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which Rascher worked and surely realized, sitting in that conference in October that even further deaths were occurring in Dachau, did you object then, as a physician? Did you stand up and object or didn't you go to somebody and say "This must be stopped"? A. No, I did not. There were other people there who realized it... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,025,000 | 2,025,500 |
the second death occurred? A. That was surely the same situation. To go into Ruff's testimony when he said technical assistant he ho now doubt meant some one to take care of the pump. In the DVL that was generally the mechanic, Fohlmeister, or one of the apprentices in the work shop. In Dachau, there was no special emp... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,025,450 | 2,025,950 |
now in session. God save tho United states of America and this honorable Tribunal. There will be order in the court room. THE PRESIDENT:Hr. Marshal, you ascertain if the defendants are all present in court. THE MARSHAL:May it please, Your Honor, all the defendants are present in the court save the Defendant Oberhauser ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,025,900 | 2,026,400 |
have been included in these experiments because they were experiments in which the activity of the heart and thus the control of the heart activity through the electrocardiogram played an important role? Is that correct? AYes, that is so. That can be seen from Himmler's letter. QWhat letter are you referring to? AThe l... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,026,350 | 2,026,850 |
is a point of light moving on a little screen. Q.In this first fatality who started the film in motion? A.Rascher did, on the basis of his constant observations there ; when he wanted to have a part of the experiment registered on the screen he cut the film in. Q.I assume further that running this machine involves also... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,026,800 | 2,027,300 |
the one that involved the second fatality; now in this experiment who took care of the electrocardiogram? A.Rascher must have, but I don't know about this in detail any more because I didn't pay any attention to it. Q.Now please just think of this second experiment; did you not see the dotted light that moved in the el... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,027,250 | 2,027,750 |
is so. MR. HARDY:May it please Your Honor, we are all fully aware that the bench has granted considerable latitude to both prosecution and defense counsel during the course of examination, but it seems to mo that defense counsel this morning has just been giving us a parade of loading questions and answering for the de... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,027,700 | 2,028,200 |
carried his revolver. ANow, if you had wanted to interrupt these experiments for any reason, you, as a civilian, would have had to attack a Captain in tho Wehrmacht and hinder him by force in the execution of his duties? Is that correct? AYes, that is correct. QIs it correct that if you had wanted to interrupt this exp... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,028,150 | 2,028,650 |
before this first fatality. QDid ho say this to you once or several times? AHe said several times that these experiments had been ordered by Himmler, and particularly, when I objected to these experiments after the first fatality, he said again that this did not concern me; that I should not bother myself about matters... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,028,600 | 2,029,100 |
be carried out under such conditions as these. QThe prosecution is further of the opinion that no other fatalities could have occurred if the barometer which you had had repaired had not been repaired. Is that correct? ARascher would certainly have been able to got hold of such a barometer, perhaps he could even have g... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,029,050 | 2,029,550 |
position during this whole time was so weak, on the one hand, because of the refusal to Rascher and Himmler, and on the other hand it was quite clears so that I really saw no reason for my raising an objection at this Nurnberg conference. DR. VORWERK:Mr. President I have no further questions . THE PRESIDENT:The Tribuna... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,029,500 | 2,030,000 |
did you or Ruff discuss your assignment with anyone-other, of course, than the discussion that you said you had with Weltz in Berlin in December 1941 or January 1942? A.After the discussion that Ruff had first with Weltz and then with me, Ruff went to Hippke and got his approval, and the next discussion took place with... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,029,950 | 2,030,450 |
and Ruff, prior to your going to Dachau, can you state how many experimental subjects had been used? A.The experiments in our institute -- I know most about them -- for the first experiments in parachute descents from 12 kilometers, we used six or seven experimental subjects; for the explosive decompression we used jus... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,030,400 | 2,030,900 |
was run every day in your Berlin tests you night run one test or two tests, perhaps something of that sort? -- then in order to accumulate your scientific data or your final analysis and reports, I assume that you would have a card for the experimental subjects; "A", lot us assume, and on that you would set out your fi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,030,850 | 2,031,350 |
