infocom/info/moriarty-online.txt

INFOCOM On Line: Transcript edited by Mat*Rat - ANALOG Computing

Brian Moriarity, author of WISHBRINGER and TRINITY spent several
hours on line with us to talk about Infocom Games.  We learned a
bit about how they're written, and got a few hints about what
we can expect from them in the future.

Conference Visitors:

Mat*Rat  Brian Moriarity  Mike Schoenbach   Charles F. Johnson
Charles Bachand   GRUMMAGE  FROGLIPS REPTILIA  ICDINC (Tom Harker)
ANDREESSEN  JOEPIERCE  ISHELLYOU56 TOMMCCOMB  POCONO  BEEJAY



.<Mat> We're a little early. Things will warm up in a bit.
.Mike Schoenbach> Hi guys.
.Brian Moriarty> Hi.
.<Mat> (Get that, ME EARLY. There's the first of the century!)
> Hi Mike.
> What do you have under construction to follow up Trinity Brian?
> Can you give us any hints at all?
.Brian Moriarty> I'd love to tell you. Unfortunately, we have this policy ...
> of not disclosing products until they're less than ...
> 90 days before ship date. Avoids vaporware.
.<Mat> I have to wait for the CES Infocom party next month?
.Mike Schoenbach> What's a couple of trade secrets between friends? <grin>
.<Mat> This is a "public conference", that's different. :-}
.Brian Moriarty> Yeah, I guess they'll be talking about it at CES. We have ..
> a whole flock of new things coming out.
.<Mat> Hi Charles! Man does Megamax have ME down!
CFJ> Hi folks!
.<Mat> Brian, some of the software from Infocom runs on the.....
> C128, with the enhanced interpreter.......
> but WHY NOT the 130XE?
.Brian Moriarty> The "official" Atari mag mentioned Delphi this issue.
CFJ> Hi Charlie!
.Brian Moriarty> Charles! Nice to see you again! Did you bring lunch? <grin>
.Charlie> Has the party started yet?
.<Mat> Warming up.
.Brian Moriarty> Mat, maybe I should delay answering your question ...
> until everybody is here to listen.
.Charlie> I hope that I don't fall asleep - we had a 3 hour CO
> on CI$ this afternoon.
.<Mat> It will come up again later. Let's be casual for a while?
.Brian Moriarty> About what? (And was the "$" intentional/)
.Mike Schoenbach> Ah, Charlie, don't start with the CI$ stuff when I'm here
> What about the $ource?
.Charlie> Just wanted to see if you were listening - CIS - I stand corrected.
.Charles Johnson> It's easy to fall into the habit of using that $ sign. <hehe>
.Brian Moriarty> Charlie, I hear Pat is "no longer with you."
.Charlie> Correct, he's now a job councelor.
.<Mat> Good ole' Patrick McKelley, the cute little irishman?
> Did he help you hire a replacement then, hee hee?
.Charlie> He needed a change.
.Brian Moriarty> A job counselor? How on earth ... oh, never mind.
.Charlie> CI$ CI$ CIS -- I love it!
.Brian Moriarty> "Cute?"
.<Mat> cute indeed!
.Grummage> Hello, just thought I would pop in for a sec.
.Charlie> Put your feet up and sit a spell.
.Grummage> Sorry got prior commitments.
.Charles Johnson> How's Trinity doing, Brian? Sell well?
> I loved the game, by the way.
.Brian Moriarty> Yes, it has sold tolerably well. Better than we'd hoped.
.<Mat> How do you solve wishbringer in 10 moves or less?
.Brian Moriarty> Mat: I don't think you can.
FROGLIPS> hi just listing for now
.Charlie> And these are official Sysops?
.<Mat> What's the MINIMUM moves to solve Wishbringer? Did you ever...
> calculate that?
.Brian Moriarty> One of our testers did, but I forgot what the result was.
.<Mat> How's Leather Goddesses selling?
.Brian Moriarty> That title did/is doing fairly well. Not a blockbuster.
> But well.
.<Mat> Get much "hate" mail from parents about selling "R" rated code?
