest to the proof of the actual results of this experiments, which shows that they were carried out as I have just described QDoctor, at the top of this letter we see the registry number 2F. How does it happen that you... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,376,450 | 2,376,950 |
I don't know whom I might have sent it to. And, moreover in my direct examination I said at great length that this first sentence refers to the fact that I informed Professor Schroeder at that time that Professor Holzloehner had carried out experiments in Dachau and that Rascher had stated in Nurnberg that these experi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,376,900 | 2,377,400 |
PRESIDENT:As far as I know, no member of the Tribunal has seen the certificates which were filed concerning these different trans lations. I understood that the interpreters, who reported to the Tribunal in open Court, would file a written statement of what they had reported. If Counsel desires to cross-examine the wit... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,377,350 | 2,377,850 |
THEPRESIDENT(Interrupting) Just a moment before propounding those questions. What have you to say concerning that procedure, Mr. Hardy? MR. HARDY:I say concerning that procedure, Your Honor, that it isn't proper to ask the court interpreters this questions. This is a academic one. The Office for Chief of Counsel for Wa... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,377,800 | 2,378,300 |
date, but that was, as I understood it, and it was in answer to an objection previously raised, by Dr. Marx, not Dr. Tipp. JUDGE SEBRING:Well, Mr. Hardy, if that has been done, shouldn't it be a very easy thing for you to procure copies and deliver them to such Counsel the Defense as are interested and perhaps deliver ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,378,250 | 2,378,750 |
further the Tribunal can state prior to taking a recess? DR. TIPP:Perhaps, Mr. President, I could ask that the noon recess be until 2:00 o'clock. In the period of one hour I doubt whether I or Mr. Hardy will be able to make these necessary ascertainments. MR. HARDY:Your Honor, I think the best solution to this problem ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,378,700 | 2,379,200 |
not know what the reason for this is. I do not know why this decisive document has not yet been given back to me and perhaps the Tribunal can help me in obtaining this translation in time to use it in the case of Becker-Freyseng. THE PRESIDENT:The Tribunal has been advised that the Translation Department is very heavil... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,379,150 | 2,379,650 |
the Tribunal desires a copy of that memorandum. MR. HARDY:I would like to have it read into the record and turned over to the court reporters and then returned to me and I will have a sufficient number of copies made for the Tribunal. THE PRESIDENT:Has defense counsel any objection to that proceeding of that being read... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,379,600 | 2,380,100 |
"If the German meant what Dr. Marx claims it to mean, then the same sequence of words used in this English translation would also exist in the German version. "The German sentence unequivocally states that up to now animal and human volunteers have been experimented upon and a final solution is now demanded. "It is cor... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,380,050 | 2,380,550 |
second time, after the experiments. Before the experiments, I talked to Professor Beiglboeck this question, as I have already testified on direct examination, not for legal reasons did not interest us at the time, but for medical reasons. After the experiment, I talked to Professor Beiglboeck about the question of volu... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,380,500 | 2,381,000 |
comment doesn't raise a little suspicion in your mind since he suggest the use of Jews or prisoners held in quarantine". Maybe they weren't going to be volunteers and maybe they were. A.I thank your for admitting the theoretical possibility that it could have been volunteers, but unfortunately I am unable to answer you... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,380,950 | 2,381,450 |
different race, might give unreliable results. This is a very childish statement from the physiological point of view; that would not to be expected at all. If Prof. Schroeder had seen this letter he would probably have called up the Reichsarzt SS and reminded him that he had promised him to find the experimental subje... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,381,400 | 2,381,900 |
learned it during the course of the experiments when I agreed to meet Beiglboeck near Vrutstein. And unfortunately came two days too late because of an air raid on a train on which I was traveling. I found a short note from Professor Beiglboeck when I got there and it is possible it said something about gypsies but in ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,381,850 | 2,382,350 |
Nordic citizens they wouldn't have been in a concentration camp, would they? A.I would not know for certain. I was never in a concentration camp but I have heard since and. I have seen the witness Kogon who looks definitely like a Nordic type, and I wouldn't consider it impossible for Nordic gypsies to be in a concentr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,382,300 | 2,382,800 |
that one of the experimental subjects in the course of the experiment became unconscious: If the man in charge of the experiment wanted to wait until the subject woke up, and said, "Let's stop the experiment now", that would have been too late. Q.Then actually the conduct of the experiments was up to the discretion of ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,382,750 | 2,383,250 |
lasted only about ten minutes and that was the end of it. Q.Dr. Beiglboeck gave a complete clinical report of the results of the experiments? A.He gave a report on the clinical course of the experiments, yes. Q.Did he state what symptoms were apparent as a result of the application of sea-water to the subjects? A.Yes, ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,383,200 | 2,383,700 |
do you wish to point out? A.First of all Dr. Schaefer is perhaps the only person who saw a film. It must have been such a secret showing that only Dr. Schaefer noticed it. No film was ever taken. At any rate, I never saw one and there at the bunker meeting no pictures were shown. Q.He could have meant by that merely ph... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,383,650 | 2,384,150 |
A.Thank you for the information. Unfortunately I do not have the document. DR. TIPP:Might I ask Mr. Hardy to give me the exhibit number of this new document. I know only what one is in the document book. MR. HARDY:The same number, your Honor, since the affidavit was only sent down for the jurate. DR. TIPP:Has it alread... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,384,100 | 2,384,600 |
the experiments they were put then on stretchers, covered, with a white sheet and delivered to the morgue, as testified here to by the witness Viehweg. A.I think you mean the criminal Viehweg who is charged again for calling himself a doctor illegally. So much for Viehweg. And as for the dead persons whom Viehweg says ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,384,550 | 2,385,050 |
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