of experiments were performed; however, the real work began on the 10th or 11th of March. Q.Can yon recollect what day the tests were finally concluded? I am speaking of the Ruff-Romberg tests. A.The experiments came to an end one or two days before the chamber was taken away; the last day was spent in packing, and the... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,031,300 | 2,031,800 |
to jump. Q.The point is, then, that all of these two hundred to three hundred tests included the combination of explosive decompression and the parachute ascent? A.Not all of them; only those that went above the altitude of fourteen or fifteen kilometers; all of these were connected with explosive decompression. Q.Of t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,031,750 | 2,032,250 |
for your explosive decompression tests, by which I understand tests made at altitudes above fourteen or fifteen kilometers? AThey went up to seventeen kilometers, and as to the number of the experimental subjects, you will have to keep in mind these were members of the Institute. There were about seven. QWere the peopl... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,032,200 | 2,032,700 |
Berlin 1 May. At that time there was this barometer business, so that I was in Berlin for some time. I remember definitely that I was in Berlin on 1 May. Q. When you actually reached Dachau to stay, along about-- Well, when your first came to Dachau, the 23rd of February, where were you billeted in the camp? A. I was n... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,032,650 | 2,033,150 |
for the high-altitude experiments which you and Ruff, in collaboration with Rascher, were going to conduct in the low-pressure chamber experiments. A. Well, according to what the experimental subjects told Ruff and me, approximately 60 persons volunteered specifically for the low-pressure experiments. Q. And I understo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,033,100 | 2,033,600 |
he was a professional criminal who, because of these repeated burglaries, had been put in preventive custody. Q. Do you know what court had placed him in preventive custody? A. No, I do not know that. Q. Now, what do you know about the man, the expert in mechanics, whose name is now unknown to you? A. Why he was there,... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,033,550 | 2,034,050 |
QNow, as I understand it, the sixty or seventy inmates who volunteered for the experiments were professional criminals who were the green triangle? AYes, as far as I am informed. QAll of them were the green triangle? AI didn't see all of these sixty. The experimental subjects said that altogether sixty persons had volu... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,034,000 | 2,034,500 |
documents. I don't know the number of that document. QWhat did the man, Sobotta, do around Dachau in connection with the experiments? ASobotta did nothing except serve the pumps, in addition to taking part in the experiments as all the others did. Sobotta had no special position at all. He, to be sure, was the most ene... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,034,450 | 2,034,950 |
and talked to the sixty or seventy inmates who had volunteered for the high altitude experiments? AI never spoke to these sixty or seventy inmates, but only to the group of professional criminals who were billeted at the station. That was on the 22nd or the 23rd of February, which was the occasion on which I saw them f... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,034,900 | 2,035,400 |
between the ages of twenty to thirty-five, who were generally fit and mentally normal, were to be selected? Was it you who demanded that type of man, was it Ruff who demanded them, was it Weltz, was it the camp commander, was it Schnitzler? Someone had to determine what type of man you wanted to experiment on. Now, who... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,035,350 | 2,035,850 |
were mentally normal? A.Yes, in order to draw a good comparison with the normal personnel. Q.Who was present when the ten or fifteen experimental subjects were selected from the sixty or seventy volunteers? A.I don't know that. I am sure Rascher must have been present. He was the one who selected them. Who else was pre... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,035,800 | 2,036,300 |
generally fit, or what did you say to them. You were meeting them for the first time as an expert who had come to Dachau to conduct certain experiments? You were meeting them for the first time in a concentration camp. They were prisoners there. You were a complete stranger to them, except it was known you were an expe... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,036,250 | 2,036,750 |
and 35, that they were generally fit, with no weak hearts or liver ailments or bad kidneys and that sort of thing - and that they were mentally normal? A.Yes, naturally I didn't examine the livers of these people in detail. Rascher, by order, had carried out this medical examination, but one could see by merely looking... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,036,700 | 2,037,200 |
also at night. At any rate, I heard about that approximately in the middle of April. Q.Who told you? A.Rascher himself told me that. He said that he was performing additional experiments. Q.And that was some time during the middle of April, 1942? A.Yes. Q.And he told you at that time that he was using, as his experimen... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,037,150 | 2,037,650 |
very important, they were obliged to pull the parachute release on their own initiative without being told to, thus proving that they were completely in possession of their faculties, and they recognized the situation in which they found themselves. Q.And all of that data or informatin then was recorded by you and pres... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,037,600 | 2,038,100 |
