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to him. If Bouhler was not there, they came to me or to one of my associates. The prosecution has used the words "liaison man" for me. This is confusing. As far as I can remember I did not raise any objection to that term at the time. Perhaps I even used it myself, but I have just realized that a liaison man must be lo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,205,000 | 2,205,500 |
influential man in euthanasia. The witness Mennecke doubtless had this impression, but I can only emphasize that his impression is not correct. I was nothing but Bouhler's deputy, or, as the prosecution called me in its opening speech, Bouhler's assistant for these questions. Q.Witness, from the cross examination of Mr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,205,450 | 2,205,950 |
that all those who were interested would get a draft of the law in its form at the time, so that they could send in their suggestions. Q.Now, how about the meeting of lawyers? A.This meeting in the Ministry of Justice was a meeting of lawyers who had to discuss all sorts of questions, and it was an answer to a request ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,205,900 | 2,206,400 |
inform the various justice officials of these things can be seen from the prosecution documents. The Administration of Justice had had difficulties because of euthanasia, which I had not foreseen, but these difficulties arose because of the element of secrecy. AsNO 156shows, Bouhler told Guertner that he alone consider... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,206,350 | 2,206,850 |
I saw no reason why any difficulties should arise." MR. HARDY:May it please, Your Honor, in the case of Becker-Freysing, which will come before this Tribunal after the completion of the Defense of defendant Vokter Brack, the Prosecution has charge the Defendant Becker-Freysing in the Indictment under count one with Con... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,206,800 | 2,207,300 |
was the reason? AI don't know. In my interrogation, I discussed these things properly. I said tha foreigners, World was veterans, in this case whore the war injuries wore the cause of their insanity and Jews were excempted from euthanasia. A list was shown to me and I had to assume it was a transfer list from one insti... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,207,250 | 2,207,750 |
and every participant will be able to confirm it. Q.Witness, it seems somewhat peculiar to me. I may assume that Bouhler was not interested in having a questionnaire filled out about every mental patient in Germany, if a special category of patients, would not be concerned with euthanasia, is that right? A.That is corr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,207,700 | 2,208,200 |
to fill out this questionnaire for foreigners. A.I personally was in a position to observe the development of these questionnaires and I was present when Linden and Bohne presented them to Bouhler for approval. These questionnaires were sent to all German mental institutions through the Reich Ministry of the Interior. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,208,150 | 2,208,650 |
which are contained therein, -- criminals and patients of certain kind -- would also include nationality and race. In that way one achieved camouflage of the exception directives, and one also avoided questions being put by outsiders just why foreigners are to be excepted, Q.Witness, if I understand you correctly - it ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,208,600 | 2,209,100 |
participated i's in no way connected with Euthanasia - and, really, it does not deserve the name of Euthanasia. I must emphasize again and again that Euthanasia, after August 1941, was stopped by order of Hitler. The assertion of Mennecke - and I already spoke about it yesterday where he said that he had received Himml... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,209,050 | 2,209,550 |
compiled by the Prosecution - a list of 22 death notices taken from some Saxonian newspaper. In this list you will find a remark in Paragraph 3, that they are veterans of World War 1914-1917. On 4 you find he was bearer of the cross of honor for war veterans and you will find something similar in figure 3. These are pa... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,209,500 | 2,210,000 |
Fuehrer decree says nothing to the effect that these sick persons would die natural deaths in the course of events. Is that true? ANo, there is nothing to that effect in the decree. QIs it correct that a person 15 years old can be incurably ill and yet live to a ripe old age as far as you learned that from physicians. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,209,950 | 2,210,450 |
epileptics who had been in an institution for only one year, even if he did semi-skilled work, let us say he worked in the office? ANo, then in accordance with the limitations that I just mentioned he would not have to report because he was capable of working. QThen ability to work was of some importance in these quest... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,210,400 | 2,210,900 |
the questionnaire. In other words, length of illness, length of time in other institutions, etc. Now, if these points applied, then, of course, a patient had to report even if he had only been in the institution for one month, but that stay in that institution for only one month could have been preceded by years and ye... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,210,850 | 2,211,350 |