.Brian Moriarty> Are you kidding? Oh, we get lots of mail complaining about ...
> LGoP. They complain that it isn't dirty enough!
FROGLIPS> Brian...ever though about  a multi-level difficulty approach?
.Brian Moriarty> Well, WISHBRINGER sort of had that, since you could ...
> solve most puzzles either with (easy) or without Magick.
FROGLIPS> yea...that was a good approach...
> but extend it like leather goddess so that it would be
> applicable to different levels of players...eh?
.Brian Moriarty> It's possible. But it takes a lot of code to handle ...
> all the possibilities.
.Charlie> Someone said that there was a connection between Wishbringer
> and Trinity -- the Glow in the Dark stone is radioactive <hehe>
.<Mat> Do the INVISICLUES sell well? Do they approach a significant..
> percentage of the program copies that sell?
.Brian Moriarty> InvisiClues do okay. But we don't make a whole lot of ...
> money on them.
> We're starting a new Double InvisiClues system, with one book ...
> for both HOLLYWOOD HIJINX and BUREAUCRACY.
.Charles Johnson> When you work on a game for Infocom, is there much....
> actual programming involved? Or is it mainly just re-working....
> the already-existing shell?
.Brian Moriarty> No, CJ. Only 5 to 10% of a game's total code comes from ...
> the "generic" shell. The rest is all work.
.<Mat> Will Infocom take advatage of superior graphics on the ST, Amiga
> and Mac II with graphic/text adventures?
.Brian Moriarty> Yes. My next product will look substantially different on ...
> the ST/Amiga/Mac-class machines. But NO, we are NOT currently ...
> doing "graphic adventures" in the usual sense of the phrase.
.<Mat> Does anyone have any other tough gaming questions for Brian?
.Brian Moriarty> Do you want to ask your C128 question again, Mat?
.<Mat> Ok, why are there versions of INFOCOM Games which provide....
> a more powerful parser, for the C128, using it's extra RAM...
> but not for the 130XE?
.Brian Moriarty> Simple. Our "Interactive Fiction PLUS" games
> (which include Trinity, ...
> A Mind Forever Voyaging, and now Bureaucracy) require a host system ...
> with 1) at least 128K of RAM (512K on the Mac), 2) an 80-column text ...
> display, and 3) a disk drive capable of holding about 275K.
> The C128 is just barely powerful enough.
.<Mat> Oh, the primary limiting factors or lack of 80 column......
> display and disk storage of greater than 130K "enhanced ....
> density" that Atari uses on their 1050s (even though....
> they are true double density mechanisms).
> Maybe if the 3.5", 360K floppies and the XEP80 become realities..
> that woud change?
.Brian Moriarty> Right. But we wouldn't use the 1050 "E-dense" mode anyway, ...
> since there aren't enough users with 1050s out there ...
> and even fewer with 130XEs.
.<Mat> 1050's can't go over 130K without a hardware modification.....
> like the one put out by ICD.
.Brian Moriarty> The XEP80 is a reality, according to Atari. The
> 3.5" drives are ...
> still vaporhardware. But even if both existed, they'd have to be ...
> out there in the tens of thousands before it would make sense ...
> for us to support them.
ANALOG2> We just got in a real XEP80 in the office on Thursday.
.<Mat> The XEP is actually shipping to dealers somewhere?
> Oh, you need me to review it?
.Charlie> Oops! That's better.
> They sent the unit and a disk but NO docs!
.Brian Moriarty> Charlie, I think the docs are ON THE DISK!
.<Mat> So it's likely the 8bit will die of old age before.......
> INTERACTIVE FICTION PLUS hits the machine?
> (Atari 8bits I mean.)
.Brian Moriarty> Unfortunately, that is probably true. But with
> the 520ST coming down ...
> to prices as low as $200 (or less!), does it really matter?
.<Mat> Atari, since the 800XL, has always made "disposable" computers.
> A friend recently tried to sell a $1200 system for $200 and...
> couldn't get it.......
> that was $1200 new, for an 800/810/cassette etc.
