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quite sure that I did not inform Dr. Genzken about that; I don't know if Dr. Moton informed him, but it is not possible from what I know. Dr. Moton told me that Luftwaffe questions were discussed during that conference, which were of little interest to us and would have brought no practical results. Q.Now, a few questi... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,575,000 | 1,575,500 |
in that circle. The second reason was that I wanted to inform him about the effectiveness of a number of vaccines, which was used for the troops. Thirdly, I wanted to tell him when he could expect the first portions of vaccines for the SS and the amounts he could expect per month. I had to tell him that so he could gag... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,575,450 | 1,575,950 |
QThen consequently the fact that artificial infection of human beings was carried out was not mentioned? ANo, certainly not. QAnd I believe you did state that Dr. Genzken was not to be informed of all details of the tests, or he was to be informed merely as to the contents of Ding's report? AThe contents of Ding's repo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,575,900 | 1,576,400 |
longer subordinated to Dr. Genzken, but you became subordinate to Dr. Grawitz, is that right? AYes, that is correct. QNow in your position as Chief of Amt 16, and Genzken, the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen-SS was under your control was it not? AYes, that is correct. QDr. Ding was a member of the staff of the Hygiene ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,576,350 | 1,576,850 |
or publication. Then you may recall the following words: "From the Hygiene Hospital of Waffen-SS Berlin, Chief, SS Ober Fuhrer Mrugowsky." Now in your own affidavit which is document No. 423, Prosecution's Exhibit No. 282, found on page 7 of the Document Book No. 12, you said the following: "I obtained full knowledge o... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,576,800 | 1,577,300 |
report about the first series in 1942 which I passed on to Grawitz and which he gave me back later to work on. I did not work on these reports independently. They came to my office with the mail and the person working there read them, picked them out and sent them to Grawitz and then Grawitz gave me instructions as to ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,577,250 | 1,577,750 |
at which you smiled, that he almost wore his fingers to the bone typing your name on these reports. And I also call your attention again to an interrogation of 25 October 1946, wherein I asked you: "Q. Did Ding give you periodical reports on his experiments?" You answered: "Yes". I said: "Q. How often?" Your answer: "I... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,577,700 | 1,578,200 |
meeting was not known to you, is that correct? AThat is correct, and I also say that I was not present. QAnd now, you recall that in Document No. 1315, who which was Prosecution Exhibit 454, on page 2, it stated as follows: "The vaccine which is presently being produced by the Behring Works from chicken eggs shall be t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,578,150 | 1,578,650 |
to be vaccinated should be vaccinated with this vaccine. That is a test on human beings. If you mean this kind of experiments on human beings, you are right. But it would not be true if you apply that to Ding's experiments. There is no connection. QDid you ever attend a meeting on 29 December 1941 concerning this typhu... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,578,600 | 1,579,100 |
that was based on my knowledge of the situation at the time. You will remember that you did not show me the diary, you merely read this entry to me; an excerpt and in my direct examination I have stated, and I have just repeated it, that at that time there were several discussions about typhus. It was the most importan... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,579,050 | 1,579,550 |
best typhus expert in Europe, who had dealt with typhus all his life. In 1943 he said all the vaccines from chicken eggs are not well known enough in their effect and there was of course much greater danger in 1941 when we were at the beginning of this period. Q.Now, by the same correspondence it says that this institu... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,579,500 | 1,580,000 |
is later block 46. This second development by-passed the first development because Ding became ill and was not able to work for more than six months and therefore the vaccine production could not begin. Q.I won't argue the point any further, Doctor. I might say, as you stated, it was your intention to set up block 50 f... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,579,950 | 1,580,450 |
such work. I tried in this way to give them an opportunity to work in their own specialty again, not only as doctors but in their own specialized fields. That coincided with my own desire to have vaccine produced, although we did not have enough of our own SS doctors for this purpose and there was no opportunity to tra... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,580,400 | 1,580,900 |
Schreiber's in the Army Medical Inspectorate." You admit that you said that in an answer to a question that Mr. McHaney propounded to you on November 1st, 1946, do you not? AIt is true that I said that? but I point out that it had been five years since the meeting and that my memory was not necessarily quite accurate a... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,580,850 | 1,581,350 |