the patient personally. The next suggestion of this sort - of course, I can't tell you what doctor made this suggestion now - the next suggestion led to the fact that the questionnaire in many institutions, and particularly in institutions which were not led by certified doctors, had expert commissions right on the spo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,211,300 | 2,211,800 |
euthanasia program. Now, this number of 50,000 to 60,000 mental cases - does that have to be brought into any proportion to any other number in order to get a correct picture of the situation? Do you understand this question? A.This number can only be brought into proportion with the number that runs into the millions ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,211,750 | 2,212,250 |
aside for further observation, over and beyond the judgment passed by the actual specialist. It never happened that the expert specialist said that this child cannot be subjected to euthanasia, and that Brandt or Bouhler said no, nevertheless we will approve euthanasia for this case. That never happened, rather the exp... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,212,200 | 2,212,700 |
and they will expedite it as soon as possible. DR. FROSCHMANN:Thank you. I received that information already. Q.Witness, continue please. A.I have only to add that regarding details of the expertizing procedures at the Reich Committee I know nothing, because I was not concerned in that. I know, however, through Bouhler... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,212,650 | 2,213,150 |
that these patients had been assembled at Eglfing, they were full-blooded Jews of Polish or German nationalities or stateless Jews. At the same time he reported to the Bavarian State Ministry of the Interior on 20 November 1940 that the patient transport corporation transferred them to a collecting center in Berlin. Th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,213,100 | 2,213,600 |
form in a numbered transport list, these lists contained the first name, the next name, the place of birth and the date of birth. It contains no reference, however, to nationalities. I pointed out earlier that the benefit of euthanasia was to be given only to German citizens. These documents,NO-1131, Exhibit ..... Q We... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,213,550 | 2,214,050 |
this document one can see that the name Bertha Wertheimer was listed there and she died in Chelm on 3 December 1940. This Bertha Wertheimer, according to the file-note, was transferred there by the patient transport company. One can therefore conclude that the entire transport went to Chelm. Q Was Bertha Wertheimer in ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,214,000 | 2,214,500 |
the 191 Jewish men and women were subjected to euthanasia, is incorrect and is refuted by what I just explained. QWitness, you remember that the witness, Dr. Pfannmueller said that he learned later that these Jewish insane patients were sent to Lublin. You have already said that you knew nothing whatever about all thes... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,214,450 | 2,214,950 |
of the patients under observation there. QIs it true again that after the period of observation Linden's office again issued instructions to the transport company and thus arranged for the transfer of the patients to a euthanasia institution? AYes, I mentioned that briefly yesterday. QIs it true that at the same time a... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,214,900 | 2,215,400 |
to the Reich Working Union? AYes, I do not deny their accuracy. QI am speaking here only of two documents which I should like to bring to the attention of the Tribunal. These are NO. 1129, Exhibit 354, English Document Book 14, page 179, and No. 1130, Exhibit 344, English document book 14, page 188, witness, concerning... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,215,350 | 2,215,850 |
was given as appendicitis although the appendix had been removed long before that. I cannot doubt the accuracy of the documents submitted by the Prosecution in this respect. QMr. President, there are three documents concerned here, No. 828, Exhibit 361, English document book 14, page 228, alsoPS 628, Exhibit 362, Engli... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,215,800 | 2,216,300 |
happened. To see how carefully these things were dealt with can be seen by the fact that Dr. Schumann, who, as head of euthanasia institution at that time, asked, for instructions as to what he was to say to a complaint he had in regard to two sisters who had died. This letter is not in the German document book. It was... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,216,250 | 2,216,750 |
be turned over to the Reich Chancellory. These complaints of Catholic Church leaders led to a detailed discussion between the representative of the Catholic Church, Bishop Vinken and because of the opposing view of Hitler in this question, no agreement was reached at that time between the Ministry of Interior and the C... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,216,700 | 2,217,200 |
a long time, and that a law had developed this way so that, not only the government people, but the general population, were convinced that Hitler had the right to issue such decrees. Now I come to the final chapter of my case. That is, the Euthanasia problem as seen from the point of view of the defendant toward this ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,217,150 | 2,217,650 |
of all, I am not a lawyer, in the second place I considered the decree perfectly legal. Later, I heard from jurists, and read the writings of Binding-Hoche, and Ebermayer, and I was convinced that a state has the right to pass such a law. And I remember at that time having read that some states in the United States, we... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,217,600 | 2,218,100 |