We of the DVL had no influence on this. Q.How would Himmler know who to extend lienency to unless somebody gave him the names of the experimental subjects who had successfully completed the tests? A.There was certainly the camp card index file on all those who participated in the experiments. These people had moved and... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,038,050 | 2,038,550 |
for example, that out of 21 intended experiments only one was carried out. Consequently you cannot evaluate the conclusions reached as well as if they had been carried out on a great number of persons. Q.But you don't know how many more experiments or tests you probably had to run after the second death? A.If we had co... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,038,500 | 2,039,000 |
decompression chamber was located. This was a large truck, like a furniture van, and there was an ante-room, and in the end was a bench and a table with the EKG apparatus on it, and sitting on this bench I usually wrote up my notes, and perhaps I referred again to the quick silver barometer if I hadn't gotten some of t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,038,950 | 2,039,450 |
that did not result in death; did Rascher make notes of what had happened to the test subjects? ADuring the experiments Rascher wrote down his notes. QWrote down the notes, watched the altitude gauge, observed the cardiogram, manipulated the pressure wheel and did everything necessary to carry out the experiments and t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,039,400 | 2,039,900 |
he spoke German with Rascher. QWas he one of the ten or fifteen men, who had been selected for the Ruff-Romberg experiments? ANo, he certainly was not. QWas he one of the 60 or 70 inmates who had first volunteered, from whom you had selected some ten or fifteen subjects? AThat I cannot say because I don't know whether ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,039,850 | 2,040,350 |
I knew, he sent Neff over to the morgue. QWas there anyone else around there at the time besides Neff? ANo, I don't think so. QWho was running the engines at the time? AThe controls ran throughout the entire experiment, the pumps did not have to be manipulated, only the air pressure was regulated, the access of air to ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,040,300 | 2,040,800 |
station. The room they lived in was only a few meters from the van so that actually they were always available and it sufficed simply to yell in order to get one of them. QIn other words, if anything should happen in the chamber, then a simple yell would bring Sabotta or Neff or the other man to the chamber, because th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,040,750 | 2,041,250 |
precise days. QWere you in there as an experimental subject any time after you had seen the first, the second, or the third experimental subject in the Rascher experiment die? AYes -- I carried out an experiment at 19 kilometres, which certainly took place after the first fatality -- not after the second or third fatal... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,041,200 | 2,041,700 |
experiments in April? AWhen, after that death, did I carry out an experiment in the frame work of my own program, you mean? QOf course, that's what I'm talking about. AI certainly carried out experiments on the very next day and then I went to Berlin. I didn't go to Berlin on tho same day, but carried on the experiment... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,041,650 | 2,042,150 |
the experiment was over. Q.That billet was just several meters from the chamber? A.Yes, that wasn't far at all. Q.Neff, Sobotta, and yourother man whose name you don't know lived there? A.Yes, they lived there too. Q.How long after the death of the first subject was it before the autopsy took place? A.I can hardly tell... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,042,100 | 2,042,600 |
was the one who performed the autopsy, wasn't he, Doctor? A.As far as I could see he couldn't find the exact cause of the death. At any rate, I couldn't clarify the cause myself. Q.Did he make any statements in your presence at the time as to what he considered the cause of death? A.Yes, In the case of this autopsy air... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,042,550 | 2,043,050 |
certificate describing then as caisson workers who were to be taken to the next hospital as quickly as possible. Thus the principle of this illness is generally known also in commercial medicine. Q.Well, it is very much the same thing, then, as the card that a diabetic carried, who may have some sort of a stroke as a r... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,043,000 | 2,043,500 |
some conclusions from it. Q.What conclusions do you think he could have drawn? A.If he would compare that finding with other findings of caisson death cases, and which are known from that caisson literature, he could have brought tho whole thing on the same denominator. However, in one individual case it is very hard t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,043,450 | 2,043,950 |
for instance, have done the same thing, using animals as experimental subjects, if I had had any practical interest in that field, or had expected any benefit. This is a procedure that does not matter at all. For that reason there was no interest in carrying out a larger number of experiments. Q.I believe you said in y... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,043,900 | 2,044,400 |