.Brian Moriarty> I paid $2000 for myu original 48K Atari 800 system. Today ...
> I could get a much enhanced 130XE system for $300.
.<Mat> Atari is a little TOO HIGH TECH in that they obsolete our....
> machines before we could depreciate them, in a business.....
> application, for example.
.Charles Johnson> My 800 system is getting _very_ little use these days.
> Especially since it's in a closet!
.<Mat> Yes. I've heard stories about 8bit Ataris and CORVUS as ......
> GREAT development systems........
> but NOT EVEN the best of the best on the ST can touch.....
> the 130XE or 800XL, MIO board, and Mac/65.
> Even the main frames at work don't compile as fast.
.Brian Moriarty> STAR RAIDERS is still one of the best, though.
> What's an MIO board?
.Charlie> He doesn't know?
.<Mat> 1 MEGABYTE DMA Ramdisk (parallel bus) for the 8bit Ataris.
.Charles Johnson> (Except that you can do more powerful stuff on the ST!) <grin>
.<Mat> 100K/second file transfer rates.
> More RAM on my 8bit than on my ST!
> And the MIO has room for a piggyback 80 column board......
> if they _ever_ get that done......
> and the MIO has printer and rs232 interfaces built in......
> and a SASI/SCSI interface for a controller and hard drive!
.Brian Moriarty> One megabyte? Good heavens!
> Mac/65. (Sigh.) What a wonderful tool.
.Charles Johnson> Yeah...I'd kill for a MAC/68K.
.<Mat> Ditto!
.Brian Moriarty> No assembler on the C64 even comes CLOSE to Mac/65.
> Take it from someone who looked for one.
.<Mat> A lot of C64 software is developed on the Atari WITH Mac65, such
> as all the 8bit computer eyes software!
.Charles Johnson> Appealing username! Hi, Reptilia!
REPTILIA> Hi, I'm new to Am I coming  thru/
.Brian Moriarty> Loud and clear.
> Speak of the devil.
.<Mat> Hello TOM. Get a nice tan on vacation, or is this Keith?
.Brian Moriarty> (What a weird question that was!)
ICDINC> This is TOM, yes nice tan but in the poor house now
.Charles Johnson> Hehe!
.<Mat> Any questions for Mr. Wishbringer himself?
.Brian Moriarty> (Choking.)
.Brian Moriarty> Back to the Pleistocene.
ICDINC> So how are sales in the Atari 8-bit market Brian?
> 8-bit sales are slow, but surprsingly steady.
> There's a core of a few thousand 8-bitters who ...
> seem to like our stuff.
ICDINC> Ours are doing well but I think we have more 8-bit products
> than Atari now!
.Brian Moriarty> How is Atari going to counter Mac II?
.Charles Johnson> The Mac II is a _nice_ machine. A bit pricey.
.Brian Moriarty> Only pricey when compared to "home" computers. Compared to ...
> minis and mainframes (whose performance it more closely approaches), ...
> it's the bargain of the century!
.<Mat> They are sending out review copies of the XEP80 NOW Tom...
> how's the MIO 80 Column coming?
.Charlie> Brian, Does Infocom use or have they ever looked into any
> type of text compression methods?
.Brian Moriarty> We've been using text compression since Day One.
.Charles Johnson> I know. <grin> I peeked with a disk editor once....
> hoping to find some clues! Oh well.
.<Mat> Do you still use a proprietary language for everything......
> then just compile once for each target machine?
.Brian Moriarty> Yes, we do use a proprietary language, ZIL (for Zork ...
> Implementation Language). But no, we do not compile once ...
> for each computer. We compile ONCE, for EVERY computer. The code ...
> is 100% machine independent. Only the interpreters are changed ...
> to protect the innocent.
ICDINC> MAybe you could briefly describe ZIL for us?
.<Mat> Ohhhhh. What Main Frame do you use? Vax, Data General, Cray XMP4?
.Brian Moriarty> It looks like Lisp, with lots of parens and brackets, and ...
> functions called with arguments and optionals, etc, etc.