that exhibit? AYes. JUDGE SEBRING:When is the first time the text matter that appears in Brack Document No. 32 came to your attention? AThis is the first time that I received the document. From my studies of literature which I spoke of at the beginning of my testimony, but from what individual pieces of literature I do... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,218,050 | 2,218,550 |
be assumed that a large part of the population shared that opinion and for very concrete reasons. I should like to assume that the majority of the group believed in the justifiability of the measure and this was justification for the Chief of State passing such a law. QThen, so far as you can judge, from the legal poin... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,218,500 | 2,219,000 |
so far as I have seen and observed such persons myself, is from the point of view of a mentally healthy person a seriously suffering and hopelessly lost creature. He is simply a wretched remainder of what was once a whole man. In the opinion of psychiatric science and in the opinion of philosophers there are difference... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,218,950 | 2,219,450 |
I wished only to ask the witness whether, in treating this problem, he had religious misgivings and whether the religious misgivings that were expressed to him by others were taken into his consideration. That was the purpose of this question. THE PRESIDENT:You may ask the witness that question. BY DR. FROESCHMANN : QW... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,219,400 | 2,219,900 |
consider it correct and decent from the human point of view to spare sick persons long years behind walls, or did you consider it more worthy to shorten this life through a mercy death? AI saw this not only as humanely unworthy, but as heartless, to leave these poor creatures for years and years behind walls. That is n... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,219,850 | 2,220,350 |
idea of persuading Hitler to do away with this secrecy once these matters became a matter of general discussion and to publish the contents of the law regarding euthanasia. For this purpose, with Bouhler's approval, I got in touch with a film company. I received a manuscript which, to be sure, could not be used in that... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,220,300 | 2,220,800 |
in when the document is prepared. DR. FROESCHMANN:Let me say briefly that this document describes the negotiations between the defendant Brack and the director at that time. When the Tribunal has this supplementary Document Book I shall return to this document and ask that the right to do so may be reserved to me. THE ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,220,750 | 2,221,250 |
lead to a gas chamber and there were killed by the gas carbon monoxide (CO) by the doctor. QWhere was that carbon monoxide obtained, by what process? AIt was in a compressed gas contained, such as compressed oxygen or atzethylen is kept in for welding a big container. QAnd these people were placed in this chamber in gr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,221,200 | 2,221,700 |
I mean Bouhler's organization - never used any other gas or other means. QYou found the carbon monoxyde quite satisfactory, so you never had to resort to any other means? AYes, you can put it that way. QNow, where was it that these four people were accorded the privilege of a mercy death in December, 1939 or 1940? ATha... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,221,650 | 2,222,150 |
all men? AYes. QNow, can you remember on your subsequent visits in 1940 to the other Euthanasia stations who the people were; men or women? ABoth, sometimes men and sometimes women. QAnd what can you say in regard to their nationality? AI can only say that those were only Germans, because I am perfectly convinced that ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,222,100 | 2,222,600 |
were excluded from the Euthanasia program, if as you say it was a salutary program according to people the privilege of a mercy death for taking them out of their misery; why was it that the German Jews were not included in that program? AI have already said that.As Bouhler explained it, the philanthropic act of Euthan... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,222,550 | 2,223,050 |
from attendance before the Tribunal today, it appearing their absence will not prejudice their case. The Secretary-General will file the medical certificates. The Tribunal has some further questions to propound to the witness. VIKTOR BRACK - Resumed EXAMINATION BY THE COURT (Continued) BY JUDGE SEBRING: QWitness, I thi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,223,000 | 2,223,500 |
who had the responsibility of building them, was that your department? AThe orders, I assume, were given by the head of the institution but I don't know who actually gave the orders. QIn other words, were these chambers not build according to some specifications, plans and specifications? AI can't imagine that, every c... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,223,450 | 2,223,950 |
or 5 x 6 meters. Simply normal sized rooms, but I can't say the exact size. It was too long ago. I can't remember. Q.Were they as large as this court room? A.No, they were just normal rooms. Q.Well, a man of your intelligence must have some idea, about the size of these rooms. The assertion "normal size" doesn't mean a... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,223,900 | 2,224,400 |