did Rascher also make a report on his experiments? A.No, at any rate, those experiments were not at all touched on in my presence. He spoke to Himmler once more the next morning, and it is possible that on occasion of ths conference he said something to him about that. At any rate we only discussed experiments of perso... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,044,350 | 2,044,850 |
know exactly what he did, because he may have worked nights or evenings. QHowmany deaths occurred in Rascher's experimental subjects after the repair of the low pressure chamber? AThe two cases of death which I have already mentioned. QNow, then, as I understand it, you finally made a report on the Ruff-Romberg-Rascher... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,044,800 | 2,045,300 |
but I really can't tell you that with any amount of exactitude. QWhere did Zoslak come from? AI can't tell you that either. I don't know where he came from. I believe he came from Silesia, but I really don't know that exactly. QThese were all German nationals who were criminal prisoners who had been condemned to death ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,045,250 | 2,045,750 |
that I had to go from Gate I or something like that up to Block 5, and it also said that I had to use the shortest way to that block. This is customary in the case of official buildings in Germany. When one goes to a certain office, one had always to choose the shortest way. QWitness, is it correct that you were expres... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,045,700 | 2,046,200 |
the concentration camps, particularly details as I know them now. I cannot imagine that anything like that had happened at that time in Dachau. I am sure that they would have told me that once in a while. It may well be, of course, that in principle they didn't discuss such matters. I would rather believe though that t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,046,150 | 2,046,650 |
I think I remember it approximately. Q.Now, I would be interested in the following matter in connection with that document. Did you at that time when making the acquaintance of Rascher know, or did you assume that Rascher had already carried out the experiments with a low-pressure chamber at an earlier date? A.Naturall... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,046,600 | 2,047,100 |
with that contents. The fact that he speaks about the dangerous aspect would not be conspicuous in its self. I think that whenever one makes a demand to the competent supreme authority to give their permission for such experiments to be carried out on prisoners, it is more ample to exaggerate rather than minimize in ca... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,047,050 | 2,047,550 |
of Dr. Romberg, is it your opinion that Rascher in the case of this letter, dated 15 May 1941, which was long before your experiments, perhaps did not at all think about the high altitude experiments of Ruff and Romberg but was thinking of his own experiments, or are you not of that opinion? AWell I am sure he did not ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,047,500 | 2,048,000 |
daily or almost daily. It is very difficult for me to estimate the number of experiments because I didn't page any particular attention to them at the time. I am sure, however, that between fifty and one hundred experiments were carried out. QThat is, from the middle of April until you left there? AYes. QThank you. THE... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,047,950 | 2,048,450 |
are determined after death has occurred. To examine these matters carefully is the task of the pathologist. Q.Then, in order to examine these matters, is it necessary for him to perform autopsies? A.Yes, in order to examine these matters he has to carry out an autopsy. Q.I have no further questions, Your Honor. DR. VOR... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,048,400 | 2,048,900 |
Weltz. Professor Knothe was the President of the German X-Ray Association and, for that reason, is a person well in a position to give a characterization of the defendant Weltz. I quote: "Georg August Weltz ranks among the first X-Ray scientists of Germany; his works, particularly on X-Ray physiology, have been recogni... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,048,850 | 2,049,350 |
the funds to a great extent and which he fitted up with his own apparatus. The work carried out in this institute was also on a high level." Mr. President, I have finished the affidavit of Knothe referring to some characterizations of Professor Weltz. I should now like to ask you to permit me to call him to the witness... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,049,300 | 2,049,800 |
War started I was attached to the Flying Battalion Schleissheim. I participated in the First World War partly as a pilot and partly as a physician. At that time I was concerning myself for the first time with aviation medical problems. The problems concerned the selection of fliers which at that time was an entirely ne... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,049,750 | 2,050,250 |
of the German X-ray Association for Internal Medicine, Association for Research of Circulation, a Member of the Austrian X-ray Association, a member of the Italian X-ray Association, the German Physiological association, the Munich Physicians Society, the Lilienthal Association, and I think this covers all of them. DR.... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,050,200 | 2,050,700 |