do such a thing; is that correct? AIt is very fortunate for me that Ding made this statement in the form in which he did. The other person present at this meeting, Prof, Kilian, says quite clearly in his document that in his presence no such assignments were mentioned. That refutes the statement of Ding. I have no nece... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,581,300 | 1,581,800 |
do this on the basis of experience rather than on the written orders. Q One last question, Doctor. As a result of this meeting, Ding then returned to Buchenwald and killed people with phenol injections. You deny that you commanded him to do that, and do you state that Ding did that on his own initiative? Is that your d... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,581,750 | 1,582,250 |
that a copy about the conference Bieber, about the conference of the 29th of December, 1941, went to the institute for infectious diseases, the Robert Koch Institute. I wanted to mention that in this connection in order to clarify what the aim of my questioning was. The prosecutor, during his cross-examination of Profe... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,582,200 | 1,582,700 |
having occurred. Do I understand you correctly if I say that this plan for the experiment, or this large-scale experiment was to be carried out with typhus vaccines which had already been tested out to some considerable extent and had been found to be effective? AThat is correct. It is true that the first experiments h... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,582,650 | 1,583,150 |
that was just the reason Grawitz ordered me to change Ding's original report. It could not be derived from that. QI understand that. But you are speaking about experiments because of an epidemic? AThere were innumerable epidemics at that time. QAt any rate Professor Eyer had to conclude, or rather not conclude that any... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,583,100 | 1,583,600 |
This order already originates from a time prior to the war. I may refer to Dr. Horn's testimony here yesterday who very clearly stated that even members of the S. S. and Waffen S. S. could not enter concentration camps. That was the reason. His testimony was correct. QDo you know for what reason Professor Eyer and Dr. ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,583,550 | 1,584,050 |
an entry in Ding's diary regarding the results of tests on yellow fever vaccine, I am asking you the following: is it correct that you were sent these results and passed then on to Dr. Schmidt? AThe results of these tests were received by me, but as far as I remember, I transmitted them to our main medical depot which ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,584,000 | 1,584,500 |
period of my preliminary interrogations. These charts brought about a discussion with the interrogating officer, and we really arranged that the actual situation should be noted down on paper. In that connection I thought it was necessary to point out that Grawitz never would have received any order from Professor Bran... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,584,450 | 1,584,950 |
says in that decree that Prof. Brandt has the task of steering according to directives, it means that on the basis of directives of Hitler he would have to take certain measures, for each particular case, that is he had no individual powers to act on bis own initiative; is that right? A.Yes, that is absolutely correct.... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,584,900 | 1,585,400 |
think that his arm in this field was longer than I realized at that time. Q.It can be seen from your answer that you were present during the meeting of consulting physicians in 1943? A.Yes. Q.When Dr. Ding-Schuler was giving his well-known lecture. Can you confirm that Dr. Ding in his answer to Prof. Rose's objection s... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,585,350 | 1,585,850 |
with that report, Professor? Q.What did you do with that report, Professor? A.I read it. This was the first time I had heard about Schilling's experiments, and I knew some of professor Schilling's work from literature which concerned a similar subject, and I found out that the old problem was once more raised in this c... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,585,800 | 1,586,300 |
one point to another; I think it took about threequarters of an hour by train; one had to make frequent changes. Q.Well, let me pass on to another chapter. Did Poppendick participate in the planning or leadership of typhus experiments in any way? A.I never heard anything about that. It is highly improbable. Q.Did you d... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,586,250 | 1,586,750 |
were sent into a typhus area to work there, who were vaccinated. These people were free of lice, and in most cases the discovery of a louse on their body was an event which they remembered. If, at a later time they fell ill with typhus we could say with a high degree of probability that particular louse that had been f... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,586,700 | 1,587,200 |
which was then a struck out. This line had to be struck out, because this man did not die of typhus but is still alive today. It was an error on Ding's part, such papers had to be submitted to the competent medical chief for approval before publication. QThis paper was not sent to Poppendick directly? ANo, I am sure th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,587,150 | 1,587,650 |
was repeatedly mentioned that Dr. Ding was giving a lecture about typhus vaccines on the meeting of consulting meeting; is that right? AYes. QIn April of 1943 you informed Dr. Genzken about the intended AHe naturally was tho disciplinary superior of his staff and of tho institute, which was subordinated to him because ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,587,600 | 1,588,100 |