and carry it on back to the camp; pay for it out of his pocket? A.No, not out of his own pocket but through the institution. The institutions bought it, I mean. Q.Do you know from what sources the institution bought it? A.Yes. All the funds came from the Reich Ministry of the Interior. They were advanced to him by the ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,224,350 | 2,224,850 |
there were announcements to the agencies concerned, for example, the guardianship court. These files were all sent to T-4. Q.They were finally sent to Tiergarten Strasse 4? A.Yes. Q.Isn't it true that only in that way could an accurate record or report of this program be made? A.I didn't understand whether this fact cr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,224,800 | 2,225,300 |
at each of the institutions, with the exception of Hadamar, at least once, perhaps twice. Q.And on each occasion did you witness the according of a mercy death to a group? A.Yes. Q.And I believe you said yesterday that some of these groups were adults, that some groups were men, other groups were women, and that on som... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,225,250 | 2,225,750 |
before it was first suggested as you have testified; when was it you first heard of this program? A.When Bouhler told me about it. Q.About what date was that? A.That was in the summer of 1939, either July or August. Q.Had you ever heard of euthanasia before that time? A.No, I had heard nothing about euthanasia before t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,225,700 | 2,226,200 |
extended to those persons who were wounded in the first war in 1914 - 1915; did it not? ANo, to all of them. QBut it did include the wounded of the first World War of 1914, '15, '16; did it not? AYes. QThey had then been suffering from insanity for many years; had they not? AYes. QBut it was concluded to exempt them fr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,226,150 | 2,226,650 |
information or the direction to stop the administration of euthanasia? AI don't remember; it could only have been Bouhler or Brandt. QWhen was that? AInAugust of 1941. QWhere did you receive the order? AI was in the office in Berlin, in Voss Strasse. QBut you don't remember from whom you received it? ANo, I really cann... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,226,600 | 2,227,100 |
Strasse 4? ANo. QWhere? AOne of these six institutions I named. The questionnaires were sent there. I said yesterday that the last doctor, the one who actually administered euthanasia had to compare the questionnaire with the case history and personal data of the patient, which came with the patient. QWell, was there n... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,227,050 | 2,227,550 |
the photostat on which the chief expert had entered the observation notations, so that the euthanasia doctor would have all the records on the patient, because he alone had to make the final decision. QYou said, "he alone had to make the final decision". Who is "he"? AThe doctor in the euthanasia institution had to dec... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,227,500 | 2,228,000 |
to him? Were they his deputies, or what was the relationship? A.There was no relationship whasoever. Professor Heyde and Professor Nietzsche, and also, later, Professor Schneider, were the top experts working for Bouhler. I know of no relationship at all. Q.Was Karl Brandt your superior? A.No, Bouhler was my superior. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,227,950 | 2,228,450 |
Your Honor. BY DR. HOFFMANN: QWitness, this letter was sent by the Deputy Gauleiter of Niederdonau; his name was Gerland. Have you any idea as to how Gerland got to know of Himmler's plans? AI have no idea about that at all. I remember now that I found that letter when studying the documents, but I really don't know ho... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,228,400 | 2,228,900 |
the documents in evidence now. DR. FROESCHMANN:Yes, Your Honor. Mr. President, in the supplementation of my submission of evidence I now submit the following documents contained in my Supplement No. 3: Document 48, to be found on page 15. This is an affidavit by Dr. med. Walter Schultze. It boars the date of April 28, ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,228,850 | 2,229,350 |
which was handed the Tribunal as an exhibit, but anyhow we agree that this is certainly part of the document, so I do not think it necessary that Defense Counsel give this page a now exhibit number. It is a part of document 1696, which is Prosecution Exhibit 357. THE PRESIDENT:The document offered by defendant Brack sh... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,229,300 | 2,229,800 |
am submitting to the Tribunal here, was obviously one which was published in the Ministerial Gazette, but which refers to a preceding decree dated 18 August 1939, which was not published in the Ministerial Gazette, but which was only circulated to the individual agencies as a circular decree. For that reason this decre... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,229,750 | 2,230,250 |
the film at first agreed when Brack had not appeared yet. Then he heard that the Chancellery of the Fuehrer was involved, and had misgivings because he believed that this was a political matter, which he did not want to express in a film. He therefore says: "In my spontaneous assent, I became dubious again when Mr. von... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,230,200 | 2,230,700 |