a week, and as I already said I had instituted a small experimental department at the Physiology Institute of the University of Munich, which at that time supported me in my work, and this was the occasion for me to qualify as a lecturer. Q.What was the purpose of your scientific travels? A.You mean my scientific ballo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,050,650 | 2,051,150 |
make a decision in two factors, first, concerning the German X-ray association. In the X-ray association there was a danger that the leadership of that association would fall into the hands of a few radical persons who up to that point had played no part in X-ray physiology. If we wanted to preserve the international r... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,051,100 | 2,051,600 |
an intoxicating effect on the person, causing him to have high spirits, which leads to an over-estimation of his own powers and which in no way appears to be dangerous to the person involved. Because of these peculiarities of altitude sickness a number of fatalities had occurred. It was therefore decided to cause altit... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,051,550 | 2,052,050 |
number of questions which we had to solve, but these were relatively rare cases and the tasks had no particular importance. Q.What was your relationship to the Reich Research Council? A.We had no relationship to the Reich Research Council. Q.You say that you had a free hand. Is it to be attributed to you then, that you... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,052,000 | 2,052,500 |
without my ever knowing them. Q.Now would you please briefly describe what your tasks were as head of the Institute? A.As chief of the Institute I at first reserved for myself a field of work, for my own research work, and in addition it was my duty to establish the policy of the entire Institute. As a rule we had disc... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,052,450 | 2,052,950 |
THE MARSHAL:The Tribunal is again in session. BY DR. WILLE: QDr. Weltz, just before the recess I was about to give you DocumentNO-1602PS, Prosecution Exhibit 44; and that is where were stopped at the recess. I shall now send the document up to you. I understand you have it already. Please refer to it. The prosecution m... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,052,900 | 2,053,400 |
Luftwaffe in Munich. The head in this institute at the time was myself. Rascher did not come to me, although I was a lecturer at this course. I did not give him permission to perform these experiments at this institute; and I would not have been able to give him that permission to perform these experiments at this inst... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,053,350 | 2,053,850 |
is, if an order of permission from Himmler is presented, that we could not oppose his wishes. I think that is rather clear in the contents of this letter of Rascher's. I therefore, state once more that Rascher did no talk to me at all at the time. He certainly did talk to Kottenhoff. In his lecture Kottenhoff certainly... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,053,800 | 2,054,300 |
scruples as stated under No. 12, promised him, however, to discuss the matter with Professor Weltz. In the subsequent discussion Weltz shared my scruples." End of quotation. I, therefore, come to the conclusion if your Honor pleases, that Professor Weltz, as far as all these matters are concerned, heard only many, many... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,054,250 | 2,054,750 |
are a group of reactions which in aviation are called acclimatization to high altitude. QNow, will you please answer the question which I put to you before and which you haven't answered yet. What did Kottenhoff tell you when he talked to you about Rascher's plans for the first time? AKottenhoff said to me that Rascher... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,054,700 | 2,055,200 |
told mo about De Kruif. He was an American of Dutch descent. He knew Storm van Leeuwen, and had visited him intending to write something about Storm's work. DR. WILLE:May it please the Court, at this point may I ask the Court whether as an exhibit I would be allowed to submit extracts from the just mentioned book by De... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,055,150 | 2,055,650 |
this Document, because he told the court at that time he explained his knowledge of the admissibility of human experiments to Hippke and he based himself on this book of De Kruif. Therefore, for Weltz in this case the question is not to explain the limitations of human experiments to the court, but only to make it cred... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,055,600 | 2,056,100 |
conversation, it would have been more sensible for you, to refer to a really expert scientific work in this connection? THE WITNESS:I have already said that the formulation, which Hippke and Kottenhoff had seemed to me rather unclear and that I felt a need to clarify my point of view and formulate it clearly. This exam... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,056,050 | 2,056,550 |
Honors, during the course of this trial I believe I have objected to documents being admitted into evidence nearly a hundred times or better but for the first time I am lost for words. I have read these documents and to use the word immaterial might be fine but they are not even remotely connected with what is in issue... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,056,500 | 2,057,000 |
has ruled here that, whenever extracts from another trial are offered to the Tribunal to take judicial notice thereof, it was necessary and a regulation that said extracts be certified by the Secretary General either of the IMT or the Secretary General of the tribunal here. I won't object to this being offered in evide... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,056,950 | 2,057,450 |