per month. I had to tell him that so he could gage his future for the vaccines accordingly. That were the three reasons why I reported to Dr. Genzken at the time. Q.Did you discuss the question of the furnishing of prisoners in order to make observations about vaccinated and non-vaccinated people and their reactions? A... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,588,050 | 1,588,550 |
Ding's report? AThe contents of Ding's report, and the effectiveness of the vaccines themselves, in that connection, of course, the report was complete, and I don't believe the medical chief needed to know any more than that. QUnder whose control was the Dr Ellenbeck Laboratory, which in the winter of 1943 was set up i... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,588,500 | 1,589,000 |
member of the staff of the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen-SS, wasn't he? AThat is correct, for a certain part of Ding's activity. QHow long was Ding connected with the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen-SS? AUntil the collapse. QNow, I assume that you contend that the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen-SS did not set up the... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,588,950 | 1,589,450 |
obtained full knowledge of the position and activities of Dr. Karl Genzken, and of the position and work of Dr. Edwin Ding, who was Chief of the Department for Spotted Fever and Virus Research at the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen-SS at the Buchenwald Concentration Camp. Several times I received reports to which chart... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,589,400 | 1,589,900 |
sent them to Grawitz and then Grawitz gave me instructions as to whether I was to do anything about them. There was no regular report. QWell now, let me refresh your memory a bit, Doctor. I call your attention to an affidavit of your secretary, which is found in Mrugowsky's document book No. 1, marked Mrugowsky Exhibit... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,589,850 | 1,590,350 |
I said: "Q. How often?" Your answer: "I received his reports after having finished each experiment." Now, Dr. Mrugowsky, in view of all thid do you still maintain that you never issued any orders to Ding and that you were not responsible for the activities of the typhus and virus research station at the Buchenwald conc... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,590,300 | 1,590,800 |
the Behring Works from chicken eggs shall be tested for its effectiveness in experiments. For this purpose, Dr. Demnitz will contact Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. Mrugowsky." As a result of this meeting, were you contacted by Dr. Demnitz? ANo. In the document which I have submitted as coming from Dr. Demnitz himself the sta... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,590,750 | 1,591,250 |
meeting on 29 December 1941 concerning this typhus problem? ANo. QYou state that no such meeting took piece, as stated in page 1 of Ding's diary; is that correct? AThat is my conviction. QYou further stated that if you did have a meeting you would never have taken Ding along; is that correct? AI cannot remember taking ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,591,200 | 1,591,700 |
were several discussions about typhus. It was the most important medical problem in Germany at the time and of course I repeatedly met the same people at these meetings. There are not many people in Germany who have a certain degree of knowledge about typhus and it is also true, as far as I remember, that Rose was pres... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,591,650 | 1,592,150 |
by the same correspondence it says that this institute was set in January of 1942 following these meetings at the Ministry of the Interior and one meeting with Schreiber and Gildemeister. How did it happen that Grawitz and Himmler set up such an institute if they did not attend such a meeting; who told them about this ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,592,100 | 1,592,600 |
was your intention to set up block 50 first and to set it up in the Buchenwald concentration camp; I ask you had that been the procedure why would you report to the Buchenwald concentration camp to set up a station for vaccine when it could have been done in any of your other institutes; was it because you people thoug... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,592,550 | 1,593,050 |
doctors for this purpose and there was no opportunity to train people thoroughly enough. QThat's enough on that line. Now, in your Document Book Number 1, Page 104, which is Mrugowsky Exhibit 19, the last paragraph states: "On request of Ministerialrat Dr. Bieber, it is also stipulated that in a large-scale experiment,... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,593,000 | 1,593,500 |
since the meeting and that my memory was not necessarily quite accurate and that it is much better to base one's opinion on the documents which speak quite clearly. QNow, you have stated here that you never issued orders to Dr. Ding regarding experimentation. I wish to call your attention to Document NumberNO-257, whic... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,593,450 | 1,593,950 |
were mentioned. That refutes the statement of Ding. I have no necessity to do so either. We learn about phenol deaths in the pharmacology at the University; and we fail in the examination if we don't know about it. QWell, in this regard, how would you determine the tolerance of a serum containing phenol, unless you exp... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,593,900 | 1,594,400 |