> Our mainframe is a DECsystem 20.
.<Mat> Sounds like my Mac/65 source code - I have MACROitis.
.Brian Moriarty> (Wish we had a Cray. But doesn't everybody?)
.<Mat> Someone develops an interpreter for each machine then....
> in it's native tongue?
.Charlie> Or do you use cross assemblers?
.Brian Moriarty> Right. Each machine has a small (around 8K) interpreter,
> written ...
> in assembly (though lately in C). It never changes.
.<Mat> Ahh, C would make it a bit more portable, eh.
.Brian Moriarty> Each machine runs EXACTLY the same Z-code as every
> other machine.
.<Mat> So the entire game is more like a description language of sorts.
.Brian Moriarty> Yes. It's a virtual stack machine, similar in flavor to ...
> FORTH.
.<Mat> I was going to suggest that word, but I can't say it....
> much less think in RPN.
ICDINC> What are INFOCOMs views on copy protection for its programs?
.Brian Moriarty> We no longer have CP on any of our products.
> It doesn't work.
.Charles Johnson> Did you ever use CP at Infocom?
.Brian Moriarty> Not on Atari products. Our old Apple, IBM and Mac disks did.
ICDINC> And has it affected sales??
.<Mat> Your copy protection is unique documentation upon which....
> the game depends for solvability?
.Brian Moriarty> Never stopped anyone. Packaging works a lot better.
> Right, Mat. We make the package so attractive, you don't WANT to ...
> play the game without it.
.<Mat> How many _NEW_ title announcements can we expect at CES?
.Brian Moriarty> Defintely two major products, to ship immediately.
> Possibly up to three others (including my next title). Maybe more.
.Charles Johnson> Can you tell us anything about your next project, Brian?
.<Mat> Going to have another big bash, like last years BYOB?
> (Bring Your Own BRAIN)
.Brian Moriarty> It's another big fantasy. That's all I can tell you till CES.
> I'm not sure what our plans are. Much depends on Activision.
.Charlie> Were there ever any 'trap doors' left in any of the games by accident?
.Brian Moriarty> "Trap doors?"
.<Mat> Easy solutions one might stumble onto accidentally.....
> that were stuck in for convenience during development.
.Charlie> Type a secret word and have all the rooms labeled, etc.
> But someone somehow forgot about them?
ICDINC> A hackers dream!
.Brian Moriarty> Oh, you mean Secret Commands! (Chuckling.) No, we usually have to ...
> semi them out just to make the games fit!
> However, did you ever ASK THE BIRD WOMAN ABOUT TRINITY?
.<Mat> Have you ever considered a multiplayer game? Two different......
> people playing two different roles at the same time?
.Charlie> O.K., I'll bite .
.Charles Johnson> No, never tried that one!
.Charles Johnson> Wha' happens?
.Brian Moriarty> Yes, she knows, in a way ....
> There was once a multiplayer version ...
> of ZORK on the mainframe. Someday, maybe we'll do something with it.
.Charlie> He's going to leave us hanging!
.Brian Moriarty> I can't describe what happens, Charlie. Just try it.
.<Mat> How a BBS version? A BBS with simple email....
> but each caller is a different character.......
> with a different path........
> the BBS can be run by just about anyone......
> but the caller must have an INFOCOM character disk.....
> that handles custom communication with the BBS, etc.
.Brian Moriarty> Got it all figured out, eh? <grinning> Probably
> not enough of a ...
> market out there yet. Someday, who knows?
.<Mat> Make the BBS public domain. Sell the PLAYER disks......
> like crazy. Maybe have a dozen so different rolls one may.....
> choose from at purchase time.
ICDINC> So how much time do you guys spend playing games
> on the mainframe? (vs working)
> (hehe)
.Brian Moriarty> Most of the games we play are on micros. The current favorites ...
> are SHANGHAI on the Mac, and (get ready) SUPER BREAKOUT on the 800!
ICDINC> Wow!!
.<Mat> Have you tried RAMBUG II yet? Nice debugging utility for the 800.
.Brian Moriarty> No. I always used OMNIMON.