never heard Rascher say anything else but that the subjects would be volunteers and, as I have said, that was the reason for us not to discuss involuntary experimental subjects with Hippke. DR. WILLE:If your Honor please, may I interpolate here briefly for your information that the affidavit mentioned here just now by ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,057,400 | 2,057,900 |
apparently convinced some authority at the Air Gau that he should be transferred to my Institute. He that was, I do not know. Q.How did matters progress with Rascher in your Institute? A.Rascher came to me. I refused to allow him to test this slow ascent and how he wanted to perform cold experiments. In the summer of 1... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,057,850 | 2,058,350 |
those experiments in your Institute with Rascher? A.In the experiments with Ruff-Romberg, we were dealing with completely different experiments. These were urgent at the time and Ruff-Romberg have already explained here why, and I gave my approval for these experiments, but these experiments were of a completely differ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,058,300 | 2,058,800 |
will now be inrecess until 1:30 O'clock. (A recess was taken until 1330 hours.) AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1330 hours, 6 May 1947.) THE MARSHAL:The Tribunal is again in session. THE PRESIDENT:The objection interposed to the admission into evidence of Defendant's Document No. 19a, and the following doc... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,058,750 | 2,059,250 |
of such a nature that would have warranted his being suggested for qualifying as a lecturer. In addition, it would have been a matter of course for me to give preference to my own people, who had been working on that subject for a longer period of time. Later, when Rascher was detailed to my institute, which was approx... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,059,200 | 2,059,700 |
out that on the whole these are events which did not happen on definite dates, definite days, for example, I say that Rascher until the end of December 1941 was without any practical work. THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, it is my intention to convey the idea to you to use probably only approximate dates just in order to preser... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,059,650 | 2,060,150 |
part told me that he intended to continue his old series of experiments, the parachute descent from high altitudes, up to 12,000 meters, which was known to me already, but that he could proceed only very slowly because of his difficulties. Not only did he have difficulties because of the experimental subjects being act... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,060,100 | 2,060,600 |
with the demand that he qualify as a lecturer and start the career of a lecturer. For that his qualifications were not quite sufficient for me at that time. Today my judgment about Rascher in that regard is even more severe. Rascher, during the entire period, which I can overlook, did not have one original idea. He alw... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,060,550 | 2,061,050 |
called your first period, you learned nothing against Rascher and his personality or his scientific ability. Now, I should like to come back to a point which is of decisive importance for you. That is the following: At that time, did you go to Adlershof for the specific purpose of offering your collaboration to Dr. Ruf... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,061,000 | 2,061,500 |
Furthermore, it was clear that I couldn't, in any way, retire. I couldn't just leave Rascher to Ruff. It was quite clear that I had to participate in these experiments by exercising supervision but not by actively participating. The program had already been determined. Nothing was changed in the program. It was clear t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,061,450 | 2,061,950 |
have already told us a little about your opinion with regard to Reseller's personality and qualifications, his scientific and non-scientific characteristics which he had at the time. Now, will you please tell us what you told Dr. Ruff in this respect? A.At that time I naturally told Ruff everything I knew. I said in de... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,061,900 | 2,062,400 |
remember a colleague of mine who came back after approximately four months. I didn't speak to him personally but I heard from other colleagues that he reported that he had been treated quite correctly. In addition I may remind yourself, Dr. Wille, that you told me about an acquaintance, the president of the Bavarian Au... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,062,350 | 2,062,850 |
Ruff already described that in detail. I made the suggestion to him and he wanted to consider it. During our second talk with Romberg and Rascher at Munich he told me that Hippke had given permission. I think that was already said here. Q.Was this discussion which you mentioned at your institute the same one which the ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,062,800 | 2,063,300 |
before me as a prisoner. When I arrived, he had already left. It then became known in Dachau that I had engaged in aviation medicine during the war and the camp physician there asked me in a surprised manner whether I had worked at that large institute under the famous Dr. Lutz. Dr. Schneider was very surprised when I ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,063,250 | 2,063,750 |