that Ding did that on his own initiative? Is that your defense to Ding's statement? AI certainly do deny that, yes. I had nothing whatever to do with it. MR. HARDY:I believe this is a good breaking point, your Honor. THE PRESIDENT:The Tribunal will be in recess until 1:30 o'clock. (A recess was taken until 1330 hours.)... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,594,350 | 1,594,850 |
Grawitz about the discussion which is being discussed here, at which Kilian and Schreiber were present, and I told him that the industry should try to produce sera without phenol, as the French serum industry had been doing for same time. I knew that suggestions to that effect had been sent to the industry, but that th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,594,800 | 1,595,300 |
A.No. Q.Never issued any orders to carry out such experiments to Ding, for instance? A.I have already explained what this series of experiments mean. It is possible that I suggested for example that he was to vaccinate one child with one kind of serum and another child with another serum. That is possible; I don't reme... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,595,250 | 1,595,750 |
they were in Berlin, Prague, and some other hospitals, and it is quite possible that I also made such a suggestion to Ding, because I know that I discussed this matter with my assistants, but not with the purpose of starting a series of experiments with artificial infection. QLet's go on doctor. On direct examination y... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,595,700 | 1,596,200 |
finished the high altitude and cold experiments. As far as I remember it was in May, and his experiment only lasted until April, but I was not quite sure whether the meeting might not have been at the end of April, but in any case, and this is confirmed by the affidavit of Pohl, it is certain that I had no opportunity ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,596,150 | 1,596,650 |
about it. I was not in Berlin at that time. Q.Fischer says that the cultures came from the hygine institute to the Waffen SS, doesn't he? A.Yes. Q.You were chief of that institute, weren't you? A.Yes. Q.Now, regarding the epidemic jaundice experiments you said that you knew nothing about those experiments as presented ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,596,600 | 1,597,100 |
A.No, not to me. Q.Did he ever frankly request you to supply him with subjects to be used in experiments? A.No. Q.They you know nothing about any plans concerning experimentation on human beings in the field of hepatitis? A.No, I have no idea about that. Q.Doctor, I want to give you on opportunity to think a moment and... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,597,050 | 1,597,550 |
Q.Now, the Plenipotentiary for Research in Epidemics in the Reich Research Council was Schreiber, was it not? A.Yes. Q.He addressed himself to you with the request to carry out the above experiments, did he not, according to this letter? A.He did not talk to me about the matter. He sent me a letter, and the contents ar... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,597,500 | 1,598,000 |
the most customary procedure in Germany. Q.Now, of course, there was a German regulation existing which prescribed in extraordinary cases when the use of Zyklon and similar materials were permitted that these poisons were always to be mixed with an irritant in order to warm human beings and to avoid danger. Was that ri... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,597,950 | 1,598,450 |
to do with the production of prussic acid. I know only three firms which did not include Stolzenberg and he describes a case - and this is why I remember it - a case where a certain prisoner sent the empty cans back to the firm and he also sent back a full one or a half full one which had not been used. That was, of co... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,598,400 | 1,598,900 |
such decontamination chambers. They had a volume of twelve cubic meters. They were used about fourteen hours a day for that decontamination. One needs a large amount of prussic acid for such constant use, summer and winter. Near Auschwitz I had a hygiene institute, and I know from the head of this institute whom I have... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,598,850 | 1,599,350 |
had constructed the extermination building in Auschwitz, I used Zyclon B, a crystallized prussic acid, which was thrown into the death chambers through a small opening. The older extermination camps Belsen, Treblinka and Wolzek had used monoxide gas. To exterminate 1,500 people between 5 and 7 cans of one kile each of ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,599,300 | 1,599,800 |
my point of view. I have shown some Documents and we have a few in reserve, which will probably be shown in the next few days, they show quite clearly with whom we negotiated on the prussic acid question and for what purpose and what amounts we received. The competent people have testified here that such a connection w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,599,750 | 1,600,250 |
fraud? A.It is my opinion that this fraud was committed in the camp at Buchenwald. Q.You don't deny that Ding's signature appears on the pages of the diary; do you? A.Ding's signature is on it. QJust what portions of the diary or notebook or whatever you wish to call it do you consider to be manufactured evidence? For ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,600,200 | 1,600,700 |