.<Mat> Try RAMBUG II sometime, it can grow on you.
.Charles Johnson> I have to ask - who was responsible for that fiendish....
> "untangling/unangling cream" business in LGoP? That....
> one drove me nuts!!!
.Brian Moriarty> The cream, like all of LGoP, was Steve Meretzky's.
ICDINC> Brian, what machines are your biggest sellers?
.<Mat> C64?
.Brian Moriarty> IBM, Apple // and C64. Together, about 75% of our business.
ICDINC> How do ST, AMIGA, 8-bit Atari compare?
> Also MAC?
.Brian Moriarty> Amiga is rather weak, perhaps because we have no
> pix (those dolts).
> Mac is getting stronger, because there are so many MACers now.
> Atari ST and 8-bit sales are roughly the same.
.<Mat> Aside from the games you've written personally, what INFOCOM.....
> game do you play most, like best?
ICDINC> So do you release on all machines at once?
.Brian Moriarty> ICD: Yes. All versions come out on the same day.
> Mat: My favorite is Enchanter. Zork II is also very good.
> I should admit, though, that I haven't played several of them.
.<Mat> Just out of curiosity......
> what computer/terminal program are you using now?
.Brian Moriarty> Right now, I'm on a Compaq Plus running Crosstalk.
ICDINC> So is being a sucessful author everything you dreamed back
> in ANALOG days?
.Brian Moriarty> It's a lot more work than I thought it'd be.
.<Mat> And not enough groupies?
ICDINC> And the fame and fortune???
.Brian Moriarty> Believe me, groupies are no picnic.
ICDINC> (hehe)
.Brian Moriarty> Fame? Ha! I've gone from Unknown to Obscure.
> Fortune? Well, they pay better than ANALOG ... but doesn't everyone?
ICDINC> Do all Infocom authors work at the main office or do some work at home?
.Brian Moriarty> We basically all work at the office, though
> there are signs of ...
> that beginning to change.
> We are thinking about porting our development system to ...
> one of the new high-powered micros, possibly a Mac II.
.<Mat> Yeah! I'd LOVE to get paid to work at home all the time!
ICDINC> I personally have a hard time working at home.
> To many distractions.
.<Mat> I don't, at 3AM when all the kids are sleeping - do my best....
> work then.
.Brian Moriarty> It's all a question of discipline.
> I think I'd get more work done at home, given the chance.
ICDINC> How many authors presently write for Infocom?
.Brian Moriarty> I wrote Crash Dive! at home. Remember, Charlie? Mike was very ...
> suspicious.
.Brian Moriarty> We have seven full-time authors now.
ICDINC> Does Activision handle marketing and sales then or is that Infocom?
.Brian Moriarty> We do packaging and marketing. AVision does most of sales.
.<Mat> Where do you come up with the bizzarre ideas for these programs..
> .. and how do you develop ideas? Flowcharting? (Ackus)
.Brian Moriarty> Every author has his/her own method of developing a story.
> We don't brainstorm as much as you might think.
ANDREESSEN> Is the Tandy CoCo going to be supported by Infocom anymore?
.Brian Moriarty> We still support the Coco.
> I know MOONMIST was released for Coco.
ICDINC> How did you become affiliated with Infocom?
ANDREESSEN> Are new games (Bureaucracy, Leather Goddess - Phobos, etc)
> gonna have CoCo versions?
.Brian Moriarty> I came to Infocom from ANALOG, as you may know.
> I think there's a CoCo LGoP. B'Cracy is too big, won't fit.
ICDINC> They just called ANALOG and asked if anyone was interested
> in being famous??
ANDREESSEN> I dunno if anyone already asked this, but what kind of
> new games are coming from Infocom?
.Brian Moriarty> No. Charlie used to give me printouts of the Atari mail on CIS. ...
> One day, there was this note from Dan Horn, who was head of their micro engineering dept.
> He was looking for an 8-bit hacker. Desperately. So I wrote him a note.
> You see, I'd just applied for a position as a game designer. Personnel
> turned me down. (Snicker.)