also in detail.At first we went to the camp commander, we discussed the conditions with the camp commander and I may perhaps suppliment the testimony of Ruff and Romberg to the effect that Schnitzler brought an order by Himmler to the camp commander, saying what kind of experimental subjects were to be used, in other w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,063,700 | 2,064,200 |
of the hospital. QAnd what happened the; when did the low pressure chamber come? AI cannot recall the date exactly, I think the low pressure chamber arrived at the beginning of February, although I cannot recall the exact date. Ruff already described that, he said that the chamber had been handed over to me. In other w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,064,150 | 2,064,650 |
meantime Anthony asking what the situation was as to Rascher, he said that Rascher wanted to be detailed to Dachau and asked, how the Dachau experiments were progressing I told Anthony that I could tell him nothing about the matter because nothing had been reported to me. When Rascher came the second time. I told him t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,064,600 | 2,065,100 |
by Frau Nini Rascher in her letter. May I, perhaps, indicate the number -- this is document No. 263 PS, Prosecution Exhibit 47. QI will come to that afterwards. Now, another question to determine this date. You are certain then that Rascher was relieved in February or at the beginning of March? AWhether this happened i... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,065,050 | 2,065,550 |
this did not become externally obvious because Rascher did not stay with us at all; and, then, Wendt says he hardly knew him, and my own attitude toward him I have already defined. At the end of February 1942, that was the time, I found out that Rascher had brought his father into the concentration camp; from that mome... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,065,500 | 2,066,000 |
36 in the English text. (Continuing question.) This is document No. 263 of the Prosecution, Exhibit 47. This is, in fact a file note of SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Schnitzler of the 28th of March 1942. This document is also in document book 2 of the Prosecution, page 73 of the English; this is document NO. 264, Prosecution... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,065,950 | 2,066,450 |
on to say, "In December of 1941 he - that is Weltz - asked the Board of Directors of the Air Force Research Institute Berlin-Adlershof, if the bosses there, Dr. Ruff and Dr. Romberg could undertake the experiments with Dr. Rascher. Both of them immediately accepted, delivered the lowpressure chamber and came here." Tha... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,066,400 | 2,066,900 |
say you knew that from the outset. Will you please explain what you mean by that? WITNESS:Rascher could refuse us ingress to Dachau at any time. We could only enter Dachau if Rascher had obtained permission before hand, as it was done in the case of our journey to Dachau, or, if, as it was the case with Romberg, Romber... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,066,850 | 2,067,350 |
those experiments and certainly I couldn't assume that Himmler would suddenly recall the permission that was given me originally. Himmler's telegram constituted the opposite to what he had said before, for Rascher says that in a letter by Himmler of the 24th of July he had received permission to carry out those experim... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,067,300 | 2,067,800 |
was not needed any more, Romberg was also surprised that Rascher was now to be chucked overboard in spite of his firm agreements. Obersturmfuehrer Schnitzler has for the time being stopped the continuation of the experiments without Rascher until the decision of the Reichsfuehrer has been obtained." End of quote. I nev... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,067,750 | 2,068,250 |
place one month earlier. This is the first reason why I believe this date should read the 28th of Fe-bruary. The second reason is that in this letter mention is made that I was going to Berlin and was to speak to Hippke. I went to Berlin, naturally, immediately after Rascher had given me the telegram. And I certainly d... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,068,200 | 2,068,700 |
United States of America and this honorable Tribunal. There will be order in the courtroom. THE PRESIDENT:Mr. Marshal, you ascertain if the defendants are all present in Court. THE MARSHAL:May it please your Honor, all defendants are present in the court. THE PRESIDENT:The Secretary-General will note for the record the... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,068,650 | 2,069,150 |
That is why I remember it. After this letter Rascher could have no doubt that I emphasized my relationship of Military superiority towards him, and that I did not desire to grant him the special position which he claimed as a friend of Himmler. Rascher's conduct toward his superiors has been described here repeatedly. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,069,100 | 2,069,600 |
Rascher and Romberg? ANo, I did not know about it. QSo therefore you did not know of the fatalities that happened at Dachau? ANo. I did not hear of any of them. QNow what is your position to what the Prosecution charges that you succeeded at the time in overcoming the resistance put up by the Medical Inspectorate again... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 2,069,550 | 2,070,050 |
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