because he is prevented from doing so by his condition, or when he makes such a request without being fully responsible, that is in the case of the insane." I shall skip the next sentence: "Brack was for the killing for the same reasons as in the case where death was requested, that is, out of deep pity for suffering c... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,230,650 | 2,231,150 |
by all sides, even by anti-Fascist artists, and even by the Osservatore Romano, as a work of art, and general surprise was evoked that this should suddenly be possible. This can be credited to Mr. Brack and his refined, not vain, and impartial attitude, which was at all times human. "I got to know Mr. Brack, during the... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,231,100 | 2,231,600 |
duty to inform myself about this as much as possible. Q.Did I understand you correctly in saying the work of Binding and Hoche was the standard work on euthanasia? A.I was told the work of Binding and Hoche was the standard work about euthanasia; in addition, however, I read some other books. Q.Do you know this work of... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,231,550 | 2,232,050 |
you a letter, didn't he? A.Yes. Q.So, you were the person who was approached in such questions, were you not? A.No, I was the person to whom Himmler turned in cases like that. Q.And what about Freissler? Freissler also turned to you, didn't he? A.No; as it can be seem from the documents, I gave certain instructions to ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,232,000 | 2,232,500 |
upon his request sent him a photostatic copy of that decree in order to keep it in his own files. Q.I am at a loss to understand that. You toll me that Bouhler certainly informed Guertner long before that time, so the authorization was not secret any more to Guertner. Why didn't he give him the document, such an import... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,232,450 | 2,232,950 |
wall be Prosecution Exhibit 495 for identification. This is a letter from you to Schlegelberger -- who was the acting Minister of Justice, was he not?-of 22 April 1941; there you have some of these complaints. Do you remember this letter, Herr Brack? A.I don't remember this letter, I would have to read it first. Q.Is t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,232,900 | 2,233,400 |
you handled this matter in the office of Bouhler, didn't you? A.I can remember this connection rather well because Bouhler had already told, me that the Ministry of Justice was compiling such complaints made by the Public Prosecutors. I received these complaints, as they are mentioned here, in about three or four books... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,233,350 | 2,233,850 |
by Heyde. Q.Are you sure about that? A.I said "I believe". I really don't know any more. Q.It was mentioned, wasn't it? These classes of people who were exempted were mentioned? A.I really can no longer say today. Q.Can you tell me about this work of Binding and Hoche? You are very familiar with this work, aren't you? ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,233,800 | 2,234,300 |
whether he is suffering to such an extent that one is justified in relieving him of that suffering. This is an argument that I understood. Q.But there are very many insane who are not suffering at all, aren't there? Who have no pains? Who are, many times, feeling subjectively quite well? Who do not want to die? Is it p... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,234,250 | 2,234,750 |
that witness will testify and have not been able to formally object or acquiesce and I should like to hear from the defense counsel for the defendant Mrugowsky as to the name of the witness and what the witness will testify to. THE PRESIDENT:The defense counsel for the defendant Mrugowsky will advise the prosecution an... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,234,700 | 2,235,200 |
as stated. MR. HARDY:The Defense Counsel has outlined three points that the defense witness will testify too, and it seems to me those points can well be taken Care of in an affidavit as well as taking up the time here before the Tribunal. In that event I would stipulate with tho Defense Counsel after he has executed t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,235,150 | 2,235,650 |
opinion? A.No, no, in no way at all. If somebody has the will to live it would no longer constitute an act of mercy. Q.But, you do remember the document D906, Prosecution's exhibit 376, that is in document book 14, part 3, page 281, Your Honors. And I want to quote only one sentence. Unfortunately I do not have the Ger... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,235,600 | 2,236,100 |
I must assume so. I wasn't always present during conversations between Brandt and Bouhler. QDid you ever receive a list of names of doctors who were authorized to administer euthanasia? ANo. I already stated that I don't know whether I did receive such a list. I don't know whether any such list existed. At any rate I d... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,236,050 | 2,236,550 |
who were active in the euthanasia program. Now, I would like to know whether you can advise us how many exports there were? Experts? AI really can not give you the number. I know there was quite a number of them, 10, 15 or 20. I am afraid that I can't give you the exact number. QHow many top experts were there? AThere ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,236,500 | 2,237,000 |