> So I snuck in through the Micro Group.
.Charlie> And Mike took away my CIS account afterwards.
.<Mat> "Desperately seeking hacker. Must like bits more than bytes."
.Brian Moriarty> I think Mike was not happy.
ICDINC> Does Infocom also do games? (Graphics etc.)  Sorry for my ignorance.
.Brian Moriarty> We did a graphics oriented game called Fooblitzky once.
.<Mat> I heard about it. How did it do?
.Brian Moriarty> We never pushed it very hard. We sold all the
> copies we printed, but we didn't print very many.
> Steve Panak made it sound like the Second Coming.
.Charles Johnson> I have a copy, and I really enjoyed it. A departure
> for Infocom.
.<Mat> You didn't think it lived up to the INFOCOM image? Or you......
> just didn't think it'd sell well?
.Brian Moriarty> Some people felt one. Some felt the other. Some thought both.
> It cost us a lot of $.
ICDINC> Sounds like one of those TS upper mgmt decisions.
.<Mat> How were the reviews for it in other magazines?
.Charlie> What other magazines?
.Brian Moriarty> Most of them were vague. Antic was distinctly unimpressed.
.<Mat> The ones for non-Atari computers. You  know, Games'R'Us....etc.
.Brian Moriarty> A+ (the Apple mag) kind of liked it. Most of the reviews ...
> just described the play of the game, and raved about the package.
.<Mat> There isn't a whole lot more you can write in a game review.
.Brian Moriarty> Oh, Antic occasionally gets rather opinionated.
> Ever see their review ...
> of Tom Hudson's Buried Bucks?
.Joe> Well, changing the subject, and probably re-asking this question...
> Is CORNERSTONE still a "live" product?
.Brian Moriarty> We still sell copies of the IBM version. There is, by the way, ...
> a very nice version for the ST floating around.
> It was shown at Winter CES at the Atari booth.
.Joe> I always thought that it was better than it was given credit
> but then again, 90% of the reviews you get are directly related
> to amount of advertising bought in the PC market
.Brian Moriarty> This is true. Marketing is impossibly expensive in
> the PC market.
.<Mat> Send a FREE copy to Jerry Pournelle! There's some free......
> advertising .... if it's good.
.Joe> hahaha
.Charles Johnson> I must have missed something. What's Cornerstone?
.Joe> "I'm writing this in the early 18th century, due to Byte's
> excessive lead time, your reading it now"
.Brian Moriarty> Very valuable advertising, too. People are clamoring for just ...
> a wee mention in Chaos Manor. It's read by more people than ...
> any other column in ANY computer magazine.
.<Mat> You sure? I know i've got at least 5 or 6 people reading....
> my Database delphi column now!
> And growing more every day!
.Brian Moriarty> Cornerstone, Charles, is Infocom's IBM PC database system.
> Only $99.95 at fine dealers everywhere!
.Charles Johnson> Ah! Now I recall reading about it. Is the ST version....
> going to be sold too?
.Brian Moriarty> It does exist. Whether or not we sell it depends on ...
> how we perceive the ST market. Right now, there doesn't seem to be ...
> enough potential to make it worth our while.
.Charles Johnson> That's a shame. I still haven't found a decent DB for my ST.
.Brian Moriarty> It beats the living s--- out of every other ST database,
 though!
.Joe> Shhhhhh Frank Cohen might hear
.Brian Moriarty> Who?
ICDINC>  Thanks for the interesting info Brian,, (pun intended) gotta go.
.<Mat> Brian, have you ever used Zoooooooooom RACKS?
.Charles Johnson> Author of RegentBase.
.Joe> I tried to convey humor - it didn't work
.jh> (hmmm...should I get a ST or IBM?)
.Charles Johnson> I laughed, Joe.    :-)
.Brian Moriarty> Whos is RegentBase author? No, haven't seen ZoomRacks.
.<Mat> Cray, get a cray!
.Charles Johnson> Frank Cohen is one of the authors of Regent Base, Brian.....