Rickettsia Prowazeki. "4. Thirty - four persons with Behring-normal, Behring-strong (stark), one egg bloated to 250 c.c." Now, if you will turn to you Document Book Number 1, which is on Page 86 of the English and is your Exhibit Number 20, Mrugowski Document Number 10, This is the report which was sent by you which wa... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,600,650 | 1,601,150 |
from Behring-strong; and it also states in the diary that one person died from Behringnormal and one person died from Behring-strong, doesn't it? A.Yes, that's right. The some figures have to occur, of course. It is the report on the series of experiments. Q.That's right. Now, it's obvious that your report contains the... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,601,100 | 1,601,600 |
suggestion of the Reich Health Leader Dr. Conti, that he is the man responsible. Q.And Ding states that Conti was at a meeting wherein it had been established that the need existed to test the efficacy of and the resistance of the human body to the spotted fever serum extracted from egg yolks; since tests on animals ar... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,601,550 | 1,602,050 |
was not so. Grawitz had his associates sign all the letters with Reich Physician SS and Police, and it was signed "AB" which means "by order" (auf Befehl), or else the office of the SS-Fuehrer is mentioned, as in this case, and then it was written SS Chief Hygienist, and that is only signed at one end, the/name without... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,602,000 | 1,602,500 |
performed on artificial infected persons for the control group, don't you? According to Ding's diary? A.I never denied that, and I have explained carefully that at the beginning of this series was the reason for my objecting to Grawitz. Q.Was it customary for you, whenever you addressed a report to a man like Grawitz, ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,602,450 | 1,602,950 |
have to read it up. Q.Now, Doctor, let's pass on to page 42, Ding's diary, which would be in the German copy 10 January 1943, which is rather out of order, you will find it has to do with yellow fever vaccine tests. Now, Your Honor, do you have that, page 42 of Ding's diary. Now you stated on direct examination that th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,602,900 | 1,603,400 |
As far as I remember he obtained that position in July or August of that year. QThen his position as consultant to Handloser and as Chief of the Military Medical Academy, were these matters as elicted here in the Ding diary of any concern to Schreiber? It states here they were in receipt of the Supremem Command of the ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,603,350 | 1,603,850 |
have a working agreement with the Army to test vaccines for yellow fever at Buchenwald? AI told you it is quite possible that it was discussed, that we were going to test the vaccines in the form we have here. That is possible. But any binding agreement that every vaccine was to be tested, no, I know nothing about that... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,603,800 | 1,604,300 |
QWell now, did the Behring-Werke ever send any sample batches of yellow fever vaccine directly to you? AI don't believe so. The packing which Dr. Schmidt described with a long neck, I never saw that myself. I would have had to see it, wouldn't I? Therefore, I don't believe that the vaccine was sent to me. It was probab... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,604,250 | 1,604,750 |
rebutted, you will notice. This letter is dated 5 January 1943, to SS Standartenfuhrer Dr. Mrugowsky, Director of the Hygienic Institute of the Waffen SS: "My dear Dr. Mrugowsky: "We have been informed by Oberstarzt Dr. Schreiber that every batch of yellow fever vaccine must be tested on human beings before it is given... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,604,700 | 1,605,200 |
AYes, we were interested in those which were to be tested. That was an SS interest. On the other hand, we were used for the army in connection with Schreiber and Rodenwald. That explains the matter. MR. HARDY:This is a good breaking point, Your Honor. I have still further cross examination tomorrow. THE PRESIDENT:The T... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,605,150 | 1,605,650 |
by the report of the meeting. I can't tell you exactly from memory. Q.Well, did Ding make it very clear that the experiments were being conducted on prisoners in the Buchenwald Concentration Camp? A.No, he didn't say a word about that. The lecture was similar to the report which I revised on the 5 May 1942. It was not ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,605,600 | 1,606,100 |
that you did not know of any objections, at least you stated that at that time. Now who has refreshed your memory in the meantime, other than Professor Rose? AAs far as the meeting was concerned, I always knew that Professor Rose had objected, but you were just talking about a paper which Ding had written. I assumed th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,606,050 | 1,606,550 |
which is in my document book. Whether any objection was made to any competent agency, to Grawitz, or to Ding himself, I do not know, but it is possible that something was said to Ding about it, because Ding was quite excited for days afterwards. QWell, then, no one at that meeting interfered in the work of Ding or made... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,606,500 | 1,607,000 |