top experts in T-4, or in connection with T-4, especially Heyde and Nietsche? A.That is very difficult to say. One could perhaps say that Bohne, to all intents and purposes, was the Chief of T-4, hut really, as far as medical matters were concerned, Heyde made the decisive decisions. Bohne was no physician. Q.And you m... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,236,950 | 2,237,450 |
would have lent himself to the carrying out of the euthanasia program in concentration camps, is that correct? In the way it was described by the witness Mennecke? A.I don't think that Heyde would have placed himself at the disposal of something like that. Q.You have further testified that he and Nietsche and Falkelhau... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,237,400 | 2,237,900 |
an incorrect way, I certainly cannot assume responsibility for his acts. Q.But you were the close collaborator of Bouhler, and Bouhler was in charge of the program. The top expert, the first top expert, of the program was Heyde and Heyde carried out these measures. I want to put to you Document No.NO-3799, which will b... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,237,850 | 2,238,350 |
Dachau shortly after the second transport. The action of selecting prisoners unable to work for the purpose of euthanasia in CC Dachau was known under the name 'Aktion Heyde'." DR. FROESCHMANN:Mr. President, I would like to put the question to the prosecution as to whether it intends to offer this Document NO2799 in ev... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,238,300 | 2,238,800 |
as a representative of that program from the year 1944 on. I should like to emphasize again, however, that in the year 1942 I left for the front and since that time had nothing at all to do with euthanasia or its administration. If any person in the year 194is of the opinion that I was Bouhler's representative in the e... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,238,750 | 2,239,250 |
correct? A.I may correct myself. I said that I was not in charge. I had something to do with it and I talked about that at great length, during my examination. Please don't misunderstand me. I don't want you to understand I had nothing to do with it. Q.What was your activity in this? A.I had to submit to Reichsleiter B... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,239,200 | 2,239,700 |
Q.The treatment of children, I am only speaking about children. A.I an only speaking about children, yes. Q.How could it be possible if it was very secret that every official doctor in Germany, who had to report these cases, could give tho children's address and he was not supposed to know about it. A.I beg your pardon... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,239,650 | 2,240,150 |
is exactly stated what the doctor is supposed to tell the parents. All right, let us go on, You remember that Dr. Pfannmueller testified here about the treatment of Euthanasia of a child was initiated, he invited the parents and relatives to visit the child; do you remember that? A.Yes, Dr. Pfannmueller said that. Q.No... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,240,100 | 2,240,600 |
paragraph four! That is what I said. Q.Can you tell mo then, why it was necessary to fill out questionnaires on all people who were interned as criminally insane persons, according to part three of the document. A.Possibly because criminality also represents a special possibility for tho psychiatrist to judge the progr... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,240,550 | 2,241,050 |
money? A.No, I remember nothing at all. Q.I would like to put to y u then document No. 2909, which will be Prosecution's exhibit No. 500 for identification. This is a letter concerned with the same subject. It is to SS Gruppenfuehrer Wolff. "Enclosed I submit to you a demand of SS Gruppenfuehrer Koppe, addressed to the... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,241,000 | 2,241,500 |
That you advanced the plans f r this purpose, can y.u? Y u said that you could n t remember. Can you exclude the fact that y u over had anything to do with this case? A.Yes, I would exclude the possibility. Q.In spite of the fact your name appears n two of these three documents? A.But, I know nothing of them. Q.Somebod... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,241,450 | 2,241,950 |
detail. The Tribunal will now be in recess until 9:30 Monday morning. Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States Of America, against Karl Brandt, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 19 May, 1947, 0930, Justice Beals presiding. THE MARSHAL:Persons in the cour... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,241,900 | 2,242,400 |
that changes were made on your suggestion and on the basis of your information? A.Yes, a few changes were made. Q.And what about the chart, you signed this chart. How did it come about? How was the chart made? A.I have already described that. I think a female draftsman drew up this chart in my presence. I helped her as... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,242,350 | 2,242,850 |
witness Legationsrat Rademcher, for when I had asked as a witness and there were also a number of other agencies who could inform us about the circumstances involved. Q.But Blankenburg collaborated, did he? A.I believe, yes. Q. an I mistaken in as tuning that you wanted to prevent extermination of the Jews, as you and ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,242,800 | 2,243,300 |
here according to document 205, - this is Prosecution Exhibit 163, Document 6, page 39, this is the second report to Himmler in 1942, that you did not write this letter? A.I cannot even confirm it now with any amount of certainly whether I wrote this letter myself or whether somebody else formulated it. Q.But I presume... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,243,250 | 2,243,750 |