.Joe> jh - buy a Personal System/2 and be unique
> unique in the fact that you will be the only person outside of
> a fortune 500 company to have one
.Charles Johnson> a program that's supposed to be functionally equivalent to...
> RBASE 5000.  ("Supposed".)
.Brian Moriarty> ST Cornerstone screams, especially on a 1040.
.Charles Johnson> I want it!
> I'll pay!
.Brian Moriarty> But wait! There's more! ... Now how much would you pay?
> (Personal System/2. Blah.)
.Joe> Blah blah
> We still need a way to indicate sarchasm in ascii
.Charlie> Brian is into DEC Rainbows.
.Brian Moriarty> I wrote WISHBRINGER on a DEC Rainbow, in terminal
> mode. Love the keyboard.
> Now use a VT220, which has the same keyboard.
.<Mat> VT220 do graphics? How about the VT200, graphics terminal too?
.Joe> I'd still like to have a DEC Rainbow just for the keyboard
.Brian Moriarty> No pix on VT220. Well ... not exactly (being mysterious).
> No better keyboard, in my opinion. Most here use VT131s. Ugh.
.Joe> I wonder if the VaxMate 286 machine has a Rainbow
 keyboard (now getting way off the subject)
.Brian Moriarty> Yes, most of the DEC mini/micros have a VT220-style board.
.jh> Bye...and thanks for all the fish.
.Brian Moriarty> (We wish!)
.Charlie> So long.
.Joe> Quick, someone loan me $10K so I can buy a VaxMate then
.Brian Moriarty> Just get a VT220! About $1.5K.
.Joe> No wonder everyone is buying ST's to use as Vt220's
> $1500 for a terminal is way outta line - even with god's gift to keyboards
.Brian Moriarty> My opinion of the ST keyboard is better left unsaid here.
> They got the layout right, at least.
.Charles Johnson> I think you just said it all, Brian.
.Joe> type type/ mush mush
.Chris> Geez, been on since last august and this is the first conference
> i've been on
.Brian Moriarty> It's like squeezing an old banana.
.Chris> to put it mildly
.Charles Johnson> Everybody together - "I Hate the ST's Keyboard!"
.Joe> Never quote me on this, but it's still better than the
> Tandy 1000 keyboard I use all damn week
.Brian Moriarty> I understand the Megas are better. True?
.Chris> I like the ST keyboard, the keys are so bouncy!
> mega's are detached, bri
.Brian Moriarty> I want a computer, not a trampoline.
.Charles Johnson> Well, it's looking like maybe not! They couldn't get the low....
> price from the OEM on the improved keyboards.
.Chris> if anyone saw the new amiga 2000, their keyboard layout is
> next to the same as the ST's, even the letter print on each
> keypad is similar
.Brian Moriarty> (Joe: You're right about the 1000. Yech.)
> The A2000 keyboard is quite nice.
.Brian Moriarty> Too bad they crippled it with ridiculous IBM compatibility.
.Joe> The A2000 might be interesting if there was something to
 do with it other than look at "neat graphics demos"
.Brian Moriarty> The A2000 will be the box developers use to write
> games for the A500.
> Yes, Amigas have HARDWARE support for multitasking.
.Joe> THe A500 won't sell unless they match the ST's price.
> The buying public looks at price beyond all else
.Brian Moriarty> They just might, Joe. The A500 is really cheap toproduce.
.Joe> Well, if they do, I'll buy one and "run neat graphics demos on it"
.Brian Moriarty> Chris, is it 68020?
> With math co-pro?
.Charles Johnson> Do the new Amigas have hardware memory protection?  ....
> that's vital for a true multi-tasking OS.
.Chris> i believe so
.Brian Moriarty> No, the A500 has Kickstart in ROM, with 512K of real RAM.
.Joe> the new amiga's are nothing new above the a1000 except for
> the fact that the OS is ROMMED
> Amiga Rev 1.1 you might say
.Chris> and i think they have 1 meg of memory, compute! is making a big
> deal over it, they never put the ST on their cover
.Brian Moriarty> The big change is Cost Of Goods. Dramatically lower.