I have no evidence to the contrary. QDid Rose ever approach you, to have you order Ding to carry out these experiments, or to have you take care of the matter? ANo. That would have had no purpose. I had no influence on Ding in this respect. I have told you repeatedly how the situation really was. You are assuming somet... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,606,950 | 1,607,450 |
the organization of these camps. It was a completely separate organization. QWell did you, Mrugowsky, ever write a letter requesting 30 inmates to be used, or 30 subjects to be set aside for Danish vaccine experiments? AI was not in a position to issue any orders in this connection. QI asked you did you ever write a le... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,607,400 | 1,607,900 |
should like first to see the original. The letter is addressed to the Reich Physician SS and Police, Chief Hygienist, that would be Mrugowsky, but at the bottom it says copy was sent to Mrugowsky, SS-Sturmbannfuehrer, on 21 February, 1944. (The original document is shown to Dr. Mrugowsky.) Thank you, I have seen it. BY... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,607,850 | 1,608,350 |
written, these copies have SS Standartenfuehrer without any name under it. MR. HARDY:Yes, Your Honor, on the original you will find the signature of Ding, written in his original hand writing. Please exhibit the original to the Tribunal. (The original of Doc.NO - 1188is handed to the Tribunal.) THE PRESIDENT:This appar... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,608,300 | 1,608,800 |
agreed upon (Signed) Nebe." Now, Doctor, the second sentence of this letter states: "According to our discussion, Criminal Counsellor Otto will arrive in Buchenwald..." You had a discussion with Nebe, didn't you, according to this letter? AThat's true, yes; and I can tell you exactly what we talked about. QJust a momen... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,608,750 | 1,609,250 |
the photostatic copy which has been handed to me, I see that at the bottom at the left there is a notation, "Certified true copy." That is signed by Ding. Therefore, this is obviously only a copy. This is not an original. We do not know what it was copied from. It is not a document which conforms with the rulings of th... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,609,200 | 1,609,700 |
only being marked for identification and not formally. Now, by that I am inquisitive to find out whether or not it will be necessary for us to go through these long arguments again when we formally introduce each document. Now, if that is so, it will just be a repetitious affair on two different occasions. THE PRESIDEN... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,609,650 | 1,610,150 |
were used. At least I was always told so, and until 1944 it was my opinion that only persons condemned to death were used. This letter, of course, indicates clearly that was not the case, but that people were merely professional criminals. At that time during the war such a decision was nothing unusual. It was during t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,610,100 | 1,610,600 |
and the ammunition would not have been there. I have told you that this question was to be investigated by means of this execution. On the question of what poison was used, that is, whether the chemical analysis which had shown a person was aconidin would be confirmed by the chemical symptoms. The question was whether ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,610,550 | 1,611,050 |
first time I ever heard about it. If I had been attacked, I probably would have noticed it. That is not true. I was not attacked. Q.Now will you turn to page 50 of Ding's Diary. The English copy is page 50, which has the entry "Spotted fever vaccine experimental series No. 9." Under 17 July 1944, it would be on page 50... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,611,000 | 1,611,500 |
I am getting at is in particular the examination of the protectively vaccinated persons to be compared with the persons who were not vaccinated. Did you ever order or suggest that Ding carry out experiments of that nature? A.Ding's whole work was on this question. Ding did nothing else in his experimental station than ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,611,450 | 1,611,950 |
infectious the blood of slight cases is compared with that of heavy cases of typhus. In particular the examination of protectively vaccinated persons is interesting in comparison with persons not vaccinated." Now that is addressed to SS Sturmbannfuehrer Dr. Ding, secret memo randum. A.This memorandum is a model of how ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,611,900 | 1,612,400 |
in the case of typhus and secondly the tolerance...... THE PRESIDENT:Counsel, before you interrogate the witness about this document I desire to ask him a few questions. BY THE PRESIDENT: Q.Witness, you have the document before you, have you? A.No, I do not. (Document is handed to the witness.) Q.In the 4th line of the... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,612,350 | 1,612,850 |
a serum for gas gangrene and in view of the time in which it is occurring the document of Professor Killian in my document book proves it. Here it is not serum for gas gangrene but a purely technical discussion of serum in general. That the serum should not have any addition of phenol was a developing work on the part ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,612,800 | 1,613,300 |
said, the delivery of these cultures was not such an exciting event that the member of the competent department first needed the approval of the chief of the institute; that was neither prescribed nor was it customary in the other large institutes. QLater on, I shall submit an official certificate from the Robert Koch ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,613,250 | 1,613,750 |