millions of Jews in Europe are, I figure, at least 2-3-millions of men and women, who are fit for work." It seems to me your plan would have only worked for these 2 or 3 million; what would have happened to the other 7 or 8 million; you are speaking only in this plan of organization of the people who are able to worm. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,243,700 | 2,244,200 |
sent back and put at the disposal of his superior agency in August or September 1941. Q.What about Schumann? He was the chief doctor in a euthanasia station; was he not? A.Yes, Schumann was the head of the euthanasia station. I saw him for the last time on the occasion when we tried to rescue the wounded in the Winter ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,244,150 | 2,244,650 |
know anything about that? ANo, I know nothing about that; nor do I know that I had sent Mr. Schumann to the Buchenwald concentration camp. QIs the name Morgen familiar to you, M-o-r-g-e-n? AYes. QYou know who he is, will you tell the Tribunal who Morgen is? ADuring the trial here the testimony of Morgen was shown to me... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,244,600 | 2,245,100 |
he came to his later system, and then this system was used on a large scale. "A commission of doctors previously investigated the files, and those insane who were considered to be incurable were put on a separate list. Then the institution one day was told to send these patients to another institution. From this instit... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,245,050 | 2,245,550 |
the defendant Viktor Brack. Mr. President, perhaps the Prosecution would be kind enough to ascertain from the transcript to what time the statement of Morgen referred. As far as I can see from the original document it refers to the year 1944, it is for 1943 or 1944. DR. HOCKWALD:I can't tell you that. The examination w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,245,500 | 2,246,000 |
before. Q.In order to keep the record straight I would like to offer document No. 2737. This is an excerpt of the judgment of the International Military Tribunal about the activities of Eichman and I would like to ask the Tribunal whether I should give an identification number to this document or whether the Tribunal w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,245,950 | 2,246,450 |
copy of this letter. A.May I first ask you what the date of this letter is? Q.Only 1941 is mentioned here. But this is the date of the draft that is what I told you. Did you receive a copy of this letter, Herr Brack? A.I did not receive a copy of it nor did I even see a copy of that letter nor do I know this Amtsgerich... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,246,400 | 2,246,900 |
Question. "1. To the Reich Commissioner for the East. "Re: Your Report of 4 October 1941 Concerning Solution of the Jewish Question. "Referring to my letter of 18 October 1941 you are informed that Oberdienstleiter Brack of the Chancellery of the Fuehrer has declared himself ready to collaborate in the manufacture of t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,246,850 | 2,247,350 |
with my name. I see from this letter and from the date of this letter that all these negotiations were carried out at a time when I was far away from Berlin, when I was on sick leave. If I have the possibility, I hope I shall be able to bring witnesses who will testify to that effect. I must openly admit that at this p... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,247,300 | 2,247,800 |
AThat I really can't say. QI remember that you told me something of this kind when I questioned you today on this document, that you expected in a very short time the victory of Germany, and therefore wanted to postpone the final solution of the Jewish program and hoped that the few months which your suggestion will gi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,247,750 | 2,248,250 |
vicinity of Hartheim? A.No, Mauthausen is near Linz. Q.And where is Hartheim? A.Yes, Hartheim is also near Linz. Q.You know that Hartheim is not far from Mauthausen? A.I assume so. I was never at Mauthausen, I don't know exactly where it was. If they say Mauthausen is near Linz, I know that Hartheim is not far away fro... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,248,200 | 2,248,700 |
might be fatal. Q.Well then, the fact that the child was placed in the institution would not the doctors immediately endeavor to restore the child to something like a normal state as soon as possible? A.I am sorry, I did not understand your question, Your Honor. What do you mean, a normal way of life; you mean to attem... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,248,650 | 2,249,150 |
As Linden said he had to discuss the matter with the parents as tactfully as possible so as, on the one hand, not to leave them the responsibility as a spiritual burden, but on the other hand he had to make it clear to them that it might be possible to release these children from their suffering. QDid they advise the p... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,249,100 | 2,249,600 |
euthanasia of incurably insane in mental institutions, and you said "yes." When you were present on such occasions of euthanasia on insane, did you take any active part in the killing of these insane persons, even by only manipulating some lever or any other kind of machinery? ANo, I did not participate. That was up to... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,249,550 | 2,250,050 |
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