.Chris> i think they put the amiga on it twice already
.Brian Moriarty> Who advertises more?
.Joe> What do you expect, Compute! is basically a CBM magazine,
> has been for some time
.Brian Moriarty> The A2000 has 1 meg. A500 only 512, I think ...
> If it takes hold, A500 will be the ultimate game machine.
.Joe> The A500, according to AmigaWorld (I'll withhold comments
> on that publication) has 512K and an external expansion edge connector
.<Mat> We got multitasking, within the confines of an accessory!
.Charles Johnson> Well....we got kind of a "pseudo/imitation multitasking"...
> with accessories!
.Joe> Speaking of ST multi-tasking, I wonder what ever happened
> to OS9 LLevel II 68K for the ST?  Anyone hear anything?
.Brian Moriarty> But who wants MT on a home computer? Really?]
> Joe, OS-9 was pulled from distribution (poor sales). But ...
.<Mat> I could pull down a window and work on a spread sheet......
> while i'm waiting on the SLOW ST compilers.
> That's MT.
.Joe> The only multi-tasking I need is the ability to transfer
> files and play a game at the same time to keep from getting bored
.Chris> right, joe
.Brian Moriarty> Microware (the inventors) may resell it again later.
.<Mat> I don't know about any MT software for the ST other.....
> than what Steve Beckemeyer wrote, and that is NOT public domain!
.Joe> Hmmm - I don't know all that much about OS9, but all of the
> Coco hacks at work tell me how great it is all the time... blah blah
.Brian Moriarty> Mat, stop using compilers. Use FORTH!
.Joe> Stomp out FORTH in your lifetime
.Charles Johnson> Hey, there's an idea. How about a desk accessory Infocom game?
.Charles Johnson> FORTH hate I.
.Joe> Modula/2's my game, insanity reigns
.Brian Moriarty> (Sigh.) Go ahead. Type squiggly brackets to your
> heart's content.
> Modula is rather nice. But it's not interactive.
.<Mat> FORTH hate really dup dup dup I emit emit emit emit emit etc....
.Charles Johnson> Real men code in assembly!   ;-)
.Joe> "we got one of those FORTH weirdo's here, don't touch him,
> you might catch something"
.<Mat> REAL men code in Hexadecimal!
.Charles Johnson> Octal!!!
.<Mat> BINARY!
.Joe> no, real men code in OCTAL a
> EBCIDIC
.Charlie> Flip switches!
.Charles Johnson> Punch cards!
.<Mat> OK, we got any more serious conferencing left in us?
.Joe> probablty not Mat
.<Mat> while ( TODAY != FRIDAY); /* WAIT */
>  PARTY(YOUR, BUNS, OFF);
.Brian Moriarty> And you bought ... ?
.<Mat> Then someone else will Go Ahead.
.Charles Johnson> Have you played the new B'cracy game, Brian? How do _you_...
> like it?
.<Mat> Well, this conference is now 2 hours old. Brian is about....
> ready to go I think. Any final comments Brian?
.Brian Moriarty> No, I have not played it enough to comment intelligently.
> ... Except that I'm still waiting for someone to publish ...
> a game as perfect as Atari 800 STAR RAIDERS.
/s cfj,infocominc Don't encourage the little snip!
.Charles Johnson> Yeah, the ST Star Raiders doesn't hold a candle!
.<Mat> You don't like Star Raiders ST?
.Joe> Meaning, you wan't Star Raiders on the ST in 16K of code or less
.Charles Johnson> OK, Joe, talk to ya later!
.Joe> -exit stage left
.Joe> - signed off -
.Brian Moriarty> Thanks, Chris. A pleasure being among Atarians.
.Chris> huh?
BEEJAY> Hello.
.Charles Johnson> Hi, Beejay...we're just winding down here.
.Brian Moriarty> Well , gotta go, everyone. So long!
.Chris> okay dokay. goodnitey nite
.Charles Johnson> Thanks for stopping in, Brian!
.Brian Moriarty> Bye all, it's been fun etc.
.Brian Moriarty> - signed off -