symptoms of yellow fever. Consequently, this is not yellow fever and it is not possible to induce serious symptoms from this virus extracted from mice. It is a matter entirely without danger. It is much less dangerous than the smallpox vaccination which every child receives. Q.I made an objection to documentNO-1189, Ex... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,613,700 | 1,614,200 |
in connection with the questions of yellow fever vaccine put to the witness by the prosecution, representing Dr. Nelte for the defendant Handloser I should like to ask three questions of the witness in this connection. BY DR. FROESCHMANN: Q.First question -- Do you have the document before you? A.No, but I am familiar ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,614,150 | 1,614,650 |
believe that a capsule alone has 50 such portions of vaccine. Generally the number includes not simply the ampule then being worked with, but it is simply being used as a model for the whole manufacturing series. Q.Now the last question I have to put to you: In view of this document 1305, you, witness, have already sta... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,614,600 | 1,615,100 |
assume now that the defendant Mrugowsky's examination is finished and, secondly, in connection with the witness Otto Dietsch, he has been brought to Nurnberg as a defense witness; and they have no intention of calling him here to the witness stand. I request permission to interrogate Dietsch on behalf of the prosecutio... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,615,050 | 1,615,550 |
this Document Book Number 2, we have here some sixty-eight pages of extracts from the books that are on the prosecution table now which have just been turned over to us for examination by defense counsel. Now, these doctors and scientists here in this dock are not accused of experimentation on human beings as such; but... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,615,500 | 1,616,000 |
such experimentation and that nowhere in the world are such experiments considered criminal, because otherwise the Court would have to know of many objections in literature or in newspapers where such experiments are repudiated. If these documents prove that in almost all nations of the world such experiments on non-vo... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,615,950 | 1,616,450 |
that experiments as such are illegal or criminal. These extracts are not evidence of criminal experiments. If they were extracts of criminal experiments, they would not hide the fact - - - - then they would have hidden the fact that they experimented on human beings. In addition he states to you of using persons in ins... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,616,400 | 1,616,900 |
a governmental authority without having any choice in the matter of whether they would or would not be selected as experimental subjects? DR. FLEMMING:In few of the experiments they are experiments on persons condemned to death, as is the case here in this court. In other cases they are experiments on children. JUDGE S... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,616,850 | 1,617,350 |
be introduced are of that nature, then I don't see any reason for them to be put into evidence here. DR. FLEMMING:To the extent that experiments are carried out on prisoners, it is everywhere in the world the fact that these experiments are carried out on persons who exercise this will, but this will is so limited by t... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,617,300 | 1,617,800 |
it be necessary for me on each occasion to render a formal objection or, on documents of this nature, can we reserve our right to object until the end of the completion of each defendant's case? THE PRESIDENT:Yes, that would be on such documents as this, publications, whether in newspapers, magazines, or books, which a... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,617,750 | 1,618,250 |
first offer an affidavit. It is possible that after the presentation of evidence in the case of the defendant Oberheuser I shall be able to dispense with examining this witness before the Tribunal. THE PRESIDENT:Has the document book been prepared for the defendant Oberheuser? DR. SEIDL:Mr. President, the documents for... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,618,200 | 1,618,700 |
was again admitted to the sick bay where Frl. Dr. Oberheuser treated me. She was the first to ascertain that I suffered from abdominal typhus. I further had erysipelas of the leg and inguinal rupture and furthermore suffered from an intense itch. Frl. Dr. Oberheuser gave me all conceivable care and also saw to it that ... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,618,650 | 1,619,150 |
is your name? A.Herta Oberheuser. Q.Will you repeat this oath after me: I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing. (The witness repeated the oath.) THE PRESIDENT:You may sit down. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. SEIDL: Q.When and where were you born? A.I w... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,619,100 | 1,619,600 |
dermatological clinic. I went to the dermatological clinic at Duesseldorf and completed my specialized training there. As I said, I never worked independently. I had the position of a voluntary assistant there. Then there were some financial difficulties for me and since my father was seriously ill for a long time I wa... | Harvard: Medical Case (Karl Brandt et al.) | 1,619,550 | 1,620,050 |
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